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[STATIC]
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[INDISTINCT TALKING
OVER RADIO]
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00:00:18,118 --> 00:00:19,886
[TYPEWRITER CLACKING]
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00:00:39,072 --> 00:00:42,042
Hello, my name is Danny Trejo,
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00:00:42,075 --> 00:00:47,280
and the following
is a deathbed confession
of John Leroy Kelly
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00:00:47,313 --> 00:00:52,085
about the escape
from Alcatraz Island in 1962.
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00:01:36,529 --> 00:01:40,166
ED O'ROSS:
The greatest mysteries
of the 20th century include
10
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,535
the disappearance
of Jimmy Hoffa,
11
00:01:44,237 --> 00:01:46,339
the JFK assassination...
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00:01:51,211 --> 00:01:54,481
And the Alcatraz Prison escape.
13
00:01:58,384 --> 00:02:04,657
In 1962, three inmates
escaped from Alcatraz Island
Federal Penitentiary.
14
00:02:04,691 --> 00:02:07,627
This was thought
to be impossible.
15
00:02:07,660 --> 00:02:12,999
Their bodies were never found,
and they were never captured.
16
00:02:13,032 --> 00:02:15,735
Until recently, there was
a one million dollar reward
17
00:02:15,768 --> 00:02:19,539
for information that led
to the capture or discoveries
of the bodies
18
00:02:19,572 --> 00:02:23,543
of Frank Morris, John Anglin,
and Clarence Anglin,
19
00:02:23,576 --> 00:02:26,980
who escaped on June 11th 1962.
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00:02:29,115 --> 00:02:31,918
No one knows if they drowned
in the chilly waters
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00:02:31,951 --> 00:02:33,786
of Alcatraz that night
22
00:02:33,820 --> 00:02:36,156
or truly made it off The Rock.
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00:02:39,325 --> 00:02:42,395
Recently, a new document
was uncovered.
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00:02:42,428 --> 00:02:44,864
A deathbed confession
of a low-level criminal
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00:02:44,898 --> 00:02:46,900
claiming involvement
in the escape,
26
00:02:46,933 --> 00:02:52,071
which sent Art Roderick,
the head of the US Marshals,
and his partner, Mike Earp,
27
00:02:52,105 --> 00:02:55,008
descendant of legendary lawman,
Wyatt Earp,
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00:02:55,041 --> 00:02:57,844
cross country with
filmmaker Daniel Zirilli,
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00:02:57,877 --> 00:03:02,582
to investigate
the oldest open case
in US Marshals' history.
30
00:03:02,615 --> 00:03:04,484
[TYPEWRITER CLACKING]
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00:03:13,193 --> 00:03:17,664
KELLY: I really
don't know how to start
this except to just tell it.
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00:03:17,697 --> 00:03:20,733
I guess you could say
I'm a very famous person.
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00:03:22,101 --> 00:03:24,137
It's just that no one knows
who I am.
34
00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:27,674
Or what I did.
35
00:03:35,315 --> 00:03:38,718
I, along with a man
named Robert Michael Kyle,
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00:03:38,751 --> 00:03:42,222
helped to pull off
one of the most
famous prison escapes
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00:03:42,255 --> 00:03:43,957
in the United States' history.
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00:03:47,794 --> 00:03:50,196
ED O'ROSS: There was
a lot of people involved
39
00:03:50,230 --> 00:03:52,765
in the escape
from Alcatraz Prison.
40
00:03:56,035 --> 00:03:59,138
I know for a fact
that high-ranking guards
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00:03:59,172 --> 00:04:02,342
were paid for their part
in the escape.
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00:04:02,375 --> 00:04:05,578
I believe, from what
the convicts told us,
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00:04:05,612 --> 00:04:09,716
that the prison officials
had to know
or strongly suspect
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00:04:09,749 --> 00:04:13,319
that guards at the prison
took part in this escape.
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00:04:13,353 --> 00:04:16,623
On Monday, June 11th,
with Robert at the wheel,
46
00:04:16,656 --> 00:04:24,097
we picked up escaped inmates,
Frank Lee Morris, John Anglin,
and Clarence Anglin.
47
00:04:24,130 --> 00:04:26,532
We took them north
to Seattle on the boat.
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00:04:28,768 --> 00:04:33,106
In the first
two or three years
after the prison escape,
49
00:04:33,139 --> 00:04:37,043
my Uncle Donald, the one
that got me involved
in the escape,
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00:04:37,076 --> 00:04:42,415
said that the convicts'
family members called him,
wanting to know what happened.
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00:04:44,717 --> 00:04:47,320
I always told my Uncle Donald
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00:04:47,353 --> 00:04:50,423
that me and Robert
left the convicts in Canada
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00:04:52,692 --> 00:04:54,727
and never saw them again.
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00:04:59,499 --> 00:05:02,235
I don't think
he really ever believed me.
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00:05:08,174 --> 00:05:10,043
Please forgive me
for what I did.
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00:05:19,085 --> 00:05:21,487
NEWS REPORTER:
A spoon proves
mightier than the bars
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00:05:21,521 --> 00:05:24,757
at supposedly escape-proof
Alcatraz Prison.
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00:05:24,791 --> 00:05:26,993
Three bank robbers,
serving long terms,
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00:05:27,026 --> 00:05:31,030
scratched their way through
grills covering an air vent,
climbed a drainage pipe,
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00:05:31,064 --> 00:05:34,767
and disappeared from
the forbidding rock
in San Francisco Bay.
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00:05:34,801 --> 00:05:37,103
It appears to be
the first successful escape
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00:05:37,136 --> 00:05:39,939
in the history of
the maximum security prison.
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00:05:39,972 --> 00:05:42,809
And the flight is attributed
by warden Olin Blackwell
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00:05:42,842 --> 00:05:45,345
to the deteriorating condition
of the prison,
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00:05:45,378 --> 00:05:47,613
crumbling concrete
and eroding metals
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00:05:47,647 --> 00:05:50,083
with five million
needed for repairs.
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00:05:50,116 --> 00:05:52,185
[DRAMATIC INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING]
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00:05:53,653 --> 00:05:55,221
The men the walls
couldn't hold
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00:05:55,254 --> 00:05:58,558
are Frank Morris
and John and Clarence Anglin.
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00:05:58,591 --> 00:06:03,062
Authorities believe that
Morris, who has a superior IQ,
masterminded the escape.
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00:06:03,096 --> 00:06:06,566
Ironically, the wanted posters
offer only the nominal reward
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00:06:06,599 --> 00:06:10,269
of 50 dollars each
for information leading to
the arrest of the prisoners.
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00:06:13,172 --> 00:06:15,908
They painstakingly fashioned
dummies of plaster
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00:06:15,942 --> 00:06:18,845
with hair of
paintbrush bristles
to stand in for them
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00:06:18,878 --> 00:06:20,146
during cell check
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00:06:20,179 --> 00:06:23,616
while they covered
an escape hole
with a cardboard grill.
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00:06:23,649 --> 00:06:28,020
All of this was within easy
visual range of the guards
in the gun galleries.
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00:06:32,258 --> 00:06:34,961
They climbed drainpipes
to the top of the cell block
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00:06:34,994 --> 00:06:36,763
and then slid down vents
to the ground.
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00:06:36,796 --> 00:06:39,432
Again, all of this
within sight of guards.
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00:06:39,465 --> 00:06:42,902
The escape triggered
the greatest manhunt
in San Francisco's history
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00:06:42,935 --> 00:06:46,272
as agents of the FBI,
Coast Guardsmen,
highway patrol,
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00:06:46,305 --> 00:06:49,609
sheriff's deputies,
and local police
joined in the search.
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00:06:49,642 --> 00:06:53,045
Whatever their fate,
the three convicts have
apparently accomplished a feat
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00:06:53,079 --> 00:06:55,748
that many have tried
with no success.
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00:06:59,552 --> 00:07:01,888
O'ROSS: For most,
the name Alcatraz
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00:07:01,921 --> 00:07:06,492
evokes images of iron bars,
hard concrete
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00:07:06,526 --> 00:07:08,161
and brutal guards.
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00:07:09,529 --> 00:07:11,998
A purgatory for
anyone trapped inside.
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00:07:16,302 --> 00:07:18,805
Although this is what
Alcatraz became,
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00:07:18,838 --> 00:07:23,876
it started as something
very different.
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00:07:23,910 --> 00:07:29,649
Isla de los Alcatraces,
or Pelican Island,
was first surveyed in 1847.
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00:07:31,984 --> 00:07:34,720
Devoid of any real
natural resources,
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00:07:34,754 --> 00:07:36,989
and only one or two
landable beaches,
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00:07:37,023 --> 00:07:41,527
it seemed an unlikely asset
to the newly acquired
Republic of California.
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00:07:44,430 --> 00:07:48,501
The US Army, however,
quickly saw the value
of the barren rock.
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00:07:50,503 --> 00:07:54,307
Sitting at the heart
of the bay, the island was
seen as an ideal location
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00:07:54,340 --> 00:07:56,375
for artillery batteries
that could protect
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00:07:56,409 --> 00:08:00,079
the recently renamed hamlet
of San Francisco.
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00:08:00,112 --> 00:08:04,817
In 1853, construction began
on Camp Alcatraz.
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00:08:04,851 --> 00:08:06,953
Completed in 1859,
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00:08:06,986 --> 00:08:10,056
the island became
the first permanent
harbor fortification
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00:08:10,089 --> 00:08:12,525
on the United States
West Coast.
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00:08:12,558 --> 00:08:15,027
Declaration of civil war
in 1861
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00:08:15,061 --> 00:08:18,898
left California fighting
on the side of
the northern States.
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00:08:18,931 --> 00:08:22,869
Three hundred Union soldiers
were stationed at Fort Alcatraz
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00:08:22,902 --> 00:08:28,074
to fend off any possible
Confederate assault
on the San Francisco Bay.
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00:08:28,107 --> 00:08:32,245
These soldiers waited
for an attack that never came.
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00:08:32,278 --> 00:08:36,482
Never once did the canons
of Alcatraz fire on an enemy.
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00:08:36,516 --> 00:08:39,652
The camp did, however,
find its use during the war.
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00:08:39,685 --> 00:08:41,821
It began serving
as a military prison
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00:08:41,854 --> 00:08:45,658
for captured Confederate
soldiers and sympathizers.
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00:08:45,691 --> 00:08:50,363
It continued to operate as
both fort and military prison
for another 40 years.
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00:08:51,998 --> 00:08:54,133
In 1900, it was decided
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00:08:54,166 --> 00:08:56,869
that the fort would resign
all defensive duties
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00:08:56,903 --> 00:08:59,438
and would operate solely
as an army prison.
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00:08:59,472 --> 00:09:04,744
Over the next 30 years,
the inmates at Pacific branch
US Military Prison Alcatraz
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00:09:04,777 --> 00:09:07,246
transformed The Rock,
as they called it,
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00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,349
into the world's largest
and most modern prison.
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00:09:12,952 --> 00:09:17,490
Finally, in 1934,
the war department
said goodbye to Alcatraz
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00:09:17,523 --> 00:09:20,760
and handed the island over
to the Department of Justice
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00:09:20,793 --> 00:09:24,263
where it remained
until its closure in 1963.
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00:09:27,099 --> 00:09:32,171
This is the era
that the island prison
is most famous for.
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00:09:32,204 --> 00:09:36,142
The worst of the worst of all
maximum security prisons.
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00:09:36,175 --> 00:09:39,946
The most difficult time
that any inmate could do.
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00:09:39,979 --> 00:09:44,317
Alcatraz Island
Federal Penitentiary.
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00:09:44,350 --> 00:09:47,453
In its almost 30 years
as an operational facility,
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00:09:47,486 --> 00:09:51,991
Alcatraz was home
to the nation's most dangerous
and notorious criminals.
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00:09:52,024 --> 00:09:55,127
Gangsters like
Chicago crime boss Al Capone
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00:09:55,161 --> 00:09:58,064
and Los Angeles based
mafioso Mickey Cohen
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00:09:58,097 --> 00:10:01,767
both found themselves
locked inside the walls
of The Rock.
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00:10:01,801 --> 00:10:05,671
Other most wanted criminals
like Machine Gun Kelly
and Doc Barker
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00:10:05,705 --> 00:10:09,342
were also sent to Alcatraz.
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00:10:09,375 --> 00:10:12,845
A veritable laundry list
of the nation's
most famous criminals
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00:10:12,878 --> 00:10:15,915
declared residence on The Rock
at one time or another.
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00:10:24,357 --> 00:10:26,892
Given the miserable
conditions at Alcatraz,
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00:10:26,926 --> 00:10:29,562
combined with the nature
of its inmates,
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00:10:29,595 --> 00:10:33,265
it was inevitable
that there would be
escape attempts.
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00:10:33,299 --> 00:10:36,669
However, in its 29 years
of operation,
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00:10:36,702 --> 00:10:41,340
Alcatraz claims
that no prisoner ever
successfully escaped.
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00:10:46,078 --> 00:10:49,048
ZIRILLI: This is the Alcatraz
prison escape statement.
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00:10:49,081 --> 00:10:52,351
And I faxed it to both
the FBI and the US Marshals,
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00:10:52,385 --> 00:10:55,688
and they deemed it
credible enough for follow-up.
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00:10:55,721 --> 00:10:58,958
So two US Marshals
and a tracker and myself
145
00:10:58,991 --> 00:11:00,793
are actively looking
for the site
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00:11:00,826 --> 00:11:02,361
that's mentioned
in this statement.
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00:11:03,663 --> 00:11:06,165
[TYPEWRITER CLACKING]
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00:11:09,568 --> 00:11:14,607
NURSE: I am typing this
statement for my good friend
and patient John Leroy Kelly
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00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,876
who was born
near Greenville, Mississippi,
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00:11:16,909 --> 00:11:19,812
on or about
September 3rd, 1944.
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00:11:21,881 --> 00:11:24,850
He says that
he does not have
a birth certificate on file,
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00:11:24,884 --> 00:11:27,687
and he never learned
to write much more
than his name
153
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,089
and states that
he cannot read at all.
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00:11:31,991 --> 00:11:36,228
John has asked me
not to release this
to anyone until he is dead.
155
00:11:36,262 --> 00:11:38,597
He is afraid of going
to jail or prison
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00:11:38,631 --> 00:11:43,602
for the part he played
in the 1962 Alcatraz
prison escape
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00:11:43,636 --> 00:11:48,107
of Frank Morris,
Clarence Anglin,
and John Anglin.
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00:11:59,952 --> 00:12:02,121
EARP: When we get in
these type leads,
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00:12:02,154 --> 00:12:06,859
we love to say...
You know, we can't say, "Okay,
this is it, it's a home run."
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00:12:06,892 --> 00:12:10,029
"Is this possible?"
And this was possible.
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00:12:10,062 --> 00:12:11,764
So that's why we're here.
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00:12:11,797 --> 00:12:15,067
We weren't involved...
The Marshal Service
as an agency
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00:12:15,101 --> 00:12:17,169
wasn't involved
in this case.
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00:12:17,203 --> 00:12:18,504
ZIRILLI: For 18 years.
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00:12:18,537 --> 00:12:21,941
Right, right.
We didn't get it
till 1979.
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00:12:21,974 --> 00:12:24,777
'80, I think.
'80, 1981.
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00:12:24,810 --> 00:12:29,248
When the Attorney General
made the Marshal Service
responsible
168
00:12:29,281 --> 00:12:31,984
for what they call
the escape and rescue
statutes,
169
00:12:32,017 --> 00:12:35,588
which are the federal statutes
that an individual's
charged with
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00:12:35,621 --> 00:12:39,225
for escape or aiding
and abetting an escape
and all that.
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00:12:39,258 --> 00:12:42,328
So that...that case
came over to us,
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00:12:42,361 --> 00:12:44,930
uh, when the Attorney General
gave us that authority.
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00:12:44,964 --> 00:12:47,767
More or less moved it
from the FBI to us.
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00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:53,139
So we have...we didn't go back
and, like, try and recreate
the investigation.
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00:12:53,172 --> 00:12:54,673
Because, let me tell you,
the Bureau...
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00:12:54,707 --> 00:12:56,242
Seventeen hundred pages...
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00:12:56,275 --> 00:12:58,043
They did a lot of stuff.
Right.
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00:12:58,077 --> 00:13:00,513
I mean, surveillances,
interviewed family members.
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00:13:00,546 --> 00:13:02,748
Year after year,
they went back and...
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00:13:02,782 --> 00:13:05,718
I mean, they did a perfect...
a real good investigation.
181
00:13:06,952 --> 00:13:09,722
So we weren't going
to go back and recreate that.
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00:13:09,755 --> 00:13:12,558
Basically, what we've done
up to this point is
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00:13:12,591 --> 00:13:16,195
if something comes up,
we'll follow the lead out
till the end.
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00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:21,700
O'ROSS: Thousands of people
visit Alcatraz Island
every year
185
00:13:21,734 --> 00:13:26,505
to see Al Capone's cell
and hear about
the Birdman of Alcatraz.
186
00:13:26,539 --> 00:13:30,543
They come to see
how Frank Morris and
the Anglin brothers escaped.
187
00:13:30,576 --> 00:13:33,579
What they hear
are the tour-guided facts,
188
00:13:33,612 --> 00:13:36,982
a rehearsed
and recited account
based on speculation,
189
00:13:37,016 --> 00:13:40,186
as to how the escape
actually happened.
190
00:13:40,219 --> 00:13:42,888
Never before has Alcatraz
revealed everything
191
00:13:42,922 --> 00:13:48,460
that it knows and doesn't know
about what happened
that fateful night.
192
00:13:48,494 --> 00:13:50,462
ZIRILLI: So I just got
off the phone with Art.
193
00:13:50,496 --> 00:13:55,568
Apparently, Craig at
the Ranger's Office
at Alcatraz
194
00:13:55,601 --> 00:13:59,605
called to verify if Art
was working with us
on the Alcatraz statement.
195
00:13:59,638 --> 00:14:03,142
And Art told the guy
to give them, Daniel and Neil,
196
00:14:03,175 --> 00:14:05,945
all access to everything
they have on Alcatraz.
197
00:14:05,978 --> 00:14:09,481
When I talked to
the US Marshal Service
this morning,
198
00:14:09,515 --> 00:14:13,452
they indicated that
this was the first time
that Art's been on the case
199
00:14:13,485 --> 00:14:14,987
in 12 years,
I believe he said,
200
00:14:15,020 --> 00:14:18,190
that they had anything
really worth pursuing.
201
00:14:18,224 --> 00:14:21,727
They felt that it had
enough possibilities
202
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,162
to dedicate some time to it.
203
00:14:25,798 --> 00:14:30,703
Alcatraz was designed and run
as a maximum-security,
minimum-privilege penitentiary.
204
00:14:30,736 --> 00:14:34,306
That meant our inmates
received no tailor-made
cigarettes,
205
00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:38,110
candy bars, chewing gum,
soft drinks, radio, television,
206
00:14:38,143 --> 00:14:41,113
newspapers, paroles,
or rehabilitation programs.
207
00:14:41,146 --> 00:14:43,549
That none of that
was being sent here.
208
00:14:43,582 --> 00:14:46,185
In fact, none of our inmates
were sent from a court.
209
00:14:46,218 --> 00:14:49,321
They were all sent
from another prison
having a problem.
210
00:14:49,355 --> 00:14:52,658
And someone told me from
the prison they came from,
the warden in the institution
211
00:14:52,691 --> 00:14:55,160
would have a picture
of Alcatraz behind his desk,
212
00:14:55,194 --> 00:14:56,996
and he'd point
to that picture and say,
213
00:14:57,029 --> 00:15:01,200
"If I see you one more time,
that's it, you're going...
You are going to Alcatraz."
214
00:15:01,233 --> 00:15:03,802
And you knew you were going
to do some tough times.
215
00:15:03,836 --> 00:15:05,738
Now, you come
and visit the island,
216
00:15:05,771 --> 00:15:07,706
you look out and see
all these beautiful views.
217
00:15:07,740 --> 00:15:11,143
You see San Fransisco,
the East Bay, Marin County.
218
00:15:11,176 --> 00:15:13,445
You say, "Gee,
that's not so bad."
219
00:15:13,479 --> 00:15:16,548
But how'd you like to
have water held out to you
and you can't drink it?
220
00:15:16,582 --> 00:15:20,119
You know,
it's a city so close
and yet so far.
221
00:15:23,289 --> 00:15:25,357
ZIRILLI: Is there any way
you think they made it?
222
00:15:25,391 --> 00:15:27,893
Ah, at first, I would
have said yes,
223
00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:33,032
but since they haven't
showed up in all these years,
I doubt it, no.
224
00:15:33,065 --> 00:15:35,768
Given the bay
and the tide conditions
that night
225
00:15:35,801 --> 00:15:40,539
and what physical evidence
was discovered over the next
couple days by the FBI,
226
00:15:40,572 --> 00:15:42,841
most of the staff
on the island have
been of the opinion
227
00:15:42,875 --> 00:15:45,077
that they probably
didn't survive the swim.
228
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:47,346
I don't think there's been
any trace of them found.
229
00:15:47,379 --> 00:15:48,948
Which in a way
is kind of unusual
230
00:15:48,981 --> 00:15:52,518
because bodies do turn up
in the bay here mostly
when somebody drowns,
231
00:15:52,551 --> 00:15:54,920
they'll find pieces of them,
they'll find parts
of their clothes.
232
00:15:54,954 --> 00:15:58,490
It's 50 degrees out there
or about 10 to 12 Celsius.
233
00:15:58,524 --> 00:15:59,892
It's very cold.
234
00:15:59,925 --> 00:16:03,729
Although 400 people a year
swim from Alcatraz
to San Francisco,
235
00:16:03,762 --> 00:16:07,166
in at least two, maybe three,
swims a year.
236
00:16:07,199 --> 00:16:09,034
Most people can't handle it.
237
00:16:09,068 --> 00:16:11,603
If you can't do it
in 35 or 40 minutes,
238
00:16:11,637 --> 00:16:14,340
um, you know, you're gonna
be in trouble.
239
00:16:14,373 --> 00:16:15,841
So it can be done.
240
00:16:15,874 --> 00:16:18,410
It definitely can be done.
It's done all the time.
241
00:16:18,444 --> 00:16:20,746
One of the stories
that's most often been told
242
00:16:20,779 --> 00:16:22,781
was that they planned
to steal a boat
in Angel Island
243
00:16:22,815 --> 00:16:25,050
and given that
that didn't happen,
244
00:16:25,084 --> 00:16:27,252
that sort of led
to a general belief
245
00:16:27,286 --> 00:16:29,488
that the chances are
that they didn't make it.
246
00:16:29,521 --> 00:16:31,957
However, we know
of many swims,
247
00:16:31,991 --> 00:16:34,626
organized swims,
that do that bay
every year,
248
00:16:34,660 --> 00:16:37,129
so we always sort of
leave the story
with an open end
249
00:16:37,162 --> 00:16:41,266
that, well, one never knows,
after all, they were
pretty highly motivated.
250
00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:44,503
You know, the point
that they left
their cells that night,
251
00:16:44,536 --> 00:16:48,173
at that point,
they were escaped convicts,
they had nothing left to lose.
252
00:16:48,207 --> 00:16:49,575
Once a federal inmate
escapes from prison,
253
00:16:49,608 --> 00:16:51,510
that becomes
an FBI case apparently.
254
00:16:51,543 --> 00:16:53,746
You know, it comes
under their jurisdiction.
255
00:16:53,779 --> 00:16:55,547
However, as a fugitive
from justice,
256
00:16:55,581 --> 00:16:59,318
the US Marshal Service
has jurisdiction too.
257
00:16:59,351 --> 00:17:03,022
The Bureau of Prisons would
still of course, you know,
potentially be involved in this.
258
00:17:03,055 --> 00:17:05,991
In the sense,
they are fugitives
from the Bureau of Prisons.
259
00:17:06,025 --> 00:17:08,227
They would still have time
on their original sentences.
260
00:17:08,260 --> 00:17:10,295
There's no statute
of limitations.
261
00:17:10,329 --> 00:17:14,466
So there's various
law enforcement agencies
should evidence pan out,
262
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:17,202
and there'd be
more to the story
that we now know.
263
00:17:17,236 --> 00:17:19,304
There'd be several
federal agencies ultimately
264
00:17:19,338 --> 00:17:21,306
that will probably
be interested in it.
265
00:17:21,340 --> 00:17:23,575
If you talk to any
of the former prisoners,
266
00:17:23,609 --> 00:17:26,478
they'll, of course,
all of them say
they got away.
267
00:17:26,512 --> 00:17:28,247
And if you talk
to the former guards,
268
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,651
they'll all of them say
they're dead,
they drowned at sea.
269
00:17:32,684 --> 00:17:35,687
But they're still
on the wanted list
of the FBI
270
00:17:35,721 --> 00:17:38,157
and so they're
not gonna give up
until there's some proof
271
00:17:38,190 --> 00:17:40,459
that they actually died.
272
00:17:40,492 --> 00:17:42,194
ZIRILLI:
Is there any way you think
they made it?
273
00:17:42,227 --> 00:17:43,295
Absolutely.
274
00:17:43,328 --> 00:17:44,396
Really?
275
00:17:44,430 --> 00:17:47,966
Yeah, I helped them
with some tools to do that,
276
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,237
and I know John and Clarence
swam before they could walk.
277
00:17:52,271 --> 00:17:54,973
They were born and raised
in the Everglades, so...
278
00:17:55,007 --> 00:17:57,776
I... Personally,
I think they made it.
279
00:18:00,112 --> 00:18:02,648
[TYPEWRITER CLACKING]
280
00:18:02,681 --> 00:18:05,551
NURSE: John has told me
that he and a friend
281
00:18:05,584 --> 00:18:10,022
helped the three convicts
to escape from
Alcatraz Federal Prison
282
00:18:10,055 --> 00:18:11,857
in San Francisco.
283
00:18:16,728 --> 00:18:20,132
KELLY: At 11:15 p.m.
on Monday June 11th,
284
00:18:20,165 --> 00:18:23,702
Robert and I were in a boat
off Alcatraz Island Prison.
285
00:18:24,937 --> 00:18:27,106
At approximately
10 minutes to midnight,
286
00:18:27,139 --> 00:18:31,743
we moved to the area
just outside the city marina.
287
00:18:31,777 --> 00:18:35,781
At about midnight,
I heard splashes
in the water.
288
00:18:35,814 --> 00:18:40,419
They were lying across
a homemade life raft.
289
00:18:40,452 --> 00:18:46,692
We picked up escaped inmates
Frank Lee Morris, John Anglin,
and Clarence Anglin.
290
00:18:48,627 --> 00:18:52,498
I remember one of the men,
Frank Morris, laughed
291
00:18:52,531 --> 00:18:54,867
and asked if we were
their ride.
292
00:18:55,968 --> 00:18:59,371
Robert asked
where was the other two.
293
00:18:59,404 --> 00:19:01,406
Frank Morris said
they were it.
294
00:19:06,678 --> 00:19:09,515
We took them north
of Seattle on the boat.
295
00:19:23,462 --> 00:19:25,397
When we got back
to Bellingham,
296
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:29,668
we had the three convicts
get into the back of the truck
that we used for painting
297
00:19:29,701 --> 00:19:31,470
and had them lie down
in the back.
298
00:19:43,582 --> 00:19:45,517
[INDISTINCT CHATTER]
299
00:19:45,551 --> 00:19:46,852
[GATE CLANKS SHUT]
300
00:19:50,222 --> 00:19:53,692
GLASSNER:
Alcatraz had a reputation,
I think it was
301
00:19:53,725 --> 00:19:57,196
to a large degree deserved
of being run more by the book
than any other facility.
302
00:19:57,229 --> 00:20:00,532
It was part of the reason
they created Alcatraz in 1934
303
00:20:00,566 --> 00:20:03,569
because of problems
that did exist
in other federal prisons.
304
00:20:03,602 --> 00:20:08,173
But there are
certainly stories of pay-off.
305
00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:11,543
I mean, at a low level,
there were guards that
broke some of the rules,
306
00:20:11,577 --> 00:20:14,513
inconsequential rules like
you're not allowed
to have candy.
307
00:20:14,546 --> 00:20:16,181
There was no commissary
to buy candy on the island.
308
00:20:16,215 --> 00:20:18,183
Yet, there was
a correctional officer
that worked in the shop
309
00:20:18,217 --> 00:20:20,452
that would sometimes slip
an inmate a piece of candy
310
00:20:20,485 --> 00:20:23,488
if they'd done a particularly
good job on the line.
311
00:20:23,522 --> 00:20:25,624
One day, one of these inmates
got caught with that candy
312
00:20:25,657 --> 00:20:27,793
and rather than turning
the guard in,
313
00:20:27,826 --> 00:20:32,564
he did 19 days in solitary,
I guess it may have
been a bit more.
314
00:20:32,598 --> 00:20:34,666
Punishment for refusing
to inform...
315
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:36,969
'Cause they knew
this had to come from
the correctional staff.
316
00:20:37,002 --> 00:20:40,572
We know of, again,
religious staff on the island
317
00:20:40,606 --> 00:20:41,907
that came out here,
318
00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:45,644
in at least one case,
smuggling letters
off the island
319
00:20:45,677 --> 00:20:47,746
because they felt
the inmates had
more of a right
320
00:20:47,779 --> 00:20:51,416
to private correspondence
with their lawyers than what
the law allowed at that time.
321
00:20:51,450 --> 00:20:54,253
ZIRILLI: Craig, one of
the ranger sheriff, said that
322
00:20:54,286 --> 00:20:55,954
the religious staff
sometimes thought
323
00:20:55,988 --> 00:20:58,357
that conditions
were a little tough
324
00:20:58,390 --> 00:21:02,561
and that sometimes priests
or the religious staff
325
00:21:02,594 --> 00:21:04,663
would help give information
and letters,
326
00:21:04,696 --> 00:21:07,332
bring letters
to the families and such.
327
00:21:07,366 --> 00:21:08,800
Do you know
anything about that?
328
00:21:08,834 --> 00:21:13,905
No, I would say
that the religious staff,
as I understood it,
329
00:21:13,939 --> 00:21:16,308
and certainly myself
as a part of
the religious staff
330
00:21:16,341 --> 00:21:19,177
and a priest, the priest
that I worked with
coming out here
331
00:21:19,211 --> 00:21:21,613
were scrupulous about that.
332
00:21:21,647 --> 00:21:24,082
We were instructed
in a number of ways
333
00:21:24,116 --> 00:21:26,752
that we're never to take
any contraband in or out.
334
00:21:26,785 --> 00:21:29,621
And also, there was
a no-hostage policy.
335
00:21:29,655 --> 00:21:33,158
So when we went down
into the yard to walk around
and talk with them down there,
336
00:21:33,191 --> 00:21:36,228
we knew that if they ever
grabbed us and captured us
in any way at all,
337
00:21:36,261 --> 00:21:38,330
the guards on the towers
would start shooting.
338
00:21:38,363 --> 00:21:40,732
And so you kinda took
your life in your hands
339
00:21:40,766 --> 00:21:42,834
if you ever did go
down in there.
340
00:21:42,868 --> 00:21:45,304
But I never ever felt insecure
around the prisoners.
341
00:21:45,337 --> 00:21:47,606
They were always
extremely kind to me
342
00:21:47,639 --> 00:21:49,741
and also very respectful of me.
343
00:21:49,775 --> 00:21:51,243
And I think part of it
had to do with the fact
344
00:21:51,276 --> 00:21:53,512
that we were able
to get in here
from the outside.
345
00:21:53,545 --> 00:21:55,914
Very, very few people
including their wives
and children
346
00:21:55,947 --> 00:21:58,917
couldn't get into this prison.
They talked to 'em
through those walls, you know,
347
00:21:58,950 --> 00:22:03,221
with those two-inch thick
glass windows
and through telephone.
348
00:22:03,255 --> 00:22:04,790
And we would
actually walk in here.
349
00:22:04,823 --> 00:22:06,425
We could touch them,
they could touch us.
350
00:22:06,458 --> 00:22:09,261
They could ask us questions.
We would tell them about
the outside world.
351
00:22:09,294 --> 00:22:10,929
And so we were
kind of a breath...
352
00:22:10,962 --> 00:22:16,168
I was and chaplain
service people were a kind of
a breath of fresh air for them
353
00:22:16,201 --> 00:22:18,704
and a kind of a bright spot
in their life.
354
00:22:18,737 --> 00:22:21,273
They were not about
to hurt us or take us hostage.
355
00:22:21,306 --> 00:22:23,742
I never had any
experience like that.
356
00:22:23,775 --> 00:22:27,679
And I also never heard
of any chaplain ever taking
contraband in or out.
357
00:22:27,713 --> 00:22:30,615
Sometimes, we took messages
in the sense that, uh...
358
00:22:30,649 --> 00:22:32,818
They'd say, "Well,
say hello to my wife"
or somebody
359
00:22:32,851 --> 00:22:36,121
if you knew the person,
but you'd just say hello,
that was all.
360
00:22:36,154 --> 00:22:38,023
ZIRILLI: Apparently,
there was a woman
on the outside
361
00:22:38,056 --> 00:22:40,459
that was helping
make arrangements
for their escape.
362
00:22:40,492 --> 00:22:42,394
Well, that's what they said.
363
00:22:47,933 --> 00:22:51,636
KELLY: My uncle,
Donald Leroy Robertson,
364
00:22:51,670 --> 00:22:55,907
is the one that got me
involved in the Alcatraz
Prison Escape.
365
00:22:55,941 --> 00:22:59,177
He had been a driver
for several big-time
bank robbers
366
00:22:59,211 --> 00:23:03,749
at one time or another
in the 1930s and 1940s,
367
00:23:03,782 --> 00:23:05,751
and he knew
Frank Lee Morris.
368
00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:10,622
In October of 1961,
369
00:23:10,655 --> 00:23:14,126
my Uncle Donald had me go
to San Francisco
370
00:23:14,159 --> 00:23:17,462
to meet a woman
named Eugena McGowen
371
00:23:17,496 --> 00:23:22,968
in St. Anthony's Catholic
Church in the San Francisco
Tenderloin District.
372
00:23:23,001 --> 00:23:24,970
That day changed
my life forever.
373
00:23:25,003 --> 00:23:30,642
Many times over the years,
I have wished that I had
not went to that meeting.
374
00:23:30,675 --> 00:23:32,444
She told me that day
375
00:23:32,477 --> 00:23:35,747
that five convicts were going
to escape from Alcatraz
376
00:23:35,781 --> 00:23:38,583
and that she needed me
to provide a boat
377
00:23:38,617 --> 00:23:40,719
to pick them up
and take them to safety.
378
00:23:42,788 --> 00:23:44,856
She told me that
the convicts' families
379
00:23:44,890 --> 00:23:48,226
had come up with over
$60,000 to help them escape,
380
00:23:48,260 --> 00:23:52,764
and that six guards
at Alcatraz Prison
were receiving payoffs
381
00:23:52,798 --> 00:23:56,001
to look the other way
or to help the convicts.
382
00:23:56,034 --> 00:23:58,804
She said that she was
telling me all of this
383
00:23:58,837 --> 00:24:00,806
so I and my partner Robert
384
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:05,177
would know that the escape
would be able to happen
without any problems.
385
00:24:08,213 --> 00:24:12,818
She gave me 5,000 cash
in 20s in an envelope
that day,
386
00:24:12,851 --> 00:24:15,253
and she was to give me
another 5,000
387
00:24:15,287 --> 00:24:20,058
when she found out
the exact night the convicts
would be able to get out.
388
00:24:21,893 --> 00:24:23,962
Eugena never knew it,
389
00:24:23,995 --> 00:24:25,964
but she had sealed
the convicts' fate
390
00:24:25,997 --> 00:24:29,968
when she told me
that the convicts would be
picking up $50,000.
391
00:24:31,570 --> 00:24:34,339
Robert was obsessed
with trying
to figure out some way
392
00:24:34,372 --> 00:24:37,175
to separate the convicts
from the $50,000
393
00:24:37,209 --> 00:24:38,844
when we got them back
to Seattle.
394
00:24:41,513 --> 00:24:45,450
I can't believe now
that I went along with
Robert's wild scheme.
395
00:24:51,857 --> 00:24:53,925
According to
all the evidence available,
396
00:24:53,959 --> 00:24:56,761
most importantly,
the FBI's investigation,
397
00:24:56,795 --> 00:25:01,066
the point at which
the Anglin brothers and
Frank Morris went into the bay
398
00:25:01,099 --> 00:25:04,369
is just around the corner
from the point
you see it from here.
399
00:25:04,402 --> 00:25:06,805
But their choice of location
to go into the water
400
00:25:06,838 --> 00:25:10,408
would have been very important
to take into account,
this tower being here.
401
00:25:10,442 --> 00:25:14,746
Other towers were by and large
at the back end and other side
of the island.
402
00:25:14,779 --> 00:25:17,249
There used to be a tower
on the roof of the cell house
403
00:25:17,282 --> 00:25:20,318
from which
they made their escape
from the building.
404
00:25:20,352 --> 00:25:25,590
That had been closed down
due to budget cuts and
staff shortages years earlier.
405
00:25:31,663 --> 00:25:33,765
GLASSNER: Here we have
the cell house at the top
of the island,
406
00:25:33,798 --> 00:25:37,636
originally constructed
by the army when this was
a military prison.
407
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:42,440
The Anglins made their escape
from an air vent
approximately in this area.
408
00:25:42,474 --> 00:25:44,509
By all accounts,
they made their way down here
409
00:25:44,543 --> 00:25:46,845
where they were able
to slide down an exhaust vent
410
00:25:46,878 --> 00:25:49,748
from one of the kitchen stoves
down below.
411
00:25:49,781 --> 00:25:53,184
This was the mess hall
and food preparation area
and the hospital.
412
00:25:57,956 --> 00:26:00,425
GLASSNER: Remember,
as you look at the island,
413
00:26:00,458 --> 00:26:04,396
the plush vegetation
all over the islands,
they didn't exist back then.
414
00:26:04,429 --> 00:26:06,998
They didn't want
a shrubbery this tall
415
00:26:07,032 --> 00:26:08,466
in the days
that this was a prison,
416
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:10,201
Everything was very low
and trim.
417
00:26:10,235 --> 00:26:12,504
There were gardens,
there were flowers,
there were trees,
418
00:26:12,537 --> 00:26:16,608
Everything was trimmed in a way
to prevent there from being
places to hide.
419
00:26:16,641 --> 00:26:19,277
But certainly by this time,
420
00:26:19,311 --> 00:26:24,049
staffing shortages
and budget cuts
had an effect on security.
421
00:26:24,082 --> 00:26:26,451
The roof tower had been
shut down completely.
422
00:26:26,484 --> 00:26:28,153
Had there been a tower
on the roof...
423
00:26:28,186 --> 00:26:30,488
Had that still been there,
this escape never could
have happened.
424
00:26:30,522 --> 00:26:33,959
The road tower would have
been the tower over on
this side of the island,
425
00:26:33,992 --> 00:26:35,760
which according
to all the physical evidence
426
00:26:35,794 --> 00:26:38,797
is the side of the island
that the three left from
that night.
427
00:26:38,830 --> 00:26:42,701
From the road tower,
the view of the point that
they went into the water
428
00:26:42,734 --> 00:26:44,369
would have been
right around the corner.
429
00:26:46,171 --> 00:26:47,939
KELLY: On May 11th,
I met Eugena
430
00:26:47,973 --> 00:26:50,175
in front of St. Anthony's
Catholic Church.
431
00:27:05,056 --> 00:27:10,395
We walked to the waterfront,
and we met a man
in the shadows there.
432
00:27:10,428 --> 00:27:14,432
He showed me where the water
was likely to carry
the convicts on a raft to,
433
00:27:14,466 --> 00:27:19,437
and he told me to expect them
just after midnight
on June 11th.
434
00:27:19,471 --> 00:27:22,340
He told me that the convicts
would run into no trouble
435
00:27:22,374 --> 00:27:24,275
because he was going
to make sure
436
00:27:24,309 --> 00:27:27,078
that there was no guard
in the road tower that night.
437
00:27:30,815 --> 00:27:34,285
He said that we should have
till 8:00 a.m. at the earliest
438
00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:36,621
to get away before
the alarm was sounded.
439
00:27:37,956 --> 00:27:41,559
Later on, I discovered
that the man we met
that night
440
00:27:41,593 --> 00:27:44,896
was Alcatraz Prison guard
Captain Bradley.
441
00:27:44,929 --> 00:27:47,866
I'd always wondered
how no one ever found out
442
00:27:47,899 --> 00:27:51,002
that something wasn't right
at Alcatraz Prison that night.
443
00:27:52,937 --> 00:27:56,241
One thing that Morris figured
was sure to get
the guards caught
444
00:27:56,274 --> 00:27:59,778
was all the things
that were hid
on top of the cell house.
445
00:28:01,713 --> 00:28:08,186
He said that at least
50 to 60 raincoats
were used to make the rafts.
446
00:28:08,219 --> 00:28:11,723
When two of the convicts
didn't take part
in the escape,
447
00:28:11,756 --> 00:28:16,161
one of the rafts was left
on top of the cell house.
448
00:28:16,194 --> 00:28:20,331
Morris said
that several guards,
not just one or two,
449
00:28:20,365 --> 00:28:23,168
turned their heads
or just didn't say anything
450
00:28:23,201 --> 00:28:27,906
about the things they had seen
in the weeks leading up
to the escape.
451
00:28:27,939 --> 00:28:30,775
Frank Morris told us
that Captain Bradley
452
00:28:30,809 --> 00:28:33,244
had gone as far
as to order blankets
453
00:28:33,278 --> 00:28:36,081
to be hung up over the top
of the cell house
454
00:28:36,114 --> 00:28:40,585
to keep paint from
falling into the cells
and the floor below.
455
00:28:40,618 --> 00:28:43,188
But the real reason
the blankets were
put up there
456
00:28:43,221 --> 00:28:45,790
was to give the convicts
unrestricted access
457
00:28:45,824 --> 00:28:48,326
to the rooftop
of the cell house,
458
00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:51,563
and to allow the convicts
to escape.
459
00:28:51,596 --> 00:28:54,065
I mean, ironically,
even though everyone knew
those blankets were there,
460
00:28:54,099 --> 00:28:56,234
it's not in the official
Bureau of Prison's report.
461
00:28:56,267 --> 00:28:58,503
The fact that those blankets
that were up there,
462
00:28:58,536 --> 00:29:01,740
blocking the guard's view
of that area on the roof
of the cell block,
463
00:29:01,773 --> 00:29:04,075
allowing them to make
their escape that night...
464
00:29:04,109 --> 00:29:06,377
The fact that those
were up there for months.
465
00:29:06,411 --> 00:29:08,947
Arguments amongst the guards
who has authority
466
00:29:08,980 --> 00:29:10,849
to okay those blankets
being there or not.
467
00:29:10,882 --> 00:29:12,917
But what it was
is some of the guys
planning the escape
468
00:29:12,951 --> 00:29:14,886
worked in the cell house,
469
00:29:14,919 --> 00:29:17,288
and they pointed out
how badly that area
470
00:29:17,322 --> 00:29:18,490
where there were
some utility pipes
471
00:29:18,523 --> 00:29:19,991
between the top
of the cell block
472
00:29:20,024 --> 00:29:23,228
and the actual roof
of the building, there was
a gap there by design.
473
00:29:23,261 --> 00:29:25,630
So each cell block
is a building
within the cell house,
474
00:29:25,663 --> 00:29:29,634
but no part of the cell block
touches the exterior surface
of the building.
475
00:29:29,667 --> 00:29:32,504
Well, they needed some way
to work up there
to get through the air vents
476
00:29:32,537 --> 00:29:35,073
and so they said, "Well,
we need to paint this area."
477
00:29:35,106 --> 00:29:38,276
But with all the dust and
debris and paint chips that are
gonna be flying around,
478
00:29:38,309 --> 00:29:41,246
"Gee, can we get some
blankets from the army supply
479
00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:43,181
"that we wash out here
and hang them up
480
00:29:43,214 --> 00:29:44,816
"to contain
all the dirt and debris."
481
00:29:44,849 --> 00:29:46,684
One correctional officer said,
"No way."
482
00:29:46,718 --> 00:29:48,887
The other one pulled rank
and said, "No,
you're gonna have it.
483
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,356
"We don't want all that stuff
floating around the cell house
and people,
484
00:29:51,389 --> 00:29:54,893
"you know, being... getting
eye irritations from this,"
and stuff.
485
00:29:54,926 --> 00:29:56,528
"So go ahead and do this."
486
00:29:56,561 --> 00:29:59,330
ZIRILLI: How many people
do you think knew about
the planning of the escape?
487
00:29:59,364 --> 00:30:01,900
Everybody.
Everybody but the guards.
488
00:30:03,368 --> 00:30:06,037
One of the inmates
that was in the cell house
at the time
489
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:08,072
that was marginally involved
in the plan...
490
00:30:09,107 --> 00:30:11,476
He, the night of the escape...
491
00:30:11,509 --> 00:30:13,178
And this is
fairly well documented.
492
00:30:13,211 --> 00:30:16,581
Some tools or other implements
were dropped down through
the utility corridor,
493
00:30:16,614 --> 00:30:21,119
bounced off some of
the water or sewage pipes
that were back in the area.
494
00:30:21,152 --> 00:30:25,089
What surprised him
was the lack of response.
495
00:30:25,123 --> 00:30:28,193
I mean, these guys were
climbing up and down the pipes
every night,
496
00:30:28,226 --> 00:30:30,395
in the backs
of other guys' cells,
497
00:30:30,428 --> 00:30:34,799
and so they had to make
all kinds of arrangements
with these people
498
00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:36,701
because there was a group
of black prisoners
499
00:30:36,734 --> 00:30:38,203
and these were
all white guys.
500
00:30:38,236 --> 00:30:40,905
And they had to climb...
And they were white
Southern prisoners too.
501
00:30:40,939 --> 00:30:44,509
And they were climbing up
the back of these black guys'
cells to get up on the roof.
502
00:30:44,542 --> 00:30:47,245
Well, it didn't take them
very long to figure out
what was going on,
503
00:30:47,278 --> 00:30:49,781
and so they had to make
some compromises and deals
504
00:30:49,814 --> 00:30:51,216
with the other prisoners
around here.
505
00:30:51,249 --> 00:30:54,018
So word kinda got around
and got around and got around.
506
00:30:54,052 --> 00:30:56,754
I must say I was surprised,
believe it or not,
507
00:30:56,788 --> 00:30:58,723
I was surprised that
I didn't know anything
about it.
508
00:31:13,805 --> 00:31:16,040
KELLY: The real surprise
of the trip
509
00:31:16,074 --> 00:31:18,877
came when we got back
to my Uncle Donald's house.
510
00:31:27,518 --> 00:31:30,421
He was the one holding
the hidden 50,000.
511
00:32:04,656 --> 00:32:07,926
We received our 10,000 more
512
00:32:07,959 --> 00:32:11,429
with my Uncle Donald
getting 4,000 of the 40.
513
00:32:29,981 --> 00:32:33,918
We stayed at Uncle Donald's
for over a week.
514
00:32:33,952 --> 00:32:35,987
Frank Morris
and the Anglin brothers
515
00:32:36,020 --> 00:32:38,323
were sure the guards
would be arrested
516
00:32:38,356 --> 00:32:41,559
and kept listening to the radio
and watched the newspapers
517
00:32:41,592 --> 00:32:46,431
to see the story about
the arrest of the guards,
but it never happened.
518
00:32:46,464 --> 00:32:48,900
When they read the story
in the newspapers
519
00:32:48,933 --> 00:32:52,337
that spoons had been used
to dig out of the cells,
520
00:32:52,370 --> 00:32:54,272
they broke down laughing.
521
00:32:54,305 --> 00:32:56,507
They said that
shortly before the escape,
522
00:32:56,541 --> 00:33:00,211
jackhammers were used
to replace the toilets
in the cells.
523
00:33:02,347 --> 00:33:04,816
The jackhammer was operated
by Alan West,
524
00:33:04,849 --> 00:33:07,885
who they said
had been assigned
to prison maintenance
525
00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:10,755
since May of 1961.
526
00:33:10,788 --> 00:33:14,525
He was allowed
to work in the space
behind the cells alone
527
00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:17,261
because the guards
didn't want to get dirty.
528
00:33:17,295 --> 00:33:18,696
While he was back there,
529
00:33:18,730 --> 00:33:22,266
he used the jackhammer
to cut the air vent open.
530
00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:26,371
The three convicts said
they would have never
been able to get out
531
00:33:26,404 --> 00:33:29,941
if it hadn't been
for Alan West
with the jackhammer.
532
00:33:29,974 --> 00:33:34,479
Alan West is generally
credited with being very
involved in the plan
533
00:33:34,512 --> 00:33:36,514
and with the escape attempt.
534
00:33:36,547 --> 00:33:39,417
He... his statement to the FBI
535
00:33:39,450 --> 00:33:43,488
was the night of the escape,
he had trouble opening up
the fake air vent
536
00:33:43,521 --> 00:33:46,391
that they'd drilled in his cell
and then trouble getting out.
537
00:33:46,424 --> 00:33:48,526
That's why he didn't
escape that night.
538
00:33:48,559 --> 00:33:51,863
By the time he got out
and went up to the roof,
the other three were long gone.
539
00:33:51,896 --> 00:33:55,033
If you've ever been up there,
it's interesting getting on top
of the cell block
540
00:33:55,066 --> 00:33:56,768
and to take a look
at what they actually
did up there,
541
00:33:56,801 --> 00:33:58,336
which is phenomenal,
542
00:33:58,369 --> 00:34:01,672
when you see
what they had to do under
the scrutiny of the guards.
543
00:34:01,706 --> 00:34:04,575
We know other inmates
that were here
that aided and abetted
544
00:34:04,609 --> 00:34:06,511
in other ways
in the escape plan.
545
00:34:06,544 --> 00:34:10,148
It was real obvious talking
to inmates that were on
the island at the time
546
00:34:10,181 --> 00:34:13,851
that there was a lot of people
that were aware of
what was going on
547
00:34:13,885 --> 00:34:15,420
and in various ways
supporting them.
548
00:34:15,453 --> 00:34:18,056
June 12th, 1962,
549
00:34:18,089 --> 00:34:20,191
the escape had occurred
the night before,
550
00:34:20,224 --> 00:34:21,459
but none of us knew it.
551
00:34:21,492 --> 00:34:24,729
Because the masks worked,
the dummies worked.
552
00:34:24,762 --> 00:34:28,132
GLASSNER: You know, we know
people that helped them
getting the flesh tones right.
553
00:34:28,166 --> 00:34:30,568
And little rouge
to make the cheeks
look more realistic.
554
00:34:30,601 --> 00:34:32,303
Hair from the barber shop.
555
00:34:32,336 --> 00:34:33,938
Tools and implements
from around.
556
00:34:33,971 --> 00:34:37,608
The material... I mean,
it had to be a significant
amount of fabric,
557
00:34:37,642 --> 00:34:40,378
raincoat material
from their vests
and their pontoons
558
00:34:40,411 --> 00:34:42,513
that they were using
to build some sort of a raft.
559
00:34:42,547 --> 00:34:46,584
Out of those four men,
Alan West was
the most dangerous.
560
00:34:46,617 --> 00:34:48,553
He got the men out of there.
561
00:34:48,586 --> 00:34:51,255
If it wasn't for him,
they'd have never
gotten to the roof.
562
00:34:51,289 --> 00:34:55,860
Alan West is generally
credited for being
563
00:34:55,893 --> 00:34:58,896
one of the main brains
behind the escape.
564
00:34:58,930 --> 00:35:00,698
You know, others say
other things too.
565
00:35:00,731 --> 00:35:03,067
But, you know,
he certainly was involved...
566
00:35:03,101 --> 00:35:07,305
Certainly had an opportunity
that night to be
the fourth man...
567
00:35:07,338 --> 00:35:09,240
But he didn't go in the end.
568
00:35:10,374 --> 00:35:14,312
And people always wonder why.
He was either...
569
00:35:14,345 --> 00:35:16,781
Either couldn't get out
of his cell as he claimed
570
00:35:16,814 --> 00:35:18,282
or he chickened out,
take your pick.
571
00:35:18,316 --> 00:35:20,017
I kinda thought
about the idea
572
00:35:20,051 --> 00:35:23,554
that maybe he had decided
this was a suicide attempt
rather than an escape attempt,
573
00:35:23,588 --> 00:35:27,291
Didn't wanna say to
the other guys that were
very involved in this,
574
00:35:27,325 --> 00:35:29,227
"Hey, I don't think
it's gonna work after all."
575
00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:31,762
And maybe just backed out
and didn't try to get out
that night
576
00:35:31,796 --> 00:35:33,464
knowing that they wouldn't
wait for him.
577
00:35:33,498 --> 00:35:36,868
Whether or not that's true,
I have no reason to know
one way or the other,
578
00:35:36,901 --> 00:35:38,569
but that seemed like
another possible scenario
579
00:35:38,603 --> 00:35:40,705
to why he was still
in his cell that morning
580
00:35:40,738 --> 00:35:43,107
when the other three
were long gone.
581
00:35:43,141 --> 00:35:44,742
ZIRILLI: What more
could they get,
582
00:35:44,775 --> 00:35:47,845
just more time
if they were caught
trying to escape?
583
00:35:47,879 --> 00:35:50,681
What they would have had
was probably some time
in isolation
584
00:35:50,715 --> 00:35:52,717
in D Block at that time.
585
00:35:52,750 --> 00:35:57,155
And then certainly time could
be added to their sentence
for the escape attempt.
586
00:35:57,188 --> 00:36:01,058
ZIRILLI: Can you describe
what D Block was like,
if you were put in there.
587
00:36:01,092 --> 00:36:04,595
GLASSNER: Ironically, it had
the best views of the
cell house and larger cells,
588
00:36:04,629 --> 00:36:07,131
'cause it was
the most recently
renovated area.
589
00:36:07,165 --> 00:36:09,467
What made D Block tough
was that good view
590
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:12,136
because that was the view
of freedom you didn't have.
591
00:36:12,170 --> 00:36:16,474
And the fact that
you were locked in there
24 hours a day.
592
00:36:16,507 --> 00:36:19,443
It was a larger cell
than the regular inmate cells
593
00:36:19,477 --> 00:36:23,314
because they were
newly renovated
in the 1940s.
594
00:36:23,347 --> 00:36:26,284
But you were on lock down,
you know, 24 hours a day.
595
00:36:26,317 --> 00:36:28,619
You didn't have any
of the privileges that...
596
00:36:28,653 --> 00:36:33,357
the mess hall, you know,
any of the other privileges
that the other inmates got,
597
00:36:33,391 --> 00:36:36,694
which were a lot less
than other prisons.
598
00:36:36,727 --> 00:36:40,164
D Block was, you know,
mentally, it was a tough time
599
00:36:40,198 --> 00:36:43,768
to spend 24 hours a day looking
at the same three walls
and a set of bars.
600
00:36:51,342 --> 00:36:54,145
KELLY: While we were
at my Uncle Donald's,
601
00:36:54,178 --> 00:36:57,415
the three convicts told us
that Clarence Carns
602
00:36:57,448 --> 00:36:59,684
had not been able
to get out of his cell.
603
00:37:03,554 --> 00:37:06,691
And that Alan West
had just flat chickened out.
604
00:37:08,693 --> 00:37:11,929
He told them
he was going all along,
605
00:37:11,963 --> 00:37:16,434
then at the last minute,
he told them that
he was afraid of the water.
606
00:37:16,467 --> 00:37:20,371
He was also concerned
that they would get
in the water
607
00:37:20,404 --> 00:37:23,474
and there wouldn't be
any boat out there.
608
00:37:26,277 --> 00:37:30,748
They didn't know it,
but that made things
a lot easier for us,
609
00:37:32,283 --> 00:37:36,254
the fact that there were
three convicts, not five.
610
00:37:41,692 --> 00:37:45,596
NURSE: This week
I arranged for a local priest
to start counseling John
611
00:37:45,630 --> 00:37:47,498
and hear his confession.
612
00:37:47,531 --> 00:37:50,334
It seems to have
improved his spirits greatly.
613
00:37:50,368 --> 00:37:52,870
I cannot sign this statement
or give my name
614
00:37:52,903 --> 00:37:55,806
because I have broken
patient confidentiality
615
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,343
by giving some
of the information
I have in this account.
616
00:37:59,377 --> 00:38:03,080
I could be fired from my job
or lose my nurse's license.
617
00:38:03,114 --> 00:38:06,017
So for that reason,
I must remain anonymous,
618
00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:08,219
but I will do my best
after John's death
619
00:38:08,252 --> 00:38:13,691
to ensure that this statement
and John's statement
get into the right hands.
620
00:38:13,724 --> 00:38:15,926
Do you know if the nurse
621
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,163
that took the statement
from John Kelly,
622
00:38:19,196 --> 00:38:21,299
if she took...
623
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,936
There's something in there
that says "Put it in
a safety deposit."
624
00:38:25,970 --> 00:38:27,672
ZIRILLI: I've got
the original document.
625
00:38:27,705 --> 00:38:29,507
Is it handwritten
or is it typed?
It's typed.
626
00:38:29,540 --> 00:38:33,911
I know she says, "I typed,"
but I don't know
if originally she took...
627
00:38:33,944 --> 00:38:37,515
She was trying to turn it over
to John's sister,
628
00:38:37,548 --> 00:38:38,983
but she didn't want it.
629
00:38:39,016 --> 00:38:40,618
RODERICK: So she gave
the whole thing up.
630
00:38:40,651 --> 00:38:43,154
Yeah, and I mean,
it's weird for somebody
to send me
631
00:38:43,187 --> 00:38:45,523
an original typed,
typed or printed...
632
00:38:45,556 --> 00:38:47,258
I mean, it was the '80s,
so there were computers.
633
00:38:47,291 --> 00:38:50,561
I mean, this is it.
I mean, it feels like,
you know...
634
00:38:50,594 --> 00:38:54,965
It's a Xerox.
That's just a copy.
An exact copy.
635
00:38:54,999 --> 00:38:59,837
This looks like
a term paper.
636
00:38:59,870 --> 00:39:01,772
Yeah, right.
637
00:39:01,806 --> 00:39:06,043
So, I mean, it...
You know, that's supposedly
the original.
638
00:39:06,077 --> 00:39:08,946
So, I mean, I would like
to keep that, if possible,
639
00:39:08,979 --> 00:39:10,514
because I'm a collector
of documents.
640
00:39:10,548 --> 00:39:12,783
But that's
the supposed original
641
00:39:12,817 --> 00:39:15,619
that was overnighted to me
with some other material.
642
00:39:15,653 --> 00:39:18,889
Well, if you hold
onto to it for now,
643
00:39:18,923 --> 00:39:21,859
let's see where
the other end plays out.
644
00:39:21,892 --> 00:39:23,260
Cool.
645
00:39:23,294 --> 00:39:25,062
We may be asking you
for the original.
646
00:39:25,096 --> 00:39:28,199
Now, in the late '80s,
early '90s,
647
00:39:28,232 --> 00:39:30,034
there were a couple
of shows that came out.
648
00:39:30,067 --> 00:39:32,503
Unsolved Mysteries.
649
00:39:32,536 --> 00:39:37,007
I know the History Channel
has done some stuff,
Discovery Channel.
650
00:39:37,041 --> 00:39:40,311
And those tended
to generate more leads.
651
00:39:40,344 --> 00:39:44,048
And we would always end up
following up on those leads.
652
00:39:44,081 --> 00:39:47,518
We would run
their fingerprints
every year, nationwide.
653
00:39:47,551 --> 00:39:49,954
So if they were
under an alias,
654
00:39:49,987 --> 00:39:52,556
we could find out
if they had committed
any crimes.
655
00:39:52,590 --> 00:39:54,959
It would have been printed
by some police department.
656
00:39:54,992 --> 00:39:56,694
Same thing with Canada,
657
00:39:56,727 --> 00:40:01,465
who has a mutual relationship
with the US.
658
00:40:01,499 --> 00:40:03,033
You know,
none of that turned up.
659
00:40:03,067 --> 00:40:06,270
There was a lead
a year and a half ago
in Texas, right?
660
00:40:06,303 --> 00:40:08,072
With a guy
that looked like him,
we got something...
661
00:40:08,105 --> 00:40:09,473
Oh, really?
662
00:40:09,507 --> 00:40:12,443
The lead got sent to us.
We got hold
of his driver's license.
663
00:40:12,476 --> 00:40:14,078
It was after...
664
00:40:14,111 --> 00:40:17,281
There was a History Channel show
where we age-enhanced...
665
00:40:17,314 --> 00:40:19,850
Right. Did you guys do that?
I noticed it on the Internet.
666
00:40:19,884 --> 00:40:24,321
Yeah. And we went
and sent those out there,
667
00:40:24,355 --> 00:40:28,926
and somebody came back
and said, "Jeez, it looks
just like this old guy."
668
00:40:28,959 --> 00:40:31,262
So, you know,
we went and followed
the lead up.
669
00:40:31,295 --> 00:40:34,698
In Texas, I guess, you have to
have your fingerprints
or a thumb print
670
00:40:34,732 --> 00:40:36,434
on the driver's license.
671
00:40:36,467 --> 00:40:40,371
And we actually were able
to verify that it wasn't him.
672
00:40:40,404 --> 00:40:41,972
Right.
Based on his fingerprints.
673
00:40:44,575 --> 00:40:46,444
NURSE: Today is March 17th.
674
00:40:46,477 --> 00:40:50,214
John Leroy Kelly died
at 3:00 a.m. this date
675
00:40:50,247 --> 00:40:53,984
of AIDS-related pneumocystis
carinii pneumonia.
676
00:40:54,018 --> 00:40:56,120
He died quietly in his sleep.
677
00:40:59,256 --> 00:41:04,195
John received the last rights
of the Roman Catholic church
just after 11:00 p.m.
678
00:41:15,673 --> 00:41:18,442
So, I got some information
that we can go check out,
679
00:41:18,476 --> 00:41:20,578
a death certificate,
down the street,
680
00:41:20,611 --> 00:41:22,346
on John Leroy Kelly.
681
00:41:22,379 --> 00:41:23,914
If he died in this area,
682
00:41:23,948 --> 00:41:25,749
apparently,
it will be on record,
683
00:41:25,783 --> 00:41:27,318
and that's where
we're going next.
684
00:41:32,456 --> 00:41:34,124
NURSE: John was
a no-code patient
685
00:41:34,158 --> 00:41:37,094
so we did not attempt
to resuscitate.
686
00:41:37,127 --> 00:41:41,298
I am truly glad for John
that his long struggle is over.
687
00:41:41,332 --> 00:41:43,000
May he rest in peace.
688
00:41:44,969 --> 00:41:49,139
I basically narrowed it down
to about five hospices
in the area.
689
00:41:49,173 --> 00:41:52,643
From that, we're going to go
back to the hall of records
and find out
690
00:41:52,676 --> 00:41:53,844
if there's
a death certificate.
691
00:41:53,878 --> 00:41:55,880
But even without
a death certificate,
692
00:41:55,913 --> 00:41:58,282
we can get a lot
of great information now.
693
00:42:00,017 --> 00:42:02,887
NURSE: Sarah Lang
of Vancouver,
British Columbia,
694
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,723
called me on the phone
and asked if
she could come down
695
00:42:05,756 --> 00:42:07,658
and talk to me
about her brother.
696
00:42:07,691 --> 00:42:14,164
I said yes, if she could agree
to complete confidentiality
concerning my identity.
697
00:42:14,198 --> 00:42:18,602
She agreed and I met her
at the Downtown
Public Library.
698
00:42:18,636 --> 00:42:21,505
During our meeting,
she brought up
the Alcatraz Prison Escape
699
00:42:21,539 --> 00:42:26,243
and asked me what
her brother John had told me
about the Alcatraz incident.
700
00:42:26,277 --> 00:42:28,045
I gave her a copy
of everything
701
00:42:28,078 --> 00:42:30,314
and she stated
that it was the same story
702
00:42:30,347 --> 00:42:32,816
that John had told her
for years before.
703
00:42:32,850 --> 00:42:35,419
She stated that
she had heard
the same story
704
00:42:35,452 --> 00:42:37,488
over and over many times
from John
705
00:42:37,521 --> 00:42:39,423
and felt she almost
knew it by heart.
706
00:42:42,893 --> 00:42:44,595
That he and a friend
707
00:42:46,030 --> 00:42:48,465
helped the three convicts
to escape
708
00:42:48,499 --> 00:42:52,670
from Alcatraz Federal Prison
in San Francisco.
709
00:42:56,740 --> 00:43:00,477
They then killed
the three escaped convicts
710
00:43:02,012 --> 00:43:05,549
to keep all of
a large sum of money.
711
00:43:12,957 --> 00:43:15,859
KELLY: While we were
at my Uncle Donald's,
712
00:43:15,893 --> 00:43:18,262
we finally decided
that we would
get the convicts
713
00:43:18,295 --> 00:43:20,898
into the back of
Robert's pickup truck,
714
00:43:20,931 --> 00:43:22,733
drive them into the woods,
715
00:43:23,534 --> 00:43:25,669
and shoot them real quick
716
00:43:25,703 --> 00:43:27,204
and bury them.
717
00:43:29,173 --> 00:43:31,809
Robert picked a good spot
along the highway
718
00:43:31,842 --> 00:43:35,279
and we even dug a big hole
before we picked them up.
719
00:43:36,513 --> 00:43:41,719
Robert went somewhere
and got two .38 caliber pistols
720
00:43:41,752 --> 00:43:45,756
which he hid in a toolbox
under the driver's seat
of the truck.
721
00:44:07,344 --> 00:44:12,016
NURSE: I told her about
John making his confession
to the Catholic priest
722
00:44:12,049 --> 00:44:16,620
and that I felt it had helped
John's peace of mind
tremendously
723
00:44:16,654 --> 00:44:19,923
and I told her that
I believe John had
died in peace.
724
00:44:19,957 --> 00:44:21,725
I offered her these papers
725
00:44:21,759 --> 00:44:23,560
including John's statement,
726
00:44:23,594 --> 00:44:26,463
but she said
she did not want
to get involved.
727
00:44:26,497 --> 00:44:29,366
She told me
that it was true
about their Uncle Donald
728
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,036
being a driver for
big-time bank robbers.
729
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:34,171
She said that
back when he as doing this
730
00:44:34,204 --> 00:44:36,240
that it worked out
very well.
731
00:44:36,273 --> 00:44:38,242
She said that
there was a family rumor
732
00:44:38,275 --> 00:44:40,878
that Uncle Donald
had at one time
been sentenced
733
00:44:40,911 --> 00:44:44,381
to a lot of time
in Angola State Prison
in Louisiana,
734
00:44:44,415 --> 00:44:46,917
but that he escaped
after a very short time
735
00:44:46,950 --> 00:44:49,553
and fled
to the Pacific Northwest.
736
00:44:49,586 --> 00:44:52,489
According to her,
no one ever found
Uncle Donald
737
00:44:52,523 --> 00:44:54,725
and he died of an old age
in Seattle.
738
00:44:56,126 --> 00:44:57,895
One interesting thing
she said
739
00:44:57,928 --> 00:45:00,330
was that John had trouble
getting rid of some
of the money
740
00:45:00,364 --> 00:45:03,467
they took off the convicts
because it was so old.
741
00:45:03,500 --> 00:45:05,803
She said that
some of the bills
were very large,
742
00:45:05,836 --> 00:45:08,939
but were still legal tender
and could be spent.
743
00:45:08,972 --> 00:45:10,507
When she got up to leave
744
00:45:10,541 --> 00:45:14,745
I again tried
to give John's papers,
but she refused and left.
745
00:45:14,778 --> 00:45:18,115
I don't really know who
to give John's statements to.
746
00:45:18,148 --> 00:45:22,186
I have thought about
mailing it to a news agency
or the FBI,
747
00:45:22,219 --> 00:45:24,421
but I'm not really sure
what to do with it.
748
00:45:25,756 --> 00:45:28,092
Like John, I feel
the time had come
749
00:45:28,125 --> 00:45:31,428
for the truth about
the Alcatraz Prison Escape
to come out.
750
00:45:33,130 --> 00:45:34,865
I miss John at times.
751
00:45:36,333 --> 00:45:38,335
He probably was right
about being famous
752
00:45:38,368 --> 00:45:41,071
if everyone knew the truth
about what he did.
753
00:46:01,058 --> 00:46:03,861
This is a request
for the death certificate
754
00:46:05,596 --> 00:46:07,865
for John Leroy Kelly.
755
00:46:07,898 --> 00:46:11,068
I'm obviously very curious
if there's a death certificate
on file
756
00:46:11,101 --> 00:46:13,170
because this is another
piece of the puzzle
757
00:46:13,203 --> 00:46:15,773
that I'm trying
to put together.
758
00:47:05,689 --> 00:47:08,725
Typically, in an escape,
couple things happen.
759
00:47:08,759 --> 00:47:10,694
For example,
in the case of Henry Young,
760
00:47:10,727 --> 00:47:15,098
they made a movie
real loosely based on him
a few years ago,
761
00:47:15,132 --> 00:47:17,100
When he escaped
from Walla Walla State Prison,
762
00:47:17,134 --> 00:47:18,802
the first thing he did
was go home.
763
00:47:18,836 --> 00:47:21,471
One thing that has led,
764
00:47:21,505 --> 00:47:24,474
circumstantially, to our belief
that they probably
didn't make it,
765
00:47:24,508 --> 00:47:26,376
based on what we knew so far,
766
00:47:26,410 --> 00:47:30,881
was the fact that
there were no crimes later on
that were attributed to them.
767
00:47:30,914 --> 00:47:33,884
There was no...
Although family members
have talked to us
768
00:47:33,917 --> 00:47:35,352
and claimed
there were things going on,
769
00:47:35,385 --> 00:47:39,456
they're not gonna wanna
spill the beans,
as it were, on that.
770
00:47:39,489 --> 00:47:43,961
The typical escape
would leave a trail.
771
00:47:43,994 --> 00:47:45,829
And that's not to say
that there aren't exceptions,
772
00:47:45,863 --> 00:47:48,799
but, you know, to go home,
to rob another bank,
773
00:47:48,832 --> 00:47:52,469
to commit another crime,
do something to leave
a fingerprint somewhere
774
00:47:52,502 --> 00:47:54,171
is not at all uncommon.
775
00:47:54,204 --> 00:47:56,006
And it's been lacking that
over the years.
776
00:47:56,039 --> 00:47:57,407
Since it's been so many years
777
00:47:57,441 --> 00:48:00,377
and nothing credible so far
had shown up,
778
00:48:00,410 --> 00:48:05,482
that added to the likelihood
that our opinion,
or my opinion, I should say,
779
00:48:05,515 --> 00:48:07,050
that they didn't
survive the bay.
780
00:48:07,084 --> 00:48:10,754
It just added to that,
the fact that these guys
never surfaced
781
00:48:10,787 --> 00:48:13,757
and the fact that
they were never connected
to any crimes again.
782
00:48:13,790 --> 00:48:15,759
Um, not to say that...
783
00:48:15,792 --> 00:48:18,128
Well, people say,
"Well, if they were smart
they wouldn't do those things."
784
00:48:18,161 --> 00:48:19,763
Well, if they were smart,
785
00:48:19,796 --> 00:48:22,165
they probably wouldn't have
been doing what they
were doing, to begin with,
786
00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:23,634
is another way
to look at that.
Right.
787
00:48:23,667 --> 00:48:25,769
Because we always stuck
to the theory
788
00:48:25,802 --> 00:48:28,405
that if they had escaped
and got away,
789
00:48:28,438 --> 00:48:29,973
they would be
committing crimes,
790
00:48:30,007 --> 00:48:31,208
so they would
eventually get caught.
791
00:48:31,241 --> 00:48:33,710
The only thing they knew
to do was bank robbery.
792
00:48:33,744 --> 00:48:35,145
I mean, the were
career criminals.
793
00:48:35,178 --> 00:48:37,614
So, we knew that they...
794
00:48:37,648 --> 00:48:41,385
If they did get away,
they weren't in the US.
795
00:48:41,418 --> 00:48:44,121
ZIRILLI: Right.
And they probably
weren't in Canada
796
00:48:44,154 --> 00:48:46,490
because Canada
has the same type
797
00:48:46,523 --> 00:48:48,625
of law enforcement program
that we do
798
00:48:48,659 --> 00:48:51,061
and they eventually
would have got caught
doing something over there.
799
00:48:51,094 --> 00:48:56,266
So, that's why we really
looked at anything
internationally,
800
00:48:56,300 --> 00:48:58,902
and we weren't
really concerned
with the historical...
801
00:48:58,936 --> 00:49:00,971
We've had cases
like this before
802
00:49:01,004 --> 00:49:03,540
where somebody's actually
gone back, dug the bodies up
803
00:49:03,573 --> 00:49:05,309
and then spread the bones
some place.
804
00:49:05,342 --> 00:49:09,813
I mean, all we end up with
is fragments of bones in there.
805
00:49:09,846 --> 00:49:12,349
They're never going
to get up all of the bones.
806
00:49:12,382 --> 00:49:13,951
I mean, there's going to be...
807
00:49:13,984 --> 00:49:15,686
If there were bodies
buried in there
808
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,722
and somebody came back
to get the bodies up,
809
00:49:18,755 --> 00:49:21,591
there's going to be
something left in there,
okay?
810
00:49:21,625 --> 00:49:24,027
It's just impossible
to get everything
811
00:49:24,061 --> 00:49:27,364
once you put something
in the ground like that.
812
00:49:27,397 --> 00:49:32,769
ZIRILLI: What would be
the method of forensically
finding out?
813
00:49:32,803 --> 00:49:35,806
Are there dental records
or is there DNA of any kind?
814
00:49:35,839 --> 00:49:38,475
We'll have to make
that determination
815
00:49:38,508 --> 00:49:42,279
with whichever
state or local authority
816
00:49:42,312 --> 00:49:43,680
we will be dealing with.
817
00:49:43,714 --> 00:49:45,849
We do have records.
Yeah.
818
00:49:45,882 --> 00:49:47,884
I've got records of them.
819
00:49:47,918 --> 00:49:49,186
Dental record?
820
00:49:49,219 --> 00:49:53,890
Medical and dental records
from the Bureau of Prisons.
821
00:49:53,924 --> 00:49:55,158
We can use that.
822
00:49:55,192 --> 00:49:56,393
But we'll make determination...
823
00:49:56,426 --> 00:49:57,995
Of course, I know we're
ahead of ourselves.
824
00:49:58,028 --> 00:50:01,498
This is fluid. We're gonna have
to play a lot of this
by ear as we go.
825
00:50:07,571 --> 00:50:10,107
So, we just met
with Mike Earp
826
00:50:10,140 --> 00:50:12,676
and Art Roderick,
the US Marshals.
827
00:50:12,709 --> 00:50:16,513
We're caravaning right now
to meet with a local guy
who knows the area.
828
00:50:16,546 --> 00:50:18,115
We're leaving Seattle.
829
00:50:18,148 --> 00:50:20,684
It's about an hour
outside of Seattle.
830
00:50:20,717 --> 00:50:23,487
According to the statement,
831
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,389
it's gotta be
about a mile and a half.
832
00:50:25,422 --> 00:50:28,925
On the left hand side,
there used to be a dirt road.
833
00:50:28,959 --> 00:50:31,028
Apparently, in 1962,
834
00:50:31,061 --> 00:50:33,196
that dirt road was not
blocked by a guardrail,
835
00:50:33,230 --> 00:50:35,966
but now we're gonna have
to walk over the guardrail.
836
00:50:35,999 --> 00:50:38,335
From that point,
we go down the dirt road
837
00:50:38,368 --> 00:50:41,538
and apparently there's
going to be some big rocks
838
00:50:41,571 --> 00:50:44,941
that we'll look for
and some trees.
839
00:50:44,975 --> 00:50:47,377
On the rocks, as of 1993,
840
00:50:49,579 --> 00:50:53,417
there was paint
to mark the rocks.
841
00:50:53,450 --> 00:50:56,319
And then at one point
in the '80s,
842
00:50:57,454 --> 00:51:01,525
um, John, the guy
who gave the statement,
843
00:51:01,558 --> 00:51:04,061
actually nailed horseshoes
844
00:51:04,094 --> 00:51:06,696
into trees around the area
845
00:51:06,730 --> 00:51:10,767
and apparently buried a box
of horseshoes
846
00:51:10,801 --> 00:51:14,471
right over the bodies
where they were buried.
847
00:51:14,504 --> 00:51:17,541
So, underneath the horseshoes,
if we find them,
848
00:51:17,574 --> 00:51:22,879
there may be the bodies
of the Anglin brothers,
John and Clarence,
849
00:51:22,913 --> 00:51:25,215
and Frank Morris.
850
00:51:25,248 --> 00:51:29,319
So, the initial thing
we're looking for
is the landmarks.
851
00:51:29,352 --> 00:51:31,955
So, wish us luck.
852
00:51:37,994 --> 00:51:39,563
NURSE: Over the last weekend,
853
00:51:39,596 --> 00:51:42,299
me and my son took John
up to the spot
854
00:51:42,332 --> 00:51:45,802
where he says
the three convicts are buried.
855
00:51:45,836 --> 00:51:49,005
There were still some
splotches of yellow paint
on the big rocks
856
00:51:49,039 --> 00:51:51,174
just like John told me
there would be.
857
00:51:53,076 --> 00:51:55,846
We took four gallons
of red deck paint with us
858
00:51:55,879 --> 00:51:58,448
and my son made a big circle
and an "X"
859
00:51:58,482 --> 00:52:01,151
over where John says
he and his friend Robert
860
00:52:01,184 --> 00:52:03,987
buried the three convicts
in 1962.
861
00:52:15,098 --> 00:52:16,700
ZIRILLI:
His name's Al Davis.
862
00:52:16,733 --> 00:52:21,538
He's an old timer,
he's lived in this area
forever, for his whole life.
863
00:52:21,571 --> 00:52:24,941
He's at least
70 or 80 years old.
864
00:52:24,975 --> 00:52:27,210
Really funny, nice guy.
865
00:52:27,244 --> 00:52:31,715
He said, though, if you
go back even 10 years,
10, 20 years,
866
00:52:31,748 --> 00:52:34,017
everything's changed
about this location.
867
00:52:34,050 --> 00:52:35,352
He said, "Even for myself,
868
00:52:35,385 --> 00:52:38,522
"because that can describe
four or five roads
869
00:52:38,555 --> 00:52:40,757
"that aren't even there
in existence anymore.
870
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:45,195
"So it's just, it's going
to be really hard
for you to find
871
00:52:45,228 --> 00:52:46,696
"what you're looking for."
872
00:52:46,730 --> 00:52:50,267
He said that we're, like,
five miles off base.
873
00:52:50,300 --> 00:52:52,869
He said most likely that
we should go back up
874
00:52:52,903 --> 00:52:54,704
and turn to the right,
sort of the area
875
00:52:54,738 --> 00:52:56,773
near the lake where we went.
876
00:52:56,806 --> 00:52:59,242
And there's actually
another right turn
that kinda just...
877
00:52:59,276 --> 00:53:02,746
I let him read
the one paragraph
about the directions.
878
00:53:02,779 --> 00:53:04,881
He said, "You'd have
better luck in that area."
879
00:53:06,449 --> 00:53:09,753
But he just said there's
just four or five places
880
00:53:09,786 --> 00:53:11,888
in this area
that have changed
881
00:53:11,922 --> 00:53:14,457
and it's just going to
be hard to find
based on this.
882
00:53:14,491 --> 00:53:19,329
Somewhat vague...
It sounds like
vague directions to him
883
00:53:19,362 --> 00:53:21,031
because there's
too many options.
884
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:28,104
NURSE: You can no longer
turn off the highway
at that location.
885
00:53:28,138 --> 00:53:29,606
There is now a guardrail
886
00:53:29,639 --> 00:53:32,742
and you have to park
on the roadside
and walk from there.
887
00:53:36,713 --> 00:53:39,916
We were able to find
two of the horseshoes
nailed to the trees.
888
00:53:43,420 --> 00:53:47,057
Okay, so, we've good news
and bad news.
889
00:53:47,090 --> 00:53:49,793
The good news is
we met with a tracker
890
00:53:49,826 --> 00:53:51,962
who knows exactly the area
891
00:53:51,995 --> 00:53:55,932
and exactly the turnoff
where he thinks,
892
00:53:55,966 --> 00:53:58,535
you know, the statement
is pointing to.
893
00:53:58,568 --> 00:54:02,272
The bad news is that
he said it's a big area,
894
00:54:02,305 --> 00:54:04,741
it's going to be hard to find
895
00:54:04,774 --> 00:54:07,911
and that it might be snowing,
896
00:54:07,944 --> 00:54:10,313
so there might be
snow on the ground.
897
00:54:10,347 --> 00:54:12,315
So, anyways, we'll see.
898
00:55:02,332 --> 00:55:04,567
This must be the 30-foot.
899
00:55:04,601 --> 00:55:06,336
Yeah.
This is the closest.
900
00:55:07,470 --> 00:55:09,105
Can you pull
a truck up in here?
901
00:55:10,573 --> 00:55:13,543
We'll stand on the roof
and look at this mark
on the tree here.
902
00:55:15,712 --> 00:55:17,380
Pull yours.
903
00:55:17,414 --> 00:55:19,482
I can't...
Oh, okay.
904
00:55:29,259 --> 00:55:32,128
First it was yellow paint
and then it was
red deck paint.
905
00:55:32,162 --> 00:55:34,764
Does this look like
paint to you?
906
00:55:34,798 --> 00:55:36,166
It looks like
yellow paint.
907
00:55:36,199 --> 00:55:37,834
And does this look
like red deck paint?
908
00:55:37,867 --> 00:55:40,670
It sure does.
Holy shit!
909
00:55:40,704 --> 00:55:42,439
And does that look like
it could be knot
910
00:55:42,472 --> 00:55:44,708
looking like a horseshoe
right up there?
911
00:55:44,741 --> 00:55:46,910
[INDISTINCT CONVERSATION]
912
00:55:50,246 --> 00:55:52,349
Let's say
30 feet off the ground.
913
00:55:52,382 --> 00:55:55,352
I mean, that's totally
unnatural, is it not?
914
00:56:00,123 --> 00:56:01,858
I mean, it can be analyzed,
of course.
915
00:56:01,891 --> 00:56:04,794
But I think it's worth
bringing in a metal detector
in this area.
916
00:56:07,831 --> 00:56:09,566
Look at that.
917
00:56:14,437 --> 00:56:17,707
Well, sure it's rusty.
It came off of it right here.
918
00:56:21,077 --> 00:56:23,079
I mean,
that many rounds.
919
00:56:23,113 --> 00:56:26,082
You know,
they blasted them.
They blasted them.
920
00:56:36,192 --> 00:56:39,396
KELLY: On June 21st,
we started driving
towards Canada
921
00:56:39,429 --> 00:56:41,164
in the truck with the convicts.
922
00:56:56,212 --> 00:56:58,314
At a few minutes
past 5:00 p.m.,
923
00:56:58,348 --> 00:56:59,983
Robert hit me on the leg,
924
00:57:00,016 --> 00:57:02,085
which was a signal
we had arranged.
925
00:57:05,455 --> 00:57:07,824
He told them
we were stopping to pee.
926
00:57:11,294 --> 00:57:14,464
He had a made a point
over the last few days
927
00:57:14,497 --> 00:57:16,800
of complaining about
his weak kidneys.
928
00:57:18,735 --> 00:57:22,071
Less than 30 feet away,
the big hole
we had dug waited
929
00:57:24,674 --> 00:57:26,309
and two shovels.
930
00:57:29,712 --> 00:57:31,815
I heard him get
into the toolbox
931
00:57:31,848 --> 00:57:34,384
under the driver seat
for the pistol.
932
00:57:41,291 --> 00:57:44,727
And he handed me
one of the pistols
down by his side.
933
00:57:53,036 --> 00:57:54,971
We walked to the back
of the truck.
934
00:58:28,371 --> 00:58:30,373
Robert opened
the truck's tailgate.
935
00:58:35,411 --> 00:58:38,748
Frank Morris must've seen
the pistol in Robert's hand,
936
00:58:38,781 --> 00:58:42,752
because I heard Morris say,
"You sons of bitches,"
937
00:58:42,785 --> 00:58:44,821
but in almost the same instant,
938
00:58:44,854 --> 00:58:47,590
we were both shooting
into the back of the truck.
939
00:58:47,624 --> 00:58:49,158
[GUNS FIRING]
940
00:58:53,429 --> 00:58:56,633
I've never been able
to forget the way
they jumped around
941
00:58:56,666 --> 00:59:00,303
and the sound the bullets made
when they hit their bodies.
942
00:59:02,572 --> 00:59:05,008
It was the worse thing
that I did in my life.
943
00:59:16,953 --> 00:59:19,088
Robert reloaded his pistol
944
00:59:19,122 --> 00:59:22,125
and I pulled the convicts out
by their feet.
945
00:59:41,644 --> 00:59:45,081
John Anglin was
the last one I pulled out,
946
00:59:46,449 --> 00:59:48,318
and he was alive and talking
947
00:59:51,688 --> 00:59:54,324
even though he had
been hit several times
948
00:59:54,357 --> 00:59:56,926
and had to be
hurting very badly.
949
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:58,595
He begged not to die,
950
00:59:59,829 --> 01:00:03,566
but Robert shot him
three or four more times.
951
01:00:24,420 --> 01:00:26,089
[GUN FIRING]
952
01:00:38,835 --> 01:00:42,839
We dumped them into
the big hole we had dug,
one at a time.
953
01:00:42,872 --> 01:00:44,941
We threw our pistols
into the hole
954
01:00:44,974 --> 01:00:49,746
along with the bloody canvas
they had been lying on
in the back of the truck.
955
01:00:49,779 --> 01:00:55,284
We covered them up
and spread a bag of grass seed
all over the dug-up ground.
956
01:01:53,109 --> 01:01:55,912
ZIRILLI: Can you do it
this close?
957
01:01:55,945 --> 01:01:59,015
Of course, this is
more secluded than down there
with the houses.
958
01:01:59,048 --> 01:02:00,750
Yeah, and then in the '60s,
959
01:02:00,783 --> 01:02:02,952
there was probably not
as much traffic.
960
01:02:02,985 --> 01:02:04,721
Were all the horseshoes
on one tree?
961
01:02:04,754 --> 01:02:07,056
ZIRILLI:
No, there were four before
962
01:02:07,090 --> 01:02:10,026
in sort of a circle.
963
01:02:10,059 --> 01:02:13,496
And then when
they came back in the '90s,
there were only two left.
964
01:02:18,534 --> 01:02:21,170
I'm looking up at a tree,
and if you look closely,
965
01:02:21,204 --> 01:02:24,774
it looks like potentially where
a horseshoe could have been
at one point.
966
01:02:24,807 --> 01:02:26,676
Either the tree
could have grown around it
967
01:02:26,709 --> 01:02:29,979
or the tree could have
pushed it out of its bark.
968
01:02:33,116 --> 01:02:34,884
[INDISTINCT CONVERSATION]
969
01:02:37,186 --> 01:02:39,822
It's just the spot here
we're going to have to...
Yeah.
970
01:02:44,627 --> 01:02:47,096
ZIRILLI: They buried
a box of horseshoes...
971
01:02:47,130 --> 01:02:50,199
He came back in the '80s
and buried a box of horseshoes
972
01:02:50,233 --> 01:02:52,602
so that they could
find the spot.
973
01:02:53,636 --> 01:02:55,238
This is one potential site
974
01:02:55,271 --> 01:02:59,442
that's about 30 feet
off the road, off the 90.
975
01:02:59,475 --> 01:03:01,277
There's a guardrail
over there.
976
01:03:01,310 --> 01:03:05,214
There's also evidence
that could be a horseshoe
up on a tree.
977
01:03:05,248 --> 01:03:06,516
About 14 feet high.
978
01:03:09,118 --> 01:03:10,453
We'll see.
979
01:03:28,638 --> 01:03:31,107
It's not far.
980
01:03:31,140 --> 01:03:35,278
I think it's got
potential like crazy
with those paint chips
981
01:03:35,311 --> 01:03:39,682
and that little place
that could have been
a horseshoe at one time.
982
01:03:39,715 --> 01:03:41,117
I don't know.
983
01:03:43,719 --> 01:03:45,755
So we're calling it a day.
It's getting dark.
984
01:03:45,788 --> 01:03:49,759
We found one spot that
had a lot of potential with
985
01:03:49,792 --> 01:03:54,931
couple markings
and a horseshoe-shaped
indentation in a tree.
986
01:03:54,964 --> 01:03:57,200
So we're gonna
come back tomorrow
at the spot
987
01:03:57,233 --> 01:03:59,502
and see what else
we can find out.
988
01:04:03,406 --> 01:04:06,909
Yesterday, we were
a little discouraged
when we went to the location
989
01:04:06,943 --> 01:04:10,613
because the rocks
weren't quite as big
as we expected.
990
01:04:10,646 --> 01:04:14,917
And there were few things
about the statement that
Mike Earp had pointed out
991
01:04:14,951 --> 01:04:17,019
that troubled him
in some manner.
992
01:04:17,053 --> 01:04:20,456
I mean, most of the things
about the statement
turned out to be...
993
01:04:20,489 --> 01:04:23,292
Looked like they were
totally correct
and accurate.
994
01:04:23,326 --> 01:04:27,330
But some of
the questions he posed,
I gave it a little thought
995
01:04:27,363 --> 01:04:28,831
over the last 12 hours
996
01:04:28,865 --> 01:04:33,035
and this is my idea of
the answers maybe.
997
01:04:33,069 --> 01:04:34,570
One of the things that he said
998
01:04:34,604 --> 01:04:37,773
was that it was very unlikely
999
01:04:37,807 --> 01:04:42,745
that they would trust somebody
with 40 or 50,000 dollars,
1000
01:04:42,778 --> 01:04:44,480
this person Uncle Donald.
1001
01:04:44,513 --> 01:04:47,049
'Cause in the '60s
that was a ton of money.
1002
01:04:47,083 --> 01:04:48,551
Now, I thought about that
1003
01:04:48,584 --> 01:04:52,221
and number one, Frank Morris,
1004
01:04:52,255 --> 01:04:55,157
he was friends with
this Uncle Donald.
1005
01:04:55,191 --> 01:04:59,128
And Uncle Donald
was 78 years old
at the time.
1006
01:04:59,161 --> 01:05:01,297
So, I just don't see
1007
01:05:01,330 --> 01:05:04,700
that some 78-year-old guy
1008
01:05:04,734 --> 01:05:08,337
would necessarily
run off with the money
1009
01:05:08,371 --> 01:05:11,240
from a friend of his
at that age.
1010
01:05:11,274 --> 01:05:15,645
The other part about
it being a large, large
amount of money,
1011
01:05:15,678 --> 01:05:20,082
you know, for sort of like
two big thieves
to put together.
1012
01:05:20,116 --> 01:05:24,453
When you think about it,
there were supposed
to be five people.
1013
01:05:24,487 --> 01:05:27,390
Five convicts
escaping out of Alcatraz.
1014
01:05:27,423 --> 01:05:30,293
So, five people...
1015
01:05:30,326 --> 01:05:33,095
Let's say
40 or 50,000 dollars,
their family,
1016
01:05:33,129 --> 01:05:36,365
some of the money they got
in bank robberies.
1017
01:05:36,399 --> 01:05:38,501
That's only about
10,000 dollars a piece.
1018
01:05:38,534 --> 01:05:40,636
Approximately about
10, 12,000 dollars.
1019
01:05:40,670 --> 01:05:42,838
So, to start a new life
in Canada,
1020
01:05:42,872 --> 01:05:46,943
which was obviously the idea,
according to the statement,
1021
01:05:46,976 --> 01:05:51,080
10, 12,000 dollars a piece
split by five men
1022
01:05:51,113 --> 01:05:54,350
seems like a reasonable
amount of money
to put together,
1023
01:05:54,383 --> 01:05:57,153
especially if you've got
a loved one in jail.
1024
01:05:57,186 --> 01:05:58,921
Back to the location.
1025
01:05:58,955 --> 01:06:01,190
So, we went
to the location yesterday,
1026
01:06:01,223 --> 01:06:03,259
and, you know,
in our mind's eye,
1027
01:06:03,292 --> 01:06:07,430
we sort of maybe
thought these rocks
were gonna be bigger.
1028
01:06:07,463 --> 01:06:11,901
Um, we did find some
really interesting evidence.
1029
01:06:11,934 --> 01:06:18,207
We found a really cool-looking,
horseshoe-shaped indentation
in a tree.
1030
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:22,244
We also found
some paint scraps
in yellow and red,
1031
01:06:22,278 --> 01:06:25,748
which is, again,
we didn't find exactly
paint on the rocks.
1032
01:06:28,050 --> 01:06:31,487
But we found some evidence
that, you know,
is circumstantial
1033
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:33,622
and enough to follow up on.
1034
01:06:33,656 --> 01:06:35,458
So today
we're going to go back
1035
01:06:35,491 --> 01:06:39,528
and I'm not sure what else...
We'll ask the US Marshals
what else we're gonna do,
1036
01:06:39,562 --> 01:06:43,566
but we've identified
a really highly
potential site.
1037
01:07:10,292 --> 01:07:12,561
Okay, we're back
at the spot
1038
01:07:12,595 --> 01:07:14,630
and I just found
a few interesting things.
1039
01:07:17,967 --> 01:07:20,870
Okay, originally, they said
that they nailed
or he nailed
1040
01:07:20,903 --> 01:07:23,806
four horseshoes
into a tree.
1041
01:07:25,174 --> 01:07:26,842
Just bear with me.
1042
01:07:26,876 --> 01:07:28,577
Look at that nail. One.
1043
01:07:30,079 --> 01:07:31,814
See the nail?
1044
01:07:38,054 --> 01:07:40,156
And over here. Two.
1045
01:07:45,795 --> 01:07:47,296
A second nail.
1046
01:07:57,106 --> 01:07:58,741
Three.
1047
01:07:58,774 --> 01:08:00,810
So, we're looking
for horseshoes.
1048
01:08:00,843 --> 01:08:02,545
Now, you know,
when she came back,
1049
01:08:02,578 --> 01:08:04,013
apparently, there were
only two left,
1050
01:08:04,046 --> 01:08:06,148
but now there
are no horseshoes,
1051
01:08:06,182 --> 01:08:08,751
but look,
there are one, two,
1052
01:08:09,585 --> 01:08:11,754
three over there
and four nails.
1053
01:08:11,787 --> 01:08:13,956
And this is the area
that I said looks like
1054
01:08:13,989 --> 01:08:16,058
somebody maybe came back
at some point...
1055
01:08:16,092 --> 01:08:18,094
Just point the camera
right down there.
1056
01:08:18,127 --> 01:08:20,362
I'm not saying this is where
the hole was dug,
1057
01:08:20,396 --> 01:08:22,431
but maybe this is
where he came back
1058
01:08:22,465 --> 01:08:25,734
and dug this little ground up
to bury the horseshoes.
1059
01:08:25,768 --> 01:08:30,139
It's not like...
This area looks to me
a little unnatural to the rest.
1060
01:08:30,172 --> 01:08:32,274
It looks like something
was dug out
1061
01:08:32,308 --> 01:08:34,643
and it's all uneven here.
1062
01:08:34,677 --> 01:08:37,780
This feels like anywhere
could be the spot.
1063
01:08:37,813 --> 01:08:40,049
You know, this has got
a lot of potential.
1064
01:08:40,082 --> 01:08:44,386
There are four nails
in somewhat of a circle
in this spot
1065
01:08:44,420 --> 01:08:47,022
and it's exactly what
we're looking for.
1066
01:08:47,056 --> 01:08:49,125
Now, come over here
and look at these rocks.
1067
01:08:53,028 --> 01:08:55,664
Yellow and red paint.
1068
01:09:04,306 --> 01:09:06,976
I'm hoping that
we'll come back
and survey this whole area
1069
01:09:07,009 --> 01:09:10,679
because this ground, this area,
and those markings
1070
01:09:10,713 --> 01:09:12,148
look good to me.
1071
01:09:18,854 --> 01:09:21,724
ZIRILLI: You know,
George Clooney is gonna play
in the movie version, right?
1072
01:09:21,757 --> 01:09:23,692
[CHUCKLING]
1073
01:09:25,661 --> 01:09:27,429
Pretty good.
1074
01:09:27,463 --> 01:09:30,599
Some research on it,
I gotta find out...
1075
01:09:30,633 --> 01:09:32,768
I have to get
the GPS coordinates
1076
01:09:32,801 --> 01:09:34,870
in that particular location.
1077
01:09:34,904 --> 01:09:39,475
I will probably do that today.
1078
01:09:39,508 --> 01:09:45,114
Um, but if I know the name
of the individual
you got the statement from,
1079
01:09:46,815 --> 01:09:48,450
if we could just do
a background...
1080
01:09:48,484 --> 01:09:50,119
We can run a background
on him right now.
1081
01:09:50,152 --> 01:09:52,621
We could call...
and find out
1082
01:09:52,655 --> 01:09:56,325
if he is connected to...
What his mother's name is.
1083
01:09:56,358 --> 01:09:58,127
Where she's from,
where he's been.
1084
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,497
He's got to be some...
I mean, he's got to...
1085
01:10:01,530 --> 01:10:05,501
ZIRILLI:
Yeah, he's real paranoid
about his identity.
1086
01:10:08,737 --> 01:10:10,806
RODERICK: You know,
we're at that point.
1087
01:10:10,839 --> 01:10:13,042
I mean, we don't even know
if she's alive.
1088
01:10:13,075 --> 01:10:14,543
ZIRILLI: Right, right.
1089
01:10:14,577 --> 01:10:18,214
RODERICK: If you're telling me
this guy sounds like
he's in his 50s,
1090
01:10:18,247 --> 01:10:20,382
and this is his mother,
1091
01:10:20,416 --> 01:10:22,785
then she's gotta be at least
in her 70s or 80s.
1092
01:10:24,053 --> 01:10:25,487
ZIRILLI: Yeah.
1093
01:10:27,656 --> 01:10:30,793
You know? So...
Right. I got you.
1094
01:10:30,826 --> 01:10:32,094
Okay.
1095
01:10:32,127 --> 01:10:35,798
They gave their statements,
let's be honest about it.
1096
01:10:35,831 --> 01:10:39,702
They are the ones providing
statements of reference
1097
01:10:39,735 --> 01:10:42,638
of this guy confessing to
homicide and whatnot.
1098
01:10:42,671 --> 01:10:44,173
Yeah.
1099
01:10:44,206 --> 01:10:47,142
But there are
law enforcement officials
1100
01:10:47,176 --> 01:10:49,979
that could be
investigating that, yeah.
1101
01:10:50,012 --> 01:10:52,214
Their names are gonna
have to be known,
1102
01:10:52,248 --> 01:10:54,250
they're gonna be questioned,
they're gonna be interviewed,
1103
01:10:54,283 --> 01:10:57,620
they're gonna be possibly
compelled to testify
1104
01:10:57,653 --> 01:10:59,521
for the accuracy
of the statement.
1105
01:10:59,555 --> 01:11:01,190
Right.
There's no doubt.
1106
01:11:01,223 --> 01:11:03,259
I won't mislead you on that.
1107
01:11:03,292 --> 01:11:06,295
I mean, as far as
we're concerned, the public's
not gonna be informed.
1108
01:11:06,328 --> 01:11:07,763
No, we're not
gonna release it.
1109
01:11:07,796 --> 01:11:09,698
[CELL PHONE RINGING]
But the law enforcement, yeah.
1110
01:11:09,732 --> 01:11:11,233
Right.
This is Mike.
1111
01:12:07,656 --> 01:12:10,993
O'ROSS: Who was this man,
John Leroy Kelly?
1112
01:12:11,026 --> 01:12:14,396
A phantom?
A charlatan? A phony?
1113
01:12:15,297 --> 01:12:17,599
Or was he telling the truth?
1114
01:12:18,567 --> 01:12:20,402
Did he and his partner
take part
1115
01:12:20,436 --> 01:12:25,574
in one of the most well-planned
and coordinated escapes
in history.
1116
01:12:25,607 --> 01:12:28,077
An escape that could
only have been successful
1117
01:12:28,110 --> 01:12:32,348
with help from inside
and outside the walls
of the Rock.
1118
01:12:32,381 --> 01:12:34,283
What is irrefutable
1119
01:12:34,316 --> 01:12:36,652
is that the three men
made it out of their cells
1120
01:12:36,685 --> 01:12:39,121
and into the water
that night.
1121
01:12:39,154 --> 01:12:43,025
It is only speculated
that they drowned at sea.
1122
01:12:43,058 --> 01:12:45,494
Was the culmination
of their complex plan
1123
01:12:45,527 --> 01:12:47,329
merely to swim across the bay,
1124
01:12:47,363 --> 01:12:49,798
risking hypothermia
and drowning,
1125
01:12:49,832 --> 01:12:54,303
only to come ashore
in bustling downtown
San Francisco?
1126
01:12:54,336 --> 01:12:58,674
Or did they have something
more sophisticated in mind?
1127
01:13:00,409 --> 01:13:04,313
For now, their fate
still remains a mystery.
1128
01:13:04,346 --> 01:13:06,749
Or does it?
92011
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