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It began, of course,
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with my father's friendship
with Roché,
3
00:00:23,623 --> 00:00:28,585
and my mother came
info the middle of it, so fo speak.
4
00:00:30,163 --> 00:00:32,689
If we look at it
from my mother's point of view,
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00:00:32,899 --> 00:00:42,604
first, she loved Hessel very much
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00:00:42,808 --> 00:00:45,368
because he was who he was.
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00:00:45,579 --> 00:00:49,846
That is, so friendly and loving,
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00:00:51,084 --> 00:00:55,146
and also very understanding,
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00:00:56,023 --> 00:01:00,926
because, after all,
she was a German woman
10
00:01:01,128 --> 00:01:05,963
who had come to Paris before the war —
11
00:01:06,599 --> 00:01:08,796
World War I, that is —
12
00:01:09,168 --> 00:01:13,197
and she wasn't always comfortable
13
00:01:13,472 --> 00:01:16,567
at the Café du Déme,
14
00:01:17,010 --> 00:01:20,605
Just like my father.
15
00:01:20,813 --> 00:01:24,546
But the influence he had on her
16
00:01:24,850 --> 00:01:30,254
was most profound
in their early years together.
17
00:01:30,557 --> 00:01:34,391
He was her mentor
in all things cultural.
18
00:01:34,727 --> 00:01:39,722
She wasn't a very sophisticated
young girl when she met him,
19
00:01:40,066 --> 00:01:44,504
and that always remained
very important to her.
20
00:01:44,704 --> 00:01:47,140
That was the good part,
21
00:01:47,340 --> 00:01:50,537
but when she later realized...
22
00:01:52,813 --> 00:02:01,311
that he didn't love her
precisely the way she wanted...
23
00:02:03,557 --> 00:02:09,894
she reacted in that feminine way
24
00:02:10,097 --> 00:02:14,693
and dropped him for Roché,
25
00:02:15,134 --> 00:02:20,073
who said just the right things
26
00:02:20,272 --> 00:02:24,766
to please her.
27
00:02:27,580 --> 00:02:31,484
She dropped my father for Roché.
28
00:02:31,685 --> 00:02:35,985
My mother had hoped to find in Pierre
29
00:02:36,188 --> 00:02:38,055
what she had failed to find with Franz,
30
00:02:38,258 --> 00:02:41,853
but she may not have quite found it
with him either.
31
00:02:47,933 --> 00:02:50,096
She had sex appeal.
32
00:02:50,437 --> 00:02:52,098
There's no doubt about it.
33
00:02:52,372 --> 00:02:55,534
You can see it in the pictures.
She was very sexy.
34
00:02:57,677 --> 00:03:01,443
Otherwise things wouldn't
have happened as they did.
35
00:03:01,882 --> 00:03:05,375
You can see that in the pictures.
I was totally amazed.
36
00:03:05,818 --> 00:03:08,550
The picture I took of her
isn't half bad.
37
00:03:08,754 --> 00:03:11,189
You can see
the character of the person,
38
00:03:11,858 --> 00:03:13,656
though you see nothing
but an eye and a chic hat.
39
00:03:13,894 --> 00:03:16,727
It could still pass foday
for a modern phofograph.
40
00:03:17,030 --> 00:03:19,157
It's obvious
that this is a very elegant woman.
41
00:03:20,500 --> 00:03:22,695
She must have been very beautiful
in her youth.
42
00:03:23,135 --> 00:03:27,038
I think that the erofic
was very important fo her.
43
00:03:27,373 --> 00:03:29,866
It was the center of her life.
44
00:03:30,143 --> 00:03:31,337
She was very charming
45
00:03:32,479 --> 00:03:33,947
and extremely smart.
46
00:03:36,383 --> 00:03:39,353
1 took a picture of her
with her two sons.
47
00:03:57,937 --> 00:04:00,338
Yes, that's a beautiful picture.
48
00:04:05,544 --> 00:04:07,377
This may have been sometime...
49
00:04:08,914 --> 00:04:13,250
around 1938-40, I think.
50
00:04:19,625 --> 00:04:23,221
Quite typical. Really pretty.
51
00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:26,865
And she's wearing
that beautiful necklace
52
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,036
that's been passed down in the family.
53
00:04:31,036 --> 00:04:34,995
She was very beautiful.
54
00:04:36,776 --> 00:04:41,714
It was exquisite
how she wore her long blonde hair...
55
00:04:42,581 --> 00:04:46,279
that reached all the way
down to here
56
00:04:47,454 --> 00:04:50,980
in the late 1920s.
57
00:04:51,257 --> 00:04:54,557
And she had a striking personality.
58
00:04:54,761 --> 00:04:59,596
Of course, as a child
and even as a young man,
59
00:05:00,166 --> 00:05:02,134
I was very much
in love with my mother.
60
00:05:02,334 --> 00:05:07,329
So I will of course depict her
as a very beautiful woman,
61
00:05:07,641 --> 00:05:11,702
which might not have been
so evident to others.
62
00:05:12,112 --> 00:05:13,807
She was very blonde.
63
00:05:14,014 --> 00:05:18,076
She had that light blonde coloring
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00:05:18,451 --> 00:05:21,079
that children especially love,
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00:05:21,288 --> 00:05:26,418
blue eyes and a slim figure.
66
00:05:26,625 --> 00:05:32,086
I met Mrs. Hessel in 1936...
67
00:05:34,634 --> 00:05:36,795
after she had written...
68
00:05:37,002 --> 00:05:39,995
a very interesting essay on fashion.
69
00:05:41,274 --> 00:05:45,302
As far as I remember, she represented
a large women's magazine.
70
00:05:47,379 --> 00:05:49,576
She was an extraordinarily
charming woman.
71
00:05:52,451 --> 00:05:57,548
She had a limp from a horseback riding
accident in which she broke her foot.
72
00:05:57,923 --> 00:06:01,553
She was among the first
to drive a car here.
73
00:06:01,927 --> 00:06:04,555
In those days there were
very few cars in Paris.
74
00:06:05,264 --> 00:06:11,637
She was very chic and elegant
and knew exactly what she wanted.
75
00:06:11,838 --> 00:06:15,637
Whatever suited her was important.
76
00:06:15,841 --> 00:06:20,939
She didn't care too much
whether other people went along.
77
00:06:21,814 --> 00:06:26,377
Also, she didn't necessarily treat
very fairly
78
00:06:26,586 --> 00:06:32,958
the men who were in love with her.
79
00:06:33,225 --> 00:06:36,627
One could have held
all kinds of things against her.
80
00:06:36,829 --> 00:06:41,062
But no one did,
because she was very charming
81
00:06:41,267 --> 00:06:45,067
and very attractive
and expressed herself extremely well.
82
00:06:45,271 --> 00:06:49,869
She was a very liberated women,
all her life.
83
00:06:50,076 --> 00:06:52,339
I don't think she had
any kind of prejudice.
84
00:06:52,745 --> 00:06:56,807
First, she was married to a Jew,
85
00:06:57,117 --> 00:06:59,517
and she came
from an officer's family.
86
00:07:00,086 --> 00:07:05,581
Secondly, in Paris she was friendly
with the avant-garde,
87
00:07:05,791 --> 00:07:09,319
so she was by no means bourgeois,
as we would say,
88
00:07:09,596 --> 00:07:14,591
yet she was someone
with the best breeding.
89
00:07:14,834 --> 00:07:19,100
She was extremely cultured
and knew how to behave.
90
00:07:19,305 --> 00:07:22,331
La grande dame,
as we would say in France.
91
00:07:22,541 --> 00:07:23,702
C'était une grande dame.
92
00:07:23,910 --> 00:07:27,369
We usually met at a café
in Montparnasse,
93
00:07:27,613 --> 00:07:31,072
which in those days was the center
of art and literature,
94
00:07:31,685 --> 00:07:33,278
before Saint Germain des Prés.
95
00:07:33,485 --> 00:07:37,889
One day she gave me a journal
she'd been keeping,
96
00:07:39,158 --> 00:07:42,151
and it contained pretty much
the whole story of Jules and Jim.
97
00:07:47,166 --> 00:07:50,398
I think that Helen Hessel...
98
00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:59,973
was very interested
in human relationships...
99
00:08:03,415 --> 00:08:06,214
and in love, in a general sense.
100
00:08:06,552 --> 00:08:10,512
And this love of hers
captured in Jules and Jim
101
00:08:10,790 --> 00:08:12,656
was based on real experience.
102
00:08:12,858 --> 00:08:14,690
She had a long life.
103
00:08:14,894 --> 00:08:18,454
She outlived her husband
by so many, many years,
104
00:08:18,665 --> 00:08:20,928
and Roché likewise, by many years.
105
00:08:21,134 --> 00:08:25,071
You could discuss much
that happened to her in later years...
106
00:08:25,271 --> 00:08:29,002
when she became a translator
and translated Lo/jfa.
107
00:08:29,274 --> 00:08:33,677
That was an incredible thing
for a woman over 70,
108
00:08:33,980 --> 00:08:37,381
to translate this particularly
strange novel.
109
00:08:37,583 --> 00:08:39,916
I met her only once very briefly.
110
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,386
I think she may have paid
a short visit to the publishing house.
111
00:08:44,591 --> 00:08:49,756
She was a very old lady then,
well advanced in years.
112
00:08:52,231 --> 00:08:57,135
To help her, I entrusted her
with the translation
113
00:08:57,336 --> 00:09:00,067
of Nabokov's Lolita.
114
00:09:00,539 --> 00:09:04,169
But it turned out —
she completed the translation —
115
00:09:04,443 --> 00:09:08,244
that she wasn't quite able
to do justice to the special,
116
00:09:09,948 --> 00:09:14,784
capricious, and occasionally even —
117
00:09:16,056 --> 00:09:17,649
how shall I say? —
118
00:09:18,991 --> 00:09:22,826
demonic element in Nabokov.
119
00:09:23,028 --> 00:09:26,726
Nor was she able to come to terms
with his new vision.
120
00:09:28,067 --> 00:09:29,592
She was too conservative.
121
00:09:30,202 --> 00:09:37,370
After Jules and Jim was made
into a movie, I visited her.
122
00:09:37,976 --> 00:09:41,173
She was over 90 at the time, I think.
123
00:09:41,380 --> 00:09:44,407
She asked if I recognized
what it was based on.
124
00:09:44,616 --> 00:09:49,076
I said, “Yes, many years ago
you showed me your journal.”
125
00:09:50,222 --> 00:09:51,280
That was the story.
126
00:09:51,724 --> 00:09:55,922
She was a tyrant,
but toward her children, for example,
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00:09:56,663 --> 00:09:58,653
she was mostly very gentle.
128
00:09:59,164 --> 00:10:01,394
She was a very gentle mother
129
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,571
who would always hold us
close to her heart.
130
00:10:04,837 --> 00:10:10,902
The only difference
between my parents was
131
00:10:11,244 --> 00:10:15,306
that I felt more admiration
for my mother
132
00:10:15,514 --> 00:10:17,745
and more frust for my father.
133
00:10:23,755 --> 00:10:29,956
Both our parents were
almost mythological figures to us.
134
00:10:30,163 --> 00:10:35,863
He was the great writer
and the great translator.
135
00:10:36,101 --> 00:10:43,065
We greatly admired his command
of German and French.
136
00:10:43,610 --> 00:10:46,544
That's when we were
in Hohenschaftiarn,
137
00:10:46,745 --> 00:10:48,235
near Munich.
138
00:10:48,447 --> 00:10:51,315
It was a wonderful time.
139
00:10:52,085 --> 00:10:58,115
I remember we were all living
140
00:10:58,658 --> 00:11:02,025
together in a house
141
00:11:03,129 --> 00:11:06,326
situated af the fop of a small hill.
142
00:11:06,533 --> 00:11:09,866
I remember
that we even went fo school there.
143
00:11:10,202 --> 00:11:17,166
Koch would sunbathe in a meadow,
144
00:11:17,376 --> 00:11:20,711
and Roché would skip stones
on the lake.
145
00:11:20,913 --> 00:11:28,582
And there was a balcony,
and a country road foo.
146
00:11:28,922 --> 00:11:31,913
And there was this free
147
00:11:32,125 --> 00:11:39,121
that to me was like paradise.
148
00:11:39,331 --> 00:11:42,825
The first image
of my father that emerges
149
00:11:43,035 --> 00:11:45,801
from when I was a small child
150
00:11:46,004 --> 00:11:49,668
was that he had
such a beautiful round head.
151
00:11:49,975 --> 00:11:51,875
My brother and I loved him very much
152
00:11:52,110 --> 00:11:57,674
as some kind of benign moon spirit.
153
00:11:57,884 --> 00:12:03,913
I could say that I resemble him
very much physically.
154
00:12:04,123 --> 00:12:06,182
He looked like a man of letters.
155
00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:11,352
He never paid
much attention to clothes,
156
00:12:11,563 --> 00:12:15,966
but he was always quite neat
and good-looking.
157
00:12:17,135 --> 00:12:19,331
He wasn't very tall in stature,
158
00:12:19,806 --> 00:12:24,140
and this very
formidable-looking head
159
00:12:24,610 --> 00:12:27,409
had a fouch of Asian features.
160
00:12:28,214 --> 00:12:32,378
He was always in his little room,
in his study,
161
00:12:32,652 --> 00:12:36,178
which smelled very much
of cigarette smoke,
162
00:12:36,489 --> 00:12:38,355
which we especially loved.
163
00:12:38,557 --> 00:12:41,653
He'd take us in his arms
and tell us stories
164
00:12:41,894 --> 00:12:45,421
from The liad or The Odyssey.
165
00:12:45,631 --> 00:12:49,796
When he would help me
with homework,
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00:12:50,003 --> 00:12:52,370
that is, Latin or Greek,
167
00:12:53,806 --> 00:12:57,003
he was often strict,
168
00:12:57,210 --> 00:13:01,703
but almost against his will.
169
00:13:01,913 --> 00:13:04,008
I loved Hessel very much
170
00:13:04,583 --> 00:13:10,148
because he had
such a gentle disposition.
171
00:13:10,889 --> 00:13:14,052
He was tolerant, lovable...
172
00:13:15,662 --> 00:13:20,326
always friendly, and a peacemaker
whenever an argument erupted.
173
00:13:21,801 --> 00:13:27,034
I've never met another human being
like him in my whole life.
174
00:13:27,472 --> 00:13:33,469
In terms of character, he's like me
175
00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,206
inasmuch as he was —
176
00:13:38,684 --> 00:13:42,815
I don't exactly want to say
a passive man.
177
00:13:43,523 --> 00:13:47,585
In his view it was better
to undertake as little as possible
178
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:53,125
in order to fully understand
whatever you did undertake
179
00:13:53,332 --> 00:13:55,164
and share it with others.
180
00:13:55,368 --> 00:13:57,359
Without exception they loved him,
181
00:13:57,602 --> 00:13:59,594
but of course
they also laughed at him.
182
00:13:59,806 --> 00:14:01,740
I laughed at him myself.
183
00:14:02,442 --> 00:14:06,674
He drew a smile from you
184
00:14:07,613 --> 00:14:15,543
because his view of the world
185
00:14:16,154 --> 00:14:18,418
had a childlike quality
186
00:14:19,692 --> 00:14:24,288
that would unfortunately make us
smile condescendingly on occasion.
187
00:14:24,496 --> 00:14:28,660
I think that as a young man
188
00:14:28,900 --> 00:14:31,370
he was very spoiled.
189
00:14:31,604 --> 00:14:38,100
He believed he could devote himself
entirely to beauty and art.
190
00:14:38,344 --> 00:14:43,543
But then came WW I,
and all those complicated times.
191
00:14:44,015 --> 00:14:49,216
Perhaps he didn't feel very confident
192
00:14:49,422 --> 00:14:55,918
as a man of action,
193
00:14:56,129 --> 00:15:01,567
but he felt very confident
as a man of knowledge,
194
00:15:02,033 --> 00:15:08,336
a man who lovingly embraced
all that the world brought his way.
195
00:15:09,041 --> 00:15:11,100
He was the son of a banker
196
00:15:11,309 --> 00:15:16,009
who lost his money
during the Inflation.
197
00:15:16,215 --> 00:15:23,884
He led a life that allowed him
to devote himself to his passions,
198
00:15:24,256 --> 00:15:27,921
to literature and the literary life.
199
00:15:29,428 --> 00:15:34,559
Then, affer the losses in the 1920s,
200
00:15:34,767 --> 00:15:37,259
he had fo become a book editor.
201
00:15:37,470 --> 00:15:38,835
He was also a wrifer,
202
00:15:39,038 --> 00:15:44,841
though his books were never
successful enough fo earn him a living.
203
00:15:46,211 --> 00:15:51,308
But for many years he was
my father's chief edifor
204
00:15:52,051 --> 00:15:56,113
and introduced him
fo many German authors.
205
00:15:56,322 --> 00:15:59,256
Benjamin, whom [ve already mentioned,
and Mascha Kaléko.
206
00:15:59,524 --> 00:16:04,086
And, of course, he also infroduced us
fo French literature.
207
00:16:04,297 --> 00:16:09,962
He also frans/ated Proust,
fogether with Walter Benjamin.
208
00:16:10,836 --> 00:16:13,966
He was also good friends
with Mascha Kaléko,
209
00:16:14,173 --> 00:16:16,072
one of his platonic relationships.
210
00:16:16,274 --> 00:16:18,903
He was a great admirer of women,
211
00:16:19,144 --> 00:16:22,910
but without, I think, acting on it.
212
00:16:28,955 --> 00:16:31,447
I learned fairly late
213
00:16:31,657 --> 00:16:33,682
about Jules and Jim
214
00:16:33,926 --> 00:16:36,394
and that the lady in question
215
00:16:36,596 --> 00:16:40,191
was Helen Hessel
216
00:16:40,533 --> 00:16:43,467
and that Franz Hessel
217
00:16:44,035 --> 00:16:47,198
and the author Roché
were the friends.
218
00:16:47,405 --> 00:16:51,535
Actually, I haven't read
Jules and Jim.
219
00:16:52,511 --> 00:16:54,173
I saw the film first.
220
00:16:54,913 --> 00:16:58,214
He'd given me the book
two years earlier.
221
00:16:58,417 --> 00:17:00,111
It had come out
three years earlier.
222
00:17:00,485 --> 00:17:03,352
But I hadn't taken the time
to read it.
223
00:17:03,556 --> 00:17:05,887
I saw the film first
224
00:17:06,092 --> 00:17:07,752
without having read the book,
225
00:17:08,193 --> 00:17:12,289
and I recognized
the character of my father perfectly.
226
00:17:12,565 --> 00:17:17,401
But I recognized him
not only in Jim,
227
00:17:17,836 --> 00:17:20,932
but in Jules as well,
on a philosophical level.
228
00:17:21,140 --> 00:17:25,576
Jules' and Jim's philosophy of life
was that of my father.
229
00:17:25,778 --> 00:17:27,472
My father wrote it as a dialogue,
230
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,377
but I found it more in Jim
but also in Jules.
231
00:17:31,584 --> 00:17:35,213
He was a man with two lives.
232
00:17:36,321 --> 00:17:40,952
He had an exterior life,
a worldly life.
233
00:17:41,192 --> 00:17:46,221
He saw lots of people
in artistic circles,
234
00:17:46,432 --> 00:17:49,731
and he traveled
to India and the United States.
235
00:17:50,903 --> 00:17:56,432
In this life he was regarded
as quite exceptional in every way.
236
00:17:56,776 --> 00:18:00,541
He was extremely brilliant
and friendly and kind, and so forth.
237
00:18:01,180 --> 00:18:04,172
Then he had another life as well,
238
00:18:04,784 --> 00:18:07,651
a life of contemplation and writing.
239
00:18:07,886 --> 00:18:10,480
He lived this life at home.
240
00:18:11,356 --> 00:18:17,261
In this life he wasn't very accessible
to those around him.
241
00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:21,962
I don't think he gave much
to his wife,
242
00:18:22,167 --> 00:18:24,796
and he gave very little
to me, his son.
243
00:18:26,137 --> 00:18:29,506
There were moments
of great camaraderie,
244
00:18:29,808 --> 00:18:33,369
but he never paid attention to me
as a child or took me in his arms.
245
00:18:34,079 --> 00:18:39,450
He never really took the time
to raise his child.
246
00:18:39,652 --> 00:18:43,680
Roché in Hohenschaftlarn
247
00:18:44,056 --> 00:18:52,055
was very pleasant as a friend.
248
00:18:52,263 --> 00:19:03,538
Once I saw my mother being carried,
249
00:19:03,742 --> 00:19:11,150
either in his arms,
or perhaps it was Koch or Hessel.
250
00:19:13,519 --> 00:19:18,888
She was being carried
around the room.
251
00:19:19,458 --> 00:19:26,887
She had that long,
as yet uncropped blonde hair,
252
00:19:27,532 --> 00:19:29,865
and she was laughing at it all.
253
00:19:30,536 --> 00:19:34,165
That made a big impression on me.
254
00:19:34,373 --> 00:19:36,807
I always thought
my parents were married.
255
00:19:37,009 --> 00:19:39,705
They never said a word
to me about it.
256
00:19:40,546 --> 00:19:44,914
One day, when I was about 21 or 22,
I was skiing,
257
00:19:45,651 --> 00:19:48,643
and I received a postcard that said,
258
00:19:48,854 --> 00:19:50,583
“We got married.”
259
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:55,387
That's when I learned I was
actually an illegitimate child
260
00:19:55,627 --> 00:19:59,189
and that I shouldn't even have been
using my father's last name.
261
00:19:59,865 --> 00:20:03,596
He had bribed a clerk at city hall
262
00:20:03,803 --> 00:20:05,964
into adding Roché to my name,
263
00:20:06,172 --> 00:20:09,403
but technically
I was a fatherless child.
264
00:20:09,808 --> 00:20:11,573
I never knew.
265
00:20:11,777 --> 00:20:15,974
I'd only noticed that he'd spend
a week or two at the house,
266
00:20:16,882 --> 00:20:21,046
and then he'd leave
for a month or two.
267
00:20:21,753 --> 00:20:25,019
I was small at the time,
but I think he had other women,
268
00:20:25,223 --> 00:20:27,192
though I didn't know it.
269
00:20:27,425 --> 00:20:33,854
He was a very tall man,
270
00:20:34,066 --> 00:20:36,432
exceedingly tall,
271
00:20:36,634 --> 00:20:42,096
at least 64” —
I don't know exactly.
272
00:20:46,077 --> 00:20:48,444
He was rather thin, foo.
273
00:20:48,646 --> 00:20:54,915
A very good-looking,
274
00:20:55,121 --> 00:20:57,419
tall young man.
275
00:20:58,324 --> 00:21:02,692
He was over six feef tall.
276
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:08,962
He had a slim figure,
a large nose,
277
00:21:09,567 --> 00:21:11,865
and an expression
278
00:21:12,137 --> 00:21:17,041
of great self-confidence.
279
00:21:17,242 --> 00:21:21,201
I only knew him in his later years,
because he was 52 when I was born.
280
00:21:21,713 --> 00:21:24,740
So I grew up with a man
who was 60 or 70 years old.
281
00:21:26,852 --> 00:21:29,480
He was tall
but a bit stooped over.
282
00:21:29,821 --> 00:21:32,290
He had blonde hair
and a triangular face.
283
00:21:32,490 --> 00:21:35,790
He looked very Anglo-Saxon.
Everyone took him for English.
284
00:21:36,662 --> 00:21:39,632
And he'd been educated
in a somewhat English fashion,
285
00:21:40,231 --> 00:21:43,759
a certain way of being discreet,
of listening to others,
286
00:21:43,969 --> 00:21:46,096
of being measured in his speech.
287
00:21:46,305 --> 00:21:48,034
He was quite English.
288
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,605
He was athletic.
289
00:21:49,842 --> 00:21:55,246
He firmly believed
290
00:21:55,513 --> 00:21:59,108
that young boys must play sports.
291
00:21:59,317 --> 00:22:01,082
He wanted us to learn to box.
292
00:22:01,287 --> 00:22:04,518
We never did,
but he himself was a boxer.
293
00:22:04,856 --> 00:22:08,087
He also wanted us to play tennis,
which we did.
294
00:22:08,426 --> 00:22:12,989
He was always
very athletic and lively,
295
00:22:13,199 --> 00:22:15,361
taking long walks and so on.
296
00:22:15,567 --> 00:22:19,027
So he was certainly
a pleasant companion for children,
297
00:22:19,238 --> 00:22:25,143
but somewhat detached
when it came to feelings.
298
00:22:26,178 --> 00:22:30,046
When he was 70 and I was 20,
299
00:22:30,249 --> 00:22:32,512
we'd play Ping-Pong together,
300
00:22:32,718 --> 00:22:34,584
and he could still beat me.
301
00:22:34,854 --> 00:22:36,981
He had a good eye
and very good reflexes.
302
00:22:37,222 --> 00:22:41,217
He was very kind and charming
303
00:22:41,426 --> 00:22:45,329
and loved to joke around,
304
00:22:45,597 --> 00:22:52,060
and even to us children he was
a representative of French culture.
305
00:22:52,304 --> 00:22:55,672
He knew all the big French names:
306
00:22:55,875 --> 00:22:58,708
Marcel Duchamps, André Breton,
and so forth.
307
00:22:59,077 --> 00:23:02,877
So he was to us the transmitter
308
00:23:03,115 --> 00:23:06,016
of this culture
that was still new fo us.
309
00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:09,381
In his room in Paris,
310
00:23:09,587 --> 00:23:13,182
and later in Sévres,
my father had lots of paintings.
311
00:23:14,492 --> 00:23:17,554
But they were constantly changing,
because he would sell them.
312
00:23:17,762 --> 00:23:21,324
Paintings by Picasso,
Braque, Modigliani,
313
00:23:21,967 --> 00:23:25,732
as well as Chagall,
Max Ernst and others.
314
00:23:26,404 --> 00:23:27,873
They were always changing,
315
00:23:28,106 --> 00:23:30,598
but two things never changed:
316
00:23:30,875 --> 00:23:36,007
a row of dolls from the Hopi tribe,
North American Indians,
317
00:23:36,714 --> 00:23:39,115
which he later sold.
318
00:23:39,384 --> 00:23:41,580
And he had this behind his bed.
319
00:23:44,823 --> 00:23:49,920
So my mother was in Paris
in the early years,
320
00:23:50,328 --> 00:23:53,263
when she was living with Roché,
321
00:23:53,464 --> 00:23:56,991
and my father would come
on occasion.
322
00:23:57,303 --> 00:24:02,570
But the focus was on Roché
and his friends.
323
00:24:02,875 --> 00:24:06,334
So she was surrounded
324
00:24:06,545 --> 00:24:10,606
by this group of people
with whom she had a relationship,
325
00:24:10,816 --> 00:24:13,285
who were also
my father's relationships.
326
00:24:13,685 --> 00:24:18,180
Later on, as a fashion journalist,
327
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:21,290
she took us along fo her shows,
328
00:24:21,492 --> 00:24:23,551
and we saw all the pretty models.
329
00:24:23,796 --> 00:24:28,893
She was very busy at the time
330
00:24:29,101 --> 00:24:32,594
earning a living for us,
331
00:24:32,805 --> 00:24:35,775
because she was
the family breadwinner.
332
00:24:35,974 --> 00:24:37,965
My father was self-employed
333
00:24:38,176 --> 00:24:41,009
but my mother —
334
00:24:41,413 --> 00:24:48,512
Because she had gone
to Paris in 1925
335
00:24:48,721 --> 00:24:52,988
and had lived with Roché,
336
00:24:53,558 --> 00:24:58,258
and up until 1928,
when she was with my father...
337
00:25:01,666 --> 00:25:05,933
she oversaw our education...
338
00:25:07,972 --> 00:25:10,169
more than my father did,
339
00:25:11,210 --> 00:25:14,544
who had withdrawn from this fask.
340
00:25:14,747 --> 00:25:17,682
She probably didn't get
341
00:25:17,915 --> 00:25:21,510
all that she might have wanted
from Roché.
342
00:25:21,753 --> 00:25:27,590
She wanted to build a great love
with him and have kids.
343
00:25:27,859 --> 00:25:30,260
As we know, that hope was dashed,
344
00:25:30,461 --> 00:25:34,329
so that she grew disappointed in him,
345
00:25:34,532 --> 00:25:38,799
although she had invested a lot
in this passionate relationship.
346
00:25:39,104 --> 00:25:42,232
She felt much more
passionately toward him
347
00:25:42,441 --> 00:25:47,674
than he probably felt toward her.
348
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,644
I think my father
was very hard on women.
349
00:25:50,848 --> 00:25:55,012
He lived with three women,
and he said,
350
00:25:55,653 --> 00:25:59,214
“I'll marry the one
who survives the longest.”
351
00:26:00,192 --> 00:26:03,651
So if two were to die,
he'd marry the third.
352
00:26:04,296 --> 00:26:06,355
I think all three suffered quite a bit.
353
00:26:06,565 --> 00:26:09,796
Each was quite aggressive
towards the other two.
354
00:26:10,035 --> 00:26:13,005
But I never heard
a word about anything at all.
355
00:26:13,271 --> 00:26:16,138
I can simply say
that my mother was unhappy
356
00:26:16,541 --> 00:26:19,671
and that there were stormy times
with my father,
357
00:26:19,877 --> 00:26:22,939
and they'd come to blows.
Not a good couple at all.
358
00:26:23,147 --> 00:26:25,583
When I was in Berlin
359
00:26:25,851 --> 00:26:28,582
around 1934,
360
00:26:29,188 --> 00:26:32,088
when the break occurred
361
00:26:32,324 --> 00:26:40,323
between my mother and Roché,
362
00:26:40,898 --> 00:26:45,564
she wrote to my father that
as far as she was concerned,
363
00:26:45,804 --> 00:26:54,211
the “false friend”
no longer existed for her
364
00:26:54,445 --> 00:26:59,976
for this or that reason,
and she explained why.
365
00:27:00,419 --> 00:27:07,654
And my father went obediently
along with my mother
366
00:27:08,292 --> 00:27:16,701
and likewise broke off
all contact with Roché.
367
00:27:17,469 --> 00:27:20,369
Of course, he was no match
368
00:27:20,905 --> 00:27:22,806
for the brutality
that was rampant then.
369
00:27:23,008 --> 00:27:27,605
Actually, he was never
really confronted with it.
370
00:27:29,114 --> 00:27:33,050
In the final years of the Nazis,
when he was working for us,
371
00:27:33,251 --> 00:27:35,686
he lived a somewhat withdrawn life.
372
00:27:37,088 --> 00:27:39,615
But we stood by him.
Certainly my father did,
373
00:27:39,924 --> 00:27:44,055
which remained under wraps for a while
but later came out
374
00:27:44,262 --> 00:27:48,757
and led to a Nazi trial
against my father
375
00:27:49,167 --> 00:27:52,569
for having employed Franz Hessel
and Paul Meyer,
376
00:27:52,837 --> 00:27:57,332
both of whom were Jews.
He was viciously attacked for it.
377
00:27:58,844 --> 00:28:05,750
But he must have felt some bitterness
378
00:28:05,951 --> 00:28:11,684
at suddenly finding himself a pariah.
379
00:28:11,923 --> 00:28:16,862
1 think if there had only been
Jews like my father,
380
00:28:17,261 --> 00:28:20,424
fascism would have had
an even easier time of it.
381
00:28:20,632 --> 00:28:23,259
You can make that criticism of him.
382
00:28:23,468 --> 00:28:28,667
He always spoke against the Nazis,
of course,
383
00:28:28,874 --> 00:28:32,810
but he never saw the need
384
00:28:33,144 --> 00:28:37,240
fo join any kind of group
fo fight them.
385
00:28:37,583 --> 00:28:39,414
He was against Hitler, of course,
386
00:28:39,651 --> 00:28:43,019
but in a “belles lettres” sort of way.
387
00:28:43,255 --> 00:28:47,192
He probably had no awareness
of the great danger he was in.
388
00:28:47,392 --> 00:28:50,692
He could easily have come
to a very bad end.
389
00:28:50,962 --> 00:28:55,230
And if my mother hadn't gone
to Germany in 1938
390
00:28:55,467 --> 00:29:01,873
and almost forcefully taken him along,
he'd probably have met a bad end.
391
00:29:02,074 --> 00:29:05,169
He didn't live this way
for much longer,
392
00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:07,640
but at least he lived in freedom.
393
00:29:07,846 --> 00:29:10,247
My father had been in India,
394
00:29:10,715 --> 00:29:15,711
where he'd worked
for the Maharaja of Indore.
395
00:29:16,355 --> 00:29:20,121
He saw how they cremated
the dead there,
396
00:29:20,424 --> 00:29:22,757
and he thought it was
a beautiful custom.
397
00:29:23,394 --> 00:29:26,160
I think he'd also read many works
398
00:29:26,365 --> 00:29:31,029
on Buddhism
and religions of the Far East.
399
00:29:32,336 --> 00:29:34,634
He found cemeteries quite ugly.
400
00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:39,038
He didn't want his body
cluttering up the earth
401
00:29:39,243 --> 00:29:41,769
or other people
coming across his bones.
402
00:29:42,180 --> 00:29:45,740
It was a sense of purity.
403
00:29:46,984 --> 00:29:50,046
He wanted to cleanse
the earth of his body.
404
00:29:51,556 --> 00:29:53,957
So he asked to be cremated,
and so did my mother.
405
00:29:54,893 --> 00:29:59,228
He asked for the ashes to be placed
in some beautiful spot.
406
00:29:59,597 --> 00:30:03,125
This is the spot,
here at the foot of this tree.
407
00:30:04,536 --> 00:30:06,971
Here I am at my mother's grave.
408
00:30:07,338 --> 00:30:12,277
She died in 1982 in Paris.
409
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:21,176
My father died in 1941 in Sanary.
410
00:30:22,153 --> 00:30:28,923
My mother was 96 years old,
while my father only lived to be 60.
411
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,490
A little over 60.
30690
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