All language subtitles for Harold.and.Lillian.A.Hollywood.Love.Story.2015.1080p.BluRay.x264-SADPANDA.EtHD
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1
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You have the term power couple.
2
00:00:36,411 --> 00:00:40,416
I don't know what you would
call Harold and Lillian.
3
00:00:40,499 --> 00:00:43,127
They were the heart of Hollywood.
4
00:00:43,210 --> 00:00:44,302
They really were.
5
00:00:44,378 --> 00:00:46,221
They were the best of it.
6
00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:49,015
They were the best of those days.
7
00:00:49,091 --> 00:00:53,016
Harold and Lillian
enhanced the quality of movies.
8
00:00:53,095 --> 00:00:57,942
Both of them are these secret weapons
that people used to have access to.
9
00:00:58,016 --> 00:01:00,018
That nobody talked about.
10
00:01:00,102 --> 00:01:03,356
But everybody was trying to get.
11
00:02:15,344 --> 00:02:19,565
All the movies that I worked on,
I've always gone to Harold.
12
00:02:20,766 --> 00:02:22,689
He would always come up with cool things
13
00:02:22,768 --> 00:02:26,022
that would give you ideas
or suggest things to you.
14
00:02:26,104 --> 00:02:29,574
You're really a spaceball,
you know that, don't you?
15
00:02:29,650 --> 00:02:30,742
Thanks, sir.
16
00:02:30,817 --> 00:02:32,569
Spaceballs, Harold said,
17
00:02:32,653 --> 00:02:34,576
Why don't you put balls on their heads?
18
00:02:34,655 --> 00:02:38,080
I had helmets,
but Harold changed the helmets.
19
00:02:38,158 --> 00:02:40,126
He made them balls, white balls.
20
00:02:40,202 --> 00:02:41,795
He said, So they're Spaceballs.
21
00:02:42,788 --> 00:02:47,168
Nobody knows about the little goodies
that Harold Michelson could give you
22
00:02:47,250 --> 00:02:49,878
and make you look like
a great filmmaker, you know?
23
00:02:49,961 --> 00:02:53,386
There may be napkins around
with Harold's drawings on 'em.
24
00:02:53,465 --> 00:02:57,766
I know Harold's got some of
the most beautiful storyboards.
25
00:02:57,844 --> 00:02:59,437
What's that little thing?
26
00:02:59,513 --> 00:03:01,436
- Oh, that's her in the knife.
- Yeah.
27
00:03:01,515 --> 00:03:02,767
That's the reflection.
28
00:03:13,944 --> 00:03:15,867
When I think of Harold and Lillian,
29
00:03:15,946 --> 00:03:20,952
I go right to a smell and sort
of tactile sense of charcoal.
30
00:03:22,327 --> 00:03:27,504
The predominant sense of his tool
was not only the ink but the charcoal.
31
00:03:27,582 --> 00:03:33,430
But I'd never seen charcoal and ink used
to create frames of cinema.
32
00:03:36,842 --> 00:03:39,721
Most satisfying is doing storyboards.
33
00:03:39,803 --> 00:03:42,022
There's a place where you are in a room
34
00:03:42,097 --> 00:03:44,850
and you're practically
a whole studio in yourself,
35
00:03:44,933 --> 00:03:46,355
and you just draw.
36
00:03:47,310 --> 00:03:49,438
Just the idea of creating your idea,
37
00:03:49,521 --> 00:03:51,694
you're kind of directing
visually on sketching,
38
00:03:51,773 --> 00:03:53,821
and that is very satisfying.
39
00:03:55,736 --> 00:03:57,329
Harold's talent
40
00:03:57,404 --> 00:04:00,123
was something that was sort of lost
in the '60s and '70s.
41
00:04:00,198 --> 00:04:02,417
And that talent was to explore an image
42
00:04:02,492 --> 00:04:04,790
that was gonna be the essential image
43
00:04:04,870 --> 00:04:06,918
or the key frame of a scene.
44
00:04:09,166 --> 00:04:12,261
He was a visualist,
and he understood the language of cinema.
45
00:04:13,962 --> 00:04:16,465
He understood what it took
to tell a story visually.
46
00:04:17,257 --> 00:04:19,305
There were two kinds
of images that he produced.
47
00:04:19,384 --> 00:04:20,852
One was a concept illustration
48
00:04:20,927 --> 00:04:23,897
that shows you a key shot
of a scene in the movie
49
00:04:23,972 --> 00:04:26,350
so you can now take it
to the director and say,
50
00:04:26,433 --> 00:04:28,435
This is what the whole thing
is gonna look like.
51
00:04:28,518 --> 00:04:30,941
And this is how the action
is gonna occur in there.
52
00:04:31,021 --> 00:04:32,864
Does that make you happy?
53
00:04:32,939 --> 00:04:35,237
The next step was another thing
that illustrators do,
54
00:04:35,317 --> 00:04:38,446
is a frame-by-frame view
of how the shot's gonna work,
55
00:04:38,528 --> 00:04:42,158
how the action is all gonna lock together
and tell the story,
56
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,586
and Harold had this innate ability
to see what the camera saw.
57
00:04:51,875 --> 00:04:53,969
Pa, take my hand.
58
00:04:54,044 --> 00:04:56,547
Winter Kills,
the whole group was back east
59
00:04:56,630 --> 00:04:59,759
location hunting,
and I was doing the storyboard
60
00:04:59,841 --> 00:05:03,095
of John Huston falling out a window
and going through a flag.
61
00:05:06,223 --> 00:05:09,147
I thought it was, you know,
the best thing that I ever did.
62
00:05:09,226 --> 00:05:12,196
When they set up the shot,
they did something like it.
63
00:05:12,270 --> 00:05:13,943
I haven't seen the picture actually.
64
00:05:14,022 --> 00:05:17,196
The office building
they laid down on the stage,
65
00:05:17,275 --> 00:05:20,996
and they had a rail on it
and John Huston attached to the rail,
66
00:05:21,071 --> 00:05:24,416
pulling him down through it,
and through the flag.
67
00:05:26,201 --> 00:05:28,124
I don't know how close
they came to my drawings,
68
00:05:28,203 --> 00:05:31,127
but I was quite proud
of the drawings that I did.
69
00:05:36,545 --> 00:05:41,016
Each one of these frames told us exactly
what we were gonna see, with which lens,
70
00:05:41,091 --> 00:05:43,093
and what angle
the camera should be pointed.
71
00:05:44,010 --> 00:05:46,388
That was part of the thrill
of working with Harold,
72
00:05:46,471 --> 00:05:48,189
was making these things happen.
73
00:05:50,684 --> 00:05:53,688
Harold was married a long time
to a loving, witty woman,
74
00:05:53,770 --> 00:05:55,488
who not only supported him,
75
00:05:55,564 --> 00:05:58,738
but was able to even expand
beyond his world
76
00:05:58,817 --> 00:06:01,991
into how that related
to all the other aspects
77
00:06:02,070 --> 00:06:03,993
of what it took to create the image.
78
00:06:04,072 --> 00:06:09,078
And then, thus she was making her version
in a complementary way what Harold was.
79
00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:12,748
Everybody was familiar
with the research libraries
80
00:06:12,831 --> 00:06:14,708
that were in their studios,
81
00:06:14,791 --> 00:06:17,715
and everybody was familiar
with Lillian Michelson,
82
00:06:17,794 --> 00:06:21,344
because she had one of
the better research libraries.
83
00:06:23,008 --> 00:06:24,851
FRANCIS: The studio's research library
84
00:06:24,926 --> 00:06:31,059
was at the heart of the concept
to be able to do any movie in any setting
85
00:06:31,141 --> 00:06:34,566
in any period, right there on the lot.
86
00:06:34,644 --> 00:06:37,648
[typing]
87
00:06:45,655 --> 00:06:48,454
The first step you take
in almost anything you do on a movie
88
00:06:48,533 --> 00:06:50,001
is you do the research.
89
00:06:50,076 --> 00:06:52,420
You don't want to pull
something out of your brain
90
00:06:52,495 --> 00:06:54,497
that might or might not be right.
91
00:06:54,581 --> 00:06:56,583
It might be your distorted view
of the world
92
00:06:56,666 --> 00:06:58,259
and not what the director wants.
93
00:06:58,335 --> 00:07:01,384
So you really go and you find out
what was really there.
94
00:07:01,463 --> 00:07:02,760
Our son is dead!
95
00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,342
- Can you get that through your head?
- Let go of me!
96
00:07:05,425 --> 00:07:07,723
Listen to me carefully.
We got a telegraph.
97
00:07:07,802 --> 00:07:11,557
who's afraid of Virginia Woolf?
was a very provocative movie.
98
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:16,020
I was asked to research the costumes,
the sets, the cars.
99
00:07:16,102 --> 00:07:19,106
And Harold was the illustrator on that.
100
00:07:20,315 --> 00:07:23,945
The most innocuous things,
a living room table,
101
00:07:24,027 --> 00:07:29,079
a sofa that might just seat two,
become an arena of war.
102
00:07:35,372 --> 00:07:40,970
Ll Full Metal Jacket,
I had to supply uniforms, armament,
103
00:07:41,044 --> 00:07:43,467
everything that had to do with war.
104
00:07:43,546 --> 00:07:46,265
Tunnels Vietnamese had built,
105
00:07:46,341 --> 00:07:50,016
and very, very military information.
106
00:07:50,095 --> 00:07:53,565
When I'm asked to do research on a movie,
107
00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,315
it's usually a question
or a series of questions
108
00:07:57,394 --> 00:08:00,489
by the art director
or the production designer,
109
00:08:00,563 --> 00:08:02,065
sometimes the writer,
110
00:08:02,148 --> 00:08:05,948
and it would involve
mostly visual research.
111
00:08:06,027 --> 00:08:12,034
1968, my first movie that year
was Rosemary's Baby.
112
00:08:12,117 --> 00:08:14,620
That was my first attempt to find out
113
00:08:14,703 --> 00:08:17,752
about the surreal or the occult.
114
00:08:18,999 --> 00:08:20,672
WOMAN 1: We're your friends, Rosemary.
115
00:08:20,750 --> 00:08:24,755
WOMAN 2: There's nothing to be afraid of,
Rosemary. Honest and truly there isn't.
116
00:08:24,838 --> 00:08:28,263
It was fascinating
to learn about witchcraft
117
00:08:28,341 --> 00:08:31,811
in various countries, in various periods.
118
00:08:31,886 --> 00:08:37,143
Also, the various outshoots-
voodoo,séances.
119
00:08:37,225 --> 00:08:41,822
It was a fascinating movie
to do research on. I learned a lot.
120
00:08:42,439 --> 00:08:44,612
A big part of your job as an art director
121
00:08:44,691 --> 00:08:47,365
was actually already
being inspired by Lillian
122
00:08:47,444 --> 00:08:48,991
and her library.
123
00:08:49,070 --> 00:08:53,450
And I found it to be not like
a normal generic place
124
00:08:53,533 --> 00:08:54,910
to go to get information.
125
00:08:54,993 --> 00:09:00,341
It was much more like, I want to say,
an alchemist's lab to find vision.
126
00:09:01,583 --> 00:09:05,679
It starts with Harold and Lillian
being a loving couple.
127
00:09:05,754 --> 00:09:11,056
They truly were people
that together created art.
128
00:09:12,802 --> 00:09:15,225
They were like two peas in a pod.
129
00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:20,314
They fed each other in a kind
of a really great way.
130
00:09:20,393 --> 00:09:24,864
They fed each other,
not only their passion and their love,
131
00:09:24,939 --> 00:09:29,866
but they fed each other
their creativity, their ideas.
132
00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:33,540
She was so supportive,
and he was so appreciative,
133
00:09:33,615 --> 00:09:38,166
and then in turn so supportive,
that you felt like you were watching
134
00:09:38,244 --> 00:09:41,999
the best of Hollywood
as it could be as a lifestyle.
135
00:09:43,374 --> 00:09:46,002
In our industry, in Hollywood,
136
00:09:46,086 --> 00:09:48,885
marriages don't seem to last very long,
137
00:09:48,963 --> 00:09:51,716
and there are many reasons why.
138
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,770
The fact that our marriage lasted 60 years
139
00:09:54,844 --> 00:09:59,520
is a big surprise,
mostly to Harold and me,
140
00:09:59,599 --> 00:10:01,522
and to our friends.
141
00:10:11,986 --> 00:10:16,833
When I first met Harold,
I was his kid sister's best girlfriend.
142
00:10:16,908 --> 00:10:20,788
And all that I knew about Harold
and his brother were that
143
00:10:20,870 --> 00:10:24,795
there were many, many photographs
in the family living room.
144
00:10:24,874 --> 00:10:27,502
The two boys who were fighting the war.
145
00:10:28,962 --> 00:10:33,388
I was drafted in 1941,
before Pearl Harbor.
146
00:10:33,466 --> 00:10:35,514
But I- I always wanted to fly,
147
00:10:35,593 --> 00:10:38,813
and here was a way
to get free flying lessons.
148
00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:42,358
MALE NARRATOR: Our ever increasing
fleets of fortresses and liberators
149
00:10:42,433 --> 00:10:44,902
pressed on to their targets
and dropped their loads.
150
00:10:46,396 --> 00:10:48,819
At the beginning, you're in a movie.
151
00:10:48,898 --> 00:10:50,400
- You know what I mean?
- Sure.
152
00:10:50,483 --> 00:10:53,487
And I'd think to myself,
Jesus, if my father could see me now.
153
00:10:53,570 --> 00:10:57,074
Here I am with all this stuff,
all these tubes hanging down,
154
00:10:57,157 --> 00:10:59,580
and the goggles and the helmet
and all that stuff,
155
00:10:59,659 --> 00:11:01,081
and I'm about to bomb a place.
156
00:11:01,161 --> 00:11:02,583
Who's gonna believe me?
157
00:11:03,496 --> 00:11:05,373
Nobody's gonna believe me.
158
00:11:05,456 --> 00:11:08,676
And then after the fifth mission,
we went a little off course,
159
00:11:08,751 --> 00:11:11,049
and we got shot at something awful.
160
00:11:11,129 --> 00:11:15,384
And that's when
I became religious, you know?
161
00:11:15,466 --> 00:11:17,844
I thought, Jesus, what am I doing here?
162
00:11:17,927 --> 00:11:20,225
This is ridiculous. I've had enough.
163
00:11:20,305 --> 00:11:23,935
I want them to send me back.
I'll sell war bonds.
164
00:11:24,017 --> 00:11:27,647
They'll see this terrific hero,
and he's selling war bonds.
165
00:11:27,729 --> 00:11:29,231
That was my fifth mission.
166
00:11:29,314 --> 00:11:31,783
Well, I had 35 more after that.
167
00:11:44,204 --> 00:11:46,832
And then he came back, discharged,
168
00:11:46,915 --> 00:11:50,510
when he was 28 and I was 17.
169
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,547
I came back from the war,
170
00:11:53,630 --> 00:11:55,632
and I was kind of fed up
with the civilians.
171
00:11:55,715 --> 00:11:57,558
They were really a pain in the ass.
172
00:11:57,634 --> 00:11:59,978
They were asking me questions
that you couldn't answer.
173
00:12:00,053 --> 00:12:02,351
How does it feel up there?
That kind of stuff.
174
00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:03,852
It got on my nerves.
175
00:12:03,932 --> 00:12:08,358
And little by little I was drawn to her,
and we used to sit on the porch and talk.
176
00:12:08,937 --> 00:12:12,612
He said, You're gonna be
Empress of Japan, the way you talk.
177
00:12:12,690 --> 00:12:15,489
You just talk about women being so equal.
178
00:12:15,568 --> 00:12:17,866
I said, I think they can be equal,
179
00:12:17,946 --> 00:12:21,291
which was really not well thought of
180
00:12:21,366 --> 00:12:23,209
in the early '40s.
181
00:12:23,284 --> 00:12:26,208
I was not very nice to her
in many cases, you know,
182
00:12:26,287 --> 00:12:29,040
because I thought, Here's a 17-year-old.
183
00:12:29,123 --> 00:12:31,546
Where the hell has she
got the nerve to be smart?
184
00:12:31,626 --> 00:12:34,379
You know what I mean?
She has absolutely no right.
185
00:12:34,462 --> 00:12:37,136
I had just been through a war
and all that sort of crap.
186
00:12:37,215 --> 00:12:39,718
What the hell was she telling me?
She was very smart.
187
00:12:40,969 --> 00:12:44,143
She was the champion speller from Florida.
188
00:12:45,265 --> 00:12:48,189
When I was 12, the Miami Herald
189
00:12:48,268 --> 00:12:51,693
sent me up to Washington
to the National Spelling Bee.
190
00:12:51,771 --> 00:12:57,574
And since I didn't have parents,
so to speak,
191
00:12:57,652 --> 00:13:02,203
I took my very Southern
English teacher up there.
192
00:13:04,033 --> 00:13:07,412
I didn't have much of a family life.
193
00:13:07,495 --> 00:13:10,499
What there was was brutal.
194
00:13:10,581 --> 00:13:12,709
I was sent away to orphanages.
195
00:13:12,792 --> 00:13:16,137
And that's about all I can say on that.
196
00:13:18,673 --> 00:13:21,472
When I was five,
I would read fairy stories
197
00:13:21,551 --> 00:13:25,226
and that would really
transport me to another world,
198
00:13:25,305 --> 00:13:27,148
out of the depression.
199
00:13:28,808 --> 00:13:34,440
It's a most wonderful gift, I think,
that a child could have.
200
00:13:34,522 --> 00:13:39,949
Your imagination is let free,
and it could go in any direction,
201
00:13:40,028 --> 00:13:44,454
and it gives you food
to work with in your mind.
202
00:13:46,784 --> 00:13:53,167
My determination to pull myself
out of the situation that life put me in
203
00:13:53,249 --> 00:13:55,092
was so strong.
204
00:13:56,002 --> 00:14:00,223
Maybe I read books to find
the solution. I don't know.
205
00:14:02,050 --> 00:14:06,180
I ran away from one orphanage
because I had read some book
206
00:14:06,262 --> 00:14:09,232
that gave me the idea of running away.
207
00:14:09,307 --> 00:14:12,607
I found myself in the middle of a swamp.
208
00:14:12,685 --> 00:14:15,689
I had enough common sense to realize
209
00:14:15,772 --> 00:14:17,945
there might be quicksand
or whatever in there,
210
00:14:18,024 --> 00:14:24,031
so I turned back and walked the whole way
back to the orphanage.
211
00:14:24,113 --> 00:14:27,993
Well, It worked in the book,
but it didn't work in my real life.
212
00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:48,225
And then suddenly he invites me
for a piña colada.
213
00:14:48,304 --> 00:14:50,056
I said, This isn't a date, is it?
214
00:14:50,139 --> 00:14:53,393
He said, No, it's not a date.
I don't have any money for a date.
215
00:14:53,476 --> 00:14:55,604
And he says, Well, when we get married,
216
00:14:55,686 --> 00:14:58,940
I know what color I want
to paint our front door!
217
00:14:59,023 --> 00:15:01,321
I started to laugh.
218
00:15:01,401 --> 00:15:03,028
It's just out of nowhere!
219
00:15:03,111 --> 00:15:07,082
One day I asked her to marry me,
and she looked at me and she laughed.
220
00:15:07,156 --> 00:15:09,659
Which is a great feeling. You know?
221
00:15:11,285 --> 00:15:14,789
Then I said, I want to go to California.
Don't ask me why.
222
00:15:14,872 --> 00:15:16,624
Maybe they could use somebody who draws.
223
00:15:16,707 --> 00:15:20,382
So I said to him,
Suppose we go out to California
224
00:15:20,461 --> 00:15:25,183
and we live together and see
if we really like one another?
225
00:15:25,258 --> 00:15:28,432
Oh, he got very upset.
He was very traditional.
226
00:15:28,511 --> 00:15:30,309
And very honorable.
227
00:15:30,388 --> 00:15:34,985
L wouldn't do such a thing to you.
I definitely would have to marry you.
228
00:15:35,059 --> 00:15:37,107
So I said, Okay, if you marry me,
229
00:15:37,186 --> 00:15:39,689
then we can get divorced
if it doesn't work.
230
00:15:39,772 --> 00:15:40,898
Divorced?
231
00:15:40,982 --> 00:15:42,905
It was a whole big thing, big fight.
232
00:15:42,984 --> 00:15:48,832
Anyway, we went back and forth about it,
and he said, You can leave Miami.
233
00:15:48,906 --> 00:15:51,000
You never wanted to be here,
234
00:15:51,075 --> 00:15:53,169
and there's nothing keeping you here,
235
00:15:53,244 --> 00:15:55,087
and we'll start a new life.
236
00:15:55,163 --> 00:15:58,588
And I know that you'll like me.
237
00:15:58,666 --> 00:15:59,792
I know that.
238
00:15:59,876 --> 00:16:01,719
I know that it will work out.
239
00:16:03,254 --> 00:16:08,010
All the old ladies who sat
on the veranda told his mum
240
00:16:08,092 --> 00:16:12,598
that he was after me,
so she threw a lot of fits.
241
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,399
And I don't blame her, a Jewish mother.
242
00:16:15,475 --> 00:16:20,697
I'm a poor orphan, no family,
no money, no nothing.
243
00:16:20,771 --> 00:16:24,696
Absolutely, in Miami Beach, Florida terms,
244
00:16:24,775 --> 00:16:29,326
I was not desirable at all.
245
00:16:36,787 --> 00:16:40,132
MAN AS 'Dearest Lillian.'
It' looks like I 'm all set' here,
246
00:16:40,208 --> 00:16:43,428
except for one thing, and the! 's yo u.
247
00:16:43,503 --> 00:16:45,471
Your presence
will make everything complete.
248
00:16:45,546 --> 00:16:48,425
80 please make plans to come out here.
249
00:16:48,508 --> 00:16:50,510
The weather is better than Miami.
250
00:16:50,593 --> 00:16:52,391
I love you more than ever,
251
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:56,191
and/ wanna marry you
just' as soon as you say yes.
252
00:16:56,265 --> 00:16:57,892
Now, to my job.
253
00:16:57,975 --> 00:17:00,899
I'm a background art/st here.
lt's pretty easy Work.
254
00:17:00,978 --> 00:17:03,857
The backgrounds / do are
for those little reminders
255
00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:07,069
you see on the screen like, 'No smoking,
256
00:17:07,151 --> 00:17:13,158
merry Christmas, kiddie show,
do not' urinate in the aisles. '
257
00:17:13,241 --> 00:17:14,709
Now you know.
258
00:17:14,784 --> 00:17:17,458
It's simply fascinating
I0 be in show business.
259
00:17:18,412 --> 00:17:20,710
WOMAN AS Dearest Harold,
Since you 've been away,
260
00:17:21,082 --> 00:17:24,211
I've missed you more than
you can possibly realize.
261
00:17:24,293 --> 00:17:26,637
L! actually hurts sometimes.
262
00:17:26,712 --> 00:17:28,385
I feel silly writing this,
263
00:17:28,464 --> 00:17:31,593
but/ want you to understand
exactly how if is with me.
264
00:17:31,676 --> 00:17:33,474
I 'd also like to sleep with you.
265
00:17:34,804 --> 00:17:36,852
MAN AS
'Dearest Lillian, Here it is,
266
00:17:36,931 --> 00:17:39,525
only 7:00 p. m., and I'm in the right place
267
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,355
to read and answer your letter, in bed.
268
00:17:43,437 --> 00:17:46,031
You'll never know the phenomenon
that takes place
269
00:17:46,107 --> 00:17:47,609
when I read your letter.
270
00:17:47,692 --> 00:17:51,287
A stiff problem like that
is hard to understand
271
00:17:51,362 --> 00:17:55,333
I just' can 'I Wait to see you
and snuggle with you again.
272
00:17:55,408 --> 00:17:59,038
My plans for the future
include living, to its fullest.
273
00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:02,294
A no' I can only accomplish that with you.
274
00:18:02,373 --> 00:18:04,296
I'm not very proud of this.
275
00:18:04,375 --> 00:18:10,257
I kind of liked the idea
of linking up with him
276
00:18:10,339 --> 00:18:13,343
because I wanted to spite his mother.
277
00:18:13,426 --> 00:18:15,224
Isn't that an awful thing?
278
00:18:15,303 --> 00:18:16,976
Well, the truth is the truth.
279
00:18:17,054 --> 00:18:22,311
And his mother's busy getting all
these sedative injections in her thing,
280
00:18:22,393 --> 00:18:26,739
and I thought,
I really am gonna show that woman.
281
00:18:26,814 --> 00:18:28,908
I'm gonna go out to California.
282
00:18:28,983 --> 00:18:33,204
I'm going to marry her favorite son,
283
00:18:33,279 --> 00:18:35,156
and I'm going to show her
284
00:18:35,239 --> 00:18:38,118
that I'm going to make
a good marriage of this
285
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,750
and that I will not be the poor orphan.
286
00:18:41,829 --> 00:18:44,582
At that, things really came to a head.
287
00:18:44,665 --> 00:18:46,667
We got a summons from New York
288
00:18:46,751 --> 00:18:53,600
where the matriarch
of the family was... Aunt Ceil.
289
00:18:56,177 --> 00:18:59,306
And Aunt Ceil, she invites me to dinner,
and she says,
290
00:18:59,388 --> 00:19:02,312
You really can't marry my nephew.
291
00:19:02,391 --> 00:19:06,521
You have no money, no status, no nothing.
292
00:19:06,604 --> 00:19:10,234
And If I were a logical person,
I would have retreated.
293
00:19:10,316 --> 00:19:12,114
But I'm rather stubborn
294
00:19:12,193 --> 00:19:15,823
and this was my only way
out of Florida, and I said,
295
00:19:15,905 --> 00:19:18,408
I don't think I'm going to listen to you.
296
00:19:18,491 --> 00:19:22,541
I'm going to go with Harold
and see how that works out.
297
00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:23,462
[explosion]
298
00:19:23,537 --> 00:19:25,756
MAN AS
'$4 uni Ceil gets me so goddamn mad
299
00:19:25,831 --> 00:19:29,005
throwing her fa! nos y face
around the wa y she does!
300
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:32,513
Please, don 7 lei anything change.
301
00:19:32,588 --> 00:19:34,636
I'll be at the station to meet you.
302
00:19:34,715 --> 00:19:37,844
I love you so much,
I can I even draw right.
303
00:19:37,927 --> 00:19:40,100
I'll be a! the stat/on. Hal.
304
00:19:50,231 --> 00:19:52,609
The period from 1947
305
00:19:52,692 --> 00:19:55,366
when we eloped in December, to '49,
306
00:19:55,444 --> 00:19:58,118
was a very hungry period for us.
307
00:19:59,365 --> 00:20:02,369
He had been going to art school
and looking for work
308
00:20:02,451 --> 00:20:05,955
and working in a camera place.
309
00:20:06,038 --> 00:20:10,714
It didn't last very long,
because he wasn't a good salesman.
310
00:20:10,793 --> 00:20:14,218
I ended up as a messenger
for the telephone company
311
00:20:14,296 --> 00:20:16,469
because I could walk there.
312
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:18,847
And I made $53 a week,
313
00:20:18,926 --> 00:20:22,647
and we lived on that
for a very, very long time,
314
00:20:22,722 --> 00:20:25,521
until I got pregnant.
315
00:20:25,599 --> 00:20:28,899
And that changes everything.
316
00:20:28,978 --> 00:20:32,027
Civil rights not being what they are now,
317
00:20:32,106 --> 00:20:35,610
I was fired immediately
from the telephone company
318
00:20:35,693 --> 00:20:40,870
because I was an insult
to the public's eyes being pregnant.
319
00:20:40,948 --> 00:20:43,167
These were different times.
320
00:20:43,242 --> 00:20:46,712
You had no recourse. So I had no work.
321
00:20:46,787 --> 00:20:48,585
I worked until my seventh month,
322
00:20:48,664 --> 00:20:52,214
and that's when they fired me
'cause I was such an insult.
323
00:20:52,293 --> 00:20:56,764
And I was doing a good job
delivering the mail
324
00:20:56,839 --> 00:20:58,386
within the telephone company
325
00:20:58,466 --> 00:21:00,844
and being a messenger
with this huge stomach.
326
00:21:00,926 --> 00:21:03,099
I was really upset that they fired me!
327
00:21:03,179 --> 00:21:06,604
But they said, That's the only reason,
you are an affront.
328
00:21:06,682 --> 00:21:10,232
That was the word they used.
An affront to the public's eye.
329
00:21:14,023 --> 00:21:16,117
Our first baby was just born,
330
00:21:16,192 --> 00:21:20,572
and Harold was desperate for work,
because we had nothing.
331
00:21:20,654 --> 00:21:21,780
We were so hungry.
332
00:21:21,864 --> 00:21:23,787
We were both malnourished.
333
00:21:23,866 --> 00:21:26,665
I brought my stuff around
to all the different studios.
334
00:21:26,744 --> 00:21:30,749
One day I get a call,
Are you the guy who did these drawings?
335
00:21:30,831 --> 00:21:33,084
I said, Yes. And he says,
Can you come to work Monday?
336
00:21:33,167 --> 00:21:36,091
I said, Yes.
Well, I never did those drawings.
337
00:21:36,170 --> 00:21:39,049
Whoever did those drawings
now may be selling insurance.
338
00:21:40,382 --> 00:21:42,225
And he started at Columbia.
339
00:21:42,301 --> 00:21:46,772
And since Harold was the lowest apprentice
on this totem pole,
340
00:21:46,847 --> 00:21:50,067
he was the one
who was always laid off and rehired.
341
00:21:50,142 --> 00:21:52,440
Oh, getting fired
was very, very depressing
342
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,399
because now I was a father,
for crying out loud.
343
00:21:55,481 --> 00:21:57,779
This is a whole new ball game.
344
00:21:57,858 --> 00:22:01,237
Now people really depended on me,
and it was scary.
345
00:22:02,530 --> 00:22:05,158
One day, Lillian was walking
with the baby on the street
346
00:22:05,241 --> 00:22:06,914
outside of Columbia.
347
00:22:06,992 --> 00:22:09,211
Being a great affront to the public's eyes
348
00:22:09,286 --> 00:22:10,959
and pushing our little baby.
349
00:22:11,038 --> 00:22:13,086
And Dick Pearl, the department head,
350
00:22:13,165 --> 00:22:16,044
just happens to catch
a glimpse of us, and he says,
351
00:22:16,126 --> 00:22:18,970
Harold's wife is pregnant again?
352
00:22:19,046 --> 00:22:20,969
Put him back on.
353
00:22:21,048 --> 00:22:25,303
He told me later he felt very guilty,
so he put me back on.
354
00:22:25,386 --> 00:22:29,357
This was a great achievement
for the company.
355
00:22:31,767 --> 00:22:33,110
We worked for the studio.
356
00:22:33,185 --> 00:22:36,155
The studio was our General Motors.
357
00:22:36,230 --> 00:22:39,860
We were on the bowling team.
We had our commissaries.
358
00:22:39,942 --> 00:22:42,320
It was a real big family.
359
00:22:42,403 --> 00:22:45,998
We also had our tyrants,
but we also had the chance,
360
00:22:46,073 --> 00:22:49,668
when you were in the art department
starting out, to get your training,
361
00:22:49,743 --> 00:22:53,668
there were all these marvelous draftsmen
that you could learn from.
362
00:22:53,747 --> 00:22:55,670
They called them sketch artists.
363
00:22:55,749 --> 00:22:59,504
At Columbia, I was a sketch artist
working on a movie,
364
00:22:59,587 --> 00:23:02,056
and Harold came in
as sort of an apprentice.
365
00:23:02,131 --> 00:23:06,682
I taught Harold projection of scenes
of how to do camera angles
366
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,263
and how to project them
and do 'em on the paper.
367
00:23:09,346 --> 00:23:12,646
What concerned us
was the mathematics of the lens,
368
00:23:12,725 --> 00:23:15,945
that it is just so wide and so high.
369
00:23:16,020 --> 00:23:19,820
Within those limits,
this is what you're going to see.
370
00:23:21,609 --> 00:23:23,282
Owen!
371
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:25,863
The way
we worked together is, I would say,
372
00:23:25,946 --> 00:23:27,948
I got to build this set on a stage.
373
00:23:28,032 --> 00:23:30,535
This is not gonna be a location.
374
00:23:30,618 --> 00:23:35,215
I need to build the living room,
the dining room.
375
00:23:35,289 --> 00:23:38,088
The first time we see Momma
is in that dining room,
376
00:23:38,167 --> 00:23:40,670
where she comes through the two doors.
377
00:23:40,753 --> 00:23:43,677
- Hurry up with that soda!
- Coming, Momma.
378
00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:45,383
So we would literally say,
379
00:23:45,466 --> 00:23:48,720
How is this gonna look
with a 21-millimeter lens?
380
00:23:48,802 --> 00:23:53,399
Once I get outside on the porch,
how far back can I get?
381
00:23:55,768 --> 00:23:57,736
Well, you can get as far back as you want
382
00:23:57,811 --> 00:24:00,234
if you spend a lot of money on the set,
383
00:24:00,314 --> 00:24:02,533
but what we had was X.
384
00:24:03,525 --> 00:24:06,119
It was just fantastic,
385
00:24:06,195 --> 00:24:09,916
because his tools were measurements.
386
00:24:10,991 --> 00:24:13,085
He understood perfectly perspective.
387
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,666
So that helped him render things
exactly as the camera would see them.
388
00:24:19,458 --> 00:24:23,964
He was a bombardier-navigator
and sat in that little glass nose,
389
00:24:24,046 --> 00:24:29,052
and he had this panorama
of Germany or Belgium or Holland
390
00:24:29,134 --> 00:24:31,512
or wherever they were supposed to bomb.
391
00:24:33,013 --> 00:24:35,232
The panoramas that he saw
392
00:24:35,307 --> 00:24:38,686
and the different visions
of the different angles
393
00:24:38,769 --> 00:24:42,774
that he had to see
through the Norden bombsight,
394
00:24:42,856 --> 00:24:45,951
which really was so precise.
395
00:24:46,026 --> 00:24:51,032
That might've been where he got
this incredible mental view
396
00:24:51,115 --> 00:24:55,211
of how things could look
to make them look real
397
00:24:55,285 --> 00:24:57,003
although they weren't real.
398
00:24:57,079 --> 00:24:59,798
Because what he was bombing was real,
399
00:24:59,873 --> 00:25:03,923
but when you're thousands
of feet up in the air,
400
00:25:04,003 --> 00:25:07,473
he would say how unreal everything was.
401
00:25:10,926 --> 00:25:14,146
When my son was born,
I had the oddest feeling
402
00:25:14,221 --> 00:25:17,395
when they put him in my arms
for the first time.
403
00:25:17,474 --> 00:25:20,944
He just felt different.
404
00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:25,491
And when he got old enough
to sit up, which was delayed,
405
00:25:25,566 --> 00:25:30,663
he would just sit in a corner in a trance
and rock back and forth.
406
00:25:30,738 --> 00:25:33,287
And I knew there was something
terribly wrong,
407
00:25:33,365 --> 00:25:35,788
but I didn't know what.
408
00:25:35,868 --> 00:25:37,996
Alan was born with autism,
409
00:25:38,078 --> 00:25:43,175
but in 1949, autism was not known about.
410
00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:46,629
A Freudian psychology group was started
411
00:25:46,712 --> 00:25:50,967
at the Rhys Davis clinic, and they said,
Would you be part of it?
412
00:25:51,050 --> 00:25:53,644
I didn't know much about
Freudian psychology.
413
00:25:53,719 --> 00:25:56,142
If I had known,
I would have never said yes.
414
00:25:57,389 --> 00:26:00,939
Ten years of terrible damage
to our whole family.
415
00:26:01,977 --> 00:26:06,198
We were saddled with this term
that we were refrigerator mothers,
416
00:26:06,273 --> 00:26:09,493
which means that
we gave our children no love
417
00:26:09,568 --> 00:26:11,241
and no attention.
418
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:16,668
They had no idea that it was, organically,
something was wrong with the brain.
419
00:26:16,742 --> 00:26:20,337
I stayed in it for ten years,
and then I got up the courage,
420
00:26:20,412 --> 00:26:21,959
I don't know from where from.
421
00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:26,795
There were six mothers in this group
who stayed ten years.
422
00:26:26,877 --> 00:26:32,225
And I said to this psychiatrist,
You've damaged my family beyond belief.
423
00:26:32,299 --> 00:26:35,929
No help with my son.
He's worse than he was before.
424
00:26:36,011 --> 00:26:39,311
And my other two children
think I love only that son
425
00:26:39,389 --> 00:26:44,771
because I'm always making them travel
to go to his doctor.
426
00:26:44,853 --> 00:26:47,572
And so I quit.
427
00:26:47,648 --> 00:26:52,495
And then the next day,
four other mothers quit.
428
00:26:57,366 --> 00:27:00,119
I think raising a family
429
00:27:00,202 --> 00:27:04,252
is one of the most consistent tensions
430
00:27:04,331 --> 00:27:08,507
that a couple can have in trying
to keep a marriage together.
431
00:27:10,129 --> 00:27:15,181
Our problems in raising a family
affected our marriage greatly.
432
00:27:15,259 --> 00:27:18,058
It's a matter of daily coping.
433
00:27:18,137 --> 00:27:20,435
I guess coping would be the word.
434
00:27:24,226 --> 00:27:26,604
At 6:30 AM it began.
435
00:27:26,687 --> 00:27:28,940
In roared the Michelson clan.
436
00:27:29,022 --> 00:27:30,740
Ricky started to dance.
437
00:27:30,816 --> 00:27:34,366
Dennis came with full pants
and Poody was banging a pan.
438
00:27:34,444 --> 00:27:37,448
Through slit eyes, we looked a! our boys
439
00:27:37,531 --> 00:27:40,501
who brought us our Woes and our joys.
440
00:27:40,576 --> 00:27:44,501
December 74th was the date,
anniversary number eight'.
441
00:27:44,580 --> 00:27:48,710
Wondering how in hell
We produced all this noise.
442
00:27:48,792 --> 00:27:50,794
Happy y anniversary, baby!"
443
00:27:52,504 --> 00:27:54,177
Harold had a marvelous gift
444
00:27:54,256 --> 00:27:57,760
of making household crises a joke,
445
00:27:57,843 --> 00:28:01,723
something that we could laugh about
when I read his poems.
446
00:28:03,265 --> 00:28:07,771
He started to make cards for me
for every occasion.
447
00:28:07,853 --> 00:28:13,235
Mother's Day, our anniversary,
my birthday, Valentine's Day,
448
00:28:13,317 --> 00:28:14,569
etcetera.
449
00:28:14,651 --> 00:28:17,245
Our youngest son, Dennis,
got them all together
450
00:28:17,321 --> 00:28:20,825
and made a really gorgeous book
out of them.
451
00:28:26,246 --> 00:28:29,841
You know, studios used to
trade people like baseball teams do.
452
00:28:29,917 --> 00:28:31,669
And one day they got a call.
453
00:28:31,752 --> 00:28:34,505
They wanted somebody to work on
The Ten Commandments.
454
00:28:34,588 --> 00:28:36,010
So they sent me over there,
455
00:28:36,089 --> 00:28:39,514
and I was interviewed
at Paramount, and I got the job.
456
00:28:39,593 --> 00:28:43,268
I have hundreds of storyboards
of The Ten Commandments
457
00:28:43,347 --> 00:28:45,315
and sketches that I worked on.
458
00:28:45,390 --> 00:28:47,313
That was the big break for me.
459
00:28:53,357 --> 00:28:59,364
I know we did almost every setup and scene
in The Ten Commandments, Bill Major and I.
460
00:28:59,446 --> 00:29:02,165
Hundreds and hundreds,
maybe thousands of drawings,
461
00:29:02,241 --> 00:29:03,834
and they were all used.
462
00:29:20,092 --> 00:29:22,015
William Dieterle called Ken Reed,
463
00:29:22,094 --> 00:29:25,018
who was sketching at the time,
to meet in the men's room
464
00:29:25,097 --> 00:29:27,441
to talk about a certain sequence.
465
00:29:27,516 --> 00:29:29,268
That's how strict it was.
466
00:29:29,351 --> 00:29:31,900
He didn't want anybody to know
that he was using storyboard,
467
00:29:31,979 --> 00:29:34,698
and we weren't allowed
to contact these people.
468
00:29:34,773 --> 00:29:37,822
There was a terrific caste system then.
469
00:29:37,901 --> 00:29:39,995
I'm talking about sketch artists.
470
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:43,074
In those days,
when you were drawing boards
471
00:29:43,156 --> 00:29:46,080
for somebody like DeMille,
you wouldn't even see the director.
472
00:29:46,159 --> 00:29:49,959
You'd hand it to the art director, and he
would show it to the production designer,
473
00:29:50,038 --> 00:29:52,257
and he would show it to
the director and say,
474
00:29:52,332 --> 00:29:54,380
Can we use this?
475
00:29:54,459 --> 00:29:56,461
I never had contact with DeMille.
476
00:29:56,545 --> 00:30:01,392
And I don't know who his cameraman was,
but I never had a contact with him.
477
00:30:01,466 --> 00:30:04,595
But I know when I see the movie,
I'd see my sketches.
478
00:30:08,223 --> 00:30:11,318
From there, because now
I've been doing something biblical,
479
00:30:11,393 --> 00:30:13,316
I got a call from MGM
480
00:30:13,395 --> 00:30:16,820
to work on Ben-Hur, and so I went down
and worked on Ben-Hur
481
00:30:16,898 --> 00:30:18,866
because I was good
with people with sheets.
482
00:30:19,484 --> 00:30:21,532
From there, went up to Spartacus.
483
00:30:21,611 --> 00:30:23,113
With doing all these things,
484
00:30:23,196 --> 00:30:25,870
I almost forgot
how to draw a guy with a tie.
485
00:30:30,287 --> 00:30:31,960
When we were married,
486
00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:34,337
women were not expected
to have any kind of career
487
00:30:34,416 --> 00:30:36,760
outside of motherhood and children.
488
00:30:36,835 --> 00:30:41,932
It was a big hole in my life always
when I was rearing our children.
489
00:30:42,007 --> 00:30:45,557
And I was vaguely dissatisfied then.
490
00:30:45,635 --> 00:30:47,603
Didn't know what it was.
491
00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:49,898
I read all the time.
492
00:30:49,973 --> 00:30:51,600
That was my escape.
493
00:30:59,691 --> 00:31:01,693
When women were asked if they could type,
494
00:31:01,777 --> 00:31:05,702
when it was the only kind of job
they could get, well, Lillian didn't type.
495
00:31:05,781 --> 00:31:09,035
And so what do you do
when the kids are in school?
496
00:31:09,117 --> 00:31:13,497
So, by God, you know,
she found what she could do.
497
00:31:14,414 --> 00:31:17,213
Harold was working at Goldwyn Studios
498
00:31:17,292 --> 00:31:19,340
on West Side Story,
499
00:31:19,419 --> 00:31:23,765
and the research library
was right across the hall from his office,
500
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,140
and he used to go in there
quite often for research.
501
00:31:27,844 --> 00:31:30,939
The lady there was completely by herself.
502
00:31:31,014 --> 00:31:33,016
Her name was Lelia Alexander.
503
00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:36,400
And he said, You could use a volunteer.
504
00:31:36,478 --> 00:31:39,277
And he came home and told me what he said,
505
00:31:39,356 --> 00:31:42,109
and I said, I could be that volunteer.
506
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:48,207
I was getting a college education
working on all these different movies.
507
00:31:48,281 --> 00:31:52,536
I was plunged into a different life
with each movie.
508
00:31:53,328 --> 00:31:57,879
In 1962,
I was given a lot of responsibility.
509
00:31:57,958 --> 00:32:01,929
I felt very honored and very apprehensive.
510
00:32:02,671 --> 00:32:06,016
I was asked to research
Manchurian Candidate.
511
00:32:06,091 --> 00:32:09,686
And then Cape Fear and The Longest Day.
512
00:32:09,761 --> 00:32:13,482
And then the high point
of that year was The Birds.
513
00:32:13,557 --> 00:32:18,905
That was Harold's picture,
and so much happened on The Birds.
514
00:32:22,232 --> 00:32:26,408
I was asked to research
the behavior of various birds,
515
00:32:26,486 --> 00:32:32,209
how they looked, how they flew,
what their habitat was.
516
00:32:33,201 --> 00:32:36,455
I would give the research
directly to my husband.
517
00:32:37,622 --> 00:32:41,968
Harold and I became a team in work
518
00:32:42,043 --> 00:32:45,092
as well as, I hope, in our marriage,
519
00:32:45,172 --> 00:32:48,426
because I was helping him
with his research
520
00:32:48,508 --> 00:32:51,182
whether I was on his picture or not.
521
00:32:51,803 --> 00:32:54,682
We hashed things out at the dinner table
522
00:32:54,764 --> 00:32:58,109
when we could get ourselves
heard above the kids yelling.
523
00:32:58,185 --> 00:33:00,813
It was a good thing. It really was.
524
00:33:00,896 --> 00:33:03,149
It made us feel that we two together
525
00:33:03,231 --> 00:33:08,283
were against the industry
that might be trying to harm us
526
00:33:08,361 --> 00:33:10,284
or stand in our way.
527
00:33:10,363 --> 00:33:11,740
We were the team.
528
00:33:14,284 --> 00:33:18,881
In this town, what works
against a marriage lasting
529
00:33:18,955 --> 00:33:20,957
are locations.
530
00:33:21,541 --> 00:33:24,545
So often the husband is sent away,
531
00:33:24,628 --> 00:33:27,928
and usually the wife is encumbered,
532
00:33:28,006 --> 00:33:30,976
if you want to say it that way,
with growing children.
533
00:33:32,135 --> 00:33:34,263
You must have shared experiences
534
00:33:34,346 --> 00:33:38,567
for a marriage to have
some kind of soil to grow on.
535
00:33:38,642 --> 00:33:41,771
If you're living a separate life at home,
536
00:33:41,853 --> 00:33:46,859
and he's living a separate life
in Yugoslavia, that doesn't work.
537
00:33:49,444 --> 00:33:52,414
When he was on The Birds in Bodega Bay,
538
00:33:52,489 --> 00:33:55,163
which is quite a distance
from Leos Angeles,
539
00:33:55,242 --> 00:33:59,372
I would have a chance to go up
once a month by air.
540
00:33:59,454 --> 00:34:02,298
And then I would have to take a bus
541
00:34:02,374 --> 00:34:05,628
where they were in Bodega Bay,
it was rather isolated.
542
00:34:07,587 --> 00:34:12,184
One weekend, our bus was filled
with such pretty young girls,
543
00:34:12,259 --> 00:34:16,480
and they were all joyous and energetic
and having a great time.
544
00:34:18,431 --> 00:34:23,688
That evening, we went out with
several of his buddies from the picture.
545
00:34:23,770 --> 00:34:28,071
And the buddies had some
of these pretty girls with them.
546
00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:33,531
Suddenly, I felt a hand
on my thigh during dinner,
547
00:34:33,613 --> 00:34:35,707
and a lightbulb went on.
548
00:34:35,782 --> 00:34:38,080
All those pretty young girls
549
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,663
were hookers
who were hired for the weekend
550
00:34:41,746 --> 00:34:45,376
for these very, very lonely men up there.
551
00:34:46,585 --> 00:34:49,088
And Harold, of course, had no idea.
552
00:34:49,170 --> 00:34:52,140
I said, Harold,
I have to see you for a minute.
553
00:34:52,215 --> 00:34:56,721
And I took him outside and I said,
Harold, they're all hookers.
554
00:34:57,429 --> 00:35:00,774
And I think that your buddies
think I'm a hooker too,
555
00:35:00,849 --> 00:35:05,195
'cause you just introduced me
with one name, my first name.
556
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:09,070
So I think you better get it over to them
that we're married,
557
00:35:09,149 --> 00:35:13,074
because I don't want this
to happen again.
558
00:35:13,153 --> 00:35:15,076
He was just horrified.
559
00:35:15,947 --> 00:35:18,746
So that went smoothly.
560
00:35:20,076 --> 00:35:24,832
His relationship with Hitchcock
was very, very special,
561
00:35:24,914 --> 00:35:28,214
because Hitchcock
deliberately asked for him
562
00:35:28,293 --> 00:35:33,424
to leave the studio and come up
to where Hitchcock was on location.
563
00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:39,601
It was his big break,
the first time that a director
564
00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:43,934
ever asked for him
to work with him directly.
565
00:35:45,310 --> 00:35:47,654
I was working on The Birds at Universal
566
00:35:47,729 --> 00:35:49,447
and then Marnie.
567
00:35:49,522 --> 00:35:53,493
And I got to meet Hitchcock,
and I learned a hell of a lot.
568
00:35:53,568 --> 00:35:56,492
I learned a tremendous amount
from this man
569
00:35:56,571 --> 00:35:59,825
who, to me, is cinema.
570
00:36:00,909 --> 00:36:02,752
Well, I'll tell you quite frankly,
571
00:36:02,827 --> 00:36:05,751
after I would do a sequence,
which I thought was terrific,
572
00:36:05,830 --> 00:36:09,130
and I'd show it to him,
he would look and agree
573
00:36:09,209 --> 00:36:12,509
that it was terrific,
but he couldn't use it at this spot.
574
00:36:12,587 --> 00:36:16,217
And I couldn't understand that,
because this is terrific.
575
00:36:16,299 --> 00:36:18,472
What's with this guy?
576
00:36:18,551 --> 00:36:20,974
But then he would proceed to explain why,
577
00:36:21,054 --> 00:36:23,523
because he was building up a certain area
578
00:36:23,598 --> 00:36:25,396
and it was very much like a symphony,
579
00:36:25,475 --> 00:36:28,775
and I was constantly anticlimactic
with what I was doing.
580
00:36:28,853 --> 00:36:32,153
It was no place for it,
and he was absolutely right.
581
00:36:32,232 --> 00:36:35,702
And so I did learn a lot from him.
582
00:36:39,823 --> 00:36:41,871
When I was given the script to The Birds,
583
00:36:41,950 --> 00:36:44,999
I felt that the script itself,
the words itself,
584
00:36:45,078 --> 00:36:49,128
had to be enhanced by a lot of images.
585
00:36:50,417 --> 00:36:54,047
I did little compositions,
and many of my sketches
586
00:36:54,129 --> 00:36:57,679
were accepted by Hitchcock
and actually were shot that way.
587
00:36:58,550 --> 00:37:03,772
When I read about the scene
when the attendant was hit by a bird,
588
00:37:03,847 --> 00:37:06,566
and gasoline started to flow
down the street.
589
00:37:06,641 --> 00:37:08,314
Well, I just drew it that way.
590
00:37:09,602 --> 00:37:12,947
Cut back to Tippi
and cut back again to the stream,
591
00:37:13,022 --> 00:37:16,026
and then cut to the man
getting out of his car.
592
00:37:16,609 --> 00:37:19,158
It was very obvious to me
that these were the scenes.
593
00:37:19,237 --> 00:37:20,864
There was no talking.
594
00:37:20,947 --> 00:37:22,494
And it worked.
595
00:37:32,167 --> 00:37:36,172
A lot of the indications
for how an action scene would be done
596
00:37:36,254 --> 00:37:38,928
would appear in the storyboards,
not in the script.
597
00:37:39,007 --> 00:37:41,385
A Hitchcock script
was a pretty simple thing.
598
00:37:42,010 --> 00:37:44,183
Storyboarding is writing in a lot of ways.
599
00:37:44,262 --> 00:37:48,187
You're telling more of the story
through the visuals in a film
600
00:37:48,266 --> 00:37:50,064
than you are through
the dialogue necessarily.
601
00:37:50,143 --> 00:37:52,145
And, at least,
ideally that would be the case,
602
00:37:52,228 --> 00:37:54,822
and certainly that was the case
for somebody like Hitchcock.
603
00:37:55,899 --> 00:38:00,245
The storyboards are a working document
that the crew can look at,
604
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,449
but really they're sort of
a visual screenplay.
605
00:38:03,531 --> 00:38:06,375
Well, actually, you see,
this is not the script.
606
00:38:06,451 --> 00:38:08,874
This is pure Hitchcock.
607
00:38:08,953 --> 00:38:13,129
The script doesn't say
that these are individual shots.
608
00:38:14,209 --> 00:38:16,337
Hitchcock put them up in slides.
609
00:38:16,419 --> 00:38:20,219
He would show them on a screen
and the editor, Tomasini,
610
00:38:20,298 --> 00:38:22,767
and Hitch and myself were in this room.
611
00:38:23,843 --> 00:38:27,689
And he was cutting it by calling out
how many frames he wanted.
612
00:38:28,807 --> 00:38:31,651
He would say to the editor,
Twelve frames,
613
00:38:31,726 --> 00:38:35,230
and the editor would take it down
a foot of film or whatever,
614
00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:38,988
and he actually sat there
in the screening room
615
00:38:39,067 --> 00:38:42,571
and edited this whole sequence.
616
00:38:46,741 --> 00:38:50,166
And he would see
these quick cuts of absolute terror
617
00:38:50,245 --> 00:38:53,545
with blood running down
and her screaming and everything.
618
00:38:53,623 --> 00:38:56,342
And by God,
I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
619
00:38:56,417 --> 00:38:59,591
That was Hitchcock. I was there.
It was amazing.
620
00:39:00,088 --> 00:39:02,637
Tomasini was a brilliant editor.
621
00:39:02,715 --> 00:39:06,936
Harold was a brilliant art director
and storyboard illustrator.
622
00:39:07,011 --> 00:39:09,434
Boyle was a brilliant production designer.
623
00:39:09,514 --> 00:39:12,393
Whitlock was a brilliant matte artist.
624
00:39:12,475 --> 00:39:16,480
These guys weren't just good.
They were geniuses in their own right.
625
00:39:23,194 --> 00:39:25,913
The ones they did together
were Marnie and The Birds,
626
00:39:25,989 --> 00:39:28,617
and there's just no two
more beautiful films than that,
627
00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:30,828
and these are the guys that did it.
628
00:39:34,539 --> 00:39:38,043
They could give him
exactly what he wanted.
629
00:39:38,126 --> 00:39:41,096
They could see it when he saw it,
630
00:39:41,170 --> 00:39:44,549
and they could make it
come to life for real.
631
00:39:45,174 --> 00:39:48,269
That's why I call them
Hitchcock's visualizers.
632
00:39:48,887 --> 00:39:50,480
That's what I think they were.
633
00:39:50,555 --> 00:39:54,355
Pardon me,
but you're Peggy Nicholson, aren't you?
634
00:39:55,226 --> 00:39:56,819
Remember me?
635
00:39:59,731 --> 00:40:01,358
These were all nice people.
636
00:40:01,441 --> 00:40:04,115
I didn't find a real shithead
in the whole bunch.
637
00:40:04,193 --> 00:40:09,666
And Lenny South, he loved storyboard,
because it's a form of communication.
638
00:40:09,741 --> 00:40:11,414
And there it is, it's there.
639
00:40:11,492 --> 00:40:14,746
How did you think of this?
I don't give a damn how you thought of it.
640
00:40:14,829 --> 00:40:17,252
It looks terrific. Or it doesn't.
641
00:40:19,709 --> 00:40:22,553
"A vision of beauty, my heart's desire.
642
00:40:22,629 --> 00:40:25,428
Sonnets write that you inspire.
643
00:40:25,506 --> 00:40:28,385
Songs that are sung by a heavenly choir,
644
00:40:28,468 --> 00:40:31,563
a Work of art' that makes masters ref/re.
645
00:40:31,638 --> 00:40:35,108
But my ardor burns highest',
like a six-alarm fire,
646
00:40:35,183 --> 00:40:38,904
When you 're sitting and cooking
in your GE dryer.
647
00:40:38,978 --> 00:40:42,278
From your 1.965 Valentine, me.
648
00:40:59,624 --> 00:41:03,754
She said to me,
I have been here since 1932.
649
00:41:03,836 --> 00:41:10,094
I can't even fathom moving my library,
or going anywhere else with it.
650
00:41:10,176 --> 00:41:11,894
You buy it.
651
00:41:11,970 --> 00:41:14,268
I said, With what?
652
00:41:14,347 --> 00:41:17,726
All of our extra money
was going for treatment
653
00:41:17,809 --> 00:41:19,436
for our autistic child.
654
00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:24,025
So money was always tight.
Let's put it that way.
655
00:41:26,067 --> 00:41:28,115
She was very psychic.
656
00:41:28,194 --> 00:41:29,616
She was very spiritual.
657
00:41:29,696 --> 00:41:33,917
She says, Oh I see you owning
this library, Lillian.
658
00:41:33,992 --> 00:41:35,460
Make it happen.
659
00:41:35,535 --> 00:41:36,787
I said, Really?
660
00:41:36,869 --> 00:41:38,792
She says, You can make it happen.
661
00:41:38,871 --> 00:41:43,342
I went home and I said,
Harold, can I borrow the money
662
00:41:43,418 --> 00:41:47,969
to buy the library
on your life insurance policy?
663
00:41:48,047 --> 00:41:50,675
He didn't hesitate one bit.
He said, Of course.
664
00:41:56,931 --> 00:41:59,104
When Lillian showed up
with the research library,
665
00:41:59,183 --> 00:42:00,810
it was a natural.
666
00:42:00,893 --> 00:42:03,772
I mean, here was a research library,
and these are all filmmakers.
667
00:42:03,855 --> 00:42:07,405
I had space and religion
next to each other
668
00:42:07,483 --> 00:42:10,236
because they both belonged in the heavens.
669
00:42:10,319 --> 00:42:15,166
So I had a rather unusual filing system,
but it worked for me.
670
00:42:16,284 --> 00:42:18,958
David Lynch was one of the students there,
671
00:42:19,037 --> 00:42:23,258
and he was the only one
who took the time to figure out
672
00:42:23,332 --> 00:42:27,382
where the borrowed book was supposed to go
673
00:42:27,462 --> 00:42:29,681
and he'd put it back in the right place.
674
00:42:29,756 --> 00:42:32,009
And I do thank you, David, for that.
675
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,144
TOM:
Solid research makes great storytelling.
676
00:42:35,219 --> 00:42:36,641
Without the research,
677
00:42:36,721 --> 00:42:40,316
you don't have the depth of the content
for character and story.
678
00:42:40,391 --> 00:42:43,736
And it is critical,
and we take it for granted.
679
00:42:44,312 --> 00:42:49,443
Lillian is an incredible resource
for every bit of history.
680
00:42:49,525 --> 00:42:51,527
You know, all the architecture,
681
00:42:51,611 --> 00:42:55,411
all the props,
all the costumes, all the design.
682
00:42:55,490 --> 00:42:59,461
Like as quick as could be,
if you talk about a movie
683
00:42:59,535 --> 00:43:02,038
that you were thinking about making,
I'm telling you,
684
00:43:02,121 --> 00:43:05,125
she would follow up
without even asking her.
685
00:43:05,208 --> 00:43:08,257
She would send you moldings
from the building
686
00:43:08,336 --> 00:43:10,509
that you think
you might be wanting to use.
687
00:43:11,089 --> 00:43:15,219
And that was like synergy
with Harold Michelson.
688
00:43:15,301 --> 00:43:18,646
He would take her research
and he would transpose it
689
00:43:18,721 --> 00:43:22,396
into a visual that related to
whatever movie you were doing.
690
00:43:22,975 --> 00:43:25,023
The way we utilize research is,
691
00:43:25,103 --> 00:43:27,356
this is a starting of a conception
692
00:43:27,438 --> 00:43:29,816
of the inside
of a locomotive factory in the '30s.
693
00:43:29,899 --> 00:43:34,621
And I have no idea what it looks like,
so I got a lot of information
694
00:43:34,695 --> 00:43:37,824
from all the research
that Lillian sends me from the files.
695
00:43:39,659 --> 00:43:43,084
When I was working on Fiddler on
the Roof, I was still at Greystone.
696
00:43:43,162 --> 00:43:46,792
There was this song,
Matchmaker, matchmaker.
697
00:43:46,874 --> 00:43:50,879
And they said, We don't know
how to make these underpants.
698
00:43:50,962 --> 00:43:54,057
So I said,
I don't have any pictures of that.
699
00:43:54,132 --> 00:43:57,762
Nobody took pictures
of Jewish girls' underwear
700
00:43:57,844 --> 00:44:00,563
in 1890s or '90s.
701
00:44:00,638 --> 00:44:04,484
They said, What are we going to
put on there? It has to be right.
702
00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:07,028
And, of course,
everything has to be right.
703
00:44:07,728 --> 00:44:11,904
So I sit on the bench
at Fairfax and Beverly,
704
00:44:11,983 --> 00:44:13,735
which is a Jewish section.
705
00:44:13,818 --> 00:44:18,119
And I sit there, and little old ladies
are sitting right by me.
706
00:44:18,197 --> 00:44:19,870
And I start talking about,
707
00:44:19,949 --> 00:44:23,579
I have to get pictures of this
for a certain project,
708
00:44:23,661 --> 00:44:28,087
and does anybody remember
what you wore in those days?
709
00:44:28,166 --> 00:44:30,339
Because they were of that age.
710
00:44:30,418 --> 00:44:33,388
One little old lady says, You stay here.
711
00:44:33,462 --> 00:44:37,057
I'm going to my apartment
and I'm gonna cut you out a pattern
712
00:44:37,133 --> 00:44:40,433
'cause we had to sew all our underwear.
713
00:44:40,511 --> 00:44:45,563
And she brings me back
a pattern with little scallops
714
00:44:45,641 --> 00:44:48,269
on the edges of the knee-length bloomers.
715
00:44:48,352 --> 00:44:52,402
It's just that I'm terrified
716
00:44:54,066 --> 00:44:57,320
Why it was so important
to have authenticity
717
00:44:57,403 --> 00:44:59,451
in the research that I did?
718
00:45:00,448 --> 00:45:04,919
Because it was the truth.
It was the reality of the subject.
719
00:45:05,912 --> 00:45:09,132
And it was a matter of pride...
720
00:45:10,499 --> 00:45:13,844
to get to the essence of the truth.
721
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,799
Or to show them
as many versions of the truth
722
00:45:16,881 --> 00:45:18,883
as I thought were possible.
723
00:45:18,966 --> 00:45:24,689
And also because
we were working in a lying industry.
724
00:45:24,764 --> 00:45:28,769
An industry that depended on lying
725
00:45:28,851 --> 00:45:32,526
to all of its customers.
726
00:45:32,605 --> 00:45:36,280
This that you're looking at
on the screen is reality,
727
00:45:36,359 --> 00:45:38,908
but we know it's a fantasy.
728
00:45:38,986 --> 00:45:41,535
So I was giving them reality
729
00:45:41,614 --> 00:45:44,333
that they were changing into fantasy,
730
00:45:44,408 --> 00:45:49,505
that was changing back into reality
for the people in the audience.
731
00:45:53,042 --> 00:45:56,342
The art director on Rain Man came to me
732
00:45:56,420 --> 00:46:01,551
and I had to supply the mental institution
that Rain Man was kept in.
733
00:46:01,634 --> 00:46:05,889
And then, of course,
all of the stops across the country
734
00:46:05,972 --> 00:46:08,851
had to be really, really researched.
735
00:46:08,933 --> 00:46:12,608
Rain Man was a picture
that touched me very deeply
736
00:46:12,687 --> 00:46:17,363
because we were contacted
by the film people who were making it,
737
00:46:17,441 --> 00:46:23,244
and they wanted to know if Dustin Hoffman
could follow my autistic son around
738
00:46:23,322 --> 00:46:29,000
to see his mannerisms
and get the feeling of an autistic person.
739
00:46:29,078 --> 00:46:31,706
I said no, because that would be
740
00:46:31,789 --> 00:46:34,918
really interfering with my son's privacy,
741
00:46:35,001 --> 00:46:40,349
but I did give the names
of six other so-called savants.
742
00:46:40,423 --> 00:46:44,223
And Dustin Hoffman
was able to follow one around.
743
00:46:44,885 --> 00:46:49,356
But it turned out to be
very much the story of our family.
744
00:46:50,641 --> 00:46:52,643
I was really troubled by Alan.
745
00:46:52,727 --> 00:46:56,277
He was already 23 and living at home.
746
00:46:56,355 --> 00:46:57,948
He started banging his head,
747
00:46:58,024 --> 00:47:02,530
which is an autistic way
of showing great frustration.
748
00:47:02,611 --> 00:47:07,492
Dr. Kivovitz at UCLA
gave me the best advice.
749
00:47:07,575 --> 00:47:12,547
He said, You're going to have
to let him go at a certain time.
750
00:47:12,621 --> 00:47:16,797
And he said,
Just imagine that you're dead.
751
00:47:16,876 --> 00:47:19,595
You're six feet under.
752
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:21,013
Because I was saying,
753
00:47:21,088 --> 00:47:24,388
He doesn't even put a raincoat on
when it's raining.
754
00:47:24,467 --> 00:47:26,970
And he said,
Are you going to get out of your grave
755
00:47:27,053 --> 00:47:30,307
and put a raincoat on your wet son?
756
00:47:30,389 --> 00:47:33,438
And those were the most valuable words
757
00:47:33,517 --> 00:47:38,318
that were ever spoken to me
by anyone in the medical field.
758
00:47:38,898 --> 00:47:41,617
And I said, That's so true.
759
00:47:41,692 --> 00:47:44,445
I have to make him self-sufficient.
760
00:47:44,528 --> 00:47:46,622
And I started from that time on.
761
00:47:47,740 --> 00:47:50,914
I think Harold
was very, very proud of him,
762
00:47:50,993 --> 00:47:53,246
but very protective of him.
763
00:47:53,329 --> 00:47:54,831
Once he said to me,
764
00:47:54,914 --> 00:47:57,713
we watched him going down
the street to catch a bus
765
00:47:57,792 --> 00:47:59,635
and he was in his 30s.
766
00:47:59,710 --> 00:48:03,590
He said, I feel so afraid
to let him out of my sight.
767
00:48:03,672 --> 00:48:06,095
I don't know
what's going to happen to him.
768
00:48:06,175 --> 00:48:10,430
I said, I feel that every day.
You just get used to it.
769
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,940
He's gone to college
and graduated college,
770
00:48:16,018 --> 00:48:20,148
has a degree
and works in computer science.
771
00:48:20,231 --> 00:48:23,405
He has his own apartment
and has a wonderful job
772
00:48:23,484 --> 00:48:28,786
and has had it for 15 years,
being a computer scientist and programmer.
773
00:48:28,864 --> 00:48:31,663
And he's ready to retire in five years.
774
00:48:31,742 --> 00:48:33,790
He's 63 now.
775
00:48:33,869 --> 00:48:35,997
I'm very proud of him.
776
00:48:38,874 --> 00:48:43,175
Hello, darkness, my old friend
777
00:48:43,254 --> 00:48:46,224
I 've come to talk with you again
778
00:48:46,298 --> 00:48:48,471
I got a call. It was from Mike Nichols.
779
00:48:48,551 --> 00:48:51,805
Come on over to Paramount
and we want to talk.
780
00:48:51,887 --> 00:48:54,481
And he had this book,
this soft-cover book.
781
00:48:54,557 --> 00:48:57,731
He said, I want you to read this.
Funniest damn thing I ever read.
782
00:48:57,810 --> 00:49:01,815
So I took it home and I read it,
and I didn't think it was funny.
783
00:49:01,897 --> 00:49:04,446
It was a soap opera
if there ever was one.
784
00:49:04,525 --> 00:49:08,075
So I gave it to Lillian to read,
and I said, Did you think it was funny?
785
00:49:08,154 --> 00:49:09,531
She said No.
786
00:49:09,613 --> 00:49:11,911
The most important thing about
being a storyboard artist
787
00:49:11,991 --> 00:49:13,743
is understanding filmmaking.
788
00:49:13,826 --> 00:49:15,544
The essence of storyboards
is communication.
789
00:49:15,619 --> 00:49:19,123
It's not about fine art.
790
00:49:19,206 --> 00:49:20,503
It's not about pretty pictures.
791
00:49:20,583 --> 00:49:23,052
Lots of people could draw better than him.
792
00:49:23,127 --> 00:49:24,845
Quote, unquote.
793
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,925
But that doesn't mean that they can
convey the cinema better than him.
794
00:49:29,008 --> 00:49:31,636
Would you want that person
who can create those images
795
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:33,016
or would you want Harold?
796
00:49:33,095 --> 00:49:34,847
Not just because he's a nice guy,
797
00:49:34,930 --> 00:49:37,103
but because he can understand your movie.
798
00:49:37,183 --> 00:49:40,483
He can give you back
your movie on a visual level
799
00:49:40,561 --> 00:49:42,905
that inspires you to make
a much better movie
800
00:49:42,980 --> 00:49:44,653
than you would otherwise.
801
00:49:44,732 --> 00:49:47,827
It's your ideas that they want.
They don't want your style.
802
00:49:47,902 --> 00:49:51,281
In reality, and I won't say this,
it's like directing.
803
00:49:51,363 --> 00:49:54,913
You have to have
all this knowledge of directing
804
00:49:54,992 --> 00:49:56,790
just for this piece of paper.
805
00:49:56,869 --> 00:50:00,169
After that, they can do whatever they want
with the piece of paper,
806
00:50:00,247 --> 00:50:04,377
but all these truths
are part of the art of cinema.
807
00:50:05,419 --> 00:50:07,968
Forget previs with all of our computers,
808
00:50:08,047 --> 00:50:10,550
Harold's brain
was the best computer there was.
809
00:50:10,633 --> 00:50:13,637
And he could draw
any sequence to any lens,
810
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,394
and you couldn't argue
with the careful realization
811
00:50:17,473 --> 00:50:19,692
in his very simple drawing.
812
00:50:20,809 --> 00:50:21,810
As a textbook example,
813
00:50:21,894 --> 00:50:24,738
I tell students to go look at
a sequence of drawings of his
814
00:50:24,813 --> 00:50:26,907
for a film as simple as The Graduate.
815
00:50:26,982 --> 00:50:29,986
You would think, why do you need
storyboards for The Graduate?
816
00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:32,492
It's just people in real time,
in real life.
817
00:50:33,989 --> 00:50:38,961
But there's that amazing sequence of Ben
diving in the pool...
818
00:50:41,830 --> 00:50:45,175
coming out of the pool
and leaping into Mrs. Robinson's bed.
819
00:50:46,252 --> 00:50:48,095
Ben, what are you doing?
820
00:50:52,049 --> 00:50:57,226
Well, I would say that
I'm just drifting here in the pool.
821
00:50:57,304 --> 00:50:58,146
Why?
822
00:50:59,974 --> 00:51:02,693
Well, it's very comfortable
just to drift here.
823
00:51:02,768 --> 00:51:05,362
And it's a seamless sequence
of storytelling,
824
00:51:05,437 --> 00:51:07,735
much of it with music in the movie.
825
00:51:07,815 --> 00:51:11,740
But Harold previsualized
that in a series of images,
826
00:51:11,819 --> 00:51:13,571
and they're absolutely spot-on.
827
00:51:13,654 --> 00:51:15,531
Nichols shot to those boards.
828
00:51:15,614 --> 00:51:17,457
The editor edited to those boards.
829
00:51:17,533 --> 00:51:21,037
And you could almost look at his boards
and use them as a flash book.
830
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,839
Mike Nichols did rehearsing on the stage.
831
00:51:24,498 --> 00:51:27,092
They'd all sit around a table
and read the script,
832
00:51:27,167 --> 00:51:31,263
and I was there, and we had a mock-up
of the bedroom with tape,
833
00:51:31,338 --> 00:51:33,090
and there was a bed there.
834
00:51:34,008 --> 00:51:37,603
And as they were talking and going
through the motions with Anne Bancroft,
835
00:51:37,678 --> 00:51:39,225
I would be walking around to see
836
00:51:39,305 --> 00:51:42,309
what would be good shots for this
so I could draw it up.
837
00:51:42,850 --> 00:51:45,478
Anne Bancroft wondered who I was,
and she challenged me,
838
00:51:45,561 --> 00:51:47,063
What are you doing here?
839
00:51:47,146 --> 00:51:49,240
I said, I'm doing
the storyboard on this scene.
840
00:51:49,315 --> 00:51:51,864
Harold must have seen
a lot of Fellini at that point.
841
00:51:51,942 --> 00:51:54,741
And the New Wave and all of that,
842
00:51:54,820 --> 00:51:57,164
'cause whoever made The Graduate
843
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:02,996
really knew the evolving visual language
of that period very well.
844
00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:05,456
When you have images
845
00:52:05,539 --> 00:52:09,794
that are like Mrs. Robinson
lifting her leg for Benjamin,
846
00:52:09,877 --> 00:52:12,426
or Benjamin in the church
847
00:52:12,504 --> 00:52:16,725
like a Christ figure up there,
you know, shouting, Elaine.
848
00:52:17,885 --> 00:52:19,887
Who is that guy? What's he doing?
849
00:52:19,970 --> 00:52:21,643
These are types of images
850
00:52:21,722 --> 00:52:25,101
that Harold would be able to evoke
by reading the script
851
00:52:25,184 --> 00:52:29,030
and not necessarily being literal
to what was in the script...
852
00:52:30,648 --> 00:52:34,528
but trying to take it to a moment
where it's a punctuation,
853
00:52:34,610 --> 00:52:36,829
so then you can move on
to the rest of the story
854
00:52:36,904 --> 00:52:39,032
and realize that the story
has been elevated
855
00:52:39,114 --> 00:52:42,288
to another level
because of the visualizations.
856
00:52:49,416 --> 00:52:52,386
Oh, I guess this isn't
the bathroom, is it?
857
00:52:52,461 --> 00:52:54,839
I'm trying to get
as many different compositions
858
00:52:54,922 --> 00:52:59,268
as I can without making it
a dull two-headed monster
859
00:52:59,343 --> 00:53:02,017
or a two-headed screen
of just two people talking
860
00:53:02,096 --> 00:53:05,771
and cutting back and forth,
which makes it absolutely deadly.
861
00:53:05,849 --> 00:53:08,773
I don't care how good the dialogue is.
862
00:53:09,978 --> 00:53:11,980
I know in The Graduate
there was this scene,
863
00:53:12,064 --> 00:53:14,408
and I decided to have in the foreground
864
00:53:14,483 --> 00:53:18,613
the angle of her leg,
which created a triangle,
865
00:53:18,696 --> 00:53:21,620
and put Dustin Hoffman in between.
866
00:53:21,699 --> 00:53:23,497
We saw him immediately,
867
00:53:23,575 --> 00:53:28,376
and you also got the feeling
of a sexual escapade.
868
00:53:28,872 --> 00:53:30,670
Mrs. Robinson, you're trying to seduce me.
869
00:53:32,668 --> 00:53:35,091
It worked. They did it that way.
870
00:53:37,089 --> 00:53:39,808
Most people don't know
what a storyboard artist is,
871
00:53:39,883 --> 00:53:43,057
and yet here it's obvious
that Harold was responsible
872
00:53:43,137 --> 00:53:46,687
for one of the most iconic moments
in cinema history.
873
00:53:46,765 --> 00:53:50,986
Which is actually pretty crazy
when you put it in those terms.
874
00:53:51,061 --> 00:53:52,233
Yeah.
875
00:53:54,273 --> 00:53:55,900
Oh, Surtees was marvelous.
876
00:53:55,983 --> 00:54:00,454
He came up to the art department and said,
Keep them coming. I love them.
877
00:54:00,529 --> 00:54:02,998
That's the first time
a cameraman ever said that,
878
00:54:03,073 --> 00:54:04,700
and this was Bob Surtees.
879
00:54:04,783 --> 00:54:09,163
He loved the storyboards,
and he set up for them whenever he could.
880
00:54:10,956 --> 00:54:12,754
When they were in the hotel room
881
00:54:12,833 --> 00:54:15,552
and they were finished
with their lovemaking,
882
00:54:15,627 --> 00:54:20,303
I took a shot from the TV set to Dustin.
883
00:54:20,382 --> 00:54:22,976
And I had her walking back and forth.
884
00:54:23,051 --> 00:54:25,645
He is watching TV. You just see him.
885
00:54:25,721 --> 00:54:28,224
And you see her, you don't see her head.
886
00:54:28,307 --> 00:54:31,402
It's from her neck down to knees, I guess.
887
00:54:31,477 --> 00:54:35,402
And she walks past in front
of the screen, getting dressed.
888
00:54:35,481 --> 00:54:40,203
She goes from left to right
and she puts on her underwear.
889
00:54:40,277 --> 00:54:42,871
And as she goes by,
she has more clothes on.
890
00:54:42,946 --> 00:54:45,950
Then from right to left
she puts on something else.
891
00:54:46,033 --> 00:54:47,910
And finally the door slams.
892
00:54:50,954 --> 00:54:54,834
I just did it. I thought it was
a hell of a shot, and I'm proud of it.
893
00:55:05,260 --> 00:55:08,480
Well, as we went through
the picture and as they were shooting,
894
00:55:08,555 --> 00:55:12,856
Mike Nichols has this sense of timing
and of comedy that's fantastic.
895
00:55:12,935 --> 00:55:15,859
I found myself laughing like hell
at the dailies.
896
00:55:15,938 --> 00:55:17,611
It was really funny.
897
00:55:17,689 --> 00:55:21,489
What he saw in it and what I saw in it
were two different things.
898
00:55:21,568 --> 00:55:22,740
And he made it.
899
00:55:22,820 --> 00:55:26,950
I mean, that's strictly a director's thing
with the dialogue.
900
00:55:49,471 --> 00:55:53,897
When Alan was 23
and the emptiness started,
901
00:55:53,976 --> 00:55:59,608
the first great
enormous feeling was relief,
902
00:55:59,690 --> 00:56:03,786
because there wouldn't be
so many interactions
903
00:56:03,861 --> 00:56:06,410
among the other children.
904
00:56:14,580 --> 00:56:16,708
When Rick was ready to leave,
905
00:56:16,790 --> 00:56:20,670
he lived in a tree house
with some of his friends for a while.
906
00:56:20,752 --> 00:56:23,301
And then he was married
907
00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:26,429
and went to New York
to try to be a photographer.
908
00:56:26,508 --> 00:56:30,058
He is an excellent photographer
and artist.
909
00:56:30,137 --> 00:56:33,732
Then Dennis was the closest one to follow
910
00:56:33,807 --> 00:56:37,357
in what his father did in the industry.
911
00:56:37,436 --> 00:56:42,112
He became an excellent
supervisor of visual effects.
912
00:56:47,321 --> 00:56:49,164
It's ironic, a hospital set.
913
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:55,087
And Harold climbs up on the hospital set
because his friend invited him.
914
00:56:55,162 --> 00:57:00,419
And the whole set crashed,
just gave way, disintegrated,
915
00:57:00,500 --> 00:57:04,425
and hurled Harold two floors
down to a cement floor.
916
00:57:04,504 --> 00:57:06,882
When they dug him out,
they thought he was dead.
917
00:57:08,091 --> 00:57:11,265
He had a bad concussion
and the leg was crushed.
918
00:57:12,721 --> 00:57:14,394
They took him to Saint Joseph's,
919
00:57:14,473 --> 00:57:18,979
and they said they wanted
to amputate the leg, and I said no.
920
00:57:19,937 --> 00:57:22,690
So we got him out with an ambulance,
921
00:57:23,523 --> 00:57:28,245
and we went to a private hospital
on Ventura.
922
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:33,201
And this guy who I never met before said,
I can save the leg.
923
00:57:34,451 --> 00:57:36,795
He was operated on the next day.
924
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:40,465
And then I found out
from a disgruntled lady nurse
925
00:57:40,540 --> 00:57:45,922
that this hospital was mostly renowned
for face-lifts.
926
00:57:46,964 --> 00:57:49,968
So I whisked him by ambulance to UCLA...
927
00:57:50,968 --> 00:57:54,097
and there he recovered
as well as he could,
928
00:57:54,179 --> 00:57:57,308
considering the orthopedic guy
929
00:57:57,391 --> 00:58:01,066
was not at the top of his profession.
930
00:58:01,770 --> 00:58:03,363
And, uh-
931
00:58:03,438 --> 00:58:10,071
So that was the start of a year
where he was in pain constantly.
932
00:58:13,865 --> 00:58:17,290
What it did to his head,
I can only imagine,
933
00:58:17,369 --> 00:58:21,670
because he was literally,
knocked out of commission.
934
00:58:21,748 --> 00:58:25,469
And he had to stay in bed.
His leg was so painful.
935
00:58:25,544 --> 00:58:28,514
I think the first thing
was a very, very normal thing
936
00:58:28,588 --> 00:58:30,682
for him to have happen to him.
937
00:58:30,757 --> 00:58:34,387
He went into a very deep, deep depression.
938
00:58:35,679 --> 00:58:38,853
He was worried that
his talent had disappeared.
939
00:58:38,932 --> 00:58:41,606
I said, It just doesn't up and disappear
940
00:58:41,685 --> 00:58:46,657
just because you had an accident
on your foot- leg.
941
00:58:46,732 --> 00:58:48,985
He said, How do I know?
942
00:58:49,067 --> 00:58:51,911
How do I know when it goes
or when it comes?
943
00:58:51,987 --> 00:58:54,240
We all know it's mysterious.
944
00:58:54,322 --> 00:58:58,418
I said, Yeah, that's true,
but I don't think it goes that quickly.
945
00:59:00,787 --> 00:59:03,461
I said, Do you want to draw at home?
946
00:59:03,540 --> 00:59:05,008
He said, No, no, no.
947
00:59:05,083 --> 00:59:07,506
I draw only with my friends around me.
948
00:59:09,337 --> 00:59:11,339
This was a very, very difficult year,
949
00:59:11,423 --> 00:59:14,927
and I think the way
that Harold coped with it was
950
00:59:15,010 --> 00:59:19,436
how a lot of brave men did,
they started to drink.
951
00:59:19,514 --> 00:59:21,562
And Harold drank.
952
00:59:22,184 --> 00:59:24,107
I'd come back from work
953
00:59:24,186 --> 00:59:29,943
and find him smelling from liquor
and being difficult.
954
00:59:30,942 --> 00:59:34,913
When Harold was drinking
during those months and years,
955
00:59:34,988 --> 00:59:39,038
he became mean when he got awake
and he would argue with me.
956
00:59:39,117 --> 00:59:43,042
I'm afraid that I gave him an ultimatum.
957
00:59:43,121 --> 00:59:46,295
And I said to him,
If you continue this drinking,
958
00:59:46,374 --> 00:59:48,251
I have to leave you.
959
00:59:48,335 --> 00:59:52,260
And that's- That was it. He just stopped.
960
00:59:54,132 --> 00:59:57,227
And I admire that tremendously.
961
00:59:57,302 --> 01:00:02,524
It was- I can't imagine
how difficult it was for him.
962
01:00:02,599 --> 01:00:04,601
I just can't even imagine.
963
01:00:06,186 --> 01:00:11,113
So skip over a few months,
really sad months,
964
01:00:11,191 --> 01:00:14,821
and he gets a call
from his friend Ted Haworth,
965
01:00:14,903 --> 01:00:17,952
and he says,
I'm starting a picture in Yugoslavia
966
01:00:18,031 --> 01:00:22,377
and it's called Cross of Iron
and I'd love for you to be my assistant.
967
01:00:22,452 --> 01:00:25,672
I can just about imagine
what it meant to Harold.
968
01:00:26,957 --> 01:00:30,086
He said, You know what
I want to do when I can?
969
01:00:30,168 --> 01:00:32,387
I want to camp in Europe.
970
01:00:32,462 --> 01:00:35,090
Anything he wanted was okay with me.
971
01:00:35,173 --> 01:00:36,846
He was alive.
972
01:00:37,843 --> 01:00:40,767
And so we went to Europe,
973
01:00:40,846 --> 01:00:47,650
and we bought a boxy orange VW camper
with a top that raises.
974
01:00:48,228 --> 01:00:52,734
But it didn't work out very, very well,
because in the middle of Germany,
975
01:00:52,816 --> 01:00:56,161
he was moaning with pain,
and I was frantic.
976
01:00:56,236 --> 01:00:58,864
I didn't know what to do to help him.
977
01:00:58,947 --> 01:01:00,449
I don't speak German.
978
01:01:01,867 --> 01:01:05,588
I drive up to the Krankenhaus,
the hospital on the hill,
979
01:01:05,662 --> 01:01:09,542
and thank God,
the head director speaks some English.
980
01:01:09,624 --> 01:01:14,255
And he explains that this town
is Garmisch-Partenkirchen,
981
01:01:14,337 --> 01:01:19,594
it's the ski center of the European world,
everybody breaks a leg here,
982
01:01:19,676 --> 01:01:23,806
and their hospital
is the forefront of research
983
01:01:23,889 --> 01:01:27,109
on breaking legs and how to heal them.
984
01:01:27,726 --> 01:01:29,820
It was a crazy hospital.
985
01:01:29,895 --> 01:01:31,897
They had heart patients there.
986
01:01:31,980 --> 01:01:35,655
They fed them sausages
and beer all day long.
987
01:01:35,734 --> 01:01:40,160
Germany has a different outlook
on some things.
988
01:01:41,573 --> 01:01:46,374
After nine weeks, his leg healed
to a considerable degree,
989
01:01:46,453 --> 01:01:48,376
and he could put more weight on it,
990
01:01:48,455 --> 01:01:53,552
and he thought that he could really work
on Ted's picture.
991
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,547
That was an experience,
992
01:01:56,630 --> 01:02:03,263
getting the camper over
from Germany to Yugoslavia in a blizzard,
993
01:02:03,345 --> 01:02:05,063
and I was driving.
994
01:02:05,138 --> 01:02:08,233
When you go through Switzerland,
it's just sheer drops.
995
01:02:08,308 --> 01:02:11,562
There are no guards.
It was a big camper.
996
01:02:12,604 --> 01:02:15,949
It was snowing so badly
I couldn't see in front of me.
997
01:02:17,025 --> 01:02:19,995
And I thought,
If I get Harold and me through this,
998
01:02:20,070 --> 01:02:23,540
I will never be scared
of anything in my life again.
999
01:02:24,741 --> 01:02:27,540
That didn't work.
I'm still scared of things.
1000
01:02:28,078 --> 01:02:29,955
But I got us through.
1001
01:02:31,331 --> 01:02:36,053
Well, Harold's job on that film
was Storyboarding.
1002
01:02:36,836 --> 01:02:39,965
And Ted Haworth
made fun of him being a cripple
1003
01:02:40,048 --> 01:02:42,267
in front of the whole company, saying,
1004
01:02:42,342 --> 01:02:44,845
Come on, cripple.
Try to keep up with us.
1005
01:02:44,928 --> 01:02:46,271
That's a direct quote.
1006
01:02:47,264 --> 01:02:50,859
And then he got somebody to fire Harold.
1007
01:02:50,934 --> 01:02:54,564
That was a very, very
bad experience for Harold.
1008
01:02:54,646 --> 01:02:57,240
Really, it just shriveled his soul.
1009
01:02:57,315 --> 01:03:01,616
And I wrote a nine-page letter
to Ted saying,
1010
01:03:01,695 --> 01:03:04,539
That was the shabbiest thing
that you ever did
1011
01:03:04,614 --> 01:03:08,244
in the shabby life that you have.
1012
01:03:08,326 --> 01:03:11,170
Then I get a letter back from Ted.
1013
01:03:11,246 --> 01:03:13,795
He's dead now, so I feel I can talk.
1014
01:03:13,873 --> 01:03:19,130
And he wrote me an 18-page letter
which shows what a psychopath he was.
1015
01:03:19,212 --> 01:03:22,307
And he says,
You're a baby-faced killer...
1016
01:03:23,633 --> 01:03:25,476
and I wouldn't be surprised
1017
01:03:25,552 --> 01:03:28,647
if you come after me
with a gun one of these days.
1018
01:03:28,722 --> 01:03:30,224
I saved the letter.
1019
01:03:30,307 --> 01:03:35,029
So in one of the poems,
I'm a baby-faced killer,
1020
01:03:35,103 --> 01:03:37,197
to make it relevant.
1021
01:03:37,272 --> 01:03:38,649
Also very funny.
1022
01:03:39,232 --> 01:03:41,781
We must proceed with gentle stealth
1023
01:03:41,860 --> 01:03:44,454
when We discuss Ted 's mental health.
1024
01:03:44,529 --> 01:03:47,203
Each day driving to the studio's piran
1025
01:03:47,282 --> 01:03:50,661
with the Oscar-winning Sirhan Sirhan
1026
01:03:50,744 --> 01:03:56,296
His letter is full of raving and yelling
and loaded with second grade spelling.
1027
01:03:56,374 --> 01:03:59,048
On the toilet of life,
he pulls his own chain,
1028
01:03:59,127 --> 01:04:03,473
and, like Nixon,
We Watch as he goes down the drain.
1029
01:04:03,548 --> 01:04:06,927
One thing he left me, and I! is a chiller,
1030
01:04:07,010 --> 01:04:10,935
that' / am the husband
of a baby-faced killer!
1031
01:04:11,014 --> 01:04:14,188
Happy Birthday 76.
1032
01:04:18,438 --> 01:04:20,987
After ten years, in 1979,
1033
01:04:21,066 --> 01:04:25,321
the American Film Institute told me
that they had no room for my library,
1034
01:04:25,403 --> 01:04:28,782
they needed the basement for filming.
1035
01:04:28,865 --> 01:04:31,709
In 1980, Francis Coppola bought
1036
01:04:31,785 --> 01:04:36,916
the old Hollywood General Studios
and created his own Zoetrope Studios.
1037
01:04:36,998 --> 01:04:40,673
It had always been his dream
to have a Hollywood studio
1038
01:04:40,752 --> 01:04:43,005
in the style of the old-fashioned ones.
1039
01:04:43,088 --> 01:04:46,388
So he said, I want a research library
for my studio.
1040
01:04:46,466 --> 01:04:49,686
And then Mary Anne Biddle came to me
1041
01:04:49,761 --> 01:04:53,106
and said she was representing
Francis Coppola,
1042
01:04:53,181 --> 01:04:56,526
and they would like very,
very much for me to join them
1043
01:04:56,601 --> 01:05:01,573
and make quality films,
and it would have a creative renaissance.
1044
01:05:01,648 --> 01:05:04,868
So of course I said, Yes! Lovely.
1045
01:05:04,943 --> 01:05:07,662
I am thinking back to those first days
1046
01:05:07,737 --> 01:05:12,538
when we first took occupancy
of the Hollywood General Studios,
1047
01:05:12,617 --> 01:05:16,087
and there was a bungalow on the studio
that I'll never forget.
1048
01:05:16,162 --> 01:05:19,166
It was the Lillian Michelson Library.
1049
01:05:20,500 --> 01:05:23,174
I was told he would sit on
one of the benches
1050
01:05:23,253 --> 01:05:26,097
and look at the bungalow
where the library is
1051
01:05:26,172 --> 01:05:30,723
and he'd say, I'm so happy
there's a library on my studio lot.
1052
01:05:30,802 --> 01:05:34,306
Lillian and the facility
of the library was so helpful
1053
01:05:34,389 --> 01:05:37,359
on any request that we had.
1054
01:05:37,434 --> 01:05:39,778
He would come in all the time,
1055
01:05:39,853 --> 01:05:42,356
maybe even every day,
because he loves libraries.
1056
01:05:42,439 --> 01:05:45,784
As you can see,
I'm surrounded by his library.
1057
01:05:46,359 --> 01:05:47,986
I owe Lillian a lot.
1058
01:05:48,069 --> 01:05:51,790
I owe the fact that I'm here to her.
I owe my career to her.
1059
01:05:52,824 --> 01:05:57,876
I called Lillian, told her I was a student
that wanted to volunteer,
1060
01:05:57,954 --> 01:06:01,675
and she just immediately said,
When can you be here?
1061
01:06:01,749 --> 01:06:04,753
I remember thinking
the first week that I worked there,
1062
01:06:04,836 --> 01:06:08,261
ls this a library,
or is it a social club?
1063
01:06:08,339 --> 01:06:10,592
And it was both.
1064
01:06:10,675 --> 01:06:15,397
Everybody went there.
It was the heart of the studio.
1065
01:06:15,472 --> 01:06:19,397
And everybody found Lillian's bungalow
1066
01:06:19,476 --> 01:06:23,652
and would go there for tea,
chatting, read a book.
1067
01:06:23,730 --> 01:06:25,482
Most of the people that came in
1068
01:06:25,565 --> 01:06:29,240
were these young men
who worked in art departments,
1069
01:06:29,319 --> 01:06:31,287
young attractive men, so I thought,
1070
01:06:31,362 --> 01:06:34,081
Oh, I'm in
a pretty good situation here.
1071
01:06:34,157 --> 01:06:37,457
And, of course, they all looked on her
like the den mother,
1072
01:06:37,535 --> 01:06:42,132
dispensing advice-
not only research but advice.
1073
01:06:42,207 --> 01:06:44,926
The secretaries would come in and hang out
1074
01:06:45,001 --> 01:06:47,845
and tell Lillian what was happening
in their lives.
1075
01:06:47,921 --> 01:06:49,423
Francis would come in, hang out.
1076
01:06:49,506 --> 01:06:52,305
Francis's wife would come in, hang out.
1077
01:06:52,383 --> 01:06:55,557
Tom Waits certainly came in a few times.
1078
01:06:57,555 --> 01:06:59,899
Tom Waits was definitely an individual.
1079
01:06:59,974 --> 01:07:02,648
I didn't know who he was
'cause I'm a musical idiot.
1080
01:07:02,727 --> 01:07:07,028
And he just liked to sit there
and just talk about his life.
1081
01:07:07,106 --> 01:07:10,986
He had this gravelly voice
that just was fascinating,
1082
01:07:11,069 --> 01:07:13,868
because everything that came out of him
1083
01:07:13,947 --> 01:07:17,042
sounded as if it should be
a police confession.
1084
01:07:17,617 --> 01:07:19,711
These are films
that Lillian was working on
1085
01:07:19,786 --> 01:07:21,413
at the time I was with her.
1086
01:07:21,496 --> 01:07:23,544
You can see One from the Heart, Annie,
1087
01:07:23,623 --> 01:07:25,796
Stripes, Personal Best, Looker, Body Heat,
1088
01:07:25,875 --> 01:07:28,048
Hammett, Reds, Brenda Starr, Tucker,
1089
01:07:28,127 --> 01:07:31,722
Mommy Dearest, Ronnie Rocket', Rocky lll,
1090
01:07:31,798 --> 01:07:35,143
Blade Runner, Escape Artist, Idolmaker,
1091
01:07:35,218 --> 01:07:38,518
History of the World Part I, etcetera.
1092
01:07:38,596 --> 01:07:40,348
This is for Annie the movie.
1093
01:07:40,431 --> 01:07:43,776
This is what we were asked for,
and you can see the value of the library.
1094
01:07:43,851 --> 01:07:47,151
New York City bread lines,
strikes, lunchrooms, offices,
1095
01:07:47,230 --> 01:07:50,700
ticker tape machine, mounted police,
1096
01:07:50,775 --> 01:07:53,779
a coffee can 1933.
1097
01:07:53,861 --> 01:07:56,614
The movie Stripes,
the one with Bill Murray.
1098
01:07:56,698 --> 01:07:59,542
Mexican village square with fountain,
German hotels,
1099
01:07:59,617 --> 01:08:04,498
Italian billboards, Russian army bases,
jungle guerrilla camps.
1100
01:08:04,581 --> 01:08:07,334
Obviously, they built all that stuff.
They didn't go there.
1101
01:08:10,420 --> 01:08:12,639
And I thought, This is amazing.
1102
01:08:12,714 --> 01:08:15,843
This woman,
she's like at the top of her game
1103
01:08:15,925 --> 01:08:17,927
in terms of doing research.
1104
01:08:18,011 --> 01:08:19,763
There was nobody at my library school
1105
01:08:19,846 --> 01:08:22,099
who could compare with her
in that department.
1106
01:08:23,975 --> 01:08:25,818
Having been trained by her,
1107
01:08:25,893 --> 01:08:28,737
I would say that I do things
the way she would've done them,
1108
01:08:28,813 --> 01:08:32,067
a lot of ways of looking
for the subject in a roundabout way
1109
01:08:32,150 --> 01:08:35,074
and thinking outside the box,
thinking creatively.
1110
01:08:35,153 --> 01:08:37,497
If you can't find it
in the most direct way,
1111
01:08:37,572 --> 01:08:39,495
think all around it.
1112
01:08:39,574 --> 01:08:41,747
Lillian has this wonderful personality.
1113
01:08:41,826 --> 01:08:45,501
People don't say no to Lillian
when she's asking for something
1114
01:08:45,580 --> 01:08:47,457
or she's looking for information.
1115
01:08:47,540 --> 01:08:49,008
She was so charming.
1116
01:08:49,083 --> 01:08:50,881
I mean, she's basically a Southerner,
1117
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:54,180
so she had this very sort of
Southern charm
1118
01:08:54,255 --> 01:08:56,804
that could especially charm men.
1119
01:08:57,800 --> 01:08:59,427
Lillian is a small person.
1120
01:08:59,510 --> 01:09:01,854
She's nonthreatening,
unless you know her very well.
1121
01:09:01,929 --> 01:09:03,931
Then she could be very threatening.
1122
01:09:05,516 --> 01:09:07,610
Lillian is a force of nature.
1123
01:09:07,685 --> 01:09:10,609
You either get with her
or you get out of her way.
1124
01:09:10,688 --> 01:09:12,736
And the best thing about her was that
1125
01:09:12,815 --> 01:09:16,365
she was like a bulldog holding on
to your pants leg with her teeth.
1126
01:09:16,444 --> 01:09:19,118
She would never give up
on finding something.
1127
01:09:19,197 --> 01:09:22,201
If she didn't have it,
she would be calling somebody
1128
01:09:22,283 --> 01:09:24,285
who would call somebody
who would call somebody.
1129
01:09:24,369 --> 01:09:29,170
I mean, her Rolodex
was the size of, like, a tire.
1130
01:09:29,248 --> 01:09:31,046
And I'm sure even to this day,
1131
01:09:31,125 --> 01:09:34,004
the CIA would like to get
their hands on her Rolodex.
1132
01:09:34,087 --> 01:09:36,931
I don't know where that ended up,
but that was a treasure.
1133
01:09:37,006 --> 01:09:38,633
That should be in the Smithsonian.
1134
01:09:38,716 --> 01:09:40,218
No one was better than Lillian
1135
01:09:40,301 --> 01:09:42,724
at finding something
that you weren't allowed to see.
1136
01:09:42,804 --> 01:09:44,806
If you needed to see
the inside of the CIA-
1137
01:09:44,889 --> 01:09:46,732
which happened on one film-
1138
01:09:46,808 --> 01:09:50,608
Lillian got photographs of the inside
of the CIA from an army general
1139
01:09:50,687 --> 01:09:53,110
who had a friend
who was a doctor in Washington, DC,
1140
01:09:53,189 --> 01:09:56,568
who knew a doctor here in Leos Angeles
that Lillian knew.
1141
01:09:56,651 --> 01:10:00,576
Lillian once was doing research on a film
1142
01:10:00,655 --> 01:10:03,704
about the drug trade in Latin America.
1143
01:10:03,783 --> 01:10:08,835
And she was getting information
from a drug lord
1144
01:10:08,913 --> 01:10:14,886
who had retired and taken a new name
and was living off the radar.
1145
01:10:14,961 --> 01:10:18,386
She was also getting information
from a DEA guy
1146
01:10:18,464 --> 01:10:22,185
when they were busting a drug lab.
1147
01:10:22,260 --> 01:10:26,731
Well, one day the two guys were there
at the same time, sitting together,
1148
01:10:26,806 --> 01:10:31,232
and they didn't know that they were
on opposite ends of the game.
1149
01:10:31,310 --> 01:10:33,312
That was the kind of place it was.
1150
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:36,441
I am not one of those voices.
1151
01:10:36,524 --> 01:10:38,367
I know that. But you know why, Vic?
1152
01:10:38,443 --> 01:10:41,447
'Cause you got your head
up your culo, that's why.
1153
01:10:41,529 --> 01:10:43,782
This was for the movie Scarface,
1154
01:10:43,865 --> 01:10:47,790
and I had to find pictures
of cocaine laboratories
1155
01:10:47,869 --> 01:10:53,171
and huge estates with menageries and zoos
1156
01:10:53,249 --> 01:10:58,722
that drug lords were really in love with
in the '70s and '80s.
1157
01:11:00,381 --> 01:11:05,228
So I decided I'm going to ask my friends
on the wrong side of the law.
1158
01:11:05,303 --> 01:11:11,652
Through that wonderful circuit,
I found the name of a drug lord.
1159
01:11:11,726 --> 01:11:13,820
He was a nice Jewish boy.
1160
01:11:13,895 --> 01:11:19,368
And he says,
What about my sending you my private jet,
1161
01:11:19,442 --> 01:11:21,570
and I'll jet you down to Bolivia.
1162
01:11:21,652 --> 01:11:25,156
This was the first-
I knew he trusted me then.
1163
01:11:25,239 --> 01:11:29,494
He says, I still have a few things going
in South America.
1164
01:11:29,577 --> 01:11:31,250
I thought, Oh, a few things.
1165
01:11:31,329 --> 01:11:32,956
So I go home all excited.
1166
01:11:33,039 --> 01:11:36,885
And I say, Harold,
I'm going to Bolivia or Ecuador.
1167
01:11:36,959 --> 01:11:40,054
I'm going to South America.
I'm going to film these.
1168
01:11:40,129 --> 01:11:42,177
He says, What?
1169
01:11:42,256 --> 01:11:45,931
Did you forget that you're the mother
of my children?
1170
01:11:46,010 --> 01:11:49,435
Are you gonna go alone to South America
1171
01:11:49,514 --> 01:11:52,233
in a drug king's airplane?
1172
01:11:52,308 --> 01:11:54,106
And I said, Why not?
1173
01:11:54,185 --> 01:11:56,938
He said, I forbid you to go!
1174
01:11:58,022 --> 01:12:01,777
Oh, we got into a terrible fight.
1175
01:12:01,859 --> 01:12:03,281
Oh, boy.
1176
01:12:03,361 --> 01:12:06,581
But he said,
Don't you have a responsibility
1177
01:12:06,656 --> 01:12:08,829
to your children to stay alive?
1178
01:12:09,909 --> 01:12:12,207
I had no argument for that one.
1179
01:12:15,248 --> 01:12:19,845
Nobody was a more talented
film researcher than Lillian Michelson.
1180
01:12:19,919 --> 01:12:24,675
There are so many movies
that Lillian gave nuance
1181
01:12:24,757 --> 01:12:27,260
and texture and period to.
1182
01:12:28,344 --> 01:12:33,726
Lillian contributed so much
to so many of the great films we have seen
1183
01:12:33,808 --> 01:12:36,732
that I want to come up
with an extra little credit
1184
01:12:36,811 --> 01:12:40,281
they could just throw up on the screen,
Research by Lillian Michelson.
1185
01:12:40,356 --> 01:12:41,858
You never see it.
1186
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,653
She's been so helpful for so many people,
1187
01:12:44,735 --> 01:12:49,741
and she's been such a resource
for 30 years, that I know of,
1188
01:12:50,867 --> 01:12:56,169
that she should get an Oscar, you know,
the Thalberg Award or something.
1189
01:12:56,247 --> 01:12:59,251
Because she's really made
a contribution to this business.
1190
01:13:07,425 --> 01:13:09,769
I think our love has been mutual,
1191
01:13:09,844 --> 01:13:12,063
and that's why I'm in love.
1192
01:13:12,138 --> 01:13:15,517
I've been the aggressor all along.
1193
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:18,854
I know you had no interest in me at all,
1194
01:13:18,936 --> 01:13:22,031
and I went about trying to change that.
1195
01:13:23,608 --> 01:13:29,615
If there had been tension in our marriage,
it came from the fact that
1196
01:13:29,697 --> 01:13:33,122
Harold didn't entirely trust the idea
1197
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,374
that I truly and completely loved him.
1198
01:13:36,454 --> 01:13:41,460
Because we didn't start out
in the conventional way.
1199
01:13:41,542 --> 01:13:45,718
I think by this time
when we were at Zoetrope,
1200
01:13:45,796 --> 01:13:49,642
he really, really felt that I loved him.
1201
01:13:49,717 --> 01:13:55,144
And that was a very wonderful feeling,
1202
01:13:55,222 --> 01:13:58,897
that he finally believed
that I cared for him.
1203
01:13:58,976 --> 01:14:01,900
From the time I met them,
they were just simpatico.
1204
01:14:01,979 --> 01:14:04,528
He treated her with such respect.
1205
01:14:04,607 --> 01:14:08,032
Being in his position,
that also surprised me a little bit.
1206
01:14:08,110 --> 01:14:11,785
Storyboard artists,
it's an awkward position,
1207
01:14:11,864 --> 01:14:14,583
and Harold is one of the few
who's made the transition
1208
01:14:14,659 --> 01:14:16,661
into production design.
1209
01:14:16,744 --> 01:14:20,089
He was kind of bumped up
to be a production designer.
1210
01:14:31,842 --> 01:14:35,472
He had complete rapport
with Dalton Trumbo.
1211
01:14:36,472 --> 01:14:37,894
Harold used to sketch
1212
01:14:37,974 --> 01:14:40,648
while Dalton Trumbo
was in the bathtub all the time
1213
01:14:40,726 --> 01:14:42,524
because he had a bad back.
1214
01:14:42,603 --> 01:14:46,779
So he would have this typing thing set up
across his bathtub,
1215
01:14:46,857 --> 01:14:50,657
and Harold would sit
on the toilet and sketch.
1216
01:14:51,654 --> 01:14:55,284
And Harold would come back
from these days lit up,
1217
01:14:55,366 --> 01:14:59,621
just lit up that he was talking directly
with the director,
1218
01:14:59,704 --> 01:15:03,550
creating a movie
that was so close to his heart.
1219
01:15:04,208 --> 01:15:06,802
Harold Michelson
could see what you were doing,
1220
01:15:06,877 --> 01:15:09,926
and he knew,
without interfering him too much
1221
01:15:10,006 --> 01:15:14,011
and costing you any money,
how you could improve it...
1222
01:15:15,344 --> 01:15:17,142
how you could make it a little better.
1223
01:15:18,264 --> 01:15:20,187
That was the genius of Harold Michelson.
1224
01:15:20,266 --> 01:15:23,896
Let's make this a little better.
And he always did.
1225
01:15:30,234 --> 01:15:33,909
I was in Alabama
working on a picture when I got this call.
1226
01:15:33,988 --> 01:15:36,912
Everybody looked at me as though
I was an important person then.
1227
01:15:36,991 --> 01:15:39,870
I mean, Star Trek The Motion Picture
was really big.
1228
01:15:40,453 --> 01:15:45,459
When he was offered Star Trek,
Robert Wise wanted him very badly.
1229
01:15:45,541 --> 01:15:47,794
And Harold says,
I don't like science fiction,
1230
01:15:47,877 --> 01:15:50,426
all this make-believe up in space.
1231
01:15:50,504 --> 01:15:52,882
It's all real fake stuff.
1232
01:15:52,965 --> 01:15:54,638
I wasn't a Trekkie.
1233
01:15:54,717 --> 01:15:57,596
I hadn't seen hardly any of the series.
1234
01:15:57,678 --> 01:16:00,807
And I was a Trekkie.
I love science fiction.
1235
01:16:00,890 --> 01:16:03,814
I read Heinlein when-
I think I was eight years old.
1236
01:16:03,893 --> 01:16:06,191
But I did want him
to work on this picture,
1237
01:16:06,270 --> 01:16:10,525
because I thought
it would be really fantastic.
1238
01:16:10,608 --> 01:16:16,331
He could use his inventive mind
to build a universe out there.
1239
01:16:16,989 --> 01:16:20,038
Then I got the idea,
'cause he was always in the garage
1240
01:16:20,117 --> 01:16:24,293
fixing gadgets, making something,
building something.
1241
01:16:24,371 --> 01:16:28,547
And I thought, Harold,
this whole picture could be
1242
01:16:28,626 --> 01:16:30,674
you're inventing gadgets.
1243
01:16:30,753 --> 01:16:33,677
He says, Gadgets?
I'll be able to make gadgets?
1244
01:16:44,809 --> 01:16:48,404
I designed
a clear plastic, or Plexiglas, engine.
1245
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:51,107
It wasn't based on any scientific facts.
1246
01:16:51,190 --> 01:16:54,615
I designed the engine,
and they put this lighting in it.
1247
01:16:54,693 --> 01:16:58,618
And it had a long tube going back
towards the tail of the ship.
1248
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:01,493
I went ahead and made it
in forced perspective,
1249
01:17:01,575 --> 01:17:04,328
which means smaller and smaller
and smaller.
1250
01:17:04,411 --> 01:17:07,915
There was a ramp on the side
where we had a five-foot man,
1251
01:17:07,998 --> 01:17:10,251
four-foot and a young boy.
1252
01:17:10,334 --> 01:17:12,712
They had to make special costume for them.
1253
01:17:12,795 --> 01:17:14,763
And they were working on the engine.
1254
01:17:14,839 --> 01:17:17,888
But this was all fake.
This was all forced.
1255
01:17:17,967 --> 01:17:21,722
But he did have fun with the movie,
so I felt good about it.
1256
01:17:21,804 --> 01:17:26,105
And then he got his nomination,
so I really felt good about that.
1257
01:17:27,351 --> 01:17:29,353
The limousine comes up to your house,
1258
01:17:29,436 --> 01:17:32,690
and you're going down there with this guy,
this driver who loves you.
1259
01:17:33,774 --> 01:17:35,367
We went through the red carpet
1260
01:17:35,442 --> 01:17:39,163
along with all the stars and everything
and the people going crazy.
1261
01:17:42,741 --> 01:17:46,245
We got in there, and I thought to myself,
I hope it's not me.
1262
01:17:47,246 --> 01:17:51,592
I would be scared to death to go up there,
and what the hell am I going to say?
1263
01:17:51,667 --> 01:17:53,169
Then it was not me.
1264
01:17:54,170 --> 01:17:56,013
Which was a tremendous relief.
1265
01:17:57,339 --> 01:17:59,558
When we went to the hotel afterwards,
the same thing,
1266
01:17:59,633 --> 01:18:03,934
the red carpet and all
that Hollywood stuff with searchlights.
1267
01:18:04,013 --> 01:18:08,314
And a good meal, and we got
an awful lot of souvenirs.
1268
01:18:08,392 --> 01:18:11,362
After-shave lotion
and all these sort of things.
1269
01:18:11,437 --> 01:18:13,280
Everybody's gotta get in the act.
1270
01:18:14,732 --> 01:18:16,655
Funny, when somebody would say,
What have you done?
1271
01:18:16,734 --> 01:18:18,736
and you say,
I've done the Star Trek movie,
1272
01:18:18,819 --> 01:18:21,663
well, all of a sudden you're elevated,
so I use that.
1273
01:18:21,739 --> 01:18:24,993
Just like the other nomination
I got was Terms of Endearmenf.
1274
01:18:25,075 --> 01:18:27,954
Those are the things that get you jobs.
1275
01:18:28,037 --> 01:18:31,041
I worked on an awful lot of bombs
that I wouldn't even mention,
1276
01:18:31,123 --> 01:18:34,047
and I did some of my best work on them.
1277
01:18:34,126 --> 01:18:36,629
So, you know, it's political.
1278
01:18:36,712 --> 01:18:41,559
You just lay around and,
Oh, yes, Star Trek, I did that.
1279
01:18:45,262 --> 01:18:48,892
Harold, of course, was very warm.
Lillian is a very warm person.
1280
01:18:48,974 --> 01:18:52,023
They both nurtured
a number of people in their careers.
1281
01:18:52,102 --> 01:18:54,525
And certainly, Harold did,
as an art director,
1282
01:18:54,605 --> 01:19:00,908
encouraging young people that
he saw were capable and had a future.
1283
01:19:00,986 --> 01:19:03,865
When I was young
and the business seemed so hostile,
1284
01:19:03,948 --> 01:19:06,201
and we used to joke all the time about,
1285
01:19:06,283 --> 01:19:09,002
Best friend in Hollywood
is someone who stabs you in the face.
1286
01:19:09,620 --> 01:19:14,592
And, uh- And I met Bummy and Harold
1287
01:19:14,667 --> 01:19:18,672
and all those guys at Universal
after I had done E. 7'.
1288
01:19:18,754 --> 01:19:23,601
And there was a congeniality
and a real openness.
1289
01:19:24,260 --> 01:19:26,558
And especially Harold.
He had such a loving heart.
1290
01:19:26,637 --> 01:19:29,186
He was a really warm person,
1291
01:19:29,265 --> 01:19:34,396
and whatever he had, whatever he'd done,
he was very, very open to sharing.
1292
01:19:34,979 --> 01:19:37,949
If there was a technique that he could
share with you, he would do it.
1293
01:19:38,023 --> 01:19:40,993
Then I'll get this one... here.
1294
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:46,119
That's the end of the wall here.
1295
01:19:46,198 --> 01:19:51,295
What Harold represented to me was
the entree into the art form of cinema.
1296
01:19:51,370 --> 01:19:54,749
And the entrée point was Harold Michelson
and his wife Lillian,
1297
01:19:54,832 --> 01:19:59,463
just as though you were
the most welcomed person in the world.
1298
01:19:59,545 --> 01:20:02,799
And what had I done? I just had walked in.
1299
01:20:03,674 --> 01:20:07,599
Now, to me, I would hope
that I could be that gracious
1300
01:20:07,678 --> 01:20:09,897
with people that walk into my life.
1301
01:20:09,972 --> 01:20:12,725
Now, maybe they said,
Hmm, maybe there's something there.
1302
01:20:12,808 --> 01:20:15,652
That kid's gonna actually
have some stick-to-it-ness.
1303
01:20:15,728 --> 01:20:17,651
But I'll tell you, I didn't know that.
1304
01:20:17,730 --> 01:20:19,653
So whatever they knew,
1305
01:20:19,732 --> 01:20:23,032
they made me feel like
they knew something that was-
1306
01:20:23,110 --> 01:20:25,784
You know, Lincoln says,
The better angels?
1307
01:20:25,863 --> 01:20:27,865
They saw my better angels.
1308
01:20:28,657 --> 01:20:30,500
And they made me see them.
1309
01:20:33,412 --> 01:20:34,834
Good evening again, everyone.
1310
01:20:34,913 --> 01:20:37,792
A melodrama is currently
playing itself out in Hollywood
1311
01:20:37,875 --> 01:20:41,596
that for sheer emotionalism
rivals anything put on film.
1312
01:20:41,670 --> 01:20:45,425
The embattled figure in this drama
is director Francis Coppola,
1313
01:20:45,507 --> 01:20:47,009
who once again finds himself
1314
01:20:47,092 --> 01:20:50,187
waging a war
to keep his dream financially afloat.
1315
01:20:50,262 --> 01:20:52,856
Of course, when he lost the studio,
1316
01:20:52,931 --> 01:20:57,027
Lillian lost her home for the library
and had to move again.
1317
01:20:57,102 --> 01:21:00,777
It was a very sad time at that point,
'cause we didn't know where she would go.
1318
01:21:00,856 --> 01:21:04,906
I was really desperate because,
again, I had a deadline.
1319
01:21:04,985 --> 01:21:07,659
And I had to keep my library together
1320
01:21:07,738 --> 01:21:11,208
because by this time
it was my fourth child.
1321
01:21:15,079 --> 01:21:20,176
I entreated Earl Lestz,
who was the Paramount studio manager,
1322
01:21:20,250 --> 01:21:24,130
and he said,
No, why would I give you any space free?
1323
01:21:24,213 --> 01:21:28,514
You have to pay rent. Don't you know
how the outside world works?
1324
01:21:28,592 --> 01:21:31,516
Back I go a second time. Refused.
1325
01:21:31,595 --> 01:21:33,563
Oh, was I desperate.
1326
01:21:33,639 --> 01:21:37,735
So I went a third time and I said,
Please think about this.
1327
01:21:37,810 --> 01:21:40,654
This is a service for your whole studio.
1328
01:21:40,729 --> 01:21:43,232
And he said, You just wore me down.
1329
01:21:43,315 --> 01:21:45,784
Okay, you can have this cellar.
1330
01:21:45,859 --> 01:21:50,330
I couldn't believe it.
And who comes driving up in a limousine?
1331
01:21:50,406 --> 01:21:51,999
Ha, a limousine.
1332
01:21:52,074 --> 01:21:57,046
My husband steps out of this limousine
with a chauffeur, and he says,
1333
01:21:57,121 --> 01:21:59,294
What are you doing here at Paramount?
1334
01:21:59,373 --> 01:22:02,422
I said, I just got some space here!
1335
01:22:02,501 --> 01:22:04,219
He says, I don't believe it!
1336
01:22:04,294 --> 01:22:09,050
And we started dancing around
in the middle of the studio street.
1337
01:22:10,259 --> 01:22:13,604
So that's how I started at Paramount,
1338
01:22:13,679 --> 01:22:16,478
and I stayed there nine and a half years.
1339
01:22:21,145 --> 01:22:24,900
Somebody came from DreamWorks,
Sandy Rabins,
1340
01:22:24,982 --> 01:22:28,202
and she said,
Would you like to join DreamWorks?
1341
01:22:28,277 --> 01:22:32,657
And I said, DreamWorks?
What's DreamWorks?
1342
01:22:32,739 --> 01:22:35,413
And she said, um,
1343
01:22:35,492 --> 01:22:39,338
Spielberg and Katzenberg and, uh, Geffen
1344
01:22:39,413 --> 01:22:43,793
have started a studio,
and they want you to join them.
1345
01:22:43,876 --> 01:22:47,096
Just that minute, Danny DeVito called.
1346
01:22:47,171 --> 01:22:50,050
And he said, How's Harold feeling?
1347
01:22:50,132 --> 01:22:51,600
I said, Much better.
1348
01:22:51,675 --> 01:22:54,519
And I said, Danny, you wouldn't believe
who just called me.
1349
01:22:54,595 --> 01:22:58,896
And I told him this whole story,
and he starts to laugh.
1350
01:22:58,974 --> 01:23:01,727
And I said, Well, what's so funny?
1351
01:23:01,810 --> 01:23:05,155
And he said, I think everybody
in our industry
1352
01:23:05,230 --> 01:23:10,828
has got their resume on those guys' desks,
and they called you?
1353
01:23:11,528 --> 01:23:13,121
And I- Yeah.
1354
01:23:13,197 --> 01:23:15,916
And he said, Don't sign anything,
1355
01:23:15,991 --> 01:23:19,791
and I'm gonna send
my lawyer over to talk to you.
1356
01:23:19,870 --> 01:23:21,087
Is that okay?
1357
01:23:21,163 --> 01:23:22,790
And the lawyer came,
1358
01:23:22,873 --> 01:23:26,423
and he's in his gorgeous,
Italian expensive suit,
1359
01:23:26,502 --> 01:23:29,631
and he's looking around
with such distaste.
1360
01:23:29,713 --> 01:23:34,640
And he says, Listen, why don't you
sell this to DreamWorks,
1361
01:23:34,718 --> 01:23:38,768
and then you go get this money
and you go lie on a beach somewhere?
1362
01:23:38,847 --> 01:23:40,975
And I said, I don't want to do that.
1363
01:23:41,058 --> 01:23:42,856
And he says, Look at this.
1364
01:23:42,935 --> 01:23:45,688
You want to do this
for the rest of your life?
1365
01:23:45,771 --> 01:23:48,365
And I said, Yeah.
1366
01:23:48,440 --> 01:23:52,161
And he says,
What do you want out of your life?
1367
01:23:54,279 --> 01:23:56,873
And I said, I want three things.
1368
01:23:57,449 --> 01:24:02,797
I want my husband to be well,
I want my children to be happy,
1369
01:24:02,871 --> 01:24:07,047
and I want to be able to buy panty hose
that don't run.
1370
01:24:09,753 --> 01:24:12,848
When she got the offer
to move to DreamWorks,
1371
01:24:12,923 --> 01:24:16,723
it was like hitting the lottery for her.
1372
01:24:16,802 --> 01:24:19,521
She won the lottery
when she got that space.
1373
01:24:23,642 --> 01:24:26,862
We used to have screenings
at DreamWorks every Monday.
1374
01:24:26,937 --> 01:24:29,611
They decided to do the favorite movie.
1375
01:24:29,690 --> 01:24:31,283
And Jeffrey Katzenberg,
1376
01:24:31,358 --> 01:24:34,157
his favorite movie was West Side Story.
1377
01:24:34,236 --> 01:24:37,991
And here we go, Harold,
with his original of West Side Story,
1378
01:24:38,073 --> 01:24:40,496
presented it just before the movie.
1379
01:24:40,576 --> 01:24:44,831
Harold was always
with his big gigantic magnifier glass
1380
01:24:44,913 --> 01:24:47,086
looking at this stuff.
1381
01:24:47,165 --> 01:24:48,758
He was retired at the time,
1382
01:24:48,834 --> 01:24:52,213
but he kept having all those people
coming to see him.
1383
01:24:52,296 --> 01:24:55,470
And they were celebrities at DreamWorks.
Basically everybody loved them.
1384
01:24:55,549 --> 01:24:57,847
They got to the point
where they were this center
1385
01:24:57,926 --> 01:25:00,395
of knowledge and friendship and family.
1386
01:25:00,470 --> 01:25:02,393
They treated everybody like their kids,
1387
01:25:02,472 --> 01:25:04,474
and everybody felt like
they were their kids.
1388
01:25:07,561 --> 01:25:09,563
So the group that was doing Shrek,
1389
01:25:09,646 --> 01:25:13,446
they decided the king and queen
ought to be Harold and Lillian.
1390
01:25:21,325 --> 01:25:25,375
I got all this other stuff
addressing envelopes, you see?
1391
01:25:25,454 --> 01:25:28,458
- I got this one.
- Oh, pretty. That's very nice.
1392
01:25:29,082 --> 01:25:31,301
At DreamWorks, Harold wasn't well,
1393
01:25:31,376 --> 01:25:33,925
and, of course,
I had nobody to leave him with.
1394
01:25:34,004 --> 01:25:36,928
So I would take him to work with me,
1395
01:25:37,007 --> 01:25:41,353
and he would draw and putter
and do stuff for Danny DeVito.
1396
01:25:41,428 --> 01:25:43,806
The thing about it is Harold's my friend.
1397
01:25:43,889 --> 01:25:46,893
He's always been,
like, from the time we started.
1398
01:25:46,975 --> 01:25:49,819
We had so much in common
in talking about visuals
1399
01:25:49,895 --> 01:25:52,694
and movies
and this, that and the other thing.
1400
01:25:52,773 --> 01:25:55,526
They were laughing all the time.
That's all I remember.
1401
01:25:55,609 --> 01:25:59,534
'Cause I would be at the other end
of the warehouse, stuck in my corner.
1402
01:25:59,613 --> 01:26:03,538
And Harold would be in my office
with Danny,
1403
01:26:03,617 --> 01:26:09,124
and I just hear all this chortling
and galumphing and carrying on.
1404
01:26:09,206 --> 01:26:10,708
We also loved to eat.
1405
01:26:10,791 --> 01:26:12,384
Even though- Don't tell Lillian.
1406
01:26:12,459 --> 01:26:17,181
We would just eat. You gotta have
a big corned beef sandwich or something.
1407
01:26:17,255 --> 01:26:21,852
Basically what he does is,
and what he always did for me,
1408
01:26:21,927 --> 01:26:27,275
was he got you to think about it
in a kind of a visual way.
1409
01:26:28,100 --> 01:26:30,979
That's the fantastic thing about Harold.
1410
01:26:31,061 --> 01:26:32,529
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
1411
01:26:32,604 --> 01:26:36,029
That's what I did with Harold, see?
1412
01:26:36,692 --> 01:26:39,161
- That's the value of it.
- Yeah.
1413
01:26:39,236 --> 01:26:42,706
Besides being a great guy. You know?
1414
01:26:43,573 --> 01:26:47,919
He was a- you know, a really good friend.
1415
01:26:49,913 --> 01:26:51,586
Oh, boy.
1416
01:26:51,665 --> 01:26:53,667
Why are you smiling?
1417
01:26:53,750 --> 01:26:57,175
'Cause he was going through
a really, really bad time
1418
01:26:57,254 --> 01:27:02,636
with visits to various doctors
I dug up out of nowhere
1419
01:27:02,718 --> 01:27:05,312
I thought would be able to help him and...
1420
01:27:06,304 --> 01:27:08,398
they were charlatans and...
1421
01:27:09,391 --> 01:27:11,393
et cetera, et cetera.
1422
01:27:17,274 --> 01:27:21,700
The doctor persuaded me to put Harold
in the Motion Picture home,
1423
01:27:21,778 --> 01:27:24,998
because they said
I couldn't lift him anymore.
1424
01:27:26,116 --> 01:27:31,338
And so he was put
in the Motion Picture home
1425
01:27:31,413 --> 01:27:35,759
in the fall of 2006,
1426
01:27:35,834 --> 01:27:39,759
and he was here for a few months,
1427
01:27:39,838 --> 01:27:43,433
and he died on March 1, 2007.
1428
01:27:44,801 --> 01:27:50,899
And the final months
were, urn, unspeakably tragic.
1429
01:28:33,099 --> 01:28:36,854
Lillian never seemed young or old.
She was just Lillian.
1430
01:28:36,937 --> 01:28:39,611
And she remains that way.
1431
01:28:39,689 --> 01:28:42,863
She truly is kind of a force of nature.
1432
01:28:45,195 --> 01:28:48,950
Research has been
a great comfort to me in my own life.
1433
01:28:49,032 --> 01:28:52,332
How many people are as fortunate as I am?
1434
01:28:52,410 --> 01:28:55,414
I get to float among the centuries.
1435
01:28:55,497 --> 01:29:00,003
I dip into a time machine every day.
They're all in my books.
1436
01:29:02,003 --> 01:29:05,098
I've been fortunate enough, with research,
1437
01:29:05,173 --> 01:29:10,976
to gain a certain perspective
on my tiny little life
1438
01:29:11,054 --> 01:29:15,230
and other tiny little lives,
and things don't bother you so much.
1439
01:29:15,308 --> 01:29:19,313
If they do, you just open another book
and go into your time machine.
1440
01:29:19,396 --> 01:29:20,898
I can pick anything.
1441
01:29:25,735 --> 01:29:28,659
When Harold first came out to California
1442
01:29:28,738 --> 01:29:32,663
and was setting up
our foundation for our life,
1443
01:29:33,243 --> 01:29:37,293
when he said, Come on out.
I have an apartment for you-
1444
01:29:39,249 --> 01:29:43,345
I had a few days on the train from Miami
1445
01:29:43,420 --> 01:29:45,843
to think about what I was getting into.
1446
01:29:50,260 --> 01:29:52,604
And I'm thinking, What am I doing?
1447
01:29:52,679 --> 01:29:56,855
I'm going to an unknown state,
a man I don't know,
1448
01:29:56,933 --> 01:29:58,810
I just know his sister.
1449
01:29:59,811 --> 01:30:02,189
Is this a reason to get married?
1450
01:30:02,272 --> 01:30:04,650
Is this a reason to leave everything?
1451
01:30:05,859 --> 01:30:08,328
I had two days and two nights
of not sleeping,
1452
01:30:08,403 --> 01:30:10,497
just sitting and wondering.
1453
01:30:12,198 --> 01:30:16,829
I never felt that I was worthy
of all this love,
1454
01:30:16,912 --> 01:30:19,085
so that's the crux of it.
1455
01:30:19,164 --> 01:30:20,461
Why?
1456
01:30:20,540 --> 01:30:22,338
I guess because I was an orphan
1457
01:30:22,417 --> 01:30:26,467
and not the center of the universe
from a very early age
1458
01:30:26,546 --> 01:30:31,803
and, uh, had to fight... everything.
1459
01:30:31,885 --> 01:30:36,812
All my life's circumstances
had to be fought against
1460
01:30:36,890 --> 01:30:40,770
and resisted
and made to fit me as a person.
1461
01:30:40,852 --> 01:30:42,900
So I never felt that I was really worthy
1462
01:30:42,979 --> 01:30:47,735
of anybody's sustained
and consistent love.
1463
01:30:47,817 --> 01:30:53,324
I was thrilled by it, but secretly
I never thought I deserved it.
1464
01:30:53,406 --> 01:30:55,750
That's why I loved the poems so much.
1465
01:30:56,910 --> 01:30:59,459
Oh, another year, and he still loves me.
1466
01:31:03,667 --> 01:31:06,136
When I get to the train station,
1467
01:31:06,211 --> 01:31:10,341
this stranger comes to me and says,
Lillian?
1468
01:31:11,675 --> 01:31:13,769
I even forgot what he looked like!
1469
01:31:15,387 --> 01:31:19,358
I couldn't even really like him
if I don't remember what he looks like.
1470
01:31:19,933 --> 01:31:25,281
And he kind of gives me a shy little hug,
and we're so shy with each other.
1471
01:31:25,355 --> 01:31:27,107
And he says, I got this apartment.
1472
01:31:27,190 --> 01:31:30,785
You can stay there,
and I'm staying with my friend.
1473
01:31:31,778 --> 01:31:33,906
And, of course, he was so honorable.
1474
01:31:33,989 --> 01:31:37,584
He stayed with a friend
until we were truly married.
1475
01:31:52,841 --> 01:31:56,766
The challenges
that one has to overcome, I think,
1476
01:31:56,845 --> 01:31:59,689
is making the other person feel
1477
01:31:59,764 --> 01:32:05,897
that you are really vital
to the partner's life in every sense
1478
01:32:05,979 --> 01:32:08,778
and that there's no enemy there.
1479
01:32:08,857 --> 01:32:11,656
Even if you fight, there's no enemy there.
1480
01:32:12,777 --> 01:32:14,404
We were a team.
125285