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[metal music]
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[growling]
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- I went to a party, it
was like late, late 1982.
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There was local parties
in certain neighborhoods.
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They would have bands
play and charge whatever,
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five bucks to get in
and have a keg of beer
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and just come in
there and hang out
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and watch local band
play cover songs
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in the backyard
instead of in a bar
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and Chuck just
happened to be there
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and we just struck up
conversation coincidentally
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and had a lot of the
same musical influence
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and stuff like
that so me and Kam
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dropped out of
high school first,
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pretty much the
same time then Chuck
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dropped out a week or two later
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and then we pretty much
spent seven days a week
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in his garage.
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[metal music]
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[growling]
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- [Female] Everybody heard
the music because when he
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started the band Mantas,
it started coming
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from the garage and
we were, my parents
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were trying to figure out ways
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to soundproof the garage
and everything else.
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00:02:03,364 --> 00:02:06,091
All the way up way
away you could hear,
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00:02:06,091 --> 00:02:08,404
actually you could
feel the vibrations,
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00:02:08,404 --> 00:02:10,095
the drums and stuff.
29
00:02:13,098 --> 00:02:15,549
- Chuck had a really
great infrastructure
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00:02:15,549 --> 00:02:18,724
in terms of his, in
support from his mom, Jane,
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00:02:18,724 --> 00:02:21,727
and she allowed him
to follow his dream
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to be a musician no
matter where it took him.
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Whether that meant
bailing him out of Canada
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when things didn't work out
with the Slaughter lineup
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and helping him get back home
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00:02:32,013 --> 00:02:34,326
or whether that meant
putting up people
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00:02:34,326 --> 00:02:36,121
who were moving halfway
across the country
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to join his band
or jam with him.
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00:02:38,330 --> 00:02:39,952
- They would pretty
much, there were times
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00:02:39,952 --> 00:02:41,609
they would come over for dinner
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and it was always
a family dinner
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and mom would say
oh, what's going on?
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Well where are you staying?
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00:02:46,856 --> 00:02:48,685
Oh no, come stay with us.
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That kind of thing.
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- That was after my son
Frank had passed away
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so to me that was great.
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00:02:56,210 --> 00:02:58,833
They were all about the
same age and it was great.
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00:02:58,833 --> 00:03:00,628
They were wonderful,
wonderful kids.
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00:03:01,836 --> 00:03:05,115
Now they're grown men
and all but back then.
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00:03:05,115 --> 00:03:08,360
- She believed in
him as an artist
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00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,742
and I think that
considering the art
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00:03:10,742 --> 00:03:15,402
that he was writing and
performing at that time,
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that's a pretty
sizable leap of faith
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because I think most parents
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would just be like
what is this shit
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that you're doing?
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00:03:22,581 --> 00:03:24,065
- It was never
like that with her.
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00:03:24,065 --> 00:03:28,484
It was always complete
support and love for Chuck
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00:03:28,484 --> 00:03:30,451
and not to exclude
his dad as well.
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His dad probably tolerated it
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more than loved
what he was doing.
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00:03:36,940 --> 00:03:39,426
[metal music]
64
00:03:51,023 --> 00:03:52,542
- And we both had
a mutual friend
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that went to school with me.
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00:03:55,338 --> 00:03:56,891
One day [mumbling] he invited me
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to come over to his house
and listen to some records.
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00:03:59,411 --> 00:04:02,172
I went over to David's
house that afternoon
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00:04:02,172 --> 00:04:03,519
wearing my cutoff jean jacket
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00:04:03,519 --> 00:04:06,315
and my Iron Maiden
shirt or whatever.
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00:04:06,315 --> 00:04:08,178
We each got an armful of albums
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00:04:08,178 --> 00:04:10,215
and eventually Chuck came over
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and he's wearing his
cutoff jean jacket
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00:04:12,148 --> 00:04:13,736
and we're all wearing
our cutoff jean jackets
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00:04:13,736 --> 00:04:15,703
so that was like
standard issue back then
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00:04:15,703 --> 00:04:18,913
and on the back of
his cutoff jean jacket
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he had this drawing
on the back of it
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00:04:20,743 --> 00:04:24,264
of this crazy evil
looking creature
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00:04:24,264 --> 00:04:26,576
that said Mantas
across the top of it
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00:04:26,576 --> 00:04:28,406
and then along the
bottom it said Florida's
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original death metal band.
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00:04:30,062 --> 00:04:31,236
At that point I
hadn't heard Possessed
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00:04:31,236 --> 00:04:32,858
but I asked him about it.
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I'm like what's that
and he's like oh,
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that's my band Mantas.
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00:04:35,689 --> 00:04:37,207
We're Florida's original
death metal band.
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00:04:37,207 --> 00:04:38,726
He said it just
like it was written
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across the bottom of the jacket
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and I was like cool,
death metal, right on.
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00:04:43,524 --> 00:04:45,664
Haven't heard of that yet.
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00:04:47,287 --> 00:04:50,290
[death metal music]
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00:04:51,152 --> 00:04:53,396
[growling]
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00:04:57,262 --> 00:05:00,852
- [Male] I was lucky and found
out about underground metal.
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00:05:00,852 --> 00:05:03,372
Just by chance there
was a record shop
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00:05:03,372 --> 00:05:05,512
that carried Metal Forces and I
96
00:05:05,512 --> 00:05:08,515
got the second issue
with Dio on the cover.
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00:05:08,515 --> 00:05:09,792
You know the one.
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00:05:09,792 --> 00:05:11,276
- You didn't have access
to this stuff otherwise.
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00:05:11,276 --> 00:05:13,140
There was no other
way to get it.
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00:05:13,140 --> 00:05:15,694
These records or these
recordings weren't in stores.
101
00:05:15,694 --> 00:05:17,178
They only really had
the major label stuff
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00:05:17,178 --> 00:05:19,353
and maybe a couple of
independents, Metal Blade,
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00:05:19,353 --> 00:05:20,803
the early Roadrunner stuff.
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00:05:20,803 --> 00:05:23,530
Loudness and stuff but
there was way more out there
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00:05:23,530 --> 00:05:27,292
and because of the groundwork
No Life Til Leather
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00:05:27,292 --> 00:05:28,880
had created and this network
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00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,021
that it had created
globally, you had a lot
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00:05:32,021 --> 00:05:34,264
of hardcore fans.
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00:05:34,264 --> 00:05:36,025
- And people would
have like catalogs
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00:05:36,025 --> 00:05:37,647
of what all demos they owned.
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00:05:38,648 --> 00:05:41,375
It could be a whole photo album
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00:05:41,375 --> 00:05:44,999
full of just titles of
demos and live shows
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00:05:44,999 --> 00:05:48,140
and stuff like that and just
fill up a 90 minute tape
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00:05:48,140 --> 00:05:51,661
with however many demos or shows
you could squeeze on there.
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00:05:51,661 --> 00:05:54,354
- And then go and scribble
out a track listing,
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00:05:54,354 --> 00:05:58,634
find a package, get to a
post office and mail it,
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00:05:58,634 --> 00:06:00,360
cross your fingers
that it got there
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00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,466
and hope that whoever
you sent that tape to
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00:06:03,466 --> 00:06:05,813
will be cool enough to
send you something back.
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00:06:11,716 --> 00:06:14,132
- I didn't realize
until Frank the mailman
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00:06:14,132 --> 00:06:16,859
said Jane, I'm a little
worried about Chuck
122
00:06:16,859 --> 00:06:17,791
and I said why.
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00:06:17,791 --> 00:06:19,309
He said well, look at this.
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00:06:19,309 --> 00:06:21,070
It was addressed
to Death and stuff
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00:06:21,070 --> 00:06:24,763
and I said he's doing
all that in his room.
126
00:06:24,763 --> 00:06:27,663
- I remember that
Chuck in his bedroom
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00:06:27,663 --> 00:06:29,354
had all of these
envelopes and he
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00:06:29,354 --> 00:06:31,736
would be on the
phone and sometimes
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00:06:31,736 --> 00:06:34,324
with really big phone
bills to my parents
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00:06:34,324 --> 00:06:37,742
talking to people and
trading tapes back and forth.
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00:06:37,742 --> 00:06:39,571
- So I thought that
was really cool
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00:06:39,571 --> 00:06:41,711
that they were making their
own music and sharing it
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00:06:41,711 --> 00:06:43,748
and spreading the
music and that's
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00:06:43,748 --> 00:06:46,509
how a lot of these
bands became popular.
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00:06:46,509 --> 00:06:47,717
- Be able to put a jam box down
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00:06:47,717 --> 00:06:49,063
and hit record
with a tape player
137
00:06:49,063 --> 00:06:51,169
outside the garage with
a towel over top of it
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00:06:51,169 --> 00:06:54,897
and it sounds okay to where
people can listen to it.
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00:06:54,897 --> 00:06:56,692
- And they would play
for hours, practice
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00:06:56,692 --> 00:07:00,005
for hours, all day
Saturday, all day Sunday.
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00:07:00,005 --> 00:07:01,835
Basically you couldn't
go in your own house
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00:07:01,835 --> 00:07:03,077
on Saturday and Sunday.
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00:07:03,077 --> 00:07:05,873
- And one day he comes in,
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00:07:05,873 --> 00:07:10,153
he had a box of cassettes
and they were Death cassettes
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00:07:10,153 --> 00:07:13,191
and he had a stack of
t-shirts and he's like Freddy,
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00:07:13,191 --> 00:07:14,364
would you mind?
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00:07:14,364 --> 00:07:16,090
I wanna put my
music in your store.
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00:07:16,090 --> 00:07:17,989
Would you mind selling
it, consign it?
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00:07:17,989 --> 00:07:19,784
So I said yeah,
absolutely, I'd love to.
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00:07:19,784 --> 00:07:23,304
This is like maybe
a day or two passed,
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00:07:23,304 --> 00:07:25,514
I called Chuck and I'm like
Chuck, hey, it's Freddy
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00:07:25,514 --> 00:07:27,930
and right away
he's like oh, dude,
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00:07:27,930 --> 00:07:30,760
you don't wanna
carry my product.
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00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,591
I said no, man, I sold
out of your cassette
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and the shirt.
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00:07:35,351 --> 00:07:38,354
[death metal music]
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00:07:45,672 --> 00:07:48,916
- So a friend of mine works
for a small radio station
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00:07:48,916 --> 00:07:51,609
in our area and she
came up to me one day
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00:07:51,609 --> 00:07:53,473
and said hey, this
guy is looking
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00:07:53,473 --> 00:07:56,130
for new members for
his band called Death
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and I was just
thinking to myself
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there's no way
it's the same band
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00:08:00,376 --> 00:08:03,034
or the same guy 'cause
I'm already into this
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00:08:03,034 --> 00:08:04,932
so I said yeah, give
me the phone number.
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00:08:04,932 --> 00:08:05,761
Let me call it.
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00:08:06,624 --> 00:08:09,627
[death metal music]
167
00:08:12,181 --> 00:08:13,803
And talked on the phone.
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00:08:13,803 --> 00:08:16,634
Try to feel things out.
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00:08:16,634 --> 00:08:20,361
I was kind of worried because
I was only 17 at the time
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00:08:20,361 --> 00:08:23,123
so I'm like yeah, I like
Artillery and I like Sodom,
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00:08:23,123 --> 00:08:26,471
Slayer or whatever and
he played me some riffs.
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00:08:26,471 --> 00:08:28,197
He's like yeah, let me
show you these riffs I got.
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00:08:28,197 --> 00:08:30,475
It's this song called
Scream Bloody Gore.
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00:08:30,475 --> 00:08:31,683
Well, that's a good title.
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00:08:31,683 --> 00:08:32,615
It's to the point.
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00:08:34,099 --> 00:08:36,377
[growling]
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00:08:45,179 --> 00:08:48,355
I got the Sadus DTP
demo, Death To Posers.
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I'm like oh, okay,
a local band, cool
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00:08:50,184 --> 00:08:52,532
and they're fucking badass.
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00:08:52,532 --> 00:08:54,326
That tape is a screamer.
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00:08:54,326 --> 00:08:56,605
- And the phone rings
and one of the guys
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00:08:56,605 --> 00:08:57,675
says man, you're not
gonna believe this
183
00:08:57,675 --> 00:08:58,952
but there's a guy on the phone
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00:08:58,952 --> 00:09:00,712
saying they play in
a band called Death.
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00:09:02,369 --> 00:09:06,546
The name's not too serious
because it was too obvious.
186
00:09:07,926 --> 00:09:10,101
Well it was no big deal because
they said they got the demo
187
00:09:10,101 --> 00:09:13,035
and they liked it and
they wanted to hang out
188
00:09:13,035 --> 00:09:14,415
so like alright.
189
00:09:15,658 --> 00:09:17,971
Let's see what these
guys are all about.
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00:09:17,971 --> 00:09:20,560
- The whole band Sadus
actually piled in a car
191
00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:22,285
and they came over to my house.
192
00:09:22,285 --> 00:09:23,770
They just showed up.
193
00:09:23,770 --> 00:09:26,255
- [Steve] I met the band
Death which was two guys.
194
00:09:27,187 --> 00:09:30,570
A funny accented
guy from Florida
195
00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:34,021
and a young skinny dude that
was still in high school.
196
00:09:34,021 --> 00:09:36,748
- [Chris] They all had
like matching denim vests
197
00:09:36,748 --> 00:09:39,302
or jackets and looked
like a fucking gang
198
00:09:39,302 --> 00:09:43,341
and we went and we hung out,
smoked joints or whatever.
199
00:09:43,341 --> 00:09:46,447
- And we were fans of Rush
and Maiden and everything.
200
00:09:46,447 --> 00:09:47,966
Everybody's got the big kit.
201
00:09:47,966 --> 00:09:50,210
During the day we would go
up to where they practiced
202
00:09:50,210 --> 00:09:53,040
and Chris has a big
shining white drum kit.
203
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,250
John was looking at that
like man, that's great.
204
00:09:56,250 --> 00:09:58,045
Killer, you can do a
lot of stuff on that set
205
00:09:58,045 --> 00:09:59,875
and then when Death
would come over
206
00:09:59,875 --> 00:10:01,842
to our practice house
they were really
207
00:10:01,842 --> 00:10:04,880
digging our situation
and the room we had.
208
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,778
The deal was made pretty easy.
209
00:10:06,778 --> 00:10:09,298
It's like Chris said
man, if you guys
210
00:10:09,298 --> 00:10:11,196
let us come here and practice
211
00:10:11,196 --> 00:10:12,922
I'll leave my kit set up.
212
00:10:12,922 --> 00:10:14,130
Told John you can play it.
213
00:10:14,130 --> 00:10:15,891
John was like oh wow, cool
214
00:10:15,891 --> 00:10:17,617
and they had all these new toys.
215
00:10:17,617 --> 00:10:19,895
- At that point,
Chuck was still living
216
00:10:19,895 --> 00:10:23,623
in Antioch with this lady
who was managing the band
217
00:10:23,623 --> 00:10:26,039
and she found this little studio
218
00:10:26,039 --> 00:10:29,111
and we rented a bass 'cause
we didn't own a bass.
219
00:10:29,111 --> 00:10:30,353
It was just me and him.
220
00:10:30,353 --> 00:10:32,701
We couldn't find band
members ironically.
221
00:10:32,701 --> 00:10:34,288
It wouldn't be
like that nowadays.
222
00:10:34,288 --> 00:10:36,946
I remember being super
happy with how it came out.
223
00:10:36,946 --> 00:10:38,845
It was pretty crushing.
224
00:10:40,329 --> 00:10:42,089
[death metal music]
225
00:10:42,089 --> 00:10:44,333
[growling]
226
00:10:49,407 --> 00:10:52,444
- [Male] It just evolved
out of five different demos
227
00:10:52,444 --> 00:10:56,690
until April of 86, we
recorded our fifth demo
228
00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:59,762
and we got signed finally
to Combat Records.
229
00:10:59,762 --> 00:11:02,144
- And originally they
had a series they did
230
00:11:02,144 --> 00:11:03,663
of bands that they
were kind of afraid
231
00:11:03,663 --> 00:11:06,527
to take a chance on where
they put out a record
232
00:11:06,527 --> 00:11:08,495
with a plain white sleeve
233
00:11:08,495 --> 00:11:12,085
and a camouflage
sticker on the record
234
00:11:12,085 --> 00:11:14,294
and that's what they
wanted to do, Combat,
235
00:11:14,294 --> 00:11:16,330
and somehow she talked
them into turning it
236
00:11:16,330 --> 00:11:19,679
into a proper record
deal and Combat
237
00:11:21,715 --> 00:11:24,131
trusted us to find a
studio to record in
238
00:11:24,131 --> 00:11:26,237
which turned out
to be a big mistake
239
00:11:26,237 --> 00:11:29,171
so what happened
was Chuck wanted
240
00:11:29,171 --> 00:11:32,933
to go back to Florida
and I actually went along
241
00:11:32,933 --> 00:11:35,729
and stayed for the summer of 86
242
00:11:35,729 --> 00:11:37,697
and we looked through
the phone book,
243
00:11:37,697 --> 00:11:39,733
okay, there's a
studio in Orlando
244
00:11:39,733 --> 00:11:42,494
and we talked to
a guy named Otto
245
00:11:42,494 --> 00:11:44,565
and we were
explaining our vision.
246
00:11:44,565 --> 00:11:46,775
He just gave us the blank look
247
00:11:46,775 --> 00:11:48,880
like I have no idea what
you're talking about
248
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,882
but I'll record your band.
249
00:11:50,882 --> 00:11:53,540
We might have just been
talking Klingon to him.
250
00:11:53,540 --> 00:11:54,506
It would have been
the same thing.
251
00:11:54,506 --> 00:11:55,715
So anyways, we start recording
252
00:11:55,715 --> 00:11:57,440
and I remember the first
thing that was weird
253
00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,926
is you know how you, you know,
254
00:11:59,926 --> 00:12:02,411
tone down drum heads
by putting pads
255
00:12:02,411 --> 00:12:04,275
with like tape on
'em or something,
256
00:12:04,275 --> 00:12:08,037
he stuck a fucking
Maxipad on my floor tom.
257
00:12:08,037 --> 00:12:10,177
I'm like I don't like this.
258
00:12:10,177 --> 00:12:11,661
That's not what I would do
259
00:12:11,661 --> 00:12:12,870
and now I have to
look at this thing
260
00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:15,113
every time I hit
the drum so fuck.
261
00:12:15,113 --> 00:12:18,254
So we got through
I think seven songs
262
00:12:18,254 --> 00:12:20,705
and Combat had a
listen and they said no
263
00:12:20,705 --> 00:12:22,638
so they just wrote
off that first session
264
00:12:22,638 --> 00:12:25,745
as a mistake and booked
time in Los Angeles
265
00:12:25,745 --> 00:12:28,575
with Randy Byrnes and
that was insane for us.
266
00:12:28,575 --> 00:12:31,647
Like yeah, we can work
with fucking Randy Byrnes.
267
00:12:31,647 --> 00:12:33,925
- The key to Scream
Bloody Gore [mumbling]
268
00:12:33,925 --> 00:12:35,755
with Randy Byrnes.
269
00:12:35,755 --> 00:12:39,897
Randy had experience
recording heavy thrash
270
00:12:39,897 --> 00:12:43,383
so he was able to have
some kind of frame
271
00:12:43,383 --> 00:12:45,834
of reference and didn't
throw his arms up
272
00:12:45,834 --> 00:12:47,352
like what are you guys
trying to do here?
273
00:12:47,352 --> 00:12:49,147
It was like alright, this
is what you wanna do.
274
00:12:49,147 --> 00:12:50,355
Got it, let's do it.
275
00:12:50,355 --> 00:12:52,633
That made all the
difference in the world.
276
00:12:52,633 --> 00:12:55,602
[death metal music]
277
00:12:57,052 --> 00:12:59,157
[growling]
278
00:12:59,157 --> 00:13:02,574
♪ Now you're going to die
279
00:13:16,140 --> 00:13:19,350
For what death metal
would be defined by,
280
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:21,697
Scream Bloody Gore
is at ground zero
281
00:13:21,697 --> 00:13:23,078
because it was the first record
282
00:13:23,078 --> 00:13:25,632
that was released
on a record label
283
00:13:25,632 --> 00:13:26,806
that had a legitimate release
284
00:13:26,806 --> 00:13:28,635
because prior to
that you could not go
285
00:13:28,635 --> 00:13:31,569
into a record store and
buy a death metal record.
286
00:13:32,397 --> 00:13:35,400
[death metal music]
287
00:13:39,473 --> 00:13:40,302
- It didn't just come out.
288
00:13:40,302 --> 00:13:41,959
It kind of started.
289
00:13:41,959 --> 00:13:44,824
I know that people say
it was either Possessed,
290
00:13:44,824 --> 00:13:47,585
Seven Churches or Death,
Scream Bloody Gore
291
00:13:47,585 --> 00:13:49,104
but I listen to the performance
of Scream Bloody Gore
292
00:13:49,104 --> 00:13:50,899
in comparison to Possessed,
293
00:13:50,899 --> 00:13:53,384
I felt like Seven Churches
was kind of sloppy
294
00:13:53,384 --> 00:13:55,075
and then you hear
Scream Bloody Gore
295
00:13:55,075 --> 00:13:58,251
and it's tight and the songs
are really well produced
296
00:13:58,251 --> 00:13:59,217
and it sounds great.
297
00:14:10,090 --> 00:14:12,679
- We were sitting
in Chuck's apartment
298
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,855
and the test pressings arrived
299
00:14:15,855 --> 00:14:17,546
with two pieces of
cardboard cut out
300
00:14:17,546 --> 00:14:18,892
with the vinyl in between it
301
00:14:18,892 --> 00:14:20,445
and I guess somewhere in transit
302
00:14:20,445 --> 00:14:22,516
the temperature got to
'em and they got warped.
303
00:14:22,516 --> 00:14:24,449
- I mean playable but warped.
304
00:14:26,900 --> 00:14:29,489
I thought it would
be a good idea
305
00:14:29,489 --> 00:14:33,113
to set the test
pressing out in the sun
306
00:14:33,113 --> 00:14:37,083
and let it become soft and
then kind of flatten it again.
307
00:14:37,083 --> 00:14:38,360
- And we're sitting
there, it's almost
308
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:39,913
like waiting for a cake
to come out of the oven.
309
00:14:39,913 --> 00:14:41,742
Finally we just put
it on the turntable.
310
00:14:41,742 --> 00:14:43,089
I remember he put
the needle on it
311
00:14:43,089 --> 00:14:45,885
and the waves, the
lumps in the vinyl
312
00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:47,679
are going by and
the needle's flying.
313
00:14:47,679 --> 00:14:49,958
A couple times it got
thrown off the record.
314
00:14:49,958 --> 00:14:52,719
- It just turned
into this thing.
315
00:14:52,719 --> 00:14:54,169
[mimicking album wobbling]
316
00:14:54,169 --> 00:14:55,722
and it was completely
unplayable then.
317
00:14:55,722 --> 00:14:57,724
- That was a major thing.
318
00:14:57,724 --> 00:15:00,520
I'm on vinyl.
319
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,729
I'm 18, this is
an accomplishment.
320
00:15:02,729 --> 00:15:04,386
- And I think they
only gave us one
321
00:15:04,386 --> 00:15:06,008
because Chuck was living with me
322
00:15:06,008 --> 00:15:07,216
and I fucking ruined it.
323
00:15:09,701 --> 00:15:12,152
[death metal music]
324
00:15:12,152 --> 00:15:14,396
[growling]
325
00:15:16,467 --> 00:15:18,193
- [Chris] Steve
did learn the set
326
00:15:18,193 --> 00:15:21,265
and we jammed with him
in the Sadus jam room.
327
00:15:21,265 --> 00:15:22,542
- [Steve] And we
had plans for shows.
328
00:15:22,542 --> 00:15:24,475
We even were starting
to draw the flyers
329
00:15:24,475 --> 00:15:26,201
with the Death and Sadus logo.
330
00:15:26,201 --> 00:15:27,927
- We had the set ready
to go and all that
331
00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:29,204
and then Chuck
said hey, I'm gonna
332
00:15:29,204 --> 00:15:31,758
go back to Florida
and visit my folks
333
00:15:31,758 --> 00:15:33,967
and whatever, go
home for a while,
334
00:15:33,967 --> 00:15:35,935
and so some time went by.
335
00:15:35,935 --> 00:15:37,143
Well actually I
think quite a bit
336
00:15:37,143 --> 00:15:38,661
of time went by,
like a few months
337
00:15:38,661 --> 00:15:41,871
because I filled in with
a band called Desecration
338
00:15:41,871 --> 00:15:44,460
for a while 'cause I
didn't wanna get involved
339
00:15:44,460 --> 00:15:46,393
in another full time
band 'cause as far
340
00:15:46,393 --> 00:15:48,637
as I was concerned I
could be in Death still
341
00:15:48,637 --> 00:15:50,466
and then Chuck
finally said hey dude,
342
00:15:50,466 --> 00:15:51,743
I'm here to stay.
343
00:15:51,743 --> 00:15:53,504
I don't wanna come
back to California
344
00:15:54,505 --> 00:15:57,508
and so I was bummed.
345
00:15:57,508 --> 00:16:00,925
I'm like oh, that
sucks but okay.
346
00:16:02,064 --> 00:16:04,066
He's like well, if you
wanna come move out here
347
00:16:04,066 --> 00:16:06,344
we'll just keep on it and
get some other members
348
00:16:06,344 --> 00:16:09,830
and just keep moving forward.
349
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:15,629
- [Male] Massacre did a
tour of the east coast.
350
00:16:15,629 --> 00:16:17,804
We came home from
that tour and--
351
00:16:17,804 --> 00:16:19,909
- We were supposed open
for Megadeth and Overkill
352
00:16:19,909 --> 00:16:22,740
at the armory in Tampa
and we got to the show
353
00:16:22,740 --> 00:16:25,501
and we're told we
weren't gonna play.
354
00:16:25,501 --> 00:16:27,296
- Megadeth's management had
one of their other bands
355
00:16:27,296 --> 00:16:29,919
come in, Massacre was
kicked off the bill.
356
00:16:29,919 --> 00:16:32,922
Well at that same show some guy
357
00:16:32,922 --> 00:16:35,891
came up to Rick, said
hey, Chuck's in town.
358
00:16:35,891 --> 00:16:37,375
He moved back to Orlando.
359
00:16:37,375 --> 00:16:41,897
So a few days after that Rick,
he went to Chuck's house.
360
00:16:41,897 --> 00:16:43,105
- Without calling
him or anything
361
00:16:43,105 --> 00:16:44,520
showed up at the guy's house.
362
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,557
He doesn't have a
freaking clue why I'm here
363
00:16:46,557 --> 00:16:50,147
so I just said hey, man,
this is what's going on.
364
00:16:50,147 --> 00:16:52,183
If you have any
interest give me a call.
365
00:16:52,183 --> 00:16:54,461
So he called me
the next day and I
366
00:16:54,461 --> 00:16:56,774
called Bill and Terry and
they were really excited.
367
00:16:56,774 --> 00:16:59,535
- We learned a few songs and
we got together and jammed.
368
00:16:59,535 --> 00:17:01,123
It had been literally
three or four weeks
369
00:17:01,123 --> 00:17:02,676
that we were together.
370
00:17:02,676 --> 00:17:04,851
The first show was at
Milwaukee Metal Fest.
371
00:17:04,851 --> 00:17:06,922
I remember actually
on the flight
372
00:17:06,922 --> 00:17:09,580
going to Milwaukee
going over each song
373
00:17:11,030 --> 00:17:14,447
because that's how fresh
the songs were in my mind.
374
00:17:14,447 --> 00:17:17,450
[death metal music]
375
00:17:20,970 --> 00:17:23,214
[growling]
376
00:17:29,289 --> 00:17:30,808
- The United States back then,
377
00:17:30,808 --> 00:17:33,707
they really didn't have
these three day festivals
378
00:17:33,707 --> 00:17:36,055
and Death was one of
the bands on there
379
00:17:36,055 --> 00:17:38,747
and they were I guess somewhere
380
00:17:38,747 --> 00:17:40,783
like in the afternoon.
381
00:17:40,783 --> 00:17:42,371
- I remember being
in the McDonald's
382
00:17:42,371 --> 00:17:44,063
next door to the
Eagles Auditorium
383
00:17:44,063 --> 00:17:45,719
which was where
this place was at
384
00:17:45,719 --> 00:17:48,446
and these kids were talking
about the Mutilation demo.
385
00:17:48,446 --> 00:17:50,138
These kids, they
were just normal kids
386
00:17:50,138 --> 00:17:51,622
just like me and they were like,
387
00:17:51,622 --> 00:17:53,072
they couldn't wait to see Death
388
00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:54,418
and they were talking
about the Mutilation demo.
389
00:17:54,418 --> 00:17:56,109
- Jack had been in
contact with someone
390
00:17:56,109 --> 00:17:58,456
at Combat who said
we have this new act
391
00:17:58,456 --> 00:18:00,631
and their record had only
been out a short time.
392
00:18:00,631 --> 00:18:03,910
I heard the record
literally just one
393
00:18:03,910 --> 00:18:06,671
or two songs and didn't
pay much attention to it
394
00:18:06,671 --> 00:18:08,984
so I stood in front of the stage
395
00:18:08,984 --> 00:18:11,849
and I watched all these
other standard thrash
396
00:18:11,849 --> 00:18:14,541
and metal bands play
397
00:18:14,541 --> 00:18:15,818
and then when Death came on
398
00:18:15,818 --> 00:18:18,442
there was sort of
an anticipation.
399
00:18:18,442 --> 00:18:19,615
- And I remember
when Death played,
400
00:18:19,615 --> 00:18:20,892
one thing I remember about Chuck
401
00:18:20,892 --> 00:18:23,067
was just he would
kind of stand kind
402
00:18:23,067 --> 00:18:25,345
of stiff, kind of
still and when he'd
403
00:18:25,345 --> 00:18:27,002
open his mouth for one
of this big screams
404
00:18:27,002 --> 00:18:28,003
his tongue would
stick out a little bit
405
00:18:28,003 --> 00:18:30,695
and he'd just omit this like--
406
00:18:30,695 --> 00:18:32,939
[growling]
407
00:18:41,913 --> 00:18:44,399
- So I was back
stage meeting people,
408
00:18:44,399 --> 00:18:46,297
talking to people
and I eventually
409
00:18:46,297 --> 00:18:48,127
made my way over and
introduced myself,
410
00:18:48,127 --> 00:18:50,094
said my name is Eric Greif,
411
00:18:50,094 --> 00:18:52,131
I'm a manager promoter dude
412
00:18:52,131 --> 00:18:54,305
and I live here in Milwaukee.
413
00:18:54,305 --> 00:18:55,789
He had a card that
said Death on it
414
00:18:55,789 --> 00:18:59,552
and had an address
for giving out
415
00:18:59,552 --> 00:19:01,657
to people that he
tape traded with
416
00:19:01,657 --> 00:19:05,903
and I got in contact with him
417
00:19:05,903 --> 00:19:07,767
and that was like
their first real tour
418
00:19:07,767 --> 00:19:09,493
where they came up that far,
419
00:19:09,493 --> 00:19:11,909
had played shows on the
way in, on the way back.
420
00:19:14,118 --> 00:19:16,224
- Started rehearsing
more and more
421
00:19:16,224 --> 00:19:18,018
after that Milwaukee Metal Fest
422
00:19:18,018 --> 00:19:19,468
and when word came down that we
423
00:19:19,468 --> 00:19:20,849
had a tour lined up we'd already
424
00:19:20,849 --> 00:19:23,265
started writing
new songs and Chuck
425
00:19:23,265 --> 00:19:24,922
was presenting the
songs at practice.
426
00:19:24,922 --> 00:19:26,751
Hey, check out these riffs.
427
00:19:26,751 --> 00:19:27,994
A couple of songs
Chuck had already
428
00:19:27,994 --> 00:19:31,929
completely mapped out,
had 'em already written.
429
00:19:31,929 --> 00:19:34,276
He would just play and Bill
would put beats to 'em.
430
00:19:34,276 --> 00:19:36,451
We actually started
playing a few
431
00:19:36,451 --> 00:19:40,903
of the songs from Leprosy on
the Scream Bloody Gore tour
432
00:19:40,903 --> 00:19:43,941
we did, we'd already had
two or three of those songs.
433
00:19:44,873 --> 00:19:47,876
[death metal music]
434
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:53,882
- I got a call from Dan saying
I got this record to do.
435
00:19:53,882 --> 00:19:56,022
They call it death metal,
it's the band Death
436
00:19:56,022 --> 00:19:58,680
and Scott, your assistant,
he'd do the record with me
437
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,026
'cause I always worked with Dan
438
00:20:00,026 --> 00:20:01,752
with Savatage and
stuff like that
439
00:20:01,752 --> 00:20:03,892
and then I also went and Scott
440
00:20:03,892 --> 00:20:06,170
asked me, you help me
set the mix up right
441
00:20:06,170 --> 00:20:08,517
so I went in and started the mix
442
00:20:08,517 --> 00:20:10,139
but for me, Chuck
and I were just
443
00:20:10,139 --> 00:20:11,658
telling jokes to each
other while I was doing it,
444
00:20:11,658 --> 00:20:13,315
then Scott had to do
all the hard work.
445
00:20:13,315 --> 00:20:15,869
- And when I heard the
final mix at the time,
446
00:20:15,869 --> 00:20:17,664
I heard, I thought
it was amazing.
447
00:20:17,664 --> 00:20:19,183
Now when I listen back to it
448
00:20:19,183 --> 00:20:21,703
the drums are a hair loud,
blah blah blah, whatever
449
00:20:21,703 --> 00:20:23,152
but I thought at the time it
450
00:20:23,152 --> 00:20:25,431
was just the most amazing
thing I'd ever heard in my life
451
00:20:25,431 --> 00:20:27,571
but it was my first
time in a studio.
452
00:20:27,571 --> 00:20:28,848
It was all new to me.
453
00:20:28,848 --> 00:20:30,332
The other guys had
been to the studio
454
00:20:30,332 --> 00:20:32,092
recording an album or demos.
455
00:20:33,611 --> 00:20:35,199
I had Scott Byrnes
staring at me.
456
00:20:35,199 --> 00:20:37,995
Rick, Chuck, Bill looking at me.
457
00:20:37,995 --> 00:20:38,858
The producer looking at me.
458
00:20:38,858 --> 00:20:40,480
It's like come on.
459
00:20:41,999 --> 00:20:43,932
- He was a nervous wreck.
460
00:20:43,932 --> 00:20:45,278
It's not like he
can't play the songs.
461
00:20:45,278 --> 00:20:47,073
He played 'em on tour.
462
00:20:47,073 --> 00:20:48,143
Play 'em at rehearsal.
463
00:20:50,283 --> 00:20:51,974
- I was kind of thrown
in the fire on that
464
00:20:53,182 --> 00:20:55,564
and I basically had
an anxiety attack,
465
00:20:55,564 --> 00:20:56,876
panic attack at the studio
466
00:20:56,876 --> 00:20:59,292
so I just asked Chuck, hey dude,
467
00:20:59,292 --> 00:21:02,813
to save time and money
can you do the bass
468
00:21:02,813 --> 00:21:04,849
and at the time there
was no problem at all.
469
00:21:04,849 --> 00:21:06,610
Nothing was even
said about it really.
470
00:21:06,610 --> 00:21:07,852
Chuck's like yeah dude.
471
00:21:07,852 --> 00:21:09,026
I did the bass on
Scream Bloody Gore.
472
00:21:09,026 --> 00:21:10,372
It's no problem.
473
00:21:11,235 --> 00:21:14,238
[death metal music]
474
00:21:18,656 --> 00:21:21,107
- I was living in the
dorms at the time,
475
00:21:21,107 --> 00:21:23,523
University of Iowa,
and my roommate
476
00:21:23,523 --> 00:21:26,285
and my dorm partners,
the other guys
477
00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:28,287
who lived in the
hall, pretty used
478
00:21:28,287 --> 00:21:31,186
to the metal that I
would play fairly loudly
479
00:21:31,186 --> 00:21:32,877
at the time throughout the day
480
00:21:32,877 --> 00:21:34,293
and I remember getting Leprosy
481
00:21:34,293 --> 00:21:36,018
and playing it full blast
482
00:21:36,018 --> 00:21:38,020
and just it made people aghast.
483
00:21:38,020 --> 00:21:38,952
What is this music?
484
00:21:38,952 --> 00:21:41,334
It just was so obscene to ears
485
00:21:41,334 --> 00:21:42,956
that had never heard
anything like it.
486
00:22:00,146 --> 00:22:02,217
- What really kind of hit in 88
487
00:22:02,217 --> 00:22:04,392
is the grindcore movement.
488
00:22:04,392 --> 00:22:06,842
Like Napalm Death released
their second record,
489
00:22:06,842 --> 00:22:08,982
Carcass releases
their first record.
490
00:22:08,982 --> 00:22:13,193
Earache continues to grow
and crank out records.
491
00:22:13,193 --> 00:22:14,505
- All that stuff was
starting to bubble
492
00:22:14,505 --> 00:22:15,955
in the underground.
493
00:22:15,955 --> 00:22:18,889
So Leprosy came in and seemed
to have a few more peers
494
00:22:18,889 --> 00:22:22,755
in its weird little
extreme world.
495
00:22:22,755 --> 00:22:23,963
Productions were
getting slicker.
496
00:22:23,963 --> 00:22:25,378
Slayer had South of Heaven.
497
00:22:25,378 --> 00:22:27,346
Metallica came out
with Injustice For All.
498
00:22:27,346 --> 00:22:28,795
Voivod were maturing.
499
00:22:28,795 --> 00:22:30,279
First Sanctuary album.
500
00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:32,351
Fates Warning No Exit came out.
501
00:22:32,351 --> 00:22:33,524
That was a pretty big
album at the time.
502
00:22:33,524 --> 00:22:34,767
They're very dry.
503
00:22:34,767 --> 00:22:37,356
They're very sort
of clean albums.
504
00:22:37,356 --> 00:22:41,670
Leprosy was still just
total ferocity and brutality
505
00:22:41,670 --> 00:22:44,777
and dirt but yet it was
being conveyed really well,
506
00:22:44,777 --> 00:22:46,365
the recording was really great.
507
00:22:47,745 --> 00:22:51,128
- When he was writing
he had hooks in mind.
508
00:22:51,128 --> 00:22:55,166
Even as early back as Pull
the Plug or Born Dead.
509
00:22:55,166 --> 00:22:58,791
Remember the vocals,
you remember the riff
510
00:22:58,791 --> 00:23:00,655
but you remember the hook.
511
00:23:00,655 --> 00:23:02,415
There were choruses
in those songs
512
00:23:02,415 --> 00:23:05,314
that people came back to
and at the end of the day
513
00:23:05,314 --> 00:23:07,627
in spite of all the
early brutality,
514
00:23:07,627 --> 00:23:10,250
in spite of all the
later progressiveness
515
00:23:10,250 --> 00:23:13,909
I think at its core he just
wanted to write good songs.
516
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:18,845
- It was just super heavy but
also technical but catchy.
517
00:23:18,845 --> 00:23:22,470
It was memorable and I
think that's what Chuck
518
00:23:22,470 --> 00:23:24,920
took from all of the
bands that he admired
519
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,234
is lot of these bands that
he really looked up to
520
00:23:28,234 --> 00:23:31,168
and loved to listen to, they
just wrote really good songs
521
00:23:31,168 --> 00:23:34,171
and really catchy songs and you
522
00:23:34,171 --> 00:23:35,966
can be the heaviest
band in the world
523
00:23:35,966 --> 00:23:37,346
but you can still write a hook
524
00:23:37,346 --> 00:23:39,556
and write a catchy song.
525
00:23:39,556 --> 00:23:42,559
[death metal music]
526
00:24:02,302 --> 00:24:03,476
- 'Cause we didn't have a
booking agent at the time.
527
00:24:03,476 --> 00:24:04,995
Scott, who was a
good friend of ours
528
00:24:04,995 --> 00:24:06,548
that actually
worked at the label
529
00:24:06,548 --> 00:24:09,344
and he's like hey, there's
a tour if you want it.
530
00:24:09,344 --> 00:24:11,173
It's you guys and Dark Angel.
531
00:24:11,173 --> 00:24:13,797
- So two of the five acts
that were in the video
532
00:24:13,797 --> 00:24:15,350
would tour together
and it sounded
533
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:17,525
like a great idea on paper.
534
00:24:17,525 --> 00:24:21,977
- Combat, our record label,
they mentioned to Death,
535
00:24:21,977 --> 00:24:25,464
to Chuck or somebody,
that it's equal billing
536
00:24:25,464 --> 00:24:30,261
meaning that in the
ads, on the posters,
537
00:24:30,261 --> 00:24:32,609
on the gig fliers, you're
gonna have Dark Angel
538
00:24:32,609 --> 00:24:33,679
and you're gonna have
Death right next to it.
539
00:24:33,679 --> 00:24:34,990
Equal billing.
540
00:24:34,990 --> 00:24:37,406
That does not mean
co-headlining.
541
00:24:39,443 --> 00:24:41,169
We started butting
heads over it.
542
00:24:47,037 --> 00:24:48,556
- [Male] The wording was
just simply that Death
543
00:24:48,556 --> 00:24:50,592
would be billed at
the same percentage
544
00:24:50,592 --> 00:24:52,732
of space or whatever.
545
00:24:52,732 --> 00:24:54,665
Clearly Dark Angel
was more well known
546
00:24:54,665 --> 00:24:58,635
than Death and had an album
out more than Death did.
547
00:24:58,635 --> 00:25:01,879
It was implied that Dark Angel
really was the headliner.
548
00:25:01,879 --> 00:25:03,916
- You know, to me
I'm like whatever.
549
00:25:03,916 --> 00:25:06,090
We're on tour
promoting our album.
550
00:25:06,090 --> 00:25:08,645
Sure enough, somewhere
around Milwaukee
551
00:25:08,645 --> 00:25:11,820
or Utah or somewhere,
that was it.
552
00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:15,721
- I just remember an
incident over drum risers
553
00:25:15,721 --> 00:25:18,033
and they wanted Bill
to set up in front
554
00:25:18,033 --> 00:25:20,795
of the riser and Gene
to set up on the riser
555
00:25:20,795 --> 00:25:22,624
and everyone was
rolling their eyes.
556
00:25:22,624 --> 00:25:26,870
- His demands were starting
to get rather cockamamie.
557
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:30,390
When Chuck, probably
for the 10th time,
558
00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:31,564
said we're leaving the tour,
559
00:25:31,564 --> 00:25:34,222
this time our tour
manager said go ahead.
560
00:25:34,222 --> 00:25:36,327
If you don't wanna be here
we don't wanna keep you here.
561
00:25:36,327 --> 00:25:39,123
- [Male] So they turned around
from wherever they were,
562
00:25:40,262 --> 00:25:43,542
Buttville, Montana,
whatever, and went home.
563
00:25:50,997 --> 00:25:52,654
- Again, first time in Europe
564
00:25:52,654 --> 00:25:56,900
which seemed like we all
wanted to go to Europe so bad
565
00:25:56,900 --> 00:25:58,487
and we got there,
just seemed like
566
00:25:58,487 --> 00:26:00,351
it was just an
alien world to us.
567
00:26:00,351 --> 00:26:01,560
Equipment was in one van.
568
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,009
We were in another
van traveling.
569
00:26:03,009 --> 00:26:06,737
- I think the van was driven
by the promoter's wife
570
00:26:06,737 --> 00:26:08,118
and he would just
get on the phone
571
00:26:08,118 --> 00:26:11,880
and be like I'm gonna die.
572
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,641
- We got hotels every
night which whatever,
573
00:26:13,641 --> 00:26:15,781
we were sleeping,
there was no problem
574
00:26:15,781 --> 00:26:19,405
but after about halfway
through that tour,
575
00:26:19,405 --> 00:26:21,407
again, Chuck's like
I've had enough of this
576
00:26:21,407 --> 00:26:24,341
so we quit the
tour and came home.
577
00:26:25,584 --> 00:26:28,587
- Yeah, that was
kind of the pattern
578
00:26:28,587 --> 00:26:30,485
was when I was in
Milwaukee trying
579
00:26:30,485 --> 00:26:32,694
to run things for
Death in my office
580
00:26:34,351 --> 00:26:36,595
a lot of the time I
felt like I needed
581
00:26:36,595 --> 00:26:38,010
to physically be there.
582
00:26:40,115 --> 00:26:42,393
- They would rehearse
in Chuck's mom's garage
583
00:26:42,393 --> 00:26:44,154
in Altamont Springs
and that was three
584
00:26:44,154 --> 00:26:45,776
and a half hour drive.
585
00:26:45,776 --> 00:26:49,711
We would load into my
Wagoneer and go to his house,
586
00:26:49,711 --> 00:26:51,230
watch the band rehearse.
587
00:26:51,230 --> 00:26:53,301
- [Male] Right until then,
before Rick was released
588
00:26:53,301 --> 00:26:55,165
from the band we
actually started working
589
00:26:55,165 --> 00:26:57,719
on one of the songs that
was on Spiritual Healing,
590
00:26:57,719 --> 00:26:59,376
I think it may have been
the song Spiritual Healing.
591
00:26:59,376 --> 00:27:01,723
- Legion of Doom, which
was one of our first songs,
592
00:27:01,723 --> 00:27:04,346
other than we had a
song called Mantas,
593
00:27:04,346 --> 00:27:07,833
Legion of Doom riff was
on Spiritual Healing.
594
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,734
[mimicking riff]
595
00:27:12,734 --> 00:27:15,634
[death metal song]
596
00:27:22,537 --> 00:27:25,609
- I was on the road
coming from New York
597
00:27:25,609 --> 00:27:27,749
heading back to Milwaukee
598
00:27:27,749 --> 00:27:29,717
but I didn't go the
normal way that I would
599
00:27:29,717 --> 00:27:31,891
which was south
of the great lakes
600
00:27:31,891 --> 00:27:34,480
and straight across
on the interstate,
601
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,447
I actually went through Toronto
602
00:27:36,447 --> 00:27:39,899
because I wanted to go
to the Relativity office
603
00:27:39,899 --> 00:27:43,765
and it was in Toronto
that I was at a payphone
604
00:27:43,765 --> 00:27:45,077
and talked to Chuck and Chuck
605
00:27:45,077 --> 00:27:46,837
said I've been thinking about it
606
00:27:46,837 --> 00:27:51,704
and I wanna get rid of Rick
and so I phoned Rick right away
607
00:27:51,704 --> 00:27:53,154
from that same phone.
608
00:27:53,154 --> 00:27:54,189
- Eric had given me a call.
609
00:27:54,189 --> 00:27:55,812
I was in New Jersey at the time.
610
00:27:59,539 --> 00:28:00,782
Chuck called me
first and asked me
611
00:28:00,782 --> 00:28:03,889
if I had my guitar and
I lied and I said yes
612
00:28:03,889 --> 00:28:06,270
but I didn't because I knew
why he was asking me that.
613
00:28:06,270 --> 00:28:09,239
I'm out, hanging out, I'm not
practicing, this and that.
614
00:28:09,239 --> 00:28:11,690
- Rick was very gentlemanly.
615
00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:15,107
It was almost as if he knew
the call was gonna come.
616
00:28:15,107 --> 00:28:17,592
Now I don't know if
he sensed that Chuck
617
00:28:17,592 --> 00:28:19,076
was going in a new direction.
618
00:28:19,076 --> 00:28:20,560
- I assumed that's
why I was let go
619
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,908
'cause I know he was looking
to broaden his horizons
620
00:28:22,908 --> 00:28:25,842
and it was his
thing so I have no,
621
00:28:25,842 --> 00:28:27,326
I'm not gonna fight the guy.
622
00:28:27,326 --> 00:28:29,086
It's not gonna help me stay
in the band any better.
623
00:28:29,086 --> 00:28:33,159
- For Chuck, I think his
vision was always evolving
624
00:28:33,159 --> 00:28:36,473
and part of the problem
was that the people
625
00:28:36,473 --> 00:28:40,891
that he needed to
execute it at one point
626
00:28:40,891 --> 00:28:43,722
in the band aren't
the same people
627
00:28:43,722 --> 00:28:45,171
that he needs to
execute that vision
628
00:28:45,171 --> 00:28:46,655
at another point in the band.
629
00:28:47,587 --> 00:28:50,590
[death metal music]
630
00:28:58,426 --> 00:29:01,912
- And so we had
this tour of Mexico
631
00:29:01,912 --> 00:29:03,569
that we had to do and we were
632
00:29:03,569 --> 00:29:05,744
without a second guitar player.
633
00:29:05,744 --> 00:29:07,987
- So we had been going up there
634
00:29:07,987 --> 00:29:09,678
so there was this
kind of relationship
635
00:29:09,678 --> 00:29:11,577
and he knew we had
a certain ability
636
00:29:11,577 --> 00:29:12,785
on our instruments.
637
00:29:12,785 --> 00:29:14,166
He could see that
we were very serious
638
00:29:14,166 --> 00:29:16,409
about practicing our
instruments and getting better
639
00:29:16,409 --> 00:29:19,205
and so Paul was the first call
640
00:29:19,205 --> 00:29:20,828
when they were having problems.
641
00:29:26,695 --> 00:29:28,836
- I met Paul and he
had to learn the songs
642
00:29:28,836 --> 00:29:30,389
and all of that.
643
00:29:30,389 --> 00:29:32,011
I sat next to him on the plane
644
00:29:33,219 --> 00:29:36,119
going to Mexico City
and the entire time
645
00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:37,948
I was trying to convince
him to join Death
646
00:29:37,948 --> 00:29:38,984
but he would not do it.
647
00:29:38,984 --> 00:29:39,847
He said no.
648
00:29:40,709 --> 00:29:42,125
He said I've got Cynic.
649
00:29:42,125 --> 00:29:43,160
I had to respect that.
650
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,093
I just had to finally give up
651
00:29:45,093 --> 00:29:47,095
and then when we
had the pandemonium
652
00:29:47,095 --> 00:29:50,789
at the tour of kind
of death mania,
653
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:52,238
I would have thought
that that would
654
00:29:52,238 --> 00:29:54,171
have been enough for anybody
to wanna join the band
655
00:29:54,171 --> 00:29:56,898
and he had a record deal,
he would have just walked in
656
00:29:56,898 --> 00:29:58,520
but he just said no.
657
00:29:59,867 --> 00:30:01,247
We had to go to plan B.
658
00:30:03,215 --> 00:30:06,218
[death metal music]
659
00:30:12,672 --> 00:30:15,434
- [Male] I had met
James at a club in Tampa
660
00:30:15,434 --> 00:30:19,852
so when time came to try to
look for another guitar player
661
00:30:19,852 --> 00:30:20,853
I recommended James.
662
00:30:20,853 --> 00:30:22,096
I knew he was a shredder.
663
00:30:22,096 --> 00:30:26,238
- James has a very
keen sense of melody
664
00:30:26,238 --> 00:30:27,722
in terms of guitar solos.
665
00:30:27,722 --> 00:30:29,206
There really wasn't anybody else
666
00:30:29,206 --> 00:30:32,382
who played like James on death
metal records to that point.
667
00:30:32,382 --> 00:30:36,420
He just had like this great feel
668
00:30:36,420 --> 00:30:38,284
for how a solo should be.
669
00:30:38,284 --> 00:30:40,114
- And it really
worked for where Death
670
00:30:40,114 --> 00:30:42,564
was going with the new material.
671
00:30:42,564 --> 00:30:45,567
So this was the right guy to
bring on at the right time.
672
00:30:56,682 --> 00:30:59,409
- The first taste
of Death that I got
673
00:30:59,409 --> 00:31:01,721
would have been 1990, it would
have been Spiritual Healing.
674
00:31:01,721 --> 00:31:05,656
I was 15 then and I was
a fan of heavy metal.
675
00:31:05,656 --> 00:31:07,969
I liked stuff like
Metallica or Iron Maiden
676
00:31:07,969 --> 00:31:10,765
or Def Leppard or whatever
and I had a friend of mine
677
00:31:10,765 --> 00:31:13,457
who was infinitely more
adventurous than I was
678
00:31:13,457 --> 00:31:16,736
and he acquired
Spiritual Healing
679
00:31:16,736 --> 00:31:20,326
and Beneath the Remains and
he basically played them
680
00:31:20,326 --> 00:31:22,708
for me and I recoiled in horror.
681
00:31:22,708 --> 00:31:24,123
I was just like I
don't know how anybody
682
00:31:24,123 --> 00:31:24,952
can be into this.
683
00:31:24,952 --> 00:31:26,885
This is crazy.
684
00:31:26,885 --> 00:31:28,645
You really like this?
685
00:31:28,645 --> 00:31:33,443
And so I retreated to
Injustice for All or whatever.
686
00:31:37,447 --> 00:31:40,622
♪ Altering the future
687
00:31:46,007 --> 00:31:48,699
- And Spiritual Healing was
just a little bit less heralded
688
00:31:48,699 --> 00:31:50,632
because it was the third one.
689
00:31:50,632 --> 00:31:52,082
It wasn't anything new anymore
690
00:31:52,082 --> 00:31:54,843
yet he was still taking
it into new areas.
691
00:31:54,843 --> 00:31:57,743
It was just as
powerful, I think,
692
00:31:57,743 --> 00:31:59,745
as the first two
albums lyrically
693
00:31:59,745 --> 00:32:02,748
because it was horror
but it was real horror.
694
00:32:02,748 --> 00:32:04,163
It was stuff that was
actually happening
695
00:32:04,163 --> 00:32:06,407
and these awful things.
696
00:32:06,407 --> 00:32:10,031
- Death is a band that I
can put my personal outlook
697
00:32:10,031 --> 00:32:12,309
on certain things in life into
698
00:32:12,309 --> 00:32:13,793
and I think it means a lot more
699
00:32:13,793 --> 00:32:15,278
when you're singing about
something other people
700
00:32:15,278 --> 00:32:16,348
can relate to.
701
00:32:16,348 --> 00:32:17,797
That's why you don't hear Death
702
00:32:17,797 --> 00:32:21,387
singing about demons flying down
703
00:32:21,387 --> 00:32:24,908
and plucking nuns
from the Earth.
704
00:32:24,908 --> 00:32:26,082
That's idiotic.
705
00:32:26,082 --> 00:32:28,670
That's putting a
limit on people's--
706
00:32:28,670 --> 00:32:30,845
- So I think Pull the Plug
might have been the gateway
707
00:32:30,845 --> 00:32:32,951
to what happened on
Spiritual Healing
708
00:32:32,951 --> 00:32:34,366
because Pull the
Plug you can look at
709
00:32:34,366 --> 00:32:38,266
as maybe him wondering
about assisted suicide
710
00:32:38,266 --> 00:32:42,167
or being kept alive artificially
711
00:32:42,167 --> 00:32:45,032
and that obviously has
real life connotations.
712
00:32:46,274 --> 00:32:47,862
♪ A way to freedom
713
00:32:47,862 --> 00:32:52,591
♪ People are stupid
enough to believe it ♪
714
00:32:58,493 --> 00:33:01,393
- James and Chuck
started clashing a bit.
715
00:33:01,393 --> 00:33:03,429
I think it was just
egos a little bit.
716
00:33:03,429 --> 00:33:05,052
James is a good friend of mine
717
00:33:05,052 --> 00:33:08,400
but he was a bit
quirky and at times
718
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,471
it might rub people raw.
719
00:33:10,471 --> 00:33:11,955
It had been building up
between him and Chuck
720
00:33:11,955 --> 00:33:13,129
that whole tour.
721
00:33:15,234 --> 00:33:17,685
Chuck just snapped
and said that's it.
722
00:33:17,685 --> 00:33:19,273
You're out of the band.
723
00:33:19,273 --> 00:33:21,723
Unfortunately James rode home
724
00:33:21,723 --> 00:33:24,002
with one of the opening
bands that was stationed,
725
00:33:24,002 --> 00:33:25,244
they stayed with
us the whole time.
726
00:33:25,244 --> 00:33:27,936
We didn't fly home,
we stayed on the tour.
727
00:33:27,936 --> 00:33:31,147
We came home for a couple months
728
00:33:32,355 --> 00:33:35,703
and we actually started
writing songs for Human
729
00:33:35,703 --> 00:33:37,015
and we were to go Europe.
730
00:33:37,015 --> 00:33:39,017
Walt [mumbling]
was our sound man.
731
00:33:39,017 --> 00:33:40,949
We'd been doing it for
years, he'd run sound for us.
732
00:33:40,949 --> 00:33:42,123
Call him up, said hey.
733
00:33:42,123 --> 00:33:43,849
We're fixing to do a tour.
734
00:33:43,849 --> 00:33:45,851
We need a lead guitar player.
735
00:33:45,851 --> 00:33:47,059
Are you interested?
736
00:33:47,059 --> 00:33:49,751
He said yes so Walt
drove from Texas,
737
00:33:49,751 --> 00:33:51,305
he stopped by Chuck's house.
738
00:33:53,962 --> 00:33:55,964
Mercyful Fate was blasting
through the stereo.
739
00:33:55,964 --> 00:33:57,449
Someone was vacuuming.
740
00:33:57,449 --> 00:33:59,520
Walt's knocking on the
door, no one's answering.
741
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,591
He sees someone peek
out of the blinds
742
00:34:01,591 --> 00:34:02,592
then the music turns off
743
00:34:02,592 --> 00:34:05,112
but no one would
answer the door.
744
00:34:05,112 --> 00:34:08,046
So he calls me, hey,
what's up with Chuck?
745
00:34:09,081 --> 00:34:10,669
He won't open the door.
746
00:34:10,669 --> 00:34:12,498
I said come to my house.
747
00:34:12,498 --> 00:34:15,501
There's a bunch
of crap going on.
748
00:34:15,501 --> 00:34:19,609
- He really dreaded
getting on the plane
749
00:34:19,609 --> 00:34:22,267
and going to Europe
and he was also
750
00:34:22,267 --> 00:34:24,476
going through a
period of fatigue
751
00:34:24,476 --> 00:34:27,065
with keeping a
personal life going.
752
00:34:28,273 --> 00:34:30,896
His pets, his family,
his girlfriend
753
00:34:30,896 --> 00:34:35,107
and at that point in time
we were in a litigation
754
00:34:35,107 --> 00:34:36,660
with each other.
755
00:34:36,660 --> 00:34:38,628
- He never said anything to
us about what was going on.
756
00:34:38,628 --> 00:34:41,148
It seemed like
everything was alright
757
00:34:41,148 --> 00:34:44,323
but the thing with
Chuck is, was,
758
00:34:45,497 --> 00:34:48,051
if he turns his
back on something,
759
00:34:48,051 --> 00:34:50,226
over time it will go away.
760
00:34:50,226 --> 00:34:52,435
A couple tours had been
canceled in the past.
761
00:34:52,435 --> 00:34:53,643
The same thing.
762
00:34:53,643 --> 00:34:55,576
Cancel the tour, lay
low for a couple months
763
00:34:55,576 --> 00:34:56,991
and then everything smooths out.
764
00:34:56,991 --> 00:34:58,475
But we had signed
contracts and we
765
00:34:58,475 --> 00:35:00,063
had all this stuff
laid out already.
766
00:35:00,063 --> 00:35:01,271
Merch was already made.
767
00:35:02,445 --> 00:35:04,861
Techs were already
hired from creator,
768
00:35:04,861 --> 00:35:06,311
there's a lot on the line.
769
00:35:06,311 --> 00:35:07,588
So I called the booking agent,
770
00:35:07,588 --> 00:35:09,935
the booking agent
called Chuck's mom,
771
00:35:09,935 --> 00:35:11,730
she was Chuck's
power of attorney
772
00:35:11,730 --> 00:35:13,697
and basically what we worked out
773
00:35:13,697 --> 00:35:16,528
stated that Chuck
wasn't going to Europe
774
00:35:16,528 --> 00:35:18,737
for the tour, he didn't
want any part of it.
775
00:35:18,737 --> 00:35:20,325
He wasn't gonna be
held responsible for it
776
00:35:20,325 --> 00:35:23,086
so me, Bill and Walt
drove to Orlando
777
00:35:24,294 --> 00:35:26,848
and Chuck had signed the paper,
778
00:35:26,848 --> 00:35:28,885
we signed the paper,
everyone got a copy
779
00:35:28,885 --> 00:35:30,128
and that was that.
780
00:35:30,128 --> 00:35:31,681
- And so they left
and they got Louis
781
00:35:31,681 --> 00:35:35,719
and they got Walter
and then I got the call
782
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,307
from my lawyer.
783
00:35:37,307 --> 00:35:39,758
You're never gonna guess
who just called me.
784
00:35:39,758 --> 00:35:41,311
- Look, they were young
785
00:35:43,002 --> 00:35:46,799
and I think that
everybody had their points
786
00:35:46,799 --> 00:35:48,215
and everybody had
their feelings.
787
00:35:48,215 --> 00:35:50,941
At first Chuck
was angry about it
788
00:35:50,941 --> 00:35:53,979
but I think as the days wore on
789
00:35:53,979 --> 00:35:56,982
I think that he
was more thoughtful
790
00:35:56,982 --> 00:35:58,811
and pensive about it and then
791
00:35:58,811 --> 00:36:00,537
it turned into,
instead of anger,
792
00:36:00,537 --> 00:36:03,264
more of a sadness about it.
793
00:36:03,264 --> 00:36:05,232
- You know, Death touring
and I'm in Florida.
794
00:36:05,232 --> 00:36:10,237
It's just really
incredible concept
795
00:36:11,376 --> 00:36:13,481
and it depressed
me at certain times
796
00:36:13,481 --> 00:36:15,173
and I tried to get
over there at one point
797
00:36:15,173 --> 00:36:17,554
and it's just not a
very good situation.
798
00:36:17,554 --> 00:36:21,282
There's a lot bad things
going on out there
799
00:36:21,282 --> 00:36:24,009
as far as feelings
towards me in general
800
00:36:24,009 --> 00:36:28,462
and so I didn't make it
out there unfortunately.
801
00:36:28,462 --> 00:36:30,498
I wanted to but never did.
802
00:36:30,498 --> 00:36:32,190
- About three or four
weeks into the tour
803
00:36:32,190 --> 00:36:34,813
Chuck called the
booking agent, TCI,
804
00:36:34,813 --> 00:36:37,678
that was in New
York, represented us
805
00:36:37,678 --> 00:36:41,371
and told him his head was
a little more clear now
806
00:36:41,371 --> 00:36:42,993
and he felt like he
could go on tour.
807
00:36:42,993 --> 00:36:44,857
He wanted to be
part of the tour.
808
00:36:44,857 --> 00:36:48,033
Mitch [mumbling] from
TCI told him dude,
809
00:36:48,033 --> 00:36:49,068
you can not go, no.
810
00:36:50,311 --> 00:36:51,554
Yeah.
811
00:36:51,554 --> 00:36:52,555
He couldn't understand that.
812
00:36:52,555 --> 00:36:53,970
That's my band.
813
00:36:53,970 --> 00:36:57,284
He's like well contractually,
through the label,
814
00:36:57,284 --> 00:36:59,527
there are two thirds of the
band over there right now.
815
00:36:59,527 --> 00:37:01,495
I mean that's just the way it is
816
00:37:01,495 --> 00:37:05,153
and Creator don't
want you over there
817
00:37:05,153 --> 00:37:07,155
just 'cause of what happened.
818
00:37:07,155 --> 00:37:09,537
- I was with Bill and
Terry for quite a while
819
00:37:09,537 --> 00:37:12,299
and we were definitely more
than just band members,
820
00:37:12,299 --> 00:37:14,715
we were best friends so
that's also another factor
821
00:37:14,715 --> 00:37:17,476
that's really a drag
when you lose members,
822
00:37:17,476 --> 00:37:19,202
sometimes friendship
is involved.
823
00:37:19,202 --> 00:37:20,376
- And we knew at that point
824
00:37:20,376 --> 00:37:21,687
when we did that tour that okay,
825
00:37:21,687 --> 00:37:23,206
we're not in Death anymore.
826
00:37:23,206 --> 00:37:26,899
We're fulfilling this tour,
this contract and all this
827
00:37:26,899 --> 00:37:30,731
as Death but we knew
that when we came home
828
00:37:30,731 --> 00:37:33,768
obviously that was it but
if he had just talked to us
829
00:37:33,768 --> 00:37:36,840
we would have talked to him
830
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,118
and maybe we could try
to work something out.
831
00:37:42,984 --> 00:37:44,883
- [Chuck] I wanna just
keep moving forward
832
00:37:44,883 --> 00:37:47,230
and then have a record
each time around
833
00:37:47,230 --> 00:37:52,131
where people could say
wow, that's a lot different
834
00:37:52,131 --> 00:37:54,582
in a way from your last
album but still be the same.
835
00:37:54,582 --> 00:37:55,825
You know what I mean?
836
00:37:55,825 --> 00:37:57,585
Have a fresh approach
but at the same time
837
00:37:57,585 --> 00:37:59,311
have it where
someone can put it on
838
00:37:59,311 --> 00:38:01,969
and they can say that's Death
839
00:38:01,969 --> 00:38:03,626
except a lot better.
840
00:38:05,041 --> 00:38:07,664
- Therefore you're not getting
the same Death album twice
841
00:38:07,664 --> 00:38:10,460
and you never did
and he continued
842
00:38:10,460 --> 00:38:12,186
on this kind of path.
843
00:38:12,186 --> 00:38:14,292
That path led to
a lot of fall outs
844
00:38:14,292 --> 00:38:16,846
with musicians he
was working with
845
00:38:16,846 --> 00:38:19,469
and he got a reputation for
being difficult to work with.
846
00:38:19,469 --> 00:38:23,024
I think it was more just
having this solid creative eye,
847
00:38:23,024 --> 00:38:25,544
this vision that
was not gonna waiver
848
00:38:25,544 --> 00:38:28,375
for anybody or
anything and that's
849
00:38:28,375 --> 00:38:30,480
how you get to a
record like Human.
850
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,275
- So when Sadus,
we were actually
851
00:38:32,275 --> 00:38:33,690
sharing a bus with Obituary
852
00:38:34,829 --> 00:38:38,108
and we were both support
bands for Sepultura,
853
00:38:38,108 --> 00:38:39,489
this was November of 1990
854
00:38:39,489 --> 00:38:42,009
and we came through
Florida and Chuck
855
00:38:42,009 --> 00:38:43,907
came to town to the
venue in Orlando early
856
00:38:43,907 --> 00:38:46,703
in the day and invited all
four Sadus guys to the place
857
00:38:46,703 --> 00:38:49,223
and we just went, killed the day
858
00:38:49,223 --> 00:38:52,433
just hanging out watching
watchtower videos on his TV,
859
00:38:52,433 --> 00:38:55,298
made some good food and
just hung out there.
860
00:38:55,298 --> 00:38:58,819
He had told us that some
previous guys had kind of,
861
00:38:58,819 --> 00:39:00,476
they had a falling out
and they went on tour
862
00:39:00,476 --> 00:39:01,925
without him under the name Death
863
00:39:01,925 --> 00:39:04,342
and he was ready
to just start over
864
00:39:04,342 --> 00:39:05,998
with a completely new lineup.
865
00:39:05,998 --> 00:39:08,794
- Well at the moment I'm
working on new material.
866
00:39:08,794 --> 00:39:11,556
Got half the record
down right now.
867
00:39:11,556 --> 00:39:14,075
I got friends of mine
from the band Cynic.
868
00:39:14,075 --> 00:39:16,388
The drummer Sean and
guitar player Paul
869
00:39:16,388 --> 00:39:18,563
are helping me out, rehearsing.
870
00:39:18,563 --> 00:39:20,081
They're gonna help
me out in the studio
871
00:39:20,081 --> 00:39:21,945
so it's really great.
872
00:39:21,945 --> 00:39:23,947
- And then I guess when
he started having problems
873
00:39:23,947 --> 00:39:26,640
with his lineup,
I'm not even really
874
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,918
exactly sure what
the reason was,
875
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:31,955
he asked Paul if
he thought that I
876
00:39:31,955 --> 00:39:34,889
would be interested
in doing the record
877
00:39:34,889 --> 00:39:38,445
so when A, I got
the call from Chuck
878
00:39:38,445 --> 00:39:40,447
and was like of course and then
879
00:39:40,447 --> 00:39:41,724
it was gonna be like well, is he
880
00:39:41,724 --> 00:39:43,381
gonna want me to, it's
gonna be interesting.
881
00:39:43,381 --> 00:39:44,623
What is he gonna want?
882
00:39:44,623 --> 00:39:46,384
- And so to me that
was exciting news.
883
00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:48,282
I'm a friend of Chuck,
fan of his music.
884
00:39:48,282 --> 00:39:50,940
I'm a fan of Cynic and
I'm picturing this union
885
00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:55,116
and as the tour progresses we
get up to Milwaukee I think
886
00:39:55,116 --> 00:39:58,430
and [mumbling] was part of
this Milwaukee Metal Fest.
887
00:39:58,430 --> 00:40:00,846
- And the headliner
was Sepultura
888
00:40:00,846 --> 00:40:03,021
and then Obituary
was on that tour
889
00:40:03,021 --> 00:40:04,229
and then of course Sadus
890
00:40:05,644 --> 00:40:10,442
and Steve just walked in
and I just said hey hippy.
891
00:40:11,857 --> 00:40:12,789
- Congratulations, you're gonna
be on the next Death record
892
00:40:12,789 --> 00:40:14,204
or something, I'm like what?
893
00:40:15,551 --> 00:40:16,828
So I think I found a
payphone and called Chuck
894
00:40:16,828 --> 00:40:18,588
and he goes oh yeah,
I was gonna ask you.
895
00:40:18,588 --> 00:40:21,591
[death metal music]
896
00:40:34,673 --> 00:40:37,262
- He had worked on
some of the Human songs
897
00:40:37,262 --> 00:40:40,576
with Terry, they had a split,
898
00:40:40,576 --> 00:40:44,165
so some of the material was
already written and recorded
899
00:40:44,165 --> 00:40:46,720
like demos of these songs.
900
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:50,793
So to give these songs
to these jazzy cats
901
00:40:50,793 --> 00:40:54,797
from Miami was
incredible because it
902
00:40:54,797 --> 00:40:59,111
came together in a way
that was totally fresh.
903
00:40:59,111 --> 00:41:00,078
Look at that leap.
904
00:41:10,468 --> 00:41:12,331
- Chuck was advancing to a point
905
00:41:12,331 --> 00:41:14,506
where he needed guys
like Sean Reinert
906
00:41:14,506 --> 00:41:17,716
who [mumbling] and
Mahavishnu Orchestra
907
00:41:17,716 --> 00:41:19,546
and all these kind
of fusion bands.
908
00:41:19,546 --> 00:41:20,754
They understood that language.
909
00:41:20,754 --> 00:41:22,756
They were studying that
stuff and they were
910
00:41:22,756 --> 00:41:24,205
well into death metal as well.
911
00:41:24,205 --> 00:41:26,725
- I think what Human
became was because
912
00:41:26,725 --> 00:41:28,486
of the players themselves,
913
00:41:28,486 --> 00:41:30,039
is the style of the playing,
914
00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:32,248
is that Reinert is
all over the place
915
00:41:32,248 --> 00:41:33,732
so no matter what he would have
916
00:41:33,732 --> 00:41:36,010
been presented a song that Bill
917
00:41:36,010 --> 00:41:39,358
had done Bill's way and
then he just said okay,
918
00:41:39,358 --> 00:41:40,843
well this is how I play.
919
00:41:53,131 --> 00:41:54,926
- That was the point
of him bringing a guy
920
00:41:54,926 --> 00:41:57,894
like Sean Reinert who,
Cynic's already way different
921
00:41:59,102 --> 00:42:01,519
than a lot of the,
you know, Obituary,
922
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:04,142
Deicide, Morbid
Angel, bands that
923
00:42:04,142 --> 00:42:05,833
were really established.
924
00:42:05,833 --> 00:42:07,594
He was looking for a departure
925
00:42:07,594 --> 00:42:09,009
so he was looking for musicians
926
00:42:09,009 --> 00:42:10,251
that would bring
a different angle.
927
00:42:10,251 --> 00:42:11,943
Obviously it comes
in with context
928
00:42:11,943 --> 00:42:13,531
of what Death is
supposed to sound like.
929
00:42:13,531 --> 00:42:16,223
We're not gonna go in there
and play something ridiculous
930
00:42:16,223 --> 00:42:18,984
but as long as it
didn't stray too much
931
00:42:18,984 --> 00:42:21,262
from the heaviness
and the aggressiveness
932
00:42:21,262 --> 00:42:24,921
that Death should be, of
course all the little nuances
933
00:42:24,921 --> 00:42:27,475
on each instrument
were up to us.
934
00:42:34,724 --> 00:42:36,001
- I was so nervous.
935
00:42:36,001 --> 00:42:38,694
I was so nervous, it
was my first real life,
936
00:42:38,694 --> 00:42:41,662
legitimate record
recording session.
937
00:42:41,662 --> 00:42:45,045
I just remember losing
sleep the week before that
938
00:42:45,045 --> 00:42:46,840
and we had been rehearsing this.
939
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,393
We had cut demos.
940
00:42:48,393 --> 00:42:50,222
- We came pretty
prepared for Human.
941
00:42:50,222 --> 00:42:52,811
We had some time.
942
00:42:52,811 --> 00:42:54,779
We used the Cynic
warehouse down in Miami
943
00:42:54,779 --> 00:42:56,988
to work out Chuck's
ideas and even
944
00:42:56,988 --> 00:42:59,611
add our own ideas so
we came pretty prepared
945
00:42:59,611 --> 00:43:01,130
so it was easy going.
946
00:43:01,130 --> 00:43:03,442
- We got in, we got
tones in one day
947
00:43:03,442 --> 00:43:06,169
and I finished that record
in like two and a half days
948
00:43:06,169 --> 00:43:08,378
and we had like
eight days for drums
949
00:43:08,378 --> 00:43:12,106
and we were left with like
six days left with drums
950
00:43:12,106 --> 00:43:14,315
on the schedule
and they were like.
951
00:43:14,315 --> 00:43:16,007
So we wrote Cosmic Sea.
952
00:43:16,007 --> 00:43:17,525
We had worked on Vacant Planets
953
00:43:17,525 --> 00:43:20,252
but we had written that
in the rehearsal room.
954
00:43:20,252 --> 00:43:22,496
We wrote Cosmic
Sea in the studio.
955
00:43:34,370 --> 00:43:38,616
I've always been writing my
material without a bass player
956
00:43:38,616 --> 00:43:40,479
in some way or some form.
957
00:43:40,479 --> 00:43:44,380
So with me and Giorgio,
we were just going for it.
958
00:43:44,380 --> 00:43:45,623
We were just breaking shit down.
959
00:43:45,623 --> 00:43:47,935
Oh, we can do this here,
we can do this here.
960
00:43:49,074 --> 00:43:50,662
- That was easy
with Sean because he
961
00:43:51,974 --> 00:43:53,907
had a completely
different approach to it.
962
00:43:53,907 --> 00:43:56,841
He was playing the
beat but it was almost
963
00:43:56,841 --> 00:43:58,981
like polyrhythmic to
what the riffs were
964
00:43:58,981 --> 00:44:00,638
and so that opens
up this huge gap
965
00:44:00,638 --> 00:44:02,398
between the guitar riff
and the drums for the bass
966
00:44:02,398 --> 00:44:04,918
to just cruise back and
forth between everything,
967
00:44:04,918 --> 00:44:07,196
between the melody
and the rhythm.
968
00:44:07,196 --> 00:44:09,405
- We spent quite a
considerable amount
969
00:44:09,405 --> 00:44:11,303
of time on that stuff
so it was a little bit
970
00:44:11,303 --> 00:44:13,961
of a disappointment
when the mixes came out
971
00:44:13,961 --> 00:44:15,894
and it was kind of buried.
972
00:44:15,894 --> 00:44:17,102
'Cause there was a lot of stuff
973
00:44:17,102 --> 00:44:19,104
that was matched
up with me and him,
974
00:44:19,104 --> 00:44:20,623
you know what I mean.
975
00:44:49,790 --> 00:44:51,343
- I think that had an influence
976
00:44:51,343 --> 00:44:54,001
on other people starting
to play at the time
977
00:44:54,001 --> 00:44:55,589
and it made them wanna stretch
978
00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:58,488
and become Sean
Reinerts on the drums
979
00:44:58,488 --> 00:45:01,768
or be a Stevie Giorgio
and be very fluent
980
00:45:01,768 --> 00:45:04,598
and he brought almost
a jazz fusion element
981
00:45:04,598 --> 00:45:07,152
into the playing that really
kind of fit with metal.
982
00:45:07,152 --> 00:45:08,947
It's got a flow
that I think spoke
983
00:45:08,947 --> 00:45:10,846
to a lot of metal fans.
984
00:45:10,846 --> 00:45:13,607
I think you had an
immediate outgrowth
985
00:45:13,607 --> 00:45:16,748
of a lot of musicians and bands
986
00:45:16,748 --> 00:45:19,233
forming in the wake of Human.
987
00:45:19,233 --> 00:45:21,063
None of the other Death albums
988
00:45:21,063 --> 00:45:23,893
really sparked
that kind of desire
989
00:45:23,893 --> 00:45:26,240
or that ambition to
play in that way.
990
00:45:41,186 --> 00:45:42,222
- Because there were
other death metal records
991
00:45:42,222 --> 00:45:43,154
that I picked up first.
992
00:45:43,154 --> 00:45:45,190
Like Cause of Death by Obituary
993
00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:46,433
is the first death metal record
994
00:45:46,433 --> 00:45:47,917
that I seriously got.
995
00:45:47,917 --> 00:45:52,750
It was pure death metal that
just changed things for me
996
00:45:52,750 --> 00:45:54,752
and then it was a
few months later,
997
00:45:54,752 --> 00:45:56,581
I ended up getting Death, Human.
998
00:45:56,581 --> 00:45:57,893
That was the first Death record
999
00:45:57,893 --> 00:45:59,239
that connected with
me 'cause again,
1000
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:00,723
I'm 16 at the time.
1001
00:46:00,723 --> 00:46:03,830
Death metal is just blowing up.
1002
00:46:03,830 --> 00:46:06,280
- When I first heard
Human, kind of saw,
1003
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,869
like back then it was
[mumbling] in a sense
1004
00:46:08,869 --> 00:46:10,146
so when I first saw the artwork
1005
00:46:10,146 --> 00:46:12,528
in comparison to stuff
like Cannibal Corpse,
1006
00:46:12,528 --> 00:46:16,083
Tomb of the Mutilated, it's ...
1007
00:46:18,361 --> 00:46:21,364
[death metal music]
1008
00:46:30,891 --> 00:46:32,790
It's just more far
out there and it's one
1009
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:34,032
of the things that
I really loved
1010
00:46:34,032 --> 00:46:36,000
about that record
at that time too
1011
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,073
'cause you'll have like Morbid
Angel, Blessed Are The Sick
1012
00:46:40,073 --> 00:46:43,490
and then there's Human where
it's just really kind of like,
1013
00:46:43,490 --> 00:46:46,838
at the time it was different.
1014
00:46:46,838 --> 00:46:50,290
- When you brought in
Sean and Paul and Steve
1015
00:46:50,290 --> 00:46:52,119
they had so many
different backgrounds
1016
00:46:52,119 --> 00:46:54,604
between the three of
them, musical interests
1017
00:46:54,604 --> 00:46:55,882
and musical tastes.
1018
00:46:55,882 --> 00:47:00,818
It still had that basic
raw aggression in it.
1019
00:47:01,991 --> 00:47:04,752
There was just so
more to it I think.
1020
00:47:04,752 --> 00:47:06,893
You know what I mean,
so many more textures.
1021
00:47:06,893 --> 00:47:09,102
- Something like Human
seems more extreme
1022
00:47:09,102 --> 00:47:12,277
to me than Spiritual
Healing or even Leprosy
1023
00:47:12,277 --> 00:47:14,935
even though technically
it's less barbaric
1024
00:47:14,935 --> 00:47:16,419
and not nearly as heavy
1025
00:47:16,419 --> 00:47:19,077
in that old school
traditional sense
1026
00:47:19,077 --> 00:47:21,424
but this idea of pushing stuff
1027
00:47:21,424 --> 00:47:23,185
and stuff being more--
1028
00:47:51,420 --> 00:47:52,766
That's what resonated with me
1029
00:47:52,766 --> 00:47:53,974
and that was something
that was like this
1030
00:47:53,974 --> 00:47:55,527
is different, this is
something that I'm into
1031
00:47:55,527 --> 00:47:57,426
and from there on
I was just like,
1032
00:47:59,083 --> 00:48:01,948
I was a full on Death
fan from that moment on.
1033
00:48:02,845 --> 00:48:05,848
[death metal music]
1034
00:48:11,233 --> 00:48:13,407
- It changed a lot of people's
conception of death metal.
1035
00:48:13,407 --> 00:48:15,582
It made them understand
that it could be expanded
1036
00:48:15,582 --> 00:48:17,895
and played around
with quite a bit
1037
00:48:17,895 --> 00:48:20,207
and new influence would
be brought into it
1038
00:48:20,207 --> 00:48:21,553
and not watered
down necessarily.
1039
00:48:21,553 --> 00:48:23,176
Still very much a
death metal record.
1040
00:48:23,176 --> 00:48:27,525
It's just a very, it's
kind of death metal
1041
00:48:27,525 --> 00:48:28,906
operating on a higher level.
1042
00:48:36,361 --> 00:48:37,880
- Death metal kind of involved
1043
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,677
from this weird little
thing in the late 80s
1044
00:48:41,677 --> 00:48:46,682
to by around 1991,
1992, this movement
1045
00:48:47,855 --> 00:48:49,064
that had multiple
bands that were
1046
00:48:49,064 --> 00:48:50,858
selling hundreds of
thousands of records.
1047
00:48:50,858 --> 00:48:54,828
There were real media outlets
1048
00:48:54,828 --> 00:48:59,833
like even MTV
covering these bands,
1049
00:49:00,696 --> 00:49:01,939
like getting real attention.
1050
00:49:01,939 --> 00:49:02,974
- So we just, like
everybody else,
1051
00:49:02,974 --> 00:49:05,149
thought we have to do a video.
1052
00:49:05,149 --> 00:49:06,460
This is important to us now
1053
00:49:06,460 --> 00:49:08,290
and we went to
Relativity and we just
1054
00:49:08,290 --> 00:49:09,877
said we need a video.
1055
00:49:09,877 --> 00:49:11,707
That's what's
happening right now.
1056
00:49:11,707 --> 00:49:16,712
- I distinctly
remember being like 16
1057
00:49:18,162 --> 00:49:21,096
sitting in my bedroom and
having an old VHS cassette
1058
00:49:23,546 --> 00:49:24,478
in my VCR waiting when
the Triple Thrash Threat
1059
00:49:27,792 --> 00:49:29,656
would start to hit record
1060
00:49:29,656 --> 00:49:32,521
so I could get this
four minute video
1061
00:49:32,521 --> 00:49:33,832
of Death somewhere.
1062
00:49:34,972 --> 00:49:36,249
You hope maybe they're
gonna play it this week
1063
00:49:36,249 --> 00:49:37,733
so you'd sit there
and try to get it
1064
00:49:37,733 --> 00:49:39,183
but I know that I certainly
1065
00:49:39,183 --> 00:49:41,875
was not the only person
who saw that video.
1066
00:49:41,875 --> 00:49:46,121
It really kind of exposed
them to a wider audience.
1067
00:50:21,846 --> 00:50:23,882
- The idea of turning
on the television
1068
00:50:23,882 --> 00:50:26,230
and seeing yourself
was just so far removed
1069
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:29,198
from our brain, like we
couldn't even imagine
1070
00:50:29,198 --> 00:50:32,788
that the band Death
would be on TV
1071
00:50:32,788 --> 00:50:37,068
and Headbanger's Ball was
the really only opportunity
1072
00:50:37,068 --> 00:50:40,037
by that time for metal to,
1073
00:50:40,037 --> 00:50:42,487
this is even before
Beavis and Butthead.
1074
00:50:42,487 --> 00:50:44,455
It's just, this was it.
1075
00:50:48,045 --> 00:50:53,015
♪ That creates its destruction
1076
00:50:55,569 --> 00:51:00,505
♪ Lies
1077
00:51:01,713 --> 00:51:04,061
♪ Right before your very eyes
1078
00:51:04,061 --> 00:51:06,132
♪ A reflection of the mistakes
1079
00:51:06,132 --> 00:51:08,789
♪ To the end you will deny
1080
00:51:08,789 --> 00:51:13,104
♪ Your part in the
demise of a life ♪
1081
00:51:15,244 --> 00:51:17,557
- I knew the director because I
1082
00:51:17,557 --> 00:51:19,214
was managing a
band called London
1083
00:51:20,939 --> 00:51:24,529
from Los Angeles and
we had done a video
1084
00:51:24,529 --> 00:51:26,842
for one of their songs
and this guy Dave Bellino
1085
00:51:26,842 --> 00:51:29,569
had been the director
and I liked his work
1086
00:51:29,569 --> 00:51:31,295
so I just said would
you do this one
1087
00:51:31,295 --> 00:51:32,503
and he just said yeah.
1088
00:51:33,745 --> 00:51:37,024
- A one camera
shoot, one camera.
1089
00:51:37,024 --> 00:51:39,199
So I played that song
something like 30 times
1090
00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:43,030
and of course I have to
at least move most of it.
1091
00:51:45,274 --> 00:51:48,105
- Well actually, in a video
situation such as this,
1092
00:51:48,105 --> 00:51:49,485
this is how we do it now.
1093
00:51:49,485 --> 00:51:50,831
I don't know about [mumbling].
1094
00:51:52,557 --> 00:51:57,217
We just run through the
song about 30 or 40 times,
1095
00:51:57,217 --> 00:52:01,014
do individual, we call
'em iso's, isolations.
1096
00:52:21,345 --> 00:52:24,071
- I was living in Kansas
when I was growing up
1097
00:52:24,071 --> 00:52:27,040
and I saw the video for
Lack of Comprehension
1098
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,076
on Headbanger's Ball.
1099
00:52:29,076 --> 00:52:32,390
I was just totally blown away
especially by Sean Reinert.
1100
00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:35,048
There was a shot where
he's playing like this
1101
00:52:35,048 --> 00:52:36,498
and he looks like an octopus
1102
00:52:36,498 --> 00:52:38,431
playing this crazy drum pattern.
1103
00:52:38,431 --> 00:52:41,192
I was like whoa,
what the heck is that
1104
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,162
and for me, being a
drummer, it sounded
1105
00:52:45,162 --> 00:52:49,925
like Neil Pert crossed
with Pete Sandoval.
1106
00:52:49,925 --> 00:52:51,582
It was just the craziest thing.
1107
00:52:55,965 --> 00:52:58,485
♪ Right before your very eyes
1108
00:52:58,485 --> 00:53:00,970
♪ A reflection of the mistakes
1109
00:53:00,970 --> 00:53:03,525
♪ To the end you will deny
1110
00:53:03,525 --> 00:53:08,530
♪ Your part in the
demise of a life ♪
1111
00:53:10,842 --> 00:53:15,847
♪ Lack of comprehension
1112
00:53:16,745 --> 00:53:20,852
♪ Thriving on your cliche
1113
00:53:20,852 --> 00:53:24,787
♪ Compelled by self-resentment
1114
00:53:27,204 --> 00:53:28,757
- [Male] Oh my god!
1115
00:53:32,726 --> 00:53:37,248
- But what became striking
was the European metal press
1116
00:53:37,248 --> 00:53:40,217
writing about the
fact that Chuck
1117
00:53:40,217 --> 00:53:45,118
had an inability to
follow through with tours
1118
00:53:45,118 --> 00:53:47,741
and that became a problem.
1119
00:53:47,741 --> 00:53:49,502
- I think maybe we get
the inconvenient stuff
1120
00:53:49,502 --> 00:53:52,367
out of the way first, yeah?
1121
00:53:52,367 --> 00:53:56,025
Let's talk about the
European disaster.
1122
00:53:56,025 --> 00:53:58,994
So why didn't you
make it to Europe?
1123
00:53:58,994 --> 00:54:00,789
What is the reason behind it?
1124
00:54:00,789 --> 00:54:02,273
- They knew that he had bailed
1125
00:54:02,273 --> 00:54:05,345
towards the end of a tour and so
1126
00:54:05,345 --> 00:54:09,729
were thinking this guy
doesn't wanna be out there
1127
00:54:09,729 --> 00:54:11,972
and now there's another
tour with Kreator
1128
00:54:11,972 --> 00:54:13,940
and rumors were that Chuck
1129
00:54:13,940 --> 00:54:17,737
wasn't gonna show and
then when he didn't show,
1130
00:54:17,737 --> 00:54:19,256
that was it.
1131
00:54:19,256 --> 00:54:22,328
It was very difficult going
back to Europe with Human.
1132
00:54:22,328 --> 00:54:25,331
Nobody believed that it
was gonna occur, really.
1133
00:54:25,331 --> 00:54:28,403
- And all I can do is
say I'm looking forward
1134
00:54:28,403 --> 00:54:30,439
to making it to Europe finally
1135
00:54:30,439 --> 00:54:34,754
and I hope people show
up and support the music
1136
00:54:34,754 --> 00:54:36,963
and you know, that's about it.
1137
00:54:38,102 --> 00:54:40,207
- You know that a lot of people
1138
00:54:40,207 --> 00:54:42,727
are fed up with
the band right now.
1139
00:54:42,727 --> 00:54:44,936
Lot of Germany, there's a
lot of people pissed off
1140
00:54:44,936 --> 00:54:47,042
so you gotta win
'em back somehow.
1141
00:54:47,042 --> 00:54:50,908
So will this band make
it to Europe at last?
1142
00:54:50,908 --> 00:54:51,736
You sure?
1143
00:54:55,671 --> 00:54:57,846
What if not, what if not?
1144
00:54:59,296 --> 00:55:01,470
- Come back in another
life as an acorn
1145
00:55:02,609 --> 00:55:05,025
and that would suck, seriously.
1146
00:55:05,025 --> 00:55:07,994
- And I said to him okay, so
how do you wanna work this
1147
00:55:07,994 --> 00:55:08,995
and he said well I would like
1148
00:55:08,995 --> 00:55:10,893
to buy everybody
new instruments.
1149
00:55:10,893 --> 00:55:13,482
We'll use the equipment
for the North American tour
1150
00:55:13,482 --> 00:55:15,104
and then we'll ship it
to Europe and use it.
1151
00:55:15,104 --> 00:55:16,002
I'm like what?
1152
00:55:16,899 --> 00:55:18,176
Why do you wanna ship it?
1153
00:55:18,176 --> 00:55:20,040
Because it's our equipment and I
1154
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:21,939
wanna work with my own stuff
1155
00:55:21,939 --> 00:55:24,251
and we'll get transformers
so they can be plugged in
1156
00:55:24,251 --> 00:55:25,563
and what am I supposed to say?
1157
00:55:25,563 --> 00:55:27,979
I just alright,
it's gonna be crazy
1158
00:55:27,979 --> 00:55:29,912
and so because we
had nothing left
1159
00:55:29,912 --> 00:55:32,398
I had to do a deal
so that the bus
1160
00:55:32,398 --> 00:55:35,711
would be fronted by
the British promoter
1161
00:55:35,711 --> 00:55:39,128
who had the British dates so
he would do it at the end.
1162
00:55:45,031 --> 00:55:46,895
- And you know, Paul
and I's first tour,
1163
00:55:46,895 --> 00:55:49,173
we got the bus, the whole thing.
1164
00:55:49,173 --> 00:55:52,763
We've driven vans and RVs
and we were just loving it
1165
00:55:52,763 --> 00:55:55,352
and back then, man,
your tours were long.
1166
00:55:55,352 --> 00:55:57,319
They were like two
months at a time.
1167
00:55:57,319 --> 00:55:59,217
- By then Chuck was
growing really homesick.
1168
00:55:59,217 --> 00:56:00,322
It would have been two weeks out
1169
00:56:00,322 --> 00:56:02,980
and he really wanted to go home
1170
00:56:02,980 --> 00:56:07,709
and then we got sick.
1171
00:56:07,709 --> 00:56:09,020
- And we were all sharing a bus
1172
00:56:09,020 --> 00:56:11,747
and they were a French
band and they all smoked
1173
00:56:11,747 --> 00:56:13,749
and our bus driver smoked
1174
00:56:13,749 --> 00:56:16,131
so we were traveling literally
1175
00:56:16,131 --> 00:56:21,136
in just a 40 foot fucking
second hand smoke capsule.
1176
00:56:23,069 --> 00:56:26,175
- And Reinert collapses.
1177
00:56:26,175 --> 00:56:27,384
He gets very, very sick.
1178
00:56:27,384 --> 00:56:28,971
Has to be brought
to the hospital.
1179
00:56:30,179 --> 00:56:32,665
Then I, being a diabetic
and not paying attention
1180
00:56:32,665 --> 00:56:35,150
to my health, I got sick.
1181
00:56:35,150 --> 00:56:36,427
- Then Eric had to
go to a hospital
1182
00:56:36,427 --> 00:56:38,187
and then that's
when it fell apart.
1183
00:56:39,637 --> 00:56:42,916
- So I stayed and the idea
was I would keep in touch
1184
00:56:42,916 --> 00:56:46,299
by phone for the venues.
1185
00:56:46,299 --> 00:56:48,750
Something happened when
Chuck got to Germany
1186
00:56:49,923 --> 00:56:53,237
where he flipped his
lid about the promoter
1187
00:56:53,237 --> 00:56:54,721
and something
related to the gigs
1188
00:56:54,721 --> 00:56:57,414
and by then, of course,
he was at wits end
1189
00:56:57,414 --> 00:56:58,622
because he did not
wanna be [mumbling]
1190
00:56:58,622 --> 00:57:00,589
and the next thing
I know I'm fired
1191
00:57:00,589 --> 00:57:03,834
for not being by his
side and he's quit
1192
00:57:03,834 --> 00:57:04,869
and the tour is over.
1193
00:57:13,568 --> 00:57:16,674
- I remember [mumbling]
threatening Chuck
1194
00:57:16,674 --> 00:57:21,507
with lawsuits and
it was definitely,
1195
00:57:21,507 --> 00:57:24,233
it was just a weird
situation because we
1196
00:57:24,233 --> 00:57:27,720
were totally caught in
the middle of that thing,
1197
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:28,962
you know what I mean?
1198
00:57:28,962 --> 00:57:31,551
- And because the
bus was put up,
1199
00:57:31,551 --> 00:57:34,002
the money for that was put
up by the British promoter
1200
00:57:34,002 --> 00:57:35,866
who hadn't had his shows yet,
1201
00:57:35,866 --> 00:57:37,799
they were at the
end of the tour,
1202
00:57:37,799 --> 00:57:41,043
he flipped out because
he lost all this money
1203
00:57:41,043 --> 00:57:43,632
so he put a lien on the gear.
1204
00:57:43,632 --> 00:57:46,117
- Our gear got
taken so my drums,
1205
00:57:46,117 --> 00:57:51,122
Paul's guitar amps and Mike
[mumbling] and all that shit
1206
00:57:52,261 --> 00:57:53,573
were held hostage and
we were now signed
1207
00:57:53,573 --> 00:57:56,956
and supposed to write
and record a record
1208
00:57:56,956 --> 00:58:00,649
and it took us like nine
months to get our gear back.
1209
00:58:00,649 --> 00:58:03,756
- And he gathered
the guys together
1210
00:58:03,756 --> 00:58:05,861
and somehow they made
it back to London
1211
00:58:05,861 --> 00:58:07,104
for the flights back home
1212
00:58:07,104 --> 00:58:10,832
because of course the
flights were from London
1213
00:58:10,832 --> 00:58:14,042
two months later so they
had to negotiate their way
1214
00:58:14,042 --> 00:58:15,250
to get back on their plane.
1215
00:58:15,250 --> 00:58:17,010
- Then it was Chuck saying Eric
1216
00:58:17,010 --> 00:58:19,875
and Eric saying Chuck
and the bus company
1217
00:58:19,875 --> 00:58:23,707
saying the entity
Death then that's
1218
00:58:23,707 --> 00:58:27,745
where everybody, it kind of
turned into Lord of the Flies.
1219
00:58:27,745 --> 00:58:28,781
You know what I mean, everybody
1220
00:58:28,781 --> 00:58:30,265
just didn't know who to trust
1221
00:58:30,265 --> 00:58:33,786
and it turned into this
whole weird situation.
1222
00:58:33,786 --> 00:58:36,236
- Well we cut it off two
weeks early actually.
1223
00:58:36,236 --> 00:58:38,169
We did six weeks of touring
1224
00:58:38,169 --> 00:58:41,138
and then the financial
part of things
1225
00:58:41,138 --> 00:58:45,522
completely fell
apart due to people
1226
00:58:45,522 --> 00:58:49,698
mismanaging our funds,
things not being paid,
1227
00:58:49,698 --> 00:58:52,494
a lot of things, it was
a nightmare financially.
1228
00:58:52,494 --> 00:58:53,806
Tour wise it was great.
1229
00:58:53,806 --> 00:58:55,014
The audiences were great.
1230
00:58:55,014 --> 00:58:58,535
People really, they
accepted things
1231
00:58:58,535 --> 00:59:00,778
and it was fantastic
on that level
1232
00:59:00,778 --> 00:59:01,986
but financially
it was a disaster
1233
00:59:01,986 --> 00:59:05,162
and you can not
tour without funds.
1234
00:59:05,162 --> 00:59:06,715
We do not make millions.
1235
00:59:06,715 --> 00:59:09,925
This is not a big, big,
big money making thing.
1236
00:59:09,925 --> 00:59:12,169
- Any notion of us
sitting at a table
1237
00:59:12,169 --> 00:59:14,896
and having a discussion
before the tour
1238
00:59:14,896 --> 00:59:19,072
about what we need to do
if you want all your gear
1239
00:59:19,072 --> 00:59:23,145
sent to Europe and not,
we don't just rent stuff,
1240
00:59:23,145 --> 00:59:26,839
all of that went down
the drain and someone
1241
00:59:26,839 --> 00:59:28,841
had to be blamed and so he just,
1242
00:59:28,841 --> 00:59:30,877
it was very convenient
to blame the manager.
1243
00:59:30,877 --> 00:59:34,398
- I never had any resolution
with Chuck unfortunately
1244
00:59:34,398 --> 00:59:38,644
and I never really had
a big fallout with Chuck
1245
00:59:38,644 --> 00:59:40,197
interestingly enough.
1246
00:59:40,197 --> 00:59:41,439
I never got the phone call.
1247
00:59:41,439 --> 00:59:43,062
I got a phone call
from Steve DiGiorgio
1248
00:59:43,062 --> 00:59:45,547
saying hey dude, we're
in the studio right now
1249
00:59:45,547 --> 00:59:47,376
and Gene's playing drums.
1250
00:59:47,376 --> 00:59:49,102
The only thing I'm upset about
1251
00:59:49,102 --> 00:59:51,173
is just not the communication.
1252
00:59:51,173 --> 00:59:53,693
Hearing it from
somebody, from somebody
1253
00:59:53,693 --> 00:59:56,109
when they're in the
studio, just like really?
1254
00:59:56,109 --> 00:59:57,939
Just call me, dude.
1255
00:59:57,939 --> 00:59:59,561
I understand.
1256
00:59:59,561 --> 01:00:02,288
You have a timeline,
you're a professional.
1257
01:00:02,288 --> 01:00:04,290
This is how you're living.
1258
01:00:04,290 --> 01:00:05,602
I'm not gonna be angry.
1259
01:00:05,602 --> 01:00:08,915
I'll be disappointed but anyway,
1260
01:00:08,915 --> 01:00:11,331
that's a whole other
part of that thing.
1261
01:00:12,609 --> 01:00:17,199
- [Chuck] [mumbling]
went on to do their band
1262
01:00:17,199 --> 01:00:19,374
which they still had
together at the time
1263
01:00:19,374 --> 01:00:21,169
when they're helping me out
1264
01:00:21,169 --> 01:00:23,309
and so they're doing
their thing now
1265
01:00:23,309 --> 01:00:25,656
and that and then I needed
1266
01:00:25,656 --> 01:00:27,278
to start looking for new people
1267
01:00:27,278 --> 01:00:29,004
and luckily that
wasn't any problem.
1268
01:00:29,004 --> 01:00:31,524
I lucked out and
got a hold of Gene
1269
01:00:31,524 --> 01:00:33,940
formerly of Dark Angel
and called him up
1270
01:00:33,940 --> 01:00:36,943
and he's into jamming out.
1271
01:00:36,943 --> 01:00:39,014
- That was rather strange.
1272
01:00:39,014 --> 01:00:41,189
I was in the process
of leaving Dark Angel
1273
01:00:41,189 --> 01:00:43,329
when I got a call from
[mumbling] one morning
1274
01:00:43,329 --> 01:00:46,125
saying hey man, Chuck
is looking for a drummer
1275
01:00:46,125 --> 01:00:48,437
and I talked to Chuck earlier
1276
01:00:48,437 --> 01:00:50,025
and I brought your name up.
1277
01:00:50,025 --> 01:00:52,096
Whatever happened I
called Chuck a day later
1278
01:00:52,096 --> 01:00:54,892
or whatever and I said hey man,
1279
01:00:54,892 --> 01:00:57,377
[mumbling] called me and
said that you're looking.
1280
01:00:57,377 --> 01:00:58,758
He's like yeah,
are you interested
1281
01:00:58,758 --> 01:01:01,105
and it was completely
just like we
1282
01:01:01,105 --> 01:01:04,281
picked up our last
awesome conversation.
1283
01:01:04,281 --> 01:01:05,558
We just kind of picked
it up from there
1284
01:01:05,558 --> 01:01:09,562
and everything was great
and within a couple
1285
01:01:09,562 --> 01:01:11,564
of weeks or a month
I was in Florida
1286
01:01:11,564 --> 01:01:14,049
and we were rehearsing in
his mom's garage at that time
1287
01:01:14,049 --> 01:01:17,363
and Scott came up from Tampa
1288
01:01:17,363 --> 01:01:20,677
and he bought Chuck
a little four track.
1289
01:01:20,677 --> 01:01:22,679
Just like hey, you're not gonna
1290
01:01:22,679 --> 01:01:26,544
record your demos on a
ghetto blaster again.
1291
01:01:27,476 --> 01:01:28,961
Taught us how to work it.
1292
01:01:28,961 --> 01:01:32,481
- [Chuck] And then to top
it off I got Steve back
1293
01:01:32,481 --> 01:01:33,897
jamming again.
1294
01:01:33,897 --> 01:01:35,553
He's taking time
from Sadus right now
1295
01:01:35,553 --> 01:01:37,694
who are still
together hanging out
1296
01:01:38,591 --> 01:01:40,938
and so it's been fantastic
1297
01:01:40,938 --> 01:01:43,113
and we got Andy LaRocque
from King Diamond
1298
01:01:43,113 --> 01:01:45,218
to come down and
do some lead work.
1299
01:01:46,703 --> 01:01:49,291
- It was just Andy LaRocque
from King Diamond coming in.
1300
01:01:49,291 --> 01:01:52,467
This is the man and Chuck
had picked the songs
1301
01:01:52,467 --> 01:01:54,331
he wanted Andy's
solos on but instead
1302
01:01:54,331 --> 01:01:55,573
of sending him the whole song
1303
01:01:55,573 --> 01:01:56,782
he just recorded
the little segments
1304
01:01:56,782 --> 01:01:58,438
where the solos go.
1305
01:01:58,438 --> 01:01:59,957
So Andy said he
received this tape,
1306
01:01:59,957 --> 01:02:01,545
it was just these
little blurbs of music
1307
01:02:01,545 --> 01:02:05,411
and he was kinda, it
wasn't really locked in.
1308
01:02:05,411 --> 01:02:06,861
He was out of context.
1309
01:02:06,861 --> 01:02:08,897
He didn't have the
vibe of the song.
1310
01:02:08,897 --> 01:02:10,243
He didn't know the move.
1311
01:02:10,243 --> 01:02:11,382
He just had these little parts.
1312
01:02:11,382 --> 01:02:12,798
Chuck was like
here's where you play
1313
01:02:12,798 --> 01:02:14,661
and Andy's like
I'm not feeling it.
1314
01:02:16,456 --> 01:02:18,631
He had showed up and
said yeah, I listened
1315
01:02:18,631 --> 01:02:21,392
to the tape but I didn't
really listen to it.
1316
01:02:21,392 --> 01:02:23,429
I didn't sit down
and analyze it.
1317
01:02:23,429 --> 01:02:24,706
I didn't really
prepare something
1318
01:02:24,706 --> 01:02:26,777
and Scott was like
oh no, here we go.
1319
01:02:26,777 --> 01:02:29,504
This guy comes all
the way in from Sweden
1320
01:02:29,504 --> 01:02:31,678
and he's just, and
he was only scheduled
1321
01:02:31,678 --> 01:02:33,025
for a couple days really.
1322
01:02:33,025 --> 01:02:34,509
He's like how are we
gonna get this done?
1323
01:02:34,509 --> 01:02:35,752
This is brutal.
1324
01:02:35,752 --> 01:02:37,546
We're gonna have to
start from square one.
1325
01:02:37,546 --> 01:02:38,962
Andy just looked
over at me and Chuck
1326
01:02:38,962 --> 01:02:41,136
and shrugged and said
don't worry about it, guys.
1327
01:02:41,136 --> 01:02:42,310
It'll be okay.
1328
01:02:42,310 --> 01:02:44,312
Just push record,
we'll see what happens.
1329
01:02:44,312 --> 01:02:45,727
This guy takes a big
sigh, alright, here we go.
1330
01:02:45,727 --> 01:02:47,108
Hits record, boom.
1331
01:02:47,108 --> 01:02:48,972
Andy lets something rip.
1332
01:02:48,972 --> 01:02:51,975
[death metal music]
1333
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,813
Me and Chuck are just
hair standing up,
1334
01:03:36,813 --> 01:03:39,505
goose bumping up watching
this guy in action.
1335
01:03:39,505 --> 01:03:41,541
We get to the end of
it and Andy's like,
1336
01:03:41,541 --> 01:03:43,750
kind of laugh like oh well,
I'm just getting warmed up.
1337
01:03:43,750 --> 01:03:45,511
Give me another run through.
1338
01:03:45,511 --> 01:03:46,753
Let me do something
for real and Scott
1339
01:03:46,753 --> 01:03:48,272
goes hold on, let me set
you up another track.
1340
01:03:48,272 --> 01:03:49,895
I'm keeping that.
1341
01:03:49,895 --> 01:03:52,690
I don't know if he
really prepared at home
1342
01:03:52,690 --> 01:03:54,106
and just kind of played it off
1343
01:03:54,106 --> 01:03:55,762
or if that's just what
comes out of that guy
1344
01:03:55,762 --> 01:03:57,695
but whatever it
was, it was awesome
1345
01:03:57,695 --> 01:03:59,214
'cause he was
knocking his solos out
1346
01:03:59,214 --> 01:04:02,666
and not only just playing
a cool melodic solo passage
1347
01:04:02,666 --> 01:04:04,737
with very, very few takes
1348
01:04:04,737 --> 01:04:06,256
but as soon as he
would finish a take
1349
01:04:06,256 --> 01:04:07,809
and we all got the
nod around the room
1350
01:04:07,809 --> 01:04:09,707
like that's it, that's it,
he would say roll it back
1351
01:04:09,707 --> 01:04:11,502
to the top and give
me another track
1352
01:04:11,502 --> 01:04:12,849
and he would double it.
1353
01:04:12,849 --> 01:04:15,368
Note for note,
inflection for inflection
1354
01:04:15,368 --> 01:04:18,578
and was just nailing
what he just did
1355
01:04:18,578 --> 01:04:20,511
in a harmony
position or something
1356
01:04:20,511 --> 01:04:21,961
and it was like holy crap.
1357
01:04:21,961 --> 01:04:24,446
- I don't ever try to
control what people play.
1358
01:04:24,446 --> 01:04:26,690
I just say come
in and let loose,
1359
01:04:26,690 --> 01:04:29,624
let the metal flow and
that's exactly what happened
1360
01:04:29,624 --> 01:04:30,901
and it's great to be
able to get people
1361
01:04:30,901 --> 01:04:32,213
that you know, that
you're friends with
1362
01:04:32,213 --> 01:04:35,354
and that are really
professionals,
1363
01:04:35,354 --> 01:04:37,943
strong at what they do and
have their own identity
1364
01:04:37,943 --> 01:04:40,290
and that is crucial
in any type of music.
1365
01:04:40,290 --> 01:04:42,119
You have to have your own style
1366
01:04:42,119 --> 01:04:44,535
whether you play
piano or whatever.
1367
01:04:44,535 --> 01:04:46,434
- He had made it clear
during the recordings,
1368
01:04:46,434 --> 01:04:47,884
I think he even made
it official one day.
1369
01:04:47,884 --> 01:04:49,092
We just went out for lunch.
1370
01:04:49,092 --> 01:04:50,369
- It was something
like hey, we've
1371
01:04:50,369 --> 01:04:53,027
been offered a two
or three week run
1372
01:04:53,027 --> 01:04:56,340
over in Europe and might
you be available for it?
1373
01:04:56,340 --> 01:04:58,239
It's a festival thing
that we're headlining.
1374
01:04:58,239 --> 01:05:00,517
- We weren't expected
to in the recording
1375
01:05:00,517 --> 01:05:02,899
to go out live but
he said you know,
1376
01:05:02,899 --> 01:05:04,555
I'd really like to
have you guys there.
1377
01:05:04,555 --> 01:05:05,798
Are you willing to do it?
1378
01:05:07,179 --> 01:05:09,181
And we just looked at
each other like hell yeah.
1379
01:05:09,181 --> 01:05:12,356
Go out and play this material
we just helped you invent.
1380
01:05:12,356 --> 01:05:13,599
That would be great.
1381
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:15,773
- Death will always
remain a growing band
1382
01:05:15,773 --> 01:05:17,258
'cause I think
there's definitely
1383
01:05:17,258 --> 01:05:21,262
too much of a limit being
put on death metal right now
1384
01:05:21,262 --> 01:05:26,267
with this big rise
in Satanic stuff
1385
01:05:27,716 --> 01:05:31,306
and just brutal lyrics for
the sake of being brutal
1386
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:33,653
rather than putting
some thought into
1387
01:05:33,653 --> 01:05:35,138
and trying to
conquer what people
1388
01:05:35,138 --> 01:05:37,968
already think of heavy
metal and death metal
1389
01:05:37,968 --> 01:05:39,556
or hard rock in general.
1390
01:05:40,764 --> 01:05:43,594
I feel like I won't
put a limit on this
1391
01:05:43,594 --> 01:05:47,909
and I wanna keep continuing
to grow as a musician
1392
01:05:47,909 --> 01:05:50,325
and as a person
in life and to try
1393
01:05:50,325 --> 01:05:54,605
to put into the music
what I learn, so to speak.
1394
01:05:54,605 --> 01:05:58,264
- I think he made it
clear that the scene,
1395
01:05:58,264 --> 01:06:00,370
the death metal scene
in and of itself
1396
01:06:00,370 --> 01:06:04,270
was for a lot of people
kind of a limiting box
1397
01:06:04,270 --> 01:06:05,099
to be in.
1398
01:06:06,514 --> 01:06:07,929
It was always be more
extreme, be more extreme.
1399
01:06:07,929 --> 01:06:11,001
Be brutal, be this, do
the sickest stuff ever
1400
01:06:11,001 --> 01:06:12,692
and I think he didn't
wanna do that anymore
1401
01:06:12,692 --> 01:06:16,903
and I think he realized
that where do you go?
1402
01:06:16,903 --> 01:06:20,838
You can't just keep pounding out
1403
01:06:20,838 --> 01:06:23,980
those kinds of
lyrics all the time
1404
01:06:23,980 --> 01:06:26,292
and if you're not, if
your heart isn't in it
1405
01:06:26,292 --> 01:06:29,364
you don't wanna fake
your way through it
1406
01:06:29,364 --> 01:06:34,369
so for him, I feel like
it would be pretty natural
1407
01:06:35,232 --> 01:06:37,027
for him to react negatively
1408
01:06:37,027 --> 01:06:41,273
to the idea that he was
just a death metal guy
1409
01:06:42,481 --> 01:06:45,208
and you saw him
do that, obviously
1410
01:06:45,208 --> 01:06:47,210
he said it in
interviews at the time
1411
01:06:47,210 --> 01:06:50,178
but he would kind of go
against the grain I think
1412
01:06:51,731 --> 01:06:54,320
in really I think fun ways
1413
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,426
especially with like the
t-shirts that he wore.
1414
01:06:56,426 --> 01:06:59,222
That shirt that he wore in a
Headbanger's Ball interview
1415
01:06:59,222 --> 01:07:02,535
where he's got the cats,
the little kitties on them.
1416
01:07:02,535 --> 01:07:04,330
Like stuff like that
was always like,
1417
01:07:04,330 --> 01:07:05,538
nobody else would do that.
1418
01:07:05,538 --> 01:07:07,023
Nobody else had the
balls to do that
1419
01:07:07,023 --> 01:07:10,060
and it was just
basically, it was fun
1420
01:07:12,062 --> 01:07:14,892
but I think it was also
kind of a fuck you.
1421
01:07:16,032 --> 01:07:19,656
You don't have to be
this brutal all the time
1422
01:07:19,656 --> 01:07:21,106
and what is the point of it
1423
01:07:21,106 --> 01:07:23,211
and really, are we all really
this brutal all the time?
1424
01:07:23,211 --> 01:07:24,764
Is this really how life is?
1425
01:07:24,764 --> 01:07:27,146
- Now on the other
hand, Death went out
1426
01:07:27,146 --> 01:07:31,737
and what appears to be like
a pretty high budget video.
1427
01:07:31,737 --> 01:07:33,946
- Actually, it's very budgeted.
1428
01:07:33,946 --> 01:07:35,603
- Where did you film the video?
1429
01:07:35,603 --> 01:07:38,019
- We filmed it actually,
part of it was outside
1430
01:07:38,019 --> 01:07:41,850
in Natural Springs in
Florida and the other half
1431
01:07:41,850 --> 01:07:43,852
was shot two hours
away in some warehouse
1432
01:07:43,852 --> 01:07:46,441
in the middle of tornado land.
1433
01:07:46,441 --> 01:07:47,960
- 'Cause looking at the video
1434
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:49,996
it looks like it was in some
rain forest or something.
1435
01:07:49,996 --> 01:07:50,963
You went and spent
all the money on it
1436
01:07:50,963 --> 01:07:52,378
and it's a nice video.
1437
01:07:52,378 --> 01:07:55,174
- Thank you, we're very
happy with how it turned out.
1438
01:07:55,174 --> 01:07:56,072
Definitely.
1439
01:07:59,005 --> 01:08:01,077
♪ Do you feel what I feel
1440
01:08:01,077 --> 01:08:02,940
- [Butthead] Ew, is this a joke?
1441
01:08:02,940 --> 01:08:04,045
- [Beavis] Yeah, yeah.
1442
01:08:05,115 --> 01:08:06,875
I think this is
supposed to be funny.
1443
01:08:08,877 --> 01:08:11,466
- [Butthead] Hey, check
it out, it's Jeremy.
1444
01:08:11,466 --> 01:08:13,158
- [Beavis] Yeah,
he's still running.
1445
01:08:14,331 --> 01:08:15,263
- Who would have
guessed that they
1446
01:08:15,263 --> 01:08:17,438
would be cultural pacemakers?
1447
01:08:17,438 --> 01:08:19,302
Like if you got
Beavis and Butthead
1448
01:08:19,302 --> 01:08:21,821
to comment on your video, you
1449
01:08:21,821 --> 01:08:24,134
were getting a lot
of extra eyes on it
1450
01:08:24,134 --> 01:08:26,378
in primetime television
because like it or not,
1451
01:08:26,378 --> 01:08:27,655
the Headbanger's Ball audience
1452
01:08:27,655 --> 01:08:30,485
was still pretty limited
to midnight to two a.m.
1453
01:08:30,485 --> 01:08:32,211
on the east coast
on a Saturday night.
1454
01:08:32,211 --> 01:08:35,111
Anybody who stayed up was
already indoctrinated.
1455
01:08:35,111 --> 01:08:36,629
You were already into this shit
1456
01:08:36,629 --> 01:08:38,114
and were waiting for it.
1457
01:08:38,114 --> 01:08:39,943
IF you're watching
Beavis and Butthead
1458
01:08:39,943 --> 01:08:43,774
and you got hit with 40
seconds of a Death video,
1459
01:08:43,774 --> 01:08:47,571
that could hit anybody
at any point in time.
1460
01:08:49,608 --> 01:08:51,506
- Was it spawned out
of a love for the music
1461
01:08:51,506 --> 01:08:53,025
that was being played?
1462
01:08:53,025 --> 01:08:55,510
I don't know but things
[mumbling] everyone apart
1463
01:08:55,510 --> 01:08:57,857
no matter how good the music is.
1464
01:08:57,857 --> 01:08:59,135
I mean White Zombie, Crowbar.
1465
01:08:59,135 --> 01:09:01,516
I mean Crowbar are one
of my favorites bands
1466
01:09:01,516 --> 01:09:05,141
[mumbling] apart
but I mean it then
1467
01:09:05,141 --> 01:09:06,590
becomes a part of the mainstream
1468
01:09:06,590 --> 01:09:08,489
when you have such
a popular show
1469
01:09:08,489 --> 01:09:10,939
like Beavis and Butthead
featuring Death.
1470
01:09:10,939 --> 01:09:13,045
- And the fact that
Chuck's only real job
1471
01:09:13,045 --> 01:09:16,497
was in a Del Taco when
he was a teenager.
1472
01:09:16,497 --> 01:09:17,670
I think that's classic.
1473
01:09:21,950 --> 01:09:24,746
- [Butthead] I think saw this
dude in Burger World once.
1474
01:09:26,403 --> 01:09:28,336
- [Beavis] I'd like
two tacos please
1475
01:09:29,855 --> 01:09:31,581
and a small order of fries!
1476
01:09:35,999 --> 01:09:37,552
- That was pretty good, Beavis.
1477
01:09:39,071 --> 01:09:41,280
You suck almost as
much as this dude.
1478
01:09:44,145 --> 01:09:47,148
[death metal music]
1479
01:10:16,177 --> 01:10:19,145
- We heard the stories
of the previous cycles
1480
01:10:19,145 --> 01:10:22,977
and I think me and Gene
had kind of committed
1481
01:10:22,977 --> 01:10:27,464
to each other to
kind of preempt that
1482
01:10:27,464 --> 01:10:28,776
as much as we could.
1483
01:10:28,776 --> 01:10:30,295
Like whatever was in our power
1484
01:10:30,295 --> 01:10:33,677
just as Chuck's buddy but I
think there were a few times
1485
01:10:33,677 --> 01:10:35,990
that some stressful
moment would come up,
1486
01:10:35,990 --> 01:10:37,647
I don't know if Chuck
was having family issues
1487
01:10:37,647 --> 01:10:39,407
at home or maybe
there was some kind
1488
01:10:39,407 --> 01:10:40,753
of bullshit with management.
1489
01:10:40,753 --> 01:10:43,031
Whatever the fact, when
he would get that tense
1490
01:10:43,031 --> 01:10:47,208
kind of irritated
like almost ready
1491
01:10:47,208 --> 01:10:49,693
to do something,
whatever that may be,
1492
01:10:49,693 --> 01:10:52,178
me and Gene would step
in with a calm voice
1493
01:10:52,178 --> 01:10:54,974
and just assure we're
there, we wanna finish.
1494
01:10:54,974 --> 01:10:57,805
We wanna trudge on
and I think sometimes
1495
01:10:57,805 --> 01:10:59,876
it pulled Chuck back
in 'cause we were able
1496
01:10:59,876 --> 01:11:02,223
to finish all the
dates and everything.
1497
01:11:02,223 --> 01:11:05,295
- Individual Thought
Patterns was an angry record.
1498
01:11:05,295 --> 01:11:08,264
Angry lyrically
because he was just,
1499
01:11:08,264 --> 01:11:10,300
that was how he got
out his aggression
1500
01:11:10,300 --> 01:11:13,027
at a very volatile time for him,
1501
01:11:14,477 --> 01:11:18,412
at a time when we were at
odds with our partnership.
1502
01:11:18,412 --> 01:11:19,896
- [Chuck] A lot
of the new lyrics
1503
01:11:19,896 --> 01:11:24,210
reflect that what comes around
goes around type attitude.
1504
01:11:24,210 --> 01:11:25,729
I am set in my ways.
1505
01:11:25,729 --> 01:11:28,042
I'm going to continue
doing what I do.
1506
01:11:28,042 --> 01:11:31,735
It's what I enjoy and what
I know best how to do.
1507
01:11:31,735 --> 01:11:33,634
If I didn't do this I
don't know what I'd do.
1508
01:11:33,634 --> 01:11:34,945
Maybe I'd be a cook.
1509
01:11:34,945 --> 01:11:36,706
I like cooking.
1510
01:11:36,706 --> 01:11:38,052
That's pretty limited.
1511
01:12:11,327 --> 01:12:12,776
- He put a lot of meaning.
1512
01:12:12,776 --> 01:12:15,434
There was some stuff if
you read between the lines.
1513
01:12:15,434 --> 01:12:18,334
It was a way for him
to express himself
1514
01:12:18,334 --> 01:12:20,612
and he was honest about stuff
1515
01:12:20,612 --> 01:12:23,787
but he was a whole lot
bigger than his music.
1516
01:12:25,237 --> 01:12:26,756
- It's obvious he
was a complex guy.
1517
01:12:26,756 --> 01:12:27,826
Everybody knows that.
1518
01:12:30,449 --> 01:12:32,934
It wasn't like he was
personally attacking people.
1519
01:12:32,934 --> 01:12:34,453
It wasn't like that.
1520
01:12:34,453 --> 01:12:37,111
- He was wound a little
tighter than most people
1521
01:12:37,111 --> 01:12:40,148
so I think sometimes when
those stress issues came up,
1522
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:42,841
he was right on his last coil
1523
01:12:42,841 --> 01:12:46,154
and it just got to him
so we would see times
1524
01:12:46,154 --> 01:12:47,673
where he would
drift into that mode
1525
01:12:47,673 --> 01:12:52,678
but I think a combination
of having maybe guys
1526
01:12:53,886 --> 01:12:54,922
that were determined
like me and Gene,
1527
01:12:56,372 --> 01:12:59,513
trying to bring an air of
calm to the environment
1528
01:12:59,513 --> 01:13:03,102
plus I think Chuck
was maturing too.
1529
01:13:03,102 --> 01:13:04,483
We were all getting older.
1530
01:13:04,483 --> 01:13:08,004
I think he was able to
control himself too.
1531
01:13:08,004 --> 01:13:11,421
It just seemed to go a
little smoother that year.
1532
01:13:25,711 --> 01:13:27,817
When Symbolic songs
were being written
1533
01:13:27,817 --> 01:13:29,991
I was gonna be in
the lineup for that
1534
01:13:29,991 --> 01:13:31,268
and I was called to Florida
1535
01:13:31,268 --> 01:13:33,754
to work on the new song
ideas with him and Gene.
1536
01:13:33,754 --> 01:13:36,204
- Yeah, I essentially
moved into Chuck's place
1537
01:13:36,204 --> 01:13:40,519
for a long time, him,
myself and Steve DiGiorgio.
1538
01:13:40,519 --> 01:13:42,659
We had an eight
track recorder now
1539
01:13:42,659 --> 01:13:44,109
which was still
not a lot of tracks
1540
01:13:44,109 --> 01:13:47,181
but I remember we,
there was no way
1541
01:13:47,181 --> 01:13:49,597
we were gonna get
the decent drum sound
1542
01:13:49,597 --> 01:13:52,013
to make demos, it just
wasn't gonna happen
1543
01:13:52,013 --> 01:13:54,499
so we would work out
the songs, we'd play 'em
1544
01:13:54,499 --> 01:13:55,983
and I had my drum
machine with me
1545
01:13:55,983 --> 01:13:58,468
but what I did was I just
took my drum machine.
1546
01:13:58,468 --> 01:14:00,228
Everything that we'd
play in the afternoon
1547
01:14:00,228 --> 01:14:02,645
I'd spend hours at
night replicating
1548
01:14:02,645 --> 01:14:03,853
on the drum machine.
1549
01:14:03,853 --> 01:14:05,199
Then we'd have a
great sounding demo
1550
01:14:05,199 --> 01:14:08,064
where I'm the drum machine.
1551
01:14:08,064 --> 01:14:10,169
I'm playing exactly
what I'm playing live.
1552
01:14:18,419 --> 01:14:20,559
- And I recorded the
demo version of the song
1553
01:14:20,559 --> 01:14:22,975
and then my first
kid was being born
1554
01:14:22,975 --> 01:14:26,496
and Chuck was in a really
determined busy mode
1555
01:14:26,496 --> 01:14:27,739
and I wasn't able
to commit the time
1556
01:14:27,739 --> 01:14:29,534
so I wasn't able
to finish Symbolic.
1557
01:14:33,779 --> 01:14:36,989
- I can only speak to the
guy that I knew really well
1558
01:14:36,989 --> 01:14:39,371
and I know the guy I worked with
1559
01:14:39,371 --> 01:14:41,062
was really fun to be around
1560
01:14:41,062 --> 01:14:44,307
and really
artistically creative.
1561
01:14:44,307 --> 01:14:45,515
It was our first record together
1562
01:14:45,515 --> 01:14:47,552
but we had known each
other for probably seven
1563
01:14:47,552 --> 01:14:49,105
or eight years before that
1564
01:14:49,105 --> 01:14:50,347
'cause he'd been
working with Scott
1565
01:14:50,347 --> 01:14:51,556
so we'd see each
other in hallways,
1566
01:14:51,556 --> 01:14:53,281
go out to lunch and hang out.
1567
01:14:53,281 --> 01:14:55,698
When he first came to me to
say would you do the record
1568
01:14:55,698 --> 01:14:58,321
I said if you
really wanna do this
1569
01:14:58,321 --> 01:14:59,253
let's do it right.
1570
01:14:59,253 --> 01:15:01,669
Let's leave no stone unturned.
1571
01:15:01,669 --> 01:15:03,222
So he was very excited
about doing it.
1572
01:15:03,222 --> 01:15:05,915
He had no intrepidations
about doing it.
1573
01:15:05,915 --> 01:15:08,780
He just wanted to make
sure that we didn't
1574
01:15:08,780 --> 01:15:11,507
just say okay,
that's good enough.
1575
01:15:11,507 --> 01:15:13,923
It was always no,
is that good enough?
1576
01:15:13,923 --> 01:15:15,165
Yes, that's good enough.
1577
01:15:15,165 --> 01:15:16,788
Okay, let's try harder,
let's do it even more
1578
01:15:16,788 --> 01:15:20,619
and Chuck really wanting
to make a big step forward
1579
01:15:20,619 --> 01:15:22,310
on the record all
at the same time
1580
01:15:22,310 --> 01:15:25,900
and he kind of wanted to break
his own mold a little bit.
1581
01:15:25,900 --> 01:15:27,592
- There was no hiatus going on.
1582
01:15:27,592 --> 01:15:29,421
There just wasn't a
lot of live activity.
1583
01:15:29,421 --> 01:15:32,389
I know there was Voodoo
Club and then Voodoo Cult
1584
01:15:32,389 --> 01:15:34,115
but I didn't know that
Chuck was like yeah,
1585
01:15:34,115 --> 01:15:36,324
I did some project some guy.
1586
01:15:36,324 --> 01:15:37,705
- [mumbling], he
did produce a lot
1587
01:15:37,705 --> 01:15:39,742
of the early Century
Media records
1588
01:15:39,742 --> 01:15:41,088
and he was also [mumbling].
1589
01:15:42,227 --> 01:15:43,849
I think that was
his project mostly.
1590
01:15:43,849 --> 01:15:46,852
It was kind of this
early super group.
1591
01:15:46,852 --> 01:15:49,027
You didn't have a lot of metal
super groups at that time
1592
01:15:49,027 --> 01:15:50,615
and that was one
of the first ones
1593
01:15:50,615 --> 01:15:52,686
but it didn't have a US release,
1594
01:15:52,686 --> 01:15:53,825
I don't believe it did.
1595
01:15:54,998 --> 01:15:56,034
You can only get
it on import here
1596
01:15:56,034 --> 01:15:57,414
and it just didn't do that well
1597
01:15:57,414 --> 01:15:58,795
and I remember listening to it
1598
01:15:58,795 --> 01:16:00,556
and thinking that's too bad.
1599
01:16:00,556 --> 01:16:02,040
All these great
guys on one record
1600
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:03,904
and it's just not that great.
1601
01:16:03,904 --> 01:16:07,114
- When I eventually did end
up getting a call from him
1602
01:16:07,114 --> 01:16:09,426
to see if I would be
interested in auditioning
1603
01:16:12,119 --> 01:16:13,569
we remembered that day,
remembered that afternoon.
1604
01:16:13,569 --> 01:16:15,329
We actually had a mutual friend.
1605
01:16:15,329 --> 01:16:17,814
John worked at this
store called Guitars Plus
1606
01:16:17,814 --> 01:16:19,298
which was in downtown Orlando
1607
01:16:20,679 --> 01:16:22,508
and he just called my
house and left a message.
1608
01:16:22,508 --> 01:16:23,958
Bobby, pick up the phone.
1609
01:16:23,958 --> 01:16:25,201
Bobby, pick up the phone.
1610
01:16:26,478 --> 01:16:30,206
God damn it, Bobby,
why aren't you home?
1611
01:16:31,379 --> 01:16:35,004
- So we kind of had that
guitar spot still open
1612
01:16:35,004 --> 01:16:36,799
which we were looking
for a permanent player
1613
01:16:36,799 --> 01:16:39,353
and we found Bobby Koelble.
1614
01:16:39,353 --> 01:16:41,424
He's an excellent guitar player
1615
01:16:41,424 --> 01:16:44,254
and he plays really
from his heart and soul
1616
01:16:44,254 --> 01:16:45,842
which is very important.
1617
01:16:45,842 --> 01:16:47,913
We need to keep things
running smoothly
1618
01:16:47,913 --> 01:16:50,088
and we need to have the
right people in the band
1619
01:16:50,088 --> 01:16:53,056
and this I feel is a
very good band right now.
1620
01:16:53,056 --> 01:16:54,299
It's excellent.
1621
01:16:54,299 --> 01:16:56,370
- So I got home and
I heard it, I'm like.
1622
01:16:56,370 --> 01:16:58,372
Obviously I called him back.
1623
01:16:58,372 --> 01:16:59,925
He's like dude, do you
remember that afternoon
1624
01:16:59,925 --> 01:17:01,755
at Dave's place and
I was like yeah man,
1625
01:17:01,755 --> 01:17:03,273
I remember that.
1626
01:17:03,273 --> 01:17:04,205
He was like yeah, that
was awesome right?
1627
01:17:04,205 --> 01:17:05,413
And I was like yeah, cool.
1628
01:17:11,627 --> 01:17:15,769
- For Symbolic, Chuck's
riffs were starting
1629
01:17:15,769 --> 01:17:20,774
to really explore his
love of 80s power metal.
1630
01:17:21,637 --> 01:17:24,363
It's like he went back 10 years
1631
01:17:24,363 --> 01:17:27,366
and really started
letting his metal flow.
1632
01:17:27,366 --> 01:17:29,886
- And he wanted to
really inject more
1633
01:17:29,886 --> 01:17:31,957
of a melodic content
into death metal
1634
01:17:31,957 --> 01:17:35,547
which is somewhat of a
dichotomy there, right,
1635
01:17:35,547 --> 01:17:37,238
but he really wanted to do it
1636
01:17:37,238 --> 01:17:38,654
so if you listen to
Symbolic and listen
1637
01:17:38,654 --> 01:17:42,312
for the guitar parts,
there's a giant leap forward
1638
01:17:42,312 --> 01:17:46,178
to my year in the melody
content of the guitar parts.
1639
01:17:46,178 --> 01:17:47,766
- [Male] Maybe again
some of that was through
1640
01:17:47,766 --> 01:17:51,736
that appreciation for more
power metal structures
1641
01:17:51,736 --> 01:17:53,427
and vocals and things like that.
1642
01:17:53,427 --> 01:17:56,016
He was able to take
those influences
1643
01:17:56,016 --> 01:17:57,465
and translate them
into something
1644
01:17:57,465 --> 01:17:58,812
not necessarily more commercial
1645
01:17:58,812 --> 01:18:01,642
but something more
relatable to [mumbling].
1646
01:18:03,264 --> 01:18:06,647
- I think there's a chunky
sort of heavier direct element
1647
01:18:06,647 --> 01:18:09,477
to Symbolic that we hadn't
heard since Spiritual really.
1648
01:18:10,686 --> 01:18:12,411
I think Chuck started
to bring in some
1649
01:18:12,411 --> 01:18:14,517
of the riffs, bring in
some of the arrangements.
1650
01:18:14,517 --> 01:18:16,484
Make it maybe a
little more memorable.
1651
01:18:16,484 --> 01:18:18,417
- I think that just
came from his influence
1652
01:18:18,417 --> 01:18:21,351
of listening to more
mainstream metal acts
1653
01:18:21,351 --> 01:18:22,698
or even hard rock acts.
1654
01:18:22,698 --> 01:18:24,769
It's well known that he
was a fan of Queensryche
1655
01:18:24,769 --> 01:18:26,011
and all kinds of
different bands.
1656
01:18:26,011 --> 01:18:28,876
He wasn't just a
brutal metal guy,
1657
01:18:28,876 --> 01:18:30,119
only listen to brutal music.
1658
01:18:30,119 --> 01:18:32,362
It was far from it,
you know what I mean?
1659
01:18:32,362 --> 01:18:34,433
But he brought some
of those elements
1660
01:18:34,433 --> 01:18:36,125
but he did it his own way.
1661
01:18:36,125 --> 01:18:38,541
I think the song structure
certainly on Symbolic
1662
01:18:40,543 --> 01:18:44,409
had more metal in it and
not so much brutality
1663
01:18:44,409 --> 01:18:46,583
although it's still brutal
but in a different way,
1664
01:18:46,583 --> 01:18:47,792
you know what I mean?
1665
01:18:47,792 --> 01:18:49,241
Almost even the way
he sang the songs,
1666
01:18:49,241 --> 01:18:51,105
you could almost, he seemed
1667
01:18:51,105 --> 01:18:52,831
to pronounce the
words more clear.
1668
01:18:56,628 --> 01:18:58,734
- There's a stealthy melodic
content to his vocals.
1669
01:18:58,734 --> 01:19:01,564
He wanted to take
melodies and go.
1670
01:19:01,564 --> 01:19:03,669
He wanted to really
drive that direction.
1671
01:19:03,669 --> 01:19:05,464
How do you put more
melody into his music?
1672
01:19:05,464 --> 01:19:06,638
You can't do it
with the guitars.
1673
01:19:06,638 --> 01:19:08,019
He's already really,
really melodic
1674
01:19:08,019 --> 01:19:09,745
so the vocals is the next piece
1675
01:19:09,745 --> 01:19:11,470
and then I heard him sing
and I'm like oh my god,
1676
01:19:11,470 --> 01:19:13,887
you can sing, you're
great at doing this.
1677
01:19:13,887 --> 01:19:16,027
You could sing any
kind of metal stuff
1678
01:19:16,027 --> 01:19:17,580
and he said yeah,
but I don't like
1679
01:19:17,580 --> 01:19:18,581
to sing when I'm playing guitar
1680
01:19:18,581 --> 01:19:19,962
so I have to have a singer.
1681
01:19:19,962 --> 01:19:22,550
I still wish I could
have recorded Chuck
1682
01:19:22,550 --> 01:19:23,759
actually doing the
vocals through it
1683
01:19:23,759 --> 01:19:25,346
and had like another
version of the record
1684
01:19:25,346 --> 01:19:26,554
but that would never go.
1685
01:19:30,144 --> 01:19:31,767
- I think that the
last couple records
1686
01:19:31,767 --> 01:19:35,909
in particular, Symbolic and
The Sound of Perseverance
1687
01:19:35,909 --> 01:19:39,188
were records that I
think they were lost
1688
01:19:39,188 --> 01:19:41,777
to a generation of
early death metal fans
1689
01:19:41,777 --> 01:19:44,296
and I think people
only kinda began
1690
01:19:44,296 --> 01:19:46,954
to rediscover them
as time went on.
1691
01:19:46,954 --> 01:19:48,991
- Because he clearly
he wasn't kind of
1692
01:19:51,303 --> 01:19:53,927
doing the usual
death metal thing.
1693
01:19:53,927 --> 01:19:55,445
He wasn't sticking
to the stereotype.
1694
01:19:55,445 --> 01:19:57,793
He wasn't playing with all the
usual tropes of death metal.
1695
01:19:57,793 --> 01:20:00,761
He was always moving
forward and I think
1696
01:20:00,761 --> 01:20:02,625
by the time Symbolic
had come out
1697
01:20:02,625 --> 01:20:06,767
there really wasn't
that much great
1698
01:20:06,767 --> 01:20:08,424
happening in death
metal at the time anyway
1699
01:20:08,424 --> 01:20:11,116
so naturally he would wanna
distance himself a little bit
1700
01:20:11,116 --> 01:20:14,602
from that and again,
Chuck just wanted Death
1701
01:20:14,602 --> 01:20:17,847
to be a really really
super heavy metal band
1702
01:20:17,847 --> 01:20:20,574
and that's it,
nothing more or less.
1703
01:20:20,574 --> 01:20:23,888
It's just that he was
ensnared by his band's name
1704
01:20:23,888 --> 01:20:26,511
and his band's logo and you
can't get away from that.
1705
01:20:26,511 --> 01:20:28,616
- It's a pretty brutal
name definitely.
1706
01:20:28,616 --> 01:20:31,343
At the time I wanted
something extreme,
1707
01:20:31,343 --> 01:20:34,968
something brutal, shocking
to go along with the music
1708
01:20:34,968 --> 01:20:37,763
and now I would probably
call it something different
1709
01:20:37,763 --> 01:20:39,593
but it's kind of stuck with us.
1710
01:20:39,593 --> 01:20:42,182
I think the name Death
only hinders the band
1711
01:20:42,182 --> 01:20:43,562
to a certain point
but at the same time
1712
01:20:43,562 --> 01:20:45,806
people really dig
it and hopefully
1713
01:20:45,806 --> 01:20:47,049
they just take it as a name
1714
01:20:47,049 --> 01:20:50,293
describing the sound
that we started with.
1715
01:20:50,293 --> 01:20:53,779
- If you had a Jeff
Tate type vocalist,
1716
01:20:53,779 --> 01:20:57,369
a vocalist that would
grasp the invisible orange,
1717
01:20:58,543 --> 01:21:01,304
Chuck, that was Chuck's
action right there.
1718
01:21:01,304 --> 01:21:04,100
He would complain
constantly about like,
1719
01:21:04,100 --> 01:21:06,240
I wish I didn't have
to sing on this music.
1720
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:08,035
I wish I had a real
singer doing this
1721
01:21:08,035 --> 01:21:09,830
because then I'd
be really happy.
1722
01:21:09,830 --> 01:21:12,005
- But it wouldn't be Death.
1723
01:21:12,005 --> 01:21:14,766
Roadrunner would flip, right,
1724
01:21:14,766 --> 01:21:18,218
if suddenly Chuck sang
and Chuck could sing.
1725
01:21:18,218 --> 01:21:19,736
They would've
flipped because they
1726
01:21:19,736 --> 01:21:23,154
were expecting Death and the
fans were expecting Death
1727
01:21:23,154 --> 01:21:25,466
so what the heck is
Chuck supposed to do?
1728
01:21:26,882 --> 01:21:30,575
So in his mind he invented
Control Denied at that point.
1729
01:21:30,575 --> 01:21:32,439
- I was gonna be more
of a melodic project
1730
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:35,235
with him just playing guitar
with a different singer
1731
01:21:35,235 --> 01:21:36,857
and he was just kinda like dude,
1732
01:21:36,857 --> 01:21:39,377
I don't wanna deal
with this anymore.
1733
01:21:39,377 --> 01:21:41,344
- He just wanted to
do something bigger.
1734
01:21:41,344 --> 01:21:43,622
He felt like the
death metal thing
1735
01:21:43,622 --> 01:21:47,040
had kinda been done
really, really well
1736
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:49,766
by him and other guys up to that
1737
01:21:49,766 --> 01:21:52,838
and he wanted to say
let's do the next thing.
1738
01:21:52,838 --> 01:21:54,461
Let's go farther.
1739
01:21:54,461 --> 01:21:57,084
- I don't know if
that's something a
lot of people realize
1740
01:21:57,084 --> 01:22:00,087
but yeah, Death was
actually over as a band
1741
01:22:00,087 --> 01:22:01,364
after the Symbolic tours.
1742
01:22:02,538 --> 01:22:04,885
At that point in time,
Chuck's relationship
1743
01:22:04,885 --> 01:22:07,819
with Roadrunner had
pretty much gone south.
1744
01:22:07,819 --> 01:22:11,581
- People were getting boxed in.
1745
01:22:11,581 --> 01:22:14,515
It became like really,
really a stiff genre
1746
01:22:14,515 --> 01:22:18,554
which is exactly backwards
from the way it got invented.
1747
01:22:18,554 --> 01:22:21,108
The original death metal
stuff was let's be outrageous,
1748
01:22:21,108 --> 01:22:23,766
do new stuff, be
totally different
1749
01:22:23,766 --> 01:22:26,458
and then a few years
later, be totally different
1750
01:22:26,458 --> 01:22:28,736
as long as it's exactly this
and just one little thing.
1751
01:22:28,736 --> 01:22:29,979
Don't go outside of that.
1752
01:22:31,325 --> 01:22:33,431
You don't say that
to Chuck Schuldiner.
1753
01:22:33,431 --> 01:22:35,088
Don't do a thing different
1754
01:22:35,088 --> 01:22:37,780
would not work too
well with Chuck.
1755
01:22:37,780 --> 01:22:42,785
♪ This is not a test of power
1756
01:22:43,544 --> 01:22:48,273
♪ This is not a game
1757
01:22:48,273 --> 01:22:52,415
♪ To be lost or won,
let justice be done ♪
1758
01:22:52,415 --> 01:22:57,386
- We were in Europe for
about probably maybe five
1759
01:22:58,594 --> 01:22:59,871
or six weeks or so,
maybe four weeks,
1760
01:22:59,871 --> 01:23:04,496
and Symbolic was just
coming out at that time
1761
01:23:05,635 --> 01:23:09,985
I remember after or
during, after one show,
1762
01:23:11,089 --> 01:23:13,885
we got the latest
whatever huge magazine
1763
01:23:13,885 --> 01:23:15,956
in Europe it was,
[mumbling] the back cover
1764
01:23:15,956 --> 01:23:20,788
was a Symbolic ad and
it had four other albums
1765
01:23:20,788 --> 01:23:23,067
from four different
death metal bands
1766
01:23:23,067 --> 01:23:24,930
and this is when Chuck
was really trying
1767
01:23:24,930 --> 01:23:27,726
to get away from that
tag, just flat out.
1768
01:23:28,693 --> 01:23:29,970
It's what he was trying to do.
1769
01:23:29,970 --> 01:23:31,109
He didn't wanna be
called death metal
1770
01:23:31,109 --> 01:23:33,560
and he called the
record label screaming,
1771
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:36,011
raging at 'em, I told
you not to do this,
1772
01:23:36,011 --> 01:23:37,598
I told you not to
do this, fuck you,
1773
01:23:37,598 --> 01:23:39,738
I would rather break up my band
1774
01:23:39,738 --> 01:23:41,533
than work for you anymore.
1775
01:23:41,533 --> 01:23:46,538
Then a few days later
I had done something
1776
01:23:47,401 --> 01:23:49,162
to piss him off and I had really
1777
01:23:49,162 --> 01:23:51,129
never done anything
to piss him off before
1778
01:23:51,129 --> 01:23:54,132
but he got pissed
at this and then
1779
01:23:54,132 --> 01:23:55,616
the last 10 days of the tour
1780
01:23:55,616 --> 01:23:58,516
were just absolute misery.
1781
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:02,037
- We were touring with the
English band Benediction
1782
01:24:02,037 --> 01:24:04,039
and we had a night
off from the tour
1783
01:24:04,039 --> 01:24:05,868
but Benediction had
a gig that night.
1784
01:24:05,868 --> 01:24:07,283
It was somewhere in Germany
1785
01:24:07,283 --> 01:24:09,078
and so we ended up
going to the gig
1786
01:24:09,078 --> 01:24:10,597
and we just parked outside
1787
01:24:10,597 --> 01:24:12,599
but we didn't do the gig,
Benediction did the gig.
1788
01:24:12,599 --> 01:24:14,049
So anyway, Benediction
was like oh,
1789
01:24:14,049 --> 01:24:15,464
you gotta come up
and play a song.
1790
01:24:15,464 --> 01:24:16,672
You gotta come up
and play a song.
1791
01:24:16,672 --> 01:24:18,018
It's like alright,
well whatever.
1792
01:24:18,018 --> 01:24:19,433
We'll see what happens.
1793
01:24:19,433 --> 01:24:22,643
Anyway, Chuck stayed on the bus.
1794
01:24:22,643 --> 01:24:24,852
Bryan, bass player
Bryan, Gene and I
1795
01:24:24,852 --> 01:24:26,958
ended up going inside and
checking out the Benediction gig
1796
01:24:26,958 --> 01:24:29,340
and there were like five people
in there in the audience.
1797
01:24:29,340 --> 01:24:31,204
There was nobody there.
1798
01:24:31,204 --> 01:24:32,929
There was like
literally five fans
1799
01:24:32,929 --> 01:24:33,861
standing in front of the stage
1800
01:24:33,861 --> 01:24:34,793
and then other beside from that
1801
01:24:34,793 --> 01:24:36,623
it was just staff of the place.
1802
01:24:36,623 --> 01:24:38,832
So we're just kicking back
having a couple of beers,
1803
01:24:38,832 --> 01:24:41,110
watching the show
and all of a sudden
1804
01:24:41,110 --> 01:24:43,285
Benediction's like we're
gonna have some musicians
1805
01:24:43,285 --> 01:24:45,114
in Death come up
and play a song.
1806
01:24:45,114 --> 01:24:46,322
Me and Brian are
just kind of looking
1807
01:24:46,322 --> 01:24:48,221
at each other like okay,
what's gonna happen?
1808
01:24:48,221 --> 01:24:50,326
And Gene started
getting up on stage.
1809
01:24:50,326 --> 01:24:52,225
It's like okay,
I guess we're on.
1810
01:24:52,225 --> 01:24:55,090
So we went up and
we got up there,
1811
01:24:55,090 --> 01:24:58,196
we're standing around, we
didn't know what to play.
1812
01:24:58,196 --> 01:24:59,128
We're just kind
of standing there
1813
01:24:59,128 --> 01:25:00,992
looking at each other.
1814
01:25:00,992 --> 01:25:03,167
What are we gonna do,
what are we gonna do?
1815
01:25:03,167 --> 01:25:04,375
Well come on,
Gene's like come on,
1816
01:25:04,375 --> 01:25:05,790
let's play something.
1817
01:25:05,790 --> 01:25:06,998
What are we gonna do?
1818
01:25:06,998 --> 01:25:09,552
Okay, Chuck's
nowhere to be found.
1819
01:25:09,552 --> 01:25:12,900
Let's play Zombie
Ritual in front
1820
01:25:12,900 --> 01:25:14,178
of these five German fans
1821
01:25:15,282 --> 01:25:17,250
and our sound guy Paul happened
1822
01:25:17,250 --> 01:25:20,184
to be hanging out there
and who's gonna sing it?
1823
01:25:20,184 --> 01:25:21,668
I don't know, who's
gonna sing it?
1824
01:25:21,668 --> 01:25:23,842
Paul, can you sing Zombie Ritual
1825
01:25:23,842 --> 01:25:26,293
and Paul's kind of like
well, okay I guess.
1826
01:25:26,293 --> 01:25:27,777
So he got up there,
grabbed the mic
1827
01:25:27,777 --> 01:25:30,055
and we plowed
through Zombie Ritual
1828
01:25:30,055 --> 01:25:31,298
and Paul was up
there singing it,
1829
01:25:31,298 --> 01:25:33,887
just kind of having fun with it.
1830
01:25:33,887 --> 01:25:35,337
Anyway, we did it
and that was that.
1831
01:25:35,337 --> 01:25:36,407
We all thought it was harmless.
1832
01:25:36,407 --> 01:25:37,649
Well Chuck found out about it
1833
01:25:37,649 --> 01:25:39,306
and he wasn't very
happy about it.
1834
01:25:39,306 --> 01:25:40,963
The next day he kind
of sat us all down.
1835
01:25:40,963 --> 01:25:43,241
He's like you know what,
that was really not cool
1836
01:25:43,241 --> 01:25:45,623
and disrespectful and basically,
1837
01:25:45,623 --> 01:25:47,866
you shouldn't have done that.
1838
01:25:48,798 --> 01:25:50,973
Very strongly worded
1839
01:25:50,973 --> 01:25:54,701
and no one else
really said anything
1840
01:25:54,701 --> 01:25:56,910
so I just for whatever reason,
1841
01:25:56,910 --> 01:25:58,498
I decided to speak
up, I'm like Chuck,
1842
01:25:58,498 --> 01:25:59,878
we really didn't
mean anything by it.
1843
01:25:59,878 --> 01:26:01,017
It really wasn't
that big of a deal.
1844
01:26:01,017 --> 01:26:02,985
There was no one in the club.
1845
01:26:02,985 --> 01:26:05,539
And he's like you
know what, man?
1846
01:26:06,506 --> 01:26:07,955
You're conjuring a dick.
1847
01:26:09,094 --> 01:26:10,579
I'll never forget that phrase.
1848
01:26:10,579 --> 01:26:13,237
It echoes in my head all
the time ever since then.
1849
01:26:13,237 --> 01:26:14,479
You're conjuring a dick.
1850
01:26:15,618 --> 01:26:17,310
I set you up, I take
care of you guys
1851
01:26:17,310 --> 01:26:20,071
and you go out and you
disrespect me and my music.
1852
01:26:20,071 --> 01:26:22,073
You're conjuring a dick.
1853
01:26:22,073 --> 01:26:24,558
- That last 10 days were
just, they weren't fun.
1854
01:26:24,558 --> 01:26:26,457
They were a real
challenge to get through.
1855
01:26:26,457 --> 01:26:28,666
We got through it
and that's the thing.
1856
01:26:28,666 --> 01:26:30,323
When Chuck broke up the band,
1857
01:26:30,323 --> 01:26:33,118
when he said this is it,
we're done after this
1858
01:26:33,118 --> 01:26:34,844
I was like now I
don't have to quit
1859
01:26:34,844 --> 01:26:36,363
'cause I was quitting
after Symbolic
1860
01:26:36,363 --> 01:26:38,400
because we had started working
1861
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:41,610
on what was gonna become
The Sound of Perseverance
1862
01:26:41,610 --> 01:26:46,373
and I wasn't super
satisfied myself
1863
01:26:46,373 --> 01:26:48,203
with the direction
things were going.
1864
01:26:48,203 --> 01:26:49,652
I was dreading it
because I was like man,
1865
01:26:49,652 --> 01:26:51,171
I'm really gonna let him down.
1866
01:26:51,171 --> 01:26:53,311
He's probably happy to have
a relatively solid lineup
1867
01:26:53,311 --> 01:26:54,623
together and
probably thinks this
1868
01:26:54,623 --> 01:26:56,038
is gonna go on for a long time
1869
01:26:56,038 --> 01:26:58,558
and he told me something like
1870
01:26:59,938 --> 01:27:02,182
they had prepared all
these Control Denied demos.
1871
01:27:02,182 --> 01:27:04,149
They had the lineup,
they had the logo.
1872
01:27:04,149 --> 01:27:05,323
It was a full band.
1873
01:27:05,323 --> 01:27:08,223
They were ready to move
on to the next step.
1874
01:27:08,223 --> 01:27:10,328
That was to get a budget
from a record company,
1875
01:27:10,328 --> 01:27:13,987
get signed and do
it the real way.
1876
01:27:13,987 --> 01:27:16,714
- The labels didn't wanna gamble
1877
01:27:16,714 --> 01:27:18,198
with Control Denied.
1878
01:27:18,198 --> 01:27:20,476
They didn't wanna gamble
with him changing the name,
1879
01:27:20,476 --> 01:27:22,892
changing the plan because Death
1880
01:27:22,892 --> 01:27:26,033
was an established thing
1881
01:27:26,033 --> 01:27:29,244
and they wanted to
invest in something
1882
01:27:29,244 --> 01:27:30,762
that they knew was more solid
1883
01:27:30,762 --> 01:27:33,282
and they had a better idea
of what he was gonna do.
1884
01:27:34,249 --> 01:27:35,733
- Signs was Nuclear Blast.
1885
01:27:35,733 --> 01:27:36,665
They're the savior.
1886
01:27:36,665 --> 01:27:38,736
They're gonna be so fantastic.
1887
01:27:38,736 --> 01:27:39,978
They're my new label.
1888
01:27:41,152 --> 01:27:43,119
But they said we'll do
a Control Denied record
1889
01:27:43,119 --> 01:27:45,121
but we want one
more Death record.
1890
01:27:45,121 --> 01:27:50,126
- In other words, Bite
the Pain, Spirit Crusher,
1891
01:27:51,266 --> 01:27:53,820
Story To Tell, Voice of the Soul
1892
01:27:53,820 --> 01:27:56,409
and a Moment of
Clarity, all five
1893
01:27:56,409 --> 01:27:59,619
were originally
Control Denied songs.
1894
01:28:01,552 --> 01:28:04,348
We had recorded those
as demo versions.
1895
01:28:04,348 --> 01:28:05,935
Chuck had put some clean vocals
1896
01:28:05,935 --> 01:28:07,972
on a couple of those and we
1897
01:28:07,972 --> 01:28:10,285
were auditioning different
singers with those.
1898
01:28:30,822 --> 01:28:33,308
- When I got to
Metal Maniacs in 97
1899
01:28:33,308 --> 01:28:36,000
as a fan of Chuck and Death,
1900
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:37,381
I had nothing to do with him
1901
01:28:38,830 --> 01:28:43,835
and then suddenly Borivoj
Krgin, he now runs Blabbermouth,
1902
01:28:45,285 --> 01:28:47,011
he was the news columnist
for Maniacs at the time.
1903
01:28:48,495 --> 01:28:50,117
He wrote something
about Control Denied
1904
01:28:50,117 --> 01:28:51,671
that Chuck didn't like.
1905
01:28:51,671 --> 01:28:54,398
It sort of intimated
that Control Denied
1906
01:28:54,398 --> 01:28:56,123
was being put on ice
because he couldn't
1907
01:28:56,123 --> 01:28:58,816
find a record deal and
he was reviving Death
1908
01:28:58,816 --> 01:29:00,335
and he even intimated that Death
1909
01:29:00,335 --> 01:29:03,096
was gonna be using some of
these Control Denied riffs
1910
01:29:04,615 --> 01:29:06,858
and Borivoj and
Chuck's relationship
1911
01:29:06,858 --> 01:29:09,482
up to that point had been a
little bit strained already
1912
01:29:09,482 --> 01:29:11,276
so Chuck took that
very personally,
1913
01:29:11,276 --> 01:29:14,003
though Borivoj was slagging him
1914
01:29:14,003 --> 01:29:17,144
or making, kind of cutting
him down a little bit
1915
01:29:18,180 --> 01:29:19,492
and I got the heat on that
1916
01:29:19,492 --> 01:29:20,976
because I printed
what Borivoj said
1917
01:29:20,976 --> 01:29:22,253
without checking with Chuck
1918
01:29:22,253 --> 01:29:23,944
and Chuck came to me directly,
1919
01:29:23,944 --> 01:29:26,015
I think I got a call
one day, it was Chuck,
1920
01:29:26,015 --> 01:29:27,948
before caller ID or whatever
1921
01:29:27,948 --> 01:29:31,158
and we talked and by the
end of the conversation
1922
01:29:31,158 --> 01:29:32,677
he understood that I'm
totally on his side,
1923
01:29:32,677 --> 01:29:36,301
I'm a total fan and
that I don't think,
1924
01:29:36,301 --> 01:29:38,027
I tried to tell him that I don't
1925
01:29:38,027 --> 01:29:40,513
think Borivoj wrote
anything all that negative.
1926
01:29:40,513 --> 01:29:42,204
He was just reporting.
1927
01:29:42,204 --> 01:29:43,826
- But since those
songs were complete
1928
01:29:43,826 --> 01:29:45,310
and it was a last minute deal
1929
01:29:45,310 --> 01:29:48,797
because they wanted to
push for that album,
1930
01:29:48,797 --> 01:29:50,039
for another Death album,
1931
01:29:50,039 --> 01:29:53,111
they wanted us to go do
that Dynamo festival,
1932
01:29:53,111 --> 01:29:55,044
headline with Pantera.
1933
01:29:55,044 --> 01:29:56,770
- And when I heard
that I was like,
1934
01:29:58,151 --> 01:30:00,947
it can't even be real
because the Dynamo festival
1935
01:30:00,947 --> 01:30:03,915
is massive and Dynamo
is the third live show
1936
01:30:03,915 --> 01:30:05,848
I'd ever played with the band
1937
01:30:05,848 --> 01:30:08,161
and it's in front of
about 40000 people.
1938
01:30:09,645 --> 01:30:12,648
[death metal music]
1939
01:30:57,175 --> 01:31:00,420
- So we didn't even really
get much opportunity
1940
01:31:00,420 --> 01:31:03,043
to really even rehearse
for that whole first leg
1941
01:31:03,043 --> 01:31:04,251
of that tour.
1942
01:31:04,251 --> 01:31:06,357
The lineup started
getting a lot tighter
1943
01:31:06,357 --> 01:31:08,186
near the end of
it, around the time
1944
01:31:08,186 --> 01:31:09,636
where it got to
Chile and the shows
1945
01:31:09,636 --> 01:31:10,879
were getting a lot better
1946
01:31:10,879 --> 01:31:13,398
because we were a lot
tighter as a group.
1947
01:31:13,398 --> 01:31:16,401
[death metal music]
1948
01:31:32,348 --> 01:31:37,008
- It wasn't too long after
we finished the American tour
1949
01:31:37,008 --> 01:31:38,493
for Sound of
Perseverance that we
1950
01:31:38,493 --> 01:31:42,635
started working on recording
the Control Denied album
1951
01:31:42,635 --> 01:31:46,086
and I helped Chuck
move from his house
1952
01:31:46,086 --> 01:31:47,605
in Orlando out to his farmhouse,
1953
01:31:47,605 --> 01:31:49,538
we're at his home studio
1954
01:31:49,538 --> 01:31:53,369
and we're moving some heavy
cabinets and things like that
1955
01:31:53,369 --> 01:31:58,202
and I kind of remember
a little bit after that,
1956
01:31:58,202 --> 01:32:00,756
he had some soreness and--
1957
01:32:00,756 --> 01:32:04,104
- I thought he was stressed out.
1958
01:32:04,104 --> 01:32:06,244
We talked about
it a lot and both
1959
01:32:06,244 --> 01:32:08,177
of us thought that the
issues he was having,
1960
01:32:08,177 --> 01:32:09,731
the tension he was
feeling in his neck
1961
01:32:09,731 --> 01:32:12,112
and stuff was
because of tension.
1962
01:32:12,112 --> 01:32:13,355
- He told me early on.
1963
01:32:13,355 --> 01:32:15,633
He told me when he had
like a pain in his neck
1964
01:32:15,633 --> 01:32:17,152
or something, he said that,
1965
01:32:17,152 --> 01:32:18,981
he had asked me if I was
familiar with acupuncture
1966
01:32:18,981 --> 01:32:21,087
and I was like no,
I have no idea.
1967
01:32:21,087 --> 01:32:23,192
He said he was going
to a chiropractor
1968
01:32:23,192 --> 01:32:24,953
to fix a pain in his neck,
it wasn't doing anything.
1969
01:32:24,953 --> 01:32:27,680
- I can't remember
what they did for him.
1970
01:32:27,680 --> 01:32:29,026
They probably made
some adjustments
1971
01:32:29,026 --> 01:32:31,062
which didn't help him obviously.
1972
01:32:31,062 --> 01:32:32,477
Then he went to an acupuncturist
1973
01:32:32,477 --> 01:32:36,033
and from what I understand
she put one needle
1974
01:32:36,033 --> 01:32:38,138
in the back of his
neck and went like this
1975
01:32:38,138 --> 01:32:39,554
and said go get an MRI.
1976
01:32:43,730 --> 01:32:46,491
- It was on his birthday
1977
01:32:47,769 --> 01:32:51,738
and the doctor told him
he had a brain tumor.
1978
01:32:51,738 --> 01:32:54,534
Yeah, I remember that day
like it was yesterday.
1979
01:32:55,742 --> 01:32:57,157
- And he picked me up
early from high school
1980
01:32:57,157 --> 01:33:00,505
which was strange and
it was my grandfather
1981
01:33:00,505 --> 01:33:03,439
and Chuck in Chuck's van,
my grandfather was driving
1982
01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:06,063
and Chuck said I got some
bad news, I'm really sick.
1983
01:33:07,202 --> 01:33:11,689
- And I remember kind
of being horrified
1984
01:33:11,689 --> 01:33:16,694
because I had just not
even given a thought
1985
01:33:17,592 --> 01:33:18,696
to something like that.
1986
01:33:20,215 --> 01:33:22,286
- You don't even
know how to respond
1987
01:33:22,286 --> 01:33:23,908
or react when your best friend
1988
01:33:23,908 --> 01:33:26,014
tells you that they have cancer.
1989
01:33:26,014 --> 01:33:27,429
It was just devastating.
1990
01:33:29,845 --> 01:33:33,124
- They went into the studio to
do the Control Denied record
1991
01:33:33,124 --> 01:33:36,438
and apparently it was
kind of a bad session
1992
01:33:36,438 --> 01:33:38,613
and he called me and he
made a cassette copy,
1993
01:33:38,613 --> 01:33:41,926
mailed it to me and said
will you play on the album?
1994
01:33:41,926 --> 01:33:44,032
So I called him, I
said sure, I'd love to
1995
01:33:44,032 --> 01:33:45,620
'cause I keep
getting called back
1996
01:33:45,620 --> 01:33:48,070
and when he sent me that tape,
1997
01:33:48,070 --> 01:33:50,141
I told him I'd like to
listen to it for a few weeks
1998
01:33:50,141 --> 01:33:53,282
and absorb it and
really get into it
1999
01:33:53,282 --> 01:33:55,630
and he's like no, I need
you to come tomorrow.
2000
01:33:55,630 --> 01:33:58,184
This is already overdue
so we don't have any time
2001
01:33:58,184 --> 01:33:59,599
to spare, you need to get here
2002
01:33:59,599 --> 01:34:00,738
and just get it recorded.
2003
01:34:01,877 --> 01:34:03,568
And so I said okay,
well I'll come straight
2004
01:34:03,568 --> 01:34:06,226
to your house, we'll
just go over everything.
2005
01:34:06,226 --> 01:34:08,366
Just push play, sit
there and jam with it
2006
01:34:08,366 --> 01:34:09,644
and I'll just learn it.
2007
01:34:09,644 --> 01:34:13,475
I'll just crash course,
learn as fast as I can.
2008
01:34:13,475 --> 01:34:14,303
He says okay.
2009
01:34:15,995 --> 01:34:18,066
The next day comes
and he calls me
2010
01:34:18,066 --> 01:34:19,584
and he says you all set to come?
2011
01:34:19,584 --> 01:34:20,655
I said yep.
2012
01:34:20,655 --> 01:34:21,828
He goes well I tell you what,
2013
01:34:21,828 --> 01:34:23,312
I'm not gonna be here
when you get here.
2014
01:34:23,312 --> 01:34:25,867
I need to go to New
York for radiation.
2015
01:34:25,867 --> 01:34:30,457
Whoa, okay, that's
heavy in two places.
2016
01:34:30,457 --> 01:34:31,942
Obviously the first
one being wow,
2017
01:34:31,942 --> 01:34:33,944
you're going to get
radiation but then
2018
01:34:33,944 --> 01:34:35,531
I said what am I gonna do?
2019
01:34:36,671 --> 01:34:38,431
I heard this stuff
like a day ago
2020
01:34:38,431 --> 01:34:41,158
and I need to record
all eight songs.
2021
01:34:41,158 --> 01:34:43,712
So he says well Shannon
will help you out.
2022
01:34:43,712 --> 01:34:44,989
Okay.
2023
01:34:44,989 --> 01:34:47,889
- It happened fairly fast.
2024
01:34:47,889 --> 01:34:49,822
By the time we
finished the album
2025
01:34:52,687 --> 01:34:55,241
he was already in New York
2026
01:34:55,241 --> 01:34:57,864
when Steve flew here
and I was showing Steve
2027
01:34:57,864 --> 01:34:59,832
all of the songs and
we went over there
2028
01:34:59,832 --> 01:35:01,281
to do his bass tracks.
2029
01:35:02,697 --> 01:35:05,389
At that point Chuck was
actually in New York at NYU
2030
01:35:06,286 --> 01:35:07,563
being operated on.
2031
01:35:12,292 --> 01:35:17,297
♪ Painting pictures of
what we would like to see ♪
2032
01:35:26,548 --> 01:35:30,863
♪ The vision is
taking judge of him ♪
2033
01:35:35,833 --> 01:35:38,111
- Me and Jim, we would
take a couple minute break
2034
01:35:38,111 --> 01:35:39,216
from playing, we'd sit
there and we'd just
2035
01:35:39,216 --> 01:35:40,562
go this is unbelievable.
2036
01:35:40,562 --> 01:35:43,220
We had his number where
he was staying up there
2037
01:35:43,220 --> 01:35:45,809
and we talked to him
several times every day
2038
01:35:45,809 --> 01:35:47,569
and played him parts of songs
2039
01:35:47,569 --> 01:35:49,191
for him to kind of approve
2040
01:35:49,191 --> 01:35:50,814
and make sure we were
on the right track
2041
01:35:50,814 --> 01:35:52,988
and so we called
him on the phone
2042
01:35:52,988 --> 01:35:56,233
and held the phone up
to the studio monitor
2043
01:35:56,233 --> 01:35:57,475
and just let the song roll
2044
01:35:57,475 --> 01:35:59,098
and me and Jim were
looking at each other
2045
01:35:59,098 --> 01:36:01,686
like kind of remembering
how we finished up laughing,
2046
01:36:01,686 --> 01:36:04,413
like it's cool, remember,
ah, remember that?
2047
01:36:04,413 --> 01:36:07,037
And so after the song's
over go to the phone
2048
01:36:07,037 --> 01:36:11,006
and Florida to New York,
a little bit long distance
2049
01:36:11,006 --> 01:36:12,214
so I hear this
[mimicking crackling].
2050
01:36:14,078 --> 01:36:15,321
I thought we lost the connection
2051
01:36:15,321 --> 01:36:16,978
'cause I had held the
phone for the whole four
2052
01:36:16,978 --> 01:36:19,152
or five minutes,
however long the song is
2053
01:36:19,152 --> 01:36:21,051
so maybe at some
point we got cut off.
2054
01:36:22,086 --> 01:36:23,191
Chuck, are you there?
2055
01:36:24,399 --> 01:36:27,160
And I here this kind
of choked up voice.
2056
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:27,989
Yeah, I'm here.
2057
01:36:29,093 --> 01:36:30,232
What happened?
2058
01:36:30,232 --> 01:36:32,234
Nothing, I was
listening to the song.
2059
01:36:32,234 --> 01:36:33,684
I said oh, you
didn't say nothing.
2060
01:36:33,684 --> 01:36:35,237
I thought you left off.
2061
01:36:35,237 --> 01:36:37,619
He goes, then I could hear him.
2062
01:36:37,619 --> 01:36:40,001
It sounded kind of like he
was sobbing a little bit.
2063
01:36:40,001 --> 01:36:41,692
What's the matter, man?
2064
01:36:41,692 --> 01:36:42,797
He goes that was the
best get well card
2065
01:36:42,797 --> 01:36:44,281
I've ever heard in my life.
2066
01:36:44,281 --> 01:36:46,801
And I just, right then give
the phone right to Jim.
2067
01:36:46,801 --> 01:36:47,940
I was like I'm out.
2068
01:36:48,975 --> 01:36:51,529
I had to just compose myself
2069
01:36:51,529 --> 01:36:52,668
'cause he was up there.
2070
01:36:53,808 --> 01:36:55,499
He's used to being
part of the session
2071
01:36:55,499 --> 01:36:57,018
and I told him,
I said first time
2072
01:36:57,018 --> 01:36:58,709
in my life I've
ever been in Florida
2073
01:36:58,709 --> 01:37:00,849
without him there,
the first time,
2074
01:37:00,849 --> 01:37:03,093
and not only was
I just in Florida
2075
01:37:03,093 --> 01:37:04,508
but I was working on his record
2076
01:37:04,508 --> 01:37:06,717
and he wasn't there
like he always is
2077
01:37:06,717 --> 01:37:09,030
and to hear him react
like that, I was just ...
2078
01:37:10,203 --> 01:37:11,722
♪ When it's all said and done
2079
01:37:11,722 --> 01:37:15,795
♪ What is left to really say
2080
01:37:15,795 --> 01:37:20,800
♪ To be one turns to none
now we are just yesterday ♪
2081
01:37:37,230 --> 01:37:38,887
- I just felt terrible.
2082
01:37:38,887 --> 01:37:41,027
This is my friend
that's in trouble,
2083
01:37:41,027 --> 01:37:43,788
really bad trouble,
and it's getting worse
2084
01:37:43,788 --> 01:37:45,860
and I really would
like him to know,
2085
01:37:48,414 --> 01:37:49,208
I'm sorry.
2086
01:37:52,211 --> 01:37:53,729
I would really like him to know
2087
01:37:53,729 --> 01:37:55,904
how important he was
to me as a human being.
2088
01:38:06,432 --> 01:38:09,193
- It was weird because
he just always assured us
2089
01:38:09,193 --> 01:38:11,057
that even though something scary
2090
01:38:11,057 --> 01:38:12,334
and serious was going on,
2091
01:38:12,334 --> 01:38:13,611
he always kind of
had this assurance
2092
01:38:13,611 --> 01:38:16,166
that it was okay, he was
gonna go get it treated.
2093
01:38:16,166 --> 01:38:18,996
- And he actually did start
getting better after that
2094
01:38:18,996 --> 01:38:20,515
and that's when
we started working
2095
01:38:20,515 --> 01:38:24,277
on this follow,
the second record.
2096
01:38:25,761 --> 01:38:29,075
- So much time had gone by
from the recording of it,
2097
01:38:29,075 --> 01:38:31,906
the patching of the
bass tracks and all that
2098
01:38:31,906 --> 01:38:34,632
that he was busy
writing and he was ready
2099
01:38:34,632 --> 01:38:36,289
for the next album right away
2100
01:38:36,289 --> 01:38:39,189
'cause I had recorded
bass in the middle of 99
2101
01:38:39,189 --> 01:38:44,159
and by the next year, he
had all kinds of new stuff
2102
01:38:44,159 --> 01:38:47,507
and he was working on
it extensively with
Richard Christie.
2103
01:38:47,507 --> 01:38:50,994
- I remember
rehearsing and Chuck
2104
01:38:50,994 --> 01:38:53,203
writing the second
Control Denied album
2105
01:38:53,203 --> 01:38:57,517
and I just remember
us being so excited
2106
01:38:57,517 --> 01:38:59,830
for this second album and Chuck
2107
01:38:59,830 --> 01:39:01,107
was so proud of the music.
2108
01:39:01,107 --> 01:39:02,522
We were so well-rehearsed.
2109
01:39:02,522 --> 01:39:05,456
I went in there and we
did the drums in one day
2110
01:39:06,561 --> 01:39:09,564
and I remember Jim
Morris too looking at me
2111
01:39:09,564 --> 01:39:13,292
and looking at Chuck and he
was like what's going on here?
2112
01:39:13,292 --> 01:39:17,468
He was like, it was such
crazy, unique, innovative music
2113
01:39:17,468 --> 01:39:20,955
that Jim Morris just didn't
know what to think of it.
2114
01:39:22,094 --> 01:39:25,235
- And all of a sudden
it hit him again.
2115
01:39:28,238 --> 01:39:33,070
With this album, When
Man and Machine Collide,
2116
01:39:33,070 --> 01:39:35,900
he had taken home
those for that reason.
2117
01:39:35,900 --> 01:39:38,800
He had taken home
Richard's drum tracks
2118
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:42,217
and put 'em on a
little eight track
2119
01:39:42,217 --> 01:39:45,151
digital hard disc
recorder so that he
2120
01:39:45,151 --> 01:39:46,635
could work on it at
home and he wouldn't
2121
01:39:46,635 --> 01:39:48,223
be sitting there at Morris Sound
2122
01:39:48,223 --> 01:39:50,363
where time is money.
2123
01:39:50,363 --> 01:39:53,194
Of course that's
what led to us having
2124
01:39:53,194 --> 01:39:55,265
to extract all this
stuff from that machine
2125
01:39:55,265 --> 01:39:57,336
and all the other issues
we've run into since
2126
01:39:57,336 --> 01:39:59,994
but that was the primary reason
2127
01:39:59,994 --> 01:40:04,999
is because he knew that
he didn't have the stamina
2128
01:40:06,207 --> 01:40:08,864
or the endurance to play
through the whole thing
2129
01:40:08,864 --> 01:40:10,521
and do it in a timely fashion
2130
01:40:10,521 --> 01:40:12,661
so he just wanted
to bring it home.
2131
01:40:12,661 --> 01:40:15,699
- There's a possibility
of finishing an album.
2132
01:40:17,114 --> 01:40:19,841
The amount of work that
would have to go into it
2133
01:40:19,841 --> 01:40:23,155
is tremendous to do it right
2134
01:40:24,294 --> 01:40:26,779
which is what Chuck
told me had to be done.
2135
01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:30,369
My last conversation
on the phone with Chuck
2136
01:40:31,577 --> 01:40:33,786
was I want you to
finish the record
2137
01:40:33,786 --> 01:40:37,065
if you can but don't fuck it up.
2138
01:40:37,065 --> 01:40:39,033
If you can't do a
good job don't do it.
2139
01:40:48,456 --> 01:40:53,288
- So at that point,
I don't think we ever
2140
01:40:53,288 --> 01:40:54,979
really came close.
2141
01:40:54,979 --> 01:40:57,775
There was a brief
moment where we
2142
01:40:57,775 --> 01:40:59,329
had considered going to Italy
2143
01:40:59,329 --> 01:41:01,020
and opening up for Metallica
2144
01:41:01,020 --> 01:41:02,504
at the God's of Rock Festival
2145
01:41:02,504 --> 01:41:03,747
which would have
been the biggest show
2146
01:41:03,747 --> 01:41:06,784
that Death had
ever done and Chuck
2147
01:41:06,784 --> 01:41:10,236
literally waited until
about the last week
2148
01:41:10,236 --> 01:41:13,377
before canceling to
see if he could do it
2149
01:41:13,377 --> 01:41:15,759
'cause he was having
problems with his left arm.
2150
01:41:15,759 --> 01:41:18,417
His whole left side was just,
2151
01:41:19,590 --> 01:41:22,110
he had no control
of his motor skills
2152
01:41:22,110 --> 01:41:24,354
so he couldn't
really count on it
2153
01:41:24,354 --> 01:41:29,359
and we rehearsed quite a
bit to strengthen him up
2154
01:41:30,843 --> 01:41:32,396
but he would have good days
and he would have bad days.
2155
01:41:35,813 --> 01:41:38,126
- Chuck's a fighter and Chuck
2156
01:41:38,126 --> 01:41:40,577
had a really positive
attitude about it.
2157
01:41:41,957 --> 01:41:43,373
I can't imagine how scary it is
2158
01:41:43,373 --> 01:41:45,064
to go through
something like that
2159
01:41:46,238 --> 01:41:48,654
and Chuck has the
greatest family
2160
01:41:48,654 --> 01:41:50,207
that anybody could ever ask for.
2161
01:41:50,207 --> 01:41:52,382
They were always there with him
2162
01:41:52,382 --> 01:41:55,005
and encouraging him and
they were like you know,
2163
01:41:55,005 --> 01:41:56,972
we're gonna do
whatever it takes.
2164
01:41:57,939 --> 01:41:59,389
- I was constantly on the phone
2165
01:41:59,389 --> 01:42:00,942
trying to find new doctors
and we would travel
2166
01:42:00,942 --> 01:42:03,117
and when one doctor
would say no,
2167
01:42:03,117 --> 01:42:05,498
we don't have anything,
that just meant to me
2168
01:42:05,498 --> 01:42:07,845
that they didn't
know what to do.
2169
01:42:07,845 --> 01:42:09,295
There must be somebody.
2170
01:42:09,295 --> 01:42:10,641
In my mind there
had to be somebody
2171
01:42:10,641 --> 01:42:12,298
that knew what to do and Chuck
2172
01:42:12,298 --> 01:42:14,611
told me I feel like I'm standing
2173
01:42:14,611 --> 01:42:17,441
at the edge of a cliff
with one foot off
2174
01:42:19,133 --> 01:42:20,824
and when he said
that to me I knew
2175
01:42:20,824 --> 01:42:22,826
we just have to try everything.
2176
01:42:29,212 --> 01:42:32,042
- I ended up calling him.
2177
01:42:32,042 --> 01:42:33,561
He was already like really sick
2178
01:42:35,010 --> 01:42:39,429
and so I called him up on
the phone just to say hi
2179
01:42:40,499 --> 01:42:41,776
and he sounded
terrible on the phone.
2180
01:42:41,776 --> 01:42:43,018
It was really kind
of heart breaking
2181
01:42:43,018 --> 01:42:44,330
but we talked for
a couple minutes
2182
01:42:44,330 --> 01:42:45,745
and that was about
all he could do
2183
01:42:45,745 --> 01:42:47,920
'cause he was really
pretty zonked out
2184
01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:50,336
with everything
that was going on
2185
01:42:50,336 --> 01:42:51,544
and I remember telling
him for some reason
2186
01:42:51,544 --> 01:42:53,270
about the new Voivod album.
2187
01:42:53,270 --> 01:42:54,927
I'm like dude, you've
gotta hear the new Voivod.
2188
01:42:54,927 --> 01:42:55,755
It's insane.
2189
01:42:55,755 --> 01:42:57,171
He's like oh yeah, cool.
2190
01:43:00,381 --> 01:43:01,865
Yeah.
2191
01:43:01,865 --> 01:43:04,454
We did have this thing
from Make Them Die Slowly
2192
01:43:04,454 --> 01:43:08,803
where one of the
cannibals goes [mumbling]
2193
01:43:08,803 --> 01:43:09,907
and the other one
goes [mumbling]
2194
01:43:09,907 --> 01:43:11,115
and so we got one of those in
2195
01:43:11,115 --> 01:43:12,358
in that last conversation.
2196
01:43:12,358 --> 01:43:14,326
It was kind of a weak [mumbling]
2197
01:43:14,326 --> 01:43:15,672
but he still did it.
2198
01:43:15,672 --> 01:43:17,018
I was like alright,
that's cool man.
2199
01:43:17,018 --> 01:43:18,847
And that was the
last time we talked.
2200
01:43:21,229 --> 01:43:23,611
- And they did one
more hail Mary pass
2201
01:43:25,026 --> 01:43:29,272
and that was there was a drug
2202
01:43:29,272 --> 01:43:31,446
and it was still at
an experimental stage
2203
01:43:31,446 --> 01:43:33,862
and they really didn't know
about dosing at the time
2204
01:43:33,862 --> 01:43:37,970
and they agreed to take the risk
2205
01:43:37,970 --> 01:43:40,524
as a last ditch effort
to save his life.
2206
01:43:42,630 --> 01:43:44,218
- So when we got back to Florida
2207
01:43:45,667 --> 01:43:47,221
he could barely walk and we
went right into a hospital
2208
01:43:47,221 --> 01:43:49,223
and then I showed him the
pretty little pamphlet
2209
01:43:49,223 --> 01:43:50,879
they gave me with the
pretty flower on it
2210
01:43:50,879 --> 01:43:53,227
and they were like
oh god, it's a child.
2211
01:43:55,539 --> 01:43:59,474
♪ The fragile art of existence
2212
01:44:13,799 --> 01:44:16,974
- Nobody could blame anybody
because at that point
2213
01:44:16,974 --> 01:44:18,286
working with this
drug was really
2214
01:44:18,286 --> 01:44:23,291
the only possibility,
as remote as it was
2215
01:44:24,982 --> 01:44:29,987
and I think that when they
knew that it was over,
2216
01:44:31,126 --> 01:44:32,818
I think they decided
to take him home
2217
01:44:34,475 --> 01:44:36,270
and they took him back to Citrus
2218
01:44:37,754 --> 01:44:40,550
and he passed away
within an hour
2219
01:44:40,550 --> 01:44:42,586
of being at home.
2220
01:44:58,568 --> 01:45:03,504
♪ What should have been,
what should have been ♪
2221
01:45:33,188 --> 01:45:34,776
- That band was just,
as far as I'm concerned,
2222
01:45:34,776 --> 01:45:36,916
was responsible for expanding,
2223
01:45:36,916 --> 01:45:40,403
breaking out of that closed box
2224
01:45:40,403 --> 01:45:42,025
'cause death metal
had to be, again,
2225
01:45:42,025 --> 01:45:43,682
had to be brutal all the time
2226
01:45:43,682 --> 01:45:46,719
and I think Chuck is largely
responsible for that,
2227
01:45:46,719 --> 01:45:49,826
of having the balls to
want to do something
2228
01:45:49,826 --> 01:45:51,862
that he wanted to
do and not conform
2229
01:45:51,862 --> 01:45:53,761
to whatever everybody
else thought he should be,
2230
01:45:53,761 --> 01:45:55,038
you know what I mean?
2231
01:45:55,038 --> 01:45:58,110
And that is a testament
to a true musician
2232
01:45:58,110 --> 01:46:01,078
and somebody who
follows his own path
2233
01:46:01,078 --> 01:46:03,909
and not caters to what
he thinks other people
2234
01:46:03,909 --> 01:46:06,083
should think Death should be
2235
01:46:06,083 --> 01:46:08,776
or you should be like this
or you should play, you know.
2236
01:46:08,776 --> 01:46:10,433
- And somewhere there's
a lesson in there
2237
01:46:10,433 --> 01:46:11,365
for all of us.
2238
01:46:11,365 --> 01:46:12,745
Keep wanting to do better
2239
01:46:12,745 --> 01:46:14,575
because you never
know when you're not
2240
01:46:14,575 --> 01:46:17,267
gonna have a chance to do
anything else ever again.
2241
01:46:17,267 --> 01:46:19,925
He is a great example of growth.
2242
01:46:19,925 --> 01:46:23,411
If you wanna know the guy,
listen to the guitar playing
2243
01:46:24,792 --> 01:46:26,380
'cause that's him talking
to you right there.
2244
01:46:26,380 --> 01:46:27,933
That was the guy.
2245
01:46:27,933 --> 01:46:29,762
To me, the best musicians
I've worked with
2246
01:46:29,762 --> 01:46:32,489
are the ones where you
hear them in the notes.
2247
01:46:32,489 --> 01:46:34,595
You hear them and I think that's
2248
01:46:34,595 --> 01:46:36,976
where you get the real
personality of the player.
2249
01:46:38,806 --> 01:46:40,497
[death metal music]
2250
01:46:40,497 --> 01:46:45,502
♪ When you think of me in
your multidimensional mind ♪
2251
01:46:51,853 --> 01:46:56,858
♪ Try and wash the evil
from your mind and open it ♪
2252
01:47:04,832 --> 01:47:07,317
♪ When you taste the truth
2253
01:47:07,317 --> 01:47:10,976
♪ You will see like
others before me to you ♪
2254
01:47:10,976 --> 01:47:15,981
♪ I am past, a story to tell
2255
01:47:17,361 --> 01:47:20,503
♪ You will see like
others before me to you ♪
2256
01:47:20,503 --> 01:47:24,541
♪ I am now past
2257
01:47:24,541 --> 01:47:26,888
♪ I am past
2258
01:47:33,654 --> 01:47:35,966
- Look, if you
like certain styles
2259
01:47:35,966 --> 01:47:37,623
of death metal or
if you're partial
2260
01:47:37,623 --> 01:47:39,211
to the early brutal
stuff and you don't
2261
01:47:39,211 --> 01:47:43,008
really care about
progressive stuff, fine,
2262
01:47:43,008 --> 01:47:46,598
but to say Death wasn't
a death metal band
2263
01:47:46,598 --> 01:47:48,185
up until the end is just silly.
167244
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