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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:05,339 --> 00:00:06,639 Auschwitz, 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:08,040 the Nazi death camp, 3 00:00:08,041 --> 00:00:09,375 where more than a million people 4 00:00:09,376 --> 00:00:12,212 mainly Jews were murdered. 5 00:00:14,047 --> 00:00:17,283 People with families and friends, 6 00:00:17,284 --> 00:00:21,220 ordinary people robbed of their future. 7 00:00:21,221 --> 00:00:22,722 Each had their own unique story 8 00:00:22,723 --> 00:00:26,626 of how they came to be at Auschwitz. 9 00:00:26,627 --> 00:00:29,362 Only a minority survived 10 00:00:29,363 --> 00:00:29,999 and today, decades later, 11 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,764 and today, decades later, 12 00:00:31,765 --> 00:00:35,167 very few can explain what happened there 13 00:00:35,168 --> 00:00:38,571 as witness to its human terror. 14 00:00:38,572 --> 00:00:40,706 Kitty hart-moxon was 17 years old 15 00:00:40,707 --> 00:00:43,376 when she arrived at Auschwitz-birkenau 16 00:00:43,377 --> 00:00:46,512 in April 1943. 17 00:00:46,513 --> 00:00:50,383 Now, she travels back one last time 18 00:00:50,384 --> 00:00:54,288 to answer the questions of a new generation. 19 00:01:03,297 --> 00:01:05,698 My name is kitty hart-moxon 20 00:01:05,699 --> 00:01:09,136 and I'm a holocaust survivor. 21 00:01:10,704 --> 00:01:13,472 Designed as a factory of death, 22 00:01:13,473 --> 00:01:16,075 no one was intended to survive. 23 00:01:16,076 --> 00:01:18,077 Let alone describe its inhumanity 24 00:01:18,078 --> 00:01:21,148 to a world not yet ready to listen. 25 00:01:22,215 --> 00:01:23,649 No one wanted to know, 26 00:01:23,650 --> 00:01:26,619 no one wanted to hear what I have to say 27 00:01:26,620 --> 00:01:29,155 but I made a commitment that the people 28 00:01:29,156 --> 00:01:29,999 don't want to hear but I'm going to make sure 29 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:30,690 don't want to hear but I'm going to make sure 30 00:01:30,691 --> 00:01:32,092 that they will. 31 00:01:35,596 --> 00:01:37,330 I've been here many times 32 00:01:37,331 --> 00:01:40,466 but I really wanted to come with two girls 33 00:01:40,467 --> 00:01:43,135 who are my age when I was here. 34 00:01:43,136 --> 00:01:45,672 I want to show them the struggle for survival. 35 00:01:47,174 --> 00:01:49,275 What were your first impressions of the camp? 36 00:01:49,276 --> 00:01:51,544 There was just the most incredible mud 37 00:01:51,545 --> 00:01:54,680 and then we saw, like, a glow in a distance 38 00:01:54,681 --> 00:01:56,649 and soon when we got there, 39 00:01:56,650 --> 00:01:59,999 we saw ghost-like figures with shaved heads, 40 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,287 we saw ghost-like figures with shaved heads, 41 00:02:01,288 --> 00:02:05,324 staggering in tattered clothes 42 00:02:05,325 --> 00:02:07,460 with great big eyes, 43 00:02:07,461 --> 00:02:09,061 screaming in all languages 44 00:02:09,062 --> 00:02:11,063 and being beaten and we thought, 45 00:02:11,064 --> 00:02:14,634 "my God, is this what's going to happen to us?" 46 00:02:14,635 --> 00:02:16,636 I've known kitty since I was born. 47 00:02:16,637 --> 00:02:18,504 I've known about her story since I was little 48 00:02:18,505 --> 00:02:21,040 so I've grown up with the influence of it. 49 00:02:21,041 --> 00:02:22,975 What did you first see when you got off the train? 50 00:02:22,976 --> 00:02:24,310 Alsatian dogs. 51 00:02:24,311 --> 00:02:27,079 They were barking, trying to get at us. 52 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:28,648 And I wanted to try 53 00:02:28,649 --> 00:02:29,999 and understand a bit better, 54 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:30,150 and understand a bit better, 55 00:02:30,151 --> 00:02:32,118 how she held in these conditions 56 00:02:32,119 --> 00:02:34,720 and how she managed to survive for so long. 57 00:02:34,721 --> 00:02:37,456 And we're walking into women's camp now. 58 00:02:37,457 --> 00:02:39,392 I met kitty for the first time 59 00:02:39,393 --> 00:02:41,727 after the school tour she gave us. 60 00:02:41,728 --> 00:02:43,596 And I went up and asked some questions to her. 61 00:02:43,597 --> 00:02:45,531 And I'm just kind of nervous and excited 62 00:02:45,532 --> 00:02:48,367 because I want to see it from a different perceptive. 63 00:02:48,368 --> 00:02:50,302 I may have seen it in class. 64 00:02:50,303 --> 00:02:51,637 And you see these stamps? 65 00:02:51,638 --> 00:02:52,605 These are the chimneys 66 00:02:52,606 --> 00:02:54,440 of the wooden barracks. 67 00:02:54,441 --> 00:02:56,175 What happens to you 68 00:02:56,176 --> 00:02:58,577 when you're in those formative years, 69 00:02:58,578 --> 00:02:59,999 age 13 to 16, 70 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:00,447 age 13 to 16, 71 00:03:00,448 --> 00:03:02,348 it shapes you and your character 72 00:03:02,349 --> 00:03:04,183 for the whole of your life. 73 00:03:04,184 --> 00:03:07,987 Auschwitz is where my grandma feels she belongs 74 00:03:07,988 --> 00:03:12,124 and it always calls her back. 75 00:03:12,125 --> 00:03:14,460 Kitty hart was one of the first survivors 76 00:03:14,461 --> 00:03:16,095 to tell her story. 77 00:03:16,096 --> 00:03:19,365 She gives us access to that experience 78 00:03:19,366 --> 00:03:22,468 with the power of her words. 79 00:03:22,469 --> 00:03:26,205 You have to treat what kitty says almost like music, 80 00:03:26,206 --> 00:03:29,308 I hear what she says. 81 00:03:29,309 --> 00:03:29,999 And I also try to listen 82 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:30,976 and I also try to listen 83 00:03:30,977 --> 00:03:33,979 to what she has left unsaid. 84 00:03:33,980 --> 00:03:35,748 And see this crossroad? 85 00:03:35,749 --> 00:03:37,349 The crossroad was the crossroad 86 00:03:37,350 --> 00:03:39,051 to life or death. 87 00:03:39,052 --> 00:03:41,387 The very fact that kitty was an eyewitness 88 00:03:41,388 --> 00:03:44,256 and can say, "this is what I saw," 89 00:03:44,257 --> 00:03:47,393 actually ensures that it cannot be denied 90 00:03:47,394 --> 00:03:50,529 that the intentionality of the perpetrations is clear 91 00:03:50,530 --> 00:03:53,699 and it is indisputable that what she saw 92 00:03:53,700 --> 00:03:56,502 is what happened. 93 00:03:56,503 --> 00:03:57,636 And as you walked, 94 00:03:57,637 --> 00:03:59,371 you got stuck in this mud, 95 00:03:59,372 --> 00:03:59,999 and all these people were falling around in the mud. 96 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,042 And all these people were falling around in the mud. 97 00:04:03,043 --> 00:04:04,643 You cannot stand there 98 00:04:04,644 --> 00:04:07,513 and simply say, "this is okay." 99 00:04:07,514 --> 00:04:10,082 This should never have happened. 100 00:04:10,083 --> 00:04:11,984 It should never have existed, 101 00:04:11,985 --> 00:04:13,486 and as a human being, 102 00:04:13,487 --> 00:04:15,287 thinking about the experience of others, 103 00:04:15,288 --> 00:04:17,256 you just realize, 104 00:04:17,257 --> 00:04:20,627 "this is no place for anybody to have ever been." 105 00:04:27,334 --> 00:04:29,034 Just prior to invasion, 106 00:04:29,035 --> 00:04:29,999 my father decided we've got to get out. 107 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,538 My father decided we've got to get out. 108 00:04:32,539 --> 00:04:34,740 My brother fled with his friends 109 00:04:34,741 --> 00:04:36,275 to the Russian side. 110 00:04:36,276 --> 00:04:39,145 They were asked to join the army, 111 00:04:39,146 --> 00:04:42,148 the Polish army within a Russian unit. 112 00:04:42,149 --> 00:04:45,351 And eventually was killed 113 00:04:45,352 --> 00:04:48,354 in the battle of stalingrad. 114 00:04:48,355 --> 00:04:51,157 So my father, my mother, and my grandmother, 115 00:04:51,158 --> 00:04:53,192 we got on the last train. 116 00:04:53,193 --> 00:04:54,527 The train just took us to lublin 117 00:04:54,528 --> 00:04:57,129 and that's where everyone was thrown out 118 00:04:57,130 --> 00:04:58,664 and that's where we landed up. 119 00:04:58,665 --> 00:04:59,999 And we were taken to a part of the town 120 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,101 and we were taken to a part of the town 121 00:05:02,102 --> 00:05:04,303 which became the lublin ghetto. 122 00:05:04,304 --> 00:05:07,239 It wasn't possible to survive in Poland 123 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:08,407 as a Jewish person 124 00:05:08,408 --> 00:05:10,709 without relying on somebody else. 125 00:05:10,710 --> 00:05:12,545 So kitty's mother, in a time of crisis, 126 00:05:12,546 --> 00:05:13,979 what does she do? 127 00:05:13,980 --> 00:05:15,548 She started teaching English to people. 128 00:05:15,549 --> 00:05:17,383 In doing that, she creates a relationship 129 00:05:17,384 --> 00:05:18,384 with a priest. 130 00:05:18,385 --> 00:05:20,052 Priest told my mother, 131 00:05:20,053 --> 00:05:24,056 "if you come to a point where there's no way out, 132 00:05:24,057 --> 00:05:27,326 just come and I'll see what I can do." 133 00:05:27,327 --> 00:05:29,595 The priest then is able to help 134 00:05:29,596 --> 00:05:30,000 and put his life on the line 135 00:05:30,001 --> 00:05:31,163 and put his life on the line 136 00:05:31,164 --> 00:05:34,200 to provide them documents to get them out. 137 00:05:34,201 --> 00:05:35,634 We had to part from my father. 138 00:05:35,635 --> 00:05:38,270 That priest said no way could we survive 139 00:05:38,271 --> 00:05:40,573 all three of us together. 140 00:05:40,574 --> 00:05:42,741 My father was to go and work 141 00:05:42,742 --> 00:05:44,143 in the sawmill somewhere, 142 00:05:44,144 --> 00:05:45,578 we didn't know where. 143 00:05:45,579 --> 00:05:47,146 And my mother and I, 144 00:05:47,147 --> 00:05:51,116 we were to go into the center of lublin. 145 00:05:51,117 --> 00:05:53,485 Why? Because they were rounding up 146 00:05:53,486 --> 00:05:57,156 the Polish population as well. 147 00:05:57,157 --> 00:05:59,258 And when they sorted them out, they took them to work 148 00:05:59,259 --> 00:05:59,999 in factories in Germany 149 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,126 in factories in Germany 150 00:06:01,127 --> 00:06:02,294 and the priest said, 151 00:06:02,295 --> 00:06:03,529 "that's what we've got to do. 152 00:06:03,530 --> 00:06:06,031 We're going to get out of the country." 153 00:06:06,032 --> 00:06:08,067 And makes me this transport 154 00:06:08,068 --> 00:06:10,336 and get into Germany. 155 00:06:10,337 --> 00:06:12,304 And they actually checked documents 156 00:06:12,305 --> 00:06:14,473 but our documents were in order, you see. 157 00:06:14,474 --> 00:06:17,476 And before my mother and I collected our thoughts, 158 00:06:17,477 --> 00:06:18,545 we were in the train. 159 00:06:20,513 --> 00:06:25,517 And landed up far, far inside Germany. 160 00:06:25,518 --> 00:06:28,420 It was very difficult for Jews to be able to hide 161 00:06:28,421 --> 00:06:29,999 within the Polish population 162 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:30,556 within the Polish population 163 00:06:30,557 --> 00:06:33,025 because of small cultural and linguistic things, 164 00:06:33,026 --> 00:06:35,261 such as accents would--could creep in 165 00:06:35,262 --> 00:06:37,296 and change the perception of you 166 00:06:37,297 --> 00:06:40,432 as being truly a Polish citizen. 167 00:06:40,433 --> 00:06:41,967 Well, what happened was 168 00:06:41,968 --> 00:06:44,236 because they suspected us, 169 00:06:44,237 --> 00:06:47,339 one of them reported us to the authorities 170 00:06:47,340 --> 00:06:50,442 and that was our downfall. 171 00:06:50,443 --> 00:06:53,479 Kitty was arrested for illegal entry into Germany 172 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,314 as leokadia dobrzynska 173 00:06:55,315 --> 00:06:58,284 and sent for interrogation. 174 00:06:58,285 --> 00:06:59,999 The Nazis wanted to know the source 175 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:00,153 the Nazis wanted to know the source 176 00:07:00,154 --> 00:07:02,288 of their false documents. 177 00:07:02,289 --> 00:07:03,389 The irony with the Nazis 178 00:07:03,390 --> 00:07:04,690 was they could create death camps 179 00:07:04,691 --> 00:07:06,425 and murder Jews with impunity 180 00:07:06,426 --> 00:07:08,093 but if somebody broke a law, 181 00:07:08,094 --> 00:07:10,062 they had to go through the penal system 182 00:07:10,063 --> 00:07:11,430 which was complete nonsense 183 00:07:11,431 --> 00:07:13,132 because they could have simply deported them 184 00:07:13,133 --> 00:07:14,466 to Auschwitz as Jews. 185 00:07:14,467 --> 00:07:17,002 But because the legal system didn't allow it, 186 00:07:17,003 --> 00:07:19,338 they eventually were deported to Auschwitz 187 00:07:19,339 --> 00:07:23,409 with a death penalty for immigration charges. 188 00:07:23,410 --> 00:07:25,644 So we were told we're going to be executed 189 00:07:25,645 --> 00:07:28,380 by firing squad. 190 00:07:28,381 --> 00:07:29,999 There was a brick wall 191 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:30,014 there was a brick wall 192 00:07:30,015 --> 00:07:31,083 and we had to face the wall 193 00:07:31,084 --> 00:07:33,519 with our arms up like that, 194 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,422 standing, facing the wall. 195 00:07:36,423 --> 00:07:39,625 And then there was a huge explosion 196 00:07:39,626 --> 00:07:43,095 and I thought, "God, I'm--I've been hit." 197 00:07:43,096 --> 00:07:44,563 There was a great laughter. 198 00:07:44,564 --> 00:07:46,532 They said, "oh, no, we're not going to kill you. 199 00:07:46,533 --> 00:07:48,567 "What's going to happen, we're going to commute you 200 00:07:48,568 --> 00:07:49,735 "of death sentence 201 00:07:49,736 --> 00:07:52,171 "to life imprisonment in Auschwitz 202 00:07:52,172 --> 00:07:54,406 "and we're going to hand you over to the camp. 203 00:07:54,407 --> 00:07:55,574 "They'll find out 204 00:07:55,575 --> 00:07:58,744 where these documents came from." 205 00:07:58,745 --> 00:07:59,999 So we're in a train that was specially converted 206 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,514 so we're in a train that was specially converted 207 00:08:02,515 --> 00:08:05,718 to transport prisoners 208 00:08:05,719 --> 00:08:10,723 and we travelled 48 hours standing 209 00:08:10,724 --> 00:08:13,759 before we arrived in Auschwitz. 210 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,095 But we had absolutely no idea where we were, 211 00:08:16,096 --> 00:08:17,529 it was dark. 212 00:08:17,530 --> 00:08:19,732 What did you first see when you got off the train? 213 00:08:19,733 --> 00:08:23,335 Well, the thing opened up and-- 214 00:08:23,336 --> 00:08:26,472 Oh, you heard an awful lot of noise. 215 00:08:26,473 --> 00:08:27,573 Were you scared? 216 00:08:27,574 --> 00:08:29,308 Well, we were scared of the dogs. 217 00:08:29,309 --> 00:08:29,999 And then the great big women with whips. 218 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,577 And then the great big women with whips. 219 00:08:31,578 --> 00:08:33,112 And they were whipping everyone 220 00:08:33,113 --> 00:08:36,148 and urging everyone to run, run, run, 221 00:08:36,149 --> 00:08:37,516 everything at running pace. 222 00:08:37,517 --> 00:08:43,455 Suddenly, there was a weird kind of stench 223 00:08:43,456 --> 00:08:45,157 and the closer we got, 224 00:08:45,158 --> 00:08:47,526 the worse the stench became. 225 00:08:47,527 --> 00:08:51,764 My mother--my mother said, "what a curious place there. 226 00:08:51,765 --> 00:08:52,765 "Can you smell? 227 00:08:52,766 --> 00:08:54,433 Can you smell roasting meat?" 228 00:08:54,434 --> 00:08:56,301 I said, "yes, I can." 229 00:08:56,302 --> 00:08:58,604 She said "do you think they're roasting chickens here 230 00:08:58,605 --> 00:08:59,999 this time of the night?" 231 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:00,306 This time of the night?" 232 00:09:00,307 --> 00:09:02,475 I said, "I don't know." 233 00:09:04,144 --> 00:09:06,211 Kitty and her mother was sent to birkenau, 234 00:09:06,212 --> 00:09:08,080 the largest of the 44 camps 235 00:09:08,081 --> 00:09:09,581 in the Auschwitz system, 236 00:09:09,582 --> 00:09:13,118 where they were processed and sent to quarantine. 237 00:09:13,119 --> 00:09:14,620 When did you first stay in a wooden barrack? 238 00:09:14,621 --> 00:09:17,723 Well, this was a quarantine, okay? 239 00:09:17,724 --> 00:09:21,326 So the first night, we were pushed into here. 240 00:09:21,327 --> 00:09:22,394 Did you find somewhere to sleep? 241 00:09:22,395 --> 00:09:27,232 Well, we squeezed in somewhere here. 242 00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:29,999 I was incredibly cold that night. 243 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:30,502 I was incredibly cold that night 244 00:09:30,503 --> 00:09:33,605 because we were 48 hours without food 245 00:09:33,606 --> 00:09:37,176 and I slept all night next to a woman. 246 00:09:37,177 --> 00:09:39,378 And she started speaking to me in German, 247 00:09:39,379 --> 00:09:41,613 it turned out, she was a German gypsy. 248 00:09:41,614 --> 00:09:43,182 - Right. - During the early morning, 249 00:09:43,183 --> 00:09:45,084 while she was talking to me, 250 00:09:45,085 --> 00:09:46,752 she looked at my hand, she took my hand, 251 00:09:46,753 --> 00:09:48,353 she said, "give me your hand." 252 00:09:48,354 --> 00:09:51,123 And she said, "you know, you're going to come out." 253 00:09:51,124 --> 00:09:53,358 And the next thing that happened, 254 00:09:53,359 --> 00:09:55,194 whistles blew suddenly, 255 00:09:55,195 --> 00:09:56,595 we're still in dark. 256 00:09:56,596 --> 00:09:59,164 And everybody would say "rouse, rouse, out." 257 00:09:59,165 --> 00:09:59,999 And because this was quarantine, 258 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:00,300 and because this was quarantine, 259 00:10:00,301 --> 00:10:02,000 we didn't know. Yeah. 260 00:10:02,001 --> 00:10:04,303 And I shook this woman, you know. 261 00:10:04,304 --> 00:10:06,672 Yeah. And she didn't move. 262 00:10:06,673 --> 00:10:10,976 And I said to my mother, "she's cold, she's dead." 263 00:10:10,977 --> 00:10:14,613 And I said, "you know, you're cold, I'm cold. 264 00:10:14,614 --> 00:10:16,615 "We need to strip her 265 00:10:16,616 --> 00:10:18,717 and we need to have everything she's got." 266 00:10:18,718 --> 00:10:21,620 Surviving Auschwitz was virtually impossible 267 00:10:21,621 --> 00:10:23,355 and there was certainly no way you can say, 268 00:10:23,356 --> 00:10:25,457 "if you did this then this would happen." 269 00:10:25,458 --> 00:10:27,626 It was a matter of luck and chance 270 00:10:27,627 --> 00:10:29,261 of being in the right place at the right time 271 00:10:29,262 --> 00:10:29,999 but there were some circumstances 272 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,029 but there were some circumstances 273 00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:33,432 and some strategies that kind of worked. 274 00:10:33,433 --> 00:10:35,300 That came to me that night 275 00:10:35,301 --> 00:10:37,970 that actually that's the way to do it. 276 00:10:37,971 --> 00:10:40,472 That if you do have the people that had died 277 00:10:40,473 --> 00:10:42,241 you got to take everything off of them 278 00:10:42,242 --> 00:10:43,642 because it's not good to them, that was it. 279 00:10:43,643 --> 00:10:45,677 You had to do what you needed to do 280 00:10:45,678 --> 00:10:47,746 to survive and that was taking from the dead, 281 00:10:47,747 --> 00:10:49,115 that's what it meant. 282 00:10:51,050 --> 00:10:53,986 Not in the history of mankind 283 00:10:53,987 --> 00:10:56,588 has there been industrial killing 284 00:10:56,589 --> 00:10:57,990 on this scale. 285 00:10:57,991 --> 00:10:59,758 If something happened once, 286 00:10:59,759 --> 00:11:00,000 there's absolutely no reason why it can't happen again. 287 00:11:00,001 --> 00:11:02,529 There's absolutely no reason why it can't happen again. 288 00:11:08,668 --> 00:11:10,736 In 1943, kitty was assigned to work 289 00:11:10,737 --> 00:11:13,172 on a new rail line into birkenau, 290 00:11:13,173 --> 00:11:15,208 called the ramp. 291 00:11:16,609 --> 00:11:20,746 In 1944, she watched as transports of Jews 292 00:11:20,747 --> 00:11:23,482 from Hungary started to arrive. 293 00:11:23,483 --> 00:11:25,317 What was the importance of the ramp? 294 00:11:25,318 --> 00:11:27,486 People arrived in cattle tracks 295 00:11:27,487 --> 00:11:29,621 and sometimes seven or ten trains 296 00:11:29,622 --> 00:11:30,000 would arrive in same 24 hours. 297 00:11:30,001 --> 00:11:32,057 Would arrive in same 24 hours. 298 00:11:32,058 --> 00:11:34,359 And people were sealed in almost airtight, 299 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,162 just a little bit of air coming through the slats. 300 00:11:37,163 --> 00:11:40,165 Sometimes the trains were sealed here for hours 301 00:11:40,166 --> 00:11:43,435 before they were allowed to unload. 302 00:11:43,436 --> 00:11:44,570 Did people die in the trains? 303 00:11:44,571 --> 00:11:45,971 Yeah, a lot of people died 304 00:11:45,972 --> 00:11:47,139 before they arrived here. 305 00:11:47,140 --> 00:11:48,473 Some people traveled seven days 306 00:11:48,474 --> 00:11:50,542 before they arrived here. 307 00:11:50,543 --> 00:11:52,010 Did anyone have any idea what was happening 308 00:11:52,011 --> 00:11:53,378 when they got off the train? 309 00:11:53,379 --> 00:11:55,547 People had not the foggiest idea 310 00:11:55,548 --> 00:11:56,582 what was going to happen. 311 00:11:56,583 --> 00:11:57,749 Of course there were people 312 00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:59,084 coming from the ghettos. 313 00:11:59,085 --> 00:11:59,999 So they didn't expect anything, 314 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:00,686 so they didn't expect anything, 315 00:12:00,687 --> 00:12:03,423 you know, good, obviously. 316 00:12:04,591 --> 00:12:06,391 Everything was very nice and quiet 317 00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:08,460 because they didn't want people to panic, 318 00:12:08,461 --> 00:12:10,062 so loud speakers were here, 319 00:12:10,063 --> 00:12:11,330 telling people, 320 00:12:11,331 --> 00:12:12,698 "well, there's a lot of typhus here 321 00:12:12,699 --> 00:12:15,067 "and so we are all going to be disinfected 322 00:12:15,068 --> 00:12:16,368 "and we've got to split, 323 00:12:16,369 --> 00:12:19,638 "went from women and women with children. 324 00:12:19,639 --> 00:12:22,007 "Leave your luggage, leave your luggage, 325 00:12:22,008 --> 00:12:23,742 you're going to get your luggage later." 326 00:12:23,743 --> 00:12:26,478 And then soldiers came, "right, left, 327 00:12:26,479 --> 00:12:28,213 "men this way, women this way, 328 00:12:28,214 --> 00:12:29,999 "women with children on one side, 329 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:30,183 "women with children on one side, 330 00:12:30,184 --> 00:12:31,383 "younger people or younger, 331 00:12:31,384 --> 00:12:32,451 "you can go that way. 332 00:12:32,452 --> 00:12:34,119 "Oh, you're older, 333 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,154 "you take your child with you, it'll be fine. 334 00:12:36,155 --> 00:12:38,490 You take your child, we're not going to split you up." 335 00:12:38,491 --> 00:12:40,559 It was shocking to see 336 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,160 that you stood in the exact same place 337 00:12:42,161 --> 00:12:44,696 as those people did once. 338 00:12:44,697 --> 00:12:47,032 At the ramp, women with children 339 00:12:47,033 --> 00:12:51,036 and the elderly were sent directly to their death 340 00:12:51,037 --> 00:12:53,472 and if you were young and able-bodied 341 00:12:53,473 --> 00:12:56,174 and if at that period of time 342 00:12:56,175 --> 00:12:58,277 they needed workers, 343 00:12:58,278 --> 00:12:59,999 then you were chosen for slave labor 344 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:00,746 then you were chosen for slave labor 345 00:13:00,747 --> 00:13:02,581 which essentially meant 346 00:13:02,582 --> 00:13:06,551 that you were chosen to die slowly, 347 00:13:06,552 --> 00:13:09,489 not to die immediately in the gas chambers. 348 00:13:10,690 --> 00:13:13,492 Let me tell you, at this point, 349 00:13:13,493 --> 00:13:15,560 families were split, 350 00:13:15,561 --> 00:13:19,998 never ever saw one another again. 351 00:13:19,999 --> 00:13:22,167 So, some of the men were taken this way. 352 00:13:22,168 --> 00:13:23,568 Uh-hmm. - Okay? 353 00:13:23,569 --> 00:13:25,704 Some of the girls that were selected 354 00:13:25,705 --> 00:13:28,273 to go into the camp were taken through there. 355 00:13:28,274 --> 00:13:29,999 We were just told to go that way, 356 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:30,376 we were just told to go that way, 357 00:13:30,377 --> 00:13:31,710 and you know the road there, 358 00:13:31,711 --> 00:13:33,712 - where does that go? - The gas chambers. 359 00:13:33,713 --> 00:13:35,615 That's it. 360 00:13:41,587 --> 00:13:43,255 What happened when you arrived at camp? 361 00:13:43,256 --> 00:13:45,324 Well, we were taken to a building like this 362 00:13:45,325 --> 00:13:46,391 which we didn't know what it was 363 00:13:46,392 --> 00:13:48,627 but it was called the sauna, 364 00:13:48,628 --> 00:13:50,195 not like you and I understand it, 365 00:13:50,196 --> 00:13:51,630 the processing place. 366 00:13:51,631 --> 00:13:53,332 And the first thing that happened to you, 367 00:13:53,333 --> 00:13:54,499 you were stripped. 368 00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:56,435 Everything was taken from you, 369 00:13:56,436 --> 00:13:58,437 you were smeared with a green fluid, 370 00:13:58,438 --> 00:13:59,999 your hair was shaved everywhere. 371 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:00,605 Your hair was shaved everywhere. 372 00:14:00,606 --> 00:14:02,240 That was then packaged 373 00:14:02,241 --> 00:14:04,743 and shipped off for processing. 374 00:14:04,744 --> 00:14:07,045 Hair was used both to create cloth 375 00:14:07,046 --> 00:14:10,349 and to line submarines and its detonators. 376 00:14:10,350 --> 00:14:13,752 And then you were tattooed and believe me, 377 00:14:13,753 --> 00:14:15,721 that was when you felt you were no longer... 378 00:14:15,722 --> 00:14:18,256 It was painful. ...The same person. 379 00:14:18,257 --> 00:14:20,592 When that tattoo was placed on your arm, 380 00:14:20,593 --> 00:14:21,560 you weren't what your parents 381 00:14:21,561 --> 00:14:23,228 had given you as your name, 382 00:14:23,229 --> 00:14:24,996 you became that number 383 00:14:24,997 --> 00:14:28,700 and that was your identification completely taken away. 384 00:14:28,701 --> 00:14:29,999 Not only is it a disgusting thing to do. 385 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:30,736 Not only is it a disgusting thing to do 386 00:14:30,737 --> 00:14:33,271 to human beings but that's my grandma 387 00:14:33,272 --> 00:14:37,609 and they wanted to turn her into an animal. 388 00:14:37,610 --> 00:14:40,445 Without your hair and without your clothing, 389 00:14:40,446 --> 00:14:44,516 you lose something very distinctive about you. 390 00:14:44,517 --> 00:14:47,152 And there are people who remember at that point 391 00:14:47,153 --> 00:14:49,455 that they looked ridiculous. 392 00:14:51,124 --> 00:14:53,358 It was hard to imagine how she survived. 393 00:14:53,359 --> 00:14:54,993 Every corner she turned, 394 00:14:54,994 --> 00:14:57,663 there was something trying to stop her from living. 395 00:14:59,499 --> 00:14:59,999 First of all, survival depended. 396 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,033 First of all, survival depended 397 00:15:02,034 --> 00:15:03,568 on the place of work. 398 00:15:03,569 --> 00:15:05,237 If you were working outside 399 00:15:05,238 --> 00:15:08,173 and, you know, the commandos which are work parties, 400 00:15:08,174 --> 00:15:12,711 you hadn't had the prayer to survive for long. 401 00:15:12,712 --> 00:15:14,446 The other thing you couldn't survive 402 00:15:14,447 --> 00:15:18,984 was without a pair of shoes. 403 00:15:18,985 --> 00:15:22,020 Well, the problem was that you were issued wooden clogs. 404 00:15:22,021 --> 00:15:25,490 Your clogs would get stuck in the muds. 405 00:15:25,491 --> 00:15:27,092 Your feet would rank, 406 00:15:27,093 --> 00:15:29,294 they would get infected, you were dead. 407 00:15:29,295 --> 00:15:29,999 If you didn't have your bowl, you were dead. 408 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,730 If you didn't have your bowl, you were dead. 409 00:15:31,731 --> 00:15:35,500 Because nobody would give you their bowl. 410 00:15:35,501 --> 00:15:37,636 So survival depended on 411 00:15:37,637 --> 00:15:41,072 if you could not think about anything, 412 00:15:41,073 --> 00:15:43,542 just have a tunnel vision 413 00:15:43,543 --> 00:15:46,244 and think like an animal. 414 00:15:46,245 --> 00:15:48,580 Just picture yourself, what does an animal do? 415 00:15:48,581 --> 00:15:50,582 What does an animal need? 416 00:15:50,583 --> 00:15:53,285 Well, it doesn't need very much just to live 417 00:15:53,286 --> 00:15:55,420 but the first thing it needs is to get away 418 00:15:55,421 --> 00:15:56,521 from the predators. 419 00:15:56,522 --> 00:15:58,623 Get away from all these people 420 00:15:58,624 --> 00:15:59,999 that are trying to kill you. 421 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,193 That are trying to kill you. 422 00:16:01,194 --> 00:16:04,596 There were capos who were prison foremen 423 00:16:04,597 --> 00:16:07,065 and they became more cruel 424 00:16:07,066 --> 00:16:11,369 than the German masters themselves. 425 00:16:11,370 --> 00:16:14,539 But how do you get away from these people? 426 00:16:14,540 --> 00:16:15,707 Any of the ruling. 427 00:16:15,708 --> 00:16:17,342 Could come up to you and kill you. 428 00:16:17,343 --> 00:16:19,711 And consequently you couldn't figure out 429 00:16:19,712 --> 00:16:23,582 a strategy for survival. 430 00:16:23,583 --> 00:16:25,150 In Auschwitz, there was no why, 431 00:16:25,151 --> 00:16:29,554 it was done by whim. 432 00:16:29,555 --> 00:16:30,000 Did you know that the wooden sheds. 433 00:16:30,001 --> 00:16:31,723 Did you know that the wooden sheds 434 00:16:31,724 --> 00:16:34,159 were actually meant for 52 horses 435 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,495 and so they put these bunk things up there. 436 00:16:36,496 --> 00:16:38,430 And there were a thousand people in there? 437 00:16:38,431 --> 00:16:41,333 And a thousand people inside, that's right. 438 00:16:41,334 --> 00:16:43,001 What happened? Did--first thing in the morning 439 00:16:43,002 --> 00:16:44,069 when you woke up? 440 00:16:44,070 --> 00:16:46,071 You were woken up 441 00:16:46,072 --> 00:16:48,039 with the sound of whistles 442 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,210 roughly around about 4:00 in the morning. 443 00:16:52,612 --> 00:16:54,713 So roll calls took place twice a day 444 00:16:54,714 --> 00:16:57,749 and roll calls was one of the greatest terrors 445 00:16:57,750 --> 00:16:59,085 of the camp. 446 00:17:01,487 --> 00:17:04,389 Whistles blew and everybody screams 447 00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:07,292 "out, out, out, schnell, rouse, rouse." 448 00:17:07,293 --> 00:17:09,361 Total chaos, a thousand people 449 00:17:09,362 --> 00:17:12,063 had to rush out of this door. 450 00:17:12,064 --> 00:17:14,699 And you see the grounds, you're looking at grass, 451 00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:16,334 but you must look at mud, 452 00:17:16,335 --> 00:17:20,071 the whole thing was just one sea of mud. 453 00:17:20,072 --> 00:17:23,208 I've always said, "if you found a blade of grass, 454 00:17:23,209 --> 00:17:25,043 what would you do with it?" 455 00:17:25,044 --> 00:17:27,145 You'd eat it. Oh. 456 00:17:27,146 --> 00:17:29,999 So people were just staggering around the mud 457 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:30,149 so people were just staggering around the mud 458 00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:33,418 but of course you had to stand to attention. 459 00:17:33,419 --> 00:17:35,120 Selection didn't just take place 460 00:17:35,121 --> 00:17:36,655 on arrival at Auschwitz, 461 00:17:36,656 --> 00:17:38,323 it was a daily occurrence. 462 00:17:38,324 --> 00:17:42,060 In fact, anytime the prisoners were together, 463 00:17:42,061 --> 00:17:44,296 if anybody at any point in time 464 00:17:44,297 --> 00:17:45,997 tipped over into that place 465 00:17:45,998 --> 00:17:47,766 where they were no longer useful to the Nazis, 466 00:17:47,767 --> 00:17:50,001 they could simply be selected 467 00:17:50,002 --> 00:17:52,103 and sent them to the gas chamber. 468 00:17:52,104 --> 00:17:53,638 People just collapsed and died. 469 00:17:53,639 --> 00:17:55,540 Yeah. Died of tiredness, 470 00:17:55,541 --> 00:17:57,275 of exhaustion, of shock. 471 00:17:57,276 --> 00:17:59,678 Did you ever have to collect the corpses after roll call? 472 00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:00,000 Yes, yes. Yes, you did? 473 00:18:00,001 --> 00:18:01,346 Yes, yes. Yes, you did? 474 00:18:01,347 --> 00:18:04,082 Oh, yes. At that--when I was in the liechenkommando, 475 00:18:04,083 --> 00:18:06,218 this is what we did. 476 00:18:12,091 --> 00:18:13,558 Well, I don't know if people realize 477 00:18:13,559 --> 00:18:15,493 but when you are hungry, 478 00:18:15,494 --> 00:18:18,096 hunger is a total obsession. 479 00:18:18,097 --> 00:18:20,131 You're just thinking hunger, hunger, 480 00:18:20,132 --> 00:18:22,000 I must have something to eat, 481 00:18:22,001 --> 00:18:24,170 I must--if I don't eat something, I'll die. 482 00:18:25,738 --> 00:18:28,607 It depended where you were in line 483 00:18:28,608 --> 00:18:29,999 as to how much nutrition you got. 484 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:30,976 As to how much nutrition you got. 485 00:18:30,977 --> 00:18:32,577 If you're at the beginning of the line, 486 00:18:32,578 --> 00:18:34,079 you got pure water. 487 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,014 If you're at the end of the line, 488 00:18:36,015 --> 00:18:40,185 you had a problem because they might run out of food. 489 00:18:40,186 --> 00:18:43,054 And if you knew the person who was ladling out the food, 490 00:18:43,055 --> 00:18:45,123 then in one sense they dug deep 491 00:18:45,124 --> 00:18:47,592 and they got the stuff in the soup 492 00:18:47,593 --> 00:18:49,361 that landed at the bottom, 493 00:18:49,362 --> 00:18:53,199 whether it's a potato or a carrot or something. 494 00:18:58,437 --> 00:18:59,999 Hunger is the worst thing. 495 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:00,039 Hunger is the worst thing 496 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,242 that anybody can experience, I think. 497 00:19:09,115 --> 00:19:11,149 Did you stay in a bunk like this? 498 00:19:11,150 --> 00:19:14,052 If you were lucky, there was one straw mattress. 499 00:19:14,053 --> 00:19:16,688 And one blanket for eight people. 500 00:19:16,689 --> 00:19:18,523 How did eight people sleep here? 501 00:19:18,524 --> 00:19:20,125 Like sardines, next to each other. 502 00:19:20,126 --> 00:19:22,160 - That's it, you got it. - Yeah. 503 00:19:22,161 --> 00:19:24,129 Head to feet. So, you had somebody's feet 504 00:19:24,130 --> 00:19:25,697 in your face. Yeah. 505 00:19:25,698 --> 00:19:27,098 Did people die in the night then? 506 00:19:27,099 --> 00:19:28,299 Did you have any experience with that? 507 00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:29,999 Yes. People died in the night. That's right. 508 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:30,102 Yes. People died in the night. That's right. 509 00:19:30,103 --> 00:19:32,237 If somebody died next to you, 510 00:19:32,238 --> 00:19:36,474 all of a sudden, you found your own body heat going out. 511 00:19:36,475 --> 00:19:38,743 You needed the warmth of the other body 512 00:19:38,744 --> 00:19:40,478 in order to stay-- 513 00:19:40,479 --> 00:19:43,615 I wouldn't say warm but to stay less cold 514 00:19:43,616 --> 00:19:45,617 during the frigid nights. 515 00:19:45,618 --> 00:19:48,520 Suppose you need to go to the toilet at night. 516 00:19:48,521 --> 00:19:49,754 There's no toilets in here. 517 00:19:49,755 --> 00:19:51,022 ( Well, a ) There are no toilets, 518 00:19:51,023 --> 00:19:54,092 ( b ) You were not allowed out. 519 00:19:54,093 --> 00:19:56,094 The barracks had buckets. 520 00:19:56,095 --> 00:19:59,064 Now, a veteran prisoner would try to judge 521 00:19:59,065 --> 00:19:59,999 when to go to the bathroom at night 522 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,499 when to go to the bathroom at night 523 00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:04,202 by such a way as listening very carefully 524 00:20:04,203 --> 00:20:07,605 to what happened to the prisoner before you 525 00:20:07,606 --> 00:20:10,241 to make sure that you weren't the last 526 00:20:10,242 --> 00:20:11,443 to fill the bucket 527 00:20:11,444 --> 00:20:14,012 because if you were last to fill the bucket, 528 00:20:14,013 --> 00:20:16,247 you had to take it out and empty it. 529 00:20:16,248 --> 00:20:17,716 You look at that. 530 00:20:17,717 --> 00:20:19,050 - Yes. - You see what this is? 531 00:20:19,051 --> 00:20:20,318 Yeah, it's mud. 532 00:20:20,319 --> 00:20:22,120 That's just mud. That's right. 533 00:20:22,121 --> 00:20:24,656 And very often there was a mess here as well 534 00:20:24,657 --> 00:20:27,192 because you couldn't get to the bucket. 535 00:20:27,193 --> 00:20:29,999 You had to permission to even during the night 536 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:30,262 you had to permission to even during the night 537 00:20:30,263 --> 00:20:32,097 to use the bucket. 538 00:20:32,098 --> 00:20:34,299 So, those were your living quarters. 539 00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:36,968 It was just so horrific to think that anybody 540 00:20:36,969 --> 00:20:39,504 could stuff all these people in this tiny space. 541 00:20:39,505 --> 00:20:41,039 I have a place to go to the toilet 542 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,240 and I have a place to sleep 543 00:20:42,241 --> 00:20:43,975 and I have place to have food 544 00:20:43,976 --> 00:20:45,276 and I know that I will get it. 545 00:20:45,277 --> 00:20:48,079 The Nazis made sure in every way possible 546 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,982 you didn't get what you needed. 547 00:20:50,983 --> 00:20:52,984 Something to eat, 548 00:20:52,985 --> 00:20:55,286 somewhere to sleep, 549 00:20:55,287 --> 00:20:57,689 and I'm afraid if you don't mind the language, 550 00:20:57,690 --> 00:20:59,291 somewhere to shit. 551 00:21:02,128 --> 00:21:05,230 Now, what I'm going to show you is the latrines. 552 00:21:05,231 --> 00:21:08,099 Okay? Now, see that entrance? Uh-hmm. 553 00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:10,602 Thousands, thousands had to get through 554 00:21:10,603 --> 00:21:12,637 this entrance and of course 555 00:21:12,638 --> 00:21:15,006 there was a functionary prisoner in charge 556 00:21:15,007 --> 00:21:18,009 and wouldn't let you in, but did you know, 557 00:21:18,010 --> 00:21:19,444 I worked there at one stage. 558 00:21:19,445 --> 00:21:22,680 So, let's just show you what it was like. 559 00:21:22,681 --> 00:21:24,682 How did you get the job to work here? 560 00:21:24,683 --> 00:21:26,985 Well, I had to buy myself to work. 561 00:21:26,986 --> 00:21:28,186 I thought it'd be a good place. 562 00:21:28,187 --> 00:21:29,687 At least I have access to the lavatory. 563 00:21:29,688 --> 00:21:30,000 Yeah. And it was horrible. 564 00:21:30,001 --> 00:21:31,623 Yeah. And it was horrible. 565 00:21:31,624 --> 00:21:33,057 There's nothing further 566 00:21:33,058 --> 00:21:34,492 from what a 16-year-old girl 567 00:21:34,493 --> 00:21:36,394 would want to be doing with her life 568 00:21:36,395 --> 00:21:39,564 than having her arms in shit. 569 00:21:39,565 --> 00:21:42,300 And yet, for her that was a privilege 570 00:21:42,301 --> 00:21:44,335 because when she was in the scheisskommando, 571 00:21:44,336 --> 00:21:46,471 it meant that she wasn't digging a ditch. 572 00:21:46,472 --> 00:21:48,439 She didn't have somebody flogging her to death 573 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,508 because she couldn't dig fast enough. 574 00:21:50,509 --> 00:21:52,410 She wasn't actually freezing to death 575 00:21:52,411 --> 00:21:54,312 because she was inside 576 00:21:54,313 --> 00:21:57,182 and what's more, the Nazis were nowhere near that place. 577 00:21:57,183 --> 00:21:58,383 So, being in this scheisskommando 578 00:21:58,384 --> 00:21:59,999 was a 16-year-old's dream in Auschwitz. 579 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,086 Was a 16-year-old's dream in Auschwitz. 580 00:22:02,087 --> 00:22:04,190 So, that was an open sewer. 581 00:22:06,058 --> 00:22:08,359 Thousands of women going in there, 582 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,162 you had, like, two or three people to a hole 583 00:22:11,163 --> 00:22:13,298 because you didn't have it to yourself 584 00:22:13,299 --> 00:22:16,534 and then when people were finishing, 585 00:22:16,535 --> 00:22:18,603 you had to dig all that stuff out, 586 00:22:18,604 --> 00:22:20,239 so everything had to come out. 587 00:22:23,175 --> 00:22:28,713 Think of the idea that you have 35,000 people 588 00:22:28,714 --> 00:22:29,999 using these latrines. 589 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,149 Using these latrines. 590 00:22:31,150 --> 00:22:34,752 So it was designed again to dehumanize the people, 591 00:22:34,753 --> 00:22:38,357 to degrade them to make them live in their own filth. 592 00:22:39,658 --> 00:22:41,226 Why dehumanize these people 593 00:22:41,227 --> 00:22:43,728 if they're gonna kill them anyhow? 594 00:22:43,729 --> 00:22:47,065 Because if people look like a lump of feces, 595 00:22:47,066 --> 00:22:49,500 then it's easy to flush it down the toilet. 596 00:22:49,501 --> 00:22:51,502 And what would happen if you couldn't get in, 597 00:22:51,503 --> 00:22:54,072 how would you go to the toilet? 598 00:22:54,073 --> 00:22:56,141 You had your bowl. 599 00:22:57,509 --> 00:22:58,977 Yeah. And your bowl 600 00:22:58,978 --> 00:22:59,999 was virtually your food or your toilet. 601 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:00,979 Was virtually your food or your toilet. 602 00:23:00,980 --> 00:23:02,247 Uh-hmm. Yeah. 603 00:23:02,248 --> 00:23:03,615 The problem was washing it out, right? 604 00:23:03,616 --> 00:23:05,683 Yeah. There was no water. How did you wash it out? 605 00:23:05,684 --> 00:23:07,118 No water. 606 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:08,086 In the winter you had snow, 607 00:23:08,087 --> 00:23:09,254 you can wipe it out. 608 00:23:09,255 --> 00:23:10,555 In the summer, it wasn't so. 609 00:23:10,556 --> 00:23:12,257 And you couldn't do anything on the ground 610 00:23:12,258 --> 00:23:14,392 because if somebody-- They could see you... 611 00:23:14,393 --> 00:23:15,460 And they're in trouble. 612 00:23:15,461 --> 00:23:16,761 Well, not only they're in trouble, 613 00:23:16,762 --> 00:23:17,762 you got killed. Yeah. 614 00:23:17,763 --> 00:23:19,265 Full stop. 615 00:23:23,202 --> 00:23:27,639 And we haven't got the words to describe the intense cold. 616 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,974 Well, I was thinking of penguins actually, 617 00:23:29,975 --> 00:23:30,000 how did penguins survive in the antarctic? 618 00:23:30,001 --> 00:23:32,977 How did penguins survive in the antarctic? 619 00:23:32,978 --> 00:23:36,047 Well, if you look at them, they huddle together 620 00:23:36,048 --> 00:23:39,050 and try to have body heat from each other. 621 00:23:39,051 --> 00:23:41,286 Well, that's exactly what it was. 622 00:23:41,287 --> 00:23:45,324 So that was trying to overcome the cold. 623 00:23:46,292 --> 00:23:48,226 It must have been horrific 624 00:23:48,227 --> 00:23:51,262 to have to stand still in the cold with no shoes, 625 00:23:51,263 --> 00:23:54,032 hours and hours on end, when she was hungry, 626 00:23:54,033 --> 00:23:55,366 starving, tired, 627 00:23:55,367 --> 00:23:58,270 and there was nothing she could do about that. 628 00:24:05,344 --> 00:24:07,745 During selection, that was most feared, 629 00:24:07,746 --> 00:24:10,214 because then you knew, at random, 630 00:24:10,215 --> 00:24:12,050 you could be selected to die. 631 00:24:12,051 --> 00:24:14,986 So fear, that was the greatest fear, 632 00:24:14,987 --> 00:24:17,355 selections. 633 00:24:17,356 --> 00:24:18,656 What's this block here with the bars? 634 00:24:18,657 --> 00:24:20,591 Well, this is called block 25. 635 00:24:20,592 --> 00:24:22,393 You see the number here and you see the bars 636 00:24:22,394 --> 00:24:24,095 - on the windows? - Yeah. 637 00:24:24,096 --> 00:24:26,064 Well, that's the only block that had the bars. 638 00:24:26,065 --> 00:24:27,365 It's called the death block. 639 00:24:27,366 --> 00:24:28,733 Block 25 was the place 640 00:24:28,734 --> 00:24:29,999 where inmates once they had been selected 641 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,970 where inmates once they had been selected 642 00:24:31,971 --> 00:24:34,305 were sent to await death. 643 00:24:34,306 --> 00:24:36,474 The Nazis, of course, because they were operating 644 00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:38,609 the campus efficiently as possible, 645 00:24:38,610 --> 00:24:40,745 wouldn't simply select two or three inmates 646 00:24:40,746 --> 00:24:42,647 and then send them to the gas chamber 647 00:24:42,648 --> 00:24:46,250 because it wasn't worth turning the gas chamber on. 648 00:24:46,251 --> 00:24:47,552 So what would happen is they would collect 649 00:24:47,553 --> 00:24:49,554 several hundreds of these prisons 650 00:24:49,555 --> 00:24:51,456 who are at the end of their usefulness 651 00:24:51,457 --> 00:24:53,291 and then dispatch them to the gas chamber 652 00:24:53,292 --> 00:24:55,526 when it was convenient. 653 00:24:55,527 --> 00:24:59,999 I'm going to explain to you what's inside here. 654 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:00,032 I'm going to explain to you what's inside here. 655 00:25:00,033 --> 00:25:01,466 Everybody kept away from here 656 00:25:01,467 --> 00:25:03,401 because once selections were taking place 657 00:25:03,402 --> 00:25:05,269 in all these blocks, 658 00:25:05,270 --> 00:25:07,171 people would have to undress 659 00:25:07,172 --> 00:25:10,041 and turn around in front of the ss doctor. 660 00:25:10,042 --> 00:25:11,476 And if they didn't like your skin 661 00:25:11,477 --> 00:25:14,645 or if you are too thin or if you couldn't walk, 662 00:25:14,646 --> 00:25:16,080 they would take a mark, 663 00:25:16,081 --> 00:25:17,415 and mark up your number. 664 00:25:17,416 --> 00:25:19,317 Did anyone survive once in there? 665 00:25:19,318 --> 00:25:21,052 No, no, nobody survived. No. 666 00:25:21,053 --> 00:25:23,087 No, you could never get anyone out. 667 00:25:23,088 --> 00:25:27,425 Once they were here, that was the end. 668 00:25:27,426 --> 00:25:29,560 You are very taken aback by it. 669 00:25:29,561 --> 00:25:30,000 Kitty told me that they had no clothes 670 00:25:30,001 --> 00:25:32,230 kitty told me that they had no clothes 671 00:25:32,231 --> 00:25:34,065 and you could see that their hands 672 00:25:34,066 --> 00:25:36,200 were through the window begging for food 673 00:25:36,201 --> 00:25:37,969 or water or anything. 674 00:25:37,970 --> 00:25:40,038 The reason block 25 is such a prominent place 675 00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:42,106 in her memory is of course because 676 00:25:42,107 --> 00:25:43,241 all of the inmates 677 00:25:43,242 --> 00:25:45,109 in the women's camp could see it. 678 00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:47,311 It was right alongside their own barracks. 679 00:25:47,312 --> 00:25:49,580 They could hear the desperation 680 00:25:49,581 --> 00:25:51,616 of the women that were in there, 681 00:25:51,617 --> 00:25:55,153 knowing that there was literally no way out. 682 00:25:55,154 --> 00:25:56,654 Of course, everybody kept away from me 683 00:25:56,655 --> 00:25:58,756 and when they opened up the doors... 684 00:25:58,757 --> 00:25:59,999 It smelled. The stench went right 685 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,159 it smelled. The stench went right 686 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:02,461 through the camp. 687 00:26:08,033 --> 00:26:09,434 Well, language was a big, big problem 688 00:26:09,435 --> 00:26:12,503 because the camp had its own language. 689 00:26:12,504 --> 00:26:16,340 And it was actually a combined German and Polish sort of slang. 690 00:26:16,341 --> 00:26:19,610 For instance, the woman who was in charge of the block 691 00:26:19,611 --> 00:26:21,512 was called the... 692 00:26:21,513 --> 00:26:24,115 So okay, so if you didn't know the German word, 693 00:26:24,116 --> 00:26:25,550 you wouldn't have known what it was. 694 00:26:25,551 --> 00:26:29,554 Her helpers were called... 695 00:26:29,555 --> 00:26:30,000 ...is a room in German 696 00:26:30,001 --> 00:26:32,523 ...is a room in German 697 00:26:32,524 --> 00:26:35,159 but was kind of made into Polish. 698 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,062 It was a slang that you had to understand. 699 00:26:38,063 --> 00:26:40,698 And that was the problem with the greeks, the Italians, 700 00:26:40,699 --> 00:26:43,267 the Hungarians, they just couldn't understand. 701 00:26:43,268 --> 00:26:46,071 If you didn't, again, you couldn't survive. 702 00:26:53,212 --> 00:26:56,147 I lost my friends all the time 703 00:26:56,148 --> 00:26:57,381 and that was the worst of it 704 00:26:57,382 --> 00:26:59,350 that you've had your friends, 705 00:26:59,351 --> 00:26:59,999 you established the contact, 706 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:00,685 you established the contact, 707 00:27:00,686 --> 00:27:03,087 you already had someone that was-- 708 00:27:03,088 --> 00:27:04,589 Had access and you could get this 709 00:27:04,590 --> 00:27:07,291 and you could get that and you could get a bit of food 710 00:27:07,292 --> 00:27:09,660 and then all of a sudden, they were gone. 711 00:27:09,661 --> 00:27:12,597 Just having somebody that you knew 712 00:27:12,598 --> 00:27:15,299 that could help you in a given moment in time 713 00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:17,435 could be the difference between life and death. 714 00:27:17,436 --> 00:27:20,671 Everybody needed the friendship 715 00:27:20,672 --> 00:27:22,173 or the sense of "I need you," 716 00:27:22,174 --> 00:27:25,476 to be able to mediate 717 00:27:25,477 --> 00:27:27,278 a situation that wasn't designed 718 00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:29,999 to allow you to live. 719 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:30,182 To allow you to live. 720 00:27:30,183 --> 00:27:32,183 What were the white things on these fences? 721 00:27:32,184 --> 00:27:34,185 Now, if you look at these white things, 722 00:27:34,186 --> 00:27:36,755 that's high-tension electric fencing. 723 00:27:39,191 --> 00:27:42,360 You were very, very cautious not to go too close. 724 00:27:42,361 --> 00:27:44,596 Because if you did, you committed suicide. 725 00:27:47,733 --> 00:27:49,367 People commit suicide often? 726 00:27:49,368 --> 00:27:50,635 That was the easiest way out. 727 00:27:50,636 --> 00:27:53,337 You just touched a fence and you were dead. 728 00:27:53,338 --> 00:27:57,241 And if you touched this person, you were dead as well 729 00:27:57,242 --> 00:27:59,076 because electricity would pass through your body 730 00:27:59,077 --> 00:27:59,999 to the next person. 731 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:00,445 To the next person. 732 00:28:00,446 --> 00:28:04,515 Or you were shot from the watch towers if you came too close. 733 00:28:04,516 --> 00:28:06,552 So yes, people went on the fence, yes. 734 00:28:12,157 --> 00:28:16,227 There was universal word which was called "organizing." 735 00:28:16,228 --> 00:28:18,396 And that amounts to getting hold of. 736 00:28:18,397 --> 00:28:20,665 Didn't matter what it was, whether you bought it, 737 00:28:20,666 --> 00:28:23,201 whether it was stolen, whether you found it, 738 00:28:23,202 --> 00:28:26,170 it was all one word and it was called "organizing." 739 00:28:26,171 --> 00:28:29,574 I organized some bread. I organized a pair of shoes. 740 00:28:29,575 --> 00:28:30,000 I organized something to wear. 741 00:28:30,001 --> 00:28:32,476 I organized something to wear. 742 00:28:32,477 --> 00:28:34,378 So what did women do? 743 00:28:34,379 --> 00:28:37,582 They always tried to get two or three together. 744 00:28:37,583 --> 00:28:39,450 Four was the best. 745 00:28:39,451 --> 00:28:40,651 One working in one place, 746 00:28:40,652 --> 00:28:43,254 one working perhaps had access to the toilet, 747 00:28:43,255 --> 00:28:45,323 like I did at one time, 748 00:28:45,324 --> 00:28:47,124 one had access to water, 749 00:28:47,125 --> 00:28:49,360 one perhaps had access to some clothes, 750 00:28:49,361 --> 00:28:52,597 to the sauna, and that's how you exchanged 751 00:28:52,598 --> 00:28:54,165 and that was the mutual support 752 00:28:54,166 --> 00:28:56,534 that was absolutely vital to survival. 753 00:28:56,535 --> 00:28:58,704 If you didn't have that, you couldn't survive. 754 00:28:59,972 --> 00:29:00,000 We're going to block 12. 755 00:29:00,001 --> 00:29:01,505 We're going to block 12 756 00:29:01,506 --> 00:29:04,041 because all that was part of sick bay. 757 00:29:04,042 --> 00:29:05,443 Did you come here a lot then? 758 00:29:05,444 --> 00:29:07,178 I tried to hide there 759 00:29:07,179 --> 00:29:08,546 just to conserve my energy. 760 00:29:08,547 --> 00:29:12,049 My mother sometimes would hide me somewhere. 761 00:29:12,050 --> 00:29:14,385 Kitty's mother was a very highly educated 762 00:29:14,386 --> 00:29:15,987 and cultured woman. 763 00:29:15,988 --> 00:29:17,521 Once she got into the holocaust, 764 00:29:17,522 --> 00:29:19,123 her knowledge of German 765 00:29:19,124 --> 00:29:21,325 was gonna be really important to her. 766 00:29:21,326 --> 00:29:23,294 She had both the physical attributes 767 00:29:23,295 --> 00:29:25,096 and the mental attributes 768 00:29:25,097 --> 00:29:26,697 to be able to work away 769 00:29:26,698 --> 00:29:28,599 through very difficult circumstances. 770 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:29,999 And my mother worked right throughout the time. 771 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,302 And my mother worked right throughout the time. 772 00:29:31,303 --> 00:29:33,537 She was working there. 773 00:29:33,538 --> 00:29:35,206 She was supposed to be a nurse 774 00:29:35,207 --> 00:29:37,141 but because you couldn't nurse anyone, 775 00:29:37,142 --> 00:29:40,611 my mother psychologically tried to keep people alive 776 00:29:40,612 --> 00:29:43,981 by simply begging them to live another day. 777 00:29:43,982 --> 00:29:45,716 Working in the hospital meant that her mother 778 00:29:45,717 --> 00:29:47,551 was able to help kitty. 779 00:29:47,552 --> 00:29:50,688 Between the two of them, they could work together to enable-- 780 00:29:50,689 --> 00:29:53,524 Just increasing the chances of survival a little. 781 00:29:53,525 --> 00:29:55,393 My mother was working in an infirmary, 782 00:29:55,394 --> 00:29:57,161 an infectious block. 783 00:29:57,162 --> 00:29:59,999 If someone that had typhus, I was on my mother's block. 784 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:00,065 If someone that had typhus, I was on my mother's block. 785 00:30:00,066 --> 00:30:03,668 And I was lucky enough to be told I'd be able to stay 786 00:30:03,669 --> 00:30:05,970 and work within the, 787 00:30:05,971 --> 00:30:07,538 you know, within the infirmary. 788 00:30:07,539 --> 00:30:09,674 So, I was a glorified cleaner 789 00:30:09,675 --> 00:30:11,275 but really my function 790 00:30:11,276 --> 00:30:13,344 was to bring the bodies out 791 00:30:13,345 --> 00:30:16,147 that died, you know, people died during the night 792 00:30:16,148 --> 00:30:18,649 and some of the bodies were up there. 793 00:30:18,650 --> 00:30:21,118 So, two of us had to climb up there 794 00:30:21,119 --> 00:30:24,455 and get the--get the corpses down, 795 00:30:24,456 --> 00:30:26,057 dragged them all the way 796 00:30:26,058 --> 00:30:27,758 and stack them up outside. 797 00:30:27,759 --> 00:30:29,999 And I actually hid some of my friends here. 798 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,462 And I actually hid some of my friends here. 799 00:30:31,463 --> 00:30:34,165 I managed to bring them in here 800 00:30:34,166 --> 00:30:35,366 because I had access 801 00:30:35,367 --> 00:30:37,034 but I told them it was the most 802 00:30:37,035 --> 00:30:38,202 dangerous place to be 803 00:30:38,203 --> 00:30:39,704 because nearly every day, 804 00:30:39,705 --> 00:30:41,505 the ss doctors would come in 805 00:30:41,506 --> 00:30:43,474 and carry out selections. 806 00:30:43,475 --> 00:30:44,408 They would sit people up, 807 00:30:44,409 --> 00:30:46,344 sometimes they had to jump. 808 00:30:46,345 --> 00:30:49,580 If they couldn't jump over this heating channel 809 00:30:49,581 --> 00:30:51,182 they'd be killed. 810 00:30:51,183 --> 00:30:52,583 Of course the sick couldn't get down 811 00:30:52,584 --> 00:30:54,752 so the ss doctors would just, 812 00:30:54,753 --> 00:30:58,456 with a chalk, mark up a bunk. 813 00:30:58,457 --> 00:30:59,999 Well, of course we know what happened. 814 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:00,758 Well, of course we know what happened. 815 00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:03,494 Dr. Mengele came and said, 816 00:31:03,495 --> 00:31:05,629 "today, we're emptying this block," 817 00:31:05,630 --> 00:31:09,200 which meant, today they're all going to die. 818 00:31:09,201 --> 00:31:10,701 Did they know what was happening? 819 00:31:10,702 --> 00:31:12,069 Well, they already knew what was happening. 820 00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:14,739 So, we had to stand like this. 821 00:31:14,740 --> 00:31:17,676 So, in a circle, holding. 822 00:31:20,445 --> 00:31:23,013 And that's when I lost most of my friends 823 00:31:23,014 --> 00:31:24,682 and that broke me. 824 00:31:24,683 --> 00:31:27,551 I never got over that. 825 00:31:27,552 --> 00:31:29,620 My mother realized what was going on 826 00:31:29,621 --> 00:31:30,000 and from somewhere she appeared 827 00:31:30,001 --> 00:31:31,122 and from somewhere she appeared 828 00:31:31,123 --> 00:31:32,390 and she just grabbed me 829 00:31:32,391 --> 00:31:34,592 and then pulled me away. 830 00:31:34,593 --> 00:31:36,660 And at that point, you know, 831 00:31:36,661 --> 00:31:38,262 we thought what was going to happen next. 832 00:31:38,263 --> 00:31:39,564 It's all empty. 833 00:31:41,767 --> 00:31:44,970 They were gone and I was on my own. 834 00:31:48,507 --> 00:31:50,608 There was a place called kanada 835 00:31:50,609 --> 00:31:52,276 named after the country Canada 836 00:31:52,277 --> 00:31:53,577 which was the place in which 837 00:31:53,578 --> 00:31:55,613 they confiscated all of the valuables. 838 00:31:55,614 --> 00:31:58,115 They sorted it. They inventoried it. 839 00:31:58,116 --> 00:31:59,999 They then shipped it back to Germany for use. 840 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,018 They then shipped it back to Germany for use. 841 00:32:01,019 --> 00:32:02,520 They came and said 842 00:32:02,521 --> 00:32:05,122 "we're going to ask you to join the kanada." 843 00:32:05,123 --> 00:32:07,558 My mother said, "there'll be food there. 844 00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:09,260 "You must do it. There will be food. 845 00:32:09,261 --> 00:32:11,128 You'll find it among the clothes." 846 00:32:11,129 --> 00:32:13,364 And so I said, "yes, okay." 847 00:32:13,365 --> 00:32:16,268 And that's how I got to the kanada. 848 00:32:31,283 --> 00:32:32,450 I'm going to tell you 849 00:32:32,451 --> 00:32:34,652 why I brought you here. 850 00:32:34,653 --> 00:32:37,721 Thousands upon thousands of people were brought in 851 00:32:37,722 --> 00:32:40,024 - with all their belongings. - Yeah. 852 00:32:40,025 --> 00:32:43,360 Kitty really wanted to tell the story of kanada. 853 00:32:43,361 --> 00:32:45,496 For her, it's about evidence. 854 00:32:45,497 --> 00:32:47,331 Each one of those suitcases 855 00:32:47,332 --> 00:32:48,532 belonged to a human being 856 00:32:48,533 --> 00:32:50,000 and each one of those clothes 857 00:32:50,001 --> 00:32:52,603 was worn by one of those human beings. 858 00:32:52,604 --> 00:32:54,705 What she's trying to get across to is-- 859 00:32:54,706 --> 00:32:57,041 I think is just the scale of the killing 860 00:32:57,042 --> 00:32:58,676 based on the scale of that side. 861 00:32:58,677 --> 00:32:59,999 There were 30 sheds here. 862 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,345 There were 30 sheds here 863 00:33:01,346 --> 00:33:03,481 all full of people's belongings. 864 00:33:03,482 --> 00:33:05,583 And we were here to do 865 00:33:05,584 --> 00:33:07,117 the sorting of the belongings. 866 00:33:07,118 --> 00:33:08,686 How long were you working here for? 867 00:33:08,687 --> 00:33:10,554 I was here eight months. 868 00:33:10,555 --> 00:33:12,590 There were two passways. 869 00:33:12,591 --> 00:33:13,757 That passway at the bottom 870 00:33:13,758 --> 00:33:16,727 had a huge heap like three-storey high. 871 00:33:16,728 --> 00:33:18,462 Everybody's things jumbled up. 872 00:33:18,463 --> 00:33:20,564 All the suitcases were emptied there. 873 00:33:20,565 --> 00:33:24,201 Documents, children's clothes, prams, 874 00:33:24,202 --> 00:33:25,736 everything was jumbled up down the bottom there 875 00:33:25,737 --> 00:33:29,006 and then it was taken to individual sheds 876 00:33:29,007 --> 00:33:29,999 and there, it was sorted. 877 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,409 And there, it was sorted. 878 00:33:33,678 --> 00:33:36,347 My particular job was sorting 879 00:33:36,348 --> 00:33:39,083 nothing but men's jackets. 880 00:33:39,084 --> 00:33:41,418 So I had to find these men's jackets 881 00:33:41,419 --> 00:33:43,220 and I couldn't always find them, 882 00:33:43,221 --> 00:33:47,458 because I had a certain quota that I had to make. 883 00:33:47,459 --> 00:33:49,159 What happened if you didn't make the quota? 884 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,063 Oh, you got punished if you didn't make the quota. 885 00:33:53,064 --> 00:33:56,500 And in the shed was a long table 886 00:33:56,501 --> 00:33:58,168 like a trestle 887 00:33:58,169 --> 00:33:59,999 and you put the jackets on the trestle 888 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,739 and you put the jackets on the trestle 889 00:34:01,740 --> 00:34:04,142 and you opened up all these things. 890 00:34:05,143 --> 00:34:07,344 What do you think was in these jackets? 891 00:34:07,345 --> 00:34:09,980 Lots of jewelry and... Lots of jewelry. 892 00:34:09,981 --> 00:34:12,483 Diamonds, jewelry, money of all 893 00:34:12,484 --> 00:34:14,652 different denominations. 894 00:34:14,653 --> 00:34:16,186 Did you always give everything in 895 00:34:16,187 --> 00:34:17,988 or did you, sometimes, hide it and then... 896 00:34:17,989 --> 00:34:20,457 No. If you kept one single item 897 00:34:20,458 --> 00:34:22,359 of any value, that was the end 898 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:23,594 because there was constant inspections. 899 00:34:23,595 --> 00:34:25,564 So you couldn't keep it. 900 00:34:28,166 --> 00:34:29,999 And, you know, we found a lot of paper money. 901 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:30,468 And, you know, we found a lot of paper money. 902 00:34:30,469 --> 00:34:32,136 Yeah. As you can imagine. 903 00:34:32,137 --> 00:34:33,971 What do you think we did with this paper money? 904 00:34:33,972 --> 00:34:35,406 Because it wasn't any good to you, 905 00:34:35,407 --> 00:34:36,607 you couldn't buy anything. 906 00:34:36,608 --> 00:34:37,708 What did we do with it? 907 00:34:37,709 --> 00:34:39,276 You did insulation? 908 00:34:39,277 --> 00:34:40,544 No. We made that... Toilet paper. 909 00:34:40,545 --> 00:34:42,379 ...toilet paper. Toilet paper. 910 00:34:42,380 --> 00:34:45,215 All kind of dollars, kronas, 911 00:34:45,216 --> 00:34:47,685 whatever currency there was, 912 00:34:47,686 --> 00:34:50,020 was used as toilet paper. 913 00:34:50,021 --> 00:34:53,490 One of the ss who took us to the kanada 914 00:34:53,491 --> 00:34:55,259 made a speech and he said, 915 00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:57,027 "because you are here, 916 00:34:57,028 --> 00:34:59,396 "you're never going to be back in the main camp. 917 00:34:59,397 --> 00:34:59,999 "Because what you see, we cannot allow it. 918 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,765 "Because what you see, we cannot allow it. 919 00:35:01,766 --> 00:35:04,168 "There's only one way out of here, 920 00:35:04,169 --> 00:35:06,271 and that's through the chimney." 921 00:35:12,277 --> 00:35:13,644 What is this place? 922 00:35:13,645 --> 00:35:15,646 Well, you see these ruins. 923 00:35:15,647 --> 00:35:17,481 That's all we can see. 924 00:35:17,482 --> 00:35:21,151 That was known as the white house. 925 00:35:21,152 --> 00:35:23,587 This was a place where the commander 926 00:35:23,588 --> 00:35:25,656 and the people who were working inside the gas chambers, 927 00:35:25,657 --> 00:35:27,124 they were working here. 928 00:35:27,125 --> 00:35:29,326 We were not supposed to be here. 929 00:35:29,327 --> 00:35:29,999 You see where the sauna is? 930 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,362 You see where the sauna is? 931 00:35:31,363 --> 00:35:33,063 That's how close we are to the sauna. 932 00:35:33,064 --> 00:35:34,531 We're not allowed to come here. 933 00:35:34,532 --> 00:35:38,435 However, on about four or five occasions, 934 00:35:38,436 --> 00:35:40,337 I managed to pass this place. 935 00:35:40,338 --> 00:35:45,042 And the circumstances were that we took some clothes 936 00:35:45,043 --> 00:35:48,345 in hand carts and we were told to take those hand carts 937 00:35:48,346 --> 00:35:49,747 back to the main camp. 938 00:35:49,748 --> 00:35:52,449 Now, the ss woman who accompanied us, 939 00:35:52,450 --> 00:35:55,019 she didn't like going in between the fences 940 00:35:55,020 --> 00:35:58,022 because she was afraid that she was gonna get electrocuted. 941 00:35:58,023 --> 00:35:59,999 So she decided to take us this way. 942 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:00,325 So she decided to take us this way. 943 00:36:00,326 --> 00:36:02,226 So what happens, we walked along here 944 00:36:02,227 --> 00:36:05,462 and we passed this place here which was the white house. 945 00:36:05,463 --> 00:36:08,632 People were lined up, mostly men 946 00:36:08,633 --> 00:36:11,035 were lined up here, all a line of men. 947 00:36:11,036 --> 00:36:12,736 Each one of them was sort of going in 948 00:36:12,737 --> 00:36:16,073 as we were passing by and you could hear a shot. 949 00:36:16,074 --> 00:36:19,343 And we were told by the men by the commander 950 00:36:19,344 --> 00:36:20,477 being shot in the neck. 951 00:36:20,478 --> 00:36:21,478 Could you hear it? 952 00:36:21,479 --> 00:36:23,380 You could hear the shot, yes. 953 00:36:23,381 --> 00:36:24,682 You could hear a shot. 954 00:36:24,683 --> 00:36:26,483 Now, the other thing is she said, 955 00:36:26,484 --> 00:36:29,999 "you mustn't look around. You walk and you keep your head down." 956 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:30,221 "You mustn't look around. You walk and you keep your head down." 957 00:36:30,222 --> 00:36:33,190 But we did see. So what did we see? 958 00:36:33,191 --> 00:36:38,028 We saw some men throwing in bodies into pits 959 00:36:38,029 --> 00:36:41,699 and smoke coming out and fire coming out of the pits, 960 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:43,033 and also some of the bodies 961 00:36:43,034 --> 00:36:47,371 that they couldn't burn in the ovens. 962 00:36:47,372 --> 00:36:49,106 They were bringing them in here and burning them in pits. 963 00:36:49,107 --> 00:36:52,242 And this is a pit there where you're seeing all this vegetation. 964 00:36:52,243 --> 00:36:55,612 And I actually found one pit some years ago 965 00:36:55,613 --> 00:36:57,381 and found human remains, 966 00:36:57,382 --> 00:36:59,249 and I think it was that pit over there. 967 00:36:59,250 --> 00:36:59,999 And I passed this about four or five times 968 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,352 and I passed this about four or five times 969 00:37:02,353 --> 00:37:05,055 within the eight months that I was working here. 970 00:37:05,056 --> 00:37:07,624 How did it make you feel when you passed? 971 00:37:07,625 --> 00:37:09,393 It was a horrific-- Horrific sight. 972 00:37:09,394 --> 00:37:13,097 And we didn't even want to look, but of course we did. 973 00:37:13,098 --> 00:37:14,364 You know, it was forbidden. 974 00:37:14,365 --> 00:37:18,102 But it was just horrific because you were just seeing 975 00:37:18,103 --> 00:37:21,538 bodies being burned and the fire coming out of the pits 976 00:37:21,539 --> 00:37:23,107 and smoke all over the place. 977 00:37:23,108 --> 00:37:24,675 There were several. We passed several pits. 978 00:37:24,676 --> 00:37:27,478 There was one here, there was another one down there. 979 00:37:27,479 --> 00:37:28,979 There were many, many pits here. 980 00:37:28,980 --> 00:37:29,999 But I recall that one particularly, 981 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,648 but I recall that one particularly, 982 00:37:31,649 --> 00:37:33,685 very close to the sauna. 983 00:37:39,157 --> 00:37:43,060 This is where people died, 984 00:37:43,061 --> 00:37:45,262 the killing part of Auschwitz. 985 00:37:45,263 --> 00:37:47,364 I know you can't see anything. 986 00:37:47,365 --> 00:37:50,067 Everything was burnt in that area 987 00:37:50,068 --> 00:37:53,004 to erase all traces of murder. 988 00:37:56,107 --> 00:37:59,109 In 1944, five gas chambers 989 00:37:59,110 --> 00:37:59,999 were working at full capacity. 990 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,512 Were working at full capacity. 991 00:38:01,513 --> 00:38:04,114 Kitty hart-moxon was placed in the kanada section 992 00:38:04,115 --> 00:38:05,749 at Auschwitz-birkenau, right alongside 993 00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:09,386 crematorium number four, 994 00:38:09,387 --> 00:38:13,290 where Jews were being gassed every day. 995 00:38:13,291 --> 00:38:15,192 Right at the back of the fence 996 00:38:15,193 --> 00:38:18,061 was the gas chamber and crematorium number four. 997 00:38:18,062 --> 00:38:20,597 And we had a direct view 998 00:38:20,598 --> 00:38:23,168 into that gas chamber. 999 00:38:24,102 --> 00:38:25,435 See this wood there? Yeah. 1000 00:38:25,436 --> 00:38:29,106 That's where groups of people were sitting, 1001 00:38:29,107 --> 00:38:29,999 small children running around. 1002 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,177 Small children running around. 1003 00:38:33,178 --> 00:38:36,314 They had no idea what was going to happen. 1004 00:38:37,649 --> 00:38:41,051 They were herded into the crematoria. 1005 00:38:41,052 --> 00:38:43,453 There was an undressing room. 1006 00:38:43,454 --> 00:38:46,223 And people were told, "remember where you hung your clothes 1007 00:38:46,224 --> 00:38:50,494 because you're gonna get it back." 1008 00:38:50,495 --> 00:38:53,997 We had no contact because we were behind the wire 1009 00:38:53,998 --> 00:38:55,632 and also, it was very dangerous. 1010 00:38:55,633 --> 00:38:57,634 You were not allowed to communicate. 1011 00:38:57,635 --> 00:38:59,002 It wouldn't have helped. 1012 00:38:59,003 --> 00:38:59,999 If we just tell these people 1013 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:00,238 if we just tell these people 1014 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:01,438 "well, you know, you're now going to die," 1015 00:39:01,439 --> 00:39:02,739 is that the help? It isn't. 1016 00:39:02,740 --> 00:39:05,076 We felt it's better they don't know. 1017 00:39:07,045 --> 00:39:10,080 And as they were herded into the gas chamber, 1018 00:39:10,081 --> 00:39:12,182 the gas chamber was sealed. 1019 00:39:12,183 --> 00:39:14,084 One of the ss personnel 1020 00:39:14,085 --> 00:39:16,053 would put on a gas mask 1021 00:39:16,054 --> 00:39:19,089 and he would climb up on a ladder, 1022 00:39:19,090 --> 00:39:20,657 with a tin in his hand 1023 00:39:20,658 --> 00:39:23,760 and he would throw in some powder. 1024 00:39:23,761 --> 00:39:25,996 That was gas 1025 00:39:25,997 --> 00:39:28,265 and then, all of a sudden, 1026 00:39:28,266 --> 00:39:29,999 you just heard the scream. 1027 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,040 You just heard the scream. 1028 00:39:32,604 --> 00:39:36,006 The crematorium gas chambers had huge thick walls. 1029 00:39:36,007 --> 00:39:37,341 You could hear people 1030 00:39:37,342 --> 00:39:40,010 actually suffocating there and screaming 1031 00:39:40,011 --> 00:39:41,645 and eventually, after 20 minutes, 1032 00:39:41,646 --> 00:39:43,648 it was quiet. 1033 00:39:47,185 --> 00:39:50,420 The sonderkommando worked in the gas chamber 1034 00:39:50,421 --> 00:39:53,323 reported that people climbed up 1035 00:39:53,324 --> 00:39:55,292 on top of each other 1036 00:39:55,293 --> 00:39:58,196 and they sort of were in a sculptural pyramid. 1037 00:40:00,131 --> 00:40:01,431 The gas was evacuated 1038 00:40:01,432 --> 00:40:04,534 and then they were taken to the ovens 1039 00:40:04,535 --> 00:40:06,236 and there was a dissecting table. 1040 00:40:06,237 --> 00:40:09,006 They opened them up to make sure 1041 00:40:09,007 --> 00:40:10,440 that people did not die 1042 00:40:10,441 --> 00:40:14,312 with something valuable inside themselves. 1043 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,148 What birkenau essentially did 1044 00:40:18,149 --> 00:40:21,418 was to reduce the human being 1045 00:40:21,419 --> 00:40:24,421 to consumable by product 1046 00:40:24,422 --> 00:40:27,557 of the killing process. 1047 00:40:27,558 --> 00:40:29,326 And the very next thing you saw 1048 00:40:29,327 --> 00:40:29,999 was the man with wheelbarrows taking ash 1049 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,263 was the man with wheelbarrows taking ash 1050 00:40:33,264 --> 00:40:35,500 and dumping it in the pond at the back. 1051 00:40:38,536 --> 00:40:41,305 And do you think I could actually believe it? 1052 00:40:41,306 --> 00:40:43,273 Did you and your friends talk about what you saw? 1053 00:40:43,274 --> 00:40:45,542 We tried not to talk about it. 1054 00:40:45,543 --> 00:40:47,611 We knew it was happening but, you know, 1055 00:40:47,612 --> 00:40:50,013 we decided, we mustn't talk about it. 1056 00:40:50,014 --> 00:40:52,449 Don't look, don't look. 1057 00:40:52,450 --> 00:40:53,650 We know it's going on. 1058 00:40:53,651 --> 00:40:56,354 But don't look at it. 1059 00:41:04,062 --> 00:41:06,063 Little did the Nazis know that for months, 1060 00:41:06,064 --> 00:41:07,464 Jewish prisoners that had been forced 1061 00:41:07,465 --> 00:41:09,032 to operate the crematorium 1062 00:41:09,033 --> 00:41:11,034 were planning an insurrection 1063 00:41:11,035 --> 00:41:13,670 on October 7, 1944. 1064 00:41:13,671 --> 00:41:17,307 Kitty was witness to the uprising that day. 1065 00:41:17,308 --> 00:41:20,044 There was just a loud noise. 1066 00:41:21,579 --> 00:41:24,514 And when this noise happened, we thought that was it. 1067 00:41:24,515 --> 00:41:26,717 My friends and I, we threw ourselves down 1068 00:41:26,718 --> 00:41:28,185 just like that. 1069 00:41:28,186 --> 00:41:29,999 We bow our heads, lie flat on the ground. 1070 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:30,321 We bow our heads, lie flat on the ground. 1071 00:41:30,322 --> 00:41:32,255 Armed resistance 1072 00:41:32,256 --> 00:41:35,325 was not a decision whether to live, 1073 00:41:35,326 --> 00:41:39,262 but most often, a decision how to die. 1074 00:41:39,263 --> 00:41:42,299 We do know that there were resistant movements. 1075 00:41:42,300 --> 00:41:44,401 The Polish had the resistant movement. 1076 00:41:44,402 --> 00:41:46,103 The Jews had the resistance movement. 1077 00:41:46,104 --> 00:41:49,006 But we didn't--never knew who these people were 1078 00:41:49,007 --> 00:41:52,210 because it was so incredibly dangerous. 1079 00:41:54,312 --> 00:41:55,979 We didn't know it was uprising 1080 00:41:55,980 --> 00:41:57,481 until we saw the man 1081 00:41:57,482 --> 00:41:59,016 actually come over. 1082 00:41:59,017 --> 00:41:59,999 They seemed to have cut part of the fencing 1083 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:00,751 they seemed to have cut part of the fencing 1084 00:42:00,752 --> 00:42:03,020 because that was electrified fence. 1085 00:42:03,021 --> 00:42:04,588 So they seemed to have cut the fence 1086 00:42:04,589 --> 00:42:06,623 and run over and they tried to escape somewhere-- 1087 00:42:06,624 --> 00:42:08,358 Yeah, I don't know where but they tried. 1088 00:42:08,359 --> 00:42:10,160 They were running all over. 1089 00:42:10,161 --> 00:42:12,029 And we were just lying down, spread-eagled, 1090 00:42:12,030 --> 00:42:15,566 because that was the safest thing to do. 1091 00:42:17,168 --> 00:42:18,568 There was a general shootout, 1092 00:42:18,569 --> 00:42:21,038 they came in on motorcycles with machine guns 1093 00:42:21,039 --> 00:42:25,042 and I think they got most of the men. 1094 00:42:25,043 --> 00:42:27,544 Kitty was also a witness to the fact that Jews 1095 00:42:27,545 --> 00:42:29,713 did not go like lambs to the slaughter. 1096 00:42:29,714 --> 00:42:30,000 But they were thinking about what they could do 1097 00:42:30,001 --> 00:42:31,681 but they were thinking about what they could do 1098 00:42:31,682 --> 00:42:33,116 to overcome the Nazis, 1099 00:42:33,117 --> 00:42:35,485 and with absolutely no chance, whatsoever, 1100 00:42:35,486 --> 00:42:37,287 to get a hold of the explosives 1101 00:42:37,288 --> 00:42:41,691 to be able to overcome the tight strictures on them. 1102 00:42:41,692 --> 00:42:43,694 These Jewish people did that. 1103 00:42:45,029 --> 00:42:46,329 Following uprising 1104 00:42:46,330 --> 00:42:47,764 was a huge was inquiry 1105 00:42:47,765 --> 00:42:51,368 like a whole roll call with an inquiry. 1106 00:42:51,369 --> 00:42:54,104 And during that inquiry, 1107 00:42:54,105 --> 00:42:55,739 one of the ss women came 1108 00:42:55,740 --> 00:42:58,108 and called my number, 1109 00:42:58,109 --> 00:42:59,999 39934, 1110 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:00,445 39934, 1111 00:43:00,446 --> 00:43:03,180 and I was transferred back to the main camp 1112 00:43:03,181 --> 00:43:05,282 and I had no idea why. 1113 00:43:05,283 --> 00:43:07,284 I found out later, it was my mother 1114 00:43:07,285 --> 00:43:09,986 who managed to speak to one of the commandants 1115 00:43:09,987 --> 00:43:13,423 and told him I've been working eight months there 1116 00:43:13,424 --> 00:43:15,425 and that she was being evacuated 1117 00:43:15,426 --> 00:43:17,260 and asked him if I could be evacuated, 1118 00:43:17,261 --> 00:43:18,462 and that's what happened. 1119 00:43:18,463 --> 00:43:21,398 So why do you think that he let you go? 1120 00:43:21,399 --> 00:43:22,766 We don't know. We don't know. 1121 00:43:22,767 --> 00:43:25,268 I think my mother spoke this perfect German 1122 00:43:25,269 --> 00:43:28,271 and she didn't beg, she didn't crawl, 1123 00:43:28,272 --> 00:43:29,999 she just got up there and spoke, 1124 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:30,374 she just got up there and spoke, 1125 00:43:30,375 --> 00:43:33,376 asked to speak to him in a proper manner. 1126 00:43:33,377 --> 00:43:35,045 And I think he took it on board 1127 00:43:35,046 --> 00:43:36,580 and then uncalled my number. 1128 00:43:36,581 --> 00:43:39,416 Well, I was transferred to the main camp. 1129 00:43:39,417 --> 00:43:41,585 We were on this list to be evacuated 1130 00:43:41,586 --> 00:43:43,687 and my mother looked around and she says, 1131 00:43:43,688 --> 00:43:46,523 "oh, my goodness. We are all with these functionary prisoners, 1132 00:43:46,524 --> 00:43:48,458 I wonder if they'll kill us." 1133 00:43:48,459 --> 00:43:51,294 And we were put into a cattle truck. 1134 00:43:51,295 --> 00:43:54,164 And my mother made a speech. 1135 00:43:54,165 --> 00:43:57,334 "Just remember, we are leaving here. 1136 00:43:57,335 --> 00:43:59,999 "We are all equal from now on. 1137 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:00,238 "We are all equal from now on. 1138 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,572 "We no longer have your functions. 1139 00:44:02,573 --> 00:44:06,409 "And remember, we may need one another's help. 1140 00:44:06,410 --> 00:44:09,312 "So from now on, 1141 00:44:09,313 --> 00:44:11,581 you're all going to be friends." 1142 00:44:11,582 --> 00:44:13,618 And that's what happened. 1143 00:44:16,087 --> 00:44:18,155 After leaving Auschwitz-birkenau 1144 00:44:18,156 --> 00:44:20,724 in November 1944, 1145 00:44:20,725 --> 00:44:24,361 kitty and her mother went through further six camps 1146 00:44:24,362 --> 00:44:26,229 and several death marches 1147 00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:27,697 before finally being liberated 1148 00:44:27,698 --> 00:44:29,499 in salzwedel, Germany. 1149 00:44:29,500 --> 00:44:30,000 April 14th, 1945. 1150 00:44:30,001 --> 00:44:33,503 April 14th, 1945. 1151 00:44:33,504 --> 00:44:39,442 Liberation was at best bittersweet. 1152 00:44:39,443 --> 00:44:42,078 It meant that for the first time, 1153 00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:45,482 they had to confront loss, 1154 00:44:45,483 --> 00:44:47,717 loss of parents, 1155 00:44:47,718 --> 00:44:49,986 loss of spouses, 1156 00:44:49,987 --> 00:44:52,589 loss of children, 1157 00:44:52,590 --> 00:44:54,090 loss of entire communities, 1158 00:44:54,091 --> 00:44:55,659 loss of entire worlds. 1159 00:44:55,660 --> 00:44:59,129 And for years they had guarded themselves 1160 00:44:59,130 --> 00:44:59,999 from feeling anything 1161 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:00,730 from feeling anything 1162 00:45:00,731 --> 00:45:03,533 and once they felt, 1163 00:45:03,534 --> 00:45:08,205 the feeling of vacuum of emptiness 1164 00:45:08,206 --> 00:45:10,675 sometimes shattered them. 1165 00:45:13,010 --> 00:45:15,712 We had tried not be emotional about anything. 1166 00:45:15,713 --> 00:45:17,981 If you did, your emotions would just take over 1167 00:45:17,982 --> 00:45:19,984 and you couldn't go on. 1168 00:45:21,586 --> 00:45:24,321 That a civilized nation 1169 00:45:24,322 --> 00:45:26,156 would take people on a train, 1170 00:45:26,157 --> 00:45:28,358 bring them to gassing, annihilate them, 1171 00:45:28,359 --> 00:45:29,999 confiscate and recycle the elements of their body 1172 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,628 confiscate and recycle the elements of their body 1173 00:45:31,629 --> 00:45:33,230 and do that systematically, 1174 00:45:33,231 --> 00:45:35,198 day in and day out. 1175 00:45:35,199 --> 00:45:36,233 It's inconceivable. 1176 00:45:36,234 --> 00:45:38,236 How could this happen? 1177 00:45:39,503 --> 00:45:41,738 I felt very ashamed at the world 1178 00:45:41,739 --> 00:45:43,340 and very--just upset 1179 00:45:43,341 --> 00:45:47,510 that this could ever take place. 1180 00:45:47,511 --> 00:45:50,380 Some people see it as just a time in history. 1181 00:45:50,381 --> 00:45:51,281 But they don't understand 1182 00:45:51,282 --> 00:45:53,184 how it relates to us today. 1183 00:45:56,153 --> 00:45:58,421 We are the ultimate proof 1184 00:45:58,422 --> 00:45:59,999 of her survival. 1185 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,157 Of her survival. 1186 00:46:01,158 --> 00:46:05,228 If she hadn't found the hope to keep on going, 1187 00:46:05,229 --> 00:46:06,631 I wouldn't be sitting here. 1188 00:46:08,199 --> 00:46:10,267 Now, what I want to show you 1189 00:46:10,268 --> 00:46:12,736 is what's this water. 1190 00:46:12,737 --> 00:46:16,172 It's incredibly important to tell you about this water. 1191 00:46:16,173 --> 00:46:19,342 Women, men, children, old, 1192 00:46:19,343 --> 00:46:21,611 that's a final resting place. 1193 00:46:21,612 --> 00:46:24,148 That's a cemetery. 1194 00:46:33,024 --> 00:46:35,759 Kitty hart-moxon is saying "I was here. 1195 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,594 "This is what they did to me. 1196 00:46:37,595 --> 00:46:39,129 "This is how it was set up. 1197 00:46:39,130 --> 00:46:42,999 But I prevailed." 1198 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,101 There are people that simply don't believe 1199 00:46:45,102 --> 00:46:47,003 that this place existed. 1200 00:46:47,004 --> 00:46:48,571 We know it happened to the Jews 1201 00:46:48,572 --> 00:46:51,174 but the Jews weren't the first then they weren't the last. 1202 00:46:51,175 --> 00:46:52,710 So who's going to be next? 87845

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