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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:18,752 --> 00:00:21,585 What it's all about now? Huh? 2 00:00:21,688 --> 00:00:24,486 We're making a documentary about Bill. 3 00:00:24,591 --> 00:00:26,821 Oh, a documentary on him? Yes. 4 00:00:26,926 --> 00:00:28,791 Oh. What about it? 5 00:00:28,895 --> 00:00:31,227 What do you want me say about Bill? 6 00:01:39,099 --> 00:01:41,966 The best fashion show is definitely on the street. 7 00:01:42,068 --> 00:01:44,127 Always has been and always will be. 8 00:01:44,237 --> 00:01:46,671 It never occurred to me that I'm just waiting. 9 00:01:46,773 --> 00:01:49,970 It's always the hope that you'll see... 10 00:01:50,076 --> 00:01:52,772 some marvelous, exotic bird of paradise, 11 00:01:52,879 --> 00:01:55,814 meaning a very elegant, stunning woman, 12 00:01:55,915 --> 00:01:58,440 or someone wearing something terrific. 13 00:01:58,551 --> 00:02:01,179 A friend of mine, Steven O., called me at home, 14 00:02:01,287 --> 00:02:04,620 and he said, "Patrick, there's 17 pictures of you... 15 00:02:04,724 --> 00:02:06,453 in the New York Times. " 16 00:02:06,559 --> 00:02:09,960 I was walking on a cloud for weeks after that. I still am. 17 00:02:10,063 --> 00:02:11,963 I'm still on my dandy cloud. 18 00:02:12,065 --> 00:02:13,157 Oh, my God. 19 00:02:13,266 --> 00:02:15,598 Look at... Look at the shoes. See the heels? 20 00:02:15,702 --> 00:02:17,465 Isn't that wonderful? 21 00:02:17,570 --> 00:02:21,131 You have to be able to give the reader... in a flash on Sunday... 22 00:02:21,241 --> 00:02:24,438 news and excitement about what it was. 23 00:02:24,544 --> 00:02:25,806 You know, he has two columns. 24 00:02:25,912 --> 00:02:27,812 One of them which is about... 25 00:02:27,914 --> 00:02:31,782 a documentation of New York life, 26 00:02:31,885 --> 00:02:37,016 in terms of the drivers of its social and philanthropic world, political world, 27 00:02:37,123 --> 00:02:42,117 and this other, which is really an attempt to tease out trends... 28 00:02:42,228 --> 00:02:45,061 in terms of the reality of how people dress. 29 00:02:45,165 --> 00:02:49,625 By covering those two aspects, I think he really does address... 30 00:02:49,736 --> 00:02:51,829 the whole spectrum of what we are as New Yorkers, 31 00:02:51,938 --> 00:02:54,372 and I believe he's the only one who does it. 32 00:02:54,474 --> 00:02:58,740 See, I don't decide anything. I let the street speak to me. 33 00:02:58,845 --> 00:03:01,837 In order for the street to speak to you, 34 00:03:01,948 --> 00:03:04,712 you've got to stay out there and see what it is. 35 00:03:04,817 --> 00:03:07,251 You just don't manufacture in your head... 36 00:03:07,353 --> 00:03:09,184 that skirts at the knee are the thing. 37 00:03:09,289 --> 00:03:11,814 Then you go out and photograph people with skirts at the knee. 38 00:03:11,925 --> 00:03:15,861 You've got to stay on the street and let the street tell you what it is. 39 00:03:15,962 --> 00:03:18,692 There's no shortcuts. Believe me. 40 00:03:52,732 --> 00:03:55,963 Oh, my goodness. I don't know where to stop or start. 41 00:03:56,069 --> 00:03:57,036 This is terrible. 42 00:03:58,338 --> 00:03:59,532 What's your deadline? 43 00:03:59,639 --> 00:04:02,233 You could... You could really be a great help to me. 44 00:04:02,342 --> 00:04:03,832 What? 45 00:04:03,943 --> 00:04:05,911 Take these out like this, John. 46 00:04:06,012 --> 00:04:09,038 Okay. Make it easy. 47 00:04:09,148 --> 00:04:11,241 And keep them like this, and it would help me. 48 00:04:11,351 --> 00:04:13,114 Put 'em in here. Okay. 49 00:04:13,219 --> 00:04:15,653 I hate to ask you. I don't mean to use you... 50 00:04:15,755 --> 00:04:18,053 or misuse you, but it would be helpful. 51 00:04:19,525 --> 00:04:20,787 Today is Thursday. 52 00:04:20,893 --> 00:04:22,884 When do you usually know when your page... 53 00:04:22,996 --> 00:04:25,726 Right now. Right now. I see. 54 00:04:25,832 --> 00:04:27,823 Yeah, it should be done. I see. 55 00:04:27,934 --> 00:04:29,765 We haven't even got 'em scanned. 56 00:04:29,869 --> 00:04:32,497 Do you know what your page is yet? Your "On the Street" page? 57 00:04:32,605 --> 00:04:34,197 Do you know what it's going to be? 58 00:04:34,307 --> 00:04:38,334 It's going to be, uh, all on legs and shoes. 59 00:04:46,419 --> 00:04:48,148 Oh, those are nice. 60 00:04:48,254 --> 00:04:49,949 Now that's a good one. 61 00:04:50,056 --> 00:04:51,489 I guess we'd better do it. 62 00:04:52,525 --> 00:04:55,289 You're gonna call that store you want me to run down to... 63 00:04:55,395 --> 00:04:56,760 to go get your film? Yeah. 64 00:05:02,468 --> 00:05:03,935 Oh, hello there. 65 00:05:04,037 --> 00:05:06,699 Uh, this is the guy that comes on a bicycle. 66 00:05:06,806 --> 00:05:09,434 You're developing some film for me. 67 00:05:09,542 --> 00:05:13,034 Yeah. Uh, listen, I'm in... kind of running, 68 00:05:13,146 --> 00:05:16,479 and a friend of mine was gonna come and pick it up. 69 00:05:16,582 --> 00:05:18,482 John. 70 00:05:18,584 --> 00:05:21,576 He's a tall fella, and he has long hair. 71 00:05:21,688 --> 00:05:23,713 You know. Okay. 72 00:05:23,823 --> 00:05:25,120 All right. 73 00:05:25,224 --> 00:05:26,657 I'll go get it. 74 00:05:26,759 --> 00:05:30,388 There's a couple of pictures on there of shoes from this morning. 75 00:05:30,496 --> 00:05:32,123 All right. So, we need that for today. 76 00:05:32,231 --> 00:05:35,394 - And I'll quickly get on this. - Okay. I'll be right back with it. 77 00:05:35,501 --> 00:05:37,992 Wait a minute. Come on. Let's get snappin' and crackin'. 78 00:05:38,104 --> 00:05:41,835 See, static, static. Getting a little better. 79 00:05:41,941 --> 00:05:44,068 Then when the wind blows a bit... 80 00:05:44,177 --> 00:05:45,405 Oh, isn't that fun. 81 00:05:45,511 --> 00:05:48,674 Oh, you see, the minute you get in the rain... 82 00:05:48,781 --> 00:05:51,750 When it rains, it's a whole different scene. 83 00:05:51,851 --> 00:05:54,684 Or when there's a blizzard is the best time. 84 00:05:54,787 --> 00:05:56,482 Things happen. People forget about you. 85 00:05:56,589 --> 00:06:00,047 If they see you, they don't go putting on airs. 86 00:06:00,159 --> 00:06:01,251 They're the way they are, 87 00:06:01,361 --> 00:06:03,693 and if they happen to be wearing what you're photographing, 88 00:06:03,796 --> 00:06:05,491 then you're in business. 89 00:06:05,598 --> 00:06:08,590 He's caught me on a rainy day jumping puddles, 90 00:06:08,701 --> 00:06:10,566 the same way I did for Avedon, 91 00:06:10,670 --> 00:06:11,864 but... 92 00:06:11,971 --> 00:06:13,700 It was much less painful... 93 00:06:13,806 --> 00:06:15,706 when Bill photographed me, 94 00:06:15,808 --> 00:06:17,435 and much more natural. 95 00:06:17,543 --> 00:06:19,101 He catches you crossing a street... 96 00:06:19,212 --> 00:06:21,009 with boots and blue jeans and this, 97 00:06:21,114 --> 00:06:22,445 and he's so happy, 98 00:06:22,548 --> 00:06:25,346 and he's much happier when you're in this... 99 00:06:25,451 --> 00:06:27,681 looking terrible and ratty, than he is... 100 00:06:27,787 --> 00:06:31,621 if he saw you in something incredibly elegant and smart. 101 00:06:33,926 --> 00:06:36,724 That's my poncho. They're so cheap... 102 00:06:36,829 --> 00:06:40,162 that you wear them once or twice, and then they start tearing. 103 00:06:40,266 --> 00:06:42,234 First at the neck, immediately. 104 00:06:42,335 --> 00:06:45,702 Well, why buy a new one? It's only gonna tear anyway. 105 00:06:46,906 --> 00:06:49,636 So you repair the old one. 106 00:06:51,577 --> 00:06:55,069 Damn you, New Yorkers. You're all so extravagant and wasteful. 107 00:06:56,549 --> 00:06:58,176 But I don't believe in one wear. 108 00:06:58,284 --> 00:07:03,483 So a little tape. And we're back in business. 109 00:07:03,589 --> 00:07:06,524 I know this embarrasses everyone. 110 00:07:06,626 --> 00:07:08,457 It doesn't embarrass me. 111 00:07:08,561 --> 00:07:10,392 I think everyone that knows Bill... 112 00:07:10,496 --> 00:07:13,488 and understands who he is and what he represents... 113 00:07:13,599 --> 00:07:17,330 will always be thrilled to be photographed by Bill. 114 00:07:17,437 --> 00:07:20,338 I mean, I've said many times that we all get dressed for Bill. 115 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,704 Anna! Anna! 116 00:07:24,610 --> 00:07:26,009 Anna, right here, please? 117 00:07:26,112 --> 00:07:29,104 Anna, right here. Can you stop for a moment? 118 00:07:29,215 --> 00:07:31,342 - She stopped for you. - She stopped for Bill. 119 00:07:31,451 --> 00:07:34,284 He's sort of been documenting me for... 120 00:07:34,387 --> 00:07:36,855 Since I was a kid, like in my... 19, 20 years old, 121 00:07:36,956 --> 00:07:38,514 and it's one snap, two snaps, 122 00:07:38,624 --> 00:07:41,184 or he ignores you, which is death, you know? 123 00:07:41,294 --> 00:07:44,593 But he's always doing it because he has a point of view. 124 00:07:44,697 --> 00:07:46,494 He'd take my picture whenever he saw me. 125 00:07:46,599 --> 00:07:49,261 Sometimes it got into the Times, and most often not. 126 00:07:49,368 --> 00:07:52,462 And then little by little, he began to photograph me more. 127 00:07:52,572 --> 00:07:56,406 I would come into a place. And he would say, "Oh, thank God you're here." 128 00:07:56,509 --> 00:07:58,670 Every... Oh, I guess you can't say that. 129 00:07:58,778 --> 00:08:03,181 But he used to say, "Everybody here looks so boring. Everybody looks alike. " 130 00:08:03,282 --> 00:08:05,113 See, a lot of people have taste. 131 00:08:05,218 --> 00:08:07,209 But they don't have the daring to be creative. 132 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,585 Here we are in an age of the cookie-cutter sameness. 133 00:08:10,690 --> 00:08:12,487 There are few that are rarities. 134 00:08:12,592 --> 00:08:16,858 Someone that doesn't look like they were stamped out of... 135 00:08:16,963 --> 00:08:18,988 ten million other people looking all the same. 136 00:08:19,098 --> 00:08:21,726 At the U.N., my friends used to... 137 00:08:21,834 --> 00:08:24,962 Colleagues used to call me the designing diplomat... 138 00:08:25,071 --> 00:08:28,700 because during the day, I wore my U.N. Suit, 139 00:08:28,808 --> 00:08:31,470 which was very conservative, but in the evenings, 140 00:08:31,577 --> 00:08:33,977 I'd go out to Studio 54. 141 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,674 That's when Bill photographed me for the first time. 142 00:08:36,782 --> 00:08:38,215 I wish I could find the picture. 143 00:08:38,317 --> 00:08:40,911 The first picture he ever took of me in the New York Times. 144 00:08:41,020 --> 00:08:43,818 I used to have this coat with a big hood... 145 00:08:43,923 --> 00:08:47,324 and it was a Hudson Bay blanket, so it was all, like, bright striped, 146 00:08:47,426 --> 00:08:50,156 and I used to wear them with, like, little hot-pink ankle boots. 147 00:08:50,263 --> 00:08:53,596 That's how I met him. He used to run after me on the street. 148 00:08:53,699 --> 00:08:56,566 He's like a war photographer in that he'll do anything for the shot. 149 00:08:56,669 --> 00:08:58,569 I've been in deep conversations with him... 150 00:08:58,671 --> 00:09:01,834 where he just will, like, run from me 'cause he sees somebody. 151 00:09:01,941 --> 00:09:05,308 So, I mean, he sees something that's amazing, he has to go shoot it. 152 00:09:06,913 --> 00:09:10,349 I sometimes will look at his pages in the Times or online, 153 00:09:10,449 --> 00:09:13,907 and just be so amazed that he and I... 154 00:09:14,020 --> 00:09:16,113 and all my team and all the rest of the world... 155 00:09:16,222 --> 00:09:18,122 we're all sitting in the same fashion shows... 156 00:09:18,224 --> 00:09:21,785 but he's seen something on the street or on the runway... 157 00:09:21,894 --> 00:09:23,862 that completely missed all of us, 158 00:09:23,963 --> 00:09:27,421 and in six months' time, you know, that will be a trend. 159 00:09:27,533 --> 00:09:29,467 Hold that right there. 160 00:09:29,569 --> 00:09:31,196 You have to do three things. 161 00:09:31,304 --> 00:09:35,434 You don't get the most information from any one. 162 00:09:35,541 --> 00:09:37,304 You have to photograph the collections. 163 00:09:37,410 --> 00:09:39,878 You have to photograph the women on the street... 164 00:09:39,979 --> 00:09:43,107 who have bought the things and how they're wearing them. 165 00:09:43,215 --> 00:09:46,582 And then you have to go to the evening events. 166 00:09:46,686 --> 00:09:50,713 You can't report to the public unless you've seen it all. 167 00:09:50,823 --> 00:09:52,791 People just go off and say what they think. 168 00:09:52,892 --> 00:09:54,917 Well, it isn't really what I think. 169 00:09:55,027 --> 00:09:56,892 It's what I see. 170 00:09:57,797 --> 00:10:00,630 It doesn't happen like in a day or an hour. 171 00:10:00,733 --> 00:10:01,995 I go out and that's it. 172 00:10:02,101 --> 00:10:04,763 I run around and photograph all people with holes in their sneakers. 173 00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:05,962 It's not that at all. 174 00:10:06,072 --> 00:10:08,040 Suddenly I see something, then I see it again, 175 00:10:08,140 --> 00:10:11,337 and I think, "Ah, there's an idea," and other times I'll see it and I'll think, 176 00:10:11,444 --> 00:10:13,776 "Wow, that's an idea," and then I'll look for it. 177 00:10:13,879 --> 00:10:17,747 But I'll be doing ten other ideas all at once, you see. 178 00:10:38,638 --> 00:10:40,538 They make the best sandwich. 179 00:10:44,076 --> 00:10:48,445 And coffee... three dollars. The cheaper the better, you know? 180 00:10:48,547 --> 00:10:51,948 The coffee at the Times, l... I... It's so... ugh. 181 00:11:12,304 --> 00:11:15,705 My cord kept coming out of the camera last night. Oh, yeah? 182 00:11:15,808 --> 00:11:17,742 So I've been worried sick. 183 00:11:18,844 --> 00:11:21,472 But I got something, any rate, on that roll. 184 00:11:21,580 --> 00:11:23,343 We'll see about the others. 185 00:11:31,290 --> 00:11:33,349 Do you know anything about his personal life? 186 00:11:33,459 --> 00:11:34,892 Nothing. Nothing. 187 00:11:34,994 --> 00:11:36,359 Absolutely nothing. 188 00:11:40,132 --> 00:11:42,862 I don't think anybody gets to know him very well, do they? 189 00:11:42,968 --> 00:11:47,598 I have the feeling that he doesn't sit down to talk to people too much. 190 00:11:50,643 --> 00:11:52,873 I have no idea about his private life. 191 00:11:52,978 --> 00:11:57,074 I have no idea if he's lonely. I have no idea... Where does he eat dinner every night? 192 00:11:57,183 --> 00:11:59,208 You have no id... I mean, I don't. 193 00:11:59,318 --> 00:12:01,582 I wonder, you know, what he does do. 194 00:12:24,410 --> 00:12:26,935 For all the years that I've known Bill, 195 00:12:27,046 --> 00:12:28,638 he's lived at Carnegie Hall... 196 00:12:28,748 --> 00:12:31,876 in a tiny, tiny room. 197 00:12:31,984 --> 00:12:35,511 You know, I once went to his studio. Have you been there? Oh, my God. 198 00:12:35,621 --> 00:12:37,486 When I saw that, I was just, like, wow. 199 00:12:38,758 --> 00:12:42,057 File cabinets, file cabinets, file cabinets. 200 00:12:42,161 --> 00:12:44,823 He has negatives of every picture he's ever taken. 201 00:12:48,334 --> 00:12:50,359 That's my filing system. 202 00:12:51,804 --> 00:12:52,771 Okay. 203 00:12:55,541 --> 00:12:57,031 And this is my clothes closet. 204 00:13:00,713 --> 00:13:02,146 Does he still sleep on the cabinets? 205 00:13:02,248 --> 00:13:04,978 It's just like it was just all a little room... 206 00:13:05,084 --> 00:13:07,609 with all these file cabinets and negatives, 207 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,917 and that was probably 30 years ago. 208 00:13:11,023 --> 00:13:13,958 I know that the bathroom was in the hall. 209 00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:22,995 Editta? 210 00:13:23,102 --> 00:13:25,593 Come in. 211 00:13:25,704 --> 00:13:27,296 I've been here 60 years. 212 00:13:27,406 --> 00:13:29,533 Carnegie Hall. 213 00:13:29,642 --> 00:13:31,041 And I'm he only one here... 214 00:13:31,143 --> 00:13:34,203 except Bill on this floor, you know. 215 00:13:34,313 --> 00:13:36,008 I've done... This is fabulous. 216 00:13:36,115 --> 00:13:38,640 All the stars of Hollywood. 217 00:13:38,751 --> 00:13:40,184 Yes. Well, I'm very famous. 218 00:13:40,286 --> 00:13:42,311 Look at the people I've done. Look. 219 00:13:42,421 --> 00:13:45,857 Tyrone Power, Henry Fonda, Mary Martin. 220 00:13:45,958 --> 00:13:47,391 Let's see. 221 00:13:47,493 --> 00:13:49,120 Andy Warhol here. 222 00:13:49,228 --> 00:13:51,992 You can't photograph that. 223 00:13:52,097 --> 00:13:53,325 Just you. 224 00:13:53,432 --> 00:13:55,024 Not this. Not Andy. 225 00:13:55,134 --> 00:13:57,193 Why not? Because not. 226 00:13:57,303 --> 00:14:00,739 What do you mean you can't photograph Andy Warhol? 227 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:01,898 Who are you kidding? 228 00:14:02,007 --> 00:14:04,134 What do you mean? That's what he was all about. 229 00:14:04,243 --> 00:14:06,006 What? Being photographed. 230 00:14:06,111 --> 00:14:08,204 I just sold two to China. 231 00:14:08,314 --> 00:14:12,080 This is, uh, Bernstein, 232 00:14:12,184 --> 00:14:15,051 and he lived here in Carnegie Hall. 233 00:14:15,154 --> 00:14:17,019 June Carter. 234 00:14:17,122 --> 00:14:18,419 See, this is, uh... 235 00:14:18,524 --> 00:14:20,219 You know who she is. 236 00:14:20,326 --> 00:14:21,953 Oh, Tilda Swinton? Yes! 237 00:14:22,061 --> 00:14:23,358 Tilda Swinton. Swinton. 238 00:14:23,462 --> 00:14:26,363 Isn't that nice? Mm-hmm. 239 00:14:26,465 --> 00:14:27,830 I was here 60 years. 240 00:14:27,933 --> 00:14:31,334 I'm... I'm really a, uh, a legend now. 241 00:14:31,437 --> 00:14:32,768 A legend or a fixture? 242 00:14:32,872 --> 00:14:34,840 Well, I'm both, you know what I mean? 243 00:14:37,209 --> 00:14:38,938 Does Bill live next door? 244 00:14:39,044 --> 00:14:40,978 He's down on the corner. 245 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,605 He's got a tiny little place, yeah. 246 00:14:43,716 --> 00:14:45,183 It's nothing. 247 00:14:45,284 --> 00:14:48,617 By the way, this is Lesley Vinson, 248 00:14:48,721 --> 00:14:53,249 and Lesley was the art director of Details Magazine. 249 00:14:53,359 --> 00:14:55,793 The original Details with Annie Flanders. 250 00:14:55,895 --> 00:14:57,328 We worked well together. 251 00:14:57,429 --> 00:15:01,160 She took me on and didn't mind how many changes I made... 252 00:15:01,267 --> 00:15:03,394 or how many pictures I wanted to put in. 253 00:15:03,502 --> 00:15:05,868 The most extraordinary art director. 254 00:15:05,971 --> 00:15:07,802 Incredible. Um... 255 00:15:07,907 --> 00:15:09,932 The love of Bill's life, I think. 256 00:15:10,175 --> 00:15:17,581 Details got started on the ides of March 1982. 257 00:15:17,683 --> 00:15:19,742 The reason I remember that date... 258 00:15:19,852 --> 00:15:23,253 was it was the date that the SoHo News went out of business. 259 00:15:23,355 --> 00:15:27,416 The vision that I had for Details was really a continuation... 260 00:15:27,526 --> 00:15:30,757 of what I had been doing at SoHo News, 261 00:15:30,863 --> 00:15:35,527 discovering people and giving them their first opportunity to be in print. 262 00:15:35,634 --> 00:15:39,968 The reason Annie founded the magazine was to give a platform... 263 00:15:40,072 --> 00:15:44,168 to the downtown, independent, small designers, 264 00:15:44,276 --> 00:15:47,803 who no one else would pay attention to until they were successful... 265 00:15:47,913 --> 00:15:50,473 and then steal them from Annie. 266 00:15:50,582 --> 00:15:54,040 Oh, Annie was the Earth mother of downtown. 267 00:15:54,153 --> 00:15:57,987 I don't know if that's what you called it. Oh, definitely. 268 00:15:58,090 --> 00:16:00,320 Annie would just give Bill like... Here's a hundred pages, 269 00:16:00,426 --> 00:16:03,657 and Bill flourished with Annie more than ever anywhere. 270 00:16:03,762 --> 00:16:08,096 It was like she almost gave him his own little mini magazine just to do it however he wanted. 271 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,760 He'd work all day, and he'd come up at night, 272 00:16:10,869 --> 00:16:13,702 and our sessions usually lasted till about 4:00 in the morning. 273 00:16:13,806 --> 00:16:16,036 I worked for the Establishment during the day, 274 00:16:16,141 --> 00:16:21,306 so I was like a bird getting out of a cage, and I'd go down there. 275 00:16:21,413 --> 00:16:22,971 It was marvelous. 276 00:16:45,537 --> 00:16:48,938 I would come after my job at the Times, 277 00:16:49,041 --> 00:16:53,137 and we would lay this out, and then I'd go home about 2:00. 278 00:16:53,245 --> 00:16:55,907 Biked back from SoHo where we were. 279 00:16:56,015 --> 00:16:59,348 I think one Details Magazine, it was Fall Special... 280 00:16:59,451 --> 00:17:02,579 125 pages of Bill Cunningham. 281 00:17:02,688 --> 00:17:04,383 A hundred pages? 282 00:17:04,490 --> 00:17:06,617 Ninety-nine. Ninety-nine pages. 283 00:17:06,725 --> 00:17:08,716 We just... We never thought of it. 284 00:17:08,827 --> 00:17:12,763 We just went on and did what we wanted till we had said what we wanted to say. 285 00:17:12,865 --> 00:17:14,992 111 pages. 111 pages. 286 00:17:15,100 --> 00:17:18,763 Here what I did was I blew up the embroidery of the coat, 287 00:17:18,871 --> 00:17:20,338 and we put it on the pages, 288 00:17:20,439 --> 00:17:22,999 and then put the coat, small, in the middle of it, 289 00:17:23,108 --> 00:17:24,541 'cause the news was in... 290 00:17:24,643 --> 00:17:27,009 Yeah, the idea was the big... was this. 291 00:17:27,112 --> 00:17:30,275 'Cause it was like something out of the Renaissance, you see? 292 00:17:30,382 --> 00:17:33,078 You try to show the reader what was really new. 293 00:17:33,185 --> 00:17:38,122 Look at this. It's like something from Paul Poiret, uh, 1910. 294 00:17:38,223 --> 00:17:41,590 Scheherazade, the Arabian Nights. 295 00:17:41,693 --> 00:17:45,356 Look at the embroidery, the tassels, the lace. 296 00:17:45,464 --> 00:17:48,228 Now, I mean, can you imagine the extravagance of these pages? 297 00:17:48,333 --> 00:17:50,130 Annie Flanders never blinked. 298 00:17:50,235 --> 00:17:51,793 You can't say anything, Annie. 299 00:17:51,904 --> 00:17:54,498 I didn't take money, so I can do what I want. 300 00:17:54,606 --> 00:17:58,770 It's a wonder she didn't say, "That didn't mean you can bankrupt me." 301 00:17:58,877 --> 00:18:01,437 What I did from the very first issue... 302 00:18:01,547 --> 00:18:05,074 is I kept a list of how much Bill would've gotten paid. 303 00:18:05,184 --> 00:18:09,985 Well, the first check I sent him, he came in the office and ceremoniously ripped it up. 304 00:18:10,089 --> 00:18:12,649 The second check, he did the same thing. 305 00:18:12,758 --> 00:18:16,717 You see, if you don't take money, they can't tell you what to do, kid. 306 00:18:16,829 --> 00:18:19,889 That's... That's the key to the whole thing. 307 00:18:19,998 --> 00:18:21,522 Don't touch money. 308 00:18:21,633 --> 00:18:23,464 It's the worst thing you can do. 309 00:18:23,569 --> 00:18:25,662 There's a story about the fact that Bill, 310 00:18:25,771 --> 00:18:28,239 when you sold Details to Cond� Nast, 311 00:18:28,340 --> 00:18:31,832 Bill refused to cash his check. Yes. 312 00:18:31,944 --> 00:18:35,471 And Si Newhouse was calling you like every couple of months... 313 00:18:35,581 --> 00:18:37,742 to say, "Bill, your check is waiting." 314 00:18:37,850 --> 00:18:39,715 Cond� Nast bought it? Yes, yes. 315 00:18:39,818 --> 00:18:41,877 Newhouse bought it a year ago. 316 00:18:41,987 --> 00:18:44,217 Well, Newhouse is taking the money. 317 00:18:44,323 --> 00:18:46,348 Yeah, but they don't own me, you see. 318 00:18:46,458 --> 00:18:48,790 They don't own you. 319 00:18:48,894 --> 00:18:50,862 That's the important thing, never to be owned. 320 00:18:50,963 --> 00:18:53,693 I know they don't own you. I know they don't own you. 321 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:55,198 Money's the cheapest thing. 322 00:18:55,300 --> 00:18:57,928 Liberty and freedom is the most expensive. 323 00:18:59,238 --> 00:19:01,365 No, you know what I mean, Richard. 324 00:19:01,473 --> 00:19:06,706 So you asked me... about not falling into the traps of the rich. 325 00:19:08,347 --> 00:19:15,378 I would think it was my first, uh, partner in my fashion business. 326 00:19:16,555 --> 00:19:18,955 A woman by the name of Rebekah Harkness, 327 00:19:19,057 --> 00:19:20,888 a very affluent New York family, 328 00:19:20,993 --> 00:19:24,952 and she was looking to invest in my hat shop and she did. 329 00:19:25,063 --> 00:19:29,500 But then the army came along... this is 1951... 330 00:19:29,601 --> 00:19:31,091 I was drafted. 331 00:19:31,203 --> 00:19:36,539 Well, they were appalled that I would go, and their investment would be on hold. 332 00:19:36,642 --> 00:19:37,904 Who knows what would happen? 333 00:19:38,010 --> 00:19:39,375 I was appalled at them. 334 00:19:39,478 --> 00:19:41,639 I thought, "You're drafted. 335 00:19:41,747 --> 00:19:46,548 This is the country where you live, who you are. You go. " 336 00:19:46,652 --> 00:19:48,813 Well, they couldn't understand that at all. 337 00:19:48,921 --> 00:19:52,220 Course I went in the army. I wouldn't think otherwise. 338 00:19:52,324 --> 00:19:55,418 They badgered me and they badgered my family, and finally... 339 00:19:55,527 --> 00:19:58,087 my aunt and uncle, whom I lived with here in the city, 340 00:19:58,197 --> 00:20:02,190 I think they returned the money she had invested which... God... 341 00:20:02,301 --> 00:20:04,360 Maybe it was a thousand dollars? 342 00:20:04,469 --> 00:20:06,699 Which was a lot of money then. 343 00:20:06,805 --> 00:20:11,037 To the Harkness family, I don't think a thousand dollars was a lot of money. 344 00:20:11,143 --> 00:20:13,907 Oh, they tried to have it... I know what it was... 345 00:20:14,012 --> 00:20:17,140 deducted from my army salary, 346 00:20:17,249 --> 00:20:22,084 which would have taken about ten years, 'cause I don't know what you made... 347 00:20:22,187 --> 00:20:25,645 You got paid maybe $90 a month or something like that. 348 00:20:25,757 --> 00:20:27,782 Some stupidity. 349 00:20:27,893 --> 00:20:29,656 So my family paid it off, 350 00:20:29,761 --> 00:20:32,730 and then when I got out of the army, I paid my family back. 351 00:21:08,467 --> 00:21:09,957 Don't take a picture of us. 352 00:21:10,068 --> 00:21:12,229 I'll break that fucking camera over your head. 353 00:21:19,177 --> 00:21:20,769 Yeah, he wanted... he wanted me... 354 00:21:20,879 --> 00:21:22,744 to come up and meet my replacement. 355 00:21:22,848 --> 00:21:24,338 Your replacement. Your... 356 00:21:24,449 --> 00:21:26,178 Yes, you passed on the torch to me. 357 00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:27,411 You're just a trophy wife. 358 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:28,952 I was always there at the beginning. 359 00:21:29,054 --> 00:21:30,954 I've showed her some of your layouts. 360 00:21:31,056 --> 00:21:33,752 Oh, you teaching, uh... Uh, I don't teach. 361 00:21:33,859 --> 00:21:36,123 Muffin or is she teaching you? She's teaching me. 362 00:21:36,228 --> 00:21:38,788 Now, see, you made those too big, those flowers. 363 00:21:38,897 --> 00:21:41,127 What flowers? See, that's... that's too big. 364 00:21:41,233 --> 00:21:42,700 Where's the love today, Bill? 365 00:21:42,801 --> 00:21:45,269 Love? Just get the page done. Show 'em where the love is, Bill. 366 00:21:45,370 --> 00:21:47,702 Show 'em where the love is, right? Just get the page done. 367 00:21:47,806 --> 00:21:50,297 Winchester. Winchester. 368 00:21:50,409 --> 00:21:53,469 And he means the gun off the back shelf of the pickup truck. 369 00:21:53,578 --> 00:21:55,876 John, let me see this one here. 370 00:21:55,981 --> 00:21:59,849 Put your favorite up here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 371 00:21:59,951 --> 00:22:01,919 You see, it's a little short coat in here. 372 00:22:02,020 --> 00:22:03,112 Don't encourage him. 373 00:22:03,221 --> 00:22:05,121 The good thing is he can't hear me talking about him. 374 00:22:05,223 --> 00:22:06,884 Maybe 190. I don't know what it was. 375 00:22:06,992 --> 00:22:09,620 Then all of a sudden, when I don't think he can hear me, 376 00:22:09,728 --> 00:22:11,286 he hears me perfectly well. What? 377 00:22:11,396 --> 00:22:13,591 Bill's fingerprints are all over everything he does, 378 00:22:13,699 --> 00:22:18,466 'cause he's never ever, ever sold out one inch of anything. 379 00:22:18,570 --> 00:22:21,164 When the hat business was sort of sloughing off, 380 00:22:21,273 --> 00:22:23,867 he was working for Women's Wear Daily as a... 381 00:22:23,975 --> 00:22:25,806 Writing a millinery column. 382 00:22:25,911 --> 00:22:29,813 Part of his falling out with Women's Wear Daily... 383 00:22:29,915 --> 00:22:31,473 hadn't to do with anything really big. 384 00:22:31,583 --> 00:22:33,744 It had to do with this ethical issue for him, 385 00:22:33,852 --> 00:22:38,915 which was that many of his photographs were being used for an "In and Out" list, 386 00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:44,052 and his feeling is that it's all equally in. 387 00:22:44,162 --> 00:22:45,993 That's the reason he's documenting it. 388 00:22:46,098 --> 00:22:48,259 He's incredibly kind. 389 00:22:48,367 --> 00:22:52,326 I don't think we've ever seen a cruel picture done by Bill, 390 00:22:52,437 --> 00:22:58,342 and certainly he's had an opportunity to really have done it. 391 00:22:58,443 --> 00:23:00,673 He's chosen never to do it. 392 00:23:00,779 --> 00:23:02,542 He was still working at Women's Wear, 393 00:23:02,647 --> 00:23:06,083 and he did a piece on women on the street... 394 00:23:06,184 --> 00:23:09,278 in the same clothes as the models on the runway. 395 00:23:09,388 --> 00:23:13,324 It was about how incredible women had their own style... 396 00:23:13,425 --> 00:23:15,916 and what they could do with the clothes, side by side... 397 00:23:16,027 --> 00:23:18,188 with what the designers did on the runway, 398 00:23:18,296 --> 00:23:22,960 and they changed his copy to make fun of the women. 399 00:23:23,068 --> 00:23:28,005 This idea of a valuation of one person over another, or one image over another, 400 00:23:28,106 --> 00:23:30,802 was not something that he really subscribes to as a person. 401 00:23:30,909 --> 00:23:33,002 He was so beyond upset. 402 00:23:33,111 --> 00:23:37,047 It was so sad and it... 403 00:23:37,149 --> 00:23:38,946 He didn't think he'd ever get over it, 404 00:23:39,050 --> 00:23:41,883 because he was so embarrassed and upset... 405 00:23:41,987 --> 00:23:45,548 and really cared about the women that he had put in this... 406 00:23:45,657 --> 00:23:47,989 in this and what happened. 407 00:23:48,093 --> 00:23:50,721 That was the end of his career at Women's Wear Daily. 408 00:23:50,829 --> 00:23:53,024 Yeah, she's lovely. 409 00:23:54,499 --> 00:23:56,694 Jesus, what'd she... Just get a garbage bag? 410 00:23:56,802 --> 00:24:01,068 Rubbish bag. Looks like she's in a rose, a black rose. 411 00:24:01,173 --> 00:24:02,970 It's a garbage bag. 412 00:24:03,074 --> 00:24:04,974 What the hell you talking about a rose? 413 00:24:05,076 --> 00:24:07,510 What would you people from southern New Jersey know? 414 00:24:07,612 --> 00:24:09,910 Oh-ho. Beautiful woman. 415 00:24:10,015 --> 00:24:12,108 These two are exquisite. Look at them. 416 00:24:12,217 --> 00:24:14,549 It's really hard to describe oneself... 417 00:24:14,653 --> 00:24:17,986 because I think one lives very often in other people's visions. 418 00:24:18,089 --> 00:24:23,117 I see myself as the world's oldest living teenager 'cause I have such a good time, 419 00:24:23,228 --> 00:24:26,823 and I try to get as much kick out of things as possible. 420 00:24:26,932 --> 00:24:30,424 I have all my little animals, who, by the way, are very jealous of me, 421 00:24:30,535 --> 00:24:33,527 and so I have to give them jewelry... otherwise they bite. 422 00:24:33,638 --> 00:24:38,075 I always heard growing up that Joan Crawford said that... 423 00:24:38,176 --> 00:24:40,906 whenever she went out, she had to go out as Joan Crawford. 424 00:24:41,012 --> 00:24:44,641 So I took that to heart, and whenever I go out, I have to be Patrick McDonald. 425 00:24:44,749 --> 00:24:47,912 I have to be the dandy, and I would never go out... 426 00:24:48,019 --> 00:24:50,920 without my beauty mark, my eyebrows, my hat. 427 00:24:51,022 --> 00:24:52,387 I would never do that. 428 00:24:52,491 --> 00:24:53,788 We're all canvases. 429 00:24:53,892 --> 00:24:57,726 We're all blank canvases when we get up in the morning, and we paint ourselves. 430 00:24:57,829 --> 00:24:59,694 Sometimes we're surreal. 431 00:24:59,798 --> 00:25:02,790 Sometimes we're impressionistic. Sometimes we're modern. 432 00:25:02,901 --> 00:25:04,801 It... It just depends on the day. 433 00:25:04,903 --> 00:25:10,136 This is my, uh, alphabet outfit, and, 434 00:25:10,242 --> 00:25:14,474 this is another of, uh, my... my clothing... 435 00:25:14,579 --> 00:25:18,140 that appeared in "On the Street" column of Bill Cunningham. 436 00:25:18,250 --> 00:25:20,081 I call it "Awning Stripes." 437 00:25:20,185 --> 00:25:22,585 A Scottish plaid outfit. 438 00:25:22,687 --> 00:25:25,247 I don't know which clan it belongs to. 439 00:25:25,357 --> 00:25:30,761 When I wear this outfit, people smile, and it kind of cheers them up a little bit. 440 00:25:30,862 --> 00:25:34,730 This is one of my other lollipop salesman's outfit. 441 00:25:34,833 --> 00:25:37,700 A combination of different plaids from Scotland. 442 00:25:41,373 --> 00:25:45,275 This used to be my old sofa, the jacket, 443 00:25:45,377 --> 00:25:48,437 and my pants was... used to be my ottoman. 444 00:25:48,547 --> 00:25:52,950 These are, uh, the issues from my appearances... 445 00:25:53,051 --> 00:25:55,679 in Bill Cunningham's "On the Street" column. 446 00:25:55,787 --> 00:26:02,351 They're laminated so that this will preserve it for, uh, my grandchildren. 447 00:26:02,460 --> 00:26:05,623 Put this one in the upper right-hand corner. 448 00:26:05,730 --> 00:26:07,425 Give me these two together. 449 00:26:07,532 --> 00:26:08,897 Lap them together. Together. 450 00:26:10,869 --> 00:26:13,633 Uh, put the dog back where the cab is for the minute. 451 00:26:13,738 --> 00:26:16,229 Let me see them again, John. 452 00:26:16,341 --> 00:26:17,865 Now don't get angry. 453 00:26:17,976 --> 00:26:19,341 Jiggle the mouse. 454 00:26:19,444 --> 00:26:21,639 I'm going to jiggle you right out that damn window. 455 00:26:21,746 --> 00:26:24,271 Why don't you go get your film, so I can straighten this out? 456 00:26:24,382 --> 00:26:27,317 No, I will. Put it back. As soon as I get exactly what I want. 457 00:26:27,419 --> 00:26:30,252 Oh, Jesus, give me strength to deal with you today. 458 00:26:30,355 --> 00:26:34,985 Oh, and we gotta leave room for that damn three or four lines Web site, some nonsense. 459 00:26:35,093 --> 00:26:38,961 Look at now. They've got the audio thing going at the Times, 460 00:26:39,064 --> 00:26:42,556 which they pushed me into, and they said, "Well, a lot of people don't read the paper." 461 00:26:42,667 --> 00:26:45,727 I said, "Okay, I'll do it. Where do we do it?" 462 00:26:50,976 --> 00:26:52,841 Oh, no, no, no, no, no. 463 00:26:52,944 --> 00:26:54,502 This is... He's getting in a zone. 464 00:26:54,613 --> 00:26:58,140 I just go in the room and say what's on my mind and that's it. 465 00:26:58,249 --> 00:26:59,511 It's done in five minutes. 466 00:26:59,618 --> 00:27:01,381 Okay. Yeah. 467 00:27:01,486 --> 00:27:05,081 Uh, this is Bill Cunningham, and "On the Street" this week... 468 00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:09,251 ... there's no question black is the story this week. 469 00:27:09,361 --> 00:27:14,924 Here we are, the first week in August, and the New Yorkers are all in black clothes. 470 00:27:15,033 --> 00:27:20,061 This is Bill Cunningham, and "On the Street"this week is a very interesting... 471 00:27:20,171 --> 00:27:22,537 Isn't it always? But it really is. 472 00:27:22,641 --> 00:27:25,235 The picture frame collar. 473 00:27:25,343 --> 00:27:30,975 There was the most popular T-shirt this summer was printed with multiple sunglasses. 474 00:27:31,082 --> 00:27:35,109 There's no reason to be doom and gloom and think that fashion is finished. 475 00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:37,620 Just reach back into your closet... 476 00:27:37,722 --> 00:27:39,622 I call it "the thin man." 477 00:27:39,724 --> 00:27:42,090 It's a serious way of dressing. 478 00:27:42,193 --> 00:27:46,459 They've got something going here, and I thought it was serious enough... 479 00:27:46,564 --> 00:27:48,361 for you to take a look at. 480 00:27:48,466 --> 00:27:50,866 Thank you very much, and I hope you enjoy it. 481 00:28:01,246 --> 00:28:02,645 Hmm. 482 00:28:02,747 --> 00:28:05,910 Okay, move it all over and take this woman and put her in the corner. 483 00:28:06,017 --> 00:28:07,416 Yeah, that's nice. 484 00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:08,747 I think it's all right. 485 00:28:08,853 --> 00:28:10,047 That's not bad. 486 00:28:10,155 --> 00:28:12,055 You want me to order your lunch today? 487 00:28:12,157 --> 00:28:14,717 I beg pardon? Do you want me to order you in lunch? 488 00:28:14,826 --> 00:28:16,953 Oh. Lunch. No. Soup, you know. 489 00:28:17,062 --> 00:28:18,359 I'm not thinking about lunch. 490 00:28:18,463 --> 00:28:19,794 No. I know what we need. 491 00:28:19,898 --> 00:28:22,560 What? Yeah. It's all right. No, leave everything alone. 492 00:28:22,667 --> 00:28:27,366 Uh, put her here, and put her over here. 493 00:28:27,472 --> 00:28:29,702 Yes. There it is. You got it. 494 00:28:29,808 --> 00:28:33,539 See, the hair, the same gesture, the wind. Wonderful. 495 00:28:33,645 --> 00:28:38,014 If you examine his pictures, he always is focused on some detail... 496 00:28:38,116 --> 00:28:44,055 or some narrative or conceptual thing that he's documenting. 497 00:28:46,124 --> 00:28:48,422 Do you like that we're dressed alike, Bill? 498 00:28:48,526 --> 00:28:50,858 I said, do you like it that we're dressed alike? Mm-hmm. 499 00:28:50,962 --> 00:28:52,930 We've been hanging around with each other for 60 years. 500 00:28:53,031 --> 00:28:55,090 That's great. We went to high school together. 501 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,168 That's great. Yeah. Terrific. 502 00:28:57,268 --> 00:28:58,394 And we never had a fight. 503 00:28:58,503 --> 00:29:00,130 Oh, good. That's better. 504 00:29:00,238 --> 00:29:02,798 That's better. There's enough people fighting. 505 00:29:02,907 --> 00:29:05,876 Watch these crazy cabdrivers. 506 00:29:05,977 --> 00:29:07,205 Okay, good-bye. 507 00:29:19,724 --> 00:29:24,024 So his photographs, rather than just paparazzi shots, 508 00:29:24,129 --> 00:29:30,295 are really evidence of what fashion is at any given moment in the world. 509 00:29:31,903 --> 00:29:37,341 His archive is really not just an encapsulation of fashion, 510 00:29:37,442 --> 00:29:38,875 but of New York life, 511 00:29:38,977 --> 00:29:41,775 and I think it's wonderful for fashion historians... 512 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,404 that this did happen... 513 00:29:43,515 --> 00:29:45,949 That there was this one individual... 514 00:29:46,050 --> 00:29:47,745 who was willing to dedicate his life... 515 00:29:47,852 --> 00:29:50,616 to this fascinating manifestation of culture. 516 00:30:17,849 --> 00:30:19,510 It's not photography. 517 00:30:19,617 --> 00:30:23,018 I mean, any real photographer would say he's a fraud. 518 00:30:23,121 --> 00:30:24,213 Well, they're right. 519 00:30:24,322 --> 00:30:28,588 I'm just about capturing what I see and documenting what I see. 520 00:30:28,693 --> 00:30:29,921 Ah! 521 00:30:31,462 --> 00:30:35,330 I mean, is he Horst? Put a bunch of flowers in front of you? 522 00:30:35,433 --> 00:30:39,130 No. He's not that, but that's not what he wants to be. 523 00:30:39,237 --> 00:30:41,637 I think he photographs life. 524 00:30:47,545 --> 00:30:53,916 The parallel between the emerging japanese designers in the early '80s... 525 00:30:54,018 --> 00:30:55,645 and the bag people in New York... 526 00:30:55,753 --> 00:30:58,153 was startling, astonishing. 527 00:30:58,256 --> 00:31:01,191 No one would talk about it or even show the pictures. 528 00:31:01,292 --> 00:31:03,954 And as time went on, 529 00:31:04,062 --> 00:31:06,826 the Japanese woman Rei Kawakubo admitted... 530 00:31:06,931 --> 00:31:08,558 that her inspiration... 531 00:31:08,666 --> 00:31:11,601 That when someone said, "Who do you think are the best-dressed women?" 532 00:31:11,703 --> 00:31:13,534 And she said, "The bag women in New York." 533 00:31:13,638 --> 00:31:16,368 Now whether she was being facetious or cynical... 534 00:31:16,474 --> 00:31:19,966 or a real artist and saying what she really thought, 535 00:31:20,078 --> 00:31:24,447 you know, we're too close to a very touchy subject. 536 00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:26,949 But as a historian, uh, 537 00:31:27,051 --> 00:31:32,045 what we see in New York in the 1980s in some areas... 538 00:31:32,156 --> 00:31:35,489 is close to medieval Europe. 539 00:31:35,593 --> 00:31:39,256 The shapes, I mean, of these people. 540 00:31:51,409 --> 00:31:53,468 Didn't someone give you your first camera? 541 00:31:53,578 --> 00:31:59,278 David Montgomery, an American photographer who lived and worked in London. 542 00:31:59,384 --> 00:32:03,411 We were there at his home with his wife and all for dinner one night. 543 00:32:03,521 --> 00:32:08,720 I said, "Gee, do you have an assistant who could take a picture for me tomorrow?" 544 00:32:08,826 --> 00:32:10,691 Some fashion shop, I mentioned. 545 00:32:10,795 --> 00:32:15,061 And... Yes, he sent one of his assistants out. 546 00:32:15,166 --> 00:32:18,192 And then when he came to New York about three months later, 547 00:32:18,303 --> 00:32:20,032 he said, "Here, I brought you something." 548 00:32:20,138 --> 00:32:24,438 He said, "Use it like a pen, like you take notes. 549 00:32:24,542 --> 00:32:25,975 Do it with a camera." 550 00:32:26,077 --> 00:32:29,672 A little Olympus half-frame. They were $39, 551 00:32:29,781 --> 00:32:34,309 and you got 72 pictures to a 36 roll of... 552 00:32:34,419 --> 00:32:38,321 Frame roll of film so I liked that even better. 553 00:32:38,423 --> 00:32:41,586 One of the interesting things about street style... 554 00:32:41,693 --> 00:32:45,129 is that it emerged at the same point... 555 00:32:45,229 --> 00:32:49,427 that, um, Bill got a camera. 556 00:32:50,535 --> 00:32:55,268 And by street style, I'm talking about fashions that really did emerge from the street. 557 00:32:55,373 --> 00:32:59,810 There was always a sense of a kind of quotidian world... 558 00:32:59,911 --> 00:33:04,871 that one sees in photographs that were done at the turn of the century, for example, 559 00:33:04,983 --> 00:33:09,010 by the Seeberger brothers, or different people who were documenting the bon monde, 560 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:15,457 but it wasn't really street style in that it wasn't, theoretically, "ordinary" people, 561 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,156 going about their business dressed in fascinating ways. 562 00:33:20,264 --> 00:33:26,134 That really begins to happen in the 1960s, and that is the moment which Bill begins. 563 00:33:26,237 --> 00:33:27,795 On an Easter Sunday, 564 00:33:27,905 --> 00:33:30,897 I came back here to get film, 565 00:33:31,009 --> 00:33:32,977 and the phone rang and I picked it up, 566 00:33:33,077 --> 00:33:40,950 and it was the Times fashion critic and editorial writer Charlotte Curtis, who I knew very well. 567 00:33:41,052 --> 00:33:46,490 And she said, "Bill, grab your cameras and get up to the Sheep Meadow as quick as you can. 568 00:33:46,591 --> 00:33:48,081 They're having a be-in." 569 00:33:48,192 --> 00:33:49,853 What the hell is a be-in? 570 00:33:49,961 --> 00:33:53,419 I jumped on my bike and went up to the Sheep Meadow, 571 00:33:53,531 --> 00:33:56,762 and there were thousands of kids. 572 00:33:56,868 --> 00:34:01,862 Oh! I mean, you just never saw anything like it. 573 00:34:01,973 --> 00:34:07,570 All the flower children, the hippies, everything, 574 00:34:07,678 --> 00:34:10,010 All up there, and it was a lovely day, 575 00:34:10,114 --> 00:34:13,777 and they were lying on the grass or the dirt or whatever it was, 576 00:34:13,885 --> 00:34:16,285 and they were dressed. 577 00:34:16,387 --> 00:34:17,854 It was marvelous, 578 00:34:17,955 --> 00:34:19,650 and that really did me in. 579 00:34:19,757 --> 00:34:21,782 From then on, that was it, kid. 580 00:34:21,893 --> 00:34:23,520 My Sundays and Saturdays... 581 00:34:23,628 --> 00:34:28,088 Saturdays down in SoHo, and Sundays up in the park... were completely taken. 582 00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:29,257 That was it. 583 00:34:29,367 --> 00:34:36,739 Course, as Antonio said, "Yep, and you photographed everything in black and white, 584 00:34:36,841 --> 00:34:38,934 and it was all about color." 585 00:34:41,012 --> 00:34:46,575 Course he was right, but I couldn't afford color film and developing... 586 00:34:46,684 --> 00:34:48,982 so it's in black and white. 587 00:34:50,455 --> 00:34:52,923 Oh, boy. Someday, it's all gonna fall down on me. 588 00:34:53,024 --> 00:34:55,424 I know. I don't even want to think about that. My God. 589 00:34:55,526 --> 00:34:59,622 If I disappear under a bunch of books, you'll know what... 590 00:34:59,730 --> 00:35:00,924 They're all fashion books. 591 00:35:01,032 --> 00:35:03,159 Imagine me having to move the end of June? 592 00:35:03,267 --> 00:35:07,636 I thought it was just open-end. That at some time, people would have to move out of here. 593 00:35:07,738 --> 00:35:11,174 Is there a specific date when you have to leave? Yeah, June 30th. So they say. 594 00:35:11,275 --> 00:35:13,766 Bill, that's like in two or three months. Hmm? 595 00:35:13,878 --> 00:35:18,338 The battle against a plan to evict artists who live and work at Carnegie Hall... 596 00:35:18,449 --> 00:35:20,917 was taken to the steps of city hall today. 597 00:35:21,018 --> 00:35:25,114 Over the years, the studios have seen the likes of Marlon Brando and Leonard Bernstein. 598 00:35:25,223 --> 00:35:29,421 Now the remaining tenants at Carnegie Hall are turning to the mayor for help. 599 00:35:29,527 --> 00:35:31,620 CBS 2's Andrew Kirtzman reports. 600 00:35:31,729 --> 00:35:33,492 Today, residents gathered at City Hall... 601 00:35:33,598 --> 00:35:36,260 with actor John Turturro as their champion. 602 00:35:36,367 --> 00:35:40,326 They want Mayor Bloomberg to step in, since the city owns Carnegie Hall. 603 00:35:40,438 --> 00:35:45,637 Not far away, the concert hall's artistic director held his own City Hall press conference. 604 00:35:45,743 --> 00:35:49,679 Their work... It is perfectly possible for them to do somewhere else. 605 00:35:49,780 --> 00:35:52,078 The work of Carnegie Hall, and the work of music... 606 00:35:52,183 --> 00:35:55,448 and our contribution to the city, has to come from Carnegie Hall. 607 00:35:55,553 --> 00:35:59,956 City hall sources tell Andrew that Mayor Bloomberg will not intervene in the matter. 608 00:36:00,057 --> 00:36:03,390 He reportedly feels it's a private, landlord-tenant dispute. 609 00:36:03,494 --> 00:36:06,691 There was no official comment from the mayor's office. 610 00:36:06,797 --> 00:36:08,992 The state of things now is, I don't want to say grim, 611 00:36:09,100 --> 00:36:11,398 but it feels like the studios of Carnegie Hall, 612 00:36:11,502 --> 00:36:14,767 the legendary studios, are on its last legs. 613 00:36:14,872 --> 00:36:17,705 There are six tenants remaining in the building, all rent control. 614 00:36:17,808 --> 00:36:21,574 Everything is turned into offices. Corporate offices. 615 00:36:21,679 --> 00:36:24,705 Beautiful artist studios like this have been divided up... 616 00:36:24,815 --> 00:36:27,545 with partitions and computers and telemarketers. 617 00:36:27,652 --> 00:36:31,019 Agnes de Mille's studio... This is the famous one, Ballet Arts, 618 00:36:31,122 --> 00:36:33,147 where she choreographed Oklahoma. 619 00:36:33,257 --> 00:36:37,284 Can you imagine how big that studio was? That is now a sea of telemarketers. 620 00:36:37,395 --> 00:36:39,056 For us it feels criminal. 621 00:36:39,163 --> 00:36:42,030 It feels immoral that these people, at this stage of their life, 622 00:36:42,133 --> 00:36:46,763 are going to spend their twilight years, fighting to hold on to these studios. 623 00:36:46,871 --> 00:36:52,332 That's why it's a treat to see Bill and Editta Sherman standing their ground... 624 00:36:52,443 --> 00:36:54,775 and being the last holdouts here of the Carnegie Studios. 625 00:36:55,346 --> 00:36:56,540 Editta Sherman! 626 00:36:57,949 --> 00:36:59,280 Come on in! 627 00:36:59,383 --> 00:37:00,714 What is this thing? 628 00:37:00,818 --> 00:37:03,013 How come they're not doing something on me? 629 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,588 We did something on you. This is all of you. 630 00:37:05,690 --> 00:37:07,385 We're doing something on all of you now. 631 00:37:07,491 --> 00:37:08,549 Well, why? 632 00:37:08,659 --> 00:37:12,459 Here I am. They don't even bring a cup of coffee. 633 00:37:12,563 --> 00:37:14,895 Well, I think they're not very civilized. 634 00:37:14,999 --> 00:37:16,432 Editta's always hungry. 635 00:37:17,935 --> 00:37:19,027 She's always hungry. 636 00:37:19,136 --> 00:37:21,627 You see? This is a crazy house. 637 00:37:21,739 --> 00:37:23,536 - That's so beautiful. - I know that. 638 00:37:23,641 --> 00:37:25,268 Suzette, how long have you known Editta? 639 00:37:25,376 --> 00:37:27,810 Were you here when I moved in in '49? 640 00:37:27,912 --> 00:37:29,402 No. You were here first. Forty-nine. 641 00:37:29,513 --> 00:37:31,174 I moved in here in the '40s. 642 00:37:31,282 --> 00:37:33,614 I guess I must have been here around 1940, huh? 643 00:37:33,718 --> 00:37:36,710 And Bill was making hats. He was a designer. 644 00:37:36,821 --> 00:37:39,483 In this building? Yes. Yes, he made hats. 645 00:37:39,590 --> 00:37:44,618 And I met him because I wanted to buy one of the hats. 646 00:37:44,729 --> 00:37:46,720 Did Suzette wear your hats? 647 00:37:46,831 --> 00:37:48,731 Yeah. I wear the orange one all the time. 648 00:37:48,833 --> 00:37:50,460 Suzette is very conservative. It's wearing out. 649 00:37:50,568 --> 00:37:53,264 An orange one. The orange beret. She had one. 650 00:37:53,371 --> 00:37:55,100 There's a picture of it around somewhere. 651 00:37:55,206 --> 00:37:56,298 Yeah, I have one downstairs... 652 00:37:56,407 --> 00:37:57,840 A painting of it, a big painting. 653 00:37:57,942 --> 00:37:59,170 Well, I have the hats here. 654 00:37:59,277 --> 00:38:03,543 One of them is a little beret, which is very cute. 655 00:38:03,648 --> 00:38:04,979 No, it's nothing. 656 00:38:05,082 --> 00:38:06,845 Don't show them the garbage. 657 00:38:06,951 --> 00:38:08,612 This is one of Bill's hats. 658 00:38:10,388 --> 00:38:13,824 Everybody looks at me on the street when I wear this hat. 659 00:38:20,398 --> 00:38:21,592 Like that one? 660 00:38:21,699 --> 00:38:24,497 My hat salon was on the 10th floor. 661 00:38:24,602 --> 00:38:29,505 Ginger Rogers used to come and joan Crawford. Marilyn Monroe was one, 662 00:38:29,607 --> 00:38:32,303 and I had no interest 'cause they weren't stylish. 663 00:38:32,410 --> 00:38:35,937 I think this is the way he has this. We have it? 664 00:38:36,047 --> 00:38:39,346 Maybe I should have something light on, like this. 665 00:38:40,418 --> 00:38:41,817 You like it? 666 00:38:41,919 --> 00:38:43,318 This all right? 667 00:38:44,255 --> 00:38:48,191 I know Bill Cunningham was a milliner, and he went under a label William J. 668 00:38:48,292 --> 00:38:52,922 You see, he didn't go... He went by William. 669 00:38:53,030 --> 00:38:54,497 There, his label. 670 00:38:54,598 --> 00:38:57,692 Actually, I've seen a few of his hats at F.I.T. At an exhibit. 671 00:38:57,802 --> 00:38:59,565 They were quite beautiful. 672 00:38:59,670 --> 00:39:03,299 That's what we have in common, also, that he used to see me on the street in hats. 673 00:39:06,877 --> 00:39:08,276 Well, I did the little trick. 674 00:39:08,379 --> 00:39:11,644 I put my hat in front of my face, and I changed hats. 675 00:39:11,749 --> 00:39:13,944 It's just, so it's not so blatant. 676 00:39:14,051 --> 00:39:16,918 It doesn't... It doesn't break the line. 677 00:39:17,021 --> 00:39:22,482 And that's how I put on hats when I'm in public. 678 00:39:22,593 --> 00:39:23,992 I love this little bowler. 679 00:39:24,095 --> 00:39:26,689 I feel like Mr. Peanut in this little bowler. 680 00:39:26,797 --> 00:39:29,493 It's kind of a different silhouette for me. 681 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:30,828 It's very Mr. Peanut. 682 00:39:33,471 --> 00:39:34,870 Do you like this one? 683 00:39:36,474 --> 00:39:37,873 Do you want the same fur? 684 00:39:42,179 --> 00:39:44,511 Do you like it that way or do you like it hanging? 685 00:39:44,615 --> 00:39:48,881 My friend Ray Solowinski on the eighth floor was a photographer, 686 00:39:48,986 --> 00:39:53,855 and he had the studio where Caruso made his first recordings. 687 00:39:53,958 --> 00:39:56,825 Marlon Brando had his studio here. 688 00:39:56,927 --> 00:39:59,452 Mrs. Sherman, no lipstick. 689 00:39:59,563 --> 00:40:00,655 Yes, I know. 690 00:40:00,765 --> 00:40:02,858 It doesn't go with that costume. Well... 691 00:40:02,967 --> 00:40:05,197 Do you have any funny stories... Yeah! 692 00:40:05,302 --> 00:40:08,066 Like about the three of you? About living in Carnegie? 693 00:40:08,172 --> 00:40:09,605 Yes. Oh, definitely. 694 00:40:09,707 --> 00:40:12,403 Sherman... Sherman was the centerpiece. 695 00:40:12,510 --> 00:40:14,205 It had always been her hobby. 696 00:40:14,311 --> 00:40:16,040 She was self-taught, 697 00:40:16,147 --> 00:40:21,881 and she danced to the music of the dying swan. 698 00:40:21,986 --> 00:40:25,149 Whose music is the dying... Oh, it was The Carnival of the Animals. 699 00:40:25,256 --> 00:40:26,280 Yes. 700 00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:27,755 You know how that goes. 701 00:40:27,858 --> 00:40:31,851 # Da, da, da, dee, da, da, da # 702 00:40:40,905 --> 00:40:43,271 We'd never seen anything like this in our lives. 703 00:40:43,374 --> 00:40:48,107 But Editta would turn off all the lights , and on the night of a full moon... 704 00:40:48,212 --> 00:40:50,373 the moon would come through those skylights... 705 00:40:50,481 --> 00:40:53,609 Editta would come out and do the dying swan. 706 00:40:53,717 --> 00:40:56,447 We were all mesmerized by that. 707 00:41:06,730 --> 00:41:08,391 Someone like Editta Sherman... 708 00:41:08,499 --> 00:41:13,232 She's married to the studio and her craft, and that's her life. 709 00:41:13,337 --> 00:41:17,637 And to extract her out of this environment is... 710 00:41:17,741 --> 00:41:21,643 That feels criminal to me because she's an artist who works in this environment, 711 00:41:21,745 --> 00:41:23,975 and it's because of this environment she does what she does. 712 00:41:24,081 --> 00:41:26,140 And it's true of a lot of the other tenants. 713 00:41:26,250 --> 00:41:31,711 So... to sort of displace them at this stage in their lives, 714 00:41:31,822 --> 00:41:36,020 into some sort of anonymous apartment is just, you know, I think, 715 00:41:36,126 --> 00:41:38,754 would be the beginning of the end for a lot of these tenants. 716 00:41:40,097 --> 00:41:43,498 Is it sad for you? They're going to relocate us in the neighborhood. 717 00:41:43,601 --> 00:41:47,765 So you're not worried... It'll be an apartment with a kitchen and a bathroom. 718 00:41:47,872 --> 00:41:50,238 Who the hell wants a kitchen and a bathroom? 719 00:41:50,341 --> 00:41:52,332 Mmm. Just more rooms to clean. 720 00:41:52,443 --> 00:41:55,173 Can you see one of these fancy apartment houses... 721 00:41:55,279 --> 00:41:58,339 where all they move in are filing cabinets? 722 00:41:59,917 --> 00:42:03,512 I'm not gonna worry. I have more fun going out and photographing. 723 00:42:03,621 --> 00:42:05,748 I suppose it'll bother me at the time, but so what? 724 00:42:05,856 --> 00:42:07,790 Inconvenient but otherwise... 725 00:42:07,892 --> 00:42:10,918 You can't interrupt your life with that nonsense. 726 00:42:12,596 --> 00:42:15,463 Psst! Psst! 727 00:42:21,972 --> 00:42:24,497 - Look at Veronica! - Bill, a hug. 728 00:42:24,608 --> 00:42:26,940 Hello child. My... 729 00:42:27,044 --> 00:42:28,671 The diamonds have gotten bigger. Right? 730 00:42:28,779 --> 00:42:30,246 And, of course... 731 00:42:30,347 --> 00:42:33,009 Now that they make them at Club Monaco, they get bigger and bigger. 732 00:42:33,117 --> 00:42:35,085 And, of course, they're all real. 733 00:42:35,185 --> 00:42:36,482 Yes. Absolutely. 734 00:42:36,587 --> 00:42:38,714 In someone's mind. 735 00:42:38,822 --> 00:42:43,987 Bill, this gentleman here in the velvet blazer straight ahead of you... 736 00:42:44,094 --> 00:42:46,358 is David Koch, who we're honoring tonight. 737 00:42:46,463 --> 00:42:47,930 Oh, I know him, yeah. 738 00:42:48,032 --> 00:42:49,795 I've never had an experience like this Bill. 739 00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:51,959 I'm kind of over the moon about it, you know? Good. Good. 740 00:42:52,069 --> 00:42:54,560 Enjoy it. My head is spinning. Well, you should be. 741 00:42:54,672 --> 00:42:57,732 "Evening Hours"documents , perhaps to some, simply parties... 742 00:42:57,841 --> 00:43:00,469 and the people who go to them, but really, what it's about... 743 00:43:00,578 --> 00:43:04,139 are the amazing connections people have in this city... 744 00:43:04,248 --> 00:43:06,716 with each other, with the various organizations... 745 00:43:06,817 --> 00:43:09,752 they think are important, with the people who they honor, 746 00:43:09,853 --> 00:43:11,684 and Bill really chronicles that. 747 00:43:11,789 --> 00:43:15,555 This is Karole Armitage. She has a dance company in New York. 748 00:43:15,659 --> 00:43:17,786 You have to come take pictures of my gala. 749 00:43:17,895 --> 00:43:20,591 We need you. 750 00:43:20,698 --> 00:43:24,259 Remind me. Have someone at your place send a postcard. Okay, I will. 751 00:43:24,368 --> 00:43:27,098 No formality. Just send me something in the mail. 752 00:43:27,204 --> 00:43:30,970 These are all the ones I couldn't get to last week. 753 00:43:31,575 --> 00:43:35,011 You know, you simply can't get involved in all of these things. It's... 754 00:43:35,112 --> 00:43:36,409 I used to try. 755 00:43:36,513 --> 00:43:40,916 This one I might go to, but I just don't know. The security could be so awful. 756 00:43:41,018 --> 00:43:43,953 First, I select a charity that will do the most good. 757 00:43:44,054 --> 00:43:47,615 Never looking at a guest list. As a matter of fact, people call up and say, 758 00:43:47,725 --> 00:43:50,956 "Well, this one's coming or that one. " I say, "Don't bother even telling me, 759 00:43:51,061 --> 00:43:53,586 and don't bother sending a guest list 'cause I'm not interested. " 760 00:43:53,697 --> 00:43:57,064 "The Queen of Sweden, the Queen of Jordan, 761 00:43:57,167 --> 00:43:58,794 their Royal Highnesses"... 762 00:43:58,902 --> 00:44:01,427 and, uh, blah, blah, blah, blah. 763 00:44:01,538 --> 00:44:06,441 I'm interested in what the charity does, and that's why the Times is there. 764 00:44:06,543 --> 00:44:08,010 It really is that way. 765 00:44:08,112 --> 00:44:11,138 People find it hard to believe. They think it's a society column. 766 00:44:11,248 --> 00:44:12,715 It's not at all. 767 00:44:12,816 --> 00:44:14,613 It never was meant to be. 768 00:44:14,718 --> 00:44:17,516 There was a magazine. It's now deceased. 769 00:44:17,621 --> 00:44:19,919 They had a headline... 770 00:44:20,024 --> 00:44:23,551 The best magazine title I've ever seen. 771 00:44:23,661 --> 00:44:25,754 "You went out last night. 772 00:44:25,863 --> 00:44:27,330 Nobody wrote about it. 773 00:44:27,431 --> 00:44:29,023 Do you exist?" 774 00:44:29,133 --> 00:44:31,067 Now that's... 775 00:44:31,168 --> 00:44:34,569 That's the frame of mind that a lot of people got caught up in. 776 00:44:34,672 --> 00:44:38,005 You kids print your names for me. Where's it gonna be? Where's our picture gonna be? 777 00:44:38,108 --> 00:44:39,735 He's New York Times. Oh. 778 00:44:39,843 --> 00:44:42,812 The Times have a little benefit page. It's small stuff. 779 00:44:42,913 --> 00:44:44,073 We gotta be in it. Unimportant. 780 00:44:44,181 --> 00:44:45,409 We're pretty good-looking people. 781 00:44:45,516 --> 00:44:47,245 Yeah. That's what I thought. 782 00:44:47,351 --> 00:44:49,319 New York is about status. 783 00:44:49,420 --> 00:44:51,251 That's all it's about. 784 00:44:51,355 --> 00:44:55,348 There is... This is not a pleasant city to live in, 785 00:44:55,459 --> 00:45:01,659 aside from the fact that there are a lot of people, uh, here who are ambitious. 786 00:45:01,765 --> 00:45:05,565 People are very pushy socially in New York, 787 00:45:05,669 --> 00:45:07,603 but they don't wave a flag. 788 00:45:07,705 --> 00:45:10,003 They just move in the right direction. 789 00:45:10,107 --> 00:45:12,940 The right direction is toward Bill Cunningham's camera. 790 00:45:13,043 --> 00:45:15,705 I don't think that Bill considers himself a social arbiter. 791 00:45:15,813 --> 00:45:20,580 I really don't consider him as being someone who gets a lift out of being with these people. 792 00:45:22,519 --> 00:45:24,214 Yeah, that's it! Yeah. 793 00:45:24,321 --> 00:45:25,982 That's... That's the way. 794 00:45:26,090 --> 00:45:27,921 Yeah, it's a nice expression. 795 00:45:28,025 --> 00:45:30,289 None of this stiff stuff. 796 00:45:30,394 --> 00:45:33,124 You caught us napping. I get that with the benefactors up there. 797 00:45:33,230 --> 00:45:35,357 How you doing today there? Okay, kid. 798 00:45:35,466 --> 00:45:37,127 There's a little fish in the back. 799 00:45:37,234 --> 00:45:39,930 Would they bring you some fish over to the other side? 800 00:45:40,037 --> 00:45:41,698 Oh, no. I don't want anything. Are you sure? 801 00:45:41,805 --> 00:45:43,432 Oh, yeah. I eat with my eyes. 802 00:45:43,540 --> 00:45:46,373 Yeah, I know, but you need to keep your body up too. 803 00:45:46,477 --> 00:45:49,275 Hmm? You won't let me get you a little plate? 804 00:45:49,379 --> 00:45:51,176 Oh, no. No, thank you, Mary. 805 00:45:51,281 --> 00:45:52,612 Nobody would see you. 806 00:45:52,716 --> 00:45:55,344 No. Thank you, child. Okay. 807 00:45:55,452 --> 00:45:58,285 A lot of people think it's a little peculiar... 808 00:45:58,388 --> 00:46:01,255 that I never have a drink or something like that, 809 00:46:01,358 --> 00:46:03,155 but I made up my mind... 810 00:46:03,260 --> 00:46:04,727 Oh, at Women's Wear. 811 00:46:04,828 --> 00:46:07,296 People were always wining and dining you, 812 00:46:07,397 --> 00:46:10,560 and I thought, "Well, I'm not into that." 813 00:46:10,667 --> 00:46:14,569 I'm there just to report for the Times. 814 00:46:14,671 --> 00:46:16,400 I'm not there to be wined and dined, 815 00:46:16,507 --> 00:46:19,806 and I certainly wouldn't compromise the Times, 816 00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:22,003 so I made up my mind at that point... 817 00:46:22,112 --> 00:46:24,342 I wouldn't take even a glass of water. 818 00:46:24,448 --> 00:46:28,145 I have something to eat before I go to work, and that's it. 819 00:46:28,252 --> 00:46:29,219 Period. 820 00:46:29,319 --> 00:46:34,518 It's keeping a distance from what you're doing, so you can be more objective. 821 00:46:34,625 --> 00:46:36,855 Objective over what, I don't know, 822 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,054 but, uh, it works for me. 823 00:46:40,297 --> 00:46:45,701 New York society becomes harder and harder to define. 824 00:46:45,803 --> 00:46:47,430 The latest definition... 825 00:46:47,538 --> 00:46:51,030 is everything from the girls who smile for party pictures... 826 00:46:51,141 --> 00:46:52,972 to the old WASPs. 827 00:46:53,076 --> 00:46:55,772 He loves, like, an old, stylish gal. 828 00:46:55,879 --> 00:46:58,439 Come on. He loves an old, stylish gal. 829 00:46:58,549 --> 00:47:00,380 And they all love him. 830 00:47:00,484 --> 00:47:03,112 That's why I think... I don't know the history of Bill, 831 00:47:03,220 --> 00:47:06,519 but we suspected that there was some kind of society connection with Bill, 832 00:47:06,623 --> 00:47:09,524 because he also felt as comfortable with Lady Astor, 833 00:47:09,626 --> 00:47:11,651 and he knew all those people. 834 00:47:11,762 --> 00:47:13,286 I'm David Rockefeller. William Astor. 835 00:47:13,397 --> 00:47:15,058 You look marvelous indeed. 836 00:47:15,165 --> 00:47:20,228 Isn't that nice? When you think of all that's going on, that they came tonight? 837 00:47:20,337 --> 00:47:22,362 Why are you not making peace? 838 00:47:22,472 --> 00:47:24,736 Hello, Bill. Come with me. 839 00:47:24,842 --> 00:47:28,869 Brooke Astor... Someone like that is a rarity. 840 00:47:28,979 --> 00:47:32,574 She had such a human touch, a correctness, about her, 841 00:47:32,683 --> 00:47:34,651 but not in a stuffed-shirt way. 842 00:47:34,751 --> 00:47:36,742 She immediately made people feel at ease. 843 00:47:36,854 --> 00:47:41,621 She believed not in exclusion, but inclusion. 844 00:47:41,725 --> 00:47:43,693 We're all the same. We all have the same problems. 845 00:47:43,794 --> 00:47:47,457 We all have family members that are whatever the hell it is. 846 00:47:47,564 --> 00:47:50,692 I've loved and admired my mother... 847 00:47:50,801 --> 00:47:53,463 for more than three-quarters of a century. 848 00:47:54,671 --> 00:47:56,662 Let's all toast to my mother, 849 00:47:56,773 --> 00:48:00,209 who was born, not only on the 30th of March, 850 00:48:00,310 --> 00:48:04,337 but in 1902, the 30th of March was Easter Day. 851 00:48:04,448 --> 00:48:10,614 Mrs. Astor represented some timeless sense of style and elegance... 852 00:48:10,721 --> 00:48:12,313 and philanthropy... 853 00:48:12,422 --> 00:48:14,686 and doing the right thing. 854 00:48:14,791 --> 00:48:18,591 I really am not so extraordinary. 855 00:48:18,695 --> 00:48:24,031 I'm just an ordinary person who has had a very good life... 856 00:48:24,134 --> 00:48:27,626 and is very near... and it is getting very near to the end. 857 00:48:27,738 --> 00:48:30,036 And I've had a wonderful time. 858 00:48:30,140 --> 00:48:32,404 You've all really been so sweet. 859 00:48:32,509 --> 00:48:35,273 I think it was impossible not to admire her. 860 00:48:35,379 --> 00:48:37,973 They became really very close friends. 861 00:48:38,081 --> 00:48:41,050 And he did chronicle her every single move. 862 00:48:41,151 --> 00:48:45,588 It was with a genuine kindness and affection, and he protected her. 863 00:48:45,689 --> 00:48:48,419 To the very end they were great friends. 864 00:48:48,525 --> 00:48:51,255 I'm guessing... 865 00:48:51,361 --> 00:48:55,525 that he might actually have come from a wealthy family because of that, 866 00:48:55,632 --> 00:48:59,591 and because only people who come from wealth can live the way he lives. 867 00:48:59,703 --> 00:49:02,103 So that's always been my assumption, 868 00:49:02,205 --> 00:49:05,140 but I've actually never discussed it with him. 869 00:49:13,350 --> 00:49:16,183 About ten years ago , I was sitting outside... 870 00:49:16,286 --> 00:49:17,913 downtown at a restaurant, 871 00:49:18,021 --> 00:49:21,650 and it must have been 11 o'clock at night. 872 00:49:21,758 --> 00:49:24,921 And all of a sudden, there goes Bill Cunningham on his bike. 873 00:49:25,028 --> 00:49:31,399 I thought, "Oh, I want to say hello," but he was gone in a fleeting moment. 874 00:49:31,501 --> 00:49:35,699 And all I could see was his blue coat and the bike go by. 875 00:49:35,806 --> 00:49:37,535 And I knew where he was headed. 876 00:49:37,641 --> 00:49:39,609 He goes to many events in one evening. 877 00:49:39,710 --> 00:49:41,678 He's in one event uptown, 878 00:49:41,778 --> 00:49:43,643 and he's downtown at another event. 879 00:49:43,747 --> 00:49:47,274 It's rigorous work. 880 00:49:49,987 --> 00:49:52,455 This is too early to be at one of these downtown parties. 881 00:49:52,556 --> 00:49:55,525 We're the only ones here. Bill's gonna be here for five minutes and leave. 882 00:49:57,995 --> 00:49:59,758 Big smiles. Come on, Annie! 883 00:50:01,231 --> 00:50:02,391 Beautiful, guys. 884 00:50:02,499 --> 00:50:04,660 That's a classic Schwinn. 885 00:50:04,768 --> 00:50:06,395 Someone gave it to me. 886 00:50:06,503 --> 00:50:09,028 That's my 29th. Wonderful. 887 00:50:09,139 --> 00:50:11,801 I've had 28 stolen. 888 00:50:11,908 --> 00:50:13,273 28 stolen bikes? 889 00:50:13,377 --> 00:50:15,004 Yeah. That's the 29th. 890 00:50:15,112 --> 00:50:17,774 Oh, my goodness, the kids are all here. 891 00:50:17,881 --> 00:50:21,248 The kids are here. I came out from L.A. With Annie. 892 00:50:21,351 --> 00:50:24,252 Oh, how wonderful. She's ensconced down there. 893 00:50:24,354 --> 00:50:26,288 Oh, aren't you kids beautiful? Look at you. 894 00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:28,517 "You kids." Never changes. 895 00:50:28,625 --> 00:50:30,650 Look at you two kids. You gonna take? 896 00:50:30,761 --> 00:50:32,092 Yes. Of us? 897 00:50:32,195 --> 00:50:35,164 Yes. In basic black? Are you kidding? 898 00:50:36,133 --> 00:50:38,829 A very special one too. Yes. 899 00:50:43,140 --> 00:50:45,165 Bill is a true egalitarian. 900 00:50:45,275 --> 00:50:49,541 However, that doesn't mean he isn't aware of the nuances... 901 00:50:49,646 --> 00:50:53,377 of cultural division and hierarchies. 902 00:50:53,483 --> 00:50:55,508 He just treats it all the same. 903 00:50:55,619 --> 00:50:57,610 He really is the person who, 904 00:50:57,721 --> 00:50:59,552 whether you're a bicycle messenger, 905 00:50:59,656 --> 00:51:03,183 a woman who's breaking the glass ceiling on Wall Street, 906 00:51:03,293 --> 00:51:05,727 a socialite in New York... 907 00:51:05,829 --> 00:51:09,458 who's an up-and-comer and part of nouvelle society, 908 00:51:09,566 --> 00:51:12,228 or an old Dutch or German family... 909 00:51:12,335 --> 00:51:17,739 that is still in the last phases of its denouement in Newport... 910 00:51:17,841 --> 00:51:19,138 He doesn't care. 911 00:51:19,242 --> 00:51:24,737 It's all, for him, the huge variety of life in New York City. 912 00:51:24,848 --> 00:51:26,611 When was the first time Bill photographed you? 913 00:51:26,716 --> 00:51:29,651 In 1986, and the Times said... 914 00:51:29,753 --> 00:51:32,722 He came to me the next week and he said, "I'm so disappointed. 915 00:51:32,823 --> 00:51:36,759 The Times said we can't put you in because you're wearing a dress." 916 00:51:36,860 --> 00:51:40,261 And he said, "But I'm going to keep trying to get you in." 917 00:51:40,363 --> 00:51:42,194 And I was like, "What the hell? 918 00:51:42,299 --> 00:51:45,860 I'm wearing a pair of workman's boots with that dress." 919 00:51:45,969 --> 00:51:50,269 And he said, "I know Kenny, but they won't put you in, but I'm trying." 920 00:51:50,373 --> 00:51:52,933 And now, they put everything in. 921 00:51:53,043 --> 00:51:56,206 He's such a maverick. Really a maverick. 922 00:51:56,313 --> 00:51:58,804 He means so much to people like us. Really. 923 00:51:58,915 --> 00:52:01,406 He's an artist. 924 00:52:01,518 --> 00:52:02,815 We'll talk. 925 00:52:31,715 --> 00:52:33,615 You have two choices. 926 00:52:33,717 --> 00:52:36,845 You can either have Jon Bon Jovi give you the welcoming remarks... 927 00:52:36,953 --> 00:52:38,580 and me doing the singing... 928 00:52:38,688 --> 00:52:40,155 Or the reverse. 929 00:52:40,257 --> 00:52:43,385 Seriously, this is one of the great jewels of New York. 930 00:52:43,493 --> 00:52:45,961 It is great for the economy of this city. 931 00:52:46,062 --> 00:52:48,724 It is great for the education of our kids. 932 00:52:48,832 --> 00:52:50,459 It is great for everybody. 933 00:52:50,567 --> 00:52:55,197 So you have a great evening tonight, and thank you for all you're doing. 934 00:52:55,305 --> 00:52:58,206 Thank you for your support of this wonderful museum. God bless. 935 00:53:29,806 --> 00:53:31,774 That's why I was going up with it. 936 00:53:31,875 --> 00:53:34,275 Yes, like that. Yeah. That's nice. 937 00:53:34,377 --> 00:53:38,245 Now let's put this one, a single picture party, right in here. 938 00:53:38,348 --> 00:53:41,374 Put this one down at the bottom, this party, and put this one above it. 939 00:53:41,484 --> 00:53:42,451 We'll see. We'll just... 940 00:53:42,552 --> 00:53:45,953 Just put it on. Stop your antics. 941 00:53:46,056 --> 00:53:47,523 Put it up there. 942 00:53:51,628 --> 00:53:53,095 Damn you kids! 943 00:53:53,196 --> 00:53:56,256 I love this one. Scientists. 944 00:53:56,366 --> 00:53:59,130 He must be quite a jokester. 945 00:53:59,236 --> 00:54:01,636 He's a Nobel laureate and so forth, 946 00:54:01,738 --> 00:54:04,070 and he's teasing the other scientist. 947 00:54:04,174 --> 00:54:07,234 Look at this beautiful child, but we have no room for her. 948 00:54:07,344 --> 00:54:09,073 I think we need someone new, young. 949 00:54:09,179 --> 00:54:12,012 I didn't know who she was. Just, I liked the way she looked. 950 00:54:12,115 --> 00:54:13,878 The dress is terrific. 951 00:54:13,984 --> 00:54:17,181 Asymmetric on the bias. You never see that. 952 00:54:17,287 --> 00:54:21,223 And it's not a model. That's a private person that brought their own clothes. 953 00:54:21,324 --> 00:54:24,191 I have the most beautiful picture of Mrs. Bass. 954 00:54:24,294 --> 00:54:26,819 She looks like a John Singer Sargent portrait. 955 00:54:26,930 --> 00:54:30,297 A what? Absolutely ravishing. 956 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:35,702 Except, she's got a modesty bib filling in the V-neckline. 957 00:54:35,805 --> 00:54:38,365 What a crime. That should have been... 958 00:54:38,475 --> 00:54:40,966 I'm sure the dressmaker got timid. 959 00:54:41,077 --> 00:54:42,544 You know, to fill it. 960 00:54:42,646 --> 00:54:45,080 Isn't that a shame? It should have been left open. 961 00:54:45,181 --> 00:54:47,240 Look how elegant she is. Oh, yeah. 962 00:54:47,350 --> 00:54:49,318 Oh. That woman is amazing. 963 00:54:49,419 --> 00:54:52,752 Uh, wasn't she in last week? No. No. 964 00:54:53,356 --> 00:54:56,348 Oh, no, you don't cut her arms. Are you crazed? 965 00:54:56,459 --> 00:54:58,689 Well, excuse me. Keep her hands in. 966 00:54:58,795 --> 00:55:01,263 My God, John. Where's your sensitivity? 967 00:55:01,364 --> 00:55:04,333 I mean, she's probably the most elegant woman, 968 00:55:04,434 --> 00:55:07,267 or one of the most elegant women, in New York. 969 00:55:07,370 --> 00:55:10,134 Oh, you wouldn't know. What am I talking to you about that stuff? 970 00:55:11,441 --> 00:55:14,535 You're a lumberjack, and here I'm talking dresses to you. 971 00:55:14,644 --> 00:55:19,013 Are you talking to me? I was completely ignoring you all that time. 972 00:55:24,220 --> 00:55:25,687 Oh! Now stop it. 973 00:55:25,789 --> 00:55:28,314 Turn that damn thing off. 974 00:55:28,425 --> 00:55:31,189 Bill, we're gonna hound you. We're gonna hound you. 975 00:55:31,294 --> 00:55:34,024 You've already done that. Now stop it. 976 00:55:34,130 --> 00:55:37,293 These guys are tough as nails. They think they're taking over. 977 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,391 They're not taking over. We're not. 978 00:55:39,502 --> 00:55:41,527 I got news for them. Yeah. 979 00:55:44,107 --> 00:55:49,409 These jerks think they're going to follow me to Paris. 980 00:55:49,512 --> 00:55:51,070 Who are they kidding? 981 00:55:51,181 --> 00:55:54,048 We are. No, you're not. 982 00:56:10,266 --> 00:56:13,429 I didn't get to Paris till 1951. 983 00:56:18,708 --> 00:56:23,077 I was stationed in the southwest of France. 984 00:56:23,179 --> 00:56:24,840 I'd take the train up to Paris. 985 00:56:24,948 --> 00:56:27,917 Of course, it was very different from today. 986 00:56:28,017 --> 00:56:30,918 They were only couture houses. 987 00:56:34,657 --> 00:56:39,959 They were clothes that gave women enormous security... 988 00:56:40,063 --> 00:56:43,396 through the elegance of cut and taste and refinement. 989 00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:45,695 There was nothing frivolous about them. 990 00:57:01,151 --> 00:57:03,278 You see, when I began in the '40s, 991 00:57:03,386 --> 00:57:05,820 there were no photographers at fashion shows. 992 00:57:05,922 --> 00:57:09,585 What the fashion houses had to do was take their own photographs... 993 00:57:09,692 --> 00:57:13,788 and bring them to the editors to select something. 994 00:57:13,897 --> 00:57:18,129 Then the ready-to-wear came into existence in the... 995 00:57:18,234 --> 00:57:24,298 in the end of the '60s, beginning of the '70s, very slowly. 996 00:57:24,407 --> 00:57:26,807 At Saint Laurent's first ready-to-wear show, 997 00:57:26,910 --> 00:57:31,279 I think there were maybe myself, and maybe a Vogue photographer. 998 00:57:31,381 --> 00:57:35,579 I mean, it didn't have this fanatic following that it has now... 999 00:57:35,685 --> 00:57:39,917 of all these manufacturers and people that just would kill to get in... 1000 00:57:40,023 --> 00:57:44,119 because they need to steal ideas for their own work. 1001 00:57:45,061 --> 00:57:49,020 So they let Paris be the laboratory of ideas. 1002 00:57:54,304 --> 00:57:57,831 The press entrance is that way, so you have to ask them, unfortunately. 1003 00:58:01,578 --> 00:58:03,569 Nikki, should we go... Just one person, huh? 1004 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,514 Oh. 1005 00:58:07,617 --> 00:58:11,451 Nikki, um, I'll see you later. 1006 00:58:19,329 --> 00:58:21,024 Looking at these collections, 1007 00:58:21,130 --> 00:58:25,123 I look for what I think a woman could wear, would wear, 1008 00:58:25,235 --> 00:58:28,261 and whether it would fit a human body, 1009 00:58:28,371 --> 00:58:29,838 other than the model. 1010 00:58:29,939 --> 00:58:31,406 I'm very attuned to that. 1011 00:58:31,508 --> 00:58:34,068 If it isn't something a woman could wear, I have no interest in it. 1012 00:58:34,177 --> 00:58:36,907 I've watched Bill photograph from the front row, 1013 00:58:37,013 --> 00:58:41,074 and you can see when the camera goes up or the camera stays down. 1014 00:58:41,184 --> 00:58:43,175 And he's very opinionated. 1015 00:58:43,286 --> 00:58:45,811 He does not applaud everyone. 1016 00:58:45,922 --> 00:58:47,787 He knows what's innovative... 1017 00:58:47,891 --> 00:58:50,052 and what's borrowed or copied. 1018 00:58:50,159 --> 00:58:54,960 He knows if he sees someone, you know , putting something on a runway... 1019 00:58:55,064 --> 00:58:57,032 if it was done, like, 30 years before. 1020 00:58:57,133 --> 00:58:59,192 And so he would pull it up. 1021 00:58:59,302 --> 00:59:02,203 Thirty years before, and he'd show the picture and... 1022 00:59:02,305 --> 00:59:05,706 I mean, he got... Designers would be devastated. 1023 00:59:05,808 --> 00:59:08,038 He once did that with Isaac Mizrahi. He pulled up a Geoffrey Beene... 1024 00:59:08,144 --> 00:59:10,510 from like five years before or something, 1025 00:59:10,613 --> 00:59:13,844 and Isaac was so mad, and even Geoffrey Beene, I think, got mad at Isaac. 1026 00:59:13,950 --> 00:59:17,044 You know, it was like he would definitely start trouble. 1027 00:59:17,153 --> 00:59:19,121 Not on purpose, but he would do... 1028 00:59:19,222 --> 00:59:22,953 He would definitely, like, point out, like, if he saw something, he'd call it. 1029 00:59:27,997 --> 00:59:30,397 The photographers at the shows, they're all in the back, 1030 00:59:30,500 --> 00:59:34,163 so they get a clear photograph with nothing disturbing. 1031 00:59:34,270 --> 00:59:36,135 They get a plain wall. It's all fine. 1032 00:59:36,239 --> 00:59:38,366 But they're getting everything straight on. 1033 00:59:38,474 --> 00:59:40,533 Well, fashion's not that way. 1034 00:59:40,643 --> 00:59:46,309 You have to know in an instant, "Oh, the angle is this, and the detail is that. " 1035 00:59:46,416 --> 00:59:47,883 And it's not straight on. 1036 00:59:47,984 --> 00:59:52,512 I just like it on the side, so I can get a front, a back, a profile... 1037 00:59:52,622 --> 00:59:54,317 or hopefully. 1038 00:59:54,424 --> 00:59:57,621 Most of the time I miss it, but I try. 1039 00:59:57,727 --> 01:00:00,958 #I hear Jerusalem bells are ringing # 1040 01:00:01,064 --> 01:00:04,500 #Roman cavalry choirs are singing # 1041 01:00:04,601 --> 01:00:07,934 #Be my mirror, my sword and shield # 1042 01:00:08,037 --> 01:00:11,734 #My missionaries in a foreign field # 1043 01:00:11,841 --> 01:00:14,901 #For some reason I can't explain # 1044 01:00:15,011 --> 01:00:21,644 #Once you go there was never, never an honest word # 1045 01:00:21,751 --> 01:00:25,346 #And that was when I ruled the world ## 1046 01:00:25,455 --> 01:00:29,482 The wider world that perceives fashion as a... 1047 01:00:29,592 --> 01:00:32,060 sometimes a frivolity that should be done away with... 1048 01:00:32,161 --> 01:00:38,566 in the face of social upheavals and problems that are enormous... 1049 01:00:38,668 --> 01:00:42,695 The point is, in fact, that fashion... 1050 01:00:44,641 --> 01:00:45,608 Um... 1051 01:00:47,777 --> 01:00:49,506 You know, in point of fact, 1052 01:00:49,612 --> 01:00:54,640 it's the armor to survive the reality of everyday life. 1053 01:00:54,751 --> 01:00:56,548 I don't think you could do away with it. 1054 01:00:56,653 --> 01:00:59,121 It would be like doing away with civilization. 1055 01:00:59,222 --> 01:01:01,053 You know, l... That's what I think. 1056 01:01:01,157 --> 01:01:04,217 I mean, a lot of people think "He's a crazy fanatic," you know. 1057 01:01:04,327 --> 01:01:07,592 At any rate, that's what I think about it. 1058 01:01:11,134 --> 01:01:14,126 How is it different shooting here than in New York? 1059 01:01:14,237 --> 01:01:17,866 Fashion week here is exceptional. 1060 01:01:17,974 --> 01:01:19,441 Why? 1061 01:01:19,542 --> 01:01:21,772 It educates the eye. 1062 01:01:21,878 --> 01:01:23,345 Paris? 1063 01:01:24,380 --> 01:01:26,143 That's right. That's really... 1064 01:01:26,249 --> 01:01:28,911 I come for the fashion, but that's what happens. 1065 01:01:29,018 --> 01:01:32,454 Every six months it's like going to school. 1066 01:01:32,555 --> 01:01:35,854 You have to go back and reeducate the eye. 1067 01:01:38,227 --> 01:01:40,218 You couldn't take me to a fine restaurant. 1068 01:01:43,299 --> 01:01:45,392 So you don't care about food? No. 1069 01:01:45,501 --> 01:01:47,469 Really? Oh, no, no. 1070 01:01:47,570 --> 01:01:49,128 Do you listen to music? 1071 01:01:49,238 --> 01:01:54,403 I used to go to concerts here, in the churches and the opera. 1072 01:01:54,510 --> 01:01:56,637 But that stopped years ago. 1073 01:01:56,746 --> 01:01:58,577 There's no time. Yeah, sure. 1074 01:01:58,681 --> 01:02:01,309 Right. 1075 01:02:01,417 --> 01:02:05,148 I mean, if I'm lucky I get to church on Sunday. 1076 01:02:05,254 --> 01:02:08,348 That's where I hear the music. Really? You go to church to hear the music? 1077 01:02:08,458 --> 01:02:10,323 Do you go to church? Yeah. 1078 01:02:10,426 --> 01:02:11,450 Every Sunday? Yeah. 1079 01:02:11,561 --> 01:02:12,550 Really? 1080 01:02:17,233 --> 01:02:19,633 It's no big deal. 1081 01:02:19,736 --> 01:02:22,603 I go and repent. 1082 01:02:33,883 --> 01:02:37,375 And you see all the paparazzi going crazy? Oh, yeah. 1083 01:02:37,487 --> 01:02:39,955 Over Catherine Denueve. 1084 01:02:40,056 --> 01:02:42,923 I can hear people say, "He's gotta be the dumbest one in the crowd. 1085 01:02:43,025 --> 01:02:44,492 He didn't bother photographing her. " 1086 01:02:44,594 --> 01:02:46,152 Well, she wasn't wearing anything interesting. 1087 01:02:46,262 --> 01:02:47,923 I'm interested in clothes. 1088 01:02:48,030 --> 01:02:50,760 And even if I knew them, knew who they were, and usually I don't, 1089 01:02:50,867 --> 01:02:53,961 I don't go to the movies much and I've never owned television. 1090 01:02:55,004 --> 01:02:57,598 I'd never be a paparazzi. I couldn't be. 1091 01:02:57,707 --> 01:03:01,734 To torment people and chase them... Oh, that I couldn't do. I wouldn't do. 1092 01:03:01,844 --> 01:03:05,143 I think it has to be done just discreetly and quietly. 1093 01:03:05,248 --> 01:03:07,512 "Invisible,"I think, is the word. 1094 01:03:12,421 --> 01:03:17,188 This is the greatest subject in all of Europe... Madame Piaggi. 1095 01:03:17,293 --> 01:03:19,193 C'est le video The New York Times. 1096 01:03:19,295 --> 01:03:20,353 Yeah, I know. 1097 01:03:20,463 --> 01:03:24,263 The pumps. I don't like them on me, but it's good on her. 1098 01:03:24,967 --> 01:03:26,935 When did he first photograph you? 1099 01:03:27,036 --> 01:03:29,266 Uh, in the '70s. 1100 01:03:29,372 --> 01:03:33,001 I photographed her outside Saint Laurent's couture show, 1101 01:03:33,109 --> 01:03:37,512 mixed in with all the other women that were trying to be so chic with their pantsuits. 1102 01:03:37,613 --> 01:03:39,513 It was a revelation. 1103 01:03:39,615 --> 01:03:41,640 I mean, I never saw anyone like her. 1104 01:03:41,751 --> 01:03:44,549 I think she's a poet with clothes. 1105 01:03:44,654 --> 01:03:46,815 But a very fine poet. 1106 01:03:46,923 --> 01:03:48,982 Oh, my God, I wouldn't miss her. 1107 01:03:49,091 --> 01:03:50,718 To me, that's the reason to go to Paris. 1108 01:03:50,827 --> 01:03:55,890 I mean, I just like fashion as an art form of dressing the body. 1109 01:03:55,998 --> 01:04:00,799 If we all went out looking like a slob like me, it would be a pretty dreary world. 1110 01:04:00,903 --> 01:04:03,667 No, see, I think Bill is very stylish. 1111 01:04:03,773 --> 01:04:05,866 He has a look. It's individual. 1112 01:04:05,975 --> 01:04:07,909 It's Bill... the blue smock. 1113 01:04:08,010 --> 01:04:11,104 The jacket is functional 'cause it has all the pockets. Right. 1114 01:04:11,214 --> 01:04:12,841 And you can launder it. 1115 01:04:12,949 --> 01:04:14,780 And I thought the color was nice. 1116 01:04:16,853 --> 01:04:21,313 Originally, when I started to buy them at the Bazar de L'Hotel de Ville, 1117 01:04:21,424 --> 01:04:23,221 they were $20. 1118 01:04:23,326 --> 01:04:27,820 And they were the ones that the street sweepers wore. 1119 01:04:27,930 --> 01:04:30,990 They came in black and white and blue. 1120 01:04:31,100 --> 01:04:33,568 And, you see, with the cameras, 1121 01:04:33,669 --> 01:04:37,469 the jackets all get torn here and ruined. 1122 01:04:37,573 --> 01:04:40,406 So that was another thing. 1123 01:04:40,509 --> 01:04:43,706 Why have an expensive, beautiful jacket... 1124 01:04:43,813 --> 01:04:47,544 and wear it with all the cameras rubbing on it and wreck it? 1125 01:04:47,650 --> 01:04:51,518 I mean, I can't imagine such wastefulness. 1126 01:04:53,723 --> 01:04:56,590 Oh, don't mind me. These are my... 1127 01:04:56,692 --> 01:04:59,058 I have to take every morning my heart pills. 1128 01:04:59,161 --> 01:05:02,460 Keep the heart going. 1129 01:05:06,369 --> 01:05:10,863 This would be an upscale French caf� for me. Oh, really? 1130 01:05:10,973 --> 01:05:12,440 Not... 1131 01:05:15,745 --> 01:05:18,578 Not terribly upscale, but upscale. 1132 01:05:18,681 --> 01:05:22,014 I like very simple, down-to-earth, basic things. 1133 01:05:22,118 --> 01:05:24,177 You know, I don't like anything fancy. 1134 01:05:24,287 --> 01:05:26,812 And of course, I suppose that's such a contradiction. Well, exactly. 1135 01:05:26,923 --> 01:05:29,517 Here I love all these women dressed up in all these... 1136 01:05:31,394 --> 01:05:34,056 But I don't mind it. L... 1137 01:05:34,163 --> 01:05:36,825 What other people do doesn't concern me. 1138 01:05:36,933 --> 01:05:38,730 It's just not my interest. 1139 01:05:38,834 --> 01:05:41,098 Tell me something about your family. 1140 01:05:41,203 --> 01:05:43,171 Oh, my family's just working-class people. 1141 01:05:43,272 --> 01:05:46,571 Just marvelous, normal, hardworking people. 1142 01:05:46,676 --> 01:05:48,234 And Catholic people. 1143 01:05:48,344 --> 01:05:53,247 I think I have, uh, half and half. 1144 01:05:53,349 --> 01:05:56,876 When I'm outgoing, I guess I'm my dad. 1145 01:05:56,986 --> 01:06:02,652 And when I'm... uptight you'd call it now, or whatever you call it, 1146 01:06:02,758 --> 01:06:05,488 uh, I'd be definitely my mother. 1147 01:06:05,594 --> 01:06:07,721 What does your family think of what you do? 1148 01:06:07,830 --> 01:06:09,730 No one ever said anything about it, 1149 01:06:09,832 --> 01:06:12,528 but I think in years, in retrospect... 1150 01:06:12,635 --> 01:06:14,626 'cause I never thought about it... 1151 01:06:14,737 --> 01:06:19,640 they didn't think fashion was a very manly pursuit, 1152 01:06:19,742 --> 01:06:22,006 or profession, for a man, you know. 1153 01:06:22,111 --> 01:06:23,840 So it was that kind of thing. Right. 1154 01:06:25,281 --> 01:06:27,146 Whatever. 1155 01:06:33,489 --> 01:06:36,049 Do you feel honored to be getting this award from the French? 1156 01:06:36,158 --> 01:06:37,785 Oh, it's very lovely of them. 1157 01:06:37,893 --> 01:06:39,827 It's exciting. 1158 01:06:39,929 --> 01:06:41,556 I don't know why they're doing it, frankly. 1159 01:06:41,664 --> 01:06:43,996 Oh, come on, are you kidding? 1160 01:06:44,100 --> 01:06:46,398 'Cause you live long enough to hang around? Are you kidding? 1161 01:06:46,502 --> 01:06:49,960 Congratulations. Oh, Daphne! Oh, child! 1162 01:06:50,072 --> 01:06:52,973 It's you they should be honoring, not me. 1163 01:06:53,075 --> 01:06:55,339 Merci. 1164 01:06:55,444 --> 01:06:58,607 It should be Jean Luc. He's the one they should be honoring. 1165 01:06:58,714 --> 01:07:01,182 No. Yes! 1166 01:07:01,283 --> 01:07:03,148 He doesn't want to be honored. 1167 01:07:03,252 --> 01:07:05,880 He doesn't want anything. 1168 01:07:05,988 --> 01:07:09,014 And I'm amazed he accepted tonight. 1169 01:07:09,125 --> 01:07:14,358 He's not only Chevalier, but directly Officer, which is exceptional. 1170 01:07:14,463 --> 01:07:19,366 Very deeply, I think he doesn't believe he deserves it. 1171 01:07:19,468 --> 01:07:23,234 That's why he deserves it... even more. 1172 01:07:29,712 --> 01:07:34,012 I just think it's so funny that you're working at your own party. 1173 01:07:34,116 --> 01:07:36,778 My dear, it's not work. It's pleasure. 1174 01:07:36,886 --> 01:07:38,410 You know, you're right, but still. 1175 01:07:38,521 --> 01:07:40,352 You think I'm gonna miss a good picture? 1176 01:07:43,192 --> 01:07:46,025 Are you still living in Carnegie Hall? Yeah. 1177 01:07:46,128 --> 01:07:47,993 In the same studio? Yeah. Yeah. 1178 01:07:48,097 --> 01:07:49,064 Okay. 1179 01:07:49,165 --> 01:07:51,030 They're going to throw me out eventually. Oh, God. 1180 01:07:51,133 --> 01:07:54,261 No, no, no. Either that or I go out in a coffin. 1181 01:07:54,370 --> 01:07:56,304 Who knows? Who cares? 1182 01:07:58,107 --> 01:07:59,768 Bonsoir, madame. 1183 01:08:28,070 --> 01:08:31,437 Congratulations. 1184 01:09:02,371 --> 01:09:04,202 When I photograph... 1185 01:09:10,980 --> 01:09:13,141 But that's what we're here for. 1186 01:09:14,083 --> 01:09:19,715 I'm not interested in the celebrities, with their free dresses. 1187 01:09:19,822 --> 01:09:22,655 That's... C'est pas important. 1188 01:09:23,492 --> 01:09:26,461 At least look at the clothes. 1189 01:09:32,301 --> 01:09:33,563 It's the clothes, 1190 01:09:33,669 --> 01:09:37,230 not the celebrity, and not the spectacle. 1191 01:09:37,339 --> 01:09:42,140 It's as true today as it ever was. 1192 01:09:42,244 --> 01:09:44,906 He who seeks beauty... 1193 01:09:45,014 --> 01:09:46,879 Will find it. 1194 01:10:01,030 --> 01:10:06,127 We cannot base New York City's entire economy... 1195 01:10:06,235 --> 01:10:08,533 on Wall Street and real estate. 1196 01:10:08,637 --> 01:10:15,736 It's a rally to save, or protect, the garment industry from disappearing. 1197 01:10:15,844 --> 01:10:17,812 But I'm afraid it's too late. 1198 01:10:17,913 --> 01:10:19,210 Uh... 1199 01:10:19,315 --> 01:10:22,910 All the jobbers are gone. They've all more or less moved out. 1200 01:10:23,018 --> 01:10:27,045 90-95% of the clothes Americans wear... 1201 01:10:27,156 --> 01:10:29,989 are made outside of America. 1202 01:10:30,092 --> 01:10:31,889 Michael! 1203 01:10:33,395 --> 01:10:35,693 Mr. Cunningham, they would like you up there. 1204 01:10:35,798 --> 01:10:37,095 How are you? Great. Good. 1205 01:10:37,199 --> 01:10:38,325 You? Good to see you. 1206 01:10:38,434 --> 01:10:39,799 Good. 1207 01:10:39,902 --> 01:10:41,392 I'm hanging out behind the scenes. 1208 01:10:41,503 --> 01:10:44,063 I think I'll take one of those pea coats. Made in America? 1209 01:10:44,173 --> 01:10:46,107 Get ready for the best part of the pea coat. 1210 01:10:46,208 --> 01:10:48,403 Cashmere and neoprene. Oh, too rich for me. 1211 01:10:50,012 --> 01:10:56,247 David Wolfson is one of the last..."jobbers"? What do you call yourself, David? 1212 01:10:56,352 --> 01:10:59,219 Oh, contractor. Contractor. Excuse me. I'll get it straight. 1213 01:10:59,321 --> 01:11:04,258 There were thousands of them 30 years ago, and there's now maybe 45. 1214 01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:06,225 You know? Yeah. 1215 01:11:08,163 --> 01:11:09,858 Oh, look at this. 1216 01:11:32,621 --> 01:11:37,251 This would fit the bill of the measurements... 1217 01:11:37,359 --> 01:11:40,988 of what Carnegie Hall said we were entitled to or not to? 1218 01:11:41,096 --> 01:11:43,656 Yes. Yeah. 1219 01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:49,261 Well, it would be nice if I had clothes to hang here. 1220 01:11:49,371 --> 01:11:51,566 But it's beautiful, with the whole wall of windows, 1221 01:11:51,674 --> 01:11:53,938 and the windowed kitchen facing the park. 1222 01:11:54,043 --> 01:11:57,206 That's an embarrassment, isn't it? 1223 01:12:17,933 --> 01:12:19,696 Uh, where's the next one? 1224 01:12:19,802 --> 01:12:22,828 The next one is on the 14th floor. 1225 01:12:27,509 --> 01:12:29,033 Here we go. 1226 01:12:31,313 --> 01:12:33,076 To your right. 1227 01:12:33,182 --> 01:12:37,175 I think... I think you'd like this one... 1228 01:12:37,286 --> 01:12:39,254 as an option. 1229 01:12:40,689 --> 01:12:42,156 Okay. 1230 01:12:57,206 --> 01:12:59,538 Bill, this was the one that had the dining area... 1231 01:12:59,641 --> 01:13:01,632 My dear, l... and the bigger kitchen. 1232 01:13:01,744 --> 01:13:04,770 I've never dined in, in my entire life. 1233 01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:06,848 Well, maybe you'll start. 1234 01:13:06,949 --> 01:13:09,247 This seems smaller. 1235 01:13:09,351 --> 01:13:11,410 A little bit. It could be the lighting. 1236 01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:13,147 Yes. Yeah. 1237 01:13:13,255 --> 01:13:14,722 Yeah, the view. 1238 01:13:20,529 --> 01:13:24,556 I appreciate your time, and I'll try not to take more of it, you know? 1239 01:13:24,666 --> 01:13:27,100 You take as long as you need. Well, yeah. 1240 01:13:37,579 --> 01:13:41,106 If you take one of these apartments, when are you going to move? 1241 01:13:44,219 --> 01:13:47,382 What do you do with bicycles? I don't know. 1242 01:14:09,044 --> 01:14:11,478 So I'm going to ask you two very personal questions... 1243 01:14:11,580 --> 01:14:13,241 you may or may not want to answer. 1244 01:14:13,348 --> 01:14:14,815 It's completely up to you. 1245 01:14:14,917 --> 01:14:19,081 But have you ever had a romantic relationship in your entire life? 1246 01:14:22,057 --> 01:14:24,491 Now, do you want to know if I'm gay? 1247 01:14:24,593 --> 01:14:26,390 Yes. 1248 01:14:26,495 --> 01:14:27,962 Isn't that a riot? 1249 01:14:28,063 --> 01:14:32,557 Well, that's probably why the family wanted to keep me out of the fashion world. 1250 01:14:32,668 --> 01:14:34,829 They wouldn't speak of such a thing. 1251 01:14:36,872 --> 01:14:38,897 No. I haven't. 1252 01:14:39,007 --> 01:14:43,034 Never in your entire life? No. It never occurred to me. 1253 01:14:43,145 --> 01:14:45,238 I guess I just was interested in clothes. 1254 01:14:45,347 --> 01:14:47,781 That's the obsession. 1255 01:14:47,883 --> 01:14:50,852 It's probably a little peculiar. 1256 01:14:50,953 --> 01:14:52,818 Is that something you regret? 1257 01:14:54,389 --> 01:14:56,721 No. I wouldn't even think about it. 1258 01:14:56,825 --> 01:14:58,816 No, I don't regret it. 1259 01:14:58,927 --> 01:15:01,020 There was no time. I was working night and day. 1260 01:15:01,129 --> 01:15:03,120 I mean, I don't know when you'd... 1261 01:15:03,232 --> 01:15:05,132 Uh, no, it was... 1262 01:15:07,436 --> 01:15:09,529 And in my family, uh, 1263 01:15:11,006 --> 01:15:13,907 things like that were never discussed. 1264 01:15:14,009 --> 01:15:16,500 So it never... It wasn't even in my head or my mind. 1265 01:15:16,612 --> 01:15:19,103 I wouldn't have known a thing about it. 1266 01:15:19,214 --> 01:15:20,681 So they needn't have worried. 1267 01:15:20,782 --> 01:15:23,580 But years later, I surmised... 1268 01:15:23,685 --> 01:15:27,587 that that must have been in the back of their minds. 1269 01:15:27,689 --> 01:15:30,817 And certainly the women from Chez Ninon. 1270 01:15:32,127 --> 01:15:34,254 You've had good friends. 1271 01:15:34,363 --> 01:15:36,456 You've had good friends. 1272 01:15:36,565 --> 01:15:38,965 A few people that I've known. 1273 01:15:39,067 --> 01:15:41,558 Yes. Yeah. 1274 01:15:41,670 --> 01:15:43,331 Uh... 1275 01:15:43,438 --> 01:15:45,998 People that... Oh, you mean... Just friends. 1276 01:15:46,108 --> 01:15:48,906 Oh, Yeah. Yeah. No, I have friends. 1277 01:15:49,011 --> 01:15:51,377 I mean, Antonio was a dear friend. 1278 01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:54,005 Oh, Antonio... I love those kids. 1279 01:15:54,116 --> 01:15:56,607 And Suzette. Yes. 1280 01:15:56,718 --> 01:16:01,178 Yeah, they... It's just, I suppose I've... 1281 01:16:02,558 --> 01:16:03,684 I don't know. 1282 01:16:03,792 --> 01:16:07,956 You can't be in love with your work, but I enjoyed it so much that it didn't... 1283 01:16:08,063 --> 01:16:10,156 Yeah. 1284 01:16:10,265 --> 01:16:12,256 But hey, listen, I am human. 1285 01:16:12,367 --> 01:16:14,767 Exactly. 1286 01:16:14,870 --> 01:16:19,671 You do have, uh, body urges or whatever, 1287 01:16:19,775 --> 01:16:24,041 but, uh, you control it as best you can. 1288 01:16:25,681 --> 01:16:29,242 And then the other question is... and again, you don't have to answer this... 1289 01:16:29,351 --> 01:16:33,515 but I know that you go to church every Sunday. 1290 01:16:33,622 --> 01:16:35,419 Oh, yeah. 1291 01:16:35,524 --> 01:16:37,151 And does religion... 1292 01:16:38,193 --> 01:16:41,094 Is that an important component of your life? 1293 01:16:56,445 --> 01:16:58,913 We don't have to talk about this. 1294 01:17:03,552 --> 01:17:08,512 Yeah, I think it's a good guidance in your life. 1295 01:17:10,759 --> 01:17:11,783 Uh... 1296 01:17:14,896 --> 01:17:19,094 Yeah, it's something I need and, uh... 1297 01:17:19,201 --> 01:17:21,726 Yeah, I guess maybe it's part of your upbringing. 1298 01:17:21,837 --> 01:17:23,304 I don't know. 1299 01:17:25,007 --> 01:17:27,032 Whatever it is, everyone... 1300 01:17:27,142 --> 01:17:30,305 You do whatever you do the best you can work things out, 1301 01:17:30,412 --> 01:17:32,346 but yeah. 1302 01:17:33,382 --> 01:17:36,374 I find it very important. Yeah. 1303 01:17:36,485 --> 01:17:38,851 For whatever reason. I don't know. 1304 01:17:38,954 --> 01:17:40,819 As a kid... 1305 01:17:40,922 --> 01:17:44,449 I went to church and all I did was look at women's hats. 1306 01:17:45,460 --> 01:17:46,757 You know. 1307 01:17:46,862 --> 01:17:52,129 But later, when you mature, for different reasons. 1308 01:17:54,069 --> 01:17:56,264 There's nothing worse. Yes, there is. 1309 01:17:56,371 --> 01:18:00,467 What you're about to go through is worse than getting a pink slip. 1310 01:18:00,575 --> 01:18:02,736 All right? Are you ready? 1311 01:18:02,844 --> 01:18:04,812 Because it's this way. It's like... 1312 01:18:04,913 --> 01:18:06,642 Oh, my... Surprise! 1313 01:18:06,748 --> 01:18:09,546 Happy birthday! 1314 01:18:13,455 --> 01:18:16,447 Look at them all in those jackets! 1315 01:18:16,558 --> 01:18:18,355 How did you do it? 1316 01:18:18,460 --> 01:18:20,485 Spending all that money! Oh! 1317 01:18:20,595 --> 01:18:22,586 Terrible. That's it. We're taking you out the back way. 1318 01:18:22,698 --> 01:18:24,461 Look at those kids! 1319 01:18:31,306 --> 01:18:35,003 You kids are... You're a riot. 1320 01:18:35,110 --> 01:18:37,544 This old geezer... 1321 01:18:42,084 --> 01:18:43,915 ...and we are so delighted... 1322 01:18:44,019 --> 01:18:46,886 to have you as part of our family and be part of yours. 1323 01:18:46,988 --> 01:18:50,014 And... Family? I've fought with every one of these kids! 1324 01:18:50,125 --> 01:18:51,786 That's family! 1325 01:18:51,893 --> 01:18:53,417 That's right. That's it. 1326 01:18:53,528 --> 01:18:54,995 That's right. 1327 01:18:56,531 --> 01:19:00,331 Gee whiz! # Happy birthday to you # 1328 01:19:00,435 --> 01:19:04,394 # Happy birthday to you # 1329 01:19:04,506 --> 01:19:08,374 # Happy birthday, dear Bill # 1330 01:19:08,477 --> 01:19:13,414 Well, okay. # Happy birthday to you ## 1331 01:19:13,515 --> 01:19:15,915 Don't forget to make a wish. Let's see if I can get it, Melissa. 1332 01:19:16,017 --> 01:19:18,417 This old geezer... 1333 01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:20,818 Okay, kid. You got it. 1334 01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:23,057 Whoo! 1335 01:19:31,933 --> 01:19:33,798 That is really nice. 1336 01:19:35,871 --> 01:19:37,964 Bill, we wrote a... I wrote a song for you. 1337 01:19:38,073 --> 01:19:39,563 Oh, my God. 1338 01:19:40,876 --> 01:19:45,779 # Bill, what's happening out on the street today? # 1339 01:19:46,381 --> 01:19:51,011 # Bill, last night you partied and now you pay # 1340 01:19:51,620 --> 01:19:56,648 # Bill, your page is late and you're still out on your bike # 1341 01:19:56,758 --> 01:20:01,320 # Hemlines, black ties, fur coats, pink scarves, sandals # 1342 01:20:01,429 --> 01:20:03,056 #When will you make your mind up? # 1343 01:20:03,165 --> 01:20:08,694 # Bill, you can't fit all those pictures on the page # 1344 01:20:08,804 --> 01:20:14,367 # Bill, we're going blind and we're half your age # 1345 01:20:14,476 --> 01:20:16,376 # Bill # 1346 01:20:16,478 --> 01:20:19,914 #Why can't we be like you are # 1347 01:20:20,015 --> 01:20:22,210 # Getting your own damn way # 1348 01:20:22,317 --> 01:20:27,277 # Oh, Bill, we celebrate you today ## 1349 01:20:27,389 --> 01:20:28,856 Yeah! 1350 01:21:53,842 --> 01:21:55,469 I just try to play a straight game, 1351 01:21:55,577 --> 01:21:59,479 and in New York that's very... almost impossible. 1352 01:22:01,249 --> 01:22:03,740 To be honest and straight in New York, 1353 01:22:06,655 --> 01:22:10,489 that's like Don Quixote fighting windmills. 1354 01:22:10,592 --> 01:22:12,583 Ooh, hoo. Shut up, Cunningham. 1355 01:22:12,694 --> 01:22:16,357 Let's get this thing on the road and get up and work. 1356 01:22:18,266 --> 01:22:21,064 All right, turn off the cameras. We've had enough of this. 1357 01:22:21,169 --> 01:22:23,693 # I'll be your mirror # 1358 01:22:23,805 --> 01:22:25,796 # Reflect what you are # 1359 01:22:25,907 --> 01:22:27,602 # In case you don't know # 1360 01:22:27,709 --> 01:22:32,237 # I'll be the wind, the rain and the sunset # 1361 01:22:32,347 --> 01:22:34,542 # A light on your door # 1362 01:22:34,649 --> 01:22:36,947 # To show that you're home # 1363 01:22:37,052 --> 01:22:41,079 # When you think the night has seen your mind # 1364 01:22:41,189 --> 01:22:45,683 # That inside you're twisted and unkind # 1365 01:22:45,794 --> 01:22:49,730 # Let me stand to show that you are blind # 1366 01:22:49,831 --> 01:22:54,131 # Please put down your hands # 1367 01:22:54,235 --> 01:22:57,261 # 'Cause I see you # 1368 01:23:11,820 --> 01:23:15,984 #I find it hard to believe you don't know # 1369 01:23:16,091 --> 01:23:17,752 # The beauty you are # 1370 01:23:17,859 --> 01:23:22,694 # But if you don't, let me be your eyes # 1371 01:23:22,797 --> 01:23:24,890 # A hand to your darkness # 1372 01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:27,059 # So you won't be afraid # 1373 01:23:27,168 --> 01:23:31,400 # When you think the night has seen your mind # 1374 01:23:31,506 --> 01:23:35,738 # That inside you're twisted and unkind # 1375 01:23:35,844 --> 01:23:40,008 # Let me stand to show that you are blind # 1376 01:23:40,115 --> 01:23:44,279 # Please put down your hands # 1377 01:23:44,386 --> 01:23:47,446 # 'Cause I see you # 1378 01:23:53,194 --> 01:23:57,324 # I'll be your mirror # #Reflect what you are # 1379 01:23:57,432 --> 01:24:01,528 # I'll be your mirror # # Reflect what you are # 1380 01:24:01,636 --> 01:24:05,834 # I'll be your mirror # # Reflect what you are # 1381 01:24:05,940 --> 01:24:09,398 #I'll be your mirror # #Reflect what you are ##115932

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