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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:17,016 --> 00:00:20,510 It began, of course, 2 00:00:20,954 --> 00:00:23,321 with my father's friendship with Roché, 3 00:00:23,623 --> 00:00:28,585 and my mother came info the middle of it, so fo speak. 4 00:00:30,163 --> 00:00:32,689 If we look at it from my mother's point of view, 5 00:00:32,899 --> 00:00:42,604 first, she loved Hessel very much 6 00:00:42,808 --> 00:00:45,368 because he was who he was. 7 00:00:45,579 --> 00:00:49,846 That is, so friendly and loving, 8 00:00:51,084 --> 00:00:55,146 and also very understanding, 9 00:00:56,023 --> 00:01:00,926 because, after all, she was a German woman 10 00:01:01,128 --> 00:01:05,963 who had come to Paris before the war — 11 00:01:06,599 --> 00:01:08,796 World War I, that is — 12 00:01:09,168 --> 00:01:13,197 and she wasn't always comfortable 13 00:01:13,472 --> 00:01:16,567 at the Café du Déme, 14 00:01:17,010 --> 00:01:20,605 Just like my father. 15 00:01:20,813 --> 00:01:24,546 But the influence he had on her 16 00:01:24,850 --> 00:01:30,254 was most profound in their early years together. 17 00:01:30,557 --> 00:01:34,391 He was her mentor in all things cultural. 18 00:01:34,727 --> 00:01:39,722 She wasn't a very sophisticated young girl when she met him, 19 00:01:40,066 --> 00:01:44,504 and that always remained very important to her. 20 00:01:44,704 --> 00:01:47,140 That was the good part, 21 00:01:47,340 --> 00:01:50,537 but when she later realized... 22 00:01:52,813 --> 00:02:01,311 that he didn't love her precisely the way she wanted... 23 00:02:03,557 --> 00:02:09,894 she reacted in that feminine way 24 00:02:10,097 --> 00:02:14,693 and dropped him for Roché, 25 00:02:15,134 --> 00:02:20,073 who said just the right things 26 00:02:20,272 --> 00:02:24,766 to please her. 27 00:02:27,580 --> 00:02:31,484 She dropped my father for Roché. 28 00:02:31,685 --> 00:02:35,985 My mother had hoped to find in Pierre 29 00:02:36,188 --> 00:02:38,055 what she had failed to find with Franz, 30 00:02:38,258 --> 00:02:41,853 but she may not have quite found it with him either. 31 00:02:47,933 --> 00:02:50,096 She had sex appeal. 32 00:02:50,437 --> 00:02:52,098 There's no doubt about it. 33 00:02:52,372 --> 00:02:55,534 You can see it in the pictures. She was very sexy. 34 00:02:57,677 --> 00:03:01,443 Otherwise things wouldn't have happened as they did. 35 00:03:01,882 --> 00:03:05,375 You can see that in the pictures. I was totally amazed. 36 00:03:05,818 --> 00:03:08,550 The picture I took of her isn't half bad. 37 00:03:08,754 --> 00:03:11,189 You can see the character of the person, 38 00:03:11,858 --> 00:03:13,656 though you see nothing but an eye and a chic hat. 39 00:03:13,894 --> 00:03:16,727 It could still pass foday for a modern phofograph. 40 00:03:17,030 --> 00:03:19,157 It's obvious that this is a very elegant woman. 41 00:03:20,500 --> 00:03:22,695 She must have been very beautiful in her youth. 42 00:03:23,135 --> 00:03:27,038 I think that the erofic was very important fo her. 43 00:03:27,373 --> 00:03:29,866 It was the center of her life. 44 00:03:30,143 --> 00:03:31,337 She was very charming 45 00:03:32,479 --> 00:03:33,947 and extremely smart. 46 00:03:36,383 --> 00:03:39,353 1 took a picture of her with her two sons. 47 00:03:57,937 --> 00:04:00,338 Yes, that's a beautiful picture. 48 00:04:05,544 --> 00:04:07,377 This may have been sometime... 49 00:04:08,914 --> 00:04:13,250 around 1938-40, I think. 50 00:04:19,625 --> 00:04:23,221 Quite typical. Really pretty. 51 00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:26,865 And she's wearing that beautiful necklace 52 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,036 that's been passed down in the family. 53 00:04:31,036 --> 00:04:34,995 She was very beautiful. 54 00:04:36,776 --> 00:04:41,714 It was exquisite how she wore her long blonde hair... 55 00:04:42,581 --> 00:04:46,279 that reached all the way down to here 56 00:04:47,454 --> 00:04:50,980 in the late 1920s. 57 00:04:51,257 --> 00:04:54,557 And she had a striking personality. 58 00:04:54,761 --> 00:04:59,596 Of course, as a child and even as a young man, 59 00:05:00,166 --> 00:05:02,134 I was very much in love with my mother. 60 00:05:02,334 --> 00:05:07,329 So I will of course depict her as a very beautiful woman, 61 00:05:07,641 --> 00:05:11,702 which might not have been so evident to others. 62 00:05:12,112 --> 00:05:13,807 She was very blonde. 63 00:05:14,014 --> 00:05:18,076 She had that light blonde coloring 64 00:05:18,451 --> 00:05:21,079 that children especially love, 65 00:05:21,288 --> 00:05:26,418 blue eyes and a slim figure. 66 00:05:26,625 --> 00:05:32,086 I met Mrs. Hessel in 1936... 67 00:05:34,634 --> 00:05:36,795 after she had written... 68 00:05:37,002 --> 00:05:39,995 a very interesting essay on fashion. 69 00:05:41,274 --> 00:05:45,302 As far as I remember, she represented a large women's magazine. 70 00:05:47,379 --> 00:05:49,576 She was an extraordinarily charming woman. 71 00:05:52,451 --> 00:05:57,548 She had a limp from a horseback riding accident in which she broke her foot. 72 00:05:57,923 --> 00:06:01,553 She was among the first to drive a car here. 73 00:06:01,927 --> 00:06:04,555 In those days there were very few cars in Paris. 74 00:06:05,264 --> 00:06:11,637 She was very chic and elegant and knew exactly what she wanted. 75 00:06:11,838 --> 00:06:15,637 Whatever suited her was important. 76 00:06:15,841 --> 00:06:20,939 She didn't care too much whether other people went along. 77 00:06:21,814 --> 00:06:26,377 Also, she didn't necessarily treat very fairly 78 00:06:26,586 --> 00:06:32,958 the men who were in love with her. 79 00:06:33,225 --> 00:06:36,627 One could have held all kinds of things against her. 80 00:06:36,829 --> 00:06:41,062 But no one did, because she was very charming 81 00:06:41,267 --> 00:06:45,067 and very attractive and expressed herself extremely well. 82 00:06:45,271 --> 00:06:49,869 She was a very liberated women, all her life. 83 00:06:50,076 --> 00:06:52,339 I don't think she had any kind of prejudice. 84 00:06:52,745 --> 00:06:56,807 First, she was married to a Jew, 85 00:06:57,117 --> 00:06:59,517 and she came from an officer's family. 86 00:07:00,086 --> 00:07:05,581 Secondly, in Paris she was friendly with the avant-garde, 87 00:07:05,791 --> 00:07:09,319 so she was by no means bourgeois, as we would say, 88 00:07:09,596 --> 00:07:14,591 yet she was someone with the best breeding. 89 00:07:14,834 --> 00:07:19,100 She was extremely cultured and knew how to behave. 90 00:07:19,305 --> 00:07:22,331 La grande dame, as we would say in France. 91 00:07:22,541 --> 00:07:23,702 C'était une grande dame. 92 00:07:23,910 --> 00:07:27,369 We usually met at a café in Montparnasse, 93 00:07:27,613 --> 00:07:31,072 which in those days was the center of art and literature, 94 00:07:31,685 --> 00:07:33,278 before Saint Germain des Prés. 95 00:07:33,485 --> 00:07:37,889 One day she gave me a journal she'd been keeping, 96 00:07:39,158 --> 00:07:42,151 and it contained pretty much the whole story of Jules and Jim. 97 00:07:47,166 --> 00:07:50,398 I think that Helen Hessel... 98 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:59,973 was very interested in human relationships... 99 00:08:03,415 --> 00:08:06,214 and in love, in a general sense. 100 00:08:06,552 --> 00:08:10,512 And this love of hers captured in Jules and Jim 101 00:08:10,790 --> 00:08:12,656 was based on real experience. 102 00:08:12,858 --> 00:08:14,690 She had a long life. 103 00:08:14,894 --> 00:08:18,454 She outlived her husband by so many, many years, 104 00:08:18,665 --> 00:08:20,928 and Roché likewise, by many years. 105 00:08:21,134 --> 00:08:25,071 You could discuss much that happened to her in later years... 106 00:08:25,271 --> 00:08:29,002 when she became a translator and translated Lo/jfa. 107 00:08:29,274 --> 00:08:33,677 That was an incredible thing for a woman over 70, 108 00:08:33,980 --> 00:08:37,381 to translate this particularly strange novel. 109 00:08:37,583 --> 00:08:39,916 I met her only once very briefly. 110 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,386 I think she may have paid a short visit to the publishing house. 111 00:08:44,591 --> 00:08:49,756 She was a very old lady then, well advanced in years. 112 00:08:52,231 --> 00:08:57,135 To help her, I entrusted her with the translation 113 00:08:57,336 --> 00:09:00,067 of Nabokov's Lolita. 114 00:09:00,539 --> 00:09:04,169 But it turned out — she completed the translation — 115 00:09:04,443 --> 00:09:08,244 that she wasn't quite able to do justice to the special, 116 00:09:09,948 --> 00:09:14,784 capricious, and occasionally even — 117 00:09:16,056 --> 00:09:17,649 how shall I say? — 118 00:09:18,991 --> 00:09:22,826 demonic element in Nabokov. 119 00:09:23,028 --> 00:09:26,726 Nor was she able to come to terms with his new vision. 120 00:09:28,067 --> 00:09:29,592 She was too conservative. 121 00:09:30,202 --> 00:09:37,370 After Jules and Jim was made into a movie, I visited her. 122 00:09:37,976 --> 00:09:41,173 She was over 90 at the time, I think. 123 00:09:41,380 --> 00:09:44,407 She asked if I recognized what it was based on. 124 00:09:44,616 --> 00:09:49,076 I said, “Yes, many years ago you showed me your journal.” 125 00:09:50,222 --> 00:09:51,280 That was the story. 126 00:09:51,724 --> 00:09:55,922 She was a tyrant, but toward her children, for example, 127 00:09:56,663 --> 00:09:58,653 she was mostly very gentle. 128 00:09:59,164 --> 00:10:01,394 She was a very gentle mother 129 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,571 who would always hold us close to her heart. 130 00:10:04,837 --> 00:10:10,902 The only difference between my parents was 131 00:10:11,244 --> 00:10:15,306 that I felt more admiration for my mother 132 00:10:15,514 --> 00:10:17,745 and more frust for my father. 133 00:10:23,755 --> 00:10:29,956 Both our parents were almost mythological figures to us. 134 00:10:30,163 --> 00:10:35,863 He was the great writer and the great translator. 135 00:10:36,101 --> 00:10:43,065 We greatly admired his command of German and French. 136 00:10:43,610 --> 00:10:46,544 That's when we were in Hohenschaftiarn, 137 00:10:46,745 --> 00:10:48,235 near Munich. 138 00:10:48,447 --> 00:10:51,315 It was a wonderful time. 139 00:10:52,085 --> 00:10:58,115 I remember we were all living 140 00:10:58,658 --> 00:11:02,025 together in a house 141 00:11:03,129 --> 00:11:06,326 situated af the fop of a small hill. 142 00:11:06,533 --> 00:11:09,866 I remember that we even went fo school there. 143 00:11:10,202 --> 00:11:17,166 Koch would sunbathe in a meadow, 144 00:11:17,376 --> 00:11:20,711 and Roché would skip stones on the lake. 145 00:11:20,913 --> 00:11:28,582 And there was a balcony, and a country road foo. 146 00:11:28,922 --> 00:11:31,913 And there was this free 147 00:11:32,125 --> 00:11:39,121 that to me was like paradise. 148 00:11:39,331 --> 00:11:42,825 The first image of my father that emerges 149 00:11:43,035 --> 00:11:45,801 from when I was a small child 150 00:11:46,004 --> 00:11:49,668 was that he had such a beautiful round head. 151 00:11:49,975 --> 00:11:51,875 My brother and I loved him very much 152 00:11:52,110 --> 00:11:57,674 as some kind of benign moon spirit. 153 00:11:57,884 --> 00:12:03,913 I could say that I resemble him very much physically. 154 00:12:04,123 --> 00:12:06,182 He looked like a man of letters. 155 00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:11,352 He never paid much attention to clothes, 156 00:12:11,563 --> 00:12:15,966 but he was always quite neat and good-looking. 157 00:12:17,135 --> 00:12:19,331 He wasn't very tall in stature, 158 00:12:19,806 --> 00:12:24,140 and this very formidable-looking head 159 00:12:24,610 --> 00:12:27,409 had a fouch of Asian features. 160 00:12:28,214 --> 00:12:32,378 He was always in his little room, in his study, 161 00:12:32,652 --> 00:12:36,178 which smelled very much of cigarette smoke, 162 00:12:36,489 --> 00:12:38,355 which we especially loved. 163 00:12:38,557 --> 00:12:41,653 He'd take us in his arms and tell us stories 164 00:12:41,894 --> 00:12:45,421 from The liad or The Odyssey. 165 00:12:45,631 --> 00:12:49,796 When he would help me with homework, 166 00:12:50,003 --> 00:12:52,370 that is, Latin or Greek, 167 00:12:53,806 --> 00:12:57,003 he was often strict, 168 00:12:57,210 --> 00:13:01,703 but almost against his will. 169 00:13:01,913 --> 00:13:04,008 I loved Hessel very much 170 00:13:04,583 --> 00:13:10,148 because he had such a gentle disposition. 171 00:13:10,889 --> 00:13:14,052 He was tolerant, lovable... 172 00:13:15,662 --> 00:13:20,326 always friendly, and a peacemaker whenever an argument erupted. 173 00:13:21,801 --> 00:13:27,034 I've never met another human being like him in my whole life. 174 00:13:27,472 --> 00:13:33,469 In terms of character, he's like me 175 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,206 inasmuch as he was — 176 00:13:38,684 --> 00:13:42,815 I don't exactly want to say a passive man. 177 00:13:43,523 --> 00:13:47,585 In his view it was better to undertake as little as possible 178 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:53,125 in order to fully understand whatever you did undertake 179 00:13:53,332 --> 00:13:55,164 and share it with others. 180 00:13:55,368 --> 00:13:57,359 Without exception they loved him, 181 00:13:57,602 --> 00:13:59,594 but of course they also laughed at him. 182 00:13:59,806 --> 00:14:01,740 I laughed at him myself. 183 00:14:02,442 --> 00:14:06,674 He drew a smile from you 184 00:14:07,613 --> 00:14:15,543 because his view of the world 185 00:14:16,154 --> 00:14:18,418 had a childlike quality 186 00:14:19,692 --> 00:14:24,288 that would unfortunately make us smile condescendingly on occasion. 187 00:14:24,496 --> 00:14:28,660 I think that as a young man 188 00:14:28,900 --> 00:14:31,370 he was very spoiled. 189 00:14:31,604 --> 00:14:38,100 He believed he could devote himself entirely to beauty and art. 190 00:14:38,344 --> 00:14:43,543 But then came WW I, and all those complicated times. 191 00:14:44,015 --> 00:14:49,216 Perhaps he didn't feel very confident 192 00:14:49,422 --> 00:14:55,918 as a man of action, 193 00:14:56,129 --> 00:15:01,567 but he felt very confident as a man of knowledge, 194 00:15:02,033 --> 00:15:08,336 a man who lovingly embraced all that the world brought his way. 195 00:15:09,041 --> 00:15:11,100 He was the son of a banker 196 00:15:11,309 --> 00:15:16,009 who lost his money during the Inflation. 197 00:15:16,215 --> 00:15:23,884 He led a life that allowed him to devote himself to his passions, 198 00:15:24,256 --> 00:15:27,921 to literature and the literary life. 199 00:15:29,428 --> 00:15:34,559 Then, affer the losses in the 1920s, 200 00:15:34,767 --> 00:15:37,259 he had fo become a book editor. 201 00:15:37,470 --> 00:15:38,835 He was also a wrifer, 202 00:15:39,038 --> 00:15:44,841 though his books were never successful enough fo earn him a living. 203 00:15:46,211 --> 00:15:51,308 But for many years he was my father's chief edifor 204 00:15:52,051 --> 00:15:56,113 and introduced him fo many German authors. 205 00:15:56,322 --> 00:15:59,256 Benjamin, whom [ve already mentioned, and Mascha Kaléko. 206 00:15:59,524 --> 00:16:04,086 And, of course, he also infroduced us fo French literature. 207 00:16:04,297 --> 00:16:09,962 He also frans/ated Proust, fogether with Walter Benjamin. 208 00:16:10,836 --> 00:16:13,966 He was also good friends with Mascha Kaléko, 209 00:16:14,173 --> 00:16:16,072 one of his platonic relationships. 210 00:16:16,274 --> 00:16:18,903 He was a great admirer of women, 211 00:16:19,144 --> 00:16:22,910 but without, I think, acting on it. 212 00:16:28,955 --> 00:16:31,447 I learned fairly late 213 00:16:31,657 --> 00:16:33,682 about Jules and Jim 214 00:16:33,926 --> 00:16:36,394 and that the lady in question 215 00:16:36,596 --> 00:16:40,191 was Helen Hessel 216 00:16:40,533 --> 00:16:43,467 and that Franz Hessel 217 00:16:44,035 --> 00:16:47,198 and the author Roché were the friends. 218 00:16:47,405 --> 00:16:51,535 Actually, I haven't read Jules and Jim. 219 00:16:52,511 --> 00:16:54,173 I saw the film first. 220 00:16:54,913 --> 00:16:58,214 He'd given me the book two years earlier. 221 00:16:58,417 --> 00:17:00,111 It had come out three years earlier. 222 00:17:00,485 --> 00:17:03,352 But I hadn't taken the time to read it. 223 00:17:03,556 --> 00:17:05,887 I saw the film first 224 00:17:06,092 --> 00:17:07,752 without having read the book, 225 00:17:08,193 --> 00:17:12,289 and I recognized the character of my father perfectly. 226 00:17:12,565 --> 00:17:17,401 But I recognized him not only in Jim, 227 00:17:17,836 --> 00:17:20,932 but in Jules as well, on a philosophical level. 228 00:17:21,140 --> 00:17:25,576 Jules' and Jim's philosophy of life was that of my father. 229 00:17:25,778 --> 00:17:27,472 My father wrote it as a dialogue, 230 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,377 but I found it more in Jim but also in Jules. 231 00:17:31,584 --> 00:17:35,213 He was a man with two lives. 232 00:17:36,321 --> 00:17:40,952 He had an exterior life, a worldly life. 233 00:17:41,192 --> 00:17:46,221 He saw lots of people in artistic circles, 234 00:17:46,432 --> 00:17:49,731 and he traveled to India and the United States. 235 00:17:50,903 --> 00:17:56,432 In this life he was regarded as quite exceptional in every way. 236 00:17:56,776 --> 00:18:00,541 He was extremely brilliant and friendly and kind, and so forth. 237 00:18:01,180 --> 00:18:04,172 Then he had another life as well, 238 00:18:04,784 --> 00:18:07,651 a life of contemplation and writing. 239 00:18:07,886 --> 00:18:10,480 He lived this life at home. 240 00:18:11,356 --> 00:18:17,261 In this life he wasn't very accessible to those around him. 241 00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:21,962 I don't think he gave much to his wife, 242 00:18:22,167 --> 00:18:24,796 and he gave very little to me, his son. 243 00:18:26,137 --> 00:18:29,506 There were moments of great camaraderie, 244 00:18:29,808 --> 00:18:33,369 but he never paid attention to me as a child or took me in his arms. 245 00:18:34,079 --> 00:18:39,450 He never really took the time to raise his child. 246 00:18:39,652 --> 00:18:43,680 Roché in Hohenschaftlarn 247 00:18:44,056 --> 00:18:52,055 was very pleasant as a friend. 248 00:18:52,263 --> 00:19:03,538 Once I saw my mother being carried, 249 00:19:03,742 --> 00:19:11,150 either in his arms, or perhaps it was Koch or Hessel. 250 00:19:13,519 --> 00:19:18,888 She was being carried around the room. 251 00:19:19,458 --> 00:19:26,887 She had that long, as yet uncropped blonde hair, 252 00:19:27,532 --> 00:19:29,865 and she was laughing at it all. 253 00:19:30,536 --> 00:19:34,165 That made a big impression on me. 254 00:19:34,373 --> 00:19:36,807 I always thought my parents were married. 255 00:19:37,009 --> 00:19:39,705 They never said a word to me about it. 256 00:19:40,546 --> 00:19:44,914 One day, when I was about 21 or 22, I was skiing, 257 00:19:45,651 --> 00:19:48,643 and I received a postcard that said, 258 00:19:48,854 --> 00:19:50,583 “We got married.” 259 00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:55,387 That's when I learned I was actually an illegitimate child 260 00:19:55,627 --> 00:19:59,189 and that I shouldn't even have been using my father's last name. 261 00:19:59,865 --> 00:20:03,596 He had bribed a clerk at city hall 262 00:20:03,803 --> 00:20:05,964 into adding Roché to my name, 263 00:20:06,172 --> 00:20:09,403 but technically I was a fatherless child. 264 00:20:09,808 --> 00:20:11,573 I never knew. 265 00:20:11,777 --> 00:20:15,974 I'd only noticed that he'd spend a week or two at the house, 266 00:20:16,882 --> 00:20:21,046 and then he'd leave for a month or two. 267 00:20:21,753 --> 00:20:25,019 I was small at the time, but I think he had other women, 268 00:20:25,223 --> 00:20:27,192 though I didn't know it. 269 00:20:27,425 --> 00:20:33,854 He was a very tall man, 270 00:20:34,066 --> 00:20:36,432 exceedingly tall, 271 00:20:36,634 --> 00:20:42,096 at least 64” — I don't know exactly. 272 00:20:46,077 --> 00:20:48,444 He was rather thin, foo. 273 00:20:48,646 --> 00:20:54,915 A very good-looking, 274 00:20:55,121 --> 00:20:57,419 tall young man. 275 00:20:58,324 --> 00:21:02,692 He was over six feef tall. 276 00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:08,962 He had a slim figure, a large nose, 277 00:21:09,567 --> 00:21:11,865 and an expression 278 00:21:12,137 --> 00:21:17,041 of great self-confidence. 279 00:21:17,242 --> 00:21:21,201 I only knew him in his later years, because he was 52 when I was born. 280 00:21:21,713 --> 00:21:24,740 So I grew up with a man who was 60 or 70 years old. 281 00:21:26,852 --> 00:21:29,480 He was tall but a bit stooped over. 282 00:21:29,821 --> 00:21:32,290 He had blonde hair and a triangular face. 283 00:21:32,490 --> 00:21:35,790 He looked very Anglo-Saxon. Everyone took him for English. 284 00:21:36,662 --> 00:21:39,632 And he'd been educated in a somewhat English fashion, 285 00:21:40,231 --> 00:21:43,759 a certain way of being discreet, of listening to others, 286 00:21:43,969 --> 00:21:46,096 of being measured in his speech. 287 00:21:46,305 --> 00:21:48,034 He was quite English. 288 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,605 He was athletic. 289 00:21:49,842 --> 00:21:55,246 He firmly believed 290 00:21:55,513 --> 00:21:59,108 that young boys must play sports. 291 00:21:59,317 --> 00:22:01,082 He wanted us to learn to box. 292 00:22:01,287 --> 00:22:04,518 We never did, but he himself was a boxer. 293 00:22:04,856 --> 00:22:08,087 He also wanted us to play tennis, which we did. 294 00:22:08,426 --> 00:22:12,989 He was always very athletic and lively, 295 00:22:13,199 --> 00:22:15,361 taking long walks and so on. 296 00:22:15,567 --> 00:22:19,027 So he was certainly a pleasant companion for children, 297 00:22:19,238 --> 00:22:25,143 but somewhat detached when it came to feelings. 298 00:22:26,178 --> 00:22:30,046 When he was 70 and I was 20, 299 00:22:30,249 --> 00:22:32,512 we'd play Ping-Pong together, 300 00:22:32,718 --> 00:22:34,584 and he could still beat me. 301 00:22:34,854 --> 00:22:36,981 He had a good eye and very good reflexes. 302 00:22:37,222 --> 00:22:41,217 He was very kind and charming 303 00:22:41,426 --> 00:22:45,329 and loved to joke around, 304 00:22:45,597 --> 00:22:52,060 and even to us children he was a representative of French culture. 305 00:22:52,304 --> 00:22:55,672 He knew all the big French names: 306 00:22:55,875 --> 00:22:58,708 Marcel Duchamps, André Breton, and so forth. 307 00:22:59,077 --> 00:23:02,877 So he was to us the transmitter 308 00:23:03,115 --> 00:23:06,016 of this culture that was still new fo us. 309 00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:09,381 In his room in Paris, 310 00:23:09,587 --> 00:23:13,182 and later in Sévres, my father had lots of paintings. 311 00:23:14,492 --> 00:23:17,554 But they were constantly changing, because he would sell them. 312 00:23:17,762 --> 00:23:21,324 Paintings by Picasso, Braque, Modigliani, 313 00:23:21,967 --> 00:23:25,732 as well as Chagall, Max Ernst and others. 314 00:23:26,404 --> 00:23:27,873 They were always changing, 315 00:23:28,106 --> 00:23:30,598 but two things never changed: 316 00:23:30,875 --> 00:23:36,007 a row of dolls from the Hopi tribe, North American Indians, 317 00:23:36,714 --> 00:23:39,115 which he later sold. 318 00:23:39,384 --> 00:23:41,580 And he had this behind his bed. 319 00:23:44,823 --> 00:23:49,920 So my mother was in Paris in the early years, 320 00:23:50,328 --> 00:23:53,263 when she was living with Roché, 321 00:23:53,464 --> 00:23:56,991 and my father would come on occasion. 322 00:23:57,303 --> 00:24:02,570 But the focus was on Roché and his friends. 323 00:24:02,875 --> 00:24:06,334 So she was surrounded 324 00:24:06,545 --> 00:24:10,606 by this group of people with whom she had a relationship, 325 00:24:10,816 --> 00:24:13,285 who were also my father's relationships. 326 00:24:13,685 --> 00:24:18,180 Later on, as a fashion journalist, 327 00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:21,290 she took us along fo her shows, 328 00:24:21,492 --> 00:24:23,551 and we saw all the pretty models. 329 00:24:23,796 --> 00:24:28,893 She was very busy at the time 330 00:24:29,101 --> 00:24:32,594 earning a living for us, 331 00:24:32,805 --> 00:24:35,775 because she was the family breadwinner. 332 00:24:35,974 --> 00:24:37,965 My father was self-employed 333 00:24:38,176 --> 00:24:41,009 but my mother — 334 00:24:41,413 --> 00:24:48,512 Because she had gone to Paris in 1925 335 00:24:48,721 --> 00:24:52,988 and had lived with Roché, 336 00:24:53,558 --> 00:24:58,258 and up until 1928, when she was with my father... 337 00:25:01,666 --> 00:25:05,933 she oversaw our education... 338 00:25:07,972 --> 00:25:10,169 more than my father did, 339 00:25:11,210 --> 00:25:14,544 who had withdrawn from this fask. 340 00:25:14,747 --> 00:25:17,682 She probably didn't get 341 00:25:17,915 --> 00:25:21,510 all that she might have wanted from Roché. 342 00:25:21,753 --> 00:25:27,590 She wanted to build a great love with him and have kids. 343 00:25:27,859 --> 00:25:30,260 As we know, that hope was dashed, 344 00:25:30,461 --> 00:25:34,329 so that she grew disappointed in him, 345 00:25:34,532 --> 00:25:38,799 although she had invested a lot in this passionate relationship. 346 00:25:39,104 --> 00:25:42,232 She felt much more passionately toward him 347 00:25:42,441 --> 00:25:47,674 than he probably felt toward her. 348 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,644 I think my father was very hard on women. 349 00:25:50,848 --> 00:25:55,012 He lived with three women, and he said, 350 00:25:55,653 --> 00:25:59,214 “I'll marry the one who survives the longest.” 351 00:26:00,192 --> 00:26:03,651 So if two were to die, he'd marry the third. 352 00:26:04,296 --> 00:26:06,355 I think all three suffered quite a bit. 353 00:26:06,565 --> 00:26:09,796 Each was quite aggressive towards the other two. 354 00:26:10,035 --> 00:26:13,005 But I never heard a word about anything at all. 355 00:26:13,271 --> 00:26:16,138 I can simply say that my mother was unhappy 356 00:26:16,541 --> 00:26:19,671 and that there were stormy times with my father, 357 00:26:19,877 --> 00:26:22,939 and they'd come to blows. Not a good couple at all. 358 00:26:23,147 --> 00:26:25,583 When I was in Berlin 359 00:26:25,851 --> 00:26:28,582 around 1934, 360 00:26:29,188 --> 00:26:32,088 when the break occurred 361 00:26:32,324 --> 00:26:40,323 between my mother and Roché, 362 00:26:40,898 --> 00:26:45,564 she wrote to my father that as far as she was concerned, 363 00:26:45,804 --> 00:26:54,211 the “false friend” no longer existed for her 364 00:26:54,445 --> 00:26:59,976 for this or that reason, and she explained why. 365 00:27:00,419 --> 00:27:07,654 And my father went obediently along with my mother 366 00:27:08,292 --> 00:27:16,701 and likewise broke off all contact with Roché. 367 00:27:17,469 --> 00:27:20,369 Of course, he was no match 368 00:27:20,905 --> 00:27:22,806 for the brutality that was rampant then. 369 00:27:23,008 --> 00:27:27,605 Actually, he was never really confronted with it. 370 00:27:29,114 --> 00:27:33,050 In the final years of the Nazis, when he was working for us, 371 00:27:33,251 --> 00:27:35,686 he lived a somewhat withdrawn life. 372 00:27:37,088 --> 00:27:39,615 But we stood by him. Certainly my father did, 373 00:27:39,924 --> 00:27:44,055 which remained under wraps for a while but later came out 374 00:27:44,262 --> 00:27:48,757 and led to a Nazi trial against my father 375 00:27:49,167 --> 00:27:52,569 for having employed Franz Hessel and Paul Meyer, 376 00:27:52,837 --> 00:27:57,332 both of whom were Jews. He was viciously attacked for it. 377 00:27:58,844 --> 00:28:05,750 But he must have felt some bitterness 378 00:28:05,951 --> 00:28:11,684 at suddenly finding himself a pariah. 379 00:28:11,923 --> 00:28:16,862 1 think if there had only been Jews like my father, 380 00:28:17,261 --> 00:28:20,424 fascism would have had an even easier time of it. 381 00:28:20,632 --> 00:28:23,259 You can make that criticism of him. 382 00:28:23,468 --> 00:28:28,667 He always spoke against the Nazis, of course, 383 00:28:28,874 --> 00:28:32,810 but he never saw the need 384 00:28:33,144 --> 00:28:37,240 fo join any kind of group fo fight them. 385 00:28:37,583 --> 00:28:39,414 He was against Hitler, of course, 386 00:28:39,651 --> 00:28:43,019 but in a “belles lettres” sort of way. 387 00:28:43,255 --> 00:28:47,192 He probably had no awareness of the great danger he was in. 388 00:28:47,392 --> 00:28:50,692 He could easily have come to a very bad end. 389 00:28:50,962 --> 00:28:55,230 And if my mother hadn't gone to Germany in 1938 390 00:28:55,467 --> 00:29:01,873 and almost forcefully taken him along, he'd probably have met a bad end. 391 00:29:02,074 --> 00:29:05,169 He didn't live this way for much longer, 392 00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:07,640 but at least he lived in freedom. 393 00:29:07,846 --> 00:29:10,247 My father had been in India, 394 00:29:10,715 --> 00:29:15,711 where he'd worked for the Maharaja of Indore. 395 00:29:16,355 --> 00:29:20,121 He saw how they cremated the dead there, 396 00:29:20,424 --> 00:29:22,757 and he thought it was a beautiful custom. 397 00:29:23,394 --> 00:29:26,160 I think he'd also read many works 398 00:29:26,365 --> 00:29:31,029 on Buddhism and religions of the Far East. 399 00:29:32,336 --> 00:29:34,634 He found cemeteries quite ugly. 400 00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:39,038 He didn't want his body cluttering up the earth 401 00:29:39,243 --> 00:29:41,769 or other people coming across his bones. 402 00:29:42,180 --> 00:29:45,740 It was a sense of purity. 403 00:29:46,984 --> 00:29:50,046 He wanted to cleanse the earth of his body. 404 00:29:51,556 --> 00:29:53,957 So he asked to be cremated, and so did my mother. 405 00:29:54,893 --> 00:29:59,228 He asked for the ashes to be placed in some beautiful spot. 406 00:29:59,597 --> 00:30:03,125 This is the spot, here at the foot of this tree. 407 00:30:04,536 --> 00:30:06,971 Here I am at my mother's grave. 408 00:30:07,338 --> 00:30:12,277 She died in 1982 in Paris. 409 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:21,176 My father died in 1941 in Sanary. 410 00:30:22,153 --> 00:30:28,923 My mother was 96 years old, while my father only lived to be 60. 411 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,490 A little over 60. 30690

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