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I love you, Anne.
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I'm in love with you.
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I always have been.
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- I'm not as strong as you think.
- Well, I am.
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Well, I am, obviously, but...
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It's just beautiful
to see that, you know,
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to see real love.
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There's a different kind
of connection and I don't...
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I can't describe it, but it's just like,
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"Ah, yeah. That is what I am".
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The drama series Gentleman Jack
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is based on the real
life of Anne Lister,
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a 19th century Yorkshire landowner.
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I love and only love the fairer sex.
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Her private life was
discovered in secret diaries
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00:00:53,780 --> 00:00:58,083
revealing her loves,
lusts and heartbreaks.
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Anne Lister has just been immortalised.
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How are you feeling about that?
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Anne Lister is an
inspiration to be visible,
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00:01:08,499 --> 00:01:09,848
to be who you are.
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She was very modern, really.
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The show, partly inspired
by Jill Liddington's book,
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Female Fortune, has introduced
Anne's story to a global audience.
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I've come all the way
from North America.
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This is actually my
seventh trip to Halifax.
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- Here we go, rehearsal and action.
- Ah, here we are.
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I think people didn't
know they were looking for
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a protagonist like
that, a hero like that.
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And I think that that's
why it's resonated
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with so many people, because there's
no-one like her on our screens.
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When you write a show,
you hope that you'll get
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good viewing figures,
you hope people like it,
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but the response
globally that we've had,
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this huge emotional response,
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you don't expect that
when you write telly,
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you just think you're going
to entertain people, so it's...
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... it's very good, and it's
all because of Anne Lister.
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Across the world,
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thousands of women have
come together in fan groups
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00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,260
and forums to share their stories.
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... and in some cases,
discover their true sexuality.
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The Gentleman Jack
community is like a family.
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Got my little tattoo with the top hat.
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I felt loved and valid.
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I realised that I was a lesbian.
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With women of all ages being emboldened
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by the portrayal of Anne Lister,
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this phenomenon has become known
as "The Gentleman Jack Effect".
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So I've wanted to tell
you for ages and ages...
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- Synced and corrected by chamallow -
- www.addic7ed.com -
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As I left she hung upon me
52
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and cried and sobbed
aloud at parting, saying,
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"I hope we shall meet under
happier circumstances".
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"Well", said I to
myself as I walked off,
55
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"a pretty scene we have had".
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00:03:05,032 --> 00:03:09,403
In the 1800s, the expectation
was for women to marry
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a man and have children.
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There was simply no concept of
women having their own sexuality.
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So Anne Lister spent her life
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writing about her forbidden
loves in her secret journals.
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It was therapeutic for her to put down
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her heartbreaks and love affairs.
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I mean, when she can
write something like,
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"I am neither man nor woman in society,
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how shall I manage?"
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You know, that is an existential dilemma
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for her in that day and age.
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00:03:42,157 --> 00:03:43,835
In the 1930s,
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when Anne's ancestral
home became a museum,
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her hidden journals were found
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and donated to the local library.
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Over the next 50 years,
historians studied them,
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00:03:54,566 --> 00:03:57,739
but Anne's sexual
exploits remained secret.
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00:03:59,536 --> 00:04:04,178
Until local historian Helena
Whitbread revealed all.
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00:04:04,404 --> 00:04:06,892
I wanted to try my hand
at freelance writing.
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00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,585
I looked round for something local
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and I don't know why,
but I just thought,
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00:04:12,619 --> 00:04:15,539
"What about this woman
called Anne Lister?"
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I got on the bus and I went
down to the local archives.
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And there was this young man there
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and I said to him,
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"I believe Anne Lister has some
letters in the archives here".
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00:04:28,674 --> 00:04:30,008
And then he said to me
84
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these few words that
set me off, he said,
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"Did you know she kept a journal?"
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And I said, "These journals
are written in code".
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And I thought, "What would a woman
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living 200 years ago
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need to write in a secret code?"
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And that triggered off
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intellectual curiosity, basically.
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I thought, "She's got
something to hide".
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It was a little while
before I twigged on.
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I remember seeing a
little phrase and it said,
95
00:05:03,497 --> 00:05:05,597
"I think I will have to go to Russia
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00:05:05,672 --> 00:05:07,782
and find myself a wife".
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00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:11,695
And I thought, "So this
is what she's hiding".
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Out of the shadows of
history, you might say,
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00:05:16,046 --> 00:05:21,054
came these wonderfully
depicted people in her life,
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women that she was in love with.
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And slowly, as I worked through,
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all these wonderful characters emerged.
103
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So thunder...
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thunder storm last...
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Oh, that's an N, so
that's going to be night.
106
00:05:37,899 --> 00:05:40,564
So here, she's switching into code,
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which is where things get fun.
108
00:05:43,078 --> 00:05:46,095
Volunteer code-breakers
all over the world
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are helping the West Yorkshire Archive
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to continue to unlock Anne's secrets.
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Oh, "Very good kiss".
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So I got some of the... "Lairy
good iss", some of the sounds,
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but missed a couple of the letters.
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Isabel is one of the code-breakers
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00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:04,446
and a long time fan of Anne Lister's.
116
00:06:04,613 --> 00:06:08,931
It was about five years ago
that I picked up the diaries
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and I thought they were so fascinating.
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00:06:11,684 --> 00:06:14,004
Jane Austen, I specialised
in at university,
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and it's incredible to imagine that
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00:06:16,627 --> 00:06:18,915
Anne Lister was walking
around at the same time.
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She seems in some ways very modern.
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I've just finished this whole bit here.
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"There's a big thunderstorm".
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And then she switches into the code.
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And she says, "In the midst of all this,
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we drew close together, made love
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and had one of the most
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delightfully long tender
kisses we've ever had".
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I just love the switch. All
of the sort of quite boring,
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"Oh, yeah, there's a thunderstorm".
And then a quick quickie,
131
00:06:40,585 --> 00:06:42,214
and then straight back out!
132
00:06:42,247 --> 00:06:43,736
It's fascinating, really.
133
00:06:56,485 --> 00:07:00,171
So in May 2019, the BBC launched
a series called Gentleman Jack.
134
00:07:00,614 --> 00:07:02,729
And this is where my troubles began.
135
00:07:04,127 --> 00:07:08,789
I saw my life growing up came
vividly back and it hit me,
136
00:07:08,854 --> 00:07:10,414
"I'm not straight".
137
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I cried, I wept, shook, and
at the point even laughed
138
00:07:16,306 --> 00:07:18,800
at the absurdity of it all,
139
00:07:19,075 --> 00:07:22,897
as despite my tender 63 years of age,
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I have no idea how to
navigate my way through this.
141
00:07:31,537 --> 00:07:34,215
I wanted to get married,
I wanted to have kids.
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I was happy because I was on
the road that everybody's on,
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so I'm normal.
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I'm OK.
145
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I always wanted a white
suit like Suzi Quatro.
146
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But then,
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I want to live the dream
that everybody dreams about.
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So I went for a proper wedding dress.
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Here starts the single parent journey,
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00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:03,163
new chapter,
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different hairdo,
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no fuss.
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00:08:07,891 --> 00:08:11,720
Just get on with life and
managing these two kids.
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Hiding, operating out of
this false kind of person,
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and you can lose track of
the real self, who you are.
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00:08:21,053 --> 00:08:24,588
To know that, because you're trying
so busy to be like everybody else.
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00:08:25,300 --> 00:08:27,718
And maybe that was the
relief when I discovered this,
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because it was just
like, "Ah, that's why.
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That's why ", you know, " you
couldn't feel what other people felt.
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That's... "Ah, that makes
sense". And it was like a relief.
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And for that second, it was like,
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"Oh, my gosh, that's
brilliant. Now I know.
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00:08:42,026 --> 00:08:43,994
And that makes sense. "Now my life, now,
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yeah, that fits with me".
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But then you have to navigate
the rest of your life.
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They say, "Well, you know,
if you don't want to come out,
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you don't have to". Do
I really need to tell?
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00:08:57,104 --> 00:09:00,893
But I don't want to keep
secrets from my kids.
169
00:09:03,052 --> 00:09:04,351
It's just not me.
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00:09:24,844 --> 00:09:27,125
I'm a 33-year-old lesbian,
171
00:09:27,275 --> 00:09:31,348
I'm mixed race Arabic and
English and live with my mother.
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00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:32,746
I work as a lawyer,
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00:09:32,787 --> 00:09:35,898
but I'm also a carer for her
in the hours I have spare.
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00:09:36,767 --> 00:09:40,368
We watched Gentleman Jack
together, and I absolutely loved it.
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00:09:40,824 --> 00:09:43,147
I found strength within
myself through watching
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how Anne struggled and held her own.
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00:09:45,667 --> 00:09:48,705
However, my mum didn't
like her dress or manner.
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She was in denial for a
long time about my sexuality,
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and still might be inside.
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Finding the love of my life
is an ongoing and slow process.
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Anne's given me the
drive to keep looking.
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00:10:01,824 --> 00:10:03,961
I hope that you enjoyed my story.
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00:10:05,902 --> 00:10:09,384
Sami is one of the many
thousands of women worldwide
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who've embraced fan groups
celebrating Anne Lister.
185
00:10:13,882 --> 00:10:16,490
She manages full-time work as a lawyer
186
00:10:16,516 --> 00:10:18,880
with caring for her mum, Hazel.
187
00:10:19,336 --> 00:10:21,773
When I fall, she's
there, she picks me up.
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00:10:23,734 --> 00:10:25,991
She takes me everywhere I want to go.
189
00:10:26,825 --> 00:10:28,497
She became a barrister,
190
00:10:28,931 --> 00:10:31,467
and now she's studying
to be a solicitor.
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00:10:31,509 --> 00:10:33,583
I think that's his call
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to have his breakfast.
193
00:10:37,743 --> 00:10:39,581
I'm daughter and carer,
194
00:10:39,658 --> 00:10:41,573
and my job is quite demanding,
195
00:10:41,589 --> 00:10:45,015
because I'm juggling quite a
lot of things at the same time.
196
00:10:45,222 --> 00:10:48,338
I've found it's been
quite stressful recently,
197
00:10:48,359 --> 00:10:50,910
'cos her health is not getting better.
198
00:10:51,464 --> 00:10:53,669
That was my call to the bar.
199
00:10:54,295 --> 00:10:58,700
Less than 50% of people that join
actually make it through and pass.
200
00:10:59,005 --> 00:11:01,945
So I am in an elite bunch there.
201
00:11:02,116 --> 00:11:03,777
This is the thing with me and my mum,
202
00:11:03,844 --> 00:11:06,535
she thinks I should be
married to a Mark Darcy,
203
00:11:06,582 --> 00:11:10,034
living the Bridget Jones
lifestyle and living in a mansion.
204
00:11:10,101 --> 00:11:13,553
But it's not quite worked out
like that, for many reasons!
205
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:19,178
Sami came out to her mum ten
years ago, when she was 23.
206
00:11:19,618 --> 00:11:23,619
At first, I thought she was
joking with me, as she does.
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00:11:24,277 --> 00:11:25,762
Always joking.
208
00:11:27,134 --> 00:11:29,882
And she said, "No, Mum, it's the truth".
209
00:11:30,420 --> 00:11:32,443
I was stunned more than anything,
210
00:11:33,830 --> 00:11:36,578
and I didn't know how
to talk to her about it.
211
00:11:38,001 --> 00:11:41,194
I think that might've been one
time I've not been there for her,
212
00:11:42,291 --> 00:11:45,557
because I just didn't
know really what to say.
213
00:11:47,637 --> 00:11:49,500
And it was never mentioned again.
214
00:11:50,514 --> 00:11:52,103
Initially, she cried.
215
00:11:52,212 --> 00:11:54,593
And then this sort of anger, rage,
216
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,498
and then the hatred came out.
217
00:11:58,009 --> 00:12:01,920
It was the hurtful comments,
like, "You weren't born like this".
218
00:12:02,770 --> 00:12:06,439
It has scarred me, as it
was like a different person.
219
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,901
I do feel I've had to,
like, go back in the closet.
220
00:12:10,957 --> 00:12:13,187
I've brought people
round I've been seeing,
221
00:12:13,219 --> 00:12:15,056
but just introduced them as friends,
222
00:12:15,087 --> 00:12:17,627
just to try and keep her at bay.
223
00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:24,045
Seeing how Anne Lister faced
her society back in, like,
224
00:12:24,076 --> 00:12:25,706
the 1830s
225
00:12:25,794 --> 00:12:29,437
and how different she was,
was just energising for me.
226
00:12:29,536 --> 00:12:32,512
She didn't let it stop
her from being herself,
227
00:12:32,931 --> 00:12:34,313
and I think
228
00:12:34,556 --> 00:12:37,604
that, to me, is very touching,
229
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,364
and that's the inspiring part.
230
00:12:39,892 --> 00:12:42,604
So, different set of circumstances,
231
00:12:42,620 --> 00:12:45,073
I don't have my own estate!
232
00:12:45,822 --> 00:12:51,050
But, you know, still face challenges
that are quite difficult, really.
233
00:12:57,554 --> 00:13:01,959
Anne Lister singlehandedly ran
her family estate near Halifax.
234
00:13:02,041 --> 00:13:04,459
She was also an intrepid traveller.
235
00:13:05,194 --> 00:13:08,232
In 1840, during a trip to Russia,
236
00:13:08,258 --> 00:13:11,420
Anne died from a fever, aged 49.
237
00:13:12,611 --> 00:13:15,840
She's buried here, in Halifax Minster.
238
00:13:16,497 --> 00:13:20,022
The exact location of
her grave is now unknown,
239
00:13:20,084 --> 00:13:24,059
as her tombstone went missing
some years after her death.
240
00:13:24,980 --> 00:13:27,624
She was an amazing woman.
241
00:13:28,292 --> 00:13:32,447
She is a person who
people in my community
242
00:13:32,825 --> 00:13:34,642
see as a real hero.
243
00:13:34,699 --> 00:13:36,101
She's someone we can look up to.
244
00:13:36,106 --> 00:13:38,875
She was filled with courage,
she was filled with determination
245
00:13:38,895 --> 00:13:42,969
she wanted to live her own life
in the way that she firmly believed
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00:13:43,041 --> 00:13:45,090
that God had created her to live.
247
00:13:45,898 --> 00:13:49,749
To find a place where she was
interred here in the Minster
248
00:13:49,919 --> 00:13:54,303
is something that feels
spiritually important to me and to
249
00:13:54,547 --> 00:13:56,115
thousands of women.
250
00:13:56,291 --> 00:13:59,432
And even more so to have
a place that we can come to
251
00:13:59,634 --> 00:14:01,150
and know that she's here.
252
00:14:02,257 --> 00:14:06,076
In March 2000, during
renovations to the Minster,
253
00:14:06,138 --> 00:14:10,378
Anne's shattered tombstone was
found under a raised platform
254
00:14:10,398 --> 00:14:12,923
by stonemason Andrew Barraclough.
255
00:14:13,399 --> 00:14:15,138
They've had a big hammer
256
00:14:15,283 --> 00:14:17,518
and they've struck that,
and that's what that...
257
00:14:17,663 --> 00:14:21,374
to form that type of a break.
258
00:14:21,529 --> 00:14:24,174
- That was a heck of a hit.
- That's a... Yeah, a big hammer.
259
00:14:24,220 --> 00:14:25,566
- Yeah.
- And the same there.
260
00:14:25,597 --> 00:14:27,072
So they've hit there
261
00:14:27,698 --> 00:14:29,364
- and they've hit there.
- Yeah.
262
00:14:29,980 --> 00:14:33,220
- Her stone has been desecrated.
- Yeah.
263
00:14:33,261 --> 00:14:35,559
- Call it what you want.
- Yeah, literally.
264
00:14:35,585 --> 00:14:37,851
- Within living memory,
- Yeah.
265
00:14:37,882 --> 00:14:40,506
- which is really, really sad.
- Yeah.
266
00:14:41,746 --> 00:14:43,976
She was a very prominent
person in Halifax.
267
00:14:44,033 --> 00:14:46,553
- There's no two ways about it, you know.
- Yeah.
268
00:14:46,579 --> 00:14:48,032
Anybody that was anybody...
269
00:14:48,033 --> 00:14:51,697
- Got it.
- ... knew that she was who she was.
270
00:14:51,723 --> 00:14:53,875
And I feel she's not being
271
00:14:54,801 --> 00:14:57,844
- treated as she should have been treated.
- Yeah.
272
00:14:58,150 --> 00:14:59,923
I say I've no axe to grind.
273
00:14:59,954 --> 00:15:01,004
- Right.
- I just,
274
00:15:01,056 --> 00:15:03,394
as a person, I feel that
275
00:15:03,881 --> 00:15:06,339
she's not been treated in the right way,
276
00:15:06,345 --> 00:15:08,192
not been shown any respect.
277
00:15:09,889 --> 00:15:11,001
Are you going home?
278
00:15:11,777 --> 00:15:13,651
What the hell are you doing?
279
00:15:16,979 --> 00:15:20,027
I asked you if you're going home.
280
00:15:21,528 --> 00:15:24,395
Some people think it's
time you went home.
281
00:15:24,902 --> 00:15:26,460
Keep still!
282
00:15:26,501 --> 00:15:29,264
- You dirty fucking Jack!
- Damn you!
283
00:15:30,294 --> 00:15:34,880
"Jack" was a slur used against
lesbians in the 19th century.
284
00:15:38,446 --> 00:15:41,572
Anne Lister was dubbed
"Gentleman" or "Jack"
285
00:15:41,779 --> 00:15:44,450
by people who disapproved
of her lifestyle
286
00:15:44,811 --> 00:15:46,910
and nonconforming dress sense.
287
00:15:47,638 --> 00:15:50,175
Leave Miss Walker alone.
288
00:15:55,744 --> 00:15:57,989
I think that stood out to me,
289
00:15:58,124 --> 00:15:59,982
not for, like, "I love that scene". No.
290
00:16:00,033 --> 00:16:03,811
It's because that's how
I felt when I was younger.
291
00:16:03,889 --> 00:16:06,926
I felt like around
every corner was someone
292
00:16:06,958 --> 00:16:08,376
who was just going to hate me.
293
00:16:08,448 --> 00:16:11,196
I have this lump in
my throat knowing that
294
00:16:11,346 --> 00:16:15,370
there's a chance of her
being beaten up to pulp
295
00:16:15,391 --> 00:16:18,099
just because she lives in this body
296
00:16:18,532 --> 00:16:21,645
and someone from the outside
comes and decides for her
297
00:16:21,755 --> 00:16:23,366
that this is the body that you live in.
298
00:16:23,405 --> 00:16:26,083
Thus, this is what you are,
and I can do these things to you
299
00:16:26,355 --> 00:16:27,901
because I'm more powerful.
300
00:16:28,082 --> 00:16:29,867
So, yes, that's definitely
301
00:16:30,009 --> 00:16:31,885
something that got my heart rate up.
302
00:16:31,911 --> 00:16:35,042
_
303
00:16:35,145 --> 00:16:38,348
_
304
00:16:38,672 --> 00:16:41,382
_
305
00:16:41,408 --> 00:16:44,507
_
306
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,448
_
307
00:16:46,682 --> 00:16:49,658
_
308
00:16:49,788 --> 00:16:53,500
It took me ages to realise I was gay.
309
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,632
I still had, like, quite a lot
of shame surrounding it, I think.
310
00:16:56,645 --> 00:16:58,909
And I still kind of struggle
with that a little bit.
311
00:16:58,948 --> 00:17:03,399
At the moment, I'm still
not out to my grandparents.
312
00:17:03,432 --> 00:17:06,899
Whenever they've said the word "gay"
313
00:17:06,919 --> 00:17:11,051
it's always in a negative
light most of the time.
314
00:17:11,075 --> 00:17:12,796
So, you know, things like that
315
00:17:12,899 --> 00:17:15,002
kind of made me really think,
316
00:17:15,015 --> 00:17:16,619
"Oh, is it a good idea?"
317
00:17:25,235 --> 00:17:28,444
22-year-old Kiki came out to her parents
318
00:17:28,489 --> 00:17:30,831
after watching Gentleman Jack.
319
00:17:32,092 --> 00:17:35,129
I was watching so
many shows with so many
320
00:17:35,155 --> 00:17:38,128
queer characters and
queer relationships,
321
00:17:38,322 --> 00:17:40,156
and I think it finally dawned on me
322
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,932
that straight people don't
really care that much,
323
00:17:43,035 --> 00:17:46,425
they're not that invested
to the point where,
324
00:17:47,046 --> 00:17:51,491
you know, it takes up most
of their thoughts of the day.
325
00:17:54,551 --> 00:17:56,440
Get that slow-mo spray!
326
00:17:57,482 --> 00:18:00,652
I did go through a period of
thinking that I was pansexual,
327
00:18:00,671 --> 00:18:03,434
and I didn't really
know. And then realising,
328
00:18:03,485 --> 00:18:08,072
"OK, I definitely am
gay, that's just... Yeah".
329
00:18:09,074 --> 00:18:11,268
I told my mum straight after I realised,
330
00:18:11,306 --> 00:18:12,840
because it felt like,
331
00:18:13,065 --> 00:18:14,371
not that I was lying to her,
332
00:18:14,402 --> 00:18:16,291
but definitely that I was
keeping something from her
333
00:18:16,508 --> 00:18:19,594
which I never do, so I
told her pretty quick.
334
00:18:19,691 --> 00:18:23,864
I think I had to come out the
first time to get the ball rolling,
335
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:26,743
and then I had, like,
a year or something
336
00:18:26,788 --> 00:18:28,340
kind of getting used to it
337
00:18:28,373 --> 00:18:32,467
and being more comfortable with
it before I then told my sisters.
338
00:18:32,694 --> 00:18:34,466
Pickle!
339
00:18:34,615 --> 00:18:37,105
At least smile for the video!
340
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,788
I was quite grateful to be able
to do it how I wanted to do it,
341
00:18:41,814 --> 00:18:45,197
tell people as I wanted to
tell them and go at my own pace,
342
00:18:45,223 --> 00:18:46,672
which was quite nice.
343
00:18:47,112 --> 00:18:49,880
- Oh, banger!
- I know!
344
00:18:51,504 --> 00:18:54,532
- Shall we all try standing up?
- Are you sure?
345
00:18:54,622 --> 00:18:56,616
My family know that I'm gay, but
346
00:18:56,674 --> 00:18:58,375
my grandparents don't.
347
00:19:00,736 --> 00:19:03,543
My sexuality isn't my whole personality,
348
00:19:03,614 --> 00:19:05,232
but sometimes it is.
349
00:19:05,355 --> 00:19:08,965
And sometimes I, you know, have,
350
00:19:09,605 --> 00:19:12,839
I don't know, days where,
like, I want to say something
351
00:19:12,859 --> 00:19:15,809
or reference something or
make a joke about something,
352
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,293
and I stop myself because
I'm like, "Oh, I can't".
353
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,362
Because then obviously they'd know, and
354
00:19:20,401 --> 00:19:22,950
um, it's just the actual,
355
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,952
getting it out, getting it
over, like, the last hurdle.
356
00:19:28,643 --> 00:19:30,894
I want to go and tell them tomorrow.
357
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,271
Because we're so close,
358
00:19:34,368 --> 00:19:39,039
I don't want to think about
us not being that close.
359
00:19:39,123 --> 00:19:44,090
But I just want to know that
they're seeing me for me,
360
00:19:44,103 --> 00:19:46,064
because sometimes if they're saying,
361
00:19:46,083 --> 00:19:48,955
"We love you", and I'm like,
"Oh, but would you if you knew?"
362
00:19:49,913 --> 00:19:53,924
I don't want to have to feel
like I'm kind of squashing
363
00:19:53,988 --> 00:19:56,408
half of me down when I'm around them.
364
00:19:57,921 --> 00:19:59,286
The thought of kind of being like,
365
00:19:59,299 --> 00:20:01,085
"Here's me, take it or leave it",
366
00:20:01,098 --> 00:20:02,935
is quite scary because,
367
00:20:02,999 --> 00:20:06,648
you know, it matters when the
people mean so much to you.
368
00:20:14,663 --> 00:20:17,020
_
369
00:20:18,332 --> 00:20:20,975
_
370
00:20:21,068 --> 00:20:22,539
_
371
00:20:22,574 --> 00:20:24,021
_
372
00:20:24,032 --> 00:20:25,585
_
373
00:20:25,995 --> 00:20:28,204
_
374
00:20:28,907 --> 00:20:30,794
_
375
00:20:31,467 --> 00:20:33,248
_
376
00:20:34,061 --> 00:20:35,707
_
377
00:20:36,112 --> 00:20:38,414
_
378
00:20:39,644 --> 00:20:41,103
Before visiting,
379
00:20:41,144 --> 00:20:43,734
Kiki told her grandparents
she's being filmed
380
00:20:43,774 --> 00:20:46,448
for a documentary about Anne Lister.
381
00:20:46,743 --> 00:20:48,499
Oh, hello!
382
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,625
- How are you?
- I haven't seen you for ages.
383
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,342
I know.
384
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,893
Grandad!
385
00:20:57,037 --> 00:20:58,354
Hello, my darling.
386
00:20:58,361 --> 00:21:00,117
- You all right?
- Mwah.
387
00:21:00,163 --> 00:21:01,756
- You are?
- Yes, thank you.
388
00:21:01,788 --> 00:21:04,154
I'm sure you've grown! I've
shrunk, or you've grown.
389
00:21:04,187 --> 00:21:05,975
Well, let me take my shoes
off. Look, there we go,
390
00:21:06,047 --> 00:21:07,496
I've shrunk again now!
391
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,174
So, are we going to know what's
going on, then, are we, or... ?
392
00:21:12,613 --> 00:21:14,729
Erm, OK.
393
00:21:14,762 --> 00:21:16,983
Erm, yeah.
394
00:21:17,212 --> 00:21:20,325
So I want to tell you for ages and ages,
395
00:21:20,482 --> 00:21:22,972
but, well, I'm gay.
396
00:21:23,005 --> 00:21:26,589
So, that's it, that's
all I wanted to say!
397
00:21:26,655 --> 00:21:28,919
God, are we embarrassed!
398
00:21:28,955 --> 00:21:31,156
I knew you were going to say that!
399
00:21:31,182 --> 00:21:34,249
We live with a gay
granddaughter! I can't believe it.
400
00:21:34,256 --> 00:21:35,848
So, do you have a
girlfriend at the moment?
401
00:21:35,959 --> 00:21:38,777
- No.
- What's the point of being gay?
402
00:21:38,816 --> 00:21:40,185
Well... !
403
00:21:40,205 --> 00:21:42,066
Going through all this and not...
404
00:21:42,144 --> 00:21:44,917
- not have a girlfriend!
- You know, one day!
405
00:21:44,982 --> 00:21:46,306
I'd have kept quiet!
406
00:21:46,325 --> 00:21:49,189
Grandad, I kept quiet for three years!
407
00:21:49,274 --> 00:21:51,352
- Three years?
- Well...
408
00:21:51,353 --> 00:21:54,463
I mean, you're still young.
409
00:21:54,496 --> 00:21:56,842
You're positive about it?
This is where you're going?
410
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,496
Yes, absolutely.
Definitely. No questions!
411
00:21:59,588 --> 00:22:01,390
Do you visit gay bars?
412
00:22:01,679 --> 00:22:03,625
Erm, sometimes.
413
00:22:04,064 --> 00:22:06,476
- Not that often, but sometimes.
- Not yet.
414
00:22:06,502 --> 00:22:08,298
You haven't really got into it.
415
00:22:08,324 --> 00:22:10,224
- Well, I've been to...
- Are you a little beginner?
416
00:22:10,303 --> 00:22:12,413
Yeah, I've only been to a
couple, but not that many.
417
00:22:12,452 --> 00:22:14,700
You'd be a good catch
for some young lady.
418
00:22:14,923 --> 00:22:17,873
Certainly doesn't worry me,
my lovey. Whatever you...
419
00:22:17,945 --> 00:22:19,229
Oh, thanks, Grandad.
420
00:22:19,255 --> 00:22:21,129
want to do, we love you.
421
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,359
You are very brave to tell us.
422
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:24,681
- Oh, thank you.
- Well done.
423
00:22:25,992 --> 00:22:27,577
I can't believe it!
424
00:22:27,616 --> 00:22:30,002
Thank you very much for telling us.
425
00:22:30,107 --> 00:22:32,590
- You're still the same Kiki.
- Yeah.
426
00:22:32,629 --> 00:22:36,148
It doesn't matter what it
is. But you seem happier.
427
00:22:36,253 --> 00:22:38,002
Oh, that's good. I feel happier.
428
00:22:38,055 --> 00:22:40,178
Yeah. That's good. That's everything.
429
00:22:40,434 --> 00:22:43,389
- I loves you, Grandad.
- I love you, my lovey.
430
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,520
- It makes no difference at all.
- Ah, thank you, Grandad.
431
00:22:50,729 --> 00:22:53,495
It was just saying it,
and I think I still got...
432
00:22:54,386 --> 00:22:57,335
I still find it hard even
just to say the word "gay".
433
00:22:57,374 --> 00:22:59,549
Like, I still I have to push it out,
434
00:22:59,556 --> 00:23:03,462
because, like, the amount
of shame that is still there.
435
00:23:03,507 --> 00:23:07,124
But I can come for the
weekend and enjoy it.
436
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,888
And I don't have to question that
when they say that they love me,
437
00:23:11,928 --> 00:23:15,551
I know that they love all of
me and I don't have to worry.
438
00:23:16,940 --> 00:23:19,856
I just know that they do,
and I can just accept it
439
00:23:20,171 --> 00:23:22,956
and move on with the rest of my day.
440
00:23:24,889 --> 00:23:27,100
- All right?
- All good.
441
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,050
You did very, very well.
442
00:23:30,450 --> 00:23:32,998
Well done. See?
443
00:23:35,105 --> 00:23:37,417
Nature played a challenging trick on me,
444
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,626
putting a bold spirit
like mine in this vessel
445
00:23:40,935 --> 00:23:43,923
in which I'm obliged to
wear frills and petticoats.
446
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,737
Well, I refuse to be cowed by it.
447
00:23:46,654 --> 00:23:48,646
People can be very cruel.
448
00:23:48,998 --> 00:23:50,475
Shame on them.
449
00:23:50,522 --> 00:23:52,499
I don't want you to be hurt.
450
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,970
Sometimes if we want to be happy,
451
00:23:55,996 --> 00:23:58,072
we have to risk getting hurt.
452
00:23:59,116 --> 00:24:01,590
I watched Gentleman Jack when it was on
453
00:24:01,816 --> 00:24:03,215
and I was living alone.
454
00:24:03,273 --> 00:24:07,880
I didn't have a relationship,
I'd been like that for 30 years.
455
00:24:08,158 --> 00:24:11,246
I could identify myself in Anne Lister,
456
00:24:11,413 --> 00:24:15,476
she was such a strong
character and so brave, erm,
457
00:24:15,565 --> 00:24:19,251
to be open with how she felt,
because I personally know
458
00:24:19,340 --> 00:24:21,180
what it's like to feel like that.
459
00:24:24,609 --> 00:24:26,386
In the 1960s,
460
00:24:26,423 --> 00:24:29,893
same-sex relationships of
any sort were frowned upon.
461
00:24:31,114 --> 00:24:34,942
Even though lesbian relationships
were not actually illegal,
462
00:24:35,015 --> 00:24:37,500
but nobody ever talked about it.
463
00:24:38,690 --> 00:24:41,443
The swashbuckling approach,
the thumping stride,
464
00:24:41,490 --> 00:24:42,995
the tough man's clothes.
465
00:24:43,047 --> 00:24:45,065
These things are
natural to some lesbians,
466
00:24:45,123 --> 00:24:48,153
but mostly unacceptable to
people outside that world.
467
00:24:48,808 --> 00:24:52,059
Today, attitudes to
lesbianism have changed
468
00:24:52,086 --> 00:24:55,048
beyond all recognition
for women like Pauline.
469
00:24:55,373 --> 00:24:58,776
Even so, she's decided
that she doesn't want to be
470
00:24:58,812 --> 00:25:00,359
completely recognisable,
471
00:25:00,464 --> 00:25:03,656
so hairstyles and
names have been changed.
472
00:25:04,154 --> 00:25:08,573
From a very early age, I
realised my sexual orientation.
473
00:25:09,261 --> 00:25:11,651
As I got into my teens, I started having
474
00:25:11,656 --> 00:25:14,288
kind of slight
relationships with people.
475
00:25:15,845 --> 00:25:19,011
And then I met Trixie
in the work situation,
476
00:25:19,273 --> 00:25:20,720
she was very young,
477
00:25:20,767 --> 00:25:24,305
very beautiful and very
easy to fall in love with.
478
00:25:25,002 --> 00:25:27,661
We were actually together for 22 years.
479
00:25:28,232 --> 00:25:30,759
We separated, because Trixie felt
480
00:25:30,784 --> 00:25:32,736
she should do what everybody else does
481
00:25:32,772 --> 00:25:35,961
and be going out with men
and meeting up with men.
482
00:25:38,182 --> 00:25:42,114
I was absolutely
heartbroken when we split up.
483
00:25:42,494 --> 00:25:45,194
It took me a long, long
time to get back on my feet
484
00:25:45,233 --> 00:25:47,815
and realise that I had to go on.
485
00:25:47,828 --> 00:25:49,951
Life was still in front of me.
486
00:25:51,458 --> 00:25:54,204
I did try to have
other relationships, but
487
00:25:54,237 --> 00:25:55,548
somehow it never worked.
488
00:25:55,567 --> 00:25:58,045
Nobody could ever take Trixie's place.
489
00:25:58,549 --> 00:26:01,007
I just threw myself into work.
490
00:26:01,878 --> 00:26:04,015
I watched Gentleman Jack and
491
00:26:04,041 --> 00:26:07,790
was very affected by it emotionally.
492
00:26:07,881 --> 00:26:11,639
And it really stirred
me into doing something.
493
00:26:11,709 --> 00:26:14,389
I couldn't just sit
and do nothing any more.
494
00:26:15,660 --> 00:26:19,679
I had a photograph of Trixie
in the drawer of my desk
495
00:26:19,860 --> 00:26:22,724
and every now and again
would get the photograph out
496
00:26:22,769 --> 00:26:24,578
and just gaze at it
497
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:27,573
and wonder, should I or
should I not try and find her
498
00:26:27,599 --> 00:26:29,132
and get in touch again?
499
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,546
I found out where I
thought she might be.
500
00:26:32,566 --> 00:26:36,584
I wrote this card that had
my contact details on one side
501
00:26:36,924 --> 00:26:40,719
and I just wrote on the back,
"Would love to know how you are".
502
00:26:41,288 --> 00:26:45,835
That card actually laid on
my desk for a number of weeks
503
00:26:45,875 --> 00:26:48,627
before I was actually
brave enough to post it.
504
00:26:49,243 --> 00:26:52,636
I did post it and waited
with great trepidation.
505
00:26:53,325 --> 00:26:55,460
Eventually I did get a reply.
506
00:26:58,757 --> 00:27:01,005
I got home from work
and there on the floor
507
00:27:01,011 --> 00:27:04,589
was a white envelope and I
just recognised the handwriting.
508
00:27:05,592 --> 00:27:10,080
I thought, "No, that
can't be". And I opened it,
509
00:27:10,107 --> 00:27:15,041
and there it was, very
basic, "How are you?"
510
00:27:15,094 --> 00:27:17,557
Absolutely gobsmacked.
511
00:27:18,855 --> 00:27:21,863
I think it was a couple of
days later the phone rang
512
00:27:22,126 --> 00:27:23,620
and it was Trixie.
513
00:27:24,216 --> 00:27:26,163
And she plucked up courage to ring,
514
00:27:26,208 --> 00:27:30,265
and that was a very, very emotional
moment after all those years
515
00:27:30,317 --> 00:27:32,722
to actually talk to each other.
516
00:27:34,708 --> 00:27:37,853
- We just cried most of the time.
- Well, we did, really. Yeah.
517
00:27:38,633 --> 00:27:41,025
And it got more and more every day.
518
00:27:43,489 --> 00:27:46,457
And then she said, "Why
don't you come for a holiday?"
519
00:27:46,569 --> 00:27:49,052
And she said, "I'll
come and pick you up".
520
00:27:49,406 --> 00:27:51,621
- She stayed for two weeks.
- Yeah.
521
00:27:51,634 --> 00:27:54,373
Two weeks. And in that time decided,
522
00:27:54,419 --> 00:27:57,079
that, yes, we were going
to get back together again.
523
00:27:57,125 --> 00:28:01,398
And it was just as if that 35
years had never, ever happened.
524
00:28:03,147 --> 00:28:06,063
I think that goes on there. That's it.
525
00:28:06,535 --> 00:28:09,064
I would love to go to Shibden Hall.
526
00:28:09,209 --> 00:28:11,667
Just brings the whole
story to life, doesn't it?
527
00:28:11,726 --> 00:28:14,091
Yeah, it does. We shall
have to look into that.
528
00:28:14,143 --> 00:28:16,962
I wonder if there's a
special trip with a coach
529
00:28:17,152 --> 00:28:19,479
that we could get so
we don't have to drive?
530
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,530
- Maybe.
- Yeah.
531
00:28:21,838 --> 00:28:24,577
We'll have to look into
that. Over the years,
532
00:28:24,721 --> 00:28:26,137
when I got engaged to people,
533
00:28:26,169 --> 00:28:29,302
there was never that
depth of love there,
534
00:28:29,407 --> 00:28:32,284
so I didn't bother, I just
didn't want to marry them.
535
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:34,237
And I think deep down,
536
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,048
that was the only one
ever took my heart,
537
00:28:37,913 --> 00:28:39,747
was this lady, really.
538
00:28:39,879 --> 00:28:44,211
It's amazing that we had to
be apart for so many years.
539
00:28:44,965 --> 00:28:47,153
And here we are, back together.
540
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,081
Attitudes have changed
a lot, and I think
541
00:28:52,238 --> 00:28:55,573
things like Gentleman Jack
have done a lot for society
542
00:28:55,587 --> 00:28:57,552
and an awful lot of people
543
00:28:57,657 --> 00:28:59,688
have benefited from that.
544
00:29:01,104 --> 00:29:04,124
I will never cease to admire Anne Lister
545
00:29:04,373 --> 00:29:07,964
and Ann Walker, because
they were very brave people.
546
00:29:21,070 --> 00:29:24,347
The second series of
Gentleman Jack is under way.
547
00:29:24,419 --> 00:29:28,829
It's being filmed at Anne
Lister's real home, Shibden Hall,
548
00:29:28,902 --> 00:29:30,841
just outside Halifax.
549
00:29:38,074 --> 00:29:40,807
I'm just really pleased that more
people know about Anne Lister.
550
00:29:41,089 --> 00:29:42,701
I'm pleased that people are interested
551
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,361
- to know about Anne Lister now.
- Yeah.
552
00:29:45,394 --> 00:29:47,870
You know, she deserves to be much
more famous than she has been.
553
00:29:47,936 --> 00:29:49,849
And I think that is
the incredible thing,
554
00:29:49,889 --> 00:29:52,326
off the back of this
show, that it's now...
555
00:29:52,378 --> 00:29:55,366
that it's now part of the history
of Halifax and the country.
556
00:29:55,399 --> 00:29:57,685
But it is because of what you've done.
557
00:29:58,563 --> 00:30:01,099
It's a strange situation
that a TV show has
558
00:30:01,125 --> 00:30:03,019
told a bit of history that people
559
00:30:03,026 --> 00:30:04,592
- didn't know before.
- Yeah.
560
00:30:04,625 --> 00:30:08,328
You've taken the diary
and not missed a beat.
561
00:30:08,367 --> 00:30:09,566
Like, you know,
562
00:30:09,599 --> 00:30:13,639
these characters aren't just
kind of, like, thinly drawn.
563
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,910
Like, you've gone so deep into
564
00:30:15,923 --> 00:30:18,833
every aspect of their
relationship, which is beautiful.
565
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,733
Quiet now, please.
566
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:22,705
Action!
567
00:30:26,565 --> 00:30:28,065
Ah, here we are.
568
00:30:28,105 --> 00:30:30,372
- Ah, how was your journey?
- Bit of a delay.
569
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:32,666
- Thank you for inviting me.
- You're very welcome.
570
00:30:32,771 --> 00:30:34,226
Thank you.
571
00:30:36,729 --> 00:30:38,052
Thank you.
572
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,318
I've had so many letters, I'm sure
you guys have had so many more,
573
00:30:41,325 --> 00:30:44,496
from people saying, "I watched
the show and I was able to
574
00:30:44,895 --> 00:30:47,595
confront who I am and
be comfortable with it".
575
00:30:47,608 --> 00:30:52,024
And it gives a visual
reference to their parents,
576
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,196
to their friends, to say,
"Look at this amazing woman".
577
00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:00,104
To go, "Oh, that's how I feel.
578
00:31:00,248 --> 00:31:03,662
It's OK to explore
my gender in that way.
579
00:31:03,682 --> 00:31:06,041
It's OK to explore my
sexuality in that way,
580
00:31:06,093 --> 00:31:08,970
and to be courageous with it".
581
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:11,807
_
582
00:31:12,528 --> 00:31:14,029
There's no infection, I'm told.
583
00:31:14,069 --> 00:31:16,225
He's been very lucky, he's healing well.
584
00:31:17,142 --> 00:31:19,744
It were very good of you,
ma'am, to pay for Dr Kenny.
585
00:31:19,803 --> 00:31:22,018
It was my sister who paid
for Dr Kenny, but, yes,
586
00:31:22,038 --> 00:31:23,781
it was very kind of her.
587
00:31:24,220 --> 00:31:26,697
Do you think she looks
better without the hat?
588
00:31:27,017 --> 00:31:29,488
Yeah, I suppose so, but
I still don't like her.
589
00:31:31,022 --> 00:31:32,516
Are you a man?
590
00:31:34,122 --> 00:31:36,422
No, I am not a man.
591
00:31:36,514 --> 00:31:39,849
I'm a lady, a woman, I'm a lady woman.
592
00:31:41,187 --> 00:31:44,004
Think she explains that very well!
593
00:31:45,401 --> 00:31:48,795
But I think, yeah, it's
just a little boy confused
594
00:31:48,841 --> 00:31:50,413
as to her appearance.
595
00:31:50,426 --> 00:31:51,580
But it doesn't faze her,
596
00:31:51,593 --> 00:31:53,611
and I think she deals
with it really nicely.
597
00:31:54,994 --> 00:31:56,377
What do you think, Mum?
598
00:31:56,436 --> 00:31:59,120
I thought she was really
nice with this little boy.
599
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,586
I think this is a part that I like.
600
00:32:04,503 --> 00:32:06,830
Yeah, it's a really
nice, touching scene.
601
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,766
I think it is getting
better as time's going on.
602
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,337
She does want me to just,
like, get married and have kids,
603
00:32:18,396 --> 00:32:19,923
as she's done.
604
00:32:20,015 --> 00:32:22,263
But I have asked her
what her problem is,
605
00:32:22,276 --> 00:32:24,772
and she says it's like
a generational thing.
606
00:32:24,804 --> 00:32:29,962
She's not grown up around that
sort of alternative lifestyle,
607
00:32:30,001 --> 00:32:32,569
and she says it's not
been in the family.
608
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:38,062
But again, it's like, well, she
was the first to date black men
609
00:32:38,081 --> 00:32:39,286
and have children with them,
610
00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:41,495
so I just don't get where that
611
00:32:41,567 --> 00:32:44,129
source of hatred is coming from.
612
00:32:44,483 --> 00:32:48,644
It limits how close we can
be and how much we can share
613
00:32:48,670 --> 00:32:50,433
and how much she knows about my life,
614
00:32:50,617 --> 00:32:52,484
erm, which is a shame.
615
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,136
She's been promising
me to do this for ages.
616
00:32:59,476 --> 00:33:02,039
Ten years after coming out to her mum,
617
00:33:02,098 --> 00:33:06,004
Sami has plucked up the courage
to broach the subject again.
618
00:33:06,410 --> 00:33:09,772
You know how when I first
told you about my sexuality?
619
00:33:09,884 --> 00:33:12,261
- Yeah.
- You were so upset and crying
620
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,129
and then maybe some anger,
621
00:33:14,365 --> 00:33:15,996
- do you remember?
- Yeah.
622
00:33:16,481 --> 00:33:19,960
So I just want to
check now, why was that?
623
00:33:20,878 --> 00:33:22,772
I was... It was a shock.
624
00:33:24,449 --> 00:33:26,140
I never expected it.
625
00:33:27,995 --> 00:33:29,954
Were you disappointed?
626
00:33:30,131 --> 00:33:32,942
At the time, going back,
yeah, I'm not going to lie.
627
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,441
And there's been some
hurtful things that were said.
628
00:33:36,552 --> 00:33:39,494
I know you've said stuff like
I needed to be straightened out
629
00:33:39,540 --> 00:33:41,599
and I wasn't born like this.
630
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,114
Those comments, was that
part of the shock, or... ?
631
00:33:44,153 --> 00:33:45,641
Yeah, course it was.
632
00:33:45,693 --> 00:33:49,075
Because I just want to know,
like, what place that's come from?
633
00:33:49,527 --> 00:33:52,921
Is it, like, genuine hatred or just... ?
634
00:33:52,947 --> 00:33:55,110
No, I didn't hate you in any way.
635
00:33:55,811 --> 00:33:58,131
I just thought that
it was a passing fancy
636
00:33:58,164 --> 00:33:59,612
and it would go away.
637
00:33:59,854 --> 00:34:04,855
It's felt to me like
you'd be more accepting
638
00:34:04,907 --> 00:34:08,420
if I was with a guy that
was a criminal or crook.
639
00:34:08,524 --> 00:34:11,369
That's more acceptable
than being with a woman.
640
00:34:11,421 --> 00:34:12,679
Well, it's not like that.
641
00:34:12,699 --> 00:34:16,401
It's how it's come across,
which is very hurtful, really.
642
00:34:16,847 --> 00:34:19,403
Looking back, when you told me,
643
00:34:20,498 --> 00:34:24,148
you think, "Gosh, what
are people going to think?"
644
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,157
But now...
645
00:34:30,870 --> 00:34:34,586
... as long as you
find, go meet somebody,
646
00:34:35,038 --> 00:34:36,788
maybe a man or woman,
647
00:34:36,853 --> 00:34:38,819
I don't mind, as long as you're happy.
648
00:34:39,193 --> 00:34:41,827
It's unlikely to be a man, I'm afraid.
649
00:34:43,329 --> 00:34:45,707
But, yeah, it's really good to know
650
00:34:45,838 --> 00:34:47,988
going forward that, you know,
651
00:34:48,735 --> 00:34:51,199
I can be more at ease and more open,
652
00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:53,600
because I think that
will allow me to progress.
653
00:34:55,236 --> 00:34:57,720
And what if I meet someone
and want to get married,
654
00:34:57,752 --> 00:35:00,512
- would you come to that wedding?
- Of course I would.
655
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,339
And would you be proud about it, or... ?
656
00:35:04,804 --> 00:35:07,714
I don't know. I'd have to cross
that bridge when I come to it.
657
00:35:11,266 --> 00:35:14,156
Yeah, it took me a long time
to get my head around it.
658
00:35:14,169 --> 00:35:15,755
But I have now.
659
00:35:16,403 --> 00:35:18,618
It's your choice. What you want.
660
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,919
Good. Next foot!
661
00:35:32,963 --> 00:35:37,668
I belong to the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints,
662
00:35:37,675 --> 00:35:40,557
more commonly known
as the Mormon Church.
663
00:35:44,535 --> 00:35:48,492
I was an avid teenybopper Osmond fan.
664
00:35:50,019 --> 00:35:52,240
And their mother used to
always be putting stuff
665
00:35:52,305 --> 00:35:54,723
in the magazines about faith,
666
00:35:55,470 --> 00:35:57,822
it was sometimes seen as a cult.
667
00:35:59,847 --> 00:36:01,275
But because of the Osmonds,
668
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,440
I knew how good they were
and how nice they were.
669
00:36:04,788 --> 00:36:07,592
So I decided I would get baptised.
670
00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:12,933
Homosexuality is a sin.
671
00:36:12,959 --> 00:36:15,266
Same-sex marriage is a sin.
672
00:36:15,443 --> 00:36:17,113
So that's difficult.
673
00:36:18,830 --> 00:36:22,453
I can say probably to
people, I'm gay and,
674
00:36:22,696 --> 00:36:25,906
you know, they'll understand,
675
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,802
and they may well
eventually treat me normally,
676
00:36:28,848 --> 00:36:30,244
and it'll be all OK.
677
00:36:30,271 --> 00:36:32,453
But if I met somebody, then
678
00:36:33,324 --> 00:36:35,316
I'm not really welcome,
679
00:36:35,571 --> 00:36:38,409
because then that's viewed as the sin.
680
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,145
You know, in my heart,
I just love my faith.
681
00:36:42,649 --> 00:36:45,997
If I just forget about meeting anybody,
682
00:36:46,004 --> 00:36:47,943
or that ever happening,
683
00:36:47,944 --> 00:36:49,772
then I can participate in all of that,
684
00:36:49,955 --> 00:36:51,850
but I can't have that joy.
685
00:36:53,501 --> 00:36:55,998
You know, it is quite
emotional, it's just like,
686
00:36:56,175 --> 00:37:01,823
"What, do I just hang
on and sacrifice that?"
687
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,698
What do I do? Because either way,
there's going to be a sacrifice.
688
00:37:17,301 --> 00:37:20,322
A year after first
hearing about Anne Lister,
689
00:37:20,421 --> 00:37:23,720
Yvonne has just come out
to her daughter, Laurie.
690
00:37:24,647 --> 00:37:27,582
I was trying to say and I
couldn't, and then she just said,
691
00:37:27,622 --> 00:37:29,247
"Are you gay?"
692
00:37:30,944 --> 00:37:34,226
This is the first time I'm
going to actually meet her
693
00:37:34,265 --> 00:37:36,402
and see her face-to-face,
694
00:37:38,499 --> 00:37:40,045
so I'm a little bit nervous.
695
00:37:44,789 --> 00:37:48,118
Yvonne brought up her
children, Laurie and Jordan,
696
00:37:48,197 --> 00:37:52,299
as members of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
697
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,277
Laurie is still an active church member.
698
00:37:58,112 --> 00:38:00,319
- Hello.
- Hello.
699
00:38:00,504 --> 00:38:02,840
- I can't give you a hug.
- I know.
700
00:38:04,664 --> 00:38:06,263
- Sit here.
- Sit here.
701
00:38:08,551 --> 00:38:12,999
- It's windy.
- Oh, babe, how are you feeling?
702
00:38:13,563 --> 00:38:16,453
Yeah, it was a weird one!
703
00:38:17,089 --> 00:38:18,950
Not what I expected on the phone.
704
00:38:19,002 --> 00:38:20,936
No. Oh!
705
00:38:21,938 --> 00:38:25,477
It just felt like a whole ton of bricks
706
00:38:25,496 --> 00:38:26,990
had been taken off my shoulders.
707
00:38:27,049 --> 00:38:28,472
Like, knowing me.
708
00:38:28,590 --> 00:38:32,017
Like, knowing me deeper than I realised.
709
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:33,542
- Yeah.
- When you said,
710
00:38:33,563 --> 00:38:36,331
"I can well see you
with somebody", you know.
711
00:38:36,373 --> 00:38:38,545
Yeah. That makes way more sense.
712
00:38:39,797 --> 00:38:43,218
You know, you kind of
know where my joy would be.
713
00:38:43,277 --> 00:38:44,666
That's what I would want for you,
714
00:38:44,699 --> 00:38:48,447
because I can tell that
would make you really happy.
715
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,055
And that's all I want for you.
716
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,583
Yeah. I just thought,
"This is unbelievable".
717
00:38:55,694 --> 00:38:57,522
And I just couldn't believe
718
00:38:58,230 --> 00:39:00,176
that it would be so positive.
719
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,889
- Shall we go for a walk?
- Yeah.
720
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:09,015
My main concern is what you're
going to do about Jordan.
721
00:39:09,304 --> 00:39:12,029
When are you planning
on saying anything?
722
00:39:12,075 --> 00:39:13,399
Probably today,
723
00:39:13,451 --> 00:39:16,367
- I will probably have to say the word.
- He'll catch on quick.
724
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,444
And if I can't say the word,
I'll get him to phone Laurie!
725
00:39:21,630 --> 00:39:23,300
You're just going to use me now!
726
00:39:23,359 --> 00:39:25,122
I'm going to be the spokesperson!
727
00:39:30,260 --> 00:39:31,780
OK.
728
00:39:37,015 --> 00:39:38,516
Hi, Jord.
729
00:39:38,771 --> 00:39:41,840
- "Hello."
- Hiya, where are you?
730
00:39:43,214 --> 00:39:44,695
- "Where am I?"
- Mmhm.
731
00:39:46,274 --> 00:39:48,679
All right, OK. Have you got a minute?
732
00:39:49,393 --> 00:39:51,300
- "Yeah. Why, what's up?"
- Erm,
733
00:39:52,407 --> 00:39:55,370
well. A bomb's fell
on top of me, Jordan,
734
00:39:55,396 --> 00:39:58,744
I just realised something about myself.
735
00:40:01,181 --> 00:40:02,537
Erm...
736
00:40:03,363 --> 00:40:05,342
I'm not straight.
737
00:40:05,879 --> 00:40:08,146
"Oh, right, OK."
738
00:40:08,690 --> 00:40:10,349
"That makes sense."
739
00:40:11,089 --> 00:40:13,310
"Oh, right, OK. That makes sense!"
740
00:40:13,533 --> 00:40:16,469
- "Good for you, Mum."
- Oh, thank goodness, Jordan.
741
00:40:16,666 --> 00:40:18,567
I've been, like, terrified.
742
00:40:18,848 --> 00:40:21,345
- "All right, see you, Mum."
- OK, son, love you.
743
00:40:21,371 --> 00:40:23,344
- Bye.
- "Love you too, Bye."
744
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,224
What kind of kids have I got?
745
00:40:39,437 --> 00:40:42,320
They're just amazing.
746
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,655
Just amazing.
747
00:40:53,394 --> 00:40:57,063
I love, and only love, the fairer sex.
748
00:40:58,019 --> 00:41:01,446
My heart revolts from any
other love than theirs.
749
00:41:02,219 --> 00:41:03,765
200 years ago,
750
00:41:03,792 --> 00:41:07,363
Anne Lister had no qualms
reconciling her love for women
751
00:41:07,428 --> 00:41:10,834
- with her faith.
- I was born like this,
752
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,992
and I act as my God
given nature dictates.
753
00:41:14,392 --> 00:41:18,233
If I was to lie with a man,
surely that would be unnatural.
754
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,481
Surely that would be against God,
755
00:41:21,621 --> 00:41:23,462
who made us,
756
00:41:24,635 --> 00:41:26,641
every one of us, in...
757
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,367
all of our richness.
758
00:41:30,533 --> 00:41:34,130
Anne's confidence has
inspired many of her fans
759
00:41:34,189 --> 00:41:36,915
whose faith is also important to them.
760
00:41:37,420 --> 00:41:41,403
I grew up in an ultra
Orthodox Jewish community.
761
00:41:41,462 --> 00:41:44,614
I came out, basically,
because of the show,
762
00:41:44,660 --> 00:41:47,360
because of the courage.
763
00:41:47,681 --> 00:41:49,910
I, like, said to myself,
764
00:41:49,936 --> 00:41:52,242
"This is a woman in the 18th century".
765
00:41:52,321 --> 00:41:55,335
I live now, maybe inside,
766
00:41:55,368 --> 00:41:57,668
I live in the 18th century in some way,
767
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:02,360
but outside, I can go
768
00:42:02,419 --> 00:42:04,942
and tell everyone that I am lesbian.
769
00:42:05,112 --> 00:42:09,234
There's never been something
that has impacted me so greatly.
770
00:42:09,457 --> 00:42:12,013
And it was because
of the representation.
771
00:42:12,111 --> 00:42:16,397
There's this woman who
unapologetically chose
772
00:42:16,836 --> 00:42:20,152
to live a life that made her happy,
773
00:42:20,565 --> 00:42:22,989
which included her
being both with a woman,
774
00:42:23,022 --> 00:42:24,476
and being in her faith.
775
00:42:24,535 --> 00:42:26,711
That line where she said,
"God made me this way",
776
00:42:26,776 --> 00:42:29,692
that just, like, really was powerful,
777
00:42:29,725 --> 00:42:31,790
because it was just like,
people want to be, like,
778
00:42:31,810 --> 00:42:34,542
"Oh, you're going against
God and going against this,
779
00:42:34,582 --> 00:42:36,128
you're going against
that". But you're not.
780
00:42:36,148 --> 00:42:39,142
This is just who you are, and
there's nothing wrong with it.
781
00:42:39,870 --> 00:42:41,927
I want you to be my wife
782
00:42:42,524 --> 00:42:44,686
and everything that that means.
783
00:42:45,512 --> 00:42:47,176
To love,
784
00:42:47,805 --> 00:42:48,952
to cherish,
785
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:50,485
to have and to hold
786
00:42:50,629 --> 00:42:53,054
according to God's holy ordinance.
787
00:43:03,964 --> 00:43:07,149
Katie met her partner,
code-breaker Isabel,
788
00:43:07,241 --> 00:43:09,685
five years ago in their church choir.
789
00:43:10,078 --> 00:43:12,195
They share Anne Lister's faith
790
00:43:12,215 --> 00:43:14,731
and her desire to marry in church.
791
00:43:15,917 --> 00:43:17,470
It's reaching the point
in our relationship
792
00:43:17,523 --> 00:43:19,161
where we would really
like to get married.
793
00:43:20,236 --> 00:43:21,605
I thought we had marriage equality,
794
00:43:21,658 --> 00:43:25,439
so finding out that we can't
marry in the church where we met
795
00:43:25,472 --> 00:43:28,178
was a really hard realisation.
796
00:43:29,725 --> 00:43:32,130
The legal systems
within the United Kingdom
797
00:43:32,189 --> 00:43:34,345
recognise same-sex marriage.
798
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,878
But the Church of England does
not sanction marriage ceremonies
799
00:43:37,897 --> 00:43:40,165
between same-sex couples.
800
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:41,639
People always say to me,
801
00:43:41,678 --> 00:43:43,599
"Why do you need to
get married in church?"
802
00:43:43,638 --> 00:43:46,194
I mean, the obvious thing
is it's where we met.
803
00:43:46,246 --> 00:43:48,625
We spend every week, week in, week out,
804
00:43:48,664 --> 00:43:51,810
every Friday, every Sunday,
being part of the congregation.
805
00:43:52,518 --> 00:43:57,104
But also I do want to get
married in the sight of God.
806
00:44:03,041 --> 00:44:06,003
Just everybody else looks
happy, and she doesn't.
807
00:44:07,025 --> 00:44:09,955
She knows how important
it would be to her
808
00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:11,809
to be in a marriage.
809
00:44:11,927 --> 00:44:14,758
Yeah, it's denied her.
810
00:44:19,922 --> 00:44:23,637
Take and eat this in remembrance
that Christ died for thee,
811
00:44:24,220 --> 00:44:27,674
and feed on him in your hearts
by faith with thanksgiving.
812
00:44:28,126 --> 00:44:31,645
- The body of Christ, which is given for thee.
- Amen.
813
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,543
That's the significance of taking
814
00:44:38,047 --> 00:44:39,849
the sacrament together,
815
00:44:39,889 --> 00:44:42,300
is that's the moment that
they are the closest to God.
816
00:44:42,365 --> 00:44:44,056
Kneel next to each other
817
00:44:45,026 --> 00:44:47,634
just like you would in a real wedding.
818
00:44:56,422 --> 00:44:58,834
It's been nearly 190 years,
819
00:44:59,010 --> 00:45:01,442
and we know exactly how they feel.
820
00:45:04,030 --> 00:45:07,484
Things have changed so
much in so many ways.
821
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,145
But as far as getting
married in a church,
822
00:45:10,223 --> 00:45:12,149
we are exactly where they were.
823
00:45:12,163 --> 00:45:16,612
That sort of frustration at
not being able to have this,
824
00:45:16,783 --> 00:45:19,777
- well, that's completely relatable to me.
- Yeah.
825
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,964
Yvonne came out to her
son Jordan on the phone.
826
00:45:29,023 --> 00:45:31,971
They haven't spoken about it since.
827
00:45:32,659 --> 00:45:35,707
- Hi, Mother. How are you?
- Yeah, I'm fine, son.
828
00:45:35,871 --> 00:45:37,745
So how did you feel
after that phone call?
829
00:45:37,778 --> 00:45:42,345
It's just classic you,
you sit in your own world.
830
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,913
I don't even think it's crossed your
mind until you watched that thing.
831
00:45:46,972 --> 00:45:49,547
It didn't. It didn't.
832
00:45:49,593 --> 00:45:51,945
A lot of things make sense now.
833
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:56,079
Good for you. Crack on, get
yourself a girlfriend, Mum.
834
00:45:56,433 --> 00:46:00,440
- Are you on Tinder?
- Well, that's weird. No, no, no!
835
00:46:01,388 --> 00:46:04,798
63 and all to play for now, though, Mum.
836
00:46:05,196 --> 00:46:06,834
- Oh, get lost!
- All to play for.
837
00:46:07,620 --> 00:46:09,304
It would definitely be a plunge.
838
00:46:09,363 --> 00:46:11,552
Well, dive headfirst.
839
00:46:11,808 --> 00:46:13,761
You made the first step.
840
00:46:14,114 --> 00:46:15,923
Make another one. Why not?
841
00:46:18,518 --> 00:46:20,137
How are you, sister?
842
00:46:20,661 --> 00:46:22,621
All right. How are you, brother?
843
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:23,853
Not too bad.
844
00:46:23,898 --> 00:46:26,920
Jordan left the Mormon church years ago,
845
00:46:26,972 --> 00:46:30,426
but his sister Laurie is
still an active member.
846
00:46:30,530 --> 00:46:33,440
I don't think we have properly
sat down and chatted really,
847
00:46:33,466 --> 00:46:35,439
- have we?
- Not about this.
848
00:46:35,563 --> 00:46:38,367
Nothing has changed in
my world at the moment,
849
00:46:38,538 --> 00:46:42,122
but when this moves on to the next bit,
850
00:46:42,142 --> 00:46:45,222
- when random people do know...
- Yeah.
851
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,570
... then I am a bit
worried. It'll not affect me,
852
00:46:48,622 --> 00:46:51,689
but I'm like, how will it affect you?
853
00:46:51,807 --> 00:46:53,635
You, I'm not so worried about.
854
00:46:55,162 --> 00:46:56,990
I don't think it will affect you at all.
855
00:46:57,009 --> 00:46:58,438
That's because no-one will come to you!
856
00:46:58,464 --> 00:47:00,443
I go to church, you don't go to church,
857
00:47:00,476 --> 00:47:02,573
so anyone at church
is going to come to me.
858
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,043
They usually don't ask
the source, do they?
859
00:47:05,049 --> 00:47:07,094
They usually go round the back way.
860
00:47:08,070 --> 00:47:11,032
- It's all right.
- It's definitely you I worry about, I definitely do.
861
00:47:11,464 --> 00:47:15,062
So the church rule on being
homosexual is the weirdest,
862
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,790
most confusing rule I've
ever heard in my life.
863
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,905
That you can be openly gay,
864
00:47:22,964 --> 00:47:26,758
as long as you don't
physically act upon it.
865
00:47:26,797 --> 00:47:31,666
Like, that does not compute in
my head whatsoever with church.
866
00:47:31,712 --> 00:47:33,728
- I don't get it.
- I don't feel that.
867
00:47:34,818 --> 00:47:37,242
And I come from a place of...
868
00:47:38,685 --> 00:47:44,685
- ... I can make changes in the church.
- Yeah. Absolutely.
869
00:47:45,493 --> 00:47:47,964
- 'Cos I do consider myself an ally.
- Yeah.
870
00:47:48,017 --> 00:47:52,165
But I also consider myself a full member
871
00:47:52,244 --> 00:47:54,525
of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints.
872
00:47:54,526 --> 00:47:56,596
- Yeah.
- And we are at a...
873
00:47:56,871 --> 00:47:58,916
- head with everything at the minute.
- Yes. Yes.
874
00:47:58,968 --> 00:48:01,197
There's certain things
that I have to leave behind,
875
00:48:01,210 --> 00:48:03,176
- because it hurts.
- Yeah.
876
00:48:03,281 --> 00:48:05,941
It just hurts when there's
certain things they say.
877
00:48:06,046 --> 00:48:08,011
And I know that they don't understand,
878
00:48:08,031 --> 00:48:12,658
and I know what it's like
for people to feel, you know,
879
00:48:12,704 --> 00:48:15,252
they think they're being
kind. You know, like,
880
00:48:16,628 --> 00:48:19,760
"Well, I love you, but I don't
love your lifestyle", or whatever.
881
00:48:19,787 --> 00:48:22,382
You know. It's just this
patronising kind of...
882
00:48:23,391 --> 00:48:26,242
And now I really feel it more.
883
00:48:34,263 --> 00:48:36,838
If a relationship came up,
I would want a relationship,
884
00:48:37,618 --> 00:48:40,114
because life is too short now.
885
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,721
I couldn't imagine if
you did have a connection
886
00:48:44,734 --> 00:48:46,798
with somebody and you
wanted to go with that,
887
00:48:47,597 --> 00:48:52,971
I would then have to deprive
myself of that experience.
888
00:48:54,577 --> 00:48:57,408
I mean, I don't think
I'll ever lose my faith,
889
00:48:57,860 --> 00:49:00,980
and the church will always
be a special place for me.
890
00:49:01,039 --> 00:49:04,938
But there comes a point, by
knowing this, that I kind of know,
891
00:49:04,990 --> 00:49:08,921
"Oh, I get it now".
Actually, this is me,
892
00:49:08,922 --> 00:49:10,337
and this is how God made me.
893
00:49:10,370 --> 00:49:12,584
So I'm not going to apologise for that.
894
00:49:17,938 --> 00:49:20,697
That was me at Rio Carnival.
895
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,245
That's normal me.
896
00:49:24,057 --> 00:49:25,997
One at Shibden.
897
00:49:27,111 --> 00:49:29,903
Sami's also ready to take the next steps
898
00:49:29,929 --> 00:49:34,522
in her search for romance and
has enlisted her mum to help.
899
00:49:34,620 --> 00:49:37,064
So these are some of
them that have liked me.
900
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,524
Too much posing on
that one! That's a no.
901
00:49:40,773 --> 00:49:42,693
She lives for solitude.
902
00:49:42,909 --> 00:49:44,666
So why's she on here?
903
00:49:44,777 --> 00:49:47,123
- Into non-monogamy?
- What's that?
904
00:49:47,169 --> 00:49:49,221
She's not just with one person.
905
00:49:49,450 --> 00:49:53,939
Your face! It's like
you're in a state of shock.
906
00:49:54,515 --> 00:49:57,943
No, no, no, no.
907
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,055
I am a bit choosy.
908
00:50:01,475 --> 00:50:03,225
What are you looking for, Sam?
909
00:50:03,297 --> 00:50:06,645
Someone who's sociable and
has their own life going on,
910
00:50:06,678 --> 00:50:08,460
job and friends and stuff.
911
00:50:08,499 --> 00:50:11,133
But someone who's not
shy of, like, you know,
912
00:50:11,290 --> 00:50:15,084
cleaning the kitchen floor
and chipping in in housework.
913
00:50:15,130 --> 00:50:17,247
Someone who's quite down-to-earth.
914
00:50:17,325 --> 00:50:19,258
I don't know if that sounds too much,
915
00:50:19,304 --> 00:50:23,773
but those are the sorts of
things I'm looking for, really.
916
00:50:24,206 --> 00:50:27,934
This one is 31. She's
into healthfoods, fitness.
917
00:50:28,045 --> 00:50:29,879
She's got a nose piercing.
918
00:50:29,900 --> 00:50:32,619
Doesn't matter. As long
as nothing else is pierced!
919
00:50:32,652 --> 00:50:34,972
- And what do you think?
- Give it a go.
920
00:50:35,660 --> 00:50:38,852
Him and her looking
for a third to have fun.
921
00:50:39,487 --> 00:50:41,670
- So I'm going to say yes to that.
- You're not, are you?
922
00:50:41,703 --> 00:50:43,977
No, I'm not! Of course!
923
00:50:46,447 --> 00:50:47,639
As if!
924
00:50:47,770 --> 00:50:50,430
- That's a no.
- Oh, God.
925
00:50:54,395 --> 00:50:55,738
I loved that.
926
00:50:55,974 --> 00:50:59,280
She really seemed to
want to be part of it.
927
00:51:01,118 --> 00:51:04,434
She made clear she
wouldn't be keen on me being
928
00:51:04,447 --> 00:51:07,495
with someone overly butch or
someone that wears big boots,
929
00:51:07,534 --> 00:51:09,932
in her words, that sort of dress.
930
00:51:10,017 --> 00:51:13,281
I think dress does matter to her image.
931
00:51:13,379 --> 00:51:16,465
But overall, I just
feel more comfortable.
932
00:51:16,544 --> 00:51:18,765
It does make a huge difference,
933
00:51:18,811 --> 00:51:21,858
allowing her to be more
involved in that part of my life.
934
00:51:21,891 --> 00:51:23,798
I feel like we can move forward.
935
00:51:30,654 --> 00:51:34,159
Finding out two years or so
ago that we couldn't marry
936
00:51:34,212 --> 00:51:36,886
in the church where we met
and in front of all our friends
937
00:51:36,952 --> 00:51:38,813
was a really hard thing
938
00:51:38,852 --> 00:51:41,912
and it just sometimes feels like
the whole church is against you.
939
00:51:41,958 --> 00:51:44,691
But it's not the case,
there are so many clergy
940
00:51:44,718 --> 00:51:47,712
who would want to, I think.
941
00:51:48,269 --> 00:51:51,886
Despite Isabel and Katie's
church being inclusive,
942
00:51:51,998 --> 00:51:54,069
Church of England priests are forbidden
943
00:51:54,128 --> 00:51:56,560
from marrying same-sex couples.
944
00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:01,178
It's massively frustrating
for those of us who feel
945
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,749
it's the right thing to do
as priests to be able to marry
946
00:52:04,834 --> 00:52:08,879
people who love each other and
are rooted in this congregation.
947
00:52:08,969 --> 00:52:11,511
You know, that feels
instinctively right,
948
00:52:11,551 --> 00:52:16,622
and I know that you could go
round the corner to the town hall,
949
00:52:16,675 --> 00:52:19,991
to the register office and
you could come back here
950
00:52:20,056 --> 00:52:22,940
and we could have music,
and we could have prayers
951
00:52:22,986 --> 00:52:25,213
and I could speak the words of blessing.
952
00:52:25,790 --> 00:52:28,155
But that's not the
point somehow, really.
953
00:52:28,234 --> 00:52:29,662
Yeah.
954
00:52:35,934 --> 00:52:38,523
- Could you get butter and eggs, please?
- Yeah.
955
00:52:38,608 --> 00:52:41,236
Anne Lister's bravery inspired Isabel
956
00:52:41,249 --> 00:52:43,110
to take on the Church of England,
957
00:52:43,215 --> 00:52:46,577
by standing for election
to the Church's lawmakers,
958
00:52:46,630 --> 00:52:48,255
the General Synod.
959
00:52:49,323 --> 00:52:51,925
I just woke up one
morning, sat up in bed,
960
00:52:51,983 --> 00:52:54,388
and just said, "Sod
it, I'm going to do it".
961
00:52:54,605 --> 00:52:57,488
I am interested in more
things than talking about
962
00:52:57,540 --> 00:53:01,334
same-sex marriage in churches,
I am interested in learning more.
963
00:53:01,596 --> 00:53:06,406
But obviously, that is the
main reason why I am standing.
964
00:53:07,448 --> 00:53:10,580
Change is happening, it's
only a matter of time, frankly,
965
00:53:10,633 --> 00:53:13,477
I just would really like it to be
966
00:53:13,805 --> 00:53:15,417
in the next ten years of my life
967
00:53:15,423 --> 00:53:18,051
rather than when I'm
an old lady, frankly.
968
00:53:18,096 --> 00:53:21,143
But we'll get there.
969
00:53:21,982 --> 00:53:23,515
We have to.
970
00:53:24,231 --> 00:53:25,908
Camera is going up.
971
00:53:30,312 --> 00:53:32,147
I'll never play anyone else like her
972
00:53:32,219 --> 00:53:34,533
because she's theatrical,
she's sensitive,
973
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:37,802
she's vulnerable, she's
charismatic, she's sexy,
974
00:53:37,848 --> 00:53:42,133
she's hard, she's vicious,
she's cruel at times.
975
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:43,961
I mean, what a gift.
976
00:53:44,138 --> 00:53:46,157
That's why it's resonated
with so many people,
977
00:53:46,209 --> 00:53:49,354
because there's no-one like
her on our screens, you know.
978
00:53:52,323 --> 00:53:54,754
I've spent a lot of my career
feeling quite silly sometimes
979
00:53:54,774 --> 00:53:56,104
about being an actor.
980
00:53:56,163 --> 00:53:59,092
It's very easy to think, "I'm
not really doing anything".
981
00:53:59,138 --> 00:54:01,241
That's why it's been so
special being a part of this,
982
00:54:01,294 --> 00:54:04,157
because it really has
impacted people's lives.
983
00:54:04,177 --> 00:54:06,418
It's the first time I've written
something that I think was important.
984
00:54:06,457 --> 00:54:08,475
- Yeah, yeah.
- Actually important.
985
00:54:12,236 --> 00:54:15,690
So I'm just packing my bag,
ready to go out to Pride.
986
00:54:15,853 --> 00:54:19,537
I'm trying to fit everything in
here that I'll need for the day.
987
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,719
I've just got my reading
glasses, my sunglasses.
988
00:54:23,771 --> 00:54:26,141
That's pretty much
everything that will fit.
989
00:54:28,657 --> 00:54:32,348
Before, I wouldn't have worn
this outside of the Gay Village,
990
00:54:32,395 --> 00:54:36,175
I would have kept it in a bag
and put it on when I'm in there,
991
00:54:36,217 --> 00:54:39,619
because I wouldn't want
neighbours to sort of guess,
992
00:54:39,661 --> 00:54:41,233
or anything like that.
But now it's like,
993
00:54:41,254 --> 00:54:43,210
"Yep, I'm going out there with this on".
994
00:54:43,273 --> 00:54:45,669
And they can like it or
lump it, really, you know.
995
00:54:49,601 --> 00:54:50,928
Hi, Mum.
996
00:54:51,142 --> 00:54:52,825
Are you going to take that hat with you?
997
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:54,314
Yeah, just for a laugh.
998
00:54:54,618 --> 00:54:56,741
I'm more worried about the shorts.
999
00:54:56,799 --> 00:54:58,691
- No, they look all right.
- Really?
1000
00:54:58,744 --> 00:54:59,744
Yeah.
1001
00:54:59,924 --> 00:55:01,753
There's my answer.
1002
00:55:02,193 --> 00:55:03,709
See you later, Luther.
1003
00:55:06,319 --> 00:55:07,661
Watch what you're doing.
1004
00:55:07,745 --> 00:55:09,558
- Thank you.
- Be careful.
1005
00:55:09,584 --> 00:55:12,945
I will. I'll see later.
Or you might not, actually,
1006
00:55:13,511 --> 00:55:15,560
I might pull and not come home!
1007
00:55:17,758 --> 00:55:19,472
- Bye.
- See you later.
1008
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:23,976
- Watch how you go.
- I will.
1009
00:55:25,518 --> 00:55:27,421
- Bye.
- Bye.
1010
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,216
- I thought I would run by you...
- Go on.
1011
00:55:35,274 --> 00:55:37,519
- ... a little ditty I've written.
- Yeah?
1012
00:55:37,833 --> 00:55:43,003
It just encapsulates how mad
my life has been since this.
1013
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:44,203
OK.
1014
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:51,080
? The journey, it started
just watching the TV ?
1015
00:55:51,106 --> 00:55:54,425
? Anne Lister in Gentleman Jack ?
1016
00:55:55,840 --> 00:56:00,627
? And I was astonished at
how proudly she walked ?
1017
00:56:01,057 --> 00:56:05,492
? With self-acceptance and no apology ?
1018
00:56:05,822 --> 00:56:10,546
? So here I am, embracing rainbows ?
1019
00:56:10,619 --> 00:56:15,100
? My colours for all to see ?
1020
00:56:15,598 --> 00:56:21,598
? 'Cos finally I see every
shade that makes me. ?
1021
00:56:24,829 --> 00:56:26,977
I like it, Mum. I like it.
1022
00:56:27,486 --> 00:56:29,132
Next Pride anthem, that one.
1023
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,236
- I learnt a song, Mum.
- Oh, did you?
1024
00:56:32,257 --> 00:56:33,352
I did, yeah.
1025
00:56:33,399 --> 00:56:36,135
Just for you, Mum, in
your current situation.
1026
00:56:45,676 --> 00:56:47,610
? I'm coming out ?
1027
00:56:47,663 --> 00:56:49,959
? I want the world to know... ?
1028
00:56:59,966 --> 00:57:01,832
Embrace more rainbows, Mum.
1029
00:57:03,783 --> 00:57:07,038
? I'm coming... ?
1030
00:57:07,133 --> 00:57:09,581
Sami is still looking for a soulmate.
1031
00:57:10,707 --> 00:57:14,629
Kiki is very happy her whole
family now knows the real her.
1032
00:57:16,197 --> 00:57:19,458
Isabel narrowly missed out
on election to the Synod,
1033
00:57:19,516 --> 00:57:21,136
but she's going to try again.
1034
00:57:21,902 --> 00:57:25,708
Yvonne's made new friends through
the Anne Lister fan groups.
1035
00:57:25,949 --> 00:57:29,650
And Pauline and Trixie
finally visited Shibden Hall.
1036
00:57:29,724 --> 00:57:31,831
? I'm coming out ?
1037
00:57:32,067 --> 00:57:34,405
? I want the world to know ?
1038
00:57:34,431 --> 00:57:36,863
? Got to let it show ?
1039
00:57:38,351 --> 00:57:40,186
? I'm coming out ?
1040
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:43,247
? I want the world to know ?
1041
00:57:43,326 --> 00:57:45,925
? Got to let it show ?
1042
00:57:46,895 --> 00:57:48,877
? There's a new me coming out ?
1043
00:57:49,045 --> 00:57:50,985
? And I just have to live ?
1044
00:57:51,037 --> 00:57:53,223
? And I wanna give ?
1045
00:57:53,343 --> 00:57:55,755
? I'm completely positive... ?
1046
00:57:55,796 --> 00:58:00,000
- Synced and corrected by chamallow -
- www.addic7ed.com -
82085
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