All language subtitles for Very Scary People - 2x08_track1_eng

These two young ladies in
berkeley, off ashby avenue. And

berkeley, off ashby avenue. And
they're hitchhiking, a couple

they're hitchhiking, a couple
of real experts. I want to see

of real experts. I want to see
how together I am, if I can

how together I am, if I can
resist this temptation. I'm

resist this temptation. I'm
trying to show you just how

trying to show you just how
awful this got, how commanding

awful this got, how commanding
these rages got. People weren't

these rages got. People weren't
even aware of what was

even aware of what was
happening. >> welcome to "very

happening. >> welcome to "very
scary people." I'm donnie

scary people." I'm donnie
wahlberg. Edmund kemper's goal

wahlberg. Edmund kemper's goal
in life was to be a police

in life was to be a police
officer. But he failed the

officer. But he failed the
height requirement. At 6'9", he

height requirement. At 6'9", he
was considered too tall. Now he

was considered too tall. Now he
had a new objective. He was a

had a new objective. He was a
one-man killing machine. Kemper

one-man killing machine. Kemper
had already murdered six women

had already murdered six women
hitchhikers, but he wasn't

hitchhikers, but he wasn't
done. And no one felt safe. His

done. And no one felt safe. His
true identity was a mystery,

true identity was a mystery,
but he was known as the "coed

but he was known as the "coed
killer." he cruised the streets

killer." he cruised the streets
of santa cruz, california,

of santa cruz, california,
thinking of murder all day

thinking of murder all day
long. >> it's the age of

long. >> it's the age of
aquarius. There's a lot of

aquarius. There's a lot of
peace and love in the air. And

peace and love in the air. And
then, suddenly, this was

then, suddenly, this was
shattered. >> one day, several

shattered. >> one day, several
body parts showed up right on

body parts showed up right on
the beach, the main beach in

the beach, the main beach in
santa cruz. >> and cut-up

santa cruz. >> and cut-up
bodies were found around town.

Bodies were found around town.
>> some were being found on the

>> some were being found on the
side of the roads. >> the

side of the roads. >> the
bodies were discovered last

bodies were discovered last
week on eden canyon road. Both

week on eden canyon road. Both
girls had been decapitated, and

girls had been decapitated, and
the hands from one body had

the hands from one body had
been cut off. >> it wasn't long

been cut off. >> it wasn't long
before police realize that all

before police realize that all
of these remains belong to

of these remains belong to
young women, coeds, who had

young women, coeds, who had
last been seen hitchhiking. >>

last been seen hitchhiking. >>
at the time, I wanted my case

at the time, I wanted my case
to look like random killings,

to look like random killings,
unrelated. >> the man

unrelated. >> the man
responsible was edmund kemper,

responsible was edmund kemper,
who was in the middle of a

who was in the middle of a
killing spree which started

killing spree which started
after he killed his first two

after he killed his first two
hitchhikers. They were two

hitchhikers. They were two
18-year-old college students,

18-year-old college students,
anita luchessa and mary anne

anita luchessa and mary anne
pesce. >> in the first killing,

pesce. >> in the first killing,
in may of'72, it was something

in may of'72, it was something
that had been thought out in

that had been thought out in
fantasy, acted out, felt out

fantasy, acted out, felt out
hundreds of times before it

hundreds of times before it
ever happened. I'm driving

ever happened. I'm driving
along, we go to a vulnerable

along, we go to a vulnerable
place where there aren't people

place where there aren't people
watching. >> he attacks the

watching. >> he attacks the
young women, but they're no

young women, but they're no
match for him. >> and I kept on

match for him. >> and I kept on
just mindlessly attacking. >>

just mindlessly attacking. >>
he stabs them to death in this

he stabs them to death in this
frantic scene. And after that,

frantic scene. And after that,
there was no stopping him. >>

there was no stopping him. >>
in reality, we really had no

in reality, we really had no
suspects. >> we kind of figured

suspects. >> we kind of figured
that maybe it's somebody who

that maybe it's somebody who
had just gotten out of state

had just gotten out of state
prison, maybe. Maybe somebody

prison, maybe. Maybe somebody
with some mental issues. >>

with some mental issues. >>
little did the police know that

little did the police know that
ed kemper was operating right

ed kemper was operating right
under their noses. In fact,

under their noses. In fact,
many of them knew him. >> ed's

many of them knew him. >> ed's
story in santa cruz focuses on

story in santa cruz focuses on
a place called the jury room.

A place called the jury room.
The jury room was where

the jury room was where
off-duty cops hung out. >> and

off-duty cops hung out. >> and
kemper also went there quite

kemper also went there quite
often. >> he's accepted by the

often. >> he's accepted by the
police. He starts to be a very

police. He starts to be a very
well-known personage there.

Well-known personage there.
They give him a nickname. They

they give him a nickname. They
call him "big ed." they never

call him "big ed." they never
would have suspected, in a

would have suspected, in a
million years, big ed was

million years, big ed was
killing these coeds. >> and

killing these coeds. >> and
they had no idea who this guy

they had no idea who this guy
really was. And ed kemper, he

really was. And ed kemper, he
was a man with a dark history.

Was a man with a dark history.
>> when kemper was a

>> when kemper was a
15-year-old, he had killed his

15-year-old, he had killed his
grandmother and then later

grandmother and then later
killed his grandfather the same

killed his grandfather the same
day. >> kemper is admitted to

day. >> kemper is admitted to
atascadero state hospital, a

atascadero state hospital, a
hospital for the criminally

hospital for the criminally
insane. But he was a master

insane. But he was a master
manipulator all of his life. He

manipulator all of his life. He
was able to fake his way out of

was able to fake his way out of
the hospital as being cured. >>

the hospital as being cured. >>
and then he came to santa cruz

and then he came to santa cruz
because his mother lived there.

Because his mother lived there.
>> he had hated his mother

>> he had hated his mother
since he was a kid, and it

since he was a kid, and it
wasn't long after he moved back

wasn't long after he moved back
in that all [bleep] broke

in that all [bleep] broke
loose. >> by February of 1973,

loose. >> by February of 1973,
ed kemper had killed six coeds,

ed kemper had killed six coeds,
but he was reaching a breaking

but he was reaching a breaking
point. >> one day, out of the

point. >> one day, out of the
blue, in the middle of the

blue, in the middle of the
night, the santa cruz police

night, the santa cruz police
department gets a collect call

department gets a collect call
from pueblo, colorado, wanting

from pueblo, colorado, wanting
to talk to this particular

to talk to this particular
lieutenant in the police

lieutenant in the police
department. And the desk

department. And the desk
officer says, "no, I can't call

officer says, "no, I can't call
him to wake him up, so you'll

him to wake him up, so you'll
have to call back after 8:00."

have to call back after 8:00."
>> the caller said he had

>> the caller said he had
killed his mother in santa cruz

killed his mother in santa cruz
the day before and he had

the day before and he had
driven all the way to colorado

driven all the way to colorado
before deciding to turn himself

before deciding to turn himself
in. The cop on the phone

in. The cop on the phone
doesn't believe him. He think

doesn't believe him. He think
he's making a joke or having a

he's making a joke or having a
laugh. >> but then the caller

laugh. >> but then the caller
says something startling. He

says something startling. He
claims to be the coed killer.

Claims to be the coed killer.
>> the policeman didn't

>> the policeman didn't
understand what he was saying

understand what he was saying
and ended up actually hanging

and ended up actually hanging
up on him. >> he actually has

up on him. >> he actually has
to call back the department a

to call back the department a
couple of times, saying, "I did

couple of times, saying, "I did
it, I did it, " before they

it, I did it, " before they
finally believe him and

finally believe him and
actually tell him, "wait in

actually tell him, "wait in
your car. Local cops are gonna

your car. Local cops are gonna
come get you, and then we'll be

come get you, and then we'll be
out to talk to you after that."

out to talk to you after that."
he sits and he waits. >> he was

he sits and he waits. >> he was
still in the phone booth when

still in the phone booth when
the pueblo police officers came

the pueblo police officers came
and arrested him. >> the man

and arrested him. >> the man
who claimed to be the coed

who claimed to be the coed
killer, edmund kemper, was now

killer, edmund kemper, was now
in police custody. >> I was at

in police custody. >> I was at
home. About 5:00 in the morning,

home. About 5:00 in the morning,
I got a phone call from santa

I got a phone call from santa
cruz police department. They

cruz police department. They
told me that ed kemper was on

told me that ed kemper was on
the phone and he was confessing

the phone and he was confessing
to doing all of these coed

to doing all of these coed
murders and that he had also

murders and that he had also
killed his mother and best

killed his mother and best
friend. As I'm standing there

friend. As I'm standing there
on the telephone with santa

on the telephone with santa
cruz police department, I could

cruz police department, I could
actually feel the blood drain

actually feel the blood drain
out of my body almost. I just

out of my body almost. I just
turned cold all over. Kemper

turned cold all over. Kemper
suggested that I go to his

suggested that I go to his
house because I had been there

house because I had been there
before. I was familiar with

before. I was familiar with
where his mother's apartment

where his mother's apartment
was from when I went to

was from when I went to
confiscate the gun. We went

confiscate the gun. We went
around to the back of the

around to the back of the
apartment and broke a window in

apartment and broke a window in
the kitchen. If you've ever

the kitchen. If you've ever
smelled death, you know that

smelled death, you know that
that's what was going on in

that's what was going on in
that apartment. As soon as you

that apartment. As soon as you
walk in, that smell just hit

walk in, that smell just hit
you. We went through the

you. We went through the
apartment real quickly and got

apartment real quickly and got
to the closet in his mother's

to the closet in his mother's
room and pulled the closet door

room and pulled the closet door
back, and there was a pile

back, and there was a pile
there that was covered with a

there that was covered with a
sheet. And so we pulled the

sheet. And so we pulled the
sheet back, and we saw human

sheet back, and we saw human
remains. >> they discovered the

remains. >> they discovered the
bodies of his mother and her

bodies of his mother and her
friend. >> this morning, about

friend. >> this morning, about
5:30, county sheriff's

5:30, county sheriff's
investigators found the bodies

investigators found the bodies
of two women, one of them

of two women, one of them
decapitated and her right hand

decapitated and her right hand
cut off. The bodies were found

cut off. The bodies were found
in closets in the apartment

in closets in the apartment
home of one of the victims. The

home of one of the victims. The
son of that victim called santa

son of that victim called santa
cruz police from pueblo,

cruz police from pueblo,
colorado, this morning and told

colorado, this morning and told
them about the murders. That

them about the murders. That
call came from 24-year-old

call came from 24-year-old
edmund emil kemper, who lived

edmund emil kemper, who lived
at the address where the murder

at the address where the murder
victims were discovered. Kemper

victims were discovered. Kemper
was arrested in a pueblo phone

was arrested in a pueblo phone
booth. >> a few hours later,

booth. >> a few hours later,
I'm in my office on the

I'm in my office on the
telephone with pueblo,

telephone with pueblo,
colorado. And peter chang, who

colorado. And peter chang, who
was the district attorney at

was the district attorney at
the time, walked in. He says,

the time, walked in. He says,
"do you know this guy kemper? "

"do you know this guy kemper? "
and I said, "I met him once

and I said, "I met him once
when I took the gun away from

when I took the gun away from
him." and he says, "do you

him." and he says, "do you
think you have a pretty good

think you have a pretty good
rapport with him? " and I said,

rapport with him? " and I said,
"yeah, I think so." he said,

"yeah, I think so." he said,
"okay, pack a bag. We're going

"okay, pack a bag. We're going
to colorado." by 1:00 that

to colorado." by 1:00 that
afternoon, peter chang, myself,

afternoon, peter chang, myself,
dick verbrugge, we're on a

dick verbrugge, we're on a
plane headed to pueblo,

plane headed to pueblo,
colorado. We're thinking about

colorado. We're thinking about
what bases we need to cover

what bases we need to cover
when we interview him, and we

when we interview him, and we
knew that he was being

knew that he was being
cooperative, so we were

cooperative, so we were
expecting to get a lot of

expecting to get a lot of
information. We landed in

information. We landed in
pueblo, colorado, and went to

pueblo, colorado, and went to
the police department where he

the police department where he
was being held. >> when I first

was being held. >> when I first
put my eyes on edmund kemper, I

put my eyes on edmund kemper, I
couldn't believe how big he

couldn't believe how big he
was. He was 6'9". He was a

was. He was 6'9". He was a
formidable man. >> he looked

formidable man. >> he looked
down at me and said, "hello,

down at me and said, "hello,
how are you? " he was talking

how are you? " he was talking
to me, and I think, "wow, this

to me, and I think, "wow, this
is unbelievable." just

is unbelievable." just
unbelievable. >> it was decided

unbelievable. >> it was decided
that we were gonna, of course,

that we were gonna, of course,
bring him back to santa cruz.

Bring him back to santa cruz.
In that regard, we tried to

in that regard, we tried to
make flight arrangements, and

make flight arrangements, and
the airlines would not allow us

the airlines would not allow us
to bring him back on their

to bring him back on their
planes. >> so we just decided

planes. >> so we just decided
it would be the best to drive

it would be the best to drive
him back. >> it was a three-day

him back. >> it was a three-day
trip. >> I was in the right

trip. >> I was in the right
rear seat. Kemper was in the

rear seat. Kemper was in the
left rear seat. >> he was

left rear seat. >> he was
spilling his guts out all the

spilling his guts out all the
way back. >> once he started to

way back. >> once he started to
confess, he just didn't stop.

Confess, he just didn't stop.
It was like pulling the plug on

it was like pulling the plug on
a bathtub full of water. It was

a bathtub full of water. It was
just gonna go all the way. >>

just gonna go all the way. >>
what I had wanted to do was to

what I had wanted to do was to
secure them and to suffocate

secure them and to suffocate
them with plastic bags over

them with plastic bags over
their heads. >> and over the

their heads. >> and over the
course of the next three days,

course of the next three days,
we had over six hours'worth of

we had over six hours'worth of
interviews with him. >> santa

interviews with him. >> santa
cruz detectives were

cruz detectives were

>> santa cruz detectives were
driving back to california from

driving back to california from
pueblo, colorado, with ed

pueblo, colorado, with ed
kemper. >> he's spilling his

kemper. >> he's spilling his
guts to me, and I sat next to

guts to me, and I sat next to
him in the back seat for three

him in the back seat for three
days. >> he kept talking about

days. >> he kept talking about
the murders and giving us more

the murders and giving us more
information and remembering

information and remembering
small facts and giving them to

small facts and giving them to
us continuously while we were

us continuously while we were
driving. >> and he would go

driving. >> and he would go
into great detail about his

into great detail about his
victims and why he did it and

victims and why he did it and
all of these things. After a

all of these things. After a
while, I'm thinking to myself,

while, I'm thinking to myself,
"god, will you just shut up?

"god, will you just shut up?
You know, I've had enough." but

you know, I've had enough." but
he'd keep talking. He'd keep

he'd keep talking. He'd keep
talking. >> his fourth victim

talking. >> his fourth victim
was a woman by the name of

was a woman by the name of
cynthia schall. She was a

cynthia schall. She was a
university student, and he

university student, and he
picked her up. >> ms. Schall,

picked her up. >> ms. Schall,
she actually got back into the

she actually got back into the
trunk under her own power. I

trunk under her own power. I
told her I was going to keep

told her I was going to keep
her undercover so that I could

her undercover so that I could
get her to my home, where we

get her to my home, where we
could talk, but I didn't want

could talk, but I didn't want
neighbors seeing her coming to

neighbors seeing her coming to
the house or leaving the house.

The house or leaving the house.
And I made that sound realistic

and I made that sound realistic
to her. So she didn't want to

to her. So she didn't want to
get in the trunk, but was

get in the trunk, but was
willing to. When she got in the

willing to. When she got in the
trunk, I shot her. >> after he

trunk, I shot her. >> after he
cut off her head, he took it to

cut off her head, he took it to
his house, to his mother's

his house, to his mother's
house, went in the backyard,

house, went in the backyard,
dug a hole. >> and kemper took

dug a hole. >> and kemper took
the skull of cynthia, buried it

the skull of cynthia, buried it
in his yard with the skull

in his yard with the skull
facing his mother's bedroom. >>

facing his mother's bedroom. >>
he told me that the reason he

he told me that the reason he
did that is because he could

did that is because he could
look out there and know that

look out there and know that
she's looking at him. So, we

she's looking at him. So, we
were passing all that

were passing all that
information on to the

information on to the
crime-scene investigators here

crime-scene investigators here
in santa cruz. >> kemper is

in santa cruz. >> kemper is
already on his way back from

already on his way back from
colorado. He is due to arrive

colorado. He is due to arrive
here on Friday, when further

here on Friday, when further
questioning will take place. >>

questioning will take place. >>
depending on whether and what

depending on whether and what
routes they may take, he'll be

routes they may take, he'll be
back any time between Friday

back any time between Friday
and Monday. >> he was

and Monday. >> he was
especially enamored with the

especially enamored with the
notoriety that he was getting.

Notoriety that he was getting.
One time we stopped to get some

one time we stopped to get some
gas, and he had to go to the

gas, and he had to go to the
restroom. So I took him into

restroom. So I took him into
the restroom, and we had a

the restroom, and we had a
chain around his waist and he

chain around his waist and he
was handcuffed to it. But when

was handcuffed to it. But when
we went in to use the restroom

we went in to use the restroom
and we came out, people

and we came out, people
recognized who this guy was,

recognized who this guy was,
and there was a small crowd.

And there was a small crowd.
And he would just stand erect,

and he would just stand erect,
and he would kind of strut,

and he would kind of strut,
looking around at all of these

looking around at all of these
people. So, he was thoroughly

people. So, he was thoroughly
enjoying all of this stuff. Day

enjoying all of this stuff. Day
three, we arrived back in santa

three, we arrived back in santa
cruz. We met other

cruz. We met other
investigators, and the

investigators, and the
agreement is that kemper will

agreement is that kemper will
show us these disposal sites

show us these disposal sites
before we take him in to have

before we take him in to have
him booked. He took us to these

him booked. He took us to these
various sites where he had

various sites where he had
disposed of the remains. Some

disposed of the remains. Some
of them were up in the

of them were up in the
mountains, and some of them

mountains, and some of them
were in country roads. >> there

were in country roads. >> there
was no way we could've found

was no way we could've found
them without him. >> he

them without him. >> he
remembered every location,

remembered every location,
every detail, what he did to

every detail, what he did to
those victims, how he disposed

those victims, how he disposed
of them. >> he could recall

of them. >> he could recall
exactly where he put this part,

exactly where he put this part,
another part. It was a very

another part. It was a very
surreal experience in all

surreal experience in all
aspects. >> so then we get to

aspects. >> so then we get to
the county jail, and there must

the county jail, and there must
have been, I'm guessing, 100

have been, I'm guessing, 100
people out front, a lot of

people out front, a lot of
media. >> how do you feel now

media. >> how do you feel now
that you found out he was a

that you found out he was a
neighbor? >> just gives me the

neighbor? >> just gives me the
creeps is kind of an

creeps is kind of an
understatement. >> so we had to

understatement. >> so we had to
pull around in back, and we

pull around in back, and we
took him up to the jail to be

took him up to the jail to be
booked. As they're filling out

booked. As they're filling out
the information, it gets to the

the information, it gets to the
point of who to notify in case

point of who to notify in case
of emergency. And he looked at

of emergency. And he looked at
me, and he says, "I don't have

me, and he says, "I don't have
anybody left. Can I put you

anybody left. Can I put you
down? " so he did. So my name's

down? " so he did. So my name's
on his booking sheet. >> I'll

on his booking sheet. >> I'll
never forget the day going into

never forget the day going into
my morning visit to the

my morning visit to the
sheriff's department and the

sheriff's department and the
spokesman there saying, "we've

spokesman there saying, "we've
solved it, we've got it, we've

solved it, we've got it, we've
got the guy." >> at the age of

got the guy." >> at the age of
24, he murdered his mother,

24, he murdered his mother,
then called police and

then called police and
confessed to having dismembered

confessed to having dismembered
college coeds for two years. >>

college coeds for two years. >>
all I did was breathe a sigh of

all I did was breathe a sigh of
relief. Thank god. >> those

relief. Thank god. >> those
murders have been part of a

murders have been part of a
series that had led santa cruz

series that had led santa cruz
county residents to fear their

county residents to fear their
county was becoming some kind

county was becoming some kind
of murder capital. >> I was so

of murder capital. >> I was so
relieved. I think everybody

relieved. I think everybody
was. We could stop wondering

was. We could stop wondering
what was gonna happen next. We

what was gonna happen next. We
could really sleep at night. >>

could really sleep at night. >>
but the city was going to wake

but the city was going to wake
up to learn the sickening

up to learn the sickening
details of what kemper had done

details of what kemper had done
to his victims. >> kemper

to his victims. >> kemper
buried the mutilated bodies in

buried the mutilated bodies in
the mountains and took the

the mountains and took the
severed heads home. Then he

severed heads home. Then he
slept with their heads for days,

slept with their heads for days,
and finally went looking for

and finally went looking for
more.

More.

>> edmund kemper was finally
back in santa cruz and behind

back in santa cruz and behind
bars. >> in santa cruz, I sat

bars. >> in santa cruz, I sat
down and interviewed him yet

down and interviewed him yet
again. He was just as loose

again. He was just as loose
with the information as he was

with the information as he was
from the very beginning. >>

from the very beginning. >>
kemper said he was killing

kemper said he was killing
coeds to fulfill fantasies he

coeds to fulfill fantasies he
had of killing his own mother,

had of killing his own mother,
who he despised. >> I'd wanted

who he despised. >> I'd wanted
to kill my mother since I was 8

to kill my mother since I was 8
years old, and I'm not proud of

years old, and I'm not proud of
that. >> that's the age ed's

that. >> that's the age ed's
father leaves the family

father leaves the family
because he couldn't take his

because he couldn't take his
wife's abuse anymore. >> she

wife's abuse anymore. >> she
was there to beat me, she was

was there to beat me, she was
there to humiliate me, she was

there to humiliate me, she was
there to use me as an example

there to use me as an example
of how inferior men are. >>

of how inferior men are. >>
after that, his mother banished

after that, his mother banished
him to live in the dark

him to live in the dark
basement. >> this is very, very

basement. >> this is very, very
disturbing. If a child is made

disturbing. If a child is made
to live like that, you could

to live like that, you could
see the amount of anger and

see the amount of anger and
rage that's accumulated in a

rage that's accumulated in a
young person's mind, and

young person's mind, and
particularly towards his mother,

particularly towards his mother,
who was the one who made him do

who was the one who made him do
it. >> I must be a really evil

it. >> I must be a really evil
little kid because I'm thinking

little kid because I'm thinking
all these horrible things. I

all these horrible things. I
was thinking of them in

was thinking of them in
increasing amounts and

increasing amounts and
increasing frequency, so it's a

increasing frequency, so it's a
kind of conditioning. >> and he

kind of conditioning. >> and he
retaliates by going after the

retaliates by going after the
family cat. And not just

family cat. And not just
killing it, but brutalizing the

killing it, but brutalizing the
cat. Even at a young age, he

cat. Even at a young age, he
knew that this was exciting,

knew that this was exciting,
and he was sort of testing out

and he was sort of testing out
the limits of these fantasies

the limits of these fantasies
and starting to put them into

and starting to put them into
real life. >> he played some

real life. >> he played some
very, very sick games. >> there

very, very sick games. >> there
were aggressive fantasies, as

were aggressive fantasies, as
well as play-acting where he

well as play-acting where he
would be electrocuted on an

would be electrocuted on an
electric chair. Playing these

electric chair. Playing these
violent games are abnormal in

violent games are abnormal in
and of itself, but when you

and of itself, but when you
associate it with sexual

associate it with sexual
fantasies, which are beginning

fantasies, which are beginning
really around this time -- 10,

really around this time -- 10,
11, 12 years old and so on --

11, 12 years old and so on --
that is highly abnormal. >>

that is highly abnormal. >>
puberty for him puts him over

puberty for him puts him over
the edge. He becomes very much

the edge. He becomes very much
involved in sexual fantasies

involved in sexual fantasies
and spends most of his time

and spends most of his time
thinking about sex and thinking

thinking about sex and thinking
about what he can do to people.

About what he can do to people.
>> so you're seeing a fusion

>> so you're seeing a fusion
between sexual fantasies and

between sexual fantasies and
aggression. >> between the ages

aggression. >> between the ages
of about 10 and 13, I was going

of about 10 and 13, I was going
through some incredible

through some incredible
emotional shifts. And without a

emotional shifts. And without a
lot of positive input from

lot of positive input from
parental or adult figures, it

parental or adult figures, it
can go in some really wild

can go in some really wild
directions. I wanted to get

directions. I wanted to get
away from my mother because I

away from my mother because I
was dreaming, thinking,

was dreaming, thinking,
fantasizing murder all day

fantasizing murder all day
long. I couldn't get it out of

long. I couldn't get it out of
my head. >> when he was 14, ed

my head. >> when he was 14, ed
kemper was reunited with his

kemper was reunited with his
father, who was the only person

father, who was the only person
he thought who ever cared for

he thought who ever cared for
him. >> he thought it was gonna

him. >> he thought it was gonna
be this great reunion with his

be this great reunion with his
father, he was gonna be so

father, he was gonna be so
happy. >> I'm desperate because

happy. >> I'm desperate because
I've never had the man in my

I've never had the man in my
life. I wanted my father's

life. I wanted my father's
love. I wanted his approval. I

love. I wanted his approval. I
wanted his recognitions. >> he

wanted his recognitions. >> he
goes and lives with his dad for

goes and lives with his dad for
a period, and his father is

a period, and his father is
remarried and had a kid. And ed

remarried and had a kid. And ed
realizes this is not the

realizes this is not the
dynamic he thought it was going

dynamic he thought it was going
to be. >> I think edmund kemper

to be. >> I think edmund kemper
saw the stepson as a

saw the stepson as a
replacement for him. He was a

replacement for him. He was a
good kid. He didn't get into

good kid. He didn't get into
trouble. He wasn't odd-looking.

Trouble. He wasn't odd-looking.
He wasn't unusual. He was just

he wasn't unusual. He was just
a normal kid. >> friction with

a normal kid. >> friction with
my stepbrother and my

my stepbrother and my
stepmother. There was problems

stepmother. There was problems
there. We were vying for his

there. We were vying for his
interest, vying for his love.

Interest, vying for his love.
So we fought each other a lot,

so we fought each other a lot,
and it was a lot of friction,

and it was a lot of friction,
and he couldn't handle that, so

and he couldn't handle that, so
he got rid of me. I was old

he got rid of me. I was old
family. >> when he's 15 years

family. >> when he's 15 years
old, the father takes him to

old, the father takes him to
his grandparents, leaves him

his grandparents, leaves him
there, and abandons him. >> I

there, and abandons him. >> I
got left there. We went there

got left there. We went there
for christmas from my father's

for christmas from my father's
in l.A. We went up to the

in l.A. We went up to the
mountains to stay for christmas,

mountains to stay for christmas,
and I got left behind. >> the

and I got left behind. >> the
father changes his phone

father changes his phone
number. He can't be caught in

number. He can't be caught in
any way, shape, or form. >> I

any way, shape, or form. >> I
was already a failure, so, you

was already a failure, so, you
know, I got parked up in the

know, I got parked up in the
mountains. First it was okay

mountains. First it was okay
because it was the calm of

because it was the calm of
being away from montana. >> one

being away from montana. >> one
of the happy bonding moments of

of the happy bonding moments of
kemper's time with his

kemper's time with his
grandparents is going out and

grandparents is going out and
shooting with his grandfather.

Shooting with his grandfather.
>> his grandfather is a very

>> his grandfather is a very
staunch, straight guy who

staunch, straight guy who
doesn't say much to him, but he

doesn't say much to him, but he
is there for him. The

is there for him. The
grandmother, on the other hand,

grandmother, on the other hand,
started acting like the mother

started acting like the mother
did. >> my grandmother had made

did. >> my grandmother had made
agreements with me from the

agreements with me from the
gate that she wouldn't get into

gate that she wouldn't get into
little humiliating mind games

little humiliating mind games
with me, like my mother and

with me, like my mother and
stepfather had done. And then

stepfather had done. And then
this mind game stuff started

this mind game stuff started
up. >> she started to berate

up. >> she started to berate
him. She started to make fun of

him. She started to make fun of
him. She started to have almost

him. She started to have almost
the same atmosphere in her

the same atmosphere in her
house as he had at his mother's

house as he had at his mother's
house, and he became very angry

house, and he became very angry
at this. >> she never let me

at this. >> she never let me
leave the property, and it

leave the property, and it
started simmering, I guess,

started simmering, I guess,
started building -- the

started building -- the
passions and the tension. >>

passions and the tension. >>
tension between ed and his

tension between ed and his
grandmother were escalating and

grandmother were escalating and
reached a boiling point. >>

reached a boiling point. >>
kemper, he's rejected by his

kemper, he's rejected by his
mother, he's dumped by his

mother, he's dumped by his
father, his grandmother's on

father, his grandmother's on
him, and I think, at this point,

him, and I think, at this point,
kemper, who's filled with anger

kemper, who's filled with anger
his whole life, he just doesn't

his whole life, he just doesn't
care. >> I was building up big

care. >> I was building up big
loads of frustration inside,

loads of frustration inside,
big loads of hatred because I

big loads of hatred because I
had no outlet for it. I should

had no outlet for it. I should
have developed outlets, but I

have developed outlets, but I
didn't know how at that time.

Didn't know how at that time.
>> he starts, he says, to kind

>> he starts, he says, to kind
of get this obsession in his

of get this obsession in his
head where he wants to know

head where he wants to know
what it's gonna feel like to

what it's gonna feel like to
kill his grandmother, and he

kill his grandmother, and he
starts thinking about it more

starts thinking about it more
and more. This just was so in

and more. This just was so in
his mind, he couldn't get it

his mind, he couldn't get it
out. So kemper gets up one

out. So kemper gets up one
morning, the tension is built,

morning, the tension is built,
or maybe he's just decided

or maybe he's just decided
today's the day in a very cold,

today's the day in a very cold,
calculating way, and he comes

calculating way, and he comes
up behind his grandmother,

up behind his grandmother,
shoots her. >> and he killed

shoots her. >> and he killed
her. But he also decided that

her. But he also decided that
he didn't want his grandfather

he didn't want his grandfather
to be upset with him, so he

to be upset with him, so he
decided to kill the grandfather

decided to kill the grandfather
before the grandfather found

before the grandfather found
that he had killed the

that he had killed the
grandmother. >> kemper was

grandmother. >> kemper was
found insane and sent to a

found insane and sent to a
state mental hospital at the

state mental hospital at the
age of 15. Six years later, on

age of 15. Six years later, on
his 21st birthday, he was

his 21st birthday, he was
released. And that's when the

released. And that's when the
trouble began.

Trouble began.

>> welcome back to "very scary
people." when 21-year-old

people." when 21-year-old
edmund kemper was finally being

edmund kemper was finally being
released from the mental

released from the mental
institution, doctors warned

institution, doctors warned
there was one person he should

there was one person he should
never be allowed to live with

never be allowed to live with
again -- his mother. Their

again -- his mother. Their
relationship throughout his

relationship throughout his
childhood was toxic. The

childhood was toxic. The
outcome could be catastrophic.

Outcome could be catastrophic.
Turns out, they were right. >>

turns out, they were right. >>
I can't get away from her.

I can't get away from her.
We're still fighting, she's

we're still fighting, she's
still belittling me. >> so ed

still belittling me. >> so ed
kemper starts picking up women

kemper starts picking up women
who are hitchhiking and

who are hitchhiking and
fantasizes about killing them.

Fantasizes about killing them.
>> I was dreaming, thinking,

>> I was dreaming, thinking,
fantasizing murder all day

fantasizing murder all day
long. I couldn't get it out of

long. I couldn't get it out of
my head. >> and then, in may of

my head. >> and then, in may of
1972, he kills his first two

1972, he kills his first two
coeds. They were mary anne

coeds. They were mary anne
pesce and anita luchessa. >>

pesce and anita luchessa. >>
the first young lady that was

the first young lady that was
in the back seat, that was mary

in the back seat, that was mary
anne pesce. She argued a lot.

Anne pesce. She argued a lot.
>> this was the first time that

>> this was the first time that
he actually followed through on

he actually followed through on
what he had been thinking about

what he had been thinking about
doing all this time. >> I just

doing all this time. >> I just
stabbed to death and cut the

stabbed to death and cut the
throat of an innocent young

throat of an innocent young
woman -- innocent in a sense

woman -- innocent in a sense
that she did not plan on that

that she did not plan on that
happening. She didn't do

happening. She didn't do
anything specifically for that

anything specifically for that
to happen to her. And her

to happen to her. And her
roommate died right after that.

Roommate died right after that.
>> about nine months later,

>> about nine months later,
kemper kills his last two

kemper kills his last two
coeds. >> kemper's living with

coeds. >> kemper's living with
his mother, having constant

his mother, having constant
fights with her, and he says

fights with her, and he says
they had this kind of

they had this kind of
knock-down, drag-out fight. He

knock-down, drag-out fight. He
was in such a blind rage, he

was in such a blind rage, he
gets in his car, and he decided

gets in his car, and he decided
no matter who got in the car,

no matter who got in the car,
he was gonna kill them that

he was gonna kill them that
night. And he picks up these

night. And he picks up these
two women, rosalind thorpe and

two women, rosalind thorpe and
allison liu. And this guy has a,

allison liu. And this guy has a,
you know, uc santa cruz sticker

you know, uc santa cruz sticker
on the car, seems like a safe

on the car, seems like a safe
guy to get a ride with, so they

guy to get a ride with, so they
both hop in, and he waves bye

both hop in, and he waves bye
to the campus security, heads

to the campus security, heads
on back to his location where

on back to his location where
he's gonna kill them. And he

he's gonna kill them. And he
claims this is one of the more

claims this is one of the more
reckless moves that he claims

reckless moves that he claims
to do. He says he doesn't even

to do. He says he doesn't even
wait to get the bodies in the

wait to get the bodies in the
house. He opens the trunk, and

house. He opens the trunk, and
he decapitates both women right

he decapitates both women right
there, and he claims the

there, and he claims the
neighbors across the street,

neighbors across the street,
they could have looked out and

they could have looked out and
seen what he was doing. >> I

seen what he was doing. >> I
was getting better at it. I was

was getting better at it. I was
getting less detectable. I

getting less detectable. I
started flaunting that

started flaunting that
invisibility, severing a human

invisibility, severing a human
head, two of them, at night in

head, two of them, at night in
front of my mother's residence

front of my mother's residence
with her at home, my neighbors

with her at home, my neighbors
at home upstairs, their picture

at home upstairs, their picture
window open, the curtains open.

Window open, the curtains open.
11:00 at night, the lights are

11:00 at night, the lights are
on, all they have to do is walk

on, all they have to do is walk
by, look out, and I've had it.

By, look out, and I've had it.
>> ed kemper had killed a total

>> ed kemper had killed a total
of six female hitchhikers. >>

of six female hitchhikers. >>
for months, kemper had been

for months, kemper had been
killing young women, but

killing young women, but
finally he was going to get to

finally he was going to get to
the root of his hate, his own

the root of his hate, his own
mother. >> it was springtime,

mother. >> it was springtime,
it was April, and for two

it was April, and for two
months, I hadn't killed. I said,

months, I hadn't killed. I said,
"it's not going to happen to

"it's not going to happen to
any more girls. It's gotta stay

any more girls. It's gotta stay
between me and my mother." >>

between me and my mother." >>
he tells himself, "I got to

he tells himself, "I got to
stop killing these other women.

Stop killing these other women.
I need to kill my mother." >> I

I need to kill my mother." >> I
said, "she's gotta die, or

said, "she's gotta die, or
girls like that are gonna die."

girls like that are gonna die."
and that's when I decided, "I'm

and that's when I decided, "I'm
going to murder my mother." she

going to murder my mother." she
went out to a party, she got

went out to a party, she got
soused, she came home, went to

soused, she came home, went to
sleep. I was woken up by that,

sleep. I was woken up by that,
I came out. I walked up to her

I came out. I walked up to her
bed. She's laying there reading

bed. She's laying there reading
a paperback, as many thousands

a paperback, as many thousands
of nights before. And she said,

of nights before. And she said,
"oh, I suppose you're gonna

"oh, I suppose you're gonna
wanna sit up all night and talk

wanna sit up all night and talk
now." [bleep] I looked at her,

now." [bleep] I looked at her,
I said, "no." I said,

I said, "no." I said,
"goodnight." and I knew I was

"goodnight." and I knew I was
gonna kill her. >> and he left

gonna kill her. >> and he left
the room, waited till she fell

the room, waited till she fell
asleep, came in with a claw

asleep, came in with a claw
hammer, hit her in the head,

hammer, hit her in the head,
and then he slit her throat. >>

and then he slit her throat. >>
once my mother was dead, there

once my mother was dead, there
was almost a cathartic process

was almost a cathartic process
at that point, when I murdered

at that point, when I murdered
her. >> and kemper talks about

her. >> and kemper talks about
thinking, "what's good enough

thinking, "what's good enough
for my other victims is good

for my other victims is good
enough for my own mother." so

enough for my own mother." so
he does to his mother what he

he does to his mother what he
did to his other victims. >> I

did to his other victims. >> I
cut off her head, and I

cut off her head, and I
humiliated her corpse. >> and

humiliated her corpse. >> and
what he did after that is truly

what he did after that is truly
hard to hear. >> he dismembers

hard to hear. >> he dismembers
her, he rapes her corpse. He

her, he rapes her corpse. He
then takes a couple of

then takes a couple of
additional steps that really go

additional steps that really go
into the pathology of why this

into the pathology of why this
guy hated his own mother. >> he

guy hated his own mother. >> he
takes her vocal cords, and he

takes her vocal cords, and he
puts them in the garbage

puts them in the garbage
disposal. >> I think what it

disposal. >> I think what it
means symbolically to him was,

means symbolically to him was,
he couldn't stand her yelling

he couldn't stand her yelling
and belittling him all these

and belittling him all these
years. >> it was the way to

years. >> it was the way to
stop his mother from saying

stop his mother from saying
anything again, once and for

anything again, once and for
all. >> and then the garbage

all. >> and then the garbage
disposal basically spat it back

disposal basically spat it back
at him. >> after he murdered

at him. >> after he murdered
his mother, he obviously had to

his mother, he obviously had to
think what he was gonna do next

think what he was gonna do next
because she would be reported

because she would be reported
as missing. >> so kemper then

as missing. >> so kemper then
realizes that if anyone is

realizes that if anyone is
gonna notice that his mother

gonna notice that his mother
has gone missing, it's her best

has gone missing, it's her best
friend, sally hallett. So ed

friend, sally hallett. So ed
calls up sally and says, "hey,

calls up sally and says, "hey,
do you want to come over? " >>

do you want to come over? " >>
ed kemper had just killed his

ed kemper had just killed his
mother, the woman he claimed

mother, the woman he claimed
was

was

>> ed kemper had just killed
his mother, the woman he

his mother, the woman he
claimed was the source of his

claimed was the source of his
anger. >> after he murdered his

anger. >> after he murdered his
mother, he obviously had to

mother, he obviously had to
think what he was gonna do next

think what he was gonna do next
because she would be reported

because she would be reported
as missing. >> so kemper then

as missing. >> so kemper then
realizes that if anyone is

realizes that if anyone is
gonna notice that his mother

gonna notice that his mother
has gone missing, it's her best

has gone missing, it's her best
friend, sally hallett. >> they

friend, sally hallett. >> they
worked together at the

worked together at the
university. >> sally hallett

university. >> sally hallett
was a fairly typical

was a fairly typical
administrator that worked in

administrator that worked in
the dormitory system. She was a

the dormitory system. She was a
competent, hard-working person.

Competent, hard-working person.
>> so ed calls up sally and

>> so ed calls up sally and
says, "hey, do you want to come

says, "hey, do you want to come
over? " >> and he prepares the

over? " >> and he prepares the
house so that no one will hear

house so that no one will hear
anything or see anything. >>

anything or see anything. >>
closed all the blinds so that

closed all the blinds so that
no one can see in. Brings her

no one can see in. Brings her
in the door. >> as soon as she

in the door. >> as soon as she
walked in, he grabbed her. >>

walked in, he grabbed her. >>
he attacks her, punches her in

he attacks her, punches her in
the stomach. She puts up

the stomach. She puts up
somewhat of a fight, but

somewhat of a fight, but
ultimately he smothers her. And

ultimately he smothers her. And
now he has two dead bodies. >>

now he has two dead bodies. >>
after he committed these last

after he committed these last
murders, before he left town,

murders, before he left town,
in a very famous getaway, he

in a very famous getaway, he
stopped off at the jury room,

stopped off at the jury room,
which is the one place he felt

which is the one place he felt
comfortable, I suppose. >> gets

comfortable, I suppose. >> gets
a couple drinks, does his sort

a couple drinks, does his sort
of usual cool-off. >> but it's

of usual cool-off. >> but it's
only a matter of time before

only a matter of time before
kemper gets caught, and he

kemper gets caught, and he
knows this very, very well.

Knows this very, very well.
Eventually they're gonna find

eventually they're gonna find
his mother dead, and he's

his mother dead, and he's
immediately gonna be the

immediately gonna be the
number-one suspect. >> so he

number-one suspect. >> so he
heads out, gets in his car, and

heads out, gets in his car, and
just starts driving. >> he's

just starts driving. >> he's
taking no-doz, he's trying to

taking no-doz, he's trying to
keep up. >> he was listening to

keep up. >> he was listening to
the radio, expecting to hear

the radio, expecting to hear
news, either of his mother's

news, either of his mother's
death or that the police were

death or that the police were
in this chase for him, but it

in this chase for him, but it
never happened. For him, I

never happened. For him, I
think the paranoia was building

think the paranoia was building
and building and building, and

and building and building, and
it was starting to make him

it was starting to make him
feel like he was cracking. >>

feel like he was cracking. >>
and eventually, it just has to

and eventually, it just has to
end. Where's he going? What's

end. Where's he going? What's
he gonna do? Kemper then drives

he gonna do? Kemper then drives
about 18 hours in total. >>

about 18 hours in total. >>
then he decided that the jig

then he decided that the jig
was up. >> at that point, he

was up. >> at that point, he
finds himself over 1,000 miles

finds himself over 1,000 miles
east of santa cruz, and he

east of santa cruz, and he
stops to make a phone call. >>

stops to make a phone call. >>
in pueblo, colorado, he gets in

in pueblo, colorado, he gets in
a phone booth and confessed to

a phone booth and confessed to
the murders. >> I just killed a

the murders. >> I just killed a
young woman, and I kept on just

young woman, and I kept on just
mindlessly attacking. >> when I

mindlessly attacking. >> when I
think about what he did,

think about what he did,
especially the way he

especially the way he
dismembered and then had sex

dismembered and then had sex
with body parts, it disgusts

with body parts, it disgusts
me. It makes me want to vomit.

Me. It makes me want to vomit.
I can't imagine a human being

I can't imagine a human being
being that distorted and

being that distorted and
inhumane. >> it wasn't the

inhumane. >> it wasn't the
aspect of killing them, it was

aspect of killing them, it was
the aspect of possessing their

the aspect of possessing their
bodies afterwards. So it was

bodies afterwards. So it was
almost after an effect --

almost after an effect --
evicting someone from their

evicting someone from their
human body. And I'm sorry it

human body. And I'm sorry it
sounds so cold, but that's

sounds so cold, but that's
about what it analogizes to. >>

about what it analogizes to. >>
the reason people commit

the reason people commit
necrophilia is because they are

necrophilia is because they are
in complete control of the

in complete control of the
person. They are not going to

person. They are not going to
be rejected, they're not going

be rejected, they're not going
to be objected to. They cannot

to be objected to. They cannot
say, "oh, you're awful, " or,

say, "oh, you're awful, " or,
"yeah, I don't want to have sex

"yeah, I don't want to have sex
with you." >> kemper was

with you." >> kemper was
arraigned this afternoon on

arraigned this afternoon on
charges of killing six young

charges of killing six young
women, his mother, and a friend

women, his mother, and a friend
of hers. >> the sight of edmund

of hers. >> the sight of edmund
emil kemper iii is an awesome

emil kemper iii is an awesome
experience in itself. He stands

experience in itself. He stands
6 feet, 9 inches tall and

6 feet, 9 inches tall and
weighs about 280 pounds. But

weighs about 280 pounds. But
the crimes with which he's been

the crimes with which he's been
charged are even more awesome.

Charged are even more awesome.
>> so, it was an interesting

>> so, it was an interesting
sort of legal case for kemper's

sort of legal case for kemper's
lawyers because he had

lawyers because he had
confessed to all the crimes. >>

confessed to all the crimes. >>
from the defense perspective,

from the defense perspective,
there is really nowhere else to

there is really nowhere else to
go other than an insanity

go other than an insanity
defense. The hope for a defense

defense. The hope for a defense
attorney at this point is that

attorney at this point is that
you could convince just one

you could convince just one
juror what he did is just so

juror what he did is just so
outrageous, it's just so

outrageous, it's just so
extraordinary, with necrophilia

extraordinary, with necrophilia
and cutting heads off, he has

and cutting heads off, he has
to be insane. He has to be out

to be insane. He has to be out
of touch with reality. >>

of touch with reality. >>
meanwhile, the prosecution

meanwhile, the prosecution
strategy was to just point out

strategy was to just point out
this was all thought out, that

this was all thought out, that
he's an intelligent person,

he's an intelligent person,
he's not insane, that he knew

he's not insane, that he knew
the difference between right

the difference between right
and wrong. >> when you try to

and wrong. >> when you try to
elude law enforcement, it shows

elude law enforcement, it shows
consciousness of guilt and an

consciousness of guilt and an
awareness of the wrongfulness

awareness of the wrongfulness
of your behavior. >> and he

of your behavior. >> and he
knew it was wrong, but he did

knew it was wrong, but he did
it anyway.

It anyway.

>> I covered the trial, and it
was a media circus. But in

was a media circus. But in
those days, they wouldn't allow

those days, they wouldn't allow
cameras into courtrooms, except

cameras into courtrooms, except
occasionally before the trial

occasionally before the trial
started. In a way, the hardest

started. In a way, the hardest
part of the entire case for me

part of the entire case for me
was the day that kemper's taped

was the day that kemper's taped
confession was played, and it

confession was played, and it
was played all day long. >> I

was played all day long. >> I
went out and bought at a pawn

went out and bought at a pawn
shop a huge knife. And I kept

shop a huge knife. And I kept
on just mindlessly attacking.

On just mindlessly attacking.
>> and I focused on the

>> and I focused on the
parents. And the look on their

parents. And the look on their
face was something that I just

face was something that I just
to this day can't get over. I

to this day can't get over. I
can't imagine the horror in

can't imagine the horror in
their life. There was one

their life. There was one
father, and for some reason,

father, and for some reason,
the look on his face got to me,

the look on his face got to me,
and I started tearing up, and I

and I started tearing up, and I
was crying, and I couldn't

was crying, and I couldn't
stop. And, you know, that was

stop. And, you know, that was
after months of dealing with

after months of dealing with
this. The jury trial lasted

this. The jury trial lasted
three weeks. The jury came back

three weeks. The jury came back
within five hours. I don't

within five hours. I don't
think there was much question

think there was much question
at any point that he was guilty

at any point that he was guilty
and sane. "may god have mercy

and sane. "may god have mercy
on your soul, mr. Kemper." that

on your soul, mr. Kemper." that
was the only words that were

was the only words that were
spoken, and then he was whisked

spoken, and then he was whisked
off. He was sentenced to life

off. He was sentenced to life
in prison. Since he's been in

in prison. Since he's been in
prison, ed has been a model

prison, ed has been a model
inmate. >> from the prison

inmate. >> from the prison
staff perspective, kemper is

staff perspective, kemper is
somebody you could rely on. >>

somebody you could rely on. >>
he has done an awful lot of

he has done an awful lot of
volunteer work in the prison.

Volunteer work in the prison.
>> there's the ability to work

>> there's the ability to work
into that picture positive

into that picture positive
things, like working on the

things, like working on the
blind project, where we read

blind project, where we read
books onto tape for the blind.

Books onto tape for the blind.
I participated in that program

I participated in that program
for the last 14 years. >> what

for the last 14 years. >> what
have been your favorite

have been your favorite
readings? >> sometimes

readings? >> sometimes
children's books -- some of the

children's books -- some of the
more complex children's books,

more complex children's books,
like white's "charlotte's web,

like white's "charlotte's web,
" "stuart little, " "trumpet of

" "stuart little, " "trumpet of
the swan, " which are amazingly

the swan, " which are amazingly
complex and before their times.

Complex and before their times.
>> the day we visited, mass

>> the day we visited, mass
murderer ed kemper was

murderer ed kemper was
transcribing "star wars." >>

transcribing "star wars." >>
reaching for the internal

reaching for the internal
controls, 3po was shocked.

Controls, 3po was shocked.
"behave yourself, r2, " he

"behave yourself, r2, " he
finally chastised his

finally chastised his
companion. "you're going to get

companion. "you're going to get
us into trouble! " >> I think

us into trouble! " >> I think
he is much more adjusted and

he is much more adjusted and
feels much more comfortable in

feels much more comfortable in
prison than what he felt when

prison than what he felt when
he was out in society, because

he was out in society, because
he couldn't live in society. He

he couldn't live in society. He
was too wrapped up in his

was too wrapped up in his
jealousy and his envy and his

jealousy and his envy and his
inadequacy and the torment of

inadequacy and the torment of
his inner life. Everything is

his inner life. Everything is
very structured. He doesn't

very structured. He doesn't
have to try to get a

have to try to get a
girlfriend. There are no girls

girlfriend. There are no girls
there. >> since he's been in

there. >> since he's been in
prison, over all these years,

prison, over all these years,
he has only had one write-up

he has only had one write-up
for misconduct, and I was

for misconduct, and I was
always afraid that when they

always afraid that when they
looked at his record, looked at

looked at his record, looked at
his intelligence, looked at the

his intelligence, looked at the
way he could come across with

way he could come across with
sincerity, that somebody might

sincerity, that somebody might
say, "yeah, let's let him out."

say, "yeah, let's let him out."
I just know in my heart that he

I just know in my heart that he
would kill again. >> one of the

would kill again. >> one of the
reasons people are so

reasons people are so
interested in kemper is that

interested in kemper is that
he's one of the very few serial

he's one of the very few serial
killers who's spoken at length

killers who's spoken at length
about his crimes and also his

about his crimes and also his
motivations. And he's spoken

motivations. And he's spoken
with the fbi behavioral

with the fbi behavioral
sciences unit and given them

sciences unit and given them
insights into why he did it. >>

insights into why he did it. >>
I was invited to the fbi

I was invited to the fbi
academy to talk about rape

academy to talk about rape
victimology, serial killers,

victimology, serial killers,
and serial crime, and they

and serial crime, and they
didn't have anybody that was

didn't have anybody that was
expert in that area. And that

expert in that area. And that
was the start, if you will, of

was the start, if you will, of
criminal profiling. Bob ressler

criminal profiling. Bob ressler
and john douglas had just been

and john douglas had just been
given the green light to be

given the green light to be
able to do their own research.

Able to do their own research.
The goal to the project was to

the goal to the project was to
do interviews and get data from

do interviews and get data from
36 serial killers, to use the

36 serial killers, to use the
data in the profiling. Kemper

data in the profiling. Kemper
was an important part of our

was an important part of our
study because we learned a lot

study because we learned a lot
from him. He wanted to tell his

from him. He wanted to tell his
story, and I think that was a

story, and I think that was a
high for him to talk about it.

High for him to talk about it.
It was "his handiwork, " if you

it was "his handiwork, " if you
want to look at it in a rather

want to look at it in a rather
dark way. >> as I'm sitting

dark way. >> as I'm sitting
there with a severed head in my

there with a severed head in my
hand, talking to it, I say,

hand, talking to it, I say,
"wow, this is insane." and then

"wow, this is insane." and then
I told myself, "no, it isn't.

I told myself, "no, it isn't.
You're saying that, and that

you're saying that, and that
makes it not insane." >> kemper

makes it not insane." >> kemper
was very articulate, he was

was very articulate, he was
very open, and he would talk

very open, and he would talk
and talk and talk, which was

and talk and talk, which was
very helpful. Talked about how

very helpful. Talked about how
the thoughts all began. Talked

the thoughts all began. Talked
about the fantasy and how some

about the fantasy and how some
of his first murders went. >>

of his first murders went. >>
but I was losing a grasp on

but I was losing a grasp on
something that was too violent

something that was too violent
to keep inside forever. >> what

to keep inside forever. >> what
did we learn from ed kemper? We

did we learn from ed kemper? We
learned a lot of things. First

learned a lot of things. First
of all, the most important

of all, the most important
thing was the fantasy life. He

thing was the fantasy life. He
was very clear on that. He went

was very clear on that. He went
into great detail about how

into great detail about how
those fantasies started. He

those fantasies started. He
also told us about how he

also told us about how he
practiced and he practiced on

practiced and he practiced on
animals and that he -- cats

animals and that he -- cats
especially, where he would

especially, where he would
behead the cat, and torture the

behead the cat, and torture the
cat, and so forth. >> I started

cat, and so forth. >> I started
with surrogates at a non-human

with surrogates at a non-human
level. Small animals, insects,

level. Small animals, insects,
animals, and then finally

animals, and then finally
people. >> and then we learned

people. >> and then we learned
how he followed his crimes --

how he followed his crimes --
he would read the paper, he

he would read the paper, he
would interject himself in with

would interject himself in with
the police when they were

the police when they were
investigating, see how far

investigating, see how far
along they were getting, and

along they were getting, and
putting it over on the police.

Putting it over on the police.
He was certainly getting

he was certainly getting
vicarious satisfaction out of

vicarious satisfaction out of
that. So, those were just some

that. So, those were just some
of the takeaways from ed kemper,

of the takeaways from ed kemper,
which later got translated to

which later got translated to
other serial killers. >> I

other serial killers. >> I
still think about the

still think about the
experience, what happened to

experience, what happened to
the community, what happened to

the community, what happened to
these girls. I think it's fair

these girls. I think it's fair
to say that the family members

to say that the family members
who are still surviving, I'm

who are still surviving, I'm
sure they live with this every

sure they live with this every
day. And in that way, I do, too,

day. And in that way, I do, too,
because my heart goes out to

because my heart goes out to
all of them, and it's never

all of them, and it's never
changed. >> he affected all of

changed. >> he affected all of
us. He taught us that life is

us. He taught us that life is
not safe, that bad things do

not safe, that bad things do
happen to good people, and that

happen to good people, and that
it's our job to be responsible

it's our job to be responsible
for our own safety. >> now,

for our own safety. >> now,
would you get in a car with

would you get in a car with
this man, huh? >> I've never

this man, huh? >> I've never
stopped looking to my right and

stopped looking to my right and
to my left. I'll always be that

to my left. I'll always be that
way. >> edmund kemper was

way. >> edmund kemper was
sentenced to life in prison in

sentenced to life in prison in
1973. Incredibly, he was

1973. Incredibly, he was
eligible for parole in 1979. It

eligible for parole in 1979. It
was denied. He has been denied

was denied. He has been denied
parole multiple times since,

parole multiple times since,
most recently in 2017. He'll be

most recently in 2017. He'll be
eligible for release again in

eligible for release again in
2024. The'70s may seem like a

2024. The'70s may seem like a
long time ago, but the families

long time ago, but the families
will never forget what this

will never forget what this
monster took from them. I'm

monster took from them. I'm
donnie wahlberg. Thanks for

donnie wahlberg. Thanks for
watching. Goodnight.