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You had to watch Antonio.
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As he was drawing, he was breathing,
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like he was pulling the magic
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right out of the atmosphere.
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His mouth was like a fish,
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and it was going in
and it was coming out
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through his fingers
on the drawing pad.
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And then he'd look at you
and take you in.
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And then, on,
you couldn't wait for him to look at you again.
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And he doesn't stop, and you just wish
he would breathe for a second,
11
00:01:04,664 --> 00:01:06,496
but you know he's holding his breath
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till he gets that stroke down.
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Everyone sat quiet.
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They were as still as you could imagine.
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And that went on till he finished
the most beautiful drawings.
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And Antonio, when he's drawing,
always had an audience around him.
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He fed on it.
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He was so far ahead of his time.
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He was in another century.
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And so creative and so imaginative.
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It was just beyond belief
what he created, actually.
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Antonio's aesthetic
is beyond- It's like fantastic.
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So, in his field, he's a giant,
the most talented.
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Not just his illustration, but the whole package,
the whole way of thinking,
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and his contribution is enormous.
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Until he came along,
27
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a fashion drawing was just like-
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00:02:04,524 --> 00:02:06,583
like a very stiff couture model.
29
00:02:06,693 --> 00:02:12,188
Antonio brought this thing
where he put them in a fantasy.
30
00:02:12,298 --> 00:02:16,735
He added so many things to his drawings
besides just the girl and the fashion.
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He brought this whole new style to fashion
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that I thought was wonderful,
really wonderful.
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And you kind of got
caught up in his dream.
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I think everybody at that time
got swept up into Antonio's world.
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There was something magical about it.
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He had this way of kind of
bringing this joy into peoples lives.
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Here was this magician
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in the center of fashion
39
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who expressed what it was about fashion,
40
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what it was about beauty, at that time,
better than anybody else.
41
00:02:51,638 --> 00:02:54,835
But he and Juan and his friends
were also taking the piss out of it.
42
00:02:54,941 --> 00:02:58,172
It's all about beauty.
It's all about beauty.
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00:02:58,278 --> 00:03:00,906
He is not commercially driven. Zero.
44
00:03:01,214 --> 00:03:05,276
Very few times in life
one meets someone like that.
45
00:03:05,385 --> 00:03:08,582
David Hockney said to me
at some point in the '80s,
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that if you look at a film
47
00:03:11,724 --> 00:03:14,853
of an elephant walking
through the savanna
48
00:03:14,961 --> 00:03:18,864
and a cartoon of an elephant
walking through the savanna,
49
00:03:18,965 --> 00:03:23,334
the cartoon gives you so much more
the feeling of the elephant,
50
00:03:23,436 --> 00:03:27,669
because there's something in the rendering
rather than in the recording.
51
00:03:27,774 --> 00:03:29,902
Antonio didn't record, he rendered.
52
00:03:39,219 --> 00:03:41,483
Everything was so new in the '70s.
53
00:03:41,588 --> 00:03:44,614
I mean, the gay thing was new,
the drug thing was new.
54
00:03:44,724 --> 00:03:46,715
We were all baby boomers.
55
00:03:46,826 --> 00:03:50,729
It was like a social era
that doesn't happen very often.
56
00:03:50,830 --> 00:03:53,390
One of the big social history trends
57
00:03:53,499 --> 00:03:57,663
was the emergence of the fashion designer
as true social forces
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00:03:57,770 --> 00:04:01,263
and as major figures
in what was called society.
59
00:04:02,275 --> 00:04:03,504
Until the '70s,
60
00:04:03,610 --> 00:04:06,511
designers were seen
as dressmakers, basically,
61
00:04:06,613 --> 00:04:09,913
and they weren't so much
part of the social scene.
62
00:04:10,016 --> 00:04:13,475
The ladies they dressed didn't necessarily
invite them to dinner,
63
00:04:13,586 --> 00:04:16,988
and they certainly didn't go to
the designers' houses for dinner.
64
00:04:17,290 --> 00:04:20,954
Yves Saint Laurent, Valentino, Halston
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00:04:21,261 --> 00:04:23,696
became so rich from all the licensing
66
00:04:23,796 --> 00:04:25,764
and had such opulent lifestyles
67
00:04:25,865 --> 00:04:29,699
that all the ladies, all the society people,
wanted to go to their parties.
68
00:04:29,802 --> 00:04:32,464
And they really sort of took over.
69
00:04:32,572 --> 00:04:36,668
The ready-to-wear
would have just started,
70
00:04:36,776 --> 00:04:39,837
and it was mostly happening in Paris,
71
00:04:39,946 --> 00:04:42,881
and it was such an exciting period
for clothes also.
72
00:04:42,982 --> 00:04:48,318
Before the ready-to-wear everything was driven
by the couture, which was amazing,
73
00:04:48,421 --> 00:04:50,515
but it was almost frigid.
74
00:04:50,623 --> 00:04:52,387
The mannequins were mannequins.
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00:04:52,492 --> 00:04:54,426
They were, you know, girls
76
00:04:54,527 --> 00:04:58,464
that lived in white coats
in between their shows.
77
00:04:58,564 --> 00:05:01,556
So when the ready-to-wear arrived,
78
00:05:01,668 --> 00:05:06,037
it unleashed all these crazy models
that had enormous personality,
79
00:05:06,339 --> 00:05:10,674
and that was a really strong moment
for Paris itself as a city.
80
00:05:10,777 --> 00:05:13,747
The '60s kind of social revolution
81
00:05:13,846 --> 00:05:15,780
really kind of came true in the 70s.
82
00:05:15,882 --> 00:05:18,544
Then everything underground
was becoming above ground.
83
00:05:18,651 --> 00:05:20,949
Underground was in by the '70s.
84
00:05:21,054 --> 00:05:23,955
It dovetailed with
the acceptance of homosexuality.
85
00:05:24,057 --> 00:05:27,288
It was just a much more open, fluid society.
86
00:05:27,393 --> 00:05:32,593
You had these new groups that had hot been
accepted how were running the show almost.
87
00:05:32,699 --> 00:05:37,660
It was all part of this scene
that just sort of took off in the '70s,
88
00:05:37,770 --> 00:05:39,295
took off and took over.
89
00:05:43,376 --> 00:05:46,676
In the late '50s or early '60s,
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00:05:46,779 --> 00:05:49,646
I was then writing,
I think, for Women's Wear.
91
00:05:49,749 --> 00:05:52,775
I had an old Rolls-Royce, a period one.
92
00:05:52,885 --> 00:05:54,478
Oh, the kids loved it.
93
00:05:54,587 --> 00:05:57,989
With the leather trunk on the back,
on a rack, you know, outside the car.
94
00:05:58,091 --> 00:06:03,427
And the kids saw it and they wanted me
to drive them to a party
95
00:06:03,529 --> 00:06:05,691
so Antonio could impress everyone.
96
00:06:05,798 --> 00:06:09,996
He wanted to arrive at an event at FIT
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00:06:10,103 --> 00:06:13,334
in that car with me as the chauffeur.
98
00:06:13,439 --> 00:06:16,500
And I got a chauffeur's cap,
put it on, and off we went.
99
00:06:16,609 --> 00:06:18,509
And after that, we just
became very good friends,
100
00:06:18,611 --> 00:06:22,605
and I found them an apartment
in Carnegie Hall.
101
00:06:22,715 --> 00:06:26,618
As a matter of fact, I gave them
my large apartment, which is six rooms,
102
00:06:26,719 --> 00:06:28,346
'cause it had been a shop,
103
00:06:28,454 --> 00:06:29,853
and they moved in,
104
00:06:29,956 --> 00:06:33,119
and Norman Mailer
was living in my studio
105
00:06:33,426 --> 00:06:35,827
with his lady friend at the time,
Lady Campbell.
106
00:06:35,928 --> 00:06:38,761
And no one's studio door
was ever locked.
107
00:06:38,865 --> 00:06:41,095
You walked right in and out,
whatever it was.
108
00:06:41,401 --> 00:06:44,996
It was like a college campus.
109
00:06:45,104 --> 00:06:48,972
Consequently, the French photographers
moved in with their girlfriends
110
00:06:49,075 --> 00:06:52,409
and then Antonio
got them jobs modeling
111
00:06:52,512 --> 00:06:55,413
because they were all sleeping
with the fashion editors.
112
00:06:55,515 --> 00:06:57,643
I mean, you can't imagine the intrigue.
113
00:06:57,750 --> 00:06:59,878
It was- It was unbelievable.
114
00:06:59,986 --> 00:07:02,421
But charming. Absolutely charming.
115
00:07:02,522 --> 00:07:03,785
'Cause it was harmless.
116
00:07:03,890 --> 00:07:07,724
I mean, those kids were the most fun
you've ever known.
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00:07:07,827 --> 00:07:09,727
And talented?
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00:07:09,829 --> 00:07:11,923
Forget everyone else.
119
00:07:12,031 --> 00:07:14,796
I will never forget
meeting Antonio
120
00:07:14,901 --> 00:07:17,632
because it was kind of the culmination
121
00:07:17,737 --> 00:07:20,138
of everything I had come to New York for.
122
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This was, like, somebody
I really, really wanted to know,
123
00:07:23,443 --> 00:07:24,842
because when I was in art school-
124
00:07:24,944 --> 00:07:27,003
We went to the same high school,
125
00:07:27,113 --> 00:07:29,013
the High School of Art and Design-
126
00:07:29,115 --> 00:07:31,482
I was copying his drawings.
127
00:07:31,584 --> 00:07:33,882
It was 1968.
128
00:07:33,986 --> 00:07:36,011
I was attending
Parsons School of Design
129
00:07:36,122 --> 00:07:38,056
and I was just walking
around the hallways
130
00:07:38,157 --> 00:07:42,094
and I noticed three people
that were wandering around.
131
00:07:42,195 --> 00:07:44,186
One was Antonio Lopez,
132
00:07:44,497 --> 00:07:45,987
one was Juan Ramos,
133
00:07:46,098 --> 00:07:48,499
and one was Cathee Dhamen,
134
00:07:48,601 --> 00:07:53,562
who, of course, was the ultimate
high-fashion model of the moment.
135
00:07:53,673 --> 00:07:56,665
And I just- I couldn't believe it was them.
136
00:07:56,776 --> 00:07:56,952
When he walked into the room,
he was so handsome.
137
00:07:56,976 --> 00:08:00,037
When he walked into the room,
he was so handsome.
138
00:08:00,146 --> 00:08:03,138
My God, he had this raven-black, curly hair
139
00:08:03,249 --> 00:08:06,583
and he had this little entourage
of cute guys.
140
00:08:06,686 --> 00:08:10,020
Nearby, they were doing a drawing
session and Cathee was the model.
141
00:08:10,122 --> 00:08:13,057
Antonio was guest professor that day
142
00:08:13,159 --> 00:08:16,857
and everybody was just crowding
the doorways and just staring at him.
143
00:08:16,963 --> 00:08:19,933
And he pointed- He looked at me
and he said, “You, come here.”
144
00:08:20,032 --> 00:08:23,764
And then suddenly Antonio turned
around to me, said, “Who are you?”
145
00:08:23,870 --> 00:08:26,601
And I was, like, shocked
'cause he was so cute.
146
00:08:26,706 --> 00:08:29,505
And, uh, I didn't know what to do
and I stood there.
147
00:08:29,609 --> 00:08:31,771
And he said, “Well, say something.”
148
00:08:31,878 --> 00:08:34,142
I said, “Well, who are you?"
149
00:08:34,247 --> 00:08:36,011
And he pulled me out of the crowd
150
00:08:36,115 --> 00:08:38,846
and he pulled me up
on the platform with Cathee
151
00:08:38,951 --> 00:08:42,478
and we were posing for the students.
152
00:08:42,588 --> 00:08:45,614
He says, “I'm Antonio
and I'm gonna draw you, girl.”
153
00:08:45,725 --> 00:08:48,626
And the way he talked
was so cute and so sexy.
154
00:08:48,728 --> 00:08:51,254
Oh, my God. I immediately went up to him
and gave him a hug.
155
00:08:51,564 --> 00:08:54,864
And he threw his arms around me and says,
“How would you like to work with me?”
156
00:08:54,967 --> 00:08:58,835
And he was, like, hugging me and I said,
“Oh, my God, I'm falling in love.”
157
00:09:00,773 --> 00:09:03,868
And then he said, “Call me.”
You know, “Call me later on.”
158
00:09:03,976 --> 00:09:05,671
And of course I did.
159
00:09:05,778 --> 00:09:07,576
And then we became friends,
160
00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:10,513
and we were friends
the rest of our lives.
161
00:09:10,616 --> 00:09:12,983
After I met Antonio
at Parsons School of Design,
162
00:09:13,085 --> 00:09:14,985
I pretty much stopped going to school.
163
00:09:29,735 --> 00:09:33,797
Antonio, myself, Juan,
and Bill Cunningham rented bicycles
164
00:09:33,906 --> 00:09:36,876
and we rode through Central Park.
165
00:09:36,976 --> 00:09:42,005
And in those days, Bethesda Fountain
was a big commingling area
166
00:09:42,114 --> 00:09:44,913
where people would hang out
and get dressed up.
167
00:09:45,017 --> 00:09:48,817
And that's where Antonio
discovered Jane and Donna.
168
00:09:48,921 --> 00:09:51,185
Well, the first time
I saw Antonio ever
169
00:09:51,290 --> 00:09:55,090
was at the Bethesda Fountain
in Central Park.
170
00:09:55,194 --> 00:09:57,788
And every Sunday there was be-ins.
171
00:09:57,897 --> 00:10:01,765
Those were wild, hippie times
when everybody gathered.
172
00:10:01,867 --> 00:10:03,266
That's what you did.
You just gathered.
173
00:10:03,369 --> 00:10:07,033
We were walking, Donna and I.
I was with Donna.
174
00:10:07,139 --> 00:10:09,699
And Antonio came up to us.
175
00:10:09,809 --> 00:10:12,039
There was this vision in red
176
00:10:12,144 --> 00:10:14,306
that was coming down
the main steps-
177
00:10:14,614 --> 00:10:19,211
top hat, red suit,
red pants, cane in hand.
178
00:10:19,318 --> 00:10:21,047
And it was Antonio.
179
00:10:21,153 --> 00:10:23,349
But I didn't know that at the time.
180
00:10:23,656 --> 00:10:24,987
It's funny.
181
00:10:25,091 --> 00:10:27,992
It looked almost like a pimp
with the red hats
182
00:10:28,094 --> 00:10:31,826
and, like, these crazy suits
and a walking stick.
183
00:10:31,931 --> 00:10:33,831
I was with my girlfriend Jane
184
00:10:33,933 --> 00:10:38,734
and he immediately was drawn
to her face and said, “Can I draw you?”
185
00:10:38,838 --> 00:10:40,806
And I was probably about 15,
186
00:10:40,906 --> 00:10:43,034
and normally I wouldn't say,
187
00:10:43,142 --> 00:10:45,304
“Yeah, I'll come to your apartment.”
188
00:10:45,411 --> 00:10:47,379
Right? It was, like, out of my nature.
189
00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:52,880
He seemed very not-dangerous.
He had such bright eyes and I just agreed.
190
00:10:52,985 --> 00:10:54,885
“Yeah, I'll come by and pose for you.”
191
00:10:54,987 --> 00:10:58,389
And he said, “And I'll pay you too.”
And I said, “All right.”
192
00:10:58,691 --> 00:11:02,218
She started going to
Carnegie Hall, where his studio was,
193
00:11:02,328 --> 00:11:04,763
and I was, like, kind of the tag-along.
194
00:11:04,864 --> 00:11:07,128
And I kept on saying,
“Well, what about me?”
195
00:11:07,233 --> 00:11:08,997
Uh, I mean, to myself, of course.
196
00:11:09,101 --> 00:11:12,867
Finally I got to be drawn
by Antonio after a while
197
00:11:12,972 --> 00:11:14,940
because he saw that I moved well.
198
00:11:15,041 --> 00:11:16,668
And so we would just have sessions-
199
00:11:16,776 --> 00:11:19,040
you know, alternate sessions,
Jane and I.
200
00:11:19,145 --> 00:11:21,944
And he would draw us
for The New York Times.
201
00:11:22,048 --> 00:11:25,313
We kind of at that point found
our little teenage gang, our little posse,
202
00:11:25,418 --> 00:11:26,977
and we just hung out.
203
00:11:27,086 --> 00:11:28,417
We were inseparable.
204
00:11:28,721 --> 00:11:30,314
They started coming around
205
00:11:30,423 --> 00:11:32,687
and then we started working on them.
206
00:11:32,792 --> 00:11:34,886
You know, they were
like art projects for us-
207
00:11:34,994 --> 00:11:36,894
painting them, dying their hair.
208
00:11:36,996 --> 00:11:39,226
Corey and I
were like brother and sister.
209
00:11:39,331 --> 00:11:41,265
We were, like, very close.
210
00:11:41,367 --> 00:11:44,234
And he had a real vision for makeup,
211
00:11:44,336 --> 00:11:47,931
very expressive makeup
and very inventive.
212
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,738
Corey created the white eyebrow
with white lipstick, you know,
213
00:11:51,844 --> 00:11:54,313
and he just really just sculpted my face.
214
00:11:54,413 --> 00:11:56,211
He was a sculptor.
215
00:11:56,315 --> 00:11:58,340
Oh, I saw Corey every day.
216
00:11:58,451 --> 00:11:59,976
He would dress us up.
217
00:12:00,086 --> 00:12:01,315
He'd pick an outfit out,
218
00:12:01,420 --> 00:12:05,823
and then Corey would
design makeup for us.
219
00:12:05,925 --> 00:12:08,758
Corey and I were at a party.
220
00:12:08,861 --> 00:12:11,125
All of a sudden, I just said to Corey,
221
00:12:11,230 --> 00:12:14,165
“I don't want my eyebrows anymore.”
222
00:12:14,266 --> 00:12:16,894
And I went into this bathroom
223
00:12:17,002 --> 00:12:19,994
and I took off my eyebrows.
224
00:12:20,106 --> 00:12:23,269
And I looked in the mirror
and I said, “I like this.
225
00:12:23,375 --> 00:12:27,243
Now we can start to make eyebrows.
We can draw any shape.”
226
00:12:27,346 --> 00:12:28,745
He loved that.
227
00:12:28,848 --> 00:12:31,112
And then we would play around with it.
228
00:12:31,217 --> 00:12:34,414
We were always designing
looks for ourselves.
229
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,386
I really love Corey.
230
00:12:36,489 --> 00:12:39,322
He's, like, the oldest friend I have.
231
00:12:39,425 --> 00:12:43,123
We would just get ready
for hours and hours and hours.
232
00:12:43,229 --> 00:12:46,096
We'd just spend all day getting ready
and then we'd go out.
233
00:12:46,198 --> 00:12:50,101
And Max's Kansas City was right around
the corner, within walking distance,
234
00:12:50,202 --> 00:12:53,797
so we'd- we'd go to Max's
every night, for starters.
235
00:12:53,906 --> 00:12:57,171
That was in '67, '68,
way before Paris.
236
00:12:57,276 --> 00:13:00,246
Those were the years,
the Max's Kansas City years.
237
00:13:00,346 --> 00:13:02,371
We got in by begging Mickey Ruskin
238
00:13:02,481 --> 00:13:07,112
and by hanging out every single night
at the door, just begging him- “Let us in.”
239
00:13:07,219 --> 00:13:08,983
'Cause we were underage.
240
00:13:09,088 --> 00:13:11,216
And we did it. We got in there.
241
00:13:11,323 --> 00:13:13,121
We were just kids. Kids.
242
00:13:13,225 --> 00:13:15,284
Like street kids.
243
00:13:15,394 --> 00:13:18,227
You know, we would just live
on French fries and Coke.
244
00:13:18,330 --> 00:13:20,424
Max's Kansas City
became my living room at night
245
00:13:20,533 --> 00:13:23,434
and it was just wild, as you can imagine.
246
00:13:23,536 --> 00:13:25,129
I mean, every night was different.
247
00:13:25,237 --> 00:13:27,137
You never knew
what was gonna happen there.
248
00:13:27,239 --> 00:13:30,869
For the most part, the artists were
in the front. I mean the real artists.
249
00:13:30,976 --> 00:13:34,378
The famous artists of the '70s would be
at the bar, and we'd be all in the back room.
250
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,041
Yeah, so you had the musicians upstairs,
the artists in the front,
251
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:39,845
and the wackos in the back.
252
00:13:39,952 --> 00:13:42,353
It was just hanging out all night long.
It was insane.
253
00:13:42,454 --> 00:13:45,480
And I'm sure a lot of people
were doing drugs. A lot.
254
00:13:45,591 --> 00:13:49,926
We used to beg Antonio to, you know,
finish work. “Let's go to Max's.”
255
00:13:50,029 --> 00:13:52,964
And we'd go and all we'd do is dance.
That's all we would do.
256
00:13:53,065 --> 00:13:55,466
I mean, he was
the most incredible dancer.
257
00:13:55,568 --> 00:14:00,165
I met Antonio and Juan
in, um, New York City
258
00:14:00,272 --> 00:14:02,366
at Max's Kansas City upstairs.
259
00:14:02,474 --> 00:14:04,374
I would get out and dance by myself,
260
00:14:04,476 --> 00:14:07,878
and suddenly one night
this amazing-looking man-
261
00:14:07,980 --> 00:14:11,006
And he had these suede pants
that had fringe
262
00:14:11,116 --> 00:14:15,485
and this amazing suede jacket-esque
kind of thing that had fringe.
263
00:14:15,588 --> 00:14:17,420
And when he twirled, it would-
264
00:14:17,523 --> 00:14:19,821
everything just kind of
Whipped all around him.
265
00:14:19,925 --> 00:14:21,324
And he was gorgeous.
266
00:14:21,427 --> 00:14:24,158
And he just took me.
He just took me.
267
00:14:24,263 --> 00:14:27,563
He took me and we started dancing together
and he twirled me around,
268
00:14:27,867 --> 00:14:30,199
and I was lost, and that was that.
269
00:14:33,038 --> 00:14:36,235
Well, he was extremely seductive,
270
00:14:36,342 --> 00:14:38,902
extremely romantic.
271
00:14:39,011 --> 00:14:44,177
So much of Antonio was
the way he stood and the way he danced.
272
00:14:44,283 --> 00:14:47,309
Everything was fluid, the way he moved.
273
00:14:47,419 --> 00:14:51,947
Everything was movement, everything
was music, everything was dancing.
274
00:14:52,057 --> 00:14:55,516
We went dan- I mean,
you went dancing all the time.
275
00:14:55,628 --> 00:14:59,223
There was something very
kind of cat-like about Antonio,
276
00:14:59,331 --> 00:15:01,060
you know, the way he moved.
277
00:15:01,166 --> 00:15:04,625
When you were next to him,
it was, like, you felt like dancing.
278
00:15:04,937 --> 00:15:09,431
It was truly about pleasure,
the pleasure of color, of line, of music,
279
00:15:09,541 --> 00:15:12,203
and incredible heart.
280
00:15:12,311 --> 00:15:15,076
I would cry on his shoulder.
I would ask for advice.
281
00:15:15,180 --> 00:15:17,171
He would give always
very good advice.
282
00:15:17,283 --> 00:15:22,153
He was the kind of person that was
non-discriminating about who you were,
283
00:15:22,254 --> 00:15:24,154
the kind of person you were.
284
00:15:24,256 --> 00:15:27,157
He was just very intense
when he was drawn to someone.
285
00:15:27,259 --> 00:15:29,023
And he was so inquisitive, you know.
286
00:15:29,128 --> 00:15:31,358
A very, very curious person.
287
00:15:31,463 --> 00:15:33,124
You felt like you knew him.
288
00:15:33,232 --> 00:15:36,532
He was very vulnerable, but very giving.
289
00:15:36,635 --> 00:15:38,933
I think that all fed his creativity.
290
00:15:39,038 --> 00:15:40,938
It was just what he needed.
291
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:42,940
I guess you'd call it, like, magnetism,
292
00:15:43,042 --> 00:15:46,137
or an aura about him that was power.
293
00:15:46,245 --> 00:15:48,077
He had a lot of power.
294
00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:52,447
If you were in his crosshairs,
you were the target of his attention,
295
00:15:52,551 --> 00:15:54,076
and therefore helpless.
296
00:15:54,186 --> 00:15:57,918
And it wasn't just me.
It was all the people I knew, everyone.
297
00:15:58,023 --> 00:15:58,433
It is that rare gift
that some people have
298
00:15:58,457 --> 00:16:01,916
It is that rare gift
that some people have
299
00:16:02,027 --> 00:16:06,123
of being so full of life
that you're just, kind of-
300
00:16:06,231 --> 00:16:08,256
You're drawn into it, you know?
301
00:16:09,335 --> 00:16:12,066
Whatever you did with Antonio, it was fun.
302
00:16:12,171 --> 00:16:14,697
It was wide open. It was just wild.
303
00:16:15,007 --> 00:16:16,998
We could do anything we wanted.
304
00:16:17,109 --> 00:16:19,009
Everyone was as free as a bird.
305
00:16:19,111 --> 00:16:21,239
The kids talk about
being liberated today.
306
00:16:21,347 --> 00:16:23,645
We never used the word,
but, by God-
307
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:27,982
And Antonio and Juan
were the most liberated.
308
00:16:28,087 --> 00:16:29,350
Those kids went off dancing
309
00:16:29,455 --> 00:16:31,355
and went sleeping
with whoever they wanted.
310
00:16:31,457 --> 00:16:32,481
It was wonderful.
311
00:16:32,591 --> 00:16:34,218
Well, it was all happening then.
312
00:16:34,326 --> 00:16:38,661
It was that pre-AIDS,
gay-liberation feeling of the early '70s.
313
00:16:38,764 --> 00:16:41,324
It was everywhere,
and I think everybody picked up on it.
314
00:16:41,433 --> 00:16:44,095
Everybody who was an artist
picked up on it and used it.
315
00:16:44,203 --> 00:16:47,468
There's no taboo.
There was no AIDS. There was no taboo.
316
00:16:47,573 --> 00:16:49,974
And there was no boundary.
317
00:16:50,075 --> 00:16:52,703
So Antonio is totally free.
He's completely free.
318
00:16:53,012 --> 00:16:56,209
And also he's bisexual,
so he's even freer.
319
00:16:56,315 --> 00:16:58,647
It was about people,
it was about love,
320
00:16:58,751 --> 00:17:01,721
it was about sex,
it was about who was sexy.
321
00:17:02,021 --> 00:17:04,319
Well, we had
a certain amount of decadence,
322
00:17:04,423 --> 00:17:07,586
but it was kind of lighter and fun decadence.
323
00:17:07,693 --> 00:17:10,162
It didn't feel, like, wicked or dirty
324
00:17:10,262 --> 00:17:13,664
or that we were descending
into the depths of anything.
325
00:17:13,766 --> 00:17:16,599
It felt like we were rising
to the heights of everything.
326
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:28,712
You know, his father was
a psychic, and Antonio had a lot of that.
327
00:17:28,814 --> 00:17:32,444
Antonio had very sharp instincts
about things,
328
00:17:32,551 --> 00:17:34,781
visual things and emotional things
329
00:17:35,087 --> 00:17:37,351
and things happening
in his friends' lives.
330
00:17:38,524 --> 00:17:41,391
Antonio's father
was a mannequin maker
331
00:17:41,493 --> 00:17:43,291
when they first came to the United States,
332
00:17:43,395 --> 00:17:45,659
and fancied himself a psychic.
333
00:17:45,764 --> 00:17:49,667
I think Antonio had a certain way
of looking at people
334
00:17:49,768 --> 00:17:53,170
and feeling that he knew
what they should do,
335
00:17:53,272 --> 00:17:54,569
and he was right.
336
00:17:54,673 --> 00:17:57,108
And that's what he used
his art for, in a way,
337
00:17:57,209 --> 00:18:00,509
to draw the way that he thought
they should look.
338
00:18:00,612 --> 00:18:04,207
Antonio would talk about his mother,
always with fondness.
339
00:18:04,316 --> 00:18:05,681
He adored her.
340
00:18:05,784 --> 00:18:10,312
She was beautiful and she made dresses,
and he loved what she did.
341
00:18:10,422 --> 00:18:14,381
Being young, Puerto Rican man,
and being gay,
342
00:18:14,493 --> 00:18:17,622
I'm sure it was, like,
a shock to both parents
343
00:18:17,729 --> 00:18:19,458
and to his brothers
344
00:18:19,565 --> 00:18:21,260
and it probably estranged them.
345
00:18:21,366 --> 00:18:24,461
And I think afterwards
it was never the same with his mother.
346
00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:27,631
They weren't close,
but they spoke periodically.
347
00:18:27,739 --> 00:18:30,765
So I was working with my father,
making mannequins in the summertime,
348
00:18:30,876 --> 00:18:32,708
helping my mother make dresses.
349
00:18:32,811 --> 00:18:35,712
I had a collection of dolls. If my friends
ever found out, they would've killed me.
350
00:18:35,814 --> 00:18:38,112
It's like, you know, two lives.
351
00:18:38,217 --> 00:18:41,243
Antonio and Juan,
you know, they were Nuyoricans.
352
00:18:41,353 --> 00:18:43,344
They weren't Puerto Ricans at all.
353
00:18:43,455 --> 00:18:46,083
They came to New York
at a very young age,
354
00:18:46,191 --> 00:18:52,358
and I think race and ethnicity
and sexuality
355
00:18:52,464 --> 00:18:56,423
have become the primary
underpinnings of their art,
356
00:18:56,535 --> 00:18:58,128
as opposed to fashion,
357
00:18:58,237 --> 00:19:02,674
which has always been how everybody
perceived Juan and Antonio's work.
358
00:19:04,309 --> 00:19:09,179
Sometime,
probably the spring of 1968-
359
00:19:09,281 --> 00:19:11,272
Perhaps it was the end of '67-
360
00:19:11,383 --> 00:19:13,818
there were these drawings in Elle,
361
00:19:13,919 --> 00:19:18,254
line drawings of these girls
with long, flowing hair.
362
00:19:18,357 --> 00:19:20,724
I grew up in France reading Tintin.
363
00:19:20,826 --> 00:19:24,626
My ideal life is lived as a line drawing.
364
00:19:24,730 --> 00:19:28,394
And to see, sort of, the line of Tintin
365
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:31,470
turned into these perfect expressions
366
00:19:31,570 --> 00:19:36,701
of pulchritude, beauty, femininity, fashion-
367
00:19:36,808 --> 00:19:38,776
And the lines, the curls,
368
00:19:38,877 --> 00:19:41,312
the expressions on the girls' faces,
369
00:19:41,413 --> 00:19:43,882
the way their arms were,
the way their legs were.
370
00:19:44,183 --> 00:19:46,550
I was absolutely mesmerized.
371
00:19:46,652 --> 00:19:50,816
I had this boyfriend- Actually, my first
boyfriend, an English guy called Edward.
372
00:19:50,923 --> 00:19:54,621
And probably the reason I was with him
was that he'd said at one point,
373
00:19:54,726 --> 00:19:57,752
“Oh, Antonio Lopez is a friend of mine.”
374
00:19:57,863 --> 00:20:01,663
And so Edward takes me to the studios
375
00:20:01,767 --> 00:20:04,498
behind Carnegie Hall on 56th Street,
376
00:20:04,603 --> 00:20:07,868
up in this funny elevator to this studio,
377
00:20:07,973 --> 00:20:11,705
and there was Antonio
standing in contrapposto
378
00:20:11,810 --> 00:20:15,508
and Juan looking short,
anguished, intense.
379
00:20:15,614 --> 00:20:19,915
I mean, Juan was sort of
the Puerto Rican Roy Scheider.
380
00:20:20,219 --> 00:20:23,450
You know, small
and always Worried about stuff.
381
00:20:23,555 --> 00:20:26,490
Antonio was Michelangelo's David
382
00:20:26,592 --> 00:20:30,358
with black hair and a mustache
and just this ease about him.
383
00:20:30,462 --> 00:20:33,363
And the fact that I was
in the studio of the guy
384
00:20:33,465 --> 00:20:36,400
who had done these drawings
that were everything to me
385
00:20:36,501 --> 00:20:38,401
was completely overwhelming
and wonderful.
386
00:20:38,503 --> 00:20:43,873
The first thing we did was we went out and had
dinner with Bill Cunningham at the automat.
387
00:20:43,976 --> 00:20:47,879
Then Donna Jordan
and Jane Forth materialize.
388
00:20:47,980 --> 00:20:52,508
And I used to go over there
to the studios
389
00:20:52,618 --> 00:20:55,849
and sit and watch the girls
pose for Antonio.
390
00:20:55,954 --> 00:21:00,357
Antonio would do the drawing.
Then Juan would color it at a different table.
391
00:21:00,459 --> 00:21:04,259
When I Went over,
I met Cathee Dhamen, his model.
392
00:21:04,363 --> 00:21:07,924
She was there with Antonio and he was
drawing her when I walked in the room.
393
00:21:08,033 --> 00:21:09,933
It was very sparsely decorated
394
00:21:10,035 --> 00:21:14,268
and the only thing he had in there
was this amazing black leather chair.
395
00:21:14,373 --> 00:21:17,343
And it was all white,
and it had wooden floors,
396
00:21:17,442 --> 00:21:22,312
and it was sort of walking into something
from heaven, like a white cloud.
397
00:21:22,414 --> 00:21:24,974
You felt like you were
in heaven being there.
398
00:21:25,284 --> 00:21:28,686
I just remember the afternoons there
in that beautiful apartment
399
00:21:28,787 --> 00:21:30,687
with the light and...
400
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:34,521
just sit and, you know,
watch him draw,
401
00:21:34,626 --> 00:21:36,617
watch him draw me and-
402
00:21:36,728 --> 00:21:41,495
And the atmosphere
was fantastic, always, in that studio.
403
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,400
It was electric.
That's the best way I can describe it.
404
00:21:45,504 --> 00:21:46,938
It was electric.
405
00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:48,438
♪ Ah, freak out ♪
406
00:21:49,541 --> 00:21:51,441
♪ Le Freak, c'est chic ♪
407
00:21:51,543 --> 00:21:53,443
♪ Freak out ♪
408
00:21:54,546 --> 00:21:56,446
♪ Ah, freak out ♪
409
00:21:57,549 --> 00:21:59,517
♪ Le Freak, c'est chic ♪
410
00:21:59,618 --> 00:22:00,915
♪ Freak out ♪
411
00:22:04,623 --> 00:22:07,490
♪ Have you heard
About the new dance craze? ♪
412
00:22:08,627 --> 00:22:09,526
♪ Listen to us ♪
413
00:22:09,628 --> 00:22:11,596
♪ I'm sure you'll be amazed ♪
414
00:22:11,697 --> 00:22:15,964
They were probably
the most talented people I think I ever knew.
415
00:22:16,068 --> 00:22:18,503
Just raw talent.
416
00:22:18,603 --> 00:22:21,937
And they didn't need anyone
or they didn't take it from anyone.
417
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,500
Antonio was born with it
and Juan refined it.
418
00:22:26,611 --> 00:22:28,670
They couldn't separate them.
419
00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:33,479
It was the most wonderful collaboration
you could ever imagine.
420
00:22:33,585 --> 00:22:38,489
Antonio was born with the talent,
but not the refinement.
421
00:22:38,590 --> 00:22:41,025
Juan had all the refinement.
422
00:22:41,126 --> 00:22:43,458
And Juan had the taste.
423
00:22:43,562 --> 00:22:47,521
Antonio was pure the '60s-
flamboyant but delightful.
424
00:22:47,632 --> 00:22:51,933
And everyone just gravitated
towards Antonio.
425
00:22:52,037 --> 00:22:54,870
Juan was definitely the intellectual.
426
00:22:54,973 --> 00:22:57,533
Antonio was sort of proud
of his street cred,
427
00:22:57,642 --> 00:22:59,872
although he was a very,
very intelligent person.
428
00:22:59,978 --> 00:23:04,006
But this was the roles that they sort of felt
most comfortable in as a team.
429
00:23:04,116 --> 00:23:06,050
They were both students at FIT.
430
00:23:06,151 --> 00:23:08,620
It was the first year that they met.
431
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,620
They immediately became boyfriends.
432
00:23:10,722 --> 00:23:12,121
They weren't there that long.
433
00:23:12,424 --> 00:23:15,018
They actually were plucked out of FIT
in their first or second year
434
00:23:15,127 --> 00:23:16,822
by Women's Wear Daily,
435
00:23:16,928 --> 00:23:19,954
who had seen their drawings and asked
them if they wanted to go on staff there.
436
00:23:20,065 --> 00:23:24,400
And they did. They quit school
and went to work for Women's Wear Daily.
437
00:23:24,503 --> 00:23:26,562
That lasted for a few months.
438
00:23:26,671 --> 00:23:28,901
When The New York Times approached,
they said they would do it,
439
00:23:29,007 --> 00:23:31,032
but they didn't want to have a contract.
440
00:23:31,143 --> 00:23:33,612
And they worked for Vogue too
at the same time.
441
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,474
They were a couple
for about five or six years,
442
00:23:37,582 --> 00:23:39,914
from '65 to '70.
443
00:23:40,018 --> 00:23:42,578
After that, even though
they were very close,
444
00:23:42,687 --> 00:23:44,712
they began more of
a working relationship
445
00:23:44,823 --> 00:23:47,485
Where they both participated
in the art-making.
446
00:23:47,592 --> 00:23:49,993
Juan's art directing was more nebulous
447
00:23:50,095 --> 00:23:52,393
and therefore much more hard to define.
448
00:23:52,497 --> 00:23:55,831
Antonio, obviously, did the drawings,
and they were so compelling,
449
00:23:55,934 --> 00:23:59,393
Whereas you didn't see what went on
in order to produce those drawings,
450
00:23:59,504 --> 00:24:03,839
which was Juan's collaboration, which brought
a whole other dimension to the thing.
451
00:24:03,942 --> 00:24:06,809
Because in the '60s,
when he was very young,
452
00:24:06,912 --> 00:24:10,007
he was very traditional in his illustration.
453
00:24:10,115 --> 00:24:12,140
His drawings were very fashion-oriented,
454
00:24:12,451 --> 00:24:14,146
and as he gained confidence
455
00:24:14,453 --> 00:24:17,753
and Juan gained more control
over the drawings themselves,
456
00:24:17,856 --> 00:24:19,881
it really took it to a whole new level.
457
00:24:19,991 --> 00:24:22,937
That's when they started to get more adventurous
and had really entered their own realm.
458
00:24:22,961 --> 00:24:24,952
That's when they started to get more adventurous
and had really entered their own realm.
459
00:24:25,063 --> 00:24:28,931
Juan kept him involved in modern art.
460
00:24:29,034 --> 00:24:31,935
Juan took influences from it
461
00:24:32,037 --> 00:24:35,496
and put it into Antonio's drawings.
462
00:24:35,607 --> 00:24:39,805
And if he didn't like the drawing, he'd come in-
“What is this? What is this?”
463
00:24:39,911 --> 00:24:44,644
And take them and tear them up
and tell Antonio to get back to work.
464
00:24:44,749 --> 00:24:48,777
Juan was the greatest art director,
after Brodovitch,
465
00:24:48,887 --> 00:24:50,446
at Harper's Bazaar.
466
00:24:50,555 --> 00:24:53,149
The glamour and the sexiness
467
00:24:53,258 --> 00:24:55,158
of being with Juan and Antonio
468
00:24:55,260 --> 00:24:58,230
was totally tied up with their relationship,
469
00:24:58,530 --> 00:25:00,624
because they had a very volatile relationship
470
00:25:00,732 --> 00:25:02,166
as far as when they worked together.
471
00:25:02,267 --> 00:25:05,726
Antonio would be the butch one
and he would be, like, yelling,
472
00:25:05,837 --> 00:25:09,740
and then Juan would explode, and actually
he would be the butcher one in the end,
473
00:25:09,841 --> 00:25:12,970
because it was just this kind of
confrontation that had to either end
474
00:25:13,078 --> 00:25:14,978
in a fistfight or in a drawing.
475
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,640
He was always
kind of overshadowed by Tony,
476
00:25:17,749 --> 00:25:22,084
but in point of fact he really
held his own in a lot of areas.
477
00:25:22,187 --> 00:25:25,555
He was funny and witty
and loving and sweet
478
00:25:25,657 --> 00:25:28,922
and, uh, very dedicated to Antonio.
479
00:25:29,761 --> 00:25:32,696
And also kept Tony anchored.
480
00:25:32,797 --> 00:25:35,528
'Cause he was very anchored, Juan.
481
00:25:37,035 --> 00:25:42,667
The biggest problem was getting them
to work and produce the work.
482
00:25:42,774 --> 00:25:46,574
'Cause Antonio,
when he wanted to go out dancing,
483
00:25:46,678 --> 00:25:48,510
Juan wanted to work.
484
00:25:48,613 --> 00:25:54,552
And Antonio was always dancing in front of
the mirrors to practice how he'd look at, un-
485
00:25:54,653 --> 00:25:57,782
Oh, the ones long before Studio 54.
486
00:25:57,889 --> 00:26:00,187
So he'd get back at 3:00
or 4:00 in the morning,
487
00:26:00,292 --> 00:26:03,660
and then by the time
Antonio wanted to work,
488
00:26:03,762 --> 00:26:05,252
Juan wasn't in the mood to work.
489
00:26:05,564 --> 00:26:08,192
It was simply wonderful.
I say wonderful 'cause it was.
490
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:12,100
And they charmed all the editors
they worked for.
491
00:26:12,203 --> 00:26:13,796
You can't imagine.
492
00:26:13,905 --> 00:26:16,806
They were months late
with the drawings.
493
00:26:16,908 --> 00:26:20,173
Oh, those rascals.
They knew the real deadline.
494
00:26:20,278 --> 00:26:23,578
Antonio and Juan knew that
if they had them too early-
495
00:26:23,682 --> 00:26:25,013
“Could you change that belt,
496
00:26:25,116 --> 00:26:26,948
change those shoes, or do this?”
497
00:26:27,052 --> 00:26:29,987
So he'd wait up
till they couldn't make any changes.
498
00:26:30,088 --> 00:26:33,854
And Antonio charmed
the pants off them.
499
00:26:33,959 --> 00:26:38,726
When they finally got the drawings,
they had solid gold.
500
00:26:38,830 --> 00:26:40,320
You see, everyone at that time,
501
00:26:40,632 --> 00:26:43,624
“Oh, fashion drawings,
that's just commercial art.”
502
00:26:43,735 --> 00:26:45,203
It wasn't at all.
503
00:26:45,303 --> 00:26:48,238
Antonio was giving them the real thing,
504
00:26:48,340 --> 00:26:51,310
but all the ones running it,
they didn't know.
505
00:26:51,610 --> 00:26:53,772
But anyone who waited got the real thing.
506
00:26:53,878 --> 00:26:58,076
They had tons of people, followers,
507
00:26:58,183 --> 00:27:01,084
because they were
so free with their ideas.
508
00:27:01,186 --> 00:27:04,781
They gave their ideas away
like they were confetti on New Year's Eve.
509
00:27:04,889 --> 00:27:08,086
They'd turn around, they had
a hundred thousand other ideas.
510
00:27:08,193 --> 00:27:09,991
I mean, that's the way they were.
511
00:27:10,095 --> 00:27:14,999
And sure, Juan would get mad,
uh, at some of them for things they did,
512
00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:17,000
but it would last three minutes.
513
00:27:17,102 --> 00:27:20,629
They didn't believe in holding grudges
or anything of the sort.
514
00:27:20,739 --> 00:27:25,108
And Antonio and Juan, if they didn't
like the clothes they were drawing,
515
00:27:25,210 --> 00:27:28,805
they'd make others
and have their friends sew them up,
516
00:27:28,913 --> 00:27:31,905
dress their model friends, go to the clubs.
517
00:27:32,017 --> 00:27:34,816
He did a lot of his work at night.
518
00:27:34,919 --> 00:27:36,250
So, probably, all night.
519
00:27:36,354 --> 00:27:38,789
And the first job I did with him was-
520
00:27:38,890 --> 00:27:41,325
I think it was pretty much all on Donna.
521
00:27:41,426 --> 00:27:43,793
He could start with nothing at all,
522
00:27:43,895 --> 00:27:45,954
just the clothes and the girl,
523
00:27:46,064 --> 00:27:48,294
and then when
you looked at the drawing,
524
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,769
it was this whole narrative fantasy
525
00:27:52,871 --> 00:27:54,669
that was so amazing.
526
00:27:54,773 --> 00:27:56,673
I remember the first ones I did.
527
00:27:56,775 --> 00:28:00,006
They were on a great white stallion,
galloping through,
528
00:28:00,111 --> 00:28:01,943
and it was the collections.
529
00:28:02,047 --> 00:28:05,017
Antonio was very,
very influenced by the street.
530
00:28:05,116 --> 00:28:08,245
Days when he was not in the studio drawing
were spent on the street,
531
00:28:08,353 --> 00:28:11,118
looking at people on the subway,
talking to people
532
00:28:11,222 --> 00:28:14,283
and being inspired by what they wore,
how they acted.
533
00:28:15,860 --> 00:28:19,125
He went through this ritual
before he would draw.
534
00:28:19,230 --> 00:28:21,824
He would lay the dress to the side,
535
00:28:21,933 --> 00:28:25,198
and then I would just sit in my underwear
536
00:28:25,303 --> 00:28:28,102
and he would draw the dress on me.
537
00:28:28,206 --> 00:28:31,437
But he needed it, like,
close to him visually.
538
00:28:31,743 --> 00:28:35,771
So then he would put
Sly and the Family Stone on.
539
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,214
He would blast that so loud,
540
00:28:39,317 --> 00:28:43,686
and he would start to dance
like his feet were on fire.
541
00:28:46,858 --> 00:28:48,019
♪ Whoo ♪
542
00:28:49,027 --> 00:28:50,017
♪ Whoo ♪
543
00:28:50,128 --> 00:28:53,291
Let me tell you,
he was such a great dancer.
544
00:28:53,398 --> 00:28:58,097
And so he had to get this whole energy
pumped up, and then he was ready.
545
00:28:58,203 --> 00:29:01,070
And then once he started to draw,
546
00:29:01,172 --> 00:29:03,334
you just knew you were gonna
be there for hours.
547
00:29:03,441 --> 00:29:06,467
And it's funny,
the way he held his hands.
548
00:29:06,778 --> 00:29:11,340
It's almost like he was conducting
with this hand and drawing with this hand.
549
00:29:11,449 --> 00:29:13,349
And his hands were beautiful.
550
00:29:13,451 --> 00:29:16,318
So I used to, like, watch his hands
while I would sit there.
551
00:29:16,421 --> 00:29:20,289
You would have to be
very still so that he could focus,
552
00:29:20,391 --> 00:29:22,291
because if you weren't very still,
553
00:29:22,393 --> 00:29:25,090
then he would not be able
to hold on to the energy.
554
00:29:25,196 --> 00:29:28,791
Because he would look at you and you would
be still and you would be together,
555
00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:32,996
but all of this stuff would be
going on around you, the creativity.
556
00:29:33,104 --> 00:29:34,799
You're vulnerable, you're excited.
557
00:29:34,906 --> 00:29:37,398
It was hard to stay still
because of the excitement.
558
00:29:37,509 --> 00:29:40,945
His directions were so precise.
559
00:29:41,045 --> 00:29:45,414
Just his whole movement
of his hand was so graceful,
560
00:29:45,517 --> 00:29:48,316
and to see the hand
going across the page
561
00:29:48,419 --> 00:29:50,217
and, you know, it's just this grace.
562
00:29:50,321 --> 00:29:54,417
And his ever-steadfast
companion statue in the back, Juan,
563
00:29:54,526 --> 00:29:58,929
always, you know, looking
and directing over his shoulder.
564
00:29:59,030 --> 00:30:01,965
He was a very, very physical illustrator.
565
00:30:02,066 --> 00:30:04,160
It was like a workout for him.
566
00:30:04,269 --> 00:30:06,294
First of all, the breathing,
it was very unique.
567
00:30:06,404 --> 00:30:08,338
He would gasp.
568
00:30:08,439 --> 00:30:12,103
He would hold his breath,
probably to get a very fine detail,
569
00:30:12,210 --> 00:30:14,838
and then once he got the line,
he would-
570
00:30:14,946 --> 00:30:17,074
Like, exhale it all out.
571
00:30:17,182 --> 00:30:19,776
Sometimes there'd be beads
of sweat on his forehead,
572
00:30:19,884 --> 00:30:22,410
and there was always music,
always music.
573
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,252
Watching him draw was one
of the things that used to keep me awake
574
00:30:26,357 --> 00:30:28,257
when we were drawing late at night
575
00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:31,454
because he was so fascinating.
576
00:30:31,563 --> 00:30:33,497
He always put his tongue out,
577
00:30:33,598 --> 00:30:37,557
and he had this rapid-fire way of
looking down and up and down and up,
578
00:30:37,869 --> 00:30:39,928
and you had to stay still.
579
00:30:40,038 --> 00:30:44,373
And so that's how I devised this thing
of watching him watch me.
580
00:30:44,475 --> 00:30:48,434
I can close- I don't even have to
close my eyes and I can see him.
581
00:30:53,084 --> 00:30:56,110
He was illustrating Charles James,
582
00:30:56,221 --> 00:30:57,848
all of those clothes.
583
00:30:57,956 --> 00:31:00,152
So we would go over
to the Chelsea Hotel
584
00:31:00,258 --> 00:31:05,128
into Charles's strange
little studio living apartment
585
00:31:05,230 --> 00:31:10,225
with this obese beagle called Sputnik,
I think, that lived in the bathroom.
586
00:31:10,335 --> 00:31:12,235
It was like a room-
587
00:31:12,337 --> 00:31:15,238
The bathroom
was about as big as this couch,
588
00:31:15,340 --> 00:31:17,866
and this huge, obese beagle.
589
00:31:17,976 --> 00:31:21,071
Well, of course, you know,
I had no references,
590
00:31:21,179 --> 00:31:24,240
so I didn't know that I was
in the presence of, like,
591
00:31:24,349 --> 00:31:29,082
this kind of world-class,
world-renowned designer.
592
00:31:29,187 --> 00:31:32,452
I knew nothing about fashion
or clothes or...
593
00:31:32,557 --> 00:31:37,290
I said, “Antonio and Juan,
come, let's meet Charles James.”
594
00:31:37,395 --> 00:31:40,228
I knew all about him.
I knew his genius.
595
00:31:40,331 --> 00:31:45,326
And Charlie always knew who
he could use to his advantage.
596
00:31:45,436 --> 00:31:48,963
And Charlie immediately realized the talent,
597
00:31:49,974 --> 00:31:51,408
and over the years
598
00:31:51,509 --> 00:31:56,310
he got them to draw
drawings of his collections.
599
00:31:56,414 --> 00:31:59,349
Now, those were drawing sessions.
600
00:31:59,450 --> 00:32:02,886
Antonio was learning from Charles
601
00:32:02,987 --> 00:32:07,083
what angles, what to see
in the clothes to draw them.
602
00:32:07,191 --> 00:32:12,061
One night Charlie was bending them over
and showing them what to do and everything,
603
00:32:12,163 --> 00:32:14,530
and a dress wouldn't fit anyone-
they put it on me.
604
00:32:14,632 --> 00:32:17,431
Except I had nothing up here.
You know?
605
00:32:17,535 --> 00:32:21,494
The damn thing was falling down and-
I-It was- It was wonderful.
606
00:32:21,606 --> 00:32:23,904
Antonio, he never said anything.
607
00:32:24,709 --> 00:32:26,370
He got up and went out.
608
00:32:26,477 --> 00:32:31,381
About an hour later,
he came back to the Chelsea Hotel.
609
00:32:31,482 --> 00:32:33,382
It's now 3:00 in the morning.
610
00:32:33,484 --> 00:32:37,580
He went out and picked up a hustler.
611
00:32:37,689 --> 00:32:39,680
The dress he was drawing,
612
00:32:39,991 --> 00:32:42,688
no one could get their hips into it.
613
00:32:42,994 --> 00:32:45,395
This young fella,
they put the dress on him,
614
00:32:45,496 --> 00:32:49,296
it slid right, like a serpent,
over his hips.
615
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:50,697
Antonio was very inspired.
616
00:32:51,002 --> 00:32:54,233
He had the right body in the dress.
617
00:32:54,339 --> 00:32:54,449
The drawing session went on,
and it was like magic.
618
00:32:54,472 --> 00:32:58,602
The drawing session went on,
and it was like magic.
619
00:32:58,710 --> 00:33:03,147
And as it went on, it was terrifying.
620
00:33:03,247 --> 00:33:04,510
Charlie is there.
621
00:33:04,615 --> 00:33:07,482
The whole room,
everyone's watching, quietly listening.
622
00:33:07,585 --> 00:33:12,546
You knew right before your eyes
real creation was happening.
623
00:33:12,657 --> 00:33:16,355
You could feel him breathing it right in,
sucking it out of them.
624
00:33:16,461 --> 00:33:19,362
And it went through his head
and came out through his fingers.
625
00:33:19,464 --> 00:33:21,728
You could see the fingers
and what was going on.
626
00:33:22,033 --> 00:33:24,058
And that wasn't put on for show.
627
00:33:24,168 --> 00:33:27,297
That was the real thing 'cause
he had the dress just as he wanted it.
628
00:33:27,405 --> 00:33:30,340
Even Charlie never got up
or said anything.
629
00:33:30,441 --> 00:33:36,005
But that was the most electrifying
experience with Antonio.
630
00:33:37,548 --> 00:33:40,108
♪ Why couldn't they just
Let me be? ♪
631
00:33:40,218 --> 00:33:41,708
♪ Let me be, let me be ♪
632
00:33:42,020 --> 00:33:44,216
- Sometimes he couldn't draw.
- ♪ Let me be ♪
633
00:33:44,322 --> 00:33:45,721
He called it a block and he-
634
00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:49,392
If you read his diary, it's always,
“Blocked today. Not a good day.”
635
00:33:49,494 --> 00:33:55,092
And he was on deadline and he had to
produce a drawing for a certain client,
636
00:33:55,199 --> 00:33:56,633
and he would call, uh-
637
00:33:56,734 --> 00:33:59,669
One of his psychiatrists was a hypnotist,
638
00:33:59,771 --> 00:34:02,365
and she would hypnotize him
over the phone,
639
00:34:02,473 --> 00:34:04,373
and then he was able to draw after that.
640
00:34:04,475 --> 00:34:06,409
That happened often.
641
00:34:06,511 --> 00:34:08,673
Weekly or biweekly.
642
00:34:08,780 --> 00:34:13,013
So, sometimes
I would be there, waiting,
643
00:34:13,117 --> 00:34:14,744
and the block-
644
00:34:15,053 --> 00:34:17,021
would not open,
645
00:34:17,121 --> 00:34:19,215
and we'd sit there
for hours and hours.
646
00:34:19,323 --> 00:34:21,417
And sometimes it would be
very late at night,
647
00:34:21,526 --> 00:34:24,461
so we would actually end up
working all night.
648
00:34:24,562 --> 00:34:26,656
I think, probably,
649
00:34:26,764 --> 00:34:28,596
he couldn't draw
650
00:34:28,699 --> 00:34:32,761
because of his ongoing sexual affairs,
651
00:34:33,071 --> 00:34:36,735
which were, like, nightly
and with different people.
652
00:34:36,841 --> 00:34:38,741
They were very complicated.
653
00:34:38,843 --> 00:34:40,436
His father being a psychic
654
00:34:40,545 --> 00:34:44,573
and his believing in...
something paranormal
655
00:34:44,682 --> 00:34:46,411
was a huge influence too,
656
00:34:46,517 --> 00:34:50,385
and I think that was very much
a part of a ritual that he would have.
657
00:34:50,488 --> 00:34:53,753
He would dance and sort of
put himself into a trance,
658
00:34:53,858 --> 00:34:56,054
and sometimes it'd work
and sometimes it didn't.
659
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,357
But if it didn't work, that's when
he would turn to the psychiatrist
660
00:34:59,464 --> 00:35:01,262
or the hypnotist.
661
00:35:01,365 --> 00:35:05,063
There was all sorts of different
physical things that he would do
662
00:35:05,169 --> 00:35:08,264
in order to connect
the mind to the hand
663
00:35:08,372 --> 00:35:11,103
and have that flow
without having to think.
664
00:35:11,209 --> 00:35:13,337
It's very hard to draw
if you think of what you're drawing.
665
00:35:13,444 --> 00:35:16,106
It's much easier to let it flow out.
666
00:35:16,214 --> 00:35:18,080
It was about making beauty.
667
00:35:18,182 --> 00:35:19,650
That's almost like a sexual urge,
668
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:23,584
or an urge towards food
or an urge towards music or dance
669
00:35:23,688 --> 00:35:26,316
or, God knows, drugs or drink, but it's-
670
00:35:26,424 --> 00:35:28,085
It wasn't drugs or drink.
671
00:35:28,192 --> 00:35:32,857
It was... make these lines.
672
00:35:33,164 --> 00:35:36,327
If I had to describe
those afternoons
673
00:35:36,434 --> 00:35:38,766
or those evenings or late nights
674
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:41,601
or whatever up there
in that apartment,
675
00:35:41,706 --> 00:35:45,370
there was a sensuality
to the whole thing,
676
00:35:45,476 --> 00:35:47,570
an exchange of energy.
677
00:35:47,678 --> 00:35:51,205
And that was, you know, always
the precursor for going out.
678
00:35:53,417 --> 00:35:56,478
You'd model,
and then he loved to dress me up
679
00:35:56,587 --> 00:35:58,385
and do my makeup and everything,
680
00:35:58,489 --> 00:36:00,480
and then we'd go out for the evening.
681
00:36:06,597 --> 00:36:09,464
Donna Jordan and Jane Forth
were a lot of fun.
682
00:36:09,567 --> 00:36:11,228
Jane was all the rage,
683
00:36:11,335 --> 00:36:13,497
especially when she started
the no-eyebrow look.
684
00:36:13,604 --> 00:36:17,598
Bazaar and Vogue
really picked up on her and Donna.
685
00:36:17,708 --> 00:36:20,803
They were much around the Factory
and then Max's Kansas City.
686
00:36:20,912 --> 00:36:24,473
They were sort of
the new It Girls in New York
687
00:36:24,582 --> 00:36:27,313
in '70, '71, '72.
688
00:36:27,418 --> 00:36:29,819
And sort of eclipsing, a little bit,
the drag queens-
689
00:36:29,921 --> 00:36:34,552
Holly Woodlawn and Jackie Curtis
and Candy Darling.
690
00:36:34,659 --> 00:36:37,321
It just seemed like Jane and Donna
were the favorites,
691
00:36:37,428 --> 00:36:40,796
and if we were going to a big party,
692
00:36:40,898 --> 00:36:43,890
you know, with eight or ten people,
they were in the entourage.
693
00:36:49,774 --> 00:36:52,766
The only time
I really saw Andy out
694
00:36:52,877 --> 00:36:55,175
would be at Max's in those days.
695
00:36:55,279 --> 00:36:58,271
Um, this was prior to
the assassination attempt.
696
00:36:58,849 --> 00:37:00,544
And he was pretty free
697
00:37:00,651 --> 00:37:02,415
and in a safe kind of posse
698
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,217
of Fred Hughes and Paul Morrissey.
699
00:37:05,323 --> 00:37:07,951
At that time
at Max's Kansas City,
700
00:37:08,259 --> 00:37:09,954
they used to have their own corners,
701
00:37:10,261 --> 00:37:13,959
and you were either in the Andy corner
or the Antonio corner.
702
00:37:14,265 --> 00:37:17,496
The Andy corner
was more like hangers-on,
703
00:37:17,602 --> 00:37:20,572
and the Antonio corner
was more like the cool corner.
704
00:37:20,671 --> 00:37:23,868
There were so many different camps.
I was in the Warhol camp.
705
00:37:23,975 --> 00:37:28,606
And then there was the back room and that
was even subdivided into different camps.
706
00:37:28,713 --> 00:37:31,546
The relationship between
Andy Warhol and Antonio
707
00:37:31,649 --> 00:37:33,515
existed on a professional level
708
00:37:33,618 --> 00:37:35,712
because they were both illustrators
709
00:37:35,820 --> 00:37:38,585
and they had both made
their careers in New York City.
710
00:37:38,689 --> 00:37:41,818
They had this common
professional friendship
711
00:37:41,926 --> 00:37:45,385
with the editors of fashion magazines.
712
00:37:45,496 --> 00:37:49,524
So these two kind of separate orbits
were kind of colliding.
713
00:37:49,634 --> 00:37:51,295
And it was the same people
714
00:37:51,402 --> 00:37:55,635
that kind of slid
between the two universes.
715
00:37:55,740 --> 00:37:59,005
I was in both circles
at the same time.
716
00:37:59,310 --> 00:38:03,338
I think there was a lot of curiosity
between Andy and Antonio.
717
00:38:03,447 --> 00:38:07,008
As wild and exuberant and passionate
718
00:38:07,318 --> 00:38:11,277
and Puerto Rican as Antonio was,
719
00:38:11,389 --> 00:38:15,257
Andy was, you know,
kind of quiet and reserved
720
00:38:15,359 --> 00:38:18,556
and he just let things
happen around him.
721
00:38:18,663 --> 00:38:21,257
And Antonio created things happening.
722
00:38:21,365 --> 00:38:26,394
Andy had people performing
for him, essentially, most of the time,
723
00:38:26,504 --> 00:38:28,996
and Tony was performing
for people most of the time.
724
00:38:30,641 --> 00:38:32,973
I know that there
was a big rivalry between them.
725
00:38:33,077 --> 00:38:35,637
David Hockney and Andy Warhol
726
00:38:35,746 --> 00:38:37,908
both really admired Antonio's drawings
727
00:38:38,015 --> 00:38:39,847
and were a bit jealous.
728
00:38:39,950 --> 00:38:41,475
In a way, as an artist,
729
00:38:41,585 --> 00:38:45,886
you never dared to draw the figure
when Antonio was around
730
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:49,426
because he could draw it so well
and it was so effortless,
731
00:38:49,527 --> 00:38:51,894
and as an artist you feel this.
732
00:38:51,996 --> 00:38:55,557
And Antonio was the same way. He was
jealous of them for their accomplishments.
733
00:38:55,666 --> 00:38:58,863
I do know that Andy
admired Antonio's work a lot,
734
00:38:58,969 --> 00:39:03,031
and in fact they ended up
exchanging portraits in the '80s, finally.
735
00:39:04,608 --> 00:39:07,578
The women
that read the magazines and all
736
00:39:07,678 --> 00:39:11,842
reacted in a very serious way
to Antonio's drawings
737
00:39:11,949 --> 00:39:16,853
because he put real, live women in them,
738
00:39:16,954 --> 00:39:19,389
pulsating with sexual desire.
739
00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:21,049
They were wonderful, the drawings.
740
00:39:21,359 --> 00:39:23,453
I mean, women could relate with them.
741
00:39:23,561 --> 00:39:23,837
I wanted to be gorgeous,
742
00:39:23,861 --> 00:39:25,761
I wanted to be gorgeous,
743
00:39:25,863 --> 00:39:29,697
fantastic, indomitable.
744
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,430
Antonio was the one
who drew girls like that.
745
00:39:33,537 --> 00:39:36,472
The girls in the fashion photographs
didn't look like that.
746
00:39:36,574 --> 00:39:39,066
Drawings made them look like goddesses.
747
00:39:39,377 --> 00:39:43,905
That kind of making of beauty
translated to the Antonio's Girls.
748
00:39:44,014 --> 00:39:48,576
You know, finding a girl and telling her
how to be super, unbelievably, extra beautiful.
749
00:39:49,687 --> 00:39:51,951
Antonio was always
discovering these girls.
750
00:39:52,056 --> 00:39:54,525
So the first girl that he brought over
was Pat Cleveland.
751
00:39:54,625 --> 00:39:56,923
And the next girl that he brought over
was Jerry Hall.
752
00:39:57,027 --> 00:40:00,019
These girls that were hanging out
in Antonio's apart-
753
00:40:00,131 --> 00:40:03,795
I just thought they were
the most exotic creatures in the world.
754
00:40:03,901 --> 00:40:05,665
Jane Forth, Donna Jordan
755
00:40:05,770 --> 00:40:08,398
were much more exotic
than the models who came before.
756
00:40:08,506 --> 00:40:11,874
They weren't classic beauties.
They were a little edgy.
757
00:40:11,976 --> 00:40:14,946
He always looked
for people who were flawed,
758
00:40:15,045 --> 00:40:17,878
you know, a little bit crazy
in their attitude.
759
00:40:17,982 --> 00:40:20,849
He would take something, like,
kind of really, really raw
760
00:40:20,951 --> 00:40:22,851
and say, “This is what you can be.”
761
00:40:22,953 --> 00:40:24,478
And he's, like, magical.
762
00:40:24,588 --> 00:40:26,488
Anybody go near him,
763
00:40:26,590 --> 00:40:30,652
they become transformed
in a very natural way.
764
00:40:30,761 --> 00:40:33,594
These girls,
most especially Pat Cleveland,
765
00:40:33,697 --> 00:40:35,529
didn't just walk down the runway
766
00:40:35,633 --> 00:40:39,661
in that old-fashioned,
very methodical, cold way.
767
00:40:39,770 --> 00:40:43,832
They, like, danced down the runway.
They made it fun and young.
768
00:40:45,943 --> 00:40:49,902
♪ Oh, love to love you, baby ♪
769
00:40:50,014 --> 00:40:52,108
The people that he fixated on-
770
00:40:52,216 --> 00:40:54,742
men and women, but especially women-
771
00:40:54,852 --> 00:40:57,719
had to have a certain something
beyond their beauty
772
00:40:57,822 --> 00:40:59,517
that connected to something inside him,
773
00:40:59,623 --> 00:41:01,648
and I'm not sure
what that something is.
774
00:41:01,759 --> 00:41:04,456
Just being a beauty is-
is not enough.
775
00:41:04,562 --> 00:41:06,462
It's the way they carry themselves,
776
00:41:06,564 --> 00:41:08,089
how they feel about themselves.
777
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:10,691
You can see it clearly
in the way they stand,
778
00:41:10,801 --> 00:41:12,826
the way they speak,
the way they walk,
779
00:41:12,937 --> 00:41:14,837
the way they take care of themselves.
780
00:41:14,939 --> 00:41:16,600
And I find that very exciting.
781
00:41:16,707 --> 00:41:20,439
I think what he saw
was your desire and your passion,
782
00:41:20,544 --> 00:41:23,980
as long as you knew how to
express yourself through fashion.
783
00:41:24,081 --> 00:41:27,449
So it didn't matter what you were
784
00:41:27,551 --> 00:41:28,985
or what color you were.
785
00:41:29,086 --> 00:41:32,954
In fashion, and for
a fashion illustrator and for a designer,
786
00:41:33,057 --> 00:41:35,958
the model is the beginning
of the embodiment of your ideal.
787
00:41:36,060 --> 00:41:39,223
Well, Antonio's like, um, guru
788
00:41:39,530 --> 00:41:42,022
of what they call Antonio's Girls.
789
00:41:42,132 --> 00:41:45,033
It's like Charlie's Angels, so to speak,
790
00:41:45,135 --> 00:41:48,730
and he really, uh,
teaches 'em everything.
791
00:41:49,807 --> 00:41:52,833
Antonio's Girls encompass many girls.
792
00:41:54,712 --> 00:41:57,010
There was a magazine article in 1973
793
00:41:57,114 --> 00:41:58,809
in Esquire magazine
794
00:41:58,916 --> 00:42:00,543
written by Jean-Paul Goude
795
00:42:00,651 --> 00:42:04,110
called “Rags by the Trade;
Girls by Antonio,”
796
00:42:04,221 --> 00:42:07,748
and the subtitle was “Antonio's Girls.”
797
00:42:07,858 --> 00:42:10,793
And then the subsequent book
that came out.
798
00:42:10,895 --> 00:42:15,662
Antonio's Girls consisted of people
Antonio had discovered
799
00:42:15,766 --> 00:42:18,997
and made over in the image
800
00:42:19,103 --> 00:42:21,003
that enhanced them the most
801
00:42:21,105 --> 00:42:24,268
in the most fashionable
and the most exciting way.
802
00:42:24,575 --> 00:42:26,839
The girls were very different,
803
00:42:26,944 --> 00:42:30,209
ethnically, physically, and mentally.
804
00:42:30,314 --> 00:42:33,113
They were all very exciting.
805
00:42:33,217 --> 00:42:35,982
They were either runway models
or even print models,
806
00:42:36,086 --> 00:42:39,579
but they were also very individualistic
807
00:42:39,690 --> 00:42:43,217
and just different from
your run-of-the-mill model
808
00:42:43,327 --> 00:42:44,692
or even woman.
809
00:42:44,795 --> 00:42:48,163
Tina Chow became a socialite
by marrying Michael Chow.
810
00:42:48,265 --> 00:42:51,064
Grace Jones became a singer.
811
00:42:51,168 --> 00:42:54,001
Jerry Hall became Jerry Hall.
812
00:42:54,104 --> 00:42:55,765
And Pat Cleveland is now an author.
813
00:42:55,873 --> 00:42:57,932
You know, it's just
like they all had careers
814
00:42:58,042 --> 00:43:02,240
that exceeded what you would consider
a regular modeling career.
815
00:43:02,346 --> 00:43:05,941
Jessica Lange and Patti D'Arbanville
became actresses
816
00:43:06,050 --> 00:43:11,113
soon after Antonio met them
and used them for his drawings.
817
00:43:11,221 --> 00:43:13,019
And I think he played a part in that.
818
00:43:13,123 --> 00:43:16,684
I think he encouraged them,
and they followed his advice.
819
00:43:19,630 --> 00:43:22,099
I was studying mime.
I was living in Paris.
820
00:43:22,199 --> 00:43:24,930
I'd been there for a couple years,
821
00:43:25,035 --> 00:43:28,061
completely broke, as you can imagine.
822
00:43:28,172 --> 00:43:30,903
And I had no idea who Antonio was.
823
00:43:31,008 --> 00:43:33,033
I don't know how he found me.
824
00:43:33,143 --> 00:43:37,671
But Antonio saw Jessica
and then lost her phone number.
825
00:43:37,781 --> 00:43:41,581
And so therefore, he put up these sighs
oh all the trees and the lampposts
826
00:43:41,685 --> 00:43:45,144
saying the blonde, American girl
named Jessica should call Antonio,
827
00:43:45,255 --> 00:43:46,916
and she called him.
828
00:43:47,024 --> 00:43:48,856
I was in New York,
829
00:43:48,959 --> 00:43:50,791
and I was going to the go-sees, right?
830
00:43:50,894 --> 00:43:53,989
And they were looking for some girls,
and I went into the studio.
831
00:43:54,098 --> 00:43:57,124
I see this girl sitting there
with runs in her stockings,
832
00:43:57,234 --> 00:44:00,033
and her wig kind of tipped over
oh the side of her head,
833
00:44:00,137 --> 00:44:04,096
and I thought, “Who is that girl?
She's amazing looking.”
834
00:44:04,208 --> 00:44:07,940
And they were sort of ignoring her,
and she said, “Oh, I don't get a chance.”
835
00:44:08,045 --> 00:44:10,013
I think she had a hangover or something.
836
00:44:10,114 --> 00:44:12,606
And I sort of, like, took her
and straightened her hair out.
837
00:44:12,716 --> 00:44:14,343
I said, “Oh, you don't worry about them.
838
00:44:14,652 --> 00:44:16,381
One day you're gonna be a star.”
839
00:44:16,687 --> 00:44:18,348
So I get to Paris,
840
00:44:18,656 --> 00:44:20,750
and I'm hanging out
with Antonio and the boys,
841
00:44:20,858 --> 00:44:22,826
and this girl, Grace Jones,
842
00:44:22,926 --> 00:44:25,657
she got into Island Records
843
00:44:25,763 --> 00:44:27,390
and she became a star.
844
00:44:29,033 --> 00:44:32,025
♪ Pull up to my bumper, baby ♪
845
00:44:32,136 --> 00:44:33,865
♪ in your long black limousine ♪
846
00:44:37,207 --> 00:44:40,233
♪ You pull up to my bumper, baby ♪
847
00:44:40,344 --> 00:44:43,109
♪ Drive it in between ♪
848
00:44:43,213 --> 00:44:47,650
Antonio knew, um,
instinctively what was coming up
849
00:44:47,751 --> 00:44:51,244
because he comes from the feeling
that you're liberated,
850
00:44:51,355 --> 00:44:55,758
you're free, you don't have to answer
to anyone for the feeling you have.
851
00:44:55,859 --> 00:44:57,384
♪ Love to love you, baby ♪
852
00:44:57,695 --> 00:45:02,098
He knew that his bisexuality
was way biased towards men,
853
00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:04,827
but he slept with many, many women too
854
00:45:04,935 --> 00:45:06,926
and totally appreciated women
855
00:45:07,037 --> 00:45:10,098
and loved them, and they loved him back.
856
00:45:10,207 --> 00:45:13,837
They were doomed to be disappointed
because he was a playboy.
857
00:45:13,944 --> 00:45:16,106
You know, he would go
from one person to the next.
858
00:45:16,213 --> 00:45:18,204
And even his boyfriends
didn't last that long.
859
00:45:18,315 --> 00:45:20,306
I mean, I'm sure,
like everybody else,
860
00:45:20,417 --> 00:45:23,250
I had a wild crush on Antonio.
861
00:45:23,353 --> 00:45:25,344
Didn't everybody?
862
00:45:25,456 --> 00:45:28,084
♪ Love to love you, baby ♪
863
00:45:28,192 --> 00:45:30,456
♪ Oh ♪
864
00:45:30,761 --> 00:45:32,422
♪ Love to love you, baby ♪
865
00:45:32,730 --> 00:45:35,961
I was crazy in love with him. Absolutely.
866
00:45:36,066 --> 00:45:39,434
I remember everybody
falling in love with Antonio.
867
00:45:39,737 --> 00:45:44,231
I think you couldn't meet him
and not fall in love with him.
868
00:45:44,341 --> 00:45:47,208
He was engaging, and he drew you in,
and he loved to-
869
00:45:47,311 --> 00:45:51,077
He was an incredible flirt.
He was so good at it.
870
00:45:51,181 --> 00:45:55,414
And he flirted with everybody-
man, woman, child, dog.
871
00:45:55,519 --> 00:45:58,489
You know, nobody was spared
from his charm.
872
00:45:58,789 --> 00:46:01,759
And he was one of the most
charming people I ever met.
873
00:46:01,859 --> 00:46:03,884
He was very easy
to fall in love with.
874
00:46:03,994 --> 00:46:06,326
You know, very easy
to get attached to.
875
00:46:06,430 --> 00:46:09,365
I did, as a teenager, for a little bit.
876
00:46:09,466 --> 00:46:11,400
Yeah, and then I fell in love with Juan.
877
00:46:11,502 --> 00:46:14,096
That's usually what happens.
878
00:46:14,204 --> 00:46:17,970
And then you have a different relationship
with Antonio after that.
879
00:46:18,075 --> 00:46:19,839
Because of the way Antonio was,
880
00:46:19,943 --> 00:46:22,002
which was he would get
very intimate very quickly
881
00:46:22,112 --> 00:46:23,773
with everybody
who was around him,
882
00:46:23,881 --> 00:46:25,371
especially people he was drawing,
883
00:46:25,482 --> 00:46:27,416
everybody felt very close to Antonio.
884
00:46:27,518 --> 00:46:27,761
Well, you become a part of him.
885
00:46:27,785 --> 00:46:29,344
Well, you become a part of him.
886
00:46:29,453 --> 00:46:32,423
You have been touched by him.
You've been polished up.
887
00:46:32,523 --> 00:46:34,184
He's like a jewel maker.
888
00:46:34,291 --> 00:46:36,123
If he saw you going too far off track,
889
00:46:36,226 --> 00:46:38,354
he'd grab you back
and not let you get away.
890
00:46:38,462 --> 00:46:40,157
Very protective.
891
00:46:40,264 --> 00:46:42,494
Very much like a big brother,
892
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,168
but a sort of forbidden relationship.
893
00:46:46,270 --> 00:46:50,503
Oh, yeah, there was a lot of competition
trying to get close to Antonio.
894
00:46:50,808 --> 00:46:55,302
But, you know, I think he gave everybody
all that he had, one person at a time,
895
00:46:55,412 --> 00:46:59,076
and then he set them on the road
and made sure they were okay.
896
00:46:59,183 --> 00:47:02,380
No, he didn't let you go
until you were safe.
897
00:47:02,486 --> 00:47:06,787
I had a crush on Antonio,
big time, of course.
898
00:47:06,890 --> 00:47:10,190
You can probably
count on one hand, you know,
899
00:47:10,294 --> 00:47:15,425
people who have that capacity for life
900
00:47:15,532 --> 00:47:19,400
that draws people into this circle.
901
00:47:19,503 --> 00:47:24,031
Because you just loved being with him.
902
00:47:24,141 --> 00:47:27,975
And when I say I had a crush on Antonio,
I really had a crush on him.
903
00:47:28,078 --> 00:47:30,137
I was crazy about him.
904
00:47:30,247 --> 00:47:32,477
Absolutely crazy about him.
905
00:47:32,583 --> 00:47:35,314
Well, with the dancing
with somebody like that,
906
00:47:35,419 --> 00:47:36,978
it's very intimate,
907
00:47:37,087 --> 00:47:39,181
and the longer you dance,
the more intimate it gets,
908
00:47:39,289 --> 00:47:40,882
and we danced all the time.
909
00:47:40,991 --> 00:47:44,928
And then it was a natural
progression into a bed,
910
00:47:45,028 --> 00:47:47,224
and-and that worked out well too.
911
00:47:47,331 --> 00:47:50,357
We were creative, and we'd stay up
until 3:00 in the morning, drawing,
912
00:47:50,467 --> 00:47:52,026
or later.
913
00:47:52,135 --> 00:47:56,003
Then we'd fall into bed and we'd either
not sleep or we would sleep,
914
00:47:56,106 --> 00:47:57,574
and it was-
915
00:47:57,875 --> 00:48:02,437
He was very talented
with his hands and with his eyes,
916
00:48:02,546 --> 00:48:05,413
and I didn't really care
that Juan was there
917
00:48:05,515 --> 00:48:07,176
or that anyone else was there.
918
00:48:07,284 --> 00:48:09,150
I was in love with him.
I just loved him.
919
00:48:09,253 --> 00:48:11,085
And they didn't seem to mind.
920
00:48:11,188 --> 00:48:13,418
And I would sleep
in Tony's bed and, you know,
921
00:48:13,523 --> 00:48:15,491
not all the time, and it would never-
922
00:48:15,592 --> 00:48:18,562
not even present itself
as a problem at all.
923
00:48:18,662 --> 00:48:21,029
Triangularity? There was-
924
00:48:21,131 --> 00:48:23,361
It was “chincanchalarity.”
There was-
925
00:48:23,467 --> 00:48:27,495
I mean, there were so many people involved.
Are you kidding me?
926
00:48:27,604 --> 00:48:32,166
The triangularity
didn't bother us, no.
927
00:48:33,443 --> 00:48:36,310
He was very sexual. Very sexual.
928
00:48:36,413 --> 00:48:41,317
And I think its hard to categorize sexuality
when someone is that sexual.
929
00:48:49,293 --> 00:48:50,658
I think he favored men,
930
00:48:50,961 --> 00:48:54,124
but it's a very complicated subject.
931
00:48:54,231 --> 00:48:56,666
I'm not a psychiatrist,
but he had four of them,
932
00:48:56,967 --> 00:49:00,369
and they were all
delving into it with him.
933
00:49:00,470 --> 00:49:03,235
He was very promiscuous.
Voracious.
934
00:49:03,340 --> 00:49:05,434
I think he was addicted to sex.
935
00:49:05,542 --> 00:49:07,340
He was so addicted to sex.
936
00:49:07,444 --> 00:49:09,469
That was, like, his major addiction.
937
00:49:09,579 --> 00:49:12,571
He drank socially.
He didn't smoke pot.
938
00:49:12,683 --> 00:49:14,549
He didn't even drink coffee that much.
939
00:49:14,651 --> 00:49:17,348
But he was addicted to sex.
940
00:49:17,454 --> 00:49:20,082
It was huge in his life.
941
00:49:20,190 --> 00:49:22,215
More important than anything else.
942
00:49:22,326 --> 00:49:25,421
Like, we would be at a business meeting
or a dinner at Mr. Chow's,
943
00:49:25,529 --> 00:49:28,055
and he would just, like,
keep looking at his watch.
944
00:49:28,165 --> 00:49:31,066
And Juan would roll his eyes
and say, “Oh, he's got a date.”
945
00:49:31,168 --> 00:49:33,296
And he would leave.
946
00:49:33,403 --> 00:49:35,599
That was this,
uh, “Love the one you're with,”
947
00:49:35,706 --> 00:49:38,698
and everything was funky
and free and colorful,
948
00:49:39,009 --> 00:49:41,979
and there was no boundary for him.
949
00:49:42,079 --> 00:49:47,210
He was sort of sorting through finding
who could be available for his art.
950
00:49:47,317 --> 00:49:50,685
You know, and that was the love affair
right there in itself.
951
00:49:50,988 --> 00:49:52,456
He could use you.
952
00:49:52,556 --> 00:49:55,253
Songs like Grace Jones'
“Use me till you use me up.”
953
00:49:55,359 --> 00:49:57,327
Oh, he could do that too, you know?
954
00:49:57,427 --> 00:49:59,657
He was very good.
955
00:49:59,763 --> 00:50:04,064
And so finally, you know,
New York was over at some point,
956
00:50:04,167 --> 00:50:08,161
and, uh, we had to go and be in Paris.
957
00:50:08,271 --> 00:50:09,432
♪ Ay ♪
958
00:50:10,540 --> 00:50:11,564
♪ Ay ♪
959
00:50:12,676 --> 00:50:14,974
♪ Ay-yi-yi ♪
960
00:50:16,580 --> 00:50:19,606
- ♪ Hey baby let me stay ♪
- When they went to Paris,
961
00:50:19,716 --> 00:50:22,151
they met up with Karl Lagerfeld,
962
00:50:22,252 --> 00:50:27,452
and I think more than
a romantic attitude towards Antonio,
963
00:50:27,557 --> 00:50:33,155
Lagerfeld felt,
“Ah, here's the fountain of ideas.”
964
00:50:33,263 --> 00:50:37,700
Lagerfeld had the affluence
to take care of the guys.
965
00:50:37,801 --> 00:50:41,135
There was a wonderful
give-and-take between them.
966
00:50:41,238 --> 00:50:43,536
What they brought to Paris
967
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,541
was an awareness
of ethnicity as beauty.
968
00:50:46,643 --> 00:50:48,611
Of course,
it was always in our DNA
969
00:50:48,712 --> 00:50:51,181
to incorporate a lot of ethnicity.
970
00:50:51,281 --> 00:50:53,340
You know, that's where fashion came from.
971
00:50:53,450 --> 00:50:57,148
Juan and Antonio had begun
already, in the mid-'60s in America,
972
00:50:57,254 --> 00:50:59,018
to use black models for Vogue,
973
00:50:59,122 --> 00:51:02,148
and they had a lot of trouble because
the women that ran Vogue in those days
974
00:51:02,259 --> 00:51:03,556
were not like today.
975
00:51:03,660 --> 00:51:07,028
They felt like there was
a latent racism at Vogue
976
00:51:07,130 --> 00:51:08,689
that was inhibiting their style.
977
00:51:08,799 --> 00:51:12,497
They wanted to draw black women,
and Vogue didn't want that,
978
00:51:12,602 --> 00:51:15,469
so they felt like they
had to go to Europe.
979
00:51:15,572 --> 00:51:17,597
When Elle magazine
called them from Paris,
980
00:51:17,707 --> 00:51:21,234
they jumped at the chance
because they were ready for a change,
981
00:51:21,344 --> 00:51:25,042
so they were not averse to Juan
and Antonio bringing over black models
982
00:51:25,148 --> 00:51:27,480
or Puerto Rican models or whatever
983
00:51:27,584 --> 00:51:29,552
and using them in their drawings.
984
00:51:29,653 --> 00:51:34,090
And I think that brought a lot of diversity
to the fashion scene,
985
00:51:34,191 --> 00:51:37,752
and it was ready
to be opened up at that point.
986
00:51:37,861 --> 00:51:39,386
It was a new era.
987
00:51:39,496 --> 00:51:45,435
It was the end of that staid,
haute couture, old-world salon.
988
00:51:45,535 --> 00:51:49,494
When Antonio and Juan
brought over Amina Warsuma,
989
00:51:49,606 --> 00:51:52,166
I remember Karl said of Amina,
990
00:51:52,275 --> 00:51:54,107
“That's the woman of the future.”
991
00:51:54,211 --> 00:51:56,145
He saw that
992
00:51:56,246 --> 00:51:59,511
that was the way out of the staleness
993
00:51:59,616 --> 00:52:01,744
that they were stuck in in Paris fashion.
994
00:52:01,852 --> 00:52:04,321
It must have been
a total explosion
995
00:52:04,421 --> 00:52:07,186
for these, you know, Americans
to come in like this,
996
00:52:07,290 --> 00:52:09,384
and Antonio really blew up.
997
00:52:09,493 --> 00:52:12,656
I mean, he was
the real, true vibration.
998
00:52:12,762 --> 00:52:16,096
Europe was renewing itself.
It was a renaissance.
999
00:52:16,199 --> 00:52:18,759
We were part of breaking through.
1000
00:52:18,869 --> 00:52:21,338
In about 1969, I got on a plane and went-
1001
00:52:21,438 --> 00:52:23,133
In the fall, I went to Paris.
1002
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:27,438
I knew that Antonio and Juan
had rented an apartment there,
1003
00:52:27,544 --> 00:52:31,538
and Donna Jordan
had gone to England first
1004
00:52:31,648 --> 00:52:33,480
to try to make her way there,
1005
00:52:33,583 --> 00:52:36,484
and Antonio had sent for her
to come to Paris
1006
00:52:36,586 --> 00:52:38,554
because he needed
an illustrating model.
1007
00:52:38,655 --> 00:52:42,182
I get this phone call, and he said,
“Do you want to come to Paris?”
1008
00:52:42,292 --> 00:52:44,693
And so I said, “Well, yeah.”
1009
00:52:44,794 --> 00:52:48,458
And then I went to Paris,
and my life changed, of course.
1010
00:52:48,565 --> 00:52:51,591
You know, I was living
in little hotels by night,
1011
00:52:51,701 --> 00:52:55,899
and by day, I was, um,
getting drawn by Antonio.
1012
00:52:56,206 --> 00:52:59,801
And then my life was more
the fashion, the runways,
1013
00:52:59,910 --> 00:53:03,210
the hanging out with Antonio and his
entourage, which was so much fun.
1014
00:53:03,313 --> 00:53:05,873
And then the fashion magazines.
1015
00:53:06,183 --> 00:53:10,313
My modeling career
was launched by Antonio.
1016
00:53:11,521 --> 00:53:13,353
I really never worked that much
in New York.
1017
00:53:13,456 --> 00:53:15,652
My whole career really took place in Europe
1018
00:53:15,759 --> 00:53:19,718
because, uh, Europe was much more
receptive to a face like mine.
1019
00:53:19,829 --> 00:53:22,730
Here, everything was like Cheryl Tiegs
1020
00:53:22,832 --> 00:53:25,858
and, you know,
your peaches-and-cream faces.
1021
00:53:25,969 --> 00:53:28,495
They weren't ready
for somebody like me,
1022
00:53:28,605 --> 00:53:31,870
and so I had a better chance in Europe
1023
00:53:31,975 --> 00:53:34,569
because they were more, uh, modern
1024
00:53:34,678 --> 00:53:36,237
and they were more receptive
1025
00:53:36,346 --> 00:53:38,314
to something that was not standard.
1026
00:53:38,415 --> 00:53:39,610
Lucky for me, you know.
1027
00:53:39,716 --> 00:53:41,810
I mean, Guy Bourdin
was a great photographer,
1028
00:53:41,918 --> 00:53:44,387
and I had a really great run with him.
1029
00:53:44,487 --> 00:53:47,548
And, uh, Helmut Newton.
All of them fantastic.
1030
00:53:47,657 --> 00:53:51,719
That would have never happened to me
had I not been in Europe.
1031
00:53:51,828 --> 00:53:54,957
Karl Lagerfeld
designed for Chloé at the time.
1032
00:53:55,265 --> 00:53:58,929
First of all, I had never seen
such a flamboyant man in my life,
1033
00:53:59,236 --> 00:54:03,696
and I had come from New York and I had
seen plenty of, you know, kooky stuff.
1034
00:54:03,807 --> 00:54:06,970
But to see a man
of that kind of presence,
1035
00:54:07,277 --> 00:54:10,713
obviously a well-established
professional-
1036
00:54:10,814 --> 00:54:13,840
Uh, he wasn't a drug addict.
He wasn't drinking.
1037
00:54:13,950 --> 00:54:16,920
And in broad daylight,
he was wearing-
1038
00:54:17,020 --> 00:54:20,354
I wouldn't even call it the male version
of what he was designing.
1039
00:54:20,457 --> 00:54:23,620
It was what he was designing for Chloé
is what he was wearing.
1040
00:54:23,727 --> 00:54:27,220
It was a three-piece-
a tunic, a blouse,
1041
00:54:27,330 --> 00:54:31,733
and these really, really wide sort of
“flowy” trousers with high-heeled boots.
1042
00:54:31,835 --> 00:54:35,430
And just kind of really moved quickly,
1043
00:54:35,538 --> 00:54:37,472
so everything was “flowy.”
1044
00:54:37,574 --> 00:54:40,942
He just really was very
respected in Saint-Germain.
1045
00:54:41,044 --> 00:54:43,342
You know, everyone adored him.
1046
00:54:43,446 --> 00:54:47,246
And he was always
a very generous person.
1047
00:54:47,350 --> 00:54:49,284
He would find things to give us.
1048
00:54:49,386 --> 00:54:52,014
And he would never say,
“Here, I want you to have this shirt.”
1049
00:54:52,322 --> 00:54:55,019
He would throw it at you, you know,
from across the room. “Here, my dear.”
1050
00:54:55,325 --> 00:54:57,316
And it would come flying
into your chest.
1051
00:54:57,427 --> 00:54:57,770
And he's quite
a formidable character,
1052
00:54:57,794 --> 00:55:00,991
And he's quite
a formidable character,
1053
00:55:01,298 --> 00:55:03,562
even back in those days.
1054
00:55:03,667 --> 00:55:06,034
Karl, at the time, was working at Chloé
1055
00:55:06,336 --> 00:55:08,031
and really making magic.
1056
00:55:08,338 --> 00:55:11,308
His designs were truly exceptional.
1057
00:55:11,408 --> 00:55:14,400
I think that probably the designer
1058
00:55:14,511 --> 00:55:16,843
that I looked forward most to see.
1059
00:55:16,946 --> 00:55:18,505
Him and Saint Laurent.
1060
00:55:18,615 --> 00:55:22,643
Karl's an extraordinary person also
for gathering people around him
1061
00:55:22,752 --> 00:55:28,418
and major people of the moment
that were very inspirational to him.
1062
00:55:28,525 --> 00:55:32,860
And I think Antonio was part
of that process, if you like.
1063
00:55:32,962 --> 00:55:35,363
You know, 'cause he had
all these women around him,
1064
00:55:35,465 --> 00:55:40,699
these great girls which, for sure,
had an influence on Karl.
1065
00:55:40,804 --> 00:55:43,034
They were very energy-giving.
1066
00:55:43,340 --> 00:55:44,808
Not that Karl needed extra energy,
1067
00:55:44,908 --> 00:55:46,706
'cause he's got tons and tons of it.
1068
00:55:46,810 --> 00:55:48,801
But it just was inspiring.
1069
00:55:48,912 --> 00:55:51,438
It's that American in Paris kind of feeling,
1070
00:55:51,548 --> 00:55:54,518
'cause all the girls
were kind of American too.
1071
00:55:58,755 --> 00:56:00,314
It was a very closed world.
1072
00:56:00,423 --> 00:56:02,414
It was not the Chloé we know now.
1073
00:56:02,525 --> 00:56:05,358
It was very, very traditional
French clothing.
1074
00:56:05,462 --> 00:56:07,794
And Karl was trying to open that up, I think.
1075
00:56:07,897 --> 00:56:12,858
When he saw Juan and Antonio, he realized
that this was the key to opening that door.
1076
00:56:12,969 --> 00:56:14,903
It was a talent for beauty.
1077
00:56:15,004 --> 00:56:17,701
Of course, Karl would want
to have that near him.
1078
00:56:17,807 --> 00:56:20,071
It was life-giving. It was inspiring.
1079
00:56:20,377 --> 00:56:24,507
Karl supplied everything
for them- the apartment, everything.
1080
00:56:24,614 --> 00:56:25,979
He dressed them.
1081
00:56:26,082 --> 00:56:28,346
On the other hand,
when he was at Chloé,
1082
00:56:28,451 --> 00:56:33,013
Juan and Antonio influenced
in the prints that Lagerfeld did.
1083
00:56:33,123 --> 00:56:35,057
All of them. Course they did.
1084
00:56:35,158 --> 00:56:37,593
I think Karl would be
the first one to say that.
1085
00:56:37,694 --> 00:56:40,823
And they were that period
and they were all the Chloé clothes
1086
00:56:40,930 --> 00:56:44,696
with the prints inspired
by Antonio and Juan.
1087
00:56:44,801 --> 00:56:46,360
And it was an even give.
1088
00:56:46,469 --> 00:56:49,097
It wasn't one was stealing
from the other or the other.
1089
00:56:49,406 --> 00:56:53,104
Then sometimes they would,
um, brainstorm outfits together.
1090
00:56:53,410 --> 00:56:55,071
They would be drawing buddies, you know,
1091
00:56:55,178 --> 00:56:58,671
and sometimes they'd get a piece of paper
and scribble on it together,
1092
00:56:58,782 --> 00:57:01,877
and Karl would say,
“What do you think of my drawing?
1093
00:57:01,985 --> 00:57:03,384
It's nothing like yours, Antonio.”
1094
00:57:03,486 --> 00:57:05,511
And he would get, like,
really disheartened.
1095
00:57:05,622 --> 00:57:08,091
“Well, you know what to do, darling.
Just make it look better.”
1096
00:57:08,191 --> 00:57:10,956
He would say that.
“I'll dress her and you draw her.”
1097
00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:13,791
Karl's intellectual and visual.
1098
00:57:13,897 --> 00:57:15,865
Antonio wasn't intellectual,
1099
00:57:15,965 --> 00:57:18,832
but he was visual and instinctive,
1100
00:57:18,935 --> 00:57:20,494
deeply instinctive.
1101
00:57:20,603 --> 00:57:23,800
I think that Karl,
Antonio, and Juan
1102
00:57:23,907 --> 00:57:28,105
all sort of fell into
a very comfortable relationship.
1103
00:57:28,211 --> 00:57:31,738
It just seemed to be very positive
and smooth and obviously creative.
1104
00:57:31,848 --> 00:57:34,613
It was obviously beneficial to all involved.
1105
00:57:34,717 --> 00:57:37,448
And it grew. It just sort of expanded.
1106
00:57:37,554 --> 00:57:40,717
I think that Karl
was very, very fond of Juan.
1107
00:57:40,824 --> 00:57:44,055
Juan and Karl became extremely close.
1108
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:47,027
Juan is- was a curator, an academic,
1109
00:57:47,130 --> 00:57:49,189
was, uh, curious, would go to museums,
1110
00:57:49,499 --> 00:57:51,092
would research,
1111
00:57:51,201 --> 00:57:54,068
and had an extremely acute knowledge
1112
00:57:54,170 --> 00:57:57,731
of art history, history, pop culture,
1113
00:57:57,841 --> 00:58:00,469
and therefore was the channel
of that, literally,
1114
00:58:00,577 --> 00:58:03,171
and was able to have a very unique,
1115
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,574
strong relationship with Karl Lagerfeld
1116
00:58:05,682 --> 00:58:08,481
based on Juan's qualities.
1117
00:58:08,585 --> 00:58:10,178
Well, there were many
drawing sessions
1118
00:58:10,487 --> 00:58:13,013
at the 134 Boulevard
Saint-Germain apartment
1119
00:58:13,122 --> 00:58:14,817
that Karl owned
1120
00:58:14,924 --> 00:58:17,916
and so generously lent
to Antonio and Juan.
1121
00:58:18,027 --> 00:58:20,724
And there were many
long drawing symposiums
1122
00:58:20,830 --> 00:58:23,822
using Eija Vehka Aho,
1123
00:58:23,933 --> 00:58:26,095
who is the incredible discovery,
1124
00:58:26,202 --> 00:58:30,230
a Finnish Woman
who was already in her late 20s
1125
00:58:30,540 --> 00:58:32,008
when she was discovered
1126
00:58:32,108 --> 00:58:35,772
and became an incredible muse
to Antonio, Karl, and Juan,
1127
00:58:35,879 --> 00:58:40,077
and who was the model upon which
were imposed these incredible ideas
1128
00:58:40,183 --> 00:58:42,515
that Antonio would sketch
1129
00:58:42,619 --> 00:58:46,180
while Karl would watch
and Juan would interpret.
1130
00:58:46,289 --> 00:58:49,520
His apartment in Paris was like the hub
1131
00:58:49,626 --> 00:58:51,253
of everything that was going on.
1132
00:58:56,533 --> 00:59:00,094
As a fashion editor, and also
as a photographer and artist,
1133
00:59:00,203 --> 00:59:02,934
you don't necessarily stay
in any one camp.
1134
00:59:03,039 --> 00:59:07,101
Obviously, he wasn't only
drawing Karl's clothes.
1135
00:59:07,210 --> 00:59:11,169
He was in the midst
of all those amazing people
1136
00:59:11,281 --> 00:59:16,151
like Kenzo and Sonia Rykiel
and Dorothée Bis and all those,
1137
00:59:16,252 --> 00:59:18,846
and he knew those collections
better than I did.
1138
00:59:18,955 --> 00:59:22,823
I would go over there with a suitcase full of
clothes and kind of leave them with him.
1139
00:59:22,926 --> 00:59:25,020
And then we'd all go out and have fun.
1140
00:59:25,128 --> 00:59:28,860
And it was kind of fantastic because, you know,
he's the one that accessorized them
1141
00:59:28,965 --> 00:59:30,558
and made them look good.
1142
00:59:30,667 --> 00:59:33,693
I could give him any old rubbish,
and he would make them look amazing.
1143
00:59:33,803 --> 00:59:37,603
Antonio was certainly a stylist.
He was a major stylist.
1144
00:59:37,707 --> 00:59:40,677
I was a baby at the business
when I met him,
1145
00:59:40,777 --> 00:59:44,077
and certainly I think
he probably taught me a lot.
1146
00:59:44,180 --> 00:59:48,811
You know, I wasn't very daring
about putting stuff together
1147
00:59:48,918 --> 00:59:50,784
and, you know, I really looked to him
1148
00:59:50,887 --> 00:59:55,324
as to what he put oh their feet
or in their hair
1149
00:59:55,625 --> 00:59:58,287
or how he tied the sleeves up
1150
00:59:58,595 --> 01:00:02,554
and had the strings flying
or whatever it was.
1151
01:00:02,665 --> 01:00:05,259
So he was inspirational to me, yes.
1152
01:00:06,736 --> 01:00:10,001
♪ If you feel like
You wanna scream ♪
1153
01:00:10,106 --> 01:00:12,734
♪ 'Cause that's your way
Of letting off steam ♪
1154
01:00:12,842 --> 01:00:14,833
♪ Scream on ♪
1155
01:00:16,346 --> 01:00:18,110
♪ Scream on ♪
1156
01:00:19,882 --> 01:00:21,907
He was like the center,
I believe, you know,
1157
01:00:22,018 --> 01:00:25,648
and Karl kind of flocked more
towards Antonio and Juan
1158
01:00:25,755 --> 01:00:27,655
more than the other way around.
1159
01:00:27,757 --> 01:00:30,158
Karl sort of
warmed up to the idea
1160
01:00:30,259 --> 01:00:34,753
of having this kind of
counterculture posse around him.
1161
01:00:34,864 --> 01:00:38,323
I think that he wanted
to maybe distinguish himself
1162
01:00:38,635 --> 01:00:41,730
from the other designers
in Paris at the time
1163
01:00:41,838 --> 01:00:44,000
who were more lodged in tradition.
1164
01:00:44,107 --> 01:00:47,270
And Juan and Antonio were very,
very instrumental in doing that.
1165
01:00:47,377 --> 01:00:50,039
I mean, I think, in a way,
they made him notorious.
1166
01:00:50,146 --> 01:00:52,706
I mean, he took that football
and ran with it.
1167
01:00:52,815 --> 01:00:55,045
And I don't think he's ever dropped it.
1168
01:00:55,151 --> 01:00:57,176
There were these rigid cliques.
1169
01:00:57,286 --> 01:00:59,186
There was the Karl Lagerfeld clique.
1170
01:00:59,288 --> 01:01:01,017
There was the Yves Saint Laurent clique.
1171
01:01:01,124 --> 01:01:03,616
And you really had to be very careful.
1172
01:01:03,726 --> 01:01:06,195
They didn't like you crossing borders.
1173
01:01:06,295 --> 01:01:07,922
It was very rigid.
1174
01:01:08,031 --> 01:01:09,760
The French are that way, you know,
1175
01:01:09,866 --> 01:01:11,698
and it was very hierarchal.
1176
01:01:11,801 --> 01:01:16,170
And we, of course, being Americans,
wanted to see everybody.
1177
01:01:16,272 --> 01:01:21,301
Karl was much more about having young,
talented people around him.
1178
01:01:21,411 --> 01:01:23,072
Yves was like Andy, in a way.
1179
01:01:23,179 --> 01:01:25,045
They were these kind of helpless,
1180
01:01:25,148 --> 01:01:28,641
seemingly weak,
effete kind of individuals
1181
01:01:28,751 --> 01:01:33,154
that needed, like, an entourage around them
to do everything for them.
1182
01:01:33,256 --> 01:01:35,247
Karl didn't need that.
1183
01:01:35,358 --> 01:01:39,727
Yves needed Betty Catroux
and Loulou de la Falaise
1184
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:42,196
to sort of give him ideas
of what women wanted to wear.
1185
01:01:42,298 --> 01:01:44,960
And he needed Pierre Bergé,
certainly, to handle the business.
1186
01:01:45,068 --> 01:01:48,265
Yves would have been a total
flop without Pierre Bergé.
1187
01:01:48,371 --> 01:01:51,272
It was just much more like a family,
1188
01:01:51,374 --> 01:01:54,833
and Karl's entourage didn't last.
1189
01:01:54,944 --> 01:01:58,278
Yves' stayed with him
right till the end of his life.
1190
01:01:58,381 --> 01:02:01,112
So I think the Saint Laurents
were a family.
1191
01:02:01,217 --> 01:02:04,016
I think the Lagerfelds
were an entourage.
1192
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:04,196
Yves was sort of
at the top of the mountain,
1193
01:02:04,220 --> 01:02:06,450
Yves was sort of
at the top of the mountain,
1194
01:02:06,756 --> 01:02:08,815
and Karl was kind of one of us.
1195
01:02:08,925 --> 01:02:11,451
Yves was not functional.
1196
01:02:11,761 --> 01:02:14,696
Between his nervous breakdown
when he went into the army
1197
01:02:14,797 --> 01:02:17,698
and the drugs, the substances,
the self-destruction,
1198
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:19,165
the self-hatred,
1199
01:02:19,268 --> 01:02:22,033
Yves always had someone to lean on,
which was Pierre.
1200
01:02:22,138 --> 01:02:24,300
You can really be self-destructive
if you have someone
1201
01:02:24,407 --> 01:02:26,068
who's gonna pick up the pieces.
1202
01:02:26,175 --> 01:02:29,042
Karl is entirely autonomous.
1203
01:02:29,145 --> 01:02:31,910
But I wouldn't call the people
around Yves a family.
1204
01:02:32,014 --> 01:02:34,745
It's more like a phalanx.
1205
01:02:34,851 --> 01:02:39,812
Whereas the people around Karl
are more like a mood board.
1206
01:02:39,922 --> 01:02:42,050
The Saint Laurent woman
was very different
1207
01:02:42,158 --> 01:02:44,024
from the Karl Lagerfeld woman.
1208
01:02:44,127 --> 01:02:48,758
Karl was much more daring
in his choice of muses.
1209
01:02:48,865 --> 01:02:51,163
Eija, Pat Cleveland,
1210
01:02:51,267 --> 01:02:56,171
being kind of exotic
and “exoticized” by the French.
1211
01:02:56,272 --> 01:02:59,333
I think Karl always saw himself
more as a modern man,
1212
01:02:59,442 --> 01:03:01,843
but he was always changing,
always evolving.
1213
01:03:01,944 --> 01:03:04,003
And Chloé, all of a sudden, was it.
1214
01:03:04,113 --> 01:03:07,310
And that was ready-to-wear,
but it was extremely well done,
1215
01:03:07,416 --> 01:03:11,876
and all the girls wanted ready-to-wear
and the ladies wanted Chloé.
1216
01:03:11,988 --> 01:03:14,320
Then Yves Saint Laurent
started Rive Gauche.
1217
01:03:14,423 --> 01:03:19,224
There were always these dramas and rivalries
involving these fashion people.
1218
01:03:19,328 --> 01:03:22,423
And everyone was accusing
everyone of copying.
1219
01:03:22,532 --> 01:03:24,193
But they were all friends.
1220
01:03:24,300 --> 01:03:25,927
You know, it was very French.
1221
01:03:26,035 --> 01:03:28,094
Well, Andy always said, you know, that,
1222
01:03:28,204 --> 01:03:33,142
“Oh, Bob, you know, Paris is so different
because they give dinners against people.
1223
01:03:33,242 --> 01:03:36,075
They give dinner parties
just so they can leave somebody out.
1224
01:03:36,179 --> 01:03:39,376
They don't give dinners for somebody,
like in New York.”
1225
01:03:39,482 --> 01:03:42,349
The whole thing was kind of absurd,
you know.
1226
01:03:42,451 --> 01:03:44,783
But Antonio
moved between both groups.
1227
01:03:44,887 --> 01:03:46,252
Didn't mean a thing.
1228
01:03:46,355 --> 01:03:49,518
If they were fun, Antonio was involved
and would play with them.
1229
01:03:49,826 --> 01:03:52,090
If they weren't fun,
if they were uptight, very snobby,
1230
01:03:52,195 --> 01:03:54,027
Antonio had no interest.
1231
01:03:54,130 --> 01:03:55,996
None at all.
1232
01:03:56,098 --> 01:04:00,501
I mean, he was-
he was the real thing, the real McCoy.
1233
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,537
I called ourselves
"Les Américains" in Paris
1234
01:04:06,843 --> 01:04:08,868
because it was like
the new café society.
1235
01:04:08,978 --> 01:04:12,915
We were always, always
hanging out at Café Flore.
1236
01:04:13,015 --> 01:04:16,144
We'd wake up in the morning,
like 12:30 in the afternoon,
1237
01:04:16,252 --> 01:04:17,913
and go to the Flore.
1238
01:04:18,020 --> 01:04:19,886
We'd be there drawing on the napkins
1239
01:04:19,989 --> 01:04:22,014
and putting our lipstick on with knives
1240
01:04:22,124 --> 01:04:25,059
and being really outrageous,
and Karl loved us.
1241
01:04:25,161 --> 01:04:26,890
All of our food would arrive,
1242
01:04:26,996 --> 01:04:29,124
and we'd do what we called
“crazy eating.”
1243
01:04:29,232 --> 01:04:31,326
And we'd stuff our mouths
like this with all our food
1244
01:04:31,434 --> 01:04:33,368
and talk and drink at the same time.
1245
01:04:33,469 --> 01:04:36,234
And somebody would get up on a table
with a champagne bottle-
1246
01:04:36,339 --> 01:04:39,172
usually me- and see how much
they could get down.
1247
01:04:39,275 --> 01:04:40,834
Usually a lot.
1248
01:04:40,943 --> 01:04:43,412
And we had people staring at us.
1249
01:04:43,512 --> 01:04:45,947
And the minute
we walked into a place, first of all,
1250
01:04:46,048 --> 01:04:49,484
it was quite a sight because everybody
was either really interesting looking
1251
01:04:49,585 --> 01:04:51,314
or very beautiful,
1252
01:04:51,420 --> 01:04:56,620
and we'd walk into La Coupole,
and every single solitary head would turn.
1253
01:04:56,926 --> 01:04:58,894
But I remember one time particularly,
1254
01:04:58,995 --> 01:05:00,520
that crazy crowd,
1255
01:05:00,630 --> 01:05:03,156
they're coming down
from Montmartre in a cab.
1256
01:05:03,266 --> 01:05:06,065
The feathers and the scarves
were blowing out the windows.
1257
01:05:06,168 --> 01:05:08,569
They're driving down through Paris
in a rickety old cab.
1258
01:05:08,671 --> 01:05:11,538
And Antonio, he saw somebody
and he said, “Stop!”
1259
01:05:11,641 --> 01:05:14,235
And there was a call girl,
a streetwalker,
1260
01:05:14,343 --> 01:05:16,471
and they said,
“Oh, would you want to be a model
1261
01:05:16,579 --> 01:05:19,139
in Lagerfeld's show this morning?”
1262
01:05:19,248 --> 01:05:22,115
So Karl dressed her,
and she came out in the show.
1263
01:05:22,218 --> 01:05:23,481
It was a sensation.
1264
01:05:23,586 --> 01:05:25,247
Their life was like that.
1265
01:05:25,354 --> 01:05:28,483
I mean, the place was alive
with talent and freedom.
1266
01:05:28,591 --> 01:05:30,559
Now everyone's so proper and so p-
1267
01:05:30,660 --> 01:05:32,458
Oh, baloney with that nonsense.
1268
01:05:39,969 --> 01:05:43,200
Yeah, that time in Paris
with Antonio was really-
1269
01:05:43,306 --> 01:05:46,469
It was- It was unique.
1270
01:05:46,575 --> 01:05:48,236
It was just fun, you know?
1271
01:05:48,344 --> 01:05:52,338
We were young
and we were having so much fun.
1272
01:05:52,448 --> 01:05:54,678
A lot of drugs, of course,
1273
01:05:54,984 --> 01:05:58,318
but as far as clubs,
I think it was really just the Club Sept.
1274
01:05:58,421 --> 01:06:02,449
We'd go out with Antonio
and have these great meals at Club Sept,
1275
01:06:02,558 --> 01:06:06,392
and then you'd go downstairs
and you would dance
1276
01:06:06,495 --> 01:06:08,463
until, like, dawn.
1277
01:06:08,564 --> 01:06:10,658
The big gay bar
at the time was Club Sept.
1278
01:06:10,967 --> 01:06:14,062
That was like the big bar, uh, in Paris.
1279
01:06:14,170 --> 01:06:16,298
Juan and Antonio used to
go there almost every night.
1280
01:06:16,405 --> 01:06:18,965
It was the first real dance club
1281
01:06:19,075 --> 01:06:21,567
that played good music
that you could dance to.
1282
01:06:21,677 --> 01:06:23,645
We were just there all the time.
1283
01:06:23,746 --> 01:06:27,546
Upstairs was a nice,
respectable dining area
1284
01:06:27,650 --> 01:06:31,109
that catered to all those, kind of,
quote, “bourgeois” French people
1285
01:06:31,220 --> 01:06:33,450
or poets or writers.
1286
01:06:33,556 --> 01:06:36,651
And then downstairs, of course,
was the discotheque.
1287
01:06:36,759 --> 01:06:40,093
You know, there are
just amazing stories,
1288
01:06:40,196 --> 01:06:42,290
mostly circling around Pat Cleveland
1289
01:06:42,398 --> 01:06:45,698
and her getting naked
on the dance floor, et cetera.
1290
01:06:46,002 --> 01:06:49,700
When you went to the Club Sept,
there was no boundary there
1291
01:06:50,006 --> 01:06:53,340
because all the boys used the girls' room
and the girls used the boys' room.
1292
01:06:53,442 --> 01:06:57,379
And everybody was dancing in the darkness
of the basement of the Club Sept
1293
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:01,348
and touching and feeling
and being together.
1294
01:07:01,450 --> 01:07:06,081
And all these creative people
in the world of art and fashion.
1295
01:07:06,188 --> 01:07:09,419
And when we danced,
the entire room would open up
1296
01:07:09,525 --> 01:07:13,052
because Antonio
had his crew of dancers,
1297
01:07:13,162 --> 01:07:16,029
and then there would be
other French dancers.
1298
01:07:16,132 --> 01:07:17,759
It was like a dance war.
1299
01:07:18,067 --> 01:07:21,037
We all just hang
and dance to the wee hours,
1300
01:07:21,137 --> 01:07:23,697
and there was never time to sleep.
1301
01:07:23,806 --> 01:07:28,539
Catch a few little shut-eyes
and then get right oh the, uh, runway.
1302
01:07:28,644 --> 01:07:31,614
I mean, we'd leave the Club Sept
and walk home, you know,
1303
01:07:31,714 --> 01:07:35,309
at, like, dawn, and Paris was just-
1304
01:07:35,418 --> 01:07:40,254
There was something just so alive
and sensual about everything,
1305
01:07:40,356 --> 01:07:43,621
you know, at that time.
1306
01:07:45,694 --> 01:07:48,163
In the early '70s,
I mean, to go to gay bars
1307
01:07:48,264 --> 01:07:50,232
and, you know, dance to disco music
1308
01:07:50,332 --> 01:07:53,791
was all a very sort of,
um, particular thing to do,
1309
01:07:54,103 --> 01:07:56,231
and it was really
the fashion people, I would say,
1310
01:07:56,338 --> 01:08:00,673
who were in the vanguard
of that movement.
1311
01:08:00,776 --> 01:08:03,438
I was editor of Interview.Interview was really tiny.
1312
01:08:03,546 --> 01:08:06,743
I mean, in 1970,
the print run was 5,000.
1313
01:08:06,849 --> 01:08:11,411
Maybe it was 20,000 by 1973 or '74.
1314
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:13,818
But it was like
the school newspaper of Club Sept,
1315
01:08:14,123 --> 01:08:15,522
and it was really fun.
1316
01:08:15,624 --> 01:08:19,254
But it was a very small scene.
It was a very inside thing.
1317
01:08:19,361 --> 01:08:22,331
And, uh, Jerry Hall
was discovered there by Antonio.
1318
01:08:26,202 --> 01:08:29,297
Antonio was at Club Sept,
and he saw Jerry there
1319
01:08:29,405 --> 01:08:34,536
and came home that night and said that
he had seen the ultimate Antonio girl.
1320
01:08:34,643 --> 01:08:37,738
This girl was one of his drawings
come to life.
1321
01:08:39,248 --> 01:08:42,843
She had just arrived from Texas
at the age of 17,
1322
01:08:43,152 --> 01:08:47,646
and he took her under his wing
and he started to model her
1323
01:08:47,756 --> 01:08:49,781
into what she would later become,
1324
01:08:49,892 --> 01:08:51,826
as far as the way she looked.
1325
01:08:52,128 --> 01:08:55,621
It was Antonio
who created Jerry Hall as we knew her.
1326
01:08:55,731 --> 01:08:59,190
He said, “I'd like to draw you.”
She said, “Well, I have no place to stay.”
1327
01:08:59,301 --> 01:09:03,135
“Come and live with us.” I mean,
it was that way. It was that openness.
1328
01:09:03,239 --> 01:09:05,333
And Jerry was marvelous.
1329
01:09:05,441 --> 01:09:07,307
I always called her “Tex.”
1330
01:09:07,409 --> 01:09:10,777
And also they became lovers
and she moved in with us.
1331
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:13,247
And so it was no longer
Juan, Antonio, and me.
1332
01:09:13,349 --> 01:09:15,317
It was Juan, Antonio, Jerry, and me
1333
01:09:15,417 --> 01:09:18,216
all living together
in this new apartment that we had.
1334
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:20,414
And that lasted for a couple years,
1335
01:09:20,523 --> 01:09:22,423
until we all came back to America.
1336
01:09:22,525 --> 01:09:23,890
She was a real handful.
1337
01:09:24,193 --> 01:09:27,424
Very young, but she knew
exactly what she wanted.
1338
01:09:27,530 --> 01:09:30,693
Okay, girls.
And a-one, and a-two, and a-three-
1339
01:09:30,799 --> 01:09:33,291
♪ Come on, baby light my fire ♪
1340
01:09:33,402 --> 01:09:35,598
♪ Try to set the night on fire ♪
1341
01:09:35,704 --> 01:09:38,401
♪ Merry Christmas to you ♪
1342
01:09:38,507 --> 01:09:40,202
Okay, what are we gonna sing now?
1343
01:09:40,309 --> 01:09:42,710
♪ I got a hot rod Ford
And a two-dollar bill ♪
1344
01:09:42,811 --> 01:09:44,779
I felt so good when I saw her.
1345
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:46,905
I thought, “Now I can leave.”
1346
01:09:47,216 --> 01:09:49,776
Because you don't want to
leave him without a muse.
1347
01:09:49,885 --> 01:09:52,752
So, I felt like I passed my torch to her.
1348
01:09:52,855 --> 01:09:56,416
Well, you know, you got to have
somebody to play off of, you know.
1349
01:09:56,525 --> 01:09:58,892
It's the male-female thing sometimes.
1350
01:09:59,195 --> 01:10:01,357
That is very appealing, you know.
1351
01:10:01,463 --> 01:10:04,228
And I think she was right
at that right moment.
1352
01:10:04,333 --> 01:10:06,427
Not that we all didn't have a piece.
1353
01:10:06,535 --> 01:10:08,902
She just came in that moment.
We had him before.
1354
01:10:09,205 --> 01:10:11,572
I thought she was great.
She was very funny.
1355
01:10:11,674 --> 01:10:13,438
She was fun to be around.
1356
01:10:13,542 --> 01:10:15,510
She had the Texan twang,
1357
01:10:15,611 --> 01:10:19,343
and it was so thick that you almost
didn't believe it, you know.
1358
01:10:19,448 --> 01:10:22,509
You always think you'd wake her up
and she'd talk normal.
1359
01:10:22,618 --> 01:10:26,748
She was always wild
and-and ready for anything,
1360
01:10:26,855 --> 01:10:31,656
but he really turned her
into something extraordinary.
1361
01:10:42,404 --> 01:10:44,873
Everybody was used to
Antonio's outrageous activities.
1362
01:10:44,974 --> 01:10:47,534
He had affairs with other girls,
other women.
1363
01:10:47,643 --> 01:10:49,907
It was like every week,
a different boyfriend or girlfriend.
1364
01:10:50,012 --> 01:10:52,777
It was not something that- I mean,
maybe they were a little bit surprised
1365
01:10:52,881 --> 01:10:55,851
by how long it lasted,
'cause it lasted a long time.
1366
01:10:55,951 --> 01:11:00,946
And I remember even at one time,
Jerry, in her 17-year-old naïveté,
1367
01:11:01,257 --> 01:11:05,558
came up to Juan and me and said, “Antonio
and I decided that you guys have to move out.”
1368
01:11:05,661 --> 01:11:07,686
Well, Juan took care of that.
1369
01:11:07,796 --> 01:11:11,960
He slammed the door, and there was this
glass panel in the door, and it shattered.
1370
01:11:12,268 --> 01:11:13,292
Y'all look.
1371
01:11:14,503 --> 01:11:17,438
I took a picture of all y'all.
1372
01:11:17,539 --> 01:11:21,373
In my first job with her
in Jamaica with Parkinson,
1373
01:11:21,477 --> 01:11:24,606
I guess she was just
starting to make it big,
1374
01:11:24,713 --> 01:11:26,647
and we went to the airport
to pick her up.
1375
01:11:26,749 --> 01:11:29,343
And this incredible woman stepped out
1376
01:11:29,451 --> 01:11:32,421
with a floor-length fur coat,
1377
01:11:32,521 --> 01:11:38,290
kind of waving
like some gorgeous film star.
1378
01:11:38,394 --> 01:11:40,362
I was a little shocked
because, you know,
1379
01:11:40,462 --> 01:11:42,954
it was 90 degrees-
1380
01:11:43,065 --> 01:11:46,433
And you didn't really need a coat,
let alone a fur coat.
1381
01:11:46,535 --> 01:11:50,438
But it was obviously one of her big dreams
was to own a fur coat.
1382
01:11:50,539 --> 01:11:52,803
With her first big check,
she ran out and bought one
1383
01:11:52,908 --> 01:11:55,309
and she was determined to wear it.
1384
01:11:56,578 --> 01:11:57,977
Even to Jamaica.
1385
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:00,777
And she's a very, very glamorous girl.
1386
01:12:00,883 --> 01:12:05,616
At this time,
Antonio was dating Jerry Hall.
1387
01:12:05,721 --> 01:12:07,746
I was told that they were engaged.
1388
01:12:07,856 --> 01:12:10,689
I'm sure it was Parkinson's idea,
and he said, you know,
1389
01:12:10,793 --> 01:12:13,922
“Let's take them to Jamaica
like a honeymoon couple.”
1390
01:12:14,029 --> 01:12:17,488
And we went off to the Jamaica Inn
in Ocho Rios.
1391
01:12:17,599 --> 01:12:19,624
We gave them the honeymoon cottage,
1392
01:12:19,735 --> 01:12:23,069
and we did this series of pictures,
which are quite lovely.
1393
01:12:23,372 --> 01:12:24,806
And we had so much fun.
1394
01:12:24,907 --> 01:12:28,844
And all the way through,
Antonio was filming Jerry.
1395
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:35,440
Antonio, take a picture of me!
1396
01:12:35,551 --> 01:12:37,747
- I'll say a few words.
- Sing a few words.
1397
01:12:37,853 --> 01:12:40,982
♪ Chantilly lace, hair and face ♪
1398
01:12:41,090 --> 01:12:43,923
♪ A ponytail ♪
1399
01:12:44,026 --> 01:12:47,587
♪ And a wiggle and a walk
Giggle in her talk ♪
1400
01:12:47,696 --> 01:12:49,824
♪ Makes the world go round
Round, round ♪
1401
01:12:49,932 --> 01:12:52,629
♪ Ain't nothin' in the world
Like a blue-eyed girl ♪
1402
01:12:52,735 --> 01:12:56,433
♪ To make me act so funny
Spend all my money ♪
1403
01:12:56,538 --> 01:12:58,632
And they were
an amazing couple together.
1404
01:12:58,741 --> 01:13:02,371
I mean, we even took them to a church
and kind of married them.
1405
01:13:03,712 --> 01:13:07,615
♪ Going to the chapel, baby ♪
1406
01:13:07,716 --> 01:13:11,710
♪ Gonna get married ♪
1407
01:13:11,820 --> 01:13:16,849
♪ Goin' to the chapel of love ♪
1408
01:13:16,959 --> 01:13:19,621
We got married. Hmm!
1409
01:13:19,728 --> 01:13:23,460
I'm so embarrassed.
I don't know what to do with myself.
1410
01:13:23,565 --> 01:13:26,034
I think I'll hide.
1411
01:13:26,135 --> 01:13:27,694
That's enough.
1412
01:13:31,673 --> 01:13:34,643
I always thought Antonio was with Juan,
1413
01:13:34,743 --> 01:13:39,010
so I was a little surprised
when he was engaged to Jerry.
1414
01:13:39,114 --> 01:13:41,742
But, uh, it's not up to me
to ask questions.
1415
01:13:41,850 --> 01:13:44,581
Um, they seemed to be
having a lovely time,
1416
01:13:44,686 --> 01:13:48,088
and they were a beautiful couple
and they were so much fun.
1417
01:13:48,190 --> 01:13:50,682
- Is this on, Antonio?
- Say merry Christmas, Jerry.
1418
01:13:50,793 --> 01:13:53,694
♪ Merry Christmas to me ♪
1419
01:13:53,796 --> 01:13:55,662
Merry Christmas, Santa.
1420
01:13:55,764 --> 01:13:58,631
- Merry Christmas, Antonio.
- Boy, you look great, John.
1421
01:13:58,734 --> 01:14:02,170
Jerry and Antonio,
they believed that they were engaged.
1422
01:14:02,471 --> 01:14:04,530
They wanted it to be true.
1423
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:09,874
Eventually, reality set in
and it kind of dissipated.
1424
01:14:11,747 --> 01:14:14,910
I know that Bryan Ferry
was very smitten with her,
1425
01:14:15,017 --> 01:14:17,577
and soon after her relationship
with Antonio ended,
1426
01:14:17,686 --> 01:14:19,654
she was with Bryan.
1427
01:14:21,223 --> 01:14:25,751
Jerry Hall and Grace Jones
lived together at the Crystal Hotel.
1428
01:14:25,861 --> 01:14:27,590
They had the ground floor.
1429
01:14:27,696 --> 01:14:31,132
They had a window that actually
looked out onto the street.
1430
01:14:31,233 --> 01:14:35,864
Sometimes, at night, they would pull
the curtains open on the Window
1431
01:14:35,971 --> 01:14:39,032
and they would dance in the window,
the two of them together.
1432
01:14:39,141 --> 01:14:40,973
Usually when they were stoned.
1433
01:14:41,076 --> 01:14:44,603
And have a- like a little show for people
walking by in the street.
1434
01:14:44,713 --> 01:14:46,545
Then they would quickly
close the curtains again.
1435
01:14:46,648 --> 01:14:50,585
Until they got kicked out of the hotel.
I mean, we all got kicked out.
1436
01:14:50,686 --> 01:14:52,518
I thought Paul was great.
1437
01:14:52,621 --> 01:14:54,111
Paul Caranicas was, I thought,
1438
01:14:54,223 --> 01:14:57,887
one of the best things
that happened to that whole group.
1439
01:14:57,993 --> 01:15:01,224
And I went to Paris to paint,
and right away, you know,
1440
01:15:01,530 --> 01:15:03,555
we were kindred spirits-
Juan, Antonio, and I.
1441
01:15:03,665 --> 01:15:06,691
We were- We hit it off
and we all became friends.
1442
01:15:06,802 --> 01:15:10,033
I became closer with Juan,
and eventually Juan became my boyfriend,
1443
01:15:10,138 --> 01:15:13,199
and that was 1972.
1444
01:15:13,509 --> 01:15:17,173
When Juan and I became partners,
it was just Juan and me.
1445
01:15:17,279 --> 01:15:20,647
We didn't, like, do group sex
and things like that.
1446
01:15:20,749 --> 01:15:25,243
And Antonio continued with his, uh,
many boyfriends and girlfriends.
1447
01:15:25,554 --> 01:15:27,784
But we were very close spiritually,
all of us.
1448
01:15:27,890 --> 01:15:30,951
But I think also between Juan and Antonio,
it created a lot of friction
1449
01:15:31,059 --> 01:15:32,891
because they had been lovers.
1450
01:15:32,995 --> 01:15:35,987
I remember once we had
a huge fight in a restaurant,
1451
01:15:36,098 --> 01:15:38,157
and Karl was there,
and Antonio reached across-
1452
01:15:38,267 --> 01:15:40,964
He was wearing this ring
and he reached across the table
1453
01:15:41,069 --> 01:15:44,937
and punched Juan in the face
and out his eye really badly.
1454
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:47,065
And Karl and I took Juan
to the hospital,
1455
01:15:47,175 --> 01:15:50,110
and he had to have stitches.
1456
01:15:50,212 --> 01:15:52,704
As Antonio brought in
his group of people,
1457
01:15:52,814 --> 01:15:55,511
Karl was very welcoming
and very generous, you know.
1458
01:15:55,617 --> 01:15:58,143
He took us to Saint-Tropez
that first summer.
1459
01:15:58,253 --> 01:16:00,881
I think the first time he felt comfortable
1460
01:16:00,989 --> 01:16:03,981
to kind of have fun was in Saint-Tropez.
1461
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,833
Three or four summers,
they went down to Saint-Tropez,
1462
01:16:14,937 --> 01:16:17,872
and Karl would rent
a different villa each time.
1463
01:16:17,973 --> 01:16:20,601
It was so fabulous to be
in the Saint-Tropez.
1464
01:16:20,709 --> 01:16:22,837
I mean, in 1970, it was still raw.
1465
01:16:22,945 --> 01:16:24,913
We stayed in beautiful places.
1466
01:16:25,013 --> 01:16:27,107
We dined in great restaurants.
1467
01:16:27,215 --> 01:16:29,877
We went dancing when we could
and then there was the beach all day.
1468
01:16:29,985 --> 01:16:31,680
That's all we did was beach.
1469
01:16:31,787 --> 01:16:35,121
Donna and I would swim
with sunglasses, high heels, and diamonds.
1470
01:16:35,223 --> 01:16:38,853
I had arms full of diamond bangles
on the beach.
1471
01:16:38,961 --> 01:16:42,693
We would get on the boat,
like one of those Rivas,
1472
01:16:42,798 --> 01:16:46,200
and go from the port
in Saint-Tropez
1473
01:16:46,301 --> 01:16:48,326
to the beach on the boat,
1474
01:16:48,637 --> 01:16:52,301
and Karl would, like, have on one of
those little 1920s bathing suits
1475
01:16:52,608 --> 01:16:54,269
with the straps that go up.
1476
01:16:54,376 --> 01:16:56,140
He had these huge muscles.
1477
01:16:56,244 --> 01:17:00,203
We would be spreading
that Bain de Soleil all over our bodies.
1478
01:17:00,315 --> 01:17:03,808
And Karl, you know,
he just supplied us with our needs.
1479
01:17:03,919 --> 01:17:07,253
And the house we stayed at
was in the middle of the grape vineyards,
1480
01:17:07,356 --> 01:17:11,088
and we had our own pool,
and we were just having the best time.
1481
01:17:11,193 --> 01:17:13,218
Wherever we went
in the south of France,
1482
01:17:13,328 --> 01:17:16,298
people would follow us
and try to follow us home.
1483
01:17:16,398 --> 01:17:20,198
And then it would be, “No, no, no, no,
we're not bringing the whole club over here.”
1484
01:17:20,302 --> 01:17:24,830
It was sort of a swell
of recognition that we sensed.
1485
01:17:24,940 --> 01:17:29,241
Peoples attitudes towards us
and the momentum around Donna.
1486
01:17:29,344 --> 01:17:31,642
It was just an amazing time.
1487
01:17:31,747 --> 01:17:34,910
I mean, you're in Saint-Tropez.
You're in a gorgeous place.
1488
01:17:35,017 --> 01:17:37,384
You're in a- You know,
it was like fantasyland.
1489
01:17:37,686 --> 01:17:39,381
It was fantastic.
1490
01:17:45,227 --> 01:17:47,958
This was probably
our third season with Karl
1491
01:17:48,063 --> 01:17:50,828
when he said, “And here is Jacques.”
1492
01:17:52,968 --> 01:17:55,130
And we just kind of went-
1493
01:17:55,237 --> 01:17:58,969
Like we knew
it was gonna be something in the mix
1494
01:17:59,074 --> 01:18:02,044
that was gonna be difficult.
1495
01:18:02,144 --> 01:18:04,044
We kind of saw the writing on the wall.
1496
01:18:04,146 --> 01:18:05,944
I mean, artistically, the collaboration
1497
01:18:06,048 --> 01:18:10,042
between Karl Lagerfeld, Antonio Lopez,
and Juan Ramos was indelible.
1498
01:18:10,152 --> 01:18:13,178
Like, nothing could really shake it
1499
01:18:13,288 --> 01:18:17,782
except Karts attention to other matters,
like romance.
1500
01:18:17,893 --> 01:18:21,693
Jacques drove a wedge
between Juan, Antonio, and Karl.
1501
01:18:21,797 --> 01:18:24,391
The fact that he was so close
to Karl so quickly-
1502
01:18:24,700 --> 01:18:27,897
And he became close to Yves too,
and he had ah affair with Yves, in fact.
1503
01:18:28,003 --> 01:18:31,906
So, you know, he was in there
to make trouble, and he did.
1504
01:18:32,007 --> 01:18:33,907
So much fuss was being made
over this guy
1505
01:18:34,009 --> 01:18:36,000
who, basically, he had no talent at all
1506
01:18:36,111 --> 01:18:38,842
at doing anything but making trouble.
1507
01:18:38,947 --> 01:18:41,973
I'm sure Jacques didn't want Antonio
and-and Juan around.
1508
01:18:42,084 --> 01:18:46,248
The aura that Jacques
carried and constructed
1509
01:18:46,354 --> 01:18:49,847
was this sort of dirty, bad sex.
1510
01:18:49,958 --> 01:18:52,450
It was very S and M oriented,
1511
01:18:52,761 --> 01:18:55,128
and Jacques was really
into that scene.
1512
01:18:55,230 --> 01:18:58,165
He was kind of
taking over, taking control.
1513
01:18:58,266 --> 01:19:00,394
The chemistry definitely changed.
1514
01:19:06,975 --> 01:19:10,309
Fred and Andy bought an apartment
on Rue du Cherche-Midi,
1515
01:19:10,412 --> 01:19:13,245
so that put Andy and Fred into the middle
1516
01:19:13,348 --> 01:19:17,046
of this Parisian social and fashion world.
1517
01:19:17,152 --> 01:19:20,247
When Andy came, he was making
this movie called L'Amour,
1518
01:19:20,355 --> 01:19:23,484
where Karl was playing this guy
who's in love with Patti.
1519
01:19:23,792 --> 01:19:28,127
And it was really the story
of these two hippie girls in Paris
1520
01:19:28,230 --> 01:19:30,096
becoming glamour girls.
1521
01:19:30,198 --> 01:19:33,498
I think they were thinking somewhat
about the idea of L'Amour.
1522
01:19:33,802 --> 01:19:36,362
Originally, it was going
to be called The Beauties,
1523
01:19:36,471 --> 01:19:40,965
and it was sort of the story of Jane Forth
and Donna Jordan coming to Paris,
1524
01:19:41,076 --> 01:19:44,512
meeting me, being transformed
into these gold-digger beauties
1525
01:19:44,813 --> 01:19:46,372
and finding rich husbands.
1526
01:19:46,481 --> 01:19:48,973
They wanted me
to play Karl Lagerfeld's wife,
1527
01:19:49,084 --> 01:19:51,382
and that's how I met Karl.
1528
01:19:51,486 --> 01:19:51,763
Karl Lagerfeld
so generously lent his apartment
1529
01:19:51,787 --> 01:19:54,848
Karl Lagerfeld
so generously lent his apartment
1530
01:19:54,956 --> 01:19:58,483
in which we shot the opening scenes
and some of the later scenes.
1531
01:19:58,794 --> 01:20:02,389
Andy was always,
in my opinion, bored stiff on set.
1532
01:20:02,497 --> 01:20:05,467
He was just there
'cause his name was there
1533
01:20:05,567 --> 01:20:07,934
and he wanted to see
What would happen.
1534
01:20:08,036 --> 01:20:10,061
It's the only reason he was anywhere,
1535
01:20:10,172 --> 01:20:12,197
is that he wanted to see
What would happen.
1536
01:20:12,307 --> 01:20:15,140
I had
the Warhol connection already
1537
01:20:15,243 --> 01:20:17,143
from Max's and New York,
1538
01:20:17,245 --> 01:20:20,510
but it was Jane
that was more the Warhol star.
1539
01:20:20,816 --> 01:20:22,409
Shed already been filmed in Trash,
1540
01:20:22,517 --> 01:20:25,851
so she already had the experience
with Andy Warhol.
1541
01:20:25,954 --> 01:20:28,889
It was exciting
because the way they made the film
1542
01:20:28,990 --> 01:20:33,359
is that Paul would just go off
to shoot for an afternoon with the cast.
1543
01:20:33,461 --> 01:20:35,793
They were doing reality television.
1544
01:20:35,897 --> 01:20:37,797
They were not really scripted.
1545
01:20:37,899 --> 01:20:40,334
Basically, Paul would
feed them mostly direction
1546
01:20:40,435 --> 01:20:42,529
right on the set as they were filming.
1547
01:20:42,838 --> 01:20:46,001
Donna Jordan was a star,
and Jane Forth was a star,
1548
01:20:46,107 --> 01:20:49,304
and somehow
Karl got in there as a lover.
1549
01:20:49,411 --> 01:20:51,402
I mean, he was really kissing me.
1550
01:20:51,513 --> 01:20:55,006
Like deep, thrusting, passionate kissing.
1551
01:20:55,116 --> 01:21:00,020
I think Karl was totally at home,
as you can see in the film.
1552
01:21:00,121 --> 01:21:01,589
He's very comfortable.
1553
01:21:01,890 --> 01:21:04,916
And don't forget, you know,
this is all spontaneous.
1554
01:21:05,026 --> 01:21:07,961
And for him to deal with,
like, these kooky characters-
1555
01:21:08,063 --> 01:21:11,328
A lot of them, you know,
were not sober and using drugs,
1556
01:21:11,433 --> 01:21:13,424
and yet he was a constant thread.
1557
01:21:13,535 --> 01:21:16,004
He did stay in character and totally got it
1558
01:21:16,104 --> 01:21:18,300
and was pretty campy
about the whole thing.
1559
01:21:18,406 --> 01:21:20,431
Where is he?
1560
01:21:20,542 --> 01:21:22,135
Karl!
1561
01:21:23,311 --> 01:21:26,281
Oh, hi. Another girl.
1562
01:21:26,381 --> 01:21:27,871
- Nice.
- You like it?
1563
01:21:27,983 --> 01:21:29,576
- Sure, it's great.
- I'm not sure about it though.
1564
01:21:29,885 --> 01:21:32,286
Stay off the tranquilizers.
You'll be another Marilyn Monroe.
1565
01:21:32,387 --> 01:21:33,946
You know, Karl was right.
1566
01:21:34,055 --> 01:21:36,319
It was, uh, childish moviemaking
at its best.
1567
01:21:36,424 --> 01:21:39,951
A lot of drugs and a lot of alcohol,
but that's my perspective.
1568
01:21:40,061 --> 01:21:41,995
The thing that
I remember most about L'Amour
1569
01:21:42,097 --> 01:21:43,929
is a tiny little scene
1570
01:21:44,032 --> 01:21:47,991
of Karl and another man
outside the Saint-Germain drugstore,
1571
01:21:48,103 --> 01:21:50,299
which is an equivocal little moment
1572
01:21:50,405 --> 01:21:52,567
because, of course, that's where guys
used to pick guys up.
1573
01:21:52,674 --> 01:21:55,473
I supposed it was a reality show
before its time
1574
01:21:55,577 --> 01:21:58,308
because French Vogue
went crazy about Donna
1575
01:21:58,413 --> 01:22:01,178
and put her on the cover
of Le Numéro Pop
1576
01:22:01,283 --> 01:22:04,253
because she was in Andy's movie
1577
01:22:04,352 --> 01:22:08,289
and Karl's clothes were sort of pop.
1578
01:22:08,390 --> 01:22:11,883
I mean, it wasn't really
explicit in an X-rated way,
1579
01:22:11,993 --> 01:22:14,155
but it was like all this stuff
that was going on
1580
01:22:14,262 --> 01:22:18,358
that nobody really was
documenting in film other than Andy.
1581
01:22:20,302 --> 01:22:23,294
So, I think L'Amour was a slice of life
1582
01:22:23,405 --> 01:22:28,206
of what was going on with a certain group
in Paris fashion world at the time.
1583
01:22:28,310 --> 01:22:30,301
They were more focused
on what was going on
1584
01:22:30,412 --> 01:22:34,940
in the world of Karl Lagerfeld, Antonio Lopez,
Donna Jordan, and Jane Forth
1585
01:22:35,050 --> 01:22:37,246
than they were
on the Yves Saint Laurent group.
1586
01:22:39,454 --> 01:22:42,116
And unfortunately,
Antonio and Juan, I think,
1587
01:22:42,223 --> 01:22:45,124
again went to Japan for a huge job,
and they weren't around.
1588
01:22:45,226 --> 01:22:48,560
They obviously would have been stars
of the- of the movie as well.
1589
01:22:48,663 --> 01:22:51,291
And he was probably
meeting Tina Chow.
1590
01:22:51,399 --> 01:22:54,562
Yeah, because it was Antonio
who introduced Tina to Michael,
1591
01:22:54,669 --> 01:22:57,969
so Antonio must have
been working with Tina in Tokyo.
1592
01:23:04,212 --> 01:23:07,204
♪ Pink Pop, Pink Pop, Pink Pop ♪
1593
01:23:13,621 --> 01:23:19,060
Adelle Lutz and Tina Chow
were modeling in Tokyo, in Japan,
1594
01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:22,460
and Juan and Antonio
went to Tokyo to work
1595
01:23:22,564 --> 01:23:25,556
and right away was attracted to them
1596
01:23:25,667 --> 01:23:28,693
because they were half American
and half Japanese
1597
01:23:29,004 --> 01:23:32,702
and very exotic and yet very familiar.
1598
01:23:33,008 --> 01:23:35,636
So, he started drawing them right away
1599
01:23:35,744 --> 01:23:37,405
and using them as models.
1600
01:23:37,512 --> 01:23:39,503
And then when they returned to Paris,
1601
01:23:39,614 --> 01:23:42,584
he used her over and over again
as a model
1602
01:23:42,684 --> 01:23:44,311
until she got married.
1603
01:23:44,419 --> 01:23:47,320
Tina Chow was a magical person.
1604
01:23:47,422 --> 01:23:51,416
She was truly seductive
in an innocent way,
1605
01:23:51,526 --> 01:23:53,756
and she was a very kind person.
1606
01:23:54,062 --> 01:23:56,429
Antonio had also met,
at that time, Michael Chow,
1607
01:23:56,531 --> 01:23:58,625
and he introduced Tina to Michael.
1608
01:23:58,733 --> 01:24:01,202
He worked a lot in Japan.
1609
01:24:01,302 --> 01:24:06,035
I was in Tokyo, and Tina was modeling
with Shiseido at the time.
1610
01:24:06,141 --> 01:24:08,371
He tried to introduce me to Tina,
1611
01:24:08,476 --> 01:24:12,344
and the rest is history, as they say.
1612
01:24:12,447 --> 01:24:15,712
Michael Chow was a friend in London.
1613
01:24:15,817 --> 01:24:19,117
He was an artist.
He collected art too.
1614
01:24:19,220 --> 01:24:22,781
Antonio and Juan and I had
a very close relationship with Michael Chow.
1615
01:24:23,091 --> 01:24:24,525
He's enormously creative.
1616
01:24:24,626 --> 01:24:28,688
So, he just, you know, completely
jumped into the restaurant business
1617
01:24:28,797 --> 01:24:32,324
and was enormously successful.
1618
01:24:32,434 --> 01:24:34,334
I mean, he's very dynamic. He is.
1619
01:24:34,436 --> 01:24:37,337
He kind of sweeps you off your feet.
1620
01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:39,498
We got married very quickly.
1621
01:24:39,607 --> 01:24:44,511
I wasn't sure I was ready,
but he was convinced I was.
1622
01:24:44,612 --> 01:24:48,515
Anyway, I think Michael and I were only
actually married for about six months.
1623
01:24:48,616 --> 01:24:52,746
And Michael then set off
and he went to Japan,
1624
01:24:52,854 --> 01:24:56,791
and through Antonio, he met Tina,
1625
01:24:57,092 --> 01:24:59,288
and they really hit it off.
1626
01:24:59,394 --> 01:25:03,262
And... she's
the most beautiful woman I know.
1627
01:25:03,364 --> 01:25:08,325
I think I probably became closer friends
with Tina after they separated
1628
01:25:08,436 --> 01:25:10,370
and I came to live in America.
1629
01:25:10,472 --> 01:25:13,464
I mean, I was only aware
at the very, very end.
1630
01:25:13,575 --> 01:25:17,307
And then some friends told me
that she had AIDS,
1631
01:25:17,412 --> 01:25:20,609
and I think I probably didn't
even know what it was, you know.
1632
01:25:20,715 --> 01:25:24,743
'Cause I lived in England,
and English people did not know.
1633
01:25:24,853 --> 01:25:28,585
I heard she was very ill
with this disease, you know,
1634
01:25:28,690 --> 01:25:31,489
and I would try to be in touch with her,
1635
01:25:31,593 --> 01:25:33,584
but she did not respond.
1636
01:25:33,695 --> 01:25:37,689
Well, at that time,
it was a time where, you know,
1637
01:25:37,799 --> 01:25:40,461
if you had AIDS,
it was very, very shaming.
1638
01:25:40,568 --> 01:25:44,232
And people were very,
very ignorant about it still.
1639
01:25:46,741 --> 01:25:48,835
And that was, like, horrifying
1640
01:25:49,144 --> 01:25:52,876
because some people lived through it,
1641
01:25:53,181 --> 01:25:56,811
and, uh, you know,
the disease that came along,
1642
01:25:56,918 --> 01:25:59,580
um, was like a plague.
1643
01:26:01,656 --> 01:26:04,421
Probably in '82,
1644
01:26:04,526 --> 01:26:07,393
Antonio found out that he had AIDS.
1645
01:26:07,495 --> 01:26:09,862
That's when he began his quest
1646
01:26:10,165 --> 01:26:14,261
for any kind of cure possible,
1647
01:26:14,369 --> 01:26:16,360
and there was no cure at the time.
1648
01:26:16,471 --> 01:26:18,269
There were no drugs.
There was nothing.
1649
01:26:18,373 --> 01:26:21,468
And when Antonio was ill-
1650
01:26:21,576 --> 01:26:25,342
And I'll never forget.
I wouldn't speak to Lagerfeld after that.
1651
01:26:25,446 --> 01:26:27,744
Uh, Antonio said to him, uh-
1652
01:26:27,849 --> 01:26:32,286
They needed money, Antonio,
for the doctors and everything.
1653
01:26:32,387 --> 01:26:36,449
“Can I do a campaign for you?”
And he made drawings.
1654
01:26:36,558 --> 01:26:40,620
And Lagerfeld- “My dear, suppose you get sick
in the middle of the campaign
1655
01:26:40,728 --> 01:26:42,696
and can't finish it?”
1656
01:26:44,732 --> 01:26:49,727
Someone you've known. But I guess
he was feeling that they treated him badly.
1657
01:26:49,837 --> 01:26:52,169
They didn't. It was all equal.
1658
01:26:52,273 --> 01:26:54,173
Karl has gone through
a lot of people.
1659
01:26:54,275 --> 01:26:57,370
He's had a lot of best friends
and then people he's worked very closely with.
1660
01:26:57,478 --> 01:27:00,209
And then it's over.
1661
01:27:00,315 --> 01:27:02,807
Everyone wants to play,
and I think Karl had the period
1662
01:27:02,917 --> 01:27:06,876
when, only child, he wanted to play,
1663
01:27:06,988 --> 01:27:10,788
and Antonio and Juan
brought play into his life.
1664
01:27:10,892 --> 01:27:12,860
And then he wanted
to be something else.
1665
01:27:14,429 --> 01:27:17,888
So, Antonio went to
Oscar de la Renta and he said,
1666
01:27:17,999 --> 01:27:21,299
“Look, can we do a campaign for you?”
1667
01:27:21,402 --> 01:27:24,770
And he said,
“We may not be able to finish it.”
1668
01:27:24,872 --> 01:27:27,773
And they said, “Do whatever you can.”
1669
01:27:35,483 --> 01:27:38,316
Antonio was so sick.
1670
01:27:40,388 --> 01:27:43,881
I remember being
at a Oscar de la Renta show,
1671
01:27:43,992 --> 01:27:47,292
and he was sitting in the audience
1672
01:27:47,395 --> 01:27:49,489
and he was drawing for Oscar.
1673
01:27:51,299 --> 01:27:55,293
It was a short period of time
that I spent with them.
1674
01:27:55,403 --> 01:27:58,532
Too short, you know?
Their lives were too short.
1675
01:27:59,807 --> 01:28:02,742
We all flew together to Los Angeles,
1676
01:28:02,844 --> 01:28:05,677
where he was having a show,
1677
01:28:05,780 --> 01:28:07,805
and it was already March of '87,
1678
01:28:07,915 --> 01:28:10,816
and he died there
in Los Angeles that March.
1679
01:28:12,854 --> 01:28:14,948
The bonding was straightaway.
1680
01:28:15,056 --> 01:28:19,584
He just, uh... had a deep soul.
1681
01:28:21,929 --> 01:28:23,488
And, um...
1682
01:28:24,766 --> 01:28:27,531
He's a very beautiful man
and very talented,
1683
01:28:27,635 --> 01:28:30,935
and he's just-
to me, he's just super cool.
1684
01:28:36,611 --> 01:28:41,276
It was a great gift to meet
Antonio during those years,
1685
01:28:41,382 --> 01:28:43,350
to spend time with him.
1686
01:28:44,852 --> 01:28:48,049
What we had in those years in Paris
1687
01:28:48,356 --> 01:28:51,553
and in- when we all
first came back to New York,
1688
01:28:51,659 --> 01:28:53,627
there was a wildness to it.
1689
01:28:53,728 --> 01:28:57,062
There was a sense of being able
to do whatever we wanted.
1690
01:28:57,365 --> 01:28:58,890
It's a very important time.
1691
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:00,900
All this, where we talk about supermodel,
1692
01:29:01,002 --> 01:29:03,562
all this, what we know of the whole culture,
1693
01:29:03,671 --> 01:29:05,435
came from that period.
1694
01:29:05,540 --> 01:29:10,376
'60s and '70s,
they were the “it,” the magnets.
1695
01:29:10,478 --> 01:29:15,541
Their importance and their charm
through the whole damn thing.
1696
01:29:15,650 --> 01:29:18,847
They never lost protecting their freedom
1697
01:29:18,953 --> 01:29:21,581
from any of these people.
1698
01:29:21,689 --> 01:29:24,590
That's a rarity, you know.
1699
01:29:24,692 --> 01:29:27,855
So, my memories of those kids
are the happiest.
1700
01:29:27,962 --> 01:29:29,953
I miss them,
but I've never found anyone-
1701
01:29:30,064 --> 01:29:33,090
I'm sure there are other people,
but not like that.
1702
01:30:00,728 --> 01:30:02,662
What, do you think that you're Jean Shepherd?
1703
01:30:02,764 --> 01:30:05,597
- Go pick on an innocent old lady.
- How 'bout a man child?
1704
01:30:37,865 --> 01:30:39,833
♪ Try me
Try me, try me, try me ♪
1705
01:30:39,934 --> 01:30:41,663
♪ Just one time ♪
1706
01:30:41,769 --> 01:30:43,863
♪ Try me
Try me, try me, try me ♪
1707
01:30:43,971 --> 01:30:45,461
♪ Anytime ♪
1708
01:30:45,573 --> 01:30:47,564
♪ Oh, try me for love ♪
1709
01:30:47,675 --> 01:30:51,873
♪ Baby don't you think you should? ♪
1710
01:30:53,581 --> 01:30:57,176
♪ Fill me, fill me
Fill me, fill me full of love ♪
1711
01:30:57,485 --> 01:31:00,785
♪ Fill me, fill me
Fill me, fill me to the top A'♪
1712
01:31:00,888 --> 01:31:03,084
♪ Oh, fill me with love ♪
1713
01:31:03,191 --> 01:31:06,923
♪ Baby is my loving good? ♪
1714
01:31:09,664 --> 01:31:12,793
♪ I just wanna feel your body ♪
1715
01:31:12,900 --> 01:31:17,428
♪ Close to mine ♪
1716
01:31:17,538 --> 01:31:20,769
♪ I just wanna share my love with you ♪
1717
01:31:20,875 --> 01:31:27,679
♪ All the time ♪
1718
01:31:27,782 --> 01:31:31,844
♪ All the time ♪
1719
01:31:31,953 --> 01:31:34,684
♪ Oh, try me, try me
Try me, try me ♪
1720
01:31:34,789 --> 01:31:36,450
♪ Just one time ♪
1721
01:31:36,557 --> 01:31:38,548
♪ Try me, try me
Try me, try me ♪
1722
01:31:38,659 --> 01:31:39,922
♪ Anytime ♪
1723
01:31:40,027 --> 01:31:42,121
♪ Oh, try me for love ♪
1724
01:31:42,230 --> 01:31:45,632
♪ Baby won't you try me for love? ♪
1725
01:32:27,808 --> 01:32:30,869
♪ I just wanna feel your body ♪
1726
01:32:30,978 --> 01:32:35,279
♪ Close to mine ♪
1727
01:32:35,583 --> 01:32:38,814
♪ I just wanna share your lovin', baby ♪
1728
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:45,724
♪ All the time ♪
1729
01:32:45,826 --> 01:32:49,854
♪ All the time ♪
1730
01:32:49,964 --> 01:32:54,299
♪ Oh, try me, try me
Try me, try me just one time ♪
1731
01:32:54,602 --> 01:32:57,936
♪ Try me, try me
Try me, try me just one time ♪
1732
01:32:58,039 --> 01:33:00,201
♪ Oh, try me for love ♪
1733
01:33:00,308 --> 01:33:03,972
♪ Baby won't you try me for love? ♪
1734
01:33:06,213 --> 01:33:08,580
- ♪ Try me ♪
- ♪ Try me, try me, try me, try me ♪
1735
01:33:08,683 --> 01:33:09,582
♪ Just one time ♪
1736
01:33:09,684 --> 01:33:12,176
- ♪ Oh, try me ♪
- ♪ Try me, try me, try me, try me ♪
1737
01:33:12,286 --> 01:33:13,185
♪ Just one time ♪
1738
01:33:13,287 --> 01:33:16,154
- ♪ Baby try me ♪
- ♪ Try me, try me, try me, try me ♪
1739
01:33:16,257 --> 01:33:17,156
♪ Just one time ♪
1740
01:33:17,258 --> 01:33:20,057
- ♪ Want you to try me ♪
- ♪ Try me, try me, try me, try me ♪
1741
01:33:20,161 --> 01:33:21,060
♪ Just one time ♪
1742
01:33:21,162 --> 01:33:23,927
- ♪ Oh, baby please ♪
- ♪ Try me, try me, try me, try me ♪
1743
01:33:24,031 --> 01:33:24,930
♪ Just one time ♪
1744
01:33:25,032 --> 01:33:28,024
- ♪ Want you to try me ♪
- ♪ Try me, try me, try me, try me ♪
1745
01:33:28,135 --> 01:33:29,034
♪ Just one time ♪
1746
01:33:29,136 --> 01:33:31,867
- ♪ Oh, try me ♪
- ♪ Try me, try me, try me, try me ♪
1747
01:33:31,973 --> 01:33:32,872
♪ Just one time ♪
1748
01:33:32,974 --> 01:33:35,773
- ♪ Baby try me ♪
- ♪ Try me, try me, try me, try me ♪
1749
01:33:35,876 --> 01:33:36,775
♪ Just one time ♪
1750
01:33:36,877 --> 01:33:39,847
♪ Ooh, try me ♪
1751
01:33:40,881 --> 01:33:44,840
♪ Baby try me ♪
1752
01:33:49,924 --> 01:33:52,586
♪ Try me ♪
1753
01:33:54,028 --> 01:34:00,263
♪ Try me ♪
1754
01:34:01,268 --> 01:34:08,174
♪ Try me ♪
1755
01:34:09,844 --> 01:34:16,147
♪ Oh, baby won't you try me? ♪
1756
01:34:17,985 --> 01:34:23,822
♪ Oh, baby try me ♪
1757
01:34:25,192 --> 01:34:29,095
♪ Baby, baby, please ♪
1758
01:34:29,196 --> 01:34:31,028
♪ Try me ♪
1759
01:34:31,866 --> 01:34:33,231
♪ Oh ♪
1760
01:34:36,203 --> 01:34:38,797
♪ Try me ♪
1761
01:34:38,906 --> 01:34:42,865
♪ Oh, try me ♪
1762
01:34:42,977 --> 01:34:47,073
♪ Oh, try me ♪
1763
01:34:47,181 --> 01:34:50,674
♪ Oh, try me ♪
1764
01:34:50,785 --> 01:34:54,221
♪ Oh, try me ♪
1765
01:34:55,756 --> 01:34:58,316
♪ Try me ♪
1766
01:34:58,426 --> 01:35:01,919
♪ Oh, try me ♪
1767
01:35:03,364 --> 01:35:06,129
♪ Try me ♪
1768
01:35:06,233 --> 01:35:09,362
♪ Oh, try me ♪
149291
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