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1
00:00:12,053 --> 00:00:13,555
(PHONE RINGING)
2
00:00:14,681 --> 00:00:16,599
(CLANKING)
3
00:00:21,604 --> 00:00:22,647
May I help you?
4
00:00:23,356 --> 00:00:25,150
(CHUCKLES) Yes. Thank you.
5
00:00:25,233 --> 00:00:27,235
I need some replacement electrical tape.
6
00:00:27,569 --> 00:00:30,280
Okay. You bring me the empty
and I'll get you a new roll.
7
00:00:30,363 --> 00:00:31,239
Empty what?
8
00:00:32,198 --> 00:00:35,035
The cardboard core that's left
when you run out of tape.
9
00:00:36,077 --> 00:00:37,412
What? Why?
10
00:00:38,204 --> 00:00:39,622
That's the way we do it.
11
00:00:40,457 --> 00:00:43,376
I can't give you a new one
until we get the old.
12
00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:44,377
Are you kidding me?
13
00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:47,130
No.
14
00:00:49,466 --> 00:00:51,092
(MUTTERS) Whatever, Dennis.
15
00:01:00,226 --> 00:01:02,896
(THEME MUSIC PLAYING)
16
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(DISCO SONG PLAYING)
17
00:02:40,743 --> 00:02:43,663
(OVER PA) This is your captain speaking.
New York City to the Bay Area...
18
00:02:43,746 --> 00:02:46,833
Just, hey, do me a favor.
Don't mention this to me ever again.
19
00:02:46,916 --> 00:02:49,586
- I'm going to.
- It's the insanest idea I've ever heard.
20
00:02:49,669 --> 00:02:51,629
- I'm going to, Bill.
- We have a job to do.
21
00:02:51,713 --> 00:02:54,799
- We are here to teach.
- Chino, California Medical,
22
00:02:54,883 --> 00:02:57,927
California Men's Colony,
Norco, Soledad, San Quentin...
23
00:02:58,011 --> 00:03:01,180
If you'd said to me,
"I want to become a Beach Boy, take up surfing,"
24
00:03:01,264 --> 00:03:03,433
- "...sit around smoking the vibes."
- Folsom.
25
00:03:03,516 --> 00:03:05,226
Or, "I want to make it in the movies."
26
00:03:05,310 --> 00:03:07,729
"Gonna get me a walk-up in West Hollywood
and a Pekingese."
27
00:03:07,812 --> 00:03:10,440
Manson is 30 miles away in Vacaville.
28
00:03:10,523 --> 00:03:12,108
A hop, skip, and a jump.
29
00:03:12,483 --> 00:03:14,819
- You really wanna meet Charlie Manson?
- Why not?
30
00:03:14,903 --> 00:03:16,704
- FLIGHT ATTENDANT: Sir.
- Swing by and say hi.
31
00:03:16,779 --> 00:03:17,697
Yeah.
32
00:03:18,615 --> 00:03:19,532
Thank you.
33
00:03:21,409 --> 00:03:23,953
Nobody wants to hear
about that crazy motherfucker.
34
00:03:24,037 --> 00:03:25,121
You know this.
35
00:03:25,204 --> 00:03:28,124
WOMAN: (OVER PA) Welcome to San Francisco.
Please remain seated...
36
00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:31,878
Besides, when are you gonna find time
for these fireside chats, Holden?
37
00:03:34,297 --> 00:03:35,340
I'll figure it out.
38
00:03:39,219 --> 00:03:41,012
TENCH: Nobody can talk to Manson.
39
00:03:41,095 --> 00:03:43,806
Tom Snyder's been trying to interview him
for years.
40
00:03:43,890 --> 00:03:46,142
We're the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
41
00:03:46,226 --> 00:03:48,436
What if his civil rights
are being violated?
42
00:03:48,895 --> 00:03:50,438
Please just get in the car.
43
00:04:11,834 --> 00:04:15,255
TENCH: In California every year,
35 percent of murders go unsolved.
44
00:04:15,964 --> 00:04:18,675
That's more unsolved murders
than in any other state.
45
00:04:18,758 --> 00:04:20,510
It's partly due to geography.
46
00:04:20,593 --> 00:04:22,720
In the woods, in the mountains,
47
00:04:22,804 --> 00:04:24,847
- ...ravines, hiking trails...
- You can't get to Manson,
48
00:04:24,931 --> 00:04:27,350
- ...even if you're a fed.
- (SIGHS)
49
00:04:27,433 --> 00:04:29,852
CMF treats him like a fucking unicorn.
50
00:04:29,936 --> 00:04:33,273
No one needs to think about psychology
more than the people in Santa Cruz.
51
00:04:34,148 --> 00:04:37,986
- In a homicide situation...
- If you go to Vacaville, meet Ed Kemper.
52
00:04:38,069 --> 00:04:41,948
- TENCH: What happened that triggered him?
- Give me that name again.
53
00:04:42,031 --> 00:04:45,535
Kemper. Ed Kemper.
They call him the "Coed Killer."
54
00:04:45,618 --> 00:04:48,997
TENCH: What about when even the killer
doesn't know why he behaved as he did?
55
00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,833
You can't miss the guy.
He's like six foot nine, 285 pounds.
56
00:04:51,916 --> 00:04:53,501
- Whoa. King-size.
- Super king.
57
00:04:53,584 --> 00:04:57,297
- TENCH: Violent murder used to be...
- Killed a bunch of coeds in Santa Cruz.
58
00:04:57,380 --> 00:05:00,621
Six teenage girls, chops their heads off,
has sexual intercourse with the corpses.
59
00:05:00,633 --> 00:05:02,844
- Oh...
- Kills his mom with a claw hammer,
60
00:05:02,927 --> 00:05:04,804
...has sexual intercourse with her head.
61
00:05:04,887 --> 00:05:06,931
- Bullshit.
- In her mouth.
62
00:05:07,307 --> 00:05:08,474
- No.
- Yeah.
63
00:05:08,558 --> 00:05:11,644
TENCH: When strangers murder strangers
for no apparent reason...
64
00:05:11,728 --> 00:05:14,647
He was in a mental institution
right up until then too.
65
00:05:14,731 --> 00:05:17,817
He's a total whack job. He was murdering
his grandparents at the age of 15,
66
00:05:17,900 --> 00:05:21,446
...but then he manages to convince everyone
that he's completely rehabilitated.
67
00:05:21,529 --> 00:05:22,405
Oh, my God.
68
00:05:22,488 --> 00:05:25,616
In many of these crimes,
the motives are not just obscure...
69
00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:28,703
Jim Conor knew him real well.
I'll introduce you.
70
00:05:28,786 --> 00:05:30,121
- Really?
- Yeah.
71
00:05:30,204 --> 00:05:32,832
- ...borderline unfathomable.
- Thank you.
72
00:05:33,791 --> 00:05:36,377
CONOR: Used to call him Big Ed.
Everybody here knew him.
73
00:05:36,961 --> 00:05:40,715
- Was he an informant?
- No, but he was smart. He was funny.
74
00:05:41,257 --> 00:05:45,261
He used to watch all the cop shows on TV.
Crazy about Wambaugh and Police Story.
75
00:05:45,344 --> 00:05:47,764
MOLINA: He wanted to be CHP,
but it didn't work out.
76
00:05:47,847 --> 00:05:50,683
He would joke that they could conceal
his psychiatric record...
77
00:05:50,767 --> 00:05:51,934
...but not his fat ass.
78
00:05:52,602 --> 00:05:54,687
(LAUGHS) Stupid shit like that.
79
00:05:55,354 --> 00:05:57,648
Guys like him
always want to be in uniform.
80
00:05:57,732 --> 00:06:00,151
Losers. Losers are drawn to authority.
81
00:06:00,234 --> 00:06:02,570
Nobody wants to admit it,
but losers are useful.
82
00:06:02,653 --> 00:06:04,530
- Why?
- CONOR: They're nosy.
83
00:06:04,614 --> 00:06:08,284
They know what everybody else is up to.
And they're resentful, a lot of 'em.
84
00:06:08,367 --> 00:06:10,703
- They always got a raw deal.
- Ed was a busybody.
85
00:06:11,287 --> 00:06:13,206
And this was before you knew
about the killings?
86
00:06:13,289 --> 00:06:16,042
Oh, we knew about 'em,
just hadn't connected them with him.
87
00:06:16,125 --> 00:06:19,170
- He kept asking about them, though.
- And you didn't suspect him?
88
00:06:21,881 --> 00:06:22,882
CONOR: What?
89
00:06:22,965 --> 00:06:25,051
"What?" You liked the guy.
90
00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:29,764
- Let's say he was a friendly nuisance.
- Oh, come on.
91
00:06:29,847 --> 00:06:32,600
- He was hard not to like.
- So you were the arresting officer?
92
00:06:32,683 --> 00:06:35,686
In the end,
he lit out to Pueblo, Colorado,
93
00:06:35,770 --> 00:06:37,939
...expecting there to be
some kind of manhunt.
94
00:06:38,439 --> 00:06:42,360
When nobody came, he got sick of waiting
and decided to turn himself in.
95
00:06:43,027 --> 00:06:45,488
Called from a pay phone. Confessed!
96
00:06:46,197 --> 00:06:49,283
We thought he was bullshitting.
I drove him all the way back.
97
00:06:49,367 --> 00:06:53,287
He wouldn't stop yakking.
Going into forensic detail.
98
00:06:53,371 --> 00:06:54,872
I thought I hit the jackpot.
99
00:06:54,956 --> 00:06:58,292
After a few hours,
I'm like, "Oh, God, please. Enough!"
100
00:06:58,376 --> 00:07:00,086
You think Kemper would talk to us?
101
00:07:00,878 --> 00:07:02,421
Try stopping him.
102
00:07:02,505 --> 00:07:03,673
Who's "us," kemosabe?
103
00:07:08,052 --> 00:07:10,179
REPORTER: David Berkowitz, 24.
104
00:07:10,263 --> 00:07:13,850
Spent his days sorting letters
at the post office so he could...
105
00:07:13,933 --> 00:07:14,767
What?
106
00:07:15,351 --> 00:07:17,019
Really, what are you expecting to learn?
107
00:07:17,603 --> 00:07:19,981
A killer who can't stop talking?
It's a gift.
108
00:07:20,064 --> 00:07:21,023
A gift, huh?
109
00:07:21,691 --> 00:07:23,901
He made a severed head
perform fellatio on him.
110
00:07:24,610 --> 00:07:27,363
His third victim
was a 15-year-old child, Holden.
111
00:07:29,490 --> 00:07:30,491
You don't want to talk?
112
00:07:30,575 --> 00:07:33,536
So, basically, you just got me out here
to carry your slide projector?
113
00:07:33,619 --> 00:07:36,706
To help with the workload, yeah.
The work we're sanctioned to do.
114
00:07:36,789 --> 00:07:39,792
Kemper doesn't interest you
or is beneath you somehow?
115
00:07:39,876 --> 00:07:40,960
A little of both.
116
00:07:41,586 --> 00:07:44,088
- This is the man...
- HOLDEN: Think the tie's too much?
117
00:07:44,839 --> 00:07:45,923
What about the suit?
118
00:07:46,007 --> 00:07:48,634
Anybody finds out you're a fed,
there'll be a riot.
119
00:07:48,801 --> 00:07:51,137
Shepard finds out
you've been interviewing the Coed Killer...
120
00:07:51,220 --> 00:07:52,847
...as a side project, he'll flip his shit.
121
00:07:52,930 --> 00:07:55,475
It's easier to ask forgiveness
than permission.
122
00:07:55,558 --> 00:07:57,810
(SIGHS) Okay.
123
00:07:59,145 --> 00:08:02,690
If you're gonna go in,
you need to go in stone goddamn cold,
124
00:08:02,773 --> 00:08:05,776
...take him by surprise,
get the fuck out as quick as possible.
125
00:08:05,860 --> 00:08:06,694
Good advice.
126
00:08:06,777 --> 00:08:10,573
Straight in there, don't phone,
don't give them a chance to ask around.
127
00:08:10,656 --> 00:08:11,741
I'm a buddy of Jim Conor's.
128
00:08:12,325 --> 00:08:15,661
"Jim Conor reached out," you bet.
"He sends his regards."
129
00:08:15,745 --> 00:08:17,914
"I stopped by the Jury Room for a drink."
130
00:08:17,997 --> 00:08:20,583
"The guys all say..." Blah, blah, blah.
131
00:08:20,666 --> 00:08:23,294
- "Can I call you Big Ed?"
- I wouldn't mention the killings.
132
00:08:23,377 --> 00:08:25,546
You're not there
because he's a necrophile degenerate.
133
00:08:25,630 --> 00:08:27,965
You're there because he's... fascinating.
134
00:08:28,049 --> 00:08:29,759
How do I not mention the killings?
135
00:08:30,384 --> 00:08:31,427
Just take it slow.
136
00:08:33,346 --> 00:08:35,806
- What are you doing?
- Just in case.
137
00:08:35,890 --> 00:08:37,850
They're not gonna let you in
with a sidearm.
138
00:08:37,934 --> 00:08:40,770
The guy is six foot nine,
weighs 300 pounds.
139
00:08:40,853 --> 00:08:42,939
- That's right.
- So what's he gonna do?
140
00:08:43,022 --> 00:08:45,733
He's gonna take the fucking thing away,
kill you with it,
141
00:08:45,816 --> 00:08:47,902
...and then have sex with your face.
142
00:08:53,449 --> 00:08:54,992
(METAL CLANKING)
143
00:09:03,334 --> 00:09:04,377
Hold it, guys.
144
00:09:09,715 --> 00:09:11,968
- You're clear.
- HOLDEN: I don't want to spoil your fun.
145
00:09:12,051 --> 00:09:13,844
- I'm good. Nine is fine.
- (BUZZER SOUNDS)
146
00:09:13,928 --> 00:09:15,846
You could come. Take notes.
147
00:09:15,930 --> 00:09:18,182
You take notes,
I'll help you write 'em up.
148
00:09:18,266 --> 00:09:19,809
You're really gonna go golfing...
149
00:09:19,892 --> 00:09:22,937
...while I glean profound insights
from the Coed Killer?
150
00:09:23,020 --> 00:09:24,981
- It's my day off.
- You're gonna be sorry.
151
00:09:25,064 --> 00:09:26,482
No. You're gonna be sorry, Holden,
152
00:09:26,566 --> 00:09:29,527
...when he decides you're using him
and there's nothing in it for good old Ed.
153
00:09:29,610 --> 00:09:30,987
- I think there is.
- What?
154
00:09:31,529 --> 00:09:34,949
He's going to be part of something
instead of rotting inside a cell.
155
00:09:35,032 --> 00:09:37,368
Part of what? We're not even here.
156
00:09:37,868 --> 00:09:40,162
(BELL RINGS)
157
00:09:40,246 --> 00:09:41,080
All right.
158
00:09:47,712 --> 00:09:50,047
MAN: I must respectfully ask
for your badge and firearm.
159
00:09:53,217 --> 00:09:54,468
Yes, sir.
160
00:10:02,184 --> 00:10:04,562
In addition,
I have some paperwork for you to sign.
161
00:10:04,645 --> 00:10:08,232
A disclaimer that states in the event
of your death, or if you're taken hostage,
162
00:10:08,316 --> 00:10:11,236
...attacked, assaulted, or otherwise abused
within the correctional facility,
163
00:10:11,319 --> 00:10:14,572
...the United States government
forswears any and all liability.
164
00:10:15,906 --> 00:10:18,701
Oh. (CLICKS TONGUE) Okay.
165
00:10:23,414 --> 00:10:24,874
(BUZZER SOUNDS)
166
00:10:29,837 --> 00:10:31,589
(BUZZER SOUNDS)
167
00:10:38,262 --> 00:10:41,891
(INDISTINCT CHATTER, SHOUTING)
168
00:10:47,313 --> 00:10:48,648
MAN 1: Kiss my ass!
169
00:10:59,408 --> 00:11:01,494
MAN 2: Hey, boy,
bring that shit over here!
170
00:11:01,577 --> 00:11:02,578
MAN 3: Bitch!
171
00:11:05,039 --> 00:11:07,541
(SHOUTING, CHATTER CONTINUES)
172
00:11:09,168 --> 00:11:12,088
(MAN SCREAMING)
173
00:11:18,386 --> 00:11:21,764
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
174
00:11:31,482 --> 00:11:32,733
(KEYS JANGLE)
175
00:11:45,496 --> 00:11:47,540
Can we unlock the...
176
00:11:47,623 --> 00:11:49,500
No, those stay on. They're regulation.
177
00:11:50,668 --> 00:11:53,003
I think that's gonna be
a little awkward.
178
00:11:54,964 --> 00:11:56,132
You're FBI.
179
00:12:03,806 --> 00:12:06,392
- Okay. You're all set.
- Thanks, Jim.
180
00:12:06,475 --> 00:12:08,227
- JIM: I'll see ya later.
- Later.
181
00:12:10,396 --> 00:12:12,690
(DOOR LOCKS)
182
00:12:16,485 --> 00:12:17,570
Holden, right?
183
00:12:20,406 --> 00:12:22,283
- Edward.
- Edmund.
184
00:12:22,366 --> 00:12:24,869
- Oh, I'm sorry. I assumed that it was...
- Are you tired?
185
00:12:24,952 --> 00:12:26,287
How could you tell?
186
00:12:26,370 --> 00:12:28,831
It's a beautiful drive, but it's long.
187
00:12:30,499 --> 00:12:33,335
Edmund was my mom's idea,
so you can call me Ed.
188
00:12:36,589 --> 00:12:37,631
Sure thing.
189
00:12:39,842 --> 00:12:41,343
So how can I help?
190
00:12:42,928 --> 00:12:44,763
Okay. Um...
191
00:12:46,390 --> 00:12:50,186
I'm an instructor working out of
the Behavioral Science Unit at Quantico,
192
00:12:50,269 --> 00:12:51,437
...and I had this idea...
193
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:52,980
Have you had breakfast?
194
00:12:53,063 --> 00:12:55,483
Can I get you something?
You want a sandwich?
195
00:12:56,066 --> 00:12:58,861
- No, I'm okay.
- What kind of sandwich you like?
196
00:13:00,154 --> 00:13:04,200
- Um... I'm good.
- You want an egg salad sandwich?
197
00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:08,120
- I'm fine. Really.
- I'll get us an egg salad sandwich.
198
00:13:08,204 --> 00:13:10,915
I can get almost anything you want
from the canteen.
199
00:13:16,212 --> 00:13:17,213
Okay.
200
00:13:18,756 --> 00:13:21,383
- Do you have tuna?
- Oh, the egg salad's better.
201
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,094
- Hey, Jim?
- JIM: Yeah, Ed?
202
00:13:24,178 --> 00:13:27,389
ED: Have you seen Mitch this morning?
You think you can find him for me?
203
00:13:29,141 --> 00:13:30,351
(HOLDEN CLEARS THROAT)
204
00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:33,521
- Good, huh?
- Mmm!
205
00:13:34,063 --> 00:13:35,397
These guys are great.
206
00:13:35,481 --> 00:13:38,776
I've been here five years.
We just clicked right off the bat.
207
00:13:40,110 --> 00:13:41,320
You like the guards?
208
00:13:42,488 --> 00:13:44,156
Well, they like me. I'm polite.
209
00:13:44,782 --> 00:13:49,870
You know, I heard that you used to drink
at the Jury Room.
210
00:13:50,412 --> 00:13:52,164
You mean in Santa Cruz?
211
00:13:52,665 --> 00:13:54,917
Yeah, those are good guys.
212
00:13:55,834 --> 00:13:58,587
I applied to California Highway Patrol.
213
00:13:58,671 --> 00:14:03,175
My mom spoke to the cops
to get my psychiatric record expunged.
214
00:14:03,259 --> 00:14:07,429
Turns out my record didn't bother them
at all, I was just too tall.
215
00:14:07,513 --> 00:14:11,725
Too tall? (LAUGHS)
I've heard of being too short, but...
216
00:14:13,936 --> 00:14:14,937
What?
217
00:14:15,020 --> 00:14:16,897
Nothing. It just seems...
218
00:14:16,981 --> 00:14:18,566
You think they lied to me?
219
00:14:20,651 --> 00:14:21,485
No.
220
00:14:22,945 --> 00:14:26,115
Well, cops like me
because they can talk to me...
221
00:14:27,032 --> 00:14:29,952
...more than they can talk
to their own wives, some of them.
222
00:14:30,035 --> 00:14:31,579
Really? What do you talk about?
223
00:14:32,121 --> 00:14:33,581
You know, books, movies.
224
00:14:33,664 --> 00:14:36,584
I watch all the cop shows on TV.
225
00:14:36,667 --> 00:14:37,793
Do you know, uh...
226
00:14:39,211 --> 00:14:42,131
Joseph Wambaugh, Police Story?
You ever watch that?
227
00:14:42,214 --> 00:14:43,465
- (LAUGHS) Huge fan.
- Oh.
228
00:14:43,549 --> 00:14:46,552
I got a lot of my insights right there.
229
00:14:46,635 --> 00:14:47,511
Really?
230
00:14:48,888 --> 00:14:50,180
What kind of insights?
231
00:14:50,264 --> 00:14:52,141
Well, so, for example, with cops,
232
00:14:52,224 --> 00:14:54,810
I would not allow myself
to walk into a trap...
233
00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:58,689
...because I knew exactly how their minds
worked from watching Wambaugh.
234
00:14:58,772 --> 00:15:00,524
What kind of trap are you talking about?
235
00:15:00,608 --> 00:15:02,985
The classic is talking too much
about the crimes.
236
00:15:03,068 --> 00:15:04,111
Over-interest.
237
00:15:04,653 --> 00:15:06,488
You have to remain casual.
238
00:15:07,072 --> 00:15:09,575
They tried everything to trick me.
I'm too savvy.
239
00:15:09,658 --> 00:15:11,619
I don't fucking talk, period.
240
00:15:13,746 --> 00:15:15,539
Really? That's interesting.
241
00:15:15,623 --> 00:15:16,457
So...
242
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,543
...you had this idea?
243
00:15:19,627 --> 00:15:20,753
Yes. Uh, yes.
244
00:15:23,047 --> 00:15:24,173
It's kind of, uh...
245
00:15:27,509 --> 00:15:30,012
Well, it's more of a research thing.
246
00:15:30,095 --> 00:15:31,096
Research.
247
00:15:31,764 --> 00:15:33,349
Just a series of interviews,
248
00:15:33,891 --> 00:15:35,100
...chatting with...
249
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:39,438
...individuals not unlike yourself.
250
00:15:40,606 --> 00:15:42,066
We're just talking?
251
00:15:43,233 --> 00:15:45,945
I don't get to go someplace,
do a bunch of tests?
252
00:15:46,028 --> 00:15:48,238
No. Yeah, no tests. Just right here.
253
00:15:48,781 --> 00:15:49,615
Why?
254
00:15:50,199 --> 00:15:52,493
Well, because I believe
it could be useful.
255
00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:55,371
Talking about what?
256
00:15:55,913 --> 00:15:57,206
Well, I don't know.
257
00:15:59,291 --> 00:16:00,209
Your...
258
00:16:01,293 --> 00:16:03,379
...behavior, I guess.
259
00:16:05,381 --> 00:16:06,632
If you want to, that is.
260
00:16:06,715 --> 00:16:10,386
We don't have to talk about
anything at all if you don't want to.
261
00:16:11,845 --> 00:16:13,722
Why are you so tense?
262
00:16:13,806 --> 00:16:14,723
HOLDEN: Hm?
263
00:16:15,224 --> 00:16:16,976
You're tense, right now.
264
00:16:17,601 --> 00:16:19,061
No, I'm not tense.
265
00:16:21,397 --> 00:16:24,108
Well, I'll be honest,
I don't get many visitors.
266
00:16:24,191 --> 00:16:27,486
When I do, you think
they want to talk about this shit?
267
00:16:28,028 --> 00:16:31,115
Fuck no. It's like if you worked
at a slaughterhouse with livestock,
268
00:16:31,198 --> 00:16:33,033
...real conversation stopper.
269
00:16:33,617 --> 00:16:34,451
Did you?
270
00:16:34,535 --> 00:16:36,328
No, I'm just saying...
271
00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:39,790
People who hunt other people
for a vocation,
272
00:16:39,873 --> 00:16:42,751
...all we want to talk about
is what it's like.
273
00:16:43,252 --> 00:16:46,255
The shit that went down.
The entire fucked-upness of it.
274
00:16:47,297 --> 00:16:48,465
Right, sure.
275
00:16:49,466 --> 00:16:52,094
It's not easy.
Butchering people is hard work.
276
00:16:52,803 --> 00:16:56,223
Physically and mentally.
I don't think people realize.
277
00:16:56,306 --> 00:16:57,599
You need to vent.
278
00:16:59,727 --> 00:17:01,353
What are you writing down?
279
00:17:01,437 --> 00:17:05,733
Oh, I just think it's an interesting
choice of words, "vocation."
280
00:17:07,276 --> 00:17:08,861
Well, what would you call it?
281
00:17:09,987 --> 00:17:12,781
A hobby? I'd say it's more than that.
282
00:17:13,449 --> 00:17:17,619
Look at the consequences.
The stakes are very high.
283
00:17:21,582 --> 00:17:24,043
Is this helping?
Are you getting what you came for?
284
00:17:24,126 --> 00:17:25,544
- I think.
- Good.
285
00:17:25,627 --> 00:17:27,546
Can I... Could I just ask you something?
286
00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:31,050
Do you believe that prison can help you?
287
00:17:31,633 --> 00:17:32,634
Are you kidding?
288
00:17:33,177 --> 00:17:35,637
You think you shouldn't be in prison?
289
00:17:35,721 --> 00:17:39,683
I think it's shutting the barn door
after the horse has bolted, somewhat.
290
00:17:40,184 --> 00:17:42,811
What do you think
the state should do with you instead?
291
00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:46,398
Well, Holden,
a lobotomy's not out of the question.
292
00:17:46,482 --> 00:17:47,691
Lobotomy?
293
00:17:47,775 --> 00:17:49,234
Like Frances Farmer.
294
00:17:49,735 --> 00:17:52,279
- You remember Frances Farmer?
- No.
295
00:17:52,362 --> 00:17:54,782
I loved Frances Farmer.
She was an actress.
296
00:17:55,199 --> 00:17:57,034
They lobotomized her in the '50s.
297
00:17:57,117 --> 00:18:02,748
She was very smart and intense...
very misunderstood. She was a lot like me.
298
00:18:02,831 --> 00:18:05,334
You don't think you could benefit
from psychiatry?
299
00:18:05,626 --> 00:18:08,629
I already did all that in the institution.
300
00:18:10,339 --> 00:18:11,507
It didn't take.
301
00:18:12,925 --> 00:18:16,011
For me, I think surgery
might give me the best chance.
302
00:18:16,095 --> 00:18:19,473
And if surgery doesn't... take,
303
00:18:19,932 --> 00:18:24,686
...in this modern society, what do we do
with the Ed Kempers of the world?
304
00:18:25,312 --> 00:18:27,106
Well, isn't that your department?
305
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,735
From your perspective.
306
00:18:37,324 --> 00:18:38,700
Death by torture?
307
00:18:58,011 --> 00:19:00,681
ED: So what are you not telling me?
308
00:19:01,265 --> 00:19:03,684
Why do you keep looking at me like that?
309
00:19:03,767 --> 00:19:05,936
- Like what?
- Funny.
310
00:19:06,019 --> 00:19:08,981
You keep looking at me
like I'm a specimen.
311
00:19:10,732 --> 00:19:12,317
(SIGHS) Well, to be honest...
312
00:19:14,069 --> 00:19:16,321
It's just you seem like a nice,
ordinary...
313
00:19:17,614 --> 00:19:21,160
It's difficult for me to square you
with what you're in prison for.
314
00:19:22,452 --> 00:19:23,370
Oh.
315
00:19:24,246 --> 00:19:25,289
Well, sure.
316
00:19:28,083 --> 00:19:31,336
I was a regular guy most of my life,
317
00:19:31,420 --> 00:19:33,755
...with a nice home, nice suburb.
318
00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:35,841
I had pets, I went to a good school.
319
00:19:35,924 --> 00:19:39,970
I was a thoughtful, educated,
well brought up young person.
320
00:19:40,053 --> 00:19:41,805
There's no question about it.
321
00:19:42,681 --> 00:19:43,515
But...
322
00:19:45,184 --> 00:19:46,685
...at the same time...
323
00:19:47,561 --> 00:19:51,732
I was living a vile, depraved,
entirely parallel other life...
324
00:19:51,815 --> 00:19:55,986
...filled with debased violence and mayhem,
and fear, and death.
325
00:19:56,069 --> 00:19:57,029
Well...
326
00:19:57,821 --> 00:20:02,618
...it certainly seems to me
like you had your own unusual...
327
00:20:03,994 --> 00:20:06,038
An unusual MO. Oh, sure.
328
00:20:06,121 --> 00:20:08,582
Well, I was gonna say...
329
00:20:09,249 --> 00:20:10,292
...signature.
330
00:20:11,001 --> 00:20:12,628
An oeuvre, if you will.
331
00:20:13,253 --> 00:20:14,755
You could study it.
332
00:20:16,924 --> 00:20:19,134
You can spell oeuvre, can't you, Holden?
333
00:20:21,553 --> 00:20:23,764
You know, there's a lot more like me.
334
00:20:26,225 --> 00:20:27,267
Do you think so?
335
00:20:28,185 --> 00:20:29,895
People that kill in sequence like you did?
336
00:20:29,978 --> 00:20:31,980
- Sequence?
- One right after another.
337
00:20:32,522 --> 00:20:33,607
At regular intervals.
338
00:20:33,690 --> 00:20:35,234
I've just been calling them...
339
00:20:36,193 --> 00:20:37,819
"...sequence killers..."
340
00:20:38,654 --> 00:20:39,655
...if you will.
341
00:20:40,113 --> 00:20:42,699
- How many would you say?
- Well...
342
00:20:44,785 --> 00:20:46,411
...it would be a guess,
343
00:20:46,495 --> 00:20:48,956
...but I'd say right now...
344
00:20:51,166 --> 00:20:53,877
North America, more than 35.
345
00:20:53,961 --> 00:20:55,003
Thirty-five?
346
00:20:55,087 --> 00:20:59,132
But you're never gonna find them
if they don't want you to. Not even close.
347
00:21:00,467 --> 00:21:01,802
That can't be right.
348
00:21:01,885 --> 00:21:05,097
Well, Holden, I'm not an expert.
I'm not an authority.
349
00:21:05,681 --> 00:21:08,809
I'm just
an extremely accomplished murderer...
350
00:21:08,892 --> 00:21:12,646
...who spent my adult life
successfully evading capture...
351
00:21:13,689 --> 00:21:17,276
...until I gave myself up
because I despaired of ever being caught.
352
00:21:19,194 --> 00:21:20,779
So take it or leave it.
353
00:21:22,239 --> 00:21:23,490
What do you want from me?
354
00:21:23,991 --> 00:21:24,950
(SIGHS)
355
00:21:26,743 --> 00:21:28,036
I have no idea.
356
00:21:28,829 --> 00:21:32,249
His oeuvre?
What the fuck? He's Stanley Kubrick?
357
00:21:32,332 --> 00:21:34,668
He was extremely talkative.
358
00:21:34,751 --> 00:21:37,963
He likes talking to cops.
He's lonely. He could do it all day.
359
00:21:38,046 --> 00:21:40,549
He's not some frenzied thrill killer,
Bill.
360
00:21:41,383 --> 00:21:42,926
I think we need to face that.
361
00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:46,680
He chopped off women's heads
and had sex with their corpses.
362
00:21:46,763 --> 00:21:48,807
If that's not frenzied,
I don't know what is.
363
00:21:48,890 --> 00:21:50,058
He is so articulate.
364
00:21:50,642 --> 00:21:54,604
He's meticulous and highly intelligent.
365
00:21:54,688 --> 00:21:59,401
Yeah, he meticulously chose small, young,
female prey who couldn't fight back.
366
00:21:59,901 --> 00:22:01,028
Animal cunning.
367
00:22:01,111 --> 00:22:04,197
He's self-aware and objective.
Isn't that highly unusual?
368
00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:05,882
He's saying everything you want to hear,
369
00:22:05,907 --> 00:22:08,285
...just like he did with the shrinks
in the institution.
370
00:22:08,368 --> 00:22:11,121
He knew just enough to talk his way out,
then went hunting.
371
00:22:11,204 --> 00:22:14,082
- Don't be stupid about this.
- What makes you so sure I'm being stupid?
372
00:22:14,166 --> 00:22:15,500
I know these fuckers.
373
00:22:15,584 --> 00:22:18,420
It's only a matter of time
before he hits you up for privileges.
374
00:22:18,503 --> 00:22:21,340
- Next, he's complaining to the warden...
- Come with me next weekend.
375
00:22:21,423 --> 00:22:24,801
- See for yourself.
- No, I'm not gonna do that.
376
00:22:24,885 --> 00:22:26,470
You're just going to play golf?
377
00:22:27,304 --> 00:22:30,223
It helps me think clearly.
You might want to try it.
378
00:22:32,934 --> 00:22:35,979
- (PANTING) Oh, yeah. Up a little.
- HOLDEN: Uh-huh.
379
00:22:38,231 --> 00:22:41,485
- Over a little. Left.
- My left or your left?
380
00:22:41,568 --> 00:22:42,611
My left.
381
00:22:43,779 --> 00:22:44,946
(PANTING)
382
00:22:45,822 --> 00:22:46,698
This okay?
383
00:22:46,782 --> 00:22:48,241
It's fine. What's wrong?
384
00:22:48,325 --> 00:22:50,619
- You want a break?
- Why would I want a break?
385
00:22:50,702 --> 00:22:52,621
- That's not how it works.
- All right.
386
00:22:52,871 --> 00:22:56,124
You want me to throw in something?
Play with your nipples?
387
00:22:56,208 --> 00:22:57,959
- Why?
- Move it along.
388
00:22:58,043 --> 00:23:00,670
- You're doing great. Just stop stopping.
- Okay.
389
00:23:00,754 --> 00:23:03,757
(MOANING)
390
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,133
He knows more about lust murder...
391
00:23:05,217 --> 00:23:07,511
...than the whole
FBI Behavioral Science Unit.
392
00:23:07,594 --> 00:23:10,514
- We should put him on the payroll.
- Would the FBI ever do that?
393
00:23:10,597 --> 00:23:11,640
Doubtful.
394
00:23:11,723 --> 00:23:14,601
Everyone's freaked out
that Berkowitz might sell his life story.
395
00:23:14,684 --> 00:23:17,437
New York State is moving
to make that sort of thing illegal.
396
00:23:17,521 --> 00:23:19,606
It'd be awful
for the families of the victims.
397
00:23:19,689 --> 00:23:21,316
- WAITRESS: What can I get you?
- Hi.
398
00:23:21,399 --> 00:23:23,777
Uh, can I get two eggs over medium,
399
00:23:23,860 --> 00:23:26,947
...home-fried potatoes,
and wheat toast with grape jelly?
400
00:23:27,030 --> 00:23:28,865
- And for you?
- Uh...
401
00:23:28,949 --> 00:23:31,660
- I'll just have an Ed salad sandwich...
- A what?
402
00:23:31,743 --> 00:23:35,497
- An egg salad sandwich. Thank you.
- Holden, you don't even like egg salad.
403
00:23:35,580 --> 00:23:38,333
- WAITRESS: Thank you.
- Right. Um...
404
00:23:38,416 --> 00:23:40,001
I'll just have a Denver omelet.
405
00:23:41,419 --> 00:23:44,548
You've got mention-itis.
You cannot stop mentioning him.
406
00:23:44,631 --> 00:23:47,426
Think of how much we can learn
from a guy like Kemper.
407
00:23:48,176 --> 00:23:50,095
He called it a vocation.
408
00:23:50,178 --> 00:23:51,096
- Killing women?
- Yeah.
409
00:23:51,179 --> 00:23:53,890
Jesus. How do you wrap your mind
around that?
410
00:23:54,975 --> 00:23:56,434
Couldn't attract them.
411
00:23:56,518 --> 00:23:58,186
Didn't have the social skills.
412
00:23:58,270 --> 00:24:00,063
That would describe a lot of guys.
413
00:24:01,565 --> 00:24:02,983
Why does he hate women?
414
00:24:03,483 --> 00:24:04,818
I should ask.
415
00:24:04,901 --> 00:24:07,612
- But not outright.
- No?
416
00:24:07,696 --> 00:24:10,991
He sounds like the kind of person
who would tell you what you wanna hear.
417
00:24:11,074 --> 00:24:13,785
- You have to disarm him first.
- You mean, like...
418
00:24:14,911 --> 00:24:17,747
- What?
- Ask him questions about himself.
419
00:24:18,748 --> 00:24:21,877
Lean into him, listen intently.
420
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,713
- I do that.
- Keep your arms uncrossed.
421
00:24:25,422 --> 00:24:27,465
Mirror his movements.
422
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,178
Encourage him to talk
about the things he's excited about.
423
00:24:31,261 --> 00:24:33,180
Are these feminine wiles?
424
00:24:33,263 --> 00:24:35,473
Cross your legs in his direction.
425
00:24:36,641 --> 00:24:39,060
- Do you really do that?
- But don't touch him.
426
00:24:39,936 --> 00:24:41,521
You want him to like you,
427
00:24:42,063 --> 00:24:44,649
...but you don't want him to think
you're gonna fuck him.
428
00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:50,030
(LAUGHING) Look at your face.
429
00:24:54,743 --> 00:24:58,747
(INDISTINCT CHATTER, SHOUTING)
430
00:24:58,830 --> 00:24:59,911
HOLDEN: Here's the thing.
431
00:24:59,956 --> 00:25:03,376
I spent five years as a brick agent
and a couple of years at the academy.
432
00:25:04,169 --> 00:25:05,545
- I'm squeaky clean.
- ED: Oh.
433
00:25:05,629 --> 00:25:07,297
HOLDEN: I'm Eliot Ness. I'm...
434
00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:09,424
You're Melvin Purvis, G-MAN.
435
00:25:09,507 --> 00:25:10,508
Exactly.
436
00:25:10,592 --> 00:25:12,385
And back then, no skirt in the FBI.
437
00:25:12,469 --> 00:25:14,262
- No women, just men.
- Wow.
438
00:25:14,346 --> 00:25:19,017
Then I enroll in college,
and suddenly, I am Warren fucking Beatty.
439
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:21,228
- Wow.
- Everything goes.
440
00:25:21,311 --> 00:25:22,771
- You take sugar?
- No.
441
00:25:22,854 --> 00:25:24,314
- Cool. Milk?
- Thank you.
442
00:25:24,397 --> 00:25:26,983
- You got it, man.
- Suddenly it's disco and poppers,
443
00:25:27,067 --> 00:25:28,360
...and fern bars.
444
00:25:28,443 --> 00:25:30,695
I am up to my neck in chicks.
445
00:25:30,779 --> 00:25:32,405
Pussy, pussy, pussy. I hear that.
446
00:25:32,489 --> 00:25:36,534
It turns out chicks do really dig a guy
with a badge.
447
00:25:36,618 --> 00:25:39,162
"Gas, grass, or ass.
Nobody rides for free."
448
00:25:39,246 --> 00:25:42,249
Next thing I know, I'm with a 24-year-old
that I met in a bar.
449
00:25:42,332 --> 00:25:45,835
No woman has ever been so into me
in my entire life.
450
00:25:45,919 --> 00:25:47,337
Don't brag. It's unbecoming.
451
00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:49,339
Oh, my God. I am so sorry.
452
00:25:49,422 --> 00:25:50,548
I'm kidding.
453
00:25:51,216 --> 00:25:52,050
HOLDEN: Man...
454
00:25:54,469 --> 00:25:56,846
...the things she comes up with in the sack.
455
00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:58,598
You gotta love that young pussy.
456
00:25:59,182 --> 00:26:01,142
I do. I really fucking do.
457
00:26:01,226 --> 00:26:05,814
You gotta make it with that young pussy
real quick before it turns into Mom.
458
00:26:08,066 --> 00:26:09,025
Yeah.
459
00:26:11,778 --> 00:26:15,073
So you were a virgin up until then,
that's what you're saying?
460
00:26:15,156 --> 00:26:18,285
- No, not at all.
- Oh, you go over like you're a virgin.
461
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:20,870
- What?
- What's wrong with that?
462
00:26:20,954 --> 00:26:22,205
I was a virgin for years.
463
00:26:22,289 --> 00:26:25,333
Oh, no, there's nothing wrong with it,
it's just I'm... not.
464
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:26,751
Uh-huh.
465
00:26:27,627 --> 00:26:30,463
This new girl, she take it up the ass?
466
00:26:33,508 --> 00:26:35,302
We haven't really discussed it.
467
00:26:35,385 --> 00:26:36,594
Ask her.
468
00:26:36,678 --> 00:26:39,973
An asshole will suck your cock right in,
literally.
469
00:26:40,056 --> 00:26:41,683
It's like a hole that sucks.
470
00:26:41,766 --> 00:26:43,476
(MAKES SLURPING SOUND) It's easy.
471
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:47,731
But when you fuck somebody in the neck,
it's entirely the opposite.
472
00:26:47,814 --> 00:26:51,651
It's nothing but resistance.
It's really difficult.
473
00:26:51,735 --> 00:26:52,944
Let me.
474
00:26:53,028 --> 00:26:54,529
You feel this?
475
00:26:54,612 --> 00:26:56,614
Feel it. It's all muscle.
476
00:26:56,698 --> 00:26:58,325
Cartilaginous.
477
00:26:58,408 --> 00:27:00,368
(WHEEZES, COUGHS)
478
00:27:01,911 --> 00:27:03,288
Is this interesting?
479
00:27:03,747 --> 00:27:07,876
- Oh, yeah.
- Because I can skip some of the detail.
480
00:27:08,335 --> 00:27:09,961
No, I'm here for the detail.
481
00:27:11,129 --> 00:27:12,797
A major college campus.
482
00:27:12,881 --> 00:27:16,634
It's like a giant candy store,
you know what I mean.
483
00:27:16,718 --> 00:27:17,636
Right.
484
00:27:18,303 --> 00:27:23,933
Your, uh, your mom worked on campus
at UCSC, right?
485
00:27:24,476 --> 00:27:26,061
Remind me again what she did.
486
00:27:29,064 --> 00:27:31,691
- Administrative assistant.
- Right.
487
00:27:35,403 --> 00:27:38,823
That's all she lived for, man,
her work and her precious coeds,
488
00:27:38,907 --> 00:27:40,909
...whom she mothered relentlessly.
489
00:27:41,326 --> 00:27:43,828
Do you think
that she neglected you for them?
490
00:27:43,912 --> 00:27:45,372
Put it this way,
491
00:27:45,872 --> 00:27:49,918
...she had a very violently
outspoken position on men.
492
00:27:51,252 --> 00:27:53,671
She had a failed marriage with my father.
493
00:27:53,755 --> 00:27:55,924
I looked a lot like him, so...
494
00:27:56,007 --> 00:27:57,509
You reminded her of him.
495
00:28:00,261 --> 00:28:03,431
Do you think you developed a dislike
for young women as a result?
496
00:28:04,015 --> 00:28:05,975
As far as she was concerned,
497
00:28:06,601 --> 00:28:10,480
I was never going to end up
with one of those girls...
498
00:28:10,563 --> 00:28:12,857
...because I was a fuckup
and an embarrassment.
499
00:28:12,941 --> 00:28:15,026
- You were a failure in her eyes.
- Look.
500
00:28:15,527 --> 00:28:19,572
My mother was a decent, upstanding,
reasonable woman,
501
00:28:19,656 --> 00:28:21,908
...but when it came to me,
502
00:28:21,991 --> 00:28:24,035
...she had nothing but contempt,
503
00:28:24,703 --> 00:28:26,830
...disappointment, and disdain.
504
00:28:28,873 --> 00:28:30,291
That must've been awful.
505
00:28:31,626 --> 00:28:33,002
Well, here's the thing.
506
00:28:37,632 --> 00:28:38,675
I'm listening.
507
00:28:42,137 --> 00:28:46,141
Women are born with this little hole
between their legs...
508
00:28:47,058 --> 00:28:50,812
...which every man on earth
just wants to stick something into.
509
00:28:52,564 --> 00:28:54,149
And they're weaker than men,
510
00:28:55,108 --> 00:28:57,402
...so they learn strategies.
511
00:28:57,485 --> 00:29:00,530
They deploy their minds and their sex,
512
00:29:00,613 --> 00:29:03,575
...and they intuitively learn to humiliate.
513
00:29:06,161 --> 00:29:08,037
Did your mother humiliate you?
514
00:29:14,043 --> 00:29:15,003
Ed?
515
00:29:20,049 --> 00:29:21,676
(BUZZER SOUNDS)
516
00:29:28,850 --> 00:29:30,435
(BUZZER SOUNDS)
517
00:29:36,024 --> 00:29:38,401
HOLDEN: Lust murder doesn't cut it.
518
00:29:38,485 --> 00:29:42,530
He did not stab, and rape, and decapitate
Mom because he was aroused.
519
00:29:42,614 --> 00:29:44,449
He was conditioned to do it.
520
00:29:44,532 --> 00:29:46,951
- Did he say that?
- As good as.
521
00:29:47,035 --> 00:29:48,203
It's schtick.
522
00:29:48,286 --> 00:29:50,205
He learned the vernacular
in the institution.
523
00:29:50,288 --> 00:29:52,957
- He's sophisticated enough to use it.
- No, that's not my instinct.
524
00:29:53,041 --> 00:29:56,294
Is it your instinct he was choosing words
carefully or did he just spew it out?
525
00:29:56,377 --> 00:29:57,212
Very carefully.
526
00:29:57,295 --> 00:30:00,882
He's got you pegged. He's telling you
what he's guessed you want to hear.
527
00:30:01,424 --> 00:30:04,427
- But why would I want to hear that?
- Because you're you.
528
00:30:04,511 --> 00:30:06,721
You told him
about your university education,
529
00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:09,265
...and your sassy girlfriend,
and your sensitive character,
530
00:30:09,349 --> 00:30:11,226
...and he tailored his bullshit to fit.
531
00:30:12,727 --> 00:30:15,396
- Why did you tell him that stuff?
- To loosen him up.
532
00:30:16,564 --> 00:30:19,150
Why do you feel the need
to tell him about your girlfriend?
533
00:30:19,234 --> 00:30:20,652
Just to get him talking.
534
00:30:20,735 --> 00:30:23,404
Holden, he's had seven years
in a correctional facility.
535
00:30:23,488 --> 00:30:25,490
He's been practicing. Don't encourage him.
536
00:30:25,573 --> 00:30:27,659
- I was trying to disarm him.
- You're a federal agent.
537
00:30:27,742 --> 00:30:30,495
Don't give him anything.
He's your subject. Be objective.
538
00:30:30,578 --> 00:30:33,331
- I've gotta trust my instincts on this.
- There's that word again.
539
00:30:33,414 --> 00:30:35,542
So in Fairfield, Iowa
you were in the Dark Ages,
540
00:30:35,625 --> 00:30:38,795
...and now suddenly, you have
all these unimpeachable instincts?
541
00:30:39,254 --> 00:30:40,547
Well, it's been a process.
542
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:43,091
Okay, look, there's no doubt
whatever happened in there...
543
00:30:43,174 --> 00:30:45,176
...was a profound experience for you,
544
00:30:45,260 --> 00:30:47,846
...but I need you to understand
that whatever you think,
545
00:30:47,929 --> 00:30:52,350
...there is a distinct possibility
that he's manipulating you.
546
00:30:52,433 --> 00:30:55,061
♫ Steve Miller Band's "Fly Like an Eagle" playing ♫
547
00:31:02,026 --> 00:31:04,654
♪ Ticktock, tick ♪
♪ Doo, doo, doo, doo ♪
548
00:31:06,990 --> 00:31:09,951
♪ Ticktock, tick ♪
♪ Doo, doo, doo, doo ♪
549
00:31:11,703 --> 00:31:14,956
♪ Time keeps on slippin' ♪
♪ Slippin', slippin' ♪
550
00:31:15,665 --> 00:31:19,878
♪ Into the future ♪
551
00:31:21,963 --> 00:31:25,258
♪ Time keeps on slippin' ♪
♪ Slippin', slippin' ♪
552
00:31:25,341 --> 00:31:28,803
♪ Into the future ♪
553
00:31:30,597 --> 00:31:34,017
♪ I want to fly like an eagle ♪
554
00:31:34,183 --> 00:31:35,977
♪ To the sea ♪
555
00:31:36,394 --> 00:31:40,648
♪ Fly like an eagle ♪
♪ Let my spirit carry me ♪
556
00:31:40,732 --> 00:31:45,987
♪ I want to fly like an eagle ♪
♪ Till I'm free ♪
557
00:31:46,571 --> 00:31:49,741
♪ Fly through the revolution ♪
558
00:31:49,824 --> 00:31:51,159
It's not my fault.
559
00:31:51,242 --> 00:31:53,912
♪ Time keeps on slippin' ♪
♪ Slippin', slippin' ♪
560
00:31:54,621 --> 00:31:58,041
♪ Into the future ♪
561
00:32:00,835 --> 00:32:03,796
♪ Time keeps on slippin' ♪
♪ Slippin', slippin' ♪
562
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:07,800
♪ Into the future ♪
563
00:32:10,345 --> 00:32:13,514
♪ Time keeps on slippin' ♪
♪ Slippin', slippin' ♪
564
00:32:13,598 --> 00:32:17,769
♪ Into the future ♪
565
00:32:19,771 --> 00:32:23,232
♪ Time keeps on slippin' ♪
♪ Slippin', slippin' ♪
566
00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:25,735
Gentleman, I'm Detective Roy Carver.
567
00:32:25,818 --> 00:32:27,987
Listen, I was a little late
for the presentation,
568
00:32:28,071 --> 00:32:29,364
...but that was just great.
569
00:32:29,447 --> 00:32:31,699
- Well, thank you very much.
- Glad to be of service.
570
00:32:31,783 --> 00:32:34,702
Listen, before you go,
I was hoping I could ask you something.
571
00:32:34,786 --> 00:32:36,913
I know you're not just here to teach.
572
00:32:37,497 --> 00:32:40,833
- No, we really just teach, Roy.
- Pretty much all we focus on.
573
00:32:40,917 --> 00:32:44,253
I was hoping I could get you to take
a look at something a little, uh...
574
00:32:44,337 --> 00:32:45,254
...unusual.
575
00:32:46,381 --> 00:32:47,924
Oh, sure thing.
576
00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:55,348
Her name's Rosemary Gonzales,
73 years old.
577
00:32:55,431 --> 00:32:58,726
Her husband died of cancer
so she sold the family farm in Chico,
578
00:32:58,810 --> 00:33:01,354
...moved to Sacramento
to be closer to the grandkids.
579
00:33:02,981 --> 00:33:05,984
Two weeks ago, we find her beaten
within an inch of her life...
580
00:33:06,067 --> 00:33:07,527
...in a doorway to her back porch.
581
00:33:07,986 --> 00:33:09,070
She hasn't been robbed.
582
00:33:09,153 --> 00:33:11,656
She's been groped and assaulted
but not penetrated,
583
00:33:11,739 --> 00:33:14,826
...and the little dog's throat's been cut.
584
00:33:16,786 --> 00:33:18,579
Was the dog killed
because it was protecting her?
585
00:33:18,663 --> 00:33:20,123
Or for some other reason?
586
00:33:20,206 --> 00:33:22,333
That I don't know. But it's interesting.
587
00:33:22,417 --> 00:33:23,626
Why didn't he stab her?
588
00:33:24,627 --> 00:33:25,962
Didn't have the nerve?
589
00:33:26,045 --> 00:33:29,632
I don't think some Latino with a shiv
got scared of a little old lady.
590
00:33:29,716 --> 00:33:32,468
Why do you say that?
Why do you say "Latino" like that?
591
00:33:32,552 --> 00:33:34,345
That's the neighborhood, spics and blacks.
592
00:33:34,429 --> 00:33:36,723
Did she identify anybody
of that ethnicity?
593
00:33:36,806 --> 00:33:40,018
No. She was hovering in and out
of a coma for the past ten days.
594
00:33:40,101 --> 00:33:43,271
Now she's finally come around,
she has no recollection whatsoever.
595
00:33:43,771 --> 00:33:45,565
You think it's about a little dog?
596
00:33:45,648 --> 00:33:48,234
Scottish Terriers can be loud.
Their bark...
597
00:33:48,317 --> 00:33:50,486
- Could be annoying.
- Listen...
598
00:33:51,529 --> 00:33:55,033
...we need to know exactly
how worried we need to be.
599
00:34:32,904 --> 00:34:35,782
ROSEMARY: My husband would've cried
to see me like this.
600
00:34:36,449 --> 00:34:39,494
Me, I don't cry. I'm tough.
601
00:34:40,244 --> 00:34:43,247
But he was just like a baby.
602
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,542
It would've destroyed
his faith in humanity.
603
00:34:48,628 --> 00:34:50,129
What did I ever do?
604
00:34:51,464 --> 00:34:53,466
Who would do such a thing?
605
00:34:55,051 --> 00:34:56,886
I never hurt a soul.
606
00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:59,597
I don't have any enemies.
607
00:35:00,598 --> 00:35:02,350
I don't dress like a whore.
608
00:35:03,226 --> 00:35:04,894
- I'm an old lady...
- WOMAN: Está bien.
609
00:35:05,478 --> 00:35:06,479
(WHIMPERS)
610
00:35:06,979 --> 00:35:08,314
Let me ask you something.
611
00:35:09,148 --> 00:35:11,025
Did your dog ever bite anyone?
612
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:12,485
Never.
613
00:35:12,568 --> 00:35:15,738
Ever bother anyone by barking?
Any complaints from neighbors?
614
00:35:15,822 --> 00:35:19,200
ROSEMARY: No. He was very well-behaved.
615
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,413
- Who cuts the grass, Rosie?
- Who helps you take care of the yard?
616
00:35:25,164 --> 00:35:27,667
I have all sorts of help. Kids mostly.
617
00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:28,668
Which kids?
618
00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:30,878
ROSEMARY: Just local kids.
619
00:35:31,379 --> 00:35:33,214
It's a very close community.
620
00:35:33,297 --> 00:35:36,134
And you didn't recognize your assailant?
He wasn't familiar?
621
00:35:37,593 --> 00:35:39,220
I just don't remember.
622
00:35:41,556 --> 00:35:42,974
Do you have kids?
623
00:35:43,057 --> 00:35:44,058
Two daughters.
624
00:35:44,767 --> 00:35:45,810
TENCH: Married?
625
00:35:46,435 --> 00:35:49,355
The eldest is divorced. Dios mío.
626
00:35:50,231 --> 00:35:52,441
The younger I don't see that often.
627
00:35:52,525 --> 00:35:54,110
Can you remember anything else?
628
00:35:54,235 --> 00:35:55,736
Was he big, little?
629
00:35:56,195 --> 00:35:59,991
Do you remember any moles, scars,
tattoos, distinctive marks?
630
00:36:00,074 --> 00:36:01,993
I remember moonlight.
631
00:36:03,744 --> 00:36:04,787
And...
632
00:36:07,540 --> 00:36:09,625
I do remember a smell.
633
00:36:10,918 --> 00:36:12,170
What kind of smell?
634
00:36:12,753 --> 00:36:14,672
ROSEMARY: I don't know, he just...
635
00:36:16,340 --> 00:36:18,801
- He stank.
- TENCH: Like what?
636
00:36:18,885 --> 00:36:21,053
Grease or gasoline, fertilizer?
637
00:36:21,137 --> 00:36:22,221
ROSEMARY: Like a bum.
638
00:36:22,305 --> 00:36:24,599
Like somebody who needed to wash.
639
00:36:25,224 --> 00:36:28,519
Seventeen, eighteen-year-old
high school kid,
640
00:36:28,603 --> 00:36:31,022
...low self-esteem, hates authority,
641
00:36:31,606 --> 00:36:33,733
...doesn't get along well with his parents.
642
00:36:34,192 --> 00:36:35,735
What, just some punk?
643
00:36:35,818 --> 00:36:37,778
Gets into a fight
with his old man one night,
644
00:36:37,862 --> 00:36:42,575
...maybe he gets a hold of a bottle of liquor
and comes across the house,
645
00:36:42,658 --> 00:36:46,204
...recognizes the place because he cut
the grass there when he was younger.
646
00:36:46,287 --> 00:36:48,289
- Some neighborhood kid?
- HOLDEN: He goes inside.
647
00:36:48,956 --> 00:36:52,376
She doesn't recognize him,
thinks he's broken in, and starts yelling.
648
00:36:52,835 --> 00:36:54,378
The fight gets physical.
649
00:36:54,462 --> 00:36:57,423
He's drunk, he beats the shit out of her.
650
00:36:58,216 --> 00:37:02,470
He knifes the dog
because the dog is yapping its head off.
651
00:37:03,179 --> 00:37:04,305
And then he runs.
652
00:37:05,264 --> 00:37:07,975
Are you guys serious? A teenager?
653
00:37:08,059 --> 00:37:09,227
He has bad hygiene.
654
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,147
Doesn't bathe
because bathing is what his parents want.
655
00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:16,067
Look, we got a lot of kids like that
around here.
656
00:37:17,652 --> 00:37:20,488
But what kind of degenerate
carves up a little dog?
657
00:37:20,571 --> 00:37:22,657
Maybe the kid saw the dog in the yard,
658
00:37:22,740 --> 00:37:26,577
...decided to conduct a moonlight experiment
with his Bowie knife, gets interrupted.
659
00:37:27,495 --> 00:37:30,206
A careful, considerate old lady
would bring her dog in at night.
660
00:37:30,289 --> 00:37:33,668
She went outside with the dog
because she heard something.
661
00:37:34,460 --> 00:37:35,544
CARVER: Listen.
662
00:37:35,628 --> 00:37:37,213
It was a harvest moon.
663
00:37:38,714 --> 00:37:42,134
We have been tossing the idea around
that maybe it's one of these, uh...
664
00:37:42,385 --> 00:37:44,220
...you know, satanic deals.
665
00:37:44,303 --> 00:37:47,265
You know, like maybe the dog is some kind
of ritual sacrifice or something.
666
00:37:47,348 --> 00:37:48,432
(INHALES SHARPLY)
667
00:37:49,141 --> 00:37:50,059
Check.
668
00:37:53,604 --> 00:37:55,648
You need to squeeze
the neighborhood kids.
669
00:37:55,731 --> 00:37:56,941
One of them knows something.
670
00:37:57,024 --> 00:37:59,652
We had a kid like that,
brought him in for questioning twice.
671
00:37:59,735 --> 00:38:00,778
Bring him in again.
672
00:38:00,861 --> 00:38:02,488
We're gonna get pushback
from the family.
673
00:38:02,571 --> 00:38:04,156
His aunt works for the county.
674
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:07,201
- Then make it formal.
- I'm probably gonna need a warrant.
675
00:38:07,285 --> 00:38:09,203
We might be able to help you with that.
676
00:38:16,335 --> 00:38:17,295
Fuck!
677
00:38:19,797 --> 00:38:23,175
Nancy's gonna kill me.
We can't get a flight till Sunday.
678
00:38:27,013 --> 00:38:29,640
- Maybe this kid's like Kemper.
- We have to get a room.
679
00:38:29,724 --> 00:38:32,810
I can take care of the room.
We can turn this into an opportunity.
680
00:38:32,893 --> 00:38:36,105
- It could help with the Gonzales case.
- I can't believe I'm stuck with you.
681
00:38:36,188 --> 00:38:38,065
- We can talk to Kemper.
- No!
682
00:38:38,149 --> 00:38:40,192
- I'm gonna play golf.
- Come with me.
683
00:38:40,276 --> 00:38:42,236
I'm not consulting with Ed Kemper.
684
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,655
Not to consult. Just background.
685
00:38:44,739 --> 00:38:46,282
When did his behavior escalate?
686
00:38:46,365 --> 00:38:48,409
You can't stay away
from that motherfucker, can you?
687
00:38:48,492 --> 00:38:50,536
No, please. Don't say "motherfucker."
688
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,414
You know that he'll respond
to your seniority.
689
00:38:53,497 --> 00:38:56,167
- You could really smoke him out.
- No, not now.
690
00:38:56,792 --> 00:38:59,712
We're stuck here all weekend.
What else are you gonna do?
691
00:39:01,088 --> 00:39:02,673
I said forget about it, man.
692
00:39:03,841 --> 00:39:05,343
(EXHALES)
693
00:39:05,843 --> 00:39:07,845
(BUZZER SOUNDS)
694
00:39:14,518 --> 00:39:18,314
So, you're the big boss, right?
695
00:39:18,397 --> 00:39:21,609
Well, I established
the Behavioral Science Unit years ago,
696
00:39:21,692 --> 00:39:23,778
...but Holden's come in
with a lot of new ideas.
697
00:39:23,861 --> 00:39:27,323
So Holden's
the intrepid rookie investigator?
698
00:39:27,406 --> 00:39:30,326
Bill taught me everything I know
about criminal behavior.
699
00:39:30,409 --> 00:39:33,287
Is that right?
Well, let me ask you something, Bill.
700
00:39:33,371 --> 00:39:35,998
What do you think
about Joseph Wambaugh?
701
00:39:36,082 --> 00:39:38,751
He knows Joe. Right, Bill?
702
00:39:39,502 --> 00:39:40,419
Well...
703
00:39:40,503 --> 00:39:43,214
Actually,
he based a lot of that stuff on Bill.
704
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,842
- No shit.
- Uh-huh.
705
00:39:46,926 --> 00:39:49,303
HOLDEN: Not the, uh, stories,
706
00:39:49,387 --> 00:39:52,598
...but the psychological insights
and the vernacular.
707
00:39:52,681 --> 00:39:53,557
Yeah.
708
00:39:54,058 --> 00:39:55,768
That is fascinating.
709
00:39:56,268 --> 00:39:59,021
I sure would love
to pick your brain sometime.
710
00:39:59,105 --> 00:40:00,981
Well, that's another life sentence
right there.
711
00:40:01,065 --> 00:40:03,317
- (CHUCKLES)
- HOLDEN: Maybe you could, uh...
712
00:40:03,401 --> 00:40:06,070
...talk about your background
a little bit with Bill.
713
00:40:06,654 --> 00:40:10,366
Maybe tell him the thing
that you told me the other day...
714
00:40:10,449 --> 00:40:11,659
...about your mother.
715
00:40:13,953 --> 00:40:15,162
My mother.
716
00:40:18,290 --> 00:40:20,668
Well, you see, Bill,
717
00:40:20,751 --> 00:40:24,922
...even as a child,
I had kind of a rich fantasy life.
718
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,094
As a teenager,
I began by cutting up inanimate objects.
719
00:40:30,177 --> 00:40:32,304
G.I. Joe. My sister's dolls.
720
00:40:32,388 --> 00:40:35,266
Ripping their heads off,
cutting up the bodies.
721
00:40:35,766 --> 00:40:37,768
Mutilating them, if you will.
722
00:40:37,852 --> 00:40:40,604
You had fantasies of what, real women?
723
00:40:40,688 --> 00:40:41,730
ED: Oh, yeah.
724
00:40:41,814 --> 00:40:45,860
And my mother would yell
and scream at me, tell me I was sick.
725
00:40:45,943 --> 00:40:48,946
She thought I was going to do
something hideous one day.
726
00:40:49,029 --> 00:40:50,656
What did she think you were gonna do?
727
00:40:50,739 --> 00:40:54,160
I guess rape my sister or something.
728
00:40:54,618 --> 00:40:56,871
This is when I was ten years old.
729
00:40:58,122 --> 00:40:58,956
Nice.
730
00:40:59,457 --> 00:41:01,417
Not exactly The Brady Bunch.
731
00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:03,180
TENCH: Why do you think she thought this?
732
00:41:03,210 --> 00:41:05,045
Because she was fucking nuts.
733
00:41:05,129 --> 00:41:07,840
- You didn't do anything to frighten her?
- ED: She frightened me.
734
00:41:08,424 --> 00:41:12,094
She'd make me sleep
on a dirty old mattress in the basement.
735
00:41:12,178 --> 00:41:14,889
Lock the door. Ten years old.
736
00:41:14,972 --> 00:41:17,433
So then it became dogs and cats,
strangling them,
737
00:41:17,516 --> 00:41:19,894
...burying them in the backyard.
738
00:41:19,977 --> 00:41:21,896
HOLDEN: Hold on. Sorry.
739
00:41:25,232 --> 00:41:26,567
Just to vent.
740
00:41:27,735 --> 00:41:31,405
You know what I'm saying?
Classic displacement activity.
741
00:41:31,489 --> 00:41:35,784
Because it was my retreat
from the insanity of the world.
742
00:41:35,868 --> 00:41:37,953
- Then, you see...
- HOLDEN: Sorry. Wait a minute.
743
00:41:38,037 --> 00:41:39,038
Sorry, guys.
744
00:41:43,751 --> 00:41:45,294
Is that why your mother sent you away?
745
00:41:46,545 --> 00:41:49,173
In the end,
I ran away to live with my father,
746
00:41:49,256 --> 00:41:51,050
...but he didn't want me either.
747
00:41:51,133 --> 00:41:54,595
So they packed me off
to live with my grandma.
748
00:41:54,678 --> 00:41:56,555
She thought I was a freak.
749
00:41:56,639 --> 00:41:57,890
Is that why you shot her?
750
00:41:58,432 --> 00:42:02,186
Well, they were both very controlling,
aggressive, matriarchal women.
751
00:42:02,269 --> 00:42:04,688
- Matriarchal?
- ED: Female-centric.
752
00:42:04,772 --> 00:42:06,732
Get that down. That's a big antecedent.
753
00:42:07,233 --> 00:42:08,275
What happened after that?
754
00:42:09,151 --> 00:42:11,362
I was put in a fucking mental institution.
755
00:42:11,987 --> 00:42:13,072
I was 15.
756
00:42:13,155 --> 00:42:15,991
I was 21 years old when I came out.
757
00:42:16,075 --> 00:42:19,912
All those years when other kids
were having their sexual revolution,
758
00:42:19,995 --> 00:42:21,747
I was locked in a room.
759
00:42:22,373 --> 00:42:26,919
You remember the whole flower power,
college girls into love and peace?
760
00:42:28,337 --> 00:42:33,050
Physically, I wasn't impotent,
but emotionally I was.
761
00:42:34,468 --> 00:42:39,056
Because of the way I was conditioned
by Mom, right? Like you said.
762
00:42:39,139 --> 00:42:40,891
- Conditioned?
- Right.
763
00:42:42,059 --> 00:42:43,394
You see, Bill,
764
00:42:44,019 --> 00:42:47,231
I knew a week before she died
I was gonna kill her.
765
00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:54,738
She went out to a party, she got soused,
she came home alone.
766
00:42:54,822 --> 00:42:58,158
I asked her how her evening went.
She just looked at me.
767
00:42:59,410 --> 00:43:01,662
She said, "For seven years."
768
00:43:02,288 --> 00:43:07,167
She said, "I haven't had sex with a man
because of you, my murderous son."
769
00:43:12,464 --> 00:43:15,426
So I got a claw hammer
and I beat her to death.
770
00:43:17,177 --> 00:43:18,512
Then I cut her head off.
771
00:43:23,475 --> 00:43:25,352
And I humiliated her.
772
00:43:29,898 --> 00:43:32,651
And I said, "There. Now you've had sex."
773
00:43:37,740 --> 00:43:40,200
If there's one thing I know, it's this:
774
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:44,788
A mother should not scorn her own son.
775
00:43:45,956 --> 00:43:48,083
If a woman humiliates her little boy,
776
00:43:48,167 --> 00:43:52,588
...he will become hostile, and violent,
and debased. Period.
777
00:44:03,182 --> 00:44:07,019
MAN: (OVER PA) Ladies and gentlemen,
we've reached our cruising altitude...
778
00:44:07,102 --> 00:44:09,647
- I think we need to talk.
- Now do you see?
779
00:44:09,730 --> 00:44:11,940
I need to speak to Shepard.
Tell him what's going on.
780
00:44:12,024 --> 00:44:12,941
It's too early.
781
00:44:13,025 --> 00:44:15,027
The longer we wait,
the worse it's gonna be.
782
00:44:15,110 --> 00:44:18,113
- We'll be drowned in red tape.
- And there's a reason for that.
783
00:44:18,197 --> 00:44:21,367
The FBI is a glacial bureaucracy,
but it's highly effective.
784
00:44:21,450 --> 00:44:23,911
Kemper's in lockdown,
what's he gonna do?
785
00:44:23,994 --> 00:44:26,246
Kemper is a gigantic blabbermouth.
786
00:44:26,330 --> 00:44:28,123
He's friends with all the prison guards.
787
00:44:28,207 --> 00:44:31,377
A federal agent is meeting with him,
you think that hasn't reached the warden?
788
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,339
A couple of months, that's all I need.
789
00:44:35,422 --> 00:44:37,716
No. Because if we get censured,
790
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,469
...we're off work two weeks minimum,
no appeal.
791
00:44:40,552 --> 00:44:42,930
And you can kiss goodbye
to the Gonzales case.
792
00:44:43,013 --> 00:44:44,640
They'll never catch that guy.
793
00:44:50,312 --> 00:44:52,856
Did you tell a detective in Sacramento
you would intercede...
794
00:44:52,940 --> 00:44:55,651
...with the district attorney
on behalf of the FBI?
795
00:44:56,235 --> 00:44:59,279
Some DA called me and asked
why I had two agents in Sacramento.
796
00:44:59,363 --> 00:45:01,573
"Two goons," his exact words.
797
00:45:01,657 --> 00:45:02,908
It's a strange case.
798
00:45:02,991 --> 00:45:05,702
The locals were struggling.
We were trying to figure a way forward.
799
00:45:05,786 --> 00:45:07,246
What were you thinking?
800
00:45:07,329 --> 00:45:09,164
At the time, we deemed this
of great urgency.
801
00:45:09,248 --> 00:45:10,582
The circumstances were unusual.
802
00:45:10,666 --> 00:45:13,585
Assault and battery?
Since when does the FBI consult on that?
803
00:45:13,669 --> 00:45:14,711
Not even homicide.
804
00:45:14,795 --> 00:45:16,130
Unless you count a dog.
805
00:45:16,672 --> 00:45:18,757
Bill, the past three years
I've heard you complain...
806
00:45:18,841 --> 00:45:20,634
...about how overworked you are
with the Road School.
807
00:45:20,717 --> 00:45:21,927
I gave you your assistant,
808
00:45:22,010 --> 00:45:24,304
...and this is how you choose
to spend your time?
809
00:45:25,681 --> 00:45:28,225
I trust you understand my position
on this.
810
00:45:29,852 --> 00:45:32,396
Is there anything else
you want to tell me?
811
00:45:35,441 --> 00:45:37,484
(GRUNTS)
812
00:45:39,653 --> 00:45:41,363
(SIREN WAILING ON TV)
813
00:45:41,447 --> 00:45:44,533
I get back on Tuesday, if you want
to pick me up from the airport.
814
00:45:44,616 --> 00:45:45,742
Sure, I'd love to.
815
00:45:46,743 --> 00:45:49,580
- You should come with me sometime.
- To Detroit?
816
00:45:50,497 --> 00:45:53,333
See your old stomping grounds.
Meet my mom.
817
00:45:53,417 --> 00:45:55,002
(LAUGHS)
(SCOFFS)
818
00:45:55,085 --> 00:45:56,446
Okay, good to know where we're at.
819
00:45:56,503 --> 00:45:59,506
- No, I would love to meet your mom.
- I said sometime.
820
00:45:59,590 --> 00:46:01,758
No, actually, it's something
I would really enjoy.
821
00:46:01,842 --> 00:46:03,427
I meant eventually.
822
00:46:03,510 --> 00:46:05,846
I'm sure she's really, really lovely.
823
00:46:06,430 --> 00:46:08,557
Actually, she's kind of a bitch,
824
00:46:09,433 --> 00:46:11,310
...especially when it comes
to people I'm dating.
825
00:46:11,393 --> 00:46:12,227
Really?
826
00:46:12,936 --> 00:46:14,855
But... I like you.
827
00:46:15,939 --> 00:46:18,358
I might give you the secret
to win her over.
828
00:46:20,527 --> 00:46:21,528
What might that be?
829
00:46:21,612 --> 00:46:25,282
Well, Mom doesn't care what kind of music
you like, what kind of job you have,
830
00:46:25,365 --> 00:46:26,950
...what kind of car you drive.
831
00:46:27,576 --> 00:46:30,954
Instead, she'll ask you about your mother.
832
00:46:31,580 --> 00:46:34,041
It'll seem like
a perfectly innocent question,
833
00:46:34,124 --> 00:46:36,210
...but she'll be watching you closely.
834
00:46:37,211 --> 00:46:39,880
If she thinks
you love and respect your mom,
835
00:46:40,547 --> 00:46:43,258
...she'll know that you'll treat her daughter
the same way.
836
00:46:46,053 --> 00:46:47,387
That's actually shrewd.
837
00:46:48,055 --> 00:46:50,724
...hair group.
It can't do anything about the hair...
838
00:46:50,807 --> 00:46:51,934
So...
839
00:46:53,018 --> 00:46:54,269
...do you like your mom?
840
00:46:54,770 --> 00:46:56,730
(INHALES, EXHALES)
841
00:46:56,813 --> 00:46:57,856
I do.
842
00:46:57,940 --> 00:47:00,400
She's someone I really enjoy talking to.
843
00:47:00,984 --> 00:47:03,862
I knew it. I knew you were a momma's boy.
844
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,368
You should just come with me tomorrow.
You've already passed the test.
845
00:47:09,826 --> 00:47:11,495
I couldn't even if I wanted to.
846
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:14,164
Shepard doesn't want us leaving town.
847
00:47:14,248 --> 00:47:15,666
Why? What's happened?
848
00:47:16,166 --> 00:47:17,459
We... Well...
849
00:47:18,085 --> 00:47:19,002
I...
850
00:47:19,753 --> 00:47:21,255
...really fucked up.
851
00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:23,632
Ooh. You grounded?
852
00:47:28,095 --> 00:47:30,806
When are they gonna start
taking this whole thing seriously?
853
00:47:30,889 --> 00:47:31,723
(SIGHS)
854
00:48:00,752 --> 00:48:02,421
- Hi.
- Hi.
855
00:48:12,014 --> 00:48:15,517
- How do you know where I live?
- Personnel gave me your address.
856
00:48:25,902 --> 00:48:27,154
Let's go back to Shepard.
857
00:48:27,863 --> 00:48:29,983
Tell him about Kemper,
tell him what we've been doing.
858
00:48:30,032 --> 00:48:32,743
- You think he'll listen now?
- Let's make it official.
859
00:48:32,826 --> 00:48:35,078
You don't want to wait
till Sacramento blows over?
860
00:48:35,162 --> 00:48:37,664
No, I want to go back to Sacramento
and fix it.
861
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,542
If we fix it,
Shepard might give us what we want.
862
00:48:42,210 --> 00:48:44,671
He's not stupid. He'll have to listen.
863
00:48:44,755 --> 00:48:47,049
SHEPARD: Are you out of your fucking minds?!
864
00:48:47,132 --> 00:48:48,842
You interviewed Edmund Kemper?
865
00:48:48,925 --> 00:48:51,011
Not so much interviewed.
More like a conversation.
866
00:48:51,094 --> 00:48:53,889
He said interesting things
that turned out to be really useful.
867
00:48:53,972 --> 00:48:55,724
- What the fuck?
- I just had this idea...
868
00:48:55,807 --> 00:48:58,060
I don't want to hear your idea.
I'm sick of your ideas.
869
00:48:58,143 --> 00:49:00,687
It is not our job
to commiserate with these people.
870
00:49:00,771 --> 00:49:03,607
It is our job to electrocute them.
How long has this been going on?
871
00:49:03,690 --> 00:49:07,319
- Just when we were in Sacramento.
- The conversations with Kemper shed light...
872
00:49:07,402 --> 00:49:09,082
...on things we've been exploring
in the unit.
873
00:49:09,154 --> 00:49:11,594
There's a correlation
with what we're finding at crime scenes.
874
00:49:11,657 --> 00:49:12,908
It proves that we're on track.
875
00:49:12,991 --> 00:49:16,411
Proof the Federal Bureau of Investigation
is on track after all these years?
876
00:49:16,495 --> 00:49:19,081
Well, golly, what a relief.
I am so pleased for us.
877
00:49:19,164 --> 00:49:21,291
- We're pleased too.
- Don't smart-mouth me, Holden!
878
00:49:21,375 --> 00:49:24,461
You fucked up the Gonzales situation,
pissed off the Sacramento DA,
879
00:49:24,544 --> 00:49:27,214
...and you've been interviewing lifers
in the state penitentiary.
880
00:49:27,297 --> 00:49:30,509
Sir, the insights during these visits
may help us identify...
881
00:49:30,592 --> 00:49:33,345
...the person responsible for the attacks
in Sacramento and prevent others.
882
00:49:33,428 --> 00:49:36,056
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Here's what it is. Burn your notes.
883
00:49:36,139 --> 00:49:39,393
Don't speak to me about this anymore.
Don't put it in any reports. You're done.
884
00:49:39,476 --> 00:49:40,519
Excuse me, sir.
885
00:49:41,728 --> 00:49:44,564
I truly believe there is a vein here
that needs to be mined.
886
00:49:44,648 --> 00:49:47,234
Okay, kiddo.
You're looking down the barrel.
887
00:49:47,734 --> 00:49:50,612
Three whole bags:
censure, suspension, transfer.
888
00:50:05,711 --> 00:50:06,753
Pardon me.
889
00:50:08,296 --> 00:50:11,383
Sir, permit me to speak.
I've been doing this shit for seven years.
890
00:50:11,466 --> 00:50:13,885
I trained Holden because
he was transferred to my department.
891
00:50:13,969 --> 00:50:15,762
He knows his criminal psychology.
892
00:50:15,846 --> 00:50:17,973
He's done his homework,
worked his butt off,
893
00:50:18,056 --> 00:50:19,496
...and now I think he's onto something.
894
00:50:19,558 --> 00:50:21,727
Onto what?
He made friends with the Coed Killer.
895
00:50:21,810 --> 00:50:24,271
If this is going to work,
we need to talk to more subjects.
896
00:50:24,354 --> 00:50:27,232
More? No! What's next, Charles Manson?
When's he booked for?
897
00:50:27,315 --> 00:50:28,942
We were thinking June.
898
00:50:29,651 --> 00:50:30,736
I think it's right.
899
00:50:30,819 --> 00:50:32,571
We need to use whatever resource...
900
00:50:32,654 --> 00:50:34,781
Resource, my ass!
What's the matter, bored with golf?
901
00:50:34,865 --> 00:50:37,534
California jails are full
of thrill killers and lust murderers.
902
00:50:37,617 --> 00:50:40,537
- And we put them there, that's our job.
- Dying and rotting on the vine.
903
00:50:40,620 --> 00:50:43,123
Cry me a river, Holden.
All the wasted potential.
904
00:50:43,206 --> 00:50:44,332
It is wasted potential, sir.
905
00:50:44,416 --> 00:50:46,501
- We could be using these people.
- Using how?
906
00:50:46,585 --> 00:50:48,712
- Their knowledge and insight.
- Of what?
907
00:50:48,795 --> 00:50:49,921
- HOLDEN: Themselves.
- Whoselves?!
908
00:50:50,005 --> 00:50:52,466
Then we know what we're talking about
when we speak to other law enforcement.
909
00:50:52,549 --> 00:50:55,260
- Can you make him shut up?
- I have not been able to, sir.
910
00:50:56,845 --> 00:51:00,474
How do we get ahead of crazy
if we don't know how crazy thinks?
911
00:51:10,442 --> 00:51:11,902
I like you, Bill.
912
00:51:12,527 --> 00:51:14,988
I don't particularly like him,
but I like you.
913
00:51:17,783 --> 00:51:20,243
Okay, you may continue
with your little sideshow.
914
00:51:20,327 --> 00:51:22,370
However, no one can know about it. Clear?
915
00:51:23,205 --> 00:51:24,456
You will relocate yourselves...
916
00:51:24,539 --> 00:51:27,000
...to the basement
beneath Behavioral Sciences,
917
00:51:27,083 --> 00:51:29,211
...reporting directly and exclusively to me.
918
00:51:29,294 --> 00:51:30,921
The basement? I'm 44 years old.
919
00:51:31,004 --> 00:51:34,257
You may dedicate ten hours
of your 50-hour work week to this.
920
00:51:34,341 --> 00:51:37,844
If I deem any aspect of it to be
unwarranted, unnecessary, or unsavory,
921
00:51:37,928 --> 00:51:40,096
I will end it. Do you both understand?
922
00:51:40,180 --> 00:51:41,097
Yes.
923
00:51:42,265 --> 00:51:43,183
And thank you, sir.
924
00:51:44,017 --> 00:51:45,143
Thank you, sir.
925
00:52:03,995 --> 00:52:10,581
♫ Talking Heads' "Psycho Killer" playing ♫
926
00:52:11,169 --> 00:52:12,254
(ELEVATOR DINGS)
927
00:52:22,305 --> 00:52:23,181
(ELEVATOR DINGS)
928
00:52:28,395 --> 00:52:31,606
♪ I can't seem to face up to the facts ♪
929
00:52:32,149 --> 00:52:35,318
♪ I'm tense and nervous ♪
♪ And I can't relax ♪
930
00:52:36,278 --> 00:52:39,406
♪ I can't sleep 'cause my bed's on fire ♪
931
00:52:40,365 --> 00:52:43,660
♪ Don't touch me, I'm a real live wire ♪
932
00:52:44,536 --> 00:52:47,622
♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪
933
00:52:47,706 --> 00:52:51,543
♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa ♪
♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪
934
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:57,132
♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪
935
00:52:57,215 --> 00:53:00,218
♪ Oh-ho-ho ♪
936
00:53:00,302 --> 00:53:03,096
♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪
937
00:53:03,180 --> 00:53:07,058
♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa ♪
♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪
938
00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:13,064
♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪
939
00:53:13,148 --> 00:53:16,484
(VOCALIZING)
940
00:53:26,578 --> 00:53:29,873
♪ You start a conversation ♪
♪ You can't even finish it ♪
941
00:53:30,540 --> 00:53:34,252
♪ You're talking a lot ♪
♪ But you're not saying anything ♪
942
00:53:34,586 --> 00:53:37,631
♪ When I have nothing to say ♪
♪ My lips are sealed ♪
943
00:53:38,340 --> 00:53:41,551
♪ Say something once, why say it again? ♪
944
00:53:42,761 --> 00:53:45,931
♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪
945
00:53:46,014 --> 00:53:49,851
♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa ♪
♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪
946
00:53:50,185 --> 00:53:55,774
♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪
947
00:53:56,233 --> 00:53:57,651
♪ Oh-ho-ho ♪
948
00:53:58,443 --> 00:54:01,363
♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪
949
00:54:01,446 --> 00:54:05,533
♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa ♪
♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪
950
00:54:05,992 --> 00:54:11,581
♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪
951
00:54:11,873 --> 00:54:15,293
(VOCALIZING)
952
00:54:25,262 --> 00:54:28,848
♪ We are vain and we are blind ♪
953
00:54:28,932 --> 00:54:32,686
♪ I hate people when they're not polite ♪
954
00:54:33,436 --> 00:54:36,564
♪ Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est? ♪
955
00:54:36,648 --> 00:54:40,443
♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa ♪
♪ Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa, far better ♪
956
00:54:40,944 --> 00:54:46,574
♪ Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ♪
957
00:54:46,825 --> 00:54:50,161
(VOCALIZING)
81345
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