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1
00:00:10,043 --> 00:00:11,612
I was doing this show
in Brooklyn ‐‐
2
00:00:11,612 --> 00:00:12,746
in Brooklyn, diverse Brooklyn!
3
00:00:12,746 --> 00:00:14,646
This kid comes up to me
and he’s like,
4
00:00:14,648 --> 00:00:16,016
"Dude, I think
you’re really funny.
5
00:00:16,016 --> 00:00:17,376
That’s a big deal
coming from me.
6
00:00:17,384 --> 00:00:19,987
I don’t usually
find ethnic comedy funny."
7
00:00:19,987 --> 00:00:23,257
I was like, "Why would you
say that to my face?
8
00:00:23,257 --> 00:00:24,387
You could’ve tweeted that.
9
00:00:24,391 --> 00:00:26,059
Why...
10
00:00:26,059 --> 00:00:27,728
Why are you hurting me
in real time?
11
00:00:27,728 --> 00:00:29,558
Why is this happening
right now?"
12
00:00:29,563 --> 00:00:31,463
Ethnic comedy?
What does ethnic comedy mean?
13
00:00:31,465 --> 00:00:33,066
It’s not like my whole act is,
14
00:00:33,066 --> 00:00:36,136
"Hey, brown people
look like this.
15
00:00:36,136 --> 00:00:37,196
Hold up.
16
00:00:37,204 --> 00:00:40,040
White people,
they look like that!"
17
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:41,570
[ Laughter ]
18
00:00:43,644 --> 00:00:45,445
I’ll take your laughs,
nonetheless.
19
00:00:45,445 --> 00:00:46,305
I mean...
20
00:00:48,215 --> 00:00:51,518
Thank ‐‐ Oh, that’s a racist
Apu joke in Denver.
21
00:00:51,518 --> 00:00:53,018
Boulder just went up
another notch,
22
00:00:53,020 --> 00:00:54,850
just like that.
23
00:00:54,855 --> 00:00:57,658
I know you from high school,
even though I don’t.
24
00:00:57,658 --> 00:01:00,127
You’re the reason
I do comedy, sir.
25
00:01:00,127 --> 00:01:02,496
You’re the reason
I thought to myself,
26
00:01:02,496 --> 00:01:05,626
"Nobody like us exists
except this cartoon character.
27
00:01:05,632 --> 00:01:06,967
I’m gonna show up,
28
00:01:06,967 --> 00:01:09,167
and I’m gonna be the best
[bleep] comic in the country,
29
00:01:09,169 --> 00:01:11,269
and I’m gonna make less
than I deserve in Denver."
30
00:01:11,271 --> 00:01:15,175
♪
31
00:01:15,175 --> 00:01:18,405
28 years later, and the words
"Thank you, come again"
32
00:01:18,412 --> 00:01:21,048
still follow me wherever I go.
33
00:01:21,048 --> 00:01:22,978
Hey, my name is Hari Konadabolu,
34
00:01:22,983 --> 00:01:25,752
and I’m a stand up comic
in Brooklyn, New York.
35
00:01:25,752 --> 00:01:27,988
I’m the son of two immigrants
from India who,
36
00:01:27,988 --> 00:01:29,788
despite me being
a stand up comic,
37
00:01:29,790 --> 00:01:31,720
are still alive.
38
00:01:31,725 --> 00:01:34,161
My brother Ashok and I
grew up in Queens.
39
00:01:34,161 --> 00:01:37,731
Here is a picture of us
pretending to have Christmas.
40
00:01:37,731 --> 00:01:39,800
I’ve had a great career filled
with laughter,
41
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,330
critical acclaim,
42
00:01:41,335 --> 00:01:42,502
and me shaking the hands
43
00:01:42,502 --> 00:01:45,002
of many famous white men
on television.
44
00:01:45,005 --> 00:01:47,307
I should be completely happy.
45
00:01:47,307 --> 00:01:50,437
But there’s still one man
who haunts me ‐‐
46
00:01:50,444 --> 00:01:54,214
Apu Nahasapeemapetilon.
47
00:01:54,214 --> 00:01:57,050
Serving the customer
is merriment enough for me.
48
00:01:57,050 --> 00:01:59,386
Thank you, come again.
49
00:01:59,386 --> 00:02:01,186
Hey, Ganesha.
Want a peanut?
50
00:02:01,188 --> 00:02:03,088
Please do not offer
my God a peanut.
51
00:02:03,090 --> 00:02:05,325
You’re stealing wishes?
52
00:02:05,325 --> 00:02:07,985
Please pay for your purchases
and get out and come again!
53
00:02:09,429 --> 00:02:10,397
Oh, look.
54
00:02:10,397 --> 00:02:12,966
It is encrusted with filth.
55
00:02:12,966 --> 00:02:13,996
Oh, well.
56
00:02:14,001 --> 00:02:15,901
Let’s sell it anyway.
57
00:02:15,902 --> 00:02:18,138
Now, this is just
between me and you.
58
00:02:18,138 --> 00:02:21,468
♪
59
00:02:21,475 --> 00:02:23,710
[ Cheering ]
60
00:02:23,710 --> 00:02:25,379
Hari Konadabolu, everybody!
Hari Konadabolu!
61
00:02:25,379 --> 00:02:28,515
Hari: I publicly declared
my war on Apu in 2012
62
00:02:28,515 --> 00:02:29,875
on the FX show,
63
00:02:29,883 --> 00:02:32,419
"Totally Biased
with W. Kamau Bell."
64
00:02:32,419 --> 00:02:35,355
I did a piece about
Indian‐Americans in the media.
65
00:02:35,355 --> 00:02:37,555
We’ve had an amazing run
the last few years
66
00:02:37,557 --> 00:02:40,327
with more Indians in
the public eye than ever before.
67
00:02:40,327 --> 00:02:42,596
There’s, like, 14 of us now.
68
00:02:42,596 --> 00:02:44,256
[ Laughter ]
69
00:02:44,264 --> 00:02:47,768
There’s now enough Indian people
where I don’t need to like you
70
00:02:47,768 --> 00:02:51,368
just because you’re Indian.
71
00:02:51,371 --> 00:02:52,539
Because growing up,
72
00:02:52,539 --> 00:02:55,039
I had no choice
but to like this.
73
00:02:55,042 --> 00:02:57,511
[ Audience groans ]
74
00:02:57,511 --> 00:02:58,979
Yeah.
75
00:02:58,979 --> 00:03:00,509
[ Laughter ]
76
00:03:03,316 --> 00:03:07,246
This all started
because you asked me
77
00:03:07,254 --> 00:03:09,956
to do a piece
on your old television show,
78
00:03:09,956 --> 00:03:12,286
"Totally Biased,"
when I used to write for it.
79
00:03:12,292 --> 00:03:15,295
You said,
"If you don’t do this,
80
00:03:15,295 --> 00:03:17,795
I will fire you."
[ Laughs ]
81
00:03:17,798 --> 00:03:19,498
And I’m like,
"You know what?
82
00:03:19,499 --> 00:03:20,599
That’s ‐‐ that is...
That’s good advice.
83
00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,369
That’s good advice."
That’s good advice.
84
00:03:22,369 --> 00:03:25,505
I couldn’t imagine anybody
85
00:03:25,505 --> 00:03:28,265
wanting to hear
about Indian representation.
86
00:03:28,275 --> 00:03:30,143
As soon as people
got what you were doing,
87
00:03:30,143 --> 00:03:31,678
and it wasn’t like it was
an all Southasian audience,
88
00:03:31,678 --> 00:03:34,108
but it was an audience who
understood about representation.
89
00:03:34,114 --> 00:03:35,482
And it was, like,
the pop of like,
90
00:03:35,482 --> 00:03:37,482
"Yes, we know exactly
what you’re talking about.
91
00:03:37,484 --> 00:03:39,453
We’re ready.
Take us on the journey."
92
00:03:39,453 --> 00:03:41,653
Apu ‐‐ a cartoon character
93
00:03:41,655 --> 00:03:44,791
voiced by Hank Azaria,
a white guy.
94
00:03:44,791 --> 00:03:46,326
[ Laughter ]
95
00:03:46,326 --> 00:03:48,956
A white guy doing an impression
96
00:03:48,962 --> 00:03:52,132
of a white guy
making fun of my father.
97
00:03:52,132 --> 00:03:53,672
[ Laughter ]
98
00:03:55,102 --> 00:03:57,771
If ‐‐
99
00:03:57,771 --> 00:04:00,671
If I saw Hank Azaria
do that voice at a party,
100
00:04:00,674 --> 00:04:03,043
I would kick the [bleep]
out of him.
101
00:04:03,043 --> 00:04:04,913
[ Applause, cheers ]
102
00:04:09,916 --> 00:04:11,916
Yeah.
103
00:04:11,918 --> 00:04:15,458
Or I’d imagine
kicking the [bleep] out of him.
104
00:04:17,457 --> 00:04:19,926
Now, I realize some of you
think I’m some annoying
105
00:04:19,926 --> 00:04:21,926
P. C. social‐justice warrior
106
00:04:21,928 --> 00:04:24,428
that’s very sensitive
and is obsessed
107
00:04:24,431 --> 00:04:27,000
with a 28‐year‐old
cartoon character.
108
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,969
You’re probably thinking,
"Come on, snowflake.
109
00:04:28,969 --> 00:04:30,369
Let it go."
110
00:04:30,370 --> 00:04:32,005
Well, I have let it go...
111
00:04:32,005 --> 00:04:34,265
for 28 years.
112
00:04:34,274 --> 00:04:36,910
♪
113
00:04:36,910 --> 00:04:39,646
Look, man.
I don’t hate "The Simpsons."
114
00:04:39,646 --> 00:04:43,316
In fact, I have always
loved "The Simpsons."
115
00:04:43,316 --> 00:04:46,786
It’s one of the main reasons
that I knew you could be smart
116
00:04:46,787 --> 00:04:50,287
and funny and political
at the same time.
117
00:04:50,290 --> 00:04:52,325
It taught me about
Pablo Neruda
118
00:04:52,325 --> 00:04:54,085
and Gore Vidal
119
00:04:54,094 --> 00:04:56,096
and Stanley Kubrick.
120
00:04:56,096 --> 00:04:58,196
It shaped me into
the person and the comedian
121
00:04:58,198 --> 00:05:00,066
that I am today.
122
00:05:00,066 --> 00:05:01,366
And, yes, I know Apu is one of
123
00:05:01,368 --> 00:05:03,098
the smartest characters
on "The Simpsons."
124
00:05:03,103 --> 00:05:04,871
Granted,
the bar isn’t very high.
125
00:05:04,871 --> 00:05:05,939
[ Belches ]
126
00:05:05,939 --> 00:05:07,869
But that’s not
why people liked him.
127
00:05:07,874 --> 00:05:09,943
They just liked his accent.
128
00:05:09,943 --> 00:05:11,978
I never heard anyone say
they liked Apu
129
00:05:11,978 --> 00:05:13,608
because he exposed the idiocy
130
00:05:13,613 --> 00:05:15,213
and bigotry of Americans
131
00:05:15,215 --> 00:05:17,284
and the struggles
of the average immigrant.
132
00:05:17,284 --> 00:05:18,451
No.
133
00:05:18,451 --> 00:05:20,387
It was just, "I love Apu.
134
00:05:20,387 --> 00:05:22,556
That voice is hilarious."
135
00:05:22,556 --> 00:05:25,725
Pardon me, but I would like
to see this money spent
136
00:05:25,725 --> 00:05:27,425
on more police officers.
137
00:05:27,427 --> 00:05:29,796
I have been shot
eight times this year.
138
00:05:29,796 --> 00:05:32,426
And as a result,
I almost missed work.
139
00:05:32,432 --> 00:05:33,332
I hate Apu.
140
00:05:33,333 --> 00:05:35,302
Hate Apu?
Hate Apu.
141
00:05:35,302 --> 00:05:37,370
And because of that,
I dislike "The Simpsons."
142
00:05:37,370 --> 00:05:38,770
Wow, the whole series?
143
00:05:38,772 --> 00:05:39,840
Yeah.
144
00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:41,107
The whole series?
Yeah.
145
00:05:41,107 --> 00:05:42,307
I love "The Simpsons."
146
00:05:42,309 --> 00:05:43,777
I just don’t love that character
but the whole thing?
147
00:05:43,777 --> 00:05:45,846
I have never been able
to divorce the two.
148
00:05:45,846 --> 00:05:48,506
I love "The Simpsons"
because...
149
00:05:48,515 --> 00:05:50,750
You hate yourself.
...’cause I comple‐‐
150
00:05:50,750 --> 00:05:52,450
This whole film
is me trying
151
00:05:52,452 --> 00:05:53,887
to get over the fact
I hate myself.
152
00:05:53,887 --> 00:05:57,657
How many of you were bullied
in any capacity as a child?
153
00:05:57,657 --> 00:05:59,387
‐Are we raising hands?
‐Yeah, raising hands.
154
00:05:59,392 --> 00:06:01,761
We’ll do the hands thing.
Yeah. Okay.
155
00:06:01,761 --> 00:06:05,431
Now, how many had
to deal with, like,
156
00:06:05,432 --> 00:06:09,402
being called Apu
or that being referenced.
157
00:06:09,402 --> 00:06:11,002
I’m driving with my dad
as a little kid,
158
00:06:11,004 --> 00:06:12,772
and someone goes like,
"Bing, bing!"
159
00:06:12,772 --> 00:06:14,172
They say like, "Oh, hey," ‐‐
160
00:06:14,174 --> 00:06:15,942
and they’re doing, like,
the Indian voice ‐‐
161
00:06:15,942 --> 00:06:17,242
like, "Hey, I need to get
another Slurpee.
162
00:06:17,244 --> 00:06:19,312
Can you tell me
where the Kwik‐E‐Mart is?
163
00:06:19,312 --> 00:06:21,012
Thank you, come again!"
And they drive off.
164
00:06:21,014 --> 00:06:24,451
I remember in seventh grade,
actually, being bullied
165
00:06:24,451 --> 00:06:26,786
by this guy
who would speak to me,
166
00:06:26,786 --> 00:06:28,916
actually,
with Apu’s accent
167
00:06:28,922 --> 00:06:31,057
or the accent that he thought
all Indians spoke with.
168
00:06:31,057 --> 00:06:32,726
Pancholy: We lived next
to, like, 7‐Eleven.
169
00:06:32,726 --> 00:06:34,426
And there was always, like,
a sense of like,
170
00:06:34,427 --> 00:06:35,957
"Oh, please don’t let it be
an Indian person
171
00:06:35,962 --> 00:06:38,031
working behind the counter
because if it is,
172
00:06:38,031 --> 00:06:40,567
my friends are gonna do,
like, the Apu thing."
173
00:06:40,567 --> 00:06:43,497
I just would wonder
how many Indian‐American,
174
00:06:43,503 --> 00:06:45,272
Southasian‐Americans,
175
00:06:45,272 --> 00:06:46,640
have had to deal with this.
176
00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,309
This [bleep] guy,
this Apu,
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00:06:49,309 --> 00:06:52,379
this one character created
178
00:06:52,379 --> 00:06:54,247
so many problems
179
00:06:54,247 --> 00:06:58,447
psychologically, emotionally,
for so many people.
180
00:06:58,451 --> 00:07:00,487
They didn’t mean for it
to happen.
181
00:07:00,487 --> 00:07:04,087
We just were underrepresented,
and so we struggled.
182
00:07:04,090 --> 00:07:07,060
And the kind of racism that made
Apu possible in Hollywood
183
00:07:07,060 --> 00:07:09,760
still exists everywhere.
184
00:07:09,763 --> 00:07:12,432
Apu represents an America
that makes fun of immigrants
185
00:07:12,432 --> 00:07:14,501
and anyone who is not white.
186
00:07:14,501 --> 00:07:16,136
Yes, trolls, I know.
187
00:07:16,136 --> 00:07:17,536
They’re yellow.
188
00:07:17,537 --> 00:07:21,107
My mission is to figure out
how we ended up with Apu
189
00:07:21,107 --> 00:07:23,076
and how we can get rid of him.
190
00:07:23,076 --> 00:07:26,446
And I think I know someone
who might be able to help us.
191
00:07:31,151 --> 00:07:32,619
Hari:
1989 was a big year.
192
00:07:32,619 --> 00:07:34,519
The Berlin Wall fell.
193
00:07:34,521 --> 00:07:37,390
Billy Joel claimed
he didn’t start a fire.
194
00:07:37,390 --> 00:07:38,990
I got the chicken pox.
195
00:07:38,992 --> 00:07:41,261
But most relevant for this film,
196
00:07:41,261 --> 00:07:42,961
"The Simpsons" was created
197
00:07:42,963 --> 00:07:45,432
and my life was never the same.
198
00:07:45,432 --> 00:07:48,468
Can you give us a brief history
of "The Simpsons"?
199
00:07:48,468 --> 00:07:50,136
There was a brand‐new
network, Fox,
200
00:07:50,136 --> 00:07:51,736
and they were
desperate for content.
201
00:07:51,738 --> 00:07:53,938
And they needed content that
no one else was doing,
202
00:07:53,940 --> 00:07:55,809
that would sell, and that
was a little controversial.
203
00:07:55,809 --> 00:07:58,239
Why, you little!
204
00:07:58,244 --> 00:08:01,281
But they were funny and smart,
and they looked really weird.
205
00:08:01,281 --> 00:08:03,817
No one had really seen
animation like this on ‐‐
206
00:08:03,817 --> 00:08:05,517
on network TV before.
207
00:08:05,518 --> 00:08:07,487
"The Simpsons" were huge.
208
00:08:07,487 --> 00:08:08,747
They were everywhere.
209
00:08:08,755 --> 00:08:10,757
T‐shirts, toys,
210
00:08:10,757 --> 00:08:12,225
candy bar commercials,
211
00:08:12,225 --> 00:08:13,385
chicken commercials,
212
00:08:13,393 --> 00:08:14,793
car commercials,
213
00:08:14,794 --> 00:08:18,334
and even bizarre car commercials
from France.
214
00:08:21,935 --> 00:08:24,838
They were
an international phenomenon.
215
00:08:24,838 --> 00:08:25,968
And you’re a huge
"Simpsons" fan.
216
00:08:25,972 --> 00:08:26,972
Um, yeah.
217
00:08:26,973 --> 00:08:28,541
It was something
that I grew up with,
218
00:08:28,541 --> 00:08:30,210
and it was something
that was always on the TV
219
00:08:30,210 --> 00:08:31,510
when I came home
from school.
220
00:08:31,511 --> 00:08:33,380
Did you guys grow up
watching "The Simpsons"?
221
00:08:33,380 --> 00:08:34,810
Absolutely.
I love that show.
222
00:08:34,814 --> 00:08:37,951
I loved that you could watch
the episodes again and again,
223
00:08:37,951 --> 00:08:40,951
and you would always get a joke
that you missed the first time.
224
00:08:40,954 --> 00:08:42,856
What do you love
about "The Simpsons"?
225
00:08:42,856 --> 00:08:45,686
Probably its humor.
It’s pretty unique.
226
00:08:45,692 --> 00:08:48,628
It just represents everything
about humanity,
227
00:08:48,628 --> 00:08:50,296
I think,
but in a funny aspect.
228
00:08:50,296 --> 00:08:51,996
And you know, America
went through a time
229
00:08:51,998 --> 00:08:53,698
when "The Simpsons"
owned America.
230
00:08:53,700 --> 00:08:55,268
I remember when that
was appointment television,
231
00:08:55,268 --> 00:08:56,768
where if you didn’t see
"The Simpsons" on Sunday,
232
00:08:56,770 --> 00:08:58,570
you couldn’t have a conversation
on Monday with some people.
233
00:08:58,571 --> 00:09:00,571
Yeah. It was also edgy.
It was edgy at the time.
Yeah.
234
00:09:00,573 --> 00:09:02,709
La‐la‐la‐la‐la‐la‐la!
Ha! Ha!
235
00:09:02,709 --> 00:09:04,139
La‐la‐la! Ha! ha!
La‐la‐la‐la!
236
00:09:04,144 --> 00:09:05,211
Stop him!
237
00:09:05,211 --> 00:09:06,811
He’s expressing
his faith, eh?
238
00:09:06,813 --> 00:09:08,948
The thing is,
is that "The Simpsons"
239
00:09:08,948 --> 00:09:11,618
stereotypes all races.
240
00:09:11,618 --> 00:09:14,318
They stereotype
the alcoholic, the deadbeat dad,
241
00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,390
the "F"‐up kid,
the over‐achieving daughter.
242
00:09:17,390 --> 00:09:20,460
They stereotype Italians,
Chinese, Japanese.
243
00:09:20,460 --> 00:09:22,796
They spare no expense.
244
00:09:22,796 --> 00:09:25,456
The problem is,
is we didn’t have
245
00:09:25,465 --> 00:09:28,368
any other representation
in this country.
246
00:09:28,368 --> 00:09:32,505
There was no Aziz,
no Mindy, no Kal,
247
00:09:32,505 --> 00:09:34,505
no that dude
who was on "Lost,"
248
00:09:34,507 --> 00:09:36,376
and that other dude
from "Heroes,"
249
00:09:36,376 --> 00:09:39,106
and that dude that’s
in the Apu documentary.
250
00:09:39,112 --> 00:09:41,612
No politicians or reporters,
251
00:09:41,614 --> 00:09:45,251
and no whatever
Deepak Chopra is.
252
00:09:45,251 --> 00:09:47,420
This is all we had.
253
00:09:47,420 --> 00:09:50,056
Apu reflected
how America viewed us ‐‐
254
00:09:50,056 --> 00:09:51,416
servile...
255
00:09:51,424 --> 00:09:52,926
devious...
256
00:09:52,926 --> 00:09:54,726
goofy.
257
00:09:54,727 --> 00:09:55,857
And that creates a problem
258
00:09:55,862 --> 00:09:57,730
when the most popular show
on television,
259
00:09:57,730 --> 00:09:59,099
which it was,
260
00:09:59,099 --> 00:10:02,469
is showing
mainstream America
261
00:10:02,469 --> 00:10:04,037
what an Indian is.
Right.
262
00:10:04,037 --> 00:10:07,507
And it’s a potbellied dude
who can’t speak English,
263
00:10:07,507 --> 00:10:09,707
has zero ‐‐
is an idiot, basically.
264
00:10:09,709 --> 00:10:13,109
So, where did this walking
stereotype come from?
265
00:10:13,113 --> 00:10:16,182
I mean,
other than the gates of hell.
266
00:10:16,182 --> 00:10:17,617
I read somewhere
that Apu,
267
00:10:17,617 --> 00:10:19,417
they originally did not
want to make him
268
00:10:19,419 --> 00:10:21,949
and Indian convenience
store owner
269
00:10:21,955 --> 00:10:23,356
because they thought it was
too much of a stereotype.
270
00:10:23,356 --> 00:10:24,756
It’s completely
untrue.
271
00:10:24,757 --> 00:10:26,787
Right away they were like,
"Can you do an Indian voice,
272
00:10:26,793 --> 00:10:28,693
and how offensive
can you make it," basically.
273
00:10:28,695 --> 00:10:29,696
Really?
[ Laughter ]
274
00:10:29,696 --> 00:10:31,156
I literally ‐‐
275
00:10:31,164 --> 00:10:33,700
I would, immediately began
to talk this way and...
276
00:10:33,700 --> 00:10:36,400
And I was like, "It’s not
tremendously accurate.
277
00:10:36,402 --> 00:10:37,602
It’s a little...
stereotype."
278
00:10:37,604 --> 00:10:40,039
They’re like,
"Meh, it’s all right."
279
00:10:40,039 --> 00:10:43,309
So, Hank Azaria,
a brilliant voice‐over actor
280
00:10:43,309 --> 00:10:45,478
who does many of
"The Simpsons" characters,
281
00:10:45,478 --> 00:10:49,848
is told to do this stereotypical
voice by producers.
282
00:10:49,849 --> 00:10:51,117
Or was he?
283
00:10:51,117 --> 00:10:53,847
Reiss: Apu, he was not intended
to be a character.
284
00:10:53,853 --> 00:10:55,655
He was called "clerk."
Man: Mm‐hmm.
285
00:10:55,655 --> 00:10:58,285
He had one line,
"35 cents, please."
286
00:10:58,291 --> 00:11:01,628
And I wrote in the script,
"He is not an Indian."
287
00:11:01,628 --> 00:11:03,496
’Cause I said,
"That is a comedy cliché."
288
00:11:03,496 --> 00:11:04,756
I see, yeah.
289
00:11:04,764 --> 00:11:06,699
And we get to the table reading,
and Hank Azaria goes,
290
00:11:06,699 --> 00:11:08,699
[ Bad Indian accent ]
"35 cents, please."
291
00:11:08,701 --> 00:11:10,301
[ Normal voice ] And it got
this giant laugh,
292
00:11:10,303 --> 00:11:13,072
and, suddenly,
Apu was an Indian.
293
00:11:13,072 --> 00:11:15,542
[ Laughing ] "35 cents, please."
294
00:11:15,542 --> 00:11:19,145
Man, that is some
brilliant comedy writing.
295
00:11:19,145 --> 00:11:21,045
[ Fog horn blares ]
296
00:11:21,047 --> 00:11:22,515
So, what I do know for sure is
297
00:11:22,515 --> 00:11:26,145
that a white dude created
a stereotypical Indian voice,
298
00:11:26,152 --> 00:11:28,721
and a bunch of white writers
in a room laughed
299
00:11:28,721 --> 00:11:30,957
at said stereotypical
Indian voice.
300
00:11:30,957 --> 00:11:33,987
And this led to the creation
of my childhood bully
301
00:11:33,993 --> 00:11:37,163
and a walking insult
to my parents.
302
00:11:37,163 --> 00:11:39,265
Are you sure
you want a child, Apu?
303
00:11:39,265 --> 00:11:40,525
You know I do.
304
00:11:40,533 --> 00:11:42,202
I mean, there comes a time
in a man’s life
305
00:11:42,202 --> 00:11:43,570
when he asks himself,
306
00:11:43,570 --> 00:11:47,040
"Who will float my corpse
down the Ganges?"
307
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,570
So, that’s you guys.
308
00:11:48,575 --> 00:11:51,144
[ Clears throat ]
309
00:11:51,144 --> 00:11:53,313
Today, you look like
Apu today, somewhat.
310
00:11:53,313 --> 00:11:56,482
No, that’s not funny.
Why do I look like Apu today?
311
00:11:56,482 --> 00:11:57,882
The hair, I think.
312
00:11:57,884 --> 00:11:59,519
‐Apu hair.
‐Apu hair!
313
00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:00,719
I don’t have Apu hair.
314
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:01,750
Hey, Apu.
315
00:12:01,754 --> 00:12:02,789
Apu hair.
316
00:12:02,789 --> 00:12:04,619
[ Both laugh ]
317
00:12:04,624 --> 00:12:07,493
When you see that character,
do either of you identify
318
00:12:07,493 --> 00:12:09,062
with that character
in any way?
319
00:12:09,062 --> 00:12:09,996
No.
320
00:12:09,996 --> 00:12:11,356
I don’t think so.
321
00:12:11,364 --> 00:12:13,666
Does it bother you at all
that it’s a white actor
322
00:12:13,666 --> 00:12:14,966
that does the voice of Apu?
323
00:12:14,968 --> 00:12:18,498
Hank Azaria
is a talented guy.
324
00:12:18,504 --> 00:12:22,374
They paid him, he did it.
And he did it good.
325
00:12:22,375 --> 00:12:25,645
Why do you think you tolerate
this kind of stuff
326
00:12:25,645 --> 00:12:26,913
more than we would?
327
00:12:26,913 --> 00:12:28,982
First of all,
we came here.
328
00:12:28,982 --> 00:12:31,050
We had to succeed,
no matter what.
329
00:12:31,050 --> 00:12:33,820
It doesn’t mean that
we are not offended by it.
330
00:12:33,820 --> 00:12:36,289
Why do you feel like
we don’t tolerate it?
331
00:12:36,289 --> 00:12:37,589
Times have changed.
332
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:40,890
You have security,
and you belong here.
333
00:12:40,893 --> 00:12:42,362
You’re an American.
334
00:12:42,362 --> 00:12:44,797
So, "Simpsons" creator
Matt Groening makes
335
00:12:44,797 --> 00:12:47,297
this Indian store clerk
a series regular,
336
00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:50,570
and names him
Apu Nahasapeemapetilon.
337
00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:52,639
But where does the name
come from?
338
00:12:52,639 --> 00:12:54,939
Well, his last name,
Nahasapeemapetilon,
339
00:12:54,941 --> 00:12:58,711
comes from the Sanskrit word
for [bleep].
340
00:12:58,711 --> 00:13:01,047
And his first name, well,
I’ll let Matt explain
341
00:13:01,047 --> 00:13:02,277
why he chose "Apu."
342
00:13:02,282 --> 00:13:05,082
Groening: I named Apu
after the trilogy,
343
00:13:05,084 --> 00:13:07,153
the Apu Trilogy by Satyajit Ray.
344
00:13:07,153 --> 00:13:10,356
And I highly recommend
this series of movies ‐‐
345
00:13:10,356 --> 00:13:13,426
fantastic landmarks
in world cinema.
346
00:13:13,426 --> 00:13:15,656
Hari: Can you tell us
what the Apu Trilogy is?
347
00:13:15,662 --> 00:13:18,462
The Apu Trilogy is the story
of it’s hero,
348
00:13:18,464 --> 00:13:19,799
a young boy named Apu,
349
00:13:19,799 --> 00:13:22,468
who we follow over
the course of three films.
350
00:13:22,468 --> 00:13:25,538
You see in the course
of his life both a young man
351
00:13:25,538 --> 00:13:27,807
grow up
and actually deepen,
352
00:13:27,807 --> 00:13:31,177
but also, you see
the modernization of India.
353
00:13:32,545 --> 00:13:34,145
As someone
who’s a scholar of Ray,
354
00:13:34,147 --> 00:13:36,816
who knows those films
very well,
355
00:13:36,816 --> 00:13:39,146
how do you feel
about that choice?
356
00:13:39,152 --> 00:13:42,588
His story’s the story of
a multidimensional human being
357
00:13:42,588 --> 00:13:46,526
who grows living through pain
and tragedy and beauty.
358
00:13:46,526 --> 00:13:50,626
And to have that name then be
associated with the Apu
359
00:13:50,630 --> 00:13:52,460
of the convenience store,
360
00:13:52,465 --> 00:13:55,134
of course, is such
a huge diminishment.
361
00:13:55,134 --> 00:13:56,836
♪
362
00:13:56,836 --> 00:13:59,066
[ Screams ]
363
00:14:05,678 --> 00:14:07,178
Hari: And even though
Matt Groening
364
00:14:07,180 --> 00:14:08,310
created "The Simpsons,"
365
00:14:08,314 --> 00:14:10,550
it’s Hank Azaria
who does the voice
366
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:12,885
and can literally silence Apu.
367
00:14:12,885 --> 00:14:15,615
I was feeling hopeful I could
get Hank to speak to me,
368
00:14:15,621 --> 00:14:18,921
especially since he had
spoken about this once before
369
00:14:18,925 --> 00:14:21,761
in a Huffington Post article
from 2013,
370
00:14:21,761 --> 00:14:24,430
entitled,
"Is It Time to Retire Apu?"
371
00:14:24,430 --> 00:14:25,830
by Mallika Rao.
372
00:14:25,832 --> 00:14:29,569
When you spoke to Hank Azaria,
was there a defensiveness?
373
00:14:29,569 --> 00:14:32,299
For the first time,
he wants to talk about
374
00:14:32,305 --> 00:14:35,074
how he feels uncomfortable
with the voice.
375
00:14:35,074 --> 00:14:36,476
Did he do Apu
over the phone?
376
00:14:36,476 --> 00:14:37,776
He did briefly.
377
00:14:37,777 --> 00:14:41,077
He‐He talked about
how the voice is very musical.
378
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:42,548
He did the accent.
379
00:14:42,548 --> 00:14:43,778
He mentioned you ‐‐
380
00:14:43,783 --> 00:14:45,151
Well, he didn’t know
your name,
381
00:14:45,151 --> 00:14:47,651
but he said that there was
an Indian comic
382
00:14:47,653 --> 00:14:53,092
who he’d seen a video of,
who just went off on Apu.
383
00:14:53,092 --> 00:14:55,762
Had he not thought about it
until he saw my bit?
384
00:14:55,762 --> 00:14:57,029
Right. He hadn’t, so...
385
00:14:57,029 --> 00:14:58,859
So, for, like, 20 ‐‐
At that point, maybe, like,
386
00:14:58,865 --> 00:15:01,234
21, 22 years,
387
00:15:01,234 --> 00:15:02,969
he had not thought
about it?
388
00:15:02,969 --> 00:15:04,969
He hadn’t
thought about it
389
00:15:04,971 --> 00:15:09,108
from the perspective
of a real Apu,
390
00:15:09,108 --> 00:15:11,377
and real Indian person.
391
00:15:11,377 --> 00:15:14,347
So Hank has
thought about this.
392
00:15:14,347 --> 00:15:18,777
And if I got to Hank before,
I’m sure I can get to him again.
393
00:15:20,686 --> 00:15:22,786
♪
394
00:15:22,789 --> 00:15:24,919
Hari: To understand
my quest to get rid of Apu,
395
00:15:24,924 --> 00:15:26,826
you need to understand
the complicated
396
00:15:26,826 --> 00:15:28,386
and diverse experiences
397
00:15:28,394 --> 00:15:30,596
of Southasian‐Americans
in this country.
398
00:15:30,596 --> 00:15:33,496
♪
399
00:15:33,499 --> 00:15:35,129
I spent the first nine years
of my life
400
00:15:35,134 --> 00:15:36,436
in Jackson Heights, Queens ‐‐
401
00:15:36,436 --> 00:15:39,336
the most diverse part
of the most diverse borough
402
00:15:39,338 --> 00:15:41,307
of the most diverse city
in the world.
403
00:15:41,307 --> 00:15:43,137
It is my favorite place
404
00:15:43,142 --> 00:15:46,579
and every white supremacist’s
nightmare.
405
00:15:46,579 --> 00:15:49,579
I grew up near 74th Street
in what’s called "Little India."
406
00:15:49,582 --> 00:15:51,582
But to be fair, this isn’t
actually Little India.
407
00:15:51,584 --> 00:15:53,886
It’s more Little Southasia
’cause you have people
408
00:15:53,886 --> 00:15:55,686
from all over the region here,
409
00:15:55,688 --> 00:15:58,318
whether that be India
or Pakistan
410
00:15:58,324 --> 00:16:01,327
or Sri Lanka,
Bangladesh, Nepal,
411
00:16:01,327 --> 00:16:02,627
Buton, or the Maldives,
412
00:16:02,628 --> 00:16:05,758
and sometimes
Tibet and Afghanistan.
413
00:16:05,765 --> 00:16:09,101
The borders kind of change
depending on political reasons
414
00:16:09,101 --> 00:16:10,801
or who the U. S. is bombing
415
00:16:10,803 --> 00:16:12,338
at that particular moment.
416
00:16:12,338 --> 00:16:15,768
Afghanistan has since been
moved to the Middle East.
417
00:16:15,775 --> 00:16:18,311
But all these countries have
different make ups, right?
418
00:16:18,311 --> 00:16:21,848
They have different languages
and cultures and religions.
419
00:16:21,848 --> 00:16:23,948
But when you grow up
in this country,
420
00:16:23,950 --> 00:16:25,418
it doesn’t really matter
421
00:16:25,418 --> 00:16:27,587
’cause you’re still
gonna be called Apu.
422
00:16:27,587 --> 00:16:31,087
Well, look! It is Mr. Homer,
my favorite customer.
423
00:16:31,090 --> 00:16:33,659
Please, feel free to paw
through my Playdudes
424
00:16:33,659 --> 00:16:34,789
and tell me to go back
425
00:16:34,794 --> 00:16:36,662
to some country
I am not actually from.
426
00:16:36,662 --> 00:16:38,731
He sort of does
the stand‐in work
427
00:16:38,731 --> 00:16:41,067
for a lot of different
kinds of issues
428
00:16:41,067 --> 00:16:43,467
related
to immigration and race.
429
00:16:43,469 --> 00:16:45,738
Every time there was
a certain kind of focus
430
00:16:45,738 --> 00:16:47,807
on Apu’s character
in relationship
431
00:16:47,807 --> 00:16:49,775
to some kind
of universal norm,
432
00:16:49,775 --> 00:16:53,245
the way in which they talked
about it was usually
433
00:16:53,246 --> 00:16:56,816
in a particular
stereotypical way.
434
00:16:56,816 --> 00:16:59,816
If there was an episode
that was on marriage,
435
00:16:59,819 --> 00:17:03,089
Apu, of course, had to have
the arranged marriage.
436
00:17:03,089 --> 00:17:04,519
Then it is agreed.
437
00:17:04,524 --> 00:17:08,694
Your third daughter
will marry our first son.
438
00:17:08,694 --> 00:17:12,131
If there was an episode
on having children,
439
00:17:12,131 --> 00:17:14,667
then Apu had to have
eight children.
440
00:17:14,667 --> 00:17:16,297
My whaaaat?
441
00:17:16,302 --> 00:17:19,338
Stereotypes
have a long half‐life.
442
00:17:19,338 --> 00:17:21,168
They tend to last
for a while
443
00:17:21,173 --> 00:17:24,110
unless we are committed to
444
00:17:24,110 --> 00:17:26,479
and good at telling
our own story.
445
00:17:26,479 --> 00:17:30,149
Is it weird that we’re talking
about Indian stereotypes
446
00:17:30,149 --> 00:17:32,218
and you’re
an Indian doctor?
447
00:17:32,218 --> 00:17:34,448
Is that strange
in the slightest to you?
448
00:17:34,453 --> 00:17:35,753
Hari:
But getting an honest story
449
00:17:35,755 --> 00:17:39,358
into the mainstream
is incredibly difficult.
450
00:17:39,358 --> 00:17:42,928
Good morning...
It’s Wednesday!
451
00:17:42,929 --> 00:17:44,797
Or Hump Day, according
to Jizzy and the Wiz
452
00:17:44,797 --> 00:17:46,997
on 102.7, "The Octopus,"
453
00:17:46,999 --> 00:17:51,899
Rancho Cucamonga’s number‐one
all‐’80s rock station!
454
00:17:51,904 --> 00:17:53,306
Rao: This is
a father‐son story.
455
00:17:53,306 --> 00:17:55,536
This is really about how you
dealt with these two cultures ‐‐
456
00:17:55,541 --> 00:17:57,141
this Indian household
that were living in
457
00:17:57,143 --> 00:17:59,078
and this American culture that
you were now a part of.
458
00:17:59,078 --> 00:18:00,508
We were in a meeting
at Fox one day,
459
00:18:00,513 --> 00:18:01,647
and everybody had
to stand up
460
00:18:01,647 --> 00:18:04,547
and say what their role was
on the pilot.
461
00:18:04,550 --> 00:18:06,519
So, "Hi, I’m so‐and‐so.
I’m Executive Producer."
462
00:18:06,519 --> 00:18:09,455
"Hi, I’m so‐and‐so.
I’m the script supervisor."
463
00:18:09,455 --> 00:18:12,415
I stood up and I go, "Hi,
Rohitash Rao, and I’m Indian."
464
00:18:12,425 --> 00:18:13,859
That’s all I had to say,
465
00:18:13,859 --> 00:18:15,389
’cause I was the only one
in the room
466
00:18:15,394 --> 00:18:16,562
that could say that.
Ooh.
467
00:18:16,562 --> 00:18:18,097
And I looked around
the room and I’m like,
468
00:18:18,097 --> 00:18:19,697
"What are we getting into?
469
00:18:19,699 --> 00:18:22,399
How are we making
an Indian show right now?"
470
00:18:22,401 --> 00:18:23,936
Like, "How are we together?
471
00:18:23,936 --> 00:18:25,196
How is this gonna work?"
472
00:18:25,204 --> 00:18:27,773
And from that moment, I’m like,
"I think we’re [bleep]"
473
00:18:27,773 --> 00:18:31,143
There’s this idea that,
okay, well,
474
00:18:31,143 --> 00:18:33,980
if there’s four white people,
anybody will watch it.
475
00:18:33,980 --> 00:18:35,548
That’s mainstream.
That’s accessible.
Right.
476
00:18:35,548 --> 00:18:39,418
But if it’s four Asian people
or four black people,
477
00:18:39,418 --> 00:18:41,118
it becomes like,
"Oh, this is a black show,"
478
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:42,488
or, "This is a black movie."
479
00:18:42,488 --> 00:18:44,818
I guess it just boils down
to, like, why is it that
480
00:18:44,824 --> 00:18:46,092
when there’s a show
full of white people,
481
00:18:46,092 --> 00:18:48,127
that’s considered
okay and mainstream?
482
00:18:48,127 --> 00:18:50,096
Right.
If it’s
funny and interesting,
483
00:18:50,096 --> 00:18:53,026
I don’t really care
who’s in it, you know.
484
00:18:53,032 --> 00:18:56,168
We watch animated movies
that are about fish.
485
00:18:56,168 --> 00:18:57,236
[ Chuckling ] Right.
486
00:18:57,236 --> 00:18:59,036
What bothered me most about Apu
487
00:18:59,038 --> 00:19:01,438
was the way he stood in
for my parents,
488
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,809
replacing their real stories,
their real struggles,
489
00:19:03,809 --> 00:19:05,939
and their really
complicated lives
490
00:19:05,945 --> 00:19:08,147
with a [bleep] accent.
491
00:19:08,147 --> 00:19:10,016
My dad was an English major,
so his command
492
00:19:10,016 --> 00:19:11,446
of the English language
was ridiculous.
493
00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:13,019
And so he wanted to
be a writer.
494
00:19:13,019 --> 00:19:16,519
My dad wrote,
sent in his application,
495
00:19:16,522 --> 00:19:18,057
and, you know,
they see "Eric Peters"
496
00:19:18,057 --> 00:19:19,887
and they read it
and how well written it is,
497
00:19:19,892 --> 00:19:21,160
They’re like, "Oh, perfect.
498
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,129
Let’s bring this guy in."
My dad walked in.
499
00:19:23,129 --> 00:19:24,529
My dad looked very
much like you.
500
00:19:24,530 --> 00:19:26,766
They’re like, "Sorry, sir.
The job’s been filled."
501
00:19:26,766 --> 00:19:29,466
And then he just had to take
a job as a meat inspector
502
00:19:29,468 --> 00:19:30,768
for the rest of his life,
you know.
503
00:19:30,770 --> 00:19:33,606
My mom, who grew up
in a middle‐class family,
504
00:19:33,606 --> 00:19:35,006
but that was very ‐‐
in a society
505
00:19:35,007 --> 00:19:36,807
that was very
male‐dominated in India
506
00:19:36,809 --> 00:19:40,309
and about what it took for her
to get her own education.
507
00:19:40,312 --> 00:19:42,748
When I was growing up,
I found it really embarrassing
508
00:19:42,748 --> 00:19:44,348
that my dad wanted to spend
so much time with us
509
00:19:44,350 --> 00:19:45,850
to the point
where my dad became
510
00:19:45,851 --> 00:19:48,387
the baseball coach
of my little league team.
511
00:19:48,387 --> 00:19:51,017
My dad didn’t know baseball.
He knew cricket.
512
00:19:51,023 --> 00:19:52,823
So, he would teach us
how to play cricket.
513
00:19:52,825 --> 00:19:53,826
[ Chuckles ]
514
00:19:53,826 --> 00:19:55,926
So, we’re trying
to swing a bat
515
00:19:55,928 --> 00:19:57,958
like a golf club,
you know?
516
00:19:57,963 --> 00:19:59,565
Telling the pitcher
to bounce the ball over.
517
00:19:59,565 --> 00:20:01,765
Yeah, look back,
and I realize it was only
518
00:20:01,767 --> 00:20:02,997
because it was
out of love.
519
00:20:03,002 --> 00:20:04,336
He wanted to spend time
with his son.
520
00:20:04,336 --> 00:20:05,696
That’s why he did it.
521
00:20:05,705 --> 00:20:07,807
At the same time, I should say,
we were a pretty good team
522
00:20:07,807 --> 00:20:09,307
because we could catch
with our bare hands.
523
00:20:09,308 --> 00:20:11,077
[ Laughs ]
Like,
we got to be pretty good.
524
00:20:11,077 --> 00:20:12,637
Our parents are heroes.
525
00:20:12,645 --> 00:20:15,781
And there are millions
of other immigrants like them
526
00:20:15,781 --> 00:20:19,218
how came over in the face
of incredible uncertainty,
527
00:20:19,218 --> 00:20:21,787
taking incredible risk,
528
00:20:21,787 --> 00:20:24,056
to build a life
in a new country.
529
00:20:24,056 --> 00:20:25,986
♪
530
00:20:25,991 --> 00:20:28,227
Racist depictions
of minority groups
531
00:20:28,227 --> 00:20:31,857
is as American as...racism.
532
00:20:31,864 --> 00:20:34,300
From advertising
to political cartoons
533
00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:35,700
to vaudeville to...
534
00:20:35,701 --> 00:20:38,001
Meet me at the zoo
in the morning at 9:00.
535
00:20:38,003 --> 00:20:39,739
Yeah, with the rest
of the monkeys?
536
00:20:39,739 --> 00:20:40,806
With the rest
of the monkeys.
537
00:20:40,806 --> 00:20:42,936
Yeah, I’ll bring
my grandpa with me.
538
00:20:42,942 --> 00:20:44,910
Dear God!
539
00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:47,880
I decided I needed to talk
to an expert on the matter,
540
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,080
someone with an EGOT.
541
00:20:51,083 --> 00:20:52,752
[ Sips ]
542
00:20:52,752 --> 00:20:56,889
Can you define minstrelsy
and briefly discuss,
543
00:20:56,889 --> 00:20:58,689
like, the history
of minstrelsy?
544
00:20:58,691 --> 00:21:02,027
Minstrel shows began
545
00:21:02,027 --> 00:21:03,896
when white people decided
546
00:21:03,896 --> 00:21:05,596
they wanted to be able
to do the cake walk.
547
00:21:05,598 --> 00:21:08,898
Because there were not
black folks on stage,
548
00:21:08,901 --> 00:21:10,701
so white people dressed
as black people
549
00:21:10,703 --> 00:21:12,271
and put on
the blackface.
550
00:21:12,271 --> 00:21:13,606
I wanted to ask you
551
00:21:13,606 --> 00:21:15,706
about your collection
of black Americana.
552
00:21:15,708 --> 00:21:17,376
You have a very
large personal collection.
553
00:21:17,376 --> 00:21:18,836
I call it Negrobilia.
554
00:21:18,844 --> 00:21:20,679
A lot of racist imagery.
Mm‐hmm.
555
00:21:20,679 --> 00:21:22,079
It’s blackface.
Yeah.
556
00:21:22,081 --> 00:21:27,286
It’s clearly stuff that was made
to mock black people.
557
00:21:27,286 --> 00:21:29,216
I don’t even think
it was that deep.
558
00:21:29,221 --> 00:21:30,821
Really?
Yeah.
559
00:21:30,823 --> 00:21:34,927
I have this thing
from the Coon Chicken Inn.
560
00:21:34,927 --> 00:21:36,996
That was the name
of a restaurant.
561
00:21:36,996 --> 00:21:38,396
I don’t think
they were thinking,
562
00:21:38,397 --> 00:21:41,367
"Oh, we gonna get ’em now!"
[ Laughs ]
563
00:21:41,367 --> 00:21:43,936
I think they were like,
"That’s funny."
564
00:21:43,936 --> 00:21:45,666
What else
is in the collection?
565
00:21:45,671 --> 00:21:49,008
One of my favorite
is a German postcard.
566
00:21:49,008 --> 00:21:51,608
There’s a little white girl,
a little white boy,
567
00:21:51,610 --> 00:21:54,480
and this other little blackface
is in the middle.
568
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,948
And she says to him,
569
00:21:55,948 --> 00:21:57,948
"Lick him
and see if he’s chocolate."
570
00:21:57,950 --> 00:21:59,580
[ Gasps ]
571
00:21:59,585 --> 00:22:02,988
If you’ve never
seen black people...
572
00:22:02,988 --> 00:22:04,918
we look chocolate.
573
00:22:04,924 --> 00:22:06,058
So, you’re telling me
there might’ve been
574
00:22:06,058 --> 00:22:07,626
an epidemic at some point,
575
00:22:07,626 --> 00:22:10,356
where people were
licking black people to see
576
00:22:10,362 --> 00:22:11,562
if they tasted like chocolate?
Yeah.
577
00:22:11,564 --> 00:22:13,599
And if you
played your cards right,
578
00:22:13,599 --> 00:22:15,099
you could make it
work for you, too.
579
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:17,636
[ Laughs ]
580
00:22:17,636 --> 00:22:20,136
And I’m a big believer
in facing it.
581
00:22:20,139 --> 00:22:22,169
You’ve got to see
what it was.
582
00:22:22,174 --> 00:22:24,443
So that’s why you have
the collection.
Yeah.
583
00:22:24,443 --> 00:22:26,478
But it doesn’t horrify you
when you see it?
584
00:22:26,478 --> 00:22:30,015
No, no. No.
Not at all?
585
00:22:30,015 --> 00:22:35,385
No, because when you deal
with ignorance,
586
00:22:35,387 --> 00:22:36,617
how can you be
pissed off?
587
00:22:36,622 --> 00:22:37,957
They don’t know
any better.
588
00:22:37,957 --> 00:22:39,017
They’re trying
to make a living.
589
00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:41,193
They’re making cookie jars.
590
00:22:41,193 --> 00:22:42,828
Hari:
But Hank isn’t ignorant.
591
00:22:42,828 --> 00:22:44,897
He knows
there’s a problem with Apu,
592
00:22:44,897 --> 00:22:47,266
yet he still does this.
593
00:22:47,266 --> 00:22:49,396
[ As Apu ] Remember, please,
children, that in life,
594
00:22:49,401 --> 00:22:52,571
there is nothing that is
not so disgusting
595
00:22:52,571 --> 00:22:54,840
that it cannot be sold
on a heated roller
596
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,675
at a nearly
criminal mark‐up.
597
00:22:56,675 --> 00:22:58,905
[ Laughter ]
598
00:22:58,911 --> 00:23:01,580
Based on your definition
of minstrelsy,
599
00:23:01,580 --> 00:23:03,549
does Apu count as a minstrel
600
00:23:03,549 --> 00:23:05,149
since it’s brown paint,
601
00:23:05,150 --> 00:23:06,418
a white guy’s voice?
602
00:23:06,418 --> 00:23:08,487
I would say so,
603
00:23:08,487 --> 00:23:10,317
but he’s not
singing and dancing, is he?
604
00:23:10,322 --> 00:23:11,422
Aah!
605
00:23:11,423 --> 00:23:13,325
♪ Who needs the Kwik‐E‐Mart ♪
606
00:23:13,325 --> 00:23:15,455
♪ Now, here’s the tricky part ♪
607
00:23:15,461 --> 00:23:18,697
♪ Oh, won’t you rhyme with me? ♪
608
00:23:18,697 --> 00:23:19,827
Yeah, there’s ‐‐
there’s ‐‐
609
00:23:19,832 --> 00:23:21,432
Okay, then, he’s in
the minstrel show, too.
610
00:23:21,433 --> 00:23:22,501
[ Laughs ]
611
00:23:22,501 --> 00:23:24,136
If he’s singing and dancing,
he’s in.
612
00:23:24,136 --> 00:23:25,036
He has
all the qualifications.
613
00:23:25,037 --> 00:23:26,705
He has
all the qualifications.
614
00:23:26,705 --> 00:23:30,105
Maybe if Hank realized Apu is
no different than this
615
00:23:30,109 --> 00:23:31,509
or this...
616
00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:33,210
or this,
617
00:23:33,212 --> 00:23:36,782
he might, I don’t know, stop.
618
00:23:36,782 --> 00:23:38,717
We needed to talk
to Hank Azaria.
619
00:23:38,717 --> 00:23:40,917
And, luckily, I have agents.
620
00:23:42,421 --> 00:23:44,521
Hey, man. It’s Hari.
Agent: Hey, Hari.
621
00:23:44,523 --> 00:23:47,826
Yeah, I was just wondering
if we have any news about Hank,
622
00:23:47,826 --> 00:23:50,526
like, if anyone has said
anything from his camp
623
00:23:50,529 --> 00:23:52,097
about, like,
doing the film.
624
00:23:52,097 --> 00:23:54,566
Yeah, check your e‐mail.
You sent me an e‐mail?
625
00:23:54,566 --> 00:23:56,766
Uh‐huh.
You’re gonna want to read it.
626
00:23:56,769 --> 00:24:00,105
Okay, so, it’s a forward
from his publicist.
627
00:24:00,105 --> 00:24:04,675
"Hank wanted me to
pass this article on to you."
628
00:24:06,011 --> 00:24:08,280
And it’s the same
Huff‐Po article
629
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,648
that me and him were
both quoted in,
630
00:24:09,648 --> 00:24:10,648
like, three years ago.
631
00:24:10,649 --> 00:24:12,318
So he’s, basically,
saying that
632
00:24:12,318 --> 00:24:13,886
he doesn’t want to
do the film
633
00:24:13,886 --> 00:24:16,555
and he’s not gonna
talk about it anymore.
634
00:24:16,555 --> 00:24:18,655
You okay?
No, I’m fine.
635
00:24:18,657 --> 00:24:20,387
You sure?
No, I’m okay.
636
00:24:20,392 --> 00:24:21,827
No, I’m okay.
I’m fine.
637
00:24:21,827 --> 00:24:23,495
Look, we’ll give him a beep...
Yeah.
638
00:24:23,495 --> 00:24:24,755
...and we’ll figure out
the next steps.
639
00:24:24,763 --> 00:24:26,765
Okay. Bye.
640
00:24:26,765 --> 00:24:29,895
♪
641
00:24:37,176 --> 00:24:38,706
[ Banging, rattling ]
642
00:24:38,711 --> 00:24:40,911
Hari: [bleep] [bleep] [bleep]
643
00:24:43,415 --> 00:24:44,945
[Bleep]
644
00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:51,060
♪
645
00:24:52,758 --> 00:24:55,027
Hari: Well, it’s been months,
646
00:24:55,027 --> 00:24:57,627
and Hank Azaria appears to be
ignoring my requests
647
00:24:57,629 --> 00:24:59,759
to talk about Apu on camera.
648
00:24:59,765 --> 00:25:01,433
If I don’t get him
to retire the voice,
649
00:25:01,433 --> 00:25:03,602
this whole thing is a failure!
650
00:25:03,602 --> 00:25:07,339
And by thing, I might
possibly mean my career.
651
00:25:07,339 --> 00:25:09,539
So I decided
to "Politically Re‐Active,"
652
00:25:09,541 --> 00:25:11,010
my podcast with Kamau,
653
00:25:11,010 --> 00:25:13,310
to sic my fans on Hank.
654
00:25:13,312 --> 00:25:15,512
Bell: So, Hari, you’re working
on something too, aren’t you?
655
00:25:15,514 --> 00:25:18,283
Yes, I am, Kamau.
Thank you for asking.
656
00:25:18,283 --> 00:25:22,221
I’m making a documentary
about Apu from "The Simpsons,"
657
00:25:22,221 --> 00:25:24,790
which I am
very excited about.
658
00:25:24,790 --> 00:25:26,790
We’re trying to get Hank Azaria
to be in the film.
659
00:25:26,792 --> 00:25:28,227
He’s the voice of Apu.
660
00:25:28,227 --> 00:25:31,427
Tweet @HankAzaria that he
should be in my movie, right.
661
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:34,430
Sample tweet ‐‐
Dear @HankAzaria, please talk
662
00:25:34,433 --> 00:25:37,903
to @HariKonadabolu about Apu
for his documentary
663
00:25:37,903 --> 00:25:40,773
#Apu2016.
664
00:25:40,773 --> 00:25:42,241
Now, let’s get
this thing trending.
665
00:25:42,241 --> 00:25:43,741
Let’s see if Hank will be
in this movie.
666
00:25:43,742 --> 00:25:45,342
Are you sure
you don’t wanna come?
667
00:25:45,344 --> 00:25:46,745
In a Civil War
re‐enactment,
668
00:25:46,745 --> 00:25:48,605
we need lots of Indians
to shoot.
669
00:25:48,614 --> 00:25:52,351
I don’t know which part of that
sentence to correct first.
670
00:25:52,351 --> 00:25:54,851
There was a guy, the year after
"Harold & Kumar" came out.
671
00:25:54,853 --> 00:25:56,422
I was walking down the street.
He was kind of drunk.
672
00:25:56,422 --> 00:25:59,222
He stumbled out of a bar,
Indian guy, and he goes,
673
00:25:59,224 --> 00:26:03,862
"Hey, I get called Kumar
all the time because of you."
674
00:26:03,862 --> 00:26:05,631
And I just looked at him
and was like,
675
00:26:05,631 --> 00:26:07,800
"It’s better than Apu,
isn’t it?"
Yeah, right.
676
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,268
And he goes, "Yeah.
677
00:26:09,268 --> 00:26:10,836
Yeah!"
678
00:26:10,836 --> 00:26:15,406
Can you name any other, like,
famous Indian‐Americans?
679
00:26:15,407 --> 00:26:16,437
There was ‐‐
680
00:26:16,442 --> 00:26:18,710
But he wasn’t even
East Indian.
681
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:20,510
It was the actor
from Johnny 5.
682
00:26:22,481 --> 00:26:25,117
Is that a yes or the number of
your intelligence quotient, hmm?
683
00:26:25,117 --> 00:26:26,685
But he wasn’t even
East Indian.
684
00:26:26,685 --> 00:26:27,985
No, Fisher Stevens.
685
00:26:27,986 --> 00:26:30,686
I found out he wasn’t Indian
three years ago.
Yeah!
686
00:26:30,689 --> 00:26:32,689
I mean, you never had
the feeling that,
687
00:26:32,691 --> 00:26:34,026
like, at least
we have something?
688
00:26:34,026 --> 00:26:35,086
With Apu?
Yeah.
689
00:26:35,094 --> 00:26:36,361
Hell, no!
Never?
690
00:26:36,361 --> 00:26:37,496
No, it’s the same as
691
00:26:37,496 --> 00:26:38,756
"Indiana Jones
and the Temple of Doom."
692
00:26:38,764 --> 00:26:39,832
How many white folks
in brownface,
693
00:26:39,832 --> 00:26:41,732
eating monkey brains
are you gonna deal with?
694
00:26:41,733 --> 00:26:45,043
♪
695
00:26:46,572 --> 00:26:48,942
Chilled monkey brains.
696
00:26:52,211 --> 00:26:54,146
Are there any roles
you regret?
697
00:26:54,146 --> 00:26:55,476
No.
None?
698
00:26:55,481 --> 00:26:57,381
Let me think before I actually
answer that question.
699
00:26:57,382 --> 00:26:58,782
I’m so used to doing
these interviews
700
00:26:58,784 --> 00:27:00,252
where that’s where
you’re supposed to say.
Yeah.
701
00:27:00,252 --> 00:27:02,121
Hari:
If you’re a Southasian‐American
702
00:27:02,121 --> 00:27:03,856
and you dream of being an actor,
703
00:27:03,856 --> 00:27:05,786
your choices are pretty limited.
704
00:27:05,791 --> 00:27:07,191
You either portray
your community
705
00:27:07,192 --> 00:27:09,928
as one‐dimensional
with hopes of better work,
706
00:27:09,928 --> 00:27:11,728
or you let
somebody else do it.
707
00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:15,430
It begs the question,
is it better to be clowned
708
00:27:15,434 --> 00:27:17,002
or to clown yourself?
709
00:27:17,002 --> 00:27:19,702
I had a bread‐and‐butter role
that I did for years,
710
00:27:19,705 --> 00:27:23,142
which was the weeping
ethnic mom
711
00:27:23,142 --> 00:27:26,645
of potential rapist
or murderers.
712
00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:29,375
It is a mother’s duty
to protect her son!
713
00:27:29,381 --> 00:27:32,781
I was playing Achmed,
the foreign‐exchange student.
714
00:27:32,784 --> 00:27:37,189
And I was wearing a turban
and eating fried camel,
715
00:27:37,189 --> 00:27:40,325
doing these kind of, like,
weird Indian dances.
716
00:27:40,325 --> 00:27:46,355
From, like, 1991 till,
like, ’96, ’97,
717
00:27:46,365 --> 00:27:48,600
is all just,
literally, cabbie,
718
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,300
cabbie, cabbie, deli,
deli, deli...
719
00:27:51,303 --> 00:27:52,343
[ Chuckles ]
720
00:27:54,339 --> 00:27:55,607
...doctor.
721
00:27:55,607 --> 00:27:57,276
One of the first movies I did
was a movie called
722
00:27:57,276 --> 00:27:59,236
"Van Wilder"
with Ryan Reynolds,
723
00:27:59,244 --> 00:28:01,847
and I played
an Indian exchange student.
724
00:28:01,847 --> 00:28:04,677
And I remember very clearly
getting a phone call
725
00:28:04,683 --> 00:28:06,985
from my agent at the time,
and she said,
726
00:28:06,985 --> 00:28:08,815
"Hey, I’ve got
this audition for you.
727
00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:10,620
It’s a supporting lead
in a movie."
728
00:28:10,622 --> 00:28:13,792
She goes, "Okay,
the character’s name...
729
00:28:13,792 --> 00:28:14,792
is Taj Mahal.
730
00:28:14,793 --> 00:28:17,229
I’m Taj...Mahal.
731
00:28:17,229 --> 00:28:19,998
And I hung up the phone,
and she calls me back.
732
00:28:19,998 --> 00:28:21,867
And she’s like, "I knew
you were gonna do that."
I’m like, "Well, yeah!"
733
00:28:21,867 --> 00:28:23,867
I mean, I didn’t major
in Theater and Film
734
00:28:23,869 --> 00:28:26,069
to play Taj Mahal.
Right.
735
00:28:26,071 --> 00:28:29,208
She said, "Look, it’s almost
impossible for me
736
00:28:29,208 --> 00:28:31,808
to sell you
without any credits ‐‐
737
00:28:31,810 --> 00:28:33,310
any legitimate credits
on your resumé.
738
00:28:33,312 --> 00:28:34,712
And I know that
you probably won’t want
739
00:28:34,713 --> 00:28:36,248
to do something like this,
but I would really
740
00:28:36,248 --> 00:28:37,716
strongly urge you
to take a look at it."
741
00:28:37,716 --> 00:28:41,546
Was there ever any hesitation
when you were asked to do
742
00:28:41,553 --> 00:28:42,988
an Indian accent
in the casting room?
743
00:28:42,988 --> 00:28:44,418
I always thought to myself,
like, "Look,
744
00:28:44,423 --> 00:28:45,723
if this is
a really cool part,
745
00:28:45,724 --> 00:28:47,359
if the guy happens to be
an Indian guy,
746
00:28:47,359 --> 00:28:49,859
if I take the part,
I accept the responsibility
747
00:28:49,861 --> 00:28:51,261
of lending the character
748
00:28:51,263 --> 00:28:53,031
more dignity
than what’s written there,
749
00:28:53,031 --> 00:28:54,566
and to be able
to challenge the director
750
00:28:54,566 --> 00:28:55,766
and the creatives
751
00:28:55,767 --> 00:28:58,197
and, hopefully, not be
fired for that."
752
00:28:58,203 --> 00:29:01,740
So, how easily can something
turn into a racist meme?
753
00:29:01,740 --> 00:29:04,140
Well, despite only being
said eight times
754
00:29:04,142 --> 00:29:06,642
over the entire course
of "The Simpsons" history,
755
00:29:06,645 --> 00:29:07,913
"Thank you, come again"
756
00:29:07,913 --> 00:29:09,413
has haunted Indian children
757
00:29:09,414 --> 00:29:11,583
for over a quarter century.
758
00:29:11,583 --> 00:29:12,883
Why?
759
00:29:12,884 --> 00:29:14,953
It’s funny because it’s racist.
760
00:29:14,953 --> 00:29:17,155
Uh...this could
take a while, folks.
761
00:29:17,155 --> 00:29:18,585
Thank you, come again.
762
00:29:18,590 --> 00:29:20,790
How would you
define "patanking"
763
00:29:20,792 --> 00:29:22,592
if you were to explain
what that means?
764
00:29:22,594 --> 00:29:27,132
Patanking is
being asked to speak
765
00:29:27,132 --> 00:29:31,370
in a broad Indian accent
with broad acting.
766
00:29:31,370 --> 00:29:33,138
[ Exaggerated Indian accent ]
They want the accent
to sound like this,
767
00:29:33,138 --> 00:29:35,368
and they want your tongue to be
really pulled back.
768
00:29:35,374 --> 00:29:37,175
[ Exaggerated Indian accent ]
So, patanking was going
into a room
769
00:29:37,175 --> 00:29:39,535
and having to do that
exact thing in front of people,
770
00:29:39,544 --> 00:29:40,379
like a monkey.
771
00:29:40,379 --> 00:29:42,249
[ Chittering ]
772
00:29:44,683 --> 00:29:47,386
This voice has caused
so much trouble.
773
00:29:47,386 --> 00:29:49,086
So, how did Hank
come up with it?
774
00:29:49,087 --> 00:29:51,356
When I first moved to L. A.,
775
00:29:51,356 --> 00:29:54,786
most of the 7‐Eleven guys were
Indian and Pakistani.
776
00:29:54,793 --> 00:29:56,328
Then also, Peter Sellers
in "The Party,"
777
00:29:56,328 --> 00:29:58,628
one of my favorite
performances ever.
778
00:29:58,630 --> 00:29:59,960
Sir, excuse me.
779
00:29:59,965 --> 00:30:01,933
What is the name of a game
780
00:30:01,933 --> 00:30:04,569
that has a multitude
of colored balls like that?
781
00:30:04,569 --> 00:30:05,869
Pool.
Poo?
782
00:30:05,871 --> 00:30:07,205
What?
Poo?
783
00:30:07,205 --> 00:30:09,005
No, not poo. Pool.
784
00:30:09,007 --> 00:30:10,876
Pool. Pool!
Pool! Now you got it.
785
00:30:10,876 --> 00:30:12,406
Ah! Oh, like swimming pool.
You got it, honey.
786
00:30:12,411 --> 00:30:14,511
I never heard of a game
called Poo.
787
00:30:14,513 --> 00:30:16,013
You know, I’ve since learned
788
00:30:16,014 --> 00:30:18,283
that a lot
of Southern Asian people,
789
00:30:18,283 --> 00:30:22,187
found that Peter Sellers
portrayal fairly offensive.
790
00:30:22,187 --> 00:30:23,447
No [bleep]
791
00:30:23,455 --> 00:30:24,823
What, did you get
Inspector Clouseau
792
00:30:24,823 --> 00:30:26,692
to help you solve that mystery?
793
00:30:26,692 --> 00:30:28,226
[ Chuckles ]
Inspector Clouseau.
794
00:30:28,226 --> 00:30:30,456
That’s Peter Sellers.
795
00:30:30,462 --> 00:30:33,062
♪
796
00:30:33,065 --> 00:30:37,302
How different is
a Southasian actor patanking
797
00:30:37,302 --> 00:30:40,872
versus, like,
Hank Azaria doing that voice?
798
00:30:40,872 --> 00:30:42,607
Because as
a Southasian actor,
799
00:30:42,607 --> 00:30:45,207
it is part
of my cultural heritage.
800
00:30:45,210 --> 00:30:47,679
Hmm.
It’s part of,
like, what I ‐‐
801
00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:49,348
what I ow‐‐ It’s mine.
802
00:30:49,348 --> 00:30:52,778
So, like, a white guy doing it
sort of feels like
803
00:30:52,784 --> 00:30:57,222
you’re...
usurping my culture.
804
00:30:57,222 --> 00:30:58,890
An invasion.
A kind of exploitation,
805
00:30:58,890 --> 00:31:03,628
but also kind of like
using it to further a narrative
806
00:31:03,628 --> 00:31:06,098
within sort of
the larger culture
807
00:31:06,098 --> 00:31:08,066
about me and my people.
808
00:31:08,066 --> 00:31:09,466
You’re never gonna see
two Indians guys in a club
809
00:31:09,468 --> 00:31:14,568
standing around going,
"Hey, man. Aren’t we cool?
810
00:31:14,573 --> 00:31:17,008
Don’t we sound really hip?"
811
00:31:17,008 --> 00:31:19,138
To a lot of people, I think,
you’re known for,
812
00:31:19,144 --> 00:31:20,679
like, incredible accents.
813
00:31:20,679 --> 00:31:23,879
And you’ve done them
throughout your career.
814
00:31:23,882 --> 00:31:27,052
There is a criticism of, like,
"How come he uses accents?
815
00:31:27,052 --> 00:31:29,152
Is it okay for him
to use accents?"
816
00:31:29,154 --> 00:31:30,889
Is that something
you’ve had to respond to?
817
00:31:30,889 --> 00:31:33,089
The most commonly
asked question is,
818
00:31:33,091 --> 00:31:35,026
"Well, what if a white guy
did these jokes?"
819
00:31:35,026 --> 00:31:37,126
And I go, "Don’t get
caught up on my color
820
00:31:37,129 --> 00:31:38,897
and don’t get caught up
on the words.
821
00:31:38,897 --> 00:31:40,565
Get caught up
in the intent."
822
00:31:40,565 --> 00:31:43,965
Most of the 7‐Eleven guys were
Indian and Pakistani.
823
00:31:43,969 --> 00:31:45,137
And there was one,
in particular,
824
00:31:45,137 --> 00:31:48,437
who lived near me
who was pretty crusty.
825
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,076
And I would often have
the same exchange with him
826
00:31:51,076 --> 00:31:52,136
all the time.
827
00:31:52,144 --> 00:31:53,945
I would be in line,
828
00:31:53,945 --> 00:31:58,045
buying a drink,
and I’d open the Gatorade
829
00:31:58,049 --> 00:32:00,149
before I’m waiting to pay,
and he would get annoyed.
830
00:32:00,152 --> 00:32:01,852
[ Indian accent ] "Why do you
open your unpaid product there?
831
00:32:01,853 --> 00:32:03,889
Please don’t open that
until you have paid."
832
00:32:03,889 --> 00:32:05,089
I’m like...
833
00:32:05,090 --> 00:32:07,359
"Am I running out the store?
what am I doing?"
834
00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:09,689
There’s nothing wrong
with doing an accent.
835
00:32:09,694 --> 00:32:13,598
An accent is a crucial part
of a character.
836
00:32:13,598 --> 00:32:15,398
It’s when the accent
837
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,870
lends itself to being
part of a joke
838
00:32:19,871 --> 00:32:21,239
about the person,
839
00:32:21,239 --> 00:32:23,208
it’s a racist dig,
840
00:32:23,208 --> 00:32:25,338
that’s when
the accent’s problematic.
841
00:32:25,343 --> 00:32:28,046
You know that a white guy
does the voice?
Huh?!
842
00:32:28,046 --> 00:32:29,206
’Cause the voice is ‐‐
843
00:32:29,214 --> 00:32:30,549
It’s actually done
by a Hank Azaria,
844
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:32,279
who’s a white voice actor.
845
00:32:32,284 --> 00:32:34,486
How did you find out it was
a white guy that did the voice?
846
00:32:34,486 --> 00:32:36,686
I don’t know. I think,
like, after a long time.
847
00:32:36,688 --> 00:32:38,288
I definitely assumed
he was Indian.
848
00:32:38,290 --> 00:32:40,290
How do you feel
about that?
849
00:32:40,292 --> 00:32:42,092
Oh, I’m making a movie
about how much I dislike it.
850
00:32:42,093 --> 00:32:45,530
Finding out just now
that it was a white guy
851
00:32:45,530 --> 00:32:46,998
is kind of ‐‐
852
00:32:46,998 --> 00:32:48,728
that makes me a little bit
uncomfortable, for sure.
853
00:32:48,733 --> 00:32:50,101
I don’t know whether ‐‐
854
00:32:50,101 --> 00:32:52,070
’cause people, like,
imitate him.
855
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:54,840
I don’t know whether it makes
it more or less racist
856
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,040
to imitate a white guy
pretending to be Indian.
857
00:32:57,042 --> 00:32:58,610
[ Laughs ]
858
00:32:58,610 --> 00:33:00,040
Does that make sense?
859
00:33:00,045 --> 00:33:03,648
I will tell you it makes me
equally uncomfortable.
860
00:33:03,648 --> 00:33:08,286
The bottom line was always
"what’s funnier?"
861
00:33:08,286 --> 00:33:10,355
Our job is
to write a comedy.
862
00:33:10,355 --> 00:33:13,585
The fact is,
sober Barney, not funny.
863
00:33:13,592 --> 00:33:14,426
Right.
864
00:33:14,426 --> 00:33:17,256
Out Smithers, not as funny.
865
00:33:17,262 --> 00:33:22,232
Humor comes out
of conflict.
866
00:33:22,234 --> 00:33:28,206
And the seven deadly sins
and our less ‐‐
867
00:33:28,206 --> 00:33:30,306
and our more ‐‐
868
00:33:30,308 --> 00:33:32,308
the aspects of our personality
869
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:33,710
that we’re maybe not
so proud of.
870
00:33:33,712 --> 00:33:35,847
What was Apu’s flaw?
871
00:33:35,847 --> 00:33:38,617
I wouldn’t say
he was flawed,
872
00:33:38,617 --> 00:33:43,887
but he was
a first‐generation immigrant
873
00:33:43,889 --> 00:33:46,719
with all of the trappings.
874
00:33:46,725 --> 00:33:49,561
But I mean, could you say that
a lot of the stuff that Apu says
875
00:33:49,561 --> 00:33:52,697
wouldn’t hit as hard
without the accent?
876
00:33:52,697 --> 00:33:56,897
Yeah, well, there are accents
that by their nature,
877
00:33:56,902 --> 00:34:00,102
to white Americans,
878
00:34:00,105 --> 00:34:02,374
I can only speak
from experience,
879
00:34:02,374 --> 00:34:05,076
sound funny, period.
880
00:34:05,076 --> 00:34:09,046
But there were a lot of people
that did not agree with Dana.
881
00:34:09,047 --> 00:34:12,217
And if Hank is anything like me,
he definitely checks Twitter
882
00:34:12,217 --> 00:34:14,917
every five minutes,
especially on the toilet.
883
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,255
The public wants answers, Hank!
884
00:34:17,255 --> 00:34:18,785
[ Toilet flushes ]
885
00:34:24,596 --> 00:34:26,356
Hari: I always
loved stand‐up comedy as a kid.
886
00:34:26,364 --> 00:34:28,199
Like, it was, like, magic to me.
887
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:30,099
Well, I knew that
I wanted to do that,
888
00:34:30,101 --> 00:34:31,870
except I was 17
889
00:34:31,870 --> 00:34:33,570
and didn’t have
a complicated life.
890
00:34:33,572 --> 00:34:36,641
What I did have was
the fact that I was Indian.
891
00:34:36,641 --> 00:34:38,777
Oh, you got that from India!
892
00:34:38,777 --> 00:34:41,207
You got me!
893
00:34:41,212 --> 00:34:44,449
Oh, you got me!
[ Laughter ]
894
00:34:44,449 --> 00:34:46,779
I‐I have some chicken dinner
in my backpack.
895
00:34:46,785 --> 00:34:48,453
Do you want some?
896
00:34:48,453 --> 00:34:50,353
Hey, rub my belly.
I’ll give you three wishes!
897
00:34:50,355 --> 00:34:51,790
Yeah, come on!
898
00:34:51,790 --> 00:34:54,590
So, I milked it
as much as I could.
899
00:34:54,593 --> 00:34:57,996
Like, every corny joke
about race I could imagine,
900
00:34:57,996 --> 00:34:59,926
like, jokes about curry
and taxi cabs,
901
00:34:59,931 --> 00:35:02,131
gas stations,
convenience stores,
902
00:35:02,133 --> 00:35:03,835
and it was awful.
903
00:35:03,835 --> 00:35:06,695
And I probably did that
for about,
904
00:35:06,705 --> 00:35:08,907
I don’t know,
four or five years.
905
00:35:08,907 --> 00:35:10,267
And then, 9/11 happened.
906
00:35:10,275 --> 00:35:11,985
[ Police sirens wailing ]
[ Indistinct yelling ]
907
00:35:13,311 --> 00:35:15,080
The world was falling apart,
908
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,080
and I felt more like a minority
than ever before.
909
00:35:18,083 --> 00:35:19,250
So why was I on stage,
910
00:35:19,250 --> 00:35:22,050
doing crappy impressions
of my parents?
911
00:35:22,053 --> 00:35:26,057
I was minimizing them
the same way America always had.
912
00:35:26,057 --> 00:35:28,426
My comedy had to shift
from the way people saw me
913
00:35:28,426 --> 00:35:31,396
towards the way
I wanted to be seen.
914
00:35:31,396 --> 00:35:32,996
I hate when people say
they can’t see color.
915
00:35:32,998 --> 00:35:34,328
Like, "I can’t see race."
916
00:35:34,332 --> 00:35:36,001
If you can’t see race,
you can’t see racism.
917
00:35:36,001 --> 00:35:38,301
Then, what good are you to me?
You know what I mean?
918
00:35:38,303 --> 00:35:40,338
I hate that [bleep]
I hate that.
919
00:35:40,338 --> 00:35:41,768
And people say
they can’t see race,
920
00:35:41,773 --> 00:35:44,142
and I think that leads to
more racism, like, every year.
921
00:35:44,142 --> 00:35:47,145
Like, when did Halloween turn
into racist Christmas, right?
922
00:35:47,145 --> 00:35:48,475
When...
923
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,780
When is that the year
people think
924
00:35:49,781 --> 00:35:51,781
they can get a pass
on being super racist,
925
00:35:51,783 --> 00:35:53,885
wearing blackface
or a Geisha outfit or whatever?
926
00:35:53,885 --> 00:35:56,285
Why do they assume that?
Every year you see people ‐‐
927
00:35:56,287 --> 00:35:58,456
White people wearing blackface.
It’s not just white people.
928
00:35:58,456 --> 00:36:00,756
It’s also people of color
that have chosen their sides.
929
00:36:00,759 --> 00:36:03,589
[ Laughter ]
930
00:36:03,595 --> 00:36:05,997
I would go to the Comedy Zone,
and I loved the Comedy Zone.
931
00:36:05,997 --> 00:36:07,927
I’d see all these comics,
and they’d put my friends
932
00:36:07,932 --> 00:36:10,201
in the front row
’cause we were brown people.
933
00:36:10,201 --> 00:36:11,601
At first we thought it
was great, and then we realized
934
00:36:11,603 --> 00:36:13,772
they’re just gonna pick on us
the whole time.
935
00:36:13,772 --> 00:36:15,907
And it wasn’t just one time.
It was every time.
936
00:36:15,907 --> 00:36:17,275
It’d be racist [bleep],
and I’m like,
937
00:36:17,275 --> 00:36:19,605
"Okay, it’s a joke.
You gotta take a joke."
938
00:36:19,611 --> 00:36:22,280
But we never got to reply,
’cause there was never a comic
939
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,380
who was gonna go on stage
who was Indian‐American...
940
00:36:25,383 --> 00:36:27,485
And defend you guys.
There was no response.
941
00:36:27,485 --> 00:36:29,585
And you know,
I wanted to be that response.
942
00:36:29,587 --> 00:36:32,917
There’s a kind of complacency
that happens in our culture,
943
00:36:32,924 --> 00:36:35,126
like, around that stuff,
you know,
944
00:36:35,126 --> 00:36:38,626
where even we start going like,
"Oh, it’s funny!"
Mm‐hmm.
945
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:40,999
And this is the insidiousness
of racism.
946
00:36:40,999 --> 00:36:44,436
The person who is
subjected to it or ‐‐
947
00:36:44,436 --> 00:36:46,966
is buying into it
as sort of a cultural norm.
948
00:36:46,971 --> 00:36:48,707
Like, "It’s not a problem.
It’s fine.
949
00:36:48,707 --> 00:36:51,037
What’s the big deal?
You’re overreacting."
950
00:36:51,042 --> 00:36:52,342
Hari: One thing
people don’t understand
951
00:36:52,343 --> 00:36:55,180
is that something can be
really funny
952
00:36:55,180 --> 00:36:59,550
and still wrong
or morally questionable.
953
00:36:59,551 --> 00:37:02,751
The fun part about comedy is
that you’re transgressive.
954
00:37:02,754 --> 00:37:04,456
Yeah.
When you say,
"When I see Hank Azaria
955
00:37:04,456 --> 00:37:05,716
I’m gonna kick the [bleep]
out of him,"
956
00:37:05,724 --> 00:37:07,092
the funny part about that
for the audience is
957
00:37:07,092 --> 00:37:08,326
that you’re not kicking
the [bleep] out of nobody.
958
00:37:08,326 --> 00:37:09,686
Yeah.
So, that’s the line
you’re cr‐‐
959
00:37:09,694 --> 00:37:11,129
Like, "Oh, really?
Is that what you’re gonna do?"
960
00:37:11,129 --> 00:37:12,529
But we also relate
961
00:37:12,530 --> 00:37:15,130
to your intense anger
or feeling about it.
962
00:37:15,133 --> 00:37:17,033
But we also are not worried
about Hank Azaria.
963
00:37:17,035 --> 00:37:19,204
You’re right. Right.
You know, he works out.
[ Laughs ]
964
00:37:19,204 --> 00:37:21,139
Yeah, right.
He’s got a big house.
965
00:37:21,139 --> 00:37:23,169
I’m kicking upward.
Yeah, you’re punching upward.
966
00:37:23,174 --> 00:37:24,509
Smithers,
you infernal ninny!
967
00:37:24,509 --> 00:37:27,609
Stick your left hoof
on that flange now!
968
00:37:27,612 --> 00:37:29,347
Now, pump those
scrawny chicken legs,
969
00:37:29,347 --> 00:37:30,877
you stuporous funker!
970
00:37:30,882 --> 00:37:32,917
Can I bust you
on something?
Go ahead.
971
00:37:32,917 --> 00:37:34,917
Do you think Mr. Burns is
one‐dimensional?
972
00:37:34,919 --> 00:37:36,849
I think Mr. Burns is
one‐dimensional,
973
00:37:36,855 --> 00:37:40,859
but he is a one‐dimensional
caricature of a rich maniac,
974
00:37:40,859 --> 00:37:44,095
which there are many
and who have power.
Mm‐hmm.
975
00:37:44,095 --> 00:37:46,355
I think an Indian
convenience store owner
976
00:37:46,364 --> 00:37:48,133
who’s accented
doesn’t have power,
977
00:37:48,133 --> 00:37:50,101
especially
in that situation.
978
00:37:50,101 --> 00:37:52,036
And if I believe
that we should go after
979
00:37:52,036 --> 00:37:54,436
people with more power
as much as we can,
980
00:37:54,439 --> 00:37:57,169
which "The Simpsons"
certainly does brilliantly.
Right.
981
00:37:57,175 --> 00:37:59,811
To the writers,
there’s no difference.
982
00:37:59,811 --> 00:38:02,711
Mr. Burns is funny
in these four ways,
983
00:38:02,714 --> 00:38:04,816
Apu is funny
in these four ways.
984
00:38:04,816 --> 00:38:06,716
That’s so mechanical,
though.
985
00:38:06,718 --> 00:38:08,518
It’s the nature of writing
a television show,
986
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,720
when you have to write 22
half‐hour stories a year
987
00:38:11,723 --> 00:38:14,759
for 25 years that
don’t repeat themselves.
988
00:38:14,759 --> 00:38:18,929
By the time you got there,
was there a sense of,
989
00:38:18,930 --> 00:38:20,260
like, any kind of regret?
990
00:38:20,265 --> 00:38:23,268
Like, "I wish this character
wasn’t built this way"?
991
00:38:23,268 --> 00:38:27,198
I think if "The Simpsons"
were being done today,
992
00:38:27,205 --> 00:38:29,641
I’m not sure if you could
have Apu voiced by Hank.
993
00:38:29,641 --> 00:38:31,910
I mean, do you see that as
a good thing or a bad thing?
994
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:34,546
Is there a value,
or is it just the way it is?
995
00:38:34,546 --> 00:38:36,546
I see it as a "thing."
996
00:38:36,548 --> 00:38:40,648
How much do you want to tear
at the fabric of the show?
997
00:38:40,652 --> 00:38:45,122
Do you want to pull Apu,
a beloved character,
998
00:38:45,123 --> 00:38:47,892
out of the Kwik‐E‐Mart,
a beloved setting,
999
00:38:47,892 --> 00:38:52,197
just for the sake
of updating that character
1000
00:38:52,197 --> 00:38:55,227
to be less
anachronistic?
1001
00:38:55,233 --> 00:38:57,033
How have we been so overlooked
1002
00:38:57,035 --> 00:39:00,004
by the comedy writers
I’d grown up idolizing?
1003
00:39:00,004 --> 00:39:01,940
It’s like they didn’t
even think of us.
1004
00:39:01,940 --> 00:39:04,475
It influenced, like,
our whole class of comedians.
Nancherla: Yeah.
1005
00:39:04,475 --> 00:39:06,875
And some of our favorite writers
came from there ‐‐
1006
00:39:06,878 --> 00:39:09,647
Dana Gould, Conan,
like, so many.
Yeah.
1007
00:39:09,647 --> 00:39:12,777
And to me,
I was like, "Oh."
1008
00:39:12,784 --> 00:39:15,353
Like, was that just, like,
a blind spot to these people
1009
00:39:15,353 --> 00:39:17,253
that are considered to be
comedic geniuses?
1010
00:39:17,255 --> 00:39:19,824
I feel like that still happens
in writers’ rooms now.
1011
00:39:19,824 --> 00:39:22,093
It’s like whoever sits
at the table,
1012
00:39:22,093 --> 00:39:23,728
informs the discussion.
1013
00:39:23,728 --> 00:39:26,258
So if it’s, like,
all white men,
1014
00:39:26,264 --> 00:39:28,132
you’re gonna have someone
make an off‐color joke
1015
00:39:28,132 --> 00:39:32,002
and not realize the extent
to which it is inappropriate.
1016
00:39:32,003 --> 00:39:34,172
When does the actor
have culpability?
1017
00:39:34,172 --> 00:39:37,041
Like, does Hank Azaria
have some responsibility,
1018
00:39:37,041 --> 00:39:38,641
or is he just an actor
playing a role
1019
00:39:38,643 --> 00:39:40,845
and he was lucky enough
to have it for 26 years?
1020
00:39:40,845 --> 00:39:42,705
It’s hard for me
to blame the actor.
1021
00:39:42,714 --> 00:39:44,883
It lives
in a systemic culture
1022
00:39:44,883 --> 00:39:48,119
of how are Southasians
represented.
1023
00:39:48,119 --> 00:39:50,619
If we’re funny
just because of an accent
1024
00:39:50,622 --> 00:39:51,890
or just because ‐‐
1025
00:39:51,890 --> 00:39:54,390
if that’s the only version of us
that is seen
1026
00:39:54,392 --> 00:39:56,692
and that’s the only version
that’s allowed
1027
00:39:56,694 --> 00:40:01,165
because the audience will accept
one version of Southasians,
1028
00:40:01,165 --> 00:40:02,565
they won’t accept something
1029
00:40:02,567 --> 00:40:04,497
that’s nuanced
or it’s just not ‐‐
1030
00:40:04,502 --> 00:40:06,237
it’s too complicated,
you know.
1031
00:40:06,237 --> 00:40:09,737
I don’t think Hank Azaria
thought about it...
1032
00:40:09,741 --> 00:40:11,041
probably that much.
1033
00:40:11,042 --> 00:40:13,742
It was just a funny character,
one among many that he did.
1034
00:40:13,745 --> 00:40:15,480
Hari: I mean,
that’s part of comedy, too.
1035
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,116
I mean, I think
that the media that is created,
1036
00:40:18,116 --> 00:40:20,216
I mean, part of it
is to have a conversation.
1037
00:40:20,218 --> 00:40:22,587
And with stand up,
you’re having a conversation.
1038
00:40:22,587 --> 00:40:23,817
You might not be having
the conversation
1039
00:40:23,821 --> 00:40:25,421
directly with the performer,
1040
00:40:25,423 --> 00:40:27,625
but the stuff I hear other
performers say I think about.
1041
00:40:27,625 --> 00:40:30,355
Like, that’s a lot of people
who feel that way.
1042
00:40:30,361 --> 00:40:31,761
It’s not just him.
I’m not going after him.
1043
00:40:31,763 --> 00:40:33,197
I’m going after all the people
that laughed...
Yeah.
1044
00:40:33,197 --> 00:40:34,397
and feel the same way.
1045
00:40:34,399 --> 00:40:36,129
How do I address that point?
1046
00:40:36,134 --> 00:40:37,835
That’s why representation’s
important.
1047
00:40:37,835 --> 00:40:39,465
I mean, this is
a big discussion.
1048
00:40:39,470 --> 00:40:41,706
And I hope that Hank Azaria
understands that
1049
00:40:41,706 --> 00:40:44,066
and sits down and talks to you,
because I don’t think
1050
00:40:44,075 --> 00:40:45,810
you’re necessarily
going after him.
1051
00:40:45,810 --> 00:40:48,146
But I think he’s a part
of this conversation.
1052
00:40:48,146 --> 00:40:50,146
I’ve been trying
to get Hank Azaria
1053
00:40:50,148 --> 00:40:51,578
to be in
this documentary,
1054
00:40:51,582 --> 00:40:53,451
obviously,
because it’s about Apu,
1055
00:40:53,451 --> 00:40:54,719
and he voices Apu.
Yeah.
1056
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,249
How do we get him, Dana?
1057
00:40:56,254 --> 00:40:57,388
I don’t know.
1058
00:40:57,388 --> 00:41:01,188
I would be astounded
if he would voluntarily
1059
00:41:01,192 --> 00:41:05,196
want to justify
any of his voices.
1060
00:41:05,196 --> 00:41:07,565
I still think he should be
in the documentary, obviously.
1061
00:41:07,565 --> 00:41:08,995
But, like...Yeah.
Well, yeah, sure.
1062
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,436
But I do think
that I don’t want ‐‐
1063
00:41:11,436 --> 00:41:13,796
It’s in your self‐interest
to have him in the documentary,
1064
00:41:13,805 --> 00:41:15,974
and it’s in his self‐interest
to not be in it.
1065
00:41:15,974 --> 00:41:17,308
♪
1066
00:41:17,308 --> 00:41:20,338
It all just seemed so hopeless.
1067
00:41:23,548 --> 00:41:25,878
But then I got an e‐mail
from Hank saying
1068
00:41:25,883 --> 00:41:28,486
he might be willing to talk.
1069
00:41:28,486 --> 00:41:29,646
Whoa.
1070
00:41:31,556 --> 00:41:33,186
So, it might be happening.
1071
00:41:33,191 --> 00:41:36,060
Hank Azaria might
actually talk to me.
1072
00:41:36,060 --> 00:41:39,897
This is almost very exciting.
1073
00:41:39,897 --> 00:41:42,066
But now what?
What am I gonna tell him?
1074
00:41:42,066 --> 00:41:44,396
Just stop doing the voice?
1075
00:41:44,402 --> 00:41:46,938
I need some creative solutions
for this mess.
1076
00:41:46,938 --> 00:41:49,307
I don’t know what the solution
is to tweak it.
1077
00:41:49,307 --> 00:41:51,476
I don’t know
if you can tweak it.
1078
00:41:51,476 --> 00:41:53,236
I also don’t want them
to kill Apu,
1079
00:41:53,244 --> 00:41:55,079
although it might actually
make a good episode,
1080
00:41:55,079 --> 00:41:56,547
which they’re in
desperate need of.
1081
00:41:56,547 --> 00:41:58,147
I was ‐‐
I was thinking about that.
1082
00:41:58,149 --> 00:41:59,449
But the idea of,
like, killing
1083
00:41:59,450 --> 00:42:01,786
the Indian immigrant
is also upsetting, like...
1084
00:42:01,786 --> 00:42:03,686
Well, he can’t win with you.
Right. [ Laughs ]
1085
00:42:03,688 --> 00:42:06,118
What if there’s an episode
where he just drops the accent?
1086
00:42:06,124 --> 00:42:08,059
[ Laughter ]
He was, like ‐‐
No, I’m serious ‐‐
1087
00:42:08,059 --> 00:42:10,028
And it was, like,
all just an elaborate ruse?
1088
00:42:10,028 --> 00:42:12,797
Hey, brah.
Come in and chill‐ax.
1089
00:42:12,797 --> 00:42:15,597
Now, I’m not the only one who’s
tried to solve this problem.
1090
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,700
"The Simpsons" themselves
attempted to in 2016,
1091
00:42:18,703 --> 00:42:20,503
during season 27,
1092
00:42:20,505 --> 00:42:23,374
when they introduced Apu’s
Indian‐American nephew
1093
00:42:23,374 --> 00:42:25,576
voiced by Utkarsh Ambudkar.
1094
00:42:25,576 --> 00:42:28,376
So, you did the voice
of Apu’s nephew,
1095
00:42:28,379 --> 00:42:31,015
who was the first Indian‐
American character on that show.
1096
00:42:31,015 --> 00:42:32,345
How did they approach
you about that?
1097
00:42:32,350 --> 00:42:33,480
I got an offer.
1098
00:42:33,484 --> 00:42:36,654
I got this
super‐cool letter
1099
00:42:36,654 --> 00:42:39,223
with "The Simpsons" heading
that said,
1100
00:42:39,223 --> 00:42:40,558
"Dear," you know,
1101
00:42:40,558 --> 00:42:42,688
"Utkarsh, will you come
and be on the show?"
1102
00:42:42,693 --> 00:42:46,363
And at that point I’m just like,
"Sweet sweet sweet, Simpsons...
1103
00:42:46,364 --> 00:42:48,332
Oh, man.
I know how this goes.
1104
00:42:48,332 --> 00:42:49,767
Do I have to do an accent?"
1105
00:42:49,767 --> 00:42:51,397
"No, we don’t want you
to do an accent.
1106
00:42:51,402 --> 00:42:53,838
We’ve been getting
a lot of heat," whatever it is.
1107
00:42:53,838 --> 00:42:56,307
"We want to present
an Indian‐American."
1108
00:42:56,307 --> 00:42:57,537
Check it.
1109
00:42:57,542 --> 00:42:58,776
I just bitch‐slapped your
Kwik‐E‐Mart
1110
00:42:58,776 --> 00:43:01,376
into the 21st Century!
1111
00:43:01,379 --> 00:43:04,749
There’s a moment
where I’m, like, bashing Apu.
1112
00:43:04,749 --> 00:43:06,349
And I’m like,
"You’re a stereotype!
1113
00:43:06,350 --> 00:43:07,785
Why do you talk like that?"
1114
00:43:07,785 --> 00:43:10,245
And I had an "alt,"
where I was like,
1115
00:43:10,254 --> 00:43:12,757
"You sound like a white guy
1116
00:43:12,757 --> 00:43:16,087
doing a bad version
of an Indian accent."
1117
00:43:16,094 --> 00:43:18,396
I’ll say that,
and then you cut
1118
00:43:18,396 --> 00:43:21,226
to the real Hank Azaria
in the booth.
1119
00:43:21,232 --> 00:43:22,832
That’s so good!
1120
00:43:22,834 --> 00:43:26,304
Look, and have him look
at the camera.
That’s so good!
1121
00:43:26,304 --> 00:43:27,839
And then, cut back
to the cartoon.
1122
00:43:27,839 --> 00:43:29,707
That, like,
solves the thing.
1123
00:43:29,707 --> 00:43:31,207
Did you do the take?
1124
00:43:31,209 --> 00:43:32,376
I did.
1125
00:43:32,376 --> 00:43:34,006
But, uh...
But they weren’t having it.
1126
00:43:34,011 --> 00:43:37,181
Was there ever a moment
of second‐guessing,
1127
00:43:37,181 --> 00:43:38,416
or was there ever
a moment of regret,
1128
00:43:38,416 --> 00:43:39,876
"Maybe I shouldn’t have,
1129
00:43:39,884 --> 00:43:42,186
maybe I’m taking them off
the hook by doing this."
1130
00:43:42,186 --> 00:43:44,046
Like, was there ever that?
1131
00:43:44,055 --> 00:43:46,324
Oh, yeah, when I watched it.
1132
00:43:46,324 --> 00:43:47,992
Really?
Well, yeah.
1133
00:43:47,992 --> 00:43:52,396
I mean...
"The Simpsons" wins.
1134
00:43:52,396 --> 00:43:53,526
I wanted to win.
1135
00:43:53,531 --> 00:43:55,266
You’re my uncle, brah,
and I love you.
1136
00:43:55,266 --> 00:43:57,126
But you’re a stereotype, man!
1137
00:43:57,135 --> 00:44:00,505
"Take a penny, leave a penny.
I’m Indian. I do yoga."
1138
00:44:00,505 --> 00:44:02,640
Why don’t you go back to
the "Temple of Doom,"
1139
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,208
Dr. Jones?"
1140
00:44:04,208 --> 00:44:06,138
He leaves, and then
an Italian guy comes out
1141
00:44:06,144 --> 00:44:07,645
who’s the full‐blown
stereotype.
1142
00:44:07,645 --> 00:44:09,775
[ Exaggerated Italian accent ]
Stereotype‐a?
1143
00:44:09,780 --> 00:44:13,850
Who’s a stereotype‐a?
That’s a spicy accusation!
1144
00:44:13,851 --> 00:44:15,586
You pipe down!
Hey!
1145
00:44:15,586 --> 00:44:17,186
And it’s like "The Simpsons",
the show,
1146
00:44:17,188 --> 00:44:19,457
being like,
"Stop complaining.
1147
00:44:19,457 --> 00:44:21,187
We do this to everyone."
1148
00:44:21,192 --> 00:44:25,096
Okay, so, "The Simpsons" gave us
a less‐than‐satisfying answer
1149
00:44:25,096 --> 00:44:26,726
to this Apu problem.
1150
00:44:26,731 --> 00:44:30,368
And now Hank had an opportunity
to change this.
1151
00:44:30,368 --> 00:44:33,037
"Hey, Hari, thanks
for sending me those clips.
1152
00:44:33,037 --> 00:44:34,405
The film looks
really interesting
1153
00:44:34,405 --> 00:44:35,605
and thought‐provoking.
1154
00:44:35,606 --> 00:44:37,106
I’m glad you’re making it.
1155
00:44:37,108 --> 00:44:41,145
Having said that..."
That’s not good, okay.
1156
00:44:41,145 --> 00:44:42,275
"Having said that,
1157
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,620
it’s not something
I can participate in.
1158
00:44:49,086 --> 00:44:50,846
I’m not comfortable, one,
1159
00:44:50,855 --> 00:44:53,090
speaking on behalf
of the whole show,
1160
00:44:53,090 --> 00:44:56,990
two, throwing myself
upon the mercy of your edit.
1161
00:44:56,994 --> 00:44:58,663
It’s nothing against you.
1162
00:44:58,663 --> 00:45:02,300
As I said, I think
what you’re doing is great.
1163
00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:04,368
I would definitely be open
to reconnecting
1164
00:45:04,368 --> 00:45:05,898
after the film is finished
1165
00:45:05,903 --> 00:45:09,307
and finding
a mutually‐acceptable forum
1166
00:45:09,307 --> 00:45:12,137
for us to have a conversation
about this.
1167
00:45:12,143 --> 00:45:15,479
If that still interests you,
let me know.
1168
00:45:15,479 --> 00:45:17,109
All the best to you, Hari,
1169
00:45:17,114 --> 00:45:20,324
and keep up the great work.
Hank."
1170
00:45:23,154 --> 00:45:25,089
That’s great that he ‐‐
1171
00:45:25,089 --> 00:45:29,227
He gets to choose
how he wants to be portrayed.
1172
00:45:29,227 --> 00:45:30,557
What a privilege.
1173
00:45:30,561 --> 00:45:35,700
He gets to choose how he
is viewed by other people.
1174
00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:37,768
So [bleep] ironic.
1175
00:45:37,768 --> 00:45:41,268
♪ I like to have fun ♪
1176
00:45:41,272 --> 00:45:43,908
♪ And stick out my tongue ♪
1177
00:45:43,908 --> 00:45:49,547
Wow. So, this whole thing was
a giant waste of time and money!
1178
00:45:49,547 --> 00:45:51,415
Luckily, it was
somebody else’s money,
1179
00:45:51,415 --> 00:45:54,275
but still, nothing was solved!
1180
00:45:55,586 --> 00:45:58,186
We never got to
those responsible.
1181
00:45:58,189 --> 00:46:02,326
It was just some film about
some cartoon character.
1182
00:46:02,326 --> 00:46:04,656
Or maybe it wasn’t.
1183
00:46:04,662 --> 00:46:08,699
You’re showing a kid,
a comedian, a filmmaker,
1184
00:46:08,699 --> 00:46:10,799
an actor, a musician,
1185
00:46:10,801 --> 00:46:13,001
who’s Indian,
Southasian‐American,
1186
00:46:13,004 --> 00:46:14,438
that they can do this
1187
00:46:14,438 --> 00:46:16,468
and it can make it
on television and film.
1188
00:46:16,474 --> 00:46:18,542
And you’re not
a computer dude right now.
1189
00:46:18,542 --> 00:46:20,177
You’re not an asexual being.
1190
00:46:20,177 --> 00:46:23,047
We wrote the "Kama Sutra."
We taught you how to [bleep]
1191
00:46:23,047 --> 00:46:26,217
You’re building,
and I think this is the way
1192
00:46:26,217 --> 00:46:28,347
to move forward
1193
00:46:28,352 --> 00:46:30,921
and create sort of a ‐‐
1194
00:46:30,921 --> 00:46:33,557
a blueprint for
the generations to come.
1195
00:46:33,557 --> 00:46:35,726
Here we go!
1196
00:46:35,726 --> 00:46:37,486
There has been
undeniable progress
1197
00:46:37,495 --> 00:46:39,563
for Southasian‐American
representation
1198
00:46:39,563 --> 00:46:41,098
over the last decade.
1199
00:46:41,098 --> 00:46:42,867
I mean, Aziz has a show.
1200
00:46:42,867 --> 00:46:44,467
Mindy has a show.
1201
00:46:44,468 --> 00:46:46,537
I certainly deserve a show.
1202
00:46:46,537 --> 00:46:48,306
However, we still have room
to grow,
1203
00:46:48,306 --> 00:46:50,066
considering I know
almost every
1204
00:46:50,074 --> 00:46:52,243
Southasian‐American
in the media.
1205
00:46:52,243 --> 00:46:54,545
And half of them are
in this film.
1206
00:46:54,545 --> 00:46:57,305
And now a different group
of Indians...
1207
00:46:57,315 --> 00:46:59,917
is taking it back.
1208
00:46:59,917 --> 00:47:01,317
Southasians would
come up to me all the time
1209
00:47:01,319 --> 00:47:05,219
and be like, "I’m so glad
that you’re there, on that show,
1210
00:47:05,222 --> 00:47:06,757
just by virtue
of the way you look
1211
00:47:06,757 --> 00:47:09,687
and the stories
that you get to talk about
1212
00:47:09,694 --> 00:47:10,961
and your perspectives."
1213
00:47:10,961 --> 00:47:12,561
You know, I said to John Stewart
when I got the job,
1214
00:47:12,563 --> 00:47:15,333
I was like, "Do you want me
to do the accent?"
1215
00:47:15,333 --> 00:47:17,201
And then he was like,
"What? No!
1216
00:47:17,201 --> 00:47:18,301
[ Groans ]
1217
00:47:18,302 --> 00:47:20,402
No, I don’t think
we need you to that.
1218
00:47:20,404 --> 00:47:22,640
No!
Just talk like yourself."
1219
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,640
And I was like, "Yes!"
1220
00:47:24,642 --> 00:47:25,810
[ Laughs ]
1221
00:47:25,810 --> 00:47:27,478
This is progress.
1222
00:47:27,478 --> 00:47:29,908
Progress is you hearing me
talk to you
1223
00:47:29,914 --> 00:47:32,917
and not hearing a white dude
pretending to be me.
1224
00:47:32,917 --> 00:47:34,517
Sometimes people also ask me,
1225
00:47:34,518 --> 00:47:36,448
"How come when you do
impressions of your parents,
1226
00:47:36,454 --> 00:47:37,855
you don’t use an accent?"
1227
00:47:37,855 --> 00:47:40,555
And the answer to that question,
of course, is [bleep] you.
1228
00:47:40,558 --> 00:47:45,158
That’s why I don’t
use an accent.
1229
00:47:45,162 --> 00:47:48,599
There’s an action figure.
1230
00:47:48,599 --> 00:47:50,299
He’s got the convenience store.
You can press this button.
1231
00:47:50,301 --> 00:47:54,071
I take it from your yelling
that you like my tofu dogs.
1232
00:47:54,071 --> 00:47:57,241
What the [bleep] is that?
Yes, this is ‐‐ yeah.
1233
00:47:57,241 --> 00:47:59,441
Before we wrapped it up,
I just wanted to...
1234
00:47:59,443 --> 00:48:00,778
Don’t give me that.
1235
00:48:00,778 --> 00:48:02,646
I wanted to give you this.
I wanted to give you this.
1236
00:48:02,646 --> 00:48:03,776
Do not give me that!
1237
00:48:03,781 --> 00:48:05,316
I wanted to give you this,
and this is ‐‐
1238
00:48:05,316 --> 00:48:06,546
I mean,
I realize you probably...
1239
00:48:06,550 --> 00:48:07,750
For my Negrobilia.
1240
00:48:07,752 --> 00:48:09,320
Yeah.
Okay.
1241
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,889
Thank you, Whoopi.
Thank you, honey.
1242
00:48:11,889 --> 00:48:15,326
Look, you’re still allowed
to love "The Simpsons."
1243
00:48:15,326 --> 00:48:17,056
All I’m saying
is that "The Simpsons"
1244
00:48:17,061 --> 00:48:19,029
is like your racist grandfather.
1245
00:48:19,029 --> 00:48:20,429
You love your grandfather.
1246
00:48:20,431 --> 00:48:22,099
He’s been there your whole life
1247
00:48:22,099 --> 00:48:24,969
and has taught you
so many valuable things.
1248
00:48:24,969 --> 00:48:27,438
But he still does
racist stuff regularly.
1249
00:48:27,438 --> 00:48:29,968
So if he can’t change,
1250
00:48:29,974 --> 00:48:32,309
maybe it’s time he dies.
1251
00:48:32,309 --> 00:48:35,279
And you can just remember
the best things about him ‐‐
1252
00:48:35,279 --> 00:48:37,609
seasons 1 through 10.
1253
00:48:37,615 --> 00:48:40,985
♪
1254
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:44,955
Oh, and one more thing.
1255
00:48:44,955 --> 00:48:48,655
♪
1256
00:48:54,465 --> 00:48:55,875
Aah!
1257
00:48:57,401 --> 00:48:59,001
Yeah, I think about
what my mom’s been through
1258
00:48:59,003 --> 00:49:00,037
in this country, right?
1259
00:49:00,037 --> 00:49:01,037
People saying things like,
1260
00:49:01,038 --> 00:49:02,868
"Take that dog off your head,"
1261
00:49:02,873 --> 00:49:05,443
or "Why are you wearing
bed sheets out of the house,"
1262
00:49:05,443 --> 00:49:07,478
or "Why don’t you shut up
and make me food?"
1263
00:49:07,478 --> 00:49:08,878
And this is just stuff
me and my brothers
1264
00:49:08,879 --> 00:49:09,809
said to her, growing up.
1265
00:49:09,814 --> 00:49:11,282
Now, can you imagine
1266
00:49:11,282 --> 00:49:12,982
what she dealt with
out of the house?
92508
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