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MUSIC
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APPLAUSE
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MUSIC
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MUSIC
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My name's David Ferrier and I'm a journalist from New Zealand.
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Five years ago, I started writing what I thought would be a very simple, quirky story.
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But here I am, half a decade later, still trying to make sense of it all.
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MUSIC
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I'm driving to an abandoned psychiatric hospital in the middle of nowhere,
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which is funny because I do feel like I'm losing my mind.
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What's he doing out there?
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MUSIC
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I'm just going to pack up where we were a lot further on.
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I'm not going to buy them.
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I don't even know who I'm here to meet.
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I just know that somewhere in these crumbling buildings lie the answers I need.
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At least that's what I hope.
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MUSIC
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So two people got out and walked in.
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MUSIC
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Are we seeing who was in that cup?
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No.
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MUSIC
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What the fuck are you up to?
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MUSIC
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I guess you could call the city I live in the Beverly Hills of New Zealand.
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And on one of its most expensive streets, it's this high-end antique store,
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Bashford Antiques.
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During the day, it's quiet, uneventful, blue skies and canoodling pigeons.
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But as the sun sets and the store closes,
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things get crazy outside.
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MUSIC
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You saw me go and get the cash.
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You saw me.
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Yes, you did.
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You are a liar.
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You saw me go and get the cash.
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Yes, to go and get the cash.
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You told me where the cash point was.
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The owner of the Antiques store is Gillian Bashford,
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and she's making a bold stand against anyone who dares park outside when it's shut.
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When I bought the building over 15 years ago, there was no parking issues around the area.
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How times have changed?
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People think they've got a sense of entitlement to park in somebody's private car park.
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To fix the problem, she's hired a man to watch her car park like a hawk.
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When people park there, he waits till they walk away, then swoops.
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Placing a clamp on their wheel or blocking them in with his van.
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What makes you think you have the right to park here?
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Does car park?
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When they come back, the aggro begins.
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You are a crook.
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You are an heir to the crook.
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Because it's private property, this is fully legal.
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So if people want to leave, they have to pay him.
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And I realise this car park is quite the money-maker for Bashford Antiques.
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I'll meet you trying to give you 400 bucks cash, which is what you are for.
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No, it is $760.
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Charging $760 for half an hour's parking is ludicrous to me.
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So I start writing about Gillian and her bonk is clamping.
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You can please take and you'll be proud too.
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No problem.
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I'm ready to park.
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I know.
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Pretty soon, she's on the primetime news.
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This week we heard that a full-scale war was breaking out on the streets of an Auckland suburb.
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Dinas told us they were being preyed on by a wheel clapper who was then demanding they pay to get their vehicles back.
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Hannah parked in front of Bashford's Antiques on Williamson Avenue.
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Something in this report gets my attention.
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I've seen Gillian and her clapper together a lot now.
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And yet here she is saying she doesn't know anything about him.
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I have nothing to do with Premier. They've put purely the people that do the clamping for me.
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I don't understand why she's lying about this. So I give her a call.
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Hello. Gillian speaking.
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Oh, hey Gillian. It's David Ferrier speaking.
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It's David Ferrier. I'm a journalist from the spin-off.
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David Ferrier.
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Yeah, hi.
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No, I'm perfect. Thank you. Bye.
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It's been over 300 claims.
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We're on these properties.
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So it ends up toward...
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Part of the reason why.
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Has their victims increased into the hundreds?
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Gillian takes things up a notch.
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Her legal representatives sense threats in all caps to people who are speaking out about it.
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They're signed by an MDA organ.
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I try and find him to interview him, but there's no lawyer with that name.
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He doesn't exist.
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The only organ I can find is this organ, who once made headlines claiming to be a blue-blooded prince.
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I stare at the prince, and I see the clamper staring back at me.
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The prince, the clamper, and the lawyer, I think they're all the same person.
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Michael Organ.
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This is exactly my kind of weird mess.
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I know there must be more to this car park terrorist.
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Something else is going on here? And I want to find out what?
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Hi, it's David Ferri speaking. I'm a journalist based in Auckland. How are you doing?
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I'm fine. I'm good.
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It's a bit of a random call out of the blue. I'm looking into the background of Michael Organ.
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Do me a favor. Now, you've asked me a question about Michael Organ, but I know I should do me a quick favor.
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And you can answer this very quickly for me. It's right off the bat. When were you born?
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I was born on Christmas Day, 82.
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Nice one. You are David Ferri. The reason why I asked you that is because this is something that Michael would do.
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So you'll forgive me if I had to check you there a little bit.
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This paranoid voice belongs to jazz, a man who lived with organ in the late 90s.
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Yeah. What was it? I just want to be talking about the day to day of living in that place.
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It was hell. Every single day with Michael Organ is like hell. It's like high velocity hell.
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He's the kind of guy that if you're talking to him for 10 minutes, that 10 minutes will turn it to 10 hours.
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And it's not a good 10 hours.
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I'd already heard of Michael before I moved into this flat.
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What did you heard? Nothing nice.
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It all was a bit sort of like urban legend that this man was a Satanist and part of the night's Templar, and he was dangerous, and he could put curses on you.
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And that he was part of a fraud ring and all sorts of things like that.
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There was just all these stories about him.
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But because of the stories and the speed that he's doing it, he kind of catches you into it and you kind of get taken along for the ride.
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It's like being in love. A lot of people go through it. You're in love and you don't realise just how bad the relationship is until you step away from it, because you're in it.
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But once you step away from it, you realise how crazy shit got.
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There's clearly more to Michael Organ than just being a vindictive clapper.
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When he was living with jazz in the 90s, Organ ran a sex shop called Taboo.
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When he stopped paying rent, the landlord changed the locks, evicting him.
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Organ wasn't happy and decided he'd get back at the landlord.
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This is the landlord, Renee Dunn.
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He's sitting on his yacht, the Martier.
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So, you know, revenge sets in.
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So, he's got Martier in his sights.
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And it was, you know, it was tied up to the pole mooring and one night Michael Organ went aboard the boat and tried to steal it.
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You know, I mean, you can't just steal the boat, right?
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But this is the gall of the guy. He tried to do it.
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And the only reason why it failed is because Jamie Locker threw him off.
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I was not expecting Jamie Locker to be a part of this.
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Jamie hit the headlines in 2007 when police accused him of being a terrorist.
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This is the man police alleged talked of training for guerrilla warfare and taking out white men with no manners.
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He's known to be an intimidating man, which is why I'm a little nervous to meet him.
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He lives three hours north, off the grid, moving from house to house.
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The fact he was somehow involved in this story had me curious.
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Jamie, how are you?
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Sorry? I will go down. That's all right.
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Nice to meet you, sir.
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I'm done.
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When I came to see me and said, Jamie, I want you to, you know, we found the boat. It's in West Haven. We want you to get it back.
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You know, when I had organised another yacht, friend's yacht, where we all were on that and we cut the motor about a kilometre away.
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It was a little bit bruised and early morning, so he couldn't even hear us coming and, of course, I did my old,
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Bruce Lee jump onto the boat and just went downstairs and there was Michael Orgain.
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He just couldn't believe me coming down the companionway.
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He had a phone in one hand and he started trying to call somebody, so I just knocked the phone out of his hand.
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And pretty well, just, you know, because I've been doing this all my life.
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Okay, that's what karate is all about. And so what you do in situations like that,
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when I have to manhandle another human being, and if they've got hair on their head, I'll come in and grab their head.
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Right.
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Of course, this is so strong that I actually can pull the skin up tight and the brain goes into a zombie mode.
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So I come in and just go, I'm on his head and I've got it.
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So I had him on my, you know, I had him on my grip and he's just gone on to an instant try.
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So I then have to manhandle him.
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Because he can't manhandle, he's in a whole body stopped.
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And I've got his hair so tight, and for good measure, I just did a nice heel kick on his phone and that broke,
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which was probably shouldn't have done that, but, you know, so I got all gain into the dinghy.
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We even provided a dinghy just in case he didn't have one, which I don't think he did.
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So we had our own dinghy and I put all gain into the dinghy and I looked him in the eyes and said,
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don't speak.
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And then we saw all the police cars going over the bump and he bumps down Westhaven.
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That's a bad idea to them.
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So, you know, I'd committed an offence.
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I got him out of the boat.
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I accidentally stood on the cell phone, I suppose, but, you know, besides that, I used non-excessive force to get him off that boat
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and I got him off that boat quickly.
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No marking around.
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Well, you know, Renee wanted me to do it. I don't think anybody else could have done it like I did it.
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You should have seen him. He was running up the APS screaming, you know, and it's underpants.
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Michael was sentenced to three years in prison for stealing the matier.
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This is the article that got me hooked on Michael, the one that also mentioned he was a prince.
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Well, the thing is, Michael Organ is constantly doing wildly strange things with his name.
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He often misspells his first name.
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But then he gets more elaborate, claiming to be a prince.
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Sometimes a count.
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I know about this because he's doing it all in court.
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A lot.
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He arrived for the big box, and it was very, very important.
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It was held out as if to say, I'm very, very important, be careful of this, you know.
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And at the appropriate time in the case, when he was trying to drive home how important he was,
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he opened up the box and presented a crown and said that it was given to him by royalty
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and he's dined with royalty.
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Did he pop the crown on his head in the courtroom or just hold it?
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I don't think he actually got to the point where he was allowed to because I think the judge almost instantly said put it away.
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You know, the ending of the case was the interesting that because she said to Michael,
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I'm going to ask you to leave first, and I'm going to walk you to the elevator,
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and I'm going to watch you go down.
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So I thought, oh, that's interesting.
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So she walked out and John and I were sitting there alone for a few minutes, and I thought,
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OK, I wonder why that was.
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And she came back into the room and said, I'm sorry about that.
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Michael and Michael have not recognized me, but I most certainly recognized him.
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And she advised that we not just walk out of there, but run.
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And she said, don't ever look back. Don't ever have anything to do with that man again.
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I wonder if I should listen to the judge's advice.
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The fact Michael's now into the legal system here speaks volumes.
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He's obviously a litigious nightmare.
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But not because he's a lawyer.
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He's not.
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I've checked his legal qualifications, and he doesn't have any.
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But that doesn't stop him acting like he's a lawyer.
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And as I look through other cases, Michael's been involved in,
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I can't help but think of his behaviour clamping cars.
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But the problem with Michael, if I don't get on with you,
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she won't let go.
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If he succeeds someone's giving you information,
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then if he gets any inkling of who it might be or what it might be,
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I'll tell you what, he'll go out to them.
then if he gets any inkling of who it might be or what it might be,
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I'll tell you what, he'll go out to them.
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I'll tell you there.
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Hello.
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What do you want to talk about tonight?
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Well, my name is Michael Organ.
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And I'm the chap who's been cited in the media in regards to the clamping
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and constantly, the journalist David Ferrier.
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He's calling Talkback Radio about his bonk, his clamping, and he's read my articles.
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With clamping, there are no real rules.
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And in your situation, you were basically allowed to do whatever you liked.
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And what I'm saying...
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No, no, no, no, Jeremy...
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On your property...
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No.
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Ferrier.
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And this is one of the things that we have considered.
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So, the very first record.
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So, the very first time...
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Hold on, hold on, hold on.
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The very first time you clamped...
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The very first time you clamped someone, not the 50th time or the 100th time,
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or the fourth time David Ferrier did an article on you.
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The very first time.
230
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,000
The final time.
231
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,000
The $760 for half an hour of illicit power parking.
232
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:30,000
Uncontrolled, exorbitant, and sometimes intimidating behaviour.
233
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,000
Best for an antique store record.
234
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,000
Thanks in part to Gillian's extreme stance on clamping,
235
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,000
Parliament is now debating whether the law should be changed.
236
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,000
I just simply can't get my head around that sort of practice and that sort of behaviour.
237
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,000
And it is time to bring it into it.
238
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,000
The question is that the motion be agreed to.
239
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:56,000
Those of that opinion will say, I, to the contrary, know the eyes have it.
240
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:06,000
No more clamping, and no more bashfits.
241
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:15,000
The clamping mania has scared a lot of people away, and Gillian shuts the shop down.
242
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,000
All that's left behind is the old sign.
243
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,000
I take it home as a memento to the madness.
244
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,000
I guess this is my final piece, eulogy.
245
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,000
But my mistake, bashfits isn't dead.
246
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,000
You're talking to me about allegation of the theft of business science from bashfit antics,
247
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,000
and that these are your rights here.
248
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,000
I need to read it.
249
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,000
So you have to write from my silent.
250
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,000
Do not have to make any statement.
251
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,000
Anything's the same will be recorded and may be given any.
252
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000
It looks like Gillian wants me charged with theft.
253
00:20:52,000 --> 00:21:00,000
This is fucking crazy because the sign was just trash for a store that no longer exists.
254
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,000
Then I get a court summons from Gillian.
255
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,000
She's taking legal action.
256
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:10,000
It's so ridiculous because the broken old things are just under my house.
257
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,000
I could have just given them back.
258
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:19,000
Reading her court filing, Gillian says we've met to talk about all this, but we've never met.
259
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:26,000
I tried calling her when all this started, but she just hung up.
260
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:34,000
I don't understand why Gillian is doing this, going to all these extremes.
261
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:43,000
And I wonder if it's really her, or if something else is going on.
262
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:50,000
When Michael stole that yacht, he had an accomplice, someone he had moved in with.
263
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:58,000
Someone he had made forged documents to make it look like Michael Organ owned the boat.
264
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:03,000
He was persistently gaslighting me.
265
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,000
And everything I did was wrong.
266
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:13,000
There was a sort of a, you know, a forever being.
267
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,000
I felt as if I was groomed to begin with.
268
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:21,000
Is he saying it was a really calculated decision by him to really get into your life and groom you in that way?
269
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,000
You couldn't think.
270
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,000
I couldn't.
271
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:32,000
And when you're under that stress in that situation, you can't make sensible decisions.
272
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,000
That's what was getting to me.
273
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,000
I couldn't be the master of my own destiny.
274
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,000
I mean, that's the worst space to be in.
275
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,000
It was really getting me down.
276
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,000
I had one or two people I could talk to over this.
277
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,000
And of course, Michael was trying to separate me from my friends.
278
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:59,000
Some of them were prohibited from visiting.
279
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:07,000
He begged me one day to just help him forge the signature on a contract.
280
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:13,000
I was in such a space then I would just do anything to keep him quiet.
281
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:19,000
I just said, oh, this will shut him up for half a day. It's worth it.
282
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:25,000
When Organ got arrested, Simon went down with him.
283
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:35,000
It was just my darkest time, all their other parts of my life that were dark, sort of watching the parents die or whatever.
284
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:41,000
But no, this was a dark year. It was a tough year.
285
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:50,000
I'm glad that your theft happened because that gave me an ounce.
286
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,000
It was a price I had to pay.
287
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:59,000
Yes, being arrested, sitting in a jail cell, doing that community service.
288
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:08,000
That's what I had to go through to get away from it, get away from him.
289
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,000
Our surprise, he was let out so soon.
290
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:16,000
He, I remember coming to a traffic, you know, to a pedestrian crossing.
291
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,000
And there he was across the street, sort of making this gesture.
292
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:25,000
And I was like, oh, I don't believe it.
293
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,000
It's clear to me that Michael Organ rarely affects people.
294
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,000
He can tunnel into their lives, draw them into his schemes.
295
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,000
And he refuses to let anything go.
296
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:49,000
Okay, so walking down the side of my house, which is where you get to the underside of our house.
297
00:24:49,000 --> 00:25:06,000
And up until two days ago, the better antique signs were right there, and they're gone.
298
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:14,000
Just in time for my court appearance, the signs have gone missing from under my house.
299
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:28,000
It's the six-hour drive to Longinui, a small town in the middle of nowhere.
300
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:35,000
This is where Gillian filed her legal papers, so it's where I have to go.
301
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:47,000
As I wait outside court, a figure appears.
302
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:57,000
It's the man I've been learning so much about, the clamper, the prince, the yacht thief, Michael Organ.
303
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,000
He's not the disheveled man I saw clamping cars.
304
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,000
He's now in a velvet suit and deadly serious.
305
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:10,000
Arguing the signs I took weren't rubbish but precious and valuable.
306
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,000
He talks for hours.
307
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,000
He's incredibly comfortable in the courtroom.
308
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:20,000
And despite not being a lawyer, he absolutely wipes the floor with me.
309
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:25,000
Because those signs vanished into thin air, I can't give them back.
310
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,000
And so I lose the case.
311
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:33,000
And I'm ordered to pay nearly $3,000 for these.
312
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:40,000
Thank you, Anna.
313
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,000
Thanks, bye.
314
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,000
It is, bye.
315
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,000
It's going to be hard to beat that.
316
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,200
Hi, Mike. Good morning.
317
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:51,000
Yeah, hi. My name is Michael Organ, and I'm a director of Fashion and Antiques.
318
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:56,000
So Michael's a director at Gillian's now non-existent antique store.
319
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,000
And he's back on talkback radio gloating that he beat me.
320
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,000
And he's just clamping the clamping of people's wheels.
321
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,000
Yeah.
322
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:15,000
And the regurgitation of the $700, which was ascribed to us by a day of barrier, it never happened.
323
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,000
We've actually filed a legal proceeding against barrier, which we won.
324
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,000
He hasn't reported on that.
325
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:29,000
Now in that case, barrier had made assertions about certain maps.
326
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:34,000
Now because this is before the courts, and it's...
327
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,000
No, no.
328
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,000
Well, can we just get away from...
329
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,200
Hey, Mike, can we just get away from David Ferry?
330
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,000
You want to talk about clamping in general?
331
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,000
Yes.
332
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,000
Yes, I'm going to say it's no longer before the courts.
333
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000
We won.
334
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:58,000
I stay in town for a few days to try and figure out what this unlikely pair is doing together.
335
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:05,000
When Gillian moved to the small town, she bought this beautiful old bank building.
336
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,000
But who's got the keys?
337
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,000
Michael Orgin.
338
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:16,000
Where he goes, she follows.
339
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:27,000
At this point, it's clear to me that the clamper she once denied knowing is deep.
340
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,000
Knowing is deeply involved in her life.
341
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,000
I need answers.
342
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,000
So I invite him to my hotel to talk.
343
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,000
For the last year, he's refused to speak to me.
344
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:05,000
That courtroom was the first time I'd met him, and all I got was animosity.
345
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,000
I figure there's no way he'll turn up.
346
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,000
But then...
347
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,000
I meet Prince Organsky.
348
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,000
As I head my hair collared the morning and the guy said, I'll do.
349
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,000
I'll do your beard, and I've never had a dumberful.
350
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,000
And he left all this residue, which is visible.
351
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,000
So, if you want to save me, I find you embarrassed.
352
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,000
Don't come in on my phone.
353
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,000
I'll take it in this tiny room and photo.
354
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,000
Oh, thinking of bloody feigned.
355
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,000
No, it's fine.
356
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,000
So what's going to happen? This is Danny. He works on sound.
357
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,000
Anyway, when this was Gillian, Danny, Gillian.
358
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,000
I still don't want to cut my hair.
359
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,000
It actually popped me off.
360
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,000
Because he did something, I don't want him to do.
361
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,000
That's charging us off.
362
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,000
Now, this is your chair, Gillian.
363
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,000
It was my site.
364
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,000
Already had a headache, and the smell of the chemicals you wanted to have.
365
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,150
If you wanted to have a face, I'd just do that.
366
00:30:02,150 --> 00:30:04,000
There's tons over here.
367
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,000
This is a radio mic.
368
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,000
I just want to take cut, because the camera is going to have Michael there.
369
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,000
How did you two meet?
370
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,000
How did you come into each other's lives?
371
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,000
Are you both married? What's your relationship?
372
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,000
That's private, David.
373
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,000
You don't have much of an investigate of journalists if you don't or it.
374
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,000
Is this a rhetorical question?
375
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,000
You'd know.
376
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,000
So I thought I'd ask you directly.
377
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,000
Is this not a well?
378
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,000
We're going to say that's private.
379
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,000
I thought it would be a straightforward yes or no.
380
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,000
So what I'd like to cover here is...
381
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,000
Well, there's one thing.
382
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,000
There's nothing more, some of someone is controlling the nearest,
383
00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:00,000
trying to control the nearest of when you're the person who should be doing it.
384
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,000
You have a particular reason to trust me.
385
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:07,000
But there are things that you may not realise fully the ramifications,
386
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:13,000
because I'm not telling you everything that I know and have evidence of.
387
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,000
I'm not telling you that, because you don't need to know it yet.
388
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,000
David, do you know this?
389
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,000
This was in the front of a tribunal or court of law,
390
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:32,000
or just a debate and so much that people had to make and assessment on point of fact.
391
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:38,000
There's not one thing that you've asserted, not one thing that would stand up.
392
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
And I'm not just talking about you couldn't prove it.
393
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:46,000
I could actually prove, beyond all reasonable doubt, that that assertion was false.
394
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,000
Because there's a difference between you not being able to prove something as true
395
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,000
and me being able to prove that it's false.
396
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:59,000
Why do you think I've got everything wrong?
397
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:04,000
No, you didn't get anything wrong, David.
398
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,000
You knew right from the start what you were doing.
399
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,000
You don't know all the facts, but you knew what you were doing.
400
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,000
But what does that make you think of me?
401
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:21,000
I just socketed it objectively, and Gillian's laugh.
402
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:26,000
Who says?
403
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:32,000
I've described you as a reptile for people.
404
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,000
It's a reptile, is that fair?
405
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:43,000
But it's such a shame because you probably would have been quite an interesting person
406
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:48,000
to know if you were such a cunt.
407
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:53,000
Your life's quite carried, actually, and it's quite extraordinary.
408
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:58,000
It must be quite extraordinary having Michael around.
409
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Well, he is a genius.
410
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,000
Yeah.
411
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,000
I'm not joking.
412
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,000
Does he grow on you over time?
413
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,000
Sorry?
414
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,000
Does he grow on you over time?
415
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,000
Oh!
416
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:21,000
He's an absolute genius, and to be highly respected in every way, he has an extraordinary talent.
417
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,000
I'm just telling David that you're a genius, that's all.
418
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,000
Oh, no, that's just don't get into that stuff, Gillian.
419
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,000
What's your life been like since Michael's come into your life?
420
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:43,000
Michael has enriched my life immensely.
421
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:48,000
Oh, that sounds lovely.
422
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:56,000
Well, he's a very caring person, he is very, very kind to animals, and he's very kind to people.
423
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Anyway, well, look, you've got to be taking off with your microphone.
424
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:11,000
Well, it's quite interesting because I mean, David's 37, I'm 67.
425
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,000
So it's a 30-year age care.
426
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,000
Yeah, there is.
427
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,000
I mean, that's quite a big age gap, really, isn't it?
428
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,000
Do you have any life advice for me?
429
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,000
I've got a bit to go as to you.
430
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,000
What would be your main thing?
431
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,000
What would be your takeaway for me as a sprightly 37-year-old?
432
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,000
Well, I think you already know.
433
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,000
Willows never give up.
434
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:39,000
And happiness is a place to come from, not to get to.
435
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,000
No, Gillian.
436
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,000
Well, thanks for meeting with me.
437
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:48,000
I know you mind it a little, you know, it's all very well-being jocular, but this is actually
438
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:57,000
the man who's helped fuel the fires of, in some cases, hatred.
439
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,000
You know, and you must take responsibility.
440
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,000
I'm not being necessarily duped to fault with anything.
441
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,500
But anyway, it's an eye opener for you in a few days.
442
00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:07,000
It is.
443
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,000
Okay.
444
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:13,000
And I'll be safe out there.
445
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,000
Fuck it out.
446
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,000
Oh, shit.
447
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,000
What happened?
448
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,000
I don't know.
449
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,000
He's such an odd...
450
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,500
He's likable when he wants to be like, he's funny.
451
00:35:33,500 --> 00:35:35,000
He's like a real funny fucker.
452
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,000
And Gillian's quite funny as well.
453
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,500
It's just a very different situation towards what you expect, but I don't know what I expected
454
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:44,000
with him, really.
455
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,000
I don't know.
456
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,000
I don't know what has happened.
457
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,000
This whole situation just doesn't make sense to me.
458
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,000
The ex-con clamber has embedded himself in Gillian's life.
459
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:05,000
And while neither of them wants to clarify anything, they seem perfectly happy.
460
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,000
Maybe I'm the problem, blowing all things out of proportion.
461
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,000
Annoyed, I just paid this man nearly $3,000.
462
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,000
People might talk but they're frightened.
463
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:22,000
I think the thing is, you can't use my name because he's taken part of terrible things.
464
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,000
He's a very dangerous man.
465
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,000
Over the next few months, I talk to over 30 of Gillian's friends.
466
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,000
And they're all terrified of Michael.
467
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:38,000
He can be a treating individual and I think you'll probably find some people a bit reluctant
468
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,000
to say much because I think he has been a bit scary to a few people.
469
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,000
I just always had your name to call.
470
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,000
OK, no, I'm sorry.
471
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,000
Don't quote me on anything.
472
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:55,000
New Zealand is a small place and they think if they talk to me, he'll come after them.
473
00:36:55,000 --> 00:37:00,000
Only one person agrees to go on the record, Gillian's son.
474
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,000
He's just in your ear.
475
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,500
He's like the little devil on his shoulder.
476
00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:06,000
He's just churns all out.
477
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,000
He managed to just drive a wedge between all the close friends, slowly tipping away.
478
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:16,000
More or less just scared them to a point where they didn't want to come in the door.
479
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,000
When Michael Orgen got out of prison, he filed for bankruptcy.
480
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,000
It was October of 2007.
481
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:31,000
Do you remember when Michael did turn up on the scene?
482
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,000
It was October 2007.
483
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,000
I remember it quite vividly.
484
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:44,000
I walked into the shop and he was this character sitting there, eating lunch with Mum.
485
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,000
And I felt this, as you do, I just sort of almost walked into it.
486
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,000
An aura.
487
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,000
And she just popped it off.
488
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,000
He's harmless.
489
00:37:53,000 --> 00:38:00,000
He's just coming in for lunch every day of the week and it's quite clever and he's really good at antiques
490
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,000
and he knows his stuff and I'm really enjoying the conversation with them.
491
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:12,000
It was sort of really the initial meeting and I just felt straight away this aura that was totally really creepy and evil.
492
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,000
I wonder why no one tried to get rid of Michael.
493
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,000
But here's the thing. They did.
494
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:25,000
I've done it twice. Twice I've actually formally trespassed them, packed all his belongings into boxes
495
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,000
and delivered it to wherever he was residing at the time.
496
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,200
And so where did he go and live in that time?
497
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,700
And I believe that's probably thinking about it now is probably around the time of the winter.
498
00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:40,000
Those guys, instead of being beaten and abused and poor me, where was me, help?
499
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:48,000
We've obviously got into a conversation about homophobia or whatever it was.
500
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:53,000
And I had relayed the story of my growing up in a homophobic family.
501
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:59,000
And then a little while later, his story matched mine.
502
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,000
But it was aimed at Jillian Bashford.
503
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:11,000
I get treated like every day. I get homophobic comments and she beats me and she hits me.
504
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:20,000
The story resonated with me so much that I thought, oh, if there's any truth to that whatsoever, then I've got to help out.
505
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:27,000
And a couple of days after he'd moved on, I thought, oh my God, this is trouble.
506
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:32,000
It was a very weird, out-of-body experience.
507
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,000
I couldn't make huge tales of it. It was frightening.
508
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,000
He had this sort of control and hold over you.
509
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:46,000
And you found yourself doing all these things and putting up with various things.
510
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:51,000
But yeah, I didn't know how to handle it.
511
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:56,000
I didn't know how to get rid of them. It was like this pussy thing on you that won't go away.
512
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,000
A fairly desperate kind of situation that you're stuck in.
513
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,000
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was pretty suicidal at the time anyway.
514
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:15,000
And that just sort of was pulling me over the edge because I just thought, this is what crazy world have I landed in here.
515
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:22,000
I mean, there were a few attempts that I shouldn't have survived.
516
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,000
And I wondered why when I did survive it, I was very angry about that.
517
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:32,000
I thought, no, I can't keep waking up unless we're old. I don't want to be a part of this.
518
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:39,000
So you've been a pretty terrible way around him and you just have no nothing, not how are you going?
519
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:44,000
No, never got a hello, how are you? Can I make your cup of tea? Are you okay?
520
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,000
And then I was just the man's servant.
521
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:52,900
Well, I mean, when he was obvious, when you were traumatized by that, I mean, you were almost, you were the one who was being dead.
522
00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:55,000
Where was he? What was he doing?
523
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,000
Well, telling us stories, I don't know.
524
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,000
Yeah, but he's in the house with you.
525
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,000
Yeah, yeah.
526
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:12,000
Just ordering me around, getting me out of bed.
527
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:18,000
He had to be driving down Poncepe Road, and there was the van coming towards me, and I thought, this must be mum.
528
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,000
Sure enough, it was two weeks later, and there he was.
529
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,000
And the van wangled his way back in.
530
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:32,000
I think once organ latches on, he doesn't let go.
531
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,000
It's why he thrived clamping cars.
532
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,000
It was never about the money.
533
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:43,000
It was about physically trapping people so he could torment them for hours.
534
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,000
I don't believe Gillian ever wanted her signs back.
535
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:50,000
I believe it was Michael who wanted me and caught.
536
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,000
And thanks to that case, he's got my number.
537
00:41:54,000 --> 00:42:02,000
One of your colleagues turned up and provided Gillian and I with a key to your property.
538
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,000
Sorry?
539
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,000
Whoa, who, I'm curious who.
540
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,000
I was going to tell you that at this stage.
541
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,200
I was just saying you've got a key to my house.
542
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:12,000
It's a male.
543
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:17,000
Yeah, it gave me and Gillian a key to your property, which we still have.
544
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,000
How come?
545
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:25,000
Because maybe it's a little bit like me, David, as you can't trust all the people around you.
546
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:32,000
The people who you think, that you allow into your circle, a trustworthy enough for you to confide on,
547
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:37,000
and yet they turn up to me who has never met before and give me a key to your home.
548
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,000
That does seem quite weird.
549
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,000
I mean, I'd prefer you didn't have a key to my house.
550
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,000
Well, you don't need to worry.
551
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,000
I'm telling you because I've got nothing to hide.
552
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,000
So, yeah.
553
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,000
Well, it's right.
554
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,000
I don't know what the point of any of it is.
555
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,000
Like, if he has a key for my house, it's like...
556
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,000
It doesn't give you a house that's very bizarre.
557
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,000
Like, the story is so light, it's so...
558
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:08,000
But what he's done is now made me think, Holy shit, who do I know has turned on me?
559
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:15,000
And if it is my key, then he's either fucking stolen it somehow, which makes me sound crazy.
560
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:20,000
Like, if I told anyone this, if that key opens my house, if I explain the situation to anyone,
561
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,200
it makes me sound like I've lost the plot, because it makes no sense.
562
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:28,000
Or, I spend the rest of my life now looking at every friend and every crew member going,
563
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,000
who gave Michael Logan my key.
564
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:35,000
Well, don't actually look happy, because we should be quite stern in front of Mr Fairer,
565
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:40,000
and so drawing how terrible he's been towards us.
566
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,000
Oh, are you going to film him?
567
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,000
I've got a hope and sort of...
568
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,000
Okay.
569
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:50,000
So, explain to me what is going on now, because this is an odd scene.
570
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,000
As we discussed earlier, no doubt, you record old.
571
00:43:54,000 --> 00:44:02,000
This was a key that was governed to Jillian and I about three months after we vacated Ponsonby.
572
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,000
It's super weird, I'll admit that.
573
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,000
Will you trigger that scene?
574
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:11,000
And you've triggered it in our life, because this man came into our life, because of you,
575
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,000
personally, and because of what should publish.
576
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,600
Why did you tell me about this?
577
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:23,000
Because it tied him with some of the things that you were saying in our conversation,
578
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:31,000
an hour or so ago, that sometimes people, when you know them, or they get close to you,
579
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:36,000
or in your circle, throughout the people you know, may actually be...
580
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:41,000
I don't use the term walls and sheets, but that's what they can actually be.
581
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,000
You know, they can even sit there, they can eat your food, they can sit at a table,
582
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,000
and you share your wine, they can smile when they greet you, they can...
583
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,000
All those things...
584
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,000
These people are amongst us.
585
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,000
There is that side to some people.
586
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,000
Just don't know why anyone would want you in the house,
587
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,800
or to give you the opportunity to come into my house.
588
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,000
It's just a weird thing.
589
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:04,000
Well, I think I know.
590
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,000
Super weird.
591
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:06,000
Why?
592
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,000
What?
593
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,000
I don't want to document tree that I do. I mean, and the thing is,
594
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,000
you haven't played ball, and you've been printing bloody twaddle for years.
595
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,000
Okay.
596
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,000
Well, I thanks for giving Mikey back to me, and I appreciate that.
597
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,000
Yeah.
598
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,000
Thank you.
599
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,000
And are you okay, Gillian?
600
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,000
I'm doing well.
601
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,000
Of course.
602
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,000
I'm doing well.
603
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,000
Yeah.
604
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:36,000
Knowing what I know about organ, I worry about Gillian.
605
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,000
And now I'm worried that Mikey Logan somehow has a key to my house.
606
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,000
I don't know.
607
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,000
It looks like you're okay.
608
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,000
Yeah, it does.
609
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,000
He does look a lot like Mikey.
610
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,000
I think he does have the key to my house.
611
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,000
I just don't know how it fits in with the story at all.
612
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,000
What the fuck is going on?
613
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:04,000
Back at my house, away from Michael Organ, I try the key.
614
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,000
Fuck.
615
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:12,000
Michael knows I'm making a film about him, and I think he wants to be a part of it.
616
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:18,000
I wasn't expecting to be in this position, but I figured that if I spend enough time
617
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:27,000
with him, he'll show some cracks.
618
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:33,000
So me and Michael, well, we start to hang out.
619
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:38,000
Don't film inside, guys.
620
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,000
We're just kidding you, we're not...
621
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,000
Well, what?
622
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:49,000
You don't want to quit your actual place, so he...
623
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,000
I will call you.
624
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:56,000
Okay, well, despite inviting me and my crew in, he's hot and cold about us filming.
625
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,000
He seems to enjoy the power he has over me.
626
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,000
You see, he's filming and...
627
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,000
Yeah, but we're bringing it down.
628
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,000
I am out of interest.
629
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,000
I don't want to control your editing of it, but I'd love to see what...
630
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,000
Because you can play it back on the screen.
631
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,400
Just show me a few weeks here.
632
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:11,000
I'm curious.
633
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,000
He's being filmed, but he also loves it.
634
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,000
To the key.
635
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:20,000
I'm not going to tell you at this stage about the key.
636
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,350
Will you tell me at some point?
637
00:47:21,350 --> 00:47:23,000
Because I think that's like a bit of a...
638
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,000
I think that's like a bit of a...
639
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:34,000
Because no, it's not a game because the person who provided that key would expect confidentiality.
640
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:39,000
It wasn't promised that they'd expect it, and they're not the kinds of people you want to cross.
641
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:43,000
He refuses to expand on why he's got my key.
642
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,000
Or say anything, really.
643
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,000
He avoids naming anyone.
644
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:48,000
Or being specific.
645
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,000
Are you a monarchist, David?
646
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,000
I'm not particularly known, to be honest.
647
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,000
Are you a rival?
648
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,000
I'm a leaf tender.
649
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,000
I'm a fended.
650
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,000
Damn.
651
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,000
Okay.
652
00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:59,200
Yeah, we'll do this one here.
653
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,000
Well, you can't escape, you see.
654
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,000
Thank you.
655
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:03,000
Thank you, Michael.
656
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,000
No boys in the news.
657
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,000
Just... Oh, don't imply such things. I'm not into that.
658
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,000
Cheers.
659
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,000
Without being snobby, I'm proud of my ancestry.
660
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:25,000
These crown charters and much my ancestors are referred to as nobles.
661
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,000
We're talking about from the earliest days of the Norman Conquest.
662
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:36,000
And then things like the sheriff's of London.
663
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:41,000
Keeper of the seas.
664
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,000
In the medieval period.
665
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:49,000
And I'm actually proud of that.
666
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,000
And there's more stuff besides.
667
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,000
It's really hard just listening and nodding to Michael.
668
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:01,000
Taking in his insufferable topics like his disproven noble lineage.
669
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:07,000
For my own sanity, I try and steer the conversation towards things I actually want to know about.
670
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,000
I've never taken anyone to court myself.
671
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,000
You've taken, I think, more people to court than I have.
672
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,000
And I think you're quite good.
673
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:19,000
From what I can tell, I was looking through cases that you're quite formidable and quite good at it.
674
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,000
Is that a vehicle?
675
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:30,000
I'll only take, I only want to get involved in legal action as a last or close to last resort.
676
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:37,000
Because you can be represent yourself for your case as best as possible.
677
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:45,000
But you then, it's the vagaries of whoever's hearing the case.
678
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:55,000
It's amazing how much things come into play that really shouldn't.
679
00:49:55,000 --> 00:50:00,000
No one knows this more than the people who end up in court with him.
680
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,000
They all talk about the wild story's organ spins.
681
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:11,000
His defense to even the simplest of allegations taking on fantastical twists and turns.
682
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:18,000
He knows his shit, including how to filibuster a pretty direct.
683
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,000
You stole that stuff from me, can I have it back?
684
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:27,000
And turning that into an international espionage, like deep plot.
685
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:37,000
He went into this big long parade about how the Russians and Norwegians were fighting over the rights to drilling in the North Sea.
686
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:49,000
And that, due to my family context and studies, I was obviously spying on behalf of, I don't know, one of these two great whale giants.
687
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,000
So that kind of took up most of the hearings, to be honest.
688
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:58,000
And he was pontificating, like he was in the fucking Supreme Court.
689
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:02,000
And he just wasted the court's time, basically.
690
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:07,000
We can laugh at it now, but in the moment, he's dared to intimidate you.
691
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:13,000
My friend who went to court with me, he actually left half way through.
692
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,000
He asked, can I go? I'm scared of this guy.
693
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:22,000
And I was like, yeah, totally, I understand. He's scaring the shit out of me too.
694
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:29,000
If you're in that position, you can't be cowardly. You can't falter.
695
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:34,000
And you've got to be on your toes as best as possible.
696
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,000
I mean, especially if people are lying through their teeth.
697
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:43,000
You'd be a good lawyer in another life, because you're good at this stuff.
698
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:47,000
Like you were good in that tribunal. I didn't, you know, you were...
699
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:54,000
If I'd represented myself in the OK, so I would never have been convicted, I wouldn't have got power space won.
700
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,000
Yeah.
701
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,000
So if you don't have your time again, you'd represent yourself. Absolutely.
702
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,000
Yeah.
703
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,000
I'm reminded of those emails coming from Gillian's account years ago,
704
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:11,000
the one signed off from a supposed lawyer, M.D.A. Organ, the man sitting in front of me now.
705
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,000
But according to him, he never wrote those legal threats.
706
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:21,000
You ran with that. I know who did it. Gillian knows who did it.
707
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:25,000
It wasn't me. It wasn't who. It wasn't done where they are consented.
708
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:29,000
You may have an inkling who it is, but that...
709
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:30,000
No, I don't know.
710
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,000
...I'll disclose later.
711
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,000
I'm just frustrated with him.
712
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:39,000
Frustrated with this process, frustrated with him not giving him a thing.
713
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:43,000
It's just a pointless exercise in talking to him. Like he can't crack him.
714
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,000
He sort of dodges around everything.
715
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:51,000
Just a lot of time in assuming I could out him in some way or show what he's like,
716
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:56,000
but he's better than me.
717
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,000
One thing he keeps coming back to is me.
718
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,000
Me and the articles I wrote about clamping when this whole thing started.
719
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,000
The more you reported it, the more people were parking there.
720
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:13,000
And they all, every one of them made reference to your articles.
721
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,000
Every single one.
722
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:20,000
Whenever he calls me about this, it's at least an hour on the phone.
723
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,000
There was something about those articles in the way.
724
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,000
We threw social media that it became sporting for people.
725
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,000
It got very, very strange.
726
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,000
But that's the way it happened.
727
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,000
Most people would think, oh God, I'm not going to pass it.
728
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,000
But it was literally, literally.
729
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:42,000
And I really wish we had more...
730
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:46,000
Yeah, not me.
731
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:50,000
Do you think we had to go through walking that more?
732
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:54,000
Do you see what he takes for?
733
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,000
In the last pit, as time went through with them.
734
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,000
I'll meet him soon.
735
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,000
We used to leave a lot of people.
736
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,000
It was weird conversation.
737
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,000
And then the next time I see him, I get this.
738
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,000
Let's walk out.
739
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,000
Oh, shit.
740
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,000
God.
741
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,000
How dare you?
742
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,000
You're an absolute maniac.
743
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,000
Michael.
744
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,000
You're an absolute maniac.
745
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,000
It's destabilizing.
746
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,000
As I don't know what version of Michael I'm going to get.
747
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,000
Three of us were in our pajamas.
748
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,000
And we're arguing over this receipt.
749
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,000
And he followed me down to my bedroom.
750
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,000
And he challenged me in the head six times.
751
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,000
So, yeah.
752
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:48,000
I ended up leaving as most flatmates with a police phone call.
753
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,000
So, in my case, he apparently went straight down to the bathroom.
754
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,000
And there was not a mark on him.
755
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,200
One of the flatmates even told the police that he came out of the bathroom
756
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,000
and suddenly had scratches on his face.
757
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,000
He'd actually gone to the bathroom and scratched his own face
758
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,000
to say to the police that I had assaulted him.
759
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:08,000
But at that time, I had blatantly chewed nails from the anxiety
760
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:09,000
living with him.
761
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,000
And I said, it's not freaking possible.
762
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,500
And you're moving house at three o'clock in the morning.
763
00:55:14,500 --> 00:55:16,800
Get everything out on your trailer and everything.
764
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,400
The next old neighbor who's a registered teacher comes out
765
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,300
and who dressed in gowns says, Jesus Christ,
766
00:55:21,300 --> 00:55:23,000
when are they going to put him away?
767
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,000
And I know.
768
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:31,000
Michael's clearly capable of physical violence.
769
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,000
And yet he simply denies it all.
770
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:39,000
There is not one piece of footage substantiating any allegations
771
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:43,000
of threats or a threatening behavior from me.
772
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,000
There is no...
773
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:53,000
I've seen you driving a van and trapping young females in their car park.
774
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,000
It's extremely threatening.
775
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:56,000
No, it's not.
776
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,000
The vehicle's had a wheeled vampire.
777
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,000
Yeah, you've been extremely threatening to people
778
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,000
and I've seen the video and I've heard the stories
779
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,000
and I'm going to believe 20 people that talk to me
780
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:11,000
about their interactions they had over what you're telling me.
781
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,000
I don't know why I would believe you were to them.
782
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:18,000
You have not seen any footage of me threatening anyone
783
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,000
because it never happened.
784
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,000
So that's how I know you are lying.
785
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,000
Because it never happened.
786
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,000
It's a fact that they cannot be for the job.
787
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,000
I'm talking about your mannerisms and you trapping people
788
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,000
in with your van.
789
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:39,000
David, if you want to get some copy which you're getting now,
790
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:43,000
be grateful for it and listen to what I'm telling you because it's fact.
791
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:48,000
Whatever the current version of reality is spilling out of his mouth,
792
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:53,000
that is the current reality that he lives in and he expects us to all accept.
793
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:57,000
And pushing back against that reality doesn't really do that much
794
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,000
because it's like you're not even there.
795
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,000
It's fact.
796
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:08,000
Yeah, I feel wound up by him every dose I have of him,
797
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,000
which is about, say, three hours at a time.
798
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,000
Living with him, like Simon has, and like Paul did,
799
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:20,000
and like Gillian has for a very long time, I couldn't even imagine that.
800
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:24,000
It's not too long a day now.
801
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,000
Do you know where everything is?
802
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:27,000
Yeah.
803
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,000
We've sort of photographed memories that have helped.
804
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,000
No, I don't have a photograph of me, Marie.
805
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,000
I've just got a good memory.
806
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:41,000
People with photographs that memories tend to be quite thick.
807
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,000
Oh, really?
808
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:47,000
One of those people I had really addicted to
809
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,000
because he had said and four of them,
810
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,000
that this is verbatim Jesus Christ,
811
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,000
was a sex pest with twelve boyfriends.
812
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:57,400
Do you know who I'm talking about?
813
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:58,000
No, I don't know.
814
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,000
If he'd said Muhammad...
815
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:05,000
Yeah, I would actually prefer if you didn't actually make that.
816
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,000
Yeah, I just tell you that.
817
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,000
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, just...
818
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:14,000
Just so you don't deserve that, because I'm just going to be there as a vice.
819
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:15,400
You just don't want to go there.
820
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,000
Oh, goodness.
821
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,000
So I don't know, I'm just saying to you, don't, for your own personal safety,
822
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:25,000
as you're recording this, you make sure that that's exempt because I don't want that kind of thing being said
823
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:29,000
because it'll take the wrong person and you'll end up...
824
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:35,000
You just don't want to go there, okay, because there are people out there who could manipulate that comment
825
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,000
that you just made.
826
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:41,000
Just trust me, don't even make any reference to it.
827
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:45,000
You're not even meant to say the name without a certain preamble.
828
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:49,000
OK, which you didn't do, and you'll get some opportunity to come and keep.
829
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:50,000
No, no, no, no, no.
830
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:54,000
Don't. In the context of what we're talking about, please.
831
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,000
You know, that you just don't want to go there.
832
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:04,000
Because, yeah, he's impossible. Like, he's absolutely impossible.
833
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:17,000
And he'll keep being fine. Like, he'll keep drifting through life doing this,
834
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,000
and it kind of works for him.
835
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,000
He's got more money than I have.
836
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,000
He's done pretty well.
837
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:29,000
So, yeah, that'll do for the day.
838
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,000
So, it's 12.20 a.m.
839
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:39,000
And I'm lying awake thinking about Michael Organ.
840
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,000
Fucking Michael Organ.
841
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:48,000
There's a gap in my blinds, and I keep thinking he's going to be, um...
842
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,000
Like, when I open my eyes, I'll see him staring back at me here again.
843
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,000
I know Michael had my key,
844
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:01,000
and I know somebody crept around to take those signs from the back of my house.
845
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,000
I know he's capable of stuff like this,
846
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:09,000
as I find more and more cases of people Michael's gone after.
847
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,000
This is so much.
848
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,300
It gives me a headache just thinking about the number of things to chase.
849
01:00:16,300 --> 01:00:20,000
So, everyone you talk to mentions about five other people's names,
850
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,000
and says,
851
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,000
you have to talk to them.
852
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,000
And it's like,
853
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,000
just like, get anxiety just thinking about it.
854
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,000
Hey, Michael, I'm good.
855
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,000
How are you doing?
856
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,000
Spending time with Michael as a paradox.
857
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:03,000
On one hand, it's intriguing and fascinating.
858
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:07,000
But at the same time, his stories are so complex and impenetrable,
859
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,000
I feel like I'm getting a lobotomy.
860
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,000
Everyone I've met talks about this side to him.
861
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:21,000
He wears you down by talking for hours on end about absolutely nothing.
862
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,000
Absolutely nothing.
863
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:36,000
You pay a soul tax every minute you spend with Michael Organ.
864
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:40,000
And when those minutes turn into days and weeks, months and years,
865
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,000
well, that soul tax adds up.
866
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:47,000
As a filmmaker, I'm used to finding amazing subjects,
867
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,000
but this is the opposite.
868
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:53,000
Michael Organ is a black hole, and I'll fall in and.
869
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:57,000
Because I, like, why, he's, he's...
870
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,000
He's what?
871
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,000
Well, I just, I don't know what to do with him.
872
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,000
He's, like, a void.
873
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:13,000
Like, he...
874
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,000
And I don't know how to express this.
875
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,000
Like, I don't know how to, like, I don't know.
876
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,800
I don't quite understand why he winds me up so much.
877
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,000
Like, I can spend time with, like, a lot of dimwits
878
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,000
and, like, a lot of people that are boring,
879
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:26,000
but it's like, I can't be in the room with him.
880
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:31,000
I'm trapped.
881
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,000
It's a weird situation for me, because I'm trapped with him.
882
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,000
Like, if I was in a friendship with him or something,
883
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:40,200
or he was a flatmate, like, these other people that encountered him,
884
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:42,000
I just leave and get on with my life,
885
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,000
but I'm literally trapped with him.
886
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,000
Because I have to...
887
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,000
Because I have to make a film, right?
888
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,000
So there's no out.
889
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:58,000
Except to spend more time with them until something magically happens.
890
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,000
Yeah.
891
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:11,000
Well, it's... I feel stupid being so round up about it.
892
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:15,000
But it's like...
893
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,000
It's what, um...
894
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,000
It's like a few people have talked to me about this.
895
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,300
They're like, you think it's going to be interesting,
896
01:03:23,300 --> 01:03:26,000
and it's just, like, so boring that drives you insane.
897
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,000
And it's like, I've kind of fucked up in...
898
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:33,000
Like, I feel like I fucked up in, like, pitching the film in the first place,
899
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,000
because it's so...
900
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,000
Like, it's so obvious there's nothing there.
901
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,000
It's like, he's a fuckwit who bores people to death
902
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,000
until they, like, jump off a building.
903
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,000
But now I'm in his world.
904
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,000
He just keeps calling me.
905
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,000
And he's back to the yacht case,
906
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,000
the one big court case he's lost,
907
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,000
his downfall.
908
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:12,000
Who was your lawyer in that case again?
909
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,000
Um...
910
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:19,000
Yeah, I think, look, I think you're going to have to do an awful lot of fact,
911
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:20,200
thinking with Michael,
912
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:23,000
if you're going to do some sort of documentary.
913
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,000
Um...
914
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:26,000
Yeah.
915
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,000
So, is he got some sort of disorder,
916
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,000
or is he just a bit out there,
917
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,000
or what do you think his deal is?
918
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,200
Because I've been spending a lot of time with him,
919
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:38,000
and I cannot make heads or tails of what's going on in his brain.
920
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:42,000
You know, I'm not a psychologist, but he's, um...
921
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:45,000
Yeah, Michael, I mean, Michael's down from, uh,
922
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:46,000
he's struggling, yeah,
923
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,000
so I'm quite a wealthy dude.
924
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,000
Michael was sort of like,
925
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,000
like, hound in the family.
926
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:55,000
That was far, that was always a little bit bullish with him.
927
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,000
But, um...
928
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,000
But, uh, I think he's,
929
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,000
once he started getting charged with criminal fixes
930
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,000
and the whole thing ended up in his newspapers
931
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,000
with, uh, the title on the website,
932
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:10,000
stuff like this.
933
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:14,000
But I, uh, I think the family's relationship sort of...
934
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:17,000
Um, uh...
935
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,000
I guess his father, in particular,
936
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,000
probably brings him away a little bit,
937
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:22,000
and some are so soft.
938
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,000
And...
939
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:25,000
and...
940
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,000
brothers...
941
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:29,000
are falling at the...
942
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,000
So, Michael's brother is a real lawyer.
943
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,000
Dean Organ.
944
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:40,000
I'd actually contacted him when I was trying to find the fake lawyer,
945
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,000
the mysterious M.D.A. Organ.
946
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:47,000
Back then, Dean hadn't been forthcoming.
947
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,000
And all he said was,
948
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:51,000
saying,
949
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,000
don't know anything about this.
950
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,000
It would have been nice if he'd said,
951
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,000
that's my brother.
952
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,000
Now I know his family,
953
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,000
maybe he can provide some insight.
954
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,000
I drive to his office,
955
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,000
which appears to be just his house.
956
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:14,000
Oh, hey, Dean.
957
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:15,000
I'm David.
958
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:16,000
Are you recording me?
959
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:17,000
Yeah.
960
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,000
Well, I'd rather not talk to people who turn up with my door recording.
961
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:21,000
What's this about?
962
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:22,000
Okay, I can...
963
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:22,500
I'm...
964
01:06:22,500 --> 01:06:25,000
been looking into your brother, Michael, for some time.
965
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:26,000
I just, I just said,
966
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,000
I'd rather not talk to people who I don't know who turn up to my door.
967
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,000
Yeah, no, I understood.
968
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:32,000
Yeah, understood.
969
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:33,700
Could you leave the property place?
970
01:06:33,700 --> 01:06:35,800
Yeah, I definitely don't want to create any angst.
971
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:37,200
I'm trying to know who you are.
972
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:38,000
Yeah.
973
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,000
I'm not terribly impressed, but...
974
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:42,000
No, I certainly don't mean...
975
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:43,000
I certainly...
976
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,000
No, no, because what I'm trying to do is try and figure out...
977
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:47,000
Figure out what?
978
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,000
I'm trying to learn about who Michael is,
979
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:54,000
because the effect Michael's had on people over the years is what I'm interested in.
980
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:55,700
No idea what you're talking about.
981
01:06:55,700 --> 01:06:56,400
Okay.
982
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,200
And I'm saying that maybe if you operate a little bit differently,
983
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:01,200
people would be more inclined to talk to you.
984
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:02,000
Yeah, I'm with you.
985
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,000
Well, journalists, right?
986
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:05,000
Yeah.
987
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,000
Well, when I emailed you as a journalist,
988
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,000
I guess my issue was I emailed you saying,
989
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,300
you know, there's an organ that's saying he's a lawyer.
990
01:07:11,300 --> 01:07:12,000
Is this you?
991
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,000
And I guess what would be so helpful at that point
992
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:17,200
when I'm looking into something is for you to go,
993
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:22,000
it's not me, but it's my brother and maybe just be wary or something.
994
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:23,000
I don't know.
995
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:23,700
It was just...
996
01:07:23,700 --> 01:07:24,800
Well, that's your friend.
997
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:26,100
And you're on top of that idea.
998
01:07:26,100 --> 01:07:29,000
But at the end of the day, as I say,
999
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:34,000
I'm not a person who would be a hurry to talk to anybody,
1000
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,000
a stranger about anything to do with family.
1001
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:38,000
Hello.
1002
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:46,000
Oh, hi. Is that Albert?
1003
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaking.
1004
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,000
Oh, hey. It's my name's David Ferrier.
1005
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,000
I'm a documentary filmmaker based in New Zealand.
1006
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:53,000
How are you?
1007
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,000
Fine. Thank you.
1008
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:56,000
Good.
1009
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:59,000
It's a bit of an obscure phone call to get out of the blue,
1010
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:05,000
but I'm making a documentary about Michael Organ.
1011
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,000
That I'll do. Thank you.
1012
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:10,000
You don't... I'm just trying to figure...
1013
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:15,000
Oh, thank God. I know your name and I know your reputation.
1014
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:19,000
I'll leave it at that. Don't find here again. Thank you.
1015
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:23,000
I just want to try and figure out why your son is doing what he's doing.
1016
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:28,000
All right. I guess that's a no from the parents.
1017
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:32,000
It's about his brother Michael. It's a weird one.
1018
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,000
I'm the guy that was... I'm David.
1019
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:35,900
I was writing about him a little bit.
1020
01:08:35,900 --> 01:08:37,000
Yeah, I don't really know.
1021
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,200
I really don't think he's going to be interested in...
1022
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,000
No, no. And that's totally valid and fair.
1023
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,000
And I just wanted to reach out.
1024
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:44,000
And I know it's...
1025
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,200
So, yeah, if you could just hold back from the family,
1026
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:47,000
because it's...
1027
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:48,000
Okay.
1028
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:49,000
Yeah, it's not...
1029
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:52,000
It's not a good thing to be probing into with our family.
1030
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,000
It's a good thing.
1031
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:02,000
Yeah, she just felt...
1032
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,000
It didn't feel...
1033
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,000
I think she was different to Dean.
1034
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,000
She was more like just paying by it.
1035
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,000
Like she was just like, oh, I'll make this go away.
1036
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,000
It was kind of her vibe and not necessarily to protect the family,
1037
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:20,000
but just like kind of got the vibe that Michael had been a real fucking asshole or something.
1038
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:22,000
She just felt a bit more damaged.
1039
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:25,000
She didn't feel like she was being devious.
1040
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,000
Um...
1041
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:32,000
Like Dean was just straight up making me the bad guy.
1042
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:33,800
There was none of that from Paris.
1043
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,000
She was just like, I think like, oh, this is just awful.
1044
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:37,000
You should leave it.
1045
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:42,000
Yeah.
1046
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:47,000
I'm just going to take this to the concert.
1047
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:53,000
It's not a concert.
1048
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:54,000
It's a concert.
1049
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:55,000
I can't.
1050
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:56,000
I can hear you.
1051
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:00,000
It's a council related meeting, so we can't...
1052
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,000
Oh, I'll call it after two.
1053
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:05,000
Okay, I'll call you back after two.
1054
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:09,000
Um, so if Michael is in a council meeting till two,
1055
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:13,000
that means Jillian might be home on her own, so I think it's worth just going over
1056
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:17,000
and seeing if I can talk to her without Michael there,
1057
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:20,000
which would be like a gift.
1058
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:23,000
I think that's it.
1059
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:26,000
Is that the front door?
1060
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:30,000
I guess it is.
1061
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:42,000
Hello.
1062
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:51,000
What does he need?
1063
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:56,000
No one home.
1064
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:59,000
Hey, Michael.
1065
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:04,000
He might want to film me doing something moving over that.
1066
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:05,000
Okay.
1067
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:09,000
Because I didn't trust you before, I was going to serve you at the last eight years,
1068
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:10,000
I should.
1069
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:14,000
Oh, so this is a trespass notice for your house.
1070
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:15,000
Okay.
1071
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:19,000
Wanted to go and catch up, Jillian.
1072
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,000
But no one was home, so we left.
1073
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,000
You're actually crossing the line.
1074
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:28,000
You've proved your excuses that you're giving us the right to reply.
1075
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:31,000
My reply to you is you can get fucked.
1076
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:32,000
Okay.
1077
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:36,000
You know what we've been filming this documentary with you?
1078
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:39,000
You are quite prepared.
1079
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:41,000
And you've been very hot and cold on it.
1080
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:43,000
You are quite prepared.
1081
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:44,000
And this is a cold bit.
1082
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:53,000
You are quite prepared to override more by committing conversion.
1083
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,000
As the court said,
1084
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:58,000
I find it really hard to trust anything you tell me.
1085
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:00,000
I'm not an trusted David.
1086
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:03,000
Because you're not interested in the truth.
1087
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:06,100
It's a challenge because of the shame that you must lead Parliament.
1088
01:12:06,100 --> 01:12:08,000
I didn't miss lead Parliament.
1089
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:09,200
You must lead Parliament.
1090
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:14,000
I've got you on camera saying you were charging $760 to remove a clamp.
1091
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:16,000
I've got footage of you saying that.
1092
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,600
You've been continuously telling me that you never said it.
1093
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:20,000
That was on for a clamp.
1094
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:22,000
That was for two clamps.
1095
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:23,000
Oh, goes for two clamps.
1096
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:24,000
Not one clamp, but two.
1097
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:25,000
Yeah, exactly.
1098
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:25,600
Okay.
1099
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:27,300
It's like, I know you stole that yacht.
1100
01:12:27,300 --> 01:12:28,000
Like, I know.
1101
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:28,600
Well, I did it.
1102
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:30,000
Those signatures were forged.
1103
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:31,300
I know you removed the yacht.
1104
01:12:31,300 --> 01:12:32,100
Like, that's a fact.
1105
01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:33,000
Adams?
1106
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,000
Like, you stole that yacht.
1107
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,000
Like, that's just a fact.
1108
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,000
And so, when you're continuously calling in...
1109
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:40,000
No, I did it.
1110
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:41,000
David.
1111
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:42,000
It was you, Michael.
1112
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:44,000
It was you.
1113
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:46,000
You can say it as much as there's...
1114
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,000
You like it's supposition.
1115
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:49,000
That's a good choice.
1116
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,000
I think you go through life creating your own version of reality.
1117
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:55,000
Unless you are calling Jillian a liar.
1118
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:56,000
Jillian.
1119
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:57,300
And still talking about you.
1120
01:12:57,300 --> 01:13:03,000
Before we part ways, do you want to have a coffee with just a casual coffee and a relax?
1121
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:04,000
Oh, yeah.
1122
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:07,000
That's fine.
1123
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,000
Let's just have a nice coffee.
1124
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:12,000
What sort of coffee would you like?
1125
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:17,000
Probably an Irish one after this, but...
1126
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:18,000
Ah, chill.
1127
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:19,200
Excuse me just for a moment.
1128
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:21,000
No, get in there.
1129
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,000
Are they, Michael, speaking?
1130
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:25,000
How did you meet, Mike?
1131
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:26,000
Helen?
1132
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:27,200
How did you meet, Michael?
1133
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:28,000
Yes.
1134
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:34,000
Michael was a customer, a client, that came in to buy antiques and the...
1135
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:35,000
Right.
1136
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:36,000
...in the store.
1137
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:37,000
Sorry, good.
1138
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:38,000
Sorry.
1139
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:40,000
I'm actually...
1140
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:42,000
Would I be able to...
1141
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:43,400
What was your first impression?
1142
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:45,000
Was that okay?
1143
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:47,000
Although he was very knowledgeable.
1144
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:48,000
Thank you.
1145
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:50,000
Very informed by him.
1146
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:54,000
Did you ever lie, Michael, about anything?
1147
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:58,000
That, um...
1148
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:02,000
...is not relevant, nor is it your business.
1149
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:03,000
It's pretty relevant.
1150
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:05,000
I would say that that would be a...
1151
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:06,500
No, it's pretty relevant.
1152
01:14:06,500 --> 01:14:08,000
You're calling other people liars.
1153
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:09,000
Call me a liar.
1154
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:11,000
You've put a lot of other people liars.
1155
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:16,000
No, I said you've been dishonest and that you've hidden the truth from people.
1156
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,000
Yeah.
1157
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:20,000
Yeah, I don't know. It's just...
1158
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:23,000
I just see you accuse a lot of other people, a lot of things.
1159
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:27,000
Oh, if someone testifies Falsi in court, then they're a bloody liar.
1160
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:28,000
Right.
1161
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:30,000
But you didn't see evil.
1162
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,000
In what context?
1163
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:33,000
Just in life.
1164
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:34,000
Yeah.
1165
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,000
As I said to you, I'm not answering that.
1166
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,000
It's none of your business.
1167
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,000
If I'm totally honest with you, Michael...
1168
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:43,000
You're sounding like you're a little bit peaked.
1169
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:46,000
I find it, like...
1170
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:49,000
It's frustrating...
1171
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:53,000
...spending all this time with you because you do...
1172
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:56,000
...continuously...
1173
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:57,000
...lie...
1174
01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,000
...about everything.
1175
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:00,000
No.
1176
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:01,000
And I mean everything.
1177
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:02,900
And it's a really...
1178
01:15:02,900 --> 01:15:05,300
I haven't been around someone like you before that does...
1179
01:15:05,300 --> 01:15:07,000
So, what are you wanting me to do?
1180
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:11,000
Are you wanting me to say I stole a yacht when I didn't steal a yacht?
1181
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:14,000
Is there anything else, Gillian, you wanted to add...
1182
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,000
To any of this discussion?
1183
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:17,000
I can't think.
1184
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:18,000
Really?
1185
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:23,000
Can I ever talk to you just on your own, just to eat your take on everything?
1186
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,000
Well, not at the moment, I can't.
1187
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:34,000
Because I feel I've talked to Michael a lot, but I'd love to talk to you at some point.
1188
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,000
If you're open to that.
1189
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:43,000
Not at the moment, not today.
1190
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:46,000
It's been too much today.
1191
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:51,000
If you want to do some time, that would be really neat.
1192
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:57,000
I've heard from a lot of people that you have come into contact with over the years...
1193
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:03,000
...that you have moved in on in a fairly systematic way...
1194
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:07,000
...to sort of ingratiate yourself into their lives.
1195
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:15,000
And I think you've left people behind who are incredibly damaged.
1196
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:19,000
Oh, what a load of rubbish.
1197
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:21,000
Who is people?
1198
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:24,000
It's absolute.
1199
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,000
What a load.
1200
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:28,000
Rubbish.
1201
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:31,000
Absolute rubbish.
1202
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:36,000
Someone like Brent Lewis, do you know Brent Lewis?
1203
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:41,000
He owned a bookstore in a stromo box.
1204
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:46,000
He was a very good friend of ours.
1205
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:50,000
The thing about Brent is, he was just a bit mad.
1206
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:51,000
You know what I mean?
1207
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:56,000
In a nice way, not for crazy, slightly crazy, but not enough.
1208
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:59,000
I mean, he didn't have any bone in his body.
1209
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,000
Yeah, right, right, right, right. I'm with you.
1210
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:08,000
And it also transpired in latter life that he was gay.
1211
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:15,000
And he didn't try to hide it. He came out, you know, just basically had nobody to hide it from.
1212
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:21,000
But it didn't mean that he had a soft spot for younger men around the shop.
1213
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:23,000
Right, right, right.
1214
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:28,000
He had a little circle of people, young guys, that were interested in poetry.
1215
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:32,000
And it was almost like he was running a little poetry club up there, you know.
1216
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,000
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.
1217
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:41,000
Does that sort of open us to sharing ideas, poetry and things like that, with younger men,
1218
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:45,000
that allowed Morgan to get a foot in the door at Master Remo?
1219
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:48,000
Right, so that's a remet organ.
1220
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,000
Yeah, yeah.
1221
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:57,000
The story, as I recall it, was that Brent had been given,
1222
01:17:57,000 --> 01:18:02,000
I think it was a model yacht to put on display in the shop window.
1223
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:08,000
And Michael Organ then had taken a complaint to the police that Brent had stolen it.
1224
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:13,000
Now, I know Brent, Brent didn't steal anything, you know.
1225
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:20,000
He was totally honest, and it was causing him real anxiety.
1226
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:27,000
I think Michael Organ, he accused him of stealing some model boat,
1227
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:31,000
who arose out of something as simple as that,
1228
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:37,000
and he accused Brent and he worked on him psychologically.
1229
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:41,000
He was very fearful of him. He was fearful.
1230
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:47,000
He thought that he would cause him some harm,
1231
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:51,000
get it at him some way and cause him harm.
1232
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:55,000
It's really all I can say about it, I think.
1233
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:58,000
Was there anything any friends could do around him?
1234
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:00,800
Like, what was your take that you could sort of do, you know,
1235
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:04,400
because it's hard to know how to deal with someone when they're scared of something
1236
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:09,000
and you don't really know whether that's valid or not?
1237
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:16,000
Well, it was had to be valid because he felt it.
1238
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:22,000
I just remember the haunted look in Brent's eyes when he talked about this.
1239
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:25,000
Nothing like this had happened to him before.
1240
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:29,000
He was on medication to deal with it.
1241
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:34,000
But for reasons that we don't clearly understand one night,
1242
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:39,000
remember it back in 2009, I'd seen him just a week earlier,
1243
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:43,000
he was staying in a flat on Simon Street on the seventh floor
1244
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:46,000
and he went on to the balcony and jumped off.
1245
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:49,000
And that's how he lost his life.
1246
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:59,000
I remember sadly looking at the hollow in the ground,
1247
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:02,000
it had been left by the impact of his body when he jumped.
1248
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:05,000
And just the overwhelming feeling, Brent, what was in your head
1249
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:14,000
that things had become so bad that you thought you had to do this?
1250
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:19,000
Now, in his bookshop, coming into his bookshop, there was this,
1251
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:24,000
I won't name names, we know who he is.
1252
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:27,000
Those who were round the bookshop know who he was.
1253
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:32,000
He was a demonic character and he wore Brent down.
1254
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:40,000
He could not deal with it, he could not face up to that kind of mental cruelty.
1255
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:47,000
And he thought and believed that the fellow was praying on him.
1256
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:53,000
Watching Orgen being talked about at Brent's funeral is surreal,
1257
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:57,000
this whole story I've just been told is surreal.
1258
01:20:57,000 --> 01:21:01,000
That Orgen accused Brent of the crime he himself had carried out,
1259
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:03,000
stealing a yacht.
1260
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:14,000
It seems almost poetic in a way, but it's not poetic, it's horrible.
1261
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:24,000
And I just think it's to do with Michael Orgen's psychological interest
1262
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:30,000
in manipulating Brent because he saw him as a ready victim.
1263
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:38,000
And he got into Brent's mind and her degree dominated him.
1264
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:45,000
The Germans have that term, you know, dark mind that people get a satisfaction
1265
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:58,000
from spreading misery or seeing somebody in some form of what they see as crisis
1266
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:01,000
or something awful.
1267
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:07,000
Suddenly, all the conversations I've had with Michael start to make sense.
1268
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:13,000
Sometimes people when you know the poor they get close to you
1269
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:17,000
or in your circle through other people you know
1270
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:20,000
may actually be, I don't use the term walls and sheets below
1271
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:23,000
and that's what they can actually be.
1272
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:30,000
They can even suck here, they can eat your food, they can sort of attain
1273
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:33,000
when you share your wine.
1274
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:40,000
They can smile when they greet you, they can almost...
1275
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:42,000
These people are about this.
1276
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:47,000
There is that size to some people.
1277
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:52,000
For years, I've been trying to get Michael Orgen to tell me
1278
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:57,000
who's behind all the crazy stuff I've been discovering.
1279
01:22:57,000 --> 01:23:00,000
And I to the stage do not know what the name of that man is,
1280
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:05,000
but if I was lined up, I could kick him out of any crowd.
1281
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:10,000
If I told you what the person looked like and how he spoke,
1282
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:15,000
then you would be able to ascertain who it was, I would think.
1283
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:20,000
Of course I could, because I think they're all him.
1284
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:25,000
It's my theory that anyone Michael doesn't name is himself.
1285
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:33,000
The person who provided that key would accept confidentiality.
1286
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:36,000
It wasn't promised that they'd expect it,
1287
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:39,000
and they're not the kinds of people you run across.
1288
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:44,000
He knew who stole my key the same way he knew who sent those legal threats
1289
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:46,000
from Gillian's email account.
1290
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,000
You may have an inkling who it is, but that...
1291
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:50,000
No, I don't know.
1292
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:51,000
I'll just buy his life.
1293
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:54,000
And Michael gets very specific,
1294
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:58,000
telling me the person who set a map spelt his name wrong.
1295
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:02,000
A tell with it was that what was written...
1296
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:05,000
One of the things that was written, someone spelt my name wrong.
1297
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:08,000
I think they put E-A-E-L instead of A-E-L.
1298
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:14,000
But Michael's been signing his own name like this for decades.
1299
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:22,000
And of course Michael Organ had told me he knew who'd harassed Brent Lewis.
1300
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:26,000
It was someone who sounded very familiar.
1301
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:29,000
And it was very strange because there was a lawyer.
1302
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:33,000
All I remember is he said it was why I never had his name.
1303
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:40,000
And he started becoming involved in doing this weird stuff with Brent.
1304
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:45,000
And when I first saw him he was quite disheveled,
1305
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,000
and not that always can't be disheveled,
1306
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:49,000
but I thought, is this guy actually a lawyer?
1307
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:53,000
And I thought at the time he's seen very dodgy.
1308
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:54,000
So who was this guy?
1309
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:55,000
The Chicago guy.
1310
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:56,000
I don't know his name.
1311
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:59,000
Never knew his name.
1312
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:05,000
Even in our very last meeting he started making allegations about someone else.
1313
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:08,000
The police referred to him as predatory.
1314
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:12,000
So as soon as I heard that I thought, that's it.
1315
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:18,000
We don't do predatory.
1316
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:23,000
I wonder who we're talking about,
1317
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:26,000
because you and I know we both know who we're talking about.
1318
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:30,000
I've got a suspicion of who we're talking about.
1319
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:32,000
Yes.
1320
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:48,000
I thought all my time with Michael had been wasted, that I'd learnt nothing.
1321
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:53,000
But the truth is, Michael had been telling me about himself from the first day I met him.
1322
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:59,000
He's a man almost attached from his own body, occupying this unique place in society.
1323
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:05,000
Free from consequence, free from the law, free to do whatever he wants to people.
1324
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:14,000
I've been trespassed from all Michael's properties now.
1325
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,000
Well, his and Jillian's.
1326
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:17,000
The house, the bank.
1327
01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:19,000
It's all off limits.
1328
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:27,000
But there's one place I can go, another place Michael lived, up until a few months ago.
1329
01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:34,000
While I'll never understand Michael's mind, maybe this place will provide answers.
1330
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:45,000
King's seat was an old psychiatric hospital, originally opening back in 1932.
1331
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:55,000
Patients would later complain of abuse, tiny locked rooms, dead bolts on the doors, physical and mental torture.
1332
01:26:55,000 --> 01:27:05,000
It shut down in 1999, but some people still choose to live out here, cheap rent, sprawling grounds.
1333
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:10,000
Michael lived in one of the old psychiatric wards.
1334
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:14,000
I wonder what he left behind.
1335
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:17,000
Who he left behind.
1336
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:30,000
Yeah, well, see, he had most of this whole interior of the villa to himself, because he was the head tenet.
1337
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:34,000
So he was letting out rooms to people, getting them into rent and that.
1338
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:40,000
So this was sort of where the four eras, this is all, it's a big place.
1339
01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:47,000
Yeah, although they had a lot of people here at once, they had fifty to a hundred people, they'd bring them in here when they were running the mental hospital.
1340
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:49,700
So where was his old, where was his room?
1341
01:27:49,700 --> 01:27:51,800
This is upstairs, look upstairs and have a look.
1342
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:56,000
I'll show you where his head is bedroom and their kitchen and their lounge and that sort of thing.
1343
01:27:56,000 --> 01:28:00,000
But he used to like to spend most of his time dwelling around other people's areas.
1344
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:03,000
Being a parasite, he would come into their area.
1345
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:10,000
I've been tidied up a lot, he's a bloody mess of a pigsty head.
1346
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:11,000
Yeah.
1347
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:15,000
Yeah, he poisoned me off, he left me angry and crazy in the head.
1348
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:18,000
And that's what, that's his trademark.
1349
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:24,000
You know, soften the map, poison them off and shoot them down in flames.
1350
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:27,000
And what do you mean by poisoning people off?
1351
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:38,000
What he does, he tries to get inside their head and psycho dysfunctionalise them, muck them up and dull them down and try and give them, you know, stun them and turn them into a zombie and then dig deep.
1352
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:43,000
See, I've been filming with him over the last couple of years and I've been feeling elements of that.
1353
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:49,000
Like it's hard to explain to people why you get that way, but it's like he does it.
1354
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:58,000
And that's what he does, he just victimises people, that's all he's all about, just crushes and chews and shits on people as he goes basically.
1355
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:02,000
He wanted me to go and move down to Wonga Nui with him.
1356
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:03,000
And to him?
1357
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:07,000
He was trying to talk me into leaving here and going and moving with him to Wonga Nui.
1358
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:11,000
I thought he might as a jump out the bloody window, he'd better off.
1359
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:15,000
Hopefully he'd break your legs or your neck and he'd be dead, rather than go with him.
1360
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:19,000
He didn't end up dead anyway.
1361
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:25,000
He used to come in my room quite a bit, but he loves to go around when you're a bed of sleep and get in your room.
1362
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:33,000
He's got this really sort of weird, sneaky, creepy thing.
1363
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:37,000
It's a certain vibe, isn't it?
1364
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:47,000
Because he sort of long, very boring story, but when the shop closed down, I took some old signs that would buy the bin, and then he accused me of stealing them.
1365
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:48,000
They did that right.
1366
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:52,400
And then I was going to give them back to them and they disappeared overnight from where I had them.
1367
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:54,000
When he was gone and taken them.
1368
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:56,000
You live in Tamponsenby?
1369
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:57,000
I'm in Tamponsenby.
1370
01:29:57,000 --> 01:30:00,000
He's been around your house, sneaking around your house.
1371
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:01,000
How do you know that?
1372
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:04,000
He goes and prowls and looks after people.
1373
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:05,000
That's what he does.
1374
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:10,000
He goes around people's houses and that and spies on them and that.
1375
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:13,000
So how did you know that he had been to my house?
1376
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:16,000
Because he's talked all about you and said that he's gone to you.
1377
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:18,000
Fucking hell.
1378
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:19,000
He's been going around.
1379
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:21,000
He's got a key to your house.
1380
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:23,000
He does have a key to my house.
1381
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:25,000
That's actually illegal.
1382
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:29,000
He's not supposed to be doing that because it's your house and your property.
1383
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:31,000
So he openly talks about this.
1384
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:37,000
In his head he gets delusioned about making victims out of people.
1385
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:43,000
Once he gets the idea and is head about he's going to go for someone or go after someone.
1386
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,000
That's the end of it.
1387
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:47,000
What do you do?
1388
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:48,000
That's the thing.
1389
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:52,000
In the old days they see people to places like that.
1390
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:53,000
Like here.
1391
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:56,000
What they've done now is they just chuck them into the street.
1392
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:58,000
But he weirdly ended up here anyway.
1393
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:00,000
But it's not mental.
1394
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:03,000
Yeah, well, Twitter is too late for doctors and the nurses.
1395
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:04,000
I'm here anymore.
1396
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:06,000
But he could fill this place up on his own.
1397
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:07,000
Oh yeah.
1398
01:31:07,000 --> 01:31:10,000
You just get him to go around the general population.
1399
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:13,000
He could make plenty of customers for this place.
1400
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:15,400
Poisoning people like making people mental crazy.
1401
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:17,000
Destabilizing people.
1402
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:19,000
That's his function.
1403
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:21,000
Yeah.
1404
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:32,000
Fuck.
1405
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:36,000
He makes up so much muck about people.
1406
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:38,000
Like you're some evil person.
1407
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:39,000
Yeah.
1408
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:43,000
Oh, there's this bastard who's going on making this documentary about me.
1409
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:46,000
And on one sort of hand you can sort of see that he's loving it.
1410
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:48,200
And he's getting his euphoric pleasure from it.
1411
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:51,000
But the same time it's bugging him or biting at him as well.
1412
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:56,000
Psychologically because it's the truth that really he's a bastard.
1413
01:31:56,000 --> 01:32:00,000
And he's gone around just poisoning the world off and leaving everybody in
1414
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:04,000
a wake of destructive mess that he leaves behind with everybody afterwards.
1415
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:06,000
That's all he does.
1416
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:07,000
Yeah.
1417
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:14,000
Just to add up.
1418
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:22,000
Well, what has, like I said, his whole life will just spend expanding
1419
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:26,000
continuously goes along just getting people and just trying to poison them off.
1420
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:28,000
That's what he does.
1421
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:30,000
Possibly he's an evil spirit.
1422
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:35,000
That's why he runs the way he does.
1423
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:38,000
I wonder if Michael will end up.
1424
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:40,000
If he went down to hell,
1425
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:44,000
then Satan would be up banging on the door asking God,
1426
01:32:44,000 --> 01:33:12,000
please get me away from Michael.
1427
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:30,000
You have crossed the line and films of Level 3 felt.
1428
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:44,000
Okay.
1429
01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:45,000
Bye, Mike.
1430
01:33:45,000 --> 01:34:13,000
Just happy.
1431
01:34:13,000 --> 01:34:20,000
Thank you.
1432
01:34:43,000 --> 01:35:38,000
Thank you.
1433
01:35:48,000 --> 01:36:03,000
Thank you.
117134
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