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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:24,524 --> 00:00:27,110 Most people feel comfortable flying. 2 00:00:28,945 --> 00:00:31,239 I would say the majority of people have gotten accustomed 3 00:00:31,322 --> 00:00:33,158 to how safe the system is. 4 00:00:35,785 --> 00:00:36,785 Every day, 5 00:00:37,537 --> 00:00:39,414 tens of thousands of flights, 6 00:00:39,998 --> 00:00:41,249 all over the world. 7 00:00:48,006 --> 00:00:50,842 There's an old saying in aviation, 8 00:00:51,593 --> 00:00:54,304 "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going." 9 00:00:55,889 --> 00:00:58,641 Boeing has had such a storied history 10 00:00:58,725 --> 00:01:03,396 and such an incredible stature in the industry. 11 00:01:05,690 --> 00:01:07,358 At any given moment, 12 00:01:07,442 --> 00:01:11,196 roughly 10,000 Boeing aircraft are in service 13 00:01:11,279 --> 00:01:13,698 in more than 150 countries. 14 00:01:28,338 --> 00:01:30,173 I've reported on aviation 15 00:01:30,256 --> 00:01:33,384 for more than 20 years at The Wall Street Journal. 16 00:01:33,885 --> 00:01:37,180 Hello there. It's, uh, Andy Pasztor from The Wall Street Journal. 17 00:01:37,764 --> 00:01:39,682 I know that you've been asked not to talk, 18 00:01:39,766 --> 00:01:41,768 but I'm hoping that you can take a few minutes 19 00:01:41,851 --> 00:01:44,270 just to answer some questions. 20 00:01:45,730 --> 00:01:48,691 By the beginning of 2018, 21 00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:53,029 we'd come through the safest period for commercial aviation 22 00:01:53,113 --> 00:01:54,948 in the history of aviation. 23 00:01:57,492 --> 00:02:00,537 There actually hadn't been a big passenger jet crash 24 00:02:00,620 --> 00:02:02,747 anywhere in the world the previous year. 25 00:02:10,630 --> 00:02:12,674 Boeing has had so much success 26 00:02:13,258 --> 00:02:18,179 producing incredibly safe, reliable aircraft 27 00:02:18,263 --> 00:02:21,891 that pilots and passengers admire and love to fly on. 28 00:02:23,643 --> 00:02:25,770 They had the public's trust. 29 00:02:29,816 --> 00:02:33,319 And then two planes dropped out of the sky. 30 00:02:57,051 --> 00:03:00,889 I don't remember the time. I would say quite early in the morning. 31 00:03:03,558 --> 00:03:05,018 It was dark, I remember. 32 00:03:08,104 --> 00:03:10,273 My husband prepared his flight bag, 33 00:03:10,773 --> 00:03:11,858 checked his schedule, 34 00:03:11,941 --> 00:03:14,569 checked out with his colleague that he's flying with. 35 00:03:15,904 --> 00:03:19,407 We had a meal and had a chat for 20, 30 minutes. 36 00:03:20,992 --> 00:03:23,536 That was the normal routine before he left for his flight. 37 00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:28,708 After he left, I went back to sleep, 38 00:03:29,417 --> 00:03:32,629 and after a few hours, I was expecting a call from him. 39 00:03:33,421 --> 00:03:35,423 You know, just normal working day. 40 00:03:42,096 --> 00:03:46,017 Lion Inter 610 cleared for takeoff, runway 2-5 left 41 00:03:46,100 --> 00:03:48,853 Lion Inter 610 cleared for takeoff, 2-5 left. 42 00:03:55,401 --> 00:03:57,195 - V1. - Noted. 43 00:04:04,744 --> 00:04:06,829 Airspeed low. Airspeed low. 44 00:04:06,913 --> 00:04:08,748 Indicated Airspeed Disagree, Captain. 45 00:04:08,831 --> 00:04:11,084 Airspeed low. Airspeed low. 46 00:04:13,711 --> 00:04:14,751 Feel Differential. 47 00:04:17,924 --> 00:04:20,468 Bank angle. Bank angle. Bank angle. 48 00:04:20,551 --> 00:04:22,262 Altitude Disagree, Captain. 49 00:04:31,271 --> 00:04:34,416 - Lion Inter 610? - We have a flight control problem. 50 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,985 Terrain. Terrain. Pull up. Pull up. 51 00:04:39,070 --> 00:04:40,571 Terrain. Terrain. 52 00:04:40,655 --> 00:04:41,906 Fly up! Fly up! 53 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,418 I got a call from one of his colleagues, 54 00:04:53,918 --> 00:04:56,170 "We are not able to find his aircraft." 55 00:04:56,838 --> 00:05:00,258 I'm like, "Don't worry." Because I knew... I... I knew my husband. 56 00:05:00,341 --> 00:05:01,467 I knew how he flew. 57 00:05:02,885 --> 00:05:04,387 I was just expecting a call from him. 58 00:05:04,470 --> 00:05:07,932 You know, "I've reached." That was the norm that we used to follow. 59 00:05:08,016 --> 00:05:11,602 So I was expecting that call from him instead of anyone else. 60 00:05:13,646 --> 00:05:16,899 And after that, it's just been... Everyone knows. 61 00:05:20,737 --> 00:05:24,073 Lion Air Flight 610 went missing from radar 62 00:05:24,157 --> 00:05:27,243 just a few minutes after taking off from Jakarta. 63 00:05:27,910 --> 00:05:33,124 A brand-new Boeing 737 with 189 people onboard 64 00:05:33,207 --> 00:05:35,043 crashing moments after takeoff... 65 00:05:49,766 --> 00:05:52,119 You mentioned this was a... a Boeing aircraft. 66 00:05:52,143 --> 00:05:54,812 What more do we know about the plane, Benjamin? 67 00:05:54,896 --> 00:05:57,357 Yeah, a Boeing, as you said, uh, almost brand-new. 68 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,442 They had taken delivery of it back in August. 69 00:05:59,525 --> 00:06:03,071 It was a 737 Max. That's the updated version of the 737. 70 00:06:03,154 --> 00:06:04,864 They haven't been out that long. 71 00:06:12,121 --> 00:06:13,456 That morning, 72 00:06:13,539 --> 00:06:16,376 our families were trying to find out information. 73 00:06:16,876 --> 00:06:19,504 Trying to understand what was going on. 74 00:06:24,759 --> 00:06:29,055 Very soon, everyone there became aware of what had happened. 75 00:06:30,431 --> 00:06:32,809 And that nobody was coming back. 76 00:06:40,525 --> 00:06:43,694 What I was going through, it was just pain. 77 00:06:44,862 --> 00:06:46,531 I don't remember a thing. 78 00:06:47,448 --> 00:06:50,535 Just except the pain, there was nothing, purely pain. 79 00:06:56,541 --> 00:06:57,541 To my husband, 80 00:06:57,917 --> 00:06:58,918 all that mattered 81 00:06:59,502 --> 00:07:02,130 was the safety and security of his passengers. 82 00:07:06,008 --> 00:07:09,470 He's flying with 188 people along with him. 83 00:07:11,514 --> 00:07:14,225 And the grief that I felt for those families, 84 00:07:15,101 --> 00:07:16,144 unbelievable. 85 00:07:18,312 --> 00:07:19,312 Unbelievable. 86 00:07:28,948 --> 00:07:32,660 In the first day or two days after a crash, 87 00:07:32,743 --> 00:07:35,538 there's really very little information about the cause. 88 00:07:37,457 --> 00:07:39,792 In this case, the weather appeared to be good. 89 00:07:39,876 --> 00:07:41,544 It was very close to the airport. 90 00:07:42,211 --> 00:07:44,255 And this is a brand-new plane 91 00:07:44,338 --> 00:07:47,925 built by America's premier aircraft manufacturer. 92 00:07:48,843 --> 00:07:51,637 And unless the black boxes are found quickly, 93 00:07:51,721 --> 00:07:53,222 it's all speculation. 94 00:07:55,224 --> 00:07:57,894 Lion Air has a spotty safety record. 95 00:07:57,977 --> 00:08:02,315 Along with several Indonesian carriers, the low-cost airline was banned 96 00:08:02,398 --> 00:08:05,067 from flying into the United States and Europe 97 00:08:05,151 --> 00:08:06,861 but improved in recent years. 98 00:08:07,987 --> 00:08:09,906 I was following the news, 99 00:08:09,989 --> 00:08:12,033 reading each and every article, 100 00:08:12,116 --> 00:08:13,618 anything that was online. 101 00:08:14,243 --> 00:08:16,204 They all said the same thing. 102 00:08:17,497 --> 00:08:18,748 They started blaming. 103 00:08:18,831 --> 00:08:20,458 There was a blame game going on. 104 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:22,502 Blaming the country, 105 00:08:23,336 --> 00:08:24,587 blaming the airline, 106 00:08:25,922 --> 00:08:27,173 blaming the pilots, 107 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,302 saying that it was their incompetence. 108 00:08:32,094 --> 00:08:36,015 The airline probably needed to do a better job of making sure its pilots 109 00:08:36,098 --> 00:08:41,229 understood exactly what to do in case the aircraft was performing 110 00:08:41,312 --> 00:08:45,483 in a unique, unusual way and how to get out of the problem. 111 00:08:45,983 --> 00:08:49,195 Should passengers getting on a 737 Max be concerned? 112 00:08:49,946 --> 00:08:52,823 I don't think so. Certainly, in the United States, 113 00:08:52,907 --> 00:08:55,451 they understand how to operate this aircraft. 114 00:08:57,328 --> 00:08:59,747 No one thought it was the airplane. 115 00:09:00,665 --> 00:09:04,919 I am in... in print being asked what this could possibly be and I said, 116 00:09:05,002 --> 00:09:06,796 I would be phenomenally surprised 117 00:09:06,879 --> 00:09:11,050 if it was related to any... any part of the airplane's design. 118 00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:13,469 I mean, it was a Boeing. 119 00:09:14,845 --> 00:09:18,975 Everyone in the world knew what Boeing stood for. 120 00:09:19,725 --> 00:09:23,229 Their reputation for safety was tremendous. 121 00:09:24,522 --> 00:09:25,982 And at that point, 122 00:09:26,065 --> 00:09:29,944 there really wasn't enough information to draw any conclusions. 123 00:09:31,112 --> 00:09:35,616 But then, the Indonesian investigators found the black boxes. 124 00:09:36,909 --> 00:09:40,746 There are two black boxes, both of which are orange, by the way. 125 00:09:41,455 --> 00:09:43,791 One is called a cockpit voice recorder, 126 00:09:44,292 --> 00:09:46,794 and the other one is called a flight data recorder. 127 00:09:47,628 --> 00:09:50,381 It records the altitude and the airspeed and the direction 128 00:09:50,464 --> 00:09:52,216 and what the throttles are doing. 129 00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:54,100 Thousands of parameters, eight times a second, 130 00:09:54,135 --> 00:09:57,513 so it's a very comprehensive tally of what happened on the airplane. 131 00:09:59,974 --> 00:10:03,311 The flight data recorder showed that right after takeoff, 132 00:10:03,394 --> 00:10:06,731 there was a failure of the left-hand angle-of-attack indicator. 133 00:10:07,773 --> 00:10:11,319 That's a sensor that's located on either side of the airplane 134 00:10:11,402 --> 00:10:15,031 that measures the angle of the nose during flight. 135 00:10:17,908 --> 00:10:20,911 As soon as the faulty angle-of-attack sensors sent 136 00:10:20,995 --> 00:10:23,372 bad data to the aircraft systems, 137 00:10:23,956 --> 00:10:28,711 the stick shaker on the captain's side would have been loudly vibrating 138 00:10:28,794 --> 00:10:31,672 his control column to warn of an impending stall. 139 00:10:32,506 --> 00:10:33,883 But that was a false warning. 140 00:10:33,966 --> 00:10:35,926 The airplane wasn't stalling. It was flying. 141 00:10:38,054 --> 00:10:40,848 Right away, not only did the stick shaker go off, 142 00:10:41,766 --> 00:10:43,976 but there was a master caution light, 143 00:10:44,685 --> 00:10:48,856 airspeed disagree alerts, and the altitude's not reading right. 144 00:10:49,690 --> 00:10:53,736 You have this tidal wave of distraction. 145 00:10:55,196 --> 00:10:57,615 And on top of all that, something was putting 146 00:10:57,698 --> 00:11:01,035 repeated nose-down pressure on the airplane. 147 00:11:02,328 --> 00:11:05,665 These pilots are fighting and are pulling back up on the airplane 148 00:11:05,748 --> 00:11:07,750 and trying to get it to come back up. 149 00:11:09,168 --> 00:11:12,171 But it happens again and drives the nose back down. 150 00:11:13,214 --> 00:11:15,716 So they're having this oscillating battle. 151 00:11:16,926 --> 00:11:19,762 I remember thinking, "What's making that happen?" 152 00:11:24,183 --> 00:11:26,852 The official response from Boeing was, 153 00:11:26,936 --> 00:11:30,773 we're looking at it, we're cooperating, we don't know quite what happened. 154 00:11:30,856 --> 00:11:34,276 Our sincere apologies to the families. What you would expect. 155 00:11:35,277 --> 00:11:37,822 Dennis Muilenburg, who was chairman, simply said, 156 00:11:37,905 --> 00:11:41,325 "Well, you know, we can't really comment on the investigation." 157 00:11:42,952 --> 00:11:45,746 But we found out that behind the scenes, 158 00:11:46,247 --> 00:11:49,667 Boeing was saying that an American pilot 159 00:11:50,626 --> 00:11:53,337 would never have gotten into this kind of a situation 160 00:11:54,338 --> 00:11:58,926 and that the Indonesian crew didn't do everything they were supposed to do. 161 00:12:00,219 --> 00:12:02,096 I wouldn't say it was racist, 162 00:12:02,179 --> 00:12:04,181 but I actually remember a point 163 00:12:04,265 --> 00:12:07,476 where they spoke about my husband's qualifications. 164 00:12:08,352 --> 00:12:10,672 They wanted to know where he completed his flight training. 165 00:12:11,647 --> 00:12:14,275 In fact, he finished his training in the US. 166 00:12:17,278 --> 00:12:20,614 By this time, the second week of November... 167 00:12:20,698 --> 00:12:23,159 It's Andy Pasztor from The Wall Street Journal. 168 00:12:23,242 --> 00:12:27,288 ...we began asking questions about the design of this aircraft, 169 00:12:27,371 --> 00:12:29,874 rather than the operation of the aircraft. 170 00:12:30,416 --> 00:12:36,172 I'm hoping to talk with you about the 737 investigation. 171 00:12:36,255 --> 00:12:38,424 We could not understand what was going on. 172 00:12:38,924 --> 00:12:43,512 How could a single damaged sensor make the plane behave like this? 173 00:12:46,265 --> 00:12:48,934 Finally, Boeing released a statement, 174 00:12:49,018 --> 00:12:54,064 saying it looks like the Lion Air airplane had an erroneous MCAS activation. 175 00:12:55,149 --> 00:12:58,778 And all of us went, "What's an MCAS?" 176 00:13:00,654 --> 00:13:02,907 MCAS? I've never heard of this before. 177 00:13:03,407 --> 00:13:04,407 What is this? 178 00:13:05,201 --> 00:13:09,121 I'm looking through the manual. It was in the abbreviation section. 179 00:13:10,206 --> 00:13:14,126 How could it be in the abbreviations but nowhere else? What is this system? 180 00:13:16,504 --> 00:13:17,504 The MCAS, 181 00:13:17,963 --> 00:13:21,258 or the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System, 182 00:13:21,759 --> 00:13:26,722 really is just some software connected to the angle-of-attack sensors. 183 00:13:27,723 --> 00:13:30,601 Because of the flight characteristics of the new Max, 184 00:13:30,684 --> 00:13:34,522 when certain angle-of-attacks were reached, at certain speeds, 185 00:13:35,022 --> 00:13:37,024 the airplane tended to stall out. 186 00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:42,488 So the MCAS was designed to automatically push the nose back down. 187 00:13:43,864 --> 00:13:44,949 Simple concept. 188 00:13:45,616 --> 00:13:49,662 All they had to do was to add a few lines of code to an existing system. 189 00:13:51,247 --> 00:13:54,291 MCAS was designed to work in the background, 190 00:13:54,792 --> 00:13:56,961 using the speed trim motor 191 00:13:57,044 --> 00:13:59,046 to swivel the horizontal stabilizer 192 00:13:59,547 --> 00:14:02,508 just a little bit each time it sensed 193 00:14:02,591 --> 00:14:05,553 that the angle-of-attack was... was too high. 194 00:14:05,636 --> 00:14:07,888 It would smoothly bring the nose down. 195 00:14:09,139 --> 00:14:11,517 But in the case of the Lion Air crash, 196 00:14:12,017 --> 00:14:14,228 an angle-of-attack sensor was broken, 197 00:14:14,728 --> 00:14:16,897 which erroneously activated MCAS, 198 00:14:17,773 --> 00:14:19,650 and it activated repeatedly. 199 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,576 Boeing said that the crew did not respond in a way that they expected them to. 200 00:14:29,076 --> 00:14:30,953 They didn't switch the system off. 201 00:14:34,915 --> 00:14:36,709 The only problem was, 202 00:14:36,792 --> 00:14:40,713 and everybody was completely flummoxed and surprised 203 00:14:40,796 --> 00:14:41,839 when they found out, 204 00:14:42,423 --> 00:14:47,720 Boeing had never told pilots that the MCAS system was on the aircraft. 205 00:14:50,264 --> 00:14:52,016 Say what? 206 00:14:52,516 --> 00:14:54,560 Uh, huh. Uh... 207 00:14:55,060 --> 00:14:58,314 Yeah, I mean, that was my response, like, "What?" 208 00:14:58,814 --> 00:15:01,317 Um, yeah, uh... 209 00:15:03,319 --> 00:15:06,196 How... how the heck could this happen? 210 00:15:07,781 --> 00:15:11,285 Hello there. It's Andy Pasztor from The Wall Street Journal. 211 00:15:11,368 --> 00:15:13,037 Is this a good time to talk? 212 00:15:13,621 --> 00:15:17,207 Good. I just wanted to follow up on our last discussion. 213 00:15:17,291 --> 00:15:20,461 You were nice enough to give me some time, and, uh... 214 00:15:20,544 --> 00:15:22,880 After a lot of knocking on doors, 215 00:15:22,963 --> 00:15:26,717 a very senior Boeing executive 216 00:15:27,301 --> 00:15:31,680 told me, "We never informed the pilots about MCAS." 217 00:15:32,181 --> 00:15:34,099 "We never explained it to them." 218 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,518 "We never trained them on it, 219 00:15:37,019 --> 00:15:40,356 because we didn't want to overwhelm them with information." 220 00:15:41,315 --> 00:15:45,402 That took my colleagues and myself quite aback. 221 00:15:45,486 --> 00:15:48,489 We'd never heard a senior Boeing official 222 00:15:48,572 --> 00:15:51,075 talking along those lines. 223 00:15:51,158 --> 00:15:56,330 Boeing had always prided itself for being the pilot's advocate. 224 00:15:58,290 --> 00:15:59,917 So we wrote a story 225 00:16:00,626 --> 00:16:05,714 saying that Boeing had proactively decided not to tell pilots 226 00:16:05,798 --> 00:16:07,466 about the MCAS system. 227 00:16:08,509 --> 00:16:10,427 New questions this morning for Boeing. 228 00:16:10,511 --> 00:16:13,681 The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Boeing withheld information 229 00:16:13,764 --> 00:16:17,559 on its 737 model, according to safety experts and others... 230 00:16:17,643 --> 00:16:21,355 As soon as it became clear that this wasn't an oversight, 231 00:16:21,438 --> 00:16:24,233 this wasn't just left out by accident, 232 00:16:24,316 --> 00:16:25,859 pilots went berserk. 233 00:16:27,152 --> 00:16:28,779 We couldn't believe it. 234 00:16:28,862 --> 00:16:33,742 And once we started learning more about this MCAS system, 235 00:16:33,826 --> 00:16:36,453 it became our number one priority. 236 00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:42,292 I found it disrespectful. Um, 237 00:16:42,376 --> 00:16:44,253 every pilot I ever taught, 238 00:16:44,336 --> 00:16:47,423 I said you want to know as much about your airplane as possible. 239 00:16:48,215 --> 00:16:49,975 In this series of modules, 240 00:16:50,009 --> 00:16:51,593 we will discuss the differences 241 00:16:51,677 --> 00:16:56,098 between the Boeing 737 NG and 737 Max aircraft. 242 00:16:56,181 --> 00:17:01,020 The 737 Max is the successor to the 737 Next Generation... 243 00:17:01,103 --> 00:17:03,647 Facts should not be hidden from the pilots. 244 00:17:04,732 --> 00:17:07,026 The only training my husband was given 245 00:17:07,109 --> 00:17:10,362 was an iPad training, and it never mentioned MCAS. 246 00:17:10,446 --> 00:17:12,882 ...improvements similar to existing aircraft... 247 00:17:12,906 --> 00:17:17,661 I kept on insisting with the investigators that this aircraft should be grounded. 248 00:17:18,454 --> 00:17:21,457 But Boeing has a big reputation around the world. 249 00:17:23,584 --> 00:17:25,669 Here's what Boeing did. 250 00:17:25,753 --> 00:17:28,672 They started contacting pilots' unions. 251 00:17:29,423 --> 00:17:32,134 So I got a call saying that Boeing's gonna come down 252 00:17:32,217 --> 00:17:35,220 and brief us on this MCAS system. 253 00:17:35,971 --> 00:17:39,141 This was monumental. It's the first time high-level Boeing executives 254 00:17:39,224 --> 00:17:42,394 have ever come to visit the Allied Pilots Association. 255 00:17:43,062 --> 00:17:47,483 So, on November 27th, I met them at the door. 256 00:17:49,068 --> 00:17:51,361 First of all, they brought their lobbyists. 257 00:17:51,862 --> 00:17:54,448 Who brings a lobbyist to a safety meeting? 258 00:17:57,201 --> 00:18:01,413 I could see that they weren't interested in, uh... in exchanging pleasantries, 259 00:18:02,456 --> 00:18:04,666 so, we went into our conference room. 260 00:18:07,169 --> 00:18:08,253 We all sat down. 261 00:18:09,213 --> 00:18:12,674 I just assumed they were gonna bring PowerPoint presentations, 262 00:18:12,758 --> 00:18:14,593 graphs, charts, data. 263 00:18:15,636 --> 00:18:17,554 And they don't have anything. 264 00:18:19,181 --> 00:18:20,682 It's just them. 265 00:18:22,184 --> 00:18:24,269 I could see that they were worried. 266 00:18:25,145 --> 00:18:26,563 So I taped the meeting. 267 00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:30,818 These guys didn't even know the damn system was on here. 268 00:18:30,901 --> 00:18:32,069 Nor did anybody else. 269 00:18:32,569 --> 00:18:34,964 We try not to overload the crews with information 270 00:18:34,988 --> 00:18:35,989 that's unnecessary. 271 00:18:37,116 --> 00:18:39,036 I would think there would be a priority 272 00:18:39,076 --> 00:18:41,995 on explanations of things that could kill you. 273 00:18:42,496 --> 00:18:44,748 We take your point. We really do. 274 00:18:45,499 --> 00:18:49,128 Is there something being done where Boeing might address 275 00:18:49,211 --> 00:18:50,891 ways to make sure it doesn't happen again? 276 00:18:51,713 --> 00:18:54,716 We're looking at relatively straightforward software changes 277 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,970 that we expect we can get out in a fairly short period of time. 278 00:18:58,053 --> 00:18:59,179 Maybe six weeks. 279 00:19:00,639 --> 00:19:02,182 They've told us at that meeting, 280 00:19:02,266 --> 00:19:04,768 they're gonna have a software fix in six weeks. 281 00:19:05,269 --> 00:19:07,938 Nothing gets done in six weeks. 282 00:19:09,606 --> 00:19:13,694 So we asked, "Why don't you just ground the airplane till you have this fix?" 283 00:19:14,945 --> 00:19:17,906 'Cause no one has yet concluded 284 00:19:18,407 --> 00:19:21,535 that the sole cause of this was dysfunction of the airplane. 285 00:19:22,536 --> 00:19:24,705 They could have grounded the plane, 286 00:19:25,330 --> 00:19:31,170 but Boeing had the stature to say, "This is a terrible thing that happened." 287 00:19:31,253 --> 00:19:33,297 "We're working on it. Trust us." 288 00:19:33,797 --> 00:19:35,799 Joining me right now is the chairman, 289 00:19:35,883 --> 00:19:38,677 president, and CEO of Boeing, Dennis Muilenburg. 290 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,655 - Dennis, it's good to see you. - Good to see you. 291 00:19:40,679 --> 00:19:43,473 Thank you so much for joining us. What can you tell us in terms of 292 00:19:43,557 --> 00:19:46,518 what was told to the pilots and the airlines 293 00:19:46,602 --> 00:19:50,105 about any new equipment in that 737. 294 00:19:50,189 --> 00:19:53,275 We've already issued additional bulletins to our operators and pilots 295 00:19:53,358 --> 00:19:56,820 around the world that point them back to existing flight procedures 296 00:19:56,904 --> 00:19:58,614 to handle that kind of condition. 297 00:19:58,697 --> 00:20:02,159 The bottom line here is the 737 Max is safe. 298 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,588 Our breaking news, an Ethiopian Airlines flight 299 00:20:14,671 --> 00:20:17,716 has crashed shortly after takeoff from Addis Ababa, 300 00:20:17,799 --> 00:20:21,345 killing all 157 passengers and crew 301 00:20:21,428 --> 00:20:22,763 thought to be on board. 302 00:20:22,846 --> 00:20:23,889 The airline told... 303 00:20:23,972 --> 00:20:29,478 My wife, Nadia, she stayed up, and at night she would listen to the BBC. 304 00:20:29,561 --> 00:20:32,940 And the BBC said that there was just a... 305 00:20:34,358 --> 00:20:35,484 a crash 306 00:20:36,526 --> 00:20:40,489 of an airplane that had just left Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. 307 00:20:41,865 --> 00:20:46,036 Our daughter, Samya, had texted us earlier that night to say, 308 00:20:46,536 --> 00:20:51,333 "I just landed in Addis. Just a few more hours and on to Nairobi." 309 00:20:53,627 --> 00:20:56,088 Samya had had a career in public health. 310 00:20:57,047 --> 00:21:00,384 She had been to Africa a couple times before. 311 00:21:00,467 --> 00:21:02,427 You know, it's just another trip. 312 00:21:03,220 --> 00:21:07,683 And, uh, so Nadia woke me up and, uh, said, 313 00:21:08,183 --> 00:21:11,144 "I think Samya was on a plane that just crashed." 314 00:21:13,188 --> 00:21:15,023 And I thought, "That can't be." 315 00:21:16,358 --> 00:21:17,609 "That can't be." 316 00:21:23,156 --> 00:21:25,117 "It can't be her flight." 317 00:21:25,784 --> 00:21:30,872 And then we found out it was... she was on Flight 302. 318 00:21:30,956 --> 00:21:33,500 That was her plane. 319 00:21:36,503 --> 00:21:41,675 Everybody else's dad, you know, drinks alcohol, maybe smokes cigarettes. 320 00:21:42,301 --> 00:21:44,386 My dad was addicted to tea. 321 00:21:45,470 --> 00:21:47,973 He would have 20 cups a day. 322 00:21:49,808 --> 00:21:51,518 He was going back to Kenya 323 00:21:52,019 --> 00:21:55,522 because he wanted to better the community that he grew up in. 324 00:21:56,940 --> 00:21:59,985 He called from the airport, and he just said, you know, 325 00:22:00,068 --> 00:22:03,572 "Hey, Zippy, I just wanted to let you know I'm about to board the flight." 326 00:22:03,655 --> 00:22:05,699 It was about 8:00 p.m. at night, 327 00:22:05,782 --> 00:22:08,577 and I remember I sat on my couch and said, "Okay, Dad." 328 00:22:09,161 --> 00:22:13,081 I just remember he said, "I love you." And I said, you know, "I love you too." 329 00:22:19,296 --> 00:22:21,882 The next morning, my phone was ringing, 330 00:22:22,966 --> 00:22:24,634 and it's my brother calling. 331 00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:28,722 And he said, "I need you to brace yourself." 332 00:22:28,805 --> 00:22:32,893 "There's a plane that has crashed in Ethiopia, 333 00:22:32,976 --> 00:22:35,687 and there's a high chance that it's the flight that Dad was on." 334 00:22:36,730 --> 00:22:40,067 And I was like, "Dad never flew on Ethiopian Airlines, 335 00:22:40,734 --> 00:22:45,447 so he definitely wasn't on that plane." And he was like, "No, this time he did." 336 00:22:49,785 --> 00:22:52,037 Nadia said, "We... we have to go there." 337 00:22:53,997 --> 00:22:55,957 So, we drove to JFK 338 00:22:56,458 --> 00:22:57,667 and got on a plane. 339 00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:07,344 When we got to Ethiopia, they wouldn't let people go to the crash site. 340 00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:10,430 So we stayed in Addis Ababa, 341 00:23:11,556 --> 00:23:13,850 as did many other families. 342 00:23:16,186 --> 00:23:20,565 It took us three days to really verify that there just is no... 343 00:23:22,859 --> 00:23:24,694 bodies to recover. 344 00:23:26,113 --> 00:23:29,282 So finally they took us to the crash site. 345 00:23:33,537 --> 00:23:35,664 There was a few plane parts around, 346 00:23:36,623 --> 00:23:39,167 not nearly enough to make up a whole plane. 347 00:23:41,545 --> 00:23:45,924 There were personal things strewn all around the crash site. 348 00:23:47,217 --> 00:23:49,761 Some clothes that were fluttering about. 349 00:23:49,845 --> 00:23:51,555 Some papers fluttering about. 350 00:23:55,016 --> 00:23:56,268 And there was a hole. 351 00:23:57,519 --> 00:24:00,772 The plane went 500, 600 miles an hour 352 00:24:00,856 --> 00:24:03,900 straight into the... straight into the ground. 353 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,991 I saw people gathered about the crater looking down. 354 00:24:12,951 --> 00:24:14,536 Some brought flowers. 355 00:24:16,288 --> 00:24:21,042 Nadia had brought flowers, roses for Samya Rose and threw them... 356 00:24:24,504 --> 00:24:25,505 threw them in. 357 00:24:39,644 --> 00:24:43,231 Just the idea that a plane within five months, the same plane, 358 00:24:43,315 --> 00:24:47,486 a new plane went down in eerily similar circumstances, 359 00:24:47,986 --> 00:24:52,616 close to the airport, relatively low altitude, not bad weather. 360 00:24:52,699 --> 00:24:57,287 All the obvious reasons that planes would... would... would crash. 361 00:24:57,370 --> 00:25:00,332 Boeing faces a lot of safety questions this morning 362 00:25:00,415 --> 00:25:04,044 because this is the second crash in just five months involving 363 00:25:04,127 --> 00:25:06,338 their best-selling passenger jet. 364 00:25:06,421 --> 00:25:09,382 Major US carriers use this new aircraft. 365 00:25:09,466 --> 00:25:12,260 Hundreds are in service, thousands are on order, 366 00:25:12,344 --> 00:25:15,805 and there are calls this morning to ground all of them. 367 00:25:16,932 --> 00:25:18,850 Two crashes of brand-new airplanes 368 00:25:18,934 --> 00:25:20,727 within five months of each other. 369 00:25:21,228 --> 00:25:24,314 That doesn't happen in modern aviation. 370 00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:27,651 But Boeing would not publicly consider 371 00:25:27,734 --> 00:25:30,904 that something was... was wrong with the design of the airplane. 372 00:25:30,987 --> 00:25:33,949 There are a lot of passengers who are afraid of the Max. 373 00:25:34,032 --> 00:25:36,451 Again, our commitment to safety is unwavering, 374 00:25:36,535 --> 00:25:39,079 and, uh, we do regret the impact that this has had... 375 00:25:39,663 --> 00:25:42,832 Safety is at the core of who we are at Boeing. 376 00:25:43,333 --> 00:25:46,211 And ensuring safe and reliable travel on our airplanes... 377 00:25:46,294 --> 00:25:50,006 The statement coming from Boeing, "Safety is Boeing's number one priority." 378 00:25:50,090 --> 00:25:53,051 "We have full confidence in the safety of the Max." 379 00:25:53,134 --> 00:25:56,972 "It is also important to note that the Federal Aviation Administration 380 00:25:57,055 --> 00:26:00,725 is not mandating any further action at this time." 381 00:26:02,060 --> 00:26:03,060 The FAA, 382 00:26:03,478 --> 00:26:05,480 the Federal Aviation Administration, 383 00:26:05,564 --> 00:26:08,692 who's in charge of aviation safety in the US, 384 00:26:08,775 --> 00:26:11,403 had the power to ground the aircraft. 385 00:26:13,446 --> 00:26:15,740 The FAA said it was waiting for data, 386 00:26:16,324 --> 00:26:18,410 and until we have that data, 387 00:26:18,994 --> 00:26:21,204 making a decision would be premature. 388 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,874 So they didn't make a decision one way or the other. 389 00:26:26,543 --> 00:26:31,756 The day after the crash, the Chinese absolutely floored everyone 390 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,427 when they, on their own, unilaterally ground this aircraft. 391 00:26:38,471 --> 00:26:42,601 And that started a whole series of moves 392 00:26:42,684 --> 00:26:44,311 by other countries. 393 00:26:44,394 --> 00:26:46,730 Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, Singapore, 394 00:26:46,813 --> 00:26:49,899 France, Germany, Italy, UK, Ireland, Netherlands. 395 00:26:49,983 --> 00:26:51,067 I could go on. 396 00:26:51,568 --> 00:26:54,821 It does seem like a bit of a rebuke of the FAA. 397 00:26:56,448 --> 00:26:57,574 If an issue 398 00:26:58,450 --> 00:27:02,579 that affects safety is identified, 399 00:27:02,662 --> 00:27:07,125 the department and the FAA will not hesitate 400 00:27:07,208 --> 00:27:10,962 to take immediate and appropriate action. 401 00:27:11,546 --> 00:27:14,633 To us, to the families of the victims, 402 00:27:15,216 --> 00:27:18,720 it was astounding that the plane was still up in the air, 403 00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:22,641 especially after two crashes. 404 00:27:22,724 --> 00:27:25,977 We turn now to new developments in the deadly Ethiopian Airlines crash. 405 00:27:26,061 --> 00:27:27,562 With a cause still a mystery, 406 00:27:27,646 --> 00:27:30,273 the black boxes are being analyzed in France, 407 00:27:30,357 --> 00:27:33,610 as new details emerge about the flight's final moments. 408 00:27:34,194 --> 00:27:36,988 We're getting more information on the flight path, 409 00:27:37,072 --> 00:27:41,034 and it's looking very similar to the Lion Air crash. 410 00:27:43,453 --> 00:27:46,998 And then in Ethiopia, they found the jackscrew. 411 00:27:48,291 --> 00:27:51,878 Jackscrew is this long screw, about so thick, 412 00:27:52,379 --> 00:27:54,714 that operates the stabilizer trim. 413 00:27:57,926 --> 00:28:02,180 They found the jackscrew in a full nose-down position. 414 00:28:03,682 --> 00:28:05,350 Hands down, it was the MCAS. 415 00:28:06,601 --> 00:28:08,019 Within 30 minutes, 416 00:28:08,103 --> 00:28:09,854 President Trump is on television, 417 00:28:09,938 --> 00:28:11,314 grounding the airplane. 418 00:28:11,398 --> 00:28:14,693 I'm gonna be issuing an emergency order of prohibition 419 00:28:14,776 --> 00:28:20,532 to ground all flights of the 737 Max 8 420 00:28:20,615 --> 00:28:23,868 and the 737 Max 9. 421 00:28:23,952 --> 00:28:26,996 Any plane currently in the air will go to its destination 422 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,458 and thereafter be grounded until further notice. 423 00:28:36,715 --> 00:28:39,175 To my knowledge, it's the only airplane 424 00:28:39,259 --> 00:28:41,928 ever to be grounded by the president of the United States. 425 00:28:43,054 --> 00:28:46,057 But even after the Max was grounded, 426 00:28:46,141 --> 00:28:49,018 and the planes had to be flown to storage facilities, 427 00:28:50,270 --> 00:28:53,648 we had pilots calling to say they don't want to fly them there. 428 00:28:55,358 --> 00:28:59,195 When a pilot doesn't want to fly a brand-new Boeing, 429 00:29:00,780 --> 00:29:01,781 that's an issue. 430 00:29:20,717 --> 00:29:22,719 Two days after the second crash, 431 00:29:23,219 --> 00:29:25,013 I started an investigation. 432 00:29:26,222 --> 00:29:29,517 We knew something big was afoot here, 433 00:29:29,601 --> 00:29:32,729 that this plane appeared to be defective in some manner. 434 00:29:33,605 --> 00:29:35,690 I had just hired my investigative staff, and I said, 435 00:29:35,774 --> 00:29:38,318 "Here's your first job, Boeing 737 Max." 436 00:29:40,779 --> 00:29:44,240 In addition to Congress trying to get to the bottom of this, 437 00:29:44,741 --> 00:29:49,454 the families of the victims really took this on as a personal issue. 438 00:29:51,206 --> 00:29:54,501 They felt that there needed to be some explanation 439 00:29:54,584 --> 00:29:58,880 of how two planes could have crashed within such a short period of time. 440 00:30:01,382 --> 00:30:04,260 The crash families started coming to DC 441 00:30:04,969 --> 00:30:09,766 to help put pressure on Congress to hold Boeing responsible. 442 00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:13,853 Peter DeFazio, we're indebted to, 443 00:30:13,937 --> 00:30:16,272 because he made this the biggest investigation 444 00:30:16,356 --> 00:30:19,567 in the history of the Transportation Infrastructure Committee. 445 00:30:20,568 --> 00:30:23,822 Paul Njoroge from Kenya lost his wife, 446 00:30:23,905 --> 00:30:25,198 his three children, 447 00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:27,325 and his mother-in-law. 448 00:30:28,201 --> 00:30:30,411 I've been in touch with the crash families, 449 00:30:30,495 --> 00:30:33,915 and we definitely talk about how to go about it 450 00:30:34,415 --> 00:30:37,377 and understand what has to be done to get justice. 451 00:30:40,755 --> 00:30:42,423 This is who we've lost. 452 00:30:44,801 --> 00:30:47,428 This is the cost of doing business as usual. 453 00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:53,726 I remember looking at the full list of passenger names 454 00:30:54,561 --> 00:30:57,438 from so many different countries. 455 00:30:57,522 --> 00:31:00,441 People all over the world have been impacted 456 00:31:00,525 --> 00:31:01,985 by what has taken place. 457 00:31:14,372 --> 00:31:17,041 We want this thing to come out in the public. 458 00:31:18,167 --> 00:31:20,169 We want Boeing to show all the papers. 459 00:31:20,253 --> 00:31:22,255 We want them to come out with the true facts. 460 00:31:25,049 --> 00:31:27,552 When we started the investigation, 461 00:31:27,635 --> 00:31:31,639 a lot of people around the world were angry and appalled 462 00:31:31,723 --> 00:31:33,474 at what had been allowed to happen. 463 00:31:34,058 --> 00:31:36,019 Do you feel your story is getting out? 464 00:31:36,769 --> 00:31:39,355 I... right now it is because we're having a hearing. 465 00:31:39,439 --> 00:31:42,066 My concern is that weeks will pass, 466 00:31:42,150 --> 00:31:45,278 and... and the FAA will just put the plane back in the air 467 00:31:45,361 --> 00:31:46,446 without any scrutiny. 468 00:31:46,529 --> 00:31:48,281 They have the power to do that. 469 00:31:49,198 --> 00:31:51,326 In the United States of America, 470 00:31:51,409 --> 00:31:53,786 Congress has oversight duties, 471 00:31:53,870 --> 00:31:54,871 plain and simple. 472 00:31:55,580 --> 00:32:01,002 And the question was, did Boeing put an unsafe plane in the air? 473 00:32:01,878 --> 00:32:04,255 Meeting come to order. 474 00:32:04,756 --> 00:32:07,717 We're here today in response to two catastrophic crashes 475 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,055 that claimed 346 lives in the span of five months. 476 00:32:12,555 --> 00:32:16,476 We're very much in the beginning of, uh, our investigation. 477 00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:20,563 I would like to recognize the family members of those killed, 478 00:32:20,647 --> 00:32:22,649 uh, some of whom are here today, 479 00:32:22,732 --> 00:32:25,818 and we're here to ensure that the lives of your family members 480 00:32:25,902 --> 00:32:28,905 were not lost, uh, in vain and without response. 481 00:32:29,405 --> 00:32:33,159 Today, we'll hear from pilots and other safety professionals 482 00:32:33,242 --> 00:32:35,078 who, uh, work on those planes. 483 00:32:35,745 --> 00:32:38,414 Now, the question is, what were the factors? 484 00:32:39,207 --> 00:32:43,753 Congress's goal, of course, was first to lay out for the public 485 00:32:43,836 --> 00:32:45,713 what happened and why, 486 00:32:45,797 --> 00:32:48,883 and secondly, to look at legislative changes 487 00:32:48,967 --> 00:32:51,135 that could prevent future crashes. 488 00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:54,806 After the second crash occurred, 489 00:32:54,889 --> 00:32:59,268 Boeing was trying to push the focus onto the Ethiopian pilots. 490 00:32:59,936 --> 00:33:03,231 They acknowledged that MCAS had misfired 491 00:33:03,314 --> 00:33:06,359 but maintained that the Ethiopian crew 492 00:33:06,442 --> 00:33:10,989 did not do everything precisely as they were supposed to. 493 00:33:12,073 --> 00:33:15,493 It was the same argument they used with Lion Air, 494 00:33:16,411 --> 00:33:20,957 and they waged a pretty vigorous public relations campaign 495 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,001 to try to get their point across. 496 00:33:24,043 --> 00:33:28,464 We learned that Boeing's lobbyists were hiring firms in Washington 497 00:33:28,548 --> 00:33:33,302 to spread the message that foreign pilots were to blame. 498 00:33:33,803 --> 00:33:37,223 Captain Carey, uh, Ethiopia Air, the pilot in the right seat 499 00:33:37,306 --> 00:33:39,976 could not fly at our standards here. 500 00:33:40,059 --> 00:33:43,354 We need to look at their pilot qualifications and training. 501 00:33:43,438 --> 00:33:48,151 You know, Ethiopian Airlines flies a plane into, uh, Washington Dulles every day 502 00:33:48,234 --> 00:33:50,445 from Addis Ababa, and they have been doing it for years. 503 00:33:50,528 --> 00:33:52,613 They have a proud aviation culture, 504 00:33:53,239 --> 00:33:56,117 and you have to remember, uh, sir, and members of the panel, 505 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,995 this is a sudden violent and terrifying event. 506 00:33:59,912 --> 00:34:02,957 Captain Sullenberger, is it fair to blame these pilots? 507 00:34:03,041 --> 00:34:06,419 I just don't want to take the easy path and blame... blame the pilots. 508 00:34:06,919 --> 00:34:09,088 We shouldn't be blaming the pilots, 509 00:34:09,172 --> 00:34:13,926 and we shouldn't expect pilots to have to compensate for flawed designs. 510 00:34:14,510 --> 00:34:17,263 These crews would have been fighting for their lives 511 00:34:17,764 --> 00:34:19,557 in the fight of their lives. 512 00:34:33,488 --> 00:34:35,865 Soon after the hearings got underway, 513 00:34:35,948 --> 00:34:40,328 we managed to get more information about what actually happened 514 00:34:40,411 --> 00:34:43,498 in the cockpit of the Ethiopian aircraft. 515 00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:47,752 We got the information from the FAA 516 00:34:47,835 --> 00:34:52,090 within hours after they received it from the Ethiopian investigators. 517 00:34:54,217 --> 00:34:55,843 It was very late at night, 518 00:34:55,927 --> 00:34:59,263 and we tried to put together the most comprehensive story we could. 519 00:35:03,434 --> 00:35:04,811 When it came out, 520 00:35:04,894 --> 00:35:08,397 this was the first story that revealed 521 00:35:08,481 --> 00:35:13,194 that the crew, in fact, realized that MCAS had kicked off. 522 00:35:14,362 --> 00:35:17,156 And they did what Boeing instructed them to do. 523 00:35:23,955 --> 00:35:25,540 When the MCAS kicks in, 524 00:35:26,749 --> 00:35:28,543 it runs for ten seconds 525 00:35:29,043 --> 00:35:32,130 and pushes the airplane very powerfully nose-down. 526 00:35:34,882 --> 00:35:37,093 Runs for ten, off for five. 527 00:35:37,844 --> 00:35:40,429 Runs for ten, off for five. 528 00:35:43,266 --> 00:35:46,811 They've got this cacophony of stick shaker, 529 00:35:46,894 --> 00:35:50,231 master cautions, airspeed disagree, altitude disagree. 530 00:35:50,815 --> 00:35:52,984 All of these... these warnings going off. 531 00:35:53,776 --> 00:35:58,739 The captain, who's flying the airplane, is trying to figure out what's gone wrong. 532 00:36:01,033 --> 00:36:05,037 The first officer called out, "Stab trim cutout switches, Captain." 533 00:36:05,121 --> 00:36:06,622 I think he said it twice. 534 00:36:07,248 --> 00:36:08,666 He did what Boeing said. 535 00:36:09,625 --> 00:36:11,502 He turned off the MCAS system. 536 00:36:12,712 --> 00:36:15,840 I remember reading that, and I said, "Man, the kid got it right." 537 00:36:16,841 --> 00:36:18,092 "The kid got it right." 538 00:36:19,135 --> 00:36:23,181 The problem now is that the airplane is going too fast. 539 00:36:24,307 --> 00:36:27,185 And because of the force on the tail itself, 540 00:36:28,019 --> 00:36:30,938 they cannot manually trim the airplane 541 00:36:31,022 --> 00:36:32,523 to be able to recover. 542 00:36:42,325 --> 00:36:45,703 Terrain. Terrain. Pull up. Pull up. 543 00:37:14,482 --> 00:37:18,361 The pilots in the first crash had no inkling. 544 00:37:19,612 --> 00:37:22,031 Their plane was behaving completely differently 545 00:37:22,114 --> 00:37:26,035 from the way that they had ever seen it, and they didn't know what to do. 546 00:37:27,578 --> 00:37:29,121 In the Ethiopian airplane, 547 00:37:29,205 --> 00:37:32,541 it was a crew that had been briefed by Boeing 548 00:37:32,625 --> 00:37:34,877 on how this MCAS system worked. 549 00:37:35,378 --> 00:37:37,880 And they did what they were supposed to do. 550 00:37:38,631 --> 00:37:40,258 They turned the system off, 551 00:37:41,634 --> 00:37:43,177 and they still crashed. 552 00:37:44,595 --> 00:37:48,599 For Boeing, this was a tremendous problem 553 00:37:49,433 --> 00:37:52,395 and extremely damaging to their reputation. 554 00:37:53,646 --> 00:37:57,275 A reputation that had been years in the making. 555 00:38:30,725 --> 00:38:33,436 My father was a fighter pilot in the Air Force 556 00:38:34,103 --> 00:38:36,022 and an engineer at the Boeing Company. 557 00:38:36,856 --> 00:38:39,608 Boeing was headquartered here in the Pacific Northwest, 558 00:38:40,443 --> 00:38:43,487 and far and away, it was Seattle's biggest employer. 559 00:38:45,281 --> 00:38:46,824 The Boeing pay was good, 560 00:38:47,325 --> 00:38:51,370 so my father was able to provide us a nice house 561 00:38:51,454 --> 00:38:55,541 and, you know, put himself square in the middle of the middle class. 562 00:38:57,335 --> 00:38:59,628 Boeing was an engineering firm first, 563 00:38:59,712 --> 00:39:02,840 and it had always been engineering-led. 564 00:39:04,008 --> 00:39:07,219 By focusing on quality and innovation, 565 00:39:07,303 --> 00:39:11,223 they created the products that made Boeing part of America's pride 566 00:39:12,224 --> 00:39:15,436 and had a tremendous impact on the country's economy. 567 00:39:17,813 --> 00:39:22,735 Boeing's signatures are on some of the greatest technical advances made 568 00:39:23,319 --> 00:39:24,737 during the 20th century. 569 00:39:25,946 --> 00:39:29,450 Military airplanes, unmanned vehicles, spacecraft, 570 00:39:29,533 --> 00:39:32,620 and most notably, commercial passenger jets, 571 00:39:33,287 --> 00:39:36,791 starting in the late '50s with the 707. 572 00:39:38,459 --> 00:39:41,045 That was followed by the 727 573 00:39:41,629 --> 00:39:44,298 and then the workhorse of the fleet, the 737. 574 00:39:45,758 --> 00:39:47,885 There was just amazing engineering 575 00:39:47,968 --> 00:39:49,553 that was coming out of Seattle. 576 00:39:50,679 --> 00:39:54,183 Boeing's history of safety and quality first 577 00:39:54,266 --> 00:39:57,478 was something that the American public came to understand. 578 00:39:58,729 --> 00:40:01,524 People knew that if it's a Boeing plane, 579 00:40:01,607 --> 00:40:02,900 they felt safe. 580 00:40:04,819 --> 00:40:06,904 It was the dawn of the Jet Age, 581 00:40:07,488 --> 00:40:09,156 and Boeing excelled at it. 582 00:40:10,241 --> 00:40:14,203 They were cranking out new modern airplanes one after the other. 583 00:40:15,663 --> 00:40:20,209 And then, in the late '60s, Boeing took an almost unimaginable risk. 584 00:40:20,876 --> 00:40:22,356 The mostest of everything 585 00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:26,006 describes the new giant of commercial aviation, the jetliner 747. 586 00:40:26,507 --> 00:40:31,846 Contrasted with conventional aircraft, the 747 will carry 490 passengers. 587 00:40:31,929 --> 00:40:35,433 Its engines will be twice as powerful as today's airliners. 588 00:40:35,516 --> 00:40:38,686 The first of these great birds will be delivered by the Boeing Company 589 00:40:38,769 --> 00:40:41,313 to Pan American Airways in 1969. 590 00:40:43,107 --> 00:40:46,485 The 747 program was a moon shot. 591 00:40:48,195 --> 00:40:51,657 Boeing bet on itself to put together a fantastic airplane. 592 00:40:52,783 --> 00:40:56,579 And they'd said it's gonna be the safest. It's gonna be the most innovative. 593 00:40:56,662 --> 00:40:58,247 It's gonna be the best. 594 00:41:00,207 --> 00:41:03,210 The 747 revolutionized air travel. 595 00:41:04,128 --> 00:41:06,839 For the very first time, it became affordable 596 00:41:06,922 --> 00:41:09,300 for people to travel internationally, 597 00:41:09,383 --> 00:41:11,510 and it brought the world closer together. 598 00:41:14,430 --> 00:41:16,265 The moon shots like the 747 599 00:41:16,974 --> 00:41:18,976 are what put the Boeing Company on the map. 600 00:41:20,436 --> 00:41:24,315 It was, we're gonna do this at all cost. Whatever it costs, we're gonna do it. 601 00:41:27,234 --> 00:41:29,945 I worked for the Boeing Company for 32 years. 602 00:41:30,446 --> 00:41:32,990 It was a culture of mutual trust, 603 00:41:33,491 --> 00:41:37,161 and we're in this together, building a quality-engineered product 604 00:41:37,244 --> 00:41:38,579 that makes us all proud. 605 00:41:38,662 --> 00:41:40,748 - That looks good. - Okay? Thank you. 606 00:41:43,292 --> 00:41:47,296 When I was working for Boeing, they came out with this team-wear for us, 607 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:49,757 and it had the Boeing logo on it. 608 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,385 You know, and at first, we're like, "Pfft, you know, who wants team-wear?" 609 00:41:53,469 --> 00:41:56,889 But it was amazing when you actually put that shirt on, 610 00:41:56,972 --> 00:41:58,307 and you go out in public. 611 00:41:58,891 --> 00:42:02,436 And I can't tell you how many people that were just, "Oh my God, 612 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,438 you work for Boeing. That is wonderful." 613 00:42:04,522 --> 00:42:05,940 Looking good, Don. 614 00:42:06,023 --> 00:42:08,150 And it really instilled a lot of pride. 615 00:42:08,234 --> 00:42:12,530 Perfect! 616 00:42:12,613 --> 00:42:14,323 All right, all right. Good job, you guys! 617 00:42:14,406 --> 00:42:16,926 - There it is, first one. - First one. 618 00:42:18,452 --> 00:42:22,081 I really loved working there because I had a say. 619 00:42:22,164 --> 00:42:23,791 And when something wasn't right, 620 00:42:23,874 --> 00:42:26,710 I could bring it up, and I wasn't afraid of being fired. 621 00:42:28,087 --> 00:42:30,839 Boeing management knew that safety came first, 622 00:42:30,923 --> 00:42:33,801 and if we'd said, "Hey, it's not safe. It's not ready to fly," 623 00:42:33,884 --> 00:42:35,052 we're... we're not going. 624 00:42:37,763 --> 00:42:41,433 The culture back then was we're all in this together, 625 00:42:41,517 --> 00:42:43,852 and, you know, Boeing's gonna look out for you, 626 00:42:43,936 --> 00:42:46,480 and we expect you to look out for Boeing. 627 00:42:46,564 --> 00:42:48,482 Now will you please join me in welcoming 628 00:42:48,566 --> 00:42:52,570 the 777 division vice president and general manager, Alan Mulally. 629 00:42:53,904 --> 00:42:55,614 So, good morning to you all. 630 00:42:56,657 --> 00:42:59,910 There was a sense of belonging and a sense of structure 631 00:42:59,994 --> 00:43:02,079 and a sense of family. 632 00:43:02,871 --> 00:43:03,956 We were a family. 633 00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:06,125 We've come a long way together. 634 00:43:06,208 --> 00:43:08,669 It was an excellent company to work for. 635 00:43:11,630 --> 00:43:16,176 And then, imagine coming into work, and you got a whole new set of bosses, 636 00:43:16,260 --> 00:43:19,722 and everything you've learned in 30 years is now wrong. 637 00:43:19,805 --> 00:43:23,267 Good evening, everyone. It is a multibillion-dollar deal 638 00:43:23,350 --> 00:43:26,103 that is sending shock waves through the aerospace industry. 639 00:43:26,186 --> 00:43:28,063 The planned merger between the Boeing Company 640 00:43:28,147 --> 00:43:29,273 and McDonnell Douglas. 641 00:43:29,857 --> 00:43:33,527 The thought that was going through my head as I walked up here was, "Wow." 642 00:43:33,611 --> 00:43:39,366 I will serve as the chairman and CEO of the company. 643 00:43:39,450 --> 00:43:42,578 Harry Stonecipher will serve as the president 644 00:43:42,661 --> 00:43:45,372 and chief operating officer of the company. 645 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,250 And our intention, like we expect 646 00:43:48,334 --> 00:43:51,837 of everyone in the organization is to work together. 647 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,798 And with that, I'd like to introduce Harry Stonecipher. Harry. 648 00:43:56,133 --> 00:43:57,301 Thank you, Phil. 649 00:43:57,384 --> 00:43:58,636 Ladies and gentlemen... 650 00:43:59,136 --> 00:44:03,557 The 1996 acquisition of McDonnell Douglas by Boeing 651 00:44:03,641 --> 00:44:06,769 was part and parcel of what was happening across the country. 652 00:44:07,978 --> 00:44:10,689 Merger, buyouts, consolidation. 653 00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:15,402 That was the way companies viewed their ability to stay competitive. 654 00:44:16,570 --> 00:44:19,531 Boeing's place in the aviation industry 655 00:44:19,615 --> 00:44:20,783 was preeminent. 656 00:44:20,866 --> 00:44:22,159 They were the gold standard. 657 00:44:22,242 --> 00:44:25,162 They were the people you looked up to for their engineering excellence. 658 00:44:26,121 --> 00:44:31,001 But that began to fall apart when McDonnell Douglas and Boeing merged. 659 00:44:32,753 --> 00:44:36,674 Harry Stonecipher was the CEO of McDonnell Douglas, 660 00:44:36,757 --> 00:44:40,511 and he ended up the CEO of the Boeing Company. 661 00:44:41,220 --> 00:44:43,055 So, pretty quickly, 662 00:44:43,138 --> 00:44:46,350 McDonnell Douglas became in charge at the very top. 663 00:44:47,851 --> 00:44:51,021 This was following on the heels of the 1980s 664 00:44:51,605 --> 00:44:53,691 when cash was king on Wall Street. 665 00:44:54,566 --> 00:44:56,193 You know, uh, "Greed is good." 666 00:44:59,113 --> 00:45:03,992 When Harry Stonecipher took over, he believed that the most important thing 667 00:45:04,076 --> 00:45:07,162 was to take a company and create value on Wall Street. 668 00:45:07,663 --> 00:45:09,790 He said, "Hey, we're in business to make money." 669 00:45:10,290 --> 00:45:15,045 I want to hear about product and margin. I want to hear that it's cost-effective. 670 00:45:16,672 --> 00:45:18,465 The McDonnell Douglas leadership 671 00:45:18,549 --> 00:45:20,801 took Boeing in a more accelerated direction 672 00:45:20,884 --> 00:45:23,470 toward being a financially driven company. 673 00:45:24,221 --> 00:45:26,348 Wall Street demanded its shareholder returns. 674 00:45:26,432 --> 00:45:30,602 And they wanted Boeing to act like a big industrial company 675 00:45:30,686 --> 00:45:32,396 that delivered those returns. 676 00:45:34,523 --> 00:45:36,400 Not long after the merger, 677 00:45:36,483 --> 00:45:39,528 there was a major campaign launched 678 00:45:39,611 --> 00:45:40,863 called ShareValue. 679 00:45:41,655 --> 00:45:46,034 And the idea was that they wanted everybody to be aware of the stock price, 680 00:45:46,535 --> 00:45:50,414 and they wanted everybody working together to increase the stock value. 681 00:45:52,291 --> 00:45:53,709 Even the technical meetings, 682 00:45:53,792 --> 00:45:56,712 everything revolved around Boeing stock prices. 683 00:45:58,172 --> 00:46:01,383 To turn around and see the McDonnell Douglas executives 684 00:46:01,467 --> 00:46:04,261 bringing their business plan into the Boeing Company, 685 00:46:04,344 --> 00:46:05,429 that upset a lot of us. 686 00:46:06,263 --> 00:46:08,766 We knew back then that that was a bad plan. 687 00:46:10,058 --> 00:46:13,979 They drove the company as if it was making washing machines, for instance. 688 00:46:14,062 --> 00:46:15,564 Dishwashers. 689 00:46:16,148 --> 00:46:19,777 All the airplanes had to be manufactured more cheaply. 690 00:46:20,944 --> 00:46:23,489 They were reducing the number of people working, 691 00:46:23,572 --> 00:46:25,949 expecting everyone to do more with less. 692 00:46:27,993 --> 00:46:31,121 We saw the company changing before our eyes. 693 00:46:33,624 --> 00:46:37,127 You know, I'd been working there in the Seattle area for a long time, 694 00:46:37,211 --> 00:46:39,755 and the environment that we ended up merging with 695 00:46:40,339 --> 00:46:41,715 was so different. 696 00:46:42,299 --> 00:46:44,802 McDonnell Douglas was the good old boys' network. 697 00:46:45,761 --> 00:46:49,264 They weren't respectful of our processes for our employees. 698 00:46:50,724 --> 00:46:55,437 And then we were told they were moving the headquarters to Chicago. 699 00:46:55,521 --> 00:46:58,148 It is official. Boeing is confirming that it's moving 700 00:46:58,232 --> 00:47:00,442 its new international headquarters to Chicago. 701 00:47:01,109 --> 00:47:04,863 And all of us that had been there more than a week was like, "You're crazy." 702 00:47:05,447 --> 00:47:10,327 Because back then, Boeing was Seattle, and Seattle was Boeing. I mean they were... 703 00:47:11,036 --> 00:47:12,162 They were lockstep. 704 00:47:12,663 --> 00:47:14,540 We looked at all the data, 705 00:47:14,623 --> 00:47:18,335 and we believe that Chicago is the best choice for Boeing. 706 00:47:21,213 --> 00:47:23,715 One of the arguments for moving to Chicago 707 00:47:23,799 --> 00:47:28,262 was to gain separation from the technical people back in Seattle 708 00:47:29,388 --> 00:47:32,474 so that executives could make financial decisions 709 00:47:32,558 --> 00:47:36,520 without as much pushback from, um, engineers. 710 00:47:37,938 --> 00:47:41,024 Before McDonnell Douglas, we just didn't take shortcuts 711 00:47:41,108 --> 00:47:43,402 'cause it just wasn't the Boeing culture. 712 00:47:43,485 --> 00:47:44,485 No shortcuts. 713 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:46,738 You do it right, 714 00:47:46,822 --> 00:47:49,032 and you build in the quality and the safety, 715 00:47:49,116 --> 00:47:50,409 and the profits will follow. 716 00:47:51,743 --> 00:47:53,495 But all that changed, 717 00:47:53,996 --> 00:47:55,873 and it was just heartbreaking. 718 00:47:57,666 --> 00:48:00,878 I think we all tried to appease ourselves by saying, 719 00:48:00,961 --> 00:48:03,255 "Well, maybe we're just upset because it's a change." 720 00:48:04,923 --> 00:48:08,802 But in reality, our gut concerns were really valid at the time. 721 00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:12,639 That... that this was going to affect the company in... in ways 722 00:48:12,723 --> 00:48:14,850 that we couldn't... couldn't even imagine. 723 00:48:17,394 --> 00:48:18,812 It's been a bad year for Boeing 724 00:48:18,896 --> 00:48:22,065 and a better year for its European competitor, Airbus. 725 00:48:22,149 --> 00:48:25,527 For the year, Boeing has 368 new orders, 726 00:48:25,611 --> 00:48:28,196 and Airbus has 427. 727 00:48:28,822 --> 00:48:31,283 By the time that the merger in 1997 happened, 728 00:48:31,950 --> 00:48:35,495 the competition had just chipped away at the market share 729 00:48:36,163 --> 00:48:39,124 that Boeing had fought to acquire over decades. 730 00:48:40,459 --> 00:48:45,088 Boeing found themselves in a very unusual position. 731 00:48:46,340 --> 00:48:49,426 They were being challenged by other manufacturers, 732 00:48:49,509 --> 00:48:53,055 and that pressure was primarily coming from the Europeans, 733 00:48:53,972 --> 00:48:55,057 meaning Airbus. 734 00:48:56,308 --> 00:48:58,644 Over the years, there has been a lot 735 00:48:58,727 --> 00:49:01,313 of bad blood between Boeing and Airbus. 736 00:49:02,439 --> 00:49:03,982 But here's the thing about Airbus, 737 00:49:04,066 --> 00:49:06,193 it didn't happen overnight 738 00:49:06,276 --> 00:49:09,613 that it became this incredible force in the industry. 739 00:49:10,489 --> 00:49:12,824 It happened one little piece at a time. 740 00:49:13,492 --> 00:49:15,911 It was a slow build, 741 00:49:15,994 --> 00:49:17,996 little by little, little by little, 742 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:22,918 so that by 2003, Airbus ended up overtaking Boeing's market share. 743 00:49:24,378 --> 00:49:25,712 Boeing was behind. 744 00:49:25,796 --> 00:49:27,422 Boeing needed to catch up. 745 00:49:28,590 --> 00:49:32,886 So they started to push even harder to get the airplanes out. 746 00:49:33,470 --> 00:49:38,934 And over time, the laser focus on safety that had been traditional 747 00:49:39,643 --> 00:49:40,686 was compromised. 748 00:49:44,523 --> 00:49:47,901 My job at Boeing was quality manager. 749 00:49:48,819 --> 00:49:51,259 If something's not right, you need to find it and get it fixed 750 00:49:51,321 --> 00:49:52,321 or get it corrected. 751 00:49:53,490 --> 00:49:57,077 To ensure safety, finding things was what you're supposed to do. 752 00:49:58,912 --> 00:50:02,457 But instead of fixing problems, everything was about speed. 753 00:50:02,541 --> 00:50:06,920 Everything was about getting stuff done. Let's move it. Let's get it done. 754 00:50:07,004 --> 00:50:08,880 You can't stop. You can't slow down. 755 00:50:10,048 --> 00:50:12,718 Used to be when you raise your hand and say, 756 00:50:12,801 --> 00:50:14,177 "We got a problem here," 757 00:50:14,261 --> 00:50:17,055 they would say, "Yeah, you're right. We're gonna fix it." 758 00:50:17,139 --> 00:50:19,641 After the merger with McDonnell Douglas 759 00:50:19,725 --> 00:50:21,268 and the Airbus coming on, 760 00:50:21,768 --> 00:50:23,937 Boeing quit listening to their employees. 761 00:50:24,604 --> 00:50:27,482 So every time I'd raise my hand and say, "Hey, we got a problem here," 762 00:50:27,566 --> 00:50:29,401 they would attack the messenger 763 00:50:29,901 --> 00:50:32,362 and... and ignore the message. 764 00:50:33,405 --> 00:50:36,575 Historically, Boeing was a culture of telling bad news. 765 00:50:36,658 --> 00:50:39,578 They discussed concerns freely in building planes. 766 00:50:40,203 --> 00:50:41,747 Now it became a problem 767 00:50:41,830 --> 00:50:43,957 that you do not bring bad news to the boss. 768 00:50:44,916 --> 00:50:47,085 Boeing had highly-paid CEOs, 769 00:50:47,586 --> 00:50:49,963 whose main incentive was to increase the stock price 770 00:50:50,797 --> 00:50:52,340 and to please Wall Street. 771 00:50:54,509 --> 00:50:58,555 These CEOs demanded that all their managers hit their marks, 772 00:50:58,638 --> 00:51:00,348 and they don't care how they do that. 773 00:51:02,684 --> 00:51:04,978 So I guess to speed up production, 774 00:51:05,062 --> 00:51:09,066 they got quality inspectors, quality managers out of the picture. 775 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,444 A mechanic could speed up his job 776 00:51:13,028 --> 00:51:17,449 by doing the work and then just saying to the guy next to him, "Approve this 777 00:51:17,532 --> 00:51:19,284 so that I can move on to the next spot." 778 00:51:20,077 --> 00:51:21,912 Between me and you, 779 00:51:21,995 --> 00:51:24,456 they didn't put a shim on the landing gear yesterday. 780 00:51:24,539 --> 00:51:26,875 On the lugs. Night shift didn't. 781 00:51:26,958 --> 00:51:28,168 Oh, fuck. 782 00:51:28,251 --> 00:51:31,588 They said we don't have time to fucking put it on. 783 00:51:32,214 --> 00:51:34,466 They have, like, one quality person 784 00:51:34,549 --> 00:51:37,344 for almost a whole building on each shift. 785 00:51:38,220 --> 00:51:41,223 We used to have, you know, 15. 786 00:51:42,891 --> 00:51:45,268 I was getting complaints about debris. 787 00:51:46,061 --> 00:51:50,232 Every day, we were finding crap on airplanes that people were leaving. 788 00:51:50,732 --> 00:51:52,901 There was drawings, tools, 789 00:51:53,693 --> 00:51:54,736 fasteners. 790 00:51:55,445 --> 00:51:57,280 There was this one 787, 791 00:51:57,948 --> 00:51:59,199 and after a test flight, 792 00:51:59,699 --> 00:52:02,577 they found a ladder inside the horizontal stabilizer. 793 00:52:03,203 --> 00:52:06,998 All it would have taken was that ladder to fall up against the jackscrew assembly, 794 00:52:07,082 --> 00:52:09,543 and that... that plane would have been history. 795 00:52:12,838 --> 00:52:16,800 These are pictures of metal shavings in wire bundles. 796 00:52:17,676 --> 00:52:21,638 These shavings can cause a... a fire or a short. 797 00:52:22,931 --> 00:52:25,142 And these aircraft fly by wire, 798 00:52:25,225 --> 00:52:27,811 so if you have a... a short, 799 00:52:28,353 --> 00:52:30,814 it could cause malfunctions in your instruments, 800 00:52:30,897 --> 00:52:34,901 in your landing gear. I mean, everything that runs by wire would be affected. 801 00:52:37,237 --> 00:52:39,156 Boeing whistleblowers have said 802 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:43,285 that anybody that reported a problem at the South Carolina plant 803 00:52:43,368 --> 00:52:44,452 was either fired 804 00:52:45,537 --> 00:52:47,539 or let go or moved on. 805 00:52:49,499 --> 00:52:53,170 My pay was docked for putting quality concerns in writing. 806 00:52:54,254 --> 00:52:57,966 They told us flat out they do not want anything in documentation 807 00:52:58,049 --> 00:53:00,677 so they can maintain culpable deniability. 808 00:53:01,970 --> 00:53:04,014 They don't want anything documented. 809 00:53:16,735 --> 00:53:19,779 There are a lot of questions that still remain unanswered, 810 00:53:19,863 --> 00:53:23,033 and Boeing has yet to provide a single document. 811 00:53:23,116 --> 00:53:27,287 I'm hoping they will provide the documents we've requested voluntarily, 812 00:53:27,787 --> 00:53:29,873 uh, and in the not-too-distant future. 813 00:53:30,665 --> 00:53:33,001 From the start of the investigation, 814 00:53:33,084 --> 00:53:35,337 Boeing has been very difficult to deal with 815 00:53:35,420 --> 00:53:38,131 in terms of interviews and/or documents. 816 00:53:39,549 --> 00:53:41,384 They have essentially ignored 817 00:53:41,468 --> 00:53:43,261 the families of the victims. 818 00:53:46,097 --> 00:53:49,226 Boeing has never reached out to us directly. 819 00:53:50,685 --> 00:53:54,648 It communicates their lack of remorse, their lack of accountability. 820 00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,025 And that's infuriating. 821 00:53:59,486 --> 00:54:01,738 For them, it was business as usual. 822 00:54:02,489 --> 00:54:05,867 But we're the ones who were trying to make sure that 823 00:54:05,951 --> 00:54:09,120 other families never have to deal with what we're dealing with. 824 00:54:10,956 --> 00:54:16,294 We've met with, I don't know, 55 congressmen and women and senators. 825 00:54:17,671 --> 00:54:18,505 It's hard. 826 00:54:18,588 --> 00:54:23,093 You go, and you relive this 55 times in a row 827 00:54:24,803 --> 00:54:26,680 and talk about your daughter dying. 828 00:54:30,350 --> 00:54:33,979 When we held up pictures of our lost loved ones 829 00:54:34,062 --> 00:54:37,148 in the hearing room, we were told, "You're not supposed to do that." 830 00:54:37,232 --> 00:54:39,192 "They're like protest signs." 831 00:54:40,318 --> 00:54:42,737 And we said, "They're not protest signs." 832 00:54:43,363 --> 00:54:44,864 "They're our loved ones." 833 00:54:47,826 --> 00:54:52,372 I personally have probably been at s... seven hearings. 834 00:54:52,455 --> 00:54:55,875 Good afternoon. Thank you for inviting me to testify today. 835 00:54:56,376 --> 00:54:58,044 My name is Ed Pierson. 836 00:54:58,128 --> 00:55:01,089 I believe production problems at the Renton Factory 837 00:55:01,172 --> 00:55:04,175 may have contributed to these two tragic crashes. 838 00:55:04,884 --> 00:55:09,097 I formally warned Boeing leadership in writing on multiple occasions, 839 00:55:09,180 --> 00:55:11,891 specifically once before the Lion Air crash 840 00:55:11,975 --> 00:55:14,227 and again before the Ethiopian Airlines crash. 841 00:55:15,061 --> 00:55:18,315 Those warnings were ignored. On June 9th... 842 00:55:18,398 --> 00:55:23,111 We've heard lots of testimony about the 737 Max, 843 00:55:24,321 --> 00:55:27,699 but the committee wanted actual documents from Boeing. 844 00:55:29,075 --> 00:55:31,745 No documents had been received, nothing. 845 00:55:31,828 --> 00:55:34,331 We fully expect at a future hearing 846 00:55:34,414 --> 00:55:35,957 to have Boeing into this committee, 847 00:55:36,041 --> 00:55:39,419 uh, once we have, uh, the documentation digested 848 00:55:39,502 --> 00:55:43,673 that we need to ask the meaningful, very pointed questions we will ask. 849 00:55:44,257 --> 00:55:48,428 I was really frustrated. I thought that Boeing was dragging its feet. 850 00:55:50,430 --> 00:55:54,351 When will you talk to Boeing as part of your ongoing investigation? 851 00:55:54,434 --> 00:55:57,645 I really, uh, want to have documents from Boeing 852 00:55:57,729 --> 00:56:01,900 before I call them as a witness so we get the meaningful information we want 853 00:56:01,983 --> 00:56:04,319 and not just a pile of stuff this high. 854 00:56:05,028 --> 00:56:07,530 Congress expected answers. 855 00:56:07,614 --> 00:56:10,825 The families of the victims expected answers. 856 00:56:12,410 --> 00:56:17,040 But Boeing actively tried to keep emails and documents 857 00:56:17,123 --> 00:56:20,377 and internal memos out of the public domain. 858 00:56:28,426 --> 00:56:32,472 You know, they say aircraft crashes are a combination of events 859 00:56:32,555 --> 00:56:34,474 that all come together uniquely. 860 00:56:35,975 --> 00:56:38,395 In this case, one of those events 861 00:56:38,478 --> 00:56:41,189 was back when Boeing lost its competitive edge. 862 00:56:42,524 --> 00:56:45,151 These days, Boeing finds itself facing turbulence 863 00:56:45,235 --> 00:56:46,945 caused not by the weather 864 00:56:47,028 --> 00:56:49,614 but by a foreign rival with some very big ambitions. 865 00:56:50,198 --> 00:56:54,077 Airbus now leads the world in building commercial airplanes, 866 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:58,123 a big stick in the eye to America and to the Boeing Corporation. 867 00:56:59,124 --> 00:57:02,502 In the 2000s, Airbus was on a roll. 868 00:57:03,211 --> 00:57:06,381 They had several years of selling more planes than Boeing. 869 00:57:07,215 --> 00:57:08,466 And that raised eyebrows. 870 00:57:08,967 --> 00:57:12,178 In 1999, Boeing delivered 620 planes. 871 00:57:12,262 --> 00:57:14,013 Last year, 285. 872 00:57:15,265 --> 00:57:17,600 And then, in 2010, 873 00:57:18,351 --> 00:57:21,354 Airbus introduced the A320neo. 874 00:57:24,232 --> 00:57:30,864 For carriers, the ultimate goal, of course, is maximum fuel efficiency. 875 00:57:31,823 --> 00:57:36,202 A big part of an airline's cost is what they paid for fuel. 876 00:57:37,662 --> 00:57:40,039 Oil prices had gone to record levels. 877 00:57:40,123 --> 00:57:43,418 Airlines were saying, "We need fuel efficiency, and we need it now." 878 00:57:44,085 --> 00:57:45,462 And Airbus delivered. 879 00:57:46,254 --> 00:57:47,839 The 320neo. 880 00:57:48,381 --> 00:57:51,092 You scored an absolute home run 881 00:57:51,176 --> 00:57:56,097 by making that decision to get out there and offer it before Boeing. 882 00:57:56,181 --> 00:58:01,060 No airplane in aviation history has ever sold so quickly and so well. 883 00:58:02,854 --> 00:58:07,942 Back in Chicago, the neo sent Boeing into a panic 884 00:58:08,026 --> 00:58:10,069 because they didn't have a plane ready to compete. 885 00:58:11,696 --> 00:58:14,240 Boeing thought about a new aircraft, 886 00:58:14,324 --> 00:58:17,619 but the price tag would have been significant. 887 00:58:18,453 --> 00:58:21,039 And they didn't have the luxury 888 00:58:21,122 --> 00:58:25,960 of taking seven, eight, ten years to develop a brand-new plane. 889 00:58:28,922 --> 00:58:33,051 So instead, they decided to put more fuel-efficient engines 890 00:58:33,551 --> 00:58:35,929 on the existing 737 model. 891 00:58:36,971 --> 00:58:39,057 We are making a decision 892 00:58:39,140 --> 00:58:41,976 to invest in the 737 family. 893 00:58:42,060 --> 00:58:44,437 We are announcing the 737 Max. 894 00:58:45,647 --> 00:58:49,651 The 737 Max gives our airline customers 895 00:58:49,734 --> 00:58:51,611 the most efficient airplane 896 00:58:52,278 --> 00:58:53,947 in the single-aisle segment. 897 00:58:55,406 --> 00:58:58,660 We were disappointed. We wanted a new airplane. 898 00:58:59,452 --> 00:59:03,456 We really believed the 37 had... was long in the tooth and had... 899 00:59:03,540 --> 00:59:06,751 We had squeezed as much as we possibly could from that airplane. 900 00:59:07,252 --> 00:59:09,921 I mean, the design was over 40 years old. 901 00:59:15,093 --> 00:59:19,556 The 737 had been flying for more than four decades, 902 00:59:20,139 --> 00:59:23,226 and different versions of them had been developed. 903 00:59:24,102 --> 00:59:26,062 A little bit better of an engine, 904 00:59:26,563 --> 00:59:27,897 digital cockpits, 905 00:59:28,523 --> 00:59:29,732 a little longer. 906 00:59:30,650 --> 00:59:36,030 The 737 Max was seen as a slightly updated, 907 00:59:36,114 --> 00:59:38,783 more fuel-efficient version of the same plane. 908 00:59:40,034 --> 00:59:41,536 For a manufacturer, 909 00:59:42,036 --> 00:59:43,955 the advantage of these derivatives, 910 00:59:44,038 --> 00:59:45,456 as they're called, 911 00:59:45,540 --> 00:59:49,877 was they required less time to get approved by the FAA. 912 00:59:52,046 --> 00:59:54,632 And the added benefit to the airlines 913 00:59:54,716 --> 00:59:58,511 was you might not need any additional pilot training. 914 00:59:59,220 --> 01:00:02,640 Training pilots is a major cost of operating an airline. 915 01:00:03,224 --> 01:00:07,353 Despite how expensive the airplanes are, it's the people that cost the most. 916 01:00:07,437 --> 01:00:10,940 And training pilots is a major piece of that pie. 917 01:00:12,483 --> 01:00:16,779 If the Max turned out to be too different from the existing 737, 918 01:00:17,447 --> 01:00:19,699 that would have triggered immediately 919 01:00:19,782 --> 01:00:21,492 an FAA red flag. 920 01:00:22,493 --> 01:00:25,121 And simulator training would be required fleet-wide 921 01:00:25,204 --> 01:00:26,664 for all Max pilots. 922 01:00:28,750 --> 01:00:31,502 We're talking about devoted simulator training, 923 01:00:32,003 --> 01:00:34,130 taking pilots off the flight line, 924 01:00:34,213 --> 01:00:36,049 not having them fly passengers. 925 01:00:36,674 --> 01:00:38,801 Getting them to come into a training center 926 01:00:38,885 --> 01:00:42,013 and sit for, whatever, two days in a simulator. 927 01:00:43,056 --> 01:00:46,017 So when Boeing was designing the Max, 928 01:00:46,517 --> 01:00:48,811 in order to remain competitive, 929 01:00:48,895 --> 01:00:51,064 they made guarantees to the airlines 930 01:00:51,564 --> 01:00:54,275 that their pilots wouldn't need simulator training. 931 01:00:55,568 --> 01:00:57,236 The strategy worked, 932 01:00:57,737 --> 01:01:00,323 and the 737 Max sold phenomenally well. 933 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,702 Boeing got orders for hundreds and hundreds of airplanes. 934 01:01:04,786 --> 01:01:08,623 This is the largest firm order that we've ever gotten, 935 01:01:09,123 --> 01:01:12,585 in terms of number of airplanes and also the value of this deal. 936 01:01:12,669 --> 01:01:15,254 So, truly another historical day for us. 937 01:01:16,923 --> 01:01:19,634 Boeing thought that they could do this project 938 01:01:19,717 --> 01:01:21,552 very quickly and very cheaply. 939 01:01:21,636 --> 01:01:23,638 That it wouldn't take much effort. 940 01:01:24,138 --> 01:01:26,474 They just thought a little bit of tweak to the structure, 941 01:01:26,557 --> 01:01:30,603 and you can stick an engine on there and lengthen the landing gear, 942 01:01:30,687 --> 01:01:31,979 and you're good to go. 943 01:01:34,732 --> 01:01:38,069 And because there could be no additional pilot training, 944 01:01:38,778 --> 01:01:40,905 there was tons of motivation within the company 945 01:01:40,988 --> 01:01:44,867 to either build a design that doesn't have significant differences 946 01:01:46,119 --> 01:01:49,455 or potentially to cover up a design that does. 947 01:02:10,435 --> 01:02:15,648 We had to go through very lengthy negotiations with Boeing 948 01:02:15,732 --> 01:02:17,358 to receive documents. 949 01:02:18,025 --> 01:02:20,987 We had engaged the House attorneys here, 950 01:02:21,529 --> 01:02:23,698 and then we finally started getting 951 01:02:24,407 --> 01:02:28,453 the first of the hundreds of thousands of pages of documents that they gave us. 952 01:02:33,458 --> 01:02:35,460 And my investigative staff 953 01:02:35,543 --> 01:02:37,211 started going through it. 954 01:02:41,716 --> 01:02:44,761 Virtually everything was stamped "proprietary," 955 01:02:45,428 --> 01:02:48,097 and it took quite some time to come to an agreement 956 01:02:48,181 --> 01:02:51,851 so we could reveal the contents of those documents. 957 01:02:54,645 --> 01:03:00,276 And I think the reason is because they are so damning on their face. 958 01:03:01,694 --> 01:03:03,988 In that massive tranche of documents, 959 01:03:04,572 --> 01:03:06,532 one was particularly telling. 960 01:03:08,534 --> 01:03:11,037 We found out that a group of Boeing employees 961 01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:15,666 had held a meeting and discussed the MCAS system. 962 01:03:17,001 --> 01:03:21,047 This memo, discovered by the committee, and this is early on 963 01:03:21,130 --> 01:03:22,715 in the development of the aircraft, 964 01:03:22,799 --> 01:03:27,303 revealed that the MCAS system was a problem for Boeing 965 01:03:27,386 --> 01:03:28,805 from the very beginning. 966 01:03:30,181 --> 01:03:31,974 Back in 2013, 967 01:03:32,058 --> 01:03:35,186 when Boeing was just starting to build the Max, 968 01:03:35,269 --> 01:03:38,314 they were re-engining a 45-year-old airframe 969 01:03:38,815 --> 01:03:41,776 with these giant, new fuel-efficient engines. 970 01:03:42,485 --> 01:03:44,612 Because these engines are bigger, 971 01:03:45,112 --> 01:03:49,158 they had to be positioned further forward and higher up on the wings. 972 01:03:49,826 --> 01:03:53,204 And so Boeing was worried about the plane 973 01:03:53,287 --> 01:03:56,499 getting into, uh, too much of a nose-up, 974 01:03:56,999 --> 01:03:59,252 and then the plane could stall. 975 01:04:00,419 --> 01:04:03,089 So, if it starts to pitch up, 976 01:04:03,172 --> 01:04:06,968 MCAS was designed to help the pilot level the plane out. 977 01:04:09,470 --> 01:04:13,558 The problem was MCAS was a significant new system 978 01:04:13,641 --> 01:04:18,187 and could prompt the FAA to require some additional training. 979 01:04:19,021 --> 01:04:21,858 So, what's the solution in th... in this memo? 980 01:04:23,109 --> 01:04:26,821 They said, "If we emphasize MCAS is a new function, 981 01:04:27,572 --> 01:04:30,867 there may be greater certification and training impact." 982 01:04:32,034 --> 01:04:35,454 Everybody at Boeing knew you can't have pilot retraining. 983 01:04:35,538 --> 01:04:38,082 No matter what we do, no matter how we change this plane, 984 01:04:38,165 --> 01:04:42,295 we've gotta pretend it's the same plane as the predecessor. 985 01:04:44,255 --> 01:04:46,090 So they decided, 986 01:04:46,173 --> 01:04:50,720 "Externally, we would communicate it is an addition to Speed Trim." 987 01:04:51,345 --> 01:04:56,142 Speed Trim is the existing system, which pilots had already been trained on. 988 01:04:57,393 --> 01:05:01,022 "Internally continue using the acronym MCAS." 989 01:05:02,648 --> 01:05:05,568 They determined that they would conceal the existence 990 01:05:05,651 --> 01:05:09,614 to anybody, uh, outside of Boeing of the MCAS system. 991 01:05:12,617 --> 01:05:16,329 Once these documents became public, it showed 992 01:05:16,412 --> 01:05:20,458 that there were major, big issues broiling under the surface 993 01:05:21,042 --> 01:05:25,171 and a widespread pattern inside Boeing of deceitful behavior. 994 01:05:26,547 --> 01:05:32,094 This next piece of evidence was one of the most important specific documents 995 01:05:32,178 --> 01:05:35,765 relating to the design of the plane and of the MCAS system. 996 01:05:37,099 --> 01:05:41,312 It shows that MCAS changed over the course of the design. 997 01:05:42,438 --> 01:05:46,442 Boeing didn't end up with the same system that they started out with. 998 01:05:47,234 --> 01:05:49,987 To begin with, it became much more powerful. 999 01:05:51,948 --> 01:05:55,910 It wasn't until Boeing got into flight testing that they realized 1000 01:05:55,993 --> 01:05:59,497 that they actually had to expand how the MCAS system worked. 1001 01:06:00,331 --> 01:06:03,542 They thought at first that it was only gonna be for when the airplane 1002 01:06:03,626 --> 01:06:04,877 was at high speeds. 1003 01:06:06,337 --> 01:06:09,548 But what became clear was that the Max needed MCAS 1004 01:06:09,632 --> 01:06:12,718 when the airplane was flying at low speeds as well. 1005 01:06:14,136 --> 01:06:16,722 And it was this transition to low-speed handling 1006 01:06:16,806 --> 01:06:19,767 that made the system far more significant. 1007 01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,397 The result was is that MCAS gained more power. 1008 01:06:25,439 --> 01:06:27,942 So it had the ability to make larger movements 1009 01:06:28,025 --> 01:06:29,527 of the horizontal stabilizer, 1010 01:06:30,027 --> 01:06:33,531 which could push the nose of the airplane down very quickly. 1011 01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:41,372 In addition to this increased power of the system, 1012 01:06:41,455 --> 01:06:45,459 there was a second change, something even more problematic. 1013 01:06:46,377 --> 01:06:51,841 Boeing changed the MCAS system to only use one sensor instead of two. 1014 01:06:55,177 --> 01:06:58,472 It turns out this way more powerful system 1015 01:06:58,556 --> 01:07:02,351 was controlled by just one angle-of-attack sensor. 1016 01:07:03,519 --> 01:07:06,689 The MCAS system is safety-critical. 1017 01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:10,693 And on an airplane, you never ever have 1018 01:07:10,776 --> 01:07:15,614 a safety-critical system that has a single point of failure. 1019 01:07:17,116 --> 01:07:18,743 The angle-of-attack sensors 1020 01:07:19,243 --> 01:07:22,788 protrude out of either side of the fuselage, near the cockpit. 1021 01:07:23,789 --> 01:07:26,834 If a happy-birthday Mylar balloon 1022 01:07:26,917 --> 01:07:30,171 gets stuck on that vane, it becomes unreliable. 1023 01:07:32,089 --> 01:07:34,842 Believe it or not, we hit balloons, we hit birds, 1024 01:07:35,342 --> 01:07:39,722 uh, and all of these things, uh, are not uncommon. 1025 01:07:41,599 --> 01:07:44,727 If that sensor is damaged or faulty, 1026 01:07:45,311 --> 01:07:48,439 it will send a wrong message to the MCAS system, 1027 01:07:48,522 --> 01:07:51,776 which then tries to take over the plane from the pilots. 1028 01:07:53,736 --> 01:07:58,199 None of this was communicated by anybody at Boeing 1029 01:07:58,282 --> 01:08:03,370 to the FAA engineer who was in charge of oversight, 1030 01:08:03,954 --> 01:08:05,748 and yeah, it should have been. 1031 01:08:06,499 --> 01:08:08,709 The FAA was kept out of the loop. 1032 01:08:09,418 --> 01:08:11,462 Usually, there's a constant negotiation 1033 01:08:11,962 --> 01:08:15,257 between... between a regulator and the regulated 1034 01:08:15,341 --> 01:08:17,843 about what parts of the airplane are gonna change. 1035 01:08:19,553 --> 01:08:21,430 But in the case of Boeing, 1036 01:08:21,514 --> 01:08:23,641 they had a culture of concealment, 1037 01:08:24,183 --> 01:08:28,312 deliberate concealment regarding the MCAS system. 1038 01:08:29,772 --> 01:08:32,274 And the evidence kept mounting. 1039 01:08:36,445 --> 01:08:39,073 Coordination sheets are technical documents 1040 01:08:39,156 --> 01:08:41,867 written to archive information. 1041 01:08:43,828 --> 01:08:48,833 This coord sheet is capturing the history of MCAS. 1042 01:08:50,334 --> 01:08:52,711 This is basically about the safety issues 1043 01:08:52,795 --> 01:08:55,005 that were analyzed inside Boeing, 1044 01:08:55,714 --> 01:08:58,759 and the most relevant part of this dealt 1045 01:08:58,843 --> 01:09:01,470 with how quickly pilots would be able to react 1046 01:09:01,554 --> 01:09:03,347 if the system went haywire. 1047 01:09:05,891 --> 01:09:08,811 I haven't seen this particular coord sheet before. 1048 01:09:09,812 --> 01:09:10,812 Hmm. 1049 01:09:14,150 --> 01:09:17,111 With pilot training to recognize the runaway, 1050 01:09:17,194 --> 01:09:20,739 a reaction time scenario greater than ten seconds 1051 01:09:20,823 --> 01:09:23,033 found the failure to be catastrophic. 1052 01:09:24,493 --> 01:09:26,078 So if you don't respond 1053 01:09:26,162 --> 01:09:30,541 in less than ten seconds to this situation, 1054 01:09:31,250 --> 01:09:32,418 you can't recover. 1055 01:09:33,127 --> 01:09:34,295 Ten seconds, 1056 01:09:35,212 --> 01:09:37,965 which is ridiculous. 1057 01:09:40,342 --> 01:09:43,304 But the problem here is not just the reaction time. 1058 01:09:43,846 --> 01:09:46,515 The problem here is the term "pilot training." 1059 01:09:47,850 --> 01:09:51,896 It says, "With pilot training to recognize the runaway," 1060 01:09:52,730 --> 01:09:55,858 they're saying that we can't just throw pilots at this 1061 01:09:55,941 --> 01:09:58,485 without awareness of the system. 1062 01:09:59,195 --> 01:10:03,657 And... which... which that's the real "gotcha" right in this statement. 1063 01:10:04,867 --> 01:10:10,039 Pilots need to be trained on MCAS to potentially avoid killing people. 1064 01:10:11,624 --> 01:10:14,168 And Boeing knew that this was the case. 1065 01:10:15,711 --> 01:10:17,963 And yet pilot training never happened. 1066 01:10:22,968 --> 01:10:27,640 Our reporting and the memos and documents that had been released 1067 01:10:27,723 --> 01:10:31,352 revealed an underbelly, an underside of the company. 1068 01:10:32,519 --> 01:10:37,650 In this March 28, 2017, internal Boeing communication, 1069 01:10:38,150 --> 01:10:42,488 the chief technical pilot for the 737 Max writes, 1070 01:10:42,571 --> 01:10:45,407 "I want to stress the importance of holding firm 1071 01:10:45,491 --> 01:10:49,745 that there will not be any type of simulator training required." 1072 01:10:50,829 --> 01:10:53,624 "Boeing will not allow that to happen." 1073 01:10:54,375 --> 01:10:59,046 "We'll go face-to-face with any regulator who tries to make that a requirement." 1074 01:11:00,339 --> 01:11:01,799 The tragedy of it is, 1075 01:11:01,882 --> 01:11:05,552 some of these emails were actually conversations with Lion Air. 1076 01:11:06,595 --> 01:11:10,266 In a June 6, 2017 email exchange, 1077 01:11:10,349 --> 01:11:12,977 which took place the year before the crash, 1078 01:11:13,060 --> 01:11:16,689 Lion Air says, in effect, wouldn't it be better, 1079 01:11:16,772 --> 01:11:19,900 wouldn't it be safer to have some additional training? 1080 01:11:20,401 --> 01:11:23,487 We want more than you're... you're recommending. 1081 01:11:24,822 --> 01:11:28,701 And Boeing writes, flat out, "There is absolutely no reason 1082 01:11:28,784 --> 01:11:31,787 to require a Max simulator to begin flying the Max." 1083 01:11:33,622 --> 01:11:37,293 If they had said what the true power of MCAS was, 1084 01:11:38,043 --> 01:11:42,881 simulator training would be required fleet-wide for all 737 Max pilots. 1085 01:11:44,091 --> 01:11:47,219 Instead, Boeing literally mocked Lion Air, 1086 01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:50,681 mocked them for wanting to have simulator training. 1087 01:11:52,725 --> 01:11:55,602 Boeing had to, you know, berate them. 1088 01:11:56,103 --> 01:11:59,606 "You cannot have simulator training." 1089 01:11:59,690 --> 01:12:02,026 "You can't do it. It costs money. We lose money." 1090 01:12:03,527 --> 01:12:08,741 They talked about Jedi-mind tricking regulators around the world 1091 01:12:09,491 --> 01:12:14,705 into adopting the standard of no simulator training required. 1092 01:12:15,664 --> 01:12:19,835 So, we're supposed to react in less than ten seconds 1093 01:12:19,918 --> 01:12:24,131 to a system that's never been on any airplane we've ever flown before. 1094 01:12:25,174 --> 01:12:30,137 Boeing knew pilots had a monster waiting for them 1095 01:12:30,220 --> 01:12:31,430 in the MCAS system, 1096 01:12:32,264 --> 01:12:35,768 but they conspire to not offer training. 1097 01:12:37,311 --> 01:12:38,311 It's just 1098 01:12:39,229 --> 01:12:40,689 unconscionable to me. 1099 01:12:40,773 --> 01:12:42,816 It just... 1100 01:12:43,901 --> 01:12:44,901 It's nuts. 1101 01:12:49,114 --> 01:12:51,450 In the end, Boeing succeeded, 1102 01:12:52,409 --> 01:12:55,329 and when the plane was delivered to airlines, 1103 01:12:55,412 --> 01:12:59,166 it didn't appear from the outside 1104 01:12:59,249 --> 01:13:02,461 that there was something fundamentally wrong with the aircraft. 1105 01:13:04,046 --> 01:13:07,049 I mean, they were making sales all over the world. 1106 01:13:11,303 --> 01:13:14,431 Boeing sold over 5,000 Maxes. 1107 01:13:15,057 --> 01:13:16,517 It's an unbelievable number. 1108 01:13:17,643 --> 01:13:21,146 It really was the product that brought the financial performance 1109 01:13:21,230 --> 01:13:24,358 on Wall Street up to a... a level that Boeing had never seen before. 1110 01:13:25,317 --> 01:13:27,319 Boeing's profit soared. 1111 01:13:28,112 --> 01:13:30,697 The stock value went through the roof. 1112 01:13:31,573 --> 01:13:33,242 And that was the whole idea. 1113 01:13:33,826 --> 01:13:37,162 Performance was being judged in quarterly returns, 1114 01:13:37,913 --> 01:13:39,248 and the Max delivered. 1115 01:13:40,666 --> 01:13:45,129 The 737 Max was going to be the major meal ticket for Boeing 1116 01:13:45,212 --> 01:13:46,380 for coming decades. 1117 01:13:46,463 --> 01:13:49,258 This is a company that, yeah, 500's a reasonable number. 1118 01:13:49,341 --> 01:13:52,261 And it was seen as a sure thing. 1119 01:13:57,891 --> 01:14:00,561 Unprecedented value for our customers, 1120 01:14:00,644 --> 01:14:03,647 in terms of saving fuel, in terms of being reliable, 1121 01:14:03,730 --> 01:14:05,315 in terms of being maintainable. 1122 01:14:05,399 --> 01:14:07,860 And you know what we've done? We've created an airplane 1123 01:14:07,943 --> 01:14:11,738 that's gonna exceed their expectations by any way you measure it. 1124 01:14:13,615 --> 01:14:16,785 Everyone thought that the good times would never end. 1125 01:14:20,205 --> 01:14:23,167 And then, in October of 2018, they did. 1126 01:14:32,217 --> 01:14:34,678 The Lion Air pilots not only didn't know 1127 01:14:34,761 --> 01:14:36,305 how this system worked, 1128 01:14:36,388 --> 01:14:38,765 they didn't know the name of the system. 1129 01:14:39,266 --> 01:14:43,979 They didn't even know that the MCAS system was on the aircraft. 1130 01:14:47,107 --> 01:14:50,444 You just got the airplane into the air, and all of a sudden, bang, 1131 01:14:50,527 --> 01:14:53,280 all these bells and warnings and whistles and stick shaker going off. 1132 01:14:53,363 --> 01:14:54,683 Airspeed low. 1133 01:14:55,407 --> 01:14:59,411 An angle-of-attack sensor, which had either failed or was damaged, 1134 01:14:59,495 --> 01:15:02,456 was sending a bad input to the cockpit. 1135 01:15:02,539 --> 01:15:04,917 It would have taken more than a few seconds certainly 1136 01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:07,920 for the pilots to determine what the cause was. 1137 01:15:09,213 --> 01:15:12,257 And then as soon as the flaps were retracted, 1138 01:15:13,675 --> 01:15:15,928 MCAS was activated. 1139 01:15:19,348 --> 01:15:20,933 You started the clock, right? 1140 01:15:21,016 --> 01:15:23,101 One Mississippi, two Mississippi, 1141 01:15:23,185 --> 01:15:24,269 three Mississippi... 1142 01:15:27,272 --> 01:15:31,485 The way MCAS kept pushing the nose of the airplane down 1143 01:15:31,568 --> 01:15:32,903 was maniacal. 1144 01:15:32,986 --> 01:15:35,656 And the pilots never understood 1145 01:15:35,739 --> 01:15:37,866 it was trying to kill them. 1146 01:15:38,659 --> 01:15:41,995 Terrain. Terrain. Pull up. Pull up. 1147 01:15:44,957 --> 01:15:46,375 You've got ten seconds, 1148 01:15:48,085 --> 01:15:49,920 which is impossible. 1149 01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:54,800 So basically, ten seconds, you're dead. 1150 01:15:58,178 --> 01:16:01,390 Terrain. Terrain. Pull up. Pull up. 1151 01:16:20,325 --> 01:16:23,579 We now know that within few days of the crash, 1152 01:16:23,662 --> 01:16:25,622 Boeing knew what the problem was. 1153 01:16:27,291 --> 01:16:28,875 They knew what he had faced, 1154 01:16:28,959 --> 01:16:31,503 what my husband had to go through in that flight. 1155 01:16:33,672 --> 01:16:36,300 Boeing knew what the problems were with MCAS. 1156 01:16:37,301 --> 01:16:39,428 It's not that they were not aware of it. 1157 01:16:41,179 --> 01:16:43,307 There should be a sense of responsibility. 1158 01:16:46,310 --> 01:16:47,769 Here in the US, 1159 01:16:47,853 --> 01:16:51,064 they never seriously considered grounding the aircraft. 1160 01:16:52,149 --> 01:16:54,109 After the first crash, 1161 01:16:54,610 --> 01:16:56,445 Boeing was all about, 1162 01:16:56,528 --> 01:17:00,240 how can we justify keeping the planes flying? 1163 01:17:02,618 --> 01:17:06,788 We didn't know at the time that after the Lion Air crash, 1164 01:17:06,872 --> 01:17:10,500 the FAA had done a very technical analysis 1165 01:17:10,584 --> 01:17:11,585 called a TARAM. 1166 01:17:12,961 --> 01:17:14,504 TARAM. T-A-R-A-M. 1167 01:17:14,588 --> 01:17:18,050 A Transport Aircraft Risk Assessment Methodology. 1168 01:17:19,259 --> 01:17:22,512 They've projected that there could be, without a fix, 1169 01:17:22,596 --> 01:17:24,681 15 more crashes 1170 01:17:25,557 --> 01:17:27,267 of this aircraft during its life. 1171 01:17:29,811 --> 01:17:34,441 They projected that there could be as many as one fatal crash 1172 01:17:34,524 --> 01:17:37,027 every two years of a Max. 1173 01:17:38,278 --> 01:17:42,115 That would make the Max the most dangerous modern jet ever built. 1174 01:17:46,328 --> 01:17:48,872 At the time, nobody heard about this report. 1175 01:17:50,165 --> 01:17:51,500 It wasn't made public. 1176 01:17:53,043 --> 01:17:57,297 But we verified that Boeing knew about the results 1177 01:17:57,381 --> 01:18:00,300 at the same time that the FAA knew about them. 1178 01:18:02,177 --> 01:18:05,222 Boeing argued that it's never possible 1179 01:18:05,305 --> 01:18:08,475 to actually predict the timing of another crash 1180 01:18:08,975 --> 01:18:12,396 and that they would have a software fix 1181 01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:16,274 developed and tested and implemented very quickly. 1182 01:18:18,026 --> 01:18:21,405 And in the end, the FAA accepted Boeing's argument. 1183 01:18:23,573 --> 01:18:26,993 There were people, a few people, at Boeing who rang alarm bells, 1184 01:18:27,077 --> 01:18:28,537 but they were ignored. 1185 01:18:29,705 --> 01:18:31,581 Up there in the executive offices, 1186 01:18:31,665 --> 01:18:35,085 they were watching the stock price and calculating their bonuses. 1187 01:18:37,045 --> 01:18:39,673 Just six weeks after the Lion Air crash, 1188 01:18:39,756 --> 01:18:43,051 the Boeing board decided to increase stock buybacks 1189 01:18:43,135 --> 01:18:44,386 and increase dividends. 1190 01:18:45,262 --> 01:18:47,264 Total disregard for what happened. 1191 01:18:47,347 --> 01:18:52,477 All of our customers are flying all of their Maxes daily around the world. 1192 01:18:52,561 --> 01:18:55,564 The airplane is safe, and we're very confident in that. 1193 01:18:57,983 --> 01:19:00,360 It's the corporate culture that they had built up. 1194 01:19:00,444 --> 01:19:01,778 It was their greed. 1195 01:19:03,488 --> 01:19:06,450 Are the profits more important than the human life? 1196 01:19:23,341 --> 01:19:25,761 You know, once they got the TARAM report, 1197 01:19:26,428 --> 01:19:28,847 Boeing should have grounded the Max. 1198 01:19:30,223 --> 01:19:31,433 They didn't do that. 1199 01:19:33,059 --> 01:19:35,645 This was after the Lion Air crash, 1200 01:19:35,729 --> 01:19:37,147 before my daughter died. 1201 01:19:38,648 --> 01:19:40,358 They let it go up in the air. 1202 01:19:43,278 --> 01:19:45,739 I think that is the most disturbing 1203 01:19:45,822 --> 01:19:48,366 and most revealing part of the whole story. 1204 01:19:49,743 --> 01:19:54,206 Boeing did the absolute least that they could do 1205 01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:58,001 to cope with this situation. The absolute minimum. 1206 01:19:59,586 --> 01:20:04,716 Basically, they were betting that the problem would not reoccur 1207 01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:07,511 before a permanent fix could be implemented. 1208 01:20:09,304 --> 01:20:12,307 And of course that turned out to be a fatal mistake. 1209 01:20:15,936 --> 01:20:18,480 It's just a horrible, horrible story. 1210 01:20:33,995 --> 01:20:36,957 Boeing's failure to do everything they could do 1211 01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:41,044 to prevent the second crash made our lives miserable. 1212 01:20:42,462 --> 01:20:44,798 And this isn't just about Samya and our family. 1213 01:20:44,881 --> 01:20:47,676 It's about everybody that died on those planes. 1214 01:20:49,719 --> 01:20:52,764 And so, in October of 2019, 1215 01:20:52,848 --> 01:20:55,308 when Muilenburg was scheduled to testify 1216 01:20:55,392 --> 01:20:56,726 at the Senate hearing, 1217 01:20:57,561 --> 01:21:00,188 we were all highly motivated to be there. 1218 01:21:05,986 --> 01:21:08,071 Muilenburg walks in, 1219 01:21:08,154 --> 01:21:09,197 and for a moment, 1220 01:21:09,990 --> 01:21:12,117 he glanced at us, at the families, 1221 01:21:14,035 --> 01:21:16,329 but he never really looked at us. 1222 01:21:24,045 --> 01:21:30,218 A lot of the testimony that day was about the internal Boeing communications. 1223 01:21:31,511 --> 01:21:33,889 You're the CEO. The buck stops with you. 1224 01:21:33,972 --> 01:21:35,599 Did you read this document? 1225 01:21:36,266 --> 01:21:40,979 And how did your team not run in with their hair on fire, 1226 01:21:41,646 --> 01:21:43,940 saying, "We got a real problem here." 1227 01:21:44,441 --> 01:21:48,820 Senator, when I was made aware of the existence of this kind of document, 1228 01:21:48,904 --> 01:21:52,157 I relied on our counsel to provide that to the appropriate authorities. 1229 01:21:52,991 --> 01:21:54,576 How did you not say, 1230 01:21:54,659 --> 01:21:57,078 "We need to figure out exactly what happened, 1231 01:21:57,662 --> 01:22:00,373 not after all the hearings, not after the pressure, 1232 01:22:00,457 --> 01:22:03,543 but because people have died and we don't want another person to die." 1233 01:22:03,627 --> 01:22:06,838 Senator, as... as you mentioned, uh... uh, 1234 01:22:06,922 --> 01:22:10,342 I didn't, uh, see the details of this exchange until recently. 1235 01:22:10,926 --> 01:22:14,387 Our family at that time still had heard nothing from Boeing. 1236 01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:18,308 We had heard Dennis Muilenburg 1237 01:22:19,142 --> 01:22:21,728 apologize to cameras 1238 01:22:23,355 --> 01:22:24,689 but never to us. 1239 01:22:24,773 --> 01:22:27,943 We began work on an MCAS software update in that time frame. 1240 01:22:28,652 --> 01:22:31,571 When Senator Blumenthal's time came to question, 1241 01:22:31,655 --> 01:22:35,241 he asked the family members to stand up 1242 01:22:35,325 --> 01:22:37,702 and hold their loved ones' pictures. 1243 01:22:37,786 --> 01:22:41,748 To the relatives who have lost loved ones, 1244 01:22:41,831 --> 01:22:44,000 if you could please stand. 1245 01:22:44,668 --> 01:22:46,753 And at that point, 1246 01:22:47,253 --> 01:22:51,049 Dennis Muilenburg had to turn around and look at us. 1247 01:23:31,881 --> 01:23:33,800 In the 21st century, 1248 01:23:34,426 --> 01:23:38,013 to lose two planes within months of each other 1249 01:23:38,096 --> 01:23:39,723 and kill so many people, 1250 01:23:40,223 --> 01:23:42,934 it just never ever ever should have happened. 1251 01:23:44,978 --> 01:23:47,355 The safety culture at Boeing fell apart. 1252 01:23:48,606 --> 01:23:50,650 It was corrupted from the top down 1253 01:23:50,734 --> 01:23:53,194 by pressures from Wall Street, plain and simple. 1254 01:23:54,070 --> 01:23:55,488 Mr. Muilenburg, 1255 01:23:55,572 --> 01:23:58,283 we have seen that, you know, pressures from Wall Street 1256 01:23:58,366 --> 01:24:02,370 have a way of influencing the decisions of the best companies in the worst way, 1257 01:24:03,329 --> 01:24:05,999 endangering the public, jeopardizing the good work 1258 01:24:06,082 --> 01:24:09,419 of countless, countless hardworking employees 1259 01:24:09,502 --> 01:24:10,920 on the factory lines. 1260 01:24:11,629 --> 01:24:14,966 And I hope that's not the story that is ultimately, uh, gonna be written 1261 01:24:15,050 --> 01:24:18,011 about this long-admired company. 1262 01:24:33,943 --> 01:24:35,862 I've thought about this story a lot 1263 01:24:36,362 --> 01:24:39,157 in terms of what it means and what it will mean. 1264 01:24:40,825 --> 01:24:44,162 Some of the mistakes that Boeing made were irreparable. 1265 01:24:46,206 --> 01:24:49,876 The people who died and their families and their friends 1266 01:24:49,959 --> 01:24:52,504 and the lives that ended in tragedy, 1267 01:24:53,004 --> 01:24:54,798 those can never be repaired. 1268 01:25:03,014 --> 01:25:05,016 How many times have you heard companies say, 1269 01:25:05,100 --> 01:25:06,559 "We're committed to excellence." 1270 01:25:06,643 --> 01:25:10,188 "We're committed to safety. We're committed to our customers." 1271 01:25:11,481 --> 01:25:14,651 But no matter how big the company is and how sophisticated 1272 01:25:14,734 --> 01:25:18,696 and what a fantastic past it had, which is all true for Boeing, 1273 01:25:19,364 --> 01:25:20,740 we should be skeptical. 1274 01:25:23,159 --> 01:25:24,953 All of us should be skeptical. 1275 01:25:41,177 --> 01:25:44,347 The Boeing 737 Max planes now back in the air. 1276 01:25:44,430 --> 01:25:46,826 Flight happening today for the first time in nearly two years 1277 01:25:46,850 --> 01:25:48,290 after the planes, they were grounded 1278 01:25:48,351 --> 01:25:51,521 following two fatal crashes that killed hundreds of people. 1279 01:25:51,604 --> 01:25:54,149 Yesterday, we spoke exclusively with Dave Calhoun, 1280 01:25:54,232 --> 01:25:56,484 the president and CEO of Boeing. 1281 01:25:56,568 --> 01:26:00,655 We don't want to hide anything because we're proud of what we do. 1282 01:26:00,738 --> 01:26:04,200 The products that we make are incredible. They're good for humanity. 1283 01:26:04,284 --> 01:26:07,579 And I'm very proud of our team, and I'm very proud of that airplane. 1284 01:26:07,662 --> 01:26:09,789 It is a, uh, remarkable machine 1285 01:26:09,873 --> 01:26:12,292 and as safe as anything... anything in the air. 108932

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