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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,600 [female narrator] Sex is the most natural thing in the world 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,760 and most of us lose our virginity in our teens or early twenties. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,560 But for some, problems having intercourse 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,280 follow them into middle age. 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,200 Meet Clive. 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,360 [Clive] There are times when I've cried about it. 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,320 There are times when I've hit various pieces of furniture. 8 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,200 [narrator] And Rosie. 9 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,480 [Rosie] I'm too old to be a virgin and I feel like 10 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,320 there's probably a lot of fun out there that I am not having. 11 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,200 [narrator] They're about to take part in a radical course, 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,120 designed to help adult virgins to have sex. 13 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,440 Vagina, penis, sex. Vagina... 14 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:40,520 Do you feel like kissing? 15 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,440 [narrator] They will be guided by trained professional sex surrogates. 16 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,560 [man] To do this work, it is important to have 17 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,720 a certain skill level, sexually speaking. 18 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,520 [Gasps] That is a clitoris! 19 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:53,840 [woman chuckles] 20 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,240 I've probably had sex with about 850 people. 21 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,760 Not including my husbands. [chuckles] 22 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,520 It's made me feel very, very queasy. 23 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,519 [narrator] They will receive a hands-on sex education 24 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,680 into what goes where... 25 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,200 Oh, yeah, hang on. I'm in the butt-plug section. 26 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,680 [narrator] ...as they battle to overcome any issues around sexual intimacy. 27 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,040 [Rosie] I'm actually going to stop now, 28 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,280 cause I don't find this particularly pleasant. 29 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:19,520 OK. OK. 30 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,800 -I'm sorry. -I don't know what's wrong with me. 31 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:23,920 There's nothing wrong with you. 32 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,360 [narrator] Going all the way is nerve-wracking enough as a teenager. 33 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,840 So what's it like in your forties? 34 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,560 [Clive] I've been a certain way for so long... 35 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,400 I'm scared of the change. 36 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,680 [narrator] The average age to lose your virginity, in the UK, 37 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,920 is now just 16, 38 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,840 and the vast majority of us have had sex 39 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,360 by the time we reach 25. 40 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,480 But there are still around three million adult virgins 41 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,280 in this country. 42 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,800 Forty-five-year-old Clive counts himself among them. 43 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,440 [Clive] It feels unfair, because I know I am 44 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,320 a loving, thoughtful person... 45 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,560 that I want to give that to somebody else. 46 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:15,160 You feel like: 47 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,160 "Is this ever going to happen to me?" 48 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,320 [narrator] Clive is an IT engineer in Hertfordshire 49 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,600 and to most people, wouldn't appear to lack confidence. 50 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,800 [piano melody] ♪ White lips, pale face ♪ 51 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,560 ♪ Breathing in snowflakes ♪ 52 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:31,520 [narrator] But despite being a keen performer, 53 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,200 he's never managed to strike the right chord with the ladies. 54 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,800 [Clive] My self-image is something that I struggle with 55 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,760 because I started to lose my hair at 23. 56 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,280 That didn't do my confidence a lot of good. 57 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,840 I had really bad acne, up until I was 30. 58 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:47,080 It just never went. 59 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,320 All these things made me feel very, very unconfident, 60 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,760 and made me almost regress 61 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,640 into, like, a little... shell. 62 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,520 Pie, Fray Bentos. Come on... 63 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,920 Look at that. That is the food of champions. 64 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,680 [narrator] Clive lived with his mum until he was 29 65 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,640 and although he's had some sexual experience, 66 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,560 his issues around penetration have made it impossible 67 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:10,480 for him to go all the way. 68 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,320 I get told sometimes... You know, I'm chatting to somebody 69 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:13,440 and they say: "Are you gay?" 70 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,680 And I'm going: "No." 71 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,120 I've even questioned it myself, a couple of times. 72 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:20,480 And then I've gone: 73 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:21,560 "No. 74 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:23,760 No. I fancy women." 75 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,960 [narrator] Clive does have girls who are friends... 76 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,600 but like Lindsay, who he's known since college, 77 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,720 they rarely end up as girlfriends. 78 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,480 [Clive] I don't think I give off that vibe 79 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,560 of being a sexual being. 80 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,880 I think girls see me as more of a friend, 81 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,600 yes, than, er... Mr Lover Boy. 82 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,840 [Lindsay] If Clive was to lose his virginity, 83 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,320 I think I would just feel really chuffed for him. 84 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:51,640 And I think I would just think 85 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,120 that this massive weight's gone, 86 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,680 and he can chill out 87 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,080 and have fun and just enjoy life. 88 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:03,880 [narrator] After being alone for so long, 89 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,240 Clive lacks the confidence to chat up women, 90 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:07,680 never mind sleep with them. 91 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,440 [Clive] It's really hard to chat women up in pubs. 92 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,400 You're basically throwing yourself into the lion's den. 93 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:13,520 [Clive chuckles] 94 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,640 If you approach a girl. 95 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,360 It locks me up, to such a point, 96 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,000 where I feel paralyzed, 97 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:23,080 cause my whole body is just going... [groans] 98 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:24,680 It's almost like: "Stop, stop, stop!" 99 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,600 Cheers, buddy. 100 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,400 [Clive] And that's not the way... 101 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:30,720 I should be. 102 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,680 [narrator] Clive's worried he'll never have sex. 103 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,120 But for 40-year-old virgins like Clive, 104 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,040 there's one final chance. 105 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,280 A place in America, where clients are helped to lose their virginity 106 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,680 to qualified sex surrogates. 107 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,280 Therapists who are certified to have sexual intercourse. 108 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,360 I have to do something. 109 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,320 I have to find out maybe the reasons why 110 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,560 I'm the way I've become. 111 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,920 I feel a bit annoyed with myself that I've not dealt with it, 112 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,640 probably, the way other people would... 113 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,120 deal with it, by just... doing it. 114 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,960 [narrator] It's not just men who sometimes have problems 115 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:09,840 losing their virginity. 116 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,240 Twenty-nine-year-old Rosie 117 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,520 is also about to begin a similar course of radical sex therapy 118 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:16,840 in America. 119 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,400 Only, she will be working with a male sex surrogate. 120 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,880 For my first time, for actually losing my virginity, 121 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,920 I think I'd like the other person to really know what they're doing. 122 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,520 If you want the job done, get an expert, I suppose. 123 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,560 [narrator] Irish-born Rosie works in childcare, 124 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,520 but more than anything else, she wants to have kids of her own. 125 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,000 [toy plays "Brahms' Lullaby"] 126 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,560 [Rosie] Well, it does seem that a lot of my friends 127 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,400 are kind of moving on with phases of their life. 128 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,760 They're in serious relationships, they're thinking about marriage. 129 00:05:44,840 --> 00:05:46,360 They're thinking about children. 130 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,760 And, I mean, I'd like to be married. I'd like to have children. 131 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:51,440 I'd really, really like to have children. 132 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:52,840 That's one of my all-time goals. 133 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,640 [narrator] But Rosie's early experiences with boys 134 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,960 have put her off physical contact. 135 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,160 My first kiss was horrible. 136 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,360 Erm... My second kiss was actually... way worse. 137 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,280 And... you know, after that I was just kind of like... 138 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,520 Yeah, I'm just not interested in boys. 139 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,040 I don't know if anybody else experiences this, 140 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,520 but I think guys kind of smell a little bit weird to me. 141 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,480 There's, like, no other smell... 142 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,720 of it, in the world. 143 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,880 It's like kind of a mix between... 144 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,960 aftershave and ham. 145 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,040 [narrator] Rosie suffers from a debilitating pain disorder. 146 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,360 She's never masturbated or had an orgasm 147 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:37,240 and is hoping the therapy will help her to experience sexual pleasure. 148 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,520 Yeah, I mean, I feel like I could be a sexual person. 149 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,360 There's probably a lot of fun out there that I am not having 150 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,800 and I think, at the end of the day, this is going to be good for me 151 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:47,600 and... what have I got to lose? 152 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,680 Besides the obvious. 153 00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:59,280 [narrator] California, on America's West Coast. 154 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,320 A place where dreams come true 155 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,360 and birthplace of Surrogate Partner Therapy. 156 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,760 There are around 40 sex surrogates in the US, certified by 157 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:11,000 the International Professional Surrogates Association. 158 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,440 Many clients currently seeking the surrogates' help 159 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,400 are virgins over 40. 160 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,560 The surrogates train for 12 weeks 161 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:23,240 and when qualified, can earn up to $300 an hour. 162 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,440 I would estimate that I've probably had... 163 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,120 sex with about 850 people. 164 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:29,840 Not including my husbands. 165 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,120 [chuckles] 166 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,480 [narrator] Doyenne of California's sex surrogates 167 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:35,880 Cheryl Cohen Greene 168 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,120 has worked with both male and female clients 169 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,280 for nearly 40 years. 170 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,320 Cheryl has a doctorate in human sexuality 171 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,400 and believes her job is very different from that of a prostitute. 172 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,000 [Cheryl] If you go to a prostitute, it's like going to a restaurant. 173 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,960 They hope you'll like it so much, you enjoy it, you'll come back 174 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,320 and bring friends. 175 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,680 Coming to us is like going to cooking school. 176 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,640 You get the ingredients, the recipe, you mix it all together, enjoy it, 177 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,920 and then you go out into the world and you share it. 178 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,440 [narrator] Surrogate therapy is not widely available outside the US, 179 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,040 and like other sex surrogates, 180 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,160 Cheryl works with clients who have a range of different sexual problems. 181 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,240 What I am is somebody who's a coach, a guide. 182 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,360 I'm taking people to a place where I want them 183 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,760 to go back into the world with all of these good experiences. 184 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,400 It's enriching. 185 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,640 [narrator] The inspirational story of how Cheryl helped a disabled poet 186 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:27,760 lose his virginity, 187 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,400 has been made into a film called The Sessions. 188 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,760 Helen Hunt, who plays Cheryl, was even nominated for an Oscar. 189 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,559 I think the fact that people are so weird about sex... 190 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,559 This movie is sort of an argument for the opposite of that 191 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,360 and I get to play a woman who's really not weird about sex. 192 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,240 [narrator] Despite being 68, 193 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,800 and having overcome breast cancer, 194 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,160 Cheryl has no plans to retire. 195 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,120 [Cheryl] I feel like I'm in good shape. 196 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,520 I work out, I try to stay strong. 197 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,960 You know, who knows? I may be the only 100-year-old surrogate. 198 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,720 [Clive] Stunning. Oh, look at the skyline! 199 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,200 Wow! 200 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,280 Wow, look at that! 201 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:09,600 [narrator] Cheryl will spend the next two weeks 202 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:12,960 helping Clive take daily steps towards losing his virginity 203 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:14,120 while in America. 204 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,640 [Clive] I'm excited about what's to come. 205 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,840 And also nervous about what's to come. 206 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,720 [narrator] Clive grew up with Christian beliefs 207 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,600 and was taught sex before marriage was wrong. 208 00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:26,840 So today is a step into the unknown. 209 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,600 [Clive] It feels partly like I'm breaking a law. 210 00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:32,720 It feels like I'm doing something wrong. 211 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:37,240 I feel I've got to that point where I have to do something. 212 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,280 And it scares me a little bit. 213 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,160 It scares me a lot. 214 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,560 [narrator] Each surrogate program is tailored around the client 215 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,400 and Clive's bespoke course of therapy will take place at Cheryl's home, 216 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,320 just outside San Francisco. 217 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,200 -[Cheryl] Hi. -Hi. Hi. 218 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,200 -Hi, how are you? -I'm good. Nice to meet you. 219 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,720 It's such a... Oh, give me a hug! 220 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,080 -It's a pleasure to meet you. -Nice to meet you. 221 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,400 So... how are you feeling? 222 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,680 Erm... petrified. 223 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,320 That is perfectly natural. 224 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:08,520 -Yeah? -Yes. 225 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,120 What I'm wondering is, what are you most concerned about? 226 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,760 Like today. Do you have any expectations or concerns? 227 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,880 I feel a bit of, like, a failure. 228 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:24,560 Having to do something that's so out of normality, 229 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,880 to get myself back on track. 230 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,040 This is the first part of the process. 231 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:34,360 And this process is one of gradual increases of intimacy. 232 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,720 I think one step that we could take today 233 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,760 would be doing a hand caress. 234 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,120 If it sounds alright to you. 235 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:44,920 Yeah. 236 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,160 [Cheryl, softly] It's OK. Nobody's done this, right? 237 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,880 -To your fingers. -Never before. 238 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,560 [Cheryl] Just notice how it feels. 239 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,200 It might feel strange. It might feel sensual. 240 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,520 For some people, it could feel sexual. 241 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,400 -I want you to touch my hand for me. -OK. 242 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,000 [Clive exhales deeply] 243 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,160 Can you put words to it? 244 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:13,720 What you're feeling? 245 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,320 I've got this little battle going on. 246 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,400 Alright. 247 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,360 Who's fighting who? 248 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,040 I'm fighting me. 249 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:23,760 On the one hand, I feel... 250 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:25,360 aroused... 251 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,440 but feel that I shouldn't... 252 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:30,800 You shouldn't feel that? 253 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,880 When you smell a flower, do you feel guilty, 254 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,680 if it smells good and you find yourself feeling good about the smell? 255 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,040 -[Clive] No. - We're allowed to feel. 256 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:40,920 And arousal is a good thing. 257 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,720 [narrator] Although he's recently begun to question his religious beliefs... 258 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,000 [man] Would you like some water, Clive? 259 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:48,880 [narrator] ...Clive's struggled to overcome the idea 260 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,160 that sex outside marriage is wrong. 261 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,200 [whispers] Let me have a drink first. 262 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,240 I feel my... 263 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,960 my whole brain's scrambled, at the moment. 264 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,520 Oh, I like him. I really do. 265 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,080 And for him to feel bad about being aroused 266 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:19,640 by touching my hand... 267 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,320 I mean, it just made me sad. 268 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,320 It's gonna be difficult for him. 269 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,360 It's gonna take... I... I hope we have enough time. 270 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,640 [narrator] The vast majority of us lose our virginity 271 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,200 in our late teens or early twenties. 272 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:40,800 But for those who miss the boat, 273 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:42,560 more drastic action may be required. 274 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,680 Forty-five-year-old Clive has just begun 275 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,120 a two-week course of surrogate sex therapy in San Francisco, 276 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,000 to help him finally go all the way. 277 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:54,480 [Clive] I think it's the start of something. 278 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:58,160 It's the start of me dealing with a lot of different issues. 279 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,520 And that's scary and exciting. 280 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,640 But at the moment, scary's more... more prominent. 281 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,120 [narrator] As well as working with a sex surrogate, 282 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:14,200 the therapy also involves daily sessions with a clinical psychologist. 283 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,040 -[Clive] Hello. Nice to meet you. -[woman] Hi. 284 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:18,520 -Nice to meet you, too. -Nice to meet you. 285 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,800 -Come on in. Have a seat. -Thank you very much. 286 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,320 [narrator] Dr Naomi O'Keefe wants to get to the bottom 287 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,800 of why Clive finds it difficult to even talk about sex. 288 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,240 I was introduced to a... erm... 289 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,160 youth group, when I was younger, 290 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,400 which was affiliated with a local church. 291 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,200 One of the religious, erm... teachings 292 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,280 was, erm... 293 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:42,800 no sex before marriage. 294 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,760 What is the definition of sex? 295 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:45,760 [laughs] 296 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,640 -Yeah... -[Naomi laughs] 297 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,280 -That's a corker of a question. -Yeah, it's really important. 298 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,280 I'm kind of pushing you to tell me what people are doing. 299 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,520 -What are they doing? -Yeah... 300 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,080 -It's the physical act. -What physical act? 301 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:01,600 Oh, don't... It's just hard. 302 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:03,680 This is really hard. 303 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:06,680 Tell me what you're experiencing right now. 304 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,440 Take your time. 305 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,160 -It's the words that just kill me. -Mm-hm... 306 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,640 -What words are you thinking? -[Chuckles] 307 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,720 -Penis and vagina. -Mm-hm. 308 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:25,640 OK. 309 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,840 -I can see how difficult this is for you. -[Clive breathes deeply] 310 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,560 [Clive breathes deeply] 311 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,760 Uh... Here's what I would suggest, if you want to play around with this. 312 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,440 I want you to make a short list of the most unspeakable words. 313 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,560 Penis, you know. 314 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,440 Clitoris, clitoris, clitoris. You know... 315 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,680 And then, um... Take those words, 316 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,640 stand in front of the mirror, 317 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,400 and say the word over and over and over and over 318 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,440 and over again, till it seems completely ridiculous. 319 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,080 And I have a feeling that by the time you get 320 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,200 about halfway down the list, 321 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,920 the rest of the words will have already lost their charge. 322 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,520 [Naomi] He's an excellent candidate for surrogate therapy. 323 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,160 I can see how he's hurting. 324 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,360 He has a lot of anxiety going on. 325 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:17,640 [car horn] 326 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:22,440 But I am concerned about the severity of what he's feeling 327 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,400 around the language. 328 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,320 That's pretty strong. 329 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,280 [narrator] Three hundred miles away, in Los Angeles, 330 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,400 virgin Rosie is also about to begin 331 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,480 a two-week course of surrogate sex therapy. 332 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,800 She's meeting the therapist who will introduce her 333 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,800 to the male sex surrogate. 334 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,480 [Rosie] The endgame, for me, would be to actually lose my virginity 335 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,840 in a safe environment where I have complete control. 336 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,640 And then, if it turns out that I enjoy sex, 337 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,040 well, then, brilliant! 338 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,680 What was I so worried about? 339 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,480 [knocking] 340 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,120 -Hello. -Hello! 341 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,280 -It's good to meet you. Come on in. -Good to meet you, too. 342 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,840 [narrator] Dr Marilyn Lawrence has worked as a sex therapist 343 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,920 in Beverly Hills, for almost 40 years. 344 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,040 [Dr Lawrence] Tell me, why this, why now? 345 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,400 I guess I'm just at the age where I kind of think 346 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,920 that it's a bit silly for me 347 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,840 to be afraid of sex, if I ever want to kind of get married 348 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,560 and have children, which is... 349 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:21,840 That's my big goal 350 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,200 and it's about time that I did something about it. 351 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,560 It was just the... sort of the idea, 352 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,560 I think just terrified me. 353 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,480 [narrator] Rosie believes her fear of intimacy 354 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,000 stems from a traumatic childhood experience. 355 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,680 [Dr Lawrence] Let's go back to what's happened in your life. 356 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,480 Well, essentially, I was... 357 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,120 sexually abused, when I was younger. 358 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:43,160 So... 359 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,840 So your connection to sexuality is distress? 360 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:49,200 Yeah. 361 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,000 How are you going to be, working with a man you don't know? 362 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,440 I think it's a better option for me. 363 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,400 To have somebody that's actually professional 364 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,440 and would know what to do with me. 365 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,720 Uh-huh. You're a brave young woman. 366 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,319 Doing this. Good for you. 367 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,000 [Narrator] Dr Lawrence has asked the surrogate, Gary Mallinckrodt, 368 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:08,560 to join them. 369 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:09,920 [Doorbell] 370 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,960 Hello! Come on in! 371 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,520 [narrator] This is the first time Rosie has seen the man 372 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:16,160 she hopes to lose her virginity to. 373 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,119 -Hello. -[Dr Lawrence] Gary and Rosie. 374 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:19,319 -Hi. -[Gary] Hi. 375 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,440 [Rosie] Good to meet you. 376 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,839 This is your time, Rosie, to ask Gary anything you want to ask. 377 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,040 Well, I don't really know what to ask you. 378 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,320 That's the problem. That's kind of putting me on the spot a little bit. 379 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,680 [Dr Lawrence] Yes, it did, didn't it? 380 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,040 If I happen to say to you: "I can't do this 381 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:37,240 because you just smell off to me today," 382 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,080 you're not going to be offended by that? 383 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,480 -No, no. -OK. Thank goodness. 384 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,840 Yeah, I'll go and take a shower or whatever needs to be done. 385 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,040 OK. Alright. 386 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:50,400 Well, he doesn't smell bad. Er.. which is a great thing, erm... 387 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,120 I did have a little moment of "Oh, God, what am I doing?" 388 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,200 and "If I run now, maybe I can make it back to the airport". 389 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:02,840 [narrator] The demand for male surrogates 390 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,720 is less than for women, 391 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,920 and Gary, a former tennis pro turned counselor, 392 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,920 is one of just five men in America certified to work. 393 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,480 [Dr Lawrence] I think the job of the male surrogate 394 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,440 is more difficult than the job of the female surrogate. 395 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,400 I think that they really have to pay attention to, uh... 396 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,080 the psyche of the woman. 397 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,440 [Gary] To do this work, it is important to have... 398 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,440 a certain skill level, sexually speaking. 399 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,120 This guy's good. 400 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,800 [Gary] I think it is a little more difficult, 401 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,200 as a male surrogate, 402 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,360 to work with women, than the other way around. 403 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,160 And then, of course, 404 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,400 female surrogates don't have the problem of... 405 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,080 maintaining an erection. 406 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,280 -[Gary] Go ahead and close your eyes. -[Rosie] OK. 407 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,520 [Gary] All you have to do is just simply... 408 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,840 feel them, experience them... 409 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,960 [narrator] The therapy involves increases of intimacy 410 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:01,440 towards sexual intercourse 411 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,800 and is tailored around the client's needs. 412 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,680 [Gary] Next object. 413 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,320 The idea here is... 414 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,840 a focus on sensations. 415 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,920 [narrator] Gary's beginning with an object-touching exercise, 416 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,480 which he hopes will establish a level of trust. 417 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,920 The core ingredient to this relationship 418 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,400 is the quality of the bond 419 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,080 between the surrogate and the client. 420 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,400 [Gary] How was that for you? 421 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,560 Erm, yeah... That was OK, 422 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:32,960 but what I did get 423 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,880 - and I think it might've been because you were facing me more head-on - 424 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,840 was a sense of that smell that's usually the signal for me 425 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,560 to say to myself: "How soon can I get away, now?" 426 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,760 Anything that you tell me, 427 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,480 I'm not going to take personally. 428 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:49,880 OK... 429 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,360 One thing I should really say is that, erm... 430 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,400 I don't actually feel attracted to you. 431 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,640 Erm... 432 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,080 Which I was kind of worried about saying, 433 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,800 cause that's kind of a mean thing to say, really, isn't it? 434 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,840 [Gary] You know, your honesty is just perfect. 435 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,520 [Rosie] It's not that he's not a good-looking guy, 436 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,560 because he is quite a good-looking guy. 437 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,480 He's just not my type. So I thought that that might be an issue 438 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,960 that might arise while we were doing the therapy. 439 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:14,880 I mean, it's a bit rich for me to be saying this. 440 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,080 I'm no oil painting myself. 441 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:23,320 [Gary] It's not anything that will cause problems with this work, 442 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,040 because it's really not about attraction, 443 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,720 so much as it is about her learning about herself, 444 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,240 her learning about a man: me. 445 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,840 [Clive] Penis. Penis. Penis. 446 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,720 [Giggling] Penis. Penis. 447 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,880 This is so silly. 448 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,360 OK. Vagina. 449 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,080 Vagina. Vagina. Vagina. 450 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,560 Vagina. Vagina. 451 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,240 That's quite hard to say, actually, quite fast. 452 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:52,720 Vagina. 453 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,080 Shagging... 454 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,000 My homework was... 455 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,280 to write down, erm... 456 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,520 words that I find difficult to say. 457 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,240 Words that I think... 458 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,320 feel loaded, to me. 459 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,920 And for me to say them so many times 460 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,680 that they lose their meaning and lose their power. 461 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,280 Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. 462 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:18,200 Fuck. Fuck. 463 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:20,960 Interesting. 464 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,840 Clitoris. Clitoris. Clitoris. 465 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,320 Wow, that's an interesting exercise. 466 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,280 "Fuck" I found... 467 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:33,280 actually was OK, 468 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:37,760 which I thought that I might... have a problem with that one. 469 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,960 -[man] Cock? -"Cock"? Yeah. 470 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,720 Just saying it's ridiculous. 471 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,920 You know, it's just words. Just letters put together 472 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,880 to make a sound, that's all it is. 473 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,320 [narrator] Clive is two days into his course of therapy. 474 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,320 With his homework going well, 475 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:56,760 sex surrogate Cheryl 476 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,360 wants to move things on from the hand-holding session. 477 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,840 -I was just thinking of something. -Mm-hm. 478 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,120 See the position we're sitting in? Really close like this? 479 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:09,040 Do you feel like kissing? 480 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:10,520 A little? 481 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,680 I feel like kissing you. 482 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,080 Would... 483 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:15,760 Would you consider it? 484 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,040 -We don't have to do anything. -OK. 485 00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:19,320 -Would you? -OK. 486 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,200 Oh, good. 487 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,600 [whispers] Oh, I don't know what's wrong with me. 488 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,000 -Not to worry. It's alright. -I don't know what's wrong with me. 489 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,880 There's nothing wrong with you. 490 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,000 [Clive sobs] 491 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,000 It's OK. 492 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,880 It really is. 493 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,400 People think that the work that I do is mechanical. 494 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,800 I feel for people who are as brave as he is. 495 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,040 And he... Particularly knowing how long 496 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,320 he has struggled with this, 497 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,960 and he's ready and it's so emotionally... 498 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,280 I get all, you know... emotional, 499 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:18,320 because I see that happening, 500 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,160 and I know what a big step it is for him. 501 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,800 I am crying because I'm so happy... 502 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,080 that you're letting yourself feel this with me. 503 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,440 And, um... 504 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,960 that I'm privileged enough to be a part of this journey with you. 505 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,440 Really. 506 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,600 [Clive] I know this whole experience is going to change me. 507 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,840 I've been a certain way for so long... 508 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,000 I'm scared of the change. 509 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:22,960 [narrator] Rosie is on a two-week course 510 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,160 of surrogate sex therapy in LA, 511 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,240 designed to help her lose her virginity. 512 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,760 [Gary] Um... may I have permission to... 513 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,560 caress your face and your hair? 514 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,480 -Yes, you may. -And your neck a little bit? 515 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:36,920 -Yes, you may. -OK. 516 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,400 [narrator] She's attending daily sessions 517 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,000 with professional sex surrogate Gary, 518 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,480 who's beginning to explore physical contact for the first time. 519 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,600 -How are you doing? -I'm doing absolutely fine. 520 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,080 Thank you. 521 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,320 If I had to explain how I felt, it was more like I was kind of annoyed. 522 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,400 OK. OK. 523 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,120 I'm actually going to stop now, 524 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,760 because I don't find this particularly pleasant. 525 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,320 Oh, that's fine. That's fine. Absolutely. 526 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,640 You were kind of sweating, up around your temple, as well, 527 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,920 and that, for me, was kind of off-putting. 528 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,160 Well... and you can totally say no to this, 529 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,520 but would you like to try it again a little bit? 530 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,160 -I don't think so. Not today. -OK, that's good. 531 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,960 -Would you like to wash your hands? -Yes, please. 532 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,560 -Go for it. -Thank you. 533 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,040 [Gary] OK. 534 00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:31,360 [narrator] Rosie's dislike of touching men 535 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,400 partly stems from the abuse she suffered as a child 536 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,880 and she's decided to talk to therapist Dr Lawrence. 537 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,280 [Dr Lawrence] You need to... 538 00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:41,680 give the little girl in you a voice, 539 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,960 and a voice that you can say: "I felt abused." 540 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,120 If you were that little girl right now, what would you want to say to him? 541 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,280 Pretend that I'm him. Tell me about what I've done to you. 542 00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,680 I want to tell you that... 543 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,520 I hate you. 544 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,800 For it. Because you've ruined me. 545 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,880 You have ruined... 546 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,520 -part of me. -You're giving me too much power. 547 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,720 The time has come to say "No. Nobody's gonna hurt me anymore". 548 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,080 OK. 549 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,480 -OK? -Yeah. 550 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,120 Yeah. You know what you might do? You might take a piece of paper, 551 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,360 write the name, 552 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:18,960 burn up those pieces. 553 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,960 You do something or throw 'em in the garbage. 554 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,000 I mean real garbage. 555 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,160 This is where you belong, right there. 556 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,640 -Mm. OK. I can do that. -Yeah. 557 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,320 Giving her something to do around the abuse, 558 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:33,600 just gives her like: 559 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,280 "I'm going to tear you up and I'm going to throw you away, 560 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:39,360 and you're not going to mean anything and you're gone". 561 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:45,880 [Rosie] It did force me to grow up, 562 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,320 because it was at a time when I would've been transitioning 563 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,120 from a little girl into a young woman. 564 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,720 But I wasn't really ready for that. 565 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,960 So I have to almost kind of reclaim that part of my childhood that I lost. 566 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,560 [narrator] Clive is halfway through his course of therapy. 567 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,080 Despite struggling in a kissing session, 568 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,960 he's upbeat about working towards having sex with surrogate Cheryl. 569 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,320 Vagina, vagina, vagina, vagina, vagina, vagina, 570 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:20,720 vagina, vagina! 571 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,000 Clitoris... 572 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,640 [Clive] It's really weird, because I do feel I barely know her. 573 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,080 Oh, my God, it's cold! 574 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,760 [Clive] The whole process is very strange, 575 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,080 but I'm comfortable with her 576 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,480 leading me through it. 577 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,880 Sex! Penis! Vagina! Clitoris! 578 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,960 Er... knob! 579 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,520 I can see the potential. I can see what... 580 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,720 what possibly is round the corner. 581 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,040 Vagina. Penis. Sex. 582 00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:54,200 Vagina... 583 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,760 [Clive] It's new feelings, new sensations, 584 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,600 and... 585 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,160 I think I'm teaching myself not to... 586 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,480 erm... 587 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,680 beat myself up about... the way I've been. 588 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,680 [narrator] His confidence growing, Clive has agreed to join Cheryl 589 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:15,920 in the bedroom, for today's session, 590 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,240 for which she's planned a semi-naked body caress. 591 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,360 [Cheryl] It's taking the fear out of it, 592 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,560 and the more he explores, and he's not hurting anybody... 593 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,880 We're discovering and learning together, 594 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,920 and to normalize it would be ideal. 595 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,280 We're not doing anything wrong. 596 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,280 [Cheryl] Do you want to stay in your jeans? 597 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,760 [indistinct chatter] 598 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,080 [both laugh] 599 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,880 [soft moaning] 600 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,600 [narrator] For Clive, the session has been a sexual awakening. 601 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,680 Yeah. I had a feeling that I'd never had before, 602 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,160 which was... quite... 603 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,680 A bit mind-blowing. 604 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,760 -[man] Can you describe it? -Just, er... 605 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,320 Pleasure. [chuckles] 606 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,000 But a different... Yeah. 607 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,480 A different type of pleasure, which was... 608 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,280 very erotic. 609 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,840 [chuckles] 610 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,320 Oh, baby! 611 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:05,800 [chuckles] 612 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,800 [Gary] You let me know. 613 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,600 [Rosie] This all sounds really, really dirty. 614 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,480 [Both chuckle] 615 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,080 [narrator] Entering the second phase of her therapy with Gary, 616 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,600 and Rosie is beginning to conquer her lifelong fear 617 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,600 of physical intimacy with men. 618 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,280 I imagine you're getting a little more used to the hairy parts. 619 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,240 [Rosie] Yeah. 620 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,840 [Rosie] I don't see men as the enemy anymore. 621 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,440 He is making it way, way easier 622 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,960 for me to do these things, because he's been so understanding 623 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,760 and so... kind of knowledgeable about my little quirks and things, 624 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,960 so he's able to cope with them. 625 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:44,640 I'm still not attracted to him, but I am very comfortable with him. 626 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,320 [narrator] Gary's worked as a sex surrogate 627 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,720 since the mid-nineties, 628 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,840 and he's optimistic about Rosie's progress. 629 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:52,720 [Gary] This work is rewarding. 630 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,920 There's not a caveat 631 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,640 against enjoying oneself. 632 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,920 It's natural. It's part of developing the relationship with the client. 633 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,680 Sex is fun. 634 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,560 [narrator] Gary's also begun to explore full nudity with Rosie... 635 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,640 who has never seen a naked man, in the flesh, before. 636 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,920 [Rosie] I suppose it was not so much looking at it, 637 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,680 but, like, feeling it against me was going to be the thing 638 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:18,880 that would have set me off. 639 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,520 But I did feel it against me and... you know, it was OK. 640 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,160 -I think that's enough for today. -Yeah. 641 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,360 [Gary] Having me nude and her clothed... 642 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:29,600 Huge stuff for her. 643 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,880 The biggest step she's taken so far. 644 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,600 [Rosie] I suppose it looks kind of like... 645 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,440 an uncooked sausage, and it's not the most... 646 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:39,920 attractive thing in the world. 647 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,840 -You've really done good stuff. -Thanks. 648 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,600 [Rosie] Yeah, I could probably get to find it attractive, 649 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,280 after a bit more exposure to it, I guess. 650 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,040 [narrator] Clive is facing an even bigger step. 651 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,960 Cheryl's plan for today's session is for them both to be naked. 652 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,640 Clive finds it very difficult 653 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,640 for someone to see him completely undressed. 654 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,080 Yeah, I'm feeling a little... 655 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,000 Well, very... 656 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,640 self-conscious. 657 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,000 Is that because of what I suggested that we try? 658 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,320 Just being totally nude. 659 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,560 -Yeah. Being honest. -OK. 660 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:18,520 Mm-hm. 661 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,600 I'll tell you, everybody I've ever done this exploration with 662 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,520 goes through a level of anxiety. 663 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,400 Baring all makes you feel really vulnerable. 664 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,840 I felt OK yesterday. Even though I was, you know... 665 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,600 half kit out. 666 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,280 Today is a bit like a... 667 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,720 Yeah... 668 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,800 A moment. 669 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,680 [Clive] I feel so silly. 670 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,640 [narrator] By the end of the session, 671 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,480 Clive has been unable to remove his underpants. 672 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,840 So are you more physically concerned about your genitals being exposed? 673 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,880 Or is it that...? 674 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,520 I've probably seen more men's genitals 675 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,280 than you'll ever see in your whole life. 676 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,120 [Both chuckle] 677 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,600 -That's true. -It is true. 678 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,960 I mean, I even had a client who didn't have a penis. 679 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,440 [Cheryl] Well, we reached that... 680 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:22,560 We were talking about hurdles 681 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,480 and he had gone over a lot of hurdles till he got to today, 682 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,720 when we got down to the underpants. 683 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,040 And he just felt... 684 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,240 this is the biggest struggle. 685 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,360 You know, it's like jumping into the abyss. 686 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,320 Really, we've hit it. 687 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,520 -[Cheryl, soothing] Mmm... -[Clive takes deep breath] 688 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,600 [Clive] Ahhh... 689 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,000 Yes... 690 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,240 [Cheryl] We have five more days. 691 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,360 I'm not sure whether he'll lose his virginity, by the end of this process. 692 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:54,480 I'm really not. 693 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,840 [narrator] There are just a few days of therapy left. 694 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,520 If Rosie's going to have sex before leaving, 695 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,360 she needs to learn how to enjoy sexual pleasure. 696 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,440 Her therapist, Dr Lawrence, has suggested buying a sex toy. 697 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,600 [Dr Lawrence] Rosie hasn't really looked at her body, 698 00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:26,480 and so if she looks at 699 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,560 her mons area and her labia 700 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:32,199 and spreads the lips and sees if she can find her clitoris, 701 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,480 and finds out where her vagina is and... 702 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,840 You know... And just look. 703 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,159 Er, it's clit sensitizer. 704 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,840 I didn't even know this existed. 705 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:46,520 [whirring] 706 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,719 Yeah, quite nice. 707 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,480 [narrator] Rosie has never masturbated 708 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,560 or had an orgasm. 709 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,360 This is kind of terrifying. 710 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:00,760 [Sighs deeply] 711 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,080 It you look it's actually... 712 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:04,960 almost the size of my arm. 713 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,400 Where would you even think of putting that? 714 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,000 Well, I suppose I just think, because I've never... 715 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,240 I'm still such a beginner about all this kind of thing. 716 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,800 Erm, I think even getting my head around 717 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,920 the fact that I might be having sex soon is... 718 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,080 That's enough for me. And then, this is just like... 719 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,000 throwing me in at the deep end. 720 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,760 It's trying to figure out what all of these things do. 721 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,440 "Evil Pink Ass Tickler"... 722 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,160 Oh, yeah, hang on. I'm in the butt-plug section. 723 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,760 Something like this would be, I'd say, more my speed. 724 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,720 Kind of like an iPod, I guess. The iPod of vibrators. 725 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,040 -Thank you. -Bye. 726 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,560 [narrator] Having bought the smallest vibrator in the shop, 727 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,880 Rosie is hoping the Earth will finally move for her. 728 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,680 [Rosie] Yeah. I suppose, for me, it would be kind of a personal disaster, 729 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,400 if I couldn't feel some sort of sexual pleasure, 730 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,600 even after doing all of this, but... 731 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,240 I'm not going to know until I try it, so... 732 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,920 This is what I'm doing. I'm trying. 733 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:15,520 [whirring] 734 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,680 [narrator] There are now just a few days left 735 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,880 for these adult virgins to have sex, 736 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,720 before they have to leave America. 737 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,560 Who knows? Today could be our lucky day. What do you think? 738 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,400 [narrator] After failing to get naked with his sex surrogate, 739 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,560 45-year-old Clive has been reflecting on a childhood incident, 740 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,520 which led to his lack of confidence around women. 741 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,800 [Clive] When I was younger, 742 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,920 I remember going on a, er... 743 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,880 a little, er... trip with a load of friends. 744 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,720 We just went down to this lake, 745 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,080 had a picnic... 746 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,080 You know, it was all quite good fun. 747 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,680 Until this guy decided "Hey, this is a really good idea", 748 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,320 and decided to pull my shorts down, 749 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,080 and, basically, my pants came down with it, 750 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,480 in front of a group of girls, 751 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,760 and then pointed out my penis and laughed. 752 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,880 I felt like... everybody was watching me. 753 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,240 If felt like everything had slowed down. 754 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,320 It made me feel insecure about... 755 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:21,400 my bits. 756 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,240 He'd done something in front of a group of people 757 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,720 that were my friends, and it was something, like, really... 758 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,560 Just a horrible thing to do. 759 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,760 [exhales deeply] 760 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:44,840 [narrator] With so little time left, 761 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,240 sex surrogate Cheryl thinks Clive's therapy 762 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,680 is at a critical stage. 763 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,560 [Cheryl] Um, I'm concerned that the older he gets, 764 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,560 the more, you know, he might not go forward. 765 00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,240 You know, I don't want to get in his face 766 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,400 and start making him feel... you know, "You've got to do this!", 767 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,800 but there's a part of me that would like to say that. 768 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,480 "Come on, I'm going to pull these pants down and I'll keep my eyes closed." 769 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,120 It's like with kids, when they're learning to walk. 770 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,160 [narrator] After years of uncertainty about being naked, 771 00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:18,200 for Clive, it's now or never. 772 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,840 Oh, these are cute. I love them. 773 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,720 -[Cheryl] Like a bumblebee. -Yeah. My heart's racing. 774 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,040 -OK. -Calm down. 775 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,480 -OK. We're down here. -OK. 776 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,880 Get this over. I'm going down. 777 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,920 -[Clive] After three... -Oh. 778 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,640 -You've gone. Right. Now... -Fantastic. 779 00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:38,720 -[Clive] I'm out. -You're out! 780 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,000 -[Clive chuckles nervously] -Fantastic! Give me a hug. 781 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,720 Oh, good! OK! 782 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,040 You did it. 783 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,080 Oh, good. Just breathe. 784 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,880 Oh, you have a nice tush. I can see it in the mirror. 785 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,480 [Clive chuckles] 786 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,360 I feel pretty damn amazing, actually, at the moment. 787 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,720 I feel really proud, because... 788 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,040 I decided, "Right, just gonna go ahead and do it," 789 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,680 and I did. 790 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,160 To me, that's probably like the... 791 00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:12,920 the toughest thing that I think I've ever had to do. 792 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,400 His penis is like the classic... 793 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:16,960 It, you know... 794 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,840 Kids teasing you because your penis looks too small. 795 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,760 But then, let it grow. 796 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,400 It grew. It's beautiful. 797 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,360 It's fine. 798 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,000 [Gasps] That is a clitoris! 799 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,120 [narrator] After his breakthrough in the practical, 800 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:31,400 it's time for some theory, 801 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,840 and Cheryl's bringing out the textbooks. 802 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,080 -Ooh! -Are you OK? 803 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:38,080 [Clive titters] 804 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,160 Very different. 805 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,880 This one looks a little sore right there. 806 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,440 But this one... Look at it. 807 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,520 -Are you OK? -Yeah! [sighs] 808 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,240 This is a friend of mine. 809 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:54,760 -I know who that is. -[Clive chuckles] 810 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,440 She's not here! 811 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,520 Clitorises come in different sizes, too. This book doesn't have 812 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,320 a real big one in it. 813 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,080 -Look at this! -[Clive chuckles] 814 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,240 Isn't that amazing? How different she is? 815 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,000 And they're all... 816 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,640 unique. 817 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:12,920 I'm all done. 818 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,400 Breathe. 819 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:17,680 [Clive] Oh... 820 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,320 Ooh... 821 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,040 [Cheryl] The point of showing the labia photographs 822 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,760 is to show a person how different we all are. 823 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,960 And when he gets to a point where he's going to be intimate 824 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:33,160 with a partner, 825 00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:35,480 it's really good to know what your partner looks like. 826 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:38,920 [exhales deeply] 827 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,560 It's made me feel very, very queasy. 828 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:46,840 [exhales deeply] 829 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,560 [car horn] 830 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:50,880 [narrator] In Los Angeles, 831 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,320 Rosie's experiment with the mini sex toy 832 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:54,720 has not gone well. 833 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,440 [Rosie] I can't really describe it. It was really weird. 834 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,200 I suppose that's kind of normal, to feel that way, 835 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,080 if you've never done anything like that before. 836 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,640 I couldn't say that I felt any pleasure, you know? 837 00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:06,960 But, erm... 838 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,080 It was really weird. It might get better, I don't know. 839 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:10,440 I'm supposed to keep practicing. 840 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,720 [narrator] It's not just the sex toy 841 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,640 which has failed to get Rosie's motor running. 842 00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:22,600 -Good temperature for the water? -Yeah. Perfect. 843 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,200 [narrator] After almost two weeks with Gary, 844 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,400 things have not become sexual. 845 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,160 Well, you see, the problem is I'm not attracted to Gary. 846 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:32,680 So it's more a kind of teacher-student relationship. 847 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,720 I think, if I'm going to be looking for pleasure of the sexual kind, 848 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,520 I'm going to have to look elsewhere, really. 849 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,040 [narrator] Rosie feels things have gone far enough with Gary 850 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,720 and she's ready to go home. 851 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,280 [Dr Lawrence] Well, women see their sexuality 852 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,320 different than men do. 853 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,600 Women may look to... 854 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,400 the surrogate and think: 855 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,360 "Is this what I want my partner to look like?" 856 00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:58,880 So, good for her. 857 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,960 She's on the road to finding out about her sexuality. 858 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,400 I'm pleased with that. 859 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,240 Live your life well. 860 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,640 -I will, I will. I promise I will. -OK. 861 00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:12,560 Gary. Thank you so much again for everything. 862 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,120 The sex is the smallest part of this. 863 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,080 It's about relationship, 864 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,160 it's about teaching. 865 00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:21,520 She's developed a level of confidence 866 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,280 that she didn't have... 867 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:24,720 coming into this. 868 00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:30,040 [Rosie] Well, what I said at the start, that, ideally, I'd like to get married 869 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,160 and I'd like to have kids, 870 00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:33,480 you know, but... 871 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,880 There's so many other things I'd like to do, as well. 872 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,800 I've come out of this experience... I'm still a virgin. 873 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,160 But I actually don't care now. 874 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,200 [narrator] It's Clive's final session with surrogate Cheryl. 875 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,760 In a few hours' time, he'll be on a plane home. 876 00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,680 I've learnt so much about sex and my attitude towards it. 877 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,400 Before, my knowledge... 878 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,160 was pretty much zip. 879 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,320 [narrator] For Clive, the relationship with Cheryl 880 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,120 has gone beyond the physical. 881 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,200 [Clive] It does touch on emotional levels. 882 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,520 It wouldn't work if it was just clinical, I don't think. 883 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:26,080 There has to be an amount of... love. 884 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:27,800 [man] Love? 885 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,680 Yeah. Yeah. 886 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,920 Yeah, I'd say that. 887 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,200 [Cheryl] With my clients, 888 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,560 I have to really care about them 889 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,800 and I do feel a level of love for them. 890 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,240 Something always happens 891 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,040 and that is a part of this beautiful process. 892 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,600 [narrator] Clive is the latest 893 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,720 in a list of 850 clients, for Cheryl. 894 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,200 Something made all the more astonishing 895 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,680 by the fact that she's married. 896 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,480 [Cheryl] I do have a very understanding husband. 897 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,880 He's secure in how I feel about him, 898 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,600 in our relationship, and the commitment that we've made 899 00:43:58,680 --> 00:43:59,960 with each other. 900 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,440 And I know there are people who are thinking: 901 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:03,880 "Oh, really? 902 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,120 And you're going to bed with people, and you're helping them, 903 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,200 and you have orgasms sometimes?" 904 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,800 Why not? I mean, that's a marvelous part of the whole thing. 905 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,080 If a client and I get to that place, 906 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:15,760 that's a joyful moment. 907 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,800 [whispers] Why don't you touch me? 908 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,200 -[Clive giggles] -Do you need help with that? 909 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,040 -No, you're doing good. -Yeah. 910 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,400 I'll just throw that over there. 911 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,960 [Cheryl] I would like to try something with you. 912 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,440 How's that? 913 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:55,560 [Giggles] 914 00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:00,440 [Cheryl] Hello. Hello. 915 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,120 Drop your knees. 916 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,120 -[Cheryl] Hi. -Hiya. 917 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,640 [Cheryl moans] 918 00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:25,240 [Cheryl pants] 919 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,880 [whispers] You're an amazing person. 920 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,160 Mm, thank you. 921 00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:42,200 [Clive] It just felt right. 922 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,160 It just felt right. I didn't think about it, I didn't have any thoughts of: 923 00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:48,160 "Ooh, should I be doing this? Should I not?" 924 00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:50,240 I just went with it. 925 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,920 And it felt totally right. 926 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,000 You are such an amazing person. 927 00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,640 You have made me feel so good and so comfortable. 928 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,480 -Oh, Clive. -[Clive exhales deeply] 929 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,880 Thank you. 930 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,400 [Cheryl] Personally, this is why I do this work. 931 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,440 I can't express, I feel that good. 932 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,400 He's a wonderful man and he deserves all of this. 933 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:19,640 He deserves an open, loving relationship in the future, 934 00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:22,920 and I think he's on the path, heading towards it. 935 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,840 [Clive] If I hadn't have had intercourse, 936 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:31,480 I would've regretted it. 937 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:36,040 Because I'd have still had that scared moment. 938 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:37,840 But, actually doing it 939 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,480 and experiencing it, 940 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,880 I feel a lot more confident now 941 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,960 that, having done it once, 942 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:47,720 you know, 943 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,240 I can do it again. 944 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,440 [shouts] I've just had sex! 945 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:53,920 [yelps] 72069

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