Original subtitles

**

-My guest today stars in the film

"Shang-Chi and The Legend of the Ten Rings,"

which is almost half a billion dollars in the box office.

That's a big deal.

The movie already has a sequel in the works,

and he won a People's Choice Award

for Action Movie Star of the Year.

And he also received the People's Choice Award nomination

for movie star of 2021.

Please welcome Simu Liu.

What's going on, man?

-Yo, yo. -How are you, sir?

-Man, I'm so good. I'm so happy to be here.

-I'm happy that you're here.

It's a big deal that you're hear.

-It's a huge deal. -I'mma tell you why.

I'mma tell you why it's a big deal.

It's a big deal because you got me cool points in my house.

I never knew what that meant.

I never knew the definition or understanding of it.

But as a father, there's a point where your kids stop

really caring about you and your talent

and they start to care about the talent around you.

And you, Simu, well, you are a household favorite, man.

My kids are Marvel fanatic. My my daughter's 16.

My oldest son is 14.

And they eat, sleep and breathe it.

Of course, my two youngest don't know yet,

but they fell in love with you on a big screen, man.

So when I told them I was having you, my son is actually here.

My son don't come to anything I do.

-Yeah, we took a picture.

-Yeah, he doesn't come the nothing I do, ever.

My son comes to set, he'll chill and disappear.

But yet he's here for you, man.

-That's amazing.

He's a he's a very mature, very poised young man.

-He thinks he's too cool. -And he's taller than you.

-He is, he is. Every once in a while

I punch him in the neck, though.

-Oh, yeah. -I punch him the neck

just to remind him that I'm dad.

The beauty of "Hart to Heart," man,

is not only heartfelt conversations,

but we have the choice to do it over a glass of wine.

I love wine.

I say the same thing through the course of every show.

I feel like great conversations can happen over great wine.

So you do have the choice. Would you like a glass of wine?

-You know, I would I would love to enjoy it with you, Kevin,

but I don't -- I don't drink.

-You don't drink? -Yeah.

-Sounds like I'm having two glasses then.

-You should have -- you should have an extra one for me.

-Pour me one here and pour me another one beside it

because I'm gonna drink that on his behalf.

-That's great. -I'm not gonna drink by myself.

So -- This is my --

-Yeah, yeah. -How are you, Mr. Simu?

Mr. Hart.

Classic Pinot Noir from the Willamette Valley, Oregon.

-Willamette. -Bright, elegant,

being cherry, a little bit of sous bois.

2020 vintage. -Sous bois.

-Hell, yeah, sous bois. -A little bit of sous bois.

-I love that. -What's wine without sous bois?

-I refuse any wine without sous bois.

-You don't drink wine without sous bois.

-Yeah. -It's as bad is what it is.

What is that? Water? -Make me want to have some.

-Boo! Boo! -I know, I know.

-Joking, joking. Cheers.

-Cheers. -This is cheers to you.

-Sorry, this is bad luck. I know.

-No, cheers to you and your success, man.

Congratulations. -Thank you.

-I know the world is just basically flipped upside down

since this movie for you. We're going to get into that.

Plus -- -I got questions.

-Well, yeah. -I have questions.

I need advice. -I have questions.

And I hope -- I hope that I have answers.

Let's let's talk before.

You know, before we get to the business,

before we get to the movies and how, where you from?

-Yeah, that's -- that's a great question.

I was born in China. -Okay.

-And then I immigrated to Canada when I was --

when I was five years old.

My parents actually immigrated when I was a lot younger.

I grew up basically in the care of my grandparents

in in a little city

in the northeast of China called Harbin.

-Okay. -And one day,

so I'm four and a half years old

and live at my grandparents every day.

We're sleeping in the same bed where, you know,

it's like -- it's like a little apartment,

you know, running water, maybe like 75 percent of the day.

-Okay. -No hot water.

You got to boil all your water.

You know, you take a bath. It's like chemistry, you know?

-Cheers. I've been there. I've been there.

-There you go.

And then one day this guy shows up at the door and I'm like,

"Who are you?" And he's like, "I'm your dad,

and I'm here to take you to Canada."

And that's how I found out that I was leaving the country.

-How old were you? -I was four and a half.

-Okay. -So basically I had to --

I had to say goodbye to my grandparents,

who at that point were the only parental figures that I had.

And then join my dad, who at that point was a stranger

because I'd never seen him.

I feel like maybe I'd talk to him on the phone before, but...

But yeah, I went from that

to having to spend every day with this man.

-And what about now Mom at the time?

-So Mom was was still in Canada. -Okay.

-You know, we could only afford the one plane ticket to go back.

And so it was my dad who came back to get me.

-I got you. -And and then I met my mom

at the arrivals terminal at Pearson Airport in Toronto.

-So, from China to Canada, a whirlwind of events.

Your relationship with your grandparents,

I mean, is it one that still exists?

Is it -- did you keep in touch? Did it kind of fall off?

-So my grandparents actually passed earlier this year.

-Oh, wow. -Sorry, sorry last year.

-Sorry to hear that. -No, thank you. Thank you.

But there were, I mean, there are always such a big part

of my life just because those are such formative years,

you know, your first three or four years.

I mean, it's really -- it's how you learn about everything.

And it was like -- so basically I was one of those kids

that like, if I didn't get what I wanted,

like we'd go out, you know, to the street markets and stuff.

And if I didn't get what I wanted, I would just lie down.

I would like lie down on the ground

and I would just like [screams], just scream out

and I throw one of those tantrums.

And so my grandpa was like really fed up,

and he sat me down and he was like,

"Look, I would love to take you out,

but you have to promise me and this is what a promise is,

is that you tell me that you're not going to do something,

and then you have to honor it.

And it was very important to me in that moment

that I -- that I respect that.

-Okay. -And so, you know,

I remember the first time, I like immediately,

you know, it's like we're going to the market.

I immediately see what I want.

It's like some snack or something.

And then I'm like, mm-hmm. And I remember like,

alright, I'm not going to -- I'm not going to say anything.

-I want to keep my promise. -Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-It's one of those life lessons

that you don't realize are strong.

until you get to a certain age and you're like, wow, you know?

My big one was commitment.

My big one was, you know, whatever I commit to,

you have to finish. -Yeah.

-That was my mom's biggest thing with me.

It was, you know, I don't care what you choose to do,

but when you make the choice, you're giving a commitment.

-Yeah. -Finish that.

Don't ever -- don't ever not finish

because that's starting a habit that you won't break.

You become a person that leaves things

incomplete in life as you go.

-It's really about discipline, right?

It's about whether -- it's like learning

what a promise is or the value of commitment.

It's about can you teach somebody to act

against their -- their instinct

or their want and desire in that moment

and remember something that they were bound to

at an earlier point in time

or that they that they agreed to, right?

It's like this idea of like self-control or discipline

or just being able to have the mental fortitude to say,

I'm going to -- I'm going to stick to my guns.

-Are you a person that does well with commitment?

Like, are you a strong-minded person?

Do you feel like the things you put your mind to you finish

or do you feel like you have problems

with starting and completing?

-I feel like I've lived my life as two different people,

and in one version of me,

I am this lackadaisical, slacker kid

who just always did the bare minimum,

like whatever -- whatever it was to pass

or did not get my parents mad at me, to get through

to the next year or school or whatever, get a job.

You know, I went to school for finance and accounting,

and I really just wasn't that kid.

I was -- I was just not engaged.

-What does that mean when you say you went to school

for finance and accounting?

Are you saying that that was the, you know,

were you forced to take that up?

Was that like a family thing that was

here's what you're going to do?

Did you make the choices, not make the choice?

-I feel like I kind of made the choice, right?

So I was -- I was kind of raised in an environment...

First of all, you know, as immigrant parents,

it was the idea of survival and stability.

It was all tied to the ability to provide.

And the kind of key to that, at least for my parents,

was higher education.

So when it kind of came time to apply for schools,

first of all, my science marks are absolute shit.

So that was never going to happen, you know?

So we got that out of the way real fast.

But then I was like, okay, what about --

what about this idea of like business and finance?

Because it's still kind of somewhat prestigious

and still somewhat parentally approved, you know?

But, you know, there's a -- there's a side of that

that's like, oh, maybe, you know, if I'm really

successful at it, I get the -- I get the nice car,

I get the nice suit. -Okay.

-And part of that was appealing to me at least at 18.

So that's what I did, thinking that that's what I truly wanted.

-Was it a thing where your parents

put a certain amount of pressure on you because of their success?

-Constantly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. -Really?

-Absolutely. I mean, for my parents, right?

Like, they -- they made the decision

to leave the country that they grew up in,

that they called home, you know, the language and the culture

that they're familiar with

and they swapped that out for an entirely new environment

where they did not understand the culture,

they did not understand, you know, the language,

and the only thing that really was the through line

through all of that was the education.

-Mm-hmm. -And so it was like, you know,

my dad pursued his Ph.D.

in electrical engineering in Canada,

and that's what allowed him to work as an engineer.

It was -- it's such a myopic view of success

because it was, A, tried and true and B,

yeah, all that they knew in life.

-It's kind of crazy though, because I relate

and understand the side of a parent

saying I gave up what I knew to go try

what I don't know for a better life for you.

I don't want -- I don't want your life to be what mine's was.

So my sacrifice was for your benefit.

-Absolutely. -And if a kid doesn't truly

engage and respond to said sacrifice,

then it's almost coming off as a fuck you to the parents

when ultimately that's not the case.

It's like what you did is right.

You gave me the opportunity to see this other thing,

and look at what I can do now. I can do something and be happy.

-And it's so ironic because they can't even --

-They can't understand it. -They're like, well,

I did this for you, so you can have every opportunity

and I don't want you to be me,

but then they do want you to be them in a way.

They want you succeed on their terms.

-It's a little backwards.

-No, but you're absolutely right.

I can't, you know, you can't knock that.

And, you know, I will say growing up was -- was hard.

Being in that household and dealing with that pressure

every single day was hard.

But -- but now it's -- it's been really interesting

seeing my parents evolve and adapt to the world

that they are now being exposed to in entertainment

and understanding that like an Asian person,

a Chinese Canadian person can affect Western culture

and can be a part of it and can be accepted by it.

-Have you sat down with the parents

and had a conversation of,

I just want to let you guys know that I -- I understand

what you did and I understand what you went through

and I understand what that -- what that did for me.

And I wouldn't be here today... -Absolutely.

You did have that? -Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-What was their -- what was their response to that?

-Well, it was it was mixed, right?

Because I had a lot, I mean, I had to do a lot

in this conversation. I had to let them know

how grateful I was for the sacrifices.

I had to know that I understood the choice that they made

and all that they overcame to come here.

But, you know, I also needed them to know

that they were quite shitty at times, right?

That there are moments where, you know,

it's like when they're telling me

that I was the worst thing that ever happened to them that like,

you know... -It stuck.

-...that stuck, and it's very hard for me

to undo that mental baggage

and to kind of just forget

that those scars exist, you know?

-How long have you felt like you wore those scars?

Like how long -- how long were were they suppressed?

Like, were there things that you've ever voiced

or blurted out before, you felt like you kept on

the wraps until the point where you...?

-Well, yeah. I think in the beginning

it was all very like, you know, shouting matches

and, you know, things got physical

and all of those things that happened in a --

in a household where like you got two generations

that fundamentally just don't understand each other

and don't understand each other's way of life.

It's just clashing and butting heads all the time.

So it was like, fuck you, fuck you, you know?

Get out of the house, get out. You're out, you know?

-Tempers are flaring. -Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

And and I think I wore that with me,

you know, throughout my college years.

I feel like college was good because I moved away.

It created some space and separation,

And I got the job out of graduation.

-Where you go to college? -I went to college

at the University of Western Ontario.

-Okay, Alright. -In London, Ontario.

-That's what I was gonna say. That's the good London.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah. -[ Laughs ]

-Alright. So in London, Ontario, you're going to college now.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm still, by the way,

I'm still that version of myself.

-I was going to say you're still following --

-Is slacker that's still like, yeah.

I mean, I was like, my average was coming up short

and I was like, begging.

I was like begging the departments

to let me stay in school.

And my parents didn't know any of this, of course.

They just knew that at the end of it,

I somehow managed to swindle

my way into a job offer.

-Wow. -And so I worked --

I got a job offer at Deloitte,

was one of the big four accounting firms.

-Accounting. I was gonna say it's accounting.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah. -Okay.

So I'm guessing getting that the accounting job didn't last.

-No, no. I was -- I was fired about eight

and a half or nine months in.

-Wow. -Yeah.

-Parents know? -Not -- not initially.

Not initially. -How long you hide it?

-I managed to hide it until actually

I had a commercial that was about

to come out nationally.

And if I didn't tell them, then they were going to turn

on the TV one day and see their son on the phone

selling some small business cellphone plans.

-So -- so let's -- let's transition then.

-Yeah. -Okay, I mean, the conversation

has gone, as a matter of fact.

Before we do that, let's take a break.

That's right. Let's take a break.

We've got more heavy conversation,

more understanding, more truth

when we come back with more "Hart to Heart" after this.

**

**

-We are back, guys. We're back.

And I'm still here with Simu Liu,

and I want to go deeper right now, right?

Somehow you make the decision to transition

into the world of entertainment, the world of acting.

Right? Of course, this is no easy transition.

I mean, goodness gracious,

you were in school in London, Ontario.

-Yeah, what the fuck was I thinking?

Why would I?

-I don't know how or what,

but how where does it -- where does it happen?

How do the will start spinning?

-Yeah. -And and how do you say fuck it,

this is the road that I'm now going down?

-Yeah, I think it's a very -- I mean, I have no idea

why the idea of -- of being an entertainer

has always kind of stuck in my brain,

especially, like, I wasn't the theater geek as a kid.

You know, I wasn't, like, constantly

looking for ways to be in front of people.

I wasn't constantly trying to tell jokes, make people laugh.

Like, I definitely wanted to be cool, I wanted to be accepted.

And I feel like probably a part of me, you know,

saw the respect

and the adulation that celebrities and,

you know, those types of people got and was like, "I want that."

-If you don't mind me asking, at the time,

who are you watching? Like, who -- who was it

that -- that caught your eye and it made you feel like,

oh, my God, I want that. I want to feel that.

-Oh, man.

When I was -- when I was in sixth grade,

I had a crush on a girl.

Her name was Jackie, and all the guys in the class

Like Jackie, but Jackie like Thomas.

Thomas was this, you know, he was like --

he was his blond,

he kind of was like a Aaron Carter lookalike...

-Son of a bitch. -...with frosted tips.

-Mother... -Yeah, I know.

I didn't stand a chance, though.

I was like this, you know, dorky Asian kid.

My parents never, like, gave me a talk,

never taught me how to talk to women.

We didn't have those conversations.

I mean, those -- I mean, literally,

we didn't have any conversation apart

from why aren't you studying harder?

What are you doing with your life?

You know, stuff like that.

-Girls wasn't even the topic. -Exactly, exactly.

So, I mean, I just came in and I had no idea how to do anything.

And then on top of that, as an Asian -- as an Asian boy,

I feel like, you know, everything you're consuming

in the media is telling you that you're one thing, right?

Like you're a dorky kid,

and you're you're just kind of like,

don't see a way for you...

-Not seeing the opposite or hearing the opposite.

-Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

But Jackie was a big NSYNC fan.

So Jackie was all about JC Chasez,

Justin Timberlake. -Yes, Justin Timberlake.

-So I was like, you know, I was watching, you know,

would watch their music videos

and would buy all their CDs, too.

And be like, I just. [indistinct]

-Used to dance. -Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-You could dance? -Yeah, well, I had to.

I taught, you know, I taught myself that.

-That was your in. -That was what I was doing.

-You were that went up to girls like,

"Hey, what's up?" -Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-Yeah, yeah. [ Laughs ]

-What I didn't realize that I probably should have realized,

and you probably know, is that having a solid sense of humor

and self-awareness and like... -Is the best.

-...that -- that beats anything.

But I thought at the time I was like, great dancing,

good luck, six pack or whatever. I mean...

-Were you the guy that come comes up and flip?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You go up and you're like --

-"Hey, how you doing, Jackie?" And just somersault.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah. -"Hey, I'm going to say

good morning," and then just walk off.

-Yeah, exactly. -Those guys.

-Yeah. Nobody likes those guys. -No, nobody likes those guys.

Humor beats those guys every day.

-Right. right. -Every day of the week.

Every day. -I was that guy until I was,

like, 25 years old, you know?

So I'm a late bloomer.

-You're late. You're a late bloomer.

But I love the honesty about it. I love the honesty about it.

So you're now -- you now make

the decision, we're going to pursue,

we're going to follow acting.

But where do you go? What's the road?

I still understand how you figured out a road to take.

Like it's not as if you're in the environment

where there's this revolving door

of people that's getting opportunity.

-It's not "La-La Land." -No.

So, where do you find the first opportunity,

or what -- what was the opportunity that made you go,

oh, okay, this -- this can work? -Yeah, yeah.

-There's a possibility of me doing this?

-I went on Craigslist. -Okay.

-I went on Craigslist and I literally searched acting gigs,

and I found myself on the set...

Because once in a while, you know, when you're doing

like a big movie, they're -- they cast for extras, right?

And so this movie, "Pacific Rim,"

happened to have a scene that was set in Hong Kong.

-Okay. -And so they needed, like,

hundreds of like Asian extras to play Chinese people.

And so I responded to the -- to the ad,

and either I was, I don't know,

either I was going to be in a softcore porno

and they just went -- or it was going to be the real deal.

But I showed up, it was Pinewood Studios in Toronto

and it was like the real thing.

And all of a sudden I'm thrust on set, and it's like

Guillermo del Toro, you know, it's like

Idris Elba is on set, Charlie Day is on set.

-So you get there, you're on set, you're an extra.

-And it's the most incredible environment

that you've ever seen.

You know, it's like the cameras, the people moving around.

It's like when you're on those like $100, $150 million movies,

they're like hundreds of people on set.

Everyone has their own role, has their own purpose,

and everyone is just coexisting and gelling.

And every -- everything is active and moving.

And we're in this like, you know,

people have built this entire Hong Kong neighborhood

that has been just leveled by a nuclear bomb.

And it just looks like the coolest fucking thing

I've ever seen in my life, and I'm like, I don't know.

I don't know what I'm doing with the rest of my life,

but I got to -- I got to get back here.

-I got to do this. -Yeah.

-I got to do this. -Yeah, yeah.

-The inlet. -The inlet, exactly.

-You saw -- You saw and,

oh, my God, this is it.

This is what I'm supposed to do.

-Do you remember what that moment was for you?

-Absolutely. I went on stage at an amateur night

and the bright light was in my face,

and I heard people laugh.

Wasn't the biggest laugh. I heard people laugh.

I heard -- I said a joke, and I heard people go [laughs].

And I said I don't ever --

I don't never not want to hear that again.

-Yeah. -That, oh, my God.

I sat up straight, my -- my attention was different.

I got a little more animated.

-That first little crumb of validation.

It was like, you can -- you can do this.

-It was everything. -Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-Guys, we're gonna take another break.

We got more "Hart to Heart" when we get back after this.

**

**

-We're back, guys.

We're back, And I'm still here with Simu Liu.

I'm hearing that there was a moment where, you know,

the job world view got a little tough.

And you were -- you were like a Spider-Man

at kids parties for a little while, right?

-Yeah. -You were doing Spider-Man work,

showing up at the parties, being Spider-Man.

-For sure, yeah. -75 bucks an hour.

-Kids fucking with you, doing whatever, right?

-100 percent, yeah, yeah. -At the time,

A Marvel fan or not? -Yeah, yeah.

-Yeah? -Big, big, superhero.

I mean -- I mean, you know, my -- my vision board

in the very beginning of, like, imaginary vision board,

but my -- my goal at the very beginning was like,

oh, I want to -- I would love to be a superhero.

-Okay. -That was the -- I didn't think

it would I mean, not like that, but that was a way to

because I had gotten laid off from the job.

I'd also made the decision to,

like, give this acting thing a go.

But yeah, I just didn't have the capital.

-So, what's the word on the tweet?

Like, there's a -- there's a tweet that exists...

-Yeah, yeah, yeah. -...of you kind of --

of foreshadowing the world of you being in Marvel.

-Right. -And is this real or is it...?

-No, it's real, it's real. I remember, you know,

at one point I think it was like 2014 or 2015.

I tweeted -- I tweeted like, "Hey, @Marvel,

great job with Captain American and Thor.

Two -- two white guys. How about an Asian superhero?

How about an Asian American superhero is actually

what I -- what I said. -Fucking around.

-Yeah, fucking around, nobody ever --

and nobody ever saw it.

I forgot about it.

And then, you know, yeah, fast-forward --

fast-forward five years and I'm, you know, I get cast,

I get marched out in front of Comic-Con

and then somebody is like,

"Do you remember that you tweeted this?"

-That's not a little surreal to you.

-It's crazy, yeah.

The power of, like, manifestation

and the power of, yeah. -Of just saying something...

-Yeah. -And then -- and then

becoming the guy. -Yeah.

-Becoming the guy.

What's the feeling of conversation with being a guy

who's the first to become, the first ever?

Oh, my God, The first ever to cover a magazine?

-Oh, my God. -The first to step

on the stage and take the trophy?

Like, what is that now?

-It is honestly so constant, that when I was

on "SNL" in November, we made a skit

making fun of it where we just started

being like first person to ride

a fucking dragon, first person to play, you know?

You know, like we just started throwing it around

because it is, it happens all the time.

It's not the first time I found myself in that conversation,

because before I did the Marvel thing,

I was on -- I was on a sitcom called "Kim's Convenience."

We did -- we did comedy for like five years,

and at the time, too,

that was like the groundbreaking thing with, you know,

an all-Asian cast and barriers were being broken and all that.

And I think it's easy to get cynical

when -- when this stuff happens

and you're answering these questions

for like the 500th time and all that.

But -- but I just I think back to, you know,

when I was first starting out,

the world that I believed was available to me, right?

I was an extra, and I would look at the the only other Asian guys

that I saw were the stunt guys.

And because those are the only ones

that could really have a future,

because if you were an Asian actor

and you didn't know martial arts,

well, then hell, you're playing --

you're playing geek number three.

You're playing at best, at best, a best friend

of some main character.

You know, it was unfathomable that we could actually

have a story that was -- that was about being Asian

in a place like America or Canada.

It just wasn't even on the -- on the, you know, on the horizon.

So when I first got in, I was, you know, I -- I didn't, I mean,

I didn't actually think I was going to be a superhero.

I just thought, oh, maybe I'll just fuck around

and maybe I'll be a stuntman or something,

but I would just be happy as long as there's

a camera around and we're on the set.

-So now, as we're now seeing major progress,

we're seeing major progress.

And we're not only talking about being the stars

of these crazy box office vehicles, but we're talking --

-You're talking about being the master of that narrative

of not just being a face in front of a screen that...

You know, I'm a huge Jackie Chan fan, massive Jet Li fan.

Like, those are the guys that I watch growing up, right.

But when you look at those movies, the "Rush Hours"

and the "Shanghai Noons" and the, you know,

the "Cradle 2 the Grave," which I loved by the way.

It was Jet Li and DMX.

-And until this day, I still don't understand it.

-It's Black and Asian solidarity.

-It's the best casting,

it's the worst best chemistry I've ever seen,

and that's the best way to describe it.

-But I mean, those were movies that were dreamt up

by non-Asian people, and they -- and they put Jackie

and they put Jet in that movie to be the foreigner,

to be the other guy that didn't speak English,

that would come in and maybe provide comic relief

or just be the guy that didn't understand

or didn't speak the language.

And there's something different.

There is something shifting now.

-Absolutely. -First of all, you know, we have

Asian-American filmmakers that can speak to,

specifically, the type of upbringing that I had

or the life -- the life that I led.

You know, all of the things that come with that,

whether it's the parental pressure

or, you know, the idea of like being Asian in a society

that doesn't believe that Asian people

are a part of it, you know, stuff like that.

-Well, I think is more -- I think more now

what we're realizing today is that there's a want

for the real side of information, right?

There's a want for the real side of heritage,

for the real understanding of family and value within it.

There's a real one, right?

Because we lived off of the stereotype.

We lived off of the hypothetical.

We lived off of what we thought we knew for so long,

and we've made promises, movies, TV based off of that.

But I feel like now there's a want and need,

a desire for the truth.

-And I love you talking about being an active participant

in that career. I mean -- I mean,

obviously I knew that because you run

a very successful production company.

You like, you know -- You know, it's funny

because it starts from a dream that's so simple,

which is I want to make people laugh, but then it builds.

And I mean, I see the process through which you've evolved

from standup comedian to like, you know, producer to mogul,

dare I say? -Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

-I mean, I would want to know

what -- what is the thinking behind that?

Who trained you in business, in show business?

Where, you know, where did that mentorship come from?

I mean, as grateful as I am to be the Marvel guy,

I also want to be the guy that's in charge of

I want to tell this story, I want to play this character.

-I have a service to do, which is answer that question,

but let's do when we come back.

Guys, we're gonna take another break.

We got more "Hart to Heart" when get back after this.

**

**

-We are back, guys,

and what an amazing conversation to come back to.

I'm still here with Simu Liu.

And, you know, your question was just about just me

and the the -- the now, right.

The building of this, let's just call it

knock on wood, "empire."

The creating behind the ecosystem

and just seeing how you can connect certain dots.

For me, I think the real American dream

is the dream that doesn't have an ending to it, right?

Because after you succeed,

well, some people stop and go, wow, I did it.

And then some people go, okay, well, I can do some more.

-Yeah. -I've been to do some more guy

for a long time,

and I think for me as I get older,

it's just making sure that I don't lose a drive,

that I don't -- that I don't lose energy

to get up in the morning and do.

-And -- and I love that you continually,

I mean, you're continually challenging yourself.

Like, your last few films that you did really skewed serious,

really dramatic work that you were incredible in.

-Trying to switch it up... -Yeah.

-...find that excitement.

For you, I mean, look, let's -- let's talk.

You want to talk about now work.

We're talking about the one.

You -- you shot out, you did earlier work.

The Marvel side came in, oh, my God,

that's bigger work with talks of a sequel now.

You're in that machine.

Is that machine what you thought it would be?

Or that machine come with some, oh, God, holy shit?

Like, where -- what's the mindset of you

to Marvel, in a respectful way?

I don't want you to get yourself in trouble here,

but what's the mind of you now in Marvel?

Oh, my God, success. How long am I in this?

What do I want outside of this is as well?

-Absolutely. -Are you thinking that way now?

-Yes, absolutely. I think from day one, you know,

first of all, I mean -- I mean, one call from Kevin Feige.

He changed my life forever. -Okay.

-I mean, you could -- there are a million

different first chances that you could get,

whether it's like a network pilot or like,

you know, some indie movie that you do.

It didn't have to be Marvel.

-No, this is "the". -But this is the gold standard.

-You got "the" first chance. -It's like, holy shit, you know,

imagine that being your first -- first movie?

So, I mean, I was -- I wanted to be very proactive off the bat.

You know, I went to business school

and even though I didn't pay attention for like

98 percent of it, I still retained

enough of the knowledge to be like,

great, to be stagnant is death, right?

You have to kind of find a way to take ownership,

and I think Marvel was fantastic in getting me that platform.

And I truthfully, truthfully, I have nothing

but fantastic things to say because they've been wonderful.

What I will say is nobody prepares you to be famous.

-No. -There's no class.

And try, as someone might, to design that class,

if they haven't been through it themselves,

they have no fucking idea what all of that life entails,

what it means to lose the ability

to have just a person-to-person conversation out on the street.

Because now when you step out...

-It's different. -...It's different.

People see you, but they don't really see you.

They see... -You're -- you're the thing.

You become -- you become a version of that.

And you know what? I say this all the time.

I mean, rightfully so, right?

There's a gift and a curse attached to anything great.

There's so much that goes with that,

so when you say you're not prepared

or nobody can prepare you, you're absolutely right.

And the crazy part is it's just the beginning of it for you.

-[ Laughs ] -This is the crazy part.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah, -Like, if you -- if we were

talking to the untalented guy,

well, then it's different.

If we're talking to the guy here that's not charismatic,

we're talking to a guy here that can't hold the conversation

or the guy that I'm pulling teeth from

during the course of an interview,

well, this is different.

It's was going to be a short role for you, but good luck.

But we're not talking to that guy.

Like, we're talking to a guy that wants more.

And the more you want, well, the more success

and the more fame that comes with that.

So, you know, what is your attitude towards more fame,

towards more success?

-I mean -- I mean, I feel like I still retain

so much of what my parents put in me,

the need to create stability, right?

And to me, whether it's fame...

I mean, I don't want to say fame necessarily,

but I mean, to a degree that's that's necessary in this system.

It's necessary to be like who, you know,

who are the people that could greenlight a project, you know,

and am I going to be waiting forever

or, you know -- you know,

waiting forever for the right opportunity to come?

Or am I going to be the type of person who can take ownership

and to participate in the projects

that he wants on his terms?

So that's always been what I want.

And it feels like, at least right now,

that -- that -- that this idea of fame

is tied in with this idea of success.

-You have to do that at the same time.

See, people fuck up because people wait, right?

People wait until they're done the hot run to go,

okay, now I want to try this.

But if you figure out a way to do it at the same time,

alright, I'm rolling. We're developing part two.

While we're developing part two,

I'm going to start to sit with some people that I met.

I want to develop a thing that I want to do.

Hopefully by the time we're done shooting part two,

while we're in pre-production for part two,

I want to take the meetings with the talent,

with the personnel producers that I had the access to

because of what I'm doing for part two,

they're going to sit down with me.

Because of that access. they're going to not

only take the meetings, they're going

to give me the time and attention.

I can secure these deals, secured these things

so that as soon as this is wrapped up,

I'm right into the next thing. -Hell yeah.

-I've always been before project,

in the middle of a project,

at the end of the project, start a new project.

-Hell yeah. -I never wait.

So I've -- I've always kept that train moving.

Now granted, the gift and the curse comes with,

well, you're working all the fucking time

and you look up and you ain't taking time

to really access what's going on or love the ones properly --

-To be a human being. -Yeah.

That's a -- that's a battle that I still have with myself.

-I understand. -That I'm still going through,

but for that thing that you're talking about,

you have to access those relationships

while they're accessible.

Don't wait till they're not there,

because then those relationships go away.

-Yeah. -That door is shut.

When that door shut, you're gonna look back like

what the fuck?

I was just the guy.

-I've seen it happen. -I was just the guy.

I was just on the poster.

They said, we're not doing part three,

so what are we doing?

-But the world is fast. The world is fast.

You can have a moment, but it's a --

without anything to follow it up,

it's a flash in the pan. -Take advantage.

-And then they're on to "Squid Game."

They're on to whatever the next thing is, you know?

-Guys, we're gonna take another break.

We got more "Hart to Heart" when we get back after this.

**

**

-We're back, guys. We're back.

And I'm still here with Simu Liu.

And there's so much excitement

that I see in you, just as we're talking.

Like, you got this -- there's a --

there's a dope ass energy that you have.

That energy just should just go into

the other things that you want to do, too.

-Yeah. -And that's the beauty of it.

Like, when you when you get that energy

in that other thing you want to do,

it's very hard for mother fuckers to tell no

when it's good shit.

Nine times out of 10, if you got

a good piece of energy into the thing

that you want to do that's different,

that showcases your talent in a different way...

-Mm-hmm. -...it's kind of hard to say no.

True story was me saying, I kind of want to kill somebody.

That's how simple it was.

It wasn't well thought out. -[ Laughs ]

I just want to kill somebody. How do I do it?

How can I do it and make people believe it?

-Hell yeah. -I love "Narcos."

I want to meet with the guy that developed "Narcos."

That's it. Had access to the guy.

-Yeah. So for you, I would say,

where does that side of ideas start,

and how do you -- how do you truly amplify.

your world of creativity while you're in the best,

while you're in the best engine

to back and support you as a talent?

Because you're going to be in that for another

two and a half, three years. -Oh, man.

-You got to shoot the movie,

then the movie's got to come out.

I mean, that movie's not a short movie to shoot.

How long it take you guys to shoot the first one?

-Man, we were in Sydney for a year...

because we shut down in the middle, right?

We shut down for four months.

It was originally just like a seven,

seven and a half month shoot,

but then one day you show up to work

and the AD comes through and it's like

we're pulling the plug.

See you, we don't know.

-Jesus. -Yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, yeah, they take a while. They take a while.

-That's -- that's insane. That's insane.

I don't know what I would say.

Somebody asked me to go shoot a movie

for seven and half months, first I'm probably going

to say, go fuck yourself.

There's no way I can do it. -[ Laughs ]

-For a Marvel movie? For you kids?

-You know what, man?

I -- I've had this conversation.

My kids are a fan of Marvel.

Uh-huh. -I just know that I couldn't --

I know that I can't give that type of time.

I got -- there's so much that I got going on.

-I got you. -A movie pass

the three-month time for me is a lot.

-For sure. -Is a lot, but,

you know, who knows?

I mean, those numbers get to making sense in the front

and the back end, you know, I don't know.

And I don't know -- I don't know if there's a costume to fit me.

-Pay me.

-Yeah, I don't know if a costume...

-Pay me, pay me. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

-How are you with money?

-How am I with money? -Yes, how are you with money?

-Well, I was -- I was a failed account.

So, I mean, you could take that

to mean that I'm great with money or you could take that

to mean I'm absolutely fucking shit with money.

-It could go either way.

-Yeah, it could really go either way.

-People like oh, like, when I tell them I used

to be an account, they're like, "Oh, you want to do my taxes?"

I'm like, "I was fired. I was fired eight months."

Like, they didn't even let me take my exam.

-Let me finish the sentence.

-Yeah, let me finish the sentence first

before you jump on it.

I feel like I'm alright.

My parents were -- my parents were petrified of debt.

-Okay. -Petrified, like paid off

their house in three years,

like literally, like, bought their first house

and then just didn't furnish it.

-Yeah. -Because they were so --

They were like maxed out every single mortgage payment

until we pay this thing off because the idea of owing money

was just so foreign and uncomfortable to them.

So, you know...

-And all that falls back into what we were just talking about,

about finding ways to become the business

in the business. -Yeah, yeah.

-Finding ways to get other

financial revenue streams in the business.

-Yeah. No, those four months that -- that we took off

ended up being great for me because I wrote a book

in that time, we're publishing this year finally.

-Congratulations. -Thank you.

-What's the book called? -It's called "We Were Dreamers."

-Okay. -You know, "We Were Dreamers:

An Immigrant Superhero Origin Story."

So it tells the story of kind of what I -- what I

was telling you about my parents.

It goes maybe back into into their lives, you know,

growing up in China and making the decision

to pursue a higher -- higher education

in a totally different environment,

you know, making the decision to put it all on the line

and risk everything in search of some sort of dream that,

you know, frankly, they didn't even fully understand,

because what did they know

about America or, you know, Canada?

At the time, it was just an idea.

There's this idea that, like, something is out there

and I just want to take the ship and go and see where I end up.

-There's a gift in every curse. -Yeah, absolutely.

-There's a gift in every curse.

The curse of what came off as bad parenting

from time to time,

the curse of struggle to you as a young boy.

Of course, living the life that you lived,

when you look back at it now, those things are necessary.

Those moments were absolutely necessary.

And just like this break, this break is necessary.

Guys, we'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" after this.

**

**

-We are back.

Still getting into it, man. Such a great conversation.

I got to ask you this, I have yet to ask you.

I heard that with the -- with the movie,

you did not know any type of martial arts.

I heard that martial arts was not in your background.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah. -That you had to learn it

for the movie, and that you did like 70,

80 percent of the stunts for the movie.

-I'll be honest with you. -Okay.

-Can I be honest with you? -You --

-It's "Hart to Heart." You better be honest with me.

It is "Hart to Heart." That's true, that's true.

I down-- I purposefully downplay

how much martial arts I knew. -Okay.

Because I am afraid of that narrative

of like the martial arts guy,

they cast the martial arts guy to do the martial arts.

He's Asian, of course. You know?

I -- I want to challenge people to see me as an artist

at the same way that Ryan Gosling

picked up jazz piano for "La-La Land."

That is the way that I picked up martial arts for this movie.

It is not because martial arts is all I do.

That's not because martial arts is all Asian people do,

and that's all they're good for.

And when you, you know, when you see

an Asian person on screen, they better

be doing martial arts, it's not that.

But this was a character.

And so I did the training that was necessary.

I stepped up and I mean, sure, yeah.

Before I mean, of course, hell yeah I did martial arts.

You know, I took the stunt training.

I was in class, I was doing gymnastics and parkour

and trying to be, you know,

especially when you're when you're struggling in Toronto,

Ontario, Canada, and trying to make a living in showbiz,

you're like booking one or two television spots a year.

-If that. -If that.

You got maybe one national commercial.

And by the way, the Canadian commercials don't pay

the way that the American ones do, right?

Canadian national commercial

would give you like four or five grand

at the end of the day. That's not a good take home.

-I love what you said, though, man.

I love what you said, which is that, you know,

you're -- there's -- a there's a want and goal.

And when you talk about breaking down stereotypes,

you have to actually be a -- a -- an action item.

-Mm-hmm. -I love that message,

and that's the beauty of this show.

The beauty of this show is that you can

give that, you can speak like that

and people can see you in an honest --

a honest setting, being your true self.

-I feel my heart, and I feel your heart.

-"Hart to Heart" -I feel us doing this.

-That's what it is. -That's it.

That's the beauty of the set.

-[ Laughs ] -One more.

I've got to ask you about "SNL."

You did "SNL." -Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-Talk about hosting "SNL." -Holy shit, man.

That was, I mean, that was -- that was like the pinnacle.

It was like, for me, it's -- it's -- it's "SNL."

It's like the Oscars, it's "SNL,"

Marvel superhero, what else?

Celebrity All-Star Game. -Celebrity All-Star Game.

-Celebrity All-Star Game. -Celebrity All-Star Game, NBA.

Yeah, Yeah, that's got to happen in like the next year or so.

-It's a big deal. I guarantee it happens this year.

But "SNL?" -Oh, my God. Crazy, crazy.

To be -- to be on that stage, first of all,

I got in a week early because I was like,

if I do not see the stage before I go,

I'm going to psych myself out. I got to watch the show.

So I watched -- I watched Jonathan Majors

and Taylor Swift, which was incredible,

just absolutely insane.

-You just sat in the crowd and...?

-Yeah, yeah. It just was anonymous

and just watched it all happen.

-How did you feel about the process?

Going in the office, everybody pitching to you,

everybody coming up with ideas?

-You know, it felt like -- it felt, to be honest,

it felt like they were like kind of taking me by the hand

and being like, because, you know,

for, like, somebody who they don't know,

I feel like they just they don't know

how much they can trust you, right?

So they like, do enough to be like,

oh, we're including you in the process,

but really like you'll pitch an idea and be like,

Oh, that was great. So anyway, what I was saying,

like, we're going to do this other thing.

Yeah. -Cool, cool, cool, cool.

-Thanks, that's really cool. But what I want to show you.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What I -- what I appreciated, though, was -- was how --

how much they actually open the door and like, you know,

by Friday I was working, like, I did a 16 hour day, right,

doing the pre-tapes and then...

You know, it's like you go from one pre-tape

to doing the full kind of on stage tech rehearsal

and then you go and you do another pre-tape

and you wrap it to 2:00 A.M. and you're just

so shit tired at the end of it.

You're not concerned anymore about, you know,

there's no room for you to get in your head.

And I really appreciated that.

-I love -- I love the process. -Yeah.

-You know, the world may or may not know the actual process

or work that a lot of those are,

you know, guys and women are doing behind the scenes

to make that thing go, especially the creative,

the writers and the pitching, the cast.

Like there's a lot of work. They work long hours, man,

during the season of that show, and the talent that comes in,

you know, they they try to best to put on for that talent.

As a person has been on there a lot, yeah, I take my hat off

to them every single time. It's dope, though.

It's dope that I think that you got

the opportunity to step on that stage.

I love that it all lined up. It just seemed to line up

perfectly for you throughout the duration.

And they're still going, man. It's a big deal.

-Thank you, thank you. It's a lot of --

it's a lot of runway for one movie.

It's not lost on me. I'm, like, thinking all the time.

I'm like, oh, shit.

Like, are people like, do people think that I deserve this?

Because I don't know. I don't even know that I deserve this.

You know what I mean? It's crazy.

-You do. -Before I know it, I'm on --

Yeah, I'm like on stage, the music is playing,

they're like forcing you out on stage,

and then it's like you say your monologue,

you get -- you get led by the hand backstage, it's nuts.

-Well, don't think for a second that you do not deserve it.

You are an example of what the American dream is, man.

You know, look at where you come from.

You're talking about going from China to then going to Canada,

and then at Canada, somehow finding your way into college

and pursuing what isn't your dream

but what you think your parents want you to do

and not being successful in it.

You get a job, you get fired.

After getting fired, you take some shots in the dark.

There's some things you're doing to make money,

but the shots in the dark show you a glimpse of light.

And that light becomes the biggest, brightest light

that turns into a star.

And I'm telling you now, man, there's people

all over the globe,

all over the globe that look to people like you,

that look at people like me

that are not supposed to be in the positions

that they are because of the way that it's written.

There's a -- there's a certain trajectory

that that's supposed to be followed

to get to said levels of success.

And when you're a groundbreaker and you do it in

an untraditional manner, man, you're the example of what can.

So don't think that you're not a driving force

for that young generation of young Asian kids

that are looking and going, oh, my God, I want or I need,

and I can act or I can sing.

And it's not just martial arts, because you are.

So the things that you said here I think are powerful,

I think are needed.

I want to thank you again, man, for coming on.

What an amazing episode, informative.

I think people are going to walk away with a different

understanding of who you are, what you want

and why you deserve it.

Thank you so much once again, man.

-Oh, man.

What a pleasure. -Thank you.

-* Go *

-Kevin Hart here with another anecdote.

Health is wealth, people.

What I'm saying is put the fucking bacon down.

Yeah, it's good. I felt that was good.

It's money in the bank.

No, I like that. Yeah.

Repair and Synchronization by Easy Subtitles Synchronizer 1.0.0.0