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1
00:00:02,435 --> 00:00:04,313
MICHAEL: James,
are we keeping the glasses on or off?
2
00:00:04,337 --> 00:00:08,317
CAMERAMAN: The only issue
is that because they're bifocals
3
00:00:08,341 --> 00:00:09,618
there's a line going
through his eyes.
4
00:00:09,642 --> 00:00:11,420
MICHAEL: Do you need them on,
Justice Thomas?
5
00:00:11,444 --> 00:00:13,122
No.
6
00:00:13,146 --> 00:00:14,690
I wear them, that's my normal...
7
00:00:14,714 --> 00:00:16,592
I normally have glasses on.
8
00:00:16,616 --> 00:00:19,528
Not on the cover of your book.
9
00:00:19,552 --> 00:00:22,131
CLARENCE: Well, except for the
cover of my book I normally wear...
10
00:00:22,155 --> 00:00:25,134
[laughs]
11
00:00:25,158 --> 00:00:28,104
MICHAEL: Justice Thomas,
how did you decide you wanted
12
00:00:28,128 --> 00:00:30,106
to become a lawyer?
13
00:00:30,130 --> 00:00:34,210
You look around society and you see,
its laws.
14
00:00:34,234 --> 00:00:36,779
Laws affect everybody.
15
00:00:36,803 --> 00:00:38,481
If you're poor,
and you look at people
16
00:00:38,505 --> 00:00:40,116
like my grandfather,
17
00:00:40,140 --> 00:00:43,209
I think of when he
came home one day,
18
00:00:44,477 --> 00:00:47,456
and he was very upset,
19
00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:49,291
and he was taking a drink.
20
00:00:49,315 --> 00:00:51,818
He never took a drink
in the middle of the day.
21
00:00:54,254 --> 00:00:59,235
CLARENCE: Well what had happened was,
he was driving the oil truck,
22
00:00:59,259 --> 00:01:01,437
a police officer stops him
23
00:01:01,461 --> 00:01:04,197
for having too many clothes on,
24
00:01:05,298 --> 00:01:07,300
and that's ridiculous.
25
00:01:09,302 --> 00:01:12,372
He has no way
of challenging that.
26
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,520
So the law, he ran into the law
27
00:01:17,544 --> 00:01:21,290
and he always
was afraid of that.
28
00:01:21,314 --> 00:01:24,126
You couldn't walk
across certain parks;
29
00:01:24,150 --> 00:01:26,262
you couldn't go
to certain schools;
30
00:01:26,286 --> 00:01:31,067
people's property being taken;
people taking advantage of him
31
00:01:31,091 --> 00:01:35,304
because they could say
"The law did this" or "Did that."
32
00:01:35,328 --> 00:01:37,706
So I decided I was
going to go to law school.
33
00:01:37,730 --> 00:01:44,513
Senator BIDEN: Judge Thomas,
do you solemnly swear to tell the truth,
34
00:01:44,537 --> 00:01:48,517
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
35
00:01:48,541 --> 00:01:49,652
Judge THOMAS: I do.
36
00:01:49,676 --> 00:01:52,312
Senator BIDEN: Please be seated.
37
00:02:12,332 --> 00:02:15,544
Let me look a little bit
from your life and history,
38
00:02:15,568 --> 00:02:20,549
you are somewhat an enigma.
39
00:02:20,573 --> 00:02:24,553
You have gone through
many changes in your life.
40
00:02:24,577 --> 00:02:26,722
Which brings us to the question:
41
00:02:26,746 --> 00:02:30,759
what is the real
Clarence Thomas like?
42
00:02:30,783 --> 00:02:33,496
Judge THOMAS: The person
you see is Clarence Thomas.
43
00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,299
I don't know that I would
call myself an enigma.
44
00:02:37,323 --> 00:02:44,164
I am just simply different from
what people painted me to be.
45
00:02:45,598 --> 00:02:50,312
My earliest memories are
those of Pin Point, Georgia,
46
00:02:50,336 --> 00:02:54,917
a life far removed in space
and time from this room,
47
00:02:54,941 --> 00:02:58,320
this day and this moment.
48
00:02:58,344 --> 00:03:03,893
♪ Moon river ♪
49
00:03:03,917 --> 00:03:08,831
♪ Wider than a mile ♪
50
00:03:08,855 --> 00:03:13,836
♪ I'm crossing you in style ♪
51
00:03:13,860 --> 00:03:16,930
♪ Someday ♪
52
00:03:18,798 --> 00:03:19,775
♪ Oh ♪
53
00:03:19,799 --> 00:03:21,310
CLARENCE: We were isolated.
54
00:03:21,334 --> 00:03:22,845
It was a community.
55
00:03:22,869 --> 00:03:25,881
You could see
the river from there.
56
00:03:25,905 --> 00:03:27,750
You hear of the song Moon River,
57
00:03:27,774 --> 00:03:31,187
Johnny Mercer's from Savannah.
58
00:03:31,211 --> 00:03:36,725
♪ Wherever you're goin', ♪
59
00:03:36,749 --> 00:03:39,662
♪ I'm goin' ♪
60
00:03:39,686 --> 00:03:42,865
CLARENCE: I am descended
from the west African slaves
61
00:03:42,889 --> 00:03:45,901
who lived on the Barrier
Islands and in the low country
62
00:03:45,925 --> 00:03:49,996
of Georgia, South Carolina
and coastal northern Florida.
63
00:03:53,299 --> 00:03:55,811
In Georgia my people
were called Geechees,
64
00:03:55,835 --> 00:03:58,438
in South Carolina, Gullahs.
65
00:04:00,707 --> 00:04:04,853
It was just a distinctive culture,
it was West African.
66
00:04:04,877 --> 00:04:07,923
It had a mixture of English,
and other words,
67
00:04:07,947 --> 00:04:10,559
with kind of a diction
that was somewhat
68
00:04:10,583 --> 00:04:12,394
difficult to understand.
69
00:04:12,418 --> 00:04:15,397
(Geechee music)
70
00:04:15,421 --> 00:04:23,421
(♪)
71
00:04:27,767 --> 00:04:29,612
I know when I first went
down to Pin Point I said
72
00:04:29,636 --> 00:04:35,684
"Clarence, I can't understand
a word that they just said"
73
00:04:35,708 --> 00:04:37,853
because they talk in a dialect.
74
00:04:37,877 --> 00:04:41,514
So I just try to
listen and smile.
75
00:04:46,619 --> 00:04:51,667
CLARENCE: I was born at home,
right on Shipyard Creek in 1948.
76
00:04:51,691 --> 00:04:56,839
My mother always I was too stubborn to cry,
and I guess
77
00:04:56,863 --> 00:05:02,544
that was a sort of indication of
the kind of person I would be.
78
00:05:02,568 --> 00:05:04,747
A middle child.
79
00:05:04,771 --> 00:05:09,018
My mother had all of us,
we think, before she was 20.
80
00:05:09,042 --> 00:05:14,790
And then she and my father
separated when I was a toddler.
81
00:05:14,814 --> 00:05:17,660
So I would have no
early memories of him.
82
00:05:17,684 --> 00:05:21,997
I have memories of other family members,
but he wasn't there.
83
00:05:22,021 --> 00:05:24,524
He wasn't among
the family members.
84
00:05:26,893 --> 00:05:34,893
[♪]
85
00:05:38,471 --> 00:05:40,582
CLARENCE: Many of
the men raked oysters
86
00:05:40,606 --> 00:05:43,052
during the winter,
and caught crabs,
87
00:05:43,076 --> 00:05:46,689
and fish in the
spring and summer.
88
00:05:46,713 --> 00:05:49,491
Their boats,
which were called bateaus,
89
00:05:49,515 --> 00:05:52,928
could be heard far
away in the marshes.
90
00:05:52,952 --> 00:05:55,497
They would slowly
emerge from the labyrinths
91
00:05:55,521 --> 00:05:59,401
of surrounding creeks
and pull up to the dock
92
00:05:59,425 --> 00:06:01,928
where the day's
haul was unloaded.
93
00:06:07,066 --> 00:06:11,413
The women picked crab; people
like my mother, and my relatives
94
00:06:11,437 --> 00:06:14,416
did that at the crab factory.
95
00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,888
And they also shucked
oysters... All of which is hard work.
96
00:06:19,912 --> 00:06:23,082
Well, when they were gone,
we were on our own.
97
00:06:29,455 --> 00:06:32,368
We were off on our adventures.
98
00:06:32,392 --> 00:06:39,808
[♪]
99
00:06:39,832 --> 00:06:42,644
We would catch
minnows in the creek.
100
00:06:42,668 --> 00:06:45,080
We would walk along
the water's edge,
101
00:06:45,104 --> 00:06:47,173
throwing oyster shells.
102
00:06:50,510 --> 00:06:53,655
Most people didn't
have store-bought toys.
103
00:06:53,679 --> 00:06:56,783
So, you had lots of old
tires that had gone bad.
104
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,500
If you go back to the movie,
To Kill a Mockingbird...
105
00:07:04,524 --> 00:07:05,601
JEM FINCH: You Ready?
106
00:07:05,625 --> 00:07:06,735
SCOUT FINCH: Uh-huh, let her go.
107
00:07:06,759 --> 00:07:08,704
CLARENCE: Scout, the young girl,
108
00:07:08,728 --> 00:07:14,200
when she is pushed into Boo Radley's yard,
she's in a tire.
109
00:07:17,570 --> 00:07:21,150
I have no idea how kids
today can have any idea
110
00:07:21,174 --> 00:07:24,753
what they were doing
with her inside a tire.
111
00:07:24,777 --> 00:07:26,655
We always did that.
112
00:07:26,679 --> 00:07:31,193
I remember years later reading Huck Finn,
and Tom Sawyer,
113
00:07:31,217 --> 00:07:32,961
and wondering what
the fuss was about.
114
00:07:32,985 --> 00:07:34,921
We had done a
lot of those things.
115
00:07:38,057 --> 00:07:42,128
One day I came home someone
said there had been a fire.
116
00:07:45,064 --> 00:07:47,576
And we get there,
and this little shack that we had
117
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,903
all been living in was
just ashes and twisted tin.
118
00:07:54,740 --> 00:07:59,955
Everything that you ever
knew in life is just there,
119
00:07:59,979 --> 00:08:01,657
I mean it's smoldering.
120
00:08:01,681 --> 00:08:09,681
[♪]
121
00:08:23,135 --> 00:08:28,917
CLARENCE: When I was
a boy Savannah was hell.
122
00:08:28,941 --> 00:08:33,555
My mother lived in one
room in an old tenement
123
00:08:33,579 --> 00:08:36,792
with an outdoor bathroom.
124
00:08:36,816 --> 00:08:41,864
That is the worst
place I've ever lived.
125
00:08:41,888 --> 00:08:46,168
And so,
you had the contrast between rural poverty,
126
00:08:46,192 --> 00:08:51,264
which is what we had in Pin Point,
which was very livable.
127
00:08:53,866 --> 00:08:58,971
And then you had urban squalor,
and that was horrible.
128
00:09:02,041 --> 00:09:05,153
Whenever you flushed the toilet,
or someone else flushed,
129
00:09:05,177 --> 00:09:08,924
it didn't actually go
in the sewer system.
130
00:09:08,948 --> 00:09:14,062
It went in somebody else's yard.
131
00:09:14,086 --> 00:09:17,099
My all encompassing
word is gross,
132
00:09:17,123 --> 00:09:18,834
I mean it was putrid.
133
00:09:18,858 --> 00:09:21,570
It was the smell of raw sewage.
134
00:09:21,594 --> 00:09:23,672
There were these boards,
people would make these sort of
135
00:09:23,696 --> 00:09:27,209
makeshift paths to
get across the just,
136
00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:31,137
the gross wetness
in the back yard.
137
00:09:36,042 --> 00:09:39,121
Savannah is still
a segregated city.
138
00:09:39,145 --> 00:09:47,145
[♪]
139
00:09:53,993 --> 00:09:59,641
One of the major parks downtown
is a rectangle, Forsyth Park.
140
00:09:59,665 --> 00:10:05,881
You were never allowed to
walk to the interior of that park.
141
00:10:05,905 --> 00:10:10,052
That's how I figured out
the word "circumnavigate."
142
00:10:10,076 --> 00:10:11,653
You would walk around.
143
00:10:11,677 --> 00:10:14,747
You could not go
across the park.
144
00:10:15,681 --> 00:10:21,964
[♪]
145
00:10:21,988 --> 00:10:24,833
I was supposed to go to
school in the afternoons
146
00:10:24,857 --> 00:10:27,269
and my mother wasn't
there to make me go,
147
00:10:27,293 --> 00:10:29,838
because she had to go to work,
so I wandered
148
00:10:29,862 --> 00:10:31,039
the streets by myself.
149
00:10:31,063 --> 00:10:32,975
I was six.
150
00:10:32,999 --> 00:10:39,982
[♪]
151
00:10:40,006 --> 00:10:43,151
You were hungry,
and didn't know when you'd eat, and cold,
152
00:10:43,175 --> 00:10:45,244
and didn't know when
you'd be warm again.
153
00:10:47,413 --> 00:10:51,093
My mother had difficulty
with two little boys
154
00:10:51,117 --> 00:10:53,261
and working as a maid.
155
00:10:53,285 --> 00:10:57,299
So she asked my
grandparents for help.
156
00:10:57,323 --> 00:11:03,005
And my grandmother
suggested that she let...
157
00:11:03,029 --> 00:11:06,174
Her raise these two boys.
158
00:11:06,198 --> 00:11:09,311
And one day,
one Saturday morning we w..., we woke up,
159
00:11:09,335 --> 00:11:13,081
and my mother said "Put all
your things in the grocery bag."
160
00:11:13,105 --> 00:11:16,251
And remember the paper
grocery bags in those days,
161
00:11:16,275 --> 00:11:19,755
and my brother took one,
and neither one was full.
162
00:11:19,779 --> 00:11:22,257
But we, all of our items,
just imagine everything you have
163
00:11:22,281 --> 00:11:24,717
in less than a paper bag.
164
00:11:27,853 --> 00:11:29,898
So,
we took our grocery bag each,
165
00:11:29,922 --> 00:11:33,902
and walked the couple
of blocks from Henry Lane,
166
00:11:33,926 --> 00:11:35,837
to East Thirty-Second Street.
167
00:11:35,861 --> 00:11:42,101
[♪]
168
00:11:45,938 --> 00:11:50,185
That was the longest,
and most significant journey
169
00:11:50,209 --> 00:11:54,189
I ever made,
because it changed my entire life.
170
00:11:54,213 --> 00:12:02,213
[♪]
171
00:12:04,223 --> 00:12:07,903
My grandfather was this myth.
172
00:12:07,927 --> 00:12:11,306
He was very stern.
173
00:12:11,330 --> 00:12:14,209
And he sat us there
at the kitchen table,
174
00:12:14,233 --> 00:12:18,847
and he said "Boys,
the damn vacation is over."
175
00:12:18,871 --> 00:12:20,782
And he said from then
on it was going to be
176
00:12:20,806 --> 00:12:24,419
"Rules and regulations"
and "Manners and behavior."
177
00:12:24,443 --> 00:12:27,889
Oh my goodness, and he meant it,
and he just explained what
178
00:12:27,913 --> 00:12:32,160
the rules were: my
grandmother was always right,
179
00:12:32,184 --> 00:12:37,132
that he was in charge.
180
00:12:37,156 --> 00:12:40,502
He made it very clear that it
was by grace that we were there
181
00:12:40,526 --> 00:12:43,371
- his grace.
182
00:12:43,395 --> 00:12:49,077
And the door in 1955 when
we went to live with him
183
00:12:49,101 --> 00:12:56,318
was swinging open, inward,
and if we didn't behave ourselves
184
00:12:56,342 --> 00:12:58,320
there'd be a day when
it would swing outward
185
00:12:58,344 --> 00:13:01,180
and we'd be asked to leave.
186
00:13:03,149 --> 00:13:07,362
They lived in this new house,
and it was beautiful.
187
00:13:07,386 --> 00:13:11,433
For us,
it could have been a palace.
188
00:13:11,457 --> 00:13:15,303
We had never been in
a house with a bathtub,
189
00:13:15,327 --> 00:13:18,440
beautiful white
porcelain toilet.
190
00:13:18,464 --> 00:13:21,777
My brother and I,
one of our activities was to flush
191
00:13:21,801 --> 00:13:25,280
that toilet every time
we had a chance.
192
00:13:25,304 --> 00:13:27,849
I mean we would walk
by and flush the toilet.
193
00:13:27,873 --> 00:13:35,123
And my grandfather said,
he would chastise us and said you,
194
00:13:35,147 --> 00:13:39,327
as he would say "You're
runnin' up my damn water bill."
195
00:13:39,351 --> 00:13:42,998
Beautiful, as we used to say back then,
modern kitchen
196
00:13:43,022 --> 00:13:49,437
with a refrigerator,
etc. And lots of food.
197
00:13:49,461 --> 00:13:53,532
And my grandmother would
just lavish you with those things.
198
00:13:57,169 --> 00:14:00,115
My grandmother was
as sweet as she could be
199
00:14:00,139 --> 00:14:02,274
she would always be saintly.
200
00:14:05,277 --> 00:14:08,123
By the time we went to
live with my grandfather
201
00:14:08,147 --> 00:14:10,492
he was delivering fuel oil.
202
00:14:10,516 --> 00:14:14,462
The rule was: we got
out of school at 2:30;
203
00:14:14,486 --> 00:14:17,499
you had to be home,
dressed, and ready to be
204
00:14:17,523 --> 00:14:20,268
on the oil truck by 3:00.
205
00:14:20,292 --> 00:14:28,292
[♪]
206
00:14:36,609 --> 00:14:40,922
When you rode with him,
he was the professor.
207
00:14:40,946 --> 00:14:43,391
You could not
initiate a conversation,
208
00:14:43,415 --> 00:14:47,253
so you were constantly
getting this one-way input.
209
00:14:49,488 --> 00:14:55,370
He thought that we were destined
to have to work for everything
210
00:14:55,394 --> 00:14:59,274
because of what happened
in the Garden of Eden,
211
00:14:59,298 --> 00:15:02,344
and because of our fallen
nature; we would have to earn
212
00:15:02,368 --> 00:15:04,646
everything by the
sweat of our brow
213
00:15:04,670 --> 00:15:06,448
- that was biblical.
214
00:15:06,472 --> 00:15:10,018
And we would have to work
from sun to sun... biblical.
215
00:15:10,042 --> 00:15:14,213
The philosophy of life that he
had came from biblical sources.
216
00:15:20,052 --> 00:15:24,132
On Christmas Day 1957,
we went to the place where
217
00:15:24,156 --> 00:15:28,136
he had grown up,
which we called the farm.
218
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:34,366
[♪]
219
00:15:38,237 --> 00:15:44,085
The 60 acres had been passed
down undivided from generation to
220
00:15:44,109 --> 00:15:49,224
generation as was customary
with land owned by Southern blacks.
221
00:15:49,248 --> 00:15:57,248
[♪]
222
00:15:57,389 --> 00:16:00,459
And every summer
after that we farmed.
223
00:16:03,529 --> 00:16:09,511
He thought that we needed to
be kept busy during the summer.
224
00:16:09,535 --> 00:16:13,415
And he didn't want us around
our no good friends in the city,
225
00:16:13,439 --> 00:16:15,174
and "That riff raff."
226
00:16:17,309 --> 00:16:21,180
He said idle hands were
the devil's workshop.
227
00:16:25,451 --> 00:16:27,453
Your time is dominated by labor
228
00:16:32,524 --> 00:16:35,594
and there's a lot of it,
from sun to sun.
229
00:16:39,431 --> 00:16:42,610
He started plowing with
Cousin Jack's horse, Lizzie,
230
00:16:42,634 --> 00:16:46,982
which was a very
spirited animal,
231
00:16:47,006 --> 00:16:50,042
and we would go
running behind them.
232
00:16:51,777 --> 00:16:55,023
We cut down trees,
and he would always do it manually,
233
00:16:55,047 --> 00:16:59,394
you didn't use a chainsaw,
you used a cross-cut saw.
234
00:16:59,418 --> 00:17:04,599
It seems like everything
was made to be doubly hard.
235
00:17:04,623 --> 00:17:07,669
You're a little kid you
say you can't do it.
236
00:17:07,693 --> 00:17:09,270
And he would just say over and
237
00:17:09,294 --> 00:17:13,298
"Old man can't is dead,
I helped bury him".
238
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,478
CLARENCE: You're
building a fence line.
239
00:17:16,502 --> 00:17:20,582
You had to learn how
to stretch barbed wire.
240
00:17:20,606 --> 00:17:26,488
If you did something stupid he
would say to you "You know what?
241
00:17:26,512 --> 00:17:33,428
If I could cultivate your head
down to the size of your brain,
242
00:17:33,452 --> 00:17:38,266
a peanut hull would
make you a sun hat."
243
00:17:38,290 --> 00:17:40,735
Now that's not
exactly a compliment.
244
00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:43,705
CLARENCE: You had
to learn how to gut fish.
245
00:17:43,729 --> 00:17:48,309
You don't want to be there
and up to your eyebrow in scales
246
00:17:48,333 --> 00:17:50,779
and fish guts, and the smell.
247
00:17:50,803 --> 00:17:54,749
And then the accompaniments: the flies,
the gnats,
248
00:17:54,773 --> 00:17:57,685
the mosquitos etc.
249
00:17:57,709 --> 00:17:59,254
And you'd say would
you want to give up.
250
00:17:59,278 --> 00:18:02,757
And he said,
"You can give out but you can't give up."
251
00:18:02,781 --> 00:18:06,194
My grandmother would say
like "You should give them
252
00:18:06,218 --> 00:18:07,662
a compliment or do this."
253
00:18:07,686 --> 00:18:10,756
And he said "No,
that's their job to do it right."
254
00:18:14,493 --> 00:18:17,705
The family farm and
our unheated oil truck
255
00:18:17,729 --> 00:18:22,177
became my most
important classrooms,
256
00:18:22,201 --> 00:18:26,381
the schools in which my
grandfather passed on the wisdom
257
00:18:26,405 --> 00:18:30,251
he had acquired as an
ill-educated modestly successful
258
00:18:30,275 --> 00:18:33,345
black man in the deep south.
259
00:18:36,748 --> 00:18:43,832
My grandfather understood that
education was the key because
260
00:18:43,856 --> 00:18:46,801
he didn't have it,
and that's what held him back.
261
00:18:46,825 --> 00:18:51,272
And he said that he went
to third grade but school
262
00:18:51,296 --> 00:18:55,577
was three months out of the
year because you had to work.
263
00:18:55,601 --> 00:18:57,445
MICHAEL: Could
he read the Bible?
264
00:18:57,469 --> 00:19:00,849
He could he could make
out certain words in the Bible.
265
00:19:00,873 --> 00:19:05,520
When he got a portion of it,
like most of the,
266
00:19:05,544 --> 00:19:08,690
of the people I knew,
most were uneducated,
267
00:19:08,714 --> 00:19:11,226
and most were
functionally illiterate,
268
00:19:11,250 --> 00:19:13,761
and many were
totally illiterate.
269
00:19:13,785 --> 00:19:17,699
They would get a part of the
Bible that they would memorize
270
00:19:17,723 --> 00:19:22,370
or that they knew the story
and that would become apart
271
00:19:22,394 --> 00:19:24,363
of their lexicon.
272
00:19:26,865 --> 00:19:29,277
CLARENCE: He had gone
his own way and converted
273
00:19:29,301 --> 00:19:32,371
to Roman Catholicism in 1949.
274
00:19:36,575 --> 00:19:39,187
It followed that Catholic
schools had to be
275
00:19:39,211 --> 00:19:44,716
better than public schools so
he sent my brother and me to one.
276
00:19:48,253 --> 00:19:50,265
Remember now I
am seven years old.
277
00:19:50,289 --> 00:19:55,403
My brother is six and he
says to us "You are going to go
278
00:19:55,427 --> 00:20:00,175
to school every day,
and if you are sick,
279
00:20:00,199 --> 00:20:03,945
you are still going,
and if you die, you will go.
280
00:20:03,969 --> 00:20:06,781
I will take your body for
three days and make sure
281
00:20:06,805 --> 00:20:09,584
you're not faking",
and he meant it.
282
00:20:09,608 --> 00:20:12,954
The thing about it is,
it's one thing if somebody says it,
283
00:20:12,978 --> 00:20:16,224
and you think
they're exaggerating.
284
00:20:16,248 --> 00:20:17,892
He wasn't that kind of guy.
285
00:20:17,916 --> 00:20:25,366
[♪]
286
00:20:25,390 --> 00:20:27,769
CLARENCE: The Catholic
schools were very orderly.
287
00:20:27,793 --> 00:20:29,938
My brother used to say
"When you walked in there
288
00:20:29,962 --> 00:20:32,507
you could hear a gnat
tiptoeing across cotton."
289
00:20:32,531 --> 00:20:39,347
[♪]
290
00:20:39,371 --> 00:20:41,449
It was segregated.
291
00:20:41,473 --> 00:20:44,986
The nuns didn't much
appreciate the fact that blacks
292
00:20:45,010 --> 00:20:47,956
were treated that way.
293
00:20:47,980 --> 00:20:51,659
They were mostly Irish nuns,
and they were outspoken too.
294
00:20:51,683 --> 00:20:53,428
Oh God, I love it.
295
00:20:53,452 --> 00:20:56,397
They were on our
side from day one.
296
00:20:56,421 --> 00:21:04,421
[♪]
297
00:21:09,034 --> 00:21:11,246
You knew they loved you.
298
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:12,814
And when somebody,
when you think somebody loves you
299
00:21:12,838 --> 00:21:16,684
and deeply cares about your interests,
somehow,
300
00:21:16,708 --> 00:21:20,722
they can get you
to do hard things.
301
00:21:20,746 --> 00:21:24,025
Sister Mary Virgilius,
my eighth-grade teacher,
302
00:21:24,049 --> 00:21:27,795
when she saw my entrance
exam scores to high school,
303
00:21:27,819 --> 00:21:34,302
she looks me in the eye in 1962
and says "You lazy thing you."
304
00:21:34,326 --> 00:21:36,271
In other words,
I was underachieving.
305
00:21:36,295 --> 00:21:40,032
It was actually accurate,
and I've never forgotten it.
306
00:21:44,770 --> 00:21:49,617
Most dependable altar boys,
I had also been thinking about
307
00:21:49,641 --> 00:21:52,611
the possibility of
becoming a priest.
308
00:21:54,946 --> 00:21:58,393
A few months shy of my
16th birthday I decided
309
00:21:58,417 --> 00:22:01,296
I wanted to enter
St. John Vianney,
310
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:06,391
the diocesan minor seminary,
to prepare for the priesthood.
311
00:22:09,895 --> 00:22:13,641
So,
I told my grandfather who wasn't initially
312
00:22:13,665 --> 00:22:18,713
all that excited,
because it was expensive,
313
00:22:18,737 --> 00:22:22,550
and I remember when he
took me to the front porch,
314
00:22:22,574 --> 00:22:26,054
to have a talk,
315
00:22:26,078 --> 00:22:28,856
and I told him that I
thought I had a vocation,
316
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,625
and it would be great.
317
00:22:30,649 --> 00:22:33,061
And he said, "Well,
if you go you know you can't quit."
318
00:22:33,085 --> 00:22:41,085
[♪]
319
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:49,377
I showed up one Sunday
evening with my grandfather.
320
00:22:49,401 --> 00:22:54,382
He drove me there and he dropped me off,
and then he left.
321
00:22:54,406 --> 00:22:57,642
And so I'm there by myself,
and I look around-
322
00:23:00,445 --> 00:23:05,626
I'm the new kid,
so I'm the outsider, and I'm black.
323
00:23:05,650 --> 00:23:07,362
So,
obviously I didn't fit right in.
324
00:23:07,386 --> 00:23:11,390
So, I was like "What the heck?"
325
00:23:13,792 --> 00:23:17,138
MICHAEL: Did you have kind of
a fear of failure, in the early days?
326
00:23:17,162 --> 00:23:20,808
It's a new world in every way.
327
00:23:20,832 --> 00:23:23,611
It's a foreign world.
328
00:23:23,635 --> 00:23:27,682
And the work level,
the work is much more demanding.
329
00:23:27,706 --> 00:23:32,653
So obviously that would
create the sense in you
330
00:23:32,677 --> 00:23:38,893
that I may not be able to,
to live up to the expectation.
331
00:23:38,917 --> 00:23:46,901
[♪]
332
00:23:46,925 --> 00:23:51,906
Father Coleman said to me
that I would not be considered
333
00:23:51,930 --> 00:23:55,910
the equal of whites
if I didn't learn
334
00:23:55,934 --> 00:23:59,547
how to speak standard English.
335
00:23:59,571 --> 00:24:05,520
As much as it hurt,
there was some truth to it.
336
00:24:05,544 --> 00:24:10,024
I'm some place
between my dialect,
337
00:24:10,048 --> 00:24:13,661
and quote unquote
talking "Southern."
338
00:24:13,685 --> 00:24:18,666
But certainly nothing
close to standard English.
339
00:24:18,690 --> 00:24:24,071
But internally,
I vowed to learn English,
340
00:24:24,095 --> 00:24:29,000
and that no one would be
able to ever say that about me.
341
00:24:34,473 --> 00:24:39,220
CLARENCE: We were doing Robert
Frost and we came across this poem:
342
00:24:39,244 --> 00:24:42,757
"Two roads diverged in a wood,
and I took the one
343
00:24:42,781 --> 00:24:46,761
less traveled by,
and that has made all the difference."
344
00:24:46,785 --> 00:24:54,785
[♪]
345
00:25:01,233 --> 00:25:06,647
And what I was thinking
was; someplace in my life
346
00:25:06,671 --> 00:25:10,952
the roads had split off,
I was no longer in the world
347
00:25:10,976 --> 00:25:12,954
that was my comfort zone.
348
00:25:12,978 --> 00:25:20,978
[♪]
349
00:25:23,054 --> 00:25:27,969
I had gone to the seminary,
I had gone to all-white schools
350
00:25:27,993 --> 00:25:30,505
and then it's made
all the difference.
351
00:25:30,529 --> 00:25:32,039
What was that difference?
352
00:25:32,063 --> 00:25:33,732
That, I didn't know.
353
00:25:35,133 --> 00:25:37,178
I was never going to
be a part of that world;
354
00:25:37,202 --> 00:25:39,580
I was never going to be white.
355
00:25:39,604 --> 00:25:41,716
The problem is I could
never go back completely
356
00:25:41,740 --> 00:25:43,675
to the world I came from.
357
00:26:00,225 --> 00:26:02,870
I loved the contemplative life.
358
00:26:02,894 --> 00:26:07,275
I loved Lauds,
which was the morning prayers,
359
00:26:07,299 --> 00:26:09,777
vespers, evening prayers.
360
00:26:09,801 --> 00:26:12,137
I loved the Gregorian chant.
361
00:26:21,713 --> 00:26:24,215
Academically, I did very well.
362
00:26:29,154 --> 00:26:32,733
MICHAEL: So what was the
caption alongside your photo?
363
00:26:32,757 --> 00:26:37,738
CLARENCE: I think it's "Blew that test,
only a 98."
364
00:26:37,762 --> 00:26:41,142
Here was my thinking,
you assume you're going to be
365
00:26:41,166 --> 00:26:43,945
discriminated against,
366
00:26:43,969 --> 00:26:46,681
or at the very least
you're not going to
367
00:26:46,705 --> 00:26:49,817
be treated the
same way as whites.
368
00:26:49,841 --> 00:26:55,189
So, I can't get a 98.
369
00:26:55,213 --> 00:26:57,625
And if I'm going to
force someone to have to
370
00:26:57,649 --> 00:27:02,964
discriminate against me,
then I have to have a hundred.
371
00:27:02,988 --> 00:27:06,267
In other words,
leave them nothing but race,
372
00:27:06,291 --> 00:27:12,873
to force them. It's sort of like,
checkmate.
373
00:27:12,897 --> 00:27:14,132
OK?
374
00:27:18,737 --> 00:27:20,615
In those days the
Catholic church
375
00:27:20,639 --> 00:27:23,751
had little to say about racism.
376
00:27:23,775 --> 00:27:26,854
It seemed self-evident
that the treatment of blacks
377
00:27:26,878 --> 00:27:31,892
in America cried out for the
unequivocal condemnation
378
00:27:31,916 --> 00:27:34,228
of a righteous institution.
379
00:27:34,252 --> 00:27:38,866
MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR: Well,
there may be some tear gassing ahead.
380
00:27:38,890 --> 00:27:42,336
I say to you this afternoon
that I would rather die on the
381
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:46,197
highways of Alabama than
make a butchery of my conscience.
382
00:27:51,002 --> 00:27:54,072
POLICE: See that they
turn around and disperse.
383
00:28:05,784 --> 00:28:08,996
CLARENCE: Yet,
the church remained silent
384
00:28:09,020 --> 00:28:14,735
and its silence haunted me.
385
00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:16,737
I prayed for guidance
in the presence
386
00:28:16,761 --> 00:28:18,739
of the Blessed Sacrament
387
00:28:18,763 --> 00:28:20,107
but instead of comfort I found
388
00:28:20,131 --> 00:28:22,333
only sorrow and confusion.
389
00:28:28,073 --> 00:28:30,918
One day we were sitting in class,
I don't know,
390
00:28:30,942 --> 00:28:35,856
maybe history class,
or something.
391
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:41,295
People pass notes from time to time,
so I get a note;
392
00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:46,701
the note said "I like
Martin Luther King",
393
00:28:46,725 --> 00:28:48,202
and then you open up,
it's a small note,
394
00:28:48,226 --> 00:28:53,007
you open up the inside,
and it just had the word, dead.
395
00:28:53,031 --> 00:28:58,012
You have a range of emotions:
disappointment, anger.
396
00:28:58,036 --> 00:28:59,280
You want to lash out.
397
00:28:59,304 --> 00:29:00,772
You want to yell.
398
00:29:03,441 --> 00:29:06,954
In the spring,
when I was walking back into the hall.
399
00:29:06,978 --> 00:29:09,890
Someone was down watching TV,
and he yelled out
400
00:29:09,914 --> 00:29:13,327
from the basement as I
was walking in the dorm.
401
00:29:13,351 --> 00:29:17,164
He said "Martin Luther
King has just been shot."
402
00:29:17,188 --> 00:29:20,835
NEWSCASTER: Dr. King was
standing on the balcony of a second-floor
403
00:29:20,859 --> 00:29:22,903
hotel room tonight when,
404
00:29:22,927 --> 00:29:25,873
according to a companion,
a shot was fired from
405
00:29:25,897 --> 00:29:27,875
across the street.
406
00:29:27,899 --> 00:29:33,180
CLARENCE: And the seminarian
in front of me said "That's good.
407
00:29:33,204 --> 00:29:35,216
I hope the son of a bitch dies."
408
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,218
And that was pretty
much the end of me.
409
00:29:37,242 --> 00:29:38,886
That was it.
410
00:29:38,910 --> 00:29:42,389
Because that was the opposite
of what I thought you said
411
00:29:42,413 --> 00:29:45,860
about a man of God
and what a seminarian,
412
00:29:45,884 --> 00:29:47,528
or the church, should do.
413
00:29:47,552 --> 00:29:52,533
To the extent that I had any ambivalence,
it ended that day.
414
00:29:52,557 --> 00:29:55,936
The priesthood had been my only goal,
and when that went away
415
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,340
it was like I
was in a free fall.
416
00:29:59,364 --> 00:30:05,346
So anyway I, I go home,
and now I face my grandfather.
417
00:30:05,370 --> 00:30:09,817
GINNI THOMAS: As Clarence tells me
about going to his grandfather to tell him
418
00:30:09,841 --> 00:30:14,922
he was quitting the seminary it
probably was the hardest point
419
00:30:14,946 --> 00:30:20,285
of his life, to tell that man
that he was disappointing him.
420
00:30:24,522 --> 00:30:26,534
And I'd like to say,
"It was facing the music",
421
00:30:26,558 --> 00:30:28,102
but it wasn't music.
422
00:30:28,126 --> 00:30:34,909
It was a stony silence almost,
and it was a coldness.
423
00:30:34,933 --> 00:30:39,079
So he took me
to the living room,
424
00:30:39,103 --> 00:30:42,983
and he said that,
as he had promised when we came to live
425
00:30:43,007 --> 00:30:47,254
in '55, 1955,
the door opened inward then,
426
00:30:47,278 --> 00:30:49,323
now it was opening outward.
427
00:30:49,347 --> 00:30:51,559
And I was to leave
his house if I was,
428
00:30:51,583 --> 00:30:57,331
since I had made decisions of a man,
I should live like one.
429
00:30:57,355 --> 00:31:03,070
And he said, I will never forget,
"To-day, this day."
430
00:31:03,094 --> 00:31:04,538
I think I was fumbling around,
I said
431
00:31:04,562 --> 00:31:06,207
"Well, are you still going
to help me with college?"
432
00:31:06,231 --> 00:31:09,601
He said "No. You're a
man. You figure it out."
433
00:31:14,272 --> 00:31:18,519
CLARENCE: Where could
I go? What would I do?
434
00:31:18,543 --> 00:31:23,123
First the seminary,
then the country,
435
00:31:23,147 --> 00:31:27,127
now the only real
home I'd ever known.
436
00:31:27,151 --> 00:31:29,129
All were crashing around me.
437
00:31:29,153 --> 00:31:37,153
[♪]
438
00:31:43,568 --> 00:31:47,214
My mother had an extra
room in her apartment,
439
00:31:47,238 --> 00:31:50,317
so I went over there.
440
00:31:50,341 --> 00:31:53,053
MICHAEL: I think you've said
it felt like you were reversing
441
00:31:53,077 --> 00:31:54,889
your first walk to
your grandfather's.
442
00:31:54,913 --> 00:32:00,294
Yeah, I was going from 1955,
I had come to
443
00:32:00,318 --> 00:32:03,530
this wonderful place
that was a sanctuary,
444
00:32:03,554 --> 00:32:06,967
and now I was going
back to live with my mother
445
00:32:06,991 --> 00:32:08,502
in her apartment.
446
00:32:08,526 --> 00:32:13,073
NEWSCASTER 1: Washington,
Chicago, Boston, New York, these are
447
00:32:13,097 --> 00:32:15,976
just a few of the cities in
which the negro anguish
448
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,614
over Dr. King's murder expressed
itself in violent destruction.
449
00:32:20,638 --> 00:32:24,919
CLARENCE: Summer of '68
was when you had a lot of the riots,
450
00:32:24,943 --> 00:32:27,354
I mean I thought
everything was coming apart
451
00:32:27,378 --> 00:32:30,291
NEWSCASTER 2: Some buildings
were put to the torch while the looters
452
00:32:30,315 --> 00:32:34,295
stripped block after block
of stores along 7th Street.
453
00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:38,699
CLARENCE: I was getting ready for
work and I was listening to the radio
454
00:32:38,723 --> 00:32:40,267
while I did that.
455
00:32:40,291 --> 00:32:43,461
NEWSCASTER: Oh my God.
Senator Kennedy has been shot.
456
00:32:48,032 --> 00:32:50,511
CLARENCE: And they announced
that he had been assassinated.
457
00:32:50,535 --> 00:32:56,417
Well I mean, I dropped to my knees,
I said "it's over."
458
00:32:56,441 --> 00:32:58,252
Bad things were happening.
459
00:32:58,276 --> 00:33:00,487
My grandfather
had kicked me out.
460
00:33:00,511 --> 00:33:04,491
I remember sitting there,
"Kennedy, King, Kennedy."
461
00:33:04,515 --> 00:33:07,027
"KKK" I remember writing it.
462
00:33:07,051 --> 00:33:08,495
Oh my God, there it is!
463
00:33:08,519 --> 00:33:10,664
'KKK'you know.
464
00:33:10,688 --> 00:33:15,369
And it was, it was,
that was probably the last straw.
465
00:33:15,393 --> 00:33:18,405
I mean,
I didn't need a last straw but that was it.
466
00:33:18,429 --> 00:33:20,999
That was the nail
in the coffin for me.
467
00:33:26,170 --> 00:33:31,485
And for the first time in
my life racism and race
468
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:32,987
explained everything.
469
00:33:33,011 --> 00:33:37,691
It became, sort of,
the substitute religion;
470
00:33:37,715 --> 00:33:41,328
I shoved aside Catholicism
and now it was this,
471
00:33:41,352 --> 00:33:43,330
it was all about race.
472
00:33:43,354 --> 00:33:51,354
[♪]
473
00:33:52,063 --> 00:33:55,609
Every southern black had known
such moments and felt the rage
474
00:33:55,633 --> 00:33:58,645
that threatened to burn
through the mask of meekness
475
00:33:58,669 --> 00:34:04,785
and submission behind
which we hid our true feelings.
476
00:34:04,809 --> 00:34:06,387
I'm angry with my grandfather.
477
00:34:06,411 --> 00:34:09,323
I'm angry with the church.
478
00:34:09,347 --> 00:34:10,491
If it's a warm day, I'm angry.
479
00:34:10,515 --> 00:34:12,292
If it's a cold day, I'm angry.
480
00:34:12,316 --> 00:34:17,064
I'm sort of flying,
lashing out at every single thing.
481
00:34:17,088 --> 00:34:20,167
Nothing is right.
482
00:34:20,191 --> 00:34:22,202
I'm staying in a room
with a mynah bird,
483
00:34:22,226 --> 00:34:25,639
with my mother,
with her two big dogs.
484
00:34:25,663 --> 00:34:29,510
But the one out, that I do have,
485
00:34:29,534 --> 00:34:33,280
is that I was accepted
to Holy Cross.
486
00:34:33,304 --> 00:34:37,642
I've got one door is open,
only one, and that was Holy Cross.
487
00:34:53,391 --> 00:34:57,838
GINNI THOMAS: When he left the
seminary and found his way to Holy Cross,
488
00:34:57,862 --> 00:35:05,813
he was entering society
that was in turmoil,
489
00:35:05,837 --> 00:35:09,750
and he found his way to
other blacks at Holy Cross
490
00:35:09,774 --> 00:35:13,253
who were very
radical and Marxist.
491
00:35:13,277 --> 00:35:20,194
[♪]
492
00:35:20,218 --> 00:35:22,763
We're supposed to
be revolutionaries.
493
00:35:22,787 --> 00:35:27,568
So you go to the local army
navy store in Worcester,
494
00:35:27,592 --> 00:35:32,272
and you get army fatigues,
and boots.
495
00:35:32,296 --> 00:35:34,308
Why that was the
dress is beyond me,
496
00:35:34,332 --> 00:35:38,178
but that's the way we dressed.
497
00:35:38,202 --> 00:35:41,906
I wore carpenter's pants,
and bib overalls.
498
00:35:47,378 --> 00:35:49,256
STOKELY CARMICHAEL: We are
going to shoot the cops who are shooting
499
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,517
our black brothers in
the back in this country!
500
00:35:56,521 --> 00:35:59,366
We were for anybody who was kind of,
in your face.
501
00:35:59,390 --> 00:36:03,337
It could be Stokely Carmichael,
it could be H. Rap Brown.
502
00:36:03,361 --> 00:36:06,340
H RAP BROWN: The brothers in here
maintain that they will stay here until
503
00:36:06,364 --> 00:36:09,910
the university is willing
to talk on their terms.
504
00:36:09,934 --> 00:36:13,847
It could be Angela Davis,
it could be Huey Newton.
505
00:36:13,871 --> 00:36:17,942
So the more radical tended to be
the people we gravitated toward.
506
00:36:21,546 --> 00:36:26,627
Art Martin decided to start a
black student union, and he had
507
00:36:26,651 --> 00:36:31,365
some ideas,
but I could type. I said "I'll type it up."
508
00:36:31,389 --> 00:36:35,202
I had my trusty
Smith-Corona typewriter
509
00:36:35,226 --> 00:36:36,570
with automatic return.
510
00:36:36,594 --> 00:36:37,771
I said "What do you want in it?"
511
00:36:37,795 --> 00:36:40,707
He said "anything
you put in it."
512
00:36:40,731 --> 00:36:44,235
So I typed it up and that
became the Black Student Union.
513
00:36:46,304 --> 00:36:50,884
MICHAEL: When did you first meet
Kathy Ambush, and what was she like?
514
00:36:50,908 --> 00:36:55,689
CLARENCE: I met her
in my sophomore year.
515
00:36:55,713 --> 00:36:58,759
Our politics overlapped,
our politics tended to be
516
00:36:58,783 --> 00:37:01,795
more radical, to the left.
517
00:37:01,819 --> 00:37:04,865
We started dating,
and would date throughout my time
518
00:37:04,889 --> 00:37:06,324
at Holy Cross.
519
00:37:09,794 --> 00:37:14,474
When I would go back home,
the exchanges with my grand father
520
00:37:14,498 --> 00:37:18,745
were really horrible.
521
00:37:18,769 --> 00:37:21,782
Because I'd talk about the revolution,
and I would
522
00:37:21,806 --> 00:37:25,419
be drinking, and would,
and wouldn't comb my hair,
523
00:37:25,443 --> 00:37:28,789
and it was bad.
524
00:37:28,813 --> 00:37:31,658
And he looked at me would
say and he "I didn't raise
525
00:37:31,682 --> 00:37:33,484
you to be like this."
526
00:37:38,556 --> 00:37:45,606
"After all our sacrifices,
this is what you've become."
527
00:37:45,630 --> 00:37:50,544
I thought he was weak.
528
00:37:50,568 --> 00:37:54,848
And he thought I was,
I'd gone up north and become,
529
00:37:54,872 --> 00:37:57,484
as he said,
"one of those damn educated fools."
530
00:37:57,508 --> 00:38:00,254
That I went up north and
they put all that foolishness
531
00:38:00,278 --> 00:38:02,289
in my head.
532
00:38:02,313 --> 00:38:07,261
And my brother who came
from the Vietnam War didn't like it.
533
00:38:07,285 --> 00:38:12,766
CLARENCE: He told me that
all of us should leave the country.
534
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:14,001
MICHAEL: All you radicals?
535
00:38:14,025 --> 00:38:16,803
All of us should
leave the country.
536
00:38:16,827 --> 00:38:21,975
He had no use for any of us.
537
00:38:21,999 --> 00:38:25,779
CLARENCE: But I went
right back to my radical friends.
538
00:38:25,803 --> 00:38:27,681
In the spring of 1970 I was one
539
00:38:27,705 --> 00:38:31,652
of several Black Students Union
members who went to Boston
540
00:38:31,676 --> 00:38:36,056
to take part in
an anti-war rally.
541
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,426
The organizers of the
rally urged us to march to
542
00:38:39,450 --> 00:38:42,362
Harvard square to
protest the treatment
543
00:38:42,386 --> 00:38:46,733
of America's domestic
political prisoners.
544
00:38:46,757 --> 00:38:50,704
Off we went chanting "Ho,
Ho, Ho Chi Minh."
545
00:38:50,728 --> 00:38:53,373
And demanding
freedom for Angela Davis,
546
00:38:53,397 --> 00:38:57,611
Erica Huggins and anyone
else we could think of.
547
00:38:57,635 --> 00:39:02,649
On the way to Cambridge
we stopped at this liquor store,
548
00:39:02,673 --> 00:39:07,988
and this poor guy, he saw us,
and he gave us the liquor.
549
00:39:08,012 --> 00:39:10,991
I think he gave us some potato chips,
or something, too.
550
00:39:11,015 --> 00:39:13,660
But he said "just go."
551
00:39:13,684 --> 00:39:16,354
And then on the way we consumed
this liquid courage, you know?
552
00:39:17,922 --> 00:39:23,437
Then we proceeded to be back
and forth in Cambridge all night.
553
00:39:23,461 --> 00:39:28,442
I mean there was teargas,
sirens, it was bad.
554
00:39:28,466 --> 00:39:36,466
[♪]
555
00:39:46,817 --> 00:39:53,433
getting hurt, or anything else,
or what was happening
556
00:39:53,457 --> 00:39:55,126
to other people.
557
00:39:57,962 --> 00:40:01,074
I got back to campus
at 4 in the morning,
558
00:40:01,098 --> 00:40:04,611
horrified by what
I had just done.
559
00:40:04,635 --> 00:40:07,981
I had let myself be
swept up by an angry mob
560
00:40:08,005 --> 00:40:13,077
for no good reason other than,
that I too was angry.
561
00:40:16,914 --> 00:40:20,394
I stopped in front of the chapel
and prayed for the first time
562
00:40:20,418 --> 00:40:25,532
in nearly 2 years.
563
00:40:25,556 --> 00:40:29,569
I asked God,
I said "If you take anger out of my heart,
564
00:40:29,593 --> 00:40:32,663
I'll never hate again."
565
00:40:37,034 --> 00:40:40,447
And that was the
beginning of the slow return
566
00:40:40,471 --> 00:40:42,516
to where I started.
567
00:40:42,540 --> 00:40:50,540
[♪]
568
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:10,043
[♪]
569
00:41:10,067 --> 00:41:13,547
CLARENCE: You know what
Yale was back in the 1970s.
570
00:41:13,571 --> 00:41:19,219
Yale was,
four generations of Groton and, and
571
00:41:19,243 --> 00:41:26,927
Phillips Exeter,
and "my father's grandfather was here."
572
00:41:26,951 --> 00:41:32,966
And there were secret societies,
and all that sort of stuff.
573
00:41:32,990 --> 00:41:35,635
It was a different world,
and it was a world that
574
00:41:35,659 --> 00:41:39,706
I didn't quite understand.
575
00:41:39,730 --> 00:41:46,079
When Jamal was born in February
of my second year of law school.
576
00:41:46,103 --> 00:41:48,982
It woke me up about
the direction that we were
577
00:41:49,006 --> 00:41:51,718
headed in in our country,
and what the prospects
578
00:41:51,742 --> 00:41:53,811
would be for him.
579
00:41:59,250 --> 00:42:02,529
I watched busing on TV,
and busing was a big deal,
580
00:42:02,553 --> 00:42:05,565
remember because it
was so violent in Boston.
581
00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:09,503
NEWSCASTER: By federal court order
a fleet of buses was hired to transport
582
00:42:09,527 --> 00:42:11,605
black students to
all white schools,
583
00:42:11,629 --> 00:42:13,807
and whites to black
neighborhoods.
584
00:42:13,831 --> 00:42:16,109
Coming to South Boston,
a traditionally conservative
585
00:42:16,133 --> 00:42:19,579
and Irish enclave,
blacks who made
586
00:42:19,603 --> 00:42:22,849
the trip were met with cat calls,
curses and worse.
587
00:42:22,873 --> 00:42:29,079
[♪]
588
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:37,964
CLARENCE: I'd been to South Boston,
and I was scared to death
589
00:42:37,988 --> 00:42:41,268
to be over there,
590
00:42:41,292 --> 00:42:45,605
and the schools were as
bad as the schools in Roxbury
591
00:42:45,629 --> 00:42:47,874
where the black kids were from.
592
00:42:47,898 --> 00:42:50,310
So why were you sending
a kid through all that trouble,
593
00:42:50,334 --> 00:42:53,280
to go to school that's as bad,
or worse?
594
00:42:53,304 --> 00:42:55,048
That didn't make
any sense to me.
595
00:42:55,072 --> 00:42:59,152
Someone has a theory,
and then they insert human beings
596
00:42:59,176 --> 00:43:06,026
You know sort of like "have theory,
add people."
597
00:43:06,050 --> 00:43:08,295
You know, it's like, instant,
598
00:43:08,319 --> 00:43:11,131
instant coffee or something.
599
00:43:11,155 --> 00:43:12,165
"Have coffee."
600
00:43:12,189 --> 00:43:13,824
"Add water."
601
00:43:15,693 --> 00:43:18,772
But I knew one thing,
nobody was going to have
602
00:43:18,796 --> 00:43:22,342
some social experiment
and throw my son in there.
603
00:43:22,366 --> 00:43:30,366
[♪]
604
00:43:32,643 --> 00:43:40,643
In law school, I would describe
myself as a lazy libertarian.
605
00:43:40,851 --> 00:43:43,229
And it was because I
was looking at structures,
606
00:43:43,253 --> 00:43:45,198
or restrictions on me.
607
00:43:45,222 --> 00:43:48,268
Whether there were religious restrictions,
or structures or
608
00:43:48,292 --> 00:43:51,171
strictures on me.
609
00:43:51,195 --> 00:43:56,142
My grandfather and his rules,
society and its rules,
610
00:43:56,166 --> 00:43:58,712
and I guess in a sense,
I was saying
611
00:43:58,736 --> 00:44:01,848
"all of you leave me alone."
612
00:44:01,872 --> 00:44:06,677
In fact, my mantra, when I was
in law school, is "leave me alone."
613
00:44:08,412 --> 00:44:11,257
BOARD MEMBER 1: Mr. Roark,
the commission is yours.
614
00:44:11,281 --> 00:44:12,726
MICHAEL: Were you influenced by
615
00:44:12,750 --> 00:44:14,928
Ayn Rand's
libertarian philosophy?
616
00:44:14,952 --> 00:44:17,197
CLARENCE: You know,
Ayn Rand and Fountainhead started
617
00:44:17,221 --> 00:44:20,400
and this would play
out later in law school.
618
00:44:20,424 --> 00:44:25,071
BOARD MEMBER 2: We want
you to adapt your building like this.
619
00:44:25,095 --> 00:44:26,940
BOARD MEMBER 1: And we must
always compromise with the general taste
620
00:44:26,964 --> 00:44:28,808
Mr. Roark,
you understand that I'm sure.
621
00:44:28,832 --> 00:44:31,911
HOWARD ROARK: No.
622
00:44:31,935 --> 00:44:34,347
If you want my work you
must take it as it is or not at all.
623
00:44:34,371 --> 00:44:38,184
CLARENCE: And so, when you
read these books, you say "Yeah, OK.
624
00:44:38,208 --> 00:44:42,756
I'll become a day laborer
rather than be told what to do."
625
00:44:42,780 --> 00:44:44,891
BOARD MEMBER 3: Roark, this is
sheer insanity can't you give in just once?
626
00:44:44,915 --> 00:44:46,359
After all, you have to live.
627
00:44:46,383 --> 00:44:51,331
BOARD MEMBER 3: How
else? Don't you have to work?
628
00:44:51,355 --> 00:44:57,170
HOWARD ROARK: I'd rather
work as a day laborer if necessary.
629
00:44:57,194 --> 00:45:00,273
CLARENCE: I would rather total
failure in your world than to be told
630
00:45:00,297 --> 00:45:04,935
what to do, or to be made to do
something that I think is wrong.
631
00:45:09,707 --> 00:45:15,355
Yale was the end of the line,
and I made it through.
632
00:45:15,379 --> 00:45:18,458
So, I really wanted my
grandfather to be there to
633
00:45:18,482 --> 00:45:24,764
witness the end, to witness
that the kid that he took in in 1955,
634
00:45:24,788 --> 00:45:26,900
crossed the finish line.
635
00:45:26,924 --> 00:45:33,097
[♪]
636
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:41,981
My grandfather did not come.
637
00:45:42,005 --> 00:45:44,417
He always had a reason.
638
00:45:44,441 --> 00:45:48,855
And you know, I think in sort of,
I think he was upset
639
00:45:48,879 --> 00:45:51,091
with me,
I could understand that.
640
00:45:51,115 --> 00:45:55,161
And I certainly had not given
him many good reasons to have
641
00:45:55,185 --> 00:45:59,199
any deep,
and warm or fuzzy feelings about me,
642
00:45:59,223 --> 00:46:01,801
or my graduation.
643
00:46:01,825 --> 00:46:05,038
So, nobody could come.
644
00:46:05,062 --> 00:46:13,062
That was probably more difficult for me,
and embittered me,
645
00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:15,139
more than anything else.
646
00:46:17,775 --> 00:46:23,323
I interviewed for jobs in D.C.,
Atlanta, New York, L.A.,
647
00:46:23,347 --> 00:46:29,763
with anyone,
anywhere who might hire me.
648
00:46:29,787 --> 00:46:33,533
If you were black,
and you were at Yale, the presumptions
649
00:46:33,557 --> 00:46:36,136
were quite different than,
if you were white.
650
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,838
So if you're white,
and you graduated from Yale,
651
00:46:38,862 --> 00:46:40,507
the presumption is what?
652
00:46:40,531 --> 00:46:44,144
It is that you are
really among the best.
653
00:46:44,168 --> 00:46:48,314
On the other hand,
if you're black and you're there,
654
00:46:48,338 --> 00:46:50,784
you didn't really
quite belong there.
655
00:46:50,808 --> 00:46:53,553
So, we'll discount that a bit.
656
00:46:53,577 --> 00:46:56,790
They can say 10 percent,
5 percent whatever.
657
00:46:56,814 --> 00:47:01,828
But the reality was the
discounted approach resulted in
658
00:47:01,852 --> 00:47:05,832
certainly me not
being able to get a job.
659
00:47:05,856 --> 00:47:08,034
MICHAEL: But, eventually,
the Missouri Attorney General,
660
00:47:08,058 --> 00:47:10,503
Jack Danforth,
offered you a job.
661
00:47:10,527 --> 00:47:12,138
CLARENCE: It was
the only job offer I got.
662
00:47:12,162 --> 00:47:15,975
It was the quintessential
Hobson's choice.
663
00:47:15,999 --> 00:47:19,546
He went on to promise me "Clarence,
I promise you more
664
00:47:19,570 --> 00:47:23,540
work for less money,
than anybody in the country."
665
00:47:24,875 --> 00:47:29,823
The pay was ten
thousand eight hundred.
666
00:47:29,847 --> 00:47:34,093
The hardest part about
taking the job was,
667
00:47:34,117 --> 00:47:36,462
he was a Republican,
668
00:47:36,486 --> 00:47:41,000
and the idea of
working for a Republican
669
00:47:41,024 --> 00:47:43,870
was repulsive, at best.
670
00:47:43,894 --> 00:47:45,505
I was a registered Democrat.
671
00:47:45,529 --> 00:47:48,007
I was left wing.
672
00:47:48,031 --> 00:47:52,169
As nice as he was,
he was still a Republican.
673
00:47:53,403 --> 00:47:57,574
Putting that nicety aside,
I wound up going.
674
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,366
Cases poured through
there; in those days
675
00:48:13,390 --> 00:48:17,871
the Attorney General's
office handled all the appeals
676
00:48:17,895 --> 00:48:20,964
from the local prosecutors
across the state.
677
00:48:22,099 --> 00:48:25,478
At the time,
my thinking was that all blacks
678
00:48:25,502 --> 00:48:27,113
were political prisoners.
679
00:48:27,137 --> 00:48:29,415
That's,
that's sort of the sophisticated level
680
00:48:29,439 --> 00:48:33,353
at which I looked at the
criminal justice system.
681
00:48:33,377 --> 00:48:36,489
I worried about what I would do,
when I got a case
682
00:48:36,513 --> 00:48:42,428
involving black defendants,
and then it happened.
683
00:48:42,452 --> 00:48:47,333
This guy was sitting on a bench,
or something,
684
00:48:47,357 --> 00:48:49,335
and this black woman comes by.
685
00:48:49,359 --> 00:48:51,271
He's black, she's black.
686
00:48:51,295 --> 00:48:53,273
She's got her two, or three,
year old kid in the car
687
00:48:53,297 --> 00:48:57,911
In those days,
most people didn't have air conditioning.
688
00:48:57,935 --> 00:48:59,512
So, the windows are down.
689
00:48:59,536 --> 00:49:02,682
He comes up to the car,
at the stop light,
690
00:49:02,706 --> 00:49:06,386
with an old style can opener,
with a point, puts it to
691
00:49:06,410 --> 00:49:10,590
the kid's neck,
and forces his way in the car,
692
00:49:10,614 --> 00:49:13,459
threatening the kid.
693
00:49:13,483 --> 00:49:16,562
And then he takes her
to a remote location,
694
00:49:16,586 --> 00:49:22,101
rapes and sodomizes her,
and he takes her to another location,
695
00:49:22,125 --> 00:49:25,605
and rapes and
sodomizes her again.
696
00:49:25,629 --> 00:49:29,275
This case was far from unusual.
697
00:49:29,299 --> 00:49:33,079
Blacks were responsible for
almost 80% of violent crimes
698
00:49:33,103 --> 00:49:36,649
committed against blacks,
and killed over 90%
699
00:49:36,673 --> 00:49:39,218
of black murder victims.
700
00:49:39,242 --> 00:49:45,291
For most people that would be obvious,
for me it was one of
701
00:49:45,315 --> 00:49:47,417
these road to
Damascus experiences.
702
00:49:51,722 --> 00:49:56,536
Jack Danforth got elected to the Senate,
and I had already
703
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,639
been there two and a half years,
and I really wanted
704
00:49:59,663 --> 00:50:02,542
to move more toward business.
705
00:50:02,566 --> 00:50:04,644
I had better options now.
706
00:50:04,668 --> 00:50:12,668
[♪]
707
00:50:14,011 --> 00:50:20,626
It was a fine job but it was
not enough work for me.
708
00:50:20,650 --> 00:50:22,729
I had too much energy.
709
00:50:22,753 --> 00:50:26,566
They spoon-fed the work
and they parceled it out.
710
00:50:26,590 --> 00:50:29,569
I was used to the
work pouring in.
711
00:50:29,593 --> 00:50:33,639
My Grandfather's Son,
I noticed that Monsanto employed a number
712
00:50:33,663 --> 00:50:37,343
of talented blacks who
should have been moving up
713
00:50:37,367 --> 00:50:39,679
the corporate ladder
far more quickly.
714
00:50:39,703 --> 00:50:44,784
MICHAEL: Did you go to speak
to the affirmative action manager?
715
00:50:44,808 --> 00:50:49,455
I confronted him about it and
he pulls out this EEO report
716
00:50:49,479 --> 00:50:51,324
with the numbers on
it; it was one of these
717
00:50:51,348 --> 00:50:55,495
computer print-outs,
as though those are people.
718
00:50:55,519 --> 00:50:58,264
You know he's not talking
about who is getting training,
719
00:50:58,288 --> 00:51:02,535
whose got mentors,
what assignments they have,
720
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:04,604
who is getting promoted.
721
00:51:04,628 --> 00:51:07,707
He's got this report that he
shows to the labor department,
722
00:51:07,731 --> 00:51:09,742
and that is these statistics.
723
00:51:09,766 --> 00:51:13,613
MICHAEL: The affirmative action manager,
he was African American?
724
00:51:13,637 --> 00:51:15,348
Yes, yeah, mhm.
725
00:51:15,372 --> 00:51:17,450
MICHAEL: He wasn't sympathetic?
726
00:51:17,474 --> 00:51:22,722
He was doing his job and
his reports said he was OK.
727
00:51:22,746 --> 00:51:26,626
MICHAEL: He didn't care that these
other black managers were stalled?
728
00:51:26,650 --> 00:51:29,095
Well I don't know if he cared.
729
00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:31,798
He was doing his job,
and the reports were OK.
730
00:51:31,822 --> 00:51:33,699
That's the most I got.
731
00:51:33,723 --> 00:51:36,669
But I just thought that
we're kidding ourselves.
732
00:51:36,693 --> 00:51:43,109
We're looking at numbers and
the numbers prove everything,
733
00:51:43,133 --> 00:51:46,570
and human beings are
having a lot of difficulties.
734
00:51:48,438 --> 00:51:50,750
CLARENCE: I could
feel the golden handcuffs
735
00:51:50,774 --> 00:51:54,087
of a comfortable but
unfulfilling life snapping
736
00:51:54,111 --> 00:51:56,189
shut on my wrists.
737
00:51:56,213 --> 00:52:00,283
I had to quit now
or I never would.
738
00:52:05,322 --> 00:52:10,470
And shortly after that I get
a call from Senator Danforth
739
00:52:10,494 --> 00:52:13,506
to see if I would be
interested in working for him.
740
00:52:13,530 --> 00:52:21,530
[♪]
741
00:52:30,147 --> 00:52:33,526
RONALD REAGAN: More than
anything else I want my candidacy
742
00:52:33,550 --> 00:52:38,264
to unify our country,
to renew the American spirit,
743
00:52:38,288 --> 00:52:40,633
and sense of purpose.
744
00:52:40,657 --> 00:52:42,869
CLARENCE: In the fall
of 1980 I had decided
745
00:52:42,893 --> 00:52:45,138
to vote for Ronald Reagan.
746
00:52:45,162 --> 00:52:48,407
It was a giant step
for a black man.
747
00:52:48,431 --> 00:52:52,879
But I was distressed by the
Democratic party's promises
748
00:52:52,903 --> 00:52:57,383
to legislate the problems
of blacks out of existence.
749
00:52:57,407 --> 00:53:01,420
RONALD REAGAN: I pledge to you to
restore the federal government the capacity
750
00:53:01,444 --> 00:53:06,325
to do the people's work
without dominating their lives.
751
00:53:06,349 --> 00:53:09,162
CLARENCE: Reagan
by contrast was promising
752
00:53:09,186 --> 00:53:12,198
an end to the indiscriminate
social engineering
753
00:53:12,222 --> 00:53:14,291
of the 60's and 70's.
754
00:53:17,260 --> 00:53:21,574
Reagan won in a landslide.
755
00:53:21,598 --> 00:53:23,209
RONALD REAGAN: So help me God.
756
00:53:23,233 --> 00:53:24,913
CHIEF JUSTICE: May I congratulate you,
Sir.
757
00:53:38,248 --> 00:53:40,393
CLARENCE: For the
first time in my adult life
758
00:53:40,417 --> 00:53:42,895
Washington was full
of serious talk about
759
00:53:42,919 --> 00:53:45,264
the possibility of getting
government off the backs
760
00:53:45,288 --> 00:53:47,224
of the poor.
761
00:53:48,625 --> 00:53:50,736
THOMAS SOWELL: This is
really an historic opportunity.
762
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,673
The economic and social
advancement of blacks
763
00:53:53,697 --> 00:53:56,742
in this country is still
a great unfinished task.
764
00:53:56,766 --> 00:54:00,746
CLARENCE: Tom Sowell
invited me to this conference.
765
00:54:00,770 --> 00:54:03,749
And it would be named
the Fairmont Conference
766
00:54:03,773 --> 00:54:09,989
because it was held at the
Fairmont Hotel in San Francisco.
767
00:54:10,013 --> 00:54:15,761
It was how do we rethink
the policies toward blacks
768
00:54:15,785 --> 00:54:19,465
in this country in a
new administration?
769
00:54:19,489 --> 00:54:22,702
THOMAS SOWELL: Many
social problems are worsening,
770
00:54:22,726 --> 00:54:24,870
continued
disintegration of families
771
00:54:24,894 --> 00:54:26,806
CLARENCE: I sat at this table.
772
00:54:26,830 --> 00:54:30,243
And there was a young
black reporter there.
773
00:54:30,267 --> 00:54:32,612
And I knew nothing
about the press.
774
00:54:32,636 --> 00:54:37,016
One question he asked me
was "why was I so interested
775
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:38,751
in all these social issues?"
776
00:54:38,775 --> 00:54:41,887
And I explained to him
because of the destruction I saw
777
00:54:41,911 --> 00:54:45,024
it doing at home in Savannah.
778
00:54:45,048 --> 00:54:47,760
And as an example of that,
I used my sister and her
779
00:54:47,784 --> 00:54:53,790
kids being objects
of these programs.
780
00:54:56,059 --> 00:54:59,705
Little did I know,
he would write an article about this,
781
00:54:59,729 --> 00:55:01,941
and would turn it into an op-ed.
782
00:55:01,965 --> 00:55:09,965
[♪]
783
00:55:12,042 --> 00:55:16,455
GINNI THOMAS: The article
by Juan Williams became a point
784
00:55:16,479 --> 00:55:20,026
at which Clarence
became a public persona.
785
00:55:20,050 --> 00:55:28,050
[♪]
786
00:55:35,498 --> 00:55:38,944
Then license is given to others,
to attack you in whatever
787
00:55:38,968 --> 00:55:40,579
way they want to.
788
00:55:40,603 --> 00:55:42,882
You're not really black
because you're not doing
789
00:55:42,906 --> 00:55:44,984
what you expect
black people to do.
790
00:55:45,008 --> 00:55:49,789
You weren't supposed to oppose
busing; you weren't supposed
791
00:55:49,813 --> 00:55:51,448
to oppose welfare.
792
00:55:54,718 --> 00:56:00,599
MICHAEL: Perhaps it marked a
course for you, Justice Thomas.
793
00:56:00,623 --> 00:56:03,069
CLARENCE: Oh,
I don't know if it marked the course,
794
00:56:03,093 --> 00:56:05,638
but there was no going back.
795
00:56:05,662 --> 00:56:13,662
[♪]
796
00:56:25,682 --> 00:56:33,682
[♪]
797
00:56:50,173 --> 00:56:54,820
The Reagan administration
was running into the storm.
798
00:56:54,844 --> 00:56:57,823
Everything the president did,
he was called a racist.
799
00:56:57,847 --> 00:57:00,626
That was from
the very beginning.
800
00:57:00,650 --> 00:57:02,928
I was under constant attack.
801
00:57:02,952 --> 00:57:10,952
We have attempted in the last
2 years to remedy a wide range
802
00:57:11,094 --> 00:57:16,475
NEWSCASTER: Congressman Barney
Frank says he remains skeptical of progress
803
00:57:16,499 --> 00:57:18,711
under the current
administration.
804
00:57:18,735 --> 00:57:23,649
RONALD REAGAN: I'm pleased that
this is also an opportunity to acknowledge
805
00:57:23,673 --> 00:57:28,487
CLARENCE: We have a positive record
that we should never back down from.
806
00:57:28,511 --> 00:57:31,857
That point is one that I
cannot stress enough.
807
00:57:31,881 --> 00:57:34,894
Any black misguided
enough to accept a job
808
00:57:34,918 --> 00:57:38,864
in the Reagan administration
was automatically branded
809
00:57:38,888 --> 00:57:40,890
an Uncle Tom.
810
00:57:42,592 --> 00:57:45,938
After I wrote a letter
to the editor of Playboy,
811
00:57:45,962 --> 00:57:49,875
taking issue with a 1986
article by Hodding Carter,
812
00:57:49,899 --> 00:57:54,780
called "Reagan and
the Revival of Racism",
813
00:57:54,804 --> 00:57:59,718
Carter responded as follows:
814
00:57:59,742 --> 00:58:07,742
[♪]
815
00:58:17,627 --> 00:58:21,574
Not a single civil rights
leader objected to this
816
00:58:21,598 --> 00:58:24,667
nakedly racist language.
817
00:58:28,171 --> 00:58:30,149
MICHAEL: On the personal side,
your marriage was strained
818
00:58:30,173 --> 00:58:31,684
at this point?
819
00:58:31,708 --> 00:58:34,186
It is one of those things
and I just I didn't think
820
00:58:34,210 --> 00:58:38,023
it was going to work.
821
00:58:38,047 --> 00:58:40,183
I think many people
go through that.
822
00:58:41,150 --> 00:58:45,898
But what do you think
was the reason in this case?
823
00:58:45,922 --> 00:58:51,504
I, the, it just wasn't there,
and I think that
824
00:58:51,528 --> 00:58:57,009
you have to be honest with yourself,
and not wait
825
00:58:57,033 --> 00:58:59,945
until it deteriorates,
or you do harm to somebody
826
00:58:59,969 --> 00:59:02,681
who did you no harm.
827
00:59:02,705 --> 00:59:05,651
MICHAEL: I can imagine
how difficult it must have been,
828
00:59:05,675 --> 00:59:07,052
for all three of you.
829
00:59:07,076 --> 00:59:10,747
Yeah, it was... You know,
you live with it.
830
00:59:14,117 --> 00:59:16,562
CLARENCE: Jamal
came to live with me.
831
00:59:16,586 --> 00:59:18,564
His mother thought
it would be best
832
00:59:18,588 --> 00:59:21,658
for me to have
primary responsibility.
833
00:59:24,060 --> 00:59:27,606
Being with him, was my happy place,
being at home with him.
834
00:59:27,630 --> 00:59:35,630
[♪]
835
00:59:36,105 --> 00:59:40,052
MICHAEL: How did you first hear
that your grandfather was dying?
836
00:59:40,076 --> 00:59:42,321
Well I had been,
I don't know why how we get
837
00:59:42,345 --> 00:59:44,990
so busy in D.C.
838
00:59:45,014 --> 00:59:50,253
I totally regret not going home more,
I just regret it.
839
00:59:53,289 --> 00:59:56,835
CLARENCE: I was with my brother,
and um,
840
00:59:56,859 --> 00:59:59,762
he told me my
grandfather had died.
841
01:00:02,699 --> 01:00:04,677
And that was like,
842
01:00:04,701 --> 01:00:06,679
I think from then on
I was in a bit of a fog.
843
01:00:06,703 --> 01:00:08,371
It was really horrible.
844
01:00:13,176 --> 01:00:17,156
When I got to the funeral,
no sooner did the service begin
845
01:00:17,180 --> 01:00:21,884
than I started to weep
shamelessly and uncontrollably.
846
01:00:25,254 --> 01:00:30,703
Was think of the things I
wish I had done differently.
847
01:00:30,727 --> 01:00:35,207
Why had I spent so much
time arguing with him?
848
01:00:35,231 --> 01:00:39,211
I would never be able to
tell him how right he'd been,
849
01:00:39,235 --> 01:00:43,716
or how much I
admired and loved him.
850
01:00:43,740 --> 01:00:51,190
[♪]
851
01:00:51,214 --> 01:00:54,293
Shortly after my
grandfather's death
852
01:00:54,317 --> 01:00:59,732
my grandmother had a
stroke while lying in bed.
853
01:00:59,756 --> 01:01:05,037
Within an hour or so,
she was dead.
854
01:01:05,061 --> 01:01:07,206
Certainly,
it was like a trap door,
855
01:01:07,230 --> 01:01:10,009
somebody opened the trap door,
and you fell through it.
856
01:01:10,033 --> 01:01:13,846
And there was no foundation.
857
01:01:13,870 --> 01:01:17,216
And by the time I went
back to Washington,
858
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,909
I had thought a lot
more about things.
859
01:01:22,912 --> 01:01:30,062
I would go outside and
gaze at the Capitol Dome.
860
01:01:30,086 --> 01:01:32,398
So,
I'm asking myself why am I doing this?
861
01:01:32,422 --> 01:01:35,734
There is nothing
positive going on,
862
01:01:35,758 --> 01:01:38,103
and I am getting the
heck beat out of me.
863
01:01:38,127 --> 01:01:40,939
I had to then flip
it around a little bit.
864
01:01:40,963 --> 01:01:43,809
For what will you die?
865
01:01:43,833 --> 01:01:47,303
Is there something in
life that you will die for?
866
01:01:49,272 --> 01:01:52,051
What about your principles?
867
01:01:52,075 --> 01:01:56,188
So,
I decided that the principles
868
01:01:56,212 --> 01:01:58,924
on which I was raised,
my grandparents,
869
01:01:58,948 --> 01:02:00,959
the principles of this country,
870
01:02:00,983 --> 01:02:03,920
were worth dying for.
871
01:02:08,925 --> 01:02:13,205
So what are these principles?
872
01:02:13,229 --> 01:02:17,042
I was interested in,
why this government?
873
01:02:17,066 --> 01:02:19,111
Why this government?
874
01:02:19,135 --> 01:02:20,946
Why not a parliamentary system?
875
01:02:20,970 --> 01:02:23,148
Why not a dictatorship?
876
01:02:23,172 --> 01:02:27,119
When Clarence was at EEOC,
one of the best things,
877
01:02:27,143 --> 01:02:28,921
looking back, that he did
878
01:02:28,945 --> 01:02:32,958
was to hire two speech
writers who worked with him
879
01:02:32,982 --> 01:02:36,261
on reading founding documents,
880
01:02:36,285 --> 01:02:40,299
and understanding
American exceptionalism.
881
01:02:40,323 --> 01:02:46,772
So,
John Marini and Ken Masugi were anchors
882
01:02:46,796 --> 01:02:51,310
for what came out to
be his jurisprudence.
883
01:02:51,334 --> 01:02:56,749
And we would literally spend
hours discussing the founding.
884
01:02:56,773 --> 01:02:58,517
And then they would
give me reading materials,
885
01:02:58,541 --> 01:03:02,121
and we would write articles,
and we would go off to
886
01:03:02,145 --> 01:03:04,957
American Political
Science Association events,
887
01:03:04,981 --> 01:03:08,861
and argue with positivists,
and libertarians.
888
01:03:08,885 --> 01:03:09,895
Oh, gosh.
889
01:03:09,919 --> 01:03:11,363
It was,
now that was a lot of fun,
890
01:03:11,387 --> 01:03:17,269
in the sea of all this stuff.
891
01:03:17,293 --> 01:03:21,406
Thomas Jefferson
had written in 1776
892
01:03:21,430 --> 01:03:24,810
"All men are created equal.
893
01:03:24,834 --> 01:03:26,478
They are endowed
by their creator
894
01:03:26,502 --> 01:03:30,115
with certain
unalienable rights."
895
01:03:30,139 --> 01:03:32,942
That's natural
law in a nutshell.
896
01:03:37,213 --> 01:03:39,925
How then could a country
founded on these principles
897
01:03:39,949 --> 01:03:43,962
have permitted slavery
and segregation to exist?
898
01:03:43,986 --> 01:03:47,266
The answer was that it couldn't,
899
01:03:47,290 --> 01:03:50,369
not without being
untrue to its own ideals.
900
01:03:50,393 --> 01:03:58,210
[♪]
901
01:03:58,234 --> 01:04:00,913
I was looking for
a way of thinking,
902
01:04:00,937 --> 01:04:04,950
a set of ideals that fundamentally,
at its core,
903
01:04:04,974 --> 01:04:08,887
said slavery is wrong,
at its core...
904
01:04:08,911 --> 01:04:10,989
Which natural
law of course does.
905
01:04:11,013 --> 01:04:18,287
[♪]
906
01:04:20,289 --> 01:04:23,302
I was scheduled to go up
to New York to a meeting,
907
01:04:23,326 --> 01:04:26,271
and she happened to be there.
908
01:04:26,295 --> 01:04:30,042
GINNI THOMAS: We
met in 1986 at a conference
909
01:04:30,066 --> 01:04:33,145
on how long does America
need race preference policies
910
01:04:33,169 --> 01:04:34,847
to get over slavery.
911
01:04:34,871 --> 01:04:39,484
And his experiences were so resonant,
and so powerful,
912
01:04:39,508 --> 01:04:42,554
and so genuine.
913
01:04:42,578 --> 01:04:44,480
I was struck by him.
914
01:04:47,250 --> 01:04:51,630
CLARENCE: She was a gift
from God that I had prayed for.
915
01:04:51,654 --> 01:04:53,966
And, you know then I was iffy,
916
01:04:53,990 --> 01:04:57,402
because I started
questioning God's package.
917
01:04:57,426 --> 01:04:58,971
You know,
like what are you doing?
918
01:04:58,995 --> 01:05:01,974
(Chuckles)
919
01:05:01,998 --> 01:05:04,042
You pray for God to
send you someone,
920
01:05:04,066 --> 01:05:07,880
he sends you someone,
and you say "Oh but she's white"
921
01:05:07,904 --> 01:05:08,947
or "she's younger."
922
01:05:08,971 --> 01:05:10,048
He's sent you someone.
923
01:05:10,072 --> 01:05:11,617
What are you talking about?
924
01:05:11,641 --> 01:05:13,118
So that was the end of that,
925
01:05:13,142 --> 01:05:18,523
and she has been a
fabulous gift from God.
926
01:05:18,547 --> 01:05:26,547
[♪]
927
01:05:43,239 --> 01:05:46,351
George H.W.
Bush's transition team
928
01:05:46,375 --> 01:05:51,223
asked if I would be interested
in becoming a federal judge?
929
01:05:51,247 --> 01:05:53,558
"That's a job for old people",
I said.
930
01:05:53,582 --> 01:05:59,598
I can't see myself spending
the rest of my life as a judge."
931
01:05:59,622 --> 01:06:02,401
They asked me to
talk to Larry Silberman
932
01:06:02,425 --> 01:06:05,437
who was a judge
on the D.C. Circuit.
933
01:06:05,461 --> 01:06:07,606
I said "Larry,
I don't want a lifetime appointment."
934
01:06:07,630 --> 01:06:09,174
He said "Clarence,
it's not slavery.
935
01:06:09,198 --> 01:06:12,210
You can leave if
you don't like it."
936
01:06:12,234 --> 01:06:20,234
[♪]
937
01:06:21,344 --> 01:06:23,722
But once I got to
the D.C. Circuit,
938
01:06:23,746 --> 01:06:25,324
I really enjoyed it.
939
01:06:25,348 --> 01:06:26,391
I enjoyed the work.
940
01:06:26,415 --> 01:06:28,560
I liked the people.
941
01:06:28,584 --> 01:06:31,430
Virginia worked across
the street from me.
942
01:06:31,454 --> 01:06:33,732
So we commuted in every day
943
01:06:33,756 --> 01:06:35,634
and we really enjoyed
our little house.
944
01:06:35,658 --> 01:06:37,636
We really enjoyed our projects.
945
01:06:37,660 --> 01:06:41,406
We enjoyed our anonymity,
and our time together.
946
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:43,608
Here at home the search is
on for a Supreme Court nominee
947
01:06:43,632 --> 01:06:46,378
With the retirement of
Justice Thurgood Marshall.
948
01:06:46,402 --> 01:06:51,116
CLARENCE: All I know is
that Justice Marshall retired,
949
01:06:51,140 --> 01:06:53,352
and that was a shock.
950
01:06:53,376 --> 01:06:55,354
So, I went to work on Sunday,
951
01:06:55,378 --> 01:06:58,557
one of my law clerks
was all up in arms,
952
01:06:58,581 --> 01:07:01,193
and he says
"Kennebunkport is on the line."
953
01:07:01,217 --> 01:07:03,495
It was the president telling
me to come up on Monday,
954
01:07:03,519 --> 01:07:08,400
to have lunch to discuss
this Supreme Court thing.
955
01:07:08,424 --> 01:07:11,503
PRESIDENT BUSH: I am
very pleased to announce
956
01:07:11,527 --> 01:07:14,706
that I will nominate
Judge Clarence Thomas
957
01:07:14,730 --> 01:07:18,710
to serve as associate justice of
the United States Supreme Court.
958
01:07:18,734 --> 01:07:22,414
What do you say to critics who
say the only reason you're being
959
01:07:22,438 --> 01:07:25,751
picked is because you're black?
960
01:07:25,775 --> 01:07:28,053
I think a lot worse
things have been said.
961
01:07:28,077 --> 01:07:31,757
I disagree with that,
but I'll have to live with it.
962
01:07:31,781 --> 01:07:33,191
PRESIDENT: Refer
them to the President.
963
01:07:33,215 --> 01:07:34,559
[Laughter]
964
01:07:34,583 --> 01:07:36,161
How about that for an answer?
965
01:07:36,185 --> 01:07:37,662
Well,
I'll also say I didn't make the selection.
966
01:07:37,686 --> 01:07:41,800
CLARENCE: I mean the
attacks started immediately.
967
01:07:41,824 --> 01:07:44,770
And the things
they accuse you of...
968
01:07:44,794 --> 01:07:50,342
They accuse of everything but murder,
I guess.
969
01:07:50,366 --> 01:07:52,577
NEWSCASTER 1: The Senate Majority Leader,
George Mitchell told reporters
970
01:07:52,601 --> 01:07:54,413
that the nomination
shows that President Bush
971
01:07:54,437 --> 01:07:56,214
is against quotas
for every position
972
01:07:56,238 --> 01:07:57,649
except the Supreme Court.
973
01:07:57,673 --> 01:08:00,485
NEWSCASTER 2: Judge
Thomas praises Louis Farrakhan,
974
01:08:00,509 --> 01:08:04,089
the Black Muslim minister
notorious for his pro-Hitler,
975
01:08:04,113 --> 01:08:06,058
anti-Semitic rhetoric.
976
01:08:06,082 --> 01:08:09,094
NEWSCASTER 3: Thomas'
strict Catholic education terrifies
977
01:08:09,118 --> 01:08:14,066
abortion rights groups afraid
of more abortion restrictions.
978
01:08:14,090 --> 01:08:18,270
MICHAEL: Did you meet with
the board members of the NAACP?
979
01:08:18,294 --> 01:08:20,539
They said they were
going to be noncommittal,
980
01:08:20,563 --> 01:08:22,307
and were not going to oppose me.
981
01:08:22,331 --> 01:08:25,310
Well,
shortly after that they opposed me.
982
01:08:25,334 --> 01:08:29,114
His inconsistent views
on civil rights policies,
983
01:08:29,138 --> 01:08:32,150
which make him an
unpredictable element
984
01:08:32,174 --> 01:08:36,788
in an increasingly radical
and conservative court.
985
01:08:36,812 --> 01:08:38,557
And what I was told by friends,
986
01:08:38,581 --> 01:08:42,194
who gave me a copy of
the AFLCIO's letter to them,
987
01:08:42,218 --> 01:08:45,797
requiring them to oppose me.
988
01:08:45,821 --> 01:08:47,632
What I was told was
that they needed cover
989
01:08:47,656 --> 01:08:51,103
for the women's
groups to oppose me.
990
01:08:51,127 --> 01:08:54,139
So they needed
the NAACP out front.
991
01:08:54,163 --> 01:08:56,808
ACTIVIST: Write your
senators and representatives,
992
01:08:56,832 --> 01:08:59,878
tell them Clarence
Thomas is unacceptable.
993
01:08:59,902 --> 01:09:02,714
He has indicated that
he believes in natural law
994
01:09:02,738 --> 01:09:06,151
and he does not
believe in privacy.
995
01:09:06,175 --> 01:09:09,321
We don't need a lot of
questions to be asked
996
01:09:09,345 --> 01:09:13,758
before we Bork this guy,
we simply immediately Bork him.
997
01:09:13,782 --> 01:09:16,128
CALL ROOM: We want you to
organize pickets of their offices,
998
01:09:16,152 --> 01:09:18,563
follow them from the
airport to their supermarket.
999
01:09:18,587 --> 01:09:20,398
PATRICIA IRELAND: There is
substantial opposition to Clarence Thomas.
1000
01:09:20,422 --> 01:09:23,902
His history of supporting
a judicial philosophy
1001
01:09:23,926 --> 01:09:25,670
that is really out of step
with the Bill of Rights
1002
01:09:25,694 --> 01:09:29,841
and the Constitution.
1003
01:09:29,865 --> 01:09:32,777
CLARENCE: We know
exactly what's going on here,
1004
01:09:32,801 --> 01:09:35,881
and to pretend that it is
for some other reason, stop.
1005
01:09:35,905 --> 01:09:39,708
Do I have like "stupid"
written on the back of my shirt?
1006
01:09:41,177 --> 01:09:43,788
I mean, come on,
we know what this is all about.
1007
01:09:43,812 --> 01:09:45,457
This isn't about what
they say it's about,
1008
01:09:45,481 --> 01:09:47,559
so people should
just tell the truth.
1009
01:09:47,583 --> 01:09:49,294
This is the wrong black guy.
1010
01:09:49,318 --> 01:09:50,595
He has to be destroyed.
1011
01:09:50,619 --> 01:09:54,690
Then now at least we
are honest with each other.
1012
01:09:58,294 --> 01:10:00,763
[cameras clicking]
1013
01:10:08,437 --> 01:10:12,651
GINNI THOMAS: He knew he
was going into the trial of his life
1014
01:10:12,675 --> 01:10:15,744
with the Senate run
by the Democrats.
1015
01:10:18,647 --> 01:10:21,717
SENATOR BIDEN: The
hearing will come to order.
1016
01:10:22,985 --> 01:10:26,255
GINNI THOMAS: We
knew it was in the lion's den.
1017
01:10:28,524 --> 01:10:30,835
SENATOR BIDEN: Good morning,
Judge.
1018
01:10:30,859 --> 01:10:32,962
Welcome to the blinding lights.
1019
01:10:36,599 --> 01:10:39,678
Finding out what you
mean when you say
1020
01:10:39,702 --> 01:10:41,846
that you would apply
the natural law philosophy
1021
01:10:41,870 --> 01:10:44,916
to the Constitution is,
in my view,
1022
01:10:44,940 --> 01:10:48,520
the single most important
task of this committee.
1023
01:10:48,544 --> 01:10:51,223
MICHAEL: Senator Biden
was very focused natural law.
1024
01:10:51,247 --> 01:10:56,361
Who knows,
I have no idea what he was talking about.
1025
01:10:56,385 --> 01:10:58,630
SENATOR BIDEN: I just
want to make sure we all know
1026
01:10:58,654 --> 01:11:01,933
That you and I know, at least,
what we are talking about here.
1027
01:11:01,957 --> 01:11:06,771
There is a fervent and
aggressive school of thought
1028
01:11:06,795 --> 01:11:12,444
that wishes to see natural law
further inform the Constitution
1029
01:11:12,468 --> 01:11:17,682
Argued against by the positivists,
led by Judge Bork.
1030
01:11:17,706 --> 01:11:20,452
Now again,
that may be lost on all the people,
1031
01:11:20,476 --> 01:11:24,856
you know and I know
what we are talking about.
1032
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:26,925
CLARENCE: I have to be
perfectly honest with you.
1033
01:11:26,949 --> 01:11:30,962
You sit there,
and you have no idea
1034
01:11:30,986 --> 01:11:34,766
what they are talking about.
1035
01:11:34,790 --> 01:11:37,502
All I know is that he was
asking me these questions
1036
01:11:37,526 --> 01:11:42,307
Someone may apply it in a way,
like Moore,
1037
01:11:42,331 --> 01:11:46,378
who leads him in a direction that is,
quote, "liberal."
1038
01:11:46,402 --> 01:11:48,880
You may apply it in a way
that leads you in a direction
1039
01:11:48,904 --> 01:11:52,884
that is conservative,
or you may,
1040
01:11:52,908 --> 01:11:57,722
like many argue,
not apply it at all.
1041
01:11:57,746 --> 01:12:01,026
But it is a fundamental question
1042
01:12:01,050 --> 01:12:03,561
that is going to be
almost impossible
1043
01:12:03,585 --> 01:12:07,499
for non-lawyers to
grasp in an exchange,
1044
01:12:07,523 --> 01:12:11,036
but you know and I know it is a big,
big deal,
1045
01:12:11,060 --> 01:12:14,839
CLARENCE: One of the
things you do in hearings
1046
01:12:14,863 --> 01:12:18,843
is you have to sit there
and look attentively at people
1047
01:12:18,867 --> 01:12:22,647
you know have no idea
what they're talking about.
1048
01:12:22,671 --> 01:12:24,516
And it was fine.
1049
01:12:24,540 --> 01:12:26,518
I understood what
he was trying to do.
1050
01:12:26,542 --> 01:12:29,421
I didn't really appreciate it.
1051
01:12:29,445 --> 01:12:33,058
Natural law was nothing
more than a way of tricking me
1052
01:12:33,082 --> 01:12:36,061
into talking about abortion,
1053
01:12:36,085 --> 01:12:38,997
since many Catholic
moral philosophers
1054
01:12:39,021 --> 01:12:43,034
saw the two things
as intimately related.
1055
01:12:43,058 --> 01:12:46,871
But my interest in
natural law was different.
1056
01:12:46,895 --> 01:12:51,710
SENATOR BIDEN: Those who
subscribe to this moral-code view
1057
01:12:51,734 --> 01:12:53,712
of natural law
call into question
1058
01:12:53,736 --> 01:12:57,415
a wide range of
personal and family rights,
1059
01:12:57,439 --> 01:12:59,617
from reproductive freedom
1060
01:12:59,641 --> 01:13:03,088
to each individual's
choice over procreation.
1061
01:13:03,112 --> 01:13:11,112
[♪]
1062
01:13:12,521 --> 01:13:15,700
NEWSCASTER: On day two,
Judiciary committee Democrats tried again,
1063
01:13:15,724 --> 01:13:17,102
but again couldn't
convince Clarence Thomas
1064
01:13:17,126 --> 01:13:19,037
of their need to know
how he would rule
1065
01:13:19,061 --> 01:13:22,040
on a woman's
right to an abortion.
1066
01:13:22,064 --> 01:13:27,112
REPORTER: How are you?
Are you holding up okay?
1067
01:13:27,136 --> 01:13:29,514
NEWSCASTER: Clarence Thomas
signaled he is holding up just fine
1068
01:13:29,538 --> 01:13:31,449
as he went before the
Senate Judiciary committee
1069
01:13:31,473 --> 01:13:32,717
for a third day.
1070
01:13:32,741 --> 01:13:36,554
Abortion, once again,
topped the agenda.
1071
01:13:36,578 --> 01:13:40,058
CLARENCE: Most of my
opponents on the judiciary committee
1072
01:13:40,082 --> 01:13:41,860
cared about only one thing.
1073
01:13:41,884 --> 01:13:45,063
How would I rule
on abortion rights?
1074
01:13:45,087 --> 01:13:46,865
You really didn't matter,
1075
01:13:46,889 --> 01:13:49,067
and your life didn't matter.
1076
01:13:49,091 --> 01:13:52,570
What mattered was
what they wanted,
1077
01:13:52,594 --> 01:13:56,841
and what they wanted
was this particular issue.
1078
01:13:56,865 --> 01:14:00,178
SENATOR LEAHY: Have you
ever had discussion of Roe v. Wade,
1079
01:14:00,202 --> 01:14:04,482
other than in this room?
1080
01:14:04,506 --> 01:14:07,552
JUDGE THOMAS: Only,
I guess, Senator, in the fact
1081
01:14:07,576 --> 01:14:09,988
that in the most general sense.
1082
01:14:10,012 --> 01:14:11,623
If you are asking
me whether or not
1083
01:14:11,647 --> 01:14:13,558
I have ever debated
the contents of it,
1084
01:14:13,582 --> 01:14:16,027
the answer to that is no,
Senator.
1085
01:14:16,051 --> 01:14:18,663
SENATOR LEAHY: Well,
with all due respect, Judge,
1086
01:14:18,687 --> 01:14:23,001
I have some difficulty
with your answer.
1087
01:14:23,025 --> 01:14:27,005
You ask us to believe that an
intelligent and outspoken person
1088
01:14:27,029 --> 01:14:30,942
like yourself has never
discussed Roe v. Wade
1089
01:14:30,966 --> 01:14:33,711
with another human being?
1090
01:14:33,735 --> 01:14:36,781
MICHAEL: They refused to believe
you had not discussed Roe v. Wade.
1091
01:14:36,805 --> 01:14:38,082
Well you know what?
1092
01:14:38,106 --> 01:14:39,484
They should...
1093
01:14:39,508 --> 01:14:41,719
They refuse to
believe a lot of things.
1094
01:14:41,743 --> 01:14:44,155
It's really... Isn't
that fascinating?
1095
01:14:44,179 --> 01:14:46,691
I had to,
I had to have discussed it
1096
01:14:46,715 --> 01:14:48,726
because they wanted me
to had to have discussed it.
1097
01:14:48,750 --> 01:14:51,863
It goes back to thing
about affirmative action.
1098
01:14:51,887 --> 01:14:53,932
You have to believe
in affirmative action,
1099
01:14:53,956 --> 01:14:56,468
because we think you ought
to believe in affirmative action.
1100
01:14:56,492 --> 01:14:59,504
Well how is that
different from slavery?
1101
01:14:59,528 --> 01:15:01,539
How is that different
from segregation?
1102
01:15:01,563 --> 01:15:02,841
How is that different
from being told
1103
01:15:02,865 --> 01:15:04,676
"you can't walk
across that park"?
1104
01:15:04,700 --> 01:15:06,110
"Oh,
you can't think those thoughts."
1105
01:15:06,134 --> 01:15:07,178
How is that any different?
1106
01:15:07,202 --> 01:15:10,882
I'd prefer to be
excluded from the park
1107
01:15:10,906 --> 01:15:13,618
because I can live
my life quite freely
1108
01:15:13,642 --> 01:15:16,020
without having
set foot in a park.
1109
01:15:16,044 --> 01:15:17,088
But you can't live it freely
1110
01:15:17,112 --> 01:15:20,658
without having
your own thoughts.
1111
01:15:20,682 --> 01:15:24,195
I felt as though in my life,
1112
01:15:24,219 --> 01:15:29,968
I had been looking
at the wrong people,
1113
01:15:29,992 --> 01:15:33,738
as the people who would
be problematic toward me.
1114
01:15:33,762 --> 01:15:37,642
We were told that "Oh
it's going to be the bigot
1115
01:15:37,666 --> 01:15:39,010
in the pickup truck.
1116
01:15:39,034 --> 01:15:41,946
It's going be the Klansman.
1117
01:15:41,970 --> 01:15:45,116
It's going to be
the rural sheriff."
1118
01:15:45,140 --> 01:15:46,985
And I'm not saying
that there weren't
1119
01:15:47,009 --> 01:15:49,787
some of those who were bad,
1120
01:15:49,811 --> 01:15:53,224
but it turned out,
that through all of that,
1121
01:15:53,248 --> 01:15:56,127
ultimately the
biggest impediment,
1122
01:15:56,151 --> 01:15:58,997
was the modern day liberal.
1123
01:15:59,021 --> 01:16:03,801
That they were the ones who
would discount all those things,
1124
01:16:03,825 --> 01:16:06,804
because they have one issue,
1125
01:16:06,828 --> 01:16:08,840
or because they can
they have the authority,
1126
01:16:08,864 --> 01:16:11,099
the power to caricature you.
1127
01:16:13,035 --> 01:16:14,546
Thank you all,
and thank you and your family
1128
01:16:14,570 --> 01:16:17,682
We will recess for five minutes.
1129
01:16:17,706 --> 01:16:25,706
[♪]
1130
01:16:31,153 --> 01:16:33,131
CLARENCE: We
were just exhausted.
1131
01:16:33,155 --> 01:16:36,834
So, we went over just briefly,
and it was out of season
1132
01:16:36,858 --> 01:16:38,970
to Cape May,
1133
01:16:38,994 --> 01:16:41,306
just to get away from
the Washington area.
1134
01:16:41,330 --> 01:16:49,330
[♪]
1135
01:16:58,146 --> 01:17:00,258
We had just gotten back,
1136
01:17:00,282 --> 01:17:05,196
and that's when all
heck broke loose.
1137
01:17:05,220 --> 01:17:07,732
GINNI THOMAS: A call
came from the White House
1138
01:17:07,756 --> 01:17:10,935
that we were going to
be visited by the FBI.
1139
01:17:10,959 --> 01:17:12,804
MICHAEL: What was that
like when the FBI came?
1140
01:17:12,828 --> 01:17:14,305
As soon as they stepped in,
they said
1141
01:17:14,329 --> 01:17:15,807
"do you know Anita Hill?"
1142
01:17:15,831 --> 01:17:19,243
And then they said "Did
you ever try to go out with her
1143
01:17:19,267 --> 01:17:22,280
or did you ever discuss
pornographic stuff with her?"
1144
01:17:22,304 --> 01:17:24,115
"No, no way."
1145
01:17:24,139 --> 01:17:25,984
And that was,
I said "you got to be kidding me."
1146
01:17:26,008 --> 01:17:28,219
And then it's just like,
you're deflated.
1147
01:17:28,243 --> 01:17:30,955
You said "This is
where we're going now."
1148
01:17:30,979 --> 01:17:34,349
And, so I maybe,
I felt more like Joseph K in The Trial,
1149
01:17:38,754 --> 01:17:41,032
that suddenly you're
minding your business,
1150
01:17:41,056 --> 01:17:43,759
and you were
arrested one morning.
1151
01:17:47,663 --> 01:17:51,376
You're entering
an unknown world.
1152
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:54,136
Well, this obviously isn't
anything of any importance.
1153
01:17:56,672 --> 01:17:58,383
Quite honestly,
I can't remember a single offense
1154
01:17:58,407 --> 01:18:00,375
that could be
charged against me.
1155
01:18:02,310 --> 01:18:05,914
It's obviously a mistake,
something very trivial.
1156
01:18:08,684 --> 01:18:11,929
CLARENCE: I have no idea
what I was supposed to have done.
1157
01:18:11,953 --> 01:18:14,999
I'm sorry to disappoint
you but I am afraid
1158
01:18:15,023 --> 01:18:16,234
that you wont find any
subversive literature
1159
01:18:16,258 --> 01:18:17,335
or pornography.
1160
01:18:17,359 --> 01:18:18,670
Don't touch those record albums!
1161
01:18:18,694 --> 01:18:21,172
AGENT 1: What is this thing?
1162
01:18:21,196 --> 01:18:24,008
- My phonograph.
- AGENT 2: Well, what's this?
1163
01:18:24,032 --> 01:18:26,344
CLARENCE: The FBI
called back that afternoon,
1164
01:18:26,368 --> 01:18:29,681
they said that "This
is uncorroborated.
1165
01:18:29,705 --> 01:18:32,250
There are no facts,"
1166
01:18:32,274 --> 01:18:34,810
that "We don't think
there's anything to it."
1167
01:18:52,260 --> 01:18:54,305
NINA TOTENBERG: In an affidavit
filed with Senate Judiciary committee
1168
01:18:54,329 --> 01:18:56,808
law professor Anita Hill
1169
01:18:56,832 --> 01:18:59,210
said Thomas began
asking her out socially
1170
01:18:59,234 --> 01:19:00,878
and refused to
accept her explanation
1171
01:19:00,902 --> 01:19:02,146
that she did not
think it appropriate
1172
01:19:02,170 --> 01:19:04,348
to go out with her boss.
1173
01:19:04,372 --> 01:19:07,218
The relationship, she said,
became even more strained
1174
01:19:07,242 --> 01:19:12,990
when Thomas, in work situations,
began to discuss sex.
1175
01:19:13,014 --> 01:19:14,192
It was leaked.
1176
01:19:14,216 --> 01:19:17,128
This was a, this was a crime.
1177
01:19:17,152 --> 01:19:20,498
This was a criminal
act that did this.
1178
01:19:20,522 --> 01:19:25,470
But in any case, it was leaked,
and that changed everything.
1179
01:19:25,494 --> 01:19:29,874
REPORTER: Judge, do you think
you are being treated unfairly, sir?
1180
01:19:29,898 --> 01:19:33,211
MICHAEL: After the leak the
media just camped out at your house?
1181
01:19:33,235 --> 01:19:35,146
CLARENCE: Yeah, they stayed,
and then whenever we left,
1182
01:19:35,170 --> 01:19:36,948
there would be a chase car,
1183
01:19:36,972 --> 01:19:40,017
and there was a
motorcycle behind us.
1184
01:19:40,041 --> 01:19:43,121
So,
you're literally under siege.
1185
01:19:43,145 --> 01:19:45,423
NEWSCASTER: The opponents of
Supreme Court nominee Clarence Thomas
1186
01:19:45,447 --> 01:19:48,059
want to delay a vote
on this confirmation
1187
01:19:48,083 --> 01:19:51,062
because of charges
of sexual harassment.
1188
01:19:51,086 --> 01:19:53,231
In light of these revelations
which we consider to be
1189
01:19:53,255 --> 01:19:55,333
very, very serious,
1190
01:19:55,357 --> 01:19:58,169
then at the minimum
we need to see a delay,
1191
01:19:58,193 --> 01:20:00,805
a delay of this nomination.
1192
01:20:00,829 --> 01:20:02,273
PROTESTERS: Hey! Hey!
1193
01:20:02,297 --> 01:20:03,374
Ho! Ho!
1194
01:20:03,398 --> 01:20:04,809
Anita Hill yes!
1195
01:20:04,833 --> 01:20:07,945
Thomas no!
1196
01:20:07,969 --> 01:20:09,147
NEWSCASTER:
Several interest groups
1197
01:20:09,171 --> 01:20:11,082
including the Women's
Legal Defense Fund
1198
01:20:11,106 --> 01:20:12,017
and the National
Organization for Women
1199
01:20:12,041 --> 01:20:14,252
are also calling for a delay.
1200
01:20:14,276 --> 01:20:16,954
CLARENCE: You worry about,
what can they convince people
1201
01:20:16,978 --> 01:20:18,322
that I have done.
1202
01:20:18,346 --> 01:20:22,160
You got all these PR firms,
and slick law firms,
1203
01:20:22,184 --> 01:20:27,064
I'm just sitting there,
I mean it's my wife and me.
1204
01:20:27,088 --> 01:20:29,801
We're like at home,
1205
01:20:29,825 --> 01:20:34,205
and we have a couple of prayer
partners who would come over.
1206
01:20:34,229 --> 01:20:37,375
GINNI THOMAS: And
they helped us in our home,
1207
01:20:37,399 --> 01:20:41,078
read through the Bible,
and put on the armor of God
1208
01:20:41,102 --> 01:20:45,950
because it felt like the
demons were loose.
1209
01:20:45,974 --> 01:20:48,452
NEWSCASTER: The eroding
support for Thomas finally forced
1210
01:20:48,476 --> 01:20:51,989
Republicans to admit a
Tuesday vote would be a bad idea
1211
01:20:52,013 --> 01:20:54,992
and there was unanimous
consent to wait until next Tuesday
1212
01:20:55,016 --> 01:20:58,863
to allow a full hearing on the
allegations in the meantime.
1213
01:20:58,887 --> 01:21:00,097
But Thomas's key backer
1214
01:21:00,121 --> 01:21:01,599
delivered an
impassioned prediction
1215
01:21:01,623 --> 01:21:04,135
of what a public
hearing would turn into.
1216
01:21:04,159 --> 01:21:06,404
SENATOR DANFORTH: Oh,
it's going to be a field day.
1217
01:21:06,428 --> 01:21:10,141
Read all about it!
1218
01:21:10,165 --> 01:21:12,276
Tune in tomorrow,
1219
01:21:12,300 --> 01:21:16,047
and every day for
the next seven days
1220
01:21:16,071 --> 01:21:19,083
to get everything and anything
1221
01:21:19,107 --> 01:21:22,611
that anybody wants to say
about Clarence Thomas!
1222
01:21:30,552 --> 01:21:33,631
[mantle being struck]
1223
01:21:33,655 --> 01:21:36,091
SENATOR BIDEN: The
hearing will come to order.
1224
01:21:38,126 --> 01:21:45,076
Mr. Chairman, Senator Thurmond,
members of the committee,
1225
01:21:45,100 --> 01:21:50,481
I welcome the opportunity
to clear my name today.
1226
01:21:50,505 --> 01:21:53,150
The first I learned
of the allegations
1227
01:21:53,174 --> 01:22:00,424
by Prof. Anita Hill was on September 25,
1991,
1228
01:22:00,448 --> 01:22:06,597
when the FBI came to my home
to investigate her allegations.
1229
01:22:06,621 --> 01:22:14,621
I was shocked, surprised, hurt,
and enormously saddened.
1230
01:22:15,697 --> 01:22:20,344
I have not been the
same since that day.
1231
01:22:20,368 --> 01:22:24,649
Let me describe my
relationship with Anita Hill.
1232
01:22:24,673 --> 01:22:29,253
In 1981,
after I went to the Department of Education
1233
01:22:29,277 --> 01:22:33,257
as an Assistant Secretary
in the Office of Civil Rights,
1234
01:22:33,281 --> 01:22:36,394
I hired Anita Hill.
1235
01:22:36,418 --> 01:22:39,130
Anita Hill was an
attorney advisor
1236
01:22:39,154 --> 01:22:42,133
who worked directly with me.
1237
01:22:42,157 --> 01:22:46,604
Anita Hill joined me at EEOC.
1238
01:22:46,628 --> 01:22:50,508
At EEOC,
our relationship was more distant.
1239
01:22:50,532 --> 01:22:53,277
And our contacts less frequent.
1240
01:22:53,301 --> 01:22:58,382
Although I did not see Anita
Hill often after she left EEOC,
1241
01:22:58,406 --> 01:23:02,320
I did see her on 1
or 2 subsequent visits
1242
01:23:02,344 --> 01:23:06,190
to Tulsa,
Oklahoma and on one visit,
1243
01:23:06,214 --> 01:23:09,727
I believe she drove
me to the airport.
1244
01:23:09,751 --> 01:23:14,532
I find it particularly troubling
that she never raised any hint
1245
01:23:14,556 --> 01:23:17,635
that she was
uncomfortable with me.
1246
01:23:17,659 --> 01:23:20,004
She did not raise or mention it
1247
01:23:20,028 --> 01:23:22,740
when considering
moving with me to EEOC
1248
01:23:22,764 --> 01:23:25,543
from the Department of Education
1249
01:23:25,567 --> 01:23:29,347
and she never raised it
with me when she left EEOC
1250
01:23:29,371 --> 01:23:32,750
and was moving on in her life.
1251
01:23:32,774 --> 01:23:36,387
But,
I have not said or done the things
1252
01:23:36,411 --> 01:23:40,024
that Anita Hill has alleged.
1253
01:23:40,048 --> 01:23:45,763
God has gotten me through
the days since September 25th
1254
01:23:45,787 --> 01:23:49,133
and he is my judge.
1255
01:23:49,157 --> 01:23:53,037
GINNI THOMAS: I have to tell
you from my perch behind him.
1256
01:23:53,061 --> 01:23:57,475
I was just watching the senators
and feeling rage towards them.
1257
01:23:57,499 --> 01:24:01,212
And I especially focused
on Senator Kennedy,
1258
01:24:01,236 --> 01:24:04,348
and the things that I knew
he had done in his life,
1259
01:24:04,372 --> 01:24:07,585
and the nerve of any
of this to come out
1260
01:24:07,609 --> 01:24:10,087
to a man like I know and I love.
1261
01:24:10,111 --> 01:24:16,093
JUDGE Thomas: Mr. Chairman, I have never,
in all my life, felt such hurt,
1262
01:24:16,117 --> 01:24:20,464
such pain, such agony.
1263
01:24:20,488 --> 01:24:24,268
My family and I have
been done a grave
1264
01:24:24,292 --> 01:24:28,406
and irreparable injustice.
1265
01:24:28,430 --> 01:24:30,341
SENATOR BIDEN: Thank you, Judge.
1266
01:24:30,365 --> 01:24:36,680
The hearing is in
recess for 5 minutes.
1267
01:24:36,704 --> 01:24:38,249
MICHAEL: So, then you left,
and went back home.
1268
01:24:38,273 --> 01:24:39,683
Yeah.
1269
01:24:39,707 --> 01:24:42,119
MICHAEL: And
Anita Hill testified.
1270
01:24:42,143 --> 01:24:43,220
Did you watch that?
1271
01:24:43,244 --> 01:24:45,623
CLARENCE: Oh, God, no.
1272
01:24:45,647 --> 01:24:47,391
SENATOR BIDEN: Professor,
do you swear to tell the whole truth
1273
01:24:47,415 --> 01:24:49,527
and nothing but the truth,
so help you, God?
1274
01:24:49,551 --> 01:24:50,528
PROFESSOR HILL: I do.
1275
01:24:50,552 --> 01:24:54,598
SENATOR BIDEN: Thank you.
1276
01:24:54,622 --> 01:24:58,803
My name is Anita F. Hill,
and I am a professor of law
1277
01:24:58,827 --> 01:25:01,639
at the University of Oklahoma.
1278
01:25:01,663 --> 01:25:04,208
At the Department of Education
1279
01:25:04,232 --> 01:25:09,713
Judge Thomas asked me
to go out socially with him.
1280
01:25:09,737 --> 01:25:13,651
I declined the invitation
to go out socially with him.
1281
01:25:13,675 --> 01:25:18,422
My working relationship
became even more strained
1282
01:25:18,446 --> 01:25:25,496
when Judge Thomas began to
use work situations to discuss sex.
1283
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:28,699
His conversations
were very vivid.
1284
01:25:28,723 --> 01:25:32,136
When Senate staff asked
me about these matters,
1285
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:34,872
I felt that I had
a duty to report.
1286
01:25:34,896 --> 01:25:37,198
I could not keep silent.
1287
01:25:40,502 --> 01:25:43,280
GINNI THOMAS:
This was a kill-shot.
1288
01:25:43,304 --> 01:25:44,582
We could feel it.
1289
01:25:44,606 --> 01:25:46,851
So,
they were coming to destroy my husband,
1290
01:25:46,875 --> 01:25:51,489
not just discredit him or
differ with his point of view.
1291
01:25:51,513 --> 01:25:53,515
This was the kill-shot.
1292
01:25:55,250 --> 01:25:57,628
Can you tell me what
incidences occurred,
1293
01:25:57,652 --> 01:26:01,265
of the ones you have described to us,
occurred in his office?
1294
01:26:01,289 --> 01:26:05,903
Well, I recall specifically that
the incident about the Coke can
1295
01:26:05,927 --> 01:26:10,374
occurred in his
office at the EEOC.
1296
01:26:10,398 --> 01:26:12,576
SENATOR BIDEN: And
what was that incident again?
1297
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:14,745
The incident with
regard to the Coke can,
1298
01:26:14,769 --> 01:26:22,769
PROFESSOR HILL: The incident
involved his going to his desk,
1299
01:26:25,947 --> 01:26:28,859
getting up from a worktable,
going to his desk,
1300
01:26:28,883 --> 01:26:35,890
looking at this can and saying,
"Who put pubic hair on my Coke?"
1301
01:26:37,825 --> 01:26:41,872
GINNI THOMAS: I was the one
that tried to watch what was going on
1302
01:26:41,896 --> 01:26:45,743
for as long as I could
and it looked bad.
1303
01:26:45,767 --> 01:26:48,546
It looked like it
could be credible.
1304
01:26:48,570 --> 01:26:52,283
She was painting
a compelling picture
1305
01:26:52,307 --> 01:26:54,885
and yet coming up
with different iterations
1306
01:26:54,909 --> 01:26:57,955
from what we had been
told her allegations were.
1307
01:26:57,979 --> 01:26:59,757
So it was growing.
1308
01:26:59,781 --> 01:27:03,360
Someone had worked with her,
or she had found new aspects
1309
01:27:03,384 --> 01:27:08,632
of her story that she
was putting out there.
1310
01:27:08,656 --> 01:27:13,304
SENATOR BIDEN: Are there any other
incidents that occurred in his office,
1311
01:27:13,328 --> 01:27:15,573
with just-in his office, period?
1312
01:27:15,597 --> 01:27:19,210
There is... I recall
at least one instance
1313
01:27:19,234 --> 01:27:22,279
in his office at the EEOC
1314
01:27:22,303 --> 01:27:25,950
where he discussed some
pornographic material,
1315
01:27:25,974 --> 01:27:29,520
or he brought up the
substance or the content
1316
01:27:29,544 --> 01:27:32,356
of pornographic material.
1317
01:27:32,380 --> 01:27:34,758
SENATOR BIDEN: Again,
it is difficult, but for the record,
1318
01:27:34,782 --> 01:27:37,695
what substance did he bring
up in this instance, at EEOC,
1319
01:27:37,719 --> 01:27:39,863
in his office?
1320
01:27:39,887 --> 01:27:43,234
PROFESSOR HILL: This
was a reference to an individual
1321
01:27:43,258 --> 01:27:48,872
who had a very large penis
1322
01:27:48,896 --> 01:27:53,377
and he used the name
that he had referred to
1323
01:27:53,401 --> 01:27:56,271
in the pornographic material...
1324
01:27:59,507 --> 01:28:01,352
SENATOR BIDEN: Do
you recall what it was?
1325
01:28:01,376 --> 01:28:02,820
Yes, I do.
1326
01:28:02,844 --> 01:28:09,693
The name that was referred
to was Long Dong Silver.
1327
01:28:09,717 --> 01:28:16,367
GINNI THOMAS: Honestly it was a
nightmare to hear about any of her charges
1328
01:28:16,391 --> 01:28:19,970
whether it was the pubic
hair on the Coke can
1329
01:28:19,994 --> 01:28:23,407
or Long Dong Silver.
1330
01:28:23,431 --> 01:28:25,643
It was all jarring.
1331
01:28:25,667 --> 01:28:30,547
It was all so wrong,
it was so shocking.
1332
01:28:30,571 --> 01:28:35,052
And I'm sure America
was tuning in to C-SPAN.
1333
01:28:35,076 --> 01:28:39,590
And it was horrendous
because it was so untrue.
1334
01:28:39,614 --> 01:28:41,425
CLARENCE: Then she told
me what they were saying,
1335
01:28:41,449 --> 01:28:46,597
I know that didn't happen",
because I'd never known.
1336
01:28:46,621 --> 01:28:48,032
So yeah,
I was tormenting myself,
1337
01:28:48,056 --> 01:28:50,968
trying to dig through
my endless memories.
1338
01:28:50,992 --> 01:28:52,002
Did I do something?
1339
01:28:52,026 --> 01:28:53,804
Did I say something?
1340
01:28:53,828 --> 01:28:55,572
Was it a joke?
1341
01:28:55,596 --> 01:28:57,875
And when they said whatever it was,
they said...
1342
01:28:57,899 --> 01:28:59,510
I said "that didn't happen."
1343
01:28:59,534 --> 01:29:05,482
So,
it was the first relief I felt.
1344
01:29:05,506 --> 01:29:08,419
SENATOR SIMPSON:
Why in God's name,
1345
01:29:08,443 --> 01:29:12,823
when he left his position
of power or status
1346
01:29:12,847 --> 01:29:18,729
or authority over you,
and you left it in 1983,
1347
01:29:18,753 --> 01:29:24,468
why in God's name would you
ever speak to a man like that
1348
01:29:24,492 --> 01:29:27,104
the rest of your life?
1349
01:29:27,128 --> 01:29:30,607
That is a very good question,
1350
01:29:30,631 --> 01:29:32,843
and I am sure that I
cannot answer that
1351
01:29:32,867 --> 01:29:35,446
to your satisfaction.
1352
01:29:35,470 --> 01:29:40,417
I have suggested that I
was afraid of retaliation,
1353
01:29:40,441 --> 01:29:44,455
I was afraid of damage
to my professional life.
1354
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:48,025
It just seems so
incredible to me
1355
01:29:48,049 --> 01:29:52,029
that you would not only
have visited with him twice
1356
01:29:52,053 --> 01:29:56,600
after that period and
after he was no longer able
1357
01:29:56,624 --> 01:29:59,069
to manipulate you
or to destroy you,
1358
01:29:59,093 --> 01:30:00,838
that you then not
only visited with him
1359
01:30:00,862 --> 01:30:03,741
but took him to the airport,
1360
01:30:03,765 --> 01:30:05,576
and then 11 times contacted him.
1361
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:09,546
That part of it is the
most contradictory
1362
01:30:09,570 --> 01:30:13,817
and puzzling thing for me.
1363
01:30:13,841 --> 01:30:16,144
SENATOR BIDEN:
Adjourned until 9 o'clock.
1364
01:30:21,682 --> 01:30:25,929
CLARENCE: Senator Danforth
called me at home, after that testimony
1365
01:30:25,953 --> 01:30:28,766
and they wanted me
to testify that night,
1366
01:30:28,790 --> 01:30:34,071
to not let the testimony,
her testimony be the new-
1367
01:30:34,095 --> 01:30:36,440
fill up the news cycle.
1368
01:30:36,464 --> 01:30:38,909
NEWSCASTER: This afternoon
Mr. Bush left for Camp David,
1369
01:30:38,933 --> 01:30:41,111
but you would have to describe
the mood here as resigned,
1370
01:30:41,135 --> 01:30:43,414
I think, and somber,
not at all sure
1371
01:30:43,438 --> 01:30:46,817
that Clarence Thomas
is going to survive this.
1372
01:30:46,841 --> 01:30:51,955
CLARENCE: So, I reluctantly
agreed to come back at 8 o'clock.
1373
01:30:51,979 --> 01:30:54,625
GINNI THOMAS: He may have
thought it was necessary to go back
1374
01:30:54,649 --> 01:30:56,627
in front of the Senate,
1375
01:30:56,651 --> 01:30:58,829
but honestly from
his wife's point of view
1376
01:30:58,853 --> 01:31:04,067
watching the man who is my loved,
beloved husband,
1377
01:31:04,091 --> 01:31:08,005
I didn't know he had it
within him to keep going.
1378
01:31:08,029 --> 01:31:12,843
So, I get to Jack,
Senator Danforth's office
1379
01:31:12,867 --> 01:31:17,648
and we sit,
and we begin to discuss that,
1380
01:31:17,672 --> 01:31:19,740
you know what's ahead.
1381
01:31:21,042 --> 01:31:22,920
So, I was exhausted,
1382
01:31:22,944 --> 01:31:26,957
and I asked him to
get rid of all the people.
1383
01:31:26,981 --> 01:31:31,862
He turned off the lights
1384
01:31:31,886 --> 01:31:34,665
and I just laid
down on the couch,
1385
01:31:34,689 --> 01:31:37,091
and just closed my eyes.
1386
01:31:41,863 --> 01:31:44,708
Surrounded by the
darkness of early evening
1387
01:31:44,732 --> 01:31:48,636
drifting in the liminal space
between sleep and waking.
1388
01:31:51,572 --> 01:31:54,876
I must have been thinking
of "To Kill a Mockingbird"
1389
01:31:57,979 --> 01:32:01,191
in which Atticus Finch,
a small-town southern lawyer,
1390
01:32:01,215 --> 01:32:03,594
defends Tom Robinson
1391
01:32:03,618 --> 01:32:07,655
a black man on trial for
the rape of a white woman.
1392
01:32:13,261 --> 01:32:17,241
Gentlemen of the jury,
have you reached a verdict?
1393
01:32:17,265 --> 01:32:20,978
CLARENCE: I had lived my
whole life knowing that Tom's fate
1394
01:32:21,002 --> 01:32:23,647
might be mine.
1395
01:32:23,671 --> 01:32:25,282
Strip away the fancy talk
1396
01:32:25,306 --> 01:32:29,686
and you were left
with the same old story.
1397
01:32:29,710 --> 01:32:32,146
You can't trust black
men around women.
1398
01:32:33,981 --> 01:32:37,018
JURY: We find the
defendant guilty as charged.
1399
01:32:40,755 --> 01:32:44,668
CLARENCE: This one may be a big
city judge with a law degree from Yale
1400
01:32:44,692 --> 01:32:47,838
but when you get
right down to it,
1401
01:32:47,862 --> 01:32:50,164
he's just like the rest of them.
1402
01:32:52,199 --> 01:32:56,813
One of the things
that came to mind
1403
01:32:56,837 --> 01:32:58,282
after I'd rested a little bit,
1404
01:32:58,306 --> 01:33:01,852
I said "Jack,
this is a high-tech lynching"
1405
01:33:01,876 --> 01:33:05,122
and he said "If that's what you think,
say it."
1406
01:33:05,146 --> 01:33:08,158
And so,
I wrote that on a legal pad,
1407
01:33:08,182 --> 01:33:12,296
and he just exhorted me to go
in the name of the Holy Ghost.
1408
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:17,834
[crowd applauding]
1409
01:33:17,858 --> 01:33:21,838
GINNI THOMAS: There were conservative
groups who were marshalling activists
1410
01:33:21,862 --> 01:33:23,840
from around the
country to come in
1411
01:33:23,864 --> 01:33:25,609
and line the hallways.
1412
01:33:25,633 --> 01:33:28,703
[crowd shouting and cheering]
1413
01:33:31,639 --> 01:33:34,685
And when we came out
of Senator Danforth's office,
1414
01:33:34,709 --> 01:33:36,687
and we were going
down the hallway,
1415
01:33:36,711 --> 01:33:40,223
and all these people were clapping,
and very excited.
1416
01:33:40,247 --> 01:33:43,317
[crowd cheering]
1417
01:33:49,023 --> 01:33:51,668
And he said to me
"who are those people?"
1418
01:33:51,692 --> 01:33:54,304
And I said "I think
they're angels."
1419
01:33:54,328 --> 01:33:57,398
[mantle struck]
1420
01:34:01,168 --> 01:34:03,971
SENATOR BIDEN: The
committee will please come to order.
1421
01:34:05,339 --> 01:34:10,387
JUDGE THOMAS: Senator, I would
like to start by saying unequivocally,
1422
01:34:10,411 --> 01:34:16,059
uncategorically that I deny
each and every single allegation
1423
01:34:16,083 --> 01:34:17,628
against me today
1424
01:34:17,652 --> 01:34:20,797
that suggested in any way
1425
01:34:20,821 --> 01:34:26,003
that I had conversations
of a sexual nature
1426
01:34:26,027 --> 01:34:30,140
or about pornographic
material with Anita Hill.
1427
01:34:30,164 --> 01:34:33,777
That I ever
attempted to date her.
1428
01:34:33,801 --> 01:34:39,916
That I ever had any
personal sexual interest in her,
1429
01:34:39,940 --> 01:34:44,254
or that I in any way
ever harassed her.
1430
01:34:44,278 --> 01:34:45,422
This is a circus.
1431
01:34:45,446 --> 01:34:47,782
It is a national disgrace.
1432
01:34:49,083 --> 01:34:53,130
And from my standpoint,
as a black American,
1433
01:34:53,154 --> 01:34:57,000
as far as I am concerned,
it is a high-tech lynching
1434
01:34:57,024 --> 01:35:02,439
for uppity-blacks who in any
way deign to think for themselves,
1435
01:35:02,463 --> 01:35:06,176
to do for themselves,
to have different ideas,
1436
01:35:06,200 --> 01:35:08,178
and it is a message that,
1437
01:35:08,202 --> 01:35:11,748
unless you kowtow
to an old order,
1438
01:35:11,772 --> 01:35:14,951
this is what will happen to you.
1439
01:35:14,975 --> 01:35:21,725
You will be lynched,
destroyed, caricatured
1440
01:35:21,749 --> 01:35:25,228
by a committee
of the U.S. Senate,
1441
01:35:25,252 --> 01:35:29,323
rather than hung from a tree.
1442
01:35:36,263 --> 01:35:40,177
GINNI THOMAS: When Clarence
gave the high-tech lynching speech,
1443
01:35:40,201 --> 01:35:46,717
I knew how little of my husband
was sitting in front of me.
1444
01:35:46,741 --> 01:35:49,886
And I knew that God was with him
1445
01:35:49,910 --> 01:35:52,389
because I knew he wasn't
doing that on his own,
1446
01:35:52,413 --> 01:35:56,150
because I knew how
weak he was at that point.
1447
01:35:59,820 --> 01:36:05,402
And, Judge,
what is your response
1448
01:36:05,426 --> 01:36:08,772
to those specific charges again?
1449
01:36:08,796 --> 01:36:12,342
Senator,
my response is that I categorically,
1450
01:36:12,366 --> 01:36:13,977
unequivocally deny them.
1451
01:36:14,001 --> 01:36:14,912
SENATOR PATRICK: Thank you.
1452
01:36:14,936 --> 01:36:17,013
They did not occur.
1453
01:36:17,037 --> 01:36:22,419
Senator,
I wasn't harmed by the Klan,
1454
01:36:22,443 --> 01:36:25,355
I wasn't harmed by
the Knights of Camelia,
1455
01:36:25,379 --> 01:36:28,391
I wasn't harmed
by the Aryan race,
1456
01:36:28,415 --> 01:36:30,794
I wasn't harmed
by a racist group,
1457
01:36:30,818 --> 01:36:34,831
I was harmed by this process,
1458
01:36:34,855 --> 01:36:40,003
this process which
accommodated these attacks on me.
1459
01:36:40,027 --> 01:36:45,008
I would have preferred
an assassin's bullet
1460
01:36:45,032 --> 01:36:49,312
to this kind of living hell
1461
01:36:49,336 --> 01:36:53,340
that they have put me
and my family through.
1462
01:36:58,879 --> 01:37:01,958
SENATOR GRASSLEY: You
haven't mentioned your grandfather.
1463
01:37:01,982 --> 01:37:04,861
I would like to have you
tell me what you think advice,
1464
01:37:04,885 --> 01:37:12,302
he would give to you if he
were advising you today.
1465
01:37:12,326 --> 01:37:16,807
JUDGE THOMAS: When I was
getting hammered in the public
1466
01:37:16,831 --> 01:37:21,011
and getting criticized,
and I complained to him,
1467
01:37:21,035 --> 01:37:24,881
he told me to stand
up for what I believe in.
1468
01:37:24,905 --> 01:37:27,217
That is what he
would tell me today.
1469
01:37:27,241 --> 01:37:29,920
Not to quit, not to turn tail,
1470
01:37:29,944 --> 01:37:32,255
not to cry "uncle,"
1471
01:37:32,279 --> 01:37:35,025
and not to give
up until I am dead.
1472
01:37:35,049 --> 01:37:37,227
He had another statement.
1473
01:37:37,251 --> 01:37:41,298
"Give out but don't give up."
1474
01:37:41,322 --> 01:37:44,058
That is what he would say to me.
1475
01:37:49,096 --> 01:37:52,475
SENATOR HATCH: I would
like you to describe now,
1476
01:37:52,499 --> 01:37:55,412
for this gathering,
1477
01:37:55,436 --> 01:38:03,436
what it is like to be accused
of sexual harassment.
1478
01:38:04,211 --> 01:38:06,590
And let me add the word,
unjustly accused
1479
01:38:06,614 --> 01:38:11,995
of sexual harassment.
1480
01:38:12,019 --> 01:38:16,633
The day I received a
phone call on Saturday night,
1481
01:38:16,657 --> 01:38:21,238
last Saturday night, about 7:30
1482
01:38:21,262 --> 01:38:28,245
and told that this was going
to be in the press, I had-I died.
1483
01:38:28,269 --> 01:38:31,381
The person you knew,
whether you voted for me
1484
01:38:31,405 --> 01:38:34,451
or against me...
1485
01:38:34,475 --> 01:38:37,278
died.
1486
01:38:52,660 --> 01:38:56,397
In my view,
that is an injustice.
1487
01:39:01,669 --> 01:39:04,481
SENATOR HATCH: Judge,
you are here though.
1488
01:39:04,505 --> 01:39:06,082
Some people have
been spreading the rumor
1489
01:39:06,106 --> 01:39:09,043
that perhaps you
are going to withdraw.
1490
01:39:12,313 --> 01:39:15,025
What's Clarence
Thomas going to do?
1491
01:39:15,049 --> 01:39:18,628
JUDGE THOMAS: I would
rather die than withdraw.
1492
01:39:18,652 --> 01:39:21,355
If they are going to kill me,
they're going to kill me.
1493
01:39:29,229 --> 01:39:31,708
So, you would still like to
serve on the Supreme Court?
1494
01:39:31,732 --> 01:39:36,270
I would rather die than
withdraw from the process.
1495
01:39:40,240 --> 01:39:44,454
Not for the purpose of
serving on the Supreme Court
1496
01:39:44,478 --> 01:39:49,659
but for the purpose of not
being driven out of this process.
1497
01:39:49,683 --> 01:39:51,594
I will not be scared.
1498
01:39:51,618 --> 01:39:53,463
I don't like bullies.
1499
01:39:53,487 --> 01:39:56,299
I have never run from bullies.
1500
01:39:56,323 --> 01:39:59,269
I never cry uncle and I am
not going to cry uncle today
1501
01:39:59,293 --> 01:40:02,663
whether I want to be on
the Supreme Court or not.
1502
01:40:06,166 --> 01:40:09,436
We are recessed for 15 minutes.
1503
01:40:12,539 --> 01:40:14,517
CROWD: We support Thomas!
1504
01:40:14,541 --> 01:40:22,541
We support Thomas!
1505
01:40:23,550 --> 01:40:26,329
CLARENCE: The poll numbers
had changed dramatically,
1506
01:40:26,353 --> 01:40:28,131
after I testified.
1507
01:40:28,155 --> 01:40:29,566
NEWSCASTER: More than
twice as many respondents
1508
01:40:29,590 --> 01:40:31,768
to a CBS News/New
York Times poll say
1509
01:40:31,792 --> 01:40:33,003
they would likely
believe Judge Thomas
1510
01:40:33,027 --> 01:40:35,739
if they were forced to choose.
1511
01:40:35,763 --> 01:40:40,343
It's like two thirds of the
country was normally on my side.
1512
01:40:40,367 --> 01:40:43,013
The question is on the
confirmation of the nomination
1513
01:40:43,037 --> 01:40:46,516
of Clarence Thomas of Georgia
to be an Associate Justice
1514
01:40:46,540 --> 01:40:49,019
of the United States
Supreme Court.
1515
01:40:49,043 --> 01:40:50,587
SPEAKER: Mr. Deconcini.
1516
01:40:50,611 --> 01:40:51,654
DECONCINI: Aye.
1517
01:40:51,678 --> 01:40:54,057
SPEAKER: Mr. Kerry
of Massachusetts.
1518
01:40:54,081 --> 01:40:55,558
KERRY: No.
1519
01:40:55,582 --> 01:40:56,726
SPEAKER: Mr. McCain
1520
01:40:56,750 --> 01:40:59,529
McCAIN: Aye.
1521
01:40:59,553 --> 01:41:02,399
MICHAEL: Where were you
during the actual Senate vote?
1522
01:41:02,423 --> 01:41:05,368
CLARENCE: During the vote,
I was in the tub, and finally,
1523
01:41:05,392 --> 01:41:13,392
So I got in the bath,
and just sort of soaked.
1524
01:41:13,700 --> 01:41:19,482
QUAYLE: On this vote the
yeas are 52 and the nays are 48.
1525
01:41:19,506 --> 01:41:22,218
The nomination of
Clarence Thomas of Georgia
1526
01:41:22,242 --> 01:41:25,255
to be associate justice of the
United States Supreme Court
1527
01:41:25,279 --> 01:41:27,090
is hereby confirmed.
1528
01:41:27,114 --> 01:41:29,159
GINNI THOMAS: So,
when the vote happened,
1529
01:41:29,183 --> 01:41:33,663
someone who worked with me
called and told me that he won.
1530
01:41:33,687 --> 01:41:38,068
And I went and told Clarence,
and he was in a bath-tub.
1531
01:41:38,092 --> 01:41:40,670
And you know, my reaction is,
1532
01:41:40,694 --> 01:41:44,774
still pretty much the way it is
now "whoop-dee-damn-doo."
1533
01:41:44,798 --> 01:41:46,743
And I wasn't really
all that interested in it.
1534
01:41:46,767 --> 01:41:49,512
I just think what
they did was wrong.
1535
01:41:49,536 --> 01:41:50,847
So that you get confirmed,
but the bottom line
1536
01:41:50,871 --> 01:41:52,816
doesn't change the fact
that what you did was wrong.
1537
01:41:52,840 --> 01:41:55,685
Repeat after me:
1538
01:41:55,709 --> 01:41:58,688
I, Clarence Thomas...
1539
01:41:58,712 --> 01:42:01,791
Do solemnly swear...
1540
01:42:01,815 --> 01:42:03,426
JUSTICE WHITE: That I
will support and defend...
1541
01:42:03,450 --> 01:42:05,261
That I will support
and defend...
1542
01:42:05,285 --> 01:42:10,190
The Constitution
of the United States.
1543
01:42:12,359 --> 01:42:17,440
Without warning memories of home,
my grandparents
1544
01:42:17,464 --> 01:42:19,375
and the accumulated toil
1545
01:42:19,399 --> 01:42:22,712
of the last 4 decades
swirled through my mind.
1546
01:42:22,736 --> 01:42:30,736
[♪]
1547
01:42:42,756 --> 01:42:46,703
[♪]
1548
01:42:46,727 --> 01:42:50,340
those same groups that
opposed you during confirmation,
1549
01:42:50,364 --> 01:42:52,509
continued their attack.
1550
01:42:52,533 --> 01:42:53,377
Yeah.
1551
01:42:53,401 --> 01:42:57,647
Nothing they do
surprises me anymore.
1552
01:42:57,671 --> 01:43:02,318
It's just, it's unpleasant,
but that's life.
1553
01:43:02,342 --> 01:43:10,342
[♪]
1554
01:43:22,362 --> 01:43:29,812
[♪]
1555
01:43:29,836 --> 01:43:32,382
The idea was to get rid of me,
1556
01:43:32,406 --> 01:43:36,486
and then it was after I was there,
it was to undermine me,
1557
01:43:36,510 --> 01:43:39,355
my credibility,
my effectiveness.
1558
01:43:39,379 --> 01:43:40,690
You want another bran muffin?
1559
01:43:40,714 --> 01:43:41,891
I could use some more coffee,
Clarence.
1560
01:43:41,915 --> 01:43:43,760
Sure thing!
1561
01:43:43,784 --> 01:43:50,700
Of Springfield police department
vs. Hector Rodriguez Gonzalez.
1562
01:43:50,724 --> 01:43:51,968
Justice Thomas?
1563
01:43:51,992 --> 01:43:56,472
Uhh, well how were the rest
of you guys going to vote?
1564
01:43:56,496 --> 01:43:58,708
I'm voting for the
police department.
1565
01:43:58,732 --> 01:44:03,546
I say whatever the
rest of you guys say.
1566
01:44:03,570 --> 01:44:05,572
Justice Thomas...
1567
01:44:08,242 --> 01:44:10,753
CLARENCE: Well,
it's stereotypes draped in sanctimony
1568
01:44:10,777 --> 01:44:13,380
and self-congratulation.
1569
01:44:21,788 --> 01:44:24,234
It's a different sets of
rules for different people.
1570
01:44:24,258 --> 01:44:29,305
If you criticize a... a black
person who's more liberal,
1571
01:44:29,329 --> 01:44:30,440
you are racist.
1572
01:44:30,464 --> 01:44:33,343
Whereas if you can
do whatever to me,
1573
01:44:33,367 --> 01:44:37,413
or to now, Ben Carson,
1574
01:44:37,437 --> 01:44:39,716
ah, and that's fine because
you're not really black,
1575
01:44:39,740 --> 01:44:42,752
because you're not doing what
we expect black people to do.
1576
01:44:42,776 --> 01:44:50,776
[♪]
1577
01:44:56,423 --> 01:44:59,569
It's a tactic and when
people see it being successful,
1578
01:44:59,593 --> 01:45:01,537
they don't realize they're
going to be the next ones
1579
01:45:01,561 --> 01:45:04,307
in the Tower of London.
1580
01:45:04,331 --> 01:45:05,842
It is just a matter of time.
1581
01:45:05,866 --> 01:45:10,313
You allow this to be a
precedent in your society,
1582
01:45:10,337 --> 01:45:11,848
and you, people might say,
"Oh, it's wonderful.
1583
01:45:11,872 --> 01:45:14,350
This particular guy is
getting tarred and feathered."
1584
01:45:14,374 --> 01:45:17,053
Well, there's a lot of tar,
and there's a lot of feather,
1585
01:45:17,077 --> 01:45:19,579
and eventually
you will be there.
1586
01:45:21,515 --> 01:45:23,493
NEWSCASTER: A watershed
moment at the Supreme Court-
1587
01:45:23,517 --> 01:45:26,329
Justice Clarence
Thomas asked a question
1588
01:45:26,353 --> 01:45:28,798
this is the first time Thomas
has asked a question
1589
01:45:28,822 --> 01:45:31,501
in ten years.
1590
01:45:31,525 --> 01:45:33,536
He has said he
relies on written briefs.
1591
01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:35,571
The case involves
the Federal Law...
1592
01:45:35,595 --> 01:45:43,012
[♪]
1593
01:45:43,036 --> 01:45:46,482
MICHAEL: Some people say
you don't ask enough questions
1594
01:45:46,506 --> 01:45:48,484
during oral argument.
1595
01:45:48,508 --> 01:45:50,820
We are judges, not advocates
1596
01:45:50,844 --> 01:45:52,622
and I think we
should act accordingly.
1597
01:45:52,646 --> 01:45:54,691
Yeah, we might have opinions,
1598
01:45:54,715 --> 01:45:57,794
but it's not my job
to argue with lawyers;
1599
01:45:57,818 --> 01:45:59,829
it's their job to
make their cases,
1600
01:45:59,853 --> 01:46:03,433
and there's an
advocate on each side.
1601
01:46:03,457 --> 01:46:05,768
The referee in the game
should not be a participant
1602
01:46:05,792 --> 01:46:08,571
in the game.
1603
01:46:08,595 --> 01:46:11,741
The way things are
changed is when the opinion,
1604
01:46:11,765 --> 01:46:13,042
the senior member
in the majority
1605
01:46:13,066 --> 01:46:15,645
assigns who writes the opinion,
1606
01:46:15,669 --> 01:46:20,817
when that opinion is,
is in draft form, it circulates.
1607
01:46:20,841 --> 01:46:22,819
And that's where
the negotiations
1608
01:46:22,843 --> 01:46:24,821
and the real work takes place.
1609
01:46:24,845 --> 01:46:31,084
[♪]
1610
01:46:34,921 --> 01:46:39,535
One of the joys I get is,
I get four new clerks every year.
1611
01:46:39,559 --> 01:46:41,571
I hire four new
clerks every year.
1612
01:46:41,595 --> 01:46:45,742
Everybody who's chosen here,
was chosen for a reason,
1613
01:46:45,766 --> 01:46:48,711
I'm very careful.
1614
01:46:48,735 --> 01:46:51,581
Everybody here is just,
just what a great group.
1615
01:46:51,605 --> 01:46:56,486
GINNI THOMAS: When Clarence
started picking non-Ivy League clerks,
1616
01:46:56,510 --> 01:47:00,690
some people would
call them "third tier trash"
1617
01:47:00,714 --> 01:47:04,093
and those clerks who
were clerking for Clarence,
1618
01:47:04,117 --> 01:47:07,497
took it as a badge of honor.
1619
01:47:07,521 --> 01:47:08,698
CLARENCE: So why
did you go to USC?
1620
01:47:08,722 --> 01:47:11,167
[laughing]
1621
01:47:11,191 --> 01:47:13,936
MADELINE LANSKY:
Your favorite question.
1622
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:18,608
CHRISTOPHER MILLS: For law
school I applied sort of all over the place
1623
01:47:18,632 --> 01:47:22,044
and just went to the,
1624
01:47:22,068 --> 01:47:26,749
went to the best
place I could get in.
1625
01:47:26,773 --> 01:47:29,018
CLARENCE: And that was Harvard?
1626
01:47:29,042 --> 01:47:31,053
CHRISTOPHER MILLS: I guess.
1627
01:47:31,077 --> 01:47:32,922
That's what people told me.
1628
01:47:32,946 --> 01:47:34,724
Couldn't have done any better,
huh?
1629
01:47:34,748 --> 01:47:37,717
[laughter]
1630
01:47:41,087 --> 01:47:44,167
We had some suggestions for you,
but you didn't call us.
1631
01:47:44,191 --> 01:47:46,493
[laughing]
1632
01:47:50,964 --> 01:47:52,442
PROTESTORS: What do we want?
1633
01:47:52,466 --> 01:47:53,042
Affirmative action!
1634
01:47:53,066 --> 01:47:54,010
When do we want it?
1635
01:47:54,034 --> 01:47:54,911
Now!
1636
01:47:54,935 --> 01:47:55,779
What do we want?
1637
01:47:55,803 --> 01:47:56,846
Affirmative action!
1638
01:47:56,870 --> 01:47:57,847
When do we want it?
1639
01:47:57,871 --> 01:48:00,917
NEWSCASTER: What is
expected to be a landmark case
1640
01:48:00,941 --> 01:48:04,120
before the Supreme Court
to be argued this April.
1641
01:48:04,144 --> 01:48:06,856
NEWSCASTER #2: The plaintiffs in
this case are three white applicants
1642
01:48:06,880 --> 01:48:08,958
to the University of
Michigan who were rejected,
1643
01:48:08,982 --> 01:48:11,794
they say, because of their race.
1644
01:48:11,818 --> 01:48:19,818
[♪]
1645
01:48:21,695 --> 01:48:27,243
CLARENCE: "Racial discrimination
is not a permissible solution...
1646
01:48:27,267 --> 01:48:30,713
that can only weaken
the principle of equality
1647
01:48:30,737 --> 01:48:34,684
embodied in the
Declaration of Independence
1648
01:48:34,708 --> 01:48:37,177
and the Equal
Protection Clause."
1649
01:48:40,280 --> 01:48:43,192
Show me in the Constitution
where you get a right
1650
01:48:43,216 --> 01:48:46,095
to separate citizens
based on race.
1651
01:48:46,119 --> 01:48:48,798
I think what we've
become comfortable with is
1652
01:48:48,822 --> 01:48:51,667
thinking that there is
some good discrimination
1653
01:48:51,691 --> 01:48:54,036
and some bad discrimination.
1654
01:48:54,060 --> 01:49:00,209
And if you look in the
briefs in the race cases, uh,
1655
01:49:00,233 --> 01:49:02,778
the segregationists,
the people who thought
1656
01:49:02,802 --> 01:49:04,614
you should have a separate system,
they,
1657
01:49:04,638 --> 01:49:08,951
they said that they thought
it was good for both races.
1658
01:49:08,975 --> 01:49:11,153
So they thought it was
good discrimination.
1659
01:49:11,177 --> 01:49:19,177
[♪]
1660
01:49:35,268 --> 01:49:39,715
You have to really be
careful not to supplant
1661
01:49:39,739 --> 01:49:45,755
what is there, what was,
uh, rightfully done,
1662
01:49:45,779 --> 01:49:50,826
simply because you
don't think it's a great rule.
1663
01:49:50,850 --> 01:49:53,162
A bad policy can
be constitutional.
1664
01:49:53,186 --> 01:49:56,899
A good policy can
be unconstitutional.
1665
01:49:56,923 --> 01:50:01,037
So that's why we
start with the text.
1666
01:50:01,061 --> 01:50:07,910
GINNI THOMAS: Justice Scalia called
Clarence a "blood thirsty originalist."
1667
01:50:07,934 --> 01:50:10,804
He took that as a compliment.
1668
01:50:15,609 --> 01:50:17,219
CLARENCE: The framers
understood natural law,
1669
01:50:17,243 --> 01:50:19,589
and natural rights
a certain way,
1670
01:50:19,613 --> 01:50:22,758
and it is underpinning
of our Declaration,
1671
01:50:22,782 --> 01:50:26,862
which then becomes the
foundation for the Constitution.
1672
01:50:26,886 --> 01:50:29,765
They start with the
rights of the individual.
1673
01:50:29,789 --> 01:50:31,634
And where do those
rights come from?
1674
01:50:31,658 --> 01:50:34,361
They come from God,
they're transcendent.
1675
01:50:39,766 --> 01:50:41,310
And you give up
some of those rights
1676
01:50:41,334 --> 01:50:42,979
in order to be governed.
1677
01:50:43,003 --> 01:50:45,281
They're inalienable rights.
1678
01:50:45,305 --> 01:50:49,919
And now you give up
only so many as necessary
1679
01:50:49,943 --> 01:50:54,323
to be governed by your consent.
1680
01:50:54,347 --> 01:51:00,196
And hence limited government,
enumerated powers,
1681
01:51:00,220 --> 01:51:05,067
separation of powers,
federalism, judicial review.
1682
01:51:05,091 --> 01:51:08,061
It all makes sense.
1683
01:51:15,402 --> 01:51:23,402
[♪]
1684
01:51:24,277 --> 01:51:28,958
GINNI THOMAS: One of Clarence's
biggest loves is when he can get away
1685
01:51:28,982 --> 01:51:33,963
from Washington DC and be
on the road in his motor home.
1686
01:51:33,987 --> 01:51:40,202
[♪]
1687
01:51:40,226 --> 01:51:42,805
CLARENCE: You know, I don't
have any problem with going to Europe,
1688
01:51:42,829 --> 01:51:45,941
but I prefer the United States.
1689
01:51:45,965 --> 01:51:49,378
And I prefer seeing the regular
parts of the United States.
1690
01:51:49,402 --> 01:51:53,149
I prefer going across
the rural areas.
1691
01:51:53,173 --> 01:51:57,386
I prefer the RV parks,
and I prefer the Walmart parking
1692
01:51:57,410 --> 01:52:01,891
lots to the beaches
and things like that.
1693
01:52:01,915 --> 01:52:04,694
There's something,
normal to me about it.
1694
01:52:04,718 --> 01:52:08,297
I come from regular stock,
and I prefer that.
1695
01:52:08,321 --> 01:52:12,368
I prefer being around that.
1696
01:52:12,392 --> 01:52:15,871
GINNI THOMAS: I think he has
a natural capacity to hear more
1697
01:52:15,895 --> 01:52:18,965
than most of us do
from regular people.
1698
01:52:21,134 --> 01:52:25,081
Clarence's grandfather
is the perfect example
1699
01:52:25,105 --> 01:52:26,916
of an anchor in his life
1700
01:52:26,940 --> 01:52:30,853
that was not seen by
the elites as having value
1701
01:52:30,877 --> 01:52:33,189
because he had
such poor education.
1702
01:52:33,213 --> 01:52:34,924
He was illiterate.
1703
01:52:34,948 --> 01:52:41,297
But for Clarence,
the wisdom from that man
1704
01:52:41,321 --> 01:52:43,432
and the experience,
and the way he lived his life,
1705
01:52:43,456 --> 01:52:47,127
did make him the
greatest man in his life.
1706
01:52:48,928 --> 01:52:53,275
GINNI THOMAS: I think he
hopes that when he gets to heaven,
1707
01:52:53,299 --> 01:52:57,837
that his grandfather would say,
"Well done."
1708
01:53:00,907 --> 01:53:03,819
CLARENCE: I keep a bust of my
grandfather that my wife had made,
1709
01:53:03,843 --> 01:53:06,780
over me and I've done
since I've been at the court.
1710
01:53:10,316 --> 01:53:13,929
He was uncorrupted
by modern thinking.
1711
01:53:13,953 --> 01:53:20,260
When you can't read and write,
you take in life as it is.
1712
01:53:22,829 --> 01:53:24,373
You did things a certain way.
1713
01:53:24,397 --> 01:53:28,277
You planted corn a certain way,
you fed the hogs a certain way,
1714
01:53:28,301 --> 01:53:30,112
you pulled the fence
line a certain way,
1715
01:53:30,136 --> 01:53:31,981
you plowed the field a certain
way,
1716
01:53:32,005 --> 01:53:34,340
and it always had to be the
right way.
1717
01:53:37,210 --> 01:53:40,089
I want to be able to say to him
I lived up to my oath
1718
01:53:40,113 --> 01:53:42,291
and did my best.
1719
01:53:42,315 --> 01:53:48,531
[♪]
1720
01:53:48,555 --> 01:53:51,467
To do it the way you did the
field, properly,
1721
01:53:51,491 --> 01:53:53,369
to do the law the right way,
1722
01:53:53,393 --> 01:53:56,162
to conduct yourself
the right way.
1723
01:54:00,200 --> 01:54:03,946
I want to be able to say that
it's a job well done.
1724
01:54:03,970 --> 01:54:11,970
[♪]
1725
01:54:14,047 --> 01:54:17,026
And to be a part
of this, this country,
1726
01:54:17,050 --> 01:54:18,961
and this Constitution,
1727
01:54:18,985 --> 01:54:24,900
there is a sense of fulfillment
that you get to write,
1728
01:54:24,924 --> 01:54:31,240
and to defend the very thing
that protects our liberties.
1729
01:54:31,264 --> 01:54:34,243
[vocalizing]
1730
01:54:34,267 --> 01:54:42,267
>>>>oakislandtk<<<<<
www.opensubtitles.org
1731
01:54:54,287 --> 01:55:02,287
[♪]
1732
01:55:14,307 --> 01:55:22,307
[♪]
1733
01:55:34,327 --> 01:55:42,327
[♪]
140365
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