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1
00:00:14,472 --> 00:00:17,392
(SIREN BLARING IN DISTANCE)
2
00:00:18,018 --> 00:00:19,644
MAN: (OVER MEGAPHONE) Mr. Miller?
3
00:00:21,146 --> 00:00:23,690
Is everyone okay in there?
4
00:00:23,773 --> 00:00:24,858
(CAR DOOR OPENS)
5
00:00:25,734 --> 00:00:27,152
Agent Ford, FBI.
6
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:31,239
Here, sir.
7
00:00:31,322 --> 00:00:33,908
MAN: (OVER MEGAPHONE) We want to know what's going on.
8
00:00:34,701 --> 00:00:37,871
If you harm anyone,
it will not end well for you!
9
00:00:37,954 --> 00:00:39,456
Special Agent Holden Ford.
10
00:00:41,166 --> 00:00:42,876
- Ninkovich.
- Is he talking?
11
00:00:42,959 --> 00:00:44,294
Not making sense. Been briefed?
12
00:00:44,377 --> 00:00:46,254
On the way over.
Five people still in there?
13
00:00:46,337 --> 00:00:49,090
A security guard, the secretary,
three guys from the line.
14
00:00:49,174 --> 00:00:50,425
(DOOR OPENS)
15
00:00:52,010 --> 00:00:54,971
- MILLER: Where is she?
- NINKOVICH: Take it easy, Mr. Miller.
16
00:00:55,055 --> 00:00:56,723
MILLER: I want my wife!
17
00:00:56,806 --> 00:00:59,476
Put the gun down,
step away from Ms. Curtwell.
18
00:00:59,559 --> 00:01:04,022
- MILLER: I have asked you...
- We need to see that everyone is unharmed.
19
00:01:04,606 --> 00:01:05,482
You gonna shoot me?
20
00:01:05,982 --> 00:01:09,694
If you do not abide by our terms,
and soon...
21
00:01:09,778 --> 00:01:11,279
You can't see me!
22
00:01:11,362 --> 00:01:14,574
I'm warning you,
our patience is wearing thin.
23
00:01:14,657 --> 00:01:17,660
How can you shoot what you can't see?
24
00:01:17,744 --> 00:01:18,745
Mr. Miller!
25
00:01:19,329 --> 00:01:20,914
- No, thank you.
- (FEEDBACK SQUEALS)
26
00:01:20,997 --> 00:01:22,332
Hey, Cody.
27
00:01:23,666 --> 00:01:26,503
My name is Holden. I'd like to help you.
28
00:01:27,045 --> 00:01:29,672
- Tell me what's going on.
- I gotta talk to my wife.
29
00:01:29,756 --> 00:01:31,436
- HOLDEN: All right.
- She's the only one.
30
00:01:31,508 --> 00:01:32,759
I understand.
31
00:01:32,842 --> 00:01:35,553
For the moment,
is there anything else we can get you?
32
00:01:35,637 --> 00:01:37,639
Get these fucking people away.
33
00:01:37,722 --> 00:01:38,640
Okay.
34
00:01:41,226 --> 00:01:44,229
- Okay...
- (CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)
35
00:01:45,313 --> 00:01:46,815
(SIGHS)
36
00:01:46,898 --> 00:01:48,942
If I can get them to back off,
37
00:01:49,484 --> 00:01:52,779
...will you... relax with Ms. Curtwell?
38
00:01:53,696 --> 00:01:56,324
Give us some time to reach your wife.
39
00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:00,328
MILLER: Okay.
40
00:02:00,411 --> 00:02:01,454
Thank you.
41
00:02:05,959 --> 00:02:08,503
Keep the snipers. Back out the perimeter.
42
00:02:08,586 --> 00:02:10,586
If he starts firing,
we'll have to storm the place.
43
00:02:10,588 --> 00:02:12,674
They're making me nervous.
Imagine what they're doing to him.
44
00:02:12,757 --> 00:02:15,218
He has no criminal history.
He's clearly having an episode.
45
00:02:15,301 --> 00:02:17,637
We need to keep him calm
and wear him down.
46
00:02:18,054 --> 00:02:19,556
Get rid of those reporters.
47
00:02:21,349 --> 00:02:22,767
(INDISTINCT RADIO CHATTER)
48
00:02:22,851 --> 00:02:24,561
All right, guys. Back it up!
49
00:02:24,644 --> 00:02:27,689
- MAN 1: All right. Let's go. Back it up.
- MAN 2: Move back.
50
00:02:29,858 --> 00:02:30,859
How am I doing?
51
00:02:32,443 --> 00:02:33,945
(WOMAN GASPS)
52
00:02:37,198 --> 00:02:39,367
- MILLER: You see me?
- Oh, God.
53
00:02:41,119 --> 00:02:42,871
Yes, I can see you!
54
00:02:44,330 --> 00:02:47,292
- What do you see?
- HOLDEN: I can see that you're naked.
55
00:02:47,876 --> 00:02:49,460
I can see that you're cold.
56
00:02:49,544 --> 00:02:52,630
(THUNDER RUMBLING)
57
00:02:57,510 --> 00:02:59,345
(INDISTINCT RADIO CHATTER)
58
00:02:59,429 --> 00:03:01,264
Is there a phone?
Can we get him on the line?
59
00:03:01,347 --> 00:03:04,309
- He's got it off the hook.
- That was his demand, talk to his wife?
60
00:03:04,392 --> 00:03:06,352
Took all day to find her.
She's on her way.
61
00:03:06,436 --> 00:03:08,688
- You're not bringing her.
- I want her to calm him.
62
00:03:08,771 --> 00:03:10,491
Her presence might have
the opposite effect.
63
00:03:14,193 --> 00:03:16,321
Hi, Mrs. Miller? Don't get out.
64
00:03:16,404 --> 00:03:19,866
I'm Holden Ford from the FBI.
Do you understand the situation?
65
00:03:19,949 --> 00:03:23,369
- Cody's got some people in there?
- What happened this morning?
66
00:03:23,453 --> 00:03:24,412
I don't know.
67
00:03:24,954 --> 00:03:27,999
I tried to get him sectioned on Sunday,
but I haven't seen him since.
68
00:03:28,082 --> 00:03:31,377
They told me he stole a shotgun,
robbed a liquor store?
69
00:03:31,461 --> 00:03:32,754
Was he delusional? Violent?
70
00:03:32,837 --> 00:03:34,756
He's not violent.
71
00:03:34,839 --> 00:03:37,884
He's been saying that he's invisible
for a while now.
72
00:03:37,967 --> 00:03:40,011
Truly invisible.
He's been seeing a doctor.
73
00:03:40,094 --> 00:03:41,262
Did the doctor diagnose him?
74
00:03:41,888 --> 00:03:43,556
Cody wouldn't tell me.
75
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,100
He's taking medication,
but he might've stopped.
76
00:03:46,184 --> 00:03:48,478
- What kind of medication?
- I'm not sure.
77
00:03:49,479 --> 00:03:50,438
Here's his doctor.
78
00:03:50,521 --> 00:03:52,273
You tried to get him sectioned?
79
00:03:52,357 --> 00:03:55,526
He kept talking to people that weren't
there, saying they could see him.
80
00:03:56,402 --> 00:03:59,030
I told him I was gonna leave him
if he didn't go to the hospital.
81
00:03:59,113 --> 00:04:01,593
- You gave him an ultimatum?
- MRS. MILLER: (SOBBING) I'm sorry.
82
00:04:02,492 --> 00:04:04,827
- I feel awful.
- This is not your fault.
83
00:04:05,286 --> 00:04:06,704
Has he hurt anyone?
84
00:04:06,788 --> 00:04:09,374
Not that we know about.
I'm sending you along for now.
85
00:04:09,874 --> 00:04:11,292
(BANGS ON ROOF OF CAR)
86
00:04:14,212 --> 00:04:15,755
Have someone call his doctor.
87
00:04:15,838 --> 00:04:17,799
Get his wife to tell him
she won't leave him.
88
00:04:17,882 --> 00:04:20,969
We need more information.
Let's see if we can get him on the line.
89
00:04:22,845 --> 00:04:24,097
Cody!
90
00:04:24,180 --> 00:04:26,182
Everything okay in there?
91
00:04:29,143 --> 00:04:31,104
I'd really like to know
what's going on in there.
92
00:04:31,187 --> 00:04:33,064
I promise you, we can work this out.
93
00:04:40,905 --> 00:04:42,031
Where's my wife?
94
00:04:42,532 --> 00:04:46,244
HOLDEN: It's a difficult situation.
Taking a while to get her here.
95
00:04:46,327 --> 00:04:48,568
- She doesn't want to talk to me?
- HOLDEN: That's not it.
96
00:04:48,621 --> 00:04:51,249
She is very worried about you.
97
00:04:51,791 --> 00:04:54,210
- You talked to her?
- HOLDEN: On the phone.
98
00:04:55,253 --> 00:04:58,214
- Maybe you could talk to her on the phone.
- No!
99
00:05:00,049 --> 00:05:01,634
She has to be here.
100
00:05:06,681 --> 00:05:10,226
- HOLDEN: I understand your frustration.
- MILLER: What do you understand?
101
00:05:10,310 --> 00:05:13,980
HOLDEN: Not being able to communicate
with a trusted loved one.
102
00:05:15,231 --> 00:05:16,774
What do you want to say to her?
103
00:05:17,775 --> 00:05:18,985
Why would I tell you?
104
00:05:22,238 --> 00:05:23,740
Maybe I can help.
105
00:05:25,658 --> 00:05:26,743
I don't think so.
106
00:05:30,538 --> 00:05:33,875
(SCREAMS)
107
00:05:33,958 --> 00:05:36,627
(ALL CLAMORING)
108
00:05:46,179 --> 00:05:48,806
(THEME MUSIC PLAYING)
109
00:07:26,112 --> 00:07:27,321
(DOOR OPENS)
110
00:08:27,673 --> 00:08:28,508
(EXHALES)
111
00:09:28,317 --> 00:09:29,819
- Thank you.
- You're welcome.
112
00:09:40,830 --> 00:09:45,751
You followed procedure. You did your job.
You did everything by the book.
113
00:09:45,835 --> 00:09:48,588
He took hostages.
He knew there'd be consequences.
114
00:09:48,671 --> 00:09:50,751
- He thought he was invisible.
- You're not his shrink.
115
00:09:50,756 --> 00:09:53,926
You're not responsible for diagnosing him.
That's not your remit.
116
00:09:54,885 --> 00:09:58,055
These things happen in real time,
and we are the last responders.
117
00:09:58,139 --> 00:10:01,684
If an operation's gonna go south,
this is not the worst outcome.
118
00:10:01,767 --> 00:10:03,436
Stay focused on what we do.
119
00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:06,397
If I did everything by the book,
it begs the question...
120
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,484
This place is pretty much the benchmark
for excellence in law enforcement.
121
00:10:11,694 --> 00:10:14,572
In the rest of the world,
hostage negotiation's on its way out.
122
00:10:14,655 --> 00:10:17,617
You think the Israelis bothered
to negotiate at Entebbe last year?
123
00:10:19,869 --> 00:10:24,457
You didn't lose one hostage or bystander.
That's how we measure success.
124
00:10:26,459 --> 00:10:29,086
And your courses are a big hit
in the summer.
125
00:10:29,170 --> 00:10:31,255
I actually think
you should be teaching more.
126
00:10:31,339 --> 00:10:33,466
- You're putting me out to pasture.
- No.
127
00:10:33,549 --> 00:10:35,551
I'm putting you to work
where it really counts.
128
00:10:35,635 --> 00:10:37,011
Despite what happened.
129
00:10:37,094 --> 00:10:39,347
Because of what happened, Holden.
130
00:10:39,847 --> 00:10:40,890
It seasoned you.
131
00:10:45,102 --> 00:10:46,103
Thank you, sir...
132
00:10:47,104 --> 00:10:48,105
...but I'd rather not.
133
00:10:48,189 --> 00:10:49,774
Well, this is awkward.
134
00:10:52,485 --> 00:10:54,695
I'd like you to sleep on it
over the weekend...
135
00:10:56,322 --> 00:10:58,491
...because you start full-time on Monday.
136
00:11:06,791 --> 00:11:11,003
This is how we find ourselves
completely out of control.
137
00:11:12,213 --> 00:11:15,716
The fugitive has already killed
a police officer that morning in Austin.
138
00:11:17,134 --> 00:11:19,553
He's taken two nine-millimeter rounds
in the ass,
139
00:11:19,637 --> 00:11:21,472
...grabbed a ten-year-old boy as a hostage,
140
00:11:21,555 --> 00:11:23,391
...and he's holed up
in a suburban neighborhood...
141
00:11:23,474 --> 00:11:25,601
...crawling with women and small children.
142
00:11:26,769 --> 00:11:28,687
Now we must focus on one thing:
143
00:11:29,355 --> 00:11:31,065
...de-escalation.
144
00:11:31,649 --> 00:11:35,319
San Antonio's chief of police arrives
and starts using a bullhorn,
145
00:11:35,403 --> 00:11:38,739
...which more than effectively
intimidates our hostage-taker.
146
00:11:40,199 --> 00:11:43,244
Coming at anyone with an attitude of
"I'm right, you're wrong..."
147
00:11:43,327 --> 00:11:45,454
...assumes that they're of rational mind.
148
00:11:47,623 --> 00:11:50,376
We must establish communication.
149
00:11:51,752 --> 00:11:54,880
Non-threatening communication.
150
00:11:55,756 --> 00:11:57,049
Ascertain demands,
151
00:11:57,133 --> 00:12:00,261
...concede nothing, reject nothing,
just listen.
152
00:12:01,804 --> 00:12:03,389
Listen to what he has to say.
153
00:12:05,391 --> 00:12:08,227
Try understanding him
instead of trying to dominate him.
154
00:12:09,228 --> 00:12:10,729
Look for common ground.
155
00:12:10,813 --> 00:12:12,815
Find commonality.
156
00:12:13,357 --> 00:12:17,153
And if it feels like you're buying time,
well... that's because you are.
157
00:12:17,695 --> 00:12:20,739
But it's the key
to making any perp feel heard.
158
00:12:20,823 --> 00:12:23,284
(CHIME SOUNDS)
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
159
00:12:23,367 --> 00:12:24,869
HOLDEN: Our goal is no body bags.
160
00:12:24,952 --> 00:12:27,329
That is the hostage negotiator win-win.
161
00:12:29,290 --> 00:12:31,876
And I'm in my office on Friday
for anyone who has questions...
162
00:12:31,959 --> 00:12:34,253
...about the psychological strategies exam.
163
00:12:43,095 --> 00:12:45,806
MAN: Wanton, indiscriminate murder.
164
00:12:45,890 --> 00:12:48,517
Seemingly random, serendipitous.
165
00:12:48,601 --> 00:12:50,269
Each one, extremely violent.
166
00:12:50,352 --> 00:12:52,980
No explanation. No apparent reason.
167
00:12:53,063 --> 00:12:54,607
They weren't sexually assaulted,
168
00:12:54,690 --> 00:12:56,650
...there was no attempt
to relieve them of valuables,
169
00:12:56,734 --> 00:12:58,360
...they didn't know their assailant.
170
00:12:58,903 --> 00:13:02,198
Robert Violante and Stacy Moskowitz
were making out in their car...
171
00:13:02,281 --> 00:13:05,493
...when David Berkowitz walked up
and shot them both point-blank.
172
00:13:06,368 --> 00:13:08,704
Berkowitz killed six people
over two summers,
173
00:13:08,787 --> 00:13:10,748
...wounding seven more. Why?
174
00:13:11,999 --> 00:13:14,376
Because a dog told him to do it.
175
00:13:15,753 --> 00:13:16,670
Now...
176
00:13:18,506 --> 00:13:22,259
...we can say that the guy's crazy,
or that he's pretending that he's crazy.
177
00:13:22,676 --> 00:13:25,346
But if we're looking for a motive
we can understand,
178
00:13:25,429 --> 00:13:27,306
...we suddenly find there is none.
179
00:13:27,890 --> 00:13:29,099
It's a void.
180
00:13:29,183 --> 00:13:30,518
It's a black hole.
181
00:13:36,232 --> 00:13:40,986
Forty years ago, your FBI was founded
hunting down John Dillinger,
182
00:13:41,445 --> 00:13:43,989
Baby Face Nelson, Machine Gun Kelly.
183
00:13:44,073 --> 00:13:46,742
Criminals who thumbed their noses
at society,
184
00:13:46,825 --> 00:13:49,078
...but were basically in it
for personal gain.
185
00:13:50,037 --> 00:13:53,999
Now, we have extreme violence
between strangers.
186
00:13:54,959 --> 00:13:56,502
Where do we go...
187
00:13:57,670 --> 00:14:00,005
...when motive becomes elusive?
188
00:14:09,515 --> 00:14:11,600
Excuse me, Professor Rathman?
189
00:14:13,852 --> 00:14:16,272
Holden Ford, Hostage Negotiation.
190
00:14:16,355 --> 00:14:17,565
Peter. Hi.
191
00:14:17,648 --> 00:14:21,277
I listened in on your class earlier.
What you were saying about crime today...
192
00:14:22,152 --> 00:14:23,863
I don't know, it really resonates.
193
00:14:23,946 --> 00:14:26,031
- Gets attention.
- Were you teaching this before Berkowitz?
194
00:14:26,115 --> 00:14:28,701
A version of it.
The headlines kind of fell into my lap.
195
00:14:28,784 --> 00:14:29,869
What got you started?
196
00:14:30,202 --> 00:14:32,621
Starkweather. Whitman.
Manson, of course.
197
00:14:32,705 --> 00:14:35,249
But Son of Sam kind of epitomizes now.
198
00:14:35,332 --> 00:14:39,420
It's as if... we don't know anymore
what moves people to kill one another.
199
00:14:39,503 --> 00:14:42,256
Used to be you find a victim
with 50 stab wounds,
200
00:14:42,339 --> 00:14:45,092
...you look for the jilted lover,
the ex-business partner.
201
00:14:45,342 --> 00:14:49,138
Now... it could be a random run-in
with a disgruntled mailman.
202
00:14:49,221 --> 00:14:52,558
It's a different era.
No more "Just the facts, ma'am."
203
00:14:52,641 --> 00:14:54,810
That's television. And reruns.
204
00:14:55,394 --> 00:14:57,479
- Crime has changed.
- Right.
205
00:14:58,898 --> 00:15:00,733
Do you... want to grab a beer?
206
00:15:02,192 --> 00:15:03,193
Yeah, okay.
207
00:15:04,153 --> 00:15:06,071
RATHMAN: Look at the unprecedented events...
208
00:15:06,155 --> 00:15:08,866
...that have occurred
in the past decade and a half.
209
00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:10,492
A president assassinated.
210
00:15:10,576 --> 00:15:13,245
Fighting an unpopular war
that we didn't win.
211
00:15:13,329 --> 00:15:15,748
National Guard killing
four college students.
212
00:15:15,831 --> 00:15:18,292
- You can hardly wrap your mind around it.
- Watergate.
213
00:15:18,375 --> 00:15:21,921
Our democracy is vanishing into what?
214
00:15:22,004 --> 00:15:23,672
Is that what all this is about?
215
00:15:23,923 --> 00:15:25,925
Just a response to turmoil?
216
00:15:26,008 --> 00:15:29,094
The government used to be, symbolically,
a parental institution.
217
00:15:29,178 --> 00:15:31,639
Now? It's a free-for-all.
218
00:15:31,722 --> 00:15:35,184
The world barely makes any sense,
so it follows that crime doesn't either.
219
00:15:35,267 --> 00:15:38,729
You and I could theorize all night,
but the truth is, I don't fucking know.
220
00:15:38,812 --> 00:15:41,023
- I don't know either.
- No one does.
221
00:15:41,106 --> 00:15:42,691
But we're supposed to, right?
222
00:15:42,775 --> 00:15:47,237
Sure, but here's the troubling thing:
no one's even asking the questions.
223
00:15:51,116 --> 00:15:52,034
We are.
224
00:15:52,701 --> 00:15:53,702
We are.
225
00:15:56,622 --> 00:15:57,915
Mm!
226
00:15:59,333 --> 00:16:02,586
Next time, let's discuss
Lee Harvey Oswald as Oedipus.
227
00:16:04,463 --> 00:16:05,589
- Thank you.
- Anytime.
228
00:16:17,893 --> 00:16:19,395
- Hey.
- Hey.
229
00:16:19,812 --> 00:16:21,063
What are you looking at?
230
00:16:21,814 --> 00:16:22,940
I like your outfit.
231
00:16:23,482 --> 00:16:25,901
What is that, a jumpsuit?
What do you call that?
232
00:16:25,985 --> 00:16:28,112
- This? I call it a jumpsuit.
- Stylish.
233
00:16:28,195 --> 00:16:30,698
What do you call that?
You look like a Mormon.
234
00:16:31,156 --> 00:16:32,282
You look like my dad.
235
00:16:32,366 --> 00:16:33,409
Is he a Mormon?
236
00:16:33,492 --> 00:16:34,910
No, but he looks like one.
237
00:16:34,994 --> 00:16:36,203
So does mine.
238
00:16:36,286 --> 00:16:38,622
He bought me this suit,
as a matter of fact.
239
00:16:38,706 --> 00:16:41,041
Did he buy you those nice shiny shoes?
240
00:16:41,458 --> 00:16:42,334
Yes.
241
00:16:42,918 --> 00:16:45,421
I have one brown pair and one black pair.
242
00:16:46,255 --> 00:16:48,590
I've got sneakers,
but I had to buy those myself.
243
00:16:48,674 --> 00:16:51,844
What kind of grown-up lets their parents
choose their clothes for them?
244
00:16:53,679 --> 00:16:56,682
- Are you coming on to me?
- How do you like my approach?
245
00:17:02,354 --> 00:17:03,981
You having a good time?
246
00:17:04,064 --> 00:17:05,733
- I will be.
- Huh!
247
00:17:05,816 --> 00:17:07,026
It's my birthday today.
248
00:17:07,109 --> 00:17:09,361
Happy birthday. How old are you?
249
00:17:09,445 --> 00:17:12,197
- Twenty-four.
- You don't look old enough to be in here.
250
00:17:12,281 --> 00:17:14,533
- What are you, a narc?
- FBI, actually.
251
00:17:16,035 --> 00:17:17,786
Special Agent Holden Ford.
252
00:17:17,870 --> 00:17:19,204
Wow.
253
00:17:20,998 --> 00:17:23,042
- Can you tell?
- Everybody can tell.
254
00:17:23,625 --> 00:17:24,501
You got a gun?
255
00:17:24,585 --> 00:17:26,795
I have one,
but I'm not gonna show it to you.
256
00:17:26,879 --> 00:17:27,796
Nuts.
257
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:31,175
I'm a teacher.
Right up the road at Quantico.
258
00:17:31,258 --> 00:17:32,384
What do you teach?
259
00:17:33,260 --> 00:17:36,263
Hostage negotiation, such as it is.
260
00:17:36,346 --> 00:17:39,183
- Holy cow.
- You really think I look like a narc?
261
00:17:39,266 --> 00:17:41,435
- Are you kidding?
- I don't see it.
262
00:17:41,518 --> 00:17:43,228
You stick out like a sore thumb.
263
00:17:44,646 --> 00:17:48,400
Well, I'm not here to...
infiltrate the Black Panthers.
264
00:17:48,734 --> 00:17:52,404
Those guys are hardly Black Panthers.
They're engineering students.
265
00:17:52,863 --> 00:17:54,323
You should go talk to them.
266
00:17:54,406 --> 00:17:57,367
I'm sure the FBI's in need
of some great-looking black dudes.
267
00:17:57,451 --> 00:18:00,621
- You've got the wrong idea about me.
- You gonna book me?
268
00:18:00,704 --> 00:18:01,872
Maybe.
269
00:18:01,955 --> 00:18:02,998
Handcuffs?
270
00:18:08,170 --> 00:18:10,506
I'm here to see this really cool band
from Detroit.
271
00:18:11,048 --> 00:18:12,424
You ever been to Detroit?
272
00:18:13,217 --> 00:18:14,760
Yes, actually. I was a...
273
00:18:18,430 --> 00:18:20,891
I was a brick agent there
for a couple of years.
274
00:18:21,308 --> 00:18:24,645
I can't believe they're here.
They used to play PJ's in Corktown.
275
00:18:25,395 --> 00:18:26,814
- You know Corktown?
- Sure.
276
00:18:26,897 --> 00:18:29,358
- It looked like a furniture store.
- They always sold liquor.
277
00:18:29,441 --> 00:18:32,820
The whole furniture thing was just a front
that started during Prohibition.
278
00:18:32,903 --> 00:18:34,321
Where are you really from?
279
00:18:34,863 --> 00:18:36,532
(SIGHS) Everywhere.
280
00:18:36,615 --> 00:18:38,283
But the Midwest, right?
281
00:18:38,367 --> 00:18:41,328
I grew up in the Midwest,
but I was born in Brooklyn.
282
00:18:41,411 --> 00:18:43,789
You do not seem like a guy from New York.
283
00:18:44,873 --> 00:18:47,042
You don't seem like a girl from Corktown.
284
00:18:50,129 --> 00:18:51,380
Buy you a drink?
285
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,511
(ROCK MUSIC PLAYING)
(VOCALIZING)
286
00:20:56,463 --> 00:20:59,007
(MUSIC CONTINUES)
287
00:21:36,837 --> 00:21:39,047
- HOLDEN: What's your name?
- Debbie.
288
00:21:42,384 --> 00:21:44,803
- You want some pot?
- Is that a trick question?
289
00:21:44,886 --> 00:21:45,887
Come on.
290
00:21:46,263 --> 00:21:48,390
Are you serious?
No, that's completely inappropriate.
291
00:21:48,473 --> 00:21:50,225
Come on, it's my birthday.
292
00:21:50,309 --> 00:21:52,811
Oh, Jesus, you're not gonna
drink and drive, are you?
293
00:21:52,894 --> 00:21:54,354
You've been plying me with booze.
294
00:21:54,438 --> 00:21:56,732
Don't you think
that's kind of a mixed message?
295
00:22:01,069 --> 00:22:01,987
You coming?
296
00:22:06,033 --> 00:22:07,909
(ENGINE STARTS)
297
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,334
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
298
00:22:15,417 --> 00:22:17,544
(ROCK MUSIC PLAYS SOFTLY)
299
00:22:20,005 --> 00:22:23,383
So what does a brick agent
get up to in Detroit?
300
00:22:23,884 --> 00:22:25,761
Mostly corralling Army deserters.
301
00:22:26,595 --> 00:22:29,097
Guys AWOL from Vietnam
trying to get to Canada.
302
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:31,600
Too scared to go back.
303
00:22:32,267 --> 00:22:34,603
Young guys. Same age I was.
304
00:22:35,103 --> 00:22:36,688
So you were a snitch?
305
00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:40,942
There's worse things than being a snitch.
306
00:22:44,029 --> 00:22:46,615
Maybe this'll loosen you up.
307
00:22:47,949 --> 00:22:49,743
(HOLDEN EXHALES)
308
00:22:50,243 --> 00:22:51,870
God, you are making me nervous.
309
00:22:52,704 --> 00:22:54,289
You are such a goody-goody.
310
00:22:55,874 --> 00:22:57,709
What are you, some kind of honey trap?
311
00:22:58,210 --> 00:23:00,253
I've been warned to watch out
for women like you.
312
00:23:02,005 --> 00:23:03,215
You mean normal ones?
313
00:23:08,595 --> 00:23:10,305
(SIGHS)
314
00:23:10,889 --> 00:23:13,475
So just put your mouth over the hole...
315
00:23:16,311 --> 00:23:17,938
(EXHALES) Okay. (CLEARS THROAT)
316
00:23:21,942 --> 00:23:23,401
- And inhale.
- (BUBBLING)
317
00:23:29,533 --> 00:23:30,617
(COUGHS)
318
00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:32,119
(COUGHING LOUDLY)
319
00:23:33,995 --> 00:23:35,288
(CONTINUES COUGHING)
320
00:23:35,372 --> 00:23:38,125
(GUNFIRE)
321
00:23:41,753 --> 00:23:43,171
(PANTING)
322
00:23:44,756 --> 00:23:47,092
(LOUD GUNFIRE)
323
00:23:47,175 --> 00:23:49,136
MAN: I don't want to talk
to somebody trying to calm me.
324
00:23:49,219 --> 00:23:50,971
- Get somebody in charge.
- I am in charge!
325
00:23:51,054 --> 00:23:54,850
I don't want to talk to some flunky pig
trying to calm me. What's he doing?
326
00:23:54,933 --> 00:23:57,134
- Will you get back over there?
- What are they there for?
327
00:23:57,144 --> 00:23:59,771
Will you get the fuck back?
Get back there, will ya?
328
00:23:59,855 --> 00:24:01,189
- Look at him!
- Get over there!
329
00:24:01,273 --> 00:24:03,900
- Go back there, man!
- Get over there, will ya?
330
00:24:03,984 --> 00:24:06,945
He wants to kill me so bad,
he can taste it! All right?
331
00:24:07,028 --> 00:24:09,656
Attica! Attica! Attica!
332
00:24:10,699 --> 00:24:13,869
- Attica! Attica!
- (CROWD CHEERING)
333
00:24:13,952 --> 00:24:16,997
Attica! Attica! Attica!
334
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,709
MAN: I was so confused,
I was doing insane things.
335
00:24:22,252 --> 00:24:23,670
What sort of things, Leon?
336
00:24:28,592 --> 00:24:29,718
After the wedding...
337
00:24:31,052 --> 00:24:33,471
I ran off for ten days to Atlantic City.
338
00:24:34,973 --> 00:24:36,516
Sonny was frantic.
339
00:24:37,267 --> 00:24:38,560
He knew I'd been drinking,
340
00:24:38,643 --> 00:24:40,979
...he didn't know where I was,
who I was with.
341
00:24:42,564 --> 00:24:45,317
(STUTTERING) Well,
I couldn't explain the things I did.
342
00:24:46,234 --> 00:24:47,861
So I went to a psychiatrist...
343
00:24:48,528 --> 00:24:49,654
...who told me...
344
00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:54,242
...that I was a woman
trapped in a man's body.
345
00:25:01,416 --> 00:25:03,668
HOLDEN: So they were both homosexuals,
346
00:25:03,752 --> 00:25:05,003
...but he was married,
347
00:25:05,086 --> 00:25:08,798
...and his boyfriend wanted to become
a woman, which is confusing.
348
00:25:08,882 --> 00:25:11,301
- You really gotta get out more, Holden.
- It was mixed up.
349
00:25:11,384 --> 00:25:14,012
- You didn't like it?
- No, I really liked it.
350
00:25:14,095 --> 00:25:16,765
It was just so... sad.
351
00:25:16,848 --> 00:25:20,310
He was obviously very disturbed,
but somehow I liked him.
352
00:25:20,393 --> 00:25:22,604
- Yeah, you have empathy.
- Yeah.
353
00:25:23,355 --> 00:25:24,439
Empathy.
354
00:25:24,981 --> 00:25:27,776
I really liked the dialogue.
It was just very real.
355
00:25:27,859 --> 00:25:29,152
When I started at the Academy,
356
00:25:29,236 --> 00:25:32,113
...they would send women out of the room
if there was any of that talk.
357
00:25:32,197 --> 00:25:34,449
They called it "deviant terminology."
358
00:25:34,532 --> 00:25:36,785
We even had a list of words
we had to memorize.
359
00:25:36,868 --> 00:25:38,578
Really? Which words?
360
00:25:39,955 --> 00:25:40,997
You know...
361
00:25:41,081 --> 00:25:44,459
...fuck, shit, pussy... blow job.
362
00:25:46,545 --> 00:25:47,379
Oh, fuck.
363
00:25:48,004 --> 00:25:48,922
Shit.
364
00:25:50,131 --> 00:25:51,132
(BOTH MOANING)
365
00:25:51,633 --> 00:25:53,051
Finger my pussy.
366
00:25:54,886 --> 00:25:57,097
Finger my pussy, I'll give you a blow job.
367
00:25:57,597 --> 00:25:59,766
(DEBBIE LAUGHS)
368
00:26:00,850 --> 00:26:02,811
All the bad words used in a sentence.
369
00:26:07,857 --> 00:26:10,568
(MOANING)
370
00:26:11,361 --> 00:26:13,363
MAN: It's classic he said-she said.
371
00:26:13,446 --> 00:26:17,450
He says she hit her head on the bedpost
having consensual sexual intercourse.
372
00:26:17,534 --> 00:26:18,785
She says he knocked her out...
373
00:26:18,868 --> 00:26:21,121
...and dragged her into this motel room
to rape her.
374
00:26:21,204 --> 00:26:25,166
We know she didn't hit her head
on that bedpost because we've measured.
375
00:26:25,250 --> 00:26:27,043
SHEPARD: Where do you propose
you would go?
376
00:26:27,127 --> 00:26:29,045
University of Virginia in Charlottesville.
377
00:26:29,129 --> 00:26:30,130
Studying what?
378
00:26:30,213 --> 00:26:33,675
Contemporary Applied Criminal Psychology.
Ratchet things up a notch.
379
00:26:33,758 --> 00:26:35,760
What exactly is it
you think you're missing out on?
380
00:26:35,844 --> 00:26:37,679
We need to know
the current academic thinking.
381
00:26:37,762 --> 00:26:39,723
No, you don't want to rely
on academics, Holden.
382
00:26:39,806 --> 00:26:42,225
I'm not saying rely, just get updated.
383
00:26:42,309 --> 00:26:43,643
We just got updated.
384
00:26:43,727 --> 00:26:46,980
It's all in the library.
1972, everything was new.
385
00:26:47,063 --> 00:26:48,773
That was five years ago.
386
00:26:49,941 --> 00:26:51,276
What's the thinking now?
387
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:52,569
Okay, look.
388
00:26:53,528 --> 00:26:56,072
There have been some fine
psychological studies over the years,
389
00:26:56,156 --> 00:26:59,701
...but these are people
who don't understand the criminal mind.
390
00:26:59,784 --> 00:27:03,121
They understand their corner of the world,
which is a very small corner.
391
00:27:03,204 --> 00:27:05,540
Well, they must know something.
392
00:27:10,295 --> 00:27:11,755
I'm going to level with you.
393
00:27:13,048 --> 00:27:16,384
I'm going to tell you something
I really don't want you to repeat.
394
00:27:17,093 --> 00:27:22,182
As far as the Bureau is concerned,
psychology is for backroom boys.
395
00:27:22,265 --> 00:27:25,477
- (CHIME SOUNDS)
- You understand what I'm trying to say?
396
00:27:27,270 --> 00:27:28,980
No. What's a "backroom boy"?
397
00:27:30,774 --> 00:27:32,317
It's just frowned upon.
398
00:27:34,652 --> 00:27:36,738
We should be using every resource we can.
399
00:27:38,323 --> 00:27:41,826
Talking to the smartest people we find
from the broadest possible spectrum.
400
00:27:41,910 --> 00:27:44,371
- And we do.
- Otherwise, it's like the military.
401
00:27:44,454 --> 00:27:46,956
- Hey, we recruited Elvis.
- So did the military.
402
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:48,792
The King doesn't do it for you?
403
00:27:48,875 --> 00:27:50,960
Hoover died over five years ago,
404
00:27:51,044 --> 00:27:54,881
...and we're still recruiting accountants
and lawyers like it's 1946.
405
00:27:54,964 --> 00:27:57,133
Actually, recruitment has tapered off.
406
00:27:57,217 --> 00:28:00,261
- We can't get accountants.
- Well, then we're in trouble.
407
00:28:01,054 --> 00:28:03,348
(SIGHS) All right. I'll scratch your back
408
00:28:03,431 --> 00:28:05,642
...and recommend funding for you
to audit a few classes,
409
00:28:05,725 --> 00:28:09,020
...but you will be expected to use
the opportunity for recruitment.
410
00:28:09,938 --> 00:28:11,898
Speakers, lecturers, great minds.
411
00:28:11,981 --> 00:28:15,527
- Are you sure you want me doing that?
- You're smart, you're idealistic...
412
00:28:15,735 --> 00:28:16,903
...more than a little sensitive.
413
00:28:17,487 --> 00:28:18,655
They're gonna love you.
414
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,258
(BELL TOLLING)
415
00:28:42,804 --> 00:28:45,306
- Hare Krishna.
- Hare Krishna.
416
00:28:46,558 --> 00:28:49,310
- Hare Krishna.
- MAN: And then, in 1872,
417
00:28:49,394 --> 00:28:54,274
Italian physician Cesare Lombroso
drags us out of the Dark Ages...
418
00:28:54,357 --> 00:28:57,068
...and launches the scientific era
in criminology...
419
00:28:57,736 --> 00:29:01,072
...by differentiating five criminal classes:
420
00:29:02,991 --> 00:29:04,284
...the born criminal,
421
00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:06,911
...insane criminal,
422
00:29:07,787 --> 00:29:09,414
...criminal by passion,
423
00:29:10,457 --> 00:29:11,875
...habitual criminal,
424
00:29:12,250 --> 00:29:14,919
...and the occasional criminal.
425
00:29:15,003 --> 00:29:17,630
In other words,
there are those that are born that way...
426
00:29:18,131 --> 00:29:20,425
...and those who become that way.
427
00:29:20,508 --> 00:29:22,427
And in 1965,
there's this other breakthrough.
428
00:29:22,510 --> 00:29:24,345
This criminal psychology research project...
429
00:29:24,429 --> 00:29:28,266
...at Bellevue psychiatric hospital
in New York couched it like this:
430
00:29:28,349 --> 00:29:31,269
...personality and character...
431
00:29:31,352 --> 00:29:35,690
...far outweigh the presence
of psychotic or defective diagnoses.
432
00:29:35,774 --> 00:29:38,526
In other words, by extrapolation...
433
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:40,820
...are criminals born...
434
00:29:42,322 --> 00:29:44,115
...or are they formed?
435
00:30:04,969 --> 00:30:06,137
Do you mind if I sit?
436
00:30:06,596 --> 00:30:07,430
You're sitting.
437
00:30:11,643 --> 00:30:13,770
You know, I wasn't aware
of that project at Bellevue.
438
00:30:13,853 --> 00:30:15,688
Well, you should be.
439
00:30:16,689 --> 00:30:19,400
Where I come from,
criminals are always born that way.
440
00:30:19,484 --> 00:30:21,319
Some people
will never stop believing that.
441
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:23,921
- It's too easy.
- It lets us off the hook.
442
00:30:23,988 --> 00:30:25,865
Well, essentially we're a puritan nation.
443
00:30:25,949 --> 00:30:29,202
We blame all our problems
on a minority of bad apples.
444
00:30:29,285 --> 00:30:31,704
What's your name again?
I'm sorry. Is it Leon?
445
00:30:31,788 --> 00:30:32,747
Buchanan. (SCOFFS)
446
00:30:33,790 --> 00:30:34,666
Leo.
447
00:30:34,749 --> 00:30:35,583
Holden.
448
00:30:36,376 --> 00:30:38,503
- Holden Ford.
- I know who you are.
449
00:30:39,462 --> 00:30:40,463
Everybody does.
450
00:30:40,547 --> 00:30:41,506
Yeah.
451
00:30:42,715 --> 00:30:44,717
I've noticed some of the looks
I've been getting.
452
00:30:44,801 --> 00:30:47,679
Funny looks isn't a federal offense...
yet.
453
00:30:48,346 --> 00:30:49,848
Yeah, they're just curious.
454
00:30:50,306 --> 00:30:51,474
Well, I'm not a spy.
455
00:30:51,891 --> 00:30:53,226
This isn't some kind of cover.
456
00:30:53,309 --> 00:30:57,105
Good. Because that...
would have been a really pathetic cover.
457
00:30:58,064 --> 00:31:01,234
I'm actually an instructor too,
but I'm just here to learn.
458
00:31:01,317 --> 00:31:04,195
And I'm here to talk to people like you.
459
00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:05,697
What do you want to talk about?
460
00:31:05,780 --> 00:31:08,157
I want to start a dialogue with you.
461
00:31:08,241 --> 00:31:09,409
Would be that okay?
462
00:31:10,201 --> 00:31:11,578
A dialogue about what?
463
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,874
I'm an instructor in the Bureau's training
and recruitment program out of Quantico.
464
00:31:15,957 --> 00:31:18,793
And we really need to hear
from people like you.
465
00:31:18,877 --> 00:31:22,964
I'm sorry, are you trying to recruit me?
466
00:31:23,047 --> 00:31:25,717
Just to hear your perspectives
and your insights.
467
00:31:28,094 --> 00:31:30,722
(LAUGHS) I understand...
468
00:31:32,765 --> 00:31:33,808
...perfectly.
469
00:31:36,311 --> 00:31:39,731
I'm sorry. You call yourself
a professor of criminal psychology.
470
00:31:40,315 --> 00:31:43,276
But you won't even talk
to the educational arm of the FBI?
471
00:31:43,359 --> 00:31:44,319
It's just...
472
00:31:45,236 --> 00:31:46,613
...a sign of the times, man.
473
00:31:48,698 --> 00:31:51,451
- DEBBIE: Lost your appetite?
- HOLDEN: Do these fucking hippies...
474
00:31:51,534 --> 00:31:55,246
...seriously believe that they're worthy
of an enormously costly, labor-intensive...
475
00:31:55,330 --> 00:31:57,165
...federal surveillance operation?
476
00:31:57,248 --> 00:31:59,292
It sounds like the contempt is mutual.
477
00:31:59,667 --> 00:32:03,379
Don't you think that the traditional
counterculture-law enforcement enmity...
478
00:32:03,463 --> 00:32:05,089
...is a little old hat by now?
479
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:08,760
They'll never forgive you
for putting a tail on John and Yoko.
480
00:32:09,594 --> 00:32:13,056
Frankly, I'm surprised to have aroused
such a degree of fucking neuroses...
481
00:32:13,139 --> 00:32:15,183
...amongst supposedly intelligent people.
482
00:32:15,266 --> 00:32:17,560
Please, they're flattering themselves.
483
00:32:20,146 --> 00:32:22,023
(WHISPERS)
They think you're wearing a wire.
484
00:32:25,485 --> 00:32:27,278
There. You're one of us now.
485
00:32:27,362 --> 00:32:31,115
Okay, everything's all right.
Come on. Right. Yeah. Okay.
486
00:32:33,242 --> 00:32:35,119
- Come on out, Sonny.
- They're too close!
487
00:32:35,203 --> 00:32:37,830
Come on, get back!
What the fuck are you doing? Get back!
488
00:32:37,914 --> 00:32:38,873
Get them back.
489
00:32:38,957 --> 00:32:40,833
- Get back, okay?
- Come here.
490
00:32:41,542 --> 00:32:42,835
Come on out.
491
00:32:42,919 --> 00:32:45,046
Now take a look at this. Come on.
492
00:32:45,588 --> 00:32:47,340
Hey, look. Look up here. Look.
493
00:32:48,591 --> 00:32:49,550
Look.
494
00:32:50,551 --> 00:32:52,136
Look over here. Huh?
495
00:32:56,933 --> 00:32:59,394
Over there. Look.
You got everything here, okay?
496
00:33:09,529 --> 00:33:12,073
Okay. So what are they doing wrong?
497
00:33:12,657 --> 00:33:15,743
- They're making him mad.
- They're making him scared.
498
00:33:16,202 --> 00:33:19,956
- So?
- We do not want him scared.
499
00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:22,625
We want him calm.
500
00:33:22,709 --> 00:33:25,420
(FILM REEL PLAYING IN FAST SPEED)
501
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,885
Let me call and see what they say.
I'll talk to them and ask, all right?
502
00:33:32,969 --> 00:33:35,013
Then we'll see.
Anything else I can give you?
503
00:33:39,058 --> 00:33:41,477
Yeah, I want you
to bring my wife down here.
504
00:33:42,395 --> 00:33:43,771
Okay, what do you give us?
505
00:33:44,022 --> 00:33:45,023
What do you want?
506
00:33:47,358 --> 00:33:51,946
The guy is robbing a bank
to pay for a sex change for his boyfriend.
507
00:33:52,030 --> 00:33:54,365
He wants a helicopter with a piano.
508
00:33:54,907 --> 00:33:58,453
But more than anything,
he wants to talk to his wife.
509
00:34:00,246 --> 00:34:02,665
- Complicated, right?
- MAN: Yeah.
510
00:34:03,082 --> 00:34:04,417
HOLDEN: Trust me on this.
511
00:34:05,251 --> 00:34:08,713
Always expect complicated.
512
00:34:08,796 --> 00:34:10,423
Okay, I need you to concentrate.
513
00:34:10,506 --> 00:34:13,885
Think of an opening salvo,
then think where it could lead.
514
00:34:14,552 --> 00:34:15,887
No right or wrong answers,
515
00:34:15,970 --> 00:34:18,890
...just use your imagination
and see where it takes you.
516
00:34:19,348 --> 00:34:21,142
Start whenever you like. Go ahead.
517
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:26,898
All right. I'm asking you
to put the gun down, Mike.
518
00:34:26,981 --> 00:34:28,858
No way. Kiss my black ass, Mark.
519
00:34:28,941 --> 00:34:30,234
Wait, what?
520
00:34:30,777 --> 00:34:33,738
For the purpose of this exercise,
I'm imagining I'm Negro.
521
00:34:35,448 --> 00:34:39,285
That's good. That's fine. Keep it going.
Just whatever comes into your head.
522
00:34:40,411 --> 00:34:41,412
MARK: Okay.
523
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,082
Then fuck you!
I asked you to put that gun down.
524
00:34:44,624 --> 00:34:46,542
No, fuck you,
you dumb cracker motherfucker.
525
00:34:46,626 --> 00:34:48,294
Wait, wait a minute. What is all that?
526
00:34:48,377 --> 00:34:49,504
It's jive talk.
527
00:34:49,587 --> 00:34:51,839
We don't need to get into that.
Forget vernacular.
528
00:34:51,923 --> 00:34:54,300
In real life,
people just press their demands.
529
00:34:54,383 --> 00:34:55,301
All right?
530
00:34:56,385 --> 00:34:57,637
Um... (CLEARS THROAT)
531
00:34:58,763 --> 00:35:01,182
Uh... put the gun down, Steve.
532
00:35:01,766 --> 00:35:04,477
We brought your children to see you.
533
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:05,520
You what?
534
00:35:05,603 --> 00:35:10,608
Oh, my God. I lost custody.
I haven't seen my children in years.
535
00:35:11,776 --> 00:35:12,652
HOLDEN: Okay, good.
536
00:35:13,694 --> 00:35:17,615
Important not to talk to a divorced man
about his children. Different tactic.
537
00:35:20,284 --> 00:35:23,454
All right, I asked nicely.
Now put the fucking gun down.
538
00:35:23,538 --> 00:35:25,456
- Why don't you make me, faggot?
- MARK: What?!
539
00:35:25,915 --> 00:35:27,250
I'm no faggot, motherfucker!
540
00:35:27,333 --> 00:35:29,710
Okay, let's dial it back a little.
541
00:35:29,794 --> 00:35:31,796
Excuse me. What is the point of this?
542
00:35:31,879 --> 00:35:33,131
HOLDEN: Great question.
543
00:35:33,214 --> 00:35:35,800
Psychologically preparing you for reality.
544
00:35:35,883 --> 00:35:38,261
And the reality is,
you have to talk to them.
545
00:35:38,344 --> 00:35:41,013
Somebody demands the impossible,
you can't just shoot him.
546
00:35:41,097 --> 00:35:42,723
Then why have so much firearms training?
547
00:35:42,807 --> 00:35:45,810
Well, because that is a tactical response
for when all else fails.
548
00:35:45,893 --> 00:35:48,054
But if local law enforcement
can't shut something down,
549
00:35:48,104 --> 00:35:50,606
...then it has required a tactical response.
550
00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:53,109
Okay, but wouldn't you like
to try something different?
551
00:35:53,317 --> 00:35:55,987
Or would you rather use firearms
all the time?
552
00:35:57,572 --> 00:35:59,991
- I'd kind of rather use firearms.
- Why?
553
00:36:01,576 --> 00:36:02,535
Seems safer?
554
00:36:03,035 --> 00:36:05,371
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
555
00:36:06,956 --> 00:36:09,584
Holden, I enjoyed that immensely.
What do you call that?
556
00:36:09,667 --> 00:36:12,587
It's just role-playing
in a simulated hostage situation.
557
00:36:12,670 --> 00:36:14,213
- Stimulated?
- Simulated.
558
00:36:14,297 --> 00:36:16,591
All that profanity,
is that an academic thing?
559
00:36:16,674 --> 00:36:19,135
They're improvising.
They're learning to create a dialogue.
560
00:36:19,218 --> 00:36:21,220
How is all that cursing
creating a dialogue?
561
00:36:21,304 --> 00:36:22,763
It's not really about the cursing.
562
00:36:22,847 --> 00:36:25,933
I'm sure it's all quite modern
and fashionable in academic circles,
563
00:36:26,017 --> 00:36:28,144
...but it seems very theatrical to me.
564
00:36:28,227 --> 00:36:30,104
Well, in criminal psych,
role-playing exercises...
565
00:36:30,188 --> 00:36:32,899
...are considered a valuable tool,
with or without the cursing.
566
00:36:32,982 --> 00:36:35,693
I think we have enough exercises here
at the Academy.
567
00:36:36,194 --> 00:36:38,112
If you're going to start
implementing new ones,
568
00:36:38,196 --> 00:36:40,156
...talk to somebody
in the Behavioral Science Unit.
569
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:41,073
They can help?
570
00:36:41,157 --> 00:36:44,327
They can go over the soundness
of the psychology. That's their thing.
571
00:36:44,410 --> 00:36:45,786
Okay, good idea.
572
00:36:45,870 --> 00:36:47,955
- Why don't I set that up?
- Okay.
573
00:36:48,039 --> 00:36:49,582
Thank you, yes.
574
00:36:49,665 --> 00:36:52,210
(CHATTERING)
575
00:37:06,265 --> 00:37:08,392
Holden, right? Holden Ford?
576
00:37:08,476 --> 00:37:09,435
Hi.
577
00:37:09,518 --> 00:37:11,395
Bill Tench. Behavioral Science.
578
00:37:11,479 --> 00:37:13,147
Oh, great to meet you.
579
00:37:13,731 --> 00:37:16,484
- You had a beer with Peter Rathman?
- Interesting guy.
580
00:37:16,984 --> 00:37:19,737
I was kind of disturbed by what he said.
581
00:37:19,820 --> 00:37:20,738
You were, huh?
582
00:37:21,864 --> 00:37:24,450
- Can we sit?
- Yes. Please.
583
00:37:30,706 --> 00:37:33,209
- Smoke?
- Oh, uh...
584
00:37:33,292 --> 00:37:34,752
I don't smoke when I eat.
585
00:37:34,835 --> 00:37:36,087
Want to go outside?
586
00:37:37,713 --> 00:37:39,548
I don't smoke when I don't eat either.
587
00:37:43,844 --> 00:37:46,138
So did Shepard talk to you about my thing?
588
00:37:46,389 --> 00:37:47,431
He did his best.
589
00:37:48,432 --> 00:37:49,433
What does that mean?
590
00:37:50,142 --> 00:37:52,687
- He can be pretty old school.
- (SCOFFS)
591
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:57,692
I call this place "the country club,"
because, you know,
592
00:37:57,775 --> 00:37:59,694
...it can be a little starchy sometimes.
593
00:38:00,569 --> 00:38:01,821
I hear that.
594
00:38:02,238 --> 00:38:03,572
(CLATTERING)
(APPLAUSE)
595
00:38:03,656 --> 00:38:05,241
You went back to college, right?
596
00:38:05,866 --> 00:38:06,867
UVA.
597
00:38:07,868 --> 00:38:09,829
How old are you, 26, 27?
598
00:38:09,912 --> 00:38:10,871
Twenty-nine.
599
00:38:11,956 --> 00:38:13,040
That's interesting.
600
00:38:13,541 --> 00:38:15,334
Lot of guys your age
don't want to go back to school...
601
00:38:15,418 --> 00:38:18,004
...because they feel
it undermines their authority.
602
00:38:18,629 --> 00:38:21,382
I was hoping
it would give me some authority.
603
00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:24,176
He's got you doing recruitment, right?
604
00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:28,723
Yeah, well, I'm there,
so I might as well make myself useful.
605
00:38:29,849 --> 00:38:31,889
Most guys don't want to get stuck
doing recruitment.
606
00:38:31,934 --> 00:38:33,936
They're busy working their way upwards.
607
00:38:34,478 --> 00:38:36,689
I guess I'm busy working my way sideways.
608
00:38:37,690 --> 00:38:40,943
You are what they call a "blue flamer."
You know what that is?
609
00:38:42,445 --> 00:38:43,529
No. What does that mean?
610
00:38:43,612 --> 00:38:44,905
You're so eager to do good,
611
00:38:44,989 --> 00:38:47,908
...you have a big, blue flame
shooting out of your asshole.
612
00:38:48,743 --> 00:38:51,662
Oh... is that bad?
613
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:54,623
Just take it slow.
You'll get there in the end.
614
00:38:56,667 --> 00:38:58,919
I'm just trying to be a better instructor.
615
00:39:00,796 --> 00:39:03,507
Right. Well, I was thinking about that.
616
00:39:04,675 --> 00:39:06,510
I started this thing
a couple of years ago.
617
00:39:06,594 --> 00:39:09,680
I go on the road and give classes
in various police departments...
618
00:39:09,764 --> 00:39:12,516
...from Buffalo, New York
to San Diego, California.
619
00:39:12,975 --> 00:39:15,455
There's a million cops out there
who want to know what we know.
620
00:39:15,936 --> 00:39:19,023
So I go to them, give them a distillation
of what we teach here,
621
00:39:19,106 --> 00:39:20,746
...and they tell me what they've been doing.
622
00:39:20,775 --> 00:39:21,859
They learn something,
623
00:39:21,942 --> 00:39:25,321
...and I learn something firsthand
by getting involved on their level.
624
00:39:25,988 --> 00:39:27,365
But it's a big job, you know?
625
00:39:27,448 --> 00:39:29,617
I'm up to my neck
in local law enforcement.
626
00:39:32,411 --> 00:39:33,996
Would you want some help with that?
627
00:39:36,540 --> 00:39:38,042
Maybe we could help each other.
628
00:39:41,587 --> 00:39:45,383
(MOANING, PANTING)
629
00:39:50,346 --> 00:39:51,305
What?
630
00:39:51,389 --> 00:39:52,264
Nothing.
631
00:39:57,103 --> 00:39:58,562
Don't be shy.
632
00:39:59,063 --> 00:40:00,189
Did you orgasm?
633
00:40:00,272 --> 00:40:01,690
Did I orgasm?
634
00:40:01,774 --> 00:40:02,775
What?
635
00:40:03,359 --> 00:40:06,821
- I can't believe you're from New York.
- You could be faking, right?
636
00:40:07,071 --> 00:40:08,906
You can't tell if a woman is faking?
637
00:40:08,989 --> 00:40:11,158
I can't even tell
if a woman is interested.
638
00:40:11,826 --> 00:40:14,954
But you can tell if somebody's lying,
like a suspect.
639
00:40:15,037 --> 00:40:16,747
That is not the same thing.
640
00:40:16,831 --> 00:40:18,707
- Pretend I'm a suspect.
- (SCOFFS)
641
00:40:18,791 --> 00:40:21,293
Use your powers of deduction, Agent Ford.
642
00:40:21,377 --> 00:40:22,420
(SIGHS)
643
00:40:22,503 --> 00:40:26,257
How can you figure out the criminal mind
if you can't figure out your girlfriend?
644
00:40:27,675 --> 00:40:28,926
Are you my girlfriend?
645
00:40:29,343 --> 00:40:32,847
Wait. Is this another of those things
you just can't tell?
646
00:40:33,389 --> 00:40:35,599
I don't know. Are you?
647
00:40:36,183 --> 00:40:38,769
What do you need,
an exchange of rings over milkshakes?
648
00:40:38,853 --> 00:40:40,771
I just didn't want to presume anything.
649
00:40:41,230 --> 00:40:43,649
Really, Holden,
sometimes you're like a monk.
650
00:40:44,525 --> 00:40:47,570
Surely people in law enforcement
shouldn't be so naive.
651
00:40:47,653 --> 00:40:49,238
Does it make you uncomfortable...
652
00:40:50,531 --> 00:40:52,032
...sleeping with a federal agent?
653
00:40:52,116 --> 00:40:53,701
(LAUGHS)
654
00:40:54,785 --> 00:40:56,203
Where did that come from?
655
00:40:58,747 --> 00:41:00,082
Does it turn you on?
656
00:41:01,625 --> 00:41:02,793
Not at all.
657
00:41:08,090 --> 00:41:09,467
Then why are you with me?
658
00:41:10,801 --> 00:41:12,303
You're smart.
659
00:41:14,930 --> 00:41:16,474
You're nice.
660
00:41:17,349 --> 00:41:18,559
(MUTTERS) Okay.
661
00:41:19,727 --> 00:41:21,896
What? Those are good things.
662
00:41:24,732 --> 00:41:26,817
And you're devastating.
663
00:41:26,901 --> 00:41:28,235
(HOLDEN CHUCKLES)
664
00:41:28,319 --> 00:41:29,445
Well, thank you.
665
00:41:30,237 --> 00:41:31,655
Oh, come on, you're not leaving.
666
00:41:32,907 --> 00:41:34,283
I have to get up early.
667
00:41:34,867 --> 00:41:36,577
Tomorrow's the first day of school.
668
00:41:37,161 --> 00:41:42,917
MAN: (ON RADIO) Ninety-nine plus KFMH,
Muscatine, Davenport in Iowa Central...
669
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,169
(CHANGING STATIONS)
670
00:41:46,378 --> 00:41:53,840
♫ Toto's "Hold the Line" playing ♫
671
00:41:53,928 --> 00:41:55,012
♪ Hold the line ♪
672
00:41:58,849 --> 00:42:01,685
TENCH: Today might be a baptism of fire.
They're gonna be on edge.
673
00:42:01,769 --> 00:42:03,354
- Just follow my lead.
- What happened?
674
00:42:03,771 --> 00:42:05,898
They caught a big case
and they're spooked.
675
00:42:05,981 --> 00:42:07,441
Don't talk to any reporters.
676
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:11,237
And please, for God's sake,
don't say we're from the FBI.
677
00:42:14,865 --> 00:42:18,452
♪ It's not in the words ♪
♪ That you told me, girl ♪
678
00:42:24,208 --> 00:42:27,169
Excuse me, gentlemen.
I'm from the Fairfield Chronicle.
679
00:42:27,253 --> 00:42:29,380
You gentlemen are from the FBI,
is that right?
680
00:42:29,463 --> 00:42:31,048
How are things with the Jeffries case?
681
00:42:31,131 --> 00:42:32,758
No idea what you're talking about.
682
00:42:32,841 --> 00:42:34,426
The Jeffries case. Ada Jeffries.
683
00:42:34,510 --> 00:42:37,596
- You can come back for the rest.
- The woman found behind the church.
684
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,266
- We're here for something else.
- The woman and her little boy.
685
00:42:40,349 --> 00:42:41,725
We're instructors.
686
00:42:41,809 --> 00:42:43,269
Are you from the Methodist church?
687
00:42:43,352 --> 00:42:45,354
Do we look like
we're from the Methodist church?
688
00:42:45,437 --> 00:42:46,397
Yes.
689
00:42:46,939 --> 00:42:47,940
Make a hole.
690
00:42:49,525 --> 00:42:50,693
Good to see ya.
691
00:42:51,902 --> 00:42:54,113
TENCH: Motive, means, opportunity.
692
00:42:54,196 --> 00:42:57,575
The three pillars of criminal
investigation for the last century.
693
00:42:58,158 --> 00:43:01,704
But it's 1977,
and suddenly motive is elusive.
694
00:43:03,372 --> 00:43:04,748
What, why, who.
695
00:43:05,291 --> 00:43:08,168
"What happened?"
"Why did it happen that way?"
696
00:43:08,252 --> 00:43:10,087
Which should lead to: "Who did it?"
697
00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:14,258
A person is murdered.
Not sexually assaulted, not robbed.
698
00:43:14,633 --> 00:43:16,677
But the body is mutilated posthumously.
699
00:43:17,177 --> 00:43:19,847
The question is not only
why did the killer do it,
700
00:43:19,930 --> 00:43:22,016
...but why did the killer do it this way?
701
00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:27,187
We are now talking about... psychology.
702
00:43:30,232 --> 00:43:33,193
(CLEARS THROAT) When I'm involved
in a hostage negotiation,
703
00:43:33,277 --> 00:43:35,529
...the perpetrator is standing
right in front of me,
704
00:43:35,613 --> 00:43:38,866
...but I have to gauge
how much destruction he's capable of,
705
00:43:39,366 --> 00:43:43,621
...what in his background or personal life
that could've triggered today's standoff.
706
00:43:43,704 --> 00:43:45,247
Some people are just crazy, right?
707
00:43:45,789 --> 00:43:47,958
Crazy in that they have no reason
for what they do?
708
00:43:48,042 --> 00:43:49,376
- Yeah.
- HOLDEN: Okay.
709
00:43:49,460 --> 00:43:53,922
But keep in mind, often, this crazy person
has never done anything like this before.
710
00:43:54,006 --> 00:43:55,799
Something just... flips.
711
00:43:56,383 --> 00:43:58,260
- Like a switch.
- Good, a switch.
712
00:43:58,761 --> 00:44:00,220
Anybody know what flips it?
713
00:44:01,180 --> 00:44:03,474
- Getting fired?
- Fired. Yes.
714
00:44:03,557 --> 00:44:04,933
- Getting dumped.
- HOLDEN: Absolutely.
715
00:44:05,017 --> 00:44:07,227
A romantic breakup is a top trigger.
716
00:44:07,728 --> 00:44:11,523
When we know who the criminal is,
we can understand what set him off.
717
00:44:11,607 --> 00:44:13,817
In a homicide situation,
we do the inverse.
718
00:44:14,234 --> 00:44:18,572
We ask, "What happened?
Why did it happen that way?"
719
00:44:18,656 --> 00:44:20,783
Which narrows the search for who did it.
720
00:44:21,283 --> 00:44:24,578
But what if our killer
is someone who's not rational?
721
00:44:31,251 --> 00:44:33,170
Why do we behave the way we do?
722
00:44:34,713 --> 00:44:38,801
It's a question asked by poets,
and philosophers, and theologians...
723
00:44:38,884 --> 00:44:40,511
...since time immemorial.
724
00:44:40,928 --> 00:44:44,765
The playground of Shakespeare,
Dostoyevsky, Freud.
725
00:44:44,848 --> 00:44:48,435
The stuff of Crime and Punishment
and Beyond the Pleasure Principal.
726
00:44:49,687 --> 00:44:53,941
The greatest minds in history have been
fascinated by the vagaries of behavior.
727
00:44:56,485 --> 00:45:01,490
So, in a case where we can't immediately
divine a motive, we shouldn't panic.
728
00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:04,034
It's a riddle, but it can be solved.
729
00:45:04,118 --> 00:45:07,996
It's complex, but... it's human.
730
00:45:10,290 --> 00:45:12,292
- (QUIET MUTTERING)
- Thank you, Holden.
731
00:45:13,460 --> 00:45:15,504
That was very... illuminating.
732
00:45:15,587 --> 00:45:18,549
(QUIET LAUGHTER, CHATTER)
733
00:45:18,632 --> 00:45:21,176
So what the hell's
Beyond the Pleasure Principle?
734
00:45:21,260 --> 00:45:24,096
- By Freud?
- MAN 1: So this is about sex?
735
00:45:24,179 --> 00:45:26,765
Actually, it's where he looks
for human impulses beyond sex,
736
00:45:26,849 --> 00:45:28,969
- specifically the death drive.
- MAN 2: What's that?
737
00:45:28,976 --> 00:45:31,937
- Something my kid does with a stick shift.
- (LAUGHTER)
738
00:45:32,020 --> 00:45:34,481
Freud suggests that there's
an innate desire for destruction,
739
00:45:34,565 --> 00:45:36,859
...based on the propensity for matter
to return...
740
00:45:36,942 --> 00:45:39,262
- What does this have to do with motive?
- HOLDEN: Well...
741
00:45:39,319 --> 00:45:43,323
...we've always looked at motive
as need or greed, right?
742
00:45:43,407 --> 00:45:46,285
- Guy steals a TV to sell it to buy drugs.
- HOLDEN: Exactly.
743
00:45:46,368 --> 00:45:49,371
But let's say, while he's at it,
he steals your wife's panties, too.
744
00:45:49,455 --> 00:45:51,215
If he stole my wife's panties,
I'd be amazed.
745
00:45:51,248 --> 00:45:53,792
- (LAUGHTER)
- HOLDEN: Well, he's not selling those.
746
00:45:53,876 --> 00:45:56,170
So why does he do it?
Is it merely prurient?
747
00:45:56,253 --> 00:45:58,755
He could be motivated by something
he doesn't even understand.
748
00:45:58,839 --> 00:46:01,091
Our new quest, like Freud,
749
00:46:01,175 --> 00:46:04,761
...is to look beyond what we assume
are obvious impulses.
750
00:46:04,845 --> 00:46:06,513
So why didn't you just say that?
751
00:46:11,226 --> 00:46:14,396
HOLDEN: They don't want to learn.
What are we even doing here?
752
00:46:14,646 --> 00:46:16,523
TENCH: Don't make it too complicated.
753
00:46:16,773 --> 00:46:17,983
What's wrong with complicated?
754
00:46:18,066 --> 00:46:20,944
There's complicated
and there's too complicated, Holden.
755
00:46:24,156 --> 00:46:27,075
We used to do this experiment
in social psychology.
756
00:46:27,618 --> 00:46:28,952
Uh-huh. What was that?
757
00:46:29,328 --> 00:46:32,956
You get onto a crowded elevator,
and you face the opposite direction,
758
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,543
...the back of the elevator,
and everybody freaks out.
759
00:46:37,044 --> 00:46:40,380
They're uncomfortable
for reasons they can't even articulate.
760
00:46:41,465 --> 00:46:45,803
But if you turn around and face the front,
everybody relaxes.
761
00:46:46,386 --> 00:46:49,014
Okay. Well, how do we do that?
762
00:46:51,934 --> 00:46:53,310
What do we have in common?
763
00:46:55,437 --> 00:46:56,647
What unites us?
764
00:46:58,649 --> 00:47:01,527
What keeps us all awake at night?
765
00:47:05,364 --> 00:47:09,159
- (ALL GROANING)
- Monster. Right?
766
00:47:10,118 --> 00:47:11,537
I think we can all agree.
767
00:47:13,622 --> 00:47:15,457
But what do you really know about him?
768
00:47:16,333 --> 00:47:19,044
Did you know that his mother
was a jailbird and a prostitute?
769
00:47:19,419 --> 00:47:21,088
Did you know when he was ten years old,
770
00:47:21,171 --> 00:47:24,007
...she palmed him off
onto his sadistic, Bible-thumping uncle...
771
00:47:24,091 --> 00:47:28,679
...who beat him within an inch of his life
and taunted him to act like a man?
772
00:47:29,513 --> 00:47:31,473
Charles responded to that
by becoming a pimp...
773
00:47:31,557 --> 00:47:34,268
...and an armed robber,
and was incarcerated for over 20 years,
774
00:47:34,351 --> 00:47:36,353
...where he continued to be brutalized.
775
00:47:36,436 --> 00:47:41,275
In 1967, he was paroled,
during the Summer of Love.
776
00:47:42,067 --> 00:47:43,443
And our nightmare began.
777
00:47:44,903 --> 00:47:47,322
(ALL GROANING, CHATTERING)
778
00:47:50,951 --> 00:47:52,369
- MAN 1: Jesus!
- MAN 2: Come on!
779
00:47:54,621 --> 00:47:58,000
Here we have a child who was unwanted,
unloved, regularly beaten,
780
00:47:58,083 --> 00:47:59,835
...and repeatedly institutionalized.
781
00:47:59,918 --> 00:48:03,964
Now, might this not have had
some sort of an effect on him?
782
00:48:04,631 --> 00:48:07,050
- He was born that way.
- What way?
783
00:48:07,634 --> 00:48:10,178
- MAN: Just bad.
- Can we be a little bit more specific?
784
00:48:10,262 --> 00:48:12,472
- Technically, he didn't kill anybody.
- (MURMURING)
785
00:48:12,556 --> 00:48:15,892
Look at those eyes.
How can you not say that dude's evil?
786
00:48:15,976 --> 00:48:19,646
That's a little bit Old Testament,
don't you think?
787
00:48:19,730 --> 00:48:23,483
Good, evil, black, white, it's easy.
788
00:48:23,859 --> 00:48:26,695
But who in this room
has a life that's easy?
789
00:48:27,529 --> 00:48:30,032
Circumstances affect behavior.
790
00:48:30,699 --> 00:48:32,743
When we look at Manson's background,
791
00:48:32,826 --> 00:48:36,288
...the real question is,
how could we not have seen this coming?
792
00:48:36,371 --> 00:48:37,331
We did.
793
00:48:37,873 --> 00:48:39,041
HOLDEN: I'm sorry?
794
00:48:39,124 --> 00:48:42,586
He was institutionalized
because we could see it coming.
795
00:48:42,669 --> 00:48:45,589
Okay, but I'm saying maybe, just maybe,
796
00:48:46,131 --> 00:48:48,967
...locking him up his young life
helped make him what he was.
797
00:48:49,051 --> 00:48:50,761
- MAN: No.
- What the fuck?
798
00:48:50,844 --> 00:48:53,221
They locked him up
because of what he did.
799
00:48:53,305 --> 00:48:54,765
They already knew what he was.
800
00:48:54,848 --> 00:48:57,934
Okay, guys, I'm not asking anybody
to feel sorry for Charles Manson.
801
00:48:58,018 --> 00:49:00,771
If he were here, I'd shoot him dead.
No one would stop me.
802
00:49:00,854 --> 00:49:01,688
MAN: Right.
803
00:49:01,772 --> 00:49:03,982
What Holden's trying to say
is maybe it's both.
804
00:49:04,066 --> 00:49:06,234
The one impacting on the other
in a vicious circle.
805
00:49:06,318 --> 00:49:08,487
Nobody has all the answers.
806
00:49:08,570 --> 00:49:11,490
- We have some answers.
- We should be asking questions.
807
00:49:11,573 --> 00:49:12,824
MAN: No shit.
808
00:49:12,908 --> 00:49:15,327
Well, I'll just tell my buddies
in Robbery-Homicide...
809
00:49:15,410 --> 00:49:17,663
...who were there
when the corpses were found,
810
00:49:17,746 --> 00:49:20,999
...that they may have overlooked
a difficult upbringing.
811
00:49:21,083 --> 00:49:22,459
You were LAPD?
812
00:49:22,542 --> 00:49:23,877
Twenty-two years.
813
00:49:25,128 --> 00:49:26,254
You worked Manson?
814
00:49:26,338 --> 00:49:28,548
No, but I knew every single man who did.
815
00:49:29,925 --> 00:49:31,718
How many homicides have you worked?
816
00:49:31,802 --> 00:49:33,804
(AUDIENCE MURMURING)
817
00:49:35,472 --> 00:49:38,350
Figure out who you're talking to
before you tell a sob story...
818
00:49:38,433 --> 00:49:40,185
...about little Chuckie Manson.
819
00:49:40,268 --> 00:49:42,521
They wrote "pigs" on the wall
in their victims' blood.
820
00:49:42,604 --> 00:49:44,147
They completely missed my point.
821
00:49:44,231 --> 00:49:47,526
In the future, ask if anyone's worked
a case before you bring it up.
822
00:49:47,609 --> 00:49:50,445
- Know your fucking audience.
- Oh, shit.
823
00:49:51,405 --> 00:49:53,699
It's okay, they always do this.
824
00:49:53,782 --> 00:49:55,534
Just be a good listener.
825
00:49:55,617 --> 00:49:56,535
Gentlemen.
826
00:49:58,203 --> 00:49:59,204
Frank McGraw.
827
00:50:00,163 --> 00:50:02,165
I didn't mean to embarrass anybody
back there.
828
00:50:02,249 --> 00:50:03,375
Not a problem.
829
00:50:03,458 --> 00:50:05,544
We're all a little tense around here.
830
00:50:05,627 --> 00:50:09,297
You must have heard about the mother
and child who were murdered recently.
831
00:50:09,381 --> 00:50:12,175
- Ada Jeffries and her boy.
- We've seen reporters.
832
00:50:13,385 --> 00:50:14,970
She was bound,
833
00:50:15,053 --> 00:50:17,347
...stabbed repeatedly
about the chest and face.
834
00:50:18,014 --> 00:50:19,266
The boy's throat was cut.
835
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:22,352
(GROANS) Rough one.
836
00:50:22,436 --> 00:50:26,273
I don't understand entirely
what you're talking about with psychology.
837
00:50:27,649 --> 00:50:30,068
I don't understand
much of anything anymore.
838
00:50:30,152 --> 00:50:31,737
What's on your mind, Frank?
839
00:50:34,030 --> 00:50:36,616
- I hate to bother.
- No, by all means. Bother us.
840
00:50:43,081 --> 00:50:46,960
When I left Los Angeles,
I thought I'd gone far enough.
841
00:50:49,755 --> 00:50:53,258
Ada was the kind of woman
who wouldn't say boo to a goose.
842
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,553
She came from a deeply religious family
in Arkansas.
843
00:50:57,095 --> 00:50:59,890
When they found out she was pregnant,
they put her out.
844
00:51:00,390 --> 00:51:02,934
She lived in a rooming house
in Libertyville.
845
00:51:03,018 --> 00:51:07,564
No drugs, no alcohol,
never had a brush with the law.
846
00:51:08,315 --> 00:51:10,484
The boy was polite and quiet.
847
00:51:11,151 --> 00:51:13,904
She had him in Sunday school
at the Methodist church.
848
00:51:14,237 --> 00:51:17,407
She would sweep the steps every evening,
849
00:51:18,325 --> 00:51:19,743
...just to be of service.
850
00:51:21,495 --> 00:51:22,829
I never met Ada.
851
00:51:23,747 --> 00:51:24,623
Every now and again,
852
00:51:24,706 --> 00:51:27,417
I'd see her and her son walk
along the road into town.
853
00:51:28,502 --> 00:51:29,711
They didn't have a car.
854
00:51:32,422 --> 00:51:34,174
Landlady found the bodies.
855
00:51:37,219 --> 00:51:38,470
They had been dead...
856
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:41,681
...four days.
857
00:51:47,938 --> 00:51:49,773
What people won't do to each other.
858
00:51:50,941 --> 00:51:52,526
Nothing people won't do.
859
00:51:54,653 --> 00:51:55,862
How can we help?
860
00:51:58,615 --> 00:52:01,618
MCGRAW: She was found cuffed
and lashed to the bed.
861
00:52:02,244 --> 00:52:04,538
A broomstick perforated her rectum.
862
00:52:05,539 --> 00:52:07,791
Whoever it was made the boy watch,
863
00:52:09,376 --> 00:52:11,169
...then did the same thing to him.
864
00:52:12,420 --> 00:52:13,463
How'd he get in?
865
00:52:13,839 --> 00:52:16,633
Bathroom window.
We think that's how he came and went.
866
00:52:17,217 --> 00:52:18,677
There was no sign of forcible entry.
867
00:52:19,427 --> 00:52:21,513
- No one heard a peep.
- In a rooming house?
868
00:52:21,596 --> 00:52:25,225
My assumption is, he held a knife
to the boy to keep her quiet,
869
00:52:26,059 --> 00:52:27,269
...and vice versa.
870
00:52:27,352 --> 00:52:29,729
This falls clearly
into the category of lust murder.
871
00:52:29,813 --> 00:52:31,523
By that I mean it's sexually motivated.
872
00:52:31,606 --> 00:52:34,067
That cannot be about horny.
873
00:52:34,151 --> 00:52:37,904
It's more about sexual gratification
through the annihilation of another.
874
00:52:38,238 --> 00:52:40,991
- Did you find semen?
- Found some on a throw cushion.
875
00:52:41,074 --> 00:52:44,077
It was blood type O.
I know that's not much help.
876
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:45,912
- TENCH: In the victims?
- MCGRAW: No.
877
00:52:46,788 --> 00:52:49,082
- He didn't rape them.
- He could have problems with sex.
878
00:52:49,165 --> 00:52:50,417
That'd be a good bet.
879
00:52:50,500 --> 00:52:52,127
Could narrow things with your suspects.
880
00:52:52,210 --> 00:52:53,753
I don't have suspects.
881
00:52:53,837 --> 00:52:56,798
I don't have fingerprints, shoe prints,
882
00:52:56,882 --> 00:52:58,675
...not so much as a single hair.
883
00:52:59,342 --> 00:53:00,176
Well...
884
00:53:00,260 --> 00:53:02,721
The fact that the killer
left nothing behind is interesting.
885
00:53:02,804 --> 00:53:04,848
It must have been premeditated
to a degree.
886
00:53:04,931 --> 00:53:08,101
He had gloves,
he cleaned up after himself.
887
00:53:08,184 --> 00:53:09,728
You think he was stalking her?
888
00:53:09,811 --> 00:53:12,397
- Or she just caught his eye.
- What about the boy?
889
00:53:13,023 --> 00:53:14,024
He was a witness.
890
00:53:14,107 --> 00:53:16,526
There are more expedient ways
to get rid of a witness.
891
00:53:16,610 --> 00:53:18,862
- Why make the boy watch?
- And why sodomize him?
892
00:53:18,945 --> 00:53:20,113
HOLDEN: That's a good point.
893
00:53:20,655 --> 00:53:23,783
Is this crime about the woman
or about the child?
894
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,040
- You're asking me?
- I was just posing questions.
895
00:53:31,333 --> 00:53:32,751
I get that.
896
00:53:32,834 --> 00:53:34,502
- The broomstick.
- Yeah?
897
00:53:34,586 --> 00:53:37,505
Is it the same broomstick
she used to sweep the church steps?
898
00:53:37,589 --> 00:53:39,716
- What if it is?
- He might not be a congregant,
899
00:53:39,799 --> 00:53:44,012
...maybe someone just passing through,
but the church could be significant.
900
00:53:44,095 --> 00:53:45,013
Could be?
901
00:53:45,096 --> 00:53:47,223
HOLDEN: With the idea of service.
902
00:53:48,308 --> 00:53:52,145
I think that there's a passage in Mark.
903
00:53:52,228 --> 00:53:54,648
Something about the "Son of Man."
904
00:53:55,482 --> 00:53:56,900
I don't follow.
905
00:53:56,983 --> 00:53:59,444
HOLDEN: All I'm saying is,
the broom may mean something.
906
00:53:59,527 --> 00:54:00,528
What?
907
00:54:02,155 --> 00:54:03,198
I don't know.
908
00:54:03,281 --> 00:54:05,241
It's hard to tell from just the photos.
909
00:54:05,325 --> 00:54:06,701
(SCOFFS)
910
00:54:08,328 --> 00:54:12,499
This woman was devoted to her child,
tried hard,
911
00:54:12,582 --> 00:54:14,501
...and some stranger came along and...
912
00:54:16,169 --> 00:54:19,422
Come on, Agent Ford,
you got fancy methods.
913
00:54:19,506 --> 00:54:23,843
What does a broomstick in the ass
of a dirt poor single mom mean?
914
00:54:29,391 --> 00:54:30,558
I don't know.
915
00:54:31,267 --> 00:54:32,435
You're kidding me.
916
00:54:32,519 --> 00:54:33,687
I don't understand it.
917
00:54:34,771 --> 00:54:37,941
- We can't help you with this.
- We need more time to go over this.
918
00:54:38,024 --> 00:54:42,028
We are in the dark here.
We don't know any more than you do.
919
00:54:44,030 --> 00:54:45,865
How fucking dare you?
920
00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:48,368
I'm sorry we wasted your time.
921
00:54:54,666 --> 00:54:56,793
- Can I get these back to you?
- (SCOFFS)
922
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,938
♫ Don McLean's "Crying" playing ♫
♪ Crying ♪
923
00:55:17,022 --> 00:55:19,607
♪ Crying ♪
924
00:55:19,691 --> 00:55:24,446
♪ It's hard to understand ♪
925
00:55:26,114 --> 00:55:31,536
♪ That the touch of your hand ♪
926
00:55:31,619 --> 00:55:33,747
♪ Can start me crying ♪
927
00:55:33,830 --> 00:55:35,665
- In the dark, huh?
- We are.
928
00:55:35,749 --> 00:55:38,501
I have studied everything we have.
I've taken this ride here,
929
00:55:38,585 --> 00:55:40,795
...listened to everything
you've been kind enough to teach,
930
00:55:40,879 --> 00:55:43,715
...but we're talking about something
we don't understand in the slightest.
931
00:55:43,798 --> 00:55:44,883
I was trying to help you.
932
00:55:44,966 --> 00:55:47,302
If you don't like it,
go back to your college kids...
933
00:55:47,385 --> 00:55:48,428
...and we'll forget about it.
934
00:55:48,511 --> 00:55:49,888
Ada and her son were killed...
935
00:55:49,971 --> 00:55:52,182
...for reasons we are simply not equipped
to understand.
936
00:55:52,265 --> 00:55:53,767
It wasn't lust murder.
937
00:55:53,850 --> 00:55:56,644
It wasn't some random thrill killer
who was born bad,
938
00:55:56,728 --> 00:55:59,439
...and it wasn't a pantie thief
who wanted to change things up.
939
00:55:59,522 --> 00:56:00,815
It was an aberration.
940
00:56:00,899 --> 00:56:02,901
Let me tell you something
about aberrant behavior.
941
00:56:02,984 --> 00:56:04,235
It's fucking aberrant.
942
00:56:04,319 --> 00:56:06,780
If we understood it, we'd be aberrant too.
943
00:56:06,863 --> 00:56:09,532
Fortunately, it's not incumbent upon us
to write a dissertation.
944
00:56:09,616 --> 00:56:11,159
- Well, maybe we should.
- Why?
945
00:56:12,243 --> 00:56:15,830
Our job is to give him something
he could not have figured out himself.
946
00:56:15,914 --> 00:56:18,541
- I am sticking my neck out for you.
- No disrespect.
947
00:56:18,625 --> 00:56:22,295
At the moment, I don't think we can say
anything to McGraw with any certainty.
948
00:56:22,378 --> 00:56:24,506
Let me ask you something.
Where are you from?
949
00:56:26,633 --> 00:56:29,511
I was born in New York,
but it's kind of a mixed bag.
950
00:56:29,594 --> 00:56:32,722
Okay. Well, that's what you are
right now, a mixed bag.
951
00:56:33,223 --> 00:56:35,850
A little college education,
some experience on the street,
952
00:56:35,934 --> 00:56:38,061
...some insight, a lot of horseshit.
953
00:56:38,144 --> 00:56:39,687
I agree with you.
954
00:56:39,771 --> 00:56:42,107
It's been one step forward,
two steps back.
955
00:56:42,190 --> 00:56:44,567
Let me ask you something else.
Do you have a girlfriend?
956
00:56:45,527 --> 00:56:47,987
- I do now, Bill, as it happens.
- Okay.
957
00:56:48,071 --> 00:56:52,075
So next time you're a long way from home
and you flip your shit,
958
00:56:52,158 --> 00:56:55,703
...you find a pay phone
and you tell it to your girlfriend.
959
00:56:56,454 --> 00:56:57,539
- Okay?
- Okay.
960
00:56:57,622 --> 00:57:00,500
- How's that sound?
- It sounds okay, Bill.
961
00:57:05,713 --> 00:57:12,178
♪ Crying ♪
962
00:57:12,262 --> 00:57:18,726
♪ Over ♪
963
00:57:18,810 --> 00:57:24,232
♪ You ♪
80887
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