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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:06,750 --> 00:00:08,083 -(AUDIO FEEDBACK) -(CLICK) 2 00:00:08,166 --> 00:00:11,041 DISPATCHER: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE ON TAPE) 3 00:00:11,417 --> 00:00:13,417 -MOHAMMED: -DISPATCHER: 4 00:00:13,583 --> 00:00:16,041 MAN: (YELLING) 5 00:00:18,667 --> 00:00:20,458 (SINGING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) 6 00:00:21,959 --> 00:00:23,917 MAN 2: 7 00:00:24,208 --> 00:00:26,125 DETECTIVE: 8 00:00:26,875 --> 00:00:29,625 -(SINGING CONTINUES) -DETECTIVE: 9 00:00:34,375 --> 00:00:37,083 (SINGING CONCLUDES) 10 00:00:39,250 --> 00:00:41,417 -♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ -(PROTESTERS CHANTING) 11 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:43,750 -(PHONE RINGS) -FATHER: (SPEAKING ARABIC) 12 00:00:45,875 --> 00:00:48,083 (CHANTING AMPLIFIES) 13 00:00:48,709 --> 00:00:49,959 FATHER: 14 00:00:51,083 --> 00:00:52,875 ♪ (INTENSE MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 15 00:00:52,959 --> 00:00:54,500 FATHER: 16 00:00:56,458 --> 00:00:59,166 MAN 2: 17 00:00:59,959 --> 00:01:01,500 DETECTIVE: 18 00:01:10,917 --> 00:01:12,583 DETECTIVE: 19 00:01:15,583 --> 00:01:17,583 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 20 00:01:43,083 --> 00:01:47,166 ( soft violin music ) 21 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:51,959 ( man speaking English ) 22 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:04,875 This is James Wright Foley, 23 00:02:04,959 --> 00:02:07,542 an American citizen of your country. 24 00:02:10,125 --> 00:02:12,583 The Foley video, partly the image, 25 00:02:12,667 --> 00:02:15,625 but even more the voice of his captor 26 00:02:15,709 --> 00:02:18,875 was really shocking because it was so clearly 27 00:02:18,959 --> 00:02:21,542 a British London accent. 28 00:02:21,625 --> 00:02:24,458 Man: The way that he spoke into the camera, his demeanor, 29 00:02:24,542 --> 00:02:27,458 his accent, we'd never seen anything like this before. 30 00:02:27,542 --> 00:02:31,709 We then obviously had a race to find out who he was. 31 00:02:31,792 --> 00:02:35,792 His size, his hands, but above all his voice 32 00:02:35,875 --> 00:02:38,834 made identifying him quite easy. 33 00:02:38,917 --> 00:02:40,250 It was very distinctive, 34 00:02:40,333 --> 00:02:42,250 and within hours we had a name 35 00:02:42,333 --> 00:02:45,208 for that individual, Mohammed Emwazi. 36 00:02:45,291 --> 00:02:47,583 Mohammed Emwazi: You are no longer fighting an insurgency, 37 00:02:47,667 --> 00:02:51,250 we are an Islamic army and a state. 38 00:02:51,333 --> 00:02:54,291 Woman: You saw a masked man with a knife, 39 00:02:54,375 --> 00:02:58,166 and he sent this message that the Islamic State was here, 40 00:02:58,250 --> 00:03:00,667 it was not Al-Qaeda, everyone knew about Al-Qaeda, 41 00:03:00,750 --> 00:03:03,834 but ISIS, Al-Baghdadi, these guys were different, 42 00:03:03,917 --> 00:03:05,792 they were this new brand. 43 00:03:05,875 --> 00:03:09,083 Man: The Islamic State could not have planned it any better, 44 00:03:09,166 --> 00:03:12,500 if there was one thing that I think contributed 45 00:03:12,583 --> 00:03:16,875 to the rise of his fame and the expansion of his own message, 46 00:03:16,959 --> 00:03:20,000 was the fact that the international news media 47 00:03:20,083 --> 00:03:22,041 called him "Jihadi John." 48 00:03:22,125 --> 00:03:25,500 Man 2: Jihadi John, he knows that we're coming after him, 49 00:03:25,583 --> 00:03:29,417 he went to great lengths to prevent being captured. 50 00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:30,750 He didn't want to get captured, 51 00:03:30,834 --> 00:03:32,458 he didn't want to get killed. 52 00:03:32,542 --> 00:03:34,667 How did you go from this conservative, 53 00:03:34,750 --> 00:03:38,625 sports-loving teenager to somebody who's splashed 54 00:03:38,709 --> 00:03:42,542 with the arterial blood of the men he's beheading? 55 00:03:42,625 --> 00:03:45,208 This is not just a subtle transformation, 56 00:03:45,291 --> 00:03:49,291 this is literally going from nothing 57 00:03:49,375 --> 00:03:53,083 to everything with little in between. 58 00:03:57,959 --> 00:04:00,959 ( soft violin music ) 59 00:04:07,166 --> 00:04:09,959 ( bombs exploding ) 60 00:04:34,625 --> 00:04:37,333 ( bomb exploding ) 61 00:04:40,125 --> 00:04:42,959 ( bomb exploding ) 62 00:05:01,166 --> 00:05:03,625 Woman: Mohammed Emwazi, he had an interesting journey, 63 00:05:03,709 --> 00:05:07,000 but not one that's particularly different to other people. 64 00:05:07,083 --> 00:05:09,333 He started off in Kuwait 65 00:05:09,417 --> 00:05:12,458 where his family were a persecuted minority. 66 00:05:12,542 --> 00:05:14,458 They were known as the Bedoon tribe 67 00:05:14,542 --> 00:05:17,375 with people who were not recognized nationally 68 00:05:17,458 --> 00:05:19,375 by the Kuwaiti government. 69 00:05:19,458 --> 00:05:22,583 Man: His father was more successful than most Bedoon 70 00:05:22,667 --> 00:05:24,834 because his father was a police officer 71 00:05:24,917 --> 00:05:27,750 and his mother was a Yemeni. 72 00:05:27,834 --> 00:05:31,000 So, the Emwazis, like lots of Bedoon, 73 00:05:31,083 --> 00:05:32,417 were considering where to go 74 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:34,500 in terms of escaping the persecution, 75 00:05:34,583 --> 00:05:36,166 and they'd heard good stories about London. 76 00:05:36,250 --> 00:05:39,583 So the Emwazis with little Mohammed in 1993, 77 00:05:39,667 --> 00:05:42,667 when he was about six years old, packed their bags 78 00:05:42,750 --> 00:05:44,083 and headed for London. 79 00:05:44,166 --> 00:05:48,208 And they were then subsequently given asylum in the UK. 80 00:05:48,291 --> 00:05:51,166 Robert Verkaik: They moved into a small flat in Maida Vale. 81 00:05:51,250 --> 00:05:55,000 His father, Jassem, he began work as a cab driver 82 00:05:55,083 --> 00:05:57,250 and they began to build a family. 83 00:05:57,333 --> 00:05:59,667 For Mohammed, his first school 84 00:05:59,750 --> 00:06:01,917 was a Church of England primary school. 85 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,583 Dr. Emman El-Badawy: And Emwazi spent his life growing up 86 00:06:04,667 --> 00:06:07,333 as somebody who I guess was always wondering 87 00:06:07,417 --> 00:06:08,875 about his identity, 88 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:12,125 someone who's family had to leave their home country 89 00:06:12,208 --> 00:06:13,625 because of their identity, 90 00:06:13,709 --> 00:06:16,166 and then subsequently trying to figure out 91 00:06:16,250 --> 00:06:20,208 how he fits into this new society in the heart of the UK. 92 00:06:20,291 --> 00:06:22,625 Verkaik: He supported Manchester United, 93 00:06:22,709 --> 00:06:25,542 but he also liked pop groups like S Club 7. 94 00:06:25,625 --> 00:06:27,875 ♪ There's people try to put your down ♪ 95 00:06:27,959 --> 00:06:30,083 ♪ Just walk on by, don't turn around ♪ 96 00:06:30,166 --> 00:06:35,333 ♪ You only have to answer to yourself ♪ 97 00:06:35,417 --> 00:06:37,500 Verkaik: In his year book at primary school 98 00:06:37,583 --> 00:06:38,917 he said his big dream was to be 99 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:40,625 a Manchester United football player. 100 00:06:40,709 --> 00:06:41,792 It's all he wanted to do. 101 00:06:44,625 --> 00:06:48,959 Woman: Mohammed was in year 10 when I started as Head. 102 00:06:49,041 --> 00:06:53,417 He wasn't a particularly noticeable young person. 103 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:57,250 ( children chattering ) 104 00:06:57,333 --> 00:07:01,542 Woman 2: I met Mohammed through teaching English for about a year, 105 00:07:01,625 --> 00:07:03,750 so I didn't teach him for very long, 106 00:07:03,834 --> 00:07:06,500 but the family I grew to know really well 107 00:07:06,583 --> 00:07:09,917 because his younger sister was then in my next year group. 108 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:14,417 He wasn't vocal, he wasn't particularly aggressive, 109 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:16,875 he was just a kind of, like a passenger. 110 00:07:16,959 --> 00:07:19,125 I always see Mohammed as like a passenger. 111 00:07:19,208 --> 00:07:22,750 He was much more of a follower than he was a leader. 112 00:07:22,834 --> 00:07:26,917 He kind of hunched and tried to make eye contact with me. 113 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,667 He found that difficult. 114 00:07:31,083 --> 00:07:34,625 He often walked around covering his mouth 115 00:07:34,709 --> 00:07:38,291 and sometimes some young boys would tease him 116 00:07:38,375 --> 00:07:40,583 about his breath, but that was, I think, 117 00:07:40,667 --> 00:07:42,709 it was more of an insecurity for him. 118 00:07:42,792 --> 00:07:45,667 Verkaik: If kids starting baiting him about his breath, he'd react. 119 00:07:45,750 --> 00:07:47,458 They'd start ganging up on him 120 00:07:47,542 --> 00:07:49,667 and they knew which buttons to press with Emwazi. 121 00:07:49,750 --> 00:07:53,041 It just shows how kind of vulnerable he was. 122 00:07:53,125 --> 00:07:54,792 He was slightly strange. 123 00:07:54,875 --> 00:07:56,417 I wouldn't say he was a misfit. 124 00:07:56,500 --> 00:07:58,625 I think that's probably a bit too pejorative, 125 00:07:58,709 --> 00:08:00,792 but I think he wasn't necessarily sure 126 00:08:00,875 --> 00:08:02,583 exactly where he fitted in. 127 00:08:02,667 --> 00:08:05,792 On the playing field where the boys would play football, 128 00:08:05,875 --> 00:08:07,834 I remember one time I confiscated the ball 129 00:08:07,917 --> 00:08:11,125 because I was being hit every second. 130 00:08:11,208 --> 00:08:12,792 At one point, Mohammed was nearby, 131 00:08:12,875 --> 00:08:13,917 and I kind of looked at him. 132 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,125 "Wasn't me miss." 133 00:08:15,208 --> 00:08:16,709 I said, "Okay, just move on." 134 00:08:16,792 --> 00:08:18,625 He wasn't argumentative, he wasn't rude, 135 00:08:18,709 --> 00:08:20,250 he wasn't aggressive. 136 00:08:20,333 --> 00:08:25,917 He just was very pliable, he just would... just be. 137 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,125 ( speaking in foreign language ) 138 00:08:31,208 --> 00:08:32,834 Have you finished every level? 139 00:08:32,917 --> 00:08:33,917 Sorry. 140 00:08:36,583 --> 00:08:38,250 ( speaking in foreign language ) 141 00:08:38,333 --> 00:08:39,834 Claudia Giarruso: But the few occasions 142 00:08:39,917 --> 00:08:41,709 I would take the class into the computer room, 143 00:08:41,792 --> 00:08:44,542 Mohammed would gravitate to those computers. 144 00:08:44,625 --> 00:08:46,875 He would love to be in the computer room 145 00:08:46,959 --> 00:08:49,667 and it's almost like he came alive 146 00:08:49,750 --> 00:08:51,583 when he was in front of a screen. 147 00:08:51,667 --> 00:08:54,875 In away it was kind of a world that he could escape to. 148 00:09:02,834 --> 00:09:05,750 Man: I think it is useful to begin at the beginning, 149 00:09:05,834 --> 00:09:10,458 you know, where did ISIS actually begin? 150 00:09:10,542 --> 00:09:12,667 El-Badawy: Prior to 2010, 151 00:09:12,750 --> 00:09:17,041 no one knew who this guy called Al-Badri was. 152 00:09:17,125 --> 00:09:20,667 He was this unassuming individual brought up in Samarra, 153 00:09:20,750 --> 00:09:22,458 east of the Tigris in Iraq, 154 00:09:22,542 --> 00:09:25,542 and he buried himself in religious text and scripture. 155 00:09:25,625 --> 00:09:27,625 He was obsessed with the debates 156 00:09:27,709 --> 00:09:30,709 and disputes around the contemporary called jihad. 157 00:09:30,792 --> 00:09:33,542 He was essentially a bookworm. 158 00:09:33,625 --> 00:09:37,417 Al-Badri later changed his name to Al-Baghdadi. 159 00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:40,875 But he'd also come into contact in the early 2000s 160 00:09:40,959 --> 00:09:46,125 with a notorious member of Al-Qaeda called Zarqawi. 161 00:09:46,208 --> 00:09:48,500 ( speaking in foreign language ) 162 00:09:48,583 --> 00:09:54,250 Zarqawi, a very effective, charismatic, superior leader. 163 00:09:54,333 --> 00:09:59,250 Zarqawi was a master of the management of violence. 164 00:09:59,333 --> 00:10:01,792 - ( gun exploding ) - ( bombs exploding ) 165 00:10:01,875 --> 00:10:04,750 So he led the insurgency against the coalition 166 00:10:04,834 --> 00:10:08,375 and Zarqawi ended up pioneering the business model 167 00:10:08,458 --> 00:10:09,875 of suicide bombers. 168 00:10:09,959 --> 00:10:15,083 - ( bombs exploding ) - ( sirens whirring ) 169 00:10:15,166 --> 00:10:18,792 And with the Islamist views that Al-Baghdadi had developed, 170 00:10:18,875 --> 00:10:22,250 combined with the views that Zarqawi communicated, 171 00:10:22,333 --> 00:10:24,625 he became incredibly influenced. 172 00:10:24,709 --> 00:10:27,792 Baghdadi was well placed to network and recruit 173 00:10:27,875 --> 00:10:32,542 for Al-Qaeda and particularly Zarqawi's version of Al-Qaeda. 174 00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:38,333 And so, I see a distinct difference between the two. 175 00:10:38,417 --> 00:10:42,625 Zarqawi had a plan and he ruthlessly executed that plan, 176 00:10:42,709 --> 00:10:47,709 whereas Al-Baghdadi had a vision for what he wanted to do 177 00:10:47,792 --> 00:10:51,250 and a vision has a longer-term timeline 178 00:10:51,333 --> 00:10:55,667 and it has a broader set of aspirations and expectations. 179 00:11:01,166 --> 00:11:04,375 ( upbeat techno music ) 180 00:11:13,208 --> 00:11:15,875 ( train whirling ) 181 00:11:18,917 --> 00:11:22,291 As Emwazi progresses through his teenage years 182 00:11:22,375 --> 00:11:24,834 he's drinking, his friends say he loves clubbing, 183 00:11:24,917 --> 00:11:26,500 he's smoking cannabis. 184 00:11:26,583 --> 00:11:30,208 He's got a reputation for being a bit of a party animal. 185 00:11:33,041 --> 00:11:35,959 Shuter: So, my perception of him once he got into the sixth form, 186 00:11:36,041 --> 00:11:38,625 and he-- obviously he wanted to go to university, 187 00:11:38,709 --> 00:11:42,417 but he did become less willing to fit in. 188 00:11:42,500 --> 00:11:45,583 The level of defiance in him grew, 189 00:11:45,667 --> 00:11:49,166 and I remember occasions when he was asked to leave lessons 190 00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:51,000 because he just wasn't working. 191 00:11:52,709 --> 00:11:55,625 Verkaik: Some of his older friends in the community 192 00:11:55,709 --> 00:11:57,709 are part of street gangs. 193 00:11:57,792 --> 00:11:59,625 This is another theme in Emwazi's life. 194 00:11:59,709 --> 00:12:02,333 He's very much influenced by older men. 195 00:12:02,417 --> 00:12:04,417 So, all key figures in his life 196 00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:07,709 tend to be people who he can look up to 197 00:12:07,792 --> 00:12:10,625 and some of the gang members were involved in crime, 198 00:12:10,709 --> 00:12:13,750 one or two served jail terms for stealing bikes, 199 00:12:13,834 --> 00:12:15,125 drugs offenses. 200 00:12:15,208 --> 00:12:19,125 Emwazi himself was arrested and put on trial 201 00:12:19,208 --> 00:12:21,625 for a string of bike robberies. 202 00:12:21,709 --> 00:12:23,625 He was eventually acquitted of that, 203 00:12:23,709 --> 00:12:26,834 but by association he was being drawn into 204 00:12:26,917 --> 00:12:29,125 this kind of crime lifestyle. 205 00:12:33,625 --> 00:12:36,750 Shuter: He was part of a very supportive, 206 00:12:36,834 --> 00:12:41,500 inclusive school environment and going on to university 207 00:12:41,583 --> 00:12:44,834 a lot of those kinds of support structures are withdrawn 208 00:12:44,917 --> 00:12:47,417 and I think that for any vulnerable young person 209 00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:50,917 being part of a very big faceless university community 210 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,000 is where some of those issues would have set in. 211 00:13:00,667 --> 00:13:03,750 Like we've said, he was one of those invisible young people 212 00:13:03,834 --> 00:13:06,000 that we assume everything is okay, 213 00:13:07,709 --> 00:13:09,959 and in hindsight it obviously wasn't. 214 00:13:12,917 --> 00:13:15,458 ( speaking in foreign language ) 215 00:13:15,542 --> 00:13:18,625 If you try to look at the physical origins 216 00:13:18,709 --> 00:13:21,208 of the Islamic State as a fighting force, 217 00:13:21,291 --> 00:13:24,750 the seeds were sown in places like Camp Bucca, 218 00:13:24,834 --> 00:13:26,458 News reporter: This is a new frontline 219 00:13:26,542 --> 00:13:29,458 in the fight against terrorism, Camp Bucca, 220 00:13:29,542 --> 00:13:33,291 the United States biggest detention facility in Iraq. 221 00:13:33,375 --> 00:13:38,792 Inside Camp Bucca there are more than 19,000 civilian detainees. 222 00:13:38,875 --> 00:13:41,959 They are neither criminals, nor prisoners of war. 223 00:13:42,041 --> 00:13:45,792 Wise: There's a significant amount of mystery about Baghdadi 224 00:13:45,875 --> 00:13:47,917 and the circumstances of his life 225 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,917 that ultimately resulted in him being incarcerated 226 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,667 in Camp Bucca. 227 00:13:52,750 --> 00:13:57,458 He knew that the best way for him to survive in that camp 228 00:13:57,542 --> 00:14:02,375 was to take on the persona of a senior respected individual 229 00:14:02,458 --> 00:14:03,875 in the camp community 230 00:14:03,959 --> 00:14:07,834 by gaining the trust of the US military. 231 00:14:07,917 --> 00:14:10,375 When I took over command of the surge 232 00:14:10,458 --> 00:14:13,291 as a four star in early 2007, 233 00:14:13,375 --> 00:14:15,333 it was quickly apparent to me 234 00:14:15,417 --> 00:14:18,417 that this was almost a terrorist training university. 235 00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:21,125 We had failed to remove the true extremists 236 00:14:21,208 --> 00:14:23,458 from the midst of the population 237 00:14:23,542 --> 00:14:25,166 where they were proselytizing 238 00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:30,500 and essentially running these particular areas. 239 00:14:30,583 --> 00:14:32,417 General David Petraeus: These are all Al-Qaeda, 240 00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:34,667 but this is not a place that you want to hang around 241 00:14:34,750 --> 00:14:36,792 so we really don't wanna stand here that much longer 242 00:14:36,875 --> 00:14:38,500 because they will now organize around us 243 00:14:38,583 --> 00:14:40,834 and you can already see the lieutenant's ready to move. 244 00:14:40,917 --> 00:14:43,500 - Man: If you go back just. - Petraeus: Yep. 245 00:14:43,583 --> 00:14:46,542 Petraeus: Look at them think, look at them put two and two together. 246 00:14:46,625 --> 00:14:49,333 They are watching, when I'm looking at them here, 247 00:14:49,417 --> 00:14:51,375 it's just like they are watching really, really carefully. 248 00:14:51,458 --> 00:14:53,041 Petraeus: I know, I know that, and not only that, 249 00:14:53,125 --> 00:14:54,375 there's another unique matter, 250 00:14:54,458 --> 00:14:56,166 notice how because they are a collective society 251 00:14:56,250 --> 00:14:57,542 they don't think alone. 252 00:14:57,625 --> 00:15:00,875 They're thinking on groups of three to five 253 00:15:00,959 --> 00:15:03,041 with somebody else standing behind asking them 254 00:15:03,125 --> 00:15:05,709 to ask the question so he doesn't get identified. 255 00:15:05,792 --> 00:15:08,375 Inside a compound like this, there are leaders. 256 00:15:08,458 --> 00:15:10,709 We don't know yet who they are. 257 00:15:10,792 --> 00:15:14,041 Wise: Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, clearly understood 258 00:15:14,125 --> 00:15:16,583 not being a warrior himself 259 00:15:16,667 --> 00:15:20,875 that he could in fact lead and manage warriors. 260 00:15:20,959 --> 00:15:24,917 So, this was the laboratory in which his culture was grown. 261 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,417 You had an alienated group of Iraqi officers 262 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:33,000 mixing with some extremist elements 263 00:15:33,083 --> 00:15:34,333 that were already there. 264 00:15:34,417 --> 00:15:37,583 The two came together in a sort of symbiotic way 265 00:15:37,667 --> 00:15:41,250 that over time, because this didn't happen overnight, 266 00:15:41,333 --> 00:15:43,667 a lot of these relationships were formed, 267 00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:45,834 but didn't flourish for a number of years 268 00:15:45,917 --> 00:15:48,542 until suddenly there was a marriage of convenience 269 00:15:48,625 --> 00:15:50,125 and they fired each other up. 270 00:15:50,208 --> 00:15:53,875 When he was released for cooperative and good behavior 271 00:15:53,959 --> 00:15:56,166 from Camp Bucca, he continued 272 00:15:56,250 --> 00:15:59,792 to manage the persona of a good Iraqi citizen. 273 00:15:59,875 --> 00:16:02,667 He hid literally in plain sight. 274 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,583 Petraeus: The days of Zarqawi are over... 275 00:16:05,667 --> 00:16:10,792 and now Iraqis can rejoice and take pride 276 00:16:10,875 --> 00:16:13,959 in what has been accomplished in eliminating that threat. 277 00:16:14,041 --> 00:16:18,375 Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi used that timeframe 278 00:16:18,458 --> 00:16:21,291 between the death of Zarqawi 279 00:16:21,375 --> 00:16:23,417 and the destruction of Al-Qaeda in Iraq 280 00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:27,125 to exploit the relationships that he had made in the camp 281 00:16:27,208 --> 00:16:30,792 and consolidate his infrastructure and 282 00:16:30,875 --> 00:16:35,875 in a position to declare the existence of the Islamic State. 283 00:16:43,583 --> 00:16:46,291 Verkaik: Mohammed Emwazi turned up at Westminster, 284 00:16:46,375 --> 00:16:47,709 and he was wearing 285 00:16:47,792 --> 00:16:51,500 a Pittsburgh Pirates baseball cap and tracksuit. 286 00:16:51,583 --> 00:16:54,208 There was nothing really Islamic about him. 287 00:16:54,291 --> 00:16:56,125 Man: So, he started in 2006, 288 00:16:56,208 --> 00:16:59,375 a normal teenage lad with normal aspirations. 289 00:16:59,458 --> 00:17:01,750 but something happened over the intervening three years. 290 00:17:01,834 --> 00:17:04,041 We'd had reporting on him 291 00:17:04,125 --> 00:17:07,166 during some of his later university years 292 00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:09,166 that he was becoming more extreme. 293 00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:13,208 It's likely the strongest influence on Emwazi at that time 294 00:17:13,291 --> 00:17:15,166 were two specific individuals. 295 00:17:15,250 --> 00:17:18,959 Mohammed Sakr who had also been to the same school, 296 00:17:19,041 --> 00:17:22,750 but three years older than Emwazi had already been to Kenya, 297 00:17:22,834 --> 00:17:26,709 he'd been arrested, he had lots of stories to tell 298 00:17:26,792 --> 00:17:30,041 about how he was leading this really exciting life. 299 00:17:30,125 --> 00:17:33,083 - ( guns exploding ) - ( singing in foreign language ) 300 00:17:33,166 --> 00:17:34,792 As charismatic as Sakr was, 301 00:17:34,875 --> 00:17:37,750 his friend, a guy called Bilal Berjawi, 302 00:17:37,834 --> 00:17:41,000 he'd also been to Kenya, he'd been arrested, 303 00:17:41,083 --> 00:17:44,709 he'd been accused of being involved in terrorism. 304 00:17:44,792 --> 00:17:47,709 He had double the charisma, he had double the stories. 305 00:17:47,792 --> 00:17:49,500 And it's become increasingly apparent 306 00:17:49,583 --> 00:17:53,333 that radicalization isn't something for lonely people. 307 00:17:53,417 --> 00:17:56,750 There's a strong social process that happens. 308 00:17:56,834 --> 00:18:01,041 What started off as him just being a difficult teenager, 309 00:18:01,125 --> 00:18:04,208 doing lots of delinquent activity 310 00:18:04,291 --> 00:18:08,083 to becoming actually someone who wanted to redeem himself 311 00:18:08,166 --> 00:18:12,375 and return back to his original Islamic identity 312 00:18:12,458 --> 00:18:14,542 and practice it more wholly. 313 00:18:14,625 --> 00:18:18,667 A very insightful story from one of his old school friends 314 00:18:18,750 --> 00:18:22,166 who was sitting in a shisha bar on the Edgeware Road 315 00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:24,667 and Emwazi and two associates 316 00:18:24,750 --> 00:18:28,083 were walking down the Edgeware Road in their white robes 317 00:18:28,166 --> 00:18:32,583 and the friend says to Emwazi, "Hi Mohammad, how are you?" 318 00:18:32,667 --> 00:18:34,083 This is a new Emwazi. 319 00:18:34,166 --> 00:18:36,667 He doesn't acknowledge old friends anymore. 320 00:18:36,750 --> 00:18:41,125 He walked past with his head in the air. 321 00:18:41,208 --> 00:18:43,041 This was, he'd moved on. 322 00:18:43,125 --> 00:18:48,542 ( train clanging ) 323 00:18:54,667 --> 00:18:57,959 Man: There are similarities between a criminal lifestyle 324 00:18:58,041 --> 00:18:59,959 and recruitment for jihad. 325 00:19:00,041 --> 00:19:01,667 So everyone's looking for a sense of purpose 326 00:19:01,750 --> 00:19:04,500 and meaning and significance in life 327 00:19:04,583 --> 00:19:07,166 and the jihadist milieu presents itself 328 00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:09,083 as a David versus Goliath mentality 329 00:19:09,166 --> 00:19:10,750 for those that are disenfranchised. 330 00:19:10,834 --> 00:19:13,166 We give a family to those that never had a family before. 331 00:19:13,250 --> 00:19:16,125 Prisons have becoming breeding grounds for recruitment, 332 00:19:16,208 --> 00:19:18,166 for the very reason that it's very easy to take someone 333 00:19:18,250 --> 00:19:20,625 who has an affiliation with a gang and convince them 334 00:19:20,709 --> 00:19:23,291 that they should act out and lash out against their society 335 00:19:23,375 --> 00:19:24,792 because they already have that. 336 00:19:24,875 --> 00:19:27,333 You present Islam as an ability to transform that 337 00:19:27,417 --> 00:19:28,834 into something powerful and positive. 338 00:19:28,917 --> 00:19:32,000 It gives structure where there was none 339 00:19:32,083 --> 00:19:34,417 and it can be very beneficial at first. 340 00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:38,041 They start to go to school, they start to associate with positive religious friends. 341 00:19:38,125 --> 00:19:40,625 Their interest in reading and studying changes, 342 00:19:40,709 --> 00:19:42,667 but it's really part and parcel 343 00:19:42,750 --> 00:19:45,250 of that first step into extremism. 344 00:19:45,333 --> 00:19:46,792 It is a major tool for recruitment 345 00:19:46,875 --> 00:19:48,417 'cause you're selling a complete lifestyle 346 00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:49,834 in the same way that a gang sells 347 00:19:49,917 --> 00:19:51,667 a complete countercultural lifestyle. 348 00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:54,625 You're selling a countercultural, gang-like lifestyle. 349 00:19:54,709 --> 00:19:56,750 And so the two correlate rather well. 350 00:19:56,834 --> 00:19:59,709 ( clock ticking ) 351 00:20:01,583 --> 00:20:05,166 Verkaik: Having left university in 2009, 352 00:20:05,250 --> 00:20:06,667 they cast their eyes around the world 353 00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:10,542 and the region they land on is Somalia 354 00:20:10,625 --> 00:20:14,667 because Somalia is in the grip of an Islamic revolution. 355 00:20:14,750 --> 00:20:16,792 Somalia was the only jihad in town 356 00:20:16,875 --> 00:20:19,041 as far as they were concerned. 357 00:20:19,125 --> 00:20:20,667 Looking at it from his eyes, 358 00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:23,792 all he wants to do is go and take part 359 00:20:23,875 --> 00:20:28,041 in what he would describe as a humanitarian mission. 360 00:20:28,125 --> 00:20:32,500 He thinks that going to join an Islamist group in Somalia 361 00:20:32,583 --> 00:20:35,542 is like working with children in crisis. 362 00:20:35,625 --> 00:20:37,250 You know, conveniently ignores the fact 363 00:20:37,333 --> 00:20:39,166 that Al-Shabaab, they've been involved 364 00:20:39,250 --> 00:20:42,000 in a number of terror atrocities already, 365 00:20:42,083 --> 00:20:43,875 they've got blood on their hands, 366 00:20:43,959 --> 00:20:48,458 they are a hugely destabilizing force in the region. 367 00:20:55,333 --> 00:20:59,500 March 2009, Emwazi teamed up with a couple of friends 368 00:20:59,583 --> 00:21:02,500 and they set off to Tanzania 369 00:21:02,583 --> 00:21:05,917 where they said they were going to go on safari. 370 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,333 ( plane engine whooshing ) 371 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,083 Walton: I know and we know, we were running operations 372 00:21:20,166 --> 00:21:23,083 against West London Islamists at the time 373 00:21:23,166 --> 00:21:25,959 and we were fully aware of their intentions, 374 00:21:26,041 --> 00:21:28,542 which were not to go to a safari. 375 00:21:37,083 --> 00:21:39,917 Verkaik: When they arrived in Dar es Salaam, 376 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,125 they were greeted by the Tanzanian Security Services. 377 00:21:44,208 --> 00:21:49,125 They were locked up for the night, subject to beatings, 378 00:21:49,208 --> 00:21:51,208 generally roughed up you might say, 379 00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:57,750 and we know all this because of Emwazi's own accounts 380 00:21:57,834 --> 00:21:59,834 of what happened to him. 381 00:21:59,917 --> 00:22:02,000 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 382 00:22:27,875 --> 00:22:31,750 They went back via Amsterdam, when they arrived at Amsterdam, 383 00:22:31,834 --> 00:22:35,333 they were met again by security service officers 384 00:22:35,417 --> 00:22:39,500 from both the Dutch security service and MI5. 385 00:22:39,583 --> 00:22:40,750 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 386 00:22:58,041 --> 00:23:01,291 Verkaik: He was quizzed in Amsterdam for 12 or so hours. 387 00:23:01,375 --> 00:23:04,625 On his return to Dover he was further questioned 388 00:23:04,709 --> 00:23:06,834 by British Security Services. 389 00:23:06,917 --> 00:23:08,542 Walton: We made approaches to him, 390 00:23:08,625 --> 00:23:11,000 we wanted to give him the opportunity to work for us 391 00:23:11,083 --> 00:23:14,959 and to actually desist from becoming a terrorist. 392 00:23:15,041 --> 00:23:17,417 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 393 00:23:30,959 --> 00:23:32,458 They rammed home this idea 394 00:23:32,542 --> 00:23:35,667 that life could become uncomfortable for him 395 00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:38,792 unless of course he wanted to cooperate with them. 396 00:23:38,875 --> 00:23:41,959 Perhaps let us know what some of your friends are up to. 397 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,625 To Emwazi this was a red rag to a bull. 398 00:23:45,709 --> 00:23:48,500 This is not something that he's prepared to do. 399 00:23:48,583 --> 00:23:52,000 It's an ultimate betrayal of everything that he has become. 400 00:23:52,083 --> 00:23:54,291 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 401 00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:17,417 The challenge for the service in the context of Jihadi John is understanding 402 00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:19,750 how his mental state is evolving 403 00:24:19,834 --> 00:24:21,750 because there's lots going on in his life, 404 00:24:21,834 --> 00:24:24,917 lots of traumatic events that would be traumatic to anybody 405 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,959 let alone somebody who's already got a sense of persecution by the state. 406 00:24:30,041 --> 00:24:32,291 If there's any suggestion at all 407 00:24:32,375 --> 00:24:35,041 that it may have the opposite effect, 408 00:24:35,125 --> 00:24:37,125 then the recruitment ought not to take place. 409 00:24:37,208 --> 00:24:40,333 Walton: There's always a risk when you make these approaches 410 00:24:40,417 --> 00:24:44,208 and the chances of success are in any event 411 00:24:44,291 --> 00:24:47,750 fairly minimal, but you can't not do them. 412 00:24:47,834 --> 00:24:50,208 You have to give an individual an opportunity 413 00:24:50,291 --> 00:24:51,625 to not go down that path. 414 00:24:51,709 --> 00:24:53,041 But we've got to be careful. 415 00:24:53,125 --> 00:24:58,750 There's a nature/nurture debate within that. 416 00:24:58,834 --> 00:25:03,417 Was he always likely to carry out that kind of activity 417 00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:06,417 or did he carry out that activity just because he was approached. 418 00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:09,875 I think it's unlikely that was the turning point. 419 00:25:09,959 --> 00:25:13,834 Emwazi now had something to tell his friends. 420 00:25:13,917 --> 00:25:15,834 He'd been stopped by the cops. 421 00:25:15,917 --> 00:25:17,709 He'd been insulted, he would say, 422 00:25:17,792 --> 00:25:19,250 by the security services. 423 00:25:19,333 --> 00:25:22,250 He'd received a beating in Tanzania. 424 00:25:22,333 --> 00:25:25,125 You can imagine how proud he was, he'd come of age. 425 00:25:25,208 --> 00:25:27,792 He was a serious jihadi player now. 426 00:25:42,083 --> 00:25:45,291 El-Badawy: I mean in my line of work, I remember monitoring Al-Qaeda 427 00:25:45,375 --> 00:25:47,792 and by chance happened to track 428 00:25:47,875 --> 00:25:49,834 the rumblings of another group, 429 00:25:49,917 --> 00:25:52,375 another sort of fringe organization 430 00:25:52,458 --> 00:25:54,917 that had sprouted from old Al-Qaeda in Iraq. 431 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,542 Baghdadi had spent much of 2010 building a network 432 00:25:57,625 --> 00:26:01,542 of veteran jihadists who had been running the course of time 433 00:26:01,625 --> 00:26:04,041 to find the next big conflict. 434 00:26:04,125 --> 00:26:06,291 ( bombs exploding ) 435 00:26:06,375 --> 00:26:08,083 News reporter: As the Syrian struggle intensifies, 436 00:26:08,166 --> 00:26:10,417 the battle to remove the Assad regime 437 00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:13,959 is pulling in volunteer fighters from across the Arab world. 438 00:26:15,542 --> 00:26:18,500 But the chaos unleashed by the uprising has also drawn in 439 00:26:18,583 --> 00:26:21,834 foreign jihadists, Islamic extremists, 440 00:26:21,917 --> 00:26:23,500 some believed to be affiliated to Al-Qaeda. 441 00:26:23,583 --> 00:26:24,875 ( speaking in foreign language ) 442 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,709 And Abu Akbar Al-Baghdadi saw an opportunity 443 00:26:28,792 --> 00:26:31,500 and so he dispatched an operative named 444 00:26:31,583 --> 00:26:33,667 Al-Julani to Syria, 445 00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:36,875 and Al-Julani created the Jabhat al-Nusra, 446 00:26:36,959 --> 00:26:40,667 which was the initial extreme Islamic presence in Syria. 447 00:26:40,750 --> 00:26:42,667 News reporter: So far, US support for the rebels 448 00:26:42,750 --> 00:26:45,083 has been limited to non-lethal assistance, 449 00:26:45,166 --> 00:26:48,125 communications equipment, humanitarian aid, 450 00:26:48,208 --> 00:26:49,667 but no weapons. 451 00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:51,458 Arming a fragmented opposition 452 00:26:51,542 --> 00:26:54,208 that has some extremist elements carries a risk, 453 00:26:54,291 --> 00:26:57,792 analysts say, but so does staying on the side lines. 454 00:26:57,875 --> 00:27:00,333 What we've done in the case of Syria 455 00:27:00,417 --> 00:27:02,542 is just enough to keep the war alive, 456 00:27:02,625 --> 00:27:04,750 but never enough to allow it to be won. 457 00:27:04,834 --> 00:27:09,041 We never provided the support for the moderate elements 458 00:27:09,125 --> 00:27:12,959 of this uprising, and it was the more extreme elements 459 00:27:13,041 --> 00:27:15,792 that were pursuing the bolder action. 460 00:27:15,875 --> 00:27:17,792 El-Badawy: Jabhat al-Nusra started to embed themselves 461 00:27:17,875 --> 00:27:20,500 within the rebel forces in Syria and this was at a time 462 00:27:20,583 --> 00:27:22,208 when a lot of Rebel groups, 463 00:27:22,291 --> 00:27:23,750 whether they were Islamists or not, 464 00:27:23,834 --> 00:27:25,417 they were pretty disorganized 465 00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:28,083 and so any level of organization filled a vacuum, 466 00:27:28,166 --> 00:27:29,667 and Baghdadi was ready to do that 467 00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:32,792 because of the work he'd been doing since 2010. 468 00:27:32,875 --> 00:27:37,458 What Baghdadi built in Syria swept back in to 469 00:27:37,542 --> 00:27:40,208 first western Iraq drawing strength and money 470 00:27:40,291 --> 00:27:43,792 and ammunition and explosives and vehicles and so forth. 471 00:27:43,875 --> 00:27:46,333 This was a terrorist army 472 00:27:46,417 --> 00:27:49,083 and they spread through Iraq really like a cancer, 473 00:27:49,166 --> 00:27:51,709 and they move through the Sunni portions of Iraq. 474 00:27:51,792 --> 00:27:53,917 They get dangerously close to Baghdad, 475 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,834 News reporter: The Iraqi government is losing control. 476 00:27:56,917 --> 00:27:59,750 This is happening with unbelievable speed. 477 00:27:59,834 --> 00:28:01,750 A violent Islamic group has launched 478 00:28:01,834 --> 00:28:03,709 something of an invasion. 479 00:28:03,792 --> 00:28:06,417 News reporter: A Sunni Islamic terror group formed last year 480 00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:09,834 after being expelled from Al-Qaeda for being too radical. 481 00:28:09,917 --> 00:28:11,500 But who are they? 482 00:28:11,583 --> 00:28:13,875 They're the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, 483 00:28:13,959 --> 00:28:15,709 I-S-I-S for short. 484 00:28:15,792 --> 00:28:18,750 Petraeus: And so you have ultimately tens of thousands 485 00:28:18,834 --> 00:28:22,166 of disenchanted Muslims who come to rise up 486 00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:26,000 in this very twisted interpretation of Islam 487 00:28:26,083 --> 00:28:30,250 that is propagated by a leader with extraordinary vision 488 00:28:30,333 --> 00:28:32,750 and quite extraordinary operational skills 489 00:28:32,834 --> 00:28:35,417 and this is, of course, Al-Baghdadi. 490 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:38,625 The latest reports are that police forces in Mosul 491 00:28:38,709 --> 00:28:41,959 were taking off their uniforms, laying down their guns and leaving. 492 00:28:42,041 --> 00:28:43,583 News reporter: There is a video 493 00:28:43,667 --> 00:28:45,333 that has been released by this group ISIS 494 00:28:45,417 --> 00:28:48,583 that shows what seems to be a very grisly massacre 495 00:28:48,667 --> 00:28:52,709 about 150 Iraqi soldiers lined up, executed. 496 00:28:52,792 --> 00:28:57,417 The ISIS guys are effectively, using medieval warfare ethics. 497 00:28:57,500 --> 00:28:59,250 Of course, human society has moved on 498 00:28:59,333 --> 00:29:02,667 in the ensuing centuries and now we don't kill prisoners 499 00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:03,834 and we don't take slaves. 500 00:29:03,917 --> 00:29:05,709 ( speaking in foreign language ) 501 00:29:05,792 --> 00:29:08,875 ( people screaming ) 502 00:29:08,959 --> 00:29:12,834 ( speaking in foreign language ) 503 00:29:23,667 --> 00:29:25,750 Dr. Usama Hasan: But for ISIS they reject modern convention. 504 00:29:25,834 --> 00:29:29,208 They're trying to stick to literal interpretations of texts 505 00:29:29,291 --> 00:29:31,583 from the 7th and 8th centuries. 506 00:29:31,667 --> 00:29:35,041 So this is a battle for the heart and soul of Islam. 507 00:29:47,834 --> 00:29:50,458 Verkaik: In May 2009, Mohammed Emwazi 508 00:29:50,542 --> 00:29:53,083 has been through quite an ordeal. 509 00:29:53,166 --> 00:29:55,375 When he finally gets back to London, 510 00:29:55,458 --> 00:29:58,208 still smarting from the indignities 511 00:29:58,291 --> 00:30:01,792 of the interrogations and detentions, 512 00:30:01,875 --> 00:30:04,750 he then discovers that his fiancée's family 513 00:30:04,834 --> 00:30:07,333 have received a visit from the security services. 514 00:30:07,417 --> 00:30:11,250 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 515 00:30:30,625 --> 00:30:33,959 Walton: So his fiancée was approached and, of course, 516 00:30:34,041 --> 00:30:35,417 she was then deterred if you like. 517 00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:37,500 She then walks away from him. 518 00:30:37,583 --> 00:30:41,959 Verkaik: For them, who are a very conservative Somali family. 519 00:30:42,041 --> 00:30:44,000 This is a problem. 520 00:30:44,083 --> 00:30:46,667 Not only have they messed with his own life, 521 00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:49,208 they've messed with his girlfriend's life. 522 00:30:49,291 --> 00:30:51,875 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 523 00:30:57,750 --> 00:31:00,667 Verkaik: This is a transgression that confirms everything 524 00:31:00,750 --> 00:31:05,208 that he's been told about the British Security Services. 525 00:31:05,291 --> 00:31:07,542 Walton: Bilal Berjawi, who'd returned back to London 526 00:31:07,625 --> 00:31:10,083 after being trained in a training camp in East Africa 527 00:31:10,166 --> 00:31:13,959 and, of course, he was inspiring his little cohort. 528 00:31:14,041 --> 00:31:17,500 Verkaik: The point about Berjawi was that he could motivate 529 00:31:17,583 --> 00:31:19,667 all of the London boys and if he said, 530 00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:21,792 "Let's go 'round rattling tins 531 00:31:21,875 --> 00:31:23,875 and collecting cash outside the mosques," 532 00:31:23,959 --> 00:31:25,250 then they'd all do it 533 00:31:25,333 --> 00:31:26,750 and Emwazi obviously got caught up in that. 534 00:31:26,834 --> 00:31:29,333 The money was being transferred back over to Somalia, 535 00:31:29,417 --> 00:31:30,875 then obviously being used to buy firearms 536 00:31:30,959 --> 00:31:32,375 and to support Al-Shabaab. 537 00:31:32,458 --> 00:31:34,750 Effectively that's terrorist fundraising, 538 00:31:34,834 --> 00:31:36,125 that's what he was engaged in. 539 00:31:39,625 --> 00:31:42,917 Verkaik: While he's being stopped when he goes out, questioned. 540 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,750 He's being followed, he's having to get involved 541 00:31:45,834 --> 00:31:48,208 in counter surveillance activities, 542 00:31:48,291 --> 00:31:50,625 so he's sort of jumping on trains at the last minute. 543 00:31:50,709 --> 00:31:52,750 He's leaving his mobile phone at home. 544 00:31:52,834 --> 00:31:54,709 He's meeting in parks with associates. 545 00:31:54,792 --> 00:31:57,709 I mean he's looking very suspicious. 546 00:31:57,792 --> 00:32:02,875 McKay: As a young Muslim on the fringes of extremist activities 547 00:32:02,959 --> 00:32:04,750 he was a legitimate target. 548 00:32:04,834 --> 00:32:07,834 In fact, the service would have been failing in its duty 549 00:32:07,917 --> 00:32:11,667 if it didn't keep him under some kind of observation. 550 00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:13,792 Walton: What you have with individuals like this, 551 00:32:13,875 --> 00:32:16,417 you have an emerging intelligence picture, 552 00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:19,291 based on intelligence that you're receiving 553 00:32:19,375 --> 00:32:22,041 from individuals that are associating with them, 554 00:32:22,125 --> 00:32:25,583 who are working for us and they're telling us 555 00:32:25,667 --> 00:32:29,166 that he's becoming more hard-lined, more extremist 556 00:32:29,250 --> 00:32:32,000 and more of a threat. 557 00:32:32,083 --> 00:32:36,000 Verkaik: Emwazi's family were concerned about their oldest son. 558 00:32:36,083 --> 00:32:38,583 His younger brother Omar, who I met and who told me 559 00:32:38,667 --> 00:32:40,583 that the family hatched a plan 560 00:32:40,667 --> 00:32:44,625 where he would travel to Kuwait, stay with his grandmother 561 00:32:44,709 --> 00:32:46,709 and he would escape, not just the attention 562 00:32:46,792 --> 00:32:49,625 of the security services, but also the influence 563 00:32:49,709 --> 00:32:52,458 of the gang that he was running with 564 00:32:52,542 --> 00:32:53,875 and that's what he did. 565 00:32:53,959 --> 00:32:56,542 He took a job with a computer company 566 00:32:56,625 --> 00:32:58,917 where he was involved in the technical side of the company 567 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,208 and he also had a salesman role as well 568 00:33:01,291 --> 00:33:04,792 and the boss thought he was an excellent worker. 569 00:33:04,875 --> 00:33:06,875 He'd met another girlfriend, 570 00:33:06,959 --> 00:33:10,500 someone who he also wanted to marry. 571 00:33:10,583 --> 00:33:12,625 So he was still intent on having a family life. 572 00:33:12,709 --> 00:33:16,041 He was enjoying his new life, he was happy. 573 00:33:21,125 --> 00:33:23,834 It's always a question about what drives a terrorist 574 00:33:23,917 --> 00:33:25,792 to become a terrorist. 575 00:33:25,875 --> 00:33:28,667 and it's often a range of motivations. 576 00:33:28,750 --> 00:33:31,500 It's not just a top-down process of recruitment. 577 00:33:31,583 --> 00:33:33,000 As we used to say, the obligation 578 00:33:33,083 --> 00:33:34,709 is not to convert the entire world, 579 00:33:34,792 --> 00:33:37,834 but to make the truth accessible to those that seek it, 580 00:33:37,917 --> 00:33:39,000 so these are seekers. 581 00:33:39,083 --> 00:33:40,542 If you look at what motivates 582 00:33:40,625 --> 00:33:43,875 and what motivated young people to go out to Syria 583 00:33:43,959 --> 00:33:48,125 many of them were going to pursue a romantic notion 584 00:33:48,208 --> 00:33:52,500 of a high-minded, religiously inspired, faithful, 585 00:33:52,583 --> 00:33:56,542 pure way of life in a way that young people 586 00:33:56,625 --> 00:33:58,875 in lots of countries will want to do something worthwhile 587 00:33:58,959 --> 00:34:00,166 with their lives. 588 00:34:00,250 --> 00:34:02,250 Brutal honesty, I didn't want to sit 589 00:34:02,333 --> 00:34:04,709 in a nine-to-five job. 590 00:34:04,792 --> 00:34:09,208 I wanted to be part of something bigger. 591 00:34:09,291 --> 00:34:12,792 My dad, joined the RAF when he was around about 17. 592 00:34:12,875 --> 00:34:15,333 He saw a lot of suffering, a lot of things there. 593 00:34:15,417 --> 00:34:17,375 I think that's when he first started 594 00:34:17,458 --> 00:34:19,542 to get this love of helping people 595 00:34:19,625 --> 00:34:22,291 I feel especially attracted by the Middle East 596 00:34:22,375 --> 00:34:26,375 because it is close and still very different, 597 00:34:26,458 --> 00:34:30,000 and it is also where the roots of our civilization are. 598 00:34:31,667 --> 00:34:33,375 I became a holy warrior at one point. 599 00:34:33,458 --> 00:34:37,000 At the age of 19, I took part in jihad in Afghanistan 600 00:34:37,083 --> 00:34:39,542 fighting against Afghan communist soldiers 601 00:34:39,625 --> 00:34:41,250 who were backed by the Soviet Union. 602 00:34:41,333 --> 00:34:42,709 For me, the experience of the jihad 603 00:34:42,792 --> 00:34:44,208 was actually very positive 604 00:34:44,291 --> 00:34:46,417 and we were defending oppressed people 605 00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:49,250 and taking part in military activity when you're 19, 606 00:34:49,333 --> 00:34:52,500 it's really cool to fire guns at that age. 607 00:34:54,583 --> 00:34:58,583 Woman: Jim was driven by what he saw 608 00:34:58,667 --> 00:35:03,375 and the more he saw of the suffering of the people, 609 00:35:03,458 --> 00:35:06,750 the more compelled he felt to tell their stories. 610 00:35:06,834 --> 00:35:08,709 So there was a dilemma around the journalists 611 00:35:08,792 --> 00:35:11,083 and the aid workers who were traveling out there 612 00:35:11,166 --> 00:35:14,458 and in many respects they were causing us more and more problems. 613 00:35:14,542 --> 00:35:18,250 Bethany Haines: My dad went over to Croatia and then on to Libya 614 00:35:18,333 --> 00:35:22,959 just giving out aid and then he got the job going to Syria. 615 00:35:23,041 --> 00:35:26,667 Syria was the single biggest humanitarian crisis at the time. 616 00:35:26,750 --> 00:35:28,583 I felt like I had something to offer. 617 00:35:28,667 --> 00:35:32,125 Um... I guess it was exciting. 618 00:35:32,208 --> 00:35:34,959 I thought that I got some addiction to adrenaline, 619 00:35:35,041 --> 00:35:38,834 but while some war reporters may be 620 00:35:38,917 --> 00:35:40,417 only driven by adrenaline, 621 00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:43,291 I was also driven to tell the story of people. 622 00:35:43,375 --> 00:35:45,625 And I think as it got more dangerous, 623 00:35:45,709 --> 00:35:51,166 more and more media were pulling out of Syria 624 00:35:51,250 --> 00:35:54,417 and so I think he felt more and more compelled 625 00:35:54,500 --> 00:35:57,834 to do what he felt he knew how to do. 626 00:35:57,917 --> 00:35:59,750 Walton: And of course to a war reporter, 627 00:35:59,834 --> 00:36:00,959 it's part of their day job 628 00:36:01,041 --> 00:36:02,542 to go to these difficult areas, 629 00:36:02,625 --> 00:36:05,583 but there was just massively high risk for anyone 630 00:36:05,667 --> 00:36:06,792 traveling into that region. 631 00:36:06,875 --> 00:36:08,834 ( gunfire blasting ) 632 00:36:08,917 --> 00:36:12,917 ( singing in foreign language ) 633 00:36:17,375 --> 00:36:19,500 Walton: At one time, you had Islamic State 634 00:36:19,583 --> 00:36:22,375 pulling people out of cars, abducting them 635 00:36:22,458 --> 00:36:24,959 and then they were filming all of this process. 636 00:36:25,041 --> 00:36:27,000 Haines: And these particular videos 637 00:36:27,083 --> 00:36:29,875 have been deliberately put out in the open for ISIS 638 00:36:29,959 --> 00:36:35,417 to communicate its processes of rooting out spies 639 00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:38,917 and people who are trying to undermine the cause for ISIS. 640 00:36:46,375 --> 00:36:50,000 Walton: Once an individual knows that they are under the scrutiny 641 00:36:50,083 --> 00:36:53,041 of the state they then have to develop, 642 00:36:53,125 --> 00:36:55,125 if you like, cover stories for their activity. 643 00:36:55,208 --> 00:36:59,250 Verkaik: Unfortunately, Emwazi has problems with his teeth. 644 00:36:59,333 --> 00:37:00,709 He tries Kuwaiti dentists, 645 00:37:00,792 --> 00:37:03,333 but none of them can solve his severe tooth ache. 646 00:37:03,417 --> 00:37:06,834 He can't sleep, so he speaks to his family 647 00:37:06,917 --> 00:37:08,583 and they say come back. 648 00:37:08,667 --> 00:37:10,542 We were receiving intelligence that potentially 649 00:37:10,625 --> 00:37:13,709 he's still aspiring to become a hardened terrorist. 650 00:37:13,792 --> 00:37:16,333 I would only say that what we don't know is 651 00:37:16,417 --> 00:37:17,959 what else he's doing in Kuwait. 652 00:37:18,041 --> 00:37:21,041 All we know is that he's coming back and forth. 653 00:37:21,125 --> 00:37:23,542 So he comes back for the second time. 654 00:37:23,625 --> 00:37:26,917 Walton: Of course raising again the suspicion of the authorities 655 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,542 that he was not content with his life in Kuwait. 656 00:37:29,625 --> 00:37:33,333 Verkaik: He turns up at Heathrow Airport a few days later, 657 00:37:33,417 --> 00:37:36,208 this time he's detained in the airport. 658 00:37:36,291 --> 00:37:37,750 Walton: According to his father, 659 00:37:37,834 --> 00:37:40,667 he's prevented from going back to Kuwait, 660 00:37:40,750 --> 00:37:42,834 not by the Kuwaiti Intelligence Services, 661 00:37:42,917 --> 00:37:44,542 but by British pressure 662 00:37:44,625 --> 00:37:46,583 on the Kuwaiti Intelligence Services. 663 00:37:46,667 --> 00:37:48,375 McKay: Would it be a legitimate use 664 00:37:48,458 --> 00:37:51,417 of the security services powers to invite another state 665 00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:53,792 to decline a visa? Possibly. 666 00:37:53,875 --> 00:37:56,166 But it's equally as plausible that the Kuwaiti government 667 00:37:56,250 --> 00:37:58,041 just didn't want him in the country. 668 00:37:58,125 --> 00:38:00,709 Verkaik: Unfortunately, he learns while he's in London 669 00:38:00,792 --> 00:38:02,583 that Kuwaiti Security Services 670 00:38:02,667 --> 00:38:05,667 have visited his Kuwaiti fiancée's family. 671 00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:07,083 They have introduced the idea 672 00:38:07,166 --> 00:38:10,417 that he may be linked to terrorism. 673 00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:13,583 Again, the family call the wedding off. 674 00:38:13,667 --> 00:38:16,959 His whole life is being, as far as he is concerned, 675 00:38:17,041 --> 00:38:18,750 funneled in one direction. 676 00:38:18,834 --> 00:38:20,458 Can't go to Kuwait, 677 00:38:20,542 --> 00:38:23,750 finding it impossible to exist in London, 678 00:38:23,834 --> 00:38:27,041 his intentions are now focused on extreme lifestyle, 679 00:38:27,125 --> 00:38:28,208 the full jihad. 680 00:38:33,458 --> 00:38:36,625 Emwazi was defiant even in those early days 681 00:38:36,709 --> 00:38:39,583 in terms of his approaching an organization called CAGE, 682 00:38:39,667 --> 00:38:43,917 who purport to represent the interests of Islamic causes. 683 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,208 He visits CAGE, he discusses with them 684 00:38:46,291 --> 00:38:49,542 his problems he's having with the security services. 685 00:38:49,625 --> 00:38:51,542 They suggest that if he really wants 686 00:38:51,625 --> 00:38:54,041 to get the security services off his case, 687 00:38:54,125 --> 00:38:55,542 he should go public. 688 00:38:55,625 --> 00:39:00,166 And this is when I am introduced to Mohammed Emwazi. 689 00:39:00,250 --> 00:39:03,667 We speak to each other on the telephone, we switch emails. 690 00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:06,583 Emwazi and I agreed to meet at a cafe. 691 00:39:06,667 --> 00:39:11,208 It became very clear early on that this was a serious man. 692 00:39:11,291 --> 00:39:14,667 This wasn't someone who thought it was interesting, 693 00:39:14,750 --> 00:39:16,250 exciting perhaps, to sit down 694 00:39:16,333 --> 00:39:17,917 and chat about his experiences. 695 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,792 This was a defiant young man, 696 00:39:19,875 --> 00:39:23,750 who was convinced that he had been the victim 697 00:39:23,834 --> 00:39:27,125 of a wrongdoing, and it was my job to try 698 00:39:27,208 --> 00:39:30,917 and help him right that wrong, which was fine by me, 699 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,959 because give us a good story, and I'll print it. 700 00:39:34,041 --> 00:39:35,291 That was my approach. 701 00:39:35,375 --> 00:39:37,083 But as the conversation went on, 702 00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:39,583 he started to tell me about the fiancées 703 00:39:39,667 --> 00:39:43,625 and how the police had destroyed these engagements, 704 00:39:43,709 --> 00:39:46,709 and that was what sold his story to me. 705 00:39:46,792 --> 00:39:51,000 It seemed to me, if I believed him, a real step too far. 706 00:39:58,625 --> 00:40:01,959 So, by approaching CAGE, by speaking to a journalist, 707 00:40:02,041 --> 00:40:06,667 this was his strategy for countering our interventions. 708 00:40:06,750 --> 00:40:08,834 These are the early signs of him 709 00:40:08,917 --> 00:40:12,667 if you like being offensive against the state. 710 00:40:15,125 --> 00:40:17,542 Verkaik: Unfortunately, he'd emailed me back 711 00:40:17,625 --> 00:40:19,792 saying he'd spoken to the families 712 00:40:19,875 --> 00:40:22,417 and he wasn't confident they would agree 713 00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:24,583 to have their pictures in the newspaper. 714 00:40:24,667 --> 00:40:27,250 He had pictures, but he couldn't pass them on to me 715 00:40:27,333 --> 00:40:29,333 because that would be a breach of trust. 716 00:40:29,417 --> 00:40:32,250 So, I had sort of half a story, really. 717 00:40:32,333 --> 00:40:35,166 So, we never really got the story off the ground, 718 00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:39,083 and that was the last contact I had with him. 719 00:40:39,166 --> 00:40:42,208 ( rockets roar ) 720 00:40:42,291 --> 00:40:43,875 James Foley: Syrian government forces 721 00:40:43,959 --> 00:40:46,750 continued to bombard Aleppo beating back rebels 722 00:40:46,834 --> 00:40:48,917 of the Free Syrian Army, but the battle 723 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,542 for the country's largest city 724 00:40:50,625 --> 00:40:53,500 is also taking a deadly toll on civilians. 725 00:40:53,583 --> 00:40:55,709 The regime has bombed hospitals, homes, 726 00:40:55,792 --> 00:40:58,625 even people standing in line for bread. 727 00:40:58,709 --> 00:41:01,709 Diane Foley: I guess the biggest, most obvious silence, 728 00:41:01,792 --> 00:41:04,583 was Thanksgiving of 2012. 729 00:41:04,667 --> 00:41:10,875 Jim was always very cognizant of holidays or birthdays, or... 730 00:41:10,959 --> 00:41:13,291 and certainly Thanksgiving. 731 00:41:13,375 --> 00:41:16,250 To not hear from him was odd... 732 00:41:17,542 --> 00:41:20,917 and so we were a bit concerned. 733 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,250 And it actually was the next morning, 734 00:41:23,333 --> 00:41:24,834 the morning after Thanksgiving, 735 00:41:24,917 --> 00:41:27,709 when one of his colleagues called to tell us 736 00:41:27,792 --> 00:41:29,625 that he had been captured. 737 00:41:29,709 --> 00:41:33,208 So... that confirmed our fear. 738 00:41:41,709 --> 00:41:44,250 Nicolas Henin: Raqqa was taken six weeks or so 739 00:41:44,333 --> 00:41:46,500 before I arrived in the city 740 00:41:46,583 --> 00:41:49,375 and I wanted to do mostly political reporting. 741 00:41:49,458 --> 00:41:54,333 We entered the former headquarters of the Ba'ath Party. 742 00:41:54,417 --> 00:41:59,125 The following day we came back to their headquarters 743 00:41:59,208 --> 00:42:01,834 and they just attacked us in the street. 744 00:42:01,917 --> 00:42:03,250 That was a trap. 745 00:42:05,083 --> 00:42:07,542 And they drove me for about 20 minutes. 746 00:42:09,667 --> 00:42:13,917 When they removed the blindfold I was in a bathroom 747 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,959 and they locked the door. 748 00:42:17,041 --> 00:42:19,542 ( door slams ) 749 00:42:19,625 --> 00:42:25,041 I noticed the bars of the window were potentially a bit weak 750 00:42:25,125 --> 00:42:30,875 and in the evening, I removed the bars jumped outside. 751 00:42:30,959 --> 00:42:34,875 I was free and that was one of the most exciting nights 752 00:42:34,959 --> 00:42:38,375 of my life, even though I was terrified, 753 00:42:38,458 --> 00:42:42,208 especially the first 100 meters or so that I ran, 754 00:42:42,291 --> 00:42:45,625 and I was praying that no one would have seen me. 755 00:42:47,250 --> 00:42:52,834 But after I took some distance, I was like, Oh, that's so good! 756 00:42:52,917 --> 00:42:55,458 That's so good! I am winning! 757 00:42:56,458 --> 00:42:57,792 These bastards! 758 00:42:58,792 --> 00:43:00,000 What a good trick! 759 00:43:00,083 --> 00:43:03,083 ( man panting ) 760 00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:09,875 I was euphoric. 761 00:43:13,041 --> 00:43:14,750 I wanted to reach Raqqa. 762 00:43:14,834 --> 00:43:18,333 I noticed already the lights of Raqqa on the horizon, 763 00:43:18,417 --> 00:43:24,041 so I had the direction and very early in the morning 764 00:43:24,125 --> 00:43:25,792 I arrived in a village. 765 00:43:25,875 --> 00:43:30,166 As I entered the streets all the dogs start barking... 766 00:43:32,166 --> 00:43:36,250 and I'm like, "Oh, shit, I wanted to be discreet." 767 00:43:36,333 --> 00:43:42,000 And the first people I met were two guys wearing pajamas, 768 00:43:42,083 --> 00:43:43,583 and they were jihadis. 769 00:43:43,667 --> 00:43:45,166 I couldn't recognize them 770 00:43:45,250 --> 00:43:48,458 because nothing differentiated jihadis wearing pajamas 771 00:43:48,542 --> 00:43:50,625 from someone else wearing pajamas, 772 00:43:50,709 --> 00:43:55,375 and they took me back to the local police station 773 00:43:55,458 --> 00:44:00,583 and they rode me back to the very same cell. 774 00:44:00,667 --> 00:44:05,000 To be taken back is almost worse than to be taken. 775 00:44:06,333 --> 00:44:08,750 I was like... ahh! 776 00:44:08,834 --> 00:44:09,875 Wow. 777 00:44:09,959 --> 00:44:11,917 Now the real shit begins. 778 00:44:17,125 --> 00:44:19,917 ( bomb exploding ) 779 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,000 Walton: In 2012, Emwazi's two mentors, 780 00:44:24,083 --> 00:44:27,667 Bilal Berjawi and Mohamed Sakr, are killed in drone strikes 781 00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:30,250 by the American administration. 782 00:44:30,333 --> 00:44:33,000 Verkaik: This must have a been a devastating moment for him 783 00:44:33,083 --> 00:44:34,542 because while they were away, 784 00:44:34,625 --> 00:44:37,917 Emwazi was close to both their families. 785 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,625 He was involved in looking after Bilal Berjawi's, um, son. 786 00:44:42,709 --> 00:44:45,125 He took a sort of an uncle's role. 787 00:44:45,208 --> 00:44:47,500 I think it was probably a turning point. 788 00:44:47,583 --> 00:44:49,917 Walton: And then you have a bigger problem on your hands 789 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,834 because then they're more determined to travel 790 00:44:51,917 --> 00:44:54,917 and they'll find a way, as indeed Emwazi did. 791 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,333 At some point in 2012, Mohammed Emwazi 792 00:44:58,417 --> 00:45:00,667 managed to slip out of the country. 793 00:45:00,750 --> 00:45:03,291 Perhaps he joined a convoy with other friends, 794 00:45:03,375 --> 00:45:06,959 we're not entirely sure who he went with. 795 00:45:07,041 --> 00:45:11,500 So what we'd hoped to stop came to pass. 796 00:45:11,583 --> 00:45:14,709 In a sense all we did was held back the inevitable. 797 00:45:14,792 --> 00:45:18,625 Whether we contributed to his further radicalization 798 00:45:18,709 --> 00:45:23,709 and his clear anger and vitriol against the British state 799 00:45:23,792 --> 00:45:27,792 by stopping him from travel is an interesting question. 800 00:45:30,875 --> 00:45:33,458 News reporter: More than 70,000 Syrian refugees 801 00:45:33,542 --> 00:45:36,792 have flooded into Turkey in the past 24 hours, 802 00:45:36,875 --> 00:45:38,667 according to UN officials, 803 00:45:38,750 --> 00:45:42,792 and that number could grow to more than 100,000. 804 00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:49,792 I was working for an organization called Impact Initiative 805 00:45:49,875 --> 00:45:51,917 so we were doing the humanitarian data assessment, 806 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,583 providing data that would inform humanitarian programming. 807 00:45:55,667 --> 00:45:58,834 David was a, he was a big guy. 808 00:45:58,917 --> 00:46:00,166 When you first meet him, 809 00:46:00,250 --> 00:46:03,917 he was someone who inspires confidence 810 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,583 when you're going into places. 811 00:46:05,667 --> 00:46:07,250 He was a wonderful guy. 812 00:46:07,333 --> 00:46:10,000 We had very similar ideas as to the good and the bad 813 00:46:10,083 --> 00:46:11,542 of what we were doing. 814 00:46:11,625 --> 00:46:13,250 I think we connected really quickly 815 00:46:13,333 --> 00:46:17,333 and felt comfortable around each other. 816 00:46:19,667 --> 00:46:22,583 We spent the Saturday, Sunday primarily in IBP camps 817 00:46:22,667 --> 00:46:25,417 moving around and also for me, it was the first time 818 00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:26,792 that I was in Syria. 819 00:46:28,291 --> 00:46:31,333 The 12th of March, I think was a Tuesday, 820 00:46:31,417 --> 00:46:35,291 we'd gone in in the morning and we went to a town, 821 00:46:35,375 --> 00:46:39,291 a small town called Atarib, and on our way back, 822 00:46:39,375 --> 00:46:42,667 I was on the phone with my boss in Geneva, 823 00:46:42,750 --> 00:46:47,750 and at one stage we passed two black cars. 824 00:46:47,834 --> 00:46:50,667 We were on a dirt track and we got to a junction 825 00:46:50,750 --> 00:46:52,000 where the road sort of widened 826 00:46:52,083 --> 00:46:55,625 and became a more normal road I guess, 827 00:46:55,709 --> 00:46:58,250 and that's where these cars who had been now behind us, 828 00:46:58,333 --> 00:46:59,917 sort of one of them overtook. 829 00:47:08,125 --> 00:47:13,500 They blocked us out, and these masked fighters jumped out and surrounded the car. 830 00:47:13,583 --> 00:47:16,417 I actually dropped the phone with my boss still on the line. 831 00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:18,500 I managed to say to him that we were getting kidnapped, 832 00:47:18,583 --> 00:47:20,333 that we had a problem. 833 00:47:20,417 --> 00:47:22,000 It all happened very, very quickly. 834 00:47:22,083 --> 00:47:24,875 I just have like flash recollections. 835 00:47:31,875 --> 00:47:35,875 I just remember the car, faced down on the ground, 836 00:47:35,959 --> 00:47:39,667 in the boot, David was put in just before me, 837 00:47:39,750 --> 00:47:41,709 and then they couldn't get the boot shut, 838 00:47:41,792 --> 00:47:45,667 and that's where I saw a guy on his bicycle, cycle past. 839 00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:48,667 You could see he was sort of like, 840 00:47:48,750 --> 00:47:51,625 but at the same time he just cycled continually. 841 00:47:51,709 --> 00:47:55,000 It just happened in a flash. 842 00:47:55,083 --> 00:47:58,917 The next thing you know, we're speeding away, very very fast. 843 00:48:03,667 --> 00:48:05,208 Haines: On my 16th birthday, 844 00:48:05,291 --> 00:48:07,000 I was actually in France with some friends. 845 00:48:07,083 --> 00:48:09,458 My dad would always contact me on my birthday, 846 00:48:09,542 --> 00:48:11,750 no matter where he was and it got later on at night 847 00:48:11,834 --> 00:48:13,583 and I thought, something's not right 848 00:48:13,667 --> 00:48:15,875 and I started to get a sinking feeling, 849 00:48:15,959 --> 00:48:18,375 so I phoned my mum quite upset and said to her, 850 00:48:18,458 --> 00:48:20,750 "Look I've got a really bad feeling. 851 00:48:20,834 --> 00:48:22,750 You need to find out what's happened." 852 00:48:22,834 --> 00:48:24,875 My head automatically assumed the worst, 853 00:48:24,959 --> 00:48:26,625 so when she said he was kidnapped 854 00:48:26,709 --> 00:48:29,041 it was actually a part of a relief 855 00:48:29,125 --> 00:48:31,375 to find out he hadn't been killed, 856 00:48:31,458 --> 00:48:33,083 but of course your mind goes everywhere. 857 00:48:33,166 --> 00:48:35,333 I thought why would someone kidnap someone 858 00:48:35,417 --> 00:48:37,959 who was only there to help. 859 00:48:43,875 --> 00:48:47,375 Walton: So Emwazi finds a way out to the new frontier, 860 00:48:47,458 --> 00:48:50,125 to the new global jihad in Syria, 861 00:48:50,208 --> 00:48:52,291 and very quickly finds a new mentor, 862 00:48:52,375 --> 00:48:54,333 a Chechen warlord called Shishani, 863 00:48:54,417 --> 00:48:58,709 who was leading the ground called K.A.M. within Syria, 864 00:48:58,792 --> 00:49:00,208 and it was really a breakaway group 865 00:49:00,291 --> 00:49:02,792 from Al-Qaeda or al-Nusra front. 866 00:49:02,875 --> 00:49:07,917 Verkaik: Shishani, a man who'd had war experience in Chechnya, 867 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,583 had developed a brutal reputation for committing atrocities, 868 00:49:12,667 --> 00:49:18,083 but who saw in Emwazi someone who would follow orders to the letter. 869 00:49:18,166 --> 00:49:20,417 Walton: Who would carry out almost any brutal act 870 00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:22,041 if directed to do so, 871 00:49:22,125 --> 00:49:25,000 and Emwazi became quite well-known and reliable, 872 00:49:25,083 --> 00:49:27,792 if you like, to the leadership of this new group. 873 00:49:27,875 --> 00:49:31,875 ( speaking in foreign language ) 874 00:49:38,875 --> 00:49:42,375 Verkaik: Kata'ib Al Muhajireen had become slightly fractured, 875 00:49:42,458 --> 00:49:45,333 half the group was aligned with Al-Qaeda, 876 00:49:45,417 --> 00:49:47,834 and the other half, led by Shishani, 877 00:49:47,917 --> 00:49:49,834 were more interested in making links 878 00:49:49,917 --> 00:49:53,083 with the emerging Islamic State as is now. 879 00:49:53,166 --> 00:49:56,875 And Shishani decided he would take his group 880 00:49:56,959 --> 00:50:00,750 to join the Islamic State, and with him... 881 00:50:01,875 --> 00:50:03,500 Mohammed Emwazi followed. 882 00:50:04,917 --> 00:50:06,250 El-Badawy: Once within Islamic State, 883 00:50:06,333 --> 00:50:07,959 Emwazi and Shishani are led 884 00:50:08,041 --> 00:50:10,917 by the Emir of Aleppo, Amr al-Absi. 885 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,834 Al-Absi's a seasoned terrorist 886 00:50:12,917 --> 00:50:15,291 and a close confident of the ISIS leader, 887 00:50:15,375 --> 00:50:16,917 Al Bakr Al-Baghdadi. 888 00:50:18,417 --> 00:50:19,959 Under the guidance of Al-Absi, 889 00:50:20,041 --> 00:50:22,875 Emwazi and Shishani, along with some UK recruits. 890 00:50:22,959 --> 00:50:26,375 Alexander Kotey, Aine Davis, and El Shafee El-sheik, 891 00:50:26,458 --> 00:50:29,709 started a mass hostage-taking campaign 892 00:50:29,792 --> 00:50:31,667 all across Northern Syria. 893 00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:34,667 With that, they captured hundreds of Syrian prisoners, 894 00:50:34,750 --> 00:50:39,709 but they also captured a very important group of western hostages. 895 00:50:39,792 --> 00:50:43,709 The Islamic State emirs felt that because of his loyalty 896 00:50:43,792 --> 00:50:45,542 and because of his willingness 897 00:50:45,625 --> 00:50:48,709 to carry out acts of brutality without question, 898 00:50:48,792 --> 00:50:51,333 Emwazi would be perfect for this, 899 00:50:51,417 --> 00:50:53,333 and perhaps they were right. 900 00:50:53,417 --> 00:50:56,375 So, Emwazi, this career jihadist, 901 00:50:56,458 --> 00:50:58,125 is moved through the ranks. 902 00:50:58,208 --> 00:51:01,166 He graduates effectively, suddenly with the opportunity 903 00:51:01,250 --> 00:51:04,667 to actually fulfill his dreams as a proper global jihadi. 904 00:51:14,291 --> 00:51:17,959 Henin: The faces of most of our guards, we haven't seen them. 905 00:51:18,041 --> 00:51:20,583 The funny thing is that we nicknamed them. 906 00:51:20,667 --> 00:51:22,375 It's a kind of coping mechanism. 907 00:51:22,458 --> 00:51:27,000 There is something you don't control, you bad guard. 908 00:51:27,083 --> 00:51:30,417 It is the name that I give to you, 909 00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:32,417 and this you will never control it. 910 00:51:32,500 --> 00:51:36,583 The most common name that were known through the media 911 00:51:36,667 --> 00:51:39,166 were, of course, The Beatles. 912 00:51:39,250 --> 00:51:40,959 The guys that we nicknamed The Beatles 913 00:51:41,041 --> 00:51:45,709 were British born, native British accents. 914 00:51:45,792 --> 00:51:47,083 And they were the first people 915 00:51:47,166 --> 00:51:48,834 that conversed with us in the car. 916 00:51:51,250 --> 00:51:53,375 When they'd taken our passports, I think, 917 00:51:53,458 --> 00:51:56,417 the very first thing was when they said, 918 00:51:56,500 --> 00:52:00,166 "David, welcome to Syria, you mutt," 919 00:52:00,250 --> 00:52:02,375 or something like that, 920 00:52:02,458 --> 00:52:04,083 'cause I think they'd looked through his passport 921 00:52:04,166 --> 00:52:07,625 and then they asked David if I spoke any English. 922 00:52:07,709 --> 00:52:09,875 Interviewer: So, they actually kidnapped you? 923 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:11,917 Yep. 924 00:52:14,208 --> 00:52:20,500 And so, they reappeared and reappeared throughout, 925 00:52:20,583 --> 00:52:22,583 um... 926 00:52:22,667 --> 00:52:24,375 that first month. 927 00:52:24,458 --> 00:52:29,000 Henin: So, the Beatles were obviously British hostage takers. 928 00:52:29,083 --> 00:52:31,959 We understood that they probably were friends 929 00:52:32,041 --> 00:52:34,583 even before arriving to Syria 930 00:52:34,667 --> 00:52:37,583 because they were very close. 931 00:52:37,667 --> 00:52:40,208 They were not always together, 932 00:52:40,291 --> 00:52:42,792 but most of the time at least two of them 933 00:52:42,875 --> 00:52:44,375 would come together. 934 00:52:44,458 --> 00:52:45,792 John was the boss. 935 00:52:45,875 --> 00:52:49,625 He was the one giving orders to the others. 936 00:52:49,709 --> 00:52:53,709 He was the one in charge of collecting the proofs of lives. 937 00:52:55,917 --> 00:52:58,917 George was the punisher. 938 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,083 He was the most violent in the group. 939 00:53:05,917 --> 00:53:07,583 I remember his, uh... 940 00:53:09,083 --> 00:53:11,583 fat hands, 941 00:53:11,667 --> 00:53:13,458 and the third one was Ringo. 942 00:53:14,792 --> 00:53:16,959 Ringo was the preacher. 943 00:53:17,041 --> 00:53:19,041 The less violent of these three. 944 00:53:19,125 --> 00:53:22,750 The one would from time to time explain to us 945 00:53:22,834 --> 00:53:25,417 why they were doing that. 946 00:53:25,500 --> 00:53:28,667 Emwazi was in control of what happened. 947 00:53:28,750 --> 00:53:32,041 I mean, he initiated and allowed a lot of our punishment, 948 00:53:32,125 --> 00:53:34,083 and he was very much involved. 949 00:53:34,166 --> 00:53:37,625 He also sort of set the tone for the guards. 950 00:53:37,709 --> 00:53:39,250 They took a lot of their inspiration 951 00:53:39,333 --> 00:53:42,875 from what they had heard about places like Abu Ghraib, 952 00:53:42,959 --> 00:53:46,542 and what the coalition forces in other countries had done. 953 00:53:46,625 --> 00:53:51,125 Guantanamo was referenced all the time 954 00:53:51,208 --> 00:53:52,792 by Emwazi, in particular. 955 00:53:52,875 --> 00:53:54,625 But the orange materials, 956 00:53:54,709 --> 00:53:59,166 at various stages we were wearing jumpsuits, all of us. 957 00:53:59,250 --> 00:54:01,917 And so things like stress positions, 958 00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,000 and not allowing us to sleep, just stand up all night. 959 00:54:07,417 --> 00:54:08,834 Things like that. 960 00:54:08,917 --> 00:54:13,750 Some of us received much more violence than others, 961 00:54:13,834 --> 00:54:18,417 and that was for reasons that I couldn't understand. 962 00:54:18,500 --> 00:54:21,500 We knew there were another two captives 963 00:54:21,583 --> 00:54:23,083 in the same location. 964 00:54:23,166 --> 00:54:25,709 You could hear their screams, and they could hear ours. 965 00:54:25,792 --> 00:54:28,458 And eventually we met them. 966 00:54:28,542 --> 00:54:31,208 It was James Foley and John Cantlie. 967 00:54:34,208 --> 00:54:36,375 And they put us into a cell to do a royal rumble. 968 00:54:36,458 --> 00:54:39,917 Basically, get us to fight against each other. 969 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,667 The cell that John and James were in, 970 00:54:42,750 --> 00:54:45,750 because the ceiling was so high at the top it had a latch. 971 00:54:45,834 --> 00:54:51,083 So, they brought us in and then went up to the top, 972 00:54:51,166 --> 00:54:53,834 and then were like giving us instructions about, 973 00:54:53,917 --> 00:54:57,166 and they were watching from above, 974 00:54:57,250 --> 00:54:59,792 and so they had Dave and me in one corner 975 00:54:59,875 --> 00:55:03,458 and John and James in the other and they wanted us to fight, 976 00:55:03,542 --> 00:55:04,667 and, like... 977 00:55:06,041 --> 00:55:08,208 we obviously weren't gonna fight each other, 978 00:55:08,291 --> 00:55:09,959 but you kinda couldn't not fight. 979 00:55:10,041 --> 00:55:12,166 I mean there was potential for punishment. 980 00:55:12,250 --> 00:55:14,500 I remember we sort of went through the motions initially, 981 00:55:14,583 --> 00:55:17,291 realized we couldn't 'cause they were saying if you don't start, 982 00:55:17,375 --> 00:55:21,792 you know, and you have to, we were like skeletons by then. 983 00:55:21,875 --> 00:55:25,750 I think every one of us fainted at some stage or another 984 00:55:25,834 --> 00:55:27,959 just from exhaustion. 985 00:55:28,041 --> 00:55:30,792 So, we weren't exactly hurting each other. 986 00:55:30,875 --> 00:55:33,166 But, they found it highly entertaining. 987 00:55:45,917 --> 00:55:49,875 ( speaking in foreign language ) 988 00:56:03,583 --> 00:56:06,875 Petraeus: Baghdadi has this extraordinary vision. 989 00:56:06,959 --> 00:56:11,917 He clearly has very impressive organizational skills, 990 00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,166 however twisted the ideology, 991 00:56:14,250 --> 00:56:17,166 however twisted the interpretation of Islam, 992 00:56:17,250 --> 00:56:19,208 however extreme the actions, 993 00:56:19,291 --> 00:56:22,208 but he does something truly extraordinary. 994 00:56:22,291 --> 00:56:25,667 Man: In 2014 we saw the Declaration of the Caliphate. 995 00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:28,041 It was directed to idealistic people, 996 00:56:28,125 --> 00:56:30,709 who wanted to live in the perfect state, 997 00:56:30,792 --> 00:56:33,250 and who had learnt since their childhood 998 00:56:33,333 --> 00:56:35,959 about this wonderful idea of the caliphate, 999 00:56:36,041 --> 00:56:39,375 which a lot of Muslims very much cherish, 1000 00:56:39,458 --> 00:56:40,750 including Muslims who would not have 1001 00:56:40,834 --> 00:56:44,083 the slightest sympathy with the likes of ISIS. 1002 00:56:44,166 --> 00:56:46,417 It was a bit of a chicken or an egg situation for ISIS. 1003 00:56:46,500 --> 00:56:49,667 It was establish the caliphate and then figure out a way 1004 00:56:49,750 --> 00:56:51,542 of making it work later on. 1005 00:56:51,625 --> 00:56:53,834 Announce it to the world and you would get attention 1006 00:56:53,917 --> 00:56:55,125 and people would flock. 1007 00:56:55,208 --> 00:56:59,458 ( speaking in foreign language ) 1008 00:57:08,834 --> 00:57:10,250 I think it's like grooming, 1009 00:57:10,333 --> 00:57:13,458 and even worse than that, because they are promising them, 1010 00:57:13,542 --> 00:57:15,792 and to the group, this is not us, 1011 00:57:15,875 --> 00:57:18,000 we are just passing the message of god. 1012 00:57:19,083 --> 00:57:21,125 This is an order from god. 1013 00:57:21,208 --> 00:57:24,291 Here is the Koranic verse telling you that you should go, 1014 00:57:24,375 --> 00:57:26,667 you should migrate to the caliphate. 1015 00:57:26,750 --> 00:57:29,291 You should leave the land of the Kuffr, which is Britain, 1016 00:57:29,375 --> 00:57:30,959 and go to the caliphate. 1017 00:57:31,041 --> 00:57:36,083 Propaganda was very well targeted to individual groups. 1018 00:57:36,166 --> 00:57:39,375 They'd be different videos for Australians, 1019 00:57:39,458 --> 00:57:41,458 for people in the Philippines, 1020 00:57:41,542 --> 00:57:44,667 for people who had specific interests. 1021 00:57:44,750 --> 00:57:47,875 Videos for young girls, videos for young boys. 1022 00:57:47,959 --> 00:57:49,792 Some would be very violent and horrifying, 1023 00:57:49,875 --> 00:57:53,625 some would have nothing, but soft focus pictures 1024 00:57:53,709 --> 00:57:55,959 of the golden corn being reaped 1025 00:57:56,041 --> 00:57:59,542 and the beautiful fish being brought in on the fishing boat. 1026 00:57:59,625 --> 00:58:02,709 El-Badawy: The videos are there to make them actually 1027 00:58:02,792 --> 00:58:04,083 feel some positive emotion. 1028 00:58:04,166 --> 00:58:06,291 So for example, getting them to feel 1029 00:58:06,375 --> 00:58:08,458 that there's a sense of solidarity 1030 00:58:08,542 --> 00:58:12,875 amongst the ranks of ISIS, and that brotherly comradeship. 1031 00:58:12,959 --> 00:58:16,792 And all of this gives the audience an impression 1032 00:58:16,875 --> 00:58:20,667 that this is the non-trivial world. 1033 00:58:20,750 --> 00:58:24,667 That in living with ISIS, you will actually start 1034 00:58:24,750 --> 00:58:26,625 to feel a sense of purpose. 1035 00:58:26,709 --> 00:58:28,834 It is not just about killing people, 1036 00:58:28,917 --> 00:58:30,583 but there's a wider cause 1037 00:58:30,667 --> 00:58:32,917 that you're sacrificing your life for. 1038 00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:37,834 Anderson: That, in a way, was one of ISIS' unique selling points. 1039 00:58:37,917 --> 00:58:40,834 They had as they would put it a country to sell, 1040 00:58:40,917 --> 00:58:43,625 and they were able to present it as a country 1041 00:58:43,709 --> 00:58:45,125 where you might want to live. 1042 00:58:45,208 --> 00:58:46,667 You would look at some of it and think, 1043 00:58:46,750 --> 00:58:48,500 well, I'd like to go and live there. 1044 00:58:48,583 --> 00:58:51,709 If you believed it, you would want to go and live there. 1045 00:58:51,792 --> 00:58:53,625 And so many people, particularly young people, 1046 00:58:53,709 --> 00:58:57,375 went out there on the basis of that dream 1047 00:58:57,458 --> 00:59:00,417 that the propagandists had put together. 1048 00:59:06,667 --> 00:59:09,000 Motka: There was a lot of talk around the fact 1049 00:59:09,083 --> 00:59:10,709 that there was an Islamic State now, 1050 00:59:10,792 --> 00:59:12,792 that we were prisoners of a state, 1051 00:59:12,875 --> 00:59:15,375 therefore, there were rules. 1052 00:59:15,458 --> 00:59:19,500 Henin: I spent a couple of weeks in a cell on my own, 1053 00:59:19,583 --> 00:59:21,625 and then at the end of the year, 1054 00:59:21,709 --> 00:59:26,166 we are 19 men in the same cell. 1055 00:59:26,250 --> 00:59:27,875 Being in a group is hard too. 1056 00:59:27,959 --> 00:59:31,583 I mean you're whatever number of grown men in a tiny room, 1057 00:59:31,667 --> 00:59:35,875 foot-to-toe in terms of how you sleep, 1058 00:59:35,959 --> 00:59:37,208 right next to each other. 1059 00:59:37,291 --> 00:59:38,542 For a couple of months, 1060 00:59:38,625 --> 00:59:41,667 the Beatles were not violent with us. 1061 00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:44,250 It was more like an enterprise, 1062 00:59:44,333 --> 00:59:46,875 so you don't damage the merchandise. 1063 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,208 Some of the proofs of lives were obtained 1064 00:59:49,291 --> 00:59:50,917 in a neighboring room. 1065 00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,917 Jihadi John would then be the one directing the filming. 1066 00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,291 So he would give us the instructions. 1067 00:59:57,375 --> 01:00:00,333 "Okay, you arrive this side, you say that, 1068 01:00:00,417 --> 01:00:02,208 and then you stand up and leave the frame." 1069 01:00:02,291 --> 01:00:05,333 And... he would stand next to the camera, 1070 01:00:05,417 --> 01:00:09,000 and there would be another Beatle behind the camera... 1071 01:00:10,041 --> 01:00:11,959 just pressing the button. 1072 01:00:16,250 --> 01:00:18,041 News reporter: There have also been fresh clashes 1073 01:00:18,125 --> 01:00:20,667 in the rebel enclave of Aleppo, Syria's second city, 1074 01:00:20,750 --> 01:00:23,083 and once its commercial heart. 1075 01:00:23,166 --> 01:00:26,000 ( tanks firing ) 1076 01:00:26,083 --> 01:00:28,500 El-Badawy: As ISIS begin to lose control of Aleppo, 1077 01:00:28,583 --> 01:00:31,583 Al-Absi, Emwazi, and his fellow Beatles flee 1078 01:00:31,667 --> 01:00:34,875 to the safety of the state's de facto capital, Raqqa. 1079 01:00:36,250 --> 01:00:39,291 Before fleeing, they kill around 300 1080 01:00:39,375 --> 01:00:41,125 of the Syrian prisoners, 1081 01:00:41,208 --> 01:00:42,542 but they keep hold of their precious cargo 1082 01:00:42,625 --> 01:00:43,667 of Western hostages. 1083 01:00:45,417 --> 01:00:47,750 Once they're in Raqqa, Baghdadi appoints Al-Absi 1084 01:00:47,834 --> 01:00:50,750 to oversee the state's media department. 1085 01:00:50,834 --> 01:00:52,500 This position gives Al-Absi and his cell, 1086 01:00:52,583 --> 01:00:54,875 which includes Emwazi, 1087 01:00:54,959 --> 01:00:56,834 ample opportunity to reek havoc 1088 01:00:56,917 --> 01:00:58,959 using the hostages that remain. 1089 01:00:59,041 --> 01:01:03,375 ( speaking in foreign language ) 1090 01:01:11,250 --> 01:01:13,625 Man: I appeal to the people who have Jim 1091 01:01:13,709 --> 01:01:15,542 to give us some information 1092 01:01:15,625 --> 01:01:18,125 in terms of his welfare, his health. 1093 01:01:18,208 --> 01:01:23,000 I tried very hard to remind our government 1094 01:01:23,083 --> 01:01:28,375 that Jim was alive, but we really didn't receive much help. 1095 01:01:28,458 --> 01:01:31,250 We received an email from his captors, 1096 01:01:31,333 --> 01:01:35,208 they asked for proof-of-life questions, 1097 01:01:35,291 --> 01:01:39,041 so they could assure us they had Jim, 1098 01:01:39,125 --> 01:01:42,000 and we were very excited to hear from them. 1099 01:01:42,083 --> 01:01:43,834 I mean of course there was the proofs of life 1100 01:01:43,917 --> 01:01:46,041 where like the one thing that sort of said 1101 01:01:46,125 --> 01:01:50,041 there's obviously something going on. 1102 01:01:50,125 --> 01:01:55,041 I mean, we all were aware of various government positions on this issue. 1103 01:01:55,125 --> 01:01:58,375 Well, we don't negotiate with terrorists or pay ransoms 1104 01:01:58,458 --> 01:02:01,208 or pursue those kinds of activities 1105 01:02:01,291 --> 01:02:03,875 because it just begets more terrorism, 1106 01:02:03,959 --> 01:02:05,709 it encourages more actions. 1107 01:02:05,792 --> 01:02:09,583 But of course, it's a very difficult policy to explain 1108 01:02:09,667 --> 01:02:13,166 to the loved ones of someone who has been kidnapped 1109 01:02:13,250 --> 01:02:15,917 and of course the overall policy objective, 1110 01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,625 I think even they can understand why, 1111 01:02:18,709 --> 01:02:21,542 but of course they want an exception in their case. 1112 01:02:21,625 --> 01:02:24,709 We were back and forth on email for about a month 1113 01:02:24,792 --> 01:02:28,458 and then they cut off all communication after that. 1114 01:02:28,542 --> 01:02:32,458 So it was kind of a tease, if you will. 1115 01:02:34,166 --> 01:02:35,792 Motka: Dave and I always believed that 1116 01:02:35,875 --> 01:02:38,583 because we were taken together, there was a good chance 1117 01:02:38,667 --> 01:02:41,083 that we would be negotiated for together. 1118 01:02:41,166 --> 01:02:43,500 I genuinely believed that there was an option 1119 01:02:43,583 --> 01:02:46,333 and then the moment that you realized... 1120 01:02:48,333 --> 01:02:51,166 that I realized, through that sort of 1121 01:02:51,250 --> 01:02:53,834 final proof-of-life process... 1122 01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:56,834 that this was only for me. 1123 01:02:59,166 --> 01:03:04,959 It was probably one of the most bittersweet... 1124 01:03:06,208 --> 01:03:10,917 um... emotions I think I've ever had. 1125 01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,375 When they eventually came to the room and said, 1126 01:03:13,458 --> 01:03:17,625 "Okay, the four French here, come and we were blindfold, 1127 01:03:17,709 --> 01:03:20,625 handcuffs, and we take you out." 1128 01:03:20,709 --> 01:03:25,417 It was like, I just had time to say well goodbye everybody. 1129 01:03:25,500 --> 01:03:29,583 We had no time for big hugs or whatever. 1130 01:03:29,667 --> 01:03:32,542 For some reason the day that I was picked up, 1131 01:03:32,625 --> 01:03:35,291 the Beatles were super aggressive. 1132 01:03:35,375 --> 01:03:38,000 They pulled me into the center, then they tried to, 1133 01:03:38,083 --> 01:03:41,250 they gave me a beating, but then they took it out 1134 01:03:41,333 --> 01:03:44,083 on everyone around as well. 1135 01:03:44,166 --> 01:03:47,500 And just before they put the blanket over my head, 1136 01:03:47,583 --> 01:03:52,041 they made me go back to the door, and sort of say... 1137 01:03:52,125 --> 01:03:56,709 "and say goodbye to your friends," or something like that. 1138 01:03:56,792 --> 01:03:59,834 Henin: Normally when you are taken hostage, 1139 01:03:59,917 --> 01:04:02,625 once you are released you are free. 1140 01:04:02,709 --> 01:04:06,542 But in our case, when were released, 1141 01:04:06,625 --> 01:04:09,542 we left 15 pals behind us. 1142 01:04:09,625 --> 01:04:14,667 You know these guys aren't just people or friends, 1143 01:04:14,750 --> 01:04:17,166 they're brothers. 1144 01:04:17,250 --> 01:04:19,458 And I think I spent more time sleeping next to David 1145 01:04:19,542 --> 01:04:23,291 than any girl at that point in my life. 1146 01:04:23,375 --> 01:04:27,375 ( helicopter blades whirling ) 1147 01:04:27,458 --> 01:04:30,667 ( applauding ) 1148 01:04:30,750 --> 01:04:34,250 Foley: We were very hopeful when the Spanish hostages 1149 01:04:34,333 --> 01:04:36,208 were released in February. 1150 01:04:36,291 --> 01:04:39,166 Shortly thereafter, the French were released, 1151 01:04:39,250 --> 01:04:41,583 and so we were incredibly hopeful. 1152 01:04:41,667 --> 01:04:44,375 They told us that Jim was alive and well, 1153 01:04:44,458 --> 01:04:47,917 and strong, and were very encouraging. 1154 01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:54,250 And I actually returned to France in July of 2014, 1155 01:04:54,333 --> 01:04:57,375 hoping to get some help from France. 1156 01:04:57,458 --> 01:04:58,875 It was while I was in Paris 1157 01:04:58,959 --> 01:05:02,208 that we received the threatening email. 1158 01:05:02,291 --> 01:05:03,959 Threatening to kill Jim. 1159 01:05:04,041 --> 01:05:06,667 I was hopeful they were back in touch, 1160 01:05:06,750 --> 01:05:09,667 but again I was very naive. 1161 01:05:09,750 --> 01:05:12,875 I don't know if they ever desired to negotiate. 1162 01:05:12,959 --> 01:05:14,417 It's hard to know... 1163 01:05:15,583 --> 01:05:17,667 but certainly not at that hour... 1164 01:05:17,750 --> 01:05:19,125 they weren't. 1165 01:05:19,208 --> 01:05:20,709 I think they had come to realize 1166 01:05:20,792 --> 01:05:24,625 that Jim was worth more as propaganda. 1167 01:05:33,875 --> 01:05:35,959 I call on my friends, family and loved ones 1168 01:05:36,041 --> 01:05:39,333 to rise up against my real killers, the U.S. government. 1169 01:05:45,750 --> 01:05:48,208 I was totally unaware of it 1170 01:05:48,291 --> 01:05:51,667 until an AP reporter 1171 01:05:51,750 --> 01:05:53,792 called me sobbing... 1172 01:05:55,417 --> 01:05:59,750 and I couldn't even understand what she was crying about, 1173 01:05:59,834 --> 01:06:02,875 and she told me to look on Twitter. 1174 01:06:04,709 --> 01:06:07,625 So that's when I saw the image 1175 01:06:07,709 --> 01:06:09,375 and... 1176 01:06:10,750 --> 01:06:12,625 I knew it was Jim... 1177 01:06:12,709 --> 01:06:15,583 and... that's how I found out. 1178 01:06:15,667 --> 01:06:18,542 I didn't know if it was authentic, 1179 01:06:18,625 --> 01:06:22,709 and so I reached out to our FBI agent, 1180 01:06:22,792 --> 01:06:25,875 but really didn't hear back from anybody. 1181 01:06:27,417 --> 01:06:29,875 So, I didn't know if it was true 1182 01:06:29,959 --> 01:06:35,375 until the president announced it that evening on TV. 1183 01:06:38,792 --> 01:06:42,375 So it was... you know... 1184 01:06:43,375 --> 01:06:44,875 it was, um... 1185 01:06:46,750 --> 01:06:47,792 it was awful. 1186 01:06:48,875 --> 01:06:51,125 It was really very difficult. 1187 01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:58,583 The last time I saw James and David 1188 01:06:58,667 --> 01:07:02,417 and a lot of the others was when the videos came out. 1189 01:07:03,834 --> 01:07:08,166 And then the message to America, it was, it said... 1190 01:07:08,250 --> 01:07:11,959 I don't like to use their words. 1191 01:07:12,041 --> 01:07:15,667 I like to, uh, be, uh... 1192 01:07:15,750 --> 01:07:18,542 precise and factual. 1193 01:07:18,625 --> 01:07:21,667 That was a... 1194 01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:23,500 filmed murder. 1195 01:07:23,583 --> 01:07:24,709 That's it. 1196 01:07:29,458 --> 01:07:31,000 Of an innocent journalist. 1197 01:07:34,750 --> 01:07:35,959 Of a hostage. 1198 01:07:39,250 --> 01:07:40,458 But, um... 1199 01:07:43,458 --> 01:07:44,500 Yeah. 1200 01:07:48,750 --> 01:07:49,750 I would say... 1201 01:07:51,709 --> 01:07:53,125 we were told... 1202 01:07:55,875 --> 01:07:58,417 and then once the first one came out, 1203 01:07:58,500 --> 01:08:00,667 sort of... 1204 01:08:00,750 --> 01:08:03,291 there was the threat of the second, the next. 1205 01:08:15,792 --> 01:08:18,875 So then after that you know, it's just... 1206 01:08:20,542 --> 01:08:21,583 will it, won't it, 1207 01:08:21,667 --> 01:08:23,291 and then the second... 1208 01:08:25,917 --> 01:08:27,667 and, yeah, it was just... 1209 01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:35,917 Henin: David was a very complex and interesting character. 1210 01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,792 Very smart. 1211 01:08:39,583 --> 01:08:42,792 Very good at understanding people. 1212 01:08:43,959 --> 01:08:45,583 Very supportive, also. 1213 01:08:45,667 --> 01:08:49,041 Motka: Generally, we were all very close as a group, 1214 01:08:49,125 --> 01:08:52,959 but of course everyone has maybe one individual 1215 01:08:53,041 --> 01:08:54,875 that they would turn to... 1216 01:08:57,417 --> 01:08:59,583 and for me that was Dave. 1217 01:09:01,083 --> 01:09:03,834 Um... you know he, he... 1218 01:09:08,792 --> 01:09:10,375 I hope I was of... 1219 01:09:13,458 --> 01:09:14,959 of help to him. 1220 01:09:15,041 --> 01:09:16,208 Um... 1221 01:09:17,417 --> 01:09:21,417 But, I know, I think I was... 1222 01:09:21,500 --> 01:09:22,875 able to sort of 1223 01:09:22,959 --> 01:09:26,166 give what I could, and I think everyone did the same. 1224 01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,792 ( sirens whirling ) 1225 01:09:41,625 --> 01:09:44,291 Haines: I had been at my boyfriend's house that night, 1226 01:09:44,375 --> 01:09:46,500 and he lives in the middle of nowhere, 1227 01:09:46,583 --> 01:09:48,709 next thing I know there's a knock at the door 1228 01:09:48,792 --> 01:09:51,500 and all I can remember is seeing the blue flashing lights 1229 01:09:51,583 --> 01:09:52,917 reflected in the window. 1230 01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:54,208 I still didn't click on. 1231 01:09:54,291 --> 01:09:55,875 I thought I had done something wrong. 1232 01:09:55,959 --> 01:09:57,792 I was terrified, thinking what am I going to tell my mum 1233 01:09:57,875 --> 01:09:59,625 when I'm in the back of a police car. 1234 01:09:59,709 --> 01:10:02,834 And then I heard her voice, and my boyfriend said, 1235 01:10:02,917 --> 01:10:04,083 "Is it her dad?" 1236 01:10:04,166 --> 01:10:05,417 My mum said yeah. 1237 01:10:06,583 --> 01:10:08,417 And I remember deliberately taking ages 1238 01:10:08,500 --> 01:10:09,875 to come out of the room 1239 01:10:09,959 --> 01:10:11,208 'cause I knew what was going to come, 1240 01:10:11,291 --> 01:10:12,792 and I just didn't want to hear it, 1241 01:10:12,875 --> 01:10:16,667 and my mum had said to me a video had been released. 1242 01:10:16,750 --> 01:10:18,166 "It's of your dad." 1243 01:10:18,250 --> 01:10:21,542 And that was the moment that I found out 1244 01:10:21,625 --> 01:10:24,291 that my dad certainly wouldn't be coming home. 1245 01:10:33,417 --> 01:10:35,417 My name is David Cawthorne Haines. 1246 01:10:44,291 --> 01:10:46,083 Haines: It took me months to be able to cry. 1247 01:10:46,166 --> 01:10:48,959 I didn't feel any kind of sadness. 1248 01:10:49,041 --> 01:10:50,500 It was anger... 1249 01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:53,291 and then there was also hope. 1250 01:10:53,375 --> 01:10:55,750 Hope that the others would get out, 1251 01:10:55,834 --> 01:10:58,417 such as Alan Henning, Peter Kassig. 1252 01:10:58,500 --> 01:11:01,291 We all prayed and hoped that they would get out. 1253 01:11:01,375 --> 01:11:04,750 Walton: So there was public pressure to name this individual, 1254 01:11:04,834 --> 01:11:07,583 but we knew that if we were to name Emwazi, 1255 01:11:07,667 --> 01:11:11,667 there was a high risk that he would conduct more murders 1256 01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:13,792 and more beheadings of hostages. 1257 01:11:13,875 --> 01:11:15,542 In James Foley's video, 1258 01:11:15,625 --> 01:11:17,917 obviously Steven Sotloff was featured at the end. 1259 01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,458 Emwazi: The life of this American citizen, Obama, 1260 01:11:20,542 --> 01:11:22,417 depends on your next decision. 1261 01:11:22,500 --> 01:11:23,667 And then the next video, it's my dad, 1262 01:11:23,750 --> 01:11:25,625 and the one after it was Alan. 1263 01:11:25,709 --> 01:11:27,458 Emwazi: If you, Cameron, persist 1264 01:11:27,542 --> 01:11:28,875 in fighting the Islamic State, 1265 01:11:28,959 --> 01:11:30,917 then you, like your master Obama, 1266 01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,083 will have the blood of your people on your hands. 1267 01:11:34,166 --> 01:11:38,458 At the time that Jihadi John had killed his third hostage, 1268 01:11:38,542 --> 01:11:40,709 all you're able to see then, is that this is the third, 1269 01:11:40,792 --> 01:11:43,291 and how many more of these are there going to be? 1270 01:11:43,375 --> 01:11:46,250 What terrorists want above all is a reaction, 1271 01:11:46,333 --> 01:11:51,083 and ISIS, and in particular Jihadi John and his mates, 1272 01:11:51,166 --> 01:11:54,041 spent the summer of 2014 seeking a reaction. 1273 01:11:54,125 --> 01:11:57,458 You had this sequence of increasingly grisly videos. 1274 01:11:57,542 --> 01:12:00,750 They were very, very skillful propaganda. 1275 01:12:00,834 --> 01:12:05,875 They recreated the medieval barbarity of the 7th century 1276 01:12:05,959 --> 01:12:07,625 with these great bladed weapons, 1277 01:12:07,709 --> 01:12:10,583 the beheadings, it was all on the sands of the desert 1278 01:12:10,667 --> 01:12:13,667 and the world's media I am afraid fell for it. 1279 01:12:13,750 --> 01:12:16,166 And of course, with the level of interest 1280 01:12:16,250 --> 01:12:17,625 and the level of coverage, 1281 01:12:17,709 --> 01:12:20,125 the level of fear went up as well. 1282 01:12:20,208 --> 01:12:22,166 Images were released showing the beheading 1283 01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:24,125 of American journalist James Foley. 1284 01:12:24,208 --> 01:12:26,291 Today the entire world is appalled. 1285 01:12:26,375 --> 01:12:27,834 It is an act of murder. 1286 01:12:27,917 --> 01:12:30,333 The video is too graphic for us to show. 1287 01:12:30,417 --> 01:12:34,709 And it also speaks to how barbaric 1288 01:12:34,792 --> 01:12:36,041 and gruesome this can all be. 1289 01:12:36,125 --> 01:12:38,166 Reporter: All eyes are on his eyes. 1290 01:12:38,250 --> 01:12:41,083 Again speaking in English with a British accent. 1291 01:12:42,083 --> 01:12:45,250 I recognized John, for sure. 1292 01:12:47,250 --> 01:12:48,917 The John I met there, 1293 01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:50,834 ( mumbles ) 1294 01:12:50,917 --> 01:12:53,667 I recognized his voice. 1295 01:12:53,750 --> 01:12:57,667 I recognize his style. 1296 01:12:57,750 --> 01:12:59,458 People across this country 1297 01:12:59,542 --> 01:13:01,750 would have been sickened by the fact 1298 01:13:01,834 --> 01:13:04,709 that it could have been a British citizen, 1299 01:13:04,792 --> 01:13:07,792 a British citizen who could have carried out 1300 01:13:07,875 --> 01:13:10,208 this unspeakable act. 1301 01:13:10,291 --> 01:13:11,709 Somebody must have decided 1302 01:13:11,792 --> 01:13:14,875 that allowing Emwazi who was relatively junior, 1303 01:13:14,959 --> 01:13:19,458 to be filmed executing hostages 1304 01:13:19,542 --> 01:13:22,583 was going to be a good and powerful idea. 1305 01:13:22,667 --> 01:13:26,000 And if you look at Emwazi as an adversary, 1306 01:13:26,083 --> 01:13:30,750 he certainly wasn't a glorious battlefield commander, 1307 01:13:30,834 --> 01:13:32,417 he wasn't that. 1308 01:13:32,500 --> 01:13:37,625 He wasn't high in the ISIS hierarchy such as it was, 1309 01:13:37,709 --> 01:13:39,375 but he was a powerful 1310 01:13:39,458 --> 01:13:43,542 and credible adversary nonetheless. 1311 01:13:43,625 --> 01:13:44,667 Why? 1312 01:13:45,917 --> 01:13:47,583 He was from us. 1313 01:13:47,667 --> 01:13:49,792 He was of us. 1314 01:13:49,875 --> 01:13:52,834 And so, he knew us instinctively. 1315 01:13:57,333 --> 01:13:59,625 Emwazi: The blood of David Haines is on your hands Cameron. 1316 01:13:59,709 --> 01:14:02,250 Alan Henning will also be slaughtered, 1317 01:14:02,333 --> 01:14:05,333 but his blood is on the hand of the British parliament. 1318 01:14:12,041 --> 01:14:14,667 With each video there was a sense 1319 01:14:14,750 --> 01:14:17,375 of this is getting slightly out of control. 1320 01:14:17,458 --> 01:14:21,000 How is it that we're losing the power dynamic here? 1321 01:14:21,083 --> 01:14:24,625 Verkaik: This is Emwazi telling the world about not just 1322 01:14:24,709 --> 01:14:28,792 what the Islamic State think of America and Britain, 1323 01:14:28,875 --> 01:14:31,041 this is Mohammed Emwazi telling the world 1324 01:14:31,125 --> 01:14:34,333 what he thinks about Britain and America. 1325 01:14:34,417 --> 01:14:37,000 This is his very own personal message, 1326 01:14:37,083 --> 01:14:42,333 and the venomous tone and the snarling attacks 1327 01:14:42,417 --> 01:14:47,834 on Obama and Cameron, I think, are very much Mohammed Emwazi. 1328 01:14:47,917 --> 01:14:49,834 ( Mohammed Emwazi speaking ) 1329 01:14:57,583 --> 01:14:59,083 Emwazi: I'm back, Obama, 1330 01:14:59,166 --> 01:15:01,000 and I'm back because of your arrogant foreign policy 1331 01:15:01,083 --> 01:15:03,333 towards the Islamic State. 1332 01:15:03,417 --> 01:15:06,417 And politicians will always want to try and present 1333 01:15:06,500 --> 01:15:08,875 the situation as one of being in control, 1334 01:15:08,959 --> 01:15:11,000 but we clearly weren't in control. 1335 01:15:11,083 --> 01:15:14,000 Man: I think those awful images cut right through 1336 01:15:14,083 --> 01:15:16,750 to the American public in the relative sanctuary 1337 01:15:16,834 --> 01:15:19,250 we felt emotionally before 9/11, 1338 01:15:19,333 --> 01:15:21,000 and then we had 9/11 and it was like, 1339 01:15:21,083 --> 01:15:25,417 oh, this was such a shock, and then the war in Afghanistan, 1340 01:15:25,500 --> 01:15:27,500 and then Iraq. 1341 01:15:27,583 --> 01:15:29,083 So you have a war-weary American public, 1342 01:15:29,166 --> 01:15:32,500 and then this horrific scene of an American man murdered 1343 01:15:32,583 --> 01:15:35,625 for the world to see, so I think it really had America 1344 01:15:35,709 --> 01:15:38,709 torn about what to go do. 1345 01:15:38,792 --> 01:15:43,625 If you threaten America, you will find no safe haven. 1346 01:15:43,709 --> 01:15:45,125 The next ISIS video comes out, 1347 01:15:45,208 --> 01:15:46,834 the next ISIS beheading comes out. 1348 01:15:46,917 --> 01:15:48,291 Jihadi John's on TV again. 1349 01:15:48,375 --> 01:15:50,709 "Bakr Al Baghdadi said this." 1350 01:15:50,792 --> 01:15:52,041 You know all these... 1351 01:15:52,125 --> 01:15:54,750 So there was just this wave of information. 1352 01:15:54,834 --> 01:15:56,166 It seemed like we were losing. 1353 01:15:56,250 --> 01:15:59,500 Now I tell you we never were losing in my mind, 1354 01:15:59,583 --> 01:16:01,583 but it sure did seem that way at a few points. 1355 01:16:01,667 --> 01:16:03,417 Civil society will be asking its government, 1356 01:16:03,500 --> 01:16:06,917 well why is this happening and why can't you stop it, 1357 01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:08,875 and what does it mean for our relationships 1358 01:16:08,959 --> 01:16:11,291 with our fellow citizens of different faiths. 1359 01:16:11,375 --> 01:16:13,500 So whatever the substance of these issues, 1360 01:16:13,583 --> 01:16:16,208 this is just one man doing brutal things 1361 01:16:16,291 --> 01:16:17,583 in another part of the world. 1362 01:16:17,667 --> 01:16:21,291 The effect on politics and society is profound. 1363 01:16:21,375 --> 01:16:23,625 Hannigan: The prime minister made it very clear 1364 01:16:23,709 --> 01:16:26,625 that we had a responsibility to these British citizens. 1365 01:16:26,709 --> 01:16:28,917 He took it as a high priority 1366 01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:30,875 and instructed us to take it as a high priority. 1367 01:16:35,333 --> 01:16:41,500 For us at GCHQ, this was a largely desk screen-based campaign. 1368 01:16:41,583 --> 01:16:44,250 In Afghanistan we could climb up towers 1369 01:16:44,333 --> 01:16:46,208 and do all the things we need to do on the ground. 1370 01:16:46,291 --> 01:16:48,083 None of that was possible in Raqqa. 1371 01:16:48,166 --> 01:16:51,000 If you looked at a picture of Raqqa, 1372 01:16:51,083 --> 01:16:53,959 you would see these little V-Sat terminals, 1373 01:16:54,041 --> 01:16:56,083 so these little satellite dishes all over the roofs. 1374 01:16:56,166 --> 01:16:59,917 And they were connecting direct to the internet in practice, 1375 01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,542 and that's the way that people were communicating. 1376 01:17:02,625 --> 01:17:07,208 They were not using telephone company, GSM networks, because they didn't trust them. 1377 01:17:07,291 --> 01:17:09,542 Warren: Mohammed Emwazi, look, he'd been reading the newspaper 1378 01:17:09,625 --> 01:17:11,125 and watching TV just like the rest of us. 1379 01:17:11,208 --> 01:17:14,625 He knows that we're coming after him. 1380 01:17:14,709 --> 01:17:19,000 He went to great lengths to prevent being captured. 1381 01:17:21,083 --> 01:17:22,291 He was an interesting case 1382 01:17:22,375 --> 01:17:25,250 because he had studied computer science 1383 01:17:25,333 --> 01:17:27,500 and he had been in the IT business. 1384 01:17:27,583 --> 01:17:29,208 He had clearly taught himself a lot. 1385 01:17:29,291 --> 01:17:31,125 He understood, therefore, the best way 1386 01:17:31,208 --> 01:17:34,667 to avoid surveillance and was good at it. 1387 01:17:36,125 --> 01:17:39,250 He communicated very rarely, and when he did, 1388 01:17:39,333 --> 01:17:41,125 mostly around the hostages, 1389 01:17:41,208 --> 01:17:46,041 he used a whole series of commercially available products 1390 01:17:46,125 --> 01:17:50,542 to obscure his identity, including very strong encryption, 1391 01:17:50,625 --> 01:17:52,875 and including virtual private networks. 1392 01:17:52,959 --> 01:17:55,500 Any one of those products would be very, very difficult 1393 01:17:55,583 --> 01:17:57,125 for an agency to tackle. 1394 01:17:57,208 --> 01:17:59,709 What he was doing was layering them on top of each other. 1395 01:17:59,792 --> 01:18:04,000 Any agency's ambition, if they can find the machine 1396 01:18:04,083 --> 01:18:07,041 that a terrorist is using, is to put something on to it 1397 01:18:07,125 --> 01:18:09,709 which will stay there and communicate back 1398 01:18:09,792 --> 01:18:11,333 what that person is doing. 1399 01:18:11,417 --> 01:18:15,458 What Emwazi was able to do was to ensure 1400 01:18:15,542 --> 01:18:17,500 that every time he switched off his machine 1401 01:18:17,583 --> 01:18:20,709 it was wiped of anything and everything, 1402 01:18:20,792 --> 01:18:22,959 and that made it extremely difficult 1403 01:18:23,041 --> 01:18:25,667 and very, very time consuming to do anything really 1404 01:18:25,750 --> 01:18:27,667 with his communications. 1405 01:18:27,750 --> 01:18:29,667 It's never straightforward 1406 01:18:29,750 --> 01:18:32,583 and it can take a very, very long time 1407 01:18:32,667 --> 01:18:35,458 and in this case, of course, it did take a long time. 1408 01:18:39,041 --> 01:18:43,375 Obama, you have started your aerial bombardment in Sham, 1409 01:18:43,458 --> 01:18:45,333 which keeps on striking our people. 1410 01:18:45,417 --> 01:18:47,041 So it's only right we continue 1411 01:18:47,125 --> 01:18:49,417 to strike the necks of your people. 1412 01:18:54,291 --> 01:18:56,041 Warren: Every single time he would do something, 1413 01:18:56,125 --> 01:18:58,917 we would see a significant spike in social media activity 1414 01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:01,250 surrounding ISIS. 1415 01:19:01,333 --> 01:19:02,834 We would see a significant spike 1416 01:19:02,917 --> 01:19:05,375 in recruiting success for ISIS. 1417 01:19:05,458 --> 01:19:07,041 Know that you can't fight any of those things 1418 01:19:07,125 --> 01:19:08,792 with bombs and bullets. 1419 01:19:08,875 --> 01:19:11,250 Those types of things had to be fought with information. 1420 01:19:11,333 --> 01:19:13,250 And this was my responsibility, 1421 01:19:14,542 --> 01:19:17,500 to try to counter his atrocities. 1422 01:19:17,583 --> 01:19:22,959 You have here an ordinary young British man 1423 01:19:23,041 --> 01:19:26,625 who left London and went into Syria. 1424 01:19:30,125 --> 01:19:32,667 Who is now appearing on the TV, 1425 01:19:32,750 --> 01:19:35,583 slaughtering people's life. 1426 01:19:35,667 --> 01:19:39,500 Obviously, this had a huge impact on many young Muslims, 1427 01:19:39,583 --> 01:19:43,208 so that, "Wow, I am sitting here in London," 1428 01:19:43,291 --> 01:19:44,583 or "I'm sitting here in Birmingham, 1429 01:19:44,667 --> 01:19:46,083 I am sitting here in Manchester," 1430 01:19:46,166 --> 01:19:49,250 and that he is out there doing the fight. 1431 01:19:49,333 --> 01:19:51,709 Not only he is doing it, but doing it in a way 1432 01:19:51,792 --> 01:19:55,917 that is very much a Hollywood way of dramatizing things. 1433 01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,333 Jesse Morton: That attracted the concern of non-Muslims 1434 01:19:58,417 --> 01:20:01,125 that are also looking for a reason to denounce Islam. 1435 01:20:01,208 --> 01:20:03,583 If anybody wants to point to Islam as a religion 1436 01:20:03,667 --> 01:20:06,000 that breeds barbarity, it's Jihadi John. 1437 01:20:06,083 --> 01:20:09,834 It's a complete perfect example, as I was back in the day. 1438 01:20:09,917 --> 01:20:12,375 But this was an exorbitant level of violence. 1439 01:20:12,458 --> 01:20:15,333 This was a level of violence unseen before. 1440 01:20:15,417 --> 01:20:18,125 Mamadou Bocum: What Jihadi John did, in my opinion, 1441 01:20:18,208 --> 01:20:21,750 for the first time helped ordinary Muslims 1442 01:20:21,834 --> 01:20:24,875 to say, "Wow there is something that is not right." 1443 01:20:24,959 --> 01:20:27,625 I think these things always escalate, 1444 01:20:27,709 --> 01:20:30,625 so they started very brutal anyway, frankly, 1445 01:20:30,709 --> 01:20:32,458 the first execution video, 1446 01:20:32,542 --> 01:20:35,208 although it stopped short of showing the actual beheading, 1447 01:20:35,291 --> 01:20:37,500 was horrific in its own way. 1448 01:20:37,583 --> 01:20:40,959 But as time went on, for whatever reason, 1449 01:20:41,041 --> 01:20:44,625 they must have decided to take that self-censorship away 1450 01:20:44,709 --> 01:20:45,875 and just push it all out. 1451 01:20:45,959 --> 01:20:47,500 Clearly it did escalate up, 1452 01:20:47,583 --> 01:20:49,709 and the killing of the Jordanian pilot by fire 1453 01:20:49,792 --> 01:20:52,250 was particularly gruesome. 1454 01:20:52,333 --> 01:20:54,875 The turning point really was when they burned the pilot. 1455 01:20:54,959 --> 01:20:57,500 The prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him, 1456 01:20:57,583 --> 01:21:00,166 famously taught that only the lord of fire 1457 01:21:00,250 --> 01:21:01,834 can punish with fire. 1458 01:21:01,917 --> 01:21:04,333 El-Badawy: The burning of anything in Islam 1459 01:21:04,417 --> 01:21:07,166 that is a living being was completely forbidden, 1460 01:21:07,250 --> 01:21:09,959 and most Muslims would know that basic principal. 1461 01:21:10,041 --> 01:21:13,166 It was shot in a style that was pioneered by Emwazi, 1462 01:21:13,250 --> 01:21:15,208 and it's actually believed he was there 1463 01:21:15,291 --> 01:21:16,583 while it was being filmed. 1464 01:21:21,792 --> 01:21:23,917 And so this was a complete eye opening moment 1465 01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:26,750 where if anybody ever had an ounce of sympathy 1466 01:21:26,834 --> 01:21:29,041 that was Muslim for this group, 1467 01:21:29,125 --> 01:21:31,709 it was impossible to still continue 1468 01:21:31,792 --> 01:21:34,208 to believe that this group represented Islam. 1469 01:21:34,291 --> 01:21:35,834 ( speaking in foreign language ) 1470 01:21:35,917 --> 01:21:40,166 Translator: ...a criminal gang that has no relation 1471 01:21:40,250 --> 01:21:41,917 to our noble religion. 1472 01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:43,709 El-Badawy: The video of the pilot 1473 01:21:43,792 --> 01:21:45,709 illustrated the hubris of the group, 1474 01:21:45,792 --> 01:21:48,208 and it ultimately undermined the effectiveness 1475 01:21:48,291 --> 01:21:49,875 of the ISIS propaganda machine. 1476 01:21:49,959 --> 01:21:53,125 We will redouble the vigilance, 1477 01:21:53,208 --> 01:21:58,041 and determination on the part of a global coalition 1478 01:21:58,125 --> 01:22:02,417 to make sure that they are degraded and ultimately defeated. 1479 01:22:02,500 --> 01:22:07,000 By being able to engage in something so unthinkable 1480 01:22:07,083 --> 01:22:08,500 you attracted worldwide media, 1481 01:22:08,583 --> 01:22:10,000 you were in the media stream every day, 1482 01:22:10,083 --> 01:22:11,834 you were the complete concentration 1483 01:22:11,917 --> 01:22:14,250 of the entire international community, 1484 01:22:14,333 --> 01:22:16,500 you also made it much easier for people 1485 01:22:16,583 --> 01:22:19,583 to accept the fact that the state you claim to be defending 1486 01:22:19,667 --> 01:22:21,625 should be dismantled and should be bombed from above 1487 01:22:21,709 --> 01:22:24,000 and should incorporate a coalition against you. 1488 01:22:24,083 --> 01:22:25,583 So as a former propagandist, 1489 01:22:25,667 --> 01:22:28,041 I would say it was completely counterproductive. 1490 01:22:41,834 --> 01:22:43,291 Wise: What did Mohammed Emwazi mean 1491 01:22:43,375 --> 01:22:45,250 to those who were fighting the fight 1492 01:22:45,333 --> 01:22:47,875 against the Islamic State. 1493 01:22:47,959 --> 01:22:52,250 This hunt for Jihadi John was personal 1494 01:22:52,333 --> 01:22:55,417 and his nationality mattered not one wit. 1495 01:22:55,500 --> 01:22:57,792 For us, this was as personal 1496 01:22:57,875 --> 01:23:00,875 as if he'd been an American citizen. 1497 01:23:00,959 --> 01:23:06,875 What we needed to do was find, fix and finish Emwazi. 1498 01:23:06,959 --> 01:23:11,000 A very, very important target, and ultimately, of course, 1499 01:23:11,083 --> 01:23:14,125 as they say in the manhunt business, 1500 01:23:14,208 --> 01:23:15,792 ended up on the X. 1501 01:23:15,875 --> 01:23:19,333 Very broadly, there are three phases. 1502 01:23:19,417 --> 01:23:23,083 The first is just gathering intelligence about this person, 1503 01:23:23,166 --> 01:23:26,166 based on that, there is then a phase 1504 01:23:26,250 --> 01:23:28,500 in which you hope to build up a pattern of life. 1505 01:23:28,583 --> 01:23:31,834 You need a certain regularity to understand their behavior, 1506 01:23:31,917 --> 01:23:34,458 where they are going to be on a particular day. 1507 01:23:34,542 --> 01:23:36,083 You also need to make decisions 1508 01:23:36,166 --> 01:23:38,166 about the deployment of aerial assets 1509 01:23:38,250 --> 01:23:42,041 'cause so much of this is about reconnaissance from above. 1510 01:23:45,917 --> 01:23:47,500 Warren: We start to realize, 1511 01:23:47,583 --> 01:23:49,625 we think we know exactly where he is. 1512 01:23:49,709 --> 01:23:52,792 So have a drone take a look at that spot. 1513 01:23:54,500 --> 01:23:57,041 ( drones humming ) 1514 01:23:58,750 --> 01:24:00,500 We'd been very clear that... 1515 01:24:00,583 --> 01:24:03,000 we'd intended to minimize civilian casualties 1516 01:24:03,083 --> 01:24:05,125 as we prosecuted this fight against ISIS. 1517 01:24:05,208 --> 01:24:07,750 Jihadi John was able to read between the lines 1518 01:24:07,834 --> 01:24:10,041 and he understood that if he surrounded himself 1519 01:24:10,125 --> 01:24:12,417 with civilians, with non-combatants, 1520 01:24:12,500 --> 01:24:15,041 that we would be very reticent to try to strike at him. 1521 01:24:15,125 --> 01:24:18,041 Wise: And this boy knew if he had any hope for survival 1522 01:24:18,125 --> 01:24:22,208 he had to blend in to the citizens of Raqqa. 1523 01:24:22,291 --> 01:24:27,500 He had to look from a distance just like them. 1524 01:24:27,583 --> 01:24:31,083 It's no longer looking for a needle in a haystack, 1525 01:24:31,166 --> 01:24:34,709 this is like looking for a needle in a stack of needles. 1526 01:24:34,792 --> 01:24:38,333 Hannigan: You have to remember that these terrorists 1527 01:24:38,417 --> 01:24:41,583 are leading lives alongside their terrorist operations. 1528 01:24:41,667 --> 01:24:43,792 Where we could see what they were doing, 1529 01:24:43,875 --> 01:24:46,709 they were doing very much what young men 1530 01:24:46,792 --> 01:24:48,709 of their generation would do so, 1531 01:24:48,792 --> 01:24:52,667 so be looking at football and porn and films, 1532 01:24:52,750 --> 01:24:55,542 but in amongst that was attack planning 1533 01:24:55,625 --> 01:24:59,542 and violent extremist material and, of course, 1534 01:24:59,625 --> 01:25:01,166 fueling their own impact, 1535 01:25:01,250 --> 01:25:03,667 seeing their own kind of celebrity being created, 1536 01:25:03,750 --> 01:25:06,208 that must have been intoxicating. 1537 01:25:06,291 --> 01:25:10,208 Warren: So the net slowly, slowly, slowly begins to tighten. 1538 01:25:10,291 --> 01:25:11,792 Finally, yesterday he was here 1539 01:25:11,875 --> 01:25:14,625 and now we have good reason to believe that tomorrow 1540 01:25:14,709 --> 01:25:17,041 he's gonna be there, and that's the tipping point. 1541 01:25:17,125 --> 01:25:21,083 Once we start talking about where do we think he's gonna be 1542 01:25:21,166 --> 01:25:23,917 that in my mind is when I know, okay, 1543 01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:25,250 we're locked in on him now. 1544 01:25:25,333 --> 01:25:26,875 I think where you have any target, 1545 01:25:26,959 --> 01:25:30,500 who is very good at communication security 1546 01:25:30,583 --> 01:25:33,041 they are almost always made vulnerable by others 1547 01:25:33,125 --> 01:25:36,083 that they communicate with, so those around them. 1548 01:25:38,667 --> 01:25:39,875 Verkaik: Throughout his life, 1549 01:25:39,959 --> 01:25:43,166 Mohammed Emwazi had wanted a family, 1550 01:25:43,250 --> 01:25:46,458 he pursued two engagements, one woman in London, 1551 01:25:46,542 --> 01:25:49,208 one in Kuwait, it was the one desire, 1552 01:25:49,291 --> 01:25:51,709 which he continued to pursue in Syria. 1553 01:25:51,792 --> 01:25:54,875 It turned out to be his greatest weakness. 1554 01:25:54,959 --> 01:25:56,458 You know his family was a little bit 1555 01:25:56,542 --> 01:25:57,959 of a vulnerability right? 1556 01:25:58,041 --> 01:26:00,208 He had his, I think, ISIS issued wife that he got 1557 01:26:00,291 --> 01:26:01,709 when he was in Syria. 1558 01:26:01,792 --> 01:26:03,792 And he knew that he was a target, 1559 01:26:03,875 --> 01:26:05,250 and he'd taken appropriate action, 1560 01:26:05,333 --> 01:26:06,750 but the one thing he couldn't do, 1561 01:26:06,834 --> 01:26:08,125 the one thing he wasn't prepared to do, 1562 01:26:08,208 --> 01:26:10,542 was to not spend time with his family. 1563 01:26:10,625 --> 01:26:13,291 Once he had established a family in Raqqa, 1564 01:26:13,375 --> 01:26:14,500 they knew where to find him. 1565 01:26:14,583 --> 01:26:16,667 They didn't need to track him 24/7. 1566 01:26:16,750 --> 01:26:18,250 They just had to watch the family, 1567 01:26:18,333 --> 01:26:20,709 and similarly, wait for him to turn up. 1568 01:26:20,792 --> 01:26:23,875 Warren: He was very careful about his actions, 1569 01:26:23,959 --> 01:26:26,542 but you know what, they all slip up eventually. 1570 01:26:26,625 --> 01:26:30,458 Every one of these guys, to a one, 1571 01:26:30,542 --> 01:26:32,500 including the most famous one Osama Bin Laden, 1572 01:26:32,583 --> 01:26:36,333 they all make a mistake and when they do, 1573 01:26:36,417 --> 01:26:37,834 we kill them. 1574 01:26:37,917 --> 01:26:40,750 ( clock ticking ) 1575 01:26:44,500 --> 01:26:47,917 ( plane engines roaring ) 1576 01:26:49,166 --> 01:26:51,709 So eventually, we acquire our target. 1577 01:26:51,792 --> 01:26:54,208 We're fairly certain that it's Jihadi John, 1578 01:26:54,291 --> 01:26:56,709 and we see him, along with some colleagues. 1579 01:26:56,792 --> 01:26:57,917 enter into a vehicle. 1580 01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:59,834 So the location is Raqqa. 1581 01:26:59,917 --> 01:27:02,667 We believed at the time that he was heading to the city center, 1582 01:27:02,750 --> 01:27:04,375 and this goes on for some time. 1583 01:27:04,458 --> 01:27:06,041 He's driving around for, I don't know, 1584 01:27:06,125 --> 01:27:08,625 it might have been 45, it was a while. 1585 01:27:16,750 --> 01:27:18,208 Inside of that ops center, 1586 01:27:18,291 --> 01:27:21,041 the hunt for Jihadi John was fairly routine. 1587 01:27:21,125 --> 01:27:23,125 For me personally, I was more invested. 1588 01:27:23,208 --> 01:27:24,792 You know, he was my foe. 1589 01:27:24,875 --> 01:27:29,041 I had been trading blows with him for months at this point. 1590 01:27:29,125 --> 01:27:32,125 So you know, as we're following him around 1591 01:27:32,208 --> 01:27:35,333 and what we're really looking for is an opportunity to strike him. 1592 01:27:35,417 --> 01:27:37,500 You might be able to see an area, 1593 01:27:37,583 --> 01:27:39,750 but perhaps the missile can't negotiate 1594 01:27:39,834 --> 01:27:43,083 around the various buildings or population density. 1595 01:27:43,166 --> 01:27:46,875 So, we're trying to find the opportune time 1596 01:27:46,959 --> 01:27:48,208 to take the shot. 1597 01:27:48,291 --> 01:27:50,750 Because remember, if you shoot and miss 1598 01:27:50,834 --> 01:27:52,291 well guess what, now he knows. 1599 01:27:52,375 --> 01:27:53,917 Now he knows that we're shooting at him. 1600 01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:57,750 And sure enough, eventually he moves his vehicle 1601 01:27:57,834 --> 01:27:59,583 into a relatively open area. 1602 01:27:59,667 --> 01:28:04,333 In fact, ISIS had used previously for executions, 1603 01:28:04,417 --> 01:28:06,125 sort of a little poetic justice I guess. 1604 01:28:06,208 --> 01:28:10,583 His vehicle stops and we see a figure exit the vehicle. 1605 01:28:10,667 --> 01:28:13,583 We don't know what he's doing, but we did know that 1606 01:28:13,667 --> 01:28:16,583 this is not a bad little location here. 1607 01:28:16,667 --> 01:28:18,375 He steps out of the vehicle, 1608 01:28:18,458 --> 01:28:19,959 and now we have an opportunity 1609 01:28:20,041 --> 01:28:23,458 to really try to triple check that this is Jihadi John. 1610 01:28:23,542 --> 01:28:25,542 Because of the conditions, it was night, 1611 01:28:25,625 --> 01:28:28,125 we're using infrared, you can't see his face. 1612 01:28:28,208 --> 01:28:30,166 But we could sort of see how he moved, 1613 01:28:30,250 --> 01:28:31,834 the cut of his jib, so to speak. 1614 01:28:31,917 --> 01:28:33,625 You know, the angle of his beard. 1615 01:28:33,709 --> 01:28:35,542 You know, these things we could see. 1616 01:28:35,625 --> 01:28:37,542 Eventually we were convinced 1617 01:28:37,625 --> 01:28:38,959 that this is Jihadi John. 1618 01:28:39,041 --> 01:28:40,125 And so, 1619 01:28:40,208 --> 01:28:43,625 the floor commander at the time orders, 1620 01:28:43,709 --> 01:28:45,500 take the shot. 1621 01:28:45,583 --> 01:28:47,083 Man: He's left the vehicle. 1622 01:28:47,166 --> 01:28:49,417 Man 2: Roger. Let's see what he does. 1623 01:28:49,500 --> 01:28:51,041 Man: Wait... ( distorted radio chatter ) 1624 01:28:51,125 --> 01:28:54,083 - Man: Ready to engage. - Man 2: Standby. 1625 01:28:54,166 --> 01:28:56,125 - Man: Engage. - Man 2: Roger. 1626 01:28:56,208 --> 01:28:57,709 Man: Fire, hit it. 1627 01:29:01,083 --> 01:29:02,834 Warren: And then that missile's in flight 1628 01:29:02,917 --> 01:29:05,417 and the missile can fly anywhere from I don't know 1629 01:29:05,500 --> 01:29:07,500 five to 15 seconds and that really 1630 01:29:07,583 --> 01:29:09,375 is kind the most tense moment 1631 01:29:09,458 --> 01:29:11,667 because now that missile's gone you can't take it back. 1632 01:29:11,750 --> 01:29:16,291 And so you have these moments, it's all done 1633 01:29:16,375 --> 01:29:18,417 and you don't know what's gonna happen next. 1634 01:29:25,375 --> 01:29:28,041 ( bomb exploding ) 1635 01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:49,667 Wise: You might ask you know, was there high fiving 1636 01:29:49,750 --> 01:29:52,166 and celebration after this 1637 01:29:52,250 --> 01:29:56,417 and counterintuitively the answer is no. 1638 01:29:56,500 --> 01:29:58,375 This is the serious business 1639 01:29:58,458 --> 01:30:01,834 of eradicating an existential threat 1640 01:30:01,917 --> 01:30:03,750 by taking a human life. 1641 01:30:03,834 --> 01:30:05,750 I don't rejoice in anyone's death, 1642 01:30:05,834 --> 01:30:08,709 but it was certainly a good thing 1643 01:30:08,792 --> 01:30:13,333 that he was no longer able to do the really brutal 1644 01:30:13,417 --> 01:30:15,500 and disgusting things that we'd seen on video. 1645 01:30:15,583 --> 01:30:21,834 And yes, you could argue that Emwazi's departure 1646 01:30:21,917 --> 01:30:23,917 lethally and instantaneously 1647 01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,834 was perhaps unsatisfying. 1648 01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:30,166 It wasn't a 10-minute execution. 1649 01:30:31,667 --> 01:30:35,333 He didn't have to feel the cut of the steel. 1650 01:30:35,417 --> 01:30:37,458 I had a mixed feeling. 1651 01:30:37,542 --> 01:30:41,792 Of course I would have preferred to see him in court... 1652 01:30:43,333 --> 01:30:46,291 facing his charges... 1653 01:30:47,250 --> 01:30:49,750 and being blamed for 1654 01:30:49,834 --> 01:30:54,000 and answering for the crimes he committed. 1655 01:30:55,458 --> 01:30:59,375 It was mixed feeling, but the main feeling though 1656 01:30:59,458 --> 01:31:02,041 was the satisfaction, 1657 01:31:02,125 --> 01:31:04,583 the relief at least, 1658 01:31:04,667 --> 01:31:09,917 this person will not harm anyone anymore. 1659 01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:14,125 But... yeah in that instant, I was well aware 1660 01:31:14,208 --> 01:31:17,500 that there were plenty of other people who would step into his shoes, 1661 01:31:17,583 --> 01:31:19,500 it would have been, um... 1662 01:31:20,875 --> 01:31:23,959 strange to see this as a massive breakthrough. 1663 01:31:24,041 --> 01:31:25,083 It was... 1664 01:31:26,875 --> 01:31:30,583 a part of one particular story, 1665 01:31:30,667 --> 01:31:34,041 but the ISIL threat went on. 1666 01:31:35,542 --> 01:31:37,875 We're going to have to live with a level 1667 01:31:37,959 --> 01:31:41,125 of extreme Islamist violence 1668 01:31:41,208 --> 01:31:43,750 for some time to come, and it will continue 1669 01:31:43,834 --> 01:31:46,667 to inspire people in Western countries. 1670 01:31:46,750 --> 01:31:50,166 Wise: What you have are horrendous terrorist acts 1671 01:31:50,250 --> 01:31:51,500 all attributed to ISIS. 1672 01:31:51,583 --> 01:31:54,709 Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi had not a clue 1673 01:31:54,792 --> 01:31:56,709 that any of those things were going to happen, 1674 01:31:56,792 --> 01:32:00,458 but he didn't have to, what they got was inspiration 1675 01:32:00,542 --> 01:32:02,375 and that's all they needed. 1676 01:32:02,458 --> 01:32:04,041 News reporter: U.S.-led airstrikes are hitting the heart 1677 01:32:04,125 --> 01:32:06,125 of ISIS-controlled territory in Syria. 1678 01:32:06,208 --> 01:32:08,166 A coalition of nations has come together, 1679 01:32:08,250 --> 01:32:10,500 and Britain has to do its share. 1680 01:32:10,583 --> 01:32:13,083 News reporter: Day four of withering air strikes on ISIS targets. 1681 01:32:13,166 --> 01:32:15,166 News reporter 2: Proclamations of victory over the group 1682 01:32:15,250 --> 01:32:16,917 in both Iraq and Syria. 1683 01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:18,667 News Reporter 3: A secret deal reportedly allowed 1684 01:32:18,750 --> 01:32:20,000 some of the most notorious ISIS fighters 1685 01:32:20,083 --> 01:32:21,500 to escape from a besieged Syrian city. 1686 01:32:21,583 --> 01:32:23,875 They made an agreement so that they didn't 1687 01:32:23,959 --> 01:32:26,875 literally have to destroy Raqqa to save it. 1688 01:32:26,959 --> 01:32:31,125 I'm sure that was the least bad of the options. 1689 01:32:31,208 --> 01:32:34,583 Now what you're seeing already is the remnants 1690 01:32:34,667 --> 01:32:38,208 of these forces turning into insurgent groups. 1691 01:32:38,291 --> 01:32:39,959 These are elusive enemies now, 1692 01:32:40,041 --> 01:32:43,417 they are no longer wearing uniforms or flying black flags, 1693 01:32:43,500 --> 01:32:46,375 they are hiding among the population. 1694 01:32:46,458 --> 01:32:48,875 So this is going to be a very different threat. 1695 01:32:48,959 --> 01:32:51,041 I'm very confident that ultimately 1696 01:32:51,125 --> 01:32:55,291 Baghdadi will find himself on the X as well. 1697 01:32:55,375 --> 01:32:57,917 News reporter: Once some of the world's most wanted, 1698 01:32:58,000 --> 01:32:59,875 but now nobody wants them. 1699 01:32:59,959 --> 01:33:02,834 The last two of the British ISIS cell dubbed The Beatles 1700 01:33:02,917 --> 01:33:04,208 jailed in Syria. 1701 01:33:04,291 --> 01:33:05,417 How they'll face justice 1702 01:33:05,500 --> 01:33:07,542 is now a matter of hot debate. 1703 01:33:07,625 --> 01:33:09,750 Accused of waterboarding, crucifixion, 1704 01:33:09,834 --> 01:33:12,291 accessory to beheadings of Western hostages. 1705 01:33:12,375 --> 01:33:16,000 The Beatles, they are obsessed with their own self-image. 1706 01:33:16,083 --> 01:33:19,417 They have gone from capturing western journalists 1707 01:33:19,500 --> 01:33:22,125 to now trying to capture western journalists' attention, 1708 01:33:22,208 --> 01:33:24,959 turning their stories around as if they were victims, 1709 01:33:25,041 --> 01:33:27,917 and it's caused quite an interesting reaction 1710 01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:30,208 to what do we do with people like that. 1711 01:33:30,291 --> 01:33:33,917 Henin: I would expect to attend that trial 1712 01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:36,500 and what is of prime importance to me 1713 01:33:36,583 --> 01:33:39,166 is that this trial is fair. 1714 01:33:39,250 --> 01:33:42,709 We should not give them any chance 1715 01:33:42,792 --> 01:33:45,542 to portray themselves as victims. 1716 01:33:45,625 --> 01:33:47,417 We are the victim. 1717 01:33:47,500 --> 01:33:50,917 They are the perpetrators, they are the terrorists. 1718 01:33:51,041 --> 01:33:54,041 So much effort was spent on the fanaticism 1719 01:33:54,125 --> 01:33:57,709 that had led Jihadi John to go kill innocent people. 1720 01:33:57,792 --> 01:34:02,083 If you look at the amazing lives of his victims, 1721 01:34:02,166 --> 01:34:06,458 these lives are great examples of the power of networks 1722 01:34:06,542 --> 01:34:08,875 and people joining causes higher than themselves 1723 01:34:08,959 --> 01:34:11,125 and that use of networking and the higher cause, 1724 01:34:11,208 --> 01:34:15,417 I think, often is drowned out by the grisly 1725 01:34:15,500 --> 01:34:17,125 and the dark and the sensational. 1726 01:34:17,208 --> 01:34:20,000 I never, ever told my dad how proud I was of him 1727 01:34:20,083 --> 01:34:22,417 and it's only now when he's not here 1728 01:34:22,500 --> 01:34:25,458 that I realize how proud I actually was. 1729 01:34:25,542 --> 01:34:28,709 When David was always talking to his daughters. 1730 01:34:31,125 --> 01:34:32,875 He'd have his time... 1731 01:34:35,083 --> 01:34:37,834 when he just wanted to speak to his daughters. 1732 01:34:37,917 --> 01:34:39,750 Federico and I, 1733 01:34:39,834 --> 01:34:43,417 we were kind of forced together through this. 1734 01:34:43,500 --> 01:34:47,917 Yeah, yeah, yeah, we speak... um... often. 1735 01:34:49,709 --> 01:34:52,208 She's remarkably like her father... 1736 01:34:53,792 --> 01:34:56,959 in temperament and many ways. 1737 01:34:57,041 --> 01:34:59,458 I definitely see a lot of David in her. 1738 01:34:59,542 --> 01:35:02,333 When people tell me I'm a lot like my dad, 1739 01:35:02,417 --> 01:35:05,125 I used to always think, I don't believe it, I don't believe it. 1740 01:35:05,208 --> 01:35:08,125 So when he says, "Oh, you're so much like your dad," 1741 01:35:08,208 --> 01:35:09,834 it really does ring true, and you think, 1742 01:35:09,917 --> 01:35:12,375 Well, I must be doing something right. 1743 01:35:15,792 --> 01:35:17,417 Walton: There was a sense in which Emwazi 1744 01:35:17,500 --> 01:35:19,709 had fulfilled his ambitions, 1745 01:35:19,792 --> 01:35:23,041 but there was also some self-analysis by us 1746 01:35:23,125 --> 01:35:25,291 as to whether we'd actually had the right strategy 1747 01:35:25,375 --> 01:35:26,709 for this individual. 1748 01:35:26,792 --> 01:35:29,125 On the one hand, we had absolutely 1749 01:35:29,208 --> 01:35:31,041 understood the threat he posed, 1750 01:35:31,125 --> 01:35:34,834 but ultimately, we failed because he became what he wanted to be, 1751 01:35:34,917 --> 01:35:38,875 potentially one of the worst terrorists of all time. 1752 01:35:38,959 --> 01:35:42,542 To think that the level of-- of hatred 1753 01:35:42,625 --> 01:35:43,709 that must have been generated 1754 01:35:43,792 --> 01:35:46,125 over that short number of years 1755 01:35:46,208 --> 01:35:48,125 was such that it would have inspired him 1756 01:35:48,208 --> 01:35:50,208 to behave in a way that he did, 1757 01:35:50,291 --> 01:35:51,959 I find that incredible, 1758 01:35:52,041 --> 01:35:55,250 that's not the same person that-- that I knew. 1759 01:35:55,333 --> 01:35:57,667 He was a guy who had it all. 1760 01:35:57,750 --> 01:36:00,500 British passport, safety and security, 1761 01:36:00,583 --> 01:36:02,667 all the benefits of British society. 1762 01:36:02,750 --> 01:36:08,250 He had a future, and he gave it up for the Islamic State. 1763 01:36:08,333 --> 01:36:10,250 Ultimately it's a battle of ideas, 1764 01:36:10,333 --> 01:36:13,375 and I am confident that good ideas with the right support 1765 01:36:13,458 --> 01:36:16,583 will demonstrate that bad ideas are nihilistic, 1766 01:36:16,667 --> 01:36:18,625 they destroy themselves and others. 1767 01:36:18,709 --> 01:36:20,208 Somebody put it very strikingly. 1768 01:36:20,291 --> 01:36:24,375 They said the terrorist is like the fly in the china shop. 1769 01:36:24,458 --> 01:36:26,834 Now he can't destroy the china shop on his own. 1770 01:36:26,917 --> 01:36:28,792 The fly isn't nearly strong enough, 1771 01:36:28,875 --> 01:36:31,500 but if he gets inside the ear of a bull 1772 01:36:31,583 --> 01:36:35,500 then the bull if it panics will destroy the china shop. 1773 01:36:35,583 --> 01:36:37,458 We're the bull, they are the fly, 1774 01:36:37,542 --> 01:36:39,458 that's why it's important not to panic. 1775 01:36:39,542 --> 01:36:44,417 We need to have the courage to have a higher standard. 1776 01:36:44,500 --> 01:36:48,458 We must not debase ourselves to the level of hatred 1777 01:36:48,542 --> 01:36:49,792 that they have. 1778 01:36:49,875 --> 01:36:51,875 And as part of Jim's legacy, 1779 01:36:51,959 --> 01:36:56,625 we want to inspire young people to care 1780 01:36:56,709 --> 01:36:58,959 and do good things in the world. 1781 01:36:59,041 --> 01:37:01,417 We need that goodness. 137450

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