Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,400
This programme
contains strong language
2
00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:13,520
Genesis. Genesis.
Genesis. Genesis...
3
00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:19,360
CHANTING CONTINUES
4
00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,320
Turn It On Again
5
00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,440
Yeah, forget about all this
other bullshit.
6
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:37,840
We are entertaining people,
7
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,520
and if they're entertained
we've done our job properly!
8
00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,160
Invisible Touch
9
00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:50,880
No, I love this.
It's great having hits.
10
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,680
Jesus He Knows Me
11
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,840
In those days there were no real
rules. I think
12
00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:00,800
we were just trying to be
a bit different,
13
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,200
because the canvas
in those days in the '60s
14
00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:04,880
and the '70s was pretty blank.
15
00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,280
The Knife
16
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,240
The basic feel was radically
different
17
00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:16,680
than anything I'd ever done.
18
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,680
Very British, actually!
19
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,560
Aye, aye, aye, ah!
20
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,800
It's not country, it's not rock,
it's not jazz, you know,
21
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,360
it's Genesis.
22
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,320
A very competitive band,
no doubt about that. Very gifted,
23
00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:39,400
but with those gifts,
you know, there's a certain price.
24
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,320
I Can't Dance
25
00:01:41,320 --> 00:01:44,480
It was always, you know,
beating each other into submission.
26
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:47,720
We pulled rank!
27
00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,240
Peter and I used to fight a lot.
Very close friends but, you know,
28
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,960
used to argue about silly
little things.
29
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,160
I Know What I Like
30
00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,800
No, he was a really awkward bastard!
31
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,600
But we loved each other too,
32
00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,840
you know, there was a real bond.
33
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,120
They were at the forefront of what
we now think of as prog rock.
34
00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,240
Then in the '80s,
they were a massive
35
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,800
rock/pop band on both
sides of the Atlantic.
36
00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,680
That's All
37
00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:29,160
Genesis were never cool, and Genesis
are proof that, ultimately,
38
00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:30,880
in rock music brains win out.
39
00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,480
Sledgehammer by Peter Gabriel
40
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,760
There's something in the DNA of that
group that's still connected,
41
00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,080
even though they were
in different places.
42
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,640
In The Air Tonight
by Phil Collins
43
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,760
Whenever, sort of, Spinal Tap
is on or something and you see these
44
00:02:54,760 --> 00:03:00,360
moments you think, "I've been in a
band like that! That's Genesis".
45
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:01,640
No, they don't think so.
46
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,960
We had something that none of us
could do on our own.
47
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,560
A Change Is Gonna Come
by Otis Redding
48
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,880
I was at school, and I remember
exactly which room I was in,
49
00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,120
and I heard this thing coming
out of the radio, and phrew.
50
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,800
Otis Reading was my hero at that
time, I think.
51
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:53,520
It felt very free,
it was sort of hot, sexy, alive,
52
00:03:53,520 --> 00:04:00,200
and it had obviously come
out of blues and pain and suffering.
53
00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,120
The rigours of that school would have
given them something to kick against.
54
00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,080
There was a revolutionary impulse
within them, which is that -
55
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:14,400
despite the constraints of that,
56
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,800
you know, very traditional public
school education -
57
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,040
they thought, "We
want to make a living out of music."
58
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,160
It was music that got them
through their day.
59
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,920
That's where Genesis developed this
desire to create something
60
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,440
that was elaborate and big and grand
61
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,840
and sprawling, that kind of pushed
those rigours out of their life.
62
00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:32,880
The demo session was Mike
and I saying, "Tony will you come
63
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,080
"and help us with the keyboards?"
And he said, "Yeah, I'll do it
64
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,560
"if my mate Peter Gabriel can
come along and sing one song."
65
00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,760
It was called She Is Beautiful
to start with.
66
00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,200
I'm not sure what it ended up as.
It was a lovely song.
67
00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,240
So we hustled our way into
their session.
68
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,600
We'd done these demos and it was
OC's day, Old Carthusian day,
69
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,480
Jonathan King was spotted there.
70
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,680
I was a successful pop star,
71
00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,960
the first act on the London
Top Of The Pops show.
72
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,440
And, of course, I went back to
Charterhouse in glory,
73
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,520
in my little Austin-Healey Sprite.
74
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,280
And one of the kids at Charterhouse
rushed up to me
75
00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:16,360
with a grubby cassette tape,
that I still have to this day,
76
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,680
and said, "Oh, this is the school
group, listen to it."
77
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,840
The lead singer had THE most
wonderful voice, I thought.
78
00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:36,280
So I got in touch with them
and said,
79
00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:39,040
"Look, I really like the sound of
you, I'd like to produce you."
80
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:40,920
And they said, "Oh, yes, please".
81
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,760
I gave them the name Genesis
because that, to me,
82
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,600
was the start of my production
career.
83
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,280
We did an album -
From Genesis To Revelation
84
00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:54,960
which was just bought by us
and our friends.
85
00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,800
And, you know, and then pretty much
that looked like it, and he,
86
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,840
sort of, was losing interest and
everything, which was fair enough.
87
00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:03,640
I'm not very good with really good
creative artists.
88
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,320
I'm actually better with people
just doing as I say,
89
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,560
because it's my work of art that
I want to do.
90
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,080
My parents had a cottage near
Dorking in Surrey, quite remote.
91
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,680
They let us use it.
92
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,520
You know, it was very turbulent.
93
00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,160
They're very strong characters,
you know, and we were kind of -
94
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,440
slightly... t was a bit of a
pressure cooker situation.
95
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,840
The guys never saw their girlfriends
half the time, it was
96
00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:30,400
positively draconian.
97
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,920
But we were too serious.
We never went for walks.
98
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,600
We weren't the sort of group to
go down the pub and have pints
99
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,520
and, you know, relax.
100
00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,760
Ant was also, probably, the best
musician at the time.
101
00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,920
He was the only one who could
actually do something
102
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,240
with his instrument.
103
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,440
And he kind of brought me on really,
he taught me some chords.
104
00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,760
Kind of early days in the writing
sessions
105
00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,320
with Ant it was two guitars.
106
00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,360
Ant and myself playing guitars,
Tony keyboards
107
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,120
and Pete a bit of keyboards, you
know, but more the vocals really.
108
00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,720
Sneaking away from school to come to
these hippie events,
109
00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,920
to then be offered to perform in an
Atomic Sunrise Festival, it sounded,
110
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,960
you know,
like a thing we couldn't say no to.
111
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,000
The Roundhouse was somewhere where,
you know,
112
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,280
concerts were not just concerts,
they were happenings, you know,
113
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,920
and it would be somewhere you'd go
to commune with kindred spirits.
114
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,960
People would sit
and happily close their eyes
115
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,080
and listen to songs that
lasted 25 minutes.
116
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,720
And Genesis just at that time
fitted right in there.
117
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,880
I remember finding it all starting
to get terribly tense,
118
00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,080
and I used to be very frightened.
119
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,120
The Atomic Sunrise Festival
I remember mainly for there
120
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,720
being more people on stage than
there were in the audience.
121
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:19,760
Tony and I, particularly Tony, were
both Bowie fans from very early on.
122
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,320
Bowie's band were very
theatrical at the time
123
00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,360
and it wasn't sort of
Ziggy-type costumes,
124
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:37,240
it was more sort of raiding
the theatre costume department.
125
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,080
Then of course came the first
official,
126
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,720
if you like, Genesis album,
with Trespass.
127
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,800
Where they were starting to
get their proper sound together.
128
00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,000
It's not quite there,
129
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,840
but you can hear the seeds of what
they became within it.
130
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:54,680
And it has, famously, the track
The Knife.
131
00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,680
And I looked at the guitar
and I thought,
132
00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:09,320
"I haven't got a clue,
not a clue what comes next."
133
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,560
And then I saw myself playing this
thing, but it was really scary.
134
00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:16,640
I eventually just sort of went
kerblonk really.
135
00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,120
I tried fighting through it,
but I didn't make it.
136
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,600
Well, Anthony Phillips was
a fantastic musician,
137
00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,000
he was very much part of
the original collective.
138
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,880
And when he left, it could have very
easily have been the end of Genesis.
139
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,120
We wouldn't be having this
discussion,
140
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,240
because they did very seriously
consider calling it a day.
141
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,000
That was a very,
very significant loss.
142
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,000
I mean Ant leaving was far
143
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,480
and away the most significant
moment in Genesis's history.
144
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:45,880
People don't quite realise
145
00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,760
how important a character he was.
146
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,560
I would say he was...
147
00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:53,600
very much the driving force.
148
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,040
I felt it was the right thing to do.
149
00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,680
If I hadn't left they may never
have got Phil Collins.
150
00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:00,200
So, I mean...
151
00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:04,560
All I wanted to do was to be
able to play the drums
152
00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:06,520
and make enough money to live.
153
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,160
It wouldn't be stardom or anything.
154
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,280
I was a professional musician
in a semi-professional band.
155
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,160
The band would have day jobs
and, you know, and we'd all meet up,
156
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,200
but I was the one that was actually
existing on whatever we earned.
157
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,920
Phil comes along, Dad's in insurance,
158
00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,480
he's a Hounslow boy, a good
West London boy, but he does bring
159
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,960
some creativity with him
because Phil's mother, June,
160
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,400
also worked with Barbara Speake
at the Barbara Speake Stage School.
161
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,200
The first thing he did was bring
this incredibly direct
162
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,760
and brilliant musical drumming.
163
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,080
He can play anything.
164
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,760
He can play your soul music,
your prog music, your jazz music,
165
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,440
your fusion. He can play it.
166
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:48,360
And he brought that incredible
confidence, I think, to their sound.
167
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,480
You know, I was a stage-school kid,
168
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,560
I was from a very different
background.
169
00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:55,960
I'd been playing music all my life,
170
00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:01,720
whereas music, to them...
was...a restricted subject.
171
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,200
You know, I mean, you weren't
supposed to play
172
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,600
guitar at Charterhouse.
173
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,800
And they were kind of very precious,
174
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,040
you know, it really mattered.
175
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,440
You know, "You're playing what
kind of A chord?
176
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,120
"No, no, that's not the best
inversion of the A."
177
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,160
You know, I mean, things like that.
178
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,440
It was just unbelievable.
The difference?
179
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,280
I never ever, ever could have
imagined
180
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:29,880
in a million years the difference
181
00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:31,920
a drummer could make.
182
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,400
Oh, my God, he was...
It was unbelievable.
183
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,280
He transformed the music.
184
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,080
It was very apparent to us that he
was a really good drummer,
185
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,400
you know, had a fantastic
sense of rhythm and stuff,
186
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,440
which... We were all a bit stiff,
you know?
187
00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:57,720
He understood and felt things
and, you know,
188
00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,560
it was thank God for me that
I can talk to someone who actually
189
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:03,720
knows the realities of life.
190
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,680
And he had a lightness
as a personality too.
191
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:10,320
He could joke and stuff
and everything, you know,
192
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,200
much better than...
We were very intense.
193
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,600
It was very incestuous.
194
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,640
You know, we did nothing but this
so, obviously, you know,
195
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,480
people got irritated with each
other.
196
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,080
I remember storming out of...
when we were rehearsing one place,
197
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,880
first time with Phil.
198
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,440
You know, it just must have been
difficult for him I think.
199
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:32,480
I was amazed he stayed.
200
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:37,640
All this friction or
sort of tension that was under...
201
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,360
you know, kind of under wraps
occasionally would boil over
202
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,600
and someone would get up
and walk out.
203
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,320
And I'd..."Did I miss something,
what happened?" You know?
204
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:48,920
LAUGHTER
205
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,200
And it would be like...
.."Fucking..."
206
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,560
LAUGHTER
207
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:53,960
Off into the distance.
208
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,840
Because Phil like felt
a professional who'd played with
209
00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,480
other musicians and was just getting
on with the work, whereas we had all
210
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:05,360
these intense, sort of, dysfunctional
family arguments going on.
211
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,640
They discussed these things under
a sort of stifling cloak
212
00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,080
of British reserve, which is very
typical of the public schoolboy.
213
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,880
And I imagine that the
workings of that band were quite
214
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,520
mystifying to Collins.
215
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,800
But I imagine he was
something of a breath of fresh air.
216
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,640
It was always, you know,
beating each other into submission.
217
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,680
But that was fun, I mean, I was
in a band, I was in a thinking band.
218
00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:29,760
You know, as far as I was concerned
it made a big change from what
219
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,600
I'd, kind of, been playing.
220
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:36,040
And that was the first time that it
felt like there was some chance
221
00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,720
of this combo gelling and delivering
something with a bit of punch.
222
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,280
Things that had seemed really hard
work, you know, like pushing
223
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,400
this big thing up a hill, suddenly
it was downhill and we could smile.
224
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,120
When Steve Hackett joined it was
another kind of big
225
00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,760
moment in the Genesis story.
An absolutely stunning musician.
226
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,040
He could make a guitar
sound like any instrument.
227
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,360
It was really a little bit like
being thrown in at the deep end.
228
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:12,680
I mean, I'd really been a legend
in my own bedroom at that point.
229
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:16,520
Yes, I could play screaming solos
very, very quietly on this little
230
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,720
radio that served as an amp, and
then suddenly to work with a band.
231
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,200
And we all met him at Tony's flat.
232
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,840
And he was very dark,
233
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,880
but he always gave the impression
of being very serious, you know,
234
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,760
with his black glasses, black hair.
235
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,200
I sat down and played three
different styles of things
236
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,840
to them, and I remember Pete
famously saying,
237
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,680
"I think we can use the first style,
I'm not sure about the other two."
238
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:47,800
We liked his approach.
239
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,800
He was a very accomplished guitarist
without wanting to be
240
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,920
a sort of flash guitarist at all,
you know?
241
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,840
And he was interested in, sort of,
combinations and all the rest of it.
242
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,040
Literally, and then there were five,
243
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,960
and that really was the classic
band.
244
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,520
And Steve just had -
he was just perfect.
245
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,920
Nursery Cryme was when they began
to get a few sniffs at what
246
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,520
they were doing.
247
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,560
It went into - you know,
scraped into the Top 40,
248
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,160
and you can hear the sound
coalescing, coming together there.
249
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,960
But at the time, of course,
it was called progressive rock.
250
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,320
Involved no limits, basically, no
barriers.
251
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:40,960
So they were testing the barriers,
252
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,880
learning how far they could push
this and realising that they
253
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,160
could actually push it a lot further
than 4x4 beach music.
254
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,920
Prog rock to... If you were trying
to explain it to an alien who'd
255
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,760
just landed on Earth - I'd say songs
that last 20-minutes plus,
256
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,000
have mythical allegories
and strange creatures in them,
257
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,480
perhaps, you know, uniforms in the
case of Genesis and standing stones.
258
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,040
There's something very, very
English about Genesis's music that,
259
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,800
to me,
it's an England beyond psychedelia.
260
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,840
The guys were terrible at tuning
the 12 strings
261
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,480
and they would take, sometimes,
five minutes between songs.
262
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,560
Everyone looks at the singer...
263
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,600
.."Entertain us," you know?
264
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:44,680
So that's what I realised
I had to start doing.
265
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,400
He's not particularly at ease
with an audience
266
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,200
until he became someone else,
you know?
267
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,680
The first time he ever wore
a costume was, obviously,
268
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,320
the infamous time in Dublin
in the boxing ring.
269
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,760
He hadn't told us about it,
which was just as well
270
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,800
because we'd never have let him
do it.
271
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,520
There's quite a long instrumental
passage in the middle
272
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,720
and Peter went off.
273
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,600
He certainly didn't tell Tony Banks
because I think, rightly,
274
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,520
he thought that Tony would veto it.
275
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,880
I was always afraid that these guys,
you know,
276
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,960
would start arguing about any
of the visual costume bit that
277
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,640
I was trying to do,
and so I would bring the stuff in.
278
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,240
I'd smuggle it in.
279
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,280
I'd smuggle it in as
late as possible,
280
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,320
when they were so preoccupied with
getting everything else
281
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,800
sorted, that I could sort of get away
with whatever shit was in my head!
282
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,520
Peter's impulse to
dress up in these elaborate clothes
283
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,560
and his wife's dress with
a fox's head.
284
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:52,800
I mean for him
285
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,240
it was shyness, as I understand.
286
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,640
I mean, he was a beautiful young
man,
287
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:02,040
but he was not sexually confident
in the stagey way like Jagger was.
288
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,160
And he wasn't even as sort
of committed to the
289
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,880
personas as Bowie was at that point.
290
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,520
So the likes of Bowie were doing it,
291
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,080
the likes of Mark Bolan, you know,
the wearing of make-up,
292
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,080
all that kind of stuff which didn't
go down well across the Atlantic.
293
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,360
Americans - "What are
these Brits doing in frocks?"
294
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:19,000
You know - "We don't want any of
that.
295
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,680
"We want rock'n'roll. Rock'n'roll!"
296
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,240
The Musical Box
297
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:34,040
It was dark,
it was a sort of dark energy,
298
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,960
and it was scary to people
and shocking.
299
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,720
You know, he didn't run it
via the committee.
300
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,360
He bullishly went ahead and did it.
301
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:46,000
And if he hadn't, I suspect that
Genesis perhaps would not
302
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,440
have gotten as far so quickly.
303
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,960
CHEERING
304
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,880
It brought the house down.
305
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,760
It put a nought on the end
of our earnings.
306
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,160
The costumes at that point
307
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,720
were not intrusive.
308
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,760
I mean, it kind of just seemed to be
part of what Genesis were,
309
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,080
and I was all for it.
310
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,440
I am the voice of Britain
before the Daily Express.
311
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,080
My name is Britannia.
312
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,080
Foxtrot, I think, is where most
Genesis fans agree that
313
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:42,440
that's where they really broke the
roof and went to another dimension.
314
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,720
It's one of those things where
you get popular
315
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,240
and then by the time, you know, you
never really get it,
316
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,600
you're sort of, "Oh, my God,
there's all that."
317
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,680
And you get to that level and think,
"Oh, my God, there's all that."
318
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,920
So, we didn't realise until we came
to New York, probably, just how
319
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,960
VAST America was
and how much there was to do.
320
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,680
American rock in the '70s was very,
very American,
321
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,440
and the British rock that they liked
was working with American DNA,
322
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,760
so they liked The Stones
because it was blues.
323
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,600
So you had your, you know, your
Bob Seger and your Lynyrd Skynyrd
324
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,360
and then you had your art rock,
your Iggy and Stooges
325
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:29,200
and Velvet Underground.
326
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,000
And, in a way,
it was a different language.
327
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:37,120
It was quite a challenge, you know,
we were not downhearted by this.
328
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:39,160
You know, we may be big over here,
329
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,160
but over here you don't mean
anything.
330
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:42,880
This was America, you know,
331
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,960
this was the America that we'd all
heard about and read about.
332
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,880
Just to stay in a Holiday Inn
we thought,
333
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,760
"This is the Holiday Inn!" You know,
"This is a Holiday Inn!"
334
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,360
Because they're famous rock'n'roll
hotels,
335
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,640
you know,
people get banned from these.
336
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,040
So it was all experience.
337
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,040
And I can't remember ever feeling
338
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,320
jaded by it or, like,
depressed by it.
339
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,720
It was like we were touring America,
that's what you wanted to do.
340
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,720
The initial tour which
I was responsible for, 18 cities,
341
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,360
they were totally unknown.
342
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:37,080
I essentially did something that
I never did before,
343
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,280
for Genesis I had to lie.
344
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,560
Everybody in your city knows
about Genesis because of imports,
345
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,920
the thousands are coming in daily,
346
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,040
and universally loved it, ah,
347
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,280
it's underground, you can't see it.
348
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,720
I can see it, but you can't.
But don't worry, they'll come.
349
00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:02,840
The first time I saw them, I noticed
that the audience seemed to
350
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:08,840
be elevated, they were lifted
out of the mundane for a moment.
351
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,760
I saw that.
352
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,240
It was like a religious service,
it was very powerful, very palpable.
353
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,880
I was moved along with the audience.
354
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,720
Early Genesis followers,
early Genesis listeners,
355
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,400
almost embraced them as, not a cult,
356
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:32,520
but some kind of emotional religious
openness to freedom, because
357
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,760
music still does, but especially
back then, it spoke to you.
358
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,600
It touched a part of you.
359
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,840
Particularly with Supper's Ready,
which is
360
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,880
the 23-and-a-half-minute anthem,
which was then side two,
361
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,160
which, I think, stands as the
definitive Genesis work of art.
362
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:50,800
I can say no less.
363
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,200
Yeah, there is
this sort of spiritual yearning
364
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,040
going on through everything that
I do, and with Supper's Ready
365
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:02,560
there was a powerful mood
in the audience sometimes that
366
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:09,480
you just could harness and we could
convert very cynical people!
367
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,760
The opening part was a wonderful
Tony Banks' guitar piece.
368
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,960
And because he doesn't play
guitar very much he chose a shape
369
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,840
I would never have chosen, because
370
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,080
it's just a weird...
371
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,120
finger movement.
372
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,720
A guitarist would never play that,
because you weren't a guitarist...
373
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,600
I played it...
You never were a guitarist,
374
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,840
get that straight. You played sort
of, you know...
375
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,240
That first two or three
minutes of it was just
376
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,560
a chord sequence I wrote,
but I knew it was going to have
377
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,840
a melody on it, I wasn't worried
about that.
378
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,400
I think when we first
started writing we were...
379
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,240
This is going...
Knew it was going to get fucked up...
380
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,840
LAUGHTER
381
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,960
Tony was never short of a solo
or whatever,
382
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,200
and I had always come in and start
wanting to put vocal things.
383
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,680
So it was, sort of, really
decorating around what he did.
384
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,920
And, you know, I think
we had a good partnership.
385
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:40,240
When I sang "the new Jerusalem", I
was absolutely singing from my gut
386
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,280
and I think people could feel that.
387
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:50,120
Whether it was a sort of spiritual
goal destination, it's a...
388
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:51,840
powerful word.
389
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,320
And then you have Blake's Jerusalem
390
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,960
and that history as well.
391
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,400
So there was all of that
washed into it.
392
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,160
I think when we got it right,
we had something that none of us
393
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,520
could do on our own.
394
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,720
And there were different musical
histories, you know,
395
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,600
merging together in a powerful way.
396
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,480
For me, when Genesis actually
found their feet was
397
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,080
when the tunes started to become
a little bit more robust.
398
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,520
I mean, you can hear in Selling
England By The Pound,
399
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,840
I Know What I Like,
that sounds like a good pop song.
400
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,760
The structures are still proggy,
401
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,240
they're still slightly overblown
and long and mad, in a sense,
402
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,480
but the production is sharper,
that you...
403
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,400
They needed to make
themselves slightly more palatable
404
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,760
to the layman rather than
the prog fan and it worked.
405
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,720
Peter had this idea and he was
406
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,680
quite dogmatic that he wanted to do
this idea,
407
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,040
and we thought,
"Well, you know, OK."
408
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,760
But it meant him writing pretty much
all the lyrics as well.
409
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,840
You know, if you really want to
define a world you have to
410
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,000
let one person paint it.
411
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,440
There weren't many novels
created by committee.
412
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,920
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
was a complex beast in every way.
413
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,120
It pretty much broke up the band
in terms of Gabriel leaving.
414
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:44,680
He said there were autobiographical
elements in there,
415
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,240
but then again there were bits
of dreams and bits of surrealism.
416
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:54,320
We all were in thrall to bands
who could create a weirdness,
417
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,440
an almost Monty Python-like
418
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,640
side to music at that point.
419
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,880
I remember thinking that the two
were almost together at that
420
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,520
point in late '60s, early '70s
Britain.
421
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,840
It's the one time Peter did all the
words himself, bar sort of one song.
422
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,240
Maybe it had to be that
way, I think, actually.
423
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,520
You couldn't have sort of shared the
words in the same way, in my mind.
424
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,600
I'm sure Banks disagrees but I think
you probably couldn't have done.
425
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,400
You know, I think the prime venom
was between Tony and I.
426
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,280
It's a funny period for me.
427
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,760
The Lamb was my least favourite
period during the whole
428
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,200
of the time with the group,
basically because - mainly
429
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,880
because there were problems with
Peter, I think, you know?
430
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,600
You know, because we'd obviously
been very close up to that point
431
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,280
and, sort of, things were going
a bit wrong and all the rest of it.
432
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,720
He just didn't like me getting away
with too much, you know,
433
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,080
or getting into
a controlling position.
434
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:52,480
So there was, I think, wanting to
keep check on my power as well.
435
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,320
I wasn't really that
excited by the story,
436
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,680
I have to be honest about it,
I never have been.
437
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,560
And that kind of was what the whole
thing was hanging on.
438
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:01,800
In The Cage
439
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,040
Peter was, you know,
he was flashing back and forth.
440
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:20,280
You know, his birth of his daughter
was fairly traumatic.
441
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,080
So, from his point of view
the writing was very slow.
442
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,560
The problems
with my daughter's birth
443
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,000
and the fact she was in an incubator
for a good amount of time that
444
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:35,080
was absolutely number one for me,
there was nothing more important.
445
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,440
And there was very little tolerance
and understanding for that.
446
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,280
Meanwhile, the album was being
delayed and delayed
447
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,000
and delayed and then the end result
being, of course, that
448
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,680
the day the album came out was
the first show we did on the tour.
449
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,040
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway,
I think,
450
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,200
was a massively brave album
451
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,600
to make. Hugely ambitious, you know,
452
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,000
you can't fault
a band for being ambitious.
453
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,000
Prime example of what not to do is
to go on tour with a new album
454
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,120
not released and play
the entire double album live.
455
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,840
Now, that was a risk,
bearing in mind this was a time
456
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,440
they needed to be steadily
building their American audience,
457
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,680
they decide to produce this
out-of-left-field concept album.
458
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,480
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
459
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,480
To go from Selling
England By The Pound,
460
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,720
to go from this English rural
atmosphere to, you know, the mean
461
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,040
streets of New York I think it's
an incredibly brave album to make.
462
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,400
It's an album
I will defend to the hilt.
463
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,840
It is a sort of Pilgrim's Progress
464
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,880
set on the streets of New York
for me.
465
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,920
He was a punk character in a way,
Rael.
466
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:03,440
It's a journey through which
he learns to destroy oneself,
467
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,160
to open up the space for another.
468
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,000
The Lamb was probably slightly
ahead of its time.
469
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,640
They did it and, from what I know,
470
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,880
the slides that they used on the
back projector failed regularly.
471
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,160
They never quite got it right,
and yet they carried on doggedly -
472
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:25,400
this will work.
473
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,720
And although it was a troublesome
child, you know,
474
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,240
with the visual side, you know,
I mean, a few nights it actually
475
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,160
worked properly,
but most nights it didn't.
476
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,720
What I remember about The Lamb
477
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,720
was smoking a little joint
before I went on,
478
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:07,800
and putting headphones on,
and playing in my own little world!
479
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,320
And I just had a great time every
night, you know?
480
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:14,960
It was great to play.
481
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:28,560
'The Lamb album was the best
we'd ever been on a record.'
482
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,600
INSTRUMENTS KICK IN
483
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,200
It was such a multimedia event
The Lamb,
484
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,600
the screens, Pete's costumes,
the music.
485
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,440
It was just an assault
on the senses, I think.
486
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,280
The problem with The Lamb Lies Down
On Broadway was that
487
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,160
when it was done live it was being
performed, you know,
488
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,080
across North America to audiences
that had never heard it,
489
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,440
that are sitting there going, "The
Knife?" And going, "What is this?
490
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,280
"And why is Peter in a huge bobbly
suit, and what on earth is going on?"
491
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,360
There was with the Slipperman
outfit,
492
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:26,840
which had this sort of big head,
I couldn't hold the mic properly,
493
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,200
and they didn't have these little
radio mics then,
494
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,160
so you couldn't hear a word
I was singing
495
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,640
when I was in that.
496
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,280
But in a way, you know,
whenever sort of Spinal Tap
497
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,720
is on or something and you see these
moments you think,
498
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,960
"I've been in a band like that!"
499
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,640
Where the pod didn't open, you know?
500
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,720
That's Genesis!
501
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,440
It was becoming increasingly
difficult,
502
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,920
the way the band was perceived
was getting difficult,
503
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,160
it was seen very much as Peter
and the band, you know,
504
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,680
and that was kind of difficult
for all the rest of us because...
505
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,000
I think it was creating some
jealousies.
506
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,640
Yeah, of course it was, you know,
we were only in our early 20s
507
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,080
and it was a difficult time that,
you know?
508
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,960
And certainly people would
come in the dressing room...
509
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,000
In America I remember the record
company guys, the local guys and
510
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,160
the promoters would come and say,
"Yay, Pete, great show, great show,
511
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,560
"when you put that mask on they
loved it, the kids loved it!"
512
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,800
You know, I'm exaggerating, but it
would be that kind of thing.
513
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,040
And it would be like "Hello,
you know, it's a band, you know?"
514
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,360
And the music was first.
515
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,520
It was a very difficult time,
516
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:42,600
but I still feel that along with
Supper's Ready it's
517
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,120
one of the things that I feel best
about from my time with Genesis.
518
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,920
We were in a hotel in Cleveland
and Peter came to my room
519
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,760
and said, "Look, I can't do this any
more, I'm at the end of this...
520
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,640
"I'm leaving
at the end of the tour."
521
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,560
The Carpet Crawlers
522
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,000
We had, I remember, a very long
conversation actually about it,
523
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,800
but I knew that he was not -
he was not going to come back,
524
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,920
it was as simple as that really.
525
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,040
But we talked anyhow, really.
526
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,800
"This is the band, man!" You know?
"What are you doing?"
527
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,120
"This is..."
528
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,960
It's... It felt a little bit cheated
529
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,360
and let down by the fact that
someone's going to leave.
530
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,840
For him one of the reasons,
apart from family reasons
531
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,720
and everything else, is something
that I'm sure he'd felt he'd
532
00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:39,880
sort of got to a point that he'd,
sort of, moved on really.
533
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,480
And then we kept it very quiet
right to the end of the tour.
534
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,400
We didn't really make any
announcements
535
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,280
until the end of the tour.
536
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,480
I felt desperate to tell
the audience that I was going,
537
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:57,320
and it felt like I was betraying
the people who were coming,
538
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,320
who were paying to see us,
that I couldn't be myself
539
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,440
and be real and be honest
and tell them what I was feeling.
540
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,200
We all got quite
emotional at the last show.
541
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,680
It was like talking about someone
dying, I suppose,
542
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,000
but, I mean, no-one had prepared
themselves for this.
543
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,840
The Musical Box
544
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,960
I remember thinking, "Oh, my God,
what are we going to do?"
545
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,160
The British press, certainly,
sort of started to write Genesis's
546
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,000
obituary when Peter left.
547
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,280
We knew that we were
going to carry on,
548
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,720
so I said, "Let's just do the whole
thing instrumentally, you know?"
549
00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:00,520
And it was like a cartoon,
it was like -
550
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,960
"Well, let's just do the whole thing
instrumentally."
551
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,680
"Shut up!"
552
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,920
You know? "Are you mad,
are you crazy?
553
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,080
"We write songs, they need to be
sung. Now, just shut up!"
554
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,360
You know, that's the way
I felt it was.
555
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,360
"Sorry, just a suggestion."
556
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,440
We auditioned quite a few singers.
557
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,640
And most of the time Phil would sing
the part to show them what they
558
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:37,920
were singing and then they'd sing it
and it wouldn't be as good as Phil.
559
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,960
I didn't want to not be the drummer.
560
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,040
You know, this is what I did,
this is my territory!
561
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,680
"I don't want to go,
don't push me out there, sir,
562
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,640
"please don't take me out there,
don't send me
563
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,080
"out there with a microphone."
I didn't want to do that.
564
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,520
You know, it was a question really
565
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,760
whether he wanted to do it more
than anything else.
566
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,560
You know, we did,
as far as I can remember,
567
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,000
we did revisit some of the tapes
568
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,440
and thought, "Is there really
nobody that we've heard?"
569
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,480
You know,
and we decided that there wasn't.
570
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:02,800
A Trick Of The Tail
571
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,200
I think the big question mark was
572
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,480
whether he could cut it on the more
rock,
573
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,600
out and out rock stuff,
whether his voice was big enough.
574
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,080
I remember nothing but good
vibes from the audience, you know.
575
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,640
They wanted this to work. They
didn't compare with me with Pete.
576
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,320
I was one of the guys in the band
coming forward.
577
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:43,920
And I'd been there all along.
578
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,840
I think I had more confidence
in the band being able to be
579
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,760
successful than they did initially.
580
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,120
Last May the lead
vocalist
581
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,920
of the British progressive
rock group,
582
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,360
Genesis, left the group.
583
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,040
Now, when this happens a group either
breaks up or dies a very slow death.
584
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,600
But because of the versatility
of each individual at Genesis
585
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,160
they're doing very well.
586
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,040
As a matter of fact, they seem to be
doing better than ever before.
587
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,000
I believe it was your quote,
I am going to not give it verbatim,
588
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,800
that it was like a very big
load off everybody
589
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,640
when he finally did leave.
Is that true?
590
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,720
Yeah. I mean...
591
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:36,720
now it's paying off in a way.
592
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:38,360
One feels better about it,
593
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,800
because you've come
out from an underdog situation.
594
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,280
The sad thing is that when someone
leaves, like Anthony and Peter,
595
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,280
there's a sadness because, you know,
you'll never be as close again.
596
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:49,960
You know, you stay in touch
and you see,
597
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,080
but you lose that bond of sharing
things that I've had with Tony
598
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,840
and Phil for the last, way
too many years.
599
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,920
A lot of people compliment me
on A Trick Of The Tail
600
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,320
when I wasn't actually there,
so it's...
601
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,080
LAUGHTER
Reflected glory. Yeah.
602
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,920
One of your finest moments.
603
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,160
The band were much more successful
without me than they were with me.
604
00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:35,040
After Pete left,
605
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,920
two years later I was basically
doing the same thing myself.
606
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,360
I feel uncomfortable talking about
it even now.
607
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,360
I feel, you know,
if I reveal too much
608
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:44,920
it's a man ratting on the regiment.
609
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,440
I'm very grateful to the
regiment for everything it gave me.
610
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,760
He's a fantastic lead
guitarist.
611
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,080
You hear one of those songs
612
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,200
and it'll be absolutely unique,
you know?
613
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,960
In many ways it was such
a claustrophobic experience.
614
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,960
Harder and harder to find relevant
things for the guitar to do,
615
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,160
so, over time, I started to
amass solo material.
616
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,320
God forgive me, guys, but I just
thought it's the only way to
617
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,080
go to get ideas across is to just
negotiate with myself in the end.
618
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,720
But there you are,
that's the way bands are.
619
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:22,800
I think there was a certain
amount of, you know,
620
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,960
who shouted the loudest
and got the most grumpy
621
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,240
if their bit wasn't used, you know,
which would be me.
622
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:28,640
Yeah, well, I mean I did probably
623
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,120
get more on than other people,
you know, and that's...
624
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,040
So, you've either got me
to blame or to love for the music.
625
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,400
We then thought about getting
someone else in,
626
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,640
but I think we felt that
the three of us had gone...
627
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,480
we were so close at that point
in time, such a good working unit,
628
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,280
that to bring a new person in -
I mean it could have worked,
629
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:49,360
you know, but it wasn't quite
so... It wasn't imperative.
630
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,480
By this point, the music business
had changed a great deal, which we
631
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,320
hadn't sort of really been aware of,
still most of it escaped us because
632
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,760
we were out in America most of this
time, but punk music
633
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,600
had come in and a lot of the old
bands seemed to have disappeared.
634
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,440
If Genesis were all of a sudden
going to start sounding
635
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:25,120
like The Jam or Johnny Rotten I just
don't think it would have worked!
636
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,360
Anarchy In The UK
by the Sex Pistols
637
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,080
I mean, the sound
of the Sex Pistols, I thought
638
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:40,280
they had a fantastic sound,
it just sounded so...legitimate.
639
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:50,080
So I kind of liked it, and then
I realised that we were the enemy,
640
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,560
you know, we were the people
that they were trying to get rid of.
641
00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:00,080
We sort of seemed to go
through it regardless.
642
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:01,440
In fact, we were lucky in a sense
643
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,720
that all the opposition had
kind of been killed off.
644
00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:06,160
After Peter left, of course,
Phil came into his own
645
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,640
and the hits started coming.
646
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,440
Somehow, almost by chance,
Genesis redefined their sound,
647
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:18,160
went for more compressed,
shorter numbers, a less florid sound
648
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,200
and, sort of, almost by chance
started to have hit singles.
649
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,480
Follow You Follow Me
650
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,960
We were lucky with
And Then There Were Three,
651
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,320
which proved to be, you know, our
most successful album at the time.
652
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,760
Follow You Follow Me
actually being a single hit,
653
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,200
first hit we really had, you know?
654
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:41,600
Follow You Follow Me
655
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,360
must have just been an interesting
exercise for the band.
656
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,800
You know, they probably set out
and thought,
657
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,240
"Right, how do we write a hit?" And
suddenly, a band that was probably
658
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:53,160
a predominantly male chin-stroking
audience was being played
659
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,960
at the, you know, the slow dance at
the end of the Friday-night disco.
660
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,600
Actually, Mike was the first one to
really write the love lyric,
661
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,840
which was Follow You Follow Me which
doubled our audience overnight,
662
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,080
suddenly
we were more female-friendly.
663
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:28,600
I had never met Chester.
664
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,800
You know, I had seen him
play with Weather Report.
665
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,920
And there was a track that
I really liked,
666
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,960
when he played with Zappa,
the Live At The Roxy album.
667
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,800
And him and another drummer, I just
liked his playing on this one track.
668
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,400
So I called him and I said, "Do you
want to join the band?"
669
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:46,720
He said, "Well, yeah."
670
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:48,960
And then I was saying,
"Man, I'm going
671
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,200
"over to do rehearsals with this band
Genesis," and he gets this worried
672
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:53,400
look on his face, says,
673
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,880
"Man, are you
going to have to wear costumes?"
674
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,920
And I thought, "Oh-oh,
what am I getting into here?!"
675
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:13,760
What we were missing in the visual
department with Peter not
676
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:18,000
being there and his costumes,
we suddenly had another facet,
677
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,640
which was two drummers together,
one drummer, another drum...
678
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,880
You know, it was mixing it up a bit.
679
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,360
Well, I think
we traded off quite a lot, actually.
680
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,600
I got a bit more of, I think,
681
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,040
maybe the sort of his edge in my own
playing.
682
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:39,120
And I like to think he got a little
funkier over the years, you know?
683
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,840
CHEERING
684
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,080
When I saw that Chester was going to
join I thought, "That's going
685
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:51,880
"to be a pretty nice band to be in."
686
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:57,880
Daryl can play anything, you know,
687
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,640
he's an incredibly versatile
musician, a brilliant musician.
688
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,760
We'll go back into the G
as a sort of...
689
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,000
We have to get
the end of Firth Of Fifth, I mean,
690
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,560
are we going to leave that till
another point?
691
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:08,960
So he has to sort of fit into
692
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,080
a certain style for the piece,
you know?
693
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,840
And when we wrote Firth Of Fifth,
you know, and Steve, obviously,
694
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,480
played a guitar solo on that, he was
quite a, you know, quite a
695
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,960
stiff player, particularly in those
days, a certain kind of effect.
696
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,560
I mean, it's very much a melodic
line
697
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,600
you're playing with Firth Of Fifth,
698
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,880
the main guitar solo and then you
improvise a little bit around it.
699
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,880
Firth Of Fifth
700
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,800
It turned into a very strong
moment, a stronger moment than
701
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,440
we probably ever thought it was
going to be when we first did it.
702
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,600
And I thought it would never work on
a guitar, but it just sounded great.
703
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,440
To me, Genesis is a style already,
that it's not country,
704
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,720
it's not rock, it's not jazz,
you know, it's Genesis.
705
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:06,240
Deep In The Motherlode
706
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,760
The road crew who had
travelled through the night start to
707
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,520
unload five tonnes of equipment
from three giant trucks.
708
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,640
Sound and lighting rigs are taken
into the theatre in preparation
709
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,880
for the evening concert.
710
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,320
CROWD CHEERING
711
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,600
I've come here so early as to meet
the band. Get the autographs.
712
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:55,960
Yeah, get the autographs.
713
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,280
Got quite a few.
You can tell who the real fans are.
714
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,120
OK, cheers.
715
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,560
Yeah, I think Genesis cover
a wide range of musical taste.
716
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,600
The earlier material as well.
717
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,480
Yeah, which will appeal to far
more people than, say,
718
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:12,880
just heavy metal bands.
719
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,320
I mean, Genesis appeals to
basically everyone.
720
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,040
What about your mates?
721
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,160
I get a lot of slagging off
because of Genesis,
722
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:20,880
they're not a vogue band to like.
723
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,880
I have no idea what it's all about
when people say -
724
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,920
"I listen to Genesis
but don't tell anyone."
725
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,160
What is it all about?
I mean, I really don't know.
726
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:35,240
It's melodic, it's inoffensive,
it's just good music.
727
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:38,280
I don't know why there's
a stigma about Genesis.
728
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:43,160
But I am happy to say that,
"I'm out, I'm out, I'm proud.
729
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,520
"I'm not afraid if someone's..."
730
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,400
I mean, I haven't had
to sit my family down over
731
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:49,760
Sunday lunch and say,
732
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,160
"I've something to tell you all -
I'm a Genesis fan."
733
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:53,920
But I don't mind being -
734
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,560
I don't mind the brickbats that
come with it.
735
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,800
It's a bit a mystery,
I don't know what the problem is.
736
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:03,040
It's an entrenched view in British
rock appreciation that
737
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,200
when the hits start coming
the band's gone off the boil.
738
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,320
The post-Gabriel albums,
certainly the first three or
739
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,160
four, are perhaps better than
they're given credit for.
740
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,400
And then by the time of Duke
they were getting - starting to
741
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,480
get the next level of sound,
which was more stadium-friendly.
742
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,600
When we did Duke, which is probably
my favourite album in many ways,
743
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,360
my personal favourite track
on the album, and also one that
744
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,720
I suppose is shorter, although it's
quite long, is Duchess, which sort
745
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:20,240
of starts in a very sort
of loose kind of way and then builds
746
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:23,600
to a very concise pop song and then
goes meandering again at the end.
747
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,160
It's one of my favourite tracks
we ever did.
748
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,280
When my marriage broke up
I had an empty house.
749
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,480
I just used to go down the pub,
and I kind of lived there.
750
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,000
It became my social life.
751
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,120
And I would go home and I'd start
thrashing around on a piano
752
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,360
and start writing songs, some of..
753
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,200
you know, some of them
were pretty sad.
754
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,640
Please Don't Ask was probably
the most personal song
755
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,600
I'd ever written, and this was me
really...
756
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,880
..baring my soul, if you like.
757
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,800
And very, very personal.
758
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,680
And, you know, it was strange,
I found myself thinking,
759
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,280
"What am I doing singing this song
on a Genesis record, this is..."
760
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:50,600
Because I know the people that buy
Genesis's record aren't really...
761
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,280
they're not going to be
touched by this.
762
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,600
But I don't think he'd written
a really particularly good lyric
763
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,000
until he found his voice,
which was really after, you know,
764
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,200
obviously, his marriage break-up
and everything
765
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,840
and he had time on his own,
he started writing these songs.
766
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,280
I played this stuff to
Mike and Tony.
767
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,040
I said, "This is what I've been
doing, pick whatever you want."
768
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,400
We really liked Please Don't Ask.
769
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,200
He played that to us,
a few others like that he played.
770
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,040
And, at the time, if we'd said,
771
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,520
"We want to do all of them,"
he would have said, "OK."
772
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:23,240
That was kind of, how it was really,
773
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:25,200
you know, everything went into
the pot.
774
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:26,800
A question of choosing
one other song.
775
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,840
Misunderstanding,
we knew we were going to do,
776
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,520
we'd heard that a lot,
liked it very much.
777
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,520
Now, one of the extraordinary
and unique things about the band,
778
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,560
and this is probably also
why they've survived so long,
779
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,600
is that all the members
of the classic line-up have managed
780
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,240
to follow solo careers
and yet still work together.
781
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,120
I think the thing that's always
overlooked is what an amazing
782
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,200
singer Gabriel was and is.
783
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,240
His voice was always
incredibly special.
784
00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:10,680
His first album,
785
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,880
the first Peter Gabriel album was
really interesting.
786
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,520
There's, you know, suddenly a hit
single - Solsbury Hill,
787
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,600
you know, the last thing you
would have imagined.
788
00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:44,600
Solsbury Hill is a song of
absolute liberation. It's uplifting.
789
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,840
It's almost like word paint
in a way, it climbs up,
790
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,480
the idea of the expanse
that he's looking over
791
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,800
and the potential
of what the future could be.
792
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,560
I think it's a masterpiece
of elation, that record.
793
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,360
The South Bank Show Theme
by Julian Lloyd Webber
794
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,600
Hello. Peter Gabriel made his name
in the rock world in the early
795
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:22,760
'70s as a singer-songwriter and
often wildly-theatrical performer
796
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:24,720
with the rock band Genesis.
797
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:26,200
He left them in 1975,
798
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:27,960
and since then he's built a new
799
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,280
reputation as a thoughtful solo
artist who takes immense
800
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:34,440
care in writing
and producing his own material.
801
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,400
His highly acclaimed third album
placed him at the forefront
802
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,960
of one of the most significant
recent developments in rock,
803
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:41,680
the increasing use of synthesisers
804
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,840
and sophisticated electronic
technology.
805
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,080
Games Without Frontiers
806
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:57,120
Peter didn't have a band
around the time of the third album
807
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,960
and so I said, "Well,
I'm doing nothing,"
808
00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:05,200
because I'd been through my great
sorrow, so I volunteered my services
809
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,760
as a drummer, and Peter said,
810
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,320
"I don't want any cymbals, I don't
want any cymbals on this."
811
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:15,000
And for a drummer that was... You
know, that was a big deal, you know?
812
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,160
"Oh, hang on, well, what's this hand
supposed to do?"
813
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,880
So we set up the drums
so that there was a drum instead
814
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,640
of a cymbal in that particular
position in case I had the urge.
815
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,400
LAUGHTER
You know, it was like...
816
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:34,880
Peter Gabriel's album was a dream
come true for a recording engineer,
817
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,520
because we were doing, you know,
818
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,600
so much sort of experimentation
with sound.
819
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,600
Just the wind in the pipe is quite
nice.
820
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,440
You think? Yeah. 'It was just great
fun, you know.'
821
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,120
DRUMBEAT PLAYS
822
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:55,760
So this is Intruder and it
starts off with the drum pattern.
823
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,800
I asked Phil to do a really
simple pattern there,
824
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,760
and it just sounded
like the future of drums.
825
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,240
I was so blown away that
I wanted to strip everything
826
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:17,760
back off the track and have this be
the absolute centre of it.
827
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:21,520
Mr Padgham...
828
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,280
Because Hugh Padgham
was the engineer,
829
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,760
the man with the hands on, that's
the reason why I befriended him
830
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,680
and thought he'd be the man
to make my first album.
831
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,720
And I think all creative people,
in the end, are just like dogs
832
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:40,440
in the park, you know,
you sniff something interesting
833
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,360
and you try and jump on it.
And, you know...
834
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:44,960
Speak for yourself.
835
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,400
We've always
been like that I think, you know.
836
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:49,880
You can always tell where we've
been sniffing. Yeah.
837
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:51,480
LAUGHTER
838
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:57,120
At a very early stage I established
a principle that the two,
839
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:58,840
the solo careers
840
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:03,440
and the Genesis career were always
maintained as very separate things.
841
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,080
We never mixed them.
842
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,320
There was never a time when we said,
843
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:11,040
"Oh, let's do a Phil Collins song
on a Genesis show," or vice versa.
844
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,680
We always kept the two things
very separate.
845
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,880
I think Phil went off to
do this own thing
846
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,120
because it was very clear that that
career was there for him.
847
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,280
He was probably the last of the band
to make a solo album.
848
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,200
I mean, actually, they had all
gone off and done other things.
849
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,440
He just went off
and did it rather more publicly
850
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,640
because he was a huge success at it.
851
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,720
I think it was probably a very
good thing we didn't do it.
852
00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:02,360
If Genesis had done it, I
think we'd have complicated it up.
853
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,400
But, of course,
that's its whole charm,
854
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,640
it's what works about it, is the
fact that it's so repetitive.
855
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,440
I'm glad, you know,
I'm glad we didn't use it because,
856
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:26,520
obviously, I was left to my own
devices on most of the material.
857
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,800
It's down in history now that
Tony Banks claims that
858
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,720
I didn't play him
In The Air Tonight, but I did.
859
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:35,440
And he didn't play
In The Air Tonight.
860
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,800
It doesn't matter
what anybody tells you.
861
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,960
I don't remember the moment
when I played In The Air Tonight.
862
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,600
I just was very proud of it,
so I don't understand why
863
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,840
I would not have done,
because at that point I hadn't
864
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:51,120
made my record, so I didn't know how
good or bad it was going to be.
865
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,760
Phil Collins, when he started
writing about the break-up
866
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,880
of his marriage and these love
songs, initially on his solo career,
867
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:00,120
but there was obviously a cross-over
between the songs he was writing
868
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,400
for both parties, it did introduce
an element of confessional.
869
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,880
I think what Collins did in terms
of channelling those emotions
870
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,880
in terms of what had happened in his
personal life into his music,
871
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,520
was something that the band had
never done, as far as we were aware.
872
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,400
He was very, very emotional,
something,
873
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:27,640
if I may say, that we British tend
not to show emotion so much, do we?
874
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,280
You know, the old stiff upper lip.
875
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:33,960
In a way, he's the master
of the romcom romance, isn't he?
876
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:35,880
These are extremely emotional songs.
877
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,240
All through the
'80s, growing up, I thought of him
878
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,080
as the guy playing the piano with
the pot of paint on it,
879
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:45,560
you know, the sort of,
the heartbreaking plaintive ballads.
880
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:09,120
We are unique in the fact that
I can't think of any other band
881
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,200
who's done this
solo/main band career
882
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,600
and run it for many years
afterwards, you know?
883
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,440
We always felt that whatever
we were doing is the main
884
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,880
thing at the time, the band or solo.
885
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,960
But it wasn't like, if you're doing
that you can't do that, you know?
886
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,640
And I'm sure it helped us
keep going, actually, the variety
887
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:32,080
of work and music was, I think,
gave us a freshness as a main band.
888
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,840
I know people who picked up on us
on, say, Abacab or something
889
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,520
and think that's the best album,
you know?
890
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,160
We always liked to throw in a bit
more sort of thinking kind of music
891
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:07,800
in there, did long songs
and tried to do a few things
892
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,720
that were slightly more, you know,
893
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:11,880
slightly less predictable,
if you like.
894
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,400
Another record that was really
big at the time
895
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:37,680
was Grandmaster Flash
and it was called "The Message",
896
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,560
and it had this sort of
"hoo-hoo-ha-ha-ha-ha"
897
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,360
sort of laugh in it.
898
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,440
Ha-ha, ha!
899
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,560
And we all thought, "That's
fantastic," you know? That laugh.
900
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,040
What a fantastic idea to have
on a record, a laugh, you know?
901
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:04,800
I mean not since
The Laughing Policeman
902
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,680
was there such a laugh on a record.
903
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,280
And I just started going, "Ha-ha-ha.
904
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,240
"Ha-ha-ha!" And everyone would
kind of, you know,
905
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,080
we were playing, and sort of looked
and laughed and smiled,
906
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,160
but I knew that it wasn't getting a
grimace, it was getting a smile,
907
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,520
you know? So I thought, "OK,
well, I'll remember that."
908
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,320
And the lyrics of Mama
were improvised.
909
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,760
I was kind of,
that's my kind of Lennon.
910
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,280
HE HUMS MELODY
911
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:43,080
Lennon sort of influence, kind
of with the echo, Be-Bop-A-Lula.
912
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,120
It was just kind of compression.
913
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,440
It sounded a bit like a Lennon song.
914
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,840
You had to sort of sneer a bit
when you were singing it.
915
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,040
Ha-ha, ha-ha. Oh...
916
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,520
In all the years, no-one
ever asked, "Why the laugh?"
917
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,280
Because I thought that people
would be surprised, you know?
918
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,520
Genesis. Grandmaster Flash.
919
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:26,040
Surely not?
920
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:28,720
That's All
921
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,800
The albums that became
huge in America and Britain,
922
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,320
they're concise, they're effective.
923
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,160
For me, they're a little clinical
but effective.
924
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,240
The soul and art rock, if you will,
of the previous albums
925
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:11,880
has been side-lined.
926
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:14,280
They're more like a well-oiled
machine by that point.
927
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,200
Stick at a thing for long enough,
you know?
928
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,000
No, I loved it.
It was great having hits.
929
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,040
You know, I'd been brought up
in the era of hits.
930
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:30,920
In the '60s, you know,
the next Beatles song coming out
931
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,600
was the sort of high point
of my existence, really,
932
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,440
and all this stuff, you know?
So hits for me were, you know,
933
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,080
I loved hits. And to suddenly
have records in the charts,
934
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,480
having your record... I mean
it's still a thrill for me now
935
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:42,840
to hear a record on the radio.
936
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:47,200
Right now, for the very first time
on Top Of The Pops, it's Genesis.
937
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,000
Turn It On Again
938
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,880
Less obvious hits like
Turn It On Again and Mama,
939
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,040
neither of which are very totally
straightforward pop songs,
940
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,960
were able to be hits because we were
kind of, we were accepted now,
941
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:01,440
we could be played on Radio One,
whereas in the old days
942
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:05,280
we could only be played on sort of
deepest, darkest sort of something.
943
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:27,800
Hi, I'm Phil Collins.
I'm Mike Rutherford.
944
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:29,280
And I'm Tony Banks. Of Genesis,
945
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:30,640
and you're watching MTV,
946
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:33,920
the world's first all day/all night
video music channel.
947
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:35,320
In stereo.
948
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:41,640
This MTV thing meant that a hit song
was so high-profile
949
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,280
that it was on every bar, every
restaurant all round the world.
950
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,000
Invisible Touch
951
01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,720
Once it got to Invisible Touch
and we had, you know,
952
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:01,560
in America we had
953
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:04,600
a number one single suddenly, you
know. Extraordinary.
954
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:07,200
And, you know, half a dozen songs
off that album,
955
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,480
because the way America calculated
charts
956
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:11,520
was on radio play
as much as on sales,
957
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:16,160
and we were played everywhere, so we
had all these songs that were hits.
958
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,240
Right now, ladies
and gentlemen, Genesis.
959
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,720
Genesis!
960
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,040
The almost all-Genesis weekend.
961
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:30,200
Start by casting your vote
in the next round
962
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,440
of the Friday night video clash.
963
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:37,440
The impact of MTV was enormously
influential
964
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:39,640
for Genesis and for Peter Gabriel.
965
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,280
They were always a very theatrical
band but, of course,
966
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,400
to very limited audiences
of a few thousand here
967
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:45,960
and 20,000 there, or whatever.
968
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:50,000
To suddenly be able to channel
those theatrical impulses
969
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:54,880
into video on MTV
changed their fortunes for ever.
970
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:56,800
MTV brings you Genesis tonight.
971
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,920
10pm Eastern, 9pm Central.
972
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:01,080
7pm Pacific.
973
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:04,520
I think the solo careers
of Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks
974
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:08,080
are always going to be over-shadowed
by those of Collins and Gabriel,
975
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,720
because they were the vocalists and,
you know, as is always the case.
976
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:14,120
I actually thought about
doing a solo album
977
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:16,800
before Trick Of The Tail,
so I did it and, you know,
978
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,520
I wrote A Curious Feeling.
979
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:28,400
I was obviously hoping for more
success than it had,
980
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:30,000
I have to be honest about it,
really.
981
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:31,960
But it did make the top 20,
so, you know, it can't be too bad.
982
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,240
So I did a load of those albums,
you know,
983
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:46,480
I did about half a dozen albums,
five albums, I think, solo albums.
984
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:50,160
But then the idea came, perhaps
just before I concede,
985
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:53,600
I should have a go at doing stuff
with an orchestra,
986
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,080
and I wrote a couple
of pieces that I thought would work
987
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:58,240
really well with an orchestra.
988
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,600
And, you know, I actually got some
quite good reviews
989
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:10,320
from the classical people, even.
990
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:13,040
You know, I mean most of them were
sort of, you know, don't want
991
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:15,120
to know about rock guys doing
classical music,
992
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:16,480
it's somehow beyond the pale.
993
01:08:16,480 --> 01:08:18,760
But it was, it got some good
reviews.
994
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:20,600
Actually it sold quite well,
995
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:23,000
far better than anything
I'd done before.
996
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:45,280
In order to be a solo artist,
you have to be a singer.
997
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:48,640
Without that, it's a bit tough,
as I found out.
998
01:08:50,480 --> 01:08:53,080
If you write a good song,
you want a great voice
999
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:54,720
and that great voice isn't me.
1000
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:11,440
The fastest rising hit in Britain
and the States,
1001
01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:14,840
written by Scotland's BA Robertson
and Mike Rutherford of Genesis.
1002
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:18,280
It's called The Living Years
from Mike and the Mechanics.
1003
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:40,680
I find the act of collaboration
the exciting part.
1004
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,280
You're sort of, you're feeding
off what the other person's doing.
1005
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:04,000
I would have always probably carried
on co-writing, because I like that.
1006
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:08,880
I was being given fantastic
opportunities, if you like,
1007
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:12,080
and I just think, "Yeah, how can
I say no to that, you know?
1008
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:15,160
"Because maybe I won't get asked
again, I should do that,
1009
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:17,600
"it'll be great fun, you know?"
Whereas in fact you end up
1010
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:19,840
being everywhere and in people's
faces the whole time.
1011
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:31,960
Ladies and gentlemen, Phil Collins.
1012
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:38,000
Congratulations on the five Emmy
Awards.
1013
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:40,520
Yes, the Grammys, yeah.
Grammys, right.
1014
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:52,000
So how about the fellas in Genesis,
are they furious?
1015
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,600
Oh, no, no, no, no.
They're spitting blood I heard.
1016
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,680
The rumour in the music press
is they're spitting blood.
1017
01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:59,880
I mean, it was great for him,
you know,
1018
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:02,400
he was our friend, we wanted him
to do well but, you know,
1019
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:05,400
we didn't want him to do that well,
not initially.
1020
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:09,000
But, you know, it was the thing
and it kind of never went away.
1021
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:21,600
He was ubiquitous for about 15
years, you know?
1022
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:23,800
You couldn't get away from him,
it was a nightmare.
1023
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,520
Peter's music changed once
he left Genesis,
1024
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,440
because he wasn't under
the Genesis umbrella.
1025
01:11:46,440 --> 01:11:49,400
Now it's true, of course,
that all the members of Genesis
1026
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:52,680
were having hits, but it was Peter
who was the one becoming more
1027
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:56,280
and more involved in politics
and political causes.
1028
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,160
I think the stuff Peter Gabriel
has done politically
1029
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:00,760
is enormously important.
1030
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:02,720
And I think he was always
ahead of the curve.
1031
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:05,040
You know, he always kind of knew
what was going on.
1032
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,440
I mean, songs that I know people
probably get sick to death
1033
01:12:08,440 --> 01:12:10,960
of people banging on about,
songs like Biko and stuff,
1034
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:12,800
but, you know,
nobody else was doing it.
1035
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:17,960
A man who was imprisoned, tortured
and killed in a jail in South Africa.
1036
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:21,320
This is for Stephen Biko.
1037
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:25,480
Biko's death may have done more
damage to South Africa's image
1038
01:12:25,480 --> 01:12:29,800
abroad than he could have achieved
alive with 1,000 speeches.
1039
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:33,440
Why were you drawn at the time
to write a song about Biko?
1040
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:37,640
I think it was a tremendous shock
because I think no-one...
1041
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:40,400
There'd been a certain amount
of publicity about his arrest
1042
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:42,920
and no-one was expecting him
to be killed.
1043
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,440
I think had he been allowed to live
he could have been
1044
01:13:02,440 --> 01:13:06,200
a great African statesman, perhaps
sort of crystallised the hopes
1045
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:10,240
of a lot of young people in the way
that Kennedy did in America.
1046
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:12,320
And I think it's tragic
the way, you know,
1047
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,960
he was, his life was cut short.
1048
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:30,160
We'd dreamt of having our own studio
for years, you know, because going
1049
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:33,000
to these holes in the ground in sort
of, first of all, in London
1050
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:36,440
and stuff, we just thought it would
be so nice, and then you could
1051
01:13:36,440 --> 01:13:37,880
actually sort of write and record
1052
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:39,880
in the same place
with no time pressures.
1053
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:41,960
Invisible Touch
was the first album we did here.
1054
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:43,960
And when we got here it was
fantastic.
1055
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:46,400
And the key thing was
being able to sort of focus,
1056
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,680
because otherwise you have to write
an album, rehearse it quite well
1057
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:51,040
and then go and record it.
1058
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:53,680
So you'd already sort of decided
how it was going to sound,
1059
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,480
whereas, because we owned the place,
we could sort of write
1060
01:13:56,480 --> 01:13:58,800
and almost record at the same time
and mess around.
1061
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,040
It just it made the whole thing a
lot freer and I think better for us.
1062
01:14:34,440 --> 01:14:37,200
I think all the other albums
at that time were,
1063
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:40,040
to a certain extent, treading water.
1064
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:41,840
The big one was Invisible Touch,
1065
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:45,640
that was the one that moved them
to the level where
1066
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:50,600
they could create an album
that 14.5 million people would buy.
1067
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:53,640
And they never really
topped that moment.
1068
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:07,520
I'd become one of the people
of the '80s -
1069
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:10,920
that was one of the reasons
why people didn't like it.
1070
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:14,800
Just do that small lean forward,
please.
1071
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,280
I used to travel to England a lot
and do videos for Genesis
1072
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:21,920
and Phil and other bands there, and
I always watched Spitting Image
1073
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:24,960
on television, because it was
a great show.
1074
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:27,760
And one time they had a video
of Phil,
1075
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:32,040
and he was like crying, and it was
about his wife leaving him.
1076
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:45,680
I thought to myself, "This is really
cool, they have a Phil puppet."
1077
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:48,920
And for a long time I was thinking
it would be great to do
1078
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:50,440
a puppet video with them.
1079
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:55,080
I, Ronald Reagan, do solemnly swear,
1080
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:57,040
that I will faithfully execute
1081
01:15:57,040 --> 01:15:59,280
the office of the President
of the United States.
1082
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:02,920
Mr President, we have an idea...
1083
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,560
It wasn't a fun decade at all.
1084
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:08,320
You had such division
in the country. You had riots
1085
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:09,440
with the police.
1086
01:16:09,440 --> 01:16:12,280
Thatcher was such an abrasive
and divisive person.
1087
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:13,960
Do you have any piranha?
1088
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:15,720
As indeed was Reagan.
1089
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:30,280
It's a song that is the nearest
I've ever come to actually making
1090
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:31,560
an out in the open statement.
1091
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,520
I normally make little comments
about things in a subtle
1092
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:36,800
sort of an aside way.
1093
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:40,240
It's really about how we live in
a very nice world
1094
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:42,600
and what a mess we're making of it,
1095
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:46,200
and how it should all be so easy
and how it's all so difficult.
1096
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:48,000
It's a kind of '80s protest song.
1097
01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:58,640
The sad thing is, you know,
the puppets are in better shape
1098
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:01,880
than the people we're caricaturing
these days, you know?
1099
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:04,480
I hope Phil's doing well
compared to his puppet.
1100
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:11,160
Yeah, I bought one of my heads.
1101
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:13,560
Someone in Texas has bought my head.
1102
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,440
Slightly worries me actually.
What's he doing with it?
1103
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:24,760
I mean, we're just popular,
and there's nothing wrong with that.
1104
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:27,640
I mean, we just got more popular.
1105
01:17:29,440 --> 01:17:32,600
I won't take the credit and I won't
take the blame, you know?
1106
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:57,560
With MTV and videos, a hit single
overshadowed the whole album,
1107
01:17:57,560 --> 01:18:00,440
and people started sort of saying,
"Well, you know,
1108
01:18:00,440 --> 01:18:02,160
"you stopped doing long songs."
1109
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:03,320
We never did, really.
1110
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:05,800
You know, every album had a sort of
15 minute song on it
1111
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:08,000
till the very end,
but they're album tracks,
1112
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:10,080
and so they weren't
on the television,
1113
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:14,120
they weren't on the radio, but live
they're a big part of the set.
1114
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:22,040
I always knew the long songs
would always grab them.
1115
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:23,480
A - they were good songs,
1116
01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:25,680
B - visually they were
very impressive,
1117
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:28,360
with the varied lights
and the staging.
1118
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:39,960
So, in a sense, I think
those who came to see us
1119
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:43,080
because of the singles and the short
songs and the radio tracks
1120
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:45,200
went away with a different
impression of us.
1121
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:58,040
When we played live, the songs
that have really stood out
1122
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:00,200
are things like Domino
and Home By the Sea,
1123
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:02,920
which are probably the classic
songs from the later period.
1124
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:17,920
Well, neither of those were singles
1125
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:20,040
or even any attempt at being
a single,
1126
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:22,000
and yet they worked so well live.
1127
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,400
You really build to a climax with
both those songs.
1128
01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:48,880
It was extraordinary really, and you
knew it couldn't last, actually.
1129
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:05,840
It was on a divine
visitation that the Lord told me
1130
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:08,480
that I was to go on the television.
1131
01:20:08,480 --> 01:20:12,560
'Ernest Angley,
and he talked like that,
1132
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:14,680
'and he was very affected'
1133
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:16,440
and he would,
1134
01:20:16,440 --> 01:20:21,920
with his beautiful leisure suit
and a very bad wig,
1135
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:24,120
and he would...
1136
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:30,640
"Out of the screen, you devil!"
You know, it was awful stuff.
1137
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:34,520
I mean, it was very, you know,
Bible-belt eccentric.
1138
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:58,840
I just had a problem with the whole,
you know, TV evangelists.
1139
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:01,920
I mean, when I was growing there
was Billy Graham, you know,
1140
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:03,560
and that was it.
1141
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:22,440
We were improvising and trying
different things,
1142
01:21:22,440 --> 01:21:25,880
and eventually when I was singing.
I'd sing, "Jesus, he knows me."
1143
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:30,560
And I don't know if Tony and Mike
were really kind of hearing it.
1144
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:34,440
I don't think they were too sure
about the lyric
1145
01:21:34,440 --> 01:21:37,840
until I'd, you know, finished it.
1146
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:40,120
Because it was a satire in the end.
1147
01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:42,920
I think they kind of thought that it
was a bit serious.
1148
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:44,560
It was quite fun, I mean, you know?
1149
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:47,400
We had the girls in the middle,
didn't we? Yeah.
1150
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:50,280
We insisted. We'd made so many
videos and we just wanted
1151
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:52,480
one time to do a video
like David Lee Roth...
1152
01:21:52,480 --> 01:21:54,760
To be near naked women. Yeah!
1153
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:56,760
So we had this bit
in the middle of that,
1154
01:21:56,760 --> 01:21:58,480
which was an excuse for it, really.
1155
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:20,520
I can't remember quite when
we started writing We Can't Dance,
1156
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,520
but it was done in a pretty...
1157
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,680
You know, once we started
we kept going till we'd finished it.
1158
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:30,720
It didn't take a ridiculous amount
of time to write We Can't Dance.
1159
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:38,760
But I wrote a lot of lyrics
on We Can't Dance,
1160
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:42,280
and I think I was allowed
to do that.
1161
01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:46,920
You know, I mean I still...
1162
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:50,600
I still play third in line.
1163
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:54,320
Unless the lyrics are right.
We're in now.
1164
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:56,760
We'll probably come back to a vocal,
I don't know where.
1165
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:58,720
If you want me to sing,
George, I'll sing.
1166
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:01,960
Want me to sing, I'll sing. If you
don't want me to sing, I won't sing.
1167
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:04,600
I'm still the new boy, even now.
1168
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:06,200
It's kind of amazing, isn't it?
1169
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:08,440
CHEERING
1170
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:19,840
When we put out We Can't Dance,
1171
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:21,880
we were very confident
at that point.
1172
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:31,400
The line "something about the way
we walk",
1173
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:35,680
I thought was the sort of funniest
line in it, so the feeling I had
1174
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:38,200
was we should do the choruses
with a silly walk.
1175
01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:41,200
Now, the silly walk was his,
you know? He'd have this walk around
1176
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:43,960
which apparently you used to
do at stage school or something.
1177
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:46,640
Yeah, I was at a drama school...
Drama school.
1178
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:48,680
It wasn't that good.
1179
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:51,360
You could always tell the people
that really shouldn't
1180
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:52,960
be doing dancing, you know,
1181
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:55,280
because they'd do the same foot
and the same hand.
1182
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:58,440
And it just always struck me
as funny, that.
1183
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:36,560
And obviously that did well,
the album did very well.
1184
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:38,920
It was sort of towards
the end of that period
1185
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:41,840
when we released our final
single from that album,
1186
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:45,440
a song called Tell Me Why, that
I sort of felt suddenly it was...
1187
01:24:45,440 --> 01:24:49,200
Something had changed, and we didn't
get played on radio and stuff.
1188
01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:51,880
And really from then on, you know,
1189
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:54,040
suddenly Genesis was sort of phtt,
like that.
1190
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:56,480
And these things sort of sometimes
suddenly happen
1191
01:24:56,480 --> 01:24:58,160
and you don't quite know why.
1192
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:26,600
I think the fans thought that they'd
seen the last of Genesis,
1193
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:29,840
so it came as a real joyous surprise
when they announced that they
1194
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:33,360
were getting back together
for a final tour in 2006.
1195
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:35,520
It certainly was a surprise to me.
1196
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:38,400
I think it is the fact that
regardless of your age, race,
1197
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:41,840
genre, colour - everybody loves
a little bit of Genesis.
1198
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:48,520
Have you been waiting long?
1199
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:50,760
We've been waiting for you 15 years.
1200
01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:52,280
Darling, darling.
1201
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:55,320
'They're a band that's managed to
straddle so many different phases
1202
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:58,040
'in the history of British
rock music and they're still around.'
1203
01:25:58,040 --> 01:26:00,520
They were sensible enough
to realise that
1204
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:03,920
what they had
was worth more than the parts.
1205
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:06,760
Yeah, there are a couple of old
songs in their entirety.
1206
01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:08,920
Well, just try a few
and see what happens.
1207
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:12,080
People will investigate that back
catalogue and really realise
1208
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:14,840
that there really is some
wonderful, artistic, intelligent
1209
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:17,920
stuff in there, which is exactly
what we're always crying out for.
1210
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:20,920
We're always moaning, "Where is
the art, where is the intelligence,
1211
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:23,840
"where is the ambition in
today's simplistic music?"
1212
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:24,920
Well, it's there.
1213
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:33,640
I think the secret to Genesis's
longevity
1214
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:36,480
is that they are the progressive
rock band who progressed.
1215
01:26:36,480 --> 01:26:39,320
And progressive rock bands,
according to their fans,
1216
01:26:39,320 --> 01:26:43,400
are supposed to stop about two
albums into progressing
1217
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:46,840
and progress no more,
and that's why they've survived.
1218
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:51,480
They're great musicians, great
writers of music, great lyricists.
1219
01:26:51,480 --> 01:26:54,560
And I love the fact
that they also expand
1220
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:57,160
and explore with other musicians.
1221
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:02,440
They have straddled so many periods.
1222
01:27:02,440 --> 01:27:05,720
They have been hugely successful
within prog rock in the '70s,
1223
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:07,640
as a pop and rock band in the '80s.
1224
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:11,320
Gabriel's had a solo career
that's spanned, you know, decades.
1225
01:27:11,320 --> 01:27:13,000
I think they will be remembered
1226
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:16,080
because they've written great songs
and they are great musicians
1227
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:18,560
and, at the end of the day,
that's what's important.
1228
01:27:31,320 --> 01:27:35,600
I think it's very flattering,
you know, to be part of something
1229
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:38,200
that people call the
soundtrack of their lives.
1230
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:41,080
But they say, you know,
like, "I grew up with your music,
1231
01:27:41,080 --> 01:27:44,120
"and so therefore, you know,
you're pretty special to me."
1232
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:46,560
You know, and that's like, it's...
1233
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:50,480
I mean, that's fantastic for someone
that writes.
1234
01:27:50,480 --> 01:27:54,640
I mean, that kind of almost negates
all the negative stuff.
1235
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:00,360
You can't keep doing exactly
the same thing for ever and ever.
1236
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:03,400
I don't think. And I think
the reason we lasted so long
1237
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:06,320
was those changes, which gave us
the chance to actually
1238
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:08,480
be a bit different each time.
1239
01:28:15,080 --> 01:28:17,600
We just carried on doing
what we'd always done.
1240
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:18,920
We just used to write.
1241
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:21,080
We probably got better at doing
the shorter stuff,
1242
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:22,560
there's no doubt about that.
1243
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:24,960
We always liked to throw in a bit
more sort of thinking
1244
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:26,440
kind of music in there.
1245
01:28:26,440 --> 01:28:29,440
Did long songs, and tried to do a
few things that were slightly
1246
01:28:29,440 --> 01:28:32,440
more... You know, slightly less
predictable, if you like.
1247
01:28:32,440 --> 01:28:34,160
But I mean we just...
1248
01:28:34,160 --> 01:28:37,000
It's a very difficult thing to know,
you just do what you want
1249
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:40,000
at the time with a particular
combination of people you've got.
1250
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:56,280
Never underestimate what difference
you could make or what you could do.
1251
01:28:56,280 --> 01:29:00,360
I've seen other people, you know,
at every stage with everything
1252
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:03,120
I've done, who are smarter and better
than I am,
1253
01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:04,960
and that hasn't deterred me.
1254
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:08,320
So that's what I say to young people
everywhere, you know,
1255
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:11,680
don't limit yourself
or limit your expectations
1256
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:14,440
because if you want to make
a difference,
1257
01:29:14,440 --> 01:29:17,560
if you want to change the world,
it's all there.
1258
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:18,760
The secret?
1259
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:22,840
Well, the music.
Are we being serious for a bit?
1260
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:25,080
For a bit. Yeah. For a bit. OK.
110716
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.