All language subtitles for Defining Moments with OZY_ Dominique Jackson (Full Episode)

- Growing up, I didn't even know what trans was.

It was always, "You're not a girl.

You're not a girl. You're not a girl."

If you brought your heels with , please put them on.

- Black trans woman from Trinidad and Tobago,

that doesn't go over well.

DOMINIQUE JACKSON: Step up. Don't be scared.

I don't bite till after midnigh.

[class laughing]

I did not see a future for myse.

Walking, a lot of times, we don't understand

we carry our emotions with us when we walk.

If you are late for work,

it's gonna be... excuse me. Exc. - [class laughing]

Get out of the way, right?

- Ballroom becomes salvation fo.

DOMINIQUE: When I first put on my hair...

and I realized that I could be ,

there was no going back.

♪ dance music playing ♪

Five, six, seven, eight, walk.

But what I've discovered by walking with my head up

is being able to say, "No.

I don't care what you think abo"

CARLOS WATSON: The most extraordinary lives

follow undefined paths.

To find your voice,

you may need to journey into the unknown.

I'm Carlos Watson, editor of OZY,

and these are Defining Moments.

♪

EDWIN TORRES: I don't know if it's straight o.

DOMINIQUE: Yeah, I like that.

I never thought I would have put my mother on my wall like t.

- Hey. How are you? - Hi, Carlos.

A pleasure. Welcome. - How are you?

- Welcome to my little, little .

CARLOS: Thank you. Beautiful pl. DOMINIQUE: Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. In the spirit of the holidays.

CARLOS: I was gonna say, you're getting ready for Christ.

Is that your favorite holiday?

- Eh, you know, um,

for quite a while I really didn,

get into holidays and stuff lik,

because there was so much more going on.

I really couldn't put up photos.

Like, everyone does. They have ,

but I didn't value my life.

So therefore, I didn't celebratf by putting up my photos.

I was living in survival mode.

CARLOS: What was it like for you growin?

Were you able to be open...

- No. - ...as a trans girl, trans wom?

- I would never have come out

if I was living in Tobago.

Trans people on the islands are murdered.

And there's nothing done.

CARLOS: Was there anyone else growing up on the island,

like, were there any other peope who felt like their gender...

DOMINIQUE: There was this one person...

People on the island treated this person horribly.

Like, they couldn't get into ta. They had no place to live.

I would see people discriminate against them.

I would see people laugh at the.

But this person was so happy.

When you saw them, they weren'tg with their heads down and feeli.

They were walking around, like,

really happy. Like, singing and, and a lot of people would say,

"Oh, they're crazy. They've lost their mind."

But what I've come to realize i, that person had found their tru.

They didn't care what anyone el.

Going through life, growing up,

when it came to understanding m,

I was so excited about my truth

that I thought that everyone should just be like,

"We accept you. We love you. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

For my mother, who is rooted in her church,

in, in her Bible,

she did not understand it.

CAROLE LYONS: My name is Carole.

And Dominique is my son.

My... sorry.

Is my daughter.

My firstborn.

Dominique was a wonderful child.

Loving. Kind.

He was always a performer. He was a great dancer.

DOMINIQUE: I played Wonder Woman.

I didn't want to join the Boy S. I joined the Brownies.

And when I got to a certain age, it was no longer cute

for me to do the girly things.

Now it was like, "Look, this can be kind of seri"

I had an aunt who, every time I opened my mouth,

she would say, "Speak like a boy!

Act like a boy! You're not a girl."

Okay, but, this is where I rela.

- From what age did you feel th?

- It was about when I realized that girls had vaginas

and boys had penises, and I didn't want one.

- So, you're talking, like,

- five, six, seven-- DOMINIQUE: Four.

I remember first asking the que,

"What is this? Why is it here?"

To them, it was like, you're born male.

But to me, it was like, this is.

So, somebody fix it.

- Were you saying this to Mom--

- To my grandmother, but they weren't hearing me.

I was taken out of dance classe, and put into soccer.

I went to church every Sunday, Sunday school.

CAROLE: Religion was very much a part of our lives.

He was very involved with the Anglican church.

He was an acolyte at the time I left Tobago...

in 1986.

My husband and I at the time,

and my three children, we moved to Baltimore, Maryland.

JAYE BREBNOR: Mom came over to the Unites States for a bett,

to prepare a better life for us.

CAROLE: Dominique's grandmother didn't want him to leave Tobago,

so he left him with her.

DOMINIQUE: I'm about to become an acolyte,

so now this is a prestigious thg on the island.

Your child is serving on the al. They're closer to God.

And then the priest,

I started to feel really strange vibes from him.

He took me to the beach,

myself and another acolyte, and I'm thinking,

ooh, everyone else is gonna be ,

because now I'm close to the pr.

To me, it was like being close to a president or something lik.

And so we're in the water, and..

he takes off his shorts.

My priest was not a homosexual. He was a pedophile.

CARLOS: And you were how old at this po?

DOMINIQUE: Eleven, probably.

I cannot tell you if I was penetrated in the water or not.

I just know I felt pain.

I know that things did not feel.

CAROLE: When I heard that...

if I was able to travel,

I'm sure I would have committed.

DOMINIQUE: Religion was always a part of m.

But religion also hurt me.

At those times, I didn't feel le I had any connection to God.

Even though I knew he was there,

I just didn't feel like He lovee or cared for me,

because I was told that I was an abomination for being .

Years later, I got a phone callg that one of the acolytes had pa.

It was from AIDS complications.

And so, when I heard that the priest may have HIV,

in my entire being, all I heard was "run."

"Run."

CARLOS: By age 15,

Dominique had experienced enough fear and abuse

to last a lifetime.

Now, she'd leave the only home she'd ever known

seeking the one thing she neede:

family.

CAROLE: She came here to Baltimore.

I said, "Okay, that's fine. You can stay with me."

And basically, that's when...

let us know about his new lifes.

It was a shock to everybody.

DOMINIQUE: I was being hot in the booty.

Went downtown Baltimore. Snuck away from home.

I needed to find a place that he

find some kind of feeling that I was normal.

I met this guy.

Taller than I was,

and I'm standing there, and I'm like,

"Ah, yeah. We're gonna go out." And then here these people come.

Trans women.

I didn't even know what trans w.

But I'm thinking to myself,

okay, something's different abo,

and I relate to it.

And they're like,

"Oh, you're not dating him."

"I don't know you."

"No, you're not dating him."

They told me he contracted HIV,

and the way that he dealt with t was to do this thing called "gi"

His idea was, someone did it to,

so I'm gonna do it to everyone .

And they held me and they walke.

But they were from ballroom.

Ballroom saved my life that nig.

- For people who've never been to the shows,

take 'em inside.

What were the shows like? - Fantastic.

♪ dance music playing ♪

DOMINIQUE: You could be coming into that br

with all kinds of burdens and t,

and then this person would get ,

and you would see makeup, and you would see hair,

and you just feel this sense of.

♪ dance music playing ♪

It was ballroom, and we were vogueing at night,

and doing runway, and tying sheets around to make.

It was a place for us to just really have community.

It's like, why are you going to?

Because that's where you feel your comfort.

I had found my chosen and prove.

People who were just like me.

CARLOS: Dominique's initiation into the world of ballroom

helped her define what she'd always been feeling.

It also provided sanctuary to l,

as the person she saw in the mi.

JAYE: I found out when I was about 10

that my brother is no longer my.

It's my sister.

So, of course, like any other p,

Mom has rules, standards, guidelines.

If you don't want to live under my household, you know, leave.

And, you know, that's what happd at that point in time.

CAROLE: If you love someone,

it's not about acceptance.

That's how I see it.

In my eyes, it's wrong.

We were taught by my grandmother to always live for the Lord.

That's how we lived.

And there was nothing about bei, or anything like that.

DOMINIQUE: I couldn't go back h, because if I had gone back home,

then I would have to de-transit.

So, because I could not live in my mother's house

as a female at that time,

the voice came back to me. "Run."

I ended up in New York.

♪

- Tyra Allure Ross is who we kn.

You all know her by Dominique J.

So when I say Tyra, I mean Dominique Jackson.

She was a legend. A bona fide legend.

HOST: Miss Tyra Allure.

- MICHAEL ROBERSON: In the house of ballroom commun,

particularly her category,

the trans women are overly made, if you will.

This notion of a Jessica Rabbit,

small waist, big breasts,

and here's this tall, slender wn

who would walk in a club

part the Red Sea like Moses,

have all these little young gayn surrounding her.

Like Janet Jackson, like Naomi ,

Tyra has that same kind of powe.

And when she does it, you would never think

someone like that is struggling with self-esteem issues.

DOMINIQUE: When you came to New, you only knew one place.

Going down to Christopher Stree.

And it was either 42nd Street or Christopher Street.

And this is where we survive.

You remember Tiffany's, right?

Tiffany's was a restaurant that.

you would hang out on Christopher Street all night.

If you had to do sex work or something like that,

you would do your work.

But I used to work at Two Potato and finish the shows,

and everybody would meet up,

the sex workers, the entertaine, and we would come up here,

and come to Tiffany's.

And have breakfast at Tiffany's.

EDWIN: I remember many nights I slept on these benches.

DOMINIQUE: Ah. Well, Central Park was my place to sl.

You slept here. EDWIN: I slept here. Yeah.

DOMINIQUE: Can you believe we survived thi?

MICHAEL: When she came into my life,

must have been like, '97, '98.

Dominique didn't have her green.

Couldn't work as much,

and she was living from post to,

pillar to pillar, sleeping on different people's couches.

DOMINIQUE: In my head, I could just still picture ever,

on the pier vogueing and readin, and it was our place.

You would stay down on the pier. You had community.

You had family.

As soon as you said, "I'm sleeping on the pier,"

someone would say, "Oh, well, I got a wealthy apar,

so you could come over, stay, a, you're gonna be my sister."

When a ballroom person calls you mother, brother,

sister, uncle, auntie... it's d.

The camaraderie and the acknowlt

kind of negates the fact that you're sleeping on the floor.

- So, it's shared. It's very co. - Yeah. It's very communal.

And that's the thing about-- People didn't think, like,

how could you be hanging out in the street

and homeless, and be happy?

And it was like, you had people

that went through the same thinu

and we were there for each othe.

I guess we distracted each other from the--

- From all the pain and sufferi. - Yeah.

CAROLE: I didn't hear from him for a wh.

We didn't know where to look fo.

I would get phone calls that were very, very difficult.

Well, it had to be resentment for her to be calling me,

and just ranting.

DOMINIQUE: The lowest point in my relationship with my mom

was...

I, I--

I told her I hated her.

And I've never, ever...

forgiven myself for that.

I never hated my mother.

I just...

I just wanted to be...

I, I wanted to feel acknowledge.

CAROLE: But I know I did say to her one,

"Don't you ever call me again,

and disrespect me."

[sniffles] Okay.

Thank you.

JAYE: She would call every now and then. I would call, and.

hearing some of the things that she did have to go through.

Dancing in the clubs, or...

you know, whatever else that, y,

she had to do to make ends meet.

DOMINIQUE: Sex work made me feel like I wa.

I was dirt.

- You caught me off guard with . I'm sorry, guys.

- One of the things that's verye

about a lot of trans women is because of trans-phobia,

the thing that's most viable for their economic stability is sex.

DOMINIQUE: The most traumatic part

was having to negotiate with pee

for my body.

And for any girl who has to walk the streets, people don't .

They think that it's a choice, or something like that. No.

We know what can happen to us o.

We're not just going out there and saying we don't care.

And for those of us that go oute and say we don't care,

it's because we don't feel we have any value,

so we just wanna get it over wi.

CARLOS: Trans women of color.

Is that a very different experie than being

a white trans woman?

- Hell, yeah.

The lighter-skinned girls and t,

if you had the nice long hair, you had the light skin, pretty ,

would work clubs like Sally's and Edelweiss.

And it's working in those spaces that you were the safest.

Usually,

the trans women of color would work 14th Street.

There were some times that I never thought

I was never gonna get out of th.

And then realized that I had to get right back into another one.

So, um, I'm still dealing with .

MICHAEL: That area was highly black

and brown trans women

whose bodies were brutalized and murdered,

and there was no outcry not only from the city,

but from the larger white LGBT .

The continued brutalization ands of black and Latina trans women

are not necessarily being experd

as the same as white trans folk.

Black and brown folk are dealing with not only HIV and AIDS,

but other intersections of health disparities.

DOMINIQUE: Between 1993 and the year 2000,

I thought I was HIV positive.

And, um-- - Were you seeking treatment?

- I did not seek treatment, because I didn't want them to c.

In 2000, I got tested,

and I wasn't positive.

And first I was like, happy and,

and I get downstairs and I'm walking up to the 2 tra,

and something hits me.

What if you had just gotten a positive result?

The things that we have been through in life

and to be where we are right no,

we can only be grateful.

Many of us aren't here right no.

Actually, this is where I met my first husband.

- Mm. - He was standing in that vesti.

And I said, "That's gonna be my"

And he was standing right in that vestibule smoking a cigare.

- Mm. - I should have left him there.

[Torres laughs]

I was married from 2011. Uh...

CARLOS: Wow. How did he identify?

DOMINIQUE: All men that I date identify as straight.

A male dating a trans woman

is not a gay male,

but people tend to force that o,

and because when straight men are made to feel like

they're not as masculine as society forces them to be,

and puts all these stereotypes ,

all of a sudden, if you deal wih a trans woman, you're gay.

So now it's like, "Oh, my gosh, all these things in my head.

I'm gonna just kill her."

A lot of the men that kill trann were in relationships with them.

All through the relationship,

he said it was really embarrassm

to have to be with me, and he ft I should be living stealth.

As time went by, I was slowly pushed into a box,

going according to the stereotys

of women in relationships,

which is extremely submissive. Respect your man.

Some black girls are taught that

your man has to be aggressive w.

Or he doesn't love you.

So in a sense,

I thought that his aggression mt

I wasn't being a good woman.

There was an argument every day about me not being obedient.

It was getting to the point where I believed

that this man was gonna hurt me.

For the first time,

the voice came back to me in ye.

"Run."

♪

DOMINIQUE: So, I'm currently in the midst of a divorce.

And I was like, God, you spared my life.

You have a purpose for me.

And right then and there, I started getting into activism.

TONYA ASAPANDA-JOHNSON WALKER: I'm Tonya Asapanda-Johnson Walk.

I am the co-founder of the New k Transgender Advocacy Group.

And I'm also the community affairs officer.

And what we've gotten done this,

we've got a gay and trans panic defense passed,

we've gotten a non-discriminatin act passed this year,

and we've got a ban on conversi. - [all clapping]

DOMINIQUE: Destination Tomorrow is the plae

people of color can come to,

and actually feel like they're being serviced by

people who have actually lived the experiences

that they're going through.

JUNIOR LEBEIJA: I've been shut n from insurance to do my surgery.

When they told me that, I really wanted to commit suici.

If I couldn't be who the fuck I wanted to be,

I would kill myself, and I would jump out that windo,

and end my life.

And through the grace of God,

they called me and said I could get my surgery, which i.

[clapping and cheering]

DOMINIQUE: Thank you for sharing your stor.

Coming into my bottom surgery,

I felt the very same way. I thought that my life was goin.

I was tucked for 21 years.

I did not come out of that G-stg

except it was for a shower,

which I usually cried during,

because I had to wash parts of y that did not belong there.

I tried to cut it off myself...

a few years...

into my transition.

But then I met Dr. Rachel Bluebond-Langner.

And then she told me my surgery date was June 29th,

and like, I'd, like-- life just came right back into .

Like, I--

I really wanted to live again.

CARLOS: The news of this surgery

was life affirming for Dominiqu.

For the first time in her life,

her physical body would fully an

with how she'd always felt insi.

MAN: Oh! Oh, I love you.

You, too. You, too, darlin'. You, too.

I love you. I respect you so mu.

- She is much more determined.

She believes in herself more so.

You begin to see things gradualy fall in place for her.

From the book, to the reality TV show Strut,

to Pose.

- Before the surgery, Pose call,

and I did the first audition.

And I'm just like, oh, dear God.

I have to play this role, but I know I'm not gonna get it.

After surgery, I was not supposed to be in heels.

I still had stitches, and they called for the call-ba.

So we go into the room, and there's Mr. Murphy,

and I was in pain.

I can't even remember everything he asked me,

but he did ask me about my relationship with my mom.

And I said that I loved them ve.

And I understand that I can't fe

to understand me, to comprehend my situation,

so I have to love them from a d.

And everyone in the room was kind of moved by that.

Then they called me and they said I had Pose.

So... [sniffles]

Yeah. You just can't give up. Oh, God.

♪

MICHAEL: When it was announced that she got the role,

ballroom was up in adulation fo.

♪ dance music playing ♪

- Ballroom, we are stepping into the Golden Globes tonight.

♪

CARLOS: Through ballroom, Dominique found community,

and self love.

Now with a role on Pose, she's helped normalize the exise

of the very people and culture that saved her life.

Do you think it's getting bette? Do you think it's changing?

- I hope it's changing, and with a show like Pose,

I believe that the world is cha.

The late '90s, we'd walk through Times Square,

and I would say to them,

"I'm gonna be on a billboard in Times Square."

And they would laugh. They're l, "You're a trans woman, and you'"

And in 2018,

there we were, in Times Square, looking up,

and they had the billboard up.

MICHAEL: So, there's a piece that I wanny

that she's still the same humbl.

But it's put her under much more of a microscope,

so that scares her more.

Coming out of her house a lot of the times,

or walking down the street, again, she's a trans woman,

but now she's out in the world,

I think she's become more fearf.

DOMINIQUE: My visibility was a smack in the

to a lot of people.

So while most celebrities can rd

without security, without anyone with them,

I have to have someone with me.

And that's why I have Edwin.

Through everything, though, that I've gone through,

I'm grateful that

you are here with me.

- I went from security...

- To personal manager.

- To boyfriend.

- You said it. [laughs]

EDWIN: This Christmas is going to be a.

DOMINIQUE: It's going to be your sisters.

EDWIN: My sisters. DOMINIQUE: And all their kids.

EDWIN: My nieces and nephews. DOMINIQUE: And your nieces and .

But you always loved Christmas.

I wasn't able to really celebrate Christmas.

Right before Pose aired, I call.

And I said that, um, I needed her in my life.

CAROLE: One night, I got a phone call.

And when I answered,

it was my child on the other li.

DOMINIQUE: I said that I was going to tele,

and I didn't want us to be at o.

CAROLE: And what was said is,

"You are my firstborn.

There is nothing that will change my love for you."

DOMINIQUE: And that's all I needed to hear.

[elevator dings]

I haven't spent Christmas with y in, like, 20 years.

- Hola, hola! - Hi!

- What's going on? -Hi! [cooing]

Oh, my gosh. You look so beautiful!

You look ama-- - No, you're so good to-- Look .

Look at you. - Oh, my gosh.

So, the last apartment you saw,? - Yes.

- I know it was a disaster, and it was not...

Like, but it was what I could a, and where I lived.

- Yes. - So now, Miss Owings Mills lad.

[laughs] - Oh, we're here!

- Yes. Welcome to my home.

CAROLE: Oh, wow!

Look at here. Oh, my goodness.

DOMINIQUE: Come on. Come on in.

- Oh!

This is beautiful.

- You like it? CAROLE: I do.

Did you put me up there with my stomach so fat?

[all laughing]

DOMINIQUE: This is the wall I want you to .

This is everything that I have .

- That's you?

- This is me with Debra Shaw, the model.

And Gwyneth Paltrow.

Yes, this is Whoopi. And who's ?

CAROLE: That is Lauren herself. You look so much like your aunt.

DOMINIQUE: [laughs] This is the piece de resistance.

CAROLE: Oh, wow!

- And when it's clear, you can see that's Manhattan.

CAROLE: Let's go inside. Let's . DOMINIQUE: [laughs] You're cold.

I know you are. CAROLE: Yes.

JAYE: It's been so long since the family has just

all been together. - Been together. Yes.

- Like, you know, we always talk, you know.

But, all of us being under the same roof for the holidays,

oh, I'm ready. - Oh.

I love you. CAROLE: I love you, too.

[rain pouring]

DOMINIQUE: When I walk through the streets,

I can find myself cowered away.

I even do this a lot at times.

'Cause it's kind of like, it pr.

But what I've discovered,

is I can clear a path

walking down the street,

by walking from my core,

no matter what's in here.

It feels like I accomplished

a lot more than anyone thought .

Hi!

WOMAN: Congratulations on all your suc.

You are big inspiration to a lot of people.

WOMAN 2: Pose!

MICHAEL: Her walking in her truth

and opening that door for others

that are afraid to say it,

yes, I'm definitely, definitely, definitely 100 percent proud of.

WOMAN: My dream! - [laughs] Hi!

- You are amazing!

DOMINIQUE: Oh-- WOMAN 2: How are you?

DOMINIQUE: I'm well. How are yo? WOMAN 2: I'm all right. I'm col-

- I know. - Thank you.

DOMINIQUE: You're welcome. Thank you, love.

- Yes, ballroom was created out of survival.

But I'm hoping she gets to a ple

when she understands that she has a divine right

to not survive,

but to thrive and live.

- My child always show

that extreme potential,

and I am sure that I don't know half of her pain and torture

getting to where she is today.

CARLOS: For some communities,

survival itself is often considd a success story.

But Dominique has surpassed even the boldest of expectation,

rising from her own anguish,

and transforming a life of strue into one of triumph.

DOMINIQUE: I feel like I really worked har.

I feel like I should celebrate

the fact that I didn't give up.

But I almost did.

And right now, everyone is fighting for equality and right.

The MeToo movement, Black Lives Matter, Trans Lives.

We are the majority.

All of us, in our little segregated corners,

calling ourselves minorities.

When we march together, we are the majority.

We have to stop with this judgm,

and tough love.

Right? It's not tough love.

There is another path. There is another way.

All I was trying to do was live,

and be the best me, and prove to my mother

that being trans did not mean that I was some degenerate.

So for parents to be able to instill in their children, ".

there are these types of people in the world,"

then you are arming your childrn with knowledge.

CAROLE: She's alive, and whatever was broken,

we can mend.

I'm growing daily.

I am growing daily.

DOMINIQUE: I really would love to adopt,

and I want my kids to be able to experience

what my mother did for me, which was help make me this per.

Not about the aesthetic, but about the mindset.

And that mindset is love.

♪