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1
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(dramatic music)
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- I'm going to work in Woolworths.
3
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- When I grow up, I
want to be an astronaut.
4
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- When I get married, I'd
like to have two children.
5
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- My heart's desire is to see my daddy.
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- I don't want to answer that.
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(kids screaming)
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- [Narrator] This is no
ordinary outing to the zoo.
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It's a very special occasion.
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We've brought these children together
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for the very first time.
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(kids screaming)
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They're like any other
children except that they come
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from startlingly different backgrounds.
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- Stop it at once!
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- [Narrator] We've brought
these children together
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because we wanted a glimpse
of England in the year 2000.
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The shop steward and the
executive of the year 2000
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are now seven years old.
20
00:01:01,401 --> 00:01:04,921
(dramatic music)
21
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- [Michael] In 1964, "World
in Action" made "Seven Up!"
22
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and we've been back to film these children
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every seven years.
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They are now 49.
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- Is it important to fight, yes.
26
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- [Michael] Tony was brought
up in the East End of London.
27
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- Wanna be a jockey when I grow up.
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Yeah, I wanna be a jockey when I grow up.
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- [Michael] At 14, he
was already an apprentice
30
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at Tommy Gosling's racing stable at Epsom.
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At 15, he'd left school.
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- [Tony] This is a photo
finish, when I rode at Newbury.
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I'm the one with the white cap.
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I was beaten a length and a half off third
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and I had a photo finish.
36
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- [Michael] Do you regret not making it?
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- Well I'd have given my right arm
38
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at the time to become a jockey but now,
39
00:02:08,361 --> 00:02:10,441
well, I wasn't good enough.
40
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- [Michael] What will you do
41
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if you don't make it as a jockey?
42
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- I don't know.
43
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If I know I couldn't be one,
I'd get out of the game.
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Wouldn't bother.
45
00:02:20,841 --> 00:02:23,521
- [Michael] What do you
think you would do then?
46
00:02:23,521 --> 00:02:24,801
- Learn on taxis.
47
00:02:27,201 --> 00:02:29,521
- [Michael] At 21, he was on the knowledge
48
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and by 28, he owned his own cab.
49
00:02:33,321 --> 00:02:36,281
- It's surprising who
you pick up, you see.
50
00:02:36,281 --> 00:02:39,401
I once met Kojak, I picked him up.
51
00:02:39,401 --> 00:02:42,761
And Warren Mitchell,
Alf Garnett, you know.
52
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- [Michael] Have you got a girlfriend?
53
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- No.
54
00:02:45,121 --> 00:02:47,601
- [Michael] Would you
like to have a girlfriend?
55
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- No.
56
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You understand four Fs?
57
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Find 'em, feed 'em and forget 'em.
58
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The other F, I'll let you
use your own discriminish.
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I mean, this one, I
tried to do the three Fs
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but I couldn't forget her.
61
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- I went to a discotheque.
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He was in the pub earlier on,
63
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and afterwards, we went to a discotheque
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and Tony was standing there.
65
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And I just, from there, I just,
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that was it.
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(chuckles)
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Couldn't get rid of him. (laughing)
69
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- We have our ups and downs,
no more than anyone else.
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00:03:24,961 --> 00:03:28,001
- I think you gotta work at a marriage.
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00:03:28,001 --> 00:03:31,001
I think all marriages go through stages.
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You can't stand each other.
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You go through, you know,
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I think, oh, god, I hate him.
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I wish he'd get out.
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I do.
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- We've been to the edge of the cliff
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and looked over a couple of times,
79
00:03:42,241 --> 00:03:46,121
and we've always seemed
to sort of go back,
80
00:03:46,121 --> 00:03:49,081
and we've sort of stayed the course.
81
00:03:49,081 --> 00:03:53,281
But I must say, I mean,
it's not easy being married.
82
00:03:53,281 --> 00:03:56,841
- [Michael] By 42, Tony and
Debbie had left the East End
83
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and moved to Woodford in Essex.
84
00:04:00,041 --> 00:04:01,521
- We were gonna put a conservatory here
85
00:04:01,521 --> 00:04:03,921
but if you look along here,
86
00:04:03,921 --> 00:04:07,241
we put a patio in and
the pond for the fish,
87
00:04:07,241 --> 00:04:08,601
but the only thing I ever done
88
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was I planted them three trees.
89
00:04:12,401 --> 00:04:13,961
Well, since you was last here, Michael,
90
00:04:13,961 --> 00:04:16,721
we had small trees, if you remember.
91
00:04:16,721 --> 00:04:19,561
Now, they've sort of grown a bit.
92
00:04:20,481 --> 00:04:22,641
- [Michael] So why are the trees singed?
93
00:04:22,641 --> 00:04:25,481
- We was burning some rubbish at the back
94
00:04:26,321 --> 00:04:28,601
and set light to the tree,
and there we all were,
95
00:04:28,601 --> 00:04:31,881
sort of like throwing all
buckets of water over it,
96
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and sadly enough, it singed the tree.
97
00:04:37,641 --> 00:04:39,921
(whirring)
98
00:04:49,201 --> 00:04:51,721
- [Michael] At 49, they've
taken out a second mortgage
99
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on the London house and sunk the money
100
00:04:54,161 --> 00:04:55,801
in a holiday home in Spain.
101
00:04:56,761 --> 00:04:57,961
- I'm very pleased with the house.
102
00:04:57,961 --> 00:05:00,561
I said the progress we made
in the little space of time
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that we've had to work here
104
00:05:02,281 --> 00:05:05,721
and get it all sort of shipshape,
I think is done, really,
105
00:05:05,721 --> 00:05:07,481
to the testament of my wife Debbie.
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- As per usual.
107
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- Well, Debbie went to the furniture shop,
108
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and she sort of picked all the furniture.
109
00:05:16,641 --> 00:05:19,961
All what you see is all
Debbie's choice of furniture
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and her, really, sort of style.
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The floor, we were led to believe
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that we had a choice of tiling,
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whether it's a light beige or light brown.
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- That's the first I've
heard that we had a choice
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'cause I would have had plain.
116
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- [Tony] Well, I've just gone
into the neighbours' house
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and they've got all plain.
118
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- Well, there you go.
119
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I never got told that.
- And I asked him
120
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and he said, "It was a choice that we had
121
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"when we suggested to buy it."
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So that was where the mistake was made.
123
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- [Debbie] Because you don't listen.
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- [Tony] Say that again.
125
00:05:48,161 --> 00:05:49,121
- You don't listen.
126
00:05:49,121 --> 00:05:51,801
- [Tony] Can't hear you. (laughing)
127
00:05:51,801 --> 00:05:55,401
- [Michael] Tony and Debbie
still work as London cabbies.
128
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- We sold our cabs
because we are gonna spend
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more time out here.
130
00:05:58,521 --> 00:06:01,081
So it's not really conducive
to own a cab, is it?
131
00:06:01,081 --> 00:06:01,921
- [Debbie] No.
132
00:06:01,921 --> 00:06:03,481
- Because the cab will
be left out on the drive
133
00:06:03,481 --> 00:06:05,801
or, you know, it's pointless,
134
00:06:05,801 --> 00:06:09,201
so we just hired a cab independently now.
135
00:06:10,081 --> 00:06:14,121
- I'm working harder now
than I really ever have done
136
00:06:14,121 --> 00:06:18,481
but I feel that it's for something.
137
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- Tell me, son,
138
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why do you wanna be a
cab driver for, mate?
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All the holidays in Spain every year
140
00:06:22,561 --> 00:06:24,161
but, son, it's hard work out there.
141
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- You're not reaching me yet.
142
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- Not getting to you.
143
00:06:26,001 --> 00:06:27,201
- No, you're not getting to me, all right?
144
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Now be bigger.
145
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Dominate me, all right?
146
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- Son--
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00:06:30,281 --> 00:06:32,921
- [Michael] At 28, Tony
was taking acting lessons.
148
00:06:32,921 --> 00:06:36,601
Now, he supplements his income
with occasional TV jobs.
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- [Tony] Oi!
150
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- That's all I got on me.
151
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- Mate, if I had a pound for
every time I've heard that,
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I'd be a rich man.
153
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Get him!
154
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(playful music)
155
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A guy contacted me from my agency,
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from my acting agency, and
I got in touch with him.
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And he writes plays
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and he's been inspired
by your up programmes,
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which go all round the
world, and he saw it.
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00:07:01,081 --> 00:07:05,881
And we got together and we
wrote a biographical play
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all about my life story.
162
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We took one of these
episodes over to New York
163
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and done it on a play reading.
164
00:07:12,321 --> 00:07:15,681
And I got up, playing the lead role
165
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and it just blew the roof off.
166
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And we're looking for
someone to pick it up
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and put it on stage.
168
00:07:23,761 --> 00:07:26,001
- [Teacher] Would everybody
please sit round now,
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get on with their work?
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I don't wanna see any backs to me.
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Shouldn't be anybody turning round.
172
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Tony, do you hear as well?
173
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Get on with your work at the front.
174
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Tony!
175
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Don't turn round again.
176
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- There's only one ambition,
and, really, I want a baby son.
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00:07:45,241 --> 00:07:48,081
If I see my baby son, that
will be my ambition fulfilled.
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No one knows that.
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Only you know.
180
00:07:51,561 --> 00:07:53,481
- [Michael] Debbie and
Tony have three children.
181
00:07:53,481 --> 00:07:54,321
Nicky.
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00:07:54,321 --> 00:07:55,121
- [Tony] Throw it in!
183
00:07:55,121 --> 00:07:57,441
- [Michael] Jody and Perri.
184
00:07:57,441 --> 00:07:59,361
(Tony laughing)
185
00:07:59,361 --> 00:08:00,721
- Nicky's doing quite well.
186
00:08:00,721 --> 00:08:02,681
He's still a French polisher.
187
00:08:02,681 --> 00:08:04,761
It's an old-time profession, as you know.
188
00:08:04,761 --> 00:08:07,481
And he's working for a firm,
189
00:08:07,481 --> 00:08:09,921
and he's very happy in his work, isn't he?
190
00:08:09,921 --> 00:08:13,801
- [Debbie] He's been brought
up very respectful to people,
191
00:08:13,801 --> 00:08:15,481
very well-mannered person,
192
00:08:15,481 --> 00:08:17,681
He's a hard worker.
193
00:08:17,681 --> 00:08:19,641
(people cheering)
194
00:08:19,641 --> 00:08:22,281
- Jody, I mean, at this present time,
195
00:08:22,281 --> 00:08:25,761
she's just relies on us a great deal
196
00:08:25,761 --> 00:08:29,921
and she's been very scarred
197
00:08:29,921 --> 00:08:32,561
with a relationship that she was in.
198
00:08:33,801 --> 00:08:36,401
Her relationship with her
first love of her own life
199
00:08:36,401 --> 00:08:40,681
was very turbulent, but
he's the father of her kid.
200
00:08:43,241 --> 00:08:46,481
We're gonna make sure she gets through it.
201
00:08:46,481 --> 00:08:49,081
And it's been quite a
strain on Debbie and I
202
00:08:49,081 --> 00:08:51,401
to see her in that sort of situation.
203
00:08:52,721 --> 00:08:54,961
- [Debbie] I'm very
proud of Perri as well.
204
00:08:54,961 --> 00:08:57,641
She got in the post office,
and that's what's she doing.
205
00:08:57,641 --> 00:09:00,521
Postman Pel, that's our postman Pel.
206
00:09:00,521 --> 00:09:01,361
She loves it.
207
00:09:01,361 --> 00:09:02,441
She works hard.
208
00:09:02,441 --> 00:09:03,361
She's up at four in the morning.
209
00:09:03,361 --> 00:09:04,881
- In the morning.
210
00:09:04,881 --> 00:09:06,561
She's got a lovely boyfriend.
211
00:09:06,561 --> 00:09:08,561
He loves her more than you can imagine,
212
00:09:08,561 --> 00:09:11,321
and he's certainly got my blessing.
213
00:09:11,321 --> 00:09:14,201
Big lad, very nice guy,
loves his football.
214
00:09:14,201 --> 00:09:16,241
You know, typical East End kid.
215
00:09:16,241 --> 00:09:17,081
Here you go.
216
00:09:18,521 --> 00:09:19,361
Aah!
217
00:09:19,361 --> 00:09:20,561
Head up, son.
218
00:09:20,561 --> 00:09:21,401
That's too quick.
219
00:09:21,401 --> 00:09:23,881
We are the backbone for
the kids, aren't we?
220
00:09:23,881 --> 00:09:26,561
- Yeah, but I think your
parents are anyway, you know.
221
00:09:26,561 --> 00:09:28,481
Your parents are...
222
00:09:28,481 --> 00:09:30,321
You never visualise anything
223
00:09:30,321 --> 00:09:32,161
ever happening to your parents, do you?
224
00:09:32,161 --> 00:09:35,561
You think they are forever.
225
00:09:35,561 --> 00:09:39,641
- Toni's five, Harry's four, nearly five,
226
00:09:39,641 --> 00:09:40,481
and little Pru,
227
00:09:40,481 --> 00:09:42,161
she's nearly two.
- Nearly two.
228
00:09:42,161 --> 00:09:43,001
- No, three.
229
00:09:43,001 --> 00:09:44,161
- She's three?
230
00:09:46,001 --> 00:09:47,401
I'm an hands-on granddad.
231
00:09:48,401 --> 00:09:51,241
I love my grandchildren
more than you can imagine,
232
00:09:51,241 --> 00:09:54,041
I'd say not my own kids,
but in a different way.
233
00:09:54,041 --> 00:09:56,001
It's an obsession of love, you know.
234
00:09:58,561 --> 00:10:02,321
- You see these grandchildren,
and they're part of you.
235
00:10:02,321 --> 00:10:03,961
- No, granddad.
236
00:10:03,961 --> 00:10:05,481
Don't empty that.
237
00:10:05,481 --> 00:10:07,441
- They're hard work at times.
238
00:10:07,441 --> 00:10:08,441
- We don't mind, though, Michael, I mean--
239
00:10:08,441 --> 00:10:10,561
- 'Cause you slow down
and you don't realise
240
00:10:10,561 --> 00:10:12,281
you're slowing down.
241
00:10:12,281 --> 00:10:14,401
- All I understand is dogs' prices,
242
00:10:14,401 --> 00:10:17,481
girls, knowledge, roads, streets, squares
243
00:10:17,481 --> 00:10:19,681
and mum and dad and love.
244
00:10:19,681 --> 00:10:22,721
That's all I understand,
that's all I wanna understand.
245
00:10:22,721 --> 00:10:24,561
- [Michael] By the time he was 34,
246
00:10:24,561 --> 00:10:26,441
both Tony's parents had died.
247
00:10:28,361 --> 00:10:29,201
- [Tony] I'm at the graveside,
248
00:10:29,201 --> 00:10:30,481
I'm talking to her, little things.
249
00:10:30,481 --> 00:10:33,321
I've got all images
running through me mind,
250
00:10:33,321 --> 00:10:36,401
sayin' like, "Tony, go
downstairs, get me fine weights,
251
00:10:36,401 --> 00:10:38,081
"one and a penny."
252
00:10:38,081 --> 00:10:39,841
And I used to go in the shop.
253
00:10:39,841 --> 00:10:42,481
She used to throw the
cotton in an hair curler
254
00:10:42,481 --> 00:10:44,441
over the landing,
255
00:10:44,441 --> 00:10:48,401
and I used to tie the cigarettes
on this bit of cotton.
256
00:10:48,401 --> 00:10:50,841
She used to pull 'em up, and she goes,
257
00:10:50,841 --> 00:10:52,121
see her in the end,
258
00:10:52,121 --> 00:10:52,961
"Thanks, Tone.
259
00:10:52,961 --> 00:10:54,961
"See you after school, be good."
260
00:10:54,961 --> 00:10:56,561
And that's the way it was.
261
00:10:57,561 --> 00:11:00,241
- We knew my dad was terminally ill,
262
00:11:00,241 --> 00:11:01,801
although having said that,
263
00:11:01,801 --> 00:11:04,561
still didn't make it any easier for us.
264
00:11:06,041 --> 00:11:08,041
When my dad died, I took it really hard.
265
00:11:10,161 --> 00:11:11,001
I can't.
266
00:11:16,041 --> 00:11:20,041
- Nellie Rose is my mum,
'cause her name is Nell,
267
00:11:20,041 --> 00:11:21,921
and her mother's name's Rose,
268
00:11:21,921 --> 00:11:25,481
so my Jody and all the family
269
00:11:25,481 --> 00:11:28,041
were conjuring up some
names that we could name it.
270
00:11:28,041 --> 00:11:30,721
Jody at the finish said, "Nellie Rose",
271
00:11:30,721 --> 00:11:31,921
the name of our mums.
272
00:11:32,961 --> 00:11:34,401
(children chattering)
273
00:11:34,401 --> 00:11:37,841
- Sometimes, on a Saturday
morning, I go to the pictures,
274
00:11:37,841 --> 00:11:41,761
sometimes with my friends
and sometimes with him.
275
00:11:41,761 --> 00:11:42,641
- You don't.
276
00:11:42,641 --> 00:11:43,481
- I do.
277
00:11:44,321 --> 00:11:45,681
- She don't.
278
00:11:45,681 --> 00:11:48,441
- [Michael] And why did
you fall in love with him?
279
00:11:48,441 --> 00:11:49,521
- Don't know.
280
00:11:50,521 --> 00:11:51,361
- I don't know how--
281
00:11:51,361 --> 00:11:52,201
- Don't know.
- You put up with me
282
00:11:52,201 --> 00:11:53,041
for so long.
283
00:11:53,041 --> 00:11:53,881
- I don't know how.
284
00:11:53,881 --> 00:11:55,761
Sometimes, I don't know how I stand him.
285
00:11:55,761 --> 00:11:57,641
Who's to say in another 10 years,
286
00:11:57,641 --> 00:11:59,401
me and him might have split up.
287
00:11:59,401 --> 00:12:01,321
- [Tony] Quite possible.
288
00:12:01,321 --> 00:12:02,201
- You don't know.
289
00:12:03,441 --> 00:12:06,321
- [Michael] When we filmed
Debbie and Tony at 42,
290
00:12:06,321 --> 00:12:08,161
the marriage seemed to be in trouble.
291
00:12:09,201 --> 00:12:11,641
- I'm not proud at all to say this
292
00:12:11,641 --> 00:12:13,561
but situations arise that
293
00:12:15,121 --> 00:12:20,121
I have had regretful behaviour
various times but through--
294
00:12:21,561 --> 00:12:24,721
- You got caught, and that was it.
295
00:12:24,721 --> 00:12:26,001
- That's, you know.
296
00:12:26,001 --> 00:12:28,161
I'm not lying about the fact.
297
00:12:28,161 --> 00:12:29,681
I mean, you could always cover it up
298
00:12:29,681 --> 00:12:34,481
and suggest other things but
it's true and let it be true.
299
00:12:34,481 --> 00:12:35,801
- [Michael] You caught him?
300
00:12:37,081 --> 00:12:37,961
- Yeah.
301
00:12:37,961 --> 00:12:39,121
- [Michael] What happened?
302
00:12:40,241 --> 00:12:42,801
- Well, it was touch and go
303
00:12:42,801 --> 00:12:46,521
whether we carried on from it or not.
304
00:12:46,521 --> 00:12:50,281
I did feel I wish things
that were said then
305
00:12:50,281 --> 00:12:51,801
was never said.
306
00:12:51,801 --> 00:12:54,961
I mean, Perri wouldn't go
to school for three weeks.
307
00:12:54,961 --> 00:12:56,481
She wouldn't go out the door.
308
00:12:56,481 --> 00:12:58,361
She was quite upset about it all
309
00:12:58,361 --> 00:13:01,641
and I think it was a big shock
310
00:13:01,641 --> 00:13:06,001
because you are their mum and dad.
311
00:13:06,001 --> 00:13:08,081
- They're tangerines, ain't they?
312
00:13:08,081 --> 00:13:09,401
We got on from there.
313
00:13:09,401 --> 00:13:11,001
It's sort of seven years down the line,
314
00:13:11,001 --> 00:13:12,921
and we are happy as can be now.
315
00:13:12,921 --> 00:13:15,201
(laughing)
316
00:13:15,201 --> 00:13:16,641
- Karen told me to get me knickers here.
317
00:13:16,641 --> 00:13:19,241
She said they're better
than Marks & Spencer's.
318
00:13:19,241 --> 00:13:20,561
(laughing)
319
00:13:20,561 --> 00:13:22,561
- [Tony] Well, let's hope
they're easy to get off.
320
00:13:23,801 --> 00:13:24,641
- [Man] Hello!
321
00:13:24,641 --> 00:13:27,241
- There's 96% English here
322
00:13:27,241 --> 00:13:30,321
who bought all their houses in Spain,
323
00:13:30,321 --> 00:13:32,361
and this is where they
shop every Saturday.
324
00:13:33,241 --> 00:13:35,041
It's just like an old
Petticoat Lane Market,
325
00:13:35,041 --> 00:13:36,561
sort of years ago.
326
00:13:36,561 --> 00:13:38,601
How much are they, darling?
327
00:13:38,601 --> 00:13:40,681
(speaking in foreign language)
328
00:13:40,681 --> 00:13:42,041
What I like is so relaxing
down here, Michael.
329
00:13:42,041 --> 00:13:44,521
You just walk along, and
things are happening,
330
00:13:44,521 --> 00:13:46,001
the music's playing.
331
00:13:46,001 --> 00:13:48,561
There's an English pub
there you can just go in,
332
00:13:48,561 --> 00:13:51,521
and it's really home from
home but with the weather.
333
00:13:52,681 --> 00:13:55,881
(mellow music)
334
00:13:55,881 --> 00:13:59,721
From here, it's about 200 yards along.
335
00:13:59,721 --> 00:14:02,241
There's gonna be all
commercial units here.
336
00:14:02,241 --> 00:14:05,521
My intentions would be to
turn one of these units
337
00:14:05,521 --> 00:14:06,561
into a sports bar.
338
00:14:07,521 --> 00:14:10,401
We're putting all tellies
round in a sports sort of way,
339
00:14:10,401 --> 00:14:12,841
football shirts and all that memorabilia.
340
00:14:14,801 --> 00:14:15,961
This is tomorrow for me.
341
00:14:15,961 --> 00:14:18,081
This is my future here.
342
00:14:18,081 --> 00:14:19,641
If I happen to get some sort of business
343
00:14:19,641 --> 00:14:22,481
and I was to bring my Nicky
344
00:14:22,481 --> 00:14:24,761
or bring my Jody and my Perri out here,
345
00:14:25,641 --> 00:14:27,081
then I'll have the best of both worlds.
346
00:14:27,081 --> 00:14:28,481
I'll have my family here,
347
00:14:28,481 --> 00:14:30,161
plus, the kids could be schooled.
348
00:14:31,241 --> 00:14:33,881
Well, they can get what
they want, can't they?
349
00:14:33,881 --> 00:14:36,121
If you have got to work for it,
350
00:14:36,121 --> 00:14:38,441
and it's them who can just
ask for money and get it,
351
00:14:38,441 --> 00:14:40,561
and they can buy what they want.
352
00:14:40,561 --> 00:14:44,721
I feel that the economy
will bust within five years
353
00:14:44,721 --> 00:14:46,321
because people like myself
354
00:14:46,321 --> 00:14:49,201
have been giving and giving all the time.
355
00:14:49,201 --> 00:14:50,961
We're hardworking, family type of people
356
00:14:50,961 --> 00:14:53,041
who have contributed everything
357
00:14:53,041 --> 00:14:54,961
under this Tony Blair's government.
358
00:14:54,961 --> 00:14:57,561
We have to work, we have
to maintain the mortgage,
359
00:14:57,561 --> 00:14:59,881
we have to bring up the families,
360
00:14:59,881 --> 00:15:01,481
and I feel that I've had enough.
361
00:15:01,481 --> 00:15:04,201
I've had enough of
working all these hours.
362
00:15:04,201 --> 00:15:06,681
Congestion charges, 40 pound a week now.
363
00:15:06,681 --> 00:15:10,321
Zero tolerance with the
police with parking tickets.
364
00:15:10,321 --> 00:15:12,041
We're paying.
365
00:15:12,041 --> 00:15:15,161
Now someone's gettin' it at our expense.
366
00:15:15,161 --> 00:15:16,801
(spectators cheering)
367
00:15:16,801 --> 00:15:17,641
- [Michael] Does it make you sad
368
00:15:17,641 --> 00:15:20,241
that you're gonna have to
leave your roots, your country?
369
00:15:20,241 --> 00:15:23,121
- I can't even go out in the
East End now to have a drink.
370
00:15:23,121 --> 00:15:26,601
The pubs are literally closing down.
371
00:15:26,601 --> 00:15:30,321
It's other cultures are buyin'
all my old tradition up.
372
00:15:31,201 --> 00:15:33,481
Everyone likes their own culture,
373
00:15:33,481 --> 00:15:36,081
and I'm no different from anybody else,
374
00:15:36,081 --> 00:15:38,961
but being in England, if you suggest this,
375
00:15:38,961 --> 00:15:42,561
you are targeted as an oddball.
376
00:15:42,561 --> 00:15:44,161
Oh, you mustn't say that.
377
00:15:44,161 --> 00:15:46,161
Safety by numbers, eh, is
that what they call it?
378
00:15:46,161 --> 00:15:47,001
- [Woman] Definitely.
379
00:15:47,001 --> 00:15:48,801
- On the contrary, I would say, I'm sorry.
380
00:15:48,801 --> 00:15:51,521
If you don't like it,
it's not to be offensive,
381
00:15:51,521 --> 00:15:52,441
it's just to let you know
382
00:15:52,441 --> 00:15:57,001
that my way of being brought
up was all my own people,
383
00:15:57,001 --> 00:15:58,481
and I like being with me own people,
384
00:15:58,481 --> 00:15:59,761
and I'm a traditionalist.
385
00:16:00,801 --> 00:16:02,761
How much do you want play for, fiver?
386
00:16:03,801 --> 00:16:04,961
- 10 pesetas.
387
00:16:06,281 --> 00:16:07,481
Whoa!
388
00:16:07,481 --> 00:16:08,721
- [Michael] What's the dream now?
389
00:16:08,721 --> 00:16:11,361
- It is to be happy, which I am.
390
00:16:11,361 --> 00:16:14,881
I am happy now, being
healthy with all my family.
391
00:16:14,881 --> 00:16:16,641
We all want happy and
health for our family.
392
00:16:16,641 --> 00:16:18,681
Anything else will be a bonus.
393
00:16:18,681 --> 00:16:20,121
And that's all I really want.
394
00:16:20,121 --> 00:16:21,441
And that's all I'm really after.
395
00:16:21,441 --> 00:16:23,321
I don't want no more or less than that.
396
00:16:23,321 --> 00:16:24,881
Oh.
397
00:16:24,881 --> 00:16:25,721
Unlucky Tony.
398
00:16:25,721 --> 00:16:27,401
- Unlucky.
- Unlucky.
399
00:16:32,081 --> 00:16:35,001
(mellow music)
400
00:16:35,001 --> 00:16:38,841
- Some people from Africa
come here but they,
401
00:16:38,841 --> 00:16:42,161
when they go, they put their clothes on.
402
00:16:43,121 --> 00:16:44,841
- [Michael] Jackie, Lynn and Sue
403
00:16:45,681 --> 00:16:47,481
all grew up in the East End of London
404
00:16:47,481 --> 00:16:49,921
and were friends in
the same junior school.
405
00:16:50,841 --> 00:16:54,081
- With this school, we do
metalwork and woodwork,
406
00:16:54,081 --> 00:16:55,641
and the boys do cookery.
407
00:16:55,641 --> 00:17:00,641
- We had a teacher at school
that his favourite ploy was,
408
00:17:01,521 --> 00:17:04,121
"All you girls want to do is walk out,
409
00:17:04,121 --> 00:17:05,481
"get married, have babies
410
00:17:05,481 --> 00:17:07,041
"and push a pram down the street
411
00:17:07,041 --> 00:17:09,921
"with a fag hanging outside your mouth."
412
00:17:09,921 --> 00:17:12,001
- I think that we all could have gone
413
00:17:12,001 --> 00:17:14,201
any way that we wanted to at the time
414
00:17:14,201 --> 00:17:15,961
within our capabilities.
415
00:17:15,961 --> 00:17:19,921
I mean, we just we chose our own jobs.
416
00:17:19,921 --> 00:17:21,681
But we only had a limited choice anyway.
417
00:17:21,681 --> 00:17:23,561
I mean, truth be told, I mean we--
418
00:17:23,561 --> 00:17:24,401
- Yes, we did have
419
00:17:24,401 --> 00:17:25,241
a limited choice.
- We didn't have a choice
420
00:17:25,241 --> 00:17:26,081
of private education
421
00:17:26,081 --> 00:17:27,881
because they couldn't
have afforded it anyway.
422
00:17:27,881 --> 00:17:29,961
- Change is too much, Mike.
423
00:17:29,961 --> 00:17:34,321
Our lives are changing
far too much, all of us.
424
00:17:34,321 --> 00:17:35,161
- Well, to be honest,
425
00:17:35,161 --> 00:17:37,441
when you look at the seven-year-old us,
426
00:17:37,441 --> 00:17:39,481
it's difficult to believe it is us.
427
00:17:39,481 --> 00:17:42,121
I mean, it's like it's someone
else you're looking at,
428
00:17:42,121 --> 00:17:44,881
this little cute thing.
429
00:17:44,881 --> 00:17:46,041
I mean, I can't remember being--
430
00:17:46,041 --> 00:17:47,241
- Well, I wasn't cute.
431
00:17:47,241 --> 00:17:49,961
I would like to get
married when I grow up.
432
00:17:51,321 --> 00:17:53,281
Well, I don't know what sort of boy
433
00:17:53,281 --> 00:17:55,841
but I think one that.
434
00:17:56,801 --> 00:17:57,961
- [Girl] Oh, no.
435
00:17:57,961 --> 00:18:01,001
- So, that's not got a lot of money
436
00:18:01,001 --> 00:18:05,281
but he has got some money, not a lot.
437
00:18:05,281 --> 00:18:07,001
- [Michael] Have you got any boyfriends?
438
00:18:07,841 --> 00:18:10,121
(giggling)
439
00:18:11,481 --> 00:18:12,721
- That's personal, innit?
440
00:18:15,201 --> 00:18:18,801
- [Michael] By the time she
was 21, Jackie had married Mick
441
00:18:18,801 --> 00:18:21,481
and moved to the outskirts of London.
442
00:18:21,481 --> 00:18:22,721
- It was horrific, really,
443
00:18:22,721 --> 00:18:24,521
what happened to the wedding cake.
444
00:18:24,521 --> 00:18:27,561
I mean, it was sitting right
in between Mick and myself
445
00:18:28,561 --> 00:18:30,921
when suddenly, the columns
just completely gave way
446
00:18:30,921 --> 00:18:33,041
and it just all sort of fell into one.
447
00:18:33,921 --> 00:18:37,921
I would say on average,
19 is probably too young.
448
00:18:40,561 --> 00:18:42,681
- [Michael] By 35, she was divorced.
449
00:18:43,641 --> 00:18:47,601
- We decided ourselves, I mean
just between the two of us,
450
00:18:47,601 --> 00:18:49,521
we knew it wasn't going any further.
451
00:18:51,241 --> 00:18:53,881
We both knew, I think,
that at the end of the day,
452
00:18:53,881 --> 00:18:55,561
we would be happier leading our own lives.
453
00:18:55,561 --> 00:18:56,881
Hey, Jackie.
454
00:18:56,881 --> 00:18:59,121
- [Michael] She and Mick
had decided early on
455
00:18:59,121 --> 00:18:59,961
that they didn't want children.
456
00:18:59,961 --> 00:19:01,321
- Sometimes feel like really sick.
457
00:19:01,321 --> 00:19:05,361
- Basically, I would say
because I'm far too selfish.
458
00:19:05,361 --> 00:19:09,321
I enjoy doing what I want
when I want and how I want,
459
00:19:09,321 --> 00:19:11,881
and certainly at the moment,
460
00:19:11,881 --> 00:19:16,041
I can't see any way around that.
461
00:19:17,041 --> 00:19:17,881
Oh.
462
00:19:19,921 --> 00:19:21,881
And this one on.
463
00:19:21,881 --> 00:19:23,321
Here we go.
464
00:19:23,321 --> 00:19:24,641
Oh, yeah.
465
00:19:24,641 --> 00:19:28,321
Had a brief but very sweet relationship,
466
00:19:28,321 --> 00:19:30,561
the result of which was Charlie.
467
00:19:30,561 --> 00:19:32,441
Oi, give us a cuddle.
468
00:19:32,441 --> 00:19:34,881
I don't really want Charlie to be an only.
469
00:19:34,881 --> 00:19:37,081
I'd love him to have brothers and sisters,
470
00:19:37,081 --> 00:19:38,801
but not necessarily loads of 'em.
471
00:19:38,801 --> 00:19:41,881
Just, you know, one would do, actually.
472
00:19:41,881 --> 00:19:43,401
Right, Charlie, there's yours.
473
00:19:46,321 --> 00:19:47,761
And please eat it all up.
474
00:19:47,761 --> 00:19:49,041
- [Charlie] Oh.
475
00:19:50,081 --> 00:19:51,481
- And James.
476
00:19:51,481 --> 00:19:52,441
- [James] Thanks, mum.
477
00:19:52,441 --> 00:19:54,121
- Good boy.
478
00:19:54,121 --> 00:19:55,761
And last but not least.
479
00:19:58,881 --> 00:20:00,281
Gonna eat that one for me?
480
00:20:00,281 --> 00:20:01,481
- [Michael] After her relationship
481
00:20:01,481 --> 00:20:04,561
with Charlie's father ended, she met Ian,
482
00:20:04,561 --> 00:20:07,281
and they moved to Scotland
and had two more sons.
483
00:20:09,401 --> 00:20:10,201
- James.
484
00:20:10,201 --> 00:20:11,041
- [James] All right.
485
00:20:11,041 --> 00:20:13,121
- [Michael] By 42, they had split up.
486
00:20:13,121 --> 00:20:13,961
- [Ian] Lee.
487
00:20:18,361 --> 00:20:19,361
- Go on, Lee, go and get 'em.
488
00:20:21,161 --> 00:20:23,441
- [Michael] At 49, despite the split,
489
00:20:23,441 --> 00:20:25,961
the family all live in
the same area of Scotland.
490
00:20:28,121 --> 00:20:29,881
- There's your dad!
491
00:20:29,881 --> 00:20:32,641
Lee and Charlie's birthdays
are only a month apart,
492
00:20:32,641 --> 00:20:34,321
so we tend to do something in between
493
00:20:34,321 --> 00:20:36,961
so that we celebrate both their birthdays.
494
00:20:36,961 --> 00:20:39,601
So we usually go somewhere
like amusement park.
495
00:20:42,561 --> 00:20:45,201
- [Michael] That Lee's got
a lot of nerve, hasn't he?
496
00:20:45,201 --> 00:20:46,601
- [Jackie] And a little
bit of bravado, I think.
497
00:20:46,601 --> 00:20:49,361
Because his older brothers had said no,
498
00:20:49,361 --> 00:20:51,521
I think he decided, I'm gonna do this one.
499
00:20:52,401 --> 00:20:54,921
- Yeah! (laughing)
500
00:20:54,921 --> 00:20:55,761
Whoo!
501
00:20:55,761 --> 00:20:58,921
- [Michael] Has Charlie shown
any interest as to his father?
502
00:20:58,921 --> 00:20:59,761
- No.
503
00:21:01,481 --> 00:21:04,401
Ian's his father as far as he's concerned.
504
00:21:04,401 --> 00:21:06,001
He knows and the other boy knows,
505
00:21:06,001 --> 00:21:09,561
the whole family know that
biologically, he's not,
506
00:21:10,401 --> 00:21:13,961
but in every respect, Ian is his father,
507
00:21:13,961 --> 00:21:14,801
always has been.
508
00:21:15,721 --> 00:21:19,161
He just done everything with
him, been everything to him,
509
00:21:19,161 --> 00:21:20,801
taught him everything.
510
00:21:22,721 --> 00:21:23,641
- What would you do
511
00:21:23,641 --> 00:21:26,881
if you had lots of
money, about two pounds?
512
00:21:26,881 --> 00:21:29,761
- I would buy meself a new nice house,
513
00:21:29,761 --> 00:21:34,721
you know, one that's all nice and comfy.
514
00:21:34,721 --> 00:21:36,641
- [Liz] Oh, quite like that.
515
00:21:36,641 --> 00:21:39,241
- [Michael] Jackie suffers
from rheumatoid arthritis
516
00:21:39,241 --> 00:21:41,601
and lives off disability benefit.
517
00:21:41,601 --> 00:21:43,241
How is money for you?
518
00:21:43,241 --> 00:21:46,521
- Could do with more, as just
about everybody would say,
519
00:21:47,721 --> 00:21:48,561
but we manage.
520
00:21:48,561 --> 00:21:50,961
We cut our cloth accordingly.
521
00:21:50,961 --> 00:21:54,121
You've got X amount,
and that's what you do.
522
00:21:54,121 --> 00:21:55,201
I can imagine you in that.
523
00:21:55,201 --> 00:21:58,561
- [Michael] Has Liz got
anything to do with that?
524
00:21:58,561 --> 00:22:01,201
- Liz has always got
something to do with that.
525
00:22:02,241 --> 00:22:05,681
Ian's her son, but she
also says that I'm here
526
00:22:05,681 --> 00:22:07,561
and she's got three grandchildren here
527
00:22:08,481 --> 00:22:12,921
that she loves dearly, and
she will be there for us.
528
00:22:13,801 --> 00:22:18,361
James has just had a trip to
Alton Towers with the school.
529
00:22:18,361 --> 00:22:20,161
Then suddenly, she'll say,
530
00:22:20,161 --> 00:22:22,481
"You pay the trip, I'll give
him his spending money",
531
00:22:22,481 --> 00:22:25,841
Which is brilliant because it
just makes life easier for me.
532
00:22:27,481 --> 00:22:29,081
- [Michael] Now, you've moved
in the last seven years.
533
00:22:29,081 --> 00:22:30,401
Tell me about that.
534
00:22:30,401 --> 00:22:32,481
- Because of the arthritis that I've got,
535
00:22:32,481 --> 00:22:34,521
I needed to come to the ground floor.
536
00:22:36,161 --> 00:22:38,121
And this particular area that I'm in now
537
00:22:38,121 --> 00:22:39,281
is an area that I like.
538
00:22:39,281 --> 00:22:42,241
It's close to Liz, my mother-in-law,
539
00:22:42,241 --> 00:22:46,081
so from that point of view, it suits.
540
00:22:46,081 --> 00:22:50,201
The school's across the road
for the boys, good neighbours,
541
00:22:50,201 --> 00:22:52,801
which makes a difference
wherever your property is.
542
00:22:54,201 --> 00:22:57,281
It's how the East End used
to be about 30 years ago.
543
00:22:57,281 --> 00:22:58,201
Doors used to be open,
544
00:22:58,201 --> 00:23:00,441
the neighbours all watched for each other.
545
00:23:00,441 --> 00:23:01,281
If one neighbour had a problem,
546
00:23:01,281 --> 00:23:02,161
the other neighbours helped out.
547
00:23:02,161 --> 00:23:03,801
That's how it is here.
548
00:23:04,761 --> 00:23:07,481
That's what this place is
like, it's like a village.
549
00:23:07,481 --> 00:23:08,961
- 80, 85, 90--
550
00:23:08,961 --> 00:23:10,521
- We deal with the problems with the boys
551
00:23:10,521 --> 00:23:12,041
as and when they arise.
552
00:23:12,041 --> 00:23:14,121
I mean, you've always
got the problem of drink
553
00:23:14,121 --> 00:23:17,641
and drugs and smoking and not smoking
554
00:23:17,641 --> 00:23:20,641
and that sort of thing.
555
00:23:20,641 --> 00:23:24,641
I mean, Charlie's of an age
now where I can't mother him
556
00:23:24,641 --> 00:23:26,361
but I can't be his friend, either.
557
00:23:28,401 --> 00:23:30,481
He wants to work, he
wants to leave school,
558
00:23:30,481 --> 00:23:33,961
and he wants to get an
apprenticeship to car mechanics
559
00:23:33,961 --> 00:23:37,481
but the chances of him doing
that are probably very slim.
560
00:23:37,481 --> 00:23:40,081
- Hey, some--
- Lee, take your time, babe.
561
00:23:40,081 --> 00:23:41,201
You'll make yourself ill.
562
00:23:41,201 --> 00:23:42,481
- [Lee] Don't care.
563
00:23:42,481 --> 00:23:45,201
- James tends to be a
bit of a computer freak.
564
00:23:46,281 --> 00:23:51,281
He wants to produce
and make his own games.
565
00:23:51,441 --> 00:23:53,201
- [Lee] That looks just
like your brain, mush.
566
00:23:53,201 --> 00:23:56,081
- Lee tends to be, like, the outspoken one
567
00:23:56,081 --> 00:23:58,641
and a bit like I was at his age, really.
568
00:23:59,601 --> 00:24:02,081
In fact, he's very much
like I was at his age.
569
00:24:02,081 --> 00:24:03,481
- [Michael] Is that a worry?
570
00:24:06,081 --> 00:24:07,561
- I think that's terrible.
571
00:24:07,561 --> 00:24:09,521
How dare you say that to me?
572
00:24:09,521 --> 00:24:10,481
Is that a worry?
573
00:24:10,481 --> 00:24:12,081
Why would that be a worry?
574
00:24:12,081 --> 00:24:13,881
Do you think I've turned out badly?
575
00:24:13,881 --> 00:24:15,641
- [Michael] No, but sometimes
when you look at yourself,
576
00:24:15,641 --> 00:24:17,161
you don't always see things
you like in yourself,
577
00:24:17,161 --> 00:24:19,721
and then you see them in
your child and you think--
578
00:24:19,721 --> 00:24:23,201
- Yeah, but I never said he'd
picked up all of my traits.
579
00:24:23,201 --> 00:24:26,321
I actually think he's
picked up probably the best.
580
00:24:26,321 --> 00:24:27,441
(grunting)
581
00:24:27,441 --> 00:24:28,721
If you're not gonna play nicely,
582
00:24:28,721 --> 00:24:29,921
right, go to bed, then.
583
00:24:29,921 --> 00:24:30,721
- No!
584
00:24:30,721 --> 00:24:34,921
- He has a temper that isn't
as bad as when he was younger,
585
00:24:34,921 --> 00:24:37,601
but it is something that he knows about
586
00:24:37,601 --> 00:24:40,801
and he tries very hard to control.
587
00:24:40,801 --> 00:24:43,081
- [Michael] Does your
temper get you into trouble?
588
00:24:44,801 --> 00:24:47,401
- You're probably the best
one to answer that, does it?
589
00:24:48,601 --> 00:24:52,041
I mean, you and I have had
arguments on occasions.
590
00:24:52,041 --> 00:24:53,121
- [Michael] Did you meet enough men
591
00:24:53,121 --> 00:24:55,481
before you decided who to marry?
592
00:24:55,481 --> 00:24:57,961
- I mean, what do you mean by settle down?
593
00:24:57,961 --> 00:25:01,001
I mean, if you think that getting married,
594
00:25:01,001 --> 00:25:03,161
as far as we're concerned,
is a case of going to work,
595
00:25:03,161 --> 00:25:05,241
come home, cook tea for
hubby, going to bed,
596
00:25:05,241 --> 00:25:09,161
getting up, going to work,
you're totally mistaken.
597
00:25:09,161 --> 00:25:10,001
The whole thing you--
598
00:25:10,001 --> 00:25:11,321
- [Michael] I like it
when you shout at me.
599
00:25:11,321 --> 00:25:13,721
- I'm not sure you do, really.
600
00:25:13,721 --> 00:25:14,961
I mean I don't know.
601
00:25:14,961 --> 00:25:16,281
What happened at 21?
602
00:25:17,721 --> 00:25:21,001
You asked me if I'd had
enough experience with men
603
00:25:21,001 --> 00:25:23,041
before I got married,
604
00:25:23,041 --> 00:25:25,441
and I thought that was
actually an insulting question,
605
00:25:25,441 --> 00:25:27,561
and I got very angry,
606
00:25:27,561 --> 00:25:30,561
and we actually stopped
filming because of it.
607
00:25:30,561 --> 00:25:33,041
And if you look at the tapes of me at 21,
608
00:25:33,041 --> 00:25:35,681
I am sitting, and to all
intents and purposes,
609
00:25:35,681 --> 00:25:37,561
I might as well have not been there.
610
00:25:39,401 --> 00:25:43,881
But I was really angry that
you even thought you could get,
611
00:25:43,881 --> 00:25:45,281
you wouldn't have asked
612
00:25:45,281 --> 00:25:48,041
some of the other people in
this programme that question.
613
00:25:49,561 --> 00:25:53,041
You will edit this
programme as you see fit.
614
00:25:53,041 --> 00:25:54,841
I've got no control over that.
615
00:25:55,801 --> 00:25:59,001
You definitely come across
as this is your idea
616
00:25:59,001 --> 00:26:02,401
of what you want to do and how you see us,
617
00:26:02,401 --> 00:26:05,121
and that's how you portray us.
618
00:26:05,121 --> 00:26:08,561
This one maybe, maybe the
first one that's about us
619
00:26:08,561 --> 00:26:10,641
rather than about your perception of us.
620
00:26:10,641 --> 00:26:13,761
- [Michael] So how up to
now have I got you wrong?
621
00:26:13,761 --> 00:26:15,161
- How have you got me wrong?
622
00:26:16,601 --> 00:26:18,561
The last one was very much based on
623
00:26:20,081 --> 00:26:23,681
the sympathy and the illness that I've got
624
00:26:23,681 --> 00:26:27,441
and what I may or may not be able to do.
625
00:26:27,441 --> 00:26:30,521
It should have been about what I can do,
626
00:26:30,521 --> 00:26:34,841
what I am doing, what I will do.
627
00:26:34,841 --> 00:26:36,361
Don't make that mistake, Mike.
628
00:26:36,361 --> 00:26:37,841
I am no way,
629
00:26:37,841 --> 00:26:41,481
I am down and I am
depressed about my illness,
630
00:26:41,481 --> 00:26:44,601
but I'm certainly not down
and depressed about my life.
631
00:26:44,601 --> 00:26:45,441
And there are a lot of the times
632
00:26:45,441 --> 00:26:49,081
that I sit and I cringe when
I watch those programmes,
633
00:26:49,081 --> 00:26:52,081
not just for me, but for other people.
634
00:26:53,241 --> 00:26:55,561
You can ask me about Ian,
and you know full well
635
00:26:55,561 --> 00:26:57,761
I'm gonna say to you it's
none of your business,
636
00:26:57,761 --> 00:26:59,641
I'm not talking about it.
637
00:26:59,641 --> 00:27:01,801
Now, there are people in this
programme that don't do that,
638
00:27:01,801 --> 00:27:03,881
that quite of their own free will,
639
00:27:03,881 --> 00:27:07,801
will talk about their
marriages or their divorces
640
00:27:07,801 --> 00:27:09,961
or the state of their lives
641
00:27:09,961 --> 00:27:11,481
but I don't think you should be into that.
642
00:27:11,481 --> 00:27:14,161
I don't think you should
even be asking that.
643
00:27:14,161 --> 00:27:15,481
- [Michael] It's part of people's lives,
644
00:27:15,481 --> 00:27:17,561
and this programme is
about people's lives.
645
00:27:18,801 --> 00:27:20,561
- Yeah, but that's,
646
00:27:20,561 --> 00:27:22,121
see, to me, that's a part of my life
647
00:27:22,121 --> 00:27:23,961
that will never go on this programme.
648
00:27:23,961 --> 00:27:27,681
You know I'd married, my
ex-husband never took part in this.
649
00:27:27,681 --> 00:27:30,081
My partner now will
never take part in this.
650
00:27:30,081 --> 00:27:31,161
- [Michael] But that's not my fault.
651
00:27:31,161 --> 00:27:34,401
- No, but that's because
that's the way I want it.
652
00:27:34,401 --> 00:27:36,721
But it still doesn't stop you
653
00:27:36,721 --> 00:27:38,721
trying to get that information from me.
654
00:27:41,321 --> 00:27:42,961
- [Michael] So what would
you like to talk about
655
00:27:42,961 --> 00:27:44,201
if you want me to represent you?
656
00:27:44,201 --> 00:27:46,801
We've talked a bit about the children.
657
00:27:46,801 --> 00:27:48,721
- What I want to do.
658
00:27:48,721 --> 00:27:49,841
What I hope to do.
659
00:27:53,121 --> 00:27:57,001
I just don't want that
personal conversation.
660
00:27:57,001 --> 00:27:58,161
- [Michael] Okay, well,
let's talk about that,
661
00:27:58,161 --> 00:28:00,721
what you hope to do and
what you hope for the boys.
662
00:28:01,681 --> 00:28:03,321
- What I hope to do.
663
00:28:05,241 --> 00:28:09,641
I'd like to go back to school
664
00:28:11,961 --> 00:28:14,881
so that I can hold a conversation
with anybody in the world
665
00:28:14,881 --> 00:28:17,321
and know what I'm talking about.
666
00:28:17,321 --> 00:28:20,441
So that I'm not stuck, I
know a little bit about that
667
00:28:20,441 --> 00:28:22,241
but I don't really know enough.
668
00:28:22,241 --> 00:28:23,401
I'd love to know...
669
00:28:24,561 --> 00:28:26,601
Actually, I'd really love
to start my education
670
00:28:26,601 --> 00:28:27,441
all over again.
671
00:28:28,281 --> 00:28:30,641
My mum, 'cause she got five girls,
672
00:28:30,641 --> 00:28:33,961
she had seven years' bad luck
673
00:28:33,961 --> 00:28:36,161
that's why she's got five girls.
674
00:28:36,161 --> 00:28:39,561
I'd like to be able to
have a happy family.
675
00:28:39,561 --> 00:28:41,481
I mean, I know that it's not possible
676
00:28:41,481 --> 00:28:43,521
to be happy all the time,
677
00:28:43,521 --> 00:28:45,881
but as much of the time
that it was possible.
678
00:28:45,881 --> 00:28:47,241
I don't know what Suzy's had.
679
00:28:47,241 --> 00:28:49,841
What's Suzy had that I haven't had?
680
00:28:49,841 --> 00:28:50,721
I mean, until I know that--
681
00:28:50,721 --> 00:28:52,161
- [Michael] Are you different
682
00:28:52,161 --> 00:28:54,241
from what I should have expected
683
00:28:54,241 --> 00:28:56,681
at seven and 14 and 21?
684
00:28:56,681 --> 00:28:58,481
- Maybe not enough, but I've got it.
685
00:28:58,481 --> 00:29:00,041
I think I'm actually more intelligent
686
00:29:00,041 --> 00:29:02,081
than you thought I would be.
687
00:29:02,081 --> 00:29:05,561
I have reached a level
688
00:29:08,201 --> 00:29:10,881
in my life that I'm happy with,
689
00:29:10,881 --> 00:29:14,441
and I enjoy being, I enjoy being me
690
00:29:15,641 --> 00:29:18,281
but I don't think you
ever really expected me
691
00:29:18,281 --> 00:29:20,441
to turn out the way I have.
692
00:29:20,441 --> 00:29:23,001
(mellow music)
693
00:29:28,721 --> 00:29:31,401
(mellow music)
694
00:29:31,401 --> 00:29:34,081
If we did all love Geoffrey
695
00:29:34,081 --> 00:29:35,641
and we all want to marry him.
696
00:29:35,641 --> 00:29:36,481
- Yeah.
697
00:29:36,481 --> 00:29:41,041
- I think I know the one that
he likes best, and that's her.
698
00:29:41,041 --> 00:29:46,041
- I don't think I'd get married too early.
699
00:29:46,401 --> 00:29:47,881
I'd like to have a full life first and--
700
00:29:47,881 --> 00:29:48,721
- I'd like to enjoy
701
00:29:48,721 --> 00:29:50,721
myself before I--
- Meet people and, yeah.
702
00:29:50,721 --> 00:29:53,401
Before you can commit
yourself to a family.
703
00:29:53,401 --> 00:29:54,681
Marriage means a different thing to me.
704
00:29:54,681 --> 00:29:56,201
I've still got my ideals about marriage.
705
00:29:56,201 --> 00:29:58,201
I don't know what it's all about.
706
00:29:58,201 --> 00:30:00,881
- [Michael] Sue was 24
when she married Billy.
707
00:30:00,881 --> 00:30:03,921
They had two children,
William and Catherine.
708
00:30:03,921 --> 00:30:05,481
- I think that to get married young,
709
00:30:05,481 --> 00:30:07,161
there must be things that you miss.
710
00:30:07,161 --> 00:30:11,641
You must miss that crucial
stage of being yourself
711
00:30:11,641 --> 00:30:12,961
because the minute you get married,
712
00:30:12,961 --> 00:30:15,601
you're no longer a single being.
713
00:30:15,601 --> 00:30:19,081
You're a partnership, and that
should be the idea behind it.
714
00:30:19,081 --> 00:30:21,041
- [Michael] By the time she was 34,
715
00:30:21,041 --> 00:30:22,721
she and Billy had divorced.
716
00:30:24,041 --> 00:30:28,561
- I've never sat down and
thought, well, what was it?
717
00:30:28,561 --> 00:30:30,441
Was it this, was it that?
718
00:30:30,441 --> 00:30:32,561
I just knew it wasn't working.
719
00:30:32,561 --> 00:30:35,281
There have been relationships
when I could have settled
720
00:30:35,281 --> 00:30:37,241
but they didn't feel quite right,
721
00:30:37,241 --> 00:30:41,481
so I've always come away and pulled away
722
00:30:41,481 --> 00:30:44,921
and just waited until
the right one come along,
723
00:30:46,481 --> 00:30:47,721
if they ever do.
724
00:30:47,721 --> 00:30:52,681
♪ Don't you remember you
told me you loved me, baby ♪
725
00:30:52,681 --> 00:30:53,761
♪ You said you'd be coming back ♪
726
00:30:53,761 --> 00:30:56,921
- [Michael] At 42, when we
filmed Sue in the karaoke bar,
727
00:30:56,921 --> 00:30:59,001
she brought Glen along to watch her sing.
728
00:30:59,001 --> 00:31:02,281
♪ Baby, baby, baby, oh, baby ♪
729
00:31:02,281 --> 00:31:04,321
We've just met and things are going well,
730
00:31:04,321 --> 00:31:08,161
but now obviously things have
gone very well. (laughing)
731
00:31:10,481 --> 00:31:11,721
- [Michael] Is this love?
732
00:31:11,721 --> 00:31:12,881
- Oh, I think so, yeah.
733
00:31:12,881 --> 00:31:15,361
I mean, we've known each
other for a long, long time
734
00:31:15,361 --> 00:31:17,041
before the seven years,
735
00:31:17,041 --> 00:31:19,481
and we've always, always liked each other.
736
00:31:21,441 --> 00:31:22,321
- [Michael] He's good looking.
737
00:31:22,321 --> 00:31:23,161
- He's very good looking.
738
00:31:23,161 --> 00:31:24,561
He's not bad, is he?
739
00:31:24,561 --> 00:31:28,481
Everyone says he looks like Paul Weller.
740
00:31:28,481 --> 00:31:29,321
Whether that's true or not,
741
00:31:29,321 --> 00:31:31,241
especially now he's growing his hair.
742
00:31:31,241 --> 00:31:33,601
- [Jackie] Susan most of all likes Lesley.
743
00:31:33,601 --> 00:31:35,041
- Do I?
- I mean before.
744
00:31:35,041 --> 00:31:36,681
- [Jackie] You said.
745
00:31:36,681 --> 00:31:38,601
She keeps changing her mind, though.
746
00:31:38,601 --> 00:31:41,401
- Yeah, I don't know which one, really.
747
00:31:41,401 --> 00:31:43,921
'Cause everything's
not that cut and dried.
748
00:31:43,921 --> 00:31:45,801
It's not either a career or family or,
749
00:31:46,721 --> 00:31:47,561
but it's what's in the middle.
750
00:31:47,561 --> 00:31:50,561
Am I just gonna carry on as I am now for,
751
00:31:50,561 --> 00:31:54,721
and end up on a shelf or am
I just gonna get married,
752
00:31:54,721 --> 00:31:55,801
could be any day?
753
00:31:55,801 --> 00:31:58,241
I've been married, and
I've not got that urgency.
754
00:31:58,241 --> 00:32:01,081
Glen, we sort of say maybe we will.
755
00:32:01,081 --> 00:32:03,481
We're engaged, we're committed.
756
00:32:03,481 --> 00:32:05,001
We've bought a house together,
757
00:32:05,001 --> 00:32:06,761
and to me, that's a big commitment.
758
00:32:07,761 --> 00:32:11,161
Every house needs money
spending on it when you move in.
759
00:32:11,161 --> 00:32:14,241
To have a wedding, you
gotta put some cash into it.
760
00:32:14,241 --> 00:32:15,521
When I got married,
761
00:32:15,521 --> 00:32:18,881
the primary reason was because
I wanted to have a child.
762
00:32:18,881 --> 00:32:21,681
The two, to me, went together.
763
00:32:21,681 --> 00:32:22,561
(child laughing)
764
00:32:22,561 --> 00:32:23,601
- [Michael] Have you and Glen
765
00:32:23,601 --> 00:32:24,841
thought of having your own child?
766
00:32:24,841 --> 00:32:28,401
- Well, Glen got with
me when we got together,
767
00:32:28,401 --> 00:32:30,481
I should say, when I was in my 40s,
768
00:32:30,481 --> 00:32:31,921
and you don't have a baby
769
00:32:31,921 --> 00:32:34,281
when you've just started a relationship.
770
00:32:34,281 --> 00:32:36,041
I didn't want to do all that again.
771
00:32:36,041 --> 00:32:38,201
I would have loved to
have had a baby with him
772
00:32:38,201 --> 00:32:40,161
'cause he would make a wonderful parent
773
00:32:41,041 --> 00:32:42,201
but the timing was off.
774
00:32:45,241 --> 00:32:46,401
- [Michael] So she's your baby?
775
00:32:46,401 --> 00:32:48,241
- She's my new baby, yeah.
776
00:32:48,241 --> 00:32:51,321
Yeah, my kids are my babies,
but she's my new baby.
777
00:32:51,321 --> 00:32:53,801
She's our baby, mine and Glen's.
778
00:32:55,361 --> 00:32:58,161
(people chattering)
779
00:32:58,161 --> 00:32:59,161
She's a wonderful terrier.
780
00:32:59,161 --> 00:33:01,161
She's got such character.
781
00:33:01,161 --> 00:33:02,001
- [Michael] What does she do?
782
00:33:02,001 --> 00:33:05,481
- Well, she watches TV with us.
783
00:33:05,481 --> 00:33:07,441
She's got her own favourite programmes.
784
00:33:09,281 --> 00:33:11,761
And she adores Rolf Harris,
785
00:33:11,761 --> 00:33:14,241
absolutely adores "Animal Hospital".
786
00:33:14,241 --> 00:33:18,041
She's at the top of the
house, and the music comes on,
787
00:33:18,041 --> 00:33:21,001
she runs down the stairs and
puts herself in front of the TV
788
00:33:21,001 --> 00:33:22,401
for Rolf Harris.
789
00:33:22,401 --> 00:33:25,001
(lively music)
790
00:33:25,921 --> 00:33:26,721
- [Michael] So, the house looks nice.
791
00:33:26,721 --> 00:33:27,601
You pleased with it?
792
00:33:27,601 --> 00:33:28,521
- I am very pleased with it.
793
00:33:28,521 --> 00:33:30,721
It's a lovely step for us.
794
00:33:30,721 --> 00:33:33,521
We feel like we've got
more space around us,
795
00:33:33,521 --> 00:33:36,161
and we've got to do everything inside,
796
00:33:36,161 --> 00:33:38,561
but we can build on it,
and that's what we want.
797
00:33:39,561 --> 00:33:42,601
I've been promising to
have a housewarming party
798
00:33:42,601 --> 00:33:43,441
since we've moved in.
799
00:33:43,441 --> 00:33:44,401
We've been here four months now,
800
00:33:44,401 --> 00:33:45,841
so I thought it was
about time we did that.
801
00:33:45,841 --> 00:33:48,681
So people are just starting to arrive now.
802
00:33:49,961 --> 00:33:52,481
- [Michael] So, you
left the East End, why?
803
00:33:52,481 --> 00:33:56,001
- Well, I've always wanted to move out,
804
00:33:56,001 --> 00:33:59,561
but you don't do that or
the opportunity isn't there
805
00:33:59,561 --> 00:34:01,881
when you are own your own with two kids.
806
00:34:01,881 --> 00:34:03,321
I wish I had done it before.
807
00:34:03,321 --> 00:34:05,561
The timing, it's timing, you know.
808
00:34:05,561 --> 00:34:07,841
Now was the right time, obviously.
809
00:34:07,841 --> 00:34:10,161
The East End has changed,
it's changed a lot.
810
00:34:10,161 --> 00:34:11,841
- [Woman] He was even
playing tie the tooth.
811
00:34:11,841 --> 00:34:13,881
(people chattering)
812
00:34:13,881 --> 00:34:14,721
- Mum comes down to me.
813
00:34:14,721 --> 00:34:15,561
It's so easy for them.
814
00:34:15,561 --> 00:34:17,481
They can jump on a train,
815
00:34:17,481 --> 00:34:20,321
and the station's within walking distance
816
00:34:20,321 --> 00:34:23,841
so it's worked out wonderfully well.
817
00:34:23,841 --> 00:34:25,961
- Well, some people are
just born into rich families
818
00:34:25,961 --> 00:34:27,361
and they're lucky.
819
00:34:27,361 --> 00:34:28,441
- I don't see why they
should have the luck
820
00:34:28,441 --> 00:34:30,721
when people have worked all their lives
821
00:34:30,721 --> 00:34:33,001
and haven't got half as
much as what they have.
822
00:34:33,001 --> 00:34:34,761
It just don't seem fair.
823
00:34:34,761 --> 00:34:37,041
- [Michael] So have you
moved up a class now?
824
00:34:37,881 --> 00:34:40,201
(sighs)
825
00:34:40,201 --> 00:34:41,681
- That's difficult to say.
826
00:34:41,681 --> 00:34:43,121
Up a class.
827
00:34:44,321 --> 00:34:46,041
I suppose it feels like that to me.
828
00:34:46,041 --> 00:34:48,521
No, there ain't no need for
food, that's gonna be their.
829
00:34:48,521 --> 00:34:50,361
Now, you've got the sense of pride,
830
00:34:50,361 --> 00:34:51,521
you've got your own house.
831
00:34:51,521 --> 00:34:54,201
I feel like I'm building for the future.
832
00:34:54,201 --> 00:34:56,881
(laughing)
833
00:34:56,881 --> 00:34:59,321
I've been a single
parent for a long while.
834
00:34:59,321 --> 00:35:01,721
I've brought them up on my own, really,
835
00:35:01,721 --> 00:35:05,241
because Catherine was
only two when Bill left.
836
00:35:05,241 --> 00:35:08,281
It's been extremely hard and it's been,
837
00:35:08,281 --> 00:35:10,961
sometimes, it's been very lonely.
838
00:35:10,961 --> 00:35:11,961
- I only had to have one filling, right.
839
00:35:11,961 --> 00:35:14,881
That was about the only
thing that I had done.
840
00:35:14,881 --> 00:35:17,881
- William, he's a computer addict.
841
00:35:17,881 --> 00:35:19,081
He works in the industry
842
00:35:19,081 --> 00:35:23,081
and he also constantly
has a computer on indoors.
843
00:35:23,081 --> 00:35:24,881
- This one's facing in the windows.
844
00:35:24,881 --> 00:35:26,641
- He could have gone to university,
845
00:35:26,641 --> 00:35:28,641
and he knows that and I know that,
846
00:35:28,641 --> 00:35:31,321
and I do regret that for him.
847
00:35:32,201 --> 00:35:33,161
But I've been there.
848
00:35:33,161 --> 00:35:36,521
I can just remember I didn't
wanna do that, either.
849
00:35:38,681 --> 00:35:40,881
And Catherine's temping
850
00:35:40,881 --> 00:35:43,641
because she wants to do a
bit of travelling next year.
851
00:35:43,641 --> 00:35:45,041
(laughing)
852
00:35:45,041 --> 00:35:47,201
People say she's me reincarnated.
853
00:35:47,201 --> 00:35:49,801
I mean, she looks a bit like me
854
00:35:49,801 --> 00:35:52,521
and her mannerisms are exactly like me,
855
00:35:52,521 --> 00:35:56,641
and she likes to enjoy herself.
856
00:35:56,641 --> 00:35:57,481
- [Man] Get to aviation.
857
00:35:57,481 --> 00:35:58,401
- [Woman] I wanted to get--
858
00:35:58,401 --> 00:36:00,681
- To walk into a relationship
859
00:36:00,681 --> 00:36:02,801
with someone who's got two teenagers,
860
00:36:02,801 --> 00:36:05,041
it must have been very difficult for him,
861
00:36:05,041 --> 00:36:07,121
and they do clash occasionally.
862
00:36:08,321 --> 00:36:12,161
I absolutely hate it because
I'm just an easy-going person
863
00:36:12,161 --> 00:36:13,361
and I don't like strife.
864
00:36:14,361 --> 00:36:17,481
They are doing things the
way I've brought them up,
865
00:36:17,481 --> 00:36:20,241
which isn't the way that Glen
would like things to be done,
866
00:36:20,241 --> 00:36:24,281
so you've got to learn to live
together in the same house.
867
00:36:24,281 --> 00:36:27,441
It will always be a learning curve.
868
00:36:28,521 --> 00:36:29,801
I'm a peacemaker.
869
00:36:30,921 --> 00:36:31,761
- [Michael] When the children
870
00:36:31,761 --> 00:36:33,641
were old enough to go to school,
871
00:36:33,641 --> 00:36:37,081
Sue went back to work and
had a series of office jobs.
872
00:36:37,081 --> 00:36:39,161
She now helps run the MA courses
873
00:36:39,161 --> 00:36:41,601
in the legal faculty of
the university of London.
874
00:36:42,881 --> 00:36:47,641
- Still work for the college
but we moved to Central London.
875
00:36:47,641 --> 00:36:52,641
Now I am sort of the main
administrator for the programme
876
00:36:52,761 --> 00:36:54,361
instead of an assistant
877
00:36:54,361 --> 00:36:57,241
and I've got a couple of
people that help me with that.
878
00:36:57,241 --> 00:36:59,641
Hey, could you fax that
to Mary for me, please?
879
00:36:59,641 --> 00:37:00,961
Thanks.
880
00:37:00,961 --> 00:37:02,361
- [Michael] So you like
the responsibility?
881
00:37:02,361 --> 00:37:04,441
- Yeah, I love the responsibility.
882
00:37:04,441 --> 00:37:07,281
I think I was born for the responsibility.
883
00:37:07,281 --> 00:37:08,641
Yeah, I love it.
884
00:37:08,641 --> 00:37:09,961
- Well, I've never been abroad but--
885
00:37:09,961 --> 00:37:10,841
- No, nor have I.
886
00:37:10,841 --> 00:37:12,121
- I have, I have.
887
00:37:12,121 --> 00:37:14,001
- Oh, yeah, 'cause you went
on that cruise, didn't you?
888
00:37:14,001 --> 00:37:15,561
- Yeah.
889
00:37:15,561 --> 00:37:18,241
Once a year we go to Cornwall or Devon.
890
00:37:18,241 --> 00:37:20,561
We try to find a different spot every year
891
00:37:20,561 --> 00:37:21,881
and we just bring the dog.
892
00:37:22,721 --> 00:37:24,361
It's just such a lovely place.
893
00:37:24,361 --> 00:37:27,521
Every time you turn a corner,
there's a different sight,
894
00:37:27,521 --> 00:37:28,881
there's a different,
895
00:37:28,881 --> 00:37:30,561
you just never know
what you're gonna find.
896
00:37:30,561 --> 00:37:33,081
Everything's just so beautiful.
897
00:37:35,321 --> 00:37:40,041
We'd both had childhood
holidays here and good memories,
898
00:37:40,041 --> 00:37:41,761
and we decided to come back,
899
00:37:41,761 --> 00:37:43,401
and we've been coming ever since.
900
00:37:44,481 --> 00:37:47,201
It's nice for us just to
be a couple for a week.
901
00:37:49,641 --> 00:37:52,641
When we retire, or maybe
before, if we get lucky,
902
00:37:52,641 --> 00:37:55,801
then this is the sort of
place we'd like to come to.
903
00:37:55,801 --> 00:37:56,961
That little one there,
904
00:37:56,961 --> 00:37:58,161
right in the middle nearest the beach,
905
00:37:58,161 --> 00:38:01,161
that would be ideal, absolute perfect.
906
00:38:01,161 --> 00:38:02,881
The perfect place.
907
00:38:02,881 --> 00:38:04,361
(laughing)
908
00:38:04,361 --> 00:38:06,921
(mellow music)
909
00:38:11,841 --> 00:38:15,081
(mellow music)
910
00:38:15,081 --> 00:38:19,041
- Vesto, vestas, vest.
911
00:38:19,041 --> 00:38:20,081
Vestat.
912
00:38:20,081 --> 00:38:23,081
Vestamus, vestatis, vestant.
913
00:38:23,081 --> 00:38:24,481
- [Teacher] Here, speak up.
914
00:38:24,481 --> 00:38:26,681
Fill out the gaps on the board there.
915
00:38:26,681 --> 00:38:27,681
- [Michael] When he was seven,
916
00:38:27,681 --> 00:38:30,321
Bruce was at a preparatory
boarding school.
917
00:38:30,321 --> 00:38:33,441
At 14, St. Paul's in London.
918
00:38:33,441 --> 00:38:37,281
- They don't sort of
enforce being upper class
919
00:38:37,281 --> 00:38:40,561
and things like that at St. Paul's.
920
00:38:40,561 --> 00:38:43,641
They suggest that you don't have long hair
921
00:38:43,641 --> 00:38:45,721
and they do get it cut if,
922
00:38:45,721 --> 00:38:50,321
and they teach you to be
reasonably well-mannered
923
00:38:50,321 --> 00:38:53,401
but not to sniff on the poorer people.
924
00:38:55,921 --> 00:38:58,681
- [Michael] At 21, he was
in his last year at Oxford,
925
00:38:58,681 --> 00:38:59,761
reading maths.
926
00:39:00,681 --> 00:39:02,721
- You can show that this is irreducible.
927
00:39:03,641 --> 00:39:05,161
Then you do a transformation
928
00:39:05,161 --> 00:39:07,481
on this polynomial X equal to T plus two.
929
00:39:07,481 --> 00:39:09,561
- Good, that's a nice way of doing it,
930
00:39:09,561 --> 00:39:11,841
particularly using Eisenstein down here.
931
00:39:11,841 --> 00:39:13,041
His test is very powerful.
932
00:39:13,041 --> 00:39:13,881
- [Bruce] Yes.
933
00:39:13,881 --> 00:39:14,721
Chris Awanabe.
934
00:39:14,721 --> 00:39:15,681
- Yes, sir!
935
00:39:15,681 --> 00:39:16,521
- Moma Naly.
936
00:39:16,521 --> 00:39:18,281
- Yes, sir!
- At 28,
937
00:39:18,281 --> 00:39:20,641
Bruce was teaching maths in East London.
938
00:39:20,641 --> 00:39:22,801
- Well, I'll go into Africa
939
00:39:22,801 --> 00:39:27,801
and try and teach people
who are not civilised
940
00:39:28,041 --> 00:39:30,761
to be more or less good.
941
00:39:34,801 --> 00:39:37,641
- [Michael] At 35, he
was teaching in Silet
942
00:39:37,641 --> 00:39:39,081
in Northern Bangladesh.
943
00:39:40,481 --> 00:39:43,281
- [Bruce] And I also got the
chance to learn a bit of Bangla
944
00:39:43,281 --> 00:39:44,841
which is very difficult.
945
00:39:44,841 --> 00:39:46,321
Not doing very well at.
946
00:39:46,321 --> 00:39:49,441
- [Instructor] Bangladesh,
Bangladesh, Bangladesh.
947
00:39:49,441 --> 00:39:50,641
- [Students] Bangladesh.
948
00:39:50,641 --> 00:39:51,481
- [Instructor] Bangladesh.
949
00:39:51,481 --> 00:39:52,601
- [Students] Bangladesh.
950
00:39:52,601 --> 00:39:55,241
- Before you do anything,
you have to make sure--
951
00:39:55,241 --> 00:39:58,321
- [Michael] By 42, Bruce
was back in the East End
952
00:39:58,321 --> 00:40:00,281
running the maths department
at a girls' school.
953
00:40:00,281 --> 00:40:01,321
- And then after naught hours,
954
00:40:01,321 --> 00:40:03,841
you can see that it would be 60 litres.
955
00:40:03,841 --> 00:40:05,761
Okay, now you wanna put this information--
956
00:40:05,761 --> 00:40:08,921
(church choir music)
957
00:40:21,881 --> 00:40:24,921
- [Michael] At 49, he's
teaching at St. Albans,
958
00:40:24,921 --> 00:40:26,961
a large boys' independent school
959
00:40:26,961 --> 00:40:28,681
which has girls in the sixth form.
960
00:40:29,921 --> 00:40:31,841
- [Bruce] I sing in the choir,
that happens twice a week.
961
00:40:31,841 --> 00:40:34,601
On Mondays and Fridays we go to the abbey,
962
00:40:34,601 --> 00:40:38,041
because in the early days,
the school was in the abbey,
963
00:40:38,041 --> 00:40:39,881
going back to 948.
964
00:40:41,401 --> 00:40:42,241
- [Michael] 948?
965
00:40:42,241 --> 00:40:44,961
- Yes, so the head quite likes to say
966
00:40:44,961 --> 00:40:47,361
we're in our third millennium, you know.
967
00:40:48,281 --> 00:40:50,241
- [Michael] So the school's
over a thousand years old?
968
00:40:50,241 --> 00:40:52,321
- Yes, in one form or another.
969
00:40:52,321 --> 00:40:54,481
You have to make X the
subject of this equation,
970
00:40:54,481 --> 00:40:55,521
you gotta get X on its own.
971
00:40:55,521 --> 00:40:56,721
So what's the first thing we do?
972
00:40:56,721 --> 00:40:58,041
- [Student] Multiply both sides by three.
973
00:40:58,041 --> 00:40:59,041
- [Bruce] You don't multiply by three.
974
00:40:59,041 --> 00:41:00,241
- Divide by three.
- Divide, sorry.
975
00:41:00,241 --> 00:41:01,241
- [Bruce] Okay, so--
976
00:41:01,241 --> 00:41:02,081
- [Michael] Tell me then
977
00:41:02,081 --> 00:41:04,601
what's exciting about
teaching here for you.
978
00:41:04,601 --> 00:41:07,761
- There is a higher
academic level to teach
979
00:41:09,081 --> 00:41:12,281
and then you can see pupils
at a more developed level,
980
00:41:12,281 --> 00:41:13,961
that flash of recognition
981
00:41:13,961 --> 00:41:16,441
and then engendering
their love of the subject
982
00:41:16,441 --> 00:41:19,601
that I had at their age.
983
00:41:19,601 --> 00:41:21,641
There is a class society,
984
00:41:21,641 --> 00:41:26,641
and I think public schools
may help its continuance.
985
00:41:27,041 --> 00:41:29,761
So you're in the lead,
you see, because here--
986
00:41:29,761 --> 00:41:32,321
- [Michael] Has it been
a kind of compromise
987
00:41:32,321 --> 00:41:34,601
of political principles for you, this?
988
00:41:35,601 --> 00:41:38,401
- Well, I would say have a million angels
989
00:41:38,401 --> 00:41:39,641
in front of every teacher
990
00:41:39,641 --> 00:41:42,801
who's prepared to slog away at
an inner-city comprehensive.
991
00:41:42,801 --> 00:41:43,881
Make way, make way.
992
00:41:43,881 --> 00:41:46,401
This is somebody who's
prepared to turn up each day
993
00:41:46,401 --> 00:41:48,081
and do that job.
994
00:41:48,081 --> 00:41:49,081
Where's the graph?
995
00:41:50,081 --> 00:41:51,601
- 60.
- 60, right.
996
00:41:51,601 --> 00:41:54,081
So when the tank is
full after naught hours.
997
00:41:54,081 --> 00:41:56,961
That motto water weareth away a stone
998
00:41:56,961 --> 00:41:59,601
by dripping upon it, not by smashing it
999
00:42:00,561 --> 00:42:03,721
was as a motto for teaching
that you kept on teaching them,
1000
00:42:03,721 --> 00:42:06,161
and that eventually it would get through,
1001
00:42:06,161 --> 00:42:11,001
and the pupils would change and
learn and develop and so on.
1002
00:42:11,001 --> 00:42:12,921
But I think in the end,
the reverse happened.
1003
00:42:12,921 --> 00:42:16,681
That water dripping on me wore me away.
1004
00:42:17,881 --> 00:42:22,361
I just thought, I don't think
I can do this till I'm 60,
1005
00:42:22,361 --> 00:42:25,521
and therefore, I'll have
to do something else.
1006
00:42:27,041 --> 00:42:28,161
- [Michael] Do your old friends
1007
00:42:28,161 --> 00:42:29,961
give you a hard time
about what you've done?
1008
00:42:29,961 --> 00:42:30,961
- They certainly do.
1009
00:42:30,961 --> 00:42:31,841
They absolutely do.
1010
00:42:31,841 --> 00:42:34,641
They say, "Oh, have we
joined the Tory Party,
1011
00:42:34,641 --> 00:42:37,121
"the golf club, the Masons?
1012
00:42:39,401 --> 00:42:41,641
"You're driving a much
better car than you used to,"
1013
00:42:41,641 --> 00:42:42,481
and so on.
1014
00:42:43,401 --> 00:42:47,841
Well, my girlfriend is in Africa,
1015
00:42:47,841 --> 00:42:50,441
And I don't think I'll have another chance
1016
00:42:50,441 --> 00:42:52,321
of seeing her again.
1017
00:42:52,321 --> 00:42:53,721
- [Michael] Have you got any girlfriends?
1018
00:42:53,721 --> 00:42:56,441
- No, no, not yet.
1019
00:42:56,441 --> 00:42:59,841
I'm sure it will come but not yet.
1020
00:42:59,841 --> 00:43:04,401
I mean, I do think a lot of
people think too much about it.
1021
00:43:04,401 --> 00:43:06,841
I think I would very much like to,
1022
00:43:10,721 --> 00:43:14,081
oh, become involved in a family,
my own family, for a start.
1023
00:43:14,081 --> 00:43:17,601
That's a need that I
feel I ought to fulfil
1024
00:43:17,601 --> 00:43:20,401
and would like to fulfil
and would do it well.
1025
00:43:20,401 --> 00:43:22,561
Yes, I haven't got married or whatever,
1026
00:43:22,561 --> 00:43:25,161
and I was supposing that that
would have been something
1027
00:43:25,161 --> 00:43:26,521
which I hoped had happened.
1028
00:43:27,681 --> 00:43:28,521
- [Michael] You're getting on a bit.
1029
00:43:28,521 --> 00:43:29,761
Are you getting worried?
1030
00:43:29,761 --> 00:43:30,721
- [Bruce] Well, not particularly.
1031
00:43:30,721 --> 00:43:32,521
I mean, I'm always optimistic.
1032
00:43:32,521 --> 00:43:34,721
I mean, who knows who
I might meet tomorrow?
1033
00:43:36,041 --> 00:43:37,401
- And in the middle of a conversation
1034
00:43:37,401 --> 00:43:39,401
about something completely different,
1035
00:43:40,401 --> 00:43:45,401
he just asked if I'd like to marry him,
1036
00:43:45,521 --> 00:43:46,961
and if I hadn't been listening carefully,
1037
00:43:46,961 --> 00:43:48,321
I would have missed it completely.
1038
00:43:48,321 --> 00:43:50,001
- [Priest] To love and to cherish.
1039
00:43:50,001 --> 00:43:51,441
- To love and to cherish.
1040
00:43:51,441 --> 00:43:53,561
- [Priest] Till death us do part.
1041
00:43:53,561 --> 00:43:55,801
- Till death us do part.
1042
00:43:55,801 --> 00:43:57,721
- [Bruce] Is this a beetroot or something?
1043
00:43:57,721 --> 00:43:59,761
- [Penny] I think it's just a weed.
1044
00:43:59,761 --> 00:44:01,441
- [Michael] Do you enjoy gardening?
1045
00:44:02,401 --> 00:44:04,361
- Well, under Penny's directions,
1046
00:44:04,361 --> 00:44:06,281
I do whatever she asks me.
1047
00:44:06,281 --> 00:44:08,641
I don't know what to do here,
1048
00:44:08,641 --> 00:44:10,521
what order to do things in.
1049
00:44:10,521 --> 00:44:12,641
She and her mother are quite good at this.
1050
00:44:13,681 --> 00:44:15,321
- [Michael] So you're the labourer?
1051
00:44:15,321 --> 00:44:19,201
- Yes, I'm the unpaid labourer, the serf,
1052
00:44:20,321 --> 00:44:23,161
the feudal vassal or whatever.
1053
00:44:23,161 --> 00:44:25,801
Well, Penny will give you
the correct mediaeval terms.
1054
00:44:27,041 --> 00:44:29,481
- We don't argue very much.
1055
00:44:29,481 --> 00:44:30,281
- Not really.
1056
00:44:30,281 --> 00:44:33,241
I mean, we haven't really
had a sort of full-blown row.
1057
00:44:33,241 --> 00:44:37,041
- No, our arguments sort of
tend to be two sentences,
1058
00:44:37,041 --> 00:44:38,801
and I go off and sulk for 24 hours.
1059
00:44:39,881 --> 00:44:41,361
- How are you doing, dear?
1060
00:44:41,361 --> 00:44:42,201
- Fine, thank you.
1061
00:44:42,201 --> 00:44:43,801
And I think the one
positive influence on him,
1062
00:44:43,801 --> 00:44:45,921
I've stopped him apologising.
1063
00:44:45,921 --> 00:44:49,401
When I first knew him, he
kept saying, "Sorry, sorry,"
1064
00:44:49,401 --> 00:44:50,721
and apologised for all sorts of things
1065
00:44:50,721 --> 00:44:53,601
that there was no need to apologise for.
1066
00:44:53,601 --> 00:44:55,641
Maybe it's just 'cause
we weren't married then.
1067
00:44:55,641 --> 00:44:57,121
- Yeah, see, I was winning you over.
1068
00:44:57,121 --> 00:44:59,161
- Yeah, yeah, that's right.
1069
00:44:59,161 --> 00:45:01,121
- Well, you're the world's greatest cook.
1070
00:45:01,121 --> 00:45:02,281
- It's only pasta, wouldn't
think it'll go far--
1071
00:45:02,281 --> 00:45:04,161
- [Michael] But if you
have emotional issues,
1072
00:45:04,161 --> 00:45:05,561
will you talk about them?
1073
00:45:07,801 --> 00:45:09,721
- Well, I have the usual male reticence
1074
00:45:09,721 --> 00:45:11,241
about that kind of thing.
1075
00:45:11,241 --> 00:45:12,801
Great tea.
1076
00:45:12,801 --> 00:45:14,881
If Penny really wanted
to give me a hard time,
1077
00:45:14,881 --> 00:45:17,201
she'd have to say, "Talk
about your feelings."
1078
00:45:18,761 --> 00:45:19,601
That would be worse--
1079
00:45:19,601 --> 00:45:20,441
- That would be
1080
00:45:20,441 --> 00:45:22,441
the worst thing.
- Than a 24-hour sulk.
1081
00:45:22,441 --> 00:45:23,681
- Yeah.
1082
00:45:23,681 --> 00:45:24,481
- I think so, yeah.
1083
00:45:24,481 --> 00:45:25,601
I don't know whether they
gonna move any of them--
1084
00:45:25,601 --> 00:45:27,401
- We may have children, I don't know.
1085
00:45:27,401 --> 00:45:30,441
I mean, if in seven years' time or so
1086
00:45:30,441 --> 00:45:34,241
we're living in a slightly
bigger house with a young family,
1087
00:45:34,241 --> 00:45:35,761
that would be nice.
1088
00:45:35,761 --> 00:45:37,921
I mean, I don't want to
pin all my hopes on it
1089
00:45:37,921 --> 00:45:39,201
and nothing happens.
1090
00:45:40,281 --> 00:45:41,281
We are quite old.
1091
00:45:41,281 --> 00:45:45,281
I can seeing bringing up, say,
teenage children in your 40s
1092
00:45:45,281 --> 00:45:47,361
might be a bit strange.
1093
00:45:49,241 --> 00:45:50,041
Come on, then, Henry.
1094
00:45:50,041 --> 00:45:51,121
Get on.
1095
00:45:51,121 --> 00:45:53,201
(boys laughing)
1096
00:45:53,201 --> 00:45:55,361
- [Michael] Is it more
tiring than you thought?
1097
00:45:55,361 --> 00:45:56,801
- I don't think until you're doing it
1098
00:45:56,801 --> 00:45:59,201
you realise how sleep-deprived you get
1099
00:45:59,201 --> 00:46:01,361
and how totally exhausted you are
1100
00:46:01,361 --> 00:46:03,921
all the time for several years.
1101
00:46:03,921 --> 00:46:05,841
I think that came as rather a shock.
1102
00:46:05,841 --> 00:46:08,721
- Sometimes, I go to bed at
8:30, which is ridiculous.
1103
00:46:09,721 --> 00:46:12,481
In fact, I sometimes go to
bed before Henry and George.
1104
00:46:14,081 --> 00:46:15,921
- [Michael] He looks like
his father, doesn't he?
1105
00:46:17,961 --> 00:46:20,721
- [Penny] George has got the cheekbones
1106
00:46:20,721 --> 00:46:22,121
that run in Bruce's family.
1107
00:46:23,041 --> 00:46:24,641
- And what have I got?
1108
00:46:24,641 --> 00:46:25,481
- Uh.
1109
00:46:27,921 --> 00:46:30,601
Ooh, that's hard to answer, darling.
1110
00:46:31,441 --> 00:46:34,881
(boy speaking in foreign language)
1111
00:46:34,881 --> 00:46:36,881
- We're at my first school,
1112
00:46:36,881 --> 00:46:38,761
where I was from about five to eight,
1113
00:46:40,161 --> 00:46:43,721
and this is where I
boarded for three years.
1114
00:46:43,721 --> 00:46:45,961
(boy speaking in foreign language)
1115
00:46:45,961 --> 00:46:47,681
And I can remember being happy there.
1116
00:46:47,681 --> 00:46:51,081
I can remember also being miserable
1117
00:46:51,081 --> 00:46:53,041
because I can remember crying.
1118
00:46:53,041 --> 00:46:54,321
- [Boy] Squad, steady!
1119
00:46:54,321 --> 00:46:55,841
- [Bruce] I always seemed to be beaten,
1120
00:46:55,841 --> 00:46:58,001
and I never used to understand why.
1121
00:46:58,001 --> 00:46:59,641
- Squad, halt!
1122
00:46:59,641 --> 00:47:01,241
- [Michael] You were here because,
1123
00:47:01,241 --> 00:47:02,601
what, your parents were--
1124
00:47:02,601 --> 00:47:07,481
- My parents were separated
and were divorced.
1125
00:47:07,481 --> 00:47:12,481
And just to give me a stable
place to be and be educated,
1126
00:47:12,481 --> 00:47:17,121
it was a solution to all those problems.
1127
00:47:17,121 --> 00:47:19,761
My heart's desire is to see my daddy
1128
00:47:19,761 --> 00:47:22,201
who is 6,000 miles away.
1129
00:47:23,561 --> 00:47:26,401
I did miss contact with my father
1130
00:47:26,401 --> 00:47:29,401
and, well, I say it as a joke to Penny,
1131
00:47:29,401 --> 00:47:32,281
time to send them boarding as I was.
1132
00:47:32,281 --> 00:47:33,961
And she says, "Over my dead body,"
1133
00:47:33,961 --> 00:47:36,561
which is, but I wouldn't
want that, either.
1134
00:47:37,601 --> 00:47:38,761
- [Michael] Five years ago,
1135
00:47:38,761 --> 00:47:40,801
the family moved away from the East End
1136
00:47:40,801 --> 00:47:42,161
to be near Bruce's new school.
1137
00:47:42,161 --> 00:47:43,001
- Hey, what's in.
1138
00:47:43,001 --> 00:47:45,881
It's very quiet, its child-friendly,
1139
00:47:45,881 --> 00:47:47,441
and it just feels very safe.
1140
00:47:47,441 --> 00:47:49,521
And that's really important
when you've got small children,
1141
00:47:49,521 --> 00:47:51,241
that the area feels safe.
1142
00:47:52,681 --> 00:47:55,281
(mellow music)
1143
00:47:57,081 --> 00:47:59,201
- [Michael] And what can you
give them that you didn't have?
1144
00:47:59,201 --> 00:48:03,041
- [Bruce] Contact with
a father that is loving,
1145
00:48:03,041 --> 00:48:05,321
and they can realise that
1146
00:48:06,481 --> 00:48:08,321
and show that love to other people
1147
00:48:09,401 --> 00:48:10,881
and realise when they're letting
1148
00:48:10,881 --> 00:48:12,321
both themselves and me down.
1149
00:48:12,321 --> 00:48:15,161
That could be a sort of
guiding light for them.
1150
00:48:17,121 --> 00:48:18,721
- [Michael] Do you want any more children?
1151
00:48:20,561 --> 00:48:21,401
- Well.
1152
00:48:22,881 --> 00:48:26,001
- Bruce was originally
talking about a cricket team.
1153
00:48:26,001 --> 00:48:28,721
But he's got his opening batsman,
1154
00:48:28,721 --> 00:48:31,801
and that I think is gonna
be his lot, frankly.
1155
00:48:31,801 --> 00:48:32,681
- I want you to play tomorrow.
1156
00:48:32,681 --> 00:48:36,081
I'm not gonna drop you
from sarcasm, all right?
1157
00:48:36,081 --> 00:48:39,601
I run one of the junior
teams here, the under-13s.
1158
00:48:40,681 --> 00:48:43,121
And there'll be nearly 200 boys there
1159
00:48:43,121 --> 00:48:44,641
doing that on a Saturday
1160
00:48:44,641 --> 00:48:47,041
rather than other things
that could waylay them.
1161
00:48:48,441 --> 00:48:50,401
It's that combination
of playing within a team
1162
00:48:50,401 --> 00:48:54,681
and the ability to back each
other up and form friendships
1163
00:48:54,681 --> 00:48:56,681
that's such a nice thing.
1164
00:48:58,761 --> 00:48:59,961
- [Man] Nice shot.
1165
00:48:59,961 --> 00:49:03,241
- [Michael] At weekends,
Bruce plays village cricket.
1166
00:49:03,241 --> 00:49:05,481
- We don't really mind who wins and loses,
1167
00:49:05,481 --> 00:49:07,241
we obviously prefer to win
1168
00:49:07,241 --> 00:49:11,161
and we go on tour every
year, so we go down to Devon.
1169
00:49:12,081 --> 00:49:13,201
Ever such a nice bunch of mates,
1170
00:49:13,201 --> 00:49:15,841
and I've known some of them for 25 years.
1171
00:49:15,841 --> 00:49:19,121
You can play at a reasonable
level till you're in your 60s.
1172
00:49:20,081 --> 00:49:22,201
- [Michael] And what
about your batting skills?
1173
00:49:22,201 --> 00:49:23,441
- I'm mainly a bit of a slogger,
1174
00:49:23,441 --> 00:49:27,881
so I tend to bat down the
order, six, seven, eight.
1175
00:49:27,881 --> 00:49:32,641
It can be brief, but the
last time I played, I got 40.
1176
00:49:34,121 --> 00:49:34,961
Ooh!
1177
00:49:36,201 --> 00:49:37,041
- Great goin'!
1178
00:49:37,041 --> 00:49:39,201
(cheering)
1179
00:49:39,201 --> 00:49:41,081
- Okay, from their hiding
place in the bushes,
1180
00:49:41,081 --> 00:49:41,921
William and--
1181
00:49:41,921 --> 00:49:43,721
- [Michael] Do you have
fears for the future?
1182
00:49:43,721 --> 00:49:45,241
- Personally, I've kind of worried
1183
00:49:45,241 --> 00:49:47,961
that the boys will turn out all right.
1184
00:49:47,961 --> 00:49:49,441
I hope they avoid drugs.
1185
00:49:50,841 --> 00:49:54,641
To see them sleeping or carry
them around is just fantastic,
1186
00:49:54,641 --> 00:49:58,961
and just the smell of them
and the look of them is just,
1187
00:49:58,961 --> 00:50:00,041
you just want to protect them
1188
00:50:00,041 --> 00:50:03,321
from everything that's harmful to them.
1189
00:50:04,521 --> 00:50:06,401
- [Michael] When you look
back at yourself at seven,
1190
00:50:06,401 --> 00:50:08,161
can we see you now?
1191
00:50:09,841 --> 00:50:11,921
- I can't really recognise myself.
1192
00:50:11,921 --> 00:50:14,321
He looks a little bit
lost and a little bit sad,
1193
00:50:14,321 --> 00:50:17,481
and I think I'm quite sort of surprised
1194
00:50:17,481 --> 00:50:21,481
to be sort of contented
and reasonably happy.
1195
00:50:24,801 --> 00:50:26,561
- [Michael] Do you have a dream?
1196
00:50:26,561 --> 00:50:28,041
- Well, I'd have probably
liked to have played
1197
00:50:28,041 --> 00:50:31,041
international cricket but
I just wasn't good enough.
1198
00:50:32,441 --> 00:50:35,041
You know, one's dreams go,
and the day-to-day living
1199
00:50:35,041 --> 00:50:38,801
of ordinary life and
family life takes over,
1200
00:50:41,001 --> 00:50:44,561
I think we just sort of
live without our dreams.
1201
00:50:44,561 --> 00:50:47,121
(mellow music)
1202
00:50:53,201 --> 00:50:56,041
(mellow music)
1203
00:50:56,041 --> 00:51:00,081
- I don't like the big boys hitting us
1204
00:51:00,081 --> 00:51:04,521
and the prefects sending
us out for nothing.
1205
00:51:06,961 --> 00:51:08,321
- [Michael] When he was seven,
1206
00:51:08,321 --> 00:51:11,161
Paul was in care in a
children's home in London.
1207
00:51:13,321 --> 00:51:16,321
Were you happy at the
children's home in England?
1208
00:51:16,321 --> 00:51:17,521
- I didn't mind that, really,
1209
00:51:17,521 --> 00:51:19,681
'cause we didn't know what was going on
1210
00:51:19,681 --> 00:51:21,481
'cause we were a bit young.
1211
00:51:21,481 --> 00:51:23,961
Well, as far as I know,
my mother and father,
1212
00:51:23,961 --> 00:51:26,041
well, they separated originally, I think.
1213
00:51:28,081 --> 00:51:30,161
They eventually got divorced.
1214
00:51:30,161 --> 00:51:31,241
I went to the boarding
school for one year,
1215
00:51:31,241 --> 00:51:33,721
and then we emigrated to Australia.
1216
00:51:35,241 --> 00:51:37,321
- [Michael] Paul settled with
his father and stepmother
1217
00:51:37,321 --> 00:51:39,041
in a suburb of Melbourne.
1218
00:51:40,201 --> 00:51:41,881
What mark has it left on you
1219
00:51:41,881 --> 00:51:44,321
the fact that you were brought
up within a bad marriage?
1220
00:51:44,321 --> 00:51:46,281
- [Paul] The only thing I can say
1221
00:51:46,281 --> 00:51:48,321
that I think might have come from that
1222
00:51:48,321 --> 00:51:50,801
is just my lack of confidence
1223
00:51:50,801 --> 00:51:54,681
and being able to show my
feelings, really, I suppose.
1224
00:51:54,681 --> 00:51:56,961
- [Michael] Would you
like to get married, Paul?
1225
00:51:56,961 --> 00:51:58,241
- No.
1226
00:51:58,241 --> 00:51:59,561
- [Michael] Tell me why not.
1227
00:51:59,561 --> 00:52:01,001
- I don't like...
1228
00:52:02,481 --> 00:52:05,281
Say you had a wife.
1229
00:52:05,281 --> 00:52:09,601
They say you had to eat
what they cooked you,
1230
00:52:09,601 --> 00:52:13,041
and say I don't like greens.
1231
00:52:13,041 --> 00:52:13,881
Well, I don't.
1232
00:52:14,881 --> 00:52:18,041
Oh, no, I prefer to be alone, really.
1233
00:52:18,041 --> 00:52:21,641
I can't say I don't wanna get
married, 'cause I think I do,
1234
00:52:21,641 --> 00:52:23,001
but I wanna be happily married
1235
00:52:23,001 --> 00:52:25,681
and therefore, I wanna make sure, I think.
1236
00:52:25,681 --> 00:52:27,321
- [Michael] What is it
that you fell in love with?
1237
00:52:27,321 --> 00:52:28,641
What is it about him?
1238
00:52:28,641 --> 00:52:30,681
- His helplessness, I suppose.
1239
00:52:30,681 --> 00:52:32,841
It was the motherly instinct in me
1240
00:52:32,841 --> 00:52:34,161
to pick him up and cuddle him.
1241
00:52:34,161 --> 00:52:36,361
And he's also very good looking, I think,
1242
00:52:36,361 --> 00:52:39,001
but he doesn't agree with me.
1243
00:52:39,001 --> 00:52:41,801
In the summer he's got this
cute little bum in shorts.
1244
00:52:42,921 --> 00:52:44,641
I mean, I can tell quite
a few stories here,
1245
00:52:44,641 --> 00:52:46,961
but the one that really
irritates me the most
1246
00:52:46,961 --> 00:52:49,961
is when we have an argument he
says, "That's it, leave me."
1247
00:52:49,961 --> 00:52:51,761
And I say, "Fine, all
right, I will one day."
1248
00:52:51,761 --> 00:52:55,961
We had our 20th wedding
anniversary just before Christmas.
1249
00:52:55,961 --> 00:52:56,961
- Which is the life sentence.
1250
00:52:56,961 --> 00:52:58,561
- Yeah, everyone reckons
1251
00:52:58,561 --> 00:53:00,521
that we should be out of jail by now.
1252
00:53:00,521 --> 00:53:02,281
- To a certain extent we started thinking,
1253
00:53:02,281 --> 00:53:04,961
well, do we really know each other now?
1254
00:53:04,961 --> 00:53:08,881
Because you just get in the
humdrum of going to work,
1255
00:53:08,881 --> 00:53:10,481
coming back home--
1256
00:53:10,481 --> 00:53:11,481
- Running kids here and--
1257
00:53:11,481 --> 00:53:12,641
- Kids here and there.
1258
00:53:12,641 --> 00:53:13,441
I don't think you mean to
1259
00:53:13,441 --> 00:53:16,881
but you probably stop thinking
about each other a lot.
1260
00:53:16,881 --> 00:53:19,961
I find it hard to express
emotion most of the time,
1261
00:53:19,961 --> 00:53:23,601
although I'm getting on
top of that more now.
1262
00:53:24,881 --> 00:53:26,721
Just the simple things,
to say to, sort of,
1263
00:53:26,721 --> 00:53:29,561
Susan, I love you, something like that.
1264
00:53:29,561 --> 00:53:30,881
I can tell you about it,
1265
00:53:30,881 --> 00:53:35,881
but I really haven't been
able to say it freely to Sue.
1266
00:53:37,321 --> 00:53:38,441
It's a bit hard to talk about.
1267
00:53:38,441 --> 00:53:40,481
I did end up having to get a bit of help,
1268
00:53:40,481 --> 00:53:42,761
and it wasn't directly
due to our relationship.
1269
00:53:42,761 --> 00:53:44,841
It started at work, unfortunately,
1270
00:53:44,841 --> 00:53:47,561
which brought my self-esteem down
1271
00:53:47,561 --> 00:53:49,841
which tended to affect everything else.
1272
00:53:50,801 --> 00:53:52,881
And I was just very fortunate
1273
00:53:52,881 --> 00:53:56,481
that I saw a local
doctor and with her help,
1274
00:53:56,481 --> 00:53:59,001
I started coming back to
normal thinking, probably.
1275
00:54:00,321 --> 00:54:04,801
I mean, I was feeling a little bit worried
1276
00:54:04,801 --> 00:54:05,641
about the relationship
1277
00:54:05,641 --> 00:54:07,401
because I felt like I hadn't progressed.
1278
00:54:07,401 --> 00:54:08,441
I was going backwards.
1279
00:54:08,441 --> 00:54:11,081
And, I mean, I still believe that.
1280
00:54:11,081 --> 00:54:14,641
I was thinking that why would Susan
1281
00:54:14,641 --> 00:54:15,881
wanna be with someone as,
1282
00:54:17,001 --> 00:54:18,881
sounds funny but as boring as me,
1283
00:54:18,881 --> 00:54:20,401
'cause there was nothing there.
1284
00:54:20,401 --> 00:54:21,881
I mean, what do I do?
1285
00:54:21,881 --> 00:54:25,481
- How do I say it?
1286
00:54:25,481 --> 00:54:27,441
It was a shock that he got that low
1287
00:54:27,441 --> 00:54:28,801
and that he doubted the relationship
1288
00:54:28,801 --> 00:54:30,281
because one thing I've always known
1289
00:54:30,281 --> 00:54:32,921
is that Paul's never
doubted his love for me.
1290
00:54:32,921 --> 00:54:34,321
You know, it's always been there,
1291
00:54:34,321 --> 00:54:36,041
and I've never doubted it, either.
1292
00:54:37,121 --> 00:54:39,841
- [Michael] Did the physical
side of your marriage suffer?
1293
00:54:39,841 --> 00:54:40,681
- I think it did.
1294
00:54:42,441 --> 00:54:43,841
I think it did, really.
1295
00:54:43,841 --> 00:54:44,881
- For a little while.
1296
00:54:47,001 --> 00:54:50,081
We promised ourselves
when we first got married
1297
00:54:50,081 --> 00:54:53,001
that we'd never stop touching
1298
00:54:53,001 --> 00:54:55,041
or being affectionate towards each other.
1299
00:54:55,041 --> 00:54:57,321
And in front of the
children, we've always been,
1300
00:54:57,321 --> 00:54:59,281
and even now with the children,
1301
00:54:59,281 --> 00:55:04,281
we still embrace a lot,
both Katy and Robert.
1302
00:55:04,281 --> 00:55:05,121
I mean---
1303
00:55:05,121 --> 00:55:08,401
- Katy will sometimes
say, "Mother, stop it."
1304
00:55:09,961 --> 00:55:11,201
I was gonna be a policeman
1305
00:55:11,201 --> 00:55:15,761
but I thought how hard
it would be to join in.
1306
00:55:15,761 --> 00:55:17,561
I just haven't made up my mind yet.
1307
00:55:17,561 --> 00:55:19,121
I was gonna be a phys ed teacher
1308
00:55:19,121 --> 00:55:21,561
but one of the teachers told me
1309
00:55:21,561 --> 00:55:24,681
that you had to get up into university.
1310
00:55:27,161 --> 00:55:29,801
- [Michael] At 21, Paul
was a junior partner
1311
00:55:29,801 --> 00:55:31,281
in a firm of bricklayers.
1312
00:55:32,841 --> 00:55:36,281
By 28, he'd gone out on
his own as a subcontractor.
1313
00:55:37,401 --> 00:55:40,801
- I think when I started work for myself,
1314
00:55:40,801 --> 00:55:42,881
things were looking good for me
1315
00:55:42,881 --> 00:55:44,801
'cause I was out of school,
1316
00:55:44,801 --> 00:55:47,201
something I was very enthusiastic about.
1317
00:55:48,241 --> 00:55:50,681
And I was chasing the dangling carrot
1318
00:55:50,681 --> 00:55:53,601
but never got there
'cause, I mean, really,
1319
00:55:53,601 --> 00:55:57,601
I'm a worker and not a businessman.
1320
00:55:58,961 --> 00:56:00,841
- [Michael] By the time he was 42,
1321
00:56:00,841 --> 00:56:02,801
Paul was doing factory work,
1322
00:56:02,801 --> 00:56:04,921
making signs for a plastics company.
1323
00:56:06,321 --> 00:56:08,921
What's the future for you
at work, do you think?
1324
00:56:08,921 --> 00:56:10,681
- Well, I mean, the job's still there.
1325
00:56:10,681 --> 00:56:11,921
I've had talks with them
1326
00:56:11,921 --> 00:56:15,161
about whether they were
ushering me out the door,
1327
00:56:15,161 --> 00:56:16,801
and they say they're not.
1328
00:56:16,801 --> 00:56:18,521
Not that I'm that old,
but it's a bit of worry
1329
00:56:18,521 --> 00:56:21,641
about getting a full-time
job with my skill levels.
1330
00:56:25,001 --> 00:56:26,441
- [Michael] Sue had been a hairdresser
1331
00:56:26,441 --> 00:56:29,681
for most of her working life, but at 49,
1332
00:56:29,681 --> 00:56:31,401
she has a new career
1333
00:56:31,401 --> 00:56:34,521
as an occupational therapist
in a retirement home.
1334
00:56:36,801 --> 00:56:38,441
- [Susan] You might be in
your 40's and getting older,
1335
00:56:38,441 --> 00:56:40,001
but you still have a lot to add
1336
00:56:40,001 --> 00:56:42,801
and you can learn to go
in a different direction.
1337
00:56:42,801 --> 00:56:44,241
I call this my sea change.
1338
00:56:45,961 --> 00:56:47,561
- [Michael] Do you have ambitions?
1339
00:56:47,561 --> 00:56:48,401
- Not really now.
1340
00:56:49,481 --> 00:56:51,361
I've been in this job 10 years
1341
00:56:51,361 --> 00:56:53,081
and never asked for a pay rise.
1342
00:56:53,081 --> 00:56:55,041
That's just what I've always been like.
1343
00:56:56,641 --> 00:56:59,041
- [Michael] Has it
affected home life at all?
1344
00:56:59,041 --> 00:57:00,641
- [Susan] It has affected a little bit
1345
00:57:00,641 --> 00:57:03,601
because I'm not there at
home as much as I used to be
1346
00:57:03,601 --> 00:57:04,881
for when Paul got home.
1347
00:57:05,881 --> 00:57:06,801
- It can be,
1348
00:57:08,321 --> 00:57:09,561
and I'm sure I'm not the only one,
1349
00:57:09,561 --> 00:57:11,921
it can be quite startling.
1350
00:57:11,921 --> 00:57:14,641
You get home and you
think, there's no one here.
1351
00:57:14,641 --> 00:57:17,081
- [Susan] When I've been here
for 30 years to be home to.
1352
00:57:17,081 --> 00:57:18,801
- It's really different.
1353
00:57:18,801 --> 00:57:20,081
- [Announcer] Oh, good fist away by--
1354
00:57:20,081 --> 00:57:21,881
- [Michael] By the time they were 28,
1355
00:57:21,881 --> 00:57:25,601
Paul and Sue had two
children, Katy and Robert.
1356
00:57:26,561 --> 00:57:28,561
- [Announcer] Picked up.
1357
00:57:29,961 --> 00:57:31,801
- [Michael] Katy did well at school
1358
00:57:31,801 --> 00:57:35,041
and got a place at university
to study archaeology.
1359
00:57:36,601 --> 00:57:39,801
- [Katy] They're photos of the
dig in Cyprus that I went on
1360
00:57:39,801 --> 00:57:42,401
and we were digging in bronze age tombs
1361
00:57:42,401 --> 00:57:44,721
that are around the village.
1362
00:57:44,721 --> 00:57:46,441
- [Michael] You're the first person
1363
00:57:46,441 --> 00:57:47,641
in the family to go to university.
1364
00:57:47,641 --> 00:57:49,761
Was it a struggle for you?
1365
00:57:49,761 --> 00:57:53,801
- It was a bit because I
had to do it all by myself.
1366
00:57:53,801 --> 00:57:55,721
I had nobody to really help me
1367
00:57:55,721 --> 00:57:57,361
'cause mum and dad couldn't help me
1368
00:57:57,361 --> 00:57:59,881
with my essays or things like that.
1369
00:57:59,881 --> 00:58:02,481
- What does university mean?
1370
00:58:02,481 --> 00:58:03,881
I'm pretty happy with Katy
1371
00:58:03,881 --> 00:58:05,321
and I'm not having a go at Rob,
1372
00:58:05,321 --> 00:58:07,681
but I've got views for Robert,
1373
00:58:07,681 --> 00:58:09,481
'cause he's struggling a little bit.
1374
00:58:10,721 --> 00:58:13,161
- [Michael] Robert has
trained as a car mechanic.
1375
00:58:14,401 --> 00:58:16,681
- He's got reading and
writing difficulties
1376
00:58:16,681 --> 00:58:18,241
and, I mean, he's coping with that.
1377
00:58:18,241 --> 00:58:21,201
We'd like to see him be a
little bit more proactive
1378
00:58:21,201 --> 00:58:23,841
at doing literacy course
now he's a bit older.
1379
00:58:25,041 --> 00:58:29,001
But just day-to-day troubles
of making ends meet with money,
1380
00:58:29,001 --> 00:58:30,641
that's always hard.
1381
00:58:30,641 --> 00:58:32,721
- He went nuts at me for using the phone,
1382
00:58:32,721 --> 00:58:33,601
"No more fucking back,
1383
00:58:33,601 --> 00:58:36,801
"you constantly fuckin'
do this all the time."
1384
00:58:36,801 --> 00:58:39,521
- [Michael] What's Robert
got that you gave him?
1385
00:58:39,521 --> 00:58:40,881
- [Paul] Moodiness.
1386
00:58:40,881 --> 00:58:42,761
I think Robert's even
a little bit more moody
1387
00:58:42,761 --> 00:58:44,441
than what I've ever been.
1388
00:58:45,321 --> 00:58:48,001
He's not your average relaxed 21-year-old.
1389
00:58:50,961 --> 00:58:52,801
- Whatcha doin'?
1390
00:58:52,801 --> 00:58:55,521
We only had two children,
because we thought
1391
00:58:55,521 --> 00:58:57,281
that we couldn't love any more children
1392
00:58:57,281 --> 00:58:58,481
as much as we loved our two.
1393
00:58:58,481 --> 00:59:01,201
And now we've got our two
grandchildren, we just love them.
1394
00:59:01,201 --> 00:59:02,121
- We love them as much, really.
1395
00:59:02,121 --> 00:59:03,921
- As much, yeah.
1396
00:59:03,921 --> 00:59:05,721
Yay!
1397
00:59:05,721 --> 00:59:06,721
- [Paul] With Rob and Stacey,
1398
00:59:06,721 --> 00:59:09,521
we don't really know how
long they're gonna last for
1399
00:59:09,521 --> 00:59:12,641
and I keep my fingers
crossed they will last.
1400
00:59:13,721 --> 00:59:18,001
We can only hope that they
work at it like we do.
1401
00:59:18,001 --> 00:59:20,561
- That's better, thank you.
1402
00:59:20,561 --> 00:59:21,401
(mellow music)
1403
00:59:21,401 --> 00:59:22,241
- [Michael] In their 20s,
1404
00:59:22,241 --> 00:59:25,401
Paul and Sue sold up, bought an old van
1405
00:59:25,401 --> 00:59:27,801
and travelled across Australia.
1406
00:59:27,801 --> 00:59:29,521
- I think it brought us closer together,
1407
00:59:29,521 --> 00:59:30,961
because we really got to know each other
1408
00:59:30,961 --> 00:59:33,001
and relied on each other so much.
1409
00:59:36,481 --> 00:59:37,961
- [Paul] One of the most important things
1410
00:59:37,961 --> 00:59:40,401
we ever did with our children
was spend time with them.
1411
00:59:40,401 --> 00:59:43,441
And particularly, when
you've got holidays,
1412
00:59:43,441 --> 00:59:45,321
to actually, which a lot of parents do,
1413
00:59:45,321 --> 00:59:47,281
go camping with them.
1414
00:59:50,201 --> 00:59:51,441
- [Susan] We've been camping there now,
1415
00:59:51,441 --> 00:59:53,401
we've actually went to that for 19 years,
1416
00:59:53,401 --> 00:59:55,721
'cause Robert was two
when we first went there.
1417
00:59:56,601 --> 00:59:58,161
- [Michael] So does this beat the old van?
1418
00:59:58,161 --> 01:00:00,121
- [Susan] This is the Hilton
compared to that old van.
1419
01:00:00,121 --> 01:00:01,441
- [Michael] So you've got any plans
1420
01:00:01,441 --> 01:00:04,001
for any big trips now
the children have gone?
1421
01:00:04,001 --> 01:00:05,681
- I think we'd like to do something again
1422
01:00:05,681 --> 01:00:08,401
but you need to have the finances
1423
01:00:08,401 --> 01:00:10,961
to support yourself for a few months.
1424
01:00:10,961 --> 01:00:14,761
- The monitors opened the
washroom, sendin' us out,
1425
01:00:14,761 --> 01:00:18,401
well, there's no talking,
and I wasn't talking today.
1426
01:00:20,201 --> 01:00:24,001
I'm more at peace around
the horses and the animals.
1427
01:00:25,481 --> 01:00:28,321
I can be upset, I can be on
edge, come down to the horses,
1428
01:00:28,321 --> 01:00:30,321
within three or four
minutes of being here,
1429
01:00:30,321 --> 01:00:32,721
and I've forgotten everything,
1430
01:00:32,721 --> 01:00:34,121
so it does calm you down.
1431
01:00:36,641 --> 01:00:38,401
- [Michael] So last time I
came, you had the horses.
1432
01:00:38,401 --> 01:00:40,041
What's happened to the horses?
1433
01:00:41,121 --> 01:00:44,521
- Well, we gave Poykin away to some people
1434
01:00:44,521 --> 01:00:47,641
because it was a little bit expensive
1435
01:00:47,641 --> 01:00:49,921
and also the fun went
out of it, basically.
1436
01:00:51,041 --> 01:00:52,721
- [Michael] How do you get that peace now?
1437
01:00:52,721 --> 01:00:55,281
- Well, I think I got it through running.
1438
01:00:58,681 --> 01:01:01,441
- [Susan] Well, most Sunday
mornings, we go training.
1439
01:01:01,441 --> 01:01:03,161
When Paul is doing marathons,
1440
01:01:04,121 --> 01:01:06,081
when he's gotta run great distances,
1441
01:01:06,081 --> 01:01:08,481
I follow along with the
bike as a bit of support
1442
01:01:08,481 --> 01:01:12,001
and I take drinks for him so
he doesn't get dehydrated.
1443
01:01:13,321 --> 01:01:16,361
Something we can do
together, so we do that.
1444
01:01:16,361 --> 01:01:19,041
We're not doing any great
distances, we're just,
1445
01:01:19,041 --> 01:01:20,361
I've got an injured knee.
1446
01:01:20,361 --> 01:01:23,321
Just trying to build it up so
it gets used to running again.
1447
01:01:24,161 --> 01:01:26,241
I did the host city marathon,
1448
01:01:26,241 --> 01:01:29,281
was my first marathon I did up in Sydney.
1449
01:01:29,281 --> 01:01:32,961
And I trialled the Olympic
course, and it was open to anyone.
1450
01:01:32,961 --> 01:01:36,241
So I figured if you were
gonna do a marathon,
1451
01:01:36,241 --> 01:01:39,481
that'd be the one to do.
1452
01:01:39,481 --> 01:01:43,041
Nearly died, but I enjoyed it. (laughing)
1453
01:01:43,041 --> 01:01:44,601
My idea of happiness to me
1454
01:01:44,601 --> 01:01:48,401
is a love for life and a love for people.
1455
01:01:49,281 --> 01:01:50,401
- [Michael] When you
look back on the marriage
1456
01:01:50,401 --> 01:01:52,841
and the family, any regrets?
1457
01:01:52,841 --> 01:01:55,481
- No, we wish we'd had more
children, but then who knows?
1458
01:01:55,481 --> 01:01:57,961
If we'd had them, might
have gone, no, too many.
1459
01:01:57,961 --> 01:02:01,081
- We might be both in the nuthouse.
1460
01:02:02,801 --> 01:02:04,841
- [Paul] But without a
family, what have you got?
1461
01:02:04,841 --> 01:02:06,441
Nothing.
1462
01:02:06,441 --> 01:02:08,881
Well, that's the way I feel.
1463
01:02:08,881 --> 01:02:10,601
- [Michael] More than
work, more than achieving?
1464
01:02:10,601 --> 01:02:13,401
- [Paul] Yeah, like, what you've got,
1465
01:02:13,401 --> 01:02:14,921
you've got nothing
unless you've got family
1466
01:02:14,921 --> 01:02:16,081
and your health anyway.
1467
01:02:17,521 --> 01:02:20,401
You'd be awfully lonely
without family, I think.
1468
01:02:22,961 --> 01:02:25,281
- [Michael] Tell me, do you
have any boyfriends, Suzy?
1469
01:02:27,321 --> 01:02:28,921
- Yes.
1470
01:02:28,921 --> 01:02:30,761
- [Michael] Tell me about him.
1471
01:02:30,761 --> 01:02:33,881
- He lives up in Scotland,
and I think he's 13.
1472
01:02:36,881 --> 01:02:38,761
- [Michael] Have you got
any boyfriends, Susan?
1473
01:02:42,041 --> 01:02:46,801
What is your attitude towards
marriage for yourself?
1474
01:02:50,841 --> 01:02:51,761
- Well, I don't know.
1475
01:02:51,761 --> 01:02:52,681
I mean, I haven't given
it a lot of thought,
1476
01:02:52,681 --> 01:02:54,601
'cause I am very, very cynical about it.
1477
01:02:58,281 --> 01:03:00,681
But then you get a certain
amount of faith restored in it.
1478
01:03:00,681 --> 01:03:02,161
I mean, I've got friends,
1479
01:03:02,161 --> 01:03:04,801
and their parents are happily married,
1480
01:03:04,801 --> 01:03:06,761
and so it does put faith back into you
1481
01:03:06,761 --> 01:03:09,921
but me myself, I'm very cynical about it.
1482
01:03:09,921 --> 01:03:12,601
- [Michael] When I last saw
you at 21, you were nervous,
1483
01:03:12,601 --> 01:03:14,721
you were chain-smoking, you were uptight,
1484
01:03:14,721 --> 01:03:17,401
and now you seem happy.
1485
01:03:17,401 --> 01:03:20,241
What's happened to you over
these last seven years?
1486
01:03:21,721 --> 01:03:22,681
- I suppose Rupert.
1487
01:03:23,961 --> 01:03:25,281
I'll give you some credit.
1488
01:03:26,681 --> 01:03:29,801
- I'm now chain-smoking. (laughing)
1489
01:03:32,041 --> 01:03:34,921
- No, I think you can't
just walk through a marriage
1490
01:03:34,921 --> 01:03:36,241
and think it's once you get married,
1491
01:03:36,241 --> 01:03:39,401
it's all gonna be roses
and everything forever.
1492
01:03:40,401 --> 01:03:41,761
You know, you have...
1493
01:03:43,921 --> 01:03:47,081
Everybody has their rows but
we've never yet had a row
1494
01:03:47,081 --> 01:03:49,161
that we haven't managed to sort out.
1495
01:03:50,201 --> 01:03:52,401
It's very hard to actually say what it is
1496
01:03:52,401 --> 01:03:54,601
that goes on between a couple,
1497
01:03:54,601 --> 01:03:57,001
it's either there or it's not.
1498
01:03:58,721 --> 01:04:01,201
We've been married 27 years now.
1499
01:04:02,041 --> 01:04:05,361
Any marriage has its ups and downs,
1500
01:04:05,361 --> 01:04:09,681
but somehow, whether it's
through luck or determination,
1501
01:04:09,681 --> 01:04:13,241
we've worked through the difficult times.
1502
01:04:15,961 --> 01:04:18,401
He's just always been there for me,
1503
01:04:18,401 --> 01:04:22,881
and I know I can rely on him.
1504
01:04:22,881 --> 01:04:25,561
And he's my punch bag
1505
01:04:25,561 --> 01:04:29,721
in the same way as I'm
probably his, but it works.
1506
01:04:29,721 --> 01:04:32,561
When I get married, I'd
like to have two children.
1507
01:04:32,561 --> 01:04:35,641
I'm not very children-minded
at the moment.
1508
01:04:35,641 --> 01:04:37,161
I don't know if I ever will be.
1509
01:04:39,521 --> 01:04:40,881
- [Michael] What do you think about them?
1510
01:04:40,881 --> 01:04:43,041
- Oh, I don't like babies.
1511
01:04:45,081 --> 01:04:49,241
- [Michael] At 28, Suzy had
two sons, Thomas and Oliver.
1512
01:04:50,721 --> 01:04:54,441
By the time she was 34,
Suzy had a daughter, Laura.
1513
01:04:55,761 --> 01:04:56,641
- [Boy] Mummy?
1514
01:04:56,641 --> 01:04:57,481
- [Suzy] Yeah?
1515
01:04:57,481 --> 01:04:58,321
- [Boy] I don't want to.
1516
01:04:58,321 --> 01:05:00,041
- [Michael] So what
are the children up to?
1517
01:05:03,001 --> 01:05:05,841
- Tom is living in
London, having graduated,
1518
01:05:05,841 --> 01:05:08,481
and now working and living in London.
1519
01:05:08,481 --> 01:05:10,881
Ollie is working and living at home
1520
01:05:12,041 --> 01:05:14,441
and Laura is doing her AS levels.
1521
01:05:16,201 --> 01:05:20,201
It was difficult when they
first started to move away.
1522
01:05:20,201 --> 01:05:23,281
All those memories of
the children growing up.
1523
01:05:23,281 --> 01:05:24,961
It's like a closed chapter now,
1524
01:05:24,961 --> 01:05:27,921
'cause you can't bring those days back.
1525
01:05:31,041 --> 01:05:32,801
I think what I admire
about the young today
1526
01:05:32,801 --> 01:05:37,561
is their confidence, and
that's what I wished I'd had.
1527
01:05:37,561 --> 01:05:42,481
They just seem to take
life and deal with it.
1528
01:05:45,641 --> 01:05:47,521
- [Michael] What sort of things do you do?
1529
01:05:47,521 --> 01:05:50,801
- Ride, swim, play tennis, ping-pong.
1530
01:05:53,361 --> 01:05:57,081
And I might play croquet,
anything like that.
1531
01:05:57,081 --> 01:05:59,481
(mellow piano music)
1532
01:05:59,481 --> 01:06:01,361
- I did have a privileged childhood,
1533
01:06:02,641 --> 01:06:05,881
but you have to take
responsibility for your life
1534
01:06:05,881 --> 01:06:07,961
somewhere along the line,
1535
01:06:07,961 --> 01:06:11,441
and some people take
responsibility earlier than others.
1536
01:06:11,441 --> 01:06:13,361
I was just a bit later taking it.
1537
01:06:15,881 --> 01:06:19,401
Maybe now is the first time
1538
01:06:19,401 --> 01:06:23,641
that I actually feel
happy within my own skin.
1539
01:06:23,641 --> 01:06:27,161
It's taken me a long time to do it,
1540
01:06:28,121 --> 01:06:29,561
but I actually feel
1541
01:06:30,641 --> 01:06:32,401
that I can accept decisions,
1542
01:06:32,401 --> 01:06:35,841
wrong decisions, possibly,
that I've made in the past,
1543
01:06:35,841 --> 01:06:37,161
I am comfortable with it now.
1544
01:06:37,161 --> 01:06:38,161
I can live with it.
1545
01:06:40,161 --> 01:06:41,881
- [Michael] So what's it been like for you
1546
01:06:41,881 --> 01:06:43,121
being in these films?
1547
01:06:45,921 --> 01:06:48,041
- Very difficult, very painful.
1548
01:06:50,561 --> 01:06:53,121
Not an experience I've enjoyed in any way.
1549
01:06:54,161 --> 01:06:56,401
Every seven years, it throws up issues
1550
01:06:56,401 --> 01:07:01,401
that I guess we all learn
to put into compartments
1551
01:07:01,561 --> 01:07:02,561
between the seven years,
1552
01:07:02,561 --> 01:07:05,921
and then it all gets opened
up again, and it's difficult.
1553
01:07:06,841 --> 01:07:09,161
(children chattering)
1554
01:07:09,161 --> 01:07:10,441
We were all landed in it,
1555
01:07:10,441 --> 01:07:13,481
and most of us have, whatever reason,
1556
01:07:13,481 --> 01:07:15,041
chosen to go through with it.
1557
01:07:17,721 --> 01:07:20,041
I'm not an outgoing, confident person.
1558
01:07:21,841 --> 01:07:23,041
I like my privacy.
1559
01:07:23,041 --> 01:07:28,001
I don't like however many million people
1560
01:07:28,001 --> 01:07:29,921
picking over my life.
1561
01:07:32,401 --> 01:07:34,041
- [Michael] And is that
what they do, do you think?
1562
01:07:35,961 --> 01:07:37,721
- I should think for a
couple of minutes, yes,
1563
01:07:37,721 --> 01:07:39,641
and then it's yesterday's news.
1564
01:07:42,481 --> 01:07:47,481
And people seem to read into
what they think we all think,
1565
01:07:47,481 --> 01:07:50,561
which I find very hurtful, really,
1566
01:07:50,561 --> 01:07:53,321
'cause most of them come up
with things that they think,
1567
01:07:53,321 --> 01:07:55,881
which is nothing like what's
going through my head.
1568
01:07:56,721 --> 01:07:59,241
Oh, so she might be all right.
1569
01:08:00,081 --> 01:08:03,561
What's the point of people sort
of going into people's lives
1570
01:08:03,561 --> 01:08:05,001
and saying, "Why do you like
this?" and, "Why don't you?"
1571
01:08:05,001 --> 01:08:06,601
I just don't see any point in it.
1572
01:08:06,601 --> 01:08:09,721
- [Michael] So have you had
enough of being in the film?
1573
01:08:09,721 --> 01:08:11,401
- I mean, who knows in seven years
1574
01:08:11,401 --> 01:08:16,401
whether it'll be done again but this is me
1575
01:08:17,321 --> 01:08:21,721
saying hopefully, I'll reach
my half-century next year,
1576
01:08:21,721 --> 01:08:24,281
and I shall bow out.
1577
01:08:25,241 --> 01:08:28,761
(children laughing)
1578
01:08:28,761 --> 01:08:30,601
- [Michael] And what
about the other children,
1579
01:08:30,601 --> 01:08:33,041
where are they now, what are they doing?
1580
01:08:33,921 --> 01:08:38,081
- If I can change the world
I'd change into a diamond.
1581
01:08:38,081 --> 01:08:39,601
I don't really think
that I've done anything
1582
01:08:39,601 --> 01:08:41,561
you can call a great success.
1583
01:08:41,561 --> 01:08:44,841
- When I was born, an illegitimate child,
1584
01:08:44,841 --> 01:08:48,681
that something's only whispered about.
1585
01:08:49,521 --> 01:08:51,601
- I'm going to work in Woolworths.
1586
01:08:51,601 --> 01:08:55,161
At times you think
Christ what have I done?
1587
01:08:55,161 --> 01:08:58,201
- I read the "Financial times".
1588
01:08:58,201 --> 01:09:00,441
- I read "The Observer" and "The Times".
1589
01:09:00,441 --> 01:09:03,521
It's very irresponsible
because we all want more money,
1590
01:09:03,521 --> 01:09:05,641
as much money as we can get.
1591
01:09:05,641 --> 01:09:07,921
- When I grow up I want to be an astronaut
1592
01:09:07,921 --> 01:09:09,721
but if I can't be an astronaut,
1593
01:09:09,721 --> 01:09:12,601
I think I'll be a coach driver.
1594
01:09:12,601 --> 01:09:14,961
I tend to think most likely answer
1595
01:09:14,961 --> 01:09:16,481
is that I'll be wandering homeless
1596
01:09:16,481 --> 01:09:18,561
round the streets of London
1597
01:09:18,561 --> 01:09:21,441
but with a bit of luck, that won't happen.
1598
01:09:21,441 --> 01:09:22,561
(lively music)
1599
01:09:22,561 --> 01:09:25,721
- [Michael] Is Neil still
wandering alone through Britain?
1600
01:09:25,721 --> 01:09:27,161
Find out next week.
1601
01:09:28,321 --> 01:09:31,761
(tense orchestral music)
115486
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