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1
00:00:21,605 --> 00:00:22,648
May I help you?
2
00:00:23,357 --> 00:00:25,150
Yes. Thank you.
3
00:00:25,234 --> 00:00:27,236
I need some replacement electrical tape.
4
00:00:27,569 --> 00:00:30,280
Okay. You bring me the empty
and I'll get you a new roll.
5
00:00:30,364 --> 00:00:31,440
Empty what?
6
00:00:32,199 --> 00:00:35,035
The cardboard core that's left
when you run out of tape.
7
00:00:36,078 --> 00:00:37,412
What? Why?
8
00:00:38,205 --> 00:00:39,623
That's the way we do it.
9
00:00:40,457 --> 00:00:43,377
I can't give you a new one
until we get the old.
10
00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:44,460
Are you kidding me?
11
00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:47,296
No.
12
00:00:49,466 --> 00:00:51,093
Whatever, Dennis.
13
00:02:40,744 --> 00:02:43,664
This is your captain speaking.
New York City to the Bay Area...
14
00:02:43,747 --> 00:02:46,557
Just, hey, do me a favor. Don't
mention this to me ever again.
15
00:02:46,582 --> 00:02:47,584
I'm going to.
16
00:02:47,609 --> 00:02:49,610
It's the insanest idea I've ever heard.
17
00:02:49,669 --> 00:02:51,630
- I'm going to, Bill.
- We have a job to do.
18
00:02:51,713 --> 00:02:54,800
- We are here to teach.
- Chino, California Medical,
19
00:02:54,883 --> 00:02:57,928
California Men's Colony,
Norco, Soledad, San Quentin...
20
00:02:58,011 --> 00:03:01,181
If you'd said to me, "I want to
become a Beach Boy, take up surfing",
21
00:03:01,264 --> 00:03:03,433
- "sit around smoking the vibes."
- Folsom.
22
00:03:03,517 --> 00:03:05,227
Or, "I want to make it in the movies."
23
00:03:05,310 --> 00:03:07,729
Gonna get me a walk-up in West
Hollywood and a Pekingese."
24
00:03:07,813 --> 00:03:10,440
Manson is 30 miles away in Vacaville.
25
00:03:10,524 --> 00:03:12,109
A hop, skip, and a jump.
26
00:03:12,484 --> 00:03:14,820
- You really wanna meet Charlie Manson?
- Why not?
27
00:03:14,903 --> 00:03:16,783
- Sir.
- Swing by and say hi.
28
00:03:16,807 --> 00:03:17,824
Yeah.
29
00:03:18,615 --> 00:03:19,633
Thank you.
30
00:03:21,410 --> 00:03:23,954
Nobody wants to hear about
that crazy motherfucker.
31
00:03:24,037 --> 00:03:25,122
You know this.
32
00:03:25,205 --> 00:03:28,125
Welcome to San Francisco.
Please remain seated...
33
00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:31,878
Besides, when are you gonna find time
for these fireside chats, Holden?
34
00:03:34,297 --> 00:03:35,340
I'll figure it out.
35
00:03:39,219 --> 00:03:41,012
Nobody can talk to Manson.
36
00:03:41,096 --> 00:03:43,807
Tom Snyder's been trying to
interview him for years.
37
00:03:43,890 --> 00:03:46,143
We're the Federal Bureau
of Investigation.
38
00:03:46,226 --> 00:03:48,437
What if his civil rights
are being violated?
39
00:03:48,895 --> 00:03:50,439
Please just get in the car.
40
00:04:11,835 --> 00:04:15,255
In California every year, 35
percent of murders go unsolved.
41
00:04:15,964 --> 00:04:18,675
That's more unsolved murders
than in any other state.
42
00:04:18,759 --> 00:04:20,510
It's partly due to geography.
43
00:04:20,594 --> 00:04:22,721
In the woods, in the mountains,
44
00:04:22,804 --> 00:04:24,924
- ravines, hiking trails...
- You can't get to Manson,
45
00:04:24,948 --> 00:04:27,350
even if you're a fed.
46
00:04:27,434 --> 00:04:29,853
CMF treats him like a fucking unicorn.
47
00:04:29,936 --> 00:04:33,273
No one needs to think about psychology
more than the people in Santa Cruz.
48
00:04:34,095 --> 00:04:35,441
In a homicide situation...
49
00:04:35,466 --> 00:04:37,897
If you go to Vacaville, meet Ed Kemper.
50
00:04:38,069 --> 00:04:40,419
What happened that triggered him?
51
00:04:40,492 --> 00:04:41,972
Give me that name again.
52
00:04:42,032 --> 00:04:45,535
Kemper. Ed Kemper. They
call him the "Coed Killer."
53
00:04:45,619 --> 00:04:48,997
What about when even the killer doesn't
know why he behaved as he did?
54
00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,833
You can't miss the guy. He's
like six foot nine, 285 pounds.
55
00:04:51,917 --> 00:04:53,502
- Whoa. King-size.
- Super king.
56
00:04:53,585 --> 00:04:57,297
- Violent murder used to be...
- Killed a bunch of coeds in Santa Cruz.
57
00:04:57,380 --> 00:04:59,208
Six teenage girls,
chops their heads off,
58
00:04:59,233 --> 00:05:00,833
has sexual intercourse with the corpses.
59
00:05:00,857 --> 00:05:02,844
- Oh...
- Kills his mom with a claw hammer,
60
00:05:02,928 --> 00:05:04,805
has sexual intercourse with her head.
61
00:05:04,888 --> 00:05:06,932
- Bullshit.
- In her mouth.
62
00:05:07,307 --> 00:05:08,475
- No.
- Yeah.
63
00:05:08,558 --> 00:05:11,645
When strangers murder strangers
for no apparent reason...
64
00:05:11,728 --> 00:05:14,648
He was in a mental institution
right up until then too.
65
00:05:14,731 --> 00:05:17,818
He's a total whack job. He was murdering
his grandparents at the age of 15,
66
00:05:17,901 --> 00:05:21,446
but then he manages to convince everyone
that he's completely rehabilitated.
67
00:05:21,449 --> 00:05:22,474
Oh, my God.
68
00:05:22,489 --> 00:05:25,617
In many of these crimes, the
motives are not just obscure...
69
00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:28,703
Jim Conor knew him real well.
I'll introduce you.
70
00:05:28,787 --> 00:05:30,121
- Really?
- Yeah.
71
00:05:30,205 --> 00:05:32,833
- ...borderline unfathomable.
- Thank you.
72
00:05:33,792 --> 00:05:36,378
Used to call him Big Ed.
Everybody here knew him.
73
00:05:36,962 --> 00:05:40,715
- Was he an informant?
- No, but he was smart. He was funny.
74
00:05:41,337 --> 00:05:43,413
He used to watch all
the cop shows on TV.
75
00:05:43,484 --> 00:05:45,286
Crazy about Wambaugh and Police Story.
76
00:05:45,345 --> 00:05:47,764
He wanted to be CHP, but
it didn't work out.
77
00:05:47,847 --> 00:05:50,684
He would joke that they could
conceal his psychiatric record
78
00:05:50,767 --> 00:05:51,935
but not his fat ass.
79
00:05:52,602 --> 00:05:54,688
Stupid shit like that.
80
00:05:55,355 --> 00:05:57,649
Guys like him always
want to be in uniform.
81
00:05:57,732 --> 00:06:00,151
Losers. Losers are drawn to authority.
82
00:06:00,235 --> 00:06:02,571
Nobody wants to admit it,
but losers are useful.
83
00:06:02,654 --> 00:06:04,531
- Why?
- They're nosy.
84
00:06:04,670 --> 00:06:06,529
They know what everybody else is up to.
85
00:06:06,554 --> 00:06:08,309
And they're resentful, a lot of 'em.
86
00:06:08,368 --> 00:06:10,704
- They always got a raw deal.
- Ed was a busybody.
87
00:06:11,288 --> 00:06:13,208
And this was before you
knew about the killings?
88
00:06:13,290 --> 00:06:16,042
Oh, we knew about 'em, just
hadn't connected them with him.
89
00:06:16,126 --> 00:06:19,170
- He kept asking about them, though.
- And you didn't suspect him?
90
00:06:21,881 --> 00:06:22,882
What?
91
00:06:22,966 --> 00:06:25,051
"What?" You liked the guy.
92
00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:29,764
- Let's say he was a friendly nuisance.
- Oh, come on.
93
00:06:29,848 --> 00:06:32,601
- He was hard not to like.
- So you were the arresting officer?
94
00:06:32,684 --> 00:06:35,687
In the end, he lit out
to Pueblo, Colorado,
95
00:06:35,770 --> 00:06:37,939
expecting there to be
some kind of manhunt.
96
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:39,694
When nobody came,
97
00:06:39,719 --> 00:06:42,384
he got sick of waiting and
decided to turn himself in.
98
00:06:43,028 --> 00:06:45,488
Called from a pay phone. Confessed!
99
00:06:46,197 --> 00:06:49,284
We thought he was bullshitting.
I drove him all the way back.
100
00:06:49,367 --> 00:06:53,288
He wouldn't stop yakking.
Going into forensic detail.
101
00:06:53,371 --> 00:06:54,873
I thought I hit the jackpot.
102
00:06:54,956 --> 00:06:58,293
After a few hours, I'm like,
"Oh, God, please. Enough!"
103
00:06:58,376 --> 00:07:00,086
You think Kemper would talk to us?
104
00:07:00,879 --> 00:07:02,422
Try stopping him.
105
00:07:02,505 --> 00:07:03,673
Who's "us," kemosabe?
106
00:07:08,053 --> 00:07:10,180
David Berkowitz, 24.
107
00:07:10,263 --> 00:07:13,850
Spent his days sorting letters at
the post office so he could...
108
00:07:13,934 --> 00:07:14,968
What?
109
00:07:15,352 --> 00:07:17,020
Really, what are you expecting to learn?
110
00:07:17,604 --> 00:07:19,981
A killer who can't stop talking?
It's a gift.
111
00:07:20,065 --> 00:07:21,124
A gift, huh?
112
00:07:21,691 --> 00:07:23,902
He made a severed head
perform fellatio on him.
113
00:07:24,611 --> 00:07:27,364
His third victim was a
15-year-old child, Holden.
114
00:07:29,491 --> 00:07:30,492
You don't want to talk?
115
00:07:30,575 --> 00:07:33,536
So, basically, you just got me out
here to carry your slide projector?
116
00:07:33,620 --> 00:07:36,706
To help with the workload, yeah.
The work we're sanctioned to do.
117
00:07:36,790 --> 00:07:39,793
Kemper doesn't interest you
or is beneath you somehow?
118
00:07:39,876 --> 00:07:40,961
A little of both.
119
00:07:41,586 --> 00:07:44,089
- This is the man...
- Think the tie's too much?
120
00:07:44,839 --> 00:07:45,924
What about the suit?
121
00:07:46,007 --> 00:07:48,635
Anybody finds out you're a
fed, there'll be a riot.
122
00:07:48,802 --> 00:07:51,137
Shepard finds out you've been
interviewing the Coed Killer
123
00:07:51,221 --> 00:07:52,847
as a side project, he'll flip his shit.
124
00:07:52,931 --> 00:07:55,475
It's easier to ask
forgiveness than permission.
125
00:07:55,558 --> 00:07:57,811
Okay.
126
00:07:59,145 --> 00:08:02,691
If you're gonna go in, you need
to go in stone goddamn cold,
127
00:08:02,774 --> 00:08:05,619
take him by surprise, get the
fuck out as quick as possible.
128
00:08:05,644 --> 00:08:06,777
Good advice.
129
00:08:06,802 --> 00:08:08,606
Straight in there, don't phone,
130
00:08:08,631 --> 00:08:10,621
don't give them a chance to ask around.
131
00:08:10,657 --> 00:08:11,741
I'm a buddy of Jim Conor's.
132
00:08:12,325 --> 00:08:15,662
"Jim Conor reached out," you bet.
"He sends his regards."
133
00:08:15,745 --> 00:08:17,914
"I stopped by the Jury
Room for a drink."
134
00:08:17,998 --> 00:08:20,583
"The guys all say..." Blah, blah, blah.
135
00:08:20,667 --> 00:08:23,294
- "Can I call you Big Ed?"
- I wouldn't mention the killings.
136
00:08:23,378 --> 00:08:25,547
You're not there because he's
a necrophile degenerate.
137
00:08:25,630 --> 00:08:27,966
You're there because he's...
fascinating.
138
00:08:28,049 --> 00:08:29,759
How do I not mention the killings?
139
00:08:30,385 --> 00:08:31,428
Just take it slow.
140
00:08:33,346 --> 00:08:35,807
- What are you doing?
- Just in case.
141
00:08:35,890 --> 00:08:37,851
They're not gonna let
you in with a sidearm.
142
00:08:37,934 --> 00:08:40,770
The guy is six foot nine,
weighs 300 pounds.
143
00:08:40,854 --> 00:08:42,939
- That's right.
- So what's he gonna do?
144
00:08:43,023 --> 00:08:45,734
He's gonna take the fucking
thing away, kill you with it,
145
00:08:45,817 --> 00:08:47,902
and then have sex with your face.
146
00:09:03,334 --> 00:09:04,377
Hold it, guys.
147
00:09:09,569 --> 00:09:10,584
You're clear.
148
00:09:10,609 --> 00:09:12,021
I don't want to spoil your fun.
149
00:09:12,052 --> 00:09:13,845
I'm good. Nine is fine.
150
00:09:13,928 --> 00:09:15,847
You could come. Take notes.
151
00:09:15,930 --> 00:09:18,183
You take notes, I'll
help you write 'em up.
152
00:09:18,266 --> 00:09:19,809
You're really gonna go golfing
153
00:09:19,893 --> 00:09:22,937
while I glean profound
insights from the Coed Killer?
154
00:09:23,021 --> 00:09:24,981
- It's my day off.
- You're gonna be sorry.
155
00:09:25,065 --> 00:09:26,483
No. You're gonna be sorry, Holden,
156
00:09:26,534 --> 00:09:27,814
when he decides you're using him
157
00:09:27,838 --> 00:09:29,551
and there's nothing in
it for good old Ed.
158
00:09:29,611 --> 00:09:30,987
- I think there is.
- What?
159
00:09:31,529 --> 00:09:34,949
He's going to be part of something
instead of rotting inside a cell.
160
00:09:35,033 --> 00:09:37,368
Part of what? We're not even here.
161
00:09:40,246 --> 00:09:41,281
All right.
162
00:09:47,712 --> 00:09:50,048
I must respectfully ask for
your badge and firearm.
163
00:09:53,218 --> 00:09:54,469
Yes, sir.
164
00:10:02,185 --> 00:10:04,562
In addition, I have some
paperwork for you to sign.
165
00:10:04,604 --> 00:10:07,126
A disclaimer that states in
the event of your death,
166
00:10:07,151 --> 00:10:08,483
or if you're taken hostage,
167
00:10:08,606 --> 00:10:10,206
attacked, assaulted, or otherwise abused
168
00:10:10,231 --> 00:10:11,551
within the correctional facility,
169
00:10:11,575 --> 00:10:14,670
the United States government
forswears any and all liability.
170
00:10:15,907 --> 00:10:18,701
Oh. Okay.
171
00:10:47,313 --> 00:10:48,648
Kiss my ass!
172
00:10:59,409 --> 00:11:01,494
Hey, boy, bring that shit over here!
173
00:11:01,578 --> 00:11:02,579
Bitch!
174
00:11:45,496 --> 00:11:47,540
Can we unlock the...
175
00:11:47,624 --> 00:11:49,500
No, those stay on. They're regulation.
176
00:11:50,668 --> 00:11:53,004
I think that's gonna
be a little awkward.
177
00:11:54,964 --> 00:11:56,132
You're FBI.
178
00:12:03,806 --> 00:12:06,392
- Okay. You're all set.
- Thanks, Jim.
179
00:12:06,476 --> 00:12:08,228
- I'll see ya later.
- Later.
180
00:12:16,486 --> 00:12:17,570
Holden, right?
181
00:12:20,406 --> 00:12:22,283
- Edward.
- Edmund.
182
00:12:22,367 --> 00:12:24,100
Oh, I'm sorry. I assumed that it was...
183
00:12:24,125 --> 00:12:25,127
Are you tired?
184
00:12:25,173 --> 00:12:26,287
How could you tell?
185
00:12:26,371 --> 00:12:28,831
It's a beautiful drive, but it's long.
186
00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:33,336
Edmund was my mom's idea,
so you can call me Ed.
187
00:12:36,589 --> 00:12:37,632
Sure thing.
188
00:12:39,842 --> 00:12:41,344
So how can I help?
189
00:12:42,929 --> 00:12:44,764
Okay. Um...
190
00:12:46,391 --> 00:12:47,641
I'm an instructor,
191
00:12:47,666 --> 00:12:50,210
working out of the Behavioral
Science Unit at Quantico,
192
00:12:50,269 --> 00:12:51,437
and I had this idea...
193
00:12:51,521 --> 00:12:52,981
Have you had breakfast?
194
00:12:53,064 --> 00:12:55,483
Can I get you something?
You want a sandwich?
195
00:12:56,067 --> 00:12:58,861
- No, I'm okay.
- What kind of sandwich you like?
196
00:13:00,154 --> 00:13:04,200
- Um... I'm good.
- You want an egg salad sandwich?
197
00:13:04,701 --> 00:13:08,121
- I'm fine. Really.
- I'll get us an egg salad sandwich.
198
00:13:08,204 --> 00:13:10,915
I can get almost anything
you want from the canteen.
199
00:13:16,212 --> 00:13:17,213
Okay.
200
00:13:18,756 --> 00:13:21,384
- Do you have tuna?
- Oh, the egg salad's better.
201
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,095
- Hey, Jim?
- Yeah, Ed?
202
00:13:24,171 --> 00:13:25,724
Have you seen Mitch this morning?
203
00:13:25,749 --> 00:13:27,311
You think you can find him for me?
204
00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:33,521
- Good, huh?
- Mmm!
205
00:13:34,063 --> 00:13:35,398
These guys are great.
206
00:13:35,481 --> 00:13:38,776
I've been here five years. We
just clicked right off the bat.
207
00:13:40,111 --> 00:13:41,320
You like the guards?
208
00:13:42,488 --> 00:13:44,157
Well, they like me. I'm polite.
209
00:13:44,782 --> 00:13:49,871
You know, I heard that you used
to drink at the Jury Room.
210
00:13:50,413 --> 00:13:52,165
You mean in Santa Cruz?
211
00:13:52,665 --> 00:13:54,917
Yeah, those are good guys.
212
00:13:55,835 --> 00:13:58,588
I applied to California Highway Patrol.
213
00:13:58,671 --> 00:14:03,176
My mom spoke to the cops to get
my psychiatric record expunged.
214
00:14:03,259 --> 00:14:07,430
Turns out my record didn't bother
them at all, I was just too tall.
215
00:14:07,513 --> 00:14:11,726
Too tall? I've heard of
being too short, but...
216
00:14:13,936 --> 00:14:14,937
What?
217
00:14:15,021 --> 00:14:16,898
Nothing. It just seems...
218
00:14:16,981 --> 00:14:18,566
You think they lied to me?
219
00:14:20,651 --> 00:14:21,686
No.
220
00:14:22,945 --> 00:14:26,115
Well, cops like me because
they can talk to me...
221
00:14:27,033 --> 00:14:29,952
more than they can talk to
their own wives, some of them.
222
00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:31,579
Really? What do you talk about?
223
00:14:32,121 --> 00:14:33,581
You know, books, movies.
224
00:14:33,664 --> 00:14:36,584
I watch all the cop shows on TV.
225
00:14:36,667 --> 00:14:37,794
Do you know, uh...
226
00:14:39,212 --> 00:14:42,131
Joseph Wambaugh, Police Story?
You ever watch that?
227
00:14:42,215 --> 00:14:43,466
- Huge fan.
- Oh.
228
00:14:43,549 --> 00:14:46,552
I got a lot of my insights right there.
229
00:14:46,636 --> 00:14:47,712
Really?
230
00:14:48,888 --> 00:14:50,181
What kind of insights?
231
00:14:50,264 --> 00:14:52,141
Well, so, for example, with cops,
232
00:14:52,225 --> 00:14:54,811
I would not allow myself
to walk into a trap
233
00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:58,689
because I knew exactly how their
minds worked from watching Wambaugh.
234
00:14:58,773 --> 00:15:00,525
What kind of trap are you talking about?
235
00:15:00,608 --> 00:15:02,985
The classic is talking too
much about the crimes.
236
00:15:03,069 --> 00:15:04,112
Over-interest.
237
00:15:04,654 --> 00:15:06,489
You have to remain casual.
238
00:15:07,073 --> 00:15:09,575
They tried everything to trick me.
I'm too savvy.
239
00:15:09,659 --> 00:15:11,619
I don't fucking talk, period.
240
00:15:13,746 --> 00:15:15,540
Really? That's interesting.
241
00:15:15,623 --> 00:15:16,657
So...
242
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,544
you had this idea?
243
00:15:19,627 --> 00:15:20,753
Yes. Uh, yes.
244
00:15:23,047 --> 00:15:24,173
It's kind of, uh...
245
00:15:27,510 --> 00:15:30,012
Well, it's more of a research thing.
246
00:15:30,096 --> 00:15:31,097
Research.
247
00:15:31,764 --> 00:15:33,349
Just a series of interviews,
248
00:15:33,891 --> 00:15:35,101
chatting with...
249
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:39,439
individuals not unlike yourself.
250
00:15:40,606 --> 00:15:42,066
We're just talking?
251
00:15:43,234 --> 00:15:45,945
I don't get to go someplace,
do a bunch of tests?
252
00:15:46,028 --> 00:15:48,239
No. Yeah, no tests. Just right here.
253
00:15:48,781 --> 00:15:49,815
Why?
254
00:15:50,199 --> 00:15:52,493
Well, because I believe
it could be useful.
255
00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:55,371
Talking about what?
256
00:15:55,913 --> 00:15:57,206
Well, I don't know.
257
00:15:59,292 --> 00:16:00,309
Your...
258
00:16:01,294 --> 00:16:03,379
behavior, I guess.
259
00:16:05,381 --> 00:16:06,632
If you want to, that is.
260
00:16:06,716 --> 00:16:10,386
We don't have to talk about anything
at all if you don't want to.
261
00:16:11,846 --> 00:16:13,723
Why are you so tense?
262
00:16:13,806 --> 00:16:14,824
Hm?
263
00:16:15,224 --> 00:16:16,976
You're tense, right now.
264
00:16:17,602 --> 00:16:19,061
No, I'm not tense.
265
00:16:21,397 --> 00:16:24,108
Well, I'll be honest, I
don't get many visitors.
266
00:16:24,192 --> 00:16:27,487
When I do, you think they
want to talk about this shit?
267
00:16:28,029 --> 00:16:31,115
Fuck no. It's like if you worked at
a slaughterhouse with livestock,
268
00:16:31,199 --> 00:16:33,034
real conversation stopper.
269
00:16:33,418 --> 00:16:34,452
Did you?
270
00:16:34,535 --> 00:16:36,329
No, I'm just saying...
271
00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:39,790
People who hunt other
people for a vocation,
272
00:16:39,874 --> 00:16:42,752
all we want to talk about
is what it's like.
273
00:16:43,252 --> 00:16:46,255
The shit that went down. The
entire fucked-upness of it.
274
00:16:47,298 --> 00:16:48,466
Right, sure.
275
00:16:49,467 --> 00:16:52,094
It's not easy. Butchering
people is hard work.
276
00:16:52,803 --> 00:16:56,224
Physically and mentally. I
don't think people realize.
277
00:16:56,307 --> 00:16:57,600
You need to vent.
278
00:16:59,727 --> 00:17:01,354
What are you writing down?
279
00:17:01,437 --> 00:17:05,733
Oh, I just think it's an interesting
choice of words, "vocation."
280
00:17:07,276 --> 00:17:08,861
Well, what would you call it?
281
00:17:09,987 --> 00:17:12,782
A hobby? I'd say it's more than that.
282
00:17:13,449 --> 00:17:17,620
Look at the consequences.
The stakes are very high.
283
00:17:21,582 --> 00:17:24,043
Is this helping? Are you
getting what you came for?
284
00:17:24,126 --> 00:17:25,545
- I think.
- Good.
285
00:17:25,628 --> 00:17:27,547
Can I... Could I just ask you something?
286
00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:31,050
Do you believe that prison can help you?
287
00:17:31,634 --> 00:17:32,635
Are you kidding?
288
00:17:33,177 --> 00:17:35,638
You think you shouldn't be in prison?
289
00:17:35,721 --> 00:17:37,595
I think it's shutting the barn door
290
00:17:37,620 --> 00:17:39,708
after the horse has bolted, somewhat.
291
00:17:40,184 --> 00:17:42,812
What do you think the state
should do with you instead?
292
00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:46,399
Well, Holden, a lobotomy's
not out of the question.
293
00:17:46,482 --> 00:17:47,692
Lobotomy?
294
00:17:47,775 --> 00:17:49,235
Like Frances Farmer.
295
00:17:49,735 --> 00:17:52,280
- You remember Frances Farmer?
- No.
296
00:17:52,363 --> 00:17:54,782
I loved Frances Farmer.
She was an actress.
297
00:17:55,199 --> 00:17:57,034
They lobotomized her in the '50s.
298
00:17:57,118 --> 00:17:59,404
She was very smart and intense...
299
00:17:59,429 --> 00:18:02,798
very misunderstood. She
was a lot like me.
300
00:18:02,832 --> 00:18:05,334
You don't think you could
benefit from psychiatry?
301
00:18:05,626 --> 00:18:08,629
I already did all that
in the institution.
302
00:18:10,339 --> 00:18:11,507
It didn't take.
303
00:18:12,925 --> 00:18:16,012
For me, I think surgery might
give me the best chance.
304
00:18:16,095 --> 00:18:19,473
And if surgery doesn't... take,
305
00:18:19,932 --> 00:18:21,578
in this modern society,
306
00:18:21,603 --> 00:18:24,838
what do we do with the
Ed Kempers of the world?
307
00:18:25,313 --> 00:18:27,106
Well, isn't that your department?
308
00:18:30,401 --> 00:18:31,736
From your perspective.
309
00:18:37,325 --> 00:18:38,701
Death by torture?
310
00:18:58,012 --> 00:19:00,681
So what are you not telling me?
311
00:19:01,265 --> 00:19:03,684
Why do you keep looking at me like that?
312
00:19:03,768 --> 00:19:05,936
- Like what?
- Funny.
313
00:19:06,020 --> 00:19:08,981
You keep looking at me
like I'm a specimen.
314
00:19:10,733 --> 00:19:12,318
Well, to be honest...
315
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:16,322
It's just you seem like
a nice, ordinary...
316
00:19:17,615 --> 00:19:21,160
It's difficult for me to square you
with what you're in prison for.
317
00:19:22,453 --> 00:19:23,471
Oh.
318
00:19:24,246 --> 00:19:25,289
Well, sure.
319
00:19:28,084 --> 00:19:31,337
I was a regular guy most of my life,
320
00:19:31,420 --> 00:19:33,756
with a nice home, nice suburb.
321
00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:35,841
I had pets, I went to a good school.
322
00:19:35,925 --> 00:19:39,970
I was a thoughtful, educated,
well brought up young person.
323
00:19:40,054 --> 00:19:41,806
There's no question about it.
324
00:19:42,682 --> 00:19:43,716
But...
325
00:19:45,184 --> 00:19:46,686
at the same time...
326
00:19:47,561 --> 00:19:51,732
I was living a vile, depraved,
entirely parallel other life
327
00:19:51,816 --> 00:19:55,986
filled with debased violence and
mayhem, and fear, and death.
328
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:57,129
Well...
329
00:19:57,822 --> 00:20:02,618
it certainly seems to me like
you had your own unusual...
330
00:20:03,994 --> 00:20:06,038
An unusual MO. Oh, sure.
331
00:20:06,122 --> 00:20:08,582
Well, I was gonna say...
332
00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:10,292
signature.
333
00:20:11,001 --> 00:20:12,628
Anoeuvre, if you will.
334
00:20:13,254 --> 00:20:14,755
You could study it.
335
00:20:16,924 --> 00:20:19,135
You can spelloeuvre, can't you, Holden?
336
00:20:21,554 --> 00:20:23,764
You know, there's a lot more like me.
337
00:20:26,225 --> 00:20:27,268
Do you think so?
338
00:20:28,185 --> 00:20:29,895
People that kill in
sequence like you did?
339
00:20:29,979 --> 00:20:31,981
- Sequence?
- One right after another.
340
00:20:32,523 --> 00:20:33,607
At regular intervals.
341
00:20:33,691 --> 00:20:35,234
I've just been calling them...
342
00:20:36,193 --> 00:20:37,820
"sequence killers"...
343
00:20:38,654 --> 00:20:39,655
if you will.
344
00:20:40,114 --> 00:20:42,700
- How many would you say?
- Well...
345
00:20:44,785 --> 00:20:46,412
it would be a guess,
346
00:20:46,495 --> 00:20:48,956
but I'd say right now...
347
00:20:51,167 --> 00:20:53,878
North America, more than 35.
348
00:20:53,961 --> 00:20:55,004
Thirty-five?
349
00:20:55,087 --> 00:20:56,573
But you're never gonna find them,
350
00:20:56,598 --> 00:20:58,909
if they don't want you to.
Not even close.
351
00:21:00,468 --> 00:21:01,802
That can't be right.
352
00:21:01,886 --> 00:21:05,097
Well, Holden, I'm not an expert.
I'm not an authority.
353
00:21:05,681 --> 00:21:08,809
I'm just an extremely
accomplished murderer
354
00:21:08,893 --> 00:21:12,646
who spent my adult life
successfully evading capture...
355
00:21:13,689 --> 00:21:17,276
until I gave myself up because I
despaired of ever being caught.
356
00:21:19,195 --> 00:21:20,780
So take it or leave it.
357
00:21:22,239 --> 00:21:23,491
What do you want from me?
358
00:21:26,744 --> 00:21:28,037
I have no idea.
359
00:21:28,829 --> 00:21:32,249
Hisoeuvre? What the fuck?
He's Stanley Kubrick?
360
00:21:32,333 --> 00:21:34,668
He was extremely talkative.
361
00:21:34,752 --> 00:21:37,963
He likes talking to cops. He's lonely.
He could do it all day.
362
00:21:38,047 --> 00:21:40,549
He's not some frenzied
thrill killer, Bill.
363
00:21:41,383 --> 00:21:42,927
I think we need to face that.
364
00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:46,680
He chopped off women's heads and
had sex with their corpses.
365
00:21:46,764 --> 00:21:48,808
If that's not frenzied,
I don't know what is.
366
00:21:48,891 --> 00:21:50,059
He is so articulate.
367
00:21:50,643 --> 00:21:54,605
He's meticulous and highly intelligent.
368
00:21:55,075 --> 00:21:57,103
Yeah, he meticulously chose small,
369
00:21:57,128 --> 00:21:59,418
young, female prey who
couldn't fight back.
370
00:21:59,902 --> 00:22:01,028
Animal cunning.
371
00:22:01,111 --> 00:22:04,198
He's self-aware and objective.
Isn't that highly unusual?
372
00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:05,881
He's saying everything you want to hear,
373
00:22:05,908 --> 00:22:08,285
just like he did with the
shrinks in the institution.
374
00:22:08,369 --> 00:22:11,121
He knew just enough to talk his
way out, then went hunting.
375
00:22:11,205 --> 00:22:12,440
Don't be stupid about this.
376
00:22:12,465 --> 00:22:14,107
What makes you so sure I'm being stupid?
377
00:22:14,166 --> 00:22:15,501
I know these fuckers.
378
00:22:15,584 --> 00:22:18,420
It's only a matter of time before
he hits you up for privileges.
379
00:22:18,504 --> 00:22:20,325
Next, he's complaining to the warden...
380
00:22:20,350 --> 00:22:21,439
Come with me next weekend.
381
00:22:21,464 --> 00:22:24,802
- See for yourself.
- No, I'm not gonna do that.
382
00:22:24,885 --> 00:22:26,470
You're just going to play golf?
383
00:22:27,304 --> 00:22:30,224
It helps me think clearly.
You might want to try it.
384
00:22:32,935 --> 00:22:35,980
- Oh, yeah. Up a little.
- Uh-huh.
385
00:22:38,232 --> 00:22:41,485
- Over a little. Left.
- My left or your left?
386
00:22:41,569 --> 00:22:42,611
My left.
387
00:22:45,623 --> 00:22:46,699
This okay?
388
00:22:46,782 --> 00:22:48,242
It's fine. What's wrong?
389
00:22:48,325 --> 00:22:50,619
- You want a break?
- Why would I want a break?
390
00:22:50,703 --> 00:22:52,621
- That's not how it works.
- All right.
391
00:22:52,871 --> 00:22:56,125
You want me to throw in something?
Play with your nipples?
392
00:22:56,208 --> 00:22:57,703
- Why?
- Move it along.
393
00:22:57,789 --> 00:22:59,416
You're doing great. Just stop stopping.
394
00:22:59,441 --> 00:23:00,582
Okay.
395
00:23:03,841 --> 00:23:05,134
He knows more about lust murder
396
00:23:05,217 --> 00:23:07,511
than the whole FBI
Behavioral Science Unit.
397
00:23:07,595 --> 00:23:10,514
- We should put him on the payroll.
- Would the FBI ever do that?
398
00:23:10,598 --> 00:23:11,640
Doubtful.
399
00:23:11,724 --> 00:23:14,602
Everyone's freaked out that Berkowitz
might sell his life story.
400
00:23:14,685 --> 00:23:17,438
New York State is moving to make
that sort of thing illegal.
401
00:23:17,521 --> 00:23:19,607
It'd be awful for the
families of the victims.
402
00:23:19,690 --> 00:23:21,317
- What can I get you?
- Hi.
403
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,777
Uh, can I get two eggs over medium,
404
00:23:23,861 --> 00:23:26,947
home-fried potatoes, and wheat
toast with grape jelly?
405
00:23:27,031 --> 00:23:28,866
- And for you?
- Uh...
406
00:23:28,949 --> 00:23:31,557
- I'll just have an Ed salad sandwich...
- A what?
407
00:23:31,616 --> 00:23:33,850
An egg salad sandwich. Thank you.
408
00:23:33,930 --> 00:23:35,450
Holden, you don't even like egg salad.
409
00:23:35,581 --> 00:23:38,334
- Thank you.
- Right. Um...
410
00:23:38,417 --> 00:23:40,002
I'll just have a Denver omelet.
411
00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:44,548
You've got mention-itis. You
cannot stop mentioning him.
412
00:23:44,632 --> 00:23:47,426
Think of how much we can learn
from a guy like Kemper.
413
00:23:48,177 --> 00:23:50,095
He called it a vocation.
414
00:23:50,099 --> 00:23:51,116
- Killing women?
- Yeah.
415
00:23:51,180 --> 00:23:53,891
Jesus. How do you wrap
your mind around that?
416
00:23:54,975 --> 00:23:56,435
Couldn't attract them.
417
00:23:56,518 --> 00:23:58,187
Didn't have the social skills.
418
00:23:58,270 --> 00:24:00,064
That would describe a lot of guys.
419
00:24:01,565 --> 00:24:02,983
Why does he hate women?
420
00:24:03,484 --> 00:24:04,818
I should ask.
421
00:24:04,902 --> 00:24:07,302
- But not outright.
- No?
422
00:24:07,448 --> 00:24:08,917
He sounds like the kind of person
423
00:24:08,962 --> 00:24:10,787
who would tell you what you wanna hear.
424
00:24:11,075 --> 00:24:13,786
- You have to disarm him first.
- You mean, like...
425
00:24:14,912 --> 00:24:17,748
- What?
- Ask him questions about himself.
426
00:24:18,749 --> 00:24:21,877
Lean into him, listen intently.
427
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,713
- I do that.
- Keep your arms uncrossed.
428
00:24:25,422 --> 00:24:27,466
Mirror his movements.
429
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:31,178
Encourage him to talk about the
things he's excited about.
430
00:24:31,261 --> 00:24:33,180
Are these feminine wiles?
431
00:24:33,263 --> 00:24:35,474
Cross your legs in his direction.
432
00:24:36,642 --> 00:24:39,061
- Do you really do that?
- But don't touch him.
433
00:24:39,937 --> 00:24:41,522
You want him to like you,
434
00:24:42,064 --> 00:24:44,650
but you don't want him to
think you're gonna fuck him.
435
00:24:47,111 --> 00:24:50,030
Look at your face.
436
00:24:58,831 --> 00:24:59,873
Here's the thing.
437
00:24:59,970 --> 00:25:01,950
I spent five years as a brick agent
438
00:25:01,992 --> 00:25:03,793
and a couple of years at the academy.
439
00:25:04,169 --> 00:25:05,546
- I'm squeaky clean.
- Oh.
440
00:25:05,629 --> 00:25:07,297
I'm Eliot Ness. I'm...
441
00:25:07,381 --> 00:25:09,425
You're Melvin Purvis, G-MAN.
442
00:25:09,508 --> 00:25:10,509
Exactly.
443
00:25:10,592 --> 00:25:12,386
And back then, no skirt in the FBI.
444
00:25:12,469 --> 00:25:14,263
- No women, just men.
- Wow.
445
00:25:14,346 --> 00:25:19,017
Then I enroll in college, and
suddenly, I am Warren fucking Beatty.
446
00:25:19,101 --> 00:25:21,228
- Wow.
- Everything goes.
447
00:25:21,311 --> 00:25:22,771
- You take sugar?
- No.
448
00:25:22,855 --> 00:25:24,314
- Cool. Milk?
- Thank you.
449
00:25:24,398 --> 00:25:26,984
- You got it, man.
- Suddenly it's disco and poppers,
450
00:25:27,067 --> 00:25:28,360
and fern bars.
451
00:25:28,444 --> 00:25:30,696
I am up to my neck in chicks.
452
00:25:30,779 --> 00:25:32,406
Pussy, pussy, pussy. I hear that.
453
00:25:32,489 --> 00:25:36,535
It turns out chicks do really
dig a guy with a badge.
454
00:25:36,618 --> 00:25:39,163
"Gas, grass, or ass.
Nobody rides for free."
455
00:25:39,246 --> 00:25:42,249
Next thing I know, I'm with a
24-year-old that I met in a bar.
456
00:25:42,332 --> 00:25:45,836
No woman has ever been so
into me in my entire life.
457
00:25:45,919 --> 00:25:47,337
Don't brag. It's unbecoming.
458
00:25:47,421 --> 00:25:49,339
Oh, my God. I am so sorry.
459
00:25:49,423 --> 00:25:50,549
I'm kidding.
460
00:25:51,216 --> 00:25:52,250
Man...
461
00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:56,847
the things she comes
up with in the sack.
462
00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:58,599
You gotta love that young pussy.
463
00:25:59,183 --> 00:26:01,143
I do. I really fucking do.
464
00:26:01,226 --> 00:26:03,332
You gotta make it with that young pussy
465
00:26:03,357 --> 00:26:05,620
real quick before it turns into Mom.
466
00:26:08,066 --> 00:26:09,226
Yeah.
467
00:26:11,779 --> 00:26:15,073
So you were a virgin up until
then, that's what you're saying?
468
00:26:15,157 --> 00:26:18,285
- No, not at all.
- Oh, you go over like you're a virgin.
469
00:26:19,161 --> 00:26:20,871
- What?
- What's wrong with that?
470
00:26:20,954 --> 00:26:22,206
I was a virgin for years.
471
00:26:22,289 --> 00:26:25,334
Oh, no, there's nothing wrong
with it, it's just I'm... not.
472
00:26:25,751 --> 00:26:26,752
Uh-huh.
473
00:26:27,628 --> 00:26:30,464
This new girl, she take it up the ass?
474
00:26:33,509 --> 00:26:35,302
We haven't really discussed it.
475
00:26:35,385 --> 00:26:36,595
Ask her.
476
00:26:36,678 --> 00:26:39,973
An asshole will suck your
cock right in, literally.
477
00:26:40,057 --> 00:26:41,683
It's like a hole that sucks.
478
00:26:41,767 --> 00:26:43,477
It's easy.
479
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:47,731
But when you fuck somebody in the
neck, it's entirely the opposite.
480
00:26:47,815 --> 00:26:51,652
It's nothing but resistance.
It's really difficult.
481
00:26:51,735 --> 00:26:52,945
Let me.
482
00:26:53,028 --> 00:26:54,530
You feel this?
483
00:26:54,613 --> 00:26:56,615
Feel it. It's all muscle.
484
00:26:56,698 --> 00:26:58,325
Cartilaginous.
485
00:27:01,912 --> 00:27:03,288
Is this interesting?
486
00:27:03,747 --> 00:27:07,876
- Oh, yeah.
- Because I can skip some of the detail.
487
00:27:08,335 --> 00:27:09,962
No, I'm here for the detail.
488
00:27:11,129 --> 00:27:12,798
A major college campus.
489
00:27:12,881 --> 00:27:16,635
It's like a giant candy
store, you know what I mean.
490
00:27:16,718 --> 00:27:17,736
Right.
491
00:27:18,303 --> 00:27:23,934
Your, uh, your mom worked
on campus at UCSC, right?
492
00:27:24,476 --> 00:27:26,061
Remind me again what she did.
493
00:27:29,064 --> 00:27:31,692
- Administrative assistant.
- Right.
494
00:27:35,404 --> 00:27:38,824
That's all she lived for, man,
her work and her precious coeds,
495
00:27:38,907 --> 00:27:40,909
whom she mothered relentlessly.
496
00:27:41,326 --> 00:27:43,829
Do you think that she
neglected you for them?
497
00:27:43,912 --> 00:27:45,372
Put it this way,
498
00:27:45,873 --> 00:27:49,918
she had a very violently
outspoken position on men.
499
00:27:51,253 --> 00:27:53,672
She had a failed
marriage with my father.
500
00:27:53,755 --> 00:27:55,924
I looked a lot like him, so...
501
00:27:56,008 --> 00:27:57,509
You reminded her of him.
502
00:28:00,262 --> 00:28:03,432
Do you think you developed a dislike
for young women as a result?
503
00:28:04,016 --> 00:28:05,976
As far as she was concerned,
504
00:28:06,602 --> 00:28:10,480
I was never going to end
up with one of those girls
505
00:28:10,564 --> 00:28:12,858
because I was a fuckup
and an embarrassment.
506
00:28:12,941 --> 00:28:15,027
- You were a failure in her eyes.
- Look.
507
00:28:15,527 --> 00:28:19,573
My mother was a decent,
upstanding, reasonable woman,
508
00:28:19,656 --> 00:28:21,909
but when it came to me,
509
00:28:21,992 --> 00:28:24,036
she had nothing but contempt,
510
00:28:24,703 --> 00:28:26,830
disappointment, and disdain.
511
00:28:28,874 --> 00:28:30,292
That must've been awful.
512
00:28:31,627 --> 00:28:33,003
Well, here's the thing.
513
00:28:37,633 --> 00:28:38,675
I'm listening.
514
00:28:42,137 --> 00:28:46,141
Women are born with this little
hole between their legs...
515
00:28:47,059 --> 00:28:50,812
which every man on earth just
wants to stick something into.
516
00:28:52,564 --> 00:28:54,149
And they're weaker than men,
517
00:28:55,108 --> 00:28:57,402
so they learn strategies.
518
00:28:57,486 --> 00:29:00,530
They deploy their minds and their sex,
519
00:29:00,614 --> 00:29:03,575
and they intuitively learn to humiliate.
520
00:29:06,161 --> 00:29:08,038
Did your mother humiliate you?
521
00:29:14,044 --> 00:29:15,103
Ed?
522
00:29:36,024 --> 00:29:38,402
Lust murder doesn't cut it.
523
00:29:38,485 --> 00:29:42,531
He did not stab, and rape, and
decapitate Mom because he was aroused.
524
00:29:42,614 --> 00:29:44,449
He was conditioned to do it.
525
00:29:44,533 --> 00:29:46,952
- Did he say that?
- As good as.
526
00:29:47,035 --> 00:29:48,203
It's schtick.
527
00:29:48,287 --> 00:29:50,205
He learned the vernacular
in the institution.
528
00:29:50,289 --> 00:29:52,969
- He's sophisticated enough to use it.
- No, that's not my instinct.
529
00:29:53,041 --> 00:29:55,156
Is it your instinct he was
choosing words carefully
530
00:29:55,181 --> 00:29:56,295
or did he just spew it out?
531
00:29:56,296 --> 00:29:57,296
Very carefully.
532
00:29:57,321 --> 00:29:58,837
He's got you pegged.
533
00:29:58,883 --> 00:30:01,360
He's telling you what he's
guessed you want to hear.
534
00:30:01,425 --> 00:30:04,428
- But why would I want to hear that?
- Because you're you.
535
00:30:04,511 --> 00:30:06,722
You told him about your
university education,
536
00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:09,266
and your sassy girlfriend, and
your sensitive character,
537
00:30:09,349 --> 00:30:11,226
and he tailored his bullshit to fit.
538
00:30:12,728 --> 00:30:15,397
- Why did you tell him that stuff?
- To loosen him up.
539
00:30:16,565 --> 00:30:19,151
Why do you feel the need to
tell him about your girlfriend?
540
00:30:19,234 --> 00:30:20,652
Just to get him talking.
541
00:30:20,736 --> 00:30:23,405
Holden, he's had seven years
in a correctional facility.
542
00:30:23,488 --> 00:30:25,490
He's been practicing.
Don't encourage him.
543
00:30:25,574 --> 00:30:27,734
- I was trying to disarm him.
- You're a federal agent.
544
00:30:27,758 --> 00:30:30,495
Don't give him anything. He's
your subject. Be objective.
545
00:30:30,579 --> 00:30:33,332
- I've gotta trust my instincts on this.
- There's that word again.
546
00:30:33,415 --> 00:30:35,542
So in Fairfield, Iowa you
were in the Dark Ages,
547
00:30:35,625 --> 00:30:38,795
and now suddenly, you have all
these unimpeachable instincts?
548
00:30:39,254 --> 00:30:40,547
Well, it's been a process.
549
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:43,091
Okay, look, there's no doubt
whatever happened in there
550
00:30:43,175 --> 00:30:45,177
was a profound experience for you,
551
00:30:45,260 --> 00:30:47,846
but I need you to understand
that whatever you think,
552
00:30:47,929 --> 00:30:52,351
there is a distinct possibility
that he's manipulating you.
553
00:31:49,825 --> 00:31:51,159
It's not my fault.
554
00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:25,735
Gentleman, I'm Detective Roy Carver.
555
00:32:25,819 --> 00:32:27,988
Listen, I was a little
late for the presentation,
556
00:32:28,071 --> 00:32:29,364
but that was just great.
557
00:32:29,448 --> 00:32:31,700
- Well, thank you very much.
- Glad to be of service.
558
00:32:31,783 --> 00:32:34,703
Listen, before you go, I was
hoping I could ask you something.
559
00:32:34,786 --> 00:32:36,913
I know you're not just here to teach.
560
00:32:37,497 --> 00:32:40,597
- No, we really just teach, Roy.
- Pretty much all we focus on.
561
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:41,950
I was hoping I could get you guys
562
00:32:41,974 --> 00:32:44,030
to take a look at
something a little, uh...
563
00:32:44,337 --> 00:32:45,355
unusual.
564
00:32:46,381 --> 00:32:47,924
Oh, sure thing.
565
00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:55,348
Her name's Rosemary
Gonzales, 73 years old.
566
00:32:55,432 --> 00:32:58,727
Her husband died of cancer so she
sold the family farm in Chico,
567
00:32:58,810 --> 00:33:01,354
moved to Sacramento to be
closer to the grandkids.
568
00:33:02,981 --> 00:33:05,984
Two weeks ago, we find her beaten
within an inch of her life
569
00:33:06,067 --> 00:33:07,527
in a doorway to her back porch.
570
00:33:07,986 --> 00:33:09,070
She hasn't been robbed.
571
00:33:09,154 --> 00:33:11,656
She's been groped and
assaulted but not penetrated,
572
00:33:11,740 --> 00:33:14,826
and the little dog's throat's been cut.
573
00:33:16,746 --> 00:33:18,706
Was the dog killed because
it was protecting her?
574
00:33:18,730 --> 00:33:20,123
Or for some other reason?
575
00:33:20,207 --> 00:33:22,334
That I don't know. But it's interesting.
576
00:33:22,417 --> 00:33:23,627
Why didn't he stab her?
577
00:33:24,628 --> 00:33:25,962
Didn't have the nerve?
578
00:33:26,046 --> 00:33:29,633
I don't think some Latino with a shiv
got scared of a little old lady.
579
00:33:29,716 --> 00:33:32,469
Why do you say that? Why do
you say "Latino" like that?
580
00:33:32,552 --> 00:33:34,346
That's the neighborhood,
spics and blacks.
581
00:33:34,429 --> 00:33:36,723
Did she identify anybody
of that ethnicity?
582
00:33:36,806 --> 00:33:40,018
No. She was hovering in and out
of a coma for the past ten days.
583
00:33:40,101 --> 00:33:43,271
Now she's finally come around, she
has no recollection whatsoever.
584
00:33:43,772 --> 00:33:45,565
You think it's about a little dog?
585
00:33:45,649 --> 00:33:48,235
Scottish Terriers can be loud.
Their bark...
586
00:33:48,318 --> 00:33:50,487
- Could be annoying.
- Listen...
587
00:33:51,530 --> 00:33:55,033
we need to know exactly how
worried we need to be.
588
00:34:32,904 --> 00:34:35,782
My husband would've cried
to see me like this.
589
00:34:36,449 --> 00:34:39,494
Me, I don't cry. I'm tough.
590
00:34:40,245 --> 00:34:43,248
But he was just like a baby.
591
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,543
It would've destroyed
his faith in humanity.
592
00:34:48,628 --> 00:34:50,130
What did I ever do?
593
00:34:51,464 --> 00:34:53,466
Who would do such a thing?
594
00:34:55,051 --> 00:34:56,886
I never hurt a soul.
595
00:34:57,721 --> 00:34:59,598
I don't have any enemies.
596
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:02,350
I don't dress like a whore.
597
00:35:03,226 --> 00:35:04,894
- I'm an old lady...
- Está bien.
598
00:35:06,980 --> 00:35:08,315
Let me ask you something.
599
00:35:09,149 --> 00:35:11,026
Did your dog ever bite anyone?
600
00:35:11,401 --> 00:35:12,485
Never.
601
00:35:12,569 --> 00:35:15,739
Ever bother anyone by barking?
Any complaints from neighbors?
602
00:35:15,822 --> 00:35:19,200
No. He was very well-behaved.
603
00:35:21,161 --> 00:35:24,414
- Who cuts the grass, Rosie?
- Who helps you take care of the yard?
604
00:35:25,165 --> 00:35:27,667
I have all sorts of help. Kids mostly.
605
00:35:27,751 --> 00:35:28,768
Which kids?
606
00:35:29,461 --> 00:35:30,879
Just local kids.
607
00:35:31,379 --> 00:35:33,214
It's a very close community.
608
00:35:33,298 --> 00:35:36,134
And you didn't recognize your assailant?
He wasn't familiar?
609
00:35:37,594 --> 00:35:39,220
I just don't remember.
610
00:35:41,556 --> 00:35:42,974
Do you have kids?
611
00:35:43,058 --> 00:35:44,059
Two daughters.
612
00:35:44,768 --> 00:35:45,810
Married?
613
00:35:46,436 --> 00:35:49,356
The eldest is divorced. Dios mío.
614
00:35:50,231 --> 00:35:52,442
The younger I don't see that often.
615
00:35:52,525 --> 00:35:54,110
Can you remember anything else?
616
00:35:54,235 --> 00:35:55,737
Was he big, little?
617
00:35:56,196 --> 00:35:59,991
Do you remember any moles, scars,
tattoos, distinctive marks?
618
00:36:00,075 --> 00:36:01,993
I remember moonlight.
619
00:36:03,745 --> 00:36:04,788
And...
620
00:36:07,540 --> 00:36:09,626
I do remember a smell.
621
00:36:10,919 --> 00:36:12,170
What kind of smell?
622
00:36:12,754 --> 00:36:14,673
I don't know, he just...
623
00:36:16,341 --> 00:36:18,802
- He stank.
- Like what?
624
00:36:18,885 --> 00:36:21,054
Grease or gasoline, fertilizer?
625
00:36:21,137 --> 00:36:22,222
Like a bum.
626
00:36:22,305 --> 00:36:24,599
Like somebody who needed to wash.
627
00:36:25,225 --> 00:36:28,520
Seventeen, eighteen-year-old
high school kid,
628
00:36:28,603 --> 00:36:31,022
low self-esteem, hates authority,
629
00:36:31,606 --> 00:36:33,733
doesn't get along well with his parents.
630
00:36:34,192 --> 00:36:35,735
What, just some punk?
631
00:36:35,819 --> 00:36:37,779
Gets into a fight with
his old man one night,
632
00:36:37,862 --> 00:36:42,575
maybe he gets a hold of a bottle of
liquor and comes across the house,
633
00:36:42,659 --> 00:36:43,767
recognizes the place
634
00:36:43,792 --> 00:36:46,228
because he cut the grass
there when he was younger.
635
00:36:46,287 --> 00:36:48,289
- Some neighborhood kid?
- He goes inside.
636
00:36:48,957 --> 00:36:52,377
She doesn't recognize him, thinks
he's broken in, and starts yelling.
637
00:36:52,836 --> 00:36:54,379
The fight gets physical.
638
00:36:54,462 --> 00:36:57,424
He's drunk, he beats
the shit out of her.
639
00:36:58,216 --> 00:37:02,470
He knifes the dog because the
dog is yapping its head off.
640
00:37:03,179 --> 00:37:04,305
And then he runs.
641
00:37:05,265 --> 00:37:07,976
Are you guys serious? A teenager?
642
00:37:08,059 --> 00:37:09,227
He has bad hygiene.
643
00:37:09,561 --> 00:37:13,148
Doesn't bathe because bathing
is what his parents want.
644
00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:16,067
Look, we got a lot of kids
like that around here.
645
00:37:17,652 --> 00:37:20,488
But what kind of degenerate
carves up a little dog?
646
00:37:20,572 --> 00:37:22,657
Maybe the kid saw the dog in the yard,
647
00:37:22,741 --> 00:37:24,501
decided to conduct a
moonlight experiment
648
00:37:24,526 --> 00:37:26,397
with his Bowie knife, gets interrupted.
649
00:37:27,495 --> 00:37:30,206
A careful, considerate old lady
would bring her dog in at night.
650
00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:33,668
She went outside with the dog
because she heard something.
651
00:37:34,461 --> 00:37:35,545
Listen.
652
00:37:35,628 --> 00:37:37,213
It was a harvest moon.
653
00:37:38,715 --> 00:37:40,402
We have been tossing the idea around
654
00:37:40,427 --> 00:37:42,159
that maybe it's one of these, uh...
655
00:37:42,385 --> 00:37:44,220
you know, satanic deals.
656
00:37:44,276 --> 00:37:45,396
You know, like maybe the dog
657
00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:47,289
is some kind of ritual
sacrifice or something.
658
00:37:49,142 --> 00:37:50,159
Check.
659
00:37:53,605 --> 00:37:55,648
You need to squeeze the
neighborhood kids.
660
00:37:55,732 --> 00:37:56,941
One of them knows something.
661
00:37:57,025 --> 00:37:59,652
We had a kid like that, brought
him in for questioning twice.
662
00:37:59,736 --> 00:38:00,779
Bring him in again.
663
00:38:00,862 --> 00:38:02,502
We're gonna get pushback
from the family.
664
00:38:02,572 --> 00:38:04,157
His aunt works for the county.
665
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:07,202
- Then make it formal.
- I'm probably gonna need a warrant.
666
00:38:07,285 --> 00:38:09,204
We might be able to help you with that.
667
00:38:16,336 --> 00:38:17,395
Fuck!
668
00:38:19,798 --> 00:38:23,176
Nancy's gonna kill me. We can't
get a flight till Sunday.
669
00:38:27,013 --> 00:38:29,641
- Maybe this kid's like Kemper.
- We have to get a room.
670
00:38:29,724 --> 00:38:32,811
I can take care of the room. We can
turn this into an opportunity.
671
00:38:32,887 --> 00:38:34,571
It could help with the Gonzales case.
672
00:38:34,596 --> 00:38:36,129
I can't believe I'm stuck with you.
673
00:38:36,189 --> 00:38:38,066
- We can talk to Kemper.
- No!
674
00:38:38,149 --> 00:38:40,193
- I'm gonna play golf.
- Come with me.
675
00:38:40,276 --> 00:38:42,237
I'm not consulting with Ed Kemper.
676
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,656
Not to consult. Just background.
677
00:38:44,739 --> 00:38:46,282
When did his behavior escalate?
678
00:38:46,366 --> 00:38:48,446
You can't stay away from
that motherfucker, can you?
679
00:38:48,493 --> 00:38:50,537
No, please. Don't say "motherfucker."
680
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,414
You know that he'll respond
to your seniority.
681
00:38:53,498 --> 00:38:56,167
- You could really smoke him out.
- No, not now.
682
00:38:56,793 --> 00:38:59,712
We're stuck here all weekend.
What else are you gonna do?
683
00:39:01,089 --> 00:39:02,674
I said forget about it, man.
684
00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:18,314
So, you're the big boss, right?
685
00:39:18,398 --> 00:39:21,609
Well, I established the Behavioral
Science Unit years ago,
686
00:39:21,693 --> 00:39:23,778
but Holden's come in
with a lot of new ideas.
687
00:39:23,862 --> 00:39:27,323
So Holden's the intrepid
rookie investigator?
688
00:39:27,407 --> 00:39:30,326
Bill taught me everything I
know about criminal behavior.
689
00:39:30,410 --> 00:39:33,288
Is that right? Well, let me
ask you something, Bill.
690
00:39:33,371 --> 00:39:35,999
What do you think about Joseph Wambaugh?
691
00:39:36,082 --> 00:39:38,751
He knows Joe. Right, Bill?
692
00:39:39,402 --> 00:39:40,484
Well...
693
00:39:40,503 --> 00:39:43,214
Actually, he based a lot
of that stuff on Bill.
694
00:39:44,841 --> 00:39:46,843
- No shit.
- Uh-huh.
695
00:39:46,926 --> 00:39:49,304
Not the, uh, stories,
696
00:39:49,387 --> 00:39:52,599
but the psychological
insights and the vernacular.
697
00:39:52,682 --> 00:39:53,758
Yeah.
698
00:39:54,058 --> 00:39:55,768
That is fascinating.
699
00:39:56,269 --> 00:39:59,022
I sure would love to pick
your brain sometime.
700
00:39:59,105 --> 00:40:00,985
Well, that's another life
sentence right there.
701
00:40:01,065 --> 00:40:03,318
Maybe you could, uh...
702
00:40:03,401 --> 00:40:06,070
talk about your background
a little bit with Bill.
703
00:40:06,654 --> 00:40:10,366
Maybe tell him the thing that
you told me the other day
704
00:40:10,450 --> 00:40:11,659
about your mother.
705
00:40:13,953 --> 00:40:15,163
My mother.
706
00:40:18,291 --> 00:40:20,668
Well, you see, Bill,
707
00:40:20,752 --> 00:40:24,923
even as a child, I had kind
of a rich fantasy life.
708
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,094
As a teenager, I began by
cutting up inanimate objects.
709
00:40:30,178 --> 00:40:32,305
G.I. Joe. My sister's dolls.
710
00:40:32,388 --> 00:40:35,266
Ripping their heads off,
cutting up the bodies.
711
00:40:35,767 --> 00:40:37,769
Mutilating them, if you will.
712
00:40:37,852 --> 00:40:40,605
You had fantasies of what, real women?
713
00:40:40,688 --> 00:40:41,731
Oh, yeah.
714
00:40:41,814 --> 00:40:45,860
And my mother would yell and
scream at me, tell me I was sick.
715
00:40:45,944 --> 00:40:48,947
She thought I was going to do
something hideous one day.
716
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:50,657
What did she think you were gonna do?
717
00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:54,160
I guess rape my sister or something.
718
00:40:54,619 --> 00:40:56,871
This is when I was ten years old.
719
00:40:58,122 --> 00:40:59,157
Nice.
720
00:40:59,457 --> 00:41:01,417
Not exactly The Brady Bunch.
721
00:41:01,501 --> 00:41:03,181
Why do you think she thought this?
722
00:41:03,211 --> 00:41:04,895
Because she was fucking nuts.
723
00:41:04,929 --> 00:41:06,489
You didn't do anything to frighten her?
724
00:41:06,513 --> 00:41:08,001
She frightened me.
725
00:41:08,424 --> 00:41:12,095
She'd make me sleep on a dirty
old mattress in the basement.
726
00:41:12,178 --> 00:41:14,889
Lock the door. Ten years old.
727
00:41:14,973 --> 00:41:17,433
So then it became dogs and
cats, strangling them,
728
00:41:17,517 --> 00:41:19,894
burying them in the backyard.
729
00:41:19,978 --> 00:41:21,896
Hold on. Sorry.
730
00:41:25,233 --> 00:41:26,567
Just to vent.
731
00:41:27,735 --> 00:41:31,406
You know what I'm saying?
Classic displacement activity.
732
00:41:31,489 --> 00:41:35,785
Because it was my retreat from
the insanity of the world.
733
00:41:35,868 --> 00:41:37,954
- Then, you see...
- Sorry. Wait a minute.
734
00:41:38,037 --> 00:41:39,038
Sorry, guys.
735
00:41:43,751 --> 00:41:45,294
Is that why your mother sent you away?
736
00:41:46,546 --> 00:41:49,173
In the end, I ran away
to live with my father,
737
00:41:49,257 --> 00:41:51,050
but he didn't want me either.
738
00:41:51,134 --> 00:41:54,595
So they packed me off to
live with my grandma.
739
00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:56,556
She thought I was a freak.
740
00:41:56,639 --> 00:41:57,890
Is that why you shot her?
741
00:41:58,433 --> 00:42:02,186
Well, they were both very controlling,
aggressive, matriarchal women.
742
00:42:02,270 --> 00:42:04,689
- Matriarchal?
- Female-centric.
743
00:42:04,772 --> 00:42:06,733
Get that down. That's a big antecedent.
744
00:42:07,233 --> 00:42:08,276
What happened after that?
745
00:42:09,152 --> 00:42:11,362
I was put in a fucking
mental institution.
746
00:42:11,988 --> 00:42:13,072
I was 15.
747
00:42:13,156 --> 00:42:15,992
I was 21 years old when I came out.
748
00:42:16,075 --> 00:42:19,912
All those years when other kids were
having their sexual revolution,
749
00:42:19,996 --> 00:42:21,748
I was locked in a room.
750
00:42:22,373 --> 00:42:24,146
You remember the whole flower power,
751
00:42:24,171 --> 00:42:26,959
college girls into love and peace?
752
00:42:28,337 --> 00:42:33,051
Physically, I wasn't impotent,
but emotionally I was.
753
00:42:34,469 --> 00:42:39,057
Because of the way I was conditioned
by Mom, right? Like you said.
754
00:42:39,140 --> 00:42:40,892
- Conditioned?
- Right.
755
00:42:42,060 --> 00:42:43,394
You see, Bill,
756
00:42:44,020 --> 00:42:47,231
I knew a week before she
died I was gonna kill her.
757
00:42:49,901 --> 00:42:54,739
She went out to a party, she got
soused, she came home alone.
758
00:42:54,822 --> 00:42:58,159
I asked her how her evening went.
She just looked at me.
759
00:42:59,410 --> 00:43:01,662
She said, "For seven years."
760
00:43:02,288 --> 00:43:04,588
She said, "I haven't had sex with a man"
761
00:43:04,617 --> 00:43:06,958
because of you, my murderous son."
762
00:43:12,465 --> 00:43:15,426
So I got a claw hammer
and I beat her to death.
763
00:43:17,178 --> 00:43:18,513
Then I cut her head off.
764
00:43:23,476 --> 00:43:25,353
And I humiliated her.
765
00:43:29,899 --> 00:43:32,652
And I said, "There. Now you've had sex."
766
00:43:37,740 --> 00:43:40,201
If there's one thing I know, it's this:
767
00:43:41,911 --> 00:43:44,789
A mother should not scorn her own son.
768
00:43:45,957 --> 00:43:48,084
If a woman humiliates her little boy,
769
00:43:48,167 --> 00:43:52,588
he will become hostile, and
violent, and debased. Period.
770
00:44:03,182 --> 00:44:04,888
Ladies and gentlemen,
771
00:44:04,913 --> 00:44:06,958
we've reached our cruising altitude...
772
00:44:07,103 --> 00:44:09,647
- I think we need to talk.
- Now do you see?
773
00:44:09,730 --> 00:44:11,941
I need to speak to Shepard.
Tell him what's going on.
774
00:44:12,024 --> 00:44:13,024
It's too early.
775
00:44:13,025 --> 00:44:15,027
The longer we wait, the
worse it's gonna be.
776
00:44:15,111 --> 00:44:18,114
- We'll be drowned in red tape.
- And there's a reason for that.
777
00:44:18,197 --> 00:44:21,367
The FBI is a glacial bureaucracy,
but it's highly effective.
778
00:44:21,450 --> 00:44:23,911
Kemper's in lockdown,
what's he gonna do?
779
00:44:23,995 --> 00:44:26,247
Kemper is a gigantic blabbermouth.
780
00:44:26,330 --> 00:44:28,124
He's friends with all the prison guards.
781
00:44:28,207 --> 00:44:29,652
A federal agent is meeting with him,
782
00:44:29,677 --> 00:44:31,401
you think that hasn't
reached the warden?
783
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,339
A couple of months, that's all I need.
784
00:44:35,423 --> 00:44:37,717
No. Because if we get censured,
785
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,469
we're off work two weeks
minimum, no appeal.
786
00:44:40,553 --> 00:44:42,930
And you can kiss goodbye
to the Gonzales case.
787
00:44:43,014 --> 00:44:44,640
They'll never catch that guy.
788
00:44:50,313 --> 00:44:52,857
Did you tell a detective in
Sacramento you would intercede
789
00:44:52,940 --> 00:44:55,651
with the district attorney
on behalf of the FBI?
790
00:44:56,235 --> 00:44:59,280
Some DA called me and asked why
I had two agents in Sacramento.
791
00:44:59,363 --> 00:45:01,574
"Two goons," his exact words.
792
00:45:01,657 --> 00:45:02,909
It's a strange case.
793
00:45:02,992 --> 00:45:05,703
The locals were struggling. We were
trying to figure a way forward.
794
00:45:05,786 --> 00:45:07,246
What were you thinking?
795
00:45:07,330 --> 00:45:09,165
At the time, we deemed
this of great urgency.
796
00:45:09,248 --> 00:45:10,583
The circumstances were unusual.
797
00:45:10,666 --> 00:45:13,586
Assault and battery? Since when
does the FBI consult on that?
798
00:45:13,669 --> 00:45:14,712
Not even homicide.
799
00:45:14,795 --> 00:45:16,130
Unless you count a dog.
800
00:45:16,672 --> 00:45:18,758
Bill, the past three years
I've heard you complain
801
00:45:18,801 --> 00:45:20,801
about how overworked you
are with the Road School.
802
00:45:20,825 --> 00:45:21,928
I gave you your assistant,
803
00:45:22,011 --> 00:45:24,305
and this is how you choose
to spend your time?
804
00:45:25,681 --> 00:45:28,225
I trust you understand
my position on this.
805
00:45:29,852 --> 00:45:32,396
Is there anything else
you want to tell me?
806
00:45:41,447 --> 00:45:44,533
I get back on Tuesday, if you want
to pick me up from the airport.
807
00:45:44,617 --> 00:45:45,743
Sure, I'd love to.
808
00:45:46,744 --> 00:45:49,580
- You should come with me sometime.
- To Detroit?
809
00:45:50,498 --> 00:45:53,334
See your old stomping grounds.
Meet my mom.
810
00:45:55,086 --> 00:45:56,446
Okay, good to know where we're at.
811
00:45:56,504 --> 00:45:59,507
- No, I would love to meet your mom.
- I said sometime.
812
00:45:59,590 --> 00:46:01,759
No, actually, it's something
I would really enjoy.
813
00:46:01,842 --> 00:46:03,427
I meant eventually.
814
00:46:03,511 --> 00:46:05,846
I'm sure she's really, really lovely.
815
00:46:06,430 --> 00:46:08,557
Actually, she's kind of a bitch,
816
00:46:09,433 --> 00:46:11,310
especially when it comes
to people I'm dating.
817
00:46:11,394 --> 00:46:12,428
Really?
818
00:46:12,937 --> 00:46:14,855
But... I like you.
819
00:46:15,940 --> 00:46:18,359
I might give you the
secret to win her over.
820
00:46:20,528 --> 00:46:21,529
What might that be?
821
00:46:21,612 --> 00:46:23,147
Well, Mom doesn't care
822
00:46:23,172 --> 00:46:25,454
what kind of music you like,
what kind of job you have,
823
00:46:25,479 --> 00:46:27,064
what kind of car you drive.
824
00:46:27,576 --> 00:46:30,955
Instead, she'll ask you
about your mother.
825
00:46:31,580 --> 00:46:34,041
It'll seem like a perfectly
innocent question,
826
00:46:34,125 --> 00:46:36,210
but she'll be watching you closely.
827
00:46:37,211 --> 00:46:39,880
If she thinks you love
and respect your mom,
828
00:46:40,548 --> 00:46:43,259
she'll know that you'll treat
her daughter the same way.
829
00:46:46,053 --> 00:46:47,388
That's actually shrewd.
830
00:46:48,055 --> 00:46:50,725
...hair group. It can't do
anything about the hair...
831
00:46:50,808 --> 00:46:51,934
So...
832
00:46:53,019 --> 00:46:54,270
do you like your mom?
833
00:46:56,814 --> 00:46:57,857
I do.
834
00:46:57,940 --> 00:47:00,401
She's someone I really enjoy talking to.
835
00:47:00,985 --> 00:47:03,863
I knew it. I knew you
were a momma's boy.
836
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,368
You should just come with me tomorrow.
You've already passed the test.
837
00:47:09,827 --> 00:47:11,495
I couldn't even if I wanted to.
838
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:14,165
Shepard doesn't want us leaving town.
839
00:47:14,248 --> 00:47:15,666
Why? What's happened?
840
00:47:16,167 --> 00:47:17,460
We... Well...
841
00:47:18,085 --> 00:47:19,103
I...
842
00:47:19,754 --> 00:47:21,255
really fucked up.
843
00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:23,632
Ooh. You grounded?
844
00:47:28,095 --> 00:47:30,806
When are they gonna start taking
this whole thing seriously?
845
00:48:00,753 --> 00:48:02,421
- Hi.
- Hi.
846
00:48:12,014 --> 00:48:15,518
- How do you know where I live?
- Personnel gave me your address.
847
00:48:25,903 --> 00:48:27,154
Let's go back to Shepard.
848
00:48:27,848 --> 00:48:30,008
Tell him about Kemper, tell
him what we've been doing.
849
00:48:30,032 --> 00:48:32,743
- You think he'll listen now?
- Let's make it official.
850
00:48:32,827 --> 00:48:35,079
You don't want to wait till
Sacramento blows over?
851
00:48:35,162 --> 00:48:37,665
No, I want to go back to
Sacramento and fix it.
852
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,543
If we fix it, Shepard might
give us what we want.
853
00:48:42,211 --> 00:48:44,672
He's not stupid. He'll have to listen.
854
00:48:44,755 --> 00:48:47,049
Are you out of your fucking minds?!
855
00:48:47,133 --> 00:48:48,843
You interviewed Edmund Kemper?
856
00:48:48,926 --> 00:48:51,011
Not so much interviewed.
More like a conversation.
857
00:48:51,095 --> 00:48:53,889
He said interesting things that
turned out to be really useful.
858
00:48:53,973 --> 00:48:55,724
- What the fuck?
- I just had this idea...
859
00:48:55,808 --> 00:48:58,060
I don't want to hear your idea.
I'm sick of your ideas.
860
00:48:58,144 --> 00:49:00,688
It is not our job to
commiserate with these people.
861
00:49:00,771 --> 00:49:03,607
It is our job to electrocute them.
How long has this been going on?
862
00:49:03,691 --> 00:49:04,971
Just when we were in Sacramento.
863
00:49:04,995 --> 00:49:07,378
Sir... the conversations
with Kemper shed light
864
00:49:07,403 --> 00:49:09,123
on things we've been
exploring in the unit.
865
00:49:09,155 --> 00:49:11,635
There's a correlation with what
we're finding at crime scenes.
866
00:49:11,659 --> 00:49:12,908
It proves that we're on track.
867
00:49:12,992 --> 00:49:14,857
Proof the Federal
Bureau of Investigation
868
00:49:14,882 --> 00:49:16,436
is on track after all these years?
869
00:49:16,495 --> 00:49:19,081
Well, golly, what a relief.
I am so pleased for us.
870
00:49:19,165 --> 00:49:21,292
- We're pleased too.
- Don't smart-mouth me, Holden!
871
00:49:21,375 --> 00:49:24,461
You fucked up the Gonzales situation,
pissed off the Sacramento DA,
872
00:49:24,545 --> 00:49:27,214
and you've been interviewing
lifers in the state penitentiary.
873
00:49:27,298 --> 00:49:30,719
Sir, the insights during these
visits may help us identify
874
00:49:30,792 --> 00:49:32,168
the person responsible for the attacks
875
00:49:32,192 --> 00:49:33,512
in Sacramento and prevent others.
876
00:49:33,536 --> 00:49:36,056
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Here's
what it is. Burn your notes.
877
00:49:36,140 --> 00:49:37,645
Don't speak to me about this anymore.
878
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:39,417
Don't put it in any reports.
You're done.
879
00:49:39,476 --> 00:49:40,519
Excuse me, sir.
880
00:49:41,729 --> 00:49:44,565
I truly believe there is a vein
here that needs to be mined.
881
00:49:44,648 --> 00:49:47,234
Okay, kiddo. You're
looking down the barrel.
882
00:49:47,735 --> 00:49:50,613
Three whole bags: Censure,
suspension, transfer.
883
00:50:05,711 --> 00:50:06,754
Pardon me.
884
00:50:08,297 --> 00:50:11,383
Sir, permit me to speak. I've been
doing this shit for seven years.
885
00:50:11,467 --> 00:50:13,907
I trained Holden because he was
transferred to my department.
886
00:50:13,969 --> 00:50:15,763
He knows his criminal psychology.
887
00:50:15,846 --> 00:50:17,973
He's done his homework,
worked his butt off,
888
00:50:18,057 --> 00:50:19,497
and now I think he's onto something.
889
00:50:19,558 --> 00:50:21,727
Onto what? He made friends
with the Coed Killer.
890
00:50:21,810 --> 00:50:24,271
If this is going to work, we
need to talk to more subjects.
891
00:50:24,355 --> 00:50:27,233
More? No! What's next, Charles Manson?
When's he booked for?
892
00:50:27,316 --> 00:50:28,943
We were thinking June.
893
00:50:29,652 --> 00:50:30,736
I think it's right.
894
00:50:30,819 --> 00:50:32,571
We need to use whatever resource...
895
00:50:32,655 --> 00:50:34,782
Resource, my ass! What's the
matter, bored with golf?
896
00:50:34,865 --> 00:50:37,534
California jails are full of
thrill killers and lust murderers.
897
00:50:37,625 --> 00:50:39,306
And we put them there, that's our job.
898
00:50:39,331 --> 00:50:40,568
Dying and rotting on the vine.
899
00:50:40,621 --> 00:50:43,123
Cry me a river, Holden.
All the wasted potential.
900
00:50:43,207 --> 00:50:44,333
It is wasted potential, sir.
901
00:50:44,416 --> 00:50:46,502
- We could be using these people.
- Using how?
902
00:50:46,585 --> 00:50:48,712
- Their knowledge and insight.
- Of what?
903
00:50:48,796 --> 00:50:49,981
- Themselves.
- Whoselves?!
904
00:50:50,005 --> 00:50:51,485
Then we know what we're talking about
905
00:50:51,509 --> 00:50:53,251
when we speak to other law enforcement.
906
00:50:53,282 --> 00:50:55,994
- Can you make him shut up?
- I have not been able to, sir.
907
00:50:56,845 --> 00:51:00,474
How do we get ahead of crazy if
we don't know how crazy thinks?
908
00:51:10,442 --> 00:51:11,902
I like you, Bill.
909
00:51:12,528 --> 00:51:14,989
I don't particularly like
him, but I like you.
910
00:51:17,783 --> 00:51:20,244
Okay, you may continue
with your little sideshow.
911
00:51:20,327 --> 00:51:22,371
However, no one can know about it.
Clear?
912
00:51:23,205 --> 00:51:24,456
You will relocate yourselves
913
00:51:24,540 --> 00:51:27,001
to the basement beneath
Behavioral Sciences,
914
00:51:27,084 --> 00:51:29,211
reporting directly and
exclusively to me.
915
00:51:29,295 --> 00:51:30,921
The basement? I'm 44 years old.
916
00:51:31,005 --> 00:51:34,258
You may dedicate ten hours of
your 50-hour work week to this.
917
00:51:34,341 --> 00:51:36,261
If I deem any aspect of
it to be unwarranted,
918
00:51:36,286 --> 00:51:37,903
unnecessary, or unsavory,
919
00:51:37,928 --> 00:51:40,097
I will end it. Do you both understand?
920
00:51:40,180 --> 00:51:41,198
Yes.
921
00:51:42,266 --> 00:51:43,283
And thank you, sir.
922
00:51:44,018 --> 00:51:45,144
Thank you, sir.
923
00:53:11,399 --> 00:53:14,721
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