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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:05,631 --> 00:00:06,837 Seven-eight on end. 2 00:00:07,508 --> 00:00:09,294 Oh, and last night, we had trouble with this one. 3 00:00:10,093 --> 00:00:12,505 'How can I go forward ' 4 00:00:12,638 --> 00:00:16,256 'When I don't know which way I'm facing?' 5 00:00:20,103 --> 00:00:21,389 And then the next one goes... 6 00:00:21,688 --> 00:00:23,520 'I don't know which way to turn' 7 00:00:25,108 --> 00:00:27,395 And it's a bit longer. 8 00:00:27,528 --> 00:00:29,895 -And then it goes: ”Oh, no... " -Do that again. 9 00:00:30,447 --> 00:00:32,609 -What? The "how"? -The "How can /..." first. 10 00:00:32,783 --> 00:00:35,775 'How... How can I go forward' 11 00:00:35,953 --> 00:00:40,117 'When I don't know which way I'm facing?' 12 00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:48,503 'How can I go forward ' 13 00:00:48,632 --> 00:00:53,297 'When I don't know which way to turn?' 14 00:01:28,338 --> 00:01:31,501 I was aware that John was making some records. 15 00:01:31,925 --> 00:01:34,166 I had no idea what he was doing, 16 00:01:34,344 --> 00:01:36,836 whether it was a single, whether it was an album. 17 00:01:36,972 --> 00:01:41,011 We knew he was in his own studio doing some recordings. 18 00:01:42,394 --> 00:01:45,762 He'd finished his new album and he wanted to play it to me 19 00:01:45,897 --> 00:01:48,514 in his bedroom and he couldn't work out... 20 00:01:48,692 --> 00:01:51,559 He had this big hi-fi thing and he couldn't make it work. 21 00:01:51,695 --> 00:01:53,732 It was sort of like... You know? 22 00:01:53,864 --> 00:01:56,777 So he gets out this little record player that everyone had, 23 00:01:56,908 --> 00:01:59,900 a little Dansette record player, put it on and put one side on. 24 00:02:02,289 --> 00:02:04,826 I was there ostensibly to listen to the album, 25 00:02:05,292 --> 00:02:07,499 and I noticed that he kept putting it off.? 26 00:02:07,628 --> 00:02:10,416 Did you hear what it says about Self ridges in an American paper? 27 00:02:12,132 --> 00:02:13,714 "John Lennon and his wife, Yoko Ono, 28 00:02:13,884 --> 00:02:15,124 were chased through Self ridges, 29 00:02:15,260 --> 00:02:16,625 London's largest department store, 30 00:02:16,762 --> 00:02:18,423 by a gang of screaming fans." 31 00:02:19,890 --> 00:02:21,676 He said, "Let's go for a walk around the grounds." 32 00:02:21,808 --> 00:02:23,549 We'd go for a walk around the grounds. 33 00:02:23,685 --> 00:02:26,017 He said, "Let's have some iced tea." 34 00:02:26,146 --> 00:02:28,558 By this stage, it's about seven o'clock 35 00:02:28,732 --> 00:02:30,063 and I'm thinking, "I want to hear the album." 36 00:02:30,317 --> 00:02:32,433 And he put on the vinyl. 37 00:02:33,195 --> 00:02:34,777 It was a white-label vinyl, 38 00:02:34,905 --> 00:02:36,566 but no track listings or anything on it. 39 00:02:37,199 --> 00:02:39,736 And he said, "Look, I can't bear to listen to it any more. 40 00:02:39,910 --> 00:02:42,743 I've recorded it. I've mixed it. I've heard it up and down. 41 00:02:42,913 --> 00:02:45,075 I don't know whether it's any good or not, 42 00:02:45,207 --> 00:02:46,823 so I'd like you to have a listen 43 00:02:46,958 --> 00:02:48,995 and come back outside and tell me what you think." 44 00:02:49,586 --> 00:02:51,452 So no pressure, you know? 45 00:02:51,588 --> 00:02:52,749 'No shelf-haired' 46 00:02:52,923 --> 00:02:55,085 'Yellow-bellied son of Tricky Dicky's' 47 00:02:55,217 --> 00:02:57,675 'Gonna mother hubbard soft-soap me' 48 00:02:57,803 --> 00:02:59,885 'With just a pocketful of hope!' 49 00:03:00,889 --> 00:03:01,754 I'm thinking... 50 00:03:01,890 --> 00:03:03,472 'Money for dope!' 51 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,261 ...this is just a rant, you know. 52 00:03:05,519 --> 00:03:08,102 He said, "What do you think?" I said, "Yeah, very nice, yeah. 53 00:03:08,271 --> 00:03:10,308 Yeah. What's on the other side?" 54 00:03:10,732 --> 00:03:14,441 And he said, "Turn it over," and he played 'Imagine'. 55 00:03:15,612 --> 00:03:16,443 OK? 56 00:03:17,781 --> 00:03:18,771 Shall I go? 57 00:03:20,742 --> 00:03:23,575 The first time I heard the album in the studio, 58 00:03:24,204 --> 00:03:26,491 the first song I heard was 'Imagine'. 59 00:03:27,165 --> 00:03:29,031 And I just listened to it, 60 00:03:29,710 --> 00:03:31,701 and this was before the strings were put on it. 61 00:03:43,306 --> 00:03:47,140 And I put the needle on and out comes 'Imagine'. 62 00:03:47,769 --> 00:03:48,679 But, of course, it didn't have... 63 00:03:48,812 --> 00:03:50,143 There was no song title. 64 00:03:50,313 --> 00:03:51,974 I didn't know what this was about. 65 00:03:52,566 --> 00:03:56,275 And I thought, "Hm, not bad, not bad." 66 00:03:57,154 --> 00:04:00,567 Within about 30 seconds, I thought, "This is it." 67 00:04:00,699 --> 00:04:02,906 I said, "Surely that should be the A-side." 68 00:04:03,702 --> 00:04:05,158 And he very coolly said, 69 00:04:05,328 --> 00:04:08,161 "Yoko, Ray thinks 'Imagine' should be the A-side." 70 00:04:08,331 --> 00:04:10,322 She said, "Oh, I like that one, too." 71 00:04:10,500 --> 00:04:12,662 And he's like, "Well, what do you think? Is it any good?" 72 00:04:12,794 --> 00:04:14,660 I'll never forget, he said, "Is it any good?" 73 00:04:18,175 --> 00:04:21,713 I said to John, "It's a number one record, John." 74 00:04:22,512 --> 00:04:25,550 He said, "Are you sure? Are you really sure?" 75 00:04:27,350 --> 00:04:28,590 I said, "I really like that song, 76 00:04:28,727 --> 00:04:30,968 'Imagine All The People', whatever it's called." 77 00:04:31,104 --> 00:04:32,515 Cos it didn't have a title. He said, 78 00:04:32,647 --> 00:04:34,763 "Yeah, I think that's gonna be... It's called 'Imagine'. 79 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:36,686 I think it's gonna be the title of the album." 80 00:04:37,277 --> 00:04:40,269 I said, "I think people are gonna be still listening to it 81 00:04:40,405 --> 00:04:41,691 in ten years' time." 82 00:04:42,032 --> 00:04:44,023 He said, "Oh, fuck off, it's just a rock album." 83 00:04:53,543 --> 00:04:55,375 So, which way should we go? 84 00:04:55,545 --> 00:04:57,206 You're just gonna follow us now, then? 85 00:04:57,339 --> 00:04:58,454 Yeah, we'll follow you. 86 00:04:58,590 --> 00:05:00,206 I'm going over to look at the, er... 87 00:05:00,884 --> 00:05:01,669 The swans. 88 00:05:01,802 --> 00:05:03,713 The swans and whatever they are, geese. 89 00:05:08,558 --> 00:05:10,174 Oh, they've come back, have they? 90 00:05:10,310 --> 00:05:12,642 -They're coming now. -I'm going round once! 91 00:05:20,070 --> 00:05:21,652 -Dad? -I'm trying to get round here. 92 00:05:21,780 --> 00:05:22,861 'Dad? 'Yes? 93 00:05:22,989 --> 00:05:25,572 -Can I get off? -Yeah, do you want to...? 94 00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:27,407 Do you want to get off on the island? 95 00:05:43,176 --> 00:05:45,543 They wanted to be away from London, 96 00:05:45,679 --> 00:05:48,171 away from the office and all the people there. 97 00:05:48,306 --> 00:05:50,297 If you wanted to talk to him, you had to come out. 98 00:05:52,102 --> 00:05:53,638 When they came down from the Apple offices, 99 00:05:53,770 --> 00:05:54,931 they shut themselves off from that. 100 00:05:55,397 --> 00:05:57,855 And I remember them sending a memo, saying, 101 00:05:57,983 --> 00:05:59,769 "We are now operating from 102 00:05:59,901 --> 00:06:01,858 Tittenhurst Park as Bag Productions." 103 00:06:01,987 --> 00:06:04,319 They didn't want any direct contact 104 00:06:04,447 --> 00:06:06,438 with the Apple offices any more. 105 00:06:11,288 --> 00:06:13,529 When you went to Tittenhurst, it was this white place. 106 00:06:13,665 --> 00:06:15,576 This huge, huge garden. 107 00:06:15,750 --> 00:06:18,117 I mean, acres of wonderful trees and things. 108 00:06:18,253 --> 00:06:22,167 And they had donkeys. They had a lake put in, with... 109 00:06:22,299 --> 00:06:23,664 All the fish died, unfortunately, 110 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,336 but it was a good idea. 111 00:06:25,468 --> 00:06:26,879 It was this huge place. 112 00:06:29,306 --> 00:06:31,638 I remember it fondly, because... 113 00:06:31,766 --> 00:06:33,131 Dad and Yoko would do their own thing 114 00:06:33,310 --> 00:06:35,096 and I would sort of run around. 115 00:06:35,395 --> 00:06:38,012 I think it was 99 acres, Tittenhurst. 116 00:06:38,523 --> 00:06:41,185 I mean, that's an insane amount of land for... 117 00:06:41,318 --> 00:06:43,400 You know, a child can get lost in those woods! 118 00:06:45,780 --> 00:06:48,738 The first time we met with the gardener, Frank, 119 00:06:48,867 --> 00:06:51,484 he was a proper old English gentleman with, you know, 120 00:06:51,661 --> 00:06:54,619 a tweed coat and little hat, you know, 121 00:06:54,748 --> 00:06:56,489 and he's standing there in his wellingtons 122 00:06:56,666 --> 00:06:58,156 to meet them for the first time, 123 00:06:58,460 --> 00:07:02,078 and Yoko said, "We want only black or white flowers." 124 00:07:02,923 --> 00:07:06,587 And he said, "Pardon?" "Only black or white flowers." 125 00:07:06,718 --> 00:07:09,255 He said, "Well, I can certainly do white, but I'm not sure..." 126 00:07:09,387 --> 00:07:12,254 "I'm sure there's some tulips that are black," Yoko said. 127 00:07:13,016 --> 00:07:14,381 Black and white flowers! 128 00:07:16,144 --> 00:07:17,760 We ended up with different colours. 129 00:07:26,237 --> 00:07:28,069 John and Yoko spent a lot of time 130 00:07:28,198 --> 00:07:30,155 in their suite upstairs, which was huge. 131 00:07:30,283 --> 00:07:31,489 It was an enormous bedroom 132 00:07:31,660 --> 00:07:33,901 with dressing rooms off it, and they had this balcony outside 133 00:07:34,079 --> 00:07:36,036 and they spent most of their time up there. 134 00:07:36,206 --> 00:07:38,664 They would be reading letters and things like that. 135 00:07:38,792 --> 00:07:40,408 They always had plenty of books and things around. 136 00:07:40,543 --> 00:07:41,624 They'd be listening to music. 137 00:07:41,753 --> 00:07:43,209 I think they had all the music papers, 138 00:07:43,380 --> 00:07:44,666 so they would go through those. 139 00:07:44,798 --> 00:07:46,960 They liked to kind of know what was going on. 140 00:07:47,425 --> 00:07:49,712 He liked to sit in bed, playing his guitar, smoking dope 141 00:07:49,886 --> 00:07:51,001 and watching television. 142 00:07:51,888 --> 00:07:54,175 First of all, he didn't like getting up and going anywhere 143 00:07:54,307 --> 00:07:56,969 unless he really had a reason to do it, you know, 144 00:07:57,894 --> 00:08:00,682 because, remember, the world is coming in all the time at you, 145 00:08:00,855 --> 00:08:02,266 you know, if you're John. 146 00:08:02,399 --> 00:08:04,811 You have to imagine, this is a man who... 147 00:08:04,943 --> 00:08:07,731 He never sees another human face 148 00:08:07,862 --> 00:08:09,694 that's not going, like, "What can I do for you?" 149 00:08:10,156 --> 00:08:12,739 That means that nobody's ever going to tell you the truth. 150 00:08:12,909 --> 00:08:14,570 You'll never get any, 151 00:08:14,703 --> 00:08:19,197 or very rarely, get useful feedback that's, the real thing. 152 00:08:19,791 --> 00:08:22,158 And he needed a refuge from that. 153 00:08:30,510 --> 00:08:32,547 Those are the moments that we, you know, 154 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,590 enjoyed each other's company 155 00:08:34,723 --> 00:08:36,509 without thinking about it too much. 156 00:08:36,641 --> 00:08:39,850 I think if either of us thought about things too much, it was, 157 00:08:39,978 --> 00:08:44,723 you know, the anxiety or other elements would come into play. 158 00:08:45,025 --> 00:08:46,481 -OK! -Next tune. 159 00:08:46,609 --> 00:08:47,599 Next. 160 00:08:48,737 --> 00:08:49,943 What shall we do? 161 00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:53,113 They were heavily into recording 'Imagine' 162 00:08:53,241 --> 00:08:54,197 at that time. 163 00:08:54,951 --> 00:08:58,694 That's why I had a lot of time on my own. 164 00:08:59,289 --> 00:09:03,908 Because as a kid, also, I think the studio scenario 165 00:09:04,044 --> 00:09:07,958 was exciting for a minute, but then, you know, 166 00:09:08,131 --> 00:09:10,213 "You're playing that song how many times?" 167 00:09:10,842 --> 00:09:13,960 Let me sit there. Where's my... 168 00:09:20,351 --> 00:09:21,887 John wanted his own studio. 169 00:09:22,103 --> 00:09:23,639 If I'd looked back at the period, 170 00:09:23,813 --> 00:09:25,724 it was probably that John wanted 171 00:09:25,857 --> 00:09:27,848 to get out of town, he wanted the release, 172 00:09:27,984 --> 00:09:30,521 somewhere that he could work peacefully and relax. 173 00:09:31,071 --> 00:09:32,482 After some discussion, 174 00:09:32,655 --> 00:09:34,817 John decided that the annexe would be the best place 175 00:09:34,991 --> 00:09:37,358 for the studio because it was close to the kitchen, 176 00:09:37,577 --> 00:09:40,660 for all the usual teas and snacks and stuff, 177 00:09:40,830 --> 00:09:42,195 and sufficiently away from the house 178 00:09:42,332 --> 00:09:45,324 that it didn't impact on the domestic scene. 179 00:09:47,045 --> 00:09:48,160 He was very impatient, 180 00:09:48,296 --> 00:09:49,661 cos it takes time to build these things. 181 00:09:49,798 --> 00:09:52,381 All those connections have to be soldered. 182 00:09:52,509 --> 00:09:54,841 You have to test things, "Maybe we should change the carpet?" 183 00:09:55,011 --> 00:09:56,843 You know, you go through this process of... 184 00:09:56,971 --> 00:09:59,838 It's like tuning an instrument, making a good studio. 185 00:10:01,267 --> 00:10:03,429 John was then anxious to start recording, 186 00:10:03,561 --> 00:10:06,519 so I did use John's enthusiasm to get into the studio, 187 00:10:06,689 --> 00:10:08,555 and say, "Well, if you'd like to go in the studio 188 00:10:08,691 --> 00:10:10,523 and play the piano or practise, 189 00:10:10,693 --> 00:10:12,775 I'd love to have some sound coming in 190 00:10:12,904 --> 00:10:14,110 to see if it all works." 191 00:10:14,239 --> 00:10:15,354 So we actually used John 192 00:10:15,490 --> 00:10:18,027 as part of the work to set the studio up. 193 00:10:18,451 --> 00:10:20,442 John was the guinea pig, that's right. 194 00:10:22,539 --> 00:10:24,701 Good evening ladies and gentlemen. 195 00:10:24,833 --> 00:10:27,416 This evening we have the Plastic Ono Band, 196 00:10:27,544 --> 00:10:30,536 who's gonna play for you a little rock and roll. 197 00:10:31,381 --> 00:10:32,542 Where's Phillip? 198 00:10:33,716 --> 00:10:34,706 We don't know. 199 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,376 Let's see how George does. 200 00:10:47,105 --> 00:10:50,314 So I'm staying with Eric and, um... 201 00:10:50,483 --> 00:10:54,727 I get up before Eric because he slept a lot later than I did. 202 00:10:55,071 --> 00:10:59,690 One morning, the phone rang for a long time and, finally, 203 00:10:59,826 --> 00:11:02,909 I just picked it up and it was Spector. 204 00:11:03,705 --> 00:11:05,446 He said he wanted me to wake up Eric 205 00:11:05,582 --> 00:11:07,448 and I said, "Listen, I can't wake up Eric." 206 00:11:07,584 --> 00:11:10,167 "I don't want to go into his bedroom and wake him up." 207 00:11:11,379 --> 00:11:12,585 He said, "OK, well, 208 00:11:12,714 --> 00:11:14,580 we wanted him to come out and play," 209 00:11:14,716 --> 00:11:16,548 and he said, "How about you? 210 00:11:16,676 --> 00:11:18,007 You want to come and play with John?" 211 00:11:18,136 --> 00:11:20,252 And I said, "Yeah, absolutely!" 212 00:11:29,105 --> 00:11:31,096 I got a job as a freelancer at Sounds, 213 00:11:31,232 --> 00:11:32,768 which was one of the music papers. 214 00:11:33,151 --> 00:11:35,609 And they said, "You've got to go to John Lennon's house tomorrow 215 00:11:35,737 --> 00:11:37,978 to photograph him recording a new album." 216 00:11:38,114 --> 00:11:40,071 And I thought it was a joke at first. 217 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:41,656 I go in, and he hadn't got up yet. 218 00:11:41,784 --> 00:11:43,866 This was about five o'clock in the afternoon. 219 00:11:44,204 --> 00:11:47,287 So I hung around for half an hour, and then they suddenly 220 00:11:47,957 --> 00:11:49,447 seemed to appear out of nowhere. 221 00:11:49,626 --> 00:11:51,333 The two of them just were 'phttt' in the room, 222 00:11:52,003 --> 00:11:53,619 looking like they'd just got out of bed. 223 00:11:54,214 --> 00:11:56,581 "Woke up, got out of bed, dragged a comb across my head " 224 00:11:56,716 --> 00:11:58,502 No, he hadn't even dragged a comb across his head. 225 00:11:58,801 --> 00:12:00,712 He looked really scruffy, actually. 226 00:12:01,179 --> 00:12:03,295 They actually have eggs on toast, you see. 227 00:12:03,473 --> 00:12:06,010 He likes tinned tomatoes, 'cause they don't like real ones. 228 00:12:06,476 --> 00:12:08,387 I didn't know how long I had them for, 229 00:12:08,519 --> 00:12:11,386 ten minutes or, as it turned out, six or seven hours. 230 00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:13,305 So I said, "Can I start taking pictures?" 231 00:12:13,483 --> 00:12:14,644 And he said, "Of course, go for it," you know? 232 00:12:25,453 --> 00:12:26,659 So, there was a bunch of people there. 233 00:12:26,829 --> 00:12:28,570 There were people arriving. 234 00:12:28,706 --> 00:12:31,698 There was Klaus Voormann, the bass player. 235 00:12:31,834 --> 00:12:33,700 There was Nicky Hopkins. 236 00:12:34,504 --> 00:12:37,667 There were some other people who I didn't recognise at the time. 237 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,628 Then George Harrison showed up, and I was, "Oh, my God." 238 00:12:41,177 --> 00:12:44,010 We all went every day for, you know, 239 00:12:44,180 --> 00:12:46,842 for the whole period of making 'Imagine'. 240 00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:49,842 It was a daily trip in the car in the morning. 241 00:12:49,978 --> 00:12:53,061 We'd get there, have a bit of breakfast and coffee 242 00:12:53,189 --> 00:12:54,679 and then get into it. 243 00:12:55,191 --> 00:12:56,852 I was living at Friar Park. 244 00:12:57,026 --> 00:12:59,358 I'd got my little cottage there and it was great. 245 00:12:59,529 --> 00:13:03,693 George had those great cars and it was nice to drive together. 246 00:13:03,825 --> 00:13:05,736 And I had this little Mini, 247 00:13:06,244 --> 00:13:08,702 which was all painted in tantra art, 248 00:13:08,871 --> 00:13:10,862 George gave it to me. 249 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:12,656 But when we drove together, 250 00:13:12,792 --> 00:13:16,001 he had, well, I don't know, some Mercedes or something. 251 00:13:16,546 --> 00:13:21,211 So I said, "It's great," and it was fun, and he loved driving. 252 00:13:26,222 --> 00:13:27,633 Phil Spector arrived. 253 00:13:27,765 --> 00:13:30,723 He was dressed in a three-piece suit and a collar and tie 254 00:13:30,852 --> 00:13:33,139 in the middle of summer in England in a rock session, 255 00:13:33,521 --> 00:13:34,727 and shades. 256 00:13:35,398 --> 00:13:38,106 And he was a very heavy presence. 257 00:13:38,276 --> 00:13:40,392 And he just looked menacing. 258 00:13:42,864 --> 00:13:44,275 At a certain point, 259 00:13:44,407 --> 00:13:46,739 Phil stood up and sort of whispered something like, 260 00:13:46,909 --> 00:13:49,617 "I think we should get started now," and John shot up, 261 00:13:50,246 --> 00:13:52,908 and said, "Right, everybody, Phil wants us in the studio." 262 00:13:53,041 --> 00:13:56,079 And he was taking mugs out of people's hands, you know. 263 00:13:56,252 --> 00:13:58,584 Shall we listen to the tape or shall we just get on? 264 00:13:58,713 --> 00:14:01,671 -Let's go and do them. -Let's go and do them, OK. 265 00:14:01,799 --> 00:14:04,166 Let's go. George, are you coming? Come on, gang. 266 00:14:04,927 --> 00:14:06,668 Come on now, let's go. 267 00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:13,800 How? It's A minor. 268 00:14:13,936 --> 00:14:16,177 It's the same chord, A minor seventh, is it? 269 00:14:17,815 --> 00:14:18,771 F- 270 00:14:19,609 --> 00:14:21,600 It stays on F a bit long, I think. 271 00:14:24,197 --> 00:14:25,278 E7. 272 00:14:28,451 --> 00:14:29,782 That's all it is. 273 00:14:40,004 --> 00:14:41,415 Is that a major chord? 274 00:14:42,215 --> 00:14:43,831 Yeah, D7, that is. 275 00:14:50,556 --> 00:14:53,344 Yeah. Let's try and open the window up a bit. 276 00:14:53,476 --> 00:14:56,764 John comes in the studio, 277 00:14:56,896 --> 00:15:00,605 plays a song and he thinks everybody knows it already. 278 00:15:00,775 --> 00:15:04,018 That's typical for John, that he's very impatient. 279 00:15:04,153 --> 00:15:06,019 No, D7, maybe. 280 00:15:07,031 --> 00:15:08,942 He thinks for himself. 281 00:15:09,075 --> 00:15:11,942 But you see, we played in the studio a few times, 282 00:15:12,078 --> 00:15:15,070 then suddenly everybody finds his way, you know? 283 00:15:24,715 --> 00:15:26,752 At first, I couldn't quite hear the lyrics, 284 00:15:26,884 --> 00:15:29,000 because they were going through the mic into the control room, 285 00:15:29,178 --> 00:15:30,634 and the first line was, 286 00:15:30,763 --> 00:15:32,925 "So Sgt. Pepper took you by surprise." 287 00:15:40,773 --> 00:15:43,014 And I thought, "Oh, it's a song about the fans, " 288 00:15:43,401 --> 00:15:45,688 because 'Sgt. Pepper' took me by surprise. 289 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:50,696 And then there was the line, 290 00:15:50,867 --> 00:15:52,574 "The only good thing you did was yesterday". 291 00:16:01,502 --> 00:16:02,617 "And since you've been gone, 292 00:16:02,753 --> 00:16:03,914 it's been just another day". 293 00:16:11,429 --> 00:16:13,045 And I thought, "Hang on a minute. 294 00:16:13,222 --> 00:16:15,509 They're two Paul McCartney song titles." 295 00:16:15,808 --> 00:16:17,719 'Those freaks was right' 296 00:16:17,894 --> 00:16:23,515 'When they said you was dead' 297 00:16:25,735 --> 00:16:27,191 It became clear that 298 00:16:27,361 --> 00:16:29,318 there was a spa! between John and Paul 299 00:16:29,447 --> 00:16:32,064 which /, as a member of the public, was not aware of. 300 00:16:32,533 --> 00:16:35,241 I used my resentment against Paul, 301 00:16:35,369 --> 00:16:38,327 that I have as a kind of sibling rivalry resentment, 302 00:16:38,456 --> 00:16:39,787 to create a song. 303 00:16:40,166 --> 00:16:43,033 And I was answering a few little messages 304 00:16:43,169 --> 00:16:45,376 that Paul sent to me on 'Ram', you see? 305 00:16:45,505 --> 00:16:47,587 Only I publish my lyrics, you see? 306 00:16:47,715 --> 00:16:49,456 He doesn't, so you have to listen dead hard. 307 00:16:49,592 --> 00:16:51,959 -Artistically and musically... -It's a good song. 308 00:16:52,094 --> 00:16:54,085 ...if you listen to it, it's a beautiful song. 309 00:16:55,765 --> 00:16:59,759 'You live with straights who told you' 310 00:16:59,936 --> 00:17:01,267 Paul personally doesn't feel 311 00:17:01,395 --> 00:17:02,806 as though I insulted him or anything, 312 00:17:02,939 --> 00:17:04,600 cos I had dinner with him last week. 313 00:17:04,774 --> 00:17:06,811 So it's not about Paul, it's about me. 314 00:17:07,944 --> 00:17:12,984 'Jump when your momma tell you anything' 315 00:17:21,499 --> 00:17:22,830 Oh. What? What? 316 00:17:26,504 --> 00:17:28,996 The nice thing about the recording sessions 317 00:17:29,131 --> 00:17:32,169 in those days was that you play all at the same time. 318 00:17:32,301 --> 00:17:33,166 Hit it! 319 00:17:37,515 --> 00:17:40,382 And that's so important. It's so much fun. 320 00:17:40,518 --> 00:17:42,475 And for John, it was fun, too. 321 00:17:42,645 --> 00:17:46,309 Even though he was focused on a song and we tuned into it, 322 00:17:46,482 --> 00:17:49,349 still, it was a fun, fun situation. 323 00:18:06,002 --> 00:18:08,334 He had the whole of 'Imagine' in his head. 324 00:18:09,338 --> 00:18:10,294 He had the whole thing. 325 00:18:10,756 --> 00:18:12,087 George, on your break, 326 00:18:12,675 --> 00:18:14,837 will you, just for the first bit, play the tune? 327 00:18:15,011 --> 00:18:16,877 -Yeah. How does that go? -Well, just like... 328 00:18:20,266 --> 00:18:24,635 Even the one note will do. Dah-dah-dah-dah. 329 00:18:24,812 --> 00:18:26,143 That whole album, 330 00:18:26,272 --> 00:18:28,855 he had all the songs. They weren't written down. 331 00:18:29,317 --> 00:18:31,149 Or there may have been parts written down. 332 00:18:31,277 --> 00:18:33,393 But he just started. 333 00:18:44,749 --> 00:18:49,459 He would sing the song, and you would hear him. 334 00:18:49,587 --> 00:18:51,578 Maybe if you look in his eyes, 335 00:18:51,714 --> 00:18:54,376 or whatever, and we see what he sings. 336 00:18:57,219 --> 00:19:01,258 $0 you got a feeling of the song just by him playing it, 337 00:19:01,390 --> 00:19:03,131 and you heard the words. 338 00:19:03,267 --> 00:19:04,883 Of course you heard the words, you know. 339 00:19:05,061 --> 00:19:06,927 I mean, he's not just saying anything. 340 00:19:13,235 --> 00:19:16,944 Then we got the lyrics, so we could 341 00:19:17,156 --> 00:19:20,615 be even more aware of what he's saying. 342 00:19:24,872 --> 00:19:29,207 He would give me, and everybody involved, the lyrics 343 00:19:29,335 --> 00:19:33,750 and make you study the lyrics before each and every song. 344 00:19:33,923 --> 00:19:37,086 And then we'd take it from there. 345 00:19:37,218 --> 00:19:39,255 Well, try that one then. 346 00:19:39,428 --> 00:19:42,216 Yeah, OK. The metal, it's more, um... 347 00:19:42,348 --> 00:19:44,931 It's more a jangly sound. 348 00:19:47,103 --> 00:19:48,468 See, these are very... 349 00:19:57,488 --> 00:19:58,444 Yeah, right, right. 350 00:19:58,614 --> 00:20:00,776 -So try them both, then. OK. -It's Elizabethan. 351 00:20:00,950 --> 00:20:03,112 Two, three, four. 352 00:20:48,122 --> 00:20:50,489 If somebody comes up with a great lick 353 00:20:50,624 --> 00:20:55,915 or a great idea of a riff or a rhythm, then he would go for it. 354 00:20:57,047 --> 00:21:00,290 That has a... Elizabethan feeling, you know? 355 00:21:00,426 --> 00:21:02,793 -Has what? -Has a Elizabethan feeling. 356 00:21:02,928 --> 00:21:04,168 You know, that one? 357 00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:07,262 -So which one is better? -That's better. 358 00:21:09,393 --> 00:21:12,101 You know, he'd adapt to all situations. 359 00:21:12,229 --> 00:21:14,846 He was very good at impromptu decisions 360 00:21:14,982 --> 00:21:16,564 in his head that just worked. 361 00:22:04,406 --> 00:22:07,899 I think we shouldn't ring off, ring off when George does his... 362 00:22:10,704 --> 00:22:12,741 -And stop the bass? -Yeah. 363 00:22:12,873 --> 00:22:14,455 So we'll ring off then. We'll go... 364 00:22:14,583 --> 00:22:16,073 —Ring off? Stop... —Ring Off! 365 00:22:16,252 --> 00:22:17,037 Ring off. 366 00:22:18,587 --> 00:22:21,875 My first impression of Yoko was, um... 367 00:22:22,091 --> 00:22:23,957 Well, the first impression was she was very quiet. 368 00:22:24,093 --> 00:22:25,549 I got her in one of my photographs, 369 00:22:25,678 --> 00:22:27,669 where John is singing into the mic 370 00:22:27,805 --> 00:22:30,137 with his white Epiphone 371 00:22:30,266 --> 00:22:31,756 and she's actually sitting on the floor 372 00:22:31,934 --> 00:22:33,345 writing out the lyrics. 373 00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:36,352 I really got', "This is a real team effort." 374 00:22:36,647 --> 00:22:40,106 I saw Yoko, and I saw how the two worked together 375 00:22:40,276 --> 00:22:41,357 and how it happened. 376 00:22:41,527 --> 00:22:47,273 How excited Yoko can be and how they got on so well. 377 00:22:47,408 --> 00:22:49,524 -You see, in Japanese there's... -" / want you to... " 378 00:22:52,913 --> 00:22:54,574 -That's it. -That's too long, you see. 379 00:22:54,707 --> 00:22:55,617 I only want one line. 380 00:22:55,791 --> 00:22:57,782 I know, but, you see, in Japanese... 381 00:22:57,918 --> 00:22:59,909 "I know that you've heard it before" 382 00:23:00,045 --> 00:23:01,126 is wrong in Japanese, 383 00:23:01,297 --> 00:23:02,787 because in Japan they haven't... 384 00:23:02,965 --> 00:23:05,798 Yes, they have. Everybody in the world says that. 385 00:23:05,968 --> 00:23:08,130 The thing is, you can't say it in one line. 386 00:23:08,304 --> 00:23:10,136 So why can't you say... 387 00:23:10,264 --> 00:23:12,631 -It's a very strong message. -Well, I'll try it. 388 00:23:15,561 --> 00:23:17,347 There was something absolutely lovely about her, 389 00:23:17,813 --> 00:23:19,099 which I'm not sure I can put my finger on, 390 00:23:19,231 --> 00:23:20,562 but she was completely different 391 00:23:20,858 --> 00:23:22,690 to the propaganda we'd all been led to believe 392 00:23:22,818 --> 00:23:26,527 that she was this devil woman, a foreigner to boot, 393 00:23:26,655 --> 00:23:28,362 who broke up The Beatles. 394 00:23:28,490 --> 00:23:30,026 Miss Yoko Ono. 395 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,067 What I'm trying to do is to present 396 00:23:33,203 --> 00:23:35,410 an unfinished situation, 397 00:23:35,539 --> 00:23:39,157 where people can finish it themselves in their own minds. 398 00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:45,291 She'd come along from nowhere. Just from nowhere. 399 00:23:45,507 --> 00:23:47,544 We had no idea about the background 400 00:23:47,676 --> 00:23:48,757 of anything in New York, 401 00:23:48,969 --> 00:23:51,131 so she was really an interesting person. 402 00:23:51,263 --> 00:23:52,924 What was the first time, Yoko, 403 00:23:53,057 --> 00:23:55,424 that you made something like one of these? 404 00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:58,768 What was the very first time you really invented something? 405 00:23:58,896 --> 00:24:01,513 When I was about four years old, 406 00:24:01,649 --> 00:24:04,016 when I was in Japan, 407 00:24:04,193 --> 00:24:08,733 and one day, I had a great idea, you know, 408 00:24:08,906 --> 00:24:10,863 that probably the, uh... 409 00:24:11,533 --> 00:24:14,525 if we cut all the seeds in the world in half... 410 00:24:14,703 --> 00:24:15,534 All the seas? 411 00:24:15,704 --> 00:24:19,242 Seeds, you know, different kinds of seeds, and glue it together, 412 00:24:19,375 --> 00:24:22,868 different seeds, and plant them, then the whole world would... 413 00:24:23,003 --> 00:24:25,210 -Oh, "seeds"? -Seeds, you know. 414 00:24:25,339 --> 00:24:27,546 And then it would be, sort of like, a whole world, 415 00:24:27,675 --> 00:24:30,463 a completely different world, all mixed of... 416 00:24:30,594 --> 00:24:33,507 you know, pine trees with apples, hanging around, 417 00:24:33,639 --> 00:24:36,506 things like that and I thought it would be beautiful. 418 00:24:43,607 --> 00:24:46,725 The art world was extremely straight, really, in those days. 419 00:24:46,902 --> 00:24:48,734 It was more of a sort of slick operation. 420 00:24:48,862 --> 00:24:50,398 You know, proper art galleries. 421 00:24:50,572 --> 00:24:53,485 Whereas, ours was completely handmade. 422 00:24:53,617 --> 00:24:54,573 Ours was the only place 423 00:24:54,702 --> 00:24:56,693 that Yoko could possibly show, really. 424 00:24:56,829 --> 00:25:00,663 Because I liked Yoko. I liked the sort of daffy ideas. 425 00:25:00,791 --> 00:25:03,123 The whole thing, it just appealed to me. 426 00:25:03,419 --> 00:25:06,628 There was a piece called, uh, 'Ceiling Painting'. 427 00:25:06,755 --> 00:25:07,745 Yeah. 428 00:25:07,881 --> 00:25:10,589 And there's a painting on the ceiling, you see. 429 00:25:10,718 --> 00:25:15,303 And my idea was for people to climb up a long, long ladder, 430 00:25:15,431 --> 00:25:18,640 just go on climbing up like this, and then, finally, 431 00:25:18,767 --> 00:25:21,634 reaching the ceiling and you look at the painting 432 00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:23,226 and it says "Yes", you know. 433 00:25:23,355 --> 00:25:24,265 It said "Yes". 434 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,056 It made my decision to go and see the rest of the show. 435 00:25:26,191 --> 00:25:28,432 If it had said "No" or, you know, "Uh-huh", 436 00:25:28,569 --> 00:25:30,185 I would have left the gallery then! 437 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,062 But because it was positive, it said "Yes," I thought, "OK." 438 00:25:33,198 --> 00:25:35,064 It's the first show I've been to that said something, 439 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,611 you know, warm to me. 440 00:25:36,785 --> 00:25:38,150 So then I decided to see the rest of the show 441 00:25:38,287 --> 00:25:39,197 and that's when we met. 442 00:25:39,413 --> 00:25:42,747 What John saw in Yoko's work, whether it was, you know, 443 00:25:42,875 --> 00:25:45,333 the ladder piece with the word "Yes" on it and that... 444 00:25:45,461 --> 00:25:49,420 ...the notion of that kind of openness to the world. 445 00:25:54,970 --> 00:25:58,088 You know, just "Yes", that was... 446 00:25:58,223 --> 00:26:01,306 that was the essential quality of living, was "Yes". 447 00:26:03,020 --> 00:26:05,978 What he saw was a reflection of himself. 448 00:26:07,232 --> 00:26:11,066 He was an artist, but what he'd say about Yoko is, 449 00:26:11,653 --> 00:26:14,645 everything about Yoko is upside-down 450 00:26:14,823 --> 00:26:16,439 from what we understand. 451 00:26:16,825 --> 00:26:18,987 Whatever you hear, whatever she says, 452 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,235 you've got to look at the other side, always. 453 00:26:21,413 --> 00:26:24,531 He got it. I mean, he... Yoko touched him. 454 00:26:24,958 --> 00:26:27,040 You know, it is as though he was... 455 00:26:27,753 --> 00:26:29,835 He had something missing that he was looking for. 456 00:26:30,005 --> 00:26:31,211 He had an emptiness. 457 00:26:39,515 --> 00:26:41,677 I met him when they did 458 00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:45,969 the "Strawberry Fields Forever" video and stuff. 459 00:26:46,355 --> 00:26:49,518 He was really, really in bad shape. 460 00:26:49,650 --> 00:26:53,393 I was walking with him in the garden and, er... 461 00:26:54,696 --> 00:26:56,528 he sat there, 462 00:26:56,949 --> 00:27:01,034 kind of gazing at this bunch of... 463 00:27:01,203 --> 00:27:02,364 at this bush. 464 00:27:02,996 --> 00:27:06,739 And he ripped off all the leaves, like that. 465 00:27:06,917 --> 00:27:09,784 I said, "Look, John, that bush can't help it. 466 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,252 You don't have to hurt the bush, you know." 467 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,958 And, "Klaus, I'm so unhappy." 468 00:27:16,135 --> 00:27:17,250 He was really... 469 00:27:18,095 --> 00:27:19,711 you know, kind of letting go 470 00:27:20,430 --> 00:27:22,762 and he started crying, you know. 471 00:27:30,899 --> 00:27:32,185 When it really did hit, 472 00:27:32,317 --> 00:27:34,558 when The Beatles really did take off, I mean... 473 00:27:35,988 --> 00:27:37,478 there was no breathing room. 474 00:27:37,656 --> 00:27:39,567 There was no choice in... 475 00:27:40,033 --> 00:27:43,151 in life choices of what you could and couldn't do. 476 00:27:45,247 --> 00:27:47,989 I think the whole experience was fun to start with, but then, 477 00:27:48,125 --> 00:27:52,289 once you realised that, "Well, this is my life, “ um, 478 00:27:52,421 --> 00:27:56,335 and, in fact, "It's not actually my life, 479 00:27:56,466 --> 00:28:00,334 it's their life and who am I any more within this?" 480 00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:16,518 And that's when Yoko came, that it changed 100%. 481 00:28:17,154 --> 00:28:20,192 She gave him everything he needed 482 00:28:20,324 --> 00:28:22,110 and he changed completely. 483 00:28:22,242 --> 00:28:25,075 A-one, two, a-one, two, three, four! 484 00:28:36,131 --> 00:28:38,122 Stop asking us, "Do you think it's going to work?" 485 00:28:38,258 --> 00:28:39,589 You know, do something yourself. 486 00:28:48,936 --> 00:28:52,145 The only way we can change it is by changing it non-violently. 487 00:28:52,272 --> 00:28:55,014 Because they've done the violent kick for millions of years. 488 00:28:55,150 --> 00:28:57,391 They're on all the time selling their war 489 00:28:57,527 --> 00:28:58,733 and selling their products. 490 00:28:58,862 --> 00:29:00,273 We must do the same. 491 00:29:00,405 --> 00:29:02,737 No matter how beautiful a poem is, 492 00:29:02,866 --> 00:29:04,527 if you can't share it with people, 493 00:29:04,660 --> 00:29:06,492 if you can't reach people, then it's crap. 494 00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:09,783 The only way to change the world is change their minds. 495 00:29:09,915 --> 00:29:11,656 We can do that, we can still do that. 496 00:29:11,792 --> 00:29:13,282 This bed is a platform. 497 00:29:15,128 --> 00:29:16,243 Go away! 498 00:29:42,406 --> 00:29:45,524 Did Yoko's presence, John, did it lead to tension in the group? 499 00:29:45,659 --> 00:29:47,741 -Was it part of the break-up? -The tension was already there, 500 00:29:47,869 --> 00:29:48,779 you see. 501 00:29:48,912 --> 00:29:50,323 I said if we talk about The Beatles, 502 00:29:50,455 --> 00:29:51,536 I want you in the bag. 503 00:29:51,707 --> 00:29:52,617 Are you going to do that? 504 00:29:52,749 --> 00:29:54,080 What do you want me in the bag for, John? 505 00:29:54,209 --> 00:29:57,247 -Alright, fine. -He's a sport! 506 00:29:57,379 --> 00:30:00,588 In the interest of communication, John. 507 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,836 All we're saying is, give peace a chance. 508 00:30:07,514 --> 00:30:09,505 If the least we can do is give somebody a laugh, 509 00:30:09,641 --> 00:30:11,177 we're willing to be the world's clowns. 510 00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:13,802 Well, they thought she was a fruit-and-nut case, 511 00:30:13,937 --> 00:30:19,182 and they thought that John had lost his mind by being with her. 512 00:30:19,318 --> 00:30:21,559 I was dismayed and appalled 513 00:30:21,737 --> 00:30:23,944 by what you did, sending back the MBE. 514 00:30:24,072 --> 00:30:29,818 You used two huge, catastrophic events of unspeakable horror 515 00:30:29,953 --> 00:30:33,116 as a convenient reason, when you might just as well have said, 516 00:30:33,248 --> 00:30:35,785 "I got up and had a sinus headache this morning." 517 00:30:35,917 --> 00:30:37,248 A convenient reason for what? 518 00:30:37,377 --> 00:30:38,788 For sending back the MBE. 519 00:30:43,884 --> 00:30:45,124 This is my first day at work 520 00:30:45,260 --> 00:30:47,467 and the first thing I had to do in the Apple offices 521 00:30:47,596 --> 00:30:50,679 was type this letter on a really ropey old typewriter. 522 00:30:50,807 --> 00:30:54,141 And it said, "Your Majesty, I'm returning this MBE 523 00:30:54,269 --> 00:30:56,055 in protest against Britain's involvement 524 00:30:56,188 --> 00:30:57,804 in this Nigeria-Biafra thing, 525 00:30:57,939 --> 00:31:00,146 against our support of America in Vietnam 526 00:31:00,609 --> 00:31:02,691 and against 'Cold Turkey' slipping down the charts. 527 00:31:03,362 --> 00:31:05,603 With love, John Lennon of Bag." 528 00:31:05,864 --> 00:31:07,901 Then he rang me immediately at the Evening Standard 529 00:31:08,033 --> 00:31:09,114 and said what he'd done. 530 00:31:09,242 --> 00:31:11,734 And I said, "God Almighty, done what?" 531 00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:14,237 I think I said at the time, "Well, are you sure 532 00:31:14,373 --> 00:31:16,910 that mentioning 'Cold Turkey' and the war in Biafra...? 533 00:31:17,042 --> 00:31:18,874 You know, they don't sort of mix well." 534 00:31:19,086 --> 00:31:19,951 I thought, "You're crackers." 535 00:31:20,087 --> 00:31:21,498 If I'm going to get on the front page, 536 00:31:21,630 --> 00:31:23,997 I might as well get on the front page with the word "peace". 537 00:31:24,132 --> 00:31:25,918 But you've made yourself ridiculous! 538 00:31:26,051 --> 00:31:27,792 The medal has nothing to do with it. 539 00:31:27,969 --> 00:31:29,175 -No, exactly! -So? 540 00:31:29,304 --> 00:31:30,635 This is why you've got all the publicity. 541 00:31:30,764 --> 00:31:32,755 But without the medal there would have been no publicity. 542 00:31:32,891 --> 00:31:34,381 I would have had to think of something else 543 00:31:34,518 --> 00:31:36,350 to interest our brothers of the press. 544 00:31:36,478 --> 00:31:38,845 And while they're bothering about how long my hair is 545 00:31:38,980 --> 00:31:40,311 and the irrelevancy of 'Cold Turkey' 546 00:31:40,482 --> 00:31:42,064 and "how dare you insult the Queen" 547 00:31:42,192 --> 00:31:44,058 and "your auntie was upset by handing it back", 548 00:31:44,194 --> 00:31:45,935 -the main purpose... -That's a load of garbage! 549 00:31:46,071 --> 00:31:49,484 OK, that's leaving the door open as far as we're concerned. 550 00:32:32,742 --> 00:32:37,407 I had this idea about making a band that... 551 00:32:37,539 --> 00:32:42,875 Nobody's really involved in it, except the people in the band 552 00:32:43,003 --> 00:32:45,244 are just plastic boxes like this. 553 00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:56,464 I just remember playing on that show and then, 554 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,012 I was going, "Where did Yoko go?" 555 00:32:59,144 --> 00:33:03,684 And started looking around, there was a bag on the floor 556 00:33:03,815 --> 00:33:08,560 with Yoko in it with a microphone lead in there. 557 00:33:08,695 --> 00:33:12,404 And I was going, "Where's that sound coming from?" 558 00:33:13,241 --> 00:33:14,902 But it was kind of cool. 559 00:33:15,035 --> 00:33:18,073 It was their own way of expression at that time. 560 00:33:22,959 --> 00:33:27,328 When we were doing the Toronto thing, she was suddenly coming 561 00:33:27,464 --> 00:33:29,796 out of her bag and started screaming and doing things. 562 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,087 And the public couldn't do anything with it, you know. 563 00:33:36,223 --> 00:33:39,306 You could be happy they don't throw tomatoes or something. 564 00:33:42,896 --> 00:33:46,105 The fact, of course, that she was a foreigner 565 00:33:46,233 --> 00:33:49,271 was used nonstop. 566 00:33:49,736 --> 00:33:53,400 I remember being shocked even before I knew John and Yoko, 567 00:33:53,532 --> 00:33:58,277 by the nastiness of some of the attacks on her. 568 00:33:58,578 --> 00:33:59,488 False. 569 00:34:00,580 --> 00:34:01,365 Vicious. 570 00:34:02,582 --> 00:34:03,413 Racist. 571 00:34:31,278 --> 00:34:33,144 You have to understand The Beatles and the relationship 572 00:34:33,321 --> 00:34:35,653 with the English people, the British people. 573 00:34:35,782 --> 00:34:36,772 They were ours. 574 00:34:36,908 --> 00:34:39,320 The entire country was in love with them. 575 00:34:39,619 --> 00:34:40,575 I can't tell you, 576 00:34:40,704 --> 00:34:42,786 it was like, there was the Beatles and the Queen 577 00:34:42,914 --> 00:34:43,870 and that was it, you know. 578 00:34:44,207 --> 00:34:48,166 And then, suddenly, along comes this strange-looking woman, 579 00:34:48,295 --> 00:34:51,378 you know, with all the hair, and her hair fell down 580 00:34:51,506 --> 00:34:54,168 so you just sort of see a little bit of her face. 581 00:34:54,342 --> 00:34:56,629 Mysterious, in black all the time. 582 00:34:56,761 --> 00:34:59,503 And this woman is stealing our John, 583 00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:02,006 our John, our Beatle, away. 584 00:35:12,027 --> 00:35:13,267 That's got to be a tough call, 585 00:35:13,403 --> 00:35:14,814 having all that anger thrown at you. 586 00:35:14,946 --> 00:35:18,530 Because, one minute you're loved by the world and then, 587 00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:20,907 you know, despised by many. 588 00:35:23,371 --> 00:35:28,491 Having to defend your life on pretty much every level 589 00:35:28,627 --> 00:35:31,210 is a pretty hard thing to have to deal with 590 00:35:31,338 --> 00:35:33,500 after what you've just been through. 591 00:35:33,632 --> 00:35:36,750 I mean, that's a complete 180 on every level. 592 00:35:41,389 --> 00:35:43,050 I knew he wanted to get away from it. 593 00:35:43,183 --> 00:35:46,141 It was as though he was trapped by being a Beatle. 594 00:35:46,394 --> 00:35:48,226 He really just wanted to end it. 595 00:35:48,897 --> 00:35:50,888 He wanted to be an artist. 596 00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:54,392 He wanted to be an artist, he wanted to be John, you know, 597 00:35:54,527 --> 00:35:57,565 and it says in the song, "I was," you know... 598 00:35:57,697 --> 00:36:00,064 "And now I'm just John," you know. 599 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,908 "So, my friends, you'll have to carry on," you know. 600 00:36:34,150 --> 00:36:35,766 I like being young, you see. 601 00:36:38,238 --> 00:36:41,071 I didn't know you were in drag all the time. 602 00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:43,236 -He is in drag. -You're just pretending. 603 00:36:44,828 --> 00:36:46,239 -He's a big pretender. -Oh, shit. 604 00:36:46,371 --> 00:36:49,079 -Come on. -Just watch out now. 605 00:36:49,207 --> 00:36:52,416 A pretender. That's terrific. 606 00:36:52,544 --> 00:36:55,753 Oh, wow. I got it, I got the message. 607 00:36:59,050 --> 00:37:03,419 Now, you got your real pretender thing going on. 608 00:37:03,555 --> 00:37:05,341 Oh, I got it. I got you. 609 00:37:05,473 --> 00:37:07,589 John---... 610 00:37:07,726 --> 00:37:09,057 Sorry. 611 00:37:09,185 --> 00:37:13,019 This is for love I'm doing this. You understand? And for art. 612 00:37:13,148 --> 00:37:14,980 -He just wanted to strip. -The sake of art. 613 00:37:15,150 --> 00:37:16,732 I didn't want to strip. 614 00:37:27,287 --> 00:37:29,654 Yeah, well, tell us if you need any spaces. 615 00:37:34,919 --> 00:37:37,832 Almost everything Yoko did 616 00:37:38,006 --> 00:37:40,668 was to try to get the audience 617 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,542 or the observer to take part. 618 00:37:43,678 --> 00:37:47,842 And to use their own minds and to awaken things in their minds 619 00:37:48,016 --> 00:37:50,849 and this is a perfect example of it. 620 00:37:51,019 --> 00:37:54,011 It is wonderful to have you here with us today 621 00:37:54,189 --> 00:37:56,726 at the 'Grapefruit' signing session. 622 00:37:56,858 --> 00:37:58,940 We have Miss Self ridge and Mr Self ridge 623 00:37:59,068 --> 00:38:00,604 and all the little Self ridges. 624 00:38:02,113 --> 00:38:03,103 Yeah? 625 00:38:03,531 --> 00:38:04,692 'Cloud Piece'. 626 00:38:05,366 --> 00:38:06,731 "Imagine the clouds dripping." 627 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,902 "Dig a hole in your garden to put them in." 628 00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:12,780 "1963, spring." 629 00:38:14,793 --> 00:38:16,329 It is very funny. 630 00:38:16,795 --> 00:38:18,786 Cos the clouds aren't going to go in the hole in the garden. 631 00:38:18,922 --> 00:38:22,005 It's just a nice way of saying let your imagination run. 632 00:38:22,133 --> 00:38:23,419 That's what it means to me. 633 00:38:23,593 --> 00:38:26,005 This is classic Yoko. 634 00:38:26,721 --> 00:38:29,053 It starts with the word "imagine". 635 00:38:30,058 --> 00:38:32,049 A bit of existential nonsense. 636 00:38:34,145 --> 00:38:35,681 I'm not impressed. 637 00:38:36,147 --> 00:38:39,230 The 'clouds dripping' is that a good thing or a bad thing? 638 00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:41,100 And do you get rid of them 639 00:38:41,236 --> 00:38:42,897 by putting them in a hole in the garden? 640 00:38:43,404 --> 00:38:46,738 I imagine myself crying... 641 00:38:48,034 --> 00:38:51,527 and using my tears to make myself stronger. 642 00:38:51,663 --> 00:38:53,404 The customer's always right! 643 00:39:27,782 --> 00:39:28,613 Want a drink? 644 00:39:28,783 --> 00:39:30,319 David Bailey's studio. 645 00:39:30,451 --> 00:39:32,692 Two-six-five, take one. 646 00:39:41,087 --> 00:39:42,293 They were a merged unit, 647 00:39:42,463 --> 00:39:44,124 they were more than a husband and wife. 648 00:39:44,299 --> 00:39:45,539 They were more than a partnership. 649 00:39:45,675 --> 00:39:49,634 They had completely merged their sensibilities. 650 00:39:49,971 --> 00:39:51,962 What's this film for, your grandchildren? 651 00:39:52,098 --> 00:39:55,807 No. For the record. We've just made a record. 652 00:39:56,394 --> 00:39:58,260 That's great. Stay like that. 653 00:39:59,439 --> 00:40:00,224 Good. 654 00:40:01,649 --> 00:40:03,811 Don't move a thing, just point that toe down. 655 00:40:04,152 --> 00:40:05,313 It was just a shoot. 656 00:40:05,486 --> 00:40:07,068 You know, it wasn't anything special. 657 00:40:07,196 --> 00:40:09,312 I just let them lead me, in a Way. 658 00:40:09,824 --> 00:40:10,655 Good. Now... 659 00:40:10,825 --> 00:40:12,657 It's really like Blue Angel, isn't it? 660 00:40:12,827 --> 00:40:15,660 -Yeah. Say "lesbian". -Lesbian. 661 00:40:15,830 --> 00:40:16,570 Good. 662 00:40:16,706 --> 00:40:18,617 Chin down a bit. Eyes at me, yeah. 663 00:40:18,750 --> 00:40:20,707 He was an asshole, so I thought he was great. 664 00:40:20,835 --> 00:40:23,247 I really got on great with him. 665 00:40:23,421 --> 00:40:25,537 He could've been a cockney-. 666 00:40:25,798 --> 00:40:27,414 Cos you were the great David Bailey, 667 00:40:27,550 --> 00:40:28,790 it was probably life or death 668 00:40:28,927 --> 00:40:30,838 whether you came out all right or not. 669 00:40:31,179 --> 00:40:33,796 You were one of the Swinging Englanders. 670 00:40:33,932 --> 00:40:34,672 No, I wasn't. 671 00:40:34,807 --> 00:40:37,219 Come on! As much as we were. 672 00:40:37,352 --> 00:40:39,343 -No. Much less. -Bullshit! 673 00:40:39,479 --> 00:40:41,311 I've never been down the King's Road in my life. 674 00:40:41,439 --> 00:40:44,101 Neither did I, till I read about it in the papers. 675 00:40:44,275 --> 00:40:45,857 He was flirting with her in a way, 676 00:40:46,027 --> 00:40:48,394 but flirting with her in front of a camera. 677 00:40:48,738 --> 00:40:51,196 It looked much nicer before. That hand's a bit forced. 678 00:40:51,366 --> 00:40:52,948 Yeah, right. That's what I say. 679 00:40:53,076 --> 00:40:55,443 Shall we get back in? It's always cosy. 680 00:40:55,578 --> 00:40:57,364 He was pushing it to be more sexy. 681 00:40:58,164 --> 00:41:00,747 It seemed almost adolescent, a bit adolescent to do. 682 00:41:00,875 --> 00:41:02,491 That's what I felt at the time. 683 00:41:02,961 --> 00:41:05,293 That's great. Good. 684 00:41:05,421 --> 00:41:06,707 Kiss her this way a bit more, John. 685 00:41:06,839 --> 00:41:08,876 -Yeah. -That's lovely. Good. 686 00:41:09,050 --> 00:41:11,417 -OK, good. -I like this bit. 687 00:41:11,552 --> 00:41:13,213 He fancied her so much. 688 00:41:13,388 --> 00:41:14,878 Relax. Don't move. Stay like that. 689 00:41:15,056 --> 00:41:17,889 He was doing it for us, in a way. 690 00:41:18,017 --> 00:41:21,851 He was showing his emotions for her. 691 00:41:22,063 --> 00:41:23,394 He was letting us see it. 692 00:41:45,169 --> 00:41:49,709 'Jealous Guy' was such a beautiful piece of music. 693 00:41:49,841 --> 00:41:52,424 So typically John Lennon, 694 00:41:52,552 --> 00:41:56,090 intuitive, like, 'nothing to worry about'. 695 00:41:56,222 --> 00:42:00,136 And then Klaus, the way he hugged the beat. 696 00:42:00,268 --> 00:42:03,386 I love it because it's very personal, too, 697 00:42:03,521 --> 00:42:08,607 because that was the moment where I actually got so much 698 00:42:08,776 --> 00:42:11,734 info what he was saying and the way he was playing, 699 00:42:11,863 --> 00:42:14,605 and I didn't know what I was playing. 700 00:42:14,741 --> 00:42:17,574 It was like a trance sort of thing. 701 00:42:17,702 --> 00:42:21,195 I didn't know what key I was in. It just floated automatically. 702 00:42:31,758 --> 00:42:34,796 I heard him singing and watched him singing, 703 00:42:34,927 --> 00:42:38,795 and listening to these beautiful chords and feeling 704 00:42:38,931 --> 00:42:43,767 the groove, so it was like such a gentle little thing. 705 00:42:43,895 --> 00:42:46,353 We weren't being precious with it. 706 00:42:46,814 --> 00:42:49,146 It just was accommodating the lyric. 707 00:42:54,447 --> 00:42:56,154 Would it be fair to say we're getting away 708 00:42:56,282 --> 00:42:58,569 from the property concept of relationship? 709 00:42:58,701 --> 00:43:00,157 That's all very well intellectually, 710 00:43:00,286 --> 00:43:01,947 but when you are in love with somebody, 711 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,946 you tend to be jealous and want to own them, 712 00:43:04,082 --> 00:43:06,119 and possess them 100%, which I do. 713 00:43:06,250 --> 00:43:08,958 But intellectually, before that, well, I thought, "Right." 714 00:43:09,087 --> 00:43:12,330 I mean, "Owning a person is rubbish." 715 00:43:12,507 --> 00:43:15,169 But I love Yoko, I want to possess her completely. 716 00:43:15,343 --> 00:43:17,004 I don't want to stifle her. 717 00:43:18,012 --> 00:43:19,377 I think we're starting to relax. 718 00:43:19,514 --> 00:43:22,097 And because you have so little as a child, I think it is. 719 00:43:22,225 --> 00:43:25,843 Once you find it, you want to hang on to it. 720 00:43:25,978 --> 00:43:28,845 You grab it so much, you tend to kill it. 721 00:44:34,255 --> 00:44:37,748 I particularly remember when 'Jealous Guy' was recorded, 722 00:44:37,925 --> 00:44:41,384 and that was, I don't know, five in the morning or something, 723 00:44:41,512 --> 00:44:43,549 everybody got called in to listen to this 724 00:44:43,681 --> 00:44:46,594 and it was a very moving song. Very powerful. 725 00:44:46,726 --> 00:44:49,559 And I think people were welling up and feeling, 726 00:44:49,687 --> 00:44:52,429 you know, kind of a real feeling of, 727 00:44:52,565 --> 00:44:54,602 "Wow, this is amazing, powerful stuff." 728 00:45:47,286 --> 00:45:48,401 Diana said to me one morning, 729 00:45:48,537 --> 00:45:49,993 we just got this telegram and it says, 730 00:45:50,164 --> 00:45:51,370 "Hi, I'm coming. 731 00:45:52,041 --> 00:45:54,453 And I'll be there soon, signed Claudio." 732 00:45:54,585 --> 00:45:56,451 And everybody thought, "Well, he can't get here," 733 00:45:56,587 --> 00:45:57,748 and I said, "I'm not so sure.” 734 00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,917 And lo and behold, he turned up at the gate. 735 00:46:01,759 --> 00:46:05,093 This was a shell-shocked Vietnam veteran, a young man. 736 00:46:05,221 --> 00:46:07,838 I think he '0' been in a hospital in San Francisco, 737 00:46:08,015 --> 00:46:09,972 and he was about to be released. 738 00:46:11,102 --> 00:46:13,969 Don't confuse the songs with your own life. 739 00:46:14,689 --> 00:46:16,646 I mean, they might have relevance to your own life, 740 00:46:16,774 --> 00:46:18,685 but a lot of things do. 741 00:46:21,279 --> 00:46:23,361 And we went through a number of things. 742 00:46:23,489 --> 00:46:25,696 The police wanted to arrest him, and John said, "Don't..." 743 00:46:25,866 --> 00:46:27,356 You know, "Don '1' hurt' him." 744 00:46:27,493 --> 00:46:29,200 And then I had this guy called Claudio 745 00:46:29,328 --> 00:46:30,614 saying, "I'm coming, I'm coming. 746 00:46:30,746 --> 00:46:33,238 And I only have to look in your eyes and then I'll know." 747 00:46:33,374 --> 00:46:35,866 So last week, he turned up at the house, you know. 748 00:46:36,002 --> 00:46:38,619 He was obviously very, very infatuated by John, 749 00:46:38,754 --> 00:46:40,995 and he sent a lot of letters. 750 00:46:41,132 --> 00:46:43,669 And some of the time, he thought he was John. 751 00:46:44,260 --> 00:46:47,218 But he also wanted to meet him, desperately wanted to meet him. 752 00:46:47,805 --> 00:46:51,048 So we've met, you know. I'm just a guy, man, who writes songs. 753 00:46:53,436 --> 00:46:55,723 We can only say hello. And what else is there? 754 00:46:55,896 --> 00:46:56,886 Yeah. 755 00:46:57,773 --> 00:46:59,559 Yeah, I figured that if we met, 756 00:47:00,484 --> 00:47:02,225 I'd know, you know, just by meeting you. 757 00:47:03,279 --> 00:47:04,735 But know what? 758 00:47:05,614 --> 00:47:08,197 You know, if what I was thinking was true. 759 00:47:08,326 --> 00:47:11,489 -Is it true? -Well, I guess not. 760 00:47:11,620 --> 00:47:13,577 -Right. I'm just a guy, man. -Yeah. 761 00:47:14,832 --> 00:47:16,414 But... Yeah. 762 00:47:16,584 --> 00:47:18,040 But it all fits. 763 00:47:18,169 --> 00:47:20,831 Anything fits. If you're tripping off on some trip, 764 00:47:20,963 --> 00:47:22,749 anything fits, you know. 765 00:47:23,424 --> 00:47:24,914 Remember that one, um... 766 00:47:25,092 --> 00:47:26,548 "You can radiate everything you are. 767 00:47:26,677 --> 00:47:28,088 You can penetrate anywhere you go"? 768 00:47:28,262 --> 00:47:30,674 -Yeah. -"Syndicate any..." Yeah. 769 00:47:30,806 --> 00:47:32,922 That was just having fun with words. 770 00:47:33,934 --> 00:47:36,926 I thought of the 'radiate, syndicate'. 771 00:47:37,104 --> 00:47:40,096 'Radiate', she wrote that. 'Radiate and syndicate'. 772 00:47:40,232 --> 00:47:41,814 I was just having fun with words. 773 00:47:41,942 --> 00:47:44,479 It was literally a nonsense song. 774 00:47:44,612 --> 00:47:45,602 I wouldn't tell you, unless... 775 00:47:45,780 --> 00:47:48,522 I mean, Dylan does that, anybody does it, you know. 776 00:47:49,450 --> 00:47:52,442 They just take words, you stick them together 777 00:47:52,620 --> 00:47:54,782 and it's like throwing the 'I Ching' or something. 778 00:47:54,914 --> 00:47:55,870 You just see what happens. 779 00:47:55,998 --> 00:47:57,955 You take a bunch of words, you throw them out 780 00:47:58,084 --> 00:47:59,370 and see if they have any meaning. 781 00:47:59,502 --> 00:48:00,913 Some of them do, some of them don't. 782 00:48:02,046 --> 00:48:03,957 And your "Old Hare Krishna has nothing on you"? 783 00:48:04,090 --> 00:48:07,674 Yeah. Well, he don't. You know, I mean, you're it. 784 00:48:15,643 --> 00:48:18,761 See, that last album of mine was me coming out of my dream. 785 00:48:22,024 --> 00:48:24,311 Seems like it could've been different. 786 00:48:24,443 --> 00:48:25,478 What could've? 787 00:48:27,071 --> 00:48:29,233 Well, before that last album, the way it built up... 788 00:48:30,157 --> 00:48:33,866 To me, it was just a hallucination, a dream. 789 00:48:34,203 --> 00:48:37,662 It is now... 'cause it's over. 790 00:48:38,082 --> 00:48:39,038 Right. 791 00:48:40,918 --> 00:48:43,535 You can last your whole life on that dream, you know. 792 00:48:46,132 --> 00:48:47,839 And then it's all over. 793 00:48:51,846 --> 00:48:54,463 You weren't thinking of anyone in particular 794 00:48:54,598 --> 00:48:55,679 when you were singing all that? 795 00:48:55,850 --> 00:48:58,137 How could I be? How could I be thinking of you, man? 796 00:48:58,269 --> 00:49:00,010 Well, I don't know. Maybe... I don't care me, 797 00:49:00,187 --> 00:49:01,723 but it's all somebody. 798 00:49:01,856 --> 00:49:05,520 I'm thinking about me, or at best, Yoko, if it's a love song. 799 00:49:07,695 --> 00:49:10,357 You know, and I maybe think about an audience in general. 800 00:49:10,531 --> 00:49:13,239 If I'm singing "Old Hare Krishna got nothing on you", 801 00:49:13,367 --> 00:49:15,984 I'm sort of talking to any old friends who've been listening 802 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,361 to what we were saying and I'm saying, "Look, well, 803 00:49:18,539 --> 00:49:20,951 I think it's a lot of bullshit, now." 804 00:49:21,167 --> 00:49:23,955 You know, "Let's forget it," you know. 805 00:49:24,170 --> 00:49:27,583 And that, as far as I'm concerned, and... 806 00:49:29,049 --> 00:49:30,881 But that's it. I'm basically singing about me. 807 00:49:31,051 --> 00:49:33,042 I'm saying, you know, "I had a good shit today," 808 00:49:33,179 --> 00:49:35,045 and, "This is what I thought this morning," 809 00:49:35,222 --> 00:49:37,884 and, "I love you, Yoko." 810 00:49:38,017 --> 00:49:40,008 Whatever. I'm singing about me and my life, you know. 811 00:49:40,144 --> 00:49:41,805 If it's relevant for other people's lives, 812 00:49:41,937 --> 00:49:43,052 that's all right. 813 00:49:46,775 --> 00:49:48,891 He had great empathy, 814 00:49:49,403 --> 00:49:51,986 which, if you think about it, can be very painful. 815 00:49:52,698 --> 00:49:53,779 You know, he cared. 816 00:49:53,908 --> 00:49:55,364 Are you hungry? 817 00:49:57,203 --> 00:49:58,534 -Hmm? -Yeah. 818 00:49:58,662 --> 00:50:00,152 Let's give him something to eat. 819 00:50:44,083 --> 00:50:46,666 I went there, I think, about three or four times, 820 00:50:46,794 --> 00:50:50,753 sometimes to do the interview and sometimes just to hang out. 821 00:50:50,881 --> 00:50:53,748 One day, John rang and said... 822 00:50:53,926 --> 00:50:55,007 "Do you want to come over? 823 00:50:55,135 --> 00:50:58,378 I've got a new song I want to play it to you. 824 00:50:59,139 --> 00:51:01,221 And it's part of a new album." 825 00:51:01,350 --> 00:51:03,216 Well, there's only three I've written this year. 826 00:51:03,352 --> 00:51:05,639 All the rest were things I'd written before 827 00:51:05,771 --> 00:51:07,853 and just polished them off. 828 00:51:08,190 --> 00:51:10,306 There's a nice one called 'Crippled Inside'. 829 00:51:10,484 --> 00:51:11,849 I'll play it you later. 830 00:51:11,986 --> 00:51:13,818 We just chatted. 831 00:51:13,988 --> 00:51:16,980 I have to shave my moustache off, have my hair cut, 832 00:51:17,116 --> 00:51:19,323 because I went in under false papers... 833 00:51:19,451 --> 00:51:20,407 Yes, I read it. 834 00:51:20,536 --> 00:51:21,651 We heard it too because of... 835 00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:23,319 We were talking about the government, 836 00:51:23,497 --> 00:51:27,661 we were talking about what was going on in Vietnam, 837 00:51:27,793 --> 00:51:29,909 the Cultural Revolution in China, 838 00:51:30,045 --> 00:51:32,332 the Japanese student movement. 839 00:51:32,631 --> 00:51:35,168 Did I hear there was some good news on China? 840 00:51:35,342 --> 00:51:38,676 Well, there's some good news on Vietnam. 841 00:51:39,013 --> 00:51:40,629 The impression we have is that 842 00:51:40,764 --> 00:51:43,096 if we discussed it more concretely, 843 00:51:43,225 --> 00:51:44,886 the Vietnamese would be very pleased. 844 00:51:45,019 --> 00:51:47,181 The things that were animating them 845 00:51:47,313 --> 00:51:50,146 were the things that were animating, you know, 846 00:51:50,274 --> 00:51:51,264 a whole generation. 847 00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,562 The war in Vietnam, in particular. 848 00:51:53,694 --> 00:51:56,607 Difficult to explain now to people 849 00:51:56,739 --> 00:51:59,948 how much that war did to radicalise us. 850 00:52:00,075 --> 00:52:04,694 And the election of Richard Nixon 851 00:52:05,539 --> 00:52:07,371 escalated the war further. 852 00:52:07,499 --> 00:52:10,912 I mean, they took it one whole country further 853 00:52:11,420 --> 00:52:15,288 by wrecking Cambodia, bombing it indiscriminately 854 00:52:15,424 --> 00:52:18,041 and destroying its government. 855 00:53:11,271 --> 00:53:14,605 The world's largest, most powerful military nation 856 00:53:14,733 --> 00:53:17,976 bombing what was essentially a peasant country. 857 00:53:18,112 --> 00:53:21,400 They were deliberately targeting civilians. 858 00:54:02,614 --> 00:54:04,651 There was a great revolution taking place 859 00:54:04,825 --> 00:54:06,065 across the globe. 860 00:54:07,411 --> 00:54:09,197 The youth of that time were saying, 861 00:54:09,329 --> 00:54:11,320 "We don't like the world we were born into. 862 00:54:11,457 --> 00:54:13,869 We want it to be different. We want to change it." 863 00:54:29,141 --> 00:54:31,007 Coming of age in the late '60s, 864 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,517 learning about the civil rights movement, 865 00:54:33,645 --> 00:54:35,431 learning about the war in Vietnam, 866 00:54:35,564 --> 00:54:39,728 I started to become angry and upset. 867 00:54:40,235 --> 00:54:41,851 And, to a certain extent, 868 00:54:42,029 --> 00:54:44,566 embarrassed that I was part of a big lie. 869 00:54:50,788 --> 00:54:52,028 There were riots 870 00:54:52,164 --> 00:54:54,075 outside the American Embassy. 871 00:55:03,050 --> 00:55:06,509 It didn't go down well with the Establishment, that's for sure. 872 00:55:06,637 --> 00:55:09,425 And the older generation didn't appreciate it. 873 00:55:10,224 --> 00:55:12,511 The people are the government, the people have the power. 874 00:55:12,643 --> 00:55:15,385 Al! we have to do is awaken the power in the people. 875 00:55:32,246 --> 00:55:35,034 You know, these impressions never go away. 876 00:55:35,165 --> 00:55:36,200 I can still see them. 877 00:55:36,333 --> 00:55:40,076 And they were hugely important in radicalising me. 878 00:55:40,254 --> 00:55:42,495 And so, we used to discuss these things. 879 00:55:42,631 --> 00:55:44,747 And Yoko, of course, knew. 880 00:55:44,883 --> 00:55:46,465 She said, "Yeah, I know, 881 00:55:46,593 --> 00:55:48,755 and you know what they did to Japan 882 00:55:48,929 --> 00:55:52,467 and the way they bombed my country." 883 00:56:07,030 --> 00:56:10,273 War was not an abstraction to her. 884 00:56:10,450 --> 00:56:14,660 She experienced it first-hand. 885 00:56:16,498 --> 00:56:19,707 Yoko came from an extraordinarily privileged class 886 00:56:21,295 --> 00:56:22,956 from a banking family. 887 00:56:27,593 --> 00:56:32,338 And then the skies opened up and the bombs fell. 888 00:57:04,796 --> 00:57:09,882 And she spoke to me about being in the countryside... 889 00:57:12,262 --> 00:57:15,926 looking for food, looking for shelter... 890 00:57:18,185 --> 00:57:23,396 and looking for some way home that no longer existed. 891 00:57:38,956 --> 00:57:43,701 In the Second World War, I was in the middle of it. 892 00:57:43,835 --> 00:57:45,917 All the kids had to evacuate. 893 00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:50,544 And we evacuated in a country house. 894 00:57:53,387 --> 00:57:56,721 Even now, I remember how my brother, 895 00:57:56,848 --> 00:58:00,011 who was really always happy... 896 00:58:00,435 --> 00:58:01,846 Like this, you know? 897 00:58:02,479 --> 00:58:04,720 And he sat like that. 898 00:58:06,066 --> 00:58:07,181 Like this. 899 00:58:07,859 --> 00:58:10,191 So I said, "Kei, what's happening?" 900 00:58:10,988 --> 00:58:12,478 "Well, I'm hungry." 901 00:58:13,323 --> 00:58:16,236 I didn't know what to do, because we didn't have the food. 902 00:58:16,410 --> 00:58:22,122 So, I said, "OK, let's create a great menu!" 903 00:58:23,792 --> 00:58:27,877 And I said, "What would you like most to eat?" 904 00:58:28,505 --> 00:58:29,745 "Ice cream!" 905 00:58:30,090 --> 00:58:31,546 "OK, ice cream." 906 00:58:31,675 --> 00:58:35,259 He started to get sort of happier. 907 00:58:35,429 --> 00:58:38,547 And I thought, "Oh, my God, this is great," you know. 908 00:58:39,891 --> 00:58:42,929 And you imagined a meal, then? 909 00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:45,978 'Imagine' made a lot of things for me. 910 00:58:49,109 --> 00:58:50,270 Give it to Jacqueline! 911 00:58:50,402 --> 00:58:51,858 Yeah, you're the next oldest, Jacque. 912 00:58:51,987 --> 00:58:53,443 Yeah, well, I don't like reading, do I? 913 00:58:53,613 --> 00:58:54,728 Yeah, you do. 914 00:58:54,865 --> 00:58:57,448 You got good reports in your reading. 915 00:58:57,617 --> 00:58:59,278 -No, I didn't. -Yes, you did. 916 00:58:59,453 --> 00:59:00,158 I didn't. 917 00:59:00,287 --> 00:59:02,119 You didn't exactly get E, did you? 918 00:59:02,247 --> 00:59:07,413 "Skin 2,000 balloons, fly them in the air. 1964, spring. 919 00:59:07,544 --> 00:59:08,909 That's 'Fly Piece'." 920 00:59:09,463 --> 00:59:11,170 Well, if you skinned a balloon, 921 00:59:11,298 --> 00:59:12,788 it wouldn't be able to fly, would it? 922 00:59:12,966 --> 00:59:13,876 Ow! 923 00:59:16,136 --> 00:59:17,752 No, you've got to use your imagination, 924 00:59:18,180 --> 00:59:20,137 or it doesn't mean anything, otherwise. 925 00:59:22,350 --> 00:59:27,140 I'm going to put a board on now. This is A1, head slate. 926 01:00:04,851 --> 01:00:07,183 It probably took no more than two or three hours 927 01:00:07,312 --> 01:00:09,770 to get the core of 'imagine' into shape. 928 01:00:09,898 --> 01:00:13,391 Then it was refinement for the rest of the recording session. 929 01:00:20,784 --> 01:00:22,445 Played over you... 930 01:00:22,661 --> 01:00:25,949 See, I think it would be better if he just played... 931 01:00:26,623 --> 01:00:27,784 We're not getting any of it. 932 01:00:27,916 --> 01:00:29,031 ...either a piano underneath. 933 01:00:29,167 --> 01:00:31,750 It should just be a piano song, you know. 934 01:00:36,049 --> 01:00:37,915 See, when we tape I'd go to him... 935 01:00:38,051 --> 01:00:40,668 Nicky, we can try you an octave higher on the piano, 936 01:00:40,804 --> 01:00:42,294 playing the same as me, almost. 937 01:00:42,430 --> 01:00:43,670 Yeah, OK. 938 01:00:44,432 --> 01:00:45,718 John would do that sort of thing, 939 01:00:45,851 --> 01:00:47,512 "Come and sit down, and play with me." 940 01:00:49,479 --> 01:00:52,972 They'd play it together and see if they could enhance it. 941 01:00:53,483 --> 01:00:54,439 So... 942 01:01:00,949 --> 01:01:02,485 No, do the same as me. 943 01:01:03,618 --> 01:01:08,112 The thought was that the piano in the white room, 944 01:01:08,248 --> 01:01:09,784 because it was a far better piano 945 01:01:09,916 --> 01:01:12,624 than the upright in the studio, 946 01:01:12,752 --> 01:01:15,835 that it would give a better piano sound. 947 01:01:22,304 --> 01:01:23,920 Yoko, why don't you go in there and listen, 948 01:01:24,097 --> 01:01:25,178 instead of being here? 949 01:01:34,232 --> 01:01:38,817 OK. Let's just try it with piano, bass and drums. 950 01:01:41,156 --> 01:01:43,773 Yeah, good. We'll come in on the F now. 951 01:01:43,950 --> 01:01:47,068 I don't think you can stay in, but just try coming in on the F. 952 01:01:47,787 --> 01:01:51,280 John tried it out, but there was just too much room content. 953 01:01:51,750 --> 01:01:53,866 The room was too reverberant. 954 01:01:54,002 --> 01:01:57,495 And it wasn't a complementary reverberation of the piano. 955 01:01:57,631 --> 01:01:58,621 Yes? 956 01:01:58,757 --> 01:02:00,623 The piano sounds terrible. 957 01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:02,461 Play it on this.. - And Nicky. .. 958 01:02:02,594 --> 01:02:05,677 And then we'll track it later or something. 959 01:02:05,805 --> 01:02:07,466 That might be the best answer. 960 01:02:07,641 --> 01:02:10,429 Yeah, OK. Well, look, I'll just do it and track it myself, 961 01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:13,018 but not in octaves, the same key, you know. 962 01:02:13,146 --> 01:02:15,103 -Same register? —Yeah, right, right. 963 01:02:15,232 --> 01:02:17,644 - The problem is in that room. -OK, let's go, then. 964 01:02:17,817 --> 01:02:18,852 It's spread out like hell. 965 01:02:18,985 --> 01:02:21,101 Well, I wish they'd told us before. 966 01:02:21,488 --> 01:02:22,444 Phil? 967 01:02:25,867 --> 01:02:28,154 "And the world will be as one!" 968 01:02:28,328 --> 01:02:31,787 So, we'll have to do this some other day, ladies and gentlemen! 969 01:02:32,165 --> 01:02:36,329 You see? Because they've only taken an hour, you see, 970 01:02:36,461 --> 01:02:38,953 to tell us that the noise is spreading in this room, 971 01:02:39,089 --> 01:02:39,874 YOU see? 972 01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:43,507 Just don't forget. 973 01:02:53,645 --> 01:02:55,852 Well, it was in the afternoon, 974 01:02:55,981 --> 01:03:00,100 and I think it was the first song we played in that day. 975 01:03:00,610 --> 01:03:02,192 And everybody came in and, 976 01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:04,061 "We're gonna do 'Imagine' today." 977 01:03:04,239 --> 01:03:05,729 That's the best, I think. 978 01:03:09,077 --> 01:03:13,071 And so, we all stood around and listened to it. 979 01:03:13,206 --> 01:03:17,746 And it was apparent that that was going to be a big, big one. 980 01:03:22,924 --> 01:03:25,336 -Vibes. -Vibes, right. 981 01:03:25,468 --> 01:03:29,257 He played it on the piano and he gave everybody lyrics, 982 01:03:29,723 --> 01:03:32,055 and he wanted everybody to read them. 983 01:03:38,565 --> 01:03:39,976 First of all, 984 01:03:40,108 --> 01:03:41,815 I didn't care about what the drums played 985 01:03:41,943 --> 01:03:43,854 because the lyrics were so stunning, 986 01:03:44,571 --> 01:03:48,280 so I said, "I've just got to really cater 987 01:03:48,908 --> 01:03:50,740 to what this song needs." 988 01:04:19,356 --> 01:04:22,769 It was just so simple, so nice and, still, to this day, 989 01:04:22,942 --> 01:04:27,186 I feel that if he would have played it just on the piano, 990 01:04:27,322 --> 01:04:30,906 no bass, no drums, no strings, 991 01:04:31,034 --> 01:04:33,196 no nothing, it would have been enough. 992 01:04:33,453 --> 01:04:35,911 The song was really finished already. 993 01:04:46,966 --> 01:04:49,833 The feeling of the vocal and what the words meant 994 01:04:49,969 --> 01:04:52,586 were really huge, in my mind. 995 01:05:01,022 --> 01:05:03,730 Imagine what it means if we can get rid of all the labels, 996 01:05:03,858 --> 01:05:06,976 all the categories, all the things that divide us, 997 01:05:07,112 --> 01:05:08,602 and imagine that. 998 01:05:09,823 --> 01:05:12,030 Because that's the way to peace. 999 01:05:12,700 --> 01:05:14,532 It's that, at first, you have to see it, 1000 01:05:14,661 --> 01:05:16,618 you have to be able to imagine it. 1001 01:05:16,746 --> 01:05:19,704 And the role of the imagination, not just in art, 1002 01:05:19,874 --> 01:05:22,115 but in being a complete human being. 1003 01:05:29,175 --> 01:05:31,212 He's not shoving it down people's throats. 1004 01:05:31,344 --> 01:05:32,834 I mean, this is what I admire. 1005 01:05:33,012 --> 01:05:35,845 And it's not religious, it's not political. 1006 01:05:36,015 --> 01:05:38,882 It's just humanity and life. 1007 01:05:42,605 --> 01:05:45,142 To imagine something 1008 01:05:45,275 --> 01:05:48,393 is not a passive experience. 1009 01:05:49,112 --> 01:05:51,023 That if you want the kind of world 1010 01:05:51,156 --> 01:05:53,488 that's expressed in that song, 1011 01:05:53,950 --> 01:05:56,237 you have to do something about it. 1012 01:05:56,661 --> 01:06:00,370 It was a demonstrable call to action. 1013 01:06:06,963 --> 01:06:07,919 A lot of people have said, 1014 01:06:08,047 --> 01:06:09,583 "Well, you know, it's all a bit too dreamy." 1015 01:06:09,716 --> 01:06:13,209 Yeah, but we all actually really want what he's singing about. 1016 01:06:13,887 --> 01:06:14,877 We all want that. 1017 01:06:15,054 --> 01:06:16,920 And I think that's why, even today, 1018 01:06:17,056 --> 01:06:18,546 the song is still so important. 1019 01:06:18,683 --> 01:06:22,096 Because, the sad thing is, the world is still in a bad Way. 1020 01:06:22,645 --> 01:06:25,728 Why is it impossible to move forward in these dreams 1021 01:06:25,899 --> 01:06:27,890 and make them a reality? 1022 01:06:40,246 --> 01:06:44,114 He was always saying to me, "Our appeal, your appeal, 1023 01:06:44,250 --> 01:06:49,620 it's too limited, we've got to get more people involved," etc. 1024 01:06:49,756 --> 01:06:54,922 And I think he wanted 'Imagine ' to be. .. 1025 01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:59,839 It's almost like a manifesto for a movement. 1026 01:07:00,517 --> 01:07:05,262 A utopian manifesto for a progressive movement. 1027 01:07:06,022 --> 01:07:10,232 And he wanted to appeal to... 1028 01:07:12,070 --> 01:07:13,560 the world outside. 1029 01:07:14,447 --> 01:07:16,529 "If you agree with these aims, 1030 01:07:16,658 --> 01:07:18,945 come with us and we'll create a new world." 1031 01:07:19,118 --> 01:07:21,906 That was the way he wrote that song. 1032 01:07:31,923 --> 01:07:34,790 I hear Yoko, because those are all her words. 1033 01:07:34,968 --> 01:07:36,458 You know? 1034 01:07:36,594 --> 01:07:38,380 Those words are... 1035 01:07:38,555 --> 01:07:41,673 I love John, but, you know, those were her words. 1036 01:07:42,308 --> 01:07:43,890 She was speaking through him. 1037 01:07:45,144 --> 01:07:48,637 You know, I mean, I don't think the world's got that quite yet, 1038 01:07:48,773 --> 01:07:50,263 but all of this... 1039 01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,142 You know, the language that you see 1040 01:07:53,319 --> 01:07:55,902 from the time they got together, forward, 1041 01:07:56,030 --> 01:07:57,612 is Yoko's language. 1042 01:07:57,865 --> 01:07:59,822 She taught him this language. 1043 01:08:13,172 --> 01:08:16,164 That should be credited as a Lennon-Ono song 1044 01:08:16,301 --> 01:08:19,669 because a lot of it, the lyric and the concept, came from Yoko. 1045 01:08:19,846 --> 01:08:22,383 But those days, I was a bit more selfish, a bi! more macho, 1046 01:08:22,515 --> 01:08:25,507 and I sort of omitted to mention her contribution. 1047 01:08:25,685 --> 01:08:28,268 But it was right out of Grapefruit', her book. 1048 01:08:28,396 --> 01:08:31,559 There's a whole piece about imagine this and imagine that, 1049 01:08:31,691 --> 01:08:34,479 and give her credit now, long overdue. 1050 01:08:35,236 --> 01:08:38,695 I feel, in the big picture... 1051 01:08:41,034 --> 01:08:43,150 the fact that John and I met... 1052 01:08:44,996 --> 01:08:46,862 was to do this song. 1053 01:09:23,910 --> 01:09:25,742 -283 on the end. -Excellent. 1054 01:09:26,412 --> 01:09:27,493 We have a movie. 1055 01:09:28,247 --> 01:09:29,737 -Cut! -What? 1056 01:09:29,874 --> 01:09:32,366 That's the full output... 1057 01:09:33,753 --> 01:09:35,369 I'm going for a piss. 1058 01:09:37,799 --> 01:09:39,665 All the photographs... 1059 01:09:51,354 --> 01:09:56,770 Yoko said she had this idea of John with clouds in his eyes. 1060 01:09:57,276 --> 01:09:59,813 OK, I can get the glasses for this tomorrow. 1061 01:09:59,946 --> 01:10:03,064 So, we get the glasses in the morning, 1062 01:10:03,199 --> 01:10:05,236 and in the afternoon, I do this photograph, 1063 01:10:05,785 --> 01:10:07,241 this photograph, 1064 01:10:08,287 --> 01:10:09,448 and this photograph. 1065 01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:14,499 Yeah. OK, so, the light should be from there 1066 01:10:14,836 --> 01:10:16,497 just to above the eyebrows. 1067 01:10:16,629 --> 01:10:19,212 Yes, I'm doing it a bit larger, John, so that we can cut it. 1068 01:10:19,340 --> 01:10:20,125 OK. 1069 01:10:20,258 --> 01:10:23,125 I had taken a bunch of pictures of John, blown them up, 1070 01:10:23,302 --> 01:10:25,293 and cut the eyes out, that was the original idea. 1071 01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:27,717 And then we took pictures of clouds and put them in. 1072 01:10:30,309 --> 01:10:32,676 -It's not the final version. -Oh, yes. 1073 01:10:32,812 --> 01:10:33,847 Ah! 1074 01:10:35,732 --> 01:10:36,813 No, but you see, 1075 01:10:36,941 --> 01:10:39,433 and then in the back, there will be a profile. 1076 01:10:39,569 --> 01:10:41,480 -Yes, 'Imagine.' -'Imagine'. 1077 01:10:41,612 --> 01:10:43,819 But the problem was, it looked weird. 1078 01:10:43,990 --> 01:10:45,355 It would be more delicately done. 1079 01:10:45,491 --> 01:10:47,482 How would we do that, then? Just have a slide... 1080 01:10:47,660 --> 01:10:48,946 It's going to be called 'Imagine'. 1081 01:10:49,078 --> 01:10:51,490 -Yeah. -Very, very, good. 1082 01:10:51,831 --> 01:10:53,788 Freaky, isn't it? 1083 01:10:53,916 --> 01:10:56,954 When we were at Tittenhurst Park, 1084 01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:01,663 John and everybody was running around with Polaroids 1085 01:11:01,841 --> 01:11:06,210 and they found out this way of exposing it twice. 1086 01:11:07,555 --> 01:11:09,717 Just like you took a picture 1087 01:11:09,849 --> 01:11:13,513 and then you take a photo of the sky, 1088 01:11:13,644 --> 01:11:14,884 a cloud or something. 1089 01:11:19,192 --> 01:11:21,854 He had this Polaroid, he had a Shoot Polaroid, 1090 01:11:22,028 --> 01:11:23,109 it had a long nose. 1091 01:11:23,237 --> 01:11:24,898 It was for taking portraits. 1092 01:11:25,031 --> 01:11:28,319 And he said, "The wonderful thing is, I can take a picture 1093 01:11:29,076 --> 01:11:30,362 and then I can take another picture 1094 01:11:30,495 --> 01:11:31,951 and I get a double exposure." 1095 01:11:32,914 --> 01:11:35,872 And, so, Yoko took a picture of John 1096 01:11:36,042 --> 01:11:38,033 and then took a picture of the clouds. 1097 01:11:38,169 --> 01:11:40,331 And, of course, she got it. 1098 01:11:51,724 --> 01:11:52,885 Sorry I'm a little late. 1099 01:11:53,017 --> 01:11:54,678 That's all right, you're just in time in a Way. 1100 01:11:54,811 --> 01:11:56,017 We're OK. 1101 01:11:59,482 --> 01:12:01,564 Just this intro I want you on. 1102 01:12:01,734 --> 01:12:03,441 Just comes in, it goes from A to D. 1103 01:12:23,714 --> 01:12:24,704 That's it! 1104 01:12:25,216 --> 01:12:26,672 I want them hooked on the sax, 1105 01:12:26,801 --> 01:12:28,712 so they're waiting for it all through the record. 1106 01:12:32,473 --> 01:12:33,713 You're going to be in the frame. 1107 01:12:33,850 --> 01:12:35,386 Is that camera in the frame? No. 1108 01:12:50,533 --> 01:12:53,025 Just relax, you don't have to be in or out of the picture. 1109 01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:54,867 Just do whatever you have to do, OK? 1110 01:12:54,996 --> 01:12:58,239 It's going to be a clock, so it's not like a proper movie. 1111 01:12:58,624 --> 01:12:59,955 It'll just be like a background. 1112 01:13:35,328 --> 01:13:38,320 A! the time, the job was to take a lot of film 1113 01:13:38,497 --> 01:13:41,364 that was shot in England, in various places. 1114 01:13:42,126 --> 01:13:43,708 It was all very experimental 1115 01:13:44,045 --> 01:13:46,002 and I don't think we really knew 1116 01:13:46,130 --> 01:13:47,620 exactly what we were going to do. 1117 01:14:00,394 --> 01:14:01,805 So fucking hot, isn't it? 1118 01:14:02,772 --> 01:14:06,015 We went up to the suite in the St Regis and met them. 1119 01:14:07,193 --> 01:14:08,479 HEY' Que pasa'? 1120 01:14:10,613 --> 01:14:12,524 Who's this, please, que pasa? 1121 01:14:13,741 --> 01:14:15,607 Karen. I've got news for you. 1122 01:14:15,743 --> 01:14:17,529 I don't think we really knew exactly 1123 01:14:17,662 --> 01:14:18,948 what we were going to do, 1124 01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:22,493 except take all this footage and edit it with the songs. 1125 01:14:22,625 --> 01:14:23,706 That's how we set out. 1126 01:15:02,832 --> 01:15:04,743 We had thousands of feet of film 1127 01:15:05,251 --> 01:15:07,538 of just about everything you can imagine. 1128 01:15:07,670 --> 01:15:09,832 There was a lot of stuff besides Tittenhurst, 1129 01:15:09,964 --> 01:15:12,205 there was a recording session. 1130 01:15:15,344 --> 01:15:17,711 There was some kind of political demonstration 1131 01:15:17,847 --> 01:15:19,087 through the streets of London. 1132 01:15:24,103 --> 01:15:25,514 There was stuff on the lake. 1133 01:15:38,284 --> 01:15:40,696 In addition to all the film that came from Tittenhurst 1134 01:15:40,828 --> 01:15:42,944 and other places in and around London, 1135 01:15:43,122 --> 01:15:45,534 we shot quite a bit in New York City, because we realised that 1136 01:15:45,666 --> 01:15:48,283 we wanted to get that part of their lives into the movie, 1137 01:15:49,086 --> 01:15:51,623 and that we didn't really have anything showing 1138 01:15:51,797 --> 01:15:54,289 what they were doing in New York City and what it was like. 1139 01:15:59,930 --> 01:16:03,548 The whisper piece was one of my favourite things in 'Imagine'. 1140 01:16:04,185 --> 01:16:06,176 That was Yoko's concept. 1141 01:16:06,979 --> 01:16:09,471 People that Yoko knew and that had some celebrity, 1142 01:16:09,607 --> 01:16:14,443 generally, would come in to visit with John and Yoko 1143 01:16:14,570 --> 01:16:17,688 and the three of them, would stand side by side 1144 01:16:18,324 --> 01:16:20,691 and they would... "Psst-psst-psst." 1145 01:16:21,327 --> 01:16:22,317 “Psst-psst-psst.“ 1146 01:16:22,995 --> 01:16:26,329 And you don't know what they're saying, they're just whispering. 1147 01:16:27,041 --> 01:16:30,124 To me, what I got out of it, was that it was people whispering 1148 01:16:30,252 --> 01:16:32,163 cos there's a lot of secrets in life. 1149 01:16:32,671 --> 01:16:34,537 And many of which don't mean anything, 1150 01:16:34,673 --> 01:16:36,914 so it doesn't matter whether you hear it or not. 1151 01:16:37,176 --> 01:16:38,837 It was people whispering. 1152 01:16:47,853 --> 01:16:50,515 I realised that, after a few songs, 1153 01:16:50,689 --> 01:16:52,851 that there was a sense to it all. 1154 01:16:53,025 --> 01:16:55,687 We were starting to paint a picture of their life, 1155 01:16:56,362 --> 01:16:58,774 of haw they did things and how they lived their life 1156 01:16:58,906 --> 01:17:00,647 and what was going on in their life. 1157 01:17:03,577 --> 01:17:05,534 I think John loved the energy of New York City, 1158 01:17:05,704 --> 01:17:07,160 there's no question about that. 1159 01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:10,372 And I think he loved that it was an opportunity 1160 01:17:10,501 --> 01:17:12,117 for him to become an American. 1161 01:17:20,594 --> 01:17:23,632 He saw New York as being kind of a bit like Liverpool, 1162 01:17:23,764 --> 01:17:26,256 or the Liverpool 8 area, where the art college was. 1163 01:17:26,392 --> 01:17:28,724 And Yoko was, in a way, American. 1164 01:17:28,853 --> 01:17:31,686 I know she's Japanese, but she's mainly American. 1165 01:17:31,897 --> 01:17:35,731 She wanted to live there. She felt happy there. 1166 01:17:39,947 --> 01:17:42,188 They loved New York, absolutely loved New York. 1167 01:17:42,324 --> 01:17:43,485 It was like, "Wow!" 1168 01:17:43,617 --> 01:17:47,406 You know, "I'm here, this is it." 1169 01:17:47,663 --> 01:17:49,404 So, for him, that was it. 1170 01:17:49,540 --> 01:17:52,749 He was in the Village, it was like in the centre of it all, 1171 01:17:52,877 --> 01:17:54,038 of the culture. 1172 01:17:54,461 --> 01:17:57,294 He was John... Lennon. Yeah. 1173 01:17:57,673 --> 01:17:59,129 He wasn't Beatle John. 1174 01:18:05,431 --> 01:18:07,263 How did you like Yoko Ono's show? 1175 01:18:08,058 --> 01:18:09,969 Well, it was a little different, I have to admit. 1176 01:18:10,102 --> 01:18:11,934 Can I ask you, did you enjoy Yoko Ono's show? 1177 01:18:12,104 --> 01:18:14,391 -I certainly did. -Thank you. 1178 01:18:15,482 --> 01:18:16,643 -Yoko? -Ono. 1179 01:18:16,775 --> 01:18:18,812 Oh, Yoko Ono, yes. No, I did see it. 1180 01:18:20,112 --> 01:18:21,568 Do you like her work? 1181 01:18:22,406 --> 01:18:25,023 I don't know much about her. She's Japanese, isn't she? 1182 01:18:25,159 --> 01:18:27,526 Have you had many enquiries about Yoko’s show? 1183 01:18:27,661 --> 01:18:28,742 I have indeed. 1184 01:18:28,871 --> 01:18:31,454 One morning, I'm sitting in my office 1185 01:18:31,624 --> 01:18:33,535 and my secretary comes in 1186 01:18:34,251 --> 01:18:37,369 and she said, "You have to take this phone call." 1187 01:18:37,504 --> 01:18:38,960 I said, "Who is it?" 1188 01:18:39,089 --> 01:18:42,081 She said, "It's the director of the Museum of Modern Art.“ 1189 01:18:42,343 --> 01:18:44,960 He said, "Did you see the paper, today?" 1190 01:18:45,137 --> 01:18:49,005 And sure enough, there is a one-third page ad 1191 01:18:49,475 --> 01:18:53,218 about an art show at the Museum of Modern Art, 1192 01:18:53,354 --> 01:18:55,140 a Yoko Ono art show. 1193 01:18:55,314 --> 01:18:57,225 Are you familiar with Yoko's work? 1194 01:18:57,650 --> 01:19:00,688 No. I've never seen anything, but I've heard of films, 1195 01:19:00,819 --> 01:19:05,484 you know, like, she just makes films of 365 behinds 1196 01:19:05,616 --> 01:19:08,404 and I saw her film of the body with the fly walking on it. 1197 01:19:08,535 --> 01:19:12,494 I called Yoko. I said, "Yoko, I've just gotten a call 1198 01:19:12,665 --> 01:19:15,578 from the director of the Museum of Modern Art. 1199 01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:18,327 There's supposed to be an art show there today." 1200 01:19:18,963 --> 01:19:20,328 She said, "Yes." 1201 01:19:20,756 --> 01:19:22,338 I said, "What kind of art show?" 1202 01:19:22,883 --> 01:19:25,500 She said, "It's a conceptual art show.“ 1203 01:19:25,678 --> 01:19:27,510 I said, "What does that mean?" 1204 01:19:27,638 --> 01:19:30,505 She said, "It's just in my mind, it's a concept." 1205 01:19:31,684 --> 01:19:33,470 There's no Yoko Ono show here. 1206 01:19:34,353 --> 01:19:36,890 I was a little mad about getting here and not finding it, 1207 01:19:37,022 --> 01:19:38,512 but I think it's pretty funny. 1208 01:19:38,691 --> 01:19:40,307 Well, I think it's a bit bonkers. 1209 01:19:41,026 --> 01:19:44,519 -Do you know what bonkers is? -No, what's that mean? 1210 01:19:44,655 --> 01:19:47,773 -Crazy, is it? -Yeah, yeah. 1211 01:19:47,908 --> 01:19:51,242 That's good old Liverpudlian, "bonkers", you know. Yeah, yeah. 1212 01:19:51,370 --> 01:19:55,534 I think it's too far out for me, anyway. 1213 01:19:55,708 --> 01:19:58,370 Well, like, maybe if you look at a picture, 1214 01:19:58,544 --> 01:20:00,706 then you can think of a whole bunch of different things. 1215 01:20:00,838 --> 01:20:01,578 You know? 1216 01:20:01,714 --> 01:20:03,125 -Exactly. -Is that what you mean? 1217 01:20:03,257 --> 01:20:05,168 Right. Except if you take it a step further, 1218 01:20:05,301 --> 01:20:06,541 if there's no picture to look at 1219 01:20:06,677 --> 01:20:08,088 and it's just all in your head. 1220 01:20:08,762 --> 01:20:09,877 It's just what you think. 1221 01:20:10,014 --> 01:20:12,005 Then you would have a very good museum there. 1222 01:20:15,269 --> 01:20:17,601 At 3.35pm, Karen called. 1223 01:20:17,730 --> 01:20:20,097 What time does that say? I can't even see it. 1224 01:20:22,860 --> 01:20:24,146 Oh, it's time. 1225 01:20:29,241 --> 01:20:30,072 Oh! 1226 01:20:30,492 --> 01:20:32,824 At quarter to, he broke the lights. 1227 01:20:36,248 --> 01:20:38,410 That's what happens at quarter to. 1228 01:21:06,445 --> 01:21:08,686 But I always wanted to write something that would be 1229 01:21:08,822 --> 01:21:11,780 a Christmas record that would last forever, you know? 1230 01:21:19,958 --> 01:21:21,665 John called me one day, he said, 1231 01:21:21,794 --> 01:21:24,536 "We want to do a record for Christmas. 1232 01:21:24,797 --> 01:21:28,335 We've got to do it really quick, book the studio." 1233 01:21:33,639 --> 01:21:35,129 We don't have a bass sound at all yet. 1234 01:21:35,307 --> 01:21:38,299 Phil was the producer and it was a beautiful session. 1235 01:21:38,477 --> 01:21:40,684 Nicky, you come in on the D chord, as well. 1236 01:21:40,813 --> 01:21:43,020 With the bass drum, you have to... 1237 01:21:43,148 --> 01:21:45,936 You're coming in on the same place Nicky comes in, 1238 01:21:46,068 --> 01:21:47,650 on that D chord, after the first. 1239 01:21:47,778 --> 01:21:49,485 You play the guitar by themselves, 1240 01:21:49,655 --> 01:21:51,020 then you and the bass come in. 1241 01:22:13,137 --> 01:22:17,381 John said, "In conjunction with the song, 1242 01:22:17,516 --> 01:22:19,757 I want to get a billboard in Times Square." 1243 01:22:20,602 --> 01:22:24,095 John was thrilled with it, Yoko loved where it was. 1244 01:22:24,231 --> 01:22:26,393 It was a prime location. 1245 01:22:26,525 --> 01:22:28,687 Huge billboards, all around, 1246 01:22:28,861 --> 01:22:31,353 selling anything you can imagine. 1247 01:22:44,877 --> 01:22:48,086 And all of it was in brilliant colour 1248 01:22:48,213 --> 01:22:53,708 and in the midst of it was this stark, white billboard 1249 01:22:53,844 --> 01:22:56,051 not selling anything, 1250 01:22:56,221 --> 01:23:00,340 but letting people know that war could be over 1251 01:23:00,476 --> 01:23:03,218 if enough of you believed it. 1252 01:23:05,481 --> 01:23:08,724 It was Yoko's belief that people, 1253 01:23:08,859 --> 01:23:11,897 if they wanted something strong enough, could achieve it. 1254 01:23:12,070 --> 01:23:13,310 WAR IS OVER! IF YOU WANT IT 1255 01:23:13,447 --> 01:23:16,906 And she believed that if enough people wanted war to be over, 1256 01:23:17,117 --> 01:23:18,528 it would be over. 1257 01:23:27,085 --> 01:23:29,076 WAR IS OVER! IF YOU WANT IT 1258 01:23:29,254 --> 01:23:31,461 "War is over, if you want it." 1259 01:23:32,799 --> 01:23:35,541 Well, that's artistic, too, you see? 1260 01:23:35,677 --> 01:23:38,465 "War is over" is not war is over. 1261 01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:41,342 But conceptually, it is over. 1262 01:23:43,268 --> 01:23:44,429 Mm-hm. 1263 01:23:57,991 --> 01:24:00,153 When you're in a city, there is stuff going on. 1264 01:24:00,285 --> 01:24:02,617 In Tittenhurst, they were cut off, 1265 01:24:02,788 --> 01:24:05,780 they were cut off, artistically, from what you can get. 1266 01:24:13,507 --> 01:24:16,966 Yoko never really fitted in, into English country life. 1267 01:24:22,391 --> 01:24:26,305 And, later, of course, it was Yoko who said 1268 01:24:26,436 --> 01:24:29,599 that this island here in which they were living 1269 01:24:29,731 --> 01:24:34,476 was too small and too big at the same time for her. 1270 01:24:34,611 --> 01:24:35,897 She didn't want it. 1271 01:24:36,321 --> 01:24:39,734 And John said to me, "We're moving to Manhattan. 1272 01:24:39,866 --> 01:24:42,608 Yoko can't bear this anymore." 1273 01:24:42,744 --> 01:24:44,451 And who could blame him? 1274 01:24:55,007 --> 01:24:57,339 There were a lot of great moments at Tittenhurst 1275 01:24:57,509 --> 01:24:58,999 that I do fondly remember, 1276 01:24:59,177 --> 01:25:00,667 giggling and laughing with Dad. 1277 01:25:00,804 --> 01:25:03,637 And, er, as they say... 1278 01:25:03,765 --> 01:25:05,597 'shooting the shit'. 1279 01:25:06,602 --> 01:25:10,516 But it was difficult to know... You think, "OK, well... 1280 01:25:11,231 --> 01:25:13,472 is this going to stay? 1281 01:25:13,609 --> 01:25:14,895 Is this what it's going to be, now? 1282 01:25:15,027 --> 01:25:17,109 Can I count on this? Can I be here next weekend, 1283 01:25:17,237 --> 01:25:18,944 or the weekend after? Is that going to happen?" 1284 01:25:19,114 --> 01:25:23,529 That was one of the, obviously, the hardest pills to swallow, 1285 01:25:23,702 --> 01:25:25,693 was the constant change. 1286 01:25:25,829 --> 01:25:29,163 You know, you thought things were going to settle down, 1287 01:25:29,833 --> 01:25:31,369 but they just never quite did. 1288 01:25:41,678 --> 01:25:43,464 I'm trying to remember when they actually went to the States 1289 01:25:43,597 --> 01:25:44,382 because when they went, 1290 01:25:44,556 --> 01:25:45,762 that was actually the last time I saw them. 1291 01:25:45,891 --> 01:25:47,632 And then when they didn't come back again. 1292 01:25:48,352 --> 01:25:49,683 I can't even remember them actually leaving 1293 01:25:49,811 --> 01:25:51,097 or saying goodbye. 1294 01:25:53,231 --> 01:25:55,188 I never said goodbye to him, never did. 1295 01:26:14,419 --> 01:26:16,456 Yeah, I lose a little rhythm here. 1296 01:26:16,588 --> 01:26:18,920 Come in, John, because you may have the opening. 1297 01:26:19,049 --> 01:26:20,881 But you can just use the first bridge 1298 01:26:21,009 --> 01:26:22,625 and then the last "How can we?" 1299 01:26:22,803 --> 01:26:23,793 Oh, I see. 1300 01:26:26,264 --> 01:26:28,255 -79 on the end. -I think the 99th clap. 1301 01:26:28,392 --> 01:26:29,427 Camera B. 1302 01:29:33,952 --> 01:29:34,942 104958

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