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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:03,304 --> 00:00:06,040 [sombre instrumental music] 2 00:00:21,989 --> 00:00:23,491 [indistinct voices] 3 00:00:44,512 --> 00:00:46,180 [frog ribbiting] 4 00:01:01,195 --> 00:01:03,397 [indistinct dispatch over radio] 5 00:01:34,094 --> 00:01:35,829 [female 911 operator] 6 00:01:36,530 --> 00:01:39,267 [woman speaking] 7 00:01:42,636 --> 00:01:43,804 [operator] Uh-huh. 8 00:01:45,173 --> 00:01:47,107 [woman speaking] 9 00:01:49,343 --> 00:01:50,644 [operator speaking] 10 00:01:51,545 --> 00:01:52,980 [woman speaking] 11 00:01:53,013 --> 00:01:53,981 [operator speaking] 12 00:01:54,014 --> 00:01:55,015 [woman speaking] 13 00:01:55,048 --> 00:01:56,049 [operator speaking] 14 00:01:56,083 --> 00:01:57,084 [woman speaking] 15 00:01:57,117 --> 00:01:58,586 [operator speaking] 16 00:01:58,619 --> 00:01:59,987 [woman speaking] 17 00:02:00,020 --> 00:02:02,856 [operator speaking] 18 00:02:09,597 --> 00:02:12,266 [Nate] News in Idaho falls is kinda slow. 19 00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:14,702 Not a lot of big things happen here. 20 00:02:18,539 --> 00:02:20,341 I had only been here a few weeks, 21 00:02:20,374 --> 00:02:24,678 when this case, the biggest story of my career, 22 00:02:25,179 --> 00:02:26,280 happened. 23 00:02:34,988 --> 00:02:36,324 [Frank] It just didn't make sense 24 00:02:36,357 --> 00:02:38,292 to not find anything. 25 00:02:38,326 --> 00:02:41,662 Footprints, pieces of flesh, pieces of clothing. 26 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:49,603 [Steve] Oh, it's-- it's troubling. 27 00:02:49,637 --> 00:02:53,140 You know, I got, you know, members of my search and rescue unit 28 00:02:53,173 --> 00:02:54,875 that aren't sleeping too well. 29 00:03:13,927 --> 00:03:17,431 [Nate] This is a small town in Idaho called Leadore. 30 00:03:20,668 --> 00:03:24,372 It's remote. Your cell phone is going in and out. 31 00:03:26,006 --> 00:03:27,675 You're on a gravel road at first, 32 00:03:27,708 --> 00:03:29,577 but then it turns very rocky. 33 00:03:29,610 --> 00:03:32,513 And when I say rocky, I mean big boulders. 34 00:03:34,815 --> 00:03:37,017 [Frank] You need to drive maybe five miles an hour 35 00:03:37,050 --> 00:03:38,386 and that's safe. 36 00:03:38,419 --> 00:03:40,721 And it's just real rocky. Takes a long time 37 00:03:40,754 --> 00:03:44,325 to travel the short distance from the town of Leadore 38 00:03:44,358 --> 00:03:46,494 to the campground. 39 00:03:46,527 --> 00:03:49,863 [Steve] Once you leave the pavement, I think it's 40 00:03:49,897 --> 00:03:55,369 a little over seven miles of pretty rough road. 41 00:03:56,937 --> 00:03:59,440 [Nate] Once you reach the campsite to where they were at, 42 00:03:59,473 --> 00:04:01,775 the Timber Creek Campground, 43 00:04:01,809 --> 00:04:03,711 it kind of just dead ends. 44 00:04:09,550 --> 00:04:11,852 And you get out and there's the campsite, 45 00:04:11,885 --> 00:04:14,388 there's the table, there's a fire pit. 46 00:04:14,422 --> 00:04:15,923 Ten-twenty feet away, 47 00:04:15,956 --> 00:04:18,759 there's a steep hill that goes to the creek. 48 00:04:22,129 --> 00:04:24,598 [Steve] It's a combination of 49 00:04:24,632 --> 00:04:27,935 willowy, swampy, creek bottoms, 50 00:04:29,269 --> 00:04:31,605 steep hillsides, some of 'em... 51 00:04:32,740 --> 00:04:34,141 sage brush, some of them timber. 52 00:04:34,174 --> 00:04:35,409 Lot of rock. 53 00:04:37,611 --> 00:04:39,347 [Nate] They arrived at the campground 54 00:04:39,380 --> 00:04:43,351 late on the evening of July 9th, Thursday evening. 55 00:04:43,384 --> 00:04:45,519 It was very late, it was dark. 56 00:04:45,553 --> 00:04:47,721 They say they instantly went to bed. 57 00:04:49,289 --> 00:04:52,460 From day one, law enforcement told us 58 00:04:52,493 --> 00:04:55,429 that all of the people at the campsite 59 00:04:55,463 --> 00:04:57,431 were considered persons of interests 60 00:04:57,465 --> 00:04:59,533 just because they were simply there. 61 00:05:00,668 --> 00:05:03,070 DeOrr Sr and Jessica Mitchell, 62 00:05:03,103 --> 00:05:04,705 the parents of young DeOrr, 63 00:05:04,738 --> 00:05:07,240 Grandpa, Jessica's grandpa, 64 00:05:07,274 --> 00:05:09,610 And another man named Isaac Reinwand, 65 00:05:09,643 --> 00:05:11,779 who was a friend of Grandpa 66 00:05:11,812 --> 00:05:13,647 who apparently at the last minute 67 00:05:13,681 --> 00:05:15,716 decided to go camping with them. 68 00:05:17,685 --> 00:05:19,687 [Jamie] It was dark when they got there. 69 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,422 DeOrr said they parked the truck 70 00:05:21,455 --> 00:05:24,291 parked the trailer in the Suburban. 71 00:05:24,324 --> 00:05:26,226 Issac pitched his tent, 72 00:05:26,259 --> 00:05:28,596 they got Grandpa settled in the camp trailer, 73 00:05:28,629 --> 00:05:30,197 they slept in the back of the Suburban. 74 00:05:30,230 --> 00:05:32,299 Got up the next morning, and then he realized 75 00:05:32,332 --> 00:05:34,802 how rural it was. 76 00:05:34,835 --> 00:05:37,771 You know, they were basically at the end of the road. 77 00:05:37,805 --> 00:05:39,473 Thought it was a pretty safe place. 78 00:05:39,507 --> 00:05:41,842 You know? Cliffs kinda all the way around, 79 00:05:41,875 --> 00:05:44,344 not really any way for him to get out. 80 00:05:44,378 --> 00:05:45,646 You know? 81 00:05:47,915 --> 00:05:50,751 The next morning, July 10th, Friday, 82 00:05:50,784 --> 00:05:51,952 they wake up, 83 00:05:51,985 --> 00:05:55,022 they're hanging around in the campsite. 84 00:05:55,055 --> 00:05:57,791 [Kelsey] They had gone into Leadore, to the store, 85 00:05:57,825 --> 00:06:00,494 because Jessica needed feminine products, 86 00:06:00,528 --> 00:06:02,362 They went in there and they bought, 87 00:06:02,396 --> 00:06:03,731 you know, just that stuff 88 00:06:03,764 --> 00:06:05,365 and then some candy and stuff for the little man. 89 00:06:05,399 --> 00:06:07,034 [Frank] Jessica goes to the bathroom, 90 00:06:07,067 --> 00:06:08,569 as the boys loaded up. 91 00:06:08,602 --> 00:06:11,038 And they return to the campground. 92 00:06:13,974 --> 00:06:15,876 So they get to the campground, 93 00:06:15,909 --> 00:06:19,613 this Isaac and the grandfather Bob 94 00:06:19,647 --> 00:06:21,181 said, "We got some fish." 95 00:06:21,214 --> 00:06:23,016 And he showed the fish to DeOrr, 96 00:06:23,050 --> 00:06:26,620 and DeOrr supposedly says, "I ain't believing you caught those fish in the stream. 97 00:06:26,654 --> 00:06:28,856 I can't believe it. Show me where you got 'em." 98 00:06:30,658 --> 00:06:33,694 So Jessica and DeOrr with this Issac 99 00:06:33,727 --> 00:06:36,764 go towards the creek, which is maybe 100 feet away. 100 00:06:36,797 --> 00:06:38,732 [Nate] They say to little DeOrr, 101 00:06:38,766 --> 00:06:41,368 "Do you wanna come with us?" 102 00:06:41,401 --> 00:06:44,872 According to law enforcement, little DeOrr follows them for a point, 103 00:06:44,905 --> 00:06:48,375 but then turns around and goes back. 104 00:06:48,408 --> 00:06:52,446 The parents continue on assuming that Grandpa is watching DeOrr. 105 00:06:53,246 --> 00:06:54,648 And Jessica tells me, 106 00:06:54,682 --> 00:06:56,550 she keeps looking back over her shoulder 107 00:06:56,584 --> 00:06:59,553 to make sure the little boy is not following them. 108 00:06:59,587 --> 00:07:01,955 And when she was confident he wasn't following, 109 00:07:01,989 --> 00:07:03,957 they went to the two spots along the creek 110 00:07:03,991 --> 00:07:07,194 where they supposedly caught the fish. 111 00:07:07,227 --> 00:07:10,631 [Kelsey] They went down there probably 10-15 minutes, 112 00:07:10,664 --> 00:07:12,299 and then they saw minnows. 113 00:07:12,332 --> 00:07:15,335 And they were gonna go back to camp and get little man, 114 00:07:15,368 --> 00:07:16,737 because he loves fish. 115 00:07:16,770 --> 00:07:19,439 He loves bugs... stuff like that. 116 00:07:19,473 --> 00:07:21,609 And so, they went back up there 117 00:07:21,642 --> 00:07:24,211 and DeOrr looks at Bob and says, 118 00:07:24,244 --> 00:07:25,646 "Where's little DeOrr?" 119 00:07:25,679 --> 00:07:27,915 And Bob says, "He was right here." 120 00:07:27,948 --> 00:07:31,084 "Where's little DeOrr?" And Grandpa says, "He's right there." 121 00:07:31,118 --> 00:07:32,920 Of course he's not there. 122 00:07:32,953 --> 00:07:35,689 Grandfather claims he didn't go inside his trailer. 123 00:07:35,723 --> 00:07:37,424 But I believe he did. 124 00:07:37,457 --> 00:07:41,194 Police say that Issac Reinwand at this time is down at the creek, fishing. 125 00:07:41,228 --> 00:07:42,530 They say they panic. 126 00:07:42,563 --> 00:07:44,865 They do a search of the immediate campground. 127 00:07:44,898 --> 00:07:46,634 They look wherever they can. 128 00:07:46,667 --> 00:07:48,068 [Kelsey] Craziness started. Everybody's... 129 00:07:48,101 --> 00:07:50,003 I mean, they started yelling, they started searching. 130 00:07:50,037 --> 00:07:52,172 They searched for about 15 to 20 minutes. 131 00:07:52,205 --> 00:07:53,340 No sign of them. 132 00:07:53,373 --> 00:07:56,076 Then it's decided they better call 911. 133 00:07:56,109 --> 00:07:58,812 It's a remote area, you can't get cell phone service. 134 00:07:58,846 --> 00:08:01,682 Jessica says miraculously she got a signal. 135 00:08:01,715 --> 00:08:04,384 [Jessica over phone] Um, my two-year-old son... 136 00:08:04,417 --> 00:08:06,219 um, we can't find him. 137 00:08:06,253 --> 00:08:07,621 DeOrr hops into his truck, 138 00:08:07,655 --> 00:08:09,857 goes down the road to see if he can get better service. 139 00:08:09,890 --> 00:08:12,059 Both of them were on the phone 140 00:08:12,092 --> 00:08:13,193 with 911 at the same time. 141 00:08:13,226 --> 00:08:16,229 You know, "My son's missing. Can you help us?" 142 00:08:16,263 --> 00:08:19,533 And then it's just all been chaos from there. 143 00:08:37,585 --> 00:08:38,952 [radio jockey] Good evening, everyone. 144 00:08:38,986 --> 00:08:41,254 You're in the right place, at the right time. 145 00:08:41,288 --> 00:08:43,691 This is Coast to Cost AM. 146 00:08:43,724 --> 00:08:45,993 Tonight, we plunge once again, 147 00:08:46,026 --> 00:08:49,462 into the deep end of the paranormal pool. 148 00:08:49,496 --> 00:08:54,034 Hundreds of people vanish from our national parks and forests. 149 00:08:54,067 --> 00:08:57,871 Some right under the noses of parents or family members, 150 00:08:57,905 --> 00:09:01,775 under very unusual, but very similar circumstances. 151 00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:08,081 Dave Paulides, welcome back to the program. 152 00:09:08,115 --> 00:09:09,717 [David] Thanks for having me, George. 153 00:09:09,750 --> 00:09:11,752 [George] All right, Dave, I wanna jump right into this. 154 00:09:11,785 --> 00:09:14,521 DeOrr Kunz, two-years-old. 155 00:09:14,554 --> 00:09:15,689 I mean, you were a cop. 156 00:09:15,723 --> 00:09:17,324 If you were investigating this case, 157 00:09:17,357 --> 00:09:20,994 abduction is one of the least likely events, right? 158 00:09:21,028 --> 00:09:22,896 [David] I would probably say yes. 159 00:09:22,930 --> 00:09:24,665 And the reason for that is, 160 00:09:24,698 --> 00:09:26,834 is that the family was in a campground, 161 00:09:26,867 --> 00:09:28,268 deep into the mountains. 162 00:09:28,301 --> 00:09:32,139 There was one very rocky, rough road going in, 163 00:09:32,172 --> 00:09:34,074 and the same road out. 164 00:09:34,107 --> 00:09:36,276 If someone would have driven into that area, 165 00:09:36,309 --> 00:09:38,145 you would think that the family would have heard him. 166 00:09:38,178 --> 00:09:40,080 And if they would've walked up to the campsite, 167 00:09:40,113 --> 00:09:42,349 they for sure would have been seen. 168 00:09:42,382 --> 00:09:45,252 [George] It's like, it's like in so many of the other cases. 169 00:09:45,285 --> 00:09:47,120 It's like he's plucked out of the sky. 170 00:09:47,154 --> 00:09:49,556 It's like just snatched out of the sky. 171 00:09:49,589 --> 00:09:51,224 [David] That case is very reminiscent 172 00:09:51,258 --> 00:09:53,160 of a case that happened decades earlier 173 00:09:53,193 --> 00:09:55,763 just outside of Estes Park, Colorado. 174 00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:58,932 [forest sounds] 175 00:10:03,603 --> 00:10:05,673 [boy humming] 176 00:10:23,456 --> 00:10:25,793 [continues humming] 177 00:10:47,781 --> 00:10:50,250 St. Malo is... Purely for Catholics, 178 00:10:50,283 --> 00:10:53,386 it's one of the most visited placed in the Estes Valley. 179 00:10:54,521 --> 00:10:57,024 Up on the hill you have the statue of Christ. 180 00:10:57,925 --> 00:10:59,459 Then right below that, 181 00:10:59,492 --> 00:11:01,328 is St. Catherine's chapel. 182 00:11:05,032 --> 00:11:06,834 The story of St. Malo is really wonderful. 183 00:11:06,867 --> 00:11:11,604 It goes back to a man named Father Joseph Pascetti, 184 00:11:11,638 --> 00:11:14,041 who was a Catholic priest. 185 00:11:14,541 --> 00:11:17,510 One day, in 1916, 186 00:11:17,544 --> 00:11:19,813 he came up to Tahosa Valley, 187 00:11:19,847 --> 00:11:22,850 and he and two or three others were camping 188 00:11:22,883 --> 00:11:25,052 on the slopes of Mount Meeker, 189 00:11:25,085 --> 00:11:28,255 when they saw a meteor in the sky. 190 00:11:28,288 --> 00:11:30,457 They got up, 191 00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:34,561 wandered toward the meteor hoping they'd found where it came down, 192 00:11:34,594 --> 00:11:36,329 and ended up standing on the rock 193 00:11:36,363 --> 00:11:39,332 where St. Catherine's Chapel is located. 194 00:11:39,366 --> 00:11:42,669 And Father Pascetti said this would be a good place for a boys' camp, 195 00:11:42,702 --> 00:11:44,772 and the rest is history. 196 00:11:45,572 --> 00:11:47,975 I'm the caretaker here, 197 00:11:48,008 --> 00:11:51,779 at St. Catherine of Siena's Chapel on the Rock. 198 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,115 This was built 1935 199 00:11:55,148 --> 00:11:58,819 as a chapel for camp kids for all those years. 200 00:11:58,852 --> 00:12:00,788 Lots of camp kids came here. 201 00:12:01,955 --> 00:12:06,593 And 1973, I came up here and became a camp counselor 202 00:12:06,626 --> 00:12:09,262 at camp St. Malo, and loved the outdoors. 203 00:12:10,397 --> 00:12:13,233 Every week, the kids would go on hikes. 204 00:12:14,301 --> 00:12:17,304 There was an easy, medium and hard hike. 205 00:12:17,337 --> 00:12:19,739 And we'd have bonfire and lodge night, 206 00:12:19,773 --> 00:12:22,409 where we did skits and sang songs and... 207 00:12:22,442 --> 00:12:24,444 The camaraderie was awesome. 208 00:12:34,087 --> 00:12:36,289 [man] It's August, it's a warm summer month. 209 00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:40,027 Bobby Bizup was a ten-year-old camper. 210 00:12:40,060 --> 00:12:42,762 He was partially deaf, wore a hearing aid. 211 00:12:43,663 --> 00:12:45,065 And he liked to fish. 212 00:12:46,199 --> 00:12:48,568 Well, on August 15th, at about 6:00 p.m. 213 00:12:48,601 --> 00:12:51,571 Bobby was fishing in the small creek behind the retreat, 214 00:12:51,604 --> 00:12:55,275 when a counselor approached him and told him it was dinner time. 215 00:12:55,308 --> 00:12:57,110 Bobby acknowledged the counselor 216 00:12:57,144 --> 00:12:59,779 and started to follow him downhill towards the retreat. 217 00:13:01,348 --> 00:13:03,016 As the counselor was walking back, 218 00:13:03,050 --> 00:13:04,885 he turned behind him to look, 219 00:13:05,418 --> 00:13:06,987 and Bobby was gone. 220 00:13:15,028 --> 00:13:16,429 And that's when the search started. 221 00:13:17,430 --> 00:13:19,599 St. Malo Retreat and the summer camp 222 00:13:19,632 --> 00:13:23,670 is right on the border of Rocky Mountain National Park. 223 00:13:23,703 --> 00:13:27,107 Within four days there were 400 searches from the National Park Service, 224 00:13:27,140 --> 00:13:30,043 local sheriffs, volunteers and SAR experts. 225 00:13:30,077 --> 00:13:32,079 Officials were difficult to understand 226 00:13:32,112 --> 00:13:33,746 how Bobby could get lost 227 00:13:33,780 --> 00:13:36,850 because it's straight downhill on a very defined trail to the retreat. 228 00:13:37,951 --> 00:13:39,252 During the height of the search, 229 00:13:39,286 --> 00:13:41,922 the civil air patrol dropped 5,000 leaflets 230 00:13:41,955 --> 00:13:43,756 over 200 square miles, 231 00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:46,559 which were telling Bobby that his parents loved him and they needed him. 232 00:13:55,302 --> 00:13:58,571 On August 25th, the formal search was terminated 233 00:13:58,605 --> 00:14:00,974 after a nine day effort. 234 00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:08,949 Now, there were three counselors 235 00:14:08,982 --> 00:14:11,218 that were looking for Bobby that entire time, 236 00:14:11,251 --> 00:14:14,021 and the following year they returned. 237 00:14:14,054 --> 00:14:16,289 And one day, they walked up the side of Mount Meeker, 238 00:14:16,323 --> 00:14:17,891 right through the boulder field, 239 00:14:17,925 --> 00:14:20,360 about 2,000 feet up from the retreat, 240 00:14:20,393 --> 00:14:22,129 and saw a hearing aid, 241 00:14:22,162 --> 00:14:24,231 and bits of clothing. 242 00:14:26,366 --> 00:14:28,501 They found Bobby Bizup's remains. 243 00:14:38,011 --> 00:14:39,879 And they found him in a ravine, 244 00:14:39,913 --> 00:14:41,949 up on the face of Mount Meeker, 245 00:14:41,982 --> 00:14:43,783 which is right here, 246 00:14:43,816 --> 00:14:45,885 along Cabin Creek. 247 00:14:45,919 --> 00:14:48,788 He was in a ravine that they had searched 248 00:14:48,821 --> 00:14:51,258 at least three times the year before. 249 00:14:54,327 --> 00:14:57,430 [man] Make no mistake, Bobby could not have been lost. 250 00:14:57,464 --> 00:14:59,766 Uphill, the Meeker is an exhausting 251 00:14:59,799 --> 00:15:01,501 and treacherous hiking spots. 252 00:15:01,534 --> 00:15:05,472 Downhill to the retreat is dinner and an easy hike. 253 00:15:05,505 --> 00:15:08,108 [George] You mentioned that Bobby is hearing impaired. 254 00:15:08,141 --> 00:15:09,576 When you look at the big picture 255 00:15:09,609 --> 00:15:11,678 in the number of cases that you have investigated, 256 00:15:11,711 --> 00:15:15,648 the fact that he's impaired is almost as if that's one of the factors 257 00:15:15,682 --> 00:15:17,284 on why they're targeted. 258 00:15:17,317 --> 00:15:18,818 [David] George, that's an interesting point. 259 00:15:18,851 --> 00:15:23,023 It seems as though an abnormal number of these people 260 00:15:23,056 --> 00:15:25,658 disappear with some type of physical impairment, 261 00:15:25,692 --> 00:15:28,028 or genetic deficiency. 262 00:15:31,298 --> 00:15:34,801 So Bobby's case happened August 15th, 1958. 263 00:15:34,834 --> 00:15:36,436 These go back decades. 264 00:15:36,469 --> 00:15:39,572 But even today it's happening as we speak. 265 00:15:46,079 --> 00:15:48,915 It's the third night an Idaho Falls family 266 00:15:48,948 --> 00:15:50,817 is spending without their son. 267 00:15:50,850 --> 00:15:52,919 More than 10,000 man hours have been put 268 00:15:52,952 --> 00:15:54,821 into trying to find a missing toddler 269 00:15:54,854 --> 00:15:56,223 in Lemhi County. 270 00:15:56,256 --> 00:15:58,058 [man] A lot of facts didn't add up. 271 00:15:58,091 --> 00:15:59,692 I just... I don't know. 272 00:16:00,660 --> 00:16:02,095 The day before-- 273 00:16:02,129 --> 00:16:04,597 [reporter] It's a disappearance that has many scratching their heads. 274 00:16:04,631 --> 00:16:06,199 Ten miles west of Leadore, 275 00:16:06,233 --> 00:16:08,335 this campground was the last place 276 00:16:08,368 --> 00:16:11,238 anyone saw two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr. 277 00:16:11,971 --> 00:16:14,007 [Steve] A child that age, 278 00:16:14,041 --> 00:16:17,844 75% of them are found within four tenths of a mile 279 00:16:17,877 --> 00:16:19,879 of the place last seen. 280 00:16:19,912 --> 00:16:23,550 I mean, you look at the terrain and it's extremely rugged, 281 00:16:23,583 --> 00:16:26,719 but they can go further than you think would be reasonable. 282 00:16:28,121 --> 00:16:30,223 [interviewer speaking] 283 00:16:31,024 --> 00:16:32,859 I sent a deputy up there, 284 00:16:32,892 --> 00:16:35,062 activated Search and Rescue. 285 00:16:35,095 --> 00:16:37,264 [Frank] The sheriff within a few hours 286 00:16:37,297 --> 00:16:38,531 he had several searchers 287 00:16:38,565 --> 00:16:40,433 who were searching for this boy. 288 00:16:41,701 --> 00:16:42,769 Wt find him. 289 00:16:43,436 --> 00:16:45,338 We used dogs 290 00:16:45,372 --> 00:16:48,108 to start with some ground searchers. 291 00:16:48,141 --> 00:16:50,143 To start with, uh... 292 00:16:51,078 --> 00:16:52,879 Helicopter came in. 293 00:16:52,912 --> 00:16:54,614 Top notch crew. 294 00:16:54,647 --> 00:16:58,585 I mean, the had flare which is forward looking infrared for night. 295 00:16:58,618 --> 00:17:00,220 This is all these guys do. 296 00:17:00,253 --> 00:17:02,722 This type of stuff, search and rescue. 297 00:17:04,057 --> 00:17:07,026 I wanna spread everybody out in one long chain. 298 00:17:07,060 --> 00:17:08,328 As wide as we can get. 299 00:17:08,361 --> 00:17:10,430 I mean, from hilltop to hilltop, 300 00:17:10,463 --> 00:17:12,365 we gonna walk the main street high. 301 00:17:12,399 --> 00:17:14,767 I wanna cover every little nook and cranny, 302 00:17:14,801 --> 00:17:16,769 cover every log... 303 00:17:16,803 --> 00:17:20,173 Anything that looks turned over, check it out. 304 00:17:20,207 --> 00:17:23,676 I was 90 to 100 miles an hour driving around people, 305 00:17:23,710 --> 00:17:26,646 you know, just acting like a maniac to get up there. 306 00:17:26,679 --> 00:17:29,382 I thought it's gonna be really foolish when I get up there 307 00:17:29,416 --> 00:17:31,251 and get out of the car and he's right there. 308 00:17:31,284 --> 00:17:34,254 You know, and I got out of the car and that wasn't what happened. 309 00:17:36,022 --> 00:17:37,224 You know, everyone said 310 00:17:37,257 --> 00:17:39,626 take five steps, look up, look down, look around. 311 00:17:39,659 --> 00:17:42,129 Take five steps, look up, look down and around. 312 00:17:42,162 --> 00:17:43,296 And that's what we do. 313 00:17:43,330 --> 00:17:45,965 I mean, there's a lot of area up there. 314 00:17:45,998 --> 00:17:47,267 There is people everywhere. 315 00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:49,602 I mean, there was 200 plus searchers up there, 316 00:17:49,636 --> 00:17:51,704 the day after he went missing on Saturday. 317 00:17:51,738 --> 00:17:53,840 You know, there was people everywhere. 318 00:17:58,945 --> 00:18:01,148 [Nate] Maybe he fell into the creek. 319 00:18:01,181 --> 00:18:03,383 That creek, Search and rescue crews 320 00:18:03,416 --> 00:18:05,152 went through on their hands and feet, 321 00:18:05,185 --> 00:18:07,887 with poles, literally crawling through that creek. 322 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:08,955 Nothing. 323 00:18:08,988 --> 00:18:11,057 I suppose they check wolf dens, 324 00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:12,992 they check bear dens, 325 00:18:13,025 --> 00:18:14,461 they check eagle nests. 326 00:18:14,494 --> 00:18:17,096 Because an eagle could pick up 30 pounds. 327 00:18:17,130 --> 00:18:20,400 Little DeOrr weighed approximately 27-28 pounds. 328 00:18:20,433 --> 00:18:22,135 There are bears in the area. 329 00:18:22,169 --> 00:18:24,837 There's bobcats, there's mountain lions. 330 00:18:24,871 --> 00:18:26,439 There's other animals. 331 00:18:26,473 --> 00:18:30,410 But there would be some sort of clothing, 332 00:18:30,443 --> 00:18:33,480 or a bone, or something, you would think. 333 00:18:33,513 --> 00:18:36,716 There's no clothing, there's no flesh 334 00:18:36,749 --> 00:18:39,152 or anything that would indicate that an animal got him. 335 00:18:39,186 --> 00:18:41,754 There's no blood, there's nothing there. 336 00:18:41,788 --> 00:18:43,856 [interviewer speaking] 337 00:18:45,625 --> 00:18:48,295 You know, you think you would find something. 338 00:18:48,328 --> 00:18:51,164 You're talking about the trace you're looking for, 339 00:18:51,198 --> 00:18:53,065 or maybe a boot came off. 340 00:18:53,099 --> 00:18:55,835 Well, they were camouflage cowboy boots. 341 00:18:55,868 --> 00:18:57,304 You know, the thing of it is, 342 00:18:57,337 --> 00:18:59,606 everything there at that time of the year's that tall. 343 00:18:59,639 --> 00:19:01,140 You know... 344 00:19:01,674 --> 00:19:03,343 Same size as him. 345 00:19:06,012 --> 00:19:07,680 It's possible. 346 00:19:09,482 --> 00:19:11,984 [Jamie] This little boot is similar... 347 00:19:12,018 --> 00:19:13,886 Actually this is the exact boot, 348 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,755 maybe just a couple sizes bigger, 349 00:19:15,788 --> 00:19:19,259 that DeOrr was wearing the day he went missing. 350 00:19:20,193 --> 00:19:22,262 I can tell you from experience, 351 00:19:22,295 --> 00:19:24,464 that these boots don't stay on real good. 352 00:19:24,497 --> 00:19:26,599 My grandson kicks them off in the car seat 353 00:19:26,633 --> 00:19:28,268 every time we put him in there. 354 00:19:29,902 --> 00:19:32,071 They were too big for him, so they were sloppy, 355 00:19:32,104 --> 00:19:34,106 and he was clumsy anyway. 356 00:19:34,140 --> 00:19:36,643 When he would walk, he'd just walk clumsily. 357 00:19:36,676 --> 00:19:39,846 Somebody picked him up, the cowboy boot must have fallen off his feet. 358 00:19:39,879 --> 00:19:41,681 So if these were the boots 359 00:19:41,714 --> 00:19:45,117 that DeOrr was wearing that day and they were too big, 360 00:19:45,151 --> 00:19:47,186 certainly if an animal would have grabbed him, 361 00:19:47,220 --> 00:19:49,055 even if somebody else had abducted him, 362 00:19:49,088 --> 00:19:51,924 I think we would have found... something. 363 00:19:52,759 --> 00:19:54,927 The boots, his jacket... 364 00:19:56,463 --> 00:19:58,798 Something would be found up there. 365 00:20:01,868 --> 00:20:04,837 We went for three or four days without any sleep. 366 00:20:04,871 --> 00:20:06,439 And I got to the point where 367 00:20:06,473 --> 00:20:08,808 I was an emotional mess. 368 00:20:17,016 --> 00:20:18,651 You gotta have a twofold investigation. 369 00:20:18,685 --> 00:20:21,020 You gotta think the search, that's good. 370 00:20:21,053 --> 00:20:22,322 Then you can't find anything, 371 00:20:22,355 --> 00:20:24,357 then you start focusing on the parents. 372 00:20:24,391 --> 00:20:28,761 Then you focus on people, who else were in the camp around at that time. 373 00:20:28,795 --> 00:20:30,730 And so now they're coming down hard 374 00:20:30,763 --> 00:20:32,098 on Jessica and DeOrr. 375 00:20:32,131 --> 00:20:33,500 Try to play one against the other 376 00:20:33,533 --> 00:20:35,635 to see if one's gonna tell. 377 00:20:35,668 --> 00:20:37,704 Law enforcement continually told us 378 00:20:37,737 --> 00:20:40,573 that all of the individuals were being cooperative. 379 00:20:40,607 --> 00:20:42,909 They were all questioned individually, 380 00:20:42,942 --> 00:20:44,210 and together. 381 00:20:44,243 --> 00:20:46,212 And they were working with them. 382 00:20:46,245 --> 00:20:49,248 There wasn't any sort of red flag 383 00:20:49,282 --> 00:20:50,617 that police were saying 384 00:20:50,650 --> 00:20:53,786 that were pointing them toward one specific individual. 385 00:20:53,820 --> 00:20:56,289 You know, I've had to grab her by the hand 386 00:20:56,323 --> 00:20:58,458 and go for walks with her and say, 387 00:20:58,491 --> 00:21:00,293 "You just have to promise me, 388 00:21:00,327 --> 00:21:02,128 if there's anything that's going on, 389 00:21:02,161 --> 00:21:03,763 you gotta talk to me, you gotta tell me." 390 00:21:03,796 --> 00:21:06,333 You know, and those conversations 391 00:21:06,366 --> 00:21:08,234 have been very clear and straightforward, 392 00:21:08,267 --> 00:21:12,271 and she's come back and said, "Mom, I don't know why you're doing this to me. 393 00:21:12,305 --> 00:21:14,006 I didn't have anything to do with this." 394 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,015 [Nate] DeOrr Sr. and Jessica Mitchell, 395 00:21:23,049 --> 00:21:24,517 the parents of young DeOrr, 396 00:21:24,551 --> 00:21:28,655 came into our studios and looked upset. 397 00:21:28,688 --> 00:21:30,790 They looked like they had been wearing the same clothing 398 00:21:30,823 --> 00:21:32,792 that they were wearing when they were camping. 399 00:21:32,825 --> 00:21:33,793 A hoodie... 400 00:21:33,826 --> 00:21:36,228 She was carrying DeOrr's blanket. 401 00:21:36,262 --> 00:21:37,930 It was dirty, it was ragged, 402 00:21:37,964 --> 00:21:39,966 it hadn't been washed. And a teddy bear. 403 00:21:39,999 --> 00:21:42,201 One of his little toys. 404 00:21:42,234 --> 00:21:45,472 We sat down, and as I do with any interview, 405 00:21:45,505 --> 00:21:47,540 especially with a distraught parent, 406 00:21:47,574 --> 00:21:49,476 you wanna show compassion and kindness. 407 00:21:49,509 --> 00:21:51,378 But you also wanna find out if they 408 00:21:51,411 --> 00:21:54,246 might have anything to do with his disappearance. 409 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,115 All right, DeOrr, so take us back... 410 00:21:56,148 --> 00:21:58,418 Was it Friday? 411 00:21:58,451 --> 00:21:59,852 I'm not sure what day it is today. 412 00:21:59,886 --> 00:22:01,821 -Today's Monday. It was Friday. -Yeah. It was Friday. 413 00:22:01,854 --> 00:22:03,089 Friday about... 414 00:22:04,357 --> 00:22:07,193 2:26 is when I... Was it 2:26? 415 00:22:07,226 --> 00:22:08,861 It was 2:36 when I called. 416 00:22:08,895 --> 00:22:12,365 2:36 is when she called and I was in the truck 417 00:22:12,399 --> 00:22:14,000 hauling down to the road, trying to get service. 418 00:22:14,033 --> 00:22:15,768 'Cause I didn't think one bar would get it. 419 00:22:16,403 --> 00:22:17,937 We... we were just... 420 00:22:17,970 --> 00:22:19,872 Yeah, we decided we were gonna go a little exploring. 421 00:22:19,906 --> 00:22:22,108 He was gonna be good with Grandpa by the campfire. 422 00:22:22,141 --> 00:22:24,944 -We weren't probably more than 15-- -Ten minutes. 423 00:22:24,977 --> 00:22:26,479 Fifty yards away in ten minutes 424 00:22:26,513 --> 00:22:29,181 by the time I'd seen him 425 00:22:29,215 --> 00:22:30,950 to the point I figured out he was gone. 426 00:22:30,983 --> 00:22:32,619 [Nate] And the creek was empty? 427 00:22:32,652 --> 00:22:34,153 The creek, there was nothing. 428 00:22:34,186 --> 00:22:36,823 They had chainsaws, um, moving, 429 00:22:36,856 --> 00:22:39,859 'cause every few feet it was blocked off. 430 00:22:39,892 --> 00:22:42,862 Blocked down and blocked off from nature. 431 00:22:42,895 --> 00:22:46,466 From tress, from branches, from debris. 432 00:22:46,499 --> 00:22:49,636 I mean, there was a lot of places that he could be, 433 00:22:49,669 --> 00:22:51,471 and that's what they wanted to eliminate. 434 00:22:51,504 --> 00:22:52,705 That was my biggest concern. 435 00:22:52,739 --> 00:22:54,474 'Cause that's where we were by. 436 00:22:54,507 --> 00:22:56,809 That means that there's a chance he's still alive. 437 00:22:56,843 --> 00:23:00,613 And that's all I need is a chance to know that he's still alive. 438 00:23:00,647 --> 00:23:02,549 And until I have him... 439 00:23:02,582 --> 00:23:05,885 and closure, or him, nothing is stopping. 440 00:23:05,918 --> 00:23:07,119 Nothing is... 441 00:23:07,153 --> 00:23:09,722 [Nate] Do you know if somebody had a vendetta against you? 442 00:23:09,756 --> 00:23:11,758 I mean, I'm sure you've gone through your mind... 443 00:23:11,791 --> 00:23:12,825 We've been wreaking our brains. 444 00:23:12,859 --> 00:23:14,293 We have been wreaking our brains. 445 00:23:14,326 --> 00:23:16,529 And I don't know anybody that doesn't have a few people 446 00:23:16,563 --> 00:23:18,598 that either will like you or hate you. 447 00:23:18,631 --> 00:23:21,434 But not to harm a two-year-old, almost three-year-old. 448 00:23:21,468 --> 00:23:22,602 Not to harm us this way. 449 00:23:22,635 --> 00:23:26,473 Especially knowing how much he means to us. 450 00:23:26,506 --> 00:23:28,908 He's everything to us. 451 00:23:32,479 --> 00:23:33,913 [Nate speaking] 452 00:23:33,946 --> 00:23:35,915 [DeOrr] No, we're actually getting married next month. 453 00:23:35,948 --> 00:23:37,283 [Nate] Oh. 454 00:23:37,316 --> 00:23:39,619 I saw the rings and didn't know if it was engagement, or... 455 00:23:39,652 --> 00:23:40,820 [DeOrr] Engagement. 456 00:23:40,853 --> 00:23:42,589 [Nate] How long have you been together? Pop quiz. 457 00:23:42,622 --> 00:23:44,524 -[DeOrr] Almost five years. -[Jessica] Yeah. 458 00:23:48,795 --> 00:23:51,731 [woman] Jessica's always been very, very reserved. 459 00:23:51,764 --> 00:23:55,802 She does not like to let people see her emotionally. 460 00:23:58,471 --> 00:23:59,706 [Frank] Yeah, she is quiet. 461 00:23:59,739 --> 00:24:02,441 And he is the one that more dynamic. 462 00:24:02,475 --> 00:24:04,010 Maybe you might say probably to a fault. 463 00:24:08,948 --> 00:24:11,150 You know, the 911 call that she made, 464 00:24:11,183 --> 00:24:12,418 everyone kept saying, 465 00:24:12,451 --> 00:24:14,754 you know, why was it that she was so calm? 466 00:24:14,787 --> 00:24:17,857 [Jessica over phone] I am actually camping in Leadore. 467 00:24:19,058 --> 00:24:20,426 Just outside of Leadore. 468 00:24:20,459 --> 00:24:21,594 [911 operator] Uh-huh. 469 00:24:21,628 --> 00:24:24,296 [Jessica] Um, my two-year-old son... 470 00:24:24,330 --> 00:24:26,065 um, we can't find him. 471 00:24:27,834 --> 00:24:29,602 [Frank] I know they need money. 472 00:24:29,636 --> 00:24:32,271 I know they owe a lot of money in Montpelier, 473 00:24:32,304 --> 00:24:34,340 A lot of money for childcare. 474 00:24:34,373 --> 00:24:36,375 And I know she had her tubes tied since, 475 00:24:36,408 --> 00:24:40,146 so she could never have it reversed, never have another child. 476 00:24:40,179 --> 00:24:43,916 I think she did that because she didn't want children. 477 00:24:43,950 --> 00:24:46,018 But there's evidence that she was... 478 00:24:46,052 --> 00:24:48,855 Uh, had a hard time dealing with kids. 479 00:24:48,888 --> 00:24:51,323 She would leave her kid at daycare, 480 00:24:51,357 --> 00:24:52,892 and leave him unattended many times. 481 00:24:52,925 --> 00:24:56,428 I've talked to many people that brought that up. 482 00:24:56,462 --> 00:25:00,266 She has two kids from her ex-husband. 483 00:25:00,299 --> 00:25:03,870 And every other weekend they go to her house for the weekend. 484 00:25:10,209 --> 00:25:13,179 Seemed like good kids. Still think they are good kids. 485 00:25:14,213 --> 00:25:15,081 Um... 486 00:25:15,748 --> 00:25:17,617 They're hurting... bad. 487 00:25:18,818 --> 00:25:19,686 Um... 488 00:25:20,820 --> 00:25:23,155 I've held DeOrr while he's cried. 489 00:25:24,256 --> 00:25:25,958 After we finished the interview, 490 00:25:25,992 --> 00:25:27,860 I said, "Well, I hope he's found today. 491 00:25:27,894 --> 00:25:30,663 I hope you find him today." 492 00:25:30,697 --> 00:25:32,298 And then, that night, 493 00:25:32,331 --> 00:25:34,734 I saw them again at a vigil. 494 00:25:34,767 --> 00:25:36,202 [man] Hear the God of all comfort, Lord, 495 00:25:36,235 --> 00:25:39,639 that you would comfort the heart of Jessica and DeOrr 496 00:25:39,672 --> 00:25:40,873 and Trina, Lord. 497 00:25:40,907 --> 00:25:42,508 He could be very, very close. 498 00:25:42,541 --> 00:25:43,976 He could be very far away. 499 00:25:44,010 --> 00:25:46,679 We don't know, but we are covering all bases at this point. 500 00:25:46,713 --> 00:25:50,950 There's not much to be said other than one small mistake as a parent. 501 00:25:51,818 --> 00:25:54,921 You know, leaving him with an adult 502 00:25:54,954 --> 00:25:56,589 that turns his head for a minute, 503 00:25:56,623 --> 00:25:57,990 they move, they go. 504 00:25:58,024 --> 00:26:00,727 Please, cherish and love each other. 505 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,029 'Cause it can be changed in just a split second. 506 00:26:03,062 --> 00:26:05,598 [Nate] And they said that they were leaving from the vigil 507 00:26:05,632 --> 00:26:07,600 to go back up to the campsite 508 00:26:07,634 --> 00:26:08,868 to continue to search. 509 00:26:37,363 --> 00:26:40,466 [Rob] Basically what we would do is pick an area 510 00:26:40,499 --> 00:26:42,902 were we would like to hike and explore. 511 00:26:42,935 --> 00:26:47,640 And so when we went along Big South Trail for the first time, 512 00:26:47,674 --> 00:26:50,710 gorgeous hike, beautiful, beautiful river. 513 00:26:52,679 --> 00:26:55,648 This is really a wild area. 514 00:26:55,682 --> 00:26:59,085 And the reason why Gary and I so much enjoy 515 00:26:59,118 --> 00:27:00,319 hiking together. 516 00:27:04,957 --> 00:27:06,926 And then it was just coincidental 517 00:27:06,959 --> 00:27:08,961 that we wound up in a rock field 518 00:27:08,995 --> 00:27:11,597 and said, you know, "Let's hike up the ridge." 519 00:27:11,630 --> 00:27:16,135 And I think it's about 2,000 foot hike up 520 00:27:16,168 --> 00:27:18,470 elevation to get to the top of it. 521 00:27:18,504 --> 00:27:21,307 But really remarkable country. 522 00:27:21,340 --> 00:27:22,709 [Gareth] Yeah, okay... 523 00:27:22,742 --> 00:27:24,643 Pretty much it was like almost a scramble. 524 00:27:24,677 --> 00:27:26,578 So you're watching your feet, 525 00:27:26,612 --> 00:27:28,715 and basically you're just focused 526 00:27:28,748 --> 00:27:30,249 a few feet in front of you, your own feet, 527 00:27:30,282 --> 00:27:32,184 so you don't twist an ankle or something. 528 00:27:32,218 --> 00:27:34,053 And that's when I saw the shoe. 529 00:27:36,255 --> 00:27:38,024 It was pretty pristine. 530 00:27:38,057 --> 00:27:41,560 It was like somebody had just took their foot right out of it, you know. 531 00:27:41,593 --> 00:27:42,962 It was so fresh, I thought like 532 00:27:42,995 --> 00:27:45,097 I would see a kid standing in front of me. 533 00:27:49,568 --> 00:27:51,303 -Cheese. -[man] And what's your name? 534 00:27:51,337 --> 00:27:52,238 Jaryd. 535 00:27:52,271 --> 00:27:54,240 Now give me that big smile with dimples. 536 00:27:54,673 --> 00:27:56,442 Yeah! 537 00:27:56,475 --> 00:27:58,878 [Allyn] It wasn't so much that he liked the Raiders. 538 00:27:58,911 --> 00:28:00,679 He loved silver and black. 539 00:28:00,713 --> 00:28:02,915 And when he saw the Raiders on TV one day, 540 00:28:02,949 --> 00:28:04,683 He's like, "Dad, there's a silver and black team." 541 00:28:04,717 --> 00:28:06,953 I said, "Yeah, there is." "That's my team, Dad." 542 00:28:06,986 --> 00:28:08,387 And I'm like, "Okay." 543 00:28:08,420 --> 00:28:09,756 So he's a Raiders fan. 544 00:28:11,290 --> 00:28:12,892 My name is Jocelyn Atadero, 545 00:28:12,925 --> 00:28:14,660 and my brother Jaryd Atadero went missing 546 00:28:14,693 --> 00:28:17,296 in the Colorado Mountains in 1999. 547 00:28:19,598 --> 00:28:20,833 As I was younger, 548 00:28:20,867 --> 00:28:22,501 my dad would tell me that I would tell him 549 00:28:22,534 --> 00:28:24,470 certain memories I had of the hike. 550 00:28:24,503 --> 00:28:25,905 As I got older, though, 551 00:28:25,938 --> 00:28:29,375 I couldn't even tell you what I told him back then. 552 00:28:29,408 --> 00:28:31,677 The only memory I have 553 00:28:31,710 --> 00:28:34,346 of the resort, or that whole time period, 554 00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:37,149 is after Jaryd had disappeared. 555 00:28:37,183 --> 00:28:39,118 We were back at the resort in a room... 556 00:28:39,151 --> 00:28:40,686 I couldn't even tell you where, 557 00:28:40,719 --> 00:28:42,621 and my dad was kneeling on the ground crying, 558 00:28:42,654 --> 00:28:43,890 and I was hugging him. 559 00:28:49,829 --> 00:28:51,097 [Allyn] I was attracted to Poudre Canyon, 560 00:28:51,130 --> 00:28:53,966 because, you know, the trees were beautiful. 561 00:28:55,768 --> 00:28:57,203 And you know there's stuff out there, 562 00:28:57,236 --> 00:28:58,404 but it's just interesting because 563 00:28:58,437 --> 00:29:00,940 you become part of the Poudre Canyon right there. 564 00:29:04,476 --> 00:29:06,813 [Butch] It was approximately a ten acre resort. 565 00:29:06,846 --> 00:29:09,415 It was small, but, you know, we kept busy. 566 00:29:12,284 --> 00:29:13,786 [Allyn] It was all about just being there. 567 00:29:13,820 --> 00:29:15,788 It was one of those situations where 568 00:29:15,822 --> 00:29:18,757 when you actually own a little store there... 569 00:29:18,791 --> 00:29:21,060 We got up at six o'clock in the morning, 570 00:29:21,093 --> 00:29:23,429 and we closed at eleven o'clock in the night. 571 00:29:25,297 --> 00:29:26,966 Not only did it take care of us, 572 00:29:26,999 --> 00:29:28,868 but how many people get the opportunity 573 00:29:28,901 --> 00:29:31,170 to be next to their kids 24/7? 574 00:29:31,203 --> 00:29:34,140 And that's what I really enjoyed about the canyon. 575 00:29:34,173 --> 00:29:35,441 There were only three of us. 576 00:29:35,474 --> 00:29:37,676 I mean, even though had a family at the resort, 577 00:29:37,709 --> 00:29:39,078 we had people that worked for us, 578 00:29:39,111 --> 00:29:40,579 it was Jocelyn, Jared and I. 579 00:29:40,612 --> 00:29:42,381 We knew that we were the family. 580 00:29:48,554 --> 00:29:51,958 The group decided they wanted to go to the trout farm, 581 00:29:51,991 --> 00:29:53,459 the fishery, right around the corner. 582 00:29:53,492 --> 00:29:56,228 Maybe about a mile and a half, two miles from the resort itself. 583 00:29:58,764 --> 00:30:00,266 Hey, Allyn. Jocelyn wants to know... 584 00:30:00,299 --> 00:30:02,068 [Allyn] Several of the people I knew quite well. 585 00:30:02,101 --> 00:30:05,037 So I gave permission for Jocelyn to go. 586 00:30:05,071 --> 00:30:07,139 Not knowing that Jaryd would be saying, 587 00:30:07,173 --> 00:30:10,176 "Gee, Dad. If she can go, why can't I go, too?" 588 00:30:12,044 --> 00:30:13,612 He had his shoes on. 589 00:30:13,645 --> 00:30:15,247 He hated tying his shoes. 590 00:30:15,281 --> 00:30:17,049 So I didn't make him tie his shoes. 591 00:30:17,083 --> 00:30:19,285 And he had like a beige color jacket. 592 00:30:20,686 --> 00:30:21,854 Have fun, okay? 593 00:30:21,888 --> 00:30:24,356 Don't get too close to the water. 594 00:30:24,390 --> 00:30:27,960 I let Jaryd go and I assumed that's where they were going. 595 00:30:36,435 --> 00:30:38,004 [interviewer speaking] 596 00:30:38,971 --> 00:30:41,740 Moderate. Ups, downs. 597 00:30:41,773 --> 00:30:44,877 You could take a kid on it as long as you kept the kid in line 598 00:30:45,577 --> 00:30:47,980 and hung onto him. 599 00:30:48,014 --> 00:30:52,251 'Cause there was some areas where the ledges were only 24 inches wide. 600 00:30:52,284 --> 00:30:55,687 And you had loose shell all the way down to the river, so... 601 00:30:55,721 --> 00:30:57,123 And then there was rock fields. 602 00:30:57,156 --> 00:30:58,557 Being a moderate trail, it was pretty tough. 603 00:30:58,590 --> 00:31:02,061 If you're not in shape, it will take it out of you. 604 00:31:02,094 --> 00:31:05,664 The church group went up to the Big South Trail. 605 00:31:05,697 --> 00:31:06,933 They parked at the trail head, 606 00:31:06,966 --> 00:31:09,168 and they started walking in on the trail. 607 00:31:15,074 --> 00:31:18,477 They started to separate or spread out as they walked. 608 00:31:18,510 --> 00:31:20,512 Some people faster and slower. 609 00:31:22,481 --> 00:31:26,185 One adult with Jaryd's sister and Jaryd, 610 00:31:26,218 --> 00:31:28,921 seemed to be out ahead of everybody else. 611 00:31:29,956 --> 00:31:32,458 As Jaryd, as a three-year-old, 612 00:31:32,491 --> 00:31:35,461 is running and playing and having a good time. 613 00:31:35,494 --> 00:31:38,030 And I believe there was something 614 00:31:38,064 --> 00:31:40,732 ten to twenty minutes worth of time 615 00:31:40,766 --> 00:31:43,602 that she lost track... 616 00:31:43,635 --> 00:31:47,173 The adult realized, "I haven't seen him for a while." 617 00:31:47,206 --> 00:31:49,741 And when they went up to try to find him, 618 00:31:49,775 --> 00:31:51,944 they kept going thinking they would catch up, 619 00:31:51,978 --> 00:31:53,379 and they didn't catch up. 620 00:31:53,412 --> 00:31:56,782 It was reported that he spoke to some fishermen. 621 00:31:56,815 --> 00:32:00,919 And he asked if there were bears around. 622 00:32:00,953 --> 00:32:03,322 And he's alone at this point in time. 623 00:32:07,226 --> 00:32:10,462 At least they have an idea, you know, roughly 624 00:32:10,496 --> 00:32:12,198 where he was last seen. 625 00:32:17,869 --> 00:32:21,240 I myself was cleaning some things, 626 00:32:21,273 --> 00:32:25,477 and decided to sit down and watch a football game. 627 00:32:25,511 --> 00:32:28,147 And I must have been watching for maybe 15 or 20 minutes, 628 00:32:28,180 --> 00:32:29,681 and I slowly nodded off. 629 00:32:35,321 --> 00:32:36,888 [woman] Something is wrong. 630 00:32:36,922 --> 00:32:39,158 [Allyn] And they're like, "Allyn, we have to talk to you." 631 00:32:39,191 --> 00:32:42,761 "Sure. What's going on?" And they said, 632 00:32:42,794 --> 00:32:45,364 "We had a problem with Jaryd." 633 00:32:45,397 --> 00:32:48,434 "What happened? Did he fall? Did he scrape his knee? 634 00:32:48,467 --> 00:32:50,769 Did he break his arm? What happened?" 635 00:32:50,802 --> 00:32:52,738 And what they actually said to me was, 636 00:32:53,805 --> 00:32:57,243 "He's okay. We just can't find him." 637 00:32:57,276 --> 00:33:00,846 At that moment, I realized I had to go up the road. 638 00:33:00,879 --> 00:33:03,249 We got in our cars. I was in my truck. 639 00:33:03,282 --> 00:33:05,117 And I'm like, "Well, where are we going?" 640 00:33:05,151 --> 00:33:07,386 They said it's about... I can't remember. 641 00:33:07,419 --> 00:33:09,621 Sixteen, fifteen, sixteen miles up the road. 642 00:33:09,655 --> 00:33:11,890 I'm like, "Are you serious?" 643 00:33:11,923 --> 00:33:14,726 How'd you guys get that far up the road? 644 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,031 And the entire way up the road, 645 00:33:19,065 --> 00:33:20,632 I just kept beating myself on the chest, 646 00:33:20,666 --> 00:33:22,534 like someone had stabbed me with a sword. 647 00:33:22,568 --> 00:33:25,137 Just beating my chest and yelling. 648 00:33:25,171 --> 00:33:26,738 Dad's sorry, little man. 649 00:33:26,772 --> 00:33:28,006 Just yelling Jaryd's name. 650 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,675 Sorry I let you go... 651 00:33:29,708 --> 00:33:32,411 Yelling for God to help me. 652 00:33:32,444 --> 00:33:34,012 Please help me find my son, Lord. 653 00:33:34,046 --> 00:33:35,114 Just yelling and screaming. 654 00:33:35,147 --> 00:33:36,615 I yelled and screamed in my truck 655 00:33:36,648 --> 00:33:38,384 all the way up the road. 656 00:33:38,417 --> 00:33:40,419 I don't even know how I got there. 657 00:33:40,452 --> 00:33:43,021 I drove that road probably twice as fast 658 00:33:43,055 --> 00:33:45,291 as anyone should even drive that road. 659 00:33:50,629 --> 00:33:52,030 Jaryd! 660 00:33:57,803 --> 00:33:59,405 Jaryd! 661 00:34:02,841 --> 00:34:04,543 And as I ran up that trail, 662 00:34:04,576 --> 00:34:07,012 I yelled and yelled, and screamed his name, 663 00:34:07,045 --> 00:34:08,247 screamed, "Jaryd." 664 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,048 Screamed "Jay-Rod." I called him Jay-Rod. 665 00:34:10,082 --> 00:34:11,450 I called him "my little man." 666 00:34:11,483 --> 00:34:14,253 I called every name I could, 667 00:34:15,354 --> 00:34:17,556 trying to get a response from him. 668 00:34:19,791 --> 00:34:21,227 And I listened. 669 00:34:33,939 --> 00:34:36,742 And I'm not sure exactly how far we got up on the trail, 670 00:34:36,775 --> 00:34:40,179 but I stopped and I realized, "Oh, my God. This is gonna be... 671 00:34:40,212 --> 00:34:42,080 This is not what I thought it was. 672 00:34:42,114 --> 00:34:43,782 I just can't get up here and find him." 673 00:34:51,357 --> 00:34:55,594 [Bill] We worked for solid eight days to begin with. 674 00:34:55,627 --> 00:34:59,831 And that was 24 hours a day for eight days. 675 00:34:59,865 --> 00:35:02,834 We're gonna keep visual contact at all time. 676 00:35:02,868 --> 00:35:05,471 We did some night searching. 677 00:35:05,504 --> 00:35:07,306 It was limited to a certain extent, 678 00:35:07,339 --> 00:35:10,942 but we did always have people out in the field 679 00:35:10,976 --> 00:35:12,511 to make noise, 680 00:35:12,544 --> 00:35:14,346 so if somebody was out there now, 681 00:35:14,380 --> 00:35:16,815 Jaryd would have heard it, he would have maybe 682 00:35:16,848 --> 00:35:19,485 responded or went to. 683 00:35:19,518 --> 00:35:24,089 [Jayne] It was very intense. Very media friendly. 684 00:35:24,122 --> 00:35:26,091 I mean, there was media, CNN... 685 00:35:26,124 --> 00:35:29,461 So it became a real nationwide episode. 686 00:35:29,495 --> 00:35:33,532 So, that put a lot of stress on us and a lot of stress on the dogs. 687 00:35:41,407 --> 00:35:43,675 It was a situation to where... 688 00:35:46,778 --> 00:35:48,113 people lost hope. 689 00:35:48,146 --> 00:35:50,582 Like, we're not gonna find him, you know. 690 00:35:50,616 --> 00:35:53,252 This is one of those situations where he disappeared. 691 00:35:59,157 --> 00:36:02,160 We had hiked the area couple of times before, 692 00:36:02,194 --> 00:36:04,796 and we had talked about 693 00:36:04,830 --> 00:36:06,498 the mystery of Jaryd Atadero. 694 00:36:06,532 --> 00:36:08,234 Whether he had been swept downstream, 695 00:36:08,267 --> 00:36:11,270 abducted by a mountain lion, 696 00:36:11,303 --> 00:36:14,306 or of there had been something more sinister than that. 697 00:36:14,340 --> 00:36:16,942 This time, we decided to go off trail. 698 00:36:16,975 --> 00:36:19,778 And we just walked right into it. 699 00:36:19,811 --> 00:36:22,748 And we knew right away 700 00:36:22,781 --> 00:36:26,285 that it was probably Jaryd Atadero's clothes. 701 00:36:32,458 --> 00:36:34,560 [interviewer speaking] 702 00:36:36,928 --> 00:36:38,897 Not... Boy, that's a hard one. 703 00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:40,232 No way. No way. 704 00:36:40,266 --> 00:36:41,867 -I... -Absolutely no way. 705 00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:44,303 Not all the way. I couldn't see him going... 706 00:36:44,336 --> 00:36:47,439 He lived in a cabin-- 707 00:36:47,473 --> 00:36:49,140 He's a three-year-old. There's no way... 708 00:36:49,174 --> 00:36:51,310 There's no way that would happen. 709 00:36:51,343 --> 00:36:54,446 Yeah. I mean, it was a struggle for Gary and I to get there. 710 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:55,814 Very rough terrain. 711 00:37:02,988 --> 00:37:06,392 [wind howling] 712 00:37:27,446 --> 00:37:30,282 [Bill] There were K-9 alerts 713 00:37:30,316 --> 00:37:32,284 that would go that direction. 714 00:37:32,318 --> 00:37:34,820 Now, whether they were right at the scree field, 715 00:37:34,853 --> 00:37:38,857 or before it, but they were at least alerting up that hill. 716 00:37:38,890 --> 00:37:41,493 That's why I'm reasonably certain we searched it, 717 00:37:41,527 --> 00:37:44,863 because we... When a dog alerts like that, 718 00:37:44,896 --> 00:37:46,832 we're thinking, "Okay, something must be up there. 719 00:37:46,865 --> 00:37:49,368 Let's get up there and search for it." 720 00:37:49,401 --> 00:37:51,670 But we never found anything. 721 00:37:51,703 --> 00:37:55,474 I think whatever's happening is beyond our understanding. 722 00:37:57,108 --> 00:37:58,844 In a lot of these cases, 723 00:37:58,877 --> 00:38:01,813 Search and Rescue, or the volunteer searching people 724 00:38:01,847 --> 00:38:03,815 have already gone over certain areas, 725 00:38:03,849 --> 00:38:07,152 not once, not twice, but even dozens of times. 726 00:38:07,185 --> 00:38:10,389 And then, the child is found there 727 00:38:10,422 --> 00:38:12,591 maybe a year, maybe a few years later. 728 00:38:15,561 --> 00:38:17,529 [Rob] When we had discovered the clothes 729 00:38:17,563 --> 00:38:18,797 and went back up there, 730 00:38:18,830 --> 00:38:21,299 with some of the people involved in the search, 731 00:38:21,333 --> 00:38:22,801 you know, they were all scratching their heads. 732 00:38:22,834 --> 00:38:25,036 Like, you know, they had all been around 733 00:38:25,070 --> 00:38:26,838 the area. 734 00:38:26,872 --> 00:38:30,509 My conclusion was an animal encounter 735 00:38:31,209 --> 00:38:32,444 right at the beginning. 736 00:38:32,478 --> 00:38:36,582 And so, I'm not sure officially 737 00:38:36,615 --> 00:38:40,386 what has really been released as a finality, 738 00:38:40,419 --> 00:38:44,456 but it pretty much points to an animal encounter. 739 00:38:45,223 --> 00:38:46,925 If a cat actually took him, 740 00:38:46,958 --> 00:38:50,195 which is what I believe, I believe happened. 741 00:38:50,228 --> 00:38:52,831 The cat would have taken him some place 742 00:38:52,864 --> 00:38:54,400 and buried him, and... 743 00:38:54,433 --> 00:38:56,502 With all of the activity that was going on. 744 00:38:56,535 --> 00:38:58,437 It probably would have left, 745 00:38:58,470 --> 00:39:00,205 because we would have scared it away, 746 00:39:00,238 --> 00:39:02,073 and it would have came back later. 747 00:39:04,042 --> 00:39:07,446 [Allyn] I hear constantly about a mountain lion. 748 00:39:07,479 --> 00:39:11,817 Yet, when they tested Jaryd's clothing, 749 00:39:11,850 --> 00:39:13,452 there was no mountain lion hairs, 750 00:39:13,485 --> 00:39:17,022 no DNA, no blood, nothing on his clothing. 751 00:39:17,055 --> 00:39:20,225 This is actually what's left of the cranium 752 00:39:20,258 --> 00:39:21,893 after four different DNA tests. 753 00:39:24,229 --> 00:39:26,297 To think that I... 754 00:39:26,331 --> 00:39:28,767 I mean, I have a hard time comprehending this. 755 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,503 But to think I'm actually sitting here holding my son... 756 00:39:32,804 --> 00:39:34,940 This is what I have left of him. 757 00:39:37,843 --> 00:39:40,278 The clothing was sent to the CBI. 758 00:39:40,311 --> 00:39:42,113 The clothing was tested by the CBI. 759 00:39:42,147 --> 00:39:44,583 No mountain lion hairs, 760 00:39:44,616 --> 00:39:47,786 no blood, nothing on any of the articles of clothing. 761 00:39:51,423 --> 00:39:54,159 If a mountain lion would have attacked him, 762 00:39:54,192 --> 00:39:55,794 they go for the stomach area. 763 00:39:55,827 --> 00:39:57,829 This jacket would have been in shreds. 764 00:39:57,863 --> 00:39:59,297 I've been told by several people, 765 00:39:59,330 --> 00:40:00,932 mountain lion experts in the woods, 766 00:40:00,966 --> 00:40:04,269 this jacket would not have survived a mountain lion attack, period. 767 00:40:04,302 --> 00:40:05,837 These are the actual shoes. 768 00:40:05,871 --> 00:40:08,440 These are Jaryd's shoes that were found up on the mountain. 769 00:40:08,474 --> 00:40:10,075 I've been told by experts 770 00:40:10,108 --> 00:40:12,177 that they do not look like they've been in the wilderness 771 00:40:12,210 --> 00:40:13,545 for three-and-a-half years. 772 00:40:13,579 --> 00:40:16,948 The other thing that's interesting about the shoes 773 00:40:16,982 --> 00:40:19,017 is you would think 774 00:40:19,050 --> 00:40:22,554 that if a mountain lion were dragging his body 775 00:40:23,088 --> 00:40:24,523 up a mountain, 776 00:40:24,556 --> 00:40:26,357 and dragging him like this, 777 00:40:26,391 --> 00:40:28,393 you would see marks on his shoes. 778 00:40:28,426 --> 00:40:30,562 And there are no marks here. 779 00:40:30,596 --> 00:40:33,899 You would think if he was dragging him this way 780 00:40:33,932 --> 00:40:35,333 up the mountain, 781 00:40:35,366 --> 00:40:36,868 not only would you see marks, 782 00:40:36,902 --> 00:40:39,571 but it would have pulled his shoes off way before 783 00:40:39,605 --> 00:40:41,372 the area where they found him. 784 00:40:41,406 --> 00:40:43,809 Jaryd's pants were found inside out. 785 00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:46,578 When people first see this, 786 00:40:46,612 --> 00:40:49,347 they get terrified, and go, "Oh, my gosh! 787 00:40:49,380 --> 00:40:51,550 What could have happened to him?" 788 00:40:51,583 --> 00:40:54,486 There were birds and rodents and stuff 789 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:55,887 literally pulling it apart, 790 00:40:55,921 --> 00:40:58,790 using the material as nesting. 791 00:40:58,824 --> 00:41:00,592 So you see this material everywhere. 792 00:41:00,626 --> 00:41:02,728 So it's not because something attacked him 793 00:41:02,761 --> 00:41:04,362 and ripped his leg off. 794 00:41:04,395 --> 00:41:08,466 This is all due to rodents and birds. 795 00:41:10,802 --> 00:41:13,705 We were relieve in one sense, 796 00:41:13,739 --> 00:41:15,774 that the mystery had been solved. 797 00:41:16,341 --> 00:41:17,943 My sense of it is that 798 00:41:17,976 --> 00:41:22,047 Jaryd was abducted in the boulder field 799 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:23,448 by the mountain lion. 800 00:41:23,481 --> 00:41:26,484 The mountain lion grabbed him by his shoulder, 801 00:41:26,518 --> 00:41:30,455 and went straight up the side of this mountain. 802 00:41:30,488 --> 00:41:32,190 In one of the reports, 803 00:41:32,223 --> 00:41:34,025 a person says, 804 00:41:34,059 --> 00:41:36,562 "The reason why we didn't find any DNA or blood 805 00:41:36,595 --> 00:41:38,063 or anything on Jaryd's clothing, 806 00:41:38,096 --> 00:41:41,499 is because either he or something removed his clothing 807 00:41:42,233 --> 00:41:43,569 before he was attacked." 808 00:41:45,604 --> 00:41:49,641 Either Jaryd or something removed his clothing before he was attacked. 809 00:41:50,609 --> 00:41:52,544 And they go on to say that 810 00:41:52,578 --> 00:41:54,580 "Because there are so many hikers coming up, 811 00:41:54,613 --> 00:41:58,617 that the mountain lion took Jaryd's body 500 feet up the side of the cliff." 812 00:41:58,650 --> 00:42:00,151 Well, wait a second. 813 00:42:00,185 --> 00:42:01,419 I can buy all that. 814 00:42:01,452 --> 00:42:03,188 But I can't buy this. 815 00:42:03,221 --> 00:42:07,425 If something or someone took Jaryd's clothing off before he was attacked, 816 00:42:07,458 --> 00:42:10,562 that means his clothing wasn't with him 817 00:42:10,596 --> 00:42:12,664 when this thing carried him up the mountain. 818 00:42:14,499 --> 00:42:16,602 Jaryd's pants were found inside out. 819 00:42:17,435 --> 00:42:19,237 Told by many mountain lion experts, 820 00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:22,340 mountain lions don't pull clothing off of you, 821 00:42:22,373 --> 00:42:24,442 especially your pants and leave them there on the mountain 822 00:42:24,475 --> 00:42:25,744 inside out. 823 00:42:26,511 --> 00:42:28,079 There's just too much... 824 00:42:28,113 --> 00:42:31,282 There are too many questions that don't have answers. 825 00:42:31,316 --> 00:42:33,952 And I feel strongly, my family and I feel strongly 826 00:42:33,985 --> 00:42:35,921 that there is someone out there 827 00:42:35,954 --> 00:42:37,956 who knows a little bit more than we know. 828 00:42:50,669 --> 00:42:52,804 [man 1] You know, when I get questioned about this 829 00:42:52,838 --> 00:42:54,906 from people who've heard our interviews, 830 00:42:54,940 --> 00:42:56,708 people will stick to that 831 00:42:56,742 --> 00:42:58,309 it's a bear, it's a mountain lion, 832 00:42:58,343 --> 00:42:59,678 it's some kind of an animal. 833 00:42:59,711 --> 00:43:01,446 But I mean, they leave clues, there's evidence. 834 00:43:01,479 --> 00:43:02,948 There's blood, there's tissue, 835 00:43:02,981 --> 00:43:05,550 there's indications of a struggle, right? 836 00:43:05,583 --> 00:43:06,985 [man 2] Oh, absolutely. 837 00:43:07,018 --> 00:43:09,554 And when the trackers come in with search and rescue, 838 00:43:09,587 --> 00:43:11,289 they're looking for those indicators. 839 00:43:11,322 --> 00:43:14,259 There's gonna be a massive scene there of blood, 840 00:43:14,292 --> 00:43:16,695 hair, drag marks and things, 841 00:43:16,728 --> 00:43:19,130 as the animal would be taking you away. 842 00:43:19,164 --> 00:43:21,099 That's one of the points that we vet 843 00:43:21,132 --> 00:43:23,301 before we even look into one of these cases. 844 00:43:23,334 --> 00:43:25,804 And in the last 100 years, 845 00:43:25,837 --> 00:43:28,907 there's only been 14 fatal mountain lion attacks 846 00:43:28,940 --> 00:43:31,042 in the United States and Canada. 847 00:43:41,653 --> 00:43:43,388 [interviewer speaking] 848 00:43:45,991 --> 00:43:47,926 [Robert] Idaho Falls, Idaho, 849 00:43:49,194 --> 00:43:51,229 and Robert C. Walton. 850 00:43:54,432 --> 00:43:56,201 [interviewer speaking] 851 00:43:57,502 --> 00:43:59,705 [Robert] I didn't play with him much. 852 00:43:59,738 --> 00:44:01,873 He was just getting to the point where he 853 00:44:02,708 --> 00:44:05,110 could do something, you know. 854 00:44:05,143 --> 00:44:09,080 He was over here quite a bit with Jessica. 855 00:44:09,114 --> 00:44:11,683 And he'd come over here and bum candy off me. 856 00:44:14,619 --> 00:44:16,221 [interviewer speaking] 857 00:44:20,792 --> 00:44:22,427 [Robert] Well... [clears throat] 858 00:44:24,229 --> 00:44:25,430 Sure. I think a little. 859 00:44:26,464 --> 00:44:28,066 But... 860 00:44:28,099 --> 00:44:31,903 I think everybody who was there has a little guilt about it. 861 00:44:32,470 --> 00:44:33,805 You know? 862 00:44:33,839 --> 00:44:35,206 DeOrr and Jessica say that 863 00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:37,809 they decided to go camping that weekend 864 00:44:37,843 --> 00:44:40,578 to kind of relive 865 00:44:40,611 --> 00:44:43,548 good memories for Grandpa Bob Walton. 866 00:44:43,581 --> 00:44:46,684 This was apparently a spot that in his earlier years 867 00:44:46,718 --> 00:44:49,220 Bob Walton had gone to several times. 868 00:44:50,521 --> 00:44:53,091 Grandpa is on oxygen. 869 00:44:53,124 --> 00:44:55,794 Some have said, has some memory issues. 870 00:44:55,827 --> 00:44:57,829 Law enforcement, since day one, 871 00:44:57,863 --> 00:44:59,998 have continually ruled out Grandpa, 872 00:45:00,031 --> 00:45:02,033 because of his health issues, 873 00:45:02,067 --> 00:45:05,636 and they don't think he was in the right frame of mind 874 00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:07,638 to do anything like this. 875 00:45:07,672 --> 00:45:09,474 With my dad being ill, 876 00:45:09,507 --> 00:45:11,642 I asked Jessica to go up there, 877 00:45:11,676 --> 00:45:15,646 to be with him in the event that something happened to my father 878 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,115 that she could take care of him. 879 00:45:17,148 --> 00:45:18,683 I don't know Bob, 880 00:45:18,716 --> 00:45:20,852 and I've never met Issac. 881 00:45:20,886 --> 00:45:25,656 But being the only other two people there, 882 00:45:25,690 --> 00:45:28,059 other than Jessica and DeOrr... 883 00:45:28,093 --> 00:45:30,061 If he was taken from that campground, 884 00:45:30,095 --> 00:45:31,930 they have to be involved somehow. 885 00:45:31,963 --> 00:45:33,932 Since DeOrr Kunz disappeared, 886 00:45:33,965 --> 00:45:37,435 many have had questions about the friend who was with the family 887 00:45:37,468 --> 00:45:38,970 that day at the campsite. 888 00:45:39,004 --> 00:45:41,572 His name is Issac Reinwand. 889 00:45:41,606 --> 00:45:43,674 So we went to his Idaho Falls house 890 00:45:43,708 --> 00:45:46,311 over and over... 891 00:45:46,344 --> 00:45:47,412 Hello. 892 00:45:47,445 --> 00:45:48,513 ...and over again. 893 00:45:49,580 --> 00:45:51,449 Finally, early Monday morning, 894 00:45:51,482 --> 00:45:52,717 he answered the door. 895 00:45:52,750 --> 00:45:54,719 I'm Nate Eaton with East Idaho News. 896 00:45:54,752 --> 00:45:56,822 Yeah, I don't have any questions, I'm sorry. 897 00:45:56,855 --> 00:45:58,156 You don't have anything you wanna say? 898 00:45:58,189 --> 00:45:59,791 All right. Sorry to wake you up. 899 00:45:59,825 --> 00:46:02,593 We just wanna see if you have anything to say about DeOrr missing. 900 00:46:02,627 --> 00:46:04,262 -I don't. -You don't? 901 00:46:04,295 --> 00:46:05,696 I have no comment. 902 00:46:05,730 --> 00:46:08,266 So he was just with you and the grandfather when he wandered away? 903 00:46:08,299 --> 00:46:09,367 Mm-hmm. 904 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,469 And then, you guys thought he was with the parents? 905 00:46:13,271 --> 00:46:14,739 Yeah. 906 00:46:14,772 --> 00:46:16,507 And the parents came back and he was gone? 907 00:46:17,675 --> 00:46:19,077 Mm-hmm. 908 00:46:19,110 --> 00:46:21,212 Okay, listen. I don't have... I don't... I can't... 909 00:46:21,246 --> 00:46:23,714 I don't wanna answer anymore questions or anything. 910 00:46:23,748 --> 00:46:25,150 Thank you, sir. 911 00:46:25,183 --> 00:46:27,385 Strange thing about Issac, he never searched for the boy. 912 00:46:27,418 --> 00:46:29,354 I interviewed Issac. 913 00:46:29,387 --> 00:46:31,322 He's a strange duck. 914 00:46:31,356 --> 00:46:36,161 And he does have a prior conviction of a sex crime. 915 00:46:36,194 --> 00:46:39,364 [coughs] It was reduced to a felony and a misdemeanor. 916 00:46:39,397 --> 00:46:41,132 And the strange thing 917 00:46:41,166 --> 00:46:44,735 is the morning after the little boy was missing, 918 00:46:44,769 --> 00:46:46,371 he got up and said to several people, 919 00:46:46,404 --> 00:46:49,140 "It's the best night's rest I had in a long time." 920 00:46:49,174 --> 00:46:52,310 The parents told me that they had never met Issac 921 00:46:52,343 --> 00:46:54,112 until this camping trip. 922 00:46:54,145 --> 00:46:56,781 That Grandpa said, "Oh, I'm gonna bring along a friend. 923 00:46:56,814 --> 00:46:58,783 We're gonna fish together. 924 00:46:58,816 --> 00:47:01,019 We'll have a fun weekend away together." 925 00:47:01,052 --> 00:47:02,988 And the parents were okay with that. 926 00:47:03,889 --> 00:47:05,790 [interviewer speaking] 927 00:47:05,823 --> 00:47:07,058 Bob Walton? 928 00:47:07,092 --> 00:47:08,426 That's one of my good friends that I met him 929 00:47:08,459 --> 00:47:11,296 when I lived over on Chamberlain Avenue. 930 00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:14,099 I've known him for about five years or so. 931 00:47:14,132 --> 00:47:16,434 He's always tried to help me out. 932 00:47:16,467 --> 00:47:20,205 And I have done work for him in his yard. 933 00:47:20,238 --> 00:47:24,309 He's always taking me on fishing trips every year, so... 934 00:47:24,342 --> 00:47:26,744 I decided I wanted to go this year, too, 935 00:47:26,777 --> 00:47:28,213 because, you know, it's fun. 936 00:47:32,450 --> 00:47:34,319 It was nice and clear. 937 00:47:34,352 --> 00:47:35,553 Hot... 938 00:47:35,586 --> 00:47:39,024 I don't know. It was noisy 'cause of the creek. 939 00:47:40,058 --> 00:47:41,960 But other than that, it was a wonderful day. 940 00:47:41,993 --> 00:47:44,529 There wasn't really a cloud in the sky. 941 00:47:44,562 --> 00:47:47,065 [interviewer speaking] 942 00:47:49,567 --> 00:47:52,537 [Robert] Not too much. Only that I was fishing 943 00:47:52,570 --> 00:47:54,639 and Issac was watching me, 944 00:47:54,672 --> 00:47:57,976 and he got all excited after I'd caught a couple. 945 00:47:58,009 --> 00:47:59,978 He was gonna get his pole out. 946 00:48:00,011 --> 00:48:02,413 I think we caught four or five. 947 00:48:02,447 --> 00:48:05,750 About that time, here come Jess and DeOrr back. 948 00:48:05,783 --> 00:48:09,220 I don't know. I think it was about noon, maybe a little after. 949 00:48:09,254 --> 00:48:12,690 They had to go down to get some gas for the truck. 950 00:48:12,723 --> 00:48:14,125 And they came back. 951 00:48:14,159 --> 00:48:17,462 [Robert] So Issac and Jessica and DeOrr was... 952 00:48:18,796 --> 00:48:20,898 went to look for fish. 953 00:48:21,699 --> 00:48:23,468 And the kid was there with me, 954 00:48:23,501 --> 00:48:26,171 but I turned my head for a minute, I don't know 955 00:48:26,204 --> 00:48:29,674 for how long, five or ten minutes, I don't know. 956 00:48:29,707 --> 00:48:32,543 [Frank] The grandfather claims he didn't go inside his trailer. 957 00:48:33,178 --> 00:48:34,279 But I believe he did. 958 00:48:34,312 --> 00:48:36,347 I believe he did go inside the trailer. 959 00:48:36,381 --> 00:48:38,183 I showed them a couple of fishing holes. 960 00:48:38,216 --> 00:48:40,418 I was going down to another fishing hole. 961 00:48:40,451 --> 00:48:44,222 I was probably down there half an hour, an hour, and... 962 00:48:44,255 --> 00:48:47,625 I looked to the right where they were fishing. 963 00:48:47,658 --> 00:48:50,528 And I noticed their fishing poles laying there on the ground, 964 00:48:50,561 --> 00:48:51,896 and they weren't there. 965 00:48:51,929 --> 00:48:54,332 [Robert] And then here come DeOrr. 966 00:48:54,365 --> 00:48:56,667 What were his words? "Little DeOrr?" 967 00:48:56,701 --> 00:48:59,337 And I said, "He's right there." You know. 968 00:48:59,370 --> 00:49:03,174 And then, I see my friend Bob upon the ridge 969 00:49:03,208 --> 00:49:05,810 and I walked up to him and asked him what was going on. 970 00:49:05,843 --> 00:49:07,878 And he said, "DeOrr is missing." 971 00:49:07,912 --> 00:49:10,015 So we all started looking for him. 972 00:49:10,048 --> 00:49:12,617 [interviewer speaking] 973 00:49:12,650 --> 00:49:14,485 [Robert] No. 974 00:49:14,519 --> 00:49:16,687 No, I was the last one to see the kid. 975 00:49:16,721 --> 00:49:21,059 And it wasn't that much... Five-ten minutes. 976 00:49:21,092 --> 00:49:23,361 They was looking for him themselves. 977 00:49:23,394 --> 00:49:25,696 Everyone's gonna have to have someone to blame here. 978 00:49:25,730 --> 00:49:27,565 You know, and unfortunately 979 00:49:27,598 --> 00:49:31,336 the last person to see him is gonna be the one that has the blame, you know. 980 00:49:31,369 --> 00:49:34,872 I mean, there was four people in that campground that day. 981 00:49:34,905 --> 00:49:37,542 If everyone was that worried about it, 982 00:49:37,575 --> 00:49:40,078 the baby should have went with the parents. 983 00:49:40,111 --> 00:49:42,713 He chose not to, 'cause he wanted to stay with my dad. 984 00:49:42,747 --> 00:49:44,249 He wanted candy. 985 00:49:44,282 --> 00:49:46,984 This is the campsite where DeOrr and his family were camping. 986 00:49:47,018 --> 00:49:48,153 It looks like your average campsite. 987 00:49:48,186 --> 00:49:50,555 You've got a fire pit, a picnic table... 988 00:49:50,588 --> 00:49:53,791 Very close to the creek we have heard so much about. 989 00:49:53,824 --> 00:49:55,993 In fact, the creek is just here, 990 00:49:56,027 --> 00:49:57,395 a few yards away. 991 00:49:57,428 --> 00:49:59,497 Notice the terrain down to the water. 992 00:49:59,530 --> 00:50:00,831 It's very steep. 993 00:50:00,865 --> 00:50:03,201 [interviewer speaking] 994 00:50:03,234 --> 00:50:05,570 [Robert] I don't... [chuckles] 995 00:50:05,603 --> 00:50:08,673 I really don't know what happened to little DeOrr. 996 00:50:08,706 --> 00:50:10,208 In my heart or nothing else. 997 00:50:10,241 --> 00:50:12,710 [interviewer speaking] 998 00:50:12,743 --> 00:50:14,045 [Robert chuckles] 999 00:50:14,079 --> 00:50:16,181 [Robert] No, I don't. 1000 00:50:17,582 --> 00:50:20,085 I don't. 1001 00:50:20,118 --> 00:50:23,288 I really don't know what happened to the kid. 1002 00:50:25,490 --> 00:50:27,225 I don't know how much more you need. 1003 00:50:27,258 --> 00:50:29,194 It would be nice to get him back. 1004 00:50:29,227 --> 00:50:31,562 That's the only thing that I can say. 1005 00:50:33,731 --> 00:50:37,835 We stayed up there until about, you know, the... 1006 00:50:37,868 --> 00:50:39,337 the Red Cross left. 1007 00:50:39,370 --> 00:50:43,408 Till law enforcement told us we could go home, so... 1008 00:50:45,443 --> 00:50:47,078 [Nate] And just coincidentally, 1009 00:50:47,112 --> 00:50:49,080 above where DeOrr disappeared, 1010 00:50:49,114 --> 00:50:50,181 above that campsite, 1011 00:50:50,215 --> 00:50:52,183 there is a large boulder field 1012 00:50:52,217 --> 00:50:55,086 extending an extraordinary distance. 1013 00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:56,921 And that would be one of those area 1014 00:50:56,954 --> 00:50:58,789 that I'd give an intense look at. 1015 00:51:03,328 --> 00:51:05,263 [man] According to Oregon State Police, 1016 00:51:05,296 --> 00:51:09,033 there are 41 missing children in Oregon. 1017 00:51:09,066 --> 00:51:11,402 One of them is Samuel Boehlke. 1018 00:51:11,436 --> 00:51:13,438 He was eight-years-old when he vanished 1019 00:51:13,471 --> 00:51:15,840 at Crater Lake six-and-a-half years ago. 1020 00:51:27,618 --> 00:51:31,156 [Tim] Crater Lake is a magnificent place. 1021 00:51:31,189 --> 00:51:33,023 The first time somebody sees it 1022 00:51:33,057 --> 00:51:35,226 and the 100th time somebody sees it, 1023 00:51:35,260 --> 00:51:37,262 you say, "Wow." 1024 00:51:40,165 --> 00:51:42,233 It is a top of a mountain. 1025 00:51:42,267 --> 00:51:46,404 It was blown off thousands of years ago, 1026 00:51:47,272 --> 00:51:48,973 It was a volcano caldera 1027 00:51:49,006 --> 00:51:50,575 that filled up with water. 1028 00:51:50,608 --> 00:51:55,213 The water is the most incredible blue that you can imagine. 1029 00:51:55,246 --> 00:51:56,814 [Lyle] Knock out beautiful. 1030 00:51:56,847 --> 00:51:59,284 I've been there dozens of times. 1031 00:51:59,317 --> 00:52:00,718 Maybe a hundred times. 1032 00:52:02,253 --> 00:52:04,489 It's one of the most foreign places 1033 00:52:04,522 --> 00:52:07,057 that you can really imagine on Earth. 1034 00:52:07,091 --> 00:52:08,559 Every trip that I've gone there, 1035 00:52:08,593 --> 00:52:11,462 it's also a different kind of a mood. 1036 00:52:18,203 --> 00:52:20,070 Three, two, one. 1037 00:52:20,104 --> 00:52:23,908 The best news about today's search and rescue effort is that the weather... 1038 00:52:23,941 --> 00:52:25,343 As a news guy, 1039 00:52:25,376 --> 00:52:28,246 this was a story that was equally frustrating. 1040 00:52:29,547 --> 00:52:32,183 Some of them just start off bad and they get worse. 1041 00:52:34,819 --> 00:52:37,087 The way I understand Sammy's disappearance is that he was 1042 00:52:37,121 --> 00:52:39,156 visiting Crater Lake with his dad. 1043 00:52:40,358 --> 00:52:43,728 Staying at Diamond Lake Resort. 1044 00:52:45,296 --> 00:52:48,733 He's got some developmental problems. 1045 00:52:48,766 --> 00:52:49,834 Maybe some, uh... 1046 00:52:51,035 --> 00:52:53,904 Some form of autism on a scale. 1047 00:52:53,938 --> 00:52:55,706 While he is at Crater Lake, 1048 00:52:55,740 --> 00:53:00,611 they are near what's called the Cleetwood Cove overlook. 1049 00:53:00,645 --> 00:53:04,382 They got about quarter mile to the east 1050 00:53:04,415 --> 00:53:06,150 of Cleetwood Cove Trail. 1051 00:53:06,183 --> 00:53:09,754 And they parked, and he kind of went running off. 1052 00:53:09,787 --> 00:53:13,057 At some point Sammy crosses the road, and he's up this 1053 00:53:13,090 --> 00:53:17,127 a scree hill of kind of some rock cutout where the road is there. 1054 00:53:17,161 --> 00:53:18,696 And there was a cyclist riding by 1055 00:53:18,729 --> 00:53:20,831 that had stopped to take a photo. 1056 00:53:20,865 --> 00:53:22,300 And Sammy was getting ready, 1057 00:53:22,333 --> 00:53:24,835 or looked like he was gonna throw a rock at the cyclist, 1058 00:53:24,869 --> 00:53:26,504 and the cyclist cautioned him. 1059 00:53:26,537 --> 00:53:29,173 And dad was yelling for Sammy to come back. 1060 00:53:29,206 --> 00:53:33,110 And whether Sammy was just being a boy, 1061 00:53:33,143 --> 00:53:37,882 or if there was something to do with his condition also... 1062 00:53:37,915 --> 00:53:40,050 He ran the other direction. 1063 00:53:40,084 --> 00:53:42,152 His dad ran up the hill after him, 1064 00:53:42,186 --> 00:53:43,921 and he had vanished. 1065 00:53:52,597 --> 00:53:55,300 It gets very, very cold at Crater Lake 1066 00:53:55,333 --> 00:53:56,701 this time of the year. 1067 00:53:56,734 --> 00:53:59,470 I mean, it easily gets down below freezing at night. 1068 00:53:59,504 --> 00:54:04,342 And so, time was really of the essence. 1069 00:54:04,375 --> 00:54:07,645 So, beginning at about six o'clock, Saturday night, 1070 00:54:07,678 --> 00:54:11,482 we started putting searchers into the field. 1071 00:54:12,783 --> 00:54:17,254 That first night we had up to about 25 searchers. 1072 00:54:17,288 --> 00:54:21,426 A combination of foot searchers, 1073 00:54:21,459 --> 00:54:24,429 search dogs and tracking teams. 1074 00:54:24,462 --> 00:54:26,564 That's what we're basing this entire search on. 1075 00:54:26,597 --> 00:54:30,868 We're searching for a live Sammy Boehlke. 1076 00:54:30,901 --> 00:54:35,306 Perhaps burrowed in under some thick vegetation, 1077 00:54:35,340 --> 00:54:36,941 or from a rock overhang. 1078 00:54:39,076 --> 00:54:43,814 We were really involved the next day after Sammy went missing. 1079 00:54:43,848 --> 00:54:46,651 I remember it being a difficult search because of weather. 1080 00:54:46,684 --> 00:54:50,287 Two feet of snow came in the next day. 1081 00:54:50,321 --> 00:54:54,625 And the park, I think, was overwhelmed with 1082 00:54:54,659 --> 00:54:56,527 the people starting to come in. 1083 00:54:56,561 --> 00:54:57,928 They set up staging area, 1084 00:54:57,962 --> 00:55:00,297 and now they've got all of this assistance coming 1085 00:55:00,331 --> 00:55:01,966 to try to help and look. 1086 00:55:02,900 --> 00:55:05,870 [man] We did a limited helicopter search 1087 00:55:05,903 --> 00:55:07,505 on Saturday morning. 1088 00:55:07,538 --> 00:55:11,075 And unfortunately, the weather has been conspiring against us. 1089 00:55:11,108 --> 00:55:14,512 And after about six short passes 1090 00:55:14,545 --> 00:55:17,515 over the search area, the weather socked in, 1091 00:55:17,548 --> 00:55:20,451 the clouds came in, the rains started. 1092 00:55:20,485 --> 00:55:23,053 And we weren't able to fly anymore that day. 1093 00:55:23,087 --> 00:55:25,656 [Lyle] I believe the number that comes to mind 1094 00:55:25,690 --> 00:55:27,925 was they had 174 people up there 1095 00:55:27,958 --> 00:55:30,094 from different search and rescue agencies. 1096 00:55:30,127 --> 00:55:34,365 That included search and rescue units from neighboring counties. 1097 00:55:34,399 --> 00:55:37,067 Helicopters, search dogs... 1098 00:55:39,537 --> 00:55:42,206 The term we use is "last seen point", 1099 00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,274 and that's our reference spot 1100 00:55:44,308 --> 00:55:47,111 usually from where we start our search. 1101 00:55:47,144 --> 00:55:49,714 Well, this is the area where 1102 00:55:49,747 --> 00:55:52,917 Sammy was last seen on Saturday. 1103 00:55:54,018 --> 00:55:56,086 The ridge behind me 1104 00:55:57,755 --> 00:56:00,290 with the kind of dirt slope at the top of that ridge 1105 00:56:00,324 --> 00:56:04,595 was where Sammy was last seen by his father. 1106 00:56:11,168 --> 00:56:14,304 [man] It appears that a National Park is within a county, 1107 00:56:14,338 --> 00:56:17,508 it really is its very own sovereign place. 1108 00:56:17,542 --> 00:56:20,344 And so, we received a phone call 1109 00:56:20,377 --> 00:56:22,680 that there was a missing child there. 1110 00:56:22,713 --> 00:56:27,718 And we were very anxious to send searchers. 1111 00:56:27,752 --> 00:56:30,788 We were wanting to send investigators. 1112 00:56:30,821 --> 00:56:34,759 And the parks often used their own staff, 1113 00:56:34,792 --> 00:56:36,861 uh, initially. 1114 00:56:38,696 --> 00:56:41,632 They are sometimes an island unto themselves 1115 00:56:41,666 --> 00:56:44,569 that it's somewhat exclusive jurisdiction. 1116 00:56:47,572 --> 00:56:50,975 We are over 400 National Parks in the United States, 1117 00:56:51,008 --> 00:56:54,411 which is something that we're very proud of. 1118 00:56:58,449 --> 00:57:02,920 The National Park Service is a unit within the Department of the Interior. 1119 00:57:02,953 --> 00:57:06,290 And within the National Park Service, 1120 00:57:06,323 --> 00:57:07,858 there's a Director of the National Parks, 1121 00:57:07,892 --> 00:57:10,227 and the headquarter is in Washington DC. 1122 00:57:10,260 --> 00:57:13,363 And then there are regions throughout the United States 1123 00:57:13,397 --> 00:57:16,133 where they have responsibility over 1124 00:57:16,166 --> 00:57:17,568 a certain number of the parks. 1125 00:57:17,602 --> 00:57:20,471 [Interviewer speaking] 1126 00:57:23,908 --> 00:57:26,410 I don't recall. I would have... 1127 00:57:26,443 --> 00:57:28,679 I would have regular briefings 1128 00:57:28,713 --> 00:57:30,548 on different things that were going on. 1129 00:57:30,581 --> 00:57:34,552 There were significant national crisis 1130 00:57:34,585 --> 00:57:37,387 where the Secretary of Interior should know. 1131 00:57:37,421 --> 00:57:39,924 There's a whole agency of 23,000 people 1132 00:57:39,957 --> 00:57:42,392 that were more involved in the day to day activity 1133 00:57:42,426 --> 00:57:43,894 of any given person, 1134 00:57:43,928 --> 00:57:46,531 any given incident, or any given park. 1135 00:57:49,066 --> 00:57:52,369 As somebody who's been an avidly outdoor person 1136 00:57:52,402 --> 00:57:53,871 all my life, 1137 00:57:53,904 --> 00:57:56,907 it just is unthinkable to me that there's no accountability 1138 00:57:56,941 --> 00:57:57,975 from our government, 1139 00:57:58,008 --> 00:57:59,744 when it's easy to be accountable, 1140 00:57:59,777 --> 00:58:01,779 especially in this day and age of technology. 1141 00:58:07,585 --> 00:58:09,253 Sometimes records are kept, 1142 00:58:09,286 --> 00:58:11,656 and sometimes records are not kept. 1143 00:58:11,689 --> 00:58:14,692 There's no requirement for the Federal Government to 1144 00:58:14,725 --> 00:58:16,694 keep records of people who go missing 1145 00:58:16,727 --> 00:58:18,162 on Federal lands. 1146 00:58:21,566 --> 00:58:22,933 [man] Thank you. 1147 00:58:22,967 --> 00:58:24,368 [Jennings] In today's day and age, 1148 00:58:24,401 --> 00:58:27,738 we should be collecting as much information as we can, 1149 00:58:27,772 --> 00:58:30,741 and putting it in a database that's open, 1150 00:58:30,775 --> 00:58:33,711 that's not guarded by anyone. 1151 00:58:33,744 --> 00:58:37,748 If we want to help find the next lost person, 1152 00:58:37,782 --> 00:58:41,819 we can learn a lot by what went right in that previous search, 1153 00:58:41,852 --> 00:58:43,588 what went wrong in that previous search. 1154 00:58:43,621 --> 00:58:44,989 What would they have done differently. 1155 00:58:45,022 --> 00:58:47,592 A good record keeping of a search, 1156 00:58:47,625 --> 00:58:49,326 whether it was successful or not, 1157 00:58:49,359 --> 00:58:50,995 needs to be on hand, 1158 00:58:51,028 --> 00:58:53,698 so that the next time we go there, 1159 00:58:53,731 --> 00:58:57,467 the search leader can make informed decisions 1160 00:58:57,501 --> 00:59:00,037 and use resources very wisely. 1161 00:59:00,070 --> 00:59:01,972 In the work I do with missing airplanes, 1162 00:59:02,006 --> 00:59:04,875 we're always trying to look at that missing airplane list. 1163 00:59:06,010 --> 00:59:07,912 When I was sheriff of Klamath County, 1164 00:59:07,945 --> 00:59:11,215 I could get my hands on a list of missing people 1165 00:59:11,248 --> 00:59:13,083 in a matter of minutes. 1166 00:59:13,117 --> 00:59:16,020 If you have areas that you don't even know there's missing people. 1167 00:59:16,053 --> 00:59:19,423 If you have specific jurisdictions 1168 00:59:19,456 --> 00:59:20,825 that don't have that data, 1169 00:59:20,858 --> 00:59:25,429 it makes it really difficult going back to re-investigate 1170 00:59:25,462 --> 00:59:27,064 when more information comes. 1171 00:59:27,665 --> 00:59:29,834 The reality is that if... 1172 00:59:31,101 --> 00:59:33,638 say, park authorities were open about 1173 00:59:33,671 --> 00:59:36,073 how many people are missing, 1174 00:59:36,106 --> 00:59:39,176 from national parks and public parks and wilderness areas, 1175 00:59:39,209 --> 00:59:43,714 then those of us who are going to shove our fear and still go out there, 1176 00:59:43,748 --> 00:59:46,050 we can go out better protected. 1177 00:59:46,083 --> 00:59:47,752 That's what I think authorities should do. 1178 00:59:47,785 --> 00:59:50,054 I think they should come clean and say, "Here's all the information. 1179 00:59:50,087 --> 00:59:50,988 Now you know. 1180 00:59:51,021 --> 00:59:52,156 We don't know what's going on, 1181 00:59:52,189 --> 00:59:54,124 but at least you should protect yourself. 1182 01:00:03,968 --> 01:00:06,771 [Lyle] It's obviously an unsolved mystery. 1183 01:00:06,804 --> 01:00:09,539 Um, it's one of those things that... 1184 01:00:09,573 --> 01:00:11,608 you kind of carry it in the back of your mind 1185 01:00:11,642 --> 01:00:13,844 every time that you go and visit Crater Lake. 1186 01:00:13,878 --> 01:00:15,479 I mean, it's a tourist destination. 1187 01:00:15,512 --> 01:00:17,047 It's a happy place to be. 1188 01:00:17,081 --> 01:00:19,449 But you go up there and you do think 1189 01:00:19,483 --> 01:00:22,920 it's a beautiful place, but it's not without tragedy. 1190 01:00:24,021 --> 01:00:26,757 The strongest theory? While, there's many... 1191 01:00:26,791 --> 01:00:31,595 The strongest theory is that he was in those woods somehow, 1192 01:00:31,628 --> 01:00:34,331 and he likely, in my opinion, 1193 01:00:34,364 --> 01:00:35,733 got covered up by snow, 1194 01:00:35,766 --> 01:00:39,804 and then, maybe became victim of an animal later on. 1195 01:00:41,038 --> 01:00:44,875 I believe that when a child goes missing, 1196 01:00:44,909 --> 01:00:49,079 that you throw every resource you have at it initially. 1197 01:00:49,113 --> 01:00:52,783 And I would have liked to have seen that happen 1198 01:00:52,817 --> 01:00:54,785 with Sammy that night. 1199 01:01:01,425 --> 01:01:03,193 It is the end of month one, 1200 01:01:03,227 --> 01:01:06,563 and the search for two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr. continues. 1201 01:01:06,596 --> 01:01:09,033 Many believe DeOrr isn't on that mountain. 1202 01:01:09,066 --> 01:01:11,368 Search and Rescue and all the townspeople, 1203 01:01:11,401 --> 01:01:12,569 everybody went out there. 1204 01:01:12,602 --> 01:01:14,004 Everybody went out there. 1205 01:01:14,038 --> 01:01:16,440 There's been a lot of people up there looking. A lot. 1206 01:01:16,473 --> 01:01:17,708 A lot of people. 1207 01:01:17,742 --> 01:01:19,844 Even after the search was done, 1208 01:01:19,877 --> 01:01:21,078 there's been people. 1209 01:01:21,111 --> 01:01:23,347 I think he would have been found if he was... 1210 01:01:23,380 --> 01:01:25,415 Don't you? 1211 01:01:25,449 --> 01:01:29,086 Several people have mentioned other people that live in Lemhi County. 1212 01:01:29,119 --> 01:01:31,355 There's a woman that runs a restaurant there. 1213 01:01:31,388 --> 01:01:34,058 Some people have said that she may have been involved. 1214 01:01:34,091 --> 01:01:36,626 [Frank] The mother and father knew that the baby was dead, 1215 01:01:36,660 --> 01:01:38,362 so they said, "Please help us." 1216 01:01:38,395 --> 01:01:41,165 They paid her $1,000 to dispose of the body. 1217 01:01:41,198 --> 01:01:42,599 Police have cleared her. 1218 01:01:42,632 --> 01:01:44,835 There's... I mean, there's so many theories out there. 1219 01:01:44,869 --> 01:01:46,236 People, you know, owe... 1220 01:01:46,270 --> 01:01:48,338 You know, the parents did something to him. 1221 01:01:48,372 --> 01:01:49,807 Or it was an accident. 1222 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:51,708 They said the boy was up there to use that as a ruse 1223 01:01:51,742 --> 01:01:53,878 to say that he's missing. 1224 01:01:53,911 --> 01:01:55,579 But he was never up there to begin with. 1225 01:01:55,612 --> 01:01:56,814 Oh, he was there. 1226 01:01:56,847 --> 01:01:59,817 I've seen him trying to play in the campfire. 1227 01:01:59,850 --> 01:02:01,685 He was playing with his dad. 1228 01:02:01,718 --> 01:02:05,255 Several people have said there's sex offenders that live in town, 1229 01:02:05,289 --> 01:02:07,557 and that maybe they knew this little boy was up there, 1230 01:02:07,591 --> 01:02:10,961 so they concocted this plan to go up there and take him. 1231 01:02:10,995 --> 01:02:14,899 We're thinking more like somebody kidnapped him. 1232 01:02:14,932 --> 01:02:16,733 They'd followed him back to the door 1233 01:02:16,767 --> 01:02:20,204 and caught me when I wasn't looking and snatched him. 1234 01:02:20,237 --> 01:02:23,808 I've heard everything from "Big Foot took DeOrr," 1235 01:02:23,841 --> 01:02:25,309 to maybe a trucker picked him up. 1236 01:02:25,342 --> 01:02:28,478 to maybe he's a child sex slave in Canada. 1237 01:02:29,947 --> 01:02:32,249 A lot of Facebook groups have been set up 1238 01:02:32,282 --> 01:02:35,986 where any time, any sort of update on DeOrr is out, 1239 01:02:36,020 --> 01:02:39,389 they'll post the link and a hundred people will comment. 1240 01:02:43,227 --> 01:02:45,195 [woman] There's probably a dozen different 1241 01:02:45,229 --> 01:02:47,497 Facebook pages out there that people have started. 1242 01:02:47,531 --> 01:02:51,335 And there's a lot of it that's positive support for the family, 1243 01:02:51,368 --> 01:02:54,438 but there's a lot of it that's just condemning. 1244 01:02:54,471 --> 01:02:58,008 Called them murderers, said they're neglectful parents. 1245 01:02:58,042 --> 01:03:00,077 That they should never have kids. 1246 01:03:01,979 --> 01:03:04,781 Social media has its upside, 1247 01:03:04,815 --> 01:03:06,817 but terrible downside, as well. 1248 01:03:06,851 --> 01:03:10,020 People jumping to conclusions, spreading rumors. 1249 01:03:10,054 --> 01:03:13,958 And that just complicates the grief so much more. 1250 01:03:13,991 --> 01:03:16,193 The parents are having to defend themselves 1251 01:03:16,226 --> 01:03:18,963 at the same time as they're trying to grieve, 1252 01:03:18,996 --> 01:03:23,033 and trying to wrap their arms around the fact that their child is missing. 1253 01:03:23,067 --> 01:03:25,369 [man] The family's been accused of drug use, 1254 01:03:25,402 --> 01:03:28,472 and of sleeping with certain people. 1255 01:03:28,505 --> 01:03:32,009 Everything from their looks, to their demeanor, 1256 01:03:32,042 --> 01:03:33,677 to how they speak. 1257 01:03:33,710 --> 01:03:36,580 [Frank] In fact, I even told them, stay off social media. 1258 01:03:36,613 --> 01:03:38,615 I said, you want the broadcast media, 1259 01:03:38,648 --> 01:03:40,885 the print media to be on your side. 1260 01:03:40,918 --> 01:03:42,752 Whatever comes out, 1261 01:03:42,786 --> 01:03:45,322 the social media may misinterpret that 1262 01:03:45,355 --> 01:03:47,291 and say some things that are cruel or not true. 1263 01:03:47,324 --> 01:03:48,758 But don't even pay attention to them. 1264 01:03:48,792 --> 01:03:52,096 And it may be that people have become fixated with this case, 1265 01:03:52,129 --> 01:03:54,131 and they're craving something. 1266 01:03:54,164 --> 01:03:56,366 They want some sort of nugget of news, 1267 01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:57,434 or new information. 1268 01:03:57,467 --> 01:04:00,070 And when they don't get that, they speculate. 1269 01:04:00,104 --> 01:04:03,107 And then it spreads, and you can't control it. 1270 01:04:12,316 --> 01:04:14,018 [birds chirping] 1271 01:04:33,703 --> 01:04:35,672 [Frank] Every time somebody would come around 1272 01:04:35,705 --> 01:04:37,441 who was part of the media, 1273 01:04:37,474 --> 01:04:40,410 they would say, "What blank blank are they doing here? 1274 01:04:41,045 --> 01:04:42,512 Why are they here?" 1275 01:04:42,546 --> 01:04:45,549 And that bothered me as to why would they not want coverage. 1276 01:04:45,582 --> 01:04:48,152 I knew that they were offered Nancy Grace for an hour. 1277 01:04:48,185 --> 01:04:50,087 [Jamie] Good Morning America called them, 1278 01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:51,956 and they wouldn't go. 1279 01:04:51,989 --> 01:04:54,324 It can only help. It can't hurt. 1280 01:04:55,425 --> 01:04:57,194 And at this point, 1281 01:04:57,227 --> 01:05:01,165 having his face plastered everywhere is how we're gonna find him. 1282 01:05:01,198 --> 01:05:03,033 You know, every time somebody goes to Walmart, 1283 01:05:03,067 --> 01:05:05,502 wherever they're at, or get out of their car, 1284 01:05:05,535 --> 01:05:08,305 I want DeOrr's face to be in their mind. 1285 01:05:08,872 --> 01:05:10,607 [door creaking] 1286 01:05:12,809 --> 01:05:14,178 [woman speaking] 1287 01:05:19,416 --> 01:05:22,519 I'm not aware of any manual of how you're supposed to act 1288 01:05:22,552 --> 01:05:24,421 if your child goes missing. 1289 01:05:24,454 --> 01:05:27,191 You know, so, um... 1290 01:05:28,758 --> 01:05:32,096 It's extremely stressful for them. 1291 01:05:32,129 --> 01:05:34,464 And then, when you have people, 1292 01:05:35,765 --> 01:05:38,302 you know, trying to make assumptions 1293 01:05:38,335 --> 01:05:41,805 and judgments without a lot of information, 1294 01:05:41,838 --> 01:05:43,507 it's gotta be very difficult. 1295 01:05:45,542 --> 01:05:46,943 [line ringing] 1296 01:05:48,478 --> 01:05:50,047 [over answering machine] Hi, this is Jessica. 1297 01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:51,848 Leave me a message and I'll get right back to you. 1298 01:05:51,881 --> 01:05:52,949 [beep] 1299 01:05:54,985 --> 01:05:56,886 I asked DeOrr why she was freaking out on me 1300 01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:58,288 when you told me it was okay. 1301 01:05:58,322 --> 01:06:00,690 He says, "I told Jess and she doesn't like the idea." 1302 01:06:02,792 --> 01:06:04,794 [Frank] This is the strangest case that I've worked. 1303 01:06:04,828 --> 01:06:08,432 Everybody else, they plead for television coverage. 1304 01:06:08,465 --> 01:06:11,168 They plead for radio coverage, newspaper coverage. 1305 01:06:11,201 --> 01:06:12,336 They plead for this. 1306 01:06:12,369 --> 01:06:13,803 That's what's so strange. 1307 01:06:13,837 --> 01:06:15,672 Why are they acting this way? 1308 01:06:15,705 --> 01:06:17,207 Are they concealing something? 1309 01:06:17,241 --> 01:06:19,643 It-- It doesn't matter. 1310 01:06:19,676 --> 01:06:21,578 It doesn't matter who thinks you're a murderer. 1311 01:06:21,611 --> 01:06:24,514 It doesn't matter who thinks you did what to your son. 1312 01:06:24,548 --> 01:06:27,317 It matters that we need to find your son. 1313 01:06:32,622 --> 01:06:35,492 [Frank] Basically I notified them in writing 1314 01:06:35,525 --> 01:06:38,195 that because they didn't want to cooperate with 1315 01:06:38,228 --> 01:06:41,098 the broadcast media or print media 1316 01:06:41,131 --> 01:06:42,999 that I was gonna back out of the case 1317 01:06:43,033 --> 01:06:46,336 and I withdrew my $20,000 offer of a reward. 1318 01:06:47,204 --> 01:06:49,606 One of them didn't really care. 1319 01:06:49,639 --> 01:06:53,077 The other one said, "Thanks for giving up on our son." 1320 01:06:53,777 --> 01:06:55,645 Brantley. Brantley. 1321 01:06:56,313 --> 01:06:58,048 -Come here. -Go see mom. 1322 01:06:59,083 --> 01:07:01,185 Oh! I have that boy. 1323 01:07:04,154 --> 01:07:05,855 What did you buy mommy? 1324 01:07:05,889 --> 01:07:07,457 What are you watching on YouTube? 1325 01:07:08,625 --> 01:07:09,993 She's not a people person. 1326 01:07:10,026 --> 01:07:12,262 She's like... Oh, look. 1327 01:07:12,296 --> 01:07:14,598 Yeah? Are you gonna tell them, mm? 1328 01:07:16,466 --> 01:07:18,135 Anything for you. 1329 01:07:20,003 --> 01:07:22,672 Like I said... They just... They... 1330 01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:24,474 I don't know. 1331 01:07:24,508 --> 01:07:26,810 I think they cope with it different, 1332 01:07:26,843 --> 01:07:28,112 and maybe they have different ideas 1333 01:07:28,145 --> 01:07:30,647 of what is a good idea to help find their son. 1334 01:07:33,450 --> 01:07:36,086 -[bell ringing] -[man] Is that them? 1335 01:07:37,921 --> 01:07:39,356 That's DeOrr. 1336 01:07:41,691 --> 01:07:43,460 [shutter opening] 1337 01:07:47,131 --> 01:07:48,598 What the [bleep] is going on? 1338 01:07:48,632 --> 01:07:50,367 [DeOrr speaking] 1339 01:07:53,237 --> 01:07:54,571 [Kelsey] Dude, I called... 1340 01:07:54,604 --> 01:07:57,207 [DeOrr] You didn't do anything, I know. 1341 01:07:57,774 --> 01:07:58,875 You're fine. 1342 01:07:58,908 --> 01:08:01,478 -[Kelsey] I just wanted to help. -[DeOrr] You're fine. 1343 01:08:01,511 --> 01:08:02,812 She's just going through shit. 1344 01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:07,184 [DeOrr speaking] 1345 01:08:35,044 --> 01:08:36,280 [shutter closing] 1346 01:08:41,050 --> 01:08:43,253 [clock ticking] 1347 01:08:49,926 --> 01:08:51,261 [clock chiming] 1348 01:09:05,175 --> 01:09:07,244 [man speaking] 1349 01:09:08,412 --> 01:09:10,580 [Edna] I'm Edna, Keith's mother. 1350 01:09:11,648 --> 01:09:15,018 I was visiting my parents in Ritter, Oregon, 1351 01:09:15,051 --> 01:09:19,189 and it was Easter time, Easter came early that year. 1352 01:09:19,223 --> 01:09:21,391 So there was snow on the grounds. 1353 01:09:21,425 --> 01:09:23,527 Patches of snow on the ground. 1354 01:09:25,028 --> 01:09:27,096 It was a cattle, cattle area. 1355 01:09:27,130 --> 01:09:30,567 And my parents were ranchers. 1356 01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,637 And the neighbors were pretty much also. 1357 01:09:37,307 --> 01:09:40,244 He was a happy child, a very happy child. 1358 01:09:44,281 --> 01:09:47,751 He and his older brothers had gone to the barn 1359 01:09:47,784 --> 01:09:49,353 to see a new calf. 1360 01:09:50,854 --> 01:09:52,356 And it was lunch time. 1361 01:09:52,389 --> 01:09:55,792 And so I called the boys and the older two came, 1362 01:09:55,825 --> 01:09:57,661 and Keith didn't. 1363 01:09:59,095 --> 01:10:00,697 And so I said, "Where's your brother?" 1364 01:10:00,730 --> 01:10:02,499 He said, "Oh, he went around the barn." 1365 01:10:02,532 --> 01:10:05,802 And so, we went to find him, 1366 01:10:06,736 --> 01:10:08,204 and he wasn't there. 1367 01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:13,677 We were able to start a search immediately for him. 1368 01:10:13,710 --> 01:10:16,980 It was long before Search and Rescue was organized 1369 01:10:17,013 --> 01:10:17,947 like it is today, 1370 01:10:17,981 --> 01:10:19,483 but they knew how to search. 1371 01:10:19,516 --> 01:10:23,320 And so they went within speaking distance of each other 1372 01:10:23,353 --> 01:10:26,256 so that they were able to communicate. 1373 01:10:26,290 --> 01:10:27,924 Everyone was just marvelous. 1374 01:10:27,957 --> 01:10:30,727 We felt that there was about 200 people there. 1375 01:10:32,296 --> 01:10:34,764 And they searched through the night. 1376 01:10:39,903 --> 01:10:41,405 I didn't know until much later 1377 01:10:41,438 --> 01:10:44,107 that he had gone through this herd of cattle. 1378 01:10:44,140 --> 01:10:45,875 But they found his footprints. 1379 01:10:53,350 --> 01:10:54,551 [Les] Even as the crow flies, 1380 01:10:54,584 --> 01:10:56,286 his journey from his house 1381 01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:58,121 to where his tracks were found, 1382 01:10:58,154 --> 01:10:59,889 is three miles. 1383 01:10:59,923 --> 01:11:03,693 And then, his body is found way over here. 1384 01:11:04,093 --> 01:11:05,995 Five miles away. 1385 01:11:06,029 --> 01:11:07,364 Eight miles in total. 1386 01:11:08,532 --> 01:11:10,166 [Edna] He was stiff, too. 1387 01:11:10,199 --> 01:11:12,602 His little body couldn't move. 1388 01:11:12,636 --> 01:11:16,039 He was found face down in the snow, and... 1389 01:11:16,072 --> 01:11:19,476 his little face was scratched pretty bad when we found him. 1390 01:11:22,446 --> 01:11:25,214 It was at lunch time when he had disappeared. 1391 01:11:25,248 --> 01:11:28,251 And it was about seven o'clock the next morning 1392 01:11:28,284 --> 01:11:29,686 when he was found. 1393 01:11:33,657 --> 01:11:36,092 [Les] Eight miles. That's as the crow flies. 1394 01:11:36,125 --> 01:11:39,596 It's impossible to walk out here as a crow would fly. 1395 01:11:40,664 --> 01:11:43,299 In a span of less than 24 hours, 1396 01:11:43,333 --> 01:11:45,535 you'd have to believe that this two-year-old 1397 01:11:45,569 --> 01:11:48,071 covered perhaps as many as twelve miles. 1398 01:11:51,174 --> 01:11:53,610 [panting] 1399 01:11:53,643 --> 01:11:55,278 As it was... 1400 01:11:55,311 --> 01:11:58,081 his clothing was found ripped, 1401 01:11:59,315 --> 01:12:02,552 and we figure it's likely from barbwire fences. 1402 01:12:02,586 --> 01:12:04,821 Either going through them or under them. 1403 01:12:13,262 --> 01:12:16,400 And even with a full moon tonight, 1404 01:12:16,433 --> 01:12:19,536 I can't see anything going through this bush. 1405 01:12:19,569 --> 01:12:21,805 So if I'm a two-year-old child, 1406 01:12:21,838 --> 01:12:24,608 and I've got to walk through this, or crawl through this, 1407 01:12:24,641 --> 01:12:26,042 I get to this time of night... 1408 01:12:27,143 --> 01:12:29,312 I can't see Keith going anywhere. 1409 01:12:29,345 --> 01:12:30,814 I can't go anywhere. 1410 01:12:32,348 --> 01:12:35,719 How a two-year-old could travel 1411 01:12:35,752 --> 01:12:38,755 the topography I'm traveling now... 1412 01:12:38,788 --> 01:12:44,661 Little shoes and it was freezing temperatures. 1413 01:12:44,694 --> 01:12:46,763 Even if he was a kid full of energy. 1414 01:12:53,369 --> 01:12:56,640 This is roughly the area the searchers found him. 1415 01:12:56,673 --> 01:13:00,910 His father was about 100 yards that way. 1416 01:13:02,579 --> 01:13:04,113 And he's found here. 1417 01:13:04,881 --> 01:13:06,416 Face down in the snow. 1418 01:13:06,450 --> 01:13:08,852 Hat and coat beside him. 1419 01:13:08,885 --> 01:13:11,888 Searcher finds him. Father one, maybe 200 yards away. 1420 01:13:11,921 --> 01:13:14,157 Runs over, picks him up, 1421 01:13:15,258 --> 01:13:16,593 and he's alive. 1422 01:13:28,538 --> 01:13:31,274 Over the years, in the Ritter area, 1423 01:13:31,307 --> 01:13:32,776 when we'd go visit there, 1424 01:13:32,809 --> 01:13:34,410 someone would come visit and say, 1425 01:13:34,444 --> 01:13:37,180 "Oh, yeah. I remember we looked for you. 1426 01:13:37,213 --> 01:13:38,715 Thank goodness you were found." 1427 01:13:38,748 --> 01:13:40,950 And I'd say, "Oh, that's great and thank you for looking." 1428 01:13:45,722 --> 01:13:48,391 This is the cap that I wore. 1429 01:13:48,424 --> 01:13:51,661 It's got little earmuffs on 'em. 1430 01:13:51,695 --> 01:13:54,330 This is my little cap. 1431 01:13:54,363 --> 01:13:57,266 And this here's one of my shoes 1432 01:13:57,300 --> 01:14:00,504 that I had on. 1433 01:14:00,537 --> 01:14:03,773 This is my jacket that I was carrying with me. 1434 01:14:03,807 --> 01:14:05,742 I took it off for whatever reason, 1435 01:14:05,775 --> 01:14:10,780 and I was carrying my cap in my coat, in my hand, 1436 01:14:10,814 --> 01:14:15,418 I had alongside me as I was laying prone on the ground. 1437 01:14:15,451 --> 01:14:17,854 I had that in my hand. 1438 01:14:17,887 --> 01:14:21,124 This here is my shirt that I had. 1439 01:14:21,157 --> 01:14:23,326 [clock chiming] 1440 01:14:23,359 --> 01:14:28,131 And then, as you can see, on my bib overalls, 1441 01:14:28,164 --> 01:14:30,333 you can see the tears 1442 01:14:30,366 --> 01:14:32,836 on them where I caught it in the fence, 1443 01:14:32,869 --> 01:14:34,804 trying to go through the fence and stuff. 1444 01:14:35,605 --> 01:14:38,274 And it tore the... 1445 01:14:38,307 --> 01:14:40,544 and caught the... I got a tear in the back 1446 01:14:40,577 --> 01:14:42,145 where the barbwires caught it. 1447 01:14:42,546 --> 01:14:44,047 And, uh... 1448 01:14:45,048 --> 01:14:45,982 tore it. 1449 01:14:47,016 --> 01:14:49,586 Those are the clothes my mom kept 1450 01:14:50,319 --> 01:14:52,221 for all these years. 1451 01:14:56,793 --> 01:14:58,628 [Edna] We just never gave up hope. 1452 01:14:58,662 --> 01:15:02,498 And he was found. 1453 01:15:04,300 --> 01:15:08,204 Although he'd suffered frostbite on his hands and feet, 1454 01:15:08,237 --> 01:15:11,507 we were just fortunate that he was found when he was. 1455 01:15:15,712 --> 01:15:17,714 We never made a big issue of him being lost, 1456 01:15:17,747 --> 01:15:20,850 because we didn't want to frighten him, 1457 01:15:20,884 --> 01:15:22,619 and to make him afraid of dark, 1458 01:15:22,652 --> 01:15:24,420 or to be frightened. 1459 01:15:24,453 --> 01:15:26,189 I felt he'd gone through that. 1460 01:15:28,658 --> 01:15:30,660 No nightmares about it at all. 1461 01:15:30,694 --> 01:15:34,130 I don't recall at all anything about it. 1462 01:15:34,163 --> 01:15:36,766 They asked me what happened and I told them I didn't know. 1463 01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:38,702 I didn't know what happened and they asked me. 1464 01:15:38,735 --> 01:15:43,707 I had quite a few scratches on my face and hands. 1465 01:15:43,740 --> 01:15:47,376 Someone asked me how I got those and I told them the cat had scratched me. 1466 01:15:47,410 --> 01:15:49,679 So, I had no recollection 1467 01:15:49,713 --> 01:15:52,181 of what had happened to me. 1468 01:15:54,918 --> 01:15:59,055 It's the kind of baffling case that has you sit back and go, 1469 01:15:59,088 --> 01:16:01,224 nothing that I can put my finger on 1470 01:16:01,257 --> 01:16:03,727 in a normal set of circumstances in the wilderness 1471 01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:05,829 makes any sense to this case whatsoever. 1472 01:16:05,862 --> 01:16:08,197 It's something other. 1473 01:16:19,142 --> 01:16:20,576 [DeOrr] Very quiet now. 1474 01:16:20,610 --> 01:16:22,378 'Cause that's not usual for him. 1475 01:16:22,411 --> 01:16:25,782 You get all kinds of little motor noises coming out of there from him, 1476 01:16:25,815 --> 01:16:28,317 and he's just [imitates car engine] with his cars. 1477 01:16:28,351 --> 01:16:29,919 It's very quiet. 1478 01:16:29,953 --> 01:16:32,588 [Jessica] Usually you're stepping on Hot Wheels, 1479 01:16:33,189 --> 01:16:34,824 or Legos, or something. 1480 01:16:34,858 --> 01:16:36,492 [DeOrr] The whole house is the same way. 1481 01:16:36,525 --> 01:16:37,961 The whole house is very quiet now. 1482 01:16:37,994 --> 01:16:41,064 It's just... It's not anywhere at home. 1483 01:16:41,097 --> 01:16:44,000 You go with it day by day hoping you can get your life back. 1484 01:16:44,701 --> 01:16:46,770 Hoping he's okay, because 1485 01:16:47,303 --> 01:16:48,604 this ain't it. 1486 01:16:49,605 --> 01:16:51,074 This sucks. 1487 01:16:56,579 --> 01:16:58,014 [Jessica laughing] 1488 01:17:01,484 --> 01:17:03,219 [Jessica] Little man. 1489 01:17:09,458 --> 01:17:12,829 Everyday I was happy, because I got to spend it with him. 1490 01:17:12,862 --> 01:17:16,165 I could go to work and take him to work with me 1491 01:17:16,199 --> 01:17:18,201 and still have that time with him. 1492 01:17:18,234 --> 01:17:20,336 And then, we'd come home and make dinner 1493 01:17:20,369 --> 01:17:22,839 and give him his bath, 1494 01:17:22,872 --> 01:17:24,473 and put jammies on, 1495 01:17:24,507 --> 01:17:26,375 and watch a little TV and play, 1496 01:17:26,409 --> 01:17:29,545 and then read him a story or sing him a song 1497 01:17:29,578 --> 01:17:31,014 to put him to sleep, 1498 01:17:31,047 --> 01:17:32,816 and give him about ten million hugs 1499 01:17:32,849 --> 01:17:35,484 before I could leave the room. 1500 01:17:35,518 --> 01:17:39,055 And I miss those days. 1501 01:17:41,090 --> 01:17:42,025 A lot. 1502 01:17:47,864 --> 01:17:49,999 [interviewer speaking] 1503 01:17:50,566 --> 01:17:53,402 Um, what was it? 1504 01:17:53,436 --> 01:17:54,904 -About a month? -Three... 1505 01:17:54,938 --> 01:17:56,239 Yeah, it was like a month. 1506 01:17:56,272 --> 01:17:58,441 [both] Three weeks to a month after he went missing. 1507 01:17:58,474 --> 01:18:00,343 Is when they brought the FBI in. 1508 01:18:00,376 --> 01:18:03,246 The FBI originally called Lemhi County and said, 1509 01:18:03,279 --> 01:18:04,714 "We heard about this case. 1510 01:18:04,748 --> 01:18:06,615 Do you guys need any assistance? 1511 01:18:06,649 --> 01:18:08,084 We'll help you out." 1512 01:18:08,117 --> 01:18:10,887 And they said, "Yeah, can you handle, like, 1513 01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:14,157 the forensic part of this?" 1514 01:18:14,190 --> 01:18:15,792 [Nate] Right off he showed you inside his truck. 1515 01:18:15,825 --> 01:18:17,160 It's an old beat up truck. 1516 01:18:17,193 --> 01:18:19,829 There was still the light, the dome light. 1517 01:18:19,863 --> 01:18:23,032 It was covered with FBI evidence tape. 1518 01:18:23,066 --> 01:18:24,734 That's one thing they hadn't taped down. 1519 01:18:24,768 --> 01:18:26,435 So he did let them swab their truck. 1520 01:18:26,469 --> 01:18:30,206 We were told that a report should come out within six to eight weeks. 1521 01:18:30,239 --> 01:18:32,575 And we're at the eight week mark now, 1522 01:18:32,608 --> 01:18:34,310 with still no answers. 1523 01:18:34,343 --> 01:18:38,281 They're coming up with any sort of theory, or any sort of hypothesis 1524 01:18:38,314 --> 01:18:40,483 as to what could have happened with DeOrr Kunz. 1525 01:18:40,516 --> 01:18:43,853 We want them to come back and say we have reason to believe 1526 01:18:43,887 --> 01:18:46,289 because of this and this that he was abducted. 1527 01:18:46,322 --> 01:18:47,824 So we're now... 1528 01:18:47,857 --> 01:18:51,227 We're looking at tis individual. We're looking here... We're doing... 1529 01:18:51,260 --> 01:18:53,129 It gives us more of a direction to go in. 1530 01:18:53,162 --> 01:18:55,098 Some people are, like, they're afraid of the FBI. 1531 01:18:55,131 --> 01:18:57,666 No, we are not. I have nothing to hide. 1532 01:18:57,700 --> 01:18:59,936 I have no-- I didn't do anything wrong. 1533 01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:06,075 Bob's friend Issac stayed in his own tent. 1534 01:19:06,109 --> 01:19:07,543 Bob stayed in the camper. 1535 01:19:07,576 --> 01:19:10,746 Jessica, I and little DeOrr stayed in Bob's Suburban. 1536 01:19:11,747 --> 01:19:13,282 I got out of the Suburban that morning 1537 01:19:13,316 --> 01:19:15,651 and they were actually... Her and my son were 1538 01:19:15,684 --> 01:19:17,053 already up and out. 1539 01:19:17,086 --> 01:19:19,856 And they were just getting ready to start breakfast. 1540 01:19:19,889 --> 01:19:23,092 So we decided, okay, well, "Bob, what's the plan?" 1541 01:19:23,126 --> 01:19:25,294 Him and Issac were gonna go fishing. 1542 01:19:25,328 --> 01:19:27,196 And I said we're gonna go down to Leadore, 1543 01:19:27,230 --> 01:19:29,132 get a few things and we'll come back up. 1544 01:19:29,165 --> 01:19:32,035 And he says, "Well, be back here by 1:00 if you can." 1545 01:19:33,970 --> 01:19:36,572 Got our groceries and Jessica went to the restroom. 1546 01:19:36,605 --> 01:19:38,674 I loaded little DeOrr in the truck with the groceries, 1547 01:19:38,707 --> 01:19:41,044 and she came out and we headed back up. 1548 01:19:41,744 --> 01:19:43,913 It's 45 minutes up. 1549 01:19:43,947 --> 01:19:46,549 And Bob and Issac were just coming back into camp, 1550 01:19:46,582 --> 01:19:50,719 'cause they were fishing down the creek right by where we were camping. 1551 01:19:50,753 --> 01:19:53,289 And Jessica got little DeOrr out. 1552 01:19:57,293 --> 01:20:00,096 [Jessica] And we parked where that jeep is right now. 1553 01:20:01,764 --> 01:20:04,533 My grandpa was sitting in a chair right here. 1554 01:20:04,567 --> 01:20:08,437 And we had our double chair right about in here. 1555 01:20:10,173 --> 01:20:13,642 And I handed my grandpa the candy that we bought him. 1556 01:20:13,676 --> 01:20:16,812 Issac and my grandpa were talking about how they went fishing 1557 01:20:16,846 --> 01:20:18,982 in the creek and caught fish. 1558 01:20:19,015 --> 01:20:21,851 Just down... up in there. 1559 01:20:21,885 --> 01:20:25,654 And we decided that we were gonna go up and 1560 01:20:25,688 --> 01:20:28,291 look to see if there was fish in the creek. 1561 01:20:28,324 --> 01:20:30,393 After were decided that we're gonna go up there, 1562 01:20:30,426 --> 01:20:34,964 I asked my grandpa if it was okay if we could leave little man with him. 1563 01:20:34,998 --> 01:20:36,966 And he said, "Yeah, he's fine. 1564 01:20:38,501 --> 01:20:40,069 He wants candy anyways." 1565 01:20:40,103 --> 01:20:42,771 And he was about ready due for a nap, anyway, 1566 01:20:42,805 --> 01:20:45,008 and you could tell he was getting pretty tired. 1567 01:20:45,041 --> 01:20:46,910 Se we were gonna leave him with Bob, 1568 01:20:46,943 --> 01:20:49,145 instead of making him walk and all that. 1569 01:20:49,178 --> 01:20:51,147 So we headed up this road right here. 1570 01:20:51,180 --> 01:20:53,582 Right about where that smaller tree is. 1571 01:20:53,616 --> 01:20:56,752 We stopped and noticed that little man was following us. 1572 01:20:56,785 --> 01:20:58,787 So DeOrr asked him, 1573 01:20:58,821 --> 01:21:01,590 "Do you wanna go with us, or do you wanna stay with Grandpa Bob?" 1574 01:21:01,624 --> 01:21:04,027 And he said, "No, yeah." 1575 01:21:04,060 --> 01:21:07,263 And turned around and started walking back towards my grandpa. 1576 01:21:07,296 --> 01:21:11,434 So we realized he was gonna go back to camp with my grandpa, 1577 01:21:11,467 --> 01:21:12,668 so we headed up. 1578 01:21:12,701 --> 01:21:15,504 I figured he was with my grandpa, he was fine. 1579 01:21:17,873 --> 01:21:20,243 And we walked up to the creek, 1580 01:21:20,276 --> 01:21:23,179 and Issac said, "Right here, right here is where we 1581 01:21:23,212 --> 01:21:25,714 were fishing and caught fish." 1582 01:21:25,748 --> 01:21:30,119 And he turned around and walked back towards this way. 1583 01:21:30,153 --> 01:21:33,522 DeOrr and I stayed up by the creek and kinda just 1584 01:21:33,556 --> 01:21:38,894 looked in the water and looked to see if we could see any fish. 1585 01:21:38,928 --> 01:21:41,164 I started getting my fishing gear ready, 1586 01:21:41,197 --> 01:21:44,067 'cause I figured this is kind of a good spot to fish. 1587 01:21:44,100 --> 01:21:47,170 And there was one spot that had minnows in it. 1588 01:21:47,203 --> 01:21:48,371 And they were just stuck there. 1589 01:21:48,404 --> 01:21:49,973 They couldn't get out from the low level. 1590 01:21:50,006 --> 01:21:52,475 And I thought, "God, this will be neat for him to see." 1591 01:21:53,709 --> 01:21:54,910 Jessica stayed at the creek, 1592 01:21:54,944 --> 01:21:56,445 and I walked up the bank 1593 01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:58,914 and got back up on the bank and went towards camp 1594 01:21:58,948 --> 01:22:00,916 and I yelled to Bob where's little DeOrr. 1595 01:22:00,950 --> 01:22:05,154 I could hear voices up in the camping area. 1596 01:22:05,188 --> 01:22:06,922 And you can actually, where I'm standing right now, 1597 01:22:06,956 --> 01:22:08,958 you can actually see the table, 1598 01:22:08,992 --> 01:22:11,694 the picnic table that's in our campground. 1599 01:22:11,727 --> 01:22:14,163 But I could hear DeOrr's voice. 1600 01:22:14,197 --> 01:22:15,931 I just couldn't make out what he was saying. 1601 01:22:15,965 --> 01:22:17,266 I hollered to him, "Where's my son?" 1602 01:22:17,300 --> 01:22:18,901 And he says, "I don't know." 1603 01:22:18,934 --> 01:22:21,404 And I said, "Bob, where's my son?" 1604 01:22:21,437 --> 01:22:24,140 And he said, "He headed up that way towards you guys." 1605 01:22:24,173 --> 01:22:28,111 I saw somebody walking 1606 01:22:28,144 --> 01:22:30,246 in between these trees right here. 1607 01:22:30,279 --> 01:22:32,048 Realized that it was Issac, 1608 01:22:32,081 --> 01:22:33,782 with the fishing stuff in his hand. 1609 01:22:33,816 --> 01:22:36,019 And he was walking towards the creek. 1610 01:22:36,052 --> 01:22:37,120 And then, by that time, 1611 01:22:37,153 --> 01:22:39,088 I looked back at the creek for a split, 1612 01:22:39,122 --> 01:22:41,724 like, maybe ten seconds. 1613 01:22:41,757 --> 01:22:43,659 And by then, I heard DeOrr yelling. 1614 01:22:43,692 --> 01:22:45,461 And I turned around and looked 1615 01:22:45,494 --> 01:22:46,795 straight across from me, 1616 01:22:46,829 --> 01:22:49,065 and he was right there, saying... 1617 01:22:49,098 --> 01:22:51,200 "Little man's gone. He's not in the campground. 1618 01:22:51,234 --> 01:22:52,568 We can't find him." 1619 01:22:52,601 --> 01:22:54,537 We came up this way, 1620 01:22:54,570 --> 01:22:56,372 asking where my grandpa... 1621 01:22:56,405 --> 01:22:59,508 Where he had gone last time he saw him. 1622 01:22:59,542 --> 01:23:01,810 And he saw him right next to that pine tree, 1623 01:23:01,844 --> 01:23:03,012 kinda sitting down. 1624 01:23:03,046 --> 01:23:05,248 He said he was either playing with the dirt, 1625 01:23:05,281 --> 01:23:07,616 or playing with his shoes. 1626 01:23:10,453 --> 01:23:13,789 Once I knew that he was missing, that was like, 1627 01:23:13,822 --> 01:23:15,524 what really made me panic 1628 01:23:15,558 --> 01:23:18,327 is, like, I don't want him to drown. 1629 01:23:18,361 --> 01:23:21,597 [DeOrr] He's not in the camper, he's not right in this area. 1630 01:23:21,630 --> 01:23:23,266 And she started searching by the creek, 1631 01:23:23,299 --> 01:23:25,234 and I'm up and around. 1632 01:23:25,268 --> 01:23:28,337 We search for about 20 minutes or so. 1633 01:23:28,371 --> 01:23:29,972 And I didn't hear him. I didn't... 1634 01:23:30,005 --> 01:23:31,574 We were panicking, we didn't hear him. 1635 01:23:31,607 --> 01:23:35,010 So we decided we needed to call, to summon Search and Rescue. 1636 01:23:36,445 --> 01:23:39,782 A lot of what happened just doesn't make sense. 1637 01:23:39,815 --> 01:23:43,186 'Cause he would've... I think he would've screamed, 1638 01:23:43,219 --> 01:23:45,188 or tried to say, "Mama." 1639 01:23:45,221 --> 01:23:48,023 Within the hour of him being going missing, 1640 01:23:48,057 --> 01:23:50,293 it rained and then it got really hot. 1641 01:23:50,326 --> 01:23:53,096 So he would've taken his jacket off. 1642 01:23:53,129 --> 01:23:56,065 And we didn't find anything. That place was scoured. 1643 01:23:56,099 --> 01:23:59,835 The only thing that I'm sure of is that Jessica that day was with me. 1644 01:23:59,868 --> 01:24:01,370 She was with me and I was with her. 1645 01:24:01,404 --> 01:24:03,206 So the only thing that I'm sure of is that 1646 01:24:03,239 --> 01:24:05,108 she had nothing to do with it, I had nothing to do with it. 1647 01:24:05,141 --> 01:24:06,675 'Cause we were with each other. 1648 01:24:08,177 --> 01:24:10,045 And I was searching the creek, 1649 01:24:10,079 --> 01:24:12,748 and in the water the whole time up until 1650 01:24:12,781 --> 01:24:17,486 Ray, um, Stevens got here with Search and Rescue. 1651 01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:21,657 And he asked me to come up and sit in the campground. 1652 01:24:24,527 --> 01:24:27,096 That as a parent is one of the hardest things 1653 01:24:27,130 --> 01:24:29,398 when you have all these professionals telling you 1654 01:24:29,432 --> 01:24:31,300 stay at the camp, and they have reasonings for that. 1655 01:24:31,334 --> 01:24:34,203 Because if they find... If they found my son, 1656 01:24:34,237 --> 01:24:36,472 then they gotta go looking for me. 1657 01:24:36,505 --> 01:24:37,540 And... 1658 01:24:37,573 --> 01:24:39,908 Or they didn't want us to react, you know, 1659 01:24:39,942 --> 01:24:42,345 and go after somebody that we thought 1660 01:24:42,378 --> 01:24:43,712 had something to do with it. 1661 01:24:43,746 --> 01:24:45,348 When your child goes missing, 1662 01:24:45,381 --> 01:24:48,117 you're a number one suspect. 1663 01:24:48,151 --> 01:24:49,518 It's sad, but it's true. 1664 01:24:51,420 --> 01:24:54,223 You got grieving parents that are already riled up, 1665 01:24:54,257 --> 01:24:55,791 and you know, you've gone through 1666 01:24:55,824 --> 01:24:58,761 literally the most living hell any parent can think of. 1667 01:24:58,794 --> 01:25:01,464 And you get hooked up to a machine and... 1668 01:25:01,497 --> 01:25:03,132 The fact is... 1669 01:25:03,166 --> 01:25:05,668 It's hard. There was no problems, 1670 01:25:05,701 --> 01:25:07,470 but they called a... 1671 01:25:08,537 --> 01:25:09,738 Something pass. 1672 01:25:10,939 --> 01:25:12,608 Inconclusive pass. 1673 01:25:12,641 --> 01:25:15,944 You're scared to death, you're riled up, you're... 1674 01:25:15,978 --> 01:25:17,480 scared for your child, 1675 01:25:17,513 --> 01:25:19,715 you're scared for your family. Your... 1676 01:25:19,748 --> 01:25:21,684 Your mind's going in a million different directions. 1677 01:25:21,717 --> 01:25:23,852 -And nothing is ever... -Nothing makes sense. 1678 01:25:23,886 --> 01:25:26,722 But you don't get any answers out of any of those directions you're going in. 1679 01:25:26,755 --> 01:25:29,158 And so, you get hooked up to a machine like that, 1680 01:25:29,192 --> 01:25:31,994 and everybody's thinks, "Hook 'em up to a polygraph." Go ahead. 1681 01:25:32,027 --> 01:25:33,362 Go right on ahead. I have nothing to hide. 1682 01:25:33,396 --> 01:25:36,599 But just know that they're not very useful. 1683 01:25:40,836 --> 01:25:43,672 [Steve] Well, we still have a missing child. 1684 01:25:46,475 --> 01:25:48,444 You know, I believe he's still out there. 1685 01:25:48,477 --> 01:25:50,479 We just haven't found him yet. 1686 01:25:54,116 --> 01:25:56,385 You know, everybody wants an answer. 1687 01:25:57,486 --> 01:25:59,888 Hopefully some day we'll come up with one. 1688 01:26:05,027 --> 01:26:06,662 [man 1 speaking] 1689 01:26:07,996 --> 01:26:09,432 [man 2] Working on a documentary 1690 01:26:09,465 --> 01:26:12,000 about a little kid that went missing in Leadore. 1691 01:26:12,034 --> 01:26:14,002 [man 1 speaking] 1692 01:26:14,036 --> 01:26:15,204 [man 2] You know about the case? 1693 01:26:15,238 --> 01:26:17,172 [man 1 speaking] 1694 01:26:24,079 --> 01:26:27,516 [interviewer speaking] 1695 01:26:29,352 --> 01:26:32,120 Everything I said, and no matter what I did, 1696 01:26:32,154 --> 01:26:34,623 you're dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. 1697 01:26:34,657 --> 01:26:36,425 I did not want... 1698 01:26:36,459 --> 01:26:38,894 I wanted the media to be on my son, 1699 01:26:38,927 --> 01:26:40,429 not on me, not on Jessica. 1700 01:26:40,463 --> 01:26:41,764 'Cause that doesn't help find him. 1701 01:26:41,797 --> 01:26:44,767 Everything I would say would be twisted. 1702 01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:46,001 Yeah, we were actually... 1703 01:26:46,034 --> 01:26:48,604 The whole reason why we haven't been on the news a lot, 1704 01:26:48,637 --> 01:26:50,906 and doing this stuff is because 1705 01:26:50,939 --> 01:26:53,509 we're actually out there. 1706 01:26:53,542 --> 01:26:57,045 Like, I don't even know how many times we... 1707 01:26:57,079 --> 01:26:58,514 How many hours, how many days, 1708 01:26:58,547 --> 01:27:01,484 how many weekends, how much money, 1709 01:27:01,517 --> 01:27:04,787 our money that we have spent just going up there 1710 01:27:04,820 --> 01:27:05,854 to search for him. 1711 01:27:05,888 --> 01:27:09,358 But all these people saying their hearsay stuff, 1712 01:27:09,392 --> 01:27:11,760 and saying that, you know, there's something wrong, 1713 01:27:11,794 --> 01:27:13,596 because we're not on the news and this and this and this. 1714 01:27:13,629 --> 01:27:16,231 No, we're doing something for our son. 1715 01:27:16,265 --> 01:27:19,902 You're right. I didn't wanna spend all this time in front of the public every day 1716 01:27:19,935 --> 01:27:21,937 and pet the pride of everybody 1717 01:27:21,970 --> 01:27:23,439 to let them know that I didn't do anything. 1718 01:27:23,472 --> 01:27:24,873 Because I know I didn't do anything. 1719 01:27:24,907 --> 01:27:26,241 I know she didn't do anything. 1720 01:27:26,275 --> 01:27:28,010 I had one job and I still have that job. 1721 01:27:28,043 --> 01:27:30,045 Find that little boy. 1722 01:27:30,078 --> 01:27:33,616 He knew his name was DeOrr Jay Kunz. 1723 01:27:33,649 --> 01:27:37,653 And he knew his mama's name was Jessica Mitchell. 1724 01:27:37,686 --> 01:27:40,389 I just pray that if someone does see him, 1725 01:27:40,423 --> 01:27:42,825 you know, that they ask, "What is your name?" 1726 01:27:42,858 --> 01:27:45,828 Because I believe that he will still be able to tell you. 1727 01:27:49,465 --> 01:27:51,133 [man] When individuals aren't found 1728 01:27:51,166 --> 01:27:52,868 on a Search and Rescue, 1729 01:27:52,901 --> 01:27:55,270 I can tell you that 1730 01:27:55,304 --> 01:27:57,473 it's something that you think about regularly. 1731 01:28:02,277 --> 01:28:04,313 You revisit in your mind. 1732 01:28:06,315 --> 01:28:08,517 There's times you go out and look yourself. 1733 01:28:09,618 --> 01:28:11,420 [tooting] 1734 01:28:12,455 --> 01:28:16,792 And some of those cases will haunt you forever. 1735 01:28:34,810 --> 01:28:38,747 Throughout my tenure as a sheriff, 1736 01:28:38,781 --> 01:28:40,616 there was nothing more important 1737 01:28:40,649 --> 01:28:42,485 than keeping communication open 1738 01:28:42,518 --> 01:28:44,219 with the family. 1739 01:28:44,252 --> 01:28:47,089 There's only one case in their mind that still exists. 1740 01:28:48,290 --> 01:28:50,258 And it makes it incredibly important 1741 01:28:50,292 --> 01:28:53,662 to make sure that they feel that you haven't forgotten that. 1742 01:28:53,696 --> 01:28:56,031 That somebody's still looking at it. 1743 01:29:05,474 --> 01:29:07,342 I don't come up here that often. 1744 01:29:07,376 --> 01:29:09,512 I feel guilty, because I feel like, 1745 01:29:09,545 --> 01:29:12,548 you know, what if my son were up here at the time, you know, 1746 01:29:12,581 --> 01:29:14,950 I didn't know what happened, where he was. 1747 01:29:14,983 --> 01:29:17,986 I felt guilty not coming up here at the same time. 1748 01:29:18,020 --> 01:29:20,656 It was just too painful. 1749 01:29:26,395 --> 01:29:29,932 It was hard comprehending that that was it. 1750 01:29:29,965 --> 01:29:31,366 You know... 1751 01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:33,636 I was going down the mountain and I was going home without my son. 1752 01:29:34,202 --> 01:29:36,605 It was the hardest thing 1753 01:29:37,606 --> 01:29:39,107 I think I've ever done in my life, 1754 01:29:39,141 --> 01:29:41,977 drive off this mountain. 1755 01:29:42,010 --> 01:29:45,080 The Big South Trail, right here. I've never been up here with snow on the trail. 1756 01:29:53,522 --> 01:29:56,291 When you come up here and you see the beauty 1757 01:29:56,324 --> 01:29:58,193 and you think, 1758 01:29:58,226 --> 01:30:00,362 "Did my son lose his life up here?" 1759 01:30:00,395 --> 01:30:02,097 I think to myself, 1760 01:30:02,130 --> 01:30:05,000 "Gee, Jaryd, you sure picked a beautiful place to hang out." 1761 01:30:18,246 --> 01:30:19,882 [sighs deeply] 1762 01:30:19,915 --> 01:30:21,750 [voice breaking] I don't comprehend 1763 01:30:22,384 --> 01:30:24,119 an animal getting... 1764 01:30:24,620 --> 01:30:26,655 It's too painful. 1765 01:30:35,430 --> 01:30:39,468 I mean, I visualize many times... 1766 01:30:40,503 --> 01:30:42,571 I visualize him walking down the trail 1767 01:30:42,605 --> 01:30:45,474 and some stupid cat jumps in... 1768 01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:52,014 I visualize that a lot of times. 1769 01:30:52,047 --> 01:30:54,349 But at the same time, I never believe it either. 1770 01:30:54,382 --> 01:30:55,884 But I still visualize it, 1771 01:30:55,918 --> 01:30:59,187 because that was something that was constantly thrown at me. 1772 01:31:10,499 --> 01:31:13,468 [man] I can also imagine that it haunts them 1773 01:31:13,502 --> 01:31:15,337 for the rest of their lives. 1774 01:31:15,370 --> 01:31:17,172 Just the weird circumstances, 1775 01:31:17,205 --> 01:31:18,974 and the fact that they will probably never 1776 01:31:19,007 --> 01:31:20,843 have an answer to what really happened. 1777 01:31:22,044 --> 01:31:24,479 [Nate] I think the natural inclination 1778 01:31:24,513 --> 01:31:26,582 for all parents and all relatives 1779 01:31:26,615 --> 01:31:29,317 is they want closure. 1780 01:31:29,351 --> 01:31:31,887 It's an unknown what happened to these people. 1781 01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:35,824 And it extends far beyond just kids. 1782 01:31:37,225 --> 01:31:40,663 We're at 1600 cases, and with every month, 1783 01:31:40,696 --> 01:31:42,965 there's a new case that comes across my desk 1784 01:31:42,998 --> 01:31:45,200 that's an exact match for what we've talked about. 1785 01:31:49,805 --> 01:31:52,875 [man] There's not going to be any one particular person 1786 01:31:52,908 --> 01:31:55,644 that can shed light onto a lot of the phenomenon that's going on. 1787 01:31:55,678 --> 01:31:57,012 We're talking about a very large, 1788 01:31:57,045 --> 01:32:00,148 even a worldwide collective of information here. 1789 01:32:00,182 --> 01:32:03,351 Certainly authorities, National Park authorities, 1790 01:32:03,385 --> 01:32:05,020 law enforcement authorities... 1791 01:32:05,053 --> 01:32:08,624 They often have their fingers tapped onto 1792 01:32:08,657 --> 01:32:10,125 the knowledge that we need. 1793 01:32:10,158 --> 01:32:13,028 But whether or not we can acquire it from them is another story. 1794 01:32:13,061 --> 01:32:14,630 When you look at some of these cases, 1795 01:32:14,663 --> 01:32:15,964 you have to consider 1796 01:32:15,998 --> 01:32:19,534 possibilities with which we are really uncomfortable. 1797 01:32:19,568 --> 01:32:21,069 You know, it's a rational society. 1798 01:32:21,103 --> 01:32:24,106 We're uncomfortable thinking about what else could be out there. 1799 01:32:24,139 --> 01:32:27,209 But some of these situations are so unusual, 1800 01:32:27,242 --> 01:32:30,445 you have to think beyond the bounds of what's normal. 1801 01:32:30,478 --> 01:32:32,681 What's a normal explanation for this. 1802 01:32:34,917 --> 01:32:36,819 [wind howling] 1803 01:32:39,087 --> 01:32:41,724 [woman] I think one of the most impressive 1804 01:32:41,757 --> 01:32:44,526 was a search in South Dakota. 1805 01:32:44,559 --> 01:32:47,062 It was for a little toddler 1806 01:32:47,095 --> 01:32:48,363 that had wandered away. 1807 01:32:48,396 --> 01:32:50,999 And this was... I forget, it was January, February. 1808 01:32:51,033 --> 01:32:52,134 It was cold weather. 1809 01:32:52,167 --> 01:32:55,838 And we could not get any clues on the little toddler. 1810 01:32:55,871 --> 01:32:57,940 It had been like three days. 1811 01:32:57,973 --> 01:33:02,711 So we knew it was probably not gonna be a good result. 1812 01:33:02,745 --> 01:33:05,648 Anyway, we were... To make a log story short, 1813 01:33:05,681 --> 01:33:07,650 coming through some willows, 1814 01:33:07,683 --> 01:33:10,819 and it was all foggy, and the dogs were alerting. 1815 01:33:10,853 --> 01:33:14,389 But we could not come to any conclusion. 1816 01:33:14,422 --> 01:33:16,591 And all of a sudden, 1817 01:33:16,625 --> 01:33:19,394 my dog turned around and just let out 1818 01:33:19,427 --> 01:33:23,365 a real startled howl, you know. 1819 01:33:23,398 --> 01:33:24,767 It was scared. 1820 01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,770 And we turned around and here was this little toddler, 1821 01:33:27,803 --> 01:33:30,072 walking out of the fog, 1822 01:33:30,105 --> 01:33:34,142 with just absolutely no clothes on at all. 1823 01:33:34,176 --> 01:33:36,278 And it scared all of us. 1824 01:33:36,311 --> 01:33:38,881 I mean, the other handler and I both went "Whoa!" 1825 01:33:38,914 --> 01:33:40,615 You know, just startled us, too. 1826 01:33:40,649 --> 01:33:44,953 Just like the little thing appeared out of nowhere out of the mist. 1827 01:33:44,987 --> 01:33:48,691 We suspect because of just the way... dirty and everything, 1828 01:33:48,724 --> 01:33:52,394 that probably she had been with an animal. 1829 01:33:52,427 --> 01:33:54,797 Had curled up with a coyote, or... 1830 01:33:54,830 --> 01:33:57,032 We don't know for sure. And we'll never know. 1831 01:34:01,169 --> 01:34:02,738 The ultimate possibility 1832 01:34:02,771 --> 01:34:05,273 is the most disturbing of all. 1833 01:34:05,307 --> 01:34:08,811 That it's been here as long as humans have been here. 1834 01:34:09,845 --> 01:34:11,914 Sometimes we can see the remains 1835 01:34:11,947 --> 01:34:14,382 and sometimes we never get an answer at all. 1836 01:34:27,830 --> 01:34:29,865 He had monster trucks 1837 01:34:30,232 --> 01:34:32,134 and semis. 1838 01:34:36,104 --> 01:34:38,741 I think the boots he was wearing were like sixes, 1839 01:34:39,307 --> 01:34:40,675 or five-and-a-halves. 1840 01:34:42,344 --> 01:34:44,179 But every time he wore this, 1841 01:34:44,212 --> 01:34:46,849 he said he was super fast and he would run everywhere. 1842 01:34:48,784 --> 01:34:50,385 [DeOrr] We deserve to know what happened. 1843 01:34:50,418 --> 01:34:54,222 But that little boy at least deserves to come home or have closure. 1844 01:34:54,256 --> 01:34:56,825 I owe at least that much to my little boy, 1845 01:34:56,859 --> 01:34:59,962 is to at least give him his life back, or his closure. 1846 01:35:37,165 --> 01:35:40,102 [acoustic guitar music playing] 1847 01:35:53,816 --> 01:35:56,952 * Would you walk 1848 01:35:56,985 --> 01:36:00,789 * A thousand miles 1849 01:36:01,790 --> 01:36:05,527 * Along cliffs 1850 01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:09,297 * Cliffs made of shell 1851 01:36:10,799 --> 01:36:13,869 * Would you abandon 1852 01:36:13,902 --> 01:36:17,840 * Your father 1853 01:36:19,374 --> 01:36:25,513 * Along, along, along Along the trail * 1854 01:36:27,749 --> 01:36:30,986 * 'Cause there's a road 1855 01:36:31,019 --> 01:36:35,824 * Leads through mountains 1856 01:36:36,524 --> 01:36:39,594 * And that'll cut 1857 01:36:39,627 --> 01:36:44,132 * Cut through you home 1858 01:36:44,967 --> 01:36:48,636 * And there's a lake 1859 01:36:48,670 --> 01:36:53,175 * Carved by glaciers 1860 01:36:54,476 --> 01:37:00,082 * Moving through stone 1861 01:37:01,116 --> 01:37:04,486 * Moving through 1862 01:37:36,384 --> 01:37:39,587 * Hey, you 137451

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