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Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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Making myself look dead,
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00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,480
it's nothing to do
with death itself.
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00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,640
It's making myself
look as different from me
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00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,560
as it was possible to imagine, so,
I could really be convincing
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as being somebody else.
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00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,480
Dennis Andrew Nilsen
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seemed to be an ordinary man
with an ordinary life.
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Bloody finger! You great pillock.
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00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:27,440
But behind the facade,
he was the stuff of nightmares.
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00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,560
It could kill somebody!
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00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,000
Because Nilsen was a killer
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with the blood of at least
12 young men on his hands.
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Dennis Nilsen
wanted to be in control
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00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,760
and dominant and domineering.
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A seemingly boring civil servant
who hid in the shadows.
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Nilsen was known as dodgy.
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He had a terrible temper.
He was violent.
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A control freak.
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Now, the story of the making
of a mass murderer can be revealed
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in never-before-aired material.
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NILSEN ON TAPE
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Exclusive testament
from the detectives
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who brought him to justice.
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There was a pair of legs
sticking out the end
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of a big black bin liner.
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I said to him, "How many bodies
are we talking about here?"
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And his reply,
"I've killed 15 or 16."
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It was one hell of a shock.
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How many people
were buried in that garden?
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The prison interview
the Home Office tried to ban.
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It was my power and his passivity.
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The more passive he could be,
the more powerful I was.
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And the families of Nilsen's victims
speaking for the first time.
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My dad was relentless in the way
he searched for our Martyn.
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He said, "Where are you, son?"
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Dennis Nilsen destroyed my family.
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VOICE BREAKS
Sorry.
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You pull the body out
from under the floorboards,
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put it on a sheet
and then cut it up.
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This shocking interview
was filmed in 1992.
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A cold-blooded killer
calmly describing
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how he got rid of his victims.
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Come the summer, it got hot,
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and I knew there would be
a smell problem.
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I thought, well, I'm going to have
to deal with the smell problem.
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And I thought what would cause
the smell more than anything else?
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And I came to the conclusion
it was the innards.
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This footage hasn't been seen
on British television
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for over 20 years.
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On a weekend, I would sort of
pull up the floorboards,
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and I found it totally unpleasant
and I get blinding drunk,
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so, I could face it and start
dissection on the kitchen floor.
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I'd go out and be sick
outside in the garden.
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But how did we get here?
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12 years earlier, Dennis Nilsen
was in the middle of murder spree.
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Opportunities for a serial killer
seemed horrifyingly easy.
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Britain was undergoing huge
social change.
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00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,720
But not everywhere.
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I joined the Metropolitan Police
in April 1979.
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I came into the station
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and there were two guys there
who were on my team.
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I went up to them and said,
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"Hello, I'm WPC 8141,
I'm starting today."
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And they looked at me and said,
"Oh, for fuck's sake,
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"we've already got one on the team,
we don't need another one."
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That was my first introduction
to being a female police officer.
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In the early '80s,
London was a magnet
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for thousands of young people
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heading to the city
to follow their dreams.
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REPORTER:
'It's a familiar story,
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'every night, trains
from Scotland and the North
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'carry those hoping to escape
a dull and dreary existence
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00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,600
'and looking for
the extra excitement
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00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,560
'they believe life in the capital
will bring.'
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But for many,
the reality was very different.
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And huge numbers were going missing.
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'At any one time, 8,000 people are
listed as missing in London alone,
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'a clear illustration of how easy
it is for someone
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'to simply disappear
without trace.'
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We would give it 24 hours.
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If they didn't come back,
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then we would obviously do
the surrounding police stations.
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Have they been arrested
for anything?
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Hospital checks,
but that's really all we did.
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In 1983,
I was the detective inspector
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at Hornsey Police Station,
in north London.
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In those days,
a missing person bureau
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was a small office at Scotland Yard.
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They didn't have
a national database,
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it just wasn't
very professional at all.
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ARCHIVE REPORT:
'They've often, deliberately
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'cut all links with the past
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'and this makes them
an easy target for exploitation
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'by criminals or conmen.'
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Because they were young,
they were inexperienced
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and when they got there,
you could say they were led astray.
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It meant they could be easy prey
for someone like Dennis Nilsen.
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Martyn Duffy was one of them.
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Our Martyn had a lovely smile. Yeah.
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He'd do anything for anyone.
He had a heart of gold.
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Hazyl and Graham are talking for
the first time about their brother
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and the last Christmas
they spent together in 1979.
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You look at those photographs
and you can see he was happy.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It was one of the best times,
I suppose. Yeah.
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As a family, we were all happy,
we were all together. Yeah.
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In May 1980,
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the 16-year-old ran away to London
in the hope of finding work.
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00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,240
Something he'd done before.
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But this time, no-one heard
from Martyn after he'd arrived.
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He didn't go to any of the contacts
we knew he had there,
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he just disappeared
off the face of the earth.
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Martyn's disappearance
was reported to the police.
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His name was simply added
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to the list of thousands
who were missing in London.
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My dad was relentless in the way
he searched for our Martyn.
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There was a photograph of Martyn
by his bed
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and he just looked at it
and he said, "Where are you, son?"
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It was obvious that something bad
had happened. Mm.
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And something terrible
had taken place.
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Three years later,
the truth was about to be revealed.
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00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,360
Hornsey Police Station,
North London.
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00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,360
Detective Inspector Steve McCusker
was about to get a report
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that would haunt him
for the rest of his career.
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A uniformed colleague of mine
came to my office.
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He told me he'd been called
to an incident
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at a house in Cranley Gardens.
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Plumbers had found something
suspicious down the drain
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they were unblocking.
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McCusker headed to the house
with his boss,
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Detective Chief Inspector Peter Jay.
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When we got up there,
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we saw a number of people standing
around an open manhole cover.
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REPORTER: 'What did you find?'
A mass of flesh.
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Very heavily suspected
that it wasn't animal.
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'One of the people in the house
was quite interested?'
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That's correct.
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Yes, the guy, I believe was living
in the top floor flat. Yeah.
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'The man living in the flat
was a job centre supervisor
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'called Dennis Andrew Nilsen.'
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It was snowing, sleet,
real miserable, wet, dark evening.
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His boss told him, "Look,
put the manhole cover back on
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"and we will come to investigate it
in the morning in the light of day."
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With the manhole left unguarded,
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the neighbours heard Nilsen
going up and down the drain
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at around midnight.
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When Cattron returned the next day,
the remains had gone.
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If a manhole can be sparkling,
it was sparkling!
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But he did put his hand up
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and he was able to extract from
the smaller drains in a manhole,
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erm, what looked like
the fingers and knuckles
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and skin and bone of human hand.
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We got a phone call
from the mortuary,
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telling us that, indeed, the bones
were actually from human being.
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00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,560
Our main suspect was a guy
called Dennis Nilsen.
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Sometimes,
he goes by the name of Des.
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Des was due home from work
at around half past five.
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Detectives Peter Jay
Steve McCusker and Jeff Butler
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were waiting for him.
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He arrived, he was dressed
in a trench coat, wearing glasses,
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carrying a briefcase.
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We did say we were police officers
from Hornsey police station.
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Nilsen expressed
some surprise at this.
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He said, since when did police
officers get interested
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in looking at people's drains?
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We said, let's go up to your flat
and we'll tell you all about it.
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He opened his door with a key.
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It was a grubby flat.
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00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,120
There was a grubbiness to it
and, of course, the smell,
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the smell was absolutely awful.
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It was the smell of death.
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00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,040
Peter said to him, "Stop messing
us about, where is the body?"
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00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:15,960
He looked shocked.
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00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,000
It suddenly dawned on him
that the game was up.
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00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,120
And he simply said, "It's in there."
He pointed to a wardrobe to my left.
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00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:33,280
So, I opened the wardrobe and
I saw two black bin liner sacks,
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00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:38,040
full to the brim
with the remains of human bodies.
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Peter Jay then told Nilsen
that he was arresting him
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00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,000
on suspicion of murder
and cautioned him.
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The detectives put Nilsen
in the back of the car to take him
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00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,360
to the police station.
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00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:54,760
What he told Steve McCusker next
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00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,840
would be a defining moment
in the case.
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00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,000
And so I said to him, "How many
bodies are we talking about here?
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00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:02,640
"One or two?"
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00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,360
And his reply, shocked us.
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00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,280
"I've killed 15 or 16.
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00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,760
"There are three back here,
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00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,000
"and the rest I killed at a flat
I used to live in."
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00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,480
ARCHIVE REPORT: 'Scotland Yard
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00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,200
'launched its biggest
murder investigation today
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00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,880
'after a pathologist confirmed
that human remains,
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00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,120
'found in a sewer outfit,
were parts of three bodies.'
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00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,960
We knew we had not just a killer
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00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,960
but he said he was willing to talk,
tell us all about it.
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00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,640
We thought, well, we're going
to have a murder investigation.
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00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:47,480
We'll just get on with it.
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00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,080
Dennis Andrew Nilsen was under
arrest on suspicion of murder.
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00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,280
Detective Chief Superintendent
Geoff Chambers
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00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,600
and DCI Peter Jay
would question Nilsen.
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00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,160
While DI Steve McCusker ran
the day-to-day investigation.
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00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,560
'It was in this quiet
residential street
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00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,840
'in the north London suburb
of Muswell Hill,
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00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,080
'that the extraordinary
series of events
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00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,400
'began to unfold.'
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00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,800
The eyes of the world
were now on Nilsen's flat
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00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,000
as the murder investigation
intensified.
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00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,520
When we arrived at the property,
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00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:28,360
we went upstairs
to the second floor flat.
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00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,840
Walked into the flat
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00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,080
and straight away on the left-hand
side there was an open kitchen.
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00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,200
I noticed there was a head
in a cooking pot.
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00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,400
It had been boiled,
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00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,400
I think there was still
a bit of hair on the scalp.
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00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,080
Half the flesh was taken off it
and peeled back.
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00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,160
He'd severed right across
the back of the neck.
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00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,760
This is the first time
these officers have talked publicly
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00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,760
about the horrors
that confronted them.
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00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,520
It was one hell of a shock,
222
00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:07,280
probably the biggest shock
that I'd ever received...
223
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,120
at a crime scene.
224
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,040
At Hornsey Police Station,
Nilsen was talking to detectives,
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00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,280
calmly and lucidly.
Telling them what he'd done.
226
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,720
He was answering all the questions,
he wasn't nervous.
227
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,840
The only thing
that seemed to concern him
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00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,840
a lot was that he told me
he had a dog.
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00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,560
Oh! Ah! Bloody finger,
you great pillock.
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00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,280
I thought to myself at the time,
well, he is concerned about the dog
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00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,720
and there's the remains
of three bodies lying in his flat
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00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,080
of men he'd killed.
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00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,600
During his interviews,
Nilsen gave detectives details
234
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,160
of some of the men he'd murdered
over a four-year period.
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00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,400
But he could only remember
two of the three men
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00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,960
he had killed in Cranley Gardens.
237
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,920
His final victim,
who was called Sinclair,
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00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,760
and a man called John
from High Wycombe.
239
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,720
He was also
telling investigators
240
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,360
where they should look
for more remains.
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00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,440
In the bathroom,
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00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,480
there was an upturned drawer
which had been used as shelf.
243
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,720
We turned that over.
244
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,760
We almost held each other's hands
as we did it.
245
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,400
Underneath, there was a pair of legs
sticking out of the end
246
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:23,680
of a big black liner.
247
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,080
Bin bags containing body parts
were removed from the wardrobe.
248
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,440
So was a wooden box
holding limbs and torso.
249
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,680
Investigators also found
four carrier bags
250
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,880
filled with internal organs.
251
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,320
It was unbelievable
what we were seeing.
252
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:51,680
This was the work of a man, clearly
deranged and not in his right mind.
253
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,960
The detectives' main challenge
was to find out who he'd killed.
254
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,320
Using fingerprints
found on the flat,
255
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,680
the first person to have
their identity confirmed
256
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,720
was Stephen Sinclair.
257
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,480
The 20-year-old from Perth
had been strangled in his sleep.
258
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,280
Stephen Sinclair's identification
within 48 hours was crucial.
259
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,560
It meant that Nilsen could now
be formally charged with murder.
260
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,640
'Nilsen had been brought here
to Highgate Magistrate's Court
261
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,240
'from Hornsey police station
early this morning.
262
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,320
'Dennis Andrew Nilsen looked
straight at the magistrate
263
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:37,920
'as the charge was read to him.
264
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:42,120
'That he did on or about
the 1st of February, 1983,
265
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,480
'murder Stephen Neil Sinclair.'
266
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,400
SHOUTING
CAMERA SHUTTERS
267
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,200
A picture of who Dennis Nilsen
really was began to emerge.
268
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,840
In the early 1980s,
London's gay scene was thriving.
269
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,400
But there were also predators
looking to exploit the vulnerable.
270
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,720
And Nilsen was one of them.
271
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,640
What are you doing switching
the bloody thing on and off for?
272
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,920
You'll never make a cameraman,
you know.
273
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,520
He was recognisable as, you know,
a guy on the gay scene.
274
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,400
He was recognisable as gay.
275
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,080
And kind of old school.
276
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,680
I can't understand you.
277
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,160
I ask you to fucking start filming
from the feet,
278
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,600
slowly up to the head.
And you go zip, zip, pan.
279
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,640
Bloody hell,
don't you ever watch movies?
280
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,600
You've seen thousands of movies,
you must know what it's like.
281
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,920
Nilsen was known to be violent
towards young male sex workers,
282
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,360
and he was always on the hunt
for new victims,
283
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,400
people who didn't know
his reputation.
284
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,520
Nilsen was known as TTM.
285
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,720
The Taxi Man.
286
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,120
He was known to... chat up people.
287
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,560
The suggestion of money,
suggestion of a taxi,
288
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,760
"Do you want to come home,
stay the night with me?"
289
00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,560
It was that kind of thing.
290
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,080
Word was out that he was a...
He was dodgy.
291
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,560
That he had a terrible temper,
that he was violent.
292
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,520
He once said to me,
"Lead and they follow so easily."
293
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,960
Tragically, many did.
294
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,800
After Stephen Sinclair
was identified,
295
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,640
the investigation's attention
moved to Nilsen's previous home
296
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,240
in Melrose Avenue,
five miles from Cranley Gardens.
297
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,200
It was a ground-floor flat
with a back garden.
298
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,280
'Search teams, equipped
with spades, sieves and rakes
299
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,280
'arrived to turn over the garden
of Nilsen's first home
300
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,120
'in Melrose Avenue.'
301
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,680
Nilsen told the police he kept
up to three bodies at a time
302
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,400
under the floorboards
at Melrose Avenue.
303
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,080
He'd dissect them
on the kitchen floor,
304
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:51,120
then burn the dismembered body parts
in his back garden.
305
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,880
He drew a map to show
where he lit the fires.
306
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:58,440
When we got there,
307
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,880
we went straight down to the garden
and it was freezing.
308
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,160
And I thought,
"This is not gonna be easy,
309
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,960
"digging here anyway, in February."
310
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,600
We were looking for bones.
311
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,280
I found two or three
the first half an hour,
312
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,960
and then it went on to dozens.
313
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,360
We probably had 1,000 bones
in the ground there.
314
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,160
So, how many people are there?
315
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,960
The work is going slowly.
316
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,160
For it appears that the bones
are scattered
317
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,520
over the whole area of the garden.
318
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,040
I found a latchkey.
319
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,600
I found a torn, charred piece
of a postcard
320
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,040
with an Australian stamp on it.
321
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,520
Has he picked up a backpacker?
322
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,080
'How many people do you know of?'
323
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:45,680
Maybe five or six.
324
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,040
'Can you say anything about them?'
Nothing at all.
325
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,240
'Were they male or female?'
Male.
326
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,160
'And what age?'
327
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,080
We believe between 20 and 40.
328
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,240
Nilsen had moved into the ground
floor flat with his then boyfriend,
329
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,680
20-year-old David Gallichan,
in November, 1975.
330
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,640
Come on, mate,
let's have a little smile, then.
331
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,400
Come on.
Smile?
332
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,320
A little smile, come on.
Like that?
333
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:12,160
Come on, ducky, little smile.
334
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,800
Nilsen filmed this remarkable home
footage of David in the garden.
335
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,760
When we came here, this back garden
was like a bloody rubbish heap,
336
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,120
with tons of old cookers and tyres
and debris
337
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,120
and plaster and wood
and God knows what else.
338
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,080
This was the garden where Nilsen
would later burn the remains
339
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,640
of some of the men
he admitted killing.
340
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:42,000
In May, 1977, Nilsen's relationship
with David came to a bitter end.
341
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,040
You've been biting my cardigan
again.
342
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,080
It was the moment
everything seemed to change.
343
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:52,640
A year later,
he killed for the first time.
344
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,720
Professor David Wilson
is an expert on serial killers,
345
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,280
and has met many of them,
including Nilsen.
346
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:10,200
I first met Dennis Nilsen because
I was the new assistant governor
347
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,360
under training
at HMP Wormwood Scrubs.
348
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:20,600
And, of course, I'd read all
about this man in the newspapers.
349
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,440
There was a sense
in which I wondered,
350
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:29,120
"Have we got our own Hannibal Lecter
in Dennis Nilsen?"
351
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,040
And so I had this
incredible expectation
352
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,000
about meeting him
for the very first time
353
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,320
and I can tell you now...
354
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:39,560
I was completely underwhelmed.
355
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,600
Most serial killers that I've met
356
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,360
are really silent
and uncommunicative.
357
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,600
Nilsen was the opposite.
358
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,920
Nilsen spoke endlessly about
the murders that he had committed.
359
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,240
Dennis Nilsen
wanted to be in control
360
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,080
and dominant and domineering.
361
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:02,040
He wanted to control his legacy,
362
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,480
he wanted to tell everybody
who Dennis Nilsen was.
363
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,600
He was a true narcissist.
364
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,040
There was my power
and his passivity.
365
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,200
The more passive he could be,
the more powerful I was.
366
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,840
I still feel in a spiritual
communion with these people.
367
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,280
Nilsen was still co-operating
with the police,
368
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,360
but he was playing mind games.
369
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,640
Of the 12 victims
he initially confessed to killing
370
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:32,920
at Melrose Avenue,
371
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,240
he would offer only vague details
as to who some of them were.
372
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,880
He only ever gave the detectives
three full names.
373
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:46,360
Kenneth Ockenden, who went missing
in December, 1979,
374
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,240
Billy Sutherland,
who Nilsen strangled in 1980...
375
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,040
..and finally, Martyn Duffey.
376
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,080
The door went and you came
and you said, "It's the police."
377
00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:06,520
And that's when they said
about Nilsen
378
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,960
and there was a possibility
that Martyn was one of the victims.
379
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,240
Nilsen had befriended
the 16-year-old
380
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,640
the day he arrived in London.
381
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:22,120
Detectives hoped the Duffeys could
identify items found at his flat.
382
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,760
It wasn't easy telling them
the truth about their son,
383
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,000
who'd been a victim of a man who,
at that time,
384
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:29,840
was headline news around the world.
385
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:35,600
Nilsen had taken
a left luggage ticket
386
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,760
from our Martyn... Yeah.
..after he'd killed him.
387
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,800
And went back to Euston
to pick up the property.
388
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,280
Nilsen was using Martyn's briefcase
389
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,680
to take his sandwich
and his newspaper into the office.
390
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,760
That's right, yeah.
391
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,160
Nilsen also used Martyn's
treasured chef's knives.
392
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,880
They had been a gift
from his father.
393
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:03,400
Horrifically, he used the knives
as well to cut the victims up.
394
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:04,680
Of course, yeah.
395
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,040
Martyn's knives, that was a shock.
396
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,520
Nilsen's crimes shocked the world.
397
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,080
He'd confessed to killing
15 young men,
398
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:31,720
but what turned a Mr Ordinary
into a serial killer?
399
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,560
SEAGULLS CRY
400
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,360
Dennis Nilsen was born
just after the Second World War,
401
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,400
in the port town of Fraserburgh
in Scotland.
402
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,360
His parents, Betty and Olaf,
divorced in 1949,
403
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,320
and he became close
to his grandfather.
404
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,520
He told author Brian Masters
405
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,120
that the death of his grandfather
when he was just five years old
406
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,400
had a profound effect on him.
407
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,000
His mother said to him,
"Do you want to see your grandad?"
408
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,240
"Oh, yes."
409
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:12,200
And he went into the dining room
and on the table was a box.
410
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,200
And inside the box
was his grandfather.
411
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,760
Nobody told him anything,
nobody explained it to him.
412
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,240
But I was convinced,
and I put this to him,
413
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:28,840
that his idea of love and his
idea of death fused at that moment.
414
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,440
And thereafter, he always wanted
either to be dead himself,
415
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,240
and he would pretend to be dead,
416
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,880
or, eventually, he got round
to killing people instead.
417
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,600
The making myself look dead
was nothing to do with death itself,
418
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,320
it was making myself look
as different from me
419
00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:48,080
as it was possible to imagine
420
00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,720
so I could really be convincing
as being somebody else.
421
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,480
In 1985, Brian Masters published
his best-selling book,
422
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,160
Killing For Company,
423
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,640
the result of hours of conversations
with Nilsen himself.
424
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,720
He wanted company and he wanted...
425
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,760
erm, especially to have company
which didn't interrupt.
426
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,320
So, eventually,
427
00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:15,200
he fell back on this fantasy
of his grandfather and the dead.
428
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,000
And he would make somebody dead
in order to be able to talk to them.
429
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,840
This was the nearest
he ever got to friendship.
430
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,520
And I think it's tragic
431
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,960
from point of view of the people
he encountered, obviously,
432
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,480
but it's also pretty grim for him.
433
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,480
It's something I just
can't understand, this.
434
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,920
I've tried and I thought about it
and thought about it.
435
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,360
He just must be sick or something.
436
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,720
Because it's not the Dennis I knew
that's doing this, somehow or other.
437
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:56,400
By the age of 15, he was determined
to get away from his family.
438
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:01,040
In June 1961, he enlisted
in the British Army Catering Corps
439
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,400
and was posted to Aldershot.
440
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:12,040
Dennis Nilsen was in the same squad
as me, V Squad.
441
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,800
He was weird.
442
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,760
I say weird for the fact
he had a strange sense of humour,
443
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,240
he was very argumentative.
444
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,680
It was there,
as an apprentice army chef,
445
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,320
that Nilsen learned
how to butcher meat.
446
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:29,600
Kitchen work was to get you ready
for working in the main kitchens,
447
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,200
you learned how to cut up, erm...
448
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:38,760
sides of beef, carcasses of lamb,
sides of pork and so forth.
449
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:44,160
He was very meticulous, actually,
he was a good chef.
450
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,840
I just find it amazing
451
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:53,480
that somebody could actually
commit the crimes he did.
452
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,520
After 11 years in the army,
453
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,960
and only reaching the rank
of corporal,
454
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,800
Nilsen decided he'd had enough.
455
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,160
He moved to London
456
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,640
and eventually joined the Met
as a trainee police officer.
457
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,800
A revelation that initially
shocked detectives -
458
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,480
they were investigating
one of their own.
459
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:20,520
During the interviews it came out
that he had been a police officer.
460
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,520
When I found out that he hadn't made
his two-year probation,
461
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,800
I wasn't too concerned
462
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,960
and I thought that if Nilsen said
he'd resigned,
463
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,160
I would have thought it's more
likely
464
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,520
that he was gently ushered
out the door.
465
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,120
He'd lasted just 12 months,
466
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,280
leaving, he claimed,
because of homophobia.
467
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,240
He joined the Civil Service
as a junior officer at a job centre.
468
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,440
Then the murders began.
469
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,360
Nilsen was preying
on the vulnerable.
470
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,400
Young men he thought
would not be missed.
471
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,560
Sometimes runaways, sex workers.
472
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,160
But one of his victims
was different.
473
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,680
A mistake that could have ended his
killing spree three years earlier.
474
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,440
ARCHIVE: 'On 3rd December 1979,
475
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,920
'Kenneth Ockenden left his hotel
between nine and ten in the morning.
476
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,680
'It was the last time
he was positively seen alive.'
477
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,320
Kenneth Ockenden was a 23-year-old
tourist from Canada,
478
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:30,520
who'd been due to fly home
when he met Nilsen in a pub.
479
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,120
They went sightseeing
around the capital,
480
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,840
then Kenneth disappeared.
481
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,000
It became an international incident,
482
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,040
with the Canadian Prime Minister
calling Margaret Thatcher,
483
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,200
piling on political pressure
for the inquiry to be ramped up.
484
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,920
'Police said there was
a strong possibility
485
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,120
'that Kenneth Ockenden
had been murdered.
486
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,280
'But he did make
one last phone call.
487
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,520
'It was to his uncle in Surrey.
488
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,840
'The call came from
a public call box.
489
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,440
'There was music in the background.'
490
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,000
The police couldn't find him.
491
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,000
And the truth only came to light
492
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,240
when Nilsen was finally caught
three years later.
493
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,760
He'd taken Kenneth back to his flat
in Melrose Avenue,
494
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,840
then strangled him.
495
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,720
He'd kept his body
under the floorboards.
496
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,120
Bringing it out to wash
and dress it,
497
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,880
watching television with the corpse
as company.
498
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,880
Now the investigation team
needed proof.
499
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,240
And they had a lead,
discovered in Nilsen's home.
500
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,040
When they found an A-Z of London,
501
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,800
fingerprint people
took it back to Scotland Yard
502
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,920
and they blasted every page
of this book
503
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,600
and they found a fingerprint,
504
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,760
and that fingerprint identified
Kenneth Ockenden.
505
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,480
Nilsen was charged
with Kenneth Ockenden's murder.
506
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,120
And of another man
police had now identified.
507
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,880
Malcolm Barlow was suffering
from a fit
508
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,560
when Nilsen found him
and helped him get to hospital.
509
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,680
When the 24-year-old returned
to say thank you,
510
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,720
Nilsen invited him into his flat
and strangled him.
511
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,000
He kept Malcolm's body
under his kitchen sink
512
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,160
before burning it
in the back garden.
513
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,320
Five men had complained to police
in the past
514
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,600
that they'd been the victims
of violent attacks by Nilsen.
515
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,640
But their cases had never been
properly followed up.
516
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,440
Now the murder investigation team
needed to track them down.
517
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,760
This was when he was in one
of the hostels in London.
518
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,560
One of those survivors
was 21-year-old Carl Stottor.
519
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,440
JULIE: Carl was a lovely man.
520
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,760
I idolised him.
521
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,320
He had this infectious laugh.
522
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,600
He always used to open his mouth,
very much like Marilyn Monroe.
523
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,400
Chucked his head back and he would
mouth open and laugh.
524
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,000
Julie has never spoken publicly
about what happened to her brother.
525
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,440
He left home
after coming out as gay
526
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,000
and being disowned by his father.
527
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,120
It had a profound effect on him,
and I think the rest of his life,
528
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,640
all he looked out for
was love from another man.
529
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:37,040
In April, 1982, he met Nilsen
in the Black Cap pub in Camden Town.
530
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,440
Nilsen bought him a drink.
531
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,360
When the pub shot, erm,
Dennis Nilsen said,
532
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,840
"Do you want to come back to mine
for a drink?" And he said yes.
533
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,920
Nilsen paid for
the 15-minute taxi ride
534
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,880
back to his top floor flat
in Cranley Gardens.
535
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,640
Nilsen made him a drink,
put some music on.
536
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,400
I think he whispered,
"I'm falling in love with you."
537
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:01,920
He didn't feel very well at all,
538
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,440
and I think that's when
they went to bed early.
539
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,240
And I think Nilsen
had drugged his drink.
540
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,600
I sort of felt his hands,
and at first,
541
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,080
I thought he was sort of, like...
helping me out of it,
542
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,760
but he sort of shouted,
543
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,120
sort of whispered, sort of,
"Keep still."
544
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,800
And I sort of passed out.
545
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,400
Nilsen was trying to kill him.
546
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,040
The next thing Carl new,
he was in the bath.
547
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,440
The thought that went
through my mind was,
548
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,720
"You are drowning,
you are being murdered by this man
549
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,160
"and this is what it feels like,
and you're going to die."
550
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,200
And I thought I was dying.
551
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,160
For some reason, Nilsen stopped.
552
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,280
Instead, he began reviving him.
553
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,000
And I saw my face in the mirror,
554
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,200
and all my tongue was all swollen
and my face was bloated
555
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,960
and I had, like, red blotches
556
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,440
where the blood vessels had burst
in my face
557
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,160
and my neck was all sort of cut
round here.
558
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,600
Nilsen helped a confused
and disorientated Carl
559
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,600
to a nearby tube station.
560
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,800
After getting treatment
at a hospital,
561
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,400
he reported what had happened
to the police.
562
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,720
The police put it down
to a lover's tiff.
563
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,480
Carl, erm, could only remember Des'
first name
564
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,040
and that he lived in Muswell Hill.
565
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,520
So we didn't have enough information
to put a formal complaint in,
566
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,800
but at the same time,
the police didn't take it seriously
567
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,560
because it was in the 1980s
and there was a lot of homophobia
568
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,360
in the police force
and in the country.
569
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,160
Nilsen was question three times,
following different complaints,
570
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,240
but police took no further action.
571
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,680
Nilsen was able
to kill two more young men
572
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,520
after his attack on Carl.
573
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,600
London, 1983.
574
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,680
Murder detectives are trying
to identify the victims
575
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,840
of serial killer
Dennis Andrew Nilsen.
576
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,800
After months of investigations,
the police had only identified
577
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,000
five of 15 men
he confessed to killing.
578
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,480
Nilsen had given them another name -
John from High Wycombe.
579
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,800
After painstakingly
searching records,
580
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,120
detectives confirmed
victim number six as John Howlett.
581
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:38,480
Nilsen had strangled and drowned him
in March 1982.
582
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,240
The team at Melrose Avenue
had also uncovered more objects,
583
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,680
including three dental plates.
584
00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:49,160
Exhibits officer Brian Lodge
585
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,200
thought that they could give them
more names.
586
00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:56,440
I took them to some North London
dental laboratories
587
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,440
and asked if they could say
who they were made by,
588
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,040
or who they were for,
et cetera, et cetera, but...
589
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,280
from what I learned,
they were all made in Germany,
590
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,520
and I suggested to the inquiry
591
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,400
that perhaps enquiries
should be made in Germany.
592
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,600
But by then,
the investigation's overtime bill
593
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,280
was rumoured to be over £1 million.
594
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,520
Brian's request was denied.
595
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,000
That testing was never allowed
and never followed up,
596
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,600
which I thought was rather a shame
597
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,560
because perhaps there were many
families around the country now
598
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,880
who are wondering still
was their son,
599
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:35,680
was their brother, their uncle,
their dad a victim of this man?
600
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:38,120
Something we'll never know,
something they'll never know.
601
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,600
Nilsen's 14th victim, and the last
to be identified at Cranley Gardens,
602
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,960
was Graham Allen from Glasgow.
603
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,440
He was 28 and had a child.
604
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,200
Police had found a jawbone
605
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:55,960
and matched it
to Graham's dental records.
606
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,720
But because it happened
only days before Nilsen's trial,
607
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,440
the murder was never added
to the indictment.
608
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,320
'The Nilsen murder trial
at the Old Bailey
609
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,400
'has entered its closing stages.
Dennis Nilsen is charged
610
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,880
'with six murders
and two attempted murders.'
611
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,960
Nilsen entered a not guilty plea
612
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,160
on the grounds
of diminished responsibility.
613
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,240
The court heard evidence
from three psychologists
614
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,240
about his mental state,
and the prosecution argued
615
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,480
he was in his right mind
when he killed.
616
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,600
The jury agreed.
617
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,000
At the Old Bailey,
Dennis Nilsen has been found guilty
618
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,920
of six murders
and two attempted murders.
619
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,520
He's been jailed for life
with a recommendation
620
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,040
that he should serve
a minimum of 25 years.
621
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,760
Author Brian Masters
was at the court every day.
622
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,640
He believes the jury
came to the right verdict.
623
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,920
He was an intelligent man.
He knew perfectly well
624
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,680
that it was wrong to kill people,
625
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:05,920
but he didn't know
why it mattered so much.
626
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,320
The last victim,
627
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,080
er, he'd cut the head off
628
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,320
before he went to bed and put it
in a cooking pot
629
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:19,640
and put it on to simmer,
and then went to bed.
630
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,800
When he woke up in the morning
to take the dog out for a walk,
631
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,640
the pot was still simmering.
632
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,800
When he came back,
adjusted the flame
633
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,560
to see whether it needed to be
turned up or put down again.
634
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,960
Then he butted a slice of toast
and ate it.
635
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,480
I couldn't do that.
636
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,600
It is not possible
637
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,960
unless you are severely damaged
638
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,400
in your moral sense.
639
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,360
In the early 1990s,
640
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,160
Peter Paul Hartnett
began researching a book
641
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,040
and exchanging letters with him.
642
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,600
He also recorded
some of their conversations.
643
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,680
It's the first time
these have been heard.
644
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,680
Over the years,
I was getting many letters a week.
645
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:36,200
It might be three one week,
five the next,
646
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:41,640
and believe me, they were
a bore of a chore to wake up to,
647
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,240
cos it was page after page.
648
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,320
Nilsen asked him
to edit his autobiography.
649
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,680
What he had written was shocking.
650
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:53,880
He was saying in the manuscript
651
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,400
he had a regret about the murders,
and the regret was
652
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,760
that he hadn't kept body parts
in glasses of formaldehyde -
653
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,920
genitals, a pretty hand.
654
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,160
If Nilsen had had the money,
655
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,960
one of his fantasies
was to have a van
656
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,680
in which he could
pick up hitchhikers,
657
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:20,560
get them in the back of the van,
658
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,040
gas them, and bring them home.
659
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,680
Hartnett declined
to work on the book,
660
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:30,440
and by 2002,
they stopped corresponding.
661
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,120
There were too many triggers.
662
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:39,680
There were things that I had to say,
"I think we need to edit that out."
663
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:43,760
And the one person
you couldn't edit was Nilsen.
664
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,240
Control freak.
665
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,560
In those situations
where a knife is involved,
666
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,080
there's a lot of blood
flying around.
667
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,120
If I was to stab you right now,
or you were to stab me,
668
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:57,280
the heart is pumping away
669
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,560
and there would be blood
splattering all over the place.
670
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,840
In a dead body,
there's no blood spurts
671
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:03,960
or anything like that.
It congeals inside
672
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,760
and forms part of the flesh
673
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,880
and it becomes like anything
in a butcher's shop.
674
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,680
There's little or no blood.
675
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:12,960
During his time
as a prison governor,
676
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,040
David Wilson interviewed Nilsen
a number of times
677
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,640
and studied his motivations.
678
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,560
The reason why Dennis Nilsen killed
679
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:27,200
was because this was an extension
of his sexual fantasy.
680
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:28,840
He killed, therefore,
681
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,320
because it was through those murders
682
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,160
and then what he could do with
the victims after they had died.
683
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,120
Does fantasy shape the reality?
684
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,840
Or does fantasy shape the reality
until the first murder?
685
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,200
And then does fantasy propel the...
the sequence of murders
686
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:50,840
in an evermore dramatic way?
687
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,280
Because once you've engaged
in the reality the first time,
688
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,120
it's no longer fantastic.
689
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,200
The most exciting part
of the little conundrum
690
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:03,840
was when I lifted the body,
carried it.
691
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:09,440
It was an expression of my power
to lift and carry and have control.
692
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:14,280
And the dangling element of limbs
was an expression of his passivity.
693
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,680
Over the course of time,
not only is he killing his victims,
694
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:24,760
he is, erm,
then washing his victims,
695
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,640
he's, erm, propping his victims up
in chairs or on beds.
696
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,720
And although he would deny it,
and did deny it to me,
697
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,080
there is evidence to suggest
that he would engage in necrophilia.
698
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,440
He would have sex
with their dead bodies.
699
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,840
I think there is some indication
about cannibalism,
700
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,560
despite, again,
the fact that he would deny it.
701
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,240
He would trophy take.
702
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,320
He would cut up and keep
some of the victims' body parts
703
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,680
whilst disposing of other parts.
704
00:41:56,720 --> 00:42:00,840
This is somebody who was a complete
and utter failure in his life,
705
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:07,600
and the only way that he could gain
some sense of who he wanted to be
706
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,840
was through killing
and after he had murdered.
707
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:16,080
And that's the ultimate form
of being a loser.
708
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,280
CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING
709
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:24,160
Carl died the day that he found out
Dennis Nilsen tried to kill him.
710
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,880
He had survivor's guilt.
He couldn't understand
711
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,360
why he was saved
and the others weren't.
712
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,440
And he just needed the pain
to go away,
713
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,280
which made him an alcoholic.
714
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,760
Carl Stottor passed away in 2013.
715
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,760
He died alone at the age of 52.
716
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,680
What happened in 1982 haunted him
until the end.
717
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:47,520
His life was horrendous for him.
718
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,040
He lived in his own hell
and his own prison.
719
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,440
But Nilsen's attempt
to kill her brother
720
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,000
also devastated her own family.
721
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:01,640
Three years ago, Julie's oldest son,
Jack, took his own life.
722
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,680
He suffered from depression
723
00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:07,560
and said that he didn't want
to end up like his Uncle Carl.
724
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,120
His personality, the nice side
of him, was like my brother.
725
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:12,840
Jack would hit a depressed spot
726
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,880
and he'd remembered what Nanny
had gone through with Carl
727
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,960
and didn't want to put me
through the same thing.
728
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,920
Dennis Nilsen destroyed my family,
729
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,360
both my son and my brother.
730
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:30,560
Sorry.
731
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,840
Only eight of Nilsen's victims
were ever identified.
732
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,400
The rest remain unknown to this day.
733
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,880
Events like this
can blow families apart,
734
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,080
erm, but for us,
735
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,840
it definitely pulled us
closer together. Yeah.
736
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,040
There's yards and yards
of column inches
737
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,360
given over to Nilsen
and his motivations,
738
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,200
but very little
about the people that he killed.
739
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:42,360
And those people were far more
important than Nilsen will ever be.
740
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,120
The victims are all like
just an afterthought, I suppose.
741
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,840
And because of the way
742
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,560
Martyn certainly,
and most of the others,
743
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,960
were portrayed in the press,
744
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,800
it's very unjust.
745
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,760
Describing all of his victims
as gay, homeless drifters
746
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:04,680
was purely...
747
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:08,360
just a catch-all term to sort of
748
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,160
pigeonhole people into being...
749
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,520
..of less value.
750
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,440
Nothing could be
further from the truth. Mm-hm.
751
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,120
Martyn was part of our family.
752
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,720
He was loved.
Mm.
753
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,720
And we miss him.
754
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,040
Mm. Yeah.
755
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,640
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