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Soul is sometimes defined
as the essence of the human spirit.
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In the popular music of the 1960s,
soul meant something more tangible.
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It was a shout of joy, a cry of pain...
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and an emblem
of uninhibited self-expression.
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I describe soul music as something that
touches me and gives me goose bumps.
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And it could be a white person singing it,
or a black person, or a purple person.
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I don't care who's singing it
as long as you can lift my spirit.
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Everything we did live
came from out of soul music.
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The spiritual intensity...
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the idea of going for...
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both your spirit and your gut.
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You're talking to somebodywho's a music buff...
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especially when it comes to black music.
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Say it Loud - I'm Black and I'm Proud
by James Brown...
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Isley Brothers, It's Your Thing.
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I mean, I could go on and on.
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There's this thing about soul...
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you know, of abandoning yourself
to the songs.
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The normal definition for it would be...
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it's black music or black people
singing music, or what have you...
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but I don't agree with that...
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because I think that
everybody has their own soul...
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and I've heard the same song
by 10 different people...
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and their soul was applied to it.
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If you feel music intensely...
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and you express it that way honestly...
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then it's soul.
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It's tied a lot to, I think...
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gospel music.
I think it's secular gospel music.
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Gospel music is really...
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let's say, the bedmate...
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to R & B music.
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I remember
Mount Moriah Baptist Church...
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and the support that the people gave us.
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When we became
Gladys Knight and the Pips...
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I was just turning eight then.
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But we had our little church group...
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before we had Gladys Knight and the Pips.
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So it being my brother and sister
and my cousins...
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we all went to the same church.
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So when we formed the group, that wasthe same group that went down...
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to the Royal Peacockto perform on Sunday nights.
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And the church would just migrate
from Mount Moriah to the Royal Peacock.
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It's amazing, back there like...
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And then they had that, you know,
that holler, you know...
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And I loved that.
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They were screaming,
and I said, "My Lord!"
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I guess your music...
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I mean, what's in your body...
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I mean, what's in your soul
or the way you came up...
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somehow or another will come out...
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00:05:04,117 --> 00:05:07,985
through your fingers or come out
through your vocal chords or whatever.
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Everyone who influenced me...
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and everyone who I just idolized...
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was a gospel singer:
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Dionne Warwick, Aretha Franklin...
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Tina Turner, Patti LaBelle...
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they were all great gospel singers first.
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This is a song that could be done
as soulful and gospel...
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Maybe. Let me see.
Let me see how to do it.
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If you ask me to
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I just might change my mind
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And let you in my life forever
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Now, that might be soulful. Now, gospel.
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If you ask me to
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I just might change my mind
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And let you in my life forever
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Yeah, that's it.
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Soul is synonymous with great voicesand great entertainers.
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Each one unforgettable.
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Soul music is...
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Soul music is...
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It's just soulful.
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- Gratifying.
- How would I put it?
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It's a feeling that you have to have.
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It's not prim and proper.
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It's funky.
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James Brown.
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"I got ants in my pants
and I need to dance.
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"Some big fine mama,
come give me a chance."
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James Brown:
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That's the funkiest man in the entire world.
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He creates some of the most creative...
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00:08:02,762 --> 00:08:07,529
revolutionized rhythms
for his time and funk.
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00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,728
I mean, he's an originator. He's an original.
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I remember, first time I had a chanceto go see James Brown was...
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The line was so long,
but I didn't mind standing in that line.
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Just to get in there to see him.
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Stayed in there to see three showsbecause he had some bands that just...
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put people in frenzies.
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James Brown's influence
was one of the most powerful.
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I mean, it's evident in the groups
that can halfway dance, you know.
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It's attitude.
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He's gonna scream. He's gonna yell.
He's gonna split. He's gonna dance.
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00:09:03,289 --> 00:09:05,814
And when he says,
"One, two, three, four. Hit it..."
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00:09:05,892 --> 00:09:09,453
he's giving the MCs
something to get ill on.
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James Brown is a master.
There's one James Brown.
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The things that he has achieved hasopened the doors for many black artists.
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00:09:19,205 --> 00:09:21,503
There'll never be another James Brown.
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James Brown's stagecraftset a new standard...
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but from the late '50s into the '70she had plenty of competition.
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From the grittiest of blues styliststo the most sublime of gospel balladeers.
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00:10:05,184 --> 00:10:08,642
Sam Cooke was very important
in the development of rock 'n' roll.
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00:10:08,721 --> 00:10:11,053
I first heard Sam Cooke
singing gospel music...
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00:10:11,124 --> 00:10:13,115
when he used to singwith the Soul Stirrers...
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00:10:13,192 --> 00:10:14,887
and that's when I was a kid.
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00:10:14,961 --> 00:10:16,588
So he was one of my major influences.
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00:10:17,063 --> 00:10:19,998
From childhood, he was always talented.
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00:10:22,001 --> 00:10:24,435
That was truly a gift of God.
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I mean, he had a voice
that was mesmerizing.
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He was one of the very first black peopleto play the Copacabana...
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and make this grand splash, you know.
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And he had this big billboard
on Broadway.
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00:10:57,270 --> 00:11:01,832
I mean, he did it like it was...
I mean, first-class. Go, Sam.
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00:11:02,108 --> 00:11:04,599
He used to always say music is simplicity.
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00:11:05,011 --> 00:11:08,469
He said people would buy the news
if you sung it with a melody.
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00:11:28,234 --> 00:11:30,668
Sam Cooke and Jackie Wilson...
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were rivals in the industry.
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00:11:34,807 --> 00:11:37,332
But they were good friends.
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After they'd leave the stage,
Sam and Jackie would hang out together.
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They were very good friends.
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One of the most interesting peoplewe ever introduced is Jackie Wilson...
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00:12:01,267 --> 00:12:04,430
who had an untrained
operatic style delivery...
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00:12:04,504 --> 00:12:07,337
but who was a gymnast
and a former boxer.
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00:12:07,407 --> 00:12:09,341
Take that conglomeration,
put it together...
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00:12:09,409 --> 00:12:12,435
what a magnificent entertainer.
They called him Mr. Excitement.
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00:12:12,512 --> 00:12:14,070
He was just a great performer.
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00:12:14,147 --> 00:12:18,208
You talk about Michael Jackson spinning?
You should see Jackie Wilson spin.
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00:12:28,728 --> 00:12:31,128
He would fight at the drop of a hat.
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00:12:31,330 --> 00:12:34,094
We played at New Orleans once...
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00:12:34,233 --> 00:12:36,394
when they had a segregated audience...
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00:12:36,469 --> 00:12:38,994
and the black people sat on one side
of the stage...
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00:12:39,072 --> 00:12:41,734
and the white people
were on the other side of the stage.
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00:12:41,808 --> 00:12:46,108
And performers got whiplash trying not to
insult anybody while they performed.
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00:12:46,846 --> 00:12:50,612
And some big cracker policeman...
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00:12:50,683 --> 00:12:53,174
said something to Jackie
and he popped him.
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00:12:54,487 --> 00:12:56,114
They almost killed him.
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00:12:56,389 --> 00:13:00,792
But, I mean, that was the kind of person
you were dealing with, with Jackie.
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00:13:00,860 --> 00:13:03,624
His temper was as great as his talent.
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00:13:15,675 --> 00:13:18,872
That late '60s-R&B-type music...
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00:13:18,945 --> 00:13:21,607
was probably
some of the best music we've turned out...
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as an industry.
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00:13:23,516 --> 00:13:26,178
Each sound, each city had its own identity.
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The sound could never be duplicated
from Philadelphia.
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00:13:28,955 --> 00:13:32,083
The sound could never be duplicatedfrom Detroit.
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00:13:32,158 --> 00:13:35,127
The sound could never be duplicatedfrom Memphis.
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00:13:35,194 --> 00:13:39,460
The sound could never be duplicatedfrom Atlantic Records.
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We always went for a very strong bottom,
very pronounced bass...
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a good, rounded bass sound,
strong bass drum.
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In other words, clean funk.
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00:13:49,709 --> 00:13:54,078
Jerry Wexler's always been
a huge supporter of black music.
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00:13:57,817 --> 00:14:02,311
And Atlantic began its career
in black music.
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00:14:40,893 --> 00:14:45,796
Ray Charles wasthe Michael Jordan of music.
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00:14:47,099 --> 00:14:51,126
Ray could do anything and everything
and make it believable.
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00:14:51,204 --> 00:14:55,265
He was walking up the stairway
and out to the exit...
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00:14:55,341 --> 00:14:57,172
and I just happened to be there...
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00:14:57,243 --> 00:15:01,304
and I touched his shoulder and it was...
I thought I'd touched the Lord.
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00:15:14,227 --> 00:15:17,719
I have a very personal reason
for loving Ray like I do.
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Not only for the fact of his talent...
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00:15:19,832 --> 00:15:22,801
because he is
one of the most talented people ever...
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00:15:23,002 --> 00:15:27,598
But the very first professional gig
that I ever played in my life...
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was we played the Ray Charles showat the Apollo theater in New York.
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We'd never played a show like that...
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00:15:33,346 --> 00:15:36,247
so we didn't realize we neededprofessional band arrangements.
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We didn't have them.
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00:15:37,516 --> 00:15:40,508
We had what we call onion skins,
or lead sheets.
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00:15:40,586 --> 00:15:42,850
He sat there and did an arrangement...
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00:15:42,922 --> 00:15:45,720
to both of our songs
that we were singing on that show...
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just dry. Just like that.
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00:15:47,827 --> 00:15:49,556
I love Ray Charles.
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He's like that vintage bottle of wine.
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He's an antique.
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He is just too good to be true.
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00:16:09,515 --> 00:16:13,281
Soul music to me is something that...
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It portrays what you are...
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00:16:18,157 --> 00:16:22,651
and it digs.
It can go as deep as you allow it to go.
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And then it releases you.
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00:16:28,167 --> 00:16:29,930
And you feel great.
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00:16:30,002 --> 00:16:32,664
That soul music is good for the soul.
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00:16:35,241 --> 00:16:38,972
There was so much soul music then.
Great soul music.
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00:16:39,045 --> 00:16:41,513
Wilson Pickett was just amazing.
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00:17:06,906 --> 00:17:10,307
Well, Wilson, you know,his reputation precedes him...
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00:17:10,376 --> 00:17:13,038
and that's why they call him'"the Wicked Mr. Pickett. '"
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00:17:13,112 --> 00:17:17,276
I had been listening to some of the stuffthat he had sang on...
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00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:20,342
and almost invariably,
on these gospel things...
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00:17:20,419 --> 00:17:24,412
he would go into this "I'm gonna wait
till the midnight hour to see my Jesus."
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He would go into this chant...
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00:17:25,925 --> 00:17:29,258
and it sort of, to me,
was like an identity for him.
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00:17:29,662 --> 00:17:31,289
Wilson was a crazy man.
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00:17:32,098 --> 00:17:34,362
I loved him.
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00:17:34,767 --> 00:17:37,133
Wilson was the king of funk.
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00:17:57,189 --> 00:18:01,216
Wilson was a fantastic singer,
entertainer, too, you know.
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00:18:08,768 --> 00:18:11,965
Most of these artistsyou're talking about are unique.
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00:18:12,705 --> 00:18:14,969
They were the Memphis sound.
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00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,771
They represented
that area of the country...
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00:18:18,844 --> 00:18:21,039
that produced that music.
198
00:18:21,113 --> 00:18:24,913
That old era of Stax, with that
soulful music that came from Memphis.
199
00:18:41,867 --> 00:18:43,926
We were in a very large room.
200
00:18:44,003 --> 00:18:46,836
We were in a movie theater...
201
00:18:46,972 --> 00:18:51,170
which was not a giant theater,
but it was a pretty good-sized theater.
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00:18:51,243 --> 00:18:55,646
I've had a lot of musicologists
and a lot of musicians...
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00:18:55,714 --> 00:19:00,447
refer to the Stax records
of having this incredible delayed backbeat.
204
00:19:00,886 --> 00:19:04,617
And a lot of that really came by accident.
205
00:19:16,535 --> 00:19:18,469
The first time I heard Otis Redding...
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00:19:18,537 --> 00:19:22,530
I was driving throughsome Southern city...
207
00:19:22,608 --> 00:19:27,477
and we were listening to WLAC,a big radio station, 50,000 watts...
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00:19:27,546 --> 00:19:29,741
that came out of Nashville, Tennessee.
209
00:19:29,815 --> 00:19:34,184
And I heard this man
who was just moaning and groaning...
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00:19:34,253 --> 00:19:37,711
These arms of mine
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00:19:37,790 --> 00:19:39,485
as only he could do.
212
00:19:39,558 --> 00:19:42,994
And I said, "What is this guy doing?
What is this sound?"
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00:20:01,380 --> 00:20:04,076
I watched him
and knew he was going to be a star.
214
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:07,915
I've never seen a man master a stage
so fast in my life.
215
00:20:08,053 --> 00:20:11,614
He made me learn
how to master a stage after watching him.
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00:20:17,496 --> 00:20:20,488
Soul music is, I think,almost a state of mind.
217
00:20:20,633 --> 00:20:24,000
And you express that state of mind...
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00:20:24,703 --> 00:20:25,692
very emotionally.
219
00:20:26,138 --> 00:20:28,902
My concept of it is...
220
00:20:28,974 --> 00:20:31,238
it is music that comes from the heart.
221
00:20:31,377 --> 00:20:34,244
It might just be one word
you want to bring across...
222
00:20:34,313 --> 00:20:36,781
a certain way to put across your point.
223
00:20:36,916 --> 00:20:38,679
And I think that's what the soul is.
224
00:20:38,751 --> 00:20:41,743
It's outside of some other music
that is very structured.
225
00:20:41,820 --> 00:20:43,515
You can take some structured singers...
226
00:20:43,589 --> 00:20:46,387
that became soul singers,
they took the structure out of it.
227
00:20:46,458 --> 00:20:50,554
They base it on structure, but then
they just do what they feel impulsively.
228
00:20:56,402 --> 00:20:58,336
Aretha Franklin...
229
00:20:59,638 --> 00:21:03,665
as evidenced by how many peoplerefer to her today...
230
00:21:04,276 --> 00:21:07,439
is the living encyclopedia...
231
00:21:07,913 --> 00:21:10,177
of soul music.
232
00:21:19,224 --> 00:21:23,354
Look at how many people
borrow from and emulate...
233
00:21:23,429 --> 00:21:27,126
and idolize what she contributed.
234
00:21:27,199 --> 00:21:29,861
Her voice is just effortless.
235
00:21:29,935 --> 00:21:34,531
She doesn't even have to try, you know.
It just comes out. She's blessed.
236
00:21:34,607 --> 00:21:36,165
She's definitely blessed.
237
00:21:36,241 --> 00:21:39,267
And I remember her songs
around my house a lot.
238
00:21:49,021 --> 00:21:53,014
As far as how to record her, we justkept doing what we had been doing...
239
00:21:53,092 --> 00:21:54,582
with our rhythm and blues artists...
240
00:21:54,660 --> 00:21:57,356
to let this sound emerge and be heard.
241
00:21:57,429 --> 00:22:01,092
And not try to make it palatableto a white audience.
242
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:04,867
The idea was to record her
with great musicians...
243
00:22:05,871 --> 00:22:09,398
and put her at the piano,
and let her sing and play for herself.
244
00:22:20,085 --> 00:22:22,576
One of the reasons for some of the hits...
245
00:22:25,224 --> 00:22:28,625
at Atlantic was my gospel background...
246
00:22:28,694 --> 00:22:33,631
being merged with
the popular or R & B stylings.
247
00:22:33,932 --> 00:22:37,925
Aretha, gospel, and soul:
Totally synonymous.
248
00:22:58,991 --> 00:23:01,892
I think you look back and you look at...
249
00:23:03,362 --> 00:23:06,354
all the performers that came before you...
250
00:23:06,432 --> 00:23:08,559
and they make their own maps,
you know...
251
00:23:08,634 --> 00:23:10,568
and they leave them for you...
252
00:23:11,070 --> 00:23:12,867
if you care to read them.
253
00:23:13,105 --> 00:23:16,973
There's an art to it,and those guys were the masters.
254
00:23:17,042 --> 00:23:20,500
All the soul greats,they were the masters at it.
255
00:23:20,579 --> 00:23:22,570
Then you've got quite a few others...
256
00:23:22,648 --> 00:23:25,845
but those legends show you how to do it.
257
00:23:27,352 --> 00:23:29,479
Apart from its gospel and blues heritage...
258
00:23:29,555 --> 00:23:33,321
soul had tangled roots in the worldof independent record companies...
259
00:23:33,392 --> 00:23:36,589
which created musicfor a segregated audience.
260
00:23:37,296 --> 00:23:40,288
They were calledat that time '"race records. '"
261
00:23:42,334 --> 00:23:45,701
And it would have the word '"race'"on the record.
262
00:23:46,405 --> 00:23:48,134
The strong ones were...
263
00:23:48,207 --> 00:23:51,608
black artists coming through
the independent record companies.
264
00:23:52,678 --> 00:23:56,546
At that time,
the music was being controlled by...
265
00:23:57,783 --> 00:24:00,115
Chess, Checker, and Argo record company.
266
00:24:00,185 --> 00:24:01,777
Atlantic record company.
267
00:24:01,854 --> 00:24:05,221
Companies like that,
that were smart enough...
268
00:24:05,858 --> 00:24:08,827
to sign up black artists...
269
00:24:09,828 --> 00:24:13,696
and merchandise and market
these black artists.
270
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,694
And these entrepreneurswould get in their car...
271
00:24:18,203 --> 00:24:20,034
and go down South...
272
00:24:20,105 --> 00:24:24,269
and sell the records themselves becauseno record shop would take these records.
273
00:24:24,343 --> 00:24:26,641
So it became soul music...
274
00:24:26,712 --> 00:24:30,204
and black people
were supposed to be the ones doing it.
275
00:24:30,282 --> 00:24:32,614
And then it got to be so good...
276
00:24:32,684 --> 00:24:36,643
then everybody elsewanted to adopt soul music.
277
00:24:37,089 --> 00:24:40,786
When we recorded Little Latin Lupe Lu...
278
00:24:40,859 --> 00:24:45,193
the white stations wouldn't play it
because they quote...
279
00:24:45,697 --> 00:24:49,497
The quote was that it was "too hard rock".
280
00:24:49,935 --> 00:24:54,599
What it was, is it just sounded too black
for their white stations.
281
00:24:54,673 --> 00:24:56,971
Now, we didn't know that at the time...
282
00:24:57,042 --> 00:25:00,603
but the one thing
that we're most proud of...
283
00:25:02,147 --> 00:25:06,345
is that the black audience accepted us...
284
00:25:07,252 --> 00:25:09,447
just point-blank. And they didn't have to.
285
00:25:09,521 --> 00:25:12,456
They just flat didn't have to...
286
00:25:12,524 --> 00:25:16,620
but the great thing
about the black audience...
287
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:21,789
is that if you are emotionally cutting it...
288
00:25:22,601 --> 00:25:24,626
that's what it's all about.
289
00:25:25,237 --> 00:25:29,196
There were, in those days, four theaters
that you were required to play...
290
00:25:29,274 --> 00:25:32,710
to prove that you had sort of made it.
291
00:25:33,612 --> 00:25:38,208
They were called the Litchman chain,
and it consisted of:
292
00:25:38,283 --> 00:25:39,841
The Regal theater in Chicago...
293
00:25:40,018 --> 00:25:41,576
the Howard in Washington.
294
00:25:41,820 --> 00:25:43,583
There was the Uptown in Philadelphia...
295
00:25:44,156 --> 00:25:46,750
And the Apollo in New York City.
296
00:25:46,925 --> 00:25:49,917
You had to play those four theaters.
297
00:26:03,575 --> 00:26:05,406
On stage at the Apollo Theater...
298
00:26:05,477 --> 00:26:08,412
three generationsof soul singers reminisced.
299
00:26:09,114 --> 00:26:12,242
It was the only really black theater that...
300
00:26:12,317 --> 00:26:15,582
This was like Broadway...
I mean, this was like heaven.
301
00:26:15,654 --> 00:26:19,954
To young artists,
this was hallowed ground.
302
00:26:20,692 --> 00:26:23,160
Every great entertainer had been here.
303
00:26:23,228 --> 00:26:26,254
Like your Otis Reddings
and your James Browns.
304
00:26:26,498 --> 00:26:29,399
You got a chance
to become friends with them...
305
00:26:29,468 --> 00:26:31,060
and talk with them...
306
00:26:31,136 --> 00:26:35,038
and they give you little tidbits
on what you should do.
307
00:26:35,107 --> 00:26:39,737
So you not only got educated
about show business here...
308
00:26:39,811 --> 00:26:43,440
you got educated about the world
and about how people are.
309
00:26:57,629 --> 00:27:01,065
The Apollo Theaterand the theater circuit...
310
00:27:01,133 --> 00:27:04,967
and the different clubsthat we used to play...
311
00:27:05,037 --> 00:27:07,733
that people consideredpart of the chitlin circuit...
312
00:27:07,806 --> 00:27:09,501
it was our playground.
313
00:27:09,574 --> 00:27:12,907
It was where we learned our craft.
314
00:27:13,445 --> 00:27:16,903
The importance of the Apollo...
It just means so much to so many people.
315
00:27:16,982 --> 00:27:19,917
It could have been some place in Peoria,
but it's not.
316
00:27:19,985 --> 00:27:24,649
It happened to be in New York City
and that's where a lot of things happened.
317
00:27:24,756 --> 00:27:28,522
And there are so many great artists
that came out of that area...
318
00:27:28,593 --> 00:27:29,924
and off of that stage.
319
00:27:30,228 --> 00:27:34,096
I remember having toput my hot dogs on the light bulb.
320
00:27:34,399 --> 00:27:35,866
We had five shows a day...
321
00:27:35,934 --> 00:27:37,993
and that was my breakfast, lunch,
and dinner...
322
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:41,403
because we would play cards
with Tommy Hunt...
323
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,771
and maybe The Dells and The Spinners...
I don't know who else.
324
00:27:45,844 --> 00:27:47,038
Dionne Warwick, whoever...
325
00:27:47,112 --> 00:27:49,808
But they would always take my money.
They would always win.
326
00:27:50,148 --> 00:27:52,742
One of the things I remember the most
about the Apollo...
327
00:27:52,818 --> 00:27:56,413
is the first time we walked in there,
they had a mural on the foyer wall.
328
00:27:56,488 --> 00:27:58,649
Harry Belafonte, Sammy Davis...
329
00:27:58,924 --> 00:28:02,792
Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan,Billy Eckstine...
330
00:28:02,861 --> 00:28:05,091
All these people were on that mural.
331
00:28:05,163 --> 00:28:06,755
For me, those were the glory days.
332
00:28:06,832 --> 00:28:10,359
I mean, I got to see
one of those magic Apollo Nights...
333
00:28:11,136 --> 00:28:14,572
with James Brown and Otis Redding
on the same bill.
334
00:28:15,540 --> 00:28:18,771
And this is my Oscar, you know.
335
00:28:18,844 --> 00:28:21,108
These are my Oscars.
These are my memories.
336
00:28:21,179 --> 00:28:24,171
These are more precious to me...
337
00:28:25,250 --> 00:28:29,346
than any recording contract or...
338
00:28:29,755 --> 00:28:32,189
an award that I could receive...
339
00:28:32,257 --> 00:28:36,557
because they were mine,
and I still keep them inside.
340
00:28:41,266 --> 00:28:43,791
The range of the chitlin circuit mirroredthe scope...
341
00:28:43,869 --> 00:28:47,896
of the music pouring out of the studiosfrom the East Coast to the Midwest.
342
00:28:47,973 --> 00:28:50,942
In Detroit, Motown reigned supreme.
343
00:28:56,181 --> 00:28:58,445
The songs were really songs...
344
00:28:58,517 --> 00:29:00,747
that reached all across the world...
345
00:29:00,819 --> 00:29:05,449
and they reached people
probably at that time...
346
00:29:05,524 --> 00:29:09,290
when Motown just opened up the doors
to everybody.
347
00:29:09,661 --> 00:29:11,492
See, I was a big Motown child.
348
00:29:11,563 --> 00:29:15,624
I was a heavily influenced Motown child.
349
00:29:15,801 --> 00:29:17,564
For me, it was...
350
00:29:17,636 --> 00:29:21,333
whatever the Beatles meant
to those screaming teenagers...
351
00:29:21,406 --> 00:29:23,169
Motown meant to me.
352
00:29:23,675 --> 00:29:27,611
I don't know if they were listening to us,
but we were certainly listening to them.
353
00:29:27,679 --> 00:29:30,705
I don't think we were trying to copy them
by any means...
354
00:29:30,782 --> 00:29:34,878
but you couldn't turn on the radio
without hearing a Motown record.
355
00:29:49,568 --> 00:29:52,298
What made Motown Motown
was Berry Gordy...
356
00:29:52,537 --> 00:29:56,997
who is one of the most unique people,
I'm sure, to ever be on this planet.
357
00:29:59,111 --> 00:30:03,172
And to have him at the helm
of what was going on...
358
00:30:04,249 --> 00:30:08,208
was just the most wonderful thing...
359
00:30:08,286 --> 00:30:11,619
for a music-making young person...
360
00:30:12,057 --> 00:30:16,016
who had access to Detroit at that time.
361
00:30:23,368 --> 00:30:25,768
We first knew him as a songwriter.
362
00:30:25,837 --> 00:30:29,796
In fact, when he started Motown...
When he started this record company...
363
00:30:29,875 --> 00:30:31,433
whatever he was going to name it...
364
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:34,001
He asked us would we go with him
to that company.
365
00:30:34,079 --> 00:30:36,639
We just said no,
because we didn't think he had a chance.
366
00:30:36,715 --> 00:30:38,012
We said "absolutely not."
367
00:30:38,083 --> 00:30:40,677
Black guy with a tape recorder
starting a record company.
368
00:30:40,752 --> 00:30:42,083
Yes, right. Okay.
369
00:31:08,914 --> 00:31:10,711
The first one is so magical.
370
00:31:10,782 --> 00:31:13,546
Because you can see
all your dreams come true.
371
00:31:13,618 --> 00:31:15,017
Just, "Yes! It's here!"
372
00:31:15,554 --> 00:31:17,078
Berry had a vision.
373
00:31:17,155 --> 00:31:19,851
He had a real good, solid sense...
374
00:31:21,426 --> 00:31:24,418
of vision, and imagination,
and organization.
375
00:31:24,496 --> 00:31:28,899
He knew how to put it together
so that he could end up with something...
376
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,197
that ended up being what they call
"The sounds of young America."
377
00:31:32,270 --> 00:31:33,737
And it was very different.
378
00:31:45,684 --> 00:31:48,949
The reason we started Motown
was because nobody was paying us.
379
00:31:50,155 --> 00:31:53,647
Berry would produce our recordsin the early days...
380
00:31:55,927 --> 00:31:59,590
and put them out to other companies,and nobody really paid us.
381
00:31:59,664 --> 00:32:02,599
So I went to Berry's office one day,and he was saying:
382
00:32:02,667 --> 00:32:06,797
"Man, this record is so big.
I don't know what to do with it...
383
00:32:06,871 --> 00:32:11,365
"because I don't know who to put it with
because nobody's been paying us."
384
00:32:12,410 --> 00:32:15,971
So I said, "Why don't you just
go national with it, man?"
385
00:32:16,181 --> 00:32:17,273
He said, "What?"
386
00:32:17,349 --> 00:32:19,214
I said, "Why don't you
go national with it?"
387
00:32:19,284 --> 00:32:21,252
He said,
"But I'm not set up to go national."
388
00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:23,344
I said, "You can be.
Nobody's paying us anyway.
389
00:32:23,421 --> 00:32:25,787
"If we lose money,
we lose money for ourselves.
390
00:32:25,857 --> 00:32:28,257
"Why don't you just go?" So he did.
391
00:32:28,326 --> 00:32:31,659
We came out with
Please Mr. Postman. Smash!
392
00:32:32,797 --> 00:32:34,856
Right on the heels of Please Mr. Postman...
393
00:32:34,933 --> 00:32:38,027
we came up with Shop Around,
which was just...
394
00:32:38,837 --> 00:32:40,828
So that's how it happened.
395
00:32:48,380 --> 00:32:51,144
The real Smokey that I loveis the songwriter Smokey...
396
00:32:51,216 --> 00:32:55,118
the Smokey who writes lyrics...
397
00:32:55,186 --> 00:32:57,245
like Tracks of My Tears...
398
00:32:58,156 --> 00:33:02,115
and "Ooo baby baby,
I'm just about at the end of my rope...
399
00:33:02,193 --> 00:33:04,354
"but I can't stop trying,
I can't give up hope."
400
00:33:04,429 --> 00:33:06,954
Come on, please.
That says it all, you know?
401
00:33:18,910 --> 00:33:21,777
Ooo Baby Baby was a song...
402
00:33:21,846 --> 00:33:24,679
that actually started live on stage.
403
00:33:25,550 --> 00:33:28,383
We... When I say we,I mean the Miracles and me...
404
00:33:28,453 --> 00:33:30,421
started onstage one night, just singing:
405
00:33:30,488 --> 00:33:32,786
Ooo baby baby
406
00:33:33,224 --> 00:33:35,749
I started singing it,
the guys fell in in the harmony...
407
00:33:35,827 --> 00:33:38,091
started singing, "Ooo baby baby."
408
00:33:38,163 --> 00:33:40,063
The people went crazy.
409
00:33:40,398 --> 00:33:43,390
So we said,'"Man, people like that so much...
410
00:33:43,802 --> 00:33:45,997
'"we should do a record: Ooo Baby Baby."
411
00:33:46,071 --> 00:33:48,904
So we came home, finished up the song...
412
00:33:48,973 --> 00:33:51,601
went to the studio,recorded Ooo Baby Baby.
413
00:33:51,676 --> 00:33:53,906
And that's where it came from.
414
00:34:04,622 --> 00:34:07,955
We could go on a 51-nighter tour.
415
00:34:09,594 --> 00:34:11,858
And as soon as you got home...
416
00:34:12,330 --> 00:34:14,924
and took a bath
or whatever you wanted to do...
417
00:34:14,999 --> 00:34:18,298
and got yourself together,
you went to Hitsville.
418
00:34:18,670 --> 00:34:21,230
Why? Because everybody
was gonna be there.
419
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:24,130
We'd pull up in front of the house
on the first day...
420
00:34:24,209 --> 00:34:27,269
We got in '62, I think, it was.
421
00:34:27,345 --> 00:34:30,746
And we watched Supremes, or the Temps.
422
00:34:31,049 --> 00:34:32,448
Little Stevie would be there.
423
00:34:32,517 --> 00:34:34,815
You could hear him upstairs
playing on the drums...
424
00:34:34,886 --> 00:34:36,547
and blowing his little harp.
425
00:34:36,621 --> 00:34:38,555
Marvin Gaye might be pulling up...
426
00:34:38,623 --> 00:34:41,922
and he's talking to his wife, Anna,
who's Berry's sister.
427
00:34:41,993 --> 00:34:45,451
The Temptationswould probably be down in the studio...
428
00:34:45,530 --> 00:34:46,792
recording at this time.
429
00:34:46,865 --> 00:34:48,992
Holland-Dozier-Hollandis in a room writing.
430
00:34:49,067 --> 00:34:51,968
Meanwhile, you just walk up
and notice something for you to do.
431
00:34:52,036 --> 00:34:54,527
Or you just come to see
what everybody else is doing.
432
00:34:54,606 --> 00:34:57,871
It was really like a meeting place
at that time...
433
00:34:57,942 --> 00:35:00,467
because it exploded.
I mean, things were happening.
434
00:35:00,545 --> 00:35:04,003
The Supremes werethe number one group in the country...
435
00:35:04,082 --> 00:35:06,312
Temptations were having their hit...
436
00:35:06,384 --> 00:35:08,818
the Four Tops,
we'd just had Baby, I need Your Loving.
437
00:35:08,887 --> 00:35:11,617
The excitement was just all in the air.
438
00:35:12,157 --> 00:35:16,719
And every day almost, you could see
somebody else's dream come true.
439
00:35:40,151 --> 00:35:42,813
The most important thing in the world...
440
00:35:42,887 --> 00:35:45,185
that could happen in my teenage years...
441
00:35:45,256 --> 00:35:47,781
was when the Supremesmade their next appearance.
442
00:35:47,859 --> 00:35:50,419
It was like news
throughout the neighborhood.
443
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,563
All their songs were so great.
444
00:35:57,635 --> 00:36:00,695
When I listen to some of the Supremes,
like their catalog...
445
00:36:00,772 --> 00:36:03,240
those girls had songs up the yin-yang.
446
00:36:03,308 --> 00:36:05,606
I said, "How many songs
have you girls got?"
447
00:36:05,677 --> 00:36:07,201
Not "have," but "got."
448
00:36:07,278 --> 00:36:10,372
I mean, they had more songs
than they should have.
449
00:36:10,448 --> 00:36:12,416
They should have gave me two of them.
450
00:36:22,093 --> 00:36:25,358
Our acts were groomedfrom the very first signing.
451
00:36:25,563 --> 00:36:28,327
See, every act inspired the other acts...
452
00:36:28,399 --> 00:36:30,959
because every act wanted to be good...
453
00:36:31,035 --> 00:36:33,526
because the Motown acts
were trained to be good.
454
00:36:33,905 --> 00:36:37,500
They were immaculate, most of the peoplethat you're talking about.
455
00:36:37,575 --> 00:36:41,739
These people here were, like, tailor-made.I mean, they were immaculate.
456
00:36:41,813 --> 00:36:46,045
Very colorful, very well-groomed.
457
00:36:46,718 --> 00:36:50,620
The Temptations were the best of that era.
458
00:37:26,424 --> 00:37:27,948
I used to call them...
459
00:37:28,026 --> 00:37:30,256
My pet name for them
was The Five Deacons...
460
00:37:30,328 --> 00:37:35,265
because they had this church harmony,
and they were just awesome.
461
00:37:35,333 --> 00:37:39,861
I mean, with Melvin way down
on the bottom...
462
00:37:39,938 --> 00:37:43,271
and Eddie way up on the top...
463
00:37:43,441 --> 00:37:46,604
and all the harmonic sounds
in between them...
464
00:37:47,245 --> 00:37:48,974
Those brothers could blow.
465
00:38:02,961 --> 00:38:07,091
I wrote My Girl probablyin about 10, 20 minutes.
466
00:38:07,198 --> 00:38:10,326
And every time in between the showsat the Apollo...
467
00:38:10,401 --> 00:38:11,891
while the movie was playing...
468
00:38:11,970 --> 00:38:14,700
I would take the Temptationsdownstairs on the stage...
469
00:38:14,772 --> 00:38:16,262
and we would work on My Girl.
470
00:38:16,341 --> 00:38:20,004
I would always let the Temptations
make up their own backgrounds...
471
00:38:20,078 --> 00:38:22,103
because they were masters at it.
472
00:38:22,180 --> 00:38:24,705
They would be doing stuff
that I would never think of...
473
00:38:24,782 --> 00:38:26,750
for background vocals...
474
00:38:26,818 --> 00:38:28,547
All that, you know?
475
00:38:28,620 --> 00:38:30,884
So I always let them
make up their own backgrounds.
476
00:38:30,955 --> 00:38:34,186
And then when we got home,I recorded it on them.
477
00:38:34,258 --> 00:38:37,523
And it's one of those songs
that has just lived on and on...
478
00:38:37,595 --> 00:38:38,755
and I'm very proud of it.
479
00:38:39,130 --> 00:38:42,122
I idolized the Temptations
because I was a street corner singer...
480
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,430
and these guys were
the ultimate singing group.
481
00:38:45,136 --> 00:38:48,833
I think one of the most amazing daysof my life was spent here...
482
00:38:48,906 --> 00:38:51,932
and that was in June of 1985.
483
00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:55,810
I was asked to bepart of the reopening festivities here...
484
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,782
and I was honored to be asked to do that...
485
00:38:59,884 --> 00:39:03,877
and I wanted to bring something into itthat was a part of my beginnings...
486
00:39:03,955 --> 00:39:08,449
so I asked Eddie Kendricksand David Ruffin to join John and myself.
487
00:39:42,827 --> 00:39:44,556
It was one of those moments...
488
00:39:44,629 --> 00:39:47,860
where the past, the present,the future all come together.
489
00:40:11,622 --> 00:40:15,058
The Motown sound
was a 24-hour-a-day thing...
490
00:40:15,126 --> 00:40:17,856
that people tried to develop
and it was made out of love...
491
00:40:17,929 --> 00:40:19,191
to help each other win.
492
00:40:19,697 --> 00:40:22,427
They would cut five different tracks...
493
00:40:22,834 --> 00:40:25,098
with five different producers...
494
00:40:25,169 --> 00:40:29,435
and then they would come in
with five different sets of songwriters...
495
00:40:29,507 --> 00:40:33,034
and six different lyric writers
or whatever...
496
00:40:33,111 --> 00:40:36,808
and then they would cut it
with three, four, or five different artists.
497
00:40:45,256 --> 00:40:47,724
Berry was smart enough to realize...
498
00:40:48,025 --> 00:40:51,927
that that music had an appeal
beyond the black community.
499
00:40:51,996 --> 00:40:54,089
It would be better if everybody liked it.
500
00:40:54,165 --> 00:40:57,726
So he didn't make it colorless,
it was truly black music...
501
00:40:57,802 --> 00:41:00,066
but it appealed to everybody
all over the world.
502
00:41:26,664 --> 00:41:28,655
You know, Marvin was a unique talent.
503
00:41:28,733 --> 00:41:30,166
We would go by the studio...
504
00:41:30,234 --> 00:41:32,794
you could almost depend on
Marvin being there...
505
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:35,771
or being somewhere creating something.
506
00:41:37,308 --> 00:41:42,007
And because he was such a giver,
it made the people around him...
507
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:44,513
want to be of that spirit, too.
508
00:42:11,943 --> 00:42:14,537
When we first started Motown,
we had five employees...
509
00:42:14,612 --> 00:42:18,446
and he said, "We're going to make music
with a great beat...
510
00:42:19,483 --> 00:42:21,542
"with some great stories."
511
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,020
And that's what we did.
512
00:42:25,389 --> 00:42:29,348
We made music with a great beat,
with some great stories.
513
00:42:30,194 --> 00:42:33,891
He said, "Our stories are going to be such
that anybody can listen to them.
514
00:42:33,965 --> 00:42:36,092
"They will not be offensive.
515
00:42:36,834 --> 00:42:39,428
"And we're just going to make music."
516
00:42:39,837 --> 00:42:43,637
Eventually, he adopted the slogan,
"The sound of young America"...
517
00:42:43,708 --> 00:42:45,505
'cause that's what we were.
518
00:43:22,980 --> 00:43:26,882
The Jackson Five was the first peoplethat I could relate to.
519
00:43:26,951 --> 00:43:31,445
Those are young black kids
doing something that I like to do.
520
00:43:32,456 --> 00:43:35,289
I used to kiss the TV
when Michael came on.
521
00:43:35,393 --> 00:43:38,692
Please, I used to love Michael Jackson.
522
00:43:38,963 --> 00:43:42,126
In the Jackson Five,
I really liked Randy at the time.
523
00:43:42,199 --> 00:43:44,690
I mean, I loved Michael,
but I was after Randy.
524
00:43:44,769 --> 00:43:47,499
Everybody had their own one,
you know, that...
525
00:43:47,571 --> 00:43:50,938
Because the older girls liked Jermaine.
I think Michael...
526
00:43:51,008 --> 00:43:54,944
Randy was around our age.
I think Michael was a little older.
527
00:43:55,012 --> 00:43:58,175
But everybody had their own.
Michael was mine.
528
00:43:58,249 --> 00:44:00,581
Oh, my God! I used to kiss the television.
529
00:44:13,731 --> 00:44:16,723
To this very day, and on and on...
530
00:44:16,801 --> 00:44:19,326
Motown will have the songs...
531
00:44:19,403 --> 00:44:22,270
that people will want to continue
to record...
532
00:44:22,340 --> 00:44:24,137
and do over and over.
533
00:44:35,319 --> 00:44:39,551
The only music I ever heard as a kid
was street music, R & B music...
534
00:44:40,124 --> 00:44:43,616
Not so much the blues.
And church music. I sang in church.
535
00:44:43,694 --> 00:44:45,184
Came out of the Philadelphia sound.
536
00:44:45,429 --> 00:44:46,953
It's like the Motown sound, I guess.
537
00:44:47,031 --> 00:44:50,125
Philadelphia, we're very special
by having our own sound.
538
00:45:02,780 --> 00:45:06,648
I was looking for those special talents...
539
00:45:07,184 --> 00:45:10,051
coming out of the urban community.
540
00:45:10,321 --> 00:45:13,222
My first move was to make a deal
with Gamble and Huff...
541
00:45:13,290 --> 00:45:16,191
who were the great producers of the era.
542
00:45:16,660 --> 00:45:18,787
I think the Philly sound...
543
00:45:21,165 --> 00:45:26,000
was an extension of our experiences
in Philadelphia.
544
00:45:26,470 --> 00:45:30,372
It was a little bit of jazz,a little bit of gospel...
545
00:45:30,441 --> 00:45:32,341
a little classical...
546
00:45:33,944 --> 00:45:36,105
and when me and Huff got together,that was it.
547
00:45:36,180 --> 00:45:37,875
It was like...
548
00:45:39,316 --> 00:45:41,511
it was meant to be.
549
00:45:56,734 --> 00:45:58,827
When we wrote for the O'Jays...
550
00:45:58,903 --> 00:46:03,203
I would think about how dynamic
Eddie Levert and Walter were...
551
00:46:03,641 --> 00:46:05,541
and also William.
552
00:46:14,485 --> 00:46:18,319
We couldn't wait till the O'Jays
got to town so we could rehearse.
553
00:46:18,389 --> 00:46:22,985
It was like a certain anxiety there
that was, like, indescribable.
554
00:46:26,964 --> 00:46:30,730
Kenny and Leon had an innate ability...
555
00:46:31,001 --> 00:46:33,299
to write about what was going on.
556
00:46:58,395 --> 00:47:00,522
I think Gamble and Huff...
557
00:47:00,998 --> 00:47:04,729
are the premier message writers.
558
00:47:04,835 --> 00:47:09,465
Mr. Gamble is a genius, absolute genius...
559
00:47:09,707 --> 00:47:11,504
at bringing forth...
560
00:47:13,544 --> 00:47:17,207
situations and talking about situations
that exist.
561
00:47:17,915 --> 00:47:22,318
We, on purpose, tried to put
different messages in the music...
562
00:47:22,386 --> 00:47:25,355
that were relative to that particular time...
563
00:47:25,422 --> 00:47:27,219
but we weren't the first ones to do that.
564
00:47:27,291 --> 00:47:30,522
As a matter of fact,
I like to tell people, oftentimes...
565
00:47:30,594 --> 00:47:32,926
that Curtis Mayfield's songs...
566
00:47:33,063 --> 00:47:35,258
kind of ushered in
the Civil Rights Movement.
567
00:48:18,976 --> 00:48:22,070
We were tired as hell.We weren't going to take it anymore.
568
00:48:22,146 --> 00:48:24,910
As Prince says, "The sign of the times."
569
00:48:26,217 --> 00:48:28,777
The times were reflected in the music.
570
00:48:49,773 --> 00:48:52,435
I think, in part,
the music affected the movement...
571
00:48:52,509 --> 00:48:54,067
and the movement affected the music.
572
00:48:54,144 --> 00:48:56,374
However, from my perspective...
573
00:48:56,447 --> 00:49:00,440
and the view from my particular bridge,
it makes me want to say...
574
00:49:00,517 --> 00:49:02,508
that the music affected
the movement more.
575
00:49:23,641 --> 00:49:25,836
Free at last, free at last.
576
00:49:26,310 --> 00:49:29,177
Thank God almighty, we are free at last.
577
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:44,086
In the 60s...
578
00:49:44,161 --> 00:49:46,356
when James Brown came outwith his rendition...
579
00:49:46,430 --> 00:49:49,695
of I'm Black and I'm Proud,
I think it was something that was needed.
580
00:49:49,767 --> 00:49:53,498
Because the country
was setting new standards at that time...
581
00:49:53,570 --> 00:49:55,504
and, of course, you know, it was...
582
00:49:55,572 --> 00:49:58,564
We were trying to gain equality
for our people.
583
00:49:58,642 --> 00:50:02,578
So James Brown has made
a great contribution to all of that...
584
00:50:02,913 --> 00:50:04,437
with soul music.
585
00:50:04,648 --> 00:50:07,276
There was a message then.
There's a message now.
586
00:50:07,351 --> 00:50:11,685
The message is probably a little more
in-your-face type of message...
587
00:50:11,755 --> 00:50:15,054
like that reminds me of Run-D.M.C.'s...
588
00:50:15,426 --> 00:50:18,759
I'm proud to be black, y'alland that's a fact, y'all
589
00:50:18,829 --> 00:50:20,797
You know, it's the same type of thing.
590
00:50:20,864 --> 00:50:23,697
So once again,
the same way that you get...
591
00:50:24,802 --> 00:50:26,463
samples from those songs...
592
00:50:26,537 --> 00:50:28,596
you also can listen
to what they were saying...
593
00:50:28,672 --> 00:50:31,732
and it can influence you.
That music can influence you.
594
00:50:36,980 --> 00:50:40,575
I think just the nature of black music
makes it...
595
00:50:43,587 --> 00:50:45,111
almost like cell division.
596
00:50:45,189 --> 00:50:48,386
It just constantly grows
and builds off of itself.
597
00:50:57,701 --> 00:51:00,329
The golden age of soul was the 1960s.
598
00:51:00,504 --> 00:51:02,472
But the sounds of that era still echo...
599
00:51:02,539 --> 00:51:05,474
in the music and popular cultureof America today.
600
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,291
The emotion, the artistry, the runs...
601
00:51:27,765 --> 00:51:31,098
I think that is what creates soul.
602
00:51:45,582 --> 00:51:47,880
You know, when people ask me...
603
00:51:48,685 --> 00:51:52,485
why the music is still around...
604
00:51:53,590 --> 00:51:56,718
I've been doing it
for 35 years professionally.
605
00:51:57,828 --> 00:51:59,819
It was here when I came.
606
00:52:01,031 --> 00:52:03,226
It will be here when I leave.
607
00:52:04,401 --> 00:52:08,997
Because the messages and the melodies...
608
00:52:14,945 --> 00:52:16,344
are infinite.
609
00:52:38,635 --> 00:52:41,229
All of the movies that we go to see...
610
00:52:41,305 --> 00:52:43,865
you look at TV shows like China Beach...
611
00:52:43,941 --> 00:52:46,808
and there's Diana Ross and the Supremes
singing Reflections.
612
00:52:46,877 --> 00:52:50,005
You know, you listen to songs...
613
00:52:50,380 --> 00:52:53,042
by acts in other musical genres...
614
00:52:53,116 --> 00:52:56,847
by rock 'n' roll acts,
by just other acts who are successful...
615
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,913
and they all pay homage
to R & B and soul music...
616
00:53:00,991 --> 00:53:03,084
of the '60s, '50s, and '70s.
617
00:53:03,594 --> 00:53:07,792
I think that soul music is around,
is going to be around...
618
00:53:07,865 --> 00:53:10,561
because it's the essence...
619
00:53:10,634 --> 00:53:15,094
it's the life of the music industry
soul music.
620
00:53:15,672 --> 00:53:19,438
Soul music never loses time...
621
00:53:20,277 --> 00:53:23,371
and it's always timely.
622
00:53:25,616 --> 00:53:27,550
It can't be outdated...
623
00:53:27,618 --> 00:53:30,109
and it's never going to be old hat.
624
00:53:30,187 --> 00:53:33,850
Soul music is just like
something that haunts you...
625
00:53:33,924 --> 00:53:36,825
and that will be with youfor the rest of your life.
626
00:53:39,825 --> 00:53:43,825
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