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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:08,631 --> 00:00:10,089 You look like you need a rest. 2 00:00:10,631 --> 00:00:12,839 Truthfully, my branding story isn't nearly as bad 3 00:00:12,923 --> 00:00:14,732 as some of the other stories that have emerged. 4 00:00:14,756 --> 00:00:15,839 I am desperate. 5 00:00:16,047 --> 00:00:18,714 I don't know what else we can do at this point. 6 00:00:19,255 --> 00:00:22,756 I've decided to go on the record and expose this. 7 00:00:23,506 --> 00:00:25,339 The New York Times is the last attempt 8 00:00:25,422 --> 00:00:26,923 to just blow this thing open. 9 00:00:29,631 --> 00:00:32,296 The greatest fear that everyone was expressing 10 00:00:32,546 --> 00:00:35,089 was the fear of legal retaliation. 11 00:00:36,422 --> 00:00:39,089 NXIVM is trying to get me arrested on three fronts. 12 00:00:39,631 --> 00:00:43,923 Putting myself out there and being the face of this is terrifying. 13 00:00:44,172 --> 00:00:46,339 I was the first significant person 14 00:00:46,422 --> 00:00:48,422 in the entire organization to ever leave. 15 00:00:48,923 --> 00:00:52,089 Buckle your seat belt. They're coming for you. 16 00:00:58,964 --> 00:01:01,422 Mommy, can I have a waffle? 17 00:01:01,506 --> 00:01:03,172 - For breakfast? - Yeah. 18 00:01:03,255 --> 00:01:04,798 Yeah. 19 00:01:05,297 --> 00:01:06,506 Hello? 20 00:01:09,005 --> 00:01:10,839 Hold on. Let me look for it. 21 00:01:14,255 --> 00:01:16,255 Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a sec, Troy. 22 00:01:16,339 --> 00:01:18,381 Mommy! - Edmondson: Wow. 23 00:01:18,464 --> 00:01:20,297 Mommy! 24 00:01:23,631 --> 00:01:25,673 You know the "MeToo" thing, right? 25 00:01:25,756 --> 00:01:27,047 Mm-hmm. 26 00:01:27,130 --> 00:01:28,964 If this Harvey Weinstein story had broke 27 00:01:29,047 --> 00:01:31,673 and I hadn't experienced what happened in ESP, 28 00:01:31,756 --> 00:01:34,422 I would be this equally not supportive. 29 00:01:34,506 --> 00:01:36,106 Or like, not as compassionate, apathetic, 30 00:01:36,130 --> 00:01:38,523 because I'd be like, why, why wouldn't they just leave the room? 31 00:01:38,547 --> 00:01:41,464 You know, if anybody's ever been in an abusive relationship, 32 00:01:41,547 --> 00:01:43,047 it's no different. 33 00:01:45,381 --> 00:01:48,547 You spend most of your time defending yourself. 34 00:01:51,464 --> 00:01:53,506 Oh, my God. 35 00:01:57,631 --> 00:01:59,464 Look at the Bill Cosby thing. 36 00:01:59,547 --> 00:02:00,923 Look at the Harvey Weinstein thing. 37 00:02:01,005 --> 00:02:03,130 There isn't a place in our culture right now 38 00:02:03,214 --> 00:02:05,589 where women who have these abuses happen to them 39 00:02:05,673 --> 00:02:07,381 can go and get taken seriously. 40 00:02:07,464 --> 00:02:11,297 Unfortunately, you have to use the media to do that. 41 00:02:20,673 --> 00:02:22,297 "Waking up this morning 42 00:02:22,381 --> 00:02:24,673 "to almost every woman friend of mine with this status 43 00:02:24,756 --> 00:02:26,464 "moved me to tears, and then rage. 44 00:02:26,547 --> 00:02:29,464 "I used to think that these things never happened to me, 45 00:02:29,547 --> 00:02:31,130 "but it has. 46 00:02:31,214 --> 00:02:34,506 "In England at a rave. In Israel in a bathroom. 47 00:02:34,589 --> 00:02:36,547 "And most recently in Knox Woods, 48 00:02:36,631 --> 00:02:38,714 "Clifton Park, New York. 49 00:02:41,047 --> 00:02:44,756 "Naked, pinned down, mutilated, and videotaped." 50 00:02:49,047 --> 00:02:50,506 "Me too." 51 00:03:42,339 --> 00:03:44,881 I just got a notification. 52 00:03:44,964 --> 00:03:47,214 - A - notification about what? 53 00:03:47,297 --> 00:03:48,857 - Really? - It's, like, popping up. 54 00:03:48,881 --> 00:03:51,089 - Holy shit! Holy shit! - You just got it? Let's see. 55 00:03:51,172 --> 00:03:53,923 - Look! - "To join the self-help group's inner circle, 56 00:03:54,005 --> 00:03:56,923 "some women provided compromising material about themselves. 57 00:03:57,005 --> 00:03:59,547 Then they were held down and branded." 58 00:03:59,631 --> 00:04:00,831 It's happening. 59 00:04:00,881 --> 00:04:02,482 Wow, no, this shit's about to explode. 60 00:04:02,506 --> 00:04:04,065 It's front page of the "New York Times." 61 00:04:04,089 --> 00:04:06,547 - This is what we wanted! - That's very good. 62 00:04:06,631 --> 00:04:08,673 Oh, my God! Oh, my God! 63 00:04:08,756 --> 00:04:11,464 With the "MeToo" shit, this is going viral. 64 00:04:12,547 --> 00:04:14,172 Holy fuck. Nip! 65 00:04:14,255 --> 00:04:17,339 I'm front page of the "New York" fucking "Times." 66 00:04:18,673 --> 00:04:22,005 Oh, my God. 67 00:04:23,130 --> 00:04:24,798 Oh, my God. 68 00:04:24,881 --> 00:04:26,839 Wow. - 69 00:04:26,923 --> 00:04:29,589 - Shit, Sarah. - Oh, my God. There's a picture of my brand. 70 00:04:31,339 --> 00:04:33,964 "Albany, last March, five women gathered in a home near here 71 00:04:34,047 --> 00:04:37,589 to enter a secret sisterhood they were told was created to empower women." 72 00:04:37,673 --> 00:04:41,255 "A copy of a text message Mr. Raniere sent 73 00:04:41,339 --> 00:04:43,631 "to a female follower indicates 74 00:04:43,714 --> 00:04:45,839 "that he knew women were being branded, 75 00:04:45,923 --> 00:04:50,547 and the symbols designed incorporated his initials." 76 00:04:50,631 --> 00:04:54,881 "If it were Abraham Lincoln's or Bill Gates' initials, 77 00:04:54,964 --> 00:04:56,255 no one would care." 78 00:04:56,339 --> 00:04:58,381 That's what he said to somebody? 79 00:05:00,673 --> 00:05:03,506 "Several former members have asked state authorities 80 00:05:03,589 --> 00:05:05,297 "to investigate the group's activities, 81 00:05:05,381 --> 00:05:08,047 but officials have declined to pursue action." 82 00:05:08,130 --> 00:05:10,130 Yep. 83 00:05:10,214 --> 00:05:13,214 Fuck you all. Shitheads. 84 00:05:16,297 --> 00:05:18,172 Hold on. Mark's calling. 85 00:05:18,255 --> 00:05:19,798 - Hi. - Holy fuck. 86 00:05:19,881 --> 00:05:22,214 My phone has just been going, like I'm literally, 87 00:05:22,297 --> 00:05:24,690 - phone call to phone call to phone call. - Oh, my God. 88 00:05:24,714 --> 00:05:26,857 Like, I gotta go. Here's Mark. Gotta go. Here's Mom. 89 00:05:26,881 --> 00:05:29,398 - Gotta go. There's a reporter. There's the... - There's my chiropractor. 90 00:05:29,422 --> 00:05:31,440 There's my chiropractor. I missed my chiropractic appointment. 91 00:05:31,464 --> 00:05:33,690 In some ways, this is like, like another beginning now. 92 00:05:33,714 --> 00:05:35,474 Yeah, no, the fireworks are gonna start. 93 00:05:35,506 --> 00:05:37,339 There's a certain, like, unloading 94 00:05:37,422 --> 00:05:39,297 - of emotion going on. - Yeah. 95 00:05:39,381 --> 00:05:41,214 I love you, Bonnie. 96 00:05:41,297 --> 00:05:42,547 I love you, Sarah. 97 00:05:42,631 --> 00:05:44,839 No, seriously. I really fuckin' love you. 98 00:05:44,923 --> 00:05:47,005 - You were so brave. - I love you, too. 99 00:05:47,089 --> 00:05:48,589 We're having a moment. 100 00:05:48,673 --> 00:05:51,214 You were the bravest, first one. 101 00:05:51,297 --> 00:05:54,923 That must have been scary as fuck to try and leave when you did. 102 00:05:57,339 --> 00:06:00,589 It's just... This is crazy. 103 00:06:00,673 --> 00:06:02,255 This is gonna be a roller coaster. 104 00:06:02,339 --> 00:06:05,422 It's gonna have inertia going one way, inertia going the other. 105 00:06:05,506 --> 00:06:08,339 But I think it's a steady climb, 106 00:06:08,422 --> 00:06:11,839 - towards, whatever. Justice. Whatever. I mean... - Absolutely. 107 00:06:11,923 --> 00:06:13,297 What are they gonna do now? 108 00:06:13,381 --> 00:06:15,301 What is the worst-case scenario they're gonna do? 109 00:06:15,339 --> 00:06:17,047 Yep. Agreed. 110 00:06:17,130 --> 00:06:19,297 Love you. Bye. 111 00:06:22,589 --> 00:06:24,381 Barry, it's Catherine Oxenberg. 112 00:06:24,464 --> 00:06:26,464 I just finished reading the article, 113 00:06:26,547 --> 00:06:29,130 and I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. 114 00:06:30,047 --> 00:06:32,589 This is gonna help save my daughter. 115 00:06:32,673 --> 00:06:34,506 I'm so incredibly grateful. 116 00:06:38,506 --> 00:06:40,130 - Hi! - How's it going? 117 00:06:40,214 --> 00:06:42,172 Welcome to the "New York Times" party. 118 00:06:43,798 --> 00:06:46,005 The party's gettin' started. 119 00:06:46,089 --> 00:06:48,005 Hi. Just to let you know, you're on speaker. 120 00:06:48,089 --> 00:06:49,690 There's a bunch of ex-ESPians at my house. 121 00:06:49,714 --> 00:06:51,714 We're having a "New York Times" party. 122 00:06:51,798 --> 00:06:54,381 - Hey, guys. - Hey. 123 00:06:54,464 --> 00:06:57,297 Everyone's on their phone, texting, tweeting. 124 00:06:57,381 --> 00:06:59,172 Sending it to people who are still in, 125 00:06:59,255 --> 00:07:00,732 making sure the right person sends it, 126 00:07:00,756 --> 00:07:03,756 so we don't trigger their pride. 127 00:07:06,005 --> 00:07:08,523 We're a little, we're a little, we're a little... 128 00:07:08,547 --> 00:07:10,047 Oh, someone's trying to... 129 00:07:10,130 --> 00:07:13,422 Barbara Bouchey is trying to call me right now. 130 00:07:13,506 --> 00:07:15,464 - Oh, my God. - 131 00:07:15,547 --> 00:07:18,047 Should I answer that? 132 00:07:18,130 --> 00:07:21,047 Some people say, "I'm too busy! 133 00:07:21,130 --> 00:07:23,089 I can't squeeze anything in!" 134 00:07:23,172 --> 00:07:25,106 You're exactly the type of person that needs the program. 135 00:07:25,130 --> 00:07:28,923 You know why? Your life is obviously controlling you. 136 00:07:29,005 --> 00:07:31,839 - Sarah? - Hi, Barb. 137 00:07:38,339 --> 00:07:40,589 Yeah. I think that was very smart. 138 00:07:40,673 --> 00:07:42,089 And I posted the "MeToo." 139 00:07:42,172 --> 00:07:44,297 You should go on my Facebook and check it out. 140 00:07:51,464 --> 00:07:52,631 Thank you. 141 00:07:54,214 --> 00:07:55,673 Yeah. 142 00:07:56,547 --> 00:07:58,422 So, I just... 143 00:08:01,047 --> 00:08:03,339 No. You're not alone anymore. 144 00:08:03,422 --> 00:08:05,981 You guys already know this from Mark. Barbara was my field trainer. 145 00:08:06,005 --> 00:08:07,690 Barb taught me... taught me everything. 146 00:08:07,714 --> 00:08:08,981 - Everything you know? - Everything I know. 147 00:08:09,005 --> 00:08:10,631 - That was, that was her? - That was her. 148 00:08:10,714 --> 00:08:12,857 You told me that story, but I didn't know it was Barbara Bouchey. 149 00:08:12,881 --> 00:08:15,255 - I guess her name was blacklisted back then. - Yeah. 150 00:08:15,339 --> 00:08:17,172 - Now you're back. - Now you're back. 151 00:08:39,214 --> 00:08:42,134 Well, I'm hoping perhaps the authorities will take another look. 152 00:08:53,172 --> 00:08:54,964 So this is it. 153 00:08:55,047 --> 00:08:59,589 These are the old... VHS. 154 00:08:59,673 --> 00:09:01,172 I haven't seen them in ten years. 155 00:09:01,255 --> 00:09:04,005 And so, we're gonna be watching them for the first time. 156 00:09:06,881 --> 00:09:08,756 April 2009, 157 00:09:08,839 --> 00:09:12,297 myself and eight key women resigned. 158 00:09:12,381 --> 00:09:15,297 We thought that people would wake up at NXIVM, 159 00:09:15,381 --> 00:09:19,214 that we could get the government involved, and hold Keith accountable. 160 00:09:19,297 --> 00:09:21,297 This needs to stop. 161 00:09:21,381 --> 00:09:24,214 It's manipulative and deceptive, 162 00:09:24,297 --> 00:09:26,923 and not transparent, and you don't know that. 163 00:09:30,839 --> 00:09:33,506 Of course, it didn't do anything. 164 00:09:38,714 --> 00:09:41,547 Yes, and I decided to surprise Keith. 165 00:09:41,631 --> 00:09:44,881 His father gave me some videos when he was a little kid, 166 00:09:44,964 --> 00:09:46,589 and so I compiled that. 167 00:09:52,172 --> 00:09:55,381 This was his song that he would play for me all the time, 168 00:09:55,464 --> 00:09:57,589 by Led Zeppelin, that says "thank you." 169 00:09:57,673 --> 00:10:01,172 So, of course, I put it in there, 'cause, you know... 170 00:10:01,255 --> 00:10:02,881 I'm a romantic. 171 00:10:05,547 --> 00:10:09,047 - That's me. So... - Why'd you make this tape? 172 00:10:09,130 --> 00:10:11,005 It was his birthday. 173 00:10:11,089 --> 00:10:15,798 And, you know, I... At this point now, was in love with him. 174 00:10:19,631 --> 00:10:23,589 So, yeah, so I started the trend of creating tribute videos. 175 00:10:23,673 --> 00:10:26,047 I did one for Nancy for her birthday. 176 00:10:38,714 --> 00:10:40,923 Okay, are you ready? 177 00:10:41,005 --> 00:10:43,339 Who is Nancy Salzman to you? 178 00:10:44,381 --> 00:10:47,464 Nancy Salzman, I met in the late '80s. 179 00:10:47,547 --> 00:10:51,756 Nancy was a therapist, and I was referred to her for stress management. 180 00:10:51,839 --> 00:10:54,673 My mom died when I was eight. My dad was a severe alcoholic. 181 00:10:54,756 --> 00:10:57,464 And, uh, I would get stressed out about things, 182 00:10:57,547 --> 00:11:00,172 'cause I needed to control my environment. 183 00:11:00,255 --> 00:11:03,172 So Nancy, she helped me a lot, 184 00:11:03,255 --> 00:11:04,964 and we became friends. 185 00:11:05,047 --> 00:11:07,714 And around the year 1999, 186 00:11:07,798 --> 00:11:12,673 um, she, uh, tried to convince me to take a workshop. 187 00:11:12,756 --> 00:11:17,172 She and Keith had formed the company at that time called Executive Success Programs. 188 00:11:19,255 --> 00:11:21,464 It was the first time in my life 189 00:11:21,547 --> 00:11:24,339 that I visited those wounds, 190 00:11:24,422 --> 00:11:27,089 and that childhood trauma. 191 00:11:27,172 --> 00:11:28,932 There's a part of our existence 192 00:11:29,005 --> 00:11:30,714 that is indescribable. 193 00:11:30,798 --> 00:11:32,673 Like, for example, the experience of pain. 194 00:11:32,756 --> 00:11:35,148 You could say, "Well, you have nerves that fire and go up into your brain." 195 00:11:35,172 --> 00:11:38,506 Those are signals. That's not the experience of pain. 196 00:11:38,589 --> 00:11:41,422 Because there are certain aspects where you really like pain. 197 00:11:41,506 --> 00:11:44,964 Ever have someone hit the volleyball at you fast? 198 00:11:45,047 --> 00:11:47,297 Really hard, and you receive it? 199 00:11:47,381 --> 00:11:50,214 Doesn't it feel neat when you hit it? 200 00:11:50,297 --> 00:11:51,631 You know that's pain. 201 00:11:52,464 --> 00:11:54,089 Good pain, though. 202 00:11:55,631 --> 00:11:58,881 Let's go! Ooh! Aye-ya! Oh! 203 00:11:58,964 --> 00:12:01,381 Get it, get it, get it, get it! 204 00:12:01,464 --> 00:12:04,881 Good. Oh! Uh-oh! Up. Good! 205 00:12:04,964 --> 00:12:06,422 Oh! 206 00:12:30,881 --> 00:12:32,923 The last thing I needed was a boyfriend, 207 00:12:33,005 --> 00:12:34,589 and I didn't find him attractive. 208 00:12:34,673 --> 00:12:36,506 But after taking the program, 209 00:12:36,589 --> 00:12:39,506 I began to admire and respect his mind. 210 00:12:54,673 --> 00:12:57,839 Thank you so much. 211 00:13:05,172 --> 00:13:08,297 You take my balls... You take my balls and go home? 212 00:13:08,381 --> 00:13:09,964 Wait a minute now! 213 00:13:10,047 --> 00:13:12,798 - I mean, that's a nice offer, I guess. - Like, I say that... 214 00:13:15,172 --> 00:13:17,339 Oh. 215 00:13:17,422 --> 00:13:20,756 Keith began flirting with me and pursuing me. 216 00:13:20,839 --> 00:13:22,422 Do you want to take my balls? 217 00:13:25,089 --> 00:13:26,631 But it wasn't until months later 218 00:13:26,714 --> 00:13:28,881 that I actually started dating him. 219 00:13:33,756 --> 00:13:35,714 And he would say... 220 00:13:36,714 --> 00:13:39,589 "You are not like anybody else." 221 00:13:40,923 --> 00:13:45,297 'Cause I was business woman, and I was all self-made. 222 00:13:45,381 --> 00:13:50,381 I could match him in a way that other people couldn't. 223 00:13:50,464 --> 00:13:53,464 Keith told me that we would work together 224 00:13:53,547 --> 00:13:55,506 to help make a difference in the world. 225 00:13:56,547 --> 00:13:57,714 Hello, everyone. It's, uh, 226 00:13:57,798 --> 00:13:59,798 it's an honor to be on this call this evening. 227 00:13:59,881 --> 00:14:01,255 I was 40 years old, 228 00:14:01,339 --> 00:14:03,673 and had a highly successful financial planning firm, 229 00:14:03,756 --> 00:14:05,464 a couple million dollars in the bank, 230 00:14:05,547 --> 00:14:07,315 and my business was worth a couple of million, 231 00:14:07,339 --> 00:14:09,673 and one could say I had it all. 232 00:14:09,756 --> 00:14:11,130 But I didn't. 233 00:14:11,214 --> 00:14:14,089 And I gave up making millions 234 00:14:14,172 --> 00:14:16,839 to help build the company. 235 00:14:16,923 --> 00:14:19,381 I was the first board member 236 00:14:19,464 --> 00:14:22,089 on the very first executive board. 237 00:14:22,923 --> 00:14:25,422 I created Vanguard week. 238 00:14:31,756 --> 00:14:35,589 ...They had no sales or marketing material. 239 00:14:35,673 --> 00:14:40,673 And, you know, they didn't have any professional image. 240 00:14:40,756 --> 00:14:42,631 Do you feel like a supermodel yet? 241 00:14:45,255 --> 00:14:49,005 So that's my business sense that I brought to the table. 242 00:14:53,673 --> 00:14:55,673 During my time there, 243 00:14:55,756 --> 00:14:58,297 I was personally responsible 244 00:14:58,381 --> 00:15:03,255 for probably enrolling hundreds. Maybe a thousand. 245 00:15:14,297 --> 00:15:18,089 So, 24 messages since I last looked at Facebook. 246 00:15:18,172 --> 00:15:20,839 I'm looking at Twitter now. 247 00:15:20,923 --> 00:15:22,589 Generally, the overall is, 248 00:15:22,673 --> 00:15:25,255 "Holy fuck, I'm so glad you're out. You're so brave." 249 00:15:25,339 --> 00:15:27,172 Every now and then I'm getting a, 250 00:15:27,255 --> 00:15:29,714 "What the fuck? How could you let that happen?" 251 00:15:31,339 --> 00:15:33,464 It makes me sound stupid, but whatever. 252 00:15:39,756 --> 00:15:40,756 You don't... 253 00:15:40,798 --> 00:15:42,381 People don't understand that, though. 254 00:15:42,464 --> 00:15:44,523 You don't, you don't get to be neutral. 255 00:15:44,547 --> 00:15:47,130 You're gonna get praised and punished for it. 256 00:15:48,714 --> 00:15:50,756 "I don't feel sorry for them at all. 257 00:15:50,839 --> 00:15:53,297 "These people in the Vancouver chapter were aggressive, 258 00:15:53,381 --> 00:15:56,923 "cliquey, and downright abusive in some of their recruitment tactics 259 00:15:57,005 --> 00:16:00,297 "of people within the Vancouver yoga and acting communities. 260 00:16:00,381 --> 00:16:01,881 Predators." 261 00:16:01,964 --> 00:16:04,464 Holy shit. - Wow. 262 00:16:07,297 --> 00:16:10,130 "Why would any woman subject herself to a tattoo 263 00:16:10,214 --> 00:16:13,839 after being made to say, 'Master, please brand me. It would be an honor.'" 264 00:16:15,130 --> 00:16:19,172 Sarah? Sarah? 265 00:16:21,172 --> 00:16:24,005 "It's so shockingly sad that these women felt so lost 266 00:16:24,089 --> 00:16:25,422 in their lives." 267 00:16:26,214 --> 00:16:27,631 "No red flags were flapping? 268 00:16:27,714 --> 00:16:29,839 No one thought, 'Wait a minute? What?'" 269 00:16:31,381 --> 00:16:34,547 "I know we're not supposed to blame victims, but come on." 270 00:16:45,881 --> 00:16:48,106 - No, no, no, no! - It's okay, it's okay, it's okay. 271 00:16:48,130 --> 00:16:50,005 It's okay. Come here. Come here, come here. 272 00:16:53,089 --> 00:16:56,047 This is my life in general, but it's way worse right now. 273 00:16:56,130 --> 00:16:57,839 I want Mommy! 274 00:16:57,923 --> 00:16:59,839 Okay, but, but she's busy right now, 275 00:16:59,923 --> 00:17:01,649 so you gotta give her five minutes, and then she'll come... 276 00:17:01,673 --> 00:17:03,506 No! 277 00:17:03,589 --> 00:17:05,089 Troy, Troy, look at me. 278 00:17:06,297 --> 00:17:07,214 Barb? 279 00:17:07,297 --> 00:17:09,506 The comments on the "New York Times," 280 00:17:09,589 --> 00:17:12,172 I'm really recognizing specifically how 281 00:17:12,255 --> 00:17:14,089 the main thing that Barry missed 282 00:17:14,172 --> 00:17:16,339 was the steps into getting involved. 283 00:17:16,422 --> 00:17:20,589 And the psychology behind the coercion. So... 284 00:17:21,923 --> 00:17:23,089 Yeah. 285 00:17:24,923 --> 00:17:25,964 Yep. 286 00:17:38,047 --> 00:17:39,547 Someone just sent me a link. 287 00:17:39,631 --> 00:17:42,381 "Shocking allegations about Capital Region calling group a cult." 288 00:17:42,464 --> 00:17:44,130 Let's, let's play it together. 289 00:17:44,214 --> 00:17:45,881 The report out today says that 290 00:17:45,964 --> 00:17:48,047 some female members have been branded 291 00:17:48,130 --> 00:17:49,381 with the founder's initials. 292 00:17:49,464 --> 00:17:51,184 - What? - Channel 13's Dan Bazile 293 00:17:51,214 --> 00:17:54,297 digs deeper into the underworld of cults... 294 00:17:54,381 --> 00:17:55,714 Oh, my God. 295 00:17:55,798 --> 00:17:57,190 Does that mean nobody wants to talk to me? 296 00:17:57,214 --> 00:17:58,673 They shut the door on us, 297 00:17:58,756 --> 00:18:00,714 a sure sign they didn't want to say a word 298 00:18:00,798 --> 00:18:02,589 about some serious allegations 299 00:18:02,673 --> 00:18:04,023 in the "New York Times." 300 00:18:04,047 --> 00:18:05,839 What is happening, essentially... 301 00:18:05,923 --> 00:18:07,673 Jesus. 302 00:18:07,756 --> 00:18:09,756 These are pictures of me, by the way. 303 00:18:09,839 --> 00:18:12,005 ...your lack of a self. 304 00:18:14,047 --> 00:18:15,339 The person who joins the cult 305 00:18:15,422 --> 00:18:17,172 and the person who invents the cult, 306 00:18:17,255 --> 00:18:19,798 they kind of suffer from the same disease. 307 00:18:19,881 --> 00:18:22,005 This kind of fragility, or narcissism. 308 00:18:31,839 --> 00:18:34,464 So, I'd say best-case scenario is 309 00:18:34,547 --> 00:18:36,047 there's enough public outrage 310 00:18:36,130 --> 00:18:38,673 for law enforcement to go, "Okay. We got it from here." 311 00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:47,422 - Yeah. - Look, the branding and all that, 312 00:18:47,506 --> 00:18:48,839 is the headline. Right? 313 00:18:48,923 --> 00:18:51,255 And that's the physical manifestation 314 00:18:51,339 --> 00:18:52,923 of multiple abuses, 315 00:18:53,005 --> 00:18:54,547 primarily in the emotional realm, 316 00:18:54,631 --> 00:18:56,631 which are harder to quantify, and harder to prove. 317 00:18:56,714 --> 00:19:00,673 It's very important that that's the narrative of what's being told. 318 00:19:02,255 --> 00:19:04,089 The Union... "Times Union" guy? 319 00:19:04,172 --> 00:19:06,214 - Yeah, I think so, too. - Yep. 320 00:19:09,964 --> 00:19:11,631 Oh, my goodness. 321 00:19:14,589 --> 00:19:16,214 Yeah. - 322 00:19:16,297 --> 00:19:18,923 So, what was left on the cutting room floor 323 00:19:19,005 --> 00:19:20,881 - for you, when you thought... - Yeah. A lot. 324 00:19:20,964 --> 00:19:24,464 A lot. And, you know, they broke the story, but you can, um, 325 00:19:24,547 --> 00:19:27,089 you can... you can do the rest. 326 00:19:27,172 --> 00:19:30,839 They left out the nuances of how the recruitment was done. 327 00:19:30,923 --> 00:19:34,339 If they had said, "Hey, do you wanna get Keith's and Allison's initials 328 00:19:34,422 --> 00:19:35,506 branded on your vagina?" 329 00:19:35,589 --> 00:19:37,839 I definitely would have said no. 330 00:19:37,923 --> 00:19:41,339 Um, but it was step by step by step by step. 331 00:19:41,422 --> 00:19:43,881 You know, people's boundaries and conscience 332 00:19:43,964 --> 00:19:46,130 are being messed with here. 333 00:19:46,214 --> 00:19:49,047 Keith assumes this moral high ground that he just doesn't have, 334 00:19:49,130 --> 00:19:53,547 but he's convinced an insular group of people that it exists. 335 00:19:53,631 --> 00:19:57,381 And then, they don't take in any more information from the real world. 336 00:19:57,464 --> 00:20:01,130 And also, they left out that with the women at the top, 337 00:20:01,214 --> 00:20:04,714 sex with Keith is part of the enlightenment. 338 00:20:07,214 --> 00:20:09,297 There are people sitting over in the chairs there. 339 00:20:09,381 --> 00:20:11,089 I don't think they need to. 340 00:20:11,673 --> 00:20:13,756 - Who? - To our left. 341 00:20:15,214 --> 00:20:17,047 Around 2006, 342 00:20:17,130 --> 00:20:19,172 a lot of people had bought into the belief 343 00:20:19,255 --> 00:20:22,506 that Keith was really, truly an enlightened being. 344 00:20:22,589 --> 00:20:25,339 And if you have sex with the guru, 345 00:20:25,422 --> 00:20:28,714 it actually moves your evolution. 346 00:20:28,798 --> 00:20:30,214 No, it's up here. 347 00:20:30,297 --> 00:20:33,047 But did they see a halo over his head? 348 00:20:33,130 --> 00:20:36,798 Did the bells ring, you know? No, I didn't have any of that. 349 00:20:37,798 --> 00:20:39,297 But the truth is, 350 00:20:39,381 --> 00:20:41,964 I had a lot of intimacy problems. 351 00:20:43,673 --> 00:20:45,964 If you grew up without touch, 352 00:20:46,047 --> 00:20:49,297 without cuddling, without being hugged... 353 00:20:50,339 --> 00:20:54,422 I don't know... You can't receive. 354 00:20:54,506 --> 00:20:59,172 Keith was very loving, gentle, attentive, affectionate. 355 00:20:59,255 --> 00:21:03,923 And he helped me work through a lot of that. 356 00:21:04,005 --> 00:21:08,631 To accept love, to receive love. 357 00:21:10,673 --> 00:21:14,464 I really felt that, um, he was my soulmate. 358 00:21:18,172 --> 00:21:20,464 And the women in the inner circle 359 00:21:20,547 --> 00:21:24,005 who lived with him for decades said that. 360 00:21:24,881 --> 00:21:26,923 Recorder on you. 361 00:21:28,839 --> 00:21:30,923 He was living with Karen Unterreiner. 362 00:21:32,214 --> 00:21:33,297 Pam Cafritz. 363 00:21:33,381 --> 00:21:35,089 What's Odin? 364 00:21:35,172 --> 00:21:36,673 Odin? - Woman: Mm-hmm. 365 00:21:36,756 --> 00:21:38,506 Is a Norse God. 366 00:21:38,589 --> 00:21:40,005 And Kristin Keeffe. 367 00:21:40,089 --> 00:21:41,106 Which color 368 00:21:41,130 --> 00:21:42,756 do you think I should dye my hair? 369 00:21:42,839 --> 00:21:44,881 This is an important question. 370 00:21:47,047 --> 00:21:48,798 This. Has more red. 371 00:21:48,881 --> 00:21:50,464 Can you make it lighter or darker, 372 00:21:50,547 --> 00:21:51,732 depending on how long you treat it? 373 00:21:51,756 --> 00:21:52,798 You can look back 374 00:21:52,881 --> 00:21:54,422 and always see the red flags. 375 00:21:54,506 --> 00:21:57,923 But, they presented it like, you know, a dormitory. 376 00:21:58,714 --> 00:22:00,381 When I walked into his house, 377 00:22:00,464 --> 00:22:02,839 whoever was in there made room for me to sit next to him. 378 00:22:02,923 --> 00:22:06,297 So, for all general purposes, what I could see, 379 00:22:06,381 --> 00:22:08,047 I was the girlfriend. 380 00:22:08,631 --> 00:22:10,714 There's something about me 381 00:22:10,798 --> 00:22:13,297 that I can carry on 382 00:22:13,381 --> 00:22:15,631 a very odd life. 383 00:22:15,714 --> 00:22:17,839 And in some ways... 384 00:22:19,631 --> 00:22:21,964 Yeah, it's odd in a lot of ways. 385 00:22:22,047 --> 00:22:24,172 Like again, the number of women 386 00:22:24,255 --> 00:22:25,923 that have been with me a long time. 387 00:22:26,005 --> 00:22:27,357 You've been with me almost 30 years. 388 00:22:27,381 --> 00:22:29,130 You've been with me almost 20 years. 389 00:22:29,923 --> 00:22:32,089 How does that happen? 390 00:22:32,506 --> 00:22:34,089 Why me? 391 00:22:53,506 --> 00:22:56,297 Everyone that's ever received a Hallmark card, 392 00:22:56,381 --> 00:22:59,172 someone said something about someone touching their heart. 393 00:22:59,255 --> 00:23:01,089 It sounds good and it may be true, 394 00:23:01,172 --> 00:23:05,047 but how do you express to an audience who doesn't know me at all, 395 00:23:05,130 --> 00:23:06,547 do you say, "He touches my..." 396 00:23:06,631 --> 00:23:07,964 If you saw a video about... 397 00:23:08,047 --> 00:23:11,130 A bunch of people saying a guy touches someone's heart, 398 00:23:11,214 --> 00:23:15,047 what do you get from that? Do you really get it? 399 00:23:15,130 --> 00:23:17,964 Why is that I can have a relationship with 400 00:23:18,047 --> 00:23:20,464 multiple women for a long time? 401 00:23:24,673 --> 00:23:26,047 Not for about a year. 402 00:23:28,255 --> 00:23:30,714 Woo! Ladies and gentlemen, 403 00:23:30,798 --> 00:23:33,089 put your hands together and get ready to sing 404 00:23:33,172 --> 00:23:35,172 a very happy birthday one time... 405 00:23:35,255 --> 00:23:38,589 The count of three, from everybody... One! 406 00:23:38,673 --> 00:23:41,214 Two! Three! 407 00:23:45,923 --> 00:23:48,089 Well, this is the party if you wanna... 408 00:23:48,172 --> 00:23:49,839 I think Nancy can't help herself... 409 00:24:06,297 --> 00:24:07,798 I know. 410 00:24:09,005 --> 00:24:10,839 To the. Oh, all right. 411 00:24:17,005 --> 00:24:18,005 Barbara Jeske. 412 00:24:29,381 --> 00:24:33,589 Keith said, "So I have sex with Barbara. 413 00:24:35,547 --> 00:24:37,756 What's the big deal?" 414 00:24:40,798 --> 00:24:43,339 And maybe once, twice a year, that's all, 415 00:24:43,422 --> 00:24:45,547 he had sex with her as her guru teacher. 416 00:24:50,005 --> 00:24:53,089 But then, I found out about the next woman. 417 00:24:53,172 --> 00:24:54,422 Pamela Cafritz. 418 00:24:55,673 --> 00:24:57,714 And I confronted them. 419 00:24:57,798 --> 00:25:00,589 And they didn't hold back. 420 00:25:00,673 --> 00:25:01,923 "Yep." 421 00:25:03,047 --> 00:25:06,047 And then all this other stuff came out. 422 00:25:06,881 --> 00:25:09,005 Karen Unterreiner. 423 00:25:09,089 --> 00:25:13,255 'Cause now I'm suspicious of everybody he's living with in that house. 424 00:25:16,089 --> 00:25:17,923 I'm looking for someone. 425 00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:28,005 It's getting hot. 426 00:25:28,089 --> 00:25:29,482 During my nine years there, 427 00:25:29,506 --> 00:25:31,589 there were 12 women he was intimate with. 428 00:25:33,547 --> 00:25:35,506 I was humiliated. 429 00:25:35,589 --> 00:25:38,464 I felt betrayed. I was in shock. 430 00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:44,714 But you don't know things and you don't know people, until you do. 431 00:25:45,589 --> 00:25:48,798 And everybody is a blend of good and bad. 432 00:25:51,130 --> 00:25:55,673 And you can't see the bad if you don't understand how they use the good. 433 00:26:02,964 --> 00:26:05,381 Oh, thanks, babe. Thank you. 434 00:26:05,464 --> 00:26:08,964 Okay, here we go. First radio interview. 435 00:26:09,714 --> 00:26:11,673 Thank you. 436 00:26:11,756 --> 00:26:15,130 - Sit right here. - Okay. 437 00:26:15,214 --> 00:26:19,214 The last 12 hours have been actually pretty insane. 438 00:26:19,297 --> 00:26:22,964 All of a sudden, it's like, "Holy shit. The whole world knows." 439 00:26:23,047 --> 00:26:26,297 It's hard to know how it reads to people 440 00:26:26,381 --> 00:26:28,047 who don't know about any of this. 441 00:26:28,130 --> 00:26:31,881 Because now that I'm out and I'm looking at the people who are still in, 442 00:26:31,964 --> 00:26:33,756 they just look crazy. 443 00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:37,422 And so like, the, you know, the frog in the pot of boiling water, 444 00:26:37,506 --> 00:26:41,506 what was implanted from the very beginning that's caused, 445 00:26:41,589 --> 00:26:42,964 um... 446 00:26:44,756 --> 00:26:47,297 you know, such a fracture in my psychology 447 00:26:47,381 --> 00:26:50,464 that I would even get to the point where I said, "Okay, 448 00:26:50,547 --> 00:26:53,172 Master, it would be an honor to brand me." 449 00:26:53,839 --> 00:26:56,214 Um... 450 00:26:56,297 --> 00:26:58,381 That night, it was like a horror show. 451 00:26:58,464 --> 00:27:02,047 And then there's Lauren saying, "You a green. You need to do this." And, 452 00:27:02,130 --> 00:27:04,422 "What does it mean, Sarah?" 453 00:27:04,506 --> 00:27:06,881 What does it mean to be afraid? 454 00:27:08,839 --> 00:27:11,631 Like, this is the kind of mind-fuckery. 455 00:27:11,714 --> 00:27:15,422 It was immediately always flipped back to you, being your issue. 456 00:27:17,547 --> 00:27:19,756 A lot of people are reaching out, like, "Oh, my God. 457 00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:21,255 Like, what man did this to you?" 458 00:27:21,339 --> 00:27:24,464 And technically, it was the women. 459 00:27:24,547 --> 00:27:26,547 It was the women who pinned me down. 460 00:27:26,631 --> 00:27:29,297 It was the women who scarred me. 461 00:27:29,381 --> 00:27:32,089 It was the women who did the manipulation. 462 00:27:33,464 --> 00:27:35,297 But it was under direction of a man. 463 00:27:35,381 --> 00:27:38,714 And it was all for, in my opinion, a man's pleasure. 464 00:27:40,005 --> 00:27:43,005 And I didn't really recognize how much 465 00:27:43,089 --> 00:27:46,130 that was a massive, um, 466 00:27:46,214 --> 00:27:48,964 assault on me emotionally and physically, 467 00:27:49,047 --> 00:27:51,089 and I just felt compelled to share it. 468 00:27:52,506 --> 00:27:56,798 And these women feel it's a beautiful, noble attempt 469 00:27:56,881 --> 00:27:58,172 to teach women strength, 470 00:27:58,255 --> 00:28:00,005 and to teach women empowerment. 471 00:28:00,089 --> 00:28:02,255 To be the type of women that they could be, 472 00:28:02,339 --> 00:28:04,297 and I am fucking that up for them. 473 00:28:10,631 --> 00:28:13,130 This is from Keith. "Happy birthday." 474 00:28:13,214 --> 00:28:14,756 "Dance like no one's watching you. 475 00:28:14,839 --> 00:28:16,464 "Sing like no one can hear you. 476 00:28:16,547 --> 00:28:19,005 "Love like you've never been hurt before. 477 00:28:19,089 --> 00:28:21,172 And live like it's heaven on Earth." 478 00:28:21,255 --> 00:28:24,339 And he wrote, "I just think of you every time I read this. 479 00:28:24,422 --> 00:28:25,881 I love you, Keith." 480 00:28:28,464 --> 00:28:30,714 There's a lot of people think there's nothing wrong 481 00:28:30,798 --> 00:28:34,673 with multiple consenting sexual relationships. 482 00:28:34,756 --> 00:28:37,172 And these women bought into that concept, 483 00:28:37,255 --> 00:28:41,297 and also the concept that it was the way to evolve your soul. 484 00:28:43,422 --> 00:28:45,339 I just had a problem with it all. 485 00:28:46,964 --> 00:28:49,506 We have an amazing show. 486 00:28:49,589 --> 00:28:52,714 So, once I found out about some of the other women, 487 00:28:52,798 --> 00:28:54,923 Keith stopped talking to me. 488 00:28:55,005 --> 00:28:59,005 Until the inner circle all met with me for three days. 489 00:29:00,297 --> 00:29:02,214 You know, "Keith is your soulmate." 490 00:29:02,297 --> 00:29:04,589 "What's the big deal?" 491 00:29:04,673 --> 00:29:06,547 "Makes you really angry and jealous. 492 00:29:06,631 --> 00:29:11,255 Wouldn't you rather not have those feelings anymore?" 493 00:29:12,297 --> 00:29:14,506 And I did love Keith. 494 00:29:14,589 --> 00:29:17,381 And I wanted to get through my issues. 495 00:29:17,464 --> 00:29:19,673 I didn't like feeling jealous. 496 00:29:19,756 --> 00:29:21,714 I didn't like feeling angry. 497 00:29:21,798 --> 00:29:24,589 I felt out of control. 498 00:29:24,673 --> 00:29:30,756 I gave it the Girl Scout try to not be so attached to the penis. 499 00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:34,089 But anytime Keith and I had a disagreement, 500 00:29:34,172 --> 00:29:36,255 or an argument, he'd hang up. 501 00:29:36,339 --> 00:29:39,422 And then I'd get the phone call within five minutes 502 00:29:39,506 --> 00:29:42,547 from one of those other women. 503 00:29:42,631 --> 00:29:45,547 "Keith says that you're blaming him." 504 00:29:47,130 --> 00:29:50,506 "He's flat out on the couch. You wiped him out." 505 00:29:51,589 --> 00:29:53,381 "Keith is not gonna talk to you, 506 00:29:53,464 --> 00:29:55,464 "until we work through this issue with you, 507 00:29:55,547 --> 00:29:57,297 and we give you the green light." 508 00:30:00,339 --> 00:30:04,005 They made me think that I was just crazy. 509 00:30:05,798 --> 00:30:07,798 That went on for years. 510 00:30:07,881 --> 00:30:09,673 I mean, I remember one time, 511 00:30:09,756 --> 00:30:12,589 they came in 60 days in a row. 512 00:30:12,673 --> 00:30:15,047 Groups to mentor me. 513 00:30:15,589 --> 00:30:17,172 So what is blame? 514 00:30:22,673 --> 00:30:24,381 A way to be right. 515 00:30:29,297 --> 00:30:30,881 Being a victim. 516 00:30:34,839 --> 00:30:36,798 NXIVM released a statement saying 517 00:30:36,881 --> 00:30:38,798 they firmly oppose violence and abuse. 518 00:30:38,881 --> 00:30:41,714 They also say the allegations are unfounded. 519 00:30:45,964 --> 00:30:47,756 Uh, I'm looking at India's Facebook. 520 00:30:47,839 --> 00:30:53,589 Okay, so she posted the official NXIVM statement. 521 00:30:57,047 --> 00:30:59,047 And she says, "For anyone who's read 522 00:30:59,130 --> 00:31:00,732 "the recent article from the 'New York Times, ' 523 00:31:00,756 --> 00:31:02,255 "this may help answer some questions, 524 00:31:02,339 --> 00:31:03,506 and alleviate any confusion." 525 00:31:03,589 --> 00:31:05,190 Which it doesn't. It doesn't address anything. 526 00:31:05,214 --> 00:31:06,839 It makes us even more confused. 527 00:31:06,923 --> 00:31:08,273 "Thank you for your care and concern, 528 00:31:08,297 --> 00:31:09,565 "It's been an incredibly sad situation, 529 00:31:09,589 --> 00:31:11,631 "and I've anticipated this article. 530 00:31:11,714 --> 00:31:13,714 "I am absolutely fine. Great, actually. 531 00:31:13,798 --> 00:31:16,464 "I would never put myself or the people I love into any danger. 532 00:31:16,547 --> 00:31:18,214 "These are my friends and colleagues. 533 00:31:18,297 --> 00:31:20,714 "I've never seen anything but good come out of this work. 534 00:31:20,798 --> 00:31:24,798 Please share if you feel compelled to let people know what's really going on. India." 535 00:31:28,422 --> 00:31:29,464 I doubt it. 536 00:31:32,589 --> 00:31:35,339 Uh, I think she has people pushing her. 537 00:31:35,422 --> 00:31:36,839 I mean, 538 00:31:36,923 --> 00:31:40,130 this is so hard. Oh, my God. 539 00:31:41,506 --> 00:31:45,005 So this woman says, "I don't know you as a woman and sister, 540 00:31:45,089 --> 00:31:46,798 "but I'm compelled to write to you. 541 00:31:46,881 --> 00:31:48,964 "We live in intense and confusing times, 542 00:31:49,047 --> 00:31:51,297 "and we've all a drive to feel that 543 00:31:51,381 --> 00:31:54,714 "we play a meaningful part in this mysterious life. 544 00:31:54,798 --> 00:31:56,964 "Being without meaning can be scary. 545 00:31:57,047 --> 00:32:00,005 "Not knowing how to navigate this life can be scary. 546 00:32:00,089 --> 00:32:03,714 "But maybe ask yourself, what exactly are you so invested in 547 00:32:03,798 --> 00:32:06,005 guarding, hiding, keeping in the shadows?" 548 00:32:09,839 --> 00:32:11,547 Come on. 549 00:32:14,172 --> 00:32:17,673 Before I quit, I broke up with Keith. 550 00:32:17,756 --> 00:32:21,255 And then we needed to figure out how I could work within the organization, 551 00:32:21,339 --> 00:32:23,631 which I still thought had a lot of good, 552 00:32:23,714 --> 00:32:27,464 where Keith and I had a platonic relationship. 553 00:32:27,547 --> 00:32:30,464 Well, Keith stopped talking to me. 554 00:32:30,547 --> 00:32:33,589 And you cannot be a high-ranking person in an organization 555 00:32:33,673 --> 00:32:36,714 where the leader is not talking to you. 556 00:32:36,798 --> 00:32:39,005 And then Keith and the inner circle 557 00:32:39,089 --> 00:32:43,297 secretly told people that the reason they saw me distressed 558 00:32:43,381 --> 00:32:44,714 and emotional 559 00:32:44,798 --> 00:32:48,255 was because my soul had an ethical breach. 560 00:32:49,506 --> 00:32:52,172 They actually told people I was going crazy. 561 00:32:52,255 --> 00:32:54,964 And nobody told anybody 562 00:32:55,047 --> 00:32:56,839 that I had had a relationship with Keith, 563 00:32:56,923 --> 00:32:59,381 and that it was all because I broke up with him. 564 00:33:01,339 --> 00:33:03,422 How dare I? 565 00:33:03,506 --> 00:33:04,881 Where are you going? 566 00:33:04,964 --> 00:33:07,631 No, I was just waiting to talk to you before I left. 567 00:33:07,714 --> 00:33:09,673 - I was gonna go check on Lauren. - Okay. 568 00:33:09,756 --> 00:33:12,964 By using sex and intimacy with women, 569 00:33:13,047 --> 00:33:16,089 it allowed him to then unduly influence them, 570 00:33:16,172 --> 00:33:18,422 and gain more control and power. 571 00:33:20,214 --> 00:33:23,130 In Keith's world, not having an intimate relationship 572 00:33:23,214 --> 00:33:25,506 with someone key in the organization 573 00:33:25,589 --> 00:33:27,339 was the kiss of death for him. 574 00:33:33,506 --> 00:33:36,130 He was losing control of me fast. 575 00:33:38,547 --> 00:33:41,839 I had about 40 NXIVM coaches and proctors 576 00:33:41,923 --> 00:33:44,839 who confided in me issues with leadership and hierarchy, 577 00:33:44,923 --> 00:33:47,172 and I was gaining momentum with this. 578 00:33:47,255 --> 00:33:50,214 - What is this? - This is my "V" meter. 579 00:33:51,881 --> 00:33:54,756 It tells you how close you are to being fully integrated. 580 00:33:54,839 --> 00:33:56,714 One of them was Susan Dones, 581 00:33:56,798 --> 00:33:58,839 who ran the center in Seattle. 582 00:33:58,923 --> 00:34:00,297 Two 16-days, 583 00:34:00,381 --> 00:34:04,297 - four level twos, and about 500 EMs. - Wow! 584 00:34:09,255 --> 00:34:11,547 It's like I had one foot in and one foot out. 585 00:34:11,631 --> 00:34:13,732 Well, what's the difference between a hundred percent honesty 586 00:34:13,756 --> 00:34:15,047 and a hundred percent disclosure? 587 00:34:15,130 --> 00:34:17,130 What's the difference between those? 588 00:34:27,964 --> 00:34:29,381 And, you know, 589 00:34:29,464 --> 00:34:32,005 I spent hardly any time at all with Keith Raniere, 590 00:34:32,089 --> 00:34:35,047 but I didn't like the whole, um, 591 00:34:35,130 --> 00:34:37,589 guru-y kind of thing with him. 592 00:34:37,673 --> 00:34:40,047 So, back to the whole thing about titles. 593 00:34:40,130 --> 00:34:43,047 So, we have... We all got together, and... 594 00:34:43,130 --> 00:34:45,381 "Vanguard" got the highest number of votes. 595 00:34:45,464 --> 00:34:47,506 I didn't want to be called "master." 596 00:34:49,381 --> 00:34:50,756 I asked Barbara, I said, 597 00:34:50,839 --> 00:34:53,381 "Why is Keith not talking to you?" 598 00:34:53,464 --> 00:34:55,339 And she said, "I can assure you that 599 00:34:55,422 --> 00:34:58,089 "I haven't done anything bad. 600 00:34:58,172 --> 00:35:01,047 "But I can't talk to you about why, 601 00:35:01,130 --> 00:35:03,756 um, Keith and I aren't talking." 602 00:35:03,839 --> 00:35:07,130 And so then I shared with her that I was thinking of leaving. 603 00:35:07,214 --> 00:35:09,130 And she said, "Don't leave yet. 604 00:35:09,214 --> 00:35:11,881 Come back to Albany and let's, let's talk." 605 00:35:11,964 --> 00:35:14,673 And I held a forum at my home 606 00:35:14,756 --> 00:35:17,839 to discuss the issues of NXIVM, 607 00:35:17,923 --> 00:35:20,714 with the intent to address and confront Keith. 608 00:35:20,798 --> 00:35:22,589 And that's when I found out 609 00:35:22,673 --> 00:35:28,381 the board consisted of all the women Keith had been sleeping with. 610 00:35:30,881 --> 00:35:35,506 And there were nine strong women who wanted to confront him. 611 00:37:08,214 --> 00:37:11,964 It was like, "Oh, my gosh. I'm in a cult." 612 00:37:12,047 --> 00:37:15,673 The nine of us, after 11 hours with Keith, all resigned. 613 00:37:15,756 --> 00:37:17,714 I shut my center down, 614 00:37:17,798 --> 00:37:20,005 and I told the people I trusted, 615 00:37:20,089 --> 00:37:22,798 and so, we wrote our resignation letter... 616 00:37:24,839 --> 00:37:27,839 asking for money that we believed that was owed to us. 617 00:37:27,923 --> 00:37:30,881 Some were owed commission, some were owed trainer fees. 618 00:37:30,964 --> 00:37:34,381 I asked for the value of what I believed my center was. 619 00:37:34,464 --> 00:37:38,839 Keith and Nancy personally owed me $1.6 million. 620 00:37:39,547 --> 00:37:40,756 And so, we wrote, 621 00:37:40,839 --> 00:37:42,297 "If these requests are not met, 622 00:37:42,381 --> 00:37:45,130 we are going to move forward by contacting the press." 623 00:37:49,923 --> 00:37:51,673 - - Oh, thank you. 624 00:37:51,756 --> 00:37:53,839 Please be seated. 625 00:37:53,923 --> 00:37:56,964 Am I sitting... Okay. I almost sat on the table. 626 00:37:58,673 --> 00:38:00,923 So, I'm here to give you a... 627 00:38:01,005 --> 00:38:03,339 It's sort of a... Well, it's a mixed thing. 628 00:38:03,422 --> 00:38:04,881 Um... 629 00:38:06,089 --> 00:38:07,923 I had a series of meetings. 630 00:38:08,005 --> 00:38:11,756 Um, the meetings were to give me feedback on myself, 631 00:38:11,839 --> 00:38:15,214 on the organization, on a number of different things. 632 00:38:15,297 --> 00:38:17,381 And all the feedback's valid, by the way. 633 00:38:17,464 --> 00:38:20,089 Now, the long and the short of it is, 634 00:38:20,172 --> 00:38:23,673 I think there are a group of people who are probably going to leave our community. 635 00:38:25,714 --> 00:38:28,297 It is believed, in this group, 636 00:38:28,381 --> 00:38:31,673 that I have a group of intimate relationships, 637 00:38:31,756 --> 00:38:33,422 some sexual, some not, 638 00:38:33,506 --> 00:38:36,547 and they say this intimacy is a control strategy. 639 00:38:36,631 --> 00:38:38,297 Well, clearly is. 640 00:38:38,381 --> 00:38:39,714 I have to be able to trust 'em. 641 00:38:39,798 --> 00:38:41,881 And there are things that are secret. 642 00:38:41,964 --> 00:38:43,756 I believe in strategic secret... 643 00:38:43,839 --> 00:38:47,631 Especially when I believe that there are people with bad intent. 644 00:38:47,714 --> 00:38:50,214 And I do believe that 645 00:38:50,297 --> 00:38:53,506 a very, very small minority in this group 646 00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:56,464 may not be well-intentioned. 647 00:38:56,547 --> 00:38:59,964 And in a specific case, 648 00:39:00,047 --> 00:39:03,172 there is a personal issue that I have with one of them. 649 00:39:03,255 --> 00:39:05,673 And I've worked to try to fix it, worked to try to fix it, 650 00:39:05,756 --> 00:39:07,589 to the best of my ability, and I failed. 651 00:39:08,881 --> 00:39:10,547 Where did it cross the line? 652 00:39:10,631 --> 00:39:13,673 It crossed the line when the executive board get a letter 653 00:39:13,756 --> 00:39:16,756 and essentially the letter says, 654 00:39:16,839 --> 00:39:21,297 "We want..." It works out to two... over two million dollars. 655 00:39:21,381 --> 00:39:23,798 "Uh, and if you don't give us 656 00:39:23,881 --> 00:39:27,422 "coming up this Thursday, a certified check for the two million dollars, 657 00:39:27,506 --> 00:39:30,339 um, we're going to the press." 658 00:39:30,422 --> 00:39:32,339 This is extortion. 659 00:39:32,422 --> 00:39:35,839 So, we are filing criminal charges. 660 00:39:35,923 --> 00:39:40,881 It's already in process. Um... 661 00:39:40,964 --> 00:39:45,255 This is very difficult for me, because these are people I care about. 662 00:39:45,339 --> 00:39:47,631 And people I've known a very long time. 663 00:39:55,631 --> 00:39:59,089 In some ways it's a death. In some ways it's a, a birth. 664 00:39:59,172 --> 00:40:01,798 And in some ways, it's a relief. 665 00:40:01,881 --> 00:40:03,381 I hate to say that. 666 00:40:03,464 --> 00:40:05,756 But there... a physical relief. 667 00:40:05,839 --> 00:40:09,381 I can divert, um, my attention, my focus, 668 00:40:09,464 --> 00:40:12,798 even my physical being, to some other things now. 669 00:40:15,464 --> 00:40:18,798 I have a beautiful picture in here of the two of them. 670 00:40:18,881 --> 00:40:20,631 Let me find it. 671 00:40:21,798 --> 00:40:24,172 That's Sara and Clare Bronfman. 672 00:40:25,172 --> 00:40:27,005 2005, 673 00:40:27,089 --> 00:40:30,172 Keith convinced me to become their financial planner. 674 00:40:30,798 --> 00:40:32,839 I left April 2009, 675 00:40:32,923 --> 00:40:37,255 and then what happened is, Clare Bronfman went to the Saratoga D.A., 676 00:40:37,339 --> 00:40:40,631 to tell them that her financial planner, Barbara Bouchey, 677 00:40:40,714 --> 00:40:44,631 had an ethical violation with her and she fired her because of it, 678 00:40:44,714 --> 00:40:48,005 and that Barbara Bouchey, in revenge and spite, 679 00:40:48,089 --> 00:40:51,506 tried to extort two million dollars from her and blackmail her. 680 00:40:52,673 --> 00:40:55,506 They used the resignation letter. 681 00:40:56,381 --> 00:40:58,506 Um, had a knock on my door. 682 00:40:58,589 --> 00:41:02,381 And I was being served, uh, legal documents 683 00:41:02,464 --> 00:41:05,714 that said that Keith Raniere, NXIVM, and the Bronfmans 684 00:41:05,798 --> 00:41:10,047 were going to bring civil and criminal charges against me. 685 00:41:13,005 --> 00:41:16,214 How did they take people who should have known me, 686 00:41:16,297 --> 00:41:21,047 and experienced me, and how did they twist it? 687 00:41:22,547 --> 00:41:24,673 - Yeah, we're winning, right? - No. 688 00:41:24,756 --> 00:41:26,255 No? Not yet. 689 00:41:42,464 --> 00:41:43,964 Thank you so much, Rick. 690 00:41:44,047 --> 00:41:45,839 - Okay. - All right. Bye-bye. 691 00:41:46,589 --> 00:41:47,589 Okay. 692 00:41:48,381 --> 00:41:50,172 He is a cult expert, 693 00:41:50,255 --> 00:41:52,923 and he knows Keith intimately, 694 00:41:53,005 --> 00:41:56,089 because they kept him in litigation for about 15 years. 695 00:41:57,047 --> 00:41:59,756 He's been helping me all along. 696 00:42:01,214 --> 00:42:02,839 Hey, Rick. - Ross: Hi. 697 00:42:02,923 --> 00:42:04,881 So, this is Stanley. 698 00:42:04,964 --> 00:42:06,464 Hi. 699 00:42:06,547 --> 00:42:09,422 Stanley has been a friend of mine since I was 18. 700 00:42:09,506 --> 00:42:11,673 And India actually... 701 00:42:11,756 --> 00:42:13,839 So she just texted me for the first time 702 00:42:13,923 --> 00:42:17,214 since the, uh, "New York Times" article. 703 00:42:17,297 --> 00:42:19,297 So, this is what she says. 704 00:42:19,381 --> 00:42:21,756 "Mom, I love you, but I don't agree with your approach, 705 00:42:21,839 --> 00:42:24,422 "publicly shaming me and people I care for. 706 00:42:26,214 --> 00:42:29,422 "That's not very considerate of our private relationship. 707 00:42:29,506 --> 00:42:31,381 "I've been cautious about our communication, 708 00:42:31,464 --> 00:42:33,106 "and don't think the people you're working with 709 00:42:33,130 --> 00:42:36,089 have your or mine best interests." 710 00:42:37,547 --> 00:42:40,506 What that kind of verbiage, to me, 711 00:42:40,589 --> 00:42:42,839 it's like, it's all your fault. 712 00:42:42,923 --> 00:42:45,214 NXIVM never does anything wrong. 713 00:42:45,297 --> 00:42:47,547 Keith Raniere never does anything wrong. 714 00:42:47,631 --> 00:42:50,297 They never have anything to address. 715 00:42:50,381 --> 00:42:52,631 Well, this is what I was going to say. 716 00:42:52,714 --> 00:42:55,047 "You have every right to be angry with me. 717 00:42:55,130 --> 00:42:58,381 "In spite of that, I hope you can understand that I am coming from love. 718 00:42:58,464 --> 00:43:00,297 I'm a mother afraid for her daughter." 719 00:43:00,381 --> 00:43:02,815 - Is there anything else I should change? - That, that's good. 720 00:43:02,839 --> 00:43:06,422 And, and you can say, "I respect your right to make choices, 721 00:43:06,506 --> 00:43:09,005 and I hope that you can do the same for me." 722 00:43:09,089 --> 00:43:12,422 Mm-hmm. Except that my choice is to out her publicly. 723 00:43:12,506 --> 00:43:14,422 How do I justify that? 724 00:43:14,506 --> 00:43:16,148 - I think you have to be careful. - Okay. 725 00:43:16,172 --> 00:43:18,673 - Because once you start to get into an argument... - Okay. 726 00:43:18,756 --> 00:43:20,381 That there is probably somebody, 727 00:43:20,464 --> 00:43:22,631 uh, coaching her on her text. 728 00:43:22,714 --> 00:43:24,798 And this is the training. 729 00:43:24,881 --> 00:43:28,756 So he determines the parameters of reality. 730 00:43:28,839 --> 00:43:31,422 And the women that are the closest to him 731 00:43:31,506 --> 00:43:33,631 who live in the Albany area, 732 00:43:33,714 --> 00:43:37,464 are the most controlled people in the entire group. 733 00:43:37,547 --> 00:43:41,130 We don't want to admit that that could happen to someone we love, 734 00:43:41,214 --> 00:43:44,255 but the human mind is much more fragile 735 00:43:44,339 --> 00:43:46,547 than we would like to believe. 736 00:43:46,631 --> 00:43:49,964 We are all subject to influence techniques. 737 00:43:50,047 --> 00:43:54,422 Any anybody, especially a woman, that says, 738 00:43:54,506 --> 00:43:56,631 "I'm done with you, Keith Raniere," 739 00:43:56,714 --> 00:43:58,589 he doesn't like that. 740 00:43:58,673 --> 00:44:01,089 And I've seen people who he's... 741 00:44:01,172 --> 00:44:03,673 he's utterly destroyed their life. 742 00:44:07,130 --> 00:44:08,964 - A - significant cultural event 743 00:44:09,047 --> 00:44:10,506 for the Capital region. 744 00:44:10,589 --> 00:44:14,339 The appearance of the iconic spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama. 745 00:44:14,422 --> 00:44:16,964 The Tibetan Buddhist monk who won a Nobel Peace Prize 746 00:44:17,047 --> 00:44:19,964 and who has admirers all over the globe came to Albany today, 747 00:44:20,047 --> 00:44:23,214 as a result of an invitation from the World Ethical Foundation, 748 00:44:23,297 --> 00:44:24,881 which is founded by two sisters, 749 00:44:24,964 --> 00:44:28,005 heiresses of the Seagram's liquor corporation. 750 00:44:28,089 --> 00:44:29,798 Two weeks after I quit, 751 00:44:29,881 --> 00:44:33,214 the Dalai Lama agreed to tack on Albany 752 00:44:33,297 --> 00:44:36,798 to his already 23-city tour. 753 00:44:38,422 --> 00:44:41,339 And then they milked it. I mean, it was all over their website, 754 00:44:41,422 --> 00:44:44,047 and articles went out, and, you know, letters. 755 00:44:49,255 --> 00:44:52,506 In the meantime, behind the scenes, 756 00:44:52,589 --> 00:44:55,798 my whole criminal case was going on. 757 00:44:55,881 --> 00:45:00,005 And the Bronfmans and Keith had already networked locally 758 00:45:00,089 --> 00:45:02,214 with many prominent law firms. 759 00:45:02,297 --> 00:45:04,005 The name carried weight, 760 00:45:04,089 --> 00:45:06,047 and I couldn't find an attorney. 761 00:45:08,422 --> 00:45:10,130 Who do you think wants to represent me? 762 00:45:14,172 --> 00:45:17,339 Um, well, sometimes there are some people that come 763 00:45:17,422 --> 00:45:19,673 that seem to have bad intent. 764 00:45:19,756 --> 00:45:24,464 But I, I never want to believe that. 765 00:45:24,547 --> 00:45:29,381 Um, at what point do you take action definitively? 766 00:45:29,464 --> 00:45:30,798 Oh. 767 00:45:35,464 --> 00:45:38,464 Uh, that, that, uh... 768 00:46:05,798 --> 00:46:08,339 - Oh? - 769 00:46:08,422 --> 00:46:09,422 Oh. 770 00:46:14,172 --> 00:46:15,547 Good. 771 00:46:24,047 --> 00:46:26,047 And after that, 772 00:46:26,130 --> 00:46:28,714 I have the actual NXIVM announcement. 773 00:46:29,714 --> 00:46:31,589 They announced proudly 774 00:46:31,673 --> 00:46:33,881 that they were improving things 775 00:46:33,964 --> 00:46:36,130 and they're gonna change the board. 776 00:46:38,339 --> 00:46:41,756 He took all the girlfriends off. 777 00:46:41,839 --> 00:46:43,798 And then he put Clare Bronfman, 778 00:46:43,881 --> 00:46:45,297 Emiliano Salinas, 779 00:46:45,381 --> 00:46:48,297 and Mark Vicente on the board. 780 00:46:48,381 --> 00:46:52,214 - That's what I'm talkin' about. - They kind of pulled Mark into the fold. 781 00:46:52,297 --> 00:46:54,714 The person who was my field trainer originally, 782 00:46:54,798 --> 00:46:57,172 and Mark's field trainer, is no longer in the company. 783 00:46:58,964 --> 00:47:01,422 So now in the meantime, they lost Seattle, 784 00:47:01,506 --> 00:47:03,464 because of Susan Dones quitting. 785 00:47:03,547 --> 00:47:05,547 And you had all those people in Vancouver 786 00:47:05,631 --> 00:47:09,172 that used to sometimes go down to Seattle for some classes. 787 00:47:11,339 --> 00:47:12,756 So, Mark and Sarah, 788 00:47:12,839 --> 00:47:15,130 Keith and Nancy very strategically 789 00:47:15,214 --> 00:47:18,381 took a stronger interest in them. 790 00:47:21,047 --> 00:47:23,255 We're going down the stairs. 791 00:47:24,214 --> 00:47:26,381 The front, which has a reception. 792 00:47:26,464 --> 00:47:29,172 This would be like a study hall. White board. 793 00:47:29,255 --> 00:47:32,047 And they got to open the center in Vancouver. 794 00:47:35,089 --> 00:47:38,756 You could say from image, to financial, 795 00:47:38,839 --> 00:47:41,047 they got lots of benefits. 796 00:47:42,756 --> 00:47:46,589 And as this went on, the Bronfmans started accusing me of more accusations. 797 00:47:46,673 --> 00:47:49,214 I stole their money, I misappropriated. 798 00:47:49,297 --> 00:47:52,881 They were bombarding the court. 799 00:47:52,964 --> 00:47:54,714 They said that I had, you know, 800 00:47:54,798 --> 00:47:57,172 done all of these crimes against them. 801 00:47:57,255 --> 00:48:00,089 And so I had to defend all of those. 802 00:48:02,255 --> 00:48:06,547 I think there was 360 court filings filed 803 00:48:06,631 --> 00:48:09,089 in that 10-month period of time. 804 00:48:09,172 --> 00:48:11,172 Three hundred and sixty. 805 00:48:11,255 --> 00:48:13,422 And I couldn't work during that time, 806 00:48:13,506 --> 00:48:16,589 because I had to constantly write motions 807 00:48:16,673 --> 00:48:19,673 and go to hearings, and, and that kind of stuff. 808 00:48:35,506 --> 00:48:37,464 I was broke. 809 00:48:37,547 --> 00:48:40,506 I didn't have $20 in my pocket. 810 00:48:40,589 --> 00:48:44,005 I was shuffling between being able to buy food, 811 00:48:44,089 --> 00:48:45,631 or pay my lawyers. 812 00:48:46,673 --> 00:48:49,130 I think it was, like, 2011, 813 00:48:49,214 --> 00:48:51,255 myself and a couple other people I know 814 00:48:51,339 --> 00:48:55,005 talked to the, um, New York State Attorney General, 815 00:48:55,089 --> 00:48:58,964 and we were asked to turn over lots of documents to them. 816 00:48:59,047 --> 00:49:01,255 And finally they said, "Stop sending us stuff." 817 00:49:01,339 --> 00:49:03,964 A nd we thought, "Okay, they have enough information." 818 00:49:04,047 --> 00:49:06,172 Nothing ever happened. 819 00:49:07,297 --> 00:49:09,422 Nothing ever happened. 820 00:49:09,506 --> 00:49:12,422 And the attitude was, "Well, you know, Miss Bouchey, 821 00:49:12,506 --> 00:49:15,381 "like, aren't you and Keith just bickering, like in a bad divorce? 822 00:49:15,464 --> 00:49:19,130 "And you know, really, this is just probably just a big fight. 823 00:49:19,214 --> 00:49:21,673 We've got bigger fish to fry." 824 00:49:22,964 --> 00:49:26,339 I am terrified every time the doorbell rings, 825 00:49:26,422 --> 00:49:29,631 the phone rings, every time I open up my email, 826 00:49:29,714 --> 00:49:33,422 that it is another voluminous filing. 827 00:49:33,506 --> 00:49:35,964 Groups that litigate like this 828 00:49:36,047 --> 00:49:40,130 can drag out these lawsuits for years. 829 00:49:40,214 --> 00:49:44,589 Hoping to exhaust you and drain you, 830 00:49:44,673 --> 00:49:47,255 and ultimately, to gag you. 831 00:49:50,255 --> 00:49:54,506 It took me seven years to pay off the $700,000 in legal debt. 832 00:49:54,589 --> 00:49:58,214 And I finally was able to move here and rebuild my life. 833 00:50:07,381 --> 00:50:09,547 In February 2014, 834 00:50:09,631 --> 00:50:12,589 Kristin Keeffe quit NXIVM and left. 835 00:50:13,881 --> 00:50:16,589 And I was the first person she called. 836 00:50:17,673 --> 00:50:19,047 Great job. 837 00:50:29,464 --> 00:50:32,839 You weren't scared to call me? 838 00:50:32,923 --> 00:50:34,756 Why? 839 00:51:30,798 --> 00:51:33,130 He could have been great. 840 00:51:36,172 --> 00:51:38,381 There was so much potential. 841 00:51:38,464 --> 00:51:41,464 And he did do a lot of great, good things, 842 00:51:41,547 --> 00:51:46,339 and did help thousands of people, including me. 843 00:51:59,589 --> 00:52:05,089 It's unfortunate that his addictions and flaws 844 00:52:05,172 --> 00:52:08,714 destroyed his own consciousness. 845 00:52:09,839 --> 00:52:12,631 In that, I forgive him. 846 00:52:14,714 --> 00:52:17,631 But I want to say to him, 847 00:52:17,714 --> 00:52:21,839 "You belong in jail for the rest of your life." 848 00:52:23,589 --> 00:52:27,172 You know, I don't begrudge anybody anything, 849 00:52:27,255 --> 00:52:29,589 and I don't feel bitter. 850 00:52:29,673 --> 00:52:32,297 I totally get how 851 00:52:32,381 --> 00:52:35,297 each one of you, at a young age... 852 00:52:36,714 --> 00:52:38,547 ...was influenced. 853 00:52:49,714 --> 00:52:51,381 Mm-hmm. 854 00:52:57,089 --> 00:53:00,005 We're headed to, uh, 30 Rock. 855 00:53:00,089 --> 00:53:04,130 30 Rockefeller Plaza to do the "Megyn Kelly Show." 856 00:53:04,214 --> 00:53:06,255 Everything that I'm doing right now is targeted 857 00:53:06,339 --> 00:53:08,506 to, uh, pressure the authorities to step... 858 00:53:08,589 --> 00:53:10,214 To do the right thing. 859 00:53:11,839 --> 00:53:15,130 My daughter, she said I made her look like a lunatic. 860 00:53:17,130 --> 00:53:19,589 Sad. I mean, because... 861 00:53:19,673 --> 00:53:22,839 I mean, this is the thing, and this... I want to get across on the show... 862 00:53:22,923 --> 00:53:26,673 There are times in one's life as a parent where... 863 00:53:26,756 --> 00:53:29,339 my child's safety comes first. 864 00:53:29,422 --> 00:53:33,839 And her safety is more important than her liking me right now. 865 00:53:33,923 --> 00:53:35,589 And that's a price I have to pay. 866 00:53:35,673 --> 00:53:37,964 And it's a big price, as a parent. 867 00:53:42,964 --> 00:53:45,422 Several of the women went to the authorities, 868 00:53:45,506 --> 00:53:47,255 and the authorities dismissed their claims. 869 00:53:47,339 --> 00:53:50,214 They said if a woman consents, there's nothing they can do. 870 00:53:50,297 --> 00:53:52,464 Well, I'd like to counter that, because to me, 871 00:53:52,547 --> 00:53:54,255 brainwashing is not consent. 872 00:53:54,339 --> 00:53:56,464 Blackmail is not consent. 873 00:53:56,547 --> 00:53:59,881 So what do you do now? 874 00:53:59,964 --> 00:54:02,631 Well, this is my last resort, going to the media, 875 00:54:02,714 --> 00:54:06,047 to bring awareness. Because without awareness, there can be no outrage. 876 00:54:06,130 --> 00:54:08,798 And unless there's outrage, the authorities are not gonna step in 877 00:54:08,881 --> 00:54:11,506 and do what they should do, which is shut this down, 878 00:54:11,589 --> 00:54:13,589 and stop this from happening. 879 00:54:16,839 --> 00:54:19,714 The fact that they had all the pictures of us, 880 00:54:19,798 --> 00:54:22,839 like, that was really hard. 881 00:54:24,798 --> 00:54:26,881 I felt, I felt her. 882 00:54:44,798 --> 00:54:46,464 Hi, Barb. 883 00:54:57,214 --> 00:54:59,798 Okay. Big hugs. 884 00:54:59,881 --> 00:55:03,214 Okay. Okay. Bye. 885 00:55:08,422 --> 00:55:09,589 Okay. 886 00:55:10,881 --> 00:55:12,964 In 2009, when Barbara Bouchey left 887 00:55:13,047 --> 00:55:15,381 and everybody left, I got a promotion. 888 00:55:17,547 --> 00:55:20,714 I believed the lies about them. 889 00:55:23,964 --> 00:55:25,297 Yeah. 890 00:55:25,381 --> 00:55:27,923 I mean, I'm a victim in terms of I'm a victim of a con. 891 00:55:28,005 --> 00:55:29,631 But I definitely had made choices. 892 00:55:29,714 --> 00:55:32,005 I definitely have lots of responsibility 893 00:55:32,089 --> 00:55:33,923 in many bad things that happened. 894 00:55:34,005 --> 00:55:38,547 But it's not black and white. You're not one or the other. 895 00:55:38,631 --> 00:55:41,172 - Let's have a pillow fight. - You wanna have a pillow fight? 896 00:55:41,255 --> 00:55:42,839 - Yeah. - Okay. 897 00:55:59,589 --> 00:56:02,506 Get the pillows! Get the pillows! 898 00:56:02,589 --> 00:56:05,756 - Oh, no! - Get the pillows! 899 00:56:05,839 --> 00:56:07,714 I gotcha. Oh, we're safe in here. 900 00:56:07,798 --> 00:56:09,214 - - We're safe. 901 00:56:09,297 --> 00:56:11,190 Yay! Thank you. 902 00:56:11,214 --> 00:56:13,297 This is the wonderful 903 00:56:13,381 --> 00:56:16,714 and amazing goddess, India. 904 00:56:16,798 --> 00:56:18,381 Oh! 905 00:56:21,047 --> 00:56:24,631 Oh, my God, it's the Attorney General! Oh, my God. 906 00:56:24,714 --> 00:56:27,714 I'm speechless. Holy shit! 907 00:56:27,798 --> 00:56:30,506 One of the parents of a girl who escaped 908 00:56:30,589 --> 00:56:33,214 has been in touch with the chief investigator 909 00:56:33,297 --> 00:56:34,631 in Eric Schneiderman's office, 910 00:56:34,714 --> 00:56:37,756 and he is ready to talk to me. 911 00:56:37,839 --> 00:56:39,881 Oh, my God. Oh, my God! 912 00:57:59,673 --> 00:58:01,547 He was a business man when I met him. 913 00:58:02,214 --> 00:58:04,714 All of a sudden, we were supposed to call him Vanguard. 914 00:58:05,964 --> 00:58:07,381 And that was the turning point. 915 00:58:09,297 --> 00:58:10,631 I started to feel uncomfortable 916 00:58:10,714 --> 00:58:12,756 with things going on with the company. 917 00:58:12,839 --> 00:58:14,357 I thought, "I'm gonna breakup with him, 918 00:58:14,381 --> 00:58:16,547 and that's going to be the end of the relationship." 919 00:58:17,214 --> 00:58:18,547 It was just the beginning of hell. 920 00:58:18,923 --> 00:58:23,297 This is a criminal enterprise masquerading as personal growth. 921 00:58:23,714 --> 00:58:25,005 The chief investigator 922 00:58:25,089 --> 00:58:27,047 and the attorney general has reached out. 923 00:58:27,339 --> 00:58:30,214 What we need is evidence of criminality. 924 00:58:31,464 --> 00:58:34,422 The more people that can go on the record, the better. 71362

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