All language subtitles for Travis - The True Story Of Travis Walton (2015) 720p WEB x264 Dr3adLoX.ENG

(Music playing)

John Goulette: It was a
terrifying experience, you know.

I imagine...

the most shook up one
was probably Steve.

He was only, like, 17.
I think

he actually lied about his
age to get the job out there.

Steve Pierce:
Yeah I was 17, so...

I was the kid.

I thought I was going to
go to jail for murder.

John Goulette: There was times
I was saying we need to go back.

There was times I was saying
we need to go get help.

You know? I mean it went

everybody was going back
and forth in their own minds

and between each other.

When we got back there

and we looked around the area,
and we couldn't find Travis

that's when it hit Mike.

Mike and Travis
were best buddies

then, you know, and stuff, and...

i think he felt...

really bad about taking off and
leaving him like that.

Mike Rogers:
It was pretty hectic and...

it was very emotional at
that point.

And your mind just...

just takes off.

Steve Pierce: We came off the
mountain

after just looking for Travis

and we couldn't find him.

And...

we pulled in there

and Kenny got out

and called the Sheriff's
Department.

Marlin Gillespie:
It didn't come directly to me

It came to a deputy sheriff
in Heber

who called me on the phone...

and then he gave me a little
more detail on it.

Chuck Ellison:
When I arrived there

there were 6 young men

and they were just
stomping around

and couple of them were crying.

And I tried to get

just as close to each one
of them as I could

to see if I could detect
odors of marijuana

or alcohol or
anything like that.

Ken Peterson: He said
that he didn't believe us

or disbelieve us. You know?

He was gonna be neutral.

But before we went up on
the hill to radio

for him to radio the Sheriff

we better be certain...

because we could get in
a lot of trouble.

Richard Dolan: Travis Walton was
just 22 years old

when this happened

and he was in this
tiny little town

of Snowflake, Arizona.

This little town that was
founded by Mormons.

Everyone knew everyone
in Snowflake.

So it's not just like he
is in New York City

or some other big town
where he's anonymous.

The question is: what the hell
happened to this young man?

How is it that he could
just disappear?

John Goulette: We were a
rough-looking bunch then,

you know?

A bunch of us

out there with chainsaws
and that

and...

some conflicts here and
there, you know?

So they...

they just smoothly
started assuming

well, they killed this
guy, you know?

Because they were not going
to believe that wild story

we were telling them.

Peter Robbins:
The police...

and no one could blame them

had to look

at the much more obvious
real-world possibility

that these hardworking
tough, blue collar guys

even though they were friends...

there was a falling out

there was a fight, an argument...

and one way or another

Travis lost his life.

The body was hidden.

(radio noises)

(helicopter sounds)

John Goulette: When we
went to search the next day

they split us up

and had a deputy
with each group

and the whole time

deputies asked me:

"Well if you just tell us
where the body is

and what you did with Travis

we can all go home and
get this over with."

Marlin Gillespie: I think
we made contact with the

dog handler

from Arizona State Prison.

He came on site
and started from...

the point that had
been pointed out

as where the incident occured.

Chuck Ellison:
The days proceeded on

and the helicopter went around

and the people expanded
and expanded and

we never found a
footprint or a sign

anywhere of Travis Walton.

(suspenseful music)

Steve Pierce:
They took me first...

and I was scared to death.

I figured I was going
to flunk it.

No matter what, I didn't
want to come here

I tried to sneak out
the back door

the day of the polygraph test...

because all week long

I've been hearing:

"Well, they're going...

to set it up to make you
guys look guilty."

"And you ain't never going to
come out of that jailhouse."

John Goulette:
We couldn't get out.

You know? We weren't...it was

like being under arrest

but they didn't just
say we were

you know?

But it wasn't no different

we weren't leaving, nobody
was going nowhere

until it was completely done.

Ben Hansen:
The polygraph is not perfect.

It's in fact one of the
most awful test that

anyone would have to take.

You are strapped in with
tubes around your chest

and you've got wires
connected to you.

I've taken multiple polygraphs

and I wouldn't wish
that on anyone.

Cy Gilson:
I designed the questions.

The entire test is

established by research
from a Dr. Raskin

out of the University of Utah

who'd done many, many
years of research

on its validitiy
and its accuracy.

Steve Pierce:
It took about 2 hours

and it was like...

4 questions over and
over and over.

Richard Dolan:
"Did you murder Travis Walton?"

"No."

"Did you see

what seemed to be
a flying saucer?"

"Yes."

"Did you see the object hit
him with a beam of light?"

"Yes."

John Goulette: We could've
refused to take the test.

You know, we didn't
have to take it

but we wanted to
get the truth out.

Steve Pierce:
And I passed it...

at 95% I think, or
something like that.

Richard Dolan:
They all...

passed that test.

John Goulette: Most people still
didn't believe it, you know?

Sheriff Gillespie definitely
didn't believe it.

Marlin Gillespie:
I think that they all...

were trying to...

tell the truth about everything.

Richard Dolan:
And then, what happens?

Travis returns.

5 days growth of beard

lost about 10 pounds of weight...

and the frenzy begins.

Interviewer:
"Ok. Can you take us

back to this morning

when this someone or
whoever was that first

got word that he was back?"

Ralph Anderson:
"Ok, well what happened was that

Granten Nash, which is
my brother-in-law

he got the telephone call."

Interviewer:
"Uh-huh."

Ralph Anderson: "He answered:
'Grant, this is Travis

I'm back, I need help.' "

"And he says:

'Wait a minute fellow, you got the
wrong number, I'm sorry.' "

"He said: 'Don't hang up on
me, Grant this is Travis.' "

"He says: 'I need help bad.' "

"He asks him where is he is at

and he said he was in
a telephone booth

out by the Amoco
Station in Heber."

Steve Pierce: I just looked at
my mom and said: "I told you

we didn't kill him."

Mike Rogers: When I did hear
that Travis had been returned

it was almost as unbelievable
as the real thing.

Travis was my best friend.

Interviewer: "(...)And it was
Duane that picked up Travis?"

Ralph Anderson:
"Yes...

which is the closest one
to him, anyway

out of all of his brothers."

Interviewer:
"Okay."

Ralph Anderson:
"He said that when he reached

in the booth to grab Travis

he said Travis started
to scooting away

trying to get away
from him."

"He reached down and picked him
up and held him in his arms

just like grabbing a baby."

"He just cuddled right up
and started crying."

"They weighed him,
he lost 12 pounds."

"He said he had not
eaten in 5 days."

"He was in terrible shape."

(Intense Music)

Travis Walton: I was trying
to tell him what had happened

you know? Just trying
to get it out.

It was such a...

it was just too traumatic.

I was just...

it was all broke up.

He said something about
how concerned

my mother been in those days...

and I didn't understand.

It became apparent in
the exchange there

that...

i was thinking this was
still the same night.

And he said: "Travis feel
your face."

And I reached up and felt that
I had a 5 day growth of beard...

and, you know, that came as...

really a terrible shock.

Reporter: Travis Walton
reappeared after several days

with a bizarre story about
a ride

in an unidentified
flying object.

But it has been basically a
second-hand story.

Travis has been in hiding

and has not met
with the media.

Consequently, there has
been a lot of questions

about the truthfulness of what
Travis has had to say.

Steve Pierce: I didn't know he was
back until that followng night.

My mom said someone came by

and said Travis is back

but he's in a Tucson hospital.

Travis Walton:
I really...

kind of went catatonic
for a little bit there.

Went back had a very emotional
reunion with my mother.

It was...

just tears my heart to even

think, to this day, you know

that...what she was
going through.

Interviewer: Have you heard much

communication with the
news on this?

Ralph Anderson: "Yes I have
been in and out all the time

they're trying to corner mom,
and we're trying to

o keep mom away from them."

"We've even got some
kooks in here now

that are coming in
and out to see

the 'freak show', as
they call it."

Richard Dolan:
Everyone descends, not just

your local UFO groups

UFO researchers.

Sure, they were there.

But on top of that:
you have Media

you have the "National Enquirer"

the great tabloid rag

that was covering
things like this.

Chuck Ellison:
The first night

I lay down in bed and
the phone rang.

It did not stop till
daylight or after.

Marlin Gillespie:
I literally...

some times, would be on 2
telephones at the same time.

I had phone calls...

from all over the world.

Chuck Ellison:
I was called by Canada

I was called by England

I was called by Japan

I was called by Russia

I was called by several
Asian countries

I was called...call, call, call.

All night long.

Cy Gilson: We did an interview at

the headquarters, sometime later

with the news crew there

and they asked some questions

regarding the test

and the results and so on.

Marlin Gillespie: Basically,
we all told them the same thing

that we were investigating

and didn't have
any final results.

Travis Walton: The media
scrutiny was so intense.

Once it was even suspected that
my brother was involved.

The reporters were knocking on
the door there constantly.

When we went to leave the
hospital, somebody yelled out:

"There he is!"

And they chased us
into the traffic.

Reporter: "Travis,
why didn't you

bring your story to the Media?"

Travis Walton:
"Well, my family...

told me about the news
people and all people

that were crowding around."

"And I was just in no condition

to...talk to anybody

especially...

a mob of people like that."

"I just couldn't handle it."

Plus, the warnings that
my brother had

and my family had from
various quarters.

It was a dangerous situation

as to who might get
the hold of you.

Not necessarily that the
sheriff's department

would be involved in any sort of
foul play or underhanded attempt

but what if they were to
hand me over to some

government agency...

to heck with what damage that
might do to me, you know?

If they were after information
or certain things

that they considered important.

Interviewer: "Does he remember
what this thing looked like?"

Ralph Anderson:
"The craft?"

Interviewer:
"Yeah."

Ralph:
"Yes."

Travis Walton: We were
working on the Moyan Rim

in the Sitgreaves
National Forest

which is the largest Ponderosa
pine forest in the world.

It stretches all the way from
south of the Grand Canyon

clear into New Mexico.

But there's much of it that's
relatively untouched

because it was, you know,
one of the last frontiers.

Mike Rogers: I was the crew
boss, it was my contract

and I hired Travis and
several other guys.

Travis had been
working for me for

practically 10 years already.

Travis Walton:
It was gratifying because

we were actually, you know
improving the forest.

It was called "Timber
Stand Improvement":

to remove damaged and
dead trees and then

clear out certain overgrowth

to limit the fire danger
and protect the forest.

When we weren't working

the beauty of the surroundings

was just something that
just has an effect

that, you know, it's really
just hard to describe.

You have to be there
to appreciate

the freshness of the wilderness

and being in touch with nature,
the animals, the trees.

John Goulette: At times,
on your brakes and that

it was like sitting out
here right now

just relaxing out
in the woods.

It's beautiful and
that, you know?

It was a great job.

Travis Walton:
It was early November

pretty cold but it would
warm up pretty quickly

once the sun came up.

But not too much so that

you didn't overheat
getting work done.

Ken Peterson: I don't remember
doing it but Mike says that

I called in sick that morning

and he had to do
some talking to...

to get me to...

go work with them.

Come pretty close to missing out
on an experience like that.

John Goulette: We were always
a little behind on the contract

you'd just get out there
and bust your butt

for a couple days and
get caught back up.

That day we were a little
behind and so we worked until

it was starting to get dark.

Travis Walton:
We loaded up the equipment

and...

put it in the truck.

And headed out of there and

hadn't driven very far
when we caught...

glimmers of this glow coming
through the trees.

John Goulette:
I'd first thought it was the moon

and as we were driving along
I'm look over here

and I can see
the moon over here.

Travis Walton: Definitely
something out of

the ordinary, you know?

You don't normally see
any light at all

out in the woods at night.

John Goulette: I spent time, I
was on an

aircraft carrier and that.

I've been around a lot
of air craft and that.

Somebody was saying that
maybe it's a plane crash

but I am looking at it and
it's not a plane crash.

Travis Walton: Could be
headlights shining up

at an angle

maybe a camp fire, or lights
in a tent or something.

But...

that just wasn't kind of fitting
in with the lay-of-the-land.

John Goulette: It's kind of like

light shining through
a lampshade.

Basically, it was kinda
a yellowish glow to it

that is how it appeared to me.

Travis Walton: I urged Mike to
hurry up

and get up there to where

the light was breaking
through the trees.

There seem to be sort of an
opening through the trees.

It was letting some of the
light shine across

the road ahead.

And when we broke
into the clearing...

there it was.

Mike Rogers:
This thing was setting in

about 15 and 25 feet
off the ground.

It had some kind of a round
thing on the top like a dome.

Basically, it was very,
very sleek. You know?

John Goulette: God it was
just absolutely beautiful.

Travis Walton: As soon as
Mike did stop the truck

i was throwing open the door

and hurrying towards it

thinking it would just take
off almost immediately.

John Goulette: Travis had the
door open

before we even stopped.

(laugh)

I don't know why!

I have asked him about that:
"What were you thinking?"

Travis Walton: I was really, you
know, immediately had a greatly

growing fear that

I had made a foolish move.

But I didn't want to betray
that to the rest of the guys.

So I kept going but, you know

at a slower rate.

John Goulette:
As he got closer

I heard the sound

it was like a "beep".

There was a high-pitched
alternating frequency

that carried real well.

But the closer I got

the more subtleties I
could hear to the sound.

Parts of it that seemed, to me,
at the edge of the range

of human hearing

on the high-end

and also in the low end

where you were actually
feeling the sound

rather than just hearing
it with the ear.

Mike Rogers: When my hands
were on the steering wheel

I could feel it and my elbow
was on the window

I could feel it through that.

It did get a little scary
after a while

because it started getting...

a more intense, louder,
more volume.

Travis Walton:
I jumped into a crouch

which is kind of like
down and forward

which brought me that
much closer to the craft.

So, when I stood up to
run back to the truck

that's what brought my body

into the closest proximity to
the surface of that craft.

John Goulette: I turned my head
the other way,

and the woods all lit up.

A bluish green light.

And when I looked back

he's...

a few feet off of the ground

and stretched out:

like this.

(alien noises)

John Goulette: I mean it wasn't
like he had a muscle at all

or bones.

He just crumpled up right there.

I thought he was dead.

And that's when Mike
started the truck up

and took off.

We drove down the road maybe

a quarter of a mile, half
mile from the craft.

And you could see vehicles every once
in a while going down that road,

where you knew it was
hunters with guns.

My thought, at first, was:
"Let's go get some of those."

A lot of us were saying
to go back and that

and at the same time
saying lets go get help.

But...

it was Mike's decision.

Mike Rogers:
I just said: "I'm going back."

"You can stay here, you know,
or get in the truck"...

and I was surprised that
they all got in the truck.

John Goulette: I think we had one
flashlight

and he had the headlights...

of the vehicle shining up
in that clearing

on that slash pile.

We walked around the
perimeter with a flashlight

and all in a line, one right
behind the other.

Travis Walton: Once they
couldn't find me and, you know

my body wasn't lying where
i'd hit the ground.

They just figure they needed
to go and get help.

Duane Walton:
He spent 5 days on the UFO,

he thinks, now there

is some small-time lost
in there, but...

for all intensive purposes,
he spent 5 days on there.

He did come into contact
with some beings that

were human-like but
they weren't human.

Reporter: Obviously Duane,
you know your own brother

probably better than
anybody else.

Do you believe this story?

Duane Walton: I've never seen
him play a practical joke

in his adult life.

Ralph Anderson: "The police up
here said that if it is a hoax

they are going to grab
them and put all kind of

charges against them."

Interviewer:
"Uhuh."

Ralph Anderson:
"And...

that is the only thing involved
in it right now."

Interviewer:
"I see."

John Goulette: The only
threats I got were like...

verbal harassment

while i'm walking on the
street or something.

You know?

Somebody yelled out:
"Hey! We know what you did!"

or saying we were
stoned on drugs.

And then there was some
government people.

I am sure they were
government, because

they used to drive those old
Plymouth cars that...

you know, they would
be the ugliest color

and the rims always matched

and 2 guys sitting there
in suits.

I'd see them for about the
first couple of weeks,

just about every time I
went out the door.

Interviewer: "And they are
going to run him through this

polygraph test?"

Ralph Anderson: "Right."
Interviewer: "I see."

Ralph Anderson: "The
process is through hypnosis

and they said possibly

sodium pentothal."

Interviewer: "They are going to
give him the works, aren't they?"

Ralph Anderson:
"Yes."

Cy Gilson: He was scheduled to
take an examination with me at

our office in Phoenix
at the time...

and...

he never showed up for it.

But I think it's more...

Duane's influence, rather than
his that he didn't show up.

Reporter
"Why not the polygraph test?"

"This has been a major criticism."

Jim Lorenzen:
"A lot of people criticize it

because they think polygraph

is a lie detector."

"Because it's called
that but it's not

and Travis was under
that impression too."

"He was anxious to take

the lie detector,
polygraph test."

"I advised him not to

and so have other people
advised him not to

because what it actually
measures is stress."

"And...

questions about
stressful memories

would bring stress reactions
just as well as anything else."

They didn't even have the term
"Post Traumatic Stress Disorder"

in those days, you know?

In those days, they called
it "Shell Shocked"

or...

there was other words for it

related to wartime trauma.

Jim Lorenzen:
"One of the psychiatrists said

it would have been a disaster

for him to take
it at the time."

"It would've

created a lot of
false impressions."

Travis Walton:
This...

led to a lot of
misunderstandings

and a lot of bad feeling.

The Sheriff couldn't understand

the fragile condition
I was in.

To him, you know

my top priority should be

get out there and take a
lie dectector test.

I was in such a fragile
condition

that my brother made
all of these decisions.

I didn't even talk with him, or
discuss these things with him,

tell him what I wanted.

Whether I would do this interview
or do that or anything.

I was, you know, not in
that kind of shape.

Richard Dolan: He had to
process all of this...

and...

and that is the hard
thing to do

because...

even though he was
gone for 5 days,

he only remembered

about 2 hours worth...

of his time.

And you have to ask yourself:

"Why didn't he
remember more?"

David Jacobs: After the event
made publicity in Arizona,

it turns out that there was
a nationally-known

UFO organization in Tucson

called the "Aerial Phenomenon
Research Organization"

or APRO.

They reached out

to...

Travis and

arranged for hypnosis to be
done by Dr. James Harder.

Leo Sprinkle:
And he was a skilled investigator

with engineering background

as well as with hypnotic
techniques.

Travis Walton:
He did a regression on me

in which I was able to

recount the memories
for the first time

in their entirety...

without so much of the
fear that was just

keeping me from
even speaking

without...

breaking down.

Kathleen Marden:
I talked to Dr. James Harder

not long after

he interviewed Travis and

worked on that case.

And Dr. Harder stressed

the psychological impact

that this had upon Travis.

He was terrified.

Travis Walton:
"When I...

regained conscieneness,

I was looking up at a light

shining down on me
from the ceiling."

"I...I...

believed that I was
in the hospital."

"I...

didn't make any
attempt to move

because...

of the pain I was in."

"I couldn't focus my
eyes very well but

I look

beyond

the top-edge of...

the thing that was laying
across me and I saw...

2 men

leaning over me."

"That had kind of underdeveloped
features and...

no hair of any kind."

"I didn't even think, I just

lashed out and

I...

grabbed

a tube,

a clear piece of glass,
or something."

"And I tried to break off
the end to

get something sharp
to defend myself."

"They didn't try to approach
or anything."

"They just left."

"They just ran out real fast."

"There was a corridor outside

and they went to the right
and I went to the left."

"It was very narrow corridor

and it was dimmly lit
everywhere."

"I went into this room...

you could even

see the stars

back through the wall
I just came through."

"And there was nothing
in the room but a chair

with some...

controls and knobs
and things."

"I heard somebody come in
and I turned around and

it was a man."

"He wasn't like the other...

creatures or whatever at all."

"He...

he looked just like
you and I, except

he had a helmet on."

"I started babbling questions
to him

and I ran over there,

he wouldn't answer me."

"He just took me by the arm and
wanted me to go with him."

"I thought he...

maybe he can't hear me
through the helmet."

"We went out to the door,

there was a large room."

"There was 2 other UFOs

It looked like flying saucers

except they were round
and oval shaped

and they were really shiny like...

chrome."

"I was lead down in a hallway

and in a room with 3 other
people that were like himself."

"I sat in a chair and I tried to
get the people to talk to me...

that were there and they didn't
have things on their head."

"And so, I thought that maybe
they could hear me

but they wouldn't
answer either."

"They put...

a mask over my face

it was kind of like an
oxygen mask thing,

it was kind of clear plastic."

"I looked up at the
ceiling which was...

all solid light."

"There was no light
fixture or anything."

"And

that was the last I remembered."

"I went to sleep until...

I woke up, I was laying
on the pavement."

"I looked up at the road
way, it was night."

"And I could see a light...

on the bottom of...

of a...

a flying saucer and

it just went straight up really fast...

without a sound."

"I recognized the road way

and I could see a light down the
hill, so I ran down that way."

"Down to the phonebooth

by the gas station there."

"I called...

my brother-in-law."

"That's the way it happened."

John Goulette:
What happened to Travis after...

we took off in that truck,
I can't tell you.

You know, I wasn't there.

I don't know.

But I believe every word Travis
said about it, you know?

I don't have any
doubt in my mind.

He's never lied to
me about nothing.

Travis Walton: That procedure
was actually quite a major step

in the reduction of stress
that I was feeling.

I say reduction but, you
know, it was just...

at dangerous levels for
months afterwards.

Kathleen Marden: We know that
it's possible to confabulate

under hypnosis.

But it is very important
for the hypnotist

to put in safeguards

to prevent that
from happening.

And James Harder,
Dr. James Harder

was very skilled at
doing hypnosis.

Travis Walton: The session was
taped, it was observed

by 2 psychiatrists...

3 actually.

a whole team of reporters,
other researchers, my brother,

there was quite a few
people present.

You know, everything was
properly conducted.

Kathleen Marden: There is no
reason really to believe that

it did not occur the
way he recalled it.

He had a lot of conscious recall
of what had occurred

and he just filled in
some of the details.

Reporter: "You have listened to
the description that he gave us

of his ordeal."

"What are your comments
or reactions

in comparison with past cases?"

Jim Lorsenzen: "I was struck by
the fact that he described...

these beings that didn't
look quite human."

"He described them precisely
the way another...

person has described them

who had a similar experience."

"Now this case is not been
published anywhere

and no case like it that I know
has been published."

"So it's something that Travis could
not have read anywhere...

and the descriptions
are identical."

Kathleen Marden:
We have the core experience

and that is what is
so important here.

Travis Walton: Not too long
after the incident happened

you know,

many investigators
other than the

"Aerial Phenomena
Research Organization"...

most notably, Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
a number of other people

who were very active
in the field at the time.

Who have either passed away or
retired from the field.

But...

one person really comes
to mind was:

Stanton Friedman,

a nuclear physicist who...

takes a very scientific
approach to investigation

of such things.

Stanton Friedman: My focus is
on facts and data and evidence,

not on sensationalism.

And I haven't had a case
sighting myself

so I am not talking about "look
at me, look at what I saw,

look at what I did."

And I specialize in using
archives and places like that.

And I think that's important
that as a nuclear physicist,

I demonstrate that you
can be scientific

when dealing with something
as, kind of, off-the-wall

as a flying saucers,
or off the sky.

Travis Walton:
Stan does his homework

and he does his fieldwork, too.

He came out there

visited me in my home,

spoke to other people involved,

investigated the site.

Stanton Friedman: That is what I
am known for, I check on things.

And I have, what I call
"a big grey basket".

Not black, not white. Maybe.

People want a "yes"
or a "no" answer,

you believe this or don't.

I say "I don't know enough".

In many cases

somebody tells you a
story for 2 minutes

and I am supposed to
make a judgement?

No.

That is not the way we
nuclear physicists act.

At least this one doesn't.

Travis Walton:
The true watchdog of truth

is someone who
advocates objectivity

open-minded examination.

You neither accept nor
reject until all the evidence

has been properly evaluated:

and that's all the evidence
Pro and con.

Lee Spiegel: No matter what
your perception of something is

or your belief or your opinion
or your speculation...

If you want to do the job right,

just follow where the
evidence takes you.

And no matter where
it leads you to

no matter what kind of
an outcome or result,

whether you like the
outcome or not,

you will always stay credible

if you follow the evidence.

Stanton Friedman: The uniqueness
of Travis's case is that...

a certain aspect you don't
see in many other cases.

For one,

there were

several other people who
saw him being zapped.

It wasn't 1 man's testimony.

Ben Hansen: The one witness
cases with no physical evidence

are pretty easy just
to kind of put aside

and say "Well, I can't
say either way

If you got one person
telling me a story."

Now when you
have 7 people

telling you the same story

and those 7 people

are all passing on the
relevant questions

in not just one polygraph,
but in multiple polygraphs.

I don't know of another case.

I do not know of any other
UFO type of a case

that has that much empirical
evidence in its favor

just solely based
on the polygraph.

Marlin Gillespie:
Back in those early 70s...

there were not too many
polygraph examiners

in the state of
Arizona.

And...

local law enforcement,
small agencies

depended upon

either Phoenix Police
Department or Tucson

to furnish that type
of expertise.

Cy Gilson: I was a police
officer for a number of years

and when...

the Department of
Public Safety

was instituted in 1968...

there were certain things that
they were going to furnish

in some scientific field:

questioned documents
and things like that

and polygraph.

They tested several of us

and the outcome was that I...

I was number one on the list

and I was sent to New York

to a polygraph school
in New York City.

This was in the fall of 1971

and I have been doing
polygraphs ever since.

Marlin Gillespie:
Cy Gilson whose opinion

was pretty well-known and
respected

as a polygraph examiner,

we had used him on other matters,
criminal matters, and stuff

always with good results.

Cy Gilson: We had a meeting
of the 6 crew members

and the sheriff,

Travis' older brother,

I think his name was Duane,
I believe,

in...

the chow hall of the jail.

They finally agreed...

that they would all submit
to this exam.

I did tell them briefly
what it was like,

what was going to be
attached to their bodies

and why.

And gave them some
kind of an idea

of what they were going to go
through during this test.

John Goulette: They came
in and talked to us,

we got into an argument
with them, you know?

Some of us had been in
trouble with the law before.

Steve Pierce: I was more scared this
day that we came

to this court house

than the day that I had
seen Travis get zapped.

This was the most horrible day

because

I just knew that we weren't
coming out of there.

Cy Gilson:
There was one young man,

he was the youngest
of the group,

sat over sort of to the side

and didn't have much input
or anything to say.

And from past experience with
interrogations and so on,

someone like that is
more likely to admit

that it's a sham

or whatever.

So he's the one I want
to choose first

because if it was a sham,

it would save a lot of time
and effort on my part

and everybody else.

Steve was his first name

but I don't remember
the last name.

John Goulette: I always
thought they just took Steve

because he was

young and the most scared.

Steve Pierce: Yeah, I was the first
one to take the polygraph test

because they thought
I would crack.

Cy Gilson: I usually can
get a pretty good idea

as I go through the exam,

to know whether or not

the questions are

profitable, in the sense that

he is responding

to certain specific questions.

And that I would have a
conclusive examination

and...

frankly, when I finished
with him

I was quite surprised myself

because he was
passing the exam.

Mike Rogers:
We were there until 10 o'clock,

9:30...10:00 o'clock at night

and then the guy
tried to walk out

without letting
us know anything.

I didn't like that, so
I chased him down

and I told him:
"We have to know!"

Cy Gilson: I tested each
one of them down the line

and they all come out...

on the positive side.

They were being truthful to
those relevant questions.

Cleve Baxter:
"5 of them passed,

1 of them was inconclusive
merely because

of the person's general
nervous tension."

Cy Gilson: One young guy,
I think

he was a red haired fellow,

his name was Dallas,
that's his last name.

And he had been in
some minor scrapes

or something with the
law prior to that.

So he was a little bit...

dubious about taking
the exam to start with.

He did not cooperate
with me at all.

They have to cooperate
in a sense

that they had to sit still,

no movement,

listen to the questions,
one-word answer and so on.

And he was doing everything
he could to

disrupt the tracing,
which he did, and

his test was inconclusive.

As far as...

conclusive examinations
of the polygraph tests

the fact that the
5 that I did test

and they all come out
passing the exam

in the way that they did,

I would probably eliminate
to the most degree

that there would be 1 lying
and get past me.

That would be...

I think impossible in itself.

Nathan Gordon: One of the first
polygraph examiners to review

the case was Edward Gelb.

In 1978, was president of the
"American Polygraph Association".

He came to the conclusion that
the possibility of 5 people

telling the same story,
passing a polygraph test

and not telling the truth,

would be a million to 1.

Kathleen Marden:
That is extremely important.

There's a lot of controversy
about the lie detector test.

Some people state that...

an honest person

can tell the truth and fail,

a sociopath can lie and pass.

But it would be
extraordinarily difficult

for 5 people, initially,
to pass that test.

Eventually the sixth did
take the test and passed

and Travis and his brother

also passed lie detector test,

after lie detector test.

Travis Walton: If that's not
sufficient evidence concerning

this UFO incident

what are we doing convicting
people and condemning them

to death on the basis of
less testimony than that?

Ben Hansen: If you only had
the evidence of the polygraph

you still have the most
well-documented case

in UFO history.

We also have the tree growth
in the immediate vicinity.

In the Summer of 2014

we went back to the site

to do a field survey.

It's been so many years
since the original incident

that we really did not expect

to find anything there,

but while we were
on the site

a discovery was made.

Travis Walton: The calculations
show that these trees were producing

wood fiber at 30 something times

the rate they had in the
previous 85 years.

Other trees exhibited the
same kind of changes

and the effect diminished the
farther you got from that spot.

Ben Hansen: Not only was
there an extreme growth rate

to some of these trees
around the clearing

but it seems that there's also
a directionality to them.

Travis Walton:
I started checking stumps

at the 4 corners of the compass

and discovered that there was

a swelling and a thickening

of the growth rings

in the direction that
the craft had been

and not on its opposite side,

that was where the thickness of
the rings were at the minimum.

Ben Hansen: Travis and some
of the original people who

did the first surveys

have posited that
possibly that the

cell growth was
caused by radiation.

I took that a step further and

did some digging to see if
there's been any

academic studies

done on radiation in tree growth

and I found at least 1 or 2

related to
the Chernobyl incident.

A university out of Poland
did a study in 1997

that found trees

that were exposed to radiation
after Chernobyl,

had grown up to 3 times

in volume of accelerated growth

as compared to previous years.

Our field survey and

finding this directionality

and possible connection
to radiation,

opened a whole lot of

new doors that need
to be explored.

We're really hoping
that we can get

certain universities that

are experts in

tree ring growth

involved in this to see
if we can actually

see if there is a connection.

Travis Walton: I think it's
important

for people to recognize
the weight of evidence,

that these things do happen.

Richard Dolan: If you go
online and look for UFO reports

you will find in North
America alone

about 12 thousand
sightings a year.

That does not mean that they
are all alien craft, obviously,

but there's a lot going on
every single day...

every day!

And people are seeing

truly inexplicable
things happening.

John Goulette:
I mean...

how can you possibly believe

that we're the only beings
in this universe?

It's not...

no way.

Travis Walton: We've come a long
way in our understanding about

the odds of life elsewhere.

With what? A hundred
billion stars in the Milky Way?

Conservatively, if there was
only 10 planets per star

we are talking about

a thousand billion planets.

Not all of which would be,
life-supporting of course

but there's just enough
believability,

just enough numbers
of reports

to sort of nudge people
in the direction

of accepting that we
are not alone.

Kathleen Marden: The public
is becoming more aware

and more accepting

that there is life out there,

in the universe, in our
galaxy in fact,

and that that life has
traveled to our Earth.

Travis Walton: At the same time,
I am always careful to say that

not everything that is
reported is of this nature.

You know, I think it is
important to retain

a degree of healthy skepticism.

Ben Hansen:
I, personally

have seen at least

3 different objects
that I can't explain

doing very unconventional
maneuvers in the sky.

Does that make
me a believer?

Do people ask if
I am a skeptic?

I don't like those terms

because I think everyone
should be skeptical.

Richard Dolan:
We need skeptics.

We need intelligent people

with a skeptical attitude about this

because this is a strange field.

Lee Spiegel: But a
debunker is someone who...

is out there to

tear people's stories down,

to ridicule people.

So that the people will
either just go away

and take their stories
with them

or will be forced
into a situation

where they'll admit
that they

made it all up, even
though they didn't.

Stanton Friedman: 4 basic
rules for UFO debunkers

and Travis has run
into all of these:

1) "Don't bother me with
the facts,my mind is made up."

2) "What the public doesn't
know,

I am not going to tell them."

3) "If you can't
attack the data... "

this is particularly true
in Travis' case,

"...attack the people."

And 4) "Do your research by
proclamation

investigation is too
much trouble."

James Fox: You know,
it's so funny because I have gone on

a lot of times with
some debates

with some of these
debunkers and...

"Your extraterrestrial,
you said..."

I say: "I didn't say it was
extraterrestrial,

I said maybe it is,
I don't know,

how am I supposed to know?"

All I'm saying is that this
is what people saw,

this is what was reported,

this is what the photographic
evidence backs up,

the radar evidence,
whatever it is.

Whatever particular
case it is,

you can speculate
all you want

as to figure out what it was.
We know what it wasn't.

Travis Walton:
They begin with the idea that

if it's unproven

that's the absolute
equivalent of disproven.

And, you know, if you think
about it that's pretty absurd.

Peter Robbins:
They "know"...

that UFOs aren't real,

they absolutely know
it as empirical fact.

You know, how
cool is that?

Lee Spiegel: They will
reach and they will stretch

and they will find anything
that they think

will make some kind of
sense to somebody,

as a way of explaining.

Their whole job is:

"We must explain this away."

Certainly one of
the most successful propagandist

of the second half
of the 20th century

was Philip Klass.

And his area of
propagandizing was

almost anything strange,
but especially UFOs.

Kathleen Marden: He through
the 50s and early 60s

had never read anything on
the topic of UFOs

but he had already
predetermined

that anyone who believed that

this had happened

was a "crank" or a "kook".

Those were 2 of
his favorite words.

Stanton Friedman:He sat on a
very privileged position,

he was Senior Avionics Editor

for "Aviation Week
and Space Technology"

based in Washington, DC.

So the go-to guy for any Media
people who needed anything.

Richard Dolan: Klass was a man
who was extremely well-connected.

You know, years before
the Travis Walton case,

Klass worked very hard to
destroy the reputation

of one of America's leading
atmospheric physicist:

a man named James McDonald.

James was a fearless,
brilliant, tireless

UFO investigator researcher.

To kill the character
of people, if you couldn't

attack their findings

was something that Philip
became very good at.

I think Philip
contributed directly

to the suicide of

Dr. James McDonald, one
of the finest and most

courageous scientists
in the history

of trying to get UFOs into
the public mindset.

Klass also did the same thing
with Stanton Friedman.

I discovered a letter
in the archives

in the Canadian
National Archives...

when Friedman moved
to Canada back in 1979,

Klass wrote a scandalously,

scathing libelous letter

to the Canadian National
Research Council

trying to destroy Friedman's
reputation there.

Stanton Friedman:
He carried on what I would call

a personal vendetta...

against Travis.

He hadn't talked to
any of the witnesses

during that...not
naturally not.

That wasn't his style.

Travis Walton: There were
some rather

underhanded tactics
being employed,

altering quotations to make

to reverse the meaning of
things that people said.

And even...

misquote to make it seem

that they were saying
something they didn't.

Chuck Ellison: Philip Klass did
contact me and I took him out

to the scene. We spent
a day out there.

He brought a Geiger
counter out with him

and we went to the scene
and he checked it out.

Cy Gilson: I received a
phone call from Philip Klass

and he told me who he was and
what he was looking for:

information.

And he started asking
me questions.

I had some input with regard
with Mr. Klass beforehand,

so I asked him if he would
just put all those questions

and stuff in writing

and send it to me,
I would be happy to

answer his questions.

But I never received any
letters from him.

Travis Walton: Philip Klass was
extremely thorough in digging.

I mean, he called
former employers,

he...everything.

But he connected with anything.

And here I am the main
person involved...

never attempted to
even phone me,

never attempted
to write a letter

or anything.

Stanton Friedman: So there is
no concern with truth...

or with people's
reputations

or anything like that.

That's the way he was.

I say that...I met
with him,

we even had some
meals together

where we agreed not
to talk about UFOs.

Frankly, but most of the time.

Travis Walton: What the crew
did was get together and

signed a joint letter

challenging
Philp Klass...

to a new polygraph test
that the crew would take

and it would have to
be an examiner that

was mutually agreed-upon

so that...

in the aftermath,
when we passed,

which we would,

there could be no criticism that

the evidence was
tainted in any way.

Now, he would have
to pay for the test

if we passed.

We would pay for
them if we flunked.

So he's got nothing
to lose by accepting.

He wound up basically,
not really accepting it

because he couldn't
back it up.

Stanton Friedman: Phil's
approach was very staightforward:

You start with the assumption

that can't be anything
to flying saucers,

so every case has a
prosaic explanation,

he claimed.

Kathleen Marden: He initially
stated that Travis Walton

must have been
out in a cabin

in the woods, and
that when he...

when his brother

took him to Phoenix
for medical exams,

the puncture wound on the
back side of his elbow

must have been
an indication that

Travis was injecting LSD.

Peter Robbins: He "knows" that

Travis didn't have
the experience,

therefore, it must have
been something else.

And one of his pet
theories was

Travis and the other men who
he was working with...

had a contract

to log a certain amount
of lumber

over the course of a year.

Travis Walton: He settled in
on the idea that Mike Rogers

was in deep trouble
with his contract

and he had to invent the story
in order to get out of it.

Peter Robbins:
And so they came up with this

perfectly rational story

of Travis being hit by
a beam of light

from a UFO

and that is the excuse
that they gave

for trying to get out
of the contract.

Mike Rogers: That would get
us out of the contract and

I'd get my 10% retention and

everybody get paid and

we can make it through
the winter,

see?

It was...it was wrong
on every count,

every single count.

Chuck Ellison: I knew that
they were having trouble

with the contract...

I knew that, but you see...

I also know that doing
something like that

is not going to get you
out of the contract.

It just ain't.

Travis Walton: It was a hounding
that went so far as to urge

a federal criminal
investigator to come

and try to force Mike

to sign a confession.

And Mike got written affidavits

from the contracting officers,
in the forest service,

stating clearly

that there's absolutely no way

that Mike could have benefited

and actually was harmed

in many ways by this incident
having happened.

Steve Pierce: You know, just
like, Phil Klass offered me

the $10,000.

That was a lot of money
back in the 70s.

Kathleen Marden: Steve Pierce,
who was the youngest member

of the work crew that
Travis Walton was on,

stated that Philip Klass

offered him $10,000 in order to

say that this was a hoax.

Richard Dolan:
$10,000...

is a nice amount
of money today.

In 1980, that was a really
nice chunk of money.

And particularly if you're a
young guy like Steve Pierce

was at the time, who was
struggling financially.

Could have used the money.

Travis Walton:
He flew, we dicovered later,

to Texas, to track Steve down,

even though he was
operating under

his middle name: Jeff.

And took him out to dinner
and expended a tremendous

amount of time and
effort and money

to try to persuade him

to take the $10,000 bribe.

Richard Dolan:
Why would any normal citizen

go through,

such...

jumping through such hoops

to get someone to
debunk this case?

Another thing to consider
with Klass...

are the people that
he consorted with.

Now, one of these was a man
named Donald Menzel.

Before there was Klass, Menzel
was America's leading

debunker of UFOs.

Menzel was an astronomer
at Harvard University.

It doesn't get any
better than that.

Peter Robbins:
A highly respected academic,

who wrote a number of books...

under the pose of

you know, a skeptical academic

looking at UFOs as

misinterpretations of

natural phenomenon.

Richard Dolan: But there was a
secret life to Donald Menzel...also.

that nobody, or very few
people knew about.

Donald Menzel was...

very well connected to the NSA.

Stanton Friedman: I had to get
permission

from 3 different people

to look at Menzel's
papers at Harvard.

And discovered to
my total shock...

that he wrote Jack Kennedy,

President Kennedy,

whom we knew been on the
board of overseers at Harvard

and his area of interest
was astronomy,

is one area where he may
be able to provide

special assistance and
that has to do

with very special National
Security Agency (NSA).

And he tells Kennedy:

"When we are properly cleared
to each other,

I can tell you more."

Which is one of
those "What?!"

Richard Dolan: Back in the
in the 60s and 70s, the NSA

was very much below
the radar of this nation.

Menzel's wife didn't even know

that he was

well connected with the NSA.

That is how secret this was.

But Menzel and Klass

had a very close correspondence.

Stanton Friedman: Back in the
70s, it suddenly turns out

that the CIA...

was playing footsy with
a lot of journalists.

They would report
to the CIA after

attendance at a
foreign conference...

on a regular basis.

Big names for
major publications.

And it was a big
scandal at the time.

My feeling is that Phil
was the perfect person

to be...

used by the CIA.

He wasn't married,

he traveled a great deal
to conferences,

he had a legitimate job
for a major publication:

very well-thought of,
the Aviation Week.

And he could attend conferences and...

report back what:

"Americans were saying,
they shouldn't been saying."

"What Russians were saying
that, we'd like to know

what they were saying."

Richard Dolan: Klass was able to get

op-ed pieces in the
New York Times like

no big deal.

He was able to get
on major Media

to talk about these cases,

no big deal for him.

Well gee, when you think
about how difficult

that is to do,

you have to be very
well-connected

to do all of those things.

Travis Walton: And now that,
through

the Freedom of Information Act,

I have come into possession
of the FBI investigation

of this guy [Philip Klass].

There's definite evidence
that he probably

was acting on behalf

of some covert agency,

in attempting to discredit this.

Chuck Ellison:
He identified himself to me as

U.S. Government
UFO investigator...

Philip Klass.

And I think he was,
you know?

And he was the only U.S.
government man

that appeared on the scene.

Travis Walton:
I don't believe that anyone

turned him into a UFO skeptic...

but they certainly were in
a position to guide and

also finance his efforts.

Richard Dolan:
"Here is our slush fund:

here is $10,000

and you are going to
destroy this case for us."

This is a classic mark

of an intelligence
community operation.

Kathleen Marden: Klass stated
in letters that he did not have

a very high income,

so the money came
from somewhere.

I don't know if it was
a federal agency,

if it was a private individual,

or what it was

but he was highly
motivated.

Mike Rogers: He was acting
as though he had orders

to kill this, no matter what.

You know?

If you can't find a
chink in the armor,

make one.

And that is what he did.

Richard Dolan:
Now let us go a step further:

Why would the Intelligence
Community

want to debunk the
Travis Walton case?

Travis Walton: It sounds like
science fiction, but, you know

you have to acknowledge

it would be

extremely disruptive

for this kind of

you know,

total undeniable truth

to be just delivered to
the world tomorrow.

Lee Spiegel:
People say to me:

"Why doesn't the president

or why doesn't our
government

admit that

UFOs are from someplace else?"

Because they can't.

Because nobody in the government

is willing to come out and say:

"Yes, we are being visited

and we are sorry that we
lied to you about it

and kept it from you for
so many decades

but we felt that we were
doing it for your benefit,

to protect you, to protect
the citizens until

we knew more about it."

Stanton Friedman: Disinformation
was a very important thing

in winning World War II.

It was aimed to Hitler
and Japan, but...

we lied,

intentionally,

often,

powerfully.

That's the way the ball
game is played.

Richard Dolan: So what you find
is that you have gatekeepers

within the world
at the Media,

we have gatekeepers in
the world of academia,

who, their job

it's like sheep dogs:

guarding the flock.

Lee Spiegel: That is also
one of the reasons

why I don't think that there
will be disclosure

in my lifetime.

Travis Walton:
So many people think:

"Oh no, it wouldn't be that
harmful!", you know?

That everybody they know would
think this is great, you know

full disclosure.

But...

no,

if you look around, at
the institutions

the financial, religious,
social, more that are out there...

it would be extremely
destructive.

I mean, people would
not go to work

tomorrow.

The structure of energy,
finance,

the whole thing would
be turned on its head.

Stanton Friedman: I think every
government in the world has 3

major problems along these
lines regarding UFOs:

1) They'd like themselves
to figure out how it works

because it makes a great
weapons delivery system,

makes anything we're flying
look pretty naive

by comparison.

2) You want to make sure
that the other guy doesn't

figure out how to duplicate
their behavior

because then you have
a defense problem.

If he has something that
files like these things

we got a problem

because we can't handle it.

And 3) perhaps the
most important,

a kind of philosophical-political
problem:

as soon as it becomes
obvious to

the people on the planet

and widely accepted

that flying saucers real

and from off of the Earth,

there's going to be a push for
a view of man as earthlings,

the people on this planet

Instead of: "I am an American,
or Russian, or Chinese",

"I am an earthling."

There is no government
that wants

its citizens to hold

their primary allegiance
to the planet,

as oppose to the country.

Nobody wants to give-up
their power.

Richard Dolan: And that is
really how this system works.

Now there are a few
brave people

who are able to go
beyond that.

But if you are going
to go beyond it

you got to be brave and you
got to be prepared to fight,

you got to be prepared

to have

people like Philip J. Klass

go after you if you
become too good at it.

(car passing)

(indiscernible conversation)

Steve Pierce:
I hated Travis for a long time

after this because

my whole world was just...

just torn up...

and people...

thought that we were lying,

thought that we were crazy.

And "Why you sticking up with
Travis for all this time?"

"You know this really
didn't happen."

John Goulette:
It changed my like in a way

I am kinda sorry about.

You know, I had to leave here.

I can't stand there

and have somebody
call me a liar.

Travis Walton: People were
desperate to explain it away.

And some of it was very

simply fear-based,

You know?

People in the community
wanted reassurance

"This can't happen...can it?"

John Goulette: It's a really
strong religious community

and this kinda "messed up"
their whole program,

you know what I mean?

Their way of thinking
about it.

Steve Pierce: My mom
still don't believe it.

She thinks this is all
from the Devil.

Richard Dolan: When you think
about how significant it is

in our society,

the most important thing
that ever happens to you,

that really freaks you out

and you don't know how
to process it

and now you're not
able to talk

about it with anyone,

because you know

that they're going
to laugh at you,

that they are going to look
at you like you're crazy.

"Alien abduction, what's
wrong with you?"

Stanton Friedman:
This fear of ridicule

encourages people not
to report their cases.

I check my audiences, I say:

"How many people here

believe they've seen
what I would describe

as a flying saucer?"

And the hands go up at first...

like this, you know?

And I point and count

1, 2, 3, 4...

by the time I get
over there,

their hands go up vigorously.

10% of the people in
my audiences

believe they have seen one.

That is a lot.

Most of them think they
are the only ones there,

you know?

But then I ask:

"How many of you
reported what you saw?"

90% of the hands
go down.

So that is what we
are dealing with,

we don't get access to data

because people are
fearful of ridicule,

because even though
they are believers

they think somebody else,

everybody else, isn't.

Steve Pierce:
I've got a younger brother

that is really smart

and he works for a
college in New York...

and he doesn't
understand why

they pick people like us

instead of people like him.

You know what I mean?

Why would they come
to somebody that is a...

I don't wanna say

that word on camera.

Travis Walton:
"Redneck?"

Steve Pierce:
Yeah.

Travis Walton:
Yeah, you can say "redneck".

Steve Pierce:
A "redneck" instead

of "educated people".

Ben Hansen: There is some
fear and I think fear is the

basis of this.

But...

solely when people

don't understand
something

It is a natural human
tendency to mock.

Songs were written
about Travis,

various forms of ridicule.

And I think that, if
he would tell you

was almost, or
if not harder

than everything
that happened

in those few short days
that he was gone.

Kathleen Marden: From a
psychological perspective,

I can't imagine

what it would have
been like

for a young 22
year old man

working out with a
logging crew

in the woods,

to have undergone this

radically life-changing event.

Travis Walton: Its a net
negative, you know?

We lost our jobs in the
immediate aftermath of it.

You know? I definitely got
the feeling that

you know,

many opportunities
that I had in life

were forever closed to me

on account of having
had this happen.

Ben Hansen: He decides
to stay in Snowflake.

Everyone knows who he is,

what happened to him.

And...

from then on,
he is labeled

and identified...

in everything that
he does,

every job that he
goes and gets,

every friend and association.

So you can imagine

his whole self identity

is now related

to this abduction.

Travis Walton: There
were times over the years

where I thought:

you know, "If I could just
get this off my back",

any way I could,

not just clam up but
just tell them:

"Oh yeah, we were all
drunk that day!", you know?

Even though it is a lame
and silly thing to say

and it wouldn't fit with
any of the facts...

The people who were
so anxious

to hear something like that

would latch onto it

and leave us alone.

But I never did it.

Peter Robbins: He was
somebody I looked up to

because he had...

the courage

to speak about this.

And my sense hearing
him speak

was that Travis was
not comfortable.

He was not having
a good time,

he felt a sense of
responsibility...

that he had to do this.

Because it was important
and because it was true.

R. Leo Sprinkle:
We all have choices.

Travis, in my opinion

made the right choice.

He came forward.

Stanton Friedman:
I give him an A-plus rating

if you will, for integrity.

For intelligence,

for...

aplomb.

Being able to handle
himself under "fire".

How he could put up with
some of the debunkers,

I don't know,

because they're nasty.

I'm not sure I would
be able to.

David Jacobs:
Travis has withstood that

for most of his life now,

and as have the other
participants in this,

and they have all
maintained

the truthiness of their story
without embellishment,

all the way through
to the present day.

John Goulette:
I admire him and Mike

for all the time.

I got away from it,
you know?

I moved to a place where
nobody knew me.

Mike and Travis, you know,

they stood there and just
kept telling the truth.

You know what I mean?

Stood up there,
you know,

like all of us should have
done, I guess.

He is just one of
those people.

Ben Hansen: Travis became
kind of the poster child

for...

for people who have had
similar experiences.

It allowed them to
see somebody

who's overcome

the most intense ridicule,

and focus "you can"
in the public eye.

And to come out and stand
back up and say:

"Look, I did question everything
that I kind of knew about

you know, who I was and
how I fit into the universe,

but I put it back together...

and I am ok with it."

John Goulette: And now Steve
is doing quite a bit I guess.

Save Pierce:
What changed my feelings?

interviewer: Yeah, cause you

said you hated Travis
for a while

after this happened.

Steve Pierce: We're on tape here, dude.
[laughs]

Hm...

My wife and my kids.

They told me:

"You know, you got to forgive
Travis for what happened,

you can't blame him
for all this."

They believe that, you know,
it's time to heal.

You know, I have
a story to tell

and people should, you know,
should know about it.

If you don't come out and
tell your story,

somebody else is going
to tell it for you.

Ben Hansen: For me to see Travis
continue to go out and speak...

to reach out to people

when he could kind of just
brush it aside and say:

"I don't want to be
that guy anymore."

"I don't want to be know as
the guy who was abducted."

"I just want to
forget about it."

But instead he
embraced it,

and that speaks very
highly of him because

if not to serve him,

I think it has helped a lot
of other people.

Peter Robbins: He certainly
rose to the occasion.

He certainly rose
to the occasion,

and has to meet it

every single step
along the way.

And that, for me

is a mark of

fine and extraordinary
character,

decency and everything that

most good people should

be aspiring to and living a
decent and contributing life.

Travis Walton: There is a
degree of responsibility

to try and make something good
come of it, you know?

I certainly have to
accept the bad.

So if I can direct
what's happened

in a way that I can make
something good happen

in the world,

I am looking for it.

Travis Walton:
This was the road we took

on our way to work everyday.

We would all meet like,
at Mike's house,

sometimes he would go around
and pick everybody up.

We worked on the contract
a great deal

and much of it had already
been cut but,

much of the...

allotted time had
already elapsed.

So we were under pressure
on the dealine

and we extended

our working hours

to try to get it all done before

the snow came.

A lot of this drive
looks the way it

looked back then

but then there's
other parts that

have been changed

by the "Rodeo-chediski" fire,

which burnt up

over half a million
acres of forest.

At that time it was
the biggest...

recorded fire in
Arizona history.

We spent so many
back-breaking hours

improving this forest

and then have all that work
just go up in smoke

because of just one little
careless moment...

a hundred miles from here.

Turkey-spring contract
is pretty much

everything on our left.

All the way over
to that far ridge

that is all burned off.

And I think there's one
more pass that,

was the ridge where
we were at that day.

Keep an eye out for
the wild horses,

they like this area.

Okay, turn right here
on the left.

We won't be able to drive
all the way up to

the site because
it's all been closed,

but we can walk there now.

I've been struggling to
come to terms with this

and especially to try
to understand,

or take some meaning,

at least personal meaning.

You know, after
4 decades

I've come to...

a little different take

than I had initially.

I took extreme exception

to what had happened.

You know, the fear,
the horror of it all.

It was only gradually
did I just

come to realize that

they didn't

just bring me a board

to do experiments on me

or just torment me

to see...

what pain does to humans

or something of that nature.

Most likely...

you can infer that...

that, with that amount
of energy hitting me,

it would have been
probably fatal.

And that they probably
took me aboard

in order to revive me,

to correct the damage.

Travis Walton:
I don't blame you for doing...

Steve Pierce: I don't blame
Mike for taking off either

because he had
all of us others

to worry about too,
you know?

If he would have went

to my mom's house that night

and said that I was
zapped by a UFO,

my mom would have
shot him

off the porch.

Travis Walton:
I think they understood

that I was getting too close

in a way that was putting

myself in great danger.

They were trying to
move the the craft

a little bit out of range,

before I got myself hurt.

And it was too late,

the energy hitted me

and damage was done,

possibly cardiac
arrest or worse.

And so,

these beings were in
a position to, or

they could leave a body there

or they had the
responsibility,

being a part of
this accident,

to do their best

to try to bring me aboard and

revive me.

Ken Peterson:
My big theory about

what it was all about,

that it was an...

intentional display of the

Mythology of
the Phoenix.

The death part of
the display

was, you know,
him getting knocked

to the gound like that

making some of the
crew members even

think he might be dead.

'Course all many other people,

during the 5 days

he was gone,

thought that he was dead.

Figurative rebirth is when...

they dropped him off

right outside Heber here.

John Goulette:
I tried to convince myself that

Travis actually was killed.

But they picked him up

to fix him up.

So it had...

a happy ending to it.

You know what I mean?

They didn't just pick him up

to mess with him.

They picked him up
to help him.

Travis Walton: I am actually
fortunate, if that was the case,

that they did so,

because the nearest hospital

was over an hour away,

and none of the crew

knew CPR or anything
like that.

Steve Pierce:
When you hit the ground,

you, I mean, you went "thunk".

You know?

Travis Walton:
Limp, huh?

Steve Pierce:
Yea, you went, "tew tew",

you bounced...

and then you hit
the ground.

Travis Walton:
When I finally...

came to rest,

was I face up or face down?

Steve Pierce:
You were like this: [face up]

Travis Walton:
Dead man, huh?

Steve Pierce: Yeah.

We saw something
go across the sky

Travis Walton:
Yeah.

Steve Pierce: So we
thought it was gone.

So we were more
worried about coming

back and seeing you

lying there dead.

Travis Walton:
Charcoal?

Steve Pierce:
Yes.

There would be
nothing left of you.

That was what was
our biggest fear that.

Richard Dolan: You see the
process of this, of this...

person who was once
a very young man,

who's now more mature
and had time to

reflect on this
over his life.

And he is still.

You really get the
sense that he is

still trying to process this:

"What happened to me?"

"Will I ever get closure on it?"

Ken Peterson:
I really believe that...

it was done on purpose and...

someday we are going to find...

find out why.

The first time I came

out here to camp...

It was restricted.

Nobody, soon after
the fire,

nobody was supposed
to be here.

Travis Walton:
Did you feel any fear at night?

Ken Peterson:
No.

Travis Walton: Not even about
bears or anything like that?

Ken Peterson: No, I was...

actually in the back of
my truck, the camper. [laughs]

Travis Walton:
Oh, pretty safe.

Ken Peterson: I wasn't camping
out on the ground.

Travis Walton: Did you,
like, stay up late at night?

Ken Peterson:
No. Actually I was...

drinking...

drinking a little bit. [laughs]

I guess, that helped
me through it.

Travis Walton:
I don't... I didn't know

you'd ever be a drinker. [laughs]

That must have been
a phase

you were going through, huh?

Ken Peterson:
Yeah.

Mike Rogers: There
have been several times

in the last 40 years,

I thought it would just

fade off. You know?

Like things do, but it hasn't.

It has just been
the reverse.

Travis's name is just known
internationally and...

my name isn't, I think,

but it is in association.

Travis Walton: Some of the
crew have intimated that

they kind of wish that
it happened to them.

I think, some of it is
based on, you know,

a kind of a...

a wistful desire

to have the kind of insight
that I've gained

from having this experience.

Some of it, maybe, even
connected with, you know,

the attention that came my way.

I'd certainly be happier
without it.

I have responded:

"You know, guys, you know...

you would not want this
to happen to you."

I wouldn't wish this
off on anybody

other than some UFO skeptics.

They would be served well

by having it had
happen to them.

Travis Walton:
When you did come... did it...

refresh your memory?

Did it like, bring those...

the feeling

that we had back then?

Ken Peterson:
Yeah, it's...

it's kind of a....

kind of an invigorating
type of thing.

Times of emotion.

Little bit of the bad
memories of it,

parts of it.

This is a special spot for me.

I mean, what an experience!

Travis Walton:
You know, the skeptics who say:

"Why if they are really
coming here

don't they just land on the
White House Lawn?"

Well...

they are not going
with open contact

and they are not going
with total cloacking.

So what's going on?

I think:
a conditioning process.

I get email after email
of people saying:

"Give me the GPS coordinates!"

I am not giving that to
nobody, except...

them there [film crew].

Ken Peterson: Here the big concern
was, you know, was fire.

Starting a fire and burning
the place down.

It happened naturally.

Travis Walton:
Well that was one concern.

I was concerned that
people would cut up

the trees for souvenirs...

then there would be nothing
to do research on.

Or even people doing
something to try to...

you know...

cast doubt on things.

We're being gradually
conditioned in a way

that's the least destructive
possible.

So I think, you know,

in a way, by talking about this,

I am playing a part in that.

That people need to
come to that realization,

in a way that they can handle.

Richard Dolan: When you look
at the Travis Walton case,

it really is a situation of:
"the more you look

the more you find".

It's been 40 years now...

you've got a very
credible subject

in Travis Walton.

You've got 6
credible witnesses

You have a situation
where the debunkers

have tried to throw this out

and they failed every single time.

It's stood the
test of time.

Ken Peterson:
And it is just right at the

top of the rise.

Kind of in a saddle...

In the saddle of these
two hills coming down.

Yeah, its got to be right
in here someplace.

Definitely the spot, Travis.

Travis Walton:
Yeah.

Interviewer:
So Ken, how does it feel,

38 years later,

the first time you and
Travis are back?

Ken Peterson: I think he
deserves a hug on this day.

38 years, we had

that tremendous experience.

Travis Walton:
It's just...

you know, the other day I was

talking about this and I
said 28 years

and everybody
hastened to remind me:

"No, it was 38 years!"

You know, it is just incredible

to think that much
time has gone by.

I tell people, in spite
of the fact

that I have come to
terms with it better

and realized that
it wasn't as

malevolent as I first
thought it was.

That...

even now...

I'd rather it never happened.
You know?

Interviewer [1975]:
"Travis, what would you like

for your future?"

"What would you like to...

have come of this?"

Travis Walton [1975]:
"Just acceptance of myself

and the future, I...

I have had a lot of offers

of people trying to
turn it into some kind

of profitable thing, but...

I have no interest

in any of those
kind of offers."

"I just want the
truth to be known."

"I have intentions to cooperate
with research,

with

reputable men, that...

you know...

genuinely

scientifically interested."

Interviewer [1975]:
"Do you wish that

it never happened to you?"

Travis Walton [1975]:
"Well, hindsight

I don't know...

what happened, happened."