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- Hello.
- Hi. I'm Louis.
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I'm Louis.
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Oh, I can't shake your hand.
[laughter]
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Louis narrates: For 25 years,
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I've been making programmes
about life
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00:00:15,137 --> 00:00:16,547
in all its strangeness...
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Stand by.
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Information to follow.
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Louis narrates: ..mystery...
- Who are you?
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00:00:24,206 --> 00:00:26,996
- I'm Louis.
- Who's Louis?
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Louis narrates: ..and angst...
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00:00:28,827 --> 00:00:30,997
You OK, Nikki?
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00:00:31,103 --> 00:00:32,413
Louis narrates:
Trying to make connections
14
00:00:32,517 --> 00:00:35,277
with people who are,
in different ways,
15
00:00:35,379 --> 00:00:36,589
on the edge.
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Not all of us
want to be like this.
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Louis narrates: Recently,
I decided to take a pause,
18
00:00:43,862 --> 00:00:45,932
and trawl through my old shows,
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00:00:46,034 --> 00:00:48,724
looking again at some stories
that stayed with me...
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00:00:48,827 --> 00:00:50,897
Yeah, this has stuff in it.
21
00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,340
Louis narrates: And to reach
out to those I'd featured...
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Woman on phone: Look at you,
Mr Beard and Moustache!
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00:00:56,344 --> 00:00:57,934
I know.
Don't I look distinguished?
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00:00:58,034 --> 00:00:59,864
Louis narrates: ..to see
how their lives have changed.
25
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You've been married six times.
26
00:01:01,448 --> 00:01:02,968
Henry VIII
was married six times,
27
00:01:03,068 --> 00:01:04,588
so it's not unprecedented.
28
00:01:04,689 --> 00:01:05,929
[laughs]
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00:01:06,034 --> 00:01:07,454
Hey. How you doing?
30
00:01:07,551 --> 00:01:09,691
- Good. How are you?
- Good.
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00:01:09,793 --> 00:01:12,003
Louis narrates: From all
the hours of programmes,
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I've teased out
a handful of themes...
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- This is gonna be the start
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00:01:16,206 --> 00:01:18,616
of the second
American Civil War!
35
00:01:18,724 --> 00:01:21,314
White revolution!
36
00:01:21,413 --> 00:01:23,593
- Why did you run?
- Because they shoot anybody,
37
00:01:23,689 --> 00:01:24,899
and they don't care who it is.
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Point blank range,
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they'll pull a gun out
and shoot you.
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Louis narrates: ..all of which,
in different ways,
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00:01:29,620 --> 00:01:32,310
go to the heart
of what it means to be human.
42
00:01:32,413 --> 00:01:34,283
[man yells in rage]
- You OK?
43
00:01:34,379 --> 00:01:35,899
It seems like every day,
44
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I get delivered
from something else
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that I didn't even know I had.
46
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Louis narrates:
..trying to figure out
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00:01:41,413 --> 00:01:42,863
what I've learned about life,
48
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and about myself.
49
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What connection is there
between a birth mum and a child?
50
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[sobbing]
51
00:01:50,724 --> 00:01:53,034
You don't feel loved by Rob?
52
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- No, not particularly.
53
00:01:55,137 --> 00:01:56,967
I feel like I'm a burden.
54
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It's wakey-wakey time.
55
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- No.
56
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No, pants first, remember?
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Pants first.
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Louis narrates: In a way,
I see family
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as the deepest of all subjects.
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The most intimate stories,
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because you see people at home,
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in settings
that are as revealing
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as you could imagine.
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00:02:36,758 --> 00:02:37,688
Over the years,
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00:02:37,793 --> 00:02:39,863
family was obviously
always in the background
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00:02:39,965 --> 00:02:42,585
to all the stories I did
in some way...
67
00:02:42,689 --> 00:02:47,619
..but it didn't become
the foreground until 2006...
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00:02:47,724 --> 00:02:51,214
..when I did the first story
I ever did on a family.
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00:02:51,310 --> 00:02:54,210
I mean, a family
of a very strange sort,
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a family of religious zealots,
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00:02:56,758 --> 00:02:59,098
extremists if you like,
in Kansas.
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00:03:00,482 --> 00:03:02,342
That's quite nice.
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It says, "Rules that
you should obey,
74
00:03:04,448 --> 00:03:07,548
"from Noah Phelps-Roper
to Louis."
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Noah, who would have been
probably seven...
76
00:03:11,551 --> 00:03:13,831
..six, seven years old,
77
00:03:13,931 --> 00:03:17,241
from the Phelps family,
Westboro Baptist church -
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he made me this little booklet
on how to conduct my life.
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"Obey, obey, don't kill people.
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"Don't marry two people.
81
00:03:27,068 --> 00:03:29,308
"Don't go to a fag church.
82
00:03:29,413 --> 00:03:32,313
"Don't join the army
or you will die."
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I had known about
the Westboro Baptist Church
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00:03:37,827 --> 00:03:40,277
going back years.
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It was founded by a man
called Pastor Fred Phelps.
86
00:03:43,275 --> 00:03:44,855
They were famous
for their pickets
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where they would wave
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very offensive
homophobic placards.
89
00:03:49,241 --> 00:03:51,901
And then, they began picketing
the funerals of soldiers
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killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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[bell tolls, protesters sing]
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And the idea was that
the soldiers' deaths
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were punishment
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00:03:59,172 --> 00:04:02,522
for America's tolerance
of homosexuality.
95
00:04:02,620 --> 00:04:04,070
And so, based on that,
96
00:04:04,172 --> 00:04:06,692
we thought,
"Maybe there's a story here."
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- ♪ I'm ashamed
to be an American ♪
98
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♪ Where the fags
can freely roam ♪
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♪ They spread their filth
around this land ♪
100
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♪ Every pervert calls it home
101
00:04:18,137 --> 00:04:25,137
♪ God hates the USA.
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[doorbell rings]
103
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- Hi.
- Hi, there.
104
00:04:30,793 --> 00:04:31,833
- You must be Shirley.
- Yes.
105
00:04:31,931 --> 00:04:32,831
- I'm Louis.
- Hi, Louis.
106
00:04:32,931 --> 00:04:34,101
How do you do?
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So, these are your signs.
108
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You've got
"God hates fags" here.
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00:04:40,413 --> 00:04:41,833
- Uh-huh, and God hates you.
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Just don't think of fags
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00:04:43,413 --> 00:04:46,143
as just those guys who are
taking it up the tail pipe.
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Think of it as people
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who are involved
in some perverted sex act,
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and I am talking about
anything other than
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one man, one woman
in their marriage bed.
116
00:04:58,068 --> 00:04:59,208
- Hi, guys.
- Hi.
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00:04:59,310 --> 00:05:00,340
- Hey.
- Hi.
118
00:05:00,448 --> 00:05:01,718
- This is Gabriel.
119
00:05:01,827 --> 00:05:03,097
- How do you do?
120
00:05:03,896 --> 00:05:04,826
Go put your stuff away.
121
00:05:04,931 --> 00:05:06,481
- And Grace. This is Grace.
- How do you do?
122
00:05:06,586 --> 00:05:07,476
- Hi.
- Come on, guys.
123
00:05:07,586 --> 00:05:08,856
Let's get out of here,
let's bail.
124
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This is our corner.
125
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Come on, little boys.
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Zack, you hop in
in case he wants you to stay.
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00:05:16,586 --> 00:05:17,926
- So, um...
- Zack, call me.
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00:05:18,034 --> 00:05:19,624
..I'm gonna keep a little bit
of a distance because I'm not
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00:05:19,724 --> 00:05:20,934
- part of the picket.
- That's OK.
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00:05:21,034 --> 00:05:23,414
Louis: There were about
70 members in the church,
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almost all from one family.
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And they believed
that by going on pickets
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and hurling abuse,
134
00:05:29,862 --> 00:05:33,032
they thought that was the most
Christian thing they could do.
135
00:05:34,241 --> 00:05:38,661
Women: America is doomed!
136
00:05:38,758 --> 00:05:40,588
- This is shameful.
137
00:05:40,689 --> 00:05:43,029
Right down shameful.
138
00:05:43,137 --> 00:05:45,687
You got little kids like this...
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00:05:45,793 --> 00:05:50,073
- You obviously raised your brat
for the devil,
140
00:05:50,172 --> 00:05:52,902
your big bratness-brat
for the devil.
141
00:05:54,172 --> 00:05:55,552
- What was he talking about?
- He's talking about,
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00:05:55,655 --> 00:05:57,785
[mockingly] "I don't agree
with fags
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00:05:57,896 --> 00:05:59,716
"but, you know, que sera sera."
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00:05:59,827 --> 00:06:01,997
- Fuck you!
- You think you can fix this?
145
00:06:02,103 --> 00:06:04,663
With that? You think
you're gonna change God?
146
00:06:04,758 --> 00:06:07,788
You know why you're there,
you fucking bitch?
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00:06:07,896 --> 00:06:10,616
Because you are
a rebellious brat,
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00:06:10,724 --> 00:06:12,664
that's why!
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00:06:17,137 --> 00:06:19,307
Louis: I began spending time
with this family,
150
00:06:19,413 --> 00:06:22,413
trying to understand it.
151
00:06:22,517 --> 00:06:23,927
You know, they would
go to normal schools
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00:06:24,034 --> 00:06:25,214
and go to normal jobs,
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00:06:25,310 --> 00:06:27,970
but they weren't allowed
to fraternise or socialise.
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They weren't allowed to mix.
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00:06:30,137 --> 00:06:33,617
They couldn't go on dates,
have coffees un-chaperoned,
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and realistically,
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they knew that
there was a high likelihood
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00:06:37,379 --> 00:06:39,209
they'd never be married,
never have kids,
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00:06:39,310 --> 00:06:41,070
and I was curious about that.
160
00:06:42,517 --> 00:06:43,587
- Hi.
- How are you doing?
161
00:06:43,689 --> 00:06:45,069
- Good.
- Can we come in?
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00:06:45,172 --> 00:06:46,412
Uh-huh.
163
00:06:46,517 --> 00:06:49,477
It's not sinful
to get married, is it?
164
00:06:49,586 --> 00:06:52,406
And if you wanted to do that,
then how do you do that?
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00:06:52,517 --> 00:06:53,407
Well, first of all,
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00:06:53,517 --> 00:06:54,967
I don't think that's
ever gonna happen.
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00:06:55,068 --> 00:06:56,618
- Why wouldn't that happen?
- Are you kidding me?
168
00:06:56,724 --> 00:06:58,454
Are you kidding me?
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00:06:58,551 --> 00:07:01,521
Because I'm Jael Phelps
and I serve God, that's why.
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00:07:02,551 --> 00:07:03,831
That's why.
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00:07:03,931 --> 00:07:05,791
And I'm not gonna seek after it.
172
00:07:06,896 --> 00:07:08,096
I'm not gonna dwell on it.
173
00:07:09,551 --> 00:07:12,481
It's not my interest,
it's not my focus.
174
00:07:13,586 --> 00:07:15,446
I'm a dumb young girl,
175
00:07:15,551 --> 00:07:17,831
but I am not that dumb and goofy
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to go... [scoffs] It's so silly.
177
00:07:20,689 --> 00:07:21,859
I'm not gonna talk...
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00:07:21,965 --> 00:07:24,965
I don't want to talk about it
anymore, OK?
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00:07:25,793 --> 00:07:27,863
So, I don't wanna go there.
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00:07:30,689 --> 00:07:34,309
Louis: As with any kind
of ultra controlled sect...
181
00:07:34,413 --> 00:07:36,763
..you know, I was curious
about the mechanisms of control,
182
00:07:36,862 --> 00:07:39,212
and also the mechanisms
of self control,
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00:07:39,310 --> 00:07:44,140
and the way in which
the indoctrination took place...
184
00:07:44,241 --> 00:07:47,141
..how it was passed down
to the younger generation.
185
00:07:49,517 --> 00:07:51,167
How old are you, Shirley?
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00:07:51,275 --> 00:07:52,685
- Seven.
- Seven.
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00:07:52,793 --> 00:07:54,623
Do you know what the sign means?
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00:07:55,586 --> 00:07:57,066
No.
189
00:07:57,172 --> 00:07:58,102
- No?
190
00:07:58,206 --> 00:08:01,376
Maybe she's just out here
making up numbers, you know,
191
00:08:01,482 --> 00:08:03,102
because
she doesn't really get it.
192
00:08:03,206 --> 00:08:05,306
Noah, do you know
what fag troops are?
193
00:08:06,241 --> 00:08:08,381
- Yeah.
- What?
194
00:08:08,482 --> 00:08:11,522
It's this nation of these fags.
195
00:08:11,620 --> 00:08:13,620
It's a nation of fags,
196
00:08:13,724 --> 00:08:16,244
that's what fag troops means.
197
00:08:16,344 --> 00:08:17,794
- It is a nation of fags,
that's right.
198
00:08:17,896 --> 00:08:19,376
Wait, wait, wait.
You're not gonna let him
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00:08:19,482 --> 00:08:21,242
- get away with that, are you?
- Oh! It's fag soldiers!
200
00:08:21,344 --> 00:08:23,104
- No, I'm not gonna...
- Fag soldiers!
201
00:08:23,206 --> 00:08:24,516
- OK, fag soldiers.
202
00:08:24,620 --> 00:08:27,830
I am sort of glad that they
don't understand it better.
203
00:08:27,931 --> 00:08:28,971
- Well, you understand...
204
00:08:29,068 --> 00:08:32,758
Noah, do you know what else
you could be besides a fag
205
00:08:32,862 --> 00:08:36,032
to be in trouble with God
and be included in that sign?
206
00:08:37,586 --> 00:08:38,616
Erm...
207
00:08:39,758 --> 00:08:41,758
Umm, soldiers and...
208
00:08:41,862 --> 00:08:42,932
- But what are you?
209
00:08:43,034 --> 00:08:45,864
If you're not a practising fag,
what are you?
210
00:08:45,965 --> 00:08:48,235
What if you support fags,
what does that make you?
211
00:08:49,275 --> 00:08:51,025
- You're a dyke.
- [laughs]
212
00:08:52,034 --> 00:08:53,344
You could say you're...
213
00:08:53,448 --> 00:08:55,168
what you're really doing
is grooming him
214
00:08:55,275 --> 00:08:56,685
into the weird behaviour
215
00:08:56,793 --> 00:08:58,313
that is a characteristic
of your group.
216
00:08:58,413 --> 00:09:00,243
I mean, if you want to explain
your moral outlook to him,
217
00:09:00,344 --> 00:09:01,624
you could do that
in a classroom.
218
00:09:01,724 --> 00:09:05,794
- Are you calling our service
to our God 'weird behaviour'?
219
00:09:05,896 --> 00:09:07,686
- Is that what you just did?
- Yes.
220
00:09:07,793 --> 00:09:10,483
You don't get to call
our service to God weird,
221
00:09:10,586 --> 00:09:12,826
and thereby make it so.
222
00:09:14,137 --> 00:09:15,997
Your statement
doesn't make it right,
223
00:09:16,103 --> 00:09:17,973
doesn't make it a fact.
224
00:09:18,068 --> 00:09:19,548
- The world calls it weird.
225
00:09:19,655 --> 00:09:20,785
- I don't care what the...
226
00:09:20,896 --> 00:09:22,446
Well, yes,
and the world hates us.
227
00:09:22,551 --> 00:09:23,591
Hello?
228
00:09:26,310 --> 00:09:28,550
Louis narrates: What struck me
was that these were people
229
00:09:28,655 --> 00:09:32,135
who, if raised
in other situations elsewhere,
230
00:09:32,241 --> 00:09:35,411
would have been normal,
productive people,
231
00:09:35,517 --> 00:09:36,857
nice people,
232
00:09:36,965 --> 00:09:40,895
but they were carrying on
this process of indoctrination
233
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,970
based on the distorted vision
of this angry old man,
234
00:09:45,068 --> 00:09:46,658
Pastor Fred Phelps.
235
00:09:48,206 --> 00:09:49,306
- America's doomed.
236
00:09:50,551 --> 00:09:52,521
It's almost 18 months now
237
00:09:52,620 --> 00:09:54,720
and the siege has got
people eating their babies...
238
00:09:57,344 --> 00:09:59,764
..and their small children,
and each other!
239
00:09:59,862 --> 00:10:02,342
You're gonna eat your babies!
240
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,970
And any preacher
preaching it any other way
241
00:10:06,068 --> 00:10:08,928
is a lying, hell-bound
false prophet.
242
00:10:12,517 --> 00:10:14,447
Louis Theroux,
a demon-possessed...
243
00:10:15,482 --> 00:10:17,862
..BBC documentary maker.
244
00:10:18,827 --> 00:10:21,687
Woe unto Louis Theroux.
245
00:10:21,793 --> 00:10:24,283
God's woe
means he's going to hell.
246
00:10:25,586 --> 00:10:27,686
Louis: Gramps,
the old patriarch,
247
00:10:27,793 --> 00:10:31,103
gave a sermon, which he released
also as a press release.
248
00:10:31,206 --> 00:10:32,716
"Louis Theroux thinks
249
00:10:32,827 --> 00:10:35,337
"he has cutesy little
endearing qualities
250
00:10:35,448 --> 00:10:37,338
"that will make him rich -
251
00:10:37,448 --> 00:10:42,448
"feigned humility,
self effacing naiveté on camera,
252
00:10:42,551 --> 00:10:44,521
"innocent-sounding questions,
253
00:10:44,620 --> 00:10:50,240
"wide-eyed enthusiasm
and pretended befuddlement.
254
00:10:50,344 --> 00:10:52,004
"All gimmickry.
255
00:10:52,103 --> 00:10:56,623
"A shrewd, satanic manipulator
for sin."
256
00:10:57,620 --> 00:10:58,830
That's good stuff.
257
00:10:58,931 --> 00:11:01,241
I mean, he kind of nails it.
258
00:11:01,344 --> 00:11:02,244
[chuckles]
259
00:11:02,344 --> 00:11:04,594
I didn't think he was paying
that much attention to me.
260
00:11:08,034 --> 00:11:10,414
I think what you see
in the Westboro story
261
00:11:10,517 --> 00:11:14,717
is the extremes
of what a family does to itself.
262
00:11:14,827 --> 00:11:17,207
Pastor: ..England and America,
the rest of this evil world...
263
00:11:17,310 --> 00:11:21,030
Louis: The extraordinary pain
that it inflicts on its members,
264
00:11:21,137 --> 00:11:22,687
but which the members
put up with
265
00:11:22,793 --> 00:11:24,793
because of the love
that they experience.
266
00:11:24,896 --> 00:11:26,136
Pastor: ..no longer
keeps America safe...
267
00:11:26,241 --> 00:11:27,451
- In the case of Westboro,
268
00:11:27,551 --> 00:11:30,381
the family is more or less
torturing itself...
269
00:11:31,620 --> 00:11:33,930
..and then,
there comes a breaking point.
270
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,240
Even when I was there,
271
00:11:37,344 --> 00:11:39,174
people talked about
people who'd left,
272
00:11:39,275 --> 00:11:41,305
family members
who had gone their own way.
273
00:11:43,068 --> 00:11:44,068
And then, after I left,
274
00:11:44,172 --> 00:11:45,592
Megan Phelps-Roper,
275
00:11:45,689 --> 00:11:48,859
Shirley's daughter
and right-hand person, left.
276
00:11:48,965 --> 00:11:50,655
99.9% of Americans...
277
00:11:50,758 --> 00:11:54,898
- She also made it her mission
to speak out...
278
00:11:55,896 --> 00:11:57,276
..from a loving place
279
00:11:57,379 --> 00:11:59,409
about what happens
inside the church,
280
00:11:59,517 --> 00:12:00,967
in the hope of actually
281
00:12:01,068 --> 00:12:03,828
getting more people to leave.
282
00:12:03,931 --> 00:12:06,831
- The end of this spiral
of rage and blame,
283
00:12:06,931 --> 00:12:08,451
begins with one person
284
00:12:08,551 --> 00:12:13,381
who refuses to indulge these
destructive, seductive impulses.
285
00:12:13,482 --> 00:12:16,382
We just have to decide that
it's going to start with us.
286
00:12:18,586 --> 00:12:19,616
Louis narrates: When she left,
287
00:12:19,724 --> 00:12:21,554
Megan got in touch with me.
288
00:12:22,379 --> 00:12:23,659
Hello.
289
00:12:23,758 --> 00:12:25,068
Louis narrates:
We stayed in touch...
290
00:12:25,172 --> 00:12:26,242
- Hey.
Louis narrates: ..emailing
291
00:12:26,344 --> 00:12:29,384
back and forth intermittently
and we became friends.
292
00:12:29,482 --> 00:12:32,072
How are you doing, anyway?
293
00:12:32,172 --> 00:12:34,072
- I'm good.
I'm finding the bright side,
294
00:12:34,172 --> 00:12:36,102
- and it's nice.
- That's great.
295
00:12:36,206 --> 00:12:37,546
Louis narrates: She's been
completely cut off
296
00:12:37,655 --> 00:12:39,855
from her family for years now,
297
00:12:39,965 --> 00:12:42,585
and is not allowed
under any circumstances
298
00:12:42,689 --> 00:12:44,209
to visit her Mum.
299
00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:47,210
It changes over time,
you know,
300
00:12:47,310 --> 00:12:50,660
the way that the pain feels.
301
00:12:51,344 --> 00:12:52,834
But it doesn't...
302
00:12:52,931 --> 00:12:55,451
It changes
because I'm changing, you know,
303
00:12:55,551 --> 00:12:56,971
I'm getting older.
304
00:12:57,068 --> 00:12:58,238
I now am a mom,
305
00:12:58,344 --> 00:13:01,594
and so I have these memories
of my mom
306
00:13:01,689 --> 00:13:03,379
coming up all the time now,
307
00:13:03,482 --> 00:13:05,592
and sometimes
it'll make me happy,
308
00:13:05,689 --> 00:13:07,279
and sometimes
it'll make me cry,
309
00:13:07,379 --> 00:13:09,969
but, like, it's...it's...
310
00:13:10,068 --> 00:13:12,308
She's my mom.
It never goes away.
311
00:13:12,413 --> 00:13:14,453
It's not the past.
312
00:13:14,551 --> 00:13:17,551
It's now,
and that's incredibly painful,
313
00:13:17,655 --> 00:13:19,135
no matter how long it's been.
314
00:13:25,758 --> 00:13:28,068
Louis: Families come
under pressure.
315
00:13:28,172 --> 00:13:30,482
It's often to do with
the intolerable demands
316
00:13:30,586 --> 00:13:32,656
made by family members.
317
00:13:32,758 --> 00:13:37,448
Sometimes, as with Westboro,
due to indoctrination...
318
00:13:37,551 --> 00:13:39,861
..but also, in fact, more often,
319
00:13:39,965 --> 00:13:43,095
because of illness,
because of disease,
320
00:13:43,206 --> 00:13:45,066
because of mental decline.
321
00:13:48,827 --> 00:13:53,927
Around 2011, I went through
a kind of crisis.
322
00:13:54,034 --> 00:13:56,864
I felt like I'd run out
of stories I was interested in.
323
00:13:56,965 --> 00:13:58,995
I don't know, I just felt
I was in danger
324
00:13:59,103 --> 00:14:02,073
of repeating myself,
of doing re-treads,
325
00:14:02,172 --> 00:14:06,142
And the only story
that we had...on the slate,
326
00:14:06,241 --> 00:14:07,591
that I was excited about,
327
00:14:07,689 --> 00:14:10,619
that felt new and different
and interesting to me...
328
00:14:10,724 --> 00:14:14,074
..was about people
with dementia.
329
00:14:20,517 --> 00:14:21,787
Phoenix, Arizona,
330
00:14:21,896 --> 00:14:24,476
is a population centre
of the elderly
331
00:14:24,586 --> 00:14:27,066
and, therefore, of dementia.
332
00:14:27,172 --> 00:14:29,382
And also a centre
for pioneering techniques
333
00:14:29,482 --> 00:14:32,722
in coping with dementia
and its symptoms...
334
00:14:32,827 --> 00:14:34,787
..so we decided
to base ourselves there,
335
00:14:34,896 --> 00:14:37,516
at a residential home
called Beatitudes.
336
00:14:41,034 --> 00:14:43,524
One of the men there
was called Gary Gilliam.
337
00:14:43,620 --> 00:14:46,660
He had vascular dementia
brought on by a heart attack.
338
00:14:46,758 --> 00:14:48,338
This is a hard place to get out.
339
00:14:48,448 --> 00:14:50,968
Louis narrates: Big personality,
very humorous,
340
00:14:51,068 --> 00:14:53,618
beloved
by all the other residents.
341
00:14:53,724 --> 00:14:56,214
- I'd like to know
where the in hell...?
342
00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:59,240
- Hmm.
- You OK?
343
00:15:00,034 --> 00:15:01,174
Well, I'm worried.
344
00:15:01,275 --> 00:15:03,785
I'm just gonna walk up here
and see if I can't...
345
00:15:04,758 --> 00:15:06,448
What are you worried about?
346
00:15:06,551 --> 00:15:07,481
What am I worried about?
347
00:15:07,586 --> 00:15:08,896
There's nothing to worry about.
348
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,140
Well, guys get out and get lost.
349
00:15:14,137 --> 00:15:16,477
Louis: What sort of things
do you enjoy doing here?
350
00:15:16,586 --> 00:15:17,926
How do you keep busy?
351
00:15:18,034 --> 00:15:20,834
- This is my workplace.
- Doing?
352
00:15:20,931 --> 00:15:23,591
Dentistry,
or working on something dental,
353
00:15:23,689 --> 00:15:25,619
or doing, you know, whatever.
354
00:15:25,724 --> 00:15:28,144
Whatever they want to put me to,
I don't care.
355
00:15:28,241 --> 00:15:30,451
It's not really
a medical building
356
00:15:30,551 --> 00:15:31,521
or something like that,
357
00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:33,450
but here we are.
358
00:15:33,551 --> 00:15:34,621
I ain't never leaving.
359
00:15:34,724 --> 00:15:36,724
it's kind of strange that way.
360
00:15:38,758 --> 00:15:41,068
Does he know where he is?
361
00:15:41,172 --> 00:15:42,762
- He does know. He's, um...
362
00:15:42,862 --> 00:15:44,002
- He seems to think
he's involved
363
00:15:44,103 --> 00:15:45,623
in a dental practice here.
364
00:15:45,724 --> 00:15:47,934
I know, yeah, and one of
the ways we redirect him
365
00:15:48,034 --> 00:15:50,554
is to have him
examine our teeth.
366
00:15:50,655 --> 00:15:53,685
- When you say...
redirect means what?
367
00:15:53,793 --> 00:15:56,003
- If he's on a mission
to go outside,
368
00:15:56,103 --> 00:15:58,793
or if he's just having
one of those moments,
369
00:15:58,896 --> 00:16:01,586
that he's irritable, you can
easily redirect him by saying,
370
00:16:01,689 --> 00:16:04,069
"Hey, Dr Gary,
I have a problem with my tooth.
371
00:16:04,172 --> 00:16:06,762
"Can you look inside my mouth?"
And he will.
372
00:16:06,862 --> 00:16:08,482
- You want to take a walk
with me?
373
00:16:08,586 --> 00:16:10,096
- Sure, I'll walk with you.
374
00:16:10,206 --> 00:16:13,276
See, now,
they change these things around
375
00:16:13,379 --> 00:16:14,969
every other week.
376
00:16:15,068 --> 00:16:16,658
"Push until alarm sounds.
377
00:16:16,758 --> 00:16:18,928
"Door can be opened
in 15 seconds."
378
00:16:19,034 --> 00:16:21,174
That's a siren going off
for 15 seconds
379
00:16:21,275 --> 00:16:23,335
through this building.
You can't use that.
380
00:16:23,448 --> 00:16:25,308
- No.
- That's ridiculous.
381
00:16:25,413 --> 00:16:26,623
No.
382
00:16:26,724 --> 00:16:29,664
So, you know, what can I do?
I'm screwed.
383
00:16:29,758 --> 00:16:31,658
Someone told me
you used to be a dentist?
384
00:16:31,758 --> 00:16:33,168
- I am a dentist.
- Is that true?
385
00:16:33,275 --> 00:16:35,405
I guess once a dentist,
always a dentist, you know?
386
00:16:35,517 --> 00:16:36,787
It's like being born...
387
00:16:38,517 --> 00:16:39,827
..an Indian or something,
you know,
388
00:16:39,931 --> 00:16:41,241
you're always
gonna be an Indian.
389
00:16:41,344 --> 00:16:43,664
Would you take
a quick look at my teeth?
390
00:16:43,758 --> 00:16:44,788
- Yes, sir. I would.
391
00:16:44,896 --> 00:16:46,276
- They're not very clean,
though.
392
00:16:46,379 --> 00:16:47,689
Oh, I know.
393
00:16:47,793 --> 00:16:49,483
- You're a Brit, aren't you?
- Yeah.
394
00:16:49,586 --> 00:16:51,376
Well, you guys don't
clean your teeth like we do.
395
00:16:51,482 --> 00:16:52,522
I know.
396
00:16:54,172 --> 00:16:55,172
Bite down, please.
397
00:16:56,172 --> 00:16:57,792
You got good occlusion.
398
00:16:59,275 --> 00:17:01,405
You know,
you're in cross bite back there.
399
00:17:01,517 --> 00:17:02,757
- Uh-oh.
- Yeah.
400
00:17:02,862 --> 00:17:04,282
I wouldn't do anything about it
401
00:17:04,379 --> 00:17:06,099
'cause it's not
gonna hurt you now.
402
00:17:15,241 --> 00:17:17,451
- How well do you feel
you know Dawn?
403
00:17:17,551 --> 00:17:19,101
- Know who?
- Dawn.
404
00:17:19,206 --> 00:17:22,066
Oh, do I know you?
405
00:17:22,172 --> 00:17:23,862
Well, I haven't known you
very much,
406
00:17:23,965 --> 00:17:26,275
because if I would,
I'd remember you forever.
407
00:17:26,379 --> 00:17:28,859
- Aww.
- 'Cause you're a pretty lady.
408
00:17:28,965 --> 00:17:30,655
You remember the pretty ladies,
huh?
409
00:17:30,758 --> 00:17:32,138
- I try to.
- Right.
410
00:17:32,241 --> 00:17:33,901
I think I'm losing my grasp.
411
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,790
He tells me that every day.
It's good for my ego.
412
00:17:36,896 --> 00:17:38,446
[chuckles]
413
00:17:39,482 --> 00:17:40,592
And are you married?
414
00:17:40,689 --> 00:17:42,209
- No, sir.
- No.
415
00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:45,240
Nobody would have me.
I had a...you know...
416
00:17:45,344 --> 00:17:47,144
I had a sign out in the yard
for a long time.
417
00:17:47,241 --> 00:17:48,451
It got to be embarrassing.
418
00:17:48,551 --> 00:17:50,381
- What about Carla?
- Carla?
419
00:17:50,482 --> 00:17:52,172
That's the meanest little booger
in the world
420
00:17:52,275 --> 00:17:54,065
- but I just love her.
- Who's Carla?
421
00:17:54,172 --> 00:17:56,412
She's a little gal
about this tall, isn't she?
422
00:17:56,517 --> 00:17:59,827
- And she came to work for me.
- Right, exactly.
423
00:17:59,931 --> 00:18:01,831
And then she ended up
running my office.
424
00:18:01,931 --> 00:18:03,721
- Mm-hm.
- Did an excellent job of it.
425
00:18:03,827 --> 00:18:05,237
- She did.
- She's really a nice person.
426
00:18:05,344 --> 00:18:06,414
- She is.
- I think a lot of her.
427
00:18:06,517 --> 00:18:07,717
- Yes.
428
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,070
Louis narrates: Carla
was still married to him,
429
00:18:16,172 --> 00:18:19,342
but he no longer recognised her
as his wife.
430
00:18:23,586 --> 00:18:27,206
- There's Gary with his dogs.
He just loves his dogs.
431
00:18:27,310 --> 00:18:29,380
- What was the Gary of old like?
432
00:18:29,482 --> 00:18:31,792
- Definitely an outdoorsman.
433
00:18:31,896 --> 00:18:35,616
Highly intelligent,
very interested in everything.
434
00:18:35,724 --> 00:18:37,724
And remembered things verbatim.
435
00:18:37,827 --> 00:18:39,687
- Did he? Good memory.
436
00:18:39,793 --> 00:18:42,903
Has he gone back
to a particular point in time?
437
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,030
- I think he's more in his 20s,
early 30s.
438
00:18:46,137 --> 00:18:47,547
I'm not even his spouse,
439
00:18:47,655 --> 00:18:48,685
because in his mind,
440
00:18:48,793 --> 00:18:50,453
he would
have never gotten married.
441
00:18:50,551 --> 00:18:53,031
In terms of your relationship
with Gary now,
442
00:18:53,137 --> 00:18:54,997
how fulfilling is that for you?
443
00:18:55,103 --> 00:18:58,523
When he's really sweet
and just kind of caring,
444
00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:01,030
then, oh, yeah, I savour that,
445
00:19:01,137 --> 00:19:03,687
but it's very little, yeah.
446
00:19:08,827 --> 00:19:10,717
Hey, Gary.
447
00:19:10,827 --> 00:19:12,377
- I see
you're getting photographed.
448
00:19:12,482 --> 00:19:14,032
- Yes.
449
00:19:14,137 --> 00:19:16,277
That means
you'll be in jail in a month.
450
00:19:16,379 --> 00:19:17,659
- Yes.
- OK.
451
00:19:17,758 --> 00:19:19,378
Yes, so...
452
00:19:19,482 --> 00:19:20,722
- Hi, Gary.
- Hello.
453
00:19:20,827 --> 00:19:22,377
- You remember me?
- Yes, I do.
454
00:19:22,482 --> 00:19:25,412
Louis narrates: Carla
used to take Gary out for lunch,
455
00:19:25,517 --> 00:19:29,067
but it was more complicated
than you might think.
456
00:19:29,172 --> 00:19:30,762
- Here are his two ladies,
right there.
457
00:19:30,862 --> 00:19:33,932
Hi, Pat. Hi, Betty.
How are you doing?
458
00:19:34,034 --> 00:19:36,344
- Oh, I'm doing just fine.
459
00:19:36,448 --> 00:19:37,898
- Good.
460
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,450
- I just need to ask you
something quickly, Carla.
461
00:19:41,551 --> 00:19:46,341
You said these are
two special friends of Gary's.
462
00:19:46,448 --> 00:19:49,478
Yes. Betty is very possessive,
463
00:19:49,586 --> 00:19:52,136
but Pat is more normal.
464
00:19:52,241 --> 00:19:53,451
Then don't bring them both.
465
00:19:53,551 --> 00:19:57,281
No, absolutely not.
No, we're going with Pat.
466
00:19:57,379 --> 00:19:59,209
I don't understand why he's...
467
00:19:59,310 --> 00:20:01,030
You know,
would it not be more normal
468
00:20:01,137 --> 00:20:02,787
for him to put his arm
around you?
469
00:20:03,862 --> 00:20:06,282
Err, no, he's never been...
470
00:20:06,379 --> 00:20:08,789
physically very...
I'm just his buddy.
471
00:20:11,206 --> 00:20:13,716
There's another lady
called Betty.
472
00:20:14,965 --> 00:20:16,685
And did you say
that there's more intimacy
473
00:20:16,793 --> 00:20:17,693
in that relationship?
474
00:20:17,793 --> 00:20:19,663
Well, she, I guess,
475
00:20:19,758 --> 00:20:21,308
has always taken
her clothes off,
476
00:20:21,413 --> 00:20:22,933
and I've seen her
a couple times,
477
00:20:23,034 --> 00:20:24,724
um and, um...
478
00:20:24,827 --> 00:20:26,897
I don't know what happens
after that.
479
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,070
- Taking her clothes off?
480
00:20:28,172 --> 00:20:29,592
In his room, yeah.
481
00:20:29,689 --> 00:20:32,309
- And getting into bed with him?
- My guess is yeah.
482
00:20:32,413 --> 00:20:34,763
The idea of Gary
with another woman,
483
00:20:34,862 --> 00:20:37,692
performing sexually,
wouldn't trouble you the least?
484
00:20:37,793 --> 00:20:40,483
No, I just realise
it's the disease,
485
00:20:40,586 --> 00:20:41,826
and it's the way it is,
486
00:20:41,931 --> 00:20:43,791
and it's unconditional love.
487
00:20:43,896 --> 00:20:47,236
It's nothing to be bad for me,
488
00:20:47,344 --> 00:20:50,524
you know, it's not... Um, no.
489
00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:54,310
- Carla and Gary
are in a relationship
490
00:20:54,413 --> 00:20:58,033
in which he's seeing other women
at the care home...
491
00:20:59,241 --> 00:21:00,481
..'cause he doesn't think
he's married,
492
00:21:00,586 --> 00:21:03,276
he thinks he's a bachelor.
493
00:21:03,379 --> 00:21:06,279
And, you know, with Carla,
she doesn't stop loving Gary.
494
00:21:09,275 --> 00:21:11,165
She just has to deal
with this new Gary.
495
00:21:12,448 --> 00:21:13,408
- Bye, Gary.
496
00:21:13,517 --> 00:21:15,897
- See you, kid.
- OK, love you.
497
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,480
- Nice doing business with you.
- Ditto.
498
00:21:18,586 --> 00:21:20,136
- It's business?
499
00:21:20,241 --> 00:21:22,721
When she comes into town.
500
00:21:22,827 --> 00:21:27,447
So it's a depiction of love,
but love under extreme stress.
501
00:21:27,551 --> 00:21:29,341
Are you gonna take me with you?
502
00:21:29,448 --> 00:21:31,068
- No.
- Where you going?
503
00:21:31,172 --> 00:21:33,002
- You're still here, remember?
You got a year's lease.
504
00:21:33,103 --> 00:21:34,723
So I have to stay here?
505
00:21:34,827 --> 00:21:35,897
- This is where you live,
506
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,070
and I live in South Chandler...
507
00:21:39,034 --> 00:21:40,694
..in my own house.
508
00:21:42,758 --> 00:21:43,998
Jesus.
509
00:21:46,034 --> 00:21:47,664
- So, where are we going?
- Me and you...
510
00:21:47,758 --> 00:21:48,858
- You're staying with April.
511
00:21:48,965 --> 00:21:50,065
- You're staying with me.
512
00:21:50,172 --> 00:21:51,282
We have the pleasure of that.
513
00:21:51,379 --> 00:21:53,029
- Let's go.
- Really?
514
00:21:53,137 --> 00:21:56,307
Yeah, come on, you got
the pleasure of being with me.
515
00:21:56,413 --> 00:21:57,313
What are you?
516
00:21:57,413 --> 00:21:59,003
- What do I call you?
- Huh?
517
00:22:02,413 --> 00:22:03,593
Louis narrates: Afterwards,
I heard
518
00:22:03,689 --> 00:22:06,409
that Gary moved
to a different facility.
519
00:22:06,517 --> 00:22:08,237
He declined further.
520
00:22:10,586 --> 00:22:12,586
This is February 2016.
521
00:22:12,689 --> 00:22:16,619
It's a rather touching portrait
of Gary and Carla,
522
00:22:16,724 --> 00:22:20,624
close to the end,
done by a Phoenix radio station.
523
00:22:20,724 --> 00:22:22,214
Carla [on recording]:
I am Carla,
524
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:25,550
and I am married
to Dr Gary Gilliam.
525
00:22:25,655 --> 00:22:27,335
I knew Hospice of the Valley
526
00:22:27,448 --> 00:22:30,718
was gonna be part of
the end of our journey...
527
00:22:30,827 --> 00:22:32,967
..and the day
that I get the phone call
528
00:22:33,068 --> 00:22:35,518
that he has gone somewhere
else...
529
00:22:35,620 --> 00:22:38,310
- [Gary mutters indistinctly]
- [Carla chuckles]
530
00:22:38,413 --> 00:22:40,383
Carla: I have no regrets.
531
00:22:42,655 --> 00:22:43,825
Louis: Gary died...
532
00:22:45,689 --> 00:22:48,659
..not long after this, in 2016.
533
00:22:49,862 --> 00:22:51,662
Carla: I love you.
534
00:22:55,620 --> 00:22:58,690
- Making the dementia film
was huge for me,
535
00:22:58,793 --> 00:23:02,003
because it gave me
the confidence
536
00:23:02,103 --> 00:23:03,863
to tell other stories
537
00:23:03,965 --> 00:23:05,895
in a similar vein,
538
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,520
so in the years afterwards,
539
00:23:07,620 --> 00:23:10,970
I took on documentaries
about families
540
00:23:11,068 --> 00:23:14,028
enduring
extraordinarily stressful
541
00:23:14,137 --> 00:23:15,657
and emotional events...
542
00:23:15,758 --> 00:23:17,968
- Langston.
- It's your grandmother.
543
00:23:18,068 --> 00:23:19,928
Come on, turn your head over
544
00:23:20,034 --> 00:23:21,344
and give me a smile.
545
00:23:21,448 --> 00:23:24,718
Hey, come on over here.
546
00:23:24,827 --> 00:23:26,897
Louis narrates: ..going through
the most profound,
547
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,000
life-changing situations.
548
00:23:29,103 --> 00:23:31,103
- What connection is there
549
00:23:31,206 --> 00:23:35,136
between a birth mum and a child?
550
00:23:35,241 --> 00:23:38,481
- It seems to be a connection
that's...
551
00:23:39,551 --> 00:23:41,341
..just there.
552
00:23:41,448 --> 00:23:43,588
I know that Isaiah feels that.
553
00:23:43,689 --> 00:23:46,479
The connection seems to be
in the heart.
554
00:23:47,482 --> 00:23:49,212
- Hi.
- How are you?
555
00:23:49,310 --> 00:23:50,550
- Good.
556
00:24:04,931 --> 00:24:07,521
Louis: Families
involve interdependence.
557
00:24:07,620 --> 00:24:08,970
We support one another.
558
00:24:09,068 --> 00:24:12,758
Very often, we are entrusted
with making decisions
559
00:24:12,862 --> 00:24:14,382
especially when
other family members
560
00:24:14,482 --> 00:24:16,662
are vulnerable in some way,
561
00:24:16,758 --> 00:24:19,788
either because they're old,
or because they're young,
562
00:24:19,896 --> 00:24:23,446
their minds are still immature,
still developing.
563
00:24:24,862 --> 00:24:27,902
We make decisions
for children all the time.
564
00:24:28,931 --> 00:24:30,171
In important respects,
565
00:24:30,275 --> 00:24:32,585
we consider
that they are incapable
566
00:24:32,689 --> 00:24:34,969
of deciding
what's best for themselves.
567
00:24:38,758 --> 00:24:40,138
The end of 2014,
568
00:24:40,241 --> 00:24:41,481
I was living in America
569
00:24:41,586 --> 00:24:43,376
and we were looking
for new ideas,
570
00:24:43,482 --> 00:24:45,242
and over the years,
571
00:24:45,344 --> 00:24:48,484
I'd seen documentaries
about trans adults,
572
00:24:48,586 --> 00:24:50,896
and people transitioning
in adulthood,
573
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,410
and then someone I worked with
574
00:24:52,517 --> 00:24:55,857
suggested a documentary
on trans kids.
575
00:24:57,413 --> 00:25:00,343
And I thought, with children,
576
00:25:00,448 --> 00:25:01,618
the stakes were higher,
577
00:25:01,724 --> 00:25:04,144
because they and their parents
578
00:25:04,241 --> 00:25:05,411
are making decisions
579
00:25:05,517 --> 00:25:07,237
that will affect
their whole lives.
580
00:25:16,586 --> 00:25:18,826
Smile.
581
00:25:18,931 --> 00:25:20,901
Louis narrates: The main family
that I spent time with,
582
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,170
the kid was called Camille...
583
00:25:23,275 --> 00:25:25,025
- Careful. Stay out of the road,
Camille.
584
00:25:25,137 --> 00:25:26,717
Louis narrates: ..and
Camille's parents were Casey
585
00:25:26,827 --> 00:25:27,897
and Eduardo.
586
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,830
Camille
had only just turned six.
587
00:25:29,931 --> 00:25:33,481
Obviously quite young,
but clearly intelligent,
588
00:25:33,586 --> 00:25:37,406
full of life, full of humour
and energy.
589
00:25:37,517 --> 00:25:40,277
Camille: Oh, my god,
that was close!
590
00:25:40,379 --> 00:25:42,139
Louis narrates:
So we accompanied Camille
591
00:25:42,241 --> 00:25:43,931
on her first visit
592
00:25:44,034 --> 00:25:47,244
to a gender specialist
called Diane Ehrensaft.
593
00:25:50,344 --> 00:25:52,764
So, Camille, the first thing
I'm gonna ask you
594
00:25:52,862 --> 00:25:55,382
is just to draw a picture
of a person.
595
00:25:56,482 --> 00:25:58,932
That's me.
I can draw myself on here.
596
00:26:06,586 --> 00:26:07,656
That's me.
597
00:26:07,758 --> 00:26:10,758
- So, when you were born
a long time ago,
598
00:26:10,862 --> 00:26:12,312
your mommy and daddy
thought they had
599
00:26:12,413 --> 00:26:14,553
a little boy named Sebastian.
600
00:26:14,655 --> 00:26:16,895
Right now,
how would you describe yourself?
601
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,380
- A girl. Not a boy, I'm a girl.
602
00:26:20,241 --> 00:26:22,341
- You're a boy and a girl,
603
00:26:22,448 --> 00:26:24,688
but you'd like to be a girl
and not a boy.
604
00:26:25,586 --> 00:26:27,136
Not a boy and a girl anymore.
605
00:26:27,241 --> 00:26:29,691
- Not a boy and a girl anymore?
- Not transgender.
606
00:26:29,793 --> 00:26:31,453
- And not transgender.
607
00:26:31,551 --> 00:26:34,691
But so, what shall we call it?
608
00:26:34,793 --> 00:26:37,383
Um, girl.
609
00:26:37,482 --> 00:26:38,792
Louis narrates: The doctors
and clinicians
610
00:26:38,896 --> 00:26:40,856
I met in San Francisco
611
00:26:40,965 --> 00:26:42,925
were supporters of the idea
612
00:26:43,034 --> 00:26:46,664
of children being able to make
the choice to transition.
613
00:26:46,758 --> 00:26:48,278
- Bye, Diane.
- Goodbye.
614
00:26:48,379 --> 00:26:49,409
Louis narrates:
What they told me was,
615
00:26:49,517 --> 00:26:50,857
"If you transition as a kid,
616
00:26:50,965 --> 00:26:53,305
"and you become a trans girl,"
let's say,
617
00:26:53,413 --> 00:26:55,763
"It was better for your
long-term mental health."
618
00:26:57,586 --> 00:26:58,786
[horn honks]
619
00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:03,380
- Hello.
- Hello.
620
00:27:03,482 --> 00:27:05,452
- Can I come in?
- Come on in.
621
00:27:05,551 --> 00:27:07,381
- A change of outfit.
Look at that.
622
00:27:09,068 --> 00:27:10,788
What's striking, looking around,
623
00:27:10,896 --> 00:27:14,446
is all the photos of Camille
as Sebastian...
624
00:27:14,551 --> 00:27:16,831
- Yeah.
- ..looking very boyish.
625
00:27:16,931 --> 00:27:18,281
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
626
00:27:18,379 --> 00:27:20,099
- To me, that one's a tough one,
627
00:27:20,206 --> 00:27:24,516
because that was the last time
we captured Sebastian.
628
00:27:24,620 --> 00:27:27,340
In honest opinion,
that was the last time
629
00:27:27,448 --> 00:27:30,548
we saw that, you know,
spikey little hair,
630
00:27:30,655 --> 00:27:32,165
and the cute little clothes.
631
00:27:32,275 --> 00:27:33,995
I think it was really, for me,
632
00:27:34,103 --> 00:27:36,003
kind of saying goodbye.
633
00:27:36,103 --> 00:27:39,593
And I don't...and it's not
a bad thing in my mind,
634
00:27:39,689 --> 00:27:42,449
it's kind of like, "Yeah,
that was the phase. We're done."
635
00:27:43,896 --> 00:27:46,786
Louis: What is going on?
Camille, what are you doing?
636
00:27:46,896 --> 00:27:48,026
Putting lipstick on.
637
00:27:49,965 --> 00:27:52,825
- How...for how long
have you been using Camille
638
00:27:52,931 --> 00:27:56,661
and the 'she' pronoun at home?
639
00:27:56,758 --> 00:27:57,898
- A month.
- A month.
640
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,100
- Just a month, so this
is all really new for you.
641
00:28:00,206 --> 00:28:01,516
This is very, very new.
642
00:28:01,620 --> 00:28:03,830
We get confused quite often.
643
00:28:03,931 --> 00:28:05,451
- How are you feeling about it?
644
00:28:07,620 --> 00:28:09,790
I'm fine.
645
00:28:09,896 --> 00:28:13,406
It's just hard getting used
to going from one to the other.
646
00:28:13,517 --> 00:28:15,827
It's difficult,
it's really difficult.
647
00:28:15,931 --> 00:28:17,481
It's not an easy thing to do.
648
00:28:17,586 --> 00:28:19,236
- Do you find it confusing ever?
649
00:28:19,344 --> 00:28:21,384
- Yeah, yeah.
650
00:28:21,482 --> 00:28:24,312
I think that's kind of
par for the course sometimes,
651
00:28:24,413 --> 00:28:26,863
and I think it's that way
with kids a lot,
652
00:28:26,965 --> 00:28:30,825
but definitely with discovering
who you are as a person.
653
00:28:30,931 --> 00:28:32,901
- Trying to figure out
what is solid
654
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,930
and consistent and dependable?
655
00:28:35,034 --> 00:28:37,694
And cater to that
and support that.
656
00:28:37,793 --> 00:28:39,593
It is difficult.
657
00:28:39,689 --> 00:28:41,479
I'm not gonna lie,
it's not easy.
658
00:28:41,586 --> 00:28:42,856
This is not a very easy thing.
659
00:28:42,965 --> 00:28:46,545
We may have had
not so bad of a time at this,
660
00:28:46,655 --> 00:28:49,655
but it's not an easy road
to travel. You...
661
00:28:52,137 --> 00:28:53,757
It's gut wrenching...
662
00:28:54,896 --> 00:28:55,926
..honestly.
663
00:29:07,793 --> 00:29:09,143
Louis narrates:
The hub of the action
664
00:29:09,241 --> 00:29:10,141
for the programme
665
00:29:10,241 --> 00:29:15,171
was a gender clinic
at UC San Francisco.
666
00:29:16,448 --> 00:29:17,548
Charlie.
667
00:29:17,655 --> 00:29:21,445
So, do you prefer boy pronouns
like 'he',
668
00:29:21,551 --> 00:29:23,071
or girl pronouns like 'she'?
669
00:29:23,172 --> 00:29:24,862
I just want to do it
the way you want it.
670
00:29:24,965 --> 00:29:26,065
On the face of it,
you have what seems
671
00:29:26,172 --> 00:29:30,212
a relatively
straightforward...process -
672
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:32,140
the decision to support
the child
673
00:29:32,241 --> 00:29:35,521
in how he or she
views him or herself,
674
00:29:35,620 --> 00:29:37,690
in terms of, you know,
their gender...
675
00:29:39,620 --> 00:29:41,900
..but there are also
medical interventions
676
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,030
that go along with that.
677
00:29:44,413 --> 00:29:46,343
Louis: What's he doing?
678
00:29:46,448 --> 00:29:50,338
A month ago,
he had another implant put in.
679
00:29:50,448 --> 00:29:51,998
What do you mean by an implant?
680
00:29:52,103 --> 00:29:54,523
Shay's on a puberty blocker.
681
00:29:54,620 --> 00:29:56,590
- Hi, Shay. I'm Louis.
682
00:29:56,689 --> 00:29:57,619
As you understand it,
683
00:29:57,724 --> 00:30:00,454
what is that little thing
in there doing?
684
00:30:00,551 --> 00:30:02,211
- Making it
so I don't go through puberty.
685
00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:04,410
- And why don't you want
to go through puberty?
686
00:30:04,517 --> 00:30:06,657
- Because I don't want
to be a girl.
687
00:30:06,758 --> 00:30:08,238
- You don't want to?
- No.
688
00:30:08,344 --> 00:30:10,414
As puberty looms on the horizon,
689
00:30:10,517 --> 00:30:12,407
the child is given...
690
00:30:12,517 --> 00:30:15,137
assuming he or she wants
to keep on that path,
691
00:30:15,241 --> 00:30:16,661
given puberty blockers,
692
00:30:16,758 --> 00:30:20,138
and then at a certain point,
cross gender hormones,
693
00:30:20,241 --> 00:30:24,381
all of which are quite serious
biological interventions.
694
00:30:24,482 --> 00:30:26,552
Any way you look at it,
it's a big decision,
695
00:30:26,655 --> 00:30:30,965
on a question that will have
lifelong medical consequences
696
00:30:31,068 --> 00:30:32,998
and psychological consequences.
697
00:30:37,758 --> 00:30:38,928
The heart of the documentary
698
00:30:39,034 --> 00:30:42,004
was Camille
and Camille's family...
699
00:30:42,103 --> 00:30:45,103
..just following the process
of the transition,
700
00:30:45,206 --> 00:30:47,066
and I was there
701
00:30:47,172 --> 00:30:51,412
when Camille went to school
in a dress for the first time.
702
00:30:53,724 --> 00:30:56,454
Louis!
[parents chuckle]
703
00:30:59,689 --> 00:31:02,029
- Hello, there. How's it going?
704
00:31:04,724 --> 00:31:06,724
Look at you! What a nice dress.
705
00:31:11,517 --> 00:31:13,657
Was it any different
706
00:31:13,758 --> 00:31:15,718
wearing a dress
than it is normally?
707
00:31:19,206 --> 00:31:22,236
You don't think Camille
is still exploring...
708
00:31:23,965 --> 00:31:25,165
..trying different things?
709
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,340
I don't know.
710
00:31:27,448 --> 00:31:29,618
Honestly, it's been such a...
711
00:31:31,241 --> 00:31:33,311
..quick journey
in the last one year
712
00:31:33,413 --> 00:31:34,483
that we've been
going through this
713
00:31:34,586 --> 00:31:36,546
that it doesn't feel like...
714
00:31:38,655 --> 00:31:41,305
..there's a lot of
the exploration left.
715
00:31:41,413 --> 00:31:42,383
Now it's...
716
00:31:43,344 --> 00:31:45,244
..big leaps and bounds forward.
717
00:31:46,448 --> 00:31:47,928
- After the program went out...
718
00:31:49,137 --> 00:31:50,447
..I had the impression that
719
00:31:50,551 --> 00:31:54,141
we were kind of surfing the wave
of quite a big cultural moment.
720
00:31:56,137 --> 00:32:00,167
Literally, within a month or so
around our transmission...
721
00:32:01,172 --> 00:32:03,142
..in 2015...
722
00:32:03,241 --> 00:32:06,901
..Caitlyn Jenner
came out as trans.
723
00:32:08,103 --> 00:32:11,593
Actors like Laverne Cox.
724
00:32:11,689 --> 00:32:13,859
But then, increasingly,
you heard dissenting voices.
725
00:32:13,965 --> 00:32:15,275
Now, in recent years,
726
00:32:15,379 --> 00:32:18,309
there's been a huge increase
in the number of children
727
00:32:18,413 --> 00:32:20,313
reporting gender dysphoria.
728
00:32:20,413 --> 00:32:21,593
Louis narrates:
Early transitioning
729
00:32:21,689 --> 00:32:22,789
became a topic of debate
730
00:32:22,896 --> 00:32:24,966
on the most mainstream
TV shows.
731
00:32:25,068 --> 00:32:27,618
There are now people
who are in their mid-20s,
732
00:32:27,724 --> 00:32:30,384
and there's no coincidence
about that age, either,
733
00:32:30,482 --> 00:32:31,862
but in their mid-20s,
734
00:32:31,965 --> 00:32:33,895
who are looking back and saying,
735
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,790
"I really regret
what I've done."
736
00:32:35,896 --> 00:32:37,336
You know,
it's a little over five years
737
00:32:37,448 --> 00:32:40,518
since I saw Camille
and the family.
738
00:32:41,586 --> 00:32:42,616
But we've stayed in touch,
739
00:32:42,724 --> 00:32:45,104
and Camille's now 11 years old.
740
00:32:47,034 --> 00:32:50,244
In the end, I try and focus on
what I can see,
741
00:32:50,344 --> 00:32:52,664
which is Camille's story.
742
00:32:53,724 --> 00:32:55,484
Loving, supportive parents,
743
00:32:55,586 --> 00:32:57,206
trying to do the best thing
for Camille.
744
00:32:57,310 --> 00:32:58,210
Hello.
745
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:59,620
Hey! How you doing?
746
00:32:59,724 --> 00:33:01,554
Good. How are you?
747
00:33:01,655 --> 00:33:02,895
Louis narrates:
And they're moving along,
748
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,030
full-steam ahead,
with her transition.
749
00:33:06,137 --> 00:33:09,897
I mean, that's...these are
big decisions that she's made,
750
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,520
and she's made them
informed decisions.
751
00:33:11,620 --> 00:33:14,930
No decision is made
by any of us.
752
00:33:15,034 --> 00:33:16,484
It's all Camille-led.
753
00:33:16,586 --> 00:33:18,826
[laughs] She's the president
of this team,
754
00:33:18,931 --> 00:33:21,171
and then now we're hitting
puberty.
755
00:33:21,275 --> 00:33:25,615
We're gonna be getting
her puberty blocker installed.
756
00:33:25,724 --> 00:33:28,794
"Installed" - it sounds
like a car! [laughs]
757
00:33:28,896 --> 00:33:31,656
- Does that feel like
a big step?
758
00:33:31,758 --> 00:33:32,828
Does that feel like a choice
759
00:33:32,931 --> 00:33:35,031
that you need to think about
and interrogate?
760
00:33:35,137 --> 00:33:36,027
Or does that just feel like,
761
00:33:36,137 --> 00:33:38,547
"OK,
that's what we're gonna do"?
762
00:33:38,655 --> 00:33:40,065
Yeah, it just feels like...
763
00:33:40,172 --> 00:33:41,902
Yeah,
it's just gonna happen that...
764
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,410
I really don't care
because this is...
765
00:33:43,517 --> 00:33:45,827
I know this is what I want.
766
00:33:45,931 --> 00:33:49,341
- That's an excellent summation
of who she is as a person.
767
00:33:49,448 --> 00:33:50,998
She really is the kid
768
00:33:51,103 --> 00:33:53,723
who knows
exactly what she wants,
769
00:33:53,827 --> 00:33:55,827
every second of every day,
770
00:33:55,931 --> 00:33:58,211
and moves forward with it,
771
00:33:58,310 --> 00:34:00,240
and never questions herself.
772
00:34:02,137 --> 00:34:03,477
Louis narrates: To me,
what's most important
773
00:34:03,586 --> 00:34:04,686
is they seem
to be doing really well,
774
00:34:04,793 --> 00:34:07,143
- and that Camille seems happy.
- Bye!
775
00:34:07,241 --> 00:34:10,171
She's growing up,
she's super smart,
776
00:34:10,275 --> 00:34:13,545
comes across as mature
and well-adjusted,
777
00:34:13,655 --> 00:34:15,755
so that's what I see.
778
00:34:19,896 --> 00:34:21,096
Come on!
779
00:34:37,551 --> 00:34:40,861
- 2015, I was living in London
with the family,
780
00:34:40,965 --> 00:34:43,095
and we'd had our third son,
781
00:34:43,206 --> 00:34:46,786
and I couldn't really travel
for work.
782
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,830
For the previous 20 years,
783
00:34:49,931 --> 00:34:52,521
I'd been making programmes
in America and elsewhere,
784
00:34:52,620 --> 00:34:53,860
but not in the UK.
785
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,140
I think for me,
786
00:34:56,241 --> 00:34:58,521
there'd always been
a kind of safety
787
00:34:58,620 --> 00:35:03,140
in being among people
who were very different to me...
788
00:35:03,241 --> 00:35:05,861
..and now, here I was,
faced with doing stories
789
00:35:05,965 --> 00:35:08,825
with no culture difference
to hide behind.
790
00:35:08,931 --> 00:35:10,381
I'm gonna count to five...
791
00:35:11,275 --> 00:35:12,895
One of the ideas I looked at
792
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,930
was to do with brain injury.
793
00:35:19,172 --> 00:35:22,522
A lot of the film
centred on a family.
794
00:35:22,620 --> 00:35:24,790
Rob and Amanda
were the parents' names.
795
00:35:24,896 --> 00:35:26,166
The children, the two boys,
796
00:35:26,275 --> 00:35:28,715
were a similar age
to my two oldest boys,
797
00:35:28,827 --> 00:35:30,927
and Amanda
had fallen off a horse.
798
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:33,280
- Hi, Rob.
- Good morning.
799
00:35:33,379 --> 00:35:34,689
- How you doing? Alright?
- Louis.
800
00:35:34,793 --> 00:35:36,243
Louis narrates:
She'd spent 18 months
801
00:35:36,344 --> 00:35:38,034
in a brain injury unit.
802
00:35:38,137 --> 00:35:39,857
When we arrived the first time,
803
00:35:39,965 --> 00:35:43,065
she's only literally
a couple of days
804
00:35:43,172 --> 00:35:45,832
out of supported accommodation
805
00:35:45,931 --> 00:35:50,281
and they'd put a huge effort
into adapting their home
806
00:35:50,379 --> 00:35:52,619
so that she could live there,
in an annexe.
807
00:35:54,379 --> 00:35:56,309
So, it's a story
that's both extreme
808
00:35:56,413 --> 00:35:58,033
and very close to home.
809
00:35:59,862 --> 00:36:02,282
- So, this is your new house?
810
00:36:02,379 --> 00:36:04,789
- Yes, this is all...
Yeah, the main bit we have.
811
00:36:04,896 --> 00:36:07,276
- And you've been here
for how long?
812
00:36:07,379 --> 00:36:08,859
- Two weeks this weekend.
- Two weeks.
813
00:36:13,137 --> 00:36:15,547
Pictures!
814
00:36:15,655 --> 00:36:18,135
Is it nice having Mummy
back living with you?
815
00:36:18,241 --> 00:36:19,311
- Yeah.
816
00:36:19,413 --> 00:36:21,213
- Quite a big change, isn't it?
- Yeah.
817
00:36:21,310 --> 00:36:22,660
Kiss.
818
00:36:22,758 --> 00:36:24,208
- Mwah!
- Properly.
819
00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:25,210
- Nah.
820
00:36:25,310 --> 00:36:27,100
- Yes.
- Oh.
821
00:36:27,206 --> 00:36:28,206
Mwah.
822
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:30,720
- That's too quick and rubbish.
- Never mind.
823
00:36:30,827 --> 00:36:32,167
- Where's Daddy gone?
- I mind.
824
00:36:32,275 --> 00:36:33,475
- Where's Daddy?
825
00:36:35,172 --> 00:36:36,862
- Where is Amanda?
826
00:36:36,965 --> 00:36:38,715
So, this is Amanda's bedroom,
827
00:36:38,827 --> 00:36:40,027
Amanda's kitchen.
828
00:36:40,137 --> 00:36:41,477
Whether she uses it or not,
I don't know.
829
00:36:41,586 --> 00:36:42,966
She hasn't yet, so it's...
830
00:36:43,068 --> 00:36:44,208
There is a lock on there.
831
00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:46,240
That was
one of Amanda's stipulations,
832
00:36:46,344 --> 00:36:47,484
that she wanted the door locked.
833
00:36:47,586 --> 00:36:50,406
- She wanted a lock on the door?
- Yes, yeah.
834
00:36:51,137 --> 00:36:52,517
What was that about?
835
00:36:52,620 --> 00:36:55,310
- Erm, perhaps a bit of privacy,
I think.
836
00:36:55,413 --> 00:36:57,693
You know,
she's been in an institution
837
00:36:57,793 --> 00:36:59,143
for such a long time,
838
00:36:59,241 --> 00:37:00,661
I think for her to come home
839
00:37:00,758 --> 00:37:02,338
and have
just a bit of independence,
840
00:37:02,448 --> 00:37:04,068
to be honest.
841
00:37:04,172 --> 00:37:05,972
- That's Amanda, is it?
- Mm-hm.
842
00:37:06,068 --> 00:37:08,658
- Yeah. That's Amanda there.
- Is that Amanda?
843
00:37:08,758 --> 00:37:09,968
- Yeah.
- What was that for?
844
00:37:10,068 --> 00:37:11,068
Amanda: ABBA night.
845
00:37:11,172 --> 00:37:13,242
- Oh, yeah.
- Now, where are you, Rob?
846
00:37:13,344 --> 00:37:17,284
- Err, there, there.
- So that's you.
847
00:37:17,379 --> 00:37:19,999
So, on Wednesday,
you came back from the unit.
848
00:37:20,103 --> 00:37:21,693
- Yes.
- And, as I understand it,
849
00:37:21,793 --> 00:37:24,833
to begin with, you were saying
that you'd like to come out
850
00:37:24,931 --> 00:37:26,901
- to your own house...
- Yes.
851
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,720
..and not even be
in the family home.
852
00:37:29,827 --> 00:37:32,167
- Yes. Mm-hm.
- Is that right? Why was that?
853
00:37:32,275 --> 00:37:33,755
- Erm, I don't know.
854
00:37:33,862 --> 00:37:35,692
I just felt I would be
better on my own,
855
00:37:35,793 --> 00:37:38,723
me and my dogs and my cats.
856
00:37:38,827 --> 00:37:40,587
- Amanda having her own house
isn't doable.
857
00:37:40,689 --> 00:37:42,549
She would need a 24/7 carer.
858
00:37:42,655 --> 00:37:44,755
It's cheaper for Amanda
to go into a care home.
859
00:37:46,034 --> 00:37:48,974
That's a 38-year-old
going into a care home.
860
00:37:49,758 --> 00:37:51,448
No way.
861
00:37:51,551 --> 00:37:54,141
- That's just...
- I wouldn't have minded.
862
00:37:55,724 --> 00:37:57,864
No, sadly.
863
00:37:57,965 --> 00:37:59,855
As far as you are aware,
864
00:37:59,965 --> 00:38:01,615
you feel you're the same person.
865
00:38:01,724 --> 00:38:02,664
- Yes.
- And you've got
866
00:38:02,758 --> 00:38:04,968
some physical things
that you need to work on.
867
00:38:05,068 --> 00:38:06,928
- Yes.
- But there haven't been,
868
00:38:07,034 --> 00:38:09,864
sort of in your own sense
of things,
869
00:38:09,965 --> 00:38:14,855
personality changes, or even
brain damage, if you like.
870
00:38:14,965 --> 00:38:17,855
- Mmm, that's how I feel.
- Is that how you feel about it?
871
00:38:17,965 --> 00:38:20,615
- Rob, is that your perspective,
as well?
872
00:38:20,724 --> 00:38:21,934
No.
873
00:38:22,034 --> 00:38:24,694
No, I mean Amanda's
still Amanda, of course,
874
00:38:24,793 --> 00:38:27,213
and there's still lots
of Amanda...
875
00:38:27,310 --> 00:38:29,280
I say the 'old' Amanda,
it's not the right word to use,
876
00:38:29,379 --> 00:38:32,169
but there's definite changes...
877
00:38:32,275 --> 00:38:33,235
..you know, without a doubt.
878
00:38:33,344 --> 00:38:35,344
Especially on the emotional side
of it -
879
00:38:35,448 --> 00:38:37,718
like, I find that quite hard.
880
00:38:37,827 --> 00:38:40,517
Your emotions are quite flat,
881
00:38:40,620 --> 00:38:43,170
and I do notice that things
annoy you more.
882
00:38:43,275 --> 00:38:45,755
I mean, you've always said that
you've lost your squishy side.
883
00:38:45,862 --> 00:38:46,972
Mm-hm.
884
00:38:47,068 --> 00:38:49,378
- At the risk of asking
an intrusive question,
885
00:38:49,482 --> 00:38:50,792
so you've been together
22 years?
886
00:38:50,896 --> 00:38:52,856
Rob: Mm-hm.
- That's a long relationship.
887
00:38:52,965 --> 00:38:54,545
Amanda: Yes.
- Were you happy together?
888
00:38:54,655 --> 00:38:56,275
- Yes.
- Very, yeah.
889
00:38:56,379 --> 00:38:57,519
Good team.
890
00:38:58,379 --> 00:39:00,409
Best buddies. It was good.
891
00:39:01,551 --> 00:39:03,381
Yeah, it was good,
and it still is good,
892
00:39:03,482 --> 00:39:05,972
just different,
for the time being.
893
00:39:06,068 --> 00:39:08,068
[inhales deeply] Yeah.
894
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:13,170
- Stop tapping.
- I know, drumming constantly.
895
00:39:13,275 --> 00:39:14,335
Stop it.
896
00:39:17,310 --> 00:39:18,480
Louis narrates: It became clear
897
00:39:18,586 --> 00:39:20,686
that there were strains there.
898
00:39:20,793 --> 00:39:24,173
Strains that, in some way,
were completely recognisable
899
00:39:24,275 --> 00:39:26,405
from any young family.
900
00:39:26,517 --> 00:39:28,307
- Oh, a little chip.
901
00:39:28,413 --> 00:39:29,933
Louis narrates:
Kids not behaving,
902
00:39:30,034 --> 00:39:32,214
Mum and Dad
being tetchy with each other
903
00:39:32,310 --> 00:39:34,170
because they're tired,
or whatever...
904
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:35,970
- Nice.
905
00:39:36,068 --> 00:39:38,758
- ..but with that
sort of multiplied
906
00:39:38,862 --> 00:39:41,452
by the brain condition
that Amanda had.
907
00:39:45,310 --> 00:39:46,550
A few weeks later,
908
00:39:46,655 --> 00:39:50,335
I went back for a second visit
to see how it was going.
909
00:39:50,448 --> 00:39:52,338
- All OK?
- Yeah, good.
910
00:39:52,448 --> 00:39:55,518
- Been difficult, hasn't it?
- Yeah.
911
00:39:55,620 --> 00:39:57,380
- Difficult in what way?
912
00:39:57,482 --> 00:40:01,002
- Um... Just we'd sort of
had the idea
913
00:40:01,103 --> 00:40:03,103
that Amanda
was gonna be in the annexe,
914
00:40:03,206 --> 00:40:06,686
- that was her sort of...
- I'm dead. I'm dead.
915
00:40:06,793 --> 00:40:08,763
..prerequisite for coming home,
916
00:40:08,862 --> 00:40:11,452
was that she would stay
in the annexe,
917
00:40:11,551 --> 00:40:13,031
but she hasn't, so it's made it
a little bit difficult.
918
00:40:13,137 --> 00:40:17,687
Amanda's...not brilliant
with the boys,
919
00:40:17,793 --> 00:40:21,903
just because she's got
a bit of a short fuse.
920
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,690
And as she says,
she's lost her 'squidgy bit',
921
00:40:23,793 --> 00:40:26,593
so she'll go
from being super, super nice
922
00:40:26,689 --> 00:40:28,549
to... [imitates explosion]
..straight in,
923
00:40:28,655 --> 00:40:32,235
all singing, all dancing,
lots of shouting.
924
00:40:32,344 --> 00:40:35,144
You said you've found it
a bit hard, Mummy being back.
925
00:40:35,241 --> 00:40:36,691
Why was that?
926
00:40:36,793 --> 00:40:39,413
- Because she's been shouting
at me non-stop.
927
00:40:39,517 --> 00:40:41,137
Ooh, a blue tit! Sorry.
928
00:40:41,241 --> 00:40:44,621
Err, yeah, she's been
shouting at me non-stop.
929
00:40:44,724 --> 00:40:46,174
- Yeah, well, I could see
that would be hard.
930
00:40:47,344 --> 00:40:49,144
- Yeah.
- Because of the brain injury.
931
00:40:49,241 --> 00:40:50,521
Yeah.
932
00:40:51,448 --> 00:40:54,308
- Oscar, are you hungry?
- Mmm?
933
00:40:54,413 --> 00:40:57,623
- I'm tuning it!
- No, thank you. I'm not hungry.
934
00:40:57,724 --> 00:41:00,454
[indistinct chatter from TV]
935
00:41:00,551 --> 00:41:03,661
How do you feel now
about being back?
936
00:41:03,758 --> 00:41:05,338
- You feel it's the right move?
- It's nice.
937
00:41:05,448 --> 00:41:07,858
I get to see my kids
every day...
938
00:41:07,965 --> 00:41:09,995
..even if
they don't want to see me.
939
00:41:10,931 --> 00:41:11,861
- Hey!
940
00:41:11,965 --> 00:41:14,165
- You wouldn't cuddle me
last night before bed.
941
00:41:14,275 --> 00:41:15,335
[babbles]
942
00:41:17,551 --> 00:41:19,241
- That made me sad.
943
00:41:19,344 --> 00:41:20,834
- I know, but...
944
00:41:20,931 --> 00:41:22,031
"I know, but" what?
945
00:41:22,137 --> 00:41:24,517
- I was already in bed
snuggled up
946
00:41:24,620 --> 00:41:27,280
- really, really, really tight.
- I only wanted a cuddle.
947
00:41:27,379 --> 00:41:30,339
Do you care
that you made me sad?
948
00:41:30,448 --> 00:41:34,518
[groans] It's not that, it's...
[groans]
949
00:41:35,965 --> 00:41:38,135
He wouldn't give me a cuddle
night-night.
950
00:41:38,241 --> 00:41:39,311
- No, it's not that, it's...
951
00:41:41,137 --> 00:41:42,407
- Do you still love me?
952
00:41:42,517 --> 00:41:45,587
Yes! Why wouldn't I?
953
00:41:45,689 --> 00:41:47,719
- Because
you don't behave like you do.
954
00:41:51,793 --> 00:41:54,383
Louis: You get the feeling
that aspects of family life
955
00:41:54,482 --> 00:41:56,902
really grated
on Amanda's nerves,
956
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,690
and, you know, one of the things
that a brain injury can do
957
00:41:59,793 --> 00:42:01,483
is sort of rub away
some of that...
958
00:42:01,586 --> 00:42:05,306
patience, tolerance,
sense of forbearing.
959
00:42:05,413 --> 00:42:07,243
Rob: You ready to attempt
this Thai green curry?
960
00:42:07,344 --> 00:42:10,284
- Is it worth attempting?
- I hope so.
961
00:42:11,931 --> 00:42:15,311
Louis narrates: Amanda
wasn't totally happy.
962
00:42:15,413 --> 00:42:18,343
Rob seemed, to me,
close to breaking point.
963
00:42:20,724 --> 00:42:22,904
Amanda: You laugh at me.
964
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,900
I wasn't laughing at you,
I was just laughing.
965
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,100
- Mmm.
966
00:42:27,724 --> 00:42:28,974
Mm-hm.
967
00:42:30,448 --> 00:42:32,338
- Don't believe you.
- No.
968
00:42:32,448 --> 00:42:34,098
- It feels like
969
00:42:34,206 --> 00:42:37,996
you're a little bit angry
with Rob.
970
00:42:40,413 --> 00:42:42,903
He makes me out
to be a bad person.
971
00:42:44,137 --> 00:42:46,687
You believe I'm a bad person.
972
00:42:47,931 --> 00:42:48,931
Mmm.
973
00:42:49,034 --> 00:42:50,904
Louis: Do you really
believe that about Rob,
974
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,140
that he thinks
you're actually a bad person?
975
00:42:53,241 --> 00:42:54,281
- Yeah, I do.
976
00:42:55,793 --> 00:42:58,933
Take that grin off your face,
smoky pants.
977
00:42:59,724 --> 00:43:00,974
[Amanda chuckles softly]
978
00:43:01,068 --> 00:43:02,758
Yeah, it's a grin
counteracting a...
979
00:43:02,862 --> 00:43:04,142
- You don't really think that
about Rob,
980
00:43:04,241 --> 00:43:05,141
- do you?
- I do.
981
00:43:05,241 --> 00:43:08,451
He doesn't like
the way I am now.
982
00:43:08,551 --> 00:43:11,031
But like I said,
the person he married
983
00:43:11,137 --> 00:43:12,997
died the day I fell off
that horse.
984
00:43:13,103 --> 00:43:15,143
I am what's left...
985
00:43:15,241 --> 00:43:17,591
..and I don't think
I'm enough for you anymore.
986
00:43:17,689 --> 00:43:20,409
You don't feel loved by Rob?
987
00:43:20,517 --> 00:43:22,207
- No, not particularly.
988
00:43:22,310 --> 00:43:24,170
I feel like I'm a burden.
989
00:43:25,413 --> 00:43:27,663
- Rob was saying
that he would like more
990
00:43:27,758 --> 00:43:30,338
of the sort of cuddling,
991
00:43:30,448 --> 00:43:32,518
- "I love you"...
- Mm-hm.
992
00:43:33,931 --> 00:43:35,971
- ..stuff.
- He's just a perv.
993
00:43:37,241 --> 00:43:39,341
- OK.
[all laugh]
994
00:43:39,448 --> 00:43:41,998
Just go and get a shag,
I don't care.
995
00:43:44,172 --> 00:43:45,312
What's up, Oscar?
996
00:43:46,310 --> 00:43:47,480
- What do you need?
997
00:43:47,586 --> 00:43:48,966
Louis: What I took away
from the experience
998
00:43:49,068 --> 00:43:50,028
of filming with them
999
00:43:50,137 --> 00:43:52,447
was that life
can be very unfair.
1000
00:43:52,551 --> 00:43:55,381
That a lightening strike
of misfortune
1001
00:43:55,482 --> 00:43:57,592
can derail your life.
1002
00:43:57,689 --> 00:43:59,029
And as much as they adapted,
1003
00:43:59,137 --> 00:44:01,277
as much as they did their best
with the new situation,
1004
00:44:01,379 --> 00:44:02,549
there's no question in my mind
1005
00:44:02,655 --> 00:44:05,275
that the horse fall
and the brain injury
1006
00:44:05,379 --> 00:44:06,479
was horrendous,
1007
00:44:06,586 --> 00:44:09,336
and they had to get on
with life.
1008
00:44:09,448 --> 00:44:13,238
So these profound,
life-changing events...
1009
00:44:14,931 --> 00:44:17,101
..you know, you tend to go,
kind of stumble through life
1010
00:44:17,206 --> 00:44:19,546
thinking,
"Don't sweat the small stuff -
1011
00:44:19,655 --> 00:44:20,895
"brackets -
it's all small stuff."
1012
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,280
Well, some of it
isn't small stuff.
1013
00:44:26,931 --> 00:44:30,171
Amanda's moved out
of the family home.
1014
00:44:30,275 --> 00:44:33,965
She's got her own place now,
with round-the-clock support.
1015
00:44:34,068 --> 00:44:36,098
Rob is checking up on her
most days.
1016
00:44:36,206 --> 00:44:38,136
They speak every day
1017
00:44:38,241 --> 00:44:41,621
and he'll take the boys over
every weekend to see her.
1018
00:44:44,034 --> 00:44:46,904
- Hello.
- Hello. [laughs]
1019
00:44:47,724 --> 00:44:49,934
- You're looking quite red.
1020
00:44:50,034 --> 00:44:52,284
Is it my screen
or are you actually that red?
1021
00:44:52,379 --> 00:44:55,789
- I don't know.
Perhaps I've got a disease.
1022
00:44:55,896 --> 00:44:57,616
You... [laughs]
1023
00:44:57,724 --> 00:44:59,144
- Am I red?
Rob: Yeah, you're red.
1024
00:44:59,241 --> 00:45:01,171
I'm red, apparently.
1025
00:45:01,275 --> 00:45:02,445
Rob's there with you.
1026
00:45:02,551 --> 00:45:03,551
- Hiya!
- Yes.
1027
00:45:03,655 --> 00:45:05,925
- I'm hiding, I'm here.
Oh, you can't see me.
1028
00:45:06,034 --> 00:45:07,004
- I can see you now.
1029
00:45:07,103 --> 00:45:08,903
You're looking quite red,
as well.
1030
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,450
Thank you for doing this.
1031
00:45:11,551 --> 00:45:13,141
Your life was changed...
1032
00:45:14,275 --> 00:45:15,475
..beyond recognition,
1033
00:45:15,586 --> 00:45:19,716
and when you look back,
how do you make sense of it?
1034
00:45:20,689 --> 00:45:22,589
- There is no sense to be made.
1035
00:45:22,689 --> 00:45:27,139
It just is what it is,
and I was unlucky.
1036
00:45:27,241 --> 00:45:30,661
And they gave me
a 30% chance of survival
1037
00:45:30,758 --> 00:45:32,518
and I proved them wrong,
1038
00:45:32,620 --> 00:45:33,860
'cause I'm still here.
1039
00:45:33,965 --> 00:45:36,515
How's your relationship
with Rob?
1040
00:45:36,620 --> 00:45:38,070
He's still my best friend.
1041
00:45:39,344 --> 00:45:41,864
And he's now
got a new girlfriend.
1042
00:45:42,689 --> 00:45:44,139
So, yeah,
1043
00:45:44,241 --> 00:45:48,031
he's moved on with his life.
I'm happy being single.
1044
00:45:48,137 --> 00:45:49,377
- What I observed was,
1045
00:45:49,482 --> 00:45:52,792
you do quite a bit of...teasing
of Rob.
1046
00:45:54,068 --> 00:45:57,448
I was 17 when...
I was still at school
1047
00:45:57,551 --> 00:45:58,791
when we met,
1048
00:45:58,896 --> 00:46:01,656
and now I am 40-flipping-3
1049
00:46:01,758 --> 00:46:04,518
and I still love him.
1050
00:46:04,620 --> 00:46:07,030
And he still makes me laugh
and he's still a bugger.
1051
00:46:07,137 --> 00:46:09,927
[chuckles] But he's mine.
1052
00:46:10,034 --> 00:46:12,344
I wonder if it would make sense
to talk to the both of you
1053
00:46:12,448 --> 00:46:14,068
- together for a minute.
- OK.
1054
00:46:14,172 --> 00:46:15,312
Would you be alright to do that?
1055
00:46:15,413 --> 00:46:16,723
- Yeah.
1056
00:46:16,827 --> 00:46:18,857
- There he is. [chuckles]
1057
00:46:18,965 --> 00:46:22,545
He's hiding behind the door.
Come in!
1058
00:46:22,655 --> 00:46:23,925
If I can just
1059
00:46:24,034 --> 00:46:27,284
take an outsider's perspective
for a moment...
1060
00:46:27,379 --> 00:46:29,549
..what I am hearing is
you're happy in your house,
1061
00:46:29,655 --> 00:46:34,895
but you feel Rob's moved on
in a way that's really painful.
1062
00:46:35,931 --> 00:46:38,171
Yes he has, but are you happy?
1063
00:46:38,275 --> 00:46:39,335
- Yeah.
1064
00:46:39,448 --> 00:46:41,338
- Do you love her?
- Yeah.
1065
00:46:41,448 --> 00:46:42,588
- You do?
- Yeah.
1066
00:46:42,689 --> 00:46:44,689
Ah, that's the first time
he's said that.
1067
00:46:46,413 --> 00:46:48,483
Yeah, but I don't really
talk about it with you
1068
00:46:48,586 --> 00:46:49,686
because it'll probably hurt.
1069
00:46:49,793 --> 00:46:52,593
Well, it does anyway.
It's been three years.
1070
00:46:52,689 --> 00:46:53,689
Rob: Mmm.
1071
00:46:53,793 --> 00:46:55,973
If Rob ever decided, like,
1072
00:46:56,068 --> 00:46:59,138
in order to make
his new relationship work,
1073
00:46:59,241 --> 00:47:01,411
that he needed to establish
more distance...
1074
00:47:02,379 --> 00:47:04,449
..from you, Amanda,
1075
00:47:04,551 --> 00:47:07,031
would you be able to let go,
do you think?
1076
00:47:07,137 --> 00:47:09,067
I already have.
1077
00:47:09,172 --> 00:47:11,832
It doesn't make me happy,
but I have.
1078
00:47:11,931 --> 00:47:14,791
He's got his own life,
I just disapprove.
1079
00:47:17,172 --> 00:47:18,792
So I've already let go.
1080
00:47:20,827 --> 00:47:21,827
There you go.
1081
00:47:21,931 --> 00:47:24,171
But you call him quite a lot,
I think.
1082
00:47:25,448 --> 00:47:26,998
Erm, every day.
1083
00:47:28,172 --> 00:47:29,722
- Maybe more than once?
1084
00:47:29,827 --> 00:47:31,717
- Only if he doesn't answer.
1085
00:47:35,482 --> 00:47:36,762
If Rob said, "OK,
1086
00:47:36,862 --> 00:47:39,382
"in order to move on
with my life,
1087
00:47:39,482 --> 00:47:41,212
"I need you to stop calling"...?
1088
00:47:42,689 --> 00:47:45,309
I'd be sad, but I would stop.
1089
00:47:46,793 --> 00:47:49,073
That's it,
I'm not calling you ever again.
1090
00:47:49,172 --> 00:47:50,172
OK, that's fine, that's fine.
1091
00:47:50,275 --> 00:47:51,895
OK, done.
1092
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,100
- That's never gonna happen.
- There we go.
1093
00:47:54,206 --> 00:47:56,306
I'm glad I could
sort that out for you.
1094
00:47:56,413 --> 00:47:57,413
- Yeah.
1095
00:47:57,517 --> 00:47:59,167
[both laugh]
1096
00:48:01,448 --> 00:48:02,758
[baby coos]
1097
00:48:04,275 --> 00:48:05,825
Please, don't.
1098
00:48:06,793 --> 00:48:07,933
Rob: Mummy!
1099
00:48:08,724 --> 00:48:10,554
Mind this arm, that's it,
1100
00:48:10,655 --> 00:48:12,785
and you can sit on my leg.
That's better.
1101
00:48:12,896 --> 00:48:14,686
Rob: There's the two brothers.
1102
00:48:17,896 --> 00:48:19,406
Amanda: Oscar's having
a busy day.
1103
00:48:20,931 --> 00:48:24,341
Oh, cool dude.
Sunnies, shorts and wellies.
1104
00:48:25,137 --> 00:48:26,517
Shorts and wellies!
1105
00:48:27,689 --> 00:48:28,789
Amanda: Fab-o.
1106
00:48:33,827 --> 00:48:35,657
- How did I die?
1107
00:48:35,758 --> 00:48:37,718
That's a great place to stop.
1108
00:48:37,827 --> 00:48:39,277
- No, Dad.
- Yeah, it's time to go up.
1109
00:48:39,379 --> 00:48:40,659
- No, Dad!
1110
00:48:43,931 --> 00:48:46,341
- You can read some more
of these books, if you like.
1111
00:48:47,586 --> 00:48:49,026
- Read them?
- Yeah.
1112
00:48:50,655 --> 00:48:53,475
- I saw how much all of them
1113
00:48:53,586 --> 00:48:56,546
were willing
to put themselves through
1114
00:48:56,655 --> 00:48:57,995
to make it work.
1115
00:48:59,379 --> 00:49:00,999
I think, in the end...
1116
00:49:03,620 --> 00:49:06,100
..for that family,
that family made the decision
1117
00:49:06,206 --> 00:49:07,656
that they needed to make.
1118
00:49:08,482 --> 00:49:10,592
Amanda: Oliver.
- Yeah?
1119
00:49:10,689 --> 00:49:12,209
Amanda: What are you doing?
1120
00:49:12,310 --> 00:49:14,000
Rob: Oli, Oli, Oli!
1121
00:49:15,275 --> 00:49:17,615
Louis narrates: Love is hard...
1122
00:49:17,724 --> 00:49:19,974
..and subject to all different
kinds of strains
1123
00:49:20,068 --> 00:49:22,588
to do with people changing.
1124
00:49:24,758 --> 00:49:26,208
Or people succumbing
1125
00:49:26,310 --> 00:49:29,100
to serious diseases
like dementia...
1126
00:49:29,206 --> 00:49:31,096
- You guys want some floss
or something?
1127
00:49:31,206 --> 00:49:33,516
- I've got my own, thanks.
- OK.
1128
00:49:35,482 --> 00:49:37,342
Louis narrates: ..or their
behaviour just being impossible.
1129
00:49:38,551 --> 00:49:39,831
- You haven't seen Solvi
in a few weeks.
1130
00:49:39,931 --> 00:49:41,451
- Hi, Solvi!
1131
00:49:41,551 --> 00:49:42,481
Do you remember...?
1132
00:49:42,586 --> 00:49:44,096
Louis narrates:
And it's in the nature of love
1133
00:49:44,206 --> 00:49:46,896
that because of
how powerful it is,
1134
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,410
that it brings risk with it...
1135
00:49:51,413 --> 00:49:53,173
..the risk that it will end.
1136
00:49:53,275 --> 00:49:54,825
I'm just smiling at you.
1137
00:49:54,931 --> 00:49:56,661
- Why?
- I don't know.
1138
00:49:58,482 --> 00:50:00,342
Louis narrates:
But you don't stop loving
1139
00:50:00,448 --> 00:50:01,718
because of the risk.
1140
00:50:01,827 --> 00:50:05,377
In fact, the risk is what
makes love so precious...
1141
00:50:05,482 --> 00:50:07,382
"They were playing Chip's
new game,
1142
00:50:07,482 --> 00:50:09,722
"secret of the sands."
1143
00:50:09,827 --> 00:50:11,237
Love you. [kisses]
1144
00:50:11,344 --> 00:50:13,794
- Goodnight!
- Goodnight.
1145
00:50:13,896 --> 00:50:14,856
Louis narrates:
..which makes it
1146
00:50:14,965 --> 00:50:16,065
all the more important
1147
00:50:16,172 --> 00:50:19,382
that you value every minute
that you have it.
1148
00:50:19,482 --> 00:50:22,482
Captioned by Ai-Media
ai-media.tv
79512
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