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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:28,029 --> 00:00:30,963 Hilary Barry: It's been a harrowing week in the news, 2 00:00:31,065 --> 00:00:33,799 so now it's something much lighter and more fun. 3 00:00:33,901 --> 00:00:37,368 It's time for New Zealand's favorite pop culture reporter, 4 00:00:37,470 --> 00:00:38,535 David farrier. 5 00:00:43,741 --> 00:00:46,441 David: What do you make of New Zealanders so far? 6 00:00:46,543 --> 00:00:49,710 Me? Uh, I think that they're... They've been nice. 7 00:00:49,812 --> 00:00:51,111 Everyone has been cool so far. 8 00:00:53,582 --> 00:00:55,315 David: What's the main thing you're trying to achieve here? 9 00:00:55,417 --> 00:00:57,784 Because obviously you've created a bit of a... 10 00:00:57,886 --> 00:00:59,251 survival. 11 00:01:01,688 --> 00:01:02,753 He's dead. 12 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,425 - Now we're gonna spin around. - Yeah. 13 00:01:11,828 --> 00:01:13,093 Whoa! Holy! 14 00:01:17,566 --> 00:01:19,732 It's so tiring. Whoa! 15 00:01:22,436 --> 00:01:24,602 David: And what's your nickname that you've got now? 16 00:01:24,937 --> 00:01:26,236 The donkey lady. 17 00:01:27,905 --> 00:01:29,404 Lady: Look out! Oh, look, we're going 18 00:01:29,506 --> 00:01:30,938 - to have a reporter kicked. 19 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:32,172 It's quite a kick. 20 00:01:41,616 --> 00:01:43,082 David: I can't say I've ever interviewed anyone 21 00:01:43,184 --> 00:01:45,250 that looks exactly like you before. 22 00:01:46,253 --> 00:01:47,585 Really? 23 00:02:03,302 --> 00:02:05,769 David: I've made a career out of looking at the weird 24 00:02:05,871 --> 00:02:07,770 - and bizarre side of life. 25 00:02:09,306 --> 00:02:11,973 So when I discovered a strange video online, 26 00:02:12,108 --> 00:02:14,174 I knew I'd found my next story. 27 00:02:16,711 --> 00:02:19,044 Man: It's good. It's good. 28 00:02:22,916 --> 00:02:25,549 David: An American company called Jane o'brien media 29 00:02:25,651 --> 00:02:26,983 was running a monthly event. 30 00:02:29,053 --> 00:02:32,054 Young athletes from anywhere on the planet could apply. 31 00:02:32,156 --> 00:02:34,489 If selected they got free flights to la, 32 00:02:34,624 --> 00:02:38,792 four nights in a really nice hotel and $1500 cash. 33 00:02:40,128 --> 00:02:43,328 It was called competitive endurance tickling. 34 00:02:44,998 --> 00:02:46,197 Man: You're with the cet, 35 00:02:46,332 --> 00:02:48,465 a competitive endurance tickling group we got here. 36 00:02:48,567 --> 00:02:50,867 And, uh, first of all I'd like to give a shout to you, 37 00:02:50,969 --> 00:02:53,235 Jane o'brien media, for making this happen. 38 00:02:53,437 --> 00:02:55,804 - Thanks, Jane. - We all appreciate it. 39 00:03:03,178 --> 00:03:04,377 Fuck off! 40 00:03:09,683 --> 00:03:14,552 Guys! Oh, my god! 41 00:03:17,689 --> 00:03:19,689 David: Their Facebook page was popular, 42 00:03:19,791 --> 00:03:21,757 with thousands of likes. 43 00:03:22,092 --> 00:03:23,825 And with everyone in Adidas gear, 44 00:03:23,927 --> 00:03:26,727 it seemed to be some kind of tickling league. 45 00:03:33,668 --> 00:03:36,669 David: It was one of the strangest sports I'd seen. 46 00:03:36,871 --> 00:03:38,370 Man: No! 47 00:03:41,708 --> 00:03:44,275 David: So, of course, I told Jane o'brien media 48 00:03:44,377 --> 00:03:45,743 I'd like to do an interview. 49 00:03:47,279 --> 00:03:50,679 Instead of getting a yes or no, I got this. 50 00:03:51,281 --> 00:03:52,847 Woman: "To be brutally frank, 51 00:03:52,949 --> 00:03:55,082 association with a homosexual journalist 52 00:03:55,184 --> 00:03:57,284 is not something we will embrace. 53 00:03:57,386 --> 00:04:00,120 We desperately do not want a homosexual participant base 54 00:04:00,222 --> 00:04:02,055 applying for this project. 55 00:04:02,157 --> 00:04:05,124 My concern is that your journalistic style, fan base, 56 00:04:05,226 --> 00:04:07,859 and reputation in your own country. 57 00:04:07,961 --> 00:04:11,429 Regards, Debbie kuhn, Jane o'brien media. " 58 00:04:15,701 --> 00:04:17,467 David: It was a strange response, 59 00:04:17,569 --> 00:04:20,036 especially considering the sport did seem slightly... 60 00:04:21,905 --> 00:04:23,237 Gay. 61 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,575 And over the coming weeks, Debbie and Jane kept e-mailing. 62 00:04:29,677 --> 00:04:31,410 Woman: "The competitive reality tickling 63 00:04:31,512 --> 00:04:32,577 is a passionately 64 00:04:32,579 --> 00:04:36,080 and exclusively heterosexual athletic endurance activity. 65 00:04:36,182 --> 00:04:38,882 We have recently read a googled article about the knowledge 66 00:04:38,984 --> 00:04:40,950 of your living with a homosexual partner 67 00:04:41,052 --> 00:04:42,651 becoming quite a stir in New Zealand. " 68 00:04:42,753 --> 00:04:45,386 "The remainder of the globe does not in all corners 69 00:04:45,488 --> 00:04:47,788 share some of the more liberal acceptance of your lifestyle. " 70 00:04:47,890 --> 00:04:50,423 "To me anything concerning homosexuality 71 00:04:50,525 --> 00:04:52,324 is at best an objective disorder. " 72 00:04:52,426 --> 00:04:55,560 "Shame on you!" "Little gay kiwis. " "Faggot. " 73 00:04:59,265 --> 00:05:01,798 David: It was hard to take the insults seriously, 74 00:05:01,900 --> 00:05:03,766 given what Jane was producing. 75 00:05:05,336 --> 00:05:08,637 If anything, it made me more curious than ever. 76 00:05:11,441 --> 00:05:13,073 Woman: Your call has been forwarded 77 00:05:13,175 --> 00:05:16,476 to the voicemail for Jane o'brien media. 78 00:05:21,982 --> 00:05:22,848 David: With no one picking up the phone, 79 00:05:22,950 --> 00:05:25,250 I got my geeky friend Dylan to do some digging 80 00:05:25,352 --> 00:05:27,352 into this mysterious company 81 00:05:27,454 --> 00:05:29,420 and this overly aggressive woman. 82 00:05:29,522 --> 00:05:32,122 Dylan: So, I'm going to just scroll up. So here we go. 83 00:05:32,224 --> 00:05:33,856 So, it's janeobrienmedia. Com. 84 00:05:33,958 --> 00:05:35,691 It's registered to nederdietsen. 85 00:05:35,793 --> 00:05:38,126 David: He discovered that while Jane o'brien media 86 00:05:38,228 --> 00:05:40,528 seemed to be operated out of America, 87 00:05:40,630 --> 00:05:44,198 it was owned by a company in Germany called nederdietsen, 88 00:05:44,300 --> 00:05:49,102 which owned nearly 300 domain names all related to tickling. 89 00:05:53,575 --> 00:05:56,108 This tickling wormhole was getting deeper, 90 00:05:56,210 --> 00:05:59,177 so Dylan and I blogged about what we'd found. 91 00:06:14,290 --> 00:06:15,956 Man: So, the pay's good. 92 00:06:16,058 --> 00:06:19,325 Man: What? Okay, hold on. 93 00:06:19,427 --> 00:06:21,627 David: Our story got a lot of attention, 94 00:06:21,729 --> 00:06:23,795 being picked up on websites like reddit 95 00:06:23,797 --> 00:06:25,696 and an American podcast. 96 00:06:25,798 --> 00:06:27,664 - Man 1: Back up. Back up. - Man 2: When I say 97 00:06:27,766 --> 00:06:29,999 competitive tickling, what do you think I'm talking about? 98 00:06:30,101 --> 00:06:32,401 Man 1: I mean, I think you're talking about, uh, 99 00:06:32,503 --> 00:06:34,469 some sort of organized sport... 100 00:06:34,571 --> 00:06:36,237 - man 2: Yeah. - ... Of tickling. 101 00:06:36,339 --> 00:06:38,305 Man 2: Basically what happened was this kind of blew up 102 00:06:38,407 --> 00:06:41,975 on the Internet this week, because a dude in New Zealand, 103 00:06:42,077 --> 00:06:47,146 a reporter, like, happened across this Facebook page. 104 00:06:47,281 --> 00:06:49,014 Man 1: But is it just for fun? They just... 105 00:06:49,116 --> 00:06:50,348 I mean, obviously it's just for fun? 106 00:06:50,450 --> 00:06:51,582 Man 2: Is it just for fun? 107 00:06:51,684 --> 00:06:52,749 - It's tickling. 108 00:06:52,751 --> 00:06:54,817 Man 1: Sorry, I don't think that question's ever been asked 109 00:06:54,819 --> 00:06:57,352 about tickling before. It's like a martian question 110 00:06:57,454 --> 00:06:59,587 - about tickling. - "Is it for fun?" 111 00:07:00,323 --> 00:07:03,357 David: People were so interested by what we discovered, 112 00:07:03,459 --> 00:07:05,859 Dylan and I decided to make a documentary 113 00:07:05,961 --> 00:07:08,528 about this utterly bizarre subject. 114 00:07:25,879 --> 00:07:26,978 Two weeks later, 115 00:07:26,980 --> 00:07:29,347 we heard from Jane o'brien's New York attorney, 116 00:07:29,449 --> 00:07:31,015 Romeo salta. 117 00:07:32,885 --> 00:07:34,885 He'd recently made headlines in a case 118 00:07:34,953 --> 00:07:36,552 involving a gay porn star 119 00:07:36,654 --> 00:07:37,719 who chopped a man up 120 00:07:37,721 --> 00:07:40,555 and mailed his body parts to some politicians. 121 00:07:41,291 --> 00:07:44,225 Things certainly weren't getting any less weird. 122 00:07:45,394 --> 00:07:49,462 His letter told us to stop what we were doing, or else. 123 00:07:53,934 --> 00:07:57,001 Soon we were receiving e-mails from salta telling us 124 00:07:57,103 --> 00:08:00,337 that legal action had been filed in the us. 125 00:08:06,311 --> 00:08:08,978 I had no money to hire a New Zealand lawyer, 126 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,080 let alone face the American justice system. 127 00:08:13,817 --> 00:08:17,418 Then, to top it all off, Jane o'brien media told us 128 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,721 they were flying three people across the world from New York 129 00:08:20,823 --> 00:08:22,722 to New Zealand to see us. 130 00:08:23,357 --> 00:08:26,424 They're clearly serious about stopping this documentary. 131 00:08:39,336 --> 00:08:42,403 Jane wouldn't tell us what flight they were arriving on, 132 00:08:42,505 --> 00:08:44,271 but she did tell us the day. 133 00:08:44,373 --> 00:08:47,940 So from 05:00 am, I waited at arrivals. 134 00:08:49,777 --> 00:08:51,443 Not sure what to expect, 135 00:08:51,611 --> 00:08:53,711 I figured I'd disarm the situation 136 00:08:53,813 --> 00:08:55,679 with a rainbow-colored sign. 137 00:09:06,858 --> 00:09:08,090 David: How's it going? 138 00:09:10,127 --> 00:09:12,127 I thought I'd make up a good welcoming sign. 139 00:09:12,496 --> 00:09:13,928 Good. How are you, sir? 140 00:09:15,331 --> 00:09:17,731 That's all right. I thought I'd arrive. How was the flight? 141 00:09:18,467 --> 00:09:20,800 Oh, good. Air New Zealand? 142 00:09:21,335 --> 00:09:23,802 Oh, good. Hey, guys. 143 00:09:24,971 --> 00:09:28,405 Kevin, nice to meet you, sir. David. Nice to meet you. 144 00:09:32,477 --> 00:09:35,211 You can. I gift this to you. 145 00:09:35,313 --> 00:09:37,279 As a sign, I thought it was pretty good. 146 00:09:39,249 --> 00:09:41,148 Well, look, let's line up a time to meet this week. 147 00:09:41,350 --> 00:09:44,417 Marko: 148 00:09:44,552 --> 00:09:45,617 David: Tomorrow? 149 00:09:45,719 --> 00:09:46,784 - Adam: - Marko: 150 00:09:46,886 --> 00:09:48,385 David: Okay, tomorrow works well. 151 00:09:48,487 --> 00:09:50,720 - Kevin: - Marko: 152 00:09:50,822 --> 00:09:53,422 David: Oh, that's okay. It's the New Zealand hospitality. 153 00:09:54,892 --> 00:09:56,424 - David: You can get me there. - Kevin: 154 00:09:57,727 --> 00:10:00,593 David: Yeah, we're just rolling from the beginning. Yeah, yeah. 155 00:10:01,929 --> 00:10:03,828 Okay. We've got a thing in New Zealand, 156 00:10:03,930 --> 00:10:06,230 we're okay to film in public spaces. 157 00:10:06,899 --> 00:10:09,065 So I'm just following the journey. 158 00:10:14,338 --> 00:10:16,504 Okay, all right. Well, we're... 159 00:10:16,672 --> 00:10:18,838 Adam: 160 00:10:19,006 --> 00:10:20,071 It's not... 161 00:10:20,073 --> 00:10:22,306 David: Okay. Well, I mean, we're shooting a documentary, 162 00:10:22,408 --> 00:10:24,908 so we'll keep... it's a... 163 00:10:25,677 --> 00:10:26,776 David: Mm. 164 00:10:30,047 --> 00:10:31,112 David: Okay. 165 00:10:31,114 --> 00:10:34,448 Okay. We're okay to film in public spaces in New Zealand, 166 00:10:34,550 --> 00:10:36,783 so we're doing that here. 167 00:10:37,719 --> 00:10:39,185 David: All right, we'll see you soon. 168 00:10:39,287 --> 00:10:40,653 - Marko: - David: Okay, sounds good. 169 00:10:41,756 --> 00:10:42,921 All right, see you soon. 170 00:10:44,457 --> 00:10:45,989 David: No worries. We'll talk soon. 171 00:11:00,270 --> 00:11:01,135 Marko: 172 00:11:01,137 --> 00:11:04,271 David: Hey, Marko. It's Dave farrier. How are you? 173 00:11:06,275 --> 00:11:08,608 Yeah, good. How are you settling into Auckland? 174 00:11:22,156 --> 00:11:24,022 Okay. No, that sounds good to me, I think. 175 00:11:24,124 --> 00:11:27,792 Just, Dylan and I both talked, and we just weren't confident, 176 00:11:27,894 --> 00:11:29,193 or didn't think it was a good idea 177 00:11:29,428 --> 00:11:31,994 just to go straight to a room. Maybe it's a cultural thing. 178 00:11:33,764 --> 00:11:35,530 But a conference room 179 00:11:35,632 --> 00:11:37,298 - um, of your choosing, - Marko: Okay. 180 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,467 Whether it's at the Hilton or elsewhere, is absolutely fine. 181 00:11:43,505 --> 00:11:46,506 Marko: 182 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:01,686 Marko: And, um... 183 00:12:20,306 --> 00:12:21,505 David: 184 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,940 Marko: 185 00:12:38,489 --> 00:12:41,289 Dylan: 186 00:12:43,693 --> 00:12:45,759 Marko: 187 00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:57,036 Dylan: 188 00:12:57,171 --> 00:12:58,370 Kevin: 189 00:12:58,472 --> 00:13:00,538 Dylan: 190 00:13:01,807 --> 00:13:02,605 Kevin: 191 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,240 Dylan: 192 00:13:05,342 --> 00:13:10,110 Kevin: 193 00:13:12,247 --> 00:13:13,112 David: Sure. 194 00:13:13,214 --> 00:13:16,081 Dylan: 195 00:13:16,183 --> 00:13:20,585 David: 196 00:13:30,163 --> 00:13:32,062 Kevin: 197 00:13:57,619 --> 00:13:59,485 David: Kevin didn't take to Dylan very well 198 00:13:59,587 --> 00:14:01,587 and wants to meet me alone. 199 00:14:02,856 --> 00:14:05,623 I quickly make this covert piece of technology. 200 00:14:06,058 --> 00:14:08,291 A camera in a coffee cup. 201 00:14:12,363 --> 00:14:14,429 Kevin: What's the end game here? What do you get at the end 202 00:14:14,531 --> 00:14:15,930 or even if you get everything you want? 203 00:14:16,032 --> 00:14:19,166 - David: Mm. Mm. - And what are we risking here? 204 00:14:20,102 --> 00:14:24,003 You know, do we really want someone coming after you 205 00:14:24,105 --> 00:14:25,604 with all that money? 206 00:14:26,206 --> 00:14:27,705 I've known a lot of rich people in my life. 207 00:14:27,807 --> 00:14:28,872 I've worked for a lot of them. 208 00:14:28,974 --> 00:14:31,341 They don't work by the same set of rules. 209 00:14:31,443 --> 00:14:33,509 They don't dangle them out of buildings any more, 210 00:14:33,611 --> 00:14:35,444 but they don't have to. 211 00:14:35,546 --> 00:14:38,346 And that's the thing. They start suing, 212 00:14:38,748 --> 00:14:41,682 and you're done halfway through or a quarter of the way through 213 00:14:41,817 --> 00:14:44,050 because it costs so much to defend yourself. 214 00:14:44,118 --> 00:14:45,851 David: So unless... Essentially, I mean, 215 00:14:45,986 --> 00:14:48,820 unless we stop the doco, we're gonna be fucked. 216 00:14:49,088 --> 00:14:50,555 Really. It seems that's what it comes down to. 217 00:14:50,690 --> 00:14:52,823 Kevin: I'm not gonna use those words directly, 218 00:14:52,925 --> 00:14:55,225 because that wouldn't be prudent. 219 00:14:55,327 --> 00:14:58,328 But... let me rephrase. Unless you stopped... 220 00:14:58,430 --> 00:15:01,164 Unless we can figure out a way to ameliorate that situation, 221 00:15:01,266 --> 00:15:03,099 we all are. 222 00:15:09,373 --> 00:15:12,607 David: Facing lawsuits and a company with deep pockets, 223 00:15:12,709 --> 00:15:15,142 I wondered if we should just walk away. 224 00:15:18,380 --> 00:15:20,146 But Dylan was part of this now 225 00:15:20,248 --> 00:15:23,148 and didn't want to give in to a bunch of bullies. 226 00:15:24,251 --> 00:15:26,651 Kevin: Dylan wants to pursue this on his own? 227 00:15:27,053 --> 00:15:30,454 David: Uh, I gather from what he's saying, yeah. 228 00:15:30,756 --> 00:15:33,523 Kevin: Okay. Um, if Dylan wants to do that, 229 00:15:33,625 --> 00:15:35,958 Dylan does... Dylan will do that. 230 00:15:36,060 --> 00:15:39,494 If you don't want to do that, then just walk away from it. 231 00:15:40,096 --> 00:15:41,495 David: Yeah. 232 00:15:41,797 --> 00:15:45,130 Kevin: And I will... Dylan will be dealt with accordingly. 233 00:15:45,799 --> 00:15:48,099 How was school? 234 00:15:48,201 --> 00:15:51,268 Marko: The main thing, David, you know, that I wanted to tell you is that 235 00:15:51,403 --> 00:15:52,802 I think that you're brilliant. 236 00:15:52,904 --> 00:15:54,803 And that you have a great career. 237 00:15:54,905 --> 00:15:57,338 So I was really, really happy to find out 238 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,541 that you wanted just to distance yourself from it. 239 00:16:00,643 --> 00:16:05,312 And I don't understand why Dylan would not want to. 240 00:16:07,082 --> 00:16:08,548 What I'm worried about too, I know Kevin says, 241 00:16:08,650 --> 00:16:10,116 "well, if he wants to go ahead with it, 242 00:16:11,552 --> 00:16:12,284 let him go ahead with it. " 243 00:16:12,285 --> 00:16:13,017 But he'll become a real target, and believe me, 244 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:14,686 it will be really ugly for him. 245 00:16:14,788 --> 00:16:16,354 And I would... I would hate to see that too, 246 00:16:16,489 --> 00:16:17,721 because I know he has a family 247 00:16:17,723 --> 00:16:22,225 and, you know, he's probably, uh, a good bloke down deep. 248 00:16:33,469 --> 00:16:35,902 David: I've never heard threats like this in my life, 249 00:16:36,237 --> 00:16:38,737 and all of this over some tickling! 250 00:16:39,639 --> 00:16:42,506 Kevin and Marko fly back to America. 251 00:16:43,408 --> 00:16:46,642 And a few days later, Dylan and I follow. 252 00:16:47,678 --> 00:16:50,245 Something about bullies with way too much money 253 00:16:50,347 --> 00:16:52,313 has convinced me I shouldn't drop it. 254 00:16:52,848 --> 00:16:56,582 Plus, we think there's a competitive tickling shoot happening this week. 255 00:16:58,919 --> 00:17:01,986 We've reached out to nearly a hundred boys in the videos, 256 00:17:02,254 --> 00:17:04,587 but they all seem too nervous to talk. 257 00:17:10,093 --> 00:17:12,993 Finally tj agrees to meet us. 258 00:17:16,598 --> 00:17:19,498 We met Kevin Clarke downtown la somewhere. 259 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,667 I can't remember exactly where it was at, but it was a studio. 260 00:17:24,337 --> 00:17:26,003 He seemed pretty normal at the time. 261 00:17:27,306 --> 00:17:29,572 My first impression of him, you know, he was just, like, 262 00:17:30,341 --> 00:17:31,840 kind of... Kind of a little weird. 263 00:17:34,277 --> 00:17:35,576 You know, I was young at the time, 264 00:17:35,678 --> 00:17:36,777 didn't think nothing of it, 265 00:17:36,779 --> 00:17:38,912 and I was like, "cool. " You know, $2000 or whatever, 266 00:17:39,014 --> 00:17:40,346 "yeah. It's gonna be cool. " 267 00:17:44,718 --> 00:17:46,250 It was actually a hard time for my family. 268 00:17:46,252 --> 00:17:50,187 A family member of mine was going through cancer, and money was tight at the household. 269 00:17:50,289 --> 00:17:53,690 So I was a little bit desperate at the time as well for money, working on the side, 270 00:17:53,792 --> 00:17:55,691 and doing what I can. So when i heard this dollar sign, 271 00:17:55,793 --> 00:17:57,726 I was like, "yeah," you know, "I'll definitely do that. " 272 00:17:59,796 --> 00:18:01,362 And then I went inside 273 00:18:01,464 --> 00:18:03,764 and noticed that it was all guys in there. 274 00:18:05,334 --> 00:18:08,401 And that's when I was like, "oh, dang!" Like... 275 00:18:11,639 --> 00:18:13,605 And I didn't know I was gonna get tied down. 276 00:18:14,207 --> 00:18:16,540 I had no idea what it'd be for. 277 00:18:16,642 --> 00:18:18,642 Honestly, I was like, "okay, what?" 278 00:18:20,245 --> 00:18:23,145 At that point I was like, "all right, you know what? It's already going down. 279 00:18:23,247 --> 00:18:24,613 I don't really know what it's for, 280 00:18:24,715 --> 00:18:26,080 but hopefully it never gets out. " 281 00:18:46,732 --> 00:18:48,264 No, no, no. Not any fuckin'... 282 00:18:48,366 --> 00:18:52,100 Ah! Fuck! That actually tickles, dude. 283 00:18:55,071 --> 00:18:58,939 Ah! Fuck! 284 00:18:59,041 --> 00:19:02,108 Being violated on so many different levels right now. 285 00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:05,177 There was other athletes. There was mma guys. 286 00:19:05,279 --> 00:19:06,611 There was a bodybuilder, 287 00:19:06,746 --> 00:19:09,780 and then there was a couple of actors, normal actors. 288 00:19:09,882 --> 00:19:11,348 I've seen some of them on commercials, 289 00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:13,616 TV commercials. Normal guys. 290 00:19:13,718 --> 00:19:16,150 Like, completely normal people. 291 00:19:18,053 --> 00:19:20,420 Get the fuck off my feet! 292 00:19:20,522 --> 00:19:21,988 It was a torture project. 293 00:19:22,090 --> 00:19:24,490 That's what I believe Kevin Clarke told me. 294 00:19:24,592 --> 00:19:28,593 There was something to do with even a military tactic, or something like that. 295 00:19:28,695 --> 00:19:30,361 He was gonna do... 296 00:19:30,563 --> 00:19:32,930 I think he said Jane was doing a project 297 00:19:33,032 --> 00:19:35,966 on using tickling as a military tactic. 298 00:19:36,068 --> 00:19:37,167 And at that point, I... 299 00:19:37,269 --> 00:19:39,168 I knew it was complete bullshit, you know? 300 00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:41,270 I was like, "okay, the military is gonna use tickling 301 00:19:41,372 --> 00:19:43,505 as a torture tactic?" 302 00:19:43,607 --> 00:19:45,873 Fuck! 303 00:19:48,510 --> 00:19:52,144 David: When did the video come back to get you? 304 00:19:53,447 --> 00:19:56,381 About a year, maybe a little more, ago. 305 00:20:05,724 --> 00:20:07,290 I would Google myself once in a while, 306 00:20:07,392 --> 00:20:08,491 to read old articles 307 00:20:08,493 --> 00:20:10,659 or see what teams might have listed me in an article 308 00:20:10,761 --> 00:20:11,826 or try-outs. 309 00:20:16,665 --> 00:20:20,133 And to my surprise, a video was on YouTube. 310 00:20:20,235 --> 00:20:24,303 Hello. I'm tj, and I'm here on a tickling competition. 311 00:20:24,405 --> 00:20:26,872 And, uh, first question is: "Are you ticklish?" 312 00:20:26,974 --> 00:20:29,074 Well, obviously I'm ticklish if I'm here, so, 313 00:20:29,176 --> 00:20:30,575 that's kind of a silly question. But, uh... 314 00:20:30,677 --> 00:20:33,077 It was just me sitting in front of the camera 315 00:20:33,179 --> 00:20:35,879 talking about the, uh, tickling process. 316 00:20:35,981 --> 00:20:38,348 Just weird things. And so I was like, "okay, it's not that bad. " 317 00:20:39,417 --> 00:20:41,350 "When you are asked, 'are you ticklish?' 318 00:20:41,452 --> 00:20:43,752 how do you normally respond and why?" 319 00:20:44,121 --> 00:20:47,689 Normally, I say, "no, I'm not ticklish. " 320 00:20:49,659 --> 00:20:52,993 So I emailed Jane and asked her to take the video down. 321 00:20:56,832 --> 00:20:59,165 She didn't ever reply. 322 00:20:59,267 --> 00:21:01,600 So I took the matters into my own hands, 323 00:21:01,768 --> 00:21:03,667 and I, uh, told YouTube that 324 00:21:03,769 --> 00:21:05,869 uh, they're illegally using my name. 325 00:21:09,341 --> 00:21:13,109 So YouTube took the video down. That's when it all started. 326 00:21:17,447 --> 00:21:19,113 Woman: "Now, I am laughing. " 327 00:21:20,349 --> 00:21:22,716 "I don't think you've grasped the magnitude 328 00:21:22,818 --> 00:21:24,384 of what you have provoked. " 329 00:21:24,886 --> 00:21:27,453 "I'm interested to see how you handle the fallout. 330 00:21:27,555 --> 00:21:32,123 So far, badly. " "Regards, Debbie j. Kuhn. " 331 00:21:32,225 --> 00:21:35,092 That's when this Deborah person popped into my life. 332 00:21:35,194 --> 00:21:38,329 I mean, just all hell broke loose. 333 00:21:41,434 --> 00:21:45,669 Every kind of video search you can find, it was up there. 334 00:21:47,472 --> 00:21:49,305 And then it pops up in my emails, 335 00:21:49,407 --> 00:21:51,340 and then it pops up more on YouTube, 336 00:21:51,842 --> 00:21:53,308 and it just starts appearing everywhere. 337 00:21:53,410 --> 00:21:54,742 This video... Just, all of them. 338 00:21:54,844 --> 00:21:56,243 All of them start blowing up. 339 00:22:05,819 --> 00:22:07,185 And there was threats. It said, "watch out! 340 00:22:07,287 --> 00:22:08,419 Your family better watch out 341 00:22:08,621 --> 00:22:10,487 because we're gonna put your last name to shame. 342 00:22:10,589 --> 00:22:13,056 Any time you search your last name, it's gonna pop up. " 343 00:22:13,158 --> 00:22:14,891 Like, direct threats. 344 00:22:17,962 --> 00:22:19,261 They ended up making a website, 345 00:22:19,329 --> 00:22:20,761 putting my personal information: 346 00:22:20,863 --> 00:22:22,662 My name, my address, 347 00:22:22,797 --> 00:22:25,530 my personal phone number, my email address, 348 00:22:26,533 --> 00:22:28,499 all with just dumb lies. 349 00:22:31,537 --> 00:22:34,571 Then Debbie kuhn starts going off on me left and right, 350 00:22:34,673 --> 00:22:37,073 sending emails to the high school that I coach at. 351 00:22:37,608 --> 00:22:40,609 Woman: "I have additional information as a past employer. 352 00:22:40,711 --> 00:22:42,544 You don't want this guy in your league. 353 00:22:42,646 --> 00:22:45,380 Can you afford the distraction, the press, 354 00:22:45,482 --> 00:22:48,850 with an outed gay guy having a male tickling fetish, 355 00:22:48,952 --> 00:22:50,952 in which he likes to tickle and be tickled 356 00:22:51,054 --> 00:22:54,121 by tied-up other gay athletes and bodybuilders?" 357 00:22:54,223 --> 00:22:56,022 False accusations, saying I'm a drug addict 358 00:22:56,124 --> 00:22:58,691 and I was a child molester and I'm gay, and this and that, 359 00:22:58,793 --> 00:23:00,893 which none of those things have ever been true. 360 00:23:17,310 --> 00:23:19,076 I've always been very proud. 361 00:23:19,178 --> 00:23:20,911 The way I walk around, I'm proud of who I am. 362 00:23:21,013 --> 00:23:22,312 You know what I mean? So to speak. 363 00:23:22,414 --> 00:23:23,813 I'm confident in myself as an athlete, 364 00:23:23,915 --> 00:23:25,281 as a person, as a player. 365 00:23:26,584 --> 00:23:27,883 But when I'd go to try-outs, 366 00:23:27,985 --> 00:23:29,918 the first thing I would think about is, 367 00:23:30,020 --> 00:23:32,320 "well, I wonder if these coaches have looked up that video?" 368 00:23:34,424 --> 00:23:35,923 And it's happened. It has happened. 369 00:23:36,025 --> 00:23:37,724 I've been released from football teams. 370 00:23:37,826 --> 00:23:39,158 They've told me, uh, 371 00:23:39,260 --> 00:23:41,960 that I'm the best player on that team at that position, 372 00:23:42,095 --> 00:23:44,895 but because it is a distraction for the media, 373 00:23:44,997 --> 00:23:45,996 they don't need that attention 374 00:23:45,998 --> 00:23:48,665 and they'll go with somebody else 'cause they don't feel like explaining it. 375 00:23:48,667 --> 00:23:53,102 You know, and I've actually dealt with a lot of things because of it. 376 00:23:54,605 --> 00:23:57,606 It's cost me money, it's cost me jobs, it's caused me harassment, 377 00:23:57,708 --> 00:24:00,842 which is exactly what Debbie kuhn and Jane o'brien wanted. 378 00:24:00,944 --> 00:24:03,744 So, I mean, more or less in that aspect, they've won. 379 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,454 David: It's obvious we're not the only ones being harassed 380 00:24:16,556 --> 00:24:18,255 by Jane o'brien media. 381 00:24:18,357 --> 00:24:21,858 And there are so many websites made up like tj's 382 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,659 which seem to exist purely 383 00:24:23,761 --> 00:24:25,794 to shame the guys who've been tickled. 384 00:24:29,032 --> 00:24:32,465 What goes on at these shoots, and why is she so aggressive? 385 00:24:34,702 --> 00:24:36,268 Dylan's been doing some research, 386 00:24:36,370 --> 00:24:39,137 and he thinks he knows where the next shoot is happening. 387 00:24:41,274 --> 00:24:43,641 We stake out the studio, hoping to find out 388 00:24:43,743 --> 00:24:46,810 how a competitive tickling shoot goes down. 389 00:24:47,779 --> 00:24:49,011 Dominic: Okay, car. 390 00:24:55,818 --> 00:24:57,651 And another car. Two cars. 391 00:24:57,986 --> 00:24:59,452 David: Two cars. 392 00:25:05,326 --> 00:25:06,692 Dominic: Can you see what the car's doing? 393 00:25:06,794 --> 00:25:07,993 I've lost him. 394 00:25:12,599 --> 00:25:14,699 - Dominic: Who's that guy? - David: Oh, that's Marko. 395 00:25:17,437 --> 00:25:20,738 Dylan: Oh, yeah. And we've got four guys going in so far. 396 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,206 Dominic: Four guys. 397 00:25:26,812 --> 00:25:28,344 Dylan: That's the guy from New Zealand. 398 00:25:28,446 --> 00:25:30,045 David: Yep, there's Kevin. 399 00:25:51,967 --> 00:25:54,667 David: We could hear laughter coming out of the vents. 400 00:25:58,771 --> 00:26:00,937 It went on for hours, 401 00:26:02,674 --> 00:26:05,241 the boys occasionally taking breaks. 402 00:26:17,621 --> 00:26:19,621 You know, this is actually fucking creepy as fuck. 403 00:26:19,723 --> 00:26:21,689 Dylan: Like, this feels to me like a pep talk. 404 00:26:21,824 --> 00:26:22,889 Dominic: Yeah. 405 00:26:24,659 --> 00:26:25,958 David: As the day wraps up, 406 00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:28,293 I want to give Kevin one last chance 407 00:26:28,395 --> 00:26:30,361 to talk about what's going on. 408 00:26:31,964 --> 00:26:33,296 With pending lawsuits, 409 00:26:33,398 --> 00:26:36,799 I'm cautious and don't want to storm into the studio. 410 00:26:39,003 --> 00:26:40,135 David: They haven't locked the door. 411 00:26:40,237 --> 00:26:41,802 Dylan: I think we go. 412 00:26:44,573 --> 00:26:46,105 All right. Okay, let's go. 413 00:26:46,841 --> 00:26:48,907 - David: We're good? - Dominic: Yep, we're good. 414 00:26:59,386 --> 00:27:00,551 Dominic: Come this way. 415 00:27:02,054 --> 00:27:04,754 David: Here we go. We've been spotted. 416 00:27:14,565 --> 00:27:18,300 Hello, Marko. Hey, guys. 417 00:27:27,344 --> 00:27:28,609 Adam, how's it going? 418 00:27:28,711 --> 00:27:30,343 Adam: 419 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,646 Hello, sir. 420 00:27:33,848 --> 00:27:35,414 Kevin: 421 00:27:35,916 --> 00:27:37,148 We're not welcome here? 422 00:27:40,686 --> 00:27:42,352 All right. Well, we'll head off. 423 00:27:43,355 --> 00:27:44,854 You don't want to do any final chats or anything? 424 00:27:44,956 --> 00:27:46,155 Last opportunity. 425 00:27:51,295 --> 00:27:52,627 That's all we can do. 426 00:28:00,269 --> 00:28:02,302 Turn right on bellevue Avenue, 427 00:28:02,404 --> 00:28:04,170 then take the first right. 428 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,508 I think... yeah, uh, after New Zealand and that, 429 00:28:09,610 --> 00:28:12,777 I think it's safe to say that we don't... 430 00:28:12,879 --> 00:28:15,312 We don't have an interview with Kevin or Marko. 431 00:28:15,981 --> 00:28:17,280 And we certainly weren't getting 432 00:28:17,382 --> 00:28:20,282 any more of the competitors to talk on camera. 433 00:28:20,384 --> 00:28:22,217 They were all too terrified, 434 00:28:22,319 --> 00:28:26,220 hoping if they stayed quiet, the harassment would go away. 435 00:28:28,490 --> 00:28:30,823 Dylan: I mean, are we making the whole thing worse for everyone 436 00:28:30,925 --> 00:28:32,524 just by even being here? 437 00:28:32,626 --> 00:28:34,359 David: Yeah. I think it's possible. 438 00:28:34,461 --> 00:28:37,528 I worry that we make it worse for some people who... 439 00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:39,496 Who've gotten through the worst of it, you know? 440 00:28:39,598 --> 00:28:40,663 Dylan: Mm. 441 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,980 David: Jane o'brien clearly isn't being honest 442 00:29:00,082 --> 00:29:01,648 about what the videos are for. 443 00:29:02,017 --> 00:29:04,417 And I'm convinced that despite the Adidas gear, 444 00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:06,986 it's not a real sport. 445 00:29:11,692 --> 00:29:13,491 I've tracked down a man in Florida 446 00:29:13,593 --> 00:29:15,693 who also makes tickling videos, 447 00:29:15,795 --> 00:29:19,396 but, unlike Jane, is more than happy to talk about it. 448 00:29:49,060 --> 00:29:52,193 Richard: People ask me about what is the appeal of tickling? 449 00:29:53,663 --> 00:29:56,363 It's kind of like the whips and chains, you know, 450 00:29:56,465 --> 00:29:59,065 bondage sort of thing, where somebody's getting flogged. 451 00:29:59,167 --> 00:30:02,601 But it's just really brought down a level, you know? 452 00:30:02,703 --> 00:30:04,402 It's like kind of a sadistic 453 00:30:04,504 --> 00:30:06,871 exerting your will on someone else, 454 00:30:06,973 --> 00:30:09,073 and having them do something out of their control 455 00:30:09,175 --> 00:30:11,808 like laughing without being able to get away, 456 00:30:12,011 --> 00:30:15,144 as if it's, uh, tickle torture to them. 457 00:30:16,514 --> 00:30:18,080 David: And a lot of people don't seem to know 458 00:30:18,182 --> 00:30:19,915 about the tickling fetish. 459 00:30:20,017 --> 00:30:21,716 Do you think it's a little bit more unknown? 460 00:30:21,818 --> 00:30:23,851 Oh, totally. Yeah, completely. 461 00:30:23,953 --> 00:30:26,520 'Cause most people, you know, know about a foot fetish, 462 00:30:27,356 --> 00:30:28,988 um, but tickling? 463 00:30:29,090 --> 00:30:31,356 Most people are like, "oh, wow. Is that a thing?" 464 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:39,563 It was in 1999. I had just gotten out of grad school, 465 00:30:41,199 --> 00:30:43,032 you know, so I just got a video camera, 466 00:30:43,134 --> 00:30:44,733 put together a little business plan, 467 00:30:45,869 --> 00:30:46,934 talked to one of my friends 468 00:30:46,936 --> 00:30:49,069 and he financed me, when I started the site, 469 00:30:49,171 --> 00:30:51,570 I think for $6000 or $7000. 470 00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:55,540 It got pretty much an immediate response. 471 00:31:08,987 --> 00:31:10,186 I was making enough after a year 472 00:31:10,288 --> 00:31:12,221 to quit my job and do it full-time. 473 00:31:16,059 --> 00:31:17,191 David: So this is it? 474 00:31:17,493 --> 00:31:19,025 - This is it. - This is the studio. 475 00:31:19,127 --> 00:31:21,093 - Mm-hm. - The chair. 476 00:31:22,329 --> 00:31:25,129 And then the changing room, bathroom. 477 00:31:25,331 --> 00:31:27,964 And so, this whole place is purely for the tickling? 478 00:31:28,066 --> 00:31:29,231 Yes. 479 00:31:33,203 --> 00:31:35,203 David: Oh, so you've got a few different spaces, right? 480 00:31:35,305 --> 00:31:36,404 Richard: Yeah, yeah. 481 00:31:36,506 --> 00:31:38,138 I used to do all this out of my house. 482 00:31:38,306 --> 00:31:39,204 David: Yeah. 483 00:31:39,206 --> 00:31:41,773 And then it was, you know, a parade of people coming in, 484 00:31:41,875 --> 00:31:44,642 do all this, have to clean up. 485 00:31:44,744 --> 00:31:47,611 You know, have to clean it up before a shoot. 486 00:31:47,713 --> 00:31:50,280 And this way I can walk away. 487 00:31:50,382 --> 00:31:51,447 Yeah, this is great. 488 00:31:51,549 --> 00:31:52,614 Like, "I'm tired. Going home. " 489 00:31:52,716 --> 00:31:53,781 David: You're done. 490 00:31:53,783 --> 00:31:55,716 Well, this is work, right? It's like work, home. 491 00:31:55,818 --> 00:31:57,250 Richard: Mm-hm. Exactly. 492 00:31:57,819 --> 00:32:00,419 Have you done stuff like this before for anyone else? 493 00:32:00,521 --> 00:32:02,220 Or this sort of a unique thing for you? 494 00:32:02,322 --> 00:32:03,721 Uh, unique thing. 495 00:32:03,823 --> 00:32:06,290 I never worked for a tickling site before. 496 00:32:06,392 --> 00:32:07,424 - Okay. - Man: No. 497 00:32:07,426 --> 00:32:09,426 David: And what did you first think when you got the pitch? 498 00:32:09,428 --> 00:32:11,327 Man: I mean, I laughed about it. 499 00:32:11,429 --> 00:32:13,228 I'm like, this can't be really serious, 500 00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:14,962 like, people really can't... 501 00:32:15,064 --> 00:32:17,798 Enjoy watching this or getting it done. 502 00:32:18,433 --> 00:32:19,598 But, um, I said, "why not?" 503 00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:21,166 You know, I'm more of like the risk-taker. 504 00:32:21,268 --> 00:32:24,002 I'd rather say I did something than didn't do something. 505 00:32:24,104 --> 00:32:25,169 So I came down, 506 00:32:27,339 --> 00:32:28,455 really was kind of nervous, didn't know what to expect. 507 00:32:28,456 --> 00:32:29,572 And then... But Richard put me at ease, 508 00:32:29,674 --> 00:32:31,607 and once you're trapped in you're there. 509 00:32:31,709 --> 00:32:34,476 So, I mean, you might as well enjoy it. 510 00:32:34,678 --> 00:32:35,910 All right. 511 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,114 - Richard: Okay, ready? - I think you're... 512 00:32:42,584 --> 00:32:43,649 Man: Take it easy on me today. 513 00:32:43,784 --> 00:32:44,983 Richard: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 514 00:32:45,085 --> 00:32:46,150 Man: That's good. 515 00:32:51,389 --> 00:32:53,255 - Got to enjoy my freedom now. - Richard: Yeah. 516 00:32:53,690 --> 00:32:55,756 - Because I cannot. - Richard: Wave goodbye. 517 00:32:55,891 --> 00:32:57,490 I am not getting out. 518 00:32:58,693 --> 00:33:00,124 Oh, shit. 519 00:33:02,561 --> 00:33:05,495 The world of tickling. 520 00:33:10,366 --> 00:33:11,932 So, catch your breath. 521 00:33:14,269 --> 00:33:16,435 - Breath caught. - Okay. 522 00:33:25,978 --> 00:33:28,111 All right. 523 00:33:28,213 --> 00:33:29,879 Now tell everybody what a tough guy you are. 524 00:33:33,150 --> 00:33:38,820 Just go. 525 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:53,866 Stop. 526 00:34:02,108 --> 00:34:03,674 Oh, my gosh. 527 00:34:04,309 --> 00:34:06,008 I hate this. 528 00:34:50,152 --> 00:34:51,751 David: So when did you realize 529 00:34:51,853 --> 00:34:56,922 that you found tickling to be an erotic thing? 530 00:34:57,791 --> 00:34:59,257 Richard: I was very young, 531 00:34:59,392 --> 00:35:04,094 you know, probably five or six. You know, very, very young. 532 00:35:08,566 --> 00:35:13,534 You see something in a cartoon or a magazine that, you know, 533 00:35:13,636 --> 00:35:15,702 kind of interests you as a little kid, 534 00:35:15,804 --> 00:35:17,570 and for me it would be, you know, like, 535 00:35:17,672 --> 00:35:20,572 cartoon characters being tickled or tied up or, 536 00:35:20,674 --> 00:35:21,973 you know, that sort of thing. 537 00:35:22,075 --> 00:35:24,742 And it would, you know, fascinate me, 538 00:35:24,844 --> 00:35:27,144 but I had no idea why. 539 00:35:50,268 --> 00:35:52,935 Richard: How do you feel? 540 00:35:53,437 --> 00:35:54,969 I feel tired. 541 00:35:55,071 --> 00:35:57,337 - I feel sweaty. - Can I get you some water? 542 00:35:57,439 --> 00:36:02,641 Yeah, water would probably work. 543 00:36:03,877 --> 00:36:06,244 Richard: I started to become comfortable with this, uh, 544 00:36:06,379 --> 00:36:08,011 fetish and this part of myself, 545 00:36:08,346 --> 00:36:11,246 and started to really realize that it was a part of myself, 546 00:36:11,348 --> 00:36:12,413 when I... 547 00:36:12,515 --> 00:36:14,815 When I got on aol 548 00:36:15,350 --> 00:36:17,283 and then did a search for what I was looking for 549 00:36:17,385 --> 00:36:18,283 and found that, "wow! 550 00:36:20,053 --> 00:36:20,668 There's actually, you know, quite a lot of 551 00:36:20,669 --> 00:36:21,284 other people that are into this. " 552 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,160 At the time, the late '90s, 553 00:36:31,562 --> 00:36:34,863 was, um, somebody that posted on the message boards a lot. 554 00:36:36,099 --> 00:36:39,800 And she said her name was Terri, Terri tickle. 555 00:36:40,135 --> 00:36:45,103 And Terri disisto, she put in what her real name was. 556 00:36:46,806 --> 00:36:48,705 She always had a picture of herself. 557 00:36:48,940 --> 00:36:52,242 You know, a blonde, pretty, college-aged girl. 558 00:36:52,644 --> 00:36:56,445 And, she always posted the same verbiage. 559 00:36:56,547 --> 00:36:58,113 Something like, "this is not porn. 560 00:36:58,215 --> 00:37:00,048 My interest is in tickling. " 561 00:37:01,051 --> 00:37:05,286 And she just said that she was a tickling fanatic and... 562 00:37:05,855 --> 00:37:08,222 But, I mean, these posts were everywhere. 563 00:37:11,326 --> 00:37:13,592 And then, um, some videos started popping up, 564 00:37:13,694 --> 00:37:15,794 you know, very, you know, innocent. 565 00:37:17,363 --> 00:37:19,763 And, those are probably the first 566 00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:24,566 tickle videos that I ever saw on the Internet. 567 00:37:28,871 --> 00:37:31,271 David: There are still traces of Terri tickle online 568 00:37:32,707 --> 00:37:34,407 from the mid-'90s, 569 00:37:34,408 --> 00:37:36,108 and as Richard said, she was tickle-obsessed. 570 00:37:36,210 --> 00:37:38,743 Like Jane, she also hired other people 571 00:37:38,845 --> 00:37:40,611 to shoot the videos she wanted. 572 00:37:43,282 --> 00:37:48,751 Well, the, uh, just strange, rich brat, 573 00:37:49,453 --> 00:37:50,952 I guess you could say. 574 00:37:51,788 --> 00:37:55,522 Someone who, uh, got her rocks off by, uh, 575 00:37:55,624 --> 00:37:58,358 seeing guys, uh, tied and tickled. 576 00:37:58,460 --> 00:38:01,259 Obviously an extreme dominatrix. 577 00:38:03,363 --> 00:38:04,662 David: For most of his life, 578 00:38:04,764 --> 00:38:06,630 Dave starr has worked on the edges 579 00:38:06,732 --> 00:38:08,665 of the entertainment industry, 580 00:38:08,967 --> 00:38:11,667 even acting in a couple of pornos. 581 00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:13,334 During the mid-'90s, 582 00:38:13,569 --> 00:38:16,703 he noticed Terri's online posts wanting tickling videos... 583 00:38:17,439 --> 00:38:18,704 Lots of them. 584 00:38:21,642 --> 00:38:26,510 Dave: Terri was, uh, out there looking for guys, uh, 18 to 23. 585 00:38:27,546 --> 00:38:31,847 And I, uh, figured that it would, um... 586 00:38:33,116 --> 00:38:35,382 Be something right up my alley, 587 00:38:35,484 --> 00:38:36,716 based on my, uh, working in casting. 588 00:38:40,888 --> 00:38:44,389 David: What sort of things was she recruiting for specifically? 589 00:38:45,959 --> 00:38:49,693 Uh, tickle torture films. Tickle torture videos. 590 00:38:50,562 --> 00:38:52,528 Can you turn that thing around so I can see it? 591 00:38:52,897 --> 00:38:54,062 Man: All right. 592 00:38:56,433 --> 00:38:58,032 - Is that all right? - Yeah, that's good. 593 00:39:01,570 --> 00:39:04,904 Dave: She claimed it was for a private collection, 594 00:39:06,908 --> 00:39:09,675 so I was thinking, "okay, amateur hour. " 595 00:39:16,183 --> 00:39:21,419 But me, I rapidly took it into a professional level. 596 00:39:22,188 --> 00:39:24,588 Man 1: Okay, are you, uh, ticklish? 597 00:39:24,957 --> 00:39:26,256 Man 2: Uh, yes, I am. 598 00:39:26,625 --> 00:39:28,758 Man 1: Okay, step forward about a foot. 599 00:39:29,093 --> 00:39:32,694 Okay. Place your hands behind your head, inter-clasp them. 600 00:39:32,796 --> 00:39:34,729 Step back a little further, though. 601 00:39:34,831 --> 00:39:36,163 Okay, right about there. 602 00:39:36,265 --> 00:39:37,530 Okay, inter-clasp them 603 00:39:37,632 --> 00:39:39,765 and do not release them at any time 604 00:39:39,867 --> 00:39:41,266 during the entire tickle test. 605 00:39:41,368 --> 00:39:42,834 Do your worst on this one. 606 00:39:43,303 --> 00:39:44,568 Dave: We would put them in through 607 00:39:44,670 --> 00:39:46,670 their stage one audition, 608 00:39:46,772 --> 00:39:50,239 which is the questions and the test tickles. 609 00:39:51,275 --> 00:39:54,109 Man 1: Do not collapse. Stay looking up at us. 610 00:39:59,948 --> 00:40:01,414 Stay facing us. 611 00:40:08,521 --> 00:40:15,425 Dave: Stage two is tying them to the table, tickling them, 612 00:40:15,527 --> 00:40:17,527 flipping them over every 15 minutes, 613 00:40:17,629 --> 00:40:21,030 kind of like a sausage or meat. 614 00:40:24,801 --> 00:40:26,267 Dave: And then after that, uh, 615 00:40:26,369 --> 00:40:30,103 we had the competitive tickling at that point. 616 00:40:30,205 --> 00:40:33,372 Tickle wars and stuff like that. 617 00:40:33,474 --> 00:40:37,642 And that would involve a massive production. 618 00:40:51,923 --> 00:40:53,422 Woman: Okay, don't laugh. 619 00:40:53,891 --> 00:40:55,957 You're giggling already, aren't you? 620 00:40:57,860 --> 00:41:00,060 Well, you just might be the type of person 621 00:41:00,162 --> 00:41:02,128 that David starr is looking for. 622 00:41:02,230 --> 00:41:03,495 He is a Hollywood producer 623 00:41:03,597 --> 00:41:06,097 working on a new reality-based game show 624 00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:08,499 called tickle talk. 625 00:41:08,868 --> 00:41:13,070 Dave: 626 00:41:19,210 --> 00:41:20,409 Woman: It might be preferable to 627 00:41:20,511 --> 00:41:22,644 eating rats or grubs on survivor 628 00:41:22,746 --> 00:41:24,479 but just barely. 629 00:41:24,581 --> 00:41:27,848 I'm Anne James, ksen k96 news. 630 00:41:27,950 --> 00:41:30,817 David: Dave starr had steady work for five years, 631 00:41:30,919 --> 00:41:34,152 even when Terri was hospitalized for six months. 632 00:41:34,754 --> 00:41:36,019 During that time, 633 00:41:36,121 --> 00:41:37,753 she just wrote letters specifying 634 00:41:37,855 --> 00:41:40,755 exactly what she wanted in the tickling videos. 635 00:41:40,857 --> 00:41:43,023 Terri: "David, merry Christmas! 636 00:41:43,125 --> 00:41:45,358 So sorry, I'm in the hospital with mono. " 637 00:41:45,460 --> 00:41:48,327 "David, just a few things I need you to do... " 638 00:41:48,429 --> 00:41:50,996 "Tell them I will send the computer as soon as I'm well. " 639 00:41:51,098 --> 00:41:53,364 "His name is Josh. " "I hope to be online again in feb. " 640 00:41:53,466 --> 00:41:56,633 "I'm still sick in bed. " "That's all for now. Td. " 641 00:41:59,971 --> 00:42:02,371 My most ticklish place is, i guess... 642 00:42:03,374 --> 00:42:07,776 Definitely, like... It'd have to be in my legs... 643 00:42:08,578 --> 00:42:11,879 More than, like, my armpits or my feet, I think, but... 644 00:42:12,147 --> 00:42:14,714 Dave: At that time she wanted to put up 645 00:42:14,816 --> 00:42:18,150 and did indeed put up a website for a while, uh, 646 00:42:18,252 --> 00:42:22,019 unauthorized releasing of the videos... 647 00:42:23,222 --> 00:42:25,155 Against the agreement of the talent, 648 00:42:25,757 --> 00:42:27,156 and I flipped my lid. 649 00:42:27,591 --> 00:42:29,324 And, lo and behold, 650 00:42:29,426 --> 00:42:33,160 she goes and registers domains in their names 651 00:42:33,795 --> 00:42:35,461 and then proceeds to... 652 00:42:36,263 --> 00:42:40,331 Release all their content on to those particular websites. 653 00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:53,709 Alden: She was, like, sending me emails about, um, 654 00:42:53,811 --> 00:42:55,043 "what do you think your mother's 655 00:42:55,145 --> 00:42:56,844 gonna think about this?" 656 00:42:57,313 --> 00:43:01,181 And then, like, I'd be like, you know, "fuck you, bitch. " 657 00:43:01,283 --> 00:43:05,851 And she'd be, like... Like, totally antagonizing. 658 00:43:05,953 --> 00:43:10,689 Like... I mean, she was such a cunt. 659 00:43:15,361 --> 00:43:19,229 It was an assault not just on me but on my family, you know? 660 00:43:20,298 --> 00:43:23,065 I mean, I couldn't have a more conservative family, you know? 661 00:43:23,268 --> 00:43:26,969 I'm, I'm in a family full of republican, military people, 662 00:43:27,071 --> 00:43:30,505 and I'm a... I was a professional banker. 663 00:43:30,607 --> 00:43:35,042 And here I am, like, with basically a porn site, 664 00:43:35,144 --> 00:43:38,278 where I'm not naked, but, i mean, I might as well be. 665 00:43:38,380 --> 00:43:41,381 You know, this was ruining my life at the time. 666 00:43:41,483 --> 00:43:42,648 That's how I felt. 667 00:43:42,883 --> 00:43:46,050 It certainly was affecting my ability to function, 668 00:43:46,152 --> 00:43:51,721 because it was so emotionally draining. 669 00:43:51,889 --> 00:43:57,124 Part of the reason was because there's nobody to help me. 670 00:43:58,494 --> 00:44:02,629 It's like you lose control over, you know, your life. 671 00:44:10,004 --> 00:44:13,738 Dave: Well, that's when the, uh, crap started happening, 672 00:44:13,906 --> 00:44:15,171 uh, with me. 673 00:44:16,274 --> 00:44:19,475 Um, you decide, "okay, because I, uh, 674 00:44:19,577 --> 00:44:22,578 I closed down submissions for her, 675 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:23,745 and, 676 00:44:23,747 --> 00:44:28,316 I guess, I basically was like her tickling drug dealer, 677 00:44:28,685 --> 00:44:32,086 and, uh, since she wasn't getting her drug any more, 678 00:44:32,188 --> 00:44:34,821 she was going through tickle withdrawals. 679 00:44:36,658 --> 00:44:38,524 David: And what happened? 680 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,828 I started, uh, receiving the, uh, 681 00:44:42,930 --> 00:44:46,931 strange postcards, and the, uh, strange messages. 682 00:44:47,767 --> 00:44:51,901 The, uh... the, uh, talent was starting to receive messages. 683 00:44:52,436 --> 00:44:57,071 And, uh, she also deployed a thing called the phone blaster, 684 00:44:57,173 --> 00:45:03,677 which was to call everybody with obscene messages. 685 00:45:04,646 --> 00:45:08,414 Woman: 686 00:45:38,312 --> 00:45:40,444 This person's on drugs. 687 00:45:42,381 --> 00:45:46,316 This person's gotta be on crystal or something, 688 00:45:46,985 --> 00:45:50,252 or taking cocaine up the ass, or something like that. 689 00:45:51,054 --> 00:45:52,453 It was weird. 690 00:45:54,990 --> 00:45:57,890 I'm glad to be able to make this available to you. 691 00:45:57,992 --> 00:46:00,625 David: David kept a number of letters Terri had sent him 692 00:46:00,727 --> 00:46:03,761 and was keen to show me the extent of the abuse. 693 00:46:04,563 --> 00:46:09,131 - All right. - This is the magic stuff. 694 00:46:10,267 --> 00:46:11,666 All right, what have we got? 695 00:46:15,871 --> 00:46:18,605 Yeah. Uh, these are basically copies 696 00:46:18,707 --> 00:46:21,474 of what she would post online. 697 00:46:21,943 --> 00:46:23,676 So who's Barbara? Is that your...? 698 00:46:23,778 --> 00:46:25,077 That's my mother. 699 00:46:25,779 --> 00:46:27,645 David: "Hairy and horny. Hairy and horny. 700 00:46:27,747 --> 00:46:29,847 Jewish tickle filmer David w. Starr 701 00:46:29,949 --> 00:46:31,415 is hook-nosed, hairy and horny. " 702 00:46:31,517 --> 00:46:36,953 She's used that tagline for many, many, many times. 703 00:46:37,055 --> 00:46:38,187 What did your...? 704 00:46:38,556 --> 00:46:40,289 What did your mother think of this stuff 705 00:46:40,391 --> 00:46:42,357 when this turned up? I mean... 706 00:46:42,459 --> 00:46:44,425 Actually, her phrase was, uh... 707 00:46:44,527 --> 00:46:47,528 Here's a, uh, note that she left me because, uh, 708 00:46:47,630 --> 00:46:49,596 she would hold these for me in the mail 709 00:46:49,698 --> 00:46:52,832 and basically just say, "here's another nasty thing. " 710 00:46:52,934 --> 00:46:55,334 And that one actually is unopened. 711 00:46:55,436 --> 00:46:58,103 I've never even opened it to this date. 712 00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:04,374 And let's see what our little illustrious friend had to say. 713 00:47:04,876 --> 00:47:07,009 Oh, god. So it's a card. 714 00:47:08,779 --> 00:47:11,880 David: "Roses are red, violets are bue. " 715 00:47:11,982 --> 00:47:13,648 Can't spell worth shit. 716 00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:16,484 "David w. Starr has brought this upon you. 717 00:47:16,586 --> 00:47:19,553 Perhaps you wish, perhaps instead, 718 00:47:19,655 --> 00:47:22,122 that David your failure, not Edward, were dead. " 719 00:47:22,224 --> 00:47:24,857 That's a reference to my brother, who is dead. 720 00:47:26,060 --> 00:47:29,561 That's, uh, really extreme. A little bit psycho. 721 00:47:30,063 --> 00:47:32,229 But, I mean, what...? When you were getting all this material 722 00:47:32,331 --> 00:47:35,031 and some of it's talking about your brother who 723 00:47:35,133 --> 00:47:36,532 - has passed away and... - Uh-huh. 724 00:47:36,634 --> 00:47:37,866 Writing this stuff to your mother, 725 00:47:37,968 --> 00:47:40,668 I mean, that, that must have... 726 00:47:42,138 --> 00:47:45,405 I mean, that... that's not nice receiving that on weekly basis. 727 00:47:45,507 --> 00:47:49,641 Uh, no, but it was on a weekly basis, uh, yeah. 728 00:47:51,745 --> 00:47:53,577 Yeah, where did they have the time? 729 00:47:55,847 --> 00:47:57,847 - Jeez, it's a birthday card. - Yeah. 730 00:47:57,949 --> 00:47:59,315 "Happy birthday. 731 00:47:59,917 --> 00:48:04,685 Edward starr dead. " This is really cruel, right? 732 00:48:04,787 --> 00:48:06,086 It's very sick. 733 00:48:10,358 --> 00:48:12,725 David: The more I hear about Terri disisto, 734 00:48:12,827 --> 00:48:15,260 the more she sounds like Jane o'brien. 735 00:48:15,629 --> 00:48:19,430 To state the obvious, they both really enjoy tickling. 736 00:48:19,532 --> 00:48:22,499 They also like being in control and lashing out. 737 00:48:22,601 --> 00:48:24,333 I really appreciate it and stay in touch. 738 00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:29,003 David: And it turns out Terri's habits started 739 00:48:29,105 --> 00:48:31,438 way before Dave starr got involved. 740 00:48:31,873 --> 00:48:34,206 I've found a journalist who'd spent a year uncovering 741 00:48:34,308 --> 00:48:37,909 the truth about Terri disisto during the '90s. 742 00:48:39,512 --> 00:48:42,246 Hal: Terri disisto's mo was to bait these boys 743 00:48:42,348 --> 00:48:44,348 into making tickling videos with 744 00:48:44,450 --> 00:48:46,383 things that they wanted, right? 745 00:48:47,185 --> 00:48:48,951 You know, I mean, imagine being a teenage boy, 746 00:48:49,053 --> 00:48:52,054 and, like, you get this random email saying, you know, 747 00:48:52,156 --> 00:48:54,956 "i saw your posting about the phish concert, and, uh, 748 00:48:55,058 --> 00:48:56,390 how would you like to go?" 749 00:48:56,492 --> 00:48:58,959 Or, " I can send you $1000 cash. " 750 00:48:59,061 --> 00:49:00,527 And you're like... You're living in your dorm 751 00:49:00,629 --> 00:49:03,429 at James Madison university. You're like, "yeah, sure. 752 00:49:03,531 --> 00:49:06,731 You're gonna send me $1000 cash. Right. " 753 00:49:07,734 --> 00:49:10,267 Fedex pulls up in front of your dorm the next day, 754 00:49:10,369 --> 00:49:13,269 and there is ten $100 bills. 755 00:49:13,638 --> 00:49:14,970 You haven't done anything. 756 00:49:17,074 --> 00:49:19,541 She would just keep sending them whatever they wanted, 757 00:49:19,643 --> 00:49:22,877 you know. Computers, cameras, more cash, 758 00:49:23,145 --> 00:49:25,211 tickets to rock concerts. 759 00:49:26,714 --> 00:49:29,715 Then at some point, even a teenage boy 760 00:49:29,817 --> 00:49:31,983 has all the toys that they want. 761 00:49:32,885 --> 00:49:35,085 And they say, "i... I'm done. " 762 00:49:36,488 --> 00:49:41,290 But I think the thing that she hates the most was no. 763 00:49:41,558 --> 00:49:45,625 It was like... A bomb went off. 764 00:49:48,262 --> 00:49:49,728 And she'd say, "well, 765 00:49:49,863 --> 00:49:53,731 if you don't do it, I'm gonna make your life hell. " 766 00:49:55,234 --> 00:49:57,234 "I'm gonna send clips of these videos 767 00:49:57,336 --> 00:49:58,802 to your wrestling coach. " 768 00:49:59,437 --> 00:50:01,837 "I'm gonna send clips of these videos to your mom. " 769 00:50:01,939 --> 00:50:04,506 "I'm gonna send clips of these videos to your grandmother. " 770 00:50:04,608 --> 00:50:06,107 "I'm gonna send clips of these videos 771 00:50:06,242 --> 00:50:08,408 to the president of your university. " 772 00:50:08,510 --> 00:50:10,009 "I'm gonna post them all over the Internet. " 773 00:50:10,244 --> 00:50:12,911 "I'm gonna pretend to be you and do things on the Internet 774 00:50:13,013 --> 00:50:15,580 that are gonna create a terrible reputation for you. " 775 00:50:15,682 --> 00:50:20,183 "I'm gonna shut down the entire college campus computer system 776 00:50:20,285 --> 00:50:23,285 at your college, and they're gonna think it's you. " 777 00:50:25,623 --> 00:50:26,888 And then it happened. 778 00:50:41,504 --> 00:50:43,871 Debbie: The first story I did was because 779 00:50:44,306 --> 00:50:47,974 she was attacking, um, drexel university. 780 00:50:49,844 --> 00:50:53,979 And I found the student who, um, 781 00:50:54,748 --> 00:50:56,647 had made a number of videos for her. 782 00:51:00,185 --> 00:51:03,452 And when he came to Philadelphia to go to college, 783 00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:06,053 she wanted him to continue making these videos, 784 00:51:06,155 --> 00:51:09,456 and he wanted to cut off his relationship with her. 785 00:51:09,658 --> 00:51:12,491 And she retaliated on so many levels. 786 00:51:14,328 --> 00:51:16,094 Their email servers' computers were being shut down 787 00:51:16,196 --> 00:51:18,162 with these denial-of-service attacks 788 00:51:18,264 --> 00:51:20,964 that indicated that they were coming from him. 789 00:51:24,336 --> 00:51:26,169 Email-bombing the white house, 790 00:51:26,538 --> 00:51:28,571 indicating that it came from him. 791 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,473 Yeah, that's pretty serious stuff when the secret service 792 00:51:32,575 --> 00:51:35,976 shows up in your college dorm and you're 19 years old. 793 00:51:42,616 --> 00:51:45,483 I was just curious, and I somehow 794 00:51:45,585 --> 00:51:49,419 started contacting Terri on aol. 795 00:51:49,421 --> 00:51:50,686 She had an account. 796 00:51:53,090 --> 00:51:55,690 And we would have these chats late at night. 797 00:51:56,592 --> 00:52:00,960 And I was curious what kind of mind was behind this... 798 00:52:01,629 --> 00:52:03,862 Celebrated Internet personage.. 799 00:52:04,931 --> 00:52:07,798 And it was, it was kind of crazy. 800 00:52:07,900 --> 00:52:09,599 We would have these conversations, 801 00:52:11,602 --> 00:52:12,401 and she would... 802 00:52:12,402 --> 00:52:13,201 When she realized that I did wine, she would say, 803 00:52:13,303 --> 00:52:16,370 "oh, I'm having a glass of chardonnay!" 804 00:52:16,472 --> 00:52:20,473 And I could just hear this voice because as it went on, 805 00:52:20,575 --> 00:52:23,676 it was almost like she was completely intoxicated 806 00:52:23,911 --> 00:52:27,612 with this power that she had to... 807 00:52:28,214 --> 00:52:30,214 To be so destructive against people. 808 00:52:40,992 --> 00:52:45,060 Hal: I got word about a kid who refused to make the videos. 809 00:52:46,730 --> 00:52:49,297 He posted that he needed some help, 810 00:52:49,399 --> 00:52:51,632 and somebody said they would help him. 811 00:52:55,304 --> 00:52:57,671 And somehow he got emailed a file, 812 00:52:59,007 --> 00:53:03,008 and he was told, "if you email this zip file to Terri, 813 00:53:03,110 --> 00:53:04,742 she will leave you alone. " 814 00:53:08,514 --> 00:53:10,380 And then he sent me that zip file. 815 00:53:16,087 --> 00:53:18,653 You know, and I remember opening it up and thinking... 816 00:53:20,189 --> 00:53:23,657 "Wow! You know, this is it. Like, this is... 817 00:53:24,092 --> 00:53:25,858 This is the smoking gun. " 818 00:53:33,099 --> 00:53:36,567 David: The zip file contained documents from her hard drive. 819 00:53:36,669 --> 00:53:40,436 As expected, there were files relating to tickling shoots. 820 00:53:43,007 --> 00:53:48,110 But they also revealed the true identity of Terri tickle. 821 00:54:00,991 --> 00:54:02,390 Hal: David d'amato. 822 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,861 She is really he, right? 823 00:54:18,339 --> 00:54:21,405 Debbie: He was an assistant principal in a high school? 824 00:54:24,343 --> 00:54:25,608 I just... 825 00:54:28,746 --> 00:54:32,147 Couldn't believe it. 826 00:54:32,249 --> 00:54:34,882 I don't know why, but it just seemed... 827 00:54:34,984 --> 00:54:38,785 Here is this sadistic person exploiting these young people, 828 00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:40,986 often underage, 829 00:54:42,889 --> 00:54:46,089 making their lives miserable, embarrassing them, 830 00:54:46,825 --> 00:54:48,925 to an extent that it's every... 831 00:54:49,027 --> 00:54:52,828 It goes against everything that an educator should be doing. 832 00:55:00,370 --> 00:55:02,937 Hal: When I did some more checking, I found out that 833 00:55:03,039 --> 00:55:06,240 he had worked at, like, eight schools in ten years. 834 00:55:07,743 --> 00:55:09,409 Which to me was always a red flag 835 00:55:09,511 --> 00:55:10,977 that there was something else going on. 836 00:55:11,079 --> 00:55:13,946 I mean, that's more than just sheer incompetence. 837 00:55:16,583 --> 00:55:20,418 And then I found social security numbers for her 838 00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,653 that he had gotten fraudulently... 839 00:55:23,422 --> 00:55:25,422 With dead people's names. 840 00:55:30,094 --> 00:55:34,496 So I contacted the FBI. 841 00:55:35,866 --> 00:55:38,666 I turned over all my information to them. 842 00:55:40,236 --> 00:55:43,670 Within a week, they busted him. 843 00:55:56,551 --> 00:55:58,551 Debbie: We were shocked at the sentencing 844 00:55:58,753 --> 00:56:01,453 because he got off so easy. 845 00:56:01,555 --> 00:56:04,188 For somebody who had done so much damage, 846 00:56:05,457 --> 00:56:07,323 to me it was just extraordinary. 847 00:56:08,059 --> 00:56:10,626 And to not, to not have restrictions on their 848 00:56:10,728 --> 00:56:14,829 Internet access after that, how could...? 849 00:56:15,431 --> 00:56:18,298 And the... oh! And the idea that he was going to law school 850 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:19,999 was just absurd. 851 00:56:22,503 --> 00:56:25,470 David: It turns out David d'amato's father, George, 852 00:56:25,572 --> 00:56:28,306 co-founded one of wall street's biggest law firms, 853 00:56:28,408 --> 00:56:32,676 d'amato & lynch, and David got a really great lawyer. 854 00:56:33,178 --> 00:56:36,145 Instead of prison, d'amato was allowed to serve his sentence 855 00:56:36,247 --> 00:56:38,247 in the halfway house while he studied law 856 00:56:38,349 --> 00:56:41,916 at his father's Alma mater, Fordham university. 857 00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,187 Hal: The judge, for some reason, 858 00:56:47,289 --> 00:56:50,690 decided that he would endorse the law school path, right? 859 00:56:51,592 --> 00:56:53,091 Because, like, this is exactly the kind of person 860 00:56:53,193 --> 00:56:54,926 that should be a lawyer, right? 861 00:56:55,028 --> 00:56:58,262 Somebody who has defrauded people, 862 00:56:58,364 --> 00:57:00,330 somebody who has stolen people's identities. 863 00:57:00,432 --> 00:57:02,064 A federal freakin' crime, right? 864 00:57:02,166 --> 00:57:05,400 I mean... like, you know, stolen identity. 865 00:57:05,502 --> 00:57:07,602 Stolen a social security number of a dead woman, 866 00:57:07,704 --> 00:57:09,670 of two dead people, right? 867 00:57:12,207 --> 00:57:15,941 It said, "David d'amato, 39, of garden city, 868 00:57:16,510 --> 00:57:18,877 plead guilty for two federal counts of 869 00:57:18,979 --> 00:57:20,378 computer fraud and abuse. " 870 00:57:23,683 --> 00:57:25,883 Nothing about the tickling, 871 00:57:25,985 --> 00:57:29,853 nothing about the boys, nothing about the identity theft. 872 00:57:29,988 --> 00:57:31,787 Zero. Nothing. 873 00:57:32,790 --> 00:57:35,724 David: Once Fordham became aware of d'amato's convictions, 874 00:57:35,826 --> 00:57:37,792 his admission was revoked. 875 00:57:37,894 --> 00:57:39,460 No longer able to study law, 876 00:57:39,562 --> 00:57:42,095 d'amato finished his sentence in prison. 877 00:57:42,497 --> 00:57:45,598 But I've realized that didn't stop the tickling. 878 00:57:46,667 --> 00:57:49,200 David: So, this is 2002. So this is writing to David starr, 879 00:57:49,302 --> 00:57:51,435 who would shoot these boys tickling 880 00:57:51,537 --> 00:57:53,270 and then send the videos... 881 00:57:54,573 --> 00:57:55,705 To Terri. That was a, that's... 882 00:57:55,807 --> 00:57:58,374 because she, what she would have is... 883 00:57:59,210 --> 00:58:01,076 - Do you want your glasses? - Back in the early days... 884 00:58:01,178 --> 00:58:03,144 Yeah. Back in the early days... 885 00:58:05,015 --> 00:58:11,018 Terri would have friends tickle them and send them the... 886 00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,320 They were amateur tapes. 887 00:58:13,422 --> 00:58:15,755 - These are now professional? - Well, this is... 888 00:58:15,823 --> 00:58:17,389 - Look at the date on it. - '02? 889 00:58:17,491 --> 00:58:18,690 Look at the date. 890 00:58:19,659 --> 00:58:22,826 - Is the "t" Terri? - Yeah, it's Terri writing. 891 00:58:22,928 --> 00:58:27,096 So that was during, um, lock-up time. 892 00:58:27,198 --> 00:58:29,998 Oh, in jail. I get it. 893 00:58:30,100 --> 00:58:35,336 "David, a few other things. Email... explain my illness. " 894 00:58:35,438 --> 00:58:37,538 Oh. "Tell him I'll pay everything owed 895 00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,574 as soon as the mono is better. " 896 00:58:40,676 --> 00:58:46,245 Oh. "Get headshots. " My god! Oh, my god! 897 00:58:47,648 --> 00:58:53,618 "I won't be online for a while as I am very sick. " Oh. 898 00:58:59,725 --> 00:59:04,360 - Couldn't stop. - No. No. 899 00:59:06,297 --> 00:59:08,697 David: It seems that since the mid-'90s, 900 00:59:08,799 --> 00:59:11,733 David d'amato has never stopped finding elaborate ways 901 00:59:11,835 --> 00:59:14,368 to get young men to tickle each other. 902 00:59:14,903 --> 00:59:16,469 His persona of Terri tickle 903 00:59:16,571 --> 00:59:20,105 seems to have dropped off the radar around 2006. 904 00:59:20,874 --> 00:59:24,742 A while later, Jane o'brien arrived on the scene. 905 00:59:28,547 --> 00:59:30,446 We've posted this theory online, 906 00:59:30,548 --> 00:59:33,314 and David d'amato is not happy. 907 00:59:35,084 --> 00:59:38,752 He's hired not one, but two private investigators, 908 00:59:38,854 --> 00:59:41,587 one in New Zealand and one in New York. 909 00:59:43,257 --> 00:59:46,958 The message is clear. They tell us to stop what we're doing 910 00:59:47,060 --> 00:59:50,761 and that d'amato has nothing to do with Jane o'brien media. 911 00:59:53,765 --> 00:59:55,498 On top of that, 912 00:59:55,499 --> 00:59:57,232 David d'amato has also hired a New Zealand lawyer. 913 00:59:57,535 --> 01:00:00,068 He's demanding an apology and retraction 914 01:00:00,170 --> 01:00:03,171 or else he'll see us in a New Zealand court. 915 01:00:12,414 --> 01:00:13,579 We're now being attacked 916 01:00:13,681 --> 01:00:16,014 by Jane o'brien's lawyers on one side 917 01:00:16,116 --> 01:00:18,449 and David d'amato's on the other, 918 01:00:18,951 --> 01:00:22,751 both insisting they have nothing to do with each other. 919 01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,954 Once again, we're way out of our depth. 920 01:00:29,092 --> 01:00:30,691 Things get even more surreal 921 01:00:30,759 --> 01:00:32,692 with a phone call from Michigan, 922 01:00:32,794 --> 01:00:35,161 where there's a very different tickling operation 923 01:00:35,263 --> 01:00:37,096 also being run by Jane. 924 01:00:40,367 --> 01:00:44,268 Jordan: 925 01:01:24,776 --> 01:01:27,076 David: So, like, crime is pretty high... 926 01:01:27,244 --> 01:01:28,876 - Jordan: Yeah... - ... Here, right? 927 01:01:28,978 --> 01:01:33,813 Murder, robberies, um, rape, I mean, theft. 928 01:01:33,915 --> 01:01:35,681 It's all up there, 929 01:01:35,783 --> 01:01:39,084 especially for being as small, um, as what it is. 930 01:01:39,186 --> 01:01:41,085 We've made it now, uh, 931 01:01:41,187 --> 01:01:45,555 on to the top 100 most dangerous cities in the United States. 932 01:01:46,257 --> 01:01:47,990 David: Do you think on some level 933 01:01:48,092 --> 01:01:51,359 Jane kind of directed things here because it is a poor area? 934 01:01:51,461 --> 01:01:55,062 Yeah, you know, the poverty level, you know, 935 01:01:55,164 --> 01:01:56,730 - is easy to target, you know. - Mm. 936 01:01:56,832 --> 01:01:59,265 Thousands of dollars in kids' hands is... 937 01:01:59,367 --> 01:02:01,266 That's a, that's a big, big deal. 938 01:02:48,075 --> 01:02:53,811 David: Jane has taken a liking to one of muskegon's main sports, mixed martial arts. 939 01:02:53,913 --> 01:02:58,081 A group of young, athletic men desperate for extra money. 940 01:03:19,704 --> 01:03:22,771 Jordan: That's what she was trying to do, is break into the mma world. 941 01:03:23,774 --> 01:03:26,307 Because it's not illegal to tickle somebody 942 01:03:26,409 --> 01:03:29,343 to get out of a submission in mixed martial arts. 943 01:03:30,112 --> 01:03:31,611 Like, she was trying to pitch that 944 01:03:31,713 --> 01:03:32,611 because she, like, 945 01:03:32,613 --> 01:03:35,347 looked it up in all the rules and everything. 946 01:03:36,283 --> 01:03:39,784 But if you tickle a guy in the middle of that ring 947 01:03:39,886 --> 01:03:41,485 to get out of a submission, 948 01:03:41,587 --> 01:03:44,187 you might step out of the cage and get punched in the face. 949 01:03:44,923 --> 01:03:49,525 Like, never in a million years out of all my fights 950 01:03:49,693 --> 01:03:52,326 would I ever try to tickle somebody 951 01:03:52,428 --> 01:03:55,862 to get out of a submission. Fuck, no! 952 01:04:13,143 --> 01:04:14,609 David: As an ex-fighter, 953 01:04:14,711 --> 01:04:18,179 Jordan was paid to recruit tickling talent in the town. 954 01:04:18,281 --> 01:04:22,115 He's the only one in muskegon prepared to appear on camera. 955 01:04:23,418 --> 01:04:29,621 She offered my one buddy a 2014 Chevy cruze and $30,000. 956 01:04:30,056 --> 01:04:32,222 - What? What for? To tickle? - Yeah. 957 01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:35,691 Just 'cause, like, she liked him. 958 01:04:35,793 --> 01:04:36,958 Yeah, right. She... He was a favorite. 959 01:04:37,126 --> 01:04:38,492 - Like, yeah. - Yeah. 960 01:04:38,594 --> 01:04:41,027 Asians and redheads are what they call premiums. 961 01:04:41,129 --> 01:04:43,529 If you get those, like, she gives you bonuses. 962 01:04:44,164 --> 01:04:46,130 I'm Jordan schillaci, and this is cet. 963 01:04:46,232 --> 01:04:48,398 Uh, we're gonna be having a discussion, 964 01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:51,234 more of a debate today about whether tickling 965 01:04:51,336 --> 01:04:54,470 is effective in a combat situation. 966 01:04:58,809 --> 01:05:00,642 We ended up setting up a tickle cell. Like, 967 01:05:00,844 --> 01:05:02,043 where you get guys to come in, 968 01:05:02,145 --> 01:05:04,812 "we'll pay you and you pay them to audition. " 969 01:05:04,914 --> 01:05:07,747 No! 970 01:05:10,284 --> 01:05:12,851 So we'd choose a hotel, nothing fancy, 971 01:05:12,953 --> 01:05:16,988 and, uh, the guys would come in and hang out, you know, 972 01:05:17,090 --> 01:05:21,391 smoke, drink, eat pizza, fuckin', and we'd hurry up 973 01:05:21,493 --> 01:05:24,894 and run through, you know, five, six, seven guys. 974 01:05:30,100 --> 01:05:32,934 So you're... you were looking after the tickle cell in muskegon? 975 01:05:33,036 --> 01:05:35,202 Yeah, they have them set up all over the us. 976 01:05:35,304 --> 01:05:39,072 Ohio, Michigan, Florida, New York. 977 01:05:39,174 --> 01:05:41,040 - I mean, they're everywhere. - Right. 978 01:05:41,175 --> 01:05:43,175 - And they're all for Jane? - Yeah. 979 01:05:43,710 --> 01:05:45,076 Fuckin' hell. 980 01:05:51,116 --> 01:05:52,582 Jordan: Well, that's where a lot of people started 981 01:05:52,684 --> 01:05:54,383 getting really really upset, man. 982 01:05:54,485 --> 01:05:55,717 Because all of sudden these videos 983 01:05:55,719 --> 01:05:57,885 that are supposed to be just auditions were on YouTube, 984 01:05:57,887 --> 01:06:00,888 vimeo, and every other site you could imagine. 985 01:06:00,990 --> 01:06:03,289 - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Nobody was okay with that. 986 01:06:05,660 --> 01:06:07,292 One of the guys, Brodie, 987 01:06:07,394 --> 01:06:10,561 like, his family was very upset with him. It was all over. 988 01:06:10,663 --> 01:06:13,330 Like, people just picked on him and picked on him. 989 01:06:14,066 --> 01:06:17,000 You know, he was underage, still in school. 990 01:06:17,302 --> 01:06:19,568 And it wasn't supposed to go out on the Internet. 991 01:06:19,670 --> 01:06:22,337 It wasn't supposed to be put up, and, uh, 992 01:06:22,472 --> 01:06:26,173 you know, that just kind of sucked. 993 01:06:26,275 --> 01:06:28,408 Because, like I said, it took Brodie... 994 01:06:28,510 --> 01:06:29,842 It hit one of the hardest. 995 01:06:29,944 --> 01:06:31,476 Like, this whole situation 996 01:06:31,578 --> 01:06:33,978 and then being underage and his parents. 997 01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:36,213 Who do you have to turn to? Who are you going to attack? 998 01:06:36,315 --> 01:06:39,749 No... Jane o'brien's a ghost. Nobody knows who it is. 999 01:06:41,953 --> 01:06:43,552 Jordan: Cody-bear, no. 1000 01:06:44,521 --> 01:06:47,054 This is Colton, this is my nephew. 1001 01:06:47,156 --> 01:06:48,922 - David: Hey, man. - Colton, how old are you? 1002 01:06:49,925 --> 01:06:51,224 How old are you? 1003 01:06:51,426 --> 01:06:52,691 - Three. - You're three? 1004 01:06:52,793 --> 01:06:54,325 You're three? All right. 1005 01:06:55,127 --> 01:06:57,193 - I'm David. - I'm Phil. How are you doing? 1006 01:06:57,295 --> 01:06:58,560 It's nice to meet you, sir. 1007 01:06:59,629 --> 01:07:02,062 I was really, really reluctant 1008 01:07:02,164 --> 01:07:03,696 when Jordan started talking about this. 1009 01:07:03,831 --> 01:07:06,932 And he's like, "this lady seems straight and legit, mom. " 1010 01:07:07,034 --> 01:07:10,335 I'm like, you know, "these... these boys are young. " 1011 01:07:10,437 --> 01:07:13,871 It's easy to believe, but when you're an old mom, 1012 01:07:14,306 --> 01:07:17,073 you're a little more leery for the boys, and, 1013 01:07:17,208 --> 01:07:20,209 I was very leery right from get-go 1014 01:07:20,311 --> 01:07:22,377 that the boys were gonna get into trouble 1015 01:07:22,479 --> 01:07:24,278 and this was not legit. 1016 01:07:34,622 --> 01:07:36,521 Jordan: She has all the money in the world, it seems like, 1017 01:07:36,623 --> 01:07:38,856 whoever it is, to be able to do this. 1018 01:07:38,958 --> 01:07:42,258 But they're waiting for that day that you rely 1019 01:07:43,027 --> 01:07:45,193 on that as a sole income. 1020 01:07:45,528 --> 01:07:47,561 That was her big, I think, power trip. 1021 01:07:47,663 --> 01:07:51,297 She waited until a bunch of us relied on that income 1022 01:07:51,399 --> 01:07:53,932 because that was our only source of income. 1023 01:07:54,034 --> 01:07:55,767 We'd been doing it for so long, we didn't think... 1024 01:07:55,869 --> 01:07:58,469 She waited until she had complete control, 1025 01:07:58,571 --> 01:08:00,938 basically, over your situation, 1026 01:08:01,307 --> 01:08:02,806 and that's when she wanted to yank that rug 1027 01:08:02,908 --> 01:08:04,440 right out from under you. 1028 01:08:09,313 --> 01:08:12,480 David: David d'amato. Have you heard that name before? 1029 01:08:13,015 --> 01:08:14,647 In relation to all this stuff? 1030 01:08:16,350 --> 01:08:19,250 I am literally, like, trembling right now. 1031 01:08:19,352 --> 01:08:20,451 Are you actually shaking? 1032 01:08:20,453 --> 01:08:24,555 Yeah, I'm actually, like, shaking. Like, I'm not, like... 1033 01:08:24,657 --> 01:08:27,591 Like I said, like, from being from here, I don't take shit. 1034 01:08:27,693 --> 01:08:30,794 Like, if I met up with that guy, I'd punch him right out. 1035 01:08:30,896 --> 01:08:33,096 And when he woke up, he'd be strapped to a chair with a... 1036 01:08:33,198 --> 01:08:34,263 Like, I'd be like, 1037 01:08:34,431 --> 01:08:35,797 "dude, you're telling me everything right now. " 1038 01:08:43,072 --> 01:08:45,405 David: The tickling's still happening in this town. 1039 01:08:45,907 --> 01:08:48,007 Jordan: The money is endless. 1040 01:08:48,109 --> 01:08:51,276 I've never seen it stop coming and just flowing in. 1041 01:08:51,378 --> 01:08:53,111 And it's not just through Michigan and la, 1042 01:08:53,213 --> 01:08:54,345 it's everywhere. 1043 01:08:55,014 --> 01:08:58,949 Like, england, Australia, Italy. 1044 01:08:59,051 --> 01:09:01,985 I mean, the money's still coming and going. 1045 01:09:06,424 --> 01:09:07,790 David: This tickling empire 1046 01:09:07,892 --> 01:09:10,291 is way bigger than we ever imagined. 1047 01:09:12,261 --> 01:09:15,328 We're going to New York to find David d'amato. 1048 01:09:52,731 --> 01:09:56,666 I can feel the rich/bad aura. 1049 01:09:59,270 --> 01:10:02,204 David d'amato's address is listed in garden city, 1050 01:10:02,306 --> 01:10:04,705 an affluent suburb of long island. 1051 01:10:07,309 --> 01:10:09,876 He lives on the top floor of this building. 1052 01:10:11,412 --> 01:10:12,577 Lance: Lance Roberts speaking. 1053 01:10:12,679 --> 01:10:14,345 David: Oh, hi. It's David speaking. 1054 01:10:14,447 --> 01:10:17,080 I just wanted to talk to David d'amato. 1055 01:10:17,449 --> 01:10:20,216 Lance: Um, okay. I can't give you his phone number. 1056 01:10:20,351 --> 01:10:21,516 I really can't even give you any 1057 01:10:21,618 --> 01:10:23,317 personal information on him. 1058 01:10:23,752 --> 01:10:24,817 David: Okay. 1059 01:10:25,252 --> 01:10:26,551 Lance: Do you know him? 1060 01:10:26,653 --> 01:10:29,353 - Yes, I do. Yes. - You're a friend of his? 1061 01:10:29,455 --> 01:10:32,155 Um, I'm not a friend, no, but I've, um... 1062 01:10:32,257 --> 01:10:33,756 I've been trying to get in touch with him 1063 01:10:33,858 --> 01:10:35,224 but have been struggling. 1064 01:10:36,026 --> 01:10:37,091 Lance: Okay, what I do is, 1065 01:10:37,193 --> 01:10:39,026 I have a way of leaving him a message. 1066 01:10:39,962 --> 01:10:42,195 I can't guarantee that he's gonna call you back 1067 01:10:42,297 --> 01:10:43,396 if he doesn't know you. 1068 01:10:43,398 --> 01:10:46,265 - Okay, thank you so much. Bye. - You're welcome. 1069 01:10:53,705 --> 01:10:55,671 David: D'amato never calls us back, 1070 01:10:55,773 --> 01:10:58,907 and we've got no other way to contact him directly. 1071 01:11:01,177 --> 01:11:02,442 So annoying. 1072 01:11:08,349 --> 01:11:10,415 It's all right. There's still tomorrow. 1073 01:11:14,319 --> 01:11:17,419 David: But that night we get a frustrating phone call. 1074 01:11:18,722 --> 01:11:21,355 My concern is that we can't do more or less anything 1075 01:11:21,457 --> 01:11:23,123 we have planned for the rest of the trip. 1076 01:11:24,526 --> 01:11:26,358 I know. It's, like, it's fuckin' insane. 1077 01:11:28,395 --> 01:11:30,060 Okay. Bye-bye. 1078 01:11:32,898 --> 01:11:35,865 David: All the threats are worrying our film's producer. 1079 01:11:35,967 --> 01:11:37,700 He doesn't want us to risk provoking 1080 01:11:37,802 --> 01:11:40,302 any further legal action from d'amato. 1081 01:11:40,837 --> 01:11:41,735 So he's saying, 1082 01:11:41,737 --> 01:11:43,603 "well, what if you do everything that you were gonna do, 1083 01:11:43,605 --> 01:11:45,805 except don't go and chase d'amato down?" 1084 01:11:45,907 --> 01:11:47,539 And I'm like, "well, anything we do 1085 01:11:47,641 --> 01:11:49,574 that lets d'amato know we're looking into him again. " 1086 01:11:49,676 --> 01:11:51,542 - Well, from now on in is that. - Yeah, literally. 1087 01:11:51,644 --> 01:11:54,310 So he says, "well, maybe we cut the thing short, then. 1088 01:11:55,146 --> 01:11:56,445 Just go home. " 1089 01:11:57,481 --> 01:11:59,314 I know it's like... It's fuckin' insane. 1090 01:12:09,559 --> 01:12:12,927 David: The next day we put chasing d'amato on hold. 1091 01:12:16,165 --> 01:12:18,232 I want to know how on earth 1092 01:12:18,334 --> 01:12:20,767 a former deputy principal pays for all this. 1093 01:12:21,369 --> 01:12:24,770 We can't find any sign he's earning money from the videos, 1094 01:12:24,872 --> 01:12:27,505 but he's spending lots of money making them. 1095 01:12:28,007 --> 01:12:31,341 He's flying up to ten people into la almost every month 1096 01:12:31,443 --> 01:12:33,376 from all over the world, 1097 01:12:33,478 --> 01:12:35,010 putting them up in a nice hotel, 1098 01:12:35,112 --> 01:12:37,445 paying them thousands in cash. 1099 01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:39,546 And that's not even taking into account 1100 01:12:39,648 --> 01:12:40,947 the cost of running tickle cells, 1101 01:12:41,049 --> 01:12:42,882 like the one in muskegon. 1102 01:12:44,952 --> 01:12:47,118 Both David's parents are now deceased, 1103 01:12:47,220 --> 01:12:50,087 but his father's law firm is one of wall street's biggest. 1104 01:12:50,856 --> 01:12:53,022 Maybe David is reaping the benefits 1105 01:12:53,024 --> 01:12:54,757 of his father's empire. 1106 01:12:57,328 --> 01:12:58,593 Woman: D'amato & lynch. 1107 01:12:58,695 --> 01:13:02,595 Oh, hi. I just had an inquiry, um, 1108 01:13:02,697 --> 01:13:06,298 about the relationship with, uh, um, 1109 01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:10,935 David d'amato with the company, the son of George d'amato. 1110 01:13:11,037 --> 01:13:13,037 Is there someone I could talk to about this? 1111 01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:18,874 No, I'm sorry. And Mr. d'amato has been gone for a long time. 1112 01:13:19,243 --> 01:13:24,645 Yeah, yeah. I'm looking into the background to his son, David. 1113 01:13:24,747 --> 01:13:26,580 And I'm just trying to figure out whether he's got 1114 01:13:26,682 --> 01:13:29,716 any financial relationship with the company still. 1115 01:13:29,818 --> 01:13:33,452 No, I... I really don't know. I'm sorry, I can't help you. 1116 01:13:33,554 --> 01:13:37,422 Is there someone I could talk to at d'amato & lynch to find out? 1117 01:13:38,358 --> 01:13:41,759 Mm. Not that I believe, no. I'm sorry. 1118 01:13:41,861 --> 01:13:44,328 Okay, but there must be a way to find out, surely? 1119 01:13:44,830 --> 01:13:48,765 - Um, not here. Thank you. 1120 01:14:01,079 --> 01:14:04,480 Woman: I haven't seen David in quite a few years. 1121 01:14:04,582 --> 01:14:06,148 I have no knowledge of him now. 1122 01:14:06,783 --> 01:14:09,483 Not in many years have I had any contact with him, 1123 01:14:09,585 --> 01:14:11,751 so I really couldn't give you any information. 1124 01:14:11,853 --> 01:14:14,787 David: Yeah, he's been pretty aggressive towards me, 1125 01:14:14,889 --> 01:14:17,589 so I'm just trying to figure out what his motivations are... 1126 01:14:17,691 --> 01:14:19,791 woman: Get away from him, that's all I can tell you. 1127 01:14:20,693 --> 01:14:23,860 - David: Really? - Yeah. Stay away from him. 1128 01:14:35,139 --> 01:14:37,105 David: This was every conversation I had 1129 01:14:37,207 --> 01:14:40,808 with anyone even remotely related to David d'amato. 1130 01:14:40,910 --> 01:14:44,044 "I can't tell you anything, but stay away. " 1131 01:14:44,146 --> 01:14:46,613 But all I want to do is the opposite. 1132 01:14:46,715 --> 01:14:50,183 Someone has to confront this bully, lawsuits or not. 1133 01:15:04,131 --> 01:15:08,166 Dylan: Okay. So, this is the car we're looking for. 1134 01:15:08,268 --> 01:15:11,902 It's a Mercedes benz ml430. 1135 01:15:17,675 --> 01:15:20,876 David: David d'amato has gone out of his way to avoid us. 1136 01:15:20,978 --> 01:15:23,845 We figure if we wait outside his apartment long enough, 1137 01:15:23,947 --> 01:15:25,913 eventually he'll have to leave. 1138 01:15:26,916 --> 01:15:29,082 Dylan: So, that's a Chevrolet. 1139 01:15:30,318 --> 01:15:31,684 Oh, hang on a second, what's this? 1140 01:15:31,786 --> 01:15:32,885 What's this? What's this? 1141 01:15:33,687 --> 01:15:35,219 Okay, there's a car there. I can see it. 1142 01:15:35,321 --> 01:15:37,487 Now, just in the edge. Hang on. 1143 01:15:43,528 --> 01:15:44,994 David: A grand cherokee. 1144 01:15:46,964 --> 01:15:48,229 Well, maybe just a cherokee. 1145 01:15:48,331 --> 01:15:50,197 But it's certainly not a Mercedes. 1146 01:15:56,171 --> 01:15:59,372 - David: What's the time? - Dylan: 2:44. 1147 01:15:59,474 --> 01:16:02,374 So we've been here for, like, four hours? 1148 01:16:06,446 --> 01:16:09,246 David: We've been waiting like this for days. 1149 01:16:10,515 --> 01:16:11,580 Dylan: Come on. 1150 01:16:11,582 --> 01:16:14,616 David: And it seems like he'll never come out. 1151 01:16:16,820 --> 01:16:18,586 Dylan: Okay. Let me just check. It's also... 1152 01:16:18,688 --> 01:16:23,724 It is the right type of car. It's got white plates. 1153 01:16:24,359 --> 01:16:26,192 Hang on. Hang on. Okay. 1154 01:16:27,995 --> 01:16:29,594 It's him. It's him. It's him. It's him. 1155 01:16:32,966 --> 01:16:34,932 He's coming out. Just wait here. 1156 01:16:35,034 --> 01:16:37,300 Just sit here. All right, stay cool. 1157 01:16:38,403 --> 01:16:39,735 Okay, I'm gonna... 1158 01:16:46,876 --> 01:16:48,208 Okay, he's up here. 1159 01:16:55,883 --> 01:16:57,749 He's in the right-hand... Is he in the left-hand Lane? 1160 01:16:57,851 --> 01:16:59,150 David: Yeah. 1161 01:17:02,353 --> 01:17:03,585 He hasn't turned right. He's in... 1162 01:17:03,687 --> 01:17:04,752 Whoa! You're one car behind him. 1163 01:17:04,854 --> 01:17:07,621 You're right in his... In his mirror now. 1164 01:17:25,838 --> 01:17:28,437 - I'm breathing heavily. - Yeah, same. 1165 01:17:29,606 --> 01:17:32,106 Dylan: Okay. Okay. It's cool. 1166 01:17:32,241 --> 01:17:34,107 We're right behind him now, so back off a bit, 1167 01:17:34,209 --> 01:17:35,674 so we're not gonna be too close. 1168 01:17:37,778 --> 01:17:39,344 Okay. 1169 01:17:40,714 --> 01:17:43,114 Just stay... stay back. Stay back, David. 1170 01:17:43,416 --> 01:17:44,948 We're gonna have to stop right behind him now. 1171 01:17:45,050 --> 01:17:47,016 You might have to take the camera off the tripod, dom. 1172 01:17:48,185 --> 01:17:49,951 David: Yeah, camera off tripod, please. 1173 01:17:51,721 --> 01:17:52,986 Dylan: Starbucks? Okay, this is perfect. 1174 01:17:53,088 --> 01:17:54,287 David: Okay. He'll be a while. 1175 01:17:55,556 --> 01:17:57,855 Okay. I'm just gonna go and have conversation when he comes out. 1176 01:18:00,059 --> 01:18:01,858 You've... I've got my phone if you need me. 1177 01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:03,292 Okay. 1178 01:18:15,372 --> 01:18:17,171 David: I'm about to meet this man who's been 1179 01:18:17,273 --> 01:18:18,672 such a threatening figure 1180 01:18:18,774 --> 01:18:21,974 in so many lives, including my own, 1181 01:18:23,711 --> 01:18:26,878 and I have simply no idea what to expect. 1182 01:18:52,004 --> 01:18:55,138 - Dylan: He's coming out. - David: Mr. d'amato. 1183 01:18:55,907 --> 01:18:58,474 - Hi, it's Dave farrier. - D'amato: 1184 01:18:58,576 --> 01:19:00,208 David: Hey, how are you? 1185 01:19:01,477 --> 01:19:03,243 D'amato: 1186 01:19:03,411 --> 01:19:06,377 David: I just wanted to talk to you briefly. 1187 01:19:07,246 --> 01:19:08,545 If I could. 1188 01:19:09,781 --> 01:19:12,314 Because I was just... I'm just worried about... 1189 01:19:15,419 --> 01:19:16,851 The legal letters you've sent me, 1190 01:19:16,986 --> 01:19:18,385 and I just wanted to know if we could 1191 01:19:18,588 --> 01:19:20,287 just talk about it face-to-face. 1192 01:19:20,389 --> 01:19:23,123 D'amato: 1193 01:19:23,258 --> 01:19:24,590 David: Is there? 1194 01:19:24,692 --> 01:19:28,126 D'amato: 1195 01:19:35,201 --> 01:19:38,101 I'm on a journalism visa, so I'm, I'm okay to be here. 1196 01:19:38,203 --> 01:19:40,035 I'm okay to be here. But I just... 1197 01:19:42,205 --> 01:19:43,938 Could we just talk a little bit about... 1198 01:19:44,907 --> 01:19:46,973 I just wanted to find out what's going on. 1199 01:19:47,241 --> 01:19:48,540 D'amato: 1200 01:19:48,642 --> 01:19:52,142 Because the last heard I was gonna be in a us court 1201 01:19:52,277 --> 01:19:53,376 and a New Zealand court, 1202 01:19:53,378 --> 01:19:56,011 and I really just wanted to sort this out face-to-face. 1203 01:19:56,113 --> 01:19:57,345 D'amato: 1204 01:19:57,447 --> 01:19:58,779 And I just want to sort of... 1205 01:19:58,881 --> 01:20:00,280 I mean, I'm not here to antagonize. 1206 01:20:00,382 --> 01:20:02,815 I just genuinely want to be able to help out. 1207 01:20:02,917 --> 01:20:05,150 D'amato: 1208 01:20:05,252 --> 01:20:07,051 Well, you did say you were gonna sue me. 1209 01:20:07,319 --> 01:20:09,152 And I just wanna sort this issue out. 1210 01:20:10,588 --> 01:20:12,321 D'amato: 1211 01:20:12,423 --> 01:20:14,389 Could you contact me if possible? 1212 01:20:38,914 --> 01:20:41,147 David: I went away feeling numb. 1213 01:20:41,415 --> 01:20:45,182 D'amato was calm, going instantly to legal threats, 1214 01:20:45,684 --> 01:20:49,352 which is what he's always done, I suppose, as Terri, 1215 01:20:49,854 --> 01:20:51,186 as Jane, 1216 01:20:51,821 --> 01:20:53,020 as himself. 1217 01:20:59,460 --> 01:21:02,727 But after all this, I still couldn't help but wonder 1218 01:21:02,829 --> 01:21:04,728 were we totally certain that d'amato 1219 01:21:04,830 --> 01:21:08,164 really was Jane and Debbie? Could we be wrong? 1220 01:21:09,333 --> 01:21:11,666 So we went back to where it all started, 1221 01:21:11,768 --> 01:21:13,267 those 300 domain names 1222 01:21:13,369 --> 01:21:16,002 connected to the nederdietsen group. 1223 01:21:18,639 --> 01:21:21,339 And that's when things went a little crazy. 1224 01:21:21,841 --> 01:21:23,240 On one of those domain names 1225 01:21:23,342 --> 01:21:25,342 there was just a directory listing, 1226 01:21:25,677 --> 01:21:28,577 including a folder called "my documents". 1227 01:21:32,015 --> 01:21:33,781 It looks like d'amato has accidently 1228 01:21:33,883 --> 01:21:36,750 made hundreds of his private files public 1229 01:21:37,152 --> 01:21:38,518 on the Internet. 1230 01:21:44,158 --> 01:21:45,891 There's d'amato's signature 1231 01:21:45,959 --> 01:21:48,792 on a nederdietsen registration form. 1232 01:21:51,696 --> 01:21:54,463 There's also a contract with the investigation company 1233 01:21:54,565 --> 01:21:56,197 he hired to look into us. 1234 01:21:56,666 --> 01:21:58,465 The address is exactly the same 1235 01:21:58,567 --> 01:22:00,900 as the address used by Jane o'brien media 1236 01:22:01,002 --> 01:22:03,902 when booking rooms at the Hilton in New Zealand. 1237 01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:08,973 Then there are documents and signatures 1238 01:22:09,075 --> 01:22:11,741 for Debbie kuhn and Jane o'brien... 1239 01:22:13,644 --> 01:22:16,244 Who's also got her own credit card. 1240 01:22:17,413 --> 01:22:18,879 And it turns out that d'amato 1241 01:22:19,014 --> 01:22:21,147 did finally get that law degree, 1242 01:22:21,249 --> 01:22:24,250 from hofstra university in 2011. 1243 01:22:26,387 --> 01:22:29,388 He's also been telling the boys to enter the United States 1244 01:22:29,490 --> 01:22:32,557 on a tourist visa, even though they're working. 1245 01:22:34,060 --> 01:22:35,559 And it's finally clear to me 1246 01:22:35,661 --> 01:22:37,927 how he funds his tickling empire. 1247 01:22:40,097 --> 01:22:41,663 As of late 2012, 1248 01:22:41,765 --> 01:22:45,098 he had almost six million in his checking account. 1249 01:22:46,234 --> 01:22:48,968 And his living expenses were being paid by a trust 1250 01:22:49,070 --> 01:22:50,969 established by his father. 1251 01:22:54,441 --> 01:22:57,275 He also inherited millions from his mother's estate 1252 01:22:57,377 --> 01:22:59,409 when she died in 2014. 1253 01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:03,946 It's all family money. 1254 01:23:07,551 --> 01:23:09,484 There are also lots of emails 1255 01:23:09,586 --> 01:23:12,019 sent from Jane o'brien's legal department. 1256 01:23:13,288 --> 01:23:17,089 With this in mind, we call in to see Romeo salta, 1257 01:23:17,191 --> 01:23:19,491 the lawyer hired by Jane o'brien media 1258 01:23:19,593 --> 01:23:22,093 who's been sending us all the legal threats. 1259 01:23:22,862 --> 01:23:25,162 We want to ask him about the correspondence 1260 01:23:25,264 --> 01:23:26,930 his office has sent us. 1261 01:23:27,432 --> 01:23:29,665 David: But I just thought you'd be curious to see... 1262 01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:32,433 Things been issued in la county court, 1263 01:23:32,535 --> 01:23:34,468 that's signed off here with your name. 1264 01:23:34,903 --> 01:23:37,603 There's another example of that with that email address. 1265 01:23:37,705 --> 01:23:38,603 Romeo: Yeah. 1266 01:23:38,605 --> 01:23:41,305 To that, as opposed to you. I mean, we got the one from you originally, 1267 01:23:41,307 --> 01:23:43,006 which we... it's fine. We don't need to talk about that. 1268 01:23:43,108 --> 01:23:45,007 It's very simple. I only sent one. 1269 01:23:45,109 --> 01:23:46,174 Dylan: Yeah. 1270 01:23:46,276 --> 01:23:47,341 David: Yeah. 1271 01:23:47,443 --> 01:23:48,842 - There's your answer. - Yeah. 1272 01:23:50,412 --> 01:23:52,178 Romeo: I'll see what I can do to make those stop. 1273 01:23:52,280 --> 01:23:53,612 Have they stopped? 1274 01:23:53,780 --> 01:23:55,146 Dylan: Uh, we haven't heard anything for a little while. 1275 01:23:55,248 --> 01:23:56,280 They're listing your address 1276 01:23:56,382 --> 01:23:58,014 as their corporate headquarters, though. 1277 01:24:00,118 --> 01:24:01,817 - My address? - Yeah, if you look at... 1278 01:24:01,919 --> 01:24:02,984 David: Your office. 1279 01:24:04,487 --> 01:24:05,553 Dylan: Janeobrienmedia. Com, 1280 01:24:05,554 --> 01:24:06,620 your address is listed as their corporate headquarters. 1281 01:24:06,989 --> 01:24:08,888 Yeah, but it's not my... 1282 01:24:08,990 --> 01:24:10,489 Dylan: No, no. On their website at the bottom. 1283 01:24:10,591 --> 01:24:12,290 Romeo: But it's not, um... 1284 01:24:12,659 --> 01:24:14,058 Dylan: I don't know if it's... 1285 01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:15,325 It says "office of corporate counsel 1286 01:24:15,427 --> 01:24:16,692 and New York headquarters. " 1287 01:24:16,794 --> 01:24:18,059 Romeo: Well, that's my address. 1288 01:24:19,495 --> 01:24:21,111 David: Yeah. 1289 01:24:21,112 --> 01:24:22,728 - But it's not their... - It's crazy. But it's... 1290 01:24:22,897 --> 01:24:25,330 Um, I mean, is this weird to you? 1291 01:24:25,432 --> 01:24:26,664 That this person has taken on... 1292 01:24:26,732 --> 01:24:27,997 it is. Of course, it's weird. 1293 01:24:33,503 --> 01:24:35,803 David: Almost every legal letter we'd received from 1294 01:24:35,905 --> 01:24:37,371 from salta was fake. 1295 01:24:37,639 --> 01:24:40,273 Like so many things connected to d'amato, 1296 01:24:40,375 --> 01:24:41,907 they were all just lies, 1297 01:24:42,442 --> 01:24:45,643 lies to support his addiction to tickling videos. 1298 01:24:49,048 --> 01:24:52,482 I started this journey curious about a bizarre sport 1299 01:24:52,584 --> 01:24:54,917 called competitive endurance tickling, 1300 01:24:55,586 --> 01:24:58,753 but I now think this was never even about tickling. 1301 01:25:01,724 --> 01:25:05,025 This is about power, control and harassment. 1302 01:25:05,527 --> 01:25:07,627 It's about one person's twistedness 1303 01:25:07,729 --> 01:25:09,695 and how far that can go. 1304 01:25:09,797 --> 01:25:12,697 One person who's managed to shelter himself with money 1305 01:25:12,799 --> 01:25:15,099 to keep his obsession going. 1306 01:25:15,701 --> 01:25:17,867 But now it's his life exposed. 1307 01:25:18,202 --> 01:25:20,969 For once, it's him on camera. 1308 01:25:26,409 --> 01:25:27,608 Before we leave America, 1309 01:25:27,710 --> 01:25:30,711 there's one last phone call I want to make. 1310 01:25:30,813 --> 01:25:32,879 It's a name we found in the documents, 1311 01:25:32,981 --> 01:25:36,548 one of David d'amato's last surviving family members. 1312 01:25:38,284 --> 01:25:39,349 Dorothy: Hello? 1313 01:25:39,451 --> 01:25:42,318 - Oh, hi. Is that Dorothy? - Yes. 1314 01:25:42,420 --> 01:25:44,386 Oh, hi. My name's David farrier, 1315 01:25:44,488 --> 01:25:47,455 I'm a journalist from New Zealand. How are you? 1316 01:25:47,990 --> 01:25:49,456 - Okay. - Yeah, good. 1317 01:25:49,558 --> 01:25:51,057 Hey, sorry, it's probably a bit of a strange call 1318 01:25:51,159 --> 01:25:52,224 to receive out of the blue, 1319 01:25:52,459 --> 01:25:56,994 but I'm doing a story about, uh, David d'amato. 1320 01:25:59,231 --> 01:26:02,531 - Oh, in what way? - Um... 1321 01:26:03,667 --> 01:26:05,733 He's been... it's the... 1322 01:26:05,901 --> 01:26:08,134 He's sort of back to the tickling stuff again. 1323 01:26:08,569 --> 01:26:09,834 Oh, he is? 1324 01:26:09,936 --> 01:26:13,169 - Yeah, he is. - Oh, god! 1325 01:26:14,338 --> 01:26:16,705 Well, I will tell you that, 1326 01:26:16,807 --> 01:26:20,474 um, I have no contact with him at all. 1327 01:26:21,844 --> 01:26:24,477 I mean, did you think all this had sort of come to an end? 1328 01:26:25,012 --> 01:26:27,078 I did think, of course, it came to an end, 1329 01:26:27,180 --> 01:26:30,514 because he served time, which I'm sure you know. 1330 01:26:30,616 --> 01:26:31,681 Mm. 1331 01:26:31,783 --> 01:26:34,049 But I don't understand, um... 1332 01:26:36,486 --> 01:26:39,419 I don't understand why he went back to doing this. 1333 01:26:41,089 --> 01:26:44,489 I'm, like, in shock. How long has he been doing this? 1334 01:26:46,326 --> 01:26:48,025 It's never stopped. 1335 01:26:52,664 --> 01:26:55,264 I think he has a split personality. 1336 01:26:55,366 --> 01:26:58,766 He's like that fine line between genius and insanity. 1337 01:27:01,637 --> 01:27:05,405 I don't know if he's gay or he's asexual, 1338 01:27:05,507 --> 01:27:08,907 but he's never had a girlfriend that I ever knew of. 1339 01:27:10,543 --> 01:27:13,043 I asked my husband once, um, 1340 01:27:13,145 --> 01:27:16,246 if he would be upset if he found out he was gay. 1341 01:27:16,348 --> 01:27:21,017 And he said that he would be upset but he would get over it. 1342 01:27:21,119 --> 01:27:22,751 But he was an only child, 1343 01:27:22,853 --> 01:27:25,686 and, you know, he wanted grandchildren. 1344 01:27:28,357 --> 01:27:31,724 He had a very, very strange childhood. 1345 01:27:32,693 --> 01:27:36,961 The kids used to make fun of him all the time. 1346 01:27:37,129 --> 01:27:39,596 And she used to... She... his mother. 1347 01:27:39,698 --> 01:27:41,864 He was very close to his mother.. 1348 01:27:42,466 --> 01:27:44,933 And his mother was very protective of him. 1349 01:27:45,035 --> 01:27:50,271 She never let him ride a bike or go skiing or do anything 1350 01:27:50,373 --> 01:27:52,639 because she was always afraid that he would get hurt. 1351 01:27:53,541 --> 01:27:54,873 And from what I understand, 1352 01:27:54,975 --> 01:27:56,708 the kids used to come around the house, 1353 01:27:56,810 --> 01:27:58,309 and they used to make fun of him. 1354 01:27:58,411 --> 01:28:01,945 And once they locked him in a locker in school. 1355 01:28:05,884 --> 01:28:07,483 And, you know, he was a teacher... 1356 01:28:08,819 --> 01:28:10,652 And they threw him out of school. 1357 01:28:11,187 --> 01:28:13,287 You know, I was afraid of him, 1358 01:28:13,822 --> 01:28:18,724 because I'm alone and, um... Yeah, I was afraid of him. 1359 01:28:18,826 --> 01:28:22,093 So, you know, I'm afraid of him. 112371

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