Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:12,074
Support us and become VIP member
to remove all ads from www.OpenSubtitles.org
2
00:00:28,928 --> 00:00:32,699
Eighty-five years ago, in a remote corner of Tibet,
3
00:00:33,533 --> 00:00:36,536
a little boy was born to a poor farming family.
4
00:00:39,939 --> 00:00:41,875
One day, miraculously,
5
00:00:41,875 --> 00:00:43,243
he was discovered
6
00:00:43,243 --> 00:00:46,546
to be the reincarnation of the 13th Dalai Lama,
7
00:00:47,047 --> 00:00:50,183
and he was soon carried away to the capital city of Lhasa,
8
00:00:50,517 --> 00:00:53,553
to become the next political and spiritual leader,
9
00:00:53,553 --> 00:00:55,989
of the vast kingdom of Tibet.
10
00:00:58,091 --> 00:00:59,759
But the little boy had a secret,
11
00:00:59,759 --> 00:01:01,361
locked inside his heart.
12
00:01:29,556 --> 00:01:32,358
Since my childhood, I love technology.
13
00:01:34,094 --> 00:01:36,262
If I had not become the Dalai Lama
14
00:01:36,262 --> 00:01:39,432
and I still remain in my native place,
15
00:01:39,799 --> 00:01:42,168
then eventually so I may be
16
00:01:42,168 --> 00:01:44,704
engineer or electrician. Since childhood,
17
00:01:44,704 --> 00:01:46,306
always a curiosity.
18
00:01:46,306 --> 00:01:48,541
Something, new things to see,
19
00:01:48,541 --> 00:01:50,310
I always developed the question,
20
00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:52,378
Why? Why? How? How? Always happen.
21
00:01:53,179 --> 00:01:55,748
I think real introducer about technology
22
00:01:55,982 --> 00:01:58,251
is some small toy,
23
00:02:00,019 --> 00:02:01,387
small machines.
24
00:02:01,387 --> 00:02:03,556
Then I play a few moments,
25
00:02:03,556 --> 00:02:06,593
and then out of my curiosity
26
00:02:06,593 --> 00:02:09,395
I always open, dismantle.
27
00:02:11,731 --> 00:02:15,602
I think maybe fifty/fifty chance to re-assemble.
28
00:02:15,602 --> 00:02:17,470
Fifty failed.
29
00:02:19,873 --> 00:02:23,042
And then, actually not much interest for study.
30
00:02:23,042 --> 00:02:26,980
I'm really very, very lazy student.
31
00:02:26,980 --> 00:02:29,115
I always prefer play.
32
00:02:29,649 --> 00:02:32,318
One movie projector which belonged to 13th Dalai Lama --
33
00:02:32,318 --> 00:02:35,288
because it's now quite old so,
34
00:02:35,288 --> 00:02:37,390
quite often you see, broke down.
35
00:02:37,824 --> 00:02:41,661
Small dynamo, produce electricity.
36
00:02:41,661 --> 00:02:47,267
Then I begin to realize AC, DC, how it works.
37
00:02:47,567 --> 00:02:50,336
So then gradually, you see, developed
38
00:02:50,336 --> 00:02:52,438
interest about science.
39
00:02:54,941 --> 00:02:59,546
I have a keen interest about cosmology.
40
00:03:01,648 --> 00:03:02,949
My telescope,
41
00:03:02,949 --> 00:03:06,653
I used to use it to look at the moon.
42
00:03:07,654 --> 00:03:11,658
Then I found some rock mountains.
43
00:03:12,358 --> 00:03:15,061
Western side, shadow there.
44
00:03:15,061 --> 00:03:16,996
East side, no shadow.
45
00:03:17,163 --> 00:03:21,234
Moon, no light.
46
00:03:22,202 --> 00:03:25,171
But light only from sun.
47
00:03:26,072 --> 00:03:26,773
Clear.
48
00:03:26,773 --> 00:03:29,542
One full moon night,
49
00:03:31,010 --> 00:03:33,413
I arrange my telescope.
50
00:03:33,746 --> 00:03:37,383
And I invited my tutors,
51
00:03:38,785 --> 00:03:42,322
"Please look whether light come from sun."
52
00:03:43,022 --> 00:03:46,326
So they seriously watch,
53
00:03:46,326 --> 00:03:48,995
and then agree, "Yes."
54
00:03:48,995 --> 00:03:51,931
"Moon -- no light. Light come from sun."
55
00:03:52,265 --> 00:03:57,570
So then, 1954, when I was in Peking, China,
56
00:03:57,570 --> 00:04:03,743
we visit huge hydroelectricity factory.
57
00:04:03,743 --> 00:04:05,578
I have sort of keen interest
58
00:04:05,578 --> 00:04:10,650
and then asking some questions to those engineer,
59
00:04:10,650 --> 00:04:13,186
or electrician, electrician right?
60
00:04:14,287 --> 00:04:18,324
About the differences of AC and DC, and these things.
61
00:04:18,324 --> 00:04:21,327
And then also you see different sort of factories.
62
00:04:21,461 --> 00:04:23,763
I think I was the only person
63
00:04:23,763 --> 00:04:28,801
fully alert to see how it work.
64
00:04:31,504 --> 00:04:34,207
The Communist Chinese army entered Tibet
65
00:04:34,207 --> 00:04:37,176
in 1950, and despite the many months
66
00:04:37,176 --> 00:04:39,078
that the young Dalai Lama spent in
67
00:04:39,078 --> 00:04:40,880
high level meetings in Beijing,
68
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,215
when he returned to Lhasa,
69
00:04:42,215 --> 00:04:45,585
negotiations with Chinese government leaders
70
00:04:45,585 --> 00:04:47,153
soon began to fail,
71
00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,455
and tensions started to rise.
72
00:04:50,490 --> 00:04:51,557
In 1959,
73
00:04:52,225 --> 00:04:54,827
rumors of a Chinese government plot
74
00:04:54,827 --> 00:04:56,596
to kidnap the Dalai Lama caused
75
00:04:56,596 --> 00:04:59,265
300,000 Tibetan people
76
00:04:59,265 --> 00:05:01,934
to surround the Dalai Lama's palace,
77
00:05:01,934 --> 00:05:04,971
creating a human wall to protect him.
78
00:05:04,971 --> 00:05:07,373
The Dalai Lama was able to secretly leave
79
00:05:07,373 --> 00:05:09,976
in the middle of the night in a daring escape.
80
00:05:10,843 --> 00:05:14,981
Four days later, the Chinese army took action
81
00:05:14,981 --> 00:05:16,883
to disperse the crowd around the palace,
82
00:05:17,183 --> 00:05:20,053
and fighting broke out in Lhasa.
83
00:05:20,053 --> 00:05:23,189
This fighting soon spread across Tibet,
84
00:05:23,189 --> 00:05:25,792
and thousands died in the aftermath.
85
00:05:29,696 --> 00:05:32,899
Many Tibetan families escaped from Tibet
86
00:05:32,899 --> 00:05:34,500
to join the Dalai Lama in India,
87
00:05:34,500 --> 00:05:37,837
where Prime Minister Nehru had granted him land.
88
00:05:38,404 --> 00:05:43,409
At the age of sixteen, I lost my freedom.
89
00:05:43,409 --> 00:05:48,648
At the age of twenty-four, I lost my own country.
90
00:05:49,782 --> 00:05:51,851
And yet, over time,
91
00:05:51,851 --> 00:05:54,320
he was able to create one of the most
92
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,090
successful refugee communities in the world,
93
00:05:57,090 --> 00:05:59,225
run by a democratically elected
94
00:05:59,225 --> 00:06:00,727
Tibetan government in exile,
95
00:06:00,727 --> 00:06:03,529
with the rebuilding of the monasteries,
96
00:06:03,529 --> 00:06:04,731
now in India,
97
00:06:04,731 --> 00:06:06,532
and with the preservation of Tibet's
98
00:06:06,532 --> 00:06:08,101
unique Buddhist science,
99
00:06:08,101 --> 00:06:10,436
philosophy, spiritual traditions,
100
00:06:10,436 --> 00:06:12,939
language and culture.
101
00:06:17,043 --> 00:06:18,911
Gradually, the Dalai Lama began
102
00:06:18,911 --> 00:06:19,879
to have opportunities
103
00:06:19,879 --> 00:06:22,448
to begin meeting with leading scientists.
104
00:06:23,416 --> 00:06:24,817
David Bohm,
105
00:06:25,752 --> 00:06:26,753
Von Weizsacker,
106
00:06:27,019 --> 00:06:28,654
and some other,
107
00:06:29,288 --> 00:06:30,690
great scientists.
108
00:06:33,159 --> 00:06:35,528
These people become my friend,
109
00:06:35,528 --> 00:06:37,597
and not only friend,
110
00:06:37,597 --> 00:06:40,233
but Von Weizsacker and David Bohm,
111
00:06:40,233 --> 00:06:44,971
I consider my own teacher of physics,
112
00:06:45,671 --> 00:06:47,907
generally, and particularly quantum physics.
113
00:06:48,107 --> 00:06:50,777
But science is always seen as measurement,
114
00:06:51,177 --> 00:06:53,246
is that no longer true?
115
00:06:53,246 --> 00:06:55,948
Well, science is whatever people make of it.
116
00:06:55,948 --> 00:06:57,617
You see, science has changed over the ages,
117
00:06:57,617 --> 00:06:59,986
and it's different now from a few hundred years ago,
118
00:06:59,986 --> 00:07:01,654
and it could be different again.
119
00:07:01,654 --> 00:07:04,357
Now, there's no intrinsic reason
120
00:07:04,357 --> 00:07:06,993
why science must necessarily be measurement.
121
00:07:06,993 --> 00:07:09,595
This is another historical development
122
00:07:09,595 --> 00:07:12,131
which has come about over the past few centuries
123
00:07:12,131 --> 00:07:14,834
that is entirely contingent and not absolutely necessary.
124
00:07:15,935 --> 00:07:19,071
And when Einstein produced his special theory,
125
00:07:19,071 --> 00:07:21,674
which The Times newspaper of London
126
00:07:21,674 --> 00:07:24,310
dismissed as being nonsense, um,
127
00:07:24,811 --> 00:07:27,847
was he moving towards wholeness?
128
00:07:27,847 --> 00:07:29,315
Yes. He definitely was.
129
00:07:29,315 --> 00:07:32,084
As he moved eventually toward
130
00:07:32,084 --> 00:07:33,686
a view of field theory where everything
131
00:07:33,686 --> 00:07:36,489
was one field, all the fields merging.
132
00:07:36,789 --> 00:07:38,591
So, it was a step toward wholeness
133
00:07:38,591 --> 00:07:40,626
although not, you know, it was a limited step
134
00:07:40,626 --> 00:07:41,861
but still it was the beginning.
135
00:07:41,928 --> 00:07:44,397
David Bohm and Carl Von Weizsacker
136
00:07:44,397 --> 00:07:45,998
explained that the great minds
137
00:07:45,998 --> 00:07:48,634
which created the current field of quantum physics
138
00:07:48,634 --> 00:07:50,269
at the turn of the century,
139
00:07:50,269 --> 00:07:52,805
Einstein, Bohr, and others,
140
00:07:52,805 --> 00:07:54,941
created their groundbreaking theories
141
00:07:54,941 --> 00:07:57,009
through thought experiments alone,
142
00:07:57,009 --> 00:07:59,879
not by carrying out experiments in the lab --
143
00:07:59,879 --> 00:08:02,114
thought experiments which were similar
144
00:08:02,114 --> 00:08:04,116
to those created by leading scholars
145
00:08:04,116 --> 00:08:06,953
in the various schools of Tibetan science.
146
00:08:07,386 --> 00:08:10,756
Physics, like quantum physics,
147
00:08:10,756 --> 00:08:12,291
very similar
148
00:08:12,291 --> 00:08:14,827
the Madhyamaka philosophistic view.
149
00:08:15,194 --> 00:08:17,697
Nothing exists objectively.
150
00:08:18,731 --> 00:08:19,699
Wonderful.
151
00:08:19,999 --> 00:08:21,467
After that visit,
152
00:08:21,467 --> 00:08:23,970
the Dalai Lama met with a new group of scientists.
153
00:08:24,370 --> 00:08:27,773
I met His Holiness in '83 at an international conference.
154
00:08:27,773 --> 00:08:32,778
Immediately the charm, his keen intelligence,
155
00:08:32,778 --> 00:08:35,147
and totally unassuming,
156
00:08:35,147 --> 00:08:36,983
just pure interest,
157
00:08:36,983 --> 00:08:38,651
I was very touched by that.
158
00:08:38,651 --> 00:08:40,086
And we were in the middle of this conversation
159
00:08:40,086 --> 00:08:43,222
and his assistants were pulling him by the arm,
160
00:08:43,222 --> 00:08:44,624
"Your Holiness, let's go."
161
00:08:44,624 --> 00:08:46,325
And then he said, "Why don't you
162
00:08:46,325 --> 00:08:48,060
come to Dharamsala
163
00:08:48,060 --> 00:08:50,296
and we can continue these discussions."
164
00:08:52,698 --> 00:08:55,801
It was in February of 1985
165
00:08:55,801 --> 00:08:58,638
that a phone rang, "I'm Francisco Varela,
166
00:08:58,638 --> 00:08:59,805
I'm calling from Paris.
167
00:08:59,805 --> 00:09:02,174
I understand that you're trying to put together
168
00:09:02,174 --> 00:09:04,110
a science meeting with the Dalai Lama."
169
00:09:04,277 --> 00:09:06,612
I was a friend of Francisco Varela's
170
00:09:06,612 --> 00:09:08,981
and Adam Engle came down to the Ojai Foundation
171
00:09:08,981 --> 00:09:12,451
and met with us and we sat under this big oak tree
172
00:09:12,451 --> 00:09:16,355
and we discussed connection between interests
173
00:09:16,355 --> 00:09:18,157
that Francisco and I had
174
00:09:18,157 --> 00:09:21,060
and what Adam and Michael Sautman wanted to do.
175
00:09:21,060 --> 00:09:23,396
And I remember really clearly he said, "Adam,"
176
00:09:23,396 --> 00:09:27,033
he said, "don't do physics, do cognitive science."
177
00:09:27,833 --> 00:09:31,037
It was a really good fit between Adam and Francisco.
178
00:09:31,304 --> 00:09:33,039
They had complementary skills
179
00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:35,274
and so the whole thing began to unfold.
180
00:09:35,274 --> 00:09:37,944
It was very, very extraordinary to watch it.
181
00:09:37,944 --> 00:09:38,911
I mean it happened.
182
00:09:39,078 --> 00:09:42,448
The most interesting things that happen in evolution,
183
00:09:42,448 --> 00:09:44,617
and therefore the most useful things to explain
184
00:09:44,617 --> 00:09:47,987
the diversity of life are internal factors
185
00:09:47,987 --> 00:09:49,655
rather than selective pressures.
186
00:09:49,655 --> 00:09:53,326
Yes, it is true that if the planet goes very cold
187
00:09:53,326 --> 00:09:54,827
animals have to change.
188
00:09:54,827 --> 00:09:56,429
But, how they change,
189
00:09:56,429 --> 00:09:57,730
how they go about it,
190
00:09:57,730 --> 00:10:00,066
is the result of internal factors,
191
00:10:00,066 --> 00:10:02,802
much more so than external factors.
192
00:10:03,235 --> 00:10:05,271
It is as if external factors
193
00:10:05,271 --> 00:10:08,007
impose very broad constraints
194
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,276
but do not, cannot possibly
195
00:10:10,276 --> 00:10:12,278
determine what will happen.
196
00:10:12,278 --> 00:10:15,514
And I find this very interesting because
197
00:10:15,514 --> 00:10:17,883
it's an exact parallel of what we saw
198
00:10:17,883 --> 00:10:20,553
in perception that, yes, we need light
199
00:10:20,553 --> 00:10:22,622
and we need some stimulation in the retina.
200
00:10:22,622 --> 00:10:24,090
Those are the constraints.
201
00:10:24,090 --> 00:10:28,060
But, what we see depends on the internal factors
202
00:10:28,060 --> 00:10:29,829
and the two together give rise
203
00:10:29,829 --> 00:10:32,298
then to some kind of a stable perception.
204
00:10:32,298 --> 00:10:34,934
Well, here it seems to be much the same thing.
205
00:10:34,934 --> 00:10:38,437
The environment gives some kind of constraint on
206
00:10:38,437 --> 00:10:41,741
internal factors, then species and evolution.
207
00:10:42,141 --> 00:10:45,144
His explanation, very clear,
208
00:10:45,144 --> 00:10:46,812
I think very precise.
209
00:10:46,812 --> 00:10:47,780
Very helpful.
210
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,983
A person who have real authority
211
00:10:50,983 --> 00:10:52,585
in certain scientific field,
212
00:10:52,885 --> 00:10:54,387
at the same time,
213
00:10:54,387 --> 00:10:57,456
personally practicing Buddha Dharma,
214
00:10:57,456 --> 00:10:59,158
that's I think quite rare.
215
00:11:00,026 --> 00:11:01,961
So, you see, he can explain
216
00:11:01,961 --> 00:11:05,998
with a more fuller knowledge of both fields,
217
00:11:05,998 --> 00:11:08,434
science and Buddhist philosophy,
218
00:11:08,434 --> 00:11:10,770
so that's very useful, helpful.
219
00:11:10,770 --> 00:11:11,971
Certainly.
220
00:11:12,304 --> 00:11:14,106
There was actually like a huge comet,
221
00:11:15,408 --> 00:11:18,878
but of such dimensions that the just the collision
222
00:11:18,878 --> 00:11:21,947
evaporated the seas so the next,
223
00:11:21,947 --> 00:11:24,817
what was it? I don't know, many years.
224
00:11:24,817 --> 00:11:27,687
It was purely in terms of clouds.
225
00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,490
That meant that you know the dramatic impact of life,
226
00:11:31,490 --> 00:11:34,160
at that point, life virtually was abolished.
227
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:35,127
Who stayed?
228
00:11:35,127 --> 00:11:37,663
As I mentioned yesterday, our little friends.
229
00:11:39,065 --> 00:11:40,166
They were untouched.
230
00:11:44,370 --> 00:11:47,073
We might wipe ourselves out of the planet,
231
00:11:47,073 --> 00:11:48,741
with atomic bombs,
232
00:11:48,741 --> 00:11:51,944
and that probably wouldn't end life on the planet.
233
00:11:52,344 --> 00:11:56,048
So, in fact, from that point of view you can reverse
234
00:11:56,048 --> 00:11:58,684
the tree and put the bacteria on top.
235
00:11:58,684 --> 00:11:59,852
They are the best.
236
00:11:59,852 --> 00:12:02,521
We are very so/so
237
00:12:03,456 --> 00:12:06,926
because in fact we have made our environment so fragile.
238
00:12:07,626 --> 00:12:09,695
So, the result --
239
00:12:09,695 --> 00:12:12,231
I mean these serious discussion with scientists,
240
00:12:13,099 --> 00:12:17,069
then it became clear, this kind
241
00:12:17,069 --> 00:12:21,040
of discussion with scientists is mutual benefit.
242
00:12:22,174 --> 00:12:24,143
And then after it was over,
243
00:12:24,143 --> 00:12:25,311
I looked at His Holiness again
244
00:12:25,311 --> 00:12:26,512
and I said, "well you want to do it again?"
245
00:12:26,512 --> 00:12:27,480
And he said, "yes."
246
00:12:31,684 --> 00:12:34,253
On the day of the second meeting,
247
00:12:34,253 --> 00:12:36,922
we got a call from Oslo, Norway.
248
00:12:36,922 --> 00:12:40,392
The Dalai Lama had just won the Nobel Peace Prize.
249
00:12:52,338 --> 00:12:55,341
...and I will call on you as you raise your hand.
250
00:12:55,341 --> 00:12:56,609
We're open for questions.
251
00:12:56,609 --> 00:12:58,778
Why do you think you were chosen for this prize?
252
00:12:58,778 --> 00:12:59,912
And don't be humble.
253
00:13:02,214 --> 00:13:03,883
I think as I mentioned earlier
254
00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:06,919
I think last thirty years,
255
00:13:08,187 --> 00:13:09,188
become refugee,
256
00:13:10,189 --> 00:13:10,890
you see,
257
00:13:10,890 --> 00:13:12,224
desperate situation.
258
00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:16,128
Yet, I follow
259
00:13:17,663 --> 00:13:20,800
strictly, with my own, how do you say,
260
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,101
according to my own principle --
261
00:13:23,202 --> 00:13:24,203
non-violence.
262
00:13:26,472 --> 00:13:28,507
I think that is the main reason.
263
00:13:28,607 --> 00:13:29,608
Later on,
264
00:13:29,608 --> 00:13:31,544
I learned that some of his advisors
265
00:13:31,544 --> 00:13:33,112
had said, "you have to cancel
266
00:13:33,112 --> 00:13:34,480
this science conference,
267
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,715
because this is a great opportunity."
268
00:13:36,715 --> 00:13:38,450
But, he refused to do so.
269
00:13:39,385 --> 00:13:41,687
His commitment was to the scientists.
270
00:13:42,188 --> 00:13:43,189
Here he was,
271
00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:45,558
he'd just won the Nobel Prize,
272
00:13:45,558 --> 00:13:47,593
and he was still perfectly present,
273
00:13:47,593 --> 00:13:48,561
calm,
274
00:13:48,561 --> 00:13:49,562
steady,
275
00:13:49,562 --> 00:13:50,563
impressive.
276
00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:57,670
The vast majority of scientists were skeptical.
277
00:13:58,037 --> 00:14:00,039
Now when I first sat down with the Dalai Lama,
278
00:14:00,039 --> 00:14:02,208
it was actually quite surprising.
279
00:14:02,208 --> 00:14:05,744
See, I had the stereotyped vision
280
00:14:05,744 --> 00:14:09,048
of an Asian spiritual master
281
00:14:09,048 --> 00:14:11,817
as kind of floating on a cloud.
282
00:14:11,817 --> 00:14:14,453
They're going to be transcendent.
283
00:14:14,453 --> 00:14:16,288
Eyes half closed,
284
00:14:16,288 --> 00:14:19,525
occasionally saying perhaps inscrutable things,
285
00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:23,095
but, here I'm sitting down across from him,
286
00:14:23,095 --> 00:14:26,265
I had this feeling I was across from a wrestler,
287
00:14:26,265 --> 00:14:28,100
intellectually.
288
00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:30,669
He was taking my ideas and he was grabbing them,
289
00:14:30,669 --> 00:14:32,905
and testing them.
290
00:14:33,572 --> 00:14:35,741
Now, I would like to show
291
00:14:35,741 --> 00:14:38,277
experimental evidence for the atom.
292
00:14:39,211 --> 00:14:42,281
Are there techniques, like a microscope,
293
00:14:42,281 --> 00:14:44,116
or some technique which will allow
294
00:14:44,116 --> 00:14:46,619
us to see even a single atom.
295
00:14:47,753 --> 00:14:50,089
Now, until very recently this was impossible.
296
00:14:50,089 --> 00:14:53,926
But, within the last ten to fifteen years we now have
297
00:14:53,926 --> 00:14:55,728
very interesting evidence.
298
00:14:56,195 --> 00:14:58,764
There's a laser which comes in
299
00:14:58,764 --> 00:15:02,134
shines on the atom, illuminates the atom.
300
00:15:03,102 --> 00:15:05,004
And then the light is given off.
301
00:15:05,571 --> 00:15:06,872
And we can see it.
302
00:15:07,072 --> 00:15:10,776
You see a tiny, tiny pinpoint of light
303
00:15:10,776 --> 00:15:12,645
from this single atom.
304
00:15:13,646 --> 00:15:14,647
So this looks --
305
00:15:15,881 --> 00:15:17,349
It is through the telescope?
306
00:15:17,349 --> 00:15:18,284
Or through a microscope?
307
00:15:18,284 --> 00:15:19,985
No, it's with the naked eye.
308
00:15:19,985 --> 00:15:21,353
Naked eye.
309
00:15:26,025 --> 00:15:27,026
It's so bright --
310
00:15:27,026 --> 00:15:27,993
it's so bright.
311
00:15:28,861 --> 00:15:29,862
Yeah, it's very small
312
00:15:29,862 --> 00:15:31,797
but extremely bright.
313
00:15:31,797 --> 00:15:32,765
Does it move?
314
00:15:32,765 --> 00:15:35,701
No, it's localized in a very small region
315
00:15:35,701 --> 00:15:37,369
a very, very small region.
316
00:15:37,369 --> 00:15:38,337
It's an ion trap.
317
00:15:41,974 --> 00:15:43,442
He would ask something
318
00:15:43,442 --> 00:15:44,843
and throw something back at me
319
00:15:44,843 --> 00:15:45,811
and back and forth.
320
00:15:46,178 --> 00:15:48,414
He's like this, he's got his arms
321
00:15:48,414 --> 00:15:49,815
a little bit outside,
322
00:15:50,149 --> 00:15:51,150
and he's going,
323
00:15:51,150 --> 00:15:52,551
"Hum. Hum."
324
00:15:53,719 --> 00:15:54,720
Hum.
325
00:16:02,695 --> 00:16:05,230
Isn't it the case that the atoms are always
326
00:16:05,230 --> 00:16:08,200
in a constant dynamic flux?
327
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,235
You can ask, "Is it possible
328
00:16:10,235 --> 00:16:13,505
when one comes to an absolute zero temperature,
329
00:16:13,505 --> 00:16:15,741
and you can go no further,
330
00:16:15,741 --> 00:16:20,145
are the atoms completely still?
331
00:16:20,145 --> 00:16:22,247
Classically, the answer would be yes,
332
00:16:22,948 --> 00:16:24,149
in classical physics.
333
00:16:24,149 --> 00:16:27,519
In quantum mechanics, it turns out the answer is no.
334
00:16:29,121 --> 00:16:32,658
Because, quantum mechanically the atoms
335
00:16:32,658 --> 00:16:35,327
must always have a small motion.
336
00:16:36,462 --> 00:16:37,463
This is --
337
00:16:38,464 --> 00:16:39,465
Yeah.
338
00:16:39,465 --> 00:16:41,066
This is an experimental fact now.
339
00:16:41,066 --> 00:16:43,969
You can watch the motion decrease
340
00:16:43,969 --> 00:16:46,672
until you reach a threshold
341
00:16:46,672 --> 00:16:48,774
and then it flattens out
342
00:16:48,774 --> 00:16:50,709
and the motion continues at that level
343
00:16:50,709 --> 00:16:52,444
no matter how cold you go.
344
00:17:14,333 --> 00:17:15,667
Um, in terms of the Big Bang,
345
00:17:15,667 --> 00:17:17,870
doesn't there need to be something
346
00:17:17,870 --> 00:17:19,605
to kind of ignite the Big Bang?
347
00:17:19,605 --> 00:17:20,839
If it really is a bang of sorts,
348
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:22,508
then there needs to be something
349
00:17:22,508 --> 00:17:24,143
that ignites that Big Bang.
350
00:17:24,143 --> 00:17:28,781
But, if prior to the Big Bang there is,
351
00:17:28,781 --> 00:17:31,517
it is absolutely cold, then how
352
00:17:31,517 --> 00:17:32,818
could there be any ignition?
353
00:17:32,818 --> 00:17:34,186
How could it be anything to catalyse?
354
00:17:34,186 --> 00:17:36,155
I expected somebody who was kind of disconnected
355
00:17:36,155 --> 00:17:37,656
from reality
356
00:17:37,656 --> 00:17:40,993
and in a spiritual fog.
357
00:17:40,993 --> 00:17:44,530
What I found was a person completely present.
358
00:17:44,530 --> 00:17:45,497
Surprising.
359
00:17:50,702 --> 00:17:53,172
Since over thirty years,
360
00:17:54,540 --> 00:17:58,944
we develop serious discussion
361
00:17:58,944 --> 00:18:01,814
with many scientists,
362
00:18:02,214 --> 00:18:04,116
mainly from America.
363
00:18:04,116 --> 00:18:05,117
Five fields -
364
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:06,351
cosmology,
365
00:18:06,752 --> 00:18:07,753
quantum physics,
366
00:18:08,387 --> 00:18:09,388
psychology,
367
00:18:10,089 --> 00:18:11,090
neuroscience,
368
00:18:11,490 --> 00:18:12,491
then biology.
369
00:18:13,125 --> 00:18:16,428
The dialogues focused in detail on cosmology.
370
00:18:17,396 --> 00:18:18,397
George Greenstein
371
00:18:18,397 --> 00:18:20,065
who is a colleague of mine at Amherst College.
372
00:18:20,632 --> 00:18:23,769
When thinking about the origin of the universe,
373
00:18:23,769 --> 00:18:25,571
we have a lot of facts that we know,
374
00:18:25,571 --> 00:18:28,140
but they lead us to a gigantic question --
375
00:18:28,140 --> 00:18:32,678
we do not know how to deal with all matter
376
00:18:32,678 --> 00:18:35,114
occupying exactly the same space.
377
00:18:35,647 --> 00:18:38,417
And, we also do not know how to deal
378
00:18:38,417 --> 00:18:40,953
with all matter having infinite energy.
379
00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:43,555
Was the big bang creation,
380
00:18:43,555 --> 00:18:48,460
or was it simply a stage in the evolution of the universe?
381
00:18:48,460 --> 00:18:51,230
Did the universe exist prior to the Big Bang
382
00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:52,498
and pass through this state
383
00:18:52,498 --> 00:18:54,666
and then come into the current state,
384
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,137
or was the universe created at that instant?
385
00:18:58,137 --> 00:19:00,405
So, what do you mean by creation here?
386
00:19:00,405 --> 00:19:03,242
I mean, prior to the Big Bang there was nothing.
387
00:19:03,242 --> 00:19:05,377
After the Big Bang, there was a lot.
388
00:19:07,546 --> 00:19:08,881
So, would you say something
389
00:19:08,881 --> 00:19:10,582
that has caused the event is a creation?
390
00:19:11,817 --> 00:19:12,818
If you say that
391
00:19:12,818 --> 00:19:15,287
the universe is, comes from a cause
392
00:19:15,287 --> 00:19:16,989
would that be considered a creation?
393
00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:19,124
I want to ask you that question.
394
00:19:22,761 --> 00:19:23,762
A third possibility --
395
00:19:24,730 --> 00:19:27,499
the universe existed, contracted to a bounce,
396
00:19:27,499 --> 00:19:31,904
expanded, stopped, contracted to another bounce,
397
00:19:32,538 --> 00:19:34,139
and this way endlessly.
398
00:19:34,439 --> 00:19:36,708
An endless series of cycles.
399
00:19:41,647 --> 00:19:42,648
Beginning-less.
400
00:19:43,315 --> 00:19:45,517
So to relate this story
401
00:19:45,517 --> 00:19:47,686
in that you told us the different options
402
00:19:47,686 --> 00:19:49,688
that speculations that physicists have
403
00:19:49,688 --> 00:19:53,325
come up with, the Buddhist position
404
00:19:53,325 --> 00:19:55,527
seems to be much closer to the third option
405
00:19:55,527 --> 00:19:58,096
where there is this constant expansion
406
00:19:58,096 --> 00:20:00,532
and shrinking and then coming into being again.
407
00:20:00,532 --> 00:20:02,935
This repeated dissolution
408
00:20:02,935 --> 00:20:04,803
and the origination of the universe.
409
00:20:04,803 --> 00:20:06,605
One thing that we need to bear in mind
410
00:20:06,605 --> 00:20:11,476
is that this idea in a repeated kind of dissolution
411
00:20:11,476 --> 00:20:13,278
and origination of the universe
412
00:20:13,278 --> 00:20:15,781
does not necessarily suggest that
413
00:20:15,781 --> 00:20:18,183
the same kind of universe will come
414
00:20:18,183 --> 00:20:20,385
into existence over and over again.
415
00:20:21,386 --> 00:20:27,092
And also same sort of elements as well.
416
00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:31,296
So, you can envision
417
00:20:31,296 --> 00:20:34,233
a new universe with whole sets
418
00:20:34,233 --> 00:20:36,101
of new properties and elements
419
00:20:36,101 --> 00:20:38,370
that may not be the same
420
00:20:38,370 --> 00:20:40,372
as the one that existed before.
421
00:20:40,372 --> 00:20:42,574
And here of course from the Buddhist
422
00:20:42,574 --> 00:20:44,009
point of view, karma has a role to play.
423
00:20:44,009 --> 00:20:45,377
point of view, karma has a role to play.
424
00:20:45,377 --> 00:20:47,246
One thing I would like to mention, however,
425
00:20:47,246 --> 00:20:50,082
is that the idea of our planet
426
00:20:50,082 --> 00:20:51,650
being the center of the universe,
427
00:20:51,650 --> 00:20:54,386
this anthropocentric, was never in the picture.
428
00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:56,955
From the Sutras,
429
00:20:56,955 --> 00:20:58,423
they speak from the beginning
430
00:20:58,423 --> 00:20:59,992
of billionfold universe.
431
00:20:59,992 --> 00:21:02,127
Ours is a small unit.
432
00:21:02,127 --> 00:21:04,796
A thousand of those being a secondary unit.
433
00:21:04,796 --> 00:21:06,465
A thousand of those secondary units
434
00:21:06,465 --> 00:21:08,066
being a tertiary unit,
435
00:21:08,066 --> 00:21:09,401
that means a billionfold universe.
436
00:21:09,401 --> 00:21:11,236
They speak of universe
437
00:21:11,570 --> 00:21:14,339
being like curtains of lights.
438
00:21:14,339 --> 00:21:16,842
Like horses spouting fires.
439
00:21:16,842 --> 00:21:18,076
Wheels of light.
440
00:21:18,076 --> 00:21:19,444
All these beautiful images
441
00:21:19,444 --> 00:21:20,579
that you seem to be already
442
00:21:20,579 --> 00:21:22,214
looking the Hubble Telescope.
443
00:21:23,248 --> 00:21:25,050
But still, the idea that there was
444
00:21:25,050 --> 00:21:28,754
almost infinite possibilities, universes.
445
00:21:28,754 --> 00:21:30,856
And I know for beginning-less also
446
00:21:30,856 --> 00:21:32,190
there is another thing --
447
00:21:32,190 --> 00:21:33,625
there must have been life.
448
00:21:33,625 --> 00:21:34,793
There must have been consciousness
449
00:21:34,793 --> 00:21:36,495
in all those billion universe.
450
00:21:36,495 --> 00:21:37,929
So, in a way, our Big Bang
451
00:21:37,929 --> 00:21:39,998
is a very, very small part of history
452
00:21:39,998 --> 00:21:41,133
from that perspective.
453
00:21:46,605 --> 00:21:47,606
His Holiness says that,
454
00:21:47,606 --> 00:21:50,008
he has a hundred percent support
455
00:21:50,008 --> 00:21:52,044
for Matthieu when he contrasts
456
00:21:52,044 --> 00:21:53,812
the problems, the concept,
457
00:21:53,812 --> 00:21:56,682
the imagination problem versus the logical problem,
458
00:21:56,682 --> 00:21:58,317
with respect to beginning
459
00:21:58,317 --> 00:22:00,185
and beginning-lessness.
460
00:22:00,185 --> 00:22:01,520
So, the idea that
461
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:02,487
we can imagine...
462
00:22:02,487 --> 00:22:04,589
it's easier for imagination when we say
463
00:22:04,589 --> 00:22:05,557
that there is a beginning.
464
00:22:05,557 --> 00:22:07,726
But, logically, we have more problem,
465
00:22:07,726 --> 00:22:10,762
but it's harder to imagine when you say,
466
00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:11,997
"it's beginning-less",
467
00:22:11,997 --> 00:22:13,999
but logically that seems to be
468
00:22:13,999 --> 00:22:15,801
more in tune with the reason.
469
00:22:16,101 --> 00:22:17,102
The knowledge
470
00:22:17,102 --> 00:22:19,604
about cosmology, Big Bang,
471
00:22:19,604 --> 00:22:20,572
these things,
472
00:22:21,173 --> 00:22:22,441
in principal,
473
00:22:22,441 --> 00:22:25,477
Buddhist sort of cosmology explanation,
474
00:22:26,645 --> 00:22:27,646
quite similar.
475
00:22:51,670 --> 00:22:56,408
The dialogues also focused on Quantum Physics.
476
00:22:59,277 --> 00:23:01,113
What you see here is a little laser,
477
00:23:01,113 --> 00:23:03,415
which emits light.
478
00:23:03,415 --> 00:23:06,218
These particles go in one after the other,
479
00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:08,320
one after the other, okay?
480
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,489
There's a contradiction here.
481
00:23:10,489 --> 00:23:14,192
On the one hand we have individual particles,
482
00:23:14,192 --> 00:23:18,463
which can go through one slit only at a time.
483
00:23:18,463 --> 00:23:23,468
On the other hand, we have the stripes which indicate
484
00:23:23,468 --> 00:23:26,471
that there are waves which go through both slits.
485
00:23:27,472 --> 00:23:29,775
How can something go through one slit
486
00:23:29,775 --> 00:23:31,943
and through both slits at the same time?
487
00:23:31,943 --> 00:23:33,712
This is now a very important point,
488
00:23:33,712 --> 00:23:35,714
which is new in modern physics,
489
00:23:36,314 --> 00:23:37,349
is that the
490
00:23:37,349 --> 00:23:41,219
observer/experimentalist decides which
491
00:23:41,219 --> 00:23:48,059
of the two features, particle or wave, is reality.
492
00:23:48,660 --> 00:23:53,031
So, the observer has a very strong influence on nature.
493
00:23:53,031 --> 00:23:56,535
There is no reason why in this run of the experiment
494
00:23:56,535 --> 00:23:58,336
you get this result.
495
00:23:58,336 --> 00:24:01,072
And this is really the first time in physics
496
00:24:01,072 --> 00:24:02,674
that you see something like that --
497
00:24:02,674 --> 00:24:04,376
that we see events
498
00:24:04,376 --> 00:24:08,046
for which we cannot build a chain of reasoning.
499
00:24:08,046 --> 00:24:11,149
Some people even say that what we observe
500
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:14,119
in the individual quantum event
501
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,155
is a spontaneous act of creation.
502
00:24:18,657 --> 00:24:23,929
So, with this I think I have finished my exposition
503
00:24:23,962 --> 00:24:26,865
of the quantum physics of individual particles.
504
00:24:26,865 --> 00:24:28,633
And as the next one,
505
00:24:28,633 --> 00:24:31,336
I would like to go through the quantum physics
506
00:24:31,336 --> 00:24:34,005
of two or more particles,
507
00:24:34,005 --> 00:24:37,742
which also has its own
508
00:24:37,742 --> 00:24:40,111
deep, deep, uh, mysteries for us.
509
00:24:40,111 --> 00:24:42,714
The notion which we use to describe
510
00:24:42,714 --> 00:24:45,650
connectedness of two particles,
511
00:24:46,351 --> 00:24:48,153
the name is entanglement.
512
00:24:48,153 --> 00:24:50,021
So, the idea is that these two particles
513
00:24:50,021 --> 00:24:52,991
even if they are separated over very large distances,
514
00:24:52,991 --> 00:24:55,861
they always remain one system;
515
00:24:55,861 --> 00:24:58,096
they are not really separated.
516
00:25:06,671 --> 00:25:07,672
So, when you're talking about --
517
00:25:09,941 --> 00:25:13,144
dependency here, the fact that what happens
518
00:25:13,144 --> 00:25:15,614
here on one side seems to be dependent
519
00:25:15,614 --> 00:25:17,949
on what happens on the other side,
520
00:25:17,949 --> 00:25:21,353
we're not talking in terms of causal dependence, are we?
521
00:25:23,388 --> 00:25:25,090
That is a very deep question.
522
00:25:26,391 --> 00:25:27,392
A little illustration --
523
00:25:27,392 --> 00:25:30,795
suppose you have two dice and then at some time
524
00:25:30,795 --> 00:25:33,698
you throw a die and your friend throws a die.
525
00:25:33,698 --> 00:25:37,702
And it turns out that even as both of them
526
00:25:37,702 --> 00:25:40,505
are completely random they always keep the same number.
527
00:25:40,505 --> 00:25:41,473
How can that be?
528
00:25:42,374 --> 00:25:44,543
So the idea is that these two particles,
529
00:25:44,543 --> 00:25:47,212
even if they're separated over a very large distance,
530
00:25:48,246 --> 00:25:52,017
they're always, they always remain one system.
531
00:25:52,651 --> 00:25:55,253
They're not really separated in a deep sense.
532
00:25:58,390 --> 00:26:00,325
I'm sorry, are you implying that
533
00:26:00,325 --> 00:26:02,394
the entire universe is internally entangled?
534
00:26:02,394 --> 00:26:04,362
Well that is a nice idea,
535
00:26:04,362 --> 00:26:07,599
but I would not want to take a position on that
536
00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:09,134
because as an experimentalist
537
00:26:09,134 --> 00:26:10,602
I would not know how to prove that.
538
00:26:22,314 --> 00:26:23,448
His Holiness was saying,
539
00:26:23,448 --> 00:26:24,983
probably someone who can prove it
540
00:26:24,983 --> 00:26:27,652
will have to be able to live very long
541
00:26:27,652 --> 00:26:28,853
to see the whole thing.
542
00:26:31,856 --> 00:26:33,758
Exactly. They would need a lot of money.
543
00:26:36,828 --> 00:26:38,630
They continued to meet.
544
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:41,099
You might ask whether everything is the same
545
00:26:41,099 --> 00:26:43,602
or whether something has changed in quantum physics,
546
00:26:44,769 --> 00:26:48,773
and there are actually two important changes.
547
00:26:48,773 --> 00:26:53,411
One change concerns a technical thing happening.
548
00:26:53,411 --> 00:26:56,047
And I know that Your Holiness,
549
00:26:56,047 --> 00:26:57,849
you love technology,
550
00:26:57,849 --> 00:27:01,486
so, I will mention that,
551
00:27:01,486 --> 00:27:04,789
that is the fact that based on these
552
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:08,827
fundamental questions which we discussed already,
553
00:27:08,827 --> 00:27:12,397
people are developing a new technology
554
00:27:12,397 --> 00:27:16,968
for information and that is really a big surprise.
555
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:22,173
Now, this is a picture which tries
556
00:27:22,173 --> 00:27:25,744
to indicate the entanglement of many qubits.
557
00:27:25,744 --> 00:27:28,680
Each blue point is supposed to be a qubit
558
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,082
and you have many connections here.
559
00:27:31,082 --> 00:27:34,552
Now, if I measure one qubit
560
00:27:34,552 --> 00:27:38,056
then it changes the whole state.
561
00:27:38,056 --> 00:27:40,492
It does not only change the one I look at,
562
00:27:40,492 --> 00:27:42,761
it changes all the other ones.
563
00:27:42,761 --> 00:27:45,230
When I measure another one,
564
00:27:45,230 --> 00:27:48,933
another qubit, and that changes the rest.
565
00:27:48,933 --> 00:27:50,468
And I keep going
566
00:27:50,468 --> 00:27:53,672
and if I keep going the right way,
567
00:27:53,672 --> 00:27:57,375
in the end I have the solution I want.
568
00:27:57,375 --> 00:28:00,278
This is a completely new way of thinking
569
00:28:00,278 --> 00:28:04,215
about computation, it is different from any computation
570
00:28:04,215 --> 00:28:06,451
people have been talking about.
571
00:28:07,052 --> 00:28:10,488
So, in a sense it's a first technical application of wholeness.
572
00:28:11,122 --> 00:28:13,591
I think this sort of subject is very important.
573
00:28:16,161 --> 00:28:18,697
In any case is it those subjects which often,
574
00:28:18,697 --> 00:28:20,665
you see, create more confusion
575
00:28:20,665 --> 00:28:24,002
that itself is showing it's more complicated.
576
00:28:24,669 --> 00:28:29,074
So really worthwhile, a further discussion.
577
00:28:29,074 --> 00:28:32,043
And I think a discussion between
578
00:28:33,211 --> 00:28:36,481
scientists or specialists in this
579
00:28:36,481 --> 00:28:39,384
particular field and Buddhist,
580
00:28:40,485 --> 00:28:42,353
I prefer young scholars.
581
00:28:43,521 --> 00:28:44,522
They are your team.
582
00:28:45,490 --> 00:28:47,826
Yes. My team, my team, yes.
583
00:28:50,595 --> 00:28:52,130
Now the second point which happened,
584
00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:55,533
which was actually in part encouraged
585
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,037
if not inspired by our earlier discussion,
586
00:28:59,738 --> 00:29:04,275
is some new ideas which we are developing
587
00:29:04,409 --> 00:29:08,079
on the conceptual foundations of quantum mechanics.
588
00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:12,283
We are simply asking, maybe knowing,
589
00:29:12,283 --> 00:29:16,254
maybe knowledge is as fundamental,
590
00:29:16,254 --> 00:29:21,192
or maybe even more fundamental than reality.
591
00:29:21,192 --> 00:29:26,264
We can very well handle these kind of paradoxical situations,
592
00:29:26,264 --> 00:29:29,000
we have been talking about, mathematically,
593
00:29:29,934 --> 00:29:32,804
and we can confirm them in experiments
594
00:29:32,804 --> 00:29:33,772
with very high precision.
595
00:29:34,639 --> 00:29:40,111
But, we still do not know conceptually what is going on.
596
00:29:40,111 --> 00:29:42,280
Why is the world so strange?
597
00:29:42,781 --> 00:29:46,718
And, what I want to see some day
598
00:29:46,718 --> 00:29:49,354
before I pass away that someone explains
599
00:29:49,354 --> 00:29:51,055
to me why it is so strange.
600
00:29:51,823 --> 00:29:54,425
So, I want to, so I want to learn
601
00:29:54,425 --> 00:29:57,395
new concepts and this is a place,
602
00:29:57,395 --> 00:29:59,831
and there were some new concepts brought out
603
00:29:59,831 --> 00:30:02,534
in your discussion which are very interesting
604
00:30:02,534 --> 00:30:05,236
for me, and where I have to think more
605
00:30:05,236 --> 00:30:07,372
and where I hope I learn something
606
00:30:07,372 --> 00:30:12,477
which might even be relevant in helping to understand
607
00:30:12,477 --> 00:30:14,546
some of these phenomena in physics.
608
00:30:17,615 --> 00:30:20,185
So here I will insist on the critique
609
00:30:20,185 --> 00:30:22,821
of the idea of intrinsic existence
610
00:30:22,821 --> 00:30:26,524
and of the idea that they have intrinsic properties.
611
00:30:27,091 --> 00:30:31,796
So to begin with, science made a momentous step
612
00:30:31,796 --> 00:30:35,767
forward as soon as it
613
00:30:35,767 --> 00:30:37,969
understood that certain explanations
614
00:30:37,969 --> 00:30:40,305
have to be given in terms of relations,
615
00:30:40,305 --> 00:30:43,842
rather than in terms of absolute properties.
616
00:30:43,842 --> 00:30:47,345
First example, the Schrodinger cat.
617
00:30:47,345 --> 00:30:50,715
You have a box, and inside the box
618
00:30:50,715 --> 00:30:53,418
the bottle contains poison.
619
00:30:53,418 --> 00:30:56,321
You have a big piece of radioactive material
620
00:30:56,321 --> 00:30:59,023
that has the probability one half
621
00:30:59,023 --> 00:31:00,992
to disintegrate.
622
00:31:00,992 --> 00:31:04,162
The state of the piece of radioactive material
623
00:31:04,162 --> 00:31:08,633
is in the superposition between being disintegrated
624
00:31:08,633 --> 00:31:10,702
and not being disintegrated.
625
00:31:10,702 --> 00:31:13,238
And according to quantum mechanics,
626
00:31:13,238 --> 00:31:16,307
the cat should be half dead and half alive.
627
00:31:16,307 --> 00:31:17,642
But this sounds absurd,
628
00:31:17,642 --> 00:31:19,444
because when you open the box
629
00:31:19,444 --> 00:31:22,614
and see in the box it is not the case,
630
00:31:22,614 --> 00:31:28,019
you see either a dead cat or a cat which is alive.
631
00:31:28,953 --> 00:31:30,788
So, there is a paradox.
632
00:31:30,788 --> 00:31:32,724
And, can I just say, maybe we should add
633
00:31:32,724 --> 00:31:35,026
that there is no cruelty involved here,
634
00:31:35,026 --> 00:31:37,729
because this is a thought experiment.
635
00:31:37,729 --> 00:31:41,866
Thank you, John. Yes this is perfectly right
636
00:31:41,866 --> 00:31:45,904
and I must say I've personally gone to Schrodingers' house.
637
00:31:45,904 --> 00:31:49,440
I've seen in his house that he had many cats
638
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,142
and so he loved cats.
639
00:31:52,477 --> 00:31:56,047
So hopefully not experimented on cats.
640
00:31:56,047 --> 00:31:58,516
Yes, fortunately it's a thought experiment.
641
00:31:58,516 --> 00:32:01,019
Experimenting on cats.
642
00:32:01,552 --> 00:32:02,553
No.
643
00:32:03,054 --> 00:32:04,055
Never!
644
00:32:10,395 --> 00:32:11,796
Perhaps you remember,
645
00:32:11,796 --> 00:32:13,831
we met six years ago at Stanford,
646
00:32:13,831 --> 00:32:18,369
and we had a discussion with a few other people
647
00:32:18,369 --> 00:32:19,737
for morning and lunch
648
00:32:19,737 --> 00:32:22,307
and that was a very important event in my life.
649
00:32:23,107 --> 00:32:27,545
And since coming here I've learned a great deal.
650
00:32:27,545 --> 00:32:31,282
I hope to start by addressing this question
651
00:32:31,282 --> 00:32:33,251
about the nature of matter
652
00:32:33,251 --> 00:32:34,686
and the nature of life.
653
00:32:36,454 --> 00:32:40,258
Now, the single most important thing we know
654
00:32:40,258 --> 00:32:41,693
is that the world is made of atoms.
655
00:32:42,860 --> 00:32:46,597
This is a picture of iron atoms put on a surface
656
00:32:46,597 --> 00:32:48,199
of a piece of metal.
657
00:32:48,199 --> 00:32:51,069
Each of these little bumps is one atom.
658
00:32:51,069 --> 00:32:54,605
You have to get it very, very cold for them to stay.
659
00:33:00,244 --> 00:33:03,014
So, maybe it's too cold to move?
660
00:33:04,782 --> 00:33:06,517
Frozen.
661
00:33:06,517 --> 00:33:11,189
Atoms are made of other particles such as electrons
662
00:33:11,189 --> 00:33:12,457
around the outside.
663
00:33:12,457 --> 00:33:14,225
This is very strange.
664
00:33:14,225 --> 00:33:17,595
Our current understanding of these particles
665
00:33:17,595 --> 00:33:19,397
is they have no size --
666
00:33:19,397 --> 00:33:22,033
infinitely small,
667
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,136
and we describe the particle
668
00:33:25,136 --> 00:33:28,172
in terms of these field lines, these fields.
669
00:33:28,473 --> 00:33:31,509
If the atom were the size of the earth,
670
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:33,611
the size of this electron
671
00:33:33,611 --> 00:33:35,713
would be smaller than one millimeter.
672
00:33:36,748 --> 00:33:39,751
So we know it must be smaller than that.
673
00:33:40,618 --> 00:33:42,754
Now, how do we know that?
674
00:33:43,421 --> 00:33:46,991
We actually take electrons
675
00:33:46,991 --> 00:33:50,194
and we throw them at another electron.
676
00:33:50,995 --> 00:33:53,898
And if the electron had size, these particles
677
00:33:53,898 --> 00:33:57,368
of electrons would bounce from them differently
678
00:33:57,368 --> 00:34:00,204
than if the electron was just a point.
679
00:34:00,638 --> 00:34:03,307
And we can mathematically predict which is which
680
00:34:03,307 --> 00:34:07,512
and what we see -- no size, just point.
681
00:34:09,414 --> 00:34:10,915
Whether there is anything,
682
00:34:10,915 --> 00:34:13,284
that is, do they provide any kind of obstruction
683
00:34:13,284 --> 00:34:14,685
to an incoming entity.
684
00:34:14,685 --> 00:34:16,888
And my impression from what you just said is yes,
685
00:34:16,888 --> 00:34:19,057
and that is you can collide two electrons
686
00:34:19,057 --> 00:34:21,526
but they collide as if they were pure points
687
00:34:21,526 --> 00:34:24,262
rather than having any type of spatial dimensionality.
688
00:34:24,262 --> 00:34:26,164
You are absolutely correct.
689
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:39,811
When we speak of simply the existence of things
690
00:34:39,811 --> 00:34:41,312
in our shared world,
691
00:34:41,312 --> 00:34:43,648
when you posit this, what is actually
692
00:34:43,648 --> 00:34:46,617
the nature of the electron itself independently
693
00:34:46,617 --> 00:34:49,754
of its own parts, that type of ontological analysis,
694
00:34:49,754 --> 00:34:50,721
you don't find it.
695
00:34:50,721 --> 00:34:52,323
So, then you are left with a couple of options,
696
00:34:52,323 --> 00:34:54,725
again you can either say, well, these elementary particles
697
00:34:54,725 --> 00:34:56,461
and so forth all these things that we identify,
698
00:34:56,461 --> 00:34:57,728
they do things.
699
00:34:57,728 --> 00:34:59,664
So to say as they're doing things and things
700
00:34:59,664 --> 00:35:02,366
are done to them that they don't exist is foolishness.
701
00:35:02,366 --> 00:35:06,003
Every property that I know of -- it depends.
702
00:35:06,003 --> 00:35:08,739
So when we say the electron
703
00:35:08,739 --> 00:35:10,274
has these intrinsic properties,
704
00:35:10,274 --> 00:35:12,510
we don't say it has an intrinsic property,
705
00:35:12,510 --> 00:35:15,079
we're not going to talk about the electron as a being.
706
00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:17,582
It also includes the interaction,
707
00:35:17,582 --> 00:35:19,183
we have to include the interaction.
708
00:35:19,183 --> 00:35:20,618
Because that's the observation.
709
00:35:20,618 --> 00:35:22,653
Because in order to even observe the electron
710
00:35:22,653 --> 00:35:23,855
we need some interaction.
711
00:35:24,755 --> 00:35:25,857
So in that respect,
712
00:35:26,424 --> 00:35:29,594
I don't think it conflicts with the Buddhist philosophy.
713
00:35:29,594 --> 00:35:32,597
All the others are a matter of the observation it has,
714
00:35:32,597 --> 00:35:34,232
which means it intimately
715
00:35:34,232 --> 00:35:36,067
is connected with the rest of the world.
716
00:35:36,601 --> 00:35:39,137
I don't see a conflict, quite frankly.
717
00:36:04,795 --> 00:36:13,304
I think it may be worthwhile to explain
718
00:36:13,304 --> 00:36:19,143
about basic structure of Buddha Dharma.
719
00:36:22,180 --> 00:36:25,149
Now, I speak in Tibetan. Translate.
720
00:36:29,687 --> 00:36:31,122
After the Buddha's enlightenment,
721
00:36:31,122 --> 00:36:33,858
the Buddha was reluctant to actually give a teaching.
722
00:36:33,858 --> 00:36:36,494
There is a beautiful passage in the scripture
723
00:36:36,494 --> 00:36:38,963
which says that, “Because I fear that
724
00:36:38,963 --> 00:36:42,967
no one will understand, I shall remain non-speaking
725
00:36:42,967 --> 00:36:44,969
and remain in the forest."
726
00:36:44,969 --> 00:36:48,673
All the teachings of the Buddha have been really presented
727
00:36:48,673 --> 00:36:50,641
from the point of view of the two truths,
728
00:36:50,641 --> 00:36:53,177
and he who does not understand the two truths
729
00:36:53,177 --> 00:36:56,414
cannot understand the essence of the Buddha's teaching.
730
00:36:56,414 --> 00:36:59,684
So what we are talking about here is the two levels of reality.
731
00:36:59,684 --> 00:37:02,386
One is the ultimate level of reality which
732
00:37:02,386 --> 00:37:04,989
is the emptiness where nothing can be found.
733
00:37:04,989 --> 00:37:08,759
But there is also another level of reality
734
00:37:08,759 --> 00:37:10,695
which is the conventional relative level
735
00:37:10,695 --> 00:37:13,998
on which causes and effects and everything functions.
736
00:37:13,998 --> 00:37:17,435
And this ability to distinguish between two levels
737
00:37:17,435 --> 00:37:18,836
of reality and two truths
738
00:37:18,836 --> 00:37:21,405
and understanding existence in terms of
739
00:37:21,405 --> 00:37:23,841
these two becomes very important.
740
00:37:23,841 --> 00:37:27,178
In other words Buddha is saying that it's not that nothing exists,
741
00:37:27,178 --> 00:37:29,413
but things don't exist in the way in which
742
00:37:29,413 --> 00:37:31,315
we tend to assume they do.
743
00:37:31,315 --> 00:37:33,718
They don't exist as they appear to us.
744
00:37:37,488 --> 00:37:41,259
This is what quantum physics have also discovered;
745
00:37:41,259 --> 00:37:44,362
as they go deeper into their understanding
746
00:37:44,362 --> 00:37:47,331
of what makes up the physical world, they don't find anything.
747
00:37:47,331 --> 00:37:50,001
So they have come to realize that there is nothing
748
00:37:50,001 --> 00:37:53,371
that supports the objective reality of the material world
749
00:37:53,371 --> 00:37:54,338
that we assume.
750
00:37:54,338 --> 00:37:56,474
In some sense what the quantum physics
751
00:37:56,474 --> 00:37:59,243
have come to is very similar to what
752
00:37:59,243 --> 00:38:01,379
Buddhism has also come to.
753
00:38:01,846 --> 00:38:06,417
And the assumption behind all of this is that if something exists,
754
00:38:06,417 --> 00:38:07,785
it should be findable.
755
00:38:07,785 --> 00:38:11,055
Once you mentally deconstruct
756
00:38:11,055 --> 00:38:14,992
what makes up what seems like an solid thing in front of you,
757
00:38:14,992 --> 00:38:19,130
you'll come to recognize that nothing stands there as the true
758
00:38:19,130 --> 00:38:22,066
referent to which you can point and say, this is it.
759
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,936
So therefore Buddha says that the form is empty.
760
00:38:25,936 --> 00:38:28,906
And then the question arises, does that mean nothing exists?
761
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,742
Then the second presentation is made
762
00:38:31,742 --> 00:38:34,111
which is that emptiness is form.
763
00:38:34,111 --> 00:38:38,316
So you cannot accord a hierarchy of existence
764
00:38:38,316 --> 00:38:43,921
to the matter and mind, both are devoid of intrinsic existence,
765
00:38:43,921 --> 00:38:48,526
but they do both exist on the basis of designation
766
00:38:48,526 --> 00:38:49,894
and causes and conditions.
767
00:38:49,894 --> 00:38:51,495
So they have dependent origination
768
00:38:51,495 --> 00:38:53,564
but they don't have intrinsic existence.
769
00:39:17,655 --> 00:39:19,490
The scientific dialogues
770
00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:22,393
covered the field of cognitive science, as well.
771
00:39:22,393 --> 00:39:25,229
Emotion which is based on ignorance,
772
00:39:25,229 --> 00:39:30,801
such as strong anger, hatred
773
00:39:30,801 --> 00:39:33,904
and also attachment.
774
00:39:33,904 --> 00:39:36,807
One of my American friends, one scientist,
775
00:39:38,309 --> 00:39:43,013
Aaron Beck, he mentioned, when we develop anger,
776
00:39:43,013 --> 00:39:47,952
the object which we feel angry at appears very negative,
777
00:39:47,952 --> 00:39:51,689
but actually, ninety percent of that negative-ness
778
00:39:51,689 --> 00:39:53,257
is mental projection.
779
00:39:55,426 --> 00:39:58,229
What we find is that when we get a negative image
780
00:39:58,229 --> 00:40:02,299
of somebody else and it stays on and on,
781
00:40:03,734 --> 00:40:07,304
we start to attack the other person.
782
00:40:07,304 --> 00:40:10,007
But actually we're attacking the image.
783
00:40:10,007 --> 00:40:13,711
By attacking this image of the person
784
00:40:13,711 --> 00:40:16,080
we're actually injuring a person
785
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,149
who may be nothing like the image.
786
00:40:18,149 --> 00:40:21,018
So the more we have the negative image
787
00:40:21,018 --> 00:40:21,986
of the person,
788
00:40:21,986 --> 00:40:23,988
the more we're going to attack him.
789
00:40:23,988 --> 00:40:26,891
But it's always the image that we're having
790
00:40:26,891 --> 00:40:28,459
that is bothering us,
791
00:40:28,459 --> 00:40:29,860
not the real person.
792
00:40:29,860 --> 00:40:32,363
So we talked about delusion before,
793
00:40:32,363 --> 00:40:35,933
in a way a lot of hatred is based on a delusion.
794
00:40:35,933 --> 00:40:40,871
But it's also between countries, nations, ethnic groups.
795
00:40:40,871 --> 00:40:43,207
They tend to have kind of an image,
796
00:40:43,207 --> 00:40:46,076
a mental image of the other people
797
00:40:46,076 --> 00:40:47,711
as some way subhuman.
798
00:40:48,078 --> 00:40:51,415
Let's say when the Germans would have pictures
799
00:40:51,415 --> 00:40:54,185
of the Russians during World War Two
800
00:40:54,185 --> 00:40:58,856
they'd show the Russians as looking like beasts,
801
00:40:58,856 --> 00:40:59,824
wild beasts.
802
00:41:00,057 --> 00:41:02,993
Then of course the people found it's okay
803
00:41:02,993 --> 00:41:04,662
to shoot wild beasts
804
00:41:04,662 --> 00:41:07,064
because they're not human beings anymore.
805
00:41:07,064 --> 00:41:10,267
So I think a similar Buddhist concept,
806
00:41:10,267 --> 00:41:12,770
all these negative emotions
807
00:41:12,770 --> 00:41:16,340
are based on ignorance or misconception.
808
00:41:16,340 --> 00:41:19,043
Your Holiness if we just depart for one moment,
809
00:41:19,043 --> 00:41:22,480
you mentioned about the broad perspective before,
810
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,682
and I think much of the unhappiness
811
00:41:24,682 --> 00:41:25,850
that individuals have
812
00:41:25,850 --> 00:41:28,185
is because they lose perspective.
813
00:41:28,185 --> 00:41:31,155
And I thought I'd give you an example.
814
00:41:31,155 --> 00:41:33,224
There was some time ago
815
00:41:33,224 --> 00:41:38,329
I was asked to consult about a professor of physics
816
00:41:38,329 --> 00:41:42,666
and he thought that he had made a very great discovery
817
00:41:42,666 --> 00:41:46,003
which might give him the Nobel Prize.
818
00:41:46,003 --> 00:41:49,640
And, um, he got passed over.
819
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,775
He did not get the Nobel Prize
820
00:41:51,775 --> 00:41:54,078
and so he was depressed.
821
00:41:54,078 --> 00:41:55,079
And so I said,
822
00:41:55,079 --> 00:41:59,483
"Well, how important a part of your life was this prize?"
823
00:41:59,483 --> 00:42:02,086
And he said, "A hundred percent."
824
00:42:02,086 --> 00:42:03,621
So I asked him, I said,
825
00:42:03,621 --> 00:42:05,556
"Do you have a family?”
826
00:42:05,556 --> 00:42:06,857
And he said, "Oh yes.
827
00:42:06,857 --> 00:42:09,894
And I said, "Well, how important is your family to you?"
828
00:42:09,894 --> 00:42:14,098
So he said, "My wife -- twenty percent."
829
00:42:14,098 --> 00:42:16,267
And I said, "Do you have children?"
830
00:42:16,267 --> 00:42:18,636
And he said, "Yes, I have three children."
831
00:42:18,636 --> 00:42:21,739
And I said, "How important are they to you?"
832
00:42:21,739 --> 00:42:26,343
And he said, "Oh, I guess they're about forty percent."
833
00:42:26,343 --> 00:42:29,713
And then I said, "Do you get to see your children very much?"
834
00:42:29,713 --> 00:42:34,151
He said, "Well no. I've had so much time working
835
00:42:34,151 --> 00:42:36,587
on my physics project that I really
836
00:42:36,587 --> 00:42:38,355
haven't spent much time with them."
837
00:42:38,355 --> 00:42:40,991
And I said, "How do you feel about that?"
838
00:42:41,659 --> 00:42:44,295
And then he started to weep
839
00:42:44,295 --> 00:42:47,131
and I said, "Why are you weeping?"
840
00:42:47,131 --> 00:42:50,000
He said, "It reminded me when I was growing up,
841
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,771
that's just the way my father was to me.
842
00:42:54,238 --> 00:42:57,441
And so now I suddenly realized
843
00:42:57,441 --> 00:42:59,076
what I am missing out on,
844
00:42:59,076 --> 00:43:01,512
my father missed out on it, and I'm missing out on it
845
00:43:01,512 --> 00:43:03,647
and of course my children are missing out."
846
00:43:03,647 --> 00:43:04,648
So, I said,
847
00:43:04,648 --> 00:43:06,817
"Now how important are your children to you now?"
848
00:43:06,817 --> 00:43:08,719
And he said, "eighty percent."
849
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,655
Anyhow, he left the office
850
00:43:11,655 --> 00:43:13,624
and he wasn't depressed any more.
851
00:43:20,898 --> 00:43:22,933
Oh, very wise. Wise.
852
00:43:22,933 --> 00:43:24,969
I think that method, that method,
853
00:43:24,969 --> 00:43:29,573
that we call exactly analytical meditation.
854
00:43:29,573 --> 00:43:30,541
Oh, really?
855
00:43:30,541 --> 00:43:31,542
Yes.
856
00:43:35,379 --> 00:43:38,582
Sometimes, I express that compared
857
00:43:38,582 --> 00:43:40,317
to ancient Indian psychology,
858
00:43:40,317 --> 00:43:42,519
particularly Buddhist psychology,
859
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:46,357
modern psychology looks like the kindergarten level.
860
00:43:49,727 --> 00:43:51,929
Well, I'm a secularist.
861
00:43:51,929 --> 00:43:55,265
The only reason I met the Dalai Lama
862
00:43:55,265 --> 00:43:57,368
was because of my daughter.
863
00:43:57,368 --> 00:43:59,336
And I knew that if you got invited
864
00:43:59,336 --> 00:44:02,172
to his palace in Dharamsala
865
00:44:02,172 --> 00:44:04,775
you got to bring a single observer.
866
00:44:04,775 --> 00:44:07,444
And I thought what a kick this would be for my daughter.
867
00:44:07,444 --> 00:44:09,413
And so although I thought this was just another
868
00:44:09,413 --> 00:44:12,683
one of the Bay Area fads, I figured, okay,
869
00:44:12,683 --> 00:44:14,752
I'll make an exception. I'll go.
870
00:44:15,619 --> 00:44:17,588
We start with Paul Ekman,
871
00:44:17,588 --> 00:44:19,623
Professor of Psychology and Director
872
00:44:19,623 --> 00:44:21,525
of the Laboratory for Human Interaction
873
00:44:21,525 --> 00:44:23,527
at the University of California
874
00:44:23,527 --> 00:44:25,529
medical school in San Francisco.
875
00:44:25,529 --> 00:44:28,065
But what you really should know about him
876
00:44:28,065 --> 00:44:30,501
is that he is a master of the face
877
00:44:30,501 --> 00:44:33,904
and of emotions, and of reading emotions,
878
00:44:33,904 --> 00:44:35,773
and he has more than thirty years
879
00:44:35,773 --> 00:44:37,708
of world class research.
880
00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:40,544
For inexplicable reasons,
881
00:44:40,544 --> 00:44:42,379
he and I really connected.
882
00:44:42,379 --> 00:44:44,381
I felt like I'd known him all my life.
883
00:44:45,416 --> 00:44:48,519
And that the function of emotion
884
00:44:48,519 --> 00:44:52,489
is to get us moving, active,
885
00:44:52,489 --> 00:44:55,659
very quickly, without having to think.
886
00:44:55,659 --> 00:44:58,562
But many, many, most of the things
887
00:44:58,562 --> 00:45:01,532
we become emotional about are things
888
00:45:01,532 --> 00:45:04,134
we have learned in the course of growing up.
889
00:45:04,134 --> 00:45:06,270
And the issue which I will get to later
890
00:45:06,270 --> 00:45:08,338
is can we unlearn some of them.
891
00:45:10,607 --> 00:45:14,978
So what I have been doing is trying
892
00:45:14,978 --> 00:45:20,017
to distinguish many different important states,
893
00:45:20,017 --> 00:45:24,955
the emotions, the moods, resentment, hatred.
894
00:45:24,955 --> 00:45:27,991
One of the reasons why we have
895
00:45:27,991 --> 00:45:31,528
so much difficulty once we become emotional
896
00:45:31,528 --> 00:45:36,734
is that the emotion itself enslaves us.
897
00:45:36,734 --> 00:45:41,171
There is what I would like to call a refractory period,
898
00:45:41,171 --> 00:45:43,907
that is a period in which new information
899
00:45:43,907 --> 00:45:48,579
doesn't enter or if it enters it is, interpretation is biased.
900
00:45:49,113 --> 00:45:53,283
Now a refractory period may be only a few seconds,
901
00:45:53,283 --> 00:45:55,486
or it may be much longer.
902
00:45:56,620 --> 00:46:01,458
As long as it's occurring we can't get out of the grip
903
00:46:01,458 --> 00:46:02,459
of that emotion.
904
00:46:02,826 --> 00:46:05,295
I want to say that after um,
905
00:46:06,563 --> 00:46:08,265
spending more than thirty-five
906
00:46:08,265 --> 00:46:09,967
years studying emotion,
907
00:46:09,967 --> 00:46:13,370
I am impressed about how little we still know about it.
908
00:46:15,139 --> 00:46:17,074
When we met and tried to think,
909
00:46:17,074 --> 00:46:18,675
what do we mean by destructive emotions,
910
00:46:18,675 --> 00:46:20,110
we came up with the definition:
911
00:46:20,110 --> 00:46:22,613
emotions that harm self or others.
912
00:46:22,613 --> 00:46:24,648
Your definition is
913
00:46:24,648 --> 00:46:25,349
extremely subtle.
914
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:27,151
Your definition of destructive emotions
915
00:46:27,151 --> 00:46:29,686
is what disturbs the calm of the mind.
916
00:46:29,686 --> 00:46:30,587
Yes.
917
00:46:31,155 --> 00:46:31,889
I'm Buddhist.
918
00:46:31,889 --> 00:46:34,124
My ultimate goal is Buddhahood.
919
00:46:34,124 --> 00:46:35,626
This is my business.
920
00:46:37,694 --> 00:46:40,364
How can we educate our emotions,
921
00:46:40,364 --> 00:46:44,501
by what means, without becoming Buddhists?
922
00:46:44,501 --> 00:46:45,836
Yes, that’s right.
923
00:46:55,813 --> 00:46:57,281
So therefore, there's a possibility
924
00:46:57,281 --> 00:46:59,950
here that even though the grasping
925
00:46:59,950 --> 00:47:02,986
at the intrinsic reality of self or whatever it is,
926
00:47:02,986 --> 00:47:04,588
the object, has arisen,
927
00:47:05,355 --> 00:47:08,892
one could prolong the causal sort of process
928
00:47:08,892 --> 00:47:12,162
between that instance of grasping
929
00:47:12,162 --> 00:47:14,631
and the actual arisal of the affliction.
930
00:47:29,446 --> 00:47:32,683
In terms of really a precise analysis of what takes place,
931
00:47:32,683 --> 00:47:34,785
let's say in the first instance of apprehending a flower,
932
00:47:34,785 --> 00:47:36,753
the very first instant you simply apprehend
933
00:47:36,753 --> 00:47:38,522
the flower without reification.
934
00:47:38,522 --> 00:47:40,123
You're simply apprehending the flower itself.
935
00:47:40,123 --> 00:47:41,058
In the next instant...
936
00:47:42,459 --> 00:47:44,061
And that is a valid cognition.
937
00:47:44,061 --> 00:47:45,028
But normally speaking,
938
00:47:45,028 --> 00:47:47,931
in the second instant then there's the reification
939
00:47:47,931 --> 00:47:48,632
of the flower.
940
00:47:48,632 --> 00:47:51,201
As soon as that reification of the flower takes place,
941
00:47:51,201 --> 00:47:52,469
then you're into a false cognition.
942
00:47:52,469 --> 00:47:54,004
And so His Holiness concludes here
943
00:47:54,004 --> 00:47:56,473
it is to be seen whether you can find
944
00:47:56,473 --> 00:48:00,444
the precise neural correlate of the mere apprehension
945
00:48:00,444 --> 00:48:02,813
of the flower, versus the very next instant
946
00:48:02,813 --> 00:48:05,382
of the reification of the flower.
947
00:48:09,219 --> 00:48:11,588
And so it would be very interesting
948
00:48:11,588 --> 00:48:12,990
to see whether by studying the brain,
949
00:48:12,990 --> 00:48:15,025
you will be able to discern the difference
950
00:48:15,025 --> 00:48:18,562
between a valid cognition and an invalid cognition.
951
00:48:42,252 --> 00:48:48,525
In addition, the dialogues focused on the field of neuroscience.
952
00:48:48,525 --> 00:48:51,762
Neurobiology -- oh wonderful.
953
00:48:52,462 --> 00:48:54,831
I think if we properly sort of study
954
00:48:54,831 --> 00:48:57,868
these and get some knowledge,
955
00:48:57,868 --> 00:49:01,738
I think it can serve seven billion human beings.
956
00:49:01,738 --> 00:49:04,775
The Dalai Lama invited me to come meet with him
957
00:49:04,775 --> 00:49:06,944
because he was interested in catalyzing
958
00:49:06,944 --> 00:49:10,113
serious neuroscientific research on the mind
959
00:49:10,113 --> 00:49:13,317
and brains of Tibetan practitioners
960
00:49:13,317 --> 00:49:15,319
that spent years cultivating their minds.
961
00:49:15,319 --> 00:49:18,755
And in fact on that momentous day in 1992,
962
00:49:18,755 --> 00:49:20,390
he was quite stern in a way,
963
00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:22,192
and challenged me and he said,
964
00:49:22,192 --> 00:49:26,063
"You've been using the tools of modern neuroscience
965
00:49:26,063 --> 00:49:30,934
depression and anxiety and stress and fear.
966
00:49:30,934 --> 00:49:32,869
Why can't you use those same tools
967
00:49:32,869 --> 00:49:35,238
to study kindness and compassion?"
968
00:49:35,238 --> 00:49:37,574
And for me it was a wakeup call.
969
00:49:37,574 --> 00:49:39,543
I didn't have a very good answer other than,
970
00:49:39,543 --> 00:49:40,510
that it's hard.
971
00:49:41,712 --> 00:49:43,280
Scientific collaboration
972
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,982
and research began in earnest,
973
00:49:45,415 --> 00:49:48,418
even though neuroscientist Francisco Varela
974
00:49:48,418 --> 00:49:50,020
became seriously ill.
975
00:49:50,554 --> 00:49:52,622
And a conference on neuroscience
976
00:49:52,622 --> 00:49:54,524
was organized in the year of 2000
977
00:49:54,524 --> 00:49:56,760
for the presentation of their results.
978
00:49:59,062 --> 00:50:00,697
I wanted to tell you,
979
00:50:01,598 --> 00:50:05,569
you know, Francisco got very ill in 1997
980
00:50:05,569 --> 00:50:07,871
with the cancer and then after that he had
981
00:50:07,871 --> 00:50:10,374
to make the decision to have the transplantation
982
00:50:10,374 --> 00:50:11,341
of the liver.
983
00:50:11,341 --> 00:50:13,877
He had to decide to die or to live.
984
00:50:14,211 --> 00:50:16,013
And at that time he was thinking
985
00:50:16,013 --> 00:50:18,248
that he did not want to do the transplant.
986
00:50:19,416 --> 00:50:22,419
Then he received a fax from you where you said,
987
00:50:22,419 --> 00:50:24,454
“You must do everything to get healthy
988
00:50:24,454 --> 00:50:27,791
and keep working and practicing and doing science."
989
00:50:27,791 --> 00:50:29,059
And he said,
990
00:50:29,059 --> 00:50:30,360
"this is a message to me
991
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,863
to make the right decision, to live."
992
00:50:32,863 --> 00:50:34,364
And he made the right decision.
993
00:50:34,364 --> 00:50:36,133
Thanks to you.
994
00:50:38,201 --> 00:50:40,270
Strong feeling of reunion.
995
00:50:45,742 --> 00:50:48,478
Thank you.
996
00:51:04,428 --> 00:51:08,799
One of my oldest friends. Great scientist.
997
00:51:17,574 --> 00:51:18,575
Your Holiness,
998
00:51:18,575 --> 00:51:21,545
this afternoon or now,
999
00:51:21,545 --> 00:51:25,982
what I'd like to turn to is the theme
1000
00:51:25,982 --> 00:51:28,819
of the meeting on destructive emotions,
1001
00:51:28,819 --> 00:51:31,655
and talk about some antidotes
1002
00:51:31,655 --> 00:51:35,358
to destructive emotions and how we can think about
1003
00:51:35,358 --> 00:51:40,363
those antidotes in neuroscientific terms.
1004
00:51:40,363 --> 00:51:44,501
And one question which we have pursued,
1005
00:51:44,501 --> 00:51:48,772
whether meditation will have effects
1006
00:51:48,772 --> 00:51:52,242
in a long term way on this area of the brain.
1007
00:51:52,242 --> 00:51:53,877
A more formal experiment
1008
00:51:53,877 --> 00:51:56,580
that we have recently completed
1009
00:51:58,148 --> 00:51:59,716
with Jon Kabat-Zinn,
1010
00:51:59,716 --> 00:52:02,219
who presented to Your Holiness
1011
00:52:02,219 --> 00:52:04,521
at a previous Mind and Life meeting.
1012
00:52:04,521 --> 00:52:06,423
Jon Kabat-Zinn
1013
00:52:06,823 --> 00:52:10,927
has been developing methods to
1014
00:52:10,927 --> 00:52:13,630
use mindfulness meditation
1015
00:52:13,630 --> 00:52:17,200
in a large variety of populations,
1016
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,370
including medical patients,
1017
00:52:20,370 --> 00:52:22,472
employees in the workplace;
1018
00:52:22,472 --> 00:52:25,175
he conducted the training himself.
1019
00:52:25,175 --> 00:52:27,944
We wanted to explore the extent
1020
00:52:27,944 --> 00:52:31,815
to which these factors of
1021
00:52:31,815 --> 00:52:34,217
brain activity can be changed
1022
00:52:34,217 --> 00:52:35,819
in normal lay people.
1023
00:52:35,819 --> 00:52:38,054
The logic in this experiment
1024
00:52:38,054 --> 00:52:40,857
was to see whether antidotes to stress,
1025
00:52:40,857 --> 00:52:41,925
meditation,
1026
00:52:41,925 --> 00:52:43,627
can have a beneficial effect
1027
00:52:43,627 --> 00:52:45,195
on the immune system.
1028
00:52:46,096 --> 00:52:49,699
So, at the end of the study, the participants
1029
00:52:49,699 --> 00:52:51,701
got the vaccine.
1030
00:52:51,701 --> 00:52:55,705
The finding that we are actually the most
1031
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,477
excited about because it's so unusual
1032
00:53:00,477 --> 00:53:02,746
and it has never been demonstrated before,
1033
00:53:02,746 --> 00:53:05,215
and that is when we vaccinated them
1034
00:53:05,215 --> 00:53:07,417
with the influenza vaccine,
1035
00:53:08,151 --> 00:53:10,287
we actually find that
1036
00:53:10,287 --> 00:53:12,622
the meditation group shows
1037
00:53:12,622 --> 00:53:17,060
a stronger response to the influenza vaccine
1038
00:53:17,060 --> 00:53:19,996
compared to the control group.
1039
00:53:19,996 --> 00:53:23,567
We will be repeating this study with
1040
00:53:23,567 --> 00:53:26,036
measures using MRI
1041
00:53:26,036 --> 00:53:28,939
which allow us to look deep within the brain
1042
00:53:28,972 --> 00:53:30,774
so that we can actually look at the amygdala.
1043
00:53:30,774 --> 00:53:33,243
We are energized with vigor
1044
00:53:33,243 --> 00:53:35,512
and zeal to pursue this
1045
00:53:35,512 --> 00:53:37,614
in the future and we hope to
1046
00:53:37,614 --> 00:53:40,116
continue this kind of collaboration.
1047
00:53:40,317 --> 00:53:43,620
Um, Your Holiness, like my colleagues before,
1048
00:53:43,620 --> 00:53:48,858
just a little, a little, thought before we begin.
1049
00:53:50,660 --> 00:53:52,028
It seems to me truly wondrous
1050
00:53:52,028 --> 00:53:55,065
that I am here again with you once more.
1051
00:53:57,801 --> 00:54:00,637
We have done experiments with audition,
1052
00:54:00,637 --> 00:54:01,605
with memory,
1053
00:54:01,605 --> 00:54:04,274
with conflict of attention between
1054
00:54:04,274 --> 00:54:05,809
visual and auditory.
1055
00:54:05,809 --> 00:54:07,444
The answer is always the same --
1056
00:54:07,444 --> 00:54:10,213
the transitoriness of mental factors,
1057
00:54:10,213 --> 00:54:11,915
it is like they come and they go.
1058
00:54:11,915 --> 00:54:13,383
And what we have here
1059
00:54:13,383 --> 00:54:15,619
is a correlate in this green stuff.
1060
00:54:15,619 --> 00:54:17,487
That was for me the big discovery,
1061
00:54:17,487 --> 00:54:20,457
that the brain actively undoes itself,
1062
00:54:20,457 --> 00:54:22,225
so it creates like gaps,
1063
00:54:22,225 --> 00:54:24,060
where you know the transition
1064
00:54:24,060 --> 00:54:25,829
from one moment to the next
1065
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:26,830
is actually marked.
1066
00:54:26,830 --> 00:54:28,131
So, you have recognition
1067
00:54:28,131 --> 00:54:30,800
and then action, but they are punctuated.
1068
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,235
It's like you know saying,
1069
00:54:32,235 --> 00:54:35,772
perception, comma, action.
1070
00:54:35,772 --> 00:54:38,441
You don't just put them in a flow,
1071
00:54:38,441 --> 00:54:39,276
in a continuum.
1072
00:54:39,276 --> 00:54:41,344
This is again what we were talking
1073
00:54:41,344 --> 00:54:42,345
about the other day --
1074
00:54:42,345 --> 00:54:43,580
that time lasts a
1075
00:54:43,580 --> 00:54:45,115
little bit, and in fact it lasts,
1076
00:54:45,115 --> 00:54:47,250
here you can see the first moment
1077
00:54:47,250 --> 00:54:48,551
of time of the recognition
1078
00:54:48,551 --> 00:54:50,086
is about a third of a second,
1079
00:54:50,086 --> 00:54:53,423
then another same, similar moment
1080
00:54:53,423 --> 00:54:56,626
when you do an action,
1081
00:54:56,626 --> 00:54:58,261
which is pushing the button.
1082
00:54:58,261 --> 00:55:00,030
This is systematic.
1083
00:55:00,030 --> 00:55:02,399
We've seen this in all kinds of different conditions.
1084
00:55:12,275 --> 00:55:14,511
His Holiness is interested to see whether you agree
1085
00:55:14,511 --> 00:55:16,112
that this corroborates a point of Buddhist psychology,
1086
00:55:19,849 --> 00:55:21,217
and that is in the first moment
1087
00:55:21,217 --> 00:55:22,552
it is purely visual perception
1088
00:55:22,552 --> 00:55:23,787
which is not conceptual.
1089
00:55:23,787 --> 00:55:25,155
And the second moment,
1090
00:55:25,155 --> 00:55:27,490
whatever that moment whatever the duration
1091
00:55:27,490 --> 00:55:28,825
of that moment happens to be,
1092
00:55:28,825 --> 00:55:30,960
then the conceptual mind
1093
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:32,329
apprehends, this is this.
1094
00:55:32,729 --> 00:55:33,697
Absolutely.
1095
00:55:33,697 --> 00:55:38,201
You cannot compress a moment beyond typically
1096
00:55:38,201 --> 00:55:40,704
normal conditions 150 milliseconds.
1097
00:55:40,704 --> 00:55:42,839
Even if It's something almost immediate,
1098
00:55:42,839 --> 00:55:45,108
it's about 150 milliseconds.
1099
00:55:45,108 --> 00:55:47,811
This moment of arising is another whumph.
1100
00:55:48,945 --> 00:55:51,648
So the brain works by these whumps.
1101
00:55:51,648 --> 00:55:52,849
And whatever it is,
1102
00:55:52,849 --> 00:55:55,185
whether it is visual perception of the field,
1103
00:55:55,185 --> 00:55:57,554
whether it is the close your eyes
1104
00:55:57,554 --> 00:55:58,755
and you have a mental image,
1105
00:55:58,755 --> 00:55:59,823
it is the same thing.
1106
00:55:59,823 --> 00:56:02,058
Now to really conclude, Your Holiness,
1107
00:56:02,058 --> 00:56:04,527
my point is that this was done with somebody
1108
00:56:04,527 --> 00:56:07,530
who is not really highly trained,
1109
00:56:07,530 --> 00:56:09,366
but we, know what we want to do
1110
00:56:09,366 --> 00:56:11,401
is to take highly trained people
1111
00:56:11,401 --> 00:56:13,370
like meditators who can actually
1112
00:56:13,370 --> 00:56:15,739
go into much more finer detail,
1113
00:56:15,739 --> 00:56:17,774
what was the moment of experience?
1114
00:56:17,774 --> 00:56:18,641
And for example,
1115
00:56:18,641 --> 00:56:20,276
we want to work with the monasteries
1116
00:56:20,276 --> 00:56:22,912
in Dordogne in the south of France,
1117
00:56:22,912 --> 00:56:23,880
and in May, for example,
1118
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,649
we hope to have Matthieu come to the lab
1119
00:56:26,649 --> 00:56:28,818
and do these kinds of experiments.
1120
00:56:28,818 --> 00:56:30,420
So, if we can find differences
1121
00:56:30,420 --> 00:56:32,155
even with ordinary people,
1122
00:56:32,155 --> 00:56:34,524
then with more expert people we should
1123
00:56:34,524 --> 00:56:37,260
be able to really go into much finer detail.
1124
00:56:37,260 --> 00:56:39,763
So with that thought I wanted to conclude,
1125
00:56:39,763 --> 00:56:41,631
because this is where, to me,
1126
00:56:41,631 --> 00:56:44,100
there's a true possibility of collaboration,
1127
00:56:44,100 --> 00:56:46,302
not just in principle
1128
00:56:46,302 --> 00:56:47,704
but in a very concrete sense.
1129
00:56:47,704 --> 00:56:49,773
Thank you very much, Your Holiness.
1130
00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:56,646
Francisco Varela, Richard Davidson and others
1131
00:56:56,646 --> 00:57:00,750
invited scientifically trained Matthieu Ricard,
1132
00:57:00,750 --> 00:57:02,986
who had received a PhD in Molecular Genetics
1133
00:57:02,986 --> 00:57:04,187
before he became a monk,
1134
00:57:04,187 --> 00:57:06,489
to help them craft the experimental design.
1135
00:57:06,489 --> 00:57:12,195
All this scientific sort of research work.
1136
00:57:12,195 --> 00:57:13,830
Oh wonderful.
1137
00:57:13,830 --> 00:57:15,698
Now you bring into the laboratory
1138
00:57:15,698 --> 00:57:16,966
somebody like Matthieu,
1139
00:57:16,966 --> 00:57:19,736
complete stable mind,
1140
00:57:19,736 --> 00:57:22,472
no distractions, no thoughts.
1141
00:57:22,472 --> 00:57:25,842
So when the stimulus comes, he's always ready.
1142
00:57:25,842 --> 00:57:28,711
And the results are completely different.
1143
00:57:28,711 --> 00:57:31,614
Meditators who are experienced,
1144
00:57:31,614 --> 00:57:34,017
are masters of precisely
1145
00:57:34,017 --> 00:57:37,187
being able to become aware of what happens in their minds.
1146
00:57:37,187 --> 00:57:41,357
And these first person methods are a radical
1147
00:57:41,357 --> 00:57:43,026
departure from classical science.
1148
00:57:43,026 --> 00:57:46,262
One is disembodied, impersonal.
1149
00:57:46,262 --> 00:57:49,632
The other one is fully embodied, totally situated.
1150
00:57:49,632 --> 00:57:51,901
So here we have an occasion
1151
00:57:51,901 --> 00:57:55,572
to really bring very much into the hard core
1152
00:57:55,572 --> 00:57:58,942
of research in science that idea. Why?
1153
00:57:58,942 --> 00:58:01,311
Because it is interesting for science, the question
1154
00:58:01,311 --> 00:58:03,446
of how to study consciousness.
1155
00:58:03,446 --> 00:58:05,782
Both of them can give us knowledge.
1156
00:58:05,782 --> 00:58:06,850
In both of them,
1157
00:58:06,850 --> 00:58:09,285
you can have good science.
1158
00:58:10,220 --> 00:58:14,023
They found certain sort of knowledge,
1159
00:58:14,023 --> 00:58:15,191
oh wonderful,
1160
00:58:15,191 --> 00:58:18,695
is not just speculation,
1161
00:58:18,695 --> 00:58:21,564
but they actually found through,
1162
00:58:21,564 --> 00:58:23,766
or proved through, experiment.
1163
00:58:23,766 --> 00:58:26,669
This is an image of her brain,
1164
00:58:26,669 --> 00:58:30,840
if we split the brain in half, like that.
1165
00:58:32,475 --> 00:58:36,412
Now we are going to do a demonstration for you,
1166
00:58:36,412 --> 00:58:37,580
Your Holiness.
1167
00:58:39,949 --> 00:58:43,786
So you can, you can see actually that the areas
1168
00:58:43,786 --> 00:58:47,357
are much more extensive during mental activities.
1169
00:58:47,357 --> 00:58:48,324
Yes, yes, that’s right.
1170
00:58:53,596 --> 00:58:53,630
And that has been studied with these techniques,
1171
00:58:53,630 --> 00:58:59,135
Well, actually, in dreaming the brain is very active.
1172
00:58:59,135 --> 00:59:02,539
And that has been studied with these techniques,
1173
00:59:02,539 --> 00:59:06,109
and there is activation in all of the sensory areas.
1174
00:59:06,109 --> 00:59:08,278
So actually, that's very true.
1175
00:59:16,085 --> 00:59:19,722
With the MRI we get spatial resolution,
1176
00:59:19,722 --> 00:59:21,658
so very fine spatial resolution.
1177
00:59:21,658 --> 00:59:25,261
With the EEG we get time resolution,
1178
00:59:25,261 --> 00:59:26,262
things that are very fast.
1179
00:59:26,262 --> 00:59:28,197
With this we're after chemical resolution
1180
00:59:28,197 --> 00:59:30,400
and chemical selectivity.
1181
00:59:30,833 --> 00:59:34,037
That's the real advantage of using this particular
1182
00:59:34,037 --> 00:59:35,438
imaging versus something else.
1183
00:59:35,438 --> 00:59:37,106
We can be very selective
1184
00:59:37,106 --> 00:59:38,575
about the chemistry that we look at.
1185
00:59:40,443 --> 00:59:43,379
Then the instrument itself, also wonderful,
1186
00:59:44,247 --> 00:59:45,615
very sophisticated,
1187
00:59:46,883 --> 00:59:48,184
oh wonderful.
1188
00:59:48,484 --> 00:59:49,819
Must be very expensive.
1189
00:59:53,890 --> 00:59:55,758
Unexpectedly,
1190
00:59:55,758 --> 00:59:59,062
just months before they were to meet again in person,
1191
00:59:59,062 --> 01:00:03,199
Francisco Varela's health failed him for the final time.
1192
01:00:03,199 --> 01:00:06,002
He lost his long struggle with liver cancer.
1193
01:00:07,971 --> 01:00:10,206
He became terminally ill.
1194
01:00:11,674 --> 01:00:13,710
Our last conversation,
1195
01:00:13,710 --> 01:00:15,845
not face to face,
1196
01:00:15,845 --> 01:00:18,715
but through modern technology,
1197
01:00:18,715 --> 01:00:20,216
through video,
1198
01:00:20,216 --> 01:00:25,722
from Madison to Paris, isn’t it.
1199
01:00:27,090 --> 01:00:28,925
That’s very moving.
1200
01:00:28,925 --> 01:00:30,760
Good morning
1201
01:00:31,561 --> 01:00:32,629
my dear friend.
1202
01:00:35,031 --> 01:00:37,600
And in some sense I also consider
1203
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,103
you as a spiritual brother.
1204
01:00:40,103 --> 01:00:43,006
I was with Francisco when the Dalai Lama called.
1205
01:00:43,006 --> 01:00:44,907
He could no longer move.
1206
01:00:44,907 --> 01:00:46,809
He could no longer talk.
1207
01:00:46,809 --> 01:00:49,212
But he was watching so strongly the screen
1208
01:00:49,212 --> 01:00:51,280
with the Dalai Lama speaking to him,
1209
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,950
that I thought he was going to dive into the screen,
1210
01:00:53,950 --> 01:00:56,586
as if it were a swimming pool.
1211
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,355
He was in the screen with him.
1212
01:01:00,156 --> 01:01:02,725
And it was a very, very moving moment
1213
01:01:02,725 --> 01:01:04,560
for everyone who was there.
1214
01:01:05,461 --> 01:01:09,232
So I wanted to express my,
1215
01:01:09,966 --> 01:01:14,203
uh, deep feeling to you,
1216
01:01:15,271 --> 01:01:16,272
as a human brother.
1217
01:01:17,774 --> 01:01:19,475
And your contribution
1218
01:01:21,944 --> 01:01:23,479
in science --
1219
01:01:23,813 --> 01:01:25,081
I think you made,
1220
01:01:25,081 --> 01:01:28,551
especially in neurology
1221
01:01:28,551 --> 01:01:32,088
you made great sort of contribution.
1222
01:01:32,088 --> 01:01:35,058
And then also in our work,
1223
01:01:35,058 --> 01:01:36,859
some kind of dialogue
1224
01:01:36,859 --> 01:01:39,262
between science
1225
01:01:39,262 --> 01:01:41,898
and Buddhist science of mind,
1226
01:01:43,366 --> 01:01:45,034
and also some other field,
1227
01:01:45,835 --> 01:01:47,770
I think you made great contribution.
1228
01:01:49,205 --> 01:01:51,207
So we never forget that.
1229
01:01:51,908 --> 01:01:53,176
Until my death,
1230
01:01:53,176 --> 01:01:57,013
I will remember you.
1231
01:01:57,914 --> 01:02:00,616
One year later Francisco's wife and son met
1232
01:02:00,616 --> 01:02:03,119
with the Dalai Lama, in remembrance.
1233
01:02:06,255 --> 01:02:07,824
How old are you?
1234
01:02:07,824 --> 01:02:08,424
Ten.
1235
01:02:11,094 --> 01:02:13,629
So, before you come to this world,
1236
01:02:13,629 --> 01:02:16,699
I already know your father.
1237
01:02:20,236 --> 01:02:21,938
So great, really great.
1238
01:02:25,708 --> 01:02:27,110
The Dalai Lama told me
1239
01:02:27,110 --> 01:02:29,879
that he always has this photo of Francisco with him,
1240
01:02:29,879 --> 01:02:31,948
and that he takes it with him,
1241
01:02:31,948 --> 01:02:32,949
whenever he travels,
1242
01:02:32,949 --> 01:02:33,916
wherever he goes,
1243
01:02:33,916 --> 01:02:36,018
to this day still.
1244
01:02:37,687 --> 01:02:40,022
And then, the Dalai Lama reaffirmed
1245
01:02:40,022 --> 01:02:42,525
his personal commitment to driving forward
1246
01:02:42,525 --> 01:02:45,061
the collaboration between Buddhist science
1247
01:02:45,061 --> 01:02:46,596
and western science,
1248
01:02:46,596 --> 01:02:47,964
in the years ahead.
1249
01:02:55,505 --> 01:02:56,806
In 2003,
1250
01:02:56,806 --> 01:02:57,540
the Dalai Lama opened
1251
01:02:57,540 --> 01:02:59,008
up his conversations
1252
01:02:59,008 --> 01:03:00,777
with scientists to the public,
1253
01:03:00,777 --> 01:03:02,411
with a groundbreaking conference
1254
01:03:02,411 --> 01:03:04,080
at one of the most prestigious
1255
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:06,783
scientific research universities in the world --
1256
01:03:06,783 --> 01:03:08,651
MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology).
1257
01:03:08,651 --> 01:03:10,186
In 1998,
1258
01:03:10,186 --> 01:03:12,488
we added collaborative research
1259
01:03:12,488 --> 01:03:13,456
to our mission.
1260
01:03:14,824 --> 01:03:16,859
And by that what we had in mind
1261
01:03:16,859 --> 01:03:18,561
was a true collaboration
1262
01:03:18,561 --> 01:03:20,062
between Buddhism and science,
1263
01:03:20,062 --> 01:03:22,098
where scientists and Buddhists
1264
01:03:22,098 --> 01:03:24,233
would stand shoulder to shoulder
1265
01:03:24,233 --> 01:03:26,769
and design the scientific protocols,
1266
01:03:26,769 --> 01:03:29,071
recruit the subjects,
1267
01:03:29,071 --> 01:03:30,606
execute the research,
1268
01:03:30,606 --> 01:03:32,508
analyze the results together,
1269
01:03:32,508 --> 01:03:34,310
and publish together.
1270
01:03:36,245 --> 01:03:37,446
All of our public meetings
1271
01:03:37,446 --> 01:03:38,481
have been co-sponsored
1272
01:03:38,481 --> 01:03:41,217
by major research universities,
1273
01:03:41,217 --> 01:03:42,685
starting with MIT
1274
01:03:42,685 --> 01:03:44,420
and then with Georgetown
1275
01:03:44,420 --> 01:03:46,088
and Johns Hopkins Medical Institute,
1276
01:03:46,088 --> 01:03:47,990
Emory, the Mayo Clinic,
1277
01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:49,225
the University of Zurich,
1278
01:03:49,225 --> 01:03:51,561
that really has gotten credibility
1279
01:03:51,561 --> 01:03:52,962
and acceptance.
1280
01:03:53,563 --> 01:03:55,698
I’m going to explain
1281
01:03:55,698 --> 01:03:58,434
a few things
1282
01:03:58,434 --> 01:04:02,238
about how mental imagery is being used
1283
01:04:02,238 --> 01:04:04,106
as part of a,
1284
01:04:04,106 --> 01:04:06,409
an effort of personal transformation.
1285
01:04:08,144 --> 01:04:10,580
I’ll be talking about introspection
1286
01:04:10,580 --> 01:04:12,982
and mechanism in mental imagery,
1287
01:04:12,982 --> 01:04:15,218
but let me start off by pointing out that
1288
01:04:15,218 --> 01:04:17,486
I have to be extremely humble.
1289
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:19,322
Um, that was
1290
01:04:19,322 --> 01:04:20,423
a fantastic talk we just heard,
1291
01:04:20,423 --> 01:04:21,490
and it reminded me of
1292
01:04:21,490 --> 01:04:22,859
how little we know
1293
01:04:22,859 --> 01:04:24,493
in the scientific community,
1294
01:04:24,493 --> 01:04:25,661
just how narrow
1295
01:04:25,661 --> 01:04:26,996
and focused we've been.
1296
01:04:26,996 --> 01:04:29,365
Hopefully we're starting to build a brick
1297
01:04:29,365 --> 01:04:31,234
that can contribute to the wall
1298
01:04:31,234 --> 01:04:33,369
but we really must be modest.
1299
01:04:33,369 --> 01:04:35,071
So with that preface.
1300
01:04:36,072 --> 01:04:36,739
Let me talk about
1301
01:04:36,739 --> 01:04:37,707
what we've discovered --
1302
01:04:49,352 --> 01:04:50,720
The Dalai Lama spoke
1303
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,689
before an overflow crowd of 14,000
1304
01:04:53,689 --> 01:04:55,024
at the annual meeting
1305
01:04:55,024 --> 01:04:57,260
of the Society for Neuroscience,
1306
01:04:57,260 --> 01:04:58,761
despite a petition started by
1307
01:04:58,761 --> 01:05:00,429
some Chinese neuroscientists
1308
01:05:00,429 --> 01:05:02,365
to ban him from speaking.
1309
01:05:02,365 --> 01:05:06,168
And in 2014, the Dalai Lama was invited to speak
1310
01:05:06,168 --> 01:05:09,672
at one of the world's foremost medical research centers,
1311
01:05:09,672 --> 01:05:11,874
the National Institute of Health,
1312
01:05:11,874 --> 01:05:14,143
where he was greeted with a standing ovation.
1313
01:05:14,143 --> 01:05:16,646
I don't think I can recall
1314
01:05:16,646 --> 01:05:19,849
ever seeing this auditorium this full,
1315
01:05:19,849 --> 01:05:22,718
and I've been at NIH for twenty years.
1316
01:05:22,718 --> 01:05:26,522
So that says something about the person
1317
01:05:26,522 --> 01:05:28,357
who is sitting to my left,
1318
01:05:28,357 --> 01:05:31,694
who I think all of you want to hear from,
1319
01:05:31,694 --> 01:05:34,497
His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
1320
01:05:34,497 --> 01:05:38,067
His Holiness saw a demonstration just a few minutes ago,
1321
01:05:38,067 --> 01:05:40,636
of a thirteen year old girl with cerebral palsy
1322
01:05:40,636 --> 01:05:43,072
who is in our rehabilitation lab,
1323
01:05:43,072 --> 01:05:44,907
with some very high tech
1324
01:05:44,907 --> 01:05:47,743
analyses of how her motor problems
1325
01:05:47,743 --> 01:05:49,845
connect with what's going on in the brain,
1326
01:05:49,845 --> 01:05:52,581
and how training on the elliptical
1327
01:05:52,581 --> 01:05:54,083
and some other things they're doing
1328
01:05:54,083 --> 01:05:57,219
is improving her leg’s functioning,
1329
01:05:57,219 --> 01:05:59,188
and maybe reprogramming
1330
01:05:59,188 --> 01:06:01,223
the motor part of her brain.
1331
01:06:01,223 --> 01:06:03,759
The controller is here,
1332
01:06:03,759 --> 01:06:06,662
so controller damaged,
1333
01:06:06,662 --> 01:06:09,532
and then this movement difficult.
1334
01:06:09,532 --> 01:06:11,634
So now I learned,
1335
01:06:11,634 --> 01:06:15,871
training here, can change the controller.
1336
01:06:15,871 --> 01:06:19,342
Ultimately, scientific research should
1337
01:06:19,342 --> 01:06:23,546
bring some benefit to humanity.
1338
01:06:27,350 --> 01:06:31,020
The company or concerned people
1339
01:06:31,020 --> 01:06:32,989
who made this,
1340
01:06:32,989 --> 01:06:35,591
I really very much appreciate.
1341
01:06:35,591 --> 01:06:38,227
And you, now you see,
1342
01:06:38,227 --> 01:06:42,598
can tell them how useful this is.
1343
01:06:42,598 --> 01:06:45,267
And then,
1344
01:06:45,267 --> 01:06:47,937
I think in Europe,
1345
01:06:47,937 --> 01:06:51,240
I think comparatively better, better facilities.
1346
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:53,809
But look at Africa.
1347
01:06:53,809 --> 01:06:54,777
Yeah.
1348
01:06:54,777 --> 01:06:56,278
Many poor people.
1349
01:06:58,748 --> 01:07:02,752
And then less developed countries,
1350
01:07:02,752 --> 01:07:07,390
the suffering is immense.
1351
01:07:07,757 --> 01:07:11,761
During the 21st century scientists,
1352
01:07:11,761 --> 01:07:13,329
technologists really
1353
01:07:13,329 --> 01:07:17,833
develop wonderful sorts of inventions.
1354
01:07:17,833 --> 01:07:18,868
So you can see, you can touch.
1355
01:07:20,669 --> 01:07:21,570
Cold hand.
1356
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:25,608
That’s this device here.
1357
01:07:27,209 --> 01:07:28,944
You see how the Vagus nerve here.
1358
01:07:28,944 --> 01:07:31,614
Yes. And it works?
1359
01:07:31,614 --> 01:07:35,651
Great sort of result, out of scientific research,
1360
01:07:35,651 --> 01:07:36,652
and technology also.
1361
01:07:36,652 --> 01:07:37,620
Wonderful.
1362
01:07:40,423 --> 01:07:41,424
Wonderful.
1363
01:07:45,261 --> 01:07:46,362
The Dalai Lama collected
1364
01:07:46,362 --> 01:07:47,897
a prestigious award today
1365
01:07:47,897 --> 01:07:50,399
for his unique contribution in engaging
1366
01:07:50,399 --> 01:07:52,535
with multiple dimensions of science.
1367
01:07:52,535 --> 01:07:54,437
The John Templeton Foundation
1368
01:07:54,437 --> 01:07:56,205
stated that for decades
1369
01:07:56,205 --> 01:07:57,306
the Dalai Lama has focused
1370
01:07:57,306 --> 01:07:58,507
on the connections
1371
01:07:58,507 --> 01:08:00,376
between the investigative traditions of science
1372
01:08:00,376 --> 01:08:01,977
and Buddhism, specifically
1373
01:08:01,977 --> 01:08:03,679
by encouraging scientific reviews
1374
01:08:03,679 --> 01:08:05,114
of the power of compassion
1375
01:08:05,114 --> 01:08:06,882
and its potential to address the
1376
01:08:06,882 --> 01:08:08,317
world's fundamental problems.
1377
01:08:08,317 --> 01:08:09,685
The Templeton award,
1378
01:08:09,685 --> 01:08:10,786
which was established
1379
01:08:10,786 --> 01:08:11,987
over forty years ago,
1380
01:08:11,987 --> 01:08:13,689
claims to be the world's largest
1381
01:08:13,689 --> 01:08:15,591
yearly monetary award.
1382
01:08:15,591 --> 01:08:16,926
The Dalai Lama
1383
01:08:16,926 --> 01:08:18,360
says that he intends to donate it
1384
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:20,362
to help impoverished children in India,
1385
01:08:20,362 --> 01:08:21,931
and also to fund further
1386
01:08:21,931 --> 01:08:24,700
scientific research and investigation.
1387
01:08:27,103 --> 01:08:30,206
The Dalai Lama continued to collaborate with many scientists,
1388
01:08:30,206 --> 01:08:32,208
including Richard Davidson.
1389
01:08:32,208 --> 01:08:33,676
If it weren’t for these dialogues,
1390
01:08:33,676 --> 01:08:36,278
I think I wouldn't have found some key insights.
1391
01:08:36,278 --> 01:08:39,215
It's been deeply important and meaningful.
1392
01:08:39,215 --> 01:08:43,018
And I think that it will transform science.
1393
01:08:43,018 --> 01:08:46,122
Neuroplasticity simply means that the brain changes
1394
01:08:46,122 --> 01:08:50,292
in response to experience and in response to training.
1395
01:08:50,292 --> 01:08:52,895
Most of the time the brain is changing unwittingly.
1396
01:08:52,895 --> 01:08:54,497
Recent evidence suggests that
1397
01:08:54,497 --> 01:08:56,265
the average American adult spends
1398
01:08:56,265 --> 01:08:57,933
Forty-seven percent of her
1399
01:08:57,933 --> 01:08:59,602
or his waking life,
1400
01:08:59,602 --> 01:09:02,071
not paying attention to what they're doing.
1401
01:09:02,071 --> 01:09:03,005
Now what you see,
1402
01:09:03,005 --> 01:09:04,106
here, is the expression
1403
01:09:04,106 --> 01:09:06,509
of high amplitude gamma oscillations.
1404
01:09:06,509 --> 01:09:08,177
These gamma oscillations
1405
01:09:08,177 --> 01:09:10,012
when they are seen in normal human
1406
01:09:10,012 --> 01:09:12,448
beings are typically very brief,
1407
01:09:12,448 --> 01:09:14,583
less than one second in duration.
1408
01:09:14,583 --> 01:09:18,387
But we observe them continuously at high amplitude
1409
01:09:18,387 --> 01:09:21,557
in these long term meditation practitioners.
1410
01:09:21,557 --> 01:09:23,926
These are oscillations which are associated
1411
01:09:23,926 --> 01:09:25,794
with states of focused attention,
1412
01:09:25,794 --> 01:09:28,097
as well as periods of insight when different elements
1413
01:09:28,097 --> 01:09:29,932
of a percept
1414
01:09:29,932 --> 01:09:31,467
or an idea come together
1415
01:09:31,467 --> 01:09:33,802
in a kind of momentary insight.
1416
01:09:34,003 --> 01:09:36,205
Then you see a burst of gamma.
1417
01:09:36,205 --> 01:09:37,940
Now, this is very interesting --
1418
01:09:37,940 --> 01:09:40,609
we have for the very first time a technology
1419
01:09:40,609 --> 01:09:43,712
which allows us to actually look at epigenetic changes
1420
01:09:43,712 --> 01:09:45,948
in human brain tissue.
1421
01:09:45,948 --> 01:09:47,550
We can take a blood cell,
1422
01:09:47,550 --> 01:09:49,251
and we can convert that cell
1423
01:09:49,251 --> 01:09:51,487
into a pluripotent stem cell.
1424
01:09:51,487 --> 01:09:53,022
We can then turn it into
1425
01:09:53,022 --> 01:09:54,823
any other kind of cell in the body.
1426
01:09:54,823 --> 01:09:57,092
And one of the things that we can do, in a dish,
1427
01:09:57,092 --> 01:09:59,461
is that we can turn it into any kind
1428
01:09:59,461 --> 01:10:03,132
of neuron that we find in the human brain,
1429
01:10:03,132 --> 01:10:05,634
and then we can look at the gene expression
1430
01:10:05,634 --> 01:10:07,436
in that neuronal stage.
1431
01:10:07,436 --> 01:10:11,974
And so this is going to usher in a whole new era of investigation
1432
01:10:11,974 --> 01:10:14,810
that enables us to look with much greater specificity,
1433
01:10:14,810 --> 01:10:17,346
at the brain, than ever before.
1434
01:10:17,346 --> 01:10:20,583
It is also important to know that there are three major
1435
01:10:20,583 --> 01:10:23,919
periods of increased plasticity in the brain --
1436
01:10:23,919 --> 01:10:26,021
one is right around birth;
1437
01:10:26,021 --> 01:10:27,690
the second is around the onset of schooling
1438
01:10:27,690 --> 01:10:30,593
between the ages of five and seven years;
1439
01:10:30,593 --> 01:10:33,462
and the third is around adolescence.
1440
01:10:33,462 --> 01:10:36,899
These are periods where the brain is radically reorganized,
1441
01:10:36,899 --> 01:10:40,436
and these are all opportunities for intervention.
1442
01:11:03,692 --> 01:11:05,794
The Dalai Lama also worked closely
1443
01:11:05,794 --> 01:11:09,265
for many years with other scientists, like Paul Ekman.
1444
01:11:09,265 --> 01:11:10,666
In 2016,
1445
01:11:10,666 --> 01:11:12,301
they launched their comprehensive
1446
01:11:12,301 --> 01:11:14,203
map of human emotions.
1447
01:11:14,203 --> 01:11:17,339
If I heard you correctly, Your Holiness,
1448
01:11:17,339 --> 01:11:19,141
you are talking about a map of emotions.
1449
01:11:19,141 --> 01:11:20,042
Yes.
1450
01:11:20,042 --> 01:11:21,043
We human beings,
1451
01:11:21,043 --> 01:11:23,812
this marvelous intelligence,
1452
01:11:23,812 --> 01:11:27,916
either you see becomes a source of happiness,
1453
01:11:27,916 --> 01:11:29,852
or a source of worry.
1454
01:11:30,653 --> 01:11:34,390
You have all the facilities, but at the same time
1455
01:11:35,057 --> 01:11:38,927
can be very, very unhappy person.
1456
01:11:38,927 --> 01:11:41,730
We met every week for almost two years,
1457
01:11:41,730 --> 01:11:43,332
trying to figure out
1458
01:11:43,332 --> 01:11:45,701
how can we use graphics
1459
01:11:45,701 --> 01:11:48,804
to give us insight into our emotions?
1460
01:11:48,804 --> 01:11:50,272
How can we map them?
1461
01:11:50,639 --> 01:11:53,542
The process of creating the map,
1462
01:11:53,909 --> 01:11:56,011
of answering the questions that he kept raising
1463
01:11:56,011 --> 01:11:58,847
about how to do it, how it should be shown,
1464
01:11:58,847 --> 01:12:01,984
made me think about emotions in a way I hadn't
1465
01:12:01,984 --> 01:12:03,419
thought of up until then,
1466
01:12:03,419 --> 01:12:05,721
after fifty years of studying emotion.
1467
01:12:06,488 --> 01:12:09,358
Because of emotions we may starve ourself to death,
1468
01:12:09,858 --> 01:12:13,128
because of emotions we may take our own life,
1469
01:12:13,562 --> 01:12:16,131
but the fundamental drives are puny compared
1470
01:12:16,131 --> 01:12:20,169
to the power of emotions which override them --
1471
01:12:20,169 --> 01:12:23,505
they are what drives life.
1472
01:12:23,505 --> 01:12:25,541
We must, sort of, utilize
1473
01:12:25,541 --> 01:12:29,311
a deeper level of our ability
1474
01:12:29,311 --> 01:12:30,979
to think,
1475
01:12:30,979 --> 01:12:34,650
to tackle our emotions.
1476
01:12:40,422 --> 01:12:43,425
The scientific dialogues continued, and they covered
1477
01:12:43,425 --> 01:12:46,895
molecular biology and genetics.
1478
01:12:46,895 --> 01:12:49,264
What I'm going to talk about essentially
1479
01:12:49,264 --> 01:12:51,266
is how parents
1480
01:12:51,266 --> 01:12:53,469
alter the activity of genes
1481
01:12:53,469 --> 01:12:56,138
in the brain and how that influences the way
1482
01:12:56,138 --> 01:12:58,207
their children respond to stress,
1483
01:12:58,207 --> 01:13:00,809
and in particular what I'd like to talk about,
1484
01:13:00,809 --> 01:13:02,778
and that component that may be somewhat new,
1485
01:13:02,778 --> 01:13:07,449
is how it is that the influence of parents can persist
1486
01:13:07,449 --> 01:13:09,585
potentially over the entire lifespan.
1487
01:13:10,219 --> 01:13:11,754
The idea is,
1488
01:13:11,754 --> 01:13:13,255
that as I mentioned, parental care alters
1489
01:13:13,255 --> 01:13:15,791
the activity of genes in the brain,
1490
01:13:15,791 --> 01:13:17,359
and that these effects are very specific.
1491
01:13:17,593 --> 01:13:19,828
Then the second component is this --
1492
01:13:19,828 --> 01:13:24,466
these parental effects actually involve a form of plasticity.
1493
01:13:25,267 --> 01:13:27,469
But this plasticity is different.
1494
01:13:27,836 --> 01:13:31,240
It doesn't involve connections between neurons.
1495
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:33,475
The modifications actually occur
1496
01:13:33,475 --> 01:13:35,477
at the level of the gene itself.
1497
01:13:35,911 --> 01:13:39,248
And that there is an organization of the chemical
1498
01:13:39,248 --> 01:13:42,184
environment in which the gene operates,
1499
01:13:42,184 --> 01:13:44,052
and that is the effect
1500
01:13:44,052 --> 01:13:46,288
that then sustains itself over the lifespan.
1501
01:13:46,522 --> 01:13:48,891
They began to collaborate.
1502
01:13:48,891 --> 01:13:50,292
And what was so
1503
01:13:50,292 --> 01:13:52,561
impressive I think was the overlay between
1504
01:13:52,561 --> 01:13:53,896
Buddhist philosophy
1505
01:13:53,896 --> 01:13:56,532
and cognitive behavioral therapy,
1506
01:13:56,532 --> 01:13:58,100
and what I wanted to do was to try to bring
1507
01:13:58,100 --> 01:13:59,868
that into a particular context.
1508
01:13:59,868 --> 01:14:02,471
What we're understanding is that many forms of illness
1509
01:14:02,471 --> 01:14:06,508
and disease is shaped first by events that occur
1510
01:14:06,508 --> 01:14:07,509
early in life.
1511
01:14:08,544 --> 01:14:10,712
And second, it is shaped by
1512
01:14:10,712 --> 01:14:12,815
various forms of family experience.
1513
01:14:12,815 --> 01:14:16,351
And I'd like yourself and members of the audience
1514
01:14:16,852 --> 01:14:19,888
to simply imagine life as a child,
1515
01:14:19,888 --> 01:14:23,025
growing up in a family with
1516
01:14:23,025 --> 01:14:25,127
drug abuse, unemployment,
1517
01:14:25,127 --> 01:14:27,996
financial stress,
1518
01:14:27,996 --> 01:14:30,132
and physical and sexual abuse.
1519
01:14:30,699 --> 01:14:33,335
And emotionally they then become people
1520
01:14:33,335 --> 01:14:36,205
who are very sensitive to threat.
1521
01:14:36,438 --> 01:14:39,741
For these children their anger is not wrong.
1522
01:14:39,741 --> 01:14:42,211
It is very adaptive.
1523
01:14:42,211 --> 01:14:43,278
We've created an environment
1524
01:14:43,278 --> 01:14:45,614
in which the child must normally be angry.
1525
01:14:46,014 --> 01:14:48,317
And one of the problems that we face in medicine,
1526
01:14:48,317 --> 01:14:50,118
in particular in psychiatry,
1527
01:14:50,419 --> 01:14:53,155
is how do we reach out to those children.
1528
01:14:53,155 --> 01:14:56,258
How do we deal with that form of anger?
1529
01:15:02,064 --> 01:15:04,867
Of course, you know, related to this is the question
1530
01:15:04,867 --> 01:15:07,970
which His Holiness was saying that he has
1531
01:15:07,970 --> 01:15:10,072
been often asking and interested,
1532
01:15:10,072 --> 01:15:13,876
that as a result of changes at the brain level,
1533
01:15:13,876 --> 01:15:15,711
there is a manifestation of changes
1534
01:15:15,711 --> 01:15:17,412
at the psychological and emotional level.
1535
01:15:17,412 --> 01:15:19,615
Yes, that's uncontentious.
1536
01:15:19,615 --> 01:15:22,084
But can one also imagine
1537
01:15:22,084 --> 01:15:23,318
the reversal process,
1538
01:15:23,318 --> 01:15:25,420
where as a result of a thought process,
1539
01:15:25,420 --> 01:15:27,389
change in the thought process,
1540
01:15:27,389 --> 01:15:32,060
one could see a change on the brain level, as well.
1541
01:15:32,060 --> 01:15:35,697
The optimism here is that these can occur,
1542
01:15:35,697 --> 01:15:39,167
and that the dialogue involved in
1543
01:15:39,167 --> 01:15:40,168
cognitive behavioural therapy
1544
01:15:40,168 --> 01:15:42,271
or in Buddhist philosophy
1545
01:15:42,271 --> 01:15:44,940
can, there is the prospect,
1546
01:15:44,940 --> 01:15:47,376
of changing at the level of the gene itself.
1547
01:15:47,376 --> 01:15:49,511
There is the prospect.
1548
01:15:52,681 --> 01:15:54,750
I think a lot of our problems,
1549
01:15:54,750 --> 01:15:59,354
not necessarily created by technology itself,
1550
01:15:59,354 --> 01:16:02,190
but by anger, hatred, fear.
1551
01:16:02,357 --> 01:16:05,193
I had the honor to spend a week in Dharamsala
1552
01:16:05,193 --> 01:16:07,029
at the invitation of His Holiness
1553
01:16:07,029 --> 01:16:08,564
for a remarkable meeting,
1554
01:16:08,564 --> 01:16:09,831
“The Nature of Life”,
1555
01:16:09,831 --> 01:16:12,834
and it was a truly remarkable experience.
1556
01:16:12,834 --> 01:16:14,469
It was a discussion we were having to do
1557
01:16:14,469 --> 01:16:17,005
about embryonic stem cells.
1558
01:16:17,673 --> 01:16:19,875
And it was offered
1559
01:16:19,875 --> 01:16:21,009
from the Buddhist perspective
1560
01:16:21,009 --> 01:16:23,045
that the Abhidharma mentions that
1561
01:16:23,045 --> 01:16:26,682
through the meeting of two regenerative substances
1562
01:16:26,682 --> 01:16:28,183
of the mother and the father,
1563
01:16:28,183 --> 01:16:31,386
consciousness enters and the being then becomes sentient.
1564
01:16:31,386 --> 01:16:34,990
From which you might reason that the being
1565
01:16:34,990 --> 01:16:37,559
becomes a sentient immediately at fertilization,
1566
01:16:37,559 --> 01:16:41,196
and that there would therefore be very serious problems
1567
01:16:41,196 --> 01:16:43,265
with working with such a cell.
1568
01:16:43,265 --> 01:16:45,434
And that was the opening position, the opening thought.
1569
01:16:45,434 --> 01:16:48,804
And as more scientific discussion went back and forth
1570
01:16:48,804 --> 01:16:51,406
about this point, it emerged that yes,
1571
01:16:51,406 --> 01:16:54,710
but if you took embryos and separated the cells
1572
01:16:54,710 --> 01:16:57,479
you got two people, not one.
1573
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:01,750
And if you implanted an embryo it was no guarantee
1574
01:17:01,750 --> 01:17:03,185
that you would even get a single person,
1575
01:17:03,185 --> 01:17:04,152
you might get none,
1576
01:17:04,152 --> 01:17:08,290
because most embryos spontaneously abort.
1577
01:17:08,290 --> 01:17:10,892
And so maybe it wasn't so simple. And maybe in fact --
1578
01:17:10,892 --> 01:17:13,395
and it was just a remarkable
1579
01:17:13,395 --> 01:17:14,596
moment for me as a scientist
1580
01:17:14,596 --> 01:17:17,566
hearing the Buddhists and His Holiness discussing this.
1581
01:17:17,566 --> 01:17:19,067
Maybe, in fact,
1582
01:17:19,067 --> 01:17:21,236
there was a different interpretation there,
1583
01:17:21,236 --> 01:17:23,538
and maybe there was no negative karma associated
1584
01:17:23,538 --> 01:17:25,641
with experimentation at that point.
1585
01:17:25,641 --> 01:17:27,509
I think our
1586
01:17:27,509 --> 01:17:29,044
knowledge about consciousness,
1587
01:17:29,044 --> 01:17:31,380
as time goes, time passes,
1588
01:17:31,380 --> 01:17:32,748
I think will increase,
1589
01:17:32,748 --> 01:17:33,715
this is my feeling.
1590
01:17:33,715 --> 01:17:36,218
Right now in the west, people
1591
01:17:36,218 --> 01:17:38,387
are trying to write about
1592
01:17:38,387 --> 01:17:40,689
the ethical questions in genetics.
1593
01:17:40,689 --> 01:17:47,195
And I hope that the monks here and yourself
1594
01:17:47,195 --> 01:17:49,965
don't feel like you have to wait.
1595
01:17:49,965 --> 01:17:51,800
I know several of the monks have said,
1596
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,769
"Well, I have so much to learn and so much to learn."
1597
01:17:53,769 --> 01:17:56,371
You also have so much to teach.
1598
01:18:17,859 --> 01:18:21,997
Still a lot of things to further develop.
1599
01:18:21,997 --> 01:18:26,568
So combination of discussion, you see,
1600
01:18:26,568 --> 01:18:29,838
helps to extend knowledge,
1601
01:18:30,405 --> 01:18:32,274
and the field of scientific research
1602
01:18:32,274 --> 01:18:34,509
also now can expand.
1603
01:18:36,278 --> 01:18:38,213
The Dalai Lama supported opening the field
1604
01:18:38,213 --> 01:18:39,748
of contemplative neuroscience
1605
01:18:39,748 --> 01:18:42,684
to a new generation.
1606
01:18:43,618 --> 01:18:45,687
I'm a neuroscientist, and I did my PhD
1607
01:18:45,687 --> 01:18:48,690
and postdoctoral work at Emory University.
1608
01:18:49,057 --> 01:18:51,827
And they suggested that I go to the Summer Research Institute.
1609
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:54,329
And then following on that I was able
1610
01:18:54,329 --> 01:18:55,831
to get a grant to do a research study,
1611
01:18:55,831 --> 01:18:57,566
a neuroimaging study on meditation,
1612
01:18:57,566 --> 01:18:59,534
and so that really launched my career
1613
01:18:59,534 --> 01:19:01,336
into a different direction.
1614
01:19:03,405 --> 01:19:04,873
The Summer Research Institute is
1615
01:19:04,873 --> 01:19:07,109
really instrumental in this whole field.
1616
01:19:07,109 --> 01:19:09,678
They bring in a lot of the senior researchers and scholars,
1617
01:19:09,678 --> 01:19:11,413
and a lot of the younger graduate students and postdocs
1618
01:19:11,713 --> 01:19:12,681
that are coming up,
1619
01:19:12,681 --> 01:19:15,050
and the idea is to really foster our development.
1620
01:19:17,219 --> 01:19:18,720
Young scientists who attend
1621
01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:20,722
the Summer Research Institute are eligible
1622
01:19:20,722 --> 01:19:24,326
to apply for a $20,000 Varela grant.
1623
01:19:24,693 --> 01:19:28,130
More than sixty-three million in follow on grant research funding
1624
01:19:28,130 --> 01:19:30,265
in the field of contemplative neuroscience
1625
01:19:30,265 --> 01:19:32,701
has been raised as a result.
1626
01:19:32,701 --> 01:19:36,671
If you put out a request for papers to a conference,
1627
01:19:36,671 --> 01:19:38,273
who should be allowed to speak?
1628
01:19:38,273 --> 01:19:41,276
You know, if you're a young person
1629
01:19:41,276 --> 01:19:43,945
and you're just getting your feet wet you may
1630
01:19:43,945 --> 01:19:47,315
actually be making a fool of yourself when you get up
1631
01:19:47,649 --> 01:19:51,453
and give your poster paper or your presentation,
1632
01:19:51,453 --> 01:19:54,189
but actually that's part of growing into the field.
1633
01:19:54,189 --> 01:19:58,126
There's a nurturing that you can do of a community
1634
01:19:58,126 --> 01:20:00,862
through inclusion in a conference.
1635
01:20:02,297 --> 01:20:04,332
Neuroscientist Amishi Jha
1636
01:20:04,332 --> 01:20:08,170
was awarded a Varela Grant in the year 2005.
1637
01:20:08,170 --> 01:20:13,141
Hello, everyone. Can you hear me? All right.
1638
01:20:15,644 --> 01:20:18,980
Can you see my face? OK.
1639
01:20:18,980 --> 01:20:23,518
The Dalai Lama's intervention allows me to take very seriously
1640
01:20:23,518 --> 01:20:26,721
the wisdom that comes from the Buddhist texts.
1641
01:20:26,721 --> 01:20:28,990
Even in the conversation I had with him directly
1642
01:20:28,990 --> 01:20:30,559
during this meeting,
1643
01:20:30,559 --> 01:20:31,793
it was clear that
1644
01:20:31,793 --> 01:20:33,528
this terrain he knows well.
1645
01:20:33,528 --> 01:20:36,631
And in some sense my results were so familiar
1646
01:20:36,631 --> 01:20:38,834
to him that he almost thought there were obvious.
1647
01:20:38,834 --> 01:20:40,735
That's sort of shocking because it's taken us
1648
01:20:40,735 --> 01:20:43,538
about seventy years of attention research in
1649
01:20:43,538 --> 01:20:45,640
the field of cognitive neuroscience to really
1650
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:48,376
come to a clear answer to some of these questions.
1651
01:20:48,376 --> 01:20:51,079
And to him it was what he predicted and it's what
1652
01:20:51,079 --> 01:20:53,181
he was happy to see, but he wasn't surprised by it.
1653
01:20:53,181 --> 01:20:57,519
It's definitely helped me feel like I have a whole
1654
01:20:57,519 --> 01:21:00,856
other goldmine of thought to lean on
1655
01:21:00,856 --> 01:21:03,024
for motivating hypotheses in our studies.
1656
01:21:03,024 --> 01:21:05,493
So Buddha himself, you see, made clear --
1657
01:21:05,493 --> 01:21:09,497
all my followers, monks, scholars,
1658
01:21:09,497 --> 01:21:12,133
should not accept my teaching out of faith,
1659
01:21:12,133 --> 01:21:16,471
but rather a thorough investigation and experiment.
1660
01:21:18,073 --> 01:21:21,543
Today we have the great privilege of exploring
1661
01:21:21,543 --> 01:21:24,246
what is one of the greatest mysteries of all,
1662
01:21:24,246 --> 01:21:28,016
the nature of consciousness, the nature of the mind.
1663
01:21:28,016 --> 01:21:31,653
Professor Christof Koch, who's a professor of biology
1664
01:21:31,653 --> 01:21:33,521
and engineering at Caltech.
1665
01:21:33,521 --> 01:21:36,992
He is also the chief scientist
1666
01:21:36,992 --> 01:21:39,294
at the Paul Allen Institute
1667
01:21:39,294 --> 01:21:42,130
for Brain Science, a remarkable new initiative.
1668
01:21:42,130 --> 01:21:44,199
Your Holiness, I have the great responsibility
1669
01:21:44,199 --> 01:21:48,003
of representing 2,300 years of Western thought
1670
01:21:48,003 --> 01:21:48,937
on this in one hour.
1671
01:21:49,037 --> 01:21:51,172
This tradition reaches back all the way
1672
01:21:51,172 --> 01:21:53,441
to the Greeks in Western thought.
1673
01:21:53,441 --> 01:21:58,013
It's this tradition that stresses the empirical calling of nature.
1674
01:21:58,013 --> 01:22:00,215
You can think about things but ultimately
1675
01:22:00,215 --> 01:22:01,983
you have to test them against reality,
1676
01:22:01,983 --> 01:22:03,785
and your theories including theories of
1677
01:22:03,785 --> 01:22:05,453
consciousness have to be testable,
1678
01:22:05,453 --> 01:22:07,989
otherwise they are not scientific theories.
1679
01:22:08,523 --> 01:22:11,626
When I spent a week with His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
1680
01:22:11,626 --> 01:22:12,994
I was struck by how often he talked about
1681
01:22:12,994 --> 01:22:17,432
the need to reduce the suffering of all conscious creatures,
1682
01:22:17,432 --> 01:22:18,867
not just all people.
1683
01:22:19,668 --> 01:22:22,537
That highly organised matter such as my brain,
1684
01:22:22,537 --> 01:22:24,739
such as your brain, such as the brains of other creatures,
1685
01:22:24,739 --> 01:22:26,841
comes with conscious experience.
1686
01:22:26,841 --> 01:22:29,644
I was struck by particular types of meditation.
1687
01:22:29,644 --> 01:22:33,748
You can have what Buddhists call a naked awareness,
1688
01:22:33,748 --> 01:22:35,650
pure experience, sheer experience,
1689
01:22:35,650 --> 01:22:38,753
when you're conscious, so you're not asleep,
1690
01:22:38,753 --> 01:22:40,088
you're conscious, but there's no content,
1691
01:22:40,088 --> 01:22:42,090
there's no desire, no dream,
1692
01:22:42,090 --> 01:22:43,992
no fear, no ego,
1693
01:22:43,992 --> 01:22:45,593
no sensory messages,
1694
01:22:45,593 --> 01:22:47,162
but you're still conscious.
1695
01:22:47,162 --> 01:22:49,631
Pure consciousness, very interesting.
1696
01:22:52,734 --> 01:22:54,803
More and more there was strong and
1697
01:22:54,803 --> 01:22:56,905
growing support for the concept
1698
01:22:56,905 --> 01:22:58,974
of allowing young Buddhist scholars
1699
01:22:58,974 --> 01:23:00,642
who had mastered these techniques of controlling
1700
01:23:00,642 --> 01:23:03,244
their own minds to also
1701
01:23:03,244 --> 01:23:06,348
be trained as scientists themselves.
1702
01:23:06,514 --> 01:23:09,684
I think now more than ten years we
1703
01:23:09,684 --> 01:23:13,588
start selected monk students
1704
01:23:13,588 --> 01:23:16,825
and in a special sort of class for science.
1705
01:23:16,825 --> 01:23:19,494
I will just make a brief outline
1706
01:23:19,494 --> 01:23:21,329
how we are overseeing
1707
01:23:21,329 --> 01:23:22,864
many of the science initiatives
1708
01:23:22,864 --> 01:23:23,932
that are taking place
1709
01:23:23,932 --> 01:23:26,067
due to the guidance of His Holiness.
1710
01:23:26,067 --> 01:23:27,936
The science for the monks
1711
01:23:27,936 --> 01:23:31,740
is an initiative since the year 2001.
1712
01:23:31,740 --> 01:23:33,408
That was followed by the
1713
01:23:33,408 --> 01:23:35,744
secular science leadership.
1714
01:23:35,744 --> 01:23:38,146
The leadership program came into being because
1715
01:23:38,146 --> 01:23:39,881
we felt that was important not only to give the basic
1716
01:23:39,881 --> 01:23:43,251
science education but also to create a network
1717
01:23:43,251 --> 01:23:46,388
of science teachers or others who do the fieldwork
1718
01:23:46,388 --> 01:23:48,390
in different monasteries.
1719
01:23:49,391 --> 01:23:51,726
Many science teachers,
1720
01:23:51,726 --> 01:23:53,228
they very much impressed.
1721
01:23:53,228 --> 01:23:54,896
These monk students
1722
01:23:55,430 --> 01:23:57,298
do not know English,
1723
01:23:57,298 --> 01:23:59,401
do not know math, mathematic.
1724
01:23:59,534 --> 01:24:03,238
But their way to thinking, to analyze,
1725
01:24:03,238 --> 01:24:04,906
you see, very sharp.
1726
01:24:05,874 --> 01:24:09,444
In 2006,
1727
01:24:09,444 --> 01:24:10,745
when Your Holiness invited us
1728
01:24:10,745 --> 01:24:12,347
to collaborate with the library,
1729
01:24:12,347 --> 01:24:14,115
of Tibetan works and archives,
1730
01:24:14,115 --> 01:24:16,484
to develop this program,
1731
01:24:16,484 --> 01:24:18,553
it was a great honor for Emory University .
1732
01:24:18,553 --> 01:24:21,923
Certainly a program like this is
1733
01:24:21,923 --> 01:24:25,827
its aim is not only
1734
01:24:25,827 --> 01:24:28,730
to impart modern science education
1735
01:24:28,730 --> 01:24:30,965
for the Tibetan monks and nuns,
1736
01:24:31,433 --> 01:24:33,101
but His Holiness' vision
1737
01:24:33,101 --> 01:24:35,737
here is to prepare
1738
01:24:35,737 --> 01:24:38,973
the future contemplative collaborators with
1739
01:24:38,973 --> 01:24:40,642
the science so that
1740
01:24:40,642 --> 01:24:42,343
new knowledge can be formed
1741
01:24:42,343 --> 01:24:44,279
which can have a
1742
01:24:44,279 --> 01:24:47,749
tremendous benefit for the humanity at large.
1743
01:24:47,749 --> 01:24:50,418
And then monk students
1744
01:24:50,418 --> 01:24:52,353
themselves also gradually,
1745
01:24:52,353 --> 01:24:54,155
they really found
1746
01:24:54,322 --> 01:24:55,457
not only just interest
1747
01:24:55,457 --> 01:24:57,425
but something very useful.
1748
01:24:57,826 --> 01:24:59,094
Extensive science curriculum
1749
01:24:59,094 --> 01:25:01,296
has been created and translated.
1750
01:25:01,296 --> 01:25:03,631
Many Tibetan monks have been trained
1751
01:25:03,631 --> 01:25:05,166
over years at Emory University
1752
01:25:05,166 --> 01:25:06,568
to become science teachers
1753
01:25:06,568 --> 01:25:07,869
for the project,
1754
01:25:08,103 --> 01:25:10,672
and new science centers have been created
1755
01:25:10,672 --> 01:25:12,807
at all of the leading Tibetan monasteries in India.
1756
01:25:13,341 --> 01:25:14,609
For the first time
1757
01:25:14,609 --> 01:25:15,844
in two thousand years,
1758
01:25:15,844 --> 01:25:17,745
a dramatic change has been made
1759
01:25:17,745 --> 01:25:19,848
in Tibetan monastic education.
1760
01:25:19,848 --> 01:25:21,850
Science has officially become
1761
01:25:21,850 --> 01:25:23,918
a required course of study.
1762
01:25:25,954 --> 01:25:29,858
And if we can implement knowledge from
1763
01:25:29,858 --> 01:25:32,927
Buddhist science and Buddhist philosophy,
1764
01:25:32,927 --> 01:25:35,997
then we can create a collaboration
1765
01:25:35,997 --> 01:25:38,266
of knowledge which can
1766
01:25:38,266 --> 01:25:40,135
have a very positive outcome.
1767
01:25:40,135 --> 01:25:42,036
Although the outcome
1768
01:25:42,036 --> 01:25:43,838
may not appear immediately,
1769
01:25:43,838 --> 01:25:45,807
in the long run
1770
01:25:45,807 --> 01:25:48,243
they will be great results and
1771
01:25:48,243 --> 01:25:49,878
great progress.
1772
01:25:49,878 --> 01:25:52,280
And I see it as a contribution
1773
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:54,749
to the future generations,
1774
01:25:54,749 --> 01:25:58,353
and, ah, humanity as a whole.
1775
01:26:02,824 --> 01:26:04,926
The Dalai Lama also encouraged the development
1776
01:26:04,926 --> 01:26:08,463
of new scientifically based education curriculum for youth.
1777
01:26:08,463 --> 01:26:12,233
A conference was held in 2018 for the
1778
01:26:12,233 --> 01:26:14,269
presentation of some model programs.
1779
01:26:14,269 --> 01:26:18,573
And so your office extended an invitation to individuals
1780
01:26:18,573 --> 01:26:22,277
around the world to think about building curricula
1781
01:26:22,277 --> 01:26:23,778
that have an ethical dimension to them.
1782
01:26:23,778 --> 01:26:27,382
And this is where Jennifer Knox and her colleagues
1783
01:26:27,382 --> 01:26:30,785
in the group at Emory have been doing some
1784
01:26:30,785 --> 01:26:31,586
really fundamental work.
1785
01:26:31,719 --> 01:26:36,024
Their program is called, the SEE Program,
1786
01:26:36,024 --> 01:26:38,359
social, emotional, and ethical learning.
1787
01:26:38,893 --> 01:26:43,097
Three focuses of inner focus and emotional intelligence,
1788
01:26:43,097 --> 01:26:46,501
other focus, social intelligence,
1789
01:26:46,501 --> 01:26:49,704
and outer focus, systems intelligence.
1790
01:26:49,704 --> 01:26:53,141
Many individuals who are in our culture
1791
01:26:53,141 --> 01:26:54,943
have experienced trauma
1792
01:26:55,243 --> 01:26:57,579
and so without developing
1793
01:26:57,579 --> 01:26:59,714
some fundamental skills of
1794
01:26:59,714 --> 01:27:01,182
regulating the nervous system,
1795
01:27:01,216 --> 01:27:02,550
the students are not
1796
01:27:02,550 --> 01:27:03,885
often able to even
1797
01:27:03,885 --> 01:27:05,620
move into a meditation and the breath
1798
01:27:05,620 --> 01:27:07,155
can often be a trigger
1799
01:27:07,155 --> 01:27:08,823
for that former trauma.
1800
01:27:08,823 --> 01:27:10,992
So we've built in an entire chapter
1801
01:27:10,992 --> 01:27:12,493
based on building
1802
01:27:12,493 --> 01:27:15,296
skills of resilience.
1803
01:27:15,296 --> 01:27:17,498
Scientifically based on the breakthroughs
1804
01:27:17,498 --> 01:27:18,866
that have been made in the fields
1805
01:27:18,866 --> 01:27:19,667
of cognitive science,
1806
01:27:19,667 --> 01:27:21,169
epigenetics,
1807
01:27:21,169 --> 01:27:22,170
and neuroscience
1808
01:27:22,170 --> 01:27:23,137
over the past thirty years,
1809
01:27:23,171 --> 01:27:24,973
the SEE program teaches
1810
01:27:24,973 --> 01:27:26,674
effective coping skills,
1811
01:27:26,674 --> 01:27:30,111
strategies that can used to regulate emotion,
1812
01:27:30,111 --> 01:27:32,180
and strategies to gain focus.
1813
01:27:32,180 --> 01:27:34,182
Now the modern knowledge,
1814
01:27:34,182 --> 01:27:35,416
education,
1815
01:27:36,751 --> 01:27:42,123
not adequate to bring happy society.
1816
01:27:42,123 --> 01:27:46,261
We create some problem, disagreement,
1817
01:27:47,128 --> 01:27:50,265
then the solution,
1818
01:27:50,265 --> 01:27:55,136
we put the responsibility of the solution on gun.
1819
01:27:56,938 --> 01:27:58,640
Totally wrong.
1820
01:27:59,140 --> 01:28:01,175
The SEE program has been translated
1821
01:28:01,175 --> 01:28:02,977
into twelve different languages
1822
01:28:02,977 --> 01:28:05,146
and in April of 2019
1823
01:28:05,146 --> 01:28:06,681
the Dalai Lama launched
1824
01:28:06,681 --> 01:28:08,549
the program worldwide.
1825
01:28:13,888 --> 01:28:17,625
This is our thirtieth dialogue.
1826
01:28:18,393 --> 01:28:22,130
Thirty occasions where we have sat with His Holiness,
1827
01:28:22,130 --> 01:28:25,433
scientists, philosophers, scholars
1828
01:28:25,433 --> 01:28:28,269
and contemplatives,
1829
01:28:28,269 --> 01:28:31,406
investigating the relationship between
1830
01:28:31,406 --> 01:28:34,242
Buddhist science and modern science.
1831
01:28:34,242 --> 01:28:36,411
We also want to acknowledge
1832
01:28:36,411 --> 01:28:39,714
your dear friend Francisco Varela
1833
01:28:39,714 --> 01:28:41,816
whose vision
1834
01:28:41,816 --> 01:28:45,019
made it possible in a very powerful
1835
01:28:45,019 --> 01:28:47,655
way for all of us to be together
1836
01:28:47,655 --> 01:28:49,991
and to greet Amy Varela.
1837
01:28:49,991 --> 01:28:51,626
Where are you Amy?
1838
01:28:51,626 --> 01:28:57,598
Who is president of the board of Mind & Life Europe.
1839
01:29:02,337 --> 01:29:04,539
Creating bridges through dialogue
1840
01:29:04,539 --> 01:29:05,773
is not a quick
1841
01:29:05,773 --> 01:29:08,142
and straightforward process.
1842
01:29:08,476 --> 01:29:11,145
To participate in a true dialogue,
1843
01:29:11,145 --> 01:29:13,281
you must bring to it
1844
01:29:13,281 --> 01:29:15,783
the whole of yourself.
1845
01:29:16,184 --> 01:29:18,152
You must expect that building a bridge
1846
01:29:18,152 --> 01:29:20,722
may be slow, difficult,
1847
01:29:20,722 --> 01:29:23,224
even threatening at times.
1848
01:29:23,224 --> 01:29:25,426
Its essence is in its dynamical
1849
01:29:25,426 --> 01:29:26,661
and open nature,
1850
01:29:27,261 --> 01:29:29,130
which is a necessary condition
1851
01:29:29,130 --> 01:29:31,399
for something really new
1852
01:29:31,399 --> 01:29:33,634
to emerge from it.
1853
01:29:33,634 --> 01:29:35,436
And the active ingredient
1854
01:29:35,436 --> 01:29:38,873
in the production of something radically new
1855
01:29:38,873 --> 01:29:41,175
is personal commitment.
1856
01:29:41,175 --> 01:29:42,910
Absolute presence
1857
01:29:42,910 --> 01:29:45,480
through compassion and friendship.
1858
01:29:46,214 --> 01:29:49,283
Gentle bridges, a true dialogue between
1859
01:29:49,283 --> 01:29:51,753
the Western and the Buddhist traditions
1860
01:29:51,753 --> 01:29:53,421
for investigating
1861
01:29:53,421 --> 01:29:55,323
the nature of reality.
1862
01:29:56,357 --> 01:29:58,526
The Dalai Lama continued to push for
1863
01:29:58,526 --> 01:30:00,328
the expansion of dialogue with
1864
01:30:00,328 --> 01:30:01,796
other scientists from many
1865
01:30:01,796 --> 01:30:03,197
other parts of the world.
1866
01:30:03,798 --> 01:30:04,799
From Africa,
1867
01:30:05,700 --> 01:30:07,235
to Japan.
1868
01:30:08,202 --> 01:30:10,338
With Russian scientists,
1869
01:30:10,571 --> 01:30:12,940
and with Chinese scientists.
1870
01:30:12,940 --> 01:30:17,712
Now we are going to have one meeting
1871
01:30:17,712 --> 01:30:20,214
with Chinese scientists.
1872
01:30:20,214 --> 01:30:21,883
This is first time.
1873
01:30:21,883 --> 01:30:24,285
So there is real potential
1874
01:30:24,285 --> 01:30:26,120
Now here we are a few people.
1875
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:30,558
But we are representing billions of people. OK.
1876
01:30:32,460 --> 01:30:34,829
And that's, not academic,
1877
01:30:34,829 --> 01:30:37,899
but world passing through some kind of
1878
01:30:37,899 --> 01:30:40,668
crisis of emotion,
1879
01:30:40,668 --> 01:30:44,105
that emotion will not go,
1880
01:30:44,105 --> 01:30:47,942
go away by prayer
1881
01:30:47,942 --> 01:30:50,044
but training our mind.
1882
01:30:50,778 --> 01:30:53,314
In order to train our mind,
1883
01:30:53,314 --> 01:30:55,483
we should have fuller knowledge
1884
01:30:55,483 --> 01:30:56,884
about the whole system
1885
01:30:56,884 --> 01:30:58,986
of our emotion and mind.
1886
01:30:58,986 --> 01:31:02,757
We will certainly welcome you in Taiwan
1887
01:31:02,757 --> 01:31:05,927
and we are initiating continual discussions
1888
01:31:05,927 --> 01:31:07,862
in Taiwan sometime.
1889
01:31:07,862 --> 01:31:09,630
Thank you.
1890
01:31:12,733 --> 01:31:14,435
On his eightieth birthday,
1891
01:31:14,435 --> 01:31:16,971
the Dalai Lama publicly reaffirmed
1892
01:31:16,971 --> 01:31:18,406
his commitment to stand
1893
01:31:18,406 --> 01:31:20,107
shoulder to shoulder with scientists
1894
01:31:20,107 --> 01:31:22,109
as they tackle the toughest issues
1895
01:31:22,109 --> 01:31:23,644
facing humanity.
1896
01:31:23,644 --> 01:31:25,780
I'm a simple Buddhist monk,
1897
01:31:25,780 --> 01:31:27,682
but at the same time
1898
01:31:27,682 --> 01:31:31,385
eventually I become very close with scientists.
1899
01:31:31,986 --> 01:31:33,554
In our training,
1900
01:31:33,554 --> 01:31:36,491
reason become very important.
1901
01:31:37,225 --> 01:31:39,427
So this scientific way,
1902
01:31:39,427 --> 01:31:40,761
it compels us.
1903
01:31:40,761 --> 01:31:42,363
Now think,
1904
01:31:42,363 --> 01:31:45,466
how to utilize their sort of findings,
1905
01:31:45,466 --> 01:31:47,068
translate into action.
1906
01:31:47,068 --> 01:31:48,636
New ideas.
1907
01:31:48,636 --> 01:31:50,471
New way.
1908
01:31:50,738 --> 01:31:53,140
Scientists really showing,
1909
01:31:54,141 --> 01:31:55,977
I think, genuine interest in
1910
01:31:55,977 --> 01:31:58,779
trying to make a better world.
1911
01:31:58,779 --> 01:32:03,150
So this is the sign of progress.
1912
01:32:05,753 --> 01:32:09,924
So therefore, remain a little bit skeptical.
1913
01:32:09,924 --> 01:32:13,327
Then, skepticism brings doubt.
1914
01:32:13,327 --> 01:32:16,664
Doubt brings investigation.
1915
01:32:17,532 --> 01:32:18,799
Buddha stated,
1916
01:32:18,799 --> 01:32:20,535
all my followers,
1917
01:32:20,535 --> 01:32:22,770
monks, scholars,
1918
01:32:22,770 --> 01:32:25,006
should not accept
1919
01:32:25,006 --> 01:32:30,845
my teaching out of faith, out of devotion,
1920
01:32:30,845 --> 01:32:33,881
but rather thorough investigation
1921
01:32:33,881 --> 01:32:36,050
and experiment.
1922
01:32:36,384 --> 01:32:37,652
Through that way,
1923
01:32:37,652 --> 01:32:38,753
once you're convinced,
1924
01:32:38,753 --> 01:32:41,022
then you accept my teaching.
1925
01:32:41,956 --> 01:32:45,293
So, this is quite, sort of, scientific way.
1926
01:32:45,293 --> 01:32:46,327
So, therefore,
1927
01:32:46,327 --> 01:32:48,362
my body,
1928
01:32:48,362 --> 01:32:49,897
this person,
1929
01:32:49,897 --> 01:32:51,666
half Buddhist monk,
1930
01:32:51,666 --> 01:32:53,935
half scientist.
1931
01:32:54,305 --> 01:33:54,171
Please rate this subtitle at www.osdb.link/74ytc
Help other users to choose the best subtitles
142305
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.