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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,700 This photo is taken in the studio, 2 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,700 and you can see Michelangelo sitting 3 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,870 here through this gray glass. 4 00:01:57,970 --> 00:01:59,140 And this is me. 5 00:01:59,210 --> 00:02:00,350 It's really funny because it looks 6 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,510 as though I'm directing him. 7 00:02:03,610 --> 00:02:06,180 He was doing his first film in English. 8 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,380 His English was not amazing, and he needed 9 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,950 somebody to be his ears... 10 00:02:13,020 --> 00:02:14,490 his ears with the actors... 11 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:23,140 to be able to tell him the effect of what they would do. 12 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,740 In '66 I was 27. 13 00:02:25,830 --> 00:02:27,000 My first movie. 14 00:02:27,070 --> 00:02:32,080 It's an American movie, MGM, American budget. 15 00:02:32,170 --> 00:02:36,510 But the artistic mind behind it was this particularly 16 00:02:36,580 --> 00:02:39,580 European mind of. 17 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,050 We were talking French usually, and he would explain to me 18 00:02:43,150 --> 00:02:45,590 often what it was that he wanted actors to do, 19 00:02:45,690 --> 00:02:49,390 but sometimes what he wanted the crew to do. 20 00:02:49,490 --> 00:02:52,430 He explained to me once why he was shooting in London. 21 00:02:52,530 --> 00:02:55,370 He said, OK, I had this story I wanted to do. 22 00:02:55,430 --> 00:02:58,200 The story happens to concern a photographer. 23 00:02:58,270 --> 00:03:01,910 So he had to analyze where would it be interesting to make 24 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,770 a film about a photographer. 25 00:03:03,870 --> 00:03:05,170 He said, well, you could make it in Rome, 26 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,940 but it's been done... much of it has been done. 27 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,410 Seriously considered New York, but the attraction of London 28 00:03:10,510 --> 00:03:14,710 was obviously that it was Swinging London. 29 00:03:14,780 --> 00:03:19,120 There was a scene, there was a climate of excitement, 30 00:03:19,220 --> 00:03:23,520 and interest, and change, and new work. 31 00:03:33,430 --> 00:03:34,970 I got a phone call 32 00:03:35,070 --> 00:03:38,970 from someone who said they were at Harper's Bazaar in England. 33 00:03:39,070 --> 00:03:43,210 And Mr. Antonioni was in town and he'd 34 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,150 like to watch me take pictures. 35 00:03:46,250 --> 00:03:48,390 And I thought this is a joke. 36 00:03:48,450 --> 00:03:52,320 I had seen all his movies, and at that time, 37 00:03:52,420 --> 00:03:54,390 Antonioni was god. 38 00:03:57,260 --> 00:04:02,400 And he came down and he stood right over here. 39 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,250 In 1965 I started a book shop and art gallery 40 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,420 with two friends of mine, Peter Asher who was part of Peter 41 00:04:28,490 --> 00:04:30,360 and Gordon, a rock and roll group, 42 00:04:30,460 --> 00:04:32,600 and my friend John Dunbar who was the art 43 00:04:32,660 --> 00:04:34,930 critic for "The Scotsman." 44 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:48,180 We found premises in Mason's Yard 45 00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:50,280 for the gallery and bookshop. 46 00:04:50,340 --> 00:04:56,210 Mason's Yard is a small piazza just off of Piccadilly. 47 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,390 That was where the Scotch of St. James 48 00:04:58,490 --> 00:05:00,060 was located, which was at that point 49 00:05:00,150 --> 00:05:04,050 the sort of cool rock and roll aristocracy nightclub 50 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,360 where The Stones, and The Beatles, and The Who, 51 00:05:07,460 --> 00:05:11,560 and everybody used to meet. 52 00:05:11,670 --> 00:05:13,410 Nothing like modern discos. 53 00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:15,640 It only held 150 people. 54 00:05:15,700 --> 00:05:18,040 It was the size of a VIP bar in modern disco, 55 00:05:18,140 --> 00:05:19,880 and it was just a VIP bar. 56 00:05:19,970 --> 00:05:21,870 You were looked at through a keyhole. 57 00:05:21,980 --> 00:05:24,580 You had to be well-known, you had to be known to them. 58 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,550 But I was in there one night and there 59 00:05:26,650 --> 00:05:30,650 was a little slim Italian man getting a lot of attention, 60 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:31,990 and I didn't recognize him. 61 00:05:32,050 --> 00:05:33,020 I wondered who he was. 62 00:05:33,090 --> 00:05:34,360 He didn't look like a rock star. 63 00:05:34,420 --> 00:05:36,420 And Kit Lambert said, well, that's Antonioni, 64 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:37,590 the famous director. 65 00:05:37,690 --> 00:05:39,260 He's come to make a film in London, 66 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,900 and he wants The Who to perform in it and smash their guitars. 67 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,440 And I was very jealous, and I wanted my group, 68 00:05:45,530 --> 00:05:46,430 The Others to be in it. 69 00:05:46,530 --> 00:05:48,400 But I couldn't tell Kit that. 70 00:05:48,500 --> 00:05:50,600 So I wanted to go up and talk to him, and said Kit, Kit... 71 00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:51,770 no, no, no. 72 00:05:51,870 --> 00:05:53,240 He's... I'm... My group's doing the part. 73 00:05:53,340 --> 00:05:56,440 I'm going to see him tomorrow at the Savoy Hotel. 74 00:05:56,540 --> 00:05:58,580 So I told Kit don't be a pushover. 75 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,720 I said demand 5,000 pounds or say 76 00:06:00,780 --> 00:06:02,450 you want control of the edit. 77 00:06:02,550 --> 00:06:04,790 And I knew Antonioni would throw him out. 78 00:06:09,260 --> 00:06:12,900 One of the people who Antonioni knew in Britain 79 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,860 when he came over here was Robert Fraser who brought over 80 00:06:16,930 --> 00:06:20,130 a lot of pop art from America... that Andy Warhol he showed, 81 00:06:20,230 --> 00:06:24,870 for instance, and British pop artists like Peter Blake, 82 00:06:24,940 --> 00:06:27,580 and Hamilton, and all of those people. 83 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,080 At Fraser's place he first met Paul McCartney, for instance, 84 00:06:31,150 --> 00:06:33,650 who was a good friend of Robert's, as were 85 00:06:33,750 --> 00:06:36,950 the other Beatles and Stones. 86 00:06:37,050 --> 00:06:41,260 Antonioni and McCartney got on extremely well, 87 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,990 and Paul invited Antonioni over to his house 88 00:06:45,090 --> 00:06:46,290 and showed him his home movies. 89 00:06:49,100 --> 00:06:53,670 Antonioni was the most exciting person to meet, 90 00:06:53,770 --> 00:06:57,170 because he had made "L'Avventura," 91 00:06:57,270 --> 00:07:02,680 and "L'Avventura" was the film that changed my mind complete, 92 00:07:02,780 --> 00:07:06,420 or actually introduced me to cinema. 93 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,280 I remember him coming to my family house 94 00:07:10,350 --> 00:07:13,850 in Belgravia in London, which was a very sort 95 00:07:13,950 --> 00:07:17,650 of dead, dull place. 96 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,760 I think he must have been brought there with 97 00:07:21,830 --> 00:07:25,130 probably because we were the only 98 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,500 Bohemian family in Belgravia. 99 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,500 So when he came, we were all very excited. 100 00:07:32,610 --> 00:07:36,480 We spoke Italian, and then became a friend of his... 101 00:07:36,540 --> 00:07:40,850 so did my brother... and we went about in London with him. 102 00:07:45,620 --> 00:07:51,130 I think he was very, very much taken by the excitement 103 00:07:51,190 --> 00:07:53,390 about London... that there was about London, 104 00:07:53,490 --> 00:07:55,230 and that was going on in London. 105 00:07:55,330 --> 00:08:01,740 And he's interested in fashion, in the clothes, in the customs, 106 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:07,310 in the everything that was considered to be liberating. 107 00:08:12,350 --> 00:08:14,750 This was the first time that young people had 108 00:08:14,850 --> 00:08:17,550 any money, and they didn't have enough money, obviously, to buy 109 00:08:17,650 --> 00:08:21,020 cars or to buy houses or a mortgage or something, 110 00:08:21,090 --> 00:08:26,760 but they had enough money to buy records and clothes. 111 00:08:26,860 --> 00:08:28,930 And there were young people doing... 112 00:08:29,030 --> 00:08:30,830 starting little boutiques. 113 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:34,270 And the two key ones for the London Underground, one 114 00:08:34,370 --> 00:08:37,110 was Michael Rainey's "Hung On You." 115 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,440 "Granny Takes a Trip," which of course is 116 00:08:40,540 --> 00:08:42,340 famously in the book address, 117 00:08:42,410 --> 00:08:44,250 which was used in "Blow-Up." 118 00:08:44,340 --> 00:08:48,210 Because they didn't just make clothes for young people. 119 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,420 They also specialized in vintage clothes. 120 00:08:53,550 --> 00:08:56,050 It was color, bringing color, 121 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,590 color to this foggy nation. 122 00:08:59,690 --> 00:09:05,560 The fashion photographers were doing that in a sense, 123 00:09:05,630 --> 00:09:08,130 and so it wasn't just superficial, 124 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,940 it was also quite revolutionary in a way. 125 00:09:16,780 --> 00:09:19,880 As a specialist in the history of photography, 126 00:09:19,950 --> 00:09:24,150 as somebody who's passionately curious about the whole story 127 00:09:24,250 --> 00:09:31,160 of the London scene in the '60s, photography is the dominant 128 00:09:31,260 --> 00:09:34,260 thread for me, and has been a dominant thread through 129 00:09:34,330 --> 00:09:36,970 my investigation of "Blow-Up." 130 00:09:37,060 --> 00:09:41,800 I've always wanted to find out more... 131 00:09:41,900 --> 00:09:43,670 who were the influences, who made 132 00:09:43,770 --> 00:09:45,470 the pictures used in the film. 133 00:09:45,570 --> 00:09:49,740 And I was thrilled to know that the photographer who one 134 00:09:49,810 --> 00:09:53,350 sees in the opening credits from behind, 135 00:09:53,450 --> 00:09:55,290 it was David Montgomery. 136 00:10:02,860 --> 00:10:05,700 Some people called me up and said, 137 00:10:05,790 --> 00:10:11,200 Mr. Antonioni would like you to come down and photograph 138 00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:13,970 while the film's going on. 139 00:10:14,030 --> 00:10:17,700 Comes the big day and I take my assistant, 140 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,700 and we go to Brixton Market. 141 00:10:21,810 --> 00:10:24,610 And all these big movie cameras around, 142 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:29,820 and hustling, and facing this way, that way. 143 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:34,990 One of the men says, OK, you set up your camera here, 144 00:10:35,060 --> 00:10:40,470 and Donyale Luna, who was the beautiful black model, 145 00:10:40,530 --> 00:10:43,570 was standing on top of a little hut. 146 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,740 So I'm shooting and I'm shooting, 147 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:53,480 and I stop because I've run out of film. 148 00:10:53,540 --> 00:10:55,980 We open up the camera and we're taking the film out, 149 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,510 and all of a sudden they come running over 150 00:10:58,580 --> 00:11:00,350 and say, what are you doing? 151 00:11:00,410 --> 00:11:01,980 What are you doing? 152 00:11:02,050 --> 00:11:04,750 I said, I'm changing film. 153 00:11:04,850 --> 00:11:06,890 I've run out of film. 154 00:11:06,990 --> 00:11:09,090 And they said, you don't need film. 155 00:11:09,190 --> 00:11:10,320 This is a movie. 156 00:11:10,390 --> 00:11:11,930 It's make believe. 157 00:11:12,030 --> 00:11:14,230 I said, not make believe to me. 158 00:11:14,330 --> 00:11:15,500 I'm a photographer. 159 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:16,830 I'm not an actor. 160 00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:19,870 I can't make believe I'm taking pictures. 161 00:11:34,210 --> 00:11:35,340 Actually, I don't 162 00:11:35,420 --> 00:11:36,790 know how I got in because I didn't 163 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,120 phone the production company. 164 00:11:38,220 --> 00:11:39,860 I just called the Savoy and somehow got through 165 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:41,460 to his suite and said I was the manager 166 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:43,560 of The Yardbirds, who were the second biggest 167 00:11:43,620 --> 00:11:46,220 group in the world. 168 00:11:46,290 --> 00:11:48,460 And I went very prepared with lots of reviews 169 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:50,530 and photographs and things. 170 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,740 And I told him I'd heard from Kit Lambert 171 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,740 that they hadn't got on very well. 172 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,700 And I said to him that actually this smashing equipment, which 173 00:11:57,770 --> 00:12:01,970 he was very keen to see, really wasn't The Who that started it. 174 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:03,550 I said it was the Yardbirds who started it 175 00:12:03,610 --> 00:12:04,440 and The Who copied them. 176 00:12:10,250 --> 00:12:12,320 And I said Jeff Beck always smashes... 177 00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:14,090 or he used to smash his guitar. 178 00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:15,650 He's marvelous at it. 179 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,100 And anyway, I don't how I think Antonioni just got on with me. 180 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:20,830 We clicked quite well. 181 00:12:20,930 --> 00:12:22,400 I think he probably knew I was lying, 182 00:12:22,460 --> 00:12:24,630 but I think he liked that too. 183 00:12:24,730 --> 00:12:27,070 And so he said, OK, they can come and do it. 184 00:12:32,410 --> 00:12:35,980 "We had to play a film to change the sets at The Hampstead 185 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,520 Theatre between the various scenes 186 00:12:38,610 --> 00:12:41,650 in "Adventures in the Skin Trade." 187 00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:44,120 The shooting had to be done for next to nothing, 188 00:12:44,180 --> 00:12:48,250 but I was happy to do it in a surrealist or irrealist 189 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,520 mode in the old black and white and silent manner. 190 00:12:51,630 --> 00:12:55,700 So there I was when a mysterious and beautiful woman I knew 191 00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:00,970 called Clare came in with a handsome elder Italian saying 192 00:13:01,030 --> 00:13:04,200 that they were looking for locations. 193 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:07,840 And then I went upstairs to discover that Clare was with 194 00:13:07,940 --> 00:13:13,280 Michelangelo Antonioni who was about to film "Blow-Up," 195 00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:15,950 which would turn out to be the definitive 196 00:13:16,020 --> 00:13:19,560 statement of how young life in London 197 00:13:19,650 --> 00:13:21,150 appeared to be right then." 198 00:13:27,660 --> 00:13:31,330 David Hemmings at the time was absolutely broke, 199 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,040 and we hired him. 200 00:13:33,130 --> 00:13:35,300 We first wanted to hire Terence Stamp, 201 00:13:35,370 --> 00:13:39,470 but Terence Stamp didn't like the play too much, 202 00:13:39,540 --> 00:13:42,710 and he knew he was actually being 203 00:13:42,810 --> 00:13:44,650 thought of to do. 204 00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:49,250 But Hemmings was number two to Stamp at the time. 205 00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:53,720 He had a spotty acting career, but he was 206 00:13:53,820 --> 00:13:56,320 available and absolutely broke. 207 00:13:56,390 --> 00:14:01,760 So he came to stay with me in my river house in Limehouse, 208 00:14:01,860 --> 00:14:03,360 and he had nothing. 209 00:14:03,430 --> 00:14:07,400 So we negotiated for 20 pounds a week was all he was getting. 210 00:14:11,540 --> 00:14:15,040 I took him to Limehouse in the East end 211 00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:20,020 on the docks... that part in London which was still a port, 212 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,920 still functioning as port, where writer Andrew Sinclair lived, 213 00:14:25,020 --> 00:14:28,120 and he was working with David Hemmings, 214 00:14:28,220 --> 00:14:31,290 and I went to the play with Antonioni. 215 00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:42,770 I saw that he had this energy, and what a capacity 216 00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:46,110 to sort of follow Antonioni rules, 217 00:14:46,210 --> 00:14:48,450 which was saying very little. 218 00:14:48,540 --> 00:14:51,580 And being used in a way, you're used as a tool. 219 00:14:51,650 --> 00:14:55,420 And at the same time he had this quickness 220 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,250 and sharpness which was very... 221 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:00,760 right for the part. 222 00:15:00,820 --> 00:15:02,320 Hemmings is marvelous. 223 00:15:02,420 --> 00:15:05,090 It's probably his greatest performance as the young Dylan 224 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,330 Thomas... quite extraordinary. 225 00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:09,900 Energetic, reckless and , 226 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,130 he was perfect for "Blow-Up." 227 00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:15,270 So instead of 20 pounds a week, he 228 00:15:15,340 --> 00:15:18,980 left us for the set of "Blow-Up"... of course, 229 00:15:19,070 --> 00:15:20,770 Stamp had been fired. 230 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,010 He had taken the role on 7,500 a week 231 00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:28,150 in a Rolls Royce white coupe. 232 00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:31,820 It was the biggest translation of fortunes I've ever seen. 233 00:15:36,490 --> 00:15:38,690 He was called Thomas in the "Blow-Up," 234 00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:41,990 the great photographer hero David Hemmings. 235 00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:46,040 Because, of course, that is how Antonioni. 236 00:15:46,130 --> 00:15:48,370 From "Adventures in the Skin Trade," 237 00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:50,770 he took out Dylan Thomas. 238 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,880 The photographer studio was, at that time 239 00:16:02,980 --> 00:16:09,020 in '66, a very sort of emblematic place because 240 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,390 of Bailey, and your fashion scene, and King's Road, 241 00:16:13,490 --> 00:16:15,790 and miniskirts. 242 00:16:15,860 --> 00:16:18,800 It was somehow culturally central. 243 00:16:23,570 --> 00:16:26,970 Antonioni was meticulous in researching 244 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:32,350 to create a real authenticity around his character, 245 00:16:32,410 --> 00:16:36,910 around the details of how he lived, how a shoot works. 246 00:16:37,020 --> 00:16:43,860 It's underpinned with a lot of accurate, minute detailing. 247 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,760 Antonioni asked Frances Windham, 248 00:16:50,860 --> 00:16:54,900 who was an extremely talented writer of "The Sunday Times," 249 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,940 he wanted to compose a kind of questionnaire. 250 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:03,940 And so what he had was data about the behavior, 251 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,740 the choices made by photographers, 252 00:17:06,850 --> 00:17:09,520 their lifestyle, their attitudes to women, 253 00:17:09,580 --> 00:17:11,280 and to sex, and so on. 254 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,130 Among the various photographers 255 00:17:18,220 --> 00:17:21,290 that he visited, of course was David Montgomery. 256 00:17:21,390 --> 00:17:25,630 So what I learnt in that moment was that the actor who had 257 00:17:25,730 --> 00:17:29,300 played the part of David Hemmings' assistant actually 258 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:30,640 wasn't an actor at all. 259 00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:41,390 Reg was David Montgomery's assistant. 260 00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:44,590 And Antonioni felt no need to change his name. 261 00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:53,400 This is good. 262 00:17:53,460 --> 00:17:54,960 This is the Hendrix nudes. 263 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:08,440 This was 1966... a long time ago. 264 00:18:08,510 --> 00:18:11,780 I was doing a shooting for Harper's Bazaar, 265 00:18:11,850 --> 00:18:15,350 and Mr. Antonioni came down. 266 00:18:15,450 --> 00:18:19,860 I did a photograph of these girls wrapped in plastic. 267 00:18:19,950 --> 00:18:24,520 We didn't talk much, and he ended up using... 268 00:18:24,620 --> 00:18:27,290 I think all the girls that were in the shooting, 269 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:29,100 they were in the movie as well. 270 00:18:32,930 --> 00:18:37,370 There were three models, one called Melanie Hampshire, 271 00:18:37,470 --> 00:18:40,340 and another one called Peggy Moffitt, 272 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,640 and she was the first Rudi Gernreich 273 00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:49,280 model for the topless bikini for women. 274 00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:52,850 And then another one called Jill Kennington 275 00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:57,520 was just one of those people that could move. 276 00:18:57,620 --> 00:18:59,490 She had natural grace. 277 00:19:06,730 --> 00:19:07,960 The curious thing 278 00:19:08,030 --> 00:19:10,830 was that we weren't going to be filming 279 00:19:10,900 --> 00:19:12,170 in Shepperton or anything else. 280 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:17,050 It was actually taking place in this studio, 281 00:19:17,140 --> 00:19:19,380 which was John Khan's studio. 282 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,250 And I lived here for a few years. 283 00:19:26,350 --> 00:19:28,250 The studio, John Kahn's studio, 284 00:19:28,350 --> 00:19:32,490 is in a part of London which was then quite shabby, quite 285 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,700 scruffy, an area where you could rent 286 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,900 a big space, not crazy money. 287 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:44,370 Today it's become so grand and so expensive, that area. 288 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,410 The studio is at 39 Prince's Place. 289 00:19:48,510 --> 00:19:51,110 If you go to 39 Prince's Place today, 290 00:19:51,210 --> 00:19:55,450 you will be confused because the facade will not correspond 291 00:19:55,550 --> 00:19:58,290 to what you know from the film. 292 00:19:58,380 --> 00:20:01,750 You have to go around the corner to Pottery Lane 293 00:20:01,850 --> 00:20:06,620 to find the facade, so the exterior shots were 294 00:20:06,730 --> 00:20:09,030 made in this nearby street. 295 00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:19,140 When John agreed to rent the studio out 296 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,810 to Antonioni as the principal set, he lived in a caravan 297 00:20:23,910 --> 00:20:25,310 in the street outside. 298 00:20:25,410 --> 00:20:27,650 And I gather that Antonioni would 299 00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:29,890 probably have preferred that he'd 300 00:20:29,950 --> 00:20:31,820 moved a little further away. 301 00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:51,740 As far as I remember, 302 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,640 the actual shoot took about a week. 303 00:20:54,740 --> 00:20:57,180 And it was so out of character for me 304 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:02,850 to be what ended up by being the role of us five 305 00:21:02,950 --> 00:21:07,790 girls being completely dumb, and stupid, 306 00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:11,090 and very immobile as well. 307 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,460 You know, rather than the usual animation that I was used to. 308 00:21:18,330 --> 00:21:21,270 He obviously knew exactly what he wanted from us, 309 00:21:21,330 --> 00:21:27,140 and that was like a tableau, and he wanted the David Hemmings 310 00:21:27,210 --> 00:21:30,350 character to be very sort of alive, 311 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,210 and for some reason quite rude. 312 00:21:33,310 --> 00:21:35,780 But he wanted us to be quite inanimate, 313 00:21:35,850 --> 00:21:38,020 so I couldn't move very much. 314 00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:41,660 I remember feeling quite restricted. 315 00:21:49,060 --> 00:21:51,230 Jill was one of the absolute top London 316 00:21:51,330 --> 00:21:53,530 models of the '60s. 317 00:21:53,630 --> 00:21:57,370 John Cowan, with whom she had that close relationship, 318 00:21:57,470 --> 00:22:01,570 was absolutely at the top of the game. 319 00:22:01,670 --> 00:22:05,670 He was one of the key photographers defining what 320 00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:07,750 we know as Swinging London. 321 00:22:07,850 --> 00:22:10,690 But setting that new mood... 322 00:22:10,750 --> 00:22:14,890 energetic, dynamic, youthful... he was intensely 323 00:22:14,990 --> 00:22:17,260 creative in the early '60s. 324 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:21,030 They were a golden couple of a golden moment 325 00:22:21,090 --> 00:22:24,560 in British cultural history. 326 00:22:24,660 --> 00:22:27,100 But for different reasons they didn't 327 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,170 stay in the spotlight in the way, 328 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,580 for instance, David Bailey and Jean Shrimpton stayed 329 00:22:33,670 --> 00:22:36,540 in the spotlight and have maintained that that presence 330 00:22:36,610 --> 00:22:38,010 as reputations ever since. 331 00:22:41,050 --> 00:22:43,450 We have to remember, a lot of his great, 332 00:22:43,550 --> 00:22:47,250 great photographs were made for newsprint, 333 00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:49,420 as opposed to magazines. 334 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,920 He was working for the Sunday papers and the daily papers, 335 00:22:54,030 --> 00:22:58,470 and one realizes that he made some of his finest pictures, 336 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,400 destined to have a life span of one day. 337 00:23:01,470 --> 00:23:02,740 The interesting thing 338 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:08,470 is that he kept the essence of this studio 339 00:23:08,570 --> 00:23:11,470 as it was when John had it, because he 340 00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:16,390 had such huge great blow ups, particularly of me, many of me. 341 00:23:16,450 --> 00:23:17,820 So it was interesting. 342 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,820 He did want to show the energy in those photographs 343 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,560 and have it in the set as well. 344 00:23:22,620 --> 00:23:24,320 So that was good. 345 00:23:24,420 --> 00:23:25,490 I liked that. 346 00:23:28,830 --> 00:23:32,230 Bailey's work was not what the film was about, 347 00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:37,440 but his character, as in what David Hemmings was inspired by, 348 00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:41,000 I think possibly came a lot from Bailey. 349 00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:46,450 But the energy came from John Cowan, for sure. 350 00:23:46,510 --> 00:23:52,920 The shooting with Veruschka and David was pure John Cowan. 351 00:23:52,990 --> 00:23:55,260 I mean I'd worked with him like that. 352 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,020 Sadly, it wasn't when Antonioni was watching us. 353 00:23:59,130 --> 00:24:00,870 But that didn't matter. 354 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:06,030 Veruschka was perfect for that role, and I think completely... 355 00:24:06,130 --> 00:24:08,800 John used to often get up a step ladder, for example, 356 00:24:08,870 --> 00:24:12,110 and film from the floor, or the other way up. 357 00:24:12,170 --> 00:24:13,310 You're lying on glass. 358 00:24:13,370 --> 00:24:15,770 I mean he was just very innovative. 359 00:24:57,650 --> 00:25:00,890 It's changed dimension. 360 00:25:00,990 --> 00:25:02,560 I think it used to be a lot wider. 361 00:25:07,260 --> 00:25:10,030 The things that used to happen here, 362 00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:13,600 and I used to live here for a while. 363 00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:14,400 It's great. 364 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,750 Oh, I feel as if I know every bit of the floor 365 00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:33,790 as well, where we did photographs and the filming, 366 00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:34,560 of course. 367 00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:47,770 This used to be a fabulous space, 368 00:25:47,870 --> 00:25:50,370 and I think when Antonioni found here, he just 369 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,880 thought it was the bee's knees, because you could get 370 00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:59,980 a whole film crew in here, and you could shoot from the top, 371 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,050 which made it very interesting. 372 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:04,820 And I guess the Veruschka picture 373 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:05,890 must have been from here. 374 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,800 I wonder what's going to happen next. 375 00:26:18,900 --> 00:26:22,340 It's a piece of history, though, this film being made here. 376 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,180 I didn't realize at the time that film 377 00:26:26,270 --> 00:26:27,940 would be so significant... 378 00:26:28,010 --> 00:26:32,510 you know, sort of bird's eye view into London life. 379 00:26:32,610 --> 00:26:34,780 Some of it was exaggerated, of course. 380 00:26:34,850 --> 00:26:38,920 Well, that's a director's privilege. 381 00:26:38,990 --> 00:26:42,830 And I never knew what was in Antonioni head. 382 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,520 He was quite a sort of philosophical man, 383 00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:47,330 and very quiet. 384 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,460 The most composed secrets of all 385 00:27:19,530 --> 00:27:23,130 is the models in the reflective glass, 386 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,040 because it's a key sequence that embodies 387 00:27:26,130 --> 00:27:30,870 the meaning of the film of just a man with a camera who's 388 00:27:30,970 --> 00:27:33,870 playing with images, visions. 389 00:27:33,970 --> 00:27:36,410 These are visions that he's able to control. 390 00:27:36,510 --> 00:27:38,350 And of course, what happens then is that's something 391 00:27:38,410 --> 00:27:40,350 that he can't control. 392 00:27:40,410 --> 00:27:46,850 The fastidiousness of his vision was very clear in the studio. 393 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,660 When we came to do set up, everybody 394 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,560 had to leave the studio, and Michelangelo would be 395 00:27:55,660 --> 00:27:57,430 in there with the viewfinder. 396 00:27:57,530 --> 00:28:00,870 And he would be working out what would happen next, 397 00:28:00,930 --> 00:28:02,500 and then he would call DePalma, 398 00:28:02,570 --> 00:28:04,170 their cameraman, called the first assistant, 399 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,340 and then he'd call for the actors, and me, 400 00:28:07,410 --> 00:28:10,610 and they would then work it out, because he 401 00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:16,580 would design the set up very slowly, with great care. 402 00:28:24,290 --> 00:28:28,690 The scene with the girls and the paper, the nude scene, 403 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,400 was, of course, different again, because there was 404 00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:34,270 the fact that they were naked... 405 00:28:34,370 --> 00:28:36,740 that's difficult, and you have to close the set and so on. 406 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,700 And the fact also that it was completely unrehearsed. 407 00:28:40,770 --> 00:28:43,470 You couldn't possibly rehearse that scene. 408 00:28:43,580 --> 00:28:46,080 So it was just a romp in paper. 409 00:28:50,750 --> 00:28:52,790 I loved that sequence because that he's 410 00:28:52,890 --> 00:28:56,230 using the paper, which is part of the photographer's 411 00:28:56,290 --> 00:28:59,730 tool of a photographer that you see him pulling down the paper, 412 00:28:59,790 --> 00:29:02,160 you know, when he's working he's changing the sheets. 413 00:29:02,260 --> 00:29:06,560 And here it's used with wit and style. 414 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,680 My husband Pierre Rouve was, indeed, 415 00:29:27,790 --> 00:29:30,290 the executive producer on "Blow-Up," 416 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,960 working for Bridge Films, which is, of course, the English 417 00:29:35,030 --> 00:29:39,030 version of Ponti, Carlo Ponti. 418 00:29:39,130 --> 00:29:42,200 One evening... I think I was drawing the blinds here 419 00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:45,540 in the sitting room, and noticed that Antonioni in his car 420 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,040 was parked outside on the other side of the road. 421 00:29:49,140 --> 00:29:53,010 I imagined that Pierre had invited to come for supper, 422 00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:55,480 but had forgotten to tell me, and had 423 00:29:55,550 --> 00:29:57,720 forgotten to come back home. 424 00:29:57,820 --> 00:30:02,220 And so I telephoned him and I said, as far as I can see, 425 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,220 Antonioni's actually sitting in his car outside the house, 426 00:30:06,330 --> 00:30:10,070 but he doesn't seem to want to come into the house. 427 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,330 He said, don't do anything. 428 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,800 He's actually a very, very shy person 429 00:30:15,870 --> 00:30:20,540 and would find it very difficult to make casual conversation. 430 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,810 So I waited, he waited, and finally Pierre came home. 431 00:30:28,350 --> 00:30:30,920 He was also working as a lecturer, 432 00:30:31,020 --> 00:30:36,430 and that meant that he had the opportunity to invite Antonioni 433 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,090 to visit the Chelsea School of Art 434 00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:44,530 where Antonioni would have been introduced to Ian Stephenson 435 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,900 and seen his work, originally. 436 00:30:51,540 --> 00:30:53,180 And over here, of course, this 437 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,610 is the painting which appears in the film, and is talked about. 438 00:30:58,710 --> 00:31:02,880 This motif is based on a Greek classical sculpture. 439 00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:05,050 When described by David Hemmings, 440 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,360 the artist turned into a leg in the film, 441 00:31:07,420 --> 00:31:09,020 but it doesn't make any difference. 442 00:31:09,090 --> 00:31:11,430 In fact, that's more magical than if they 443 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:12,520 actually described it. 444 00:31:15,790 --> 00:31:17,760 He didn't fit in anywhere. 445 00:31:17,860 --> 00:31:19,960 He wasn't a pot painter, he wasn't 446 00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:22,440 an American style colorist. 447 00:31:22,530 --> 00:31:25,470 He was just making these extraordinary artworks of 448 00:31:25,570 --> 00:31:28,070 all different colored paints. 449 00:31:28,140 --> 00:31:30,910 In a way he suffered for that, because he's never 450 00:31:30,980 --> 00:31:33,120 in big exhibitions very often because they 451 00:31:33,210 --> 00:31:34,610 don't know where to put him. 452 00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:42,730 Antonioni could have been introduced to a range 453 00:31:42,790 --> 00:31:46,560 of artists who, it might be felt, 454 00:31:46,630 --> 00:31:53,070 represented the spirit of London at that point in the mid-'60s. 455 00:31:53,130 --> 00:31:55,900 Stephenson is an interesting choice. 456 00:31:55,970 --> 00:32:00,640 He's somebody who deconstructs the process of vision 457 00:32:00,740 --> 00:32:03,780 and representation itself. 458 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,280 When Antonioni came to the studio, 459 00:32:06,350 --> 00:32:11,690 Ian had on his perfectly clean white t-shirt, beautiful jeans, 460 00:32:11,780 --> 00:32:15,750 hair all combed, and had the conversations with Antonioni, 461 00:32:15,820 --> 00:32:17,360 and then they went away. 462 00:32:17,460 --> 00:32:22,030 And eventually when Ian was on the set at some point, 463 00:32:22,130 --> 00:32:26,030 the artist in the film appeared in a pair of blue jeans 464 00:32:26,130 --> 00:32:28,600 and a very white t-shirt and his hair all combed, 465 00:32:28,670 --> 00:32:31,140 and Ian must have said to them, well, I don't look 466 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:32,540 like that when I'm painting. 467 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:38,710 And someone must have just taken a paint brush 468 00:32:38,810 --> 00:32:42,180 and made three or four marks on the white t-shirt, completely 469 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,550 arbitrary, nothing to do with anything like Ian's dots. 470 00:32:50,820 --> 00:32:52,720 Assheton Gorton, the production designer, 471 00:32:52,830 --> 00:32:55,570 came to Ian in the studio to select some things 472 00:32:55,660 --> 00:32:58,400 to be on the set, and took virtually 473 00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:00,400 everything out of the studio. 474 00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:06,240 The plaster cast, all the pots of paints, some easels, 475 00:33:06,340 --> 00:33:08,240 I think there was a chair, actually... just 476 00:33:08,340 --> 00:33:13,180 sort of in-studio contents disappeared into a van 477 00:33:13,250 --> 00:33:15,250 and were away for quite a long time. 478 00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:18,250 So he couldn't actually get on with what he was doing. 479 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:26,930 I heard a lot about Pierre 480 00:33:27,030 --> 00:33:30,000 needing to get up terribly early in the morning 481 00:33:30,060 --> 00:33:33,030 and having to go down to Stockwell to make sure 482 00:33:33,100 --> 00:33:35,700 that the right amount of houses were painted 483 00:33:35,770 --> 00:33:38,710 the right color of red, because Antonioni would 484 00:33:38,770 --> 00:33:41,440 never have had the wrong red. 485 00:33:41,540 --> 00:33:44,540 It had to be the right thing, the perfect thing. 486 00:33:48,380 --> 00:33:51,780 Antonioni was very fortunate in having 487 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,280 an excellent production designer, 488 00:33:54,390 --> 00:33:56,790 a man called Assheton Gorton, who 489 00:33:56,890 --> 00:34:02,030 was very sensitive to locations in London. 490 00:34:02,090 --> 00:34:05,960 So we begin with the Economist Building, an extremely 491 00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:08,770 modern architecture in London. 492 00:34:32,390 --> 00:34:36,460 What Assheton Gorton did was to find a shop, and stuff that 493 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,230 full of this kind of debris. 494 00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:46,240 So that we see, if you like, the relics of an imperial past. 495 00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:47,950 We know that they're not sympathetic 496 00:34:48,010 --> 00:34:49,980 to the young photographer. 497 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,650 On the other hand, he seizes upon the propeller. 498 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:01,790 It's true of Antonioni's spirit, an ambivalent object. 499 00:35:01,850 --> 00:35:04,850 It's a relic, it's antiquated. 500 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,360 On the other hand, it's about the era of modernity. 501 00:35:13,970 --> 00:35:18,470 But the main thing he did was to find the park, 502 00:35:18,540 --> 00:35:20,980 and the park was like a little... 503 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,710 a little theatre. 504 00:35:23,810 --> 00:35:26,710 He wanted a stage set. 505 00:35:26,810 --> 00:35:31,620 It was a park, a London park, but it felt a compacted space. 506 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,230 When we arrived outside the park, 507 00:35:44,330 --> 00:35:47,500 by this antique shop, one could see that the road 508 00:35:47,570 --> 00:35:49,540 was sort of a particular color. 509 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,910 And I learned that they had, in fact, painted the road. 510 00:35:54,010 --> 00:35:56,850 And this was the first experience 511 00:35:56,910 --> 00:36:00,050 of the degree of control of color 512 00:36:00,150 --> 00:36:02,990 that Michelangelo had developed, from this 513 00:36:03,050 --> 00:36:07,420 where he's so particular about the color. 514 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:08,520 It's an art. 515 00:36:08,590 --> 00:36:09,720 It's like painting with color. 516 00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:47,460 As very young and not experienced in cinema, 517 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,930 I didn't quite understand why the sun was shining 518 00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:52,570 and we didn't shoot. 519 00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:55,770 And he explained to me that I need the cloud. 520 00:36:55,870 --> 00:36:58,940 It has to be very English, it has to be gloomy. 521 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,980 This was another aspect of the precision, the 522 00:37:02,070 --> 00:37:05,440 artistic precision of his eye. 523 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,120 It was in '94 or '95 524 00:38:19,180 --> 00:38:23,220 I think that I had the extreme good fortune 525 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,890 to find the original blow-ups that feature in the film, 526 00:38:28,990 --> 00:38:30,390 or at least a number of them. 527 00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:33,870 Just over 20 of the original blow-ups with the drawing 528 00:38:33,970 --> 00:38:36,740 pin holes, where Hemmings pinned them to the beam 529 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:37,540 or to the wall. 530 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:53,420 20 of these photographs made in the park showing the couple... 531 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,320 is it a gun in the bushes, is it a body? 532 00:38:56,390 --> 00:39:01,060 That picture story where Thomas, the photographer, thinks he's 533 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:02,560 stumbled on a murder. 534 00:39:02,660 --> 00:39:05,160 The evidence, the evidential pictures. 535 00:39:12,570 --> 00:39:15,740 At first it was a mystery as to who had actually taken them. 536 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,910 Somehow... I forget how the connection was made... 537 00:39:19,010 --> 00:39:21,350 I learnt that it was Don McCullin. 538 00:39:21,410 --> 00:39:25,180 Don McCullin who is such an illustrious reputation 539 00:39:25,250 --> 00:39:31,790 in the history, known for his really powerful war reportage. 540 00:39:31,890 --> 00:39:36,130 He was a great photojournalist covering the great conflicts 541 00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:38,870 of his time. 542 00:39:38,930 --> 00:39:41,400 Antonioni had asked Arthur Evans, 543 00:39:41,470 --> 00:39:43,810 the onset photographer for "Blow-Up," 544 00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:50,870 to take some pictures in a park, which he did, but Arthur 545 00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:54,310 Evans didn't get them right. 546 00:39:54,410 --> 00:39:57,280 They were too clear, too crisp... 547 00:39:57,380 --> 00:39:59,950 ... too professional in a sense. 548 00:40:00,050 --> 00:40:03,950 And Antonioni realized he needed something more gritty, 549 00:40:04,060 --> 00:40:07,130 some... when you blew it up would soon 550 00:40:07,230 --> 00:40:09,730 become this pattern of green. 551 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,000 And through connections, possibly 552 00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:15,670 through Frances Wyndham, because both Frances Wyndham and Don 553 00:40:15,770 --> 00:40:18,240 McCullin were working on "The Sunday Times," 554 00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:20,470 he was introduced to Don McCullin 555 00:40:20,570 --> 00:40:24,070 and saw the gritty style of photography 556 00:40:24,140 --> 00:40:28,750 that he was associated with, and he became the man for the job. 557 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,460 Most crucial, there is a body at the end of the line. 558 00:40:47,970 --> 00:40:51,440 Now, McCullin had been, earlier in the 1960s, 559 00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:55,770 in Cyprus, in other theaters of conflict 560 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,680 where he had photographed bodies. 561 00:41:05,020 --> 00:41:07,560 Ian was invited onto the set 562 00:41:07,650 --> 00:41:12,560 to actually drop some paint on some of the blank canvases. 563 00:41:12,660 --> 00:41:15,900 And there was a bit of floom with his hand doing it. 564 00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:19,560 It did show that was how it was put onto the canvas... 565 00:41:19,660 --> 00:41:23,130 dropped and moved around and counted. 566 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,840 Antonioni did ask Ian about trying 567 00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:31,070 to relate the image on the canvas to the photographs. 568 00:41:31,180 --> 00:41:32,520 And Ian didn't copy them. 569 00:41:32,580 --> 00:41:34,080 He couldn't have copied them. 570 00:41:34,180 --> 00:41:38,320 But he did make some movement on the surface of the paintings 571 00:41:38,380 --> 00:41:41,180 which represented the more abstracted 572 00:41:41,250 --> 00:41:46,760 forms on the blow-up version of the photograph. 573 00:41:46,860 --> 00:41:51,770 Antonioni wanted to double back on his own film 574 00:41:51,860 --> 00:41:56,430 by having it mirrored in a painting by Stephenson. 575 00:41:56,540 --> 00:42:01,410 And so he requests that a painting be made from one 576 00:42:01,510 --> 00:42:06,220 of the stills that Don McCullin had provided... these, 577 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,950 which have such extraordinarily highly 578 00:42:09,050 --> 00:42:11,120 charged atmospheres to them. 579 00:42:11,220 --> 00:42:14,790 Because they show the disappearance of form 580 00:42:14,890 --> 00:42:18,960 in foliage and undergrowth, then for Stephenson 581 00:42:19,060 --> 00:42:24,400 to then step up to that and show forms disappearing 582 00:42:24,460 --> 00:42:26,800 in paint as painted marks. 583 00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:41,740 Don McCullin was the name attached 584 00:42:41,810 --> 00:42:44,280 to the blow-ups made in the park, 585 00:42:44,380 --> 00:42:50,120 but Don McCullin is the name attached to the pictures which 586 00:42:50,220 --> 00:42:53,090 Thomas, the photographer, shows to his agent in the scene 587 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,000 in the restaurant where they're looking 588 00:42:56,090 --> 00:43:00,130 at the maquette of a book which he hopes to publish. 589 00:43:00,230 --> 00:43:02,070 And these pictures are the... they're 590 00:43:02,130 --> 00:43:07,000 the absolute opposite of his his high fashion pictures. 591 00:43:07,110 --> 00:43:10,250 They're his photographs of tramps, down and outs, 592 00:43:10,310 --> 00:43:11,580 people in the east end of London, 593 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,280 the poor, the underbelly of the dark side, 594 00:43:14,350 --> 00:43:18,620 this glamorous city that people talk about as Swinging London. 595 00:43:26,290 --> 00:43:28,190 Peter Bowles had quite an important part 596 00:43:28,290 --> 00:43:30,690 as the agent of Hemmings. 597 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,040 And unfortunately, on one key day 598 00:43:34,130 --> 00:43:37,700 was very upset because Michelangelo had cut 599 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:43,170 quite a long speech, which is central to the meaning 600 00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:44,310 of the film, really. 601 00:43:44,380 --> 00:43:46,650 And so he was saying to the peers, 602 00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:48,810 surely this is very important. 603 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,950 You know, surely I should say this. 604 00:43:51,020 --> 00:43:55,060 And Peter has written very interestingly about how 605 00:43:55,150 --> 00:43:59,690 Michelangelo said, I'll tell you why we have to cut it, 606 00:43:59,790 --> 00:44:02,960 that's because it says what the film's about, 607 00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:06,830 and I prefer people not to be told what the film's about. 608 00:44:09,500 --> 00:44:13,370 The technique of getting the actors to do what it was 609 00:44:13,470 --> 00:44:17,710 that he wanted was slightly different with different actors 610 00:44:17,810 --> 00:44:18,840 in different sequences. 611 00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:28,390 The arrival of Vanessa Redgrave was very interesting 612 00:44:28,490 --> 00:44:32,160 because she hadn't been part of the film up till that time, 613 00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:38,190 and she was very intelligent in working on Antinuromy. 614 00:44:38,260 --> 00:44:42,760 She was proactive in talking to him 615 00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:48,910 and tried to suck out from him what it was that he wanted. 616 00:44:49,010 --> 00:44:51,880 And you could see the intensity of her concentration, 617 00:44:51,940 --> 00:44:55,210 because on the page the character is nothing. 618 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,720 So she couldn't prepare this character. 619 00:45:02,790 --> 00:45:05,230 She's a Shakespearean actress, and she 620 00:45:05,290 --> 00:45:07,190 withdrew all of her Shakespearean technique 621 00:45:07,260 --> 00:45:13,200 out, and simply existed in front of the camera in the situation 622 00:45:13,260 --> 00:45:18,030 intensely, vividly, and had this close relationship 623 00:45:18,100 --> 00:45:20,970 with Antonioni. 624 00:45:21,070 --> 00:45:24,570 Sarah Miles had a... not a very big part. 625 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:30,110 And I think maybe that was a bit of a issue for her. 626 00:45:30,220 --> 00:45:32,220 I think also she didn't get on well 627 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:33,750 with Michelangelo Antonioni. 628 00:45:33,820 --> 00:45:38,790 So things didn't go very well, and then she got annoyed. 629 00:45:38,890 --> 00:45:40,830 I think she got angry. 630 00:45:40,930 --> 00:45:43,230 The relationship with Sarah was an example 631 00:45:43,290 --> 00:45:44,490 of one that did not work. 632 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,770 The relationship with Vanessa did work. 633 00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:52,470 With David, it was different. 634 00:45:52,570 --> 00:45:53,970 He was not technical. 635 00:45:54,070 --> 00:45:56,470 He would kind of, I think, give him 636 00:45:56,570 --> 00:45:59,110 guidelines and get him to improvise, 637 00:45:59,180 --> 00:46:01,350 to feel free and be natural. 638 00:46:05,020 --> 00:46:07,360 One of the most interesting things about the film for me 639 00:46:07,450 --> 00:46:13,460 was working with David Hemmings, because he was enormous fun. 640 00:46:13,530 --> 00:46:17,870 And he had a Jeep. 641 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,160 I think that he had bought the Jeep in order 642 00:46:20,270 --> 00:46:23,510 to hire it to the film. 643 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,040 I don't know how much they paid him per week, 644 00:46:25,140 --> 00:46:30,610 but it was a very clever idea on his part. 645 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,550 We borrowed the Jeep one night and went camping, David 646 00:46:34,650 --> 00:46:38,550 and his girlfriend and I. We found a tent, took the Jeep, 647 00:46:38,650 --> 00:46:41,850 drove out of London, slept in the forest, 648 00:46:41,950 --> 00:46:44,120 and drove back in for filming the next day. 649 00:46:44,190 --> 00:46:46,360 He shouldn't have been allowed to take the Jeep because it's 650 00:46:46,460 --> 00:46:48,500 a prop on the film. 651 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,830 He also occasionally borrowed the Rolls Royce. 652 00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:54,070 He took me and a girlfriend in the Rolls 653 00:46:54,170 --> 00:46:58,580 Royce up and down the King's Road. 654 00:46:58,670 --> 00:47:01,710 David was always keen to have a good time. 655 00:47:01,810 --> 00:47:05,810 Jeep, Rolls Royce, girls, friend, a good time. 656 00:47:13,850 --> 00:47:15,380 The filming actually took place 657 00:47:15,490 --> 00:47:19,360 in the Elstree MGM Studios, which was a great big cabin 658 00:47:19,420 --> 00:47:22,160 of studios, and you walk into this huge studio, 659 00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:24,430 there in one little corner right over there that 660 00:47:24,530 --> 00:47:27,370 just is a nightclub set up. 661 00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:29,370 Because the whole place is cold. 662 00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:30,730 They don't have heating in there. 663 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,540 So to create an atmosphere of warmth and smoke 664 00:47:33,610 --> 00:47:37,180 and all that is really very, very difficult. 665 00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:40,610 I have recently bought a second guitar to the group. 666 00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:42,380 The base player had left. 667 00:47:42,450 --> 00:47:46,020 And Jeff was very keen for Jimmy Page to come in and play base. 668 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,450 And I told Jeff, I don't mind, but he won't play base. 669 00:47:49,550 --> 00:47:50,920 I promise you. 670 00:47:51,020 --> 00:47:53,790 After one day he'll say no, I want to play guitar too. 671 00:47:53,890 --> 00:47:56,730 And I explained to Jeff that he had to smash his guitar. 672 00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:58,630 He just refused at point blank. 673 00:47:58,730 --> 00:48:00,200 Jeff never smashed a guitar. 674 00:48:00,270 --> 00:48:01,100 He loves his guitar. 675 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:02,100 They're his children. 676 00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,140 He nurses them, he strokes them. 677 00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:07,640 He couldn't believe I was asking him to smash his guitar. 678 00:48:07,740 --> 00:48:09,140 But eventually he did agree. 679 00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:11,980 We bought a second guitar from a cheap guitar. 680 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:13,820 And I said, we're not going to smash the guitar. 681 00:48:13,910 --> 00:48:15,140 You just push it through the amp. 682 00:48:15,250 --> 00:48:17,650 You break the amp, but with your guitar. 683 00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:19,320 And he tried a few times in rehearsal 684 00:48:19,420 --> 00:48:21,890 and it went quite well, because the amp broke 685 00:48:21,950 --> 00:48:23,950 without the guitar breaking. 686 00:48:24,060 --> 00:48:26,960 And then at the filming, he really got into it. 687 00:48:27,060 --> 00:48:30,130 He didn't really get into it, but Antonioni called 688 00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:31,230 him out in front of everybody. 689 00:48:31,300 --> 00:48:32,470 He said, Jeff, come on. 690 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:33,730 We've got to do it. 691 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,270 There was a crowd there, the people filming, 692 00:48:35,330 --> 00:48:37,930 and people wanted to go to lunch and it was Take 38. 693 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,170 So finally, Jeff didn't really get angry with the guitar, 694 00:48:40,270 --> 00:48:43,110 he got angry at Antonioni, and he took his anger 695 00:48:43,170 --> 00:48:44,240 and smashes the amp. 696 00:48:44,310 --> 00:48:45,010 Ah, cut. 697 00:48:45,110 --> 00:48:45,780 Lovely. 698 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:46,740 Off to lunch. 699 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:51,850 People often talk as if Yardbirds 700 00:48:51,950 --> 00:48:53,850 was some great influence from Antonioni, 701 00:48:53,950 --> 00:48:56,950 but it's completely the other way around, because Antonioni 702 00:48:57,020 --> 00:48:58,490 sort of broke up the Yardbirds. 703 00:48:58,590 --> 00:49:00,590 Therefore, may have been instrumental in creating 704 00:49:00,660 --> 00:49:01,800 Led Zeppelin. 705 00:49:01,860 --> 00:49:03,860 So we can put Antonioni into rock history. 706 00:49:23,350 --> 00:49:25,620 I had a contract for a certain length of time, 707 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,550 and then I had to leave the film. 708 00:49:28,650 --> 00:49:30,390 And the film overran... 709 00:49:30,490 --> 00:49:32,390 several weeks over. 710 00:49:32,490 --> 00:49:35,560 I didn't know everything, and the script is not 711 00:49:35,660 --> 00:49:38,000 a complete record of the film. 712 00:49:38,060 --> 00:49:40,800 There's stuff in the film which is not in the script, 713 00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:44,240 and the ending is absolutely one of those things. 714 00:49:44,340 --> 00:49:48,910 So when I saw at the screening, I saw the ending, 715 00:49:49,010 --> 00:49:50,710 I was quite astonished. 716 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,080 I don't personally think it's the best 717 00:49:57,180 --> 00:49:58,920 possible ending for that film. 718 00:49:59,020 --> 00:50:01,590 Perhaps there could have been another ending. 719 00:50:01,690 --> 00:50:03,390 But there's wonderful things in the film, 720 00:50:03,490 --> 00:50:04,990 and it was a wonderful experience, 721 00:50:05,060 --> 00:50:11,430 and it was also a very vivid picture of London at that time. 722 00:50:11,530 --> 00:50:13,030 And the fact that it's by an Italian 723 00:50:13,100 --> 00:50:14,870 makes it even more interesting. 724 00:51:35,510 --> 00:51:37,250 Once I'd finished the film, 725 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,790 I sort of was onto the next thing, 726 00:51:39,850 --> 00:51:43,120 and I did have a very exciting working life. 727 00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:45,190 And I'd sort of put it to bed. 728 00:51:45,290 --> 00:51:47,660 But you know these things, if they're good, 729 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,360 they don't go away. 730 00:51:49,460 --> 00:51:51,260 And it's still here. 731 00:51:51,330 --> 00:51:52,430 Still here. 732 00:51:52,500 --> 00:51:55,500 Still being seen and being appreciated. 733 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,200 So I just think back and think what a lucky... 734 00:51:59,300 --> 00:52:03,100 lucky I didn't say no, actually, because I nearly did. 735 00:52:03,170 --> 00:52:05,010 Because I thought I'm not a stupid model. 736 00:52:05,110 --> 00:52:07,480 I don't want to portray a stupid model. 737 00:52:07,550 --> 00:52:08,680 But there we go. 738 00:52:08,780 --> 00:52:10,980 Look at it. 739 00:52:11,050 --> 00:52:12,390 And yeah, very proud of it. 59483

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