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1
00:00:36,815 --> 00:00:39,776
Hi Cliff.
My name is Michelle McNamara.
2
00:00:39,943 --> 00:00:43,988
I'm a crime writer in Los Angeles.
I am doing a series on unsolved crimes.
3
00:00:44,155 --> 00:00:47,783
Hi, Kate, this is Michelle McNamara.
4
00:00:47,950 --> 00:00:51,119
- Hey, it's Michelle.
- Hi, Michelle.
5
00:00:52,204 --> 00:00:57,000
I write a lot about unsolved cases.
One that I am very fascinated with is
6
00:00:57,166 --> 00:01:00,086
the East Area Rapist/Original Night
Stalker case.
7
00:01:00,253 --> 00:01:01,712
I think it's very solvable.
8
00:01:01,879 --> 00:01:05,007
There's a good likelihood that
he is still alive and he's out there.
9
00:01:06,717 --> 00:01:10,595
I think the narcotic pull for me is
what I think of as the powerful absence
10
00:01:10,762 --> 00:01:13,598
that haunts an unsolved crime.
11
00:01:13,765 --> 00:01:17,101
Murderers lose their power
the moment we know them.
12
00:01:17,268 --> 00:01:19,353
We see their unkempt shirts,
13
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,024
the uncertain fear tightening their
faces as they're led into a courtroom.
14
00:01:24,191 --> 00:01:26,443
When I'm puzzling over the details
of an unsolved crime,
15
00:01:26,609 --> 00:01:32,406
I'm like a rat in a maze given a task.
I mean that in the best possible way.
16
00:01:32,573 --> 00:01:35,826
The world narrows, the search propels.
17
00:01:35,993 --> 00:01:39,412
I felt in the truest sense of the word,
gripped.
18
00:01:39,579 --> 00:01:42,332
I had a murder habit and it was bad.
19
00:01:43,583 --> 00:01:46,168
I would feed it
for the rest of my life.
20
00:02:31,918 --> 00:02:38,715
I'LL BE GONE IN THE DARK
21
00:02:56,815 --> 00:02:58,900
So, what's in Herndon, Virginia ?
22
00:02:59,067 --> 00:03:04,363
Herndon, Virginia is where my parents
live, so I was back there for a week,
23
00:03:04,530 --> 00:03:08,033
and while my daughter was visiting
her grandparents,
24
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:14,205
I was in the basement struggling to get
this afterword done, it was hard going.
25
00:03:14,372 --> 00:03:17,083
'Cause I was also rereading the book.
26
00:03:18,125 --> 00:03:22,338
And there were those moments when I
would want to just like run upstairs
27
00:03:22,504 --> 00:03:25,090
and go tell her something 'cause it
felt like I was listening to her,
28
00:03:25,257 --> 00:03:27,300
and then I'd be like,
"Oh no, she's not here," you know.
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00:03:27,467 --> 00:03:31,304
So, it was a very,
it was a very dark week.
30
00:03:31,471 --> 00:03:33,306
- Yeah. Oh, I know.
- For me.
31
00:03:49,570 --> 00:03:54,908
That summer, I hunted the serial killer
at night from my daughter's playroom.
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00:03:56,368 --> 00:03:58,745
I'd retreat to my makeshift workspace
33
00:03:58,912 --> 00:04:03,374
and boot up my laptop
in search of a man I'd never met,
34
00:04:03,541 --> 00:04:07,169
who'd raped and murdered
people I didn't know.
35
00:04:08,212 --> 00:04:13,258
In 1977, the Golden State Killer,
as I'd come to call him,
36
00:04:13,425 --> 00:04:16,219
hadn't yet graduated to murder.
37
00:04:16,386 --> 00:04:19,805
Long before he was known
by the acronym "EAR/ONS,"
38
00:04:19,972 --> 00:04:23,309
and even before he was known as
the "Original Night Stalker,"
39
00:04:23,475 --> 00:04:25,811
they called him the "East Area Rapist,"
40
00:04:25,978 --> 00:04:28,730
who was attacking women and girls
in their bedrooms
41
00:04:28,897 --> 00:04:31,232
throughout Northern California.
42
00:04:31,399 --> 00:04:36,904
This man is considered to have
an extremely violent potential.
43
00:04:37,071 --> 00:04:41,742
There isn't much that you can do
except comply with his demands.
44
00:04:42,868 --> 00:04:45,704
He always wore a mask.
45
00:04:45,870 --> 00:04:47,997
The victims slept untroubled
46
00:04:48,164 --> 00:04:52,376
until the flashlight's blaze
forced open their eyes.
47
00:04:52,543 --> 00:04:56,213
Sleepy minds lumbered, then raced.
48
00:04:56,380 --> 00:04:59,424
A figure they couldn't see wielded
the light.
49
00:04:59,591 --> 00:05:02,844
But who ? And why ?
50
00:05:07,807 --> 00:05:10,225
7 YEARS EARLIER
51
00:05:10,392 --> 00:05:13,478
The other thing that's so interesting
about this case I think about a lot is,
52
00:05:13,645 --> 00:05:17,482
you know, serial killers
are... oh dear.
53
00:05:17,649 --> 00:05:19,776
This is awkward. Hi.
54
00:05:21,569 --> 00:05:23,821
Why are you wearing a skirt
as a dress ?
55
00:05:23,988 --> 00:05:27,950
Oh my god. You are so funny.
56
00:05:28,116 --> 00:05:30,911
Let's just start at the very beginning.
57
00:05:31,077 --> 00:05:34,956
How did you first become interested
in this particular case ?
58
00:05:35,123 --> 00:05:40,294
So, this particular one, what's
interesting is that I remember...
59
00:05:41,378 --> 00:05:44,673
The great tragedy of this case to me is
that it's not better known.
60
00:05:44,840 --> 00:05:49,886
I wish Zodiac would get rid of his
15 minutes of fame
61
00:05:50,053 --> 00:05:52,597
so that EAR/ONS could get
a little heat, you know.
62
00:05:52,763 --> 00:05:56,725
And so I was very shocked. I think
it was just four or five years ago
63
00:05:56,892 --> 00:06:00,937
that I happened to be home one night
and one of the E ! shows was on.
64
00:06:01,104 --> 00:06:03,148
And I thought you've got to be
kidding me, I've never, what ?
65
00:06:08,944 --> 00:06:10,988
I looked it up...
66
00:06:16,034 --> 00:06:19,287
and Larry Crompton's
book kind of got me.
67
00:06:20,747 --> 00:06:24,542
That's been the last year
kind of obsession.
68
00:06:24,708 --> 00:06:26,710
Started with that book.
69
00:06:47,103 --> 00:06:52,233
It was a Friday night. It was
probably after 1:00, closer to 2:00.
70
00:06:53,484 --> 00:06:58,822
We were awakened by a voice
and a bright light in our face.
71
00:06:58,989 --> 00:07:03,785
Then there he is with his ski mask,
72
00:07:03,952 --> 00:07:06,579
and the only thing you can see is
his silhouette.
73
00:07:06,746 --> 00:07:11,584
Then he said,
"Don't move or I'll kill you."
74
00:07:23,678 --> 00:07:28,223
Welcome to Crime Scene, a podcast
that examines real life crimes.
75
00:07:28,390 --> 00:07:32,644
I'm Michelle McNamara
of True Crime Diary.com.
76
00:07:34,562 --> 00:07:38,441
The terror began on June 18, 1976,
77
00:07:38,608 --> 00:07:41,360
when a masked man raped
a young woman home alone
78
00:07:41,527 --> 00:07:44,488
in middle class Rancho Cordova.
79
00:07:51,035 --> 00:07:53,204
Larry Crompton is a retired lieutenant
80
00:07:53,371 --> 00:07:56,374
of the Contra Costa
Sheriff's Department.
81
00:07:56,540 --> 00:07:59,668
He worked on the Rapist Task Force
in the '70s.
82
00:07:59,835 --> 00:08:07,008
Okay. All of these were suspects
that we worked on and eliminated,
83
00:08:07,175 --> 00:08:11,929
and some of them
really, really did look good.
84
00:08:13,097 --> 00:08:16,558
He recently published a book on
the case.
85
00:08:16,725 --> 00:08:20,520
"Sudden Terror" draws
on police reports, victim interviews,
86
00:08:20,687 --> 00:08:23,815
Crompton's notes, newspaper clippings.
87
00:08:25,399 --> 00:08:28,319
What follows is
my conversation with him.
88
00:08:34,950 --> 00:08:38,411
So, to put together your book
you mostly went through your files ?
89
00:08:38,578 --> 00:08:40,371
Yeah, I had everything.
90
00:08:40,538 --> 00:08:43,707
And I was there.
91
00:08:48,587 --> 00:08:53,508
Present, Sergeant Larry Crompton,
Sheriff's Office.
92
00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,432
We're conducting an interview
93
00:09:01,598 --> 00:09:07,353
for case file 7917426
that occurred on 6-11-79.
94
00:09:08,813 --> 00:09:12,316
You talk about it in the book so well,
sort of coming in and you felt him.
95
00:09:12,483 --> 00:09:14,777
And I just wondered
what that feeling was like.
96
00:09:14,944 --> 00:09:19,072
It's just...
It's hard to believe this...
97
00:09:20,115 --> 00:09:23,826
but when I walked into the house,
I had a feeling.
98
00:09:27,204 --> 00:09:31,375
The hair on the back of my neck would
just feel like it was standing up.
99
00:09:36,213 --> 00:09:39,007
It was just the...
100
00:09:39,174 --> 00:09:43,010
the fear that was
in the victims and...
101
00:09:43,177 --> 00:09:50,225
And listening to what they said you had
a feeling that this is a mad man.
102
00:09:53,311 --> 00:09:56,647
It wasn't anything that we had dealt
with before.
103
00:10:09,117 --> 00:10:13,329
He always wore a mask.
Always wore gloves.
104
00:10:13,496 --> 00:10:15,498
Talked through clenched teeth.
105
00:10:16,999 --> 00:10:20,627
Set the houses up
prior to the victim's arriving.
106
00:10:20,794 --> 00:10:24,214
Unlocked doors and windows.
Opened gates.
107
00:10:25,381 --> 00:10:31,387
Okay. This is our backyard.
This was the window right here.
108
00:10:32,429 --> 00:10:34,723
It's on the far side of the house.
109
00:10:36,016 --> 00:10:38,143
I came out here, I walked down here,
110
00:10:38,310 --> 00:10:41,938
and then went this way
to the front of the street.
111
00:10:42,105 --> 00:10:45,191
And that's how I got out, right there.
112
00:10:45,358 --> 00:10:49,444
And this is the back fence to get over.
113
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If there was a man in the house,
he would throw shoelaces on the bed,
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00:10:54,991 --> 00:10:57,452
and tell the woman to tie him up.
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00:10:57,618 --> 00:11:01,205
He would rummage and then he would
come back with dishes.
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00:11:01,372 --> 00:11:03,749
He'd put dishes on the man's back
and tell him,
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00:11:03,916 --> 00:11:07,752
"If I hear these dishes rattle,
I'm gonna kill your wife."
118
00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:11,214
And that was what he was putting into
their minds...
119
00:11:11,381 --> 00:11:14,133
that they were going to die
120
00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:18,053
and that's what he did
over and over and over.
121
00:11:18,220 --> 00:11:20,055
2/2/78.
122
00:11:23,141 --> 00:11:24,517
Twenty-three.
123
00:11:27,478 --> 00:11:32,441
The attack
happened on May 14th, 1977.
124
00:11:32,608 --> 00:11:35,819
So, this was my first birthday
after the attack.
125
00:11:38,405 --> 00:11:42,700
That's the room it was in.
There's my kitchen.
126
00:11:44,285 --> 00:11:48,038
Boy, I have not looked
at these pictures in a long time.
127
00:11:49,790 --> 00:11:54,002
My job is to catch him
and I didn't do that and...
128
00:11:54,169 --> 00:11:55,795
I can't let it go.
129
00:11:57,797 --> 00:12:00,508
Were normally the victims so relieved
that they were alive that they...
130
00:12:00,675 --> 00:12:03,219
Oh yes. Definitely.
131
00:12:03,385 --> 00:12:06,138
Yeah, I wondered. I tried to put myself
in that situation.
132
00:12:06,305 --> 00:12:11,059
And to go into someone's home is
screwing with them mentally, too.
133
00:12:11,226 --> 00:12:14,854
- Yeah. That's scary.
- Yeah.
134
00:12:33,871 --> 00:12:39,918
I think the story of the victims,
it has to be told.
135
00:12:42,796 --> 00:12:46,507
I remember Michelle ultimately wanted
to serve
136
00:12:46,674 --> 00:12:49,218
helping to get this guy caught.
137
00:12:49,385 --> 00:12:54,973
She looked at it
from the hopeful optimistic humans
138
00:12:55,140 --> 00:12:57,892
putting puzzles together,
trying to get closure,
139
00:12:58,059 --> 00:13:01,646
trying to make sense of violence
and despair.
140
00:13:03,356 --> 00:13:08,402
I mean, what drives me
is the need to put a face
141
00:13:08,569 --> 00:13:10,737
on an unknown killer.
142
00:13:10,904 --> 00:13:17,201
And what I love is this intersection of
sort of technology and crime solving
143
00:13:17,368 --> 00:13:20,162
in that people can get sort of
wheeled out of their house
144
00:13:20,329 --> 00:13:24,791
for something they did in 1957 because
of the internet, because of DNA.
145
00:13:24,958 --> 00:13:29,170
I really get off on that.
That is so amazing to me.
146
00:13:29,337 --> 00:13:31,172
And I want to be a part of that.
147
00:13:31,339 --> 00:13:35,301
Everyone has their cause, and this just
feels like what I was born to do.
148
00:13:35,467 --> 00:13:38,637
Pacific Northwest murders
149
00:13:40,055 --> 00:13:43,058
I love digging for clues,
I love putting things together.
150
00:13:43,224 --> 00:13:45,977
I love the puzzling part of it.
I love being wrong
151
00:13:46,144 --> 00:13:47,520
because sometimes it proves
152
00:13:47,687 --> 00:13:49,814
that you didn't know enough,
and you learn new techniques.
153
00:13:49,980 --> 00:13:52,399
I love every single aspect of it.
154
00:13:55,402 --> 00:13:58,363
What led you to starting this blog ?
155
00:13:58,530 --> 00:14:02,617
I always followed crime stories
and that I was always a writer.
156
00:14:02,784 --> 00:14:06,412
So, I really just, I started it
on a lark really.
157
00:14:07,663 --> 00:14:11,041
I started reading Michelle's blog,
True Crime Diary,
158
00:14:11,208 --> 00:14:13,668
basically on a recommendation.
159
00:14:13,835 --> 00:14:18,089
And I was obsessed with it.
Like she couldn't post enough.
160
00:14:18,256 --> 00:14:22,593
And her stories and the way she told
them made them so memorable.
161
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,720
You know, they all stuck with you.
162
00:14:25,762 --> 00:14:28,807
Whatever light existed was blotted out.
163
00:14:28,974 --> 00:14:32,268
The sound of hurried footsteps
faded away.
164
00:14:32,435 --> 00:14:36,355
It had that feeling of under the
blanket with a flashlight at night.
165
00:14:36,522 --> 00:14:41,151
I was kind of amazed
at how quickly it caught on.
166
00:14:41,318 --> 00:14:44,446
When people talk to me
about finding that blog,
167
00:14:44,612 --> 00:14:48,574
there's a real excitement, people were
like, "I've read every single post."
168
00:14:48,741 --> 00:14:50,993
It was like they were drug addicts
or something.
169
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,621
About a year in, I started to realize
I wasn't really in an echo chamber,
170
00:14:54,788 --> 00:14:57,582
that people were kind of starting to
read it and respond to it.
171
00:14:57,749 --> 00:15:02,211
Most of the TV shows that would cover
these stories were very cold
172
00:15:02,378 --> 00:15:04,589
or really kind of exploitive.
173
00:15:04,755 --> 00:15:07,591
You spent a bunch of time watching
174
00:15:07,758 --> 00:15:10,761
a reenactment
of a beautiful young actress
175
00:15:10,928 --> 00:15:14,514
being attacked over and over
while wearing lingerie.
176
00:15:14,681 --> 00:15:18,935
Michelle's blog kind of changed,
I think, the focus.
177
00:15:19,102 --> 00:15:20,686
She personalized those people.
178
00:15:20,853 --> 00:15:26,525
If you can remind people about the
humanity at the other end of that gun,
179
00:15:26,692 --> 00:15:29,903
this was a person with
hopes and dreams, with family,
180
00:15:30,070 --> 00:15:31,821
that could have done this, this,
or this.
181
00:15:31,988 --> 00:15:33,489
That's what Michelle did
in her writing.
182
00:15:33,656 --> 00:15:36,117
All right, here we go, folks.
We've got Michelle McNamara.
183
00:15:36,284 --> 00:15:38,202
She's a writer and a web sleuth.
184
00:15:38,369 --> 00:15:42,289
She has taught college writing,
worked as an editor, sold TV pilots,
185
00:15:42,456 --> 00:15:43,999
and also consulted for Dateline.
186
00:15:44,166 --> 00:15:46,918
She is a truth seeker is what she is.
187
00:15:47,085 --> 00:15:49,379
Let's face it, you have a career.
You have a life
188
00:15:49,545 --> 00:15:51,756
because people
are always gonna get murdered.
189
00:15:51,922 --> 00:15:54,133
- You deal in the devil.
- The murder biz.
190
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:59,179
She was a pioneer. She was somebody
who was creating something new.
191
00:15:59,346 --> 00:16:01,765
Yeah, nothing was like that in 2007.
192
00:16:03,474 --> 00:16:06,852
Hi, Los Angeles.
Patton Oswalt on Jonesy's Jukebox.
193
00:16:07,019 --> 00:16:09,188
That was Ceremony by New Order.
194
00:16:09,355 --> 00:16:13,608
I am sitting here with the lovely and
intelligent Michelle McNamara, my wife,
195
00:16:13,775 --> 00:16:17,654
who is the writer and creator
of True Crime Diary.com.
196
00:16:17,821 --> 00:16:21,782
I think this is one of the best written
and creepiest crime blogs on the web...
197
00:16:21,949 --> 00:16:24,285
- You're such a good husband.
- It is. No, it's a good...
198
00:16:24,451 --> 00:16:28,914
If this site was awful,
I'd have to be lying all the time,
199
00:16:29,081 --> 00:16:31,291
so... Michelle ?
200
00:16:31,458 --> 00:16:34,502
You were telling me about something
going on in the Northwest right now.
201
00:16:36,838 --> 00:16:41,508
Yeah, I have a theory there is a serial
killer operating in the Northwest
202
00:16:41,675 --> 00:16:47,889
who is killing couples out camping.
There's been about four or five cases
203
00:16:48,056 --> 00:16:52,685
where there seems to be no motive,
and they are both shot in the head.
204
00:16:53,686 --> 00:16:55,646
I remember the Jenner case so clearly.
205
00:16:55,813 --> 00:16:59,274
That was such a turning point for her
because...
206
00:16:59,441 --> 00:17:04,028
she became very fascinated
with how crimes are investigated.
207
00:17:04,195 --> 00:17:06,447
It's not easy to get to this beach.
208
00:17:06,614 --> 00:17:10,659
You have to negotiate a tricky path
down a rocky cliff.
209
00:17:14,538 --> 00:17:16,414
On Wednesday, August 18,
210
00:17:16,581 --> 00:17:21,669
a Sheriff's helicopter noticed
two sleeping bags on Fish Head Beach.
211
00:17:21,836 --> 00:17:24,922
Despite the noise and nearness
of the helicopter,
212
00:17:25,089 --> 00:17:28,133
the figures in the sleeping bags
didn't move.
213
00:17:29,092 --> 00:17:32,637
Lindsay and Jason had each been shot
in the head at close range
214
00:17:32,804 --> 00:17:36,307
with a .45 caliber Marlin rifle.
215
00:17:36,474 --> 00:17:37,850
That is a creepy beach.
216
00:17:38,017 --> 00:17:41,437
I showed you all that evidence, or all
that footage. It's a very creepy beach.
217
00:17:41,604 --> 00:17:45,691
The act of actually going
to the crime scene and walking the case
218
00:17:45,857 --> 00:17:48,777
made her go, "Oh, yeah, I can't just be
clicking on the internet."
219
00:17:48,943 --> 00:17:51,988
I have to go visit places
and look at places.
220
00:17:53,364 --> 00:17:55,074
It changed the way she wrote about it.
221
00:17:56,117 --> 00:18:01,705
When did you make the shift, Michelle,
from reading stuff and absorbing it
222
00:18:01,872 --> 00:18:03,873
to thinking I can do something here,
223
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,878
I can start trying to connect dots that
I might see that others have missed ?
224
00:18:09,045 --> 00:18:11,255
There was this kind of national news
225
00:18:11,422 --> 00:18:13,465
about a kidnapping
that took place in Missouri.
226
00:18:13,632 --> 00:18:16,343
This boy had been kidnapped
from a bus stop.
227
00:18:16,510 --> 00:18:19,888
And it immediately reminded me of
a lesser known case that had happened
228
00:18:20,055 --> 00:18:22,181
five years before that no one else
was talking about,
229
00:18:22,348 --> 00:18:24,725
but there were things that were
interesting to me.
230
00:18:24,892 --> 00:18:28,312
So, I posted that I think whoever took
this boy, Ben Ownby,
231
00:18:28,479 --> 00:18:30,772
probably also took this kid,
Shawn Hornbeck.
232
00:18:30,939 --> 00:18:32,607
And I posted it on a Wednesday.
233
00:18:32,774 --> 00:18:36,194
That Friday, the police in St. Louis
went to investigate a tip about
234
00:18:36,361 --> 00:18:39,489
where Ben Ownby might be,
and they knocked on the door,
235
00:18:39,655 --> 00:18:41,741
and Shawn Hornbeck opened the door.
236
00:18:41,907 --> 00:18:44,910
You mean a kid who'd been kidnapped
years earlier answered the door ?
237
00:18:45,077 --> 00:18:48,163
Right. And again, this was three days
after I had posted
238
00:18:48,330 --> 00:18:51,708
I think they're probably taken
by the same person.
239
00:18:51,875 --> 00:18:53,501
That was a big moment for me.
240
00:18:53,668 --> 00:18:56,670
I could start to see where
my head full of facts and details
241
00:18:56,837 --> 00:18:59,923
could intersect with technology.
242
00:19:00,090 --> 00:19:03,468
I had started to kind of use
internet tools
243
00:19:03,635 --> 00:19:07,764
to figure out that they seemed similar
and that they might be connected.
244
00:19:07,931 --> 00:19:10,474
It's got to be amazing
when you find a new sort of clue.
245
00:19:10,641 --> 00:19:14,061
When people describe like
porn addiction or something.
246
00:19:14,228 --> 00:19:19,441
- This is really weird.
- I can't stop myself. Time disappears.
247
00:19:19,608 --> 00:19:22,986
- All those things happen.
- So, it's a genuine addiction.
248
00:19:23,152 --> 00:19:24,570
- You are on board.
- Yeah.
249
00:19:24,737 --> 00:19:28,699
- Are you doing this now ? Currently ?
- Every night. Until 2 in the morning.
250
00:19:30,367 --> 00:19:34,704
I cannot remember the specific time
we started talking about EAR/ONS
251
00:19:34,871 --> 00:19:38,416
because every day, there was so many
cases she was following up.
252
00:19:38,583 --> 00:19:45,047
And then just organically, that became
the thing that got narrowed down.
253
00:19:47,216 --> 00:19:50,177
I looked at Michelle's blog,
True Crime Diary.com,
254
00:19:50,343 --> 00:19:51,928
and I was really intrigued.
255
00:19:52,095 --> 00:19:56,557
So, she and I first met in 2011 to talk
about some story ideas,
256
00:19:56,724 --> 00:20:02,479
and she was so smart and so cool
257
00:20:02,646 --> 00:20:05,607
and down to earth,
and her shit was together.
258
00:20:05,774 --> 00:20:08,818
Not only that, I really liked
how she was unpretentious
259
00:20:08,985 --> 00:20:12,655
in an obviously pretty pretentious city
and business.
260
00:20:12,822 --> 00:20:14,782
I remember she wore these clogs.
261
00:20:14,949 --> 00:20:18,202
She had a backpack
that she bought at Target.
262
00:20:18,368 --> 00:20:23,623
And she just showed up in a flannel
shirt and as like low key as possible.
263
00:20:23,790 --> 00:20:28,544
So, we meet up, we go to this café.
I think we met there like at 11
264
00:20:28,711 --> 00:20:32,631
and probably didn't leave until
about three o'clock in the afternoon.
265
00:20:32,798 --> 00:20:37,761
Because she started telling me
this story about this guy.
266
00:20:39,846 --> 00:20:43,808
The case that is sort of the biggest
case that I'm most obsessed with is,
267
00:20:43,974 --> 00:20:48,687
the short version is basically he's the
worst serial offender in modern history
268
00:20:48,854 --> 00:20:50,605
that no one really knows about.
269
00:20:50,772 --> 00:20:54,984
He raped over 50 women in California
and killed 10 people.
270
00:20:56,110 --> 00:20:58,529
And he's never been caught.
271
00:20:58,696 --> 00:21:01,865
There's no one like him out there.
There hasn't been before.
272
00:21:02,032 --> 00:21:06,328
He is such a unique offender.
273
00:21:06,495 --> 00:21:12,291
This guy was one of the most prolific,
violent, brutal serial rapists,
274
00:21:12,458 --> 00:21:16,253
and eventually a murderer,
and I had never heard of him.
275
00:21:16,420 --> 00:21:18,630
Like you'd heard of Zodiac Killer,
you heard Son of Sam,
276
00:21:18,797 --> 00:21:22,300
you hear of all these big, especially
in the '70s and '80s, which seem to be
277
00:21:22,467 --> 00:21:26,054
the most fertile period
for these serial killer stories,
278
00:21:26,220 --> 00:21:28,723
and I had never heard of him.
279
00:21:28,890 --> 00:21:30,599
He would eat in the people's kitchens,
280
00:21:30,766 --> 00:21:33,936
he would hide ligatures under cushions
so that when he was attacking,
281
00:21:34,103 --> 00:21:37,022
you suddenly would watch this man
take a ligature under your cushion
282
00:21:37,189 --> 00:21:39,274
that you didn't even know
he had been in your house.
283
00:21:39,441 --> 00:21:43,986
I'm drinking this Arnold Palmer
that's 36 thousand ounces and I'm like
284
00:21:44,153 --> 00:21:47,489
sipping on it and drinking it
as she's telling me this story.
285
00:21:47,656 --> 00:21:52,786
I needed to go to the bathroom badly
because my bladder was about to burst,
286
00:21:52,953 --> 00:21:57,165
but I couldn't. I couldn't. I just kept
listening and listening and listening.
287
00:21:57,332 --> 00:21:58,958
And that's how I knew
it was a great story.
288
00:21:59,125 --> 00:22:03,337
The challenge for any magazine editor,
any reporter and writer is
289
00:22:03,504 --> 00:22:06,632
sure, you have a person
or you have a topic,
290
00:22:06,798 --> 00:22:09,426
really interesting guy
from a long time ago,
291
00:22:09,592 --> 00:22:12,053
but there was nothing new to say yet.
292
00:22:15,598 --> 00:22:18,100
What's fascinating to me
about this case is that
293
00:22:18,267 --> 00:22:23,105
it's rich with so many clues, and it
really seems to me that it's just
294
00:22:23,271 --> 00:22:27,192
time, energy, and curiosity.
And that...
295
00:22:27,358 --> 00:22:30,861
And frankly, it should be solved.
It just should be.
296
00:22:33,822 --> 00:22:37,409
When I was so gripped by
Crompton's book,
297
00:22:37,576 --> 00:22:41,454
I googled East Area Rapist,
Original Night Stalker,
298
00:22:41,621 --> 00:22:46,250
and this came up, this link to the
A&E Cold Case Files message board.
299
00:22:47,877 --> 00:22:54,007
For someone like me, again,
it's like oh wow, look at all these...
300
00:22:54,174 --> 00:22:59,512
Wow. Wait, who would spend, you know,
all this time ?
301
00:22:59,679 --> 00:23:04,225
Well, me I guess because it's a week
later and I've read 20 thousand posts.
302
00:23:07,019 --> 00:23:10,689
You know, certainly in this case,
there was this community of people,
303
00:23:10,855 --> 00:23:12,565
they all had different reasons
for being involved in it.
304
00:23:12,732 --> 00:23:15,526
Some of them were from Sacramento
and remembered
305
00:23:15,693 --> 00:23:19,113
and were still fearful
and wanted to see it closed.
306
00:23:22,616 --> 00:23:28,705
Others were more kind of just
data mining, sleuth kind of people.
307
00:23:31,499 --> 00:23:34,418
This was unique to me because
I've never actually been part of this
308
00:23:34,585 --> 00:23:36,879
sort of message board
community before.
309
00:23:37,045 --> 00:23:42,675
They throw around clues,
you go down the rabbit hole gleefully
310
00:23:42,842 --> 00:23:48,305
like oh there's just this unending
thread of information that I can find.
311
00:23:48,472 --> 00:23:53,727
EAR/ONS is an acronym for the East Area
Rapist slash Original Night Stalker.
312
00:23:53,894 --> 00:23:57,188
It's an awkward name befitting a man
who crossed jurisdictions
313
00:23:57,355 --> 00:24:00,358
and flummoxed law enforcement
for decades.
314
00:24:00,525 --> 00:24:02,860
What kind of man was he ?
315
00:24:08,490 --> 00:24:13,244
My favourite true-crime blogger
just wrote about the EAR.
316
00:24:13,411 --> 00:24:17,206
I've been aware of Michelle
for probably a few years,
317
00:24:17,373 --> 00:24:19,583
as I was a fan of her True Crime Diary.
318
00:24:21,043 --> 00:24:23,795
I'd read True Crime Diary
in its entirety.
319
00:24:23,962 --> 00:24:29,217
So, when she finally wrote about East
Area Rapist, it was exciting.
320
00:24:29,384 --> 00:24:34,597
I'm obsessed. It's not healthy.
I know the strangest details about him.
321
00:24:34,764 --> 00:24:39,017
I know his blood type.
I know his penis size.
322
00:24:39,184 --> 00:24:42,395
He vaulted fences.
He escaped foot chases.
323
00:24:42,562 --> 00:24:46,232
But I believe it's the rare moments
when he was human
324
00:24:46,399 --> 00:24:49,068
that will be his downfall in the end.
325
00:24:49,235 --> 00:24:53,781
Her writing evoked the central hook
for me, which was the mystery,
326
00:24:53,947 --> 00:24:56,825
the question of
who is behind this crime ?
327
00:24:56,992 --> 00:24:59,577
She wasn't a ghoulish gore hound.
328
00:24:59,744 --> 00:25:03,372
There was nothing tasteless about her
writing. It struck just the right tone.
329
00:25:03,539 --> 00:25:05,958
An impressive community of people
has come together
330
00:25:06,125 --> 00:25:10,879
at an A&E sponsored website. Unlike
other unsolved mystery communities,
331
00:25:11,046 --> 00:25:16,134
the EAR/ONS community's desire
for justice feels strong and sincere.
332
00:25:16,301 --> 00:25:19,095
She reached out to me privately,
and we started corresponding,
333
00:25:19,262 --> 00:25:23,807
and it was evident she was
entrenched in this case. As was I.
334
00:25:23,974 --> 00:25:27,978
I saw who seemed to be some of the kind
of leaders on the board,
335
00:25:28,144 --> 00:25:30,396
and I just began kind of
personal messaging.
336
00:25:30,563 --> 00:25:36,652
We started exchanging notes and
developed a rapport pretty quickly.
337
00:25:36,819 --> 00:25:38,529
We just built mutual trust
338
00:25:38,696 --> 00:25:42,491
until we were just openly sharing
our work with each other.
339
00:25:42,657 --> 00:25:46,536
And that's when we discovered that
a lot of it had intersected.
340
00:25:47,578 --> 00:25:50,956
We kind of started exchanging ideas
and theories and things like that,
341
00:25:51,123 --> 00:25:53,292
and we just kind of forged
a friendship,
342
00:25:53,459 --> 00:25:58,046
a strange friendship
over this strange 30-year-old case.
343
00:25:58,213 --> 00:25:59,798
You're the best, Paul Haynes !
344
00:26:01,633 --> 00:26:07,179
Hi, my name is Michelle. I'm a
long-time lurker on the EAR/ONS board.
345
00:26:07,346 --> 00:26:09,390
The case is of interest to me
and you seem
346
00:26:09,556 --> 00:26:12,601
really measured and thoughtful
in your responses.
347
00:26:12,768 --> 00:26:15,729
I wanted to know if you have
any thoughts on something.
348
00:26:15,895 --> 00:26:17,647
I spent an afternoon doing
some research,
349
00:26:17,814 --> 00:26:22,068
and I feel like I've stumbled upon
a compelling suspect.
350
00:26:22,234 --> 00:26:25,404
Hi Michelle, thanks for trusting me
with this information.
351
00:26:25,571 --> 00:26:29,699
I'm a Sacramento native and have been
investigating this case for years.
352
00:26:29,866 --> 00:26:32,202
Let's talk.
353
00:26:32,368 --> 00:26:36,831
I traveled to Sacramento to meet
a woman about whom I know very little,
354
00:26:36,998 --> 00:26:40,584
including the spelling
of her last name.
355
00:26:43,503 --> 00:26:46,548
The social worker operates
as a kind of gate keeper
356
00:26:46,715 --> 00:26:49,467
between investigators
and the board community.
357
00:26:49,634 --> 00:26:54,680
This irks some posters who accuse her
of hinting at confidential information
358
00:26:54,847 --> 00:26:57,599
but then shutting down
when asked to share.
359
00:26:57,766 --> 00:27:03,813
She greeted me in the parking lot
by waving her arms wildly overhead.
360
00:27:03,980 --> 00:27:05,690
I liked her right away.
361
00:27:06,691 --> 00:27:10,486
Well, we had been in communication.
I knew she was flying into Sacramento.
362
00:27:10,653 --> 00:27:14,781
And she was another civilian that
was interested in the movement.
363
00:27:14,948 --> 00:27:17,283
And we would drive around
to the crime scenes.
364
00:27:17,450 --> 00:27:22,288
I would take her to the areas.
And so, we drove around for hours.
365
00:27:22,455 --> 00:27:25,165
We're gonna go about five miles
from here.
366
00:27:25,332 --> 00:27:28,585
And I'm going to take you
to the first crime scenes first.
367
00:27:28,752 --> 00:27:33,673
Our language just immediately became
about the case facts
368
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,592
and about what we knew and what
this and what do you think of that.
369
00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:40,679
It was a language that nobody else
could've understood what we talke about
370
00:27:40,846 --> 00:27:44,558
unless you had that experience
or you were aware of the case.
371
00:27:44,725 --> 00:27:47,686
I just don't think it's gonna be
somebody that everybody thought,
372
00:27:47,852 --> 00:27:49,812
oh, that's the East Area Rapist.
373
00:27:49,979 --> 00:27:52,940
I think you're right because
he wasn't caught.
374
00:27:53,107 --> 00:27:56,068
I think it's gonna be somebody
that they go, "Really ?"
375
00:27:56,235 --> 00:27:59,780
Right. Right. Obviously,
he didn't stand out at the time.
376
00:27:59,946 --> 00:28:01,865
There's something about two women
getting together
377
00:28:02,032 --> 00:28:05,785
that have a common cause and a common
goal, and, you know, we're crusaders,
378
00:28:05,952 --> 00:28:08,162
we're warriors, we're on the path.
379
00:28:08,329 --> 00:28:12,166
That was the beginning
of a relationship.
380
00:28:12,333 --> 00:28:15,419
We'll remain lifelong friends forever.
381
00:28:22,675 --> 00:28:25,302
First, we're gonna head into
Rancho Cordova
382
00:28:25,469 --> 00:28:31,808
to his very early attacks,
number one and number three.
383
00:28:32,851 --> 00:28:36,646
Sacramento...
When you were growing up,
384
00:28:36,813 --> 00:28:38,189
did it seem to be a lot of people
who worked...
385
00:28:38,356 --> 00:28:40,941
- It was a cow town.
- Oh, okay.
386
00:28:41,108 --> 00:28:44,027
When you say a cow town, you mean
that there was the out-outlying farms ?
387
00:28:44,194 --> 00:28:45,946
Yeah, it was outlying farms and...
388
00:28:46,113 --> 00:28:48,156
- There's still a lot of like...
- It's still outlying.
389
00:28:48,323 --> 00:28:50,492
It's interesting 'cause coming from LA,
390
00:28:50,658 --> 00:28:53,369
you almost never see sort of
big open empty spaces.
391
00:28:53,536 --> 00:28:55,538
Driving around, it's like wow.
392
00:28:55,705 --> 00:28:58,248
We're entering
the Rancho Cordova realm.
393
00:28:58,415 --> 00:29:03,336
And I'm gonna take you right into
the heart of it all.
394
00:29:03,503 --> 00:29:06,256
This is where the first crime occurs.
395
00:29:08,132 --> 00:29:13,762
When you first are learning
about the case,
396
00:29:13,929 --> 00:29:19,851
you just want to get a feel
for where did these things happen,
397
00:29:20,018 --> 00:29:23,396
who were the players in this, and...
398
00:29:23,563 --> 00:29:26,023
Can you tell anything more about
this offender
399
00:29:26,190 --> 00:29:28,859
by going into the places he was in ?
400
00:29:29,026 --> 00:29:31,403
A few houses down on the right
is number three.
401
00:29:31,570 --> 00:29:33,655
Yeah, so these houses
are close together. Yeah.
402
00:29:33,822 --> 00:29:37,325
And I'll actually show you
number one's house.
403
00:29:37,492 --> 00:29:41,620
For Michelle, it's like I want to get
in this guy's mind,
404
00:29:41,787 --> 00:29:45,833
I want to go to these places,
I want to try to understand
405
00:29:46,917 --> 00:29:50,253
why this area
and why so close together.
406
00:29:50,420 --> 00:29:54,841
Was he from here ?
This is his hot spot.
407
00:29:56,384 --> 00:29:58,385
This is the house right here.
408
00:29:58,552 --> 00:30:02,848
He cut the phone lines, and
409
00:30:04,307 --> 00:30:07,769
raped her and left the scene.
410
00:30:07,936 --> 00:30:13,107
This was in June, June 18th, 1976
was this attack.
411
00:30:13,274 --> 00:30:18,070
And the attack we're going to
was in August, August 29th, '76.
412
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:22,198
So, we're pulling up to attack
number three right now.
413
00:30:22,365 --> 00:30:26,619
- That's how close he was.
-He had to be from around here.
414
00:30:26,786 --> 00:30:30,372
A 12-year-old saw a masked man
outside the window,
415
00:30:30,539 --> 00:30:32,332
ran, and woke her mother up.
416
00:30:32,499 --> 00:30:36,127
The mother ran to the kitchen
and dialed the operator.
417
00:30:36,294 --> 00:30:40,089
Moments later, EAR was standing
in the doorway with a club and a gun,
418
00:30:40,256 --> 00:30:45,094
naked from the waist down. He told
the mother, "Freeze or I'll kill you."
419
00:30:45,261 --> 00:30:48,805
The mother grabbed the gun band
as he approached her.
420
00:30:48,972 --> 00:30:51,558
He clubbed her until she lay
on the floor.
421
00:30:51,725 --> 00:30:55,019
A neighbor had seen EAR walking away
with no pants on
422
00:30:55,186 --> 00:30:57,313
but could not describe his face.
423
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,108
This is the second house in,
and if we drive to the corner house
424
00:31:01,275 --> 00:31:05,362
and if you just look on the fence line
right here through,
425
00:31:05,529 --> 00:31:12,577
this goes straight through to the
number one attack in June of '76.
426
00:31:12,743 --> 00:31:17,956
The neighbor also said that he was
hearing for a couple months prior
427
00:31:18,123 --> 00:31:20,333
people jumping over his fence.
428
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:25,380
It's my guess he was actually
429
00:31:25,546 --> 00:31:29,133
looking at these houses
long before he attacked.
430
00:31:30,384 --> 00:31:36,139
It's amazing to me that any one person
could get away with this many crimes.
431
00:31:36,306 --> 00:31:41,811
And you can just see how they're just
a stone's throw away from each other.
432
00:31:41,978 --> 00:31:44,105
And right down the fence line.
433
00:31:44,271 --> 00:31:47,024
But he wasn't walking on those kind of
fences, was he ?
434
00:31:47,191 --> 00:31:50,402
- He's said to have been walking them.
- Oh, wow.
435
00:31:57,784 --> 00:32:02,955
As Michelle was going up,
doing drive arounds of Sacramento,
436
00:32:03,122 --> 00:32:05,207
I saw her confidence growing.
437
00:32:05,374 --> 00:32:08,627
It was really exciting to have someone
who was...
438
00:32:08,793 --> 00:32:11,337
you're in love with someone
and they're doing something
439
00:32:11,504 --> 00:32:14,674
and you can see how excited
and energized they are about it,
440
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,634
and that makes you excited
and energized.
441
00:32:18,802 --> 00:32:24,849
I'm amazed I'm still funny. I'm amazed
I'm still funny. Because I'm in love.
442
00:32:25,016 --> 00:32:29,770
I'm in love. I'm in love. Yes, I am.
443
00:32:29,937 --> 00:32:33,607
And there is nothing, nothing ends
a comedian's career quicker
444
00:32:33,774 --> 00:32:38,361
than regular sex and being in love.
It's the worst thing on the planet.
445
00:32:38,528 --> 00:32:41,072
My girlfriend is obsessed with
true crime and serial killers too.
446
00:32:41,239 --> 00:32:45,284
All she does all day, watches FBI
Files, Forensics Files on TV.
447
00:32:45,451 --> 00:32:48,537
The most graphic, disturbing,
depressing shows.
448
00:32:48,704 --> 00:32:50,080
I walk in the house every single day,
449
00:32:50,247 --> 00:32:53,041
"The amount of semen found in the chest
cavity led investigators..."
450
00:32:53,208 --> 00:32:55,502
Oh my God !
451
00:32:56,669 --> 00:33:00,798
She's like, "Shh, it's the semen cavity
killer. I want see what's..."
452
00:33:04,551 --> 00:33:07,596
When I met Michelle was on...
453
00:33:09,014 --> 00:33:13,059
It was a show at the Largo.
I think it was May 20th.
454
00:33:14,227 --> 00:33:17,229
I had been doing "The King of Queens"
for five years,
455
00:33:17,396 --> 00:33:20,023
and I'd had a couple specials
at that point.
456
00:33:20,190 --> 00:33:22,818
But she wasn't that steeped
in the comedy scene,
457
00:33:22,984 --> 00:33:24,861
so she didn't know who I was.
458
00:33:25,028 --> 00:33:28,781
This guy was funny. More than funny.
459
00:33:28,948 --> 00:33:33,118
He was moody and startling,
but hilarious.
460
00:33:33,285 --> 00:33:36,455
He could move the crowd
with the tiniest of expressions.
461
00:33:36,622 --> 00:33:40,959
"Irish girls," he said, he knocked
the microphone against his forehead,
462
00:33:41,126 --> 00:33:43,169
"Irish girls are my kryptonite."
463
00:33:43,336 --> 00:33:46,380
And then I was just sitting at the bar
afterwards, and she was leaving,
464
00:33:46,547 --> 00:33:49,717
and she literally tapped me
and just went, "Irish women, nice."
465
00:33:49,883 --> 00:33:53,095
And she was so fucking like
steam roller gorgeous
466
00:33:53,261 --> 00:33:57,849
that I was just stunned, and I ran,
I literally ran down the street
467
00:33:58,016 --> 00:34:01,018
and went like, "Hey !" And then
the first word I ever said to her was,
468
00:34:01,185 --> 00:34:05,230
"Hey !," screaming.
And then she turned around, and I went,
469
00:34:05,397 --> 00:34:07,316
"I'm not going to play any fucking
games. I want your name and number
470
00:34:07,482 --> 00:34:09,526
so I can take you on a date
this weekend. Are you free ?"
471
00:34:09,693 --> 00:34:13,696
And she went, "Yeah."
I went, "Good, give me your number."
472
00:34:13,863 --> 00:34:16,699
It was just the most awkward,
473
00:34:16,866 --> 00:34:21,370
non-James Bond moment
I could have had.
474
00:34:27,834 --> 00:34:29,460
Take off my mask.
475
00:34:29,627 --> 00:34:34,090
Our first date in LA they show movies
at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery.
476
00:34:34,256 --> 00:34:37,759
So, we went and watched an Italian film
called "The Tenth Victim".
477
00:34:41,972 --> 00:34:45,350
Really goofy Italian
science fiction film.
478
00:34:45,516 --> 00:34:47,685
I was too nervous to really do
a lot of talking that night.
479
00:34:47,852 --> 00:34:50,437
She did way more of the talking 'cause
she just was...
480
00:34:50,604 --> 00:34:53,398
And the more we talked I'm like, "Oh
my God, she's so smart and so cool.
481
00:34:53,565 --> 00:34:54,941
I'm gonna screw this up."
482
00:34:59,612 --> 00:35:01,697
I remember I called her late at night
'cause I was up and I'm like,
483
00:35:01,864 --> 00:35:03,241
"The Creature
From the Black Lagoon is on."
484
00:35:03,407 --> 00:35:05,701
She goes, "I'm watching it.
It's one of my favorite movies."
485
00:35:05,868 --> 00:35:09,746
That was one of the things we bonded
over really early. We loved that.
486
00:35:09,913 --> 00:35:12,082
We loved many of the same things.
487
00:35:12,249 --> 00:35:16,461
Like "Creature From the Black Lagoon,"
tales of the grim and offbeat,
488
00:35:16,627 --> 00:35:19,463
and good food.
489
00:35:19,630 --> 00:35:22,716
I didn't like the way his comedian
friends, including him,
490
00:35:22,883 --> 00:35:25,886
seemed to tell jokes but never listen.
491
00:35:26,053 --> 00:35:33,351
He thought I was thin skinned. For
a while, it seemed it might not work.
492
00:35:33,517 --> 00:35:35,603
But one night,
he was saying goodbye to me,
493
00:35:35,770 --> 00:35:41,108
and he won me over with an adorable
Edward G. Robinson impression.
494
00:35:41,274 --> 00:35:45,361
And I was doing that, "Meh, see. Look
at the getaway sticks on that tomato."
495
00:35:45,528 --> 00:35:47,697
Like chatting her up
496
00:35:47,864 --> 00:35:51,617
but in that old kind of slang
and she thought that was so hilarious.
497
00:35:51,784 --> 00:35:54,703
I laughed and grabbed him.
498
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:56,747
"More," I said.
499
00:35:56,913 --> 00:35:59,874
"Look at the keister
on that hot number."
500
00:36:00,041 --> 00:36:04,128
Couples have in-jokes with each other,
and that became one of my...
501
00:36:04,295 --> 00:36:07,798
It was just all that '30's gangster
slang.
502
00:36:07,965 --> 00:36:11,468
However you wanna say it.
I can't, oh God.
503
00:36:12,677 --> 00:36:19,267
I wouldn't let him go. After a while,
we gave up and moved in together.
504
00:36:19,433 --> 00:36:24,563
I made this custom desk for her that
was in this kind of half-moon shape.
505
00:36:24,730 --> 00:36:28,108
Like I wanted her to have
like this command center.
506
00:36:28,275 --> 00:36:31,027
I've never tired
of the Robinson impression.
507
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,238
I've never tired of Patton.
508
00:36:36,741 --> 00:36:39,827
Michelle knew that she was marrying
a famous person,
509
00:36:39,993 --> 00:36:45,206
and as much as lived a life that a lot
of people might fantasize about,
510
00:36:45,373 --> 00:36:48,543
none of that mattered to her.
And I mean really.
511
00:36:50,211 --> 00:36:55,799
She was a regular salt of the earth
Midwestern gal.
512
00:36:55,966 --> 00:36:58,301
And she didn't want to be
anything else.
513
00:36:58,468 --> 00:37:01,971
The whole being photographed
and going to premieres and stuff.
514
00:37:02,138 --> 00:37:05,224
That meant nothing to her.
515
00:37:05,391 --> 00:37:07,101
Especially if you're someone
who's thinking,
516
00:37:07,268 --> 00:37:09,937
"I want to go home and write later,
I want to get up tomorrow and write."
517
00:37:10,104 --> 00:37:14,232
One of her favorite things in the world
was to be in her room
518
00:37:14,399 --> 00:37:17,986
under the covers with a fan reading.
519
00:37:18,152 --> 00:37:20,113
- Do you want Patton alone ?
- Do you want to leave ?
520
00:37:20,279 --> 00:37:22,114
Yes, I do.
521
00:37:22,281 --> 00:37:23,741
She went to the Oscars.
She went to the Grammys.
522
00:37:23,908 --> 00:37:28,328
We just always giggled about it. It was
so different from how we grew up.
523
00:37:28,495 --> 00:37:30,247
She usually would wear black
and she would joke
524
00:37:30,413 --> 00:37:33,583
that they would think
she was like a PR person.
525
00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:35,543
She was just an introvert, that's all.
526
00:37:35,710 --> 00:37:40,714
She was really good at making herself
a fly on the wall and inconspicuous.
527
00:37:40,881 --> 00:37:43,091
I think it's one of the reasons
she had incredible insight into people.
528
00:37:43,258 --> 00:37:46,803
She listened, she watched, she didn't
need to be the center of attention.
529
00:37:46,970 --> 00:37:48,680
She didn't want to be.
530
00:37:48,846 --> 00:37:51,557
I think she'd always been
sort of singled out as
531
00:37:51,724 --> 00:37:55,561
you're a terrific writer,
and then she got to LA where
532
00:37:55,728 --> 00:37:58,897
there's a gazillion people trying to do
the same thing
533
00:37:59,064 --> 00:38:01,566
and that was hard for her.
She hadn't experienced
534
00:38:01,733 --> 00:38:06,487
that degree of consistent rejection
and failure and disappointment.
535
00:38:06,654 --> 00:38:10,908
Her ultimate dream was always
to write books or for the New Yorker.
536
00:38:11,075 --> 00:38:15,328
She also really, really wanted a child.
537
00:38:18,414 --> 00:38:21,375
Four years after we got married,
our daughter was born.
538
00:38:21,542 --> 00:38:23,294
Alice. Hi.
539
00:38:24,879 --> 00:38:26,255
Hi.
540
00:38:26,422 --> 00:38:28,048
It was so amazing.
541
00:38:28,215 --> 00:38:30,217
Look at her...
542
00:38:33,887 --> 00:38:35,471
Oh, Alice.
543
00:38:37,765 --> 00:38:40,935
I think Alice was about two or three
544
00:38:41,101 --> 00:38:47,065
when Michelle was meticulously, due
diligence researching about EAR/ONS.
545
00:38:47,232 --> 00:38:51,611
In Sacramento,
the air is immediately better.
546
00:38:51,778 --> 00:38:55,531
Struck by the big open spaces.
547
00:38:55,698 --> 00:38:58,617
A little over half a million,
or about half a million people,
548
00:38:58,784 --> 00:39:03,038
but it feels, coming from Los Angeles,
it feels so much smaller.
549
00:39:08,501 --> 00:39:11,712
- How are you doing in here ?
- I'm good.
550
00:39:12,963 --> 00:39:15,549
I might have... okay, this is crazy,
can I have one more latte ?
551
00:39:15,716 --> 00:39:18,927
Of course. You got it.
552
00:39:19,094 --> 00:39:23,264
- But this was really yummy.
- Good.
553
00:39:24,307 --> 00:39:26,600
When Michelle interviewed me,
554
00:39:26,767 --> 00:39:33,898
we met for breakfast down at the
Citizen Hotel in downtown Sacramento.
555
00:39:34,065 --> 00:39:36,442
Talking about the attack is difficult,
556
00:39:36,609 --> 00:39:41,947
but Michelle,
she was so serious about the case.
557
00:39:42,114 --> 00:39:45,409
She was just the easiest person
to talk to.
558
00:39:45,576 --> 00:39:50,413
So, I'm from suburban Chicago,
so all of this is so foreign to me.
559
00:39:50,580 --> 00:39:54,542
But I'm trying to get back
into sort of the mindset.
560
00:39:54,709 --> 00:39:58,254
A lot of people will say that
561
00:39:59,421 --> 00:40:04,884
the E-A-R crimes, crime period,
562
00:40:05,051 --> 00:40:08,930
was kind of the end
of innocence for Sacramento.
563
00:40:16,895 --> 00:40:21,357
We have the confluence of the American
and Sacramento rivers.
564
00:40:21,524 --> 00:40:24,402
It was built up
being a commerce center,
565
00:40:24,569 --> 00:40:26,529
and it became the state capital.
566
00:40:26,696 --> 00:40:31,491
We had both Mather Field
and McClellan Air Base.
567
00:40:31,658 --> 00:40:37,622
So, military was a big aspect of the
economy and the people who lived here.
568
00:40:37,789 --> 00:40:40,666
Back in those days, you did know more
of your neighbors,
569
00:40:40,833 --> 00:40:46,421
people didn't lock all their doors or
their cars necessarily all the time.
570
00:40:46,588 --> 00:40:51,009
And terrible crime was just
571
00:40:51,176 --> 00:40:53,386
not that common.
572
00:40:56,555 --> 00:41:01,435
'70's Sacramento, being a cop
was like a cop anywhere else.
573
00:41:01,602 --> 00:41:05,438
It was pretty slow.
And then June comes along,
574
00:41:05,605 --> 00:41:10,526
and you got this pervert later known
as the East Area Rapist.
575
00:41:10,693 --> 00:41:15,739
I responded to a home invasion, a rape,
in 1976, October 5th.
576
00:41:15,906 --> 00:41:18,700
Jane Carson on Wood Parkway.
577
00:41:18,867 --> 00:41:23,037
At the time, the East Area rape cases
started, I was working Homicide.
578
00:41:23,204 --> 00:41:26,249
And I think it was the fifth case I was
called to the scene on,
579
00:41:26,415 --> 00:41:28,751
which was Jane Carson.
580
00:41:28,918 --> 00:41:32,421
I understand the feelings that
you're going through and wondering
581
00:41:32,588 --> 00:41:35,757
whether you did the right thing
or whether you did the wrong thing,
582
00:41:35,924 --> 00:41:38,343
and could you have done anything
any differently ?
583
00:41:38,510 --> 00:41:41,971
And I think you handled the situation
very well.
584
00:41:42,138 --> 00:41:45,975
Well, I had thought of kicking him,
but it would have been useless
585
00:41:46,141 --> 00:41:49,936
as my hands were tied and I was
blindfolded and my child was with me.
586
00:41:51,688 --> 00:41:56,609
When the husband left for work, the
rapist was in their house and on her.
587
00:41:56,776 --> 00:42:00,821
He knew down to the minute
what was going on in Jane's house
588
00:42:00,988 --> 00:42:02,865
and the neighborhood.
589
00:42:03,031 --> 00:42:06,660
When I left there, I was convinced this
probably wasn't just a routine rape.
590
00:42:06,826 --> 00:42:10,955
In fact, I know it wasn't.
And then I started digging in deeper.
591
00:42:11,122 --> 00:42:13,541
In the meantime, we have a couple more
rapes and at that point,
592
00:42:13,708 --> 00:42:18,253
there's no question we had a serial
rapist. He had a definite pattern.
593
00:42:18,420 --> 00:42:21,506
When we realized that we first had
a series going,
594
00:42:21,673 --> 00:42:24,425
the sheriff did not want the media
to be aware of it.
595
00:42:24,592 --> 00:42:26,677
Because we didn't have anything.
596
00:42:26,844 --> 00:42:29,513
Because of what was happening
within the rapes,
597
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,267
he didn't want the word to get out to
make fear in the community.
598
00:42:33,434 --> 00:42:35,811
We just weren't ready to handle
anything coming in
599
00:42:35,977 --> 00:42:38,772
and we didn't have
that many people working it.
600
00:42:40,064 --> 00:42:41,691
This is attack number eight
601
00:42:41,858 --> 00:42:44,860
and this victim was accosted
outside of her house,
602
00:42:45,027 --> 00:42:48,030
as she drove her car into the driveway.
603
00:42:48,197 --> 00:42:52,325
She was taken into the backyard
of her neighbor's house
604
00:42:52,492 --> 00:42:57,246
and there were strips of cloth
already laid out for ligatures.
605
00:42:57,413 --> 00:43:01,750
Her ankles were tied with cord.
She was blindfolded, gagged.
606
00:43:01,917 --> 00:43:05,796
Jingling her car keys, the EAR said
he'd be back in five minutes.
607
00:43:05,963 --> 00:43:10,967
Car was reportedly found in the area
with the dog locked in the trunk.
608
00:43:11,134 --> 00:43:13,678
The media became aware of it.
The Sheriff said,
609
00:43:13,845 --> 00:43:16,764
"Please don't print anything,
we're gonna catch this guy."
610
00:43:16,931 --> 00:43:21,143
And then as time went on and we didn't
catch the guy, the media said,
611
00:43:21,310 --> 00:43:23,562
"Okay, we're gonna start printing."
612
00:43:23,728 --> 00:43:27,273
That was when the whole community
was brought in.
613
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,610
What happened right after number eight
on 11/3/76,
614
00:43:31,777 --> 00:43:36,156
the rape series came to light during
this meeting on crime prevention.
615
00:43:36,323 --> 00:43:38,617
There were 500 people in attendance.
616
00:43:38,783 --> 00:43:40,326
You can use a simple alarm system.
617
00:43:40,493 --> 00:43:43,371
Mount a bell device
on the outside of your home.
618
00:43:43,538 --> 00:43:49,084
String some wires to a power source,
and then string the other set of wires
619
00:43:49,251 --> 00:43:52,295
right to a nightstand
and have a toggle switch there.
620
00:43:52,462 --> 00:43:56,091
If you ever hear the glass breaking,
reach over on your nightstand,
621
00:43:56,257 --> 00:43:59,969
and flip the switch,
the bell goes off on the outside.
622
00:44:00,136 --> 00:44:01,679
Other than by word of mouth
623
00:44:01,846 --> 00:44:05,015
where people might be talking about
a neighbor that had been raped,
624
00:44:05,182 --> 00:44:08,768
there wasn't a lot of information
until this time.
625
00:44:08,935 --> 00:44:11,146
On 11/4/76,
626
00:44:11,312 --> 00:44:16,442
the first newspaper article on the EAR
appears in the Sacramento Bee.
627
00:44:16,609 --> 00:44:18,194
Warren Holloway was a reporter.
628
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,946
I put a little one paragraph note
out to the detectives,
629
00:44:21,113 --> 00:44:23,740
"Got a rape series going
in the East Area."
630
00:44:23,907 --> 00:44:26,034
And he walked out, he saw that.
The next day on the newspaper
631
00:44:26,201 --> 00:44:27,869
"East Area Rapist."
632
00:44:28,036 --> 00:44:30,705
It just got picked up and there it was,
"East Area Rapist."
633
00:44:30,872 --> 00:44:33,249
Three weeks after attack number eight,
634
00:44:33,415 --> 00:44:37,044
where it was announced there was
a town hall meeting in Rancho Cordova,
635
00:44:37,211 --> 00:44:41,798
of the 35 that attended,
only one of those was a male.
636
00:44:43,007 --> 00:44:46,802
Following two weeks later, "Publicity
May Have Curtailed Rapist,"
637
00:44:46,969 --> 00:44:51,932
is written in the Sacramento Bee.
Then he has his tenth attack.
638
00:44:54,059 --> 00:44:56,436
A lot of people don't realize this,
639
00:44:56,603 --> 00:45:01,065
but six rapes in Sacramento
out of the first ten,
640
00:45:02,525 --> 00:45:07,488
six of them were teenagers.
And two of them were 15 years old.
641
00:45:22,292 --> 00:45:26,463
This one here is probably
Christmas day.
642
00:45:26,630 --> 00:45:29,299
So, it would be a week
after it happened.
643
00:45:37,097 --> 00:45:42,602
It was December 18th. There was
a high school dance and I had a cold,
644
00:45:42,769 --> 00:45:46,481
so at the last minute,
I decided to stay at home.
645
00:45:46,647 --> 00:45:51,277
My parents were going to a Christmas
party, and my sister was at work.
646
00:45:52,653 --> 00:45:55,322
My parents left probably around
6:30ish.
647
00:45:55,489 --> 00:45:58,116
And I think I put a pizza in the oven.
648
00:45:58,283 --> 00:46:03,329
I remember having my slippers on,
and I decided to go play the piano.
649
00:46:10,002 --> 00:46:12,754
I heard a noise,
650
00:46:12,921 --> 00:46:16,507
but at 15 years old,
you always hear noises in your house
651
00:46:16,674 --> 00:46:19,885
when your parents aren't home.
So, I didn't think much of it.
652
00:46:20,052 --> 00:46:25,015
I stopped. I do remember stopping
and listening and...
653
00:46:27,767 --> 00:46:31,771
I didn't hear anything else,
so I continued to play.
654
00:46:34,732 --> 00:46:39,153
It wasn't very much longer, maybe
a couple minutes, that I felt
655
00:46:41,196 --> 00:46:44,783
a presence next to me,
656
00:46:44,949 --> 00:46:47,660
and I looked up, and
657
00:46:48,744 --> 00:46:51,122
then I felt a knife at my throat.
658
00:46:57,961 --> 00:47:00,380
And then he told me in my ear,
659
00:47:00,547 --> 00:47:05,301
"If you scream or move, I will put
this knife through your throat.
660
00:47:05,468 --> 00:47:07,094
And I'll be gone in the dark."
661
00:47:11,973 --> 00:47:16,853
He moved me down the hallway, through
the garage, and into the backyard.
662
00:47:21,524 --> 00:47:24,360
Where I was left out in a...
663
00:47:25,444 --> 00:47:29,030
on a picnic bench
while he went back into the house,
664
00:47:29,197 --> 00:47:33,368
and he told me he'd be watching me
every 10 seconds.
665
00:47:36,954 --> 00:47:42,459
He came back outside, and that is
where he cut my clothes off.
666
00:47:47,839 --> 00:47:50,049
He would bring me inside
667
00:47:50,216 --> 00:47:53,594
and he would rape me,
take me back outside,
668
00:47:53,761 --> 00:47:57,180
inside, rape me again, back outside,
669
00:47:57,347 --> 00:47:59,683
and then another time.
670
00:48:01,059 --> 00:48:07,273
Yeah. So that
was my first memory of that.
671
00:48:18,074 --> 00:48:23,287
I think during that time though
there wasn't a lot of feeling going on.
672
00:48:23,454 --> 00:48:27,583
I was pretty numb and...
673
00:48:27,749 --> 00:48:30,877
But what I do remember is he had moved
the couch
674
00:48:32,379 --> 00:48:34,380
very close to our fireplace.
675
00:48:34,547 --> 00:48:38,592
But because I was blindfolded
and couldn't see,
676
00:48:38,759 --> 00:48:42,888
I thought he had caught our couch
on fire.
677
00:48:44,222 --> 00:48:47,142
And I think that was probably...
678
00:48:48,309 --> 00:48:52,605
That was really scary,
because I thought I was going to die.
679
00:48:55,774 --> 00:48:57,818
And then he was gone.
680
00:49:03,615 --> 00:49:07,535
I stopped playing the piano
shortly after the attack.
681
00:49:09,286 --> 00:49:12,289
It was difficult for me to play
682
00:49:12,456 --> 00:49:18,628
because I always felt like
there was somebody behind me.
683
00:49:21,631 --> 00:49:23,674
It was just a few hours.
684
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,969
But it changed everything.
685
00:49:28,178 --> 00:49:31,598
It had been a month since he last
struck, but he has struck again.
686
00:49:31,765 --> 00:49:34,267
This time it was a 15-year-old girl.
687
00:49:34,434 --> 00:49:37,103
Again, it was in a Northeast Sacramento
neighborhood.
688
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:39,105
Again, he knew she was alone,
689
00:49:39,271 --> 00:49:41,732
forced his way in using a knife
to threaten her,
690
00:49:41,899 --> 00:49:44,193
and raped her repeatedly
for several hours
691
00:49:44,359 --> 00:49:46,862
and forced her to perform
perverted sex acts.
692
00:49:47,028 --> 00:49:49,155
The latest victim was younger
than the others,
693
00:49:49,322 --> 00:49:51,282
and the attack took place early
in the evening
694
00:49:51,449 --> 00:49:54,577
where the others took place between
11 at night and dawn.
695
00:49:54,744 --> 00:49:59,915
But it definitely was the same rapist
who eluded authorities for over a year.
696
00:50:04,586 --> 00:50:06,754
When Michelle and I talked about
this story,
697
00:50:06,921 --> 00:50:10,591
it was one of those things you keep
thinking about and keep thinking about.
698
00:50:10,758 --> 00:50:13,969
Michelle had already done
an incredible amount of research.
699
00:50:14,136 --> 00:50:18,056
And I remember thinking,
"Okay, we've got a few hurdles."
700
00:50:18,223 --> 00:50:20,391
I have to pitch this
to my editor-in-chief.
701
00:50:20,558 --> 00:50:24,353
Everyone loves a story about a killer,
but in order to get her interested,
702
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:28,023
I had to convince her that this story
was relevant now
703
00:50:28,190 --> 00:50:32,069
and that it was like a Los Angeles
and a California story.
704
00:50:32,235 --> 00:50:34,612
Michelle was an incredible,
intrepid reporter.
705
00:50:34,779 --> 00:50:36,864
And so, as we were sort of trying to
put the pitch together,
706
00:50:37,031 --> 00:50:39,742
she would go on her own
and just research things.
707
00:50:39,909 --> 00:50:42,203
You could be completely confident
that she was going to come back
708
00:50:42,369 --> 00:50:44,204
with something, something good,
709
00:50:44,371 --> 00:50:46,623
and not just get the facts right
but also be able
710
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:50,126
to have that relationship
with that person she would need
711
00:50:50,293 --> 00:50:52,879
that no one else could get to.
712
00:50:56,716 --> 00:50:59,718
I pitched L.A. Magazine the EAR story,
713
00:50:59,885 --> 00:51:03,180
and they're interested in doing it
possibly, which would be amazing.
714
00:51:03,346 --> 00:51:07,141
That would be, like, the kind
of publicity that you can't buy.
715
00:51:07,308 --> 00:51:10,061
I just think this story
is so important to be told.
716
00:51:10,228 --> 00:51:14,815
I just feel like he's smirking
somewhere going, like,
717
00:51:14,982 --> 00:51:17,359
"I don't have to pay for this ever."
718
00:51:17,526 --> 00:51:22,447
If there's any way I could look
at whatever you have
719
00:51:22,614 --> 00:51:25,324
and I won't copy anything,
I just look at it and take notes
720
00:51:25,491 --> 00:51:27,118
and then give it back to you tomorrow,
721
00:51:27,284 --> 00:51:30,162
at least then I can say
I saw case files.
722
00:51:30,329 --> 00:51:35,375
Can I let you while you're here
look at some stuff ?
723
00:51:37,544 --> 00:51:40,338
Because I've sworn confidentiality
724
00:51:40,505 --> 00:51:44,633
that I would never release it
out of my possession.
725
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,470
Right. So I can sit there...
726
00:51:48,637 --> 00:51:52,432
You can sit there and go through them.
I just can't let them leave my home.
727
00:51:52,599 --> 00:51:55,726
How many pages are there
all together like ?
728
00:51:55,893 --> 00:51:57,937
- Probably four or five thousand.
- Oh my god.
729
00:51:58,104 --> 00:51:59,480
- Yeah, it's big.
- Yeah.
730
00:51:59,647 --> 00:52:03,400
It's all the rapes.
It's all 50 rapes.
731
00:52:05,569 --> 00:52:07,195
I should make a trade with you today.
732
00:52:07,362 --> 00:52:11,324
You let me take this today
and I'll let you take the cases today.
733
00:52:11,491 --> 00:52:13,117
-And then we give them back.
-And then we give them back.
734
00:52:13,284 --> 00:52:15,911
I would do that,
but we have to give them back.
735
00:52:16,078 --> 00:52:18,455
I can't believe I'm doing this.
736
00:52:18,622 --> 00:52:19,998
These underground trades,
737
00:52:20,165 --> 00:52:23,376
the result of furtive alliances forged
from a shared obsession
738
00:52:23,543 --> 00:52:26,546
with a faceless serial killer
were common.
739
00:52:26,712 --> 00:52:31,008
Online sleuths, retired detectives,
and active detectives,
740
00:52:31,175 --> 00:52:33,177
everyone participated.
741
00:52:37,138 --> 00:52:40,808
DUDE. I got my hands on 4,000 pages
of police reports.
742
00:52:40,975 --> 00:52:44,186
Case files of rapes 1-50.
DYING.
743
00:52:50,233 --> 00:52:51,943
The grandiose seeker in me
744
00:52:52,110 --> 00:52:56,072
couldn't wait to insert the flash drive
into my laptop back at my hotel.
745
00:52:57,907 --> 00:53:01,619
At every stoplight I touched
the top pocket in my backpack
746
00:53:01,785 --> 00:53:04,705
to make sure
the tiny rectangle was still there.
747
00:53:09,375 --> 00:53:14,672
Once in my room, I immediately changed
into the crisp white hotel bathrobe.
748
00:53:14,839 --> 00:53:18,092
I lowered the shades
and turned off my phone.
749
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,179
I dumped a bag of mini-bar gummy bears
into a glass
750
00:53:22,345 --> 00:53:27,391
and set it next to me on the bed where I
sat cross legged in front of my laptop.
751
00:53:29,685 --> 00:53:35,357
Ahead of me was a rare 24-hour stretch
without interference or distraction.
752
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,487
No tiny hands, slicked with paint,
asking to be washed.
753
00:53:40,653 --> 00:53:44,573
No preoccupied hungry husband
to inquire about dinner.
754
00:53:45,991 --> 00:53:48,327
I inserted the flash drive.
755
00:53:48,494 --> 00:53:50,996
My mind in mail sorter mode,
756
00:53:51,163 --> 00:53:54,332
my index finger
on the down arrow key.
757
00:53:54,499 --> 00:53:57,877
I began to not so much read as devour.
758
00:54:02,214 --> 00:54:04,925
Drainage ditches
and cement lined canals
759
00:54:05,092 --> 00:54:08,595
come up frequently
in the police reports.
760
00:54:10,013 --> 00:54:11,556
It's clear from the start,
761
00:54:11,723 --> 00:54:15,059
from footprints, evidence,
suspicious sightings,
762
00:54:15,226 --> 00:54:18,020
and even bringing one victim
down there,
763
00:54:18,187 --> 00:54:23,942
that the East Area Rapist traveled this
way, like a subterranean creature.
764
00:54:24,985 --> 00:54:26,736
He was doing reconnaissance.
765
00:54:26,903 --> 00:54:29,489
He was studying people.
766
00:54:29,655 --> 00:54:31,741
Learning when they were home.
767
00:54:32,992 --> 00:54:35,452
That means that women exist who,
768
00:54:35,619 --> 00:54:40,415
because of change of schedule or luck,
were never victims.
769
00:54:40,582 --> 00:54:45,044
But they felt something terrifying
brush against them.
770
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,718
Hours vanished,
the gummy bears were gone.
771
00:54:54,928 --> 00:54:57,764
I was jittery from sugar, hunger,
772
00:54:57,931 --> 00:55:00,641
and spending too much time alone
in the dark
773
00:55:00,808 --> 00:55:03,561
absorbing a 50-chapter horror story.
774
00:55:09,274 --> 00:55:11,359
Part of the thrill of the game for him
I believe
775
00:55:11,526 --> 00:55:16,447
was a kind of connect the dots puzzle
he played with people.
776
00:55:16,614 --> 00:55:21,285
You may not think you have something
in common with your neighbor,
777
00:55:21,452 --> 00:55:23,620
but you do.
778
00:55:23,787 --> 00:55:25,538
Me.
779
00:55:28,291 --> 00:55:30,960
Hi Michelle,
just spoke with the LA Mag editor.
780
00:55:31,127 --> 00:55:33,045
It's official. It's a green light.
70239