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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,216 When my son was murdered, 2 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,136 the police thought, "Just another Black boy stabbed." 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,216 You're telling me that there's nothing you can do, 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:15,536 and I don't accept that. 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,696 What the hell is Operation Fishpool? This is all one case. 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,816 I'd like to take on the Stephen Lawrence murder. 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,656 This is not a whodunnit. We know who done it, 8 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,416 and yet no-one has been held to account for young Stephen's murder. 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,616 His body was covered in bruises and abrasions 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:33,096 from being kicked and punched. 11 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,536 There were two stab wounds. No, overarm, like you're bowling. 12 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:37,896 Well, there's a pattern. 13 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:39,136 He's a decent witness, 14 00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:41,336 delays in following 'em up, and changes of heart. 15 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,096 What kind of evidence? 16 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,696 These were found on Dobson's jacket, and these on Norris' trousers. 17 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,936 Microscopically indistinguishable from Stephen's polo shirt. 18 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,936 You realise this is the first physical evidence 19 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:54,696 linking any of the suspects with Stephen? 20 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,176 Mistakes were made, but this is my case now, so will you trust me? 21 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,176 Trust has to be earned. 22 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,696 He told me not to tell nobody, but it's all here. 23 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,520 What? Same old Met. 24 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,616 A dream has come true here today. 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,976 This building will be a nurturing space, 26 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,600 but it will also be a space of high expectation. 27 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,616 We still have an uphill battle against the low expectations 28 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,016 society has for Black children. 29 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:48,416 So this will be a space where we see your gifts and expect excellence. 30 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:53,136 And when I see the work you young people are already achieving, 31 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,456 your creativity and ambition, that, to me, 32 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:03,480 is the best way we can remember and celebrate Stephen. 33 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,680 Thank you for coming. 34 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,600 Come on! 35 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:36,800 I've called the insurance company already. 36 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,576 Mr Driscoll. 37 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,976 I take it you're not here about the broken glass. 38 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,416 What happened? This is not the first time. 39 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,200 Some people don't like what we're trying to do. So? 40 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,976 Er, I wanted to straighten things out. 41 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,856 The business with the newspapers. 42 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,360 I'm confident the leak didn't come from my team. 43 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,960 Oh, I got some doughnuts. Thought maybe... 44 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,016 I'm glad you're confident, but I'm not, 45 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,936 because to me, this is the same old Met, 46 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,696 so concerned with publicity that you'll jeopardise 47 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,336 the investigation for a good headline. 48 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,376 Mrs Lawrence, I was as furious as you were when I read the headlines, 49 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:20,920 the story... 50 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,960 Do something for me. Read these. 51 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:28,960 Out loud. 52 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,136 "If you don't like this country, get in your canoe" 53 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,496 "and go back to where you came from." 54 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,776 I mean... No, go on. 55 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,056 "You ungrateful Black bitch." Look, this is a hate crime. 56 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,376 I get this rubbish every time Stephen's in the paper. 57 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,016 I made the choice to fight for my son, 58 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,816 rather than keeping my mouth shut, and I pay a price for that, 59 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,080 but I resent paying for the Met's publicity stunts. 60 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,016 I know we haven't done much to inspire your confidence 61 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,816 over the years, but this is my case now. 62 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,656 We've got a real chance here. The forensics are promising. 63 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,656 But if there are people in the Met working against you, 64 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:09,880 you have a problem. 65 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,296 You need to ask yourself why there are people in your organisation 66 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,120 who don't want you to succeed. 67 00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:30,600 Birdy. Did we, er, get the statement from the witnesses? 68 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,576 This is one of the most sensitive investigations 69 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,896 on the Met's books, and we can't even get a door that closes. 70 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,976 I've been on to estates. 71 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,096 We wanna nail this case, don't we? 72 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,016 Right, well, there are people out there who don't want us to nail it, 73 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,856 people out there who don't want us to succeed where they failed, 74 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,136 people who want to make excuses, blame the victims. 75 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,736 Well, I can't do anything about those people, but I tell you, 76 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,096 if I find out anyone in this office has been leaking stuff to the press, 77 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,880 I will deal with them... thoroughly. 78 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,280 From now on, no paperwork left lying around. 79 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:11,480 We're all accountable. 80 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,176 They were all as gutted as we were, Clive. 81 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,216 Incoming forensic reports, you and me only. Keep 'em in the safe. 82 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,840 Anyone else, as and when required. 83 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,336 They closed Rolan's school, 84 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,800 and asked if we wanted the memorial plaque before they knocked it down. 85 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,080 How you keep going? 86 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,200 It's a life sentence, Neville. 87 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,080 I've accepted that. 88 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:13,936 All I can do is try to make my anger... productive, 89 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,416 use it to bring about change. 90 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,720 But it changed me, you know? That's the problem. 91 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,160 It's stolen my memories. I... 92 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,816 I can't see Stephen's smile, I can't hear his laugh 93 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:35,000 without thinking about the killers and feeling so much hatred. 94 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:41,496 I pray so hard for the strength to forgive. 95 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,736 Forgiveness? Huh! 96 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,736 I mean... have they shown any remorse? 97 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:53,096 No. No. That's the problem. 98 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,176 Then it's not your problem. 99 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,600 Forgiveness... is not yours to give. 100 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,936 They have to ask. They have to atone. 101 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:06,720 Without that 102 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,480 dangerous, man. 103 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,456 How you mean? Lets the country off the hook, man. 104 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,136 Lets people think that, that we can do without justice, 105 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:22,600 without accountability. 106 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,160 When Rolan was killed 107 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:36,520 the BNP called his murderers "heroes of the white race". 108 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,040 I remember that. Right. 109 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:45,400 But when we protested, it was us they called extremists. 110 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:52,256 It was our children that the police harassed, and not the racists. 111 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,456 And now, now they want us to forgive and move on, 112 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,616 so that they can carry on and pretend that all is well in England. 113 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,600 No. Uh-uh. 114 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,976 When England finally gets angry 115 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,736 about Black children being lynched in the streets, 116 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,736 when the police and the government say enough is enough, 117 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,120 maybe then I will let go my anger. 118 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,120 But until we have real change. 119 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,640 I'm not gonna cheapen my son's life 120 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,920 with forgiveness. 121 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,520 Uh-uh. 122 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,456 I've made contact with most of the coppers from the scene that night, 123 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,776 mostly retired now, and mostly none too thrilled to hear from me. 124 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,536 What about Duwayne Brooks? He wants nothing to do with us. 125 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:55,576 But I was sort of thinking, do we really need him? 126 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,216 I mean, this case is gonna rest on the forensics, yeah? 127 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,136 Forensics are slippery eels. 128 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,536 Get a scientist on the stand, half the jury will glaze over. 129 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:04,296 We need them to hear Duwayne's story, 130 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,976 along with any other witnesses we can persuade to come forward. 131 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,576 Give me the files from the kids on the estate again. 132 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,240 They're our best hope at the minute. 133 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,696 Louise? Clive Driscoll. 134 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,856 I'm a detective investigating the murder of Stephen Lawrence. 135 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,456 I don't wanna talk to you. You did wanna talk, though. 136 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,960 You responded to the witness appeal in 1993. That took real guts. 137 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,560 No. Sorry. 138 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,400 Five minutes. Just a chat. 139 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,760 All right. But you're not coming in my flat. 140 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:13,616 I wasn't from the area. 141 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,776 I just used to see a boy off the estate. 142 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,696 That's how you knew the Acourts? Yeah. 143 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:22,176 Knowing they've killed a boy, having a secret like that, it was horrible. 144 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,576 When I did tell the police, they didn't seem interested, 145 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:25,737 so after that... 146 00:10:25,761 --> 00:10:28,136 Yeah, well, after that, you didn't trust us. 147 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:29,776 Exactly. 148 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,536 And meantime, I was hearing things about David's dad. 149 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:33,856 Clifford Norris. Yeah. 150 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,056 People getting threatened, and worse. 151 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,256 I was 15. I was clueless, petrified. 152 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,776 Look, Louise, this isn't 1993. 153 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,296 If you do the right thing, there won't be any repercussions, 154 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,336 and we can protect you from the likes of Clifford Norris. 155 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,256 I'm not being rude, but if you haven't managed to catch those boys 156 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,280 after all these years, why should I believe you can protect me? 157 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,616 'Financial report about the Olympics. I mean, just bizarre. 158 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,816 'I mean, I think Boris is hoping one day to be leader of the Tory Party 159 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,736 'and Prime Minister, and his party's never gonna let him do that, 160 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,136 'any more than the Labour Party would let me do it. Too big a risk. 161 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,816 'So this is the best job he's ever gonna have in politics, 162 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,816 'and my advice would be, "Do it..." ' 163 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,080 For goodness sake! 164 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:44,920 Goodness. 165 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,376 Excuse me, you've just hit my car. Excuse me. 166 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,296 Excuse me. 167 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,376 Hey! No! No, no! 168 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,976 How much longer am I going to have to wait? 169 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,656 Someone will be with you in due course, madam. 170 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:24,536 Can you not check it out? 171 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:27,576 Your colleague said 20 minutes an hour ago. 172 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,136 Name? 173 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,240 I don't know, they didn't... No, your name. What's your name? 174 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,720 Doreen Lawrence. 175 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,176 I'm afraid at the moment all of our officers 176 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,296 are currently busy on high-priority calls. 177 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,976 This was a car-jacking. Surely that's high priority? 178 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,856 If you wouldn't mind waiting, 179 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,120 I'm sure someone will be with you in due course. 180 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,136 On him, now, there! You do it every time! 181 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:19,680 Hello? 182 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,056 Wh... 183 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:24,560 I've got to go. 184 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,256 I'm sorry. 185 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,376 I wanna speak to the officer in charge of Mrs Lawrence's case. 186 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,256 Sorry, who are you? DCI Driscoll, Specialist Crime Directorate. 187 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:36,496 Oh, sorry, guv. 188 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,296 Quick as you like, son. Yeah, of course. 189 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,816 Are you hurt? I can take you to A&E. Oh, no, I'm fine. 190 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,576 They didn't touch me. But I left everything in the car, 191 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,976 my wallet, I'll have to cancel all my cards... 192 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,520 We'll sort it all out. Don't worry. 193 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,096 Right, the duty inspector will be here in a moment. 194 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,896 Can I get you a cup of tea in the meantime? I'm fine. 195 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,057 Yes, please, Sergeant. 196 00:13:55,081 --> 00:13:59,096 Two teas, and, er, some biccies if you can rustle 'em up. Sugar, Mrs I? 197 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,840 I'll just take milk, thank you. 198 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,976 As a peace offering it was appreciated, 199 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,177 but as a cup of tea... 200 00:14:09,201 --> 00:14:12,056 Shocking. He'll never make inspector like that. 201 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,840 Did he put the milk in the mug with the teabag still in it? Ugh. 202 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:17,296 I'll make us a proper cuppa. 203 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,096 Here, I'll do that. You've had a shock. 204 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,296 I'm not a damsel in distress, Mr Driscoll. 205 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,336 Mr Driscoll is what my teachers called me at school 206 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:25,896 before they gave me six of the best. 207 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:27,017 Clive will do, I think. 208 00:14:27,041 --> 00:14:30,160 OK. Thank you, Clive, but I'll manage. 209 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,296 We've had to turn this house into a fortress. 210 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,160 There's a cost to speaking out. Yeah, I can see that. 211 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:04,000 I have to say, though, you ain't half good at it, speaking out. 212 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,096 I reckon there must be a lot of powerful people who have nightmares 213 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,416 about getting the hairdryer treatment from Doreen Lawrence. 214 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,136 I didn't plan for it. 215 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,256 I thought the killers would just be arrested. 216 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,976 Never expected getting justice to be my job. 217 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,256 No, well, it shouldn't have been. 218 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,560 But here we are, 15 years later. Mm. 219 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,976 Do you have children? Yeah, five. Four boys and one girl. 220 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,536 The eldest is in Afghanistan, as it happens, yeah. Marine. 221 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,856 Mm, you must worry about him. Sick to my stomach. 222 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,616 It's funny, when I was away at Hendon for basic training, 223 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,456 he'd, er, he'd come up and he'd cling onto my leg, 224 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,336 "Don't go, Daddy." 225 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,536 And now the shoe's on the other foot. 226 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:57,120 I have to stop myself clinging onto him every time he ships out. 227 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,496 You know, erm, I, er... 228 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:13,536 I can't even begin to imagine the strength 229 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,176 it must take to keep fighting all these years. 230 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,256 Yeah, sometimes, I really do feel like giving up. 231 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,336 But then I sleep, and I dream of him, and, you know, 232 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:30,080 he's so sad and angry at not being alive. 233 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,240 It's horrible. So I keep going. 234 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:40,056 It's not about feeling strong. I don't feel strong. 235 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,600 I just don't have a choice. 236 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,616 'From London's newsroom at seven o'clock. 237 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,416 'Helping you breathe more easily, London gets a new low-emission zone. 238 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,816 'How immigrants should be taught how to queue in shops, 239 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,616 'and why Cameron's losing ground in the power stakes. 240 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:58,737 'Good morning, I'm...' 241 00:16:58,761 --> 00:17:00,736 Birdy, I need you to get one of your DCs 242 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,456 to track down Clifford Norris. 243 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,856 Old man Norris? Why? 244 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,496 A witness, Birdy, what else? 245 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,736 These were found on Norris' trousers. Two hairs. 246 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,856 The mitochondrial DNA is a thousand-to-one match with Stephen. 247 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,136 His hair? That's a significant find, surely. 248 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,736 Well, a thousand-to-one isn't as strong as the fibres, 249 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,136 but it's corroborative. 250 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,616 It adds detail to the picture. Good. 251 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,856 Let's hope there's more where that came from. 252 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,200 It is good, but we need to prove how it got there. 253 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,536 We've had a couple of breakthroughs on the case. 254 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,376 But we're looking at a 15-year game of pass-the-parcel 255 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:38,776 when it comes to exhibits. 256 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,336 We've had internal reviews, external reviews, private prosecution. 257 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:44,816 The defence are gonna be looking for any opportunity 258 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,136 to cry contamination. 259 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,776 I need to know every time anyone touched, moved, 260 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,816 opened, or even glanced at an exhibit. 261 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,776 So, hang on, you're talking about forensic evidence. 262 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,776 New and compelling forensic evidence. 263 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,136 But for it to be worth anything, we need to prove 264 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,296 there was absolutely no opportunity for Stephen's clothing 265 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,600 to have contact with the suspects' clothing after the fact. 266 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,936 I need someone I can rely on to do that, and that's you. 267 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,576 All right. 268 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,200 But I was working at Woolwich when Stephen was killed. 269 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,336 I remember the atmosphere. Let's be honest, Del, back in '93, 270 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:23,336 the Acourt gang would have fitted in better with the Metropolitan Police 271 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:24,896 than young Stephen. 272 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,016 I guess what I'm asking is, is this real? 273 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,696 Does the brass actually want us to solve this murder? 274 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,896 We're not doing this to please the Metropolitan Police. 275 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,656 The Lawrence family have lost a son. 276 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,000 We're murder police, we work for them. 277 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,056 Makes a change to have the police call a meeting, 278 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:55,600 instead of us demanding one. 279 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,120 Jocelyn. Are we the first here? I think so. 280 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,976 Jocelyn Cockburn? Yes. 281 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,136 And Neville Lawrence? Yes, that's correct. 282 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,400 Thank you. 283 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:20,640 Neville. 284 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,400 Doreen. Imran. 285 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,976 The forensic review is on-going, and we've made another significant find. 286 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,976 Human hair strands have been identified 287 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,616 on two of the suspects' clothing. 288 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,376 Stephen's hair? 289 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,016 We think so. It's a thousand-to-one DNA match. 290 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,456 Is that enough? Are we talking about bringing charges? 291 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,896 Not yet. We wanna build the strongest case possible, 292 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,176 and to achieve that, 293 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,456 we need solid witnesses as well as forensic evidence. 294 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,576 Previous investigations have treated some crucial people badly. 295 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,336 Duwayne Brooks being an example. 296 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,696 They treated that boy like a prime suspect. 297 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,896 Yes. We let him down. 298 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,696 But when it comes to trial, we'll need him. 299 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,256 So you think there will be a trial? 300 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,336 We're increasingly confident, but as it's a double jeopardy case, 301 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:14,456 the CPS will want to consult the family on re-prosecution. 302 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,536 As in, do we want a prosecution? 303 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,576 I know it sounds like a daft question. There's no question. 304 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,456 There's never been any question about our commitment. 305 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,216 The question is whether the Metropolitan Police 306 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,936 are actually going to support the prosecution this time around. 307 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,136 We've been here twice before, you know. 308 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,456 We don't want to go through that disappointment again. 309 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,736 I know. You have my word. 310 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,856 It's not your word I'm worried about. 311 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,656 I mean, let's not beat around the bush. 312 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,840 I'm still worried about corruption. 313 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,896 Look, when it comes to previous investigations, 314 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,576 I'd like answers to a lot of questions. 315 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,240 Will I get those answers? Probably not. 316 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,016 All I can say is I'm the SIO now, 317 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,976 and I have no intention of letting anyone interfere 318 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,816 with my investigation. 319 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,216 'DC Derek Reid calling. 320 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,096 'We're trying to establish the chain of custody 321 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:10,016 'for exhibits in the Stephen Lawrence case, 322 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,336 'and I have some questions regarding his clothing.' 323 00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:14,736 On the night of the murder, 324 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,936 you brought Stephen's clothing back to the station unsealed, to Eltham? 325 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,256 Er, no, not to Eltham. 326 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,136 I mean, it was drenched with blood, so I took 'em to Southwark. 327 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,336 They had a drying room there. They were sealed once they were dry. 328 00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:29,376 So, during that process, there's a lot of wet blood, 329 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,056 the bags aren't sealed. 330 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,816 Could you have transferred blood to the outside of the evidence bag? 331 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,400 I mean, I wore gloves, but it's possible. 332 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,776 You seized Dobson's jacket on 7th of May. 333 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,016 Was it bagged at the scene? Yes. 334 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,137 Right. 335 00:21:48,161 --> 00:21:53,016 Erm... only, in your notebook, 336 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,616 you made an entry about sealing exhibits 337 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,760 back at Plumstead nick later that day. 338 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,920 Well, I mean, I would have followed best practice. 339 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,256 We're just trying to fill any gaps. If you can help us, great. 340 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,280 If you can't remember, understandable. 341 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,200 We're on the same side here. 342 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,176 So when Stephen's clothes arrived from Southwark, 343 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,176 did they go into a secure evidence store? 344 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,536 Er, no, it wasn't an evidence store, really. It was just an unused cell. 345 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,416 What, so there was some kind of shelving, partitioning? 346 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,496 Unfortunately not, no. 347 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,976 As I remember it, Stephen's clothing was stored on the bed. 348 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,216 The bed? 349 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,080 Well, yes. I mean, like I said, it was a cell. 350 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,576 Shaun. 'Clive.' 351 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,856 'Birdy's found a witness.' 352 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,016 Follow-up from a canvas a few years back. 353 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,536 I think you might want some face time with this one. 354 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,536 I'll see you back there. OK. Keep him comfortable. 355 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,080 I'll be there in about half an hour. 356 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,496 I'd had a drink in Woolwich, and then I was walking home 357 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,096 to where I was lodging, and I was almost at the Well Hall roundabout, 358 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:18,720 and that's where I saw, you know, the... the bother. 359 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,256 What did you see, exactly? 360 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,696 I saw David Norris, Gary Dobson and the two Acourts 361 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,496 laying into the Black kid, Lawrence. 362 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,136 How many drinks had you had? 363 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:36,456 I don't know, six, seven pints, few chasers. 364 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,280 So you were drunk. I was pissed. I weren't blind. 365 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,216 You weren't local, so how did you know who they were? 366 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,016 A bloke I worked with pointed them out to me a few weeks before, 367 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,016 told me to watch out for 'em, said they were aggy, 368 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,696 carried knives and that, you know. 369 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,816 Can you give us his details, the bloke that pointed them out to you? 370 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,296 I can do. I don't know if he'll talk to you. 371 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,360 I ain't spoke to him in ten years. 372 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,096 Why didn't you come forward at the time? 373 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:08,096 Well, no-one asked me, did they? So... 374 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:11,336 Well, we were on the radio, on Crimewatch, in the papers. 375 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,416 We were begging for witnesses. 376 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,776 Well, if you want the truth, I'm a racist, 377 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,920 so I won't lose any sleep over him. 378 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,856 So why talk now? 379 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,016 They came and asked me, I told them what I knew. 380 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,720 I ain't afraid of the Acourts. 381 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,256 He was drunk. 382 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,816 On the other hand, he's a fully paid-up racist, which is helpful. 383 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,896 No reason to lie. If we can find the other workmate, 384 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,896 get him to confirm he pointed out the gang, firm up the ID, 385 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,280 we might finally have a useable witness. 386 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,656 My anxiety is that some of this forensic evidence, 387 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,880 though compelling, is not exactly new. 388 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:57,776 What do you mean? 389 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,776 Advice we've had from legal counsel is that it isn't good enough 390 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,656 to call evidence new because we've just found it, 391 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,456 if we really should have found it before. 392 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,936 Even though your tests have found traces of Stephen 393 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,456 on the suspects' clothing, it was more difficult, 394 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,520 but not impossible, to conduct this kind of analysis in '93. 395 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,400 The Met can't afford another Stephen Lawrence trial to collapse. 396 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:24,176 What are you saying? What I've always said. 397 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,616 That I doubt this review 398 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,656 will produce anything strong enough for a retrial. 399 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,240 You don't even have a decent witness. We're working on that. 400 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,200 It isn't enough. 401 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,936 I am sorry, Clive, but we need more than this for the CPS. 402 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,016 All right, then. 403 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,160 We'll just have to find more, won't we? 404 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,256 I've got some more bad news, I'm afraid. 405 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,496 Tracked down our racist's workmate. Don't tell me. 406 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,216 Denies all knowledge. 407 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,496 Says he didn't know the suspects. 408 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,256 Everyone in Eltham knew the Acourt gang. Exactly. 409 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,000 But he's not playing ball. 410 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:13,320 Hello. Hello. Ooh. Does your nose do that? 411 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:18,080 Heh-heh. 412 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,976 As you can see, Clifford Norris is no threat to you, 413 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,760 or anyone else, for that matter. 414 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,976 He's living in a bedsit, pickling his liver on the dole. 415 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,400 He won't be buying many coppers with his giro, I promise you that. 416 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,416 I'm sorry. 417 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,176 I thought it over, but I've got her to think about, you know? 418 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,096 Louise, he's not a player any more. He can't hurt you, 419 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:54,256 but you could make a difference to the Lawrence family. 420 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,776 You could give them justice. But why me? 421 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,240 Everyone knows who done it. 422 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,680 I wanna help, but I can't. I'm sorry. 423 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,200 I was so sure she was gonna do the right thing. 424 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,776 I must be losing my touch. 425 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,536 It's the Eltham Omerta, isn't it? Here, got this in today. 426 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,056 Serious Organised Crime Agency. 427 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,216 Jamie Acourt's apparently a regular guest 428 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,336 in a drug wiretap they're running. 429 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:32,576 They're classing him as a high flight risk. 430 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,696 Bags packed, ready to go, they reckon. Christ. 431 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,896 Can we request surveillance? 432 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,800 They won't even pay for a bolt for the door. 433 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,976 If they're as connected as SOCA reckons, 434 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,920 it isn't just the flight risk. They could intimidate witnesses. 435 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:49,456 We limit case conferences. 436 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,576 Think about who actually needs to be there. 437 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,120 We can't afford another leak. 438 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,016 'I look around here today 439 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,496 'and see the Prime Minister, the Home Secretary, 440 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,176 'the Archbishop of Canterbury. 441 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,616 'It's an honour to see you all here, of course it is, 442 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,376 'but I wish you weren't here.' 443 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,216 I wish we didn't need to be here. But we do. 444 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,896 We have to keep Stephen's memory alive 445 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,640 because we still don't have justice. 446 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,016 For me, for my family, 447 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:03,480 the pain of our loss remains undiminished after 15 years. 448 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,976 The campaign for justice for Stephen continues, 449 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,336 as must the wider fight to combat racism, discrimination, 450 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,536 and prejudice. 451 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,320 Stephen was my benchmark. 452 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,256 I was always trying to reach his level and, annoying as it was, 453 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,576 I was never quite as good. 454 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,176 He's made me aspire to be the best person I can be, 455 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,656 and I can't thank him enough for that. 456 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,416 I loved my big brother. 457 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:50,536 He was killed by hate, but I believe that love is stronger than hate, 458 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:55,040 that, in the end, love will conquer hate. 459 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,280 OK. Yeah, I'll get him to call you. 460 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,656 Excuse me, I'll just get rid of this, if you don't mind. 461 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,880 Can't speak right now. You need to call forensics, ASAP. 462 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,736 It's Clive Driscoll. We've found Stephen's blood. 463 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,120 What? 464 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:34,576 You found it where? 465 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,200 We've found Stephen's blood on Gary Dobson's jacket. 466 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,280 Dear God. 467 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,856 Hello, Clive. Oh, Mrs I. 468 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,656 You look very smart. Well, I do try. 469 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,736 I, er, I have to say, it's an honour. 470 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,136 That was a beautiful service. 471 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,160 And the case? How's everything going? 472 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,680 Well, I mean, it's going well. Good. 473 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,176 There. You see that? 474 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,976 That discolouration there is the blood of Stephen Lawrence. 475 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,896 It's on the back of the collar, which fits. 476 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,856 When you stab someone, as you pull the knife back, 477 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,136 there's a little judder as you reach the end of the trajectory, 478 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,616 so any droplets of wet blood often hit the back of the clothing. 479 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,376 And the key thing here is that that isn't a flake. 480 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,096 It's saturated, stained into the fabric, 481 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,736 which means the blood was still wet when it landed there 482 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,416 during the attack. So this is A1, Rolls-Royce evidence? 483 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,800 Indeed. With a cherry on top. 484 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,016 Is it too good? How can evidence be too good? 485 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,816 As in, is it so good it should have been found a long time ago? 486 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,656 Amplified fragment length polymorphism forms of analysis 487 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,896 weren't available during earlier investigations. 488 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,800 We couldn't have confidently confirmed this was Stephen's blood. 489 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,096 Right, well, the only thing I understood there was. 490 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,376 "We couldn't have done this before", and that's all I need. 491 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,360 This is new and compelling evidence. 492 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,696 This is getting serious now, isn't it? 493 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,856 If we rely on forensics, we'd better be confident. 494 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,896 about the chain of custody. 495 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:29,936 Hello? 'DCI Driscoll?' Who's this? 496 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,176 'We're running a piece on the developments 497 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,256 'of the Stephen Lawrence case. Wondered if you wanted to comment. 498 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,760 'On or off, your call.' 499 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,256 I need to know your source. Course you do. 500 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,336 So, is it gonna be enough, then, this new DNA evidence? 501 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,880 You cannot run this story. We're dealing with flight risks. 502 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,400 You're serious? 503 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,096 Look, we got off on the wrong foot here. 504 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,896 You give me an angle that works for you. 505 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:08,656 All right, I've tried to appeal to your sense of civic duty. 506 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,936 How about this? 507 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,016 If you run this story, I'll hold a lovely big press conference, 508 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,176 with refreshments and everything, and I will name you personally 509 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,560 as having sabotaged the Stephen Lawrence murder investigation. 510 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,160 Afternoon. 511 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,176 Sorry to keep you waiting. Mark Ellison QC. 512 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,096 Is everyone here? Do we have our forensic people? 513 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,320 Er, yeah, that'll be Ed and Angela. 514 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,256 A lot seems to rest on the fact that this blood stain 515 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:49,896 was soaked into the fabric. 516 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,176 Well, yes. 517 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,336 The nature of the staining would suggest the blood was uncoagulated, 518 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:55,537 fresh, when it got there. 519 00:33:55,561 --> 00:33:58,896 These tests that you do to the clothing, 520 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,280 do any of them involve moisture? 521 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,416 Well, we did use the Phadebas Amylase test to detect saliva. 522 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,376 That does involve a dampened paper press test. 523 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:07,736 So if I was the defence, 524 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,016 I would be saying the blood stain was the result of contamination, 525 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,936 and only soaked into the weave of the fabric when it was dampened. 526 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,976 I think that's a highly improbable hypothesis. 527 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,736 If you say that on the stand, we've lost. 528 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,136 An improbable hypothesis is reasonable doubt. 529 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,496 If I may, with forensic evidence such as this, 530 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,456 we're dealing with degrees of probability. 531 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,096 No, not good enough. I need you to go away 532 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,696 and prove the absolute impossibility of this blood stain 533 00:34:31,720 --> 00:34:33,656 coming from any sequence of events, 534 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,320 other than the jacket being at the fatal attack. 535 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,096 Right. 536 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,080 Well, we'll, er, go back and review. Good. 537 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,496 Del? I thought that was you. Ha-ha! You all right, Jenny? 538 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,336 It's been years. Yeah. 539 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,256 You still with Trident? Er, no. No, I'm... I'm actually on 540 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,496 the Stephen Lawrence case, as it happens. 541 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,616 You? No way. Part of Doreen Lawrence's private police force. 542 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,496 What's that supposed to mean? 543 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,176 Come on, you must be pulling your hair out on that job. 544 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,616 I mean, it's not like anyone wants to face the actual truth 545 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,456 about Saint Stephen. 546 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,360 Which is what? 547 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,376 Well, it was a gang thing, wasn't it? 548 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,856 Stabbed with his own knife after he tried to rip off a dealer. 549 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,456 Everyone knows. 550 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,296 I tell you what, then, Jenny. 551 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,040 You send everyone across to us. We'll happily take their statements. 552 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,416 DC Derek Reid calling again. 553 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,536 I had a question about the tape seals. 554 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,760 You said they were checked every time, right? 555 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:35,656 So how was that recorded? 556 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,576 In 1998, you resealed a couple of our exhibits. Yeah. 557 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,416 Can you explain the deterioration on the packaging? 558 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,576 Just to clarify, you're saying that when the suspects' clothing 559 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,976 arrived in Eltham, 560 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,536 Stephen's clothing had already been sent off for analysis? 561 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,416 What date was that? 562 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,496 We've tracked every single exhibit since 1993. 563 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,576 We know where every item was at one time. 564 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,736 For example, LH/5, Dobson's jacket, 565 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,136 that was also handed over to Kent Police on 23rd of June 1997. 566 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,336 It remained sealed and in a cupboard with the other clothing exhibits. 567 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,936 Tricky, Tricky, this is all very comprehensive, very impressive, 568 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,496 but for now, what's the headline? 569 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,696 What are we looking at in terms of opportunities 570 00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:22,136 for cross-contamination? The headline is this. 571 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,296 The thing the first investigation took the biggest kicking for, 572 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,976 that two-week delay between the murder and the arrests? 573 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,136 Now it's our saving grace. You've lost me. 574 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,776 None of the suspects' clothing was seized and brought to the station 575 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,736 until 7th of May. 576 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,776 Stephen's exhibits were sent for forensic examination 577 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,336 a week before that. 578 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,016 Stephen's and the suspects' exhibits were never at the same station 579 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,536 at the same time. 580 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,536 So opportunities for cross-contamination 581 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,800 back in '93 were... Vanishingly small. 582 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,896 Clive, Duwayne is in the paper with the man running for mayor. 583 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,136 Boris? 584 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,056 'No, no, no, the other one. The Liberal.' 585 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,536 Ex-police officer. Duwayne campaigning for him. 586 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,936 Yeah, Brian Paddick. I remember him from my Brixton days. 587 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,080 Well, there you go, then. 588 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,280 Maybe he can put in a good word for you. 589 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,536 I really, really appreciate you making time, Mr Brooks. 590 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,056 Brian said you were one of the good guys. 591 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:26,680 That's the only reason why I'm here. 592 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,480 Thing is, we're making headway with Stephen's case. Really? 593 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,520 15 years of headway, and what do we have to show for it? 594 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:43,936 I'm sorry. We let you down. No, sorry, you didn't let me down. 595 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,976 You tried to stitch me up. OK? 596 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,976 You arrested me for protesting the murder of my friend 597 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,840 whilst his killers walked free. 598 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,976 I am sorry, Duwayne. 599 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,616 You were treated appallingly. 600 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:02,016 The thing is, I need your evidence to lock up the bastards 601 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,840 that killed your friend. I already gave my evidence. 602 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,736 I was a scared kid. 603 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,040 I knew that the Acourts could come after me, 604 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,576 but I still identified Neil Acourt and Luke Knight. 605 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,416 You were brave. You stood up for your friend. 606 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,160 But it didn't matter, though, did it? Because no-one believed me. 607 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,816 I did everything the police asked of me, 608 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,800 and they still acted like I was hiding something. 609 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,536 It was unfathomable to them that a Black man 610 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,160 could just be an innocent victim. 611 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,536 Look, I won't ask you to trust the police. Why should you? 612 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,176 But I am gonna charge these men. And when I do, 613 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,056 it will rest on forensics, cold, hard science. 614 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,696 There'll be a lot less wriggle room 615 00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:54,400 for anyone who doesn't want to see justice for Stephen. 616 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,376 So why do you need me? 617 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,680 Because forensics alone won't be enough. 618 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,360 You were there. You can bring it to life for them. 619 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,736 So, we made 12 attempts to reconstitute blood fragments 620 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,376 using Phadebas substrate. 621 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,376 Sorry, can you imagine that you're trying to explain this 622 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,496 to a five-year-old? Sorry. 623 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,856 We took tiny samples of Stephen's dried blood 624 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,736 and applied different liquids, but the samples became jelly-like. 625 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,576 The blood wouldn't have been able 626 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,416 to soak into the weave of the fabric, even if it was rehydrated. 627 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,736 So? My conclusion is Stephen's blood was fresh 628 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,480 when it soaked into the jacket. 629 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,896 Which means that Dobson's jacket must have been present 630 00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:03,616 at the murder scene. Yes. Well, that's music to my ears. 631 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,080 Let's hope that this is enough to get us over the line with the CPS. 632 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,896 Ah, Clive. 633 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,856 Detective Superintendent Jill Bailey will be joining us for the meeting. 634 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,776 All right? 635 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,096 Given the level of scrutiny the Met can expect going forward, 636 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,176 I thought your team would benefit from Jill's support 637 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,720 as reviewing superintendent. 638 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,456 I've never had a reviewing superintendent before. 639 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,776 Never heard of one, actually. 640 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,960 Yes, well, this is a unique case. 641 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,600 What will you be reviewing, ma'am? Me? 642 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,696 I hope I can provide some guidance when it comes to 643 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:02,240 the more politically delicate aspects of the case. 644 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,376 Over the past two years, 645 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,136 we have followed a series of significant evidential leads 646 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,576 in the investigation into Stephen's murder. 647 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,616 The Director of Public Prosecutions has now reviewed this evidence 648 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,696 and provided us with an update. 649 00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:42,096 Mr and Mrs Lawrence, Stuart, I won't beat about the bush. 650 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,056 The fact is, we have found Stephen's blood 651 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,176 on the jacket of one of the suspects. 652 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:48,776 We've also found hair, 653 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,816 clothing fibres belonging to Stephen on the clothing of several suspects. 654 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:58,696 As a result of this, the DPP has agreed that we can charge 655 00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:02,456 Gary Dobson and David Norris for Stephen's murder. 656 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,560 Hope to execute the arrests within the week. 657 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,017 I'm sorry. 658 00:42:16,041 --> 00:42:19,760 I know this has been a long road for your family. 659 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,120 I know this is good news, but... 660 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,336 Yes 661 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,800 we have waited a long time for this. 662 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,760 But that's two. There were five. 663 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:45,816 The forensic evidence against Dobson and Norris 664 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,736 is stronger than what we have against the other suspects. 665 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,336 The DPP doesn't want to endanger the stronger cases 666 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,376 in a joint prosecution. So they get away with it again. 667 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,736 No, no. We take down Dobson and Norris first, 668 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,816 but this is an on-going investigation. 669 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,880 I haven't forgotten about the others. 670 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,576 If there's a disparity in the evidence, 671 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,376 then separate prosecutions is sensible. 672 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,880 OK. If that's the best way forward, then I'm OK with that. 673 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,176 You know, when we first met, 674 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,840 you promised me you'd do your best for Stephen. 675 00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:28,760 Thank you for keeping that promise. 676 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:31,656 Well, thank you, both. 677 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:32,777 Er... 678 00:43:32,801 --> 00:43:35,160 I don't take the trust you've placed in us lightly. 679 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,696 You understand that following these arrests, 680 00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:43,976 there's likely to be renewed attention on your family. 681 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,000 We can deal with that. 682 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,840 We're ready. 56430

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