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1
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Angie Dodge's life
was cut short last night.
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It was a horrible shock
to her friends and family.
3
00:00:29,072 --> 00:00:31,161
She's almost decapitated.
4
00:00:31,292 --> 00:00:33,816
The perpetrator
clearly left his DNA.
5
00:00:33,946 --> 00:00:35,905
They pull in Chris Tapp.
6
00:00:39,213 --> 00:00:41,780
Chris... you could
push him around a little bit.
7
00:00:45,784 --> 00:00:47,482
Detective Fuhriman
wouldn't back down.
8
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How dare he?
9
00:00:52,704 --> 00:00:55,011
IFPD had me programmed
10
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that Chris was part
of my daughter's killing.
11
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There's no physical evidence
that puts him there.
12
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-Yeah.
-Period.
13
00:01:02,149 --> 00:01:04,716
But people were confused.
14
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Why would someone admit to
something that they didn't do?
15
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I was on a campaign to say, "They
wronged him. They wronged me.
16
00:01:11,375 --> 00:01:12,898
They got
the wrong person."
17
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These are people
that lived
18
00:01:15,336 --> 00:01:17,729
right in that neighborhood
in 1996.
19
00:01:17,860 --> 00:01:19,470
We're gonna get the right
guy on this one. We have to.
20
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It is the judgment of
the court that you are guilty
21
00:01:28,392 --> 00:01:32,266
of the crimes of murder
in the first degree and rape.
22
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It is the order of the court
that you be sentenced
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00:01:35,182 --> 00:01:37,706
to the Idaho Penitentiary
for a term of life
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plus 15 years
with 30 years fixed.
25
00:01:50,849 --> 00:01:53,025
Prison is a dog-eat-dog world.
26
00:01:53,156 --> 00:01:55,202
You know,
survival of the fittest.
27
00:01:55,332 --> 00:01:57,769
So, you learn
how to survive in here.
28
00:01:59,989 --> 00:02:01,904
The facility that we're at
right now,
29
00:02:02,034 --> 00:02:04,689
I've been here for
a grand total of 10 years.
30
00:02:04,820 --> 00:02:06,691
I was out of state for a year,
31
00:02:06,822 --> 00:02:08,258
you know,
county jail for a few,
32
00:02:08,389 --> 00:02:09,955
and then
maximum-security prison
33
00:02:10,086 --> 00:02:12,741
here in Idaho for eight years.
34
00:02:12,871 --> 00:02:17,572
So, I've spent a lot of 22-,
23-hour days in a cell.
35
00:02:19,878 --> 00:02:22,620
This is it.
36
00:02:22,751 --> 00:02:24,231
I... Everything that...
37
00:02:24,361 --> 00:02:26,755
I've been living on
for the last 20 years.
38
00:02:30,062 --> 00:02:33,065
So...
39
00:02:33,196 --> 00:02:36,504
Try to get as comfortable
as you can.
40
00:02:56,524 --> 00:02:58,352
So, Carol,
you've met Ira and Joe.
41
00:02:58,482 --> 00:03:00,005
I have.
Great guys.
42
00:03:00,136 --> 00:03:01,181
They're here
helping me out, and...
43
00:03:01,311 --> 00:03:02,834
Welcome, guys.
44
00:03:02,965 --> 00:03:04,793
She knows this case
better than anyone.
45
00:03:04,923 --> 00:03:07,012
Carol has been
the driving force.
46
00:03:07,143 --> 00:03:08,405
She's kept this visible.
47
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She drove the police efforts.
48
00:03:10,538 --> 00:03:13,715
I mean, Carol Dodge has been
the one who's kept this alive.
49
00:03:13,845 --> 00:03:16,065
All three of us here,
we're trying to figure out,
50
00:03:16,196 --> 00:03:17,719
who was in
that neighborhood?
51
00:03:17,849 --> 00:03:19,199
Who would've had access
to Angie?
52
00:03:19,329 --> 00:03:21,897
Who had familiarity
with the home?
53
00:03:22,027 --> 00:03:24,247
Because it's not in the police
reports. It's not documented.
54
00:03:24,378 --> 00:03:27,032
The neighborhood canvas
is the absolute key
55
00:03:27,163 --> 00:03:29,165
to solving
homicide cases.
56
00:03:29,296 --> 00:03:30,993
And that... it was never done.
It is 101.
57
00:03:31,123 --> 00:03:32,081
It...
It was never done.
58
00:03:32,212 --> 00:03:33,430
You know, they tried.
59
00:03:33,561 --> 00:03:35,127
I mean,
you see they're actually
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00:03:35,258 --> 00:03:36,999
entering tag numbers
on the vehicle canvas.
61
00:03:37,129 --> 00:03:39,044
Those were my tags.
62
00:03:39,175 --> 00:03:41,046
I used to take them lists
of license-plate numbers.
63
00:03:41,177 --> 00:03:43,223
Okay.
64
00:03:43,353 --> 00:03:46,835
There's specific doors
at the police station
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00:03:46,965 --> 00:03:49,011
called the Carol Dodge doors
66
00:03:49,141 --> 00:03:52,275
where you have to have
a-a code entry to get in, uh,
67
00:03:52,406 --> 00:03:54,364
because they got tired of Carol
68
00:03:54,495 --> 00:03:56,192
just coming
into the police station
69
00:03:56,323 --> 00:03:58,847
and just hounding the police
all the time.
70
00:03:58,977 --> 00:04:01,066
She keeps us on our toes.
71
00:04:01,197 --> 00:04:04,853
We have great empathy for her,
um, and she's very adamant
72
00:04:04,983 --> 00:04:07,812
about finding the killer
of her daughter.
73
00:04:07,943 --> 00:04:11,033
That woman was driven,
and she is still driven.
74
00:04:11,163 --> 00:04:12,948
There was a number of things
they could've done,
75
00:04:13,078 --> 00:04:14,123
and I think
we need to stop focusing
76
00:04:14,254 --> 00:04:15,951
on what
they didn't do.
77
00:04:16,081 --> 00:04:19,084
Yeah, there's nothing we can do
about what IFPD didn't do.
78
00:04:19,215 --> 00:04:21,783
They still haven't done
anything for her.
79
00:04:21,913 --> 00:04:23,959
Carol has asked
for 1,001 things,
80
00:04:24,089 --> 00:04:26,266
and they haven't helped
that lady.
81
00:04:26,396 --> 00:04:28,790
She's the one that's done
all this work for them.
82
00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:30,139
So,
let's get a map out.
83
00:04:30,270 --> 00:04:32,184
Let's talk
to everybody
84
00:04:32,315 --> 00:04:34,404
that's in that neighborhood
back then.
85
00:04:34,535 --> 00:04:37,015
And that's how you're gonna
identify a perpetrator.
86
00:04:37,146 --> 00:04:38,800
Right.
87
00:04:43,587 --> 00:04:45,763
Oh, it's beautiful
out here, isn't it?
88
00:04:45,894 --> 00:04:47,461
It's amazing.
89
00:04:47,591 --> 00:04:48,897
I thought
it was gonna be cold.
90
00:04:49,027 --> 00:04:50,551
Yeah, I did, too.
91
00:04:50,681 --> 00:04:51,900
I, uh... I thought
it was gonna be a lot colder,
92
00:04:52,030 --> 00:04:54,250
at night, especially.
93
00:05:01,126 --> 00:05:02,389
Hey, I'm sorry
to bother you.
94
00:05:02,519 --> 00:05:04,304
-Does Brent live here?
-No.
95
00:05:04,434 --> 00:05:05,870
Brent?
96
00:05:06,001 --> 00:05:07,394
No Brent?
97
00:05:07,524 --> 00:05:09,874
It's pretty quiet.
98
00:05:10,005 --> 00:05:12,355
Might be out back.
99
00:05:12,486 --> 00:05:14,096
Hi. I was looking
for Shane.
100
00:05:16,794 --> 00:05:18,405
Okay.
101
00:05:18,535 --> 00:05:22,191
Maybe this is him right here
in this truck.
102
00:05:22,322 --> 00:05:24,324
Nope.
103
00:05:26,717 --> 00:05:28,415
How you doing?
104
00:05:28,545 --> 00:05:30,068
I was looking
for Zach.
105
00:05:31,983 --> 00:05:34,334
Hey, we're looking
for Corey.
106
00:05:35,552 --> 00:05:36,901
Y-you expect him back or...
107
00:05:37,032 --> 00:05:38,338
Unh-unh.
108
00:05:38,468 --> 00:05:40,296
Don't have a Corey here
at all?
109
00:05:42,037 --> 00:05:44,213
Hi. How are you?
I was looking for Corey.
110
00:05:45,388 --> 00:05:46,955
No Corey here?
111
00:05:47,085 --> 00:05:48,478
Oh.
112
00:05:51,438 --> 00:05:54,745
It's almost impossible
to reconstruct that neighborhood
113
00:05:54,876 --> 00:05:57,095
Yeah,
a lot of people have moved,
114
00:05:57,226 --> 00:05:58,880
but Joe and I,
we had a opportunity
115
00:05:59,010 --> 00:06:00,403
to go out
to the crime scene.
116
00:06:00,534 --> 00:06:02,187
Yeah,
and they clearly overlooked
117
00:06:02,318 --> 00:06:05,930
the behavioral clues
of that crime scene.
118
00:06:09,064 --> 00:06:12,067
Here's that deck, Ira.
Right there.
119
00:06:12,197 --> 00:06:14,330
See,
and everybody's theorizing
120
00:06:14,461 --> 00:06:16,941
that the guy climbed up
and went up there.
121
00:06:17,072 --> 00:06:18,943
But it doesn't make
any sense.
122
00:06:19,074 --> 00:06:20,945
No.
123
00:06:21,076 --> 00:06:22,817
How do you even know she's
up there unless you know her?
124
00:06:22,947 --> 00:06:24,471
Yep.
Huh?
125
00:06:24,601 --> 00:06:26,473
Right. I mean, let's
think about it.
126
00:06:26,603 --> 00:06:28,388
There's no way you look through
that window and see her...
127
00:06:28,518 --> 00:06:31,173
Right. ...unless you see her
out on the balcony.
128
00:06:31,303 --> 00:06:34,002
But even that...
Far away.
129
00:06:34,132 --> 00:06:35,960
...they wouldn't know
if somebody's in there with her.
130
00:06:36,091 --> 00:06:37,571
Yeah!
Mnh-mnh.
131
00:06:37,701 --> 00:06:40,138
The more
I look at it,
132
00:06:40,269 --> 00:06:41,270
somebody knew
she was up in there.
133
00:06:41,401 --> 00:06:43,272
Yeah.
134
00:06:45,970 --> 00:06:48,843
So, this is the only set
of stairs in the house, right?
135
00:06:48,973 --> 00:06:50,018
Yeah.
Okay.
136
00:06:50,148 --> 00:06:53,848
This is it.
137
00:06:53,978 --> 00:06:55,458
These are
the original stairs.
138
00:06:55,589 --> 00:06:58,330
Oh, man.
You can certainly hear them.
139
00:07:01,551 --> 00:07:03,335
It's a short distance,
though.
140
00:07:03,466 --> 00:07:04,902
And somebody could
climb up here easily.
141
00:07:05,033 --> 00:07:07,122
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
142
00:07:07,252 --> 00:07:08,950
Especially if
you're younger.
143
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:10,604
No, it's not hard
to get up.
144
00:07:10,734 --> 00:07:12,301
But it's still a lot of
trouble just to... Yep.
145
00:07:15,696 --> 00:07:19,264
This perpetrator
could've easily climbed up
146
00:07:19,395 --> 00:07:22,180
and easily escaped off the roof,
but when we looked at that,
147
00:07:22,311 --> 00:07:23,965
we didn't really
believe that he did that.
148
00:07:24,095 --> 00:07:25,270
Yeah,
I-I agree, Ira.
149
00:07:25,401 --> 00:07:27,534
You're more observable
in the back, to me,
150
00:07:27,664 --> 00:07:29,361
than you would be
just walking off the street
151
00:07:29,492 --> 00:07:31,451
and walking
right into the house.
152
00:07:33,409 --> 00:07:36,412
The landlady said
that she heard steps about 4:00
153
00:07:36,543 --> 00:07:38,719
and listened to make sure
the door closed. Yes.
154
00:07:38,849 --> 00:07:40,198
I think somebody came
straight through the front door.
155
00:07:40,329 --> 00:07:41,548
Yep.
156
00:07:41,678 --> 00:07:43,419
I'm thinking
that they knew her
157
00:07:43,550 --> 00:07:45,943
and went right up in there
and knew she was there.
158
00:07:46,074 --> 00:07:48,293
Just looking at the scene,
159
00:07:48,424 --> 00:07:51,035
whoever is our perpetrator,
160
00:07:51,166 --> 00:07:53,995
there is more intimate
familiarity with Angie
161
00:07:54,125 --> 00:07:55,605
than I
originally thought.
162
00:07:55,736 --> 00:07:57,215
You know,
and they didn't have to have
163
00:07:57,346 --> 00:07:58,478
this up-close,
intimate relationship,
164
00:07:58,608 --> 00:08:00,131
but who's coming
and going
165
00:08:00,262 --> 00:08:02,090
out of that neighborhood
routinely
166
00:08:02,220 --> 00:08:04,701
that would have had a reason
to interact with her?
167
00:08:04,832 --> 00:08:07,748
So, you have to think
of the service industry,
168
00:08:07,878 --> 00:08:10,446
and the service industry is
everything from pizza delivery
169
00:08:10,577 --> 00:08:14,232
to the newspaper person
to the... to the meter reader.
170
00:08:14,363 --> 00:08:15,495
You know, I don't think
the service industry
171
00:08:15,625 --> 00:08:17,758
was ever looked at
back then.
172
00:08:23,633 --> 00:08:26,941
Looking back through
the police report,
173
00:08:27,071 --> 00:08:29,117
I found this phone-repair man.
174
00:08:29,247 --> 00:08:31,685
He... He worked for
the phone company there.
175
00:08:31,815 --> 00:08:35,645
He had done a service for Angie,
so I wanted to talk to him
176
00:08:35,776 --> 00:08:38,213
because of his contact
with Angie
177
00:08:38,343 --> 00:08:39,649
when he was in the apartment.
178
00:08:39,780 --> 00:08:43,348
So, I called him up
on the phone.
179
00:08:49,877 --> 00:08:53,097
Hello.
I am a private investigator
180
00:08:53,228 --> 00:08:56,623
calling about a case
from 21 years ago,
181
00:08:56,753 --> 00:08:59,713
and you were interviewed
on the case.
182
00:08:59,843 --> 00:09:02,019
And it was about the death
of a young girl
183
00:09:02,150 --> 00:09:03,499
over in Idaho Falls.
184
00:09:03,630 --> 00:09:04,935
Do you recall that?
185
00:09:08,809 --> 00:09:11,420
Huh.
186
00:09:11,551 --> 00:09:15,076
This might kind of, um, help
you remember a little bit...
187
00:09:15,206 --> 00:09:17,339
the police had spoken with you,
188
00:09:17,469 --> 00:09:20,734
and you had performed
some kind of a service
189
00:09:20,864 --> 00:09:23,563
at the apartment of the
young lady who was murdered...
190
00:09:25,477 --> 00:09:27,218
You recall that?
191
00:09:34,269 --> 00:09:36,097
Yeah, and I was gonna tell you,
192
00:09:36,227 --> 00:09:38,055
her name is Angie Dodge,
so if...
193
00:09:39,796 --> 00:09:42,059
Oh, your daughter
actually knew her, huh?
194
00:09:45,019 --> 00:09:47,369
Really?
195
00:09:55,551 --> 00:09:58,249
But not many of the customers
you've talked to get killed.
196
00:10:02,732 --> 00:10:04,821
Well, next time you're gonna be
in Idaho Falls,
197
00:10:04,952 --> 00:10:07,258
let me know if you got
any more information.
198
00:10:10,610 --> 00:10:14,439
Well, I appreciate you
coming down here.
199
00:10:14,570 --> 00:10:17,442
With Angie, you remember
talking to her... Yes.
200
00:10:17,573 --> 00:10:19,706
...and you remember she told you
about some problems. Right.
201
00:10:19,836 --> 00:10:22,534
Tell me about that
the best you can remember.
202
00:10:22,665 --> 00:10:26,147
She indicated
that she was getting...
203
00:10:26,277 --> 00:10:29,672
harassing phone calls
and...
204
00:10:29,803 --> 00:10:32,283
what could she do
about it?
205
00:10:32,414 --> 00:10:34,111
And at that point in time,
I told her
206
00:10:34,242 --> 00:10:38,072
that she would have to
contact the police
207
00:10:38,202 --> 00:10:41,162
or our
security department.
208
00:10:41,292 --> 00:10:43,686
Was there anything else
that was strange or odd?
209
00:10:43,817 --> 00:10:46,646
Having daughters
close to that same age,
210
00:10:46,776 --> 00:10:48,560
you... you... you...
you walked away
211
00:10:48,691 --> 00:10:51,476
and you go,
"Man, I feel bad.
212
00:10:51,607 --> 00:10:53,653
Wished I could
do something.
213
00:10:53,783 --> 00:10:56,438
I think
there's something wrong there,
214
00:10:56,568 --> 00:10:57,918
but I don't know
what it is."
215
00:10:58,048 --> 00:11:00,529
Then to, a few days later,
see it on the news,
216
00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:03,184
I told my wife, I said,
"Hey, I-I was just over there."
217
00:11:03,314 --> 00:11:04,794
So, then I called
the police,
218
00:11:04,925 --> 00:11:07,841
and I told them that I'd been
there on a trouble report.
219
00:11:07,971 --> 00:11:10,626
She told me that she was getting
harassing phone calls,
220
00:11:10,757 --> 00:11:15,109
and basically...
221
00:11:15,239 --> 00:11:17,285
that's as far
as it ever went.
222
00:11:17,415 --> 00:11:19,243
Herky,
to be honest with you,
223
00:11:19,374 --> 00:11:21,376
one of the things
that I'm doing
224
00:11:21,506 --> 00:11:22,594
is getting
male individuals
225
00:11:22,725 --> 00:11:24,335
who have had contact
with Angie...
226
00:11:24,466 --> 00:11:26,773
we're asking them
if they'd provide DNA.
227
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,561
That way, we can make sure that,
you know,
228
00:11:32,692 --> 00:11:34,737
we're not overlooking
a potential suspect.
229
00:11:34,868 --> 00:11:36,783
Is that something
you're wiling to do?
230
00:11:36,913 --> 00:11:38,785
Probably, yeah.
231
00:11:56,803 --> 00:11:58,718
Right now,
what we are doing...
232
00:11:58,848 --> 00:12:00,545
we're collecting
more DNA samples
233
00:12:00,676 --> 00:12:03,461
from persons of interest.
234
00:12:05,376 --> 00:12:08,858
I'm kind of, uh, prepared
with each house I go to
235
00:12:08,989 --> 00:12:13,341
or each person I contact,
I have a, um, DNA swab,
236
00:12:13,471 --> 00:12:15,952
and basically,
what I ask the person to do
237
00:12:16,083 --> 00:12:19,477
is take the swab out
and put it inside their mouth,
238
00:12:19,608 --> 00:12:21,436
and then I have them
place it into the box,
239
00:12:21,566 --> 00:12:25,266
uh, seal it up, and that's it.
240
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,965
The way forward on this
241
00:12:29,096 --> 00:12:32,621
is to check
as much DNA as you can
242
00:12:32,752 --> 00:12:35,276
until somebody
finally matches.
243
00:12:35,406 --> 00:12:38,018
My experience
in wrongful-conviction cases
244
00:12:38,148 --> 00:12:42,805
has been the surest way
to get an innocent person out
245
00:12:42,936 --> 00:12:46,156
is to find
the person who did it.
246
00:12:46,287 --> 00:12:48,463
Absolutely. It's sort of like,
"Take a penny, leave a penny,"
247
00:12:48,593 --> 00:12:51,814
but it's with
human beings.
248
00:12:58,473 --> 00:13:00,780
Howdy.
I was looking for Steve.
249
00:13:02,738 --> 00:13:03,826
Are you related or...
250
00:13:03,957 --> 00:13:05,872
Oh.
251
00:13:06,002 --> 00:13:08,918
You actually could save me
a lot of time.
252
00:13:09,049 --> 00:13:13,662
Why would you ever
provide your DNA?
253
00:13:13,793 --> 00:13:16,665
I mean, the short answer,
people are dumb.
254
00:13:16,796 --> 00:13:19,624
Ron,
some people will give DNA
255
00:13:19,755 --> 00:13:22,584
because they know they weren't
involved, to be fair.
256
00:13:22,714 --> 00:13:24,804
Some people want to say,
"Hey, you know what?
257
00:13:24,934 --> 00:13:27,850
I want to help find out
who killed that person,"
258
00:13:27,981 --> 00:13:30,679
because some people aren't suspicious.
Some people aren't defense attorneys
259
00:13:30,810 --> 00:13:32,550
that prepare
for things like that. And some people aren't guilty.
260
00:13:32,681 --> 00:13:34,944
People want to do
the right thing.
261
00:13:35,075 --> 00:13:38,600
Steve's on, basically, what we
call a person-of-interest list,
262
00:13:38,730 --> 00:13:41,255
but there's a real simple answer
and that's DNA.
263
00:13:43,083 --> 00:13:45,215
You being his father,
would you give me a DNA sample?
264
00:13:45,346 --> 00:13:47,609
Okay.
265
00:13:47,739 --> 00:13:50,525
It was kind of a productive week
out there.
266
00:13:50,655 --> 00:13:53,658
I got DNA from quite a few
persons of interest.
267
00:13:53,789 --> 00:13:58,446
There's a guy that
committed suicide two years
268
00:13:58,576 --> 00:14:00,752
almost to the day
of the murder,
269
00:14:00,883 --> 00:14:03,973
and one of the reasons
that I'm interested in that
270
00:14:04,104 --> 00:14:06,671
is that to our knowledge,
there haven't been
271
00:14:06,802 --> 00:14:10,893
repeated crimes
linked to the crime-scene DNA,
272
00:14:11,024 --> 00:14:14,462
and I was able
to track down his brother.
273
00:14:14,592 --> 00:14:16,377
Hi. You're James?
274
00:14:16,507 --> 00:14:18,640
I'm a private investigator,
275
00:14:18,770 --> 00:14:21,948
investing
the Angie Dodge murder.
276
00:14:22,078 --> 00:14:25,473
And this is kind of a delicate
type of a conversation
277
00:14:25,603 --> 00:14:29,694
we're gonna have here,
but at some point,
278
00:14:29,825 --> 00:14:32,393
your brother Adam
was a person of interest.
279
00:14:32,523 --> 00:14:33,785
Are you aware of that?
280
00:14:36,614 --> 00:14:38,442
I-I wondered if you would be
willing to...
281
00:14:38,573 --> 00:14:40,880
to tell me the circumstances
of his death
282
00:14:41,010 --> 00:14:44,231
if... if you don't mind.
283
00:14:44,361 --> 00:14:47,538
And I-I knew that, but, I mean,
do you know why, or...
284
00:14:54,458 --> 00:14:56,069
Oh, my.
285
00:14:56,199 --> 00:15:00,073
Okay, so, there's DNA
related to this case,
286
00:15:00,203 --> 00:15:04,164
and they've never found
the donor of that DNA.
287
00:15:04,294 --> 00:15:07,950
So, I-I-I would like to ask
a favor of you,
288
00:15:08,081 --> 00:15:10,083
and I-I don't know
how you feel about it,
289
00:15:10,213 --> 00:15:15,088
but if we could take your DNA
and test it because...
290
00:15:15,218 --> 00:15:18,700
Yeah, because your DNA and
his DNA are almost identical.
291
00:15:19,919 --> 00:15:21,877
Okay.
292
00:15:22,008 --> 00:15:23,574
You know, it was one of
those awkward situations
293
00:15:23,705 --> 00:15:26,012
because I'm gonna talk about
his brother's suicide,
294
00:15:26,142 --> 00:15:27,796
and, man,
he was great about it,
295
00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:29,406
and he said,
"Oh, absolutely."
296
00:15:29,537 --> 00:15:31,321
Gave us his DNA.
297
00:15:34,759 --> 00:15:38,024
There's another guy that...
He's a registered sex offender.
298
00:15:38,154 --> 00:15:40,940
He's got a lengthy
criminal history.
299
00:15:41,070 --> 00:15:42,680
This guy lives in a house.
300
00:15:42,811 --> 00:15:44,944
He's got a-all the windows
closed up.
301
00:15:45,074 --> 00:15:47,511
I didn't think he was ever
gonna open the door,
302
00:15:47,642 --> 00:15:48,991
but he did.
He opened the door.
303
00:15:52,386 --> 00:15:55,824
So, I asked him for DNA,
if he'd be willing to consent,
304
00:15:55,955 --> 00:15:59,306
and, um, he said no,
but anyway,
305
00:15:59,436 --> 00:16:04,006
we... we've got his DNA,
but he doesn't know it, so...
306
00:16:04,137 --> 00:16:06,095
Oh, wow!
307
00:16:06,226 --> 00:16:08,532
If he didn't just give it
to you, how'd you get it?
308
00:16:08,663 --> 00:16:10,491
I really don't wanna
talk about that.
309
00:16:10,621 --> 00:16:12,536
Okay.
No problem.
310
00:16:12,667 --> 00:16:13,929
If... If you don't want
to talk about it,
311
00:16:14,060 --> 00:16:16,410
I can assure you
I don't want to hear about it.
312
00:16:22,111 --> 00:16:24,896
So, this is my bag of evidence,
313
00:16:25,027 --> 00:16:29,814
the DNA that we've been
collecting throughout the week.
314
00:16:29,945 --> 00:16:34,167
From here, I am going to be
sending it to a lab.
315
00:16:34,297 --> 00:16:37,779
What happens from there
is kind of out of my hands.
316
00:16:48,181 --> 00:16:50,226
Chris wrote to us
317
00:16:50,357 --> 00:16:52,924
at the Idaho Innocence Project
saying,
318
00:16:53,055 --> 00:16:55,275
"There's DNA,
and I'm excluded."
319
00:16:55,405 --> 00:16:58,539
So, it wasn't clear to us
why he would've been convicted
320
00:16:58,669 --> 00:17:01,150
with that very firm evidence
in his favor.
321
00:17:03,283 --> 00:17:05,894
For years,
the state has conducted
322
00:17:06,025 --> 00:17:08,723
lots of rounds
of new DNA testing
323
00:17:08,853 --> 00:17:11,639
using several generations
of new technologies
324
00:17:11,769 --> 00:17:14,207
with the hypothesis
Chris Tapp is guilty,
325
00:17:14,337 --> 00:17:17,123
but he's not on anything
that's been tested.
326
00:17:17,253 --> 00:17:20,735
The evidence was clear
there was a single attacker
327
00:17:20,865 --> 00:17:25,653
who was definitely, positively,
scientifically not Chris Tapp.
328
00:17:25,783 --> 00:17:27,698
Do you want a Quantifiler
or a Identifiler?
329
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:29,265
Identifiler.
330
00:17:29,396 --> 00:17:31,659
So, in April,
we're getting this hearing
331
00:17:31,789 --> 00:17:33,574
to look at the DNA evidence
332
00:17:33,704 --> 00:17:37,099
and decide, does Chris Tapp
deserve a new trial?
333
00:17:39,536 --> 00:17:43,236
All of his efforts to
date in the courts have failed,
334
00:17:43,366 --> 00:17:47,805
but Chris is fortunate enough to
have one more bite at the apple.
335
00:17:47,936 --> 00:17:52,201
The two hearings in April
will deal with two issues...
336
00:17:52,332 --> 00:17:55,726
DNA testing
and there was some information
337
00:17:55,857 --> 00:17:58,338
that was not turned over
to the defense
338
00:17:58,468 --> 00:18:01,993
at the time of the trial,
including polygraph interviews.
339
00:18:02,124 --> 00:18:04,779
If the judge
rules in our favor,
340
00:18:04,909 --> 00:18:07,608
then hopefully,
I'll be home by the summertime.
341
00:18:07,738 --> 00:18:11,960
And if not, then
what else can I do?
342
00:18:16,356 --> 00:18:19,837
I am off
to Judge Mike Heavey's house
343
00:18:19,968 --> 00:18:22,536
because he volunteered his time
344
00:18:22,666 --> 00:18:25,365
as an expert on this case.
345
00:18:25,495 --> 00:18:27,932
I'm looking forward to seeing
what he thinks
346
00:18:28,063 --> 00:18:31,110
about Chris Tapp's
interrogation.
347
00:18:33,895 --> 00:18:36,071
Judge Heavey?
Ira Todd.
348
00:18:36,202 --> 00:18:37,638
How you doing, sir?
349
00:18:37,768 --> 00:18:39,553
Detective Todd,
come on in.
350
00:18:39,683 --> 00:18:40,771
Let's go downstairs.
351
00:18:43,078 --> 00:18:45,515
I started an organization,
352
00:18:45,646 --> 00:18:47,300
Judges for Justice,
353
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:50,346
to change public opinion
about wrongful convictions.
354
00:18:50,477 --> 00:18:54,307
By 2013, I was in Idaho Falls
meeting John Thomas,
355
00:18:54,437 --> 00:18:56,091
Carol Dodge,
and Chris,
356
00:18:56,222 --> 00:18:58,659
and then I sat down
for two years,
357
00:18:58,789 --> 00:19:00,226
probably 20 hours a week,
358
00:19:00,356 --> 00:19:02,793
going through
different interrogations,
359
00:19:02,924 --> 00:19:05,187
and then I saw how Tapp
ended up telling
360
00:19:05,318 --> 00:19:07,015
six separate
and distinct stories
361
00:19:07,146 --> 00:19:09,887
over a-a
3 1/2-week period.
362
00:19:15,632 --> 00:19:19,027
Chris Tapp told story number 1,
"I don't know anything,"
363
00:19:19,158 --> 00:19:23,031
and then I saw on story number
6, "I stabbed her."
364
00:19:23,162 --> 00:19:24,902
Right.
Whoa!
365
00:19:25,033 --> 00:19:26,208
Where does that
come from?
366
00:19:26,339 --> 00:19:27,992
And I couldn't
figure out why
367
00:19:28,123 --> 00:19:29,820
he would suddenly say that
out of the blue.
368
00:19:29,951 --> 00:19:32,867
I finally saw that
he's given a polygraph
369
00:19:32,997 --> 00:19:36,131
before each of
the five story changes...Mm-hmm.
370
00:19:36,262 --> 00:19:38,786
...and discovered
the January 15th,
371
00:19:38,916 --> 00:19:41,832
polygraph was never
produced to the defens.
372
00:20:00,286 --> 00:20:03,027
I call that the Rosetta Stone
of the polygraphs.
373
00:20:03,158 --> 00:20:06,117
It explains exactly
how they're trying to convince
374
00:20:06,248 --> 00:20:08,816
and coerce Tapp
into believing the polygraph
375
00:20:08,946 --> 00:20:10,165
is saying
he's at the crime.
376
00:20:33,971 --> 00:20:35,408
It was part of a trick. Right.
377
00:20:35,538 --> 00:20:37,801
It's... It's legal to trick
and to lie to somebody
378
00:20:37,932 --> 00:20:39,238
during an interrogation.
379
00:20:39,368 --> 00:20:42,066
You can trick,
manipulate, and lie...
380
00:20:42,197 --> 00:20:44,460
Right. ...during
an interrogation,
381
00:20:44,591 --> 00:20:47,071
but you can'tdo it
during a polygraph.
382
00:20:47,202 --> 00:20:49,726
Right.It's supposed to be used
just for the assessment
383
00:20:49,857 --> 00:20:51,989
of credibility
of the witness,
384
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:54,296
but they took this
way beyond that.
385
00:20:54,427 --> 00:20:56,080
Yeah.
They broke him, you know?
386
00:20:56,211 --> 00:20:57,604
They mentally destroyed
this young man.
387
00:20:57,734 --> 00:20:59,127
Yeah.
388
00:20:59,258 --> 00:21:01,085
I can't agree
with you more,
389
00:21:01,216 --> 00:21:03,087
and there's no evidence that
the missing polygraph video
390
00:21:03,218 --> 00:21:06,265
was ever given
to, uh, Tapp's trial council
391
00:21:06,395 --> 00:21:08,179
back in '97 and '98.
392
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:10,834
And that is
a Brady violation.
393
00:21:10,965 --> 00:21:12,836
The prosecution
has a duty
394
00:21:12,967 --> 00:21:15,317
to give any and all
395
00:21:15,448 --> 00:21:19,060
exculpatory, uh, information
to the defense.
396
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:21,367
So, we started
these videos,
397
00:21:21,497 --> 00:21:24,718
and when we got them
on our website,
398
00:21:24,848 --> 00:21:27,155
we got
over 10,000 views.
399
00:21:27,286 --> 00:21:30,376
That resulted in people
circling the courthouse
400
00:21:30,506 --> 00:21:32,813
with signs saying
"Free Tapp."
401
00:21:32,943 --> 00:21:35,381
So when the judge
drives into the courthouse,
402
00:21:35,511 --> 00:21:37,078
he's going, "Oh, there's
certainly a lot of people
403
00:21:37,208 --> 00:21:38,514
who think he's innocent.
404
00:21:38,645 --> 00:21:39,994
I think I'll pay attention
to this case."
405
00:21:40,124 --> 00:21:41,517
Wow.
406
00:21:41,648 --> 00:21:43,737
Would this be an opportunity
for a new trial
407
00:21:43,867 --> 00:21:46,000
or would he
get exonerated?
408
00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:49,438
April 25th, there's a hearing
on the polygraph videos,
409
00:21:49,569 --> 00:21:51,962
but there's no evidence
against Chris Tapp.
410
00:21:52,093 --> 00:21:54,008
So I think if
we get to a hearing
411
00:21:54,138 --> 00:21:55,923
and show the judge
those polygraph videos,
412
00:21:56,053 --> 00:21:59,230
Chris Tapp
is out immediately.
413
00:22:02,495 --> 00:22:04,888
Okay,
see if we can't locate
414
00:22:05,019 --> 00:22:06,890
old Mr. Finn,
the polygrapher.
415
00:22:07,021 --> 00:22:08,501
In a quarter mile,
turn right onto First Street.
416
00:22:08,631 --> 00:22:10,198
I know you'll be interested
in talking to him. Yeah.
417
00:22:10,329 --> 00:22:12,722
I mean, if you watch
those polygraph tapes,
418
00:22:12,853 --> 00:22:15,203
it will upset you.
419
00:22:15,334 --> 00:22:17,597
Let's see.
Is it one of these?
420
00:22:17,727 --> 00:22:21,165
Yes.
421
00:22:21,296 --> 00:22:23,603
That's it.
Right here, Ira.
422
00:22:33,177 --> 00:22:35,049
We got a chance to talk
to Finn and Fuhriman.
423
00:22:35,179 --> 00:22:36,442
Oh? KUBY: Uh-huh?
424
00:22:36,572 --> 00:22:38,052
And we went
to Finn's house first,
425
00:22:38,182 --> 00:22:39,836
the polygrapher.
426
00:22:41,098 --> 00:22:42,883
We want to talk
to you about
427
00:22:43,013 --> 00:22:44,275
that, uh,
Christopher Tapp case.
428
00:22:44,406 --> 00:22:45,581
Want to see
if we can, uh,
429
00:22:45,712 --> 00:22:47,322
talk to you a little bit
about that.
430
00:22:49,019 --> 00:22:51,587
You're not gonna
go into it?
431
00:22:51,718 --> 00:22:54,198
Finn comes to the door,
and the first thing he said,
432
00:22:54,329 --> 00:22:56,244
"Hey, I don't want
to talk to you guys,"
433
00:22:56,375 --> 00:22:57,941
and then he wound up talking
to us for an hour or so, right?
434
00:22:58,072 --> 00:22:59,595
Yeah.
435
00:22:59,726 --> 00:23:01,989
And he said
he gave him that polygraph
436
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,992
in conjunction with appropriate
policies and procedures.
437
00:23:05,122 --> 00:23:08,038
He was just adamant
that Chris Tapp was responsible
438
00:23:08,169 --> 00:23:09,953
for the murder
of Angie Dodge.
439
00:23:10,084 --> 00:23:12,869
But you definitely think
Chris Tapp is guilty?
440
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,437
You got... Oh, yeah?
441
00:23:15,568 --> 00:23:17,352
And you think that
because of what?
442
00:23:23,053 --> 00:23:24,098
Wow.
443
00:23:45,641 --> 00:23:47,295
And what was it
that stood out at you
444
00:23:47,426 --> 00:23:48,992
up there in her apartment
that he...
445
00:23:54,607 --> 00:23:57,044
And you guys never revealed
any of that information to him?
446
00:23:57,174 --> 00:23:58,349
All right.
447
00:24:21,677 --> 00:24:23,505
Was that video
when he went to the scene
448
00:24:23,636 --> 00:24:25,594
and took you guys
back to the scene?
449
00:24:25,725 --> 00:24:27,640
See, well, why not?
450
00:24:27,770 --> 00:24:28,641
Because that would've been
critical if you'd... if you'd...
451
00:24:28,771 --> 00:24:30,120
No video reenactment?
452
00:24:30,251 --> 00:24:31,774
Yeah, if you would've
videoed that,
453
00:24:31,905 --> 00:24:33,080
it would at least show him
pointing out the things,
454
00:24:33,210 --> 00:24:34,690
and nobody can say,
455
00:24:34,821 --> 00:24:36,953
"Hey, no, the cops told him
where it was," you know?
456
00:24:40,609 --> 00:24:42,350
And you think it was definitely
three people?
457
00:24:47,486 --> 00:24:48,965
But you just...
That's based on gut?
458
00:24:51,620 --> 00:24:53,492
And so, and the...
the information that you
459
00:24:53,622 --> 00:24:56,320
extracted from
the interviews...
460
00:24:56,451 --> 00:24:59,149
So, that's telling us
that Tapp
461
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,325
had to at least tell you
462
00:25:01,456 --> 00:25:03,327
there was
two other people involved.
463
00:25:12,946 --> 00:25:15,470
He in his mind thinks
he did that polygraph correctly
464
00:25:15,601 --> 00:25:17,559
is what... what
blows my mind.
465
00:25:17,690 --> 00:25:19,996
He thinks, in his mind,
that this dude did it.
466
00:25:20,127 --> 00:25:22,521
That was
very interesting.
467
00:25:22,651 --> 00:25:25,175
All right,
so we're gonna see
468
00:25:25,306 --> 00:25:28,657
if we can't locate
old Jared Fuhriman, Ira.
469
00:25:28,788 --> 00:25:31,530
Newly minted detective
when this case happened,
470
00:25:31,660 --> 00:25:34,184
and, uh, he ended up becoming
the mayor of Idaho Falls.
471
00:25:34,315 --> 00:25:35,534
That's kind of interesting,
huh?
472
00:25:35,664 --> 00:25:37,318
Maybe he got famous
from this case?
473
00:25:37,448 --> 00:25:39,407
Name recognition.
Yeah.
474
00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:42,279
So, you got Finn
to talk for an hour.
475
00:25:42,410 --> 00:25:44,020
Yes.What happened
with Fuhriman?
476
00:25:44,151 --> 00:25:45,544
Whoa, Fuhriman.
477
00:25:45,674 --> 00:25:47,197
So, when Joe and I
are walking up,
478
00:25:47,328 --> 00:25:48,590
Fuhriman is coming out...
479
00:25:48,721 --> 00:25:50,026
him and his wife
are in the car.
480
00:25:50,157 --> 00:25:51,375
And this guy looks,
481
00:25:51,506 --> 00:25:52,899
and he says
something funny to us.
482
00:25:54,727 --> 00:25:57,207
No.
No, no, no.
483
00:25:59,340 --> 00:26:02,082
But when we announced who we
were and what we were there for,
484
00:26:02,212 --> 00:26:04,780
all of a sudden, he couldn't
remember certain things,
485
00:26:04,911 --> 00:26:06,565
and his wife
started talking for him.
486
00:26:08,305 --> 00:26:09,611
Yeah.
487
00:26:09,742 --> 00:26:11,570
Yeah, but th--
but that's okay.
488
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:13,746
We just... We just want
to just kind of talk to him
489
00:26:13,876 --> 00:26:16,226
about some of the stuff,
and it's nothing, you know...
490
00:26:16,357 --> 00:26:17,576
we're not trying to,
like, drill him down
491
00:26:17,706 --> 00:26:19,316
or "What about this?
What about this?"
492
00:26:19,447 --> 00:26:20,840
Now, Finn had already
told us
493
00:26:20,970 --> 00:26:22,798
Fuhriman's having some problems
with his memory.
494
00:26:22,929 --> 00:26:25,235
Early stages of Alzheimer's
he'd been diagnosed. Yeah.
495
00:26:25,366 --> 00:26:27,150
Oh, wow. Uh-huh. Okay.
496
00:26:27,281 --> 00:26:29,675
And his wife said that he
couldn't run for mayor again...
497
00:26:29,805 --> 00:26:32,982
Right....because his memory is bad
and things like that.
498
00:26:44,211 --> 00:26:45,516
Right.
Yeah, I know.
499
00:26:45,647 --> 00:26:48,084
Sure. Sure.
500
00:26:52,523 --> 00:26:54,525
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
501
00:26:54,656 --> 00:26:57,572
Now,
Fuhriman's the driver,
502
00:26:57,703 --> 00:27:00,880
and I said,
"Well, can you drive?"
503
00:27:01,010 --> 00:27:03,230
You know, if you lost your memory,
would you remember a stop sign?"
504
00:27:12,326 --> 00:27:14,981
I mean, he...
505
00:27:15,111 --> 00:27:16,460
Yeah.
506
00:27:16,591 --> 00:27:19,159
Yeah.
Yeah.
507
00:27:19,289 --> 00:27:23,206
My... My...
508
00:27:23,337 --> 00:27:26,209
Mm-hmm.
509
00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:28,690
Mm-hmm.
510
00:27:28,821 --> 00:27:31,084
Mm-hmm.
511
00:27:31,214 --> 00:27:32,607
Okay.
512
00:27:32,738 --> 00:27:34,609
-Yeah.
-Yeah.
513
00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:36,567
His wife's
body language clearly changed.
514
00:27:36,698 --> 00:27:38,439
Oh, yeah. Very defensive.
515
00:27:38,569 --> 00:27:40,267
And he was trying
to stare through us, so... Yes!
516
00:27:40,397 --> 00:27:42,399
I mean, it was almost like
we'd ask him a question,
517
00:27:42,530 --> 00:27:44,488
and he was just, like...
Now he's staring straight ahead
518
00:27:44,619 --> 00:27:46,142
as if he's trying to recall.
Yes.
519
00:27:46,273 --> 00:27:48,579
His mannerisms,
his nonverbals,
520
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:51,191
all those little indicators
changed, like, immediately
521
00:27:51,321 --> 00:27:53,193
as soon as he found out
what we were there for.
522
00:27:53,323 --> 00:27:55,499
Well, we...
I-I mean, in fairness to him,
523
00:27:55,630 --> 00:27:57,240
the Alzheimer's
has been diagnosed.
524
00:27:57,371 --> 00:27:59,286
I-it has.
525
00:27:59,416 --> 00:28:01,201
But he's still sharp enough
to know to shut up.
526
00:28:01,331 --> 00:28:02,768
Yeah.
527
00:28:02,898 --> 00:28:05,205
I mean, he was not gonna
do himself any favors
528
00:28:05,335 --> 00:28:06,597
by... by talking
with you guys.
529
00:28:06,728 --> 00:28:07,686
-Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
-Okay.
530
00:28:07,816 --> 00:28:09,775
Thank you
for your time.
531
00:28:09,905 --> 00:28:10,732
We definitely
appreciate your time.Yeah. Thank you.
532
00:28:16,956 --> 00:28:18,871
Danny called me.
533
00:28:19,001 --> 00:28:21,612
He's got some very important
information to pass to us.
534
00:28:21,743 --> 00:28:23,702
So, I thought what we'd do
is reach out,
535
00:28:23,832 --> 00:28:26,487
try to catch him on Skype
this morning to see what it is.
536
00:28:26,617 --> 00:28:29,185
Good morning.
537
00:28:29,316 --> 00:28:30,709
What's going on? What's going on, Danny?
538
00:28:30,839 --> 00:28:33,537
So, the prosecutor
is in negotiations
539
00:28:33,668 --> 00:28:36,192
with Chris' attorney,
540
00:28:36,323 --> 00:28:38,717
and they are looking
to offer him a deal.
541
00:28:38,847 --> 00:28:40,240
What?!
Wow!
542
00:28:40,370 --> 00:28:42,198
Basically,
he gets out of prison,
543
00:28:42,329 --> 00:28:43,765
which of course for him,
that's great,
544
00:28:43,896 --> 00:28:46,420
but the rest of it's
really bad news.
545
00:28:46,550 --> 00:28:49,728
He will remain convicted
of first-degree murder,
546
00:28:49,858 --> 00:28:52,643
he will remain convicted of rape
547
00:28:52,774 --> 00:28:54,776
and be
a registered sex offender,
548
00:28:54,907 --> 00:28:58,780
and have probation anywhere
from 7 to 10 years.
549
00:28:58,911 --> 00:29:00,913
So, any offense at all,
you know...
550
00:29:01,043 --> 00:29:02,479
Will land him
back in.
551
00:29:02,610 --> 00:29:04,394
Exactly.
552
00:29:04,525 --> 00:29:06,222
I mean, he could go back in
and do significant time.
553
00:29:06,353 --> 00:29:07,833
It's pretty obvious
554
00:29:07,963 --> 00:29:09,269
that with some of the hearings
coming up,
555
00:29:09,399 --> 00:29:11,401
their case is crumbling,
556
00:29:11,532 --> 00:29:13,752
and I think they're trying
to avoid additional publicity.
557
00:29:13,882 --> 00:29:15,710
But if he takes
this plea,
558
00:29:15,841 --> 00:29:18,800
he's throwing away his chances
of any type of civil suit.
559
00:29:18,931 --> 00:29:21,368
Is Chris thinking of
taking the deal?
560
00:29:21,498 --> 00:29:23,805
My impression is that
John Thomas, the attorney,
561
00:29:23,936 --> 00:29:28,679
is not thrilled about the deal,
but Chris wants out of prison.
562
00:29:28,810 --> 00:29:32,248
Although he's hopeful we will
find out who the killer is
563
00:29:32,379 --> 00:29:34,773
and get him out of prison,
564
00:29:34,903 --> 00:29:36,775
he has to legitimately say,
"But when?"
565
00:29:36,905 --> 00:29:38,298
All right.
See you, Danny.
566
00:29:38,428 --> 00:29:40,169
Bye-bye.
567
00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:41,649
That's fucked up.
568
00:29:41,780 --> 00:29:43,607
Yeah, that's...
that's a little interesting.
569
00:29:43,738 --> 00:29:45,522
Feels like extortion
to me.
570
00:29:45,653 --> 00:29:47,481
If he's on probation,
571
00:29:47,611 --> 00:29:49,570
- he has prison hanging over him
at all times. - Oh.
572
00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:51,746
He can't do anything,
really.
573
00:29:51,877 --> 00:29:55,619
Having prison hanging over him
and being in prison...I agree.
574
00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:58,884
...I suspect, are two radically
different things, so...
575
00:29:59,014 --> 00:30:00,276
Look,
people will still look at him
576
00:30:00,407 --> 00:30:01,495
like he's a murderer.
577
00:30:01,625 --> 00:30:03,105
Absolutely. Yep.
578
00:30:03,236 --> 00:30:04,541
You know, he'll... he'll...
he'll carry that reputation
579
00:30:04,672 --> 00:30:05,760
for the rest of his life,
you know?
580
00:30:05,891 --> 00:30:07,327
Absolutely, Ira.
581
00:30:13,028 --> 00:30:15,509
We've been, uh,
pulling some DNA
582
00:30:15,639 --> 00:30:16,858
Mm-hmm.
583
00:30:16,989 --> 00:30:18,904
And we were hoping
you could tell us
584
00:30:19,034 --> 00:30:21,689
if these individuals matched
the DNA from our suspect.
585
00:30:39,576 --> 00:30:40,926
Not a match.
586
00:30:52,111 --> 00:30:54,548
I'm watching you like
you're grading my final exam.
587
00:30:54,678 --> 00:30:55,941
That's what
it feels like.
588
00:30:56,071 --> 00:30:57,594
I'm looking
for any sign.
589
00:31:05,385 --> 00:31:07,778
Not a match.
590
00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:11,739
Now, just out of curiosity,
what exactly are you looking at
591
00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:13,741
when you're...
when you're reading those?
592
00:31:13,872 --> 00:31:15,656
So, this is
really simple analysis.
593
00:31:15,786 --> 00:31:17,745
I mean, if I were able
to show it to you,
594
00:31:17,876 --> 00:31:20,791
it would look kind of like,
you know, two bingo cards,
595
00:31:20,922 --> 00:31:23,446
uh, and you're just
comparing to see
596
00:31:23,577 --> 00:31:26,493
if those two bingo cards
are identical.
597
00:31:26,623 --> 00:31:30,410
And I'm just looking to see
if they align.
598
00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:32,325
Just to double-check.
599
00:31:32,455 --> 00:31:33,413
Yeah, not a match.
600
00:31:33,543 --> 00:31:34,980
Okay.
601
00:31:38,026 --> 00:31:40,376
Not a match.
602
00:31:40,507 --> 00:31:42,596
Yeah, might be
a tiny bit closer,
603
00:31:42,726 --> 00:31:44,641
but not...
not close enough
604
00:31:44,772 --> 00:31:47,035
to be an interesting lead,
genetically.
605
00:31:47,166 --> 00:31:49,603
Well, that is disappointing,
but, um...
606
00:31:49,733 --> 00:31:51,170
Well, I'll tell you,
607
00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:53,737
you're not the first
to try to solve this,
608
00:31:53,868 --> 00:31:57,567
and I think this is gonna be
a very tough case to break
609
00:31:57,698 --> 00:31:59,787
because I've seen
so many good suspects.
610
00:31:59,918 --> 00:32:01,528
I just learned
long ago
611
00:32:01,658 --> 00:32:05,314
that all of the people
I thought were good candidates,
612
00:32:05,445 --> 00:32:06,968
nobody's panned out.
613
00:32:07,099 --> 00:32:10,450
So, um, I j-- It's just
a complete mystery to me.
614
00:32:19,850 --> 00:32:22,549
The last two weeks
have been insane.
615
00:32:28,250 --> 00:32:31,950
The negotiations have been
a roller coaster.
616
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,041
It's gone from no deal
to there's absolutely a deal,
617
00:32:36,171 --> 00:32:37,781
back to no deal.
618
00:32:40,132 --> 00:32:42,003
The judge is ready
to talk to you guys
619
00:32:42,134 --> 00:32:43,700
over in
the Centennial Chambers.
620
00:32:43,831 --> 00:32:44,919
Okay, I'll be there
in a minute.
621
00:32:45,050 --> 00:32:46,442
Thanks.
622
00:32:53,667 --> 00:32:55,886
Okay,
let's shut it down, guys,
623
00:32:56,017 --> 00:32:58,498
and, uh,
right before 11:00, okay?Okay.
624
00:32:58,628 --> 00:33:01,370
I want to make sure
everybody's over there.
625
00:33:10,771 --> 00:33:13,904
I don't know what to feel.
626
00:33:20,781 --> 00:33:23,566
We have done
a complete 360 turnaround
627
00:33:23,697 --> 00:33:25,481
from just days before.
628
00:33:27,483 --> 00:33:28,615
Yeah?
629
00:33:35,056 --> 00:33:37,667
Let me
get him in there.
630
00:33:37,798 --> 00:33:39,539
The prosecutor asked me
what I wanted,
631
00:33:39,669 --> 00:33:41,671
and I told him,
632
00:33:41,802 --> 00:33:44,022
"Chris doesn't want to be
on probation or on parole.
633
00:33:44,152 --> 00:33:45,893
He doesn't want to be
a sex offender.
634
00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:48,026
He doesn't want to have to
answer to anybody.
635
00:33:48,156 --> 00:33:51,116
He just wants
to be done completely."
636
00:33:51,246 --> 00:33:54,597
And the prosecutor said,
"Let's do it."
637
00:33:54,728 --> 00:33:58,384
But until the judge has
accepted it, it's not a deal.
638
00:34:05,347 --> 00:34:07,654
Will there be any
victim-impact statements today?
639
00:34:07,784 --> 00:34:09,351
There will,
Your Honor.
640
00:34:09,482 --> 00:34:12,137
We'd like the court
to first hear from Carol Dodge.
641
00:34:12,267 --> 00:34:16,184
Okay.
Go ahead, Ms. Dodge.
642
00:34:16,315 --> 00:34:18,665
Sitting here today,
643
00:34:18,795 --> 00:34:23,104
a whole flood of memories
came back, Chris,
644
00:34:23,235 --> 00:34:26,412
the day that we stood here
and chose your jury...
645
00:34:28,979 --> 00:34:32,896
...the jury that convicted you.
646
00:34:35,769 --> 00:34:38,598
Little did we know
what we know now,
647
00:34:38,728 --> 00:34:41,688
and with great sadness...
648
00:34:43,820 --> 00:34:47,781
...20 years of your life
has been taken from you.
649
00:34:47,911 --> 00:34:51,045
I can't imagine that...
650
00:34:52,873 --> 00:34:54,918
...knowing what we know now,
651
00:34:55,049 --> 00:34:59,706
that anyone
can convict someone...
652
00:34:59,836 --> 00:35:02,796
that there's no DNA,
653
00:35:02,926 --> 00:35:05,755
but we've learned a lot,
Chris...
654
00:35:05,886 --> 00:35:08,106
a great deal.
655
00:35:08,236 --> 00:35:11,283
I have definitely
learned a lot,
656
00:35:11,413 --> 00:35:15,896
and I'm saddened
that I don't see
657
00:35:16,026 --> 00:35:19,682
any of the Idaho Falls
Police Department here,
658
00:35:19,813 --> 00:35:22,120
representing my daughter,
659
00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:24,992
saying that they'll help me
find justice.
660
00:35:25,123 --> 00:35:29,605
I'm so saddened,
but I'm extremely, extremely...
661
00:35:31,955 --> 00:35:36,046
...happy for you
that you have your life back.
662
00:35:36,177 --> 00:35:39,572
Although it's not the deal
that your mother wanted.
663
00:35:39,702 --> 00:35:41,965
It's not the deal I wanted.
664
00:35:42,096 --> 00:35:46,448
It's a-a cynic saying that for
right now, we'll set you free.
665
00:35:46,579 --> 00:35:48,798
Somewhat.
666
00:35:48,929 --> 00:35:52,672
Your new journey is not
going to be an easy one, Chris,
667
00:35:52,802 --> 00:35:55,283
but stay clean and stay sober.
668
00:35:56,893 --> 00:35:58,460
Stay on track.
669
00:36:00,158 --> 00:36:02,551
Thank you, Ms. Dodge.
670
00:36:04,292 --> 00:36:07,817
I hereby rule as follows...
671
00:36:07,948 --> 00:36:11,081
the rape charge is hereby
dismissed with prejudice,
672
00:36:11,212 --> 00:36:14,041
and the defendant, Mr. Tapp,
having been found guilty
673
00:36:14,172 --> 00:36:16,217
of the charge of murder
in the first degree,
674
00:36:16,348 --> 00:36:19,699
that the defendant is guilty
of that offense.
675
00:36:19,829 --> 00:36:23,006
And his sentence on
that offense is amended to
676
00:36:23,137 --> 00:36:25,792
a unified, fixed term
of 20 years
677
00:36:25,922 --> 00:36:29,230
plus any additional time
that you, Mr. Tapp,
678
00:36:29,361 --> 00:36:32,015
have served up to
and including today.
679
00:36:32,146 --> 00:36:35,193
You are receiving credit
by order of this court
680
00:36:35,323 --> 00:36:38,239
for all the time served
with the intent
681
00:36:38,370 --> 00:36:41,938
that you be released
from custody today,
682
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:46,595
your sentence having been
completed or satisfied.
683
00:36:46,726 --> 00:36:49,859
You will be free to go.
684
00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:53,776
Bye, Chris.
685
00:36:55,343 --> 00:36:56,823
Tell 'em, brother!
686
00:36:56,953 --> 00:36:58,607
No, we're good.
687
00:37:50,311 --> 00:37:52,095
You're gonna go
all the way out.
688
00:37:52,226 --> 00:37:53,619
Victory! Victory!
689
00:37:53,749 --> 00:37:56,099
Yes! Whoo!
690
00:37:57,927 --> 00:37:59,277
An innocent man
is free.
691
00:37:59,407 --> 00:38:01,235
Innocent man!
Victory!Freedom!
692
00:38:01,366 --> 00:38:02,236
Freedom!Freedom.
693
00:38:02,367 --> 00:38:04,499
Yes!
694
00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:07,110
We are ecstatic that
Chris Tapp is walking free.
695
00:38:07,241 --> 00:38:09,199
Chris Tapp is innocent,
696
00:38:09,330 --> 00:38:13,943
and I will shout that from the
rooftops until the day I die.
697
00:38:14,074 --> 00:38:17,817
And for the person, uh,
who did kill Angie Dodge,
698
00:38:17,947 --> 00:38:20,776
uh, there's a bounty
on your head.
699
00:38:20,907 --> 00:38:23,344
There are 50 cameras here,
700
00:38:23,475 --> 00:38:26,216
and there are people
coming for you.
701
00:38:26,347 --> 00:38:27,957
And we are looking for you,
702
00:38:28,088 --> 00:38:30,830
and we will not stop
until we find you.
703
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,964
And when we do find you,
we will bring you to justice
704
00:38:35,095 --> 00:38:37,315
because that's
the right thing to do.
705
00:38:54,244 --> 00:38:57,030
We are sorry.
706
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,293
It's so good
to see you.
707
00:38:59,424 --> 00:39:02,165
I never in a million years
708
00:39:02,296 --> 00:39:03,602
thought that this
was gonna happen
709
00:39:03,732 --> 00:39:06,039
without actually
finding the killer.
710
00:39:06,169 --> 00:39:08,215
Should we
go back in?
711
00:39:08,346 --> 00:39:10,348
Yeah.
Let me say goodbye to people.Okay.
712
00:39:10,478 --> 00:39:13,046
A lot of people told Chris,
"Don't take the deal.
713
00:39:13,176 --> 00:39:14,700
It's a terrible deal."
714
00:39:20,096 --> 00:39:22,621
But Chris said,
"John, this is what I want.
715
00:39:22,751 --> 00:39:26,189
This is the safest route
to get me out, you know?"
716
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:27,974
And he was having to
talk me into it
717
00:39:28,104 --> 00:39:30,019
'cause we're giving
something up.
718
00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:32,065
There's still
a murder conviction.
719
00:39:32,195 --> 00:39:34,154
So glad
to see you, Chris!
720
00:39:34,284 --> 00:39:38,114
But Chris said, "John, how many
post-convictions have we filed?
721
00:39:38,245 --> 00:39:40,508
How many times have we been,
you know,
722
00:39:40,639 --> 00:39:42,380
u-up to the Supreme Court,"
723
00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:44,382
and he's like,
"Every time, we've lost.
724
00:39:44,512 --> 00:39:46,253
We've lost, we've lost.
725
00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:49,212
This time, we can walk away.
726
00:39:49,343 --> 00:39:51,563
How you feeling, Chris?Overwhelmed.
727
00:39:51,693 --> 00:39:54,566
For Chris Tapp,
the deal that he struck is,
728
00:39:54,696 --> 00:39:58,483
to me, the last
shameless manipulation of Tapp
729
00:39:58,613 --> 00:40:00,485
by the criminal justice system.
730
00:40:00,615 --> 00:40:03,313
It is a sad day for justice
731
00:40:03,444 --> 00:40:06,360
because Chris Tapp
is a convicted murderer
732
00:40:06,491 --> 00:40:09,581
of a crime he had
absolutely nothing to do with,
733
00:40:09,711 --> 00:40:13,193
but Chris Tapp is free today.
734
00:40:13,323 --> 00:40:16,283
And that's what we started out
wanting to do.
735
00:40:16,414 --> 00:40:17,980
Let's do the victory,
everyone.
736
00:40:18,111 --> 00:40:20,026
Yes! Victory!
737
00:40:20,156 --> 00:40:22,463
And I think the message
came across really clear...
738
00:40:22,594 --> 00:40:24,552
he's an innocent man.
739
00:40:24,683 --> 00:40:27,033
I says,
"For you to take this deal,"
740
00:40:27,163 --> 00:40:29,339
I says, "I don't appreciate it."
741
00:40:29,470 --> 00:40:32,212
I says, "But you know what?
I'll take it."
742
00:40:32,342 --> 00:40:34,344
He's home.
743
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,439
Mm! Man!
744
00:40:41,569 --> 00:40:43,179
I've been waiting 20 years
for this.
745
00:40:43,310 --> 00:40:46,792
Oh!
Oh!
746
00:40:46,922 --> 00:40:48,881
Jer.
747
00:40:49,011 --> 00:40:50,360
How you doing?
748
00:40:50,491 --> 00:40:52,450
I'm scared
and frustrated.
749
00:40:52,580 --> 00:40:54,408
Yeah?
Overwhelmed, really.
750
00:40:54,539 --> 00:40:55,931
Well,
what's your plan?
751
00:40:56,062 --> 00:40:57,585
I'm gonna be around
for a few days.
752
00:40:57,716 --> 00:40:59,631
I'd like to be able to just
spend some time with you.
753
00:40:59,761 --> 00:41:01,328
I know you're gonna be
really busy.
754
00:41:01,459 --> 00:41:02,982
Today's gonna be
really bad,
755
00:41:03,112 --> 00:41:04,940
but, like, they're coming over
tomorrow night.
756
00:41:05,071 --> 00:41:07,073
Let's get together in th--
tomorrow.
757
00:41:07,203 --> 00:41:10,250
Okay. Your mom and everybody's
got my phone number.
758
00:41:21,740 --> 00:41:25,439
We're on our way
to pick up Chris Tapp.
759
00:41:25,570 --> 00:41:29,835
Yesterday was the first time I-I
seen him in person in 20 years.
760
00:41:33,142 --> 00:41:34,970
I did not visit him in jail.
761
00:41:35,101 --> 00:41:36,929
I was, uh,
a little upset with him
762
00:41:37,059 --> 00:41:39,584
for most of his stay in jail.
763
00:41:39,714 --> 00:41:44,545
There was about 17 years,
and, yeah, I didn't want to...
764
00:41:44,676 --> 00:41:48,984
didn't want to think about it
or accept it at all.
765
00:41:54,555 --> 00:41:56,644
Okay.
766
00:41:56,775 --> 00:41:58,516
I hated Chris so bad.
767
00:41:58,646 --> 00:42:00,518
"How could he name me?
What the hell?
768
00:42:00,648 --> 00:42:02,258
I thought we were friends."
769
00:42:02,389 --> 00:42:04,173
It hurt so bad.
770
00:42:04,304 --> 00:42:07,176
I couldn't go anywhere
or do anything
771
00:42:07,307 --> 00:42:09,048
without this being
a huge part of it,
772
00:42:09,178 --> 00:42:11,093
so I left town,
773
00:42:11,224 --> 00:42:15,445
and i-it's affected me
for a long time.
774
00:42:15,576 --> 00:42:19,624
All of a sudden,
Judge Heavey comes out
775
00:42:19,754 --> 00:42:22,583
with his Judges for Justice
videotapes,
776
00:42:22,714 --> 00:42:25,107
and... and what an eye-opener.
777
00:42:27,370 --> 00:42:29,372
What an eye-opener to see
778
00:42:29,503 --> 00:42:33,072
the way that they were behaving
to Chris and...
779
00:42:33,202 --> 00:42:36,249
At that point,
I felt so bad for hating him
780
00:42:36,379 --> 00:42:38,251
and... and being so mad,
781
00:42:38,381 --> 00:42:41,471
sitting here watching
what he went through.
782
00:42:52,091 --> 00:42:54,397
Hey, Jer.
783
00:42:54,528 --> 00:42:55,921
Uh, I'm lost.
784
00:42:56,051 --> 00:42:57,836
I'm at 816?
785
00:42:57,966 --> 00:43:02,449
I will be standing
on the front porch right now.
786
00:43:02,580 --> 00:43:05,408
Aha!
We found him.
787
00:43:05,539 --> 00:43:07,672
That's right.
788
00:43:15,375 --> 00:43:17,333
Okay, so...
789
00:43:17,464 --> 00:43:19,509
Hi, buddy.
790
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,382
Are you all right?
791
00:43:22,512 --> 00:43:24,384
Yeah,
it's been a while, you know?
792
00:43:24,514 --> 00:43:25,603
How you doing?
Good, bro.
793
00:43:25,733 --> 00:43:27,474
Did you sleep?
No.
794
00:43:27,605 --> 00:43:29,563
It's kinda hard.Wigged out already.
795
00:43:29,694 --> 00:43:31,130
Yeah. When we went to
Kohl's to go shopping,
796
00:43:31,260 --> 00:43:32,392
I already wigged out.
797
00:43:32,522 --> 00:43:33,654
Had my first...
Aah?
798
00:43:33,785 --> 00:43:35,308
Aah!
And ran out of the store.
799
00:43:35,438 --> 00:43:37,092
Yeah?
So, yeah.
800
00:43:37,223 --> 00:43:38,964
It's been...
been one of those pieces.
801
00:43:39,094 --> 00:43:41,619
We can do whatever
you want to do this afternoon.Yeah.
802
00:43:41,749 --> 00:43:43,533
Yeah, dude.Don't trip on me.
803
00:43:43,664 --> 00:43:45,666
You're free, man. Dude.I know. So...
804
00:43:45,797 --> 00:43:47,537
It's so overwhelming.
So much to do.
805
00:43:47,668 --> 00:43:49,496
Yeah?
But...
806
00:43:49,627 --> 00:43:51,629
Well, we got years
to get through it.That's it.
807
00:43:51,759 --> 00:43:54,501
Let's get out of here.
I'm hungry.
808
00:43:57,765 --> 00:44:00,725
Thank you, everybody,
for being here today.
809
00:44:00,855 --> 00:44:04,685
In June 1996,
810
00:44:04,816 --> 00:44:07,775
the Dodge family
and the city of Idaho Falls...
811
00:44:07,906 --> 00:44:10,212
experienced the death of
a young girl named Angie Dodge.
812
00:44:23,835 --> 00:44:27,665
We're very empathetic
to the Dodge family...
813
00:44:27,795 --> 00:44:29,579
especially Carol.
814
00:44:31,407 --> 00:44:33,061
For the loss of her daughter,
815
00:44:33,192 --> 00:44:36,630
we continue to look for new ways
to identify Angie's killer.
816
00:44:36,761 --> 00:44:39,459
So, today, we're here
to introduce a picture
817
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:41,504
referred to as a DNA phenotype
818
00:44:41,635 --> 00:44:44,725
in hopes of providing
the department with new leads.
819
00:44:44,856 --> 00:44:48,686
This DNA phenotype
gives a profile
820
00:44:48,816 --> 00:44:51,514
of what the DNA donor
could look like,
821
00:44:51,645 --> 00:44:53,473
and then it was age-enhanced
822
00:44:53,603 --> 00:44:57,346
to 20 years later.
823
00:44:57,477 --> 00:44:59,740
Thank you, everybody,
for your cooperation of this,
824
00:44:59,871 --> 00:45:01,699
and please,
get this out in the public
825
00:45:01,829 --> 00:45:03,613
so that we can receive tips.
826
00:45:06,355 --> 00:45:08,836
Phenotyping has proven
to be reliable
827
00:45:08,967 --> 00:45:11,491
in terms of actually
getting a suspect.
828
00:45:11,621 --> 00:45:13,667
You know, basically,
they're looking at eye color,
829
00:45:13,798 --> 00:45:15,625
hair color, freckling,
that type stuff.
830
00:45:15,756 --> 00:45:17,279
This right here is a way
831
00:45:17,410 --> 00:45:18,977
of pointing us
in the right direction.
832
00:45:19,107 --> 00:45:20,935
And they won't
try to tell you
833
00:45:21,066 --> 00:45:23,329
that it's gonna tell you
who the suspect is.Right.
834
00:45:23,459 --> 00:45:25,723
They make that disclaimer
right up front,
835
00:45:25,853 --> 00:45:27,420
but what it does is it...
it... it at least gives you
836
00:45:27,550 --> 00:45:28,943
a guide path of someone
837
00:45:29,074 --> 00:45:31,293
or, hey, this is what,
in all probability,
838
00:45:31,424 --> 00:45:32,817
what your suspect
should look like.
839
00:45:32,947 --> 00:45:34,775
Right. It's almost perfect
for a cold case...
840
00:45:34,906 --> 00:45:36,777
Oh, yeah. ...where
we've got nothing.
841
00:45:36,908 --> 00:45:38,779
So,
it gives us something. Yeah. Yeah.
842
00:45:48,049 --> 00:45:51,749
I'm on my way over
to Chris Tapp's house.
843
00:45:51,879 --> 00:45:56,536
I want to talk with him about
why he felt pressured to confess
844
00:45:56,666 --> 00:46:00,496
and just kind of
get a feel for...
845
00:46:00,627 --> 00:46:02,890
what kind of person he is
846
00:46:03,021 --> 00:46:06,285
and if he's 100% innocent.
847
00:46:12,639 --> 00:46:14,423
So, let's go
all the way back there.
848
00:46:14,554 --> 00:46:16,251
Were you on drugs
during that time?
849
00:46:16,382 --> 00:46:17,905
I was trying
to get clean.
850
00:46:18,036 --> 00:46:19,515
I was smoking some weed
off and on, here or there,
851
00:46:19,646 --> 00:46:21,387
but methamphetamines
and stuff like that, no.
852
00:46:21,517 --> 00:46:23,345
Okay, and they take you
directly to the station?
853
00:46:23,476 --> 00:46:24,738
Right.Were you under arrest?
854
00:46:24,869 --> 00:46:26,696
No. They told me
I wasn't under arrest.
855
00:46:26,827 --> 00:46:28,524
But were you
free to leave?
856
00:46:28,655 --> 00:46:30,831
After they were done with me.
857
00:46:30,962 --> 00:46:32,920
And why didn't you think
you were free to leave?
858
00:46:33,051 --> 00:46:35,314
Because you could hear
the lock on the door.
859
00:46:35,444 --> 00:46:36,968
So, they locked you in? Yeah.
860
00:46:37,098 --> 00:46:39,492
And so, all the stuff
you told them was a lie?Yeah.
861
00:46:39,622 --> 00:46:41,363
Total lie?
Yeah.
862
00:46:41,494 --> 00:46:43,061
So, you never cut Angie at all?
No.
863
00:46:43,191 --> 00:46:44,802
Ever? I never... Like I
said, I never cut Angie.
864
00:46:44,932 --> 00:46:46,281
I never
held Angie down.
865
00:46:46,412 --> 00:46:47,761
I've never been
to Angie's apartment
866
00:46:47,892 --> 00:46:49,545
till the police department
took me there.
867
00:46:49,676 --> 00:46:51,330
You ever stabbed anybody? No.
868
00:46:51,460 --> 00:46:52,548
You ever shot anybody?
No.
869
00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:53,767
Ever killed anybody?
No.
870
00:46:53,898 --> 00:46:54,724
You had no idea
who killed Angie?
871
00:46:54,855 --> 00:46:56,422
None.
872
00:46:56,552 --> 00:46:58,293
So, why would
an innocent man
873
00:46:58,424 --> 00:46:59,642
confess to a crime
that he didn't do?
874
00:47:01,949 --> 00:47:04,256
'Cause I wanted
to go home.
875
00:47:10,088 --> 00:47:12,917
'Cause I kept believing
that it was gonna be okay.
876
00:47:13,047 --> 00:47:14,657
I kept believing the words that
they would keep telling me,
877
00:47:14,788 --> 00:47:15,963
that it was gonna be
all right.
878
00:47:16,094 --> 00:47:18,705
They could help me,
and it'd be okay.
879
00:47:18,836 --> 00:47:20,446
You ever wanted
to talk to them?
880
00:47:20,576 --> 00:47:22,665
No. Hell, no.
Why not?
881
00:47:22,796 --> 00:47:24,624
The Idaho Falls
Police Department
882
00:47:24,754 --> 00:47:27,496
will never admit
they made a mistake. You hate them?
883
00:47:27,627 --> 00:47:29,629
If they were on fire, you wouldn't
piss on them to put them out?
884
00:47:29,759 --> 00:47:31,065
I wouldn't.
885
00:47:31,196 --> 00:47:33,546
I'd just turn my back
and walk away.
886
00:47:33,676 --> 00:47:35,461
That's what
they did to me.
887
00:47:35,591 --> 00:47:37,115
Wow.
888
00:47:37,245 --> 00:47:39,421
How do you feel about it
right now?
889
00:47:39,552 --> 00:47:42,511
What about the pain
you're going through?
890
00:47:45,688 --> 00:47:47,516
I see it, too.
Y-You got to let it go, man.
891
00:47:47,647 --> 00:47:48,996
You got to...
I'm good.
892
00:47:49,127 --> 00:47:50,693
No, but you got to let it out.
I'm good.
893
00:47:50,824 --> 00:47:52,695
You're full.
Talk to me about it.
894
00:47:52,826 --> 00:47:54,610
It just hurts.
895
00:47:54,741 --> 00:47:57,483
How does an innocent person
sit in jail the whole time,
896
00:47:57,613 --> 00:47:59,441
knowing that
he's innocent?
897
00:48:01,443 --> 00:48:03,532
Y-You lose yourself
in prison.
898
00:48:03,663 --> 00:48:05,578
I lost myself in prison
for years.
899
00:48:05,708 --> 00:48:06,971
One of
my true friends,
900
00:48:07,101 --> 00:48:08,624
he told me
I'm one of the most nicest,
901
00:48:08,755 --> 00:48:09,930
caring persons
in the world.
902
00:48:10,061 --> 00:48:12,454
And to a certain degree,
I am.
903
00:48:12,585 --> 00:48:17,024
But you do things in prison
to survive.
904
00:48:17,155 --> 00:48:21,637
And I know that
there's a mean streak in me now.
905
00:48:21,768 --> 00:48:23,726
What do you
think about?
906
00:48:25,554 --> 00:48:27,643
Everything you lose.
907
00:48:29,210 --> 00:48:30,951
What'd you lose?I had a father.
908
00:48:31,082 --> 00:48:32,735
I had family.
You know what I mean?
909
00:48:32,866 --> 00:48:34,476
At the start
of all this,
910
00:48:34,607 --> 00:48:36,391
I had people turn their back
on me and my family.
911
00:48:36,522 --> 00:48:38,306
You know,
I lost a lot.
912
00:48:45,966 --> 00:48:47,794
For... For the...
Ever since I've come home,
913
00:48:47,925 --> 00:48:49,317
I just tell people
that I'm good.
914
00:48:49,448 --> 00:48:50,623
You know what I mean?
915
00:48:50,753 --> 00:48:52,625
But you're not.
I survive.
916
00:48:52,755 --> 00:48:54,018
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
917
00:48:54,148 --> 00:48:57,978
For that, I guess,
I'm thankful.
918
00:49:01,329 --> 00:49:04,550
I walked away from there
thinking like,
919
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,988
"This guy is the most honest guy
I ever met in my life."
920
00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:10,512
I'm sitting there
looking at him,
921
00:49:10,643 --> 00:49:12,210
and he's reliving it,
922
00:49:12,340 --> 00:49:15,474
and, you know,
watching him tear up,
923
00:49:15,604 --> 00:49:17,824
and this guy just seems
so genuine to me.
924
00:49:26,746 --> 00:49:28,661
And all it'd take, really,
925
00:49:28,791 --> 00:49:31,577
is for someone
to stop the madness, you know?
926
00:49:31,707 --> 00:49:33,057
Say, "Hey, we made a mistake."
927
00:49:33,187 --> 00:49:34,797
No one's willing to say that.
928
00:49:34,928 --> 00:49:36,886
So, here we are,
21 years later,
929
00:49:37,017 --> 00:49:40,499
trying to find out
who killed Angie Dodge.
930
00:49:43,806 --> 00:49:45,895
Police work
and the justice system
931
00:49:46,026 --> 00:49:47,680
is not about closing cases.
932
00:49:47,810 --> 00:49:49,682
It's about getting it right
933
00:49:49,812 --> 00:49:54,165
'cause everybody suffers when
the wrong person is locked up.
934
00:49:54,295 --> 00:49:57,211
I think you better
make dang well sure
935
00:49:57,342 --> 00:49:59,387
that you got
the right person,
936
00:49:59,518 --> 00:50:02,564
because let me tell you,
they have ruined this family.
937
00:50:02,695 --> 00:50:06,438
But that's okay.
938
00:50:06,568 --> 00:50:07,961
We'll figure it out.
939
00:50:08,092 --> 00:50:09,789
We'll just take it
one day at a time, you know,
940
00:50:09,919 --> 00:50:11,791
and just go on
and, you know,
941
00:50:11,921 --> 00:50:13,880
it's just like
having a kid.
942
00:50:14,011 --> 00:50:16,143
They don't give you a manual
when you have a kid.
943
00:50:16,274 --> 00:50:17,927
No. And that's just
what we're gonna do,
944
00:50:18,058 --> 00:50:19,451
is start all over again,
you know?
945
00:50:19,581 --> 00:50:21,235
You've been gone
for 20 years.
946
00:50:21,366 --> 00:50:25,587
They don't give us a manual
about when a-a person comes back
947
00:50:25,718 --> 00:50:28,373
out of being incarcerated,
you know?
948
00:50:28,503 --> 00:50:30,418
I think there's a book,
but don't quote me.No, yeah, well,
949
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:33,465
we... we better hurry and find
it because we're gonna need it.
950
00:50:36,250 --> 00:50:37,730
We're fighters.
951
00:50:37,860 --> 00:50:39,471
We'll bounce back.
71591
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