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1
00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:04,520
If my boss knew that my brother was
a convicted armed robber...
2
00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,440
She's mad.
Bonkers.
3
00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,160
Is Gill coming?
What, Godzilla?
4
00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,279
What?
5
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,119
Don't. Dom, don't do that
6
00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:15,880
Look, it doesn't matter.
7
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,000
I'm talking to your senior partner
and your ass is grass.
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00:00:32,457 --> 00:00:50,432
Subtitles by MemoryOnSmells
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9
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,480
Night.
See you later.
10
00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,839
Whoa! Sorry boss.
Rachel! Give us a second, Sam.
11
00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,279
Has Janet gone? Yeah. She had
a GCSE meeting at school with Elise.
12
00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,959
Are you doing anything?
Just dropping this lot of
disclosure schedules off.
13
00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:28,039
You got anything on over the next
few days
14
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,119
you can't wriggle out of?
Court appearances, anything? No.
15
00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,519
You fancy a bit of overtime?
Yeah.
16
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,679
Get that done, go home, pack a bag.
I'll pick you up in an hour.
17
00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,439
Yeah. Why, where we going?
Cambridge. Ravenhill Prison.
18
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,319
Then Bristol. North Avon!
It will all become clear.
19
00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:44,639
Sammy? Yep, so bins out tomorrow
night.
20
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,880
Yes, I know you know that.
I'm telling you
21
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,880
because I'm not going to be there.
22
00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,680
Dom?
23
00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,400
Dom, I'm going away
for a couple of days...
24
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,560
Shit.
Who the hell's that?
25
00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,640
I thought you said no-one
else'd be here.
26
00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:27,640
Fuck this.
27
00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,800
Are you going to introduce me
to your friend? No we we were...
28
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:34,800
I want my Ј20 back.
29
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,879
Married. Are we?
I don't think so, pal.
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00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,360
Can you remember where the door is,
or shall I show you?
31
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,360
You're hurting me!
32
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:49,959
I've got your registration number,
arsehole,
33
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,080
so don't think I can't find out where
you live
34
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,360
or every single thing there is
to know about you.
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00:02:54,361 --> 00:02:56,360
Fetch.
36
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,319
I don't even know where to start,
Dom. Have you done this before? Here?
37
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,399
No. Two things. I'm a police officer
and you've just used my flat
38
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,799
to sell sex in. Do you understand
that you can't do that?
39
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,040
And number two... what are you doing?
40
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,040
What you doing?
41
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,759
Do you want me to go?
No, Dom!
44
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,160
Right. OK. Look.
45
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,560
I'm... I'm going away for a couple
of days. So I...
46
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,079
Shit.
47
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,440
I don't know what you had to do, Dom,
in prison,
48
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,440
to get by but this is the deal,
right?
49
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,079
That is in the past.
You're in my world now.
50
00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,640
If you're short for money
then... then you talk to me.
51
00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,640
Before you even dream about doing
anything like that ever again, right?
52
00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,279
Right. I'm going to be away,
so, God, I don't know...
53
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,079
Can you promise me...
54
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,320
Promise me that you will try
55
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,320
to behave like you've got the sense
you were born with. Or I'll...
56
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,680
I will ask you to leave, Dom.
Because I'll be left with no choice.
57
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,600
I just wanted to pay you back for
your kitchen.
58
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,880
Have you had a HIV test?
59
00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,880
Does the name Jeremy Leach
ring any bells?
60
00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:52,880
Jeremy Leach?
61
00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:57,919
He raped and strangled three women
in the West Country,
62
00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:59,959
and one in Reading. Ten years ago?
63
00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:04,679
13 years ago. Sexually assaulted six
women, probably twice that many.
64
00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,439
All across the south.
But yeah,
65
00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,399
the court convicted him on the four
he raped and strangled.
66
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,640
So what are we...
We're going to visit him.
67
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,640
Those are for you.
68
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,039
Leach?
Wasn't he a total control freak?
69
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,199
Control freak, psychopath,
narcissist.
70
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,879
It's all in there. When
he was caught, how he was caught,
71
00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,719
psychological reports.
So why are we visiting him?
72
00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,519
Three weeks ago, just outside
Bristol a woman turned up dead.
73
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,999
Yasmin Heaney.
She'd been raped and strangled.
74
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,079
Whoever did it used an MO almost
identical to Jeremy Leach's.
75
00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,159
The details of which, for obvious
reasons,
76
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:47,919
were never released to the press.
77
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,159
For instance... he used cable ties to
fasten his victim's thumbs together.
78
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,039
It's all in there, even the victim
profile fits.
79
00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,799
White, 32-year-old professional.
But it can't be him?
80
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,719
It's unlikely. He's been tucked up
at Her Majesty's pleasure
81
00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:03,479
for the last thirteen years.
82
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,680
He's not looking at parole till
2036, if ever.
83
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,680
So it's a copycat thing?
Yeah.
84
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,560
Didn't he get convicted
over a single thumb print?
85
00:06:11,561 --> 00:06:13,999
Not even that. It was a partial
thumb print.
86
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,079
But enough to get his DNA.
87
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,719
Did you catch him? It went across
four forces, including the Met,
88
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,759
but yes, when I worked for the NPIA.
89
00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,119
Crime Faculty, as was.
We got invited in.
90
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,439
They were desperate,
they had nothing.
91
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,479
He was clever. Nowhere near as
clever
92
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,479
as he thought he was, of course.
93
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,519
They never are.
So why are...
94
00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,039
He says he has information about
Yasmin's death.
95
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,319
Because I went in from
the Crime Faculty,
96
00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,439
Leach doesn't know I was involved
in the original investigation.
97
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,039
My name will mean nothing to him.
But why do you need me?
98
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,719
I squared it with the boss. Can you
read in a car without being sick?
99
00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,680
I'd make a start.
We'll hit the hotel by eleven,
100
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,120
then we're seeing him at
nine o'clock sharp tomorrow morning.
101
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,160
I still don't know why you need me.
I'm a Chief Inspector.
102
00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,960
I haven't done an interview in ten
years! Don't worry, I'll be there.
103
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,040
Hiya.
What's happening with our Dom?
104
00:07:19,041 --> 00:07:21,239
Nothing. Why?
What is happening with our Dom?
105
00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,039
He's saying you've chucked him out.
I didn't chuck him out.
106
00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,319
Hey, I'm not blaming you, Rachel.
107
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,359
I haven't chucked him out.
108
00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:33,199
Right, well I can't put him up
cos Tony won't have it.
109
00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,240
Alison. I haven't chucked him out.
110
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,600
We just had a bit of an argument,
111
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,919
Look, is he there now?
No, he's gone.
112
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,639
Gone where? I don't know. I don't
think he knew himself.
113
00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:45,679
Has he been behaving?
114
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,919
He's not been drinking, or...
115
00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,799
No. No. Not at all. It's one of the
conditions of his license,
116
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:56,000
not drinking, he's really stuck
to that, it's just...
117
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,000
What?
118
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,280
Oh, look, Alison,
I'm away for a couple of days.
119
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,080
I think I've frightened him.
120
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,079
I told him he needed to get himself
tested for HIV.
121
00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:12,799
Why?
122
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,679
He's hang on, Sammy, he's what?
He's done what? The whore...
123
00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:21,359
Let's get this straight, the whore
has kicked him, your dad, out? Why?
124
00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:26,399
Because in prison. I think he might
of... like sold his assets.
125
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,279
Oh, no way!
He can't keep his pants up, can he?
126
00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,599
Right, well, there you go, eh?
Taste of her own medicine. Bitch.
127
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,839
Sold his...
Can you work it out Alison?
128
00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,079
He's bringing an overnight bag
with him where?
129
00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,160
I will. I'll call him
but he's not homeless.
130
00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,120
No. No. No, Sammy.
That is not happening.
131
00:08:42,121 --> 00:08:43,919
He is not sleeping at our house.
132
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,239
He's got a key to my flat,
so he's not homeless.
133
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,760
Yeah, I know he's your dad, but you
tell him to ring me,
134
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:50,678
I will deal with it, because he is
not...
135
00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,520
Yeah. I'll ring him.
I'll ring him now.
136
00:08:52,521 --> 00:08:55,159
No, Sammy, not even on the settee.
I'm serious.
137
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,880
I am not being mean, Sammy. Sammy?
138
00:08:57,880 --> 00:08:59,880
OK. Bye.
139
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,839
Dom? It's Rachel.
Dave. Gill.
140
00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,639
Look, our Alison's just rung me.
You need to give me a ring.
141
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,399
Don't worry about what I said.
142
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,480
If you wouldn't mind being
so good and kind.
143
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,400
Just get yourself back round
to my flat.
144
00:09:17,401 --> 00:09:19,160
At your earliest convenience.
145
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,800
We can talk about this properly
when I get back. Right?
146
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,520
We'll sort things out. I promise.
And will you ring me?
147
00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,559
How come Leach even knows about
the similarities to his murders?
148
00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:44,079
A local journalist made the
connection. Yesterday.
149
00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:45,839
Who knows how, he's a journalist.
150
00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,919
First person he's on the phone
to is Leach's solicitor.
151
00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,239
That's when the shit hit the fan.
North Avon are pulling together
152
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,239
an SIO support group which we'll be
part of later tomorrow
153
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,519
with some of the biggest names
in the country.
154
00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,639
SCAS, Detectives, forensic
scientists.
155
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:04,479
At the risk of sounding a bit thick,
why's this such a big deal?
156
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,879
Because if someone's out there
using Leach's exact MO,
157
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:09,639
it throws doubt on his conviction.
158
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,879
It suggests it was never him in the
first place,
159
00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,239
that the real killer is still out
there which we know to be rubbish,
160
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,279
but... there's a lot of people who
think Leach's conviction
161
00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,159
is the biggest miscarriage
of justice in criminal history.
162
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,519
Journalists, peers,
the tea and tiffin brigade.
163
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,080
Sadly, however, they're not without
influence. If they can raise doubt
164
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,920
and grounds for yet another appeal,
165
00:10:28,921 --> 00:10:31,920
it's not beyond the realms of
possibility Leach could walk.
166
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,040
So no pressure then.
167
00:10:47,798 --> 00:10:49,837
DCI Murray?
168
00:10:49,838 --> 00:10:52,318
'Ello 'ello.
DC Bennett, North Avon.
169
00:10:52,318 --> 00:10:55,478
This is DC Bailey.
Rachel. Ed.
170
00:12:08,478 --> 00:12:10,518
Mr Leach?
Yes, hello.
171
00:12:10,518 --> 00:12:13,918
I'm DC Bailey, this is DC Bennett.
We're here at your request.
172
00:12:15,318 --> 00:12:18,517
Before we start I must tell you that
this meeting is being recorded.
173
00:12:18,518 --> 00:12:20,357
Good.
174
00:12:20,358 --> 00:12:24,317
I must tell you that you're not
under arrest and you don't have
to say anything to us,
175
00:12:24,318 --> 00:12:27,117
but anything you do say may be used
in evidence. I know that.
176
00:12:27,118 --> 00:12:30,437
I know that you've been advised that
you can have a solicitor present,
177
00:12:30,438 --> 00:12:32,637
but you've indicated that
you don't want one.
178
00:12:32,638 --> 00:12:34,677
Is that still the case?
Yes.
179
00:12:34,678 --> 00:12:36,717
Could I ask why that is, Mr Leach?
180
00:12:36,718 --> 00:12:38,838
I would've thought given your
situation
181
00:12:38,838 --> 00:12:40,718
that that would be advisable.
182
00:12:44,238 --> 00:12:46,278
Is that a Manchester accent?
183
00:12:46,278 --> 00:12:49,078
What would you like to talk to us
about Mr Leach?
184
00:12:52,438 --> 00:12:55,877
I don't know how much you know
about me, my situation.
185
00:12:55,878 --> 00:12:59,518
I'm assisting the investigation into
the death of Yasmin Heaney.
186
00:12:59,518 --> 00:13:01,956
You contacted the incident room
at Bristol saying
187
00:13:01,957 --> 00:13:04,398
you had some information
regarding that incident.
188
00:13:04,399 --> 00:13:06,398
I didn't...
189
00:13:10,438 --> 00:13:14,598
I didn't want my solicitor here
because he has a son.
190
00:13:14,598 --> 00:13:17,478
Alastair Jackson.
191
00:13:19,518 --> 00:13:22,398
And it's becoming increasingly
apparent to me for some time
192
00:13:22,398 --> 00:13:26,558
and now I'm utterly convinced that
he is the man you're looking for.
193
00:13:28,278 --> 00:13:31,078
And I don't just mean
for this latest attack, either.
194
00:13:32,598 --> 00:13:36,557
Desmond Jackson approached me after
I'd been convicted,
195
00:13:36,558 --> 00:13:39,357
several lawyers did,
knowing that I'd been poorly served
196
00:13:39,358 --> 00:13:41,877
by the man who'd originally
represented me in court,
197
00:13:41,878 --> 00:13:45,637
knowing that I had been the victim
of a miscarriage of justice.
198
00:13:45,638 --> 00:13:50,678
I know you don't believe that,
but I took him on, Desmond Jackson,
199
00:13:50,678 --> 00:13:55,278
because he seemed the most keen
as well as being the most able.
200
00:13:57,398 --> 00:13:59,197
I now have reason to believe
201
00:13:59,198 --> 00:14:02,197
that he had ulterior motives in
approaching me,
202
00:14:02,198 --> 00:14:07,878
motives that were to do with
contriving to keep me inside prison,
203
00:14:07,878 --> 00:14:10,478
once I'd been blamed for what his
son had done.
204
00:14:12,638 --> 00:14:16,397
And what grounds have you got for
making this allegation, Mr Leach?
205
00:14:16,398 --> 00:14:18,797
After I was convicted,
206
00:14:18,798 --> 00:14:22,477
Alastair Jackson appeared to become
obsessed with me.
207
00:14:22,478 --> 00:14:25,797
He wrote to me incessantly, he even
requested to visit me,
208
00:14:25,798 --> 00:14:27,918
which I allowed him do... twice.
209
00:14:27,918 --> 00:14:32,358
At the time, you see,
I regarded him as a supporter.
210
00:14:33,598 --> 00:14:38,597
But looking back I realise now that
it wasn't me he was obsessed with.
211
00:14:38,598 --> 00:14:43,278
He was obsessed with the women
I was accused of having murdered.
212
00:14:43,278 --> 00:14:46,638
He certainly knew far more about
them than I ever did.
213
00:14:48,438 --> 00:14:52,637
I now believe from what he said
214
00:14:52,638 --> 00:14:55,158
that he knew them.
215
00:14:55,158 --> 00:14:57,678
All of them, personally.
216
00:14:58,958 --> 00:15:01,358
Well, don't you think that's
significant?
217
00:15:02,638 --> 00:15:04,478
Isn't it true that most murder
victims
218
00:15:04,479 --> 00:15:06,478
are killed by people they know?
219
00:15:07,558 --> 00:15:09,396
I'd never met this man until
sometime
220
00:15:09,397 --> 00:15:11,238
after his father offered to help me,
221
00:15:11,239 --> 00:15:14,918
and yet it would appear that he knew
personally the four women
222
00:15:14,918 --> 00:15:17,438
I was convicted of having murdered.
I didn't.
223
00:15:18,478 --> 00:15:21,077
So you're saying that
your solicitor...
224
00:15:21,078 --> 00:15:27,158
Desmond Jackson... is fully aware
of what his son may have done
225
00:15:27,158 --> 00:15:29,358
and is helping to cover it up?
Yes.
226
00:15:32,718 --> 00:15:34,798
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
227
00:15:34,798 --> 00:15:37,238
Can you prove any of the things that
you're saying?
228
00:15:37,239 --> 00:15:42,638
Well, I imagine I could, yes,
if I wasn't stuck in here.
229
00:15:46,798 --> 00:15:50,158
He knew Yasmin Heaney, too.
230
00:15:50,158 --> 00:15:54,918
He mentioned her a number of times
in letters to me.
231
00:15:56,838 --> 00:15:58,838
Would you like to see?
Yeah.
232
00:16:05,918 --> 00:16:07,918
I've made copies.
233
00:16:08,678 --> 00:16:10,717
OK.
234
00:16:10,718 --> 00:16:16,478
When did you realise this... about
Alastair Jackson?
235
00:16:16,478 --> 00:16:18,478
When I heard about Yasmin Heaney.
236
00:16:21,238 --> 00:16:23,238
It'd been staring me in the face.
237
00:16:24,598 --> 00:16:26,598
For years...
238
00:16:27,558 --> 00:16:29,558
and then the penny dropped.
239
00:16:30,518 --> 00:16:33,558
Is there anything else you'd like
to say to me, Mr Leach?
240
00:16:35,118 --> 00:16:37,118
I shouldn't be in here.
241
00:16:39,798 --> 00:16:42,797
We have picked Alastair Jackson up,
by the way. Twice.
242
00:16:42,798 --> 00:16:45,997
Yeah. I read that
in the information pack.
243
00:16:45,998 --> 00:16:48,037
He did know Yasmin Heaney.
244
00:16:48,038 --> 00:16:51,077
He spent rather too much time
in the library where she works.
245
00:16:51,078 --> 00:16:54,637
You making your way down to Bristol
now, ma'am? That's the plan!
246
00:16:54,638 --> 00:16:56,677
Are you all right?
247
00:16:56,678 --> 00:16:58,637
I hate these places.
248
00:16:58,638 --> 00:17:02,397
I appreciate that not all will have
had chance to read the handouts in
any depth,
249
00:17:02,398 --> 00:17:05,317
ladies and gentlemen, so whilst our
victim Yasmin
250
00:17:05,318 --> 00:17:08,997
is a main line of inquiry,
the nature of the attack,
251
00:17:08,998 --> 00:17:12,198
the fact that it resembles the Leach
murders of 13 years ago,
252
00:17:12,198 --> 00:17:15,918
have lead us to focus primarily on
two main lines of investigation.
253
00:17:16,358 --> 00:17:18,877
People who had access to
confidential information
254
00:17:18,878 --> 00:17:20,957
during the original investigation
255
00:17:20,958 --> 00:17:23,477
that's the lawyers, police officers,
jury
256
00:17:23,478 --> 00:17:27,157
and people who had access to Leach
when he was inside prison.
257
00:17:27,158 --> 00:17:30,157
Of the people we've identified as
being most interesting,
258
00:17:30,158 --> 00:17:34,197
perhaps the most significant at this
moment is Alastair Jackson.
259
00:17:34,198 --> 00:17:39,437
Now, Jackson is unemployed,
misfit, obsessed with Leach.
260
00:17:39,438 --> 00:17:41,677
An apparent supporter of Leach.
261
00:17:41,678 --> 00:17:44,597
He visited him on two occasions
inside prison.
262
00:17:44,598 --> 00:17:47,877
His father, oddly enough,
is Leach's solicitor,
263
00:17:47,878 --> 00:17:50,957
so Jackson may have had had access
to confidential information
264
00:17:50,958 --> 00:17:52,717
right there in his parents home
265
00:17:52,718 --> 00:17:54,797
at the time of the original
investigation.
266
00:17:54,798 --> 00:17:59,238
His alibi at the time that Yasmin
went missing turned out
267
00:17:59,238 --> 00:18:03,278
to be an elaborate pack of lies...
But still no arrest.
268
00:18:04,358 --> 00:18:06,717
DCI Murray came across from the
Crime Faculty
269
00:18:06,718 --> 00:18:08,997
to help us with the original
investigation
270
00:18:08,998 --> 00:18:12,037
and she has in fact spoken
to Leach this very morning
271
00:18:12,038 --> 00:18:14,717
at his request inside Ravenhill
Prison.
272
00:18:14,718 --> 00:18:17,757
He himself is pointing the finger
at Jackson.
273
00:18:17,758 --> 00:18:21,277
And not just for Yasmin's murder
either. Leach is suggesting
274
00:18:21,278 --> 00:18:23,197
that Jackson was responsible
275
00:18:23,198 --> 00:18:25,757
for the murders he was sent down for
13 years ago.
276
00:18:25,758 --> 00:18:27,517
I hope you don't mind me saying,
277
00:18:27,518 --> 00:18:30,717
but if you're seriously considering
Alastair Jackson for Yasmin,
278
00:18:30,718 --> 00:18:32,757
we're opening a can of worms,
279
00:18:32,758 --> 00:18:35,237
and one which Leach will exploit to
the hilt,
280
00:18:35,238 --> 00:18:38,798
and frankly, in my book, the fact
that Leach is pointing the finger
281
00:18:38,798 --> 00:18:41,558
at Jackson is practically grounds
to rule him out.
282
00:18:54,638 --> 00:18:56,677
Isn't there like a really
screaming flaw
283
00:18:56,678 --> 00:18:58,758
in the whole basis of
the investigation?
284
00:18:58,758 --> 00:19:00,758
Is there?
285
00:19:01,718 --> 00:19:04,517
What?
Well, their two lines of inquiry
286
00:19:04,518 --> 00:19:09,637
and the way that you're talking
are based entirely on the assumption
287
00:19:09,638 --> 00:19:12,117
that Leach is guilty
of the original crimes.
288
00:19:12,118 --> 00:19:14,518
Thank you. It's not an assumption.
289
00:19:14,518 --> 00:19:16,518
He is guilty.
290
00:19:17,318 --> 00:19:19,357
Yeah. But...
291
00:19:19,358 --> 00:19:21,397
what if he isn't?
But, he is.
292
00:19:21,398 --> 00:19:24,717
Yeah, but if he isn't,
then the whole thing's skewed.
293
00:19:24,718 --> 00:19:28,037
Rachel Bailey. Gill Murray.
We've got reservations.
294
00:19:28,038 --> 00:19:30,637
Yeah, but he is. So it isn't.
295
00:19:30,638 --> 00:19:32,678
Fill these forms out, please.
296
00:19:32,678 --> 00:19:36,558
I feel like... you're not hearing
what I'm saying.
297
00:19:37,198 --> 00:19:41,797
You've read your ringbinders.
It was Leach's DNA at the scene.
298
00:19:41,798 --> 00:19:46,877
His thumb print on the pendant of
Catherine Maloney's necklace,
299
00:19:46,878 --> 00:19:49,078
pressed so hard it was embedded
into her skin
300
00:19:49,078 --> 00:19:50,878
and at the time he couldn't account
301
00:19:50,879 --> 00:19:53,717
for how else his dabs could have got
on it, even if he came up
302
00:19:53,718 --> 00:19:56,277
with some convoluted rubbish about
it afterwards.
303
00:19:56,278 --> 00:20:01,958
Yeah, but... His delivery schedule
put him at or near all the murders.
304
00:20:01,958 --> 00:20:04,918
We even had a witness who ID'd him
in the area of one of them.
305
00:20:06,478 --> 00:20:08,237
All right, forget it.
306
00:20:08,238 --> 00:20:11,158
Do you think he's a bit too good
looking to be a killer? Mm?
307
00:20:11,158 --> 00:20:12,958
Did you ever seen a photo
of Ted Bundy?
308
00:20:12,959 --> 00:20:14,998
Think he was a bit too good looking
as well
309
00:20:14,998 --> 00:20:16,878
to have raped and murdered 34 women?
310
00:20:16,879 --> 00:20:20,877
I didn't believe him, but I didn't
not believe him either.
311
00:20:20,878 --> 00:20:24,277
Rachel! Are you serious?
You'd let that man out?
312
00:20:24,278 --> 00:20:26,837
No! No.
313
00:20:26,838 --> 00:20:29,437
Well, yeah, if he's not guilty.
314
00:20:29,438 --> 00:20:31,477
Oh, God.
What?
315
00:20:31,478 --> 00:20:33,357
Bandits at two. Julian McAndrew...
316
00:20:33,358 --> 00:20:35,597
writes for The Guardian
and The New Statesman,
317
00:20:35,598 --> 00:20:38,718
one of Leach's staunchest
dickhead supporters. That was quick.
318
00:20:38,718 --> 00:20:40,558
It's volatile, I told you.
Don't look.
319
00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:43,837
I can almost understand them not
getting it, but you?
320
00:20:43,838 --> 00:20:47,677
You used to work in the sex crimes
unit. You know rape isn't about sex.
321
00:20:47,678 --> 00:20:51,237
It's about power and control
and humiliation. He's a sick fuck,
322
00:20:51,238 --> 00:20:54,677
and he can hide it better than your
average herbert because he's clever,
323
00:20:54,678 --> 00:20:58,317
clever enough to make someone like
you doubt forensic evidence.
324
00:20:58,318 --> 00:21:03,157
Room 703 and Room 522.
Enjoy your stay, ladies. Thank you.
325
00:21:03,158 --> 00:21:06,678
All we have to do, well, all
North Avon have to do is find out
326
00:21:06,678 --> 00:21:08,638
who killed Yasmin,
and prove it fast,
327
00:21:08,639 --> 00:21:12,597
before people like McAndrew manage
to turn it into something it isn't.
328
00:21:12,598 --> 00:21:14,757
We know who killed the others,
Rachel,
329
00:21:14,758 --> 00:21:17,757
it was that nice man you spoke
to this morning at HMP Ravenhill.
330
00:21:17,758 --> 00:21:19,517
Well, all the same. I think we...
331
00:21:19,518 --> 00:21:22,278
I think they ought to look very
closely at Jackson again.
332
00:21:22,278 --> 00:21:26,118
I agree with you cos I think Leach
is trying to set Jackson up,
which...
333
00:21:27,758 --> 00:21:30,877
means he's involved. It's not
just someone who's copying him.
334
00:21:30,878 --> 00:21:32,838
It's someone he's conspired with,
335
00:21:32,838 --> 00:21:35,598
someone he's consciously inculcated
with his...
336
00:21:36,438 --> 00:21:39,878
And he's arrogant enough to think he
can point us in the wrong direction.
337
00:21:39,878 --> 00:21:44,718
Stick your bag in your room, back
here in five minutes, we're going
to the incident room.
338
00:21:52,158 --> 00:21:54,197
Ed!
339
00:21:54,198 --> 00:21:56,638
Hello, ma'am.
Where's Mr Wallis?
340
00:21:56,638 --> 00:21:58,638
He's driven over to Abbots Leigh.
341
00:22:00,358 --> 00:22:02,718
Another girl's turned up. Same.
342
00:22:04,038 --> 00:22:06,038
Cable ties.
343
00:22:13,858 --> 00:22:15,617
Yeah. It makes sense.
344
00:22:15,618 --> 00:22:18,937
I mean, it was always a possibility
of course that Leach was behind
345
00:22:18,938 --> 00:22:22,617
the whole thing, yeah but... does it
actually change the investigation?
346
00:22:22,618 --> 00:22:25,938
If we accept that he's pulling the
strings? No, of course it doesn't,
347
00:22:25,938 --> 00:22:28,298
but again it points the finger
away from Jackson,
348
00:22:28,299 --> 00:22:30,377
given that he was so keen to
implicate him.
349
00:22:30,378 --> 00:22:33,737
Look, Gill. I don't want it to be
Jackson any more than you do.
350
00:22:33,738 --> 00:22:37,497
I know what kind of unhelpful frenzy
this could set off in the media.
351
00:22:37,498 --> 00:22:39,617
But we have got to keep
an open mind.
352
00:22:39,618 --> 00:22:43,097
Yeah. Course. But this is someone
who is inside with him.
353
00:22:43,098 --> 00:22:45,937
This is not a visitor,
certainly not Jackson.
354
00:22:45,938 --> 00:22:47,977
This is someone not unlike himself.
355
00:22:47,978 --> 00:22:50,457
This is someone who is capable
of doing that.
356
00:22:50,458 --> 00:22:54,497
Even a copycat killing, you don't
go from nought to 90 in 10 seconds.
357
00:22:54,498 --> 00:22:56,337
Jackson's got no criminal record.
358
00:22:56,338 --> 00:22:59,257
You and I both know that whoever did
this has got previous.
359
00:22:59,258 --> 00:23:02,658
Jackson hasn't even got a speeding
ticket cos he doesn't drive!
360
00:23:02,658 --> 00:23:04,978
So how's he got that body out here?
361
00:23:05,818 --> 00:23:07,818
You're absolutely right.
362
00:23:10,618 --> 00:23:12,377
So what haven't I done, Gill?
363
00:23:12,378 --> 00:23:15,297
Could I ask how you're
prioritising interviewing
364
00:23:15,298 --> 00:23:17,937
and eliminating the people Leach
has been inside with?
365
00:23:17,938 --> 00:23:20,057
I mean, prisoners not wardens and
visitors.
366
00:23:20,058 --> 00:23:22,657
Yeah, well, initially we're looking
at people
367
00:23:22,658 --> 00:23:24,657
who he's close to
in the last five years,
368
00:23:24,658 --> 00:23:27,537
people he spent time with who were
released in the last year.
369
00:23:27,538 --> 00:23:30,577
You should be prioritising
your sexually-motivated killers.
370
00:23:30,578 --> 00:23:35,257
Going back the whole 13 years,
however brief their exposure to him.
Well, that was discussed, but...
371
00:23:35,258 --> 00:23:38,058
I hope you don't mind, but I rang
the clinical psychologist
372
00:23:38,058 --> 00:23:40,018
I work with in Manchester...
Martin Hines.
373
00:23:40,019 --> 00:23:42,897
He says this could be someone Leach
met in the toilets
374
00:23:42,898 --> 00:23:45,258
for five minutes
once a week ten years ago.
375
00:23:45,258 --> 00:23:47,698
He'll have avoided being noticed
with this person
376
00:23:47,699 --> 00:23:49,817
because he's got too much
in common with him.
377
00:23:49,818 --> 00:23:52,137
He's persistently maintained his
innocence,
378
00:23:52,138 --> 00:23:54,697
so publicly this person would be
anathema to him.
379
00:23:54,698 --> 00:23:58,097
Privately though, this is someone
he'll have identified
380
00:23:58,098 --> 00:24:01,937
really quickly, then cultivated,
then avoided being seen with.
381
00:24:01,938 --> 00:24:04,497
He'll have promised him something,
God knows what,
382
00:24:04,498 --> 00:24:07,417
a spree together
if ever he helps him get out,
383
00:24:07,418 --> 00:24:10,337
not money, that wouldn't motivate
this sort of sick bugger.
384
00:24:10,338 --> 00:24:12,297
And he's so controlled, Leach,
385
00:24:12,298 --> 00:24:15,257
this could be someone who was
released three or four years ago,
386
00:24:15,258 --> 00:24:18,177
waiting for Leach to give him the
nod at just the right moment...
387
00:24:18,178 --> 00:24:21,937
With exactly the right victim. Leach
knew that Jackson knew Yasmin Heaney.
388
00:24:21,938 --> 00:24:25,257
He mentioned her in the letters that
he wrote to Leach, Jackson did,
389
00:24:25,258 --> 00:24:27,297
and she fitted the victim profile.
390
00:24:27,298 --> 00:24:30,057
A couple of the lads did a
comprehensive list of everybody
391
00:24:30,058 --> 00:24:33,377
that Leach was exposed
to inside prison going back
the whole 13 years.
392
00:24:33,378 --> 00:24:36,657
Do you want to have look at it,
suggest a new strategy? Sure.
393
00:24:36,658 --> 00:24:38,697
Have you identified her?
394
00:24:38,698 --> 00:24:41,577
There was a 30-year-old woman
reported missing
395
00:24:41,578 --> 00:24:44,218
in Bristol last week...
Jodie Winterbourne.
396
00:24:44,218 --> 00:24:48,538
30, five foot eight,
short dark hair.
397
00:24:50,098 --> 00:24:52,098
She's ticking a lot of boxes.
398
00:24:55,378 --> 00:24:57,417
Dark brown hair, five foot eight.
399
00:24:57,418 --> 00:24:59,297
What about it?
400
00:24:59,298 --> 00:25:02,417
I fit the victim profile, that's why
you asked me to interview him.
401
00:25:02,418 --> 00:25:06,057
Yeah. I thought he'd fall for you
though, not the other way round.
402
00:25:06,058 --> 00:25:09,937
That's unethical. Sue me.
It didn't occur to me in fact.
403
00:25:09,938 --> 00:25:12,097
You were the first Tier 3
I bumped into.
404
00:25:12,098 --> 00:25:14,377
I asked where Janet was,
if you remember.
405
00:25:14,378 --> 00:25:16,417
So is this what you used to do?
406
00:25:16,418 --> 00:25:18,857
Drop into other forces,
tell 'em what to do?
407
00:25:18,858 --> 00:25:21,617
You don't tell people what to do.
You advise them.
408
00:25:21,618 --> 00:25:23,857
I advised on eight jobs
in one week once.
409
00:25:23,858 --> 00:25:28,138
What, murders? Yep. Still, it's
swings and roundabouts, isn't it?
410
00:25:28,138 --> 00:25:31,138
If I hadn't given it up I'd never
have met you and Kevin.
411
00:25:39,818 --> 00:25:42,657
So he's been in four prisons,
had 58 cell moves.
412
00:25:42,658 --> 00:25:45,097
That's a total of 3,426 inmates
413
00:25:45,098 --> 00:25:48,817
he's potentially come into contact
with over 13 years.
414
00:25:48,818 --> 00:25:52,737
Let's start with a list of those
convicted of murder and of rape.
415
00:25:52,738 --> 00:25:54,777
Thank you.
OK.
416
00:25:54,778 --> 00:25:57,017
Then a list of those just convicted
of murder,
417
00:25:57,018 --> 00:26:00,057
cos how many times have we had
someone who's raped and murdered,
418
00:26:00,058 --> 00:26:02,897
but the CPS only push on the
murder charge? Tell me about it.
419
00:26:02,898 --> 00:26:06,057
Then, third... a list of those
convicted of just rape.
420
00:26:06,058 --> 00:26:09,818
Cool. Yep. Ma'am, is it all right
if I... make a call?
421
00:26:09,818 --> 00:26:11,818
Yeah. Course.
422
00:26:15,458 --> 00:26:17,778
Dom?
Hiya.
423
00:26:17,778 --> 00:26:20,378
Where are you?
Your house.
424
00:26:21,218 --> 00:26:24,658
Where have you been?
Nowhere just here.
425
00:26:25,738 --> 00:26:28,698
Me and Alison have both been trying
to get hold of you.
426
00:26:28,698 --> 00:26:30,698
I know, I'm sorry.
427
00:26:32,378 --> 00:26:34,378
You all right?
428
00:26:35,938 --> 00:26:37,978
Yep.
429
00:26:37,978 --> 00:26:39,978
I've been worried about you.
430
00:26:41,698 --> 00:26:43,737
Sorry.
431
00:26:43,738 --> 00:26:45,777
Are you eating properly?
432
00:26:45,778 --> 00:26:47,818
Yep.
433
00:26:47,818 --> 00:26:49,818
What've you had today?
434
00:26:50,378 --> 00:26:52,378
Toast.
435
00:26:55,498 --> 00:26:57,498
Listen, Dom...
436
00:26:59,498 --> 00:27:01,538
I love you.
437
00:27:01,538 --> 00:27:04,298
I don't want you to be embarrassed
about what's happened.
438
00:27:05,978 --> 00:27:09,018
I just want you to move on and get
your life back together.
439
00:27:10,098 --> 00:27:12,137
Yeah.
440
00:27:12,138 --> 00:27:15,217
Some of the most horrendous, violent
murders
441
00:27:15,218 --> 00:27:17,698
I've ever seen have involved gay men
442
00:27:17,698 --> 00:27:21,218
with other men in exactly that
situation like you were in.
443
00:27:23,378 --> 00:27:25,378
I'm sorry if you think...
444
00:27:27,498 --> 00:27:30,418
Look, I wasn't over-reacting.
Believe me, I wasn't.
445
00:27:32,578 --> 00:27:34,618
OK.
446
00:27:34,618 --> 00:27:37,018
We'll work everything out, all right?
447
00:27:38,898 --> 00:27:40,898
We will, I promise.
448
00:27:42,538 --> 00:27:44,538
I want you to buy some fresh fruit
and veg
449
00:27:44,538 --> 00:27:46,338
with that money I left you, right?
450
00:27:47,938 --> 00:27:51,258
Dom?
Yep. Yep.
451
00:27:52,218 --> 00:27:55,658
All right I've got to go, but I'll
be back soon. Soon as I can.
452
00:27:56,938 --> 00:27:58,938
Yep.
453
00:28:00,298 --> 00:28:02,578
I'll see you.
See you.
454
00:28:19,738 --> 00:28:22,897
42 killers also convicted of rape,
now released.
455
00:28:22,898 --> 00:28:26,737
Most of them are elderly, past it.
12 under the age of 60.
456
00:28:26,738 --> 00:28:30,137
The youngest is 38.
We need the crime scene photos
457
00:28:30,138 --> 00:28:33,257
of the murders that each of those 12
were originally convicted of.
458
00:28:33,258 --> 00:28:35,817
Yep.
And we need to compare them... Ed?
459
00:28:35,818 --> 00:28:39,377
Listening. With the crime scenes
from the present two murders...
460
00:28:39,378 --> 00:28:42,057
Yasmin's and this latest one Jodie
if it is Jodie...
461
00:28:42,058 --> 00:28:45,617
Yep... starting with those who now
live geographically closest
462
00:28:45,618 --> 00:28:48,777
because every one of these twisted
sods should be out on a license.
463
00:28:48,778 --> 00:28:53,497
They'll have a parole officer
to report to, so chances are it's
not someone who's in Edinburgh. Yep.
464
00:28:53,498 --> 00:28:56,497
There's another thing I want you to
do. I want you to compare
465
00:28:56,498 --> 00:28:59,777
the photos of Yasmin's murder and
Jodie's murder with each other
466
00:28:59,778 --> 00:29:02,858
and then compare those with the four
Leach was convicted of.
467
00:29:02,858 --> 00:29:05,258
And this time I want you to look at
the differences
468
00:29:05,259 --> 00:29:07,057
as well as the similarities.
469
00:29:07,058 --> 00:29:09,777
I think they've focused
on the similarities too much.
470
00:29:09,778 --> 00:29:12,697
I want you to look at what this new
bloke's brought to the party
471
00:29:12,698 --> 00:29:14,778
that's nothing to do
with Leach's MO.
472
00:29:14,778 --> 00:29:17,258
Something all of his own from his
previous offences
473
00:29:17,259 --> 00:29:21,578
that's seeped through, something
he's probably not aware of himself.
Right.
474
00:29:53,058 --> 00:29:54,858
You've got four men
in your force area
475
00:29:54,859 --> 00:29:56,977
who could be the person we're
looking for.
476
00:29:56,978 --> 00:30:00,617
Three of them are registered with
their probation officers here
in Bristol,
477
00:30:00,618 --> 00:30:03,937
but there's another one, a fella
called Philip Martin Hibbert...
478
00:30:03,938 --> 00:30:07,177
Er, who's registered at an address in
Yeovil.
479
00:30:07,178 --> 00:30:10,937
He murdered two women 15 years ago,
raped 'em as well,
480
00:30:10,938 --> 00:30:14,177
but he was never charged with that.
He was released 18 months since.
481
00:30:14,178 --> 00:30:16,337
The other three are John James
Wilkes,
482
00:30:16,338 --> 00:30:18,537
registered at an address
in St Paul's,
483
00:30:18,538 --> 00:30:21,857
sexually assaulted three women in
Lincolnshire, none of whom died.
484
00:30:21,858 --> 00:30:24,457
But one of whom the police believed
he'd left for dead,
485
00:30:24,458 --> 00:30:27,017
so it was an attempted murder
rather than a murder.
486
00:30:27,018 --> 00:30:30,057
He was released four years ago,
originally sent down in 1997.
487
00:30:30,058 --> 00:30:34,337
Hassan Abuzein, registered an
address Knowle West, sent down 1995,
488
00:30:34,338 --> 00:30:37,177
raped and murdered his niece in
Southall, London.
489
00:30:37,178 --> 00:30:39,457
Released from Ravenhill
six months ago.
490
00:30:39,458 --> 00:30:42,617
Ashley Robert Boyall,
ex-army, registered address Easton,
491
00:30:42,618 --> 00:30:44,417
released two-and-a-half years ago.
492
00:30:44,418 --> 00:30:46,657
Served 15 years for murdering
two sex workers.
493
00:30:46,658 --> 00:30:48,617
That was in... Kettering.
494
00:30:48,618 --> 00:30:50,377
We can widen the net obviously
495
00:30:50,378 --> 00:30:52,617
if this doesn't give us what we're
looking for.
496
00:30:52,618 --> 00:30:54,737
But I asked Rachel
to look at the differences
497
00:30:54,738 --> 00:30:57,617
between Leach's original crime
scenes and the present ones
498
00:30:57,618 --> 00:31:00,377
to see if there was any seepage,
things that didn't fit in
499
00:31:00,378 --> 00:31:03,257
with Leach, but which did correspond
to the MO of these men.
500
00:31:03,258 --> 00:31:05,537
We think this one, the first one,
Hibbert,
501
00:31:05,538 --> 00:31:07,577
could be the man you're looking for.
502
00:31:07,578 --> 00:31:12,018
Show him. Well, that's Yasmin Heaney
and that's Jodie, last night, yeah?
503
00:31:12,018 --> 00:31:15,898
That's Heather Price and that's Jane
Reid, Hibbert's victims.
504
00:31:21,218 --> 00:31:23,377
He dragged them all there
by their arms.
505
00:31:23,378 --> 00:31:26,297
Which suggests they were already
dead when he took 'em there.
506
00:31:26,298 --> 00:31:28,978
Leach didn't do that, he killed
his victims at the scene.
507
00:31:28,978 --> 00:31:31,338
There are a few more details
pointing at Hibbert,
508
00:31:31,339 --> 00:31:34,018
- which we can go through if you like.
- Sorry.
509
00:31:34,018 --> 00:31:37,658
Hello. Rick Wallis. Yep.
510
00:31:39,618 --> 00:31:42,658
OK, thank you.
Thank you. Bye now. Bye.
511
00:31:42,658 --> 00:31:44,658
That was the lab.
512
00:31:47,218 --> 00:31:50,098
Alastair Jackson's DNA on a
cigarette butt we found
513
00:31:50,098 --> 00:31:52,098
at last night's crime scene.
514
00:31:56,047 --> 00:31:59,086
I'm just asking before you race in
and make an arrest which,
515
00:31:59,087 --> 00:32:02,007
if you believe that's the right
thing to do, that's your call.
516
00:32:02,007 --> 00:32:03,767
But I'm asking you to consider
this...
517
00:32:03,768 --> 00:32:06,966
we've been working on the theory
that Leach is setting Jackson up,
518
00:32:06,967 --> 00:32:10,086
working with an accomplice,
who is capable of rape and murder.
519
00:32:10,087 --> 00:32:14,646
I'm pretty certain that same person
would be more than capable of
planting a fag butt too.
520
00:32:14,647 --> 00:32:18,286
I suggest that someone in Jackson's
orbit has watched him smoke a fag
521
00:32:18,287 --> 00:32:20,526
then picked it up when he's stubbed
it out.
522
00:32:20,527 --> 00:32:22,566
Who does he hang around with?
523
00:32:22,567 --> 00:32:28,086
Jackson? No-one. I told you,
he's an oddity, he's a loner.
524
00:32:28,087 --> 00:32:30,926
Someone, anyone.
Where does he go, what does he do?
525
00:32:30,927 --> 00:32:34,166
We know he liked going in the
library where Yasmin worked.
526
00:32:34,167 --> 00:32:37,566
Well, the only thing was the man who
wasn't there.
527
00:32:37,567 --> 00:32:39,606
Who?
The man who doesn't exist.
528
00:32:39,607 --> 00:32:42,286
Who?
Dunno. He didn't exist.
529
00:32:42,287 --> 00:32:46,247
Yeah. Jackson's alibi. He said that
when Yasmin was being attacked,
530
00:32:46,247 --> 00:32:48,167
he was with some fella called
Tim Smith
531
00:32:48,168 --> 00:32:51,006
who he said worked for Burton's
builders' supplies
532
00:32:51,007 --> 00:32:53,726
on St Bude's Road, and who lived in
a flat in Frome,
533
00:32:53,727 --> 00:32:57,126
and who he said he got very drunk
with on the night in question.
534
00:32:57,127 --> 00:33:00,966
So drunk in fact, that he could
remember almost nothing
the next day.
535
00:33:00,967 --> 00:33:03,806
We had it checked out.
We checked it out thoroughly,
536
00:33:03,807 --> 00:33:06,366
I mean we checked every Tim Smith
in our force area,
537
00:33:06,367 --> 00:33:08,966
and in the surrounding
four force areas, and nothing.
538
00:33:08,967 --> 00:33:11,926
So where did Jackson go to with this
Tim Smith to get drunk then?
539
00:33:11,927 --> 00:33:14,046
He said they drank at home,
Jackson's home.
540
00:33:14,047 --> 00:33:17,326
There were no witnesses so no-one's
seen or heard of this Tim Smith.
541
00:33:17,327 --> 00:33:23,167
He did invent it, so it makes you
wonder why would you make something
up if you've got nothing to hide?
542
00:33:23,167 --> 00:33:25,007
But you don't think he was off his
face.
543
00:33:25,008 --> 00:33:27,127
The whole thing is a crap attempt
at an alibi?
544
00:33:27,127 --> 00:33:28,885
That's what we were left with, yeah.
545
00:33:28,886 --> 00:33:31,327
What else did he say about the man
who doesn't exist?
546
00:33:31,328 --> 00:33:33,766
How recently had he got to know him?
Recent.
547
00:33:33,767 --> 00:33:37,846
Well, what if Tim Smith does exist?
Only he's not called Tim Smith.
548
00:33:37,847 --> 00:33:40,806
And he sat with Jackson, let him
drink himself stupid
549
00:33:40,807 --> 00:33:44,086
and... left him rat-arsed,
550
00:33:44,087 --> 00:33:47,206
incapable, alone, and then he went
off and committed the murder.
551
00:33:47,207 --> 00:33:50,447
So how about sticking Hibbert in a
pre-arrest vim's ID parade
552
00:33:50,447 --> 00:33:53,687
and seeing if Jackson recognises
Hibbert but as Tim Smith.
553
00:33:55,687 --> 00:33:58,407
Is it all right if I call you
Alastair, Mr Jackson?
554
00:34:00,207 --> 00:34:03,287
You can call me what you like.
You probably will anyway.
555
00:34:03,287 --> 00:34:05,207
We just wanted to have a little bit
556
00:34:05,208 --> 00:34:07,247
of a talk with you about your
friend.
557
00:34:07,247 --> 00:34:09,967
The one you told us about...
Tim Smith.
558
00:34:11,007 --> 00:34:13,047
Have you seen him at all recently?
559
00:34:13,047 --> 00:34:15,047
No.
560
00:34:17,207 --> 00:34:19,486
What we were wondering,
Alastair, is...
561
00:34:19,487 --> 00:34:22,766
do you think if we showed you some
photographs
562
00:34:22,767 --> 00:34:25,007
that you might be able
to recognise him?
563
00:34:25,007 --> 00:34:27,007
Yes, I imagine so.
564
00:34:30,047 --> 00:34:32,086
Why? Have you found him?
565
00:34:32,087 --> 00:34:34,126
We think we might be getting close.
566
00:34:34,127 --> 00:34:38,206
OK, I'm just going to ask you
a few questions.
567
00:34:38,207 --> 00:34:40,326
First question might seem a bit odd
568
00:34:40,327 --> 00:34:43,086
but I will explain to you
at the end why I'm asking.
569
00:34:43,087 --> 00:34:48,607
You told us that you and Mr Smith
went back to your house
570
00:34:48,607 --> 00:34:53,687
and had a few drinks. I thought you
didn't believe me. About Tim Smith.
571
00:34:55,207 --> 00:34:57,847
You said he stayed a while,
chatting.
572
00:34:59,567 --> 00:35:01,926
Yes. He did.
573
00:35:01,927 --> 00:35:05,126
Now, I know you told us
you don't remember much
574
00:35:05,127 --> 00:35:07,727
about what happened later.
575
00:35:07,727 --> 00:35:12,807
But if we were to come round to
your house with you...
576
00:35:14,167 --> 00:35:16,927
do you think you might be able
to point to anything
577
00:35:16,927 --> 00:35:19,167
he might have touched
while he was there?
578
00:35:20,487 --> 00:35:23,327
He went through some of my CDs.
Is that any good?
579
00:35:25,447 --> 00:35:28,006
Yes, I think that would be spot on.
580
00:35:28,007 --> 00:35:30,006
You see if we can get his
fingerprints...
581
00:35:30,007 --> 00:35:31,766
In fact the glass he drank out of
582
00:35:31,767 --> 00:35:34,126
is probably still on the floor
somewhere.
583
00:35:34,127 --> 00:35:36,167
Nice.
584
00:35:36,167 --> 00:35:38,887
And are you anywhere nearer
catching the killer?
585
00:35:40,287 --> 00:35:45,087
Because you know what's being said,
don't you? In the press.
586
00:35:46,407 --> 00:35:49,166
That whoever is murdering these
women
587
00:35:49,167 --> 00:35:52,006
could've been the killer 13 years
ago.
588
00:35:52,007 --> 00:35:54,206
My father and I have been saying
for years
589
00:35:54,207 --> 00:35:56,286
that Jeremy Leach
is an innocent man.
590
00:35:56,287 --> 00:35:58,887
And he's been talking
so highly of you, pal.
591
00:35:58,887 --> 00:36:01,687
Would you like to come this way
please, Mr Jackson?
592
00:36:04,927 --> 00:36:07,327
Hello. Rick Wallis.
593
00:36:07,327 --> 00:36:09,727
Yep. He's identified Him.
594
00:36:11,647 --> 00:36:14,447
Jackson's identified Hibbert!
Let's pick him up!
595
00:36:15,767 --> 00:36:18,967
Well done. You stick with me kid,
I'll get you into a fight.
596
00:36:32,447 --> 00:36:34,447
Yeah, hold on!
597
00:36:39,367 --> 00:36:41,367
Fuck.
598
00:36:42,207 --> 00:36:44,647
Hello.
I fell asleep.
599
00:36:44,647 --> 00:36:46,967
You did right. Can I come in?
600
00:36:48,367 --> 00:36:51,327
Er... yeah, I was just packing.
601
00:36:53,607 --> 00:36:57,447
I've just had a phone call.
It's bad news.
602
00:36:58,607 --> 00:37:00,607
Our Dom.
Who's Dom?
603
00:37:01,807 --> 00:37:03,847
No, not Dom.
604
00:37:03,847 --> 00:37:06,687
I had a phone call from the CPS
in Manchester.
605
00:37:08,167 --> 00:37:11,967
They're dropping the attempted
murder charge against Nick Savage.
606
00:37:13,167 --> 00:37:15,487
I know. I know. It's...
607
00:37:15,487 --> 00:37:18,407
Unbelievable doesn't even start
to cover it.
608
00:37:19,767 --> 00:37:22,247
Well, so what are they charging him
with? Nothing.
609
00:37:22,248 --> 00:37:24,966
They're saying there's no evidence.
610
00:37:24,967 --> 00:37:28,126
They're saying legally
there isn't a case.
611
00:37:28,127 --> 00:37:31,086
So he's gonna walk? Well, he'll
never work as a barrister again
612
00:37:31,087 --> 00:37:33,286
because of his relationship
with that juror,
613
00:37:33,287 --> 00:37:36,126
and I'm assuming his marriage is
stuffed, but yes,
614
00:37:36,127 --> 00:37:38,726
that's the upshot at the minute.
He knows where I live.
615
00:37:38,727 --> 00:37:41,727
I'd be very surprised if he tried
anything like that again.
616
00:37:41,727 --> 00:37:44,047
He's got keys to my flat.
Change the locks.
617
00:37:44,927 --> 00:37:46,967
Are you all right?
618
00:37:46,967 --> 00:37:48,967
Stupid question.
619
00:37:51,247 --> 00:37:53,247
Do you want the less bad news?
620
00:37:54,847 --> 00:37:57,886
I don't know. Do I?
621
00:37:57,887 --> 00:38:02,206
They picked Hibbert up.
Two hours ago. They found his phone,
622
00:38:02,207 --> 00:38:05,326
they found a few other things that
could link him to Leach.
623
00:38:05,327 --> 00:38:10,126
Anyway, he's confessed, he's
confessing. He's talking right now,
624
00:38:10,127 --> 00:38:13,246
mostly about Leach about how Leach
coached him,
625
00:38:13,247 --> 00:38:15,086
the things he told him he'd done.
626
00:38:15,087 --> 00:38:18,206
The point is. Rick Wallis wants us
to talk to Leach again
627
00:38:18,207 --> 00:38:21,566
to put it to him that Hibbert's
making these allegations.
628
00:38:21,567 --> 00:38:24,286
They've only got us for another 24
hours. I said we would.
629
00:38:24,287 --> 00:38:26,047
What do you think?
630
00:38:26,047 --> 00:38:28,047
Yeah.
631
00:38:29,887 --> 00:38:31,927
Dom's my brother, by the way.
632
00:38:31,927 --> 00:38:35,247
He was at my birthday thing.
He probably didn't speak to you.
633
00:38:38,007 --> 00:38:40,767
I was thinking about that pig...
Savage.
634
00:38:42,087 --> 00:38:44,166
You wouldn't really want endless
details
635
00:38:44,167 --> 00:38:47,286
about your private life dragged
through the court, would you?
636
00:38:47,287 --> 00:38:50,247
Cos you know damned well that's
what'd happen,
637
00:38:50,247 --> 00:38:53,007
if the CPS had pressed charges
against him.
638
00:38:53,807 --> 00:38:58,087
You know what I really can't get
over is that I trusted him.
639
00:38:59,327 --> 00:39:02,487
I loved him. I wanted to spend
the rest of my life with him.
640
00:39:02,487 --> 00:39:07,287
Yeah. Well. Some people are very
plausible, aren't they?
641
00:39:08,527 --> 00:39:11,407
Yeah but how do you know?
How can you see through 'em?
642
00:39:11,407 --> 00:39:13,887
Like this Leach bastard.
643
00:39:15,527 --> 00:39:18,487
I did, I fell for it.
You can't always.
644
00:39:19,967 --> 00:39:21,967
Look at the bugger I married.
645
00:39:24,127 --> 00:39:27,126
It's not just instinct.
It's experience.
646
00:39:27,127 --> 00:39:31,566
I think a large part of instinct
is experience.
647
00:39:31,567 --> 00:39:33,686
So, you know,
648
00:39:33,687 --> 00:39:37,166
I don't think we should give up on
your rosy future just yet.
649
00:39:37,167 --> 00:39:39,926
Well, I sometimes think I'm shit
at this job.
650
00:39:39,927 --> 00:39:42,127
Hey! If you're fishing for
compliments lady,
651
00:39:42,127 --> 00:39:44,847
you're talking to the wrong
small-minded bitch.
652
00:39:46,767 --> 00:39:48,767
Why didn't I know you had a brother?
653
00:39:50,927 --> 00:39:52,886
Because he's a bit of black sheep
654
00:39:52,887 --> 00:39:55,446
in a family of black sheep so that's
going some.
655
00:39:55,447 --> 00:39:57,486
What's he done?
656
00:39:57,487 --> 00:39:59,527
Dom...
657
00:39:59,527 --> 00:40:01,527
What hadn't he done?
658
00:40:02,887 --> 00:40:04,927
No, he's just staying with me
at the minute
659
00:40:04,927 --> 00:40:06,687
because he's a bit down on his luck
660
00:40:06,688 --> 00:40:08,887
and because he's got nowhere else
to go.
661
00:40:17,727 --> 00:40:19,807
Have you arrested Alastair Jackson?
662
00:40:19,807 --> 00:40:21,807
No, Mr Leach. We haven't.
663
00:40:23,127 --> 00:40:25,606
We charged a man called
Philip Martin Hibbert
664
00:40:25,607 --> 00:40:29,446
with the murders of Yasmin Heaney and
Jodie Winterbourne. Do you know him?
665
00:40:29,447 --> 00:40:34,126
Phillip Martin Hibbert?
Yes, yes. He... was in Durham
666
00:40:34,127 --> 00:40:36,806
at the same time I was,
on the same wing, briefly. Why?
667
00:40:36,807 --> 00:40:40,446
Could you describe the sort of
contact you had with him in Durham?
668
00:40:40,447 --> 00:40:43,766
None. And have you had any contact
with him since he was released?
669
00:40:43,767 --> 00:40:45,806
Well, no, of course not.
Why would I?
670
00:40:45,807 --> 00:40:50,286
Hibbert is telling us that you
and he became very close in Durham.
671
00:40:50,287 --> 00:40:52,726
Well, that's not true.
672
00:40:52,727 --> 00:40:55,846
That you had an understanding,
an agreement.
673
00:40:55,847 --> 00:40:57,886
Huh!
674
00:40:57,887 --> 00:41:00,486
Hibbert was an odd,
unpleasant kind of...
675
00:41:00,487 --> 00:41:03,686
just not the sort of person
I would associate with.
676
00:41:03,687 --> 00:41:05,727
That's not what he says.
677
00:41:05,727 --> 00:41:11,487
If he's implying anything about me,
then he's... he's delusional.
678
00:41:22,047 --> 00:41:24,086
Do you know when Janet got stabbed?
679
00:41:24,087 --> 00:41:26,126
Mm.
680
00:41:26,127 --> 00:41:28,407
I fell apart. You didn't.
681
00:41:28,407 --> 00:41:32,527
I just stood there shaking,
babbling.
682
00:41:33,927 --> 00:41:35,686
I'd only known her for 12 months.
683
00:41:35,687 --> 00:41:37,926
You'd known her nearly 20 years,
yet...
684
00:41:37,927 --> 00:41:40,327
it was me that was falling to
bits.
685
00:41:40,327 --> 00:41:43,367
If I hadn't been there you'd have
done everything I did.
686
00:41:45,087 --> 00:41:49,487
You had the luxury of falling apart
because you knew I wouldn't.
687
00:41:50,087 --> 00:41:52,527
You'd have coped, if you'd had to.
688
00:41:54,367 --> 00:41:56,566
I went home and cried my eyes out,
689
00:41:56,567 --> 00:42:00,526
but there was no way I was gonna do
that there then in front of you lot.
690
00:42:00,527 --> 00:42:05,326
Plus. I remember thinking, if this
is the last thing I ever do
691
00:42:05,327 --> 00:42:09,086
for Janet, and I hope to God it
isn't, I'm going to do it properly.
692
00:42:09,087 --> 00:42:12,126
That's where your head would've been
if it'd had to be.
693
00:42:12,127 --> 00:42:15,287
And the fact that you beat yourself
up about stuff so much
694
00:42:15,287 --> 00:42:19,527
tells me how keen you are to learn
and get things right.
695
00:42:20,167 --> 00:42:24,927
You're good. And one day, you'll be
very good. All right?
696
00:42:27,527 --> 00:42:29,887
I made a really bad decision once.
697
00:42:32,767 --> 00:42:34,767
What?
698
00:42:35,527 --> 00:42:37,527
It was when Sammy was four.
699
00:42:39,207 --> 00:42:42,087
I realised way back then that Dave
was mucking about
700
00:42:42,087 --> 00:42:44,087
with another woman and I...
701
00:42:46,527 --> 00:42:48,527
buried my head in the sand.
702
00:42:49,967 --> 00:42:53,447
I was in love with the man
I wanted him to be
703
00:42:53,447 --> 00:42:57,087
not the man he clearly was,
and I ignored it.
704
00:42:58,247 --> 00:43:01,806
For ten years.
Pretended it wasn't happening.
705
00:43:01,807 --> 00:43:06,646
And if I'd had the guts to deal with
it then instead of later
706
00:43:06,647 --> 00:43:09,566
when I had to,
when he went off with...
707
00:43:09,567 --> 00:43:12,446
Everything would've been so much
better for Sammy,
708
00:43:12,447 --> 00:43:15,487
but for me as well because I'd have
got myself organised
709
00:43:15,487 --> 00:43:18,087
so I didn't have to stop working at
the Faculty.
710
00:43:19,167 --> 00:43:21,326
I was good at that job, Rachel,
I loved it.
711
00:43:21,327 --> 00:43:23,847
I know I was born for it, and...
712
00:43:23,847 --> 00:43:27,687
I'd almost forgotten how
much till these last few days.
713
00:43:31,767 --> 00:43:33,967
I'd forgotten how alive
it made me feel.
714
00:43:51,887 --> 00:43:54,407
Have you heard the news?
Very pretty.
715
00:43:56,127 --> 00:43:58,846
So don't you think that is like
a confession?
716
00:43:58,847 --> 00:44:03,126
Not exactly. Someone like Leach,
717
00:44:03,127 --> 00:44:06,846
a control freak,
being in prison's agony.
718
00:44:06,847 --> 00:44:08,967
For all the usual reasons, but on
top of that,
719
00:44:08,967 --> 00:44:10,765
you've got no control over anything.
720
00:44:10,766 --> 00:44:12,607
What time you eat, what time you
sleep,
721
00:44:12,608 --> 00:44:14,406
when you speak to other people.
722
00:44:14,407 --> 00:44:18,486
He's done that because death is the
only bit of control he had left.
723
00:44:18,487 --> 00:44:21,487
After we took away his little
carefully-planned pipe dream,
724
00:44:21,487 --> 00:44:24,607
that's all.
But, you know, who cares?
725
00:44:26,767 --> 00:44:28,767
Well done.
726
00:44:39,127 --> 00:44:40,886
Is everything OK?
727
00:44:40,887 --> 00:44:44,886
Ma'am, is it alright if me and Kev
get off? Yes! Go! Good luck!
Sergeants exam.
728
00:44:44,887 --> 00:44:47,127
We will continue to work round the
clock
729
00:44:47,127 --> 00:44:49,127
until Dylan is brought home to Dawn.
730
00:44:49,687 --> 00:44:51,526
What? My brother's in hospital.
731
00:44:51,527 --> 00:44:54,046
He's been involved in some sort of
traffic accident.
732
00:44:54,047 --> 00:44:56,326
I'm taking you.
You're not missing it cos of me!
733
00:44:56,327 --> 00:44:59,206
So you'll be working with your
ex-husband.
734
00:44:59,207 --> 00:45:01,766
I assume you haven't got a problem
with that? No, Sir.
735
00:45:01,767 --> 00:45:03,807
More flowers?
736
00:45:03,807 --> 00:45:05,807
Who they from this time?
Same.
737
00:45:08,624 --> 00:45:40,501
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