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1
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- In this book,
I will take you, the reader,
2
00:00:40,341 --> 00:00:43,308
With me into the secret
inner world of the pimp.
3
00:00:46,613 --> 00:00:51,383
I will lay bare my life
and thoughts as a pimp.
4
00:00:51,385 --> 00:00:54,386
The account of my brutality
and cunning as a pimp
5
00:00:54,388 --> 00:00:56,321
Will fill many of you
with revulsion.
6
00:00:59,192 --> 00:01:00,826
I regret
that it is impossible
7
00:01:00,828 --> 00:01:03,328
To recount to you all
of my experiences as a pimp.
8
00:01:06,266 --> 00:01:09,234
Perhaps my remorse
for my ghastly life
9
00:01:09,236 --> 00:01:12,071
Will diminish to the degree
10
00:01:12,073 --> 00:01:14,206
That within this one book
11
00:01:14,208 --> 00:01:16,308
I have been allowed
to purge myself.
12
00:01:27,554 --> 00:01:31,623
- If prostitution is known
as the oldest profession,
13
00:01:31,625 --> 00:01:34,460
Then pimping
is the second oldest profession.
14
00:01:37,630 --> 00:01:39,565
- Right now, it's been
taken out of context,
15
00:01:39,567 --> 00:01:44,269
Because mainstream has adapted
and adopted that word
16
00:01:44,271 --> 00:01:46,205
And adopted
the formula of pimping
17
00:01:46,207 --> 00:01:47,306
And thinkin'
they know what it is.
18
00:01:47,308 --> 00:01:50,509
But pimping is a player
19
00:01:50,511 --> 00:01:53,512
Sending a bitch to the corner
to get money.
20
00:01:53,514 --> 00:01:55,347
- There's a fascination
21
00:01:55,349 --> 00:01:58,484
With any time you don't
have to work for money.
22
00:01:58,486 --> 00:02:01,120
Whoever's doing
the least amount
23
00:02:01,122 --> 00:02:04,189
For some cash,
that is fascinating.
24
00:02:04,191 --> 00:02:05,891
It's, like, what--
what's he do?
25
00:02:05,893 --> 00:02:08,694
She does the work,
he gets--
26
00:02:08,696 --> 00:02:13,265
I gotta figure out how
to get into this, you know.
27
00:02:13,267 --> 00:02:15,467
- You had to know
how to control
28
00:02:15,469 --> 00:02:17,469
And how to operate a stable,
29
00:02:17,471 --> 00:02:20,906
How to dazzle, befuddle,
30
00:02:20,908 --> 00:02:23,475
Bewitch, entrance,
31
00:02:23,477 --> 00:02:25,511
And hypnotize a woman.
32
00:02:25,513 --> 00:02:28,313
And not only one woman,
but eight, nine,
33
00:02:28,315 --> 00:02:32,417
And to keep them
in harmonious effort.
34
00:02:32,419 --> 00:02:34,820
And if you think
that isn't a job, my friend,
35
00:02:34,822 --> 00:02:38,223
You ask any married man.
36
00:02:38,225 --> 00:02:39,525
- Iceberg slim is the name
37
00:02:39,527 --> 00:02:42,461
That is synonymous
with the pimp game.
38
00:02:42,463 --> 00:02:46,732
He's a writer
who lived an incredible life
39
00:02:46,734 --> 00:02:50,435
And wrote books
that I grew up on.
40
00:02:50,437 --> 00:02:52,905
Every single time
I talked to him,
41
00:02:52,907 --> 00:02:55,340
Because he was my god.
42
00:02:55,342 --> 00:02:58,343
- Runs the ladies,
has the rap,
43
00:02:58,345 --> 00:03:00,779
The clothes, the jewelry,
the drugs,
44
00:03:00,781 --> 00:03:02,314
Has done time.
45
00:03:02,316 --> 00:03:04,616
Street cred
by the truckload.
46
00:03:04,618 --> 00:03:08,220
- Iceberg slim was a guy
who actually lived the life
47
00:03:08,222 --> 00:03:10,889
That he was writing about.
48
00:03:10,891 --> 00:03:14,860
- Pimpmight be
my favorite book of all time.
49
00:03:14,862 --> 00:03:15,961
- Yeah, I checked that out.
50
00:03:15,963 --> 00:03:17,796
The p-I-m-p.
51
00:03:17,798 --> 00:03:20,599
Pimp had a big impact
on the game,
52
00:03:20,601 --> 00:03:24,436
To give basic instructions
of how to play the game.
53
00:03:24,438 --> 00:03:26,238
If was just amazing,
the thought of that.
54
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:27,573
It was just fascinating.
55
00:03:27,575 --> 00:03:30,309
- He would paint
beautiful pictures
56
00:03:30,311 --> 00:03:32,277
Using ugly paint, you know.
57
00:03:32,279 --> 00:03:33,912
You know, he was, like,
looking around
58
00:03:33,914 --> 00:03:35,814
And just finding the beauty
and the appreciation
59
00:03:35,816 --> 00:03:37,616
Of wherever you are,
60
00:03:37,618 --> 00:03:40,452
Be it in the ghetto
or a high class neighborhood
61
00:03:40,454 --> 00:03:42,588
And showing that
it's okay to stumble,
62
00:03:42,590 --> 00:03:44,423
But it's not okay to fall,
you know.
63
00:03:44,425 --> 00:03:46,858
Always get back up
and you keep going.
64
00:03:46,860 --> 00:03:49,828
- His books told the truth
about the life.
65
00:03:49,830 --> 00:03:52,965
There was no one more eloquent
than iceberg slim,
66
00:03:52,967 --> 00:03:56,435
Or no one more poetic
or more accurate
67
00:03:56,437 --> 00:04:00,472
In terms of describing
where he came from.
68
00:04:00,474 --> 00:04:01,907
- I was in a bar,
69
00:04:01,909 --> 00:04:05,844
And there was a fella
arguing with another fella.
70
00:04:05,846 --> 00:04:09,414
And this fella
drew a gun
71
00:04:09,416 --> 00:04:11,283
And fired at the fella.
72
00:04:11,285 --> 00:04:14,386
The bullet
went through my hat.
73
00:04:14,388 --> 00:04:16,822
I was full of cocaine
at the time
74
00:04:16,824 --> 00:04:18,690
And I didn't react,
75
00:04:18,692 --> 00:04:21,927
So my friend said,
man, you were so cool.
76
00:04:21,929 --> 00:04:24,930
He says, you were icy.
77
00:04:24,932 --> 00:04:27,699
And they called me
iceberg slim.
78
00:04:27,701 --> 00:04:29,501
♪ thick thighs,
but she full of surprises ♪
79
00:04:29,503 --> 00:04:31,670
♪ I swear
this bitch is shady ♪
80
00:04:31,672 --> 00:04:32,738
♪ it's what I know
81
00:04:32,740 --> 00:04:34,773
♪ sex on her mind
all the time ♪
82
00:04:34,775 --> 00:04:36,575
♪ and you think
that that's your baby ♪
83
00:04:36,577 --> 00:04:37,809
♪ you don't know
84
00:04:37,811 --> 00:04:39,745
♪ you a good guy
that's living a lie ♪
85
00:04:39,747 --> 00:04:41,546
♪ but she dove
and played your safety ♪
86
00:04:41,548 --> 00:04:42,714
♪ that's what I know
87
00:04:42,716 --> 00:04:44,650
♪ if you cool
and she's satisfied ♪
88
00:04:44,652 --> 00:04:46,652
♪ how come that bitch
just paged me? ♪
89
00:04:46,654 --> 00:04:48,353
♪ you don't know
90
00:04:48,355 --> 00:04:52,591
- When you're dealing
with pimps and hos,
91
00:04:52,593 --> 00:04:54,693
They have to look the part.
92
00:04:54,695 --> 00:04:57,396
So as a kid, you know,
93
00:04:57,398 --> 00:05:00,499
Some preacher walks in,
it's, like, yeah, whatever.
94
00:05:00,501 --> 00:05:04,002
Some pimp walks in,
and, you know,
95
00:05:04,004 --> 00:05:06,004
You could hear a church mouse
piss on the carpet
96
00:05:06,006 --> 00:05:09,374
It's so quiet.
97
00:05:09,376 --> 00:05:13,045
- The first stages
of my own street poisoning
98
00:05:13,047 --> 00:05:15,314
Happened when I was a boy.
99
00:05:15,316 --> 00:05:16,448
My mother had a beauty shop
100
00:05:16,450 --> 00:05:20,319
And she catered
to a colony
101
00:05:20,321 --> 00:05:23,488
Of black hookers and pimps.
102
00:05:23,490 --> 00:05:26,692
And these fellas
would be decked out
103
00:05:26,694 --> 00:05:29,061
In all their finery
with all the diamonds
104
00:05:29,063 --> 00:05:31,530
And all the rest of it,
and of course their women.
105
00:05:31,532 --> 00:05:34,866
- A pimp
was held in regard,
106
00:05:34,868 --> 00:05:36,868
Like an athlete
or entertainer.
107
00:05:36,870 --> 00:05:42,474
He wasn't like an advocate
of peace or violence.
108
00:05:42,476 --> 00:05:46,578
He was more of less
like a hero.
109
00:05:46,580 --> 00:05:48,847
- A pimp is judged
by his flash.
110
00:05:48,849 --> 00:05:50,549
You know what I mean?
111
00:05:50,551 --> 00:05:52,951
His cadillac, his house,
his jewelry,
112
00:05:52,953 --> 00:05:54,686
His clothes.
113
00:05:54,688 --> 00:05:57,422
That's how you size up
a pimp economy.
114
00:05:57,424 --> 00:05:59,758
- Well groomed,
smelled good.
115
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,727
You know, everything,
116
00:06:01,729 --> 00:06:03,528
'cause you're trying
to outmatch this female.
117
00:06:03,530 --> 00:06:04,863
You want that woman
to look at you
118
00:06:04,865 --> 00:06:07,499
And say this is the finest man
I've ever seen.
119
00:06:07,501 --> 00:06:09,968
- I mean,
immaculate dresser.
120
00:06:09,970 --> 00:06:13,538
I mean, hair coiffed.
121
00:06:13,540 --> 00:06:15,941
Brand new cadillac
every year.
122
00:06:15,943 --> 00:06:17,676
When you're a kid, you know,
123
00:06:17,678 --> 00:06:20,946
If somebody had a brand new
cadillac every year,
124
00:06:20,948 --> 00:06:23,448
He was something.
125
00:06:25,918 --> 00:06:28,687
- And that was the first time
that I was impressed.
126
00:06:28,689 --> 00:06:30,722
Because you must remember,
127
00:06:30,724 --> 00:06:33,425
Back in those days,
if you were black.
128
00:06:33,427 --> 00:06:35,694
Your opportunities
were so narrow.
129
00:06:49,609 --> 00:06:51,710
- A black person
born during that time,
130
00:06:51,712 --> 00:06:55,614
What you were dealing with
was almost beyond words.
131
00:06:55,616 --> 00:06:57,949
Those race riots in chicago
132
00:06:57,951 --> 00:07:01,720
Started because a black kid
133
00:07:01,722 --> 00:07:06,525
Swam into an area
that was whites only.
134
00:07:15,968 --> 00:07:18,670
- Since the time when
she was six months pregnant,
135
00:07:18,672 --> 00:07:21,473
My father had begun
to show his true colors.
136
00:07:21,475 --> 00:07:24,042
After my birth,
he got worse
137
00:07:24,044 --> 00:07:27,045
And had the stupid gall
to suggest to mama
138
00:07:27,047 --> 00:07:29,714
That I be put on
a catholic church doorstep.
139
00:07:29,716 --> 00:07:31,950
Mama naturally refused,
140
00:07:31,952 --> 00:07:35,053
So he hurled me
against the wall in disgust.
141
00:07:35,055 --> 00:07:38,757
I survived it
and he left us.
142
00:07:38,759 --> 00:07:39,891
- He came from
a single parent home.
143
00:07:39,893 --> 00:07:42,060
His mom, you know,
by hook or by crook,
144
00:07:42,062 --> 00:07:43,595
She needed to put food
on the table, you know,
145
00:07:43,597 --> 00:07:44,796
And to put food
on the table,
146
00:07:44,798 --> 00:07:46,731
She had to be out and about
in the world to do so.
147
00:07:46,733 --> 00:07:48,200
And it was just unfortunate,
you know,
148
00:07:48,202 --> 00:07:50,702
That she, you know,
entrusted her baby boy
149
00:07:50,704 --> 00:07:52,137
Into the hands
of the wrong person.
150
00:07:52,139 --> 00:07:53,772
- In the opening of pimp,
151
00:07:53,774 --> 00:07:59,010
The way that he describes
his initial foray
152
00:07:59,012 --> 00:08:00,846
Into the world of pimping
153
00:08:00,848 --> 00:08:03,148
Is through
being sexually abused
154
00:08:03,150 --> 00:08:06,952
By his babysitter maude.
155
00:08:06,954 --> 00:08:10,522
- I remember more vividly
the moist odorous darkness
156
00:08:10,524 --> 00:08:13,492
And the bristle-like hairs
tickling my face
157
00:08:13,494 --> 00:08:16,761
And most vividly,
I can remember my panic
158
00:08:16,763 --> 00:08:19,197
When in the wild moment
of her climax
159
00:08:19,199 --> 00:08:21,766
She would savagely
jerk my head even tighter
160
00:08:21,768 --> 00:08:25,136
Into the hairy maw.
161
00:08:25,138 --> 00:08:26,838
- Right off the bat,
162
00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:28,773
He's subjected or dominated
163
00:08:28,775 --> 00:08:31,810
By a forceful woman
who sexualizes him.
164
00:08:31,812 --> 00:08:36,815
He's taught about the whole
nature of sexual dominance
165
00:08:36,817 --> 00:08:39,751
And then later,
he has negative experiences
166
00:08:39,753 --> 00:08:41,086
With his mother.
167
00:08:41,088 --> 00:08:45,624
She hooks up with a man
named henry upshaw,
168
00:08:45,626 --> 00:08:48,260
- A successful man,
loved her to death.
169
00:08:48,262 --> 00:08:50,695
Loved her and loved her son.
170
00:08:50,697 --> 00:08:53,732
It's the only man
in iceberg's life
171
00:08:53,734 --> 00:08:55,867
That he talks about,
identifies with
172
00:08:55,869 --> 00:08:59,271
And talks about in not only
a respectful way,
173
00:08:59,273 --> 00:09:02,107
But someone who really
touched his heart and soul,
174
00:09:02,109 --> 00:09:04,142
Because he really cared
about him
175
00:09:04,144 --> 00:09:05,944
As a human being.
176
00:09:05,946 --> 00:09:08,179
With henry upshaw,
things were idyllic
177
00:09:08,181 --> 00:09:11,683
Until his mother
met a con man named steve.
178
00:09:11,685 --> 00:09:14,953
- He was one
of mary's customers
179
00:09:14,955 --> 00:09:16,888
In her beauty shop.
180
00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:20,559
He was
a real slick hustler,
181
00:09:20,561 --> 00:09:24,296
And he essentially
hustled her
182
00:09:24,298 --> 00:09:30,001
And convinced her
to leave with him to chicago.
183
00:09:30,003 --> 00:09:35,307
- His mother falls for the con
on henry upshaw
184
00:09:35,309 --> 00:09:38,810
And fucks up everything.
185
00:09:38,812 --> 00:09:41,146
Fucks up everything.
Fucks up all the stability.
186
00:09:41,148 --> 00:09:44,115
Fucks up, like,
his, like, one shot.
187
00:09:44,117 --> 00:09:46,251
Really.
It's the only shot he's got.
188
00:09:46,253 --> 00:09:48,219
- What's so upsetting
to iceberg
189
00:09:48,221 --> 00:09:50,622
Is not just
that his mom
190
00:09:50,624 --> 00:09:53,625
Has ripped him away
from a mooring,
191
00:09:53,627 --> 00:09:55,093
From a foundation
that he's found,
192
00:09:55,095 --> 00:09:56,261
But the way she does it.
193
00:09:58,297 --> 00:09:59,998
- I can never forget
that morning
194
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,800
When mama had finished
packing our clothes
195
00:10:01,802 --> 00:10:04,135
And henry lost
his inner fight
196
00:10:04,137 --> 00:10:06,004
For his pride and dignity.
197
00:10:06,006 --> 00:10:08,073
He fell down on his knees
198
00:10:08,075 --> 00:10:09,841
And bawled
like a scalded child,
199
00:10:09,843 --> 00:10:12,377
Pleading with mama
not to leave him.
200
00:10:12,379 --> 00:10:13,979
I will never forget
her face,
201
00:10:13,981 --> 00:10:18,016
As cold as an executioner's,
which she was
202
00:10:18,018 --> 00:10:20,885
As she kicked
and struggled loose from him.
203
00:10:20,887 --> 00:10:23,021
Then, with an awful grin
on her face,
204
00:10:23,023 --> 00:10:25,890
She lied and said,
henry, honey,
205
00:10:25,892 --> 00:10:27,892
I just want
to get away for a while.
206
00:10:27,894 --> 00:10:30,028
Darling, we'll be back.
207
00:10:32,231 --> 00:10:38,269
- To see his mother betray
the only man he ever loved,
208
00:10:38,271 --> 00:10:41,306
He learned that there's
one thing I'm not gonna be
209
00:10:41,308 --> 00:10:43,208
Is those guys.
210
00:10:43,210 --> 00:10:47,012
I'm gonna get her
before she gets me,
211
00:10:47,014 --> 00:10:48,913
'cause I know
she's gonna betray me.
212
00:10:48,915 --> 00:10:52,651
- She then conspires
with steve
213
00:10:52,653 --> 00:10:56,087
To take off
her ex-husband's loot.
214
00:10:56,089 --> 00:10:58,857
- From that, he lost
all respect for women,
215
00:10:58,859 --> 00:11:01,359
In a sense.
216
00:11:01,361 --> 00:11:06,364
It's, like, even you
fell for this shit?
217
00:11:06,366 --> 00:11:09,401
And in a sense,
she created the pimp.
218
00:11:09,403 --> 00:11:10,869
- When the money runs out
219
00:11:10,871 --> 00:11:12,871
And she's essentially
outlived her usefulness,
220
00:11:12,873 --> 00:11:14,072
Steve starts to show
his true colors
221
00:11:14,074 --> 00:11:15,306
And he starts
kicking her ass.
222
00:11:15,308 --> 00:11:16,708
And this steve is, like,
223
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:17,842
One of the cruelest
motherfuckers
224
00:11:17,844 --> 00:11:19,010
I've ever seen in a book.
225
00:11:19,012 --> 00:11:20,779
Like, he murders
this kitten,
226
00:11:20,781 --> 00:11:21,946
Like, right in front of 'em.
227
00:11:21,948 --> 00:11:23,381
Like, who does that?
228
00:11:23,383 --> 00:11:28,253
- Steve had stomped on three
and a half years of our lives.
229
00:11:28,255 --> 00:11:30,722
I would soon be 14.
230
00:11:30,724 --> 00:11:33,191
On August 4th, my birthday,
231
00:11:33,193 --> 00:11:34,793
Mama came home
from the hospital
232
00:11:34,795 --> 00:11:37,395
With her broken jaw wired
233
00:11:37,397 --> 00:11:39,764
And her body
covered with bruises.
234
00:11:39,766 --> 00:11:42,901
Steve attacked her
with his fists and feet
235
00:11:42,903 --> 00:11:45,003
And then escaped
through the grimy catacombs
236
00:11:45,005 --> 00:11:47,806
Of the ghetto.
237
00:11:47,808 --> 00:11:49,474
- She was alone
in the streets,
238
00:11:49,476 --> 00:11:51,342
Trying to find work.
239
00:11:51,344 --> 00:11:54,045
We're talking about
during the depression
240
00:11:54,047 --> 00:11:55,980
When people--
not only black people--
241
00:11:55,982 --> 00:11:58,149
People were suffering.
242
00:11:58,151 --> 00:12:01,753
She left iceberg
by himself a lot,
243
00:12:01,755 --> 00:12:05,056
Isolated in this
little place that they had.
244
00:12:05,058 --> 00:12:06,858
He discovered the streets.
245
00:12:09,161 --> 00:12:11,162
- The slide was greased.
246
00:12:11,164 --> 00:12:13,765
I was starting
my long plunge
247
00:12:13,767 --> 00:12:16,000
To the very bottom
of the grim pit.
248
00:12:16,002 --> 00:12:19,170
My trip downward
really was cinched
249
00:12:19,172 --> 00:12:22,173
When I met a petty hustler
who was very likeable,
250
00:12:22,175 --> 00:12:24,175
And we became pals.
251
00:12:24,177 --> 00:12:29,114
My hustler pal
was called party time.
252
00:12:29,116 --> 00:12:31,916
He had a head
full of wild risky hustles
253
00:12:31,918 --> 00:12:33,384
He wanted to try.
254
00:12:33,386 --> 00:12:36,154
He needed a partner.
255
00:12:36,156 --> 00:12:38,223
- Party time, he was this
real knowledgeable brother,
256
00:12:38,225 --> 00:12:40,992
So he was able to give ice
the rundown.
257
00:12:40,994 --> 00:12:42,961
He was able to break it down
into the simplest terms,
258
00:12:42,963 --> 00:12:44,963
Like, you know, and not
become cross with him
259
00:12:44,965 --> 00:12:46,397
If he didn't
catch on right away.
260
00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:49,901
- Even though
I had started to rot inside
261
00:12:49,903 --> 00:12:51,202
From the street poisoning,
262
00:12:51,204 --> 00:12:54,372
Amazingly, at 15,
I graduated from high school
263
00:12:54,374 --> 00:12:57,142
With a 98.4 average.
264
00:12:57,144 --> 00:13:00,879
- I got a scholarship
to go to college,
265
00:13:00,881 --> 00:13:04,315
And I got it by daydreaming,
266
00:13:04,317 --> 00:13:07,318
But I was able to retain
enough of the information
267
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,854
So that
the black tuskegee club
268
00:13:09,856 --> 00:13:13,158
Sent me to tuskegee
during the depression.
269
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,094
- This is the home
of booker t. Washington,
270
00:13:16,096 --> 00:13:20,331
One of the most powerful
black leaders ever.
271
00:13:20,333 --> 00:13:23,234
- Immediately, because I was
already street poisoned,
272
00:13:23,236 --> 00:13:26,004
I started bootlegging
on campus.
273
00:13:26,006 --> 00:13:28,506
In alabama, okay?
274
00:13:28,508 --> 00:13:31,509
So I got expelled.
I was sent home.
275
00:13:31,511 --> 00:13:33,411
So my mother sat down,
276
00:13:33,413 --> 00:13:37,282
And her words of wisdom,
come back to me now.
277
00:13:37,284 --> 00:13:39,517
She says, bobby,
apparently,
278
00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:45,423
You like to run
and associate with bad people,
279
00:13:45,425 --> 00:13:47,425
With street people.
280
00:13:47,427 --> 00:13:51,095
She says you can become
a criminal lawyer,
281
00:13:51,097 --> 00:13:53,264
She says,
and make 'em pay you.
282
00:13:53,266 --> 00:13:56,201
She said, bobby,
get your education.
283
00:13:56,203 --> 00:13:59,204
Become a criminal lawyer
and get a license
284
00:13:59,206 --> 00:14:01,072
To associate with the people
285
00:14:01,074 --> 00:14:04,342
That you admire
and like so much.
286
00:14:04,344 --> 00:14:08,947
Have you ever heard anything
more wise than that?
287
00:14:11,250 --> 00:14:13,418
- 1937.
288
00:14:13,420 --> 00:14:17,155
He's out of tuskegee.
He's in milwaukee.
289
00:14:17,157 --> 00:14:21,893
He comes across a woman
named pepper ibbetts.
290
00:14:21,895 --> 00:14:24,095
Bobby beck thought he was
the slickest guy on earth,
291
00:14:24,097 --> 00:14:26,297
But as slick
as he thought he was,
292
00:14:26,299 --> 00:14:28,132
Pepper ibbetts
was even slicker.
293
00:14:28,134 --> 00:14:30,235
As fast
as he thought he was,
294
00:14:30,237 --> 00:14:32,237
She was 10 times faster.
295
00:14:32,239 --> 00:14:33,605
She was older than he was.
296
00:14:33,607 --> 00:14:36,007
She was an ex-prostitute.
297
00:14:36,009 --> 00:14:38,109
She had been around.
She had married a white guy.
298
00:14:38,111 --> 00:14:39,444
She had money.
299
00:14:39,446 --> 00:14:41,279
She introduced him
to cocaine.
300
00:14:41,281 --> 00:14:44,215
She turned him out.
301
00:14:44,217 --> 00:14:46,217
- I was just a hep punk.
302
00:14:46,219 --> 00:14:48,353
I wasn't in her league.
303
00:14:48,355 --> 00:14:51,623
That freak bitch
cajoled and persuaded me
304
00:14:51,625 --> 00:14:54,259
To do everything
in the sexual book.
305
00:14:54,261 --> 00:14:56,628
What a thrill
for a dog like her
306
00:14:56,630 --> 00:14:59,664
To turn out
a tender fool like me.
307
00:14:59,666 --> 00:15:00,999
If pepper had lived
308
00:15:01,001 --> 00:15:03,234
In the old biblical city
of sodom,
309
00:15:03,236 --> 00:15:07,171
The citizens would have
stoned her to death.
310
00:15:07,173 --> 00:15:08,940
- She had his nose wide open
311
00:15:08,942 --> 00:15:10,508
And she had him jumping out
the window, so to speak,
312
00:15:10,510 --> 00:15:12,043
And doing things
that he normally
313
00:15:12,045 --> 00:15:13,278
Probably wouldn't have done.
314
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,280
- He later got double-crossed
into prison,
315
00:15:15,282 --> 00:15:18,483
It was pepper
and a cop named delansky,
316
00:15:18,485 --> 00:15:20,585
Along with
an unknown heist man.
317
00:15:20,587 --> 00:15:23,922
He got charged with
accessory to robbery.
318
00:15:23,924 --> 00:15:26,057
- An 18-year-old black man
319
00:15:26,059 --> 00:15:29,427
Being sent to reformatory
back in the 1930s and 40s
320
00:15:29,429 --> 00:15:31,095
Would have been
very, very likely
321
00:15:31,097 --> 00:15:33,197
Subjected
to all sorts of racism.
322
00:15:33,199 --> 00:15:35,300
At that time,
many of the guards,
323
00:15:35,302 --> 00:15:38,236
Or probably most of them
would have been white.
324
00:15:38,238 --> 00:15:40,338
They knew that
they could push them around,
325
00:15:40,340 --> 00:15:43,241
Perhaps
physically abuse them.
326
00:15:43,243 --> 00:15:45,977
He probably got treated
very, very poorly.
327
00:15:45,979 --> 00:15:48,680
- It was there,
in the dormitory,
328
00:15:48,682 --> 00:15:51,983
That I got the insatiable
desire to pimp.
329
00:15:51,985 --> 00:15:53,451
I was a member of a clique
330
00:15:53,453 --> 00:15:56,154
That talked about nothing
except whores and pimping.
331
00:15:56,156 --> 00:16:00,358
I began to feel
a new slickness and hardness.
332
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:01,426
- He's like a sponge.
333
00:16:01,428 --> 00:16:02,994
He's soaking up
all these stories
334
00:16:02,996 --> 00:16:05,129
And all the game these
different guys are running down,
335
00:16:05,131 --> 00:16:06,965
And he's plucking out
the best parts
336
00:16:06,967 --> 00:16:08,466
To apply to what
he's trying to do.
337
00:16:08,468 --> 00:16:11,469
- He wanted to master
manipulating the psychology
338
00:16:11,471 --> 00:16:13,338
Of the hos,
of the women,
339
00:16:13,340 --> 00:16:15,974
When he started to realize
that the best pimps--
340
00:16:15,976 --> 00:16:18,443
That is to say
the most successful ones--
341
00:16:18,445 --> 00:16:20,745
Were the ones with the coldest,
with the least emotion.
342
00:16:20,747 --> 00:16:22,447
The real iceberg heart.
343
00:16:22,449 --> 00:16:27,251
- With good time,
I was free, slick, and bitter.
344
00:16:27,253 --> 00:16:29,554
No more small towns for me.
345
00:16:29,556 --> 00:16:32,357
I was going to the city
to get my degree in pimping.
346
00:16:40,032 --> 00:16:43,167
When you're black,
my friend,
347
00:16:43,169 --> 00:16:45,536
And you get twisted,
348
00:16:45,538 --> 00:16:48,740
One's ego
349
00:16:48,742 --> 00:16:53,745
Needed to be thought of
as great and grand,
350
00:16:53,747 --> 00:16:59,217
And this was a way to do it,
351
00:16:59,219 --> 00:17:01,185
To have
your own little kingdom.
352
00:17:04,623 --> 00:17:07,458
- When I first got
to chicago,
353
00:17:07,460 --> 00:17:09,627
I had this wild dream
354
00:17:09,629 --> 00:17:13,297
Of picking the brain
of the town's top pimp,
355
00:17:13,299 --> 00:17:14,732
And eventually I did.
356
00:17:14,734 --> 00:17:17,402
In retrospect,
I suppose I could say
357
00:17:17,404 --> 00:17:22,473
That I wanted to be
like god
358
00:17:22,475 --> 00:17:24,275
For a whore, you see.
359
00:17:27,613 --> 00:17:29,714
- Chicago at that
period of time
360
00:17:29,716 --> 00:17:32,683
Was profoundly saturated
361
00:17:32,685 --> 00:17:35,553
With every kind of element
you could think of.
362
00:17:35,555 --> 00:17:36,788
There were
very, very good people
363
00:17:36,790 --> 00:17:38,556
And very, very bad people.
364
00:17:38,558 --> 00:17:40,792
- I come from that life,
and I come from chicago.
365
00:17:40,794 --> 00:17:43,394
Every street had a gang,
366
00:17:43,396 --> 00:17:45,463
And all we saw
were machine guns
367
00:17:45,465 --> 00:17:48,533
And dead bodies every day.
368
00:17:48,535 --> 00:17:52,203
Harlem and watts and compton,
man, was like boystown.
369
00:17:52,205 --> 00:17:53,638
That was nothing
after chicago, man.
370
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,475
Chicago was rough, man.
371
00:17:57,477 --> 00:17:59,811
- During those days
in the forties,
372
00:17:59,813 --> 00:18:01,546
You could either be a barber
373
00:18:01,548 --> 00:18:04,449
You could be a lawyer
if your parents had money,
374
00:18:04,451 --> 00:18:08,219
You could be a boxer,
you could be a musician,
375
00:18:08,221 --> 00:18:09,687
Or you could be a pimp.
376
00:18:12,357 --> 00:18:14,292
- We saw pimps everywhere.
377
00:18:14,294 --> 00:18:16,561
Serious, serious pimps.
378
00:18:16,563 --> 00:18:19,697
I don't mean
jheri curl pimps.
379
00:18:19,699 --> 00:18:22,233
- Baby bell
was the big pimp in chicago.
380
00:18:22,235 --> 00:18:25,236
- Baby bell
was phenomenal, man.
381
00:18:25,238 --> 00:18:27,805
He was big time.
382
00:18:27,807 --> 00:18:30,541
It's a level
that players wanna reach.
383
00:18:30,543 --> 00:18:36,147
Baby bell used to travel
with 32 pieces of luggage.
384
00:18:36,149 --> 00:18:37,482
Do you hear me?
385
00:18:37,484 --> 00:18:39,550
And he used to have
white women.
386
00:18:39,552 --> 00:18:41,853
And this was at
an early time
387
00:18:41,855 --> 00:18:44,689
When this was a no-no.
388
00:18:44,691 --> 00:18:47,558
- Once you're in the street,
you need father figures
389
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,360
'cause you don't just
walk out in the street
390
00:18:49,362 --> 00:18:51,796
And become the greatest pimp
in the world by osmosis.
391
00:18:51,798 --> 00:18:53,397
You need to learn.
392
00:18:53,399 --> 00:18:56,334
So in a way,
a cat like baby bell,
393
00:18:56,336 --> 00:18:59,337
You know, bell
is like a father figure
394
00:18:59,339 --> 00:19:01,873
As well as a teacher,
as well as a professor,
395
00:19:01,875 --> 00:19:03,441
You know, a mentor.
396
00:19:03,443 --> 00:19:06,144
- I became a pimp
397
00:19:06,146 --> 00:19:11,315
Primarily because of
the influence
398
00:19:11,317 --> 00:19:16,487
Of well-heeled pimps
and other hustlers
399
00:19:16,489 --> 00:19:19,757
During a period
of dire poverty in my life.
400
00:19:19,759 --> 00:19:23,761
And I feel that
I was influenced
401
00:19:23,763 --> 00:19:26,631
By the flashy glamour,
402
00:19:26,633 --> 00:19:32,470
The infestation of diamonds
on these hustlers,
403
00:19:32,472 --> 00:19:36,274
And also
by their big flashy cars.
404
00:19:36,276 --> 00:19:38,709
And I wanted
a sense of importance.
405
00:19:40,879 --> 00:19:42,880
- There was an area
on the south side of chicago
406
00:19:42,882 --> 00:19:45,516
Called 39th
and cottage grove,
407
00:19:45,518 --> 00:19:49,287
And basically it was
a red light district.
408
00:19:49,289 --> 00:19:51,322
And iceberg slim
409
00:19:51,324 --> 00:19:54,692
Was one of the neighborhood
role models.
410
00:19:54,694 --> 00:19:57,562
When I first heard
iceberg slim,
411
00:19:57,564 --> 00:20:01,866
My impression of him
was a towering intellect.
412
00:20:01,868 --> 00:20:03,768
He was talking about
413
00:20:03,770 --> 00:20:07,605
The economics
of sexual intercourse
414
00:20:07,607 --> 00:20:12,210
And how he looked upon
what he was doing
415
00:20:12,212 --> 00:20:14,312
As a broker.
416
00:20:14,314 --> 00:20:15,313
- You know,
a lot of people think
417
00:20:15,315 --> 00:20:18,516
That top pimps are dummies.
418
00:20:18,518 --> 00:20:20,918
That's not true.
419
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,923
They're just perverted.
420
00:20:25,925 --> 00:20:30,861
I've never known a top pimp
who didn't have a high iq.
421
00:20:30,863 --> 00:20:33,397
- Actually, I think
he would have been
422
00:20:33,399 --> 00:20:35,666
A good salesperson.
423
00:20:35,668 --> 00:20:38,669
Do you now how it takes
a lot to sell a woman,
424
00:20:38,671 --> 00:20:41,472
To make a woman
sell her body.
425
00:20:41,474 --> 00:20:43,441
- Most of the prostitutes
that I've known
426
00:20:43,443 --> 00:20:45,309
And the ones
that I've controlled
427
00:20:45,311 --> 00:20:49,614
Were fascinated
and bewitched
428
00:20:49,616 --> 00:20:52,617
By my phony glamour,
429
00:20:52,619 --> 00:20:56,787
Of the poisonous
pimp charisma,
430
00:20:56,789 --> 00:21:00,758
And they lived in
my reflected glory, so to speak.
431
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,261
It gave them
a sense of importance.
432
00:21:03,263 --> 00:21:04,962
- What is the life
of a prostitute like?
433
00:21:04,964 --> 00:21:09,400
- It's got to be holy hell.
434
00:21:09,402 --> 00:21:11,269
The booby traps
in the street,
435
00:21:11,271 --> 00:21:14,272
The death traps
in the street for a prostitute,
436
00:21:14,274 --> 00:21:17,975
Her life--
the life of a prostitute
437
00:21:17,977 --> 00:21:20,611
Is filled with tension
and the pressure of the pimp.
438
00:21:20,613 --> 00:21:22,780
I hope you won't mind
439
00:21:22,782 --> 00:21:24,315
Asking you in here
for a drink
440
00:21:24,317 --> 00:21:25,583
After meeting you
on the street there.
441
00:22:03,755 --> 00:22:05,656
- Slim tells his girls
442
00:22:05,658 --> 00:22:07,458
They can leave
whenever they get ready.
443
00:22:07,460 --> 00:22:10,428
But they don't wanna leave
'cause he's too good to 'em,
444
00:22:10,430 --> 00:22:12,396
But they must get the money.
445
00:22:12,398 --> 00:22:15,566
Otherwise, you're fired
or something like that.
446
00:22:15,568 --> 00:22:19,403
Can you imagine
a pimp firing a whore?
447
00:22:19,405 --> 00:22:22,406
- My total image of myself
448
00:22:22,408 --> 00:22:30,481
Was that I was some sort
of black evil svengali.
449
00:22:32,584 --> 00:22:34,051
- When you look
at old pictures of him,
450
00:22:34,053 --> 00:22:36,020
You see this face,
451
00:22:36,022 --> 00:22:37,955
This mask he wore.
452
00:22:40,392 --> 00:22:42,760
There was no emotion,
no emotion whatsoever.
453
00:22:42,762 --> 00:22:44,628
His foot had no problem
454
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:46,931
Finding its way
to a woman's ass.
455
00:22:46,933 --> 00:22:49,867
- Iceberg
had no hesitation at all
456
00:22:49,869 --> 00:22:52,436
About taking
two lines of cocaine
457
00:22:52,438 --> 00:22:54,372
So he could
slap up his bitch, you know.
458
00:22:54,374 --> 00:22:56,640
- Brutality
was the name of the game.
459
00:22:56,642 --> 00:22:58,409
First of all,
460
00:22:58,411 --> 00:23:01,645
You'd spell out
your rules and regulations,
461
00:23:01,647 --> 00:23:06,484
And if any of those rules
were broken,
462
00:23:06,486 --> 00:23:08,018
You had to punish 'em.
463
00:23:12,758 --> 00:23:16,127
- He would visualize
being cold as a refrigerator,
464
00:23:16,129 --> 00:23:18,996
Being cold as a freezer,
465
00:23:18,998 --> 00:23:21,632
Where he would be able
to guard his emotions
466
00:23:21,634 --> 00:23:24,935
Against rival pimps, cops,
his women.
467
00:23:24,937 --> 00:23:27,571
They were never able
to read him.
468
00:23:27,573 --> 00:23:29,507
- I've had
hundreds of women.
469
00:23:29,509 --> 00:23:33,511
I've never admitted to one
that I ever had a problem
470
00:23:33,513 --> 00:23:38,182
Or that anything worried me.
471
00:23:38,184 --> 00:23:41,952
And that's the secret.
472
00:23:41,954 --> 00:23:43,788
- He said
he was a psychopath.
473
00:23:43,790 --> 00:23:48,659
He said he got a thrill
out of degrading women
474
00:23:48,661 --> 00:23:50,795
And hurting them,
brutalizing them,
475
00:23:50,797 --> 00:23:52,596
Keeping a relentless
psychological
476
00:23:52,598 --> 00:23:55,566
And physical pressure
on them.
477
00:23:55,568 --> 00:23:58,636
- I wanted that thrill,
478
00:23:58,638 --> 00:24:02,072
That voluptuous sensation
of controlling
479
00:24:02,074 --> 00:24:05,075
A stable of women.
480
00:24:09,815 --> 00:24:11,148
- He had to grab
that intellect,
481
00:24:11,150 --> 00:24:14,952
Grab that spirit,
grab that hope
482
00:24:14,954 --> 00:24:16,887
And he was--
I don't think
483
00:24:16,889 --> 00:24:18,756
There was anybody
better at it than him.
484
00:24:18,758 --> 00:24:21,058
- He said the hardest thing
for me to do every day
485
00:24:21,060 --> 00:24:23,894
Was to say something
to my stable
486
00:24:23,896 --> 00:24:27,565
That would confound
their mind
487
00:24:27,567 --> 00:24:31,836
To mentally
keep them in check.
488
00:24:31,838 --> 00:24:35,539
- At the end of the day,
there's only one game.
489
00:24:35,541 --> 00:24:37,842
It's you either work
for somebody
490
00:24:37,844 --> 00:24:39,944
Or you have people
work for you.
491
00:24:39,946 --> 00:24:43,113
Pimping is no different,
you know.
492
00:24:43,115 --> 00:24:45,850
If you really break it down
to the lowest level,
493
00:24:45,852 --> 00:24:52,089
It's using your finesse
and your charisma
494
00:24:52,091 --> 00:24:56,694
To convince somebody to do
what you want them to do.
495
00:24:56,696 --> 00:24:59,230
- You can't be
a normal person,
496
00:24:59,232 --> 00:25:01,966
Not and succeed
in that life.
497
00:25:01,968 --> 00:25:06,103
And you've got to be
absolutely unflappable.
498
00:25:06,105 --> 00:25:09,106
What you do literally
499
00:25:09,108 --> 00:25:12,142
Is play god.
500
00:25:12,144 --> 00:25:14,245
- When you have
five or six hos,
501
00:25:14,247 --> 00:25:16,680
Every one of them
thinks their man is god.
502
00:25:16,682 --> 00:25:20,885
He said, that's why you don't
have sex with them very often.
503
00:25:20,887 --> 00:25:22,853
You've got to be god,
504
00:25:22,855 --> 00:25:27,558
And, hey, if she can touch
god any time she wants,
505
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,194
Then he's not god anymore.
506
00:25:32,130 --> 00:25:33,831
- The life of a pimp
507
00:25:33,833 --> 00:25:36,901
Is unremitting tension
and pressures.
508
00:25:36,903 --> 00:25:42,706
A pimp lives on
the precipice of disaster.
509
00:25:42,708 --> 00:25:45,843
I think he's the most
hated and feared creature
510
00:25:45,845 --> 00:25:47,545
Of the underworld.
511
00:25:47,547 --> 00:25:48,979
- All of us, honey.
All of us.
512
00:25:48,981 --> 00:25:54,752
- To try to actually
control a female
513
00:25:54,754 --> 00:25:56,887
Who's basically a criminal,
514
00:25:56,889 --> 00:25:59,857
A robber, a thief,
515
00:25:59,859 --> 00:26:03,561
To get that to operate
under your motivation
516
00:26:03,563 --> 00:26:05,996
Is not an easy thing to do,
you know what I'm saying?
517
00:26:05,998 --> 00:26:07,665
So I tell cats,
518
00:26:07,667 --> 00:26:08,832
I'm, like,
you'd do better selling drugs.
519
00:26:08,834 --> 00:26:10,167
At least a key of dope
520
00:26:10,169 --> 00:26:11,702
Won't wake up
in the middle of the night
521
00:26:11,704 --> 00:26:14,171
And kill you for something
you said to it early that day.
522
00:26:14,173 --> 00:26:16,941
- Holding a stable together
requires the pimp
523
00:26:16,943 --> 00:26:20,010
To keep each individual member
of the stable
524
00:26:20,012 --> 00:26:22,713
In apparent competition.
525
00:26:22,715 --> 00:26:25,716
- Because of the nature
of the prey--
526
00:26:25,718 --> 00:26:28,319
And I don't have to tell
you gentlemen
527
00:26:28,321 --> 00:26:32,122
How cunning they are--
528
00:26:32,124 --> 00:26:34,024
The enemy.
529
00:26:34,026 --> 00:26:35,859
- Your word got to be law.
530
00:26:35,861 --> 00:26:38,062
Even if you tell
that female,
531
00:26:38,064 --> 00:26:41,065
I'm not gonna accept you
or georgia you
532
00:26:41,067 --> 00:26:44,335
Or give you any love
until you give me my money.
533
00:26:44,337 --> 00:26:45,936
You got to mean that.
534
00:26:45,938 --> 00:26:47,905
You gotta keep
your gang live
535
00:26:47,907 --> 00:26:49,807
And let 'em know
that you're down
536
00:26:49,809 --> 00:26:51,709
And that you
about your money.
537
00:26:51,711 --> 00:26:54,345
- It's a skull game.
Pimping is a skull game.
538
00:26:54,347 --> 00:26:57,114
It's a game
of manipulative psychology.
539
00:26:57,116 --> 00:26:58,816
- And believe me,
540
00:26:58,818 --> 00:27:02,353
To really be a pimp
takes a lot.
541
00:27:02,355 --> 00:27:04,355
The average man
walking up and down the street,
542
00:27:04,357 --> 00:27:05,823
He may be
under the impression
543
00:27:05,825 --> 00:27:07,825
That he can pimp,
544
00:27:07,827 --> 00:27:09,960
But when
he's put to the test,
545
00:27:09,962 --> 00:27:11,328
He'll flunk.
546
00:27:18,903 --> 00:27:22,039
- My brother,
my older brother shabazz
547
00:27:22,041 --> 00:27:26,377
Had, um...
When he got out of jail,
548
00:27:26,379 --> 00:27:29,380
He changed his name
from charles to shabazz.
549
00:27:29,382 --> 00:27:31,081
He became a 5 percenter.
550
00:27:31,083 --> 00:27:35,252
And, you know,
there was korans
551
00:27:35,254 --> 00:27:39,189
And a bunch of, you know,
islamic literature,
552
00:27:39,191 --> 00:27:42,126
And then
every iceberg slim book
553
00:27:42,128 --> 00:27:43,927
Was right next to it.
554
00:27:55,740 --> 00:27:58,075
- It was December 1945.
555
00:27:58,077 --> 00:28:01,845
For seven years,
I devoted myself
556
00:28:01,847 --> 00:28:04,148
To getting hip
to that pimp's book.
557
00:28:04,150 --> 00:28:08,852
I had thought and acted
like a black god.
558
00:28:08,854 --> 00:28:11,155
Six months later,
sweet called me.
559
00:28:11,157 --> 00:28:15,125
He said, berg, I got a wire
the fbi's quizzing whores.
560
00:28:15,127 --> 00:28:16,460
They're trying to build
561
00:28:16,462 --> 00:28:20,130
A five or six count rap
against you.
562
00:28:20,132 --> 00:28:23,901
- He's picked up for
violating the mann act.
563
00:28:23,903 --> 00:28:25,069
Two of his women--
564
00:28:25,071 --> 00:28:27,037
His bottom woman
of many years, phyllis,
565
00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:29,773
His first woman, turned
states evidence against him.
566
00:28:29,775 --> 00:28:33,110
He was incarcerated
in leavenworth,
567
00:28:33,112 --> 00:28:36,113
The alma mater
of machine gun kelly
568
00:28:36,115 --> 00:28:39,283
Bugs moran, al capone.
569
00:28:39,285 --> 00:28:43,087
- Iceberg slim writes about
a psychiatrist in the 1940s
570
00:28:43,089 --> 00:28:45,355
That he encountered
in prison.
571
00:28:45,357 --> 00:28:49,093
The psychiatrist came from
a psycho-analytical background
572
00:28:49,095 --> 00:28:52,196
And believed that pimps,
particularly black pimps,
573
00:28:52,198 --> 00:28:54,865
Had a real hatred
of their mothers.
574
00:28:54,867 --> 00:28:58,936
- The person that had
the greatest effect on him
575
00:28:58,938 --> 00:29:02,106
Psychologically
was his mother.
576
00:29:02,108 --> 00:29:05,109
He didn't want
to keep hurting his mother,
577
00:29:05,111 --> 00:29:07,745
And yet
there was a part here
578
00:29:07,747 --> 00:29:09,947
That was a divided soul.
579
00:29:09,949 --> 00:29:13,517
Because there were
also parts of him
580
00:29:13,519 --> 00:29:15,953
That were angry
at his mother
581
00:29:15,955 --> 00:29:18,355
And held things
against his mother,
582
00:29:18,357 --> 00:29:20,991
Which really psychologically
583
00:29:20,993 --> 00:29:24,294
Had some things to do with
the way he treated other women
584
00:29:24,296 --> 00:29:27,965
And his utter
disrespect for women.
585
00:29:30,001 --> 00:29:32,002
- My reputation coming up
586
00:29:32,004 --> 00:29:34,037
Before I got
street poisoned,
587
00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:35,939
All of my mother's friends,
588
00:29:35,941 --> 00:29:40,778
All of my associates'
mothers and fathers,
589
00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:43,480
They all thought
I was the most charming,
590
00:29:43,482 --> 00:29:45,883
The sweetest--
they used to talk about,
591
00:29:45,885 --> 00:29:48,519
Oh, your son is so sweet.
592
00:29:48,521 --> 00:29:50,254
Oh, he's such a gentleman.
593
00:29:50,256 --> 00:29:52,556
You see what I mean?
594
00:29:52,558 --> 00:29:57,995
So to get from that "a"
595
00:29:57,997 --> 00:30:01,431
To the horrific "z"
of pimping
596
00:30:01,433 --> 00:30:03,433
Required more of me
597
00:30:03,435 --> 00:30:05,302
Than it did
the average person.
598
00:30:05,304 --> 00:30:07,004
- Which I think played out
599
00:30:07,006 --> 00:30:09,373
In his very, very
direct experiences
600
00:30:09,375 --> 00:30:11,208
With some of the girls
in his stable,
601
00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:13,443
Including the girl
who he beat violently,
602
00:30:13,445 --> 00:30:17,181
And at the same time wanted
to nurture and hold and hug.
603
00:30:17,183 --> 00:30:20,250
- But I always had
that suckers streak in me.
604
00:30:20,252 --> 00:30:25,389
I don't mean that
it compromised my pimping.
605
00:30:25,391 --> 00:30:28,358
But it was always there.
606
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,228
- You can't just
dog a woman out
607
00:30:31,230 --> 00:30:34,298
And just gorilla pimp
a bitch to death.
608
00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:37,267
There's gotta be some compassion
to pimping in there,
609
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:39,903
Some soft side, some tender
loving pimping in there.
610
00:30:39,905 --> 00:30:42,005
Because if you constantly
with the women,
611
00:30:42,007 --> 00:30:44,208
You gotta have
a natural feeling for 'em.
612
00:30:44,210 --> 00:30:45,175
They give you money.
You respect 'em.
613
00:30:45,177 --> 00:30:47,144
You actually being
a father figure to 'em.
614
00:30:50,949 --> 00:30:53,217
- 28 years old,
he's released from leavenworth,
615
00:30:53,219 --> 00:30:56,987
He's back on the street
flat on his ass.
616
00:30:56,989 --> 00:30:59,122
So automatically,
his first thought is, like,
617
00:30:59,124 --> 00:31:01,525
Okay, I gotta get
my pimping game back up.
618
00:31:01,527 --> 00:31:03,193
- He has
no other alternative
619
00:31:03,195 --> 00:31:07,264
But to turn
to strong-armed robbery.
620
00:31:07,266 --> 00:31:10,868
And within a month, bam,
he's back in the slammer.
621
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:13,303
He's sentenced to cook county
house of corrections
622
00:31:13,305 --> 00:31:14,638
For a year.
623
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,640
They put him on
the coal pile.
624
00:31:16,642 --> 00:31:19,309
Never done a hard day's work
in his life.
625
00:31:19,311 --> 00:31:22,079
A pimp on a coal pile
is like oil and water.
626
00:31:22,081 --> 00:31:28,585
So good Friday 1947,
he escaped.
627
00:31:28,587 --> 00:31:30,387
- He's a fugitive
from justice.
628
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:31,622
He's running all over
the midwest
629
00:31:31,624 --> 00:31:33,557
With eight prostitutes
630
00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:37,227
And he's an addict
of heroin and cocaine.
631
00:31:40,298 --> 00:31:41,531
- Did you make
a lot of money?
632
00:31:41,533 --> 00:31:44,434
- Oh...
633
00:31:44,436 --> 00:31:48,605
But where'd it go?
In my arm.
634
00:31:48,607 --> 00:31:51,508
In a blizzard of cocaine
635
00:31:51,510 --> 00:31:53,577
Up my nose.
636
00:31:53,579 --> 00:31:57,247
All kinds of clothes.
637
00:31:57,249 --> 00:32:01,118
Spending it across the bar
in cabarets.
638
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,354
- Dope is maybe one of
the greatest pimps to ever live,
639
00:32:04,356 --> 00:32:07,190
Because anybody
who uses dope
640
00:32:07,192 --> 00:32:09,192
And gets hooked on dope,
641
00:32:09,194 --> 00:32:12,696
You're a ho
and the dope is pimping you.
642
00:32:12,698 --> 00:32:15,432
- When you're in the life,
643
00:32:15,434 --> 00:32:18,602
You never realize that
you're going to get old.
644
00:32:18,604 --> 00:32:21,104
That never occurs to you
645
00:32:21,106 --> 00:32:26,343
Because the drugs
keep you in a trace.
646
00:32:26,345 --> 00:32:28,278
- By the late 1950s,
647
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,013
He's got his girls
in whorehouses,
648
00:32:30,015 --> 00:32:32,316
He gets busted,
they run his fingerprints
649
00:32:32,318 --> 00:32:34,217
And find out
he's an escaped convict.
650
00:32:36,220 --> 00:32:38,388
- His run in the game
is over.
651
00:32:38,390 --> 00:32:41,992
He's sentenced back
to the house of corrections.
652
00:32:41,994 --> 00:32:46,263
He does nine months
in solitary confinement.
653
00:32:51,135 --> 00:32:54,071
- I looked around
my new home.
654
00:32:54,073 --> 00:32:55,539
It was a tight box
655
00:32:55,541 --> 00:32:58,475
Designed to crush and torture
the human spirit.
656
00:32:58,477 --> 00:33:00,744
I raised my arms above me.
657
00:33:00,746 --> 00:33:05,182
My fingertips touched
the cold steel ceiling.
658
00:33:05,184 --> 00:33:07,451
I stretched them out
to the side.
659
00:33:07,453 --> 00:33:10,988
I touched the steel walls.
660
00:33:10,990 --> 00:33:13,557
The mattress cover
was stained and stinking
661
00:33:13,559 --> 00:33:16,326
From old puke and crap.
662
00:33:16,328 --> 00:33:19,429
It wasn't just the cell.
663
00:33:19,431 --> 00:33:22,699
It was the sights and sounds
of the misery and torment
664
00:33:22,701 --> 00:33:24,334
On the row.
665
00:33:24,336 --> 00:33:26,203
(men shouting)
666
00:33:26,205 --> 00:33:28,171
- At the end
of the fourth month,
667
00:33:28,173 --> 00:33:30,073
My skull was shaking
on my shoulders
668
00:33:30,075 --> 00:33:33,276
Like I had palsy.
669
00:33:33,278 --> 00:33:35,278
- He said that
he would have to do things
670
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,347
To strengthen his mind
671
00:33:37,349 --> 00:33:39,716
To keep from going crazy.
672
00:33:39,718 --> 00:33:42,352
- His writing
may have actually begun
673
00:33:42,354 --> 00:33:45,355
In that prison world
in that setting
674
00:33:45,357 --> 00:33:47,524
Where he started
creating stories,
675
00:33:47,526 --> 00:33:51,495
Whether about his own life
or fictional ones.
676
00:33:51,497 --> 00:33:54,231
- He said, I had to play
mental games with myself,
677
00:33:54,233 --> 00:33:56,333
And I had to have
certain conversations
678
00:33:56,335 --> 00:33:58,101
To just keep me going.
679
00:33:58,103 --> 00:34:00,303
He said, because
I was determined
680
00:34:00,305 --> 00:34:02,406
That the man
was not going to break me.
681
00:34:04,175 --> 00:34:07,477
♪ I could
just lay right down ♪
682
00:34:07,479 --> 00:34:11,415
♪ I tell you, children,
I could lay right down ♪
683
00:34:11,417 --> 00:34:13,250
- He had a lot to cope with.
684
00:34:13,252 --> 00:34:16,586
His best friend,
joe "party time" evans,
685
00:34:16,588 --> 00:34:18,321
Was killed.
686
00:34:20,324 --> 00:34:23,093
Baby bell was dead.
687
00:34:26,297 --> 00:34:27,597
- He gets a letter
from his mother,
688
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:28,799
And that she's very sick
689
00:34:28,801 --> 00:34:30,534
And that he needs
to get out to los angeles.
690
00:34:30,536 --> 00:34:34,538
- I had come to a decision
in that awful cell.
691
00:34:34,540 --> 00:34:39,076
I was through
with pimping and drugs.
692
00:34:39,078 --> 00:34:41,745
I had found out that pimping
is for young men,
693
00:34:41,747 --> 00:34:43,747
The stupid kind.
694
00:34:43,749 --> 00:34:45,315
I got insight that perhaps
695
00:34:45,317 --> 00:34:48,151
I could never have hoped
to get outside.
696
00:34:48,153 --> 00:34:52,089
I could see
the terrible pattern of my life.
697
00:34:52,091 --> 00:34:54,591
Mama might die in california
at any time.
698
00:34:54,593 --> 00:34:57,661
I had to get to her
before she died.
699
00:34:57,663 --> 00:35:00,363
I had to convince her
I loved her.
700
00:35:00,365 --> 00:35:01,698
I had to get there
701
00:35:01,700 --> 00:35:04,668
As much for myself
as for her.
702
00:35:04,670 --> 00:35:06,803
- Here he is, he's struggling
trying keep his sanity,
703
00:35:06,805 --> 00:35:09,439
And during this time,
704
00:35:09,441 --> 00:35:13,543
He finds out
they may tack on more time.
705
00:35:13,545 --> 00:35:15,745
He may not get out
when they tell him
706
00:35:15,747 --> 00:35:17,214
That he's
supposed to be released.
707
00:35:17,216 --> 00:35:21,418
- In order
to secure his freedom
708
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:23,587
On the day that he
is supposed to be released,
709
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:26,423
He writes a letter
to the warden
710
00:35:26,425 --> 00:35:31,194
In which he makes
a legal sounding plea
711
00:35:31,196 --> 00:35:34,264
For his release.
712
00:35:34,266 --> 00:35:36,366
- Using the pen
and the paper
713
00:35:36,368 --> 00:35:39,202
To get somewhere in life
for the first time
714
00:35:39,204 --> 00:35:42,339
Was cathartic for him.
715
00:35:42,341 --> 00:35:46,243
This is when he became
a writer, in effect,
716
00:35:46,245 --> 00:35:50,280
And that writing,
then and later on,
717
00:35:50,282 --> 00:35:52,616
Enabled him to leave
the penitentiary,
718
00:35:52,618 --> 00:35:56,253
Enabled him to leave
the life of crime behind
719
00:35:56,255 --> 00:35:57,821
And so through writing,
720
00:35:57,823 --> 00:35:59,656
He really did
change his life.
721
00:35:59,658 --> 00:36:01,458
- Writers are born
and not created,
722
00:36:01,460 --> 00:36:03,793
So that gene,
that genius gene
723
00:36:03,795 --> 00:36:05,328
Has always been there
somewhere inside of you.
724
00:36:05,330 --> 00:36:06,630
It just takes something
to trigger it.
725
00:36:06,632 --> 00:36:10,300
- He says I hated
being in the steel casket
726
00:36:10,302 --> 00:36:11,935
Where they locked me away,
727
00:36:11,937 --> 00:36:14,371
But they saved my life.
728
00:36:14,373 --> 00:36:18,241
Because if I had tried
to continue on,
729
00:36:18,243 --> 00:36:20,877
I wouldn't have lived.
730
00:36:20,879 --> 00:36:22,679
- He said, so I knew
731
00:36:22,681 --> 00:36:25,949
That I was going to leave
the street life alone
732
00:36:25,951 --> 00:36:28,418
And do whatever I had to do
733
00:36:28,420 --> 00:36:31,221
To straighten up
734
00:36:31,223 --> 00:36:34,724
And lead
a different kind of life.
735
00:36:34,726 --> 00:36:37,427
♪ love and happiness
736
00:36:37,429 --> 00:36:39,563
♪ making it right
737
00:36:39,565 --> 00:36:42,666
♪ love and happiness
738
00:36:42,668 --> 00:36:44,701
♪ making it right
739
00:36:44,703 --> 00:36:47,571
♪ love and happiness
740
00:36:47,573 --> 00:36:49,372
♪ making it right
741
00:36:49,374 --> 00:36:52,742
- Los angeles becomes
the end point of his journey
742
00:36:52,744 --> 00:36:54,411
Because he's trying
to get back to mama.
743
00:36:54,413 --> 00:36:57,414
- I had no one except mama.
744
00:36:57,416 --> 00:37:00,417
My coming to her
had been like a miracle.
745
00:37:00,419 --> 00:37:04,754
It was the magic
that gave her strength.
746
00:37:04,756 --> 00:37:06,756
She told me
that I should get married
747
00:37:06,758 --> 00:37:08,425
And have children.
748
00:37:15,499 --> 00:37:17,767
- I had come out here
to california
749
00:37:17,769 --> 00:37:20,704
'cause I was just bored,
so I came out here.
750
00:37:20,706 --> 00:37:22,439
(coughs)
751
00:37:22,441 --> 00:37:26,309
I had worked
for a hamburger stand
752
00:37:26,311 --> 00:37:30,747
And this guy started--
stopped by there
753
00:37:30,749 --> 00:37:34,818
And he looked like
a professional to me,
754
00:37:34,820 --> 00:37:37,721
Either a doctor,
a lawyer,
755
00:37:37,723 --> 00:37:41,491
Or a president
of some bank.
756
00:37:41,493 --> 00:37:44,394
Impeccably dressed.
757
00:37:44,396 --> 00:37:48,765
Shoes shined,
the car spotless.
758
00:37:48,767 --> 00:37:52,602
Just unbelievable.
759
00:37:52,604 --> 00:37:54,638
And he said
could I take you somewhere
760
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,440
Where you could eat something
besides a hamburger?
761
00:37:57,442 --> 00:38:00,577
I said, what the hell.
762
00:38:00,579 --> 00:38:03,280
So we go and we eat.
763
00:38:03,282 --> 00:38:07,617
And I drank too much,
764
00:38:07,619 --> 00:38:09,552
Which I usually did
back in those days.
765
00:38:09,554 --> 00:38:11,054
I drank all of my whiskey
766
00:38:11,056 --> 00:38:12,689
And all of
anybody else's whiskey
767
00:38:12,691 --> 00:38:14,524
I could get my hands on.
768
00:38:14,526 --> 00:38:17,394
And I got sick
769
00:38:17,396 --> 00:38:20,764
Like I have never been sick
before in my life.
770
00:38:20,766 --> 00:38:23,767
And he took me
to the emergency room.
771
00:38:23,769 --> 00:38:28,571
The doctor said
that I was, um...
772
00:38:28,573 --> 00:38:31,608
I was four months--
around four months pregnant.
773
00:38:31,610 --> 00:38:33,410
I said,
you've got to be lying.
774
00:38:33,412 --> 00:38:35,912
And he said, no.
775
00:38:35,914 --> 00:38:38,915
And then I started crying,
and bob came in.
776
00:38:38,917 --> 00:38:40,450
He said, what's the matter?
777
00:38:40,452 --> 00:38:42,052
I said, didn't they tell you
what's wrong with me?
778
00:38:42,054 --> 00:38:43,853
And he said, yeah.
779
00:38:43,855 --> 00:38:48,658
I said, and who's gonna
help take care of me?
780
00:38:48,660 --> 00:38:51,394
And he said, I am.
781
00:38:51,396 --> 00:38:54,698
So he took me
over to the apartment
782
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:56,700
Where he was living
with his mother.
783
00:38:56,702 --> 00:39:01,838
She married a man
that worked for the railroad.
784
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,807
His name was beck.
785
00:39:03,809 --> 00:39:07,577
That's why bob took beck
as a last name.
786
00:39:07,579 --> 00:39:09,546
When he brought me in there,
787
00:39:09,548 --> 00:39:11,681
Then of course immediately
788
00:39:11,683 --> 00:39:14,851
The wheels started turning
in her mind,
789
00:39:14,853 --> 00:39:17,821
And she would go back
790
00:39:17,823 --> 00:39:21,691
And she would say, baby,
you get away from him.
791
00:39:21,693 --> 00:39:23,960
Bobby's no good.
He's my son.
792
00:39:23,962 --> 00:39:26,796
I love him.
He's no good.
793
00:39:26,798 --> 00:39:32,135
And I asked him
what was she talking about?
794
00:39:32,137 --> 00:39:34,104
He said, I'll tell you,
795
00:39:34,106 --> 00:39:37,040
But now's not the time.
796
00:39:37,042 --> 00:39:40,377
She was an old woman,
797
00:39:40,379 --> 00:39:43,113
And she died,
798
00:39:43,115 --> 00:39:47,117
And I have never
in my life
799
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:51,788
Seen anybody suffer
the way he did
800
00:39:51,790 --> 00:39:53,823
The day his mama died.
801
00:40:04,568 --> 00:40:08,671
In June I had robin,
802
00:40:08,673 --> 00:40:11,141
And then 15 months later,
803
00:40:11,143 --> 00:40:14,744
I had camille.
804
00:40:14,746 --> 00:40:19,416
We were so broke,
so he started exterminating.
805
00:40:22,086 --> 00:40:24,921
He said, I don't know
how to do anything.
806
00:40:24,923 --> 00:40:28,024
He figured that was
the only thing that he could do
807
00:40:28,026 --> 00:40:31,060
Without going back
into the life.
808
00:40:31,062 --> 00:40:32,929
All he wanted was me
809
00:40:32,931 --> 00:40:36,099
And the children sometimes.
810
00:40:36,101 --> 00:40:40,103
They were totally
my responsibility.
811
00:40:40,105 --> 00:40:42,639
- She was, like,
the head of the house.
812
00:40:42,641 --> 00:40:45,675
She was the person
that gave discipline.
813
00:40:45,677 --> 00:40:50,046
She was the person
who made meals, rules.
814
00:40:50,048 --> 00:40:55,051
- Anytime the children
did something wrong, honey.
815
00:40:55,053 --> 00:40:57,187
Or I'm gonna tell mommy
816
00:40:57,189 --> 00:40:58,888
And all this kind of crap.
817
00:40:58,890 --> 00:41:00,223
- He was a great dad.
818
00:41:00,225 --> 00:41:01,758
I mean,
he could have been better,
819
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,726
But we could all be better
than what we are.
820
00:41:03,728 --> 00:41:06,196
From what he came from
821
00:41:06,198 --> 00:41:09,566
And to what
he was trying to do,
822
00:41:09,568 --> 00:41:12,569
He didn't have
any experience with kids,
823
00:41:12,571 --> 00:41:14,771
And then suddenly
he has four
824
00:41:14,773 --> 00:41:16,105
And three are girls.
That's--
825
00:41:16,107 --> 00:41:17,607
- Three of them are girls,
826
00:41:17,609 --> 00:41:20,577
And he was in a position
his entire life
827
00:41:20,579 --> 00:41:23,012
Of putting his boot
in the back
828
00:41:23,014 --> 00:41:25,648
Of every single female
that he came across.
829
00:41:25,650 --> 00:41:28,017
- My dad used to say
it was a curse.
830
00:41:28,019 --> 00:41:33,623
This must be
my sentence before death,
831
00:41:33,625 --> 00:41:37,260
The three of you.
832
00:41:37,262 --> 00:41:39,662
When we were younger,
833
00:41:39,664 --> 00:41:41,764
They lived on
90th and crenshaw
834
00:41:41,766 --> 00:41:44,100
In a black neighborhood,
835
00:41:44,102 --> 00:41:47,237
And someone threw a brick
at melody when she was four.
836
00:41:49,073 --> 00:41:50,807
It hit her in the head.
837
00:41:50,809 --> 00:41:54,511
She's, like, a four-year-old
baby playing.
838
00:41:54,513 --> 00:41:56,980
I think that that scene
in his mind
839
00:41:56,982 --> 00:41:59,983
Kind of set the stage
for, wow.
840
00:41:59,985 --> 00:42:01,784
I've got these mixed kids,
841
00:42:01,786 --> 00:42:05,121
This white woman,
842
00:42:05,123 --> 00:42:07,824
And people are angry.
843
00:42:07,826 --> 00:42:11,160
- It took 14,000 troops
to bring an end
844
00:42:11,162 --> 00:42:13,663
To what both negro
and white leaders called
845
00:42:13,665 --> 00:42:15,899
Insurrection by hoodlums.
846
00:42:15,901 --> 00:42:18,201
- When they had
that terrible riot,
847
00:42:18,203 --> 00:42:19,869
It was bad.
848
00:42:19,871 --> 00:42:23,006
He told me to keep
the children in a bedroom
849
00:42:23,008 --> 00:42:24,974
And keep that bedroom locked
850
00:42:24,976 --> 00:42:26,543
And I wasn't
to come out of that bedroom
851
00:42:26,545 --> 00:42:29,679
Until I heard his voice.
852
00:42:29,681 --> 00:42:31,581
'cause he was scared
to death
853
00:42:31,583 --> 00:42:33,950
Something was gonna happen.
854
00:42:33,952 --> 00:42:39,589
He said, you have to realize
855
00:42:39,591 --> 00:42:43,760
I ain't never, ever
gonna be accepted
856
00:42:43,762 --> 00:42:45,261
In the white world,
857
00:42:45,263 --> 00:42:49,933
And we'll never
be able to live
858
00:42:49,935 --> 00:42:54,003
Anywhere except on
the outskirts of the ghetto,
859
00:42:54,005 --> 00:42:57,206
Where there's
a mixture of people.
860
00:42:57,208 --> 00:42:59,042
- The census takers,
861
00:42:59,044 --> 00:43:00,944
They don't even count
people in the underworld.
862
00:43:00,946 --> 00:43:04,881
That's what
I liked about it.
863
00:43:04,883 --> 00:43:06,583
You see?
864
00:43:06,585 --> 00:43:11,287
I didn't have
to be bruised and wounded
865
00:43:11,289 --> 00:43:12,956
In my efforts
to make a living
866
00:43:12,958 --> 00:43:15,658
By coming in contact
with white society.
867
00:43:15,660 --> 00:43:18,261
I was never reminded
that I was a nigger.
868
00:43:32,042 --> 00:43:33,376
- All day long,
869
00:43:33,378 --> 00:43:36,045
He would go and kill
those roaches and rats
870
00:43:36,047 --> 00:43:37,380
And shit like that.
871
00:43:37,382 --> 00:43:42,986
He would come in
nasty and sweaty and...
872
00:43:42,988 --> 00:43:44,988
He hated it.
873
00:43:44,990 --> 00:43:47,624
Even then, though,
874
00:43:47,626 --> 00:43:51,094
This man could not get up
and go out in the streets
875
00:43:51,096 --> 00:43:54,130
Without putting on
a pair of dress pants
876
00:43:54,132 --> 00:43:57,934
And a dress shirt
and a goddamn hat.
877
00:43:57,936 --> 00:44:00,403
When he got home
from canvassing,
878
00:44:00,405 --> 00:44:02,972
As he called it,
to find other jobs,
879
00:44:02,974 --> 00:44:04,974
He'd want to talk.
880
00:44:04,976 --> 00:44:08,778
And he would tell me
these outrageous things
881
00:44:08,780 --> 00:44:13,016
And I said, a woman would
go out and sell herself
882
00:44:13,018 --> 00:44:15,218
And give the money to a man?
883
00:44:15,220 --> 00:44:17,253
I said, you're out
of your goddamn mind.
884
00:44:17,255 --> 00:44:23,259
And then he would talk about
the different experiences
885
00:44:23,261 --> 00:44:25,194
That he would have.
886
00:44:25,196 --> 00:44:28,831
I said, you know what?
Give me a note pad.
887
00:44:28,833 --> 00:44:30,433
You start talking to me,
888
00:44:30,435 --> 00:44:33,202
And I'll start
writing it down.
889
00:44:33,204 --> 00:44:36,039
And I did.
890
00:44:36,041 --> 00:44:38,041
After I put
the children to bed,
891
00:44:38,043 --> 00:44:40,677
It was in there.
892
00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:42,245
And then he'd say,
893
00:44:42,247 --> 00:44:44,447
You think you can get
any typing done tonight?
894
00:44:44,449 --> 00:44:49,952
And 12:00, 12:30, I'd go out
and turn that typewriter on.
895
00:44:49,954 --> 00:44:53,723
- She could type
160, 170 words a minute.
896
00:44:53,725 --> 00:44:55,158
- And he was really
animated.
897
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,026
- Yeah.
- And excited.
898
00:44:57,028 --> 00:45:01,097
- And he would act out
the whole book right there.
899
00:45:01,099 --> 00:45:04,100
- He would be telling me
what to write down,
900
00:45:04,102 --> 00:45:05,902
And I'm sitting in a chair
and I'm writing,
901
00:45:05,904 --> 00:45:08,271
And he's standing--
do you--
902
00:45:08,273 --> 00:45:10,073
And all up in my face.
903
00:45:10,075 --> 00:45:14,310
He was a consummate actor
absolutely.
904
00:45:14,312 --> 00:45:16,746
- She could put
this thing together
905
00:45:16,748 --> 00:45:18,715
And act it out with him.
906
00:45:18,717 --> 00:45:21,484
It was
an amazing experience.
907
00:45:21,486 --> 00:45:24,187
I wish that all of you
could have seen it.
908
00:45:24,189 --> 00:45:27,790
- We could finish
each other's sentences.
909
00:45:27,792 --> 00:45:31,060
His stories, they were
so fascinating to me.
910
00:45:31,062 --> 00:45:34,030
I felt that if they were
that fascinating to me,
911
00:45:34,032 --> 00:45:38,301
They obviously
were going to be fascinating
912
00:45:38,303 --> 00:45:41,204
To more than
a million people.
913
00:45:41,206 --> 00:45:45,208
I had seen the ad
in the sentinel,
914
00:45:45,210 --> 00:45:47,944
The black newspaper
for los angeles.
915
00:45:47,946 --> 00:45:51,514
Holloway house
was running a little ad
916
00:45:51,516 --> 00:45:54,217
For black writers.
917
00:45:54,219 --> 00:45:55,885
- At that time,
918
00:45:55,887 --> 00:45:57,453
There was no venue
919
00:45:57,455 --> 00:46:04,460
For a talented
young black author period.
920
00:46:04,462 --> 00:46:07,463
- When you're attached to
something like holloway house,
921
00:46:07,465 --> 00:46:09,899
It's such an iconic place
922
00:46:09,901 --> 00:46:13,102
Because of the fact
that they are the doorway
923
00:46:13,104 --> 00:46:16,205
For so many
unique american voices
924
00:46:16,207 --> 00:46:20,343
Like joseph nazel,
donald goines,
925
00:46:20,345 --> 00:46:24,113
And odie hawkins.
926
00:46:24,115 --> 00:46:27,083
Bentley morriss I think
927
00:46:27,085 --> 00:46:30,987
Should be considered
a pioneer in one sense
928
00:46:30,989 --> 00:46:33,322
But a drag in another.
929
00:46:33,324 --> 00:46:41,097
- Bentley is this really
epic personality.
930
00:46:41,099 --> 00:46:45,134
He was interested
in a trajectory
931
00:46:45,136 --> 00:46:47,303
That kept him
under the radar
932
00:46:47,305 --> 00:46:52,241
Of fabulous success.
933
00:46:52,243 --> 00:46:56,512
- Holloway house
first came into being in 1961.
934
00:46:56,514 --> 00:47:02,985
We felt that
we could...Not compete,
935
00:47:02,987 --> 00:47:06,322
But at least be a part
of the world of publication.
936
00:47:06,324 --> 00:47:08,991
Now, we're not hardcover.
We're paperback,
937
00:47:08,993 --> 00:47:12,094
Which is the low ring
of publishing.
938
00:47:12,096 --> 00:47:14,130
- It was
a third-tier publisher,
939
00:47:14,132 --> 00:47:16,999
Which would,
at that point in time
940
00:47:17,001 --> 00:47:18,467
Lock you out,
freeze you out
941
00:47:18,469 --> 00:47:21,604
Of the new york
literary scene.
942
00:47:21,606 --> 00:47:23,840
- I thought
he did a lousy job
943
00:47:23,842 --> 00:47:26,542
Bringing out books
with lousy covers.
944
00:47:26,544 --> 00:47:29,846
He did almost nothing
to promote the books.
945
00:47:29,848 --> 00:47:32,281
They were almost sold
by word of mouth.
946
00:47:32,283 --> 00:47:36,319
- They were sold in drugstores
and newsstands.
947
00:47:36,321 --> 00:47:37,987
That's how you find
your holloway house books.
948
00:47:37,989 --> 00:47:39,288
- They didn't want
to call their books
949
00:47:39,290 --> 00:47:41,490
African-american books.
950
00:47:41,492 --> 00:47:46,195
They wanted to call them
books from the black experience.
951
00:47:46,197 --> 00:47:50,199
- Bentley is not a racist
in any kind of way.
952
00:47:50,201 --> 00:47:53,035
If they could find a way
953
00:47:53,037 --> 00:47:55,071
That you could make money
for them,
954
00:47:55,073 --> 00:47:57,573
They didn't care
who you were.
955
00:47:57,575 --> 00:47:59,876
They were willing
to exploit anyone
956
00:47:59,878 --> 00:48:01,410
Who could make money
for them.
957
00:48:01,412 --> 00:48:03,446
- We were not proselytizers.
958
00:48:03,448 --> 00:48:06,983
We weren't
socially inclined.
959
00:48:06,985 --> 00:48:10,119
We were in the business
to make money.
960
00:48:10,121 --> 00:48:13,422
But with it
was the additional caveat
961
00:48:13,424 --> 00:48:16,025
Of you're doing
something good.
962
00:48:16,027 --> 00:48:17,360
You're doing
something important.
963
00:48:17,362 --> 00:48:20,129
And, hey, you know,
that's a great formula.
964
00:48:21,932 --> 00:48:24,667
- I asked bob
why he didn't find out
965
00:48:24,669 --> 00:48:27,136
What these people required
966
00:48:27,138 --> 00:48:28,938
And let's see
if it's sellable.
967
00:48:28,940 --> 00:48:31,140
Because if it's sellable,
968
00:48:31,142 --> 00:48:34,377
Then we're setting here
struggling like this
969
00:48:34,379 --> 00:48:36,646
With no money
to feed the kids,
970
00:48:36,648 --> 00:48:38,514
No milk money,
no cigarette money,
971
00:48:38,516 --> 00:48:41,384
No nothing, barely
getting by on the rent.
972
00:48:41,386 --> 00:48:44,921
We don't have to live like--
'cause writers make money.
973
00:48:44,923 --> 00:48:47,189
And I got
100 pages together.
974
00:48:47,191 --> 00:48:50,927
And he took it
to bentley morriss.
975
00:48:50,929 --> 00:48:52,962
- I can see him at the door
at this moment.
976
00:48:52,964 --> 00:48:56,966
Just immaculate.
977
00:48:56,968 --> 00:48:59,201
This extraordinary
human being
978
00:48:59,203 --> 00:49:03,005
Of about--I think
about 6-3 in height
979
00:49:03,007 --> 00:49:05,207
Came and said he's an author
980
00:49:05,209 --> 00:49:07,610
And he'd like to leave
a manuscript.
981
00:49:07,612 --> 00:49:09,312
The editor at the time
982
00:49:09,314 --> 00:49:14,083
Was a chap by the name
of milton van sickle.
983
00:49:14,085 --> 00:49:16,285
He read it,
brought it in to me,
984
00:49:16,287 --> 00:49:18,154
And I said, wow.
985
00:49:18,156 --> 00:49:21,023
It was such a revelation
986
00:49:21,025 --> 00:49:24,560
To receive a book
with such intensity
987
00:49:24,562 --> 00:49:27,063
And with such truthfulness.
988
00:49:27,065 --> 00:49:30,499
- Bentley morriss
gave us a $5,000 advance.
989
00:49:30,501 --> 00:49:33,536
And we were down to five.
990
00:49:33,538 --> 00:49:35,037
You got $5.00,
991
00:49:35,039 --> 00:49:37,673
Somebody gonna cut you
a check for 5 grand,
992
00:49:37,675 --> 00:49:39,208
What are you gonna do?
993
00:49:39,210 --> 00:49:42,411
Are you gonna give them
that portion of your work
994
00:49:42,413 --> 00:49:44,013
And then promise them
995
00:49:44,015 --> 00:49:48,284
That the rest of it will be
delivered within two months?
996
00:49:48,286 --> 00:49:51,320
And that's what we did.
997
00:49:51,322 --> 00:49:52,989
- Certainly, him coming up
998
00:49:52,991 --> 00:49:55,992
With the nom de plume
of iceberg slim
999
00:49:55,994 --> 00:49:58,294
Was an extremely clever
writer's device
1000
00:49:58,296 --> 00:50:01,063
Because it tells you
right in the name,
1001
00:50:01,065 --> 00:50:02,765
Slim, okay,
he's good looking.
1002
00:50:02,767 --> 00:50:04,200
He's cat-like.
1003
00:50:04,202 --> 00:50:07,303
Iceberg:
He's cold, cold, cold,
1004
00:50:07,305 --> 00:50:09,105
And only the tip
of the iceberg showed,
1005
00:50:09,107 --> 00:50:10,406
Just what
he wanted you to see.
1006
00:50:10,408 --> 00:50:13,542
Most of it
was hidden from view.
1007
00:50:13,544 --> 00:50:16,112
He said, no, on the street,
they call me cavanaugh.
1008
00:50:16,114 --> 00:50:17,780
That was my name.
Cavanaugh.
1009
00:50:17,782 --> 00:50:20,716
- Everybody
was enthralled by the book,
1010
00:50:20,718 --> 00:50:22,184
And we figured, let's go.
1011
00:50:25,288 --> 00:50:27,289
- Pimpwas
the first real book
1012
00:50:27,291 --> 00:50:29,325
About the street life,
1013
00:50:29,327 --> 00:50:31,761
And the first
real black experience
1014
00:50:31,763 --> 00:50:34,163
Put into a book form.
1015
00:50:34,165 --> 00:50:36,532
- You had james baldwin,
for example,
1016
00:50:36,534 --> 00:50:40,102
Or ralph ellison,
very literate black writers
1017
00:50:40,104 --> 00:50:42,538
Who did not reflect
the nitty gritty
1018
00:50:42,540 --> 00:50:45,508
Of life on the street.
1019
00:50:45,510 --> 00:50:47,343
Iceberg slim
was the real thing.
1020
00:50:49,479 --> 00:50:52,415
If was insightful
in terms of
1021
00:50:52,417 --> 00:50:54,316
The life of the street
itself.
1022
00:50:54,318 --> 00:50:59,588
He'd take something
very gory or simple,
1023
00:50:59,590 --> 00:51:01,390
But he'd bring poetry
to it somehow.
1024
00:51:01,392 --> 00:51:03,492
- The delivery
is so poetic in nature
1025
00:51:03,494 --> 00:51:05,361
That you are
falling in love with the words
1026
00:51:05,363 --> 00:51:07,263
Even though that
they are word of violence
1027
00:51:07,265 --> 00:51:09,331
And words of turmoil
and terror.
1028
00:51:09,333 --> 00:51:10,699
- It was so intriguing.
1029
00:51:10,701 --> 00:51:12,468
Here I am, a little girl,
a young girl,
1030
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:15,104
And I'm reading this stuff
about pimps
1031
00:51:15,106 --> 00:51:18,140
And drugs and prostitution
1032
00:51:18,142 --> 00:51:21,544
And, you know, your imagination
just goes haywire.
1033
00:51:21,546 --> 00:51:23,846
- Just doesn't sound
like anything else
1034
00:51:23,848 --> 00:51:27,183
Or feel like anything else.
1035
00:51:27,185 --> 00:51:28,818
It's a snapshot
1036
00:51:28,820 --> 00:51:32,221
Of things you're never
gonna be able to see.
1037
00:51:32,223 --> 00:51:35,124
- You crack any page
on the book
1038
00:51:35,126 --> 00:51:37,526
And read out a paragraph
1039
00:51:37,528 --> 00:51:39,628
And it's the craziest shit
you've ever heard.
1040
00:51:39,630 --> 00:51:44,600
It's not just the game,
it's the pain of the game.
1041
00:51:44,602 --> 00:51:47,369
- He really tells you
where this pimp is from
1042
00:51:47,371 --> 00:51:49,205
And takes you
into everything
1043
00:51:49,207 --> 00:51:50,606
This pimp has gone through
1044
00:51:50,608 --> 00:51:54,443
And what has made this pimp.
1045
00:51:54,445 --> 00:51:56,178
- It was raw.
1046
00:51:56,180 --> 00:51:59,181
To be able
to write about such things
1047
00:51:59,183 --> 00:52:01,817
In a way that captures
the essence
1048
00:52:01,819 --> 00:52:03,486
Of what has transpired
1049
00:52:03,488 --> 00:52:06,489
As well as giving these events
a certain literary flair
1050
00:52:06,491 --> 00:52:10,526
Is, I think,
what makes pimp stand out.
1051
00:52:10,528 --> 00:52:13,229
- Unrelentingly brutal.
1052
00:52:13,231 --> 00:52:17,466
And iceberg slim's writing
is so vivid and so clear,
1053
00:52:17,468 --> 00:52:22,538
He makes it all inescapable.
1054
00:52:22,540 --> 00:52:24,740
- The whole book's gripping.
1055
00:52:24,742 --> 00:52:27,143
You cannot put it down.
1056
00:52:27,145 --> 00:52:29,612
- The shit was so deep--
written in deep slang,
1057
00:52:29,614 --> 00:52:31,614
You know, a lot of people
even heard that
1058
00:52:31,616 --> 00:52:34,550
And didn't know what the fuck
iceberg was talking about,
1059
00:52:34,552 --> 00:52:37,353
And that was the cool part
about it, you know.
1060
00:52:37,355 --> 00:52:39,421
- His publisher didn't
understand the damn book.
1061
00:52:39,423 --> 00:52:43,425
I said to him,
these terms that you use,
1062
00:52:43,427 --> 00:52:44,894
Catching, blowing, tricking,
1063
00:52:44,896 --> 00:52:46,595
Bitches, bottom woman.
1064
00:52:46,597 --> 00:52:48,330
I don't understand
what you're talking about.
1065
00:52:48,332 --> 00:52:51,167
- So I asked bob
1066
00:52:51,169 --> 00:52:54,537
Would he endeavor
to compile
1067
00:52:54,539 --> 00:52:56,338
A section of glossary
1068
00:52:56,340 --> 00:52:58,474
In definition
of some of the phrases.
1069
00:52:58,476 --> 00:53:00,242
He said
he'd be delighted to.
1070
00:53:00,244 --> 00:53:02,878
- Chili pimp is defined
as a small time pimp,
1071
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,781
Probably only has
one ho working for him
1072
00:53:05,783 --> 00:53:07,416
And he's new to the game.
1073
00:53:07,418 --> 00:53:10,252
The bottom bitch
is the pimp's main woman
1074
00:53:10,254 --> 00:53:12,922
Who runs all the other hos.
1075
00:53:12,924 --> 00:53:16,792
Vic or a trick,
that's a mark or a victim.
1076
00:53:16,794 --> 00:53:18,360
Why a trick?
1077
00:53:18,362 --> 00:53:19,962
The trick pays for something
1078
00:53:19,964 --> 00:53:21,764
That a real man
gets for free.
1079
00:53:21,766 --> 00:53:23,632
That's the trick of it.
1080
00:53:23,634 --> 00:53:25,834
- And then when he did that
and I reread the book--
1081
00:53:25,836 --> 00:53:28,437
And I reread it
many, many, many times--
1082
00:53:28,439 --> 00:53:30,940
And I had the glossary
to refer to,
1083
00:53:30,942 --> 00:53:33,542
I felt I knew
what I was reading.
1084
00:53:33,544 --> 00:53:39,882
- He really laid out
the etiquette of the pimp,
1085
00:53:39,884 --> 00:53:42,651
The gentleman of leisure.
1086
00:53:42,653 --> 00:53:45,754
You know, how flamboyant
and how fly
1087
00:53:45,756 --> 00:53:48,324
Can this lifestyle be?
1088
00:53:48,326 --> 00:53:50,559
- There was obviously
a romantic element
1089
00:53:50,561 --> 00:53:53,562
That appealed
to a young black man
1090
00:53:53,564 --> 00:53:56,665
Of, gee, that'd be
a great life to have.
1091
00:53:56,667 --> 00:53:58,767
- The way he articulates
his words
1092
00:53:58,769 --> 00:54:01,503
And through his lifestyle,
1093
00:54:01,505 --> 00:54:03,639
It makes pimping seem fun.
1094
00:54:03,641 --> 00:54:04,873
It makes pimping seem like
1095
00:54:04,875 --> 00:54:06,642
It's the coolest shit
in the world.
1096
00:54:06,644 --> 00:54:08,777
But really it's not.
It's a tough sport.
1097
00:54:08,779 --> 00:54:11,480
- When you're
street poisoned,
1098
00:54:11,482 --> 00:54:18,020
A youngster reads the book
and he rationalizes.
1099
00:54:18,022 --> 00:54:23,792
You see, we must have
a rationale for stupidity.
1100
00:54:23,794 --> 00:54:25,628
Any time
we do something stupid,
1101
00:54:25,630 --> 00:54:28,631
We first got to
convince ourselves
1102
00:54:28,633 --> 00:54:30,799
That we got to do
that stupid thing.
1103
00:54:30,801 --> 00:54:31,967
So they rationalize.
1104
00:54:31,969 --> 00:54:35,638
Oh, this stud,
I'm hipper than this.
1105
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,007
I won't get cracked,
you know.
1106
00:54:38,009 --> 00:54:39,908
I won't get caught.
1107
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:42,278
I won't go to the joint.
I won't go to the penitentiary.
1108
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,313
I won't use drugs.
1109
00:54:44,315 --> 00:54:45,714
I won't use heroin.
I won't get hooked.
1110
00:54:45,716 --> 00:54:47,316
I won't be a junkie.
1111
00:54:47,318 --> 00:54:49,051
I'll be cooler, you know.
1112
00:54:49,053 --> 00:54:51,553
Sure, the dude is righteous,
1113
00:54:51,555 --> 00:54:54,356
But I'm more righteous,
you know.
1114
00:54:54,358 --> 00:54:55,924
I'm more together
than this dude.
1115
00:54:55,926 --> 00:54:59,295
This dude is old, you know.
1116
00:54:59,297 --> 00:55:00,729
You see?
This is the rationale.
1117
00:55:00,731 --> 00:55:02,064
That's unfortunate.
1118
00:55:02,066 --> 00:55:08,904
In l.A., where I've been
living the last 10 years,
1119
00:55:08,906 --> 00:55:14,910
Just hordes of youngsters
approach me on the street,
1120
00:55:14,912 --> 00:55:19,348
And they try
to pick my brain
1121
00:55:19,350 --> 00:55:21,917
For the hidden treasures
1122
00:55:21,919 --> 00:55:25,020
They think are buried
inside my skull.
1123
00:55:25,022 --> 00:55:29,091
And I always
slap their wrist
1124
00:55:29,093 --> 00:55:30,526
Before they reach for it.
1125
00:55:30,528 --> 00:55:33,662
- He just wanted
young black people
1126
00:55:33,664 --> 00:55:39,001
To realize that your head
can help you
1127
00:55:39,003 --> 00:55:41,870
Get on a higher plane.
1128
00:55:41,872 --> 00:55:48,344
And he de-glamourized it.
1129
00:55:48,346 --> 00:55:51,847
He took all the glamour
out of that.
1130
00:55:51,849 --> 00:55:55,551
- We felt this was gonna be
an unusual book,
1131
00:55:55,553 --> 00:55:57,720
And so we pursued
unusual methods.
1132
00:55:57,722 --> 00:56:00,823
And there was a chap
by the name of joe pyne
1133
00:56:00,825 --> 00:56:03,058
On kttv
1134
00:56:03,060 --> 00:56:06,829
Who ran wild interviews
1135
00:56:06,831 --> 00:56:09,465
Of the most bizarre
and off-beat people,
1136
00:56:09,467 --> 00:56:12,101
But he had
an incredible audience.
1137
00:56:12,103 --> 00:56:14,903
And so we called kttv
1138
00:56:14,905 --> 00:56:18,006
And presented to them the
possibility of this author.
1139
00:56:18,008 --> 00:56:20,642
Would he like to do
an interview?
1140
00:56:20,644 --> 00:56:24,446
He put him on,
and all hell broke loose.
1141
00:56:26,516 --> 00:56:28,851
- This is not one of
the reverend's evil spirits.
1142
00:56:28,853 --> 00:56:31,620
Our guest masquerades
under the name of iceberg slim.
1143
00:56:31,622 --> 00:56:33,856
Many of you
remember his story
1144
00:56:33,858 --> 00:56:35,824
Of his days
as a procurer
1145
00:56:35,826 --> 00:56:38,494
Or if you will a pimp.
1146
00:56:38,496 --> 00:56:41,163
Now he leads
a respectable family life.
1147
00:56:41,165 --> 00:56:43,532
Iceberg slim
has gone straight.
1148
00:56:43,534 --> 00:56:46,735
For this reason, he continues
to hide his identity.
1149
00:56:46,737 --> 00:56:48,837
It really pained you
to go straight.
1150
00:56:48,839 --> 00:56:51,673
- Oh, yes. This is
a better bag, as they say.
1151
00:56:51,675 --> 00:56:53,842
(audience laughs)
1152
00:56:53,844 --> 00:56:55,043
- You don't miss
all that excitement, huh?
1153
00:56:55,045 --> 00:56:56,578
- Oh, of course not.
1154
00:56:56,580 --> 00:56:58,514
I mean...
1155
00:56:58,516 --> 00:57:00,416
- You get to keep
your money now.
1156
00:57:00,418 --> 00:57:02,684
- That's right, and pimpis a runaway best seller.
1157
00:57:02,686 --> 00:57:03,852
- Is that right?
1158
00:57:03,854 --> 00:57:06,889
- They can't keep them
on the stands.
1159
00:57:06,891 --> 00:57:10,058
- We couldn't keep
the phones silent.
1160
00:57:10,060 --> 00:57:13,929
We didn't have time
to punch 911 if we had to
1161
00:57:13,931 --> 00:57:15,931
'cause calls were coming in.
1162
00:57:15,933 --> 00:57:17,933
Where can I buy the book?
1163
00:57:17,935 --> 00:57:20,002
When we got
that box of books
1164
00:57:20,004 --> 00:57:22,738
And he brought 'em home
with pimp,
1165
00:57:22,740 --> 00:57:25,674
You should have seen
the dance that I did.
1166
00:57:25,676 --> 00:57:27,676
And I said,
I told you, goddammit.
1167
00:57:27,678 --> 00:57:29,011
Look at this.
1168
00:57:29,013 --> 00:57:30,846
Didn't I tell you
this was a book?
1169
00:57:30,848 --> 00:57:33,782
Didn't I tell you?
1170
00:57:33,784 --> 00:57:36,785
And he said, so what
should be the next one?
1171
00:57:36,787 --> 00:57:37,986
- He returns now
1172
00:57:37,988 --> 00:57:40,722
To tell us about
the most incredible con man
1173
00:57:40,724 --> 00:57:42,224
He ever knew:
1174
00:57:42,226 --> 00:57:43,959
A blonde-haired,
blue-eyed negro
1175
00:57:43,961 --> 00:57:45,794
Called white folks.
1176
00:57:45,796 --> 00:57:47,463
You're not putting us on,
are you, slim?
1177
00:57:47,465 --> 00:57:50,065
- No, that's factual.
1178
00:57:50,067 --> 00:57:51,800
- One of the things
1179
00:57:51,802 --> 00:57:54,736
That slim is incredibly
brilliant at doing
1180
00:57:54,738 --> 00:57:57,172
Is being able
to impersonate
1181
00:57:57,174 --> 00:57:59,808
The voices
of many people at once.
1182
00:57:59,810 --> 00:58:01,944
- How did he get that name?
1183
00:58:01,946 --> 00:58:03,679
Because of the fact that
he could pass over the line,
1184
00:58:03,681 --> 00:58:05,147
Of the color line?
1185
00:58:05,149 --> 00:58:07,516
- That's right.
1186
00:58:07,518 --> 00:58:09,117
"white folks"
was a term applied to him
1187
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:10,886
By his friends.
1188
00:58:10,888 --> 00:58:13,956
His enemies
in the black ghetto
1189
00:58:13,958 --> 00:58:15,958
Called him trick baby.
1190
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,227
- The name of your book
is trick baby.
1191
00:58:18,229 --> 00:58:19,695
- That's right.
1192
00:58:19,697 --> 00:58:21,096
- Here's what's great
about trick baby.
1193
00:58:21,098 --> 00:58:22,598
It's the structure of it.
1194
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:24,900
Because
what it starts with is
1195
00:58:24,902 --> 00:58:28,604
Iceberg himself
being in a jail cell.
1196
00:58:28,606 --> 00:58:30,772
And in comes what seems
to this white cat
1197
00:58:30,774 --> 00:58:35,744
And then, iceberg then
proceeds to tell you this story,
1198
00:58:35,746 --> 00:58:38,814
But the story is told
from first person
1199
00:58:38,816 --> 00:58:40,549
From white folks
point of view.
1200
00:58:40,551 --> 00:58:42,050
- Iceberg slim's talent
1201
00:58:42,052 --> 00:58:44,920
Is the ability,
the uncanny ability
1202
00:58:44,922 --> 00:58:48,857
To be able to memorize
these snippets of conversation
1203
00:58:48,859 --> 00:58:50,192
That he's had
throughout his life
1204
00:58:50,194 --> 00:58:55,097
And construct them into
narratives and characters.
1205
00:58:55,099 --> 00:59:00,002
- The book is
an incredible adventure story
1206
00:59:00,004 --> 00:59:03,038
Of the con as
it's played in the street.
1207
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:04,573
- And, I might add,
1208
00:59:04,575 --> 00:59:06,141
Because it's told
in first person,
1209
00:59:06,143 --> 00:59:08,610
It's classic noir structure.
1210
00:59:08,612 --> 00:59:10,112
- I haven't had a chance
to read this,
1211
00:59:10,114 --> 00:59:11,647
But he knows
I read his other one
1212
00:59:11,649 --> 00:59:13,682
And I just got this one
at this moment.
1213
00:59:13,684 --> 00:59:15,751
If this is anything
like your first book,
1214
00:59:15,753 --> 00:59:17,719
It ought to really do well.
1215
00:59:17,721 --> 00:59:20,756
- When a book
reaches the level
1216
00:59:20,758 --> 00:59:23,559
Of a motion picture,
1217
00:59:23,561 --> 00:59:27,663
The capability
for exploitation is enormous.
1218
00:59:27,665 --> 00:59:33,669
In 1972,
trick baby became a film.
1219
00:59:33,671 --> 00:59:35,270
- Trick baby,
1220
00:59:35,272 --> 00:59:37,306
Iceberg slim's
best selling gut story
1221
00:59:37,308 --> 00:59:38,974
Of the world of the con,
1222
00:59:38,976 --> 00:59:41,143
The hustlers,
the high-rollers,
1223
00:59:41,145 --> 00:59:42,945
And the hatchet men
who made it up.
1224
00:59:42,947 --> 00:59:45,013
- His white skin
gives us a slick edge.
1225
00:59:45,015 --> 00:59:47,683
I catch the black marks,
he catches the honeys.
1226
00:59:47,685 --> 00:59:49,651
- Trick baby:Iceberg slim wrote it
1227
00:59:49,653 --> 00:59:51,653
The way he lived it.
1228
00:59:51,655 --> 00:59:53,255
It's his world,
sometimes brutal,
1229
00:59:53,257 --> 00:59:54,890
But always real.
1230
00:59:54,892 --> 00:59:56,959
Rated "r."
1231
00:59:56,961 --> 00:59:58,327
See it.
1232
00:59:58,329 --> 01:00:01,296
Trick baby came out
in January 1973
1233
01:00:01,298 --> 01:00:02,965
From universal pictures
1234
01:00:02,967 --> 01:00:05,834
And was really
one of the first
1235
01:00:05,836 --> 01:00:07,603
So-called
blaxploitation films
1236
01:00:07,605 --> 01:00:10,639
To be based on
a true story.
1237
01:00:10,641 --> 01:00:12,074
- I wasn't really a fan
1238
01:00:12,076 --> 01:00:14,309
Of the black exploitation
films that I'd seen,
1239
01:00:14,311 --> 01:00:17,946
And I didn't consider
trick baby to be one.
1240
01:00:17,948 --> 01:00:20,983
It was a con man story.
1241
01:00:20,985 --> 01:00:22,317
- There were lines
of pimps and hustlers
1242
01:00:22,319 --> 01:00:24,152
Around the block
in every city
1243
01:00:24,154 --> 01:00:25,854
To see this film.
1244
01:00:25,856 --> 01:00:30,225
- We got $25,000
from universal,
1245
01:00:30,227 --> 01:00:32,294
And he came home with it.
1246
01:00:32,296 --> 01:00:34,363
He cashed the check
1247
01:00:34,365 --> 01:00:36,865
And brought it
all in cash, naturally.
1248
01:00:36,867 --> 01:00:42,237
And he threw a full-length
white mink coat
1249
01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:44,306
Out on the bed
1250
01:00:44,308 --> 01:00:47,809
And then
all these $100 bills.
1251
01:00:47,811 --> 01:00:51,813
He said, so what
do you think of that?
1252
01:00:51,815 --> 01:00:54,950
And I said, we can
get the hell out of this house.
1253
01:00:54,952 --> 01:00:56,752
And I said,
and what is this?
1254
01:00:56,754 --> 01:00:58,387
He said, a white mink coat.
1255
01:00:58,389 --> 01:01:01,289
And I said, I never told you
I wanted a white mink coat.
1256
01:01:01,291 --> 01:01:02,891
I don't like coats.
1257
01:01:02,893 --> 01:01:05,761
You're gonna wear this one.
1258
01:01:05,763 --> 01:01:08,830
So I got
a $10,000 white mink coat.
1259
01:01:08,832 --> 01:01:13,669
- I never saw robert
in a state of euphoria.
1260
01:01:13,671 --> 01:01:18,006
It was all very even,
1261
01:01:18,008 --> 01:01:21,376
But he went from
this platform of literati
1262
01:01:21,378 --> 01:01:24,880
Into film.
1263
01:01:24,882 --> 01:01:28,183
He experienced
that moment in the sun.
1264
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:39,461
- Well, I actually
tried to pimp
1265
01:01:39,463 --> 01:01:41,229
With an iceberg slim book.
1266
01:01:41,231 --> 01:01:44,433
I'll never forget one time,
one of my partners named gary,
1267
01:01:44,435 --> 01:01:45,901
We had some hos, you know.
1268
01:01:45,903 --> 01:01:47,235
So I got
in my little pimp suit,
1269
01:01:47,237 --> 01:01:48,403
You know what I'm saying?
1270
01:01:48,405 --> 01:01:51,006
So we showed up,
so, you know.
1271
01:01:51,008 --> 01:01:52,908
We chopping 'em.
We, like, yeah, baby.
1272
01:01:52,910 --> 01:01:54,009
You know,
we real live pimping.
1273
01:01:54,011 --> 01:01:55,877
You know, it's pimping
jumping off.
1274
01:01:55,879 --> 01:01:57,879
But these was real hos,
so they'd been around pimps.
1275
01:01:57,881 --> 01:01:59,414
So of course they knew,
you know.
1276
01:01:59,416 --> 01:02:01,083
So we trying to pimp on 'em,
1277
01:02:01,085 --> 01:02:03,785
And, you know, in the middle
of the pimping,
1278
01:02:03,787 --> 01:02:05,087
We running into
the other room,
1279
01:02:05,089 --> 01:02:07,823
Breaking iceberg slim
books open, like, yo,
1280
01:02:07,825 --> 01:02:09,391
And then running back.
Yo, bitch.
1281
01:02:09,393 --> 01:02:11,793
What the hell?
You bitch, you know.
1282
01:02:11,795 --> 01:02:15,764
And they, like, how long
have you been doing this?
1283
01:02:15,766 --> 01:02:18,200
The next day,
the two hos woke up
1284
01:02:18,202 --> 01:02:20,001
And stole his car.
1285
01:02:35,384 --> 01:02:38,386
- After he wrote trick babyin 1967,
1286
01:02:38,388 --> 01:02:42,324
He published
mama black widow in 1969,
1287
01:02:42,326 --> 01:02:45,927
The story of
an african-american homosexual.
1288
01:02:45,929 --> 01:02:49,264
- Homosexuality
in those days was taboo.
1289
01:02:49,266 --> 01:02:51,299
If you were in the closet,
you were in the closet.
1290
01:02:51,301 --> 01:02:52,901
- He really took
those characters
1291
01:02:52,903 --> 01:02:54,903
From the depths of society
1292
01:02:54,905 --> 01:02:57,405
And brought them
to the audience that he had.
1293
01:02:57,407 --> 01:03:00,041
- I was especially interested
in his book of essays,
1294
01:03:00,043 --> 01:03:02,544
The naked soulof iceberg slim,
1295
01:03:02,546 --> 01:03:04,479
Which was
a collection of his thoughts
1296
01:03:04,481 --> 01:03:08,116
On political
and cultural issues.
1297
01:03:08,118 --> 01:03:10,819
- He also has
a letter to his father,
1298
01:03:10,821 --> 01:03:14,489
In which
he tries to invite him
1299
01:03:14,491 --> 01:03:17,225
Back into his life.
1300
01:03:17,227 --> 01:03:21,429
- Some of the chapters,
if you read them intensely,
1301
01:03:21,431 --> 01:03:24,432
Literally draws tears
'cause they're so confessional.
1302
01:03:24,434 --> 01:03:26,268
- After the naked soulof iceberg slim,
1303
01:03:26,270 --> 01:03:30,038
He publishes death wishin 1977.
1304
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:31,973
It's a story
about the mafia.
1305
01:03:31,975 --> 01:03:35,010
He shows
an artistic maturity
1306
01:03:35,012 --> 01:03:38,380
By being able
to envision lives
1307
01:03:38,382 --> 01:03:41,116
That he did not necessarily
directly have contact with.
1308
01:03:41,118 --> 01:03:45,020
- In the book,
the character trick baby
1309
01:03:45,022 --> 01:03:47,589
Basically is willing to play
a deep hustle
1310
01:03:47,591 --> 01:03:49,124
Or a deep con.
1311
01:03:49,126 --> 01:03:52,194
After reading the books,
1312
01:03:52,196 --> 01:03:55,430
Somebody said,
you know dude got an album.
1313
01:03:55,432 --> 01:03:57,432
I'm, like, what?
1314
01:03:57,434 --> 01:04:00,602
- ♪ I was stalking hos
in the center of town ♪
1315
01:04:00,604 --> 01:04:03,605
♪ right in the middle
of the square ♪
1316
01:04:03,607 --> 01:04:06,608
♪ waiting for my man
1317
01:04:06,610 --> 01:04:10,345
♪ 'cause I had a plan
to cop some reefer there ♪
1318
01:04:10,347 --> 01:04:14,049
♪ and I was flying
fairly high ♪
1319
01:04:14,051 --> 01:04:17,118
♪ just standing there
digging the hos ♪
1320
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:18,620
- Oh, shit.
1321
01:04:18,622 --> 01:04:21,323
I mean, it was just, like,
his voice
1322
01:04:21,325 --> 01:04:24,993
And the way he--
bitch, dry your tears.
1323
01:04:24,995 --> 01:04:29,130
Now we had a voice
to add to the words.
1324
01:04:31,133 --> 01:04:34,603
As kids, picking that
little bit of life up
1325
01:04:34,605 --> 01:04:37,072
Changed our whole style.
1326
01:04:37,074 --> 01:04:39,341
We got turned out.
1327
01:04:39,343 --> 01:04:42,510
I mean, my whole crew
got turned out.
1328
01:04:42,512 --> 01:04:46,548
- The very life
that had shaped him
1329
01:04:46,550 --> 01:04:48,550
And the very life
that he could then turn around
1330
01:04:48,552 --> 01:04:51,620
And write in a literary way
and reflect on,
1331
01:04:51,622 --> 01:04:55,523
Which should have then
catapulted him out of that life,
1332
01:04:55,525 --> 01:04:57,259
At the same time, then,
1333
01:04:57,261 --> 01:05:01,596
Because he's writing for
a third tier house,
1334
01:05:01,598 --> 01:05:04,165
Even though
those books are selling,
1335
01:05:04,167 --> 01:05:07,302
He has to still then
step back into the life
1336
01:05:07,304 --> 01:05:08,937
Just to put food
on the table
1337
01:05:08,939 --> 01:05:11,006
At the same time
that he's writing about it.
1338
01:05:11,008 --> 01:05:12,173
That's, like,
the double life,
1339
01:05:12,175 --> 01:05:14,109
The double life
of robert beck.
1340
01:05:14,111 --> 01:05:17,345
- The first time
I really saw slim
1341
01:05:17,347 --> 01:05:18,947
Was in the parisian room
1342
01:05:18,949 --> 01:05:22,183
On la brea and washington
here in los angeles.
1343
01:05:22,185 --> 01:05:24,152
And he would sit there,
1344
01:05:24,154 --> 01:05:25,487
And then
his ladies would come in
1345
01:05:25,489 --> 01:05:27,656
And they would
give him money.
1346
01:05:27,658 --> 01:05:30,125
But one night,
I hear this commotion.
1347
01:05:30,127 --> 01:05:31,526
I run back there
in the back
1348
01:05:31,528 --> 01:05:33,929
To see what is going on,
you know.
1349
01:05:33,931 --> 01:05:36,031
He said, this bitch
bring me 50 fucking dollars
1350
01:05:36,033 --> 01:05:37,565
And she been gone all day.
1351
01:05:37,567 --> 01:05:39,968
And he said, bitch,
1352
01:05:39,970 --> 01:05:41,970
Where in the fuck
you been all day?
1353
01:05:41,972 --> 01:05:44,339
She said, well,
I had my period
1354
01:05:44,341 --> 01:05:47,342
And I just
didn't feel well.
1355
01:05:47,344 --> 01:05:50,011
He said, you ain't got
lockjaw, have you?
1356
01:05:50,013 --> 01:05:52,113
- You think
he was still pimping?
1357
01:05:52,115 --> 01:05:54,549
Because someone
told you that, huh?
1358
01:05:54,551 --> 01:05:56,184
Pimping who?
1359
01:05:56,186 --> 01:05:59,554
What would be the reason,
though? The purpose?
1360
01:05:59,556 --> 01:06:01,256
Like, a stable of girls
1361
01:06:01,258 --> 01:06:04,993
Going out and--
who told you that?
1362
01:06:04,995 --> 01:06:08,997
He used to move, like,
these hookers into the house.
1363
01:06:08,999 --> 01:06:10,465
- Well, they were
his assistants.
1364
01:06:10,467 --> 01:06:12,534
- They were, like,
supposed to be assistants--
1365
01:06:12,536 --> 01:06:13,969
- Or publicists.
1366
01:06:13,971 --> 01:06:20,475
- But there was a lot of
traffic between the rooms.
1367
01:06:20,477 --> 01:06:24,980
- I'd have to say 150%
that is not true.
1368
01:06:24,982 --> 01:06:26,715
My mom was psychotic.
1369
01:06:26,717 --> 01:06:28,416
There is no way--
1370
01:06:28,418 --> 01:06:30,251
I mean, yeah,
he had sex with other women,
1371
01:06:30,253 --> 01:06:32,253
But making money
off of them?
1372
01:06:32,255 --> 01:06:35,557
Mm-mmm. Reformed.
1373
01:06:37,727 --> 01:06:39,260
- Airtight willie & me,
1374
01:06:39,262 --> 01:06:41,396
A collection
of short stories,
1375
01:06:41,398 --> 01:06:43,365
Is his last book to be
published by holloway house
1376
01:06:43,367 --> 01:06:45,200
In 1979.
1377
01:06:45,202 --> 01:06:48,203
- For each one
of those books,
1378
01:06:48,205 --> 01:06:52,707
We were getting advances
from bentley.
1379
01:06:52,709 --> 01:06:56,378
And then royalties
1380
01:06:56,380 --> 01:07:00,215
And bentley would pay whatever
he wanted to on royalties.
1381
01:07:00,217 --> 01:07:02,083
- Well, the royalty statements
of holloway house
1382
01:07:02,085 --> 01:07:05,220
Are really comical because
you know that they're a farce
1383
01:07:05,222 --> 01:07:08,790
And they have no bearing
to any kind of reality.
1384
01:07:08,792 --> 01:07:12,627
I'm happy when my, you know,
when my beer money comes
1385
01:07:12,629 --> 01:07:14,496
In the form
of my royalty check.
1386
01:07:14,498 --> 01:07:16,564
- Well, we were
a small house.
1387
01:07:16,566 --> 01:07:21,102
We had very modest
type of financing.
1388
01:07:21,104 --> 01:07:25,707
We'd lay it on the line
to the author,
1389
01:07:25,709 --> 01:07:27,542
This is what we pay,
1390
01:07:27,544 --> 01:07:30,145
And if you can live with it,
1391
01:07:30,147 --> 01:07:32,714
We'll become partners.
1392
01:07:32,716 --> 01:07:37,052
It was never that an author
was working for holloway.
1393
01:07:37,054 --> 01:07:40,055
It was always a partnership.
1394
01:07:40,057 --> 01:07:44,559
- How many authors did not
take you up on your offer?
1395
01:07:44,561 --> 01:07:46,361
- None.
1396
01:07:46,363 --> 01:07:49,197
- There's a story
told about bentley
1397
01:07:49,199 --> 01:07:52,333
Where one of his writers
goes to him.
1398
01:07:52,335 --> 01:07:54,135
Listen, I know
you're cheating me
1399
01:07:54,137 --> 01:07:56,104
And you need
to pay me more.
1400
01:07:56,106 --> 01:07:59,207
And bentley
sat behind his desk
1401
01:07:59,209 --> 01:08:02,844
Got up,
walked to his window,
1402
01:08:02,846 --> 01:08:05,513
Looked down at the street,
down at melrose below
1403
01:08:05,515 --> 01:08:06,581
At the cars going by
1404
01:08:06,583 --> 01:08:10,251
And saying, you see
that street out there?
1405
01:08:10,253 --> 01:08:11,586
Yes.
1406
01:08:11,588 --> 01:08:15,356
You know, there are scores
of writers down there.
1407
01:08:15,358 --> 01:08:16,758
I could throw a rock
down there
1408
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,160
And kill 20 writers.
1409
01:08:19,162 --> 01:08:22,297
I don't need you,
you know.
1410
01:08:22,299 --> 01:08:25,233
If you want to continue
to be published by me,
1411
01:08:25,235 --> 01:08:28,503
You shut the fuck up
and take what I give you.
1412
01:08:28,505 --> 01:08:29,671
- He sent me down there
1413
01:08:29,673 --> 01:08:32,740
When bentley
had to be motherfucked
1414
01:08:32,742 --> 01:08:37,545
'cause bentley wouldn't send
the goddamn royalty checks out.
1415
01:08:37,547 --> 01:08:41,249
- Then he started
looking at the breakdown sheets
1416
01:08:41,251 --> 01:08:44,586
And he was, like,
they sold?
1417
01:08:44,588 --> 01:08:47,589
But the checks don't add up.
- Don't reflect it.
1418
01:08:47,591 --> 01:08:51,593
- Don't add up to the numbers
of books that are sold.
1419
01:08:51,595 --> 01:08:56,131
- They always received
the amount of money
1420
01:08:56,133 --> 01:08:57,332
That they should
have received.
1421
01:08:57,334 --> 01:08:58,867
We did an honest job.
1422
01:08:58,869 --> 01:09:02,203
We never took advantage
of our authors
1423
01:09:02,205 --> 01:09:03,638
Because they were,
in effect,
1424
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:05,640
Our bread and butter.
1425
01:09:05,642 --> 01:09:08,543
Holloway would receive
many calls
1426
01:09:08,545 --> 01:09:12,714
For personal appearances,
book signings, and so on,
1427
01:09:12,716 --> 01:09:15,517
And we would take advantage
of every one
1428
01:09:15,519 --> 01:09:17,852
Because it was additional
promotion and merchandising.
1429
01:09:17,854 --> 01:09:20,221
- He was definitely
out of the house a lot
1430
01:09:20,223 --> 01:09:22,490
When the books
started taking off.
1431
01:09:22,492 --> 01:09:24,726
That was the distance
between my parents
1432
01:09:24,728 --> 01:09:26,427
Was him just kind of off,
1433
01:09:26,429 --> 01:09:28,830
You know, becoming,
you know, this writer.
1434
01:09:28,832 --> 01:09:31,366
Actually a pimp again,
is what she would say.
1435
01:09:31,368 --> 01:09:33,401
You know,
he's back out there
1436
01:09:33,403 --> 01:09:37,372
And then she's left at home
with four kids.
1437
01:09:37,374 --> 01:09:38,640
She was unhappy,
1438
01:09:38,642 --> 01:09:41,342
And that made for
an unhappy union.
1439
01:09:41,344 --> 01:09:44,546
- You have no idea
what it was like.
1440
01:09:44,548 --> 01:09:46,414
I had four kids to feed,
1441
01:09:46,416 --> 01:09:49,517
Wash clothes,
house to clean,
1442
01:09:49,519 --> 01:09:51,719
Typing to do,
1443
01:09:51,721 --> 01:09:53,521
And he's been diagnosed
with diabetes,
1444
01:09:53,523 --> 01:09:56,424
So I've got that trauma
1445
01:09:56,426 --> 01:09:59,827
Taking care of him.
1446
01:09:59,829 --> 01:10:02,764
- My mom was drinking a lot,
1447
01:10:02,766 --> 01:10:05,366
And really sad and depressed
1448
01:10:05,368 --> 01:10:10,305
With my dad's philandering
around town and things.
1449
01:10:10,307 --> 01:10:11,773
I believe
a lot of depression set in
1450
01:10:11,775 --> 01:10:13,408
During that time, too.
1451
01:10:16,312 --> 01:10:18,780
- He should have been
better to me.
1452
01:10:18,782 --> 01:10:21,749
However,
he wasn't mean to me.
1453
01:10:21,751 --> 01:10:24,619
And I was the one that
always started the arguments,
1454
01:10:24,621 --> 01:10:26,454
And when they got
really heated,
1455
01:10:26,456 --> 01:10:28,690
He was the one
that would leave the house.
1456
01:10:28,692 --> 01:10:31,693
- My mother used to call
my father a god
1457
01:10:31,695 --> 01:10:33,261
When they were arguing.
1458
01:10:33,263 --> 01:10:37,465
She would say you're god,
so you must know everything.
1459
01:10:37,467 --> 01:10:39,901
And it wasn't
a term of endearment.
1460
01:10:39,903 --> 01:10:43,404
She did want a little bit
of the limelight
1461
01:10:43,406 --> 01:10:44,672
And kind of wanted
to travel
1462
01:10:44,674 --> 01:10:47,909
And do things with him.
1463
01:10:47,911 --> 01:10:50,612
She probably wanted more of
a celebration with our lives
1464
01:10:50,614 --> 01:10:52,247
As far as just, like,
1465
01:10:52,249 --> 01:10:54,482
Now we have, like,
you know, a nice house,
1466
01:10:54,484 --> 01:10:56,818
And it only made him
more distant.
1467
01:10:56,820 --> 01:11:00,822
- He was a total loner.
1468
01:11:00,824 --> 01:11:02,423
The only one that he had
1469
01:11:02,425 --> 01:11:04,559
That came
on a consistent basis
1470
01:11:04,561 --> 01:11:06,561
Was r.G. Armstrong.
1471
01:11:06,563 --> 01:11:09,264
And he and r.G.
Used to sit in there
1472
01:11:09,266 --> 01:11:11,699
And write movie scripts.
1473
01:11:11,701 --> 01:11:14,335
I said, bob, why aren't you
writing a novel?
1474
01:11:14,337 --> 01:11:16,537
You haven't written a damn thing
since we've been in the house.
1475
01:11:16,539 --> 01:11:18,506
Why aren't you writing?
1476
01:11:18,508 --> 01:11:20,308
How many more times
I have to go up there
1477
01:11:20,310 --> 01:11:21,876
And motherfuck that jew
1478
01:11:21,878 --> 01:11:23,945
And make him give me
some more money
1479
01:11:23,947 --> 01:11:26,848
To feed these children?
1480
01:11:26,850 --> 01:11:30,451
And then I got
a part time job.
1481
01:11:30,453 --> 01:11:33,521
And then he quit writing
altogether.
1482
01:11:33,523 --> 01:11:36,291
And I told him,
I said, uh-uh. No, baby.
1483
01:11:36,293 --> 01:11:39,427
We ain't pimping me,
all right?
1484
01:11:39,429 --> 01:11:42,830
I never paid a man's rent
in my life,
1485
01:11:42,832 --> 01:11:45,033
And I goddamn sure
don't intend
1486
01:11:45,035 --> 01:11:47,368
To start paying yours now.
1487
01:11:47,370 --> 01:11:51,372
You either do
what you know how to do,
1488
01:11:51,374 --> 01:11:54,542
And let's get some money
rolling in here,
1489
01:11:54,544 --> 01:11:56,844
Or you lay here
on your dead ass
1490
01:11:56,846 --> 01:11:59,514
And I'm moving out
with my children.
1491
01:11:59,516 --> 01:12:01,516
And I did.
1492
01:12:08,824 --> 01:12:10,625
- He didn't want to leave
his family.
1493
01:12:10,627 --> 01:12:12,460
That's all he had.
1494
01:12:12,462 --> 01:12:15,797
That's all he worked for
was us.
1495
01:12:15,799 --> 01:12:17,832
- Yeah, I think my mom--
- he didn't just do that--
1496
01:12:17,834 --> 01:12:19,367
Hold on. Hold on.
1497
01:12:19,369 --> 01:12:21,369
- I think she's the one
that wanted to leave town.
1498
01:12:21,371 --> 01:12:24,839
- He didn't do that shit
for any other reason
1499
01:12:24,841 --> 01:12:26,908
But for his kids
and his woman.
1500
01:12:26,910 --> 01:12:28,443
- Mm-hmm.
1501
01:12:28,445 --> 01:12:30,778
- And he had to leave
because of her,
1502
01:12:30,780 --> 01:12:33,414
Because she was crazy
and she was out of her mind.
1503
01:12:33,416 --> 01:12:40,521
- My father didn't know how
to be in a relationship,
1504
01:12:40,523 --> 01:12:44,359
Whether it's with a woman,
with a buddy,
1505
01:12:44,361 --> 01:12:46,794
I mean,
certainly not children.
1506
01:12:50,532 --> 01:12:53,534
- I still
have not been able
1507
01:12:53,536 --> 01:12:56,471
To unearth what it was,
1508
01:12:56,473 --> 01:12:59,707
But there was some need
that he had for me
1509
01:12:59,709 --> 01:13:03,845
That just crushed him
when I left.
1510
01:13:03,847 --> 01:13:08,383
'cause he didn't think
I was gonna do it.
1511
01:13:08,385 --> 01:13:11,519
He just did not believe
that I would leave him.
1512
01:13:46,021 --> 01:13:47,688
- Toward the latter years,
1513
01:13:47,690 --> 01:13:49,757
He was living
in a one-room efficiency
1514
01:13:49,759 --> 01:13:52,460
Over at 48th and crenshaw.
1515
01:13:52,462 --> 01:13:54,629
The sugar diabetes
had taken its toll,
1516
01:13:54,631 --> 01:13:56,197
And he was married
at that time
1517
01:13:56,199 --> 01:13:59,000
To another woman.
1518
01:13:59,002 --> 01:14:01,436
- After I read death wish,
1519
01:14:01,438 --> 01:14:04,505
I wrote him a letter
thanking him for writing it
1520
01:14:04,507 --> 01:14:07,775
And I never expected
a response.
1521
01:14:07,777 --> 01:14:10,912
Oh, I had put
my phone number in the letter,
1522
01:14:10,914 --> 01:14:13,214
And a couple weeks later
he called
1523
01:14:13,216 --> 01:14:15,550
And we just started talking.
1524
01:14:15,552 --> 01:14:18,920
- But he only let her
come by and visit.
1525
01:14:18,922 --> 01:14:22,089
We was more in isolation,
1526
01:14:22,091 --> 01:14:24,792
Almost in seclusion.
1527
01:14:24,794 --> 01:14:27,595
- I think his health
was really deteriorating,
1528
01:14:27,597 --> 01:14:30,665
And it was happening
for some time,
1529
01:14:30,667 --> 01:14:32,700
I wanna say
a good six years
1530
01:14:32,702 --> 01:14:35,570
Where he was
going through dialysis.
1531
01:14:35,572 --> 01:14:37,839
Once your body
is failing on you,
1532
01:14:37,841 --> 01:14:41,742
That pretty much takes away
from your creativity.
1533
01:14:41,744 --> 01:14:44,846
But, you know,
he really did
1534
01:14:44,848 --> 01:14:47,548
Care about what
was going on in the world.
1535
01:14:47,550 --> 01:14:49,684
It was really important,
world events.
1536
01:14:49,686 --> 01:14:51,853
It was really important
that we had the tools
1537
01:14:51,855 --> 01:14:54,021
To enter whatever
was happening in the world.
1538
01:14:54,023 --> 01:14:56,791
- You have to have
a realization
1539
01:14:56,793 --> 01:15:01,696
That when you exploit
your own kind,
1540
01:15:01,698 --> 01:15:05,032
That you are in effect
counter-revolutionary.
1541
01:15:05,034 --> 01:15:07,568
That you are hobbling
and crippling
1542
01:15:07,570 --> 01:15:08,870
The struggle
of black people,
1543
01:15:08,872 --> 01:15:10,638
Of freedom and dignity.
1544
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:13,808
- He was my god.
Are you kidding me?
1545
01:15:13,810 --> 01:15:15,610
I knew
that he knew shit
1546
01:15:15,612 --> 01:15:19,747
That people...Don't know.
1547
01:15:19,749 --> 01:15:22,149
Don't know,
would never figure out,
1548
01:15:22,151 --> 01:15:23,718
Or even try.
1549
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:24,986
Because they didn't have to.
1550
01:15:24,988 --> 01:15:27,154
Because they had
a support system,
1551
01:15:27,156 --> 01:15:29,190
Something that he never had.
1552
01:15:29,192 --> 01:15:31,626
I mean, when
I got arrested that time--
1553
01:15:31,628 --> 01:15:32,693
That was the only time
1554
01:15:32,695 --> 01:15:34,295
I was arrested
when he was alive.
1555
01:15:34,297 --> 01:15:35,997
It's been many times
since then.
1556
01:15:35,999 --> 01:15:38,232
- Oh, boy.
1557
01:15:38,234 --> 01:15:42,270
- Anyway, I got arrested
with 10 kilos of cocaine
1558
01:15:42,272 --> 01:15:43,905
And a million dollars cash.
1559
01:15:43,907 --> 01:15:45,806
So they called my father
1560
01:15:45,808 --> 01:15:47,875
'cause they wanted
to give me 50 years.
1561
01:15:47,877 --> 01:15:50,878
I thought that would be
a scary phone call to make,
1562
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:53,180
But it wasn't 'cause
he just took it all...
1563
01:15:53,182 --> 01:15:55,816
Uh-huh, and then
what did you have
1564
01:15:55,818 --> 01:15:57,919
In your possession,
my dear?
1565
01:15:57,921 --> 01:16:01,022
Nothing, dad.
I swear. I wouldn't lie.
1566
01:16:01,024 --> 01:16:03,224
(laughs)
1567
01:16:03,226 --> 01:16:04,926
And he was, like, okay.
1568
01:16:04,928 --> 01:16:06,294
I'm gonna call
the prosecutor right now
1569
01:16:06,296 --> 01:16:07,995
And plead your case.
1570
01:16:07,997 --> 01:16:10,831
And he did,
and I couldn't believe that.
1571
01:16:10,833 --> 01:16:12,600
And he didn't let anything
stand...
1572
01:16:12,602 --> 01:16:17,972
Get in the way of him
being able to deliver himself
1573
01:16:17,974 --> 01:16:19,874
Unto you if you needed it.
1574
01:16:19,876 --> 01:16:21,776
- He was very supportive
1575
01:16:21,778 --> 01:16:25,346
As far as, like,
giving you kind of...
1576
01:16:25,348 --> 01:16:28,015
An insight
on what will come,
1577
01:16:28,017 --> 01:16:29,917
Being a girl,
being a woman.
1578
01:16:29,919 --> 01:16:31,786
When I was a teenager,
1579
01:16:31,788 --> 01:16:33,287
I didn't want to hear
anything he had to say,
1580
01:16:33,289 --> 01:16:35,890
As any teenage girl,
1581
01:16:35,892 --> 01:16:37,258
But he was giving me love.
1582
01:16:37,260 --> 01:16:38,793
I didn't think
it was love back then.
1583
01:16:38,795 --> 01:16:40,628
I just thought he was,
you know,
1584
01:16:40,630 --> 01:16:43,631
This non-existing father.
1585
01:16:43,633 --> 01:16:46,601
But now, obviously,
yeah, that was love.
1586
01:17:13,261 --> 01:17:16,263
It was the third day
of the riots,
1587
01:17:16,265 --> 01:17:18,666
Los angeles,
with the rodney king thing.
1588
01:17:18,668 --> 01:17:20,801
And it was pretty evident
1589
01:17:20,803 --> 01:17:24,005
That my father
was not doing well.
1590
01:17:24,007 --> 01:17:25,873
- Gangrene had set in
1591
01:17:25,875 --> 01:17:27,174
Because of the diabetes
in his foot,
1592
01:17:27,176 --> 01:17:29,243
And he was gonna
have to have
1593
01:17:29,245 --> 01:17:32,146
Some parts of it amputated.
1594
01:17:32,148 --> 01:17:34,915
- Melody called me
at the office,
1595
01:17:34,917 --> 01:17:37,885
And she said
daddy's in the hospital
1596
01:17:37,887 --> 01:17:40,755
And they want
to take his leg off,
1597
01:17:40,757 --> 01:17:43,724
And he refused to let 'em
take his leg off.
1598
01:17:43,726 --> 01:17:49,163
And I said, melody,
call your dad back
1599
01:17:49,165 --> 01:17:53,234
And tell him that
I will be there to see him
1600
01:17:53,236 --> 01:17:55,703
And tell him
I said good night.
1601
01:17:55,705 --> 01:17:58,005
And he died that night.
1602
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:10,951
Every time
that I put my hand out
1603
01:18:10,953 --> 01:18:13,154
To try to show him
1604
01:18:13,156 --> 01:18:17,158
That the animosity
wasn't as strong and as raging
1605
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:21,362
As it had been
in the beginning,
1606
01:18:21,364 --> 01:18:23,864
Something bad
would happen to him.
1607
01:18:26,301 --> 01:18:28,169
- I was in France.
1608
01:18:28,171 --> 01:18:30,337
By the time I got here,
he was already dead,
1609
01:18:30,339 --> 01:18:33,140
And I knew it
when the plane hit the tarmac.
1610
01:18:36,745 --> 01:18:39,346
- I got a call from betty,
1611
01:18:39,348 --> 01:18:43,851
And she said, leon,
daddy's gone.
1612
01:19:01,336 --> 01:19:04,038
- I was one of the pallbearers
at his funeral.
1613
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:05,840
I know they never have
women pallbearers.
1614
01:19:05,842 --> 01:19:07,842
- But she was
right in there.
1615
01:19:07,844 --> 01:19:09,310
- I was right in there.
1616
01:19:11,913 --> 01:19:14,949
- I never got a chance
to be an adult
1617
01:19:14,951 --> 01:19:18,519
And kind of apologize for
being estranged from him.
1618
01:19:18,521 --> 01:19:21,856
He died with us
on bad, bad terms,
1619
01:19:21,858 --> 01:19:24,959
Which, you know.
1620
01:19:24,961 --> 01:19:29,530
Everyone has regrets, so...
1621
01:19:31,533 --> 01:19:36,437
- No one would know that he
was as influential as he is,
1622
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:40,474
Even today, 20 years later
after his death,
1623
01:19:40,476 --> 01:19:42,476
By the way that he lived
and the things that he had.
1624
01:19:42,478 --> 01:19:44,011
He had nothing.
1625
01:19:44,013 --> 01:19:47,815
- If I had known
it was that bad,
1626
01:19:47,817 --> 01:19:50,184
I think
I would have gone
1627
01:19:50,186 --> 01:19:52,520
And said that's okay,
I'll take care of you.
1628
01:19:52,522 --> 01:19:54,855
I don't think
I would have let him--
1629
01:19:54,857 --> 01:19:58,993
I don't think I would have
let him stay like that.
1630
01:19:58,995 --> 01:20:02,229
I don't believe
that I would.
1631
01:20:02,231 --> 01:20:07,234
I couldn't because
he was part of me.
1632
01:20:07,236 --> 01:20:10,471
I mean, we made
iceberg slim together.
1633
01:20:13,975 --> 01:20:15,976
It wasn't
a one-person process,
1634
01:20:15,978 --> 01:20:20,581
It was a two-people
process, you know.
1635
01:20:20,583 --> 01:20:25,252
He was a wonderful person,
1636
01:20:25,254 --> 01:20:27,454
And I love him
1637
01:20:27,456 --> 01:20:29,123
And I miss him.
1638
01:20:48,176 --> 01:20:51,045
- Iceberg slim books
will always sell well.
1639
01:20:51,047 --> 01:20:54,014
They always have sold well,
and when we order them,
1640
01:20:54,016 --> 01:20:56,483
We order, you know,
50 or 100 at a time
1641
01:20:56,485 --> 01:20:58,185
To make sure
that we never run out.
1642
01:20:58,187 --> 01:21:00,120
Sometimes
somebody will come in
1643
01:21:00,122 --> 01:21:02,022
And literally
pick up one of each
1644
01:21:02,024 --> 01:21:05,125
Because people wanna
pass them along to their friends
1645
01:21:05,127 --> 01:21:07,895
And have the entire set,
so it's interesting.
1646
01:21:07,897 --> 01:21:09,530
- The acceptance
of iceberg slim
1647
01:21:09,532 --> 01:21:11,498
Has been literally
universal.
1648
01:21:11,500 --> 01:21:14,001
If I'm correct,
1649
01:21:14,003 --> 01:21:17,972
I believe
it's 8 or 10 languages.
1650
01:21:17,974 --> 01:21:20,541
International publishers,
in the main,
1651
01:21:20,543 --> 01:21:22,610
Are all people
of high repute,
1652
01:21:22,612 --> 01:21:26,580
That felt that there was
a great deal of worth here.
1653
01:21:26,582 --> 01:21:31,151
- He used to say,
I could have been anything.
1654
01:21:31,153 --> 01:21:33,888
I could have been somebody.
1655
01:21:33,890 --> 01:21:35,222
I said, what the hell
do you think you are?
1656
01:21:35,224 --> 01:21:36,490
You're a writer
1657
01:21:36,492 --> 01:21:39,260
That's ready by millions
and millions of people.
1658
01:21:39,262 --> 01:21:41,362
You are somebody.
1659
01:21:41,364 --> 01:21:44,064
- To describe the life
of iceberg slim,
1660
01:21:44,066 --> 01:21:46,133
I would say
it's not a story
1661
01:21:46,135 --> 01:21:48,369
To glamourize
a player's life.
1662
01:21:48,371 --> 01:21:51,171
It's rather
a story of redemption.
1663
01:22:11,059 --> 01:22:16,163
- His contribution
to african-american literature
1664
01:22:16,165 --> 01:22:18,532
Hasn't been touched
by anyone.
1665
01:22:18,534 --> 01:22:25,506
He was literally an icon
in this genre.
1666
01:22:25,508 --> 01:22:28,275
- Iceberg slim
represents change.
1667
01:22:28,277 --> 01:22:30,444
He represents--
he's like a beacon of hope
1668
01:22:30,446 --> 01:22:32,613
For anybody who's living
in impoverished conditions
1669
01:22:32,615 --> 01:22:34,181
That wants to change,
you know,
1670
01:22:34,183 --> 01:22:36,650
And is looking
for that outlet.
1671
01:22:36,652 --> 01:22:39,019
- I am a new york timesbest selling author,
1672
01:22:39,021 --> 01:22:41,388
And if it wasn't
for iceberg slim,
1673
01:22:41,390 --> 01:22:44,258
I probably wouldn't even
have a platform.
1674
01:22:44,260 --> 01:22:47,494
He's one of the pioneers,
no doubt about it.
1675
01:22:47,496 --> 01:22:51,131
- The book company's
called cash money content,
1676
01:22:51,133 --> 01:22:52,366
And we definitely proud
of the fact
1677
01:22:52,368 --> 01:22:55,469
That we publish
iceberg slim books.
1678
01:22:55,471 --> 01:23:00,574
I think it's important
that we protect his legacy.
1679
01:23:00,576 --> 01:23:04,144
These books will live
forever, guaranteed.
1680
01:23:04,146 --> 01:23:06,647
- Those of us
that know iceberg slim
1681
01:23:06,649 --> 01:23:10,651
Will put him with baldwin
and chester himes,
1682
01:23:10,653 --> 01:23:14,154
Richard wright
and alex haley, even.
1683
01:23:14,156 --> 01:23:16,023
As the wrap gift
1684
01:23:16,025 --> 01:23:18,659
For every movie
I've ever done,
1685
01:23:18,661 --> 01:23:23,030
I give out copies of pimpto the whole cast and crew.
1686
01:23:23,032 --> 01:23:25,199
All the questions of life
1687
01:23:25,201 --> 01:23:28,402
Can be answered
if you read this book.
1688
01:23:28,404 --> 01:23:32,072
- From reading iceberg slims
and really getting into it,
1689
01:23:32,074 --> 01:23:33,607
I knew that that
was the only way
1690
01:23:33,609 --> 01:23:36,677
To tell a story:
To tell both sides of it.
1691
01:23:36,679 --> 01:23:41,148
Whenever you would listen
to an ice-t record,
1692
01:23:41,150 --> 01:23:43,550
It's the game,
but it's the b-side, too.
1693
01:23:43,552 --> 01:23:47,087
- He really had, like,
a big heart,
1694
01:23:47,089 --> 01:23:49,189
Even though
he never showed anyone.
1695
01:23:49,191 --> 01:23:51,392
I think that his heart
1696
01:23:51,394 --> 01:23:54,495
Was absolutely bursting
inside of him half the time.
1697
01:23:57,298 --> 01:23:59,433
- You know, brother beck,
1698
01:23:59,435 --> 01:24:03,337
Your autobiography,
pimp, which you wrote,
1699
01:24:03,339 --> 01:24:05,739
It may have encouraged
a lot of young brothers
1700
01:24:05,741 --> 01:24:08,042
To become pimps.
1701
01:24:08,044 --> 01:24:09,777
How do you feel about this?
1702
01:24:09,779 --> 01:24:13,213
- I think
it's very unfortunate
1703
01:24:13,215 --> 01:24:19,353
That there have been many
misguided young black men
1704
01:24:19,355 --> 01:24:21,355
Who should know better,
1705
01:24:21,357 --> 01:24:25,092
Who missed the whole message
in the book,
1706
01:24:25,094 --> 01:24:28,695
And that was
that nothing good
1707
01:24:28,697 --> 01:24:31,498
Came to me
except the penitentiary
1708
01:24:31,500 --> 01:24:34,268
And a heroin habit
1709
01:24:34,270 --> 01:24:36,670
And misery
1710
01:24:36,672 --> 01:24:40,174
And the complete waste
of my life.
1711
01:24:40,176 --> 01:24:46,580
I stupidly tried
to get something for nothing.
1712
01:24:46,582 --> 01:24:48,649
And any time that you try to
get something for nothing,
1713
01:24:48,651 --> 01:24:51,418
You're gonna suffer...
1714
01:24:51,420 --> 01:24:53,220
One way or another.
1715
01:24:56,391 --> 01:24:58,625
♪ this is a man's world
1716
01:25:01,830 --> 01:25:04,164
♪ this is a man's world
1717
01:25:08,136 --> 01:25:10,771
♪ but it wouldn't
be nothing ♪
1718
01:25:10,773 --> 01:25:16,743
♪ nothing without a woman
or a girl ♪
1719
01:25:22,317 --> 01:25:28,655
♪ you see,
man made the cars ♪
1720
01:25:28,657 --> 01:25:33,227
♪ to take us over the road
1721
01:25:33,229 --> 01:25:38,732
♪ man made the train
1722
01:25:38,734 --> 01:25:43,303
♪ to carry the heavy load
1723
01:25:43,305 --> 01:25:46,907
♪ man made
the electric light ♪
1724
01:25:46,909 --> 01:25:51,912
♪ to take us
out of the dark ♪
1725
01:25:51,914 --> 01:25:56,350
♪ man made the boat
for the water ♪
1726
01:25:56,352 --> 01:25:58,919
♪ like noah made the ark
1727
01:25:58,921 --> 01:26:04,291
♪ this is a man's,
man's, man's world ♪
1728
01:26:04,293 --> 01:26:05,626
♪ but it wouldn't
be nothing ♪
1729
01:26:05,628 --> 01:26:09,596
♪ nothing without a woman
or a girl ♪
1730
01:26:18,306 --> 01:26:23,210
♪ man thinks about
a little bit of baby girls ♪
1731
01:26:23,212 --> 01:26:27,748
♪ and of baby boys
1732
01:26:27,750 --> 01:26:31,919
♪ man make them happy
1733
01:26:31,921 --> 01:26:36,557
♪ 'cause man
make them toys ♪
1734
01:26:36,559 --> 01:26:39,259
♪ and after man
make everything ♪
1735
01:26:39,261 --> 01:26:43,197
♪ everything he can
1736
01:26:43,199 --> 01:26:46,466
♪ you know
that man makes money ♪
1737
01:26:46,468 --> 01:26:49,469
♪ to buy from other men
1738
01:26:52,473 --> 01:26:56,677
♪ this is a man's world
1739
01:26:56,679 --> 01:26:58,245
♪ but it wouldn't
be nothing ♪
1740
01:26:58,247 --> 01:27:00,480
♪ nothing,
not one little thing ♪
1741
01:27:00,482 --> 01:27:03,517
♪ without a woman
or a girl ♪
1742
01:27:08,823 --> 01:27:12,226
♪ he's lost
1743
01:27:12,228 --> 01:27:13,827
♪ in the wilderness
1744
01:27:17,232 --> 01:27:21,001
♪ he's lost
1745
01:27:21,003 --> 01:27:23,303
♪ in bitterness
1746
01:27:26,007 --> 01:27:27,407
♪ he's lost
130613
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