All language subtitles for Winnie.2017.WEBRip.x264-ION10

Ladies and gentlemen,
I am pleased to present

one of the women in the struggle
in South Africa

who stood not behind their men,

but for many years in front of them
while their husbands were in prison.

And I ask you to share our excitement

in enjoying the company
of Mrs. Winnie Mandela.

At the back entrance
to the Pretoria Court,

large crowds gather
to watch the accused

being driven away to start
their life sentences.

Mandela and seven fellow prisoners

accused with him of sabotage

were all condemned to life imprisonment

after a trial that lasted eight months.

The government has crushed a plot

to overthrow the South African
government by sabotage and revolution

with Communist assistance.

Mrs. Mandela,
what are your feelings today

after the life sentence
passed on your husband?

Well, I am slightly relieved.
It could have been far worse than this.

In fact, my people and I expected death
sentences for all the accused.

It was actually scary
to visualize the future.

We were all caught up
in that war of liberation.

The self no longer mattered.
The country came first.

When they were incarcerated,

on hindsight,
they actually looked after our leaders,

because from then on, the violence
we witnessed in the country

was untold, and one doesn’t know
what would’ve happened

to the leadership
if they were out there with us.

We were the cannon fodder.

We were the foot soldiers.
And we were vulnerable.

We were exposed to
the viciousness of apartheid.

When they were
incarcerated on Robben Island...

we were allowed one visit in six months.

We hardly actually knew each other.

We married in June 1958.

It’s like it happened yesterday.

I was just a young girl.

I just qualified as a social worker,

and he asked me to help them
raise funds for the Treason Trial.

We oscillated towards each other,
and that was it.

We were great lovers.

He was banned
and confined to Johannesburg,

so he had to get permission to travel
to my rural home, where we got married.

I came from a family of 11.

My father was a school principal.

He had a tremendous influence on me.

He would tell us about our ancestors
fighting for their land

because these people
had come to grab our country.

That is probably what made Winnie...

to be who she is today.

Winnie threw
her entire weight into the struggle

in every conceivable way.

Winnie worked for the ANC.

Of course, that made her a huge target
for the South African security police,

who hadn’t expected that.

They were quite surprised initially.

And then the head of the security
police,

General Van den Bergh, said,
"We will destroy this woman."

They understood that
they had to destroy Winnie

if they wanted to destroy the struggle.

And of course,
as soon as they focused on Winnie,

entered the inevitable barrage
of informers and spies.

She was betrayed time and again
by people that she trusted,

who inserted themselves
into her life.

She very often ended up being arrested
and shocked that people would do that.

These were trained people and were paid
to share whatever they got to know.

When I was taken, the house

was swarming with
the security branch, all white.

I remember Zeni clinging on my skirt,

and with little Zindzi behind,
pulling me and saying,

"Mommy, Mommy, don’t go."

You were held in solitary confinement
for months and months.

It was meant to kill you emotionally
and to kill you to such an extent

that there were only two options.

You either decided

to fight to the last drop of your blood,

or you succumbed to the enemy
and decided to work with them.

I love that picture--
Zeni and I with Mummy,

wearing her ANC douk.

It wasn’t an ANC douk,
but it had the colors.

She used to love wearing that.

It’s the black and green.

You know, part of our flag.

Black for the people,
green for the land.

That was the gate at our home--
Vilekazi Street.

With my mother, you’re not supposed to
say, "Don’t," because then she will do.

If you’re going to say, "We’re going to
ensure that we lock this man up,

that people forget him,
they forget even what he looks like,

they forget what he sounds like,
they forget that he even exists,"

that makes her commit
to ensuring the opposite.

She’s an activist. She’s a fighter.

She’s not the type of person
who can be voiceless.

By the mid-’70s,
most of the African countries

up north, central Africa,
were liberated,

and down south,
there were still countries

that were still under colonial rule,
but that was changing.

And when the students
took to the streets,

protesting against Afrikaans being used
as the medium of instruction,

the whole country was engulfed
into this wave of violence.

We don’t even regard them

as Soweto riots as such,
but a national disaster.

It is the beginning
of what we have always warned

the nationalist,
racist government about.

The system blamed Winnie
for inciting those uprisings,

and she was taken away
to a rural province

a hundred kilometers away
from Johannesburg.

When they came to take my mum,
we thought it was the usual raid.

They had taken her
to Protea police station.

She is being interrogated
and completely unaware

that she’s being packed up
and sent to Brandfort.

Well, I had gotten
so used to being arrested

that I had two little suitcases

where I packed the bare necessities--
toothbrush, toothpaste.

I was so used to that that I...

I honestly did not anticipate
the punishment.

What is your lifestyle like
here in Brandfort?

I am really here in, um, prison.

It’s really being in prison
at your own expense,

being in exile in this kind of area.

Brandfort is really a living grave.

That’s in Brandfort.

That was second or third day there.

We didn’t know where we were.
We’d never even heard of the place.

I think it was deliberately done

like, to take her
from that relative comfort

of what she was more familiar with,
like, at the house in Soweto,

to this harsh new reality
where she knew absolutely nobody

and understood the language
but didn’t speak it.

So it was designed
to completely crush her

and make her feel isolated
from everybody,

to make her feel trapped.

Even as we were driven to the house
and we saw people walking past,

people were even afraid
to look at us, to smile at us.

There was just this huge sense of fear.

The whites told
the people who were working,

"You must be very, very careful
about a Communist woman

who has been placed in your community.

Don’t talk to her."

And even the schoolchildren,
they were told by their masters,

"Don’t talk to a certain woman
called Winnie Mandela,

who has been placed in your community.

She is a Communist."

This area is an area for the whites.

You see now the Boers here.

You know, it was for the whites only.

Even on the station,
we could not even sit on the benches.

"Whites only.
Yours is just right down there."

The first thing I did, of course,

was to recruit soldiers
into Umkhonto we Sizwe.

I arranged their transport from there
to cross the borders into Lesotho.

Thousands from the Orange Free State.

The most important thing
was communication.

I was getting my directives
from the senior leadership,

O.R. and Chris Hani.

Our strategy at the time was
you hit targets at the same time...

in the whole country
so that they cannot measure

the power of the other side.

The ANC strategy
of attacks on important economic targets

like this Sasol oil refinery

has also stepped up this year
by a third on last year

and by four times on two years ago.

Would you be prepared
to take up a gun and kill someone

in order to achieve what you would
regard as your freedom?

Now I know I can.

- You would?
- Now I know I can.

In the past, I didn’t.

But when I saw my children
mowed down in Soweto in 1976,

then I realized that
in order to defend that,

I would do exactly the same.

Up there, that mountain
whereby the special branch

would stand over there
using their telescopes

to see everything that is happening
in Winnie’s house.

There’s thinking people,
and people determined to survive,

and there’s fighters.

We just always, always managed
to beat the system.

We had a coded way of speaking.

We would express ourselves
in such a manner

that the enemy wouldn’t be able
to detect what we're talking about.

I know, and the people
of this country know,

that Mandela will lead
this country to freedom.

It’s very hard now to imagine someone
in a small place like Brandfort,

isolated in this dry, dusty township,

but who came out
with such strength and such charisma,

and was the only person
who would stand up in front of the media

and the international media...

and speak without inhibition.

It is the usual...

the usual cosmetic South African
racist government story.

Act illegally, promote the aims
of the ANC, quote her husband.

If your husband is released,

would he be prepared to go into exile
into Zambia or elsewhere?

Not at all.

There she would stand up
and do it without any sign of fear,

any concern for the law,

complete contempt
for power and authority,

and it was an amazing show
of strength and courage and fortitude.

We are prepared to respond likewise
to the government that has declared war.

I was political reporter
of the Rand Daily Mail,

and I was assigned to cover
Kennedy’s trip.

So I went down to Brandfort.

And it was completely remarkable.

Thank you so much
for letting me come by here.

But visitors managed to find her,

whether she was banned
or in internal exile,

as the world began to respect her

as a dominant political force
in South Africa.

In the same way people were supposed to
forget about my father in prison,

they were supposed to
forget about her in Brandfort,

and her spirit was supposed
to be broken and so on,

and literally she was supposed to be
written out of history.

It was a bold statement
from the Kennedys

to acknowledge her role

and recognize that if they wanted to
discuss the future of South Africa,

that she’s a key player.

She’s the constant.
She was always there.

She was there before Tata
and them went to prison.

She was there
when her people were exiled.

Some people come in and out of history,
but Mummy’s a constant.

Mr. Mandela’s release--
is there any possibility

that could happen anytime soon?

The moment he declares that he, uh,

would not be involved
in the planning of violence,

he can be set free.

It is the ANC
which is jailing him at present.

My father says, "I am a member
of the African National Congress."

My father says,

"I cannot and will not
give any an undertaking

at a time when I and you,
the people, are not free.

Your freedom and mine
cannot be separated.

She was banned at the time.
But she was there,

at the stadium
dressed as a domestic worker,

and she was there in the audience,
and nobody had a clue who she was.

Amandla! One South Africa!

The declaration of a state of emergency

was an admission of defeat.

The government
had been battling the struggle

and had got nowhere with it--
not through political means,

not through terrorizing the population,

not through infiltrating the ANC.

And it was a declaration of war,

which meant that the ANC
had no choice but to do the same.

The explosions
caused extensive damage.

Inside, they ripped out
the walls and floors.

Outside, windows were shattered
in nearby buildings.

21 people died
during the riot last week.

The fighting with police started
after about 500 people had gathered

to protest against eviction
from their homes.

State President PW Botha declared

a state of emergency in South Africa.

"The township riots,"
he said, "must stop."

This state of affairs
can no longer be tolerated.

So for the army and police, a whole
new arsenal of tough security laws.

The police, in their heavily armored
Casper vehicles,

went back into the townships
this morning.

The death toll has been rising
almost every hour.

Emergency legislation that allows them
to arrest anyone without a warrant,

imprison them without access
to a lawyer,

impose curfews,
and seal off townships at will.

...was now virtual warfare.

Local people say police were
responsible for most of the killings.

Well, I’ve just seen 15 young people

with gunshot wounds
all over their bodies.

When the police saw groups
of young people

moving around the townships,
they simply shot them.

Unprovoked. Just shot them.

It’s just the tip of the iceberg.

It’s really...
an ominous sign of the times ahead.

It is the beginning
of what we have always feared.

When she came back
from Brandfort in the mid-’80s,

which is when I met her
for the first time,

we were on the precipice
of either descending

into complete, total anarchy
or trying to rescue the situation.

The 1985 state of emergency

and the 1986 one
which followed shortly thereafter

saw more than 10,000 to 15,000
mainly children, really, being detained.

What the regime wanted to do was--
effectively to intimidate

the whole country into submission

and basically clean out
the activist layer that was there

but also send a message

that they’re not going to tolerate
any dissent.

Apartheid is a criminal act!

The white man has the audacity--

He is three and a half million.
We are 30 million!

The Botha regime can go to hell!

Power to the people!

She was the only person
who could wake up

and wear ANC colors,
go to a meeting, and shout,

"Long live ANC," and then go home.

If any one of us had dared
to do something like that,

then you would know that’s
the day you must leave the country.

And that was a very important position--

to have somebody
in the country who can

defiantly be a member of the ANC,
openly be a member of the ANC.

And quite frankly, the system
didn’t know what to do with her,

because she--
it was just a state of defiance.

The resistance movement
had actually penetrated

to levels where
even if you took another 10,000,

there was just going to be another
layer.

Those who tell us
the moral thing to do is to embargo

the South African economy
and write off South Africa

should tell us exactly what they believe
will rise in its place.

Strategically, this is one of the most
vital regions of the world.

Around the Cape of Good Hope
passes the oil of the Persian Gulf.

Southern Africa and South Africa
are repository of many

of the vital minerals for which the West
has no other secure source of supply.

But the South African government
is under no obligation

to negotiate the future of the country
with any organization

that proclaims a goal
of creating a communist state

and uses terrorist tactics
and violence to achieve it.

The head of the ANC
called a news conference

at the palace of Westminster.

Angry the government won’t see him
unless he renounces violence,

he insists the violence comes
equally from President Botha.

It’s a bit heartless

to keep saying the ANC
must abandon its violence,

because that is saying
that the regime is not violent.

Even at a time when daily
on the television screens,

we are seeing the regime
shooting down children.

She was considered
one of the most senior commanders

of Umkhonto we Sizwe.

She and Chris Hani
worked closely together,

And that relationship grew
over the period of the ’80s.

So she was basically the highest
authority inside the country.

Apartheid was so vicious.
They were killing our people.

It was safer for
all the operatives underground

to come into the country, hit a target,
and go back to Lusaka,

because at the time,
the enemy was shooting to kill.

I used to receive
the ammunition from outside.

It would be buried,

and Lusaka would then send a map

of exactly where the weapons were,

and I had to see to it that
we went to dig up at dead of night

the stuff that had been buried there.

I was with the security branch

and arrested many terrorists
from Umkhonto we Sizwe,

the armed wing of the ANC,

and had them sentenced

to 80 years’ imprisonment,

and some of them hanged.

All my black agents
had to infiltrate the ANC, trade unions,

and of course,
the South African Communist Party.

And I also had a surveillance team,

with cameras, tape recorders,
and so forth.

When it comes to Winnie Mandela,

she’s always been on the radar.

We were aware of her activities,

listening to
her telephone conversations,

and were following her around.

And had people all around her.

She was closely monitored
by the security branch.

We were soon in a position to persist
in keeping the country under control,

but then other things came into play.

Recently Mandela was
moved from Pollsmoor Prison in Cape Town

to a hospital for treatment of TB.

The world got a fleeting glimpse
of the man it hadn’t seen for years.

The hospital visit fueled speculation
about his release.

The Mandela demonstrators
assembled in their thousands

in a north London park before setting
off on a march through the capital.

South Africa needs Nelson Mandela!

The world needs Nelson Mandela!

Towards the end of 1988,

Nelson Mandela was moved to hospital.

And Winnie goes down
to Cape Town to meet him

and, as fate would have it,
is on the same flight

as the Minister of Justice,
Kobie Coetzee, who was a hard-liner.

Mummy approached
Kobie Coetzee at an airport.

She was leaving to see my father,
and she confronted him openly and said,

"I want to know from you, when are you
going to release my husband?"

I went to sit next to him,

and Kobie Coetzee said,
"What will it take to shut you up

so that we can release your husband?

Who should we talk to?"

I said,
"Who are you talking to now?"

After the initial shock

and that type of, like,
in-your-face confrontation,

they began to have a conversation,

and that conversation
eventually led to an exchange

between this apartheid
minister of justice,

where there was no justice,
and my father as a prisoner.

It started with this woman,

whose role is so often overlooked
and disregarded.

Is he going to come out?"

No we don’t know.
I am visiting him again tomorrow.

She planted the seed,
and the rest is history.

And it’s then that the discussions
started taking place

between Nelson Mandela
through Dr. Neil Barnard,

from National Intelligence Service,

and the ball started rolling
towards a political solution.

The answer to,
"Why was Nelson Mandela

the God-given... individual

with whom we could start that?"

Was, 27 years in prison
made him a worldwide icon.

On TV] In July 1988,
over 200 million people

tuned in to a pop extravaganza

held as a tribute to Nelson Mandela
on his 70th birthday.

The ANC leaders in exile

didn’t focus their attention
on Mandela for a long time.

But now, positioning themselves
internationally for change,

they understood that Mandela,

thanks to all Winnie’s ceaseless efforts
for more than two decades,

was perhaps their ticket.

We had the pinnacle
of power under our control,

and quite clearly,
he was more than interested in

starting talks to try to--
also from his side to find out,

can we find some kind
of understanding?

It was quite clear
that at a certain point,

the ANC was going to take over
the government of the country.

So therefore, it was important
to work on him on his own,

without the leadership
in Pollsmoor Prison.

I think it’s
a wonderful idea of Kobie Coetzee--

Let us prepare the man
in normal circumstances,

in a house where he can,

at least for some time,
lead a normal life.

Although it is on the area

being controlled by
Correctional Services, called a prison,

it's a normal house.

Victor Verster was very strange.

This false sense of reality
that they were trying to give him.

Yes, we, uh...
we bugged the house in which he lived.

It’s no secret.

And we were discussing with Mandela,
and I myself many times,

"Sir...

we have a problem with Winnie.

She’s your wife."

My father was actually quite,
um, excited,

because he had been told--

he was offered that his family
can now move in with him.

And then my mother had to come
with this blow, to say,

"You will not.
We will not become glorified prisoners.

I will not allow you to do that
and compromise yourself."

...how the visit was and whether
it’s clarified things for you?

Yes, of course.
It has clarified things a great deal.

She was very much in his life

as that wake-up factor--

you know, wake-up factor--

and always the person
who had the ground intelligence.

He would have loved to go with us today,

and he would love
to be released any day,

and he wants to come home,
like all the leaders.

His release is not in his hands.

Madiba wasn’t aware of it at first.

Isolating him
from the rest of the prisoners

was in fact to work on him

in such a manner...

that he would come out of prison

actually preaching
as much peace as possible,

to protect-- to protect them,
more than anything else.

The townships were war zones.

There were tanks
and armed personnel carriers in Soweto.

Who are you? What are you doing?

The youth were up in arms.

There was enormous anger

from the side of the youth
towards the elders,

whom they saw as
not fighting hard enough.

And Winnie understood
more than anybody else in the ANC

that the younger generation
were the hope for the future.

Mandela FC has been demonized.

At the time,
there was a war between comrades

and carjackers,
who were used by the system--

you know that whole
black-on-black violence.

They were using them against each other,

so there’s a lot of brutality
and fighting there.

For the friends
and relatives of Victoria Nxenge...

Secondly, Victoria Nxenge
had been assassinated in Durban.

The civil rights lawyer
was gunned down in her own driveway

after a day spent preparing
the defense of two fellow

United Democratic Front members
facing high treason charges.

So at the same time
that Mummy’s thinking,

"We need to remove these children
off the streets,"

these children are thinking,
"We need to protect our leader,"

because leaders were vulnerable
and were killed.

I met Winnie when I was harassed
by the security branch forces.

I stayed in her house
for the hiding place.

She taught me about
the politics of the ANC--

what is the ANC and all--
and what it’s all about in the ANC--

and she taught me about the army things.

About the armed struggle,
what is the armed struggle,

and what a guerilla army is.

Because that time the slogan was,
"Disarm the enemy and arm the people."

I joined
the Mandela Football Club there.

At that time, I thought that
it was just a football club.

But when times go on,
I saw that these guys are...

are cadres of Umkhonto we Sizwe.

There were about eight guys

guarding the house
and the family of Winnie.

There were track suits that we wear
of Mandela FC.

But when time goes on, we saw that

people now are crying
about Mandela Football Club.

We found that people
were using our track suits

to rape and kill sometimes.

They kill people and say,
"Yes, Winnie’s boys."

They thought it’s us.

So we stopped using our uniforms.

Oh, you couldn’t communicate
with them at all.

They said they were
waiting for Protea because

the boys were wearing illegal t-shirts
or some kind of rubbish like that.

We were not allowed
by Mama to interrogate someone.

But us, in our corners, we were doing it

to get the information,
who’s working for the security branch...

for the enemy side.

It was 1989.

I was still with
the Intelligence Section.

And President PW Botha said,

"We must come up with
a psychological warfare strategy

against the enemy."

Everything was coordinated
between the defense force,

national intelligence,
and foreign affairs.

It was called
Covert Strategic Communication.

STRATCOM.

We are being agitated against worldwide

and threatened in the name of freedom
and liberation.

Pressure is being exerted on us
as the arch-oppressors of our time.

Many of the methods involved are suspect

because of either the slyness
or the dishonesty involved.

I had different projects
approved by him.

One was Operation Romulus.

Now, Romulus was, uh,

counter-revolutionary.

So Winnie Mandela
fell amongst... those people.

I already had about 40 journalists
working directly or indirectly for me.

So through them,
I could have specific reports

placed in newspapers,
and it would be front-page.

Four members
of the football club were arrested

in a raid on Winnie Mandela’s house
on Sunday.

Police gathered all their possessions
in a detailed search for evidence.

Stompie Moeketsi was kidnapped
by the so-called Football Squad.

Stompie, suspected
of being a police informer,

was later murdered.

The charges
will add to growing controversy

about the Football Club bodyguards.

Throughout the eight-hour operation,

Winnie Mandela had cooperated fully
with the police,

though she insisted that the boys
had nothing to do

with the murder of 14-year-old
Stompie Moeketsi on Sunday.

The kind of reporting we have seen,

the deliberate and mischievous lies
that keep being perpetrated by the media

is beyond anything we have seen.

A political funeral with a difference.

Just this once, the South African
government allowed full news coverage,

normally banned under the emergency,
and kept police out of sight,

all because the murder
of 14-year-old Stompie Moeketsi

is blamed not on the state

but on the bodyguards
of Winnie Mandela.

Police imposed
no restrictions at this funeral,

raising accusations they’re trying
to exploit Stompie’s killing

and deepen divisions among blacks.

Plainclothed police
with cameras watched from a distance,

but authorities made no move
to interfere.

His murder has outraged
many South Africans,

sparking divisions within
the anti-Apartheid movement.

Many black activists are refusing
to back Mrs. Mandela

and have severed all ties with her.

The Mass Democratic Movement
at this point

hereby wishes to distance itself
from Mrs. Mandela and her actions.

Throughout the town,
graffiti were scrawled on billboards,

charging Winnie Mandela
with involvement in Stompie’s murder.

There’s no rift whatsoever
between the African National Congress

and this family and never will be.

Perhaps the idea is to so destabilize

the political situation
in black communities

that the government simply sits back

and look at us fighting
amongst each other,

discrediting each other
dividing each other, and, uh,

and it would suit the government
to release Comrade Mandela

in that political atmosphere.

Many people to this day believe
that we tried to divide and rule.

The whole notion
is not historically correct.

She had all the capacity
to be a Jackie Kennedy.

And, you know, even from
the intelligence service side,

we discussed and hoped
and dreamed, even...

that she must play a responsible role

at the side of Nelson Mandela.

He will become president,
she will be first lady,

the mother of the nation, so to speak,

and we will all be

working together in this new--
this new country.

Sadly, that was not to be.

I’m now in a position
to announce that Mr. Nelson Mandela

will be released
at the Victor Verster prison

on Sunday the 11th of February,
at about 3:00 p.m.

Perhaps this is the moment...

to thank the organizations...

individuals, groups, governments,

and all those
who have campaigned for this day.

There is a clear sign of movement.

This is the hour
the world has been waiting for.

There’s Mr. Mandela,
Mr. Nelson Mandela,

a free man, taking his first steps
into a new South Africa.

Mrs. Winnie Mandela next to him
waving to the crowds.

Hand in hand...

they leave the Victor Verster prison.

Officials, marshals
of the National Reception Committee

trying to get the people--

and a salute from Mr. Nelson Mandela.

His wife, Winnie, greeting the people

outside the fences
of the Victor Verster prison.

That is the man
who the world has been waiting to see.

People running alongside the car.

In many ways,

when he was in prison,

Mandela was looking at the world
through Winnie’s eyes,

because she brought back
information to him.

He in turn trusted her with information

he really didn’t trust
anybody else with.

And so that moment of him
seeing this new world

into which he’s released through
Winnie’s eyes is so poignant.

Prior to his release,

I would say about ten days
before his release,

I had one of my last discussions
with him,

and I told him,
"Sir, may I give you some advice?

The first speech after your release,
the world will be looking.

Please don’t make
one of those long, struggle,

slogan, ideological speeches.

Do not fall back to apartheid
and whatever happened wrong,

and "you will carry on with
the struggle" and so forth and so on.

Be brief, say, 'Here we are.

We’re carrying on to make peace.
Thank you for everybody.

You will understand that I’m tired now,'
and things like that.

Just-- you will have
your time for speeches."

That was not to be.

- Amandla!
- Ewutu!

- Amandla!
- Ewetu!

- I-Afrika!
- Mayibuye!

- Mayibuye!
- I-Afrika!

The point when he’s on the balcony

making his first speech,
as a free man,

but reading what he had written
with Winnie’s glasses,

because he had misplaced his own
is so symbolic

of Winnie’s role in Mandela’s life
for so long.

The factors which necessitated
the armed struggle

still exist today!

- We have no option...
- I was with my family...

- ...but to continue.
- ...watching it.

At that moment,
I had already started calling

some of our sources, asking them,
"What the hell is going on?"

Because I was sitting there and--
what is going on?

What we’ve been working on
can develop into a catastrophe.

What of course was really sad

is that Mandela did not specifically
talk about Winnie’s role

in the time that he was in prison.

For many people, it was an oversight.

He should have given Winnie
the recognition that she deserved,

at least alluded to the fact
that he would not have been there

had it not been for her
and her ceaseless work

and organizing and her suffering

and everything that she sacrificed
in order to get him there.

I was horrified when I realized
that I had lost my identity.

And suddenly I was nobody.

Mandela’s wife.

I’m absolutely excited to be out.

We are loyal and disciplined members
of the organization.

It is my intention

to go to Lusaka at the earliest
possible convenience.

They will tell me
what role I should play.

When people on the ground
know who their leaders are,

there’s nothing
that you can do successfully

to alter that relationship,

because that is genuine,
and that is real,

and that is historically--
historically strong.

I think they were too formidable.

I think together as a couple,

they were just too powerful
as a couple.

You've got these people who--
who are so influential

within their communities and beyond,

they have impacted,
and they’re together,

and they have this ability to see things
from two different perspectives

but wanting the same thing,
for the same objective.

I just think it was too much power
to have as a couple,

and I think there were various people
who felt threatened by this.

And for anybody who had an agenda,

they had to get rid of this.

They had to get rid
of this solid foundation first

and then proceed.

Nelson Mandela got a rousing welcome
from the city of New York today,

as he began a ten-day tour
across the United States.

The former longtime political prisoner
will address Congress

and the United Nations, and he’ll be
received at the White House.

I made a documentary film

through the South African
Broadcasting Corporation.

Of course, I had all the friends there.

And we put all the material together,

and that I flogged into America,

and it was shown
on 40 different channels.

And that led to her being declared
an international terrorist.

And when she wanted
to visit America with him,

Americans said, "No, you can’t come,
because you’re still on our list.

So they had to delete her name
specially for her to come.

It is true.

I am much angrier than him.

It is true I have personally found it
very, very difficult

to believe in the sincerity...

of the ruling class, the Afrikaner.

I do battle with myself
about believing their sincerity.

As far as I’m concerned,
we will watch that negotiation table.

If anything goes wrong there,

I will be the first
to go back to the bush,

take up arms, and fight
the South African government.

Mandela had gone
to an emergency meeting

of the African National Congress
to discuss black factional violence,

when the government
filed charges against his wife.

At the courthouse, a strong show
of support for the Mandelas.

The government has claimed
the charges against Winnie Mandela

are not politically motivated.

The case involves
14-year-old Stompie Sepei.

Today Winnie Mandela was formally
charged with kidnapping and assault

in the death of a teenager allegedly
murdered by her bodyguards.

The government arrested
Mrs. Mandela’s bodyguard,

convicted him of murder, and last month
sentenced him to death.

It’s taken authorities
nearly two years to charge her,

and many in the black community
suspect that the government

may be using their case
to harm the Mandelas

and the African National Congress.

That was the intention of apartheid--

to break things down,
to break down family units,

to fragmentize anything
that was black unity.

That was the purpose.

So in many ways, they succeeded
in creating some kind of division.

So then they tried to pitch my parents
like the saint and the sinner.

And you’re thinking like,
what even gives you the right?

It was a period of ambivalence.

The return of the exiles,

which is what she was tasked to do
by the ANC.

This was now the beginning
of the negotiations

and the doubts as to whether
this was the real thing or not.

The ANC was making critical choices

about compromises
it was prepared to make

and the path
it was setting the country on.

And what was dominant
in the ANC was a kind of

centrist, middle-of-the road
preparedness

to concede a great deal
and to make the deals both with

Afrikaner nationalism
and with global capitalism.

I personally feel
that we over-negotiated in CODESA,

Because we found that capital--
capitalism

is a very difficult system,

because the owners of production...

the owners of resources,
are those who are in power.

There was a very important constituency

led by the likes of Chris Hani,
in which Winnie was a critical figure,

who were arguing against
too much compromise,

against that middle-of-the road path

and looking for a socialist
transformation.

The ANC leadership
were looking to manage her,

contain her as part of the attempt
to contain those left-wing forces.

The incident with
Stompie Sepei and Jerry Richardson

is symptomatic of what happened
with Winnie throughout her life.

With all the informers
that had been planted who changed

their testimony by 180 degrees in court,
what exactly was the truth?

They had testified
that she hadn’t been there.

Then they changed their minds
and said that she had been there.

How could anybody have really
come to a reliable verdict

with all that murkiness
around that case?

For anti-apartheid groups
in South Africa,

scenes like these
are a cause for despair.

In areas of the Natal Province,
black-on-black violence

has reached proportions
of near civil war

as political factions wage
running battles for control

of the local black townships.

It was a critical period
in the interim between 1990 and ’94,

where the balance of power
was being played out.

The apartheid government
in its negotiations

was trying to elevate the status

of the Inkhata Freedom Party
as an alternative,

as a counter to the ANC.

The biggest obstacle of all now
to the liberation of South Africa

and to the sorting out of things
in South Africa is caused

by this black-on-black violence,

because even if the whites
were prepared to negotiate tomorrow,

I mean, we blacks are still busy
butchering each other.

There was a high and dangerous
level of black-on-black violence

that threatened to destabilize
the whole transition process.

It was not really
black-on-black violence

but government-instigated or supported
or encouraged attempts

to weaken and undermine the ANC
as its chief negotiating partner.

I actually said to Madiba at one point,

"We know these people.

We fought against them
not only politically,

not on platforms,
we fought them physically.

We know each other.

We know each other so well
that we cannot trust

the apartheid state forming
any government of unity with you."

It is quite clear

that the government has either
lost control over the police,

or the police are doing
what the government wants them to do.

I take very strong exception

to the alleged statement
attributed to Mr. Mandela

to the effect that I am seeking
to promote my cause

over the corpses of his supporters.

Nelson Mandela is under siege,

his search for a peaceful end
to apartheid in jeopardy,

and now his wife’s prosecution

threatening to further damage
the Mandela name.

I have never believed...

that she was guilty
of assaulting anyone.

It was not some façade.

I think he believed deep down
in his whole being,

as we all did, that this was
part of a wider conspiracy

aimed at her but also aimed at him.

Nelson Mandela, borne by
the dignity of his moral crusade

but tainted now by the woman he loves
and cannot bring himself to criticize.

But, as ever,
unbowed, she’ll now appeal,

and as ever,
with the full support of her husband.

Strategic communications is the planned,

coordinated, presentation of a message

by means of various
communication instruments

to change attitudes, values,
and to reach national objectives.

When it comes to Winnie Mandela,

we were more concentrating
on her personal life,

which was in tatters,

and so easily...

to see and to hear and to expose.

So many people would read it,
and it’s not going to cost us a cent.

That was the purpose, my purpose.

I was given that letter by Nelson...

who was given it

by the editor of the Sunday Times.

I had to go to Winnie and ask her
whether it was genuine or not.

She looked at it...

burst into tears...

and said she was betrayed.

Obviously, it was some witch hunt

which was meant to isolate her.

There was even then a--
a clear campaign

to delegitimize, as it were,
the so-called radical wing of the ANC.

Mandela was given the ultimatum

to divorce Winnie, to, in fact,
get rid of Winnie or be president.

That was the ANC leadership
who decided on that.

In view of the tensions that have arisen
owing to differences between ourselves

in a number of issues
in recent months...

we have mutually agreed

that a separation would be best
for each one of us

You know, Mummy wouldn’t make it seem
like she suffered that much.

But that’s the thing,
Mummy’s just always had that capacity,

you know, to die inside, you know,

and, like, just be beaming
and glowing externally.

She’s just always been that person.

I was at home when Chris was killed.

Chris Hani
was shot four times in the driveway

of his own home in a quiet
Johannesburg suburb, Dawn Park.

I do not know how one puts

the degrees of hurt and...

a feeling of total helplessness,
a feeling of despair.

It was so clear that it was
a very complicated assassination.

You couldn’t attribute it
to the enemy completely.

85,000 South Africans
pay homage to a revolutionary.

ANC leader Chris Hani
received a statesman’s funeral.

When he was killed,

one of the hopes of the country
was gone.

Here was a man who had led

the military wing
of the African National Congress.

We literally worshipped Chris Hani.

We dreamt of a South Africa
where he would be president one day.

Those who have deliberately
created this climate

that legitimates political assassination

are as much responsible
for the death of Chris Hani

as the man who pulled the trigger.

We want an election date now!

After Chris Hani was assassinated,

the country was in flames.

Winnie’s appeal came up
barely three months later.

There would have been
enormous violence

if Winnie had been sent to prison.

I don’t think any court
would at that point

have thought it prudent
to deny her appeal.

One candidate
who could be a problem for the ANC,

particularly in attracting
moderate voters, is Winnie Mandela.

Her overwhelming popularity
in the townships has put her

number five on the ANC list,

and she’ll almost certainly
become a cabinet minister.

I never went away.
I’ve always been with my people.

That is why they have spoken.

My political aspirations
have never changed.

I’m where I belong--

the parliament of the people.

I’ve been put there
by the masses of this country.

I have never stood for a position

and said, "I’m available! I’m available!

Elect me as president
of the Women’s League."

No, I’ve never done that.

She had already made it quite clear
that she didn’t see eye to eye

with Mandela and the ANC
about much of the policies,

that she leaned towards
a more socialistic state,

that she wouldn’t have
bent over backwards

to accommodate the former rulers
and oppressors, etcetera.

So they needed to isolate her
to eliminate her

from the inner circle of the ANC.

It is the realization

of our hopes and dreams...

that we have cherished over decades.

It was all a question of the ANC

understanding Winnie’s power,
understanding how easily

she could mobilize ground root support.

There’s no question in my mind that,
had she been embraced by the ANC,

had they made her part
of the inner circle,

she would’ve been deputy president,

and she would have been president
after Mandela.

That’s then I felt triumphant.

After such a bitter struggle...

after losing so much blood,
after losing almost everything we had...

our children, our uncles, our aunts...

That moment is indescribable.

When he became president,
and Winnie was not even seated

with the VIP guests,
it was just heartbreaking

that Mandela would not allow her
to even be seen

as a very important person
on that occasion.

And one understands that his ego
had been injured by Winnie.

However,
he was always so fair to everybody.

One would expect
of somebody of that stature

to be able to overcome that.

If he could forgive other people for
such terrible transgressions against him

and against the country and his family,
he could have done that for Winnie.

I had achieved everything I fought for.

What more did I want?
I didn’t care for this.

It was just like water on a duck’s back.
It still is, to this day.

As long as he would be
president of the country

and lead the people to liberation,
that’s all that mattered to me.

Never... never...

and never again

shall it be that this beautiful land
will again experience

the oppression of one by another.

I realized that

there was this huge program,

that I became a project
to certain people.

I became a project to prepare Madiba
for this presidency.

There had to be
all kinds of hangers-on around him

who continued this program
of discrediting me.

Madiba was safer without me
because I would always see through

the political intricacies
of their plans.

During 1994, I received a phone call

from the commissioner
of the South African police service

that I must come to his office

because the Minister of Safety
and Security want to see me.

He told us that he was a member
of the executive committee

of the ANC during those times,

and that we must start a--
re-start the investigation

into all the cases
against Winnie Mandela.

And we must start
from Stompie Sepei right through

and try to get evidence
that Winnie can be charged for murder.

I think there was some
political motivation behind him

because the Minister
is the political head of the police,

and I thought that the ANC,
through Sidney Mufamadi,

were behind the request
to re-investigate Winnie Mandela.

So we started this whole investigation.

We went to Jerry Richardson in prison.

He was serving a life sentence
for the killing of Stompie Sepei.

And there he told me Stompie found out

he was a registered informer
of the security branch in Soweto.

So he killed Stompie Sepei
to cover his own tracks,

and Winnie Mandela must never find out
that he was a registered informer.

The Minister gave us carte blanche
money-wise, logistic-wise,

and we can travel through the world
where we need to go.

And there was a South African citizen
closely involved with Winnie Mandela

in the custody of a British MP.

He lived in her house and so on.

Watching this,
what was in your heart?

Katiza Khebukulu
has since become famous.

He was the central character
in a book and a BBC documentary.

He was rescued by British baroness
Emma Nicholson,

who has since taken him under her wing.

She should go down for life.

They’re not going to forget.

That evidence is going to be theirs.

But you will find
that the book also contains

very significant material

on the events that surround
his testimony.

I mean, it was a very clear portrayal

of demonizing somebody
who spent the rest of her life

trying to liberate South Africa.

And it was very clear that, uh,

its orientation
was to delegitimize her,

make her look like a criminal
and a hater.

I have watched in painful silence

my character being butchered
in the media.

I have witnessed my contribution
to this democracy

being vilified and ridiculed.

South Africa, I ask:

is it public interest
that my name is littered

all over the streets of this country?

That the media vandalize my dignity
without just cause?

Order, please.

We are here not in order
to put anyone in the dock.

Our objective is to find out the truth

in order to assist in the process
of healing our land...

to promote reconciliation,
and to ensure that the awful things

we hear about will not happen again.

From the word go,
the charges started piling up.

The first day’s witnesses implicated
Madikizela Mandela

in four serious assaults
and six murders.

To me, the TRC was a trial.

It was not established to--

to find out anything other
than the fact that I was being re-tried,

being humiliated to show
that I was not fit to be his wife.

The first day of the hearing
was a huge surprise because

I hadn’t anticipated such a wide
international interest in her story.

The allegations that
were coming out were serious.

They were of a criminal kind, and yet,
there was no criminal investigation

in relation to those issues.

They were there in a platform
that enjoyed international attention.

And there was no way her image

was not going to be marred
by that process.

Katiza Cebukhulu
says he saw Madikizela Mandela

stab Stompie
with a shiny object one night.

It was something that was shining.

After the hand was raised
for the first time, did you see what--

She was stabbing.
She stabbed twice.

It was obvious that
one was also dealing with witnesses

whose credibility was questionable
but whose motives were clear.

They wanted money, and in exchange,

they were going to say anything
and everything against Winnie.

I do not have any police friends.

I did know a lot of police,
but I was not friends with them.

On Tuesday,
the so-called coach of the football club

and the man who was convicted
of killing Stompie Sepei,

Jerry Richardson, will testify.

He has said that he killed Stompie Sepei
on the orders of Winnie.

I slaughtered him.

I slaughtered him like a goat.

But Jerry Richardson’s credibility
as a witness was undermined this week

when he confessed to being
a police informer.

Richardson was in prison by that time.

He may have been promised

that they will help him somehow.

They knew I didn’t kill Stompie.

I was being tried just as a farce.

I was the only one
in the African National Congress

who was taken to the TRC
by her own government.

The only one.

I thought they were criminalizing her

so that they can
politically neutralize her.

Is there an opinion
by a section of our country

about the nomination of yourself

to the deputy presidency of the African
National Congress in December?

Yes, that is true.

As a matter of fact,
as far as I was concerned,

the subpoena could have been
served last year,

could have been served
many, many moons ago,

and the unhealthy coincidence
in my mind...

that this must happen...

a few days
before the national conference...

to me suggests
it is part and parcel of that agenda.

The whole perception of reconciliation

was gotten completely wrong,
because it has been misinterpreted

in terms of what it was supposed
to achieve.

Then Winnie Mandela becomes demonized
because she remains

the voice of the downtrodden
and the conscience of the people,

that voice that says
we were not treated right,

and we’re still not being treated right.

That’s the reality.

I speak to you as someone
who loves you very deeply...

who loves your family
very, very, deeply.

I would have said to you,
"Let us have a public meeting...

and at that public meeting for you
to stand up and say,

‘There are things that went wrong.

There are things that went wrong...

and I...

I don’t know why they went wrong.’

And say, ‘I’m sorry.

I’m sorry for my part...
in what went wrong.’"

I was seething with rage.

To this day...

I ask God to forgive me...

for not forgiving him.

He was acting there for the public...

acting there for STRATCOM...

begging me to say I was sorry?

I beg you.

I beg you.

- I wasn’t going to say sorry...
- I beg you.

...as if I had been responsible
for apartheid.

I mean, how dare? Really!

You are a great person...

and you don’t know how your greatness
would be enhanced...

if you were to say, "Sorry.

Things went wrong. Forgive me."

I beg you.

The one person

who kept the fires burning
when everybody was petrified--

and I didn’t blame them,
because of those

dark forces of apartheid
were killing our people like flies.

I didn’t blame them

when sometimes
I would shoot that fist alone,

and they were too petrified.

You put me on trial before the TRC,

and a Desmond Tutu
sits there judging me.

Judging me!

For the first 20 years, it was accepted

that compromises were made,
that deals were made,

and that they had to be made,

and that worked for the better
of everyone because it gave us

what’s loosely called
a peaceful transition.

But now you are very clearly seeing
young people saying, "But hold on.

The reason we still have
so much inequality,

the reason we are so frustrated
in our attempts to study

and advance and change our lives
and change our children’s lives

is because of those compromises
you made in the 1990s.

I think the way it is going
to end in South Africa is that

people like Winnie Mandela
will be vindicated.

There will come a time
where history will remember

that some of the skepticism that
they had about the so-called miracle

of the solution that was found
in the ’90s was justified.

I think already people
are beginning to wonder

whether we were not sold a dummy,
as it were, that the deal was one-sided,

and that the racist regime
got away with murder, literally.

To this day,

when I sit in Parliament,

every time I press that blue button,

I’m constricted with pain.

Did it take so much loss of life,
so much blood,

in order for me to vote?

It cost us so much.

And it continues to cost us so much.

We dreamt of a South Africa...

that was totally free of racialism...

a South Africa where everyone...

would be fed equally...

where youth would be employed...

where the scarce resources
would have been available

for the dreams we instilled in them.

The Freedom Charter says the wealth
of the country

belongs to all who live in it.

That is a South Africa
I would have loved to leave one day.