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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:21,325 --> 00:00:23,893 Angie Dodge's life was cut short last night. 2 00:00:25,590 --> 00:00:28,941 It was a horrible shock to her friends and family. 3 00:00:29,072 --> 00:00:31,161 She's almost decapitated. 4 00:00:31,292 --> 00:00:33,816 The perpetrator clearly left his DNA. 5 00:00:33,946 --> 00:00:35,905 They pull in Chris Tapp. 6 00:00:39,213 --> 00:00:41,780 Chris... you could push him around a little bit. 7 00:00:45,784 --> 00:00:47,482 Detective Fuhriman wouldn't back down. 8 00:00:51,094 --> 00:00:52,574 How dare he? 9 00:00:52,704 --> 00:00:55,011 IFPD had me programmed 10 00:00:55,142 --> 00:00:57,970 that Chris was part of my daughter's killing. 11 00:00:58,101 --> 00:01:00,538 There's no physical evidence that puts him there. 12 00:01:00,669 --> 00:01:02,018 -Yeah. -Period. 13 00:01:02,149 --> 00:01:04,716 But people were confused. 14 00:01:04,847 --> 00:01:07,719 Why would someone admit to something that they didn't do? 15 00:01:07,850 --> 00:01:11,245 I was on a campaign to say, "They wronged him. They wronged me. 16 00:01:11,375 --> 00:01:12,898 They got the wrong person." 17 00:01:13,029 --> 00:01:15,205 These are people that lived 18 00:01:15,336 --> 00:01:17,729 right in that neighborhood in 1996. 19 00:01:17,860 --> 00:01:19,470 We're gonna get the right guy on this one. We have to. 20 00:01:25,868 --> 00:01:28,262 It is the judgment of the court that you are guilty 21 00:01:28,392 --> 00:01:32,266 of the crimes of murder in the first degree and rape. 22 00:01:32,396 --> 00:01:35,051 It is the order of the court that you be sentenced 23 00:01:35,182 --> 00:01:37,706 to the Idaho Penitentiary for a term of life 24 00:01:37,836 --> 00:01:41,666 plus 15 years with 30 years fixed. 25 00:01:50,849 --> 00:01:53,025 Prison is a dog-eat-dog world. 26 00:01:53,156 --> 00:01:55,202 You know, survival of the fittest. 27 00:01:55,332 --> 00:01:57,769 So, you learn how to survive in here. 28 00:01:59,989 --> 00:02:01,904 The facility that we're at right now, 29 00:02:02,034 --> 00:02:04,689 I've been here for a grand total of 10 years. 30 00:02:04,820 --> 00:02:06,691 I was out of state for a year, 31 00:02:06,822 --> 00:02:08,258 you know, county jail for a few, 32 00:02:08,389 --> 00:02:09,955 and then maximum-security prison 33 00:02:10,086 --> 00:02:12,741 here in Idaho for eight years. 34 00:02:12,871 --> 00:02:17,572 So, I've spent a lot of 22-, 23-hour days in a cell. 35 00:02:19,878 --> 00:02:22,620 This is it. 36 00:02:22,751 --> 00:02:24,231 I... Everything that... 37 00:02:24,361 --> 00:02:26,755 I've been living on for the last 20 years. 38 00:02:30,062 --> 00:02:33,065 So... 39 00:02:33,196 --> 00:02:36,504 Try to get as comfortable as you can. 40 00:02:56,524 --> 00:02:58,352 So, Carol, you've met Ira and Joe. 41 00:02:58,482 --> 00:03:00,005 I have. Great guys. 42 00:03:00,136 --> 00:03:01,181 They're here helping me out, and... 43 00:03:01,311 --> 00:03:02,834 Welcome, guys. 44 00:03:02,965 --> 00:03:04,793 She knows this case better than anyone. 45 00:03:04,923 --> 00:03:07,012 Carol has been the driving force. 46 00:03:07,143 --> 00:03:08,405 She's kept this visible. 47 00:03:08,536 --> 00:03:10,407 She drove the police efforts. 48 00:03:10,538 --> 00:03:13,715 I mean, Carol Dodge has been the one who's kept this alive. 49 00:03:13,845 --> 00:03:16,065 All three of us here, we're trying to figure out, 50 00:03:16,196 --> 00:03:17,719 who was in that neighborhood? 51 00:03:17,849 --> 00:03:19,199 Who would've had access to Angie? 52 00:03:19,329 --> 00:03:21,897 Who had familiarity with the home? 53 00:03:22,027 --> 00:03:24,247 Because it's not in the police reports. It's not documented. 54 00:03:24,378 --> 00:03:27,032 The neighborhood canvas is the absolute key 55 00:03:27,163 --> 00:03:29,165 to solving homicide cases. 56 00:03:29,296 --> 00:03:30,993 And that... it was never done. It is 101. 57 00:03:31,123 --> 00:03:32,081 It... It was never done. 58 00:03:32,212 --> 00:03:33,430 You know, they tried. 59 00:03:33,561 --> 00:03:35,127 I mean, you see they're actually 60 00:03:35,258 --> 00:03:36,999 entering tag numbers on the vehicle canvas. 61 00:03:37,129 --> 00:03:39,044 Those were my tags. 62 00:03:39,175 --> 00:03:41,046 I used to take them lists of license-plate numbers. 63 00:03:41,177 --> 00:03:43,223 Okay. 64 00:03:43,353 --> 00:03:46,835 There's specific doors at the police station 65 00:03:46,965 --> 00:03:49,011 called the Carol Dodge doors 66 00:03:49,141 --> 00:03:52,275 where you have to have a-a code entry to get in, uh, 67 00:03:52,406 --> 00:03:54,364 because they got tired of Carol 68 00:03:54,495 --> 00:03:56,192 just coming into the police station 69 00:03:56,323 --> 00:03:58,847 and just hounding the police all the time. 70 00:03:58,977 --> 00:04:01,066 She keeps us on our toes. 71 00:04:01,197 --> 00:04:04,853 We have great empathy for her, um, and she's very adamant 72 00:04:04,983 --> 00:04:07,812 about finding the killer of her daughter. 73 00:04:07,943 --> 00:04:11,033 That woman was driven, and she is still driven. 74 00:04:11,163 --> 00:04:12,948 There was a number of things they could've done, 75 00:04:13,078 --> 00:04:14,123 and I think we need to stop focusing 76 00:04:14,254 --> 00:04:15,951 on what they didn't do. 77 00:04:16,081 --> 00:04:19,084 Yeah, there's nothing we can do about what IFPD didn't do. 78 00:04:19,215 --> 00:04:21,783 They still haven't done anything for her. 79 00:04:21,913 --> 00:04:23,959 Carol has asked for 1,001 things, 80 00:04:24,089 --> 00:04:26,266 and they haven't helped that lady. 81 00:04:26,396 --> 00:04:28,790 She's the one that's done all this work for them. 82 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:30,139 So, let's get a map out. 83 00:04:30,270 --> 00:04:32,184 Let's talk to everybody 84 00:04:32,315 --> 00:04:34,404 that's in that neighborhood back then. 85 00:04:34,535 --> 00:04:37,015 And that's how you're gonna identify a perpetrator. 86 00:04:37,146 --> 00:04:38,800 Right. 87 00:04:43,587 --> 00:04:45,763 Oh, it's beautiful out here, isn't it? 88 00:04:45,894 --> 00:04:47,461 It's amazing. 89 00:04:47,591 --> 00:04:48,897 I thought it was gonna be cold. 90 00:04:49,027 --> 00:04:50,551 Yeah, I did, too. 91 00:04:50,681 --> 00:04:51,900 I, uh... I thought it was gonna be a lot colder, 92 00:04:52,030 --> 00:04:54,250 at night, especially. 93 00:05:01,126 --> 00:05:02,389 Hey, I'm sorry to bother you. 94 00:05:02,519 --> 00:05:04,304 -Does Brent live here? -No. 95 00:05:04,434 --> 00:05:05,870 Brent? 96 00:05:06,001 --> 00:05:07,394 No Brent? 97 00:05:07,524 --> 00:05:09,874 It's pretty quiet. 98 00:05:10,005 --> 00:05:12,355 Might be out back. 99 00:05:12,486 --> 00:05:14,096 Hi. I was looking for Shane. 100 00:05:16,794 --> 00:05:18,405 Okay. 101 00:05:18,535 --> 00:05:22,191 Maybe this is him right here in this truck. 102 00:05:22,322 --> 00:05:24,324 Nope. 103 00:05:26,717 --> 00:05:28,415 How you doing? 104 00:05:28,545 --> 00:05:30,068 I was looking for Zach. 105 00:05:31,983 --> 00:05:34,334 Hey, we're looking for Corey. 106 00:05:35,552 --> 00:05:36,901 Y-you expect him back or... 107 00:05:37,032 --> 00:05:38,338 Unh-unh. 108 00:05:38,468 --> 00:05:40,296 Don't have a Corey here at all? 109 00:05:42,037 --> 00:05:44,213 Hi. How are you? I was looking for Corey. 110 00:05:45,388 --> 00:05:46,955 No Corey here? 111 00:05:47,085 --> 00:05:48,478 Oh. 112 00:05:51,438 --> 00:05:54,745 It's almost impossible to reconstruct that neighborhood 113 00:05:54,876 --> 00:05:57,095 Yeah, a lot of people have moved, 114 00:05:57,226 --> 00:05:58,880 but Joe and I, we had a opportunity 115 00:05:59,010 --> 00:06:00,403 to go out to the crime scene. 116 00:06:00,534 --> 00:06:02,187 Yeah, and they clearly overlooked 117 00:06:02,318 --> 00:06:05,930 the behavioral clues of that crime scene. 118 00:06:09,064 --> 00:06:12,067 Here's that deck, Ira. Right there. 119 00:06:12,197 --> 00:06:14,330 See, and everybody's theorizing 120 00:06:14,461 --> 00:06:16,941 that the guy climbed up and went up there. 121 00:06:17,072 --> 00:06:18,943 But it doesn't make any sense. 122 00:06:19,074 --> 00:06:20,945 No. 123 00:06:21,076 --> 00:06:22,817 How do you even know she's up there unless you know her? 124 00:06:22,947 --> 00:06:24,471 Yep. Huh? 125 00:06:24,601 --> 00:06:26,473 Right. I mean, let's think about it. 126 00:06:26,603 --> 00:06:28,388 There's no way you look through that window and see her... 127 00:06:28,518 --> 00:06:31,173 Right. ...unless you see her out on the balcony. 128 00:06:31,303 --> 00:06:34,002 But even that... Far away. 129 00:06:34,132 --> 00:06:35,960 ...they wouldn't know if somebody's in there with her. 130 00:06:36,091 --> 00:06:37,571 Yeah! Mnh-mnh. 131 00:06:37,701 --> 00:06:40,138 The more I look at it, 132 00:06:40,269 --> 00:06:41,270 somebody knew she was up in there. 133 00:06:41,401 --> 00:06:43,272 Yeah. 134 00:06:45,970 --> 00:06:48,843 So, this is the only set of stairs in the house, right? 135 00:06:48,973 --> 00:06:50,018 Yeah. Okay. 136 00:06:50,148 --> 00:06:53,848 This is it. 137 00:06:53,978 --> 00:06:55,458 These are the original stairs. 138 00:06:55,589 --> 00:06:58,330 Oh, man. You can certainly hear them. 139 00:07:01,551 --> 00:07:03,335 It's a short distance, though. 140 00:07:03,466 --> 00:07:04,902 And somebody could climb up here easily. 141 00:07:05,033 --> 00:07:07,122 Oh, yeah. Absolutely. 142 00:07:07,252 --> 00:07:08,950 Especially if you're younger. 143 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:10,604 No, it's not hard to get up. 144 00:07:10,734 --> 00:07:12,301 But it's still a lot of trouble just to... Yep. 145 00:07:15,696 --> 00:07:19,264 This perpetrator could've easily climbed up 146 00:07:19,395 --> 00:07:22,180 and easily escaped off the roof, but when we looked at that, 147 00:07:22,311 --> 00:07:23,965 we didn't really believe that he did that. 148 00:07:24,095 --> 00:07:25,270 Yeah, I-I agree, Ira. 149 00:07:25,401 --> 00:07:27,534 You're more observable in the back, to me, 150 00:07:27,664 --> 00:07:29,361 than you would be just walking off the street 151 00:07:29,492 --> 00:07:31,451 and walking right into the house. 152 00:07:33,409 --> 00:07:36,412 The landlady said that she heard steps about 4:00 153 00:07:36,543 --> 00:07:38,719 and listened to make sure the door closed. Yes. 154 00:07:38,849 --> 00:07:40,198 I think somebody came straight through the front door. 155 00:07:40,329 --> 00:07:41,548 Yep. 156 00:07:41,678 --> 00:07:43,419 I'm thinking that they knew her 157 00:07:43,550 --> 00:07:45,943 and went right up in there and knew she was there. 158 00:07:46,074 --> 00:07:48,293 Just looking at the scene, 159 00:07:48,424 --> 00:07:51,035 whoever is our perpetrator, 160 00:07:51,166 --> 00:07:53,995 there is more intimate familiarity with Angie 161 00:07:54,125 --> 00:07:55,605 than I originally thought. 162 00:07:55,736 --> 00:07:57,215 You know, and they didn't have to have 163 00:07:57,346 --> 00:07:58,478 this up-close, intimate relationship, 164 00:07:58,608 --> 00:08:00,131 but who's coming and going 165 00:08:00,262 --> 00:08:02,090 out of that neighborhood routinely 166 00:08:02,220 --> 00:08:04,701 that would have had a reason to interact with her? 167 00:08:04,832 --> 00:08:07,748 So, you have to think of the service industry, 168 00:08:07,878 --> 00:08:10,446 and the service industry is everything from pizza delivery 169 00:08:10,577 --> 00:08:14,232 to the newspaper person to the... to the meter reader. 170 00:08:14,363 --> 00:08:15,495 You know, I don't think the service industry 171 00:08:15,625 --> 00:08:17,758 was ever looked at back then. 172 00:08:23,633 --> 00:08:26,941 Looking back through the police report, 173 00:08:27,071 --> 00:08:29,117 I found this phone-repair man. 174 00:08:29,247 --> 00:08:31,685 He... He worked for the phone company there. 175 00:08:31,815 --> 00:08:35,645 He had done a service for Angie, so I wanted to talk to him 176 00:08:35,776 --> 00:08:38,213 because of his contact with Angie 177 00:08:38,343 --> 00:08:39,649 when he was in the apartment. 178 00:08:39,780 --> 00:08:43,348 So, I called him up on the phone. 179 00:08:49,877 --> 00:08:53,097 Hello. I am a private investigator 180 00:08:53,228 --> 00:08:56,623 calling about a case from 21 years ago, 181 00:08:56,753 --> 00:08:59,713 and you were interviewed on the case. 182 00:08:59,843 --> 00:09:02,019 And it was about the death of a young girl 183 00:09:02,150 --> 00:09:03,499 over in Idaho Falls. 184 00:09:03,630 --> 00:09:04,935 Do you recall that? 185 00:09:08,809 --> 00:09:11,420 Huh. 186 00:09:11,551 --> 00:09:15,076 This might kind of, um, help you remember a little bit... 187 00:09:15,206 --> 00:09:17,339 the police had spoken with you, 188 00:09:17,469 --> 00:09:20,734 and you had performed some kind of a service 189 00:09:20,864 --> 00:09:23,563 at the apartment of the young lady who was murdered... 190 00:09:25,477 --> 00:09:27,218 You recall that? 191 00:09:34,269 --> 00:09:36,097 Yeah, and I was gonna tell you, 192 00:09:36,227 --> 00:09:38,055 her name is Angie Dodge, so if... 193 00:09:39,796 --> 00:09:42,059 Oh, your daughter actually knew her, huh? 194 00:09:45,019 --> 00:09:47,369 Really? 195 00:09:55,551 --> 00:09:58,249 But not many of the customers you've talked to get killed. 196 00:10:02,732 --> 00:10:04,821 Well, next time you're gonna be in Idaho Falls, 197 00:10:04,952 --> 00:10:07,258 let me know if you got any more information. 198 00:10:10,610 --> 00:10:14,439 Well, I appreciate you coming down here. 199 00:10:14,570 --> 00:10:17,442 With Angie, you remember talking to her... Yes. 200 00:10:17,573 --> 00:10:19,706 ...and you remember she told you about some problems. Right. 201 00:10:19,836 --> 00:10:22,534 Tell me about that the best you can remember. 202 00:10:22,665 --> 00:10:26,147 She indicated that she was getting... 203 00:10:26,277 --> 00:10:29,672 harassing phone calls and... 204 00:10:29,803 --> 00:10:32,283 what could she do about it? 205 00:10:32,414 --> 00:10:34,111 And at that point in time, I told her 206 00:10:34,242 --> 00:10:38,072 that she would have to contact the police 207 00:10:38,202 --> 00:10:41,162 or our security department. 208 00:10:41,292 --> 00:10:43,686 Was there anything else that was strange or odd? 209 00:10:43,817 --> 00:10:46,646 Having daughters close to that same age, 210 00:10:46,776 --> 00:10:48,560 you... you... you... you walked away 211 00:10:48,691 --> 00:10:51,476 and you go, "Man, I feel bad. 212 00:10:51,607 --> 00:10:53,653 Wished I could do something. 213 00:10:53,783 --> 00:10:56,438 I think there's something wrong there, 214 00:10:56,568 --> 00:10:57,918 but I don't know what it is." 215 00:10:58,048 --> 00:11:00,529 Then to, a few days later, see it on the news, 216 00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:03,184 I told my wife, I said, "Hey, I-I was just over there." 217 00:11:03,314 --> 00:11:04,794 So, then I called the police, 218 00:11:04,925 --> 00:11:07,841 and I told them that I'd been there on a trouble report. 219 00:11:07,971 --> 00:11:10,626 She told me that she was getting harassing phone calls, 220 00:11:10,757 --> 00:11:15,109 and basically... 221 00:11:15,239 --> 00:11:17,285 that's as far as it ever went. 222 00:11:17,415 --> 00:11:19,243 Herky, to be honest with you, 223 00:11:19,374 --> 00:11:21,376 one of the things that I'm doing 224 00:11:21,506 --> 00:11:22,594 is getting male individuals 225 00:11:22,725 --> 00:11:24,335 who have had contact with Angie... 226 00:11:24,466 --> 00:11:26,773 we're asking them if they'd provide DNA. 227 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,561 That way, we can make sure that, you know, 228 00:11:32,692 --> 00:11:34,737 we're not overlooking a potential suspect. 229 00:11:34,868 --> 00:11:36,783 Is that something you're wiling to do? 230 00:11:36,913 --> 00:11:38,785 Probably, yeah. 231 00:11:56,803 --> 00:11:58,718 Right now, what we are doing... 232 00:11:58,848 --> 00:12:00,545 we're collecting more DNA samples 233 00:12:00,676 --> 00:12:03,461 from persons of interest. 234 00:12:05,376 --> 00:12:08,858 I'm kind of, uh, prepared with each house I go to 235 00:12:08,989 --> 00:12:13,341 or each person I contact, I have a, um, DNA swab, 236 00:12:13,471 --> 00:12:15,952 and basically, what I ask the person to do 237 00:12:16,083 --> 00:12:19,477 is take the swab out and put it inside their mouth, 238 00:12:19,608 --> 00:12:21,436 and then I have them place it into the box, 239 00:12:21,566 --> 00:12:25,266 uh, seal it up, and that's it. 240 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,965 The way forward on this 241 00:12:29,096 --> 00:12:32,621 is to check as much DNA as you can 242 00:12:32,752 --> 00:12:35,276 until somebody finally matches. 243 00:12:35,406 --> 00:12:38,018 My experience in wrongful-conviction cases 244 00:12:38,148 --> 00:12:42,805 has been the surest way to get an innocent person out 245 00:12:42,936 --> 00:12:46,156 is to find the person who did it. 246 00:12:46,287 --> 00:12:48,463 Absolutely. It's sort of like, "Take a penny, leave a penny," 247 00:12:48,593 --> 00:12:51,814 but it's with human beings. 248 00:12:58,473 --> 00:13:00,780 Howdy. I was looking for Steve. 249 00:13:02,738 --> 00:13:03,826 Are you related or... 250 00:13:03,957 --> 00:13:05,872 Oh. 251 00:13:06,002 --> 00:13:08,918 You actually could save me a lot of time. 252 00:13:09,049 --> 00:13:13,662 Why would you ever provide your DNA? 253 00:13:13,793 --> 00:13:16,665 I mean, the short answer, people are dumb. 254 00:13:16,796 --> 00:13:19,624 Ron, some people will give DNA 255 00:13:19,755 --> 00:13:22,584 because they know they weren't involved, to be fair. 256 00:13:22,714 --> 00:13:24,804 Some people want to say, "Hey, you know what? 257 00:13:24,934 --> 00:13:27,850 I want to help find out who killed that person," 258 00:13:27,981 --> 00:13:30,679 because some people aren't suspicious. Some people aren't defense attorneys 259 00:13:30,810 --> 00:13:32,550 that prepare for things like that. And some people aren't guilty. 260 00:13:32,681 --> 00:13:34,944 People want to do the right thing. 261 00:13:35,075 --> 00:13:38,600 Steve's on, basically, what we call a person-of-interest list, 262 00:13:38,730 --> 00:13:41,255 but there's a real simple answer and that's DNA. 263 00:13:43,083 --> 00:13:45,215 You being his father, would you give me a DNA sample? 264 00:13:45,346 --> 00:13:47,609 Okay. 265 00:13:47,739 --> 00:13:50,525 It was kind of a productive week out there. 266 00:13:50,655 --> 00:13:53,658 I got DNA from quite a few persons of interest. 267 00:13:53,789 --> 00:13:58,446 There's a guy that committed suicide two years 268 00:13:58,576 --> 00:14:00,752 almost to the day of the murder, 269 00:14:00,883 --> 00:14:03,973 and one of the reasons that I'm interested in that 270 00:14:04,104 --> 00:14:06,671 is that to our knowledge, there haven't been 271 00:14:06,802 --> 00:14:10,893 repeated crimes linked to the crime-scene DNA, 272 00:14:11,024 --> 00:14:14,462 and I was able to track down his brother. 273 00:14:14,592 --> 00:14:16,377 Hi. You're James? 274 00:14:16,507 --> 00:14:18,640 I'm a private investigator, 275 00:14:18,770 --> 00:14:21,948 investing the Angie Dodge murder. 276 00:14:22,078 --> 00:14:25,473 And this is kind of a delicate type of a conversation 277 00:14:25,603 --> 00:14:29,694 we're gonna have here, but at some point, 278 00:14:29,825 --> 00:14:32,393 your brother Adam was a person of interest. 279 00:14:32,523 --> 00:14:33,785 Are you aware of that? 280 00:14:36,614 --> 00:14:38,442 I-I wondered if you would be willing to... 281 00:14:38,573 --> 00:14:40,880 to tell me the circumstances of his death 282 00:14:41,010 --> 00:14:44,231 if... if you don't mind. 283 00:14:44,361 --> 00:14:47,538 And I-I knew that, but, I mean, do you know why, or... 284 00:14:54,458 --> 00:14:56,069 Oh, my. 285 00:14:56,199 --> 00:15:00,073 Okay, so, there's DNA related to this case, 286 00:15:00,203 --> 00:15:04,164 and they've never found the donor of that DNA. 287 00:15:04,294 --> 00:15:07,950 So, I-I-I would like to ask a favor of you, 288 00:15:08,081 --> 00:15:10,083 and I-I don't know how you feel about it, 289 00:15:10,213 --> 00:15:15,088 but if we could take your DNA and test it because... 290 00:15:15,218 --> 00:15:18,700 Yeah, because your DNA and his DNA are almost identical. 291 00:15:19,919 --> 00:15:21,877 Okay. 292 00:15:22,008 --> 00:15:23,574 You know, it was one of those awkward situations 293 00:15:23,705 --> 00:15:26,012 because I'm gonna talk about his brother's suicide, 294 00:15:26,142 --> 00:15:27,796 and, man, he was great about it, 295 00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:29,406 and he said, "Oh, absolutely." 296 00:15:29,537 --> 00:15:31,321 Gave us his DNA. 297 00:15:34,759 --> 00:15:38,024 There's another guy that... He's a registered sex offender. 298 00:15:38,154 --> 00:15:40,940 He's got a lengthy criminal history. 299 00:15:41,070 --> 00:15:42,680 This guy lives in a house. 300 00:15:42,811 --> 00:15:44,944 He's got a-all the windows closed up. 301 00:15:45,074 --> 00:15:47,511 I didn't think he was ever gonna open the door, 302 00:15:47,642 --> 00:15:48,991 but he did. He opened the door. 303 00:15:52,386 --> 00:15:55,824 So, I asked him for DNA, if he'd be willing to consent, 304 00:15:55,955 --> 00:15:59,306 and, um, he said no, but anyway, 305 00:15:59,436 --> 00:16:04,006 we... we've got his DNA, but he doesn't know it, so... 306 00:16:04,137 --> 00:16:06,095 Oh, wow! 307 00:16:06,226 --> 00:16:08,532 If he didn't just give it to you, how'd you get it? 308 00:16:08,663 --> 00:16:10,491 I really don't wanna talk about that. 309 00:16:10,621 --> 00:16:12,536 Okay. No problem. 310 00:16:12,667 --> 00:16:13,929 If... If you don't want to talk about it, 311 00:16:14,060 --> 00:16:16,410 I can assure you I don't want to hear about it. 312 00:16:22,111 --> 00:16:24,896 So, this is my bag of evidence, 313 00:16:25,027 --> 00:16:29,814 the DNA that we've been collecting throughout the week. 314 00:16:29,945 --> 00:16:34,167 From here, I am going to be sending it to a lab. 315 00:16:34,297 --> 00:16:37,779 What happens from there is kind of out of my hands. 316 00:16:48,181 --> 00:16:50,226 Chris wrote to us 317 00:16:50,357 --> 00:16:52,924 at the Idaho Innocence Project saying, 318 00:16:53,055 --> 00:16:55,275 "There's DNA, and I'm excluded." 319 00:16:55,405 --> 00:16:58,539 So, it wasn't clear to us why he would've been convicted 320 00:16:58,669 --> 00:17:01,150 with that very firm evidence in his favor. 321 00:17:03,283 --> 00:17:05,894 For years, the state has conducted 322 00:17:06,025 --> 00:17:08,723 lots of rounds of new DNA testing 323 00:17:08,853 --> 00:17:11,639 using several generations of new technologies 324 00:17:11,769 --> 00:17:14,207 with the hypothesis Chris Tapp is guilty, 325 00:17:14,337 --> 00:17:17,123 but he's not on anything that's been tested. 326 00:17:17,253 --> 00:17:20,735 The evidence was clear there was a single attacker 327 00:17:20,865 --> 00:17:25,653 who was definitely, positively, scientifically not Chris Tapp. 328 00:17:25,783 --> 00:17:27,698 Do you want a Quantifiler or a Identifiler? 329 00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:29,265 Identifiler. 330 00:17:29,396 --> 00:17:31,659 So, in April, we're getting this hearing 331 00:17:31,789 --> 00:17:33,574 to look at the DNA evidence 332 00:17:33,704 --> 00:17:37,099 and decide, does Chris Tapp deserve a new trial? 333 00:17:39,536 --> 00:17:43,236 All of his efforts to date in the courts have failed, 334 00:17:43,366 --> 00:17:47,805 but Chris is fortunate enough to have one more bite at the apple. 335 00:17:47,936 --> 00:17:52,201 The two hearings in April will deal with two issues... 336 00:17:52,332 --> 00:17:55,726 DNA testing and there was some information 337 00:17:55,857 --> 00:17:58,338 that was not turned over to the defense 338 00:17:58,468 --> 00:18:01,993 at the time of the trial, including polygraph interviews. 339 00:18:02,124 --> 00:18:04,779 If the judge rules in our favor, 340 00:18:04,909 --> 00:18:07,608 then hopefully, I'll be home by the summertime. 341 00:18:07,738 --> 00:18:11,960 And if not, then what else can I do? 342 00:18:16,356 --> 00:18:19,837 I am off to Judge Mike Heavey's house 343 00:18:19,968 --> 00:18:22,536 because he volunteered his time 344 00:18:22,666 --> 00:18:25,365 as an expert on this case. 345 00:18:25,495 --> 00:18:27,932 I'm looking forward to seeing what he thinks 346 00:18:28,063 --> 00:18:31,110 about Chris Tapp's interrogation. 347 00:18:33,895 --> 00:18:36,071 Judge Heavey? Ira Todd. 348 00:18:36,202 --> 00:18:37,638 How you doing, sir? 349 00:18:37,768 --> 00:18:39,553 Detective Todd, come on in. 350 00:18:39,683 --> 00:18:40,771 Let's go downstairs. 351 00:18:43,078 --> 00:18:45,515 I started an organization, 352 00:18:45,646 --> 00:18:47,300 Judges for Justice, 353 00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:50,346 to change public opinion about wrongful convictions. 354 00:18:50,477 --> 00:18:54,307 By 2013, I was in Idaho Falls meeting John Thomas, 355 00:18:54,437 --> 00:18:56,091 Carol Dodge, and Chris, 356 00:18:56,222 --> 00:18:58,659 and then I sat down for two years, 357 00:18:58,789 --> 00:19:00,226 probably 20 hours a week, 358 00:19:00,356 --> 00:19:02,793 going through different interrogations, 359 00:19:02,924 --> 00:19:05,187 and then I saw how Tapp ended up telling 360 00:19:05,318 --> 00:19:07,015 six separate and distinct stories 361 00:19:07,146 --> 00:19:09,887 over a-a 3 1/2-week period. 362 00:19:15,632 --> 00:19:19,027 Chris Tapp told story number 1, "I don't know anything," 363 00:19:19,158 --> 00:19:23,031 and then I saw on story number 6, "I stabbed her." 364 00:19:23,162 --> 00:19:24,902 Right. Whoa! 365 00:19:25,033 --> 00:19:26,208 Where does that come from? 366 00:19:26,339 --> 00:19:27,992 And I couldn't figure out why 367 00:19:28,123 --> 00:19:29,820 he would suddenly say that out of the blue. 368 00:19:29,951 --> 00:19:32,867 I finally saw that he's given a polygraph 369 00:19:32,997 --> 00:19:36,131 before each of the five story changes...Mm-hmm. 370 00:19:36,262 --> 00:19:38,786 ...and discovered the January 15th, 371 00:19:38,916 --> 00:19:41,832 polygraph was never produced to the defens. 372 00:20:00,286 --> 00:20:03,027 I call that the Rosetta Stone of the polygraphs. 373 00:20:03,158 --> 00:20:06,117 It explains exactly how they're trying to convince 374 00:20:06,248 --> 00:20:08,816 and coerce Tapp into believing the polygraph 375 00:20:08,946 --> 00:20:10,165 is saying he's at the crime. 376 00:20:33,971 --> 00:20:35,408 It was part of a trick. Right. 377 00:20:35,538 --> 00:20:37,801 It's... It's legal to trick and to lie to somebody 378 00:20:37,932 --> 00:20:39,238 during an interrogation. 379 00:20:39,368 --> 00:20:42,066 You can trick, manipulate, and lie... 380 00:20:42,197 --> 00:20:44,460 Right. ...during an interrogation, 381 00:20:44,591 --> 00:20:47,071 but you can'tdo it during a polygraph. 382 00:20:47,202 --> 00:20:49,726 Right.It's supposed to be used just for the assessment 383 00:20:49,857 --> 00:20:51,989 of credibility of the witness, 384 00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:54,296 but they took this way beyond that. 385 00:20:54,427 --> 00:20:56,080 Yeah. They broke him, you know? 386 00:20:56,211 --> 00:20:57,604 They mentally destroyed this young man. 387 00:20:57,734 --> 00:20:59,127 Yeah. 388 00:20:59,258 --> 00:21:01,085 I can't agree with you more, 389 00:21:01,216 --> 00:21:03,087 and there's no evidence that the missing polygraph video 390 00:21:03,218 --> 00:21:06,265 was ever given to, uh, Tapp's trial council 391 00:21:06,395 --> 00:21:08,179 back in '97 and '98. 392 00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:10,834 And that is a Brady violation. 393 00:21:10,965 --> 00:21:12,836 The prosecution has a duty 394 00:21:12,967 --> 00:21:15,317 to give any and all 395 00:21:15,448 --> 00:21:19,060 exculpatory, uh, information to the defense. 396 00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:21,367 So, we started these videos, 397 00:21:21,497 --> 00:21:24,718 and when we got them on our website, 398 00:21:24,848 --> 00:21:27,155 we got over 10,000 views. 399 00:21:27,286 --> 00:21:30,376 That resulted in people circling the courthouse 400 00:21:30,506 --> 00:21:32,813 with signs saying "Free Tapp." 401 00:21:32,943 --> 00:21:35,381 So when the judge drives into the courthouse, 402 00:21:35,511 --> 00:21:37,078 he's going, "Oh, there's certainly a lot of people 403 00:21:37,208 --> 00:21:38,514 who think he's innocent. 404 00:21:38,645 --> 00:21:39,994 I think I'll pay attention to this case." 405 00:21:40,124 --> 00:21:41,517 Wow. 406 00:21:41,648 --> 00:21:43,737 Would this be an opportunity for a new trial 407 00:21:43,867 --> 00:21:46,000 or would he get exonerated? 408 00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:49,438 April 25th, there's a hearing on the polygraph videos, 409 00:21:49,569 --> 00:21:51,962 but there's no evidence against Chris Tapp. 410 00:21:52,093 --> 00:21:54,008 So I think if we get to a hearing 411 00:21:54,138 --> 00:21:55,923 and show the judge those polygraph videos, 412 00:21:56,053 --> 00:21:59,230 Chris Tapp is out immediately. 413 00:22:02,495 --> 00:22:04,888 Okay, see if we can't locate 414 00:22:05,019 --> 00:22:06,890 old Mr. Finn, the polygrapher. 415 00:22:07,021 --> 00:22:08,501 In a quarter mile, turn right onto First Street. 416 00:22:08,631 --> 00:22:10,198 I know you'll be interested in talking to him. Yeah. 417 00:22:10,329 --> 00:22:12,722 I mean, if you watch those polygraph tapes, 418 00:22:12,853 --> 00:22:15,203 it will upset you. 419 00:22:15,334 --> 00:22:17,597 Let's see. Is it one of these? 420 00:22:17,727 --> 00:22:21,165 Yes. 421 00:22:21,296 --> 00:22:23,603 That's it. Right here, Ira. 422 00:22:33,177 --> 00:22:35,049 We got a chance to talk to Finn and Fuhriman. 423 00:22:35,179 --> 00:22:36,442 Oh? KUBY: Uh-huh? 424 00:22:36,572 --> 00:22:38,052 And we went to Finn's house first, 425 00:22:38,182 --> 00:22:39,836 the polygrapher. 426 00:22:41,098 --> 00:22:42,883 We want to talk to you about 427 00:22:43,013 --> 00:22:44,275 that, uh, Christopher Tapp case. 428 00:22:44,406 --> 00:22:45,581 Want to see if we can, uh, 429 00:22:45,712 --> 00:22:47,322 talk to you a little bit about that. 430 00:22:49,019 --> 00:22:51,587 You're not gonna go into it? 431 00:22:51,718 --> 00:22:54,198 Finn comes to the door, and the first thing he said, 432 00:22:54,329 --> 00:22:56,244 "Hey, I don't want to talk to you guys," 433 00:22:56,375 --> 00:22:57,941 and then he wound up talking to us for an hour or so, right? 434 00:22:58,072 --> 00:22:59,595 Yeah. 435 00:22:59,726 --> 00:23:01,989 And he said he gave him that polygraph 436 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,992 in conjunction with appropriate policies and procedures. 437 00:23:05,122 --> 00:23:08,038 He was just adamant that Chris Tapp was responsible 438 00:23:08,169 --> 00:23:09,953 for the murder of Angie Dodge. 439 00:23:10,084 --> 00:23:12,869 But you definitely think Chris Tapp is guilty? 440 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,437 You got... Oh, yeah? 441 00:23:15,568 --> 00:23:17,352 And you think that because of what? 442 00:23:23,053 --> 00:23:24,098 Wow. 443 00:23:45,641 --> 00:23:47,295 And what was it that stood out at you 444 00:23:47,426 --> 00:23:48,992 up there in her apartment that he... 445 00:23:54,607 --> 00:23:57,044 And you guys never revealed any of that information to him? 446 00:23:57,174 --> 00:23:58,349 All right. 447 00:24:21,677 --> 00:24:23,505 Was that video when he went to the scene 448 00:24:23,636 --> 00:24:25,594 and took you guys back to the scene? 449 00:24:25,725 --> 00:24:27,640 See, well, why not? 450 00:24:27,770 --> 00:24:28,641 Because that would've been critical if you'd... if you'd... 451 00:24:28,771 --> 00:24:30,120 No video reenactment? 452 00:24:30,251 --> 00:24:31,774 Yeah, if you would've videoed that, 453 00:24:31,905 --> 00:24:33,080 it would at least show him pointing out the things, 454 00:24:33,210 --> 00:24:34,690 and nobody can say, 455 00:24:34,821 --> 00:24:36,953 "Hey, no, the cops told him where it was," you know? 456 00:24:40,609 --> 00:24:42,350 And you think it was definitely three people? 457 00:24:47,486 --> 00:24:48,965 But you just... That's based on gut? 458 00:24:51,620 --> 00:24:53,492 And so, and the... the information that you 459 00:24:53,622 --> 00:24:56,320 extracted from the interviews... 460 00:24:56,451 --> 00:24:59,149 So, that's telling us that Tapp 461 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,325 had to at least tell you 462 00:25:01,456 --> 00:25:03,327 there was two other people involved. 463 00:25:12,946 --> 00:25:15,470 He in his mind thinks he did that polygraph correctly 464 00:25:15,601 --> 00:25:17,559 is what... what blows my mind. 465 00:25:17,690 --> 00:25:19,996 He thinks, in his mind, that this dude did it. 466 00:25:20,127 --> 00:25:22,521 That was very interesting. 467 00:25:22,651 --> 00:25:25,175 All right, so we're gonna see 468 00:25:25,306 --> 00:25:28,657 if we can't locate old Jared Fuhriman, Ira. 469 00:25:28,788 --> 00:25:31,530 Newly minted detective when this case happened, 470 00:25:31,660 --> 00:25:34,184 and, uh, he ended up becoming the mayor of Idaho Falls. 471 00:25:34,315 --> 00:25:35,534 That's kind of interesting, huh? 472 00:25:35,664 --> 00:25:37,318 Maybe he got famous from this case? 473 00:25:37,448 --> 00:25:39,407 Name recognition. Yeah. 474 00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:42,279 So, you got Finn to talk for an hour. 475 00:25:42,410 --> 00:25:44,020 Yes.What happened with Fuhriman? 476 00:25:44,151 --> 00:25:45,544 Whoa, Fuhriman. 477 00:25:45,674 --> 00:25:47,197 So, when Joe and I are walking up, 478 00:25:47,328 --> 00:25:48,590 Fuhriman is coming out... 479 00:25:48,721 --> 00:25:50,026 him and his wife are in the car. 480 00:25:50,157 --> 00:25:51,375 And this guy looks, 481 00:25:51,506 --> 00:25:52,899 and he says something funny to us. 482 00:25:54,727 --> 00:25:57,207 No. No, no, no. 483 00:25:59,340 --> 00:26:02,082 But when we announced who we were and what we were there for, 484 00:26:02,212 --> 00:26:04,780 all of a sudden, he couldn't remember certain things, 485 00:26:04,911 --> 00:26:06,565 and his wife started talking for him. 486 00:26:08,305 --> 00:26:09,611 Yeah. 487 00:26:09,742 --> 00:26:11,570 Yeah, but th-- but that's okay. 488 00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:13,746 We just... We just want to just kind of talk to him 489 00:26:13,876 --> 00:26:16,226 about some of the stuff, and it's nothing, you know... 490 00:26:16,357 --> 00:26:17,576 we're not trying to, like, drill him down 491 00:26:17,706 --> 00:26:19,316 or "What about this? What about this?" 492 00:26:19,447 --> 00:26:20,840 Now, Finn had already told us 493 00:26:20,970 --> 00:26:22,798 Fuhriman's having some problems with his memory. 494 00:26:22,929 --> 00:26:25,235 Early stages of Alzheimer's he'd been diagnosed. Yeah. 495 00:26:25,366 --> 00:26:27,150 Oh, wow. Uh-huh. Okay. 496 00:26:27,281 --> 00:26:29,675 And his wife said that he couldn't run for mayor again... 497 00:26:29,805 --> 00:26:32,982 Right....because his memory is bad and things like that. 498 00:26:44,211 --> 00:26:45,516 Right. Yeah, I know. 499 00:26:45,647 --> 00:26:48,084 Sure. Sure. 500 00:26:52,523 --> 00:26:54,525 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 501 00:26:54,656 --> 00:26:57,572 Now, Fuhriman's the driver, 502 00:26:57,703 --> 00:27:00,880 and I said, "Well, can you drive?" 503 00:27:01,010 --> 00:27:03,230 You know, if you lost your memory, would you remember a stop sign?" 504 00:27:12,326 --> 00:27:14,981 I mean, he... 505 00:27:15,111 --> 00:27:16,460 Yeah. 506 00:27:16,591 --> 00:27:19,159 Yeah. Yeah. 507 00:27:19,289 --> 00:27:23,206 My... My... 508 00:27:23,337 --> 00:27:26,209 Mm-hmm. 509 00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:28,690 Mm-hmm. 510 00:27:28,821 --> 00:27:31,084 Mm-hmm. 511 00:27:31,214 --> 00:27:32,607 Okay. 512 00:27:32,738 --> 00:27:34,609 -Yeah. -Yeah. 513 00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:36,567 His wife's body language clearly changed. 514 00:27:36,698 --> 00:27:38,439 Oh, yeah. Very defensive. 515 00:27:38,569 --> 00:27:40,267 And he was trying to stare through us, so... Yes! 516 00:27:40,397 --> 00:27:42,399 I mean, it was almost like we'd ask him a question, 517 00:27:42,530 --> 00:27:44,488 and he was just, like... Now he's staring straight ahead 518 00:27:44,619 --> 00:27:46,142 as if he's trying to recall. Yes. 519 00:27:46,273 --> 00:27:48,579 His mannerisms, his nonverbals, 520 00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:51,191 all those little indicators changed, like, immediately 521 00:27:51,321 --> 00:27:53,193 as soon as he found out what we were there for. 522 00:27:53,323 --> 00:27:55,499 Well, we... I-I mean, in fairness to him, 523 00:27:55,630 --> 00:27:57,240 the Alzheimer's has been diagnosed. 524 00:27:57,371 --> 00:27:59,286 I-it has. 525 00:27:59,416 --> 00:28:01,201 But he's still sharp enough to know to shut up. 526 00:28:01,331 --> 00:28:02,768 Yeah. 527 00:28:02,898 --> 00:28:05,205 I mean, he was not gonna do himself any favors 528 00:28:05,335 --> 00:28:06,597 by... by talking with you guys. 529 00:28:06,728 --> 00:28:07,686 -Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. -Okay. 530 00:28:07,816 --> 00:28:09,775 Thank you for your time. 531 00:28:09,905 --> 00:28:10,732 We definitely appreciate your time.Yeah. Thank you. 532 00:28:16,956 --> 00:28:18,871 Danny called me. 533 00:28:19,001 --> 00:28:21,612 He's got some very important information to pass to us. 534 00:28:21,743 --> 00:28:23,702 So, I thought what we'd do is reach out, 535 00:28:23,832 --> 00:28:26,487 try to catch him on Skype this morning to see what it is. 536 00:28:26,617 --> 00:28:29,185 Good morning. 537 00:28:29,316 --> 00:28:30,709 What's going on? What's going on, Danny? 538 00:28:30,839 --> 00:28:33,537 So, the prosecutor is in negotiations 539 00:28:33,668 --> 00:28:36,192 with Chris' attorney, 540 00:28:36,323 --> 00:28:38,717 and they are looking to offer him a deal. 541 00:28:38,847 --> 00:28:40,240 What?! Wow! 542 00:28:40,370 --> 00:28:42,198 Basically, he gets out of prison, 543 00:28:42,329 --> 00:28:43,765 which of course for him, that's great, 544 00:28:43,896 --> 00:28:46,420 but the rest of it's really bad news. 545 00:28:46,550 --> 00:28:49,728 He will remain convicted of first-degree murder, 546 00:28:49,858 --> 00:28:52,643 he will remain convicted of rape 547 00:28:52,774 --> 00:28:54,776 and be a registered sex offender, 548 00:28:54,907 --> 00:28:58,780 and have probation anywhere from 7 to 10 years. 549 00:28:58,911 --> 00:29:00,913 So, any offense at all, you know... 550 00:29:01,043 --> 00:29:02,479 Will land him back in. 551 00:29:02,610 --> 00:29:04,394 Exactly. 552 00:29:04,525 --> 00:29:06,222 I mean, he could go back in and do significant time. 553 00:29:06,353 --> 00:29:07,833 It's pretty obvious 554 00:29:07,963 --> 00:29:09,269 that with some of the hearings coming up, 555 00:29:09,399 --> 00:29:11,401 their case is crumbling, 556 00:29:11,532 --> 00:29:13,752 and I think they're trying to avoid additional publicity. 557 00:29:13,882 --> 00:29:15,710 But if he takes this plea, 558 00:29:15,841 --> 00:29:18,800 he's throwing away his chances of any type of civil suit. 559 00:29:18,931 --> 00:29:21,368 Is Chris thinking of taking the deal? 560 00:29:21,498 --> 00:29:23,805 My impression is that John Thomas, the attorney, 561 00:29:23,936 --> 00:29:28,679 is not thrilled about the deal, but Chris wants out of prison. 562 00:29:28,810 --> 00:29:32,248 Although he's hopeful we will find out who the killer is 563 00:29:32,379 --> 00:29:34,773 and get him out of prison, 564 00:29:34,903 --> 00:29:36,775 he has to legitimately say, "But when?" 565 00:29:36,905 --> 00:29:38,298 All right. See you, Danny. 566 00:29:38,428 --> 00:29:40,169 Bye-bye. 567 00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:41,649 That's fucked up. 568 00:29:41,780 --> 00:29:43,607 Yeah, that's... that's a little interesting. 569 00:29:43,738 --> 00:29:45,522 Feels like extortion to me. 570 00:29:45,653 --> 00:29:47,481 If he's on probation, 571 00:29:47,611 --> 00:29:49,570 - he has prison hanging over him at all times. - Oh. 572 00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:51,746 He can't do anything, really. 573 00:29:51,877 --> 00:29:55,619 Having prison hanging over him and being in prison...I agree. 574 00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:58,884 ...I suspect, are two radically different things, so... 575 00:29:59,014 --> 00:30:00,276 Look, people will still look at him 576 00:30:00,407 --> 00:30:01,495 like he's a murderer. 577 00:30:01,625 --> 00:30:03,105 Absolutely. Yep. 578 00:30:03,236 --> 00:30:04,541 You know, he'll... he'll... he'll carry that reputation 579 00:30:04,672 --> 00:30:05,760 for the rest of his life, you know? 580 00:30:05,891 --> 00:30:07,327 Absolutely, Ira. 581 00:30:13,028 --> 00:30:15,509 We've been, uh, pulling some DNA 582 00:30:15,639 --> 00:30:16,858 Mm-hmm. 583 00:30:16,989 --> 00:30:18,904 And we were hoping you could tell us 584 00:30:19,034 --> 00:30:21,689 if these individuals matched the DNA from our suspect. 585 00:30:39,576 --> 00:30:40,926 Not a match. 586 00:30:52,111 --> 00:30:54,548 I'm watching you like you're grading my final exam. 587 00:30:54,678 --> 00:30:55,941 That's what it feels like. 588 00:30:56,071 --> 00:30:57,594 I'm looking for any sign. 589 00:31:05,385 --> 00:31:07,778 Not a match. 590 00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:11,739 Now, just out of curiosity, what exactly are you looking at 591 00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:13,741 when you're... when you're reading those? 592 00:31:13,872 --> 00:31:15,656 So, this is really simple analysis. 593 00:31:15,786 --> 00:31:17,745 I mean, if I were able to show it to you, 594 00:31:17,876 --> 00:31:20,791 it would look kind of like, you know, two bingo cards, 595 00:31:20,922 --> 00:31:23,446 uh, and you're just comparing to see 596 00:31:23,577 --> 00:31:26,493 if those two bingo cards are identical. 597 00:31:26,623 --> 00:31:30,410 And I'm just looking to see if they align. 598 00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:32,325 Just to double-check. 599 00:31:32,455 --> 00:31:33,413 Yeah, not a match. 600 00:31:33,543 --> 00:31:34,980 Okay. 601 00:31:38,026 --> 00:31:40,376 Not a match. 602 00:31:40,507 --> 00:31:42,596 Yeah, might be a tiny bit closer, 603 00:31:42,726 --> 00:31:44,641 but not... not close enough 604 00:31:44,772 --> 00:31:47,035 to be an interesting lead, genetically. 605 00:31:47,166 --> 00:31:49,603 Well, that is disappointing, but, um... 606 00:31:49,733 --> 00:31:51,170 Well, I'll tell you, 607 00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:53,737 you're not the first to try to solve this, 608 00:31:53,868 --> 00:31:57,567 and I think this is gonna be a very tough case to break 609 00:31:57,698 --> 00:31:59,787 because I've seen so many good suspects. 610 00:31:59,918 --> 00:32:01,528 I just learned long ago 611 00:32:01,658 --> 00:32:05,314 that all of the people I thought were good candidates, 612 00:32:05,445 --> 00:32:06,968 nobody's panned out. 613 00:32:07,099 --> 00:32:10,450 So, um, I j-- It's just a complete mystery to me. 614 00:32:19,850 --> 00:32:22,549 The last two weeks have been insane. 615 00:32:28,250 --> 00:32:31,950 The negotiations have been a roller coaster. 616 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,041 It's gone from no deal to there's absolutely a deal, 617 00:32:36,171 --> 00:32:37,781 back to no deal. 618 00:32:40,132 --> 00:32:42,003 The judge is ready to talk to you guys 619 00:32:42,134 --> 00:32:43,700 over in the Centennial Chambers. 620 00:32:43,831 --> 00:32:44,919 Okay, I'll be there in a minute. 621 00:32:45,050 --> 00:32:46,442 Thanks. 622 00:32:53,667 --> 00:32:55,886 Okay, let's shut it down, guys, 623 00:32:56,017 --> 00:32:58,498 and, uh, right before 11:00, okay?Okay. 624 00:32:58,628 --> 00:33:01,370 I want to make sure everybody's over there. 625 00:33:10,771 --> 00:33:13,904 I don't know what to feel. 626 00:33:20,781 --> 00:33:23,566 We have done a complete 360 turnaround 627 00:33:23,697 --> 00:33:25,481 from just days before. 628 00:33:27,483 --> 00:33:28,615 Yeah? 629 00:33:35,056 --> 00:33:37,667 Let me get him in there. 630 00:33:37,798 --> 00:33:39,539 The prosecutor asked me what I wanted, 631 00:33:39,669 --> 00:33:41,671 and I told him, 632 00:33:41,802 --> 00:33:44,022 "Chris doesn't want to be on probation or on parole. 633 00:33:44,152 --> 00:33:45,893 He doesn't want to be a sex offender. 634 00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:48,026 He doesn't want to have to answer to anybody. 635 00:33:48,156 --> 00:33:51,116 He just wants to be done completely." 636 00:33:51,246 --> 00:33:54,597 And the prosecutor said, "Let's do it." 637 00:33:54,728 --> 00:33:58,384 But until the judge has accepted it, it's not a deal. 638 00:34:05,347 --> 00:34:07,654 Will there be any victim-impact statements today? 639 00:34:07,784 --> 00:34:09,351 There will, Your Honor. 640 00:34:09,482 --> 00:34:12,137 We'd like the court to first hear from Carol Dodge. 641 00:34:12,267 --> 00:34:16,184 Okay. Go ahead, Ms. Dodge. 642 00:34:16,315 --> 00:34:18,665 Sitting here today, 643 00:34:18,795 --> 00:34:23,104 a whole flood of memories came back, Chris, 644 00:34:23,235 --> 00:34:26,412 the day that we stood here and chose your jury... 645 00:34:28,979 --> 00:34:32,896 ...the jury that convicted you. 646 00:34:35,769 --> 00:34:38,598 Little did we know what we know now, 647 00:34:38,728 --> 00:34:41,688 and with great sadness... 648 00:34:43,820 --> 00:34:47,781 ...20 years of your life has been taken from you. 649 00:34:47,911 --> 00:34:51,045 I can't imagine that... 650 00:34:52,873 --> 00:34:54,918 ...knowing what we know now, 651 00:34:55,049 --> 00:34:59,706 that anyone can convict someone... 652 00:34:59,836 --> 00:35:02,796 that there's no DNA, 653 00:35:02,926 --> 00:35:05,755 but we've learned a lot, Chris... 654 00:35:05,886 --> 00:35:08,106 a great deal. 655 00:35:08,236 --> 00:35:11,283 I have definitely learned a lot, 656 00:35:11,413 --> 00:35:15,896 and I'm saddened that I don't see 657 00:35:16,026 --> 00:35:19,682 any of the Idaho Falls Police Department here, 658 00:35:19,813 --> 00:35:22,120 representing my daughter, 659 00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:24,992 saying that they'll help me find justice. 660 00:35:25,123 --> 00:35:29,605 I'm so saddened, but I'm extremely, extremely... 661 00:35:31,955 --> 00:35:36,046 ...happy for you that you have your life back. 662 00:35:36,177 --> 00:35:39,572 Although it's not the deal that your mother wanted. 663 00:35:39,702 --> 00:35:41,965 It's not the deal I wanted. 664 00:35:42,096 --> 00:35:46,448 It's a-a cynic saying that for right now, we'll set you free. 665 00:35:46,579 --> 00:35:48,798 Somewhat. 666 00:35:48,929 --> 00:35:52,672 Your new journey is not going to be an easy one, Chris, 667 00:35:52,802 --> 00:35:55,283 but stay clean and stay sober. 668 00:35:56,893 --> 00:35:58,460 Stay on track. 669 00:36:00,158 --> 00:36:02,551 Thank you, Ms. Dodge. 670 00:36:04,292 --> 00:36:07,817 I hereby rule as follows... 671 00:36:07,948 --> 00:36:11,081 the rape charge is hereby dismissed with prejudice, 672 00:36:11,212 --> 00:36:14,041 and the defendant, Mr. Tapp, having been found guilty 673 00:36:14,172 --> 00:36:16,217 of the charge of murder in the first degree, 674 00:36:16,348 --> 00:36:19,699 that the defendant is guilty of that offense. 675 00:36:19,829 --> 00:36:23,006 And his sentence on that offense is amended to 676 00:36:23,137 --> 00:36:25,792 a unified, fixed term of 20 years 677 00:36:25,922 --> 00:36:29,230 plus any additional time that you, Mr. Tapp, 678 00:36:29,361 --> 00:36:32,015 have served up to and including today. 679 00:36:32,146 --> 00:36:35,193 You are receiving credit by order of this court 680 00:36:35,323 --> 00:36:38,239 for all the time served with the intent 681 00:36:38,370 --> 00:36:41,938 that you be released from custody today, 682 00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:46,595 your sentence having been completed or satisfied. 683 00:36:46,726 --> 00:36:49,859 You will be free to go. 684 00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:53,776 Bye, Chris. 685 00:36:55,343 --> 00:36:56,823 Tell 'em, brother! 686 00:36:56,953 --> 00:36:58,607 No, we're good. 687 00:37:50,311 --> 00:37:52,095 You're gonna go all the way out. 688 00:37:52,226 --> 00:37:53,619 Victory! Victory! 689 00:37:53,749 --> 00:37:56,099 Yes! Whoo! 690 00:37:57,927 --> 00:37:59,277 An innocent man is free. 691 00:37:59,407 --> 00:38:01,235 Innocent man! Victory!Freedom! 692 00:38:01,366 --> 00:38:02,236 Freedom!Freedom. 693 00:38:02,367 --> 00:38:04,499 Yes! 694 00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:07,110 We are ecstatic that Chris Tapp is walking free. 695 00:38:07,241 --> 00:38:09,199 Chris Tapp is innocent, 696 00:38:09,330 --> 00:38:13,943 and I will shout that from the rooftops until the day I die. 697 00:38:14,074 --> 00:38:17,817 And for the person, uh, who did kill Angie Dodge, 698 00:38:17,947 --> 00:38:20,776 uh, there's a bounty on your head. 699 00:38:20,907 --> 00:38:23,344 There are 50 cameras here, 700 00:38:23,475 --> 00:38:26,216 and there are people coming for you. 701 00:38:26,347 --> 00:38:27,957 And we are looking for you, 702 00:38:28,088 --> 00:38:30,830 and we will not stop until we find you. 703 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,964 And when we do find you, we will bring you to justice 704 00:38:35,095 --> 00:38:37,315 because that's the right thing to do. 705 00:38:54,244 --> 00:38:57,030 We are sorry. 706 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,293 It's so good to see you. 707 00:38:59,424 --> 00:39:02,165 I never in a million years 708 00:39:02,296 --> 00:39:03,602 thought that this was gonna happen 709 00:39:03,732 --> 00:39:06,039 without actually finding the killer. 710 00:39:06,169 --> 00:39:08,215 Should we go back in? 711 00:39:08,346 --> 00:39:10,348 Yeah. Let me say goodbye to people.Okay. 712 00:39:10,478 --> 00:39:13,046 A lot of people told Chris, "Don't take the deal. 713 00:39:13,176 --> 00:39:14,700 It's a terrible deal." 714 00:39:20,096 --> 00:39:22,621 But Chris said, "John, this is what I want. 715 00:39:22,751 --> 00:39:26,189 This is the safest route to get me out, you know?" 716 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:27,974 And he was having to talk me into it 717 00:39:28,104 --> 00:39:30,019 'cause we're giving something up. 718 00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:32,065 There's still a murder conviction. 719 00:39:32,195 --> 00:39:34,154 So glad to see you, Chris! 720 00:39:34,284 --> 00:39:38,114 But Chris said, "John, how many post-convictions have we filed? 721 00:39:38,245 --> 00:39:40,508 How many times have we been, you know, 722 00:39:40,639 --> 00:39:42,380 u-up to the Supreme Court," 723 00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:44,382 and he's like, "Every time, we've lost. 724 00:39:44,512 --> 00:39:46,253 We've lost, we've lost. 725 00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:49,212 This time, we can walk away. 726 00:39:49,343 --> 00:39:51,563 How you feeling, Chris?Overwhelmed. 727 00:39:51,693 --> 00:39:54,566 For Chris Tapp, the deal that he struck is, 728 00:39:54,696 --> 00:39:58,483 to me, the last shameless manipulation of Tapp 729 00:39:58,613 --> 00:40:00,485 by the criminal justice system. 730 00:40:00,615 --> 00:40:03,313 It is a sad day for justice 731 00:40:03,444 --> 00:40:06,360 because Chris Tapp is a convicted murderer 732 00:40:06,491 --> 00:40:09,581 of a crime he had absolutely nothing to do with, 733 00:40:09,711 --> 00:40:13,193 but Chris Tapp is free today. 734 00:40:13,323 --> 00:40:16,283 And that's what we started out wanting to do. 735 00:40:16,414 --> 00:40:17,980 Let's do the victory, everyone. 736 00:40:18,111 --> 00:40:20,026 Yes! Victory! 737 00:40:20,156 --> 00:40:22,463 And I think the message came across really clear... 738 00:40:22,594 --> 00:40:24,552 he's an innocent man. 739 00:40:24,683 --> 00:40:27,033 I says, "For you to take this deal," 740 00:40:27,163 --> 00:40:29,339 I says, "I don't appreciate it." 741 00:40:29,470 --> 00:40:32,212 I says, "But you know what? I'll take it." 742 00:40:32,342 --> 00:40:34,344 He's home. 743 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,439 Mm! Man! 744 00:40:41,569 --> 00:40:43,179 I've been waiting 20 years for this. 745 00:40:43,310 --> 00:40:46,792 Oh! Oh! 746 00:40:46,922 --> 00:40:48,881 Jer. 747 00:40:49,011 --> 00:40:50,360 How you doing? 748 00:40:50,491 --> 00:40:52,450 I'm scared and frustrated. 749 00:40:52,580 --> 00:40:54,408 Yeah? Overwhelmed, really. 750 00:40:54,539 --> 00:40:55,931 Well, what's your plan? 751 00:40:56,062 --> 00:40:57,585 I'm gonna be around for a few days. 752 00:40:57,716 --> 00:40:59,631 I'd like to be able to just spend some time with you. 753 00:40:59,761 --> 00:41:01,328 I know you're gonna be really busy. 754 00:41:01,459 --> 00:41:02,982 Today's gonna be really bad, 755 00:41:03,112 --> 00:41:04,940 but, like, they're coming over tomorrow night. 756 00:41:05,071 --> 00:41:07,073 Let's get together in th-- tomorrow. 757 00:41:07,203 --> 00:41:10,250 Okay. Your mom and everybody's got my phone number. 758 00:41:21,740 --> 00:41:25,439 We're on our way to pick up Chris Tapp. 759 00:41:25,570 --> 00:41:29,835 Yesterday was the first time I-I seen him in person in 20 years. 760 00:41:33,142 --> 00:41:34,970 I did not visit him in jail. 761 00:41:35,101 --> 00:41:36,929 I was, uh, a little upset with him 762 00:41:37,059 --> 00:41:39,584 for most of his stay in jail. 763 00:41:39,714 --> 00:41:44,545 There was about 17 years, and, yeah, I didn't want to... 764 00:41:44,676 --> 00:41:48,984 didn't want to think about it or accept it at all. 765 00:41:54,555 --> 00:41:56,644 Okay. 766 00:41:56,775 --> 00:41:58,516 I hated Chris so bad. 767 00:41:58,646 --> 00:42:00,518 "How could he name me? What the hell? 768 00:42:00,648 --> 00:42:02,258 I thought we were friends." 769 00:42:02,389 --> 00:42:04,173 It hurt so bad. 770 00:42:04,304 --> 00:42:07,176 I couldn't go anywhere or do anything 771 00:42:07,307 --> 00:42:09,048 without this being a huge part of it, 772 00:42:09,178 --> 00:42:11,093 so I left town, 773 00:42:11,224 --> 00:42:15,445 and i-it's affected me for a long time. 774 00:42:15,576 --> 00:42:19,624 All of a sudden, Judge Heavey comes out 775 00:42:19,754 --> 00:42:22,583 with his Judges for Justice videotapes, 776 00:42:22,714 --> 00:42:25,107 and... and what an eye-opener. 777 00:42:27,370 --> 00:42:29,372 What an eye-opener to see 778 00:42:29,503 --> 00:42:33,072 the way that they were behaving to Chris and... 779 00:42:33,202 --> 00:42:36,249 At that point, I felt so bad for hating him 780 00:42:36,379 --> 00:42:38,251 and... and being so mad, 781 00:42:38,381 --> 00:42:41,471 sitting here watching what he went through. 782 00:42:52,091 --> 00:42:54,397 Hey, Jer. 783 00:42:54,528 --> 00:42:55,921 Uh, I'm lost. 784 00:42:56,051 --> 00:42:57,836 I'm at 816? 785 00:42:57,966 --> 00:43:02,449 I will be standing on the front porch right now. 786 00:43:02,580 --> 00:43:05,408 Aha! We found him. 787 00:43:05,539 --> 00:43:07,672 That's right. 788 00:43:15,375 --> 00:43:17,333 Okay, so... 789 00:43:17,464 --> 00:43:19,509 Hi, buddy. 790 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,382 Are you all right? 791 00:43:22,512 --> 00:43:24,384 Yeah, it's been a while, you know? 792 00:43:24,514 --> 00:43:25,603 How you doing? Good, bro. 793 00:43:25,733 --> 00:43:27,474 Did you sleep? No. 794 00:43:27,605 --> 00:43:29,563 It's kinda hard.Wigged out already. 795 00:43:29,694 --> 00:43:31,130 Yeah. When we went to Kohl's to go shopping, 796 00:43:31,260 --> 00:43:32,392 I already wigged out. 797 00:43:32,522 --> 00:43:33,654 Had my first... Aah? 798 00:43:33,785 --> 00:43:35,308 Aah! And ran out of the store. 799 00:43:35,438 --> 00:43:37,092 Yeah? So, yeah. 800 00:43:37,223 --> 00:43:38,964 It's been... been one of those pieces. 801 00:43:39,094 --> 00:43:41,619 We can do whatever you want to do this afternoon.Yeah. 802 00:43:41,749 --> 00:43:43,533 Yeah, dude.Don't trip on me. 803 00:43:43,664 --> 00:43:45,666 You're free, man. Dude.I know. So... 804 00:43:45,797 --> 00:43:47,537 It's so overwhelming. So much to do. 805 00:43:47,668 --> 00:43:49,496 Yeah? But... 806 00:43:49,627 --> 00:43:51,629 Well, we got years to get through it.That's it. 807 00:43:51,759 --> 00:43:54,501 Let's get out of here. I'm hungry. 808 00:43:57,765 --> 00:44:00,725 Thank you, everybody, for being here today. 809 00:44:00,855 --> 00:44:04,685 In June 1996, 810 00:44:04,816 --> 00:44:07,775 the Dodge family and the city of Idaho Falls... 811 00:44:07,906 --> 00:44:10,212 experienced the death of a young girl named Angie Dodge. 812 00:44:23,835 --> 00:44:27,665 We're very empathetic to the Dodge family... 813 00:44:27,795 --> 00:44:29,579 especially Carol. 814 00:44:31,407 --> 00:44:33,061 For the loss of her daughter, 815 00:44:33,192 --> 00:44:36,630 we continue to look for new ways to identify Angie's killer. 816 00:44:36,761 --> 00:44:39,459 So, today, we're here to introduce a picture 817 00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:41,504 referred to as a DNA phenotype 818 00:44:41,635 --> 00:44:44,725 in hopes of providing the department with new leads. 819 00:44:44,856 --> 00:44:48,686 This DNA phenotype gives a profile 820 00:44:48,816 --> 00:44:51,514 of what the DNA donor could look like, 821 00:44:51,645 --> 00:44:53,473 and then it was age-enhanced 822 00:44:53,603 --> 00:44:57,346 to 20 years later. 823 00:44:57,477 --> 00:44:59,740 Thank you, everybody, for your cooperation of this, 824 00:44:59,871 --> 00:45:01,699 and please, get this out in the public 825 00:45:01,829 --> 00:45:03,613 so that we can receive tips. 826 00:45:06,355 --> 00:45:08,836 Phenotyping has proven to be reliable 827 00:45:08,967 --> 00:45:11,491 in terms of actually getting a suspect. 828 00:45:11,621 --> 00:45:13,667 You know, basically, they're looking at eye color, 829 00:45:13,798 --> 00:45:15,625 hair color, freckling, that type stuff. 830 00:45:15,756 --> 00:45:17,279 This right here is a way 831 00:45:17,410 --> 00:45:18,977 of pointing us in the right direction. 832 00:45:19,107 --> 00:45:20,935 And they won't try to tell you 833 00:45:21,066 --> 00:45:23,329 that it's gonna tell you who the suspect is.Right. 834 00:45:23,459 --> 00:45:25,723 They make that disclaimer right up front, 835 00:45:25,853 --> 00:45:27,420 but what it does is it... it... it at least gives you 836 00:45:27,550 --> 00:45:28,943 a guide path of someone 837 00:45:29,074 --> 00:45:31,293 or, hey, this is what, in all probability, 838 00:45:31,424 --> 00:45:32,817 what your suspect should look like. 839 00:45:32,947 --> 00:45:34,775 Right. It's almost perfect for a cold case... 840 00:45:34,906 --> 00:45:36,777 Oh, yeah. ...where we've got nothing. 841 00:45:36,908 --> 00:45:38,779 So, it gives us something. Yeah. Yeah. 842 00:45:48,049 --> 00:45:51,749 I'm on my way over to Chris Tapp's house. 843 00:45:51,879 --> 00:45:56,536 I want to talk with him about why he felt pressured to confess 844 00:45:56,666 --> 00:46:00,496 and just kind of get a feel for... 845 00:46:00,627 --> 00:46:02,890 what kind of person he is 846 00:46:03,021 --> 00:46:06,285 and if he's 100% innocent. 847 00:46:12,639 --> 00:46:14,423 So, let's go all the way back there. 848 00:46:14,554 --> 00:46:16,251 Were you on drugs during that time? 849 00:46:16,382 --> 00:46:17,905 I was trying to get clean. 850 00:46:18,036 --> 00:46:19,515 I was smoking some weed off and on, here or there, 851 00:46:19,646 --> 00:46:21,387 but methamphetamines and stuff like that, no. 852 00:46:21,517 --> 00:46:23,345 Okay, and they take you directly to the station? 853 00:46:23,476 --> 00:46:24,738 Right.Were you under arrest? 854 00:46:24,869 --> 00:46:26,696 No. They told me I wasn't under arrest. 855 00:46:26,827 --> 00:46:28,524 But were you free to leave? 856 00:46:28,655 --> 00:46:30,831 After they were done with me. 857 00:46:30,962 --> 00:46:32,920 And why didn't you think you were free to leave? 858 00:46:33,051 --> 00:46:35,314 Because you could hear the lock on the door. 859 00:46:35,444 --> 00:46:36,968 So, they locked you in? Yeah. 860 00:46:37,098 --> 00:46:39,492 And so, all the stuff you told them was a lie?Yeah. 861 00:46:39,622 --> 00:46:41,363 Total lie? Yeah. 862 00:46:41,494 --> 00:46:43,061 So, you never cut Angie at all? No. 863 00:46:43,191 --> 00:46:44,802 Ever? I never... Like I said, I never cut Angie. 864 00:46:44,932 --> 00:46:46,281 I never held Angie down. 865 00:46:46,412 --> 00:46:47,761 I've never been to Angie's apartment 866 00:46:47,892 --> 00:46:49,545 till the police department took me there. 867 00:46:49,676 --> 00:46:51,330 You ever stabbed anybody? No. 868 00:46:51,460 --> 00:46:52,548 You ever shot anybody? No. 869 00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:53,767 Ever killed anybody? No. 870 00:46:53,898 --> 00:46:54,724 You had no idea who killed Angie? 871 00:46:54,855 --> 00:46:56,422 None. 872 00:46:56,552 --> 00:46:58,293 So, why would an innocent man 873 00:46:58,424 --> 00:46:59,642 confess to a crime that he didn't do? 874 00:47:01,949 --> 00:47:04,256 'Cause I wanted to go home. 875 00:47:10,088 --> 00:47:12,917 'Cause I kept believing that it was gonna be okay. 876 00:47:13,047 --> 00:47:14,657 I kept believing the words that they would keep telling me, 877 00:47:14,788 --> 00:47:15,963 that it was gonna be all right. 878 00:47:16,094 --> 00:47:18,705 They could help me, and it'd be okay. 879 00:47:18,836 --> 00:47:20,446 You ever wanted to talk to them? 880 00:47:20,576 --> 00:47:22,665 No. Hell, no. Why not? 881 00:47:22,796 --> 00:47:24,624 The Idaho Falls Police Department 882 00:47:24,754 --> 00:47:27,496 will never admit they made a mistake. You hate them? 883 00:47:27,627 --> 00:47:29,629 If they were on fire, you wouldn't piss on them to put them out? 884 00:47:29,759 --> 00:47:31,065 I wouldn't. 885 00:47:31,196 --> 00:47:33,546 I'd just turn my back and walk away. 886 00:47:33,676 --> 00:47:35,461 That's what they did to me. 887 00:47:35,591 --> 00:47:37,115 Wow. 888 00:47:37,245 --> 00:47:39,421 How do you feel about it right now? 889 00:47:39,552 --> 00:47:42,511 What about the pain you're going through? 890 00:47:45,688 --> 00:47:47,516 I see it, too. Y-You got to let it go, man. 891 00:47:47,647 --> 00:47:48,996 You got to... I'm good. 892 00:47:49,127 --> 00:47:50,693 No, but you got to let it out. I'm good. 893 00:47:50,824 --> 00:47:52,695 You're full. Talk to me about it. 894 00:47:52,826 --> 00:47:54,610 It just hurts. 895 00:47:54,741 --> 00:47:57,483 How does an innocent person sit in jail the whole time, 896 00:47:57,613 --> 00:47:59,441 knowing that he's innocent? 897 00:48:01,443 --> 00:48:03,532 Y-You lose yourself in prison. 898 00:48:03,663 --> 00:48:05,578 I lost myself in prison for years. 899 00:48:05,708 --> 00:48:06,971 One of my true friends, 900 00:48:07,101 --> 00:48:08,624 he told me I'm one of the most nicest, 901 00:48:08,755 --> 00:48:09,930 caring persons in the world. 902 00:48:10,061 --> 00:48:12,454 And to a certain degree, I am. 903 00:48:12,585 --> 00:48:17,024 But you do things in prison to survive. 904 00:48:17,155 --> 00:48:21,637 And I know that there's a mean streak in me now. 905 00:48:21,768 --> 00:48:23,726 What do you think about? 906 00:48:25,554 --> 00:48:27,643 Everything you lose. 907 00:48:29,210 --> 00:48:30,951 What'd you lose?I had a father. 908 00:48:31,082 --> 00:48:32,735 I had family. You know what I mean? 909 00:48:32,866 --> 00:48:34,476 At the start of all this, 910 00:48:34,607 --> 00:48:36,391 I had people turn their back on me and my family. 911 00:48:36,522 --> 00:48:38,306 You know, I lost a lot. 912 00:48:45,966 --> 00:48:47,794 For... For the... Ever since I've come home, 913 00:48:47,925 --> 00:48:49,317 I just tell people that I'm good. 914 00:48:49,448 --> 00:48:50,623 You know what I mean? 915 00:48:50,753 --> 00:48:52,625 But you're not. I survive. 916 00:48:52,755 --> 00:48:54,018 You know what I mean? Yeah. 917 00:48:54,148 --> 00:48:57,978 For that, I guess, I'm thankful. 918 00:49:01,329 --> 00:49:04,550 I walked away from there thinking like, 919 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,988 "This guy is the most honest guy I ever met in my life." 920 00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:10,512 I'm sitting there looking at him, 921 00:49:10,643 --> 00:49:12,210 and he's reliving it, 922 00:49:12,340 --> 00:49:15,474 and, you know, watching him tear up, 923 00:49:15,604 --> 00:49:17,824 and this guy just seems so genuine to me. 924 00:49:26,746 --> 00:49:28,661 And all it'd take, really, 925 00:49:28,791 --> 00:49:31,577 is for someone to stop the madness, you know? 926 00:49:31,707 --> 00:49:33,057 Say, "Hey, we made a mistake." 927 00:49:33,187 --> 00:49:34,797 No one's willing to say that. 928 00:49:34,928 --> 00:49:36,886 So, here we are, 21 years later, 929 00:49:37,017 --> 00:49:40,499 trying to find out who killed Angie Dodge. 930 00:49:43,806 --> 00:49:45,895 Police work and the justice system 931 00:49:46,026 --> 00:49:47,680 is not about closing cases. 932 00:49:47,810 --> 00:49:49,682 It's about getting it right 933 00:49:49,812 --> 00:49:54,165 'cause everybody suffers when the wrong person is locked up. 934 00:49:54,295 --> 00:49:57,211 I think you better make dang well sure 935 00:49:57,342 --> 00:49:59,387 that you got the right person, 936 00:49:59,518 --> 00:50:02,564 because let me tell you, they have ruined this family. 937 00:50:02,695 --> 00:50:06,438 But that's okay. 938 00:50:06,568 --> 00:50:07,961 We'll figure it out. 939 00:50:08,092 --> 00:50:09,789 We'll just take it one day at a time, you know, 940 00:50:09,919 --> 00:50:11,791 and just go on and, you know, 941 00:50:11,921 --> 00:50:13,880 it's just like having a kid. 942 00:50:14,011 --> 00:50:16,143 They don't give you a manual when you have a kid. 943 00:50:16,274 --> 00:50:17,927 No. And that's just what we're gonna do, 944 00:50:18,058 --> 00:50:19,451 is start all over again, you know? 945 00:50:19,581 --> 00:50:21,235 You've been gone for 20 years. 946 00:50:21,366 --> 00:50:25,587 They don't give us a manual about when a-a person comes back 947 00:50:25,718 --> 00:50:28,373 out of being incarcerated, you know? 948 00:50:28,503 --> 00:50:30,418 I think there's a book, but don't quote me.No, yeah, well, 949 00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:33,465 we... we better hurry and find it because we're gonna need it. 950 00:50:36,250 --> 00:50:37,730 We're fighters. 951 00:50:37,860 --> 00:50:39,471 We'll bounce back. 71591

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