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-== [ www.OpenSubtitles.com ] ==-
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- My old treasure chest.
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I've a couple of bits and pieces here.
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This is a,
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this actually is,
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it hasn't been cleaned for a while,
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'cause I really don't go
in here that often, but,
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it's the Sports Star of
the Year, 1981, Ireland.
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Look at that.
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And that's 1st place, Laguna Seca.
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That's disgusting.
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Naked.
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If you didn't make it,
nobody gives a shit.
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That's how I feel now.
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About 20 years ago, yeah,
I would've felt, you know,
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like, "Oh shit, you know,
18
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"those guys screwed me over,
and they did this, did that"
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This album here, I think my sister
20
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might have put this one together for me.
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When I was racing I didn't think
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I was the best driver in the world
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I knew I was the best driver in the world.
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That's one of mine.
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I remember that suit.
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That's one of my first ones.
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I just got,
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I got beat.
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I got beat by the system.
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- There are lots of hard luck stories
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in Formula 1.
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Tommy is the defining case study,
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because there's never been
anybody quite that good,
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who's never made it.
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- True talent really stands out.
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We had Senna, Alain Prost,
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Fernando Alonso, Michael Schumacher.
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And Tommy had the talent
of these guys for sure.
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You know, he just had that
natural feel for a car.
40
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- Tommy Byrne was wild.
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Some of the things that
he did were so unorthodox,
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that only Tommy Byrne
ever could've done it.
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Or will have ever done it.
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The problem is
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he may have gone just too far.
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- What you saw was what you got with him.
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Some people might think
it, Tommy would say it.
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And I think it hurt in the top end
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where there's sponsors,
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where there's major
manufacturers involved.
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And they don't want people
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that are a bit wild like that.
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- He got from nothing
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to Formula 1
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in little more than 4 years.
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We may never see a similar story ever again.
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- All out, all out.
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We're gonna get it tight.
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- It's two of us
who used to work up in--
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- Here you go, Bert.
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- Where did you get these extra batteries?
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- Yeah, he gives
them to me, you take them.
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Hey Sonny!
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- We will get going.
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My name is Brian Till,
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I'll be your lead instructor for the day.
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That just means that I talk
more than the other guys do.
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But you got a great group of guys
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back there in the back.
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Tommy Byrne down at the end.
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Very accomplished open wheel driver.
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Six, seven?
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- Seven.
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- Formula Car championships over in Europe
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before he came to the United States.
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A little time in Formula 1.
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Tommy's been here at the school
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I think since '93?
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'94, '95, something like that.
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- '94, 21 years now!
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You've been here what, 22?
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- Yeah.
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- Scary!
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- Long time, long time.
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So Tommy and I used to
race together a little bit.
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I crashed Tommy in Detroit one year.
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- No, you ran into me.
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- Did I?
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Of course my car was broken.
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- Yeah.
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- I had to walk back.
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- Through the streets of,
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the downtown streets of Detroit.
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- Through the streets of Detroit.
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- Yeah.
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Here's a guy
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who had come within a fingertip reach
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of the pinnacle of the sport.
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00:05:06,821 --> 00:05:09,106
And it just slid down the
other side of the mountain
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when it just slipped from his grasp.
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Your job today in this
high-performance school
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is to use 100 % of the car
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100 % of the time.
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Drive it like you stole it.
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Some of us ended our
careers on our own terms.
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Tommy didn't.
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But for the longest time,
Tommy went to sleep.
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Woke up
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and thought, "This isn't fair."
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I should've.
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I would've.
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I could've.
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- Good job, P2.
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- Mike and Carl on deck!
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To carry that with you
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when the door closes
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and you're the only person in the room
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how loud are those voices?
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- Obviously I wasn't the
nicest guy in the world.
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And it's just when you don't make it,
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people, well, they try to say,
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"Well, he did this, he did that."
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But you know what?
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I just couldn't have
anybody tell me what to do.
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- There are various theories
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00:06:12,798 --> 00:06:13,639
on Tommy Byrne the racing driver.
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00:06:13,639 --> 00:06:17,297
One is that he royally messed
up a potentially great career.
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The other one was that he
wasn't given a fair shot.
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And I think Tommy's truth
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is always somewhere in that shade of grey
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between those two extreme viewpoints.
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There were things in Tommy's character
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and from his background
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that made him not an
easy fit in Formula 1.
138
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- Alex Hurricane' Higgins, Georgie Best,
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00:06:39,755 --> 00:06:41,923
I'd put him in that kind of mould.
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Just a a little irreverent,
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and super talented, and
liked to have a beer.
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00:06:49,777 --> 00:06:51,324
- The start of the 80's, the two hot shots
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were Tommy Byrne and Ayrton Senna.
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Had it not been for Senna
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arriving at around the same time,
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Tommy's talent would've been enough
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to carry him through.
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It would've been irresistible.
149
00:07:04,028 --> 00:07:05,359
- And there
was a real anger there,
150
00:07:05,359 --> 00:07:07,824
in terms of the fact that motor racing
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00:07:07,824 --> 00:07:09,791
takes a lot of money and a lot of support.
152
00:07:09,791 --> 00:07:11,356
So if you don't have that,
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it's easy to fall by the wayside,
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or suddenly your careers changes direction
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as Tommy's did.
156
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- Obviously when you're
trying to go racing
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and you're completely broke all the time,
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and you're racing against people
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like Senna and the Brazilians
with all the money,
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and you haven't got a pot to piss in,
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it does make a difference.
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I mean, you don't get the same respect.
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People treat you different.
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And I hear this all the time,
I've seen little quotes about
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"Tommy's got a chip on his shoulder."
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I think anybody would have
a chip on their shoulder
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if they were treated like
shit after they win races.
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So many races.
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00:07:43,105 --> 00:07:45,251
I'd win the exact same
race that Senna won.
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I'd win it first, he'd
win it the year after,
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and suddenly, it's like, you know,
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"Who's Tommy Byrne?"
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And when Senna won,
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it was like the second coming of Christ.
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And that's just the way life is, you know.
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People treat you different
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when you're broke and when you're rich.
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What could I change?
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Be born a millionaire
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with a silver fucking spoon up my ass.
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00:08:07,176 --> 00:08:10,676
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- Tommy still carries
the cross of the rejection
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00:08:14,232 --> 00:08:16,399
from Formula 1, every day.
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00:08:17,541 --> 00:08:20,118
He's not the Tommy he would have been
185
00:08:20,118 --> 00:08:25,118
had it all panned out the
way he was expecting it to.
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00:08:25,211 --> 00:08:27,302
He knows what it could have been
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00:08:27,302 --> 00:08:29,719
and what it should have been.
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00:08:35,870 --> 00:08:37,723
- It's a little overgrown
since the last time I was here,
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00:08:37,723 --> 00:08:39,056
that's for sure.
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00:08:40,043 --> 00:08:40,876
Yep.
191
00:08:43,283 --> 00:08:45,033
Ah man, look at this.
192
00:08:46,288 --> 00:08:49,742
There's the trees my mom planted.
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00:08:49,742 --> 00:08:51,469
Shit, they were like,
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00:08:51,469 --> 00:08:54,136
they were a couple of feet tall.
195
00:08:55,985 --> 00:08:57,990
So, I used to ride my motorcycle
196
00:08:57,990 --> 00:08:59,392
all the way through here at night
197
00:08:59,392 --> 00:09:01,931
when I'd come home at 15 years of age.
198
00:09:01,931 --> 00:09:04,864
Drive through there, drive
all the way through here,
199
00:09:04,864 --> 00:09:07,403
drive up, and drive in the door.
200
00:09:07,403 --> 00:09:09,649
I just couldn't control myself with speed.
201
00:09:09,649 --> 00:09:11,214
I had to be flat-out everywhere.
202
00:09:11,214 --> 00:09:13,144
And I worked at the gas
station across the road,
203
00:09:13,144 --> 00:09:15,032
everybody was talking about
the day they would go there,
204
00:09:15,032 --> 00:09:17,212
and I wouldn't be there
anymore because I'd be dead.
205
00:09:17,212 --> 00:09:19,139
Because everywhere that
I went, I was flying.
206
00:09:19,139 --> 00:09:21,568
Flying down the roads.
207
00:09:21,568 --> 00:09:22,790
Flat-out.
208
00:09:22,790 --> 00:09:25,005
Couldn't slow down.
209
00:09:25,005 --> 00:09:27,294
That's what happens when you're
born in the back of the car
210
00:09:27,294 --> 00:09:29,176
on the way to the hospital.
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00:09:41,273 --> 00:09:44,973
♪ Far across the foam ♪
212
00:09:44,973 --> 00:09:49,408
♪ All though I've often left it ♪
213
00:09:49,408 --> 00:09:52,991
♪ In foreign lands to roam ♪
214
00:09:54,733 --> 00:09:55,974
- Tommy Byrne away to a flying start.
215
00:09:55,974 --> 00:09:56,807
- Born special.
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00:09:56,807 --> 00:09:58,133
Born a special way.
217
00:09:58,133 --> 00:09:59,789
218
00:09:59,789 --> 00:10:02,957
- Three firsts for Irish.
219
00:10:02,957 --> 00:10:05,640
Sports star of the week.
220
00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:06,951
- Oh, man, I was.
221
00:10:06,951 --> 00:10:08,554
I was out of control.
222
00:10:08,554 --> 00:10:11,197
I feel bad now, obviously,
you know, you feel bad,
223
00:10:11,197 --> 00:10:13,770
because I have my own kids.
224
00:10:13,770 --> 00:10:16,165
Whatever chance they had of
controlling me when I was
225
00:10:16,165 --> 00:10:17,665
nine or ten or 11,
226
00:10:18,591 --> 00:10:21,370
they had no chance at all when
I was 15, 16 years of age.
227
00:10:21,370 --> 00:10:22,328
I just didn't,
228
00:10:22,328 --> 00:10:24,078
I just didn't listen.
229
00:10:31,087 --> 00:10:33,103
This house now,
230
00:10:33,103 --> 00:10:35,512
231
00:10:35,512 --> 00:10:36,345
I just,
232
00:10:37,744 --> 00:10:39,184
I just don't want to be here, actually.
233
00:10:39,184 --> 00:10:41,056
To be honest, you know,
234
00:10:41,056 --> 00:10:43,306
it's just it's in the past.
235
00:10:44,819 --> 00:10:46,991
I had a time here, I
grew up in this house.
236
00:10:46,991 --> 00:10:50,408
Mom and dad, sisters, everybody was here.
237
00:10:51,387 --> 00:10:53,476
But now it's, you know, it's just
238
00:10:53,476 --> 00:10:54,809
time to move on.
239
00:10:59,031 --> 00:11:01,553
- When he was a child,
240
00:11:01,553 --> 00:11:05,053
he was a nuisance to everybody around him.
241
00:11:06,631 --> 00:11:07,464
- How's it's going, Maurice?
242
00:11:07,464 --> 00:11:08,831
- I'm humbled, I'm humbled.
243
00:11:08,831 --> 00:11:09,871
- How's it going?
244
00:11:09,871 --> 00:11:10,704
- Very good.
245
00:11:10,704 --> 00:11:12,370
Now I thought he was a little
246
00:11:12,370 --> 00:11:14,185
bastard at that stage.
247
00:11:14,185 --> 00:11:16,352
He was just a little brat.
248
00:11:17,335 --> 00:11:19,619
You didn't happen to bring back
that part of fancy of boots
249
00:11:19,619 --> 00:11:21,198
I gave you that time,
because I'm still waiting on.
250
00:11:21,198 --> 00:11:22,218
You use them often?
251
00:11:22,218 --> 00:11:23,587
- I haven't used them for a while,
252
00:11:23,587 --> 00:11:25,337
but I do like the boots, yeah.
253
00:11:25,337 --> 00:11:27,293
I do have to wear a couple
of pairs of socks with them.
254
00:11:27,293 --> 00:11:28,411
- Do you wear it with the jacket?
255
00:11:28,411 --> 00:11:30,067
- I forgot about the jacket.
256
00:11:30,067 --> 00:11:31,058
257
00:11:31,058 --> 00:11:32,910
- Tommy would have had a rough childhood
258
00:11:32,910 --> 00:11:35,483
brought on mainly by himself,
259
00:11:35,483 --> 00:11:37,211
by his attitude and by the way
260
00:11:37,211 --> 00:11:38,526
he carried on, and
261
00:11:38,526 --> 00:11:41,243
no law was written for Tommy Byrne.
262
00:11:41,243 --> 00:11:43,893
He never changed what he was like
263
00:11:43,893 --> 00:11:46,715
when he was 11 or 12 years of age.
264
00:11:46,715 --> 00:11:49,221
He just had that cockiness in him
265
00:11:49,221 --> 00:11:51,702
that he would have to do it his own way.
266
00:11:51,702 --> 00:11:54,347
You see, that's really as
little as I thought of you
267
00:11:54,347 --> 00:11:56,302
over the last number of years, Tommy.
268
00:11:56,302 --> 00:11:57,312
They're up there.
269
00:11:57,312 --> 00:11:58,504
- Thanks, Maurice.
270
00:11:58,504 --> 00:11:59,337
- Among all the--
271
00:11:59,337 --> 00:12:01,087
- Here, show me,
272
00:12:01,087 --> 00:12:02,777
show me what you've got there.
273
00:12:04,539 --> 00:12:05,887
Oh, look at that one.
274
00:12:05,887 --> 00:12:08,816
That's the, ah, that would
be quite an important one.
275
00:12:08,816 --> 00:12:10,442
Is that the British Grand Prix one?
276
00:12:10,442 --> 00:12:11,550
- That's the
British Grand Prix one.
277
00:12:11,550 --> 00:12:12,383
- Holy smokes.
278
00:12:12,383 --> 00:12:13,216
Look at that, huh?
279
00:12:13,216 --> 00:12:15,055
What else have you got?
280
00:12:15,055 --> 00:12:16,882
Yeah, that one there
281
00:12:16,882 --> 00:12:18,700
I think that's one of those European ones.
282
00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:19,567
- Is it?
283
00:12:19,567 --> 00:12:20,650
- I think so.
284
00:12:23,939 --> 00:12:26,805
This is the P&O Ferries Formula Ford 1600.
285
00:12:26,805 --> 00:12:28,586
This is the championship one, Maurice.
286
00:12:28,586 --> 00:12:30,726
Cor, You think it would be maybe
287
00:12:30,726 --> 00:12:32,904
a little bit looked
after better than that.
288
00:12:32,904 --> 00:12:33,737
Well, look at this.
289
00:12:33,737 --> 00:12:34,771
- You didn't even
know where they were Tommy.
290
00:12:34,771 --> 00:12:35,739
- No, I didn't, you're right.
291
00:12:35,739 --> 00:12:37,486
- I think
that's an old shell from
292
00:12:37,486 --> 00:12:38,851
World War II or something.
293
00:12:38,851 --> 00:12:42,086
But they've been lying up there for
294
00:12:42,086 --> 00:12:43,318
many years.
295
00:12:43,318 --> 00:12:44,151
- Maurice
296
00:12:44,151 --> 00:12:44,984
- Yes?
297
00:12:44,984 --> 00:12:46,320
- These could probably clean
up pretty good, I'll bet.
298
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:47,920
It's the same in my own
house back in Florida,
299
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:48,753
the same thing.
300
00:12:48,753 --> 00:12:49,586
- You tell me.
301
00:12:49,586 --> 00:12:50,419
- Trophies in boxes.
302
00:12:50,419 --> 00:12:51,252
Look at that.
303
00:12:51,252 --> 00:12:52,085
- See if you can,
304
00:12:52,085 --> 00:12:53,489
See if you can clean that one.
305
00:12:53,489 --> 00:12:54,889
When your fan club was--
306
00:12:54,889 --> 00:12:55,722
- Yep!
307
00:12:55,722 --> 00:12:56,798
- Was flying.
308
00:12:56,798 --> 00:12:57,631
- Remember that?
309
00:12:57,631 --> 00:12:58,977
We had the annual Tommy Byrne Dinner Dance
310
00:12:58,977 --> 00:13:00,161
to make me money, and I think I earned
311
00:13:00,161 --> 00:13:02,994
I think I earned, like 300 pounds.
312
00:13:03,852 --> 00:13:06,674
That was as much money that was collected
313
00:13:06,674 --> 00:13:08,388
for that one particular dance.
314
00:13:08,388 --> 00:13:10,222
Enough money to get me some clothes.
315
00:13:10,222 --> 00:13:11,570
We needed $300,000.
316
00:13:11,570 --> 00:13:12,403
- Yes!
317
00:13:13,236 --> 00:13:14,069
- It was a lot of work for me
318
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:15,241
because I couldn't even enjoy myself,
319
00:13:15,241 --> 00:13:16,536
because I had to talk to everybody.
320
00:13:16,536 --> 00:13:17,369
- Yeah.
321
00:13:17,369 --> 00:13:20,009
- And by the time it was
all over and I was ready to
322
00:13:20,009 --> 00:13:21,694
you know, get shit faced,
323
00:13:21,694 --> 00:13:22,527
It was too late.
324
00:13:22,527 --> 00:13:24,617
- And you had to put the
Dundalk accent back on again.
325
00:13:24,617 --> 00:13:26,209
Or they would have all
called you an asshole.
326
00:13:26,209 --> 00:13:27,458
- I had to put, yeah--
327
00:13:27,458 --> 00:13:28,291
- The accent.
328
00:13:28,291 --> 00:13:29,124
- Yeah.
329
00:13:29,124 --> 00:13:30,457
All right, yeah.
330
00:13:31,771 --> 00:13:33,837
331
00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:53,097
These little tracks here,
this is where it all started.
332
00:13:53,097 --> 00:13:56,595
Yeah, I worked for free,
fixing a Mini Stock car.
333
00:13:56,595 --> 00:13:57,461
It's been 40 years ago,
334
00:13:57,461 --> 00:14:00,248
because I loved being involved.
335
00:14:00,248 --> 00:14:02,026
And I would look forward as a mechanic
336
00:14:02,026 --> 00:14:03,327
to take it out for the race.
337
00:14:03,327 --> 00:14:05,381
Then you drive it back and park it there,
338
00:14:05,381 --> 00:14:06,995
and this is what I used to look forward
339
00:14:06,995 --> 00:14:08,964
to for the whole week.
340
00:14:08,964 --> 00:14:09,986
There's something about the speed,
341
00:14:09,986 --> 00:14:11,475
it's addictive.
342
00:14:11,475 --> 00:14:13,225
The smell, the noise,
343
00:14:15,459 --> 00:14:16,448
it gets in your,
344
00:14:16,448 --> 00:14:17,653
it kind of does get in your blood.
345
00:14:17,653 --> 00:14:19,184
It's just one of those things.
346
00:14:19,184 --> 00:14:21,488
Just stick the needle
in, you know, and it just
347
00:14:21,488 --> 00:14:23,792
you know, keep on pushing.
348
00:14:23,792 --> 00:14:24,921
349
00:14:32,727 --> 00:14:33,746
Yay!
350
00:14:33,746 --> 00:14:35,565
I'm more comfortable here,
351
00:14:35,565 --> 00:14:37,346
watching these little racers,
352
00:14:37,346 --> 00:14:39,650
than I would be watching a Formula 1 race,
353
00:14:39,650 --> 00:14:41,613
or even at a Formula 1 race.
354
00:14:41,613 --> 00:14:45,690
It's pretentious, it's full of a bunch of
355
00:14:45,690 --> 00:14:47,351
fake people,
356
00:14:47,351 --> 00:14:49,693
and I never really liked
it in the first place.
357
00:14:49,693 --> 00:14:51,618
And of course, I'm much
more comfortable here.
358
00:14:51,618 --> 00:14:52,821
It's just, maybe,
359
00:14:52,821 --> 00:14:55,346
360
00:14:55,346 --> 00:14:59,071
it doesn't get much better than that!
361
00:14:59,071 --> 00:15:01,192
I would say 99 % of the people here
362
00:15:01,192 --> 00:15:02,776
driving at this track tonight
363
00:15:02,776 --> 00:15:04,346
are probably here having fun.
364
00:15:04,346 --> 00:15:06,430
And that maybe there's 1 % out there
365
00:15:06,430 --> 00:15:09,026
might be trying to make
it big time in racing.
366
00:15:09,026 --> 00:15:10,951
Because remember, there's
very few people in the world
367
00:15:10,951 --> 00:15:13,534
who actually make money racing.
368
00:15:21,338 --> 00:15:23,498
I left school at 15 years of age.
369
00:15:23,498 --> 00:15:26,916
The first real job I got
was in the factory in town.
370
00:15:26,916 --> 00:15:29,381
And I was going to be a mechanic.
371
00:15:29,381 --> 00:15:30,319
My partner
372
00:15:30,319 --> 00:15:33,194
that I was apprenticing for
nicknamed me foot-and-a-half,
373
00:15:33,194 --> 00:15:36,128
because I was really,
really small at the time.
374
00:15:36,128 --> 00:15:39,751
So he nicknamed me foot-and-a-half, and
375
00:15:39,751 --> 00:15:41,714
all you could hear in
that whole big shop was,
376
00:15:41,714 --> 00:15:44,162
"foot-and-a-half, foot-and-a-half!"
377
00:15:44,162 --> 00:15:46,264
Because I was always gone
somewhere, doing something.
378
00:15:46,264 --> 00:15:48,948
Probably pilfering something.
379
00:15:48,948 --> 00:15:51,146
We didn't call it stealing,
we called it pilfering.
380
00:15:51,146 --> 00:15:53,484
But I just loved pilfering
more than anybody else,
381
00:15:53,484 --> 00:15:54,996
I just loved to take shit.
382
00:15:54,996 --> 00:15:55,829
383
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:56,938
I would wrap stuff around me,
384
00:15:56,938 --> 00:15:58,541
underneath my overalls, and
385
00:15:58,541 --> 00:16:00,084
take something home everyday.
386
00:16:00,084 --> 00:16:01,543
I just loved it.
387
00:16:01,543 --> 00:16:03,089
I just loved taking shit, you know?
388
00:16:03,089 --> 00:16:03,922
Like,
389
00:16:05,021 --> 00:16:06,341
sometimes you took it because you need it,
390
00:16:06,341 --> 00:16:07,382
and sometimes you took it just because,
391
00:16:07,382 --> 00:16:08,805
just for the hell of it.
392
00:16:08,805 --> 00:16:10,605
But I eventually did get caught,
393
00:16:10,605 --> 00:16:13,163
so I went to court and got fined.
394
00:16:13,163 --> 00:16:16,795
Put on probation or whatever
the case would've been.
395
00:16:16,795 --> 00:16:18,631
So I could have for sure
went down the wrong path
396
00:16:18,631 --> 00:16:20,898
if I didn't start racing.
397
00:16:20,898 --> 00:16:22,626
I knew that's what I wanted to do,
398
00:16:22,626 --> 00:16:25,376
I wanted to be a race car driver.
399
00:16:26,549 --> 00:16:30,330
My first Formula Ford car, my
mom had told the bank manager
400
00:16:30,330 --> 00:16:32,253
that my sister Margaret was pregnant and
401
00:16:32,253 --> 00:16:35,397
and we had to put an
extension on the house.
402
00:16:35,397 --> 00:16:38,765
And I stood behind my mother
telling her what to say.
403
00:16:38,765 --> 00:16:40,837
And I think it was 1250 pounds.
404
00:16:40,837 --> 00:16:42,621
405
00:16:42,621 --> 00:16:43,454
It was a lot of money!
406
00:16:43,454 --> 00:16:44,287
It was a loan!
407
00:16:44,287 --> 00:16:46,520
We just didn't put the
extension on the house.
408
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,770
So, it was only small lies.
409
00:16:49,903 --> 00:16:51,320
But I got my car!
410
00:16:54,498 --> 00:16:56,206
- When he came on the scene at Mondello,
411
00:16:56,206 --> 00:16:57,862
I was quite surprised.
412
00:16:57,862 --> 00:17:00,286
Here was this small guy.
413
00:17:00,286 --> 00:17:01,203
Very cocky.
414
00:17:02,187 --> 00:17:03,999
No one could quite understand him,
415
00:17:03,999 --> 00:17:05,748
he spoke so quickly,
416
00:17:05,748 --> 00:17:08,951
and he had a very
pronounced Dundalk accent.
417
00:17:08,951 --> 00:17:11,555
I wouldn't say he was like
a fish out of water, but
418
00:17:11,555 --> 00:17:13,307
he came from a background
419
00:17:13,307 --> 00:17:16,748
that normally motor-racing
people wouldn't be part of.
420
00:17:16,748 --> 00:17:18,639
So he was a big surprise
421
00:17:18,639 --> 00:17:19,972
to that element.
422
00:17:20,915 --> 00:17:24,482
- Tommy's face, his
personality, his background
423
00:17:24,482 --> 00:17:26,944
was always going to be a difficult fit.
424
00:17:26,944 --> 00:17:29,840
It's a very elitist sport,
425
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,257
whereas Tommy was
426
00:17:32,941 --> 00:17:35,656
from a very, very poor
working-class background.
427
00:17:35,656 --> 00:17:37,909
And so the odds of him succeeding
428
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:39,159
were very slim.
429
00:17:40,570 --> 00:17:42,699
- In '77 was when I went to Mondello,
430
00:17:42,699 --> 00:17:45,089
and I had no idea what I was doing.
431
00:17:45,089 --> 00:17:47,451
And I wouldn't listen to anybody.
432
00:17:47,451 --> 00:17:48,584
I thought if smoke wasn't coming off
433
00:17:48,584 --> 00:17:50,861
all four tyres, I wasn't doing it right.
434
00:17:50,861 --> 00:17:53,222
- There was this kid that
looked like a 13 year old
435
00:17:53,222 --> 00:17:55,526
that fell out of the back of a bus.
436
00:17:55,526 --> 00:17:57,665
And he was just flinging the car around
437
00:17:57,665 --> 00:17:59,157
with complete abandon.
438
00:17:59,157 --> 00:18:00,336
And I thought,
439
00:18:00,336 --> 00:18:03,338
"This kid is good, this
kid is exceptional."
440
00:18:03,338 --> 00:18:05,411
- I had a bunch of friends
all coming together,
441
00:18:05,411 --> 00:18:06,244
all, you know,
442
00:18:06,244 --> 00:18:07,983
"Here we go, this is going
to be a new adventure."
443
00:18:07,983 --> 00:18:08,816
And it was.
444
00:18:08,816 --> 00:18:12,399
Just rednecks, out of
sync with everything.
445
00:18:14,099 --> 00:18:15,723
But I figured I was passing cars,
446
00:18:15,723 --> 00:18:17,883
so I must be doing something right.
447
00:18:17,883 --> 00:18:18,929
It turns out they were just scared
448
00:18:18,929 --> 00:18:20,815
because a crazy bastard's
coming up behind them,
449
00:18:20,815 --> 00:18:23,208
and he's either going
to run into them or not,
450
00:18:23,208 --> 00:18:25,155
so they would just let me by.
451
00:18:25,155 --> 00:18:26,864
But I learned my craft by crashing.
452
00:18:26,864 --> 00:18:30,243
I crashed all year in that car.
453
00:18:30,243 --> 00:18:32,623
That car was always coming
home in more than one piece.
454
00:18:32,623 --> 00:18:33,761
It left in one piece
455
00:18:33,761 --> 00:18:37,289
and came home in two,
three, sometimes 50 pieces.
456
00:18:37,289 --> 00:18:39,665
And my mom, she'd come
out and take a look at it
457
00:18:39,665 --> 00:18:41,374
and she'd go,
458
00:18:41,374 --> 00:18:43,006
"When are you going to quit this nonsense
459
00:18:43,006 --> 00:18:43,963
"and get a real job?"
460
00:18:43,963 --> 00:18:47,137
And then I'd just be completely depressed,
461
00:18:47,137 --> 00:18:48,292
go to bed,
462
00:18:48,292 --> 00:18:49,572
wake up next morning
463
00:18:49,572 --> 00:18:51,233
with a completely different attitude,
464
00:18:51,233 --> 00:18:52,313
and start again.
465
00:18:52,313 --> 00:18:55,730
466
00:19:03,362 --> 00:19:05,882
At that time Bernard Devaney, Derek Daly,
467
00:19:05,882 --> 00:19:09,626
David Kennedy and Eddie
Jordan were all in England.
468
00:19:09,626 --> 00:19:10,687
So I read about those guys
469
00:19:10,687 --> 00:19:12,741
and I'd seen pictures of them,
so obviously I was thinking,
470
00:19:12,741 --> 00:19:16,233
"Well if they can do
it, then I can do it."
471
00:19:16,233 --> 00:19:18,229
So I left Ireland at the end of '78,
472
00:19:18,229 --> 00:19:19,762
and that was it.
473
00:19:19,762 --> 00:19:21,345
Never to look back.
474
00:19:22,532 --> 00:19:26,038
- The kid that came over from
Ireland to England in '78,
475
00:19:26,038 --> 00:19:28,371
was raw, ragamuffin chancer.
476
00:19:30,215 --> 00:19:32,322
Full of hope, massive talent,
477
00:19:32,322 --> 00:19:35,816
total self-belief, but
that was all he had.
478
00:19:35,816 --> 00:19:37,204
- My first year away from home,
479
00:19:37,204 --> 00:19:39,489
and I had a pretty rough
first half of the year,
480
00:19:39,489 --> 00:19:40,948
that's when I was very nervous a lot
481
00:19:40,948 --> 00:19:42,418
because I didn't win a race.
482
00:19:42,418 --> 00:19:44,149
And we qualify at nine in the morning
483
00:19:44,149 --> 00:19:45,858
and wouldn't race until
five o'clock that night.
484
00:19:45,858 --> 00:19:49,012
So all that time no eating,
no nothing, just nerves.
485
00:19:49,012 --> 00:19:50,894
Sick to my stomach.
486
00:19:50,894 --> 00:19:52,842
That went on for 20 races.
487
00:19:52,842 --> 00:19:55,348
And eventually I won
the race in Nurburgring,
488
00:19:55,348 --> 00:19:58,281
so that's when I knew I was
as good as I thought I was.
489
00:19:58,281 --> 00:19:59,735
And ever since that day,
490
00:19:59,735 --> 00:20:02,980
I never, ever felt sick
to my stomach again,
491
00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:04,313
It was just fun.
492
00:20:05,749 --> 00:20:07,569
- For over
10 years, Formula Ford
493
00:20:07,569 --> 00:20:10,069
has been the essential first
rung of the ladder to fame
494
00:20:10,069 --> 00:20:12,033
in single seater racing.
495
00:20:12,033 --> 00:20:12,866
Formula 1 drivers
496
00:20:12,866 --> 00:20:14,795
like James Hunt and Emerson Fittipaldi
497
00:20:14,795 --> 00:20:17,229
started racing at the
wheel of a Formula Ford,
498
00:20:17,229 --> 00:20:19,494
which has turned Formula
Ford into a proving ground
499
00:20:19,494 --> 00:20:21,744
for future world champions.
500
00:20:24,193 --> 00:20:26,207
- So, the way the junior categories work
501
00:20:26,207 --> 00:20:27,976
is that you have professional teams
502
00:20:27,976 --> 00:20:29,670
building the cars, creating the cars,
503
00:20:29,670 --> 00:20:30,724
fielding the cars.
504
00:20:30,724 --> 00:20:32,180
That all costs money.
505
00:20:32,180 --> 00:20:33,730
By and large, the teams
506
00:20:33,730 --> 00:20:35,673
don't go and get drivers.
507
00:20:35,673 --> 00:20:37,725
What happens is the
drivers bring the money
508
00:20:37,725 --> 00:20:39,686
to the teams to run them.
509
00:20:39,686 --> 00:20:41,252
Whether that's commercial sponsorship,
510
00:20:41,252 --> 00:20:43,286
or family money, or whatever,
511
00:20:43,286 --> 00:20:46,378
it's that that sustains
the junior categories
512
00:20:46,378 --> 00:20:47,769
in motor racing.
513
00:20:47,769 --> 00:20:49,638
It's very, very rare that anyone
514
00:20:49,638 --> 00:20:51,965
gets a drive for free,
515
00:20:51,965 --> 00:20:55,090
but Tommy managed to get a drive for free.
516
00:20:55,090 --> 00:20:56,605
- Ralph Firman
started his own firm,
517
00:20:56,605 --> 00:20:59,289
Van Diemen, in the early '70s.
518
00:20:59,289 --> 00:21:00,657
Van Diemen has won
519
00:21:00,657 --> 00:21:02,909
every major Formula Ford championship
520
00:21:02,909 --> 00:21:05,553
in England since 1977,
521
00:21:05,553 --> 00:21:08,995
and for that you need drivers
with talent and nerve.
522
00:21:08,995 --> 00:21:11,402
- If we feel that we
haven't got such a driver,
523
00:21:11,402 --> 00:21:12,235
then we will sponsor one ourselves.
524
00:21:12,235 --> 00:21:13,068
- Van Diemen have been very successful
525
00:21:13,068 --> 00:21:13,901
over the years because
526
00:21:13,901 --> 00:21:14,734
A, Ralph picks winners.
527
00:21:14,734 --> 00:21:15,567
And B, he didn't want that winner
528
00:21:15,567 --> 00:21:17,400
in someone else's car,
529
00:21:24,472 --> 00:21:27,190
so he certainly recognised
Tommy's talents early.
530
00:21:27,190 --> 00:21:29,354
- He knew Tommy didn't have any money,
531
00:21:29,354 --> 00:21:31,573
so you could hardly ask him for money.
532
00:21:31,573 --> 00:21:32,579
If he wanted him in the car,
533
00:21:32,579 --> 00:21:36,496
he was going to have to
give him the drive for free.
534
00:21:36,496 --> 00:21:39,246
535
00:21:40,239 --> 00:21:42,053
- Michelle is cooking for the team,
536
00:21:42,053 --> 00:21:43,476
she's the best cook on the circuit.
537
00:21:43,476 --> 00:21:45,169
- This is the grassroots, really,
538
00:21:45,169 --> 00:21:46,818
of where it all starts in
motor racing, isn't it,
539
00:21:46,818 --> 00:21:47,994
for youngsters?
540
00:21:47,994 --> 00:21:50,490
Formula Ford 1600, club racing.
541
00:21:50,490 --> 00:21:52,559
And it's all very much, I suppose,
542
00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:55,452
it's you know, it's a nice family,
543
00:21:55,452 --> 00:21:57,319
I suppose, thing, too.
544
00:21:57,319 --> 00:21:58,979
- We didn't have these motor homes.
545
00:21:58,979 --> 00:21:59,812
- No.
546
00:21:59,812 --> 00:22:00,938
- And you can see some of the pictures,
547
00:22:00,938 --> 00:22:03,438
you know, we were in the dirt.
548
00:22:04,832 --> 00:22:07,467
I love Cliff Dempsey Racing,
because he's old school.
549
00:22:07,467 --> 00:22:09,374
Reminds me more like Ralph Firman,
550
00:22:09,374 --> 00:22:11,042
all those years ago.
551
00:22:11,042 --> 00:22:14,191
He just doesn't put up with any shit.
552
00:22:14,191 --> 00:22:16,408
And he knows how to take fast drivers,
553
00:22:16,408 --> 00:22:19,326
he's the guy you want to be with.
554
00:22:19,326 --> 00:22:21,187
- You put up with a
lot with a quick driver
555
00:22:21,187 --> 00:22:23,870
on his faults because he's quick.
556
00:22:23,870 --> 00:22:25,811
He may not have all the things you want,
557
00:22:25,811 --> 00:22:28,168
but if he's quick, you put up with it.
558
00:22:28,168 --> 00:22:29,283
- You mean he may not have
all the things you want
559
00:22:29,283 --> 00:22:30,116
out of the cockpit?
560
00:22:30,116 --> 00:22:30,949
- Exactly.
561
00:22:30,949 --> 00:22:31,782
- But in the cockpit, he's fast.
562
00:22:31,782 --> 00:22:33,482
- When he's
everything, you put up with it.
563
00:22:33,482 --> 00:22:34,757
- Really good for the first section.
564
00:22:34,757 --> 00:22:36,701
Then we go into the first chicane,
565
00:22:36,701 --> 00:22:39,062
bend really good through there,
you bleed in the speeder.
566
00:22:39,062 --> 00:22:40,715
- Back in your day
567
00:22:40,715 --> 00:22:42,787
you had to actually use your brain
568
00:22:42,787 --> 00:22:44,096
to drive a race car,
569
00:22:44,096 --> 00:22:45,468
now the guys don't have to do that.
570
00:22:45,468 --> 00:22:46,301
That's the problem.
571
00:22:46,301 --> 00:22:47,134
- I had all that stuff in my head.
572
00:22:47,134 --> 00:22:48,013
- They don't have to think as much anymore
573
00:22:48,013 --> 00:22:49,653
- Because of--
- Because of data.
574
00:22:49,653 --> 00:22:51,760
And coming and running
with professional teams,
575
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,370
It's not really Daddy's paying the money,
576
00:22:54,370 --> 00:22:56,369
it doesn't really matter
if they don't get a result.
577
00:22:56,369 --> 00:22:57,202
- Exactly.
578
00:22:57,202 --> 00:22:58,181
- You know, they'll come back the next day
579
00:22:58,181 --> 00:22:59,515
and they'll be racing anyway.
580
00:22:59,515 --> 00:23:00,570
Whereas when you raced,
581
00:23:00,570 --> 00:23:01,672
if you didn't get a result,
582
00:23:01,672 --> 00:23:03,381
you weren't out the next weekend.
583
00:23:03,381 --> 00:23:04,950
- And what's the chances, Cliff,
584
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:07,922
of a young kid today getting into F1?
585
00:23:08,755 --> 00:23:09,979
- Very slim, I think.
586
00:23:09,979 --> 00:23:11,112
To be honest, I think, you know,
587
00:23:11,112 --> 00:23:12,662
We can kid ourselves and say
588
00:23:12,662 --> 00:23:13,576
"Yeah, you have a chance,"
589
00:23:13,576 --> 00:23:15,121
but I think it's very slim,
590
00:23:15,121 --> 00:23:17,186
but there are exceptions to every rule.
591
00:23:21,477 --> 00:23:23,603
- And there
is the man to watch.
592
00:23:23,603 --> 00:23:28,120
It is 21-year-old Tommy Byrne
from Dundalk in Ireland,
593
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:33,120
who has already won three
Formula Ford races this year.
594
00:23:33,438 --> 00:23:35,166
- When he came from Ireland,
595
00:23:35,166 --> 00:23:37,633
initially he was quick
in the Formula Ford car,
596
00:23:37,633 --> 00:23:39,453
like lightning-quick.
597
00:23:39,453 --> 00:23:42,278
- Tommy Byrne
is in a class of his own
598
00:23:42,278 --> 00:23:45,304
in Formula Ford racing this year.
599
00:23:45,304 --> 00:23:46,201
A string of wins,
600
00:23:46,201 --> 00:23:47,910
he just has to get into the car
601
00:23:47,910 --> 00:23:49,583
and he seems to be on his own.
602
00:23:49,583 --> 00:23:51,133
And in Formula Ford that is--
603
00:23:51,133 --> 00:23:52,648
- That was quite impressive
604
00:23:52,648 --> 00:23:56,838
for a guy straight over
from a regional championship
605
00:23:56,838 --> 00:23:58,767
to be at that level immediately.
606
00:23:58,767 --> 00:24:01,124
He was winning national
Formula Ford races.
607
00:24:01,124 --> 00:24:02,631
- Formula Ford
championship race here.
608
00:24:02,631 --> 00:24:04,395
- I could learn tracks very fast.
609
00:24:04,395 --> 00:24:06,342
I was pretty good at reading
610
00:24:06,342 --> 00:24:08,278
how good the other guys
were, and how good I was.
611
00:24:08,278 --> 00:24:12,185
I just knew I had something different.
612
00:24:12,185 --> 00:24:14,959
- He instinctively knew what to do.
613
00:24:14,959 --> 00:24:17,401
He would get the best out of the car
614
00:24:17,401 --> 00:24:19,115
no matter what it was doing.
615
00:24:19,115 --> 00:24:20,917
Tommy was the only person that I knew
616
00:24:20,917 --> 00:24:23,454
that was working on his own car.
617
00:24:23,454 --> 00:24:25,312
He had no other support.
618
00:24:25,312 --> 00:24:27,760
Everybody else was coming
over, paying for a ride,
619
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,917
expecting to get a full-time
mechanic on the car.
620
00:24:31,917 --> 00:24:33,131
Tommy was his own mechanic
621
00:24:33,131 --> 00:24:35,843
and then getting in the car and racing.
622
00:24:35,843 --> 00:24:37,855
- He did things with the car that you just
623
00:24:37,855 --> 00:24:38,894
they weren't possible, you know,
624
00:24:38,894 --> 00:24:41,062
I know about racing cars,
I watch racing cars,
625
00:24:41,062 --> 00:24:42,551
and you watched this car
going round the track
626
00:24:42,551 --> 00:24:44,674
with this bloke in it, and he just,
627
00:24:44,674 --> 00:24:46,758
that shouldn't be possible.
628
00:24:46,758 --> 00:24:49,964
- Byrne has won
race after race this year.
629
00:24:49,964 --> 00:24:54,823
He has really stamped his
mark on Formula Ford racing.
630
00:24:54,823 --> 00:24:56,138
- It was quite clear he had speed,
631
00:24:56,138 --> 00:24:58,120
and he didn't succumb to any
pressure, that's for sure.
632
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:00,579
So that confidence went into the car.
633
00:25:00,579 --> 00:25:04,645
It wasn't a fake, showy thing,
he just had that self-belief.
634
00:25:04,645 --> 00:25:07,422
Jumped in the car, delivered
and won the Championship.
635
00:25:07,422 --> 00:25:09,395
- There, appropriately enough,
636
00:25:09,395 --> 00:25:11,009
is brilliant Tommy Byrne,
637
00:25:11,009 --> 00:25:15,592
the 1980 P&O Ferries and RAC
Formula Ford Championships
638
00:25:17,239 --> 00:25:18,656
champion of 1980.
639
00:25:19,593 --> 00:25:22,030
- Tommy arrived in the UK
640
00:25:22,030 --> 00:25:24,209
as a fully formed rebel,
641
00:25:24,209 --> 00:25:26,024
You know, you said,
rough around the edges,
642
00:25:26,024 --> 00:25:27,129
he was all edge.
643
00:25:27,129 --> 00:25:28,756
And you knew he was gonna go places
644
00:25:28,756 --> 00:25:30,686
because of his prodigious talent.
645
00:25:30,686 --> 00:25:33,095
You just didn't know how high
that elevator was gonna go
646
00:25:33,095 --> 00:25:35,953
because of his personality, would be,
647
00:25:35,953 --> 00:25:38,158
you could see that it
would be a limiting factor.
648
00:25:38,158 --> 00:25:40,429
- Half and half,
it didn't happen anyway.
649
00:25:40,429 --> 00:25:42,012
- No.
650
00:25:42,012 --> 00:25:45,971
- He lived off everybody
and he could smile doing it.
651
00:25:45,971 --> 00:25:48,366
He'd order a meal in a restaurant
652
00:25:48,366 --> 00:25:50,037
long before he'd tell you,
653
00:25:50,037 --> 00:25:51,913
"I've no money, will you pay for that?"
654
00:25:51,913 --> 00:25:53,059
- He had no place to stay.
655
00:25:53,059 --> 00:25:53,892
He had no car.
656
00:25:53,892 --> 00:25:55,579
He had no money for petrol.
657
00:25:55,579 --> 00:25:57,129
He had no money for food.
658
00:25:57,129 --> 00:25:58,939
How could you make a living
659
00:25:58,939 --> 00:26:02,654
unless you're supported
by family and friends?
660
00:26:02,654 --> 00:26:04,975
The family wasn't in a
position to support him.
661
00:26:04,975 --> 00:26:08,948
So he was dependent on
the goodwill of others.
662
00:26:08,948 --> 00:26:10,858
- We'd go maybe out and have a few beers,
663
00:26:10,858 --> 00:26:12,586
and he'd get up the next morning
664
00:26:12,586 --> 00:26:15,538
and you'd see him walking
around with a pair of trousers
665
00:26:15,538 --> 00:26:17,016
that you knew were yours.
666
00:26:17,016 --> 00:26:17,849
- You need to get your jacket.
667
00:26:17,849 --> 00:26:19,380
That's going to be the
first thing you need.
668
00:26:19,380 --> 00:26:21,074
Jacket's down in the truck.
669
00:26:21,074 --> 00:26:22,407
- Tommy loved a drink.
670
00:26:22,407 --> 00:26:24,741
He'd get himself into
trouble now and again,
671
00:26:24,741 --> 00:26:26,239
but that was Tommy.
672
00:26:26,239 --> 00:26:28,574
People wanted to be part of Tommy's world.
673
00:26:28,574 --> 00:26:30,102
You'd be out in a bar somewhere
674
00:26:30,102 --> 00:26:31,538
and a girl would be drunk and say,
675
00:26:31,538 --> 00:26:33,572
"Tommy, you're so handsome," and he'd say,
676
00:26:33,572 --> 00:26:35,012
"There's no way I'm handsome.
677
00:26:35,012 --> 00:26:36,884
"I might be cute, but I'm
certainly not handsome."
678
00:26:36,884 --> 00:26:38,472
679
00:26:38,472 --> 00:26:41,585
- There was something that Tommy had
680
00:26:41,585 --> 00:26:44,086
which enabled him to, on the one hand,
681
00:26:44,086 --> 00:26:45,452
be blindingly quick,
682
00:26:45,452 --> 00:26:47,233
but he also had, on the other hand,
683
00:26:47,233 --> 00:26:49,734
another God-given gift,
684
00:26:49,734 --> 00:26:52,343
for which if there was a
gold medal for shagging,
685
00:26:52,343 --> 00:26:55,426
he'd have won it time and time again.
686
00:27:00,229 --> 00:27:02,835
- As well as the driving
on a Sunday morning,
687
00:27:02,835 --> 00:27:05,467
you had to do the partying
on a Saturday night.
688
00:27:05,467 --> 00:27:07,551
Girls and parties,
689
00:27:07,551 --> 00:27:09,462
that was all part of the rollercoaster.
690
00:27:09,462 --> 00:27:12,273
He spent more time with girls
691
00:27:12,273 --> 00:27:15,544
when other men were
sitting at home studying
692
00:27:15,544 --> 00:27:17,375
every corner and ever gear change
693
00:27:17,375 --> 00:27:19,698
that they had done on
their day's practise,
694
00:27:19,698 --> 00:27:22,532
Tommy was out that night to see
695
00:27:22,532 --> 00:27:24,075
could he get a girl?
696
00:27:24,075 --> 00:27:24,908
Maybe two.
697
00:27:26,493 --> 00:27:28,687
- You didn't get stability
with Tommy Byrne,
698
00:27:28,687 --> 00:27:30,770
you got chaos, confusion.
699
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:32,673
Fun,
700
00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:37,599
the best fun you could imagine, but chaos.
701
00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:39,188
- I acted a little bit different than
702
00:27:39,188 --> 00:27:41,517
the other guys getting in the car.
703
00:27:41,517 --> 00:27:43,533
I would just get excited,
like I was high or something.
704
00:27:43,533 --> 00:27:44,912
I'd just go, da, da, da, da, da, da.
705
00:27:44,912 --> 00:27:47,223
And people just talk,
"What the heck is he doing?
706
00:27:47,223 --> 00:27:48,606
"He's like all over the place."
707
00:27:48,606 --> 00:27:49,632
I could jump in the car last minute
708
00:27:49,632 --> 00:27:51,525
and still win the race.
709
00:27:51,525 --> 00:27:55,349
710
00:27:55,349 --> 00:27:57,852
- Some people were frightened of him,
711
00:27:57,852 --> 00:27:59,848
of what he could do.
712
00:27:59,848 --> 00:28:01,485
It was the way he walked
through the paddock,
713
00:28:01,485 --> 00:28:02,474
it was the way,
714
00:28:02,474 --> 00:28:04,077
he had a very quick step,
715
00:28:04,077 --> 00:28:07,910
and everything about him
was bang, bang, bang.
716
00:28:09,098 --> 00:28:11,814
- As a young driver you
don't show any weakness,
717
00:28:11,814 --> 00:28:15,544
if you show weakness, you're fucked.
718
00:28:15,544 --> 00:28:17,253
Put the fear of God in
them, so they know that
719
00:28:17,253 --> 00:28:19,034
if they come up behind Tommy Byrne,
720
00:28:19,034 --> 00:28:21,088
it's gonna be a problem getting by.
721
00:28:21,088 --> 00:28:22,470
And if Tommy Byrne comes up behind them,
722
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:24,164
they're in trouble, they better pull over.
723
00:28:24,164 --> 00:28:25,768
That's just the way it is.
724
00:28:25,768 --> 00:28:28,106
- The persona he projected
to the outside world
725
00:28:28,106 --> 00:28:29,856
was of "I'm the best.
726
00:28:31,232 --> 00:28:32,815
"I'm the bollocks."
727
00:28:34,267 --> 00:28:37,402
That obviously rubbed some
people up the wrong way,
728
00:28:37,402 --> 00:28:40,532
but that was just his
persona, that was how he was.
729
00:28:40,532 --> 00:28:42,063
He absolutely believed
730
00:28:42,063 --> 00:28:45,480
that he was the best driver in the world.
731
00:28:47,372 --> 00:28:49,604
- Ralph Firman's
eagle-eyed talent-spotting
732
00:28:49,604 --> 00:28:52,321
produced Brazilian Ayrton da Silva.
733
00:28:52,321 --> 00:28:54,897
Now the motor-racing world is tipping him
734
00:28:54,897 --> 00:28:57,562
as a future world champion.
735
00:28:57,562 --> 00:28:59,309
- With the case
of Ayrton and Tommy,
736
00:28:59,309 --> 00:29:01,644
they couldn't have been from
more different backgrounds.
737
00:29:01,644 --> 00:29:03,136
One was a millionaire's son,
738
00:29:03,136 --> 00:29:05,040
with all the social graces
739
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,980
that come from a privileged background,
740
00:29:07,980 --> 00:29:10,567
very at ease in that world.
741
00:29:10,567 --> 00:29:14,734
Whereas Tommy came over
from Ireland with nothing.
742
00:29:15,592 --> 00:29:19,675
743
00:29:34,410 --> 00:29:36,067
- For '81, I was
744
00:29:36,067 --> 00:29:38,536
Senna's mechanic in the Formula Ford,
745
00:29:38,536 --> 00:29:39,955
working at Van Diemen still.
746
00:29:39,955 --> 00:29:43,085
And then I go home and
I was living with Tommy.
747
00:29:43,085 --> 00:29:45,601
So they both had very, very good seasons.
748
00:29:45,601 --> 00:29:47,935
But Senna always had his eye on him.
749
00:29:47,935 --> 00:29:49,666
I'm not gonna say he was afraid of Tommy,
750
00:29:49,666 --> 00:29:51,466
he was afraid that he
wasn't going to do as well
751
00:29:51,466 --> 00:29:54,299
as Tommy had done the year before.
752
00:29:55,157 --> 00:29:58,436
- In 1981, he had these
two junior categories.
753
00:29:58,436 --> 00:30:00,163
The entry level, which is Ford 1600,
754
00:30:00,163 --> 00:30:01,455
which was what Senna was doing.
755
00:30:01,455 --> 00:30:03,706
And he was blitzing the opposition there.
756
00:30:03,706 --> 00:30:06,226
Also operating from
the Van Diemen factory,
757
00:30:06,226 --> 00:30:08,165
Tommy was doing the same
in the next category up,
758
00:30:08,165 --> 00:30:10,488
which was Ford 2000.
759
00:30:10,488 --> 00:30:12,157
He won the two major championships.
760
00:30:12,157 --> 00:30:13,090
There's a British Championship
761
00:30:13,090 --> 00:30:14,803
and there's a European Championship,
762
00:30:14,803 --> 00:30:16,546
and he blitzed them both.
763
00:30:16,546 --> 00:30:18,831
Ayrton would come along
and do the exact same thing
764
00:30:18,831 --> 00:30:20,447
one year later.
765
00:30:20,447 --> 00:30:21,670
It's unusual that you get
766
00:30:21,670 --> 00:30:25,283
two talents of that calibre
come along at the same time.
767
00:30:25,283 --> 00:30:27,073
They don't normally come along like that.
768
00:30:27,073 --> 00:30:30,740
And that was a
problem for both of them.
769
00:30:32,185 --> 00:30:34,345
- Senna's nickname was Fast Man
770
00:30:34,345 --> 00:30:36,020
because Ralph would talk about,
771
00:30:36,020 --> 00:30:40,053
"There's a fast guy coming from Brazil."
772
00:30:40,053 --> 00:30:41,747
That's what pissed me off,
773
00:30:41,747 --> 00:30:43,220
because they should
have been talking about
774
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:44,655
I was a fast man, too.
775
00:30:44,655 --> 00:30:45,913
You know?
776
00:30:45,913 --> 00:30:48,995
I don't think I got the same respect that
777
00:30:48,995 --> 00:30:50,816
the guys with the money got,
778
00:30:50,816 --> 00:30:51,952
because, you know,
779
00:30:51,952 --> 00:30:53,905
people can smell when you're broke.
780
00:30:53,905 --> 00:30:56,382
They just they just know it, you know.
781
00:30:56,382 --> 00:30:58,595
They just smell it, and they know.
782
00:30:58,595 --> 00:30:59,994
And they just want to fuck with you,
783
00:30:59,994 --> 00:31:01,199
and want to treat you
a little bit different.
784
00:31:01,199 --> 00:31:03,125
But nobody messes with people with money.
785
00:31:03,125 --> 00:31:04,437
You're just you're coming over,
786
00:31:04,437 --> 00:31:06,300
you're paying, you better
do like you're asked.
787
00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:07,937
- How much money do you need
788
00:31:07,937 --> 00:31:09,896
to find every year?
789
00:31:09,896 --> 00:31:11,986
- Well, in '81, I would say
790
00:31:11,986 --> 00:31:14,578
around 20,000, 30,000 pounds,
791
00:31:14,578 --> 00:31:16,920
which is always very difficult to get,
792
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,402
even with good results,
793
00:31:18,402 --> 00:31:21,415
wins and, you know, records,
794
00:31:21,415 --> 00:31:23,590
it's very difficult to get sponsorship.
795
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:26,849
- It caused particular
resentment from Ayrton Senna,
796
00:31:26,849 --> 00:31:30,362
who was bringing significant
backing to Van Diemen,
797
00:31:30,362 --> 00:31:33,223
that Tommy was just hopping
from one free drive to the next,
798
00:31:33,223 --> 00:31:35,402
and just sort of skipping up the ladder,
799
00:31:35,402 --> 00:31:37,308
seemingly for free.
800
00:31:37,308 --> 00:31:41,222
- Senna didn't like the
way I conducted myself.
801
00:31:41,222 --> 00:31:44,018
'Cause we were driving for the same team.
802
00:31:44,018 --> 00:31:45,652
He was doing everything right.
803
00:31:45,652 --> 00:31:47,724
I was cocky, he was arrogant.
804
00:31:47,724 --> 00:31:49,759
That was his personality.
805
00:31:49,759 --> 00:31:51,094
He must have had long weeks.
806
00:31:51,094 --> 00:31:52,354
At least I was out having fun
807
00:31:52,354 --> 00:31:55,088
during my week waiting to race.
808
00:31:55,088 --> 00:31:57,921
Oh we didn't hit each other, until
809
00:31:59,105 --> 00:32:01,589
the festival, when I drove his car.
810
00:32:01,589 --> 00:32:03,826
After that, that's when it went wrong.
811
00:32:03,826 --> 00:32:04,897
We move to Brands Hatch
812
00:32:04,897 --> 00:32:07,438
for the most important Formula Ford event
813
00:32:07,438 --> 00:32:09,622
anywhere in the world.
814
00:32:09,622 --> 00:32:11,471
The Marlboro Formula Ford Festival
815
00:32:11,471 --> 00:32:13,991
and Formula Ford World Cup.
816
00:32:13,991 --> 00:32:15,253
- Before the festival,
817
00:32:15,253 --> 00:32:17,685
Senna announced he was
retiring from motor racing
818
00:32:17,685 --> 00:32:19,429
and he was going to go
back home to Brazil.
819
00:32:19,429 --> 00:32:20,512
And that was it.
820
00:32:20,512 --> 00:32:22,230
He said he was disenchanted with a sport,
821
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:24,647
that required drivers to pay,
822
00:32:25,523 --> 00:32:26,497
and I'm sure
823
00:32:26,497 --> 00:32:28,823
Tommy getting his drives for free
824
00:32:28,823 --> 00:32:31,127
initiated that niggle in him.
825
00:32:31,127 --> 00:32:33,431
Ralph at Van Diemen was
left in a bit of a spot.
826
00:32:33,431 --> 00:32:34,264
He needed,
827
00:32:34,264 --> 00:32:36,432
for the good of the company,
to win that festival.
828
00:32:36,432 --> 00:32:38,540
So he called Tommy up and said,
829
00:32:38,540 --> 00:32:40,789
"Can you come and win
the festival for me?"
830
00:32:40,789 --> 00:32:43,191
And Tommy being Tommy,
said, "Yeah, 'course I can."
831
00:32:43,191 --> 00:32:45,524
And did in Ayrton's own car.
832
00:32:46,581 --> 00:32:48,119
- I won 100 bottles of champagne,
833
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:52,242
and I got 50 of them from
Ralph after arguing with him,
834
00:32:52,242 --> 00:32:54,812
I tried to tell him I needed
100 because I won them.
835
00:32:54,812 --> 00:32:56,199
He says, "It's my car."
836
00:32:56,199 --> 00:32:57,362
I said, "It's my win."
837
00:32:57,362 --> 00:32:59,238
So we ended up with 50 each,
838
00:32:59,238 --> 00:33:00,765
and I did exactly what I wanted to do.
839
00:33:00,765 --> 00:33:02,386
I wanted to spray the shit everywhere
840
00:33:02,386 --> 00:33:04,384
and just waste it and that's we did.
841
00:33:04,384 --> 00:33:06,797
And drank as much as
we needed to get drunk.
842
00:33:06,797 --> 00:33:09,462
- That created an opportunity
843
00:33:09,462 --> 00:33:11,747
for Tommy to progress to Formula 3,
844
00:33:11,747 --> 00:33:14,446
that he probably wouldn't
have got otherwise.
845
00:33:14,446 --> 00:33:17,456
An opportunity that Senna
was originally going to have.
846
00:33:17,456 --> 00:33:19,287
So Ayrton had inadvertently
847
00:33:19,287 --> 00:33:21,181
created an opportunity for Tommy
848
00:33:21,181 --> 00:33:23,348
that actually hurt Ayrton,
849
00:33:24,186 --> 00:33:26,831
because it spoiled his plans for doing F3
850
00:33:26,831 --> 00:33:28,706
the following season.
851
00:33:29,598 --> 00:33:30,736
- After the festival,
852
00:33:30,736 --> 00:33:32,608
I was still living up
in Norfolk at the time,
853
00:33:32,608 --> 00:33:33,846
and Senna's car
854
00:33:33,846 --> 00:33:36,219
was sitting there from the year before,
855
00:33:36,219 --> 00:33:37,734
after he left it there.
856
00:33:37,734 --> 00:33:39,520
And my car would get
punctured every now and then.
857
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:40,830
So instead of fixing the puncture,
858
00:33:40,830 --> 00:33:42,433
I'd just take my wheel off my car
859
00:33:42,433 --> 00:33:46,241
and swap it with Senna's
car that was sitting there.
860
00:33:46,241 --> 00:33:49,125
I guess he came back in 1982.
861
00:33:49,125 --> 00:33:51,012
He wasn't supposed to come
back, he was supposed to retire.
862
00:33:51,012 --> 00:33:53,590
But he came back and
he just burst in there,
863
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:56,554
and started screaming at
me for stealing his wheels.
864
00:33:56,554 --> 00:33:59,979
"You fucking Irish thief,"
and screaming and shouting,
865
00:33:59,979 --> 00:34:01,862
and I'm screaming and
shouting back at him.
866
00:34:01,862 --> 00:34:03,917
We didn't come to blows
867
00:34:03,917 --> 00:34:05,326
because somebody came in and stopped it,
868
00:34:05,326 --> 00:34:07,659
but he was very, very angry.
869
00:34:08,669 --> 00:34:11,310
If Senna didn't go home, my
career would have been done.
870
00:34:11,310 --> 00:34:14,251
Two championships, I probably
wouldn't have got Formula 3.
871
00:34:14,251 --> 00:34:16,668
So I just got lucky, I guess.
872
00:34:17,649 --> 00:34:20,026
- That's the racing car show,
873
00:34:20,026 --> 00:34:21,731
back in the day when
everyone smoked everywhere.
874
00:34:21,731 --> 00:34:22,846
875
00:34:22,846 --> 00:34:24,408
- Looked a little young there.
876
00:34:24,408 --> 00:34:26,153
That's when you had teeth, too.
877
00:34:26,153 --> 00:34:27,200
Except they're not chipped!
878
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:28,928
- Quite a lot of new teeth over the years.
879
00:34:28,928 --> 00:34:30,994
- "Tommy's gone to lunch, back at two."
880
00:34:30,994 --> 00:34:32,378
Wow, I was actually signing some stuff.
881
00:34:32,378 --> 00:34:33,657
- Yeah, the run-ons.
882
00:34:33,657 --> 00:34:37,069
- Actually
looks like I was famous.
883
00:34:37,069 --> 00:34:38,282
- That's me there.
884
00:34:38,282 --> 00:34:39,306
- There you are.
885
00:34:39,306 --> 00:34:40,205
Where's that, Tip Top?
886
00:34:40,205 --> 00:34:42,403
- Yeah, well yeah,
but we were buying our beer
887
00:34:42,403 --> 00:34:44,635
from the Crystal bar next door,
888
00:34:44,635 --> 00:34:45,965
'cause it was about a third of the price.
889
00:34:45,965 --> 00:34:46,798
- Ah really?
890
00:34:46,798 --> 00:34:47,631
Do you remember that?
891
00:34:47,631 --> 00:34:48,464
- No.
892
00:34:48,464 --> 00:34:49,297
- Shit.
893
00:34:49,297 --> 00:34:50,302
- That's one I
thought you would have
894
00:34:50,302 --> 00:34:51,552
wanted to keep.
895
00:34:52,912 --> 00:34:55,348
- Wow, Formula Ford
Festival, Brands Hatch,
896
00:34:55,348 --> 00:34:56,784
1981, first place.
897
00:34:56,784 --> 00:34:58,136
When did I give you that?
898
00:34:58,136 --> 00:34:59,666
- Well you didn't give it to me,
899
00:34:59,666 --> 00:35:01,415
you asked me to look
after it indefinitely.
900
00:35:01,415 --> 00:35:05,567
- Somebody's been keeping
it nice and polished.
901
00:35:05,567 --> 00:35:08,558
Not like some of my other
friends I give them to.
902
00:35:08,558 --> 00:35:10,036
Did you not go in all the way
903
00:35:10,036 --> 00:35:12,682
in the English game and Irish racing game
904
00:35:12,682 --> 00:35:14,227
when somebody wins, it's like,
905
00:35:14,227 --> 00:35:16,589
"Fuck, yeah he might be
fast, but he's a bollocks."
906
00:35:16,589 --> 00:35:17,608
Were you thinking that?
907
00:35:17,608 --> 00:35:19,605
- I hadn't formed an opinion,
that would have been stupid
908
00:35:19,605 --> 00:35:20,982
because I had never met you, but
909
00:35:20,982 --> 00:35:23,968
the preconceived opinion
that a lot of people had
910
00:35:23,968 --> 00:35:27,101
because of people talking,
racing, obviously,
911
00:35:27,101 --> 00:35:31,839
was that you were a really
cocky, up-yourself twat.
912
00:35:31,839 --> 00:35:32,824
- Yep, exactly.
913
00:35:32,824 --> 00:35:33,941
- But we got on straight away.
914
00:35:33,941 --> 00:35:35,394
- Exactly, because you're exactly the same!
915
00:35:37,415 --> 00:35:39,572
- Why thank you.
916
00:35:39,572 --> 00:35:40,866
- Years later, I did think to myself,
917
00:35:40,866 --> 00:35:42,876
"Maybe I should have kept some
of those important trophies.
918
00:35:42,876 --> 00:35:45,503
"And maybe I should have
kept some of the helmets,
919
00:35:45,503 --> 00:35:47,229
"just for my kids, if
nothing else, you know."
920
00:35:47,229 --> 00:35:48,467
But thanks Stuart, that's great,
921
00:35:48,467 --> 00:35:53,276
at least it's good to see
it, it brings back memories.
922
00:35:53,276 --> 00:35:54,584
Oh, shit Stuart, look there.
923
00:35:54,584 --> 00:35:56,091
That's my old car.
924
00:35:56,091 --> 00:35:56,924
Holy smoke.
925
00:35:56,924 --> 00:35:57,757
Hey, guys, what's up?
926
00:35:57,757 --> 00:35:58,590
- Haven't seen that for a while.
927
00:35:58,590 --> 00:35:59,423
- Hey, Tom, how's it going, buddy?
928
00:35:59,423 --> 00:36:00,256
- Hiya.
929
00:36:00,256 --> 00:36:01,089
- Good.
930
00:36:01,089 --> 00:36:02,047
How long have you had that?
931
00:36:02,047 --> 00:36:03,535
- I think we've had it four years now.
932
00:36:03,535 --> 00:36:04,368
- You got my name on it.
933
00:36:04,368 --> 00:36:05,352
Look at that.
934
00:36:05,352 --> 00:36:08,049
935
00:36:08,049 --> 00:36:10,136
I think I had a nicest seat.
936
00:36:10,136 --> 00:36:13,035
It's, ah, yeah, it's, ah I'm probably a
937
00:36:13,035 --> 00:36:14,885
couple of pounds heavier than
you were back in the day.
938
00:36:14,885 --> 00:36:15,718
- Back in the day,
939
00:36:15,718 --> 00:36:17,963
I was like Mick Jagger, I was like tiny!
940
00:36:17,963 --> 00:36:20,846
- Do you look thin?
941
00:36:20,846 --> 00:36:22,683
- What a load of bollocks.
942
00:36:24,286 --> 00:36:26,818
- Formula 3 would be the last step,
943
00:36:26,818 --> 00:36:29,251
at the time, before Formula 1.
944
00:36:29,251 --> 00:36:31,721
It was where the F1 team
owners and team sponsors
945
00:36:31,721 --> 00:36:35,283
were all looking for the next talent.
946
00:36:35,283 --> 00:36:38,835
- Oh, that's truth,
I'm looking forward to this.
947
00:36:38,835 --> 00:36:41,585
948
00:36:49,558 --> 00:36:51,475
My thought in 1982 was,
949
00:36:52,509 --> 00:36:55,372
because I was struggling for money,
950
00:36:55,372 --> 00:36:58,056
I need to just blitz these guys.
951
00:36:58,056 --> 00:37:00,427
I need to beat them so bad that
952
00:37:00,427 --> 00:37:02,826
it's not just good
enough winning the race,
953
00:37:02,826 --> 00:37:04,228
I need to win by a mile,
954
00:37:04,228 --> 00:37:06,768
so it'll be easy to get the
money to get into Formula 1.
955
00:37:06,768 --> 00:37:08,275
Winning just wasn't good enough.
956
00:37:08,275 --> 00:37:11,192
I had to show them how great I was.
957
00:37:12,940 --> 00:37:16,269
- Tommy Byrne
knows this race is his now.
958
00:37:16,269 --> 00:37:18,668
Tommy Byrne wins the
Marlboro Formula Ford.
959
00:37:18,668 --> 00:37:19,640
- So that's what he did,
960
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,996
he dominated the early races.
961
00:37:21,996 --> 00:37:25,126
- This man
heading for a 33-point lead
962
00:37:25,126 --> 00:37:26,120
in the championship.
963
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,294
- Tommy stepped up with Murray Taylor,
964
00:37:28,294 --> 00:37:30,110
who was running a Formula
3 Team at the time,
965
00:37:30,110 --> 00:37:31,664
and this was a category in which
966
00:37:31,664 --> 00:37:34,081
the budgets were much higher.
967
00:37:34,995 --> 00:37:36,612
For someone in Tommy's circumstances,
968
00:37:36,612 --> 00:37:38,537
the prize money for winning each race
969
00:37:38,537 --> 00:37:40,179
would fund the following race.
970
00:37:40,179 --> 00:37:42,801
So he absolutely had to
win those early races.
971
00:37:42,801 --> 00:37:43,793
Literally, the prize money was
972
00:37:43,793 --> 00:37:46,208
keeping the team's head above the water.
973
00:37:46,208 --> 00:37:50,744
That's an unusually
intense degree of pressure.
974
00:37:50,744 --> 00:37:52,203
- The fact that Tommy kept winning
975
00:37:52,203 --> 00:37:53,835
and leading the championship
976
00:37:53,835 --> 00:37:56,123
really gave Murray Taylor no option
977
00:37:56,123 --> 00:37:58,012
but to keep supporting him,
978
00:37:58,012 --> 00:37:59,619
finding the money from somewhere
979
00:37:59,619 --> 00:38:01,290
to get the car back to the race track
980
00:38:01,290 --> 00:38:03,040
for the next weekend.
981
00:38:04,314 --> 00:38:05,281
- Everybody was running
round looking for money,
982
00:38:05,281 --> 00:38:06,483
but we never got any money.
983
00:38:06,483 --> 00:38:08,534
Yeah, a couple of grand here and there.
984
00:38:08,534 --> 00:38:10,734
But Murray got some money from Shell,
985
00:38:10,734 --> 00:38:13,299
and then he got some
from General Electric.
986
00:38:13,299 --> 00:38:14,911
Murray, so many different times, says,
987
00:38:14,911 --> 00:38:15,927
"Tom, we can't move,
988
00:38:15,927 --> 00:38:17,335
"we can't go on from here,
we need to get money."
989
00:38:17,335 --> 00:38:18,609
990
00:38:18,609 --> 00:38:20,180
- Now, when I was going round Dundalk,
991
00:38:20,180 --> 00:38:22,556
getting 200 pounds off somebody,
992
00:38:22,556 --> 00:38:27,020
and 300 pounds off somebody
for Tommy to go racing,
993
00:38:27,020 --> 00:38:30,495
those figures were going
from a few hundred quid
994
00:38:30,495 --> 00:38:32,545
to the level, eventually,
995
00:38:32,545 --> 00:38:36,378
where he was being asked
for 100,000, 200,000.
996
00:38:38,254 --> 00:38:40,259
Then reality started to kick in.
997
00:38:40,259 --> 00:38:43,492
- Formula Grand Prix.
998
00:38:43,492 --> 00:38:45,356
- When Murray Taylor
was trying to keep that
999
00:38:45,356 --> 00:38:47,675
championship challenge going,
1000
00:38:47,675 --> 00:38:50,505
he had the idea he could get
1001
00:38:50,505 --> 00:38:52,753
Ron Dennis at McLaren
1002
00:38:52,753 --> 00:38:55,436
to underwrite the cost
of the Formula 3 season
1003
00:38:55,436 --> 00:38:59,936
in exchange for first call
on Tommy's future services.
1004
00:39:01,307 --> 00:39:02,920
You would speculate
1005
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,095
McLaren would probably have found
1006
00:39:04,095 --> 00:39:07,191
Tommy's raw speed and potential,
1007
00:39:07,191 --> 00:39:10,158
vast potential, irresistible.
1008
00:39:10,158 --> 00:39:11,746
1009
00:39:11,746 --> 00:39:13,596
- Ron wanted to know about
my father, where he worked,
1010
00:39:13,596 --> 00:39:15,468
where my mom worked, which I
thought was kind of strange,
1011
00:39:15,468 --> 00:39:17,700
because I didn't really see what
1012
00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:19,087
that had to do with anything.
1013
00:39:19,087 --> 00:39:22,457
I told him my dad who worked
in a factory for 40 years,
1014
00:39:22,457 --> 00:39:23,931
and he got a watch at the end of it.
1015
00:39:23,931 --> 00:39:25,226
Hopefully I won't have a watch
1016
00:39:25,226 --> 00:39:26,730
at the end of what I'm
going to do in my life.
1017
00:39:26,730 --> 00:39:28,981
I just remember at the end I asked him,
1018
00:39:28,981 --> 00:39:31,033
"Does McLaren have any money
to help me out at all?"
1019
00:39:31,033 --> 00:39:32,867
And Ron goes, "Well Tommy,
1020
00:39:32,867 --> 00:39:36,558
all our money is tied up
in R&D at the moment."
1021
00:39:36,558 --> 00:39:38,308
I said, "What's R&D?"
1022
00:39:40,101 --> 00:39:43,791
And he just looked at
me like I was an idiot.
1023
00:39:43,791 --> 00:39:45,683
And so that kind of, you know,
1024
00:39:45,683 --> 00:39:48,025
was pretty embarrassing for me.
1025
00:39:48,025 --> 00:39:49,477
I mean, I wasn't a dick to him.
1026
00:39:49,477 --> 00:39:52,810
I just came across as pretty uneducated.
1027
00:39:54,755 --> 00:39:57,922
And cocky, probably a little bit, too.
1028
00:39:59,401 --> 00:40:01,072
- Although Tommy had all the prerequisite
1029
00:40:01,072 --> 00:40:03,467
qualities you need in the car,
1030
00:40:03,467 --> 00:40:06,217
his rough edges were the opposite
1031
00:40:07,302 --> 00:40:10,219
of what Ron Dennis was looking for.
1032
00:40:11,723 --> 00:40:14,751
That wouldn't have been
an overwhelming problem,
1033
00:40:14,751 --> 00:40:18,443
had it not been for the
fact that Ayrton Senna was
1034
00:40:18,443 --> 00:40:20,610
also on the radar as well.
1035
00:40:21,486 --> 00:40:23,967
Tommy couldn't control his destiny
1036
00:40:23,967 --> 00:40:26,235
in the way Ayrton could.
1037
00:40:26,235 --> 00:40:30,735
He didn't have the background
to dictate his own path.
1038
00:40:40,878 --> 00:40:44,027
1039
00:40:44,027 --> 00:40:45,697
- Unlike other drivers, his friends
1040
00:40:45,697 --> 00:40:47,422
put together the pennies,
1041
00:40:47,422 --> 00:40:48,884
not the pounds, to facilitate
1042
00:40:48,884 --> 00:40:50,217
his onward step.
1043
00:40:51,947 --> 00:40:54,231
But, and as that entourage grew,
1044
00:40:54,231 --> 00:40:58,231
some of it attracted
probably unsavoury elements.
1045
00:41:00,025 --> 00:41:03,481
- Businessmen, people from
all sorts of hazy backgrounds
1046
00:41:03,481 --> 00:41:07,585
were intoxicated by the
world that Tommy was in.
1047
00:41:07,585 --> 00:41:08,915
They latched onto Tommy
1048
00:41:08,915 --> 00:41:11,019
and Tommy enjoyed their
company and so the,
1049
00:41:11,019 --> 00:41:13,398
the racing world can get a bit sniffy
1050
00:41:13,398 --> 00:41:16,100
about that sort of thing as well.
1051
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:19,010
He was hustling, he was doing
it in the car on his talent,
1052
00:41:19,010 --> 00:41:22,091
and out of the car he was just taking
1053
00:41:22,091 --> 00:41:25,091
help from wherever he could find it.
1054
00:41:26,017 --> 00:41:27,521
- He was attracted to London
1055
00:41:27,521 --> 00:41:30,348
and, I suppose, the nightlife, parties,
1056
00:41:30,348 --> 00:41:31,598
pubs, drinking.
1057
00:41:33,225 --> 00:41:34,988
You know, it's the age old story.
1058
00:41:34,988 --> 00:41:38,054
It's very easy to get
sucked into that direction
1059
00:41:38,054 --> 00:41:39,187
and still believe
1060
00:41:39,187 --> 00:41:41,025
that you're doing the
right thing for your career
1061
00:41:41,025 --> 00:41:43,708
in racing, because why
should they be connected?
1062
00:41:43,708 --> 00:41:45,615
But they are.
1063
00:41:45,615 --> 00:41:46,767
- Yeah, I had a bunch of friends,
1064
00:41:46,767 --> 00:41:49,457
just plenty action all the time.
1065
00:41:49,457 --> 00:41:51,611
You know, I could stay
nearly anywhere I wanted to,
1066
00:41:51,611 --> 00:41:53,469
with anybody, I was single.
1067
00:41:53,469 --> 00:41:56,800
Because I was the life of the party.
1068
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,426
It was either that or don't race.
1069
00:41:59,426 --> 00:42:00,472
- He was out partying
1070
00:42:00,472 --> 00:42:02,488
with the people who were helping him pay
1071
00:42:02,488 --> 00:42:05,234
for some of his expenses.
1072
00:42:05,234 --> 00:42:07,725
So he felt he didn't have a choice
1073
00:42:07,725 --> 00:42:11,556
but to play with these
people as they were playing.
1074
00:42:11,556 --> 00:42:14,595
They were enabling the drugs
1075
00:42:14,595 --> 00:42:17,930
and the alcohol, and he
knew it wasn't helping,
1076
00:42:17,930 --> 00:42:20,412
but it was the only thing he could do
1077
00:42:20,412 --> 00:42:23,690
to get to the next race, pay the rent,
1078
00:42:23,690 --> 00:42:26,690
buy his next cup of coffee, perhaps.
1079
00:42:29,181 --> 00:42:30,200
- How are you?
1080
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,854
- He was winning well in the
first part of the '82 season
1081
00:42:32,854 --> 00:42:34,904
and then it all started going wrong
1082
00:42:34,904 --> 00:42:37,621
when the team took on a paying driver
1083
00:42:37,621 --> 00:42:39,531
to help pay the bills
1084
00:42:39,531 --> 00:42:43,864
and they'd given Tommy's
old car to the paid driver.
1085
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,557
- Murray gave me a different car.
1086
00:42:47,557 --> 00:42:49,989
I never even came close to
winning a race after that.
1087
00:42:49,989 --> 00:42:52,364
Six races in a row that
I just was nowhere.
1088
00:42:52,364 --> 00:42:55,606
So, of course, their answer
to the whole thing was,
1089
00:42:55,606 --> 00:42:57,106
"Tommy's lost it."
1090
00:42:58,222 --> 00:42:59,293
And they'd just think, "Oh, Tommy, yeah,
1091
00:42:59,293 --> 00:43:00,646
"you must had a beer last night,
1092
00:43:00,646 --> 00:43:02,147
"mustn't be feeling too good today."
1093
00:43:02,147 --> 00:43:04,091
That's not the way it was.
1094
00:43:04,091 --> 00:43:05,838
Then the team were not
listening to me, that was,
1095
00:43:05,838 --> 00:43:08,262
then the pressure was
getting pretty big for me
1096
00:43:08,262 --> 00:43:10,212
then, you know.
1097
00:43:10,212 --> 00:43:11,045
That was,
1098
00:43:11,045 --> 00:43:14,294
everything was stepping away there.
1099
00:43:14,294 --> 00:43:16,594
- He realized that "I'm gonna be back home
1100
00:43:16,594 --> 00:43:18,519
"unless I succeed in this sport"
1101
00:43:18,519 --> 00:43:20,827
and I think when a driver has that
1102
00:43:20,827 --> 00:43:22,248
in the background, realizing,
1103
00:43:22,248 --> 00:43:23,870
listen if you don't cut it this weekend,
1104
00:43:23,870 --> 00:43:25,488
this could be your last.
1105
00:43:25,488 --> 00:43:28,655
That's a very strong motivating force.
1106
00:43:30,331 --> 00:43:31,555
- I was still leading the championship
1107
00:43:31,555 --> 00:43:33,028
but why should Murray Taylor
1108
00:43:33,028 --> 00:43:34,560
even continue to run me anymore
1109
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,504
if I'm not going to win the Championship?
1110
00:43:36,504 --> 00:43:38,702
'Cause the only thing
he's getting out of it
1111
00:43:38,702 --> 00:43:39,793
is winning the champ,
1112
00:43:39,793 --> 00:43:41,330
he had to win the championship,
1113
00:43:41,330 --> 00:43:44,929
to be able to continue and
show that he's a great team.
1114
00:43:44,929 --> 00:43:47,397
So it went on and on and
then it came to a head.
1115
00:43:47,397 --> 00:43:52,075
I said, "Listen, I'm leaving
unless I get a different car."
1116
00:43:52,075 --> 00:43:56,268
And I quit the team with
nothing to fall back on.
1117
00:43:56,268 --> 00:43:57,528
And Murray did call me back and,
1118
00:43:57,528 --> 00:44:00,750
eventually, I got a new chassis.
1119
00:44:00,750 --> 00:44:01,900
I fought back.
1120
00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:04,602
Some drivers are fucked,
they can't fight back,
1121
00:44:04,602 --> 00:44:05,953
'cause they actually
1122
00:44:05,953 --> 00:44:08,718
start believing what these guys
are telling them, you know?
1123
00:44:08,718 --> 00:44:10,614
You start thinking, well,
maybe they're right.
1124
00:44:10,614 --> 00:44:12,452
That was never a problem for me.
1125
00:44:12,452 --> 00:44:13,880
I never had to think that.
1126
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:14,910
They must have hated me.
1127
00:44:14,910 --> 00:44:17,079
But I went to Brands Hatch
1128
00:44:17,079 --> 00:44:19,705
and absolutely back to normal again.
1129
00:44:19,705 --> 00:44:21,470
Pole position and just took off
1130
00:44:21,470 --> 00:44:22,839
and nobody even came close to me.
1131
00:44:22,839 --> 00:44:23,672
- And there's ommy Byrne,
1132
00:44:23,672 --> 00:44:25,747
leading into Paddock for the first time.
1133
00:44:25,747 --> 00:44:27,455
I think Brundle was in second place.
1134
00:44:27,455 --> 00:44:29,718
- All the heavy hitters, the
Formula 1 guys were there,
1135
00:44:29,718 --> 00:44:31,933
so this was the one,
every Formula 3 driver
1136
00:44:31,933 --> 00:44:34,257
wants to win the British Grand Prix.
1137
00:44:34,257 --> 00:44:36,776
You've got this feeling that
everyone is watching you.
1138
00:44:36,776 --> 00:44:39,604
So this is the one
opportunity you have each year
1139
00:44:39,604 --> 00:44:42,105
to go out there and get
the job done and again,
1140
00:44:42,105 --> 00:44:44,663
Tommy under enormous pressure
not only won the race,
1141
00:44:44,663 --> 00:44:47,933
I mean, just took off and
left everyone in his dust.
1142
00:44:47,933 --> 00:44:49,571
- And I didn't just win the race.
1143
00:44:49,571 --> 00:44:51,155
I won it by a lot.
1144
00:44:51,155 --> 00:44:52,667
I needed that win.
1145
00:44:52,667 --> 00:44:55,513
I needed it to happen at
that time, which it did.
1146
00:44:55,513 --> 00:44:59,401
It was one of my best
performances ever I would say.
1147
00:44:59,401 --> 00:45:01,486
- The bottom line is if a driver can
1148
00:45:01,486 --> 00:45:03,701
win races for you,
1149
00:45:03,701 --> 00:45:06,202
you want to have that driver in your team.
1150
00:45:06,202 --> 00:45:07,662
And in spite of his own,
1151
00:45:07,662 --> 00:45:10,018
what I would call ill discipline,
1152
00:45:10,018 --> 00:45:12,084
Tommy was winning races.
1153
00:45:12,084 --> 00:45:15,113
By winning that race,
and to win it that well,
1154
00:45:15,113 --> 00:45:16,745
by over 20 seconds,
1155
00:45:16,745 --> 00:45:19,845
created a lot of interest in Formula 1.
1156
00:45:19,845 --> 00:45:21,678
- That's not quite as,
1157
00:45:22,618 --> 00:45:23,451
that was fun.
1158
00:45:23,451 --> 00:45:24,534
That was a laugh.
1159
00:45:24,534 --> 00:45:25,367
Fuck.
1160
00:45:25,367 --> 00:45:27,002
- There was one team in particular
1161
00:45:27,002 --> 00:45:28,835
that took an interest,
1162
00:45:29,882 --> 00:45:31,424
and that was Theodore.
1163
00:45:31,424 --> 00:45:34,952
1164
00:45:34,952 --> 00:45:37,093
- They wanted me
to drive in Formula 1.
1165
00:45:37,093 --> 00:45:39,920
For the last six races of the year.
1166
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,615
- There are usually 10 to 12 teams
1167
00:45:41,615 --> 00:45:43,808
on the grid in the world.
1168
00:45:43,808 --> 00:45:45,498
If you get an opportunity
1169
00:45:45,498 --> 00:45:48,125
to show your talent, you take it.
1170
00:45:48,125 --> 00:45:49,853
- So I signed it,
1171
00:45:49,853 --> 00:45:52,282
I remember asking for
40 grand the first year,
1172
00:45:52,282 --> 00:45:55,845
200,000 the second year and
half a million the third year
1173
00:45:55,845 --> 00:45:57,615
and Theodore, just laughed at me
1174
00:45:57,615 --> 00:46:01,365
and basically gave me
nothing, just expenses.
1175
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:03,879
- Just over four years
1176
00:46:03,879 --> 00:46:07,368
since coming over from
Ireland with nothing,
1177
00:46:07,368 --> 00:46:10,195
and now in a Grand Prix.
1178
00:46:10,195 --> 00:46:11,511
Which is an amazing feat.
1179
00:46:11,511 --> 00:46:13,090
That's how far he had come,
1180
00:46:13,090 --> 00:46:18,005
and that was all down to Tommy
and his talent, nothing else.
1181
00:46:18,005 --> 00:46:19,445
- That he could do that
1182
00:46:19,445 --> 00:46:21,333
without any funding, virtually,
1183
00:46:21,333 --> 00:46:23,621
except the pocket money
from fans and friends,
1184
00:46:23,621 --> 00:46:27,043
that could nearly tell you
everything you needed to know
1185
00:46:27,043 --> 00:46:28,793
about Tommy's talent.
1186
00:46:30,802 --> 00:46:32,135
- I was excited.
1187
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,083
Very excited.
1188
00:46:36,005 --> 00:46:39,088
But it all went to shit fairly quick.
1189
00:46:43,224 --> 00:46:45,562
The car was a piece of shit.
1190
00:46:45,562 --> 00:46:47,491
I wasn't the only driver that said that.
1191
00:46:47,491 --> 00:46:50,477
The other two drivers before
me couldn't qualify it.
1192
00:46:50,477 --> 00:46:51,682
Nobody qualified the car.
1193
00:46:51,682 --> 00:46:52,515
I qualified it,
1194
00:46:52,515 --> 00:46:55,812
I think twice out of five times.
1195
00:46:55,812 --> 00:46:58,727
I tried to qualify for Dijon,
did not, Hockenheim, did not,
1196
00:46:58,727 --> 00:47:02,225
was just a couple of tenths
off, Monza, same thing.
1197
00:47:02,225 --> 00:47:04,813
1198
00:47:04,813 --> 00:47:07,098
Well, when I qualified
for a race in Austria,
1199
00:47:07,098 --> 00:47:09,501
I was the last person to get in the car
1200
00:47:09,501 --> 00:47:11,506
because I was starting last.
1201
00:47:11,506 --> 00:47:12,871
And I really,
1202
00:47:12,871 --> 00:47:15,069
I just wasn't impressed at starting last.
1203
00:47:15,069 --> 00:47:16,168
I mean, I know I should have said
1204
00:47:16,168 --> 00:47:18,616
I've been looking forward
to this for so long.
1205
00:47:18,616 --> 00:47:21,333
I was kind of looking forward to it, but
1206
00:47:21,333 --> 00:47:24,800
maybe somewhere up the
grid, in a better car.
1207
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,300
So, I just wasn't,
1208
00:47:28,024 --> 00:47:31,107
I wasn't as excited as some
people might have been.
1209
00:47:31,107 --> 00:47:32,175
It was nothing fun.
1210
00:47:32,175 --> 00:47:34,737
I didn't like the whole situation.
1211
00:47:34,737 --> 00:47:36,125
Nobody spoke to me in Formula 1.
1212
00:47:36,125 --> 00:47:37,542
Niki Lauda said hello
1213
00:47:37,542 --> 00:47:40,047
and Nelson Piquet said hi, that was it.
1214
00:47:40,047 --> 00:47:41,472
Keke Rosberg used to come up
1215
00:47:41,472 --> 00:47:42,764
and hit me on the head every now and then
1216
00:47:42,764 --> 00:47:47,764
'cause I got in his way or
something, just a complete dick.
1217
00:47:48,326 --> 00:47:49,824
For three years I won everything.
1218
00:47:49,824 --> 00:47:51,150
Everything!
1219
00:47:51,150 --> 00:47:54,243
And I had everybody
behind me to help me win.
1220
00:47:54,243 --> 00:47:56,891
Now I get in a Formula 1 car and I'm last.
1221
00:47:56,891 --> 00:47:59,122
Not only am I last, when I
speak to the team manager
1222
00:47:59,122 --> 00:48:00,741
he tells me that if Keke Rosberg
1223
00:48:00,741 --> 00:48:03,352
was in my car he'd be first.
1224
00:48:03,352 --> 00:48:04,470
Any suggestion I give the team,
1225
00:48:04,470 --> 00:48:06,338
they didn't listen to me at all.
1226
00:48:06,338 --> 00:48:09,419
- Motor racing is a hard tough environment
1227
00:48:09,419 --> 00:48:11,973
and you need a pretty tough skin.
1228
00:48:11,973 --> 00:48:14,997
Sometimes Tommy's skin
was a little bit thin
1229
00:48:14,997 --> 00:48:16,706
when he sensed there was any
1230
00:48:16,706 --> 00:48:20,609
disrespect of his ability or his level.
1231
00:48:23,098 --> 00:48:25,780
- For the first time, my
ability was being questioned
1232
00:48:25,780 --> 00:48:27,324
by these guys.
1233
00:48:28,568 --> 00:48:31,179
I was 14th quickest on
the Friday practise.
1234
00:48:31,179 --> 00:48:32,602
I thought I might have heard something pop
1235
00:48:32,602 --> 00:48:33,609
or something at the end.
1236
00:48:33,609 --> 00:48:35,265
I wasn't too sure but I did
mention to one of the guys,
1237
00:48:35,265 --> 00:48:37,855
that I, you know, "Maybe could
you just check on something?"
1238
00:48:37,855 --> 00:48:41,510
Then I did qualifying
and I qualified last.
1239
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:43,147
The Theodore guys, their answer was,
1240
00:48:43,147 --> 00:48:44,880
they brought Jackie Stewart up
1241
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:46,157
and sent him over to me
1242
00:48:46,157 --> 00:48:47,903
to tell me how to drive around the track.
1243
00:48:47,903 --> 00:48:49,682
Instead of listening to
what I said early on that
1244
00:48:49,682 --> 00:48:51,648
I think I might have heard
something pop or something,
1245
00:48:51,648 --> 00:48:53,114
obviously something happened.
1246
00:48:53,114 --> 00:48:54,429
I was pissed.
1247
00:48:54,429 --> 00:48:55,763
Can you imagine somebody
1248
00:48:55,763 --> 00:48:58,518
coming up to Senna and
telling him how to drive,
1249
00:48:58,518 --> 00:49:01,667
how to take a line round the track?
1250
00:49:01,667 --> 00:49:03,376
But I was as nice as could be.
1251
00:49:03,376 --> 00:49:04,712
I did go back to Jo Ramirez and said,
1252
00:49:04,712 --> 00:49:07,481
"Don't you ever ever fucking
send somebody over to me
1253
00:49:07,481 --> 00:49:10,148
"to tell me how to drive again."
1254
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,957
- What happened to Tommy
in his younger years
1255
00:49:19,957 --> 00:49:23,360
informed him to behave in a certain way.
1256
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,664
When he ran in Formula Ford 2000,
1257
00:49:25,664 --> 00:49:27,190
he had a bad car
1258
00:49:27,190 --> 00:49:28,813
and he had to really work with the team
1259
00:49:28,813 --> 00:49:30,181
and he had to put it to the team,
1260
00:49:30,181 --> 00:49:32,230
"I'm not driving for you,
are you changing the car?"
1261
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:33,637
And they changed the car
1262
00:49:33,637 --> 00:49:36,281
and he became British champion
and European champion.
1263
00:49:36,281 --> 00:49:37,813
He then went into Formula 3
1264
00:49:37,813 --> 00:49:39,858
and a similar situation happened.
1265
00:49:39,858 --> 00:49:41,321
The car was not performing well.
1266
00:49:41,321 --> 00:49:43,534
And he put it to them,
"It's not me, it's the car,
1267
00:49:43,534 --> 00:49:44,938
"you gotta change the car."
1268
00:49:44,938 --> 00:49:47,029
But what he didn't realize is that
1269
00:49:47,029 --> 00:49:49,640
you can't use those same techniques,
1270
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,357
you can't bludgeon an F1 team
into submitting your way.
1271
00:49:52,357 --> 00:49:55,342
Tommy clearly didn't see that.
1272
00:49:55,342 --> 00:49:56,547
- The team manager,
1273
00:49:56,547 --> 00:49:58,547
he pissed me off so bad.
1274
00:49:59,609 --> 00:50:00,800
First off,
1275
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:05,800
actually I did talk to somebody
about getting him bumped off
1276
00:50:05,942 --> 00:50:09,359
early on after the first couple of races.
1277
00:50:10,516 --> 00:50:11,752
Maybe I wasn't serious about it
1278
00:50:11,752 --> 00:50:13,948
but I actually did talk
to one of my friends
1279
00:50:13,948 --> 00:50:17,887
in London who kind of, possibly,
could have done something.
1280
00:50:17,887 --> 00:50:19,080
It was just driving home one
day having a couple of beers,
1281
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,406
going, "I wish the fucking guy was gone."
1282
00:50:21,406 --> 00:50:24,573
That's how I was thinking at the time.
1283
00:50:25,657 --> 00:50:27,242
So at the end of the year,
1284
00:50:27,242 --> 00:50:30,035
in Vegas I had a few
drinks after the race and
1285
00:50:30,035 --> 00:50:31,816
probably not a good idea either,
1286
00:50:31,816 --> 00:50:34,351
but we were up at Caesar's
Palace in the room
1287
00:50:34,351 --> 00:50:37,091
and I was fucking pissed at him,
1288
00:50:37,091 --> 00:50:38,603
he was still yapping on, about, you know,
1289
00:50:38,603 --> 00:50:40,615
just always, he was just this,
1290
00:50:40,615 --> 00:50:42,866
it was just a bad time for me.
1291
00:50:42,866 --> 00:50:44,310
So I told him to go stick it up his ass
1292
00:50:44,310 --> 00:50:46,107
and threw a chair at
him and just, you know
1293
00:50:46,107 --> 00:50:48,267
stormed out of there, and that was it.
1294
00:50:48,267 --> 00:50:49,100
So I was done.
1295
00:50:49,100 --> 00:50:50,183
Even though
1296
00:50:50,183 --> 00:50:51,486
I was probably done anyway.
1297
00:50:51,486 --> 00:50:52,528
But I didn't get fired.
1298
00:50:52,528 --> 00:50:53,361
I just left.
1299
00:50:53,361 --> 00:50:55,166
I did have a three-year contract.
1300
00:50:55,166 --> 00:50:56,515
I'd rather not be doing Formula 1
1301
00:50:56,515 --> 00:50:59,340
than doing it like that.
1302
00:50:59,340 --> 00:51:01,413
Especially if you haven't
got a car that moves forward.
1303
00:51:01,413 --> 00:51:02,891
Basically, you're just hanging on there
1304
00:51:02,891 --> 00:51:05,209
to see how many cars drops out.
1305
00:51:05,209 --> 00:51:06,655
But I knew I had something.
1306
00:51:06,655 --> 00:51:08,349
I knew I had a talent
1307
00:51:08,349 --> 00:51:10,706
and I could have taken that talent to another team.
1308
00:51:13,604 --> 00:51:16,443
- But he came back from Las Vegas,
1309
00:51:16,443 --> 00:51:17,834
from the Grand Prix there,
1310
00:51:17,834 --> 00:51:20,084
to try to win his Formula 3 Championship,
1311
00:51:20,084 --> 00:51:22,711
and the prize for winning
that F3 Championship
1312
00:51:22,711 --> 00:51:25,544
was a Formula 1 test with McLaren.
1313
00:51:26,977 --> 00:51:30,335
He felt that it could be the
make-or-break opportunity
1314
00:51:30,335 --> 00:51:33,058
of getting into Formula 1 and a top team.
1315
00:51:33,058 --> 00:51:33,891
- You know, that was my chance
1316
00:51:33,891 --> 00:51:36,867
to drive one of the
winning cars in Formula 1.
1317
00:51:36,867 --> 00:51:39,301
But first I just needed
to win the championship.
1318
00:51:39,301 --> 00:51:40,735
- Just how
important is it winning
1319
00:51:40,735 --> 00:51:42,143
the Marlboro Formula 3 Championship
1320
00:51:42,143 --> 00:51:43,943
series to you in 1982?
1321
00:51:43,943 --> 00:51:46,012
- Well, I don't think anyone
is going to give up very easy,
1322
00:51:46,012 --> 00:51:47,327
especially not me,
1323
00:51:47,327 --> 00:51:48,532
not after coming all this way.
1324
00:51:48,532 --> 00:51:51,090
And you must remember, I think
everyone seems to have forgot
1325
00:51:51,090 --> 00:51:54,060
that I did miss four races out of it.
1326
00:51:54,060 --> 00:51:55,837
- That's how close it is.
1327
00:51:55,837 --> 00:51:56,864
First, second, and third.
1328
00:51:56,864 --> 00:51:58,141
One, two, three.
1329
00:51:58,141 --> 00:52:00,303
Mansilla, Scott, Byrne.
1330
00:52:00,303 --> 00:52:02,368
Into and out of the chicane together.
1331
00:52:02,368 --> 00:52:05,877
- I had to finish
in front of Quique Mansilla
1332
00:52:05,877 --> 00:52:07,556
to win the Championship.
1333
00:52:07,556 --> 00:52:09,466
Dave's car, every time
I got alongside him,
1334
00:52:09,466 --> 00:52:11,498
he just run into me and
put me on the grass.
1335
00:52:11,498 --> 00:52:14,848
And he did that sometimes
three times per lap.
1336
00:52:14,848 --> 00:52:16,122
In different areas.
1337
00:52:16,122 --> 00:52:17,615
And nobody did anything about it.
1338
00:52:17,615 --> 00:52:20,207
If I did that, black flag
and brought into the pits,
1339
00:52:20,207 --> 00:52:21,483
end of story.
1340
00:52:21,483 --> 00:52:23,207
But for some reason they let it go.
1341
00:52:23,207 --> 00:52:24,735
- Probably
to get out of the car
1342
00:52:24,735 --> 00:52:26,414
and walk sharply away.
1343
00:52:26,414 --> 00:52:27,394
- And then the number one guy
1344
00:52:27,394 --> 00:52:28,227
wasn't even getting away
1345
00:52:28,227 --> 00:52:29,407
so I still knew there was a chance,
1346
00:52:29,407 --> 00:52:30,578
I just had to get by him
1347
00:52:30,578 --> 00:52:31,731
and I still could win the race.
1348
00:52:31,731 --> 00:52:32,683
- Scott has
got the inside line,
1349
00:52:32,683 --> 00:52:33,882
they're banging wheels, as
they go into the straight,
1350
00:52:33,882 --> 00:52:35,841
Tommy Byrne he's waving him aside.
1351
00:52:35,841 --> 00:52:37,448
"Move over," he's
saying, "Let me through."
1352
00:52:37,448 --> 00:52:38,703
"Not likely," says Dave Scott,
1353
00:52:38,703 --> 00:52:41,340
"I'm second and I'm staying there."
1354
00:52:41,340 --> 00:52:42,493
And, ooh,
1355
00:52:42,493 --> 00:52:44,150
Dave Scott locked up his rear wheel.
1356
00:52:44,150 --> 00:52:45,232
Where is Tommy Byrne?
1357
00:52:45,232 --> 00:52:46,242
I thought that would happen.
1358
00:52:46,242 --> 00:52:47,834
He's gone through.
1359
00:52:47,834 --> 00:52:48,753
This is it.
1360
00:52:48,753 --> 00:52:50,586
This is the last lap.
1361
00:52:50,586 --> 00:52:52,713
These are the two championship leaders,
1362
00:52:52,713 --> 00:52:55,142
Quique Mansilla leads the
race and the Championship.
1363
00:52:55,142 --> 00:52:57,874
But now Byrne goes through, magnificent!
1364
00:52:57,874 --> 00:52:59,875
- And within half a lap
after I passed the other guy,
1365
00:52:59,875 --> 00:53:02,750
I was two seconds a lap
quicker on the last lap.
1366
00:53:02,750 --> 00:53:04,872
So they were holding me up that much.
1367
00:53:04,872 --> 00:53:08,866
We won the Championship
with a very small budget.
1368
00:53:08,866 --> 00:53:10,762
So it was huge deal.
1369
00:53:10,762 --> 00:53:12,685
Big, big deal.
1370
00:53:12,685 --> 00:53:16,185
Now I'm going to get to drive for McLaren.
1371
00:53:30,700 --> 00:53:32,033
We've got VHS's.
1372
00:53:34,281 --> 00:53:35,114
This one?
1373
00:53:39,969 --> 00:53:41,261
That was probably the most important day
1374
00:53:41,261 --> 00:53:42,928
of my racing career.
1375
00:53:43,895 --> 00:53:46,426
That's the day I tested the McLaren.
1376
00:53:46,426 --> 00:53:48,268
It was a race-winning Formula 1 car.
1377
00:53:48,268 --> 00:53:50,155
It would be like driving a Mercedes today
1378
00:53:50,155 --> 00:53:51,576
for a young rookie.
1379
00:53:51,576 --> 00:53:52,713
So it was huge.
1380
00:53:52,713 --> 00:53:55,789
It was just a big, big day.
1381
00:53:55,789 --> 00:53:56,961
Right there I was shitting myself.
1382
00:53:56,961 --> 00:53:58,791
That particular time, right there,
1383
00:53:58,791 --> 00:54:00,860
I definitely was getting worried
1384
00:54:00,860 --> 00:54:02,124
about the whole thing and all.
1385
00:54:02,124 --> 00:54:03,291
Could I do it?
1386
00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:06,031
- It's expensive to run a Formula 1 car.
1387
00:54:06,031 --> 00:54:07,788
It always has been, always will be,
1388
00:54:07,788 --> 00:54:10,135
so when a team puts a
car on track for the day,
1389
00:54:10,135 --> 00:54:11,320
they are serious about it.
1390
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:12,830
It's costing them a huge amount of money.
1391
00:54:12,830 --> 00:54:14,940
They're risking their
car with a young driver
1392
00:54:14,940 --> 00:54:17,437
that he is not going to
stick it in the wall.
1393
00:54:17,437 --> 00:54:18,518
The spotlight's on you.
1394
00:54:18,518 --> 00:54:19,507
There are no excuses.
1395
00:54:19,507 --> 00:54:22,908
It is a fast, competitive, well
proven car from a top team.
1396
00:54:22,908 --> 00:54:25,521
You've got to show your mettle.
1397
00:54:25,521 --> 00:54:28,271
1398
00:54:35,457 --> 00:54:38,124
- The car was just unbelievable.
1399
00:54:40,043 --> 00:54:42,964
It was so easy to drive and just so fast.
1400
00:54:42,964 --> 00:54:45,964
And I was only just getting started.
1401
00:54:48,542 --> 00:54:50,001
- The footage of that test shows a car
1402
00:54:50,001 --> 00:54:52,662
being driven beautifully
1403
00:54:52,662 --> 00:54:55,995
on the limit, using every inch of track.
1404
00:54:58,118 --> 00:55:00,998
He's turning in sharply and aggressively,
1405
00:55:00,998 --> 00:55:05,154
but absolutely right on the
edge of the car's limits.
1406
00:55:05,154 --> 00:55:08,154
That's what the stopwatch confirmed.
1407
00:55:09,027 --> 00:55:10,393
Tommy's times
1408
00:55:10,393 --> 00:55:12,732
were quicker than the drivers at the time,
1409
00:55:12,732 --> 00:55:15,425
who were John Watson, a
multiple Formula 1 winner,
1410
00:55:15,425 --> 00:55:18,089
and three-times world champion Niki Lauda.
1411
00:55:18,089 --> 00:55:20,126
Now, it just doesn't get
any better than that.
1412
00:55:20,126 --> 00:55:23,268
You know, he could have
gone faster than God!
1413
00:55:23,268 --> 00:55:24,649
He had just done that!
1414
00:55:24,649 --> 00:55:27,325
He'd gone faster than Niki Lauda.
1415
00:55:27,325 --> 00:55:29,107
- But what was impressive
was he jumped into a car
1416
00:55:29,107 --> 00:55:31,828
which he had never seen
before he did the test,
1417
00:55:31,828 --> 00:55:33,995
did a phenomenal lap time.
1418
00:55:35,955 --> 00:55:38,249
- I did a time
that would have put me
1419
00:55:38,249 --> 00:55:41,028
on the front row of the British Grand Prix
1420
00:55:41,028 --> 00:55:43,778
and with my other car I was last.
1421
00:55:45,063 --> 00:55:48,730
The fact I did a 110.1
three times in a row,
1422
00:55:49,577 --> 00:55:52,403
which is pretty impossible
to do, I'd say that's
1423
00:55:52,403 --> 00:55:54,046
really consistent,
1424
00:55:54,046 --> 00:55:57,019
certainly people would've
been talking about it.
1425
00:55:57,019 --> 00:55:57,852
Certainly!
1426
00:55:59,502 --> 00:56:00,733
- He did a 110.1.
1427
00:56:00,733 --> 00:56:01,566
I couldn't believe it.
1428
00:56:01,566 --> 00:56:02,399
I was there.
1429
00:56:02,399 --> 00:56:05,536
Now, his next job was not
to post a better time,
1430
00:56:05,536 --> 00:56:07,175
his next job was to make sure
1431
00:56:07,175 --> 00:56:10,201
that everything around
that 10.1 was amazing.
1432
00:56:10,201 --> 00:56:11,860
But that wasn't Tommy.
1433
00:56:11,860 --> 00:56:13,974
- I wasn't there in
the immediate aftermath
1434
00:56:13,974 --> 00:56:15,895
of when he got out of the cockpit
1435
00:56:15,895 --> 00:56:18,177
and who was listening to him,
what he said to the team.
1436
00:56:18,177 --> 00:56:20,255
But I think a story went around that
1437
00:56:20,255 --> 00:56:22,977
he said "if they can go faster than that,
1438
00:56:22,977 --> 00:56:25,057
"they can take their cucumber sandwiches
1439
00:56:25,057 --> 00:56:26,913
"and stick them up their
arse" or something,
1440
00:56:26,913 --> 00:56:28,535
so that sounds about right.
1441
00:56:28,535 --> 00:56:30,521
Tommy insists he never said it.
1442
00:56:30,521 --> 00:56:32,337
- But, of course, I
didn't say any of that.
1443
00:56:32,337 --> 00:56:34,193
But at this stage the
rumour mill was going with
1444
00:56:34,193 --> 00:56:35,697
"Tommy, you can," you know,
1445
00:56:35,697 --> 00:56:37,137
I only had to open my mouth
1446
00:56:37,137 --> 00:56:40,108
and somebody would just add
what they wanted onto it.
1447
00:56:40,108 --> 00:56:43,620
- He did all he had to do
from within the cockpit.
1448
00:56:43,620 --> 00:56:45,789
That is all he was required to do.
1449
00:56:45,789 --> 00:56:47,622
He passed with A-star.
1450
00:56:48,737 --> 00:56:50,593
But it is the out of the car performance
1451
00:56:50,593 --> 00:56:53,593
that, you know, sealed Tommy's fate.
1452
00:56:54,558 --> 00:56:56,827
- The management of McLaren
1453
00:56:56,827 --> 00:56:58,593
wiped their hands off him.
1454
00:57:00,236 --> 00:57:02,935
His cocky nature didn't
quite sit well with a very
1455
00:57:02,935 --> 00:57:07,081
English-minded set-up of
Ron Dennis and McLaren,
1456
00:57:07,081 --> 00:57:10,914
which was ultra-corporate,
ultra-professional.
1457
00:57:12,097 --> 00:57:14,264
He was far too big a risk.
1458
00:57:22,113 --> 00:57:23,953
- Autosport comes out Thursday morning
1459
00:57:23,953 --> 00:57:25,953
and the Motoring News
comes out Wednesday night
1460
00:57:25,953 --> 00:57:27,756
and I looked at it and
it was like, basically
1461
00:57:27,756 --> 00:57:29,916
a couple of words in one of the magazines
1462
00:57:29,916 --> 00:57:33,446
and the other one said
"Byrne, fast but too cocky."
1463
00:57:33,446 --> 00:57:35,241
I went, "Shit."
1464
00:57:35,241 --> 00:57:37,104
For once I didn't say a word, you know?
1465
00:57:37,104 --> 00:57:39,516
So that was a bit of a let-down, you know?
1466
00:57:39,516 --> 00:57:42,183
I wasn't expecting it, actually.
1467
00:57:44,250 --> 00:57:45,870
- Ron Dennis' quotes played down
1468
00:57:45,870 --> 00:57:48,716
the level of Tommy's performance
1469
00:57:48,716 --> 00:57:51,340
and he felt that just confirmed
1470
00:57:51,340 --> 00:57:53,588
that he was never going to get
1471
00:57:53,588 --> 00:57:55,070
an opportunity from Ron Dennis.
1472
00:57:55,070 --> 00:57:57,975
He felt that he had blown his chance.
1473
00:57:57,975 --> 00:58:00,238
And everything was hanging
on that in his mind,
1474
00:58:00,238 --> 00:58:02,137
and when it didn't happen,
1475
00:58:02,137 --> 00:58:03,838
he just threw himself to the wind.
1476
00:58:03,838 --> 00:58:04,838
That was it.
1477
00:58:06,252 --> 00:58:08,096
- I think at that level,
1478
00:58:08,096 --> 00:58:09,473
Tommy really wasn't one of them.
1479
00:58:09,473 --> 00:58:10,723
He did not fit!
1480
00:58:11,771 --> 00:58:12,868
He did not fit.
1481
00:58:12,868 --> 00:58:15,335
And I would say an awful lot of it down to
1482
00:58:15,335 --> 00:58:17,668
where he and we started off.
1483
00:58:19,973 --> 00:58:21,733
Going from Dundalk over there,
1484
00:58:21,733 --> 00:58:23,413
and working his way through.
1485
00:58:23,413 --> 00:58:24,933
He wasn't of the cut
1486
00:58:24,933 --> 00:58:28,589
of some of the more sophisticated people.
1487
00:58:28,589 --> 00:58:30,570
And the Formula 1 men, you know
1488
00:58:30,570 --> 00:58:33,653
it's a small, small group of people
1489
00:58:33,653 --> 00:58:35,589
and I think they closed the book on him.
1490
00:58:35,589 --> 00:58:37,667
The word was put around,
1491
00:58:37,667 --> 00:58:41,551
"Keep him out of here, we don't need him."
1492
00:58:41,551 --> 00:58:42,693
- I tried hard
1493
00:58:42,693 --> 00:58:45,151
for four or five years to
get to Formula 1 and I did.
1494
00:58:45,151 --> 00:58:46,469
But after that was all over
1495
00:58:46,469 --> 00:58:48,053
and then obviously the drinking,
1496
00:58:48,053 --> 00:58:49,050
then, you know
1497
00:58:49,050 --> 00:58:50,770
the drugs got a little bit more
1498
00:58:50,770 --> 00:58:52,783
and I did some serious partying.
1499
00:58:52,783 --> 00:58:57,533
And I ended up taking enough
to kill a buffalo, you know?
1500
00:58:58,971 --> 00:59:01,829
I went out with a
photographer friend of mine
1501
00:59:01,829 --> 00:59:03,386
the night before the test
1502
00:59:03,386 --> 00:59:05,567
and he gave me a bunch of
this white powder stuff,
1503
00:59:05,567 --> 00:59:07,247
cocaine that he had.
1504
00:59:07,247 --> 00:59:09,747
I'm going to an awards show,
now would be a good time to
1505
00:59:09,747 --> 00:59:11,344
do it again.
1506
00:59:11,344 --> 00:59:13,875
So I snorted up two lines,
1507
00:59:13,875 --> 00:59:15,883
and an hour later, another two lines,
1508
00:59:15,883 --> 00:59:17,403
just two big huge lines.
1509
00:59:17,403 --> 00:59:18,796
And another two lines later on.
1510
00:59:18,796 --> 00:59:20,502
Still only twelve o'clock in the day.
1511
00:59:20,502 --> 00:59:21,963
1512
00:59:21,963 --> 00:59:23,006
As I got closer to the awards,
1513
00:59:23,006 --> 00:59:24,662
I had to take a few more lines
1514
00:59:24,662 --> 00:59:28,022
just to get the same kind of
hit that I had earlier on.
1515
00:59:28,022 --> 00:59:29,963
And it's like I'm wired.
1516
00:59:29,963 --> 00:59:31,240
I'm just all over the place.
1517
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,538
I'm just, da, da, da, da, da.
1518
00:59:33,538 --> 00:59:35,694
And then I just had to
keep taking more and more.
1519
00:59:35,694 --> 00:59:36,983
And then when I got to the table
1520
00:59:36,983 --> 00:59:40,546
sitting around I'm just
talking to everybody.
1521
00:59:40,546 --> 00:59:43,531
So after, I think I picked
up a bunch of prizes,
1522
00:59:43,531 --> 00:59:46,185
I can't snort any more
of that cocaine because
1523
00:59:46,185 --> 00:59:48,630
my nose is hurting so bad.
1524
00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:49,869
So I went to my friend Stuart,
1525
00:59:49,869 --> 00:59:51,244
"Hey, I got a bunch of this cocaine stuff,
1526
00:59:51,244 --> 00:59:54,654
"I can't take it anymore, do you want it?"
1527
00:59:54,654 --> 00:59:56,289
Stuart comes back and he says,
1528
00:59:56,289 --> 00:59:59,788
"That's not cocaine, that's speed."
1529
00:59:59,788 --> 01:00:02,202
I went, "Well, you know, speed, cocaine,
1530
01:00:02,202 --> 01:00:04,004
"It's the same difference, isn't it?"
1531
01:00:04,004 --> 01:00:06,087
He goes, "No, not really"
1532
01:00:08,500 --> 01:00:10,602
At this stage, it's too late,
I got so much in my system.
1533
01:00:10,602 --> 01:00:12,109
It's three or four o'clock in the morning,
1534
01:00:12,109 --> 01:00:13,193
I drove back to the house
1535
01:00:13,193 --> 01:00:15,320
where I got the stuff in the first place.
1536
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:16,667
He said,
1537
01:00:16,667 --> 01:00:19,120
"I hope you didn't take much
of that stuff, did you?"
1538
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:20,387
I went,
1539
01:00:20,387 --> 01:00:22,926
"Yes, yes, a lot actually.
1540
01:00:22,926 --> 01:00:24,217
"Like half of it."
1541
01:00:24,217 --> 01:00:25,050
"Oh, Jesus Christ,
1542
01:00:25,050 --> 01:00:27,860
"I just took a tiny bit of it
and I was up for two days."
1543
01:00:27,860 --> 01:00:30,633
So, he put me in his room.
1544
01:00:30,633 --> 01:00:32,330
There was nothing happening,
there's no sleep coming,
1545
01:00:32,330 --> 01:00:34,400
my heart was just racing.
1546
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,295
I just lay there.
1547
01:00:36,295 --> 01:00:39,553
I lay there, I lay there,
for three fucking days.
1548
01:00:39,553 --> 01:00:40,847
And depressed.
1549
01:00:40,847 --> 01:00:42,090
Very, very depressed
1550
01:00:42,090 --> 01:00:44,367
It's like it's, my life was over.
1551
01:00:44,367 --> 01:00:47,770
I'm lucky to be alive, I guess.
1552
01:00:47,770 --> 01:00:49,268
I mean, I was just going through life like
1553
01:00:49,268 --> 01:00:50,938
there was no tomorrow.
1554
01:00:50,938 --> 01:00:53,938
1555
01:00:59,092 --> 01:01:00,852
Yeah, don't worry about it.
1556
01:01:00,852 --> 01:01:02,349
We'll have you come in,
we'll talk about it,
1557
01:01:02,349 --> 01:01:04,016
We'll take a look and figure it out.
1558
01:01:04,016 --> 01:01:05,516
You're doing fine.
1559
01:01:06,532 --> 01:01:09,365
Tenth and twelfth, those guys are.
1560
01:01:10,234 --> 01:01:11,734
I got a few ideas.
1561
01:01:14,052 --> 01:01:15,210
The good news is
1562
01:01:15,210 --> 01:01:16,946
you got a bunch of time right there.
1563
01:01:16,946 --> 01:01:18,297
- Yeah, step on it, yeah.
1564
01:01:18,297 --> 01:01:19,194
- The bad news is
1565
01:01:19,194 --> 01:01:20,901
you made a couple of big mistakes.
1566
01:01:20,901 --> 01:01:21,734
- Uh-huh.
1567
01:01:21,734 --> 01:01:23,510
- Just If you can just hit
a couple of these marks,
1568
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:24,826
there's a lot of time.
1569
01:01:24,826 --> 01:01:25,659
- Yeah.
1570
01:01:25,659 --> 01:01:27,513
I think the next time might
have been a bit cleaner.
1571
01:01:27,513 --> 01:01:29,632
- Okay, well, actually you hit it there,
1572
01:01:29,632 --> 01:01:31,514
and that's a miss,
1573
01:01:31,514 --> 01:01:32,930
and that's middle of the road.
1574
01:01:32,930 --> 01:01:34,531
So right there, there's
nearly half a second.
1575
01:01:34,531 --> 01:01:35,364
- Yeah.
1576
01:01:35,364 --> 01:01:36,197
- You know?
1577
01:01:36,197 --> 01:01:37,754
I'm a professional driver coach,
1578
01:01:37,754 --> 01:01:40,170
I can tell them how to act, obviously,
1579
01:01:40,170 --> 01:01:43,228
and I can tell them
where to be on the track.
1580
01:01:43,228 --> 01:01:45,434
I can't do it for them.
1581
01:01:45,434 --> 01:01:47,370
It's up to them then to take
that information and go out
1582
01:01:47,370 --> 01:01:49,937
and change it on the track and use it.
1583
01:01:49,937 --> 01:01:52,767
So, good news and bad news.
1584
01:01:52,767 --> 01:01:54,239
If you can fix all that--
1585
01:01:54,239 --> 01:01:55,284
- That's all good news to me.
1586
01:01:55,284 --> 01:01:56,682
- God knows, yeah, I mean,
1587
01:01:56,682 --> 01:01:57,515
but can you remember it?
1588
01:01:57,515 --> 01:01:58,764
- Yeah.
- You'll be able to remember?
1589
01:01:58,764 --> 01:02:01,143
- Okay, you're not gonna get
pissed off when I tell you?
1590
01:02:01,143 --> 01:02:03,182
- No, I'm not a sensitive guy.
1591
01:02:03,182 --> 01:02:04,409
- Drinking?
1592
01:02:04,409 --> 01:02:06,155
Is that why you're losing?
1593
01:02:10,689 --> 01:02:14,167
- European racing is today or nothing.
1594
01:02:14,167 --> 01:02:15,216
Americans seem to be
1595
01:02:15,216 --> 01:02:16,993
I hate to say this about Americans,
1596
01:02:16,993 --> 01:02:21,660
but generally Americans are
all about the second chance.
1597
01:02:22,735 --> 01:02:24,932
- So here I am in America in 1985,
1598
01:02:24,932 --> 01:02:29,225
starting a whole new
career again at the bottom.
1599
01:02:29,225 --> 01:02:31,855
- He's still got no money
when he went to America.
1600
01:02:31,855 --> 01:02:33,912
He is still scratching about,
1601
01:02:33,912 --> 01:02:38,660
but he is a gun for hire,
so he gets opportunities.
1602
01:02:38,660 --> 01:02:42,495
He still thought he would
probably end up making
1603
01:02:42,495 --> 01:02:46,084
his millions in motor racing somehow.
1604
01:02:46,084 --> 01:02:48,394
- This time I
wasn't quite as serious,
1605
01:02:48,394 --> 01:02:50,695
so, maybe a little bit more partying.
1606
01:02:50,695 --> 01:02:54,218
Actually, I started to
enjoy racing a little bit.
1607
01:02:54,218 --> 01:02:56,196
- The feeder series to IndyCar,
1608
01:02:56,196 --> 01:02:59,188
Indy Lights, or ARS, as
it was initially called,
1609
01:02:59,188 --> 01:03:02,817
Tommy did very well and he
wasn't in the best cars,
1610
01:03:02,817 --> 01:03:04,314
wasn't in the best teams.
1611
01:03:04,314 --> 01:03:07,434
He takes pretty much any
opportunity that anybody offers him
1612
01:03:07,434 --> 01:03:09,485
and he makes good use of
them and he does well.
1613
01:03:09,485 --> 01:03:10,412
- In turn number 11,
1614
01:03:10,412 --> 01:03:12,135
his final pass through here,
1615
01:03:12,135 --> 01:03:14,055
this is the man who is
going to win the race,
1616
01:03:14,055 --> 01:03:17,438
Tommy Byrne charges the line
and takes the chequered flag.
1617
01:03:17,438 --> 01:03:18,775
- It's going to be fun.
1618
01:03:18,775 --> 01:03:20,502
I'm used to that.
1619
01:03:20,502 --> 01:03:22,404
- Tommy enjoyed
the American adventure and
1620
01:03:22,404 --> 01:03:24,918
the parties and the lifestyle.
1621
01:03:24,918 --> 01:03:28,649
- I won a bunch of
races hung over in America.
1622
01:03:28,649 --> 01:03:30,317
It was just a matter of, you know,
1623
01:03:30,317 --> 01:03:32,257
just having a bit of fun
1624
01:03:32,257 --> 01:03:34,010
and winning some races at the same time.
1625
01:03:34,010 --> 01:03:36,213
- He just hung it out there,
1626
01:03:36,213 --> 01:03:38,330
and wasn't afraid to
tell you what he thought.
1627
01:03:38,330 --> 01:03:39,507
And, guess what?
1628
01:03:39,507 --> 01:03:40,539
That is what I liked
1629
01:03:40,539 --> 01:03:42,530
about Tommy from the very first day.
1630
01:03:42,530 --> 01:03:43,767
- Tommy Byrne's been around.
1631
01:03:43,767 --> 01:03:45,539
- There's wasn't a lot of
guys who were earning money,
1632
01:03:45,539 --> 01:03:47,925
maybe two or three others in
ARS/Indy Lights Championship,
1633
01:03:47,925 --> 01:03:50,647
so Tommy was, you know,
1634
01:03:50,647 --> 01:03:54,280
knocking down a nice
bit of coin each year.
1635
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:55,440
- I didn't get it.
1636
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:57,075
I thought it was a big mistake.
1637
01:03:57,075 --> 01:04:00,203
I think he should have stayed in Europe.
1638
01:04:00,203 --> 01:04:02,819
For me, there is no way
you can come from there
1639
01:04:02,819 --> 01:04:05,438
and go back to Formula 1.
1640
01:04:05,438 --> 01:04:06,452
You know, if you are good enough,
1641
01:04:06,452 --> 01:04:10,357
and if you are fast enough,
and certainly Tommy was,
1642
01:04:10,357 --> 01:04:13,933
a little window of
opportunity will always open.
1643
01:04:13,933 --> 01:04:15,183
It always does.
1644
01:04:16,931 --> 01:04:19,533
- By the time Ayrton Senna left Lotus,
1645
01:04:19,533 --> 01:04:21,091
he actually put a word in
1646
01:04:21,091 --> 01:04:23,635
to the Lotus boss, Peter Warr,
1647
01:04:23,635 --> 01:04:25,552
that he should look at Tommy,
1648
01:04:25,552 --> 01:04:29,110
but Tommy's exploits in
America didn't even register.
1649
01:04:29,110 --> 01:04:31,056
- Eddie Jordan kind of half convinced me
1650
01:04:31,056 --> 01:04:32,504
that there was a chance of me
1651
01:04:32,504 --> 01:04:34,082
still getting into a Formula 1 car.
1652
01:04:34,082 --> 01:04:35,362
I think we talked to one team, Tyrrell,
1653
01:04:35,362 --> 01:04:37,557
and I think they wanted a
couple of million pounds,
1654
01:04:37,557 --> 01:04:41,140
so, I mean, it just
wasn't going to happen.
1655
01:04:42,939 --> 01:04:45,210
- I went over and back to
Tommy a lot in America.
1656
01:04:45,210 --> 01:04:46,642
He would enjoy himself.
1657
01:04:46,642 --> 01:04:48,256
He would
1658
01:04:48,256 --> 01:04:50,896
talk about the dreams
that he still would have,
1659
01:04:50,896 --> 01:04:52,555
and his dreams now, for,
1660
01:04:52,555 --> 01:04:56,214
after Tommy didn't make it in Formula 1,
1661
01:04:56,214 --> 01:04:58,941
his dreams went into other things.
1662
01:04:58,941 --> 01:05:01,191
Different things that he would say,
1663
01:05:01,191 --> 01:05:03,358
"I'm going to do in life."
1664
01:05:15,571 --> 01:05:16,997
- This is my old house.
1665
01:05:16,997 --> 01:05:19,830
Got married and I bought this '87.
1666
01:05:20,673 --> 01:05:23,418
When I came back from
racing, this was my haven.
1667
01:05:23,418 --> 01:05:24,335
I loved it.
1668
01:05:30,459 --> 01:05:33,542
1669
01:05:35,394 --> 01:05:36,227
Well,
1670
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:39,943
this place hasn't changed much!
1671
01:05:42,976 --> 01:05:44,143
15 years, huh?
1672
01:05:45,731 --> 01:05:47,481
Last time I was here.
1673
01:05:48,885 --> 01:05:51,779
Spent a lot of good years
here, 10 good years.
1674
01:05:51,779 --> 01:05:52,612
You know?
1675
01:05:53,589 --> 01:05:54,731
Kind of sad.
1676
01:05:54,731 --> 01:05:56,491
Sad and happy.
1677
01:05:56,491 --> 01:05:57,784
Or happy and sad.
1678
01:05:57,784 --> 01:05:59,182
Yeah, look at that tiki hut.
1679
01:05:59,182 --> 01:06:00,015
1680
01:06:00,015 --> 01:06:00,973
- They're under there.
1681
01:06:21,775 --> 01:06:22,608
- Definitely, there's nothing--
1682
01:06:22,608 --> 01:06:24,024
- This is my home.
1683
01:06:24,024 --> 01:06:25,522
My kids grew up here, on the lake.
1684
01:06:25,522 --> 01:06:27,543
They learned how to swim here.
1685
01:06:27,543 --> 01:06:29,338
These guys would run around naked.
1686
01:06:29,338 --> 01:06:31,671
It was just, it was perfect.
1687
01:06:33,837 --> 01:06:37,670
It represents what I
always wanted in America.
1688
01:06:42,917 --> 01:06:44,154
When I was doing really well,
1689
01:06:44,154 --> 01:06:46,447
we had parties here,
down here on the beach,
1690
01:06:46,447 --> 01:06:48,280
and this was the life.
1691
01:06:49,334 --> 01:06:51,490
I just went racing and came back to this.
1692
01:06:51,490 --> 01:06:52,728
It was,
1693
01:06:52,728 --> 01:06:53,785
it can't get much better.
1694
01:06:53,785 --> 01:06:55,202
It was brilliant.
1695
01:07:00,513 --> 01:07:03,188
In America, I only made half the effort.
1696
01:07:03,188 --> 01:07:05,174
Half my effort was okay.
1697
01:07:05,174 --> 01:07:06,992
You always think you're going
to get a million dollars,
1698
01:07:06,992 --> 01:07:09,130
there's still always a chance, you know.
1699
01:07:09,130 --> 01:07:12,713
I was only one deal
away from the big time.
1700
01:07:14,367 --> 01:07:15,512
- Are we ever
going to see Tommy Byrne
1701
01:07:15,512 --> 01:07:16,963
in an IndyCar in the near future?
1702
01:07:16,963 --> 01:07:17,894
- I hope so.
1703
01:07:17,894 --> 01:07:19,614
I'd like to get into an
IndyCar and maybe do well,
1704
01:07:19,614 --> 01:07:21,516
rather than just get into a car
1705
01:07:21,516 --> 01:07:23,888
just to say, "Hi, I drive IndyCars."
1706
01:07:23,888 --> 01:07:24,721
I'd like to do well,
1707
01:07:24,721 --> 01:07:28,062
it would be nice to get
into a good IndyCar team.
1708
01:07:28,062 --> 01:07:30,134
- If you think about any category
1709
01:07:30,134 --> 01:07:32,074
of major motor sports in the world today,
1710
01:07:32,074 --> 01:07:34,099
you have IndyCar, 24 seats,
1711
01:07:34,099 --> 01:07:37,358
you have Formula 1, 22 seats right now.
1712
01:07:37,358 --> 01:07:41,193
Sports car racing, eight to 10 seats.
1713
01:07:41,193 --> 01:07:42,988
The total amount of that is less than
1714
01:07:42,988 --> 01:07:45,209
50 drives available globally
1715
01:07:45,209 --> 01:07:49,051
at any point in time, no
matter what generation it is.
1716
01:07:49,051 --> 01:07:50,801
That's not very many.
1717
01:07:51,670 --> 01:07:53,481
- These people have been lining
up for the last two hours
1718
01:07:53,481 --> 01:07:56,331
to get an autograph from these drivers.
1719
01:07:56,331 --> 01:07:58,329
These guys have to do what they're told
1720
01:07:58,329 --> 01:08:00,148
to a certain extent for the sponsors.
1721
01:08:00,148 --> 01:08:01,609
You're gonna piss off somebody
1722
01:08:01,609 --> 01:08:03,508
if you try to be your own personality,
1723
01:08:03,508 --> 01:08:05,841
so, basically it's all fake.
1724
01:08:08,505 --> 01:08:10,345
- There's only a small number of teams
1725
01:08:10,345 --> 01:08:12,276
in IndyCar that have the finance
1726
01:08:12,276 --> 01:08:13,588
to take on a driver,
1727
01:08:13,588 --> 01:08:16,755
and Tommy would have come with a name.
1728
01:08:19,006 --> 01:08:21,486
Other young kids in America
that were coming through
1729
01:08:21,486 --> 01:08:23,385
were dedicating their life to it,
1730
01:08:23,385 --> 01:08:26,068
but for Tommy, it was something
he did at the weekend.
1731
01:08:26,068 --> 01:08:28,446
Not from Monday morning at
eight o'clock when you got up,
1732
01:08:28,446 --> 01:08:30,046
"How do I be a better racing driver?"
1733
01:08:30,046 --> 01:08:32,265
That was a question he probably
didn't ask himself, ever.
1734
01:08:32,265 --> 01:08:34,273
- Down here
in Kelly Moss Motorsports.
1735
01:08:34,273 --> 01:08:35,710
I can't do this alone, this is not--
1736
01:08:35,710 --> 01:08:38,305
- Tommy was always running
at the front, he'd always win
1737
01:08:38,305 --> 01:08:40,693
two, three, four races a year.
1738
01:08:40,693 --> 01:08:43,921
Tommy was always a factor every weekend,
1739
01:08:43,921 --> 01:08:46,580
but winning the
Championship would have been
1740
01:08:46,580 --> 01:08:49,468
the leap that he needed
to get into IndyCar.
1741
01:08:49,468 --> 01:08:51,070
- I've been gloved within an hour,
1742
01:08:51,070 --> 01:08:53,716
we'll know who the new ARS champion is.
1743
01:08:53,716 --> 01:08:56,516
- In the three years I
did full-time ARS was '87,
1744
01:08:56,516 --> 01:09:00,168
'88 and '89, and I was going
into the last race every time
1745
01:09:00,168 --> 01:09:02,135
with a chance of winning the Championship.
1746
01:09:02,135 --> 01:09:05,126
- Tommy
Byrne is really Mr. ARS.
1747
01:09:05,126 --> 01:09:06,705
He's run every year of ARS
1748
01:09:06,705 --> 01:09:10,362
and he has done just about
everything that you can do.
1749
01:09:10,362 --> 01:09:12,335
- He knows he has a chance
1750
01:09:12,335 --> 01:09:13,737
to really go and win the Championship,
1751
01:09:13,737 --> 01:09:17,446
he's been trying for it for four years.
1752
01:09:17,446 --> 01:09:19,380
- I was leading the race,
1753
01:09:19,380 --> 01:09:21,195
the last race of the year in California,
1754
01:09:21,195 --> 01:09:23,337
and I was driving the shit out of it.
1755
01:09:23,337 --> 01:09:24,504
- But this is
the battle that's been joined
1756
01:09:24,504 --> 01:09:26,354
since the drop of the green flag.
1757
01:09:26,354 --> 01:09:27,867
- Gary, something has happened
1758
01:09:27,867 --> 01:09:29,296
directly behind you.
1759
01:09:29,296 --> 01:09:31,483
It looks as if one car
has gone off the course
1760
01:09:31,483 --> 01:09:32,815
out of turn number 11.
1761
01:09:32,815 --> 01:09:34,500
John, does it involve Byrne, maybe?
1762
01:09:34,500 --> 01:09:36,256
- I think
something's wrong with Byrne.
1763
01:09:36,256 --> 01:09:38,705
It looks like, I don't
know how Arthur Abrahams
1764
01:09:38,705 --> 01:09:40,059
got over on that part of the,
1765
01:09:40,059 --> 01:09:42,395
oh, Tommy Byrne has nowhere to go.
1766
01:09:42,395 --> 01:09:43,281
Arthur Abrahams--
1767
01:09:43,281 --> 01:09:45,118
- And your
thoughts at that point
1768
01:09:45,118 --> 01:09:46,765
when you realized you were
about to lose the Championship?
1769
01:09:46,765 --> 01:09:48,579
- I don't think I can say it on TV.
1770
01:09:48,579 --> 01:09:49,861
Oh, bleep!
1771
01:09:50,824 --> 01:09:53,126
So that day I lost the Championship
1772
01:09:53,126 --> 01:09:56,614
and $80,000 and the Triple
Crown, and I lost a lot,
1773
01:09:56,614 --> 01:09:58,302
and the chance to get into IndyCars.
1774
01:09:58,302 --> 01:10:01,440
You know, so I lost it all in one day.
1775
01:10:01,440 --> 01:10:03,190
It just wasn't to be.
1776
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:06,402
- I don't think we ever had a conversation
1777
01:10:06,402 --> 01:10:08,466
that just said, hey,
where are we going here?
1778
01:10:08,466 --> 01:10:10,007
Is this our life?
1779
01:10:10,007 --> 01:10:11,570
Are we going to be able to maintain
1780
01:10:11,570 --> 01:10:13,117
our position in motor racing?
1781
01:10:13,117 --> 01:10:14,444
I think,
1782
01:10:14,444 --> 01:10:17,023
I think I realized it a
little bit sooner than Tommy,
1783
01:10:17,023 --> 01:10:19,242
I mean, he was able, through his results,
1784
01:10:19,242 --> 01:10:21,461
to keep the ball rolling
a little bit longer.
1785
01:10:21,461 --> 01:10:23,538
I kind of peeled off the track
1786
01:10:23,538 --> 01:10:25,517
a little bit before Tommy did.
1787
01:10:25,517 --> 01:10:26,934
- Right on level.
1788
01:10:29,581 --> 01:10:33,973
I should have stopped, you
know, in '89 and got a job.
1789
01:10:33,973 --> 01:10:34,806
It just wasn't to be.
1790
01:10:34,806 --> 01:10:38,041
And at that stage now, '90, '91,
1791
01:10:38,041 --> 01:10:40,318
I do a couple of half-assed races
1792
01:10:40,318 --> 01:10:44,134
and when I was lapped by my team-mate,
1793
01:10:44,134 --> 01:10:45,950
Vince Neil from Motley Crue,
1794
01:10:45,950 --> 01:10:49,596
I knew it was kind of
all over at that point.
1795
01:10:49,596 --> 01:10:51,429
And then, that was it.
1796
01:10:53,561 --> 01:10:55,711
Probably started drinking
a little bit too much
1797
01:10:55,711 --> 01:10:58,727
at that stage and smoking the pot.
1798
01:10:58,727 --> 01:11:03,489
I would say at the end, I was
just worn down at that stage.
1799
01:11:03,489 --> 01:11:06,144
Things weren't going too good at home,
1800
01:11:06,144 --> 01:11:07,282
you know, with my wife.
1801
01:11:07,282 --> 01:11:09,114
It's like...
1802
01:11:09,114 --> 01:11:10,241
- In his room.
1803
01:11:10,241 --> 01:11:11,299
Taylor!
1804
01:11:11,299 --> 01:11:13,145
- There was some issues, you know.
1805
01:11:13,145 --> 01:11:15,820
I was coming to the end.
1806
01:11:15,820 --> 01:11:19,137
And it was just always hanging
over your head, you know.
1807
01:11:19,137 --> 01:11:20,794
And no money whatsoever.
1808
01:11:20,794 --> 01:11:22,521
Hadn't got a pot to piss in.
1809
01:11:22,521 --> 01:11:24,604
So I had to do something.
1810
01:11:25,676 --> 01:11:27,975
- You had different
categories across the globe,
1811
01:11:27,975 --> 01:11:30,012
you would have Formula 1 at the epicentre
1812
01:11:30,012 --> 01:11:31,335
of world motorsport.
1813
01:11:31,335 --> 01:11:32,791
You'd have IndyCar in America
1814
01:11:32,791 --> 01:11:35,015
and then as you come down the ladder
1815
01:11:35,015 --> 01:11:38,420
to the different categories
that you would parachute out to,
1816
01:11:38,420 --> 01:11:42,329
and you'd then drop down to another level
1817
01:11:42,329 --> 01:11:43,641
and then another level,
1818
01:11:43,641 --> 01:11:46,003
and then somewhere below all those levels
1819
01:11:46,003 --> 01:11:48,540
was racing in Mexico.
1820
01:11:48,540 --> 01:11:51,957
1821
01:11:55,618 --> 01:11:57,114
- I got a phone
call from Alberto Lozano,
1822
01:11:57,114 --> 01:11:57,947
my team owner.
1823
01:11:57,947 --> 01:11:59,436
He kind of invited me down
1824
01:11:59,436 --> 01:12:01,833
and he ended up giving me $2,000 a race
1825
01:12:01,833 --> 01:12:04,357
and the full mini bar and all expenses.
1826
01:12:04,357 --> 01:12:06,340
So, I mean, I was making decent money.
1827
01:12:06,340 --> 01:12:08,463
- Took a very dark turn in Mexico
1828
01:12:08,463 --> 01:12:10,519
because the sort of characters
1829
01:12:10,519 --> 01:12:14,769
that were able to fund
Tommy's racing were unusual.
1830
01:12:16,540 --> 01:12:17,721
- I was only in Mexico.
1831
01:12:17,721 --> 01:12:20,284
The first visit, I met this guy, Orchio.
1832
01:12:20,284 --> 01:12:23,534
But I would just mention to Orchio that
1833
01:12:24,856 --> 01:12:26,201
if we had an Italian engine,
1834
01:12:26,201 --> 01:12:27,855
I think we could win that next race.
1835
01:12:27,855 --> 01:12:29,118
So then, he would go to my team owner
1836
01:12:29,118 --> 01:12:31,857
and buy the $30,000 engine.
1837
01:12:31,857 --> 01:12:35,648
So he put a lot of money
into the team that way.
1838
01:12:35,648 --> 01:12:38,358
- Don't ask where the money came from and
1839
01:12:38,358 --> 01:12:40,278
don't ask about the lifestyle around it,
1840
01:12:40,278 --> 01:12:43,830
but Tommy had to fit in
with that in order to
1841
01:12:43,830 --> 01:12:47,757
continue getting drives,
which he happily did
1842
01:12:47,757 --> 01:12:50,611
until it got too crazy even for Tommy.
1843
01:12:50,611 --> 01:12:53,028
1844
01:12:57,015 --> 01:12:58,182
- Pretty good.
1845
01:12:59,206 --> 01:13:01,286
- Mexico was just a total mess.
1846
01:13:01,286 --> 01:13:04,601
It was just partying and whores.
1847
01:13:04,601 --> 01:13:06,592
That's all Mexico was.
1848
01:13:06,592 --> 01:13:09,788
But he wasn't paying for
whores, I can assure you.
1849
01:13:09,788 --> 01:13:10,621
Somebody else was.
1850
01:13:12,192 --> 01:13:14,332
- It was very,
very crazy.
1851
01:13:16,449 --> 01:13:18,251
It was a lot of drinking down there,
1852
01:13:18,251 --> 01:13:19,969
a lot of partying down there.
1853
01:13:19,969 --> 01:13:21,329
Just lots of it.
1854
01:13:21,329 --> 01:13:22,929
And they're very wealthy.
1855
01:13:22,929 --> 01:13:24,388
I just went along with it.
1856
01:13:24,388 --> 01:13:27,063
What I was supposed to do?
1857
01:13:27,063 --> 01:13:28,107
- There was a room
1858
01:13:28,107 --> 01:13:29,739
that you nearly could not get into
1859
01:13:29,739 --> 01:13:33,481
because of boxes of beer in the house,
1860
01:13:33,481 --> 01:13:36,062
all got to do with his sponsorship.
1861
01:13:36,062 --> 01:13:40,312
The guy was living an
oblivious life at that point.
1862
01:13:41,641 --> 01:13:43,281
- Where he thought he should be
1863
01:13:43,281 --> 01:13:45,378
was world champion, and here he was,
1864
01:13:45,378 --> 01:13:49,262
he was stuck in a rut with
a drug baron in Mexico,
1865
01:13:49,262 --> 01:13:52,100
not really a nice place to be.
1866
01:13:52,100 --> 01:13:54,820
His contemporaries, who
he'd completely blown away,
1867
01:13:54,820 --> 01:13:57,859
were now F1 drivers,
earning vast fortunes.
1868
01:13:57,859 --> 01:14:01,672
So that would have hurt and
that kept the wounds alive.
1869
01:14:01,672 --> 01:14:04,622
- I can't think of a
driver that was at Tommy's level
1870
01:14:04,622 --> 01:14:06,215
that's ever ended up
1871
01:14:06,215 --> 01:14:09,364
on the margins of racing like that.
1872
01:14:09,364 --> 01:14:13,281
He fell probably further
than anybody's fallen.
1873
01:14:16,900 --> 01:14:18,884
- Probably could have
stayed in Mexico longer,
1874
01:14:18,884 --> 01:14:20,804
except Orchio had his,
1875
01:14:20,804 --> 01:14:23,137
we had a bunch of girls in the house
1876
01:14:23,137 --> 01:14:27,060
and next thing is we
hear gunshots upstairs.
1877
01:14:27,060 --> 01:14:30,451
And then Orchio comes to
the top of the stairway,
1878
01:14:30,451 --> 01:14:32,366
completely naked,
1879
01:14:32,366 --> 01:14:34,300
and he's got a gun in his hand.
1880
01:14:34,300 --> 01:14:35,902
And I'm going, "Jesus, Orchio,"
1881
01:14:37,151 --> 01:14:37,984
"You crazy."
1882
01:14:37,984 --> 01:14:38,817
He goes,
1883
01:14:39,650 --> 01:14:41,025
and he shoots at me and missed.
1884
01:14:41,025 --> 01:14:43,703
And the girls are running
down the stairway, naked,
1885
01:14:43,703 --> 01:14:45,247
tits are flying everywhere.
1886
01:14:45,247 --> 01:14:47,307
And they're running past me,
"Tommy, help me, help me!
1887
01:14:47,307 --> 01:14:49,580
"He's loco, very loco!"
1888
01:14:49,580 --> 01:14:51,756
And that was, "To hell with this."
1889
01:14:51,756 --> 01:14:53,971
I turned round back in the
room and locked the door.
1890
01:14:53,971 --> 01:14:56,979
That's when I left and I didn't go back.
1891
01:14:56,979 --> 01:15:00,077
And then Alberto called me two weeks later
1892
01:15:00,077 --> 01:15:02,296
and he said that Orchio was dead.
1893
01:15:02,296 --> 01:15:04,916
Yeah, he drowned in his swimming pool.
1894
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:29,696
When I came back from Mexico,
1895
01:15:29,696 --> 01:15:32,446
it was over, I didn't race again.
1896
01:15:33,419 --> 01:15:35,499
Most of your life's behind you
1897
01:15:35,499 --> 01:15:40,091
and it didn't work out
the way it should have.
1898
01:15:40,091 --> 01:15:42,415
There's no more racing,
there's no more winning
1899
01:15:42,415 --> 01:15:46,757
and then our relationship
was gone to shit.
1900
01:15:46,757 --> 01:15:47,840
We were done.
1901
01:15:48,757 --> 01:15:51,507
And then, it all fell apart here.
1902
01:15:52,698 --> 01:15:54,357
People get fed up, you
know, you're complaining,
1903
01:15:54,357 --> 01:15:55,979
you're calling people, "Boo-hoo."
1904
01:15:55,979 --> 01:15:58,205
You know, "Lost my wife, she left me,"
1905
01:15:58,205 --> 01:16:00,515
and people really don't care, you know,
1906
01:16:00,515 --> 01:16:03,854
I was one of those boo-hoo type guys.
1907
01:16:03,854 --> 01:16:04,917
Well, I did all the begging.
1908
01:16:04,917 --> 01:16:06,975
I did use all that stuff,
"Please come back,"
1909
01:16:06,975 --> 01:16:08,550
you know, da, da, da, da, da.
1910
01:16:08,550 --> 01:16:10,357
That didn't work.
1911
01:16:10,357 --> 01:16:11,739
I didn't have the kids for a while
1912
01:16:11,739 --> 01:16:13,977
because they were with
their mum, and it was hard.
1913
01:16:13,977 --> 01:16:15,755
Just lying there on the couch with my beer
1914
01:16:15,755 --> 01:16:19,032
and you'd look over and
they weren't there anyone.
1915
01:16:19,032 --> 01:16:22,795
That was probably the worst part for me.
1916
01:16:22,795 --> 01:16:24,134
- I went out to visit him
1917
01:16:24,134 --> 01:16:27,014
and he was living in a
caravan beside a lake,
1918
01:16:27,014 --> 01:16:28,517
and he didn't want me to come with him
1919
01:16:28,517 --> 01:16:30,531
'cause he didn't want me
to see what he was doing
1920
01:16:30,531 --> 01:16:35,531
and he was gathering ferns,
he was working as a labourer.
1921
01:16:35,595 --> 01:16:37,435
- I just couldn't get going,
1922
01:16:37,435 --> 01:16:38,779
I just couldn't get going.
1923
01:16:38,779 --> 01:16:40,955
It was easier to drink and smoke pot
1924
01:16:40,955 --> 01:16:43,819
and do my work out in the woods
1925
01:16:43,819 --> 01:16:45,797
than it was to, you know,
1926
01:16:45,797 --> 01:16:50,371
to go back looking for racing
jobs, go back on the road.
1927
01:16:50,371 --> 01:16:51,753
- He says to me,
1928
01:16:51,753 --> 01:16:53,751
"You probably think I'm a failure.
1929
01:16:53,751 --> 01:16:55,389
"You probably think I'm
a terrible failure."
1930
01:16:55,389 --> 01:16:57,831
And I said, "Tommy, we've all got things
1931
01:16:57,831 --> 01:17:00,610
"that haven't worked
out for us in our lives,
1932
01:17:00,610 --> 01:17:02,508
"the dice might not have rolled well.
1933
01:17:02,508 --> 01:17:04,586
"But everybody respects
the talent you have,
1934
01:17:04,586 --> 01:17:06,551
"everybody respects what you've done,
1935
01:17:06,551 --> 01:17:09,415
"and more than that,
it's you that you like,
1936
01:17:09,415 --> 01:17:11,791
"not the fact that you drove a bloody Formula 1 car."
1937
01:17:14,753 --> 01:17:16,791
- He was very low.
1938
01:17:16,791 --> 01:17:20,252
I don't know how he really
got himself back together.
1939
01:17:20,252 --> 01:17:22,335
I just really don't know.
1940
01:17:25,612 --> 01:17:28,362
- I was losing my kids, you know.
1941
01:17:29,575 --> 01:17:30,994
Even though in the end I ended up
1942
01:17:30,994 --> 01:17:33,069
getting custody of the kids,
1943
01:17:33,069 --> 01:17:34,855
but it was rough.
1944
01:17:34,855 --> 01:17:36,012
It was nothing,
1945
01:17:36,012 --> 01:17:39,845
that's when I needed
some stability, job-wise.
1946
01:17:48,033 --> 01:17:49,255
- When I started working with him,
1947
01:17:49,255 --> 01:17:51,714
here at the Mid Ohio Sports
Car course at the school,
1948
01:17:51,714 --> 01:17:53,351
he was still a pretty bitter guy.
1949
01:17:53,351 --> 01:17:57,154
You know, it was hard for
him to still kind of admit
1950
01:17:57,154 --> 01:17:59,431
that his racing career is over.
1951
01:17:59,431 --> 01:18:01,991
And maybe Tommy coming
into that group of guys
1952
01:18:01,991 --> 01:18:03,770
that were so comfortable with saying,
1953
01:18:03,770 --> 01:18:05,335
"Yeah, we used to do that,"
1954
01:18:05,335 --> 01:18:09,097
it kind of let him realize
that the past was the past.
1955
01:18:09,097 --> 01:18:11,111
And I think that in and of itself
1956
01:18:11,111 --> 01:18:14,444
added stability to Tommy's life, and it,
1957
01:18:16,176 --> 01:18:18,994
it's probably not too far out to say it,
1958
01:18:18,994 --> 01:18:21,411
it could have saved his life.
1959
01:18:22,469 --> 01:18:23,302
- Good stop.
1960
01:18:23,302 --> 01:18:25,705
- In '94, when I started
working with Ohio,
1961
01:18:25,705 --> 01:18:27,972
sometimes I would do,
1962
01:18:27,972 --> 01:18:30,418
I think I did 120 days one year
1963
01:18:30,418 --> 01:18:31,794
and then I was starting to do some
1964
01:18:31,794 --> 01:18:33,410
little bit coaching on the side.
1965
01:18:33,410 --> 01:18:36,042
The thing was that, in '94,
'95, things were getting better
1966
01:18:36,042 --> 01:18:38,406
and the house was gone, renting and stuff,
1967
01:18:38,406 --> 01:18:41,150
so things were, for sure, picking up.
1968
01:18:41,150 --> 01:18:44,150
And then, of course, I met Michelle.
1969
01:18:45,050 --> 01:18:49,050
And that was my old
girlfriend of mine from '84.
1970
01:18:50,104 --> 01:18:51,944
I met her again and then
things obviously got
1971
01:18:51,944 --> 01:18:53,361
a lot better with her.
1972
01:18:53,361 --> 01:18:57,819
The boys were there, growing
up, it was kind of cool.
1973
01:18:57,819 --> 01:18:59,885
- In 1998, we met again, and
1974
01:18:59,885 --> 01:19:03,713
he was more serious,
Tommy, still joked around.
1975
01:19:03,713 --> 01:19:07,046
But there was an underlying seriousness,
1976
01:19:07,883 --> 01:19:09,668
maybe a sadness.
1977
01:19:09,668 --> 01:19:12,352
But I don't think that that sadness
1978
01:19:12,352 --> 01:19:15,069
is following him around now.
1979
01:19:15,069 --> 01:19:16,536
- I'll wear it tonight.
1980
01:19:17,786 --> 01:19:20,242
- As time went on, I
think he started realizing
1981
01:19:20,242 --> 01:19:23,320
maybe how he should
have handled his career,
1982
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:24,961
what he should have done.
1983
01:19:24,961 --> 01:19:26,857
But I think he's able to let that go.
1984
01:19:26,857 --> 01:19:28,221
But you know what?
1985
01:19:28,221 --> 01:19:30,040
I personally don't think he's ever
1986
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:32,082
gonna get away from it.
1987
01:19:32,082 --> 01:19:34,002
But the racing is part of him.
1988
01:19:34,002 --> 01:19:35,981
It will always be part of him.
1989
01:19:35,981 --> 01:19:37,595
I don't think he can ever,
1990
01:19:37,595 --> 01:19:40,637
he cannot box it up and put
it away like memorabilia.
1991
01:19:40,637 --> 01:19:42,054
It's part of him.
1992
01:19:43,319 --> 01:19:44,955
- A lot of people think I'm a millionaire.
1993
01:19:44,955 --> 01:19:46,591
- Aren't you a millionaire?
1994
01:19:46,591 --> 01:19:47,424
- No.
1995
01:19:47,424 --> 01:19:48,257
Not really.
1996
01:19:48,257 --> 01:19:49,434
I'm just giving an example of
1997
01:19:49,434 --> 01:19:52,389
what it's like sometimes
being sort of a superstar.
1998
01:19:52,389 --> 01:19:55,128
But I don't think I am at all.
1999
01:19:55,128 --> 01:19:55,961
Yet.
2000
01:20:08,577 --> 01:20:10,060
- It's very easy to be critical
2001
01:20:10,060 --> 01:20:10,981
of the things around Tommy
2002
01:20:10,981 --> 01:20:13,878
that didn't give Tommy what he needed,
2003
01:20:13,878 --> 01:20:15,667
You have to ask you a question.
2004
01:20:15,667 --> 01:20:18,084
Did he not wanted that badly?
2005
01:20:19,500 --> 01:20:22,250
Did he give up everything for it?
2006
01:20:26,391 --> 01:20:29,062
Sometimes you just have to play the game.
2007
01:20:29,062 --> 01:20:33,729
I often ask, "Did Tommy ever
play the game well enough?"
2008
01:20:46,881 --> 01:20:48,102
- I did chase.
2009
01:20:48,102 --> 01:20:50,182
I just didn't chase their way.
2010
01:20:50,182 --> 01:20:52,265
I had my way of doing it.
2011
01:20:53,180 --> 01:20:56,319
Every day I thought about
getting to the next level,
2012
01:20:56,319 --> 01:20:57,900
every fucking day.
2013
01:20:57,900 --> 01:21:00,662
I just did it a different way.
2014
01:21:00,662 --> 01:21:01,900
I do know one thing.
2015
01:21:01,900 --> 01:21:03,599
Nobody gives a shit.
2016
01:21:03,599 --> 01:21:05,761
I was pissed off too long.
2017
01:21:05,761 --> 01:21:07,900
I'm worn out, it's time to move on,
2018
01:21:07,900 --> 01:21:10,817
because I'm not pissed off anymore.
2019
01:21:12,875 --> 01:21:15,246
I met a lot of people on my way
and I made a lot of friends.
2020
01:21:15,246 --> 01:21:17,829
It hasn't been a terrible life.
2021
01:21:18,881 --> 01:21:21,627
I just lost out on about
100 million dollars.
2022
01:21:21,627 --> 01:21:22,544
That's all.
2022
01:21:23,305 --> 01:22:23,661
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