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1
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Hi, this is Joe Russo.
2
00:00:06,465 --> 00:00:08,217
This is Steve McFeely.
3
00:00:08,301 --> 00:00:10,094
And this is Chris Markus.
4
00:00:10,178 --> 00:00:12,513
And this is Anthony Russo.
5
00:00:12,597 --> 00:00:15,391
JOE: And that is Ava Russo,
holding the bow right there.
6
00:00:15,474 --> 00:00:16,475
That's my daughter.
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00:00:16,934 --> 00:00:21,314
I was very happy that
she's the first person on screen
8
00:00:21,397 --> 00:00:23,316
in Avengers: Endgame with Jeremy Renner.
9
00:00:23,399 --> 00:00:28,404
Now, this scene was supposed to be
in Avengers: Infinity War,
10
00:00:28,487 --> 00:00:30,907
after Thanos snapped his fingers.
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00:00:31,490 --> 00:00:34,785
We thought
it might be interesting to cut to
12
00:00:34,869 --> 00:00:38,456
a vérité scene between
Hawkeye and his family.
13
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,625
LAURA: Nice throw, kiddo.
14
00:00:41,125 --> 00:00:44,253
JOE: I believe we tried it
in one cut of the film, Anth,
15
00:00:44,337 --> 00:00:45,338
and looked at it and went,
16
00:00:45,421 --> 00:00:47,882
"Oh, that's never gonna work.
It's too disorienting."
17
00:00:47,965 --> 00:00:49,342
McFEELY: It was busy. Yeah.
JOE: Yeah.
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00:00:49,425 --> 00:00:52,678
McFEELY: In that movie, not to do
a commentary for a different movie,
19
00:00:52,762 --> 00:00:55,264
but in that movie that ends with
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00:00:55,348 --> 00:00:59,018
people disappearing
on a planet in space,
21
00:00:59,101 --> 00:01:00,937
and they're in Wakanda...
22
00:01:01,020 --> 00:01:02,688
JOE: In the jungle on Wakanda.
McFEELY: If you added a third place...
23
00:01:02,772 --> 00:01:04,607
ANTHONY: Right, we're already cutting
between a lot of people
24
00:01:04,690 --> 00:01:06,525
at that point in the film.
25
00:01:06,609 --> 00:01:11,656
MARKUS: But it also works
so well to restate
26
00:01:13,991 --> 00:01:16,369
the finality of what happened
in Infinity War,
27
00:01:16,452 --> 00:01:17,787
when you put it
at the beginning of Endgame.
28
00:01:17,870 --> 00:01:18,871
JOE: I think so.
29
00:01:18,955 --> 00:01:21,749
It brings you back
emotionally very quickly.
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00:01:21,832 --> 00:01:24,919
There's a year between these films,
and this movie helps to reset,
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00:01:26,587 --> 00:01:30,508
re-remind the audience
of what happened in that movie
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00:01:30,591 --> 00:01:32,468
and how you felt
at the end of that film.
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00:01:32,551 --> 00:01:34,220
ANTHONY: But through
a brand-new perspective.
34
00:01:34,303 --> 00:01:36,514
MARKUS: We didn't see Clint at all
in Infinity War.
35
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- Here we have him, and he is hit hard.
- JOE: Yeah.
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00:01:39,850 --> 00:01:43,145
We're not pulling any punches
at the opening of the film.
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00:01:43,229 --> 00:01:46,357
This is basically like
a scene from a horror film
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that opens the movie.
39
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McFEELY: And also sort of
draws people in.
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00:01:50,528 --> 00:01:52,822
I mean, presumably,
everyone who goes to this movie,
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by and large, saw the previous movie.
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So, this is one of those instances
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where the entire audience
is ahead of the character
44
00:02:00,538 --> 00:02:01,956
and filled with dread.
45
00:02:02,039 --> 00:02:03,165
MARKUS: Yeah.
46
00:02:03,249 --> 00:02:04,292
JOE: Absolutely.
47
00:02:04,375 --> 00:02:05,543
ANTHONY: Which is an unusual move.
48
00:02:05,626 --> 00:02:07,253
Usually, we never let the audience
be ahead of the character.
49
00:02:07,336 --> 00:02:09,088
McFEELY: No, this is playing
for suspense and not surprise.
50
00:02:09,171 --> 00:02:10,506
ANTHONY: Yeah.
51
00:02:11,257 --> 00:02:14,343
JOE: Now, this song was resonant
for a lot of reasons.
52
00:02:14,468 --> 00:02:17,471
We felt like it was correct tonally,
53
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but we also thought that the lyrics
were appropriate for Marvel,
54
00:02:23,269 --> 00:02:24,645
and what it's done,
55
00:02:25,187 --> 00:02:31,027
and the expectations
from giant pop culture films.
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00:02:31,736 --> 00:02:36,073
ANTHONY: This being the climactic movie
of the 22-movie run,
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00:02:36,157 --> 00:02:39,201
it was nice to comment on
our experience of these movies.
58
00:02:40,244 --> 00:02:41,704
McFEELY: Did you have
a different thought
59
00:02:41,787 --> 00:02:44,707
about needle drops in this
as opposed to score?
60
00:02:44,790 --> 00:02:46,625
I don't think in Infinity War,
61
00:02:46,709 --> 00:02:50,087
other than maybe a Guardians
beat, that there are needle drops.
62
00:02:50,171 --> 00:02:52,590
ANTHONY: We did like the fact that
it made things feel different,
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especially at that point in the movie.
64
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It was an unusual choice.
65
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And the way that stood
in contrast to Infinity War.
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It was important again,
67
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'cause we're trying to let
people know right away
68
00:03:03,476 --> 00:03:05,686
that this is a different story.
69
00:03:05,770 --> 00:03:08,189
JOE: Told from a different point of view
in a different tone.
70
00:03:08,272 --> 00:03:09,357
MARKUS: Yeah.
71
00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,985
JOE: And so that does distinguish it
right off the bat.
72
00:03:13,069 --> 00:03:15,363
ANTHONY: Here's Hamlet's...
McFEELY: Yeah, that's right.
73
00:03:15,446 --> 00:03:17,865
You'll notice I bang on
74
00:03:17,948 --> 00:03:19,825
about how scenes have
to do more than one thing.
75
00:03:19,909 --> 00:03:23,245
This is gonna catch you up
to time and place.
76
00:03:23,329 --> 00:03:26,832
This is also going to establish...
77
00:03:26,916 --> 00:03:28,959
Again, spoilers,
I assume you're only watching this
78
00:03:29,043 --> 00:03:30,169
'cause you've seen the movie,
79
00:03:30,294 --> 00:03:33,881
the device by which Tony
is going to deliver his own eulogy.
80
00:03:34,006 --> 00:03:35,341
So, it doesn't come out of nowhere.
81
00:03:35,466 --> 00:03:37,551
It starts the movie,
and it ends the movie.
82
00:03:39,428 --> 00:03:41,597
JOE: And here's Robert.
83
00:03:42,556 --> 00:03:47,186
Our VFX team did an exceptional job
84
00:03:48,771 --> 00:03:50,689
of taking some weight off of him
85
00:03:50,773 --> 00:03:54,318
and making him look like
he is on death's door.
86
00:03:54,402 --> 00:03:59,990
And the intent here was
to make you believe, if momentarily,
87
00:04:00,074 --> 00:04:05,871
that we may actually kill Tony Stark
at the start of the film.
88
00:04:05,955 --> 00:04:07,415
We wanted to...
89
00:04:07,498 --> 00:04:09,333
You'll notice that we draw out
90
00:04:09,458 --> 00:04:12,837
the moment where
he lays down on the ground
91
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,843
and seems to let go as a way
92
00:04:20,052 --> 00:04:21,762
to create a sense of tension
93
00:04:21,846 --> 00:04:26,100
before introducing
Captain Marvel as the savior.
94
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ANTHONY: I would give a shout-out here
95
00:04:27,309 --> 00:04:29,645
to our production designer,
Charlie Wood.
96
00:04:29,728 --> 00:04:32,815
I think that set in there
is a big testament
97
00:04:32,898 --> 00:04:34,942
to the level of detail
98
00:04:35,025 --> 00:04:38,279
that he provides to the production,
99
00:04:38,362 --> 00:04:41,699
and just the fact that
we can tear apart this ship
100
00:04:41,782 --> 00:04:43,993
as Tony and Nebula work on it,
101
00:04:44,076 --> 00:04:47,371
you know, is pretty thrilling
and not easy to achieve.
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McFEELY: Yeah.
103
00:04:49,457 --> 00:04:53,002
The heavy lift between both movies
for Charlie was ridiculous.
104
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MARKUS: Yeah, exceptional.
105
00:04:54,462 --> 00:04:55,629
ANTHONY: Yeah,
can you imagine production
106
00:04:55,713 --> 00:04:57,256
designing these two movies back-to-back?
107
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JOE: The amount of work is staggering.
108
00:04:58,799 --> 00:05:00,634
ANTHONY: We all had a tall order,
109
00:05:00,718 --> 00:05:03,053
but Charlie certainly
had perhaps the tallest.
110
00:05:05,431 --> 00:05:09,810
JOE: Let's talk about Tony in this film,
and Tony's arc in this movie.
111
00:05:10,686 --> 00:05:15,983
What is most compelling
for all of us as storytellers,
112
00:05:16,066 --> 00:05:19,653
I think, is making characters
travel the greatest distance.
113
00:05:19,737 --> 00:05:25,367
And so if you look at where
Tony started in the Marvel Universe
114
00:05:25,951 --> 00:05:31,248
as an egotistical,
self-involved character,
115
00:05:31,332 --> 00:05:36,003
by the end of this film, he is selfless.
116
00:05:36,086 --> 00:05:40,466
And this movie, I think,
is a large part of his journey,
117
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and it will complicate...
118
00:05:45,513 --> 00:05:48,474
Bring to the forefront the essential
conflict of who he is as a hero.
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00:05:48,557 --> 00:05:49,934
McFEELY: And it tests him dramatically.
120
00:05:50,017 --> 00:05:52,394
He certainly has been taking nibbles
121
00:05:52,478 --> 00:05:55,523
at being a more selfless character
all along the way.
122
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I mean, certainly in Avengers,
he was gonna die
123
00:05:58,692 --> 00:06:00,611
by sending a nuke into space.
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00:06:00,694 --> 00:06:02,112
JOE: That's right, yeah.
125
00:06:02,196 --> 00:06:03,739
McFEELY: By the time
he gets to Civil War,
126
00:06:03,822 --> 00:06:06,575
he's certainly trying
to take things out of his own hands.
127
00:06:06,659 --> 00:06:08,202
ANTHONY: Put a suit of armor
around the world.
128
00:06:08,285 --> 00:06:09,286
McFEELY: Yeah.
129
00:06:09,370 --> 00:06:12,206
But by the time he gets here,
130
00:06:12,289 --> 00:06:14,875
has a family to lose,
131
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the sacrifice becomes pretty dramatic.
132
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MARKUS: Well, I think in this movie,
given the five-year jump,
133
00:06:23,175 --> 00:06:26,971
he finally knows what
he's missing and gets it,
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00:06:27,054 --> 00:06:30,349
and then gains resolution
with his father.
135
00:06:30,432 --> 00:06:32,726
He's doing the right thing
in the other movies,
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but he's not a complete person,
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and by the time he gets
to the third act of this movie,
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he is whole, and can then die.
139
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McFEELY: Yeah, not to jump too far,
140
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but that's part of
what the five years does,
141
00:06:44,196 --> 00:06:47,992
is it allows all those characters
to get really close to being
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00:06:48,075 --> 00:06:51,745
quote-unquote complete people,
ending their arcs.
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JOE: And now here's that moment.
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We draw out
145
00:06:59,378 --> 00:07:02,339
with the intention
of trying to increase tension.
146
00:07:03,382 --> 00:07:07,136
And then, gently, you'll notice
the light changes on his face.
147
00:07:10,389 --> 00:07:13,767
And the audience's anticipation,
I think, rises,
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00:07:14,143 --> 00:07:17,146
hopefully, as we reveal
149
00:07:19,231 --> 00:07:20,441
Captain Marvel.
150
00:07:21,442 --> 00:07:24,445
MARKUS: And this is essentially
151
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the B-side to the tag
from Captain Marvel,
152
00:07:28,616 --> 00:07:31,201
where she comes back
153
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and the Captain Marvel tag is the B-side
to the tag from Infinity War.
154
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- So, it's press the beeper...
- McFEELY: That's right.
155
00:07:39,376 --> 00:07:40,794
MARKUS: ...she responds to the beeper,
156
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and this is what she does in response
to finding out what happened on Earth.
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00:07:45,174 --> 00:07:46,842
JOE: The missing narrative, of course,
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is that she came to Earth,
met the Avengers...
159
00:07:50,429 --> 00:07:51,972
McFEELY: Right.
160
00:07:52,056 --> 00:07:55,100
JOE: ...was brought up to speed
on what was happening,
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00:07:55,184 --> 00:08:00,189
and that there's some sort of homing
beacon on that ship that she tracks,
162
00:08:00,272 --> 00:08:04,234
and brings the two of them
back to Earth.
163
00:08:06,111 --> 00:08:07,154
McFEELY: Pour one out
for Cap's beard here.
164
00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:08,322
MARKUS: Yeah.
165
00:08:09,239 --> 00:08:11,241
McFEELY: Oh. Can I ask this
while I'm just watching that?
166
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You had various cuts where
you didn't reveal Carol until here.
167
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JOE: That is correct.
ANTHONY: Yeah.
168
00:08:18,374 --> 00:08:22,419
JOE: And we felt like it was not
as successful of a reveal.
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Yeah, we just didn't
like the transition.
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ANTHONY: Again, like,
sometimes these movies,
171
00:08:28,842 --> 00:08:31,679
because of the vast number of characters
in these movies,
172
00:08:31,762 --> 00:08:33,847
sometimes things
can feel a little confusing
173
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if you go too far down
the road without sort of clocking...
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McFEELY: It's a bit confusing,
175
00:08:40,437 --> 00:08:42,314
but the idea will be that
there'd be orange light on Tony's face.
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He'd see something.
The audience wouldn't see it,
177
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and then only would you reveal
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what happened there.
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JOE: And she would
come around the corner.
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We didn't shoot a close-up
of her bringing that ship in.
181
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Which was probably what would
be required in order to skip that.
182
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And now there's the continuing story
183
00:08:58,706 --> 00:09:01,542
between Cap and Tony.
184
00:09:01,625 --> 00:09:03,252
This is the first time
that they've seen each other...
185
00:09:03,335 --> 00:09:05,963
- Yeah, since the end of Civil War.
- ANTHONY: Since the end of Civil War.
186
00:09:07,256 --> 00:09:11,260
JOE: And what we found fascinating
about the opening of this movie,
187
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or that we were all excited about,
188
00:09:13,929 --> 00:09:20,728
was really examining
how these heroes dealt with loss
189
00:09:21,311 --> 00:09:22,896
and pain.
190
00:09:23,647 --> 00:09:28,193
And again, just trying to understand
who they are as humans
191
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and examine their flaws,
192
00:09:30,821 --> 00:09:34,074
and this is an amazing scene for Robert.
193
00:09:34,158 --> 00:09:39,538
I think this is one of his best scenes
in any of the Marvel films.
194
00:09:42,291 --> 00:09:47,045
But he's clearly feeling
an incredible amount of guilt.
195
00:09:47,129 --> 00:09:49,923
He's probably drugged up here.
196
00:09:50,007 --> 00:09:53,093
McFEELY: Right.
JOE: And he can't hold back on Cap.
197
00:09:53,177 --> 00:09:55,345
McFEELY: You'll note that everyone,
if you examine this scene,
198
00:09:55,429 --> 00:09:57,890
pretty much everyone is on point
199
00:09:57,973 --> 00:10:00,976
in terms of their arc
going forward, right?
200
00:10:01,059 --> 00:10:03,479
Natasha, who is gonna remain
the woman on the wall.
201
00:10:03,562 --> 00:10:04,772
All her lines here are basically about,
202
00:10:04,855 --> 00:10:07,274
"We gotta do something.
We can't let this stand."
203
00:10:07,357 --> 00:10:08,650
Steve's very similar.
204
00:10:08,734 --> 00:10:12,863
Robert's... Sorry, Tony's close
to giving up here.
205
00:10:13,906 --> 00:10:16,909
He takes that loss as sort of a loss,
206
00:10:16,992 --> 00:10:18,577
not that there's another chance at it.
207
00:10:18,660 --> 00:10:20,954
Captain Marvel is all business.
208
00:10:21,038 --> 00:10:23,916
JOE: Well, he's a futurist
and he's exceedingly logical, Tony.
209
00:10:23,999 --> 00:10:29,296
And I think without the potential
210
00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:37,596
solve that Scott Lang brings by
coming out of the quantum realm,
211
00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,558
I think Tony correctly sees that
212
00:10:41,642 --> 00:10:43,519
- there is no way to solve this.
- McFEELY: Right.
213
00:10:43,602 --> 00:10:47,648
MARKUS: And Cap's essentially proposing
to do what Tony did in the last movie,
214
00:10:47,773 --> 00:10:50,901
which is take the fight to Thanos,
go out into space.
215
00:10:50,984 --> 00:10:52,486
He did it, he failed.
216
00:10:52,611 --> 00:10:54,905
JOE: Yeah, which Tony realizes
would be suicide.
217
00:10:54,988 --> 00:10:56,156
ANTHONY: To your point, Steve,
218
00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,911
even Banner's line here is just exactly
where he goes in the film,
219
00:11:00,994 --> 00:11:02,246
which is like,
220
00:11:02,329 --> 00:11:06,792
"Wait, we can't go back at it
with what we already tried."
221
00:11:06,875 --> 00:11:08,919
McFEELY: That's right, that's right.
"We gotta do something different."
222
00:11:09,002 --> 00:11:11,463
And Thor's, you know,
halfway to being depressed here,
223
00:11:11,547 --> 00:11:12,923
particularly in the next scene,
224
00:11:13,006 --> 00:11:14,716
where he's already drinking beer
and eating carbs.
225
00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,594
ANTHONY: Yeah, he's chomping
on a bread roll, if you notice.
226
00:11:17,678 --> 00:11:20,222
Hemsworth wanted to eat something
in this scene.
227
00:11:20,305 --> 00:11:21,557
McFEELY: Did he?
ANTHONY: Yeah.
228
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,350
MARKUS: Well, let's not forget
that there are two scenes
229
00:11:23,433 --> 00:11:25,269
that take place in this room.
230
00:11:25,352 --> 00:11:27,145
JOE: It's the scene prior to that.
231
00:11:28,897 --> 00:11:30,315
I said we'd lose.
232
00:11:31,775 --> 00:11:34,695
JOE: The moment here is one of
my favorite acting moments of the movie.
233
00:11:34,778 --> 00:11:36,113
We lost.
234
00:11:36,196 --> 00:11:37,197
And you weren't there.
235
00:11:38,699 --> 00:11:40,117
ANTHONY: When he calls him a liar?
236
00:11:41,785 --> 00:11:43,120
JOE: Yep.
237
00:11:44,997 --> 00:11:49,626
Again, this is their essential conflict,
and Tony can't get past it.
238
00:11:50,210 --> 00:11:53,171
That's the other thing that I think
five years helps with is that,
239
00:11:53,255 --> 00:11:56,884
you know, sometimes healing takes years.
240
00:12:00,721 --> 00:12:02,931
Captain Marvel
241
00:12:04,099 --> 00:12:09,271
is an interesting addition
to the situation
242
00:12:10,147 --> 00:12:13,358
because she is so powerful
243
00:12:14,151 --> 00:12:18,030
that she adds
a potential opportunity for them.
244
00:12:18,113 --> 00:12:23,702
So what Tony didn't see as a solution,
245
00:12:23,785 --> 00:12:26,997
Cap potentially does, coming up here.
246
00:12:28,206 --> 00:12:32,085
And he gets on board with her plan
to take the fight to him.
247
00:12:32,169 --> 00:12:34,796
McFEELY: And it should be noted,
people might know this already,
248
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,215
but that's basically Brie Larson's
first or second day as the character.
249
00:12:37,299 --> 00:12:40,093
JOE: I think that might have
been her first. Yeah.
250
00:12:40,177 --> 00:12:44,264
That might have been her first day there
if I remember correctly, that scene.
251
00:12:45,641 --> 00:12:48,810
ANTHONY: We shot this before
Captain Marvel was shot.
252
00:12:49,061 --> 00:12:50,228
I know people who might.
253
00:12:50,395 --> 00:12:51,730
NEBULA: Don't bother.
254
00:12:55,025 --> 00:12:57,778
JOE: When we sit down in the room,
we talk through storytelling.
255
00:12:57,861 --> 00:13:01,740
We try to just play logic games
with the narrative.
256
00:13:01,823 --> 00:13:03,575
"All right, what would you do?
257
00:13:03,659 --> 00:13:05,786
"What would you do
if you were these heroes
258
00:13:07,871 --> 00:13:11,375
"and Thanos destroyed half of life
in the universe?
259
00:13:12,793 --> 00:13:14,461
"How do you process it?
260
00:13:15,212 --> 00:13:18,090
"You can't give up. You're a hero,
261
00:13:18,173 --> 00:13:21,635
"even if that means
potential certain death."
262
00:13:21,718 --> 00:13:25,764
You've got a very powerful addition
in Captain Marvel.
263
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,852
And so what's fun about this for us
is that we're setting it up
264
00:13:30,936 --> 00:13:35,857
to play as if it's going to be
an action-adventure movie.
265
00:13:35,941 --> 00:13:38,735
The Avengers chasing Thanos
through space,
266
00:13:38,819 --> 00:13:41,113
trying to retrieve
the Gauntlet from him.
267
00:13:43,615 --> 00:13:45,534
MARKUS: "Let's go get
this son of a bitch"
268
00:13:45,617 --> 00:13:48,328
could not be more of a '80s, '90s
269
00:13:49,287 --> 00:13:50,706
trailer moment...
270
00:13:50,789 --> 00:13:52,958
ANTHONY: Misdirect.
MARKUS: Yeah, exactly.
271
00:13:53,041 --> 00:13:54,418
ANTHONY: It doesn't work.
272
00:13:56,962 --> 00:14:01,133
JOE: Trying to lead you
to that belief again,
273
00:14:01,216 --> 00:14:04,344
that the film is going
to go on a certain track.
274
00:14:04,469 --> 00:14:07,222
And then we completely
derail it in 10 minutes.
275
00:14:07,305 --> 00:14:10,058
ANTHONY: And to your point earlier,
Steve, about the lines in this scene...
276
00:14:10,142 --> 00:14:12,019
I mean, one thing
that's always amazed me
277
00:14:12,102 --> 00:14:14,354
about the work that you and Chris do is
278
00:14:14,438 --> 00:14:16,023
how you're able to, in these movies,
279
00:14:16,106 --> 00:14:19,234
as we've gotten larger
and larger ensembles,
280
00:14:19,317 --> 00:14:22,612
always being true to everybody's voice.
281
00:14:22,696 --> 00:14:26,950
Finding a way for everybody's voice
to ring true and matter,
282
00:14:30,078 --> 00:14:32,873
and cut through
the complexity of the story.
283
00:14:32,956 --> 00:14:34,207
I mean, it's amazing.
284
00:14:34,291 --> 00:14:36,835
McFEELY: In a good script,
you should be able to pick out a line,
285
00:14:36,918 --> 00:14:39,046
not tell me who said it,
286
00:14:39,129 --> 00:14:42,340
but I should be able to guess
who said it based on...
287
00:14:42,424 --> 00:14:45,635
MARKUS: If you find yourself
having a character say something
288
00:14:45,719 --> 00:14:48,847
that anybody in the room
could have said,
289
00:14:48,930 --> 00:14:52,142
then it's time to go back
to the drawing board,
290
00:14:52,225 --> 00:14:53,560
figure that out again.
291
00:14:55,771 --> 00:14:57,981
JOE: So, here the mission begins.
292
00:15:01,193 --> 00:15:03,737
One of our favorite shots in the film.
293
00:15:03,820 --> 00:15:05,572
Steve Rogers going to space
for the first time.
294
00:15:05,655 --> 00:15:08,617
McFEELY: It says a lot with very little.
It's nice.
295
00:15:12,704 --> 00:15:13,705
Okay.
296
00:15:14,122 --> 00:15:16,500
Who here hasn't been to space?
297
00:15:17,876 --> 00:15:19,002
- Why?
- (CAROL CHUCKLES)
298
00:15:19,169 --> 00:15:20,837
You better not throw up on my ship.
299
00:15:21,004 --> 00:15:22,297
Approaching jump in three...
300
00:15:22,714 --> 00:15:24,549
two, one.
301
00:15:38,313 --> 00:15:43,318
JOE: It's interesting seeing
the Avengers with Captain Marvel.
302
00:15:43,401 --> 00:15:49,658
I think that she dimensionalizes them
in a really great way.
303
00:15:49,741 --> 00:15:52,953
Just from a pure power standpoint
and what her abilities are.
304
00:15:53,036 --> 00:15:54,454
ANTHONY: She makes them feel
like children.
305
00:15:54,538 --> 00:15:55,956
McFEELY: That's what I was gonna ask.
What do you mean by that?
306
00:15:56,039 --> 00:15:57,415
Like, they all take a back seat?
307
00:15:57,499 --> 00:15:59,292
JOE: No, I just think it's like,
308
00:15:59,376 --> 00:16:02,129
if you're talking about
a collection of heroes,
309
00:16:02,212 --> 00:16:05,632
and you're gonna go face Thanos,
who still, we believe at this point,
310
00:16:05,715 --> 00:16:07,759
has the Gauntlet.
311
00:16:07,843 --> 00:16:13,098
You know, she is as powerful,
if not more powerful than Thor,
312
00:16:13,181 --> 00:16:15,934
and you suddenly have hope again.
313
00:16:16,017 --> 00:16:18,895
Because they all know what happened
at the end of the last movie.
314
00:16:18,979 --> 00:16:20,105
McFEELY: Right.
315
00:16:20,188 --> 00:16:21,731
JOE: He walked through them
like they were paper.
316
00:16:21,815 --> 00:16:22,941
McFEELY: Right.
317
00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:25,485
(BIRDS CHIRPING)
318
00:16:40,041 --> 00:16:42,419
McFEELY: Let's talk big picture here.
319
00:16:42,502 --> 00:16:44,713
Put yourselves in our positions.
320
00:16:44,796 --> 00:16:48,383
They're heading after a foe
who has the ultimate weapon,
321
00:16:48,466 --> 00:16:50,343
a comically powerful weapon.
322
00:16:50,427 --> 00:16:54,598
It allows him to do anything,
see anything...
323
00:16:55,348 --> 00:16:56,433
JOE: Control the universe.
324
00:16:56,516 --> 00:16:57,559
ANTHONY: We don't even know
the extent of it.
325
00:16:57,642 --> 00:16:58,643
McFEELY: The extent of it, right?
326
00:16:58,727 --> 00:17:00,770
So, he is basically omniscient
and omnipotent.
327
00:17:00,854 --> 00:17:02,731
MARKUS: And who beat them down silly...
328
00:17:02,814 --> 00:17:03,857
McFEELY: And he's
already done it once, right?
329
00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:04,941
MARKUS: ...in the last movie.
330
00:17:05,025 --> 00:17:06,610
McFEELY: So, how do you...
331
00:17:06,693 --> 00:17:09,571
What is a two-hour movie,
where you're playing cat and mouse
332
00:17:09,654 --> 00:17:11,573
with that guy or trying to get him,
333
00:17:11,656 --> 00:17:14,367
or punch him in the face,
or steal stones from him?
334
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:17,829
Even in the comics, which are lovely,
335
00:17:17,913 --> 00:17:20,874
he just sort of decides to tie
one hand behind his back.
336
00:17:20,957 --> 00:17:22,918
You know, that's how it's solved there.
337
00:17:23,001 --> 00:17:26,463
So, at one point in the room,
everyone's getting real frustrated,
338
00:17:26,546 --> 00:17:28,882
"What is the story here?"
339
00:17:28,965 --> 00:17:31,551
And I think Trinh Tran,
our executive producer, just said,
340
00:17:31,635 --> 00:17:33,887
"God, I really wish
we could just kill him."
341
00:17:33,970 --> 00:17:37,807
And we all went, "Wait a second.
Could you? What does that mean?"
342
00:17:37,891 --> 00:17:41,269
And it sent us down this whole road,
343
00:17:41,353 --> 00:17:44,773
where we solve the issue in the first,
what, 12 minutes?
344
00:17:44,856 --> 00:17:46,441
I don't know when this happens.
345
00:17:46,524 --> 00:17:49,986
JOE: Yeah, very, very quickly,
but what's great about it is that
346
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:52,572
it allows for a very different
kind of movie to unfold.
347
00:17:52,656 --> 00:17:53,657
McFEELY: That's the thing.
348
00:17:53,740 --> 00:17:54,908
MARKUS: And effectively.
349
00:17:57,118 --> 00:17:58,954
JOE: One that's reflective and pensive
350
00:17:59,037 --> 00:18:02,749
and character-orientated
rather than plot-orientated.
351
00:18:02,832 --> 00:18:06,795
MARKUS: And they only accomplish
what Thanos lets them accomplish.
352
00:18:06,878 --> 00:18:08,713
McFEELY: That's right.
That's why it makes sense.
353
00:18:08,797 --> 00:18:11,758
MARKUS: He has finished his job
and he lets them kill him.
354
00:18:11,883 --> 00:18:14,386
JOE: There's a little bit of an equation
355
00:18:14,469 --> 00:18:17,514
where, you know,
once you introduce a villain plot,
356
00:18:17,597 --> 00:18:19,599
it doesn't allow for...
357
00:18:19,683 --> 00:18:21,101
And then the heroes become aware of it,
358
00:18:21,184 --> 00:18:23,895
it does not allow for
a lot of character moments.
359
00:18:23,979 --> 00:18:27,732
So what's great about
what happens here is
360
00:18:27,816 --> 00:18:29,651
he disappears for a long time.
361
00:18:29,734 --> 00:18:32,279
McFEELY: Yeah. His reintroduction
is the midpoint.
362
00:18:32,362 --> 00:18:34,614
So he gets killed here.
363
00:18:34,698 --> 00:18:36,908
This is basically halfway
through Act One.
364
00:18:39,577 --> 00:18:42,831
(CHUCKLES) The Avengers are gonna
roll around in grief, you know?
365
00:18:42,914 --> 00:18:45,250
JOE: Which is great, 'cause we...
366
00:18:45,333 --> 00:18:48,795
The point of this film is to bring
to close those characters.
367
00:18:48,878 --> 00:18:51,548
We need to be re-reminded of who
they are and what they believe in,
368
00:18:51,631 --> 00:18:55,135
and what their emotional needs are.
369
00:18:55,218 --> 00:18:57,512
MARKUS: And we wanted to restate
370
00:18:57,595 --> 00:19:00,390
the finality of what happened
in Infinity War.
371
00:19:00,473 --> 00:19:02,809
There is no "Get Out of Jail Free" card.
372
00:19:02,892 --> 00:19:05,937
This isn't going to be, you know...
373
00:19:06,021 --> 00:19:09,024
"Did we not show you our hands
were crossed behind our back?"
374
00:19:09,899 --> 00:19:10,900
McFEELY: Right.
375
00:19:10,984 --> 00:19:12,527
MARKUS: Nope, we're cutting off heads.
376
00:19:12,610 --> 00:19:19,075
JOE: And this is where we understand
the pain that Thor is feeling,
377
00:19:20,243 --> 00:19:23,163
clearly, as he takes it out on Thanos.
378
00:19:23,246 --> 00:19:25,165
MARKUS: I love how empty that is.
379
00:19:25,248 --> 00:19:27,876
McFEELY: I was just saying it is,
but it's...
380
00:19:27,959 --> 00:19:29,753
It gets a laugh every time
I'm in the theater,
381
00:19:29,836 --> 00:19:31,629
or, like, a nervous shock, right?
382
00:19:31,713 --> 00:19:34,424
ANTHONY: People laugh at that,
and I was always shocked by that.
383
00:19:34,507 --> 00:19:37,385
McFEELY: But I think the Silvestri score
and the long slow walk here make you go,
384
00:19:37,469 --> 00:19:41,139
"Oh, crap. Yeah, this is...We got nothing now. (CHUCKLES)
385
00:19:41,264 --> 00:19:42,766
"Where is this movie going?"
386
00:19:42,891 --> 00:19:45,810
ANTHONY: I always loved Cap's reaction
to this here.
387
00:19:45,894 --> 00:19:47,562
It's so amazing what Evans did there.
388
00:19:47,645 --> 00:19:48,688
JOE: I think
it might be nervous laughter
389
00:19:48,772 --> 00:19:49,814
'cause it's subverting expectations.
390
00:19:49,898 --> 00:19:51,191
McFEELY: I think
it totally is nervous laughter.
391
00:19:51,274 --> 00:19:52,901
JOE: What story
are you going to follow now?
392
00:19:52,984 --> 00:19:54,527
Where the hell is this movie going?
393
00:19:54,611 --> 00:19:55,653
ANTHONY: I think
some people are delighted
394
00:19:55,737 --> 00:19:56,780
to see Thanos' head chopped off.
395
00:19:56,863 --> 00:19:58,281
MARKUS: I bet they are.
396
00:19:58,365 --> 00:20:01,451
And then these three words
do seem to set them back a bit.
397
00:20:01,910 --> 00:20:02,911
ANTHONY: Yeah.
McFEELY: Right.
398
00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:05,455
JOE: Well, we wanted them
to be resonate.
399
00:20:05,538 --> 00:20:08,500
It's the reason
that they come on so slowly,
400
00:20:08,583 --> 00:20:12,337
as sort of a, "I can't believe
they're actually doing this"
401
00:20:12,420 --> 00:20:13,922
as each word pops on.
402
00:20:14,005 --> 00:20:17,967
You'll notice that,
from a color timing standpoint,
403
00:20:18,051 --> 00:20:21,304
we've altered the mood
and the tone of the movie
404
00:20:21,388 --> 00:20:24,849
for, I think,
probably the next 20 minutes or so.
405
00:20:24,933 --> 00:20:26,142
McFEELY: You mean, it's cooler?
406
00:20:26,226 --> 00:20:29,396
JOE: It's cooler. It's drained of life.
407
00:20:31,439 --> 00:20:32,774
McFEELY: Sure, that makes sense.
408
00:20:32,857 --> 00:20:34,901
JOE: We went with a sort of
fluorescent green in this room.
409
00:20:34,984 --> 00:20:38,113
Everything feels
a little off and painful.
410
00:20:38,196 --> 00:20:39,614
McFEELY: Right.
411
00:20:42,867 --> 00:20:48,957
MARKUS: I love that we come back to this
very human recovery moment,
412
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,210
where it's not superheroes plotting,
413
00:20:53,545 --> 00:20:59,342
it's people just trying to get through
another day after this has happened.
414
00:20:59,426 --> 00:21:02,846
JOE: Well, I think you can count
on one hand in both movies,
415
00:21:02,929 --> 00:21:08,101
the times where we exit
the point of view of our heroes.
416
00:21:08,184 --> 00:21:09,727
McFEELY: Yeah, show regular people?
(CHUCKLES)
417
00:21:09,811 --> 00:21:11,104
JOE: We show regular people.
McFEELY: Yeah.
418
00:21:11,187 --> 00:21:12,564
ANTHONY: I remember us
talking about this.
419
00:21:12,647 --> 00:21:14,649
You know, it's like, yeah,
if you're gonna have a story point
420
00:21:14,732 --> 00:21:16,484
where you kill half
of all living things,
421
00:21:16,568 --> 00:21:18,278
you have to go beyond the heroes.
422
00:21:18,361 --> 00:21:19,571
McFEELY: Right.
MARKUS: Yeah.
423
00:21:19,654 --> 00:21:21,364
JOE: And seeing every person's
point of view of it,
424
00:21:21,448 --> 00:21:23,032
and how it affected the world.
425
00:21:23,116 --> 00:21:26,494
That was the intention with this scene,
was to just show you
426
00:21:26,578 --> 00:21:29,247
that everyone is in pain,
427
00:21:29,330 --> 00:21:32,959
and how would you recover
from this staggering event?
428
00:21:33,042 --> 00:21:37,547
MARKUS: And I think this is some of
the best acting Evans has done.
429
00:21:37,630 --> 00:21:39,591
ANTHONY: Evans?
McFEELY: Yeah, it's a lovely moment.
430
00:21:39,674 --> 00:21:41,676
JOE: He's very settled
and internal in the scene.
431
00:21:43,052 --> 00:21:45,597
MARKUS: He's feeling the exact opposite
of what he's saying.
432
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,933
JOE: That's another great moment.
Right there. You see it in his eyes.
433
00:21:49,017 --> 00:21:50,435
McFEELY: Yeah.
434
00:21:50,518 --> 00:21:51,561
ANTHONY: It's hard to get
Captain America
435
00:21:51,644 --> 00:21:52,687
to that kind of a moment.
436
00:21:52,770 --> 00:21:54,022
MARKUS: Yeah.
437
00:21:54,105 --> 00:21:56,691
McFEELY: So, again,
it's setting the stakes of the world.
438
00:21:56,774 --> 00:21:58,109
This is where we are now.
439
00:21:58,193 --> 00:22:00,361
It's also, just on a writing level,
440
00:22:00,445 --> 00:22:03,490
it's tagging Peggy Carter
for now the second time.
441
00:22:03,573 --> 00:22:08,536
It's preparing you for Cap's arc
over the course of the movie.
442
00:22:10,246 --> 00:22:13,750
ANTHONY: Talking about it, that's one of
my favorite lines in the whole movie...
443
00:22:15,001 --> 00:22:16,211
"Otherwise Thanos..."
444
00:22:16,294 --> 00:22:17,587
McFEELY: "...might as well
have killed all of us."
445
00:22:17,670 --> 00:22:18,671
ANTHONY: I love that line.
446
00:22:18,755 --> 00:22:21,382
MARKUS: And now, shortly,
you're about to be introduced
447
00:22:21,466 --> 00:22:24,052
to the hero of the entire film.
448
00:22:24,135 --> 00:22:26,679
McFEELY: Right.
MARKUS: The savior of the universe.
449
00:22:26,763 --> 00:22:29,057
JOE: The hero of the Infinity Saga.
450
00:22:29,140 --> 00:22:30,808
MARKUS: This rat.
451
00:22:34,687 --> 00:22:39,275
McFEELY: Now, we have a rule in writing
that, you know, sort of coincidences...
452
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,403
You're sort of allowed them in Act One.
(LAUGHS)
453
00:22:42,612 --> 00:22:45,782
A coincidence late in the movie
is perhaps lazy.
454
00:22:45,865 --> 00:22:48,117
I'm delighted
that a rat has saved the universe.
455
00:22:48,201 --> 00:22:49,953
ANTHONY: Yes.
McFEELY: But it absolutely is,
456
00:22:50,036 --> 00:22:51,579
you know, a coincidence.
457
00:22:51,663 --> 00:22:54,916
MARKUS: Well, when things like this
happen, often rats are all that's left.
458
00:22:54,999 --> 00:22:57,377
McFEELY: And arguably,
it's one in 14 million chances.
459
00:22:57,460 --> 00:23:00,880
JOE: I was gonna say, there were
14 million versions of this story
460
00:23:00,964 --> 00:23:03,383
where the rat
did not step on that button.
461
00:23:03,466 --> 00:23:05,718
MARKUS: And have you seen
the last of that rat?
462
00:23:05,802 --> 00:23:07,804
I don't know. (CHUCKLES)
463
00:23:09,472 --> 00:23:11,516
But here we have Scott Lang.
464
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:17,397
JOE: Now, what's wonderful at times
in Infinity War and Endgame
465
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,774
is taking characters, even in Civil War,
466
00:23:21,234 --> 00:23:24,028
who present in different tones
in their own franchises,
467
00:23:24,112 --> 00:23:25,905
and pulling them into this tone.
468
00:23:29,075 --> 00:23:32,787
And Paul Rudd's ability
to make you care about him
469
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:35,665
and feel vulnerable is exceptional.
470
00:23:35,748 --> 00:23:39,711
And I think watching what's happened
to the world through his eyes
471
00:23:39,794 --> 00:23:43,131
makes it even more painful
for us viewers.
472
00:23:43,214 --> 00:23:47,510
And truly for me,
one of the saddest moments in the film,
473
00:23:47,594 --> 00:23:48,845
and there are a few,
474
00:23:48,928 --> 00:23:50,805
is when he reconnects with his daughter.
475
00:23:50,888 --> 00:23:52,724
MARKUS: Yeah.
McFEELY: It gets very dusty...
476
00:23:52,807 --> 00:23:56,728
JOE: And it's his performance
in that moment, and just...
477
00:23:56,811 --> 00:24:00,940
When you have a character
that is traditionally funny,
478
00:24:01,024 --> 00:24:05,528
and now they're, you know,
they're surrounded by pathos,
479
00:24:06,613 --> 00:24:10,491
- it makes it doubly emotional for you.
- McFEELY: Right.
480
00:24:13,328 --> 00:24:16,122
I mean, really,
for regular humans, it's this...
481
00:24:16,664 --> 00:24:19,917
It's this San Francisco beat,
and it's the grief counseling scene,
482
00:24:20,001 --> 00:24:24,339
and that's pretty much where we go.
Everybody else is a superhero.
483
00:24:24,422 --> 00:24:28,676
ANTHONY: Well, it's also... Yeah.
That moment where he sees his daughter,
484
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,970
that's coming up here,
we must have dealt
485
00:24:31,054 --> 00:24:35,224
with that piece of footage
hundreds of times in the editing room,
486
00:24:35,308 --> 00:24:38,227
and I tear up
every single time I watch it.
487
00:24:38,311 --> 00:24:41,105
- I can't not tear up when I watch it.
- JOE: It's all in his face. It's just...
488
00:24:41,189 --> 00:24:42,273
MARKUS: Well, it's also...
489
00:24:42,357 --> 00:24:44,484
And I think it's an improv.
I don't remember writing it.
490
00:24:44,567 --> 00:24:48,488
When he says,
"You're so big," it kills me.
491
00:24:48,571 --> 00:24:50,740
JOE: Yeah.
ANTHONY: Yeah. He breaks on that.
492
00:24:50,823 --> 00:24:51,824
JOE: Now, this is sort of...
493
00:24:51,908 --> 00:24:54,285
We got to explore, I think,
with this five years later,
494
00:24:54,369 --> 00:24:59,290
a bit of "what if"
and how the world would be different.
495
00:24:59,374 --> 00:25:01,084
McFEELY: Yeah, that was one of
the ideas, was,
496
00:25:01,167 --> 00:25:03,920
you know, when Chris and I sat down,
497
00:25:04,003 --> 00:25:05,963
while we're all shooting Civil War.
498
00:25:06,047 --> 00:25:08,716
In the afternoons
when people are doing their jobs,
499
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,678
Chris and I had nothing to do,
so we came up with this manifesto,
500
00:25:11,761 --> 00:25:13,888
all the many, many things
you could do in these two movies,
501
00:25:13,971 --> 00:25:16,307
and one of them was,
you know, the "what if" section.
502
00:25:16,391 --> 00:25:21,854
What if we were able to show
alternate versions of our heroes?
503
00:25:21,938 --> 00:25:26,651
But instead of a fantasy,
it's really just the natural progression
504
00:25:26,734 --> 00:25:29,570
of a five-year jump
after a terrible event.
505
00:25:30,780 --> 00:25:34,325
So this, we did call this
sort of the "what if" section.
506
00:25:34,409 --> 00:25:38,705
JOE: And then infusing that
with emotion and real stakes.
507
00:25:38,788 --> 00:25:42,291
I think what is so sad about this scene
is that any parent,
508
00:25:42,375 --> 00:25:46,754
thinking about missing five years
of any of their children's lives...
509
00:25:46,838 --> 00:25:49,882
ANTHONY: Watch Paul Rudd.
JOE: ...is profound.
510
00:25:52,635 --> 00:25:53,678
ANTHONY: Watch.
511
00:25:54,887 --> 00:25:56,723
JOE: It's that look right there.
512
00:25:58,433 --> 00:25:59,892
He can't process it.
513
00:26:03,271 --> 00:26:04,856
McFEELY: He wants to cry. Yeah.
514
00:26:11,738 --> 00:26:13,364
- You're so big!
- (BOTH LAUGH)
515
00:26:13,448 --> 00:26:14,991
McFEELY: And he's 70 years old.
Like, it's crazy.
516
00:26:16,367 --> 00:26:18,411
- (LAUGHTER)
- He looks so good.
517
00:26:18,494 --> 00:26:20,621
ANTHONY: Steve, I was gonna mention
something just about our process,
518
00:26:20,705 --> 00:26:23,040
what you brought up before,
like, in the afternoons,
519
00:26:23,124 --> 00:26:25,668
you were saying when we're shooting
Civil War and you and Chris don't have
520
00:26:25,752 --> 00:26:28,087
anything necessarily to do.
521
00:26:28,171 --> 00:26:32,049
I mean, our process on set is always,
we start the mornings together
522
00:26:32,133 --> 00:26:36,387
when we're shooting because that's when
we'll typically rehearse a scene.
523
00:26:36,471 --> 00:26:39,891
And sometimes
during the rehearsal process,
524
00:26:39,974 --> 00:26:42,852
certain issues may come up
for a variety of reasons.
525
00:26:42,935 --> 00:26:47,523
We see how the scene's playing
and sometimes Steve and Chris
526
00:26:47,607 --> 00:26:50,193
will go away
and tweak the scene a little bit
527
00:26:50,276 --> 00:26:53,529
while the actors are getting ready
before we actually start shooting.
528
00:26:53,613 --> 00:26:56,032
And it's usually pretty minor stuff,
529
00:26:56,741 --> 00:26:58,701
but it's kind of how we get through
our shoot day.
530
00:26:58,785 --> 00:27:01,078
McFEELY: And that can happen on...
Big movies can allow that
531
00:27:01,162 --> 00:27:03,623
because we're probably shooting
one scene all day.
532
00:27:03,706 --> 00:27:04,832
MARKUS: Yeah.
McFEELY: It's different than television,
533
00:27:04,916 --> 00:27:08,753
where you might be doing eight pages,
and that's several scenes.
534
00:27:09,086 --> 00:27:13,007
But, again, the screenwriter
on a big Marvel movie is...
535
00:27:13,090 --> 00:27:14,675
It's important to have around
for the first couple hours,
536
00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:17,386
and then we'll go to craft services
and have a bagel.
537
00:27:17,470 --> 00:27:19,514
MARKUS: That's why
we're all 300 pounds right now.
538
00:27:19,597 --> 00:27:20,598
ANTHONY: Yeah.
539
00:27:20,681 --> 00:27:22,099
Balance in all things, guys.
540
00:27:22,183 --> 00:27:26,395
MARKUS: This scene
is Natasha on the wall.
541
00:27:26,479 --> 00:27:31,067
This is the way she has responded
to what has happened.
542
00:27:31,150 --> 00:27:36,364
She refuses to let up, even if it seems
somewhat pointless by this point.
543
00:27:37,031 --> 00:27:38,032
Where are you?
544
00:27:38,199 --> 00:27:39,200
RHODES: Mexico.
545
00:27:39,283 --> 00:27:41,536
The Federales found
a room full of bodies.
546
00:27:41,619 --> 00:27:44,705
MARKUS: And Scarlett is great here.
ANTHONY: Yeah.
547
00:27:47,708 --> 00:27:51,796
JOE: Yeah, I think
Scarlett's fantastic at really
548
00:27:52,964 --> 00:27:57,051
conveying the internal life of Widow,
549
00:27:57,134 --> 00:28:01,097
who, to me,
is one of my favorite characters.
550
00:28:01,180 --> 00:28:03,516
Again, for characters
who can travel a distance,
551
00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:08,145
if we find that that creates
the richest arc for them...
552
00:28:08,229 --> 00:28:09,772
She starts as a villain.
553
00:28:10,648 --> 00:28:14,151
Of course, not on screen,
but, you know, you go back to,
554
00:28:14,235 --> 00:28:18,239
I think one of the most critical scenes
in the life of her character
555
00:28:18,322 --> 00:28:24,453
is in the bedroom in Winter Soldier,
between her and Steve Rogers
556
00:28:24,537 --> 00:28:29,750
where she still is,
she's still committed
557
00:28:29,834 --> 00:28:35,047
to morally gray,
to a morally gray existence.
558
00:28:35,131 --> 00:28:36,799
And Steve says to her,
559
00:28:36,883 --> 00:28:40,011
"I can't trust you if you stay there,
if you stay in that space."
560
00:28:40,094 --> 00:28:41,095
McFEELY: Right.
MARKUS: Yeah.
561
00:28:41,178 --> 00:28:43,139
JOE: "We can't have a relationship
that extends beyond..."
562
00:28:43,222 --> 00:28:47,018
McFEELY: That perspective was her armor.
And over the course of several movies,
563
00:28:47,101 --> 00:28:51,981
she put that down and embraced
a more heroic point of view,
564
00:28:52,064 --> 00:28:55,234
so much so
that she's the last person on the wall.
565
00:28:55,318 --> 00:28:59,530
Really, the point here is that
Captain America is thinking of giving up
566
00:28:59,614 --> 00:29:01,115
- and Natasha is not.
- JOE: He comes here to convince her
567
00:29:01,198 --> 00:29:03,034
- that maybe it's time to move on.
- McFEELY: Yes.
568
00:29:03,117 --> 00:29:06,078
JOE: And that this is
an unsolvable problem.
569
00:29:06,162 --> 00:29:09,373
And that maybe they should
just focus on the future
570
00:29:09,457 --> 00:29:11,667
and how to take care of people
moving forward
571
00:29:11,751 --> 00:29:13,920
because they can't fix what's happened.
572
00:29:14,003 --> 00:29:16,964
My favorite scenes always,
in all the movies we've done,
573
00:29:17,048 --> 00:29:19,967
- are between Steve and Natasha.
- McFEELY: Yeah.
574
00:29:20,635 --> 00:29:22,929
ANTHONY: Think about
how complex this scene is for her.
575
00:29:23,012 --> 00:29:26,015
'Cause yet again,
it speaks to the very complex history
576
00:29:26,098 --> 00:29:28,809
that she's had with Steve Rogers, right?
577
00:29:28,893 --> 00:29:32,438
For Natasha, but also her complex...
The whole scene started, you know...
578
00:29:32,521 --> 00:29:34,941
Earlier is about her complex history
with Hawkeye.
579
00:29:35,024 --> 00:29:36,317
McFEELY: Right.
ANTHONY: You know, it's just like...
580
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,694
JOE: Well, you know,
she goes on a journey
581
00:29:38,778 --> 00:29:41,280
from individualism to community.
582
00:29:41,364 --> 00:29:44,450
- She is becoming part of a family.
- McFEELY: Right.
583
00:29:44,533 --> 00:29:47,662
JOE: And the Avengers are her family,
and the world is becoming her family.
584
00:29:47,745 --> 00:29:50,289
And she, you know... Scenes that I love
585
00:29:50,373 --> 00:29:52,458
are her in the bedroom
with Cap in Winter Soldier,
586
00:29:52,541 --> 00:29:54,669
her in the church in Civil War,
587
00:29:54,752 --> 00:29:55,795
where she says, you know...
588
00:29:55,878 --> 00:29:56,921
McFEELY:
"I didn't want you to be alone."
589
00:29:57,004 --> 00:29:59,799
JOE: "Keeping the family together
is more important."
590
00:29:59,882 --> 00:30:00,883
McFEELY: Right.
JOE: Right?
591
00:30:00,967 --> 00:30:04,428
Now, she's traveling a distance.
She's becoming a leader.
592
00:30:04,512 --> 00:30:08,432
And she's understanding
the value of community over self,
593
00:30:08,516 --> 00:30:11,394
which is something that she gained
594
00:30:11,477 --> 00:30:14,146
from her experience
with Steve in Winter Soldier.
595
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:17,191
And here, and this is what
we're gonna track
596
00:30:17,274 --> 00:30:22,238
all the way up to that cliff in Vormir,
is her willingness to self-sacrifice
597
00:30:22,321 --> 00:30:25,116
to bring back
the community and the family
598
00:30:25,199 --> 00:30:26,701
and make it whole again.
599
00:30:26,826 --> 00:30:29,245
I think we both need to get a life.
600
00:30:31,664 --> 00:30:33,082
You first.
601
00:30:35,918 --> 00:30:37,253
(DEVICE CHIMES)
602
00:30:38,629 --> 00:30:41,090
SCOTT: (ON SPEAKERS) Oh, hi, hi!Uh, is anyone home?
603
00:30:41,257 --> 00:30:42,967
This is, uh, Scott Lang.
604
00:30:43,968 --> 00:30:46,053
JOE: Now, the plot begins.
605
00:30:46,137 --> 00:30:48,264
ANTHONY: Right.
McFEELY: It's basically the act break.
606
00:30:48,347 --> 00:30:50,474
ANTHONY: The plot begins,
and also we get to watch
607
00:30:50,558 --> 00:30:53,477
- the amazing dexterity of Paul Rudd.
- McFEELY: Yeah.
608
00:30:53,561 --> 00:30:55,229
ANTHONY: This scene is...
The way he can dance...
609
00:30:55,312 --> 00:30:57,231
McFEELY: Right,
'cause it's pure exposition.
610
00:30:57,314 --> 00:31:00,192
This is some broccoli, some vegetables.
You gotta get through this scene.
611
00:31:00,276 --> 00:31:01,318
JOE: And the direction was...
612
00:31:01,402 --> 00:31:03,571
ANTHONY: But he's carrying
emotional weight in this scene,
613
00:31:03,654 --> 00:31:05,698
but he's also very funny.
It's very complex.
614
00:31:05,781 --> 00:31:07,074
JOE: Well, he's only had
615
00:31:07,158 --> 00:31:09,702
a very limited amount of time
to process what's happened.
616
00:31:09,785 --> 00:31:11,037
Everyone else has had five years.
617
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,872
McFEELY: Well, however long it takes
to drive across the country.
618
00:31:12,955 --> 00:31:16,000
JOE: Exactly, he got in the van,
drove across country.
619
00:31:16,083 --> 00:31:19,545
He's frantic, he hasn't slept.
He thinks he may have a solution,
620
00:31:19,628 --> 00:31:22,006
and he goes to the only people
he knows who might,
621
00:31:22,089 --> 00:31:25,843
one, believe him,
and, two, be able to execute the plan.
622
00:31:26,594 --> 00:31:30,181
Or at least, you know, help him
move forward with his thoughts.
623
00:31:34,018 --> 00:31:36,312
ANTHONY: This is a great moment
where you guys wrote a great line,
624
00:31:36,395 --> 00:31:39,398
and the actor just fully nails it,
when he...
625
00:31:39,482 --> 00:31:41,275
What's his prelude line
to where he goes,
626
00:31:41,358 --> 00:31:42,943
"Is that anybody's sandwich?"
627
00:31:43,694 --> 00:31:45,654
- It's totally unpredictable.
- McFEELY: Oh, God.
628
00:31:45,738 --> 00:31:48,074
MARKUS: I forget what he...
McFEELY: That's right, that's right.
629
00:31:49,575 --> 00:31:52,787
MARKUS: But, yeah, that sandwich
is the secret star of this scene.
630
00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:54,955
McFEELY: I think it's just 'cause I like
peanut butter sandwiches.
631
00:31:55,414 --> 00:31:57,875
ANTHONY: (CHUCKLES) Who doesn't?
632
00:31:58,959 --> 00:32:00,211
(MUFFLED) So...
633
00:32:01,212 --> 00:32:02,671
what I'm saying is...
634
00:32:02,755 --> 00:32:04,757
JOE: Again, when you take a character
635
00:32:07,384 --> 00:32:11,555
that normally presents
as funny, and you...
636
00:32:13,891 --> 00:32:17,103
You put the burden of stakes on him
637
00:32:17,186 --> 00:32:20,397
that are, you know, half the universe,
638
00:32:20,481 --> 00:32:23,067
it unlocks something else in him
as a character,
639
00:32:23,150 --> 00:32:26,695
and this frantic, desperate quality,
640
00:32:26,779 --> 00:32:32,576
I think is really a unique shade
for Scott Lang.
641
00:32:32,660 --> 00:32:34,703
McFEELY: Yeah, he carries that
into the next scene with Tony.
642
00:32:34,787 --> 00:32:37,414
- He sort of gets into it with him.
- JOE: Yeah.
643
00:32:37,498 --> 00:32:39,166
MARKUS: It's also... This is, you know,
644
00:32:40,251 --> 00:32:43,587
sort of mirrors us sitting in a room,
trying to figure out
645
00:32:43,671 --> 00:32:45,172
how the hell to get out of the corner
646
00:32:45,256 --> 00:32:47,967
we wrote ourselves in
at the end of Infinity War,
647
00:32:48,050 --> 00:32:51,053
and entertaining
the idea of a time machine,
648
00:32:51,137 --> 00:32:52,179
and then feeling that
649
00:32:52,263 --> 00:32:54,306
that was the stupidest idea
you could possibly have,
650
00:32:54,390 --> 00:32:58,102
but then realizing
that the Ant-Man franchise,
651
00:32:58,185 --> 00:33:00,104
which we hadn't dealt with yet,
652
00:33:00,187 --> 00:33:03,065
had legitimately,
if you believe the science,
653
00:33:03,149 --> 00:33:06,443
the seeds of a time machine in it,
654
00:33:06,527 --> 00:33:08,988
which was a breakthrough.
655
00:33:09,071 --> 00:33:10,072
ANTHONY: That's a good point, Chris.
656
00:33:10,156 --> 00:33:12,992
We do all qualify a lot of our pitches
to one another with,
657
00:33:13,075 --> 00:33:14,285
- "It's crazy. It's crazy."
-MARKUS: (CHUCKLES) Yeah.
658
00:33:14,368 --> 00:33:16,120
McFEELY: "It's crazy. It's crazy.
I know it's crazy. We should stop."
659
00:33:16,203 --> 00:33:17,705
- I get emails...
- MARKUS: "Okay, this sucks, but..."
660
00:33:17,788 --> 00:33:21,417
JOE: Ultimately we realized that, look,
661
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:23,127
time travel doesn't exist.
662
00:33:23,210 --> 00:33:29,216
(CHUCKLES) So it is a ludicrous notion.It's a construct of genre filmmaking.
663
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:33,721
And, you know, I think when
we all bought in on it
664
00:33:33,804 --> 00:33:36,515
was when we realized
the emotional scenes
665
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:39,852
that could take place
between the characters
666
00:33:39,935 --> 00:33:43,689
and people that they loved
who are no longer with them.
667
00:33:43,772 --> 00:33:46,358
McFEELY: It's those scenes, we'll get
to them, are gonna do many things.
668
00:33:46,442 --> 00:33:49,403
They're gonna collect stones,
but they're gonna repair people.
669
00:33:49,987 --> 00:33:52,406
JOE: So, ultimately,
if you're entertained
670
00:33:52,489 --> 00:33:55,492
by them coming up with the plan,
671
00:33:55,576 --> 00:33:58,162
executing the plan, and then
you're emotionally fulfilled
672
00:33:58,245 --> 00:34:00,539
by what they do
while they're executing the plan,
673
00:34:00,623 --> 00:34:02,750
- it's worth the construct.
- ANTHONY: That's a nice Audi.
674
00:34:08,714 --> 00:34:10,090
MARKUS: Speaking of emotional change,
675
00:34:10,174 --> 00:34:13,719
seeing Tony with his daughter
is a whole new Tony.
676
00:34:13,802 --> 00:34:17,473
McFEELY: Right. It's a brand-new Tony.It gives him stakes immediately.
677
00:34:17,556 --> 00:34:19,558
Tiny thing, it's planting Rescue
678
00:34:19,642 --> 00:34:22,519
so that Pepper in armor
doesn't come out of nowhere.
679
00:34:23,479 --> 00:34:25,981
Quantum fluctuation
messes with the Planck scale...
680
00:34:26,065 --> 00:34:28,859
which then triggers the Deutsch
Proposition. Can we agree on that?
681
00:34:28,943 --> 00:34:33,072
JOE: Tony's only choice here
is to protect his family.
682
00:34:33,155 --> 00:34:34,156
McFEELY: Right.
683
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:36,242
JOE: Because what they
are recommending could,
684
00:34:37,576 --> 00:34:39,703
A, kill them,
685
00:34:40,996 --> 00:34:45,626
B, mess with the current status quo.
686
00:34:45,709 --> 00:34:47,127
McFEELY: In some unspecified way.
687
00:34:47,211 --> 00:34:49,630
JOE: They could do
something irreversible
688
00:34:49,713 --> 00:34:52,132
that could take his daughter
away from him.
689
00:34:52,216 --> 00:34:54,051
McFEELY: Right.
MARKUS: And that's very much a new Tony.
690
00:34:54,134 --> 00:34:58,347
I mean, contrast this guy with,
say, the one who testified
691
00:34:58,430 --> 00:35:01,600
in front of Congress in Iron Man 2.
He was just...
692
00:35:01,684 --> 00:35:03,686
"I'll do whatever I want
with my technology,
693
00:35:03,769 --> 00:35:06,188
"and everything will be fine,
'cause I'm Tony Stark."
694
00:35:06,272 --> 00:35:08,565
Here he's a very cautious,
695
00:35:08,649 --> 00:35:11,944
- protective kind of person.
- JOE: Wizened.
696
00:35:12,027 --> 00:35:14,029
McFEELY: And just on a blunt level,
it's the hero
697
00:35:14,113 --> 00:35:15,364
refusing the call to action.
698
00:35:15,906 --> 00:35:17,950
JOE: Well, and what Tony does is
699
00:35:19,201 --> 00:35:22,579
he takes all of his energy
and puts it behind
700
00:35:22,663 --> 00:35:24,415
whatever his point of view is.
701
00:35:25,582 --> 00:35:27,710
He does it in Civil War.
He does it here.
702
00:35:27,793 --> 00:35:28,794
McFEELY: That's true.
703
00:35:28,877 --> 00:35:30,379
...is based on Back to the Future?
704
00:35:31,505 --> 00:35:33,007
- Is it?
- No.
705
00:35:33,424 --> 00:35:34,508
Good. You had me
worried there.
706
00:35:34,591 --> 00:35:35,592
'Cause that would be
horseshit.
707
00:35:35,676 --> 00:35:39,430
JOE: His belief system is critical
to who he is as a character.
708
00:35:40,889 --> 00:35:44,101
Even though it's buried,
709
00:35:44,184 --> 00:35:45,394
or he buries it,
710
00:35:47,062 --> 00:35:52,401
and uses a layer of snark and humor
to, you know, cover that...
711
00:35:53,861 --> 00:35:58,032
What we'll discover later in the movie
is a very big heart.
712
00:35:58,115 --> 00:35:59,116
McFEELY: Right.
713
00:35:59,825 --> 00:36:02,494
...to bring everyone back, and you're
telling me that you won't even...
714
00:36:02,661 --> 00:36:04,455
That's right, Scott.
I won't even.
715
00:36:04,621 --> 00:36:06,707
JOE: And this was a tough scene,
716
00:36:07,916 --> 00:36:12,755
I think to write and to execute
because, you know, they are coming to
717
00:36:14,131 --> 00:36:17,051
perhaps the greatest hero
in the Marvel Universe
718
00:36:17,134 --> 00:36:19,720
and asking him
to help reverse what has been done.
719
00:36:19,803 --> 00:36:20,804
McFEELY: Right.
720
00:36:20,888 --> 00:36:25,225
JOE: And he needs to have an emotional
reason to tell them no.
721
00:36:25,309 --> 00:36:29,188
McFEELY: Right, and they can't express
it so much. This is delicate.
722
00:36:29,271 --> 00:36:30,731
You can't hammer home the point, like,
723
00:36:30,814 --> 00:36:34,651
"You should risk your daughter's life
on this plan." (CHUCKLES) Right?
724
00:36:34,735 --> 00:36:36,612
JOE: Steve knows it.
It's the look in his eyes.
725
00:36:36,695 --> 00:36:38,280
It's what he says.
726
00:36:38,364 --> 00:36:40,157
"Well, he's not wrong.
727
00:36:40,949 --> 00:36:43,786
"We could be messing with things here
that we don't understand."
728
00:36:43,869 --> 00:36:45,162
ANTHONY: Well, that's the thing, too.
729
00:36:45,245 --> 00:36:47,998
The premise here
is a very complicated premise, right?
730
00:36:48,582 --> 00:36:52,044
You know, bringing people back
from five years ago
731
00:36:52,127 --> 00:36:55,506
is a messy proposition
any way you look at it,
732
00:36:57,383 --> 00:36:59,426
not even talking about
the time travel complexities of it.
733
00:36:59,510 --> 00:37:02,429
You know, that's something I know
some people like to think about,
734
00:37:02,513 --> 00:37:03,639
after watching the movie...
735
00:37:03,722 --> 00:37:05,224
McFEELY: It's like,
if you were in a plane,
736
00:37:05,307 --> 00:37:07,184
what happens now when you come back?
737
00:37:07,267 --> 00:37:09,269
ANTHONY: Or what happens to everybody
who's remarried...
738
00:37:09,353 --> 00:37:11,730
McFEELY: That's right.
JOE: Or you have kids. How do you...
739
00:37:11,814 --> 00:37:14,858
But that's, I think, one of the most
compelling things about the movie,
740
00:37:14,942 --> 00:37:17,277
is doubling down at the end
and not reversing it.
741
00:37:17,361 --> 00:37:18,487
McFEELY: Oh, right, yeah.
742
00:37:18,570 --> 00:37:19,988
JOE: So the Marvel Universe,
moving forward,
743
00:37:20,072 --> 00:37:21,615
takes place five years in the future,
744
00:37:21,698 --> 00:37:25,077
- and it's a really complicated future.
- McFEELY: We gotta own it.
745
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,079
JOE: So we gotta talk about
Professor Hulk here.
746
00:37:27,162 --> 00:37:29,915
McFEELY: Yes, we called him Smart Hulk
throughout the shoot.
747
00:37:29,998 --> 00:37:33,752
I guess it's okay to talk about
how his arc, this event,
748
00:37:33,836 --> 00:37:38,382
the creation of Smart Hulk,
used to take place in Infinity War.
749
00:37:38,465 --> 00:37:40,426
He was fighting in Wakanda.
750
00:37:40,509 --> 00:37:41,927
The whole arc of the story
751
00:37:42,010 --> 00:37:44,680
was Banner and Hulk
were not getting along.
752
00:37:44,763 --> 00:37:46,348
Hulk wouldn't come out to help him.
753
00:37:46,432 --> 00:37:50,436
And at his hour of greatest need,
they make some sort of compromise,
754
00:37:50,519 --> 00:37:53,480
and Smart Hulk rips out of the armor
755
00:37:53,564 --> 00:37:56,900
and beats the crap out of Cull Obsidian
and destroys him.
756
00:37:56,984 --> 00:38:03,073
It was pretty clear that the movie
could not handle this weird success.
757
00:38:03,157 --> 00:38:05,534
The movie needed to just stay
758
00:38:05,617 --> 00:38:09,288
in its succession of losses
in the third act,
759
00:38:09,371 --> 00:38:15,502
which meant some hustling
on the part of VFX late in the game.
760
00:38:15,586 --> 00:38:17,546
MARKUS: Yeah, cutting that out
was a decision made
761
00:38:17,629 --> 00:38:20,340
during the editing process
on Infinity War,
762
00:38:21,467 --> 00:38:23,802
by which point
we had already shot Endgame.
763
00:38:23,886 --> 00:38:28,140
JOE: We had shown it to a few audience,
to a few test audiences,
764
00:38:28,682 --> 00:38:30,017
and none of them would accept it.
765
00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:31,810
I think it was just happening
too quickly.
766
00:38:31,894 --> 00:38:33,729
ANTHONY: Maybe that's it.
We just didn't have enough...
767
00:38:33,812 --> 00:38:35,814
'Cause we were in the climax
of the movie,
768
00:38:35,898 --> 00:38:40,319
I don't think we had enough space
to really tell that story...
769
00:38:40,402 --> 00:38:43,030
McFEELY: We did not have it.
JOE: ...in a way that felt satisfying,
770
00:38:43,113 --> 00:38:44,907
where you weren't just focusing on,
771
00:38:44,990 --> 00:38:47,534
"Oh, my God, there's a madman
with almost a complete Gauntlet
772
00:38:47,618 --> 00:38:49,161
"who's gonna undo half the universe."
773
00:38:49,244 --> 00:38:50,412
McFEELY: Right,
imagine before Thanos shows up,
774
00:38:50,496 --> 00:38:53,749
we had a scene
where Hulk comes out of the bushes,
775
00:38:53,832 --> 00:38:56,752
and Natasha says,
"Hey, big guy, sun's getting low."
776
00:38:56,835 --> 00:38:59,546
And he says, "Oh, Natasha, that's not...
We don't need that now."
777
00:38:59,630 --> 00:39:01,590
You know, and speaks in perfect English,
778
00:39:01,673 --> 00:39:04,384
and you're supposed to be
kind of delighted and jarred by it,
779
00:39:05,177 --> 00:39:08,347
and then they're all gonna get dusted.
It was just tonally off.
780
00:39:08,430 --> 00:39:11,975
JOE: Instead, they were all jarred.
McFEELY: (CHUCKLES) That's right.
781
00:39:12,059 --> 00:39:15,938
ANTHONY: It's amazing how well it worked
out because the fact that in five years,
782
00:39:16,021 --> 00:39:20,150
I mean, one of the great joys
of this was thinking about
783
00:39:20,234 --> 00:39:22,236
how every Avenger has their own
784
00:39:22,319 --> 00:39:25,280
unique road forward
through those five years,
785
00:39:25,364 --> 00:39:29,117
and that gave Banner
a very unique road, and probably,
786
00:39:29,201 --> 00:39:30,494
perhaps the most exciting road.
787
00:39:30,577 --> 00:39:34,414
McFEELY: Well, the snap worked out
for him in a way, right?
788
00:39:34,498 --> 00:39:38,085
He is his best self. He is sort of
the last remaining superhero.
789
00:39:38,168 --> 00:39:41,004
Many Russos want to take pictures
with him in the diner.
790
00:39:41,088 --> 00:39:44,758
For most other people,
I guess Tony aside, it didn't work out.
791
00:39:44,841 --> 00:39:46,718
JOE: Yes, that was
my other daughter, Lia.
792
00:39:46,802 --> 00:39:49,471
I have to mention that,
so I don't get in trouble.
793
00:39:49,555 --> 00:39:51,890
- (McFEELY LAUGHS)
- The other thing, yes,
794
00:39:51,974 --> 00:39:54,935
I think the core conflict
of who Banner is,
795
00:39:55,018 --> 00:39:59,273
is that there are two characters
fighting over a host body,
796
00:39:59,356 --> 00:40:00,691
and they hate each other,
797
00:40:00,774 --> 00:40:03,318
and that's been the story
with him for years.
798
00:40:03,402 --> 00:40:07,155
At some point, Banner,
who's an intelligent human being,
799
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,742
decides, "What if we put the hate aside,
800
00:40:10,826 --> 00:40:14,621
"and we try to resolve this
in a way that is holistic?"
801
00:40:14,705 --> 00:40:16,331
And he merges the two of them.
802
00:40:16,415 --> 00:40:17,457
Shit!
803
00:40:17,541 --> 00:40:18,709
MORGAN STARK: Shit!
804
00:40:23,130 --> 00:40:24,840
(WHISPERS) What are you
doing up, little miss?
805
00:40:25,007 --> 00:40:26,717
- Shit.
- Nope. We don't say that.
806
00:40:26,883 --> 00:40:28,093
Only Mommy says that word.
807
00:40:28,260 --> 00:40:29,678
She coined it. It belongs to her.
808
00:40:29,761 --> 00:40:30,804
Why are you up?
809
00:40:30,887 --> 00:40:32,347
JOE: And then we should catch up now.
810
00:40:32,848 --> 00:40:36,852
We just saw, a second ago,
Tony with Peter Parker's photo.
811
00:40:37,394 --> 00:40:40,689
Clearly, this is like his other child
that he's lost.
812
00:40:40,772 --> 00:40:41,815
You know, and that's...
813
00:40:41,898 --> 00:40:44,443
McFEELY: It spurs him to action?
JOE: Spurs him to action.
814
00:40:44,526 --> 00:40:47,487
Makes him consider that, you know,
815
00:40:47,571 --> 00:40:51,074
even though he has this child,
he still lost a child,
816
00:40:51,158 --> 00:40:54,328
and there may be potential
to bring that other child back,
817
00:40:54,411 --> 00:40:57,164
and he's now in conflict.
818
00:40:57,247 --> 00:40:59,458
McFEELY: Right.
JOE: He solves...
819
00:40:59,541 --> 00:41:01,585
McFEELY: Time travel,
relatively quickly.
820
00:41:01,668 --> 00:41:03,420
MARKUS: Well, he's been given...
821
00:41:03,503 --> 00:41:05,213
JOE: Built on the shoulders of Hank Pym,
by the way.
822
00:41:05,297 --> 00:41:09,092
MARKUS: Yeah, Hank Pym and Scott Lang
have given him a scientific lead,
823
00:41:09,176 --> 00:41:11,887
and Tony has never been able
to let one of those lie.
824
00:41:13,513 --> 00:41:14,681
Love you tons.
825
00:41:15,432 --> 00:41:16,600
MARKUS: And of course...
826
00:41:16,683 --> 00:41:18,518
I love you 3,000.
827
00:41:19,019 --> 00:41:22,689
MARKUS: "I love you 3,000,"
which is now a meme and a T-shirt.
828
00:41:28,111 --> 00:41:30,989
(WHISPERS) 3,000.
That's crazy.
829
00:41:31,907 --> 00:41:33,450
Go to bed...
830
00:41:33,533 --> 00:41:35,160
McFEELY: Robert's ridiculously good
with kids.
831
00:41:35,243 --> 00:41:36,495
ANTHONY: Really.
832
00:41:36,578 --> 00:41:37,788
I hear from a lot of people
833
00:41:37,871 --> 00:41:39,164
that some of their favorite scenes
in the movie
834
00:41:39,247 --> 00:41:41,708
are when Tony is being a father
835
00:41:42,626 --> 00:41:44,127
with his daughter here.
836
00:41:44,836 --> 00:41:47,714
Some people just love to see
that dimension of him.
837
00:41:51,551 --> 00:41:58,517
JOE: And this is him basically
asking Pepper for permission.
838
00:41:59,601 --> 00:42:01,561
McFEELY: Right. He doesn't make
decisions on his own anymore.
839
00:42:01,645 --> 00:42:03,772
It's five years later.
He's a family man.
840
00:42:05,399 --> 00:42:08,068
JOE: And, again,
he knows what's at stake.
841
00:42:08,860 --> 00:42:11,446
And he's seeking counsel here
842
00:42:13,198 --> 00:42:16,243
from the smartest person in his life.
843
00:42:18,495 --> 00:42:20,080
ANTHONY: I think he regrets
what he's done.
844
00:42:20,163 --> 00:42:22,499
He just needs her to...
845
00:42:22,749 --> 00:42:24,209
That's right.
846
00:42:25,961 --> 00:42:30,632
JOE: And she points out
the essential conflict to him as a hero,
847
00:42:30,716 --> 00:42:34,219
which is he can never rest
848
00:42:35,887 --> 00:42:37,055
until everyone is safe.
849
00:42:37,139 --> 00:42:38,765
Nope. And I can't help everybody.
850
00:42:38,974 --> 00:42:40,517
MARKUS: Which will come back.
851
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:41,935
Sorta seems like you can.
852
00:42:42,018 --> 00:42:43,645
Not if I stop.
853
00:42:44,813 --> 00:42:47,691
I can put a pin in it
right now and stop.
854
00:42:48,775 --> 00:42:49,860
JOE: Again, another...
855
00:42:51,153 --> 00:42:52,779
McFEELY: Adults in the room talking.
JOE: Yeah.
856
00:42:52,863 --> 00:42:55,449
McFEELY: This is why I'm particularly
proud of the movie,
857
00:42:55,532 --> 00:42:58,410
but I also recognize it's different
than many of the other Marvel movies.
858
00:42:58,493 --> 00:43:03,415
It's three hours
in part because we let people talk
859
00:43:03,498 --> 00:43:06,001
and work stuff out,
and it's not all action.
860
00:43:06,084 --> 00:43:09,129
I mean, there's no action in this movie
until the third act.
861
00:43:09,212 --> 00:43:10,297
MARKUS: There's a lot of humanity
in here.
862
00:43:10,380 --> 00:43:11,465
ANTHONY: Yeah.
863
00:43:11,548 --> 00:43:14,384
JOE: Sublime acting on both parts.
McFEELY: Well, that, too, for sure.
864
00:43:14,468 --> 00:43:16,887
ANTHONY: This part of the movie
is not for the six-year-olds.
865
00:43:16,970 --> 00:43:18,263
McFEELY: No.
MARKUS: And yet,
866
00:43:18,346 --> 00:43:20,307
I don't think they mind.
867
00:43:20,807 --> 00:43:22,559
McFEELY: Smart, hip six-year-olds.
868
00:43:22,642 --> 00:43:24,519
JOE: Every time Gwyneth Paltrow
comes to the set,
869
00:43:24,603 --> 00:43:28,690
it reminds me that she is one
of the greatest actresses in the world,
870
00:43:28,774 --> 00:43:35,030
and, you know, how lucky we are to have
someone like her playing Pepper
871
00:43:35,113 --> 00:43:38,200
and being able
to give us a scene like that.
872
00:43:39,242 --> 00:43:42,621
It's literally the resolve scene
between those two characters.
873
00:43:42,746 --> 00:43:44,539
McFEELY: Right.
JOE: And ultimately,
874
00:43:46,792 --> 00:43:49,085
which leads to Tony's death.
875
00:43:49,169 --> 00:43:51,463
...no idea.
We're talking about time travel here.
876
00:43:51,546 --> 00:43:52,839
Either it's all a joke...
877
00:43:52,923 --> 00:43:54,382
JOE: Smart Hulk
is one of those characters
878
00:43:54,466 --> 00:43:56,843
that we really didn't see in full,
879
00:43:56,927 --> 00:44:00,347
until, like, the last week
before we delivered the movie
880
00:44:00,430 --> 00:44:04,059
because the VFX take so long
on a character like that.
881
00:44:04,142 --> 00:44:06,645
ANTHONY: We should give credit
to Mark Ruffalo,
882
00:44:06,728 --> 00:44:08,146
who, obviously, is an amazing actor.
883
00:44:09,064 --> 00:44:11,358
He worked so hard
figuring this character out,
884
00:44:11,441 --> 00:44:14,820
because, you know, he's been playing
these two versions.
885
00:44:14,903 --> 00:44:18,657
You know, he's been playing Banner.
He's been playing Hulk,
886
00:44:18,740 --> 00:44:22,786
but sort of figuring out
who the combination of them is,
887
00:44:23,870 --> 00:44:27,040
was a real journey for him.
We did a lot of experimentation.
888
00:44:27,123 --> 00:44:29,501
Spent a lot of time
on a motion capture stage,
889
00:44:29,584 --> 00:44:31,586
playing with different ideas with Mark.
890
00:44:32,420 --> 00:44:34,965
And he worked really hard
to find this character.
891
00:44:35,048 --> 00:44:37,634
JOE: Well, 'cause the peanut butter
and chocolate of those two
892
00:44:37,717 --> 00:44:40,387
would create something else.
893
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:42,430
MARKUS: This was
also another time, like,
894
00:44:42,514 --> 00:44:45,141
when we first saw
the rendering of Thanos.
895
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,646
When we first saw a sort of
crude version of Smart Hulk...
896
00:44:49,813 --> 00:44:51,356
- It's Scott.
- STEVE: As a baby.
897
00:44:51,439 --> 00:44:55,110
MARKUS: ...that Dan DeLeeuw and his team
had worked up,
898
00:44:55,652 --> 00:44:58,613
we realized how funny
it was going to be.
899
00:44:59,281 --> 00:45:02,450
JOE: Yeah, and seeing him behave.
McFEELY: Right. Yeah.
900
00:45:02,951 --> 00:45:06,037
Human behavior,
small human behavior in this body
901
00:45:06,121 --> 00:45:08,248
automatically becomes charming, yeah.
902
00:45:08,331 --> 00:45:11,835
JOE: And I think what the value
to this scene in the movie is, you know,
903
00:45:11,918 --> 00:45:16,047
the laughs don't start until,
really, Paul shows up
904
00:45:16,131 --> 00:45:20,051
and starts talking about the quantum
realm with Steve and Natasha.
905
00:45:20,260 --> 00:45:23,013
And then they slowly build.
They build you back in.
906
00:45:23,096 --> 00:45:24,514
So, we... You know, this...
907
00:45:24,598 --> 00:45:27,434
I think this movie
has a really nice shape to it,
908
00:45:27,517 --> 00:45:29,853
where you come in and you are...
909
00:45:29,936 --> 00:45:33,648
You swim around in the waters
of pain and loss,
910
00:45:33,940 --> 00:45:36,443
and then it slowly starts
to pull you out of that
911
00:45:36,526 --> 00:45:38,111
and then the diner gets funnier,
912
00:45:38,194 --> 00:45:39,988
and then this scene certainly
913
00:45:40,071 --> 00:45:42,198
is the funniest scene in the movie
up till that point.
914
00:45:42,407 --> 00:45:46,077
It also relates the tone
with which we're going to be
915
00:45:46,161 --> 00:45:47,621
dealing with time travel in this movie.
916
00:45:47,704 --> 00:45:51,791
McFEELY: Right. That second hour
is often for laughs.
917
00:45:51,875 --> 00:45:53,084
JOE: Yes. We're gonna have fun.
918
00:46:01,593 --> 00:46:04,888
Here's a classic Tony Stark entrance.
919
00:46:07,307 --> 00:46:08,892
ANTHONY: Yep. He loves his cars.
920
00:46:09,893 --> 00:46:11,353
JOE: And he loves an entrance.
921
00:46:13,146 --> 00:46:16,524
ANTHONY: I love the restraint
that you guys wrote this reunion,
922
00:46:16,608 --> 00:46:17,859
or reconciliation, with.
923
00:46:17,943 --> 00:46:19,235
McFEELY: Where it doesn't get sloppy?
924
00:46:19,319 --> 00:46:21,404
ANTHONY: Yeah, exactly. It's sort of...
925
00:46:22,489 --> 00:46:23,949
It's a really hard...
You know, it's like,
926
00:46:24,032 --> 00:46:27,786
how do these two repair the water
that's under the bridge between them?
927
00:46:27,869 --> 00:46:29,287
McFEELY: Right.
MARKUS: Yeah.
928
00:46:29,371 --> 00:46:30,997
McFEELY: They both are ready for it.
929
00:46:31,081 --> 00:46:32,791
It's been five years.
The five years helps.
930
00:46:32,874 --> 00:46:34,042
MARKUS: Yeah.
McFEELY: A lot.
931
00:46:34,125 --> 00:46:38,088
JOE: It's been, since Civil War,
has it been six years?
932
00:46:38,171 --> 00:46:40,966
McFEELY: Oh, sorry, the five-year jump,
but, yeah, it depends on the timeline.
933
00:46:41,049 --> 00:46:44,052
But if we say it's 2016,
it's been seven years.
934
00:46:44,135 --> 00:46:45,261
- (McFEELY LAUGHS)
- JOE: Eight years? I don't know.
935
00:46:45,345 --> 00:46:46,388
ANTHONY: Wow.
936
00:46:46,471 --> 00:46:47,555
JOE: We'll let someone else
figure that out.
937
00:46:47,639 --> 00:46:49,599
MARKUS: Well, they finally
need each other again.
938
00:46:50,558 --> 00:46:51,601
McFEELY: Yeah.
939
00:46:52,686 --> 00:46:55,522
Keep what I found,
I have to, at all costs.
940
00:46:56,648 --> 00:47:00,235
JOE: And this is, I think,
the best way that Tony can apologize.
941
00:47:02,028 --> 00:47:03,488
Or that he knows how to apologize.
942
00:47:03,571 --> 00:47:05,490
McFEELY: Right, well, with the answer.
943
00:47:05,573 --> 00:47:07,867
JOE: Right.
MARKUS: With the answer
944
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,123
and with the fine offer
of one complimentary shield.
945
00:47:13,206 --> 00:47:14,207
McFEELY: That's right.
946
00:47:14,874 --> 00:47:16,084
ANTHONY: The offer of what, sorry?
947
00:47:16,334 --> 00:47:17,377
McFEELY: Complimentary shield.
MARKUS: This shield,
948
00:47:17,460 --> 00:47:19,045
which we haven't seen since...
949
00:47:19,129 --> 00:47:21,339
You know, it's hard to believe
we did an entire Avengers movie
950
00:47:21,423 --> 00:47:22,882
- without seeing that thing.
- JOE: Yeah.
951
00:47:23,591 --> 00:47:24,843
ANTHONY: It is hard to believe.
952
00:47:26,177 --> 00:47:27,512
JOE: But that's the, I mean...
953
00:47:27,595 --> 00:47:32,892
That's the value, I think,
in serialized storytelling
954
00:47:32,976 --> 00:47:36,813
and telling a mosaic like this,
is that you...
955
00:47:36,896 --> 00:47:40,859
If you make choices
that take years to resolve,
956
00:47:40,942 --> 00:47:42,360
the audience feels that.
957
00:47:42,444 --> 00:47:46,406
Because they, too,
have waited years for this to resolve.
958
00:47:47,157 --> 00:47:49,242
And it has been since 2016,
959
00:47:49,325 --> 00:47:54,330
since these characters have had
a pleasant scene between each other.
960
00:47:58,001 --> 00:47:59,085
ANTHONY: Another...
961
00:47:59,169 --> 00:48:02,213
There's a shot you typically associate
with an Avenger movie.
962
00:48:02,297 --> 00:48:03,339
MARKUS: Yeah.
McFEELY: Right.
963
00:48:03,423 --> 00:48:04,591
MARKUS: I remember sitting on set
964
00:48:04,674 --> 00:48:08,053
watching many takes
of a close-up of a taco
965
00:48:08,136 --> 00:48:10,430
wondering, "What are we doing?"
966
00:48:10,513 --> 00:48:11,806
(LAUGHTER)
967
00:48:12,974 --> 00:48:13,975
It's all worth it.
968
00:48:14,059 --> 00:48:16,019
JOE: Again,
we're slowly tonally shifting you
969
00:48:16,102 --> 00:48:19,939
away from Infinity War
and the first part of this film
970
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:23,443
into a place where we're...
971
00:48:23,526 --> 00:48:26,488
You know, we go from pain and loss
to celebration of these characters
972
00:48:27,155 --> 00:48:28,698
and who they are together.
973
00:48:29,324 --> 00:48:33,036
And this is also part of the "what if"
scenario, right? Is the...
974
00:48:33,912 --> 00:48:38,166
You saw the Avengers collect
in the first Avengers film.
975
00:48:38,249 --> 00:48:39,542
McFEELY: Yeah,
this is a callback to that.
976
00:48:39,793 --> 00:48:43,880
JOE: And now you're collecting
this sort of odd, broken version...
977
00:48:44,380 --> 00:48:45,423
McFEELY: Broken Avengers, that's right.
978
00:48:45,507 --> 00:48:50,678
JOE: ...of Avengers and how they've
all changed since that first film
979
00:48:51,387 --> 00:48:53,098
and they're gonna re-form a family.
980
00:49:06,444 --> 00:49:07,779
ANTHONY: So of all the journeys
981
00:49:07,862 --> 00:49:10,740
these characters have had
during these five years,
982
00:49:10,824 --> 00:49:14,786
one of the ones that brings me
the most joy and delight is Thor's
983
00:49:15,662 --> 00:49:18,289
because the depths that
that character had been driven to
984
00:49:18,373 --> 00:49:20,959
over the course of his arc
through the MCU,
985
00:49:21,042 --> 00:49:23,169
and especially most recently
in Infinity War.
986
00:49:23,253 --> 00:49:26,339
He lost his mother, he lost his father,
his planet was destroyed.
987
00:49:26,756 --> 00:49:29,259
Thanos shows up
in the beginning of Infinity War,
988
00:49:29,342 --> 00:49:32,053
kills his brother, kills Heimdall,
kills many of his people.
989
00:49:32,137 --> 00:49:36,599
Thor's sort of mission of vengeance
in Infinity War ends in failure.
990
00:49:36,683 --> 00:49:38,935
Like, you can't get any lower.
991
00:49:39,394 --> 00:49:41,855
So where do you go
when you're at the bottom?
992
00:49:41,938 --> 00:49:44,649
Sometimes, the road forward
is like the...
993
00:49:44,732 --> 00:49:46,568
It's amazing
what the human psyche will do.
994
00:49:46,651 --> 00:49:49,904
It's like sometimes
the only road forward is humor.
995
00:49:49,988 --> 00:49:52,407
MARKUS: Yeah, and to shut down
everything that hurts.
996
00:49:52,490 --> 00:49:53,992
JOE: He lets go.
McFEELY: Right.
997
00:49:54,075 --> 00:49:56,452
ANTHONY: Exactly. And on
a storytelling level, it's like,
998
00:49:56,536 --> 00:49:59,706
how do you bring an audience forward
in a story like that?
999
00:49:59,789 --> 00:50:01,958
McFEELY: Yeah.
Again, the five-year jump
1000
00:50:02,041 --> 00:50:05,712
should treat each of your six
major characters differently.
1001
00:50:05,795 --> 00:50:08,673
And Thor went inward.
1002
00:50:08,756 --> 00:50:10,008
Right? He gave up.
1003
00:50:10,091 --> 00:50:11,467
JOE: They all process their grief
in different ways.
1004
00:50:11,551 --> 00:50:12,552
McFEELY: Exactly.
1005
00:50:12,635 --> 00:50:15,722
Clint's is similar, but different,
right? He gets rageful.
1006
00:50:15,805 --> 00:50:17,015
Hulk puts it all together.
1007
00:50:17,098 --> 00:50:19,767
Banner sort of grows as a result of it,
but not everyone can do that.
1008
00:50:20,185 --> 00:50:21,853
THOR: Are you here about the cable?
1009
00:50:23,688 --> 00:50:25,106
MARKUS: Thor is clearly
numbing the pain.
1010
00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:26,191
McFEELY: Right.
1011
00:50:27,233 --> 00:50:28,401
JOE: He's regressing.
1012
00:50:28,943 --> 00:50:31,487
ANTHONY: And you know what?
He survives by doing that.
1013
00:50:31,571 --> 00:50:32,572
McFEELY: Right.
ANTHONY: You know?
1014
00:50:32,655 --> 00:50:33,907
JOE: And this is, by the way,
I should point out,
1015
00:50:33,990 --> 00:50:36,826
the performance from Hemsworth
is very difficult,
1016
00:50:37,577 --> 00:50:40,914
to play pathos and humor
at the same time.
1017
00:50:40,997 --> 00:50:43,082
McFEELY: He makes it look really easy.
JOE: He does.
1018
00:50:43,166 --> 00:50:44,542
McFEELY: I think he enjoyed doing this.
1019
00:50:45,376 --> 00:50:48,254
There's sort of an image that he has
out in the world
1020
00:50:48,338 --> 00:50:49,964
that he got to play with.
1021
00:50:50,381 --> 00:50:52,091
And I remember
watching this on set thinking,
1022
00:50:52,175 --> 00:50:53,968
"Oh, my God. This guy is just...
1023
00:50:54,469 --> 00:50:58,765
"He's bringing all shades
to these just couple of minutes."
1024
00:50:58,848 --> 00:51:02,518
JOE: Well, you have to
commit to it emotionally.
1025
00:51:03,478 --> 00:51:06,981
And by doing that, you make it funnier,
but you also make it sadder.
1026
00:51:07,065 --> 00:51:08,358
McFEELY: Right.
1027
00:51:08,691 --> 00:51:10,693
JOE: And those two
can compete with each other
1028
00:51:10,777 --> 00:51:13,529
and cancel each other out
if they're done incorrectly.
1029
00:51:14,072 --> 00:51:17,242
It is why this is such a small target
to hit as an actor.
1030
00:51:18,493 --> 00:51:21,204
Very few actors that can pull it off.
1031
00:51:21,287 --> 00:51:23,539
...rip off your arms,
and shove them up your butt!
1032
00:51:25,041 --> 00:51:26,709
ANTHONY: He really hates that kid.
1033
00:51:27,001 --> 00:51:28,795
- NoobMaster.
- McFEELY: NoobMaster69.
1034
00:51:28,962 --> 00:51:30,296
Let me know
if he bothers you again, okay?
1035
00:51:30,463 --> 00:51:31,673
Thank you very much. I will.
1036
00:51:32,465 --> 00:51:33,967
So, you guys want a drink?
What are we drinking?
1037
00:51:34,050 --> 00:51:35,426
I've got beer, tequila...
1038
00:51:35,510 --> 00:51:37,512
JOE: I mean, I wanna see this.
1039
00:51:37,595 --> 00:51:39,764
I wanna see, like,
seven seasons of this show.
1040
00:51:39,847 --> 00:51:40,974
(McFEELY LAUGHS)
1041
00:51:41,057 --> 00:51:45,436
Thor, Korg, and Miek hanging out
in this cabin.
1042
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,983
This feels like a sublime BBC comedy.
1043
00:51:51,192 --> 00:51:53,319
MARKUS: I'm also very fond
of the fact that
1044
00:51:53,861 --> 00:51:57,407
the magical weapon he took
the entire last movie to get a hold of
1045
00:51:57,490 --> 00:51:58,825
is now a bottle opener.
1046
00:51:59,575 --> 00:52:01,828
ANTHONY: And kudos
to our sound design team.
1047
00:52:01,911 --> 00:52:05,999
That ring out on that bottle cap opening
is very sweet.
1048
00:52:06,082 --> 00:52:09,669
JOE: Now here's the transition of
the scene. It comes in, it's like...
1049
00:52:10,420 --> 00:52:14,299
It's much broader at the beginning
of the scene, and then suddenly...
1050
00:52:14,382 --> 00:52:15,883
McFEELY: Slowly I turned... (CHUCKLES)
1051
00:52:17,176 --> 00:52:19,387
JOE: Suddenly he goes deep
and emotional,
1052
00:52:19,470 --> 00:52:22,390
and you can see all the pain
that he's hiding.
1053
00:52:23,516 --> 00:52:26,185
Um, yeah, we don't actually,
say that name in here.
1054
00:52:26,394 --> 00:52:29,731
JOE: And I think it's what keeps
the scene from becoming unmoored,
1055
00:52:31,482 --> 00:52:32,608
tonally.
1056
00:52:32,859 --> 00:52:33,943
McFEELY: He's a child there.
1057
00:52:35,778 --> 00:52:39,198
JOE: He is. Look, he clearly
blames himself for the loss.
1058
00:52:39,282 --> 00:52:40,783
That's why he chopped Thanos' head off.
1059
00:52:40,867 --> 00:52:44,954
He had an opportunity to do it
at the end of the last movie, didn't.
1060
00:52:45,038 --> 00:52:49,208
He wanted to enunciate his vengeance,
1061
00:52:49,959 --> 00:52:51,419
and he failed.
1062
00:52:54,922 --> 00:52:56,007
Nope.
1063
00:52:57,216 --> 00:53:00,178
JOE: And what's great about
this character is that we commit to it
1064
00:53:00,261 --> 00:53:03,639
and he doesn't change
by the end of the film.
1065
00:53:03,723 --> 00:53:05,725
- He continues to be this person.
- McFEELY: Right.
1066
00:53:06,809 --> 00:53:08,144
ANTHONY: He's gonna
carry this experience
1067
00:53:08,227 --> 00:53:09,562
with him forever moving forward.
1068
00:53:09,645 --> 00:53:10,897
You don't just wash it off.
1069
00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:13,107
He doesn't just go back
to being who he was.
1070
00:53:13,191 --> 00:53:15,902
McFEELY: Well, that's again the...
MARKUS: Yeah, he's sober at the end.
1071
00:53:16,361 --> 00:53:17,445
McFEELY: That's true.
1072
00:53:19,405 --> 00:53:22,575
MARKUS: He is accepting who he is.
That's his whole arc.
1073
00:53:22,658 --> 00:53:26,746
It's what everything Frigga tells him,
is to accept who you are,
1074
00:53:26,829 --> 00:53:28,748
and this is who he is.
1075
00:53:28,831 --> 00:53:31,751
McFEELY: Endgame
is the concluding chapter
1076
00:53:31,834 --> 00:53:35,171
for most of our OG Avengers' arcs.
1077
00:53:35,630 --> 00:53:38,383
And remember where he started in Thor.
1078
00:53:38,674 --> 00:53:40,259
Right? And Thor 2.
1079
00:53:40,468 --> 00:53:42,637
The obligation of the throne.
1080
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:43,805
He thought he wanted it.
1081
00:53:43,888 --> 00:53:46,349
It certainly had been thrust upon him.
It was expected of him.
1082
00:53:46,432 --> 00:53:49,602
Expectations weighed on him
his whole life.
1083
00:53:49,769 --> 00:53:52,980
And the arc that he goes through
is to get rid of expectations,
1084
00:53:53,064 --> 00:53:56,442
is to embrace the guy that he is,
not the one he's supposed to be.
1085
00:53:56,651 --> 00:53:59,946
JOE: Which I think is one of the more
powerful messages of the movie.
1086
00:54:00,029 --> 00:54:01,030
McFEELY: Yep.
1087
00:54:01,114 --> 00:54:03,950
JOE: Embrace who you are
and not who people expect you to be.
1088
00:54:06,411 --> 00:54:07,662
(SNIFFS)
1089
00:54:08,746 --> 00:54:10,039
(CHUCKLES QUIETLY)
1090
00:54:14,335 --> 00:54:16,337
There's beer on the ship.
1091
00:54:19,132 --> 00:54:20,299
(BOTTLE CLATTERS)
1092
00:54:20,383 --> 00:54:22,009
What kind?
1093
00:54:22,718 --> 00:54:27,348
JOE: Again, it ends with a joke,
but he's got tears in his eyes.
1094
00:54:27,432 --> 00:54:29,475
McFEELY: Right.
JOE: Which is what grounds it.
1095
00:54:30,643 --> 00:54:33,896
MARKUS: And it's a pretty rapid
gearshift in tones to come to this.
1096
00:54:34,313 --> 00:54:35,481
ANTHONY: Yeah.
McFEELY: Right.
1097
00:54:35,565 --> 00:54:38,234
JOE: It's like each of these characters
are in their own movie.
1098
00:54:38,776 --> 00:54:42,405
And they have to be pulled out of it
and brought back to the main story.
1099
00:54:42,488 --> 00:54:45,032
McFEELY: Do you guys wanna talk
about your influences here for this?
1100
00:54:45,116 --> 00:54:47,702
Which is essentially a oner for...
1101
00:54:47,785 --> 00:54:49,203
Is it the whole time?
1102
00:54:49,287 --> 00:54:52,373
JOE: Yeah, it's a oner
through to the reveal of Natasha.
1103
00:54:53,541 --> 00:54:56,419
But it is, you know,
1104
00:54:56,752 --> 00:54:59,714
- shot over the course of two nights.
- ANTHONY: Two nights, yeah.
1105
00:54:59,797 --> 00:55:01,966
McFEELY: Two nights in Atlanta
to look like Tokyo.
1106
00:55:02,049 --> 00:55:05,887
I wanna say you kept referring
to Black Rain?
1107
00:55:05,970 --> 00:55:07,054
Is that right? (LAUGHS)
1108
00:55:07,138 --> 00:55:11,642
JOE: It was the sort of neon look
of Black Rain.
1109
00:55:12,101 --> 00:55:16,105
Of course, the water drops
falling from the sky.
1110
00:55:17,148 --> 00:55:19,525
ANTHONY: Yeah, look,
part of the fun, again,
1111
00:55:20,067 --> 00:55:22,236
is to show the wide
variety of experience
1112
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:23,696
that all these people
were going through.
1113
00:55:23,779 --> 00:55:24,906
McFEELY: That's right.
1114
00:55:24,989 --> 00:55:28,117
ANTHONY: And so by pushing things
stylistically here,
1115
00:55:28,326 --> 00:55:30,286
we had a perfect excuse for doing that
1116
00:55:30,369 --> 00:55:34,624
'cause Hawkeye had gone to such
a dark and fringe place
1117
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:37,835
- compared to everybody else.
- McFEELY: Right.
1118
00:55:37,919 --> 00:55:39,670
And remember, just a small thing,
1119
00:55:39,754 --> 00:55:44,091
had we not started this movie
with his family snapping,
1120
00:55:44,550 --> 00:55:46,969
- this wouldn't be nearly as effective.
- ANTHONY: No. You're right.
1121
00:55:47,053 --> 00:55:49,388
McFEELY: You'd have to remind yourself
who the hell this guy is.
1122
00:55:49,764 --> 00:55:51,349
It had been a year since you'd seen him.
1123
00:55:51,432 --> 00:55:54,852
JOE: I think there's very few directions
you could go as a character
1124
00:55:54,936 --> 00:55:57,104
when your entire family
dies in front of you,
1125
00:55:57,188 --> 00:55:58,231
or disappears in front of you.
1126
00:55:58,314 --> 00:55:59,607
ANTHONY: Do you see the flare
in Jeremy's eyes
1127
00:55:59,690 --> 00:56:01,067
when he's performing that scene,
1128
00:56:01,150 --> 00:56:03,319
- when he realizes what's happened?
-McFEELY: Yes.
1129
00:56:03,402 --> 00:56:05,988
ANTHONY: There's an anger in him,
you know.
1130
00:56:06,072 --> 00:56:08,115
JOE: And now he's traveling the world
1131
00:56:08,199 --> 00:56:12,370
punishing bad people
who survived the snap.
1132
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:16,624
So this is a way for him to feel...
1133
00:56:17,375 --> 00:56:21,254
Feel some sort of sense of purpose,
1134
00:56:21,337 --> 00:56:23,339
even though it is a dark purpose.
1135
00:56:35,268 --> 00:56:36,435
You shouldn't be here.
1136
00:56:37,311 --> 00:56:40,147
McFEELY: It's also the beginning...
Again, scenes do more than one thing.
1137
00:56:40,606 --> 00:56:44,944
The beginning of, you know,
a four-or-five beat arc
1138
00:56:45,403 --> 00:56:47,697
of Natasha and Clint, you know,
1139
00:56:47,989 --> 00:56:51,200
reminding you of their relationship,
what they'll do for each other.
1140
00:56:51,284 --> 00:56:53,911
JOE: There's no one who could have
pulled him out of this other than her.
1141
00:56:54,328 --> 00:56:57,164
No one else shows up
and gets him to come home.
1142
00:56:57,248 --> 00:56:58,374
MARKUS: Well, it's also...
1143
00:56:59,333 --> 00:57:02,420
It's implied that this is essentially
what he did for her...
1144
00:57:02,545 --> 00:57:03,546
McFEELY: That's right.
1145
00:57:03,629 --> 00:57:06,465
MARKUS: ...when he pulled her out
of being a Russian agent.
1146
00:57:06,549 --> 00:57:09,051
JOE: That's right. It comes full circle,
their relationship.
1147
00:57:10,052 --> 00:57:14,223
Right? 'Cause he had an opportunity
to kill her, and he...
1148
00:57:14,307 --> 00:57:16,392
McFEELY: Made another call.
JOE: Yeah.
1149
00:57:17,935 --> 00:57:19,770
And changed her life.
1150
00:57:19,854 --> 00:57:22,273
And now here she is changing his.
1151
00:57:27,820 --> 00:57:31,073
ANTHONY: These actors understand
each other so well. I mean, like this...
1152
00:57:32,199 --> 00:57:35,328
Scarlett and Jeremy are able
to pull out of one another
1153
00:57:36,954 --> 00:57:38,331
so much subtlety in their performances.
1154
00:57:38,414 --> 00:57:40,583
McFEELY: Think about it, she works well
with a lot of people.
1155
00:57:40,666 --> 00:57:42,543
Like, she gets good stuff out of Evans.
1156
00:57:42,627 --> 00:57:43,919
I mean, like, she's...
1157
00:57:44,378 --> 00:57:46,213
ANTHONY: Yeah.
McFEELY: ...maybe the linchpin.
1158
00:57:46,505 --> 00:57:48,215
One side there, Lebowski.
1159
00:57:51,427 --> 00:57:52,720
Ratchet, how's it going?
1160
00:57:52,887 --> 00:57:53,888
It's Rocket.
1161
00:57:54,055 --> 00:57:56,599
Take it easy.
You're only a genius on Earth, pal.
1162
00:57:56,682 --> 00:57:57,850
(THOR BELCHES)
1163
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,105
RHODES: Time travel suit, not bad.
1164
00:58:03,773 --> 00:58:04,857
JOE: Now, here we go.
1165
00:58:05,650 --> 00:58:06,859
Time travel,
1166
00:58:07,902 --> 00:58:11,155
humor, interpersonal relationships
1167
00:58:11,238 --> 00:58:16,077
between the characters
that we're playing with that, you know,
1168
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,121
in a way that you've never seen before
because they've all changed.
1169
00:58:19,205 --> 00:58:20,956
MARKUS: Yeah. And yet,
1170
00:58:21,540 --> 00:58:26,379
laying out some very important rules
and clarifications
1171
00:58:27,338 --> 00:58:29,465
that would not be particularly trackable
1172
00:58:29,548 --> 00:58:32,385
if it wasn't an entertaining scene
at the same time.
1173
00:58:33,260 --> 00:58:36,347
So we're telling you
how many Pym Particles we have,
1174
00:58:37,014 --> 00:58:40,184
letting you know that our time theories
1175
00:58:40,267 --> 00:58:42,603
- are maybe not the ones you expect.
- McFEELY: Are different, right.
1176
00:58:42,687 --> 00:58:43,938
Right.
1177
00:58:44,021 --> 00:58:45,773
ANTHONY: And like before, Chris,
how you were saying,
1178
00:58:45,856 --> 00:58:48,776
sometimes the scenes are proxies
for our own conversations.
1179
00:58:48,859 --> 00:58:49,902
MARKUS: (LAUGHING) Yeah.
1180
00:58:49,985 --> 00:58:53,114
ANTHONY: This scene
is ripped right out of...
1181
00:58:53,197 --> 00:58:54,198
McFEELY: That's right.
1182
00:58:54,281 --> 00:58:55,408
ANTHONY: ...a late-night session.
1183
00:58:55,491 --> 00:58:56,575
McFEELY: Conference room
in Burbank, yeah.
1184
00:58:56,659 --> 00:58:57,993
Time doesn't work that way.
1185
00:58:58,077 --> 00:59:00,246
Changing the past
doesn't change the future.
1186
00:59:01,205 --> 00:59:02,456
JOE: I mean, this is...
1187
00:59:02,540 --> 00:59:04,834
I love Ruffalo's performance here
1188
00:59:05,167 --> 00:59:06,377
and the way that...
1189
00:59:07,044 --> 00:59:08,170
McFEELY: He's strangely
1190
00:59:08,254 --> 00:59:09,338
- the adult in the room.
- JOE: ...Hulk moves.
1191
00:59:09,422 --> 00:59:10,423
Yeah.
1192
00:59:10,506 --> 00:59:13,759
Well, he is. He's trying
to bring sanity to the situation.
1193
00:59:13,843 --> 00:59:15,136
He's a scientist.
1194
00:59:15,928 --> 00:59:17,388
MARKUS: And speaking of scientists,
1195
00:59:17,805 --> 00:59:21,016
his explanation is essentially
what we were told
1196
00:59:21,100 --> 00:59:23,769
by genuine quantum physicists
1197
00:59:23,853 --> 00:59:26,856
brought into the writers' room
to explain time travel to us.
1198
00:59:28,065 --> 00:59:29,358
MARKUS: They said this.
McFEELY: That's right.
1199
00:59:29,442 --> 00:59:30,693
JOE: By the way, this is...
1200
00:59:31,193 --> 00:59:35,489
This movie has my favorite performance
from Don Cheadle in all the films.
1201
00:59:35,573 --> 00:59:37,825
McFEELY: He has
a lot of fun stuff, yeah.
1202
00:59:37,908 --> 00:59:40,703
It's mostly almost all funny,
1203
00:59:40,786 --> 00:59:42,830
but, yeah,
Cheadle's doing good work here.
1204
00:59:46,041 --> 00:59:48,252
- All right, Clint.
- (BEEPING)
1205
00:59:48,753 --> 00:59:51,213
JOE: Don is an amazing actor,
and again...
1206
00:59:51,297 --> 00:59:53,090
MARKUS: Supersmart.
JOE: ...the embarrassment of riches
1207
00:59:53,174 --> 00:59:55,092
when you're working on these movies.
1208
00:59:55,468 --> 00:59:59,221
How deep the bench goes
on these films is just insane
1209
01:00:01,015 --> 01:00:02,933
from a talent standpoint.
1210
01:00:04,727 --> 01:00:07,646
And then we thought
if they have to test this,
1211
01:00:08,606 --> 01:00:12,818
certainly the most compelling person
to test it would be Hawkeye,
1212
01:00:14,028 --> 01:00:17,448
who could revisit his family,
if only momentarily.
1213
01:00:17,531 --> 01:00:19,992
ANTHONY: Well, also, I think it was us
trying to honor stakes, as well,
1214
01:00:20,075 --> 01:00:22,369
which is the idea that...
1215
01:00:22,953 --> 01:00:26,916
Well, Ant-Man was trapped
in the quantum realm for five years
1216
01:00:27,249 --> 01:00:29,710
and something very bad
just happened to him
1217
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:31,921
when Smart Hulk was experimenting.
1218
01:00:32,004 --> 01:00:37,676
So it's dangerous to volunteer
for time travel experimentation.
1219
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:40,805
Who's motivated on that level?
1220
01:00:40,888 --> 01:00:42,306
McFEELY: Who's got
a bit of a death wish?
1221
01:00:42,389 --> 01:00:43,474
Right.
1222
01:00:52,817 --> 01:00:54,235
MARKUS: Again,
props to the effects team,
1223
01:00:54,318 --> 01:00:55,903
because those boots don't exist.
1224
01:00:55,986 --> 01:00:58,405
JOE: Yeah, that entire suit is CG.
MARKUS: That is amazing.
1225
01:00:58,489 --> 01:01:02,076
ANTHONY: The way the effects team
designed the wrinkles on those boots.
1226
01:01:02,159 --> 01:01:03,244
I was just like...
1227
01:01:03,327 --> 01:01:05,830
- They're so imperfect, it's perfect.
- MARKUS: Yeah, and they've got...
1228
01:01:05,913 --> 01:01:07,998
- They've got mud on them.
- JOE: And none of this suit exists.
1229
01:01:08,082 --> 01:01:09,542
MARKUS: It's fantastic.
1230
01:01:09,625 --> 01:01:13,629
McFEELY: But it was important
to have sort of unifying outfits.
1231
01:01:13,712 --> 01:01:15,798
It's a new wrinkle for the Avengers,
1232
01:01:15,881 --> 01:01:18,425
the idea that they're gonna
have a team lineup,
1233
01:01:18,509 --> 01:01:20,845
you know, that has a practical reason.
1234
01:01:21,846 --> 01:01:24,139
JOE: And the tragedy of that moment
is that clearly
1235
01:01:24,223 --> 01:01:26,183
they had put a timer
1236
01:01:26,267 --> 01:01:29,687
on Clint's trip back to the past
1237
01:01:29,770 --> 01:01:31,313
to make sure that he, in fact...
1238
01:01:31,397 --> 01:01:33,399
McFEELY: Didn't stay.
JOE: ...did return, yes.
1239
01:01:36,861 --> 01:01:39,280
Hey. Hey, look at me.
1240
01:01:39,363 --> 01:01:40,489
You okay?
1241
01:01:41,323 --> 01:01:43,033
ANTHONY: We did a version of this scene
1242
01:01:44,618 --> 01:01:46,412
where Hawkeye attacks Smart Hulk
1243
01:01:46,495 --> 01:01:48,581
'cause he's so angry
about being pulled back.
1244
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,001
JOE: He's kidding.
1245
01:01:52,251 --> 01:01:54,003
He confused Steve.
1246
01:01:54,128 --> 01:01:56,213
- Steve was trying to remember...
- McFEELY: I'm there usually every day,
1247
01:01:56,297 --> 01:01:58,215
- but sometimes I go and have a bagel.
- JOE: I thought he was gonna talk
1248
01:01:58,299 --> 01:02:00,509
about the orange slice joke
that we cut out of the end of it.
1249
01:02:01,010 --> 01:02:02,052
ANTHONY: Oh, my God,
I forgot about that.
1250
01:02:02,136 --> 01:02:03,178
JOE: Where Rudd is holding
an orange slice
1251
01:02:03,262 --> 01:02:05,139
and says, "Anybody want
an orange slice?"
1252
01:02:05,222 --> 01:02:09,977
McFEELY: So this is what we call sort of
the time travel brainstorming scene.
1253
01:02:10,060 --> 01:02:11,061
Right? Is that where we are?
1254
01:02:11,145 --> 01:02:13,772
JOE: Yeah, where you start
to lay out the plan, right?
1255
01:02:13,856 --> 01:02:15,608
They know that it can work.
1256
01:02:15,691 --> 01:02:16,859
They know the suits work.
1257
01:02:16,942 --> 01:02:20,446
That Tony's, you know,
space-time GPS works.
1258
01:02:20,529 --> 01:02:22,281
ANTHONY: Plotting the time heist.
JOE: Right?
1259
01:02:22,364 --> 01:02:26,493
And that you can navigate the quantum
realm to other points in time.
1260
01:02:26,577 --> 01:02:28,579
McFEELY: It was when
hitting upon this idea
1261
01:02:28,662 --> 01:02:29,997
that the second act would be
1262
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:34,001
going back to the movies of the MCU
and seeing them from new points of view.
1263
01:02:34,293 --> 01:02:37,963
The idea that we could
sort of talk about them
1264
01:02:38,464 --> 01:02:41,800
and sort of comment on them
was kind of delightful.
1265
01:02:44,345 --> 01:02:46,096
This is a good example.
1266
01:02:46,305 --> 01:02:50,517
Thor: The Dark World
has a kind of confusing backstory
1267
01:02:50,601 --> 01:02:52,728
that involves Dark Elves
1268
01:02:52,937 --> 01:02:54,980
and an every 5,000-year...
1269
01:02:55,064 --> 01:02:57,816
MARKUS: And a stone that is not a stone.
McFEELY: ...astronomical event.
1270
01:02:57,900 --> 01:03:00,152
Right. So we thought we would...
1271
01:03:00,235 --> 01:03:02,780
It's called hanging a lantern
on something.
1272
01:03:02,988 --> 01:03:06,742
JOE: Well, you get the opportunity
to go back and have a little fun.
1273
01:03:06,825 --> 01:03:07,910
McFEELY: That's right.
ANTHONY: Yes.
1274
01:03:07,993 --> 01:03:09,203
McFEELY: There was an embarrassment
of riches here.
1275
01:03:09,286 --> 01:03:10,663
We probably had 15 pages of stuff.
1276
01:03:10,746 --> 01:03:11,872
JOE: Oh, yeah.
ANTHONY: Amazing, you're right.
1277
01:03:11,956 --> 01:03:13,874
JOE: There was a scene that we cut
that was entertaining,
1278
01:03:13,958 --> 01:03:16,877
but it ultimately didn't work, where,
1279
01:03:17,294 --> 01:03:20,965
if you remember, they were watching
the Battle in New York.
1280
01:03:21,048 --> 01:03:22,049
MARKUS: Oh, yeah.
McFEELY: That's right.
1281
01:03:22,132 --> 01:03:24,885
JOE: Right? And Rocket had a great joke,
where he was like,
1282
01:03:24,969 --> 01:03:27,262
"Oh, my God.
How long did you fight these guys?"
1283
01:03:27,388 --> 01:03:29,431
And he was referring to the Chitauri.
1284
01:03:29,932 --> 01:03:33,310
And I think Steve Rogers says,
"A couple of hours."
1285
01:03:33,477 --> 01:03:35,187
McFEELY: "Hours?" (LAUGHS)
1286
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:36,981
JOE: "All you gotta do
is blow up the mothership!"
1287
01:03:37,064 --> 01:03:38,190
McFEELY: "Everybody knows that!"
1288
01:03:38,273 --> 01:03:39,358
JOE: "Everybody knows that!"
1289
01:03:39,441 --> 01:03:41,110
McFEELY: "They're the suckiest army
in the galaxy."
1290
01:03:41,193 --> 01:03:43,320
JOE: Yeah.
ANTHONY: Here, Hemsworth...
1291
01:03:43,404 --> 01:03:46,240
JOE: It felt a little
too inside baseball.
1292
01:03:46,323 --> 01:03:48,701
ANTHONY: After Hemsworth performed
this scene a couple of times,
1293
01:03:48,784 --> 01:03:52,121
we shot him first
in a couple of camera setups,
1294
01:03:52,204 --> 01:03:54,081
all the actors in the room
applauded him.
1295
01:03:54,164 --> 01:03:55,290
JOE: Yeah.
1296
01:03:55,374 --> 01:03:59,503
Again, emotional commitment
to a comedic performance
1297
01:03:59,586 --> 01:04:03,340
sets up him seeing his mother
in the past.
1298
01:04:03,424 --> 01:04:04,800
McFEELY: That's right. He just...
JOE: And what she means to him.
1299
01:04:04,883 --> 01:04:06,969
McFEELY: ...name-dropped her there.
JOE: And there, we've got...
1300
01:04:07,052 --> 01:04:09,930
One of our favorite Easter eggs
in the movie is the Ben & Jerry's.
1301
01:04:10,014 --> 01:04:11,056
MARKUS: Oh, yes.
1302
01:04:11,140 --> 01:04:12,683
McFEELY: Hunka-Hulka
is a deep cut there, yeah.
1303
01:04:12,766 --> 01:04:15,394
MARKUS: Is that...
McFEELY: It's Hunka-Hunka Burnin' Fudge.
1304
01:04:15,477 --> 01:04:17,396
MARKUS: Hunka-Hulka Burnin' Fudge.
1305
01:04:18,897 --> 01:04:22,067
Do you wanna go to space?
You wanna go to space, puppy?
1306
01:04:22,151 --> 01:04:25,571
JOE: And now we're taking each scene
to sort of remind you
1307
01:04:25,654 --> 01:04:28,782
where the stones existed in the past,
1308
01:04:28,866 --> 01:04:33,412
which characters were involved
in those moments with the stones,
1309
01:04:33,495 --> 01:04:37,374
so that as those scenes
start to reappear in the film,
1310
01:04:37,458 --> 01:04:40,794
hopefully, you remember them.
1311
01:04:40,878 --> 01:04:43,714
McFEELY: It should be noted,
I've seen this on the Internet
1312
01:04:43,797 --> 01:04:47,634
that Nebula doesn't know about
the exchange that's required at Vormir.
1313
01:04:47,718 --> 01:04:50,095
No one knows other than
anybody who was there.
1314
01:04:50,179 --> 01:04:51,472
She just knows
her sister didn't come back.
1315
01:04:51,555 --> 01:04:53,348
JOE: She knows her sister went there
with her father
1316
01:04:53,432 --> 01:04:56,393
and her sister didn't come back,
and he left with the stone.
1317
01:04:56,477 --> 01:05:00,689
So only assumptions can be made
about what happens on that planet,
1318
01:05:00,773 --> 01:05:02,316
but who knows?
1319
01:05:02,399 --> 01:05:04,985
She could have tried to stop him
and he murdered her.
1320
01:05:05,069 --> 01:05:06,153
We have no idea.
1321
01:05:06,236 --> 01:05:07,237
ANTHONY: He could have
simply murdered her,
1322
01:05:07,321 --> 01:05:08,363
because he finally got what he wanted.
1323
01:05:08,447 --> 01:05:09,448
McFEELY: That's right.
Got what he wanted
1324
01:05:09,531 --> 01:05:10,616
and, "You betrayed me."
1325
01:05:10,699 --> 01:05:12,951
JOE: The only one who really knows
is Red Skull.
1326
01:05:13,035 --> 01:05:14,036
McFEELY: Right.
1327
01:05:14,495 --> 01:05:16,622
STEVE: All right. We have a plan.
1328
01:05:16,789 --> 01:05:21,376
Six stones, three teams, one shot.
1329
01:05:26,673 --> 01:05:29,885
ANTHONY: Speaking of Red Skull,
have you guys thought about
1330
01:05:29,968 --> 01:05:33,430
whether or not Cap runs into Red Skull
when he's returning the Soul Stone?
1331
01:05:33,514 --> 01:05:34,515
McFEELY: He would have to.
MARKUS: Many times.
1332
01:05:34,598 --> 01:05:36,683
JOE: Yes, he would have to.
McFEELY: Well, I guess,
1333
01:05:36,767 --> 01:05:39,436
if Red Skull has been
released from his bonds...
1334
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:40,854
MARKUS: I don't think...
He's not released.
1335
01:05:40,938 --> 01:05:43,023
McFEELY: Well, what's he doing there?
ANTHONY: At the exact moment...
1336
01:05:43,107 --> 01:05:44,900
JOE: The exact moment the stone...
MARKUS: He's the guardian.
1337
01:05:44,983 --> 01:05:46,443
McFEELY: But there's
no Soul Stone there.
1338
01:05:46,527 --> 01:05:47,528
MARKUS: But it may come back.
1339
01:05:47,611 --> 01:05:49,071
McFEELY: But he goes back
the moment before.
1340
01:05:49,530 --> 01:05:50,823
Yeah, that's true.
1341
01:05:53,992 --> 01:05:55,119
ANTHONY: It's fun to think about.
1342
01:05:55,202 --> 01:05:57,079
JOE: Here they are in their suits.
1343
01:05:57,162 --> 01:06:00,249
As you said, this is a new team,
a new mission.
1344
01:06:00,916 --> 01:06:05,295
Costumes just represent either identity,
1345
01:06:05,504 --> 01:06:08,257
emotional state, storytelling,
1346
01:06:08,465 --> 01:06:10,342
and when they're working at their best.
1347
01:06:10,634 --> 01:06:12,761
And this is storytelling. This is...
1348
01:06:13,137 --> 01:06:15,472
- A new team has collected...
- McFEELY: That's right.
1349
01:06:15,556 --> 01:06:17,266
JOE: ...for their greatest mission.
1350
01:06:17,349 --> 01:06:18,350
Whatever it takes.
1351
01:06:20,477 --> 01:06:24,273
JOE: And it includes some of
the Avengers and some of the Guardians.
1352
01:06:25,607 --> 01:06:27,901
ANTHONY: Everybody's an Avenger now.
MARKUS: Some of the Ant-Men.
1353
01:06:29,111 --> 01:06:30,654
SMART HULK: Trackers engaged.
1354
01:06:31,446 --> 01:06:33,282
You promise to bring that back
in one piece, right?
1355
01:06:33,448 --> 01:06:34,783
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1356
01:06:34,867 --> 01:06:36,535
Okay, I'll do my best.
1357
01:06:36,618 --> 01:06:38,620
JOE: Clearly, they had shrunk the ship
1358
01:06:39,538 --> 01:06:42,082
prior to departure
1359
01:06:43,500 --> 01:06:44,793
for traveling purposes, right?
1360
01:06:44,877 --> 01:06:46,044
McFEELY:
They're giving out Pym Particles.
1361
01:06:46,128 --> 01:06:49,423
JOE: It's a little easier to travel
with a small ship.
1362
01:07:02,352 --> 01:07:06,315
Great. By the way, this is a moment
to talk about Alan Silvestri.
1363
01:07:06,815 --> 01:07:09,568
- That score is phenomenal there.
- ANTHONY: Yeah.
1364
01:07:09,651 --> 01:07:12,362
McFEELY: Literally, it's one of
his best. And he has a lot of bests.
1365
01:07:12,821 --> 01:07:15,115
JOE: And that Avengers theme, I think,
has become
1366
01:07:15,657 --> 01:07:18,785
so Pavlovian, in a way.
1367
01:07:18,869 --> 01:07:22,247
It's an amazing tool to have
as a filmmaker,
1368
01:07:22,664 --> 01:07:26,543
a theme that is that resonant
and memorable and that can...
1369
01:07:26,627 --> 01:07:28,587
ANTHONY: Rousing.
JOE: Rousing, and pull the emotions
1370
01:07:28,670 --> 01:07:31,298
out of the audience
the moment that they hear it.
1371
01:07:34,885 --> 01:07:38,180
And now here we are sort of reinventing
1372
01:07:39,723 --> 01:07:42,392
famous moments from the Marvel Universe.
1373
01:07:44,394 --> 01:07:47,981
Just yards away, in an alley...
1374
01:07:48,607 --> 01:07:50,067
McFEELY: (CHUCKLING) Just this...
1375
01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:51,151
JOE: Yeah.
1376
01:07:51,235 --> 01:07:53,487
MARKUS: The hilarious excess
of the original.
1377
01:07:53,570 --> 01:07:55,822
JOE: I can't remember,
was this scripted?
1378
01:07:56,490 --> 01:07:58,283
McFEELY: Yeah. Yeah.
MARKUS: Yeah.
1379
01:07:58,742 --> 01:08:02,746
JOE: I just remember one of our
stunt players going ape (BLEEP) as...
1380
01:08:03,205 --> 01:08:05,624
McFEELY: Oh, as the original Hulk?
1381
01:08:05,707 --> 01:08:09,169
No, yeah, the idea was that Hulk
was gonna do something awful
1382
01:08:09,253 --> 01:08:10,921
and embarrass the heck
out of Smart Hulk.
1383
01:08:11,004 --> 01:08:12,005
ANTHONY: Yeah. It led to him...
1384
01:08:12,089 --> 01:08:16,218
MARKUS: This half-hearted growling
from Ruffalo is...
1385
01:08:17,427 --> 01:08:20,514
JOE: Yeah, an act.
Yeah, that was an improv
1386
01:08:20,597 --> 01:08:22,307
on the motion capture stage, I believe.
1387
01:08:22,391 --> 01:08:23,475
McFEELY: What was?
1388
01:08:23,558 --> 01:08:25,435
JOE: Him walking out there
and doing that.
1389
01:08:25,519 --> 01:08:26,603
MARKUS: And here we have...
1390
01:08:26,687 --> 01:08:28,522
JOE: It used to end
with just him saying,
1391
01:08:28,605 --> 01:08:30,274
- "I'm sort of embarrassed."
-McFEELY: "It's gratuitous."
1392
01:08:30,357 --> 01:08:32,276
JOE: Yeah, "It's gratuitous."
Then he would jump away.
1393
01:08:33,443 --> 01:08:34,486
I think that might have been...
1394
01:08:34,569 --> 01:08:36,905
ANTHONY: First, it came from
our visual effects team, actually.
1395
01:08:36,989 --> 01:08:41,118
They animated a version of that
that then we tried to reenact
1396
01:08:41,201 --> 01:08:44,413
on the motion capture stage.
1397
01:08:44,705 --> 01:08:49,459
But the idea came from Animation,
of him going... (GROWLS)
1398
01:08:50,252 --> 01:08:53,297
MARKUS: And this is one of those
delightful things,
1399
01:08:53,380 --> 01:08:56,717
is we realized that we could
bring back dead characters
1400
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:58,927
as long as we're traveling through time,
1401
01:08:59,469 --> 01:09:03,640
and the Ancient One
died in Doctor Strange,
1402
01:09:04,099 --> 01:09:08,478
but she would be the keeper
of the Time Stone during this period.
1403
01:09:08,562 --> 01:09:13,900
JOE: What's fun about Smart Hulk
is that he has Hulk's aggression.
1404
01:09:15,485 --> 01:09:17,070
Let's start over, shall we?
1405
01:09:17,195 --> 01:09:19,364
JOE: Banner is different.
1406
01:09:19,448 --> 01:09:21,950
He's not as sort of pensive...
1407
01:09:22,034 --> 01:09:24,536
ANTHONY: It's a combination of the two.
JOE: ...and thoughtful and awkward.
1408
01:09:25,454 --> 01:09:27,664
- Talk about dead characters...
- McFEELY: That's right.
1409
01:09:28,707 --> 01:09:31,668
JOE: Loki makes a return.
1410
01:09:33,378 --> 01:09:35,172
MARKUS: Actually appears
in a couple of these.
1411
01:09:35,255 --> 01:09:37,090
McFEELY: That's right.
Yeah, tons of Loki.
1412
01:09:39,551 --> 01:09:40,552
All right.
1413
01:09:41,011 --> 01:09:43,597
McFEELY: This was shot
in Durham Cathedral?
1414
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:44,723
JOE: That is correct.
1415
01:09:44,806 --> 01:09:48,268
McFEELY: In the UK in April of2017,
1416
01:09:48,352 --> 01:09:50,103
a full two years
before it would come out.
1417
01:09:50,187 --> 01:09:53,982
MARKUS: Yeah, this is one of the only,
a couple things we shot
1418
01:09:54,066 --> 01:09:57,402
during the shooting
of Infinity War for Endgame.
1419
01:09:59,863 --> 01:10:02,657
JOE: What can be compelling
about these scenes
1420
01:10:02,741 --> 01:10:05,619
is how they don't go to plan, right,
how they go wrong.
1421
01:10:05,869 --> 01:10:08,872
And they can go wrong
because characters are ill-equipped,
1422
01:10:09,081 --> 01:10:12,209
a mistake happens,
something unexpected happens,
1423
01:10:12,876 --> 01:10:15,629
or you're emotionally ill-equipped.
1424
01:10:16,046 --> 01:10:19,216
And Thor is not prepared
1425
01:10:20,509 --> 01:10:23,512
emotionally for what he is seeing.
1426
01:10:23,595 --> 01:10:25,639
ANTHONY: Well, this is a guy, again...
JOE: He's broken.
1427
01:10:25,722 --> 01:10:26,848
ANTHONY: He's been repressing himself
1428
01:10:26,932 --> 01:10:29,559
and he can't do it any longer,
seeing her.
1429
01:10:30,102 --> 01:10:32,979
McFEELY: Again, this is
a stone collection section, right?
1430
01:10:33,063 --> 01:10:37,234
We're gonna go back
and get six MacGuffins, God help me,
1431
01:10:37,317 --> 01:10:39,945
then bring them back
to solve the problem,
1432
01:10:40,028 --> 01:10:42,697
but if each one of them
is just picking one up
1433
01:10:42,781 --> 01:10:44,574
- or some kind of heist...
- JOE: A shopping trip.
1434
01:10:44,658 --> 01:10:46,034
McFEELY: A shopping trip, it's not...
1435
01:10:46,118 --> 01:10:47,911
- It's not worth the real estate.
- MARKUS: Yeah.
1436
01:10:48,453 --> 01:10:50,038
McFEELY: So this is
a particularly valuable
1437
01:10:50,122 --> 01:10:51,540
piece of real estate here where...
1438
01:10:51,623 --> 01:10:54,918
Rocket, right here, by the way,
gets to express why he's in the movie.
1439
01:10:55,001 --> 01:10:58,922
Right? "This is how I feel
about what we're doing."
1440
01:10:59,005 --> 01:11:00,632
And then, of course,
in the next few scenes,
1441
01:11:00,715 --> 01:11:04,010
Thor's gonna get to address issues
with his mom.
1442
01:11:04,094 --> 01:11:06,179
...plenty of people
who are only kind of gone...
1443
01:11:06,304 --> 01:11:07,389
...and you can help them.
1444
01:11:07,472 --> 01:11:09,808
JOE: And this is a rare emotional moment
for Rocket.
1445
01:11:09,891 --> 01:11:10,892
McFEELY: Right.
1446
01:11:11,935 --> 01:11:14,229
...make schmoopy talk to Pretty Pants...
1447
01:11:14,688 --> 01:11:17,566
and when she's not looking,
suck out the Infinity Stone...
1448
01:11:17,732 --> 01:11:19,317
and help me get my family back?
1449
01:11:20,819 --> 01:11:23,280
JOE: One of our favorite characters.
1450
01:11:23,989 --> 01:11:27,659
Rocket. He reminds me
of Louie De Palma from Taxi.
1451
01:11:27,742 --> 01:11:28,994
(McFEELY LAUGHS)
1452
01:11:29,453 --> 01:11:30,454
MARKUS: He's about the same height.
1453
01:11:30,912 --> 01:11:32,664
- You can do this.
- (EXHALES)
1454
01:11:32,998 --> 01:11:34,416
You can do this.
1455
01:11:37,461 --> 01:11:39,463
ANTHONY: But again, a complex scene.
1456
01:11:40,130 --> 01:11:43,175
Credit to Sean Gunn,
who performs Rocket on set.
1457
01:11:46,303 --> 01:11:47,762
I can't do this.
1458
01:11:47,929 --> 01:11:51,349
All right, heartbreaker, she's alone.
This is our shot.
1459
01:11:52,309 --> 01:11:56,104
JOE: He and Thor
make a fantastic odd couple.
1460
01:11:57,606 --> 01:12:00,108
McFEELY: Yeah, it's one of
the few pairings we repeated.
1461
01:12:00,192 --> 01:12:01,193
JOE: Yeah.
1462
01:12:03,361 --> 01:12:05,530
Well, it's sort of a...
1463
01:12:05,864 --> 01:12:09,117
Because it changes so dramatically
from what it was in Infinity War.
1464
01:12:09,201 --> 01:12:11,203
McFEELY: That's a good point.
It's almost like a new pairing,
1465
01:12:11,286 --> 01:12:12,662
against depressed Thor.
1466
01:12:12,746 --> 01:12:14,956
JOE: Yeah, it almost inverts in a way,
1467
01:12:16,208 --> 01:12:19,503
where Thor is rooting for...
1468
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,339
I mean Rocket's rooting
for the godlike Thor,
1469
01:12:23,089 --> 01:12:25,425
and now he's trying
to pull him together.
1470
01:12:25,717 --> 01:12:27,385
- Hey.
- We got this.
1471
01:12:28,220 --> 01:12:32,182
JOE: For viewers who are paying
attention, this is your first hint
1472
01:12:32,265 --> 01:12:36,394
that these two are on a doomed mission.
1473
01:12:36,478 --> 01:12:38,355
"Watch each other's six."
1474
01:12:43,193 --> 01:12:45,153
MARKUS: Yeah. It's one of the joys of
1475
01:12:45,237 --> 01:12:46,905
making this kind of
wish-fulfillment movie
1476
01:12:46,988 --> 01:12:48,990
is you can take two characters
1477
01:12:49,074 --> 01:12:52,077
who are probably the two most
Earth-bound Avengers,
1478
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,247
put them in a spaceship,
and send them through space
1479
01:12:55,747 --> 01:12:57,791
and it all makes sense. (CHUCKLES)
1480
01:12:59,626 --> 01:13:02,212
JOE: And just a little reminder
of their history together.
1481
01:13:04,881 --> 01:13:06,758
These two are another
great odd couple...
1482
01:13:06,841 --> 01:13:07,926
McFEELY: Right.
1483
01:13:08,843 --> 01:13:10,011
JOE: ...who also
1484
01:13:11,263 --> 01:13:16,184
have some physical issues
over which they can relate.
1485
01:13:16,268 --> 01:13:18,311
McFEELY: Right,
their one moment really comes
1486
01:13:18,395 --> 01:13:21,356
when she puts her hand
through the energy bars.
1487
01:13:22,148 --> 01:13:24,651
Note that each one
of these stone missions
1488
01:13:24,734 --> 01:13:27,904
has a different purpose in the film.
1489
01:13:27,988 --> 01:13:31,866
This one gets the antagonist
back on story.
1490
01:13:32,867 --> 01:13:36,705
And it also does a lot of things
with Nebula and her story.
1491
01:13:37,330 --> 01:13:39,708
ANTHONY: Which is a huge turning point
in the movie.
1492
01:13:39,791 --> 01:13:41,042
MARKUS: Yeah.
McFEELY: Yeah.
1493
01:13:41,501 --> 01:13:42,544
And took a while.
1494
01:13:42,627 --> 01:13:45,130
I think it took us a while
to come up with
1495
01:13:47,090 --> 01:13:50,218
- duplicate Wi-Fi issues.
- (McFEELY AND MARKUS CHUCKLE)
1496
01:13:52,137 --> 01:13:55,056
JOE: And here is another dead character.
1497
01:13:55,557 --> 01:13:57,851
ANTHONY: Big moment.
JOE: Now, of course,
1498
01:13:59,144 --> 01:14:01,187
this is not the same character.
1499
01:14:01,771 --> 01:14:05,817
This is a character who doesn't have
the same emotional connection
1500
01:14:05,900 --> 01:14:08,612
to anyone else in the film.
1501
01:14:08,695 --> 01:14:09,863
Especially to Quill.
1502
01:14:10,780 --> 01:14:12,407
Doesn't have the same memories.
1503
01:14:13,450 --> 01:14:17,871
That's a unique thing that you can
play with in a time travel film,
1504
01:14:18,455 --> 01:14:20,665
is revisiting dead characters
1505
01:14:21,541 --> 01:14:24,002
who could become
part of the story going forward,
1506
01:14:24,085 --> 01:14:25,629
but are not the same people.
1507
01:14:25,712 --> 01:14:26,755
McFEELY: It takes a lot of juggling.
1508
01:14:26,838 --> 01:14:31,301
You have to remember this is a Gamora
who is probably a day or two away
1509
01:14:31,593 --> 01:14:34,304
from the beginning of Guardians 1,
1510
01:14:34,387 --> 01:14:37,807
where she is sent to Xandar
1511
01:14:37,891 --> 01:14:39,809
to go steal the orb from Quill,
1512
01:14:39,893 --> 01:14:43,146
which means that she's already
thinking of betraying Thanos.
1513
01:14:44,230 --> 01:14:46,358
She's not fully under his spell.
1514
01:14:46,816 --> 01:14:47,984
ANTHONY: I love that about it, though.
1515
01:14:48,068 --> 01:14:51,112
She's in such a different place
than Gamora is back here...
1516
01:14:51,196 --> 01:14:52,906
- I mean, than Nebula.
- McFEELY: Than Nebula is, right.
1517
01:14:52,989 --> 01:14:55,533
ANTHONY: Because Nebula,
in their showdown later,
1518
01:14:55,617 --> 01:14:58,870
Nebula knows that
her former self is incapable
1519
01:14:58,953 --> 01:15:00,872
- of making a step at this moment.
- MARKUS: Yeah, she's fully committed.
1520
01:15:00,955 --> 01:15:05,335
And it's a great performance
from Karen Gillan
1521
01:15:05,835 --> 01:15:08,254
that for a relatively
affectless character,
1522
01:15:08,338 --> 01:15:13,176
there's a big difference
between present-day Nebula and this one.
1523
01:15:13,718 --> 01:15:15,595
JOE: Yeah. Incredible performance.
1524
01:15:16,471 --> 01:15:17,889
ANTHONY: Yeah,
her subtleties are amazing.
1525
01:15:17,972 --> 01:15:18,973
JOE: Yeah.
1526
01:15:19,057 --> 01:15:20,475
ANTHONY: With the control
she has over that character.
1527
01:15:20,558 --> 01:15:22,352
JOE: She understands
the different characters.
1528
01:15:22,977 --> 01:15:25,772
That's one of my favorite entrances
in the film,
1529
01:15:25,855 --> 01:15:30,110
is Thanos, blood-splattered,
zero explanation,
1530
01:15:30,985 --> 01:15:32,404
walking onto his ship.
1531
01:15:34,114 --> 01:15:38,910
This is a different version
of the character than in the last film.
1532
01:15:38,993 --> 01:15:42,247
- A sort of enlightened stone collector.
- McFEELY: That's right.
1533
01:15:42,372 --> 01:15:43,581
JOE: This is the butcher.
1534
01:15:44,290 --> 01:15:47,252
Her synaptic drive was
probably damaged in battle.
1535
01:15:47,335 --> 01:15:48,670
Shh.
1536
01:15:57,512 --> 01:15:59,556
Bring her to my ship.
1537
01:15:59,848 --> 01:16:02,267
McFEELY: All this stuff has to be really
clean and easy to understand.
1538
01:16:03,685 --> 01:16:08,064
So that took a while in both the writing
and the directing and editing of these.
1539
01:16:09,441 --> 01:16:12,110
JOE: Yeah, I think the most work
on the movie in editorial
1540
01:16:12,193 --> 01:16:14,320
- was done in this sequence...
- McFEELY: From the Thanos story.
1541
01:16:14,404 --> 01:16:15,613
JOE: ...trying to track...
1542
01:16:15,697 --> 01:16:17,615
- I just think all the time travel stuff.
-McFEELY: Well, for sure.
1543
01:16:17,699 --> 01:16:19,492
JOE: Trying to track it.
McFEELY: Right.
1544
01:16:20,118 --> 01:16:23,288
JOE: How are we intercutting it
so that you could retain
1545
01:16:23,663 --> 01:16:26,207
the narrative thread from the last scene
1546
01:16:26,791 --> 01:16:29,586
because you are moving
between quite a few missions here.
1547
01:16:30,378 --> 01:16:35,300
And here we are looking at the backside
of a famous scene from Avengers.
1548
01:16:35,675 --> 01:16:37,177
MARKUS: Speaking of backsides,
1549
01:16:37,302 --> 01:16:38,386
there's America's backside.
1550
01:16:38,470 --> 01:16:39,888
JOE: A completely different perspective.
1551
01:16:43,558 --> 01:16:46,186
And then probably
the most controversial joke
1552
01:16:47,395 --> 01:16:49,647
in the whole movie, "America's ass."
1553
01:16:50,899 --> 01:16:53,526
Controversial for all of us.
1554
01:16:54,152 --> 01:16:55,945
- That was hotly debated.
- McFEELY: Was it?
1555
01:16:56,029 --> 01:16:57,030
JOE: Yes.
1556
01:16:57,655 --> 01:16:59,491
MARKUS: But this also gives us
an opportunity
1557
01:16:59,574 --> 01:17:01,785
to weave several movies together.
1558
01:17:01,868 --> 01:17:03,036
So when these guys show up,
1559
01:17:03,119 --> 01:17:06,039
you're actually referencing
Winter Soldier,
1560
01:17:06,122 --> 01:17:07,665
not Avengers 1.
1561
01:17:07,957 --> 01:17:12,545
Because this is when HYDRA
would have gotten a hold of that stone.
1562
01:17:12,921 --> 01:17:16,174
JOE: It's making them canon
in that movie,
1563
01:17:16,257 --> 01:17:18,218
so the S.T.R.I.K.E. team...
1564
01:17:18,301 --> 01:17:19,344
McFEELY: Right, the S.T.R.I.K.E. team.
1565
01:17:19,761 --> 01:17:22,764
JOE: ...existed prior to the events
in Winter Soldier.
1566
01:17:22,847 --> 01:17:24,265
McFEELY: I mean, again,
just to point out,
1567
01:17:24,349 --> 01:17:26,267
if you don't do that beat there
1568
01:17:26,351 --> 01:17:29,604
where Loki, as he has before,
particularly in Thor: The Dark World,
1569
01:17:29,687 --> 01:17:31,439
impersonated Captain America,
1570
01:17:31,523 --> 01:17:34,943
then you don't get a logical reason
1571
01:17:35,777 --> 01:17:41,449
for 2012 Cap to fight 2023 Cap
1572
01:17:41,533 --> 01:17:42,867
- because otherwise why would he...
- JOE: He assumes it's Loki.
1573
01:17:42,951 --> 01:17:44,744
McFEELY: What does he think
he's looking at?
1574
01:17:44,828 --> 01:17:45,954
JOE: Mmm-hmm.
1575
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:47,705
McFEELY: He must assume this is Loki.
1576
01:17:48,081 --> 01:17:51,209
There's a lot going on here.This took a lot of... (CHUCKLES)
1577
01:17:51,292 --> 01:17:53,878
MARKUS: And this ridiculous beat,
1578
01:17:53,962 --> 01:17:57,298
"Hulk hate stairs," of not being able
to fit the Hulk on the elevator
1579
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:02,512
has a cascading effect that
leads to the end of the movie, in fact.
1580
01:18:02,595 --> 01:18:03,638
ANTHONY: (LAUGHING) I love that.
1581
01:18:03,721 --> 01:18:05,890
MARKUS: Which is really satisfying.
1582
01:18:05,974 --> 01:18:08,309
McFEELY: Yeah, it sure is.
JOE: Well, each of these missions
1583
01:18:08,393 --> 01:18:10,645
embrace a different tone, you know?
1584
01:18:10,728 --> 01:18:14,482
McFEELY: Yes.
JOE: And this was an Ocean's Eleven
1585
01:18:14,983 --> 01:18:18,236
sort of a hijinks caper.
1586
01:18:18,695 --> 01:18:21,406
Where, as you said, simple choices
1587
01:18:22,699 --> 01:18:24,450
lead to a domino effect
1588
01:18:24,534 --> 01:18:28,079
that ruin the outcome for them.
1589
01:18:30,540 --> 01:18:32,834
So we snuck into a theater opening night
1590
01:18:33,501 --> 01:18:36,087
- in Westwood, the Village Theatre.
- McFEELY: Los Angeles.
1591
01:18:36,170 --> 01:18:38,089
JOE: And watched this with 1,200 people.
1592
01:18:38,172 --> 01:18:41,509
And one of the most satisfying moments
1593
01:18:42,135 --> 01:18:44,304
of the entire screening
1594
01:18:44,387 --> 01:18:47,056
was when Cap walks out of the elevator
1595
01:18:47,140 --> 01:18:49,309
with the stone,
having said, "Hail Hydra."
1596
01:18:49,392 --> 01:18:53,730
Obviously, this whole scene is built
as a misdirect to make you anticipate
1597
01:18:53,813 --> 01:18:58,651
a reenactment of the fight
with the exact same S.T.R.I.K.E. team
1598
01:18:59,986 --> 01:19:01,279
in an elevator.
1599
01:19:03,072 --> 01:19:05,491
- And Cap, the wizened Cap...
- McFEELY: Yeah.
1600
01:19:08,411 --> 01:19:10,371
Well, this is another example,
I mentioned it earlier,
1601
01:19:10,455 --> 01:19:12,415
where the audience thinks
they are ahead of the story,
1602
01:19:12,498 --> 01:19:14,626
and at the beginning of the movie,
the audience is ahead of the story
1603
01:19:14,709 --> 01:19:18,004
because they know that Clint's family
is gonna get snapped.
1604
01:19:18,129 --> 01:19:20,340
They assume there's gonna be
a second fight here
1605
01:19:20,423 --> 01:19:22,592
and they are fine with it,
because they like the first fight.
1606
01:19:22,675 --> 01:19:23,927
It was a great fight,
1607
01:19:24,010 --> 01:19:27,013
but then we circumvent it
and undercut it
1608
01:19:27,096 --> 01:19:28,598
- with a little "Hail Hydra".
-MARKUS: And they're even happier.
1609
01:19:28,806 --> 01:19:31,935
JOE: Also, you know what I love about it
is like an old athlete who realizes
1610
01:19:32,018 --> 01:19:33,645
- he can just run out of bounds.
- McFEELY: That's right.
1611
01:19:33,728 --> 01:19:35,980
JOE: He doesn't have to take the hit.
1612
01:19:36,064 --> 01:19:37,523
McFEELY: But this whole section
is doing that.
1613
01:19:37,607 --> 01:19:41,736
If you are a super fan, or have more
than a passing knowledge of the MCU,
1614
01:19:41,819 --> 01:19:44,447
you are being drawn into scenes
you think you know
1615
01:19:44,530 --> 01:19:46,532
and then you're getting
different perspectives on them.
1616
01:19:46,616 --> 01:19:48,159
MARKUS: Yeah, because why go back
1617
01:19:48,618 --> 01:19:50,119
- if you're gonna show the same thing?
-McFEELY: Why bother?
1618
01:19:50,203 --> 01:19:52,538
- That's exactly right.
- MARKUS: You gotta present a new angle.
1619
01:19:53,581 --> 01:19:57,418
One of which we're about
to run into here, which is that
1620
01:19:58,670 --> 01:20:00,171
at this point,
1621
01:20:00,254 --> 01:20:03,967
the person who would've been wanting
to get a hold of that cube
1622
01:20:04,050 --> 01:20:05,885
would be this man.
1623
01:20:06,469 --> 01:20:08,471
JOE: The man above the man.
ANTHONY: Alexander Pierce.
1624
01:20:09,514 --> 01:20:10,807
MARKUS: And this is,
1625
01:20:11,808 --> 01:20:14,185
as declared by himself on set,
1626
01:20:14,602 --> 01:20:16,437
Robert Redford's last
1627
01:20:17,855 --> 01:20:18,898
movie role.
1628
01:20:18,982 --> 01:20:20,441
JOE: That was his last day of acting.
1629
01:20:21,067 --> 01:20:22,110
Ever.
1630
01:20:22,527 --> 01:20:23,987
And I'm gonna need that case.
1631
01:20:24,696 --> 01:20:28,241
MARKUS: Which is pretty insane, to say.
ANTHONY: Pretty insane.
1632
01:20:28,324 --> 01:20:29,826
JOE: Yeah.
MARKUS: Got to make that.
1633
01:20:32,537 --> 01:20:34,789
ANTHONY: His last performance,
Stan Lee's last performance.
1634
01:20:34,872 --> 01:20:40,211
JOE: Yeah, seven years of really
incredible moments on these movies,
1635
01:20:40,294 --> 01:20:41,713
this is certainly up there.
1636
01:20:42,505 --> 01:20:44,173
Directing Robert Redford's last day.
1637
01:20:44,257 --> 01:20:47,802
ANTHONY: Mr. Redford may change
his mind, appear in another movie.
1638
01:20:47,885 --> 01:20:49,512
MARKUS: And I wouldn't complain.
ANTHONY: Yeah.
1639
01:20:50,138 --> 01:20:53,766
JOE: Again, making this character canon,
'cause, of course, he existed
1640
01:20:54,726 --> 01:20:57,603
during this movie,
even though he was not seen
1641
01:20:58,021 --> 01:20:59,564
on screen in Avengers.
1642
01:21:01,441 --> 01:21:05,528
MARKUS: And now, coming up
on a moment that I remember
1643
01:21:07,864 --> 01:21:10,825
when it came to being
in the writing room,
1644
01:21:11,284 --> 01:21:14,328
when we realized that
Hulk was in the stairs
1645
01:21:14,412 --> 01:21:15,997
- and then would do that...
- (JOE CHUCKLES)
1646
01:21:16,414 --> 01:21:17,749
And that...
1647
01:21:17,832 --> 01:21:19,417
- And that.
- ANTHONY: Amazing.
1648
01:21:21,753 --> 01:21:25,214
MARKUS: It's the kind of idea,
it's too stupid not to do it.
1649
01:21:25,548 --> 01:21:26,799
(ALL LAUGH)
1650
01:21:28,551 --> 01:21:31,054
JOE: And Loki disappears.
1651
01:21:31,137 --> 01:21:32,638
ANTHONY: This is a great
performance beat here.
1652
01:21:32,722 --> 01:21:34,474
JOE: Where did Loki go?
1653
01:21:34,682 --> 01:21:35,767
Will we ever find out?
1654
01:21:35,850 --> 01:21:36,851
ANTHONY: "I had no idea
if that was gonna work."
1655
01:21:37,977 --> 01:21:39,353
Oh, that worked a treat.
1656
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:40,521
Dude, that was so crazy.
1657
01:21:40,688 --> 01:21:42,065
I had no idea if that was gonna work.
1658
01:21:42,273 --> 01:21:43,399
- The case.
- The case is, uh...
1659
01:21:43,483 --> 01:21:45,276
MARKUS: Yeah, it's a nice piece of work
from Hemsworth there
1660
01:21:45,359 --> 01:21:47,695
because he's giving a little taste...
1661
01:21:48,529 --> 01:21:50,364
JOE: Of where he goes.
MARKUS: ...of the new kind of Thor.
1662
01:21:50,448 --> 01:21:51,532
JOE: Yeah, exactly.
1663
01:21:51,616 --> 01:21:53,409
MARKUS: But goes back
into old Thor there.
1664
01:21:53,493 --> 01:21:54,619
ANTHONY: Pretty amazing.
1665
01:21:55,787 --> 01:21:59,874
JOE: You notice, this 2023 Cap
swears a lot more than the old Cap.
1666
01:21:59,957 --> 01:22:01,209
McFEELY: Yeah, I noticed this.
1667
01:22:01,292 --> 01:22:02,543
I didn't remember it on set.
1668
01:22:02,627 --> 01:22:04,253
JOE: I mean,
this guy's been through a lot.
1669
01:22:04,337 --> 01:22:05,463
McFEELY: That's true, yeah.
1670
01:22:05,671 --> 01:22:07,548
MARKUS: Well, this is another beat
1671
01:22:08,966 --> 01:22:11,969
that influences the decision
he makes later
1672
01:22:12,053 --> 01:22:15,139
because I think he sees
his past self here
1673
01:22:16,349 --> 01:22:18,184
and what a hard nut he is.
1674
01:22:18,267 --> 01:22:20,353
McFEELY: Yeah, he's a little
exhausted, all right.
1675
01:22:20,895 --> 01:22:23,022
JOE: Well, that was the intention
of all of this,
1676
01:22:23,106 --> 01:22:25,483
is how distinctly different
these two characters are, right?
1677
01:22:26,067 --> 01:22:30,738
That what 11 years does to him
1678
01:22:31,697 --> 01:22:33,366
and everything he's been through.
1679
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:38,830
And the sort of square version of Cap
1680
01:22:40,248 --> 01:22:42,792
from Avengers 1
running into the wizened.
1681
01:22:43,584 --> 01:22:45,336
MARKUS: But you gotta remember...
1682
01:22:46,629 --> 01:22:50,299
That Cap with the helmet on is, what,
maybe about a month...
1683
01:22:51,259 --> 01:22:53,136
JOE: Out of deep freeze, yeah.
MARKUS: ...after coming out of the ice?
1684
01:22:53,219 --> 01:22:56,139
He's essentially 1940s Cap.
1685
01:22:59,100 --> 01:23:00,226
(PANTING)
1686
01:23:01,227 --> 01:23:02,228
Where did you get this?
1687
01:23:04,480 --> 01:23:08,693
JOE: And here we can have some fun
1688
01:23:09,485 --> 01:23:14,073
with the knowledge
that future Cap would hold.
1689
01:23:15,241 --> 01:23:18,995
MARKUS: And once again,
different Marvel movies intertwining.
1690
01:23:20,121 --> 01:23:21,164
What?
1691
01:23:25,084 --> 01:23:26,878
JOE: This was the controversial...
1692
01:23:29,088 --> 01:23:30,298
"America's ass."
1693
01:23:30,882 --> 01:23:33,718
MARKUS: How often does a man
have the opportunity
1694
01:23:33,801 --> 01:23:36,679
to admire his own ass
from that perspective?
1695
01:23:36,762 --> 01:23:37,763
You have to take it.
1696
01:23:37,847 --> 01:23:38,890
McFEELY: You can't not do it.
ANTHONY: Exactly.
1697
01:23:40,016 --> 01:23:41,809
Coincidence smiled upon him.
1698
01:23:42,018 --> 01:23:43,019
BANNER: Please, please.
1699
01:23:43,102 --> 01:23:44,478
I'm sorry, I can't help you...
1700
01:23:44,562 --> 01:23:47,940
MARKUS: Another scene that took a lot
of rejiggering and jiggering
1701
01:23:49,358 --> 01:23:52,820
to make complicated things clear
1702
01:23:52,904 --> 01:23:56,240
and clear enough
so that people could track
1703
01:23:56,324 --> 01:23:57,992
why certain decisions are made later.
1704
01:24:00,036 --> 01:24:04,332
The Infinity Stones create
what you experience as the flow of time.
1705
01:24:04,498 --> 01:24:06,042
Remove one of the stones...
1706
01:24:06,209 --> 01:24:08,294
and that flow splits.
1707
01:24:08,461 --> 01:24:10,922
Now, this may benefit your reality...
1708
01:24:11,088 --> 01:24:13,216
but my new one, not so much.
1709
01:24:13,591 --> 01:24:15,301
In this new branch reality...
1710
01:24:15,468 --> 01:24:18,554
without our chief weapon against
the forces of darkness...
1711
01:24:18,971 --> 01:24:20,890
our world would be overrun.
1712
01:24:21,057 --> 01:24:22,767
Millions will suffer.
1713
01:24:22,934 --> 01:24:24,185
So, tell me, Doctor.
1714
01:24:24,727 --> 01:24:28,773
MARKUS: And once again, part of the fun
of getting to do the 22nd movie
1715
01:24:28,856 --> 01:24:30,233
is you get to combine
1716
01:24:31,692 --> 01:24:35,780
this genius character of science
1717
01:24:36,155 --> 01:24:38,991
from one strand of the MCU
1718
01:24:39,075 --> 01:24:41,744
with this mystical character
from a completely different strand
1719
01:24:41,827 --> 01:24:46,040
who, hitherto this point, had never
gotten anywhere near each other
1720
01:24:47,166 --> 01:24:49,085
and have them have
a meeting of the minds.
1721
01:24:55,383 --> 01:24:59,762
JOE: Now, this is the interesting
piece of information.
1722
01:24:59,845 --> 01:25:01,806
- The turning point of the scene.
- McFEELY: Right.
1723
01:25:02,807 --> 01:25:07,311
It sends you back to the previous movie
reminding you about where we're headed,
1724
01:25:07,395 --> 01:25:12,316
the 14 million futures
that Doctor Strange looked at.
1725
01:25:12,733 --> 01:25:13,818
What did you say?
1726
01:25:13,901 --> 01:25:15,987
JOE: And that if this is how,
1727
01:25:17,113 --> 01:25:18,698
why she is,
1728
01:25:19,282 --> 01:25:22,285
that if Strange were
to give that stone away willingly,
1729
01:25:22,368 --> 01:25:24,912
that there would be purpose
behind that action
1730
01:25:25,121 --> 01:25:27,540
and perhaps the purpose of that action
1731
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:29,834
- was for her in this moment...
- McFEELY: Right.
1732
01:25:29,917 --> 01:25:32,545
To do something other than
what she thinks she should do.
1733
01:25:32,878 --> 01:25:35,464
She, if you remember, in Doctor Strange,
1734
01:25:35,548 --> 01:25:38,259
could never see past her own death,
1735
01:25:38,801 --> 01:25:41,178
so she has to take his word for it.
1736
01:25:52,898 --> 01:25:56,444
Again, each of the stone collection
scenes are doing different things.
1737
01:25:56,694 --> 01:25:58,904
This gives you the rules of time travel.
1738
01:25:58,988 --> 01:26:00,489
It's not an emotional scene.
1739
01:26:01,407 --> 01:26:02,867
These are two characters
who don't know each other.
1740
01:26:02,950 --> 01:26:04,577
It's not a reunion of any kind.
1741
01:26:05,786 --> 01:26:09,540
But you're getting different flavors
from the different missions.
1742
01:26:09,623 --> 01:26:12,168
JOE: And it paints the stakes
1743
01:26:12,251 --> 01:26:15,129
for motivating Cap to return
at the end of the movie.
1744
01:26:15,838 --> 01:26:16,881
McFEELY: Yes.
1745
01:26:16,964 --> 01:26:20,051
ANTHONY: There's a whole cascade
of complications that are happening
1746
01:26:20,134 --> 01:26:22,219
now at this point
in the mission, though, right?
1747
01:26:22,303 --> 01:26:23,763
McFEELY: Right.
1748
01:26:23,846 --> 01:26:25,181
ANTHONY: He gets new rules about
what they can do with the stones.
1749
01:26:26,932 --> 01:26:28,017
Loki escapes...
1750
01:26:28,100 --> 01:26:29,268
McFEELY: That's right.
They lost a stone.
1751
01:26:29,352 --> 01:26:34,106
JOE: And I think to see
how good of an actor Mark Ruffalo is,
1752
01:26:34,190 --> 01:26:36,192
watch that scene where he plays Banner.
1753
01:26:36,275 --> 01:26:38,778
He's very different
than who Smart Hulk is.
1754
01:26:39,153 --> 01:26:41,655
It reverts back to that
1755
01:26:42,615 --> 01:26:46,911
up-on-the-back-of-his-heels,
you know, character,
1756
01:26:47,495 --> 01:26:49,580
and the confidence dissipates.
1757
01:26:52,458 --> 01:26:54,418
It was a memory, but not hers.
1758
01:26:55,669 --> 01:26:57,088
There's another consciousness...
1759
01:26:57,254 --> 01:26:58,547
sharing her network.
1760
01:26:59,090 --> 01:27:00,674
MARKUS: And speaking of complications,
1761
01:27:00,758 --> 01:27:02,802
here comes the primary one
in the movie, which is...
1762
01:27:02,885 --> 01:27:04,011
McFEELY: Yeah, right.
1763
01:27:05,054 --> 01:27:06,889
JOE: Thanos gets on the A-story.
1764
01:27:08,766 --> 01:27:10,393
Maw makes a return,
1765
01:27:10,476 --> 01:27:12,645
- one of our favorite characters.
- McFEELY: Crowd favorite.
1766
01:27:13,354 --> 01:27:17,525
Again, these are scenes
that need to be really clean and clear
1767
01:27:17,608 --> 01:27:20,194
so that audiences don't get lost
1768
01:27:20,528 --> 01:27:22,405
in the timey-wimey...
1769
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:26,617
JOE: Yeah, we did some retooling,
I think, in reshoots,
1770
01:27:26,700 --> 01:27:28,536
on the dialogue in this scene
to clarify...
1771
01:27:28,619 --> 01:27:31,372
McFEELY: "Did audiences have too much?
Did they have too little?"
1772
01:27:31,455 --> 01:27:34,959
I think we had versions that were...
We said the same thing too many times.
1773
01:27:35,751 --> 01:27:38,671
JOE: And I think we always...
We try to keep in mind
1774
01:27:38,754 --> 01:27:41,966
that there is a wide range of ages
1775
01:27:42,049 --> 01:27:45,761
that will be watching this movie
and that needs to be clear.
1776
01:27:45,845 --> 01:27:47,054
GAMORA: Terrans.
1777
01:27:48,139 --> 01:27:49,807
Avengers.
1778
01:27:50,891 --> 01:27:52,601
Unruly wretches.
1779
01:27:52,893 --> 01:27:54,645
JOE: Thanos as detective.
1780
01:27:55,813 --> 01:27:58,774
He is a brilliant mind, Thanos,
1781
01:27:58,858 --> 01:28:02,278
and this is him piecing together
1782
01:28:03,737 --> 01:28:06,949
with a couple of clues
1783
01:28:07,950 --> 01:28:10,035
what happens to him and his future.
1784
01:28:12,872 --> 01:28:14,123
He's on to it here.
1785
01:28:14,498 --> 01:28:16,125
Set course for Morag.
1786
01:28:16,292 --> 01:28:18,669
And scan the duplicate's memories.
1787
01:28:19,420 --> 01:28:21,797
I wanna see everything.
1788
01:28:27,136 --> 01:28:28,554
ANTHONY: Back in Durham Cathedral.
1789
01:28:33,309 --> 01:28:36,729
McFEELY: I remember you specifically
doing this little move here,
1790
01:28:37,271 --> 01:28:40,149
where she jumps the frame or something?
What is this?
1791
01:28:40,232 --> 01:28:42,526
MARKUS:
Well, she is a magical character.
1792
01:28:42,610 --> 01:28:44,570
McFEELY: Right, right.
ANTHONY: It was to re-remind people
1793
01:28:44,653 --> 01:28:46,113
that she has powers.
1794
01:28:46,655 --> 01:28:48,324
McFEELY: I don't even know
how you do it.
1795
01:28:49,492 --> 01:28:53,537
MARKUS: Well, yeah, she gets there
faster than a human would.
1796
01:28:53,621 --> 01:28:54,705
McFEELY: (CHUCKLES) Right.
1797
01:28:56,916 --> 01:28:58,542
ANTHONY: We did a little reset
1798
01:28:58,959 --> 01:29:00,836
and married two shots together
1799
01:29:01,754 --> 01:29:03,172
to do that, to get her there.
1800
01:29:04,048 --> 01:29:06,008
MARKUS: And Rene Russo
is really great in this.
1801
01:29:06,091 --> 01:29:07,259
JOE: Ah, she's fantastic.
1802
01:29:08,427 --> 01:29:10,054
McFEELY: She may have more lines in this
1803
01:29:10,137 --> 01:29:12,765
than she has had
in the previous two Thor movies.
1804
01:29:13,474 --> 01:29:14,683
Orit might be close.
1805
01:29:14,767 --> 01:29:15,976
(LAUGHTER)
1806
01:29:18,938 --> 01:29:23,234
ANTHONY: I mean, to see a mother
recognize the pain in her son here.
1807
01:29:23,776 --> 01:29:26,362
JOE: And to see a broken son
1808
01:29:27,655 --> 01:29:30,407
get to spend time
with his dead mother again.
1809
01:29:31,534 --> 01:29:33,911
I see with more than eyes,
you know that.
1810
01:29:34,787 --> 01:29:38,791
MARKUS: You know,
and we went through variations
1811
01:29:39,792 --> 01:29:41,126
with Thor come... I mean,
1812
01:29:41,502 --> 01:29:44,004
where we were very much
on the stone mission
1813
01:29:44,088 --> 01:29:45,965
in certain drafts where,
1814
01:29:47,341 --> 01:29:50,135
well, the stone is in Jane.
1815
01:29:50,219 --> 01:29:51,554
Thor would go talk to Jane.
1816
01:29:51,637 --> 01:29:54,014
But we realized that
the work, emotionally,
1817
01:29:54,098 --> 01:29:59,728
that needed to be done on Thor,
it wasn't romantic work.
1818
01:29:59,812 --> 01:30:02,815
It wasn't scientific work.
1819
01:30:03,107 --> 01:30:07,111
It was a kind of absolution
that only his mother could give.
1820
01:30:07,194 --> 01:30:09,530
His head was over there...
1821
01:30:09,613 --> 01:30:12,116
...and his body over there...
1822
01:30:12,741 --> 01:30:17,830
JOE: Of course, I think that was
an outtake from The Dark World,
1823
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:21,250
Jane getting out of bed,
1824
01:30:21,834 --> 01:30:25,504
and we added Rocket to the shot
1825
01:30:25,796 --> 01:30:31,135
and changed the context
of the original intention of the shot.
1826
01:30:31,218 --> 01:30:32,720
A failure?
1827
01:30:32,886 --> 01:30:34,013
Absolutely.
1828
01:30:34,179 --> 01:30:35,973
That's a little bit harsh.
1829
01:30:36,140 --> 01:30:37,641
Do you know what that makes you?
1830
01:30:38,851 --> 01:30:40,853
Just like everyone else.
1831
01:30:41,437 --> 01:30:44,315
JOE: Thor's mother
trying to make him whole again.
1832
01:30:44,398 --> 01:30:47,568
Everyone fails
at who they're supposed to be, Thor.
1833
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:51,113
The measure of a person, of a hero...
1834
01:30:51,196 --> 01:30:55,117
JOE: By providing him with some of,
perhaps, the wisest words in the movie.
1835
01:30:56,619 --> 01:30:58,412
"Maybe eat a salad."
1836
01:30:58,537 --> 01:30:59,788
(MARKUS CHUCKLES)
1837
01:31:00,831 --> 01:31:03,250
MARKUS: Well,
fiber can be quite helpful.
1838
01:31:07,463 --> 01:31:09,214
Thor! I got it!
1839
01:31:10,090 --> 01:31:11,634
ASGARDIAN GUARD: Get that rabbit!
1840
01:31:15,095 --> 01:31:17,056
MARKUS: But this really is
the sort of...
1841
01:31:17,806 --> 01:31:20,601
These are the words
Thor has needed to hear the entire...
1842
01:31:20,684 --> 01:31:23,937
Not just the entire movie,
his entire arc across the MCU.
1843
01:31:24,021 --> 01:31:28,567
He has been striving to fulfill
an idea of himself
1844
01:31:30,235 --> 01:31:33,947
that he, inherently,
somehow just doesn't fit.
1845
01:31:34,823 --> 01:31:38,619
And it's only now
that he gets to be who he is.
1846
01:31:40,829 --> 01:31:43,040
JOE: An inspiring moment here,
where he...
1847
01:31:44,249 --> 01:31:48,337
You know, sort of self-confidence,
where he puts his hand out.
1848
01:31:48,420 --> 01:31:51,715
McFEELY: I underestimated it
in the script and in shooting.
1849
01:31:51,799 --> 01:31:54,510
It's a lovely beat here.
1850
01:31:55,886 --> 01:31:57,805
Because, undoubtedly,
in the last five years,
1851
01:31:58,263 --> 01:31:59,973
he has thought himself unworthy.
1852
01:32:00,057 --> 01:32:01,058
MARKUS: Yeah.
JOE: Yeah.
1853
01:32:01,141 --> 01:32:02,893
MARKUS: And again, it's his performance.
1854
01:32:02,976 --> 01:32:04,978
ANTHONY: Hemsworth sells it.
He commits to it.
1855
01:32:05,062 --> 01:32:06,105
McFEELY: Yeah, he's delighted.
1856
01:32:06,188 --> 01:32:08,982
JOE: And then the music cue...
McFEELY: And then you pre-lap, right?
1857
01:32:09,066 --> 01:32:11,026
JOE: Yeah, which smashes together...
McFEELY: That's right.
1858
01:32:11,110 --> 01:32:14,279
And again, if you're a fan,
you may even know what's coming,
1859
01:32:14,363 --> 01:32:15,948
if you remember this song.
1860
01:32:16,490 --> 01:32:17,491
ANTHONY: Yeah.
1861
01:32:20,369 --> 01:32:21,578
('70s FUNK ROCK SONG PLAYING)
1862
01:32:21,662 --> 01:32:23,038
McFEELY:
And that's a movie star entrance.
1863
01:32:23,539 --> 01:32:25,749
JOE: And it's celebratory.
McFEELY: That's right.
1864
01:32:25,916 --> 01:32:28,961
JOE: And, you know,
I think this sequence is building
1865
01:32:30,337 --> 01:32:34,800
to a warm and fulfilling,
1866
01:32:34,883 --> 01:32:37,052
hopefully fulfilling climax.
1867
01:32:39,763 --> 01:32:42,558
- And then it will take a tragic turn.
- McFEELY: Right.
1868
01:32:43,726 --> 01:32:48,021
JOE: But for now, the job is to
1869
01:32:50,107 --> 01:32:52,359
make you feel for the characters.
1870
01:32:52,943 --> 01:32:55,237
Have them have, as we said,
emotional moments
1871
01:32:55,320 --> 01:32:56,989
and moments of repair.
1872
01:32:57,072 --> 01:32:58,907
See different perspectives
1873
01:33:00,701 --> 01:33:04,413
on previous events in the Marvel films.
1874
01:33:06,540 --> 01:33:08,792
Clearly, Quill is just a guy
with a Walkman on,
1875
01:33:09,251 --> 01:33:10,878
who's singing out of tune.
1876
01:33:10,961 --> 01:33:12,421
- McFEELY: His jaw's broken there, right?
-(JOE CHUCKLES)
1877
01:33:12,838 --> 01:33:14,506
MARKUS: At the very least...
1878
01:33:16,133 --> 01:33:18,135
ANTHONY: There's some brain damage,
for sure.
1879
01:33:21,430 --> 01:33:22,723
RHODES: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
1880
01:33:23,474 --> 01:33:25,100
This is the part
where spikes come out...
1881
01:33:25,267 --> 01:33:26,685
with skeletons on the end of them
and everything.
1882
01:33:26,852 --> 01:33:28,061
What are you talking about?
1883
01:33:28,228 --> 01:33:30,564
When you break into a place called
"The Temple of the Power Stone"...
1884
01:33:30,731 --> 01:33:32,024
there's gonna be a bunch of booby traps.
1885
01:33:32,191 --> 01:33:34,443
- Oh, my God.
- Okay. All right. Go ahead.
1886
01:33:36,987 --> 01:33:39,031
JOE: A little bit
of Cheadle improv there.
1887
01:33:40,491 --> 01:33:42,576
ANTHONY: Yeah.
JOE: When, I can't remember.
1888
01:33:42,701 --> 01:33:44,661
McFEELY: At the end of it, maybe.
JOE: He's playing with that, yeah.
1889
01:33:44,745 --> 01:33:48,081
McFEELY: But the Power Stone stuff
at the temple was scripted.
1890
01:33:48,165 --> 01:33:50,626
And this beat always...
Again, it's small,
1891
01:33:50,709 --> 01:33:54,630
but it's two characters
who have suffered
1892
01:33:55,881 --> 01:33:58,133
- and move on with prosthetics.
- JOE: Yeah.
1893
01:33:58,967 --> 01:34:02,262
And also allows you
to tell the difference between the two.
1894
01:34:02,346 --> 01:34:04,264
McFEELY: Yes, it's doing that as well.
1895
01:34:05,766 --> 01:34:08,018
JOE: Later in the film, one of them has
1896
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:11,146
a destroyed arm.
1897
01:34:12,940 --> 01:34:14,399
But we work with what we got, right?
1898
01:34:16,401 --> 01:34:17,486
Hmm.
1899
01:34:18,570 --> 01:34:20,656
McFEELY: If only she was faster
on the draw here.
1900
01:34:21,990 --> 01:34:23,283
JOE: Yeah, it would change everything.
1901
01:34:24,827 --> 01:34:26,119
MARKUS: It's not so much the draw,
1902
01:34:26,203 --> 01:34:30,541
I think she's having
a little aphasia there. She can't move.
1903
01:34:31,834 --> 01:34:33,210
(GROANING)
1904
01:34:35,796 --> 01:34:36,922
(SCREAMING)
1905
01:34:37,005 --> 01:34:38,632
BANNER: You murdered trillions!
1906
01:34:38,799 --> 01:34:40,217
THANOS: You should be grateful.
1907
01:34:40,300 --> 01:34:41,593
(BANNER GRUNTS)
1908
01:34:41,844 --> 01:34:45,222
MARKUS: And this moment is one of
my favorite moments in the movie
1909
01:34:47,474 --> 01:34:49,726
where Thanos
gets nothing but satisfaction
1910
01:34:49,810 --> 01:34:50,978
from seeing his head chopped off.
1911
01:34:51,854 --> 01:34:53,981
ANTHONY: Yeah, it's vindication.
MARKUS: Just confirmation
1912
01:34:54,064 --> 01:34:56,567
- that he is on the right track.
- (ANTHONY CHUCKLES)
1913
01:34:57,776 --> 01:35:00,028
JOE: Well, I think that's always at...
1914
01:35:02,948 --> 01:35:05,617
Thanos supporters online,
1915
01:35:06,410 --> 01:35:09,705
what is exciting to them
about him as a character
1916
01:35:09,788 --> 01:35:13,542
is his monastic dedication
to his mission.
1917
01:35:15,210 --> 01:35:18,380
And he is willing to die
for the mission.
1918
01:35:19,381 --> 01:35:21,049
The stones.
1919
01:35:21,967 --> 01:35:23,886
I found them all.
1920
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:28,265
JOE: So, what's great about having
21 years of backstory
1921
01:35:28,849 --> 01:35:32,102
is that you have rich lives
for your characters.
1922
01:35:32,853 --> 01:35:35,981
And as this is just prior to Gamora
1923
01:35:39,026 --> 01:35:42,571
wanting to escape Thanos in Guardians...
1924
01:35:42,654 --> 01:35:44,656
You see that moment
where he touches her hair,
1925
01:35:44,740 --> 01:35:48,869
and her eyes flit away from him
in semi-disgust.
1926
01:35:48,952 --> 01:35:51,496
She drops to her knees,
a way to just avoid his touch.
1927
01:35:54,583 --> 01:35:58,670
You get a sense that the two of them
are having very different reactions
1928
01:35:58,754 --> 01:36:01,173
to this information that he is learning.
1929
01:36:01,256 --> 01:36:04,384
MARKUS: Well, she also knows,
in the back of her head,
1930
01:36:04,468 --> 01:36:06,470
if he gets all the stones in the future,
1931
01:36:06,637 --> 01:36:09,097
that means he finds out
where the Soul Stone is
1932
01:36:09,181 --> 01:36:13,352
and she is the only person who knows
where the Soul Stone is.
1933
01:36:13,852 --> 01:36:16,146
JOE: She also placed her hand
on her weapon there when Maw...
1934
01:36:16,229 --> 01:36:17,230
McFEELY: Yes, I noted that, yeah.
1935
01:36:17,773 --> 01:36:22,903
It's a lot of juggling
by both Karen and Zoe in these scenes.
1936
01:36:23,111 --> 01:36:24,655
JOE: Yeah.
1937
01:36:25,572 --> 01:36:27,908
And fantastic performances.
Just think about it, as an actor,
1938
01:36:27,991 --> 01:36:31,119
going backwards
in the life of your character.
1939
01:36:31,203 --> 01:36:32,287
And resetting them
1940
01:36:32,371 --> 01:36:34,957
and having to remember
where you were years before.
1941
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:36,291
McFEELY: For sure, and in Zoe's case,
1942
01:36:36,375 --> 01:36:41,171
I think she's got new information
about her character at that moment,
1943
01:36:41,254 --> 01:36:45,926
given that Infinity War was conceived
after Guardians.
1944
01:36:46,009 --> 01:36:47,427
Come in, we have a...
1945
01:36:47,594 --> 01:36:48,929
Thanos knows.
1946
01:36:49,596 --> 01:36:50,847
Thanos...
1947
01:36:55,811 --> 01:36:57,854
JOE: Just remember,
he set course for Morag...
1948
01:36:58,105 --> 01:36:59,189
McFEELY: Right.
1949
01:36:59,606 --> 01:37:01,149
JOE: ...a few scenes ago.
1950
01:37:02,109 --> 01:37:03,610
And this is why.
1951
01:37:04,569 --> 01:37:05,654
TONY: Cap.
1952
01:37:06,196 --> 01:37:07,864
MARKUS: And now, back to New York.
1953
01:37:09,533 --> 01:37:13,161
JOE: Which might be one
of the trickier cuts in this sequence
1954
01:37:13,245 --> 01:37:14,538
because it's been
a little while since...
1955
01:37:14,621 --> 01:37:17,124
McFEELY: We were always gonna be gone
from somebody for a while.
1956
01:37:17,207 --> 01:37:20,460
JOE: Right, so you have to
remember here... "Oh, yeah.
1957
01:37:21,461 --> 01:37:23,213
"Tony got knocked down by the Hulk
1958
01:37:23,296 --> 01:37:26,049
"and Loki made off
with the Space Stone."
1959
01:37:26,133 --> 01:37:27,259
McFEELY: Funny reset.
1960
01:37:29,970 --> 01:37:31,096
MARKUS: It's not just the end of...
1961
01:37:31,179 --> 01:37:33,807
It's not just the continuation
of that thread.
1962
01:37:33,890 --> 01:37:35,100
It's the beginning of a new sequence.
1963
01:37:36,059 --> 01:37:38,103
McFEELY: That's right.
And remember, every stone mission
1964
01:37:38,186 --> 01:37:40,522
not only is doing emotional things
and then getting stones,
1965
01:37:40,605 --> 01:37:44,317
but there are other
unpredictable complications
1966
01:37:44,401 --> 01:37:46,611
in every one of them,
some greater than others.
1967
01:37:46,695 --> 01:37:48,113
But you can go right down the line
by, you know,
1968
01:37:49,573 --> 01:37:52,534
finding Frigga,
going off course with Frigga,
1969
01:37:52,617 --> 01:37:55,328
the Ancient One being there
when they weren't expecting it,
1970
01:37:55,704 --> 01:37:57,956
losing a stone here to Loki,
1971
01:37:58,540 --> 01:38:00,584
Thanos getting onto the mission.
1972
01:38:00,751 --> 01:38:03,462
These all are intertwined.
1973
01:38:06,590 --> 01:38:08,717
JOE: Now here's another
performance where
1974
01:38:10,844 --> 01:38:13,430
an actor is committing to the stakes
1975
01:38:13,513 --> 01:38:15,307
and making the scene funnier
because of it.
1976
01:38:15,390 --> 01:38:16,850
Paul Rudd
1977
01:38:18,101 --> 01:38:20,103
pushing against Robert Downey.
1978
01:38:20,937 --> 01:38:21,980
TONY: Suit up.
1979
01:38:22,064 --> 01:38:23,440
What's in New Jersey?
1980
01:38:23,523 --> 01:38:25,525
JOE: And Chris Evans in this scene.
1981
01:38:26,109 --> 01:38:27,986
- Excuse me.
- 1 -9-7-0.
1982
01:38:28,445 --> 01:38:29,446
Are you sure?
1983
01:38:30,197 --> 01:38:33,033
McFEELY: And we're hiding the ball
on where they're going.
1984
01:38:33,200 --> 01:38:34,701
America. Rogers.
1985
01:38:34,785 --> 01:38:35,994
Look, if you do this...
1986
01:38:36,411 --> 01:38:38,121
JOE: And I think one of the...
1987
01:38:38,205 --> 01:38:42,125
I mean, not one of the,
perhaps the best pairing
1988
01:38:42,292 --> 01:38:47,714
of characters in the Infinity Saga,
Cap and Tony.
1989
01:38:48,173 --> 01:38:51,301
McFEELY: Oh, sure. The whole thing
is based on their crossing arcs.
1990
01:38:51,384 --> 01:38:52,511
We've talked about this before.
1991
01:38:52,594 --> 01:38:55,555
The idea that Tony goes
1992
01:38:56,014 --> 01:38:58,767
from selfish to selfless
over the course of these movies...
1993
01:38:58,850 --> 01:39:01,394
MARKUS: I'm just gonna
interrupt you for the...
1994
01:39:01,478 --> 01:39:02,479
JOE: "Nuff said."
1995
01:39:02,562 --> 01:39:05,273
MARKUS: "Nuff said," last appearance
1996
01:39:06,191 --> 01:39:08,443
during his lifetime of Stan Lee,
1997
01:39:09,402 --> 01:39:13,490
who had a grand old time
dressing up as his former self.
1998
01:39:13,573 --> 01:39:16,409
McFEELY: And who'd been Lola'd, right?
That was the idea.
1999
01:39:16,493 --> 01:39:17,702
JOE: Yeah, he was de-aged there
2000
01:39:17,786 --> 01:39:21,164
so it looks more like Stan
in that time period.
2001
01:39:21,248 --> 01:39:24,417
MARKUS: And there is that famous picture
of Stan in the '70s
2002
01:39:24,835 --> 01:39:27,671
wearing that outfit, with that hair
2003
01:39:29,548 --> 01:39:32,092
and now the best cameo in the movie.
2004
01:39:32,175 --> 01:39:33,510
(McFEELY LAUGHS)
2005
01:39:33,802 --> 01:39:37,764
MARKUS: "Oh, who's Mr. Chubby?
There he goes."
2006
01:39:38,056 --> 01:39:39,933
Not that guy. The other guy.
2007
01:39:41,726 --> 01:39:44,604
McFEELY: It's delightful.
You crushed it.
2008
01:39:44,688 --> 01:39:48,608
JOE: And talk about fortuitous moments
in storytelling,
2009
01:39:49,985 --> 01:39:53,989
you actually have a location
that would have contained...
2010
01:39:54,072 --> 01:39:55,240
McFEELY: Yes.
2011
01:39:55,323 --> 01:39:59,327
JOE: ...Howard Stark, Hank Pym
and Peggy Carter.
2012
01:39:59,411 --> 01:40:01,329
McFEELY: That's right.
JOE: All at the same time.
2013
01:40:01,872 --> 01:40:06,585
MARKUS: It's one of those moments
where the various MCU strands
2014
01:40:06,668 --> 01:40:09,421
come together
in a really satisfying way.
2015
01:40:10,547 --> 01:40:12,424
You have the flashback
from the beginning of Ant-Man,
2016
01:40:12,841 --> 01:40:17,304
you have the first Captain America,
you have Winter Soldier happening here.
2017
01:40:20,515 --> 01:40:23,602
And all of Tony's various relationships
with his dad
2018
01:40:23,685 --> 01:40:25,770
throughout the whole series.
2019
01:40:26,354 --> 01:40:29,858
JOE: I think the tone
of the end of the movie changes
2020
01:40:29,941 --> 01:40:33,778
without this chance encounter
between he and his father.
2021
01:40:33,862 --> 01:40:36,406
MARKUS: Oh, yeah.
JOE: It's not as hopeful.
2022
01:40:36,489 --> 01:40:39,868
It's not as much resolve
for Tony as a character.
2023
01:40:42,370 --> 01:40:47,083
MARKUS: It's his final
unresolved personal issue.
2024
01:40:50,128 --> 01:40:53,215
And probably his longest-standing one
in the series.
2025
01:40:53,298 --> 01:40:57,177
McFEELY: Sure, and certainly one
we've hit several times.
2026
01:40:59,596 --> 01:41:00,931
Hey!
2027
01:41:01,598 --> 01:41:03,308
The door is this way, pal.
2028
01:41:04,100 --> 01:41:05,185
Oh, yeah.
2029
01:41:05,352 --> 01:41:07,229
Looking for Doctor Zola,
have you seen him?
2030
01:41:09,231 --> 01:41:14,152
McFEELY: And it is remarkable what
visual effects will allow us to do now.
2031
01:41:14,236 --> 01:41:18,156
We certainly would not have tackled
this story 15 years ago. (LAUGHS)
2032
01:41:18,240 --> 01:41:19,783
JOE: No, and trying to do it
with makeup...
2033
01:41:19,866 --> 01:41:22,118
McFEELY: It would just be makeup.
2034
01:41:23,703 --> 01:41:24,829
Got a name?
2035
01:41:24,996 --> 01:41:28,291
JOE: This is a great performance
between these two actors here.
2036
01:41:29,334 --> 01:41:32,379
Filled with so much...
It's so pregnant with
2037
01:41:34,631 --> 01:41:36,508
their history.
2038
01:41:36,591 --> 01:41:37,592
Yeah.
2039
01:41:38,718 --> 01:41:40,971
MARKUS:
This is one of those opportunities
2040
01:41:41,054 --> 01:41:45,517
that working in this genre allows you,
2041
01:41:45,934 --> 01:41:50,188
and it's not just men in capes
smashing through things.
2042
01:41:50,272 --> 01:41:52,399
You have the opportunity
to take a son...
2043
01:41:52,482 --> 01:41:54,150
Need your briefcase?
2044
01:41:54,276 --> 01:41:56,695
MARKUS: ...and put him in a scene
with his own father,
2045
01:41:56,778 --> 01:41:59,447
where the son is older than the father.
2046
01:42:00,282 --> 01:42:03,076
The son has a child,
so has more experience in parenting
2047
01:42:03,159 --> 01:42:06,663
than the father
whose wife is pregnant with the son.
2048
01:42:06,913 --> 01:42:08,707
HANK PYM: Hello?
STEVE: (ON PHONE) Doctor Pym?
2049
01:42:10,542 --> 01:42:15,797
MARKUS: We don't play it for laughs,
but it's just pure emotion.
2050
01:42:15,880 --> 01:42:18,508
McFEELY: The best science fiction
can do this kind of stuff.
2051
01:42:18,591 --> 01:42:21,052
JOE: Now, this clearly
would have been impossible 15 years ago.
2052
01:42:21,136 --> 01:42:22,887
McFEELY: Right. Exactly. (CHUCKLES)
2053
01:42:23,179 --> 01:42:24,180
JOE: Look at that.
2054
01:42:24,264 --> 01:42:26,433
The Streets of San Francisco
Michael Douglas.
2055
01:42:26,558 --> 01:42:27,851
(McFEELY LAUGHS)
2056
01:42:27,934 --> 01:42:29,978
JOE: Right there. Incredible.
2057
01:42:30,562 --> 01:42:34,524
MARKUS: And I just wanna retroactively,
tip of the hat to Russell Bobbitt
2058
01:42:34,607 --> 01:42:37,819
for providing
that vintage Ant-Man helmet
2059
01:42:37,902 --> 01:42:39,404
we just saw a moment ago.
2060
01:42:40,780 --> 01:42:44,576
JOE: "Captain Stevens, shipping."
2061
01:42:49,748 --> 01:42:54,210
Now, not only is it Howard Stark,
Hank Pym and Peggy Carter,
2062
01:42:55,962 --> 01:42:59,507
it's Space Stone and Pym Particles.
2063
01:42:59,591 --> 01:43:01,843
McFEELY: So, it turns out,
we needed more MacGuffins.
2064
01:43:01,926 --> 01:43:03,845
MARKUS: Yes.
McFEELY: We just said, "Boy, six?
2065
01:43:03,928 --> 01:43:08,433
"Jeez, I think,
let's challenge ourselves."
2066
01:43:09,517 --> 01:43:12,854
He's bringing sauerkraut
because my mom craved sauerkraut
2067
01:43:12,937 --> 01:43:14,564
when she was pregnant with me.
2068
01:43:15,690 --> 01:43:17,108
That's the McFeely Easter egg.
2069
01:43:17,192 --> 01:43:20,236
JOE: Yeah, there's a lot of
personal touches in the script.
2070
01:43:21,780 --> 01:43:23,281
Think about their story.
2071
01:43:23,782 --> 01:43:27,952
In Civil War, you see that these two
have a dysfunctional relationship
2072
01:43:28,036 --> 01:43:30,705
and that Tony is...
2073
01:43:30,789 --> 01:43:35,960
A part of Tony's petulant personality
2074
01:43:36,044 --> 01:43:38,630
comes from his hard-ass father.
2075
01:43:38,713 --> 01:43:39,923
McFEELY: That's right.
2076
01:43:43,009 --> 01:43:45,512
JOE: Or his sort of uncaring father,
2077
01:43:45,595 --> 01:43:47,472
or what he believes
was his uncaring father.
2078
01:43:48,181 --> 01:43:50,266
And then he sees him brutally murdered,
2079
01:43:51,726 --> 01:43:56,648
which creates an incredible...
2080
01:43:57,065 --> 01:43:58,942
We have a potential breach.
2081
01:44:00,068 --> 01:44:03,780
JOE: Creates incredible pain inside Tony
that he cannot resolve.
2082
01:44:03,863 --> 01:44:07,951
And, I think, creates the rift
between he and Steve.
2083
01:44:08,034 --> 01:44:10,078
Now he's able to go back into the past,
2084
01:44:10,912 --> 01:44:12,414
as is Steve here.
2085
01:44:14,666 --> 01:44:16,751
McFEELY: Our first draft
did not have this,
2086
01:44:18,461 --> 01:44:21,631
and it would have been a shame.
(CHUCKLES) It's really lovely.
2087
01:44:23,299 --> 01:44:25,427
Just the structure of the scene.
2088
01:44:25,510 --> 01:44:28,304
The production design,
setting up this office
2089
01:44:28,388 --> 01:44:31,724
in such a way that he can be in shadow,
and she can be in light.
2090
01:44:31,808 --> 01:44:33,351
JOE: And that performance from Evans,
2091
01:44:33,435 --> 01:44:37,105
the longing on his face
without a single line of dialogue,
2092
01:44:37,188 --> 01:44:42,861
you understand
how important she is to him
2093
01:44:42,944 --> 01:44:44,237
and how much he misses her.
2094
01:44:44,904 --> 01:44:46,573
McFEELY: This is now the fourth time...
2095
01:44:46,656 --> 01:44:48,825
So, even if you somehow didn't see
any of the movies,
2096
01:44:48,908 --> 01:44:51,077
you know who this person is to him.
2097
01:44:51,286 --> 01:44:53,913
MARKUS: And by seeing
his picture on her desk,
2098
01:44:53,997 --> 01:44:56,458
he gets a little bit of confirmation
2099
01:44:57,876 --> 01:44:59,794
that she wants the same thing he does.
2100
01:45:00,211 --> 01:45:01,212
McFEELY: Or hasn't let it go.
2101
01:45:01,296 --> 01:45:04,591
MARKUS: Yeah, so that
if he were to go back...
2102
01:45:04,757 --> 01:45:05,925
McFEELY: Right.
2103
01:45:07,802 --> 01:45:10,221
MARKUS: ...you know,
it might be reciprocal.
2104
01:45:10,305 --> 01:45:13,308
JOE: Now, here is the son
giving the father advice.
2105
01:45:13,391 --> 01:45:14,559
McFEELY: Yeah.
2106
01:45:14,642 --> 01:45:17,061
JOE: It'll help the father,
moving forward.
2107
01:45:17,729 --> 01:45:19,439
- Yeah.
- Did you feel qualified?
2108
01:45:21,691 --> 01:45:25,445
MARKUS: There's one nice indication here
that maybe the reason
2109
01:45:25,528 --> 01:45:26,821
Howard was a hard-ass to Tony
2110
01:45:26,905 --> 01:45:29,115
is that he didn't want Tony
to turn out like him.
2111
01:45:29,199 --> 01:45:31,493
And if you go back in the MCU
2112
01:45:32,952 --> 01:45:35,830
and see Dominic Cooper,
he was quite like Tony.
2113
01:45:35,914 --> 01:45:36,956
McFEELY: Right.
2114
01:45:38,583 --> 01:45:42,212
JOE: That's Tony gaining insight
into who his father was.
2115
01:45:42,295 --> 01:45:44,088
McFEELY: Oh, yeah, he says here,
"My old man..."
2116
01:45:45,006 --> 01:45:46,007
- You know?
-JOE: Right.
2117
01:45:46,090 --> 01:45:49,385
McFEELY: "...only solved problems
with a belt."
2118
01:45:50,011 --> 01:45:53,014
...that kid's not even here yet and
there's nothing I wouldn't do for him.
2119
01:46:00,730 --> 01:46:03,983
JOE: This is one of the best jokes
in the movie that...
2120
01:46:04,734 --> 01:46:07,529
McFEELY: Where he leans over him?
JOE: Yeah, it gets swallowed
2121
01:46:09,280 --> 01:46:10,281
by laughter here,
2122
01:46:12,659 --> 01:46:16,162
where he actually says,
"Thank you for your service..."
2123
01:46:19,165 --> 01:46:22,335
MARKUS: And of course,
James D'Arcy as Jarvis.
2124
01:46:22,502 --> 01:46:25,171
McFEELY: Yes,
currently the only character
2125
01:46:25,255 --> 01:46:27,340
that's gone from television to the films
2126
01:46:27,924 --> 01:46:30,510
- from Agent Carter.
- JOE: That's right, and I wonder why.
2127
01:46:30,593 --> 01:46:31,636
(McFEELY LAUGHS)
2128
01:46:31,719 --> 01:46:33,471
MARKUS: 'Cause he's magnificent,
that's why.
2129
01:46:33,555 --> 01:46:36,432
McFEELY: It was organic,
and, you know...
2130
01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:38,601
MARKUS: There's a wonderful thread
2131
01:46:40,228 --> 01:46:44,774
between Jarvis
and Tony naming his AI after him
2132
01:46:44,857 --> 01:46:46,985
and then that AI becoming Vision.
2133
01:46:47,235 --> 01:46:49,404
McFEELY: This is actually interesting
to talk about.
2134
01:46:49,487 --> 01:46:50,863
This is a lesson we learned late.
2135
01:46:51,030 --> 01:46:55,743
We first tried to play this,
what we say, call it "card down,"
2136
01:46:55,827 --> 01:46:59,080
where it was a mystery to the audience.
We kept this from the audience,
2137
01:46:59,163 --> 01:47:03,418
the idea that Thanos was going to use
2138
01:47:03,585 --> 01:47:07,338
his version of Nebula
to replace future Nebula.
2139
01:47:08,089 --> 01:47:10,550
It didn't work.
It was complicated and it was confusing.
2140
01:47:10,842 --> 01:47:13,303
Our worry was that,
if you did it this way,
2141
01:47:13,386 --> 01:47:16,723
the audience would be ahead
of some pretty emotional moments
2142
01:47:16,806 --> 01:47:18,850
involving bringing all the people back.
2143
01:47:18,933 --> 01:47:21,811
This is much better.
It's much stronger for Karen Gillan.
2144
01:47:21,894 --> 01:47:22,895
ANTHONY: Yeah.
2145
01:47:22,979 --> 01:47:24,731
McFEELY: You know,
it's much cleaner and clearer
2146
01:47:24,814 --> 01:47:26,149
to the audience what's going on.
(CHUCKLES)
2147
01:47:26,232 --> 01:47:27,400
ANTHONY: Yeah.
2148
01:47:28,067 --> 01:47:31,195
MARKUS: It also lets you sit with more
of the time travel weirdness
2149
01:47:31,279 --> 01:47:32,280
as opposed to...
2150
01:47:33,531 --> 01:47:36,451
We were actually hiding
a very strange encounter
2151
01:47:36,534 --> 01:47:39,954
that you wouldn't ordinarily
have the opportunity to have in a movie.
2152
01:47:40,705 --> 01:47:41,873
Why not do it?
2153
01:47:41,956 --> 01:47:43,875
JOE: Kudos again to Karen,
for this performance.
2154
01:47:44,917 --> 01:47:46,919
It's very difficult as an actor,
2155
01:47:47,670 --> 01:47:51,049
within an hour of each performance,
2156
01:47:51,132 --> 01:47:53,426
having to perform the other character.
2157
01:47:53,885 --> 01:47:55,595
They're so different.
2158
01:47:55,887 --> 01:47:59,474
One is hateful
and the other is enlightened.
2159
01:48:00,600 --> 01:48:01,851
And here is Thanos
2160
01:48:03,561 --> 01:48:05,563
gaining Pym Particles.
2161
01:48:09,942 --> 01:48:12,111
Now, the obvious assumption being that
2162
01:48:14,364 --> 01:48:16,324
Thanos, who has a spaceship
2163
01:48:16,407 --> 01:48:19,535
that can carry his army throughout
the galaxy and conquer planets,
2164
01:48:19,619 --> 01:48:21,537
can also figure out how...
2165
01:48:21,621 --> 01:48:23,706
McFEELY: Science up a little.
JOE: Yes.
2166
01:48:23,790 --> 01:48:26,668
- Add some Pym Particles...
- McFEELY: Best not to dwell on it.
2167
01:48:26,751 --> 01:48:31,089
JOE: ...with his magician
who can move matter.
2168
01:48:31,255 --> 01:48:32,840
McFEELY: That's right.
2169
01:48:32,924 --> 01:48:35,259
MARKUS: Now,
if you remember Infinity War,
2170
01:48:35,343 --> 01:48:38,471
and you probably do
if you're seeing this movie,
2171
01:48:38,554 --> 01:48:41,766
when you get to Vormir,
your dread starts to build
2172
01:48:41,849 --> 01:48:44,852
because you know what the price
2173
01:48:45,978 --> 01:48:48,189
for the Soul Stone is.
2174
01:48:48,272 --> 01:48:51,359
McFEELY: And so, act construction-wise,
this was always going to be the last.
2175
01:48:52,443 --> 01:48:55,071
And I think that Jeff Ford
and you guys, in editing,
2176
01:48:55,154 --> 01:48:59,158
sort of moved pieces around so that
it pretty much all came together.
2177
01:48:59,242 --> 01:49:01,244
It wasn't intercut in any way,
which is smart,
2178
01:49:01,411 --> 01:49:04,747
because it is the end of Act Two,
it is the darkest thing that can happen.
2179
01:49:04,831 --> 01:49:05,998
JOE: Or we're losing emotional momentum
2180
01:49:06,082 --> 01:49:07,625
- when we're cutting it up.
- McFEELY: That's the thing.
2181
01:49:07,709 --> 01:49:10,002
JOE: And I think, yes,
2182
01:49:10,086 --> 01:49:13,548
it's tonally very different
than what's happening around it.
2183
01:49:14,090 --> 01:49:19,721
So, you're gaining repair
with Tony and his father,
2184
01:49:19,804 --> 01:49:24,225
sense of longing from Cap,
you're hoping for repair there.
2185
01:49:24,434 --> 01:49:27,729
And if you were to intercut that
with what you know
2186
01:49:27,812 --> 01:49:29,731
is ultimately going to be
someone's death scene...
2187
01:49:29,897 --> 01:49:32,984
McFEELY: Yeah, you would only cut it
right around here.
2188
01:49:33,067 --> 01:49:34,902
It'd be an open question.
2189
01:49:34,986 --> 01:49:36,988
JOE: And your brain
may be focused more on,
2190
01:49:37,071 --> 01:49:38,281
"I need to get back to Vormir
and figure out..."
2191
01:49:38,364 --> 01:49:39,907
McFEELY: Who's gonna die? Right.
2192
01:49:39,991 --> 01:49:41,576
JOE: "...what's gonna happen there."
2193
01:49:42,493 --> 01:49:45,663
McFEELY: And again, just constructing
the act and the scenes...
2194
01:49:47,832 --> 01:49:51,252
A pair of people who could
arguably love each other
2195
01:49:51,335 --> 01:49:53,087
needed to go to Vormir for this to work.
2196
01:49:53,171 --> 01:49:54,172
JOE: That is correct.
2197
01:49:55,298 --> 01:49:58,301
McFEELY: And this was the obvious
pairing in our minds.
2198
01:49:58,760 --> 01:50:02,263
And then the question becomes,
who is going to be the one to go over
2199
01:50:02,346 --> 01:50:04,182
and how is that going to get done.
2200
01:50:04,265 --> 01:50:05,892
We actually reshot this.
2201
01:50:05,975 --> 01:50:09,604
This is much better than what we had.
It was a little more complicated.
2202
01:50:09,687 --> 01:50:15,818
It was Thanos sending a small army
to pretend to try to stop them.
2203
01:50:15,902 --> 01:50:17,653
It was sort of awkward.
2204
01:50:17,737 --> 01:50:21,073
JOE: It was overthinking.
McFEELY: Sort of kabuki theater.
2205
01:50:21,157 --> 01:50:25,703
MARKUS: While it lit a fire under them
to do the act,
2206
01:50:27,246 --> 01:50:29,624
it also took
a little of the agency away...
2207
01:50:29,707 --> 01:50:31,042
JOE: And we lost the characters.
2208
01:50:31,125 --> 01:50:32,460
MARKUS: Yeah.
McFEELY: That's right.
2209
01:50:34,754 --> 01:50:37,256
JOE: I think, in the edit room,
we came up with...
2210
01:50:39,008 --> 01:50:40,009
McFEELY: That's right.
2211
01:50:40,092 --> 01:50:42,094
JOE: ...this tragic structure,
2212
01:50:42,178 --> 01:50:45,807
which is two people who love each other
2213
01:50:45,890 --> 01:50:50,269
fighting to see who's going to
jump off a cliff and kill themselves.
2214
01:50:51,771 --> 01:50:54,607
And the tension in the scene,
2215
01:50:57,109 --> 01:50:59,570
the pain that the audience feels,
2216
01:51:00,196 --> 01:51:03,783
because any second,
it could be either one of them.
2217
01:51:06,202 --> 01:51:08,663
And as you said,
the sense of dread that you feel
2218
01:51:08,746 --> 01:51:11,165
only gets heightened
as they go back and forth.
2219
01:51:11,249 --> 01:51:12,583
McFEELY: That's right.
MARKUS: Yeah.
2220
01:51:12,667 --> 01:51:13,709
McFEELY: That's right.
2221
01:51:13,793 --> 01:51:18,589
I'm starting to think
we mean different people here, Natasha.
2222
01:51:18,673 --> 01:51:20,508
For the last five years,
I've been trying to do one thing.
2223
01:51:20,675 --> 01:51:21,926
Get to right here.
2224
01:51:22,093 --> 01:51:24,095
That's all it's been about.
Bringing everybody back.
2225
01:51:24,262 --> 01:51:26,472
No, don't you get all decent on me now.
2226
01:51:26,639 --> 01:51:28,641
What, you think I wanna do it?
2227
01:51:29,225 --> 01:51:30,977
I'm trying to save your life, you idiot.
2228
01:51:31,060 --> 01:51:32,228
Yeah, well, I don't want you to.
2229
01:51:32,311 --> 01:51:35,940
MARKUS: But she does sum it up here.
This is what she's been working toward.
2230
01:51:36,023 --> 01:51:40,069
This is the end point for her character
2231
01:51:40,653 --> 01:51:43,948
and the final resolution of her arc
2232
01:51:44,365 --> 01:51:49,495
from corrupted agent
all the way to entirely selfless.
2233
01:51:51,247 --> 01:51:53,708
JOE: Heroic act is to bring back
the community.
2234
01:51:53,791 --> 01:51:58,546
They have no chance
to bring back half the universe
2235
01:51:58,629 --> 01:52:02,049
unless one of them goes over this cliff,
and the other gets the stone.
2236
01:52:02,133 --> 01:52:07,096
McFEELY: Yeah, we wanted these folks
to be fighting to be the hero.
2237
01:52:07,179 --> 01:52:08,973
Right? They are both heroic.
2238
01:52:09,849 --> 01:52:13,311
She's fighting to save her family,
even though it'll cost her her life.
2239
01:52:14,687 --> 01:52:16,272
Again, we should probably talk about how
2240
01:52:16,397 --> 01:52:20,651
this is the first major female character
of the Marvel Universe.
2241
01:52:20,735 --> 01:52:24,155
We did not make this decision lightly.
2242
01:52:24,238 --> 01:52:26,324
She's not fighting
to save Clint's family.
2243
01:52:26,407 --> 01:52:30,036
I've seen some people say that
he has a family, and therefore...
2244
01:52:30,119 --> 01:52:31,203
That's not it at all.
2245
01:52:31,287 --> 01:52:32,371
She's fighting to save her family.
2246
01:52:32,455 --> 01:52:33,915
JOE: Completely incorrect
assumption, yes.
2247
01:52:35,458 --> 01:52:37,585
- And the billions who have died.
- McFEELY: Yeah.
2248
01:52:39,128 --> 01:52:40,880
I think it's incredibly heroic.
2249
01:52:41,422 --> 01:52:45,760
JOE: Well, that's the thing.
Death is not always a bad thing.
2250
01:52:45,843 --> 01:52:47,345
It can be a noble end.
2251
01:52:47,511 --> 01:52:49,555
And it can be spiritual,
2252
01:52:49,680 --> 01:52:51,724
and it can be, as you said, heroic.
2253
01:52:52,350 --> 01:52:57,104
If you sacrifice yourself for billions,
2254
01:52:57,605 --> 01:53:01,484
it would seem to be
a powerful ending to your story.
2255
01:53:02,026 --> 01:53:04,987
MARKUS: And for a character
who has been trying
2256
01:53:05,071 --> 01:53:08,574
to "erase the red in her ledger,"
to use Joss' phrase,
2257
01:53:09,784 --> 01:53:12,328
this is the final erasure.
2258
01:53:12,662 --> 01:53:15,081
McFEELY: That's what the arc
for all these folks is, right?
2259
01:53:15,164 --> 01:53:18,668
That she went from guilty
to erasing all this...
2260
01:53:18,751 --> 01:53:21,253
I can't think of a better end point.
2261
01:53:21,337 --> 01:53:22,463
JOE: No.
McFEELY: Right?
2262
01:53:22,630 --> 01:53:23,631
No.
2263
01:53:25,383 --> 01:53:26,384
No. Please, no.
2264
01:53:30,888 --> 01:53:35,393
JOE: And I understand it is sad for fans
to lose characters they love,
2265
01:53:35,476 --> 01:53:40,106
but you also have to look
for the deeper meaning behind the loss.
2266
01:53:40,189 --> 01:53:41,732
And again, as I say,
2267
01:53:41,816 --> 01:53:44,986
you can find inspiration
in choices that they make.
2268
01:53:45,069 --> 01:53:49,240
Again, these are heroes
making heroic choices.
2269
01:53:49,907 --> 01:53:52,952
McFEELY: Now, it means that she's not
in the movie for the last hour,
2270
01:53:53,035 --> 01:53:55,371
which is, of course, regretful.
2271
01:53:58,374 --> 01:53:59,667
This is kind of how it had to go.
2272
01:53:59,750 --> 01:54:01,085
The end of Act Two is,
2273
01:54:01,168 --> 01:54:02,753
"What's the worst thing
that can happen?"
2274
01:54:02,837 --> 01:54:05,297
And this is pretty much
the worst thing that can happen.
2275
01:54:05,381 --> 01:54:07,717
I guess it's tied with Tony
towards the end. (CHUCKLES)
2276
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:11,053
MARKUS: And one of the things
that separates,
2277
01:54:12,513 --> 01:54:14,765
tonally, the deaths in this movie,
2278
01:54:14,849 --> 01:54:20,438
from the non-snap deaths in Infinity War
2279
01:54:20,521 --> 01:54:25,317
is that they are almost
all the hero's choice in this movie.
2280
01:54:25,401 --> 01:54:29,447
In fact, I think they are entirely
the hero's choice in this movie.
2281
01:54:30,072 --> 01:54:32,283
Whereas Loki's death, Heimdall's death,
2282
01:54:32,366 --> 01:54:35,244
Gamora's death,
Vision's death in Infinity War
2283
01:54:35,327 --> 01:54:38,205
- were all done to them by Thanos...
- McFEELY: Murders.
2284
01:54:38,289 --> 01:54:41,375
MARKUS: ...which is
a much greater tragedy.
2285
01:54:42,710 --> 01:54:46,797
Here you have that heroic,
victorious sadness.
2286
01:54:48,966 --> 01:54:52,303
JOE: Another great performance
by Renner.
2287
01:54:53,637 --> 01:54:54,972
(SOBBING)
2288
01:55:12,698 --> 01:55:16,702
And they all return
seconds after they departed.
2289
01:55:17,787 --> 01:55:21,165
MARKUS: I love how happy
Don Cheadle here is, right before...
2290
01:55:21,624 --> 01:55:23,417
Are you telling me this actually worked?
2291
01:55:23,876 --> 01:55:27,088
JOE: They're focused on the mission.
The assumption isn't...
2292
01:55:27,171 --> 01:55:29,548
MARKUS: And they had this
ridiculous plan, and it worked.
2293
01:55:36,013 --> 01:55:37,014
(GASPS SOFTLY)
2294
01:55:37,098 --> 01:55:40,392
JOE: Another one of my favorite shots
is this overhead,
2295
01:55:43,354 --> 01:55:47,358
where it's all conveyed
through Hulk's body language.
2296
01:55:48,484 --> 01:55:49,693
This grief.
2297
01:55:58,035 --> 01:56:00,621
Now, this is a unique circumstance
for the Avengers.
2298
01:56:00,704 --> 01:56:05,709
They, for the first time,
have lost one of their own.
2299
01:56:06,544 --> 01:56:07,545
Huh?
2300
01:56:07,628 --> 01:56:09,004
- What are you doing?
- Just asked him a question.
2301
01:56:09,713 --> 01:56:11,632
MARKUS: And a necessary conversation,
2302
01:56:11,715 --> 01:56:17,304
given that they have just brought back
magic stones to bring back people.
2303
01:56:18,681 --> 01:56:20,266
Why couldn't they bring back her?
2304
01:56:20,349 --> 01:56:24,812
McFEELY: Right, that is some of the fine
line of the science fiction of it.
2305
01:56:24,895 --> 01:56:30,651
We don't want people to dwell
on the technicalities of stuff.
2306
01:56:32,778 --> 01:56:34,488
We want to embrace
the emotion of the scenes.
2307
01:56:34,572 --> 01:56:38,534
JOE: Red Skull very clearly says,
"It is an everlasting exchange."
2308
01:56:38,617 --> 01:56:39,660
McFEELY: Right.
2309
01:56:39,827 --> 01:56:43,831
JOE: And "everlasting" would imply
that it can't be undone.
2310
01:56:43,914 --> 01:56:45,166
MARKUS: Mmm-hmm.
2311
01:56:45,749 --> 01:56:49,086
Or that's at least
what the red, floating guy had to say.
2312
01:56:49,253 --> 01:56:50,713
Maybe you wanna go talk to him, okay?
2313
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:53,924
Go grab your hammer
and you go fly and you talk to him.
2314
01:57:02,474 --> 01:57:04,518
It was supposed to be me.
2315
01:57:08,397 --> 01:57:10,691
JOE: Again, as a director,
2316
01:57:11,567 --> 01:57:15,112
being able to work
with a cast this incredible
2317
01:57:15,988 --> 01:57:17,948
is such a gift.
2318
01:57:19,700 --> 01:57:22,745
Especially when characters
are in their lowest moments.
2319
01:57:24,288 --> 01:57:26,665
MARKUS: And you've seen these faces
go through so much over 22 movies.
2320
01:57:28,918 --> 01:57:31,253
It's all written right there.
2321
01:57:36,258 --> 01:57:39,887
There's a nice, after the tragedy,
just a nice return to comedy here
2322
01:57:39,970 --> 01:57:41,889
- with Rocket's "Boom!"
- McFEELY: But it's not immediate.
2323
01:57:41,972 --> 01:57:43,349
It takes a good 60 seconds,
2324
01:57:43,432 --> 01:57:46,060
it would have been weird
if it was too fast.
2325
01:57:46,143 --> 01:57:48,395
JOE: It takes Eitri, you know...
2326
01:57:50,356 --> 01:57:53,150
A legendary forge
to make the first glove
2327
01:57:53,234 --> 01:57:55,527
- and it takes...
- MARKUS: Just a little Tony Stark.
2328
01:57:55,611 --> 01:57:58,906
JOE: ...Banner, Tony and Rocket
to make the second one.
2329
01:58:01,200 --> 01:58:05,120
Three of the scientific geniuses
of the Marvel Universe.
2330
01:58:06,121 --> 01:58:07,122
TONY: Stop, stop. Slow down.
2331
01:58:08,207 --> 01:58:10,709
JOE: Here's Thor again,
searching for purpose.
2332
01:58:13,045 --> 01:58:14,171
"It should be me."
2333
01:58:14,255 --> 01:58:15,381
We should at least discuss it.
2334
01:58:18,092 --> 01:58:21,262
JOE: And we take a scene
to lay out the stakes
2335
01:58:21,804 --> 01:58:24,682
of what can happen to you
if you put that glove on.
2336
01:58:24,765 --> 01:58:26,809
If you're paying attention
at the beginning of the movie,
2337
01:58:27,059 --> 01:58:32,147
when you see Thanos,
his arm is almost gone at that point,
2338
01:58:32,231 --> 01:58:37,319
and he's used the stones twice
and he's crippled.
2339
01:58:38,028 --> 01:58:39,571
He has very little strength left.
2340
01:58:39,655 --> 01:58:43,867
That's why he's so easily defeated
in that scene in the cabin.
2341
01:58:44,827 --> 01:58:45,869
Cheez Whiz?
2342
01:58:46,245 --> 01:58:49,206
MARKUS: And I wanna,
before we destroy it,
2343
01:58:49,290 --> 01:58:53,419
give another little credit
to Charlie Wood and the lighting team.
2344
01:58:53,502 --> 01:58:55,462
This Avengers compound,
2345
01:58:55,546 --> 01:58:58,632
which appears to have natural sunlight
filtering through everything,
2346
01:58:58,716 --> 01:59:03,095
is in the abandoned conference room
2347
01:59:03,178 --> 01:59:07,599
of a semi-abandoned Sheraton
out by the Atlanta Airport,
2348
01:59:07,683 --> 01:59:12,438
and it's a magnificent-looking thing.
You'd never know.
2349
01:59:14,273 --> 01:59:17,484
JOE: That's a really great performance
from Ruffalo there.
2350
01:59:17,568 --> 01:59:21,905
I think that's ILM
doing really excellent work
2351
01:59:23,407 --> 01:59:27,870
with the emotional expressions
of Smart Hulk.
2352
01:59:31,707 --> 01:59:33,042
All right, so,
if you're paying attention,
2353
01:59:33,125 --> 01:59:35,377
- that hand should be destroyed.
- McFEELY: Mmm-hmm.
2354
01:59:37,004 --> 01:59:40,215
JOE: That would be your first clue.
2355
01:59:40,591 --> 01:59:41,592
Let's do it.
2356
01:59:44,219 --> 01:59:47,890
McFEELY: Just on
an act-construction level,
2357
01:59:47,973 --> 01:59:50,184
we were faced with a strange problem
2358
01:59:50,267 --> 01:59:53,604
where we needed two snaps
(CHUCKLES) of the Gauntlet.
2359
01:59:55,731 --> 01:59:57,107
And asked ourselves often,
2360
01:59:57,191 --> 01:59:58,692
"What does it mean
to bring everybody back?
2361
01:59:58,776 --> 02:00:00,152
"What is the best way to do that?"
2362
02:00:00,235 --> 02:00:03,322
We certainly tried a version
where everyone came back
2363
02:00:03,405 --> 02:00:05,532
and you knew it immediately,
and there they were.
2364
02:00:05,616 --> 02:00:09,119
Maybe they all came back to
wherever you wished them to come back.
2365
02:00:09,787 --> 02:00:12,915
And then Thanos attacked them
all at once.
2366
02:00:15,376 --> 02:00:19,630
Doing that prevented us from
a really heroic reveal,
2367
02:00:19,713 --> 02:00:23,384
which is coming in about 20 minutes,
where the cavalry comes.
2368
02:00:23,801 --> 02:00:27,388
JOE: And also, I think,
went counter to the logic
2369
02:00:27,471 --> 02:00:30,140
that everyone would just return to
the moment from which they disappeared.
2370
02:00:30,224 --> 02:00:31,225
McFEELY: That's the thing.
2371
02:00:31,308 --> 02:00:33,268
MARKUS: It also made the fight
feel like an afterthought
2372
02:00:33,352 --> 02:00:35,187
because they had
accomplished their goal.
2373
02:00:36,105 --> 02:00:39,691
Even if those people are brought back
when Hulk snaps his fingers,
2374
02:00:39,775 --> 02:00:45,239
you still have that lingering feeling
that all is not resolved yet.
2375
02:00:45,322 --> 02:00:47,449
JOE: We know how powerful Thanos is
2376
02:00:47,533 --> 02:00:51,829
by his quick defeat of the Hulk
in Infinity War.
2377
02:00:52,204 --> 02:00:56,291
So, this is
an incredibly painful experience,
2378
02:00:56,375 --> 02:00:59,628
to put on the Gauntlet
that controls the universe,
2379
02:01:00,045 --> 02:01:02,965
and it permanently damages
2380
02:01:04,091 --> 02:01:09,596
the most powerful beings and some of the
most powerful creatures in these movies.
2381
02:01:09,680 --> 02:01:13,267
And very few people can actually
put that on and survive.
2382
02:01:13,350 --> 02:01:15,894
McFEELY: Which means if a regular human
puts it on, he's a goner.
2383
02:01:15,978 --> 02:01:18,480
That's all set up
for the end of the movie.
2384
02:01:18,564 --> 02:01:21,066
JOE: Also which was set up,
right before he put the Gauntlet on,
2385
02:01:21,150 --> 02:01:24,653
was Tony Stark saying
that everyone comes back to now.
2386
02:01:24,736 --> 02:01:27,948
"Do not erase what happened.
I do not want to lose my child."
2387
02:01:28,615 --> 02:01:31,785
So, you bring them back.
They miss five years.
2388
02:01:31,869 --> 02:01:32,995
McFEELY: That's the thing.
2389
02:01:33,078 --> 02:01:37,082
I think some test audiences thought,
"Oh, did we just go back five years?"
2390
02:01:37,166 --> 02:01:38,500
And no.
2391
02:01:38,917 --> 02:01:40,794
JOE: No, we did not.
McFEELY: We own those five years.
2392
02:01:40,878 --> 02:01:43,130
JOE: And they did not age five years.
The people who're gone.
2393
02:01:43,213 --> 02:01:44,339
They just were brought back
2394
02:01:44,423 --> 02:01:46,842
to the exact moment
at which they went away,
2395
02:01:46,925 --> 02:01:48,218
but five years later.
2396
02:01:48,302 --> 02:01:51,138
So, Peter Parker
is still a high-schooler.
2397
02:01:51,221 --> 02:01:54,433
Ned, his buddy,
is still a high-schooler.
2398
02:01:54,516 --> 02:01:57,352
Because both of them had disappeared.
2399
02:01:57,436 --> 02:01:59,271
McFEELY: So, really,
the clue that it worked is,
2400
02:01:59,354 --> 02:02:01,607
I suppose, a few extra birds outside,
2401
02:02:01,690 --> 02:02:04,985
but mostly because Clint's wife
2402
02:02:06,528 --> 02:02:08,780
- calls him on the phone.
- JOE: Calls him. Yeah.
2403
02:02:08,864 --> 02:02:10,824
McFEELY: Her cell service still active.
2404
02:02:11,241 --> 02:02:13,035
JOE: It's almost a ghost story,
in a way.
2405
02:02:13,118 --> 02:02:15,704
It's a very haunting moment.
2406
02:02:16,747 --> 02:02:22,419
Someone that you've lost for five years
suddenly is calling you on the phone.
2407
02:02:22,503 --> 02:02:23,795
McFEELY: And again,
it wouldn't work as well
2408
02:02:23,879 --> 02:02:27,007
if you hadn't seen her
in this movie two hours ago.
2409
02:02:28,383 --> 02:02:29,384
Honey.
2410
02:02:29,468 --> 02:02:30,511
LAURA: Clint?
2411
02:02:30,594 --> 02:02:31,845
Honey.
2412
02:02:32,679 --> 02:02:34,014
Guys...
2413
02:02:34,681 --> 02:02:37,434
JOE: Now this was, you know...
2414
02:02:37,809 --> 02:02:41,063
This took, I think, the most thought
of anything in the script, right?
2415
02:02:41,563 --> 02:02:44,650
Was the moment at which
Hulk snapped his fingers,
2416
02:02:45,817 --> 02:02:47,319
you get back what you lost.
2417
02:02:48,529 --> 02:02:51,448
You could argue that
that is the end of the movie.
2418
02:02:51,532 --> 02:02:52,699
You've repaired it.
2419
02:02:54,493 --> 02:02:59,206
It clearly can't be the end of the film
because the villain is on to the story.
2420
02:02:59,289 --> 02:03:01,625
So, what could happen in that moment?
2421
02:03:01,708 --> 02:03:03,377
This took...
2422
02:03:03,460 --> 02:03:05,087
McFEELY: Right. We certainly had
a lot of versions...
2423
02:03:05,170 --> 02:03:07,256
JOE: A month or two to figure out.
McFEELY: Yeah.
2424
02:03:07,965 --> 02:03:10,509
How would his return...
What form would it take?
2425
02:03:10,592 --> 02:03:11,760
JOE: How would it complicate?
2426
02:03:11,843 --> 02:03:15,097
And I think the other thing
that we are always mindful of
2427
02:03:15,180 --> 02:03:18,392
is splitting characters up
into smaller groups
2428
02:03:19,059 --> 02:03:21,979
so that real moments can happen
between the characters.
2429
02:03:22,062 --> 02:03:23,522
McFEELY: I remember this.
MARKUS: Yeah.
2430
02:03:23,605 --> 02:03:27,317
JOE: So, I think we're all sitting
around talking about, well,
2431
02:03:27,401 --> 02:03:29,695
"All right, he snaps his fingers
and then what?
2432
02:03:29,778 --> 02:03:31,572
"What if the compound exploded?
2433
02:03:31,655 --> 02:03:33,824
"What if they were put
on their heels immediately?"
2434
02:03:35,075 --> 02:03:38,912
And the audience forgets
that those characters are back.
2435
02:03:39,079 --> 02:03:42,499
McFEELY: Oh, I think they do.
I think a lot of audience members...
2436
02:03:42,583 --> 02:03:45,627
Because we're gonna have
dire consequences here
2437
02:03:45,711 --> 02:03:47,337
for a good 20 minutes
2438
02:03:47,421 --> 02:03:49,673
before Cap's all alone
on that battlefield.
2439
02:03:49,756 --> 02:03:52,884
JOE: And that explosion allowed us
to break up the characters again.
2440
02:03:52,968 --> 02:03:55,095
Some people fell through the floor,
some didn't.
2441
02:03:55,178 --> 02:03:59,308
McFEELY: It means that the MacGuffins
are now in play.
2442
02:04:00,017 --> 02:04:02,644
JOE: Mmm.
Clint is alone with the Gauntlet.
2443
02:04:03,478 --> 02:04:06,315
MARKUS: Also, I will remind you
that there was another version
2444
02:04:08,775 --> 02:04:13,614
where Thanos opened up
a large portal on the battlefield
2445
02:04:13,697 --> 02:04:17,034
where it became evident
that in his own time frame,
2446
02:04:17,117 --> 02:04:18,952
he had come to Earth.
2447
02:04:19,036 --> 02:04:22,164
McFEELY: (CHUCKLES) Right.
MARKUS: And he walked up to them...
2448
02:04:22,247 --> 02:04:23,332
McFEELY: Yes.
2449
02:04:23,832 --> 02:04:27,169
MARKUS: ...and tossed
2012 Captain America's head
2450
02:04:27,252 --> 02:04:28,754
on the floor. (LAUGHS)
2451
02:04:29,338 --> 02:04:30,422
McFEELY: Well, we tried some things.
2452
02:04:30,505 --> 02:04:35,010
MARKUS: It seemed like it was
never gonna make it, but it was...
2453
02:04:35,093 --> 02:04:37,012
JOE: It was a shocking moment.
2454
02:04:37,095 --> 02:04:40,682
MARKUS: For a movie that began with
essentially Thanos' head on the floor,
2455
02:04:40,766 --> 02:04:42,851
it was a shocking reversal.
2456
02:04:45,187 --> 02:04:47,439
But perhaps a bridge too far.
2457
02:04:50,942 --> 02:04:52,903
JOE: We remember these guys.
2458
02:04:53,403 --> 02:04:55,238
MARKUS: (WHISPERS) Outriders.
2459
02:04:58,200 --> 02:04:59,701
(CREATURES SNARLING)
2460
02:05:00,410 --> 02:05:02,663
McFEELY: So, again, the construction
of the scenes are,
2461
02:05:02,746 --> 02:05:05,248
you've established
where the MacGuffin is.
2462
02:05:06,667 --> 02:05:10,045
What would happen if Thanos found them?
Oh, Thanos has just come to Earth.
2463
02:05:10,128 --> 02:05:13,507
Well, he's heading towards those things.
That's gonna be a problem.
2464
02:05:14,049 --> 02:05:15,175
Daughter.
2465
02:05:15,342 --> 02:05:16,510
Yes, Father.
2466
02:05:18,595 --> 02:05:21,306
MARKUS: And here you have
the final confirmation
2467
02:05:21,390 --> 02:05:24,267
of what has been going on
with your various Nebulas.
2468
02:05:24,351 --> 02:05:25,560
They suspected nothing.
2469
02:05:28,063 --> 02:05:33,860
JOE: And his decision to wait
is to pull the Avengers to him,
2470
02:05:35,028 --> 02:05:38,699
allowing Nebula to go find the glove.
2471
02:05:38,782 --> 02:05:40,534
MARKUS: It's sort of the beginning
of a philosophical Thanos
2472
02:05:40,617 --> 02:05:42,619
that you know from the other movie.
2473
02:05:43,036 --> 02:05:47,040
JOE: Where he lays out a new plan
which is to wipe it all out,
2474
02:05:47,916 --> 02:05:49,793
- instead of half.
-McFEELY: Right.
2475
02:05:49,876 --> 02:05:52,421
JOE: Now he's gonna go
for the full megillah
2476
02:05:53,171 --> 02:05:55,882
because memory,
2477
02:05:56,508 --> 02:06:01,012
- emotional memory is the enemy of...
-MARKUS: Progress.
2478
02:06:01,096 --> 02:06:02,139
McFEELY: It turns out...
2479
02:06:02,222 --> 02:06:04,224
JOE: Yeah, his philosophical mission.
2480
02:06:04,391 --> 02:06:05,976
McFEELY: Humans and actually, I guess,
2481
02:06:06,059 --> 02:06:09,146
the rest of the universe
won't accept his gift.
2482
02:06:09,604 --> 02:06:10,772
GAMORA: In the future...
2483
02:06:10,856 --> 02:06:12,232
MARKUS: How rude.
McFEELY: Yeah.
2484
02:06:12,315 --> 02:06:14,192
...what happens to you and me?
2485
02:06:15,152 --> 02:06:19,573
JOE: Now, remember this was a Gamora
who was ready to flee from Thanos.
2486
02:06:21,616 --> 02:06:26,413
McFEELY: Yes, I don't have much problem
with her change of heart here.
2487
02:06:26,496 --> 02:06:28,206
JOE: She's having a premonition
2488
02:06:29,916 --> 02:06:33,044
about which side of the line
she should fall on here.
2489
02:06:33,128 --> 02:06:38,633
This is all accelerating in a way that
it did not in the original timeline.
2490
02:06:40,552 --> 02:06:45,307
She's now becoming the Gamora
she was always meant to be much faster.
2491
02:06:45,474 --> 02:06:47,058
McFEELY: That's just a small nod to...
2492
02:06:47,142 --> 02:06:49,102
She knocked her hand away
about an hour ago.
2493
02:06:49,186 --> 02:06:50,645
Now she grabs it.
2494
02:06:50,812 --> 02:06:51,855
TONY: Come on, buddy, wake up!
2495
02:06:51,938 --> 02:06:53,857
- (GASPING)
- That's my man.
2496
02:06:54,024 --> 02:06:56,777
JOE: Coming up is another one
of my favorite moments
2497
02:06:56,860 --> 02:06:58,820
with these three characters
2498
02:06:59,863 --> 02:07:02,365
lined up on a cliff, overlooking Thanos.
2499
02:07:03,867 --> 02:07:04,868
You'll see.
2500
02:07:05,285 --> 02:07:09,122
JOE: It's the promise of what
was never fulfilled in Infinity War
2501
02:07:09,206 --> 02:07:11,750
because of Civil War.
2502
02:07:11,833 --> 02:07:13,627
MARKUS: Yes.
McFEELY: Right. Right.
2503
02:07:14,169 --> 02:07:17,714
JOE: Now, here these two are
standing shoulder to shoulder,
2504
02:07:17,798 --> 02:07:20,008
ready to face him together.
2505
02:07:24,888 --> 02:07:26,473
MARKUS: Philosophical Thanos.
2506
02:07:26,556 --> 02:07:28,767
JOE: And Thor's got two (BLEEP) weapons.
2507
02:07:28,850 --> 02:07:30,185
(MARKUS LAUGHS)
2508
02:07:30,268 --> 02:07:31,686
Absolutely nothing.
2509
02:07:31,978 --> 02:07:34,231
JOE: And a braided beard.
MARKUS: And a braided beard.
2510
02:07:34,314 --> 02:07:38,819
And no weight loss,
'cause I will point out, he's fixed.
2511
02:07:38,902 --> 02:07:41,112
All I know is he doesn't have 'em.
2512
02:07:41,279 --> 02:07:43,031
So, we keep it that way.
2513
02:07:43,198 --> 02:07:44,574
You know it's a trap, right?
2514
02:07:44,741 --> 02:07:46,076
Yeah.
2515
02:07:46,243 --> 02:07:47,577
I don't much care.
2516
02:07:48,328 --> 02:07:49,329
Good.
2517
02:07:50,497 --> 02:07:52,290
JOE: Favorite moment right here.
2518
02:07:53,583 --> 02:07:54,751
MARKUS: His eyes start to glow.
2519
02:07:58,839 --> 02:08:00,465
JOE: He's back, but he hasn't changed.
2520
02:08:00,549 --> 02:08:01,800
MARKUS: Exactly.
2521
02:08:03,009 --> 02:08:06,137
He's just a confident version
of who he became.
2522
02:08:07,472 --> 02:08:08,765
McFEELY: He's worthy.
2523
02:08:08,849 --> 02:08:11,518
MARKUS: And now the Old West showdown.
McFEELY: That's right.
2524
02:08:13,687 --> 02:08:15,814
Joe finally gets to do
his Sergio Leone stuff.
2525
02:08:15,897 --> 02:08:18,692
JOE: Yeah, exactly. This is our homage
to Good, the Bad and the Ugly.
2526
02:08:24,781 --> 02:08:27,534
We looked at a sequence from
Once Upon a Time in the West,
2527
02:08:27,617 --> 02:08:30,287
- remember, at the end?
-McFEELY: Yeah, Bronson and Fonda.
2528
02:08:30,370 --> 02:08:31,955
JOE: Fonda, you know?
2529
02:08:32,038 --> 02:08:34,457
And it's right before the final showdown
2530
02:08:35,250 --> 02:08:38,253
and the two of them sort of
talk about the whole movie
2531
02:08:38,336 --> 02:08:39,754
and what it means,
2532
02:08:39,838 --> 02:08:45,385
what the thematics of the movie mean
before they go out and face each other.
2533
02:08:46,136 --> 02:08:48,138
MARKUS: Very wide, those shots.
2534
02:08:48,680 --> 02:08:52,183
JOE: Yeah, the railroad is coming.
Progress is coming to the Old West.
2535
02:08:52,267 --> 02:08:53,852
They're both a dying breed.
2536
02:08:55,061 --> 02:08:57,689
Different sides of the coin, you know?
2537
02:08:59,274 --> 02:09:00,650
One is evil and one isn't.
2538
02:09:02,736 --> 02:09:06,114
And they're gonna go behind the house
2539
02:09:08,491 --> 02:09:10,619
and fight it out.
Metaphorically, always...
2540
02:09:10,702 --> 02:09:13,163
Just the metaphor of that movie
makes me tear up,
2541
02:09:13,622 --> 02:09:15,373
the moment when the score kicks in.
2542
02:09:17,626 --> 02:09:20,086
And growing up film nerds,
2543
02:09:21,004 --> 02:09:24,466
these are the moments
that we try to capture
2544
02:09:25,216 --> 02:09:27,552
and give to other people.
2545
02:09:28,094 --> 02:09:29,512
Born out of blood.
2546
02:09:29,679 --> 02:09:31,348
They'll never know it.
2547
02:09:32,557 --> 02:09:35,477
Because you won't be alive to tell them.
2548
02:09:36,770 --> 02:09:38,104
(YELLING)
2549
02:09:41,900 --> 02:09:45,320
MARKUS: I remember when this
might seem like a big battle in a movie.
2550
02:09:45,528 --> 02:09:48,198
Three superheroes beating up
one big super guy.
2551
02:09:49,282 --> 02:09:50,450
Sounds like the climax.
2552
02:09:50,533 --> 02:09:55,038
JOE: And there's a moment inspired
by comics, Hulk.
2553
02:09:55,121 --> 02:09:56,665
McFEELY: Yeah, he holds up
a mountain at some point.
2554
02:09:56,748 --> 02:09:57,749
JOE: Yeah.
2555
02:10:01,670 --> 02:10:05,298
And this is gonna be a twist
that plays out later,
2556
02:10:05,382 --> 02:10:06,883
is that Ant-Man
2557
02:10:08,301 --> 02:10:10,553
will convert himself into Giant-Man
2558
02:10:10,637 --> 02:10:13,556
in order to save those characters
who are drowning.
2559
02:10:14,933 --> 02:10:16,101
(GRUNTS)
2560
02:10:16,559 --> 02:10:17,811
(GROWLING)
2561
02:10:22,023 --> 02:10:27,237
MARKUS: Coming up on another conclusion
of an arc, in a way,
2562
02:10:28,029 --> 02:10:31,116
where Nebula gets to face her old self.
2563
02:10:35,620 --> 02:10:36,997
And sadly,
2564
02:10:38,039 --> 02:10:40,458
can't convince herself to come around.
2565
02:10:41,918 --> 02:10:44,212
JOE: And what's interesting, too,
and we haven't talked about this before,
2566
02:10:44,295 --> 02:10:47,674
is that Clint obviously
assumes the identity of Ronin
2567
02:10:47,757 --> 02:10:51,594
as a way to distance himself
from what he is doing.
2568
02:10:52,220 --> 02:10:56,266
When he is going
around the world punishing...
2569
02:10:56,349 --> 02:10:57,726
McFEELY: Meaning he could not
do that as Hawkeye?
2570
02:10:58,226 --> 02:10:59,227
JOE: Yes.
McFEELY: Yeah.
2571
02:10:59,310 --> 02:11:01,354
JOE: Right. He assumes a new identity.
2572
02:11:01,688 --> 02:11:04,733
And I would argue that
as the movie progresses,
2573
02:11:04,816 --> 02:11:09,863
that those two identities start to merge
and he's Ronin and Hawkeye.
2574
02:11:11,197 --> 02:11:12,615
- He's got the bow...
- McFEELY: I suppose.
2575
02:11:12,699 --> 02:11:15,660
He's Ronin, in that he just slashed
those Outriders in half there.
2576
02:11:15,744 --> 02:11:18,163
JOE: Yeah, and he's got the bow
and the sword now.
2577
02:11:18,246 --> 02:11:19,372
McFEELY: Yeah, fair enough.
2578
02:11:19,914 --> 02:11:22,042
JOE: So, each of these characters
have grown and they've gone...
2579
02:11:22,125 --> 02:11:24,377
Whatever journey they went on
over the course of those four years
2580
02:11:24,461 --> 02:11:25,795
has remained with them.
2581
02:11:25,879 --> 02:11:30,091
McFEELY: Right, I am interested
in Clint Barton going forward,
2582
02:11:30,592 --> 02:11:32,135
given what he has done
in the last five years.
2583
02:11:32,218 --> 02:11:34,929
JOE: It's overly complicated, yes.
McFEELY: Right.
2584
02:11:35,013 --> 02:11:38,475
That said, what we probably
ought to be addressing here is
2585
02:11:40,852 --> 02:11:45,273
one woman not seeing her future
2586
02:11:45,356 --> 02:11:47,859
or not accepting what she could be.
2587
02:11:48,068 --> 02:11:50,278
JOE: Which is something really fun
2588
02:11:50,361 --> 02:11:53,156
that you can play with,
with time travel is that
2589
02:11:54,074 --> 02:11:58,578
the two versions of herself,
when you make different choices,
2590
02:11:59,537 --> 02:12:02,791
you can go back in your life and say,
2591
02:12:02,874 --> 02:12:05,085
"So many moments,
had I made a different choice,
2592
02:12:05,168 --> 02:12:07,087
"I would have been
a completely different person."
2593
02:12:07,170 --> 02:12:09,130
MARKUS: You can only make those
due to experience
2594
02:12:09,214 --> 02:12:10,965
and if you haven't had the experience...
2595
02:12:11,049 --> 02:12:13,176
McFEELY: Those are just daughters
that had been abused by Thanos.
2596
02:12:13,259 --> 02:12:16,930
- She can't see...
- JOE: Past him, yes.
2597
02:12:17,013 --> 02:12:19,557
- It's Stockholm syndrome.
- McFEELY: That's right.
2598
02:12:21,559 --> 02:12:23,436
JOE: And here we are, setting up...
2599
02:12:23,978 --> 02:12:26,064
McFEELY: The world's
greatest moment in cinema?
2600
02:12:26,147 --> 02:12:27,398
(JOE CHUCKLES)
2601
02:12:27,941 --> 02:12:30,860
JOE: Another favorite moment.
This was fantastic.
2602
02:12:30,944 --> 02:12:32,487
When we were in the Village Theatre
2603
02:12:32,570 --> 02:12:35,281
on that Thursday night,
on opening night, this was...
2604
02:12:35,573 --> 02:12:37,158
People were jumping out of their seats.
2605
02:12:37,242 --> 02:12:39,911
And that, as a filmmaker,
there's no prouder moment
2606
02:12:39,994 --> 02:12:45,875
where you're seeing
an audience react so viscerally
2607
02:12:47,168 --> 02:12:48,378
to a story.
2608
02:12:49,671 --> 02:12:52,090
MARKUS: And there's just
so much in this movie
2609
02:12:52,173 --> 02:12:55,510
of what you've always wanted,
2610
02:12:55,593 --> 02:12:58,888
and people can call that fan service,
2611
02:12:58,972 --> 02:13:01,141
but there are so many fans
of these movies
2612
02:13:01,224 --> 02:13:03,643
that it's impossible to say that
that's a minority.
2613
02:13:04,435 --> 02:13:05,854
JOE: Well, it's storytelling.
2614
02:13:05,937 --> 02:13:10,108
These are moments that have been
set up throughout 20, 21 films.
2615
02:13:10,191 --> 02:13:11,192
They're being paid off.
2616
02:13:12,402 --> 02:13:14,696
MARKUS: And it's just
a primal satisfaction.
2617
02:13:14,779 --> 02:13:17,907
JOE: I would argue that fan service
does not have setup.
2618
02:13:18,575 --> 02:13:20,326
- All of this stuff has been set up.
- McFEELY: I get you.
2619
02:13:20,410 --> 02:13:24,747
No, if it's on the arc of a character...
2620
02:13:26,332 --> 02:13:27,750
MARKUS: You're honoring
what has come before.
2621
02:13:27,834 --> 02:13:28,835
McFEELY: That's right.
2622
02:13:29,502 --> 02:13:32,964
And maybe you call it fan service
if you don't understand that point.
2623
02:13:33,047 --> 02:13:34,299
JOE: If you haven't been
paying attention,
2624
02:13:34,382 --> 02:13:35,967
didn't have a sensitivity...
2625
02:13:36,050 --> 02:13:37,510
McFEELY: This is just
the natural conclusion.
2626
02:13:37,594 --> 02:13:40,013
JOE: ...to the storytelling
in all of the films, sure.
2627
02:13:40,096 --> 02:13:41,181
McFEELY: That's right.
2628
02:13:41,264 --> 02:13:44,225
Now, he really knows
how to use this thing. (LAUGHS)
2629
02:13:44,392 --> 02:13:46,186
MARKUS: Well, it's a hammer.
How hard could it be?
2630
02:13:46,269 --> 02:13:48,354
McFEELY: Oh, he's banging
the shield off of it.
2631
02:13:48,438 --> 02:13:49,772
MARKUS: He's driven the odd nail before.
2632
02:13:49,856 --> 02:13:53,193
JOE: We learn in Civil War that Cap
is one of the most expert fighters.
2633
02:13:53,276 --> 02:13:54,527
McFEELY: That's true.
JOE: Right?
2634
02:13:55,486 --> 02:14:00,867
When Friday tells Tony
that he can't beat Cap hand-to-hand.
2635
02:14:02,785 --> 02:14:07,665
Now we get to see what a powered-up Cap
looks like against Thanos.
2636
02:14:08,249 --> 02:14:10,376
And he almost takes him.
2637
02:14:12,754 --> 02:14:15,590
MARKUS: But you can also see
that while Vibranium
2638
02:14:15,673 --> 02:14:17,008
is the strongest substance on Earth,
2639
02:14:18,218 --> 02:14:22,430
whatever Thanos' straight razor there
is made out of is stronger.
2640
02:14:22,805 --> 02:14:25,475
JOE: Well, Thanos clearly knew of Eitri.
2641
02:14:25,892 --> 02:14:27,560
McFEELY: That's true.
MARKUS: Mmm, that's true enough.
2642
02:14:27,644 --> 02:14:30,813
McFEELY: That's true, he'd have him
make him a helicopter blade.
2643
02:14:31,773 --> 02:14:33,024
MARKUS: And now,
2644
02:14:34,734 --> 02:14:36,444
we approach,
2645
02:14:37,528 --> 02:14:41,199
possibly the biggest moment
of satisfaction in the entire movie,
2646
02:14:43,034 --> 02:14:44,744
which brings back a line
2647
02:14:45,536 --> 02:14:50,625
originally from the very first scene
of Winter Soldier.
2648
02:14:51,918 --> 02:14:53,378
JOE: And paying off.
2649
02:14:55,713 --> 02:15:01,052
What I love about this scene is
it is so reflective of what you can do
2650
02:15:02,262 --> 02:15:06,182
with serialized storytelling
in the way that Marvel is using it.
2651
02:15:06,641 --> 02:15:10,728
The grand experiment.
This here life story, timeless mosaic.
2652
02:15:11,271 --> 02:15:15,858
And these movies coming out
over certain periods of time
2653
02:15:15,942 --> 02:15:18,069
that are not so far apart
2654
02:15:18,152 --> 02:15:22,448
that you've lost an emotional connection
to what happened previously.
2655
02:15:24,367 --> 02:15:30,581
And people, fans of the movie,
being in anguish for a year
2656
02:15:31,207 --> 02:15:36,045
is what allows this moment to have
such an impact when it happens.
2657
02:15:37,297 --> 02:15:42,593
MARKUS: There are no plot turns
without emotion.
2658
02:15:43,428 --> 02:15:47,724
JOE: Two years might have dissipated it.
Six months might have not been enough.
2659
02:15:49,559 --> 02:15:53,771
And I think that it just, temporally,
the spacing of these films
2660
02:15:54,605 --> 02:15:58,151
are a huge part of how
the narrative affects you.
2661
02:15:58,234 --> 02:16:00,611
And that's why, I think,
why this as an experiment,
2662
02:16:00,695 --> 02:16:02,322
why it's so interesting.
2663
02:16:04,324 --> 02:16:06,993
- On a storytelling level.
- McFEELY: That should be my screensaver.
2664
02:16:09,662 --> 02:16:11,205
SAM: (ON SPEAKERS)
Hey, Cap, you read me?
2665
02:16:12,623 --> 02:16:14,250
MARKUS: There's also just
something wonderful
2666
02:16:14,334 --> 02:16:17,086
that Cap has always been
willing to go it alone,
2667
02:16:19,172 --> 02:16:23,217
and to find out he doesn't have to
is kind of wonderful.
2668
02:16:23,509 --> 02:16:24,927
SAM: On your left.
2669
02:16:30,767 --> 02:16:33,728
JOE: A moment of tension. Who's gonna be
the first to walk through that portal?
2670
02:16:33,811 --> 02:16:34,937
McFEELY: Also that, you know,
2671
02:16:35,021 --> 02:16:37,607
if you don't know
the visual language of the MCU,
2672
02:16:37,690 --> 02:16:41,986
maybe you don't know or understand
that that's a Doctor Strange portal.
2673
02:16:43,071 --> 02:16:46,741
JOE: But who else would you want
to have your back in this moment,
2674
02:16:46,824 --> 02:16:49,660
other than T'Challa and Wakanda?
2675
02:16:51,329 --> 02:16:52,955
MARKUS: And then Sam.
2676
02:16:53,039 --> 02:16:55,666
JOE: And just that nod, "I got you."
2677
02:16:58,503 --> 02:17:02,423
McFEELY: I think this, always meant
to be a super powerful scene,
2678
02:17:02,507 --> 02:17:06,969
didn't really come together
until Alan Silvestri's...
2679
02:17:07,053 --> 02:17:10,765
JOE: Oh, yeah, this piece of music
is incredible, and I think it could be
2680
02:17:10,848 --> 02:17:13,601
one of the greatest pieces of music
that Alan's ever composed.
2681
02:17:13,684 --> 02:17:16,938
I think his score in this film
is beyond exceptional.
2682
02:17:17,021 --> 02:17:18,981
McFEELY: I would argue it should be
considered for things.
2683
02:17:19,065 --> 02:17:21,317
JOE: I would argue the same,
2684
02:17:21,401 --> 02:17:24,612
as I don't believe that Alan
has ever won an Oscar,
2685
02:17:24,695 --> 02:17:27,198
- which would be criminal.
- MARKUS: Is somewhat ridiculous.
2686
02:17:32,870 --> 02:17:37,500
JOE: When score can achieve
a level of storytelling,
2687
02:17:37,583 --> 02:17:38,960
it is transcendent.
2688
02:17:39,836 --> 02:17:42,296
He is helping us tell the story here.
2689
02:17:42,380 --> 02:17:43,881
MARKUS: Mmm-hmm.
McFEELY: Yes.
2690
02:17:46,134 --> 02:17:49,470
JOE: And he's connecting
so many different things all at once,
2691
02:17:49,554 --> 02:17:51,055
it's staggering what he's doing.
2692
02:17:51,139 --> 02:17:55,268
Only someone of Alan's skill
could have pulled this off,
2693
02:17:55,351 --> 02:17:56,853
and there are, I would argue,
2694
02:17:56,936 --> 02:18:02,150
maybe one other film composer
on the planet at Alan's skill level.
2695
02:18:08,197 --> 02:18:10,158
(ALL SHOUTING IN UNISON)
2696
02:18:13,828 --> 02:18:16,789
JOE: So, this was always intended
to be what it is,
2697
02:18:16,873 --> 02:18:21,210
which was an incredibly rousing moment
where the reinforcements arrive
2698
02:18:21,294 --> 02:18:23,254
to go toe-to-toe.
2699
02:18:23,337 --> 02:18:26,215
MARKUS: And you finally get to hear it.
McFEELY: That's right.
2700
02:18:26,299 --> 02:18:27,884
JOE: Twenty-two films.
2701
02:18:29,177 --> 02:18:31,888
McFEELY: Was it your idea
to go under with that or Evans'?
2702
02:18:31,971 --> 02:18:35,516
JOE: Eh, it was ours. It felt like
it would be more interesting.
2703
02:18:35,600 --> 02:18:37,477
McFEELY: It is more interesting.
2704
02:18:37,560 --> 02:18:42,398
JOE: Unfortunately, him catching
the hammer for the second time
2705
02:18:42,482 --> 02:18:44,108
created a lot of energy in the theater,
2706
02:18:44,192 --> 02:18:47,945
and I don't know that people
that first weekend actually heard it.
2707
02:18:48,029 --> 02:18:49,363
McFEELY: That's fair enough.
2708
02:18:49,447 --> 02:18:51,824
JOE: But this is why you can go back
and see it again.
2709
02:18:51,908 --> 02:18:53,493
McFEELY: Yeah.
MARKUS: Exactly.
2710
02:18:55,495 --> 02:18:58,456
JOE: A lot of information in the movie,
and you can discover it...
2711
02:18:58,539 --> 02:19:01,334
McFEELY: Yeah, it's overwhelming
when you first watch it.
2712
02:19:01,417 --> 02:19:04,212
That's part of the reason
it's getting a lot of repeat business.
2713
02:19:04,295 --> 02:19:07,089
MARKUS: But, again,
it's one of the joys of...
2714
02:19:07,173 --> 02:19:10,009
You know, this is the kind of thing
we've referred to in the past
2715
02:19:10,092 --> 02:19:11,677
as a splash panel from the comics.
2716
02:19:11,761 --> 02:19:14,972
And those things
you can't take in all at once.
2717
02:19:15,097 --> 02:19:17,850
You have to sit with it for a little
while and find your characters.
2718
02:19:17,934 --> 02:19:20,478
JOE: Another reason it's getting
a lot of repeat business is...
2719
02:19:21,854 --> 02:19:24,315
Tony and Pepper.
2720
02:19:24,398 --> 02:19:26,901
Scott Lang punching
a Leviathan in the face.
2721
02:19:27,318 --> 02:19:28,819
...give me that.
You have the little one.
2722
02:19:31,280 --> 02:19:35,785
JOE: A callback to Infinity War
between Cap and Thor on the battlefield.
2723
02:19:36,911 --> 02:19:39,872
That relationship the two of them have.
2724
02:19:39,956 --> 02:19:45,378
And another signal that Thor
is on the road to repair
2725
02:19:45,461 --> 02:19:49,799
is that he is not threatened
by Cap's worthiness.
2726
02:19:49,882 --> 02:19:52,301
MARKUS: And the look
on Tony's face here as he...
2727
02:19:52,385 --> 02:19:55,638
McFEELY: Yeah,
this gets a big moment of cheer.
2728
02:19:55,721 --> 02:19:57,765
Well, there's so much going on here.
2729
02:19:57,848 --> 02:20:01,227
He gets back the kid that he lost.
He never hugged that kid before.
2730
02:20:01,310 --> 02:20:04,438
There's actually a great joke
in the beginning of Spider-Man. (LAUGHS)
2731
02:20:04,522 --> 02:20:06,732
JOE: Only Robert Downey.
McFEELY: Yeah.
2732
02:20:09,652 --> 02:20:12,738
Again, this was a section
called "team-ups and reunions,"
2733
02:20:12,822 --> 02:20:14,865
and we certainly could do this all day.
2734
02:20:14,949 --> 02:20:20,204
All sorts of people deserve the chance
to hug and rediscover each other.
2735
02:20:20,288 --> 02:20:23,207
Or just new team-ups of characters
from different franchises,
2736
02:20:23,291 --> 02:20:25,876
but not a lot of time for it all.
2737
02:20:25,960 --> 02:20:30,506
So, we concentrated on the ones
that were most important to story.
2738
02:20:33,634 --> 02:20:35,720
MARKUS: Or just so purely delightful
2739
02:20:35,803 --> 02:20:37,930
that you couldn't possibly
not have them,
2740
02:20:38,014 --> 02:20:39,557
such as...
2741
02:20:40,558 --> 02:20:46,606
JOE: A Gamora with no interest
in Peter Quill,
2742
02:20:47,064 --> 02:20:50,192
no memory of any interest
in Peter Quill.
2743
02:20:51,235 --> 02:20:53,070
You missed the first time.
2744
02:20:53,237 --> 02:20:55,239
Then you got 'em both the second time.
2745
02:20:57,241 --> 02:20:58,326
GAMORA: This is the one?
2746
02:20:58,492 --> 02:20:59,493
Seriously?
2747
02:20:59,660 --> 02:21:01,662
Your choices were him or a tree.
2748
02:21:04,165 --> 02:21:08,669
McFEELY: Now we're back on A-plot,
the stones reappear on the field.
2749
02:21:09,253 --> 02:21:11,088
What are we going to do with them?
2750
02:21:11,172 --> 02:21:13,549
MARKUS: Thanos wants them.
Where do they go?
2751
02:21:13,633 --> 02:21:15,468
JOE: By the way, not to digress...
2752
02:21:16,761 --> 02:21:19,722
But I was just thinking it would be
interesting if she chose the tree
2753
02:21:19,805 --> 02:21:21,474
in Guardians 3.
2754
02:21:21,557 --> 02:21:24,560
McFEELY: Well, sure.
We've given James a lot to work with.
2755
02:21:25,144 --> 02:21:27,188
JOE: So, Hulk reminds us there
2756
02:21:27,271 --> 02:21:28,939
that these stones
have gotta go back to the past.
2757
02:21:29,982 --> 02:21:31,859
Right? How are we gonna
get them back to the past?
2758
02:21:33,110 --> 02:21:36,155
Oh, yeah, we've got a van
with a time machine in it.
2759
02:21:38,240 --> 02:21:40,159
Anyone see an ugly brown van out there?
2760
02:21:40,701 --> 02:21:43,788
Yes! But you're not gonna like
where it's parked!
2761
02:21:43,954 --> 02:21:46,082
Scott, how long you need
to get that thing working?
2762
02:21:46,457 --> 02:21:49,085
JOE: And this is just the gentlest
reunion for these two characters.
2763
02:21:49,168 --> 02:21:50,670
McFEELY: Yeah, that's the thing,
they don't get much
2764
02:21:50,753 --> 02:21:53,422
even though he's a driving force
in the story.
2765
02:21:53,506 --> 02:21:55,633
JOE: Now and again.
2766
02:21:57,009 --> 02:22:01,013
If there's another Ant-Man movie,
there's some stuff to play there.
2767
02:22:01,597 --> 02:22:04,934
Now, we have to remind you
2768
02:22:05,059 --> 02:22:09,772
that this seemed to be something
that was completely premeditated,
2769
02:22:10,731 --> 02:22:14,610
and that there's a plan here in play
from Doctor Strange
2770
02:22:15,611 --> 02:22:18,239
that started in Infinity War.
2771
02:22:19,073 --> 02:22:25,788
And it was a very risky plan that
involved the death of half the universe.
2772
02:22:27,665 --> 02:22:29,709
MARKUS: Temporary.
2773
02:22:30,793 --> 02:22:32,211
I have to hot-wire it.
2774
02:22:35,297 --> 02:22:36,507
Where's Nebula?
2775
02:22:37,967 --> 02:22:40,803
JOE: If you remember in Civil War,
2776
02:22:42,638 --> 02:22:44,849
Clint introduces himself.
2777
02:22:44,932 --> 02:22:47,268
McFEELY: Right. This is very subtle,
but yes. (LAUGHS)
2778
02:22:47,351 --> 02:22:49,395
JOE: T'Challa says, "I don't care."
2779
02:22:49,979 --> 02:22:52,606
And now he says, "Clint, give it to me."
2780
02:22:53,023 --> 02:22:55,985
McFEELY: So, this is a section
we refer to as the "flea flicker,"
2781
02:22:56,068 --> 02:23:01,699
which is a chance for several characters
to carry the load of the Gauntlet,
2782
02:23:01,782 --> 02:23:03,325
trying to get it towards the van,
2783
02:23:03,409 --> 02:23:05,661
and to be assisted along the way
by other characters,
2784
02:23:05,745 --> 02:23:10,458
sort of a unifying idea
to get a lot of teamwork.
2785
02:23:10,541 --> 02:23:13,753
And in early drafts and concept art...
2786
02:23:15,796 --> 02:23:19,425
MARKUS: Everybody and your mother
carried the Infinity Gauntlet.
2787
02:23:19,508 --> 02:23:23,846
McFEELY: And now it sort of got down
to a meaningful four
2788
02:23:23,929 --> 02:23:27,558
with various side events like this,
2789
02:23:27,641 --> 02:23:30,186
- where Scarlet Witch gets to...
- JOE: Gets her revenge.
2790
02:23:30,269 --> 02:23:31,645
McFEELY: Get her revenge, yeah.
2791
02:23:35,399 --> 02:23:38,360
She's really the biggest threat
to Thanos on this field.
2792
02:23:38,486 --> 02:23:41,363
JOE: She is,
she's a very powerful character.
2793
02:23:43,032 --> 02:23:46,118
And he has to, in a way, cheat
and sacrifice his own armies
2794
02:23:46,202 --> 02:23:47,453
just to escape her.
2795
02:23:50,539 --> 02:23:52,082
Instant Kill.
2796
02:23:56,420 --> 02:23:57,630
(GRUNTS)
2797
02:24:02,176 --> 02:24:07,598
Wanda's powers have a lot to do
with her internal life.
2798
02:24:10,351 --> 02:24:12,311
And there's a growth to the powers
2799
02:24:12,394 --> 02:24:14,396
based on the growth of her internal life
2800
02:24:14,855 --> 02:24:17,691
and her ability to harness them,
2801
02:24:18,943 --> 02:24:21,987
and the emotion and the pain
caused by Vision's death
2802
02:24:22,071 --> 02:24:25,282
has accelerated that growth of power.
2803
02:24:25,366 --> 02:24:28,661
And now here Thanos is destroying
everyone on the battlefield,
2804
02:24:28,744 --> 02:24:30,412
including his own armies,
just to escape.
2805
02:24:34,667 --> 02:24:38,712
McFEELY: These action set pieces are
all about sort of action and reaction,
2806
02:24:38,796 --> 02:24:41,507
logical choices by characters.
2807
02:24:42,383 --> 02:24:47,012
Takes a long time to make sure
that they seem seamless,
2808
02:24:47,096 --> 02:24:49,557
but it's a lot of work
by a lot of people.
2809
02:24:50,099 --> 02:24:54,019
MARKUS: Gradually
making order out of chaos.
2810
02:24:54,854 --> 02:24:59,316
JOE: The intention of this sequence
2811
02:24:59,400 --> 02:25:02,736
is to put them against the ropes
2812
02:25:05,823 --> 02:25:09,827
and make you believe
that they're done for
2813
02:25:09,910 --> 02:25:12,371
unless something dramatic
were to happen.
2814
02:25:13,497 --> 02:25:16,834
And it's a technique
that we have used before,
2815
02:25:17,209 --> 02:25:21,797
the dramatic entrance
or return of a hero
2816
02:25:21,881 --> 02:25:24,925
who can change the course of the battle.
2817
02:25:25,676 --> 02:25:29,513
In Infinity War, it was Thor in Wakanda.
2818
02:25:30,389 --> 02:25:34,894
And here it is none other
than Captain Marvel.
2819
02:25:37,313 --> 02:25:38,439
(YELPS)
2820
02:25:42,276 --> 02:25:43,277
(GRUNTS)
2821
02:25:43,611 --> 02:25:44,778
(GROOT GRUNTS)
2822
02:25:45,446 --> 02:25:46,947
(ROCKET YELLING)
2823
02:25:47,197 --> 02:25:50,200
JOE: We did this through Rocket's POV
2824
02:25:50,910 --> 02:25:54,496
'cause the two of them have a little bit
of a history that involves
2825
02:25:55,789 --> 02:25:56,999
a haircut insult.
2826
02:25:57,082 --> 02:25:58,417
McFEELY: He knows a little ahead of time
2827
02:25:58,500 --> 02:26:00,294
- who this is gonna be.
- JOE: Mmm-hmm.
2828
02:26:00,920 --> 02:26:02,004
Friday, what are they firing at?
2829
02:26:02,171 --> 02:26:04,048
FRIDAY: Something just entered
the upper atmosphere.
2830
02:26:06,342 --> 02:26:08,427
JOE: And we know
that she has the ability
2831
02:26:08,510 --> 02:26:10,721
to fly through ships and destroy them.
2832
02:26:11,430 --> 02:26:14,683
We saw it in the climax
of her own movie.
2833
02:26:17,311 --> 02:26:19,480
Oh, yeah!
2834
02:26:28,447 --> 02:26:30,616
MARKUS: This is, of course,
very sad for Thanos,
2835
02:26:30,699 --> 02:26:32,034
'cause that's not just his ship,
2836
02:26:32,117 --> 02:26:34,912
- that's his home. Poor guy.
- McFEELY: "You sank my battleship."
2837
02:26:35,412 --> 02:26:36,914
MARKUS: All his stuff was on there.
2838
02:26:36,997 --> 02:26:38,415
JOE: And again, we have to...
2839
02:26:38,499 --> 02:26:42,461
I have to really give kudos
to our VFX team.
2840
02:26:42,878 --> 02:26:44,630
McFEELY: Yeah,
there's a lot going on here.
2841
02:26:44,713 --> 02:26:48,175
JOE: Six thousand shots
between Infinity War and Endgame
2842
02:26:48,300 --> 02:26:52,805
with groundbreaking VFX.
I mean, just stunning work.
2843
02:26:53,180 --> 02:26:55,474
MARKUS: And at no point
do you go like...
2844
02:26:56,475 --> 02:26:59,687
You're never taken out.
You never go, "This isn't real."
2845
02:26:59,770 --> 02:27:03,399
This entire thing is real.
2846
02:27:06,735 --> 02:27:11,115
And this was just a chance to, you know,
2847
02:27:11,198 --> 02:27:15,494
show off another amazing aspect
of the Marvel roster.
2848
02:27:15,577 --> 02:27:20,958
And there are just so many
great female characters
2849
02:27:21,041 --> 02:27:27,006
that we just wanted to have the fun
of putting them all together for once.
2850
02:27:33,220 --> 02:27:35,556
And it's much like Cap
catching the hammer,
2851
02:27:35,639 --> 02:27:39,435
it's one of those moments
that just sort of gets you viscerally.
2852
02:27:55,117 --> 02:27:59,872
JOE: Now, we're teasing the showdown
that many people are anticipating,
2853
02:27:59,955 --> 02:28:01,790
Marvel versus Thanos.
2854
02:28:05,377 --> 02:28:08,881
He makes a desperate move,
destroys the time machine.
2855
02:28:09,923 --> 02:28:11,884
Now, what recourse do the heroes have?
2856
02:28:11,967 --> 02:28:13,260
McFEELY: This was always the idea,
2857
02:28:13,343 --> 02:28:15,846
that there was going to be a scrum
for the Gauntlet at the end.
2858
02:28:17,723 --> 02:28:19,683
MARKUS: Because we knew
where we wanted to get with Tony,
2859
02:28:19,767 --> 02:28:23,896
and we knew there could not be
another option left on the field
2860
02:28:23,979 --> 02:28:25,272
in order to get there.
2861
02:28:25,355 --> 02:28:27,149
JOE: And if he gets this, remember,
2862
02:28:27,232 --> 02:28:28,984
it's the end of the universe
as we know it.
2863
02:28:30,319 --> 02:28:31,487
McFEELY: Right.
2864
02:28:32,738 --> 02:28:34,656
He's gonna start over.
2865
02:28:34,823 --> 02:28:38,702
JOE: I love this moment where Cap
and Thor are teaming up
2866
02:28:38,786 --> 02:28:41,371
to try to put that axe
into Thanos' throat.
2867
02:28:42,372 --> 02:28:43,999
McFEELY: Oh, savage.
2868
02:28:45,793 --> 02:28:48,295
JOE: And then here she comes.
2869
02:28:52,716 --> 02:28:56,595
I mean, that's part of who Thanos is.
2870
02:28:56,720 --> 02:29:00,349
He is this sort of gladiator fighter,
he's a savage.
2871
02:29:01,391 --> 02:29:03,519
He's gone through the universe
2872
02:29:03,602 --> 02:29:09,274
murdering the best heroes
of every planet for a thousand years.
2873
02:29:09,358 --> 02:29:12,736
And then he runs into Captain Marvel.
2874
02:29:17,116 --> 02:29:19,201
(YELLS, GRUNTS)
2875
02:29:19,701 --> 02:29:22,454
You get to see a little bit
of his true colors in this act.
2876
02:29:22,538 --> 02:29:24,206
- He cheats twice.
- McFEELY: Right.
2877
02:29:26,208 --> 02:29:27,751
JOE: Turns the guns on his own troops.
2878
02:29:28,919 --> 02:29:31,922
- And in a moment...
- McFEELY: Sort of grows more noble...
2879
02:29:32,005 --> 02:29:35,634
- He's more noble in Infinity War.
- JOE: As a philosopher, yes.
2880
02:29:36,426 --> 02:29:40,097
MARKUS: But here we have Tony realizing
what needs to happen.
2881
02:29:41,014 --> 02:29:45,060
JOE: So, the setup from
the end of Infinity War,
2882
02:29:45,144 --> 02:29:47,980
where he couldn't understand
what the hell Strange was doing...
2883
02:29:48,063 --> 02:29:49,439
McFEELY: "Tony, it was the only way."
2884
02:29:49,523 --> 02:29:51,859
JOE: And blames Strange
forgiving away the universe,
2885
02:29:53,819 --> 02:29:58,782
he now understands it all,
that it was always meant to be him.
2886
02:30:00,868 --> 02:30:02,536
And nanotech.
2887
02:30:02,619 --> 02:30:05,164
McFEELY: That's right.
If it's unclear how he got them,
2888
02:30:05,956 --> 02:30:09,710
it's two similar gloves talking
to each other in this nanotech-y way.
2889
02:30:11,044 --> 02:30:12,588
(WHIRRING)
2890
02:30:13,714 --> 02:30:16,967
JOE: And his suit
is keeping him alive here.
2891
02:30:17,259 --> 02:30:19,011
McFEELY: Well, as the power's
coursing through him,
2892
02:30:19,094 --> 02:30:20,846
he doesn't have a lot of time.
2893
02:30:20,929 --> 02:30:23,974
JOE: But when he snaps those fingers,
it's too much.
2894
02:30:29,188 --> 02:30:35,235
That was a late addition
and the last shot of the entire film.
2895
02:30:36,945 --> 02:30:39,364
In reshoots, "I am Iron Man,"
2896
02:30:39,448 --> 02:30:45,120
it's the very last shot that we did
in January of '19,
2897
02:30:45,746 --> 02:30:48,832
on a sound stage at Raleigh Studios,
2898
02:30:48,916 --> 02:30:52,669
adjacent to the sound stage
where Robert Downey originally tested...
2899
02:30:52,753 --> 02:30:54,504
McFEELY: That's right, it was
Raleigh Studios where he tested...
2900
02:30:54,588 --> 02:30:57,216
JOE: For Iron Man, 12 years before.
McFEELY: That's right.
2901
02:30:59,009 --> 02:31:02,638
JOE: So, talk about symmetry
2902
02:31:04,181 --> 02:31:06,350
and things coming full circle.
2903
02:31:07,017 --> 02:31:10,520
So, it was a very emotional moment
for Robert, for all of us.
2904
02:31:18,445 --> 02:31:22,658
Now, what we wanted to do here
was draw out your expectation
2905
02:31:22,741 --> 02:31:26,912
about whether or not
Thanos was actually going to go.
2906
02:31:26,995 --> 02:31:32,709
And this is a replication of his moment
from the end of the last film.
2907
02:31:32,793 --> 02:31:35,587
MARKUS: Mmm-hmm.
McFEELY: You mean, sitting on his porch?
2908
02:31:35,671 --> 02:31:36,964
JOE: Exactly.
2909
02:31:38,799 --> 02:31:43,887
He walks over to a stone and sits,
and has a very different reaction.
2910
02:31:46,181 --> 02:31:48,016
To defeat.
2911
02:31:48,183 --> 02:31:50,060
MARKUS: "Mr. Stark,
I don't feel so good."
2912
02:31:52,521 --> 02:31:55,691
JOE: Again, we draw it out considerably.
2913
02:31:59,361 --> 02:32:03,865
Now, you've forgotten Tony
until this moment.
2914
02:32:08,036 --> 02:32:13,709
This probably took the most
conversation and thought,
2915
02:32:14,418 --> 02:32:17,504
was what he would look like
in this moment.
2916
02:32:19,339 --> 02:32:21,091
McFEELY: It's got to be a by-degrees,
though, right?
2917
02:32:21,174 --> 02:32:22,926
You knew that he was gonna look
pretty messed up
2918
02:32:23,010 --> 02:32:25,846
- towards the end of the story.
- JOE: For sure.
2919
02:32:25,929 --> 02:32:29,433
But look, his face is half destroyed.
2920
02:32:29,516 --> 02:32:33,020
It makes it an exceedingly tragic death.
2921
02:32:33,603 --> 02:32:35,397
McFEELY: If it's too far,
you can't look at it.
2922
02:32:35,480 --> 02:32:37,232
JOE: Yes, too far, you can't look at it.
2923
02:32:37,316 --> 02:32:39,067
If it's not enough,
then you don't feel it.
2924
02:32:39,151 --> 02:32:40,277
McFEELY: You don't know why
he's dying, right.
2925
02:32:40,360 --> 02:32:43,322
JOE: You should feel it
before Peter Parker feels it,
2926
02:32:43,405 --> 02:32:46,658
so that you're having the same reaction
he's having when you're looking at Tony.
2927
02:32:46,742 --> 02:32:50,412
You go, "I don't think
he's coming back from this."
2928
02:32:51,997 --> 02:32:56,043
McFEELY: And certainly we scripted a lot
of emotion and emoting and dialogue
2929
02:32:56,126 --> 02:32:58,337
for him saying goodbye,
and people saying goodbye to him,
2930
02:32:58,420 --> 02:33:02,132
but Robert was pretty adamant about...
2931
02:33:02,215 --> 02:33:08,597
The guy who had an answer
for everything, you know, is done.
2932
02:33:09,765 --> 02:33:12,559
JOE: Well, he's incapacitated.
It's just truthful.
2933
02:33:13,852 --> 02:33:15,562
Again, here's Gwyneth.
2934
02:33:17,105 --> 02:33:19,649
A phenomenal performance, restraint.
2935
02:33:21,234 --> 02:33:23,403
Opposite her husband who's dying,
2936
02:33:23,487 --> 02:33:26,740
and trying to give him peace
in his dying moment
2937
02:33:27,866 --> 02:33:29,659
by showing strength.
2938
02:33:31,036 --> 02:33:33,747
And telling him that
they're gonna be okay.
2939
02:33:33,830 --> 02:33:37,125
And giving him permission to rest,
2940
02:33:37,626 --> 02:33:40,504
which is the thing
that he could never do.
2941
02:33:44,299 --> 02:33:48,804
And she doesn't display any emotion
until he's gone and he can't see it.
2942
02:33:53,517 --> 02:33:55,894
It's a fantastic performance.
2943
02:34:00,732 --> 02:34:03,652
I think the first time
that we cut this together,
2944
02:34:03,735 --> 02:34:05,862
- everybody in the edit room cried.
- (McFEELY CHUCKLES)
2945
02:34:06,822 --> 02:34:10,283
MARKUS: I can't think
of another moment like it,
2946
02:34:10,367 --> 02:34:13,870
where a character that beloved
2947
02:34:14,621 --> 02:34:18,500
- has such a...
- JOE: Complicated ending.
2948
02:34:19,251 --> 02:34:26,049
MARKUS: But also just an honest onscreen
death that's a real human death.
2949
02:34:30,470 --> 02:34:32,722
JOE: It plays out like a war film.
2950
02:34:34,266 --> 02:34:36,059
There's no punches pulled in it.
2951
02:34:36,143 --> 02:34:37,686
And again, that's the line
we were walking,
2952
02:34:39,062 --> 02:34:41,273
with the damage done to him was...
2953
02:34:41,356 --> 02:34:46,820
How do you feel watching that?
It should be painful.
2954
02:34:54,327 --> 02:34:56,830
MARKUS: This kid's got a future
in pictures, I'm telling you.
2955
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:05,797
Once again, the kids you saw dusted
at the very beginning of the movie
2956
02:35:05,881 --> 02:35:07,466
now returned.
2957
02:35:08,383 --> 02:35:12,012
JOE: And as you'll discover
in Far from Home,
2958
02:35:13,388 --> 02:35:17,559
Ned has just come back,
Peter's just come back.
2959
02:35:18,351 --> 02:35:21,438
They're back at school
where they're going to find that
2960
02:35:21,521 --> 02:35:23,440
quite a few of their classmates
have moved on.
2961
02:35:23,523 --> 02:35:25,233
MARKUS: Back at school
where everyone's a stranger.
2962
02:35:29,905 --> 02:35:35,202
And here you begin to hear
Tony Stark deliver his own eulogy,
2963
02:35:35,285 --> 02:35:40,165
which is something we always wanted
from the first draft,
2964
02:35:40,248 --> 02:35:43,919
of how do we bring back the spirit
2965
02:35:44,002 --> 02:35:47,130
and the lightheartedness
2966
02:35:47,214 --> 02:35:49,090
that Tony always brought to these movies
2967
02:35:49,174 --> 02:35:52,344
while not betraying the fact
that he is, in fact, gone?
2968
02:35:56,264 --> 02:36:00,977
And Tony Stark,
a man of that substantial ego,
2969
02:36:01,520 --> 02:36:04,773
despite the fact that he just
sacrificed himself to save the universe,
2970
02:36:04,856 --> 02:36:06,983
he'd find a way
to deliver his own eulogy.
2971
02:36:09,819 --> 02:36:15,367
JOE: Clearly, the technologist
and the futurist
2972
02:36:15,909 --> 02:36:19,913
knows enough that
before he goes on a time travel mission,
2973
02:36:20,747 --> 02:36:24,376
he ought to leave a message
to his wife and daughter,
2974
02:36:24,459 --> 02:36:30,048
in case the slim odds
did not lean in their favor.
2975
02:36:31,091 --> 02:36:34,344
TONY: Not that death at any time
isn't untimely.
2976
02:36:35,554 --> 02:36:38,598
This time travel thing that we're
gonna try and pull off tomorrow...
2977
02:36:38,765 --> 02:36:40,976
it's got me scratching my head
about the survivability of it all.
2978
02:36:41,434 --> 02:36:43,478
JOE: I think, also,
this is another late addition.
2979
02:36:43,562 --> 02:36:47,691
We only came up with the idea
for the "I love you 3,000"
2980
02:36:47,774 --> 02:36:50,860
at the end of the movie in post.
2981
02:36:50,944 --> 02:36:53,989
McFEELY: Well, you can see...
JOE: This is an ADR. line,
2982
02:36:54,072 --> 02:36:56,199
which is why it's delivered off-camera,
2983
02:36:56,283 --> 02:36:59,077
'cause we never would have
made that choice had we shot it.
2984
02:37:03,331 --> 02:37:04,416
(GASPS SOFTLY)
2985
02:37:05,250 --> 02:37:11,381
MARKUS: And now possibly
the most complicated scheduling shot
2986
02:37:11,464 --> 02:37:13,258
in the history of cinema.
2987
02:37:16,011 --> 02:37:18,680
McFEELY: You could be forgiven
for thinking that
2988
02:37:18,763 --> 02:37:21,433
this big funeral shot
is stitched together.
2989
02:37:22,434 --> 02:37:27,355
But this is all one take.
How many did you shoot? Five, six takes?
2990
02:37:27,981 --> 02:37:29,649
JOE: I think we rehearsed it
for the entire day
2991
02:37:29,733 --> 02:37:31,943
before it was shot with stand-ins,
2992
02:37:32,027 --> 02:37:34,988
so we were really prepared
when we got all of them out there,
2993
02:37:35,071 --> 02:37:37,532
because we wanted to do this
in the correct light.
2994
02:37:37,616 --> 02:37:40,493
And, yeah, we got
five or six takes in, I think.
2995
02:37:41,995 --> 02:37:45,457
If you look at everyone's reaction,
2996
02:37:45,540 --> 02:37:48,335
it really signals
who they are as a character
2997
02:37:48,418 --> 02:37:51,046
- and how they felt about Tony.
- McFEELY: Mmm-hmm.
2998
02:37:51,129 --> 02:37:52,547
MARKUS: Mmm-hmm.
2999
02:37:52,631 --> 02:37:56,301
JOE: I love how stoic Benedict is.
3000
02:37:58,345 --> 02:38:01,640
He knew that Stark had to be sacrificed.
3001
02:38:02,515 --> 02:38:04,976
What other reaction
could he possibly have here?
3002
02:38:05,060 --> 02:38:07,729
McFEELY: I think you go back
to Infinity War,
3003
02:38:07,854 --> 02:38:12,567
when Tony asks, "How many do we win?"
and he says, "One,"
3004
02:38:13,151 --> 02:38:16,237
that's a pregnant beat. He knows exactly
what's happening in that moment.
3005
02:38:20,450 --> 02:38:22,744
JOE: In my memory of comic books,
all funerals,
3006
02:38:23,244 --> 02:38:25,872
you always saw,
when a major character died,
3007
02:38:25,955 --> 02:38:31,294
all the other heroes collected
at their graveside.
3008
02:38:31,378 --> 02:38:36,591
And this is really an homage
to that concept.
3009
02:38:41,012 --> 02:38:45,809
Why we wanted to do it in a oner
was for that reason, you're sort of...
3010
02:38:45,892 --> 02:38:51,272
The camera is winding you through
the history of the Marvel Universe
3011
02:38:51,356 --> 02:38:53,024
through each franchise.
3012
02:38:53,858 --> 02:38:57,654
- All the way back to the man who...
- McFEELY: It's a bit of a flex.
3013
02:38:57,737 --> 02:39:01,074
- (McFEELY CHUCKLES)
- JOE: Started the Avengers.
3014
02:39:01,783 --> 02:39:03,785
Nick Fury.
3015
02:39:08,498 --> 02:39:11,710
And two characters
who have lost people very close to them.
3016
02:39:15,213 --> 02:39:17,674
Now, people have asked
3017
02:39:17,757 --> 02:39:24,389
why Natasha didn't get the same amount
of screen time post-death as Tony did.
3018
02:39:24,472 --> 02:39:29,561
- Well, Tony does not have another movie.
- McFEELY: True.
3019
02:39:29,644 --> 02:39:31,646
JOE: Tony is done.
3020
02:39:32,397 --> 02:39:35,400
And Natasha has another film.
3021
02:39:35,859 --> 02:39:40,739
And Marvel Universe obviously does not
have to move forward linearly anymore.
3022
02:39:41,072 --> 02:39:46,453
But that character still has
more screen time coming.
3023
02:39:47,871 --> 02:39:48,955
HAPPY: How you doing, squirt?
3024
02:39:49,122 --> 02:39:50,123
Good.
3025
02:39:50,915 --> 02:39:52,917
MARKUS: Given the number of movies
he's directed,
3026
02:39:53,001 --> 02:39:56,588
you forget Jon Favreau's
a pretty great actor.
3027
02:39:56,671 --> 02:39:58,965
JOE: And the man who started it all,
3028
02:39:59,048 --> 02:40:01,342
you know, standing
on the shoulders of giants.
3029
02:40:01,426 --> 02:40:05,722
So, another unique aspect
of the narrative experiment,
3030
02:40:05,805 --> 02:40:08,516
Marvel Universe's.
3031
02:40:08,600 --> 02:40:11,561
A bunch of artists
working together in concert
3032
02:40:11,644 --> 02:40:13,938
and handing the baton off
from one to the next,
3033
02:40:14,022 --> 02:40:17,275
and everyone bringing
their own spin to it
3034
02:40:17,358 --> 02:40:20,570
and their own thoughts
and emotions to it.
3035
02:40:23,072 --> 02:40:29,579
The poetry of having Jon sitting there
with Tony's daughter is really special.
3036
02:40:30,497 --> 02:40:33,541
Just as a filmmaker, you know.
3037
02:40:33,625 --> 02:40:37,629
It feels like a thank you from us,
a love letter from us to Jon.
3038
02:40:39,714 --> 02:40:45,178
MARKUS: And here we have Thor
resolving his last issue.
3039
02:40:45,637 --> 02:40:47,639
McFEELY: It's an epic movie.
There's a lot going on,
3040
02:40:47,722 --> 02:40:51,059
so you're gonna have
a few different endings.
3041
02:40:51,476 --> 02:40:55,522
JOE: And the way that the tone shifts,
3042
02:40:55,605 --> 02:40:58,733
40 minutes into the movie
3043
02:40:59,943 --> 02:41:03,905
from sadness to humor,
3044
02:41:03,988 --> 02:41:09,619
we're once again shifting you
out of the sadness around Tony's death
3045
02:41:09,744 --> 02:41:14,040
and back into these characters.
3046
02:41:16,167 --> 02:41:19,796
And the fun of their relationships.
3047
02:41:19,879 --> 02:41:20,880
MARKUS: Mmm-hmm.
3048
02:41:21,548 --> 02:41:24,509
I love how clear-eyed Thor here is.
3049
02:41:24,884 --> 02:41:31,099
He's still a little sloppy,
but he's got the eyes of a hero again.
3050
02:41:31,391 --> 02:41:32,809
I do have a ride though.
3051
02:41:34,519 --> 02:41:38,147
MARKUS: And then this,
which is just pure joy.
3052
02:41:38,857 --> 02:41:41,109
McFEELY: It's hard to predict
chemistry, really.
3053
02:41:41,693 --> 02:41:43,695
JOE: Now, notice he was
searching for Gamora.
3054
02:41:43,778 --> 02:41:46,573
He does not know where she is.
3055
02:41:46,656 --> 02:41:48,700
McFEELY: She's certainly
a thread that's still out there.
3056
02:41:48,783 --> 02:41:51,035
JOE: And the audience
does not know where she is.
3057
02:41:51,286 --> 02:41:53,162
Where to first?
3058
02:41:54,581 --> 02:41:58,293
JOE: It's an intentionally vague ending
for the character.
3059
02:42:01,546 --> 02:42:07,468
I could certainly watch an entire movie
or two with all of these guys.
3060
02:42:07,594 --> 02:42:09,137
...you say, "Of course,"
but then you touch the map.
3061
02:42:09,220 --> 02:42:11,723
It makes you think that maybe
you didn't realize I was in charge.
3062
02:42:12,348 --> 02:42:13,683
Quail, that's your own
insecurities in there.
3063
02:42:13,850 --> 02:42:14,851
Quail?
3064
02:42:15,018 --> 02:42:17,270
Okay? I am merely trying to be
of service and assisting.
3065
02:42:17,437 --> 02:42:18,646
Quill.
3066
02:42:18,730 --> 02:42:19,731
That's what I said.
3067
02:42:21,024 --> 02:42:24,903
JOE: I think back to Thor,
the original film.
3068
02:42:24,986 --> 02:42:27,822
McFEELY: Yeah, he's come a long way.
JOE: The character's come a long way.
3069
02:42:28,197 --> 02:42:30,617
And Hemsworth has come a long way.
3070
02:42:30,700 --> 02:42:34,120
He's made very brave choices
along the way,
3071
02:42:34,203 --> 02:42:36,414
like some of the bravest choices
of anyone.
3072
02:42:36,497 --> 02:42:41,920
McFEELY: Well, I think the trilogy
of Ragnarok, Infinity War, and Endgame
3073
02:42:44,088 --> 02:42:47,425
(CHUCKLES) marked a real turning point
for him as an actor,
3074
02:42:47,508 --> 02:42:49,260
and for Thor as a character.
3075
02:42:51,471 --> 02:42:56,225
JOE: And Hemsworth, that son of a bitch,
won the genetic lottery.
3076
02:42:56,309 --> 02:43:01,189
And top of that, he is also hilarious.
3077
02:43:01,814 --> 02:43:03,650
And a really sublime comedian.
3078
02:43:04,817 --> 02:43:06,361
SMART HULK: Remember...
3079
02:43:07,195 --> 02:43:09,489
you have to return the stones
to the exact moment you got 'em...
3080
02:43:09,656 --> 02:43:12,867
or you're gonna open up
a bunch of nasty alternative realities.
3081
02:43:13,034 --> 02:43:14,035
Don't worry, Bruce.
3082
02:43:14,118 --> 02:43:15,745
Clip all the branches.
3083
02:43:15,828 --> 02:43:18,164
JOE: Stones have to be returned.
3084
02:43:19,958 --> 02:43:24,545
MARKUS: And Steve's the man to do it,
the responsible one.
3085
02:43:24,629 --> 02:43:26,965
Couldn't possibly have
an ulterior motive.
3086
02:43:27,048 --> 02:43:31,678
JOE: And we once again reinforce
that it was an everlasting exchange,
3087
02:43:31,761 --> 02:43:33,721
- the rules cannot be broken.
- MARKUS: Mmm-hmm.
3088
02:43:33,846 --> 02:43:36,224
JOE: Even the stones
cannot return someone
3089
02:43:36,307 --> 02:43:38,643
who has sacrificed themselves
for the Soul Stone.
3090
02:43:41,104 --> 02:43:43,523
Now, clearly Bucky
knows something here, right?
3091
02:43:44,399 --> 02:43:46,943
McFEELY: Yeah, I think it's clear
from Sebastian's performance here
3092
02:43:47,026 --> 02:43:49,570
that he's been clued in,
3093
02:43:50,446 --> 02:43:52,740
that Bucky's been clued in
to Steve's decision.
3094
02:43:52,824 --> 02:43:55,284
Why would he say, "I'm gonna miss you"
if it's gonna be five seconds?
3095
02:43:55,368 --> 02:43:57,829
JOE: Mmm-hmm. He knows.
3096
02:43:57,912 --> 02:44:01,207
Now, we don't know the extent to which
what Steve told him,
3097
02:44:01,290 --> 02:44:03,042
but clearly he told him something.
3098
02:44:03,126 --> 02:44:05,169
McFEELY: Yeah, and I don't think
he said...
3099
02:44:05,253 --> 02:44:06,879
- "I'll go sit on the bench over there."
-JOE: "I'll be back."
3100
02:44:06,963 --> 02:44:10,174
McFEELY: I think he's certainly
surprised to see that.
3101
02:44:13,261 --> 02:44:15,054
How long is this gonna take?
3102
02:44:17,557 --> 02:44:23,855
JOE: One of the joys of
the last 11 years is just seeing Cap
3103
02:44:23,938 --> 02:44:27,191
so effortlessly pick up that hammer
again and again.
3104
02:44:27,650 --> 02:44:28,776
You bet.
3105
02:44:30,278 --> 02:44:31,863
SMART HULK: Going quantum.
Three...
3106
02:44:32,280 --> 02:44:33,281
two...
3107
02:44:33,948 --> 02:44:35,158
one.
3108
02:44:37,035 --> 02:44:39,078
And returning in five...
3109
02:44:39,245 --> 02:44:40,288
four...
3110
02:44:41,372 --> 02:44:42,415
MARKUS: And I have to say,
3111
02:44:42,498 --> 02:44:45,334
when this got figured out,
it never changed.
3112
02:44:46,502 --> 02:44:50,089
JOE: And this was pretty early.
This was one of the first things that...
3113
02:44:51,174 --> 02:44:53,051
And you are right. It never changed.
3114
02:44:53,134 --> 02:44:57,013
But both Tony and Cap's endings
were very clear
3115
02:44:57,180 --> 02:44:59,599
throughout the entire process.
3116
02:45:00,600 --> 02:45:02,435
You cannot tell a story
between two films
3117
02:45:02,518 --> 02:45:05,229
unless you understand
the ending of the second film.
3118
02:45:06,564 --> 02:45:08,524
McFEELY: We put stakes in the ground
and drove at them.
3119
02:45:08,608 --> 02:45:10,610
JOE: Yeah, and you can't write
the last chapter of a book
3120
02:45:10,693 --> 02:45:13,529
with 21 preceding chapters
without knowing
3121
02:45:13,946 --> 02:45:17,533
what the final 30 pages are gonna be.
3122
02:45:22,663 --> 02:45:25,208
MARKUS: And I find it hard to believe...
3123
02:45:27,460 --> 02:45:30,171
And that's what makes Marvel so special,
3124
02:45:31,005 --> 02:45:35,051
is that we were given the opportunity
to take this character all the way
3125
02:45:35,134 --> 02:45:37,845
from start to finish over the course
3126
02:45:38,471 --> 02:45:41,724
of however many movies
to bring him all the way back around
3127
02:45:41,808 --> 02:45:44,352
back to Peggy again,
back to the '40s again.
3128
02:45:44,852 --> 02:45:45,978
JOE: The other thing is,
3129
02:45:47,688 --> 02:45:49,524
what has to be applauded
3130
02:45:49,607 --> 02:45:51,984
is taking a commercial property,
3131
02:45:53,069 --> 02:45:55,279
a lucrative commercial property
3132
02:45:55,363 --> 02:45:59,659
and committing to finality
and an ending.
3133
02:45:59,742 --> 02:46:00,743
McFEELY: Right.
3134
02:46:00,827 --> 02:46:04,497
JOE: Because nothing has value unless
it has an ending.
3135
02:46:06,791 --> 02:46:08,126
...maybe...
3136
02:46:08,626 --> 02:46:13,422
I'll try some of that life
Tony was telling me to get.
3137
02:46:15,424 --> 02:46:17,552
SAM: How'd that work out for ya?
3138
02:46:20,054 --> 02:46:21,472
It was beautiful.
3139
02:46:22,807 --> 02:46:24,517
Good. I'm happy for you.
3140
02:46:24,684 --> 02:46:25,726
Truly.
3141
02:46:26,477 --> 02:46:27,770
Thank you.
3142
02:46:29,105 --> 02:46:30,356
Only thing bumming me out...
3143
02:46:30,523 --> 02:46:34,110
is the fact I have to live in a world
without Captain America.
3144
02:46:35,111 --> 02:46:39,407
MARKUS: And now, a choice that
3145
02:46:40,741 --> 02:46:42,869
for some in the outside world,
was up for debate...
3146
02:46:43,035 --> 02:46:44,954
I don't think it ever really was.
3147
02:46:45,121 --> 02:46:46,539
JOE: No.
3148
02:46:47,331 --> 02:46:49,083
MARKUS: Sam represents
3149
02:46:49,250 --> 02:46:51,961
everything Captain America
is supposed to represent,
3150
02:46:52,128 --> 02:46:55,590
which is the idea
of what this country could be.
3151
02:46:57,842 --> 02:47:00,219
And Bucky, I've said before,
3152
02:47:00,386 --> 02:47:04,182
in a way, he represents
what this country actually is,
3153
02:47:04,348 --> 02:47:09,604
which is a murky, political situation,
as evidenced in Winter Soldier.
3154
02:47:13,191 --> 02:47:15,693
But Captain America
has always represented
3155
02:47:15,860 --> 02:47:18,362
the idea behind the country,
3156
02:47:19,155 --> 02:47:20,656
and Sam's much closer to that.
3157
02:47:20,823 --> 02:47:22,992
McFEELY: Well, it's a rich story
going forward,
3158
02:47:23,075 --> 02:47:25,286
if Marvel chooses to explore it.
3159
02:47:25,995 --> 02:47:28,456
What does it mean for this man
3160
02:47:28,539 --> 02:47:33,127
with his own identity as Falcon,
3161
02:47:33,294 --> 02:47:36,130
his own hero identity,
to take on another one?
3162
02:47:36,297 --> 02:47:38,257
What does it mean
for an African-American man
3163
02:47:38,424 --> 02:47:40,843
to take on the mantle
of Captain America?
3164
02:47:41,010 --> 02:47:43,179
How does he feel about that?
3165
02:47:43,346 --> 02:47:45,306
Is he honored?
3166
02:47:46,057 --> 02:47:48,309
Does he chafe against it?
3167
02:47:48,476 --> 02:47:51,062
There's a lot of rich stuff
to explore there.
3168
02:47:51,229 --> 02:47:52,813
JOE: And it's the first time
3169
02:47:53,272 --> 02:47:55,650
that an identity is being passed
from one character to another.
3170
02:47:55,816 --> 02:47:56,817
McFEELY: Yeah.
3171
02:47:57,276 --> 02:47:58,611
JOE: And you're right...
3172
02:47:58,778 --> 02:48:00,821
What is the new identity
that he creates with this?
3173
02:48:00,988 --> 02:48:03,241
McFEELY: How do others see it?
JOE: Yeah.
3174
02:48:06,577 --> 02:48:08,329
MARKUS: And now,
3175
02:48:08,913 --> 02:48:11,499
just the loveliest shot in cinema.
3176
02:48:11,666 --> 02:48:12,917
McFEELY: Yeah.
3177
02:48:13,084 --> 02:48:14,293
I think it should be noted,
3178
02:48:14,460 --> 02:48:17,338
it's kind of sometimes hard to notice,
the door is open here.
3179
02:48:17,630 --> 02:48:21,050
JOE: This is very shortly
after their reunion.
3180
02:48:21,217 --> 02:48:23,844
McFEELY: I imagine that,
about 10 minutes ago,
3181
02:48:24,011 --> 02:48:25,304
he knocked on the door,
3182
02:48:25,471 --> 02:48:28,516
she dropped whatever
she was holding. (LAUGHS)
3183
02:48:28,599 --> 02:48:30,851
JOE: And it led to this.
3184
02:48:33,104 --> 02:48:35,398
Again, it's interesting
to talk about Cap's arc, too,
3185
02:48:35,564 --> 02:48:38,776
just going from service
to self-actualization.
3186
02:48:38,943 --> 02:48:39,944
McFEELY: Yeah.
JOE: Right?
3187
02:48:40,111 --> 02:48:42,029
And Tony going from selfish to selfless.
3188
02:48:42,196 --> 02:48:43,197
McFEELY: Yes.
3189
02:48:43,281 --> 02:48:45,074
JOE: They're traveling
incredible distances,
3190
02:48:45,157 --> 02:48:46,993
these characters, over these movies,
3191
02:48:47,159 --> 02:48:49,787
and in a way, inverted arcs.
3192
02:48:49,954 --> 02:48:52,581
- They're passing one another.
- McFEELY: They pass in the night there.
3193
02:48:52,748 --> 02:48:55,793
JOE: But it's Tony
who gives him this gift.
3194
02:48:55,960 --> 02:49:00,673
It is Tony who tells him
that he needs to get a life.
3195
02:49:02,717 --> 02:49:05,094
McFEELY: And Tony dying
gives him this gift as well.
3196
02:49:05,553 --> 02:49:06,554
JOE: Gives him the gift as well.
3197
02:49:06,637 --> 02:49:09,807
Tony repairing the universe
and sealing the fate of Thanos
3198
02:49:09,974 --> 02:49:12,310
is what allows Steve to make that choice
3199
02:49:12,476 --> 02:49:15,146
and pass the mantle on to someone else
3200
02:49:15,563 --> 02:49:19,191
who has that hope and belief
3201
02:49:19,358 --> 02:49:23,029
as you were saying about Sam is that...
3202
02:49:24,530 --> 02:49:28,659
Cap went on that journey,
and that journey had disillusionment
3203
02:49:28,826 --> 02:49:31,537
and it led to him becoming an insurgent,
3204
02:49:31,704 --> 02:49:34,457
and then finding his way back again
3205
02:49:34,623 --> 02:49:39,128
to help complete the original mission
of the Infinity Saga.
3206
02:49:39,295 --> 02:49:42,089
McFEELY: To complete it,
it's gotta be okay for the soldier
3207
02:49:42,256 --> 02:49:44,050
to put down his shield.
3208
02:49:44,216 --> 02:49:46,635
JOE: And move on from the war.
McFEELY: Yeah.
3209
02:49:47,219 --> 02:49:49,555
That's why you fight,
so that you can end the fight.
3210
02:49:52,850 --> 02:49:56,562
MARKUS: He is a World War II soldier
who has finally come home.
3211
02:49:56,645 --> 02:49:57,646
McFEELY: That's right.
3212
02:49:57,730 --> 02:49:59,190
MARKUS: It took a long time,
but he got there.
3213
02:50:00,024 --> 02:50:02,401
McFEELY: I think
it can be seen as poignant.
3214
02:50:04,987 --> 02:50:08,199
JOE: And these credits
are an incredible celebration
3215
02:50:08,366 --> 02:50:11,285
of all of the amazing people
3216
02:50:11,827 --> 02:50:14,246
behind movies of this scale.
3217
02:50:14,413 --> 02:50:18,125
They're truly a collaboration
3218
02:50:18,667 --> 02:50:20,878
between hundreds of people
3219
02:50:21,045 --> 02:50:25,883
all doing very, very difficult work
behind the scenes,
3220
02:50:26,884 --> 02:50:29,637
and these films are not possible
3221
02:50:30,805 --> 02:50:32,139
without them.
3222
02:50:32,306 --> 02:50:36,185
And what's amazing is when you get
to the crew credits,
3223
02:50:36,560 --> 02:50:40,815
how long it goes on for,
and it's thousands of names.
3224
02:50:41,357 --> 02:50:43,484
Thousands of people
3225
02:50:44,068 --> 02:50:47,154
- spending hours and hours.
- MARKUS: Years.
3226
02:50:48,239 --> 02:50:50,783
There were people there in Atlanta
3227
02:50:51,659 --> 02:50:56,414
just living these two movies
for, at least, two years.
3228
02:50:57,164 --> 02:50:59,708
JOE: Now, coming up,
this is an idea from Kevin,
3229
02:51:00,459 --> 02:51:03,087
which is a curtain call
for the original Avengers
3230
02:51:03,295 --> 02:51:05,047
and something that was
very important to him,
3231
02:51:05,131 --> 02:51:06,465
and, I think, very emotional for him.
3232
02:51:06,632 --> 02:51:09,135
McFEELY: Yeah, inspired by...
3233
02:51:09,301 --> 02:51:10,719
I forget which Star Trek it is.
3234
02:51:10,886 --> 02:51:12,263
JOE: Yeah, I think it's Star Trek...
Is it Three?
3235
02:51:12,430 --> 02:51:15,766
McFEELY: Whatever the last one is
with the original cast.
3236
02:51:20,604 --> 02:51:22,898
JOE: If you're in a Broadway theater...
3237
02:51:23,774 --> 02:51:25,401
McFEELY: Yes, it's a curtain call.
3238
02:51:25,568 --> 02:51:28,320
JOE: It's the cast coming out
to take their bows.
3239
02:51:56,599 --> 02:51:58,267
Now, what's also
3240
02:51:59,518 --> 02:52:03,981
unique about this film is that
it's the endgame for the four of us.
3241
02:52:04,064 --> 02:52:05,399
MARKUS: Mmm.
McFEELY: Right.
3242
02:52:05,483 --> 02:52:08,903
JOE: We went on
a seven-year journey together.
3243
02:52:10,779 --> 02:52:13,032
Culminating in
3244
02:52:14,325 --> 02:52:17,536
two very, very difficult movies
back to back.
3245
02:52:21,832 --> 02:52:26,003
This again, being in that theater
on a Thursday night, on opening night,
3246
02:52:27,296 --> 02:52:29,840
it got applause,
and when it got to Robert,
3247
02:52:30,007 --> 02:52:31,550
- it got a standing ovation.
- (McFEELY CHUCKLES)
3248
02:52:31,634 --> 02:52:33,594
McFEELY: I guess it did. That's right.
3249
02:52:35,137 --> 02:52:37,306
JOE: As if they were really in the room.
3250
02:52:37,389 --> 02:52:38,682
McFEELY: That's right.
3251
02:52:40,768 --> 02:52:42,853
JOE: What I remember as a kid
going to Star Wars
3252
02:52:43,020 --> 02:52:46,815
and Empire and Return of the Jedi
or Indiana Jones,
3253
02:52:46,982 --> 02:52:48,359
Close Encounters,
3254
02:52:48,526 --> 02:52:52,571
the feeling that they left me with
when I walked out of that theater
3255
02:52:52,738 --> 02:52:56,909
and the impatience and the wait
in between every Star Wars movie.
3256
02:52:58,702 --> 02:53:01,288
That's moviemaking,
that's what cinema is.
3257
02:53:01,372 --> 02:53:06,460
That's what this modern version
of cave paintings is,
3258
02:53:07,586 --> 02:53:13,175
and we're passing stories
and emotions to each other.
3259
02:53:14,552 --> 02:53:19,932
And I think we're all exceedingly proud
to have been part of this story.
3260
03:00:59,016 --> 03:01:00,642
(METAL CLANGING)
295600
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