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1
00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,240
We haven't arrived together once
in the last ten weeks.
2
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:17,720
It's an omen.
3
00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,360
Can I get a pint of Pride
and glass of white wine, please?
4
00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,160
An omen or a symbol?
Aren't omens bad?
5
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:24,400
Don't they just predict change?
6
00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:25,840
Well, there you are.
7
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,040
We arrive at the pub together
for our last session.
8
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,720
- Why is it our last session?
- Well, I moved back in.
9
00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,440
We've had sex twice
in the last eight days.
10
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,120
Sorted.
11
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,640
When we started seeing Kenyon,
you hadn't even moved out,
12
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,600
so you moving in just takes us
back to where we started.
13
00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:42,640
- And the sex is...
- Don't start on the sex.
14
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,320
Just leave it alone.
15
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,360
Don't knock it. It's my only
accomplishment of the year.
16
00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:49,920
Look, all I was going to say
is that...
17
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:51,880
- Thanks.
-...it should be there.
18
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,320
We're young, we're married,
we should be having sex.
19
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,040
And we are. We started seeing
Kenyon because we'd stopped.
20
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,960
And now we've started again.
So there we are. Tick, move on.
21
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,360
Cheers.
22
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,120
So what happened
to your feelings of humiliation?
23
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,400
Gone. We had sex.
24
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,000
And what your hurt and anger
about my affair?
25
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:13,680
Oh, I've buried that deep.
26
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,160
Yeah, that won't manifest itself
until much later
27
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,040
as some sort
of physical ailment.
28
00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,080
Heart attack or cancer.
29
00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,520
And you think that's healthy?
30
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,120
Do I think heart disease
or cancer are healthy?
31
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,520
No. No, I don't.
32
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,720
But the burying
which will result in cancer,
33
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:32,920
do you think that's healthy?
34
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:34,840
Yes, I do, in the short term.
35
00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:37,080
What about the other things
we talked about in the sessions?
36
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:38,600
Like what?
37
00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,560
Tom, in the last few weeks
we've both aired more grievances
38
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:41,800
than, I don't know...
39
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,320
Maybe looking at some sort
of peace process,
40
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:45,520
Middle East, Northern Ireland.
41
00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,040
I was trying
to avoid the clichés.
42
00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:48,480
The thing
about peace processes is,
43
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,880
it's usually one big grievance.
We have a thousand.
44
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,680
So I don't know
what the right analogy would be.
45
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,000
Well, ours comes down
to one really.
46
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,360
- Go on.
- We're married.
47
00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:58,800
Everything else is an offshoot.
48
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:00,280
We wouldn't argue
about my sister
49
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,240
if we weren't married.
You'd say, "How's your sister?"
50
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,040
If I knew you had one.
51
00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,480
If indeed I even knew you.
52
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,000
God, I'm presuming
we'd still be friends.
53
00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,000
- Do you think we would?
- In the right circumstances.
54
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,320
- Talk me through them.
- Don't be so rude.
55
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,560
- Why is that rude?
- Well, or sarcastic, then.
56
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,320
Hold on...
57
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,280
you suggested
that we'd only be friends
58
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:23,920
given the right circumstances.
59
00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,760
Why is it sarcastic to ask what
those circumstances might be?
60
00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,680
It's as if you can't imagine
what they might be.
61
00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:29,960
Well, I just presumed
62
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,240
that we would be friends
in any circumstances.
63
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,080
You weren't
presuming that at all.
64
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,640
You were just trying
to make me feel bad.
65
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,800
You're right. You're right.
And that's depressing.
66
00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:43,080
- Which bit?
- You knew I was winding you up
67
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,720
when I said I can't imagine
us not being friends.
68
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,680
Which, in other words,
means I was suggesting
69
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,360
the exact opposite was true.
70
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,280
Yes, that is depressing.
71
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,440
But do husbands and wives
need to be friends?
72
00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,200
- I would have thought so, yes.
- Right.
73
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:00,920
Let's just say
that on the night we met
74
00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:02,400
we hadn't ended up
in bed together,
75
00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,520
we'd just had an interesting
and agreeable conversation
76
00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:07,560
and then gone our separate ways.
What then?
77
00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,520
- What then what?
- Would you have followed up?
78
00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:10,960
Yes, of course.
79
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:12,680
- Why of course?
- I wanted to have sex with you.
80
00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,040
- Sex is off the table.
- Why?
81
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:16,720
In the parallel universe
I'm describing
82
00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,160
we're not attracted
to each other.
83
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:19,360
Oh.
84
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,640
I wouldn't have spoken to you
in the first place.
85
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,200
Oh, my God.
You were that shallow?
86
00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,520
No, hold on. It was a party.
We were in our 20s.
87
00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:31,040
You walk into the room,
you have a little glance around
88
00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:32,800
and you think,
"Ooh, where will I start?"
89
00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:34,760
And you were where I started.
90
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,640
God.
91
00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,240
All right, OK.
What about this?
92
00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,880
We had a mutual friend
who asked us over for dinner
93
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,600
and we got on.
94
00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,280
And then the friend asked us
to dinner again.
95
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,280
We got on again
and the third time it happened
96
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,080
we exchanged numbers
and agreed to go for a drink.
97
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,440
- So sex is back on the table?
- No.
98
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,840
- OK, I'm not following this.
- I'm talking about friendship.
99
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,400
Could we have been friends
100
00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,560
if we hadn't done
any of the other stuff?
101
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,440
- Yeah, I can't see it.
- Thanks.
102
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:01,680
Well, no. I mean, look,
103
00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,560
I didn't have
any friends like you.
104
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,440
I still don't have
any friends like you.
105
00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,240
When we met
you had no idea
106
00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,480
why anyone would shout Judas
at Bob Dylan.
107
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:10,880
Now I even know
the shouter's name.
108
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:12,680
- No, you don't.
- I do. Keith Butler.
109
00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:13,760
Wow.
110
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,440
Don't get side-tracked.
111
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:16,760
I'm just saying,
112
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,480
I didn't know anyone
who had a GCSE in Biology,
113
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,040
let alone someone
who devoted their life
114
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:22,320
to the health of old people.
115
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,160
You hardly knew anyone
who cleaned their teeth.
116
00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:26,640
- I always did. Still do.
- I know.
117
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,160
But where are you going with
Keith Butler and gerontology?
118
00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:31,040
They're what's so great
about sex.
119
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:32,840
Really? You can't think
of another reason?
120
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,920
No, hold on, forget about
Keith Butler and the old people.
121
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,400
I'm talking
about sexual attraction.
122
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,000
Sometimes you want
to have sex with somebody
123
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,920
who's not particularly
in your actual category.
124
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,680
Especially so in your case,
I would imagine.
125
00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,280
Otherwise you'd only
be having sex
126
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,960
with slightly malodorous men
with a bad pot habit
127
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,120
who only see daylight
during festival season.
128
00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:53,520
What about Kim?
129
00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,400
Or a slightly malodorous woman
with a bad pot habit
130
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,440
who only sees daylight
during festival season.
131
00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:58,880
A lot of people think
she's very sexy.
132
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,360
If your idea of sexy
is owning a lot of old records.
133
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,160
Which I do.
134
00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:05,160
Anyway, the point is,
we wouldn't have been friends.
135
00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:06,440
We just wouldn't.
136
00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,160
But we had sex
137
00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:11,200
and we found this cornucopia
of things we had in common
138
00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:12,760
that we would have
never unearthed otherwise.
139
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,800
For example?
140
00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,040
- Crosswords.
- That's one.
141
00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:18,040
Kids.
142
00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:19,440
You can't put kids on the list.
143
00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,400
They weren't a shared interest
before we had them.
144
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,320
But we both wanted them.
If we had both wanted...dogs
145
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,080
and we'd ended up
with a couple of Shih Tzus,
146
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:28,280
you would have allowed those.
147
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,720
All right.
Kids and crosswords.
148
00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:32,840
And I love the way you think.
149
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,160
Don't know anyone
who thinks like you.
150
00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:36,960
About what?
151
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:40,680
The world.
152
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,880
Scien... sciences.
Things like that.
153
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,440
- That is nonsense.
- Yes, I'm afraid it is.
154
00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,560
- You don't care how I think.
- I really don't, no.
155
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,080
So, what, we're not friends?
Is that the upshoot?
156
00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,120
We're married.
It's different. We...
157
00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,320
We've built a life together
in spite of everything.
158
00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,080
Shared language, family
and some sort of understanding.
159
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:07,920
Complete intimate knowledge
160
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,720
of everything to do
with the other person.
161
00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:12,600
What would you call all of that?
162
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,720
Well...
163
00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:18,000
I think I know what Kenyon
would call all of that.
164
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:19,360
I know.
165
00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,360
And I mean,
it sort of is, isn't it?
166
00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:24,720
I think it might be.
167
00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:26,120
Huh.
168
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,440
So why is that
such an unsatisfactory answer?
169
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,920
- I know what you mean.
- Do you?
170
00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,400
I think I may even know why.
171
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,360
Go on.
172
00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,000
Promise you won't
be cross with me.
173
00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,720
- No.
- Well...
174
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,960
It is...love
but without feeling,
175
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,080
if you know what I mean.
176
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:46,800
- Yes!
- Oh, thank God.
177
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,040
Exactly. Love without
the feeling. That's it.
178
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,600
You don't have to be
that enthusiastic.
179
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:52,920
Why are the kids always saying,
180
00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:54,800
"Love you. Love you, Mum.
Love you, Dad"?
181
00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:56,400
I never said that to my parents.
182
00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,600
Well, there's a reason for that,
but they say it all the time.
183
00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:00,280
And I mean, I do think
that they love us,
184
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,480
but it's deep down,
it's not on the surface
185
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,320
where cheap sentiment lives.
186
00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,400
So when they say it,
it's cheap sentiment?
187
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,200
Yeah, it means nothing.
188
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,240
Do you think that's why
we don't say, "I love you"?
189
00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:12,880
I do. I do.
190
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,120
Yes.
191
00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,160
I mean, we don't use
the expression glibly.
192
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,960
We save it for when it counts.
193
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,760
Plus we love without feeling.
194
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,320
I mean, perhaps we could
practice saying it anyway.
195
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,240
I mean between us
it would never feel glib.
196
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,880
It would just be
a simple, factual recognition
197
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,160
of the state
that exists between us.
198
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:34,440
I think that's a good idea.
199
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:40,840
- Let's put it on the list.
- Do we have a list?
200
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:42,440
- Let's start a list.
- Let's start a list.
201
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:43,840
This might be good
to do with Kenyon.
202
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,480
Absolutely it would.
203
00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,240
You know how
when you're in AA,
204
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,680
you have to go to AA meetings
when you've given up drinking?
205
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,120
Yeah, of course. They have
to be alcoholics forever.
206
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,720
I mean, "Hi, my name is Tom.
I've been sober for ten years."
207
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:03,840
I'm not an alcoholic.
208
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:05,240
That's for discussion
another time,
209
00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,000
but I think we might be
a little bit like that.
210
00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:08,160
Like what?
211
00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,080
Sort of, "Our names
are Tom and Louise
212
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:11,840
"and we are
in a permanent marital crisis
213
00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:13,560
"even though we live together
and have sex."
214
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,600
- I'm not seeing Kenyon forever.
- I'm not saying that.
215
00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,280
I'm just saying
that we should acknowledge
216
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:18,720
that we have a flawed marriage.
217
00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,720
We live on a fault line
and the house might collapse
218
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,000
at any moment.
219
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,760
And, I mean,
are we OK with that?
220
00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,600
When we started
this whole thing,
221
00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,480
you wanted to rebuild
the architecture
222
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:30,720
of our entire marriage.
223
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,120
Yes, I remember that.
224
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:34,640
But you don't think
that's possible?
225
00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,400
No, I wouldn't
have thought so. No.
226
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,280
Otherwise it wouldn't be
our marriage anymore.
227
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,880
But it might be somewhere
that we may want to live.
228
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,360
Oh, look, he's still with us.
229
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,280
Oh, well, look at that.
230
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,240
That's made me feel suddenly
hopeful about everything.
231
00:08:58,280 --> 00:08:59,800
Would you like another drink?
232
00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,920
- Are you serious?
- Let's get drunk.
233
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:06,720
- What about Kenyon?
- I'll call her
234
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,120
and tell her there's been
a child emergency.
235
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,680
Go on, you get the drinks in.
I'll call her.
236
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,440
Well... Well, I don't know
what to say.
237
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,760
Actually, I do know what to say.
238
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,160
I love you.
239
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,160
Same again please.
18261
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