All language subtitles for Louis.Theroux.Life.on.the.Edge.S01E04.WEBRip.x264-ION10.English

af Afrikaans
ak Akan
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bem Bemba
bn Bengali
bh Bihari
bs Bosnian
br Breton
bg Bulgarian
km Cambodian
ca Catalan
chr Cherokee
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
ee Ewe
fo Faroese
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gaa Ga
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gn Guarani
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ia Interlingua
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
rw Kinyarwanda
rn Kirundi
kg Kongo
ko Korean
kri Krio (Sierra Leone)
ku Kurdish
ckb Kurdish (Soranî)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Laothian
la Latin
lv Latvian
ln Lingala
lt Lithuanian
loz Lozi
lg Luganda
ach Luo
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mfe Mauritian Creole
mo Moldavian
mn Mongolian
sr-ME Montenegrin
ne Nepali
pcm Nigerian Pidgin
nso Northern Sotho
no Norwegian
nn Norwegian (Nynorsk)
oc Occitan
or Oriya
om Oromo
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt-BR Portuguese (Brazil)
pt-PT Portuguese (Portugal)
pa Punjabi
qu Quechua
ro Romanian
rm Romansh
nyn Runyakitara
ru Russian
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
sh Serbo-Croatian
st Sesotho
tn Setswana
crs Seychellois Creole
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhalese
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish
es-419 Spanish (Latin American)
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
tt Tatar
te Telugu
th Thai
ti Tigrinya
to Tonga
lua Tshiluba
tum Tumbuka
tr Turkish
tk Turkmen
tw Twi
ug Uighur
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
wo Wolof
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:05,862 --> 00:00:07,482 - Hello. - Hi. I'm Louis. 2 00:00:07,586 --> 00:00:08,826 I'm Louis. 3 00:00:08,931 --> 00:00:11,721 Oh, I can't shake your hand. [laughter] 4 00:00:11,827 --> 00:00:12,927 Louis narrates: For 25 years, 5 00:00:13,034 --> 00:00:15,034 I've been making programmes about life 6 00:00:15,137 --> 00:00:16,547 in all its strangeness... 7 00:00:16,655 --> 00:00:18,685 Stand by. 8 00:00:18,793 --> 00:00:21,793 Information to follow. 9 00:00:21,896 --> 00:00:24,096 Louis narrates: ..mystery... - Who are you? 10 00:00:24,206 --> 00:00:26,996 - I'm Louis. - Who's Louis? 11 00:00:27,103 --> 00:00:28,723 Louis narrates: ..and angst... 12 00:00:28,827 --> 00:00:30,997 You OK, Nikki? 13 00:00:31,103 --> 00:00:32,413 Louis narrates: Trying to make connections 14 00:00:32,517 --> 00:00:35,277 with people who are, in different ways, 15 00:00:35,379 --> 00:00:36,589 on the edge. 16 00:00:36,689 --> 00:00:40,069 Not all of us want to be like this. 17 00:00:41,517 --> 00:00:43,757 Louis narrates: Recently, I decided to take a pause, 18 00:00:43,862 --> 00:00:45,932 and trawl through my old shows, 19 00:00:46,034 --> 00:00:48,724 looking again at some stories that stayed with me... 20 00:00:48,827 --> 00:00:50,897 Yeah, this has stuff in it. 21 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,340 Louis narrates: And to reach out to those I'd featured... 22 00:00:53,448 --> 00:00:56,238 Woman on phone: Look at you, Mr Beard and Moustache! 23 00:00:56,344 --> 00:00:57,934 I know. Don't I look distinguished? 24 00:00:58,034 --> 00:00:59,864 Louis narrates: ..to see how their lives have changed. 25 00:00:59,965 --> 00:01:01,335 You've been married six times. 26 00:01:01,448 --> 00:01:02,968 Henry VIII was married six times, 27 00:01:03,068 --> 00:01:04,588 so it's not unprecedented. 28 00:01:04,689 --> 00:01:05,929 [laughs] 29 00:01:06,034 --> 00:01:07,454 Hey. How you doing? 30 00:01:07,551 --> 00:01:09,691 - Good. How are you? - Good. 31 00:01:09,793 --> 00:01:12,003 Louis narrates: From all the hours of programmes, 32 00:01:12,103 --> 00:01:14,003 I've teased out a handful of themes... 33 00:01:14,103 --> 00:01:16,103 - This is gonna be the start 34 00:01:16,206 --> 00:01:18,616 of the second American Civil War! 35 00:01:18,724 --> 00:01:21,314 White revolution! 36 00:01:21,413 --> 00:01:23,593 - Why did you run? - Because they shoot anybody, 37 00:01:23,689 --> 00:01:24,899 and they don't care who it is. 38 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:25,900 Point blank range, 39 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:27,340 they'll pull a gun out and shoot you. 40 00:01:27,448 --> 00:01:29,518 Louis narrates: ..all of which, in different ways, 41 00:01:29,620 --> 00:01:32,310 go to the heart of what it means to be human. 42 00:01:32,413 --> 00:01:34,283 [man yells in rage] - You OK? 43 00:01:34,379 --> 00:01:35,899 It seems like every day, 44 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,210 I get delivered from something else 45 00:01:38,310 --> 00:01:39,720 that I didn't even know I had. 46 00:01:39,827 --> 00:01:41,307 Louis narrates: ..trying to figure out 47 00:01:41,413 --> 00:01:42,863 what I've learned about life, 48 00:01:42,965 --> 00:01:44,855 and about myself. 49 00:01:44,965 --> 00:01:47,825 What connection is there between a birth mum and a child? 50 00:01:47,931 --> 00:01:49,901 [sobbing] 51 00:01:50,724 --> 00:01:53,034 You don't feel loved by Rob? 52 00:01:53,137 --> 00:01:55,027 - No, not particularly. 53 00:01:55,137 --> 00:01:56,967 I feel like I'm a burden. 54 00:02:12,137 --> 00:02:13,617 It's wakey-wakey time. 55 00:02:13,724 --> 00:02:15,904 - No. 56 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,620 No, pants first, remember? 57 00:02:17,724 --> 00:02:20,524 Pants first. 58 00:02:20,620 --> 00:02:22,210 Louis narrates: In a way, I see family 59 00:02:22,310 --> 00:02:24,170 as the deepest of all subjects. 60 00:02:26,724 --> 00:02:28,524 The most intimate stories, 61 00:02:28,620 --> 00:02:30,340 because you see people at home, 62 00:02:30,448 --> 00:02:33,068 in settings that are as revealing 63 00:02:33,172 --> 00:02:34,762 as you could imagine. 64 00:02:36,758 --> 00:02:37,688 Over the years, 65 00:02:37,793 --> 00:02:39,863 family was obviously always in the background 66 00:02:39,965 --> 00:02:42,585 to all the stories I did in some way... 67 00:02:42,689 --> 00:02:47,619 ..but it didn't become the foreground until 2006... 68 00:02:47,724 --> 00:02:51,214 ..when I did the first story I ever did on a family. 69 00:02:51,310 --> 00:02:54,210 I mean, a family of a very strange sort, 70 00:02:54,310 --> 00:02:56,660 a family of religious zealots, 71 00:02:56,758 --> 00:02:59,098 extremists if you like, in Kansas. 72 00:03:00,482 --> 00:03:02,342 That's quite nice. 73 00:03:02,448 --> 00:03:04,338 It says, "Rules that you should obey, 74 00:03:04,448 --> 00:03:07,548 "from Noah Phelps-Roper to Louis." 75 00:03:07,655 --> 00:03:10,475 Noah, who would have been probably seven... 76 00:03:11,551 --> 00:03:13,831 ..six, seven years old, 77 00:03:13,931 --> 00:03:17,241 from the Phelps family, Westboro Baptist church - 78 00:03:17,344 --> 00:03:20,904 he made me this little booklet on how to conduct my life. 79 00:03:22,172 --> 00:03:24,902 "Obey, obey, don't kill people. 80 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,970 "Don't marry two people. 81 00:03:27,068 --> 00:03:29,308 "Don't go to a fag church. 82 00:03:29,413 --> 00:03:32,313 "Don't join the army or you will die." 83 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,720 I had known about the Westboro Baptist Church 84 00:03:37,827 --> 00:03:40,277 going back years. 85 00:03:40,379 --> 00:03:43,169 It was founded by a man called Pastor Fred Phelps. 86 00:03:43,275 --> 00:03:44,855 They were famous for their pickets 87 00:03:44,965 --> 00:03:45,965 where they would wave 88 00:03:46,068 --> 00:03:49,138 very offensive homophobic placards. 89 00:03:49,241 --> 00:03:51,901 And then, they began picketing the funerals of soldiers 90 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,380 killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. 91 00:03:53,482 --> 00:03:55,002 [bell tolls, protesters sing] 92 00:03:55,103 --> 00:03:57,343 And the idea was that the soldiers' deaths 93 00:03:57,448 --> 00:03:59,068 were punishment 94 00:03:59,172 --> 00:04:02,522 for America's tolerance of homosexuality. 95 00:04:02,620 --> 00:04:04,070 And so, based on that, 96 00:04:04,172 --> 00:04:06,692 we thought, "Maybe there's a story here." 97 00:04:06,793 --> 00:04:09,763 - ♪ I'm ashamed to be an American ♪ 98 00:04:09,862 --> 00:04:12,412 ♪ Where the fags can freely roam ♪ 99 00:04:12,517 --> 00:04:15,617 ♪ They spread their filth around this land ♪ 100 00:04:15,724 --> 00:04:18,034 ♪ Every pervert calls it home 101 00:04:18,137 --> 00:04:25,137 ♪ God hates the USA. 102 00:04:27,689 --> 00:04:28,929 [doorbell rings] 103 00:04:29,689 --> 00:04:30,689 - Hi. - Hi, there. 104 00:04:30,793 --> 00:04:31,833 - You must be Shirley. - Yes. 105 00:04:31,931 --> 00:04:32,831 - I'm Louis. - Hi, Louis. 106 00:04:32,931 --> 00:04:34,101 How do you do? 107 00:04:35,172 --> 00:04:37,212 So, these are your signs. 108 00:04:37,310 --> 00:04:40,310 You've got "God hates fags" here. 109 00:04:40,413 --> 00:04:41,833 - Uh-huh, and God hates you. 110 00:04:41,931 --> 00:04:43,311 Just don't think of fags 111 00:04:43,413 --> 00:04:46,143 as just those guys who are taking it up the tail pipe. 112 00:04:46,241 --> 00:04:47,141 Think of it as people 113 00:04:47,241 --> 00:04:50,901 who are involved in some perverted sex act, 114 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,860 and I am talking about anything other than 115 00:04:52,965 --> 00:04:57,065 one man, one woman in their marriage bed. 116 00:04:58,068 --> 00:04:59,208 - Hi, guys. - Hi. 117 00:04:59,310 --> 00:05:00,340 - Hey. - Hi. 118 00:05:00,448 --> 00:05:01,718 - This is Gabriel. 119 00:05:01,827 --> 00:05:03,097 - How do you do? 120 00:05:03,896 --> 00:05:04,826 Go put your stuff away. 121 00:05:04,931 --> 00:05:06,481 - And Grace. This is Grace. - How do you do? 122 00:05:06,586 --> 00:05:07,476 - Hi. - Come on, guys. 123 00:05:07,586 --> 00:05:08,856 Let's get out of here, let's bail. 124 00:05:11,551 --> 00:05:12,901 This is our corner. 125 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,340 Come on, little boys. 126 00:05:14,448 --> 00:05:16,478 Zack, you hop in in case he wants you to stay. 127 00:05:16,586 --> 00:05:17,926 - So, um... - Zack, call me. 128 00:05:18,034 --> 00:05:19,624 ..I'm gonna keep a little bit of a distance because I'm not 129 00:05:19,724 --> 00:05:20,934 - part of the picket. - That's OK. 130 00:05:21,034 --> 00:05:23,414 Louis: There were about 70 members in the church, 131 00:05:23,517 --> 00:05:26,027 almost all from one family. 132 00:05:26,137 --> 00:05:28,027 And they believed that by going on pickets 133 00:05:28,137 --> 00:05:29,757 and hurling abuse, 134 00:05:29,862 --> 00:05:33,032 they thought that was the most Christian thing they could do. 135 00:05:34,241 --> 00:05:38,661 Women: America is doomed! 136 00:05:38,758 --> 00:05:40,588 - This is shameful. 137 00:05:40,689 --> 00:05:43,029 Right down shameful. 138 00:05:43,137 --> 00:05:45,687 You got little kids like this... 139 00:05:45,793 --> 00:05:50,073 - You obviously raised your brat for the devil, 140 00:05:50,172 --> 00:05:52,902 your big bratness-brat for the devil. 141 00:05:54,172 --> 00:05:55,552 - What was he talking about? - He's talking about, 142 00:05:55,655 --> 00:05:57,785 [mockingly] "I don't agree with fags 143 00:05:57,896 --> 00:05:59,716 "but, you know, que sera sera." 144 00:05:59,827 --> 00:06:01,997 - Fuck you! - You think you can fix this? 145 00:06:02,103 --> 00:06:04,663 With that? You think you're gonna change God? 146 00:06:04,758 --> 00:06:07,788 You know why you're there, you fucking bitch? 147 00:06:07,896 --> 00:06:10,616 Because you are a rebellious brat, 148 00:06:10,724 --> 00:06:12,664 that's why! 149 00:06:17,137 --> 00:06:19,307 Louis: I began spending time with this family, 150 00:06:19,413 --> 00:06:22,413 trying to understand it. 151 00:06:22,517 --> 00:06:23,927 You know, they would go to normal schools 152 00:06:24,034 --> 00:06:25,214 and go to normal jobs, 153 00:06:25,310 --> 00:06:27,970 but they weren't allowed to fraternise or socialise. 154 00:06:28,068 --> 00:06:30,028 They weren't allowed to mix. 155 00:06:30,137 --> 00:06:33,617 They couldn't go on dates, have coffees un-chaperoned, 156 00:06:33,724 --> 00:06:35,344 and realistically, 157 00:06:35,448 --> 00:06:37,278 they knew that there was a high likelihood 158 00:06:37,379 --> 00:06:39,209 they'd never be married, never have kids, 159 00:06:39,310 --> 00:06:41,070 and I was curious about that. 160 00:06:42,517 --> 00:06:43,587 - Hi. - How are you doing? 161 00:06:43,689 --> 00:06:45,069 - Good. - Can we come in? 162 00:06:45,172 --> 00:06:46,412 Uh-huh. 163 00:06:46,517 --> 00:06:49,477 It's not sinful to get married, is it? 164 00:06:49,586 --> 00:06:52,406 And if you wanted to do that, then how do you do that? 165 00:06:52,517 --> 00:06:53,407 Well, first of all, 166 00:06:53,517 --> 00:06:54,967 I don't think that's ever gonna happen. 167 00:06:55,068 --> 00:06:56,618 - Why wouldn't that happen? - Are you kidding me? 168 00:06:56,724 --> 00:06:58,454 Are you kidding me? 169 00:06:58,551 --> 00:07:01,521 Because I'm Jael Phelps and I serve God, that's why. 170 00:07:02,551 --> 00:07:03,831 That's why. 171 00:07:03,931 --> 00:07:05,791 And I'm not gonna seek after it. 172 00:07:06,896 --> 00:07:08,096 I'm not gonna dwell on it. 173 00:07:09,551 --> 00:07:12,481 It's not my interest, it's not my focus. 174 00:07:13,586 --> 00:07:15,446 I'm a dumb young girl, 175 00:07:15,551 --> 00:07:17,831 but I am not that dumb and goofy 176 00:07:17,931 --> 00:07:20,591 to go... [scoffs] It's so silly. 177 00:07:20,689 --> 00:07:21,859 I'm not gonna talk... 178 00:07:21,965 --> 00:07:24,965 I don't want to talk about it anymore, OK? 179 00:07:25,793 --> 00:07:27,863 So, I don't wanna go there. 180 00:07:30,689 --> 00:07:34,309 Louis: As with any kind of ultra controlled sect... 181 00:07:34,413 --> 00:07:36,763 ..you know, I was curious about the mechanisms of control, 182 00:07:36,862 --> 00:07:39,212 and also the mechanisms of self control, 183 00:07:39,310 --> 00:07:44,140 and the way in which the indoctrination took place... 184 00:07:44,241 --> 00:07:47,141 ..how it was passed down to the younger generation. 185 00:07:49,517 --> 00:07:51,167 How old are you, Shirley? 186 00:07:51,275 --> 00:07:52,685 - Seven. - Seven. 187 00:07:52,793 --> 00:07:54,623 Do you know what the sign means? 188 00:07:55,586 --> 00:07:57,066 No. 189 00:07:57,172 --> 00:07:58,102 - No? 190 00:07:58,206 --> 00:08:01,376 Maybe she's just out here making up numbers, you know, 191 00:08:01,482 --> 00:08:03,102 because she doesn't really get it. 192 00:08:03,206 --> 00:08:05,306 Noah, do you know what fag troops are? 193 00:08:06,241 --> 00:08:08,381 - Yeah. - What? 194 00:08:08,482 --> 00:08:11,522 It's this nation of these fags. 195 00:08:11,620 --> 00:08:13,620 It's a nation of fags, 196 00:08:13,724 --> 00:08:16,244 that's what fag troops means. 197 00:08:16,344 --> 00:08:17,794 - It is a nation of fags, that's right. 198 00:08:17,896 --> 00:08:19,376 Wait, wait, wait. You're not gonna let him 199 00:08:19,482 --> 00:08:21,242 - get away with that, are you? - Oh! It's fag soldiers! 200 00:08:21,344 --> 00:08:23,104 - No, I'm not gonna... - Fag soldiers! 201 00:08:23,206 --> 00:08:24,516 - OK, fag soldiers. 202 00:08:24,620 --> 00:08:27,830 I am sort of glad that they don't understand it better. 203 00:08:27,931 --> 00:08:28,971 - Well, you understand... 204 00:08:29,068 --> 00:08:32,758 Noah, do you know what else you could be besides a fag 205 00:08:32,862 --> 00:08:36,032 to be in trouble with God and be included in that sign? 206 00:08:37,586 --> 00:08:38,616 Erm... 207 00:08:39,758 --> 00:08:41,758 Umm, soldiers and... 208 00:08:41,862 --> 00:08:42,932 - But what are you? 209 00:08:43,034 --> 00:08:45,864 If you're not a practising fag, what are you? 210 00:08:45,965 --> 00:08:48,235 What if you support fags, what does that make you? 211 00:08:49,275 --> 00:08:51,025 - You're a dyke. - [laughs] 212 00:08:52,034 --> 00:08:53,344 You could say you're... 213 00:08:53,448 --> 00:08:55,168 what you're really doing is grooming him 214 00:08:55,275 --> 00:08:56,685 into the weird behaviour 215 00:08:56,793 --> 00:08:58,313 that is a characteristic of your group. 216 00:08:58,413 --> 00:09:00,243 I mean, if you want to explain your moral outlook to him, 217 00:09:00,344 --> 00:09:01,624 you could do that in a classroom. 218 00:09:01,724 --> 00:09:05,794 - Are you calling our service to our God 'weird behaviour'? 219 00:09:05,896 --> 00:09:07,686 - Is that what you just did? - Yes. 220 00:09:07,793 --> 00:09:10,483 You don't get to call our service to God weird, 221 00:09:10,586 --> 00:09:12,826 and thereby make it so. 222 00:09:14,137 --> 00:09:15,997 Your statement doesn't make it right, 223 00:09:16,103 --> 00:09:17,973 doesn't make it a fact. 224 00:09:18,068 --> 00:09:19,548 - The world calls it weird. 225 00:09:19,655 --> 00:09:20,785 - I don't care what the... 226 00:09:20,896 --> 00:09:22,446 Well, yes, and the world hates us. 227 00:09:22,551 --> 00:09:23,591 Hello? 228 00:09:26,310 --> 00:09:28,550 Louis narrates: What struck me was that these were people 229 00:09:28,655 --> 00:09:32,135 who, if raised in other situations elsewhere, 230 00:09:32,241 --> 00:09:35,411 would have been normal, productive people, 231 00:09:35,517 --> 00:09:36,857 nice people, 232 00:09:36,965 --> 00:09:40,895 but they were carrying on this process of indoctrination 233 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,970 based on the distorted vision of this angry old man, 234 00:09:45,068 --> 00:09:46,658 Pastor Fred Phelps. 235 00:09:48,206 --> 00:09:49,306 - America's doomed. 236 00:09:50,551 --> 00:09:52,521 It's almost 18 months now 237 00:09:52,620 --> 00:09:54,720 and the siege has got people eating their babies... 238 00:09:57,344 --> 00:09:59,764 ..and their small children, and each other! 239 00:09:59,862 --> 00:10:02,342 You're gonna eat your babies! 240 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,970 And any preacher preaching it any other way 241 00:10:06,068 --> 00:10:08,928 is a lying, hell-bound false prophet. 242 00:10:12,517 --> 00:10:14,447 Louis Theroux, a demon-possessed... 243 00:10:15,482 --> 00:10:17,862 ..BBC documentary maker. 244 00:10:18,827 --> 00:10:21,687 Woe unto Louis Theroux. 245 00:10:21,793 --> 00:10:24,283 God's woe means he's going to hell. 246 00:10:25,586 --> 00:10:27,686 Louis: Gramps, the old patriarch, 247 00:10:27,793 --> 00:10:31,103 gave a sermon, which he released also as a press release. 248 00:10:31,206 --> 00:10:32,716 "Louis Theroux thinks 249 00:10:32,827 --> 00:10:35,337 "he has cutesy little endearing qualities 250 00:10:35,448 --> 00:10:37,338 "that will make him rich - 251 00:10:37,448 --> 00:10:42,448 "feigned humility, self effacing naiveté on camera, 252 00:10:42,551 --> 00:10:44,521 "innocent-sounding questions, 253 00:10:44,620 --> 00:10:50,240 "wide-eyed enthusiasm and pretended befuddlement. 254 00:10:50,344 --> 00:10:52,004 "All gimmickry. 255 00:10:52,103 --> 00:10:56,623 "A shrewd, satanic manipulator for sin." 256 00:10:57,620 --> 00:10:58,830 That's good stuff. 257 00:10:58,931 --> 00:11:01,241 I mean, he kind of nails it. 258 00:11:01,344 --> 00:11:02,244 [chuckles] 259 00:11:02,344 --> 00:11:04,594 I didn't think he was paying that much attention to me. 260 00:11:08,034 --> 00:11:10,414 I think what you see in the Westboro story 261 00:11:10,517 --> 00:11:14,717 is the extremes of what a family does to itself. 262 00:11:14,827 --> 00:11:17,207 Pastor: ..England and America, the rest of this evil world... 263 00:11:17,310 --> 00:11:21,030 Louis: The extraordinary pain that it inflicts on its members, 264 00:11:21,137 --> 00:11:22,687 but which the members put up with 265 00:11:22,793 --> 00:11:24,793 because of the love that they experience. 266 00:11:24,896 --> 00:11:26,136 Pastor: ..no longer keeps America safe... 267 00:11:26,241 --> 00:11:27,451 - In the case of Westboro, 268 00:11:27,551 --> 00:11:30,381 the family is more or less torturing itself... 269 00:11:31,620 --> 00:11:33,930 ..and then, there comes a breaking point. 270 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,240 Even when I was there, 271 00:11:37,344 --> 00:11:39,174 people talked about people who'd left, 272 00:11:39,275 --> 00:11:41,305 family members who had gone their own way. 273 00:11:43,068 --> 00:11:44,068 And then, after I left, 274 00:11:44,172 --> 00:11:45,592 Megan Phelps-Roper, 275 00:11:45,689 --> 00:11:48,859 Shirley's daughter and right-hand person, left. 276 00:11:48,965 --> 00:11:50,655 99.9% of Americans... 277 00:11:50,758 --> 00:11:54,898 - She also made it her mission to speak out... 278 00:11:55,896 --> 00:11:57,276 ..from a loving place 279 00:11:57,379 --> 00:11:59,409 about what happens inside the church, 280 00:11:59,517 --> 00:12:00,967 in the hope of actually 281 00:12:01,068 --> 00:12:03,828 getting more people to leave. 282 00:12:03,931 --> 00:12:06,831 - The end of this spiral of rage and blame, 283 00:12:06,931 --> 00:12:08,451 begins with one person 284 00:12:08,551 --> 00:12:13,381 who refuses to indulge these destructive, seductive impulses. 285 00:12:13,482 --> 00:12:16,382 We just have to decide that it's going to start with us. 286 00:12:18,586 --> 00:12:19,616 Louis narrates: When she left, 287 00:12:19,724 --> 00:12:21,554 Megan got in touch with me. 288 00:12:22,379 --> 00:12:23,659 Hello. 289 00:12:23,758 --> 00:12:25,068 Louis narrates: We stayed in touch... 290 00:12:25,172 --> 00:12:26,242 - Hey. Louis narrates: ..emailing 291 00:12:26,344 --> 00:12:29,384 back and forth intermittently and we became friends. 292 00:12:29,482 --> 00:12:32,072 How are you doing, anyway? 293 00:12:32,172 --> 00:12:34,072 - I'm good. I'm finding the bright side, 294 00:12:34,172 --> 00:12:36,102 - and it's nice. - That's great. 295 00:12:36,206 --> 00:12:37,546 Louis narrates: She's been completely cut off 296 00:12:37,655 --> 00:12:39,855 from her family for years now, 297 00:12:39,965 --> 00:12:42,585 and is not allowed under any circumstances 298 00:12:42,689 --> 00:12:44,209 to visit her Mum. 299 00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:47,210 It changes over time, you know, 300 00:12:47,310 --> 00:12:50,660 the way that the pain feels. 301 00:12:51,344 --> 00:12:52,834 But it doesn't... 302 00:12:52,931 --> 00:12:55,451 It changes because I'm changing, you know, 303 00:12:55,551 --> 00:12:56,971 I'm getting older. 304 00:12:57,068 --> 00:12:58,238 I now am a mom, 305 00:12:58,344 --> 00:13:01,594 and so I have these memories of my mom 306 00:13:01,689 --> 00:13:03,379 coming up all the time now, 307 00:13:03,482 --> 00:13:05,592 and sometimes it'll make me happy, 308 00:13:05,689 --> 00:13:07,279 and sometimes it'll make me cry, 309 00:13:07,379 --> 00:13:09,969 but, like, it's...it's... 310 00:13:10,068 --> 00:13:12,308 She's my mom. It never goes away. 311 00:13:12,413 --> 00:13:14,453 It's not the past. 312 00:13:14,551 --> 00:13:17,551 It's now, and that's incredibly painful, 313 00:13:17,655 --> 00:13:19,135 no matter how long it's been. 314 00:13:25,758 --> 00:13:28,068 Louis: Families come under pressure. 315 00:13:28,172 --> 00:13:30,482 It's often to do with the intolerable demands 316 00:13:30,586 --> 00:13:32,656 made by family members. 317 00:13:32,758 --> 00:13:37,448 Sometimes, as with Westboro, due to indoctrination... 318 00:13:37,551 --> 00:13:39,861 ..but also, in fact, more often, 319 00:13:39,965 --> 00:13:43,095 because of illness, because of disease, 320 00:13:43,206 --> 00:13:45,066 because of mental decline. 321 00:13:48,827 --> 00:13:53,927 Around 2011, I went through a kind of crisis. 322 00:13:54,034 --> 00:13:56,864 I felt like I'd run out of stories I was interested in. 323 00:13:56,965 --> 00:13:58,995 I don't know, I just felt I was in danger 324 00:13:59,103 --> 00:14:02,073 of repeating myself, of doing re-treads, 325 00:14:02,172 --> 00:14:06,142 And the only story that we had...on the slate, 326 00:14:06,241 --> 00:14:07,591 that I was excited about, 327 00:14:07,689 --> 00:14:10,619 that felt new and different and interesting to me... 328 00:14:10,724 --> 00:14:14,074 ..was about people with dementia. 329 00:14:20,517 --> 00:14:21,787 Phoenix, Arizona, 330 00:14:21,896 --> 00:14:24,476 is a population centre of the elderly 331 00:14:24,586 --> 00:14:27,066 and, therefore, of dementia. 332 00:14:27,172 --> 00:14:29,382 And also a centre for pioneering techniques 333 00:14:29,482 --> 00:14:32,722 in coping with dementia and its symptoms... 334 00:14:32,827 --> 00:14:34,787 ..so we decided to base ourselves there, 335 00:14:34,896 --> 00:14:37,516 at a residential home called Beatitudes. 336 00:14:41,034 --> 00:14:43,524 One of the men there was called Gary Gilliam. 337 00:14:43,620 --> 00:14:46,660 He had vascular dementia brought on by a heart attack. 338 00:14:46,758 --> 00:14:48,338 This is a hard place to get out. 339 00:14:48,448 --> 00:14:50,968 Louis narrates: Big personality, very humorous, 340 00:14:51,068 --> 00:14:53,618 beloved by all the other residents. 341 00:14:53,724 --> 00:14:56,214 - I'd like to know where the in hell...? 342 00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:59,240 - Hmm. - You OK? 343 00:15:00,034 --> 00:15:01,174 Well, I'm worried. 344 00:15:01,275 --> 00:15:03,785 I'm just gonna walk up here and see if I can't... 345 00:15:04,758 --> 00:15:06,448 What are you worried about? 346 00:15:06,551 --> 00:15:07,481 What am I worried about? 347 00:15:07,586 --> 00:15:08,896 There's nothing to worry about. 348 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,140 Well, guys get out and get lost. 349 00:15:14,137 --> 00:15:16,477 Louis: What sort of things do you enjoy doing here? 350 00:15:16,586 --> 00:15:17,926 How do you keep busy? 351 00:15:18,034 --> 00:15:20,834 - This is my workplace. - Doing? 352 00:15:20,931 --> 00:15:23,591 Dentistry, or working on something dental, 353 00:15:23,689 --> 00:15:25,619 or doing, you know, whatever. 354 00:15:25,724 --> 00:15:28,144 Whatever they want to put me to, I don't care. 355 00:15:28,241 --> 00:15:30,451 It's not really a medical building 356 00:15:30,551 --> 00:15:31,521 or something like that, 357 00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:33,450 but here we are. 358 00:15:33,551 --> 00:15:34,621 I ain't never leaving. 359 00:15:34,724 --> 00:15:36,724 it's kind of strange that way. 360 00:15:38,758 --> 00:15:41,068 Does he know where he is? 361 00:15:41,172 --> 00:15:42,762 - He does know. He's, um... 362 00:15:42,862 --> 00:15:44,002 - He seems to think he's involved 363 00:15:44,103 --> 00:15:45,623 in a dental practice here. 364 00:15:45,724 --> 00:15:47,934 I know, yeah, and one of the ways we redirect him 365 00:15:48,034 --> 00:15:50,554 is to have him examine our teeth. 366 00:15:50,655 --> 00:15:53,685 - When you say... redirect means what? 367 00:15:53,793 --> 00:15:56,003 - If he's on a mission to go outside, 368 00:15:56,103 --> 00:15:58,793 or if he's just having one of those moments, 369 00:15:58,896 --> 00:16:01,586 that he's irritable, you can easily redirect him by saying, 370 00:16:01,689 --> 00:16:04,069 "Hey, Dr Gary, I have a problem with my tooth. 371 00:16:04,172 --> 00:16:06,762 "Can you look inside my mouth?" And he will. 372 00:16:06,862 --> 00:16:08,482 - You want to take a walk with me? 373 00:16:08,586 --> 00:16:10,096 - Sure, I'll walk with you. 374 00:16:10,206 --> 00:16:13,276 See, now, they change these things around 375 00:16:13,379 --> 00:16:14,969 every other week. 376 00:16:15,068 --> 00:16:16,658 "Push until alarm sounds. 377 00:16:16,758 --> 00:16:18,928 "Door can be opened in 15 seconds." 378 00:16:19,034 --> 00:16:21,174 That's a siren going off for 15 seconds 379 00:16:21,275 --> 00:16:23,335 through this building. You can't use that. 380 00:16:23,448 --> 00:16:25,308 - No. - That's ridiculous. 381 00:16:25,413 --> 00:16:26,623 No. 382 00:16:26,724 --> 00:16:29,664 So, you know, what can I do? I'm screwed. 383 00:16:29,758 --> 00:16:31,658 Someone told me you used to be a dentist? 384 00:16:31,758 --> 00:16:33,168 - I am a dentist. - Is that true? 385 00:16:33,275 --> 00:16:35,405 I guess once a dentist, always a dentist, you know? 386 00:16:35,517 --> 00:16:36,787 It's like being born... 387 00:16:38,517 --> 00:16:39,827 ..an Indian or something, you know, 388 00:16:39,931 --> 00:16:41,241 you're always gonna be an Indian. 389 00:16:41,344 --> 00:16:43,664 Would you take a quick look at my teeth? 390 00:16:43,758 --> 00:16:44,788 - Yes, sir. I would. 391 00:16:44,896 --> 00:16:46,276 - They're not very clean, though. 392 00:16:46,379 --> 00:16:47,689 Oh, I know. 393 00:16:47,793 --> 00:16:49,483 - You're a Brit, aren't you? - Yeah. 394 00:16:49,586 --> 00:16:51,376 Well, you guys don't clean your teeth like we do. 395 00:16:51,482 --> 00:16:52,522 I know. 396 00:16:54,172 --> 00:16:55,172 Bite down, please. 397 00:16:56,172 --> 00:16:57,792 You got good occlusion. 398 00:16:59,275 --> 00:17:01,405 You know, you're in cross bite back there. 399 00:17:01,517 --> 00:17:02,757 - Uh-oh. - Yeah. 400 00:17:02,862 --> 00:17:04,282 I wouldn't do anything about it 401 00:17:04,379 --> 00:17:06,099 'cause it's not gonna hurt you now. 402 00:17:15,241 --> 00:17:17,451 - How well do you feel you know Dawn? 403 00:17:17,551 --> 00:17:19,101 - Know who? - Dawn. 404 00:17:19,206 --> 00:17:22,066 Oh, do I know you? 405 00:17:22,172 --> 00:17:23,862 Well, I haven't known you very much, 406 00:17:23,965 --> 00:17:26,275 because if I would, I'd remember you forever. 407 00:17:26,379 --> 00:17:28,859 - Aww. - 'Cause you're a pretty lady. 408 00:17:28,965 --> 00:17:30,655 You remember the pretty ladies, huh? 409 00:17:30,758 --> 00:17:32,138 - I try to. - Right. 410 00:17:32,241 --> 00:17:33,901 I think I'm losing my grasp. 411 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,790 He tells me that every day. It's good for my ego. 412 00:17:36,896 --> 00:17:38,446 [chuckles] 413 00:17:39,482 --> 00:17:40,592 And are you married? 414 00:17:40,689 --> 00:17:42,209 - No, sir. - No. 415 00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:45,240 Nobody would have me. I had a...you know... 416 00:17:45,344 --> 00:17:47,144 I had a sign out in the yard for a long time. 417 00:17:47,241 --> 00:17:48,451 It got to be embarrassing. 418 00:17:48,551 --> 00:17:50,381 - What about Carla? - Carla? 419 00:17:50,482 --> 00:17:52,172 That's the meanest little booger in the world 420 00:17:52,275 --> 00:17:54,065 - but I just love her. - Who's Carla? 421 00:17:54,172 --> 00:17:56,412 She's a little gal about this tall, isn't she? 422 00:17:56,517 --> 00:17:59,827 - And she came to work for me. - Right, exactly. 423 00:17:59,931 --> 00:18:01,831 And then she ended up running my office. 424 00:18:01,931 --> 00:18:03,721 - Mm-hm. - Did an excellent job of it. 425 00:18:03,827 --> 00:18:05,237 - She did. - She's really a nice person. 426 00:18:05,344 --> 00:18:06,414 - She is. - I think a lot of her. 427 00:18:06,517 --> 00:18:07,717 - Yes. 428 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,070 Louis narrates: Carla was still married to him, 429 00:18:16,172 --> 00:18:19,342 but he no longer recognised her as his wife. 430 00:18:23,586 --> 00:18:27,206 - There's Gary with his dogs. He just loves his dogs. 431 00:18:27,310 --> 00:18:29,380 - What was the Gary of old like? 432 00:18:29,482 --> 00:18:31,792 - Definitely an outdoorsman. 433 00:18:31,896 --> 00:18:35,616 Highly intelligent, very interested in everything. 434 00:18:35,724 --> 00:18:37,724 And remembered things verbatim. 435 00:18:37,827 --> 00:18:39,687 - Did he? Good memory. 436 00:18:39,793 --> 00:18:42,903 Has he gone back to a particular point in time? 437 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,030 - I think he's more in his 20s, early 30s. 438 00:18:46,137 --> 00:18:47,547 I'm not even his spouse, 439 00:18:47,655 --> 00:18:48,685 because in his mind, 440 00:18:48,793 --> 00:18:50,453 he would have never gotten married. 441 00:18:50,551 --> 00:18:53,031 In terms of your relationship with Gary now, 442 00:18:53,137 --> 00:18:54,997 how fulfilling is that for you? 443 00:18:55,103 --> 00:18:58,523 When he's really sweet and just kind of caring, 444 00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:01,030 then, oh, yeah, I savour that, 445 00:19:01,137 --> 00:19:03,687 but it's very little, yeah. 446 00:19:08,827 --> 00:19:10,717 Hey, Gary. 447 00:19:10,827 --> 00:19:12,377 - I see you're getting photographed. 448 00:19:12,482 --> 00:19:14,032 - Yes. 449 00:19:14,137 --> 00:19:16,277 That means you'll be in jail in a month. 450 00:19:16,379 --> 00:19:17,659 - Yes. - OK. 451 00:19:17,758 --> 00:19:19,378 Yes, so... 452 00:19:19,482 --> 00:19:20,722 - Hi, Gary. - Hello. 453 00:19:20,827 --> 00:19:22,377 - You remember me? - Yes, I do. 454 00:19:22,482 --> 00:19:25,412 Louis narrates: Carla used to take Gary out for lunch, 455 00:19:25,517 --> 00:19:29,067 but it was more complicated than you might think. 456 00:19:29,172 --> 00:19:30,762 - Here are his two ladies, right there. 457 00:19:30,862 --> 00:19:33,932 Hi, Pat. Hi, Betty. How are you doing? 458 00:19:34,034 --> 00:19:36,344 - Oh, I'm doing just fine. 459 00:19:36,448 --> 00:19:37,898 - Good. 460 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,450 - I just need to ask you something quickly, Carla. 461 00:19:41,551 --> 00:19:46,341 You said these are two special friends of Gary's. 462 00:19:46,448 --> 00:19:49,478 Yes. Betty is very possessive, 463 00:19:49,586 --> 00:19:52,136 but Pat is more normal. 464 00:19:52,241 --> 00:19:53,451 Then don't bring them both. 465 00:19:53,551 --> 00:19:57,281 No, absolutely not. No, we're going with Pat. 466 00:19:57,379 --> 00:19:59,209 I don't understand why he's... 467 00:19:59,310 --> 00:20:01,030 You know, would it not be more normal 468 00:20:01,137 --> 00:20:02,787 for him to put his arm around you? 469 00:20:03,862 --> 00:20:06,282 Err, no, he's never been... 470 00:20:06,379 --> 00:20:08,789 physically very... I'm just his buddy. 471 00:20:11,206 --> 00:20:13,716 There's another lady called Betty. 472 00:20:14,965 --> 00:20:16,685 And did you say that there's more intimacy 473 00:20:16,793 --> 00:20:17,693 in that relationship? 474 00:20:17,793 --> 00:20:19,663 Well, she, I guess, 475 00:20:19,758 --> 00:20:21,308 has always taken her clothes off, 476 00:20:21,413 --> 00:20:22,933 and I've seen her a couple times, 477 00:20:23,034 --> 00:20:24,724 um and, um... 478 00:20:24,827 --> 00:20:26,897 I don't know what happens after that. 479 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,070 - Taking her clothes off? 480 00:20:28,172 --> 00:20:29,592 In his room, yeah. 481 00:20:29,689 --> 00:20:32,309 - And getting into bed with him? - My guess is yeah. 482 00:20:32,413 --> 00:20:34,763 The idea of Gary with another woman, 483 00:20:34,862 --> 00:20:37,692 performing sexually, wouldn't trouble you the least? 484 00:20:37,793 --> 00:20:40,483 No, I just realise it's the disease, 485 00:20:40,586 --> 00:20:41,826 and it's the way it is, 486 00:20:41,931 --> 00:20:43,791 and it's unconditional love. 487 00:20:43,896 --> 00:20:47,236 It's nothing to be bad for me, 488 00:20:47,344 --> 00:20:50,524 you know, it's not... Um, no. 489 00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:54,310 - Carla and Gary are in a relationship 490 00:20:54,413 --> 00:20:58,033 in which he's seeing other women at the care home... 491 00:20:59,241 --> 00:21:00,481 ..'cause he doesn't think he's married, 492 00:21:00,586 --> 00:21:03,276 he thinks he's a bachelor. 493 00:21:03,379 --> 00:21:06,279 And, you know, with Carla, she doesn't stop loving Gary. 494 00:21:09,275 --> 00:21:11,165 She just has to deal with this new Gary. 495 00:21:12,448 --> 00:21:13,408 - Bye, Gary. 496 00:21:13,517 --> 00:21:15,897 - See you, kid. - OK, love you. 497 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,480 - Nice doing business with you. - Ditto. 498 00:21:18,586 --> 00:21:20,136 - It's business? 499 00:21:20,241 --> 00:21:22,721 When she comes into town. 500 00:21:22,827 --> 00:21:27,447 So it's a depiction of love, but love under extreme stress. 501 00:21:27,551 --> 00:21:29,341 Are you gonna take me with you? 502 00:21:29,448 --> 00:21:31,068 - No. - Where you going? 503 00:21:31,172 --> 00:21:33,002 - You're still here, remember? You got a year's lease. 504 00:21:33,103 --> 00:21:34,723 So I have to stay here? 505 00:21:34,827 --> 00:21:35,897 - This is where you live, 506 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,070 and I live in South Chandler... 507 00:21:39,034 --> 00:21:40,694 ..in my own house. 508 00:21:42,758 --> 00:21:43,998 Jesus. 509 00:21:46,034 --> 00:21:47,664 - So, where are we going? - Me and you... 510 00:21:47,758 --> 00:21:48,858 - You're staying with April. 511 00:21:48,965 --> 00:21:50,065 - You're staying with me. 512 00:21:50,172 --> 00:21:51,282 We have the pleasure of that. 513 00:21:51,379 --> 00:21:53,029 - Let's go. - Really? 514 00:21:53,137 --> 00:21:56,307 Yeah, come on, you got the pleasure of being with me. 515 00:21:56,413 --> 00:21:57,313 What are you? 516 00:21:57,413 --> 00:21:59,003 - What do I call you? - Huh? 517 00:22:02,413 --> 00:22:03,593 Louis narrates: Afterwards, I heard 518 00:22:03,689 --> 00:22:06,409 that Gary moved to a different facility. 519 00:22:06,517 --> 00:22:08,237 He declined further. 520 00:22:10,586 --> 00:22:12,586 This is February 2016. 521 00:22:12,689 --> 00:22:16,619 It's a rather touching portrait of Gary and Carla, 522 00:22:16,724 --> 00:22:20,624 close to the end, done by a Phoenix radio station. 523 00:22:20,724 --> 00:22:22,214 Carla [on recording]: I am Carla, 524 00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:25,550 and I am married to Dr Gary Gilliam. 525 00:22:25,655 --> 00:22:27,335 I knew Hospice of the Valley 526 00:22:27,448 --> 00:22:30,718 was gonna be part of the end of our journey... 527 00:22:30,827 --> 00:22:32,967 ..and the day that I get the phone call 528 00:22:33,068 --> 00:22:35,518 that he has gone somewhere else... 529 00:22:35,620 --> 00:22:38,310 - [Gary mutters indistinctly] - [Carla chuckles] 530 00:22:38,413 --> 00:22:40,383 Carla: I have no regrets. 531 00:22:42,655 --> 00:22:43,825 Louis: Gary died... 532 00:22:45,689 --> 00:22:48,659 ..not long after this, in 2016. 533 00:22:49,862 --> 00:22:51,662 Carla: I love you. 534 00:22:55,620 --> 00:22:58,690 - Making the dementia film was huge for me, 535 00:22:58,793 --> 00:23:02,003 because it gave me the confidence 536 00:23:02,103 --> 00:23:03,863 to tell other stories 537 00:23:03,965 --> 00:23:05,895 in a similar vein, 538 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,520 so in the years afterwards, 539 00:23:07,620 --> 00:23:10,970 I took on documentaries about families 540 00:23:11,068 --> 00:23:14,028 enduring extraordinarily stressful 541 00:23:14,137 --> 00:23:15,657 and emotional events... 542 00:23:15,758 --> 00:23:17,968 - Langston. - It's your grandmother. 543 00:23:18,068 --> 00:23:19,928 Come on, turn your head over 544 00:23:20,034 --> 00:23:21,344 and give me a smile. 545 00:23:21,448 --> 00:23:24,718 Hey, come on over here. 546 00:23:24,827 --> 00:23:26,897 Louis narrates: ..going through the most profound, 547 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,000 life-changing situations. 548 00:23:29,103 --> 00:23:31,103 - What connection is there 549 00:23:31,206 --> 00:23:35,136 between a birth mum and a child? 550 00:23:35,241 --> 00:23:38,481 - It seems to be a connection that's... 551 00:23:39,551 --> 00:23:41,341 ..just there. 552 00:23:41,448 --> 00:23:43,588 I know that Isaiah feels that. 553 00:23:43,689 --> 00:23:46,479 The connection seems to be in the heart. 554 00:23:47,482 --> 00:23:49,212 - Hi. - How are you? 555 00:23:49,310 --> 00:23:50,550 - Good. 556 00:24:04,931 --> 00:24:07,521 Louis: Families involve interdependence. 557 00:24:07,620 --> 00:24:08,970 We support one another. 558 00:24:09,068 --> 00:24:12,758 Very often, we are entrusted with making decisions 559 00:24:12,862 --> 00:24:14,382 especially when other family members 560 00:24:14,482 --> 00:24:16,662 are vulnerable in some way, 561 00:24:16,758 --> 00:24:19,788 either because they're old, or because they're young, 562 00:24:19,896 --> 00:24:23,446 their minds are still immature, still developing. 563 00:24:24,862 --> 00:24:27,902 We make decisions for children all the time. 564 00:24:28,931 --> 00:24:30,171 In important respects, 565 00:24:30,275 --> 00:24:32,585 we consider that they are incapable 566 00:24:32,689 --> 00:24:34,969 of deciding what's best for themselves. 567 00:24:38,758 --> 00:24:40,138 The end of 2014, 568 00:24:40,241 --> 00:24:41,481 I was living in America 569 00:24:41,586 --> 00:24:43,376 and we were looking for new ideas, 570 00:24:43,482 --> 00:24:45,242 and over the years, 571 00:24:45,344 --> 00:24:48,484 I'd seen documentaries about trans adults, 572 00:24:48,586 --> 00:24:50,896 and people transitioning in adulthood, 573 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,410 and then someone I worked with 574 00:24:52,517 --> 00:24:55,857 suggested a documentary on trans kids. 575 00:24:57,413 --> 00:25:00,343 And I thought, with children, 576 00:25:00,448 --> 00:25:01,618 the stakes were higher, 577 00:25:01,724 --> 00:25:04,144 because they and their parents 578 00:25:04,241 --> 00:25:05,411 are making decisions 579 00:25:05,517 --> 00:25:07,237 that will affect their whole lives. 580 00:25:16,586 --> 00:25:18,826 Smile. 581 00:25:18,931 --> 00:25:20,901 Louis narrates: The main family that I spent time with, 582 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,170 the kid was called Camille... 583 00:25:23,275 --> 00:25:25,025 - Careful. Stay out of the road, Camille. 584 00:25:25,137 --> 00:25:26,717 Louis narrates: ..and Camille's parents were Casey 585 00:25:26,827 --> 00:25:27,897 and Eduardo. 586 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,830 Camille had only just turned six. 587 00:25:29,931 --> 00:25:33,481 Obviously quite young, but clearly intelligent, 588 00:25:33,586 --> 00:25:37,406 full of life, full of humour and energy. 589 00:25:37,517 --> 00:25:40,277 Camille: Oh, my god, that was close! 590 00:25:40,379 --> 00:25:42,139 Louis narrates: So we accompanied Camille 591 00:25:42,241 --> 00:25:43,931 on her first visit 592 00:25:44,034 --> 00:25:47,244 to a gender specialist called Diane Ehrensaft. 593 00:25:50,344 --> 00:25:52,764 So, Camille, the first thing I'm gonna ask you 594 00:25:52,862 --> 00:25:55,382 is just to draw a picture of a person. 595 00:25:56,482 --> 00:25:58,932 That's me. I can draw myself on here. 596 00:26:06,586 --> 00:26:07,656 That's me. 597 00:26:07,758 --> 00:26:10,758 - So, when you were born a long time ago, 598 00:26:10,862 --> 00:26:12,312 your mommy and daddy thought they had 599 00:26:12,413 --> 00:26:14,553 a little boy named Sebastian. 600 00:26:14,655 --> 00:26:16,895 Right now, how would you describe yourself? 601 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,380 - A girl. Not a boy, I'm a girl. 602 00:26:20,241 --> 00:26:22,341 - You're a boy and a girl, 603 00:26:22,448 --> 00:26:24,688 but you'd like to be a girl and not a boy. 604 00:26:25,586 --> 00:26:27,136 Not a boy and a girl anymore. 605 00:26:27,241 --> 00:26:29,691 - Not a boy and a girl anymore? - Not transgender. 606 00:26:29,793 --> 00:26:31,453 - And not transgender. 607 00:26:31,551 --> 00:26:34,691 But so, what shall we call it? 608 00:26:34,793 --> 00:26:37,383 Um, girl. 609 00:26:37,482 --> 00:26:38,792 Louis narrates: The doctors and clinicians 610 00:26:38,896 --> 00:26:40,856 I met in San Francisco 611 00:26:40,965 --> 00:26:42,925 were supporters of the idea 612 00:26:43,034 --> 00:26:46,664 of children being able to make the choice to transition. 613 00:26:46,758 --> 00:26:48,278 - Bye, Diane. - Goodbye. 614 00:26:48,379 --> 00:26:49,409 Louis narrates: What they told me was, 615 00:26:49,517 --> 00:26:50,857 "If you transition as a kid, 616 00:26:50,965 --> 00:26:53,305 "and you become a trans girl," let's say, 617 00:26:53,413 --> 00:26:55,763 "It was better for your long-term mental health." 618 00:26:57,586 --> 00:26:58,786 [horn honks] 619 00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:03,380 - Hello. - Hello. 620 00:27:03,482 --> 00:27:05,452 - Can I come in? - Come on in. 621 00:27:05,551 --> 00:27:07,381 - A change of outfit. Look at that. 622 00:27:09,068 --> 00:27:10,788 What's striking, looking around, 623 00:27:10,896 --> 00:27:14,446 is all the photos of Camille as Sebastian... 624 00:27:14,551 --> 00:27:16,831 - Yeah. - ..looking very boyish. 625 00:27:16,931 --> 00:27:18,281 - Yeah. - Yeah. 626 00:27:18,379 --> 00:27:20,099 - To me, that one's a tough one, 627 00:27:20,206 --> 00:27:24,516 because that was the last time we captured Sebastian. 628 00:27:24,620 --> 00:27:27,340 In honest opinion, that was the last time 629 00:27:27,448 --> 00:27:30,548 we saw that, you know, spikey little hair, 630 00:27:30,655 --> 00:27:32,165 and the cute little clothes. 631 00:27:32,275 --> 00:27:33,995 I think it was really, for me, 632 00:27:34,103 --> 00:27:36,003 kind of saying goodbye. 633 00:27:36,103 --> 00:27:39,593 And I don't...and it's not a bad thing in my mind, 634 00:27:39,689 --> 00:27:42,449 it's kind of like, "Yeah, that was the phase. We're done." 635 00:27:43,896 --> 00:27:46,786 Louis: What is going on? Camille, what are you doing? 636 00:27:46,896 --> 00:27:48,026 Putting lipstick on. 637 00:27:49,965 --> 00:27:52,825 - How...for how long have you been using Camille 638 00:27:52,931 --> 00:27:56,661 and the 'she' pronoun at home? 639 00:27:56,758 --> 00:27:57,898 - A month. - A month. 640 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,100 - Just a month, so this is all really new for you. 641 00:28:00,206 --> 00:28:01,516 This is very, very new. 642 00:28:01,620 --> 00:28:03,830 We get confused quite often. 643 00:28:03,931 --> 00:28:05,451 - How are you feeling about it? 644 00:28:07,620 --> 00:28:09,790 I'm fine. 645 00:28:09,896 --> 00:28:13,406 It's just hard getting used to going from one to the other. 646 00:28:13,517 --> 00:28:15,827 It's difficult, it's really difficult. 647 00:28:15,931 --> 00:28:17,481 It's not an easy thing to do. 648 00:28:17,586 --> 00:28:19,236 - Do you find it confusing ever? 649 00:28:19,344 --> 00:28:21,384 - Yeah, yeah. 650 00:28:21,482 --> 00:28:24,312 I think that's kind of par for the course sometimes, 651 00:28:24,413 --> 00:28:26,863 and I think it's that way with kids a lot, 652 00:28:26,965 --> 00:28:30,825 but definitely with discovering who you are as a person. 653 00:28:30,931 --> 00:28:32,901 - Trying to figure out what is solid 654 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,930 and consistent and dependable? 655 00:28:35,034 --> 00:28:37,694 And cater to that and support that. 656 00:28:37,793 --> 00:28:39,593 It is difficult. 657 00:28:39,689 --> 00:28:41,479 I'm not gonna lie, it's not easy. 658 00:28:41,586 --> 00:28:42,856 This is not a very easy thing. 659 00:28:42,965 --> 00:28:46,545 We may have had not so bad of a time at this, 660 00:28:46,655 --> 00:28:49,655 but it's not an easy road to travel. You... 661 00:28:52,137 --> 00:28:53,757 It's gut wrenching... 662 00:28:54,896 --> 00:28:55,926 ..honestly. 663 00:29:07,793 --> 00:29:09,143 Louis narrates: The hub of the action 664 00:29:09,241 --> 00:29:10,141 for the programme 665 00:29:10,241 --> 00:29:15,171 was a gender clinic at UC San Francisco. 666 00:29:16,448 --> 00:29:17,548 Charlie. 667 00:29:17,655 --> 00:29:21,445 So, do you prefer boy pronouns like 'he', 668 00:29:21,551 --> 00:29:23,071 or girl pronouns like 'she'? 669 00:29:23,172 --> 00:29:24,862 I just want to do it the way you want it. 670 00:29:24,965 --> 00:29:26,065 On the face of it, you have what seems 671 00:29:26,172 --> 00:29:30,212 a relatively straightforward...process - 672 00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:32,140 the decision to support the child 673 00:29:32,241 --> 00:29:35,521 in how he or she views him or herself, 674 00:29:35,620 --> 00:29:37,690 in terms of, you know, their gender... 675 00:29:39,620 --> 00:29:41,900 ..but there are also medical interventions 676 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,030 that go along with that. 677 00:29:44,413 --> 00:29:46,343 Louis: What's he doing? 678 00:29:46,448 --> 00:29:50,338 A month ago, he had another implant put in. 679 00:29:50,448 --> 00:29:51,998 What do you mean by an implant? 680 00:29:52,103 --> 00:29:54,523 Shay's on a puberty blocker. 681 00:29:54,620 --> 00:29:56,590 - Hi, Shay. I'm Louis. 682 00:29:56,689 --> 00:29:57,619 As you understand it, 683 00:29:57,724 --> 00:30:00,454 what is that little thing in there doing? 684 00:30:00,551 --> 00:30:02,211 - Making it so I don't go through puberty. 685 00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:04,410 - And why don't you want to go through puberty? 686 00:30:04,517 --> 00:30:06,657 - Because I don't want to be a girl. 687 00:30:06,758 --> 00:30:08,238 - You don't want to? - No. 688 00:30:08,344 --> 00:30:10,414 As puberty looms on the horizon, 689 00:30:10,517 --> 00:30:12,407 the child is given... 690 00:30:12,517 --> 00:30:15,137 assuming he or she wants to keep on that path, 691 00:30:15,241 --> 00:30:16,661 given puberty blockers, 692 00:30:16,758 --> 00:30:20,138 and then at a certain point, cross gender hormones, 693 00:30:20,241 --> 00:30:24,381 all of which are quite serious biological interventions. 694 00:30:24,482 --> 00:30:26,552 Any way you look at it, it's a big decision, 695 00:30:26,655 --> 00:30:30,965 on a question that will have lifelong medical consequences 696 00:30:31,068 --> 00:30:32,998 and psychological consequences. 697 00:30:37,758 --> 00:30:38,928 The heart of the documentary 698 00:30:39,034 --> 00:30:42,004 was Camille and Camille's family... 699 00:30:42,103 --> 00:30:45,103 ..just following the process of the transition, 700 00:30:45,206 --> 00:30:47,066 and I was there 701 00:30:47,172 --> 00:30:51,412 when Camille went to school in a dress for the first time. 702 00:30:53,724 --> 00:30:56,454 Louis! [parents chuckle] 703 00:30:59,689 --> 00:31:02,029 - Hello, there. How's it going? 704 00:31:04,724 --> 00:31:06,724 Look at you! What a nice dress. 705 00:31:11,517 --> 00:31:13,657 Was it any different 706 00:31:13,758 --> 00:31:15,718 wearing a dress than it is normally? 707 00:31:19,206 --> 00:31:22,236 You don't think Camille is still exploring... 708 00:31:23,965 --> 00:31:25,165 ..trying different things? 709 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,340 I don't know. 710 00:31:27,448 --> 00:31:29,618 Honestly, it's been such a... 711 00:31:31,241 --> 00:31:33,311 ..quick journey in the last one year 712 00:31:33,413 --> 00:31:34,483 that we've been going through this 713 00:31:34,586 --> 00:31:36,546 that it doesn't feel like... 714 00:31:38,655 --> 00:31:41,305 ..there's a lot of the exploration left. 715 00:31:41,413 --> 00:31:42,383 Now it's... 716 00:31:43,344 --> 00:31:45,244 ..big leaps and bounds forward. 717 00:31:46,448 --> 00:31:47,928 - After the program went out... 718 00:31:49,137 --> 00:31:50,447 ..I had the impression that 719 00:31:50,551 --> 00:31:54,141 we were kind of surfing the wave of quite a big cultural moment. 720 00:31:56,137 --> 00:32:00,167 Literally, within a month or so around our transmission... 721 00:32:01,172 --> 00:32:03,142 ..in 2015... 722 00:32:03,241 --> 00:32:06,901 ..Caitlyn Jenner came out as trans. 723 00:32:08,103 --> 00:32:11,593 Actors like Laverne Cox. 724 00:32:11,689 --> 00:32:13,859 But then, increasingly, you heard dissenting voices. 725 00:32:13,965 --> 00:32:15,275 Now, in recent years, 726 00:32:15,379 --> 00:32:18,309 there's been a huge increase in the number of children 727 00:32:18,413 --> 00:32:20,313 reporting gender dysphoria. 728 00:32:20,413 --> 00:32:21,593 Louis narrates: Early transitioning 729 00:32:21,689 --> 00:32:22,789 became a topic of debate 730 00:32:22,896 --> 00:32:24,966 on the most mainstream TV shows. 731 00:32:25,068 --> 00:32:27,618 There are now people who are in their mid-20s, 732 00:32:27,724 --> 00:32:30,384 and there's no coincidence about that age, either, 733 00:32:30,482 --> 00:32:31,862 but in their mid-20s, 734 00:32:31,965 --> 00:32:33,895 who are looking back and saying, 735 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,790 "I really regret what I've done." 736 00:32:35,896 --> 00:32:37,336 You know, it's a little over five years 737 00:32:37,448 --> 00:32:40,518 since I saw Camille and the family. 738 00:32:41,586 --> 00:32:42,616 But we've stayed in touch, 739 00:32:42,724 --> 00:32:45,104 and Camille's now 11 years old. 740 00:32:47,034 --> 00:32:50,244 In the end, I try and focus on what I can see, 741 00:32:50,344 --> 00:32:52,664 which is Camille's story. 742 00:32:53,724 --> 00:32:55,484 Loving, supportive parents, 743 00:32:55,586 --> 00:32:57,206 trying to do the best thing for Camille. 744 00:32:57,310 --> 00:32:58,210 Hello. 745 00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:59,620 Hey! How you doing? 746 00:32:59,724 --> 00:33:01,554 Good. How are you? 747 00:33:01,655 --> 00:33:02,895 Louis narrates: And they're moving along, 748 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,030 full-steam ahead, with her transition. 749 00:33:06,137 --> 00:33:09,897 I mean, that's...these are big decisions that she's made, 750 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,520 and she's made them informed decisions. 751 00:33:11,620 --> 00:33:14,930 No decision is made by any of us. 752 00:33:15,034 --> 00:33:16,484 It's all Camille-led. 753 00:33:16,586 --> 00:33:18,826 [laughs] She's the president of this team, 754 00:33:18,931 --> 00:33:21,171 and then now we're hitting puberty. 755 00:33:21,275 --> 00:33:25,615 We're gonna be getting her puberty blocker installed. 756 00:33:25,724 --> 00:33:28,794 "Installed" - it sounds like a car! [laughs] 757 00:33:28,896 --> 00:33:31,656 - Does that feel like a big step? 758 00:33:31,758 --> 00:33:32,828 Does that feel like a choice 759 00:33:32,931 --> 00:33:35,031 that you need to think about and interrogate? 760 00:33:35,137 --> 00:33:36,027 Or does that just feel like, 761 00:33:36,137 --> 00:33:38,547 "OK, that's what we're gonna do"? 762 00:33:38,655 --> 00:33:40,065 Yeah, it just feels like... 763 00:33:40,172 --> 00:33:41,902 Yeah, it's just gonna happen that... 764 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,410 I really don't care because this is... 765 00:33:43,517 --> 00:33:45,827 I know this is what I want. 766 00:33:45,931 --> 00:33:49,341 - That's an excellent summation of who she is as a person. 767 00:33:49,448 --> 00:33:50,998 She really is the kid 768 00:33:51,103 --> 00:33:53,723 who knows exactly what she wants, 769 00:33:53,827 --> 00:33:55,827 every second of every day, 770 00:33:55,931 --> 00:33:58,211 and moves forward with it, 771 00:33:58,310 --> 00:34:00,240 and never questions herself. 772 00:34:02,137 --> 00:34:03,477 Louis narrates: To me, what's most important 773 00:34:03,586 --> 00:34:04,686 is they seem to be doing really well, 774 00:34:04,793 --> 00:34:07,143 - and that Camille seems happy. - Bye! 775 00:34:07,241 --> 00:34:10,171 She's growing up, she's super smart, 776 00:34:10,275 --> 00:34:13,545 comes across as mature and well-adjusted, 777 00:34:13,655 --> 00:34:15,755 so that's what I see. 778 00:34:19,896 --> 00:34:21,096 Come on! 779 00:34:37,551 --> 00:34:40,861 - 2015, I was living in London with the family, 780 00:34:40,965 --> 00:34:43,095 and we'd had our third son, 781 00:34:43,206 --> 00:34:46,786 and I couldn't really travel for work. 782 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,830 For the previous 20 years, 783 00:34:49,931 --> 00:34:52,521 I'd been making programmes in America and elsewhere, 784 00:34:52,620 --> 00:34:53,860 but not in the UK. 785 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,140 I think for me, 786 00:34:56,241 --> 00:34:58,521 there'd always been a kind of safety 787 00:34:58,620 --> 00:35:03,140 in being among people who were very different to me... 788 00:35:03,241 --> 00:35:05,861 ..and now, here I was, faced with doing stories 789 00:35:05,965 --> 00:35:08,825 with no culture difference to hide behind. 790 00:35:08,931 --> 00:35:10,381 I'm gonna count to five... 791 00:35:11,275 --> 00:35:12,895 One of the ideas I looked at 792 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,930 was to do with brain injury. 793 00:35:19,172 --> 00:35:22,522 A lot of the film centred on a family. 794 00:35:22,620 --> 00:35:24,790 Rob and Amanda were the parents' names. 795 00:35:24,896 --> 00:35:26,166 The children, the two boys, 796 00:35:26,275 --> 00:35:28,715 were a similar age to my two oldest boys, 797 00:35:28,827 --> 00:35:30,927 and Amanda had fallen off a horse. 798 00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:33,280 - Hi, Rob. - Good morning. 799 00:35:33,379 --> 00:35:34,689 - How you doing? Alright? - Louis. 800 00:35:34,793 --> 00:35:36,243 Louis narrates: She'd spent 18 months 801 00:35:36,344 --> 00:35:38,034 in a brain injury unit. 802 00:35:38,137 --> 00:35:39,857 When we arrived the first time, 803 00:35:39,965 --> 00:35:43,065 she's only literally a couple of days 804 00:35:43,172 --> 00:35:45,832 out of supported accommodation 805 00:35:45,931 --> 00:35:50,281 and they'd put a huge effort into adapting their home 806 00:35:50,379 --> 00:35:52,619 so that she could live there, in an annexe. 807 00:35:54,379 --> 00:35:56,309 So, it's a story that's both extreme 808 00:35:56,413 --> 00:35:58,033 and very close to home. 809 00:35:59,862 --> 00:36:02,282 - So, this is your new house? 810 00:36:02,379 --> 00:36:04,789 - Yes, this is all... Yeah, the main bit we have. 811 00:36:04,896 --> 00:36:07,276 - And you've been here for how long? 812 00:36:07,379 --> 00:36:08,859 - Two weeks this weekend. - Two weeks. 813 00:36:13,137 --> 00:36:15,547 Pictures! 814 00:36:15,655 --> 00:36:18,135 Is it nice having Mummy back living with you? 815 00:36:18,241 --> 00:36:19,311 - Yeah. 816 00:36:19,413 --> 00:36:21,213 - Quite a big change, isn't it? - Yeah. 817 00:36:21,310 --> 00:36:22,660 Kiss. 818 00:36:22,758 --> 00:36:24,208 - Mwah! - Properly. 819 00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:25,210 - Nah. 820 00:36:25,310 --> 00:36:27,100 - Yes. - Oh. 821 00:36:27,206 --> 00:36:28,206 Mwah. 822 00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:30,720 - That's too quick and rubbish. - Never mind. 823 00:36:30,827 --> 00:36:32,167 - Where's Daddy gone? - I mind. 824 00:36:32,275 --> 00:36:33,475 - Where's Daddy? 825 00:36:35,172 --> 00:36:36,862 - Where is Amanda? 826 00:36:36,965 --> 00:36:38,715 So, this is Amanda's bedroom, 827 00:36:38,827 --> 00:36:40,027 Amanda's kitchen. 828 00:36:40,137 --> 00:36:41,477 Whether she uses it or not, I don't know. 829 00:36:41,586 --> 00:36:42,966 She hasn't yet, so it's... 830 00:36:43,068 --> 00:36:44,208 There is a lock on there. 831 00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:46,240 That was one of Amanda's stipulations, 832 00:36:46,344 --> 00:36:47,484 that she wanted the door locked. 833 00:36:47,586 --> 00:36:50,406 - She wanted a lock on the door? - Yes, yeah. 834 00:36:51,137 --> 00:36:52,517 What was that about? 835 00:36:52,620 --> 00:36:55,310 - Erm, perhaps a bit of privacy, I think. 836 00:36:55,413 --> 00:36:57,693 You know, she's been in an institution 837 00:36:57,793 --> 00:36:59,143 for such a long time, 838 00:36:59,241 --> 00:37:00,661 I think for her to come home 839 00:37:00,758 --> 00:37:02,338 and have just a bit of independence, 840 00:37:02,448 --> 00:37:04,068 to be honest. 841 00:37:04,172 --> 00:37:05,972 - That's Amanda, is it? - Mm-hm. 842 00:37:06,068 --> 00:37:08,658 - Yeah. That's Amanda there. - Is that Amanda? 843 00:37:08,758 --> 00:37:09,968 - Yeah. - What was that for? 844 00:37:10,068 --> 00:37:11,068 Amanda: ABBA night. 845 00:37:11,172 --> 00:37:13,242 - Oh, yeah. - Now, where are you, Rob? 846 00:37:13,344 --> 00:37:17,284 - Err, there, there. - So that's you. 847 00:37:17,379 --> 00:37:19,999 So, on Wednesday, you came back from the unit. 848 00:37:20,103 --> 00:37:21,693 - Yes. - And, as I understand it, 849 00:37:21,793 --> 00:37:24,833 to begin with, you were saying that you'd like to come out 850 00:37:24,931 --> 00:37:26,901 - to your own house... - Yes. 851 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,720 ..and not even be in the family home. 852 00:37:29,827 --> 00:37:32,167 - Yes. Mm-hm. - Is that right? Why was that? 853 00:37:32,275 --> 00:37:33,755 - Erm, I don't know. 854 00:37:33,862 --> 00:37:35,692 I just felt I would be better on my own, 855 00:37:35,793 --> 00:37:38,723 me and my dogs and my cats. 856 00:37:38,827 --> 00:37:40,587 - Amanda having her own house isn't doable. 857 00:37:40,689 --> 00:37:42,549 She would need a 24/7 carer. 858 00:37:42,655 --> 00:37:44,755 It's cheaper for Amanda to go into a care home. 859 00:37:46,034 --> 00:37:48,974 That's a 38-year-old going into a care home. 860 00:37:49,758 --> 00:37:51,448 No way. 861 00:37:51,551 --> 00:37:54,141 - That's just... - I wouldn't have minded. 862 00:37:55,724 --> 00:37:57,864 No, sadly. 863 00:37:57,965 --> 00:37:59,855 As far as you are aware, 864 00:37:59,965 --> 00:38:01,615 you feel you're the same person. 865 00:38:01,724 --> 00:38:02,664 - Yes. - And you've got 866 00:38:02,758 --> 00:38:04,968 some physical things that you need to work on. 867 00:38:05,068 --> 00:38:06,928 - Yes. - But there haven't been, 868 00:38:07,034 --> 00:38:09,864 sort of in your own sense of things, 869 00:38:09,965 --> 00:38:14,855 personality changes, or even brain damage, if you like. 870 00:38:14,965 --> 00:38:17,855 - Mmm, that's how I feel. - Is that how you feel about it? 871 00:38:17,965 --> 00:38:20,615 - Rob, is that your perspective, as well? 872 00:38:20,724 --> 00:38:21,934 No. 873 00:38:22,034 --> 00:38:24,694 No, I mean Amanda's still Amanda, of course, 874 00:38:24,793 --> 00:38:27,213 and there's still lots of Amanda... 875 00:38:27,310 --> 00:38:29,280 I say the 'old' Amanda, it's not the right word to use, 876 00:38:29,379 --> 00:38:32,169 but there's definite changes... 877 00:38:32,275 --> 00:38:33,235 ..you know, without a doubt. 878 00:38:33,344 --> 00:38:35,344 Especially on the emotional side of it - 879 00:38:35,448 --> 00:38:37,718 like, I find that quite hard. 880 00:38:37,827 --> 00:38:40,517 Your emotions are quite flat, 881 00:38:40,620 --> 00:38:43,170 and I do notice that things annoy you more. 882 00:38:43,275 --> 00:38:45,755 I mean, you've always said that you've lost your squishy side. 883 00:38:45,862 --> 00:38:46,972 Mm-hm. 884 00:38:47,068 --> 00:38:49,378 - At the risk of asking an intrusive question, 885 00:38:49,482 --> 00:38:50,792 so you've been together 22 years? 886 00:38:50,896 --> 00:38:52,856 Rob: Mm-hm. - That's a long relationship. 887 00:38:52,965 --> 00:38:54,545 Amanda: Yes. - Were you happy together? 888 00:38:54,655 --> 00:38:56,275 - Yes. - Very, yeah. 889 00:38:56,379 --> 00:38:57,519 Good team. 890 00:38:58,379 --> 00:39:00,409 Best buddies. It was good. 891 00:39:01,551 --> 00:39:03,381 Yeah, it was good, and it still is good, 892 00:39:03,482 --> 00:39:05,972 just different, for the time being. 893 00:39:06,068 --> 00:39:08,068 [inhales deeply] Yeah. 894 00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:13,170 - Stop tapping. - I know, drumming constantly. 895 00:39:13,275 --> 00:39:14,335 Stop it. 896 00:39:17,310 --> 00:39:18,480 Louis narrates: It became clear 897 00:39:18,586 --> 00:39:20,686 that there were strains there. 898 00:39:20,793 --> 00:39:24,173 Strains that, in some way, were completely recognisable 899 00:39:24,275 --> 00:39:26,405 from any young family. 900 00:39:26,517 --> 00:39:28,307 - Oh, a little chip. 901 00:39:28,413 --> 00:39:29,933 Louis narrates: Kids not behaving, 902 00:39:30,034 --> 00:39:32,214 Mum and Dad being tetchy with each other 903 00:39:32,310 --> 00:39:34,170 because they're tired, or whatever... 904 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:35,970 - Nice. 905 00:39:36,068 --> 00:39:38,758 - ..but with that sort of multiplied 906 00:39:38,862 --> 00:39:41,452 by the brain condition that Amanda had. 907 00:39:45,310 --> 00:39:46,550 A few weeks later, 908 00:39:46,655 --> 00:39:50,335 I went back for a second visit to see how it was going. 909 00:39:50,448 --> 00:39:52,338 - All OK? - Yeah, good. 910 00:39:52,448 --> 00:39:55,518 - Been difficult, hasn't it? - Yeah. 911 00:39:55,620 --> 00:39:57,380 - Difficult in what way? 912 00:39:57,482 --> 00:40:01,002 - Um... Just we'd sort of had the idea 913 00:40:01,103 --> 00:40:03,103 that Amanda was gonna be in the annexe, 914 00:40:03,206 --> 00:40:06,686 - that was her sort of... - I'm dead. I'm dead. 915 00:40:06,793 --> 00:40:08,763 ..prerequisite for coming home, 916 00:40:08,862 --> 00:40:11,452 was that she would stay in the annexe, 917 00:40:11,551 --> 00:40:13,031 but she hasn't, so it's made it a little bit difficult. 918 00:40:13,137 --> 00:40:17,687 Amanda's...not brilliant with the boys, 919 00:40:17,793 --> 00:40:21,903 just because she's got a bit of a short fuse. 920 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,690 And as she says, she's lost her 'squidgy bit', 921 00:40:23,793 --> 00:40:26,593 so she'll go from being super, super nice 922 00:40:26,689 --> 00:40:28,549 to... [imitates explosion] ..straight in, 923 00:40:28,655 --> 00:40:32,235 all singing, all dancing, lots of shouting. 924 00:40:32,344 --> 00:40:35,144 You said you've found it a bit hard, Mummy being back. 925 00:40:35,241 --> 00:40:36,691 Why was that? 926 00:40:36,793 --> 00:40:39,413 - Because she's been shouting at me non-stop. 927 00:40:39,517 --> 00:40:41,137 Ooh, a blue tit! Sorry. 928 00:40:41,241 --> 00:40:44,621 Err, yeah, she's been shouting at me non-stop. 929 00:40:44,724 --> 00:40:46,174 - Yeah, well, I could see that would be hard. 930 00:40:47,344 --> 00:40:49,144 - Yeah. - Because of the brain injury. 931 00:40:49,241 --> 00:40:50,521 Yeah. 932 00:40:51,448 --> 00:40:54,308 - Oscar, are you hungry? - Mmm? 933 00:40:54,413 --> 00:40:57,623 - I'm tuning it! - No, thank you. I'm not hungry. 934 00:40:57,724 --> 00:41:00,454 [indistinct chatter from TV] 935 00:41:00,551 --> 00:41:03,661 How do you feel now about being back? 936 00:41:03,758 --> 00:41:05,338 - You feel it's the right move? - It's nice. 937 00:41:05,448 --> 00:41:07,858 I get to see my kids every day... 938 00:41:07,965 --> 00:41:09,995 ..even if they don't want to see me. 939 00:41:10,931 --> 00:41:11,861 - Hey! 940 00:41:11,965 --> 00:41:14,165 - You wouldn't cuddle me last night before bed. 941 00:41:14,275 --> 00:41:15,335 [babbles] 942 00:41:17,551 --> 00:41:19,241 - That made me sad. 943 00:41:19,344 --> 00:41:20,834 - I know, but... 944 00:41:20,931 --> 00:41:22,031 "I know, but" what? 945 00:41:22,137 --> 00:41:24,517 - I was already in bed snuggled up 946 00:41:24,620 --> 00:41:27,280 - really, really, really tight. - I only wanted a cuddle. 947 00:41:27,379 --> 00:41:30,339 Do you care that you made me sad? 948 00:41:30,448 --> 00:41:34,518 [groans] It's not that, it's... [groans] 949 00:41:35,965 --> 00:41:38,135 He wouldn't give me a cuddle night-night. 950 00:41:38,241 --> 00:41:39,311 - No, it's not that, it's... 951 00:41:41,137 --> 00:41:42,407 - Do you still love me? 952 00:41:42,517 --> 00:41:45,587 Yes! Why wouldn't I? 953 00:41:45,689 --> 00:41:47,719 - Because you don't behave like you do. 954 00:41:51,793 --> 00:41:54,383 Louis: You get the feeling that aspects of family life 955 00:41:54,482 --> 00:41:56,902 really grated on Amanda's nerves, 956 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,690 and, you know, one of the things that a brain injury can do 957 00:41:59,793 --> 00:42:01,483 is sort of rub away some of that... 958 00:42:01,586 --> 00:42:05,306 patience, tolerance, sense of forbearing. 959 00:42:05,413 --> 00:42:07,243 Rob: You ready to attempt this Thai green curry? 960 00:42:07,344 --> 00:42:10,284 - Is it worth attempting? - I hope so. 961 00:42:11,931 --> 00:42:15,311 Louis narrates: Amanda wasn't totally happy. 962 00:42:15,413 --> 00:42:18,343 Rob seemed, to me, close to breaking point. 963 00:42:20,724 --> 00:42:22,904 Amanda: You laugh at me. 964 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,900 I wasn't laughing at you, I was just laughing. 965 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,100 - Mmm. 966 00:42:27,724 --> 00:42:28,974 Mm-hm. 967 00:42:30,448 --> 00:42:32,338 - Don't believe you. - No. 968 00:42:32,448 --> 00:42:34,098 - It feels like 969 00:42:34,206 --> 00:42:37,996 you're a little bit angry with Rob. 970 00:42:40,413 --> 00:42:42,903 He makes me out to be a bad person. 971 00:42:44,137 --> 00:42:46,687 You believe I'm a bad person. 972 00:42:47,931 --> 00:42:48,931 Mmm. 973 00:42:49,034 --> 00:42:50,904 Louis: Do you really believe that about Rob, 974 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,140 that he thinks you're actually a bad person? 975 00:42:53,241 --> 00:42:54,281 - Yeah, I do. 976 00:42:55,793 --> 00:42:58,933 Take that grin off your face, smoky pants. 977 00:42:59,724 --> 00:43:00,974 [Amanda chuckles softly] 978 00:43:01,068 --> 00:43:02,758 Yeah, it's a grin counteracting a... 979 00:43:02,862 --> 00:43:04,142 - You don't really think that about Rob, 980 00:43:04,241 --> 00:43:05,141 - do you? - I do. 981 00:43:05,241 --> 00:43:08,451 He doesn't like the way I am now. 982 00:43:08,551 --> 00:43:11,031 But like I said, the person he married 983 00:43:11,137 --> 00:43:12,997 died the day I fell off that horse. 984 00:43:13,103 --> 00:43:15,143 I am what's left... 985 00:43:15,241 --> 00:43:17,591 ..and I don't think I'm enough for you anymore. 986 00:43:17,689 --> 00:43:20,409 You don't feel loved by Rob? 987 00:43:20,517 --> 00:43:22,207 - No, not particularly. 988 00:43:22,310 --> 00:43:24,170 I feel like I'm a burden. 989 00:43:25,413 --> 00:43:27,663 - Rob was saying that he would like more 990 00:43:27,758 --> 00:43:30,338 of the sort of cuddling, 991 00:43:30,448 --> 00:43:32,518 - "I love you"... - Mm-hm. 992 00:43:33,931 --> 00:43:35,971 - ..stuff. - He's just a perv. 993 00:43:37,241 --> 00:43:39,341 - OK. [all laugh] 994 00:43:39,448 --> 00:43:41,998 Just go and get a shag, I don't care. 995 00:43:44,172 --> 00:43:45,312 What's up, Oscar? 996 00:43:46,310 --> 00:43:47,480 - What do you need? 997 00:43:47,586 --> 00:43:48,966 Louis: What I took away from the experience 998 00:43:49,068 --> 00:43:50,028 of filming with them 999 00:43:50,137 --> 00:43:52,447 was that life can be very unfair. 1000 00:43:52,551 --> 00:43:55,381 That a lightening strike of misfortune 1001 00:43:55,482 --> 00:43:57,592 can derail your life. 1002 00:43:57,689 --> 00:43:59,029 And as much as they adapted, 1003 00:43:59,137 --> 00:44:01,277 as much as they did their best with the new situation, 1004 00:44:01,379 --> 00:44:02,549 there's no question in my mind 1005 00:44:02,655 --> 00:44:05,275 that the horse fall and the brain injury 1006 00:44:05,379 --> 00:44:06,479 was horrendous, 1007 00:44:06,586 --> 00:44:09,336 and they had to get on with life. 1008 00:44:09,448 --> 00:44:13,238 So these profound, life-changing events... 1009 00:44:14,931 --> 00:44:17,101 ..you know, you tend to go, kind of stumble through life 1010 00:44:17,206 --> 00:44:19,546 thinking, "Don't sweat the small stuff - 1011 00:44:19,655 --> 00:44:20,895 "brackets - it's all small stuff." 1012 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,280 Well, some of it isn't small stuff. 1013 00:44:26,931 --> 00:44:30,171 Amanda's moved out of the family home. 1014 00:44:30,275 --> 00:44:33,965 She's got her own place now, with round-the-clock support. 1015 00:44:34,068 --> 00:44:36,098 Rob is checking up on her most days. 1016 00:44:36,206 --> 00:44:38,136 They speak every day 1017 00:44:38,241 --> 00:44:41,621 and he'll take the boys over every weekend to see her. 1018 00:44:44,034 --> 00:44:46,904 - Hello. - Hello. [laughs] 1019 00:44:47,724 --> 00:44:49,934 - You're looking quite red. 1020 00:44:50,034 --> 00:44:52,284 Is it my screen or are you actually that red? 1021 00:44:52,379 --> 00:44:55,789 - I don't know. Perhaps I've got a disease. 1022 00:44:55,896 --> 00:44:57,616 You... [laughs] 1023 00:44:57,724 --> 00:44:59,144 - Am I red? Rob: Yeah, you're red. 1024 00:44:59,241 --> 00:45:01,171 I'm red, apparently. 1025 00:45:01,275 --> 00:45:02,445 Rob's there with you. 1026 00:45:02,551 --> 00:45:03,551 - Hiya! - Yes. 1027 00:45:03,655 --> 00:45:05,925 - I'm hiding, I'm here. Oh, you can't see me. 1028 00:45:06,034 --> 00:45:07,004 - I can see you now. 1029 00:45:07,103 --> 00:45:08,903 You're looking quite red, as well. 1030 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,450 Thank you for doing this. 1031 00:45:11,551 --> 00:45:13,141 Your life was changed... 1032 00:45:14,275 --> 00:45:15,475 ..beyond recognition, 1033 00:45:15,586 --> 00:45:19,716 and when you look back, how do you make sense of it? 1034 00:45:20,689 --> 00:45:22,589 - There is no sense to be made. 1035 00:45:22,689 --> 00:45:27,139 It just is what it is, and I was unlucky. 1036 00:45:27,241 --> 00:45:30,661 And they gave me a 30% chance of survival 1037 00:45:30,758 --> 00:45:32,518 and I proved them wrong, 1038 00:45:32,620 --> 00:45:33,860 'cause I'm still here. 1039 00:45:33,965 --> 00:45:36,515 How's your relationship with Rob? 1040 00:45:36,620 --> 00:45:38,070 He's still my best friend. 1041 00:45:39,344 --> 00:45:41,864 And he's now got a new girlfriend. 1042 00:45:42,689 --> 00:45:44,139 So, yeah, 1043 00:45:44,241 --> 00:45:48,031 he's moved on with his life. I'm happy being single. 1044 00:45:48,137 --> 00:45:49,377 - What I observed was, 1045 00:45:49,482 --> 00:45:52,792 you do quite a bit of...teasing of Rob. 1046 00:45:54,068 --> 00:45:57,448 I was 17 when... I was still at school 1047 00:45:57,551 --> 00:45:58,791 when we met, 1048 00:45:58,896 --> 00:46:01,656 and now I am 40-flipping-3 1049 00:46:01,758 --> 00:46:04,518 and I still love him. 1050 00:46:04,620 --> 00:46:07,030 And he still makes me laugh and he's still a bugger. 1051 00:46:07,137 --> 00:46:09,927 [chuckles] But he's mine. 1052 00:46:10,034 --> 00:46:12,344 I wonder if it would make sense to talk to the both of you 1053 00:46:12,448 --> 00:46:14,068 - together for a minute. - OK. 1054 00:46:14,172 --> 00:46:15,312 Would you be alright to do that? 1055 00:46:15,413 --> 00:46:16,723 - Yeah. 1056 00:46:16,827 --> 00:46:18,857 - There he is. [chuckles] 1057 00:46:18,965 --> 00:46:22,545 He's hiding behind the door. Come in! 1058 00:46:22,655 --> 00:46:23,925 If I can just 1059 00:46:24,034 --> 00:46:27,284 take an outsider's perspective for a moment... 1060 00:46:27,379 --> 00:46:29,549 ..what I am hearing is you're happy in your house, 1061 00:46:29,655 --> 00:46:34,895 but you feel Rob's moved on in a way that's really painful. 1062 00:46:35,931 --> 00:46:38,171 Yes he has, but are you happy? 1063 00:46:38,275 --> 00:46:39,335 - Yeah. 1064 00:46:39,448 --> 00:46:41,338 - Do you love her? - Yeah. 1065 00:46:41,448 --> 00:46:42,588 - You do? - Yeah. 1066 00:46:42,689 --> 00:46:44,689 Ah, that's the first time he's said that. 1067 00:46:46,413 --> 00:46:48,483 Yeah, but I don't really talk about it with you 1068 00:46:48,586 --> 00:46:49,686 because it'll probably hurt. 1069 00:46:49,793 --> 00:46:52,593 Well, it does anyway. It's been three years. 1070 00:46:52,689 --> 00:46:53,689 Rob: Mmm. 1071 00:46:53,793 --> 00:46:55,973 If Rob ever decided, like, 1072 00:46:56,068 --> 00:46:59,138 in order to make his new relationship work, 1073 00:46:59,241 --> 00:47:01,411 that he needed to establish more distance... 1074 00:47:02,379 --> 00:47:04,449 ..from you, Amanda, 1075 00:47:04,551 --> 00:47:07,031 would you be able to let go, do you think? 1076 00:47:07,137 --> 00:47:09,067 I already have. 1077 00:47:09,172 --> 00:47:11,832 It doesn't make me happy, but I have. 1078 00:47:11,931 --> 00:47:14,791 He's got his own life, I just disapprove. 1079 00:47:17,172 --> 00:47:18,792 So I've already let go. 1080 00:47:20,827 --> 00:47:21,827 There you go. 1081 00:47:21,931 --> 00:47:24,171 But you call him quite a lot, I think. 1082 00:47:25,448 --> 00:47:26,998 Erm, every day. 1083 00:47:28,172 --> 00:47:29,722 - Maybe more than once? 1084 00:47:29,827 --> 00:47:31,717 - Only if he doesn't answer. 1085 00:47:35,482 --> 00:47:36,762 If Rob said, "OK, 1086 00:47:36,862 --> 00:47:39,382 "in order to move on with my life, 1087 00:47:39,482 --> 00:47:41,212 "I need you to stop calling"...? 1088 00:47:42,689 --> 00:47:45,309 I'd be sad, but I would stop. 1089 00:47:46,793 --> 00:47:49,073 That's it, I'm not calling you ever again. 1090 00:47:49,172 --> 00:47:50,172 OK, that's fine, that's fine. 1091 00:47:50,275 --> 00:47:51,895 OK, done. 1092 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,100 - That's never gonna happen. - There we go. 1093 00:47:54,206 --> 00:47:56,306 I'm glad I could sort that out for you. 1094 00:47:56,413 --> 00:47:57,413 - Yeah. 1095 00:47:57,517 --> 00:47:59,167 [both laugh] 1096 00:48:01,448 --> 00:48:02,758 [baby coos] 1097 00:48:04,275 --> 00:48:05,825 Please, don't. 1098 00:48:06,793 --> 00:48:07,933 Rob: Mummy! 1099 00:48:08,724 --> 00:48:10,554 Mind this arm, that's it, 1100 00:48:10,655 --> 00:48:12,785 and you can sit on my leg. That's better. 1101 00:48:12,896 --> 00:48:14,686 Rob: There's the two brothers. 1102 00:48:17,896 --> 00:48:19,406 Amanda: Oscar's having a busy day. 1103 00:48:20,931 --> 00:48:24,341 Oh, cool dude. Sunnies, shorts and wellies. 1104 00:48:25,137 --> 00:48:26,517 Shorts and wellies! 1105 00:48:27,689 --> 00:48:28,789 Amanda: Fab-o. 1106 00:48:33,827 --> 00:48:35,657 - How did I die? 1107 00:48:35,758 --> 00:48:37,718 That's a great place to stop. 1108 00:48:37,827 --> 00:48:39,277 - No, Dad. - Yeah, it's time to go up. 1109 00:48:39,379 --> 00:48:40,659 - No, Dad! 1110 00:48:43,931 --> 00:48:46,341 - You can read some more of these books, if you like. 1111 00:48:47,586 --> 00:48:49,026 - Read them? - Yeah. 1112 00:48:50,655 --> 00:48:53,475 - I saw how much all of them 1113 00:48:53,586 --> 00:48:56,546 were willing to put themselves through 1114 00:48:56,655 --> 00:48:57,995 to make it work. 1115 00:48:59,379 --> 00:49:00,999 I think, in the end... 1116 00:49:03,620 --> 00:49:06,100 ..for that family, that family made the decision 1117 00:49:06,206 --> 00:49:07,656 that they needed to make. 1118 00:49:08,482 --> 00:49:10,592 Amanda: Oliver. - Yeah? 1119 00:49:10,689 --> 00:49:12,209 Amanda: What are you doing? 1120 00:49:12,310 --> 00:49:14,000 Rob: Oli, Oli, Oli! 1121 00:49:15,275 --> 00:49:17,615 Louis narrates: Love is hard... 1122 00:49:17,724 --> 00:49:19,974 ..and subject to all different kinds of strains 1123 00:49:20,068 --> 00:49:22,588 to do with people changing. 1124 00:49:24,758 --> 00:49:26,208 Or people succumbing 1125 00:49:26,310 --> 00:49:29,100 to serious diseases like dementia... 1126 00:49:29,206 --> 00:49:31,096 - You guys want some floss or something? 1127 00:49:31,206 --> 00:49:33,516 - I've got my own, thanks. - OK. 1128 00:49:35,482 --> 00:49:37,342 Louis narrates: ..or their behaviour just being impossible. 1129 00:49:38,551 --> 00:49:39,831 - You haven't seen Solvi in a few weeks. 1130 00:49:39,931 --> 00:49:41,451 - Hi, Solvi! 1131 00:49:41,551 --> 00:49:42,481 Do you remember...? 1132 00:49:42,586 --> 00:49:44,096 Louis narrates: And it's in the nature of love 1133 00:49:44,206 --> 00:49:46,896 that because of how powerful it is, 1134 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,410 that it brings risk with it... 1135 00:49:51,413 --> 00:49:53,173 ..the risk that it will end. 1136 00:49:53,275 --> 00:49:54,825 I'm just smiling at you. 1137 00:49:54,931 --> 00:49:56,661 - Why? - I don't know. 1138 00:49:58,482 --> 00:50:00,342 Louis narrates: But you don't stop loving 1139 00:50:00,448 --> 00:50:01,718 because of the risk. 1140 00:50:01,827 --> 00:50:05,377 In fact, the risk is what makes love so precious... 1141 00:50:05,482 --> 00:50:07,382 "They were playing Chip's new game, 1142 00:50:07,482 --> 00:50:09,722 "secret of the sands." 1143 00:50:09,827 --> 00:50:11,237 Love you. [kisses] 1144 00:50:11,344 --> 00:50:13,794 - Goodnight! - Goodnight. 1145 00:50:13,896 --> 00:50:14,856 Louis narrates: ..which makes it 1146 00:50:14,965 --> 00:50:16,065 all the more important 1147 00:50:16,172 --> 00:50:19,382 that you value every minute that you have it. 1148 00:50:19,482 --> 00:50:22,482 Captioned by Ai-Media ai-media.tv 79512

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.