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[man vocalizing]
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♪ Ah ♪
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♪ Ooh, ooh ♪
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♪ Do, do ♪
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[plucking strings]
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♪ I'm watching out of my ear ♪
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♪ When the fog goes out ♪
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♪ I am like a river's ear ♪
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♪ Hearing but not understanding ♪
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♪ Seeing the clouds, but not the sky ♪
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[funk music]
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♪ I get excited ♪
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♪ You get excited ♪
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♪ I get excited ♪
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[man] The things that I likeseem to be so different.
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I don't know. They don't-
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They're not the things
that everybody likes.
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But, you know, the records you listen to
when you're small,
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I think they have a big effect on you.
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If you listen to Arthur's music,
and you're not familiar with it,
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then you think, "Well, how could one
person work in all these different ways?"
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Not many people allow themselves
the full extent of their complexity.
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As a scientist,
I find it very interesting.
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I'm unplugging the hotline.
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I'm set.
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[vocalizing]
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[man] He made some really remarkable,very individual music,
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which was, I guess, too remarkable
and too individual for its time.
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[vocalizing]
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♪ Look to the moon ♪
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♪ And back to the tree ♪
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♪ You can see us go merrily ♪
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♪ And you can too ♪
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♪ You can see us go merrily ♪
35
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[country music]
36
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[man singing]
? I close my eyes?
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♪ And listen ♪
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♪ To hear the corn come out ♪
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♪ Don't ya hear the stars ♪
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♪ They glisten ♪
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♪ As we go in and out ♪
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♪ Down where the trees grow together ♪
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♪ And the western path comes to an end ♪
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♪ See the sign, it says, "clear weather" ♪
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♪ I'll meet you tonight, my friend ♪
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♪ Will the corn be growing
A little tonight? ♪
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♪ As I wait in the fields for you ♪
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♪ Who knows what grows
In the morning light ♪
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♪ When we can feel the watery doom? ♪
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Charles Arthur, Junior. I'm the senior.
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People used to say,
"Oh, there's little Chucky."
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And I think that bothered him.
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And so he changed his name to Arthur.
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[slide projector whirring]
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[changing slides]
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[chuckling]
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Bet he was, what, five years old here?
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That was a heavy dog too,
and he was carrying that animal.
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Now what's this bird doing in that cage?
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00:05:52,269 --> 00:05:56,315
That was Charlie. His face was changing
and his nose was kind of big
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for his face, going through that stage.
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- That was in junior high here.
- Uh-huh.
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00:06:01,278 --> 00:06:03,697
That was just before it hit the fan.
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We tried to do whatever good parents
are supposed to do.
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[Russell]
? The air is sweet and?
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We were a little more experimental
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and interested
in different things and new things.
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Something that might
strike our ear or our eye.
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♪ I know the sky is ready ♪
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[Emily] He went through a magic period,was always putting on magic shows.
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[Chuck] And he didn't seem to haveto have an audience.
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- [chuckles]
- ? Will the corn be growing?
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To be in the band, you had to wait
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until the middle of the semester,
in 5th grade,
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but you could be in the orchestra
at the beginning of the school year.
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And so he didn't want to wait.
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So he decided he'd be in the orchestra.
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I played the cello at the time,
and so he-he chose the cello.
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[birds twittering]
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[Chuck] I think the kids made fun of him.
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I know they did.
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'Cause he was a different sort of a kid.
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And, uh, he was quiet,
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and he was thinking
about different things.
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You know,
he didn't go out and play marbles
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and, you know,
he didn't do things like that.
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He had-
He was into different things than that.
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- [Emily] He had a severe case of acne.
- [Chuck] Yeah.
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That's very tough on a teenager.
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[Chuck] 'Cause even thoughhe was the kind of a kid
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that didn't act like he cared much
about how he looked, he really did.
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- Oh, he did. He-He really did.
- Really did.
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[Emily] He was a big reader.
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He'd go to the library, and
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he'd have all different kinds of things
that he'd bring home
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that, uh, we didn't have.
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Say, some things of John Cage.
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I think he was reading things
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that he really wasn't
emotionally old enough to handle,
100
00:08:08,030 --> 00:08:09,990
like Timothy Leary.
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The rascal.
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[Emily] Drugs was, you know, it was-
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[Chuck] Just coming in.
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[Emily] No one knew what pot was,really, around here.
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[Chuck] I went back to that bedroom,opened the third drawer down.
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There was a pipe.
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Paraphernalia kind of stuff for marijuana,
I think.
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I found that, and-
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00:08:35,390 --> 00:08:37,351
You know,
if you were caught with that stuff,
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they'd almost cuff you and take you in,
you know?
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It made Chuck mad, and, uh-
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I picked him up and bounced him
a couple times on the floor.
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And, uh, he ran away.
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[Russell] How are you?
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I'm sitting goggle-faced
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in front of a microphone
of a cassette player
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wondering under what conditions
you're going to be
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when you hear this, when I send it to you.
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[Emily] So, it must have been around '67.
120
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Some friend of his went to San Francisco.
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They decided that
they'd go to San Francisco.
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- You know, that was the big deal.
- [Chuck] Hanging out on the street corner.
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[Emily] In the Haight Ashbury district.You know, all that business.
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[Chuck] We really didn't knowwhat kind of a place it was at the time.
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I'd been there during World War II.
126
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You read about it, though, Chuck.
127
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I know. You read about it,
128
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but that doesn't necessarily mean
what it is.
129
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It was a hippie drug scene.
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We thought the worst, of course.
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[man]
I met Arthur in a park, 1970 or so, '71.
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He was wearing a strange
composite Buddhist uniform,
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semi-military, semi-Mongolian,
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00:10:15,699 --> 00:10:19,494
under the auspices of a, uh, strange
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Mongolian Buddhist teacher,
Reverend Warwick.
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And Warwick ran a commune house
in San Francisco.
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And there were a group of people
in a sense hypnotized by this guru,
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00:10:35,594 --> 00:10:37,804
whom I always suspected
of being a charlatan.
139
00:10:38,972 --> 00:10:40,974
Uh, but, on the other hand,
he was very strict,
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and there was a lot of meditation.
141
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And apparently
he would, uh, banish Arthur to the closet
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to practice cello
for hours and days on end.
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So, apparently that's
where Arthur sharpened his ax.
144
00:10:55,739 --> 00:10:57,449
I had a sort of crush on Arthur.
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There was something that he exuded
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that was both-
both delicate and exquisite-minded
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and youthful,
and, at the same time, oddly reticent.
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It was 1971.
We recorded a number of mantras.
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And Arthur was so quick
and sympathetic as a cellist
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that he could play absolute unison
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with anything that I was singing
after he heard it once or twice.
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[Emily]
He was getting more and more and more
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into music and that maybe didn't sit well
with the commune group,
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00:11:38,407 --> 00:11:41,493
because he was not able to do all
the chores he was supposed to do there.
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The cello was supposed
to be part of the commune,
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and he had to give up his cello.
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- [Chuck] No ownership.
- [Emily] The ownership of it.
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He was all music. He was just-
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There's no question about it. He just was-
That's all he wanted to do.
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[Chuck] I called him one day and I said,
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"Charlie, do you ever have the idea
you'd like to come back to Oskaloosa
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00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:07,436
and go into
the insurance business with me?"
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[chuckles]
It didn't take him long to say, "No."
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He said, "I don't think I'll ever come
back to the prairies." [chuckles]
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[rock music]
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[man] I know these very nice girlsfrom where I come from.
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But they get tough to talk to.
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I can't understand the way they do.
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00:12:27,873 --> 00:12:31,793
I can't understand the way they act.
I can't understand anything.
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♪ They cracked
Oh, I'm sad, but I won't ♪
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[man] Spring of 1974,one of last concerts of the Modern Lovers.
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Somehow it came to Arthur's attention.
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And we were already in the process
of almost breaking up.
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He showed up after the concert
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and introduced himself.
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And said, you know, he liked the music.
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Said he wanted to meet me,
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or he said he wanted to get together
with me and play songs for me.
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So he came up to Cambridge,
where I was still living, I think.
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00:13:02,365 --> 00:13:05,243
I don't know, a couple weeks after that,
with his guitar
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00:13:05,327 --> 00:13:08,163
and started just playing
these songs that he had.
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00:13:08,246 --> 00:13:10,707
You know, it was sort of folky songs,
183
00:13:10,791 --> 00:13:14,294
but he already showed
his kind of avant garde background
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00:13:14,377 --> 00:13:19,049
in the sense that the chords were often
really complicated, really sophisticated.
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He was funny because he was very
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00:13:23,470 --> 00:13:25,514
awkward in a certain way, and very shy,
187
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but at the same time,
he was very insistent.
188
00:13:29,434 --> 00:13:34,815
And he thought that I had some rock
secrets or something that he didn't have.
189
00:13:34,898 --> 00:13:36,399
I mean, Arthur was like that.
190
00:13:36,483 --> 00:13:37,943
He really would go find
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00:13:38,026 --> 00:13:42,030
what he thought he needed
to complete his music.
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00:13:42,113 --> 00:13:43,824
[folk music]
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♪ You did it yourself
It keeps you down ♪
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00:13:46,993 --> 00:13:50,497
♪ You did it yourself
Your move is their move ♪
195
00:13:50,580 --> 00:13:53,834
♪ You did it yourself
It keeps you down ♪
196
00:13:53,917 --> 00:13:57,212
♪ Did it yourself
Your move is their move ♪
197
00:13:59,339 --> 00:14:01,341
The songs that he played when we first met
198
00:14:01,424 --> 00:14:04,553
were-
a lot of them were about his childhood.
199
00:14:04,636 --> 00:14:07,764
He's got one called,
"My Sister Knows the Saddest People."
200
00:14:08,598 --> 00:14:10,183
And another one about,
201
00:14:10,976 --> 00:14:13,603
"I felt so sad, I treated everybody bad."
202
00:14:13,687 --> 00:14:15,272
It's about him and his-
203
00:14:15,355 --> 00:14:19,359
probably his elementary
or junior high school days.
204
00:14:19,442 --> 00:14:22,487
There's a lot of scenes
which are really clearly from Iowa.
205
00:14:23,613 --> 00:14:26,449
♪ Last night, the movie, oh ♪
206
00:14:26,533 --> 00:14:28,910
♪ Said a thing to me ♪
207
00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:33,373
♪ I understood all of it very well ♪
208
00:14:33,456 --> 00:14:35,750
♪ I didn't like the ending though ♪
209
00:14:37,210 --> 00:14:40,964
♪ Maybe I'm crazy
But it just seemed tacked on ♪
210
00:14:42,299 --> 00:14:44,968
♪ I was afraid at the end ♪
211
00:14:45,051 --> 00:14:46,803
♪ That I might be crazy ♪
212
00:14:46,887 --> 00:14:48,555
♪ But I didn't know ♪
213
00:14:48,638 --> 00:14:52,726
♪ What the whole story
Was before it ended ♪
214
00:14:55,729 --> 00:15:01,151
I don't know. There's some transcendent
magic of a kind of beautiful pop sound,
215
00:15:01,234 --> 00:15:03,987
and that's essentially
what we both agreed on,
216
00:15:04,529 --> 00:15:08,992
and one of the things behind deciding to
form this group The Flying Hearts.
217
00:15:10,744 --> 00:15:13,413
It was in the middle
of sort of the beginning of the punk era,
218
00:15:13,496 --> 00:15:17,042
and our sound was sort of
totally the other end of the spectrum.
219
00:15:17,125 --> 00:15:18,376
[pop music]
220
00:15:18,460 --> 00:15:21,963
♪ Hey, there's a letter for you ♪
221
00:15:22,047 --> 00:15:25,091
♪ Downstairs, can I read it too? ♪
222
00:15:25,634 --> 00:15:28,678
♪ Hey, there's a letter for you ♪
223
00:15:28,762 --> 00:15:32,223
♪ Downstairs on the table ♪
224
00:15:32,307 --> 00:15:38,021
I remember him being amazed
by how Johnny Ramone played guitar,
225
00:15:38,104 --> 00:15:40,440
and he was certainly fascinated
by the Rolling Stones.
226
00:15:40,523 --> 00:15:42,150
He was fascinated by Abba.
227
00:15:42,984 --> 00:15:44,986
And the Talking Heads, when he saw them,
228
00:15:45,070 --> 00:15:46,571
he realized that they
were on to something.
229
00:15:46,655 --> 00:15:49,240
[country music]
230
00:15:49,324 --> 00:15:53,286
♪ Pledging their love to the ground ♪
231
00:15:53,370 --> 00:15:56,539
He had this vision
of transforming them with his cello.
232
00:15:56,623 --> 00:16:02,212
And he did play cello
on a version of "Psycho Killer."
233
00:16:02,295 --> 00:16:04,464
And it wasn't entirely successful.
234
00:16:05,048 --> 00:16:07,884
I had a lot to do with getting him
into that situation,
235
00:16:07,968 --> 00:16:09,886
then wondering whether
it wasn't a mistake.
236
00:16:09,970 --> 00:16:13,431
♪ Nowhere to go, but I'll find ♪
237
00:16:17,644 --> 00:16:19,062
One more time.
238
00:16:19,145 --> 00:16:20,438
[man] The first time I saw Arthur,
239
00:16:20,522 --> 00:16:24,192
Allen took me to see him
do a one-man concert on the Bowery.
240
00:16:24,275 --> 00:16:28,822
Allen said, "You've got to see this guy
because he's, like, this poet who sings.
241
00:16:28,905 --> 00:16:31,741
He's like William Carlos Williams,
only he sings."
242
00:16:31,825 --> 00:16:35,662
And so
Allen was already, like, his biggest fan.
243
00:16:39,457 --> 00:16:40,500
He looked like a farm boy.
244
00:16:40,583 --> 00:16:42,919
He looked like
he'd just stepped off a tractor.
245
00:16:46,006 --> 00:16:47,966
And Arthur, at that point, was
246
00:16:48,049 --> 00:16:50,885
in the process of turning
from straight to queer,
247
00:16:50,969 --> 00:16:53,263
which, of course,
Allen found very exciting,
248
00:16:53,346 --> 00:16:56,266
the idea of watching this process.
249
00:16:58,184 --> 00:17:01,479
When he was living
at 437 East 12th Street,
250
00:17:01,563 --> 00:17:06,693
the same apartment that myself
and many other artists, like Richard Hell,
251
00:17:06,776 --> 00:17:11,031
and poets, John Godfrey,
also live in that same building,
252
00:17:11,114 --> 00:17:13,867
so it's like an artistic building.
253
00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:16,703
So, a lot of the people
in the building knew Arthur
254
00:17:16,786 --> 00:17:20,457
as a part of a community
within that apartment house.
255
00:17:20,540 --> 00:17:24,502
He'd come downstairs to give me lyrics
or samples of lyrics,
256
00:17:24,586 --> 00:17:26,796
and ask my-as a poet, ask my opinion.
257
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,467
And we had a constant fight
over whether he was being
258
00:17:30,550 --> 00:17:34,429
too general, too abstract, too elusive.
259
00:17:34,512 --> 00:17:40,602
And his ambition seemed to be
to write popular music,
260
00:17:40,685 --> 00:17:43,146
or bubble gum music,
but Buddhist bubble gum.
261
00:17:47,233 --> 00:17:49,819
[Hall] Arthur was Allen's music teacher.
262
00:17:51,237 --> 00:17:52,822
Most of the songs that Allen wrote
263
00:17:52,906 --> 00:17:57,118
were based on forms
that Arthur had taught to him.
264
00:18:01,581 --> 00:18:04,334
[Ginsberg] A young
man sits on the bridge...
265
00:18:05,168 --> 00:18:06,503
after nightfall...
266
00:18:08,004 --> 00:18:11,132
and looks across
the Hudson River to New Jersey.
267
00:18:12,842 --> 00:18:14,928
He wonders about life...
268
00:18:15,929 --> 00:18:19,182
and he wonders if he'll ever get old.
269
00:18:20,016 --> 00:18:22,519
He sees the lights.
270
00:18:22,602 --> 00:18:25,313
He wonders
if they are talking to each other...
271
00:18:26,606 --> 00:18:30,860
and he wonders if they are talking to him.
272
00:18:31,861 --> 00:18:35,365
And he asks if they are.
273
00:18:36,324 --> 00:18:40,912
[Russell]
? My mind settles down?
274
00:18:40,995 --> 00:18:45,458
♪ On those lights from New Jersey ♪
275
00:18:45,875 --> 00:18:50,463
♪ Why I chose New Jersey ♪
276
00:18:50,547 --> 00:18:54,050
♪ To look at, I don't know ♪
277
00:18:54,926 --> 00:18:59,013
♪ Well, one thing is sure ♪
278
00:18:59,097 --> 00:19:03,768
♪ I'm here to see those lights ♪
279
00:19:03,852 --> 00:19:08,148
♪ It doesn't matter, don't matter, no ♪
280
00:19:08,231 --> 00:19:13,736
♪ Where I come from or where I go ♪
281
00:19:17,657 --> 00:19:20,160
[trombone plays]
282
00:19:55,778 --> 00:19:59,032
[man] We must have metin some musical situation.
283
00:19:59,115 --> 00:20:03,036
Probably a rehearsal of somebody's,
but we were playing together.
284
00:20:04,954 --> 00:20:08,374
There was an attempt to create a big band,
which was sort of a collective,
285
00:20:08,458 --> 00:20:10,752
and people would bring compositions.
286
00:20:19,302 --> 00:20:21,846
Arthur had no trouble
assuming the role of leader.
287
00:20:21,930 --> 00:20:25,975
He had the materials. He had the brains.
288
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,942
One of the things
I first discovered in his group
289
00:20:34,025 --> 00:20:39,572
was the idea of bringing people together
who had very different backgrounds.
290
00:20:41,157 --> 00:20:45,745
What we're doing is engaging in a process,
and you're engaging with the instrument,
291
00:20:45,828 --> 00:20:48,248
but it also comes from a sense
292
00:20:48,331 --> 00:20:52,001
of looking at the person
more so than the instrument.
293
00:20:55,672 --> 00:20:58,132
It's not like he was seeking a-
294
00:20:58,216 --> 00:21:00,927
"I need someone to play
this trombone part."
295
00:21:01,010 --> 00:21:02,470
It was me.
296
00:21:02,553 --> 00:21:05,265
So, I think that
that's what a lot of us were after.
297
00:21:05,348 --> 00:21:10,520
Was to create these groupings of people
in which people can be themselves
298
00:21:10,603 --> 00:21:12,105
and do what they do best
299
00:21:12,188 --> 00:21:18,444
and create a, um-a whole that's...
larger than the sum of its parts.
300
00:21:22,865 --> 00:21:24,367
[man] Part of my generation
301
00:21:24,450 --> 00:21:27,495
that we were a generation of people
who were composers who performed.
302
00:21:27,578 --> 00:21:30,790
So he played.
He had an instrument. It was a cello.
303
00:21:30,873 --> 00:21:35,336
And, uh, he was one
of the more eccentric of our community.
304
00:21:37,797 --> 00:21:39,882
The Kitchen at that time
was on Broome Street.
305
00:21:39,966 --> 00:21:43,177
It was a center for dance,
video and music.
306
00:21:44,512 --> 00:21:46,889
But in those days, in the '70s,
307
00:21:46,973 --> 00:21:49,017
if you wanted to know
what was going on in The Kitchen,
308
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:51,269
you had to walk past the place
and look at the sign on the door.
309
00:21:51,352 --> 00:21:54,063
It was like a restaurant
that would just put up a notice.
310
00:21:55,898 --> 00:21:58,860
There was a lot
of spontaneous programming done that way.
311
00:21:58,943 --> 00:22:01,738
Arthur was very much able to do-
I mean, he attracted people.
312
00:22:01,821 --> 00:22:03,323
He was very open to other people's work.
313
00:22:03,406 --> 00:22:05,450
[audience clapping along]
314
00:22:19,213 --> 00:22:21,341
[music ends]
315
00:22:21,424 --> 00:22:23,301
[cheering]
316
00:22:23,384 --> 00:22:25,261
[Zummo] When I first met Arthur,
317
00:22:25,345 --> 00:22:27,764
he was the musical director
of The Kitchen.
318
00:22:27,847 --> 00:22:30,516
He seemed to have
a comprehensive awareness
319
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,479
of, you know, where he was situating
himself in terms of all kinds of music.
320
00:22:34,562 --> 00:22:37,148
He must-
He must have been a great listener.
321
00:22:37,899 --> 00:22:39,734
[Glass] I remember being there
322
00:22:39,817 --> 00:22:42,403
when John Cage was
doing his Thoreau piece.
323
00:22:42,487 --> 00:22:46,115
Where he took words and took them apart,
and they became just sounds.
324
00:22:46,199 --> 00:22:48,910
And listening to John read was like-
325
00:22:48,993 --> 00:22:51,120
It sounded like
he was growling and barking.
326
00:22:51,204 --> 00:22:54,707
He had gone beyond human language
into just sound.
327
00:22:55,958 --> 00:22:58,544
[man]
If you listen to sound in a certain way,
328
00:22:58,628 --> 00:23:00,880
then there's actually no big jump
329
00:23:01,631 --> 00:23:04,801
from listening to a certain kind
of country music
330
00:23:04,884 --> 00:23:07,136
and going from there to John Cage.
331
00:23:08,137 --> 00:23:10,848
Sound itself is the common factor.
332
00:23:10,932 --> 00:23:12,934
[vocalizing]
333
00:23:19,982 --> 00:23:22,402
In a way, all these different types
334
00:23:22,485 --> 00:23:26,030
of experimental music
were very contradictory, but somehow
335
00:23:26,114 --> 00:23:28,658
all these people made a scene together.
336
00:23:29,492 --> 00:23:33,913
A lot of people in that scene
had a very defined style.
337
00:23:33,996 --> 00:23:37,875
They had worked out
a signature as a composer.
338
00:23:38,459 --> 00:23:42,839
You know, in a way, Arthur was
much more free than any of these people.
339
00:23:44,841 --> 00:23:47,927
[Glass] He often did concerts alone,just with a cello.
340
00:23:48,010 --> 00:23:50,263
People who become an artist
on an instrument,
341
00:23:50,346 --> 00:23:53,808
the instrument becomes bent to their needs
342
00:23:53,891 --> 00:23:55,518
and their expression,
and that's what he did.
343
00:23:56,811 --> 00:24:04,610
♪ Eli, Eli, Eli ♪
344
00:24:04,694 --> 00:24:12,285
♪ Eli, Eli, Eli ♪
345
00:24:12,368 --> 00:24:17,290
♪ A simple dog with ears and nose ♪
346
00:24:17,373 --> 00:24:24,172
♪ Eli, Eli, Eli ♪
347
00:24:24,255 --> 00:24:30,178
♪ I don't know why nobody likes him ♪
348
00:24:30,261 --> 00:24:35,975
♪ There's some people
Trying to put him away ♪
349
00:24:36,058 --> 00:24:38,561
♪ When he comes up to them ♪
350
00:24:38,644 --> 00:24:44,400
♪ They always say, "Go away, go away ♪
351
00:24:44,484 --> 00:24:48,821
♪ Please take him home
Make him stay" ♪
352
00:24:48,905 --> 00:24:55,745
♪ Eli, Eli, Eli ♪
353
00:24:55,828 --> 00:25:02,502
♪ Eli, Eli, Eli ♪
354
00:25:03,085 --> 00:25:07,173
♪ But some people never are satisfied ♪
355
00:25:07,256 --> 00:25:15,181
♪ Eli, Eli, Eli ♪
356
00:25:15,264 --> 00:25:23,314
♪ Eli, Eli, Eli ♪
357
00:25:24,774 --> 00:25:28,110
[gentle pop music]
358
00:25:38,329 --> 00:25:40,540
[Brooks]
A totally different process that he used
359
00:25:40,623 --> 00:25:43,668
was in a piece called "Instrumentals."
360
00:25:48,548 --> 00:25:53,553
It was sort of a self-consciously
arbitrary conceptual process.
361
00:25:56,639 --> 00:25:59,892
[Zummo] The fragments of songsthat comprise "Instrumentals"
362
00:25:59,976 --> 00:26:03,729
were intricately composed little items.
363
00:26:03,813 --> 00:26:05,398
I think the title is telling.
364
00:26:05,481 --> 00:26:07,733
He called it "Instrumentals."
365
00:26:07,817 --> 00:26:09,902
Which is a play on pop music already
366
00:26:09,986 --> 00:26:14,991
because an instrumental is-
is a pop tune without vocals.
367
00:26:15,074 --> 00:26:18,786
Well, he always had
that kind of simple, playful style.
368
00:26:23,165 --> 00:26:26,419
[Brooks] What maybe was the most unusualabout what Arthur did
369
00:26:26,502 --> 00:26:30,631
was that melodic gift
that always came through.
370
00:26:32,258 --> 00:26:33,759
One of the ways in which Arthur
371
00:26:33,843 --> 00:26:37,638
was confronting the issue of popular
and serious music
372
00:26:37,722 --> 00:26:41,309
was to bring the Modern Lovers
to perform at The Kitchen
373
00:26:41,392 --> 00:26:45,146
in a so-called "art music" environment.
374
00:26:46,272 --> 00:26:51,277
[Glass] Many of us were interestedin the popularity of popular music.
375
00:26:52,236 --> 00:26:55,948
We were a generation of people
who were interested in playing
376
00:26:56,032 --> 00:26:59,493
in a contemporary language
and finding a real audience.
377
00:26:59,952 --> 00:27:03,456
Arthur felt in his bones
that he was destined
378
00:27:03,539 --> 00:27:05,708
to have a larger audience
than he had at that moment.
379
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:15,801
[man]
I was walking along St. Mark's Place,
380
00:27:15,885 --> 00:27:19,263
and I saw Arthur on the street,
and he was on the telephone.
381
00:27:19,347 --> 00:27:23,434
And something just drew me to who he was.
382
00:27:23,517 --> 00:27:25,478
We hadn't made eye contact or anything,
383
00:27:25,561 --> 00:27:29,148
but I was intrigued
by some guy on the telephone.
384
00:27:29,231 --> 00:27:31,901
[vocalizing]
385
00:27:39,533 --> 00:27:40,993
[Lee] Just being in the neighborhood,
386
00:27:41,077 --> 00:27:42,828
there was another time where I was walking
387
00:27:42,912 --> 00:27:45,748
by the Tisch building,
I think on Second A venue,
388
00:27:45,831 --> 00:27:48,751
and I saw Arthur walk into the building.
389
00:27:49,877 --> 00:27:53,130
And I remember walking into the building
but not knowing what to do
390
00:27:53,214 --> 00:27:55,007
after that, so I just walked out.
391
00:27:58,678 --> 00:28:02,056
The time when I finally met him,
I was coming home from Danceteria.
392
00:28:02,139 --> 00:28:04,350
And it was 2:00 in the morning,
and there he was
393
00:28:04,433 --> 00:28:06,394
in the Gem Spa buying an ice cream.
394
00:28:06,477 --> 00:28:09,188
And I just thought, "Now it's-
I just have to talk to this guy.
395
00:28:09,271 --> 00:28:12,692
I don't know if he's going to beat me up
or what's gonna happen."
396
00:28:14,193 --> 00:28:19,073
This idea that I was gay and he was gay,
never-at that time, didn't cross my mind.
397
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:22,493
So he called me, and then we
398
00:28:22,576 --> 00:28:25,746
got together and, you know,
that was how we met.
399
00:28:26,497 --> 00:28:29,792
♪ At the same time ♪
400
00:28:29,875 --> 00:28:34,380
♪ That they were letting go ♪
401
00:28:34,463 --> 00:28:40,302
♪ They weren't the same ♪
402
00:28:41,637 --> 00:28:46,475
♪ They weren't the same ♪
403
00:28:47,309 --> 00:28:51,689
♪ They weren't the same ♪
404
00:28:54,567 --> 00:28:56,068
I really liked the way he looked.
405
00:28:56,152 --> 00:29:00,364
It was funny, because he was always
self-conscious about his acne scars,
406
00:29:00,448 --> 00:29:02,950
which were-really just covered
his whole face really badly.
407
00:29:03,033 --> 00:29:07,204
But yet, it didn't stop me
from being attracted to him.
408
00:29:09,415 --> 00:29:11,417
So many people say,
"Oh, Arthur was strange"
409
00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:13,169
or "Arthur was hard to get to know",
410
00:29:13,252 --> 00:29:18,966
or he was so into his work that, you know,
people didn't know what to make of him.
411
00:29:19,550 --> 00:29:23,053
But yet, for me,
it felt very intimate to be with him.
412
00:29:23,137 --> 00:29:26,348
You know, he's the guy
I wanted to be sitting on the couch with,
413
00:29:26,432 --> 00:29:28,642
you know, just end of the day.
414
00:29:28,726 --> 00:29:30,770
The person you wanted to be next to,
you know,
415
00:29:30,853 --> 00:29:33,689
and that's how it felt for me with him.
416
00:29:34,523 --> 00:29:38,527
I just remember that, from the beginning,
they were so naturally a couple
417
00:29:38,611 --> 00:29:40,780
that you couldn't
imagine them being apart.
418
00:29:41,697 --> 00:29:45,034
Arthur couldn't believe
he was so lucky to have Tom.
419
00:29:45,618 --> 00:29:49,747
Tom made the whole thing possible
in terms of his support.
420
00:29:54,210 --> 00:29:57,630
[disco music]
421
00:30:13,062 --> 00:30:15,231
[Zummo] Disco happened.
422
00:30:15,314 --> 00:30:19,026
As soon as it was starting
in obscure studios, he was there.
423
00:30:20,194 --> 00:30:22,905
Arthur said he wanted
to make mass-market music.
424
00:30:22,988 --> 00:30:24,782
He wanted to experiment with that.
425
00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:27,827
[Lee] Kids were dancing
426
00:30:28,244 --> 00:30:32,414
and his quest was "Well, what makes them
get out on the dance floor?"
427
00:30:34,834 --> 00:30:39,421
[Toop] Arthur was beginning to releasestrange dance records that seemed...
428
00:30:40,548 --> 00:30:41,674
almost kind of African,
429
00:30:41,757 --> 00:30:44,510
and there were definitely
Indian influences in there.
430
00:30:44,593 --> 00:30:47,847
But at the same time,
he clearly also loved disco.
431
00:30:49,682 --> 00:30:52,476
[man] I met Arthur at The Loft.
432
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:59,275
The Loft was this place where
David Mancuso had this concept of having
433
00:30:59,358 --> 00:31:01,151
a non-profit party
434
00:31:01,235 --> 00:31:04,989
where he would bring people in,
you would pay a donation.
435
00:31:05,072 --> 00:31:10,160
There was a giant room,
which had a giant mirrored ball.
436
00:31:10,244 --> 00:31:14,498
There'd be free water, bowls of fruit,
a lot of drugs,
437
00:31:14,582 --> 00:31:17,626
where there was a sense of feeling safe-
438
00:31:18,168 --> 00:31:22,172
white gay, black gay, Spanish gay,
and some hippies.
439
00:31:23,132 --> 00:31:26,594
It was a party.
It was like a birthday party for kids.
440
00:31:27,636 --> 00:31:29,763
He had a mural of Spanky and Our Gang,
441
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:34,977
'cause that had to do with childhood,
being at a party and being friends.
442
00:31:35,060 --> 00:31:37,229
Arthur and I became friendly,
443
00:31:37,313 --> 00:31:40,357
and we would just talk music
and talk stuff at The Loft,
444
00:31:40,441 --> 00:31:42,651
while the party was going on.
445
00:31:42,735 --> 00:31:44,820
Arthur just said to me,
"What are you doing now?"
446
00:31:44,904 --> 00:31:46,447
I said, "You know, I'm working.
447
00:31:46,530 --> 00:31:49,074
I got another job and I'm living,
you know, around the-"
448
00:31:49,158 --> 00:31:52,578
He goes, "You wanna put a record out?"
And that was it. I just said, "Yup."
449
00:31:52,661 --> 00:31:56,707
I was in my apartment.
I lived in a sleeping bag.
450
00:31:56,790 --> 00:31:59,251
I didn't make a bed. It was a lot easier.
451
00:32:00,169 --> 00:32:02,713
James Brown's
"Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" came on.
452
00:32:02,796 --> 00:32:05,090
So, Arthur starts saying, you know,
we can call it
453
00:32:05,174 --> 00:32:07,134
Brown Bag Records and this and that.
454
00:32:07,217 --> 00:32:10,763
And when he said "Brown Bag Records,"
I said, "Well, that's interest-" I said-
455
00:32:10,846 --> 00:32:13,098
I said, "'Cause I'm into a sleeping bag."
456
00:32:13,182 --> 00:32:15,267
And Arthur went ballistic.
457
00:32:15,351 --> 00:32:18,687
He goes,
"That's it. Sleeping Bag Records."
458
00:32:18,771 --> 00:32:21,690
Arthur's thing was,
"Yeah. I got a new bag, man.
459
00:32:21,774 --> 00:32:24,526
My bag is sleeping.
I'm into a sleeping bag."
460
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,572
[man]
In the early '80s, I had just come off
461
00:32:28,656 --> 00:32:31,867
a couple of number-one records
with Chic and with Instant Funk.
462
00:32:31,951 --> 00:32:34,995
"I Got My Mind Made Up" was number one.
463
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:40,000
I remember when Arthur found out
that Lola and I were getting together.
464
00:32:40,084 --> 00:32:42,044
He was freaked out because
he did love James Brown.
465
00:32:42,127 --> 00:32:46,924
He really wanted to meet her,
and they hit it off in a very strange way.
466
00:32:47,841 --> 00:32:51,220
[Lola] I was back and forthon the road with James Brown.
467
00:32:51,303 --> 00:32:54,682
And, um, Bob was playing this music,
and all of a sudden,
468
00:32:54,765 --> 00:32:57,810
I'm hearing this funky organ playing.
469
00:32:57,893 --> 00:32:59,812
It was, like, funky music.
470
00:32:59,895 --> 00:33:03,023
And I'm, like,
"This stuff is hot. Who is this?"
471
00:33:03,107 --> 00:33:04,692
And he said, "Oh, this is Arthur."
472
00:33:04,775 --> 00:33:08,070
I said, "Not that little white boy?
That strange little white boy?"
473
00:33:08,153 --> 00:33:09,655
He said, "Yeah."
474
00:33:09,738 --> 00:33:12,366
He had to be the funkiest white boy
that I had ever met.
475
00:33:13,075 --> 00:33:15,119
So, he came in, and he told me the line.
476
00:33:15,202 --> 00:33:16,704
And he cranked the music up.
477
00:33:16,787 --> 00:33:18,664
And he said, "Okay. Let's try it."
478
00:33:18,747 --> 00:33:20,916
And I would go,
? Bang, a-bang, bang?
479
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,501
He said, "I want it crazier."
480
00:33:22,584 --> 00:33:24,086
And I'd go,
? Bang, a-bang, bang?
481
00:33:24,169 --> 00:33:25,671
And he'd go, "Crazier."
482
00:33:25,754 --> 00:33:27,798
♪ Bang, a-bang, bang, go bang-o ♪
483
00:33:27,881 --> 00:33:30,426
? Go bang, a-bang, bang, go bangin'?
[shriek]
484
00:33:30,509 --> 00:33:33,012
♪ Bang, a-bang, bang, go bang-o ♪
485
00:33:33,095 --> 00:33:35,347
? Go bang, bang, bang, go bangin'?
[shriek]
486
00:33:35,431 --> 00:33:37,307
♪ Bang, a-bang, bang, go bang-o ♪
487
00:33:37,391 --> 00:33:41,103
? Go bang, bang, bang, go bangin'?
[shriek]
488
00:33:46,275 --> 00:33:48,360
? Go bang, bang, bang, go bangin'?
[shriek]
489
00:33:48,444 --> 00:33:50,237
♪ Bang, a-bang, bang, go bang-o ♪
490
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,865
? Go bang, bang, bang, go bangin'?
[shriek]
491
00:33:52,948 --> 00:33:54,783
♪ Bang, a-bang, bang, go bang-o ♪
492
00:33:56,869 --> 00:33:59,455
[man]
? I wanna see all my friends at once?
493
00:33:59,538 --> 00:34:02,041
? Go bang, bang, bang, go bangin'?
[shriek]
494
00:34:02,124 --> 00:34:04,668
♪ Bang, a-bang, bang
Go bang-o ♪
495
00:34:04,752 --> 00:34:07,171
[Socolov]
It was probably 2:00 in the morning.
496
00:34:07,254 --> 00:34:12,718
Francois had just finished a ref
on the mix of "Go Bang."
497
00:34:12,801 --> 00:34:16,305
I came with that ref to the club.
498
00:34:16,388 --> 00:34:17,848
So I get brought in,
499
00:34:17,931 --> 00:34:22,603
like, uh, some dignitary
bringing special news, and David just
500
00:34:22,686 --> 00:34:24,480
took the record, the ref, from me.
501
00:34:24,563 --> 00:34:26,982
He took off what he was about to play.
502
00:34:27,066 --> 00:34:28,817
I just leaned against the wall.
503
00:34:28,901 --> 00:34:31,445
I could see that people were first, like,
listening to it
504
00:34:31,528 --> 00:34:34,031
and it was weird,
'cause they were trying to get into it,
505
00:34:34,114 --> 00:34:38,827
and then, all of a sudden,
they were going crazy for this record.
506
00:34:38,911 --> 00:34:42,998
And a guy walked up to me and he said,
"It's a great record."
507
00:34:43,082 --> 00:34:47,294
Of course Arthur walked up to me
and said, "I'm ruined. I'm ruined."
508
00:34:47,377 --> 00:34:49,713
I said, "What do you mean?"
He goes "I'm ruined."
509
00:34:49,797 --> 00:34:52,174
He goes, "Did you listen to the drums?"
510
00:34:52,257 --> 00:34:55,177
I looked at him.
He goes, "Francois did this on purpose."
511
00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:58,263
I said, "Arthur what the fuck
are you talking about?"
512
00:34:58,347 --> 00:34:59,932
He said, "The drums aren't strong enough.
513
00:35:00,015 --> 00:35:03,185
They're-They're a little muddy.
There should be more."
514
00:35:03,268 --> 00:35:05,437
I said,
"Arthur, you're out of your fucking mind.
515
00:35:05,521 --> 00:35:06,897
People are going crazy here."
516
00:35:08,357 --> 00:35:09,817
But he would say that,
517
00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:12,111
and then he would
sort of smile a minute later,
518
00:35:12,194 --> 00:35:14,279
and he goes, "Well, that's great."
519
00:35:15,614 --> 00:35:17,699
[Hall] Arthur lived in hippie communes,
520
00:35:17,783 --> 00:35:21,495
so that's like being in a commune
with everyone happy together.
521
00:35:24,873 --> 00:35:27,376
[dance music]
522
00:35:33,549 --> 00:35:36,468
[vocalizing]
523
00:35:36,552 --> 00:35:39,721
♪ That country I am swimming to ♪
524
00:35:39,805 --> 00:35:41,515
♪ 'Cause where you've been, I go ♪
525
00:35:41,598 --> 00:35:43,308
♪ That's where I always go ♪
526
00:35:43,392 --> 00:35:47,479
♪ I'm banging on your door
Up in the big, blue sky ♪
527
00:35:49,606 --> 00:35:53,235
♪ Up in the big, blue sky ♪
528
00:35:54,570 --> 00:35:56,113
[Hall] Well, he had these personae.
529
00:35:56,196 --> 00:35:57,823
So, he had the name Killer Whale.
530
00:35:57,906 --> 00:35:59,616
So, some people only knew him as that,
531
00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:01,952
and they didn't even know
who Killer Whale was.
532
00:36:02,035 --> 00:36:06,665
But some of the dance hits were done
under the name Dinosaur. Dinosaur I.
533
00:36:08,083 --> 00:36:12,796
For the public, Loose Joints is one person
and Indian Ocean is another person,
534
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,883
and those two people could make totally
different kinds of music.
535
00:36:16,758 --> 00:36:20,095
Arthur was a person who had all these
different pseudonyms.
536
00:36:20,179 --> 00:36:24,349
In one sense, it's a kind
of withdrawal from that celebrity process.
537
00:36:24,433 --> 00:36:26,810
But I think also
it can be a way of saying,
538
00:36:26,894 --> 00:36:29,354
well, every project expresses something
539
00:36:29,438 --> 00:36:32,357
slightly different
about me as a character.
540
00:36:33,692 --> 00:36:38,030
It accepts the kind of
fragmentation of the person.
541
00:36:39,615 --> 00:36:44,870
Arthur, in a way,
was not tied to any of these styles.
542
00:36:45,913 --> 00:36:48,707
Arthur was tied to Arthur.
543
00:36:55,130 --> 00:36:58,592
[Russell]
I stopped dancing in a social setting.
544
00:36:58,675 --> 00:37:00,761
Actually, I never started. I mean, I-
545
00:37:00,844 --> 00:37:03,138
It was kind of hard to go to a disco
546
00:37:03,222 --> 00:37:05,515
and kind of go out there
and start dancing.
547
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:09,603
It engenders a certain perception
of social interaction...
548
00:37:10,646 --> 00:37:12,981
that's pretty-pretty interesting to me.
549
00:37:13,065 --> 00:37:15,234
And I don't know
how interesting it is to other people.
550
00:37:15,317 --> 00:37:18,445
Judging from the failure
of certain records,
551
00:37:18,528 --> 00:37:20,322
it's not that interesting.
552
00:37:20,405 --> 00:37:22,783
But I-I think that some of those will be,
you know,
553
00:37:22,866 --> 00:37:25,827
the most interesting in years to come.
554
00:37:27,913 --> 00:37:31,500
[Socolov] When you have a commercial hit,a lot of money starts to come in,
555
00:37:31,583 --> 00:37:33,418
you want to start making money.
556
00:37:33,502 --> 00:37:37,631
And you want to start putting out records
that are similar successes.
557
00:37:38,090 --> 00:37:43,011
Arthur was making
a lot of esoteric records
558
00:37:43,095 --> 00:37:46,390
that still weren't even coming out,
559
00:37:46,473 --> 00:37:48,934
and Arthur was driving me crazy.
560
00:37:51,019 --> 00:37:53,146
[Toop] He had to keep on making music,
561
00:37:53,230 --> 00:37:56,775
but maybe finishing anything
was difficult for him.
562
00:37:57,901 --> 00:37:59,861
There was something slightly missing.
563
00:38:01,571 --> 00:38:05,492
Maybe Arthur was often more interested
in the process of making work.
564
00:38:06,410 --> 00:38:09,538
It seemed to be, you know, just his life.
565
00:38:11,748 --> 00:38:14,418
♪ Calling all kids, calling all kids ♪
566
00:38:15,961 --> 00:38:18,880
♪ Calling all kids, calling all kids ♪
567
00:38:20,424 --> 00:38:22,676
♪ Calling all kids, calling all kids ♪
568
00:38:23,677 --> 00:38:25,554
♪ Grown-ups are crazy ♪
569
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:30,392
[vocalizing]
570
00:38:33,770 --> 00:38:36,648
♪ I, I, I will wait ♪
571
00:38:36,732 --> 00:38:42,070
♪ Wait for the sun to kiss
Sun to kiss me ♪
572
00:38:42,154 --> 00:38:47,492
♪ I, I, I will wait
Wait for the sun to kiss ♪
573
00:38:47,576 --> 00:38:51,330
♪ Sun to kiss me ♪
574
00:38:51,413 --> 00:38:53,999
[Hall]
So, there wasn't really a question of
575
00:38:54,082 --> 00:38:56,501
that Arthur should or shouldn't be forced
576
00:38:56,585 --> 00:38:59,963
to be like a regular person,
because he just wasn't.
577
00:39:00,047 --> 00:39:02,758
He was going to write songs all day
no matter what.
578
00:39:28,116 --> 00:39:32,162
[Brooks] He was always working on music.He was always thinking about music.
579
00:39:32,245 --> 00:39:34,498
He was always writing music.
580
00:39:34,581 --> 00:39:36,166
That song "Wild Combination"-
581
00:39:36,249 --> 00:39:39,753
He probably worked on that for five years,
you know,
582
00:39:39,836 --> 00:39:44,091
changing the beat, changing his parts,
583
00:39:44,174 --> 00:39:47,052
doing different edits,
and he was never satisfied.
584
00:39:47,135 --> 00:39:49,346
Ultimately, you could say it was because
585
00:39:49,429 --> 00:39:53,266
he was after something
that was so difficult,
586
00:39:53,350 --> 00:39:57,396
but at the same time,
it was frustrating to work with him.
587
00:39:58,313 --> 00:40:01,858
There was the opportunity
through his relationship
588
00:40:01,942 --> 00:40:06,405
with, uh, the avant garde community
and the compositional community
589
00:40:06,488 --> 00:40:08,532
to work with Robert Wilson.
590
00:40:08,615 --> 00:40:13,245
[dissonant acoustic music]
591
00:40:17,749 --> 00:40:21,253
Robert Wilson had worked with Philip Glasson Einstein on the Beach,
592
00:40:21,336 --> 00:40:26,508
and that was Philip's introduction
into the consciousness of American music.
593
00:40:28,385 --> 00:40:30,720
When Arthur hooked up with Robert Wilson,
594
00:40:30,804 --> 00:40:33,014
it looked like
that might be his opportunity
595
00:40:33,098 --> 00:40:37,227
to follow in those same footstepswith the musical theater piece Medea.
596
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,897
You know,
it was a big theatrical production.
597
00:40:40,981 --> 00:40:44,234
It was also an incredible chance
for Arthur.
598
00:40:44,317 --> 00:40:46,611
Arthur-
First of all, he couldn't finish it,
599
00:40:46,695 --> 00:40:50,824
and then when he was finished with it,
he was forbidden to go to rehearsals.
600
00:40:50,907 --> 00:40:53,493
And he somehow went
and was in the building,
601
00:40:53,577 --> 00:40:57,664
and was, like, crawling around
in the rafters of the theater,
602
00:40:57,747 --> 00:41:01,084
watching the rehearsal
and getting crazy about it.
603
00:41:02,752 --> 00:41:04,296
Part of the problem was not finishing it,
604
00:41:04,379 --> 00:41:07,299
and part of the problem was
that he wanted to be there,
605
00:41:07,382 --> 00:41:09,926
making sure it was done
the way he wanted it to be done,
606
00:41:10,010 --> 00:41:11,428
and that didn't happen.
607
00:41:11,928 --> 00:41:14,973
It wasn't a fruitful working relationship.
608
00:41:15,056 --> 00:41:21,229
Arthur couldn't keep to schedules.
Arthur, um, couldn't take direction.
609
00:41:22,439 --> 00:41:26,318
Um-
And Robert got very frustrated with that.
610
00:41:26,401 --> 00:41:28,987
And they ended up doing
one performance with Arthur's music...
611
00:41:30,113 --> 00:41:32,824
and then Robert fired him.
612
00:41:37,454 --> 00:41:40,874
[Brooks] Later, he joined this bandthat I had called The Necessaries.
613
00:41:40,957 --> 00:41:43,960
He just constantly was bugging me about-
614
00:41:44,044 --> 00:41:45,670
He wanted to be part of the band,
615
00:41:45,754 --> 00:41:49,633
and then as soon as he was in the band,
he wanted to change the band.
616
00:41:49,716 --> 00:41:51,843
He wanted to take it apart.
617
00:41:51,927 --> 00:41:56,139
'Cause I believed so much, I guess,
in his musical ability
618
00:41:56,223 --> 00:41:58,016
that I'd always have the impulse to try
619
00:41:58,099 --> 00:42:01,061
to get him into any situation
that I knew about.
620
00:42:01,811 --> 00:42:04,731
And sometimes it was,
you know, total disaster.
621
00:42:05,941 --> 00:42:07,651
We were on the way to play this show-
622
00:42:07,734 --> 00:42:09,694
a pretty important show
in Washington, D.C.
623
00:42:09,778 --> 00:42:11,947
And right before the Holland Tunnel,
he just said,
624
00:42:12,030 --> 00:42:14,366
"I'm not coming to the show."
625
00:42:14,449 --> 00:42:16,535
And he took his cello
and got out of the van.
626
00:42:16,618 --> 00:42:18,745
I was trying to say,
"Arthur, what are you doing?"
627
00:42:18,828 --> 00:42:20,580
He said,
"No, no, it's better I don't come.
628
00:42:20,664 --> 00:42:23,124
I don't like the way the music's going."
629
00:42:26,002 --> 00:42:29,047
I remember I picked him up
and, like, threw him on the floor.
630
00:42:30,173 --> 00:42:34,469
I didn't hit him. I just went, "What the-"
631
00:42:34,553 --> 00:42:37,138
And I think a lot of people
got really angry at him.
632
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,101
So, he would be paranoid
in general about the business,
633
00:42:41,184 --> 00:42:44,271
that people were ripping off
his ideas in the dance music world.
634
00:42:44,354 --> 00:42:46,898
Sometimes he could call me up
at 2:00 in the morning
635
00:42:46,982 --> 00:42:50,277
and say, "You stole that line from me.
636
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,572
The line of the song that you sang to me
today that you're working on,
637
00:42:53,655 --> 00:42:55,615
I thought of that line first.
That's mine."
638
00:42:55,699 --> 00:43:00,245
In music, borrowing goes on all the time,
but Arthur would get obsessive about it.
639
00:43:00,996 --> 00:43:02,747
I remember one time he was convinced
640
00:43:02,831 --> 00:43:06,376
that the Rolling Stones
had been listening to his tapes
641
00:43:06,459 --> 00:43:09,045
and were using his ideas on their album.
642
00:43:10,338 --> 00:43:14,092
To see him go in
and make some great music,
643
00:43:14,175 --> 00:43:16,428
and then it's sort of, like,
floating away,
644
00:43:16,511 --> 00:43:19,764
you know, would-
would get us into conflict.
645
00:43:21,850 --> 00:43:27,480
I think Arthur deliberately
veered from commercial success.
646
00:43:30,692 --> 00:43:34,362
Although he was
very charismatic as a person,
647
00:43:34,446 --> 00:43:38,241
in his own way, he was also very much...
648
00:43:39,367 --> 00:43:41,578
not comfortable with the limelight.
649
00:43:44,539 --> 00:43:48,168
[Hall] Tom recognized that Arthurwas a genius from the beginning,
650
00:43:48,251 --> 00:43:53,214
and was totally, 100% supportive of him.
651
00:43:53,298 --> 00:43:55,925
Every day, like,
Arthur was also thinking of ways
652
00:43:56,009 --> 00:44:00,013
to write songs that would say,
"Thank you. I can't believe you like me."
653
00:44:02,599 --> 00:44:04,434
We both lived on 12th Street.
654
00:44:04,517 --> 00:44:08,730
His boyfriend would go to work
at a regular job, like a regular guy,
655
00:44:08,813 --> 00:44:11,066
and then, we were, like, the wives.
656
00:44:12,859 --> 00:44:15,028
I would go over to his place
in the morning,
657
00:44:15,111 --> 00:44:18,531
and we would go out and buy some grass
from the candy store.
658
00:44:18,615 --> 00:44:22,202
And we would walk around a lot
and check out guys together.
659
00:44:23,244 --> 00:44:25,914
He might be listening
to a new mix he had done.
660
00:44:30,502 --> 00:44:34,089
[Lee] I was working every dayat the silk-screen printing company.
661
00:44:34,172 --> 00:44:37,217
He wasn't working, but he
was working on his music all the time,
662
00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:39,969
a lot of which
he was doing at the apartment.
663
00:44:43,807 --> 00:44:47,352
What I saw in Arthur
was the kind of person who's an artist
664
00:44:47,435 --> 00:44:49,479
who really pursues it at all costs
665
00:44:49,562 --> 00:44:53,191
and doesn't worry
about the 9:00 to 5:00 job.
666
00:44:53,274 --> 00:44:56,444
I was totally enthralled by that.
667
00:44:56,528 --> 00:44:59,864
Here's somebody that's just doing
what they-what they're driven to do.
668
00:44:59,948 --> 00:45:05,036
[vocalizing]
669
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,706
♪ What you use to tell me ♪
670
00:45:07,789 --> 00:45:10,625
♪ What the answer is ♪
671
00:45:10,709 --> 00:45:14,963
♪ And the song
In the end die out naturally ♪
672
00:45:19,259 --> 00:45:20,719
[Lee] He had tons of equipment here
673
00:45:20,802 --> 00:45:23,430
with, you know, the early DAT machines,
but even before that,
674
00:45:23,513 --> 00:45:25,807
he always had a reel-to-reel
machine working.
675
00:45:25,890 --> 00:45:28,727
Effect boxes and the cello,
and experimenting
676
00:45:28,810 --> 00:45:32,272
with the sounds of his voice
and the echo on his voice.
677
00:45:35,608 --> 00:45:39,279
♪ What he says answers me ♪
678
00:45:40,530 --> 00:45:42,824
♪ Answers me, answers me ♪
679
00:45:42,907 --> 00:45:46,494
♪ What he does answers me ♪
680
00:45:48,163 --> 00:45:50,373
[Lee] I think some peoplewould see he's a workaholic
681
00:45:50,457 --> 00:45:53,460
in that he was the one
who pulled it together enough
682
00:45:53,543 --> 00:45:55,712
to get everybody to the recording studio.
683
00:45:56,337 --> 00:46:00,925
And then, when those friends moved away
or were involved in other projects,
684
00:46:01,009 --> 00:46:04,095
I think that's what drove Arthur
to work more and more by himself.
685
00:46:04,512 --> 00:46:09,267
And that's where the music that became
the World of Echo music got developed.
686
00:46:09,350 --> 00:46:12,520
♪ Answers me, answers me ♪
687
00:46:14,022 --> 00:46:17,358
♪ Answers me, answers me ♪
688
00:46:18,526 --> 00:46:21,696
♪ Answers me, answers me ♪
689
00:46:24,282 --> 00:46:30,163
[vocalizing]
690
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,213
♪ Words you used to tell me ♪
691
00:46:38,296 --> 00:46:41,049
♪ What the answer is ♪
692
00:46:41,132 --> 00:46:46,596
♪ And the song
In the end die out naturally ♪
693
00:46:46,679 --> 00:46:49,641
[Brooks] I remember when I was-first took tapes of his
694
00:46:49,724 --> 00:46:53,978
to people to play,
they didn't really get his voice.
695
00:46:54,646 --> 00:46:59,901
"It's too folky. It's not
assertive enough. It's too quiet."
696
00:46:59,984 --> 00:47:03,738
But to me, it was kind of the gentleness
and grace of his voice
697
00:47:03,822 --> 00:47:07,492
which is what makes it
so powerful and so beautiful.
698
00:47:07,575 --> 00:47:10,745
♪ Answers me, answers me ♪
699
00:47:10,829 --> 00:47:13,540
He was, like, writing a diary, basically,
for his boyfriend.
700
00:47:13,623 --> 00:47:15,917
He would often write
a couple of songs during the day
701
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,752
that he would play for his boyfriend
702
00:47:17,836 --> 00:47:20,547
when his boyfriend
came back home from work.
703
00:47:21,923 --> 00:47:25,009
♪ Answers me, answers me ♪
704
00:47:27,804 --> 00:47:30,265
[whirring]
705
00:47:33,309 --> 00:47:34,853
[Lee] I can clearly remember the day
706
00:47:34,936 --> 00:47:38,273
that I came in the apartment
and the blender was on.
707
00:47:38,356 --> 00:47:41,025
And I don't know
how long the blender had been on for.
708
00:47:41,109 --> 00:47:44,779
But Arthur was just very peacefully
sitting right here at his keyboard
709
00:47:44,863 --> 00:47:48,867
just playing music and recording music
710
00:47:48,950 --> 00:47:52,412
with this drone of the blender on.
711
00:47:52,495 --> 00:47:55,874
[vocalizing]
712
00:47:58,084 --> 00:48:03,548
He always liked that ambient noise
or background noise to his own music.
713
00:48:06,092 --> 00:48:10,138
Very early on,
he had decided to get this huge fish tank.
714
00:48:12,724 --> 00:48:18,479
So, he would have his keyboard set up
sometimes right in front of the fish tank.
715
00:48:18,563 --> 00:48:20,690
I remember he really liked
the sound of the water.
716
00:48:20,773 --> 00:48:23,067
Sometimes he would let
the water down really low
717
00:48:23,151 --> 00:48:24,986
so that the filter-as it filtered in,
718
00:48:25,069 --> 00:48:27,488
would have that gurgling sound
like a water fountain.
719
00:48:27,572 --> 00:48:29,782
[gurgling]
720
00:48:29,866 --> 00:48:32,201
Around that time-
That was, like, the mid '80s, say-
721
00:48:32,285 --> 00:48:33,870
He was also jogging.
722
00:48:33,953 --> 00:48:36,915
Once Walkmans came out,
he would always have one.
723
00:48:36,998 --> 00:48:39,959
Jogging with his Walkman
across to the West Side.
724
00:48:40,043 --> 00:48:42,128
It was just something
that he did all the time.
725
00:48:43,087 --> 00:48:47,008
He would walk down along the Hudson River
and go to the Staten Island Ferry
726
00:48:47,091 --> 00:48:50,678
just to be out on the water more-
even more than just watching the water.
727
00:48:50,762 --> 00:48:54,265
And I think it gave him
that drone background.
728
00:49:00,021 --> 00:49:04,275
[vocalizing]
729
00:49:14,285 --> 00:49:19,207
[vocalizing continues]
730
00:49:27,006 --> 00:49:31,302
[Toop] Arthur's music often hada very oceanic feel.
731
00:49:31,386 --> 00:49:33,513
That sense of boundlessness.
732
00:49:33,596 --> 00:49:35,556
Arthur loved echo,
733
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:42,355
which gives you the feeling of
cavernous spaces and wide-open plains.
734
00:49:42,438 --> 00:49:44,691
One of the interesting things about Arthur
735
00:49:44,774 --> 00:49:50,113
was that he was able to use
this sense of oceanic formlessness,
736
00:49:50,196 --> 00:49:52,073
but make his own shapes with it.
737
00:49:59,038 --> 00:50:03,084
[Lee] It's funny. I still have the paperthat says that he was HIV positive.
738
00:50:05,211 --> 00:50:09,173
It didn't seem so bad. It seemed like
that was happening to other people.
739
00:50:09,257 --> 00:50:11,509
I mean, certainly at that time
when people were positive,
740
00:50:11,592 --> 00:50:13,052
they were getting sick,
and they were dying.
741
00:50:13,136 --> 00:50:15,596
And yet, he seemed so real to me
742
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,557
that it just seemed like
that's not going to happen.
743
00:50:19,726 --> 00:50:22,603
We weren't immediately thinking,
"Oh, you're going to die."
744
00:50:22,687 --> 00:50:25,023
We just were shocked, I guess.
745
00:50:25,106 --> 00:50:28,693
And I was tested, and I was not positive.
746
00:50:28,776 --> 00:50:30,737
And it was very upsetting because we were-
747
00:50:30,820 --> 00:50:32,739
what I thought we were monogamous.
748
00:50:32,822 --> 00:50:36,701
And I thought that, you know,
when did this happen? How did this happen?
749
00:50:36,784 --> 00:50:40,663
And, you know, it happened,
you know, at some indiscretion.
750
00:50:40,747 --> 00:50:42,623
It just takes one time, and it-
751
00:50:42,707 --> 00:50:45,626
You know, he was fooling around
with somebody sometime,
752
00:50:45,710 --> 00:50:47,545
and-and it happened.
753
00:50:49,213 --> 00:50:52,341
I was driving home from Gull Lake
with my son-in-law.
754
00:50:52,425 --> 00:50:55,344
He was driving the car,
and I was sitting there,
755
00:50:55,428 --> 00:50:59,432
and he said, "You know,
I've always thought it was really good
756
00:50:59,515 --> 00:51:05,271
the way you and Chuck were
with Charlie being gay,
757
00:51:05,354 --> 00:51:07,356
and how tolerant you were."
758
00:51:08,858 --> 00:51:10,568
- "What?"
- "What?"
759
00:51:10,651 --> 00:51:15,114
And that was my first recognition of it.
760
00:51:16,407 --> 00:51:19,243
The first thing I said when I talked to
Charlie after I found out he was gay,
761
00:51:19,327 --> 00:51:20,828
I said, "Have you had a test for AIDS?"
762
00:51:20,912 --> 00:51:23,456
And he said,
"No, and I don't want to know."
763
00:51:25,416 --> 00:51:28,711
I think that with the way
medicine was going at the time,
764
00:51:28,795 --> 00:51:31,672
people were constantly living in-
always living in hope.
765
00:51:33,424 --> 00:51:38,429
I mean, it was a pretty creative time,
even post, um, his diagnosis.
766
00:51:38,513 --> 00:51:42,100
Even in the last year
before he got really sick,
767
00:51:42,183 --> 00:51:45,103
he would leave here at midnight
to go to clubs just to hear music.
768
00:51:46,187 --> 00:51:51,109
[Brooks] He was writing his best workwhen he was battling AIDS.
769
00:51:51,192 --> 00:51:53,861
And you know-
I mean, that to me, when you hear that,
770
00:51:53,945 --> 00:51:57,532
in his weak-you know,
his faltering voice, it's incredible.
771
00:51:57,615 --> 00:52:02,078
[cello plays]
772
00:52:02,161 --> 00:52:08,709
♪ I take this time, baby, within ♪
773
00:52:11,212 --> 00:52:18,052
♪ I take this time, baby, within ♪
774
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:25,393
♪ I can take this time ♪
775
00:52:25,476 --> 00:52:31,315
♪ I take this time, baby, within ♪
776
00:52:34,861 --> 00:52:39,699
♪ I take this time ♪
777
00:52:43,953 --> 00:52:49,750
♪ I love, love you within ♪
778
00:52:53,421 --> 00:52:55,923
♪ Oh-oh, long time ♪
779
00:52:56,007 --> 00:52:59,218
♪ I love you within ♪
780
00:52:59,302 --> 00:53:01,053
[Hall] And one of the thingsthat happened to him
781
00:53:01,137 --> 00:53:04,140
was he got, um, cancer in his throat,
782
00:53:04,223 --> 00:53:05,808
so he couldn't barely sing.
783
00:53:05,892 --> 00:53:08,686
But he kept on singing
to his boyfriend every day,
784
00:53:08,769 --> 00:53:11,480
um, this great song "Love Comes Back,"
785
00:53:11,564 --> 00:53:15,985
where he's saying to his boyfriend,
"Being sad-
786
00:53:16,068 --> 00:53:17,987
Being sad-Yes, I'm sick."
787
00:53:18,070 --> 00:53:20,615
And in the song he's saying,
"Being sad is not a crime."
788
00:53:20,698 --> 00:53:23,910
So, he's, like, telling his boyfriend,
"It's okay, you know?
789
00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:27,205
I am dying, but it's okay."
790
00:53:28,122 --> 00:53:32,501
You know, his gifts were increasing
as his, you know...
791
00:53:33,628 --> 00:53:35,504
as his strength was leaving him.
792
00:54:01,405 --> 00:54:05,534
♪ There was a certain ♪
793
00:54:06,452 --> 00:54:10,831
♪ Memory of our home ♪
794
00:54:11,749 --> 00:54:15,002
[vocalizing]
795
00:54:34,647 --> 00:54:37,191
[continues]
796
00:54:55,751 --> 00:54:59,714
[Hall] Arthur became literally spaced out.So, he got dementia.
797
00:54:59,797 --> 00:55:02,550
So,
he went from being a guy who was, like,
798
00:55:02,633 --> 00:55:06,762
spaced out naturally,
and then spaced out all the time
799
00:55:06,846 --> 00:55:08,472
because he was stoned all the time,
800
00:55:08,556 --> 00:55:10,891
and then spaced out
because he was a genius.
801
00:55:10,975 --> 00:55:13,436
And then he became demented spaced out,
802
00:55:13,519 --> 00:55:17,440
but still with a feeling of grace.
803
00:55:19,650 --> 00:55:21,485
[Lee] You know, Arthur would be very sick
804
00:55:21,569 --> 00:55:23,571
and just barely
be spending his days on the couch
805
00:55:23,654 --> 00:55:25,406
and just having some soup,
806
00:55:25,489 --> 00:55:27,950
and kind of being pretty
out of it towards the end
807
00:55:28,034 --> 00:55:29,660
before he went in the hospital.
808
00:55:29,744 --> 00:55:33,122
And I just remember so nicely
that Allen would just-
809
00:55:33,205 --> 00:55:35,082
All of a sudden,
I'd hear a knock on the door.
810
00:55:35,166 --> 00:55:38,919
Allen would just say, you know,
"Can I sit with Arthur for a few minutes?"
811
00:55:42,423 --> 00:55:45,593
And then when he went
to the hospital for the last time,
812
00:55:45,676 --> 00:55:47,470
we had a meeting with the doctors.
813
00:55:47,553 --> 00:55:50,973
And, um, she sort of laid out
what was going to happen,
814
00:55:51,057 --> 00:55:55,311
and, um, what treatments could happen.
815
00:55:55,394 --> 00:55:58,981
It was his parents and myself
and the doctor, maybe another doctor.
816
00:55:59,065 --> 00:56:02,902
And, um-
you know, I didn't know them very well.
817
00:56:02,985 --> 00:56:06,697
And, um, the end result was
that Arthur's father said,
818
00:56:06,781 --> 00:56:10,659
"Well, we defer to
however Tom wants to proceed."
819
00:56:11,577 --> 00:56:15,039
And I was just really blown away by that.
820
00:56:15,122 --> 00:56:18,042
I kind of teased Charlie
once in a while when he was little.
821
00:56:18,125 --> 00:56:19,627
Charlie would do something,
822
00:56:19,710 --> 00:56:24,548
and then he'd frown up, or something...
at the table.
823
00:56:24,632 --> 00:56:27,009
And I said,
"Charlie, you're a poor sport."
824
00:56:27,093 --> 00:56:28,761
Oh, it would just make him so mad.
825
00:56:28,844 --> 00:56:31,389
I would call him a poor sport
once in a while
826
00:56:31,472 --> 00:56:33,140
when he'd do things like that.
827
00:56:37,228 --> 00:56:40,064
Then in New York, he was in his bed,
828
00:56:40,147 --> 00:56:43,859
and I had noticed his hair
was kind of mussed up
829
00:56:43,943 --> 00:56:46,904
and I said, "Charlie,
I'm going to comb your hair here."
830
00:56:46,987 --> 00:56:48,906
He had a comb there,
and I was combing his hair,
831
00:56:48,989 --> 00:56:52,410
and his hair was coming out
because of the chemotherapy.
832
00:56:52,493 --> 00:56:57,415
And I said,
"Charlie," I said, "You're a good sport."
833
00:56:57,498 --> 00:57:00,376
And he was out of it.
834
00:57:00,459 --> 00:57:04,171
And he opened his eyes and looked at me,
and he says, "Are you sure?"
835
00:57:10,469 --> 00:57:12,805
I said, "Yup. I'm sure."
836
00:57:18,811 --> 00:57:22,273
The last words I heard him say.
837
00:57:22,356 --> 00:57:25,901
[cello plays]
838
00:57:25,985 --> 00:57:28,946
[vocalizing]
839
00:57:30,114 --> 00:57:32,116
[music ends]
840
00:57:35,369 --> 00:57:38,581
- Thank you.
- [applause]
841
00:57:51,135 --> 00:57:54,138
[ballad plays]
842
00:58:22,374 --> 00:58:26,962
[woman]
? It's time to go home now?
843
00:58:28,380 --> 00:58:32,551
♪ It's time to go home now ♪
844
00:58:34,512 --> 00:58:38,349
♪ It's time to go home now ♪
845
00:58:40,434 --> 00:58:45,356
♪ It's time to go home now ♪
846
00:58:50,653 --> 00:58:54,240
[Emily] You know,I suppose where we really got to know Tom
847
00:58:54,323 --> 00:58:56,200
was when Charlie was so sick.
848
00:58:56,283 --> 00:58:58,744
[Chuck]
Then later, when we knew Tom better,
849
00:58:58,827 --> 00:59:00,621
- Hi.
- we just loved him
850
00:59:00,704 --> 00:59:02,831
like a brother, almost, you know?
851
00:59:02,915 --> 00:59:04,875
He's just a great guy.
852
00:59:04,959 --> 00:59:09,088
So what if he is...
Charlie's gay... partner?
853
00:59:10,005 --> 00:59:12,716
[Emily] So, we always saw him here,at least every summer.
854
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,845
- And he'd stay with us, at our house.
- At our house, yeah.
855
00:59:16,929 --> 00:59:22,184
And he was sort of a caretaker
when we weren't around.
856
00:59:32,069 --> 00:59:34,196
[Lee] If the chance werethat we had come out here,
857
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:35,739
we would be in our 30s,
858
00:59:35,823 --> 00:59:38,033
would I see it from this perspective of,
859
00:59:38,117 --> 00:59:42,162
"now I see it as an older person
who really appreciates all of this
860
00:59:42,246 --> 00:59:44,456
and really pines for it myself."
861
00:59:44,540 --> 00:59:46,500
I wonder-
You know, when I first met Arthur,
862
00:59:46,584 --> 00:59:49,378
we were busy being a young couple,
863
00:59:49,461 --> 00:59:53,632
going to see music and being in New York
and loving New York.
864
00:59:53,716 --> 00:59:55,759
But now I love this more.
865
01:00:10,274 --> 01:00:12,568
He embraced the sense of Iowa.
866
01:00:12,651 --> 01:00:14,612
You know,
I think he appreciated where he was from
867
01:00:14,695 --> 01:00:17,364
and how different it was from both coasts.
868
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:24,538
There was a time he came back from Iowa
with all these T-shirts about Oskaloosa.
869
01:00:24,622 --> 01:00:26,373
And then the trucker hats.
870
01:00:26,457 --> 01:00:28,626
What they were were seed companies,
871
01:00:28,709 --> 01:00:32,296
like the hybrid seed companies,
and feed companies.
872
01:00:32,379 --> 01:00:35,257
And that's where the hat
for the "master mix" comes from
873
01:00:35,341 --> 01:00:37,217
on the Calling Out of Context record.
874
01:00:37,301 --> 01:00:41,680
So, it says "master mix," which is
just great for, like, a music context,
875
01:00:41,764 --> 01:00:45,059
but it's-
the mix is the feed mix for the animals.
876
01:00:47,853 --> 01:00:51,231
He would come to Iowa with his keyboard,
his cello.
877
01:00:51,315 --> 01:00:53,359
He'd come equipped to keep working.
878
01:00:54,568 --> 01:00:58,822
I think he was conflicted about
how to spend time with his family.
879
01:01:01,742 --> 01:01:03,911
[Emily] We never didunderstand his music too well.
880
01:01:03,994 --> 01:01:06,372
- No, we really didn't.
- So, it was-
881
01:01:06,455 --> 01:01:09,208
I call it music
you can't really tap your foot to.
882
01:01:10,417 --> 01:01:13,796
[Emily] We-We like it better now.
883
01:01:22,304 --> 01:01:25,808
[Russell sings, indistinct]
884
01:01:27,518 --> 01:01:29,186
[Tom]
This is actually off a test pressing.
885
01:01:29,269 --> 01:01:32,731
You can hear the record
crackling a little bit.
886
01:01:34,608 --> 01:01:37,861
After he died,
I revisited a lot of the pop folk songs
887
01:01:37,945 --> 01:01:40,364
that I hadn't been listening to
in a long time.
888
01:01:40,447 --> 01:01:44,827
Kind of celebrating him, in a way,
by listening to his music.
889
01:01:44,910 --> 01:01:46,870
I would load myself up with cassettes
890
01:01:46,954 --> 01:01:50,207
based on how much time
I was going to be out of the house.
891
01:01:50,290 --> 01:01:51,834
[chuckles]
892
01:01:51,917 --> 01:01:54,461
So, it could be four or five cassettes.
893
01:01:54,545 --> 01:01:57,548
And I would just listen to them nonstop.
894
01:01:59,591 --> 01:02:01,635
[Russell sings, indistinct]
895
01:02:01,719 --> 01:02:04,471
And you can hear his voice.
It's what's so nice.
896
01:02:04,555 --> 01:02:07,850
♪ I will find you anytime ♪
897
01:02:10,310 --> 01:02:14,732
And this is sort of, like,
a bridge between, sort of, the pop songs,
898
01:02:14,815 --> 01:02:17,484
and even, like,
taking away from the dance music,
899
01:02:17,568 --> 01:02:19,611
but moving towards
the World of Echo music.
900
01:02:19,695 --> 01:02:22,406
Because he's still trying to do
the drumbeat, the drum sound,
901
01:02:22,489 --> 01:02:26,201
but, you know-
but integrating more of the cello with it.
902
01:02:26,285 --> 01:02:28,871
[music continues]
903
01:02:29,747 --> 01:02:32,583
It wasn't really until Arthur died,
904
01:02:32,666 --> 01:02:36,086
um, in the early '90s,
that I learned anything about the guy,
905
01:02:36,170 --> 01:02:38,672
and I learned
about this great body of work.
906
01:02:38,756 --> 01:02:43,177
I was just fed up, as a fan,
that this music wasn't available.
907
01:02:43,260 --> 01:02:45,179
And for purely selfish reasons, I thought,
908
01:02:45,262 --> 01:02:49,600
"The only way I'll get to hear this music
is if I do it myself and get involved."
909
01:02:49,683 --> 01:02:51,894
And I just simply called Tom one day
and introduced myself
910
01:02:51,977 --> 01:02:53,937
and told him what I wanted to do.
911
01:02:54,021 --> 01:02:56,356
And it was really exciting to meet him,
and I-
912
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:58,692
I'll never forget
the first day I went over there.
913
01:02:58,776 --> 01:03:00,903
He was just buzzing around the apartment,
914
01:03:00,986 --> 01:03:03,947
just, you know-
just pulling out all these cassettes,
915
01:03:04,031 --> 01:03:07,493
and playing 30 seconds of one tape
and taking it out,
916
01:03:07,576 --> 01:03:10,204
putting in another 30 seconds
of all this wonderful music
917
01:03:10,287 --> 01:03:12,122
that, you know,
I'd never heard before that-
918
01:03:12,206 --> 01:03:14,541
You know, Tom said, "These are songs
919
01:03:14,625 --> 01:03:17,002
that Arthur wanted to release,
but nobody would put 'em out."
920
01:03:18,128 --> 01:03:20,547
And this is a really beautiful song.
"Love is Overtaking Me."
921
01:03:20,631 --> 01:03:25,177
This was a song that was a really rough,
rocky tape I've heard.
922
01:03:25,260 --> 01:03:28,096
Like from, I don't know.
It sounds like it's from the early '70s,
923
01:03:28,180 --> 01:03:30,140
and then he revamped this.
924
01:03:30,224 --> 01:03:32,559
And it's so sweet.
? Love?
925
01:03:32,643 --> 01:03:34,478
[chuckles]
926
01:03:34,561 --> 01:03:37,689
[acoustic guitar]
927
01:03:42,694 --> 01:03:47,825
♪ Is it so different now ♪
928
01:03:49,201 --> 01:03:52,120
♪ Or it's just the way I feel ♪
929
01:03:52,204 --> 01:03:55,958
♪ Just the way I feel ♪
930
01:03:57,459 --> 01:03:58,877
But there's literally...
931
01:03:59,795 --> 01:04:02,464
maybe 800 reels.
932
01:04:03,048 --> 01:04:05,843
Two-inch reels
and quarter-inch reels of tape.
933
01:04:07,344 --> 01:04:11,682
Another few hundred cassettes,
several dozen DAT tapes.
934
01:04:11,765 --> 01:04:16,186
Hundred and hundreds of pages
of song lyrics and poetry.
935
01:04:16,270 --> 01:04:17,855
♪ In my heart ♪
936
01:04:17,938 --> 01:04:20,023
The records that I've released have been-
937
01:04:20,107 --> 01:04:23,986
You know, they've been
very successful for what they are.
938
01:04:24,069 --> 01:04:26,363
Arthur remains contemporary.
939
01:04:27,364 --> 01:04:28,866
♪ It's the same ♪
940
01:04:28,949 --> 01:04:31,535
[Chuck]
I spend a lot of time on the computer,
941
01:04:31,618 --> 01:04:33,078
and I plug in Arthur Russell,
942
01:04:33,161 --> 01:04:39,293
and there's close to 800,
900 different blogs.
943
01:04:40,335 --> 01:04:41,587
Whatever that is.
944
01:04:42,921 --> 01:04:48,135
And I'm just delighted to hear somebody
say something nice about him, you know?
945
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,138
It pleases us that it's youth...
946
01:04:52,139 --> 01:04:54,433
that are interested in listening.
947
01:04:54,933 --> 01:04:57,227
I guess when everyone
started talking about him-
948
01:04:57,311 --> 01:04:59,021
Was that, like, four years ago
or something?
949
01:04:59,104 --> 01:05:00,689
When all those compilations came out.
950
01:05:00,772 --> 01:05:04,985
I just started, mostly on the Internet,
just reading about it.
951
01:05:05,068 --> 01:05:08,655
At first, I definitely thought
it was something very new.
952
01:05:08,739 --> 01:05:12,117
I thought it was something
released during that week, or something.
953
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,287
It felt almost like something
from the future.
954
01:05:15,370 --> 01:05:18,290
So, it surprised me
when I found out that it was so old.
955
01:05:19,207 --> 01:05:24,338
Everyone I know seems to have
just an infinite love for his music.
956
01:05:25,756 --> 01:05:28,884
There's a lot of great art
that never finds a huge audience
957
01:05:29,718 --> 01:05:34,640
or that never finds a huge audience
during the artist's lifetime.
958
01:05:34,723 --> 01:05:37,351
I mean, I could say
that some of his stuff was just-
959
01:05:37,434 --> 01:05:40,729
It was out of its time. It was ahead
of its time. It was behind its time.
960
01:05:40,812 --> 01:05:43,273
It just existed as itself, and-
961
01:05:44,316 --> 01:05:47,569
I mean, from my point of view,
he's one of the best songwriters ever.
962
01:05:47,653 --> 01:05:50,906
You know, he's as good as the Beatles.
He's as good as anybody.
963
01:05:53,367 --> 01:05:57,663
[Toop] One of the real paradoxicalaspects of Arthur's life and work
964
01:05:57,746 --> 01:06:00,290
is that he clearly wanted
to be successful,
965
01:06:00,374 --> 01:06:03,043
and he had very few of the attributes
966
01:06:03,126 --> 01:06:06,755
which help you to make it
in the entertainment industry.
967
01:06:08,674 --> 01:06:11,510
Arthur was creating a kind of utopia.
968
01:06:12,761 --> 01:06:16,098
So, there was a compulsion
to keep remaking this world,
969
01:06:16,181 --> 01:06:19,559
and this world was very, very complicated.
970
01:06:20,394 --> 01:06:22,270
[Zummo] I don't know what a genius is,
971
01:06:22,354 --> 01:06:26,483
but if it's got to do
with energy and drive and mental capacity,
972
01:06:26,566 --> 01:06:28,151
you know, he had all of that.
973
01:06:28,652 --> 01:06:32,739
He was dead set to bridge the gap
between popular and serious music.
974
01:06:36,118 --> 01:06:39,830
He said to me,
"Will, music can heal. It can heal you.
975
01:06:41,373 --> 01:06:43,959
Music is not just something
you go dancing to.
976
01:06:44,042 --> 01:06:46,461
It can really heal."
977
01:06:51,842 --> 01:06:54,678
♪ That's us ♪
978
01:06:54,761 --> 01:06:57,431
♪ Before we got there ♪
979
01:06:58,598 --> 01:07:01,309
♪ That's morning time ♪
980
01:07:02,227 --> 01:07:04,730
♪ Before we got there ♪
981
01:07:05,313 --> 01:07:07,983
♪ That's morning time ♪
982
01:07:09,317 --> 01:07:12,279
♪ Before we got there ♪
983
01:07:12,779 --> 01:07:16,450
♪ That's morning time ♪
984
01:07:16,533 --> 01:07:19,494
♪ Before we got there ♪
985
01:07:21,663 --> 01:07:24,666
[disco music]
986
01:07:33,383 --> 01:07:35,719
♪ I just wanna be ♪
987
01:07:35,802 --> 01:07:38,805
♪ Wherever you are ♪
988
01:07:38,889 --> 01:07:41,058
♪ Hard as that can be ♪
989
01:07:41,141 --> 01:07:43,101
♪ It's never too hard ♪
990
01:07:43,852 --> 01:07:46,396
♪ With this our love to see ♪
991
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:48,523
♪ By its own light ♪
992
01:07:49,232 --> 01:07:51,151
♪ Love inside of me ♪
993
01:07:51,735 --> 01:07:54,738
♪ It's working at night ♪
994
01:07:54,821 --> 01:07:59,493
♪ Seconds before
I see in the dark, yeah ♪
995
01:08:07,709 --> 01:08:09,711
♪ Seconds turn, this time ♪
996
01:08:09,795 --> 01:08:12,005
What would have happened if he'd lived?
997
01:08:12,089 --> 01:08:14,466
What would have happened
if he hadn't gotten AIDS? And-
998
01:08:15,383 --> 01:08:18,136
And, you know, he's-What kind of music?
999
01:08:18,220 --> 01:08:20,388
How far would he have gone?
1000
01:08:20,472 --> 01:08:22,891
I think he would have gone far. I think.
1001
01:08:22,974 --> 01:08:28,146
Either that, or he'd have had
another 4,0 0 0 or 5,00 0 tapes.
1002
01:08:28,230 --> 01:08:31,358
Just that many more. [laughs]
1003
01:08:31,441 --> 01:08:36,613
♪ He's a wild combination ♪
1004
01:08:38,740 --> 01:08:43,286
♪ He's a wild combination ♪
1005
01:08:45,705 --> 01:08:48,458
♪ He's a wild ♪
1006
01:08:49,251 --> 01:08:51,378
♪ It's a loving you, baby ♪
1007
01:08:52,504 --> 01:08:54,756
♪ It's a talk in the dark ♪
1008
01:08:56,091 --> 01:08:58,301
♪ It's a walk in the morning ♪
1009
01:08:59,553 --> 01:09:04,349
♪ He's a wild combination ♪
1010
01:09:06,434 --> 01:09:11,356
♪ He's a wild combination ♪
1011
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:15,485
♪ He's a wild ♪
1012
01:09:16,862 --> 01:09:19,406
♪ It's a loving you, baby ♪
1013
01:09:20,365 --> 01:09:23,702
♪ It's a talk in the dark ♪
1014
01:09:23,785 --> 01:09:26,121
♪ It's a walk in the morning ♪
1015
01:09:34,296 --> 01:09:35,422
♪ That's us ♪
1016
01:09:37,215 --> 01:09:39,384
♪ Before we got there ♪
1017
01:09:40,594 --> 01:09:42,387
♪ That's morning time ♪
1018
01:09:44,139 --> 01:09:46,641
♪ Before we got there ♪
1019
01:09:48,393 --> 01:09:50,228
♪ That's us ♪
1020
01:09:51,229 --> 01:09:54,566
♪ Before we got there ♪
1021
01:09:54,649 --> 01:09:56,526
♪ That's morning time ♪
1022
01:09:58,278 --> 01:10:01,031
♪ Before we got there ♪
1023
01:10:03,617 --> 01:10:08,705
♪ For a price
Push up and be part of it all ♪
1024
01:10:09,706 --> 01:10:11,416
♪ Surfing ♪
1025
01:10:13,210 --> 01:10:15,629
♪ Swimming ♪
1026
01:10:20,675 --> 01:10:25,597
♪ It's a wild combination ♪
1027
01:10:26,348 --> 01:10:27,849
♪ Can you say it? ♪
1028
01:10:27,933 --> 01:10:32,312
♪ It's a wild combination ♪
1029
01:10:34,731 --> 01:10:36,775
♪ It's a wild ♪
1030
01:10:38,151 --> 01:10:40,695
♪ It's a loving thing to do ♪
1031
01:10:41,404 --> 01:10:42,906
♪ That's us ♪
1032
01:10:42,989 --> 01:10:44,449
♪ It's a love ♪
1033
01:10:44,532 --> 01:10:47,911
♪ Before we got there ♪
1034
01:10:47,994 --> 01:10:51,373
♪ That's morning time ♪
1035
01:10:51,456 --> 01:10:54,751
♪ Before we got there ♪
1036
01:10:54,834 --> 01:10:58,129
- ? That's morning time?
- ? It's a wild?
1037
01:10:58,213 --> 01:11:01,716
♪ Before we got there ♪
1038
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:04,010
- ? That's morning time?
- ? It's a wild?
87156
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