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As someone working in Politics in DC
what do you think about Fake News?
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I would use fake news as a weapon
because it's out there
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The Germans use chemical weapons
the British use chemical weapons
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What are you going to do?
That doesn't mean you like chemical weapons
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it means you do what you have to do
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I've tried some fake news I don't even
remember, we've tried some things
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Yeah, there are terrible
negative potential consequences
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But, so what? That's what I say
so what? What's the big deal?
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We've always taken
the position in this country
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"Let it all come out
and let the people judge"
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Despite the dangers
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But how can the people
judge fake stories and Lie
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or do you think
we are in a post-truth moment?
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Oh, I don't know
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I mean, what is truth? If you study
philosophy, there is no reality
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There's only perception
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00:02:03,466 --> 00:02:05,769
So when you say
"Are we in a post-truth moment?"
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most philosophers on all sides would tell you
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there was never any such thing
as "truth" to begin with
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There is this ecosystem that's growing now
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where people are actually
confusing real and fake news
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Especially if they see it online
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This "post-truth" culture that we're living
in has real costs to the people
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who are victimized by those who come up
with these theories and themes
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00:03:35,310 --> 00:03:40,263
People have suffered because
of false news that's being spread online
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00:03:45,910 --> 00:03:49,517
The summer of 2015 was really the first sign
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that there was something
happening in our information space
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that we weren't paying enough attention to
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There was a two-month-long military
exercise that was occurring
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in the American Southwest - Jade Helm -
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and this conspiracy emerged around it
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that President Obama was going
to round up political dissidents
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and put them in camps in Texas
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Fake news... what do I think about it?
A very old saying comes to mind
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"Don't believe none of what you hear
and only half of what you see"
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I find myself there a lot
I don't know what's real and what's fake
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Here in Bastrop, it's a very
close-knit, rural community
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Typical small-town America
hometown value structure
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00:04:58,422 --> 00:05:01,896
In 2015, back during
the Obama administration
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there was a huge amount of concern
about distrust of the national government
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00:05:06,979 --> 00:05:10,542
And once people found out
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that there was going to be a major
military operation in Bastrop County
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a lot of people were, you know
making puzzle pieces fit together
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We're going to be conducting the training
exercise safely, and courteously
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We're not going to interfere
with their privacy or their rights with this
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The Army says it's an eight-week
training exercise in a realistic setting
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but they're not saying much beyond that
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We began to get inquiries from people
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"Why are you allowing the military
to come into Bastrop County?''
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''What's going to happen?
Why are they coming here?"
51
00:05:43,342 --> 00:05:47,254
And then all sorts
of conspiracies were put together
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"The truth is, that it's an exercise, um
for enacting martial law in this country"
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This is conditioning
for martial law and a takeover
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00:05:55,854 --> 00:05:58,810
And then I tuned into another show
they're saying the same thing
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00:05:58,941 --> 00:06:02,460
"I guess Alex Jones was right"
there's been an awakening
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00:06:02,807 --> 00:06:07,629
We happened to be kind of
the clearinghouse of a lot of conversation
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00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,975
People would come here
it's like the pub, to talk about it
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Somebody shares a story
someone else commiserates
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00:06:14,146 --> 00:06:16,275
and then everyone
else jumps on the bandwagon
60
00:06:16,406 --> 00:06:20,185
I think it has a lot to do with, you know
having a degree in Google
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00:06:21,010 --> 00:06:27,832
Whether it's vaccines cause autism, Masonic
lizard people running the world, Jade Helm...
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00:06:28,006 --> 00:06:31,655
We want so hard to believe even
in conspiracies, that things actually exist
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00:06:31,785 --> 00:06:36,869
that there is an underlying deal, that we
have some knowledge that other people don't
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And we want to believe all that
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00:06:38,692 --> 00:06:41,777
Um... but it's...
sometimes it's just not true
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00:06:42,168 --> 00:06:45,122
I will be headed to Bastrop, Texas
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to report on the Jade Helm '15
the military exercise
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00:06:49,337 --> 00:06:50,814
I don't trust the corporate media
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00:06:50,945 --> 00:06:52,465
I don't want somebody else
to tell me what's going on
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00:06:52,595 --> 00:06:54,029
I want to go find out for myself
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00:06:54,290 --> 00:06:59,156
In my view, Jade Helm was a psychological
operation to gauge the response
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Will the people, you know
be complacent when this exercise happens?
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Will they push back?
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00:07:04,673 --> 00:07:06,889
We're going to go inside, see, this is what
the corporate media does
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They stand across the street...
and we go inside
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I can't believe we're in here...
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I believe in personal responsibility
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If somebody reads an article, and they go
crazy because of that
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Because of whatever issues they've got
going on, like
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00:07:24,441 --> 00:07:26,874
I don't know how I can, you know, be held
responsible for that
81
00:07:27,309 --> 00:07:32,218
There are many who made some pretty wild
claims, and social media is the devil
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00:07:33,043 --> 00:07:37,822
So, in my interest in open government
and in transparency, I said
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"Well let's just have a town hall meeting
and explain this to everybody''
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Colonel Lastoria came, and we asked him to
explain to everyone who was interested
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00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,943
what exactly the operation
was going to entail
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00:07:50,074 --> 00:07:54,637
Jade Helm is simply just a challenging
8-week training exercise
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00:07:54,722 --> 00:07:56,591
For unconventional warfare
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and it's an exercise
that'll be conducted throughout Texas
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00:07:59,153 --> 00:08:01,152
New Mexico, Arizona, and Utah
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00:08:22,311 --> 00:08:28,349
Hysteria is a little strong of a word
but there were pockets of hysteria
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00:08:45,076 --> 00:08:48,682
You had people that were otherwise normal
people, in the Jade Helm thing
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believing that there was an underground
network of tunnels
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that connected all the Walmarts in Texas
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These are giant facilities that
can house people
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So, people started speculating that
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Okay these Walmarts are getting ready to be
turned into concentration camps
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00:09:04,062 --> 00:09:05,452
detention centers, what have you
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00:09:05,973 --> 00:09:09,449
''Today, Governor Greg Abbott is choosing
to assign the Texas State Guard''
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00:09:09,579 --> 00:09:11,056
''to monitor the operation"
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Commander Abbott states his
reasoning is, quote
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"To address concerns of Texas citizens''
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00:09:17,052 --> 00:09:20,397
''and to ensure that Texas communities
remain safe"
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00:09:21,656 --> 00:09:27,348
You get a part of the citizenry worked up
and the Governor reacted to it in a way
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00:09:27,479 --> 00:09:31,736
that looked like the state government was
taking this seriously
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00:09:32,171 --> 00:09:38,209
The relatively quick jump of that information
from conspiracy blogs, to town hall meetings
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00:09:38,339 --> 00:09:43,248
to the Governor's office I think was of great
concern certainly to the military
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00:09:43,380 --> 00:09:44,944
and to our intelligence services
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00:09:45,465 --> 00:09:49,548
Recently, Michael Hayden, the former CIA
and NSA director
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talked about this, very clearly linking the
disinformation campaign around Jade Helm
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00:09:54,502 --> 00:09:57,326
to Russian information activities targeting
the United States
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"Russian bots, Russian trolls, combining
with the American alt-right media''
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00:10:04,842 --> 00:10:08,577
''convinced a non-trivial portion of the
Texas population''
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00:10:08,709 --> 00:10:11,575
''that it was an attempt
by the Obama administration''
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00:10:11,706 --> 00:10:13,574
''to round up political opponents"
115
00:10:15,312 --> 00:10:19,874
It was interesting to me that someone would
tie what went on here in Bastrop County
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00:10:20,047 --> 00:10:25,435
to this worldwide concern about Russian
interference in American politics
117
00:10:25,565 --> 00:10:28,911
but you know what, uh, it's a small world
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00:10:31,169 --> 00:10:35,427
"And in Texas, we don't compare our
economy to other states''
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00:10:35,687 --> 00:10:38,685
''We compare our economy to
other countries''
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00:10:41,813 --> 00:10:46,637
''The Texas economy is larger than Canada
it's larger than Australia''
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00:10:46,766 --> 00:10:53,979
''and get this, the Texas economy is even
larger than the economy of Russia''
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00:10:57,584 --> 00:11:02,189
''That makes me more powerful than Putin!"
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00:11:08,967 --> 00:11:10,401
That was a test
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00:11:10,748 --> 00:11:16,310
And what all of it showed was, we are in a
weaponized information environment
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00:11:17,613 --> 00:11:20,132
So we're at the point now
where I don't think people can distinguish
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00:11:20,262 --> 00:11:22,913
fact from truth anymore or people
are starting to make their own truth
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00:11:23,043 --> 00:11:24,389
and honestly, I'm okay with that
128
00:11:36,598 --> 00:11:42,028
I have about eight different daily digests
that come into my inbox every morning
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00:11:42,115 --> 00:11:45,852
from different Facebook pages and other
things that we started tracking over time
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00:11:45,982 --> 00:11:51,066
and I'd scan hyper-partisan stuff from people
who tend to propagate misinformation
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00:11:53,497 --> 00:11:57,017
And it's basically just like starting your
morning bathing in internet garbage
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00:11:57,149 --> 00:11:58,711
is pretty much the deal
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00:11:59,885 --> 00:12:03,665
I have been looking at false stories
since 2014
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00:12:03,924 --> 00:12:09,182
There were a handful of journalists and
researchers who were interested in this stuff
135
00:12:09,313 --> 00:12:12,137
but it wasn't what was the main focus
of the world
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00:12:12,267 --> 00:12:15,178
And in the span of a few months
that completely changed
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00:12:15,309 --> 00:12:17,828
at the end of 2016, with Trump's victory
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00:12:19,956 --> 00:12:24,778
What we found was, the core,
key time, before Election Day
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00:12:24,865 --> 00:12:29,210
that fake stories got way more engagement
than the real news stories about the election
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00:12:30,036 --> 00:12:34,554
And as soon as everybody, journalists
politicians, researchers
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00:12:34,728 --> 00:12:36,119
started scratching the surface
they were like
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00:12:36,247 --> 00:12:38,638
"Holy crap, this is, look at what's here"
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00:12:39,334 --> 00:12:42,375
And then right after the election
we had Pizzagate
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00:12:42,809 --> 00:12:47,110
Somebody walking into a D.C. pizzeria
with a rifle and firing it off
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00:12:47,241 --> 00:12:49,674
and realizing that
that was a result of this person
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Consuming conspiracies and misinformation
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00:12:51,975 --> 00:12:53,845
I think that freaked a lot of people out
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00:13:07,095 --> 00:13:12,265
My restaurant, I try to be, like, everyone's
invited, just have a good time
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00:13:12,570 --> 00:13:15,046
Play ping-pong, eat some great food
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00:13:16,131 --> 00:13:20,259
Families and kids are the people who like it
the most, because it's, like, it's fun
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00:13:20,390 --> 00:13:21,867
They can run around
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00:13:25,385 --> 00:13:28,992
Comet Ping Pong is a fixture here
in Washington
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00:13:29,166 --> 00:13:31,252
Everyone knows this restaurant
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00:13:31,426 --> 00:13:35,465
People come from other parts of Washington
to have pizza here
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00:13:35,639 --> 00:13:39,028
We do have some politically-connected
people that come in here
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00:13:39,158 --> 00:13:40,678
and that is just something that happens
157
00:13:40,810 --> 00:13:45,501
I mean, I have CNN news anchors who have
been eating here for years
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00:13:45,631 --> 00:13:49,846
But what Comet is about is, this is a safe
space for people to come in
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00:13:50,063 --> 00:13:51,801
and be themselves
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00:13:51,931 --> 00:13:56,754
We host shows for local bands, queer bands
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I think that one of the nice things about
Comet is that there's space here
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00:14:02,619 --> 00:14:07,832
for queer folks to be part of the identity
of the restaurant
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00:14:08,919 --> 00:14:12,091
I had this party for the ten-year anniversary
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00:14:12,176 --> 00:14:16,130
Everyone was invited, and we had the
Attorney General of the United States
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and like, congresspeople and kids
and musicians and artists
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00:14:20,214 --> 00:14:23,168
And that was in the end of October, 2016
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I looked at it at one moment
and I just thought
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"Wow," like, "we've really created
something here"
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Like, "This place is special"
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00:14:31,553 --> 00:14:35,594
And then quickly after that, we were
slammed with this year-plus-long
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00:14:35,768 --> 00:14:38,201
endless, uh, conspiracy theory
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00:14:39,677 --> 00:14:42,936
John Podesta, who's Hillary Clinton's
campaign chairman
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00:14:43,067 --> 00:14:46,238
his emails were hacked
and they get uploaded online
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00:14:46,368 --> 00:14:49,843
And a lot of conspiracy theorists start
crawling through them
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00:14:49,974 --> 00:14:51,365
And based on these emails
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00:14:51,581 --> 00:14:55,884
they spin up this crazy conspiracy theory
about Comet Ping Pong
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00:14:57,186 --> 00:15:00,835
People on pro-Trump forums start going
through John Podesta's emails
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00:15:00,966 --> 00:15:02,530
and they see these references to pizza
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Now these are pretty innocuous references
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00:15:04,615 --> 00:15:07,699
"Do we need to get pizza for the campaign
volunteers," that kind of stuff
181
00:15:07,830 --> 00:15:12,000
and perhaps the first example
we've ever seen of the creation of Pizzagate
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is on a reddit post
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00:15:13,825 --> 00:15:15,390
Someone saying
"I think we need to be looking''
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00:15:15,521 --> 00:15:17,518
''at these clues, for all this pizza stuff"
185
00:15:17,693 --> 00:15:19,691
And really, from there
that's where it took off
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00:15:20,777 --> 00:15:23,209
So, inside the emails, they connect a lot of
different things
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00:15:23,601 --> 00:15:25,339
CP, "cheese pizza"
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00:15:25,469 --> 00:15:28,379
People will dissect it, they think maybe it
stands for, "child pornography"
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00:15:28,510 --> 00:15:30,943
Various people on reddit, sites like 4chan
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00:15:31,073 --> 00:15:35,590
become convinced that "pizza" is slang for
essentially, children to rape
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00:15:35,722 --> 00:15:39,633
And so then they see the exchanges
with James Alefantis and John Podesta...
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00:15:40,588 --> 00:15:45,280
I had emailed with John Podesta about
hosting pizza party fundraiser
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00:15:45,410 --> 00:15:47,409
cookout at someone's house
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00:15:47,626 --> 00:15:50,928
And so, people become convinced that
Comet Ping Pong is, like
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00:15:51,102 --> 00:15:53,274
this child rape dungeon in the basement
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00:15:53,491 --> 00:15:55,401
This was supported by George Soros
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00:15:55,489 --> 00:15:58,617
and John Podesta, and Hillary Clinton
and like everybody was somehow connected
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00:15:58,748 --> 00:16:01,355
to this child sex trafficking
ring in a pizza parlor
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00:16:01,529 --> 00:16:05,916
that you could dial up, and say the right
food words, and get your order of children
200
00:16:06,743 --> 00:16:09,348
It's just days before the election
and so, tensions are high
201
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,347
It certainly looked
like Hillary Clinton was going to win
202
00:16:11,478 --> 00:16:15,344
And so, Trump people are very feverish
and this was just blowing up
203
00:16:15,692 --> 00:16:18,169
So I said, "Geez, all these people
are just going so wild about it
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00:16:18,299 --> 00:16:22,122
I wonder if anything's happening at Comet"
so I called him up...
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00:16:22,253 --> 00:16:25,163
I got a call from a guy named Will Sommer
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00:16:25,293 --> 00:16:28,769
and he at the time was working
at the Washington City Paper
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00:16:28,899 --> 00:16:34,808
and asked me if I had read about this
or know about this online conspiracy theory
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00:16:34,939 --> 00:16:39,239
that Hillary Clinton and I were human
trafficking from Comet Ping Pong
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00:16:39,370 --> 00:16:43,410
And I was like, "I don't know
what you're talking about"
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00:16:43,540 --> 00:16:48,102
And I make a comment like
"Everyone is really up about this election''
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00:16:48,232 --> 00:16:52,143
''and passions are high, and I'm sure
that it'll go away in a couple of days''
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00:16:52,749 --> 00:16:55,489
The election happens
and then actually what happened is
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00:16:55,619 --> 00:17:01,092
the days subsequent to the election
these online attacks started escalating
214
00:17:01,222 --> 00:17:02,787
and increasing in volume
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00:17:02,918 --> 00:17:08,262
We started to get messages onto
like, our Yelp page for the restaurant
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00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:12,302
Reviews that were really weird
and weird Facebook things
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00:17:12,562 --> 00:17:16,299
I had put pictures
of my god-children on Instagram
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00:17:16,429 --> 00:17:18,992
Now, obviously, I would know
better than to put anything anywhere
219
00:17:19,122 --> 00:17:22,164
But these images were
stolen from my Instagram
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00:17:22,294 --> 00:17:26,639
taken and put up as some kind of evidence
of nefarious activities going on
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00:17:26,769 --> 00:17:29,984
I just want you to ask yourself:
why does this guy
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00:17:30,114 --> 00:17:31,809
I think he looks like he's in his late 30's
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00:17:31,939 --> 00:17:36,934
why is this coming-on-middle-age guy
have a photo of a random kid drinking milk
224
00:17:37,586 --> 00:17:42,279
Pizzagate, like so many conspiracy
theories, it starts to echo on 4chan
225
00:17:42,714 --> 00:17:45,842
There are spaces that drive
more extreme content
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00:17:45,928 --> 00:17:49,795
I would say 4chan is the...
now, bathroom may be too polite
227
00:17:49,925 --> 00:17:54,268
Think of the rest stop
on the Interstate highway
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00:17:54,356 --> 00:17:59,049
4chan is a dirty restroom
there's no toilet paper on the toilet roll
229
00:17:59,179 --> 00:18:01,567
the sink has not been cleaned in months
230
00:18:02,090 --> 00:18:05,131
And think about the kinds
of things you saw on bathroom walls there
231
00:18:06,392 --> 00:18:08,520
It builds on the internet
and then it starts getting picked up
232
00:18:08,694 --> 00:18:10,605
by the various right-wing pundits
233
00:18:10,735 --> 00:18:12,778
You know, Alex Jones starts
promoting it all the time
234
00:18:12,908 --> 00:18:16,165
Pizzagate is real, the question is
how real is it, and what is it
235
00:18:16,252 --> 00:18:18,251
Something's going on
something's being covered up
236
00:18:18,381 --> 00:18:20,077
it needs to be investigated
to just call...
237
00:18:20,207 --> 00:18:23,508
Infowars becomes
the Pizzagate network for a bit
238
00:18:23,639 --> 00:18:28,505
The menu from Comet Ping Pong
notice the symbol of the ping-pong paddles
239
00:18:28,635 --> 00:18:34,326
and its clever resemblance to the FBI
document's symbol for ChildLove
240
00:18:34,457 --> 00:18:39,062
There were so many different entry
points for this specific attack
241
00:18:39,149 --> 00:18:43,667
I am trafficking or abusing
these children, is one
242
00:18:43,798 --> 00:18:46,318
The other was that I, or Hillary Clinton
243
00:18:46,404 --> 00:18:51,270
or the Podestas were kidnapping or selling
these children to retain our immense wealth
244
00:18:51,488 --> 00:18:54,876
There was some that
this idea that because I'm gay
245
00:18:55,006 --> 00:18:57,700
I obviously must be molesting
children or something
246
00:18:57,872 --> 00:19:00,177
which is a historical perspective on gayness
247
00:19:01,654 --> 00:19:06,650
So many of the calls we'd receive, people
saying, "Why do you like raping children?"
248
00:19:07,432 --> 00:19:10,256
And being like, "I know you're all gay"
249
00:19:11,428 --> 00:19:14,166
And that one is necessarily
related to the other...
250
00:19:14,297 --> 00:19:20,813
A lot of what fuels misinformation
and what we call "fake news" is hate
251
00:19:20,943 --> 00:19:24,115
It is essentially some group of people,
252
00:19:24,245 --> 00:19:28,676
either misunderstanding
or having some sort of violent feelings
253
00:19:28,807 --> 00:19:30,501
about another group of people
254
00:19:30,632 --> 00:19:36,671
And in the case of Comet
those who decided to target James
255
00:19:36,844 --> 00:19:41,493
found a little bit of hate
and malice in the piece of Comet
256
00:19:41,665 --> 00:19:44,969
that is welcoming to the LGBTQ community
257
00:19:46,707 --> 00:19:48,964
More and more we started
receiving phone calls
258
00:19:49,096 --> 00:19:54,874
that ran the gambit of being
just prank calls, I'd almost say
259
00:19:55,004 --> 00:19:58,828
where people were like, "Can I get a
some kind of special pizza"
260
00:19:58,958 --> 00:20:00,349
like, some ridiculous name
261
00:20:00,435 --> 00:20:03,434
Something that meant to them something
about pedophilia, it was code words...
262
00:20:04,606 --> 00:20:06,518
To just straight-up death threats
263
00:20:06,648 --> 00:20:08,820
People saying, "I'm gonna kill you"
264
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:12,904
Or "We know what you're doing
and we're gonna stop it''
265
00:20:12,991 --> 00:20:14,381
''And you're all gonna die"
266
00:20:14,512 --> 00:20:17,075
"We know where you live
we are coming to the restaurant''
267
00:20:17,162 --> 00:20:19,247
''We're coming to get you"
268
00:20:19,377 --> 00:20:20,768
You know, "You need to kill yourself"
269
00:20:21,029 --> 00:20:23,722
There was a specific one
where someone said
270
00:20:23,853 --> 00:20:27,631
"I'm going to come to your restaurant with
a machine gun and kill everyone inside
271
00:20:27,763 --> 00:20:30,933
and like, cut your guts out and watch
you die on the floor," or whatever
272
00:20:31,064 --> 00:20:33,323
And I was like, "This is scary"
273
00:20:34,149 --> 00:20:37,668
What I was doing every single night
was going online and checking reddit
274
00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:39,145
checking 4chan
275
00:20:39,275 --> 00:20:45,357
Reddit had a new subreddit that had been
started specifically for Pizzagate
276
00:20:45,531 --> 00:20:52,568
It went from, within a week, zero followers
to 22,000 people who were subscribed to it
277
00:20:52,656 --> 00:20:56,306
One thousand, five-hundred of which
were active at any given point
278
00:20:56,437 --> 00:20:58,696
growing and growing
and growing and growing
279
00:20:58,912 --> 00:21:04,474
And even if they only spend five minutes
a day trying to destroy my life
280
00:21:04,648 --> 00:21:09,948
22,000 people have more five-minutes
a day than I have 24 hours in my day
281
00:21:10,122 --> 00:21:12,946
"There it is, there it is, guys...''
282
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:16,856
''So we're, we're going to go in
and we're going to infiltrate Comet Pizza"
283
00:21:17,638 --> 00:21:19,202
I got a phone call from someone who said
284
00:21:19,332 --> 00:21:21,635
"Hey, I just want to let you know
that I'm a friend of yours''
285
00:21:21,764 --> 00:21:26,675
''and a guy named Jack Posobiec
is in there filming you right now"
286
00:21:26,805 --> 00:21:28,281
"I, I turned it off"
287
00:21:28,412 --> 00:21:33,017
"I understand that, I understand
that to you, this is maybe like a game''
288
00:21:33,149 --> 00:21:35,754
''But considering that I, myself
and my staff''
289
00:21:35,885 --> 00:21:37,927
''receive death threats many times a day..."
290
00:21:38,058 --> 00:21:40,316
"It's, it's not a game
it's not anything..."
291
00:21:40,448 --> 00:21:43,879
"Are you, are you reading these things
that people are writing on...?"
292
00:21:44,052 --> 00:21:46,225
"I can't control what somebody
posts on the internet"
293
00:21:46,355 --> 00:21:50,700
I read several posts on reddit that said
"I've had enough of this''
294
00:21:50,874 --> 00:21:54,871
''If I don't post back here in three hours
it's because I've been killed''
295
00:21:55,001 --> 00:21:57,607
''I'm grabbing my shotgun
and going into Comet"
296
00:21:59,562 --> 00:22:04,472
We were in real, deep fear
like serious fear
297
00:22:04,559 --> 00:22:09,727
These threats were so violent that I...
I sort of, like, knew something would happen
298
00:22:24,325 --> 00:22:28,454
So it culminates with Edgar Maddison Welch
driving up from North Carolina
299
00:22:28,541 --> 00:22:30,235
And he's one of the people
who's been consuming all this stuff
300
00:22:30,365 --> 00:22:32,928
and he's become convinced
that there really is a child rape dungeon
301
00:22:33,059 --> 00:22:34,450
in the basement of Comet Ping Pong
302
00:22:34,580 --> 00:22:36,837
He wanted to come up here
and save these children
303
00:22:36,969 --> 00:22:38,620
He's a father himself
he had two young daughters
304
00:22:38,751 --> 00:22:43,225
He was a classic Infowars listener, follower
305
00:22:43,355 --> 00:22:45,310
You know, people want me to look into it
I may take off a week
306
00:22:45,441 --> 00:22:48,438
and just only research this and actually
go to where these places are, and stuff
307
00:22:48,569 --> 00:22:51,046
In fact, I'm looking
at getting on a plane...
308
00:22:51,176 --> 00:22:53,826
I can't just say something
and not see it for myself
309
00:22:53,956 --> 00:22:56,998
They go to these pizza places
there's, like, satanic art everywhere
310
00:22:57,736 --> 00:23:02,602
Part of the pitch is
get out there and help us unearth the truth
311
00:23:02,733 --> 00:23:05,470
It turns people into a type of vigilante
312
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,162
in which they're out there
seeking what they think is justice
313
00:23:09,815 --> 00:23:11,726
In the case of Pizzagate
314
00:23:11,856 --> 00:23:16,201
a guy puts children in danger because
he thinks he's rescuing children
315
00:23:19,111 --> 00:23:22,413
We had this restaurant
filled with families eating
316
00:23:22,761 --> 00:23:24,238
Sunday afternoon
317
00:23:24,368 --> 00:23:28,278
And Edgar Maddison Welch
walks in this front door
318
00:23:28,409 --> 00:23:31,798
with a loaded A-R-15 assault rifle
319
00:23:32,275 --> 00:23:33,927
Ex - Fully exposed
320
00:23:34,101 --> 00:23:36,794
Also with, like, a handgun
and a knife, it turned out
321
00:23:36,924 --> 00:23:39,965
And, like, walks through this restaurant
322
00:23:42,094 --> 00:23:46,221
My young staff
who had been under online attack
323
00:23:46,351 --> 00:23:50,784
they immediately see him
call the police, and...
324
00:23:52,738 --> 00:23:54,781
And go, like, table to table
325
00:23:54,911 --> 00:23:57,909
telling each table that they need
to go, like, leave the building
326
00:23:58,039 --> 00:24:04,685
And so each table, it's
the customers are like, "Oh no, we're fine"
327
00:24:04,859 --> 00:24:10,464
Like, "We're here to support you, it's okay
like, we'll just keep eating," or whatever
328
00:24:10,638 --> 00:24:12,940
And this... these kids are like
"No, you don't understand''
329
00:24:13,070 --> 00:24:14,504
''There's a guy here with a gun"
330
00:24:15,765 --> 00:24:17,546
So they evacuate the building
331
00:24:18,502 --> 00:24:20,674
This isn't a joke, get out of the block
332
00:24:21,022 --> 00:24:22,889
The police have shut down the street
333
00:24:23,020 --> 00:24:27,190
and riot / SWAT teams are closing
the building, and the street
334
00:24:27,450 --> 00:24:31,839
and leaves this gunman alone to search the
restaurant, or do whatever he's going to do
335
00:24:33,142 --> 00:24:38,095
The first thing that he did was immediately
walk towards the back room
336
00:24:38,225 --> 00:24:41,267
I'm not sure what he thought
he was going to find back here
337
00:24:41,397 --> 00:24:45,394
but I think that he thought that this was
the place where Hillary Clinton would be
338
00:24:45,524 --> 00:24:48,216
or he was going to walk back there
and find John Podesta
339
00:24:48,304 --> 00:24:52,518
or George Soros
or someone... pulling things off of the wall
340
00:24:52,649 --> 00:24:57,342
Trying to pry apart the stage
flipping ping-pong tables over
341
00:24:57,472 --> 00:25:01,164
He was trying to break anything
that he thought was obscuring his view
342
00:25:01,425 --> 00:25:08,159
But he came over here to the only
locked door in the entire restaurant
343
00:25:08,637 --> 00:25:11,114
which is our employee closet
344
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:16,935
He shot through the door
which is a pretty dirty
345
00:25:17,066 --> 00:25:20,412
but innocuous employee closet
346
00:25:20,540 --> 00:25:23,626
Uh, Houses our coats
347
00:25:23,843 --> 00:25:26,668
Realized, there were
no children being held here
348
00:25:26,796 --> 00:25:28,579
Came out of the... out of the restaurant
349
00:25:28,709 --> 00:25:31,490
came out with his hands up
with a... to a sea of police
350
00:25:31,620 --> 00:25:34,053
- Hands! Hands!
- We got a guy coming out right now
351
00:25:36,616 --> 00:25:38,441
- Stand up!
- We've got a white male subject
352
00:25:38,571 --> 00:25:40,351
- Hands up over your head!
- Coming out of the location
353
00:25:40,438 --> 00:25:41,829
Hands in the air
354
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,175
Don't nobody move
don't nobody move, stay where you are
355
00:25:44,350 --> 00:25:45,696
Bring him towards you
356
00:25:45,826 --> 00:25:49,780
I got him... keep going, keep coming
to my voice, do not turn around
357
00:25:49,910 --> 00:25:52,951
Stop! Stop! Get down on your knees
358
00:25:54,864 --> 00:25:57,209
get on the ground, lay prone on the ground
359
00:26:07,333 --> 00:26:08,983
Sir, do you work there?
360
00:26:09,634 --> 00:26:11,155
- Are you the...
- Who else is in the location right now?
361
00:26:12,372 --> 00:26:14,761
- Nobody else?
- What were you doing in the location?
362
00:26:20,453 --> 00:26:23,667
- Regarding what?
- Pizzagate he's talking about Pizzagate
363
00:26:26,274 --> 00:26:30,401
This could have been a lot worse
someone could have gotten shot
364
00:26:30,531 --> 00:26:32,139
Anything could have happened here
365
00:26:32,270 --> 00:26:34,529
So no one... this was something
366
00:26:34,616 --> 00:26:39,221
that even some of the most seasoned
crime reporters had never seen before
367
00:26:39,612 --> 00:26:44,261
That someone came in armed for battle
came in on a suicide mission
368
00:26:44,478 --> 00:26:47,823
either knowing he was going
to go to jail, or might end up dead
369
00:26:47,954 --> 00:26:53,167
but was willing to do that, based off
of fake erroneous news stories
370
00:27:01,639 --> 00:27:05,158
Today, the term "fake news"
has become totally weaponized
371
00:27:05,332 --> 00:27:08,329
and misused to the point
that I think it's kind of meaningless
372
00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:10,719
We saw back in January, 2017
373
00:27:10,893 --> 00:27:14,151
when President Trump stood up
at the news conference and called out CNN
374
00:27:14,238 --> 00:27:15,628
and called it fake news
375
00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:20,321
From there we started to see the term
kind of just fall apart, in terms of use
376
00:27:20,449 --> 00:27:21,884
Mr. President Elect
can you give us a question
377
00:27:22,015 --> 00:27:23,405
- Don't be rude
- You're attacking us
378
00:27:23,536 --> 00:27:25,230
- Don't be rude
- Can you give us a question?
379
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,445
Don't be... I'm not going
to give you a question'
380
00:27:28,575 --> 00:27:30,313
'You are fake news, go ahead
381
00:27:30,834 --> 00:27:32,224
Where we're at right now is
382
00:27:32,355 --> 00:27:36,265
fake news has most effectively become
what Donald Trump has defined it as
383
00:27:36,395 --> 00:27:38,437
which is media that's critical of him
384
00:27:38,567 --> 00:27:43,388
If you want the fake news media
to finally investigate...
385
00:27:45,823 --> 00:27:47,257
When he talks about fake news
386
00:27:47,387 --> 00:27:50,559
that is one of the biggest applause
lines that he gets at these rallies
387
00:27:50,687 --> 00:27:53,815
Usually at that point, that's when the whole
crowd turns to the media pen and boos
388
00:28:00,725 --> 00:28:02,115
As a journalist, obviously
389
00:28:02,202 --> 00:28:05,285
it's disappointing to see
that kind of vitriol directed at the press
390
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,803
Don't worry, I don't like 'em either, okay?
391
00:28:22,448 --> 00:28:24,403
CNN is in the dumper
392
00:28:24,707 --> 00:28:27,053
It's become synonymous with fake news
393
00:28:27,181 --> 00:28:28,964
Well, nobody believes it anymore
394
00:28:29,095 --> 00:28:33,438
We expect politicians to be, uh, fast and
loose with the truth, depending on the day
395
00:28:33,525 --> 00:28:35,221
We know that
it's a car salesman
396
00:28:35,351 --> 00:28:38,435
But we expect journalists
newsmen to tell the truth
397
00:28:38,567 --> 00:28:40,737
That's what y'all... you're just
supposed to report the facts
398
00:28:41,779 --> 00:28:43,518
And, uh... no, I didn't vote for Obama
399
00:28:43,649 --> 00:28:47,211
Give me one thing he did to help me in...
as a Texan, a heterosexual married man
400
00:28:47,907 --> 00:28:49,470
Did he cut... Lower my taxes?
401
00:28:49,601 --> 00:28:52,381
Nope, did he increase my freedoms? Nope
402
00:28:52,511 --> 00:28:55,988
Did he help my white, blonde-haired
blue-eye kid go to college? Nope
403
00:28:57,420 --> 00:29:00,245
Donald Trump's trying to stop
my culture down here from changing
404
00:29:01,332 --> 00:29:04,718
Look around, his style of populism is working
405
00:29:05,676 --> 00:29:07,718
We're going to give him
the benefit of the doubt
406
00:29:07,847 --> 00:29:11,628
Why? Because he's giving us results
but y'all don't report that
407
00:29:11,975 --> 00:29:13,670
The media is the public enemy
408
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,450
Let me show you the one
I really like, I bought tonight
409
00:29:17,754 --> 00:29:19,274
This sums it up
410
00:29:22,445 --> 00:29:24,791
That is money well-spent right there
411
00:29:25,878 --> 00:29:29,527
Because it's fake news, they don't
report the truth the truth's reality
412
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:32,047
If you want to start living right
report the truth
413
00:29:32,178 --> 00:29:35,088
That's all we ask for
thank you
414
00:29:39,389 --> 00:29:42,343
Well I think fake news
has become a very politicized term
415
00:29:43,213 --> 00:29:46,906
that is being used to censor conservatives
416
00:29:48,383 --> 00:29:51,424
Evidently, because it's published
in The New York Times, you believe it
417
00:29:51,598 --> 00:29:56,681
If you do that, you're believing
either government, uh, propaganda
418
00:29:56,811 --> 00:30:00,895
or mainstream media-determined truth
419
00:30:01,024 --> 00:30:03,719
And just because The New York Times
published it doesn't mean it's true
420
00:30:06,238 --> 00:30:08,150
Jerome Corsi's
this long-time Republican operative
421
00:30:08,281 --> 00:30:14,015
and really one of the modern creators of this
internet and media-fueled smear campaign
422
00:30:14,623 --> 00:30:16,101
In the 2004 election
423
00:30:16,231 --> 00:30:19,923
he co-wrote this book about John Kerry's
behavior on this swift boat
424
00:30:20,054 --> 00:30:23,400
promoting the idea that John Kerry
who was this Vietnam war hero
425
00:30:23,530 --> 00:30:25,615
was actually like, this big coward
426
00:30:25,790 --> 00:30:28,178
You know, promoting
this really baseless claim
427
00:30:28,309 --> 00:30:32,392
So now, to "swiftboat" someone
since 2004, means to create a lie
428
00:30:32,610 --> 00:30:35,999
and propagate it in the idea
that it's going to torpedo them
429
00:30:36,173 --> 00:30:38,128
And Jerome Corsi was the creator of that
430
00:30:38,476 --> 00:30:40,300
Cut to 2008-2009
431
00:30:40,430 --> 00:30:44,817
Jerome Corsi is probably the most prominent
face of the Birther conspiracy theory
432
00:30:44,904 --> 00:30:47,903
so, the idea that Barack Obama
was born in Kenya
433
00:30:48,294 --> 00:30:52,377
It's like all of the giant conspiracy
theories over the past decade or two
434
00:30:52,507 --> 00:30:54,201
Jerome Corsi has jumped on
435
00:30:54,288 --> 00:30:57,765
And either he created them
or he really got into pushing them
436
00:30:58,677 --> 00:31:05,542
And what's so nice about this, is just with
a laptop computer, a fairly simple camera
437
00:31:05,670 --> 00:31:10,233
it gives the average person an opportunity
to establish a voice, and to be heard
438
00:31:14,231 --> 00:31:17,271
I didn't look at CNN and say
"I want to do that"
439
00:31:17,402 --> 00:31:19,575
I didn't go to Fox News and say
"Here's my resume''
440
00:31:19,749 --> 00:31:21,703
''I want to put on a suit
and after Tucker Carlson''
441
00:31:21,834 --> 00:31:24,050
''I want to sit there and read my news"
442
00:31:24,223 --> 00:31:26,222
I didn't say that
I didn't go to The New York Times and say
443
00:31:26,352 --> 00:31:27,698
"I want to write stories for you"
444
00:31:27,829 --> 00:31:30,262
I looked at all of those things and I said
"You guys are all fucked up''
445
00:31:31,044 --> 00:31:34,781
''Whatever it is that you think is journalism
I think is fucked up"
446
00:31:35,650 --> 00:31:37,213
''So this is how I'm gonna do it''
447
00:31:37,691 --> 00:31:39,038
Wake up everyone
448
00:31:39,212 --> 00:31:44,208
If you are forwarding articles from
Newsweek, from The New York Times
449
00:31:44,295 --> 00:31:47,423
you have become a zombie propagandist
450
00:31:47,553 --> 00:31:51,636
I find intriguing that even
investigating it, questioning it
451
00:31:51,768 --> 00:31:56,762
becoming a forensic examiner
of evidence, you get ridiculed
452
00:31:56,850 --> 00:31:58,632
You are a conspiracy theorist
453
00:31:59,414 --> 00:32:02,672
You can disagree on all sorts
of interpretations
454
00:32:02,846 --> 00:32:07,713
about a particular subject
but not when there's falsehood
455
00:32:10,059 --> 00:32:13,273
When we study false news
and disinformation
456
00:32:13,404 --> 00:32:19,182
what we see repeatedly is things that
in theory could be just interpretation
457
00:32:20,007 --> 00:32:25,395
get made up of discrete bits
of narrative that are distinctly false
458
00:32:26,393 --> 00:32:28,957
It's very clear that what you have here
459
00:32:29,086 --> 00:32:32,475
is a propagandist effort
to try to achieve a result
460
00:32:33,518 --> 00:32:36,516
So for example, the Seth Rich case
461
00:32:37,907 --> 00:32:43,381
Seth Rich was a young guy, he's working
for the Democratic National Committee
462
00:32:44,771 --> 00:32:49,420
And he's killed, in July of 2016
463
00:32:52,504 --> 00:32:55,633
Police in Washington have said it appears
to have been a botched armed robbery
464
00:32:55,763 --> 00:32:57,892
but they don't know for sure what happened
465
00:33:07,493 --> 00:33:11,099
There were a lot of robberies
in this neighborhood around that time
466
00:33:11,490 --> 00:33:13,837
People are speculating
"Well, what kind of a robbery was it?"
467
00:33:13,966 --> 00:33:17,441
Because his wallet was still on him
his watch was still there
468
00:33:17,573 --> 00:33:20,439
But when a gun goes off
that's going to draw attention
469
00:33:20,831 --> 00:33:24,090
So his assailant's not going to stick around
and try to get those valuables
470
00:33:24,264 --> 00:33:27,087
They're going to take off
and that's what happened in this case
471
00:33:30,128 --> 00:33:32,474
Very early on, he... he wanted to do stuff
472
00:33:32,605 --> 00:33:34,776
that was involved
in trying to make things better
473
00:33:36,167 --> 00:33:38,644
There was about
six-and-a-half years between us
474
00:33:38,774 --> 00:33:42,249
100%, he was very much
you know, the annoying little brother
475
00:33:42,814 --> 00:33:45,202
And then as we got older
we got a lot closer
476
00:33:45,290 --> 00:33:47,506
just, when we both
got to the same spot in life
477
00:33:48,114 --> 00:33:51,069
If he had problems, he'd talked to me
if I had problems, I'd talk to him
478
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,848
So I mean, we were each other's best friends
and you know, always there for each other
479
00:33:55,022 --> 00:33:57,151
He was the person
that I knew I could always count on
480
00:33:57,282 --> 00:34:00,366
and he was that not just to me
but also to his friends
481
00:34:01,234 --> 00:34:03,712
His over-the-top sense of humor...
482
00:34:03,842 --> 00:34:06,536
If you were having a bad day, no matter what
483
00:34:06,666 --> 00:34:10,228
it became his mission to make you
have a good day, just give in now
484
00:34:13,660 --> 00:34:15,746
I had come back early from a vacation
485
00:34:15,876 --> 00:34:19,004
and we had been playing phone tag
since I had gotten back
486
00:34:19,611 --> 00:34:23,913
Obviously, that is something
that I realize I would regret
487
00:34:26,911 --> 00:34:31,473
Next morning, my mom called me
and I remember her telling me that, um
488
00:34:32,124 --> 00:34:35,339
he had been shot and killed
uh, late in the night
489
00:34:35,470 --> 00:34:38,903
I remember, you know, collapse
on the floor of our townhome at the time
490
00:34:39,294 --> 00:34:42,291
um, just in sheer disbelief
491
00:34:44,247 --> 00:34:48,373
In the political environment
that existed in the summer of 2016
492
00:34:48,806 --> 00:34:52,675
having a DNC staffer that was murdered
to a certain group of people
493
00:34:52,805 --> 00:34:54,716
just could not have been a coincidence
494
00:34:54,847 --> 00:34:57,758
Somebody hacked into
the DNC computer, and Wikileaks, uh
495
00:34:57,888 --> 00:35:00,234
just recently published
a bunch of these emails
496
00:35:00,321 --> 00:35:02,189
and there are a number of emails
497
00:35:02,319 --> 00:35:05,925
in which senior officials
of the Democratic National Committee
498
00:35:06,055 --> 00:35:10,096
can be seen conspiring
against Bernie Sanders
499
00:35:10,226 --> 00:35:15,266
Seth Rich's murder follows the leak
of emails from the Democratic Party
500
00:35:15,397 --> 00:35:19,263
And his death very quickly
is linked to the leak
501
00:35:20,002 --> 00:35:24,519
The idea is that Seth Rich himself
was somehow in contact with WikiLeaks
502
00:35:24,650 --> 00:35:28,864
objected to Hillary Clinton's assertion
of control over the Democratic Party
503
00:35:29,125 --> 00:35:31,732
He was outraged
and released these emails
504
00:35:31,949 --> 00:35:35,686
And Hillary Clinton, somehow
had Seth Rich murdered
505
00:35:35,859 --> 00:35:38,249
I want to be clear... this is baseless
506
00:35:38,379 --> 00:35:43,027
But certainly Julian Assange of WikiLeaks
stoked that, uh, speculation
507
00:35:43,157 --> 00:35:46,634
Whistleblowers go to significant
efforts to get us material
508
00:35:46,764 --> 00:35:48,589
and often very significant risks
509
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:53,454
There's a 27-year-old that works for the
DNC, who was shot in the back, murdered
510
00:35:53,584 --> 00:35:55,714
That was just a robbery
I believe, wasn't it?
511
00:35:56,279 --> 00:35:57,885
No, there's no finding
512
00:35:58,016 --> 00:35:59,493
Was he one of your sources, then?
513
00:35:59,625 --> 00:36:01,492
We don't comment
on who our sources are...
514
00:36:01,623 --> 00:36:03,012
But why make the suggestion?
515
00:36:03,143 --> 00:36:04,707
Julian Assange, obviously
it's convenient for him
516
00:36:04,838 --> 00:36:07,053
because it means he's not, kind of
a patsy for the Russian government
517
00:36:07,183 --> 00:36:10,094
It means, you know, there was this brave
whistleblower who gave him the stuff
518
00:36:14,352 --> 00:36:16,916
Julian Assange was the catalyst
519
00:36:17,046 --> 00:36:21,781
And then, online, on websites
and message boards like 4chan or reddit
520
00:36:21,911 --> 00:36:23,649
even Twitter, it blew up
521
00:36:23,736 --> 00:36:25,821
The Seth Rich thing
is really getting suspicious now
522
00:36:25,952 --> 00:36:30,427
This was an assassination
this kid was murdered for political reasons
523
00:36:30,557 --> 00:36:34,423
I think they want to do damage control
with the DNC and the Clinton crime unit
524
00:36:34,554 --> 00:36:38,073
This is exactly the sort of killing
you would expect from the Clintons
525
00:36:38,204 --> 00:36:42,027
The guy got fucking murdered after
he leaked information to WikiLeaks
526
00:36:42,765 --> 00:36:47,196
There have been stories
in which activists in the United States
527
00:36:47,327 --> 00:36:50,717
join forces with the Russians
to push the same stories
528
00:36:51,193 --> 00:36:56,014
And you know, the Seth Rich story
is probably the leading example of that
529
00:36:56,450 --> 00:36:58,710
They were both eager to deny
530
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:03,619
that the Russians were behind the hacking
of the Democratic National Committee
531
00:37:03,749 --> 00:37:07,833
Seth had access to a lot of the IT
I mean, he had the access
532
00:37:07,964 --> 00:37:09,441
He had a lot of stuff
533
00:37:09,569 --> 00:37:11,396
The question is
we don't know what he did with it
534
00:37:11,527 --> 00:37:13,959
Frankly, we don't know if Seth
was a good guy or a bad guy
535
00:37:14,090 --> 00:37:16,956
We don't know if he was a leaker
um... we think he was a leaker
536
00:37:17,087 --> 00:37:19,390
We just don't know
there's so many unanswered questions
537
00:37:24,168 --> 00:37:27,687
Jack Burkman is one of the premiere
hucksters who has latched onto this tragedy
538
00:37:30,642 --> 00:37:33,335
We'll show you the...
here's the office over here
539
00:37:34,378 --> 00:37:37,464
This is... this is it
this is the nerve center, man
540
00:37:38,332 --> 00:37:41,808
Now come down here...
this is the doggy's room
541
00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:47,456
Fake news is a weapon
and, uh, we've even tried to use fake news
542
00:37:47,586 --> 00:37:49,845
Fake news is a good way to drive a story
you know?
543
00:37:49,976 --> 00:37:53,972
You put up a site, instead of New
York 1 - New York 2, and people believe it
544
00:37:54,103 --> 00:37:55,493
And they reprint it, and it gets reprinted
545
00:37:55,623 --> 00:37:59,186
And it can be an effective tool
in driving a story, you know?
546
00:37:59,316 --> 00:38:02,140
People use it, it's become a tool of war
547
00:38:02,792 --> 00:38:05,790
It's like, uh, it's World War I
and it's chemical weapons
548
00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:08,918
People are using them
so you use them, you know?
549
00:38:09,787 --> 00:38:12,262
That's how I'd... that might be the analogy
550
00:38:15,174 --> 00:38:17,650
Jack Burkman, who's a Washington lobbyist
551
00:38:17,780 --> 00:38:20,472
He sends out some legendary
press releases in Washington
552
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:21,951
Reporters are always saying, you know
553
00:38:22,081 --> 00:38:24,862
"Did you see the latest Jack Burkman
press release?" because they're so absurd
554
00:38:24,992 --> 00:38:27,946
In the past, has attached himself
to other dubious causes
555
00:38:28,077 --> 00:38:30,771
including, he tried to get gay
players banned from the NFL
556
00:38:30,899 --> 00:38:32,856
There are four theories, one is what
the police say
557
00:38:32,985 --> 00:38:34,986
it was done in the street, street thugs
558
00:38:35,071 --> 00:38:36,679
B) The Russians did it
559
00:38:36,809 --> 00:38:38,504
C) Hillary and the Democrats did it
560
00:38:38,634 --> 00:38:40,285
D) is kind of everything else
561
00:38:40,937 --> 00:38:43,327
We're conducting our own investigation
562
00:38:43,587 --> 00:38:47,324
He's doing all these crazy things, like
he's doing a re-enactment of the murder
563
00:38:47,714 --> 00:38:51,364
He teams up with some undergraduate
students at George Washington University
564
00:38:51,669 --> 00:38:54,492
and they come up with the idea that the most
obvious explanation for Seth Rich's death
565
00:38:54,623 --> 00:38:56,882
is that a hit squad killed him
I mean, it's absurd
566
00:38:56,968 --> 00:38:59,966
You have a dead DNC
staffer that can't defend himself
567
00:39:00,095 --> 00:39:04,137
It's a good opportunity to make statements
and you know, try to use that
568
00:39:04,265 --> 00:39:07,178
And when we ran sentence
analyses of the media
569
00:39:07,309 --> 00:39:11,652
you really see how Seth Rich pops up
as an interference pattern on the right
570
00:39:12,130 --> 00:39:14,608
when everybody else is talking
Russia and impeachment
571
00:39:18,691 --> 00:39:24,296
DNC leaks came from the inside
it wasn't hackers from the outside at all
572
00:39:24,426 --> 00:39:25,816
And of course, Julian Assange
573
00:39:25,946 --> 00:39:28,639
has specifically denied receiving any
information from the Russian government
574
00:39:28,771 --> 00:39:33,722
Precisely... this whole Russian collusion
narrative, which is, I think
575
00:39:33,853 --> 00:39:38,936
actually quite a foolish narrative, that the
emails were stolen by Russia from the DNC
576
00:39:39,066 --> 00:39:41,239
these are premises
that have not been validated
577
00:39:41,977 --> 00:39:44,802
Yet the left runs with them
as if they were gospel truth
578
00:39:44,930 --> 00:39:46,279
We know that by January
579
00:39:46,409 --> 00:39:50,102
you had the entire intelligence community
onboard saying that it was the Russians
580
00:39:50,189 --> 00:39:51,622
You know that the Mueller indictments
581
00:39:51,753 --> 00:39:55,619
have very specifically indicted
both Russians responsible for the trolls
582
00:39:55,749 --> 00:39:57,662
and Russians responsible for the hacking
583
00:39:57,792 --> 00:40:01,094
And when people say, "Well, we don't
absolutely know with certainty"
584
00:40:01,224 --> 00:40:03,353
What do they want?
Do they want to be in Saint Petersburg
585
00:40:03,483 --> 00:40:07,611
watching every Russian
troll engaging in every act?
586
00:40:07,741 --> 00:40:10,609
I mean, there are levels of proof that
no reasonable person would ask for
587
00:40:10,739 --> 00:40:12,085
It was the Russians
588
00:40:14,301 --> 00:40:19,471
The speculation that you saw online was
given fuel by places like Gateway Pundit
589
00:40:19,601 --> 00:40:21,166
Infowars and Alex Jones
590
00:40:21,296 --> 00:40:23,729
But you also see it pop up on Fox News
591
00:40:24,381 --> 00:40:25,727
Back with a Fox News Alert
592
00:40:25,857 --> 00:40:30,420
A brand new bombshell in the murder
of that guy right there, a DNC staffer
593
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:34,677
An investigator now says Seth Rich
was in contact with WikiLeaks
594
00:40:34,981 --> 00:40:38,892
Fox News, on the website, publishes a story
595
00:40:39,022 --> 00:40:43,801
that there's new evidence that Seth Rich
was in fact the source of the leaks
596
00:40:43,931 --> 00:40:48,362
And what you see is the whole network
from the local affiliate in DC
597
00:40:48,493 --> 00:40:52,706
through the main cable channel
mobilize around this story
598
00:40:52,837 --> 00:40:54,575
Newly discovered evidence shows
599
00:40:54,706 --> 00:41:00,179
that the 27-year-old former DNC employee
was in fact communicating with WikiLeaks
600
00:41:00,310 --> 00:41:04,741
And we can really trace
how a rumor that starts on reddit
601
00:41:04,871 --> 00:41:06,957
ultimately makes its way to Hannity
602
00:41:07,087 --> 00:41:12,516
and you can just literally follow, from the
first to the last, this propaganda pipeline
603
00:41:12,908 --> 00:41:14,907
We see the Russians
604
00:41:15,038 --> 00:41:17,730
We see the alt-right activists
605
00:41:17,817 --> 00:41:20,599
We see the commercial clickbait sites
606
00:41:20,730 --> 00:41:23,423
And then you have, at the very top
607
00:41:23,553 --> 00:41:28,810
a set of a propagandists whose commercial
interests and political interests are aligned
608
00:41:28,941 --> 00:41:35,456
to go out, look for all these stories, and
bring them to the mainstream of Fox News
609
00:41:35,543 --> 00:41:39,107
If it was true that Seth Rich
gave WikiLeaks the DNC emails
610
00:41:39,237 --> 00:41:43,321
wouldn't that blow the whole
Russian collusion narrative
611
00:41:43,451 --> 00:41:45,970
that the media's been
pushing out of the water?
612
00:41:46,101 --> 00:41:47,926
I mean, Fox does some good reporting
613
00:41:48,013 --> 00:41:50,533
There are good, honorable reporters
there doing good reporting
614
00:41:50,663 --> 00:41:53,705
but Sean Hannity is essentially
a consultant for the President
615
00:41:54,704 --> 00:41:57,310
By the way, all those people
in the back are fake news
616
00:42:01,959 --> 00:42:06,129
Spewing the President's
views to his huge audience on Fox
617
00:42:06,260 --> 00:42:10,083
And it's just like, hook, line, and sinker
if Sean Hannity says it, it must be true
618
00:42:10,214 --> 00:42:13,384
And of course, Fox News
is in the attention business
619
00:42:13,516 --> 00:42:17,555
and so there is a sort of fake news
laundering that is occurring
620
00:42:17,687 --> 00:42:21,900
To date, there has been
no new evidence that has come out
621
00:42:22,074 --> 00:42:25,116
that would justify the original story
in the first place
622
00:42:25,246 --> 00:42:27,721
let alone this constant resurgence
623
00:42:35,673 --> 00:42:39,844
It's not just words, and you're
not just pushing something
624
00:42:39,974 --> 00:42:42,667
Like, you're having real
effects on real people
625
00:42:44,057 --> 00:42:48,055
It's hard enough to process the thought
of a family member being murdered
626
00:42:48,185 --> 00:42:53,007
But very quickly, it went to, you know
that I took money from WikiLeaks
627
00:42:53,355 --> 00:42:57,570
That I am cooperating with
a hostile foreign intelligence service
628
00:42:58,699 --> 00:43:00,828
Where is this even coming from?
629
00:43:00,956 --> 00:43:04,303
Being directly accused
of being involved in any of this
630
00:43:04,434 --> 00:43:05,998
just turns our world completely upside down
631
00:43:06,128 --> 00:43:09,429
that was already turned upside down
from the rest of the conspiracies
632
00:43:10,907 --> 00:43:12,645
I still have not been able to sit there
633
00:43:12,775 --> 00:43:16,250
and really properly grieve
the fact that he's not there
634
00:43:17,727 --> 00:43:19,683
The number of times
I've wanted to pick up my phone
635
00:43:19,769 --> 00:43:23,680
and describe this absolutely
ridiculous situation that's going on...
636
00:43:23,811 --> 00:43:25,635
The person I would call would be my brother
637
00:43:27,199 --> 00:43:30,283
After extraordinary backlash from journalists
638
00:43:30,413 --> 00:43:34,194
and especially from the rich family
Fox withdrew it story
639
00:43:34,410 --> 00:43:36,409
They said, "It didn't meet our standards"
640
00:43:37,582 --> 00:43:39,451
What they didn't do is apologize
641
00:43:39,928 --> 00:43:45,055
You had a family that had been told their son
had essentially committed a crime
642
00:43:45,664 --> 00:43:48,357
an assertion for which
they had no proof, and no evidence
643
00:43:48,487 --> 00:43:54,569
Sean Hannity not only hasn't apologized to
the Rich family, but he hasn't disavowed it
644
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,654
Out of respect for the family's wishes
645
00:43:57,785 --> 00:44:02,737
for now, I am not discussing
this matter at this time
646
00:44:03,302 --> 00:44:06,169
I had no clue why they...
why they won't say it
647
00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:10,297
Pushing out false statements and
not be willing to accept that they were false
648
00:44:10,428 --> 00:44:15,597
after being proven numerous, numerous
times false... it doesn't make sense to me
649
00:44:20,767 --> 00:44:23,852
Now the real question is, who's to blame?
650
00:44:23,983 --> 00:44:27,111
Are we going to say
"Oh, look, reddit did this!"
651
00:44:27,241 --> 00:44:29,890
Or are we going to say
"Oh look, Hannity did this!"
652
00:44:30,412 --> 00:44:33,887
When people started
looking around, what happened?
653
00:44:34,540 --> 00:44:38,753
The answer always fell on what's new
and what's new was the technology
654
00:44:44,879 --> 00:44:47,355
Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg will testify
655
00:44:47,486 --> 00:44:52,048
in front of a joint hearing of the Senate
Judiciary and Commerce Committees today
656
00:44:53,178 --> 00:44:55,219
Senators will demand
answers from Zuckerberg
657
00:44:55,350 --> 00:44:59,086
about Facebook's failure to protect
millions of users' private information
658
00:45:00,042 --> 00:45:03,039
And they've actually added
extra seats to this hearing room
659
00:45:03,170 --> 00:45:06,906
to accommodate all the Senators who are
going to be questioning Zuckerberg today...
660
00:45:07,037 --> 00:45:08,514
44 of them
661
00:45:08,644 --> 00:45:12,207
Zuckerberg is going
to be in the hot seat for hours
662
00:45:14,162 --> 00:45:15,682
If you think about Facebook specifically
663
00:45:15,813 --> 00:45:18,983
there's more than 2 billion people around
the world that log into it every month
664
00:45:19,158 --> 00:45:22,981
There has never been anything like
Facebook in the history of humanity
665
00:45:23,111 --> 00:45:25,371
There are ads there
there's news there
666
00:45:25,501 --> 00:45:27,629
There's your personal life, your friends
667
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,191
If he was to honestly say that he would
no longer be selling any data, um
668
00:45:32,322 --> 00:45:34,493
and if he would own up to it, then...
669
00:45:34,624 --> 00:45:36,709
They've done better
than anyone else on the planet
670
00:45:36,841 --> 00:45:39,187
by sucking in every piece
of information about you
671
00:45:39,317 --> 00:45:42,445
and what you do and what you think
and it's sort of like a digital fence
672
00:45:42,573 --> 00:45:44,530
They've gotten everyone
to paint the fence, you know
673
00:45:44,659 --> 00:45:47,528
with you...
your data, and they benefit from it
674
00:45:47,658 --> 00:45:52,089
It's designed to actually give so much
information about us individually
675
00:45:52,481 --> 00:45:56,087
so that Facebook can
turn around and sell insight
676
00:45:56,173 --> 00:46:00,605
into what kind of communication
will best manipulate me
677
00:46:00,735 --> 00:46:02,343
to do what someone else wants to do
678
00:46:04,298 --> 00:46:08,512
As Facebook has grown, people
everywhere have gotten a powerful new tool
679
00:46:08,641 --> 00:46:12,030
for staying connected to the people
they love, for making their voices heard
680
00:46:12,161 --> 00:46:14,550
and for building communities and businesses
681
00:46:15,116 --> 00:46:17,288
But it's clear now that we didn't do enough
682
00:46:17,418 --> 00:46:20,329
to prevent these tools
from being used for harm as well
683
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:24,109
And that goes for fake news
the foreign interference in elections
684
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,801
and hate speech
as well as developers and data privacy
685
00:46:28,671 --> 00:46:32,103
We didn't take a broad-enough
view of our responsibility
686
00:46:32,233 --> 00:46:36,577
and that was a big mistake
and it was my mistake, and I'm sorry
687
00:46:37,447 --> 00:46:40,836
There's a lot of things that have been going
on at Facebook, for a long time
688
00:46:40,964 --> 00:46:42,312
of people who've covered it a long time
689
00:46:42,442 --> 00:46:48,264
And a lot of them were around privacy
violations, sort of sketchy use of data
690
00:46:48,394 --> 00:46:50,872
always pushing the envelope...
growth, growth, growth
691
00:46:51,002 --> 00:46:52,869
We're here because
of what you Mr. Zuckerberg
692
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,649
have described as a breach of trust
693
00:46:55,781 --> 00:47:01,081
A quiz app used by approximately
300,000 people led to information
694
00:47:01,211 --> 00:47:05,077
about 87 million Facebook users
being obtained by the company
695
00:47:05,208 --> 00:47:06,989
Cambridge Analytica
696
00:47:07,076 --> 00:47:11,030
So how is that possible? I mean, their
systems are very good at detecting scrapers
697
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:12,724
spam accounts, and things like that
698
00:47:12,855 --> 00:47:15,418
It's kind of mind-boggling
that they weren't able to detect this
699
00:47:15,548 --> 00:47:17,850
And I think the reason is
because they didn't care
700
00:47:18,242 --> 00:47:19,762
Not that, you know
they were being malicious
701
00:47:19,893 --> 00:47:21,716
It's just that it was something
they were not interested in
702
00:47:21,848 --> 00:47:26,496
They had built a system where they didn't
know what people were doing on it, really
703
00:47:27,192 --> 00:47:31,667
And when malevolent actors
get involved with the platform
704
00:47:31,797 --> 00:47:36,098
you began to see how easily
manipulable this platform was
705
00:47:36,446 --> 00:47:38,487
just by using it the way it worked
706
00:47:38,704 --> 00:47:41,398
The Russians, they were
a customer of Facebook
707
00:47:41,571 --> 00:47:44,917
They were, they used the tools
that were built in this country
708
00:47:45,048 --> 00:47:50,043
to create discord and dissension across
our nation in lots of very important areas
709
00:47:50,391 --> 00:47:54,562
And some people, like Donald Trump, say
not one vote was shifted, but that's not true
710
00:47:54,823 --> 00:48:03,078
Personally, I think, uh, the... the idea
that you know, fake news on Facebook
711
00:48:03,208 --> 00:48:08,161
of which, you know, it's a... it's a very
small amount of... of, um, the content
712
00:48:08,291 --> 00:48:12,982
influenced the... the election in any way
I think, is a... a pretty crazy idea
713
00:48:13,764 --> 00:48:18,978
So they moved from, "It was crazy to think
so," to, "Oh, okay, there was a little thing"
714
00:48:19,108 --> 00:48:22,236
And then, "Oh, there was more"
and then... I don't believe any of it
715
00:48:22,367 --> 00:48:25,887
I don't... I don't... the only reason I don't
believe it is because I don't think they know
716
00:48:26,017 --> 00:48:30,362
These unverified, divisive pages
are on Facebook today
717
00:48:31,317 --> 00:48:33,011
They look a lot like the anonymous groups
718
00:48:33,142 --> 00:48:39,050
the Russian agents used to spread
propaganda during the 2016 election
719
00:48:39,831 --> 00:48:44,481
Are you able to confirm whether they're
Russian-created groups? Yes or no
720
00:48:45,393 --> 00:48:47,305
Um, Senator, last week
721
00:48:47,435 --> 00:48:52,084
we actually announced a... a major change
to our ads and pages policies
722
00:48:52,215 --> 00:48:57,428
that we will be verifying the identity of
um, every single advertiser...
723
00:48:57,556 --> 00:48:59,557
I'm asking about these specific ones
do you know whether they are?
724
00:48:59,643 --> 00:49:03,728
I am not familiar with
those pieces of content specifically
725
00:49:04,248 --> 00:49:05,639
That's the way it was architected
726
00:49:05,770 --> 00:49:08,463
It was architected
to be a platform free-for-all
727
00:49:08,593 --> 00:49:12,460
where nobody had responsibility
except they got all the money
728
00:49:12,764 --> 00:49:14,589
Probably a lot of the people
involved in the hearings
729
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,455
didn't actually understand
the technology, and the implications
730
00:49:17,587 --> 00:49:19,715
And so
you know, it's hard... if you really...
731
00:49:19,845 --> 00:49:22,626
Don't really understand what's happening
you know, you can't really question
732
00:49:22,756 --> 00:49:25,233
Let's say I'm emailing about Black Panther
733
00:49:25,363 --> 00:49:29,056
within WhatsApp, do I get
a Black Panther banner ad?
734
00:49:30,011 --> 00:49:31,402
Senator, we don't...
735
00:49:31,532 --> 00:49:34,270
Facebook's systems do not see
the content of messages
736
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:35,790
being transferred over WhatsApp
737
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:37,528
Yeah, I know, but that's...
that's not what I'm asking...
738
00:49:37,658 --> 00:49:41,829
Everybody went in knowing they had
four minutes, or whatever, to ask questions
739
00:49:41,959 --> 00:49:45,262
and they were very focused
particularly on privacy concerns
740
00:49:45,565 --> 00:49:51,083
And nobody wanted to waste time
on fake news, on Russia, on foreign actors
741
00:49:51,344 --> 00:49:55,689
When you sign up for Facebook
you sign up, uh, for Terms of Service
742
00:49:55,819 --> 00:49:57,165
Are you familiar with that?
743
00:49:57,295 --> 00:49:59,990
- Yes
- Okay, it says...
744
00:50:00,118 --> 00:50:01,771
What's about these Terms of Service?
745
00:50:02,203 --> 00:50:05,897
Like, what? Like, as if Terms of Service
were our biggest national emergency
746
00:50:06,028 --> 00:50:08,459
Oh my god, they...
you can't read Terms of Service
747
00:50:08,591 --> 00:50:10,720
Like, who cares? Who cares?
748
00:50:10,850 --> 00:50:13,718
Like, they just... they were
not focusing on the problem at hand
749
00:50:14,413 --> 00:50:17,715
It was just a ridiculous circus
and so therefore Mark came off well
750
00:50:17,844 --> 00:50:22,146
because he didn't, like
vomit on the desk or something
751
00:50:22,276 --> 00:50:24,579
Like, he didn't, like, fall apart
and he answered questions
752
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:26,491
But you know
"I'll get back to you, Senator''
753
00:50:27,186 --> 00:50:30,271
"That's an interesting question,Senator"
he said nothing, he said nothing
754
00:50:30,357 --> 00:50:32,269
It will take some time to work
through all the changes
755
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,180
we need to make across the company
756
00:50:34,311 --> 00:50:36,266
But I'm committed to getting this right
757
00:50:37,439 --> 00:50:39,915
I don't think they're malevolent people
758
00:50:40,046 --> 00:50:44,825
Mark is lovely, he's polite
he's earnest, he wants to learn
759
00:50:45,346 --> 00:50:49,821
It's just that their basic premise
is that this is just a benign platform
760
00:50:50,342 --> 00:50:54,296
These are the most powerful tools
in the history of our planet
761
00:50:54,383 --> 00:50:56,121
they are, they just are
762
00:50:56,295 --> 00:50:59,596
When you have these tools, people
are going to find ways to use them
763
00:50:59,726 --> 00:51:02,421
in ways that are
more nefarious than other ways
764
00:51:02,551 --> 00:51:04,202
Or at least experiment around them
765
00:51:05,070 --> 00:51:10,893
Once you have a gun, you want to shoot it
you just do, like, that's what a gun is for
766
00:51:12,064 --> 00:51:16,193
A lot of these technologies are guns
and they're going to be shot
767
00:51:24,057 --> 00:51:26,880
I think if you're Vladimir Putin, you wake up
every morning and you laugh
768
00:51:27,185 --> 00:51:29,573
because they did some of this stuff to us
769
00:51:29,705 --> 00:51:32,833
but the worst part of 2016
is the stuff we did to ourselves
770
00:51:32,918 --> 00:51:36,004
And the worst part of what's happening
now, is we're still doing it to ourselves
771
00:51:37,088 --> 00:51:39,697
The attack is now coming
from inside the house
772
00:51:40,348 --> 00:51:42,477
You have small campaigns
using these techniques
773
00:51:42,607 --> 00:51:45,083
where you have individual
candidates using these techniques
774
00:51:45,214 --> 00:51:47,299
where everybody thinks
they need to use data better
775
00:51:47,431 --> 00:51:50,644
and more effectively
to target the unknown voter
776
00:51:50,774 --> 00:51:54,381
or the hardcore voter, or the radicalized
voter one way or the other
777
00:51:54,511 --> 00:51:58,029
When this is the environment
the Russians don't have to do very much
778
00:51:58,682 --> 00:52:00,377
We're doing it to ourselves now
779
00:52:06,283 --> 00:52:08,631
If somebody has chemical weapons
780
00:52:09,543 --> 00:52:14,366
and you deem it necessary to have chemical
weapons to deter the chemical weapons
781
00:52:14,497 --> 00:52:18,059
then you know, this is a classic
Cold War phenomenon
782
00:52:19,492 --> 00:52:21,578
On the Democratic side
783
00:52:21,708 --> 00:52:26,010
There was a feeling
that the Democrats were behind in this race
784
00:52:26,314 --> 00:52:29,051
to use social media, to use technology
785
00:52:29,398 --> 00:52:32,743
So there were some Democrats
it turns out, who were thinking, like
786
00:52:33,481 --> 00:52:35,307
"You know, we have to catch up in this race''
787
00:52:35,437 --> 00:52:38,088
''We have to understand these tools"
788
00:52:38,218 --> 00:52:42,389
And one of the races that was
sort of a natural to experiment in
789
00:52:42,519 --> 00:52:47,080
was the special Senate race
in December of 2017
790
00:52:47,819 --> 00:52:52,858
It pitted an extremely conservative Christian
named Roy Moore, a former judge
791
00:52:53,032 --> 00:52:56,943
who was the Republican
against a Democrat named Doug Jones
792
00:52:57,073 --> 00:52:58,637
There weren't a lot of other races going on
793
00:52:58,767 --> 00:53:02,156
so Republicans and Democrats
were very focused on this race
794
00:53:02,286 --> 00:53:07,326
You have this old school
leveraging racist rhetoric...
795
00:53:07,674 --> 00:53:09,020
All the women who are coming out
796
00:53:09,150 --> 00:53:12,409
and accusing Roy Moore
of advances on underaged women
797
00:53:12,539 --> 00:53:14,103
and really inappropriate conduct
798
00:53:14,234 --> 00:53:18,535
that was feeding in to all
of Democrats' fears coming out of 2016
799
00:53:18,665 --> 00:53:20,230
What if this is happening again?
800
00:53:20,316 --> 00:53:22,531
What if these guys
are winning elections again?
801
00:53:22,749 --> 00:53:26,182
So, Reid Hoffman
the Silicon Valley billionaire
802
00:53:26,312 --> 00:53:32,827
decides to bankroll his own pro- Democratic
campaign, to dampen Roy Moore's chances
803
00:53:33,132 --> 00:53:35,044
We got $100,000
804
00:53:35,174 --> 00:53:38,737
I don't know if that was Mr. Hoffman's
money, or what... what it was
805
00:53:38,867 --> 00:53:43,864
All I know is that money arrived
and it was, uh, time to go to work
806
00:53:44,863 --> 00:53:51,944
The Alabama Project, as I titled it
was an effort to use Facebook
807
00:53:52,075 --> 00:53:53,942
and emulate some of the tactics
808
00:53:54,073 --> 00:53:57,158
that had been used against
Democrats in recent years
809
00:53:57,288 --> 00:54:00,460
Doug Jones didn't know
that this was happening on his behalf
810
00:54:00,590 --> 00:54:02,414
- Doug Jones
- Doug Jones
811
00:54:02,588 --> 00:54:06,977
It was an incredible run, it was an
incredible election, it was a fun campaign
812
00:54:07,107 --> 00:54:10,192
Nerve-wracking campaign
got a little weird, on occasion
813
00:54:10,322 --> 00:54:12,365
Uh... and then election
night was just amazing
814
00:54:12,885 --> 00:54:15,449
It is absolutely deafening in here
815
00:54:15,577 --> 00:54:18,186
This news just coming
across the screen there...
816
00:54:18,577 --> 00:54:24,180
Your election was won by about
20,000 votes, a fairly small margin...?
817
00:54:24,961 --> 00:54:28,481
Oh yeah, out of 1.3 million
I would say that that was relatively tight
818
00:54:29,307 --> 00:54:35,998
Doug Jones won, absolutely all I did
was, uh, push a little from the outside
819
00:54:37,475 --> 00:54:43,558
Our effort, we were hoping, would help
Republicans not turn out to vote
820
00:54:44,035 --> 00:54:49,770
So we created a page called Dry Alabama
a conservative, pro-Roy Moore
821
00:54:49,901 --> 00:54:54,028
pro-Republican bunch of people
who wanted to make Alabama dry again
822
00:54:54,157 --> 00:54:56,504
because the liquor laws
had gotten too liberal
823
00:54:57,243 --> 00:55:02,717
And our idea was that if you show this
to moderate suburban Republicans
824
00:55:02,847 --> 00:55:07,323
they will say, "Oh man... these Roy Moore
supporters, they are crazy
825
00:55:07,453 --> 00:55:13,013
And if these Roy Moore supporters are
so crazy, then, uh, I just can't support it"
826
00:55:13,579 --> 00:55:14,969
that was the idea
827
00:55:15,055 --> 00:55:19,269
If you're like me, you're fearful
for the souls of our brothers and sisters
828
00:55:19,661 --> 00:55:24,656
We made videos, and some
of the videos were just "mocktail recipes"
829
00:55:24,787 --> 00:55:30,088
Try this moral take on a sinful beverage
a Righteous Mint Julep
830
00:55:30,392 --> 00:55:33,302
I have a knack for creating new voices
831
00:55:33,433 --> 00:55:37,473
And in this particular case
it sounded like a real conservative
832
00:55:37,603 --> 00:55:39,993
You were pretending
to be somebody that you weren't?
833
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:41,905
Oh, sure, sure
834
00:55:42,036 --> 00:55:46,553
Um... I was definitely pretending to be
a conservative when I wrote that stuff
835
00:55:46,901 --> 00:55:50,377
I felt empowered
for the first time ever, really
836
00:55:50,507 --> 00:55:56,806
to finally give maybe a Republican Party
a taste of its own medicine a little bit
837
00:55:56,937 --> 00:56:02,585
Fundamentally, the fakery is going to happen
838
00:56:02,933 --> 00:56:06,799
It's happening to me
so why should it not happen to you?
839
00:56:08,449 --> 00:56:13,012
It was December of 2018 when
The New York Times article came out
840
00:56:13,143 --> 00:56:17,964
in which the allegation was there was
creation of some fake news type accounts
841
00:56:18,399 --> 00:56:21,962
uh, to try to influence
the election in my favor
842
00:56:22,092 --> 00:56:24,612
And I was absolutely, one, stunned
843
00:56:24,742 --> 00:56:27,696
Two, pretty outraged
pretty, pretty angry about that
844
00:56:27,827 --> 00:56:32,301
And immediately said so, and immediately
called for, uh, an investigation
845
00:56:33,648 --> 00:56:37,514
At least two groups of Democrats
that we've found out about
846
00:56:37,645 --> 00:56:41,555
were experimenting
with essentially Russian techniques
847
00:56:41,685 --> 00:56:43,901
New Knowledge was part of that
so was Tovo Labs
848
00:56:44,031 --> 00:56:49,679
And it turns out, so was my little group
um... I did not know that at the time
849
00:56:49,811 --> 00:56:53,024
The New Knowledge stuff
some of that seems pretty sketchy to me
850
00:56:53,155 --> 00:56:56,892
So let's start with the idea
that reality is a construct of your mind
851
00:56:57,022 --> 00:57:01,670
And what that means, in a philosophical
context, is, um, that eve...
852
00:57:01,801 --> 00:57:04,191
all of us live in our subjective reality
853
00:57:05,103 --> 00:57:09,318
A little cybersecurity company called
New Knowledge based in Austin, Texas
854
00:57:09,448 --> 00:57:15,878
they got some money from Reid Hoffman
through a passthrough to this little project
855
00:57:18,397 --> 00:57:23,437
This group created a conservative
Alabamian Facebook page
856
00:57:23,567 --> 00:57:25,826
to try to influence conservatives
857
00:57:25,957 --> 00:57:28,606
even though they were Democrats
they were liberals
858
00:57:28,737 --> 00:57:32,647
These were the guys the Senate hired
to do a comprehensive report
859
00:57:32,777 --> 00:57:34,515
which was quite a well-done report
860
00:57:34,647 --> 00:57:36,384
on what the Russians did in 2016
861
00:57:36,514 --> 00:57:41,075
And here, they're caught uh, doing a little
bit of it them themselves, in US politics
862
00:57:41,206 --> 00:57:44,203
It's... It's very embarrassing
for them very damaging for them
863
00:57:50,981 --> 00:57:54,500
Among other things, they endorsed
a conservative write-in candidate
864
00:57:54,848 --> 00:57:57,368
to try to draw votes from Roy Moore
865
00:57:58,411 --> 00:58:00,409
New Knowledge has gotten
a ton of investment
866
00:58:00,540 --> 00:58:03,494
to conduct research
to counter disinformation
867
00:58:03,624 --> 00:58:06,404
and they themselves are currently
operationalizing disinformation
868
00:58:06,535 --> 00:58:07,969
It's really problematic
869
00:58:26,824 --> 00:58:28,214
It's still a little bit mysterious
870
00:58:28,344 --> 00:58:30,647
because New Knowledge
and Jonathon Morgan, the CEO
871
00:58:30,778 --> 00:58:33,558
was I think lying to me
about various things
872
00:58:33,688 --> 00:58:37,816
And it was kind of loosely run
and involved multiple people
873
00:58:37,946 --> 00:58:41,769
and I think some people had different
ideas about it about than others
874
00:58:41,899 --> 00:58:44,592
And... But everyone's... At this point
everybody's kind of, like lying
875
00:58:44,723 --> 00:58:46,548
and pointing the finger
at somebody else, so...
876
00:58:48,503 --> 00:58:51,978
As a Secretary of State
who has to certify these election results
877
00:58:52,109 --> 00:58:55,542
you must be concerned
about these incredibly deceptive tactics
878
00:58:55,672 --> 00:58:57,062
Yeah, but seriously, now
879
00:58:57,148 --> 00:58:59,843
What... What we're talking
about here is not anything different
880
00:58:59,973 --> 00:59:03,405
than what has occurred in US politics
881
00:59:03,535 --> 00:59:07,489
or international politics
in the history of political systems
882
00:59:07,575 --> 00:59:11,746
The only difference is now people are able
to do that, in many people's minds
883
00:59:11,876 --> 00:59:14,353
more effectively because of social media
884
00:59:14,483 --> 00:59:17,525
So these tactics don't raise
a special type of alarm?
885
00:59:17,958 --> 00:59:21,001
Well the problem is
is you can't ever fully address 'em
886
00:59:21,086 --> 00:59:26,299
because you can't control the behavior
of people who are engaging in that activity
887
00:59:27,647 --> 00:59:32,079
John Merrill, Alabama Secretary of State is
definitely a part of the Republican machine
888
00:59:32,209 --> 00:59:36,075
and he will settle things on terms that are
favorable to the Republican machine
889
00:59:36,207 --> 00:59:40,159
To some degree, I was hoping that there
would be more reaction from the right
890
00:59:40,290 --> 00:59:42,463
I was hoping that there would be more
891
00:59:42,593 --> 00:59:44,852
"Oh, well, that's terrible what you did"
892
00:59:44,983 --> 00:59:47,284
But that didn't happen, so much
893
00:59:47,458 --> 00:59:50,281
Are there actions
that you would take as secretary of state
894
00:59:50,368 --> 00:59:52,932
to defend against
disinformation in elections?
895
00:59:53,324 --> 00:59:55,453
Well, if there were instances
896
00:59:55,539 --> 01:00:00,492
where the law was broken, in regard
to campaigning, we definitely will
897
01:00:00,623 --> 01:00:05,445
But if it's simply someone
doing a superior job to another candidate
898
01:00:05,575 --> 01:00:08,660
without going
outside the boundaries of the law
899
01:00:09,008 --> 01:00:13,092
then we can't pick apart
what certain people are doing
900
01:00:13,220 --> 01:00:16,176
because at that point
that's not making the most effective
901
01:00:16,306 --> 01:00:17,827
or best use of our time
902
01:00:19,043 --> 01:00:22,996
I can't say that we actually
made the difference
903
01:00:23,519 --> 01:00:26,994
I wouldn't go that far
but think of the math here
904
01:00:27,124 --> 01:00:28,992
Three million people saw this ad
905
01:00:29,557 --> 01:00:37,377
If we affected 1% of them, so that they
ended up not voting, that's 30,000 votes
906
01:00:37,986 --> 01:00:40,635
Doug Jones won by 21,000 votes
907
01:00:41,634 --> 01:00:48,933
If we affected one in a thousand of the
people who saw that ad, that's 3,000 votes
908
01:00:49,064 --> 01:00:55,103
That's about equal to Doug Jones's winning
margin in 11 of the counties that he won
909
01:00:55,668 --> 01:00:57,884
Imagine a bunch of these efforts
910
01:00:58,014 --> 01:01:01,707
Each whittling away just a little bit
of the vote, that's what you...
911
01:01:01,838 --> 01:01:05,486
That's all you need
if you're talking about a close race
912
01:01:06,181 --> 01:01:10,005
So yeah, I have a moral imperative
to use these techniques against you
913
01:01:10,135 --> 01:01:12,785
I absolutely have to
because otherwise...
914
01:01:14,045 --> 01:01:17,348
What's going to happen to, uh
you know, my political perspective?
915
01:01:17,478 --> 01:01:19,694
It's going to be drowned out completely
916
01:01:19,824 --> 01:01:23,472
The... The situation is that one side
is obeying a set of rules
917
01:01:23,604 --> 01:01:27,643
that the other side will never respect, ever
918
01:01:28,469 --> 01:01:31,509
And they will not change the rules
919
01:01:31,641 --> 01:01:36,635
until the rules start smacking
them in the face a few times
920
01:01:37,678 --> 01:01:39,331
Two wrongs do not make a right
921
01:01:39,461 --> 01:01:41,068
That's... That's... That's crazy
922
01:01:41,198 --> 01:01:43,632
If... If all of a sudden the left sees
923
01:01:43,762 --> 01:01:45,935
"We've got to do this
because the right's been doing it"
924
01:01:46,021 --> 01:01:48,280
and they start winning, then
the right's going to up their game
925
01:01:48,410 --> 01:01:51,061
then the left's going to up their game
and the next thing you know
926
01:01:51,191 --> 01:01:54,277
there is nothing about
this democracy that is real
927
01:01:58,577 --> 01:02:03,443
I wonder about how intense
the spiral will be
928
01:02:04,095 --> 01:02:07,309
I wonder if there's not something
more toxic with all this
929
01:02:10,698 --> 01:02:12,262
We don't know the effects of fake news
930
01:02:12,392 --> 01:02:14,217
We don't know the...
We don't know where this is going
931
01:02:14,347 --> 01:02:15,738
It's changing by the day
932
01:02:15,869 --> 01:02:20,039
It's the Industrial Revolution, but faster
bigger, and maybe more consequential
933
01:02:20,428 --> 01:02:22,645
We don't know where it's going
934
01:02:23,340 --> 01:02:25,165
I see myself drowning
935
01:02:25,296 --> 01:02:28,076
drowning in an ocean that gets
bigger and bigger and bigger
936
01:02:28,207 --> 01:02:30,074
I would prefer a world without fake news
937
01:02:30,205 --> 01:02:33,202
But, uh, if others are using it
I'm gonna use it
938
01:02:35,026 --> 01:02:40,545
NBC News is reporting tonight about an
apparent effort to smear Robert Mueller
939
01:02:40,675 --> 01:02:42,153
The plot appeared to be the latest
940
01:02:42,283 --> 01:02:44,152
and one of the more bizarre
in a string of attempts
941
01:02:44,282 --> 01:02:48,496
by supporters of President Trump
to discredit Mr. Mueller's investigation
942
01:02:48,582 --> 01:02:50,582
as a hoax, and a witch hunt
943
01:02:53,710 --> 01:02:56,707
Jacob, I feel like I've known you for years
I'm glad you're finally here
944
01:02:56,838 --> 01:02:58,705
Yeah, yeah, absolutely
945
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:02,223
Today at the press conference, the main
mission is to set the story straight
946
01:03:02,485 --> 01:03:07,829
And, uh, we have to lay out, in detail
the accusations of our client
947
01:03:09,350 --> 01:03:12,000
This, for us, is not about infamy
it's about legacy
948
01:03:12,130 --> 01:03:15,606
We have to get this done, and we have
to prove that Bob Mueller is a sex offender
949
01:03:15,692 --> 01:03:17,648
and I think we're going to do that
950
01:03:18,473 --> 01:03:19,862
We'll do that
951
01:03:20,037 --> 01:03:21,645
We'll do that if we were seeking
infamy and publicity
952
01:03:21,775 --> 01:03:25,033
we'd be doing other things
this is too hard
953
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:27,684
- Yeah, believe me
- This is too hard
954
01:03:30,333 --> 01:03:32,940
We put out a notice offering a reward
955
01:03:33,070 --> 01:03:38,023
$25,000 reward for whistleblowers
either within Bob Mueller's organization
956
01:03:38,154 --> 01:03:40,934
or within the FBI, for bad stuff
957
01:03:41,065 --> 01:03:43,715
We were looking for dirt
on McCabe or Mueller
958
01:03:43,844 --> 01:03:45,410
Jack Burkman says
959
01:03:45,540 --> 01:03:48,538
he's going to bring forward a sexual
assault accuser against Robert Mueller
960
01:03:49,232 --> 01:03:53,533
And the accuser is going to come
to this press conference
961
01:03:53,664 --> 01:03:55,705
And so this obviously
an explosive charge
962
01:03:55,837 --> 01:04:00,268
So, he saw a lot of interest from media
outlets willing to look into this
963
01:04:00,398 --> 01:04:02,310
if this were something that were true
964
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,783
despite even the fact that
these people are fringe characters
965
01:04:06,870 --> 01:04:09,912
You're on, like, ten magazine covers
do you know that?
966
01:04:10,042 --> 01:04:12,128
- You're on the cover
- Well, I... I don't know how many people
967
01:04:12,258 --> 01:04:15,256
how many, uh, publications
have called me a Nazi this week
968
01:04:15,386 --> 01:04:17,429
I mean, geez...
969
01:04:17,559 --> 01:04:23,120
Jacob Wohl is a guy who rose to fame
by being an obnoxious character on Twitter
970
01:04:23,250 --> 01:04:25,596
Jacob Wohl is a charlatan
971
01:04:25,726 --> 01:04:30,940
who is part of the bizarro world
Trumpverse information machine
972
01:04:31,070 --> 01:04:34,068
He has wanted to be more important
than he is for some time
973
01:04:34,198 --> 01:04:37,413
You know, I think it kind of hurt Jack's
case to have Jacob also involved in it
974
01:04:37,544 --> 01:04:40,107
because he was already such
an untrustworthy character
975
01:04:41,063 --> 01:04:42,931
Any word from our gal?
976
01:04:44,581 --> 01:04:47,363
Um... Yeah, yeah, she's just... She's...
977
01:04:48,709 --> 01:04:50,143
No, okay, that's fine
978
01:04:50,273 --> 01:04:53,053
You think she'll do it in the... You think
she'll... Will she pick another day?
979
01:04:54,574 --> 01:04:56,313
I think there's coin flip odds
980
01:04:56,443 --> 01:04:58,659
All right... Off we go!
981
01:04:59,179 --> 01:05:02,004
Let's say that she made
a last-minute decision...
982
01:05:02,351 --> 01:05:06,000
I'll just say, in the last 30 minutes
because of threats and other things
983
01:05:06,132 --> 01:05:07,825
she's made a decision
not to appear today
984
01:05:07,955 --> 01:05:10,171
but we're going to go over the details
of her sworn statement
985
01:05:10,302 --> 01:05:11,648
- She's extremely scared
- Yeah
986
01:05:11,779 --> 01:05:13,951
I mean, a flurry of death threats
and she's... she's safe
987
01:05:14,081 --> 01:05:16,080
You could say something like
"We have her in a safe house"
988
01:05:16,210 --> 01:05:17,644
- I'll leave all that to you
- Yeah
989
01:05:17,817 --> 01:05:19,512
Yeah, and just say
"In the last 30 minutes"
990
01:05:19,643 --> 01:05:22,466
because I'm telling all these reporters
she's there, otherwise they won't come
991
01:05:22,597 --> 01:05:23,943
Yeah
992
01:05:24,291 --> 01:05:27,289
You know this... reporters are...
They're lazy, and they're dumb
993
01:05:27,419 --> 01:05:29,547
- Right
- They go to Harvard, but they're dumb
994
01:05:29,679 --> 01:05:31,590
- They just... They don't...
- A journalism major? I mean, come on
995
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:34,240
- They're just... They're dummies
- Here's how you write an article
996
01:05:34,369 --> 01:05:35,717
You can learn that in about 12 minutes
997
01:05:35,847 --> 01:05:37,325
- Yeah, what... What do they teach them
- Yeah, exactly
998
01:05:37,976 --> 01:05:39,670
Journalism...
999
01:05:44,796 --> 01:05:47,404
And what the hell is this
thing, here? Is this for us?
1000
01:05:47,535 --> 01:05:48,925
It is, uh-oh
1001
01:05:51,922 --> 01:05:54,138
Hang on, I've got to take a picture of this
I've got to take a picture...
1002
01:05:59,047 --> 01:06:01,046
The bussed in a mob, it looks like
1003
01:06:02,002 --> 01:06:03,522
- Look at that, they bussed in...
- Really...? Is that antifa...?
1004
01:06:03,609 --> 01:06:05,999
- Who's bussing...?
- They've... They've bussed in a mob
1005
01:06:06,129 --> 01:06:10,170
Jesus, look at this, huh?
Wow, we must rate, you know?
1006
01:06:12,949 --> 01:06:15,295
- Yeah, I'm... I'm Jacob
- You're Jacob? Hi Jacob
1007
01:06:15,426 --> 01:06:16,817
I'm Adam Goldman, New York Times
1008
01:06:16,947 --> 01:06:19,596
Adam Goldman, that's right I think you
followed on Twitter recently, or did you?
1009
01:06:19,728 --> 01:06:24,418
Yeah, yeah, looks like they
have a rent-a-mob Soros bus here
1010
01:06:25,028 --> 01:06:27,504
- Is that... How do you know that?
- I just saw it out the window
1011
01:06:27,591 --> 01:06:30,372
So that is a rent-a-mob Soros...?
How... How can you say that?
1012
01:06:30,502 --> 01:06:32,413
I'm sitting behind Wohl, and they're like
1013
01:06:32,544 --> 01:06:36,454
"Ha-ha-ha, here's a Soros-funded
bus bringing protestors in"
1014
01:06:36,802 --> 01:06:39,321
And I said to him
I said, "That's just a bus"
1015
01:06:39,451 --> 01:06:41,016
It looks, that's what it is
1016
01:06:41,102 --> 01:06:42,840
- That looks... So you have no evi...
- It fit the profile
1017
01:06:42,970 --> 01:06:44,317
- Wait, that's a good story
- I said it looks like...
1018
01:06:44,448 --> 01:06:47,793
You have no evidence to suggest that is a
Soros mob bus, but yeah, you're saying it
1019
01:06:47,923 --> 01:06:50,573
Sorry, you've got to be careful what you say
this is just chatter between two guys
1020
01:06:50,704 --> 01:06:52,486
I gotcha, right, right, right
1021
01:06:52,572 --> 01:06:56,178
There's a bus outside, you're making
a claim that it's a Soros mobster bus?
1022
01:06:56,525 --> 01:06:58,089
- Probably is
- Probably
1023
01:06:59,870 --> 01:07:02,825
Then he goes and tweets it
tweets a picture of the bus
1024
01:07:02,956 --> 01:07:04,650
He's just created fake news
1025
01:07:05,083 --> 01:07:08,169
You see the toxicity
that ends up on Twitter
1026
01:07:08,256 --> 01:07:11,297
and on other social media
and these guys are the creators
1027
01:07:11,993 --> 01:07:13,424
It offends me as a journalist
1028
01:07:13,512 --> 01:07:16,728
somebody who spends an enormous
amount of time trying to get to the facts
1029
01:07:16,858 --> 01:07:18,813
that they're polluting real news
1030
01:07:20,247 --> 01:07:24,461
I'm on the train, Amtrak headed to DC from
New York to go to this press conference
1031
01:07:24,592 --> 01:07:28,371
It's in the Rosslyn Holiday Inn, where Jack
Burkman normally holds these things
1032
01:07:28,545 --> 01:07:31,804
And it comes to light that
the accuser's not going to show up
1033
01:07:33,151 --> 01:07:37,625
"It's not surprising
that this isn't panning out right"
1034
01:07:39,276 --> 01:07:41,926
Will, good to finally meet you
I see you on Twitter all the time
1035
01:07:42,057 --> 01:07:44,836
Yeah, you... you as well
so what's the deal? No accuser?
1036
01:07:44,967 --> 01:07:46,358
We're going to go right in right now
1037
01:07:46,488 --> 01:07:48,357
- See you in a sec...
- All right, see you soon, all right...
1038
01:07:51,180 --> 01:07:52,831
No, what's happened
she's... We'll talk about that
1039
01:07:58,261 --> 01:08:00,433
She's... I'll let Jacob tell you about that
she's got a lot... a number of them
1040
01:08:18,551 --> 01:08:19,941
Okay, good idea, good idea
1041
01:08:20,072 --> 01:08:21,418
We're taking a handful
of questions, that's the key
1042
01:08:21,549 --> 01:08:22,938
Now, do you want...
1043
01:08:28,414 --> 01:08:33,712
Gotcha, wow, boy, this is tough
this is tougher than NFL gay, this is tough
1044
01:08:34,061 --> 01:08:37,882
Good afternoon, everyone, my name
is Jack Burkman this is Jacob Wohl
1045
01:08:37,970 --> 01:08:41,272
There has developed, in the last week
as I'm sure all of you have noticed
1046
01:08:41,402 --> 01:08:43,706
a rather tragic and sad backstory
1047
01:08:43,836 --> 01:08:46,225
that somehow I or Jacob, or others
1048
01:08:46,355 --> 01:08:49,744
paid, or attempted to pay some
woman for coming forward
1049
01:08:49,962 --> 01:08:51,787
None of this is true
1050
01:08:51,917 --> 01:08:55,870
So, they come out with this affidavit
from this woman named Carolyne Cass
1051
01:08:56,000 --> 01:09:00,953
The report is put together by this
organization called Surefire Intelligence
1052
01:09:01,083 --> 01:09:04,037
And this goes online
before the press conference
1053
01:09:04,169 --> 01:09:06,515
And so that was where
a lot of people started digging
1054
01:09:07,036 --> 01:09:10,946
On its website, this looked like a pretty
legitimate organization at first
1055
01:09:11,076 --> 01:09:12,597
It says that they were former spies
1056
01:09:12,727 --> 01:09:14,900
and things like that, that work
at Surefire Intelligence
1057
01:09:15,419 --> 01:09:19,071
And their numbers, supposedly
different bureaus around the world
1058
01:09:19,201 --> 01:09:22,329
And so, if you reverse
search the number
1059
01:09:22,459 --> 01:09:26,543
it was registered
to Jacob Wohl's mother
1060
01:09:26,673 --> 01:09:28,367
We had a reporter here
who was on the phone with Jacob
1061
01:09:28,498 --> 01:09:30,757
and he said, "Are you sure
this isn't just a front for you?"
1062
01:09:30,887 --> 01:09:32,756
"You're not... Surefire Intelligence
is a real thing?"
1063
01:09:32,886 --> 01:09:35,102
And he's like, "Oh yeah, yeah
don't worry about it, don't worry about it"
1064
01:09:35,230 --> 01:09:39,532
Well, as it turned out, pictures
on Surefire Intelligence of their employees
1065
01:09:39,663 --> 01:09:42,357
were people like Christoph Waltz
a Hollywood actor
1066
01:09:42,530 --> 01:09:45,529
Some models
the head of Surefire Intelligence
1067
01:09:45,657 --> 01:09:48,873
he was a kind of shady... looking guy
on his LinkedIn page, it was really dim
1068
01:09:49,004 --> 01:09:52,132
But someone just brightened it in Photoshop
and it was just a picture of Jacob
1069
01:09:52,437 --> 01:09:56,520
So as people kept realizing
how fraudulent Surefire Intelligence was
1070
01:09:56,650 --> 01:09:58,605
that was the setup
for the press conference
1071
01:09:58,736 --> 01:10:01,169
Jacob and his firm went through
1072
01:10:01,298 --> 01:10:05,774
the most intense vetting of any
woman in one of these situations...
1073
01:10:05,904 --> 01:10:08,946
and I've represented other women
in these situations as you know...
1074
01:10:09,076 --> 01:10:10,683
that I have ever seen
1075
01:10:10,813 --> 01:10:15,811
And we determined that the accusation
was credible, or we wouldn't be here today
1076
01:10:16,027 --> 01:10:18,851
First of all, I want to stress, no one
is questioning Ms. Cass's account here
1077
01:10:18,982 --> 01:10:21,109
We didn't know her name
until 20 minutes ago, okay?
1078
01:10:21,196 --> 01:10:23,934
We're questioning you two
both very uncredible people
1079
01:10:24,108 --> 01:10:25,933
- And here's what I want to know...
- Now why do you say we're uncredible?
1080
01:10:26,064 --> 01:10:27,452
You know, you had
all the Seth Rich stuff - whatever
1081
01:10:27,584 --> 01:10:31,755
My... My question's for Jacob: Why were
you shady about Surefire Intelligence?
1082
01:10:31,885 --> 01:10:35,534
You told one of our... our reporters
you didn't run it, there was this alias
1083
01:10:35,665 --> 01:10:38,141
there's all these made-up people
what's going on there?
1084
01:10:38,271 --> 01:10:40,401
The... The investigation
at that point, was still in flux
1085
01:10:40,531 --> 01:10:44,614
and it was important that I preserve
my anonymity as I moved through it
1086
01:10:44,744 --> 01:10:46,133
But if you want your anonymity
1087
01:10:46,221 --> 01:10:47,916
then why are you doing
this press conference now?
1088
01:10:48,047 --> 01:10:50,176
Like, you could have just gone
to the New York Police Department, right?
1089
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:51,870
Or Ms. Cass could have gone...?
1090
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:53,694
Well, a lot of that is up
a lot of that is up to Carolyne
1091
01:10:53,824 --> 01:10:56,084
At the time, she made a decision
for whatever reason
1092
01:10:56,214 --> 01:10:59,472
we didn't know her at the time
to not... to not report it to police
1093
01:10:59,604 --> 01:11:02,470
But is she reporting it to police now?
Like, are you going to the cops...?
1094
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:04,469
Yes, we're... we're in the process
of doing that now
1095
01:11:04,599 --> 01:11:05,945
Let me say something about
1096
01:11:06,076 --> 01:11:07,467
When do you expect
that to be wrapped up for...
1097
01:11:07,597 --> 01:11:08,988
This is ongoing, this is ongoing
1098
01:11:10,595 --> 01:11:12,724
Probably, I would think
by the end of this week
1099
01:11:12,854 --> 01:11:14,244
Yeah...
1100
01:11:14,331 --> 01:11:15,721
Or the end of next
week, next Friday
1101
01:11:15,852 --> 01:11:17,415
Filed that... To be clear, you filed
that with NYPD, correct?
1102
01:11:17,545 --> 01:11:18,936
We haven't...
we have not done it yet
1103
01:11:19,067 --> 01:11:21,630
This... A lot of those decisions are up
to my client, I'm just the lawyer
1104
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:24,410
We... We are still in the process
of gathering evidence...
1105
01:11:25,974 --> 01:11:28,712
The idea was that Carolyne Cass
had met Robert Mueller
1106
01:11:28,842 --> 01:11:32,317
when she was at a hotel bar
in New York a couple years ago
1107
01:11:32,447 --> 01:11:36,836
And she claimed that Mueller basically
made her go up to his room
1108
01:11:36,966 --> 01:11:38,660
and sexually assaulted her, raped her
1109
01:11:38,791 --> 01:11:41,137
Now, there were a couple
holes in this story
1110
01:11:41,268 --> 01:11:43,873
Probably the biggest being
that there's a newspaper article
1111
01:11:44,005 --> 01:11:46,263
about Robert Mueller
being in DC that day
1112
01:11:46,393 --> 01:11:48,001
because he was doing jury duty
1113
01:11:48,132 --> 01:11:51,520
There's an item
in the Washington Post from that day
1114
01:11:51,868 --> 01:11:56,038
that spots him, it's one of those
sightings around town columns
1115
01:11:56,169 --> 01:12:00,339
that shows someone saw him
at jury duty on that day
1116
01:12:00,470 --> 01:12:02,381
Are you suggesting
the Special Counsel
1117
01:12:02,511 --> 01:12:06,074
planted a story in the Washington
Post nine years ago...?
1118
01:12:06,205 --> 01:12:08,203
You have information in front
of you as to his whereabouts
1119
01:12:08,334 --> 01:12:10,202
Wait a second
was he only at jury duty?
1120
01:12:10,333 --> 01:12:12,938
Sometimes people go to jury duty
but they're also somewhere else
1121
01:12:14,373 --> 01:12:15,849
Was he only at jury duty?
1122
01:12:16,501 --> 01:12:18,500
No, it's set up...
It's... Hang on, it's not funny
1123
01:12:18,630 --> 01:12:20,063
This is not a laughing matter
1124
01:12:21,933 --> 01:12:24,582
He basically literally said, someone
can be in two places at once
1125
01:12:27,233 --> 01:12:30,056
It felt like you had left reality
1126
01:12:30,186 --> 01:12:32,924
and entered the right-wing media
universe, like a physical version of it
1127
01:12:33,054 --> 01:12:34,792
Maybe I had gone through a portal
1128
01:12:34,922 --> 01:12:40,701
when I walked into the hotel, and ended
up in this weird right-wing place
1129
01:12:40,829 --> 01:12:43,655
where Jack Burkman
and Jacob Wohl were holding court
1130
01:12:44,263 --> 01:12:47,565
Is the... Is the whole point
of this to discredit Bob Mueller
1131
01:12:47,695 --> 01:12:50,432
and... and if... and if that is the case
1132
01:12:50,563 --> 01:12:53,039
do you really think that would
shut down the Russian investigation?
1133
01:12:53,169 --> 01:12:55,514
That... No, the point of this
is not to discredit anyone
1134
01:12:55,646 --> 01:12:57,296
The point of this is to get to the truth
1135
01:12:59,513 --> 01:13:01,120
- It's spelled with an "e"
- It is spelled with an "e"?
1136
01:13:01,250 --> 01:13:03,596
- That's right, that's right
- Wait, this... Okay...
1137
01:13:03,727 --> 01:13:06,896
Hang on, you'll figure it out
okay, Ms. Cass is...
1138
01:13:07,681 --> 01:13:09,201
No, no, no, no
you don't get to say that
1139
01:13:09,331 --> 01:13:11,417
You brought us out here
tell us her name
1140
01:13:11,547 --> 01:13:13,937
- And all the identifying information
- Her name is right below, if I need to...
1141
01:13:14,067 --> 01:13:17,890
You know, we go to a lot of press
conferences, and they can be adversarial
1142
01:13:18,020 --> 01:13:21,800
You could have this back-and-forth
debate during these news conferences
1143
01:13:22,104 --> 01:13:26,275
but you know you're dealing
with genuine people on the other side
1144
01:13:26,405 --> 01:13:29,837
and you're just not confronted
with this blatant bullshit conspiracy
1145
01:13:29,967 --> 01:13:32,313
And you ask yourself, "I'm a reporter
I've been doing this for 20 years"
1146
01:13:32,487 --> 01:13:34,791
"Why am I... Why am I sitting here?"
1147
01:13:34,921 --> 01:13:40,350
You know, my mission here is not to establish
a narrative, it's not to follow an agenda...
1148
01:13:40,482 --> 01:13:43,391
Wait a minute... you just established
a narrative, and you put it in front of us
1149
01:13:43,478 --> 01:13:45,087
It's... It's... Hang on
hang on, excuse me
1150
01:13:45,217 --> 01:13:47,520
It's to bring forth the facts
and let the facts speak for themselves
1151
01:13:47,606 --> 01:13:50,083
- And that's what we've done
- One last question, this is important...
1152
01:13:50,387 --> 01:13:52,212
Let me just take it... no, hold on
1153
01:13:52,342 --> 01:13:53,733
I want to... I want... We're gonna
respond with more...
1154
01:13:53,819 --> 01:13:57,425
Where... Where was Mueller's security detail
on the day he was hitting on this woman?
1155
01:13:57,556 --> 01:14:00,161
Guys, you know what? We're gonna wrap it
thank you thank you all
1156
01:14:00,293 --> 01:14:01,683
We'll see you guys on the way out
1157
01:14:02,290 --> 01:14:04,724
We've done enough, guys
I think that's enough for today
1158
01:14:05,245 --> 01:14:07,852
We have another... We have another
conference coming soon
1159
01:14:08,287 --> 01:14:09,633
- When?
- With Carolyne
1160
01:14:09,763 --> 01:14:11,154
As soon as we get her schedule...
1161
01:14:11,285 --> 01:14:12,631
You always say
there's another press conference
1162
01:14:12,761 --> 01:14:14,152
where you're really gonna give us the...
1163
01:14:14,282 --> 01:14:15,672
What's going on with the Seth Rich
conspiracy, by the way?
1164
01:14:15,759 --> 01:14:17,975
- It worked out well, because I...
- Where's your witness for that?
1165
01:14:18,105 --> 01:14:20,016
You said you were going to bring a witness
last time, and you didn't bring...?
1166
01:14:20,147 --> 01:14:22,320
We're... We're only here to discuss
Carolyne today, not other matters...
1167
01:14:22,450 --> 01:14:23,971
I want to discuss your credibility
1168
01:14:24,057 --> 01:14:26,446
You don't have much credibility
because... Your credibility
1169
01:14:26,577 --> 01:14:27,968
Oh, my credibility?
1170
01:14:28,098 --> 01:14:29,444
You bring... You said you
were going to bring witnesses...?
1171
01:14:29,575 --> 01:14:31,139
Come on out, guys
we've got some civilians...
1172
01:14:31,313 --> 01:14:33,702
Why can't you show us a document
showing that you're representing her?
1173
01:14:34,614 --> 01:14:36,568
How do we... How are we supposed to
know that you're representing this person?
1174
01:14:36,655 --> 01:14:38,351
We have no evidence
1175
01:14:39,350 --> 01:14:40,870
Well, we do
1176
01:14:43,521 --> 01:14:46,996
So it seems like he had the person first
then he came to you, or what happened?
1177
01:14:47,126 --> 01:14:50,210
Uh... It's... We'll just say it's synergistic
1178
01:14:50,342 --> 01:14:52,905
We'll say... We'll leave it at synergistic
1179
01:14:53,035 --> 01:14:54,469
The whole thing was a circus
1180
01:14:54,599 --> 01:14:56,554
The only serious thing
was what they were trying to do
1181
01:14:56,685 --> 01:15:00,942
which is slime Robert Mueller with one
of the worst things they can accuse him of
1182
01:15:01,073 --> 01:15:03,593
He got people talking
about Robert Mueller
1183
01:15:03,679 --> 01:15:06,373
and a sexual assault allegation
in the same sentence
1184
01:15:06,504 --> 01:15:09,197
And they meant to tarnish
Bob Mueller's reputation
1185
01:15:09,327 --> 01:15:12,411
to undermine his investigation
into the President
1186
01:15:12,543 --> 01:15:16,496
What Burkman and Wohl were doing
was not only knowingly dishonest
1187
01:15:16,626 --> 01:15:20,189
and they know that
it was corrosive, and destructive
1188
01:15:20,319 --> 01:15:23,273
This was about throwing shit on the wall
1189
01:15:23,405 --> 01:15:26,533
That's all they were attempting to do
to throw shit on the wall
1190
01:15:26,618 --> 01:15:28,530
and get somebody to write about it
1191
01:15:28,661 --> 01:15:32,266
They would have been very satisfied if the
Time had just written, "This is nonsense"
1192
01:15:32,397 --> 01:15:35,264
because they would Google Jacob, and
he might have come up on the top search
1193
01:15:35,394 --> 01:15:38,610
and... I mean, he doesn't care what
context his name is used in, does he?
1194
01:15:39,001 --> 01:15:40,347
It doesn't seem like it
1195
01:15:41,911 --> 01:15:44,604
Are we trending?
That's the real question, are we trending?
1196
01:15:45,083 --> 01:15:46,560
I'm sure we're trending
1197
01:15:47,516 --> 01:15:49,731
I mean, I really was offended
by the whole thing
1198
01:15:49,948 --> 01:15:53,208
You know, I can come back to the Times
and the Times trusts my judgment
1199
01:15:53,338 --> 01:15:55,988
and I said, "I'm not writing about this"
I'm gonna do my due diligence
1200
01:15:56,118 --> 01:15:59,637
I'm going to go try to find this woman
to see if there's any there, there
1201
01:15:59,811 --> 01:16:02,592
It's the same standard we would
treat Kavanaugh's accuser
1202
01:16:03,070 --> 01:16:05,893
We need to find the victim, talk
to the victim, interview the victim
1203
01:16:06,023 --> 01:16:08,456
and then determine if this is actually real
1204
01:16:08,630 --> 01:16:10,933
Uh... But I'm not writing
about this news conference
1205
01:16:15,017 --> 01:16:19,362
Mainstream media needs to understand
1206
01:16:19,492 --> 01:16:22,272
that it is operating
in a propaganda-rich environment
1207
01:16:22,706 --> 01:16:24,879
There are no two realities
1208
01:16:25,008 --> 01:16:28,528
There is an intentional
deception on one side
1209
01:16:28,659 --> 01:16:31,656
and there is an honest, if imperfect process
1210
01:16:31,787 --> 01:16:35,088
of trying to get as near
the truth as we can on the other
1211
01:16:42,821 --> 01:16:44,864
Today in the red chair
again, in the same place
1212
01:16:44,994 --> 01:16:47,819
we talked two years ago
is Tristan Harris
1213
01:16:47,947 --> 01:16:50,773
the cofounder of the Center
for Humane Technology
1214
01:16:50,903 --> 01:16:54,161
We spent about a fourth of lives
now in artificial social systems
1215
01:16:54,248 --> 01:16:55,769
Meaning, in these digital environments
1216
01:16:55,900 --> 01:16:57,506
And that's just on screen
I mean, when you're offscreen
1217
01:16:57,637 --> 01:17:00,765
you're still thinking thoughts that came
from that artificial social environment
1218
01:17:00,895 --> 01:17:03,068
Conspiracy theories on these...
1219
01:17:03,198 --> 01:17:06,152
you know, magnified by these
platforms, times billions of people...
1220
01:17:06,283 --> 01:17:09,062
It has completely fragmented our truth
1221
01:17:09,193 --> 01:17:12,452
And more importantly the scale
of the disinformation and misinformation
1222
01:17:12,583 --> 01:17:14,233
people tend to underestimate
1223
01:17:14,363 --> 01:17:17,058
I don't think you've had Guillaume
Chaslot on the program...?
1224
01:17:17,143 --> 01:17:19,012
But he's the ex-YouTube
Recommendations engineer
1225
01:17:19,143 --> 01:17:21,097
he works with us
and his research showed
1226
01:17:21,313 --> 01:17:25,312
that... that Alex Jones
was recommended 15 billion times
1227
01:17:25,442 --> 01:17:27,267
- Right
- There's a cover-up going on
1228
01:17:27,788 --> 01:17:34,044
They are pulling videos
of this young man, a David Hogg
1229
01:17:34,217 --> 01:17:37,041
he's on the fake news
CNN, known for staging things
1230
01:17:37,172 --> 01:17:38,562
and he says over and over again
1231
01:17:38,693 --> 01:17:42,168
"I am not a crisis actor
I am not a crisis actor"
1232
01:17:42,298 --> 01:17:44,644
Right-wing conspiracy
theories going viral
1233
01:17:44,776 --> 01:17:48,859
about David Hogg, a 17-year-old
Parkland shooting survivor
1234
01:17:48,989 --> 01:17:52,378
The unsubstantiated claims
say he's a crisis actor
1235
01:17:52,509 --> 01:17:56,114
a trained actor who takes advantage
of tragedies for political gain
1236
01:17:56,288 --> 01:18:01,067
Tuesday, the conspiracy went viral on
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube
1237
01:18:01,371 --> 01:18:03,761
Were they crisis actors?
I mean, I don't know
1238
01:18:04,455 --> 01:18:06,715
I... I think the possibility exists
1239
01:18:06,845 --> 01:18:11,060
That picture of Emma Gonzalez tearing
what appeared to be a Constitution
1240
01:18:11,234 --> 01:18:13,492
Was it really a Constitution, was it...
1241
01:18:13,623 --> 01:18:16,056
What do I think about it?
I think it's pretty disgraceful
1242
01:18:16,187 --> 01:18:17,880
Why would you tear
up the Constitution?
1243
01:18:18,010 --> 01:18:21,356
Well, so, in fact that photograph
was faked, it was Photoshopped
1244
01:18:21,487 --> 01:18:22,833
- Okay...
- She... She wasn't holding up...
1245
01:18:22,963 --> 01:18:28,829
I gotcha, I gotcha... Knowing that that was
purposely Photoshopped, and faked...
1246
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:30,480
Yeah, that's more upsetting than the fact
1247
01:18:30,610 --> 01:18:33,999
that she was allegedly tearing
up the Constitution
1248
01:18:35,042 --> 01:18:39,256
Facebook, it's a city without signs
and police forces, and garbage
1249
01:18:39,387 --> 01:18:40,993
That's the city they built
1250
01:18:41,862 --> 01:18:47,075
What company wouldn't shut down
absolutely, provable, false information?
1251
01:18:47,944 --> 01:18:51,464
They create the platform
where it gets spread
1252
01:18:51,594 --> 01:18:54,679
and then are like
"Agh, what can we do?"
1253
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:58,633
They hide behind the First Amendment
and they are not the government
1254
01:18:59,284 --> 01:19:02,065
They can make choices
they just don't want to
1255
01:19:02,195 --> 01:19:04,498
To say "fake news" - in other words
I don't want your news
1256
01:19:04,584 --> 01:19:09,059
because it's fake, is antithetical
to the principles of the First Amendment
1257
01:19:09,234 --> 01:19:12,362
You can't say "Fire!" in a crowded
theater when there's no fire
1258
01:19:12,535 --> 01:19:14,534
that's what Justice Holmes said
1259
01:19:14,708 --> 01:19:16,706
because it could lead
to people being hurt
1260
01:19:16,836 --> 01:19:19,964
But if someone gets up
and preaches revolution
1261
01:19:20,095 --> 01:19:22,745
and there's no imminent likelihood
1262
01:19:22,875 --> 01:19:25,438
that there's going to be any
violence resulting from that
1263
01:19:25,568 --> 01:19:27,437
then that speech has to be tolerated
1264
01:19:27,523 --> 01:19:30,999
The First Amendment says
the government can't suppress speech
1265
01:19:31,130 --> 01:19:34,388
But there's no reason that platforms
or communities can't say
1266
01:19:34,519 --> 01:19:36,604
"This kind of commentary
is beyond the pale"
1267
01:19:36,778 --> 01:19:39,775
"and people who insist on saying
this are going to suffer a penalty"
1268
01:19:39,949 --> 01:19:42,773
They're not the federal government
they're... It's not a public square
1269
01:19:42,903 --> 01:19:45,204
These are private entities
they can do what they want
1270
01:19:45,292 --> 01:19:47,509
It's just more convenient to do nothing
1271
01:19:47,639 --> 01:19:49,463
It's more profitable to do nothing
1272
01:19:51,202 --> 01:19:54,764
I am worried about the future for others
1273
01:19:54,894 --> 01:20:00,586
Because what happened
to me can happen to anyone
1274
01:20:01,281 --> 01:20:03,627
A more vulnerable person
1275
01:20:03,757 --> 01:20:08,059
or institution like Comet, would
have been taken down right away
1276
01:20:08,145 --> 01:20:14,749
These online weapons that are directed
at different people and institutions
1277
01:20:14,923 --> 01:20:18,962
have lasting
consequences, and do destroy people
1278
01:20:20,743 --> 01:20:22,222
In the case of Pizzagate...
1279
01:20:22,352 --> 01:20:25,480
Now, to my mind, when Facebook finds
something like that
1280
01:20:25,611 --> 01:20:26,957
they should shut it down
1281
01:20:27,174 --> 01:20:29,564
Why did you build tools
that allow someone to do that
1282
01:20:29,738 --> 01:20:31,823
or allow it to iterate
and iterate and iterate?
1283
01:20:31,953 --> 01:20:35,950
What tools could you build where
that isn't iterated again and again?
1284
01:20:36,950 --> 01:20:39,774
White men, younger, run Silicon Valley
1285
01:20:40,251 --> 01:20:45,639
If you don't ever feel unsafe in your life
you do not understand lack of safety
1286
01:20:45,725 --> 01:20:47,203
You do not build that in
1287
01:20:47,681 --> 01:20:49,505
I had someone at Twitter talk to me
1288
01:20:49,635 --> 01:20:52,807
about they had gotten attacked online
the first time it happened
1289
01:20:52,938 --> 01:20:54,806
And they were like
"Oh, that was pretty bad"
1290
01:20:54,936 --> 01:20:57,195
And I'm like
"Welcome to the world of women"
1291
01:20:57,369 --> 01:20:58,846
"Welcome to the world of people of color"
1292
01:20:58,977 --> 01:21:02,017
"Welcome to the world
of marginalized people"
1293
01:21:02,148 --> 01:21:03,755
This is what it's like every day
1294
01:21:04,407 --> 01:21:07,969
Like, if you could think of a really awful
thing that could happen with your product
1295
01:21:08,100 --> 01:21:11,359
you need to figure out ways
that it doesn't have as much damage
1296
01:21:11,532 --> 01:21:13,444
They have not spent
enough time doing that
1297
01:21:15,790 --> 01:21:17,223
Oliver Darcy, from CNN
1298
01:21:17,353 --> 01:21:20,090
Infowars is pretty... I mean, I don't
know if you've been to the page
1299
01:21:20,221 --> 01:21:22,306
but they pretty much
make stuff up to get clicks
1300
01:21:22,436 --> 01:21:24,132
and generate revenue
and scare people
1301
01:21:24,260 --> 01:21:26,737
And I... I can't understand
how Facebook can say
1302
01:21:26,869 --> 01:21:29,561
We're serious about fighting
fake news and false information
1303
01:21:29,692 --> 01:21:33,037
but allowing Infowars and Alex Jones
to profit off of your platform
1304
01:21:33,168 --> 01:21:34,862
by using it to generate a lot of clicks
1305
01:21:36,773 --> 01:21:40,424
That was an ongoing debate
that was happening about Alex Jones
1306
01:21:40,597 --> 01:21:44,290
When I did the podcast with Mark
we were starting to talk about Alex Jones
1307
01:21:44,898 --> 01:21:48,114
The principles that we have on what
we remove from the service are
1308
01:21:48,373 --> 01:21:51,806
if it's going to result in real harm
real physical harm
1309
01:21:51,936 --> 01:21:56,325
or if you're attacking individuals then
that content shouldn't be on the platform
1310
01:21:56,671 --> 01:22:00,147
But then there's broad debate, and...
1311
01:22:00,278 --> 01:22:05,448
Okay, 'Sandy Hook didn't happen'
is not a debate, it is false
1312
01:22:05,752 --> 01:22:07,794
You can't just take that down?
1313
01:22:07,925 --> 01:22:09,706
I... I agree that it is false
1314
01:22:09,836 --> 01:22:12,616
But overall, you know, I mean let's...
let's take this a little closer to home
1315
01:22:12,747 --> 01:22:14,267
Right, so I'm Jewish
1316
01:22:14,354 --> 01:22:17,699
And there's a set of people who deny
that the Holocaust happened
1317
01:22:17,829 --> 01:22:19,220
- Right?
- Yes, there's a lot
1318
01:22:19,351 --> 01:22:20,697
I find that deeply offensive
1319
01:22:20,827 --> 01:22:25,520
But I... I don't believe that
our platform should take that down
1320
01:22:25,650 --> 01:22:29,082
because I think that there are things
that different people get wrong
1321
01:22:29,517 --> 01:22:30,908
Either...
1322
01:22:30,993 --> 01:22:33,209
I don't think that they're intentionally
getting it wrong but I think that they...
1323
01:22:33,339 --> 01:22:35,686
In the case of the Holocaust deniers
they might be, but go ahead
1324
01:22:36,467 --> 01:22:38,727
Holocaust deniers don't mean to lie
1325
01:22:38,988 --> 01:22:41,638
And I was like, "But they do"
1326
01:22:41,942 --> 01:22:43,984
So that... that... that, to me
was sort of like
1327
01:22:44,114 --> 01:22:46,720
"Oh, you're not even sophisticated enough
to understand that they mean to lie"
1328
01:22:46,851 --> 01:22:48,241
"That's the whole point"
1329
01:22:48,459 --> 01:22:51,327
If someone who is running
the biggest communication system
1330
01:22:51,457 --> 01:22:54,541
in the history of the world
someone who cannot be fired
1331
01:22:54,672 --> 01:22:57,930
someone who has complete
control over that system
1332
01:22:58,060 --> 01:23:02,101
does not understand
what he just said, it's really...
1333
01:23:02,231 --> 01:23:05,446
It really struck me as... It was a big
"Uh-oh" moment for me
1334
01:23:05,576 --> 01:23:07,486
The implication
that they aren't malevolent...
1335
01:23:07,705 --> 01:23:09,226
He knows they're malevolent
1336
01:23:09,356 --> 01:23:13,266
Come on, you can take them off
like, it's okay
1337
01:23:13,396 --> 01:23:17,090
He's going to get flak for it
but he gets paid the big bucks, right?
1338
01:23:18,219 --> 01:23:21,000
Alex Jones
he is the founder of Infowars
1339
01:23:21,086 --> 01:23:26,516
and he is now feeling the heat himself
YouTube, Facebook and Apple
1340
01:23:26,647 --> 01:23:31,166
all announcing they're removing
his content from their platforms
1341
01:23:31,296 --> 01:23:33,207
What changed in that summer?
1342
01:23:33,555 --> 01:23:35,944
Apple did it, when Apple was like
1343
01:23:36,075 --> 01:23:39,159
"Eh..." You know
"Enough, Basta, that's done"
1344
01:23:39,290 --> 01:23:40,680
Everybody else then goes
1345
01:23:40,811 --> 01:23:44,199
"Oh no, now if they do it, I guess
it gives us cover to do it"
1346
01:23:44,330 --> 01:23:47,501
Apple, last night
removed the entire library
1347
01:23:47,632 --> 01:23:50,281
of Alex Jones's podcast from their store
1348
01:23:50,412 --> 01:23:53,019
And then we saw...
we've seen throughout the day actually
1349
01:23:53,149 --> 01:23:56,712
tech platforms just basically
remove Alex Jones from their websites
1350
01:23:57,233 --> 01:23:59,752
He had been banned by most
platforms, except for Twitter
1351
01:23:59,883 --> 01:24:03,272
And so he's now on Capitol Hill
yelling about censorship
1352
01:24:03,403 --> 01:24:05,835
and conservatives under fire
and oppression
1353
01:24:05,922 --> 01:24:07,790
and all of this Alex Jones stuff
1354
01:24:07,921 --> 01:24:10,440
And so, I was going
to cover Jack Dorsey
1355
01:24:10,571 --> 01:24:14,611
the Twitter CEO, testifying
in front of the House Committee
1356
01:24:14,742 --> 01:24:18,173
And I'm standing in line
waiting to be led into this room
1357
01:24:18,305 --> 01:24:20,520
and out comes Alex Jones
1358
01:24:22,214 --> 01:24:23,603
Look at this, right here
1359
01:24:23,690 --> 01:24:26,646
The guy that goes around policing
and calling for censorship
1360
01:24:26,732 --> 01:24:28,558
and then claims that Trump's wrong
1361
01:24:28,688 --> 01:24:30,817
there's no censorship
of conservatives or patriots
1362
01:24:30,903 --> 01:24:33,858
- You are incredibly shameful
- How are you doing, Alex?
1363
01:24:33,988 --> 01:24:35,422
You're just a... Look at you...
Look... Look at him
1364
01:24:35,552 --> 01:24:39,983
You are literally an anti-American
anti-free speech coward
1365
01:24:40,114 --> 01:24:43,025
You're going to go down in the history
books at the Criminal News Network
1366
01:24:43,198 --> 01:24:44,806
This is the... one of the main...
1367
01:24:44,936 --> 01:24:46,500
This is one of the main
people right here
1368
01:24:47,108 --> 01:24:50,236
He comes over
and starts berating me
1369
01:24:50,367 --> 01:24:51,755
He sticks multiple cameras in my face
1370
01:24:51,843 --> 01:24:54,451
with a crowd that gathers
of his right-wing supporters
1371
01:24:54,842 --> 01:24:57,318
Come on over here, Drew
I... I want to get this guy on tape
1372
01:24:58,708 --> 01:25:01,011
This is unbelievable
I was literally saying
1373
01:25:01,141 --> 01:25:04,096
I don't see the Criminal
News Network here
1374
01:25:04,226 --> 01:25:06,963
But indeed we do, right there
at the front of the line of the trough
1375
01:25:07,137 --> 01:25:11,525
And for about 10 to 15 minutes
he is just yelling in my face
1376
01:25:11,611 --> 01:25:16,434
I mean, look at those eyes, folks
if you want to see the eyes of a rat...
1377
01:25:17,476 --> 01:25:21,343
Alex Jones has chosen
to latch onto Oliver as a hate figure
1378
01:25:21,691 --> 01:25:23,385
They'll pick people... and frankly
I don't think it's an accident
1379
01:25:23,516 --> 01:25:25,948
that it's often a woman, or a person of color
1380
01:25:26,122 --> 01:25:28,034
Just look at this guy's eyes, man
1381
01:25:28,165 --> 01:25:30,033
That is who will rule your life
1382
01:25:30,163 --> 01:25:32,682
Look, I mean
he's even more evil-looking...
1383
01:25:32,812 --> 01:25:34,593
Something to think about
the decisions that you made...
1384
01:25:34,725 --> 01:25:36,375
The next day, Twitter bans him
1385
01:25:36,507 --> 01:25:38,721
And what their reasoning was
to my understanding
1386
01:25:38,852 --> 01:25:42,154
is because he livestreamed
him berating me
1387
01:25:42,284 --> 01:25:44,370
He used a Twitter service
to do that, Periscope
1388
01:25:44,544 --> 01:25:47,018
It violated Twitter's rules
against targeted harassment
1389
01:25:47,106 --> 01:25:48,975
And so, that was his last strike
1390
01:25:49,627 --> 01:25:51,538
That whole thing was sort of ironic
1391
01:25:51,668 --> 01:25:54,796
Yelling and complaining
about losing his platform ended up
1392
01:25:54,927 --> 01:25:57,881
leading to him losing his
last remaining platform, being Twitter
1393
01:25:59,489 --> 01:26:02,226
You're the classic, hateful
vicious leftists
1394
01:26:02,356 --> 01:26:05,223
is what's been going on the attack
people, shame on you!
1395
01:26:05,354 --> 01:26:08,177
You were telling lies, bro
you don't know nothing
1396
01:26:08,308 --> 01:26:12,609
You're disgusting! You're unbelievable
anti-free speech as well
1397
01:26:12,913 --> 01:26:14,824
You know nothing, nothing
1398
01:26:24,947 --> 01:26:28,857
He's a public figure
in his job, in a public space
1399
01:26:28,987 --> 01:26:31,465
who's lied about me, and actively
1400
01:26:31,638 --> 01:26:35,548
full-time lobbied to have me removed
off platforms, and bragged about it
1401
01:26:35,722 --> 01:26:40,240
And so I see a modern book-burner
who also misrepresents what I've said
1402
01:26:40,545 --> 01:26:43,933
and I tell him that I think
he's the embodiment of evil
1403
01:26:44,064 --> 01:26:49,971
a big corporation working behind the
scenes, and publicly, to silence people
1404
01:26:50,103 --> 01:26:51,884
He is a book-burning monster
1405
01:26:54,274 --> 01:26:56,706
When I first visited Alex Jones
1406
01:26:56,837 --> 01:26:59,487
he told me that there
were snipers on the roof
1407
01:26:59,617 --> 01:27:01,876
which he then called me
the next day to clarify
1408
01:27:02,007 --> 01:27:05,743
he had made that up, and there actually
aren't any snipers on the roof
1409
01:27:06,612 --> 01:27:13,129
His offices are in a part of Austin
he doesn't want you to reveal or talk about
1410
01:27:14,649 --> 01:27:19,385
It's smoked windows, it's surveillance
video cameras everywhere
1411
01:27:20,210 --> 01:27:22,599
He has a kind of genius business model
1412
01:27:22,730 --> 01:27:24,903
He spews out these theories
1413
01:27:25,032 --> 01:27:29,812
and then at the beginning and end of every
program, he's selling you something
1414
01:27:29,986 --> 01:27:34,199
And what he sells feeds
that sense of paranoia
1415
01:27:34,331 --> 01:27:39,196
and feeling of being besieged that
a lot of his listeners and followers have
1416
01:27:39,413 --> 01:27:45,278
This is a guy who sells vitamin B
male virility products
1417
01:27:45,408 --> 01:27:51,882
and special kooky foods by spreading
these theories that damage people's lives
1418
01:27:52,056 --> 01:27:55,923
Sandy Hook, it's got
inside job written all over it
1419
01:27:56,096 --> 01:28:00,136
These are dead children, and he put out
all this false information about it
1420
01:28:00,267 --> 01:28:03,395
and kept saying, "It's free speech
free speech," no it's not
1421
01:28:03,526 --> 01:28:06,870
The Sandy Hook families
have been begging for years
1422
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:10,086
to have this or that piece of video removed
1423
01:28:10,216 --> 01:28:13,561
this or that Facebook post
this or that tweet
1424
01:28:13,691 --> 01:28:17,165
And oftentimes, they feel
like that fell on deaf ears
1425
01:28:17,862 --> 01:28:21,336
"Deplatformed" is such
a bloodless term, you know?
1426
01:28:21,424 --> 01:28:24,336
"I've been deplatformed"
what does that even mean?
1427
01:28:24,464 --> 01:28:26,508
And when you talk with the families
they'll say
1428
01:28:26,595 --> 01:28:28,159
"You know what that means to me?"
1429
01:28:28,289 --> 01:28:31,244
"For the first time, it means
I'm not afraid to open my mail"
1430
01:28:32,287 --> 01:28:35,415
You know, "That I'm going
to see a threat from someone"
1431
01:28:35,545 --> 01:28:39,281
"And that threat coming in my
mailbox means they know where I live"
1432
01:28:39,628 --> 01:28:44,755
Just like James Alefantis, just like
Seth Rich's family, they want to know...
1433
01:28:44,885 --> 01:28:48,970
Does the First Amendment actually
protect the types of claims
1434
01:28:49,100 --> 01:28:52,358
that have caused us such
damage, and such harm?
1435
01:28:52,532 --> 01:28:55,052
And you know
I had one of them say, you know
1436
01:28:55,182 --> 01:28:57,746
"This makes me feel like, in 30 years"
1437
01:28:57,831 --> 01:29:01,482
"truth will be what pops up first
when you search on Google"
1438
01:29:01,873 --> 01:29:04,913
You know, if you type
"Sandy Hook" into Google
1439
01:29:05,045 --> 01:29:06,868
and this content isn't taken down
1440
01:29:06,999 --> 01:29:09,910
and the purveyors
of this content aren't taken down
1441
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:12,386
that the first thing
you'll see is that it was a hoax
1442
01:29:12,734 --> 01:29:15,601
So then these people have
actually changed reality
1443
01:29:19,946 --> 01:29:24,117
The only way to fight this sort
of fake news is with the truth
1444
01:29:24,682 --> 01:29:26,897
I mean, I don't know
of any other way to do it
1445
01:29:27,026 --> 01:29:29,112
You certainly don't fight it with fake news
1446
01:29:29,242 --> 01:29:33,674
You don't win a... that battle
by um, playing their game
1447
01:29:35,367 --> 01:29:41,321
One of the most important
targets of propaganda...
1448
01:29:41,495 --> 01:29:44,493
and this is true of Russian
propaganda in Russia
1449
01:29:44,623 --> 01:29:47,447
it's true of propaganda
in the United States...
1450
01:29:47,621 --> 01:29:51,834
is to achieve this state of disorientation
1451
01:29:52,312 --> 01:29:55,875
this denial of the idea
that there is a truth of the matter
1452
01:29:56,005 --> 01:30:01,219
Challenging what is knowable
is a fundamental way of upending a system
1453
01:30:01,350 --> 01:30:03,218
and making it impossible to govern
1454
01:30:03,392 --> 01:30:08,040
It's also a way to ensure that you and I
can't ever come to compromise on anything
1455
01:30:14,774 --> 01:30:21,290
This community is really somewhere
that's based in truth, and reality
1456
01:30:22,204 --> 01:30:24,375
An online community is one thing
1457
01:30:24,505 --> 01:30:27,721
But a physical place where you're
playing ping-pong with someone
1458
01:30:27,851 --> 01:30:29,936
eating, breaking bread over the table
1459
01:30:30,067 --> 01:30:33,151
you're able to actually communicate
with the people around you
1460
01:30:33,281 --> 01:30:37,800
So if someone were to say, "Wow, this crazy
thing is happening, did you hear about it?"
1461
01:30:37,929 --> 01:30:41,753
Across the table, one might say
"Oh, that thing isn't really happening"
1462
01:30:41,971 --> 01:30:46,098
God is going to throw you into Hell!
1463
01:30:46,270 --> 01:30:49,834
It is hard, still, we've been
under continued threats
1464
01:30:49,964 --> 01:30:54,092
The daily messaging that I get now
about people wanting to kill me
1465
01:30:54,223 --> 01:30:58,089
or that I should be dead, is
you know, a hard thing to deal with
1466
01:30:58,219 --> 01:31:00,955
So that's just part of my life, now
1467
01:31:06,257 --> 01:31:12,643
But the community saved us
like, it's the community
1468
01:31:12,773 --> 01:31:16,162
They, like, saved the restaurant, basically
1469
01:31:16,292 --> 01:31:21,593
and also were like
"You need to open, on Monday"
1470
01:31:22,375 --> 01:31:26,589
And I was like...
"We're not opening on Monday"
1471
01:31:26,763 --> 01:31:28,109
"We're... We're never opening"
1472
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:30,455
Like, this... this restaurant
is not going to be open again
1473
01:31:30,629 --> 01:31:33,191
was my thought, feeling, and response
1474
01:31:34,409 --> 01:31:38,536
We called a meeting of the staff
and was like, "What do you want to do?"
1475
01:31:39,189 --> 01:31:43,924
And I said to them, you know
"I can take every precaution"
1476
01:31:44,054 --> 01:31:47,661
We would have armed
guards at the doors
1477
01:31:47,789 --> 01:31:50,136
Police surrounding the building
1478
01:31:50,266 --> 01:31:53,002
To open our pizza place, when we can
1479
01:31:53,829 --> 01:31:59,390
But I was like, "I don't want to really
open, because I am scared"
1480
01:32:00,433 --> 01:32:02,128
And... You know, in my head
1481
01:32:02,302 --> 01:32:04,691
But I'm like, "But what do you want to do?"
1482
01:32:04,821 --> 01:32:07,645
And these 20-something-year-old
staff was like
1483
01:32:08,036 --> 01:32:09,427
"We need to open"
1484
01:32:10,903 --> 01:32:15,639
Because Comet is not gonna
be defeated, or something
1485
01:32:15,770 --> 01:32:17,855
Or like, this community needs us
1486
01:32:17,985 --> 01:32:23,720
So we were able to open
because they... wanted to
1487
01:32:23,850 --> 01:32:28,846
And the support of this community
who also were calling the restaurant saying
1488
01:32:28,977 --> 01:32:30,975
"We want to come there right now"
1489
01:32:31,105 --> 01:32:34,841
Like, a gunman has come through
and literally they're calling being like
1490
01:32:34,972 --> 01:32:38,100
"When can we bring our kids
to have pizza? You can't close"
1491
01:32:59,258 --> 01:33:00,865
Like, it's a simple recipe
1492
01:33:00,996 --> 01:33:07,035
It's family, community and truth, like
that's what... That's why we're here
1493
01:34:08,552 --> 01:34:11,680
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