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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:23,023 --> 00:00:26,985 Bob Ross is used to painting a landscape in 26 minutes, 2 00:00:27,068 --> 00:00:29,446 slightly less than the length of an episode 3 00:00:29,529 --> 00:00:31,114 in his popular television series. 4 00:00:31,197 --> 00:00:33,575 The series is The Joy of Painting. 5 00:00:34,075 --> 00:00:35,910 Hello, I'm Bob Ross. 6 00:00:35,994 --> 00:00:37,704 If this is your first time with us, 7 00:00:37,787 --> 00:00:41,791 then let me extend a personal invitation for you to get brushes and paint along 8 00:00:41,875 --> 00:00:45,587 and spend a relaxing half hour enjoying some of nature's masterpieces. 9 00:00:47,589 --> 00:00:49,591 I think each of us, sometime during our life, 10 00:00:49,674 --> 00:00:51,342 has wanted to paint a picture. 11 00:00:51,843 --> 00:00:56,139 I think there's an artist hidden in the bottom of every single one of us. 12 00:00:56,222 --> 00:00:58,933 Here, we will try to show you how to bring that artist out. 13 00:00:59,017 --> 00:01:01,269 When you paint like this for any length of time, 14 00:01:01,352 --> 00:01:03,730 you begin seeing things in your painting. 15 00:01:03,813 --> 00:01:06,191 When you see these things, take advantage of 'em. 16 00:01:06,274 --> 00:01:09,611 Take advantage of 'em, use 'em. They're like... they're like gifts. 17 00:01:09,694 --> 00:01:10,694 Use 'em. 18 00:01:10,737 --> 00:01:12,739 That's why I paint. 19 00:01:12,822 --> 00:01:15,700 It's because I can create the kind of world that I want, 20 00:01:15,784 --> 00:01:18,578 and I can make this world as happy as I want it. 21 00:01:19,788 --> 00:01:22,332 Shoot, if you want bad stuff, watch the news. 22 00:01:22,957 --> 00:01:24,042 Who's this? 23 00:01:24,125 --> 00:01:25,794 - Bob Ross! - This is Bob Ross! 24 00:01:25,877 --> 00:01:28,505 This is the most famous painter in the history of the universe. 25 00:01:28,588 --> 00:01:33,676 Here's the man who does so much magic in one half hour on PBS every week. 26 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,637 Bob Ross painted this. 27 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,480 Is that fabulous? 28 00:01:37,514 --> 00:01:38,514 Yeah. 29 00:01:39,682 --> 00:01:42,310 I'd like to introduce you today to my son, Steve. 30 00:01:42,393 --> 00:01:45,480 - Steve, glad to have you with us. - Well, thanks, Dad. 31 00:01:49,692 --> 00:01:53,154 I've been wantin' to get this story out for all of these years. 32 00:01:53,238 --> 00:01:54,614 Yeah, long time. 33 00:01:59,285 --> 00:02:02,831 There have been some hard days in the past, no doubt about that. 34 00:02:07,919 --> 00:02:10,797 I tell you, the best mountain painter in this technique 35 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:12,298 is probably my son, Steve. 36 00:02:12,382 --> 00:02:14,092 Boy, that rascal. Whew. 37 00:02:14,175 --> 00:02:15,844 He can paint some mountains. 38 00:02:16,886 --> 00:02:19,556 Maybe we'll get him on here before the series is over. 39 00:02:20,515 --> 00:02:24,352 Of course, he never could tell anybody... anything about it. 40 00:02:24,978 --> 00:02:26,437 He was always... 41 00:02:28,148 --> 00:02:31,067 pretty quiet... about the whole thing. 42 00:02:35,029 --> 00:02:39,242 It's gonna be difficult to get people to do interviews for this film. 43 00:02:39,325 --> 00:02:41,244 There's no doubt in my mind. 44 00:02:42,954 --> 00:02:44,914 What they did was shameful. 45 00:02:45,915 --> 00:02:47,750 And people should know that. 46 00:02:49,752 --> 00:02:51,087 They should know. 47 00:02:53,464 --> 00:02:57,135 On this canvas, I have absolute and total power. 48 00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:01,681 I can always escape to this piece of canvas 49 00:03:01,764 --> 00:03:04,350 and create any illusion that I want. 50 00:03:12,275 --> 00:03:16,196 And now, here's Regis Philbin and Kathie Lee Gifford. 51 00:03:18,573 --> 00:03:19,782 Hi, everybody. 52 00:03:20,283 --> 00:03:21,117 Hi, Reeg. 53 00:03:21,201 --> 00:03:24,287 Hi, everybody. Nice to see ya. Tuesday, December 3rd, 1991. 54 00:03:24,370 --> 00:03:26,873 I'm just looking over here at, uh, Bob Ross. 55 00:03:26,956 --> 00:03:29,500 I thought, for a minute, Bob was gonna do our portrait. 56 00:03:29,584 --> 00:03:32,086 Bob is looking at us, and he's painting a mountain. I dunno... 57 00:03:32,170 --> 00:03:35,215 He does... He's famous for his landscapes, mostly, Reeg. 58 00:03:35,298 --> 00:03:37,467 - Bob, do you do portraits? - Not very well. 59 00:03:37,550 --> 00:03:39,093 I... I do mostly trees and bushes. 60 00:03:39,177 --> 00:03:41,304 Yeah, you do a great bush and tree. 61 00:03:41,387 --> 00:03:43,223 Just out of memory, huh, Bob? 62 00:03:43,306 --> 00:03:47,060 Yeah, I lived in Alaska about 12 years, so a lot of my scenes come out of Alaska. 63 00:03:56,402 --> 00:04:00,323 Whew. 64 00:04:05,411 --> 00:04:07,413 How you feelin'? 65 00:04:07,497 --> 00:04:08,998 Uh... tired. 66 00:04:14,254 --> 00:04:16,631 Yeah, this all happened so long ago. 67 00:04:18,591 --> 00:04:21,761 Really havin' to pry the memories outta my head. 68 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:26,140 My father started out 69 00:04:26,224 --> 00:04:30,436 painting the old metal gold miners' pans with my mother. 70 00:04:36,442 --> 00:04:39,153 When we met, he loved to paint. 71 00:04:40,321 --> 00:04:42,532 He would paint sometimes till two in the morning, 72 00:04:42,615 --> 00:04:44,492 and he had to be at work at eight. 73 00:04:47,453 --> 00:04:49,163 Bob was in the Air Force. 74 00:04:50,498 --> 00:04:52,583 He got orders for Alaska. 75 00:04:54,168 --> 00:04:55,503 We got married. 76 00:04:56,337 --> 00:04:59,048 And then, a few months later, 77 00:04:59,132 --> 00:05:01,009 I got pregnant with Steve. 78 00:05:03,594 --> 00:05:07,640 Bob loved the forest, the animals, the trees. 79 00:05:07,724 --> 00:05:09,684 I mean, he loved it. 80 00:05:10,226 --> 00:05:11,978 I look at a lot of nature. 81 00:05:12,061 --> 00:05:14,439 And if painting teaches you nothing else, 82 00:05:14,522 --> 00:05:17,692 it'll teach you to look at nature with different eyes. 83 00:05:19,944 --> 00:05:24,115 Bob believed in doing something worthwhile, 84 00:05:24,615 --> 00:05:26,534 something he enjoyed. 85 00:05:28,244 --> 00:05:30,496 The biggest thing was his painting. 86 00:05:32,206 --> 00:05:34,500 What is he doing now? He's starting a new painting? 87 00:05:34,584 --> 00:05:35,793 He's gonna finish it... 88 00:05:35,877 --> 00:05:38,077 Within 30 minutes, he'll finish a painting. 89 00:05:38,129 --> 00:05:40,089 Is that the background? You do background first? 90 00:05:40,173 --> 00:05:42,216 Yeah, we're gonna use this tiny two-inch brush 91 00:05:42,300 --> 00:05:44,620 - to put in a happy little background. - Yeah. 92 00:05:44,677 --> 00:05:46,437 He's a happy guy, that Bob, isn't he? 93 00:05:46,512 --> 00:05:48,490 I'll show you how to fix it. 94 00:05:48,514 --> 00:05:49,932 Just a happy guy. Hey, Bob. 95 00:05:50,016 --> 00:05:52,810 We'll give you double scale if you let us cut your hair in February. 96 00:05:54,854 --> 00:05:57,065 The world is wondering if that's a perm. 97 00:05:57,148 --> 00:05:59,317 - No? That's natural? - Well, you gonna tell my secret? 98 00:06:00,318 --> 00:06:03,404 A lot of people spend an awful lot to get hair like that, and... 99 00:06:03,488 --> 00:06:04,781 God gave that to you, right? 100 00:06:04,864 --> 00:06:06,949 Well, God and my hairdresser did. 101 00:06:10,953 --> 00:06:12,288 He was always a hair guy. 102 00:06:12,372 --> 00:06:15,875 He loved messing around with different hairstyles, 103 00:06:15,958 --> 00:06:19,253 as we can all see with his Afro on television. 104 00:06:21,964 --> 00:06:23,925 The Afro was not real. 105 00:06:24,008 --> 00:06:27,887 It was... a perm... a perm, and Bob liked to call that 106 00:06:27,970 --> 00:06:30,390 "having his springs tightened" every few months. 107 00:06:33,643 --> 00:06:36,020 And, of course, I remember him painting. 108 00:06:38,272 --> 00:06:42,235 Every day, I would just have my jaw dropping open, you know, 109 00:06:42,318 --> 00:06:46,697 looking at these beautiful works of art that just came outta nowhere. 110 00:07:03,005 --> 00:07:06,467 Hi. Um... Do you wanna... Let's... let's start in the back. 111 00:07:06,551 --> 00:07:08,761 - Yeah, sure. - We'll walk to the back. 112 00:07:08,845 --> 00:07:10,972 Uh, show us the... old studio. 113 00:07:11,055 --> 00:07:14,100 We'll go see where the joy really began. 114 00:07:14,183 --> 00:07:16,644 Let's check it out. 115 00:07:16,727 --> 00:07:21,607 My first meeting of Bob was 42 years ago. 116 00:07:22,817 --> 00:07:25,903 He decided to take a painting class from me. 117 00:07:26,529 --> 00:07:28,322 For the first assignment, 118 00:07:28,406 --> 00:07:35,037 I just asked them to paint a picture of the thing that you love most. 119 00:07:36,038 --> 00:07:40,209 Instantly, I knew he was an accomplished painter. 120 00:07:40,293 --> 00:07:43,629 So, one thing that I definitely don't want to do 121 00:07:43,713 --> 00:07:49,510 is... put forth the idea that I was Bob's teacher. 122 00:07:51,471 --> 00:07:54,640 Many of the class would lay down their brushes 123 00:07:54,724 --> 00:07:58,186 and come over to see what Bob was doing. 124 00:07:58,269 --> 00:08:01,022 And you know, he loved an audience. 125 00:08:01,105 --> 00:08:02,105 Always did. 126 00:08:03,483 --> 00:08:06,694 My dad started off with traditional-style painting, 127 00:08:06,777 --> 00:08:08,863 but he got tired of that. 128 00:08:09,405 --> 00:08:13,826 My father was the type of man that, he would be on one project, 129 00:08:13,910 --> 00:08:15,077 and in his mind, 130 00:08:15,161 --> 00:08:17,872 he would be halfway through the next project 131 00:08:17,955 --> 00:08:19,540 at the same time. 132 00:08:20,875 --> 00:08:23,920 He had so many different plans 133 00:08:24,003 --> 00:08:26,380 that those are the things he filled his head with, 134 00:08:26,464 --> 00:08:30,801 rather than... uh, anything that was happening at the current time. 135 00:08:35,890 --> 00:08:38,601 My parents, they had a pretty shaky relationship. 136 00:08:40,061 --> 00:08:41,771 Eventually divorced. 137 00:08:44,023 --> 00:08:47,193 We were livin' in Spokane, Washington, at that time. 138 00:08:49,862 --> 00:08:52,281 Then he met Jane Zanardelli. 139 00:08:53,866 --> 00:08:56,369 She had been base commander's secretary 140 00:08:56,452 --> 00:08:58,871 on Air Force bases we lived on. 141 00:08:59,956 --> 00:09:03,292 She was just head over heels for my father. 142 00:09:05,253 --> 00:09:08,172 And he absolutely loved her to death. 143 00:09:11,175 --> 00:09:15,346 But my father was always thinking about the next painting. 144 00:09:23,729 --> 00:09:26,274 Hooray! That's what we have to do. 145 00:09:26,357 --> 00:09:29,485 I have to put myself in that almighty bubble. 146 00:09:29,569 --> 00:09:35,283 Bob saw a video done by William Alexander, 147 00:09:35,366 --> 00:09:39,120 and he was very taken with what William was doing. 148 00:09:39,203 --> 00:09:42,331 It almost made me angry the first time I saw Alexander on TV, 149 00:09:42,415 --> 00:09:46,544 that he could do in a matter of minutes what took me days to do. 150 00:09:48,462 --> 00:09:51,757 It got to be fast. Don't fiddle around for hours. 151 00:09:51,841 --> 00:09:53,175 Too many details there. 152 00:09:53,259 --> 00:09:54,468 People what don't paint, 153 00:09:54,552 --> 00:09:57,555 they would think that guy works a whole year on that painting. 154 00:09:57,638 --> 00:10:01,517 An oil painting can take days, months, even years to paint. 155 00:10:01,601 --> 00:10:05,813 Bill Alexander accelerates everything with this wet-on-wet technique. 156 00:10:05,896 --> 00:10:08,274 First, I put my almighty Magic White on. 157 00:10:08,774 --> 00:10:12,570 He'll usually pre-prime a canvas with gesso, white, gray, or black. 158 00:10:12,653 --> 00:10:14,697 Touch of Prussian blue. 159 00:10:15,740 --> 00:10:17,366 See? Not too much paint. 160 00:10:18,743 --> 00:10:21,370 And then he's putting oil paint on top of that. 161 00:10:22,038 --> 00:10:25,333 The proper name for it is "alla prima," the first attempt. 162 00:10:25,416 --> 00:10:30,004 It allows for certain things that you cannot achieve with dry paint. 163 00:10:31,672 --> 00:10:34,342 In the mid-15th century, 164 00:10:34,425 --> 00:10:36,510 it was used for hair 165 00:10:36,594 --> 00:10:37,887 and certain fabrics, 166 00:10:38,763 --> 00:10:42,016 just to give the effect of textures and movement. 167 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:47,355 The most famous instance, perhaps, of alla prima is Impressionism. 168 00:10:48,189 --> 00:10:52,151 So, alla prima is a very, very, very old invention. 169 00:10:55,196 --> 00:10:58,616 Bob said, "I really would like to meet this man." 170 00:10:59,241 --> 00:11:02,203 He'd pretty much had enough of military life. 171 00:11:02,953 --> 00:11:04,664 He just wanted to paint. 172 00:11:05,373 --> 00:11:09,377 I knew a woman that would invite William Alexander 173 00:11:09,460 --> 00:11:12,129 down to her studio for a workshop. 174 00:11:13,464 --> 00:11:17,426 Bob and William hit it off nicely. 175 00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:19,178 I saw Alexander on television, 176 00:11:19,261 --> 00:11:21,889 and like millions of other people, I fell in love with him. 177 00:11:22,390 --> 00:11:24,392 And it took me about a year to find him. 178 00:11:24,475 --> 00:11:28,646 I studied with Bill, and when I retired from the military, 179 00:11:28,729 --> 00:11:30,940 they offered me a position with Magic Art Company 180 00:11:31,023 --> 00:11:32,650 as a traveling art instructor. 181 00:11:34,318 --> 00:11:38,280 He was teaching classes up and down the East Coast, 182 00:11:38,364 --> 00:11:41,492 selling paint and selling canvases and brushes, 183 00:11:41,575 --> 00:11:45,871 which were always a big part of these programs. 184 00:11:55,339 --> 00:11:59,552 I met Bob Ross at the Muncie Mall in 1982, 185 00:12:00,052 --> 00:12:03,097 and he was in there doin' a painting demonstration. 186 00:12:03,848 --> 00:12:06,767 I was fascinated by him 'cause I already painted. 187 00:12:07,351 --> 00:12:10,813 We had so much in common that... we just became friends. 188 00:12:16,569 --> 00:12:18,571 There was a white-haired lady there with him. 189 00:12:19,822 --> 00:12:22,533 She was there to help sell paintings. 190 00:12:23,367 --> 00:12:26,787 Later, I found out that that was Annette Kowalski. 191 00:12:27,788 --> 00:12:31,667 I'd like to introduce you to my partner and longtime friend, Annette Kowalski. 192 00:12:31,751 --> 00:12:33,878 - Annette, welcome to the show. - Thanks, Bob. 193 00:12:35,045 --> 00:12:37,715 My father met the Kowalskis through Annette, 194 00:12:37,798 --> 00:12:41,635 who came to take a painting class from Bill Alexander. 195 00:12:42,094 --> 00:12:44,430 Annette had already been a good artist. 196 00:12:44,513 --> 00:12:47,266 There was no classes available from him, 197 00:12:47,767 --> 00:12:51,228 but she found out there was a protégé of Bill Alexander 198 00:12:51,312 --> 00:12:52,605 named Bob Ross. 199 00:12:58,778 --> 00:13:01,363 She was... looking for something, 200 00:13:01,447 --> 00:13:04,408 and, uh, she found it in... in Bob Ross. 201 00:13:04,492 --> 00:13:07,953 And it wasn't just the painting. It was something bigger than that. 202 00:13:09,622 --> 00:13:13,459 She felt renewed, inspired by Bob. 203 00:13:16,504 --> 00:13:21,425 I had lost a son, and I was desperately grieving. 204 00:13:24,595 --> 00:13:27,014 I was so devastated, 205 00:13:27,515 --> 00:13:32,812 all I could do was lay on the couch and watch television. 206 00:13:35,189 --> 00:13:39,026 She was changed forever, I think, by the death of her son. 207 00:13:40,653 --> 00:13:45,282 Annette needed something to work her out of her depression. 208 00:13:45,825 --> 00:13:49,453 I called Bob, and I said, "I don't know what you've got, 209 00:13:49,537 --> 00:13:52,122 but I think we ought to bottle it and sell it." 210 00:13:53,833 --> 00:13:56,418 She took him back home to Walt and said, 211 00:13:56,502 --> 00:13:58,504 "Hey, you know, this guy's magical." 212 00:13:58,587 --> 00:14:01,298 "We should try to do some kind of business with this guy." 213 00:14:02,758 --> 00:14:08,639 I don't think Bob really understood what the future held for him at that time. 214 00:14:09,431 --> 00:14:12,101 He was just not into it for the money. 215 00:14:13,477 --> 00:14:16,355 But the Kowalskis certainly were. 216 00:14:18,732 --> 00:14:22,027 The Kowalskis encouraged Bob to go out on his own 217 00:14:22,111 --> 00:14:25,823 and that they were willing to invest in his own enterprise, 218 00:14:25,906 --> 00:14:29,368 that, in many ways, were modeled on what he was doing with Bill Alexander, 219 00:14:29,451 --> 00:14:31,036 teaching workshops. 220 00:14:34,206 --> 00:14:36,041 They gave him his new career. 221 00:14:36,125 --> 00:14:37,585 His new life, really. 222 00:14:39,503 --> 00:14:42,256 That was before anybody even knew Bob Ross. 223 00:14:42,339 --> 00:14:43,966 They'd say, "Who's Bob Ross?" 224 00:14:45,467 --> 00:14:48,387 One day, he said, "Do you want to go to Chicago with me?" 225 00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:51,181 "I think I'm gonna have a big class and I need help." 226 00:14:52,224 --> 00:14:55,436 We get to Chicago. Guess how many people shows up. 227 00:14:57,688 --> 00:15:01,567 To save money and to keep the business all in one place, 228 00:15:01,650 --> 00:15:05,905 and everybody there to work, we moved in with the Kowalskis 229 00:15:05,988 --> 00:15:08,574 for, I don't know, a year and a half, two years. 230 00:15:09,825 --> 00:15:12,286 Which was, uh... very interesting. 231 00:15:15,122 --> 00:15:18,709 Walt and Jane, they handled all the administrative work. 232 00:15:19,627 --> 00:15:21,045 It's two married couples, 233 00:15:21,128 --> 00:15:23,923 but one husband workin' with the other wife, 234 00:15:24,006 --> 00:15:25,591 and then, you know, vice versa. 235 00:15:26,967 --> 00:15:30,012 We got to know them more and more. 236 00:15:31,305 --> 00:15:33,766 If there was something to be said within the family, 237 00:15:33,849 --> 00:15:35,768 they would go to a separate room 238 00:15:35,851 --> 00:15:40,147 and do their talking outside of the ears of other people. 239 00:15:42,733 --> 00:15:47,571 Walter, at that time, had just retired from the CIA. 240 00:15:48,948 --> 00:15:51,533 Like a lot of people who retire from the government, 241 00:15:51,617 --> 00:15:53,869 he would use previous government connections 242 00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:57,581 and ties in order to have success in business. 243 00:16:00,417 --> 00:16:03,921 The Kowalskis always recorded their business phone calls 244 00:16:05,005 --> 00:16:08,509 with a suction cup on the back of a telephone. 245 00:16:08,592 --> 00:16:11,929 Which I always thought was pretty weird. 246 00:16:17,476 --> 00:16:21,397 I just wonder sometimes how things would've worked out 247 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:27,027 if... if he had not hooked up with Annette and Walter. 248 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,992 That could've been better for him, and... I don't know. 249 00:16:33,075 --> 00:16:38,038 It's... it's one of those unanswered questions. 250 00:16:44,628 --> 00:16:46,964 At the tone, please record your message. 251 00:16:47,047 --> 00:16:49,299 When you've finished recording, you may hang up. 252 00:16:49,383 --> 00:16:51,802 Yeah, this is Dana Jester, returning your call. 253 00:16:51,885 --> 00:16:53,595 Just give me a call back later. 254 00:16:54,096 --> 00:16:55,514 Uh, thanks. Bye. 255 00:16:57,391 --> 00:17:01,311 A lot of people are backin' out that agreed to do an interview for this 256 00:17:01,395 --> 00:17:03,439 because they're scared of the Kowalskis. 257 00:17:03,522 --> 00:17:05,941 The Kowalskis are really known for suing people, 258 00:17:06,025 --> 00:17:07,776 so that's what they're afraid of. 259 00:17:16,035 --> 00:17:18,620 Okay. In five, four... 260 00:17:19,455 --> 00:17:23,292 I hand over that almighty brush to our mighty man, Bob. 261 00:17:23,375 --> 00:17:24,585 Thank you very much, Bill. 262 00:17:24,668 --> 00:17:27,129 We've had so many cards requesting classes in this area 263 00:17:27,212 --> 00:17:29,089 that we've decided to set one up here, 264 00:17:29,173 --> 00:17:31,508 and we will have a class going in the near future. 265 00:17:31,592 --> 00:17:33,927 We'll produce some almighty painters. 266 00:17:34,511 --> 00:17:37,723 My parents decided to do a little ad spot. 267 00:17:37,806 --> 00:17:40,267 And while Bob was painting, 268 00:17:40,350 --> 00:17:42,978 the station manager walked by, and he said, 269 00:17:43,062 --> 00:17:48,108 "What that guy is doing is remarkable. Let's do a series with him." 270 00:17:49,651 --> 00:17:52,321 Knowing what Bill Alexander was able to achieve 271 00:17:52,404 --> 00:17:53,530 through his broadcasts, 272 00:17:53,614 --> 00:17:56,158 the Kowalskis thought that that could be a way 273 00:17:56,241 --> 00:17:58,911 to create a... a newer audience, 274 00:17:58,994 --> 00:18:03,582 which would, in turn, drive people to the workshops. 275 00:18:04,083 --> 00:18:08,545 It was a very humble beginning, one that was not economically sustainable, 276 00:18:08,629 --> 00:18:12,174 to one that became very economically sustainable. 277 00:18:12,674 --> 00:18:15,594 We were in an old house, and... and we filmed in a living room. 278 00:18:15,677 --> 00:18:19,431 That's the reason there's a black curtain, Because we were covering up the fireplace. 279 00:18:19,515 --> 00:18:21,892 And the switcher, it was in the kitchen. 280 00:18:22,518 --> 00:18:26,855 We start with a vision in our heart, and we put it on canvas, 281 00:18:26,939 --> 00:18:29,942 and we're here to teach you to be able to do this too. 282 00:18:30,442 --> 00:18:33,487 So, let's do it. Let's paint a picture, right here. 283 00:18:33,987 --> 00:18:36,490 He filmed three shows in one day, 284 00:18:37,074 --> 00:18:39,618 which was really a lot of work. 285 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,204 Painting in 28 minutes 286 00:18:42,287 --> 00:18:46,208 and finishing an entire landscape was hard enough, 287 00:18:46,291 --> 00:18:48,168 but that was just the beginning. 288 00:18:48,252 --> 00:18:51,296 It was all the, "Turn the palette this direction," 289 00:18:51,380 --> 00:18:53,549 or "You've only got this much time left," 290 00:18:53,632 --> 00:18:57,761 or "Whoops. The example painting fell off the easel right in the middle of it." 291 00:18:57,845 --> 00:18:59,721 "I don't know what to do. It's facedown." 292 00:18:59,805 --> 00:19:01,390 And, "Where do I go from here?" 293 00:19:01,473 --> 00:19:05,060 This is your creation. You can do anything here that you wanna do. 294 00:19:05,144 --> 00:19:06,770 But he got better at it. 295 00:19:07,271 --> 00:19:09,857 You gettin' excited yet? Are you ready to paint with us? 296 00:19:10,524 --> 00:19:11,650 You can do it. 297 00:19:17,322 --> 00:19:19,283 I don't even remember it from this angle. 298 00:19:19,366 --> 00:19:20,909 It's been so many years. 299 00:19:21,493 --> 00:19:25,497 This might be the very first place they filmed, and, uh, the place I was at 300 00:19:25,581 --> 00:19:27,833 looked a little bit different than this one though. 301 00:19:27,916 --> 00:19:28,750 Oh, lookie there. 302 00:19:28,834 --> 00:19:32,254 Yep. They got all kinds of Bob Ross stuff right here. 303 00:19:33,463 --> 00:19:35,299 This was the studio space. 304 00:19:35,382 --> 00:19:37,759 So, we want to invite people to come in and celebrate Bob. 305 00:19:37,843 --> 00:19:38,677 Mm-hmm. 306 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,013 Um, so, over here, we've got our X on the floor 307 00:19:41,096 --> 00:19:43,056 where we're pretty sure the easel was. 308 00:19:43,140 --> 00:19:46,185 Uh, we know it moved back and forth different times throughout the room. 309 00:19:46,268 --> 00:19:49,438 People continually say, "I can't draw a straight line." 310 00:19:49,521 --> 00:19:52,191 "I don't have the talent, Bob, to do what you're doing." 311 00:19:52,691 --> 00:19:53,691 That's baloney. 312 00:19:54,193 --> 00:19:56,153 Talent is a pursued interest. 313 00:19:56,904 --> 00:20:00,490 In other words, anything you're willing to practice, you can do. 314 00:20:00,991 --> 00:20:02,451 And this is no exception. 315 00:20:03,118 --> 00:20:06,079 By the second series, he got rid of the glasses, 316 00:20:06,163 --> 00:20:08,749 and he was pretty darn confident 317 00:20:09,249 --> 00:20:12,586 that it was gonna go maybe even better than he thought. 318 00:20:13,962 --> 00:20:16,381 I worked on Joy of Painting from the start. 319 00:20:16,465 --> 00:20:18,884 I thought, "Wow. This is gonna be so much fun," 320 00:20:18,967 --> 00:20:21,762 'cause that was my favorite thing in... in production, directing. 321 00:20:21,845 --> 00:20:23,388 I like tellin' people what to do. 322 00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:27,517 At first, he'd have a painting off to the side, 323 00:20:27,601 --> 00:20:30,187 so we kinda knew what it was gonna look like. 324 00:20:32,189 --> 00:20:35,400 But eventually, he kinda just did away with that and had it in his head. 325 00:20:35,484 --> 00:20:37,736 We got a minute or so left here. 326 00:20:37,819 --> 00:20:40,447 But every time I gave him a two-minute cue, 327 00:20:40,530 --> 00:20:42,950 "Oh, it's time for a big ol' tree!" 328 00:20:43,033 --> 00:20:45,160 And I tell you, from the very last taping, 329 00:20:45,244 --> 00:20:49,581 I always got nervous 'cause I wasn't sure if he'd get her done. 330 00:20:50,165 --> 00:20:52,793 Okay, you ready? This is your bravery test, big-time. 331 00:20:53,293 --> 00:20:54,293 Right here. 332 00:20:54,336 --> 00:20:56,755 Pew. 333 00:20:56,838 --> 00:21:00,467 But that's what makes it fun. Be brave. Take a chance. 334 00:21:00,968 --> 00:21:03,053 All right. Here's your bravery test. 335 00:21:06,139 --> 00:21:07,057 Pew. 336 00:21:07,140 --> 00:21:09,059 There ought to be a big tree right here, though. 337 00:21:09,142 --> 00:21:12,062 And by putting this tree in, it does two things. 338 00:21:12,145 --> 00:21:15,190 It drives my director crazy, that's the first. 339 00:21:15,691 --> 00:21:17,776 But the second thing is it pushes everything back. 340 00:21:17,859 --> 00:21:20,028 It gives much more perspective. 341 00:21:20,529 --> 00:21:22,197 It was like it was magic. 342 00:21:24,283 --> 00:21:26,785 With Bob Ross, when something doesn't work out, 343 00:21:26,868 --> 00:21:29,621 for the most part, he does what a good teacher would do. 344 00:21:30,455 --> 00:21:32,082 You take it in stride. 345 00:21:32,833 --> 00:21:35,043 Your next step is correction. 346 00:21:36,586 --> 00:21:38,338 Hi. Glad you could join me today. 347 00:21:38,422 --> 00:21:40,590 You sorta caught me piddlin' around here a little bit. 348 00:21:40,674 --> 00:21:44,219 I get so many cards and letters from people all over the country saying, 349 00:21:44,303 --> 00:21:46,638 "Bob, what should I do if I'm in the middle of a painting 350 00:21:46,722 --> 00:21:47,848 and decide I don't like it?" 351 00:21:47,931 --> 00:21:49,516 Over and over again, I say, 352 00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:52,269 "We don't make mistakes. We have happy accidents." 353 00:21:53,854 --> 00:21:55,397 And he's overcome this notion 354 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,108 that you have to have talent, born with talent, 355 00:21:58,191 --> 00:21:59,985 blessed by the hand of God... 356 00:22:00,652 --> 00:22:03,155 uh, to be able to paint, and it's absolutely false. 357 00:22:04,698 --> 00:22:07,743 He believed that anybody can create things. 358 00:22:07,826 --> 00:22:10,704 You know, just recently I was doing a demonstration in a mall, 359 00:22:10,787 --> 00:22:12,664 and I had a man come to me, and he said, 360 00:22:12,748 --> 00:22:15,834 "Bob, I could never paint, because I'm colorblind." 361 00:22:15,917 --> 00:22:18,045 "All I can see is gray tones." 362 00:22:18,128 --> 00:22:22,382 I thought today we'd do a picture in gray just to show you that anyone can paint. 363 00:22:23,425 --> 00:22:27,637 It really spoke to Bob's heart that he was willing to do that. 364 00:22:28,472 --> 00:22:30,766 Didn't know you had so much power, did you? 365 00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:33,185 You really can do this. 366 00:22:33,935 --> 00:22:37,189 Can move mountains, trees, mighty rivers. 367 00:22:37,773 --> 00:22:40,359 We're gonna start off with a bit of the midnight black. 368 00:22:40,442 --> 00:22:43,070 Maybe in our world, there's just a happy little cloud 369 00:22:43,153 --> 00:22:44,404 that lives up here. 370 00:22:44,488 --> 00:22:47,783 Shoot, when we were kids, my brother Jim and I, we used to... 371 00:22:47,866 --> 00:22:50,786 we used to sorta lay on our back out in the field and 372 00:22:50,869 --> 00:22:54,247 look up at clouds and see all kinds of crazy shapes in 'em. 373 00:22:54,331 --> 00:22:56,958 I bet you've done that too, whether you'll admit it or not. 374 00:22:57,793 --> 00:23:03,840 The Bob you see on TV is pretty darn close to his real attitude 375 00:23:03,924 --> 00:23:07,719 about nature and about everything, really. 376 00:23:07,803 --> 00:23:10,889 Today I have a couple of guests that I want to introduce you to. 377 00:23:11,014 --> 00:23:15,018 These are two little baby robins. They're some of the cutest little rascals. 378 00:23:15,102 --> 00:23:17,479 Hey. Ooh, what you gonna do? Huh? 379 00:23:17,562 --> 00:23:19,481 He loved nature. 380 00:23:22,609 --> 00:23:25,821 He had a canoe and would go out on a lake. 381 00:23:26,947 --> 00:23:28,448 He would catch a few fish, 382 00:23:28,532 --> 00:23:31,118 but he would always throw the fish back. 383 00:23:31,201 --> 00:23:33,495 He wouldn't keep any of those fish. 384 00:23:36,123 --> 00:23:38,166 He used to say he hunted with a camera. 385 00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:42,921 This is Peapod. Peapod the pocket squirrel. 386 00:23:43,004 --> 00:23:46,550 It fell out of a tree, and a very nice lady brought him to me 387 00:23:46,633 --> 00:23:50,095 and asked me if I would take care of it till he got big enough to release. 388 00:23:50,804 --> 00:23:53,056 You know, if he saw an injured animal, 389 00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:55,642 he'd do whatever he could do to help. 390 00:23:56,184 --> 00:23:58,812 One thing I've noticed as I travel across the country, 391 00:23:58,895 --> 00:24:01,189 doing demonstrations and teaching classes... 392 00:24:02,315 --> 00:24:04,025 only nice people paint. 393 00:24:04,818 --> 00:24:08,029 Everybody I've ever met that's a painter, they're super people. 394 00:24:08,613 --> 00:24:11,783 After the show started, every workshop was just blasted full. 395 00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:17,289 'Cause there were so many people wanting to instruct, themselves. 396 00:24:17,873 --> 00:24:20,375 So, he decided to do the teacher training. 397 00:24:21,751 --> 00:24:24,296 I see most of you already have done it. 398 00:24:24,379 --> 00:24:27,090 Like, the real thin coat of Liquid White on your canvas. 399 00:24:28,592 --> 00:24:31,511 You guys been watching Bob so much, you already know all that. 400 00:24:32,721 --> 00:24:35,515 Today, it's my privilege, as well as my pleasure, 401 00:24:35,599 --> 00:24:36,808 to present to you 402 00:24:36,892 --> 00:24:40,520 one of the finest teachers in the country, as well as one of my closest friends. 403 00:24:40,604 --> 00:24:43,064 I'd like to present to you, today, Mr. Dana Jester. 404 00:24:43,148 --> 00:24:44,566 Dana travels all over the country, 405 00:24:44,649 --> 00:24:46,485 and he teaches literally thousands of people 406 00:24:46,568 --> 00:24:48,195 The Joy of Painting. 407 00:24:48,945 --> 00:24:50,322 We were the originate... 408 00:24:50,405 --> 00:24:52,725 - We were there from the very beginning. - We were day one. 409 00:24:54,659 --> 00:24:58,914 My son Steve, boy, he... he's a dynamite painter, and he just... 410 00:24:59,456 --> 00:25:02,042 He's so young, and he gets so excited over this. 411 00:25:02,125 --> 00:25:06,296 It's nice to see young people get excited over something like this. 412 00:25:06,379 --> 00:25:07,839 We send Steve all over the country, 413 00:25:07,923 --> 00:25:10,800 and he teaches hundreds of people The Joy of Painting. 414 00:25:10,884 --> 00:25:13,178 Tap down into the paint. 415 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,226 And then, you know, these little areas that you have that are in between, 416 00:25:19,309 --> 00:25:22,062 that are dark, you can just touch. 417 00:25:22,145 --> 00:25:27,400 Bob liked the thrill of watching a new student smile 418 00:25:27,901 --> 00:25:30,779 with a fresh, new, beautiful painting. 419 00:25:32,948 --> 00:25:35,867 Bob would just make 'em so happy, it's... it's unreal. 420 00:25:38,203 --> 00:25:41,331 It's like, "Man, did I do this? I couldn't have." 421 00:25:42,332 --> 00:25:43,458 Yes, you did. 422 00:25:44,793 --> 00:25:49,130 There's a lot going on besides painting, and I think people are aware of that, 423 00:25:49,214 --> 00:25:50,757 and they enjoy that. 424 00:25:52,050 --> 00:25:56,680 Despite Ross's success, he was not completely unique. 425 00:25:57,764 --> 00:26:02,352 In the early '80s, other artists were also teaching on television. 426 00:26:04,729 --> 00:26:07,649 We started on TV in '83, 427 00:26:07,732 --> 00:26:10,026 the same year as Bob Ross. 428 00:26:10,819 --> 00:26:14,364 Ross was doing his thing, his landscapes, 429 00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:16,908 and we were doing flowers. 430 00:26:17,993 --> 00:26:20,954 Bob would say, "I'm a mountain and tree guy." 431 00:26:21,955 --> 00:26:23,039 He also said, 432 00:26:23,123 --> 00:26:25,875 "If you wanna learn to paint flowers, go to the Jenkins." 433 00:26:28,169 --> 00:26:33,049 At trade shows, Bob and I, uh, many times would have dinner together. 434 00:26:34,884 --> 00:26:37,012 And after dinner, 435 00:26:37,095 --> 00:26:42,225 we would walk around to see who got recognized the most. 436 00:26:43,393 --> 00:26:45,478 'Course, Bob always won that. 437 00:26:50,317 --> 00:26:53,695 Talk to me about what Bob was like away from the camera. 438 00:26:53,778 --> 00:26:55,113 Oh, yeah, he's fun. 439 00:26:55,614 --> 00:26:57,616 Well, I just wanna share a little secret. 440 00:26:57,699 --> 00:26:59,492 He could be ornery. 441 00:26:59,576 --> 00:27:02,287 He would tell us ornery jokes right before we started taping. 442 00:27:02,370 --> 00:27:06,916 I think, just to loose... loosen us all up. But yeah, he was like he was on camera. 443 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:12,672 He was fun, and he had charisma like you've never seen before. 444 00:27:14,966 --> 00:27:18,219 He was more energetic in life, 445 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,348 and he really liked fast cars. 446 00:27:21,973 --> 00:27:25,352 The competition has nothing to match this car. 447 00:27:25,852 --> 00:27:29,230 Chevrolet's incomparable Corvette. 448 00:27:29,731 --> 00:27:31,816 He had a '69 Stingray, 449 00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:34,569 all hand-molded fiberglass, 450 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,448 350 motor, built to the hilt. 451 00:27:38,948 --> 00:27:42,410 Took me out one day in the Corvette. I said, "What are you doin'?" 452 00:27:42,494 --> 00:27:44,704 He said, "Gonna take you on a thrill ride, dude." 453 00:27:50,168 --> 00:27:54,005 It's not that he liked to scare people. He liked to thrill people. 454 00:27:54,089 --> 00:27:55,840 Yeah, he was really into that. 455 00:28:02,138 --> 00:28:06,768 The Kowalskis took care of the business aspects of the enterprise, 456 00:28:06,851 --> 00:28:10,063 and they freed up Bob to do what he did best, 457 00:28:10,146 --> 00:28:12,023 which was to connect with people. 458 00:28:14,401 --> 00:28:17,237 Everybody just tried to work and do their job. 459 00:28:18,488 --> 00:28:21,825 Jane, I mean, she was highly intelligent, you know, 460 00:28:21,908 --> 00:28:24,869 and incredible at administrative work. 461 00:28:26,371 --> 00:28:31,334 She taught me if you're gonna do a job, do it right, don't do it halfway. 462 00:28:33,169 --> 00:28:35,088 And so, with Walt and Annette, 463 00:28:35,171 --> 00:28:38,758 the two families, they had a really good thing going. 464 00:28:39,384 --> 00:28:43,888 Within five years, everything seemed to be workin' pretty well. 465 00:28:46,057 --> 00:28:49,686 His joy and his love just illuminated a room. 466 00:28:50,353 --> 00:28:53,690 I just remember him making me feel like family. 467 00:28:53,773 --> 00:28:56,651 Every morning that he got there for his show, 468 00:28:56,735 --> 00:29:01,406 he would come into my office with his cup of coffee and tell jokes 469 00:29:01,489 --> 00:29:03,533 and put his arms around us 470 00:29:03,616 --> 00:29:07,495 and... and just tease us like a big brother. 471 00:29:09,748 --> 00:29:11,833 He did have a heart of gold, 472 00:29:13,084 --> 00:29:15,879 but he was also a showman. 473 00:29:16,588 --> 00:29:19,883 I'm gonna get our little... our little soft blender brush, 474 00:29:20,467 --> 00:29:22,510 very gentle, soft, little brush, 475 00:29:22,594 --> 00:29:25,805 and just blend the base of that out a little bit. 476 00:29:26,347 --> 00:29:27,974 Gentle, gentle, gentle. 477 00:29:28,558 --> 00:29:29,684 Barely touching. 478 00:29:30,185 --> 00:29:32,520 Just caress the canvas a little. 479 00:29:33,521 --> 00:29:34,689 There we go. 480 00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:38,735 I asked him, "Why do you talk this way on TV?" 481 00:29:38,818 --> 00:29:44,157 And he said, "Well, you know, Bill Alexander was always kind of harsh." 482 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,495 You know, I use the other color already in my... in my brush here for the clouds. 483 00:29:48,578 --> 00:29:53,082 They already have so much yellow. So, I like to have a change. 484 00:29:53,166 --> 00:29:55,293 You know, his voice was harsh. 485 00:29:55,376 --> 00:29:58,171 He was very hyper and energetic. 486 00:29:58,254 --> 00:29:59,589 So, my father said, 487 00:29:59,672 --> 00:30:03,676 "Well, uh, it seems to me that most of our audience is female." 488 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,179 "A lot of the audience is female, 489 00:30:06,262 --> 00:30:09,140 so maybe I'll try to whisper." 490 00:30:09,641 --> 00:30:11,434 In other words, he tried to create 491 00:30:11,518 --> 00:30:16,105 almost exactly the opposite of what Bill Alexander was like. 492 00:30:16,815 --> 00:30:18,733 Grab it and lift it. 493 00:30:18,817 --> 00:30:21,611 Fluff it, tease it, pull it. 494 00:30:22,237 --> 00:30:23,947 Mmm. There. 495 00:30:24,948 --> 00:30:26,199 Make love to it here. 496 00:30:26,282 --> 00:30:29,327 Very gentle. Very gentle. 497 00:30:30,453 --> 00:30:33,373 The fact that he calls his show "The Joy of Painting," 498 00:30:33,456 --> 00:30:34,874 of course, is not coincidental 499 00:30:34,958 --> 00:30:38,711 because that feeds into this whole tradition of how-to things 500 00:30:38,795 --> 00:30:40,421 in the early '70s. 501 00:30:40,505 --> 00:30:42,215 There's The Joy of Cooking, 502 00:30:42,298 --> 00:30:43,842 but then The Joy of Sex. 503 00:30:43,925 --> 00:30:46,469 That was a watershed publication. 504 00:30:46,970 --> 00:30:51,182 It really makes sense that Bob Ross adopted a very similar title. 505 00:30:51,683 --> 00:30:54,936 He's speaking with this liquid tranquilizer of a voice, 506 00:30:55,019 --> 00:30:56,521 which is very sensual. 507 00:30:56,604 --> 00:31:01,276 He pretends like he's talking to one woman, in bed. 508 00:31:02,318 --> 00:31:04,571 It's true. He practiced. 509 00:31:04,654 --> 00:31:06,865 He was trying to be a little sexy. 510 00:31:06,948 --> 00:31:09,534 I talk to only one person when I'm filming, 511 00:31:09,617 --> 00:31:12,245 and I'm really crazy about that person. 512 00:31:12,328 --> 00:31:14,122 It's a one-on-one situation. 513 00:31:14,205 --> 00:31:15,874 And I think people realize that, 514 00:31:15,957 --> 00:31:18,668 and they... they do feel that they know me, and I feel I know them. 515 00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:21,004 Barely touching. 516 00:31:21,504 --> 00:31:22,964 Just caress it. 517 00:31:23,464 --> 00:31:25,300 Graze it. Caress it. 518 00:31:25,383 --> 00:31:27,093 Shake off the excess. 519 00:31:29,596 --> 00:31:31,806 And just beat the devil out of it. 520 00:31:31,890 --> 00:31:34,767 Now also, if there's any questions we don't answer during the show, 521 00:31:34,851 --> 00:31:35,727 drop us a line. 522 00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:39,689 We'll be glad to try to answer almost any question you can come up with, 523 00:31:39,772 --> 00:31:41,399 long as it's not too personal. 524 00:31:41,482 --> 00:31:42,817 Let's see here. What's... 525 00:31:42,901 --> 00:31:47,155 Oh. We're not gonna read that one on TV. We'll just... we'll set it aside and go on. 526 00:31:48,156 --> 00:31:50,491 Bob was doin' a painting demonstration. 527 00:31:50,575 --> 00:31:52,619 After he finished his painting, he goes, 528 00:31:52,702 --> 00:31:54,329 "Steve, Dana, come here." 529 00:31:54,412 --> 00:31:57,665 "Protect me. All these ladies are wantin' my autograph and followin' me." 530 00:31:57,749 --> 00:32:01,085 - "I'm tryin' to go to the restroom." - They were rippin' his shirt off. 531 00:32:01,169 --> 00:32:02,170 It's crazy. 532 00:32:02,253 --> 00:32:04,881 Tryin' to get a piece of chest hair, even, or anything. 533 00:32:07,050 --> 00:32:10,428 Bob was charismatic, but he was a little bit of a flirt. 534 00:32:11,095 --> 00:32:14,807 He flirted with me, flirted with any female staff member. 535 00:32:14,891 --> 00:32:17,477 That's just the way he was. He was just charming. 536 00:32:18,019 --> 00:32:20,939 But I think he also did it to make people feel good. 537 00:32:25,234 --> 00:32:28,529 Annette, uh, became quite enchanted with Bob. 538 00:32:28,613 --> 00:32:32,992 I remember Bob Ross get-together in Daytona. 539 00:32:33,076 --> 00:32:36,704 And everybody wanted to have their picture taken with Bob. 540 00:32:36,788 --> 00:32:41,125 Annette was just jealous about relationships 541 00:32:41,209 --> 00:32:44,379 that Bob had with others besides herself. 542 00:32:47,382 --> 00:32:49,592 Bob would pay attention to someone else, 543 00:32:49,676 --> 00:32:51,594 and Annette didn't like that. 544 00:32:51,678 --> 00:32:55,181 That might've been a little... I'd say, little jealousy streak. 545 00:32:55,264 --> 00:32:56,099 - I dunno. - Yep. 546 00:32:56,182 --> 00:32:58,184 - Anybody that got close to Bob. - Yeah. 547 00:32:58,267 --> 00:33:00,067 - She was like that. - Exactly. 548 00:33:02,730 --> 00:33:05,108 Tell me a little bit about your impression 549 00:33:05,191 --> 00:33:08,236 of what the relationship between Bob and Annette was. 550 00:33:09,946 --> 00:33:10,946 Mmm. 551 00:33:14,117 --> 00:33:16,285 I don't know. Do I go there? 552 00:33:18,663 --> 00:33:20,665 Was Bob and Annette a thing? 553 00:33:21,374 --> 00:33:23,418 Everybody always asks that question. 554 00:33:24,627 --> 00:33:25,670 And the answer is... 555 00:33:27,338 --> 00:33:28,631 Steve might know. 556 00:33:31,134 --> 00:33:32,260 Mmm. 557 00:33:36,597 --> 00:33:41,477 There was an affair between my father and Annette, yes. 558 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,149 When we were at the early trade shows in the '80s, 559 00:33:46,232 --> 00:33:47,817 we'd go pick them up for dinner, 560 00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:50,862 and they'd come out of the same little hotel room and all that. 561 00:33:51,696 --> 00:33:54,490 We knew there was funny things goin' on there. 562 00:33:55,324 --> 00:33:57,201 This was back in the '70s, I think. 563 00:33:57,285 --> 00:33:59,704 No, '80s, honey. We weren't with Weber till '80. 564 00:33:59,787 --> 00:34:02,999 It was... Everybody was sleeping with everybody else. 565 00:34:03,082 --> 00:34:05,126 - Yeah, but okay. Let's get back to... - Okay? 566 00:34:05,209 --> 00:34:08,546 You know, you can cut that out, but that's the way it was. 567 00:34:10,590 --> 00:34:13,259 I remember it was Christmas night. 568 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,596 I heard some arguing in the bedroom. 569 00:34:17,096 --> 00:34:19,557 Jane was asking him, uh, 570 00:34:20,349 --> 00:34:23,227 "Are you having relations with that woman?" 571 00:34:24,395 --> 00:34:25,980 The truth came out. 572 00:34:37,950 --> 00:34:40,453 Bob and Jane, they worked it out. 573 00:34:42,038 --> 00:34:46,584 But there was a rift that came between everybody. 574 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,467 Several months later, 575 00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,264 when I was walkin' down the hallway, Annette was in the bathroom. 576 00:35:01,974 --> 00:35:04,393 I walked by, and the door was open, 577 00:35:04,477 --> 00:35:07,897 and she was in the dark, on the commode. 578 00:35:08,981 --> 00:35:10,983 She had one cigarette in her mouth, 579 00:35:11,067 --> 00:35:15,279 and, I think, two lit, sitting in the ashtray, just smoking away. 580 00:35:16,739 --> 00:35:18,324 She said, "Steve, 581 00:35:19,450 --> 00:35:21,911 you're the only one that loves me." 582 00:35:26,874 --> 00:35:28,626 And I was like, "Wow." 583 00:35:29,418 --> 00:35:30,503 Yeah. 584 00:35:35,007 --> 00:35:37,760 There was infighting that started to happen. 585 00:35:41,305 --> 00:35:45,017 When I first met Annette Kowalski, they seemed to be close friends. 586 00:35:45,101 --> 00:35:47,478 But eventually, she stopped coming. 587 00:35:47,562 --> 00:35:51,107 So, I don't know if that was kinda the beginning of the end 588 00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:52,733 as far as their relationship. 589 00:35:52,817 --> 00:35:55,611 I can just tell you that a lot of us relaxed. 590 00:35:55,695 --> 00:35:58,906 We just... You... I just couldn't relax around her. 591 00:35:59,115 --> 00:36:04,453 Um, and it just made it easier to interact with Bob with no filters. 592 00:36:10,376 --> 00:36:13,671 Hi. Today marks a sort of an anniversary for us. 593 00:36:13,754 --> 00:36:17,633 With this painting, we will have 100 Joy of Painting shows. 594 00:36:17,717 --> 00:36:18,885 Isn't that fantastic? 595 00:36:19,635 --> 00:36:22,805 I'd like to welcome you to the 10th Joy of Painting series. 596 00:36:22,889 --> 00:36:24,348 - The 12th. - The 13th. 597 00:36:24,432 --> 00:36:25,892 - The 15th. - The 17th. 598 00:36:25,975 --> 00:36:27,935 ...the 18th Joy of Painting series. 599 00:36:28,686 --> 00:36:30,313 With the completion of this series, 600 00:36:30,396 --> 00:36:33,608 there'll be over 230 Joy of Painting shows. Phew. 601 00:36:34,650 --> 00:36:37,737 MTV. It's all just fluffy white clouds. 602 00:36:39,113 --> 00:36:43,409 My next guest has been creating his magic for the past ten years on his own show, 603 00:36:43,492 --> 00:36:46,162 The Joy of Painting, which I watch all the time. 604 00:36:46,245 --> 00:36:48,080 Author of several books on the subject. 605 00:36:48,164 --> 00:36:50,791 His latest is called The Best of The Joy of Painting. 606 00:36:50,875 --> 00:36:54,337 Please welcome America's favorite art instructor, Bob Ross. 607 00:36:55,588 --> 00:36:58,257 - Hi, Bob. Pleasure to have you on. - Thank you very, very much. 608 00:36:58,341 --> 00:36:59,634 How did they find you? 609 00:36:59,717 --> 00:37:02,678 We wanted to do a painting show. We went to a PBS station, 610 00:37:02,762 --> 00:37:05,473 and, uh, they agreed to do one, and off we went. 611 00:37:06,307 --> 00:37:09,602 Most people can't paint, yet I find myself fascinated. 612 00:37:09,685 --> 00:37:11,270 I sit and watch you paint. 613 00:37:11,354 --> 00:37:14,273 I think it's because that magic really does happen in 30 minutes. 614 00:37:14,357 --> 00:37:17,318 There's no editing to these shows. What... what happens really happens. 615 00:37:17,401 --> 00:37:19,779 The sense people have is that as they watch you, 616 00:37:19,862 --> 00:37:22,657 they really can learn how to do this themselves. 617 00:37:22,740 --> 00:37:24,242 They really can do this. 618 00:37:24,325 --> 00:37:26,118 We're getting 200 to 300 letters a day now 619 00:37:26,244 --> 00:37:29,247 from people all over the United States and in foreign countries, 620 00:37:29,330 --> 00:37:30,414 and they're doing this. 621 00:37:30,498 --> 00:37:33,668 We had one lady that was 93 when she took her first class with us. 622 00:37:34,168 --> 00:37:36,504 I got a letter from her when she was 94. 623 00:37:36,587 --> 00:37:39,799 She just had her first one-man art show and started a whole new career. 624 00:37:50,017 --> 00:37:53,562 Made it look easy. Just took a few minutes, really, and there it is. 625 00:37:53,646 --> 00:37:55,606 Think you can teach anybody how to paint? 626 00:37:55,690 --> 00:37:57,775 If I can get you to pick up your palettes, 627 00:37:57,858 --> 00:38:00,027 and pull it through the dark color in one direction. 628 00:38:01,153 --> 00:38:02,446 Make it thin. 629 00:38:03,322 --> 00:38:06,117 All you do is just touch and give it a little push. 630 00:38:07,451 --> 00:38:08,619 Good. 631 00:38:08,703 --> 00:38:09,537 Very good. 632 00:38:09,620 --> 00:38:12,474 - Hey, Bob. Check this out. - That's great. You're doing wonderful. 633 00:38:12,498 --> 00:38:14,917 Hey, look what I'm doing here! I'm painting. 634 00:38:15,001 --> 00:38:17,044 All right! 635 00:38:22,341 --> 00:38:25,678 Recently, I had the opportunity to travel to New York City. 636 00:38:25,761 --> 00:38:28,055 They have what they call Kids Day in the park, 637 00:38:28,139 --> 00:38:29,932 and we were invited to come there 638 00:38:30,016 --> 00:38:34,228 and participate and meet all the fantastic people from New York. 639 00:38:38,274 --> 00:38:42,069 I was 12 years old at the time, and I had heard 640 00:38:42,153 --> 00:38:44,655 that Bob Ross was going to appear in Central Park. 641 00:38:44,739 --> 00:38:47,074 We ended up hopping on a train and going into Manhattan. 642 00:38:47,825 --> 00:38:49,160 We didn't even know where he was. 643 00:38:49,243 --> 00:38:52,038 We just started following crowds around Central Park, seeing, 644 00:38:52,121 --> 00:38:53,956 carrying paintings that we had brought. 645 00:38:54,874 --> 00:38:58,544 People came from all over to bring their paintings and show us 646 00:38:58,627 --> 00:39:01,255 and to share a day with us that was spectacular. 647 00:39:01,339 --> 00:39:03,382 Absolutely spectacular. 648 00:39:07,762 --> 00:39:10,097 He took the time to come meet me. 649 00:39:10,181 --> 00:39:11,766 I showed him some of my work. 650 00:39:12,975 --> 00:39:15,728 He signed the back of my painting. 651 00:39:17,646 --> 00:39:20,983 Everything you think Bob Ross would be is what he was when I met him. 652 00:39:26,405 --> 00:39:28,532 Central Park was eye-opening for me. 653 00:39:30,618 --> 00:39:33,245 And I was like, "Wow, this guy's really popular." 654 00:39:34,497 --> 00:39:37,333 I couldn't believe it, how many people knew Bob Ross. 655 00:39:37,833 --> 00:39:40,878 And no one ever would think he would be famous. 656 00:39:42,338 --> 00:39:45,174 C'mon. It's the man who does the painting. 657 00:39:45,257 --> 00:39:46,842 On the TV! 658 00:39:47,635 --> 00:39:50,304 The Joy of Painting has become the most successful art show 659 00:39:50,388 --> 00:39:52,473 in the history of television, 660 00:39:52,973 --> 00:39:57,478 and I'd like to thank you very, very much for your support. 661 00:39:59,021 --> 00:40:01,399 You've made an old man's dream come true. 662 00:40:03,651 --> 00:40:06,278 People love to have heroes, 663 00:40:07,905 --> 00:40:10,116 and that's what Bob became. 664 00:40:17,498 --> 00:40:20,918 There's no doubt, on the commercial side of it, 665 00:40:21,001 --> 00:40:24,296 Bob wanted to become bigger and more popular. 666 00:40:24,797 --> 00:40:26,924 He was interested in success, 667 00:40:27,508 --> 00:40:31,053 but, uh, not the way, the same way, the Kowalskis were. 668 00:40:32,555 --> 00:40:35,724 The whole Bob Ross Corporation thing 669 00:40:36,267 --> 00:40:41,480 was more about selling paint, canvas, and brushes 670 00:40:41,564 --> 00:40:46,235 than it was instructing people how to become painters. 671 00:40:46,944 --> 00:40:51,282 If you were to ask Bob Ross what was the price of a tube of paint 672 00:40:51,365 --> 00:40:55,119 or, you know, "How many kits are you selling?" 673 00:40:55,202 --> 00:40:57,663 he wouldn't know... not known any of that. 674 00:40:58,873 --> 00:41:01,792 Welcome back. We're gonna run the colors across the screen, 675 00:41:01,876 --> 00:41:03,627 in case you didn't get 'em last week, 676 00:41:03,711 --> 00:41:07,173 and just let you see all the colors that we use on each series here. 677 00:41:07,673 --> 00:41:12,553 When Bob got on TV, he had to find a paint distributor. 678 00:41:13,804 --> 00:41:17,308 Ross and the Kowalskis knew that our sponsor was Weber. 679 00:41:18,851 --> 00:41:21,312 Weber was a paint manufacturer, 680 00:41:21,812 --> 00:41:26,108 so they thought, "Okay. Let's go to Weber and have them make our products." 681 00:41:28,861 --> 00:41:30,529 He was really picky 682 00:41:30,613 --> 00:41:34,950 and wanted a product that was exact to what his qualifications were. 683 00:41:37,161 --> 00:41:41,165 The composition of the paint had to be just right 684 00:41:41,248 --> 00:41:43,542 for this technique to work well. 685 00:41:45,085 --> 00:41:47,505 But Walt wanted to make good money. 686 00:41:49,507 --> 00:41:51,842 More profit is what it's all about. 687 00:41:55,888 --> 00:41:58,807 He couldn't cut any corners 'cause Bob wouldn't let him. 688 00:41:59,725 --> 00:42:02,728 Bob said, "I'm not havin' products out there that are bad 689 00:42:02,811 --> 00:42:06,232 and, you know, have my reputation ruined for it." 690 00:42:06,732 --> 00:42:11,070 The material end of things really was quite important, 691 00:42:11,153 --> 00:42:14,698 but he wasn't into it for the money. 692 00:42:16,283 --> 00:42:20,538 There was many, many arguments about this over the phone. 693 00:42:21,413 --> 00:42:23,874 He wanted to teach people how to paint, 694 00:42:25,084 --> 00:42:27,419 but through the selling of products, 695 00:42:27,503 --> 00:42:32,049 they wanted to exploit that... for profit. 696 00:42:32,758 --> 00:42:35,177 This is your world on this piece of canvas, 697 00:42:35,261 --> 00:42:37,972 and you could do anything that your heart desires here. 698 00:42:38,055 --> 00:42:40,849 You have absolute and total power. 699 00:42:41,767 --> 00:42:44,186 This is the only place in the world I have any power. 700 00:42:44,270 --> 00:42:46,689 Here, I'm the dictator. Boy, I can do anything here. 701 00:42:46,772 --> 00:42:49,358 It's what's so fantastic about painting like this. 702 00:42:49,441 --> 00:42:51,026 You have freedom here. 703 00:42:53,028 --> 00:42:54,697 He called me and complained, 704 00:42:54,780 --> 00:43:00,703 and he really, uh, was not happy with... with the way things were going. 705 00:43:03,289 --> 00:43:06,000 Things just kinda went downhill from there. 706 00:43:10,337 --> 00:43:12,298 Hey, there's my wife, Jane. 707 00:43:12,381 --> 00:43:14,174 - Hi, Jane. - Hi. 708 00:43:14,258 --> 00:43:16,135 And that's Annette with her, my partner. 709 00:43:16,844 --> 00:43:18,929 And I would like to... 710 00:43:19,013 --> 00:43:20,514 I'd like to dedicate this painting 711 00:43:20,598 --> 00:43:25,394 to a couple of people that have really made The Joy of Painting possible. 712 00:43:26,687 --> 00:43:31,150 There's been several that I'd... I'd really like to... to mention by name. 713 00:43:31,900 --> 00:43:34,278 First of all, uh, my wife, Jane. 714 00:43:34,361 --> 00:43:38,574 She's stood behind us and... and kept this thing going. 715 00:43:39,617 --> 00:43:42,745 And it takes a special lady to live with a crazy man. 716 00:43:51,086 --> 00:43:54,089 I remember walking into the back bedroom, 717 00:43:54,590 --> 00:43:59,845 and, uh, for probably only the second time in my life, 718 00:43:59,928 --> 00:44:01,263 I saw my dad crying. 719 00:44:03,807 --> 00:44:05,434 And, uh... 720 00:44:07,478 --> 00:44:08,478 uh... 721 00:44:09,396 --> 00:44:12,399 in the fetal position on the ground. 722 00:44:18,864 --> 00:44:21,533 Jane found out that she had cancer. 723 00:44:24,912 --> 00:44:29,124 It wasn't long after that that Jane was gone. 724 00:44:30,084 --> 00:44:32,920 I would like to take just a second and thank you. 725 00:44:33,003 --> 00:44:36,799 I happened to mention that I had lost my wife. 726 00:44:36,882 --> 00:44:40,302 I have received hundreds and hundreds of cards 727 00:44:40,386 --> 00:44:45,432 from people all over the country, expressing their sympathy and support. 728 00:44:45,933 --> 00:44:49,603 From the bottom of my heart, thank you for sharing my grief 729 00:44:50,104 --> 00:44:54,692 and... for making my wife a very special person in your life too. 730 00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:04,910 Jane's death hit him really hard. 731 00:45:06,161 --> 00:45:08,163 I can remember him sayin', um, 732 00:45:08,831 --> 00:45:11,625 "My whole life went to hell in a handbasket." 733 00:45:14,586 --> 00:45:16,626 Sometimes when you're not in such a good mood, 734 00:45:16,672 --> 00:45:18,590 paintings have a tendency to get a little darker 735 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,969 because paintings reflect your mood. 736 00:45:22,970 --> 00:45:26,014 Sometimes you're not even conscious of it. It happens. 737 00:45:31,061 --> 00:45:33,313 You have light on light, you have nothing. 738 00:45:33,397 --> 00:45:36,775 If you have dark on dark, you basically have nothing. 739 00:45:37,901 --> 00:45:40,654 There we are. You know, it's like in life. If... 740 00:45:40,738 --> 00:45:44,658 You gotta have sadness once in a while, so you know when the good times come. 741 00:45:45,367 --> 00:45:46,869 I'm waitin' on the good times now. 742 00:46:02,926 --> 00:46:05,512 Two or three weeks after Jane died, 743 00:46:05,596 --> 00:46:11,226 the doctor said my dad had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. 744 00:46:22,112 --> 00:46:25,365 And then we wash our brushes, as you know, with odorless thinner. 745 00:46:26,158 --> 00:46:27,534 Shake it off. 746 00:46:27,618 --> 00:46:29,787 Beat the devil out of it. 747 00:46:29,870 --> 00:46:34,833 That wet-on-wet technique does require quite a bit of paint thinner. 748 00:46:36,752 --> 00:46:41,089 Almost every episode, he'd be smackin' that brush around. 749 00:46:41,173 --> 00:46:42,257 Shake him off. 750 00:46:43,258 --> 00:46:47,054 All the effervescence of the paint thinner 751 00:46:47,137 --> 00:46:49,556 would float up right into his nostrils. 752 00:46:50,682 --> 00:46:52,518 And cover the whole room. 753 00:46:52,601 --> 00:46:56,939 Even while he was doing it, I had reservations about it. 754 00:46:57,898 --> 00:47:00,442 Add the least little touch of paint thinner to your brush 755 00:47:00,526 --> 00:47:02,027 and then go through the paint. 756 00:47:02,110 --> 00:47:03,612 Now, I always wondered 757 00:47:03,695 --> 00:47:07,616 if maybe that didn't have something to do with the lymphoma. 758 00:47:08,367 --> 00:47:13,330 Uh, I'm not a doctor, but it's... it's speculation. 759 00:47:14,081 --> 00:47:16,625 We'll wash 'em both while we got it goin'. 760 00:47:18,418 --> 00:47:19,503 There. 761 00:47:20,420 --> 00:47:23,465 He decided, "Well, if I don't have long left to live, 762 00:47:23,549 --> 00:47:26,093 I'm going to do as much as I can." 763 00:47:27,636 --> 00:47:29,346 It was "the show must go on." 764 00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:34,393 Hello. I'm Bob Ross, and I'd like to welcome you to the 26th... 765 00:47:34,476 --> 00:47:37,271 - To the 28th. - To the 30th Joy of Painting series. 766 00:47:37,354 --> 00:47:40,315 And we just work all the way across the canvas. 767 00:47:40,399 --> 00:47:41,859 Maybe in our world... 768 00:47:41,942 --> 00:47:44,820 There live some little trees, far back here in the distance. 769 00:47:45,946 --> 00:47:49,700 When I look back on it, Bob was really in a work mode. 770 00:47:50,742 --> 00:47:53,328 He wanted to get at least three shows a day in. 771 00:47:53,829 --> 00:47:56,123 And, uh, some days, he got a lot more than that. 772 00:47:56,206 --> 00:47:57,666 Just have some fun. 773 00:47:58,166 --> 00:48:01,712 This is a day you can just be crazy. Just spin things around. 774 00:48:03,672 --> 00:48:06,049 When you see all those later series, 775 00:48:06,133 --> 00:48:09,761 he was literally suffering from cancer. 776 00:48:11,305 --> 00:48:14,308 He was very private about everything. 777 00:48:14,933 --> 00:48:17,144 That was just what Bob wanted. 778 00:48:17,227 --> 00:48:19,438 A little practice with this, and you'll be amazed 779 00:48:19,521 --> 00:48:21,189 at what you can accomplish. 780 00:48:21,273 --> 00:48:23,775 Every day is like a gift. 781 00:48:23,859 --> 00:48:26,320 Something new happens on the canvas. 782 00:48:27,070 --> 00:48:28,572 Here's a happy little tree. 783 00:48:28,655 --> 00:48:31,116 Maybe there's a happy little cloud floatin' around. 784 00:48:31,199 --> 00:48:32,618 Just little happy duders. 785 00:48:33,368 --> 00:48:36,455 This show is playing in numerous foreign countries now. 786 00:48:36,538 --> 00:48:38,957 Often wonder how they translate "duders." 787 00:48:47,883 --> 00:48:51,219 The people all over the world, there's a common denominator. 788 00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:54,014 Everyone loves to paint. 789 00:49:00,479 --> 00:49:04,358 We knew that right at the moment when he was becoming 790 00:49:04,441 --> 00:49:06,193 the best he ever could, 791 00:49:06,276 --> 00:49:08,862 he was kinda being shut down. 792 00:49:10,614 --> 00:49:12,824 All right, let's wash the old brush. 793 00:49:13,909 --> 00:49:17,704 I think, partially, he used the work to keep his mind off of it. 794 00:49:19,498 --> 00:49:22,042 Every day, I get letters from people all over the country 795 00:49:22,125 --> 00:49:25,212 who have never picked up a paintbrush in their life, 796 00:49:25,295 --> 00:49:27,756 and they've tried this, and it works, 797 00:49:27,839 --> 00:49:30,092 and they've experienced a whole new world. 798 00:49:30,926 --> 00:49:32,219 A whole new world. 799 00:49:33,053 --> 00:49:35,222 I've known so many depressed people 800 00:49:35,305 --> 00:49:39,059 that came out of their depression through painting and drawing. 801 00:49:40,227 --> 00:49:45,357 It's important to express yourself through that kind of symbolism 802 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,359 and get out those emotions. 803 00:49:56,576 --> 00:49:59,788 I'll never forget when I got the news that Bob had cancer. 804 00:49:59,871 --> 00:50:03,500 My program manager called me into his office, and he closed the door, 805 00:50:03,583 --> 00:50:06,044 and I believe he told me before the crew. 806 00:50:09,256 --> 00:50:10,674 And he said Bob had cancer, 807 00:50:10,757 --> 00:50:14,302 and I was, like, shocked because he hadn't shared that he was sick. 808 00:50:16,722 --> 00:50:19,474 He didn't want me thinkin' about that while doing the show. 809 00:50:19,975 --> 00:50:20,975 There. 810 00:50:23,061 --> 00:50:25,439 This is really the highlight of my whole life, 811 00:50:25,522 --> 00:50:29,359 is to make these shows and to join you in your home or wherever you happen to be 812 00:50:29,443 --> 00:50:30,902 and paint along with you. 813 00:50:34,489 --> 00:50:37,826 I really enjoyed being with you for the past 13 shows. 814 00:50:37,909 --> 00:50:41,663 The old clock on the wall tells me it's about time to bring this show 815 00:50:41,747 --> 00:50:43,540 and this series to a close. 816 00:50:55,427 --> 00:50:59,556 During that time, I think the Kowalskis became worried. 817 00:51:00,140 --> 00:51:02,726 If Bob dies, their business dies. 818 00:51:08,607 --> 00:51:11,068 Hi, I'm Annette Kowalski, 819 00:51:11,151 --> 00:51:16,782 and Bob Ross has invited me to share with you The Joy of Painting Flowers. 820 00:51:17,741 --> 00:51:20,243 At our art retreat in Florida one day, 821 00:51:20,327 --> 00:51:22,954 a lady throws a book on my table, 822 00:51:23,455 --> 00:51:25,874 and it's Annette Kowalski's flower book. 823 00:51:27,042 --> 00:51:29,711 And it says Annette has worked so hard 824 00:51:29,795 --> 00:51:35,217 for so many years developing this new style of painting. 825 00:51:36,218 --> 00:51:37,969 I just about had a heart attack. 826 00:51:39,221 --> 00:51:42,224 Annette took my same diagrams 827 00:51:42,307 --> 00:51:45,477 and almost copied 'em completely. 828 00:51:51,650 --> 00:51:57,572 She uses almost the exact wording that we use. 829 00:51:58,865 --> 00:52:03,245 In Kathwren's book, she's sitting in this peacock chair. 830 00:52:03,745 --> 00:52:07,249 Annette is sitting in the same peacock chair 831 00:52:07,332 --> 00:52:09,209 in the same pose. 832 00:52:09,292 --> 00:52:11,837 Are you ready to start painting? I hope so. 833 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,090 We're going to angle strokes back. 834 00:52:15,173 --> 00:52:17,551 You wiggle your color down the middle. 835 00:52:17,634 --> 00:52:19,761 Angle the stroke towards the back. 836 00:52:19,845 --> 00:52:22,597 Annette was doin' those floral paintings. 837 00:52:22,681 --> 00:52:25,142 I said, "Those look like Jenkins paintings." 838 00:52:26,101 --> 00:52:28,395 They're so eerily close, 839 00:52:28,478 --> 00:52:31,857 and it's kind of funny that the brushes all look about the same. 840 00:52:32,858 --> 00:52:36,027 Since the early '80s, we had designed badger hair brushes 841 00:52:36,111 --> 00:52:38,280 for our signature line, 842 00:52:38,363 --> 00:52:41,950 and then the vice president of Weber says, 843 00:52:42,033 --> 00:52:44,911 "I'm sorry. You can't have these badger hair brushes anymore." 844 00:52:44,995 --> 00:52:47,289 "They're on the endangered species list." 845 00:52:47,372 --> 00:52:51,960 The big excitement around here is Bob's new floral brushes. 846 00:52:52,919 --> 00:52:54,588 But guess what? 847 00:52:54,671 --> 00:52:57,340 When Annette came out with her product line, 848 00:52:57,424 --> 00:53:00,760 they had a beautiful line of badger hair brushes. 849 00:53:01,761 --> 00:53:05,599 Bob was around Annette... uh, so much. 850 00:53:05,682 --> 00:53:07,100 How could he not know? 851 00:53:07,184 --> 00:53:10,061 We're gonna have Annette paint a little flower for you, 852 00:53:10,145 --> 00:53:12,981 and I'm just gonna turn the show over to her and I'll see you later. 853 00:53:13,064 --> 00:53:14,065 Thank you. 854 00:53:14,149 --> 00:53:16,109 But what is he gonna do about it? 855 00:53:16,193 --> 00:53:20,822 She just wanted to control the whole art market. 856 00:53:21,448 --> 00:53:23,200 Our sales went down, 857 00:53:23,283 --> 00:53:26,703 and the stations stopped our shows. 858 00:53:27,204 --> 00:53:30,498 She did it so that there would be no competition from us. 859 00:53:31,499 --> 00:53:33,293 She wanted us gone. 860 00:53:47,766 --> 00:53:50,143 Dad was getting a little bit sicker, 861 00:53:50,227 --> 00:53:53,730 and we all knew that we were gonna have to take care of him. 862 00:53:54,231 --> 00:53:57,150 That really changed a lot of my thinking. 863 00:53:57,234 --> 00:53:59,694 You know, "Why is he doing the things he did?" 864 00:53:59,778 --> 00:54:02,906 "Why did he want what he did for me?" 865 00:54:02,989 --> 00:54:06,618 Uh, "Why was he pushing me so hard?" 866 00:54:07,118 --> 00:54:09,746 It's a great, great privilege to me 867 00:54:09,829 --> 00:54:12,624 to be able to introduce the pride and joy of my life. 868 00:54:12,707 --> 00:54:14,334 This is my son, Steve. 869 00:54:14,834 --> 00:54:16,795 Steve, certainly glad to have you with us, my son. 870 00:54:16,878 --> 00:54:19,005 - Thanks, Dad. - Tell you what. Do a super painting, 871 00:54:19,089 --> 00:54:20,924 - and I'll see you later. - Okay. 872 00:54:21,591 --> 00:54:24,636 My dad wanted me to do a lot of shows, 873 00:54:25,512 --> 00:54:27,472 and I didn't want to. 874 00:54:29,266 --> 00:54:31,935 Told me, "I'm tryin' to do the best for you." 875 00:54:32,435 --> 00:54:35,355 He wanted me to be more successful than him. 876 00:54:35,438 --> 00:54:39,067 Heck, one time, he even told me that on the painting show, 877 00:54:39,150 --> 00:54:43,947 he didn't paint as well as he could because he wanted to make it easier for me 878 00:54:44,030 --> 00:54:46,658 in the future when I took over. 879 00:54:47,784 --> 00:54:49,369 And I thought, "What?" 880 00:54:49,452 --> 00:54:52,706 Got one young feller that out-paints me when it comes to mountains. 881 00:54:52,789 --> 00:54:57,252 That's my son, Steve. You might have saw him on some of the other shows. 882 00:54:57,335 --> 00:55:00,338 He's just one of the most dynamite mountain painters 883 00:55:00,839 --> 00:55:01,965 I've ever seen. 884 00:55:02,048 --> 00:55:03,758 We didn't get him on this series. 885 00:55:03,842 --> 00:55:07,137 Maybe next series, I'll get him back in here. 886 00:55:07,637 --> 00:55:10,932 There was a power struggle between us, I guess you would say. 887 00:55:13,018 --> 00:55:17,022 There was a little bit of a fight that broke out between us. 888 00:55:18,898 --> 00:55:24,654 I wanted to go off and do my own thing, and he wanted me to do what he did. 889 00:55:27,741 --> 00:55:32,329 It was probably a few years that we didn't talk much at all. 890 00:55:32,412 --> 00:55:37,292 I'm still a little bit angry inside with myself over that. 891 00:55:39,502 --> 00:55:42,047 If your parents are tellin' you to do something, 892 00:55:42,130 --> 00:55:44,799 it's not 'cause they're trying to be mean. 893 00:55:44,883 --> 00:55:46,509 It's because they care. 894 00:55:47,177 --> 00:55:51,431 You know, they love you, and they want the best for you. 895 00:55:57,187 --> 00:55:59,856 When he was getting weaker and weaker, 896 00:56:01,149 --> 00:56:04,861 we started to do a lot more talking again. 897 00:56:08,823 --> 00:56:11,993 We sat down and had a whole lot of discussions 898 00:56:12,077 --> 00:56:15,538 about stuff that he'd never told me before. 899 00:56:18,166 --> 00:56:19,542 In the beginning... 900 00:56:21,586 --> 00:56:23,755 there was a voting system set up. 901 00:56:26,758 --> 00:56:28,176 When Jane died, 902 00:56:29,094 --> 00:56:31,137 he lost a vote. 903 00:56:33,723 --> 00:56:37,435 Suddenly, Bob's opinion didn't really matter anymore. 904 00:56:37,936 --> 00:56:42,023 It was more or less like, "We're gonna do what we wanna do, 905 00:56:42,107 --> 00:56:44,984 and you're gonna do what we tell you to do." 906 00:56:47,362 --> 00:56:49,781 After Jane had passed away, 907 00:56:49,864 --> 00:56:53,284 I know that there were many hard feelings 908 00:56:53,368 --> 00:56:57,997 from not giving Bob the latitude to be Bob. 909 00:56:58,873 --> 00:57:01,918 He'd decided he was definitely not going to do 910 00:57:02,001 --> 00:57:05,296 another series with the Kowalskis. 911 00:57:10,218 --> 00:57:13,304 ♪ So step right in This is where it begins ♪ 912 00:57:13,388 --> 00:57:15,849 ♪ The Adventures of Elmer and Friends ♪ 913 00:57:16,891 --> 00:57:17,725 Hi, kids. 914 00:57:17,809 --> 00:57:19,602 Bob! 915 00:57:19,686 --> 00:57:21,146 How is everyone today? 916 00:57:21,229 --> 00:57:22,480 - I'm all right. - Okay. 917 00:57:22,981 --> 00:57:27,110 My father had always wanted to do a TV show for children. 918 00:57:27,610 --> 00:57:31,781 He wanted to bring the art world even to the young. 919 00:57:34,409 --> 00:57:37,954 By the time a kid gets to be 11 or 12 years old, 920 00:57:38,037 --> 00:57:42,709 if he gets some negativity concerning his artistic endeavors, 921 00:57:43,418 --> 00:57:46,254 uh, oftentimes, he gives it up. 922 00:57:47,046 --> 00:57:52,594 Bob felt that there was a built-in audience for children. 923 00:57:53,595 --> 00:57:56,806 I was just reading a good old-fashioned storybook. 924 00:57:56,890 --> 00:57:59,225 I know he was excited about doin' it 925 00:57:59,309 --> 00:58:00,768 and wanted to do it so bad, 926 00:58:00,852 --> 00:58:02,687 but then that's when he became really ill. 927 00:58:05,982 --> 00:58:07,734 He was wearin' a wig. 928 00:58:09,486 --> 00:58:13,114 The Kowalskis got angry that Bob looked sick. 929 00:58:13,615 --> 00:58:15,575 But he insisted, you know, 930 00:58:15,658 --> 00:58:18,578 that he would be able to do the television show. 931 00:58:19,496 --> 00:58:22,081 Walt and Annette were totally against it. 932 00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,253 They both thought of Bob as something that they had packaged 933 00:58:27,337 --> 00:58:30,089 and that they had made from the beginning. 934 00:58:31,591 --> 00:58:34,344 They didn't want people to know he was sick. 935 00:58:46,397 --> 00:58:50,360 When my dad was, uh, just about on his deathbed, 936 00:58:51,069 --> 00:58:54,906 my dad and I went over to the Kowalskis' house. 937 00:58:57,951 --> 00:59:00,870 We went back to the back bedroom, 938 00:59:01,371 --> 00:59:03,748 and I laid Bob down in bed. 939 00:59:06,167 --> 00:59:08,461 Annette started talking to me 940 00:59:08,545 --> 00:59:11,798 while the door was closed, so Bob couldn't hear. 941 00:59:14,092 --> 00:59:18,555 And she said, "You need to go in there and get Bob to sign this." 942 00:59:21,724 --> 00:59:26,896 She said, "It's a contract for a memorial that we wanna build to Bob." 943 00:59:29,774 --> 00:59:35,238 It looked to me like they were trying to get Bob to sign his name over to them. 944 00:59:37,657 --> 00:59:42,328 I refused, and Annette became very angry and frustrated. 945 00:59:44,998 --> 00:59:48,501 He didn't want to sign away the full rights to his name. 946 00:59:49,877 --> 00:59:52,714 But that didn't stop them from trying to get it. 947 00:59:55,341 --> 00:59:57,594 They knew he was gettin' closer to death, 948 00:59:59,554 --> 01:00:01,598 and as he did, they got more desperate. 949 01:00:03,141 --> 01:00:04,934 They were having big arguments 950 01:00:05,018 --> 01:00:08,605 over who's going to possess his name after he died. 951 01:00:10,607 --> 01:00:13,443 This went on daily for weeks. 952 01:00:15,987 --> 01:00:18,740 I like painting because it gives me total freedom, 953 01:00:19,324 --> 01:00:22,952 and it's the only place in my whole life that I've had total freedom. 954 01:00:23,703 --> 01:00:28,249 Bob had decided that the way he was gonna circumvent problems 955 01:00:28,333 --> 01:00:29,792 with the Kowalskis 956 01:00:30,543 --> 01:00:35,089 was by marrying a nurse that he had known for a few months 957 01:00:35,173 --> 01:00:37,008 while he was in the hospital. 958 01:00:38,718 --> 01:00:42,597 He was trying to make some preparations for his half brother 959 01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:47,393 and his son, Steve, to continue on. 960 01:00:50,063 --> 01:00:53,608 For him to yell, he had to be extremely angry. 961 01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,653 That's the most fun part of this technique. 962 01:00:56,736 --> 01:00:59,364 Take out all your frustrations and hostilities. 963 01:01:01,157 --> 01:01:02,909 You could hear him screaming, 964 01:01:02,992 --> 01:01:04,827 "I'm not giving you my name." 965 01:01:04,911 --> 01:01:07,121 "You're not getting my name." 966 01:01:21,469 --> 01:01:27,433 The last phone conversation I had with Bob was in June of 1995. 967 01:01:29,227 --> 01:01:30,812 He knew what was happenin'. 968 01:01:31,312 --> 01:01:36,734 He said he wanted nothing to do with BRI or The Joy of Painting. 969 01:01:37,610 --> 01:01:42,657 He said, "They're trying to steal my name on my deathbed." 970 01:01:44,367 --> 01:01:46,536 And then I talked to him a bit longer and said, 971 01:01:46,619 --> 01:01:48,746 "Well, I'll come down and visit you." 972 01:01:49,247 --> 01:01:52,667 And he said, "No, I don't want you to come down and see me like this." 973 01:01:52,750 --> 01:01:55,420 "I weigh a whole 85 pounds." 974 01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:59,006 "I just want you to remember me as you saw me last." 975 01:02:19,277 --> 01:02:20,987 He... 976 01:02:22,613 --> 01:02:24,282 He didn't have any hair. 977 01:02:30,371 --> 01:02:34,208 And he was skinny, so skinny. 978 01:02:35,084 --> 01:02:37,545 And we had to wet his lips. 979 01:02:38,045 --> 01:02:39,422 He couldn't drink. 980 01:02:39,505 --> 01:02:42,842 His throat was... locked up. 981 01:02:51,851 --> 01:02:54,729 I was watching my hero disintegrate. 982 01:02:59,108 --> 01:03:02,236 We tried so hard to keep him comfortable... 983 01:03:04,447 --> 01:03:07,283 ...but, he was in so much pain. 984 01:03:12,997 --> 01:03:14,540 I had to hold him up. 985 01:03:20,797 --> 01:03:21,964 And he said, 986 01:03:23,341 --> 01:03:24,801 "You're so strong." 987 01:04:13,307 --> 01:04:17,645 After my dad passed, Annette said something to me I'll never forget. 988 01:04:17,728 --> 01:04:20,773 She said, uh, "Aren't you glad it's over?" 989 01:04:23,317 --> 01:04:27,822 And I thought, "What do you mean? Am I glad my dad is dead?" 990 01:04:28,948 --> 01:04:32,827 I... I didn't understand what she was talkin' about 991 01:04:33,327 --> 01:04:36,247 because every second that I could've had... 992 01:04:37,915 --> 01:04:40,167 Every second... 993 01:04:42,295 --> 01:04:43,462 would've been... 994 01:04:44,797 --> 01:04:46,674 I mean, I would've given everything. 995 01:04:52,388 --> 01:04:57,476 The Kowalskis did not show up at his funeral, at Bob's funeral. 996 01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,563 Even worse, they tried to keep the fact 997 01:05:00,646 --> 01:05:03,733 that the funeral was even happening a secret. 998 01:05:06,193 --> 01:05:08,362 I can't even remember who called me. 999 01:05:09,030 --> 01:05:13,784 They said, "Bob passed," and "Don't tell anybody," 1000 01:05:13,868 --> 01:05:16,370 and "Get on the next flight to Florida." 1001 01:05:18,706 --> 01:05:19,874 It was crazy. 1002 01:05:21,250 --> 01:05:24,211 There was only, like, 30 or 40 people there, total. 1003 01:05:26,839 --> 01:05:31,928 I found out that he'd passed away by reading it in Newsweek. 1004 01:05:32,428 --> 01:05:35,556 I was always a little bitter towards the company 1005 01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,517 for not having gotten in touch with me. 1006 01:05:38,601 --> 01:05:41,395 I would've loved to have attended his funeral. 1007 01:05:43,898 --> 01:05:46,484 Uh, but that... that didn't happen. 1008 01:05:48,736 --> 01:05:52,198 They wanted people, I think, to believe that he was still alive. 1009 01:05:52,281 --> 01:05:53,824 And many people did. 1010 01:05:53,908 --> 01:05:57,787 Even to this day, I've had to tell people, you know, 1011 01:05:57,870 --> 01:05:59,622 that he's... he's gone. 1012 01:06:16,097 --> 01:06:21,018 After he died, things changed permanently for me 1013 01:06:21,644 --> 01:06:24,105 in the way I thought about everything. 1014 01:06:24,188 --> 01:06:26,816 The way I thought about life and death 1015 01:06:26,899 --> 01:06:29,527 and, uh, pretty much everything in between. 1016 01:06:33,698 --> 01:06:37,451 I think I had a small nervous breakdown. 1017 01:06:42,623 --> 01:06:44,625 After Bob's passing, 1018 01:06:45,459 --> 01:06:47,044 I kinda wondered, 1019 01:06:47,586 --> 01:06:49,005 "Now what?" 1020 01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:04,145 I started working for Bob Ross Inc. in 1995. 1021 01:07:04,645 --> 01:07:09,817 After he died, they asked me if I could introduce Bob Ross in Europe. 1022 01:07:11,027 --> 01:07:15,239 I was able to sell it in the public television of Germany. 1023 01:07:15,823 --> 01:07:20,578 I would collect the orders for paints and brushes, books. 1024 01:07:21,746 --> 01:07:24,832 Walt Kowalski was my prime contact, 1025 01:07:25,541 --> 01:07:30,963 but when we talked about the business, it was only very limited to my department. 1026 01:07:32,256 --> 01:07:34,759 In the beginning, I thought that, you know, 1027 01:07:34,842 --> 01:07:39,305 Bob died, and the Kowalskis were very, you know, sad about this. 1028 01:07:40,056 --> 01:07:44,935 But I started to notice, uh, changes at the Bob Ross Company. 1029 01:07:46,187 --> 01:07:51,567 They were becoming much more demanding on the Certified Ross Instructors. 1030 01:07:52,151 --> 01:07:53,778 Ross students told me 1031 01:07:53,861 --> 01:07:58,407 it was like walking on eggs in those certification classes. 1032 01:07:59,575 --> 01:08:04,163 The first day, their management shoots a contract in front of 'em. 1033 01:08:04,789 --> 01:08:10,586 The students were all asked to sign what were called "guidelines," 1034 01:08:10,669 --> 01:08:13,756 which really were a contract. 1035 01:08:15,633 --> 01:08:19,011 You cannot promote any other artist. 1036 01:08:19,512 --> 01:08:24,600 You cannot use any other products except for the Ross products. 1037 01:08:27,061 --> 01:08:29,438 They had a suggestion box. 1038 01:08:29,522 --> 01:08:31,357 I called it the spy box. 1039 01:08:32,566 --> 01:08:38,906 You were supposed to call if any of your students or other teachers 1040 01:08:38,989 --> 01:08:44,078 had, uh, gone against the guidelines in some regard. 1041 01:08:45,454 --> 01:08:48,541 One particular friend of ours, the first day, 1042 01:08:48,624 --> 01:08:50,709 she gets tapped on the shoulder. 1043 01:08:51,210 --> 01:08:53,754 They said, "We want you to pack your paints and brushes." 1044 01:08:53,838 --> 01:08:56,173 "Don't say a word to anyone and leave." 1045 01:08:58,717 --> 01:09:01,554 She was mentioning to the other students, 1046 01:09:01,637 --> 01:09:03,556 "I really want to go to Jenkins's class." 1047 01:09:05,724 --> 01:09:09,270 Now, this was reported in that little suggestion box. 1048 01:09:22,199 --> 01:09:23,909 They were in complete control, 1049 01:09:23,993 --> 01:09:27,329 and they could act in the name of Bob Ross, 1050 01:09:27,413 --> 01:09:29,915 where Bob Ross never was involved. 1051 01:09:40,176 --> 01:09:43,554 One time, I was walking around in the warehouse. 1052 01:09:44,597 --> 01:09:47,850 There was a big table with a lot of paintings all over the place. 1053 01:09:48,559 --> 01:09:54,106 And I saw a guy painting, uh, with a script liner brush, 1054 01:09:54,607 --> 01:09:58,068 signing the signature of Bob Ross on the painting. 1055 01:09:58,694 --> 01:10:00,070 I thought, "Hey, wait a minute." 1056 01:10:00,154 --> 01:10:03,365 "This guy died, and now somebody's signing a Bob Ross painting." 1057 01:10:03,449 --> 01:10:04,491 "What's going on here?" 1058 01:10:06,035 --> 01:10:08,078 A lot of people are able to paint 1059 01:10:08,162 --> 01:10:12,333 almost exact copies of Bob Ross, and you don't see the difference. 1060 01:10:12,416 --> 01:10:15,211 I don't see the difference. Nobody can see the difference. 1061 01:10:16,253 --> 01:10:18,589 The difference, probably, is the signature, 1062 01:10:19,089 --> 01:10:22,718 but even then, you don't know if it is, uh, valid. 1063 01:10:25,054 --> 01:10:26,972 Walt, is that a Bob Ross over there? 1064 01:10:27,056 --> 01:10:28,974 That is a Bob Ross painting. 1065 01:10:29,642 --> 01:10:31,518 Because somebody told me that it was. 1066 01:10:32,394 --> 01:10:36,190 I can pretty much recognize a Bob Ross painting. 1067 01:10:36,273 --> 01:10:38,275 What do you think about the idea 1068 01:10:38,359 --> 01:10:40,236 that the only person that is qualified 1069 01:10:40,319 --> 01:10:43,948 to authenticate a Bob Ross painting is, in fact, Annette Kowalski? 1070 01:10:44,031 --> 01:10:45,658 It's bullshit, BS. 1071 01:10:45,741 --> 01:10:47,493 Sorry, baloney. 1072 01:10:47,993 --> 01:10:51,997 When I saw that guy, that was, for me, one of the triggers to say, 1073 01:10:52,081 --> 01:10:54,124 "There's something very wrong here." 1074 01:11:01,757 --> 01:11:03,592 The Bob Ross Company knew 1075 01:11:03,676 --> 01:11:06,720 that they were the largest client of Weber company. 1076 01:11:08,347 --> 01:11:14,019 Walt told me, "We have the right to audit the Martin F. Weber company." 1077 01:11:14,770 --> 01:11:17,398 And they audited the books of Martin F. Weber, 1078 01:11:17,481 --> 01:11:19,984 and they found some stuff which was not correct. 1079 01:11:20,776 --> 01:11:22,861 The management of BRI said, 1080 01:11:22,945 --> 01:11:26,115 "The only thing you have to do is kick out Jenkins." 1081 01:11:26,198 --> 01:11:28,117 "Destroy his line of painting, 1082 01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:30,577 don't support his TV show anymore, 1083 01:11:31,078 --> 01:11:33,205 and basically kick him out." 1084 01:11:34,248 --> 01:11:37,042 We were under contract with Weber, 16 years. 1085 01:11:37,126 --> 01:11:39,628 Super loyal to Dennis Kapp, 1086 01:11:39,712 --> 01:11:42,423 even though they stopped booking our workshops. 1087 01:11:42,506 --> 01:11:46,427 We finally said to Dennis, "We know what the Kowalskis are doing." 1088 01:11:47,511 --> 01:11:50,055 He said, "You know, it's just business." 1089 01:11:50,139 --> 01:11:52,016 "It's nothing personal." 1090 01:11:53,017 --> 01:11:55,227 It sure was personal to us. 1091 01:11:56,562 --> 01:11:59,857 We were such pioneers in the hobby craft industry. 1092 01:11:59,940 --> 01:12:06,238 We live, breathe, eat, sleep art 24/7. 1093 01:12:06,905 --> 01:12:09,992 We woke up one morning, and we were out of a job. 1094 01:12:12,745 --> 01:12:15,497 Being under contract with Weber 1095 01:12:15,998 --> 01:12:20,627 was the biggest, worst thing that could've happened to us. 1096 01:12:23,964 --> 01:12:27,509 The Kowalskis had no desire whatsoever 1097 01:12:28,093 --> 01:12:30,262 to spread happiness and feel-goods. 1098 01:12:32,056 --> 01:12:34,183 They only were interested in money. 1099 01:12:36,435 --> 01:12:40,773 There's so many Bob Ross products that are made now. 1100 01:12:41,523 --> 01:12:42,941 Coffee cups, 1101 01:12:43,442 --> 01:12:45,736 T-shirts, pajamas, 1102 01:12:45,819 --> 01:12:48,113 blankets, lunch boxes, 1103 01:12:48,197 --> 01:12:49,740 jigsaw puzzles, 1104 01:12:49,823 --> 01:12:51,492 ink pens. 1105 01:12:51,575 --> 01:12:52,951 Do you want me to keep goin'? 1106 01:12:53,035 --> 01:12:55,371 Your favorite painter, Bob Ross, Chia Pet. 1107 01:12:55,454 --> 01:12:57,206 - Fantastic. - Just spread the seeds. 1108 01:12:57,289 --> 01:12:59,541 As the interest has risen, 1109 01:12:59,666 --> 01:13:02,795 we've been very happy to supply people with Bob Ross products. 1110 01:13:02,878 --> 01:13:07,132 Like, so that they can smile every day as they drink out of their Bob Ross mug. 1111 01:13:07,633 --> 01:13:12,971 Everything what the Bob Ross Company communicated to the world was, 1112 01:13:13,055 --> 01:13:14,765 "Bob Ross this, Bob Ross that." 1113 01:13:15,557 --> 01:13:17,643 Bob died. Bob was not involved at all. 1114 01:13:22,731 --> 01:13:24,650 They care about control. 1115 01:13:24,733 --> 01:13:27,778 They wanna own the whole dang kit and caboodle. 1116 01:13:28,904 --> 01:13:31,990 I mean, I've had enough of it, to be honest with you. 1117 01:13:35,828 --> 01:13:37,579 Good morning. We're on the record 1118 01:13:37,663 --> 01:13:42,626 in the matter of RSR Art, LLC v. Bob Ross Inc. 1119 01:13:42,709 --> 01:13:45,421 This is the video deposition of Robert Steven Ross. 1120 01:13:45,504 --> 01:13:48,465 This is the video deposition of Dana Jester. 1121 01:13:48,966 --> 01:13:53,345 I'd had decided to put my name on paint and brushes, 1122 01:13:53,846 --> 01:13:58,100 but even using my own name was scary for me 1123 01:13:58,684 --> 01:14:03,230 because they believe they are the full owners of the name Ross. 1124 01:14:03,939 --> 01:14:06,984 I knew I would immediately be sued. 1125 01:14:08,193 --> 01:14:10,529 Our lawyer told us it's better to sue them. 1126 01:14:10,612 --> 01:14:14,241 It's cheaper than to have them sue you later 1127 01:14:14,741 --> 01:14:16,452 because they like to sue people. 1128 01:14:17,661 --> 01:14:22,082 Okay, let's, um, talk about um, my client, Bob Ross Inc., 1129 01:14:22,166 --> 01:14:24,042 which I will refer to as BRI. 1130 01:14:24,126 --> 01:14:27,796 - An abbreviation you're familiar with? - That's fine. That's fine. 1131 01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:31,717 Was there more than one person who came up with the idea of creating RSR? 1132 01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,678 - It's a group effort. - M'kay. And who was the group? 1133 01:14:34,761 --> 01:14:38,807 That would be Lawrence, Steve, and myself. 1134 01:14:38,891 --> 01:14:41,143 - And Lawrence is Lawrence Kapp? - Yes. 1135 01:14:47,566 --> 01:14:50,861 My father owned Martin F. Weber Company, 1136 01:14:51,361 --> 01:14:55,199 oldest manufacturer of fine artist materials in the United States. 1137 01:14:55,282 --> 01:14:59,244 This is a video-recorded deposition of Mr. Lawrence Kapp. 1138 01:15:00,245 --> 01:15:03,999 For how long after you joined Martin F. Weber in 2001 1139 01:15:04,082 --> 01:15:10,672 did Martin F. Weber continue to produce Bob Ross licensed products for BRI? 1140 01:15:11,256 --> 01:15:15,302 Till... 2016. 1141 01:15:16,261 --> 01:15:19,556 Did you, uh, have any, uh, emotions or feelings... 1142 01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:21,225 - Well, uh... - ...about the decision 1143 01:15:21,308 --> 01:15:23,727 to let the contract expire when you learned about it? 1144 01:15:24,228 --> 01:15:26,772 I was very concerned. 1145 01:15:27,814 --> 01:15:31,985 Uh, I came up with the possibility of doing 1146 01:15:32,069 --> 01:15:35,822 Robert Stephen Ross brushes and paint. 1147 01:15:36,406 --> 01:15:39,576 Steve and I talked in July of 2016. 1148 01:15:40,661 --> 01:15:45,457 Lawrence approached him and said they could produce the paints, so... 1149 01:15:45,541 --> 01:15:49,378 I was told that, uh... uh, 1150 01:15:49,461 --> 01:15:52,047 you can't do something like that, 1151 01:15:52,548 --> 01:15:55,008 you know, because of his last name, 1152 01:15:55,092 --> 01:15:58,345 unless he owns the rights to his dad's name 1153 01:15:58,428 --> 01:16:00,556 and the rights to publicity. 1154 01:16:01,056 --> 01:16:04,685 The Bob Ross Company, the year after Bob passed, 1155 01:16:05,310 --> 01:16:10,691 sued both Bob's third wife, Lynda Ross, and Jimmie Cox, 1156 01:16:11,733 --> 01:16:15,696 going after, primarily, the paintings and physical objects. 1157 01:16:17,239 --> 01:16:19,408 Brushes that Bob Ross used, 1158 01:16:19,491 --> 01:16:22,035 palette that Bob used on TV. 1159 01:16:22,953 --> 01:16:25,789 They wanted all the paintings hanging in his house. 1160 01:16:26,915 --> 01:16:29,676 How would you describe your relationship with your uncle Jim? 1161 01:16:31,336 --> 01:16:32,337 Shaky. 1162 01:16:35,674 --> 01:16:37,259 Has it always been that way? 1163 01:16:40,470 --> 01:16:44,182 Yes, I'd say it has, come to think of it. 1164 01:16:45,309 --> 01:16:48,228 Never really thought about it before now, but yeah. 1165 01:16:54,985 --> 01:16:57,487 Steve was trying to figure out 1166 01:16:57,571 --> 01:17:01,241 if he owned the rights to his dad's name. 1167 01:17:01,742 --> 01:17:04,453 And in digging, he said, 1168 01:17:04,536 --> 01:17:07,998 "Oh my gosh. You're not gonna believe what I just found." 1169 01:17:10,751 --> 01:17:15,505 It was the first amendment to the Bob Ross non-revocable trust. 1170 01:17:16,757 --> 01:17:23,305 It literally said that Uncle Jim and I owned almost all the IP rights. 1171 01:17:24,681 --> 01:17:28,101 Everything my father didn't sign over to BRI. 1172 01:17:28,935 --> 01:17:32,689 He set up the trust that way because I was young, 1173 01:17:32,773 --> 01:17:37,235 and he knew that Jim was probably more responsible than I was 1174 01:17:37,319 --> 01:17:41,406 and it would be smart for him to control things. 1175 01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:48,997 Did your uncle Jim ever tell you about the settlement that he entered into 1176 01:17:49,081 --> 01:17:53,877 with BRI to... to settle this dispute? 1177 01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:56,588 Absolutely not. No. 1178 01:17:57,923 --> 01:18:00,634 It's correct, is it not, that in the settlement agreement 1179 01:18:00,717 --> 01:18:03,220 from 1997 that we just reviewed, 1180 01:18:03,303 --> 01:18:05,263 Jimmie Cox, on behalf of the trust, 1181 01:18:05,347 --> 01:18:08,934 assigns all rights of incidents and ownership, 1182 01:18:09,017 --> 01:18:15,273 creative works, or other assets of BRI of any kind of character to BRI, correct? 1183 01:18:16,066 --> 01:18:19,945 That is what this document purports. 1184 01:18:20,028 --> 01:18:21,863 What is... what is all this? 1185 01:18:22,948 --> 01:18:26,660 My own uncle had signed over those rights to them, 1186 01:18:27,786 --> 01:18:31,748 totally against my father's wishes. 1187 01:18:47,848 --> 01:18:51,727 When the Bob Ross company, in '96, 1188 01:18:52,519 --> 01:18:56,231 sued both the estate as well as the trust, 1189 01:18:56,732 --> 01:19:02,738 Jimmie, to make the lawsuit go away, signs the papers BRI put in front of him. 1190 01:19:02,821 --> 01:19:05,282 Lynda does the same, apparently, 1191 01:19:06,074 --> 01:19:10,078 signing over all rights to BRI. 1192 01:19:11,496 --> 01:19:15,292 In this settlement agreement was also mentioned some tapes. 1193 01:19:15,792 --> 01:19:19,296 My father didn't discuss a lot of business things 1194 01:19:19,379 --> 01:19:23,508 with us because, you know, the Kowalskis didn't want that, 1195 01:19:24,926 --> 01:19:28,054 but he was recording them on the phone. 1196 01:19:28,889 --> 01:19:31,933 They literally taught him how to do this, 1197 01:19:32,517 --> 01:19:34,144 and he knew that, in the future, 1198 01:19:34,227 --> 01:19:37,689 there was going to be a war with the Kowalskis. 1199 01:19:40,567 --> 01:19:44,654 All of those tapes were part of what they sued his wife 1200 01:19:44,738 --> 01:19:48,116 that married him two months before he died. 1201 01:19:49,284 --> 01:19:51,495 They probably disposed of those 1202 01:19:51,578 --> 01:19:53,705 so that nobody could discover 1203 01:19:53,789 --> 01:19:56,291 exactly what was said. 1204 01:20:24,653 --> 01:20:28,323 They literally wanted to steal Dad's name. 1205 01:20:29,324 --> 01:20:30,324 And did. 1206 01:20:37,791 --> 01:20:40,794 I was still hopeful I could file appeal. 1207 01:20:42,629 --> 01:20:45,715 What we ran into was a lack of funding. 1208 01:20:47,175 --> 01:20:49,511 My attorney said 90 grand 1209 01:20:49,594 --> 01:20:53,098 should get us through the appeal and win the case. 1210 01:20:53,181 --> 01:20:57,394 I was unable to come up with the 90 grand in funding, 1211 01:20:57,477 --> 01:21:00,397 and it did not go the way I expected. 1212 01:21:01,565 --> 01:21:05,151 The appeal portion really added a dollar figure onto it 1213 01:21:05,235 --> 01:21:07,320 we weren't capable of handling. 1214 01:21:20,208 --> 01:21:23,879 Steve went back to Florida and went into seclusion 1215 01:21:24,379 --> 01:21:27,591 and didn't respond to phone calls. 1216 01:21:31,094 --> 01:21:34,306 But finally, I called him and woke him up. 1217 01:21:34,806 --> 01:21:36,308 Just shook him a little bit. 1218 01:21:38,602 --> 01:21:40,186 I said, "Don't waste your life." 1219 01:21:40,687 --> 01:21:43,857 "I know that's not what your dad would want you to do." 1220 01:22:00,540 --> 01:22:02,584 Once I started to paint again... 1221 01:22:07,964 --> 01:22:12,093 ...I realized I can take these emotions that I had 1222 01:22:12,594 --> 01:22:14,596 and turn them into something. 1223 01:22:19,017 --> 01:22:22,103 The Kowalskis made millions of dollars 1224 01:22:22,187 --> 01:22:26,650 from, I would say, exploiting his name and image. 1225 01:22:31,529 --> 01:22:35,492 But he brought so much happiness to people. 1226 01:22:38,745 --> 01:22:41,081 And that's what's important. 1227 01:22:44,709 --> 01:22:47,921 It's unbelievable what you can do with a big ol' two-inch brush 1228 01:22:48,004 --> 01:22:50,632 if you'll devote just a little bit of time to practice. 1229 01:22:52,550 --> 01:22:54,469 And it doesn't take a great deal. 1230 01:22:54,970 --> 01:22:58,056 We get letters from people every day that have never painted, 1231 01:22:58,765 --> 01:23:01,226 who are doing some of the most beautiful things. 1232 01:23:04,020 --> 01:23:07,357 They've learnt to create their own masterpieces. 1233 01:23:09,317 --> 01:23:11,444 It's what makes all this worthwhile. 1234 01:23:12,487 --> 01:23:14,239 The fact that people are doing this 1235 01:23:14,322 --> 01:23:17,158 and enjoying a tremendous amount of success. 1236 01:23:21,329 --> 01:23:22,329 All right. 1237 01:23:24,749 --> 01:23:27,419 To me, the first step of accomplishing anything 1238 01:23:27,502 --> 01:23:30,797 is to believe that you can do it, and I know you can do it. 1239 01:23:38,972 --> 01:23:42,225 I was in a deep depression which brewed for about ten years. 1240 01:23:43,935 --> 01:23:46,187 I tried to commit suicide, like, three or four times. 1241 01:23:46,271 --> 01:23:48,440 I tried to... I tried to commit suicide. 1242 01:23:50,025 --> 01:23:54,487 I was sitting in my living room one day, actually debating a way 1243 01:23:54,571 --> 01:23:58,742 that I could get through this and do this, and Bob Ross appeared on TV. 1244 01:23:59,993 --> 01:24:04,164 All you have to do is create a vision in your mind 1245 01:24:04,664 --> 01:24:06,750 and believe that you can do it. 1246 01:24:08,168 --> 01:24:11,838 Because we can do anything in this life that we believe we can do. 1247 01:24:11,921 --> 01:24:16,134 If you believe strong enough, anything is possible. 1248 01:24:16,217 --> 01:24:17,844 Anything is possible. 1249 01:24:19,262 --> 01:24:22,098 For somebody like Bob Ross to come on 1250 01:24:22,599 --> 01:24:25,060 and make that personal connection with you. 1251 01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:26,560 He cares. 1252 01:24:28,646 --> 01:24:30,732 He saved my life. He really did. 1253 01:24:34,986 --> 01:24:37,614 I had to go to the emergency room 1254 01:24:37,697 --> 01:24:42,285 because I was havin' problems with my pregnancy. 1255 01:24:43,620 --> 01:24:46,081 My kidneys had stopped functioning. 1256 01:24:46,164 --> 01:24:48,416 My liver had stopped functioning. 1257 01:24:50,001 --> 01:24:53,755 And the only thing that they could do 1258 01:24:54,255 --> 01:24:57,675 was to terminate my pregnancy. 1259 01:24:58,635 --> 01:25:01,971 And... that was a hard... 1260 01:25:02,597 --> 01:25:04,974 It was hard to accept. 1261 01:25:07,143 --> 01:25:11,689 The first time I turned on the television, there was Bob Ross. 1262 01:25:12,190 --> 01:25:15,819 When doing the painting, you look at it and you decide what makes you happy. 1263 01:25:15,902 --> 01:25:17,320 This is your world right here. 1264 01:25:17,403 --> 01:25:18,988 And there's no right or wrong 1265 01:25:19,072 --> 01:25:21,407 as long as it makes you happy and doesn't hurt anybody. 1266 01:25:23,201 --> 01:25:27,080 Bob brought the life back into my mind 1267 01:25:27,163 --> 01:25:28,665 and my heart, 1268 01:25:29,582 --> 01:25:33,878 and the joy that I never knew I could feel by painting. 1269 01:25:37,924 --> 01:25:41,761 That was the whole idea behind Bob Ross and his painting 1270 01:25:41,845 --> 01:25:47,058 is that he was going to teach people that they could be valuable. 1271 01:25:47,559 --> 01:25:50,937 They could be important... in this world. 1272 01:25:53,022 --> 01:25:55,608 Beautiful, Steve. Absolutely beautiful. 1273 01:25:56,609 --> 01:25:58,945 Why, this son of a gun is quite a painter. 1274 01:25:59,445 --> 01:26:03,366 I better watch out, or he'll be on TV, and I'll be home by myself. 1275 01:26:05,285 --> 01:26:09,914 I don't think my father ever knew the impact that he was having, 1276 01:26:09,998 --> 01:26:14,294 uh, even towards the end, even once it got huge. 1277 01:26:14,794 --> 01:26:19,549 He never really absorbed how much he was loved. 1278 01:26:31,019 --> 01:26:36,107 It's hard to describe exactly what Bob's appeal was. 1279 01:26:36,691 --> 01:26:40,278 It had to do with his painting abilities, 1280 01:26:40,778 --> 01:26:43,406 it had to do with his voice 1281 01:26:43,907 --> 01:26:47,994 and his personal way of talking to people. 1282 01:26:48,786 --> 01:26:55,335 He just had a tremendous effect on everybody that got to know him. 1283 01:27:08,014 --> 01:27:11,684 The memory of Bob lives on through all of us, 1284 01:27:11,768 --> 01:27:13,228 and his legacy lives on 1285 01:27:13,311 --> 01:27:15,605 through all of his fans. 1286 01:27:16,397 --> 01:27:17,982 He told me before he died 1287 01:27:18,066 --> 01:27:23,154 that, uh, he actually wanted people to remember him 1288 01:27:23,238 --> 01:27:25,281 but not to be sad. 1289 01:27:31,996 --> 01:27:33,790 We all miss you, Dad. 1290 01:27:34,457 --> 01:27:36,000 We all miss you. 1291 01:27:38,169 --> 01:27:40,171 I asked him one time, 1292 01:27:40,255 --> 01:27:42,799 "What are you trying to prove to the world?" 1293 01:27:42,882 --> 01:27:44,300 And he said, 1294 01:27:44,384 --> 01:27:49,806 "What we do here and now, people will remember forever." 1295 01:27:49,889 --> 01:27:53,226 Libraries across the country are filling each week 1296 01:27:53,309 --> 01:27:55,186 with folks yearning to create. 1297 01:27:55,311 --> 01:27:56,854 We painted like Bob Ross 1298 01:27:56,938 --> 01:28:00,275 while watching Bob Ross, dressed as Bob Ross. 1299 01:28:00,358 --> 01:28:02,777 - Do you guys know Bob Ross? - Yeah! 1300 01:28:02,860 --> 01:28:05,363 He's almost like a... like a friend. 1301 01:28:05,780 --> 01:28:07,573 Okay, watch this. 1302 01:28:07,657 --> 01:28:08,700 Just like him. 1303 01:28:08,783 --> 01:28:11,202 Is Bob Ross an art therapist? 1304 01:28:11,286 --> 01:28:14,414 Because watching him is incredibly relaxing. 1305 01:28:14,497 --> 01:28:17,125 Hello there. Welcome back. I'm glad you could join me today. 1306 01:28:17,709 --> 01:28:20,253 And we're gonna put a happy little bush right down over here. 1307 01:28:22,005 --> 01:28:23,256 I'm Bob Ross. 1308 01:28:26,634 --> 01:28:29,971 Just stickin' with the same old colors that we used before. 1309 01:28:30,555 --> 01:28:34,892 Instead of lifting the knife off the canvas, jiggle it as you go down. 1310 01:28:34,976 --> 01:28:37,562 And then tilt it as you go. 1311 01:28:38,563 --> 01:28:40,940 It's hard to tell people their faults 1312 01:28:41,524 --> 01:28:43,568 and maybe even harder to accept 1313 01:28:43,651 --> 01:28:46,404 that you have made a happy accident. 1314 01:28:49,198 --> 01:28:54,329 A lot of times, I've wondered if it's not your mistakes 1315 01:28:54,412 --> 01:28:57,123 that teach you a lot more than your successes. 1316 01:28:57,206 --> 01:28:59,667 A success, you just move on to the next thing. 1317 01:28:59,751 --> 01:29:01,753 But when you make a mistake 1318 01:29:01,836 --> 01:29:04,464 or have a "happy accident," as Bob called it, 1319 01:29:04,547 --> 01:29:10,595 uh, suddenly you learn all kinds of new ways to correct it, 1320 01:29:10,678 --> 01:29:15,892 and through that learning process, you really start developing in new ways. 1321 01:29:18,102 --> 01:29:20,229 Well Steve, what do you think of this painting? 1322 01:29:20,313 --> 01:29:22,065 Well, I think it's pretty good. 1323 01:29:22,148 --> 01:29:23,274 That's very nice. 1324 01:29:23,358 --> 01:29:25,943 And I hope that everyone has enjoyed 1325 01:29:26,027 --> 01:29:28,446 watching you do a beautiful little painting here. 1326 01:29:29,155 --> 01:29:31,449 So on behalf of all of us here at the station, 1327 01:29:31,949 --> 01:29:35,578 we'd like to wish each and every one of you happy painting. 1328 01:29:36,079 --> 01:29:37,121 God bless. 1329 01:29:37,205 --> 01:29:40,750 On behalf of my son Steve, thanks for watchin'. 1330 01:29:41,250 --> 01:29:42,585 See you next time. 111087

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