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1
00:00:42,083 --> 00:00:45,753
- Reverend,
you're on duty today.
2
00:00:47,130 --> 00:00:49,465
Can you think-
just think about the man
3
00:00:49,466 --> 00:00:53,135
whom you are going to encounter
in an hour from now,
4
00:00:53,136 --> 00:00:55,804
less than an hour from now.
5
00:00:55,805 --> 00:01:01,935
- I really am going there
without any expectations.
6
00:01:01,936 --> 00:01:07,775
l'm going there to experience
what God has prepared for me,
7
00:01:07,776 --> 00:01:10,277
for him,
for all of those involved,
8
00:01:10,278 --> 00:01:14,448
and l don't
preconceive anything.
9
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Not today.
10
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l will let that happen
as it occurs,
11
00:01:19,412 --> 00:01:21,914
as time gets there.
12
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We have a loving, caring,
13
00:01:25,168 --> 00:01:28,170
forgiving, merciful God,
14
00:01:28,171 --> 00:01:33,008
and in time ofjoy
and in time of need,
15
00:01:33,009 --> 00:01:35,803
in time of trial
or tribulation,
16
00:01:35,804 --> 00:01:37,930
God is always there for us.
17
00:01:37,931 --> 00:01:40,933
l want to make
that presence to them.
18
00:01:40,934 --> 00:01:44,686
- And technically when he is
led to the gurney,
19
00:01:44,687 --> 00:01:46,355
what is your duty then?
20
00:01:46,356 --> 00:01:48,690
- After everything
is completed,
21
00:01:48,691 --> 00:01:50,567
as far as the preparation,
22
00:01:50,568 --> 00:01:55,072
then l walk over, and l stand
as he has allowed me to stand.
23
00:01:55,073 --> 00:01:59,118
l always ask permission
to be able to stand at his feet
24
00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:00,786
and hold his ankle,
25
00:02:00,787 --> 00:02:03,288
and l move toward
that position,
26
00:02:03,289 --> 00:02:05,958
and l place my hand
on his ankle,
27
00:02:05,959 --> 00:02:10,129
and then that's what-
what l do
28
00:02:10,130 --> 00:02:12,131
until death occurs.
29
00:02:13,967 --> 00:02:16,218
- And if there is
no family interested
30
00:02:16,219 --> 00:02:17,845
in taking care
of the body,
31
00:02:17,846 --> 00:02:20,848
the condemned men would end up
right behind you?
32
00:02:20,849 --> 00:02:24,143
- Yes, they end up here
at the state cemetery,
33
00:02:24,144 --> 00:02:26,145
and they're buried
by the state.
34
00:02:27,313 --> 00:02:31,275
No names on the crosses,
only numbers.
35
00:02:36,781 --> 00:02:42,119
- Why does God allow
capital punishment?
36
00:02:44,956 --> 00:02:46,957
- l don't know the answer.
37
00:02:49,460 --> 00:02:51,753
I believe that
there's always a purpose
38
00:02:51,754 --> 00:02:55,299
why God allows
things to happen.
39
00:02:57,302 --> 00:03:00,971
God has created so many things
in this world.
40
00:03:02,265 --> 00:03:04,516
l play golf sometimes.
41
00:03:04,517 --> 00:03:07,269
I love to be on
the golf course,
42
00:03:07,270 --> 00:03:12,441
because one thing I do,
l put my phone on a silent mode.
43
00:03:12,442 --> 00:03:16,862
I go out there sometimes
by myself with no distractions,
44
00:03:16,863 --> 00:03:19,031
and I can see
the beautiful grass.
45
00:03:19,032 --> 00:03:22,201
l can see the squirrels,
from time to time, running.
46
00:03:22,202 --> 00:03:24,203
Sometimes
the deer are running.
47
00:03:24,204 --> 00:03:26,997
Sometimes l look across
the golf course,
48
00:03:26,998 --> 00:03:31,126
and l see a cow or a horse,
and-and I-and I stop,
49
00:03:31,127 --> 00:03:35,672
and l acknowledge life.
50
00:03:35,673 --> 00:03:37,507
Life,
51
00:03:37,508 --> 00:03:39,927
the things
that God has created.
52
00:03:39,928 --> 00:03:43,513
- Please describe
an encounter with a squirrel.
53
00:03:43,514 --> 00:03:44,973
- An encounter
with a squirrel,
54
00:03:44,974 --> 00:03:47,559
l was driving the golf cart,
and l was on the golf-
55
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,562
on the cart path,
and l saw two squirrels.
56
00:03:50,563 --> 00:03:53,232
They were chasing each other,
and as l was getting closer,
57
00:03:53,233 --> 00:03:55,025
they were running across
the cart path,
58
00:03:55,026 --> 00:03:56,568
and l put on my brakes,
59
00:03:56,569 --> 00:03:58,654
and they stopped in
the middle of the cart path
60
00:03:58,655 --> 00:04:02,032
and looked at me,
and l said, "How about this?
61
00:04:02,033 --> 00:04:03,408
"lf l wouldn't have stopped,
62
00:04:03,409 --> 00:04:05,994
"l could have run over
one of these squirrels.
63
00:04:05,995 --> 00:04:08,247
Their life would have ended."
64
00:04:08,248 --> 00:04:10,249
[voice breaks]
And that reminds me...
65
00:04:15,338 --> 00:04:19,925
of the many people
that l have been with
66
00:04:19,926 --> 00:04:23,887
in their last breath of life,
67
00:04:23,888 --> 00:04:30,185
and due to bad choices and
mistakes in their life, they-
68
00:04:30,186 --> 00:04:34,439
their life is taken away
in that moment.
69
00:04:35,942 --> 00:04:41,947
So life is precious,
whether it's a squirrel
70
00:04:41,948 --> 00:04:44,783
or a human being.
71
00:04:44,784 --> 00:04:50,580
So l will sometimes meditate
on that experience.
72
00:04:50,581 --> 00:04:54,793
Make a little noise,
and the squirrels will take off
73
00:04:54,794 --> 00:04:56,920
and continue their life,
74
00:04:56,921 --> 00:04:58,839
but l cannot do that.
75
00:05:02,343 --> 00:05:05,512
For someone on the gurney,
76
00:05:05,513 --> 00:05:10,767
l cannot stop the process
for them.
77
00:05:15,189 --> 00:05:17,607
But l wish l could.
78
00:05:22,071 --> 00:05:24,239
[exhales]
79
00:07:40,585 --> 00:07:42,043
- Good, yeah.
80
00:07:42,044 --> 00:07:43,420
You are not wired yet,
81
00:07:43,421 --> 00:07:45,672
so we have to
wire you first.
82
00:08:13,576 --> 00:08:15,494
Michael Perry,
now from all of us,
83
00:08:15,495 --> 00:08:16,870
the whole team here,
84
00:08:16,871 --> 00:08:19,664
we would like to offer
our condolences.
85
00:08:20,666 --> 00:08:23,793
Your father passed away.
86
00:08:23,794 --> 00:08:25,462
- Right, on the 10th.
87
00:08:25,463 --> 00:08:27,005
My dad died 13 days ago.
88
00:08:27,006 --> 00:08:28,381
- 13 days ago.
89
00:08:28,382 --> 00:08:29,758
- Yeah, on June 10th.
90
00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:32,260
- But you will die or you are
scheduled for execution...
91
00:08:32,261 --> 00:08:33,678
- Right.
92
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,680
- ln only eight days.
- Yes, sir.
93
00:08:35,681 --> 00:08:37,474
- How are you doing?
94
00:08:37,475 --> 00:08:39,684
- You know-you know,
l'm a Christian, so, you know,
95
00:08:39,685 --> 00:08:41,478
l believe that, you know,
paradise awaits
96
00:08:41,479 --> 00:08:43,855
one way or the other,
so l tell people all the time,
97
00:08:43,856 --> 00:08:46,650
l'm either going home
or home, so...
98
00:08:46,651 --> 00:08:49,152
l'm either going home
to the world or home to God,
99
00:08:49,153 --> 00:08:52,030
so l-you know,
as the days get closer,
100
00:08:52,031 --> 00:08:54,658
l can feel the pressure
on my shoulders.
101
00:08:54,659 --> 00:08:57,160
They call it clinical depression
where l just start having
102
00:08:57,161 --> 00:09:00,747
less motivation to do things,
less energy.
103
00:09:00,748 --> 00:09:02,666
You get frustrated at the-
at the system.
104
00:09:02,667 --> 00:09:08,046
How can they not see, you know,
my situation is wrong?
105
00:09:08,047 --> 00:09:09,756
You know, l-l used to
write all the time
106
00:09:09,757 --> 00:09:11,258
and have a lot of energy,
107
00:09:11,259 --> 00:09:12,717
and I just don't
have it anymore.
108
00:09:12,718 --> 00:09:14,928
l just feel like
l've been beaten down.
109
00:09:14,929 --> 00:09:18,557
- I have the feeling
that destiny, in a way,
110
00:09:18,558 --> 00:09:22,227
has dealt you
a very bad deck of cards.
111
00:09:22,228 --> 00:09:24,354
lt does not exonerate you,
112
00:09:24,355 --> 00:09:26,815
and-and when l talk to you,
113
00:09:26,816 --> 00:09:30,569
it does not necessarily mean
that l have to like you,
114
00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:33,071
but l respect you,
and you are a human being,
115
00:09:33,072 --> 00:09:35,490
and l think human beings
should not be executed.
116
00:09:35,491 --> 00:09:36,950
- Mm-hmm.
- As simply as that.
117
00:09:36,951 --> 00:09:38,243
- Right.
118
00:09:40,955 --> 00:09:44,082
[eerie instrumental music]
119
00:09:44,083 --> 00:09:52,090
♪ ♪
120
00:12:03,055 --> 00:12:06,891
- Lieutenant, this looks
idyllic and safe.
121
00:12:06,892 --> 00:12:08,351
- Well, and you would
think that.
122
00:12:08,352 --> 00:12:10,186
This is a gated community,
obviously.
123
00:12:10,187 --> 00:12:13,857
The houses that are out here
are very large houses,
124
00:12:13,858 --> 00:12:15,233
very expensive houses,
125
00:12:15,234 --> 00:12:16,693
and you would think
that this is-
126
00:12:16,694 --> 00:12:18,069
this is a very quiet area,
127
00:12:18,070 --> 00:12:23,491
and you would, l guess,
associate that with security.
128
00:12:23,492 --> 00:12:25,660
But this house right here
is actually the house
129
00:12:25,661 --> 00:12:28,413
where Sandra Stotler
was murdered.
130
00:12:28,414 --> 00:12:32,041
This is where Michael Perry
and Jason Burkett
131
00:12:32,042 --> 00:12:33,418
parked out on the street
132
00:12:33,419 --> 00:12:36,379
and went in and-
and murdered her.
133
00:12:36,380 --> 00:12:37,797
At the time
that we found her,
134
00:12:37,798 --> 00:12:39,257
she was actually
baking cookies,
135
00:12:39,258 --> 00:12:40,717
and there was evidence
of that.
136
00:12:40,718 --> 00:12:42,218
There was-there was
cookies out.
137
00:12:42,219 --> 00:12:44,637
There was cookie dough out.
138
00:12:44,638 --> 00:12:48,349
So she was in the process
of that when she was killed.
139
00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:52,729
- But apparently
the first plan was not murder.
140
00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:55,690
- Well, and that was something
that we were told,
141
00:12:55,691 --> 00:12:58,359
that initially the-
the boys were all-
142
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,029
when l say "boys,"
Michael Perry, Jason Burkett,
143
00:13:01,030 --> 00:13:02,697
Adam Stotler,
and Jeremy Richardson-
144
00:13:02,698 --> 00:13:04,115
they were acquaintances
145
00:13:04,116 --> 00:13:06,117
through, you know,
some mutual friends.
146
00:13:06,118 --> 00:13:08,077
They weren't
really friends themselves,
147
00:13:08,078 --> 00:13:09,662
but they-they were
acquaintances,
148
00:13:09,663 --> 00:13:14,292
and what we were told was-
is that they came here
149
00:13:14,293 --> 00:13:17,629
with the intention
of trying to get Adam Stotler
150
00:13:17,630 --> 00:13:19,088
to allow them
to stay the night
151
00:13:19,089 --> 00:13:21,132
by telling them they didn't have
a place to stay,
152
00:13:21,133 --> 00:13:23,885
and they were going to try
to get the keys to the car
153
00:13:23,886 --> 00:13:25,303
and steal it.
154
00:13:25,304 --> 00:13:26,721
That's what they were after,
155
00:13:26,722 --> 00:13:30,099
was the red Camaro
that was in the garage.
156
00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:32,435
Upon going to the door
and talking to the mother,
157
00:13:32,436 --> 00:13:34,729
and she said that they were out,
the boys were out,
158
00:13:34,730 --> 00:13:36,105
and so they left,
159
00:13:36,106 --> 00:13:37,649
and that's when
their plan changed,
160
00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:40,860
that they were just going to
kill her and take the car.
161
00:13:40,861 --> 00:13:43,196
So they went back up
to the door,
162
00:13:43,197 --> 00:13:45,031
and the garage was open,
163
00:13:45,032 --> 00:13:47,700
and the door going into
the house was open.
164
00:13:47,701 --> 00:13:50,119
Michael Perry,
by his own admission,
165
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,455
entered that garage door
and went into the laundry room
166
00:13:52,456 --> 00:13:55,124
at the time that Jason Burkett
knocked on the front door.
167
00:13:55,125 --> 00:13:56,543
And as their truck
was out here,
168
00:13:56,544 --> 00:13:58,336
he told them
that the truck wouldn't start
169
00:13:58,337 --> 00:14:01,631
and they needed to call someone
to come and assist them.
170
00:14:01,632 --> 00:14:03,716
So she let him in the house
to use the telephone,
171
00:14:03,717 --> 00:14:05,093
and while he was doing that,
172
00:14:05,094 --> 00:14:07,053
Michael Perry stepped
out of the laundry room
173
00:14:07,054 --> 00:14:09,472
and knocked on
the back garage door,
174
00:14:09,473 --> 00:14:11,558
which made her come
and answer it,
175
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,977
and he stepped out from the
laundry room from behind her,
176
00:14:13,978 --> 00:14:15,895
and that's when he shot her.
177
00:14:18,274 --> 00:14:21,192
The actual garage door itself
was open
178
00:14:21,193 --> 00:14:23,820
when our deputies
arrived on the scene.
179
00:15:27,176 --> 00:15:28,551
The master bedroom,
180
00:15:28,552 --> 00:15:30,219
which is in the back part
of the house
181
00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:32,055
behind the garage over here,
182
00:15:32,056 --> 00:15:34,557
they went in,
and they took the top bedding,
183
00:15:34,558 --> 00:15:37,226
the blanket and the-
the top sheet,
184
00:15:37,227 --> 00:15:39,562
and that's what they
wrapped her in.
185
00:15:39,563 --> 00:15:41,397
They brought her out,
put her in the truck,
186
00:15:41,398 --> 00:15:43,733
and they drove her out
to Crater Lake
187
00:15:43,734 --> 00:15:45,568
to dispose of her body.
188
00:15:47,988 --> 00:15:49,364
- And how does it happen?
189
00:15:49,365 --> 00:15:50,949
Was it drugs?
190
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:52,742
- You know, l don't know
that there was ever
191
00:15:52,743 --> 00:15:54,911
any direct evidence
as far as, you know,
192
00:15:54,912 --> 00:15:56,913
drugs relating particularly
to this case.
193
00:15:56,914 --> 00:16:00,583
l mean, honestly, it was just-
you know, they had a car.
194
00:16:00,584 --> 00:16:02,835
You know, this lady owned a car
that they wanted,
195
00:16:02,836 --> 00:16:05,296
so, you know, it was-
196
00:16:05,297 --> 00:16:08,341
unfortunately, you know,
people died for a theft.
197
00:16:29,196 --> 00:16:30,571
other than it being dark,
198
00:16:30,572 --> 00:16:33,950
this is pretty much
the way it was
199
00:16:33,951 --> 00:16:35,743
that night
when we came out here.
200
00:16:47,339 --> 00:16:51,134
You'll see all kinds of debris
and trash here, as l said.
201
00:16:51,135 --> 00:16:56,264
This is-was pretty commonly
used for a dumping ground.
202
00:16:56,265 --> 00:16:59,225
They've pulled lots of vehicles
out of-out of Crater Lake.
203
00:16:59,226 --> 00:17:01,728
We've had, actually,
a few other bodies
204
00:17:01,729 --> 00:17:05,148
that we've-that we've gotten
out of Crater Lake.
205
00:17:05,149 --> 00:17:07,316
This is Crater Lake here.
206
00:17:07,317 --> 00:17:08,818
This little area right here,
207
00:17:08,819 --> 00:17:13,489
this is where the tire treads
in the dirt was actually here.
208
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,326
At the time that they first
came down here,
209
00:17:17,327 --> 00:17:19,287
they actually
backed up to that
210
00:17:19,288 --> 00:17:20,913
and tried to slam
on their brakes,
211
00:17:20,914 --> 00:17:22,749
hoping to eject the body
in the water,
212
00:17:22,750 --> 00:17:24,500
and that didn't work,
so, again,
213
00:17:24,501 --> 00:17:26,377
that was just something that-
that we heard.
214
00:17:26,378 --> 00:17:28,838
l don't know that that's
actually what happened,
215
00:17:28,839 --> 00:17:30,840
but you could tell from-
216
00:17:30,841 --> 00:17:33,676
there wasn't any distinct
tire wear in the ground.
217
00:17:33,677 --> 00:17:35,511
You could just tell
that a tire-
218
00:17:35,512 --> 00:17:38,347
tires had been
spinning there, so...
219
00:17:38,348 --> 00:17:39,849
So it seemed to
fit the story,
220
00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:41,768
but they ended up
getting the body
221
00:17:41,769 --> 00:17:44,145
and-and carrying it out here,
222
00:17:44,146 --> 00:17:46,439
and it was just dropped
in the water.
223
00:18:54,967 --> 00:18:57,301
We didn't know when we
processed the scene here
224
00:18:57,302 --> 00:19:00,388
and when we processed
Sandra Stotler's residence,
225
00:19:00,389 --> 00:19:01,764
we still did not know
226
00:19:01,765 --> 00:19:03,766
that we had any other victims
other than her.
227
00:19:08,772 --> 00:19:12,066
This is the gated community
of Highland Ranch.
228
00:19:12,067 --> 00:19:14,277
lnside those gates
is the house
229
00:19:14,278 --> 00:19:18,072
where Sandra Stotler
was murdered.
230
00:19:18,073 --> 00:19:20,825
When Michael Perry
and Jason Burkett came back here
231
00:19:20,826 --> 00:19:22,952
to get the Camaro
that they were after,
232
00:19:22,953 --> 00:19:24,787
these gates were-
were shut and locked,
233
00:19:24,788 --> 00:19:26,497
so they didn't have access
to it,
234
00:19:26,498 --> 00:19:28,916
so they waited around
and parked
235
00:19:28,917 --> 00:19:33,379
until Adam Stotler and
Jeremy Richardson returned home,
236
00:19:33,380 --> 00:19:36,924
and that's when they got them to
come out in the woods with them
237
00:19:36,925 --> 00:19:39,594
and-and murdered them
so that they could get
238
00:19:39,595 --> 00:19:42,054
basically the clicker
to come back and get access in-
239
00:19:42,055 --> 00:19:43,431
you know, into this gate
240
00:19:43,432 --> 00:19:45,016
so that they could go back
to the house
241
00:19:45,017 --> 00:19:46,434
and take the Camaro.
242
00:19:46,435 --> 00:19:49,103
- So only because they
didn't have the code here
243
00:19:49,104 --> 00:19:51,606
and it was closed at night,
244
00:19:51,607 --> 00:19:54,650
two more young people
had to die.
245
00:19:54,651 --> 00:19:56,319
- Yes, sir.
That's correct.
246
00:20:01,158 --> 00:20:04,994
- Lieutenant, Jason Burkett
and Michael Perry
247
00:20:04,995 --> 00:20:07,663
bragged about
what they had done.
248
00:20:07,664 --> 00:20:10,958
How clear evidence was that?
249
00:20:10,959 --> 00:20:12,877
- Well, because it came
from multiple people.
250
00:20:12,878 --> 00:20:14,253
lt wasn'tjust one.
251
00:20:14,254 --> 00:20:15,755
We got reports
from several people
252
00:20:15,756 --> 00:20:17,131
from the different hangouts
253
00:20:17,132 --> 00:20:19,091
that they had said
that they had killed people.
254
00:20:19,092 --> 00:20:20,843
That's how they got
the vehicles.
255
00:21:11,186 --> 00:21:12,728
lt was pretty convincing.
256
00:21:12,729 --> 00:21:14,397
l mean, we believed it.
257
00:21:14,398 --> 00:21:17,191
Although, again, we-
we didn't have evidence
258
00:21:17,192 --> 00:21:19,360
that we had other bodies
at the time.
259
00:21:20,612 --> 00:21:22,697
- only after Perry confessed,
260
00:21:22,698 --> 00:21:26,450
he pointed you to the location
of the two young boys.
261
00:21:27,786 --> 00:21:29,120
- Yes, sir.
262
00:22:11,747 --> 00:22:13,205
- As soon as l found out
my mother-
263
00:22:13,206 --> 00:22:14,582
her body had been found,
264
00:22:14,583 --> 00:22:16,917
that whole week
is just a blur.
265
00:22:16,918 --> 00:22:18,294
l was watching the news.
266
00:22:18,295 --> 00:22:19,837
lt was Monday morning,
267
00:22:19,838 --> 00:22:23,007
and I saw helicopters flying
over Ronny's truck stop here.
268
00:22:23,008 --> 00:22:27,595
Well, we live a mile,
and l had a glimmer of hope.
269
00:22:27,596 --> 00:22:31,098
l said, "Adam got away.
He's found his way home."
270
00:22:31,099 --> 00:22:33,934
Because that's the exit you'd
get off to come to my house.
271
00:22:33,935 --> 00:22:35,436
So l told my husband.
272
00:22:35,437 --> 00:22:37,480
I said, "Get in the car.
We're going down there."
273
00:22:37,481 --> 00:22:39,023
'Cause they showed
the crime scene,
274
00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:40,775
the helicopters.
275
00:22:40,776 --> 00:22:42,943
My brother's car
was there on the news.
276
00:22:42,944 --> 00:22:44,612
So we went up
to Ronny's truck stop,
277
00:22:44,613 --> 00:22:47,365
and l saw all that stuff
on the car,
278
00:22:47,366 --> 00:22:49,116
and I'm like,
"oh, that's not Adam's car.
279
00:22:49,117 --> 00:22:50,910
He doesn't have all that stuff
on there."
280
00:22:50,911 --> 00:22:52,620
- "Stuff" meaning?
281
00:22:52,621 --> 00:22:55,164
- The stickers and the-
- "Gauge," "A.B."?
282
00:22:55,165 --> 00:22:56,582
- Yeah, l saw all that stuff.
283
00:22:56,583 --> 00:22:58,250
I was like,
"oh, that's not his car."
284
00:23:04,925 --> 00:23:07,343
You know, and then l looked at
the license plate.
285
00:23:07,344 --> 00:23:09,595
The car was riddled
with bullets,
286
00:23:09,596 --> 00:23:14,517
and they had just
chased them down
287
00:23:14,518 --> 00:23:17,144
and caught them at
the apartment complex,
288
00:23:17,145 --> 00:23:20,606
and I was kind of
trailing behind them,
289
00:23:20,607 --> 00:23:22,525
and they left to go
to the hospital,
290
00:23:22,526 --> 00:23:24,985
and they told me-
l was like, "Please tell me,"
291
00:23:24,986 --> 00:23:27,863
because Adam had been missing
now since Wednesday,
292
00:23:27,864 --> 00:23:29,323
and it was now Monday,
and I said,
293
00:23:29,324 --> 00:23:31,325
"Please tell me,
was Adam with them?"
294
00:23:31,326 --> 00:23:32,827
And they said,
"Adam got shot,
295
00:23:32,828 --> 00:23:35,246
and they took him
to the hospital."
296
00:23:35,247 --> 00:23:39,208
Now, Michael Perry
is still saying he's Adam.
297
00:23:39,209 --> 00:23:41,544
He got out ofjail.
He bonded out ofjail.
298
00:23:53,181 --> 00:23:55,850
- Perry just had his lD.
299
00:23:55,851 --> 00:23:57,685
You believed...
- l believed he was alive.
300
00:23:57,686 --> 00:23:59,353
- Your brother was safe,
only wounded,
301
00:23:59,354 --> 00:24:02,189
because you were told
Adam was safe...
302
00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:03,566
- Was shot.
303
00:24:03,567 --> 00:24:05,151
- And shot
but in hospital.
304
00:24:05,152 --> 00:24:07,528
- And l-you know,
l was like...[sighs]
305
00:24:07,529 --> 00:24:10,322
Thank God.
306
00:24:10,323 --> 00:24:11,824
So l started calling
the hospitals
307
00:24:11,825 --> 00:24:14,034
trying to figure out
which hospital he was at,
308
00:24:14,035 --> 00:24:16,620
and l described him,
and she's like-
309
00:24:16,621 --> 00:24:18,414
l finally got a nurse
who would talk to me,
310
00:24:18,415 --> 00:24:21,417
and she's like, "That's not
the kid that's here, ma'am."
311
00:24:21,418 --> 00:24:26,797
- But you had hopes, l mean,
substantial hopes
312
00:24:26,798 --> 00:24:29,675
that your brother Adam
was wounded but safe.
313
00:24:29,676 --> 00:24:31,051
- Yes.
- Alive.
314
00:24:31,052 --> 00:24:32,428
- Yeah.
315
00:24:32,429 --> 00:24:34,430
- And all of a sudden...
316
00:24:34,431 --> 00:24:37,099
- My world was ripped out
from underneath me.
317
00:24:39,561 --> 00:24:41,562
Everyone was gone.
318
00:24:45,734 --> 00:24:48,068
l called Lieutenant Davidson,
319
00:24:48,069 --> 00:24:51,739
and he told me to come down
to the police station,
320
00:24:51,740 --> 00:24:53,282
and l told him,
321
00:24:53,283 --> 00:24:55,409
"l'm watching you on TV
right now.
322
00:24:55,410 --> 00:24:57,912
Just tell me
if that's Adam."
323
00:24:57,913 --> 00:24:59,580
And he said,
"l really would like you
324
00:24:59,581 --> 00:25:01,916
to come down
to the station."
325
00:25:01,917 --> 00:25:03,876
And l said, "Just tell me."
326
00:25:03,877 --> 00:25:06,045
And he said,
"Yeah, it's Adam."
327
00:25:06,046 --> 00:25:07,713
He said, "lt's Adam,"
328
00:25:07,714 --> 00:25:10,466
and my knees gave out,
329
00:25:10,467 --> 00:25:13,469
and l never knew that your knees
really went weak, you know,
330
00:25:13,470 --> 00:25:15,554
but that saying is true,
"Weak in the knees."
331
00:25:15,555 --> 00:25:17,556
My knees went weak,
and l fell to the floor.
332
00:25:27,651 --> 00:25:29,735
- This is Lindsey Lane.
333
00:25:29,736 --> 00:25:32,238
This is where we were directed
on this road
334
00:25:32,239 --> 00:25:34,865
by Michael Perry
in his confession
335
00:25:34,866 --> 00:25:36,992
that we would find
two additional bodies
336
00:25:36,993 --> 00:25:39,161
ofAdam Stotler
and Jeremy Richardson.
337
00:25:43,708 --> 00:25:45,543
We came down this road,
and then we split up.
338
00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:46,919
We went to the end
of the road,
339
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,004
and we actually walked
back this way
340
00:25:49,005 --> 00:25:52,591
and discovered
Adam's body.
341
00:26:00,350 --> 00:26:01,934
They lured them
into this area
342
00:26:01,935 --> 00:26:04,228
by telling them that there was
a mutual friend of theirs
343
00:26:04,229 --> 00:26:06,564
that had gotten hurt
while they were hunting.
344
00:26:10,443 --> 00:26:13,529
This house obviously
was not here at the time.
345
00:26:13,530 --> 00:26:14,989
You can see,
as this is coming out,
346
00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:16,365
how it's coming around,
347
00:26:16,366 --> 00:26:18,867
so it's gonna be
somewhere about-
348
00:26:18,868 --> 00:26:20,703
somewhere in that concrete
is gonna be
349
00:26:20,704 --> 00:26:22,705
about where his body
was discovered.
350
00:26:32,465 --> 00:26:34,550
once we actually
processed the scene
351
00:26:34,551 --> 00:26:36,552
and we moved the body,
once we moved the body,
352
00:26:36,553 --> 00:26:39,138
there was a cigarette butt
under it, which we collected,
353
00:26:39,139 --> 00:26:42,558
and there was also another
cigarette butt close by,
354
00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:44,143
but the one that was
under his body,
355
00:26:44,144 --> 00:26:46,478
once we submitted it
to the state lab for DNA,
356
00:26:46,479 --> 00:26:48,981
it had Michael Perry's DNA
on it.
357
00:26:48,982 --> 00:26:51,066
- Which means the body
had fallen-
358
00:26:51,067 --> 00:26:52,443
- Had fallen on the cigarette
359
00:26:52,444 --> 00:26:54,486
after it was already discarded
on the ground.
360
00:26:56,615 --> 00:26:58,949
The other body
was Jeremy Richardson.
361
00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:01,285
From where we actually
found his body,
362
00:27:01,286 --> 00:27:04,038
it was so dense with trees,
we couldn't even get into it.
363
00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:05,998
l don't know
how he got into it.
364
00:27:05,999 --> 00:27:08,542
We couldn't hardly even get into
it without taking machetes
365
00:27:08,543 --> 00:27:10,544
and-and cutting back
some of the brush.
366
00:27:13,757 --> 00:27:15,758
Jeremy, he ran
for some distance
367
00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:17,176
while he was being shot at.
368
00:27:17,177 --> 00:27:18,552
l don't know
if it was 'cause
369
00:27:18,553 --> 00:27:20,888
he heard the gunshots here
and got startled,
370
00:27:20,889 --> 00:27:22,556
or if Jason pointed
the shotgun at him,
371
00:27:22,557 --> 00:27:24,558
and he realized it
before he was actually shot,
372
00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:26,226
and he took off running.
373
00:27:35,612 --> 00:27:39,615
- Charles, you lost
your brother, Jeremy.
374
00:27:39,616 --> 00:27:42,743
Do you remember the moment
when you heard about it?
375
00:27:45,372 --> 00:27:46,872
- l was in Georgia,
376
00:27:46,873 --> 00:27:49,625
and l got a phone call
from my aunt
377
00:27:49,626 --> 00:27:52,044
saying for me to call home.
378
00:27:52,045 --> 00:27:53,754
Something bad had happened.
379
00:27:55,548 --> 00:27:56,924
l tried to call.
380
00:27:56,925 --> 00:27:59,259
l didn't have no money
at the time,
381
00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:01,428
and my phone wouldn't let me
call long distance,
382
00:28:01,429 --> 00:28:05,641
so l tried to call collect,
and my grandpa hung up on me.
383
00:28:05,642 --> 00:28:07,267
He didn't want to-
384
00:28:07,268 --> 00:28:09,603
he didn't even want to pay
$2 to talk to me
385
00:28:09,604 --> 00:28:12,272
to tell me
my brother was dead.
386
00:28:14,192 --> 00:28:17,236
l had to actually
get my aunt to call
387
00:28:17,237 --> 00:28:18,904
and find out
what was going on,
388
00:28:18,905 --> 00:28:23,951
and then she called me back,
and my first thought was-
389
00:28:23,952 --> 00:28:26,412
just because on the phone
she says,
390
00:28:26,413 --> 00:28:27,913
"Do you know Jason Burkett?"
391
00:28:27,914 --> 00:28:29,373
l said, "Yeah."
392
00:28:29,374 --> 00:28:31,125
She said,
"Well, something's happened,
393
00:28:31,126 --> 00:28:34,336
and your brother's dead,"
and, uh...
394
00:28:48,351 --> 00:28:50,602
My-my first thought was,
you know,
395
00:28:50,603 --> 00:28:54,106
Jason was just driving,
being stupid
396
00:28:54,107 --> 00:28:57,943
the way he normally was
and had wrecked,
397
00:28:57,944 --> 00:28:59,319
and then she told me no,
398
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,406
that Jason shot my brother
over a car.
399
00:29:03,616 --> 00:29:05,659
l-l just fell out.
400
00:29:05,660 --> 00:29:07,661
l fell out.
401
00:29:09,956 --> 00:29:13,751
My uncle came
and picked me up, and, uh...
402
00:29:14,794 --> 00:29:17,296
We just went
driving around.
403
00:29:17,297 --> 00:29:19,214
- And your father?
404
00:29:19,215 --> 00:29:20,591
Where was he?
405
00:29:20,592 --> 00:29:22,259
- He was in prison.
406
00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:24,094
- How serious?
407
00:29:25,930 --> 00:29:27,306
- Well, it was the first time
408
00:29:27,307 --> 00:29:30,976
he was in jail for murder,
in prison for murder.
409
00:29:30,977 --> 00:29:33,312
- Life sentence?
410
00:29:33,313 --> 00:29:35,814
- Well, no.
411
00:29:35,815 --> 00:29:39,485
He-he was doing
his 15-year sentence first,
412
00:29:39,486 --> 00:29:41,153
and then he was out
for about a year,
413
00:29:41,154 --> 00:29:44,531
and then he went
and got a life sentence,
414
00:29:44,532 --> 00:29:46,784
and he's just getting out
after that.
415
00:29:48,244 --> 00:29:50,913
- And you flew in
for the funeral?
416
00:29:50,914 --> 00:29:52,539
- Yeah, l flew in
for the funeral.
417
00:29:55,001 --> 00:30:00,005
The cops said l had jumped bond,
and the cops were there to-
418
00:30:00,006 --> 00:30:05,719
to take me to jail
over my brother's-
419
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:10,098
Can I tell 'em
what it was for or...
420
00:30:10,099 --> 00:30:12,100
l mean, would it be okay
to tell 'em,
421
00:30:12,101 --> 00:30:14,520
you know, it was
a drug possession?
422
00:30:14,521 --> 00:30:17,022
- So you took the jail time
for your brother,
423
00:30:17,023 --> 00:30:18,398
and you were arrested?
424
00:30:18,399 --> 00:30:20,067
- Yeah, at the funeral.
425
00:30:20,068 --> 00:30:21,485
The cops came in there.
426
00:30:21,486 --> 00:30:25,656
There was six cops came in
and identified me
427
00:30:25,657 --> 00:30:30,160
and told me they were gonna
take me to jail right then.
428
00:30:30,161 --> 00:30:32,037
l asked them, you know,
could I at least stay
429
00:30:32,038 --> 00:30:34,039
for my brother's funeral.
430
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,542
- And the teardrops,
the tattoos,
431
00:30:36,543 --> 00:30:38,502
what do they signify?
432
00:30:38,503 --> 00:30:42,756
- l lost my-
my brother and my sister.
433
00:30:42,757 --> 00:30:44,132
- Brother murdered.
434
00:30:44,133 --> 00:30:46,593
Your sister,
what happened to her?
435
00:30:46,594 --> 00:30:48,178
- She was coming
to my house,
436
00:30:48,179 --> 00:30:51,849
and she crossed the freeway,
437
00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:54,184
and she got ran over
by a car.
438
00:30:56,855 --> 00:31:00,482
- Tell me about
your brother Jeremy.
439
00:31:00,483 --> 00:31:02,317
Can you show us?
440
00:31:10,869 --> 00:31:13,787
- Jeremy was-he was-
441
00:31:13,788 --> 00:31:15,706
he was just the golden child.
442
00:31:19,377 --> 00:31:22,713
He was a good kid,
trusted his friends.
443
00:31:28,094 --> 00:31:33,765
He would get in trouble just-
just to-
444
00:31:33,766 --> 00:31:35,726
to have that attention,
445
00:31:35,727 --> 00:31:37,519
but he wouldn't
do nothing serious.
446
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,688
He would-he would never
do anything too serious.
447
00:31:39,689 --> 00:31:43,859
He got in trouble for
making people laugh, you know,
448
00:31:43,860 --> 00:31:46,278
talking during class, you know,
stuff like that.
449
00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:47,779
He was a very sociable person.
450
00:31:47,780 --> 00:31:50,365
Everybody loved him,
and, uh...
451
00:31:52,702 --> 00:31:54,369
Everybody said that
I was the one
452
00:31:54,370 --> 00:31:59,249
that was supposed to be dead
before l was 21 and not Jeremy.
453
00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:00,626
- And you loved him.
454
00:32:00,627 --> 00:32:02,628
- of course.
455
00:32:05,715 --> 00:32:08,467
He was my-
he was my best friend.
456
00:32:10,595 --> 00:32:12,512
He was my best friend
growing up.
457
00:32:12,513 --> 00:32:14,181
He's all l had.
458
00:32:17,393 --> 00:32:18,977
- You took care of him.
459
00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:23,607
- l tried.
460
00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:30,405
Turns out the only thing
l did was hurt him.
461
00:32:30,406 --> 00:32:33,200
l introduced him to the people
that killed him.
462
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:44,086
He'd tell me all the time,
463
00:32:44,087 --> 00:32:46,755
it was me and him
against the world.
464
00:32:49,968 --> 00:32:52,094
I tell my wife
the same thing now.
465
00:32:55,098 --> 00:32:57,099
lt's just me and him
against the world.
466
00:33:06,109 --> 00:33:09,361
- l believe from the time
that we got the initial call
467
00:33:09,362 --> 00:33:11,405
until they were caught,
it was within a week.
468
00:33:11,406 --> 00:33:14,199
lt was, l believe,
five to seven days.
469
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,661
- And you arrived at the scene
where they were apprehended?
470
00:33:17,662 --> 00:33:19,121
- Yes, sir.
471
00:33:19,122 --> 00:33:21,540
- Can you describe?
472
00:33:21,541 --> 00:33:22,916
Was it mayhem?
473
00:33:22,917 --> 00:33:24,418
- Yes, sir, it was.
474
00:33:24,419 --> 00:33:26,086
There was a truck stop-
475
00:33:26,087 --> 00:33:28,046
actually, the truck stop's
not there anymore,
476
00:33:28,047 --> 00:33:30,215
but it was at the-kind of
the side parking lot
477
00:33:30,216 --> 00:33:31,591
of a truck stop,
478
00:33:31,592 --> 00:33:33,427
and there was
an abandoned warehouse,
479
00:33:33,428 --> 00:33:35,762
and then on the other side
of that, an apartment complex,
480
00:33:35,763 --> 00:33:39,266
so the entire scene spanned
from that parking lot
481
00:33:39,267 --> 00:33:41,768
all the way well into
the apartment complex.
482
00:33:44,856 --> 00:33:46,523
There was shotgun shells.
483
00:33:46,524 --> 00:33:49,026
There was cartridge casings
where they had exchanged fire
484
00:33:49,027 --> 00:33:50,819
with the officers
that were there.
485
00:33:50,820 --> 00:33:52,195
There was wrecked vehicles,
486
00:33:52,196 --> 00:33:54,698
and, I mean, there was
just people everywhere.
487
00:33:56,701 --> 00:33:59,661
- And the police officer
was run over?
488
00:33:59,662 --> 00:34:01,163
- Yes, sir, his leg.
489
00:34:04,042 --> 00:34:05,876
There was a vehicle
wrecked out,
490
00:34:05,877 --> 00:34:08,211
and all the glass
in the vehicle
491
00:34:08,212 --> 00:34:10,881
had shattered
from the gunshots.
492
00:34:10,882 --> 00:34:14,468
Burkett and Perry both sustained
gunshot wounds.
493
00:34:14,469 --> 00:34:17,804
l believe Jason Burkett
was shot three times,
494
00:34:17,805 --> 00:34:19,306
if l'm not mistaken,
495
00:34:19,307 --> 00:34:21,391
and l'm not really certain
about Michael Perry,
496
00:34:21,392 --> 00:34:24,019
but they-they both had wounds
from gunshots
497
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:27,105
and obviously glass cuts
and scrapes.
498
00:34:55,426 --> 00:34:57,928
- So there was a wild,
hot pursuit,
499
00:34:57,929 --> 00:35:00,555
and you were
in this wild chase.
500
00:35:00,556 --> 00:35:02,516
Did you actually open fire
at them or...
501
00:35:02,517 --> 00:35:03,892
- What had happened-
502
00:35:03,893 --> 00:35:05,852
- l don't want to be
too indiscreet, but l think-
503
00:35:05,853 --> 00:35:07,229
- Well, l can tell you.
504
00:35:07,230 --> 00:35:08,605
l can tell you.
l pled guilty.
505
00:35:08,606 --> 00:35:10,941
l've got 10 years done on
a 15-year sentence for it, so...
506
00:35:10,942 --> 00:35:12,859
- I see, yeah.
- We were asleep.
507
00:35:12,860 --> 00:35:14,778
We had been drinking
the night before.
508
00:35:14,779 --> 00:35:16,154
We were sleeping
in the car
509
00:35:16,155 --> 00:35:17,823
because we couldn't
get to the motel,
510
00:35:17,824 --> 00:35:19,825
which was on
the other side of a fence.
511
00:35:21,911 --> 00:35:24,329
l don't remember this other guy
that was in the car with us.
512
00:35:24,330 --> 00:35:25,705
I don't know
how he got with us.
513
00:35:25,706 --> 00:35:27,082
l don't know his name.
514
00:35:27,083 --> 00:35:28,792
l don't know anything
about him.
515
00:35:28,793 --> 00:35:30,377
Michael Perry and me
were drinking,
516
00:35:30,378 --> 00:35:33,880
and somehow this guy
got with us that night.
517
00:35:33,881 --> 00:35:38,343
l remember getting woke up
and getting shot in the car.
518
00:35:38,344 --> 00:35:39,719
l looked around.
519
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:41,179
Michael Perry
wasn't next to me.
520
00:35:41,180 --> 00:35:42,597
lt was some other kid
next to me,
521
00:35:42,598 --> 00:35:44,057
but Perry was in the backseat,
522
00:35:44,058 --> 00:35:46,893
and Perry tried to get
out of the car in the back,
523
00:35:46,894 --> 00:35:48,270
and then he shut the door.
524
00:35:48,271 --> 00:35:51,356
l started the truck,
and I went to flee,
525
00:35:51,357 --> 00:35:53,400
and everybody says,
"You shouldn't have ran.
526
00:35:53,401 --> 00:35:54,776
You shouldn't have ran."
527
00:35:54,777 --> 00:35:56,444
l had just been shot,
528
00:35:56,445 --> 00:35:58,947
and the only way for me
to not to get shot again
529
00:35:58,948 --> 00:36:00,615
was to get out of there,
530
00:36:00,616 --> 00:36:02,784
and l wasn't thinking clearly.
531
00:36:02,785 --> 00:36:04,202
l didn't know about a murder.
532
00:36:04,203 --> 00:36:06,037
l didn't know about
what they were looking-
533
00:36:06,038 --> 00:36:07,414
l didn't know the extent.
534
00:36:07,415 --> 00:36:09,040
I didn't even know
they knew who l was.
535
00:36:09,041 --> 00:36:11,918
And when l drove off,
536
00:36:11,919 --> 00:36:13,461
the officer was
right in front of me.
537
00:36:13,462 --> 00:36:14,880
l drove to the right,
538
00:36:14,881 --> 00:36:18,425
and he shot me through the door
right here in my arm.
539
00:36:18,426 --> 00:36:21,094
- How badly were you wounded?
540
00:36:21,095 --> 00:36:22,470
- l was shot right here.
541
00:36:22,471 --> 00:36:23,972
- Can you show it higher for me?
542
00:36:23,973 --> 00:36:26,516
- l was shot right here
in my wrist.
543
00:36:26,517 --> 00:36:29,352
I was shot right here
in my hand, my finger.
544
00:36:29,353 --> 00:36:31,646
l was shot right here.
545
00:36:31,647 --> 00:36:33,481
l was shot right here,
546
00:36:33,482 --> 00:36:36,818
and l was shot right here.
547
00:36:36,819 --> 00:36:41,156
Right here, I had a piece
of the car door in my side.
548
00:36:41,157 --> 00:36:44,492
- Still lodged in your side?
549
00:36:44,493 --> 00:36:46,995
So how do you get through
a metal detector?
550
00:36:46,996 --> 00:36:49,539
- Well, it came out afterwards.
It came out.
551
00:36:49,540 --> 00:36:51,333
lt did finally come out
in the jail.
552
00:36:51,334 --> 00:36:55,128
Right here in my collarbone,
I had a piece of glass
553
00:36:55,129 --> 00:36:57,756
from the car door,
went inside.
554
00:37:01,761 --> 00:37:04,554
I crashed into a building
because l couldn't steer.
555
00:37:04,555 --> 00:37:06,223
My blood's all in the truck.
556
00:37:06,224 --> 00:37:08,558
They said,
"Well, your DNA's on the gun."
557
00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:10,185
My DNA's on everything
in there.
558
00:37:10,186 --> 00:37:13,021
l was shot.
My DNA was on Michael Perry.
559
00:37:13,022 --> 00:37:15,523
My DNA was on every seat
in there from being shot.
560
00:37:15,524 --> 00:37:17,651
Blood went everywhere.
561
00:37:22,448 --> 00:37:25,700
Whenever l crashed,
l jumped out and ran.
562
00:37:25,701 --> 00:37:27,077
l ran.
563
00:37:27,078 --> 00:37:29,120
l ran in the building.
564
00:37:29,121 --> 00:37:31,039
There was cops
shooting at the building
565
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,540
where we were crashed into.
566
00:37:32,541 --> 00:37:35,502
They were shooting
from every direction.
567
00:37:35,503 --> 00:37:39,673
The window in the back
of the building's like this.
568
00:37:39,674 --> 00:37:41,299
You can't get through it.
569
00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:44,386
l shot one time with the gun
through the window.
570
00:37:44,387 --> 00:37:45,971
l probably shouldn't
have done that,
571
00:37:45,972 --> 00:37:47,764
but l was trapped,
and l was panicking.
572
00:37:47,765 --> 00:37:49,307
l didn't know
what to do.
573
00:37:49,308 --> 00:37:51,810
And when we got through there,
we ran to some apartments,
574
00:37:51,811 --> 00:37:56,022
and, you know, l-l carried Perry
half the way,
575
00:37:56,023 --> 00:37:59,192
but, I mean,
we got to the apartment.
576
00:37:59,193 --> 00:38:02,612
- You-you dealt with it
like real tough men.
577
00:38:02,613 --> 00:38:04,531
l remember reading somewhere
578
00:38:04,532 --> 00:38:07,534
that Michael Perry shouted,
"This is it.
579
00:38:07,535 --> 00:38:10,036
Put the balls at the walls,"
or something.
580
00:38:10,037 --> 00:38:12,706
"Let's bolt.
Let's fight back."
581
00:38:12,707 --> 00:38:15,041
Can you remember
something like that?
582
00:38:15,042 --> 00:38:17,711
- l remember reading that
they said, "Balls to the walls,"
583
00:38:17,712 --> 00:38:19,337
or, you know, something.
584
00:38:19,338 --> 00:38:20,714
l don't recall him
saying it.
585
00:38:20,715 --> 00:38:22,090
He could have said it.
586
00:38:22,091 --> 00:38:24,301
- Too much commotion.
Too many bullets flying.
587
00:38:24,302 --> 00:38:26,511
- l didn't really understand
what was happening.
588
00:38:26,512 --> 00:38:28,847
All l knew is, where we were at,
we could not stay there.
589
00:38:28,848 --> 00:38:30,265
- Yeah.
590
00:38:30,266 --> 00:38:33,393
- And-and he was screaming,
"Balls to the walls," they say.
591
00:38:33,394 --> 00:38:36,563
- Well, um, how can l say?
592
00:38:36,564 --> 00:38:39,774
l-l don't want to go into
the details of-
593
00:38:39,775 --> 00:38:41,192
of what happened,
594
00:38:41,193 --> 00:38:45,989
but fact is that
three people were killed.
595
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:47,407
- Mm-hmm.
596
00:38:47,408 --> 00:38:52,912
- And you deny that you were
even close to the scene or-
597
00:38:52,913 --> 00:38:54,289
how-how do you-
598
00:38:54,290 --> 00:38:55,874
- Well, there's no longer
a question.
599
00:38:55,875 --> 00:38:57,792
There's no longer a question
of my innocence.
600
00:38:57,793 --> 00:38:59,252
That's-question
is out the door.
601
00:38:59,253 --> 00:39:01,838
The question is, what is anyone
gonna do about it now?
602
00:39:01,839 --> 00:39:05,592
l mean, a perfect example is,
you're here with these guys.
603
00:39:05,593 --> 00:39:07,427
They show up
at your hotel room in a car.
604
00:39:07,428 --> 00:39:09,554
You're gonna assume that
that car is-
605
00:39:09,555 --> 00:39:11,056
you know,
these are your friends,
606
00:39:11,057 --> 00:39:13,016
so when Jason shows up
to pick me up in a car,
607
00:39:13,017 --> 00:39:14,434
l'm gonna assume it's okay.
608
00:39:14,435 --> 00:39:15,935
You get in it,
and you get arrested,
609
00:39:15,936 --> 00:39:18,521
and you come to find out he just
murdered someone from that car,
610
00:39:18,522 --> 00:39:20,190
you're gonna end up
on Texas death row.
611
00:39:20,191 --> 00:39:21,566
You're gonna end up
right here
612
00:39:21,567 --> 00:39:23,151
because you trusted
one of these guys
613
00:39:23,152 --> 00:39:24,903
to show up and pick you up
in a-in a real car
614
00:39:24,904 --> 00:39:26,863
that wasn'tjust stolen.
615
00:39:26,864 --> 00:39:29,657
- But trusting in Jason
was a bad choice.
616
00:39:29,658 --> 00:39:31,910
- oh, absolutely.
- l mean, let's face it.
617
00:39:31,911 --> 00:39:34,746
He was some sort of a bad apple,
and so-so were you.
618
00:39:34,747 --> 00:39:37,374
- l was homeless and starving,
so it was-
619
00:39:37,375 --> 00:39:40,794
- And using drugs
and stealing.
620
00:39:40,795 --> 00:39:43,296
- He offered me drugs.
He offered me a place to stay.
621
00:39:43,297 --> 00:39:45,590
He offered me food,
so l chose-
622
00:39:45,591 --> 00:39:47,217
l chose that,
which l shouldn't have.
623
00:39:47,218 --> 00:39:49,260
I regret it every-
every minute now.
624
00:39:49,261 --> 00:39:51,721
Cherish every minute, huh?
625
00:39:51,722 --> 00:39:53,098
Cherish every minute.
626
00:39:53,099 --> 00:39:55,892
Make the most of it because,
you know,
627
00:39:55,893 --> 00:39:57,685
they can-they can-
they can do you like me.
628
00:39:57,686 --> 00:39:59,521
Be in the wrong situation
at the wrong time,
629
00:39:59,522 --> 00:40:01,231
and there's no telling
where you end up.
630
00:40:01,232 --> 00:40:03,608
You might want to get out of
Texas as soon as possible, huh?
631
00:40:03,609 --> 00:40:05,402
They might arrest you
any-any second, huh?
632
00:40:45,943 --> 00:40:47,360
- l went over
to my buddy's house.
633
00:40:47,361 --> 00:40:50,155
There was a guy there,
and he wanted to fight me,
634
00:40:50,156 --> 00:40:55,618
and he run up on me
as l got out of the truck,
635
00:40:55,619 --> 00:40:57,871
and-and I just
kind of blew him off.
636
00:40:57,872 --> 00:40:59,247
You know what l mean?
637
00:40:59,248 --> 00:41:01,374
"Just go on, man,
go on about your business."
638
00:41:01,375 --> 00:41:04,002
And everybody said he was saying
he was gonna stab me
639
00:41:04,003 --> 00:41:05,837
when l got out of the truck.
640
00:41:05,838 --> 00:41:07,338
You know,
it kind of pissed me off,
641
00:41:07,339 --> 00:41:10,008
so l-l went back,
found the dude,
642
00:41:10,009 --> 00:41:13,511
and run up on him,
and l was taking off my shirt,
643
00:41:13,512 --> 00:41:16,347
and I threw my-threw my
shirt up like that, you know,
644
00:41:16,348 --> 00:41:18,183
and threw it up
over my elbow.
645
00:41:18,184 --> 00:41:20,685
l was gonna take it off,
and when l did that,
646
00:41:20,686 --> 00:41:23,354
he hit me right here
with a screwdriver, you know,
647
00:41:23,355 --> 00:41:26,024
a screwdriver about that long,
and it was a Phillips,
648
00:41:26,025 --> 00:41:28,193
you know, them little skinny,
long screwdrivers.
649
00:41:28,194 --> 00:41:32,197
lt sunk in to the handle,
and after that, uh...
650
00:41:32,198 --> 00:41:34,782
- All the way to the handle?
- All the way to the handle.
651
00:41:34,783 --> 00:41:36,284
- How did it happen?
652
00:41:36,285 --> 00:41:40,455
- Man, it's probably,
probably about right in there.
653
00:41:40,456 --> 00:41:43,458
lt went straight-
straight through under my arm,
654
00:41:43,459 --> 00:41:44,834
into my chest,
655
00:41:44,835 --> 00:41:47,253
and l never went to the hospital
or anything.
656
00:41:47,254 --> 00:41:49,672
- And what did you feel?
You felt the-
657
00:41:49,673 --> 00:41:52,175
- Yeah, just a-
l felt the-the-
658
00:41:52,176 --> 00:41:54,469
you know, the pressure of it
when it hit.
659
00:41:54,470 --> 00:41:55,845
That's all l felt,
660
00:41:55,846 --> 00:41:57,555
and l kind ofjumped back
out the way,
661
00:41:57,556 --> 00:42:01,518
and-and l looked,
and my buddy threw me a knife,
662
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:03,394
and l looked down at the knife
on the ground,
663
00:42:03,395 --> 00:42:04,771
and l was like, you know,
664
00:42:04,772 --> 00:42:06,773
l'm thinking to myself
in my head, you know,
665
00:42:06,774 --> 00:42:09,108
"I'm going home
to my kids today."
666
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:10,944
You know, so l didn't even
pick it up,
667
00:42:10,945 --> 00:42:14,364
and then my other buddy come out
running by the yard,
668
00:42:14,365 --> 00:42:18,201
and l had to be at work
in 30 minutes.
669
00:42:18,202 --> 00:42:20,578
Matter of fact, l roof-
670
00:42:20,579 --> 00:42:24,582
l was roofing a house
with Jason's brother.
671
00:42:24,583 --> 00:42:27,085
What is it, Chris Burkett?
672
00:42:27,086 --> 00:42:28,586
And l was roofing
a house with him.
673
00:42:28,587 --> 00:42:30,255
- Chris was not in jail
at that time.
674
00:42:30,256 --> 00:42:32,048
- Nah.
675
00:42:32,049 --> 00:42:33,633
- And you went to hospital?
676
00:42:33,634 --> 00:42:35,260
- Nah.
677
00:42:35,261 --> 00:42:36,719
They was asking me
678
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:38,596
if I needed to go
to the hospital or anything,
679
00:42:38,597 --> 00:42:39,973
but itjust-
some, like, puss
680
00:42:39,974 --> 00:42:41,516
and a little bit of blood
come out,
681
00:42:41,517 --> 00:42:44,352
and, you know,
l thought l was good.
682
00:42:44,353 --> 00:42:46,479
Evidently, l guess l am.
683
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,273
So l was lucky there.
684
00:42:54,363 --> 00:42:58,199
- But you have never been in-
in real trouble with the law?
685
00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:59,576
- l had a felony.
686
00:42:59,577 --> 00:43:01,953
That's the only bad-
bad one I had.
687
00:43:01,954 --> 00:43:03,329
- But you're a working man.
688
00:43:03,330 --> 00:43:04,706
- Yes, sir.
- You have a job?
689
00:43:04,707 --> 00:43:06,583
- Yeah, l ain't been in trouble
in four years.
690
00:43:06,584 --> 00:43:08,626
- Can l see your hands?
- Yeah.
691
00:43:08,627 --> 00:43:12,380
- When we shook hands,
I noticed your calluses.
692
00:43:12,381 --> 00:43:14,382
You are working...
- Yeah.
693
00:43:14,383 --> 00:43:16,384
- ln a paint shop?
- Yep.
694
00:43:16,385 --> 00:43:18,052
- Cars.
- Yes, sir.
695
00:43:18,053 --> 00:43:20,054
- Solid work.
- Yes, sir.
696
00:43:20,055 --> 00:43:21,639
- And the tattoo in here?
697
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,392
Can l see this?
Can you show it?
698
00:43:24,393 --> 00:43:27,395
- Bailey.
699
00:43:27,396 --> 00:43:29,522
- You had been with her
when you met Burkett?
700
00:43:29,523 --> 00:43:30,982
- Nah.
- Not yet, uh-huh.
701
00:43:30,983 --> 00:43:32,358
- No.
702
00:43:32,359 --> 00:43:34,485
l've been with her
for three years,
703
00:43:34,486 --> 00:43:37,280
and l got a 17-month-old baby
with her.
704
00:43:37,281 --> 00:43:39,657
- oh, yeah.
So you are staying with her?
705
00:43:39,658 --> 00:43:41,451
- Yeah.
706
00:43:41,452 --> 00:43:42,994
- Now the tattoo is forever.
707
00:43:42,995 --> 00:43:44,829
- Yeah, it's forever.
708
00:43:44,830 --> 00:43:47,165
They just don't come off.
709
00:43:47,166 --> 00:43:51,753
- And what happens if
the relationship unravels?
710
00:43:51,754 --> 00:43:53,713
What happens to "Bailey"?
711
00:43:53,714 --> 00:43:56,049
- Guess l'm gonna have to get
"Bailey sucks" right there.
712
00:43:56,050 --> 00:43:58,009
[laughs]
713
00:44:06,352 --> 00:44:09,020
- Can you talk about
Jason Burkett?
714
00:44:09,021 --> 00:44:11,356
How did you meet him?
How did you know him?
715
00:44:11,357 --> 00:44:13,816
What do you know about him?
716
00:44:13,817 --> 00:44:15,693
- First time l ever met him,
717
00:44:15,694 --> 00:44:17,612
seemed like a pretty cool guy,
you know?
718
00:44:17,613 --> 00:44:18,988
So we hung out,
719
00:44:18,989 --> 00:44:21,282
and l introduced him to
a few girls and everything,
720
00:44:21,283 --> 00:44:25,036
and then we used to
go huntin' together.
721
00:44:27,206 --> 00:44:30,124
one time,
he tried to kill me.
722
00:44:30,125 --> 00:44:32,293
l introduced him
to these girls,
723
00:44:32,294 --> 00:44:34,462
and her dad and him
had something going on.
724
00:44:34,463 --> 00:44:35,838
l don't know.
725
00:44:35,839 --> 00:44:38,091
Well, anyway, he thought
l wanted to get with that girl
726
00:44:38,092 --> 00:44:40,593
and come over
to another girl's house
727
00:44:40,594 --> 00:44:42,595
and rushed me with a gun.
728
00:44:42,596 --> 00:44:44,639
Well, I had this girl
tell me to come outside,
729
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,391
and l was eating supper,
730
00:44:46,392 --> 00:44:48,476
and he rushed me with a gun.
731
00:44:48,477 --> 00:44:50,061
So we fought
for about 45 minutes
732
00:44:50,062 --> 00:44:54,190
with a gun to my head
in this girl's house.
733
00:44:54,191 --> 00:44:57,902
lt was a .22 caliber
single-shot pistol.
734
00:44:57,903 --> 00:45:00,905
Yeah, he held-held it
to my head,
735
00:45:00,906 --> 00:45:03,908
banged me in the head
with it.
736
00:45:03,909 --> 00:45:06,411
We were fighting all through
the house with the gun
737
00:45:06,412 --> 00:45:09,122
till l locked myself
in this bedroom,
738
00:45:09,123 --> 00:45:10,957
and he was gonna
kick in the door,
739
00:45:10,958 --> 00:45:13,251
so l just opened the door
and let him in
740
00:45:13,252 --> 00:45:16,087
because l didn't want him to
tear this girl's dad's house up,
741
00:45:16,088 --> 00:45:18,673
and after that,
we started fighting again,
742
00:45:18,674 --> 00:45:21,384
and he pinned me on the bed,
and he pulled the trigger.
743
00:45:21,385 --> 00:45:22,969
- Where did the bullet go?
744
00:45:22,970 --> 00:45:25,471
- Nah, it misfired,
745
00:45:25,472 --> 00:45:27,098
because the bullet
come out the gun,
746
00:45:27,099 --> 00:45:30,309
and you could tell on
a .22 bullet, there's like-
747
00:45:30,310 --> 00:45:32,645
it's just that round,
flat piece on the bottom.
748
00:45:32,646 --> 00:45:34,480
Well, if the firing pin
ain't long enough,
749
00:45:34,481 --> 00:45:38,151
it don't hit it, and-
and it don't-it won't go off,
750
00:45:38,152 --> 00:45:42,488
but it hit it, but l don't know
why it didn't go off.
751
00:45:42,489 --> 00:45:44,365
- You were lucky.
- Yeah.
752
00:45:44,366 --> 00:45:45,950
- Very lucky.
753
00:45:45,951 --> 00:45:47,452
- Yeah, I kind of
blacked out there.
754
00:45:47,453 --> 00:45:48,911
[laughs]
755
00:45:48,912 --> 00:45:50,580
[spits]
756
00:45:50,581 --> 00:45:54,584
But, yeah, real lucky.
757
00:45:54,585 --> 00:45:57,086
And then him killing
those people, man,
758
00:45:57,087 --> 00:45:59,088
l feel sorry
for their families.
759
00:46:06,138 --> 00:46:09,348
Me and my friend Big Justin
was up at the bar one time,
760
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:13,394
and he come up there with these
new cars, him and Perry,
761
00:46:13,395 --> 00:46:14,771
and we're like, "Man,
762
00:46:14,772 --> 00:46:16,522
where'd y'all get
these new cars at?"
763
00:46:16,523 --> 00:46:18,274
He's like,
"oh, we was holding hands"-
764
00:46:18,275 --> 00:46:19,650
him and Perry
was holding hands
765
00:46:19,651 --> 00:46:22,737
and scratched off
a lottery ticket together
766
00:46:22,738 --> 00:46:24,864
and won them two cars.
767
00:46:24,865 --> 00:46:26,657
Well, me and my buddy
knew it wasn't right,
768
00:46:26,658 --> 00:46:28,826
because they're both felons,
you know what I mean?
769
00:46:28,827 --> 00:46:30,203
Ain't nobody gonna sell them-
770
00:46:30,204 --> 00:46:32,205
ain't neither one
got a driver's license,
771
00:46:32,206 --> 00:46:35,708
so, you know, and-and the cars
were, like, fully loaded,
772
00:46:35,709 --> 00:46:39,378
CDs, skateboards,
and stuff like that in there,
773
00:46:39,379 --> 00:46:43,299
and so we knew something-
something was up with it,
774
00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:46,928
and he started giving people
joy rides up at the bar.
775
00:46:52,559 --> 00:46:55,144
- Jason and Michael
came up to the bar
776
00:46:55,145 --> 00:46:57,855
to show off two new vehicles
that they had purchased,
777
00:46:57,856 --> 00:47:02,652
and at first, we-
nobody really understood.
778
00:47:02,653 --> 00:47:05,404
They explained that they had
purchased a lottery ticket,
779
00:47:05,405 --> 00:47:07,782
and that's how they got
the money to buy the cars,
780
00:47:07,783 --> 00:47:11,744
and at that time, it started
getting a little weird.
781
00:47:11,745 --> 00:47:15,081
- What didn't sound right
about this?
782
00:47:15,082 --> 00:47:17,792
- The amount of
the lottery ticket was $4,000.
783
00:47:17,793 --> 00:47:19,752
They said they cashed it
in a gas station.
784
00:47:19,753 --> 00:47:22,797
That doesn't usually happen.
785
00:47:22,798 --> 00:47:24,632
The vehicles themselves
didn't look like
786
00:47:24,633 --> 00:47:26,008
they just came off a car lot.
787
00:47:26,009 --> 00:47:27,385
- You drove these cars?
788
00:47:27,386 --> 00:47:29,220
- I rode in them.
l didn't drive them.
789
00:47:29,221 --> 00:47:30,721
Yeah, they-
Jason and Michael
790
00:47:30,722 --> 00:47:32,723
were kind of giving everybody
test drives,
791
00:47:32,724 --> 00:47:36,394
and I rode
in both vehicles.
792
00:47:39,273 --> 00:47:41,357
The-the red Camaro,
when I rode in it,
793
00:47:41,358 --> 00:47:43,818
they were showing off guns.
794
00:47:43,819 --> 00:47:45,236
There was a 12-gauge shotgun,
795
00:47:45,237 --> 00:47:46,821
and l don't remember
the other one,
796
00:47:46,822 --> 00:47:50,491
but l did see 'em in the trunk
of the red Camaro that night.
797
00:47:50,492 --> 00:47:54,036
From what l heard, rumors,
you know, they were into-
798
00:47:54,037 --> 00:47:57,331
initially planning on stealing
a car of my roommate
799
00:47:57,332 --> 00:47:58,708
at the house
l was staying at,
800
00:47:58,709 --> 00:48:00,167
and that scared
the hell out of me,
801
00:48:00,168 --> 00:48:01,544
'cause that could've been me.
802
00:48:01,545 --> 00:48:03,254
You know, if he would've
decided to come
803
00:48:03,255 --> 00:48:05,756
and get the car in my driveway,
where would I be?
804
00:48:06,550 --> 00:48:09,010
l've-l've managed
to block it.
805
00:48:09,011 --> 00:48:11,679
l've managed to try
to not deal with it
806
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,848
and not think about it.
807
00:48:18,604 --> 00:48:23,441
l guess being in the situations
that l've been in,
808
00:48:23,442 --> 00:48:25,443
just from being employed
at that bar,
809
00:48:25,444 --> 00:48:30,281
l have seen so many awful things
that I don't deal with them.
810
00:48:30,282 --> 00:48:32,325
I just kind of
put them back.
811
00:48:34,036 --> 00:48:36,579
- Did Jason brag about crimes?
812
00:48:36,580 --> 00:48:39,373
- He never bragged to me
and my buddy Big Justin.
813
00:48:39,374 --> 00:48:41,042
We didn't even know
what had happened,
814
00:48:41,043 --> 00:48:45,129
and they was-they come got us
from Justin's house,
815
00:48:45,130 --> 00:48:47,465
the police did,
and they took us up there,
816
00:48:47,466 --> 00:48:49,675
and they was like,
"Y'all read the paper?"
817
00:48:49,676 --> 00:48:52,386
And l told 'em, well,
I couldn't read,
818
00:48:52,387 --> 00:48:54,305
and then they didn't
believe me,
819
00:48:54,306 --> 00:48:56,766
and they looked at my record
and found out l can't read,
820
00:48:56,767 --> 00:48:59,602
and then, so they read
the paper to me,
821
00:48:59,603 --> 00:49:02,229
and they told me
what they had done.
822
00:49:02,230 --> 00:49:03,606
- Mm-hmm.
823
00:49:03,607 --> 00:49:04,982
Do you read now?
824
00:49:04,983 --> 00:49:06,525
- oh, yeah.
825
00:49:06,526 --> 00:49:09,570
- So late, you started to learn
how to read.
826
00:49:09,571 --> 00:49:11,072
- Yeah, l learned how to read.
827
00:49:11,073 --> 00:49:12,448
- Wonderful, yes?
828
00:49:12,449 --> 00:49:14,909
l find this
a great achievement.
829
00:49:14,910 --> 00:49:17,870
- Yeah, it is awesome.
830
00:49:17,871 --> 00:49:19,830
- You are much more
connected now.
831
00:49:19,831 --> 00:49:22,667
- Yeah.
832
00:49:22,668 --> 00:49:25,211
- How does it feel
not to be able to read?
833
00:49:25,212 --> 00:49:27,254
You have to be much smarter
than the others
834
00:49:27,255 --> 00:49:28,673
to understand
the world anyway.
835
00:49:28,674 --> 00:49:30,341
- Yeah.
836
00:49:30,342 --> 00:49:33,177
It's-it's kind of tough
out there when you can't read,
837
00:49:33,178 --> 00:49:35,346
but, l mean,
'cause they ain't always have
838
00:49:35,347 --> 00:49:37,181
somebody gonna
read it for you.
839
00:49:39,351 --> 00:49:42,645
But, l mean,
l learned how to read in jail
840
00:49:42,646 --> 00:49:46,357
so l could write letters
and read the letters,
841
00:49:46,358 --> 00:49:50,695
and other than that,
l don't plan on going back,
842
00:49:50,696 --> 00:49:54,031
but l'm glad l learned
how to read there.
843
00:49:54,032 --> 00:49:56,534
- And you are doing good now?
- oh, yeah.
844
00:49:56,535 --> 00:49:58,828
Staying busy at the paint
and body shop.
845
00:49:58,829 --> 00:50:00,830
- Reading?
- oh, yeah.
846
00:50:00,831 --> 00:50:02,331
- Writing?
847
00:50:02,332 --> 00:50:04,417
- Not much writing.
848
00:50:04,418 --> 00:50:05,876
A lot of sanding.
849
00:50:05,877 --> 00:50:07,795
[laughs]
850
00:50:09,673 --> 00:50:13,759
- l'm interested in your
relationship with Michael Perry.
851
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,386
How did you two meet?
852
00:50:15,387 --> 00:50:17,013
How does this thing happen?
853
00:50:17,014 --> 00:50:22,685
- In 2000,
l had a girlfriend in 2000.
854
00:50:22,686 --> 00:50:25,563
She had a friend
named Miranda.
855
00:50:25,564 --> 00:50:27,231
l ended up going to jail,
856
00:50:27,232 --> 00:50:29,775
and Miranda, l seen her
on the side of the road
857
00:50:29,776 --> 00:50:32,278
arguing with Michael Perry,
and l said-
858
00:50:32,279 --> 00:50:34,238
l pulled over, and l asked her
what was going on,
859
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:35,906
and she said,
"He's living in my trunk,
860
00:50:35,907 --> 00:50:37,283
"and l can't get him-
861
00:50:37,284 --> 00:50:38,951
"you know, he can't live there
no more.
862
00:50:38,952 --> 00:50:40,327
"My dad's seen him.
863
00:50:40,328 --> 00:50:42,163
"My dad got in a fight with him
this morning.
864
00:50:42,164 --> 00:50:43,539
He can't live there."
865
00:50:43,540 --> 00:50:45,082
So he was living
in the trunk of a car,
866
00:50:45,083 --> 00:50:47,084
and l said, "Well, l don't know
what to tell you."
867
00:50:47,085 --> 00:50:48,794
And she asked me,
"Can he live with you?"
868
00:50:48,795 --> 00:50:50,171
And at that moment,
I told her,
869
00:50:50,172 --> 00:50:52,006
"No, he can't live with me."
870
00:50:52,007 --> 00:50:54,550
And then, l looked at him,
and she's, like, sad and crying,
871
00:50:54,551 --> 00:50:57,928
and she said, "Please, let him
live with you just for a month."
872
00:50:57,929 --> 00:51:00,056
This was when we were living
in the camper trailer,
873
00:51:00,057 --> 00:51:02,433
and I told him,
"You can live with us.
874
00:51:02,434 --> 00:51:06,020
Get your stuff, put it
in my truck, and come home."
875
00:51:06,021 --> 00:51:10,983
And from that day on,
l fed him, gave him money,
876
00:51:10,984 --> 00:51:12,359
took care of him.
877
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,613
He was like a-
like a little brother,
878
00:51:15,614 --> 00:51:17,573
kid brother
that was pushed on you,
879
00:51:17,574 --> 00:51:20,701
and-and when they-he's older
than me by a few months,
880
00:51:20,702 --> 00:51:22,828
but l had to take care of him
because he had nothing.
881
00:51:22,829 --> 00:51:24,580
He had nobody.
882
00:51:24,581 --> 00:51:27,083
Little did l know he had
a very supportive family.
883
00:51:27,084 --> 00:51:29,752
His mom and dad
were both supportive.
884
00:51:29,753 --> 00:51:31,295
He just didn't want
to follow rules.
885
00:51:31,296 --> 00:51:33,547
He was just like me
and didn't want to follow rules,
886
00:51:33,548 --> 00:51:35,466
and that's why he ended up
living with me,
887
00:51:35,467 --> 00:51:38,219
'cause they said,
"Work and you can live with us."
888
00:51:38,220 --> 00:51:40,054
He didn't want to work.
889
00:51:40,055 --> 00:51:44,433
- And you were sent on a
outward Bound trip into Florida.
890
00:51:44,434 --> 00:51:46,060
What happened?
What was that, yeah?
891
00:51:46,061 --> 00:51:47,895
- Well, you know,
l'm a city boy at heart,
892
00:51:47,896 --> 00:51:49,313
you know what l'm saying?
893
00:51:49,314 --> 00:51:51,065
I'm really not into
the nature and bugs
894
00:51:51,066 --> 00:51:53,400
and-and the weather
and, you know.
895
00:51:53,401 --> 00:51:57,655
So, you know, when-they sent me
on a two-week canoe trip.
896
00:51:57,656 --> 00:51:59,323
- Which sounds wonderful
for me, but-
897
00:51:59,324 --> 00:52:01,117
- Yeah, you know, you know,
I like to canoe,
898
00:52:01,118 --> 00:52:02,493
but what it-
what was-
899
00:52:02,494 --> 00:52:04,036
lt wasn't the canoeing
that was bad.
900
00:52:04,037 --> 00:52:05,579
It was that it was
in the Everglades.
901
00:52:05,580 --> 00:52:07,498
l mean, we're seeing alligators
everywhere.
902
00:52:07,499 --> 00:52:08,874
Now, my question is-
903
00:52:08,875 --> 00:52:10,835
and l didn't even realize that
until I got here-
904
00:52:10,836 --> 00:52:12,378
what happened
if l would've fell out
905
00:52:12,379 --> 00:52:13,754
and got eaten by an alligator?
906
00:52:13,755 --> 00:52:15,256
Who would've
been responsible?
907
00:52:15,257 --> 00:52:17,341
You know, did my parents sign
some type ofwaiver?
908
00:52:17,342 --> 00:52:19,260
Because there was
alligators everywhere.
909
00:52:19,261 --> 00:52:21,262
- Well, a young man of 13,
you better watch out
910
00:52:21,263 --> 00:52:23,055
and-and handle
the alligators well, yes.
911
00:52:23,056 --> 00:52:24,431
- Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
912
00:52:24,432 --> 00:52:26,016
- But what happened then?
You didn't-
913
00:52:26,017 --> 00:52:28,310
- Well, l think it was on
the third or fourth day.
914
00:52:28,311 --> 00:52:32,148
We would canoe until, like,
nighttime and pull in.
915
00:52:32,149 --> 00:52:34,859
l guess they had certain
designations marked,
916
00:52:34,860 --> 00:52:36,819
and sometimes we'd pull in,
like, at midnight.
917
00:52:36,820 --> 00:52:39,196
There's bugs-you can reach out
and grab a handful of bugs,
918
00:52:39,197 --> 00:52:40,865
and then they'd want us
to cook dinner,
919
00:52:40,866 --> 00:52:42,575
and, you know, l'm like,
"Man, I can't."
920
00:52:42,576 --> 00:52:44,243
And one of the things
of the program was
921
00:52:44,244 --> 00:52:45,911
to teach you immediate-
922
00:52:45,912 --> 00:52:48,164
you know, every action
there's a-there's a reaction,
923
00:52:48,165 --> 00:52:50,124
so immediate consequences
to your decisions,
924
00:52:50,125 --> 00:52:51,709
and one of the things
I learned is that
925
00:52:51,710 --> 00:52:53,419
if l don't pay attention
to the lessons-
926
00:52:53,420 --> 00:52:54,920
we had these bags
for our property,
927
00:52:54,921 --> 00:52:57,506
and you had to seal them right,
or they wouldn't be waterproof.
928
00:52:57,507 --> 00:52:59,466
Well, l didn't listen,
and it fell in the water,
929
00:52:59,467 --> 00:53:01,635
and all my stuff got wet,
so l didn't have my own tent.
930
00:53:01,636 --> 00:53:03,304
I didn't have no
toilet paper anymore,
931
00:53:03,305 --> 00:53:04,680
and l didn't like that.
932
00:53:04,681 --> 00:53:06,682
So basically, l-l was
my typical stubborn self,
933
00:53:06,683 --> 00:53:08,058
and l told them, "You know what?
934
00:53:08,059 --> 00:53:09,810
l ain't doing this no more.
Take me home."
935
00:53:09,811 --> 00:53:11,770
- But you were not attacked
by alligators, but-
936
00:53:11,771 --> 00:53:13,564
- No, we were attacked
by monkeys, though.
937
00:53:13,565 --> 00:53:14,940
- By monkeys.
What happened?
938
00:53:14,941 --> 00:53:17,026
- Absolutely, monkeys
were jumping from one side
939
00:53:17,027 --> 00:53:18,444
to the trees
on the side we were at
940
00:53:18,445 --> 00:53:19,987
and come-trying
to come over there,
941
00:53:19,988 --> 00:53:22,781
and they couldn't figure out
where the monkeys came from,
942
00:53:23,450 --> 00:53:25,659
but there was
a whole bunch of them,
943
00:53:25,660 --> 00:53:27,161
a whole bunch.
944
00:53:27,162 --> 00:53:28,579
l wanted to get out
and get one,
945
00:53:28,580 --> 00:53:30,789
but they said
they have diseases, right?
946
00:54:04,866 --> 00:54:06,867
- So best-case scenario,
947
00:54:06,868 --> 00:54:10,246
if you are granted parole
in 2041,
948
00:54:10,247 --> 00:54:13,165
how old would you be then?
949
00:54:13,166 --> 00:54:14,667
Does this ever occur to you?
950
00:54:14,668 --> 00:54:16,210
Do you want to
think about it?
951
00:54:16,211 --> 00:54:19,421
- l'll be 59, 60.
952
00:54:19,422 --> 00:54:20,798
l was 19.
953
00:54:20,799 --> 00:54:22,633
l have to do 40 years
from 19,
954
00:54:22,634 --> 00:54:26,887
which will be 59 years old.
955
00:54:26,888 --> 00:54:28,222
Long time.
956
00:54:31,184 --> 00:54:34,353
- When it came to the phase
after your trial was over,
957
00:54:34,354 --> 00:54:38,732
for punishment phase,
your father showed up in court.
958
00:54:40,026 --> 00:54:41,777
Can you describe the scene?
959
00:54:43,405 --> 00:54:44,863
- l knew he was coming,
960
00:54:44,864 --> 00:54:47,449
and l knew what he was gonna
testify to,
961
00:54:47,450 --> 00:54:50,035
but to hear him testify,
it's like-
962
00:54:50,036 --> 00:54:51,912
l was born
with neuroblastomas.
963
00:54:51,913 --> 00:54:54,957
l-l had 18 surgeries
by the time l was five,
964
00:54:54,958 --> 00:54:57,418
and l-l don't know
a lot about it
965
00:54:57,419 --> 00:55:01,338
because it's something
that l try to shy away from.
966
00:55:01,339 --> 00:55:03,924
l knew he was gonna testify
to my raising,
967
00:55:03,925 --> 00:55:06,218
and l was a-
in pain all the time,
968
00:55:06,219 --> 00:55:08,429
and he'd watch me cry to sleep,
and...
969
00:55:10,140 --> 00:55:12,474
It was difficult,
because l seen him cry.
970
00:55:12,475 --> 00:55:14,059
l mean,
if you ever see my dad,
971
00:55:14,060 --> 00:55:18,397
he's 6'6", 6'7", 300 pounds,
big old guy, tattooed.
972
00:55:18,398 --> 00:55:20,232
- And they brought him
in from-from prison.
973
00:55:20,233 --> 00:55:21,608
- He came in from prison.
974
00:55:21,609 --> 00:55:23,777
- ls he still incarcerated?
975
00:55:23,778 --> 00:55:26,280
- He's right across the street
on Ellis Unit.
976
00:55:28,283 --> 00:55:30,492
- Mr. Burkett,
how are you doing?
977
00:55:30,493 --> 00:55:32,619
- Just-l'm doing fine.
978
00:55:32,620 --> 00:55:34,121
Doing fine.
Little sick.
979
00:55:34,122 --> 00:55:36,123
- How fine?
- Little bit sick.
980
00:55:36,124 --> 00:55:38,083
- Mm-hmm.
981
00:55:38,084 --> 00:55:40,502
You are in here
for how many years?
982
00:55:40,503 --> 00:55:41,920
- 40.
983
00:55:41,921 --> 00:55:43,505
- 40 years.
- Yes, sir.
984
00:55:43,506 --> 00:55:45,299
- Eight felony counts,
is that correct?
985
00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:47,718
- Yes, sir.
- That's pretty serious.
986
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:49,219
- Yes, sir.
987
00:55:49,220 --> 00:55:53,223
- And you spent some time before
this 40-year sentence in jail.
988
00:55:53,224 --> 00:55:54,600
ls that correct?
989
00:55:54,601 --> 00:55:55,976
- Yes, sir.
- Yeah.
990
00:55:55,977 --> 00:55:58,479
- l've been in prison
five times.
991
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,731
- How many years already?
992
00:56:00,732 --> 00:56:02,691
- A 2-year sentence,
a 5-year sentence,
993
00:56:02,692 --> 00:56:05,944
a 30-year sentence,
and then this 40.
994
00:56:05,945 --> 00:56:07,946
- That's a lot.
- Yes, sir.
995
00:56:07,947 --> 00:56:10,157
- What went wrong?
996
00:56:10,158 --> 00:56:12,493
- Drugs and alcohol.
997
00:56:12,494 --> 00:56:14,036
- Can you explain?
998
00:56:14,037 --> 00:56:18,540
- Well, l started using drugs
when l was about 13,
999
00:56:18,541 --> 00:56:21,085
drinking and drugging,
and, uh...
1000
00:56:22,504 --> 00:56:25,339
Selling and manufacturing.
1001
00:56:25,340 --> 00:56:27,841
Some stealing and burglarizing
going along with it
1002
00:56:27,842 --> 00:56:29,468
to sup-support the habit
1003
00:56:29,469 --> 00:56:33,472
and always end up
back in prison.
1004
00:56:33,473 --> 00:56:37,559
- There's one significant moment
when Jason, your son,
1005
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,729
was found guilty
for capital murder...
1006
00:56:40,730 --> 00:56:43,107
- Yes.
- And triple homicide.
1007
00:56:43,108 --> 00:56:46,068
During the sentencing phase,
you appeared in court.
1008
00:56:46,069 --> 00:56:49,822
Can you describe what you said
to the jury?
1009
00:56:53,118 --> 00:56:57,037
- Well...
[clears throat]
1010
00:56:57,038 --> 00:57:00,207
I explained to 'em
what prison life was about,
1011
00:57:00,208 --> 00:57:02,876
and I explained-
l explained to 'em
1012
00:57:02,877 --> 00:57:05,671
that l didn't think
killing him
1013
00:57:05,672 --> 00:57:11,009
was gonna bring back those
people or really, you know,
1014
00:57:11,010 --> 00:57:14,388
do anything to correct
what happened,
1015
00:57:14,389 --> 00:57:18,642
and I asked
the jury to, you know,
1016
00:57:18,643 --> 00:57:21,437
"Please, you know,
don't kill my son."
1017
00:57:21,438 --> 00:57:22,813
l asked 'em.
1018
00:57:22,814 --> 00:57:25,190
l said just,
"Please, don't kill my son."
1019
00:57:25,191 --> 00:57:28,193
He never had a chance.
1020
00:57:28,194 --> 00:57:29,778
He didn't have a father.
1021
00:57:29,779 --> 00:57:32,739
l told 'em that, you know,
he did-l was never there,
1022
00:57:32,740 --> 00:57:34,908
and his mother was a, you know,
single mother
1023
00:57:34,909 --> 00:57:36,785
with four children,
1024
00:57:36,786 --> 00:57:39,663
and-and she had handicaps.
1025
00:57:39,664 --> 00:57:42,166
She-she's on disability.
1026
00:57:42,167 --> 00:57:44,960
Most of that time,
she was living on disability,
1027
00:57:44,961 --> 00:57:47,379
and so they-
they really didn't-
1028
00:57:47,380 --> 00:57:49,798
they lived off food stamps,
1029
00:57:49,799 --> 00:57:53,093
and, you know, HUD housing
and that type of thing,
1030
00:57:53,094 --> 00:57:56,805
and-and he-
he really-
1031
00:57:56,806 --> 00:58:01,602
he really had a real poor life
growing up.
1032
00:58:03,438 --> 00:58:05,564
l just asked 'em
not to kill my son.
1033
00:58:05,565 --> 00:58:06,940
lt wasn't his fault.
1034
00:58:06,941 --> 00:58:08,901
l-it-l wished l could-
1035
00:58:08,902 --> 00:58:11,403
I wish that I could
take the time, his time.
1036
00:58:11,404 --> 00:58:15,240
l wish l could, 'cause l feel
like that it's my fault.
1037
00:58:15,241 --> 00:58:17,618
l-l really do.
1038
00:58:17,619 --> 00:58:19,953
l feel like it's-
1039
00:58:19,954 --> 00:58:22,080
l'm as much at fault
as he is,
1040
00:58:22,081 --> 00:58:23,749
'cause if l'd have
been there,
1041
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:25,542
it, quite possibly,
maybe not,
1042
00:58:25,543 --> 00:58:27,544
but-but it might possibly
have been different.
1043
00:58:27,545 --> 00:58:29,796
He'd have had a better chance.
1044
00:58:29,797 --> 00:58:32,299
You know, he'd have
a whole lot better chance,
1045
00:58:32,300 --> 00:58:34,968
if l'd have been there
helping his mother raise him,
1046
00:58:34,969 --> 00:58:36,845
but l wasn't.
1047
00:58:36,846 --> 00:58:39,056
The jury got up to leave,
1048
00:58:39,057 --> 00:58:41,642
and the door was right here
to my right,
1049
00:58:41,643 --> 00:58:44,978
and as the door closed
behind them,
1050
00:58:44,979 --> 00:58:47,105
l heard two ladies
break down.
1051
00:58:47,106 --> 00:58:49,149
l'm-l'm real emotional,
1052
00:58:49,150 --> 00:58:51,652
and l'm crying
through the whole thing,
1053
00:58:51,653 --> 00:58:54,821
but as they went through
that door, and the door closed,
1054
00:58:54,822 --> 00:58:58,659
I heard two ladies
break down crying.
1055
00:58:58,660 --> 00:59:03,330
They broke down,
and then the-
1056
00:59:03,331 --> 00:59:06,333
when it-it was all over
and his lawyer come told me,
1057
00:59:06,334 --> 00:59:08,835
he said-
l remember the-his words.
1058
00:59:08,836 --> 00:59:11,421
He said, "You got him."
1059
00:59:11,422 --> 00:59:12,798
- You saved a life.
1060
00:59:12,799 --> 00:59:14,216
- He said-he said,
"You got him."
1061
00:59:14,217 --> 00:59:16,009
I said,
"What do you mean?"
1062
00:59:16,010 --> 00:59:18,053
He said, "You got him."
1063
00:59:18,054 --> 00:59:19,930
And that's where l-
that's what saved-
1064
00:59:19,931 --> 00:59:21,306
there was two votes.
1065
00:59:21,307 --> 00:59:24,810
lt was ten to two,
and there was two votes
1066
00:59:24,811 --> 00:59:28,355
that voted not to kill him,
1067
00:59:28,356 --> 00:59:32,859
and l think those were the
two ladies right there that-
1068
00:59:32,860 --> 00:59:36,989
they're the ones
that saved his life.
1069
00:59:36,990 --> 00:59:39,449
- But you can be proud
of this moment.
1070
00:59:39,450 --> 00:59:41,201
- Yeah.
1071
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,290
l had some help too.
1072
00:59:46,291 --> 00:59:47,833
God helped me.
1073
00:59:47,834 --> 00:59:49,251
He did.
1074
00:59:49,252 --> 00:59:51,545
l asked God to help me,
and l think He did.
1075
00:59:55,174 --> 00:59:58,885
l didn't deserve
any help for him.
1076
00:59:58,886 --> 01:00:00,887
He may not deserve the help,
1077
01:00:00,888 --> 01:00:04,933
but we got it
from some place, so...
1078
01:00:10,607 --> 01:00:12,316
- The hardest part
was to look at him
1079
01:00:12,317 --> 01:00:13,692
and for him to look at me,
1080
01:00:13,693 --> 01:00:15,193
and l seen that
he was sincere,
1081
01:00:15,194 --> 01:00:16,945
that he really was sorry for,
you know,
1082
01:00:16,946 --> 01:00:18,947
what he had done throughout
my whole childhood,
1083
01:00:18,948 --> 01:00:20,324
and he had been in prison.
1084
01:00:20,325 --> 01:00:21,908
l don't blame him for it,
1085
01:00:21,909 --> 01:00:23,744
but l seen right there
that he understood
1086
01:00:23,745 --> 01:00:26,246
that it did affect us,
and l cried that one day,
1087
01:00:26,247 --> 01:00:28,123
that was it, through the-
the whole trial.
1088
01:00:28,124 --> 01:00:29,708
Even after conviction,
1089
01:00:29,709 --> 01:00:33,420
the only thing that hurt me
was my-my dad testifying.
1090
01:00:35,256 --> 01:00:38,091
- Whenever l went back
and testified,
1091
01:00:38,092 --> 01:00:40,218
his brother went back
and testified too.
1092
01:00:40,219 --> 01:00:42,262
His brother was in-
in prison, Chris,
1093
01:00:42,263 --> 01:00:46,433
and-and we,
me and Chris went-
1094
01:00:46,434 --> 01:00:49,102
came back to
the diagnostics together,
1095
01:00:49,103 --> 01:00:51,104
and then-
and l'm embarrassed,
1096
01:00:51,105 --> 01:00:55,442
but all of three of us,
we had Thanksgiving together,
1097
01:00:55,443 --> 01:01:00,322
me and Chris and Jason over
at the diagnostics unit.
1098
01:01:00,323 --> 01:01:03,867
You know,
and they, uh...
1099
01:01:05,995 --> 01:01:07,371
They think
that's kind of cool,
1100
01:01:07,372 --> 01:01:09,665
but as a father, I thought
that was pretty embarrassing
1101
01:01:09,666 --> 01:01:11,750
to be sitting there
in prison with my sons.
1102
01:01:11,751 --> 01:01:14,628
- All of them incarcerated.
- Yes, sir.
1103
01:01:14,629 --> 01:01:17,756
And then me and Jason went on
over to the next place together,
1104
01:01:17,757 --> 01:01:19,758
handcuffed together
in the bus,
1105
01:01:19,759 --> 01:01:21,593
and that's something that
I never in my life
1106
01:01:21,594 --> 01:01:24,805
would ever dreamed-dreamed of
that would've happened,
1107
01:01:24,806 --> 01:01:28,975
that that same little baby
that was...
1108
01:01:28,976 --> 01:01:32,771
We had to hold him down to
take bone marrow tests out of,
1109
01:01:32,772 --> 01:01:34,773
the same little
6-pound baby.
1110
01:01:34,774 --> 01:01:38,944
- Describe the feeling to me
when you are handcuffed together
1111
01:01:38,945 --> 01:01:42,489
with your own son
in the same bus.
1112
01:01:42,490 --> 01:01:43,907
Can you describe that?
1113
01:01:43,908 --> 01:01:46,618
- No, not really.
It-it's, uh...
1114
01:01:46,619 --> 01:01:48,870
- Try to describe it for us.
1115
01:01:48,871 --> 01:01:51,581
- [sighs]
1116
01:01:51,582 --> 01:01:54,376
Well, l don't know.
1117
01:01:54,377 --> 01:01:56,336
l just felt like
a total failure,
1118
01:01:56,337 --> 01:01:58,630
total failure as a father.
1119
01:01:58,631 --> 01:02:00,382
- And you could feel his hand,
can't you?
1120
01:02:00,383 --> 01:02:02,008
- Yes.
1121
01:02:02,009 --> 01:02:04,803
Yeah, we were handcuffed to
this hand and his right hand,
1122
01:02:04,804 --> 01:02:09,015
and we were sitting there,
and-and I was just-
1123
01:02:09,016 --> 01:02:10,642
it was just
total failure.
1124
01:02:10,643 --> 01:02:12,602
That's what l felt like.
1125
01:02:12,603 --> 01:02:15,355
l felt like crap, you know,
1126
01:02:15,356 --> 01:02:17,023
and l used a different word
to the jury,
1127
01:02:17,024 --> 01:02:18,942
and-and-and that's-
1128
01:02:18,943 --> 01:02:20,861
and that's what l meant.
1129
01:02:20,862 --> 01:02:23,196
You know, he had trash for a-
for a father,
1130
01:02:23,197 --> 01:02:26,324
and-and then here l was
sitting with my baby son
1131
01:02:26,325 --> 01:02:30,495
on a prison bus,
and, l mean, l don't think it-
1132
01:02:30,496 --> 01:02:34,040
I don't think it gets much
lower than that, you know?
1133
01:02:34,041 --> 01:02:37,002
ltjust don't.
1134
01:02:37,003 --> 01:02:39,838
Knowing me or him,
neither one'll ever, you know,
1135
01:02:39,839 --> 01:02:43,633
get out again.
1136
01:02:43,634 --> 01:02:47,387
l just got a three-year set
off again
1137
01:02:47,388 --> 01:02:49,723
about a week ago, so...
1138
01:02:49,724 --> 01:02:53,894
We'll never-me or him
will never get out again.
1139
01:02:53,895 --> 01:02:55,562
- And will he ever
get out again?
1140
01:02:55,563 --> 01:02:57,397
- l don't think so.
1141
01:02:57,398 --> 01:02:59,399
He comes up for parole
the first time in-
1142
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,736
in 1942 for the first time.
1143
01:03:02,737 --> 01:03:05,238
- 40 years
after his conviction.
1144
01:03:05,239 --> 01:03:07,240
- Yes, sir, 1941.
I'm sorry.
1145
01:03:07,241 --> 01:03:09,242
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
1146
01:03:09,243 --> 01:03:12,662
- Yeah, 2041.
You're a century back.
1147
01:03:12,663 --> 01:03:14,247
- Yes.
- Behind.
1148
01:03:14,248 --> 01:03:17,209
- 19-yeah, 2041.
I'm sorry.
1149
01:03:17,210 --> 01:03:19,503
- Well, it doesn't matter.
lt's-time must be-
1150
01:03:19,504 --> 01:03:20,921
- A long time.
1151
01:03:20,922 --> 01:03:23,715
- Time is probably different
for you in here.
1152
01:03:23,716 --> 01:03:25,842
- Yes, sir.
1153
01:04:21,607 --> 01:04:22,983
- This is actually
the vehicle
1154
01:04:22,984 --> 01:04:25,443
that was in Sandra Stotler's
garage.
1155
01:04:25,444 --> 01:04:26,820
This was the vehicle
1156
01:04:26,821 --> 01:04:32,158
that Michael Perry and
Jason Burkett was-was after.
1157
01:04:32,159 --> 01:04:34,244
Three people died
for this car,
1158
01:04:34,245 --> 01:04:35,954
a car that was
in their possession
1159
01:04:35,955 --> 01:04:39,457
for less than
72 hours, l believe.
1160
01:04:41,502 --> 01:04:43,003
Within a couple of years,
1161
01:04:43,004 --> 01:04:44,880
l mean, this vehicle
was just trashed,
1162
01:04:44,881 --> 01:04:46,256
the inside of it,
1163
01:04:46,257 --> 01:04:48,341
because there was actually
a tree that had rooted
1164
01:04:48,342 --> 01:04:50,051
and had come up through
the center of it,
1165
01:04:50,052 --> 01:04:51,428
and it tore the floorboard up,
1166
01:04:51,429 --> 01:04:56,016
and whenever we actually had
to move it over to this lot,
1167
01:04:56,017 --> 01:04:58,351
it was a little bit difficult
because of that.
1168
01:04:58,352 --> 01:05:00,103
- A tree grew inside of it.
1169
01:05:00,104 --> 01:05:02,647
- A tree grew up
from the bottom up into-
1170
01:05:02,648 --> 01:05:03,982
up into the car.
1171
01:05:09,155 --> 01:05:11,990
- Why did they die?
1172
01:05:11,991 --> 01:05:15,368
- l ask myself that question
every day.
1173
01:05:15,369 --> 01:05:19,664
l mean, for a vehicle?
1174
01:05:19,665 --> 01:05:22,667
You know, l-l don't know.
1175
01:05:22,668 --> 01:05:24,044
l don't know.
1176
01:05:24,045 --> 01:05:26,254
People die every day over
giving people a dirty look
1177
01:05:26,255 --> 01:05:28,673
or, you know, $2.
1178
01:05:28,674 --> 01:05:31,384
People rob each other,
and I don't know.
1179
01:05:31,385 --> 01:05:32,844
l don't know why they died,
1180
01:05:32,845 --> 01:05:35,639
the greed of these two boys.
1181
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,057
l don't know.
1182
01:05:37,058 --> 01:05:38,725
l don't-
l don't have an answer.
1183
01:05:38,726 --> 01:05:42,812
- Can you speak about
the family of victims?
1184
01:05:44,273 --> 01:05:47,817
Nobody seems
to address that side.
1185
01:05:49,403 --> 01:05:50,820
- l-l don't-
1186
01:05:50,821 --> 01:05:52,989
- How do you live
with all this?
1187
01:05:52,990 --> 01:05:55,075
- [sighs]
l didn't for a while.
1188
01:05:55,076 --> 01:05:56,493
l'm starting to live again,
1189
01:05:56,494 --> 01:06:01,539
but basically
l just shut down.
1190
01:06:01,540 --> 01:06:06,962
Montgomery County has
a victims assistance program,
1191
01:06:06,963 --> 01:06:10,423
but when you-when your whole
family's ripped from you,
1192
01:06:10,424 --> 01:06:13,176
you-you know, you're kind of
like, what's the point?
1193
01:06:13,177 --> 01:06:14,761
What's the point
of living anymore?
1194
01:06:14,762 --> 01:06:16,471
l don't have a family
to share it with.
1195
01:06:16,472 --> 01:06:18,223
And l know l have to live
for my children,
1196
01:06:18,224 --> 01:06:19,599
to raise my children.
1197
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:21,434
l don't want them to have
a miserable life
1198
01:06:21,435 --> 01:06:25,146
or have a depressed mother
all the time.
1199
01:06:25,147 --> 01:06:29,317
But for about four years,
I didn't go anywhere.
1200
01:06:29,318 --> 01:06:32,404
l stayed in the house,
1201
01:06:32,405 --> 01:06:33,822
took the phone
out of the home.
1202
01:06:33,823 --> 01:06:35,198
l don't like to talk
to people.
1203
01:06:35,199 --> 01:06:37,909
I figure, if I don't
get close to anybody,
1204
01:06:37,910 --> 01:06:39,703
l don't-you know,
l won't get hurt again.
1205
01:06:39,704 --> 01:06:41,371
l don't know.
1206
01:06:41,372 --> 01:06:44,124
I just-
l just shut down, really.
1207
01:06:44,125 --> 01:06:46,626
My grandmother shut down.
1208
01:06:46,627 --> 01:06:52,173
our-our lives are-
are empty, very empty.
1209
01:06:52,174 --> 01:06:53,800
Very empty.
1210
01:06:58,889 --> 01:07:00,306
That's Adam.
1211
01:07:00,307 --> 01:07:02,809
That was his six-
he was 16 there.
1212
01:07:02,810 --> 01:07:05,270
That was his last
school picture.
1213
01:07:18,659 --> 01:07:21,745
My brother, my brother
was my best friend.
1214
01:07:21,746 --> 01:07:26,332
He was-
he was only 16.
1215
01:07:26,333 --> 01:07:28,835
lt is true that he is not
my real brother.
1216
01:07:28,836 --> 01:07:31,713
My sister was-
got pregnant when she was 16,
1217
01:07:31,714 --> 01:07:33,923
and my parents adopted him,
1218
01:07:33,924 --> 01:07:36,968
and they were actually
out of town the day he was born,
1219
01:07:36,969 --> 01:07:39,846
so l was the first one
to hold him,
1220
01:07:39,847 --> 01:07:42,932
and l just-l had this feeling
his whole life
1221
01:07:42,933 --> 01:07:44,642
that something
was gonna happen to him,
1222
01:07:44,643 --> 01:07:46,895
and l remember calling my mother
and saying, you know,
1223
01:07:46,896 --> 01:07:48,396
"What's Adam doing?
Where's Adam?
1224
01:07:48,397 --> 01:07:50,482
You need to make sure-
y'all just moved up to ohio.
1225
01:07:50,483 --> 01:07:52,317
You need to make sure
you're watching him."
1226
01:07:52,318 --> 01:07:54,319
And my mom was like,
"l've raised five children.
1227
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:55,695
l can take care of him."
1228
01:07:55,696 --> 01:07:58,114
And when he hit 16,
l knew he was-he was good.
1229
01:07:58,115 --> 01:07:59,491
He was safe.
He was a man.
1230
01:07:59,492 --> 01:08:01,409
He'd be able to
take care of himself now.
1231
01:08:02,495 --> 01:08:03,953
He was such a great kid.
1232
01:08:03,954 --> 01:08:06,998
He was in love for
the first time in his life.
1233
01:08:15,716 --> 01:08:22,889
And, um, one-one thing
that sticks out for me,
1234
01:08:22,890 --> 01:08:25,558
my mom always protected me.
1235
01:08:25,559 --> 01:08:29,062
one thing that l remember,
1236
01:08:29,063 --> 01:08:31,564
l was supposed to get married.
1237
01:08:31,565 --> 01:08:34,734
Well, l did get married
September 16, 1995,
1238
01:08:34,735 --> 01:08:37,737
but my dad, Mel,
he was a preacher,
1239
01:08:37,738 --> 01:08:40,532
and he was supposed
to marry me and Kenneth.
1240
01:08:40,533 --> 01:08:42,700
He died six months
before the wedding.
1241
01:08:42,701 --> 01:08:47,622
He was hit by a train,
him and my older brother
1242
01:08:47,623 --> 01:08:49,290
and the family dog.
1243
01:08:49,291 --> 01:08:54,045
And so we got-l refused
to get married in a church,
1244
01:08:54,046 --> 01:08:56,381
so we got married on the boat
in Lake Conroe.
1245
01:08:56,382 --> 01:08:58,299
Right as I was
walking out the-
1246
01:08:58,300 --> 01:09:00,718
walking out the door
to go down the aisle,
1247
01:09:00,719 --> 01:09:05,056
my mother pinned my dad's
wedding ring inside my dress
1248
01:09:05,057 --> 01:09:06,432
right over my heart,
1249
01:09:06,433 --> 01:09:09,352
and she said, "l didn't want
your dad to miss this."
1250
01:09:09,353 --> 01:09:11,354
And, you know, thatjust-
1251
01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:14,774
- You loved her.
1252
01:09:14,775 --> 01:09:17,777
- Yes, and l know she was
in so much pain that day,
1253
01:09:17,778 --> 01:09:22,031
but she hid it
because l was so happy.
1254
01:09:22,032 --> 01:09:24,951
She hid her pain for me,
1255
01:09:24,952 --> 01:09:28,329
and, you know, she-she just
made it through the day.
1256
01:09:30,291 --> 01:09:33,293
l just miss 'em a lot.
1257
01:09:33,294 --> 01:09:37,672
our family's just so incomplete,
so incomplete.
1258
01:09:41,302 --> 01:09:43,636
You know, sometimes my kids
will ask me things,
1259
01:09:43,637 --> 01:09:45,096
and l'll go,
"l don't know.
1260
01:09:45,097 --> 01:09:46,598
l wonder what my mo-"
1261
01:09:46,599 --> 01:09:49,142
You know, there's things
at all times of day and night
1262
01:09:49,143 --> 01:09:51,060
l want to call and ask her.
1263
01:09:51,061 --> 01:09:55,440
lt took me forever to realize
she was really gone
1264
01:09:55,441 --> 01:09:57,984
'cause l would want to pick up
the phone and call her.
1265
01:09:57,985 --> 01:10:01,654
- Is this why you
got rid of the phone?
1266
01:10:01,655 --> 01:10:08,995
- Yes, l-l did not want
another phone call
1267
01:10:08,996 --> 01:10:12,832
telling me somebody else
in my family had died.
1268
01:10:14,251 --> 01:10:16,044
I couldn't handle
those phone calls anymore.
1269
01:10:18,631 --> 01:10:20,381
l couldn't handle 'em anymore,
1270
01:10:20,382 --> 01:10:24,135
so l just cut myself off
from the world.
1271
01:10:26,263 --> 01:10:28,473
I can't-I can't
have a phone on.
1272
01:10:28,474 --> 01:10:30,433
l just don't like to hear
the phone ring anymore
1273
01:10:30,434 --> 01:10:33,144
'cause all it ever brought me
was bad news.
1274
01:10:33,145 --> 01:10:34,646
- The worst.
- The worst.
1275
01:10:34,647 --> 01:10:37,190
- Notjust bad, yeah.
1276
01:10:37,191 --> 01:10:39,192
You had to-to face it.
1277
01:10:39,193 --> 01:10:41,444
- Yeah.
1278
01:10:41,445 --> 01:10:43,196
Well, you know,
it's just, l mean,
1279
01:10:43,197 --> 01:10:48,701
not only did l lose my mother
and my father and my brother
1280
01:10:48,702 --> 01:10:50,536
to tragic circumstances.
1281
01:10:50,537 --> 01:10:52,205
l mean, my grandfather
had a stroke.
1282
01:10:52,206 --> 01:10:53,581
My uncle hung himself.
1283
01:10:53,582 --> 01:10:56,376
My other uncle
had a heroin overdose.
1284
01:10:56,377 --> 01:10:59,754
My stepbrother shot himself
'cause he had pancreatic cancer.
1285
01:10:59,755 --> 01:11:02,048
My real father died
in his sleep.
1286
01:11:02,049 --> 01:11:04,509
All this was in six years,
a six-year period.
1287
01:11:04,510 --> 01:11:07,637
l lost everyone in my family,
everybody.
1288
01:11:53,559 --> 01:11:55,977
- Mr. Burkett,
if you close the eyes
1289
01:11:55,978 --> 01:11:58,938
and you think about
a different life
1290
01:11:58,939 --> 01:12:02,400
and it could start all over,
1291
01:12:02,401 --> 01:12:05,862
how would you raise
the children?
1292
01:12:05,863 --> 01:12:07,780
- Well...
1293
01:12:10,659 --> 01:12:14,203
lt's hard to answer something
that you've never done,
1294
01:12:14,204 --> 01:12:16,289
and, you know, embarrassing-
1295
01:12:16,290 --> 01:12:18,166
it's embarrassing to say that,
1296
01:12:18,167 --> 01:12:20,418
but-but l know when-
I would like-
1297
01:12:20,419 --> 01:12:25,590
l would like to them have...
1298
01:12:25,591 --> 01:12:28,134
I had a scholarship
to the University of Texas
1299
01:12:28,135 --> 01:12:31,095
in 1973,
in football,
1300
01:12:31,096 --> 01:12:32,930
and I quit school
in my senior year,
1301
01:12:32,931 --> 01:12:36,768
quit football and quit school
and lost that,
1302
01:12:36,769 --> 01:12:39,854
and l wish l could go back
to right there.
1303
01:12:39,855 --> 01:12:41,522
- Yes, go back to right there.
1304
01:12:41,523 --> 01:12:43,149
Now you have the children.
1305
01:12:43,150 --> 01:12:47,236
- Then l have the children,
and-and l would had-
1306
01:12:47,237 --> 01:12:50,281
I would have done
everything in my power
1307
01:12:50,282 --> 01:12:54,660
to-to help them finish school
like l didn't.
1308
01:12:54,661 --> 01:12:56,954
You always tell them,
"Don't be like me."
1309
01:12:56,955 --> 01:12:58,498
Well, l wished-
1310
01:12:58,499 --> 01:13:01,000
I wished I would've been
something they could've been,
1311
01:13:01,001 --> 01:13:03,211
and l wish they could've
finished school.
1312
01:13:03,212 --> 01:13:05,505
l wish we could've played
baseball like I did
1313
01:13:05,506 --> 01:13:08,174
when l was little,
in Little League.
1314
01:13:08,175 --> 01:13:10,009
l wish that we could've
played baseball.
1315
01:13:10,010 --> 01:13:12,637
Two of them did
for, like, one time.
1316
01:13:12,638 --> 01:13:15,056
l wish we could've
played baseball,
1317
01:13:15,057 --> 01:13:17,558
and l wished l could've went
to their football games.
1318
01:13:19,603 --> 01:13:23,106
And l raised a steer in-
in school for FFA.
1319
01:13:23,107 --> 01:13:24,649
l wish they could've did that.
1320
01:13:24,650 --> 01:13:26,025
We lived in the country.
1321
01:13:26,026 --> 01:13:28,986
That's what I wish
we could go back, all of us,
1322
01:13:28,987 --> 01:13:32,615
and-and-and go to school,
school events.
1323
01:13:32,616 --> 01:13:33,991
l got to watch one of my sons
1324
01:13:33,992 --> 01:13:36,077
play the horn
one time in school,
1325
01:13:36,078 --> 01:13:38,663
and-and that's the stuff
that l remember.
1326
01:13:38,664 --> 01:13:40,331
That's the good stuff,
1327
01:13:40,332 --> 01:13:42,750
and this all
wouldn't have happened.
1328
01:14:14,908 --> 01:14:16,409
- l want to say this
on the record.
1329
01:14:16,410 --> 01:14:18,411
l'm not saying that my husband
was a Boy Scout.
1330
01:14:18,412 --> 01:14:21,038
l'm not saying that
Jason Burkett did absolutely-
1331
01:14:21,039 --> 01:14:23,249
had no knowledge
and was, like, selling cookies
1332
01:14:23,250 --> 01:14:27,253
or raising money for camp
when that happened.
1333
01:14:27,254 --> 01:14:33,759
I'm saying that Jason did not
kill one, two, or three people.
1334
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:38,264
Sandra, Jeremy, and Adam
were not killed by Jason.
1335
01:14:38,265 --> 01:14:42,643
- And you asked your husband-
1336
01:14:42,644 --> 01:14:45,146
you asked Jason point-blank,
1337
01:14:45,147 --> 01:14:46,981
"Can you tell me what-
what happened?"
1338
01:14:46,982 --> 01:14:49,609
because you wanted
to make sure.
1339
01:14:49,610 --> 01:14:51,611
What did you ask him?
1340
01:14:51,612 --> 01:14:53,613
- l've asked Jason
multiple times
1341
01:14:53,614 --> 01:14:55,823
to tell me everything
that I need to know.
1342
01:14:55,824 --> 01:14:57,200
l said, "Jason-"
1343
01:14:57,201 --> 01:14:58,910
Jason doesn't have
a whole lot of money,
1344
01:14:58,911 --> 01:15:00,453
so we do most of his stuff
pro se,
1345
01:15:00,454 --> 01:15:03,289
which is where we file it
ourselves,
1346
01:15:03,290 --> 01:15:07,418
and me and his father have
pretty much done his appeal,
1347
01:15:07,419 --> 01:15:09,462
and l always ask him,
1348
01:15:09,463 --> 01:15:11,881
"l need to know
everything you can tell me
1349
01:15:11,882 --> 01:15:13,549
to help you get home,"
1350
01:15:13,550 --> 01:15:15,801
and that's basically
how we start our conversations,
1351
01:15:15,802 --> 01:15:20,389
and Jason will recall things,
and, you know, more and more,
1352
01:15:20,390 --> 01:15:22,475
it's, like, been a snowball
that l've picked up
1353
01:15:22,476 --> 01:15:24,101
exactly what l think happened.
1354
01:15:24,102 --> 01:15:25,478
- Yeah.
1355
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:27,522
And you are told
he was innocent.
1356
01:15:27,523 --> 01:15:29,023
- Yes.
1357
01:15:29,024 --> 01:15:30,775
- And you do believe him.
1358
01:15:30,776 --> 01:15:33,194
- l do believe him.
1359
01:15:33,195 --> 01:15:37,156
l-like l said, l believe
that Jason had involvement.
1360
01:15:37,157 --> 01:15:39,867
l don't believe
he killed three people.
1361
01:15:41,245 --> 01:15:42,828
l wrote Jason
for maybe two years
1362
01:15:42,829 --> 01:15:44,455
before l went to meet him,
1363
01:15:44,456 --> 01:15:47,166
because really l could do most
of the stuff through the mail,
1364
01:15:47,167 --> 01:15:49,168
and one day
l was talking to his mother,
1365
01:15:49,169 --> 01:15:51,796
and she said something
to the effect of,
1366
01:15:51,797 --> 01:15:53,923
"You'll never guess what Jason
said to me today,"
1367
01:15:53,924 --> 01:15:55,341
and l said, "What?"
1368
01:15:55,342 --> 01:15:59,470
And she said, "He told me
that he was in love with you."
1369
01:15:59,471 --> 01:16:03,140
And l said, "That's crazy."
1370
01:16:03,141 --> 01:16:05,935
And l remember, to give you,
like, the pre-story,
1371
01:16:05,936 --> 01:16:07,770
l was with my best friend,
and when I hung up,
1372
01:16:07,771 --> 01:16:09,605
l said to my best friend-
her name's Kat-
1373
01:16:09,606 --> 01:16:13,442
l was like, "Kat, Jason
Burkett's in love with me."
1374
01:16:13,443 --> 01:16:15,194
She goes,
"That's probably pretty good
1375
01:16:15,195 --> 01:16:16,862
'cause you're
in love with him too."
1376
01:16:16,863 --> 01:16:18,823
And l said,
"What are you talking about?
1377
01:16:18,824 --> 01:16:20,283
Don't be an idiot,"
you know?
1378
01:16:20,284 --> 01:16:22,702
And she said,
"Dude, when is the last time
1379
01:16:22,703 --> 01:16:24,161
"you've been on a date?
1380
01:16:24,162 --> 01:16:26,539
"When was the last time you
haven't spent a Saturday night
1381
01:16:26,540 --> 01:16:28,874
with Jason Burkett's
court paperwork?"
1382
01:16:28,875 --> 01:16:31,002
I was like,
"Hey, that's not nice."
1383
01:16:31,003 --> 01:16:32,420
But l ended up driving-
1384
01:16:32,421 --> 01:16:33,838
l lived in Nebraska
at the time.
1385
01:16:33,839 --> 01:16:36,799
l ended up driving from omaha
to Abilene
1386
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:39,552
because l wanted him
to tell me himself,
1387
01:16:39,553 --> 01:16:41,095
and he was at
the Robertson Unit.
1388
01:16:41,096 --> 01:16:42,888
- You were two days
and two nights driving?
1389
01:16:42,889 --> 01:16:44,348
- Yes.
1390
01:16:44,349 --> 01:16:47,852
l drove-it-
it seemed, like, endless too.
1391
01:16:47,853 --> 01:16:49,228
I drove,
and l got there,
1392
01:16:49,229 --> 01:16:50,646
and l remember,
I just asked him.
1393
01:16:50,647 --> 01:16:52,231
Like, that was the first thing
I said.
1394
01:16:52,232 --> 01:16:54,567
I was like, "Hi, we've never
seen each other in our lives,
1395
01:16:54,568 --> 01:16:55,943
"but hi.
1396
01:16:55,944 --> 01:16:57,820
Your mom told me
that you're in love with me."
1397
01:16:57,821 --> 01:16:59,196
But l didn't say it.
1398
01:16:59,197 --> 01:17:00,573
l wanted to be coy,
so I said,
1399
01:17:00,574 --> 01:17:02,742
"Your mom told me you told her
something in a visit."
1400
01:17:02,743 --> 01:17:04,368
l said, "What-
what did you tell her?"
1401
01:17:04,369 --> 01:17:06,245
And he said,
"l need stamps?"
1402
01:17:06,246 --> 01:17:08,080
And l was like,
"l wouldn't be in Abilene
1403
01:17:08,081 --> 01:17:09,749
"because you need
stamps, right?
1404
01:17:09,750 --> 01:17:11,584
What are you-
don't play games with me."
1405
01:17:11,585 --> 01:17:13,419
And he goes,
"oh, that part where l said
1406
01:17:13,420 --> 01:17:15,421
l was in love with you?"
1407
01:17:15,422 --> 01:17:17,590
And then l dropped the phone
because l was nervous,
1408
01:17:17,591 --> 01:17:18,966
and l didn't know
what to say,
1409
01:17:18,967 --> 01:17:20,885
and I kind of fumbled
through that whole visit
1410
01:17:20,886 --> 01:17:23,054
because l didn't immediately go,
"I love you too."
1411
01:17:23,055 --> 01:17:25,056
lt wasn't, you know,
like a movie.
1412
01:17:25,057 --> 01:17:26,474
l was very nervous.
1413
01:17:26,475 --> 01:17:29,810
I'm not that girl that
falls in love with an inmate.
1414
01:17:29,811 --> 01:17:32,938
And l was like, okay,
l'm just gonna be cool with it,
1415
01:17:32,939 --> 01:17:36,609
and then when l left,
the day l met Jason,
1416
01:17:36,610 --> 01:17:38,152
there was a rainbow,
and I'm not-
1417
01:17:38,153 --> 01:17:39,654
This is true.
lt's in our letters.
1418
01:17:39,655 --> 01:17:41,530
There was a rainbow
that went from one gate-
1419
01:17:41,531 --> 01:17:44,950
side of the gate
to the other side of the gate,
1420
01:17:44,951 --> 01:17:48,412
and l thought that was the most
miraculous sign that this is-
1421
01:17:48,413 --> 01:17:50,289
this is the boy
that l'm supposed to be with
1422
01:17:50,290 --> 01:17:51,874
and this is-
he is innocent,
1423
01:17:51,875 --> 01:17:55,795
because how many times
do you see a whole rainbow?
1424
01:17:55,796 --> 01:17:59,799
And we saw a whole rainbow,
and my friend was with me.
1425
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,051
He saw the rainbow too.
l have a witness.
1426
01:18:02,052 --> 01:18:03,427
And when Jason-
1427
01:18:03,428 --> 01:18:05,846
when l got home,
l had a letter waiting for me,
1428
01:18:05,847 --> 01:18:07,932
and he said,
"Did you see the rainbow?"
1429
01:18:07,933 --> 01:18:10,643
- At the gates of the prison.
1430
01:18:10,644 --> 01:18:12,812
- lt went from one side,
my side on the outside,
1431
01:18:12,813 --> 01:18:15,064
to the inside to him.
1432
01:18:31,623 --> 01:18:33,791
- l believe in me,
you know, l know what-
1433
01:18:33,792 --> 01:18:36,043
l know what happened
back in 2001.
1434
01:18:36,044 --> 01:18:37,545
l know that l wasn't
a part of it,
1435
01:18:37,546 --> 01:18:39,922
and l believe strongly in-
in my faith,
1436
01:18:39,923 --> 01:18:41,465
in my attorneys,
and in the outcome,
1437
01:18:41,466 --> 01:18:43,801
but at the same time, l don't
even recognize these walls.
1438
01:18:43,802 --> 01:18:45,177
l don't pay attention
to this,
1439
01:18:45,178 --> 01:18:47,138
because if you do,
you're gonna lose your mind.
1440
01:18:47,139 --> 01:18:49,598
You're gonna-you're gonna go-
you're gonna lose your mind.
1441
01:18:49,599 --> 01:18:52,017
Recently, another guy just
killed himself the other day,
1442
01:18:52,018 --> 01:18:54,520
and he left a note
saying that,
1443
01:18:54,521 --> 01:18:56,480
"Y'all have to live around
all this craziness,
1444
01:18:56,481 --> 01:18:58,023
and l'm gone,"
1445
01:18:58,024 --> 01:18:59,859
and that's because
he was focusing on it,
1446
01:18:59,860 --> 01:19:01,235
but l don't.
1447
01:19:01,236 --> 01:19:02,611
l don't focus on it.
1448
01:19:02,612 --> 01:19:05,489
You know, l just-
l just distract myself.
1449
01:19:05,490 --> 01:19:06,907
l stay busy.
l work on my case.
1450
01:19:06,908 --> 01:19:08,617
l have a great family,
1451
01:19:08,618 --> 01:19:10,494
a lot of supporters
that help me,
1452
01:19:10,495 --> 01:19:12,413
so l have enough distractions.
1453
01:19:12,414 --> 01:19:14,123
lf l didn't have
enough distractions,
1454
01:19:14,124 --> 01:19:16,917
l might be in
a different position.
1455
01:19:16,918 --> 01:19:20,755
- How does time occur to you now
in your situation?
1456
01:19:20,756 --> 01:19:23,549
- Wow, that's a-
that's a good-
1457
01:19:23,550 --> 01:19:25,676
lt-it really varies,
but, you know,
1458
01:19:25,677 --> 01:19:27,178
because, l'll-
like, I'll forget.
1459
01:19:27,179 --> 01:19:28,554
l'll literally forget,
1460
01:19:28,555 --> 01:19:29,972
and then l'll look at
my calendar
1461
01:19:29,973 --> 01:19:31,599
or l'll hear someone
say something,
1462
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:32,975
and l'm like, "Man."
1463
01:19:32,976 --> 01:19:35,060
And l'll sit back,
and l'll just stare at the wall,
1464
01:19:35,061 --> 01:19:36,645
and I'll be like,
"Man, eight days,
1465
01:19:36,646 --> 01:19:39,774
seven days, six days,"
or whatever, and it's like-
1466
01:19:39,775 --> 01:19:41,942
it's just-l must not be
comprehending the fact
1467
01:19:41,943 --> 01:19:43,736
that it's that close,
because, you know,
1468
01:19:43,737 --> 01:19:45,571
it's hard for me to say,
you know what-
1469
01:19:45,572 --> 01:19:47,740
like, l talk to people,
"You know, in eight days,
1470
01:19:47,741 --> 01:19:49,408
these people
want to murder me,"
1471
01:19:49,409 --> 01:19:52,077
and it's just something that,
it's hard for me to-
1472
01:19:52,078 --> 01:19:53,496
hard for me to believe
1473
01:19:53,497 --> 01:19:56,248
that the state of Texas wants
to murder me in eight days.
1474
01:19:58,919 --> 01:20:00,669
- And worst-case scenario,
1475
01:20:00,670 --> 01:20:04,632
you know exactly what is
going to happen on July 1st?
1476
01:20:04,633 --> 01:20:07,176
- Yeah, the execution.
Mm-hmm.
1477
01:20:07,177 --> 01:20:09,303
- You will be transported
to Huntsville?
1478
01:20:09,304 --> 01:20:11,889
- Right, the Walls Unit.
- That's a death house?
1479
01:20:11,890 --> 01:20:13,265
- Yes, sir.
1480
01:20:13,266 --> 01:20:16,769
- And you will be checked
by a medical examiner?
1481
01:20:16,770 --> 01:20:19,730
- l don't-no, no medical people
can be involved.
1482
01:20:19,731 --> 01:20:21,315
- I think they-
they have to check you
1483
01:20:21,316 --> 01:20:23,150
that you are fit
to be executed.
1484
01:20:23,151 --> 01:20:25,653
- l've never heard that,
but it might be.
1485
01:20:25,654 --> 01:20:27,363
- l think it's
one of these absurdities.
1486
01:20:27,364 --> 01:20:28,948
lf you are unconscious,
for example,
1487
01:20:28,949 --> 01:20:30,324
you cannot be executed.
1488
01:20:30,325 --> 01:20:31,700
- oh, yeah?
1489
01:20:31,701 --> 01:20:33,410
- or if you are stark mad
or something...
1490
01:20:33,411 --> 01:20:35,204
- Yeah, yeah.
- They would not execute you.
1491
01:20:35,205 --> 01:20:36,580
- Yeah, that is true.
1492
01:20:36,581 --> 01:20:38,666
- or if you are bleeding
from a gunshot wound,
1493
01:20:38,667 --> 01:20:42,670
they would not put you
onto the gurney.
1494
01:20:42,671 --> 01:20:44,672
- Right.
1495
01:20:44,673 --> 01:20:46,674
They got to treat me first
and then kill me, huh?
1496
01:20:46,675 --> 01:20:49,176
- Probably, yes.
- [laughs]
1497
01:20:49,177 --> 01:20:52,680
That's-that's kind of crazy
to think about, right?
1498
01:20:56,768 --> 01:20:58,769
Yeah, l just-l just can't
allow myself to think.
1499
01:20:58,770 --> 01:21:00,813
l can't even picture myself
laying on a gurney,
1500
01:21:00,814 --> 01:21:04,233
but if it happens,
l'll have to deal with it, huh?
1501
01:21:04,234 --> 01:21:05,985
You know, l'll have to
deal with it,
1502
01:21:05,986 --> 01:21:09,196
and l'll be able to watch over
my mom from heaven
1503
01:21:09,197 --> 01:21:11,323
with a clear conscience
and be at peace.
1504
01:21:11,324 --> 01:21:13,158
You know, like l said,
for a long time,
1505
01:21:13,159 --> 01:21:14,577
my life has been unhappy,
1506
01:21:14,578 --> 01:21:18,330
so finally l can find me
some peace, huh?
1507
01:21:18,540 --> 01:21:20,082
- And you are
at peace with yourself.
1508
01:21:20,083 --> 01:21:21,458
- Now.
1509
01:21:21,459 --> 01:21:22,877
- Mm-hmm.
Took a long time.
1510
01:21:22,878 --> 01:21:24,712
- Yes, absolutely did.
1511
01:21:24,713 --> 01:21:27,423
Took a long time
to realize what a man was.
1512
01:21:27,424 --> 01:21:29,091
l was out there
acting like a child.
1513
01:21:29,092 --> 01:21:31,385
I acted like a child
when l got in here at first,
1514
01:21:31,386 --> 01:21:35,723
but l'm confident in-
in who I am now.
1515
01:21:39,519 --> 01:21:42,646
- Michael Perry,
l wish you all the best.
1516
01:21:42,647 --> 01:21:45,107
- Yes, thank you.
1517
01:21:45,108 --> 01:21:46,859
l don't know
what's gonna happen, huh?
1518
01:21:46,860 --> 01:21:49,570
We're gonna see.
We're gonna find out.
1519
01:21:49,571 --> 01:21:51,405
l'll find out on Monday.
1520
01:22:12,677 --> 01:22:15,095
- They knew
what l was telling them
1521
01:22:15,096 --> 01:22:17,097
was gonna be the truth.
1522
01:22:17,098 --> 01:22:20,809
l mean, l'm not gonna
tell you anything that-
1523
01:22:20,810 --> 01:22:23,812
l'm gonna tell you everything
that's gonna happen back here.
1524
01:22:23,813 --> 01:22:26,690
At 4:00, a guy's
gonna come in here,
1525
01:22:26,691 --> 01:22:29,443
and they're gonna
fingerprint you.
1526
01:22:29,444 --> 01:22:31,570
Shortly after that,
1527
01:22:31,571 --> 01:22:34,573
we're gonna allow you
to take a shower,
1528
01:22:34,574 --> 01:22:37,242
and then we're gonna put you
in free world clothes,
1529
01:22:37,243 --> 01:22:39,745
let you-let you dress
in free world clothes.
1530
01:22:39,746 --> 01:22:43,290
Free world clothes would be
clothes you and l would wear.
1531
01:22:43,291 --> 01:22:48,462
5:00, 6:00, whatever your-your
request for the last meal,
1532
01:22:48,463 --> 01:22:50,172
they'll bring it in,
1533
01:22:50,173 --> 01:22:54,134
and you'll sit there
and eat your last meal.
1534
01:22:54,135 --> 01:22:57,930
During that time, if you need
anything else, just ask.
1535
01:22:57,931 --> 01:23:01,767
You know, you need
some more juice, punch,
1536
01:23:01,768 --> 01:23:05,604
or whatever else
we got back here, just ask.
1537
01:23:05,605 --> 01:23:08,148
You know, and they-
you know,
1538
01:23:08,149 --> 01:23:10,734
sometimes we get
strange requests.
1539
01:23:10,735 --> 01:23:13,487
You know, within reason,
l'm gonna get it for you.
1540
01:23:13,488 --> 01:23:15,489
- Give me one
of those requests.
1541
01:23:15,490 --> 01:23:17,658
- oh, one was,
1542
01:23:17,659 --> 01:23:19,827
"Man, l'd sure like to
smoke a doobie right now."
1543
01:23:19,828 --> 01:23:23,956
Well, that's not gonna happen,
you know.
1544
01:23:25,125 --> 01:23:27,084
The guy with the key,
he opens the door,
1545
01:23:27,085 --> 01:23:28,460
swings the door open.
1546
01:23:28,461 --> 01:23:30,587
There's another
correctional officer behind him
1547
01:23:30,588 --> 01:23:32,715
and another one behind me.
1548
01:23:32,716 --> 01:23:35,843
So soon as he does,
he follows me in,
1549
01:23:35,844 --> 01:23:37,636
and then the other
correctional officers
1550
01:23:37,637 --> 01:23:39,179
follow right in behind him.
1551
01:23:39,180 --> 01:23:41,682
So there'll be two in front of-
in front of the inmate,
1552
01:23:41,683 --> 01:23:43,851
and then the other three
right behind him.
1553
01:23:43,852 --> 01:23:45,561
l tell him jump up
on the gurney,
1554
01:23:45,562 --> 01:23:46,979
which then l automatic-
1555
01:23:46,980 --> 01:23:50,190
- lt's only a few steps
from the cell.
1556
01:23:50,191 --> 01:23:55,946
- l would say no more than
ten steps, if that much.
1557
01:23:58,491 --> 01:24:00,367
I would immediately
go around to the gurney
1558
01:24:00,368 --> 01:24:03,370
'cause l always took care
of the left leg.
1559
01:24:03,371 --> 01:24:06,582
So soon as he laid down,
I took care of the left leg.
1560
01:24:06,583 --> 01:24:09,001
The other person
who was in front with me
1561
01:24:09,002 --> 01:24:10,627
would take care of the right.
1562
01:24:10,628 --> 01:24:13,380
The-the three
that fell in behind,
1563
01:24:13,381 --> 01:24:16,425
one would take care
of the-the right arm.
1564
01:24:16,426 --> 01:24:19,261
The other one would take care
of the left arm,
1565
01:24:19,262 --> 01:24:23,223
and the other one would be there
in case the inmate,
1566
01:24:23,224 --> 01:24:25,225
once he lays down,
1567
01:24:25,226 --> 01:24:27,853
if he had a response
to try to get back up,
1568
01:24:27,854 --> 01:24:31,440
his job was to hold-
to hold his shoulders down.
1569
01:24:31,441 --> 01:24:32,858
You know, you're not-
1570
01:24:32,859 --> 01:24:35,110
once you're up there,
you're up there, you know.
1571
01:24:36,613 --> 01:24:37,988
Within that time,
1572
01:24:37,989 --> 01:24:40,074
us four people
would have him done.
1573
01:24:40,075 --> 01:24:41,992
Probably within about
15 seconds,
1574
01:24:41,993 --> 01:24:44,953
he'd be strapped down
that quick,
1575
01:24:44,954 --> 01:24:47,081
'cause we all knew
exactly where our straps were
1576
01:24:47,082 --> 01:24:48,832
and what we were
supposed to do.
1577
01:24:48,833 --> 01:24:53,003
The time.
Do-do a process.
1578
01:24:53,004 --> 01:24:54,671
We trained on it.
1579
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:58,926
It's the last time
you're gonna see-
1580
01:24:58,927 --> 01:25:01,720
l'm gonna see him
with his eyes open,
1581
01:25:01,721 --> 01:25:03,347
because after
the execution's done
1582
01:25:03,348 --> 01:25:05,474
and the process went
1583
01:25:05,475 --> 01:25:07,810
and then-then they call
the doctor in
1584
01:25:07,811 --> 01:25:11,480
to pronounce him dead,
1585
01:25:11,481 --> 01:25:13,107
then everybody leaves.
1586
01:25:13,108 --> 01:25:16,610
My job begins again 'cause
I have to go back in there,
1587
01:25:16,611 --> 01:25:19,571
and that's-that's all-
1588
01:25:19,572 --> 01:25:21,740
also kind of difficult
1589
01:25:21,741 --> 01:25:27,037
because here you sit with this
individual eight or ten hours,
1590
01:25:27,038 --> 01:25:29,581
all day long,
1591
01:25:29,582 --> 01:25:32,543
and now the last thing
you're doing
1592
01:25:32,544 --> 01:25:35,629
is removing those straps.
1593
01:25:35,630 --> 01:25:37,172
The straps have to be removed
1594
01:25:37,173 --> 01:25:40,843
and put him on another gurney
for the funeral home.
1595
01:25:40,844 --> 01:25:42,845
And then, you thought-
1596
01:25:42,846 --> 01:25:45,055
you didn't think about
none of this
1597
01:25:45,056 --> 01:25:48,058
while you're doing this,
the procedure.
1598
01:25:48,059 --> 01:25:51,854
You know, none of this, you're-
you don't keep-
1599
01:25:51,855 --> 01:25:54,022
you don't put those emotions
out there.
1600
01:25:54,023 --> 01:25:59,736
Do you-you do the job
and go home.
1601
01:25:59,737 --> 01:26:04,366
- You did how many executions,
roughly?
1602
01:26:04,367 --> 01:26:08,120
- lt was over 125, 120.
1603
01:26:08,121 --> 01:26:09,830
lt was somewhere over 120.
1604
01:26:09,831 --> 01:26:11,331
lt was a bunch.
1605
01:26:11,332 --> 01:26:13,792
We got to the point to where,
especially after l-
1606
01:26:13,793 --> 01:26:17,171
l think l promoted to captain
in '90.
1607
01:26:17,172 --> 01:26:20,591
We were doing two a week,
1608
01:26:20,592 --> 01:26:23,760
and that was getting tiresome.
1609
01:26:23,761 --> 01:26:26,138
- And what happened to you then?
1610
01:26:26,139 --> 01:26:27,764
- [clears throat]
1611
01:26:27,765 --> 01:26:33,270
l-back when they-
1612
01:26:33,271 --> 01:26:35,564
when they brought in
Karla Faye,
1613
01:26:35,565 --> 01:26:37,816
l stayed back there with her.
1614
01:26:37,817 --> 01:26:42,821
Now, definitely that was
the first female
1615
01:26:42,822 --> 01:26:45,657
that we were fixing
to execute.
1616
01:26:45,658 --> 01:26:49,328
l remember one thing
so vividly,
1617
01:26:49,329 --> 01:26:52,164
that it was an hour before,
1618
01:26:52,165 --> 01:26:53,540
and l was standing there,
1619
01:26:53,541 --> 01:26:55,209
and the chaplain
was standing there,
1620
01:26:55,210 --> 01:26:56,752
and she looked at me,
and she goes,
1621
01:26:56,753 --> 01:27:00,756
"Thank you, Captain Allen,
for everything you've done."
1622
01:27:00,757 --> 01:27:02,591
l said, "You're welcome."
1623
01:27:02,592 --> 01:27:05,385
You know, that's all
l could say, you know.
1624
01:27:05,386 --> 01:27:07,137
What else can-
what else am l gonna say?
1625
01:27:07,138 --> 01:27:12,517
What, "I'm fixin' to strap
you down in another hour"?
1626
01:27:12,518 --> 01:27:14,102
Which we went-
1627
01:27:14,103 --> 01:27:17,189
procedure and everything went
just the way it was supposed to.
1628
01:27:17,190 --> 01:27:19,524
You know,
she was pronounced dead.
1629
01:27:19,525 --> 01:27:21,318
l went back in there,
and l took the gurn-
1630
01:27:21,319 --> 01:27:22,778
took the straps off,
1631
01:27:22,779 --> 01:27:24,738
put her, you know,
on the gurney and that stuff.
1632
01:27:24,739 --> 01:27:27,491
We locked everything up,
went about our business,
1633
01:27:27,492 --> 01:27:30,410
and-and everything
was fine.
1634
01:27:30,411 --> 01:27:32,079
l had a little shop
in the back.
1635
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:35,207
lt was 6:00, and the news
come on over the radio,
1636
01:27:35,208 --> 01:27:36,625
and it started again,
1637
01:27:36,626 --> 01:27:42,256
and for some reason,
just out of the blue,
1638
01:27:42,257 --> 01:27:48,095
hearing it, it triggered me
seeing her hurt,
1639
01:27:48,096 --> 01:27:49,471
and l just started shaking.
1640
01:27:49,472 --> 01:27:51,890
l don't know what's wrong,
and then, it was-
1641
01:27:51,891 --> 01:27:53,308
- How badly did you shake?
1642
01:27:53,309 --> 01:27:55,852
- lt was-it was-
it was a shake.
1643
01:27:55,853 --> 01:27:57,229
lt was a shake.
1644
01:27:57,230 --> 01:27:59,856
Like, I couldn't-
why am l shaking?
1645
01:27:59,857 --> 01:28:01,233
And then l could see my-
1646
01:28:01,234 --> 01:28:05,612
l was sweating
and in tears.
1647
01:28:05,613 --> 01:28:09,074
All of a sudden,
man, this-this is hurtin'.
1648
01:28:09,075 --> 01:28:11,785
I remembered her-
this was two days afterwards.
1649
01:28:11,786 --> 01:28:13,912
l remembered her execution.
1650
01:28:13,913 --> 01:28:15,789
Hers wasn't no different
than anybody else,
1651
01:28:15,790 --> 01:28:19,167
but it was hers,
1652
01:28:19,168 --> 01:28:24,881
and then I started actually
visualizing the other inmates
1653
01:28:24,882 --> 01:28:29,636
as-you asked me, "Did you look
in their eyes when they're"-
1654
01:28:29,637 --> 01:28:31,305
l could see 'em.
1655
01:28:31,306 --> 01:28:34,891
l could actually see 'em
in their holding cell again,
1656
01:28:34,892 --> 01:28:37,644
you know,
one right after another,
1657
01:28:37,645 --> 01:28:43,108
and it seemed like
there was just...
1658
01:28:43,109 --> 01:28:44,860
My wife goes,
"What's wrong with you?"
1659
01:28:44,861 --> 01:28:46,320
And l don't know.
1660
01:28:46,321 --> 01:28:48,530
l need to talk to somebody.
1661
01:28:48,531 --> 01:28:51,241
And the first person l could
think of to call was Carroll,
1662
01:28:51,242 --> 01:28:52,993
Chaplain Pickett,
1663
01:28:52,994 --> 01:28:54,411
and he come over
to the house,
1664
01:28:54,412 --> 01:28:59,333
and we sat on that old swing,
and l started coming down,
1665
01:28:59,334 --> 01:29:01,168
and I-he says,
"What's wrong?"
1666
01:29:01,169 --> 01:29:02,836
And l told him,
1667
01:29:02,837 --> 01:29:04,588
and then l looked at Carroll,
and l said,
1668
01:29:04,589 --> 01:29:06,631
"l can't do it no more.
1669
01:29:06,632 --> 01:29:09,509
"That's it.
l'm-l'm done.
1670
01:29:09,510 --> 01:29:14,181
I can't-I can't
go back there anymore."
1671
01:29:14,182 --> 01:29:18,060
- Could it be that you thought
that this was not yourself
1672
01:29:18,061 --> 01:29:23,315
but maybe it was
your real self that moment?
1673
01:29:23,316 --> 01:29:25,192
- That's a good possibility.
1674
01:29:27,195 --> 01:29:28,779
- What's really
deep inside of you...
1675
01:29:28,780 --> 01:29:30,155
- Yes.
1676
01:29:30,156 --> 01:29:32,949
- Came out.
1677
01:29:32,950 --> 01:29:35,285
- That's a good-
that's very-
1678
01:29:35,286 --> 01:29:38,330
I mean, that's-
l mean, from that point on,
1679
01:29:38,331 --> 01:29:42,834
l mean, l've had
a different outlook in life.
1680
01:29:42,835 --> 01:29:45,712
lf executions was the law,
1681
01:29:45,713 --> 01:29:48,924
then I was gonna make sure
that it was done professionally,
1682
01:29:48,925 --> 01:29:51,093
with integrity.
1683
01:29:51,094 --> 01:29:57,557
After Karla-and I was
pro-capital punishment.
1684
01:29:57,558 --> 01:30:00,060
After Karla Faye
and after all this,
1685
01:30:00,061 --> 01:30:02,521
until this day,
1 1 years later...
1686
01:30:04,399 --> 01:30:07,359
No, sir.
1687
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:10,028
l don't-nobody has the right
to take another life.
1688
01:30:10,029 --> 01:30:14,699
l don't care if it's the law.
1689
01:30:14,700 --> 01:30:17,869
And it's so easy
to change the law.
1690
01:30:40,601 --> 01:30:43,061
- l-l don't want to sound, um...
1691
01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:48,233
Like a evil person or-
1692
01:30:48,234 --> 01:30:49,985
but l am so glad
l went to the execution.
1693
01:30:49,986 --> 01:30:51,403
l really am.
1694
01:30:51,404 --> 01:30:54,781
I fought with my-
with myself about going.
1695
01:30:54,782 --> 01:30:58,910
l reserved this-the seat
so l could be there,
1696
01:30:58,911 --> 01:31:00,996
but l'm glad l went.
1697
01:31:00,997 --> 01:31:02,372
l'm really glad l went.
1698
01:31:02,373 --> 01:31:04,916
lt-it really
did something to me.
1699
01:31:04,917 --> 01:31:09,421
- Yeah.
What did it do?
1700
01:31:09,422 --> 01:31:10,922
- l don't-
l don't know what-
1701
01:31:10,923 --> 01:31:13,717
l don't know what happened,
1702
01:31:13,718 --> 01:31:16,261
but I-
immediately after the execution,
1703
01:31:16,262 --> 01:31:18,430
l felt like a-
1704
01:31:18,431 --> 01:31:21,725
that saying,
a huge weight had been lifted.
1705
01:31:21,726 --> 01:31:24,394
l actually could take
a deep breath.
1706
01:31:24,395 --> 01:31:29,691
My heart didn't ache
as much.
1707
01:31:29,692 --> 01:31:31,067
l remember walking in
1708
01:31:31,068 --> 01:31:34,112
and thinking,
"This looks like a boy."
1709
01:31:34,113 --> 01:31:36,323
l had built this huge monster,
1710
01:31:36,324 --> 01:31:42,662
evil, you know,
murdering monster in my head,
1711
01:31:42,663 --> 01:31:44,581
and he was just a boy.
1712
01:31:46,209 --> 01:31:48,460
He was just a boy
laying on that gurney.
1713
01:31:57,678 --> 01:32:01,389
When l walked in,
he looked at me,
1714
01:32:01,390 --> 01:32:03,934
and he looked away,
and he did a double take.
1715
01:32:03,935 --> 01:32:06,144
Same thing Jason Burkett
did in court.
1716
01:32:06,145 --> 01:32:07,562
l look like my mom.
1717
01:32:07,563 --> 01:32:09,439
l look a lot like my mother.
1718
01:32:10,733 --> 01:32:12,817
- And what did he say?
1719
01:32:12,818 --> 01:32:14,486
- He forgave us.
1720
01:32:14,487 --> 01:32:16,863
He forgave us.
1721
01:32:16,864 --> 01:32:18,240
Yeah.
1722
01:32:18,241 --> 01:32:20,075
And l was upset
when l walked in.
1723
01:32:20,076 --> 01:32:21,952
l was crying.
1724
01:32:21,953 --> 01:32:23,828
You know, our whole-
my whole family,
1725
01:32:23,829 --> 01:32:26,831
we didn't want to see
someone die, you know.
1726
01:32:26,832 --> 01:32:29,834
No one should have to do-
go through that,
1727
01:32:29,835 --> 01:32:33,213
but we were there for my mother,
you know, and my brother,
1728
01:32:33,214 --> 01:32:36,258
and we were crying,
and when he said he forgave us-
1729
01:32:36,259 --> 01:32:37,634
- For what?
1730
01:32:37,635 --> 01:32:39,844
- For the atrocity
brought against him.
1731
01:32:50,147 --> 01:32:53,984
And then he said
he's ready to go.
1732
01:32:53,985 --> 01:32:56,820
l heard his mother cry,
1733
01:32:56,821 --> 01:33:01,157
and they gave him
the injection.
1734
01:33:01,158 --> 01:33:06,162
He gasped for air four times.
1735
01:33:19,010 --> 01:33:20,802
l watched his shirt thump,
1736
01:33:20,803 --> 01:33:23,179
you know, his heart
beating on his shirt.
1737
01:33:23,180 --> 01:33:27,475
l watched it till it stopped,
and it stopped at 6:14.
1738
01:33:27,476 --> 01:33:30,353
one tear fell down his eye,
one tear.
1739
01:33:31,897 --> 01:33:35,108
And he was gone,
and it was over.
1740
01:33:41,198 --> 01:33:43,575
- And the prospect of someone
1741
01:33:43,576 --> 01:33:46,536
who is gonna be locked away
for life without parole,
1742
01:33:46,537 --> 01:33:47,996
would that satisfy-
1743
01:33:47,997 --> 01:33:49,456
- Definitely.
- Yes.
1744
01:33:49,457 --> 01:33:50,874
- Definitely.
1745
01:33:50,875 --> 01:33:55,462
- So it would be definitely
an alternative,
1746
01:33:55,463 --> 01:33:58,673
because death penalty sounds
a little bit too much
1747
01:33:58,674 --> 01:34:01,384
like old Testament,
the wrath of God.
1748
01:34:01,385 --> 01:34:02,761
- An eye for an eye.
1749
01:34:02,762 --> 01:34:06,431
- Jesus probably would not
have been an advocate of-
1750
01:34:06,432 --> 01:34:07,891
- Probably not.
1751
01:34:07,892 --> 01:34:10,226
Probably not.
1752
01:34:10,227 --> 01:34:13,730
But some people
just don't deserve to live.
1753
01:34:16,609 --> 01:34:18,860
- Can l say something?
- Please.
1754
01:34:18,861 --> 01:34:20,945
- l know on July the 1st
is when they-
1755
01:34:20,946 --> 01:34:25,116
they executed Michael,
1756
01:34:25,117 --> 01:34:28,745
and-and l knew Michael
pretty well.
1757
01:34:28,746 --> 01:34:30,121
- Yeah.
1758
01:34:30,122 --> 01:34:31,498
- And l kept up with-
1759
01:34:31,499 --> 01:34:34,167
l have every kind of clipping
and website thing
1760
01:34:34,168 --> 01:34:35,919
l have on him
and Jason.
1761
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:38,254
l have, like, a whole
locker box full.
1762
01:34:38,255 --> 01:34:41,591
So l know as much about him
as anybody,
1763
01:34:41,592 --> 01:34:44,928
and Michael was just-
just like Jason.
1764
01:34:44,929 --> 01:34:47,055
They were both young,
1765
01:34:47,056 --> 01:34:50,016
and whatever they did
or didn't do, l don't know.
1766
01:34:50,017 --> 01:34:53,520
l was not there,
but Michael was just a-
1767
01:34:53,521 --> 01:34:59,317
was just a young-a young kid,
and l know he-
1768
01:34:59,318 --> 01:35:02,946
l know when they executed him,
I know how he-
1769
01:35:02,947 --> 01:35:07,242
l know his last words
and everything else,
1770
01:35:07,243 --> 01:35:13,498
and I know,
by executing Michael,
1771
01:35:13,499 --> 01:35:16,334
l don't think it brought
any of those people back,
1772
01:35:16,335 --> 01:35:18,628
and I don't think
it deterred anything.
1773
01:35:18,629 --> 01:35:20,839
l-l don't think it deterred
anybody out there.
1774
01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:24,467
As much publicized as it was,
it did not deter anything,
1775
01:35:24,468 --> 01:35:26,886
and l really do not believe
that it solved anything
1776
01:35:26,887 --> 01:35:31,224
by taking another life,
and it hurt me.
1777
01:35:31,225 --> 01:35:33,476
When it come time
for his execution,
1778
01:35:33,477 --> 01:35:36,438
l knew it was gonna be
about 6:00,
1779
01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:38,940
usually a few minutes
after 6:00 P.M.,
1780
01:35:38,941 --> 01:35:43,570
and I was on my knees
at my bunk for Michael,
1781
01:35:43,571 --> 01:35:45,989
praying for Michael,
1782
01:35:45,990 --> 01:35:49,492
and a feeling come over me
1783
01:35:49,493 --> 01:35:52,620
right about ten-
five or ten minutes after 6:00,
1784
01:35:52,621 --> 01:35:55,290
a feeling come over me
that's hard-
1785
01:35:55,291 --> 01:35:56,875
very, very hard to explain.
1786
01:35:56,876 --> 01:36:00,545
lt was like l felt the loss of-
1787
01:36:00,546 --> 01:36:03,673
ofwhat used to be
my son's best friend.
1788
01:36:03,674 --> 01:36:06,050
I felt-
l felt that.
1789
01:36:06,051 --> 01:36:09,637
I felt that pain
whenever they killed him.
1790
01:36:12,141 --> 01:36:13,516
But l just wish those fam-
1791
01:36:13,517 --> 01:36:15,351
the family members
would know that,
1792
01:36:15,352 --> 01:36:19,564
how much that l-l hurt
for their loss.
1793
01:36:19,565 --> 01:36:21,858
That's very important,
and Michael never, never-
1794
01:36:21,859 --> 01:36:23,276
that's what upset them,
1795
01:36:23,277 --> 01:36:26,154
'cause Michael never tried
to reach out to 'em.
1796
01:36:26,155 --> 01:36:28,239
I wished I could
and say l'm sorry.
1797
01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:29,491
- Yeah.
1798
01:37:40,062 --> 01:37:42,188
Melyssa, let me address
one thing.
1799
01:37:42,189 --> 01:37:44,941
Among death row inmates,
1800
01:37:44,942 --> 01:37:49,737
there's such a phenomenon
like death row groupies,
1801
01:37:49,738 --> 01:37:55,243
the same way rock stars
have groupies,
1802
01:37:55,244 --> 01:37:57,078
and you have seen women
like that.
1803
01:37:57,079 --> 01:37:59,080
- l have seen women like that,
in fairness.
1804
01:37:59,081 --> 01:38:01,583
l've also seen women who are
married to death row inmates
1805
01:38:01,584 --> 01:38:04,627
in truly committed
relationships
1806
01:38:04,628 --> 01:38:07,255
that I believe
are not disingenuous
1807
01:38:07,256 --> 01:38:09,757
and I believe
come from their heart.
1808
01:38:09,758 --> 01:38:12,093
You know, some people are just
supposed to be together,
1809
01:38:12,094 --> 01:38:15,138
whether there's a cage
and lawman between you.
1810
01:38:15,139 --> 01:38:16,556
l believe that.
1811
01:38:16,557 --> 01:38:17,932
l mean, l do believe that
1812
01:38:17,933 --> 01:38:20,101
there's a fair amount of women
who want attention,
1813
01:38:20,102 --> 01:38:23,813
who want media coverage,
who seek out infamous men.
1814
01:38:23,814 --> 01:38:26,274
l mean, like Scott Peterson
gets a hundred letters a day
1815
01:38:26,275 --> 01:38:27,650
on death row in California.
1816
01:38:27,651 --> 01:38:29,027
That's ridiculous.
1817
01:38:29,028 --> 01:38:30,445
- He murdered
his pregnant wife.
1818
01:38:30,446 --> 01:38:31,821
- Yes.
1819
01:38:31,822 --> 01:38:34,115
- ls that correct, that case?
Yeah, a good-looking man.
1820
01:38:34,116 --> 01:38:35,491
- Good-looking man.
1821
01:38:35,492 --> 01:38:40,330
- However, Jason
is not an ugly man either.
1822
01:38:40,331 --> 01:38:42,457
Describe him to us, please.
1823
01:38:42,458 --> 01:38:45,043
- Like, physically?
- Yes.
1824
01:38:45,044 --> 01:38:47,545
You only have touched
his hand.
1825
01:38:47,546 --> 01:38:49,505
Describe his hands to us.
1826
01:38:52,343 --> 01:38:53,843
- They're a lot bigger
than mine.
1827
01:38:53,844 --> 01:38:56,304
l'll start there.
l have really tiny hands.
1828
01:38:56,305 --> 01:38:58,973
He always-Jason,
he holds hands funny,
1829
01:38:58,974 --> 01:39:01,434
and he always holds my hand
kind of like that
1830
01:39:01,435 --> 01:39:05,396
as opposed to intertwined,
so he holds on to me,
1831
01:39:05,397 --> 01:39:08,066
and l just know
that his hands are massive,
1832
01:39:08,067 --> 01:39:11,069
because he wears
a ring size 1 1.
1833
01:39:11,070 --> 01:39:14,530
our wedding rings,
it's an 1 1 1/2,
1834
01:39:14,531 --> 01:39:18,534
and I wear a 4,
so he can totally cup my hand.
1835
01:39:22,498 --> 01:39:24,832
- Were you allowed
to touch each other?
1836
01:39:24,833 --> 01:39:26,459
Hug each other?
1837
01:39:26,460 --> 01:39:28,127
Exchange rings?
1838
01:39:28,128 --> 01:39:31,506
- No.
1839
01:39:31,507 --> 01:39:33,633
l still can't get a ring.
1840
01:39:33,634 --> 01:39:37,220
- And you were separated
by a glass wall or-
1841
01:39:37,221 --> 01:39:39,013
- Just like this right here,
1842
01:39:39,014 --> 01:39:40,723
except for we had a phone,
1843
01:39:40,724 --> 01:39:44,435
and it was solid right here,
solid glass.
1844
01:39:44,436 --> 01:39:47,689
- But when she comes for visits,
are you allowed to hug her?
1845
01:39:47,690 --> 01:39:49,273
- l am now.
1846
01:39:49,274 --> 01:39:51,234
After we married,
l'm allowed to hug her.
1847
01:39:51,235 --> 01:39:54,696
l'm allowed to give her a kiss
before and after visit.
1848
01:39:54,697 --> 01:39:56,572
We're allowed to hold hands
on the table
1849
01:39:56,573 --> 01:39:58,199
and have contact and speak.
1850
01:39:58,200 --> 01:40:01,703
- But of course-of course
with a guard present.
1851
01:40:01,704 --> 01:40:04,539
- As close as you are to me.
1852
01:40:04,540 --> 01:40:06,416
- And you would like
to have children.
1853
01:40:06,417 --> 01:40:07,792
- Yes, sir.
1854
01:40:07,793 --> 01:40:10,003
- How would that happen?
1855
01:40:10,004 --> 01:40:12,380
How-what sort of option
is there?
1856
01:40:12,381 --> 01:40:14,590
- l want 50 children.
She wants 2.
1857
01:40:14,591 --> 01:40:17,427
So, I mean,
we have to work on this.
1858
01:40:17,428 --> 01:40:20,680
l want children
for different reasons.
1859
01:40:20,681 --> 01:40:23,975
I want children with her
specifically because l love her.
1860
01:40:23,976 --> 01:40:25,476
l want to be with her.
1861
01:40:25,477 --> 01:40:30,898
I want to give her something
that she'll always have with me.
1862
01:40:30,899 --> 01:40:32,942
- l'm under the impression
seeing you now
1863
01:40:32,943 --> 01:40:37,405
that you became pregnant
only a few days
1864
01:40:37,406 --> 01:40:41,242
after we met your husband.
1865
01:40:41,243 --> 01:40:43,953
- You guys met him
on the 18th of october?
1866
01:40:43,954 --> 01:40:45,788
- l think so, yeah,
something like that.
1867
01:40:45,789 --> 01:40:48,416
- Yeah, l believe my baby
was made
1868
01:40:48,417 --> 01:40:51,461
on the 23rd of october,
approximately.
1869
01:40:51,462 --> 01:40:52,962
- Right after
we saw your husband.
1870
01:40:52,963 --> 01:40:56,299
- 23rd or 24th.
1871
01:40:56,300 --> 01:40:59,302
- You went into action.
1872
01:40:59,303 --> 01:41:03,431
- [laughs]
So to speak.
1873
01:41:03,432 --> 01:41:07,393
- And the father of the baby
is your husband.
1874
01:41:07,394 --> 01:41:09,937
- Legally, will be Jason,
yes.
1875
01:41:09,938 --> 01:41:13,232
- And it is Jason biologically,
legally...
1876
01:41:13,233 --> 01:41:16,152
- I can't say that.
- ln every single sense.
1877
01:41:16,153 --> 01:41:20,907
Since you are not allowed
to do more than touching hands,
1878
01:41:20,908 --> 01:41:24,243
how do you become pregnant?
1879
01:41:24,244 --> 01:41:25,787
There's a mystery.
1880
01:41:25,788 --> 01:41:27,789
- Yeah, it's kind of a mystery.
1881
01:41:27,790 --> 01:41:30,625
There's people involved
that l don't want to mention.
1882
01:41:30,626 --> 01:41:34,462
- No, we would not
imply anyone,
1883
01:41:34,463 --> 01:41:37,465
but l have to speculate.
1884
01:41:37,466 --> 01:41:43,346
Is there such a thing like
contraband entering prisons,
1885
01:41:43,347 --> 01:41:48,559
like, let's say, drugs,
cell phones, illegal messages,
1886
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:51,896
there seems to be something
the other way round,
1887
01:41:51,897 --> 01:41:56,234
contraband from the prison
to the outside,
1888
01:41:56,235 --> 01:41:58,361
and you became pregnant.
1889
01:41:58,362 --> 01:41:59,737
- Well, we-
1890
01:41:59,738 --> 01:42:01,197
- Can we formulate it
like this?
1891
01:42:01,198 --> 01:42:05,701
- We-we prefer to say that
l was artificially inseminated.
1892
01:42:17,923 --> 01:42:21,592
- Do you have a name
for the boy?
1893
01:42:21,593 --> 01:42:23,928
- Well, we've-
we came up with Easton.
1894
01:42:23,929 --> 01:42:26,681
Easton Aaron.
1895
01:42:26,682 --> 01:42:28,683
- Can you show us?
l think there's a face.
1896
01:42:28,684 --> 01:42:31,352
Can you point it out?
- It's right there.
1897
01:42:31,353 --> 01:42:34,689
lf you actually can see it
close enough,
1898
01:42:34,690 --> 01:42:37,650
you can tell my baby
has my strong jaw.
1899
01:42:51,206 --> 01:42:53,374
You live on
through your children,
1900
01:42:53,375 --> 01:42:55,543
and the love
that you put into them
1901
01:42:55,544 --> 01:42:57,628
projects to the world.
1902
01:42:57,629 --> 01:42:59,005
My parents are both gone,
1903
01:42:59,006 --> 01:43:00,673
and l had this big hole
in my heart,
1904
01:43:00,674 --> 01:43:03,718
and I realized
that what you do is,
1905
01:43:03,719 --> 01:43:07,680
you take all of that love,
and you give it back.
1906
01:43:09,558 --> 01:43:12,101
l mean, nothing else matters.
1907
01:43:43,091 --> 01:43:47,136
- l actually have this shirt
tacked up on my wall.
1908
01:43:47,137 --> 01:43:49,931
- Can l see the shirt?
Can you turn it around?
1909
01:43:54,728 --> 01:43:59,190
- I just make sure-
and somebody told me about the-
1910
01:43:59,191 --> 01:44:01,359
the live your dash,
1911
01:44:01,360 --> 01:44:04,737
and that's really,
after all this-
1912
01:44:04,738 --> 01:44:06,656
that l went through
and quit and everything,
1913
01:44:06,657 --> 01:44:10,409
then I heard the story
telling me live your dash.
1914
01:44:10,410 --> 01:44:12,870
How do you-how are you gonna
live your dash?
1915
01:44:12,871 --> 01:44:14,247
And l didn't understand.
1916
01:44:14,248 --> 01:44:15,831
"What are you
talking about 'dash'?"
1917
01:44:15,832 --> 01:44:18,251
lt's on your tombstone.
1918
01:44:18,252 --> 01:44:20,378
You got your birth date,
1919
01:44:20,379 --> 01:44:22,546
and you got the day
that you decease,
1920
01:44:22,547 --> 01:44:24,382
and you got that little dash
in the middle.
1921
01:44:24,383 --> 01:44:26,968
That's your life right there.
1922
01:44:26,969 --> 01:44:29,303
That's your-
that's everything between
1923
01:44:29,304 --> 01:44:31,639
from the time you was born
from the time you die.
1924
01:44:31,640 --> 01:44:33,766
How are you gonna
live your dash?
1925
01:44:33,767 --> 01:44:35,893
And that's where l'm at now.
1926
01:44:35,894 --> 01:44:40,648
I'm gonna live my dash
and make sure that everything,
1927
01:44:40,649 --> 01:44:45,069
try to make everything right
for the family, everybody.
1928
01:44:45,070 --> 01:44:49,699
Hold still
and watch the birds.
1929
01:44:49,700 --> 01:44:53,077
And you know, once you
get up into your life like that
1930
01:44:53,078 --> 01:44:55,955
and once you feel good
about your life,
1931
01:44:55,956 --> 01:45:00,376
you under-you do start watching
what the birds do, you know,
1932
01:45:00,377 --> 01:45:02,545
what the ducks are doing,
like, the hummingbirds.
1933
01:45:02,546 --> 01:45:04,839
Wow, there's so many of them.
140523
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