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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:12,074 Support us and become VIP member to remove all ads from www.OpenSubtitles.org 2 00:00:28,928 --> 00:00:32,699 Eighty-five years ago, in a remote corner of Tibet, 3 00:00:33,533 --> 00:00:36,536 a little boy was born to a poor farming family. 4 00:00:39,939 --> 00:00:41,875 One day, miraculously, 5 00:00:41,875 --> 00:00:43,243 he was discovered 6 00:00:43,243 --> 00:00:46,546 to be the reincarnation of the 13th Dalai Lama, 7 00:00:47,047 --> 00:00:50,183 and he was soon carried away to the capital city of Lhasa, 8 00:00:50,517 --> 00:00:53,553 to become the next political and spiritual leader, 9 00:00:53,553 --> 00:00:55,989 of the vast kingdom of Tibet. 10 00:00:58,091 --> 00:00:59,759 But the little boy had a secret, 11 00:00:59,759 --> 00:01:01,361 locked inside his heart. 12 00:01:29,556 --> 00:01:32,358 Since my childhood, I love technology. 13 00:01:34,094 --> 00:01:36,262 If I had not become the Dalai Lama 14 00:01:36,262 --> 00:01:39,432 and I still remain in my native place, 15 00:01:39,799 --> 00:01:42,168 then eventually so I may be 16 00:01:42,168 --> 00:01:44,704 engineer or electrician. Since childhood, 17 00:01:44,704 --> 00:01:46,306 always a curiosity. 18 00:01:46,306 --> 00:01:48,541 Something, new things to see, 19 00:01:48,541 --> 00:01:50,310 I always developed the question, 20 00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:52,378 Why? Why? How? How? Always happen. 21 00:01:53,179 --> 00:01:55,748 I think real introducer about technology 22 00:01:55,982 --> 00:01:58,251 is some small toy, 23 00:02:00,019 --> 00:02:01,387 small machines. 24 00:02:01,387 --> 00:02:03,556 Then I play a few moments, 25 00:02:03,556 --> 00:02:06,593 and then out of my curiosity 26 00:02:06,593 --> 00:02:09,395 I always open, dismantle. 27 00:02:11,731 --> 00:02:15,602 I think maybe fifty/fifty chance to re-assemble. 28 00:02:15,602 --> 00:02:17,470 Fifty failed. 29 00:02:19,873 --> 00:02:23,042 And then, actually not much interest for study. 30 00:02:23,042 --> 00:02:26,980 I'm really very, very lazy student. 31 00:02:26,980 --> 00:02:29,115 I always prefer play. 32 00:02:29,649 --> 00:02:32,318 One movie projector which belonged to 13th Dalai Lama -- 33 00:02:32,318 --> 00:02:35,288 because it's now quite old so, 34 00:02:35,288 --> 00:02:37,390 quite often you see, broke down. 35 00:02:37,824 --> 00:02:41,661 Small dynamo, produce electricity. 36 00:02:41,661 --> 00:02:47,267 Then I begin to realize AC, DC, how it works. 37 00:02:47,567 --> 00:02:50,336 So then gradually, you see, developed 38 00:02:50,336 --> 00:02:52,438 interest about science. 39 00:02:54,941 --> 00:02:59,546 I have a keen interest about cosmology. 40 00:03:01,648 --> 00:03:02,949 My telescope, 41 00:03:02,949 --> 00:03:06,653 I used to use it to look at the moon. 42 00:03:07,654 --> 00:03:11,658 Then I found some rock mountains. 43 00:03:12,358 --> 00:03:15,061 Western side, shadow there. 44 00:03:15,061 --> 00:03:16,996 East side, no shadow. 45 00:03:17,163 --> 00:03:21,234 Moon, no light. 46 00:03:22,202 --> 00:03:25,171 But light only from sun. 47 00:03:26,072 --> 00:03:26,773 Clear. 48 00:03:26,773 --> 00:03:29,542 One full moon night, 49 00:03:31,010 --> 00:03:33,413 I arrange my telescope. 50 00:03:33,746 --> 00:03:37,383 And I invited my tutors, 51 00:03:38,785 --> 00:03:42,322 "Please look whether light come from sun." 52 00:03:43,022 --> 00:03:46,326 So they seriously watch, 53 00:03:46,326 --> 00:03:48,995 and then agree, "Yes." 54 00:03:48,995 --> 00:03:51,931 "Moon -- no light. Light come from sun." 55 00:03:52,265 --> 00:03:57,570 So then, 1954, when I was in Peking, China, 56 00:03:57,570 --> 00:04:03,743 we visit huge hydroelectricity factory. 57 00:04:03,743 --> 00:04:05,578 I have sort of keen interest 58 00:04:05,578 --> 00:04:10,650 and then asking some questions to those engineer, 59 00:04:10,650 --> 00:04:13,186 or electrician, electrician right? 60 00:04:14,287 --> 00:04:18,324 About the differences of AC and DC, and these things. 61 00:04:18,324 --> 00:04:21,327 And then also you see different sort of factories. 62 00:04:21,461 --> 00:04:23,763 I think I was the only person 63 00:04:23,763 --> 00:04:28,801 fully alert to see how it work. 64 00:04:31,504 --> 00:04:34,207 The Communist Chinese army entered Tibet 65 00:04:34,207 --> 00:04:37,176 in 1950, and despite the many months 66 00:04:37,176 --> 00:04:39,078 that the young Dalai Lama spent in 67 00:04:39,078 --> 00:04:40,880 high level meetings in Beijing, 68 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,215 when he returned to Lhasa, 69 00:04:42,215 --> 00:04:45,585 negotiations with Chinese government leaders 70 00:04:45,585 --> 00:04:47,153 soon began to fail, 71 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,455 and tensions started to rise. 72 00:04:50,490 --> 00:04:51,557 In 1959, 73 00:04:52,225 --> 00:04:54,827 rumors of a Chinese government plot 74 00:04:54,827 --> 00:04:56,596 to kidnap the Dalai Lama caused 75 00:04:56,596 --> 00:04:59,265 300,000 Tibetan people 76 00:04:59,265 --> 00:05:01,934 to surround the Dalai Lama's palace, 77 00:05:01,934 --> 00:05:04,971 creating a human wall to protect him. 78 00:05:04,971 --> 00:05:07,373 The Dalai Lama was able to secretly leave 79 00:05:07,373 --> 00:05:09,976 in the middle of the night in a daring escape. 80 00:05:10,843 --> 00:05:14,981 Four days later, the Chinese army took action 81 00:05:14,981 --> 00:05:16,883 to disperse the crowd around the palace, 82 00:05:17,183 --> 00:05:20,053 and fighting broke out in Lhasa. 83 00:05:20,053 --> 00:05:23,189 This fighting soon spread across Tibet, 84 00:05:23,189 --> 00:05:25,792 and thousands died in the aftermath. 85 00:05:29,696 --> 00:05:32,899 Many Tibetan families escaped from Tibet 86 00:05:32,899 --> 00:05:34,500 to join the Dalai Lama in India, 87 00:05:34,500 --> 00:05:37,837 where Prime Minister Nehru had granted him land. 88 00:05:38,404 --> 00:05:43,409 At the age of sixteen, I lost my freedom. 89 00:05:43,409 --> 00:05:48,648 At the age of twenty-four, I lost my own country. 90 00:05:49,782 --> 00:05:51,851 And yet, over time, 91 00:05:51,851 --> 00:05:54,320 he was able to create one of the most 92 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,090 successful refugee communities in the world, 93 00:05:57,090 --> 00:05:59,225 run by a democratically elected 94 00:05:59,225 --> 00:06:00,727 Tibetan government in exile, 95 00:06:00,727 --> 00:06:03,529 with the rebuilding of the monasteries, 96 00:06:03,529 --> 00:06:04,731 now in India, 97 00:06:04,731 --> 00:06:06,532 and with the preservation of Tibet's 98 00:06:06,532 --> 00:06:08,101 unique Buddhist science, 99 00:06:08,101 --> 00:06:10,436 philosophy, spiritual traditions, 100 00:06:10,436 --> 00:06:12,939 language and culture. 101 00:06:17,043 --> 00:06:18,911 Gradually, the Dalai Lama began 102 00:06:18,911 --> 00:06:19,879 to have opportunities 103 00:06:19,879 --> 00:06:22,448 to begin meeting with leading scientists. 104 00:06:23,416 --> 00:06:24,817 David Bohm, 105 00:06:25,752 --> 00:06:26,753 Von Weizsacker, 106 00:06:27,019 --> 00:06:28,654 and some other, 107 00:06:29,288 --> 00:06:30,690 great scientists. 108 00:06:33,159 --> 00:06:35,528 These people become my friend, 109 00:06:35,528 --> 00:06:37,597 and not only friend, 110 00:06:37,597 --> 00:06:40,233 but Von Weizsacker and David Bohm, 111 00:06:40,233 --> 00:06:44,971 I consider my own teacher of physics, 112 00:06:45,671 --> 00:06:47,907 generally, and particularly quantum physics. 113 00:06:48,107 --> 00:06:50,777 But science is always seen as measurement, 114 00:06:51,177 --> 00:06:53,246 is that no longer true? 115 00:06:53,246 --> 00:06:55,948 Well, science is whatever people make of it. 116 00:06:55,948 --> 00:06:57,617 You see, science has changed over the ages, 117 00:06:57,617 --> 00:06:59,986 and it's different now from a few hundred years ago, 118 00:06:59,986 --> 00:07:01,654 and it could be different again. 119 00:07:01,654 --> 00:07:04,357 Now, there's no intrinsic reason 120 00:07:04,357 --> 00:07:06,993 why science must necessarily be measurement. 121 00:07:06,993 --> 00:07:09,595 This is another historical development 122 00:07:09,595 --> 00:07:12,131 which has come about over the past few centuries 123 00:07:12,131 --> 00:07:14,834 that is entirely contingent and not absolutely necessary. 124 00:07:15,935 --> 00:07:19,071 And when Einstein produced his special theory, 125 00:07:19,071 --> 00:07:21,674 which The Times newspaper of London 126 00:07:21,674 --> 00:07:24,310 dismissed as being nonsense, um, 127 00:07:24,811 --> 00:07:27,847 was he moving towards wholeness? 128 00:07:27,847 --> 00:07:29,315 Yes. He definitely was. 129 00:07:29,315 --> 00:07:32,084 As he moved eventually toward 130 00:07:32,084 --> 00:07:33,686 a view of field theory where everything 131 00:07:33,686 --> 00:07:36,489 was one field, all the fields merging. 132 00:07:36,789 --> 00:07:38,591 So, it was a step toward wholeness 133 00:07:38,591 --> 00:07:40,626 although not, you know, it was a limited step 134 00:07:40,626 --> 00:07:41,861 but still it was the beginning. 135 00:07:41,928 --> 00:07:44,397 David Bohm and Carl Von Weizsacker 136 00:07:44,397 --> 00:07:45,998 explained that the great minds 137 00:07:45,998 --> 00:07:48,634 which created the current field of quantum physics 138 00:07:48,634 --> 00:07:50,269 at the turn of the century, 139 00:07:50,269 --> 00:07:52,805 Einstein, Bohr, and others, 140 00:07:52,805 --> 00:07:54,941 created their groundbreaking theories 141 00:07:54,941 --> 00:07:57,009 through thought experiments alone, 142 00:07:57,009 --> 00:07:59,879 not by carrying out experiments in the lab -- 143 00:07:59,879 --> 00:08:02,114 thought experiments which were similar 144 00:08:02,114 --> 00:08:04,116 to those created by leading scholars 145 00:08:04,116 --> 00:08:06,953 in the various schools of Tibetan science. 146 00:08:07,386 --> 00:08:10,756 Physics, like quantum physics, 147 00:08:10,756 --> 00:08:12,291 very similar 148 00:08:12,291 --> 00:08:14,827 the Madhyamaka philosophistic view. 149 00:08:15,194 --> 00:08:17,697 Nothing exists objectively. 150 00:08:18,731 --> 00:08:19,699 Wonderful. 151 00:08:19,999 --> 00:08:21,467 After that visit, 152 00:08:21,467 --> 00:08:23,970 the Dalai Lama met with a new group of scientists. 153 00:08:24,370 --> 00:08:27,773 I met His Holiness in '83 at an international conference. 154 00:08:27,773 --> 00:08:32,778 Immediately the charm, his keen intelligence, 155 00:08:32,778 --> 00:08:35,147 and totally unassuming, 156 00:08:35,147 --> 00:08:36,983 just pure interest, 157 00:08:36,983 --> 00:08:38,651 I was very touched by that. 158 00:08:38,651 --> 00:08:40,086 And we were in the middle of this conversation 159 00:08:40,086 --> 00:08:43,222 and his assistants were pulling him by the arm, 160 00:08:43,222 --> 00:08:44,624 "Your Holiness, let's go." 161 00:08:44,624 --> 00:08:46,325 And then he said, "Why don't you 162 00:08:46,325 --> 00:08:48,060 come to Dharamsala 163 00:08:48,060 --> 00:08:50,296 and we can continue these discussions." 164 00:08:52,698 --> 00:08:55,801 It was in February of 1985 165 00:08:55,801 --> 00:08:58,638 that a phone rang, "I'm Francisco Varela, 166 00:08:58,638 --> 00:08:59,805 I'm calling from Paris. 167 00:08:59,805 --> 00:09:02,174 I understand that you're trying to put together 168 00:09:02,174 --> 00:09:04,110 a science meeting with the Dalai Lama." 169 00:09:04,277 --> 00:09:06,612 I was a friend of Francisco Varela's 170 00:09:06,612 --> 00:09:08,981 and Adam Engle came down to the Ojai Foundation 171 00:09:08,981 --> 00:09:12,451 and met with us and we sat under this big oak tree 172 00:09:12,451 --> 00:09:16,355 and we discussed connection between interests 173 00:09:16,355 --> 00:09:18,157 that Francisco and I had 174 00:09:18,157 --> 00:09:21,060 and what Adam and Michael Sautman wanted to do. 175 00:09:21,060 --> 00:09:23,396 And I remember really clearly he said, "Adam," 176 00:09:23,396 --> 00:09:27,033 he said, "don't do physics, do cognitive science." 177 00:09:27,833 --> 00:09:31,037 It was a really good fit between Adam and Francisco. 178 00:09:31,304 --> 00:09:33,039 They had complementary skills 179 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:35,274 and so the whole thing began to unfold. 180 00:09:35,274 --> 00:09:37,944 It was very, very extraordinary to watch it. 181 00:09:37,944 --> 00:09:38,911 I mean it happened. 182 00:09:39,078 --> 00:09:42,448 The most interesting things that happen in evolution, 183 00:09:42,448 --> 00:09:44,617 and therefore the most useful things to explain 184 00:09:44,617 --> 00:09:47,987 the diversity of life are internal factors 185 00:09:47,987 --> 00:09:49,655 rather than selective pressures. 186 00:09:49,655 --> 00:09:53,326 Yes, it is true that if the planet goes very cold 187 00:09:53,326 --> 00:09:54,827 animals have to change. 188 00:09:54,827 --> 00:09:56,429 But, how they change, 189 00:09:56,429 --> 00:09:57,730 how they go about it, 190 00:09:57,730 --> 00:10:00,066 is the result of internal factors, 191 00:10:00,066 --> 00:10:02,802 much more so than external factors. 192 00:10:03,235 --> 00:10:05,271 It is as if external factors 193 00:10:05,271 --> 00:10:08,007 impose very broad constraints 194 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,276 but do not, cannot possibly 195 00:10:10,276 --> 00:10:12,278 determine what will happen. 196 00:10:12,278 --> 00:10:15,514 And I find this very interesting because 197 00:10:15,514 --> 00:10:17,883 it's an exact parallel of what we saw 198 00:10:17,883 --> 00:10:20,553 in perception that, yes, we need light 199 00:10:20,553 --> 00:10:22,622 and we need some stimulation in the retina. 200 00:10:22,622 --> 00:10:24,090 Those are the constraints. 201 00:10:24,090 --> 00:10:28,060 But, what we see depends on the internal factors 202 00:10:28,060 --> 00:10:29,829 and the two together give rise 203 00:10:29,829 --> 00:10:32,298 then to some kind of a stable perception. 204 00:10:32,298 --> 00:10:34,934 Well, here it seems to be much the same thing. 205 00:10:34,934 --> 00:10:38,437 The environment gives some kind of constraint on 206 00:10:38,437 --> 00:10:41,741 internal factors, then species and evolution. 207 00:10:42,141 --> 00:10:45,144 His explanation, very clear, 208 00:10:45,144 --> 00:10:46,812 I think very precise. 209 00:10:46,812 --> 00:10:47,780 Very helpful. 210 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,983 A person who have real authority 211 00:10:50,983 --> 00:10:52,585 in certain scientific field, 212 00:10:52,885 --> 00:10:54,387 at the same time, 213 00:10:54,387 --> 00:10:57,456 personally practicing Buddha Dharma, 214 00:10:57,456 --> 00:10:59,158 that's I think quite rare. 215 00:11:00,026 --> 00:11:01,961 So, you see, he can explain 216 00:11:01,961 --> 00:11:05,998 with a more fuller knowledge of both fields, 217 00:11:05,998 --> 00:11:08,434 science and Buddhist philosophy, 218 00:11:08,434 --> 00:11:10,770 so that's very useful, helpful. 219 00:11:10,770 --> 00:11:11,971 Certainly. 220 00:11:12,304 --> 00:11:14,106 There was actually like a huge comet, 221 00:11:15,408 --> 00:11:18,878 but of such dimensions that the just the collision 222 00:11:18,878 --> 00:11:21,947 evaporated the seas so the next, 223 00:11:21,947 --> 00:11:24,817 what was it? I don't know, many years. 224 00:11:24,817 --> 00:11:27,687 It was purely in terms of clouds. 225 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,490 That meant that you know the dramatic impact of life, 226 00:11:31,490 --> 00:11:34,160 at that point, life virtually was abolished. 227 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:35,127 Who stayed? 228 00:11:35,127 --> 00:11:37,663 As I mentioned yesterday, our little friends. 229 00:11:39,065 --> 00:11:40,166 They were untouched. 230 00:11:44,370 --> 00:11:47,073 We might wipe ourselves out of the planet, 231 00:11:47,073 --> 00:11:48,741 with atomic bombs, 232 00:11:48,741 --> 00:11:51,944 and that probably wouldn't end life on the planet. 233 00:11:52,344 --> 00:11:56,048 So, in fact, from that point of view you can reverse 234 00:11:56,048 --> 00:11:58,684 the tree and put the bacteria on top. 235 00:11:58,684 --> 00:11:59,852 They are the best. 236 00:11:59,852 --> 00:12:02,521 We are very so/so 237 00:12:03,456 --> 00:12:06,926 because in fact we have made our environment so fragile. 238 00:12:07,626 --> 00:12:09,695 So, the result -- 239 00:12:09,695 --> 00:12:12,231 I mean these serious discussion with scientists, 240 00:12:13,099 --> 00:12:17,069 then it became clear, this kind 241 00:12:17,069 --> 00:12:21,040 of discussion with scientists is mutual benefit. 242 00:12:22,174 --> 00:12:24,143 And then after it was over, 243 00:12:24,143 --> 00:12:25,311 I looked at His Holiness again 244 00:12:25,311 --> 00:12:26,512 and I said, "well you want to do it again?" 245 00:12:26,512 --> 00:12:27,480 And he said, "yes." 246 00:12:31,684 --> 00:12:34,253 On the day of the second meeting, 247 00:12:34,253 --> 00:12:36,922 we got a call from Oslo, Norway. 248 00:12:36,922 --> 00:12:40,392 The Dalai Lama had just won the Nobel Peace Prize. 249 00:12:52,338 --> 00:12:55,341 ...and I will call on you as you raise your hand. 250 00:12:55,341 --> 00:12:56,609 We're open for questions. 251 00:12:56,609 --> 00:12:58,778 Why do you think you were chosen for this prize? 252 00:12:58,778 --> 00:12:59,912 And don't be humble. 253 00:13:02,214 --> 00:13:03,883 I think as I mentioned earlier 254 00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:06,919 I think last thirty years, 255 00:13:08,187 --> 00:13:09,188 become refugee, 256 00:13:10,189 --> 00:13:10,890 you see, 257 00:13:10,890 --> 00:13:12,224 desperate situation. 258 00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:16,128 Yet, I follow 259 00:13:17,663 --> 00:13:20,800 strictly, with my own, how do you say, 260 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,101 according to my own principle -- 261 00:13:23,202 --> 00:13:24,203 non-violence. 262 00:13:26,472 --> 00:13:28,507 I think that is the main reason. 263 00:13:28,607 --> 00:13:29,608 Later on, 264 00:13:29,608 --> 00:13:31,544 I learned that some of his advisors 265 00:13:31,544 --> 00:13:33,112 had said, "you have to cancel 266 00:13:33,112 --> 00:13:34,480 this science conference, 267 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,715 because this is a great opportunity." 268 00:13:36,715 --> 00:13:38,450 But, he refused to do so. 269 00:13:39,385 --> 00:13:41,687 His commitment was to the scientists. 270 00:13:42,188 --> 00:13:43,189 Here he was, 271 00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:45,558 he'd just won the Nobel Prize, 272 00:13:45,558 --> 00:13:47,593 and he was still perfectly present, 273 00:13:47,593 --> 00:13:48,561 calm, 274 00:13:48,561 --> 00:13:49,562 steady, 275 00:13:49,562 --> 00:13:50,563 impressive. 276 00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:57,670 The vast majority of scientists were skeptical. 277 00:13:58,037 --> 00:14:00,039 Now when I first sat down with the Dalai Lama, 278 00:14:00,039 --> 00:14:02,208 it was actually quite surprising. 279 00:14:02,208 --> 00:14:05,744 See, I had the stereotyped vision 280 00:14:05,744 --> 00:14:09,048 of an Asian spiritual master 281 00:14:09,048 --> 00:14:11,817 as kind of floating on a cloud. 282 00:14:11,817 --> 00:14:14,453 They're going to be transcendent. 283 00:14:14,453 --> 00:14:16,288 Eyes half closed, 284 00:14:16,288 --> 00:14:19,525 occasionally saying perhaps inscrutable things, 285 00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:23,095 but, here I'm sitting down across from him, 286 00:14:23,095 --> 00:14:26,265 I had this feeling I was across from a wrestler, 287 00:14:26,265 --> 00:14:28,100 intellectually. 288 00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:30,669 He was taking my ideas and he was grabbing them, 289 00:14:30,669 --> 00:14:32,905 and testing them. 290 00:14:33,572 --> 00:14:35,741 Now, I would like to show 291 00:14:35,741 --> 00:14:38,277 experimental evidence for the atom. 292 00:14:39,211 --> 00:14:42,281 Are there techniques, like a microscope, 293 00:14:42,281 --> 00:14:44,116 or some technique which will allow 294 00:14:44,116 --> 00:14:46,619 us to see even a single atom. 295 00:14:47,753 --> 00:14:50,089 Now, until very recently this was impossible. 296 00:14:50,089 --> 00:14:53,926 But, within the last ten to fifteen years we now have 297 00:14:53,926 --> 00:14:55,728 very interesting evidence. 298 00:14:56,195 --> 00:14:58,764 There's a laser which comes in 299 00:14:58,764 --> 00:15:02,134 shines on the atom, illuminates the atom. 300 00:15:03,102 --> 00:15:05,004 And then the light is given off. 301 00:15:05,571 --> 00:15:06,872 And we can see it. 302 00:15:07,072 --> 00:15:10,776 You see a tiny, tiny pinpoint of light 303 00:15:10,776 --> 00:15:12,645 from this single atom. 304 00:15:13,646 --> 00:15:14,647 So this looks -- 305 00:15:15,881 --> 00:15:17,349 It is through the telescope? 306 00:15:17,349 --> 00:15:18,284 Or through a microscope? 307 00:15:18,284 --> 00:15:19,985 No, it's with the naked eye. 308 00:15:19,985 --> 00:15:21,353 Naked eye. 309 00:15:26,025 --> 00:15:27,026 It's so bright -- 310 00:15:27,026 --> 00:15:27,993 it's so bright. 311 00:15:28,861 --> 00:15:29,862 Yeah, it's very small 312 00:15:29,862 --> 00:15:31,797 but extremely bright. 313 00:15:31,797 --> 00:15:32,765 Does it move? 314 00:15:32,765 --> 00:15:35,701 No, it's localized in a very small region 315 00:15:35,701 --> 00:15:37,369 a very, very small region. 316 00:15:37,369 --> 00:15:38,337 It's an ion trap. 317 00:15:41,974 --> 00:15:43,442 He would ask something 318 00:15:43,442 --> 00:15:44,843 and throw something back at me 319 00:15:44,843 --> 00:15:45,811 and back and forth. 320 00:15:46,178 --> 00:15:48,414 He's like this, he's got his arms 321 00:15:48,414 --> 00:15:49,815 a little bit outside, 322 00:15:50,149 --> 00:15:51,150 and he's going, 323 00:15:51,150 --> 00:15:52,551 "Hum. Hum." 324 00:15:53,719 --> 00:15:54,720 Hum. 325 00:16:02,695 --> 00:16:05,230 Isn't it the case that the atoms are always 326 00:16:05,230 --> 00:16:08,200 in a constant dynamic flux? 327 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,235 You can ask, "Is it possible 328 00:16:10,235 --> 00:16:13,505 when one comes to an absolute zero temperature, 329 00:16:13,505 --> 00:16:15,741 and you can go no further, 330 00:16:15,741 --> 00:16:20,145 are the atoms completely still? 331 00:16:20,145 --> 00:16:22,247 Classically, the answer would be yes, 332 00:16:22,948 --> 00:16:24,149 in classical physics. 333 00:16:24,149 --> 00:16:27,519 In quantum mechanics, it turns out the answer is no. 334 00:16:29,121 --> 00:16:32,658 Because, quantum mechanically the atoms 335 00:16:32,658 --> 00:16:35,327 must always have a small motion. 336 00:16:36,462 --> 00:16:37,463 This is -- 337 00:16:38,464 --> 00:16:39,465 Yeah. 338 00:16:39,465 --> 00:16:41,066 This is an experimental fact now. 339 00:16:41,066 --> 00:16:43,969 You can watch the motion decrease 340 00:16:43,969 --> 00:16:46,672 until you reach a threshold 341 00:16:46,672 --> 00:16:48,774 and then it flattens out 342 00:16:48,774 --> 00:16:50,709 and the motion continues at that level 343 00:16:50,709 --> 00:16:52,444 no matter how cold you go. 344 00:17:14,333 --> 00:17:15,667 Um, in terms of the Big Bang, 345 00:17:15,667 --> 00:17:17,870 doesn't there need to be something 346 00:17:17,870 --> 00:17:19,605 to kind of ignite the Big Bang? 347 00:17:19,605 --> 00:17:20,839 If it really is a bang of sorts, 348 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:22,508 then there needs to be something 349 00:17:22,508 --> 00:17:24,143 that ignites that Big Bang. 350 00:17:24,143 --> 00:17:28,781 But, if prior to the Big Bang there is, 351 00:17:28,781 --> 00:17:31,517 it is absolutely cold, then how 352 00:17:31,517 --> 00:17:32,818 could there be any ignition? 353 00:17:32,818 --> 00:17:34,186 How could it be anything to catalyse? 354 00:17:34,186 --> 00:17:36,155 I expected somebody who was kind of disconnected 355 00:17:36,155 --> 00:17:37,656 from reality 356 00:17:37,656 --> 00:17:40,993 and in a spiritual fog. 357 00:17:40,993 --> 00:17:44,530 What I found was a person completely present. 358 00:17:44,530 --> 00:17:45,497 Surprising. 359 00:17:50,702 --> 00:17:53,172 Since over thirty years, 360 00:17:54,540 --> 00:17:58,944 we develop serious discussion 361 00:17:58,944 --> 00:18:01,814 with many scientists, 362 00:18:02,214 --> 00:18:04,116 mainly from America. 363 00:18:04,116 --> 00:18:05,117 Five fields - 364 00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:06,351 cosmology, 365 00:18:06,752 --> 00:18:07,753 quantum physics, 366 00:18:08,387 --> 00:18:09,388 psychology, 367 00:18:10,089 --> 00:18:11,090 neuroscience, 368 00:18:11,490 --> 00:18:12,491 then biology. 369 00:18:13,125 --> 00:18:16,428 The dialogues focused in detail on cosmology. 370 00:18:17,396 --> 00:18:18,397 George Greenstein 371 00:18:18,397 --> 00:18:20,065 who is a colleague of mine at Amherst College. 372 00:18:20,632 --> 00:18:23,769 When thinking about the origin of the universe, 373 00:18:23,769 --> 00:18:25,571 we have a lot of facts that we know, 374 00:18:25,571 --> 00:18:28,140 but they lead us to a gigantic question -- 375 00:18:28,140 --> 00:18:32,678 we do not know how to deal with all matter 376 00:18:32,678 --> 00:18:35,114 occupying exactly the same space. 377 00:18:35,647 --> 00:18:38,417 And, we also do not know how to deal 378 00:18:38,417 --> 00:18:40,953 with all matter having infinite energy. 379 00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:43,555 Was the big bang creation, 380 00:18:43,555 --> 00:18:48,460 or was it simply a stage in the evolution of the universe? 381 00:18:48,460 --> 00:18:51,230 Did the universe exist prior to the Big Bang 382 00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:52,498 and pass through this state 383 00:18:52,498 --> 00:18:54,666 and then come into the current state, 384 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,137 or was the universe created at that instant? 385 00:18:58,137 --> 00:19:00,405 So, what do you mean by creation here? 386 00:19:00,405 --> 00:19:03,242 I mean, prior to the Big Bang there was nothing. 387 00:19:03,242 --> 00:19:05,377 After the Big Bang, there was a lot. 388 00:19:07,546 --> 00:19:08,881 So, would you say something 389 00:19:08,881 --> 00:19:10,582 that has caused the event is a creation? 390 00:19:11,817 --> 00:19:12,818 If you say that 391 00:19:12,818 --> 00:19:15,287 the universe is, comes from a cause 392 00:19:15,287 --> 00:19:16,989 would that be considered a creation? 393 00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:19,124 I want to ask you that question. 394 00:19:22,761 --> 00:19:23,762 A third possibility -- 395 00:19:24,730 --> 00:19:27,499 the universe existed, contracted to a bounce, 396 00:19:27,499 --> 00:19:31,904 expanded, stopped, contracted to another bounce, 397 00:19:32,538 --> 00:19:34,139 and this way endlessly. 398 00:19:34,439 --> 00:19:36,708 An endless series of cycles. 399 00:19:41,647 --> 00:19:42,648 Beginning-less. 400 00:19:43,315 --> 00:19:45,517 So to relate this story 401 00:19:45,517 --> 00:19:47,686 in that you told us the different options 402 00:19:47,686 --> 00:19:49,688 that speculations that physicists have 403 00:19:49,688 --> 00:19:53,325 come up with, the Buddhist position 404 00:19:53,325 --> 00:19:55,527 seems to be much closer to the third option 405 00:19:55,527 --> 00:19:58,096 where there is this constant expansion 406 00:19:58,096 --> 00:20:00,532 and shrinking and then coming into being again. 407 00:20:00,532 --> 00:20:02,935 This repeated dissolution 408 00:20:02,935 --> 00:20:04,803 and the origination of the universe. 409 00:20:04,803 --> 00:20:06,605 One thing that we need to bear in mind 410 00:20:06,605 --> 00:20:11,476 is that this idea in a repeated kind of dissolution 411 00:20:11,476 --> 00:20:13,278 and origination of the universe 412 00:20:13,278 --> 00:20:15,781 does not necessarily suggest that 413 00:20:15,781 --> 00:20:18,183 the same kind of universe will come 414 00:20:18,183 --> 00:20:20,385 into existence over and over again. 415 00:20:21,386 --> 00:20:27,092 And also same sort of elements as well. 416 00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:31,296 So, you can envision 417 00:20:31,296 --> 00:20:34,233 a new universe with whole sets 418 00:20:34,233 --> 00:20:36,101 of new properties and elements 419 00:20:36,101 --> 00:20:38,370 that may not be the same 420 00:20:38,370 --> 00:20:40,372 as the one that existed before. 421 00:20:40,372 --> 00:20:42,574 And here of course from the Buddhist 422 00:20:42,574 --> 00:20:44,009 point of view, karma has a role to play. 423 00:20:44,009 --> 00:20:45,377 point of view, karma has a role to play. 424 00:20:45,377 --> 00:20:47,246 One thing I would like to mention, however, 425 00:20:47,246 --> 00:20:50,082 is that the idea of our planet 426 00:20:50,082 --> 00:20:51,650 being the center of the universe, 427 00:20:51,650 --> 00:20:54,386 this anthropocentric, was never in the picture. 428 00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:56,955 From the Sutras, 429 00:20:56,955 --> 00:20:58,423 they speak from the beginning 430 00:20:58,423 --> 00:20:59,992 of billionfold universe. 431 00:20:59,992 --> 00:21:02,127 Ours is a small unit. 432 00:21:02,127 --> 00:21:04,796 A thousand of those being a secondary unit. 433 00:21:04,796 --> 00:21:06,465 A thousand of those secondary units 434 00:21:06,465 --> 00:21:08,066 being a tertiary unit, 435 00:21:08,066 --> 00:21:09,401 that means a billionfold universe. 436 00:21:09,401 --> 00:21:11,236 They speak of universe 437 00:21:11,570 --> 00:21:14,339 being like curtains of lights. 438 00:21:14,339 --> 00:21:16,842 Like horses spouting fires. 439 00:21:16,842 --> 00:21:18,076 Wheels of light. 440 00:21:18,076 --> 00:21:19,444 All these beautiful images 441 00:21:19,444 --> 00:21:20,579 that you seem to be already 442 00:21:20,579 --> 00:21:22,214 looking the Hubble Telescope. 443 00:21:23,248 --> 00:21:25,050 But still, the idea that there was 444 00:21:25,050 --> 00:21:28,754 almost infinite possibilities, universes. 445 00:21:28,754 --> 00:21:30,856 And I know for beginning-less also 446 00:21:30,856 --> 00:21:32,190 there is another thing -- 447 00:21:32,190 --> 00:21:33,625 there must have been life. 448 00:21:33,625 --> 00:21:34,793 There must have been consciousness 449 00:21:34,793 --> 00:21:36,495 in all those billion universe. 450 00:21:36,495 --> 00:21:37,929 So, in a way, our Big Bang 451 00:21:37,929 --> 00:21:39,998 is a very, very small part of history 452 00:21:39,998 --> 00:21:41,133 from that perspective. 453 00:21:46,605 --> 00:21:47,606 His Holiness says that, 454 00:21:47,606 --> 00:21:50,008 he has a hundred percent support 455 00:21:50,008 --> 00:21:52,044 for Matthieu when he contrasts 456 00:21:52,044 --> 00:21:53,812 the problems, the concept, 457 00:21:53,812 --> 00:21:56,682 the imagination problem versus the logical problem, 458 00:21:56,682 --> 00:21:58,317 with respect to beginning 459 00:21:58,317 --> 00:22:00,185 and beginning-lessness. 460 00:22:00,185 --> 00:22:01,520 So, the idea that 461 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:02,487 we can imagine... 462 00:22:02,487 --> 00:22:04,589 it's easier for imagination when we say 463 00:22:04,589 --> 00:22:05,557 that there is a beginning. 464 00:22:05,557 --> 00:22:07,726 But, logically, we have more problem, 465 00:22:07,726 --> 00:22:10,762 but it's harder to imagine when you say, 466 00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:11,997 "it's beginning-less", 467 00:22:11,997 --> 00:22:13,999 but logically that seems to be 468 00:22:13,999 --> 00:22:15,801 more in tune with the reason. 469 00:22:16,101 --> 00:22:17,102 The knowledge 470 00:22:17,102 --> 00:22:19,604 about cosmology, Big Bang, 471 00:22:19,604 --> 00:22:20,572 these things, 472 00:22:21,173 --> 00:22:22,441 in principal, 473 00:22:22,441 --> 00:22:25,477 Buddhist sort of cosmology explanation, 474 00:22:26,645 --> 00:22:27,646 quite similar. 475 00:22:51,670 --> 00:22:56,408 The dialogues also focused on Quantum Physics. 476 00:22:59,277 --> 00:23:01,113 What you see here is a little laser, 477 00:23:01,113 --> 00:23:03,415 which emits light. 478 00:23:03,415 --> 00:23:06,218 These particles go in one after the other, 479 00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:08,320 one after the other, okay? 480 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,489 There's a contradiction here. 481 00:23:10,489 --> 00:23:14,192 On the one hand we have individual particles, 482 00:23:14,192 --> 00:23:18,463 which can go through one slit only at a time. 483 00:23:18,463 --> 00:23:23,468 On the other hand, we have the stripes which indicate 484 00:23:23,468 --> 00:23:26,471 that there are waves which go through both slits. 485 00:23:27,472 --> 00:23:29,775 How can something go through one slit 486 00:23:29,775 --> 00:23:31,943 and through both slits at the same time? 487 00:23:31,943 --> 00:23:33,712 This is now a very important point, 488 00:23:33,712 --> 00:23:35,714 which is new in modern physics, 489 00:23:36,314 --> 00:23:37,349 is that the 490 00:23:37,349 --> 00:23:41,219 observer/experimentalist decides which 491 00:23:41,219 --> 00:23:48,059 of the two features, particle or wave, is reality. 492 00:23:48,660 --> 00:23:53,031 So, the observer has a very strong influence on nature. 493 00:23:53,031 --> 00:23:56,535 There is no reason why in this run of the experiment 494 00:23:56,535 --> 00:23:58,336 you get this result. 495 00:23:58,336 --> 00:24:01,072 And this is really the first time in physics 496 00:24:01,072 --> 00:24:02,674 that you see something like that -- 497 00:24:02,674 --> 00:24:04,376 that we see events 498 00:24:04,376 --> 00:24:08,046 for which we cannot build a chain of reasoning. 499 00:24:08,046 --> 00:24:11,149 Some people even say that what we observe 500 00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:14,119 in the individual quantum event 501 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,155 is a spontaneous act of creation. 502 00:24:18,657 --> 00:24:23,929 So, with this I think I have finished my exposition 503 00:24:23,962 --> 00:24:26,865 of the quantum physics of individual particles. 504 00:24:26,865 --> 00:24:28,633 And as the next one, 505 00:24:28,633 --> 00:24:31,336 I would like to go through the quantum physics 506 00:24:31,336 --> 00:24:34,005 of two or more particles, 507 00:24:34,005 --> 00:24:37,742 which also has its own 508 00:24:37,742 --> 00:24:40,111 deep, deep, uh, mysteries for us. 509 00:24:40,111 --> 00:24:42,714 The notion which we use to describe 510 00:24:42,714 --> 00:24:45,650 connectedness of two particles, 511 00:24:46,351 --> 00:24:48,153 the name is entanglement. 512 00:24:48,153 --> 00:24:50,021 So, the idea is that these two particles 513 00:24:50,021 --> 00:24:52,991 even if they are separated over very large distances, 514 00:24:52,991 --> 00:24:55,861 they always remain one system; 515 00:24:55,861 --> 00:24:58,096 they are not really separated. 516 00:25:06,671 --> 00:25:07,672 So, when you're talking about -- 517 00:25:09,941 --> 00:25:13,144 dependency here, the fact that what happens 518 00:25:13,144 --> 00:25:15,614 here on one side seems to be dependent 519 00:25:15,614 --> 00:25:17,949 on what happens on the other side, 520 00:25:17,949 --> 00:25:21,353 we're not talking in terms of causal dependence, are we? 521 00:25:23,388 --> 00:25:25,090 That is a very deep question. 522 00:25:26,391 --> 00:25:27,392 A little illustration -- 523 00:25:27,392 --> 00:25:30,795 suppose you have two dice and then at some time 524 00:25:30,795 --> 00:25:33,698 you throw a die and your friend throws a die. 525 00:25:33,698 --> 00:25:37,702 And it turns out that even as both of them 526 00:25:37,702 --> 00:25:40,505 are completely random they always keep the same number. 527 00:25:40,505 --> 00:25:41,473 How can that be? 528 00:25:42,374 --> 00:25:44,543 So the idea is that these two particles, 529 00:25:44,543 --> 00:25:47,212 even if they're separated over a very large distance, 530 00:25:48,246 --> 00:25:52,017 they're always, they always remain one system. 531 00:25:52,651 --> 00:25:55,253 They're not really separated in a deep sense. 532 00:25:58,390 --> 00:26:00,325 I'm sorry, are you implying that 533 00:26:00,325 --> 00:26:02,394 the entire universe is internally entangled? 534 00:26:02,394 --> 00:26:04,362 Well that is a nice idea, 535 00:26:04,362 --> 00:26:07,599 but I would not want to take a position on that 536 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:09,134 because as an experimentalist 537 00:26:09,134 --> 00:26:10,602 I would not know how to prove that. 538 00:26:22,314 --> 00:26:23,448 His Holiness was saying, 539 00:26:23,448 --> 00:26:24,983 probably someone who can prove it 540 00:26:24,983 --> 00:26:27,652 will have to be able to live very long 541 00:26:27,652 --> 00:26:28,853 to see the whole thing. 542 00:26:31,856 --> 00:26:33,758 Exactly. They would need a lot of money. 543 00:26:36,828 --> 00:26:38,630 They continued to meet. 544 00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:41,099 You might ask whether everything is the same 545 00:26:41,099 --> 00:26:43,602 or whether something has changed in quantum physics, 546 00:26:44,769 --> 00:26:48,773 and there are actually two important changes. 547 00:26:48,773 --> 00:26:53,411 One change concerns a technical thing happening. 548 00:26:53,411 --> 00:26:56,047 And I know that Your Holiness, 549 00:26:56,047 --> 00:26:57,849 you love technology, 550 00:26:57,849 --> 00:27:01,486 so, I will mention that, 551 00:27:01,486 --> 00:27:04,789 that is the fact that based on these 552 00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:08,827 fundamental questions which we discussed already, 553 00:27:08,827 --> 00:27:12,397 people are developing a new technology 554 00:27:12,397 --> 00:27:16,968 for information and that is really a big surprise. 555 00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:22,173 Now, this is a picture which tries 556 00:27:22,173 --> 00:27:25,744 to indicate the entanglement of many qubits. 557 00:27:25,744 --> 00:27:28,680 Each blue point is supposed to be a qubit 558 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,082 and you have many connections here. 559 00:27:31,082 --> 00:27:34,552 Now, if I measure one qubit 560 00:27:34,552 --> 00:27:38,056 then it changes the whole state. 561 00:27:38,056 --> 00:27:40,492 It does not only change the one I look at, 562 00:27:40,492 --> 00:27:42,761 it changes all the other ones. 563 00:27:42,761 --> 00:27:45,230 When I measure another one, 564 00:27:45,230 --> 00:27:48,933 another qubit, and that changes the rest. 565 00:27:48,933 --> 00:27:50,468 And I keep going 566 00:27:50,468 --> 00:27:53,672 and if I keep going the right way, 567 00:27:53,672 --> 00:27:57,375 in the end I have the solution I want. 568 00:27:57,375 --> 00:28:00,278 This is a completely new way of thinking 569 00:28:00,278 --> 00:28:04,215 about computation, it is different from any computation 570 00:28:04,215 --> 00:28:06,451 people have been talking about. 571 00:28:07,052 --> 00:28:10,488 So, in a sense it's a first technical application of wholeness. 572 00:28:11,122 --> 00:28:13,591 I think this sort of subject is very important. 573 00:28:16,161 --> 00:28:18,697 In any case is it those subjects which often, 574 00:28:18,697 --> 00:28:20,665 you see, create more confusion 575 00:28:20,665 --> 00:28:24,002 that itself is showing it's more complicated. 576 00:28:24,669 --> 00:28:29,074 So really worthwhile, a further discussion. 577 00:28:29,074 --> 00:28:32,043 And I think a discussion between 578 00:28:33,211 --> 00:28:36,481 scientists or specialists in this 579 00:28:36,481 --> 00:28:39,384 particular field and Buddhist, 580 00:28:40,485 --> 00:28:42,353 I prefer young scholars. 581 00:28:43,521 --> 00:28:44,522 They are your team. 582 00:28:45,490 --> 00:28:47,826 Yes. My team, my team, yes. 583 00:28:50,595 --> 00:28:52,130 Now the second point which happened, 584 00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:55,533 which was actually in part encouraged 585 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,037 if not inspired by our earlier discussion, 586 00:28:59,738 --> 00:29:04,275 is some new ideas which we are developing 587 00:29:04,409 --> 00:29:08,079 on the conceptual foundations of quantum mechanics. 588 00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:12,283 We are simply asking, maybe knowing, 589 00:29:12,283 --> 00:29:16,254 maybe knowledge is as fundamental, 590 00:29:16,254 --> 00:29:21,192 or maybe even more fundamental than reality. 591 00:29:21,192 --> 00:29:26,264 We can very well handle these kind of paradoxical situations, 592 00:29:26,264 --> 00:29:29,000 we have been talking about, mathematically, 593 00:29:29,934 --> 00:29:32,804 and we can confirm them in experiments 594 00:29:32,804 --> 00:29:33,772 with very high precision. 595 00:29:34,639 --> 00:29:40,111 But, we still do not know conceptually what is going on. 596 00:29:40,111 --> 00:29:42,280 Why is the world so strange? 597 00:29:42,781 --> 00:29:46,718 And, what I want to see some day 598 00:29:46,718 --> 00:29:49,354 before I pass away that someone explains 599 00:29:49,354 --> 00:29:51,055 to me why it is so strange. 600 00:29:51,823 --> 00:29:54,425 So, I want to, so I want to learn 601 00:29:54,425 --> 00:29:57,395 new concepts and this is a place, 602 00:29:57,395 --> 00:29:59,831 and there were some new concepts brought out 603 00:29:59,831 --> 00:30:02,534 in your discussion which are very interesting 604 00:30:02,534 --> 00:30:05,236 for me, and where I have to think more 605 00:30:05,236 --> 00:30:07,372 and where I hope I learn something 606 00:30:07,372 --> 00:30:12,477 which might even be relevant in helping to understand 607 00:30:12,477 --> 00:30:14,546 some of these phenomena in physics. 608 00:30:17,615 --> 00:30:20,185 So here I will insist on the critique 609 00:30:20,185 --> 00:30:22,821 of the idea of intrinsic existence 610 00:30:22,821 --> 00:30:26,524 and of the idea that they have intrinsic properties. 611 00:30:27,091 --> 00:30:31,796 So to begin with, science made a momentous step 612 00:30:31,796 --> 00:30:35,767 forward as soon as it 613 00:30:35,767 --> 00:30:37,969 understood that certain explanations 614 00:30:37,969 --> 00:30:40,305 have to be given in terms of relations, 615 00:30:40,305 --> 00:30:43,842 rather than in terms of absolute properties. 616 00:30:43,842 --> 00:30:47,345 First example, the Schrodinger cat. 617 00:30:47,345 --> 00:30:50,715 You have a box, and inside the box 618 00:30:50,715 --> 00:30:53,418 the bottle contains poison. 619 00:30:53,418 --> 00:30:56,321 You have a big piece of radioactive material 620 00:30:56,321 --> 00:30:59,023 that has the probability one half 621 00:30:59,023 --> 00:31:00,992 to disintegrate. 622 00:31:00,992 --> 00:31:04,162 The state of the piece of radioactive material 623 00:31:04,162 --> 00:31:08,633 is in the superposition between being disintegrated 624 00:31:08,633 --> 00:31:10,702 and not being disintegrated. 625 00:31:10,702 --> 00:31:13,238 And according to quantum mechanics, 626 00:31:13,238 --> 00:31:16,307 the cat should be half dead and half alive. 627 00:31:16,307 --> 00:31:17,642 But this sounds absurd, 628 00:31:17,642 --> 00:31:19,444 because when you open the box 629 00:31:19,444 --> 00:31:22,614 and see in the box it is not the case, 630 00:31:22,614 --> 00:31:28,019 you see either a dead cat or a cat which is alive. 631 00:31:28,953 --> 00:31:30,788 So, there is a paradox. 632 00:31:30,788 --> 00:31:32,724 And, can I just say, maybe we should add 633 00:31:32,724 --> 00:31:35,026 that there is no cruelty involved here, 634 00:31:35,026 --> 00:31:37,729 because this is a thought experiment. 635 00:31:37,729 --> 00:31:41,866 Thank you, John. Yes this is perfectly right 636 00:31:41,866 --> 00:31:45,904 and I must say I've personally gone to Schrodingers' house. 637 00:31:45,904 --> 00:31:49,440 I've seen in his house that he had many cats 638 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,142 and so he loved cats. 639 00:31:52,477 --> 00:31:56,047 So hopefully not experimented on cats. 640 00:31:56,047 --> 00:31:58,516 Yes, fortunately it's a thought experiment. 641 00:31:58,516 --> 00:32:01,019 Experimenting on cats. 642 00:32:01,552 --> 00:32:02,553 No. 643 00:32:03,054 --> 00:32:04,055 Never! 644 00:32:10,395 --> 00:32:11,796 Perhaps you remember, 645 00:32:11,796 --> 00:32:13,831 we met six years ago at Stanford, 646 00:32:13,831 --> 00:32:18,369 and we had a discussion with a few other people 647 00:32:18,369 --> 00:32:19,737 for morning and lunch 648 00:32:19,737 --> 00:32:22,307 and that was a very important event in my life. 649 00:32:23,107 --> 00:32:27,545 And since coming here I've learned a great deal. 650 00:32:27,545 --> 00:32:31,282 I hope to start by addressing this question 651 00:32:31,282 --> 00:32:33,251 about the nature of matter 652 00:32:33,251 --> 00:32:34,686 and the nature of life. 653 00:32:36,454 --> 00:32:40,258 Now, the single most important thing we know 654 00:32:40,258 --> 00:32:41,693 is that the world is made of atoms. 655 00:32:42,860 --> 00:32:46,597 This is a picture of iron atoms put on a surface 656 00:32:46,597 --> 00:32:48,199 of a piece of metal. 657 00:32:48,199 --> 00:32:51,069 Each of these little bumps is one atom. 658 00:32:51,069 --> 00:32:54,605 You have to get it very, very cold for them to stay. 659 00:33:00,244 --> 00:33:03,014 So, maybe it's too cold to move? 660 00:33:04,782 --> 00:33:06,517 Frozen. 661 00:33:06,517 --> 00:33:11,189 Atoms are made of other particles such as electrons 662 00:33:11,189 --> 00:33:12,457 around the outside. 663 00:33:12,457 --> 00:33:14,225 This is very strange. 664 00:33:14,225 --> 00:33:17,595 Our current understanding of these particles 665 00:33:17,595 --> 00:33:19,397 is they have no size -- 666 00:33:19,397 --> 00:33:22,033 infinitely small, 667 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,136 and we describe the particle 668 00:33:25,136 --> 00:33:28,172 in terms of these field lines, these fields. 669 00:33:28,473 --> 00:33:31,509 If the atom were the size of the earth, 670 00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:33,611 the size of this electron 671 00:33:33,611 --> 00:33:35,713 would be smaller than one millimeter. 672 00:33:36,748 --> 00:33:39,751 So we know it must be smaller than that. 673 00:33:40,618 --> 00:33:42,754 Now, how do we know that? 674 00:33:43,421 --> 00:33:46,991 We actually take electrons 675 00:33:46,991 --> 00:33:50,194 and we throw them at another electron. 676 00:33:50,995 --> 00:33:53,898 And if the electron had size, these particles 677 00:33:53,898 --> 00:33:57,368 of electrons would bounce from them differently 678 00:33:57,368 --> 00:34:00,204 than if the electron was just a point. 679 00:34:00,638 --> 00:34:03,307 And we can mathematically predict which is which 680 00:34:03,307 --> 00:34:07,512 and what we see -- no size, just point. 681 00:34:09,414 --> 00:34:10,915 Whether there is anything, 682 00:34:10,915 --> 00:34:13,284 that is, do they provide any kind of obstruction 683 00:34:13,284 --> 00:34:14,685 to an incoming entity. 684 00:34:14,685 --> 00:34:16,888 And my impression from what you just said is yes, 685 00:34:16,888 --> 00:34:19,057 and that is you can collide two electrons 686 00:34:19,057 --> 00:34:21,526 but they collide as if they were pure points 687 00:34:21,526 --> 00:34:24,262 rather than having any type of spatial dimensionality. 688 00:34:24,262 --> 00:34:26,164 You are absolutely correct. 689 00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:39,811 When we speak of simply the existence of things 690 00:34:39,811 --> 00:34:41,312 in our shared world, 691 00:34:41,312 --> 00:34:43,648 when you posit this, what is actually 692 00:34:43,648 --> 00:34:46,617 the nature of the electron itself independently 693 00:34:46,617 --> 00:34:49,754 of its own parts, that type of ontological analysis, 694 00:34:49,754 --> 00:34:50,721 you don't find it. 695 00:34:50,721 --> 00:34:52,323 So, then you are left with a couple of options, 696 00:34:52,323 --> 00:34:54,725 again you can either say, well, these elementary particles 697 00:34:54,725 --> 00:34:56,461 and so forth all these things that we identify, 698 00:34:56,461 --> 00:34:57,728 they do things. 699 00:34:57,728 --> 00:34:59,664 So to say as they're doing things and things 700 00:34:59,664 --> 00:35:02,366 are done to them that they don't exist is foolishness. 701 00:35:02,366 --> 00:35:06,003 Every property that I know of -- it depends. 702 00:35:06,003 --> 00:35:08,739 So when we say the electron 703 00:35:08,739 --> 00:35:10,274 has these intrinsic properties, 704 00:35:10,274 --> 00:35:12,510 we don't say it has an intrinsic property, 705 00:35:12,510 --> 00:35:15,079 we're not going to talk about the electron as a being. 706 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:17,582 It also includes the interaction, 707 00:35:17,582 --> 00:35:19,183 we have to include the interaction. 708 00:35:19,183 --> 00:35:20,618 Because that's the observation. 709 00:35:20,618 --> 00:35:22,653 Because in order to even observe the electron 710 00:35:22,653 --> 00:35:23,855 we need some interaction. 711 00:35:24,755 --> 00:35:25,857 So in that respect, 712 00:35:26,424 --> 00:35:29,594 I don't think it conflicts with the Buddhist philosophy. 713 00:35:29,594 --> 00:35:32,597 All the others are a matter of the observation it has, 714 00:35:32,597 --> 00:35:34,232 which means it intimately 715 00:35:34,232 --> 00:35:36,067 is connected with the rest of the world. 716 00:35:36,601 --> 00:35:39,137 I don't see a conflict, quite frankly. 717 00:36:04,795 --> 00:36:13,304 I think it may be worthwhile to explain 718 00:36:13,304 --> 00:36:19,143 about basic structure of Buddha Dharma. 719 00:36:22,180 --> 00:36:25,149 Now, I speak in Tibetan. Translate. 720 00:36:29,687 --> 00:36:31,122 After the Buddha's enlightenment, 721 00:36:31,122 --> 00:36:33,858 the Buddha was reluctant to actually give a teaching. 722 00:36:33,858 --> 00:36:36,494 There is a beautiful passage in the scripture 723 00:36:36,494 --> 00:36:38,963 which says that, “Because I fear that 724 00:36:38,963 --> 00:36:42,967 no one will understand, I shall remain non-speaking 725 00:36:42,967 --> 00:36:44,969 and remain in the forest." 726 00:36:44,969 --> 00:36:48,673 All the teachings of the Buddha have been really presented 727 00:36:48,673 --> 00:36:50,641 from the point of view of the two truths, 728 00:36:50,641 --> 00:36:53,177 and he who does not understand the two truths 729 00:36:53,177 --> 00:36:56,414 cannot understand the essence of the Buddha's teaching. 730 00:36:56,414 --> 00:36:59,684 So what we are talking about here is the two levels of reality. 731 00:36:59,684 --> 00:37:02,386 One is the ultimate level of reality which 732 00:37:02,386 --> 00:37:04,989 is the emptiness where nothing can be found. 733 00:37:04,989 --> 00:37:08,759 But there is also another level of reality 734 00:37:08,759 --> 00:37:10,695 which is the conventional relative level 735 00:37:10,695 --> 00:37:13,998 on which causes and effects and everything functions. 736 00:37:13,998 --> 00:37:17,435 And this ability to distinguish between two levels 737 00:37:17,435 --> 00:37:18,836 of reality and two truths 738 00:37:18,836 --> 00:37:21,405 and understanding existence in terms of 739 00:37:21,405 --> 00:37:23,841 these two becomes very important. 740 00:37:23,841 --> 00:37:27,178 In other words Buddha is saying that it's not that nothing exists, 741 00:37:27,178 --> 00:37:29,413 but things don't exist in the way in which 742 00:37:29,413 --> 00:37:31,315 we tend to assume they do. 743 00:37:31,315 --> 00:37:33,718 They don't exist as they appear to us. 744 00:37:37,488 --> 00:37:41,259 This is what quantum physics have also discovered; 745 00:37:41,259 --> 00:37:44,362 as they go deeper into their understanding 746 00:37:44,362 --> 00:37:47,331 of what makes up the physical world, they don't find anything. 747 00:37:47,331 --> 00:37:50,001 So they have come to realize that there is nothing 748 00:37:50,001 --> 00:37:53,371 that supports the objective reality of the material world 749 00:37:53,371 --> 00:37:54,338 that we assume. 750 00:37:54,338 --> 00:37:56,474 In some sense what the quantum physics 751 00:37:56,474 --> 00:37:59,243 have come to is very similar to what 752 00:37:59,243 --> 00:38:01,379 Buddhism has also come to. 753 00:38:01,846 --> 00:38:06,417 And the assumption behind all of this is that if something exists, 754 00:38:06,417 --> 00:38:07,785 it should be findable. 755 00:38:07,785 --> 00:38:11,055 Once you mentally deconstruct 756 00:38:11,055 --> 00:38:14,992 what makes up what seems like an solid thing in front of you, 757 00:38:14,992 --> 00:38:19,130 you'll come to recognize that nothing stands there as the true 758 00:38:19,130 --> 00:38:22,066 referent to which you can point and say, this is it. 759 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,936 So therefore Buddha says that the form is empty. 760 00:38:25,936 --> 00:38:28,906 And then the question arises, does that mean nothing exists? 761 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,742 Then the second presentation is made 762 00:38:31,742 --> 00:38:34,111 which is that emptiness is form. 763 00:38:34,111 --> 00:38:38,316 So you cannot accord a hierarchy of existence 764 00:38:38,316 --> 00:38:43,921 to the matter and mind, both are devoid of intrinsic existence, 765 00:38:43,921 --> 00:38:48,526 but they do both exist on the basis of designation 766 00:38:48,526 --> 00:38:49,894 and causes and conditions. 767 00:38:49,894 --> 00:38:51,495 So they have dependent origination 768 00:38:51,495 --> 00:38:53,564 but they don't have intrinsic existence. 769 00:39:17,655 --> 00:39:19,490 The scientific dialogues 770 00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:22,393 covered the field of cognitive science, as well. 771 00:39:22,393 --> 00:39:25,229 Emotion which is based on ignorance, 772 00:39:25,229 --> 00:39:30,801 such as strong anger, hatred 773 00:39:30,801 --> 00:39:33,904 and also attachment. 774 00:39:33,904 --> 00:39:36,807 One of my American friends, one scientist, 775 00:39:38,309 --> 00:39:43,013 Aaron Beck, he mentioned, when we develop anger, 776 00:39:43,013 --> 00:39:47,952 the object which we feel angry at appears very negative, 777 00:39:47,952 --> 00:39:51,689 but actually, ninety percent of that negative-ness 778 00:39:51,689 --> 00:39:53,257 is mental projection. 779 00:39:55,426 --> 00:39:58,229 What we find is that when we get a negative image 780 00:39:58,229 --> 00:40:02,299 of somebody else and it stays on and on, 781 00:40:03,734 --> 00:40:07,304 we start to attack the other person. 782 00:40:07,304 --> 00:40:10,007 But actually we're attacking the image. 783 00:40:10,007 --> 00:40:13,711 By attacking this image of the person 784 00:40:13,711 --> 00:40:16,080 we're actually injuring a person 785 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,149 who may be nothing like the image. 786 00:40:18,149 --> 00:40:21,018 So the more we have the negative image 787 00:40:21,018 --> 00:40:21,986 of the person, 788 00:40:21,986 --> 00:40:23,988 the more we're going to attack him. 789 00:40:23,988 --> 00:40:26,891 But it's always the image that we're having 790 00:40:26,891 --> 00:40:28,459 that is bothering us, 791 00:40:28,459 --> 00:40:29,860 not the real person. 792 00:40:29,860 --> 00:40:32,363 So we talked about delusion before, 793 00:40:32,363 --> 00:40:35,933 in a way a lot of hatred is based on a delusion. 794 00:40:35,933 --> 00:40:40,871 But it's also between countries, nations, ethnic groups. 795 00:40:40,871 --> 00:40:43,207 They tend to have kind of an image, 796 00:40:43,207 --> 00:40:46,076 a mental image of the other people 797 00:40:46,076 --> 00:40:47,711 as some way subhuman. 798 00:40:48,078 --> 00:40:51,415 Let's say when the Germans would have pictures 799 00:40:51,415 --> 00:40:54,185 of the Russians during World War Two 800 00:40:54,185 --> 00:40:58,856 they'd show the Russians as looking like beasts, 801 00:40:58,856 --> 00:40:59,824 wild beasts. 802 00:41:00,057 --> 00:41:02,993 Then of course the people found it's okay 803 00:41:02,993 --> 00:41:04,662 to shoot wild beasts 804 00:41:04,662 --> 00:41:07,064 because they're not human beings anymore. 805 00:41:07,064 --> 00:41:10,267 So I think a similar Buddhist concept, 806 00:41:10,267 --> 00:41:12,770 all these negative emotions 807 00:41:12,770 --> 00:41:16,340 are based on ignorance or misconception. 808 00:41:16,340 --> 00:41:19,043 Your Holiness if we just depart for one moment, 809 00:41:19,043 --> 00:41:22,480 you mentioned about the broad perspective before, 810 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,682 and I think much of the unhappiness 811 00:41:24,682 --> 00:41:25,850 that individuals have 812 00:41:25,850 --> 00:41:28,185 is because they lose perspective. 813 00:41:28,185 --> 00:41:31,155 And I thought I'd give you an example. 814 00:41:31,155 --> 00:41:33,224 There was some time ago 815 00:41:33,224 --> 00:41:38,329 I was asked to consult about a professor of physics 816 00:41:38,329 --> 00:41:42,666 and he thought that he had made a very great discovery 817 00:41:42,666 --> 00:41:46,003 which might give him the Nobel Prize. 818 00:41:46,003 --> 00:41:49,640 And, um, he got passed over. 819 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,775 He did not get the Nobel Prize 820 00:41:51,775 --> 00:41:54,078 and so he was depressed. 821 00:41:54,078 --> 00:41:55,079 And so I said, 822 00:41:55,079 --> 00:41:59,483 "Well, how important a part of your life was this prize?" 823 00:41:59,483 --> 00:42:02,086 And he said, "A hundred percent." 824 00:42:02,086 --> 00:42:03,621 So I asked him, I said, 825 00:42:03,621 --> 00:42:05,556 "Do you have a family?” 826 00:42:05,556 --> 00:42:06,857 And he said, "Oh yes. 827 00:42:06,857 --> 00:42:09,894 And I said, "Well, how important is your family to you?" 828 00:42:09,894 --> 00:42:14,098 So he said, "My wife -- twenty percent." 829 00:42:14,098 --> 00:42:16,267 And I said, "Do you have children?" 830 00:42:16,267 --> 00:42:18,636 And he said, "Yes, I have three children." 831 00:42:18,636 --> 00:42:21,739 And I said, "How important are they to you?" 832 00:42:21,739 --> 00:42:26,343 And he said, "Oh, I guess they're about forty percent." 833 00:42:26,343 --> 00:42:29,713 And then I said, "Do you get to see your children very much?" 834 00:42:29,713 --> 00:42:34,151 He said, "Well no. I've had so much time working 835 00:42:34,151 --> 00:42:36,587 on my physics project that I really 836 00:42:36,587 --> 00:42:38,355 haven't spent much time with them." 837 00:42:38,355 --> 00:42:40,991 And I said, "How do you feel about that?" 838 00:42:41,659 --> 00:42:44,295 And then he started to weep 839 00:42:44,295 --> 00:42:47,131 and I said, "Why are you weeping?" 840 00:42:47,131 --> 00:42:50,000 He said, "It reminded me when I was growing up, 841 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,771 that's just the way my father was to me. 842 00:42:54,238 --> 00:42:57,441 And so now I suddenly realized 843 00:42:57,441 --> 00:42:59,076 what I am missing out on, 844 00:42:59,076 --> 00:43:01,512 my father missed out on it, and I'm missing out on it 845 00:43:01,512 --> 00:43:03,647 and of course my children are missing out." 846 00:43:03,647 --> 00:43:04,648 So, I said, 847 00:43:04,648 --> 00:43:06,817 "Now how important are your children to you now?" 848 00:43:06,817 --> 00:43:08,719 And he said, "eighty percent." 849 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,655 Anyhow, he left the office 850 00:43:11,655 --> 00:43:13,624 and he wasn't depressed any more. 851 00:43:20,898 --> 00:43:22,933 Oh, very wise. Wise. 852 00:43:22,933 --> 00:43:24,969 I think that method, that method, 853 00:43:24,969 --> 00:43:29,573 that we call exactly analytical meditation. 854 00:43:29,573 --> 00:43:30,541 Oh, really? 855 00:43:30,541 --> 00:43:31,542 Yes. 856 00:43:35,379 --> 00:43:38,582 Sometimes, I express that compared 857 00:43:38,582 --> 00:43:40,317 to ancient Indian psychology, 858 00:43:40,317 --> 00:43:42,519 particularly Buddhist psychology, 859 00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:46,357 modern psychology looks like the kindergarten level. 860 00:43:49,727 --> 00:43:51,929 Well, I'm a secularist. 861 00:43:51,929 --> 00:43:55,265 The only reason I met the Dalai Lama 862 00:43:55,265 --> 00:43:57,368 was because of my daughter. 863 00:43:57,368 --> 00:43:59,336 And I knew that if you got invited 864 00:43:59,336 --> 00:44:02,172 to his palace in Dharamsala 865 00:44:02,172 --> 00:44:04,775 you got to bring a single observer. 866 00:44:04,775 --> 00:44:07,444 And I thought what a kick this would be for my daughter. 867 00:44:07,444 --> 00:44:09,413 And so although I thought this was just another 868 00:44:09,413 --> 00:44:12,683 one of the Bay Area fads, I figured, okay, 869 00:44:12,683 --> 00:44:14,752 I'll make an exception. I'll go. 870 00:44:15,619 --> 00:44:17,588 We start with Paul Ekman, 871 00:44:17,588 --> 00:44:19,623 Professor of Psychology and Director 872 00:44:19,623 --> 00:44:21,525 of the Laboratory for Human Interaction 873 00:44:21,525 --> 00:44:23,527 at the University of California 874 00:44:23,527 --> 00:44:25,529 medical school in San Francisco. 875 00:44:25,529 --> 00:44:28,065 But what you really should know about him 876 00:44:28,065 --> 00:44:30,501 is that he is a master of the face 877 00:44:30,501 --> 00:44:33,904 and of emotions, and of reading emotions, 878 00:44:33,904 --> 00:44:35,773 and he has more than thirty years 879 00:44:35,773 --> 00:44:37,708 of world class research. 880 00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:40,544 For inexplicable reasons, 881 00:44:40,544 --> 00:44:42,379 he and I really connected. 882 00:44:42,379 --> 00:44:44,381 I felt like I'd known him all my life. 883 00:44:45,416 --> 00:44:48,519 And that the function of emotion 884 00:44:48,519 --> 00:44:52,489 is to get us moving, active, 885 00:44:52,489 --> 00:44:55,659 very quickly, without having to think. 886 00:44:55,659 --> 00:44:58,562 But many, many, most of the things 887 00:44:58,562 --> 00:45:01,532 we become emotional about are things 888 00:45:01,532 --> 00:45:04,134 we have learned in the course of growing up. 889 00:45:04,134 --> 00:45:06,270 And the issue which I will get to later 890 00:45:06,270 --> 00:45:08,338 is can we unlearn some of them. 891 00:45:10,607 --> 00:45:14,978 So what I have been doing is trying 892 00:45:14,978 --> 00:45:20,017 to distinguish many different important states, 893 00:45:20,017 --> 00:45:24,955 the emotions, the moods, resentment, hatred. 894 00:45:24,955 --> 00:45:27,991 One of the reasons why we have 895 00:45:27,991 --> 00:45:31,528 so much difficulty once we become emotional 896 00:45:31,528 --> 00:45:36,734 is that the emotion itself enslaves us. 897 00:45:36,734 --> 00:45:41,171 There is what I would like to call a refractory period, 898 00:45:41,171 --> 00:45:43,907 that is a period in which new information 899 00:45:43,907 --> 00:45:48,579 doesn't enter or if it enters it is, interpretation is biased. 900 00:45:49,113 --> 00:45:53,283 Now a refractory period may be only a few seconds, 901 00:45:53,283 --> 00:45:55,486 or it may be much longer. 902 00:45:56,620 --> 00:46:01,458 As long as it's occurring we can't get out of the grip 903 00:46:01,458 --> 00:46:02,459 of that emotion. 904 00:46:02,826 --> 00:46:05,295 I want to say that after um, 905 00:46:06,563 --> 00:46:08,265 spending more than thirty-five 906 00:46:08,265 --> 00:46:09,967 years studying emotion, 907 00:46:09,967 --> 00:46:13,370 I am impressed about how little we still know about it. 908 00:46:15,139 --> 00:46:17,074 When we met and tried to think, 909 00:46:17,074 --> 00:46:18,675 what do we mean by destructive emotions, 910 00:46:18,675 --> 00:46:20,110 we came up with the definition: 911 00:46:20,110 --> 00:46:22,613 emotions that harm self or others. 912 00:46:22,613 --> 00:46:24,648 Your definition is 913 00:46:24,648 --> 00:46:25,349 extremely subtle. 914 00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:27,151 Your definition of destructive emotions 915 00:46:27,151 --> 00:46:29,686 is what disturbs the calm of the mind. 916 00:46:29,686 --> 00:46:30,587 Yes. 917 00:46:31,155 --> 00:46:31,889 I'm Buddhist. 918 00:46:31,889 --> 00:46:34,124 My ultimate goal is Buddhahood. 919 00:46:34,124 --> 00:46:35,626 This is my business. 920 00:46:37,694 --> 00:46:40,364 How can we educate our emotions, 921 00:46:40,364 --> 00:46:44,501 by what means, without becoming Buddhists? 922 00:46:44,501 --> 00:46:45,836 Yes, that’s right. 923 00:46:55,813 --> 00:46:57,281 So therefore, there's a possibility 924 00:46:57,281 --> 00:46:59,950 here that even though the grasping 925 00:46:59,950 --> 00:47:02,986 at the intrinsic reality of self or whatever it is, 926 00:47:02,986 --> 00:47:04,588 the object, has arisen, 927 00:47:05,355 --> 00:47:08,892 one could prolong the causal sort of process 928 00:47:08,892 --> 00:47:12,162 between that instance of grasping 929 00:47:12,162 --> 00:47:14,631 and the actual arisal of the affliction. 930 00:47:29,446 --> 00:47:32,683 In terms of really a precise analysis of what takes place, 931 00:47:32,683 --> 00:47:34,785 let's say in the first instance of apprehending a flower, 932 00:47:34,785 --> 00:47:36,753 the very first instant you simply apprehend 933 00:47:36,753 --> 00:47:38,522 the flower without reification. 934 00:47:38,522 --> 00:47:40,123 You're simply apprehending the flower itself. 935 00:47:40,123 --> 00:47:41,058 In the next instant... 936 00:47:42,459 --> 00:47:44,061 And that is a valid cognition. 937 00:47:44,061 --> 00:47:45,028 But normally speaking, 938 00:47:45,028 --> 00:47:47,931 in the second instant then there's the reification 939 00:47:47,931 --> 00:47:48,632 of the flower. 940 00:47:48,632 --> 00:47:51,201 As soon as that reification of the flower takes place, 941 00:47:51,201 --> 00:47:52,469 then you're into a false cognition. 942 00:47:52,469 --> 00:47:54,004 And so His Holiness concludes here 943 00:47:54,004 --> 00:47:56,473 it is to be seen whether you can find 944 00:47:56,473 --> 00:48:00,444 the precise neural correlate of the mere apprehension 945 00:48:00,444 --> 00:48:02,813 of the flower, versus the very next instant 946 00:48:02,813 --> 00:48:05,382 of the reification of the flower. 947 00:48:09,219 --> 00:48:11,588 And so it would be very interesting 948 00:48:11,588 --> 00:48:12,990 to see whether by studying the brain, 949 00:48:12,990 --> 00:48:15,025 you will be able to discern the difference 950 00:48:15,025 --> 00:48:18,562 between a valid cognition and an invalid cognition. 951 00:48:42,252 --> 00:48:48,525 In addition, the dialogues focused on the field of neuroscience. 952 00:48:48,525 --> 00:48:51,762 Neurobiology -- oh wonderful. 953 00:48:52,462 --> 00:48:54,831 I think if we properly sort of study 954 00:48:54,831 --> 00:48:57,868 these and get some knowledge, 955 00:48:57,868 --> 00:49:01,738 I think it can serve seven billion human beings. 956 00:49:01,738 --> 00:49:04,775 The Dalai Lama invited me to come meet with him 957 00:49:04,775 --> 00:49:06,944 because he was interested in catalyzing 958 00:49:06,944 --> 00:49:10,113 serious neuroscientific research on the mind 959 00:49:10,113 --> 00:49:13,317 and brains of Tibetan practitioners 960 00:49:13,317 --> 00:49:15,319 that spent years cultivating their minds. 961 00:49:15,319 --> 00:49:18,755 And in fact on that momentous day in 1992, 962 00:49:18,755 --> 00:49:20,390 he was quite stern in a way, 963 00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:22,192 and challenged me and he said, 964 00:49:22,192 --> 00:49:26,063 "You've been using the tools of modern neuroscience 965 00:49:26,063 --> 00:49:30,934 depression and anxiety and stress and fear. 966 00:49:30,934 --> 00:49:32,869 Why can't you use those same tools 967 00:49:32,869 --> 00:49:35,238 to study kindness and compassion?" 968 00:49:35,238 --> 00:49:37,574 And for me it was a wakeup call. 969 00:49:37,574 --> 00:49:39,543 I didn't have a very good answer other than, 970 00:49:39,543 --> 00:49:40,510 that it's hard. 971 00:49:41,712 --> 00:49:43,280 Scientific collaboration 972 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,982 and research began in earnest, 973 00:49:45,415 --> 00:49:48,418 even though neuroscientist Francisco Varela 974 00:49:48,418 --> 00:49:50,020 became seriously ill. 975 00:49:50,554 --> 00:49:52,622 And a conference on neuroscience 976 00:49:52,622 --> 00:49:54,524 was organized in the year of 2000 977 00:49:54,524 --> 00:49:56,760 for the presentation of their results. 978 00:49:59,062 --> 00:50:00,697 I wanted to tell you, 979 00:50:01,598 --> 00:50:05,569 you know, Francisco got very ill in 1997 980 00:50:05,569 --> 00:50:07,871 with the cancer and then after that he had 981 00:50:07,871 --> 00:50:10,374 to make the decision to have the transplantation 982 00:50:10,374 --> 00:50:11,341 of the liver. 983 00:50:11,341 --> 00:50:13,877 He had to decide to die or to live. 984 00:50:14,211 --> 00:50:16,013 And at that time he was thinking 985 00:50:16,013 --> 00:50:18,248 that he did not want to do the transplant. 986 00:50:19,416 --> 00:50:22,419 Then he received a fax from you where you said, 987 00:50:22,419 --> 00:50:24,454 “You must do everything to get healthy 988 00:50:24,454 --> 00:50:27,791 and keep working and practicing and doing science." 989 00:50:27,791 --> 00:50:29,059 And he said, 990 00:50:29,059 --> 00:50:30,360 "this is a message to me 991 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,863 to make the right decision, to live." 992 00:50:32,863 --> 00:50:34,364 And he made the right decision. 993 00:50:34,364 --> 00:50:36,133 Thanks to you. 994 00:50:38,201 --> 00:50:40,270 Strong feeling of reunion. 995 00:50:45,742 --> 00:50:48,478 Thank you. 996 00:51:04,428 --> 00:51:08,799 One of my oldest friends. Great scientist. 997 00:51:17,574 --> 00:51:18,575 Your Holiness, 998 00:51:18,575 --> 00:51:21,545 this afternoon or now, 999 00:51:21,545 --> 00:51:25,982 what I'd like to turn to is the theme 1000 00:51:25,982 --> 00:51:28,819 of the meeting on destructive emotions, 1001 00:51:28,819 --> 00:51:31,655 and talk about some antidotes 1002 00:51:31,655 --> 00:51:35,358 to destructive emotions and how we can think about 1003 00:51:35,358 --> 00:51:40,363 those antidotes in neuroscientific terms. 1004 00:51:40,363 --> 00:51:44,501 And one question which we have pursued, 1005 00:51:44,501 --> 00:51:48,772 whether meditation will have effects 1006 00:51:48,772 --> 00:51:52,242 in a long term way on this area of the brain. 1007 00:51:52,242 --> 00:51:53,877 A more formal experiment 1008 00:51:53,877 --> 00:51:56,580 that we have recently completed 1009 00:51:58,148 --> 00:51:59,716 with Jon Kabat-Zinn, 1010 00:51:59,716 --> 00:52:02,219 who presented to Your Holiness 1011 00:52:02,219 --> 00:52:04,521 at a previous Mind and Life meeting. 1012 00:52:04,521 --> 00:52:06,423 Jon Kabat-Zinn 1013 00:52:06,823 --> 00:52:10,927 has been developing methods to 1014 00:52:10,927 --> 00:52:13,630 use mindfulness meditation 1015 00:52:13,630 --> 00:52:17,200 in a large variety of populations, 1016 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,370 including medical patients, 1017 00:52:20,370 --> 00:52:22,472 employees in the workplace; 1018 00:52:22,472 --> 00:52:25,175 he conducted the training himself. 1019 00:52:25,175 --> 00:52:27,944 We wanted to explore the extent 1020 00:52:27,944 --> 00:52:31,815 to which these factors of 1021 00:52:31,815 --> 00:52:34,217 brain activity can be changed 1022 00:52:34,217 --> 00:52:35,819 in normal lay people. 1023 00:52:35,819 --> 00:52:38,054 The logic in this experiment 1024 00:52:38,054 --> 00:52:40,857 was to see whether antidotes to stress, 1025 00:52:40,857 --> 00:52:41,925 meditation, 1026 00:52:41,925 --> 00:52:43,627 can have a beneficial effect 1027 00:52:43,627 --> 00:52:45,195 on the immune system. 1028 00:52:46,096 --> 00:52:49,699 So, at the end of the study, the participants 1029 00:52:49,699 --> 00:52:51,701 got the vaccine. 1030 00:52:51,701 --> 00:52:55,705 The finding that we are actually the most 1031 00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,477 excited about because it's so unusual 1032 00:53:00,477 --> 00:53:02,746 and it has never been demonstrated before, 1033 00:53:02,746 --> 00:53:05,215 and that is when we vaccinated them 1034 00:53:05,215 --> 00:53:07,417 with the influenza vaccine, 1035 00:53:08,151 --> 00:53:10,287 we actually find that 1036 00:53:10,287 --> 00:53:12,622 the meditation group shows 1037 00:53:12,622 --> 00:53:17,060 a stronger response to the influenza vaccine 1038 00:53:17,060 --> 00:53:19,996 compared to the control group. 1039 00:53:19,996 --> 00:53:23,567 We will be repeating this study with 1040 00:53:23,567 --> 00:53:26,036 measures using MRI 1041 00:53:26,036 --> 00:53:28,939 which allow us to look deep within the brain 1042 00:53:28,972 --> 00:53:30,774 so that we can actually look at the amygdala. 1043 00:53:30,774 --> 00:53:33,243 We are energized with vigor 1044 00:53:33,243 --> 00:53:35,512 and zeal to pursue this 1045 00:53:35,512 --> 00:53:37,614 in the future and we hope to 1046 00:53:37,614 --> 00:53:40,116 continue this kind of collaboration. 1047 00:53:40,317 --> 00:53:43,620 Um, Your Holiness, like my colleagues before, 1048 00:53:43,620 --> 00:53:48,858 just a little, a little, thought before we begin. 1049 00:53:50,660 --> 00:53:52,028 It seems to me truly wondrous 1050 00:53:52,028 --> 00:53:55,065 that I am here again with you once more. 1051 00:53:57,801 --> 00:54:00,637 We have done experiments with audition, 1052 00:54:00,637 --> 00:54:01,605 with memory, 1053 00:54:01,605 --> 00:54:04,274 with conflict of attention between 1054 00:54:04,274 --> 00:54:05,809 visual and auditory. 1055 00:54:05,809 --> 00:54:07,444 The answer is always the same -- 1056 00:54:07,444 --> 00:54:10,213 the transitoriness of mental factors, 1057 00:54:10,213 --> 00:54:11,915 it is like they come and they go. 1058 00:54:11,915 --> 00:54:13,383 And what we have here 1059 00:54:13,383 --> 00:54:15,619 is a correlate in this green stuff. 1060 00:54:15,619 --> 00:54:17,487 That was for me the big discovery, 1061 00:54:17,487 --> 00:54:20,457 that the brain actively undoes itself, 1062 00:54:20,457 --> 00:54:22,225 so it creates like gaps, 1063 00:54:22,225 --> 00:54:24,060 where you know the transition 1064 00:54:24,060 --> 00:54:25,829 from one moment to the next 1065 00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:26,830 is actually marked. 1066 00:54:26,830 --> 00:54:28,131 So, you have recognition 1067 00:54:28,131 --> 00:54:30,800 and then action, but they are punctuated. 1068 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,235 It's like you know saying, 1069 00:54:32,235 --> 00:54:35,772 perception, comma, action. 1070 00:54:35,772 --> 00:54:38,441 You don't just put them in a flow, 1071 00:54:38,441 --> 00:54:39,276 in a continuum. 1072 00:54:39,276 --> 00:54:41,344 This is again what we were talking 1073 00:54:41,344 --> 00:54:42,345 about the other day -- 1074 00:54:42,345 --> 00:54:43,580 that time lasts a 1075 00:54:43,580 --> 00:54:45,115 little bit, and in fact it lasts, 1076 00:54:45,115 --> 00:54:47,250 here you can see the first moment 1077 00:54:47,250 --> 00:54:48,551 of time of the recognition 1078 00:54:48,551 --> 00:54:50,086 is about a third of a second, 1079 00:54:50,086 --> 00:54:53,423 then another same, similar moment 1080 00:54:53,423 --> 00:54:56,626 when you do an action, 1081 00:54:56,626 --> 00:54:58,261 which is pushing the button. 1082 00:54:58,261 --> 00:55:00,030 This is systematic. 1083 00:55:00,030 --> 00:55:02,399 We've seen this in all kinds of different conditions. 1084 00:55:12,275 --> 00:55:14,511 His Holiness is interested to see whether you agree 1085 00:55:14,511 --> 00:55:16,112 that this corroborates a point of Buddhist psychology, 1086 00:55:19,849 --> 00:55:21,217 and that is in the first moment 1087 00:55:21,217 --> 00:55:22,552 it is purely visual perception 1088 00:55:22,552 --> 00:55:23,787 which is not conceptual. 1089 00:55:23,787 --> 00:55:25,155 And the second moment, 1090 00:55:25,155 --> 00:55:27,490 whatever that moment whatever the duration 1091 00:55:27,490 --> 00:55:28,825 of that moment happens to be, 1092 00:55:28,825 --> 00:55:30,960 then the conceptual mind 1093 00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:32,329 apprehends, this is this. 1094 00:55:32,729 --> 00:55:33,697 Absolutely. 1095 00:55:33,697 --> 00:55:38,201 You cannot compress a moment beyond typically 1096 00:55:38,201 --> 00:55:40,704 normal conditions 150 milliseconds. 1097 00:55:40,704 --> 00:55:42,839 Even if It's something almost immediate, 1098 00:55:42,839 --> 00:55:45,108 it's about 150 milliseconds. 1099 00:55:45,108 --> 00:55:47,811 This moment of arising is another whumph. 1100 00:55:48,945 --> 00:55:51,648 So the brain works by these whumps. 1101 00:55:51,648 --> 00:55:52,849 And whatever it is, 1102 00:55:52,849 --> 00:55:55,185 whether it is visual perception of the field, 1103 00:55:55,185 --> 00:55:57,554 whether it is the close your eyes 1104 00:55:57,554 --> 00:55:58,755 and you have a mental image, 1105 00:55:58,755 --> 00:55:59,823 it is the same thing. 1106 00:55:59,823 --> 00:56:02,058 Now to really conclude, Your Holiness, 1107 00:56:02,058 --> 00:56:04,527 my point is that this was done with somebody 1108 00:56:04,527 --> 00:56:07,530 who is not really highly trained, 1109 00:56:07,530 --> 00:56:09,366 but we, know what we want to do 1110 00:56:09,366 --> 00:56:11,401 is to take highly trained people 1111 00:56:11,401 --> 00:56:13,370 like meditators who can actually 1112 00:56:13,370 --> 00:56:15,739 go into much more finer detail, 1113 00:56:15,739 --> 00:56:17,774 what was the moment of experience? 1114 00:56:17,774 --> 00:56:18,641 And for example, 1115 00:56:18,641 --> 00:56:20,276 we want to work with the monasteries 1116 00:56:20,276 --> 00:56:22,912 in Dordogne in the south of France, 1117 00:56:22,912 --> 00:56:23,880 and in May, for example, 1118 00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,649 we hope to have Matthieu come to the lab 1119 00:56:26,649 --> 00:56:28,818 and do these kinds of experiments. 1120 00:56:28,818 --> 00:56:30,420 So, if we can find differences 1121 00:56:30,420 --> 00:56:32,155 even with ordinary people, 1122 00:56:32,155 --> 00:56:34,524 then with more expert people we should 1123 00:56:34,524 --> 00:56:37,260 be able to really go into much finer detail. 1124 00:56:37,260 --> 00:56:39,763 So with that thought I wanted to conclude, 1125 00:56:39,763 --> 00:56:41,631 because this is where, to me, 1126 00:56:41,631 --> 00:56:44,100 there's a true possibility of collaboration, 1127 00:56:44,100 --> 00:56:46,302 not just in principle 1128 00:56:46,302 --> 00:56:47,704 but in a very concrete sense. 1129 00:56:47,704 --> 00:56:49,773 Thank you very much, Your Holiness. 1130 00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:56,646 Francisco Varela, Richard Davidson and others 1131 00:56:56,646 --> 00:57:00,750 invited scientifically trained Matthieu Ricard, 1132 00:57:00,750 --> 00:57:02,986 who had received a PhD in Molecular Genetics 1133 00:57:02,986 --> 00:57:04,187 before he became a monk, 1134 00:57:04,187 --> 00:57:06,489 to help them craft the experimental design. 1135 00:57:06,489 --> 00:57:12,195 All this scientific sort of research work. 1136 00:57:12,195 --> 00:57:13,830 Oh wonderful. 1137 00:57:13,830 --> 00:57:15,698 Now you bring into the laboratory 1138 00:57:15,698 --> 00:57:16,966 somebody like Matthieu, 1139 00:57:16,966 --> 00:57:19,736 complete stable mind, 1140 00:57:19,736 --> 00:57:22,472 no distractions, no thoughts. 1141 00:57:22,472 --> 00:57:25,842 So when the stimulus comes, he's always ready. 1142 00:57:25,842 --> 00:57:28,711 And the results are completely different. 1143 00:57:28,711 --> 00:57:31,614 Meditators who are experienced, 1144 00:57:31,614 --> 00:57:34,017 are masters of precisely 1145 00:57:34,017 --> 00:57:37,187 being able to become aware of what happens in their minds. 1146 00:57:37,187 --> 00:57:41,357 And these first person methods are a radical 1147 00:57:41,357 --> 00:57:43,026 departure from classical science. 1148 00:57:43,026 --> 00:57:46,262 One is disembodied, impersonal. 1149 00:57:46,262 --> 00:57:49,632 The other one is fully embodied, totally situated. 1150 00:57:49,632 --> 00:57:51,901 So here we have an occasion 1151 00:57:51,901 --> 00:57:55,572 to really bring very much into the hard core 1152 00:57:55,572 --> 00:57:58,942 of research in science that idea. Why? 1153 00:57:58,942 --> 00:58:01,311 Because it is interesting for science, the question 1154 00:58:01,311 --> 00:58:03,446 of how to study consciousness. 1155 00:58:03,446 --> 00:58:05,782 Both of them can give us knowledge. 1156 00:58:05,782 --> 00:58:06,850 In both of them, 1157 00:58:06,850 --> 00:58:09,285 you can have good science. 1158 00:58:10,220 --> 00:58:14,023 They found certain sort of knowledge, 1159 00:58:14,023 --> 00:58:15,191 oh wonderful, 1160 00:58:15,191 --> 00:58:18,695 is not just speculation, 1161 00:58:18,695 --> 00:58:21,564 but they actually found through, 1162 00:58:21,564 --> 00:58:23,766 or proved through, experiment. 1163 00:58:23,766 --> 00:58:26,669 This is an image of her brain, 1164 00:58:26,669 --> 00:58:30,840 if we split the brain in half, like that. 1165 00:58:32,475 --> 00:58:36,412 Now we are going to do a demonstration for you, 1166 00:58:36,412 --> 00:58:37,580 Your Holiness. 1167 00:58:39,949 --> 00:58:43,786 So you can, you can see actually that the areas 1168 00:58:43,786 --> 00:58:47,357 are much more extensive during mental activities. 1169 00:58:47,357 --> 00:58:48,324 Yes, yes, that’s right. 1170 00:58:53,596 --> 00:58:53,630 And that has been studied with these techniques, 1171 00:58:53,630 --> 00:58:59,135 Well, actually, in dreaming the brain is very active. 1172 00:58:59,135 --> 00:59:02,539 And that has been studied with these techniques, 1173 00:59:02,539 --> 00:59:06,109 and there is activation in all of the sensory areas. 1174 00:59:06,109 --> 00:59:08,278 So actually, that's very true. 1175 00:59:16,085 --> 00:59:19,722 With the MRI we get spatial resolution, 1176 00:59:19,722 --> 00:59:21,658 so very fine spatial resolution. 1177 00:59:21,658 --> 00:59:25,261 With the EEG we get time resolution, 1178 00:59:25,261 --> 00:59:26,262 things that are very fast. 1179 00:59:26,262 --> 00:59:28,197 With this we're after chemical resolution 1180 00:59:28,197 --> 00:59:30,400 and chemical selectivity. 1181 00:59:30,833 --> 00:59:34,037 That's the real advantage of using this particular 1182 00:59:34,037 --> 00:59:35,438 imaging versus something else. 1183 00:59:35,438 --> 00:59:37,106 We can be very selective 1184 00:59:37,106 --> 00:59:38,575 about the chemistry that we look at. 1185 00:59:40,443 --> 00:59:43,379 Then the instrument itself, also wonderful, 1186 00:59:44,247 --> 00:59:45,615 very sophisticated, 1187 00:59:46,883 --> 00:59:48,184 oh wonderful. 1188 00:59:48,484 --> 00:59:49,819 Must be very expensive. 1189 00:59:53,890 --> 00:59:55,758 Unexpectedly, 1190 00:59:55,758 --> 00:59:59,062 just months before they were to meet again in person, 1191 00:59:59,062 --> 01:00:03,199 Francisco Varela's health failed him for the final time. 1192 01:00:03,199 --> 01:00:06,002 He lost his long struggle with liver cancer. 1193 01:00:07,971 --> 01:00:10,206 He became terminally ill. 1194 01:00:11,674 --> 01:00:13,710 Our last conversation, 1195 01:00:13,710 --> 01:00:15,845 not face to face, 1196 01:00:15,845 --> 01:00:18,715 but through modern technology, 1197 01:00:18,715 --> 01:00:20,216 through video, 1198 01:00:20,216 --> 01:00:25,722 from Madison to Paris, isn’t it. 1199 01:00:27,090 --> 01:00:28,925 That’s very moving. 1200 01:00:28,925 --> 01:00:30,760 Good morning 1201 01:00:31,561 --> 01:00:32,629 my dear friend. 1202 01:00:35,031 --> 01:00:37,600 And in some sense I also consider 1203 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,103 you as a spiritual brother. 1204 01:00:40,103 --> 01:00:43,006 I was with Francisco when the Dalai Lama called. 1205 01:00:43,006 --> 01:00:44,907 He could no longer move. 1206 01:00:44,907 --> 01:00:46,809 He could no longer talk. 1207 01:00:46,809 --> 01:00:49,212 But he was watching so strongly the screen 1208 01:00:49,212 --> 01:00:51,280 with the Dalai Lama speaking to him, 1209 01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,950 that I thought he was going to dive into the screen, 1210 01:00:53,950 --> 01:00:56,586 as if it were a swimming pool. 1211 01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,355 He was in the screen with him. 1212 01:01:00,156 --> 01:01:02,725 And it was a very, very moving moment 1213 01:01:02,725 --> 01:01:04,560 for everyone who was there. 1214 01:01:05,461 --> 01:01:09,232 So I wanted to express my, 1215 01:01:09,966 --> 01:01:14,203 uh, deep feeling to you, 1216 01:01:15,271 --> 01:01:16,272 as a human brother. 1217 01:01:17,774 --> 01:01:19,475 And your contribution 1218 01:01:21,944 --> 01:01:23,479 in science -- 1219 01:01:23,813 --> 01:01:25,081 I think you made, 1220 01:01:25,081 --> 01:01:28,551 especially in neurology 1221 01:01:28,551 --> 01:01:32,088 you made great sort of contribution. 1222 01:01:32,088 --> 01:01:35,058 And then also in our work, 1223 01:01:35,058 --> 01:01:36,859 some kind of dialogue 1224 01:01:36,859 --> 01:01:39,262 between science 1225 01:01:39,262 --> 01:01:41,898 and Buddhist science of mind, 1226 01:01:43,366 --> 01:01:45,034 and also some other field, 1227 01:01:45,835 --> 01:01:47,770 I think you made great contribution. 1228 01:01:49,205 --> 01:01:51,207 So we never forget that. 1229 01:01:51,908 --> 01:01:53,176 Until my death, 1230 01:01:53,176 --> 01:01:57,013 I will remember you. 1231 01:01:57,914 --> 01:02:00,616 One year later Francisco's wife and son met 1232 01:02:00,616 --> 01:02:03,119 with the Dalai Lama, in remembrance. 1233 01:02:06,255 --> 01:02:07,824 How old are you? 1234 01:02:07,824 --> 01:02:08,424 Ten. 1235 01:02:11,094 --> 01:02:13,629 So, before you come to this world, 1236 01:02:13,629 --> 01:02:16,699 I already know your father. 1237 01:02:20,236 --> 01:02:21,938 So great, really great. 1238 01:02:25,708 --> 01:02:27,110 The Dalai Lama told me 1239 01:02:27,110 --> 01:02:29,879 that he always has this photo of Francisco with him, 1240 01:02:29,879 --> 01:02:31,948 and that he takes it with him, 1241 01:02:31,948 --> 01:02:32,949 whenever he travels, 1242 01:02:32,949 --> 01:02:33,916 wherever he goes, 1243 01:02:33,916 --> 01:02:36,018 to this day still. 1244 01:02:37,687 --> 01:02:40,022 And then, the Dalai Lama reaffirmed 1245 01:02:40,022 --> 01:02:42,525 his personal commitment to driving forward 1246 01:02:42,525 --> 01:02:45,061 the collaboration between Buddhist science 1247 01:02:45,061 --> 01:02:46,596 and western science, 1248 01:02:46,596 --> 01:02:47,964 in the years ahead. 1249 01:02:55,505 --> 01:02:56,806 In 2003, 1250 01:02:56,806 --> 01:02:57,540 the Dalai Lama opened 1251 01:02:57,540 --> 01:02:59,008 up his conversations 1252 01:02:59,008 --> 01:03:00,777 with scientists to the public, 1253 01:03:00,777 --> 01:03:02,411 with a groundbreaking conference 1254 01:03:02,411 --> 01:03:04,080 at one of the most prestigious 1255 01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:06,783 scientific research universities in the world -- 1256 01:03:06,783 --> 01:03:08,651 MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology). 1257 01:03:08,651 --> 01:03:10,186 In 1998, 1258 01:03:10,186 --> 01:03:12,488 we added collaborative research 1259 01:03:12,488 --> 01:03:13,456 to our mission. 1260 01:03:14,824 --> 01:03:16,859 And by that what we had in mind 1261 01:03:16,859 --> 01:03:18,561 was a true collaboration 1262 01:03:18,561 --> 01:03:20,062 between Buddhism and science, 1263 01:03:20,062 --> 01:03:22,098 where scientists and Buddhists 1264 01:03:22,098 --> 01:03:24,233 would stand shoulder to shoulder 1265 01:03:24,233 --> 01:03:26,769 and design the scientific protocols, 1266 01:03:26,769 --> 01:03:29,071 recruit the subjects, 1267 01:03:29,071 --> 01:03:30,606 execute the research, 1268 01:03:30,606 --> 01:03:32,508 analyze the results together, 1269 01:03:32,508 --> 01:03:34,310 and publish together. 1270 01:03:36,245 --> 01:03:37,446 All of our public meetings 1271 01:03:37,446 --> 01:03:38,481 have been co-sponsored 1272 01:03:38,481 --> 01:03:41,217 by major research universities, 1273 01:03:41,217 --> 01:03:42,685 starting with MIT 1274 01:03:42,685 --> 01:03:44,420 and then with Georgetown 1275 01:03:44,420 --> 01:03:46,088 and Johns Hopkins Medical Institute, 1276 01:03:46,088 --> 01:03:47,990 Emory, the Mayo Clinic, 1277 01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:49,225 the University of Zurich, 1278 01:03:49,225 --> 01:03:51,561 that really has gotten credibility 1279 01:03:51,561 --> 01:03:52,962 and acceptance. 1280 01:03:53,563 --> 01:03:55,698 I’m going to explain 1281 01:03:55,698 --> 01:03:58,434 a few things 1282 01:03:58,434 --> 01:04:02,238 about how mental imagery is being used 1283 01:04:02,238 --> 01:04:04,106 as part of a, 1284 01:04:04,106 --> 01:04:06,409 an effort of personal transformation. 1285 01:04:08,144 --> 01:04:10,580 I’ll be talking about introspection 1286 01:04:10,580 --> 01:04:12,982 and mechanism in mental imagery, 1287 01:04:12,982 --> 01:04:15,218 but let me start off by pointing out that 1288 01:04:15,218 --> 01:04:17,486 I have to be extremely humble. 1289 01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:19,322 Um, that was 1290 01:04:19,322 --> 01:04:20,423 a fantastic talk we just heard, 1291 01:04:20,423 --> 01:04:21,490 and it reminded me of 1292 01:04:21,490 --> 01:04:22,859 how little we know 1293 01:04:22,859 --> 01:04:24,493 in the scientific community, 1294 01:04:24,493 --> 01:04:25,661 just how narrow 1295 01:04:25,661 --> 01:04:26,996 and focused we've been. 1296 01:04:26,996 --> 01:04:29,365 Hopefully we're starting to build a brick 1297 01:04:29,365 --> 01:04:31,234 that can contribute to the wall 1298 01:04:31,234 --> 01:04:33,369 but we really must be modest. 1299 01:04:33,369 --> 01:04:35,071 So with that preface. 1300 01:04:36,072 --> 01:04:36,739 Let me talk about 1301 01:04:36,739 --> 01:04:37,707 what we've discovered -- 1302 01:04:49,352 --> 01:04:50,720 The Dalai Lama spoke 1303 01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,689 before an overflow crowd of 14,000 1304 01:04:53,689 --> 01:04:55,024 at the annual meeting 1305 01:04:55,024 --> 01:04:57,260 of the Society for Neuroscience, 1306 01:04:57,260 --> 01:04:58,761 despite a petition started by 1307 01:04:58,761 --> 01:05:00,429 some Chinese neuroscientists 1308 01:05:00,429 --> 01:05:02,365 to ban him from speaking. 1309 01:05:02,365 --> 01:05:06,168 And in 2014, the Dalai Lama was invited to speak 1310 01:05:06,168 --> 01:05:09,672 at one of the world's foremost medical research centers, 1311 01:05:09,672 --> 01:05:11,874 the National Institute of Health, 1312 01:05:11,874 --> 01:05:14,143 where he was greeted with a standing ovation. 1313 01:05:14,143 --> 01:05:16,646 I don't think I can recall 1314 01:05:16,646 --> 01:05:19,849 ever seeing this auditorium this full, 1315 01:05:19,849 --> 01:05:22,718 and I've been at NIH for twenty years. 1316 01:05:22,718 --> 01:05:26,522 So that says something about the person 1317 01:05:26,522 --> 01:05:28,357 who is sitting to my left, 1318 01:05:28,357 --> 01:05:31,694 who I think all of you want to hear from, 1319 01:05:31,694 --> 01:05:34,497 His Holiness the Dalai Lama. 1320 01:05:34,497 --> 01:05:38,067 His Holiness saw a demonstration just a few minutes ago, 1321 01:05:38,067 --> 01:05:40,636 of a thirteen year old girl with cerebral palsy 1322 01:05:40,636 --> 01:05:43,072 who is in our rehabilitation lab, 1323 01:05:43,072 --> 01:05:44,907 with some very high tech 1324 01:05:44,907 --> 01:05:47,743 analyses of how her motor problems 1325 01:05:47,743 --> 01:05:49,845 connect with what's going on in the brain, 1326 01:05:49,845 --> 01:05:52,581 and how training on the elliptical 1327 01:05:52,581 --> 01:05:54,083 and some other things they're doing 1328 01:05:54,083 --> 01:05:57,219 is improving her leg’s functioning, 1329 01:05:57,219 --> 01:05:59,188 and maybe reprogramming 1330 01:05:59,188 --> 01:06:01,223 the motor part of her brain. 1331 01:06:01,223 --> 01:06:03,759 The controller is here, 1332 01:06:03,759 --> 01:06:06,662 so controller damaged, 1333 01:06:06,662 --> 01:06:09,532 and then this movement difficult. 1334 01:06:09,532 --> 01:06:11,634 So now I learned, 1335 01:06:11,634 --> 01:06:15,871 training here, can change the controller. 1336 01:06:15,871 --> 01:06:19,342 Ultimately, scientific research should 1337 01:06:19,342 --> 01:06:23,546 bring some benefit to humanity. 1338 01:06:27,350 --> 01:06:31,020 The company or concerned people 1339 01:06:31,020 --> 01:06:32,989 who made this, 1340 01:06:32,989 --> 01:06:35,591 I really very much appreciate. 1341 01:06:35,591 --> 01:06:38,227 And you, now you see, 1342 01:06:38,227 --> 01:06:42,598 can tell them how useful this is. 1343 01:06:42,598 --> 01:06:45,267 And then, 1344 01:06:45,267 --> 01:06:47,937 I think in Europe, 1345 01:06:47,937 --> 01:06:51,240 I think comparatively better, better facilities. 1346 01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:53,809 But look at Africa. 1347 01:06:53,809 --> 01:06:54,777 Yeah. 1348 01:06:54,777 --> 01:06:56,278 Many poor people. 1349 01:06:58,748 --> 01:07:02,752 And then less developed countries, 1350 01:07:02,752 --> 01:07:07,390 the suffering is immense. 1351 01:07:07,757 --> 01:07:11,761 During the 21st century scientists, 1352 01:07:11,761 --> 01:07:13,329 technologists really 1353 01:07:13,329 --> 01:07:17,833 develop wonderful sorts of inventions. 1354 01:07:17,833 --> 01:07:18,868 So you can see, you can touch. 1355 01:07:20,669 --> 01:07:21,570 Cold hand. 1356 01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:25,608 That’s this device here. 1357 01:07:27,209 --> 01:07:28,944 You see how the Vagus nerve here. 1358 01:07:28,944 --> 01:07:31,614 Yes. And it works? 1359 01:07:31,614 --> 01:07:35,651 Great sort of result, out of scientific research, 1360 01:07:35,651 --> 01:07:36,652 and technology also. 1361 01:07:36,652 --> 01:07:37,620 Wonderful. 1362 01:07:40,423 --> 01:07:41,424 Wonderful. 1363 01:07:45,261 --> 01:07:46,362 The Dalai Lama collected 1364 01:07:46,362 --> 01:07:47,897 a prestigious award today 1365 01:07:47,897 --> 01:07:50,399 for his unique contribution in engaging 1366 01:07:50,399 --> 01:07:52,535 with multiple dimensions of science. 1367 01:07:52,535 --> 01:07:54,437 The John Templeton Foundation 1368 01:07:54,437 --> 01:07:56,205 stated that for decades 1369 01:07:56,205 --> 01:07:57,306 the Dalai Lama has focused 1370 01:07:57,306 --> 01:07:58,507 on the connections 1371 01:07:58,507 --> 01:08:00,376 between the investigative traditions of science 1372 01:08:00,376 --> 01:08:01,977 and Buddhism, specifically 1373 01:08:01,977 --> 01:08:03,679 by encouraging scientific reviews 1374 01:08:03,679 --> 01:08:05,114 of the power of compassion 1375 01:08:05,114 --> 01:08:06,882 and its potential to address the 1376 01:08:06,882 --> 01:08:08,317 world's fundamental problems. 1377 01:08:08,317 --> 01:08:09,685 The Templeton award, 1378 01:08:09,685 --> 01:08:10,786 which was established 1379 01:08:10,786 --> 01:08:11,987 over forty years ago, 1380 01:08:11,987 --> 01:08:13,689 claims to be the world's largest 1381 01:08:13,689 --> 01:08:15,591 yearly monetary award. 1382 01:08:15,591 --> 01:08:16,926 The Dalai Lama 1383 01:08:16,926 --> 01:08:18,360 says that he intends to donate it 1384 01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:20,362 to help impoverished children in India, 1385 01:08:20,362 --> 01:08:21,931 and also to fund further 1386 01:08:21,931 --> 01:08:24,700 scientific research and investigation. 1387 01:08:27,103 --> 01:08:30,206 The Dalai Lama continued to collaborate with many scientists, 1388 01:08:30,206 --> 01:08:32,208 including Richard Davidson. 1389 01:08:32,208 --> 01:08:33,676 If it weren’t for these dialogues, 1390 01:08:33,676 --> 01:08:36,278 I think I wouldn't have found some key insights. 1391 01:08:36,278 --> 01:08:39,215 It's been deeply important and meaningful. 1392 01:08:39,215 --> 01:08:43,018 And I think that it will transform science. 1393 01:08:43,018 --> 01:08:46,122 Neuroplasticity simply means that the brain changes 1394 01:08:46,122 --> 01:08:50,292 in response to experience and in response to training. 1395 01:08:50,292 --> 01:08:52,895 Most of the time the brain is changing unwittingly. 1396 01:08:52,895 --> 01:08:54,497 Recent evidence suggests that 1397 01:08:54,497 --> 01:08:56,265 the average American adult spends 1398 01:08:56,265 --> 01:08:57,933 Forty-seven percent of her 1399 01:08:57,933 --> 01:08:59,602 or his waking life, 1400 01:08:59,602 --> 01:09:02,071 not paying attention to what they're doing. 1401 01:09:02,071 --> 01:09:03,005 Now what you see, 1402 01:09:03,005 --> 01:09:04,106 here, is the expression 1403 01:09:04,106 --> 01:09:06,509 of high amplitude gamma oscillations. 1404 01:09:06,509 --> 01:09:08,177 These gamma oscillations 1405 01:09:08,177 --> 01:09:10,012 when they are seen in normal human 1406 01:09:10,012 --> 01:09:12,448 beings are typically very brief, 1407 01:09:12,448 --> 01:09:14,583 less than one second in duration. 1408 01:09:14,583 --> 01:09:18,387 But we observe them continuously at high amplitude 1409 01:09:18,387 --> 01:09:21,557 in these long term meditation practitioners. 1410 01:09:21,557 --> 01:09:23,926 These are oscillations which are associated 1411 01:09:23,926 --> 01:09:25,794 with states of focused attention, 1412 01:09:25,794 --> 01:09:28,097 as well as periods of insight when different elements 1413 01:09:28,097 --> 01:09:29,932 of a percept 1414 01:09:29,932 --> 01:09:31,467 or an idea come together 1415 01:09:31,467 --> 01:09:33,802 in a kind of momentary insight. 1416 01:09:34,003 --> 01:09:36,205 Then you see a burst of gamma. 1417 01:09:36,205 --> 01:09:37,940 Now, this is very interesting -- 1418 01:09:37,940 --> 01:09:40,609 we have for the very first time a technology 1419 01:09:40,609 --> 01:09:43,712 which allows us to actually look at epigenetic changes 1420 01:09:43,712 --> 01:09:45,948 in human brain tissue. 1421 01:09:45,948 --> 01:09:47,550 We can take a blood cell, 1422 01:09:47,550 --> 01:09:49,251 and we can convert that cell 1423 01:09:49,251 --> 01:09:51,487 into a pluripotent stem cell. 1424 01:09:51,487 --> 01:09:53,022 We can then turn it into 1425 01:09:53,022 --> 01:09:54,823 any other kind of cell in the body. 1426 01:09:54,823 --> 01:09:57,092 And one of the things that we can do, in a dish, 1427 01:09:57,092 --> 01:09:59,461 is that we can turn it into any kind 1428 01:09:59,461 --> 01:10:03,132 of neuron that we find in the human brain, 1429 01:10:03,132 --> 01:10:05,634 and then we can look at the gene expression 1430 01:10:05,634 --> 01:10:07,436 in that neuronal stage. 1431 01:10:07,436 --> 01:10:11,974 And so this is going to usher in a whole new era of investigation 1432 01:10:11,974 --> 01:10:14,810 that enables us to look with much greater specificity, 1433 01:10:14,810 --> 01:10:17,346 at the brain, than ever before. 1434 01:10:17,346 --> 01:10:20,583 It is also important to know that there are three major 1435 01:10:20,583 --> 01:10:23,919 periods of increased plasticity in the brain -- 1436 01:10:23,919 --> 01:10:26,021 one is right around birth; 1437 01:10:26,021 --> 01:10:27,690 the second is around the onset of schooling 1438 01:10:27,690 --> 01:10:30,593 between the ages of five and seven years; 1439 01:10:30,593 --> 01:10:33,462 and the third is around adolescence. 1440 01:10:33,462 --> 01:10:36,899 These are periods where the brain is radically reorganized, 1441 01:10:36,899 --> 01:10:40,436 and these are all opportunities for intervention. 1442 01:11:03,692 --> 01:11:05,794 The Dalai Lama also worked closely 1443 01:11:05,794 --> 01:11:09,265 for many years with other scientists, like Paul Ekman. 1444 01:11:09,265 --> 01:11:10,666 In 2016, 1445 01:11:10,666 --> 01:11:12,301 they launched their comprehensive 1446 01:11:12,301 --> 01:11:14,203 map of human emotions. 1447 01:11:14,203 --> 01:11:17,339 If I heard you correctly, Your Holiness, 1448 01:11:17,339 --> 01:11:19,141 you are talking about a map of emotions. 1449 01:11:19,141 --> 01:11:20,042 Yes. 1450 01:11:20,042 --> 01:11:21,043 We human beings, 1451 01:11:21,043 --> 01:11:23,812 this marvelous intelligence, 1452 01:11:23,812 --> 01:11:27,916 either you see becomes a source of happiness, 1453 01:11:27,916 --> 01:11:29,852 or a source of worry. 1454 01:11:30,653 --> 01:11:34,390 You have all the facilities, but at the same time 1455 01:11:35,057 --> 01:11:38,927 can be very, very unhappy person. 1456 01:11:38,927 --> 01:11:41,730 We met every week for almost two years, 1457 01:11:41,730 --> 01:11:43,332 trying to figure out 1458 01:11:43,332 --> 01:11:45,701 how can we use graphics 1459 01:11:45,701 --> 01:11:48,804 to give us insight into our emotions? 1460 01:11:48,804 --> 01:11:50,272 How can we map them? 1461 01:11:50,639 --> 01:11:53,542 The process of creating the map, 1462 01:11:53,909 --> 01:11:56,011 of answering the questions that he kept raising 1463 01:11:56,011 --> 01:11:58,847 about how to do it, how it should be shown, 1464 01:11:58,847 --> 01:12:01,984 made me think about emotions in a way I hadn't 1465 01:12:01,984 --> 01:12:03,419 thought of up until then, 1466 01:12:03,419 --> 01:12:05,721 after fifty years of studying emotion. 1467 01:12:06,488 --> 01:12:09,358 Because of emotions we may starve ourself to death, 1468 01:12:09,858 --> 01:12:13,128 because of emotions we may take our own life, 1469 01:12:13,562 --> 01:12:16,131 but the fundamental drives are puny compared 1470 01:12:16,131 --> 01:12:20,169 to the power of emotions which override them -- 1471 01:12:20,169 --> 01:12:23,505 they are what drives life. 1472 01:12:23,505 --> 01:12:25,541 We must, sort of, utilize 1473 01:12:25,541 --> 01:12:29,311 a deeper level of our ability 1474 01:12:29,311 --> 01:12:30,979 to think, 1475 01:12:30,979 --> 01:12:34,650 to tackle our emotions. 1476 01:12:40,422 --> 01:12:43,425 The scientific dialogues continued, and they covered 1477 01:12:43,425 --> 01:12:46,895 molecular biology and genetics. 1478 01:12:46,895 --> 01:12:49,264 What I'm going to talk about essentially 1479 01:12:49,264 --> 01:12:51,266 is how parents 1480 01:12:51,266 --> 01:12:53,469 alter the activity of genes 1481 01:12:53,469 --> 01:12:56,138 in the brain and how that influences the way 1482 01:12:56,138 --> 01:12:58,207 their children respond to stress, 1483 01:12:58,207 --> 01:13:00,809 and in particular what I'd like to talk about, 1484 01:13:00,809 --> 01:13:02,778 and that component that may be somewhat new, 1485 01:13:02,778 --> 01:13:07,449 is how it is that the influence of parents can persist 1486 01:13:07,449 --> 01:13:09,585 potentially over the entire lifespan. 1487 01:13:10,219 --> 01:13:11,754 The idea is, 1488 01:13:11,754 --> 01:13:13,255 that as I mentioned, parental care alters 1489 01:13:13,255 --> 01:13:15,791 the activity of genes in the brain, 1490 01:13:15,791 --> 01:13:17,359 and that these effects are very specific. 1491 01:13:17,593 --> 01:13:19,828 Then the second component is this -- 1492 01:13:19,828 --> 01:13:24,466 these parental effects actually involve a form of plasticity. 1493 01:13:25,267 --> 01:13:27,469 But this plasticity is different. 1494 01:13:27,836 --> 01:13:31,240 It doesn't involve connections between neurons. 1495 01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:33,475 The modifications actually occur 1496 01:13:33,475 --> 01:13:35,477 at the level of the gene itself. 1497 01:13:35,911 --> 01:13:39,248 And that there is an organization of the chemical 1498 01:13:39,248 --> 01:13:42,184 environment in which the gene operates, 1499 01:13:42,184 --> 01:13:44,052 and that is the effect 1500 01:13:44,052 --> 01:13:46,288 that then sustains itself over the lifespan. 1501 01:13:46,522 --> 01:13:48,891 They began to collaborate. 1502 01:13:48,891 --> 01:13:50,292 And what was so 1503 01:13:50,292 --> 01:13:52,561 impressive I think was the overlay between 1504 01:13:52,561 --> 01:13:53,896 Buddhist philosophy 1505 01:13:53,896 --> 01:13:56,532 and cognitive behavioral therapy, 1506 01:13:56,532 --> 01:13:58,100 and what I wanted to do was to try to bring 1507 01:13:58,100 --> 01:13:59,868 that into a particular context. 1508 01:13:59,868 --> 01:14:02,471 What we're understanding is that many forms of illness 1509 01:14:02,471 --> 01:14:06,508 and disease is shaped first by events that occur 1510 01:14:06,508 --> 01:14:07,509 early in life. 1511 01:14:08,544 --> 01:14:10,712 And second, it is shaped by 1512 01:14:10,712 --> 01:14:12,815 various forms of family experience. 1513 01:14:12,815 --> 01:14:16,351 And I'd like yourself and members of the audience 1514 01:14:16,852 --> 01:14:19,888 to simply imagine life as a child, 1515 01:14:19,888 --> 01:14:23,025 growing up in a family with 1516 01:14:23,025 --> 01:14:25,127 drug abuse, unemployment, 1517 01:14:25,127 --> 01:14:27,996 financial stress, 1518 01:14:27,996 --> 01:14:30,132 and physical and sexual abuse. 1519 01:14:30,699 --> 01:14:33,335 And emotionally they then become people 1520 01:14:33,335 --> 01:14:36,205 who are very sensitive to threat. 1521 01:14:36,438 --> 01:14:39,741 For these children their anger is not wrong. 1522 01:14:39,741 --> 01:14:42,211 It is very adaptive. 1523 01:14:42,211 --> 01:14:43,278 We've created an environment 1524 01:14:43,278 --> 01:14:45,614 in which the child must normally be angry. 1525 01:14:46,014 --> 01:14:48,317 And one of the problems that we face in medicine, 1526 01:14:48,317 --> 01:14:50,118 in particular in psychiatry, 1527 01:14:50,419 --> 01:14:53,155 is how do we reach out to those children. 1528 01:14:53,155 --> 01:14:56,258 How do we deal with that form of anger? 1529 01:15:02,064 --> 01:15:04,867 Of course, you know, related to this is the question 1530 01:15:04,867 --> 01:15:07,970 which His Holiness was saying that he has 1531 01:15:07,970 --> 01:15:10,072 been often asking and interested, 1532 01:15:10,072 --> 01:15:13,876 that as a result of changes at the brain level, 1533 01:15:13,876 --> 01:15:15,711 there is a manifestation of changes 1534 01:15:15,711 --> 01:15:17,412 at the psychological and emotional level. 1535 01:15:17,412 --> 01:15:19,615 Yes, that's uncontentious. 1536 01:15:19,615 --> 01:15:22,084 But can one also imagine 1537 01:15:22,084 --> 01:15:23,318 the reversal process, 1538 01:15:23,318 --> 01:15:25,420 where as a result of a thought process, 1539 01:15:25,420 --> 01:15:27,389 change in the thought process, 1540 01:15:27,389 --> 01:15:32,060 one could see a change on the brain level, as well. 1541 01:15:32,060 --> 01:15:35,697 The optimism here is that these can occur, 1542 01:15:35,697 --> 01:15:39,167 and that the dialogue involved in 1543 01:15:39,167 --> 01:15:40,168 cognitive behavioural therapy 1544 01:15:40,168 --> 01:15:42,271 or in Buddhist philosophy 1545 01:15:42,271 --> 01:15:44,940 can, there is the prospect, 1546 01:15:44,940 --> 01:15:47,376 of changing at the level of the gene itself. 1547 01:15:47,376 --> 01:15:49,511 There is the prospect. 1548 01:15:52,681 --> 01:15:54,750 I think a lot of our problems, 1549 01:15:54,750 --> 01:15:59,354 not necessarily created by technology itself, 1550 01:15:59,354 --> 01:16:02,190 but by anger, hatred, fear. 1551 01:16:02,357 --> 01:16:05,193 I had the honor to spend a week in Dharamsala 1552 01:16:05,193 --> 01:16:07,029 at the invitation of His Holiness 1553 01:16:07,029 --> 01:16:08,564 for a remarkable meeting, 1554 01:16:08,564 --> 01:16:09,831 “The Nature of Life”, 1555 01:16:09,831 --> 01:16:12,834 and it was a truly remarkable experience. 1556 01:16:12,834 --> 01:16:14,469 It was a discussion we were having to do 1557 01:16:14,469 --> 01:16:17,005 about embryonic stem cells. 1558 01:16:17,673 --> 01:16:19,875 And it was offered 1559 01:16:19,875 --> 01:16:21,009 from the Buddhist perspective 1560 01:16:21,009 --> 01:16:23,045 that the Abhidharma mentions that 1561 01:16:23,045 --> 01:16:26,682 through the meeting of two regenerative substances 1562 01:16:26,682 --> 01:16:28,183 of the mother and the father, 1563 01:16:28,183 --> 01:16:31,386 consciousness enters and the being then becomes sentient. 1564 01:16:31,386 --> 01:16:34,990 From which you might reason that the being 1565 01:16:34,990 --> 01:16:37,559 becomes a sentient immediately at fertilization, 1566 01:16:37,559 --> 01:16:41,196 and that there would therefore be very serious problems 1567 01:16:41,196 --> 01:16:43,265 with working with such a cell. 1568 01:16:43,265 --> 01:16:45,434 And that was the opening position, the opening thought. 1569 01:16:45,434 --> 01:16:48,804 And as more scientific discussion went back and forth 1570 01:16:48,804 --> 01:16:51,406 about this point, it emerged that yes, 1571 01:16:51,406 --> 01:16:54,710 but if you took embryos and separated the cells 1572 01:16:54,710 --> 01:16:57,479 you got two people, not one. 1573 01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:01,750 And if you implanted an embryo it was no guarantee 1574 01:17:01,750 --> 01:17:03,185 that you would even get a single person, 1575 01:17:03,185 --> 01:17:04,152 you might get none, 1576 01:17:04,152 --> 01:17:08,290 because most embryos spontaneously abort. 1577 01:17:08,290 --> 01:17:10,892 And so maybe it wasn't so simple. And maybe in fact -- 1578 01:17:10,892 --> 01:17:13,395 and it was just a remarkable 1579 01:17:13,395 --> 01:17:14,596 moment for me as a scientist 1580 01:17:14,596 --> 01:17:17,566 hearing the Buddhists and His Holiness discussing this. 1581 01:17:17,566 --> 01:17:19,067 Maybe, in fact, 1582 01:17:19,067 --> 01:17:21,236 there was a different interpretation there, 1583 01:17:21,236 --> 01:17:23,538 and maybe there was no negative karma associated 1584 01:17:23,538 --> 01:17:25,641 with experimentation at that point. 1585 01:17:25,641 --> 01:17:27,509 I think our 1586 01:17:27,509 --> 01:17:29,044 knowledge about consciousness, 1587 01:17:29,044 --> 01:17:31,380 as time goes, time passes, 1588 01:17:31,380 --> 01:17:32,748 I think will increase, 1589 01:17:32,748 --> 01:17:33,715 this is my feeling. 1590 01:17:33,715 --> 01:17:36,218 Right now in the west, people 1591 01:17:36,218 --> 01:17:38,387 are trying to write about 1592 01:17:38,387 --> 01:17:40,689 the ethical questions in genetics. 1593 01:17:40,689 --> 01:17:47,195 And I hope that the monks here and yourself 1594 01:17:47,195 --> 01:17:49,965 don't feel like you have to wait. 1595 01:17:49,965 --> 01:17:51,800 I know several of the monks have said, 1596 01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,769 "Well, I have so much to learn and so much to learn." 1597 01:17:53,769 --> 01:17:56,371 You also have so much to teach. 1598 01:18:17,859 --> 01:18:21,997 Still a lot of things to further develop. 1599 01:18:21,997 --> 01:18:26,568 So combination of discussion, you see, 1600 01:18:26,568 --> 01:18:29,838 helps to extend knowledge, 1601 01:18:30,405 --> 01:18:32,274 and the field of scientific research 1602 01:18:32,274 --> 01:18:34,509 also now can expand. 1603 01:18:36,278 --> 01:18:38,213 The Dalai Lama supported opening the field 1604 01:18:38,213 --> 01:18:39,748 of contemplative neuroscience 1605 01:18:39,748 --> 01:18:42,684 to a new generation. 1606 01:18:43,618 --> 01:18:45,687 I'm a neuroscientist, and I did my PhD 1607 01:18:45,687 --> 01:18:48,690 and postdoctoral work at Emory University. 1608 01:18:49,057 --> 01:18:51,827 And they suggested that I go to the Summer Research Institute. 1609 01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:54,329 And then following on that I was able 1610 01:18:54,329 --> 01:18:55,831 to get a grant to do a research study, 1611 01:18:55,831 --> 01:18:57,566 a neuroimaging study on meditation, 1612 01:18:57,566 --> 01:18:59,534 and so that really launched my career 1613 01:18:59,534 --> 01:19:01,336 into a different direction. 1614 01:19:03,405 --> 01:19:04,873 The Summer Research Institute is 1615 01:19:04,873 --> 01:19:07,109 really instrumental in this whole field. 1616 01:19:07,109 --> 01:19:09,678 They bring in a lot of the senior researchers and scholars, 1617 01:19:09,678 --> 01:19:11,413 and a lot of the younger graduate students and postdocs 1618 01:19:11,713 --> 01:19:12,681 that are coming up, 1619 01:19:12,681 --> 01:19:15,050 and the idea is to really foster our development. 1620 01:19:17,219 --> 01:19:18,720 Young scientists who attend 1621 01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:20,722 the Summer Research Institute are eligible 1622 01:19:20,722 --> 01:19:24,326 to apply for a $20,000 Varela grant. 1623 01:19:24,693 --> 01:19:28,130 More than sixty-three million in follow on grant research funding 1624 01:19:28,130 --> 01:19:30,265 in the field of contemplative neuroscience 1625 01:19:30,265 --> 01:19:32,701 has been raised as a result. 1626 01:19:32,701 --> 01:19:36,671 If you put out a request for papers to a conference, 1627 01:19:36,671 --> 01:19:38,273 who should be allowed to speak? 1628 01:19:38,273 --> 01:19:41,276 You know, if you're a young person 1629 01:19:41,276 --> 01:19:43,945 and you're just getting your feet wet you may 1630 01:19:43,945 --> 01:19:47,315 actually be making a fool of yourself when you get up 1631 01:19:47,649 --> 01:19:51,453 and give your poster paper or your presentation, 1632 01:19:51,453 --> 01:19:54,189 but actually that's part of growing into the field. 1633 01:19:54,189 --> 01:19:58,126 There's a nurturing that you can do of a community 1634 01:19:58,126 --> 01:20:00,862 through inclusion in a conference. 1635 01:20:02,297 --> 01:20:04,332 Neuroscientist Amishi Jha 1636 01:20:04,332 --> 01:20:08,170 was awarded a Varela Grant in the year 2005. 1637 01:20:08,170 --> 01:20:13,141 Hello, everyone. Can you hear me? All right. 1638 01:20:15,644 --> 01:20:18,980 Can you see my face? OK. 1639 01:20:18,980 --> 01:20:23,518 The Dalai Lama's intervention allows me to take very seriously 1640 01:20:23,518 --> 01:20:26,721 the wisdom that comes from the Buddhist texts. 1641 01:20:26,721 --> 01:20:28,990 Even in the conversation I had with him directly 1642 01:20:28,990 --> 01:20:30,559 during this meeting, 1643 01:20:30,559 --> 01:20:31,793 it was clear that 1644 01:20:31,793 --> 01:20:33,528 this terrain he knows well. 1645 01:20:33,528 --> 01:20:36,631 And in some sense my results were so familiar 1646 01:20:36,631 --> 01:20:38,834 to him that he almost thought there were obvious. 1647 01:20:38,834 --> 01:20:40,735 That's sort of shocking because it's taken us 1648 01:20:40,735 --> 01:20:43,538 about seventy years of attention research in 1649 01:20:43,538 --> 01:20:45,640 the field of cognitive neuroscience to really 1650 01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:48,376 come to a clear answer to some of these questions. 1651 01:20:48,376 --> 01:20:51,079 And to him it was what he predicted and it's what 1652 01:20:51,079 --> 01:20:53,181 he was happy to see, but he wasn't surprised by it. 1653 01:20:53,181 --> 01:20:57,519 It's definitely helped me feel like I have a whole 1654 01:20:57,519 --> 01:21:00,856 other goldmine of thought to lean on 1655 01:21:00,856 --> 01:21:03,024 for motivating hypotheses in our studies. 1656 01:21:03,024 --> 01:21:05,493 So Buddha himself, you see, made clear -- 1657 01:21:05,493 --> 01:21:09,497 all my followers, monks, scholars, 1658 01:21:09,497 --> 01:21:12,133 should not accept my teaching out of faith, 1659 01:21:12,133 --> 01:21:16,471 but rather a thorough investigation and experiment. 1660 01:21:18,073 --> 01:21:21,543 Today we have the great privilege of exploring 1661 01:21:21,543 --> 01:21:24,246 what is one of the greatest mysteries of all, 1662 01:21:24,246 --> 01:21:28,016 the nature of consciousness, the nature of the mind. 1663 01:21:28,016 --> 01:21:31,653 Professor Christof Koch, who's a professor of biology 1664 01:21:31,653 --> 01:21:33,521 and engineering at Caltech. 1665 01:21:33,521 --> 01:21:36,992 He is also the chief scientist 1666 01:21:36,992 --> 01:21:39,294 at the Paul Allen Institute 1667 01:21:39,294 --> 01:21:42,130 for Brain Science, a remarkable new initiative. 1668 01:21:42,130 --> 01:21:44,199 Your Holiness, I have the great responsibility 1669 01:21:44,199 --> 01:21:48,003 of representing 2,300 years of Western thought 1670 01:21:48,003 --> 01:21:48,937 on this in one hour. 1671 01:21:49,037 --> 01:21:51,172 This tradition reaches back all the way 1672 01:21:51,172 --> 01:21:53,441 to the Greeks in Western thought. 1673 01:21:53,441 --> 01:21:58,013 It's this tradition that stresses the empirical calling of nature. 1674 01:21:58,013 --> 01:22:00,215 You can think about things but ultimately 1675 01:22:00,215 --> 01:22:01,983 you have to test them against reality, 1676 01:22:01,983 --> 01:22:03,785 and your theories including theories of 1677 01:22:03,785 --> 01:22:05,453 consciousness have to be testable, 1678 01:22:05,453 --> 01:22:07,989 otherwise they are not scientific theories. 1679 01:22:08,523 --> 01:22:11,626 When I spent a week with His Holiness the Dalai Lama. 1680 01:22:11,626 --> 01:22:12,994 I was struck by how often he talked about 1681 01:22:12,994 --> 01:22:17,432 the need to reduce the suffering of all conscious creatures, 1682 01:22:17,432 --> 01:22:18,867 not just all people. 1683 01:22:19,668 --> 01:22:22,537 That highly organised matter such as my brain, 1684 01:22:22,537 --> 01:22:24,739 such as your brain, such as the brains of other creatures, 1685 01:22:24,739 --> 01:22:26,841 comes with conscious experience. 1686 01:22:26,841 --> 01:22:29,644 I was struck by particular types of meditation. 1687 01:22:29,644 --> 01:22:33,748 You can have what Buddhists call a naked awareness, 1688 01:22:33,748 --> 01:22:35,650 pure experience, sheer experience, 1689 01:22:35,650 --> 01:22:38,753 when you're conscious, so you're not asleep, 1690 01:22:38,753 --> 01:22:40,088 you're conscious, but there's no content, 1691 01:22:40,088 --> 01:22:42,090 there's no desire, no dream, 1692 01:22:42,090 --> 01:22:43,992 no fear, no ego, 1693 01:22:43,992 --> 01:22:45,593 no sensory messages, 1694 01:22:45,593 --> 01:22:47,162 but you're still conscious. 1695 01:22:47,162 --> 01:22:49,631 Pure consciousness, very interesting. 1696 01:22:52,734 --> 01:22:54,803 More and more there was strong and 1697 01:22:54,803 --> 01:22:56,905 growing support for the concept 1698 01:22:56,905 --> 01:22:58,974 of allowing young Buddhist scholars 1699 01:22:58,974 --> 01:23:00,642 who had mastered these techniques of controlling 1700 01:23:00,642 --> 01:23:03,244 their own minds to also 1701 01:23:03,244 --> 01:23:06,348 be trained as scientists themselves. 1702 01:23:06,514 --> 01:23:09,684 I think now more than ten years we 1703 01:23:09,684 --> 01:23:13,588 start selected monk students 1704 01:23:13,588 --> 01:23:16,825 and in a special sort of class for science. 1705 01:23:16,825 --> 01:23:19,494 I will just make a brief outline 1706 01:23:19,494 --> 01:23:21,329 how we are overseeing 1707 01:23:21,329 --> 01:23:22,864 many of the science initiatives 1708 01:23:22,864 --> 01:23:23,932 that are taking place 1709 01:23:23,932 --> 01:23:26,067 due to the guidance of His Holiness. 1710 01:23:26,067 --> 01:23:27,936 The science for the monks 1711 01:23:27,936 --> 01:23:31,740 is an initiative since the year 2001. 1712 01:23:31,740 --> 01:23:33,408 That was followed by the 1713 01:23:33,408 --> 01:23:35,744 secular science leadership. 1714 01:23:35,744 --> 01:23:38,146 The leadership program came into being because 1715 01:23:38,146 --> 01:23:39,881 we felt that was important not only to give the basic 1716 01:23:39,881 --> 01:23:43,251 science education but also to create a network 1717 01:23:43,251 --> 01:23:46,388 of science teachers or others who do the fieldwork 1718 01:23:46,388 --> 01:23:48,390 in different monasteries. 1719 01:23:49,391 --> 01:23:51,726 Many science teachers, 1720 01:23:51,726 --> 01:23:53,228 they very much impressed. 1721 01:23:53,228 --> 01:23:54,896 These monk students 1722 01:23:55,430 --> 01:23:57,298 do not know English, 1723 01:23:57,298 --> 01:23:59,401 do not know math, mathematic. 1724 01:23:59,534 --> 01:24:03,238 But their way to thinking, to analyze, 1725 01:24:03,238 --> 01:24:04,906 you see, very sharp. 1726 01:24:05,874 --> 01:24:09,444 In 2006, 1727 01:24:09,444 --> 01:24:10,745 when Your Holiness invited us 1728 01:24:10,745 --> 01:24:12,347 to collaborate with the library, 1729 01:24:12,347 --> 01:24:14,115 of Tibetan works and archives, 1730 01:24:14,115 --> 01:24:16,484 to develop this program, 1731 01:24:16,484 --> 01:24:18,553 it was a great honor for Emory University . 1732 01:24:18,553 --> 01:24:21,923 Certainly a program like this is 1733 01:24:21,923 --> 01:24:25,827 its aim is not only 1734 01:24:25,827 --> 01:24:28,730 to impart modern science education 1735 01:24:28,730 --> 01:24:30,965 for the Tibetan monks and nuns, 1736 01:24:31,433 --> 01:24:33,101 but His Holiness' vision 1737 01:24:33,101 --> 01:24:35,737 here is to prepare 1738 01:24:35,737 --> 01:24:38,973 the future contemplative collaborators with 1739 01:24:38,973 --> 01:24:40,642 the science so that 1740 01:24:40,642 --> 01:24:42,343 new knowledge can be formed 1741 01:24:42,343 --> 01:24:44,279 which can have a 1742 01:24:44,279 --> 01:24:47,749 tremendous benefit for the humanity at large. 1743 01:24:47,749 --> 01:24:50,418 And then monk students 1744 01:24:50,418 --> 01:24:52,353 themselves also gradually, 1745 01:24:52,353 --> 01:24:54,155 they really found 1746 01:24:54,322 --> 01:24:55,457 not only just interest 1747 01:24:55,457 --> 01:24:57,425 but something very useful. 1748 01:24:57,826 --> 01:24:59,094 Extensive science curriculum 1749 01:24:59,094 --> 01:25:01,296 has been created and translated. 1750 01:25:01,296 --> 01:25:03,631 Many Tibetan monks have been trained 1751 01:25:03,631 --> 01:25:05,166 over years at Emory University 1752 01:25:05,166 --> 01:25:06,568 to become science teachers 1753 01:25:06,568 --> 01:25:07,869 for the project, 1754 01:25:08,103 --> 01:25:10,672 and new science centers have been created 1755 01:25:10,672 --> 01:25:12,807 at all of the leading Tibetan monasteries in India. 1756 01:25:13,341 --> 01:25:14,609 For the first time 1757 01:25:14,609 --> 01:25:15,844 in two thousand years, 1758 01:25:15,844 --> 01:25:17,745 a dramatic change has been made 1759 01:25:17,745 --> 01:25:19,848 in Tibetan monastic education. 1760 01:25:19,848 --> 01:25:21,850 Science has officially become 1761 01:25:21,850 --> 01:25:23,918 a required course of study. 1762 01:25:25,954 --> 01:25:29,858 And if we can implement knowledge from 1763 01:25:29,858 --> 01:25:32,927 Buddhist science and Buddhist philosophy, 1764 01:25:32,927 --> 01:25:35,997 then we can create a collaboration 1765 01:25:35,997 --> 01:25:38,266 of knowledge which can 1766 01:25:38,266 --> 01:25:40,135 have a very positive outcome. 1767 01:25:40,135 --> 01:25:42,036 Although the outcome 1768 01:25:42,036 --> 01:25:43,838 may not appear immediately, 1769 01:25:43,838 --> 01:25:45,807 in the long run 1770 01:25:45,807 --> 01:25:48,243 they will be great results and 1771 01:25:48,243 --> 01:25:49,878 great progress. 1772 01:25:49,878 --> 01:25:52,280 And I see it as a contribution 1773 01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:54,749 to the future generations, 1774 01:25:54,749 --> 01:25:58,353 and, ah, humanity as a whole. 1775 01:26:02,824 --> 01:26:04,926 The Dalai Lama also encouraged the development 1776 01:26:04,926 --> 01:26:08,463 of new scientifically based education curriculum for youth. 1777 01:26:08,463 --> 01:26:12,233 A conference was held in 2018 for the 1778 01:26:12,233 --> 01:26:14,269 presentation of some model programs. 1779 01:26:14,269 --> 01:26:18,573 And so your office extended an invitation to individuals 1780 01:26:18,573 --> 01:26:22,277 around the world to think about building curricula 1781 01:26:22,277 --> 01:26:23,778 that have an ethical dimension to them. 1782 01:26:23,778 --> 01:26:27,382 And this is where Jennifer Knox and her colleagues 1783 01:26:27,382 --> 01:26:30,785 in the group at Emory have been doing some 1784 01:26:30,785 --> 01:26:31,586 really fundamental work. 1785 01:26:31,719 --> 01:26:36,024 Their program is called, the SEE Program, 1786 01:26:36,024 --> 01:26:38,359 social, emotional, and ethical learning. 1787 01:26:38,893 --> 01:26:43,097 Three focuses of inner focus and emotional intelligence, 1788 01:26:43,097 --> 01:26:46,501 other focus, social intelligence, 1789 01:26:46,501 --> 01:26:49,704 and outer focus, systems intelligence. 1790 01:26:49,704 --> 01:26:53,141 Many individuals who are in our culture 1791 01:26:53,141 --> 01:26:54,943 have experienced trauma 1792 01:26:55,243 --> 01:26:57,579 and so without developing 1793 01:26:57,579 --> 01:26:59,714 some fundamental skills of 1794 01:26:59,714 --> 01:27:01,182 regulating the nervous system, 1795 01:27:01,216 --> 01:27:02,550 the students are not 1796 01:27:02,550 --> 01:27:03,885 often able to even 1797 01:27:03,885 --> 01:27:05,620 move into a meditation and the breath 1798 01:27:05,620 --> 01:27:07,155 can often be a trigger 1799 01:27:07,155 --> 01:27:08,823 for that former trauma. 1800 01:27:08,823 --> 01:27:10,992 So we've built in an entire chapter 1801 01:27:10,992 --> 01:27:12,493 based on building 1802 01:27:12,493 --> 01:27:15,296 skills of resilience. 1803 01:27:15,296 --> 01:27:17,498 Scientifically based on the breakthroughs 1804 01:27:17,498 --> 01:27:18,866 that have been made in the fields 1805 01:27:18,866 --> 01:27:19,667 of cognitive science, 1806 01:27:19,667 --> 01:27:21,169 epigenetics, 1807 01:27:21,169 --> 01:27:22,170 and neuroscience 1808 01:27:22,170 --> 01:27:23,137 over the past thirty years, 1809 01:27:23,171 --> 01:27:24,973 the SEE program teaches 1810 01:27:24,973 --> 01:27:26,674 effective coping skills, 1811 01:27:26,674 --> 01:27:30,111 strategies that can used to regulate emotion, 1812 01:27:30,111 --> 01:27:32,180 and strategies to gain focus. 1813 01:27:32,180 --> 01:27:34,182 Now the modern knowledge, 1814 01:27:34,182 --> 01:27:35,416 education, 1815 01:27:36,751 --> 01:27:42,123 not adequate to bring happy society. 1816 01:27:42,123 --> 01:27:46,261 We create some problem, disagreement, 1817 01:27:47,128 --> 01:27:50,265 then the solution, 1818 01:27:50,265 --> 01:27:55,136 we put the responsibility of the solution on gun. 1819 01:27:56,938 --> 01:27:58,640 Totally wrong. 1820 01:27:59,140 --> 01:28:01,175 The SEE program has been translated 1821 01:28:01,175 --> 01:28:02,977 into twelve different languages 1822 01:28:02,977 --> 01:28:05,146 and in April of 2019 1823 01:28:05,146 --> 01:28:06,681 the Dalai Lama launched 1824 01:28:06,681 --> 01:28:08,549 the program worldwide. 1825 01:28:13,888 --> 01:28:17,625 This is our thirtieth dialogue. 1826 01:28:18,393 --> 01:28:22,130 Thirty occasions where we have sat with His Holiness, 1827 01:28:22,130 --> 01:28:25,433 scientists, philosophers, scholars 1828 01:28:25,433 --> 01:28:28,269 and contemplatives, 1829 01:28:28,269 --> 01:28:31,406 investigating the relationship between 1830 01:28:31,406 --> 01:28:34,242 Buddhist science and modern science. 1831 01:28:34,242 --> 01:28:36,411 We also want to acknowledge 1832 01:28:36,411 --> 01:28:39,714 your dear friend Francisco Varela 1833 01:28:39,714 --> 01:28:41,816 whose vision 1834 01:28:41,816 --> 01:28:45,019 made it possible in a very powerful 1835 01:28:45,019 --> 01:28:47,655 way for all of us to be together 1836 01:28:47,655 --> 01:28:49,991 and to greet Amy Varela. 1837 01:28:49,991 --> 01:28:51,626 Where are you Amy? 1838 01:28:51,626 --> 01:28:57,598 Who is president of the board of Mind & Life Europe. 1839 01:29:02,337 --> 01:29:04,539 Creating bridges through dialogue 1840 01:29:04,539 --> 01:29:05,773 is not a quick 1841 01:29:05,773 --> 01:29:08,142 and straightforward process. 1842 01:29:08,476 --> 01:29:11,145 To participate in a true dialogue, 1843 01:29:11,145 --> 01:29:13,281 you must bring to it 1844 01:29:13,281 --> 01:29:15,783 the whole of yourself. 1845 01:29:16,184 --> 01:29:18,152 You must expect that building a bridge 1846 01:29:18,152 --> 01:29:20,722 may be slow, difficult, 1847 01:29:20,722 --> 01:29:23,224 even threatening at times. 1848 01:29:23,224 --> 01:29:25,426 Its essence is in its dynamical 1849 01:29:25,426 --> 01:29:26,661 and open nature, 1850 01:29:27,261 --> 01:29:29,130 which is a necessary condition 1851 01:29:29,130 --> 01:29:31,399 for something really new 1852 01:29:31,399 --> 01:29:33,634 to emerge from it. 1853 01:29:33,634 --> 01:29:35,436 And the active ingredient 1854 01:29:35,436 --> 01:29:38,873 in the production of something radically new 1855 01:29:38,873 --> 01:29:41,175 is personal commitment. 1856 01:29:41,175 --> 01:29:42,910 Absolute presence 1857 01:29:42,910 --> 01:29:45,480 through compassion and friendship. 1858 01:29:46,214 --> 01:29:49,283 Gentle bridges, a true dialogue between 1859 01:29:49,283 --> 01:29:51,753 the Western and the Buddhist traditions 1860 01:29:51,753 --> 01:29:53,421 for investigating 1861 01:29:53,421 --> 01:29:55,323 the nature of reality. 1862 01:29:56,357 --> 01:29:58,526 The Dalai Lama continued to push for 1863 01:29:58,526 --> 01:30:00,328 the expansion of dialogue with 1864 01:30:00,328 --> 01:30:01,796 other scientists from many 1865 01:30:01,796 --> 01:30:03,197 other parts of the world. 1866 01:30:03,798 --> 01:30:04,799 From Africa, 1867 01:30:05,700 --> 01:30:07,235 to Japan. 1868 01:30:08,202 --> 01:30:10,338 With Russian scientists, 1869 01:30:10,571 --> 01:30:12,940 and with Chinese scientists. 1870 01:30:12,940 --> 01:30:17,712 Now we are going to have one meeting 1871 01:30:17,712 --> 01:30:20,214 with Chinese scientists. 1872 01:30:20,214 --> 01:30:21,883 This is first time. 1873 01:30:21,883 --> 01:30:24,285 So there is real potential 1874 01:30:24,285 --> 01:30:26,120 Now here we are a few people. 1875 01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:30,558 But we are representing billions of people. OK. 1876 01:30:32,460 --> 01:30:34,829 And that's, not academic, 1877 01:30:34,829 --> 01:30:37,899 but world passing through some kind of 1878 01:30:37,899 --> 01:30:40,668 crisis of emotion, 1879 01:30:40,668 --> 01:30:44,105 that emotion will not go, 1880 01:30:44,105 --> 01:30:47,942 go away by prayer 1881 01:30:47,942 --> 01:30:50,044 but training our mind. 1882 01:30:50,778 --> 01:30:53,314 In order to train our mind, 1883 01:30:53,314 --> 01:30:55,483 we should have fuller knowledge 1884 01:30:55,483 --> 01:30:56,884 about the whole system 1885 01:30:56,884 --> 01:30:58,986 of our emotion and mind. 1886 01:30:58,986 --> 01:31:02,757 We will certainly welcome you in Taiwan 1887 01:31:02,757 --> 01:31:05,927 and we are initiating continual discussions 1888 01:31:05,927 --> 01:31:07,862 in Taiwan sometime. 1889 01:31:07,862 --> 01:31:09,630 Thank you. 1890 01:31:12,733 --> 01:31:14,435 On his eightieth birthday, 1891 01:31:14,435 --> 01:31:16,971 the Dalai Lama publicly reaffirmed 1892 01:31:16,971 --> 01:31:18,406 his commitment to stand 1893 01:31:18,406 --> 01:31:20,107 shoulder to shoulder with scientists 1894 01:31:20,107 --> 01:31:22,109 as they tackle the toughest issues 1895 01:31:22,109 --> 01:31:23,644 facing humanity. 1896 01:31:23,644 --> 01:31:25,780 I'm a simple Buddhist monk, 1897 01:31:25,780 --> 01:31:27,682 but at the same time 1898 01:31:27,682 --> 01:31:31,385 eventually I become very close with scientists. 1899 01:31:31,986 --> 01:31:33,554 In our training, 1900 01:31:33,554 --> 01:31:36,491 reason become very important. 1901 01:31:37,225 --> 01:31:39,427 So this scientific way, 1902 01:31:39,427 --> 01:31:40,761 it compels us. 1903 01:31:40,761 --> 01:31:42,363 Now think, 1904 01:31:42,363 --> 01:31:45,466 how to utilize their sort of findings, 1905 01:31:45,466 --> 01:31:47,068 translate into action. 1906 01:31:47,068 --> 01:31:48,636 New ideas. 1907 01:31:48,636 --> 01:31:50,471 New way. 1908 01:31:50,738 --> 01:31:53,140 Scientists really showing, 1909 01:31:54,141 --> 01:31:55,977 I think, genuine interest in 1910 01:31:55,977 --> 01:31:58,779 trying to make a better world. 1911 01:31:58,779 --> 01:32:03,150 So this is the sign of progress. 1912 01:32:05,753 --> 01:32:09,924 So therefore, remain a little bit skeptical. 1913 01:32:09,924 --> 01:32:13,327 Then, skepticism brings doubt. 1914 01:32:13,327 --> 01:32:16,664 Doubt brings investigation. 1915 01:32:17,532 --> 01:32:18,799 Buddha stated, 1916 01:32:18,799 --> 01:32:20,535 all my followers, 1917 01:32:20,535 --> 01:32:22,770 monks, scholars, 1918 01:32:22,770 --> 01:32:25,006 should not accept 1919 01:32:25,006 --> 01:32:30,845 my teaching out of faith, out of devotion, 1920 01:32:30,845 --> 01:32:33,881 but rather thorough investigation 1921 01:32:33,881 --> 01:32:36,050 and experiment. 1922 01:32:36,384 --> 01:32:37,652 Through that way, 1923 01:32:37,652 --> 01:32:38,753 once you're convinced, 1924 01:32:38,753 --> 01:32:41,022 then you accept my teaching. 1925 01:32:41,956 --> 01:32:45,293 So, this is quite, sort of, scientific way. 1926 01:32:45,293 --> 01:32:46,327 So, therefore, 1927 01:32:46,327 --> 01:32:48,362 my body, 1928 01:32:48,362 --> 01:32:49,897 this person, 1929 01:32:49,897 --> 01:32:51,666 half Buddhist monk, 1930 01:32:51,666 --> 01:32:53,935 half scientist. 1931 01:32:54,305 --> 01:33:54,171 Please rate this subtitle at www.osdb.link/74ytc Help other users to choose the best subtitles 142305

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