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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,840 Why do we do the things we do? 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,680 What really makes us tick? 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,880 How do our minds work? 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:12,920 For centuries, 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:17,240 these questions were largely left to philosophers and theologians. 6 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,800 Then, about 100 years ago, a new science began to shine 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,320 a bright light on the inner workings of the mind. 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,480 It was called "experimental psychology". 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:36,360 In this series, I'm tracing the history of how this "new science" 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,200 revealed things about ourselves 11 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,440 that were surprising and often profoundly shocking. 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,640 The experiment requires that we continue. 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,680 But he might be dead in there! 14 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,840 In this film, I'm investigating the inventive, sometimes barbaric ways 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,280 psychology has been used to control and manipulate people. 16 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,320 How does it feel, good or bad? 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:58,560 - Good. - Good? 18 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,600 It's a science which strikes 19 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,640 at the heart of what we hold most dear - our free will. 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,560 I don't think people like having their behaviour tinkered with, 21 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,280 I don't think they like to be told what to do. 22 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:15,040 The pursuit of mind control led to some truly horrific experiments, 23 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,840 and left many casualties in its wake. 24 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,840 I only remember that I forget. 25 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:23,440 Everything. 26 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,600 But investigating the forces that shape our minds and our behaviour 27 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,960 has also led to profound insights into how the brain works. 28 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,040 Ever since I was a medical student, 29 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,640 I have been fascinated by psychology, 30 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,320 by what it has revealed about ourselves 31 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:47,160 and by how far some researchers have been prepared to go. 32 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,240 I'm on my way to Cardiff and I'm feeling apprehensive. 33 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,720 I'm about to take a class A hallucinogenic drug. 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,080 In the past, this drug and others like it were used in experiments 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,800 which were designed with a very sinister purpose - 36 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,280 to achieve total mind control. 37 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,880 The drug I'm going to be given is psilocybin, 38 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,840 the active ingredient of magic mushrooms. 39 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,640 Normally, taking psilocybin would be illegal. 40 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:40,200 - Michael. - Hello, nice to see you. 41 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,720 But in this case, Professor David Nutt 42 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,880 and his team from Imperial College are doing a scientific study, 43 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,520 the first of its kind in the UK. 44 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,520 - So, am I going to enjoy this? - I think so. 45 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,720 Most people do, most people get something positive from it. 46 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,200 We've had no bad reactions, 47 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,720 so don't worry about what you're going to feel. 48 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,080 I think you may enjoy it. 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,880 It's a bit odd, the idea of having your consciousness played with. 50 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,240 You do it all the time, don't you? 51 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,040 - Every time you go out and get drunk. - OK. 52 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:15,720 The team are expecting psilocybin to have a significant impact on me. 53 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,000 So I'm put through physical and psychological tests. 54 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,320 - Would you describe yourself as a spiritual person? - A bit. 55 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,040 - And would you describe yourself as a mystical person? - No. 56 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,880 So I'm going to prepare the drug now. 57 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,640 - See that tiny amount in there? Can you see it? - Just. 58 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:38,480 That's 3.5 milligrams, so you get two milligrams. 59 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,720 - So that's going to be it? - That's it, but it does quite a lot. 60 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,120 Surprisingly enough, 61 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,160 David Nutt believes that by changing the brain, 62 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,920 psilocybin's mind-bending properties 63 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,440 may help psychiatric disorders like depression. 64 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,600 Before they test it on patients, the team want to find out 65 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,120 exactly how it acts on normal brains like mine. 66 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:02,520 It can be quite traumatic. 67 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,560 The last volunteer we had had quite a dramatic response. 68 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,160 He said it was probably the strangest experience of his life. 69 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,600 - OK. - He said that, um, his whole sense of self dissolved, 70 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,280 and he only existed as a concept. 71 00:04:16,280 --> 00:04:17,920 MICHAEL LAUGHS 72 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:22,480 OK, I'm not sure I wish to only exist as a concept. We shall see. 73 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:27,720 I am starting to wonder what sort of trip I'm going to have. 74 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,200 I'm placed in a brain scanner 75 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:35,600 so the team can map in detail how my brain reacts to psilocybin. 76 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,360 Then the drug is injected. 77 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,040 The result? Well, it would turn out 78 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,160 to be one of the strangest and most unusual experiences of my life. 79 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,880 Today, drugs are at the cutting edge of mind control. 80 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:56,560 But down the years, scientists have experimented with more unusual ways 81 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,320 to manipulate our brains. 82 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:06,520 There is a long and murky history behind scientific attempts 83 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:11,120 to control emotions, behaviour, and decision-making. 84 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,280 I think some of the most interesting stuff can be traced 85 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:23,880 to an accidental discovery by a Russian more than 100 years ago. 86 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:30,480 In the 1890s, biologist Ivan Pavlov was studying dogs, 87 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,480 many of which had been snatched off the streets of St Petersburg. 88 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,840 His early experiments seemed to have nothing to do with mind control. 89 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:42,240 He was studying reflexes in animals. 90 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,080 Pavlov was interested in saliva, and in particular, 91 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,640 how much saliva is produced when we eat different sorts of foods. 92 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,160 Now, he studied it in dogs. 93 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,720 He operated on his dogs so he could accurately measure 94 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,720 the saliva they produced when they saw food. 95 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,200 To Pavlov's immense surprise, 96 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,640 he discovered that the dogs would salivate 97 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,920 not just when they got the food, 98 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,480 but when they simply saw the men in white coats 99 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,240 who brought them the food. 100 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,480 This was utterly unexpected. 101 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,360 Pavlov realised that his dogs had made an association 102 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,240 between the lab coat and the arrival of food. 103 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:26,080 It was this association, rather than the food itself, 104 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,520 that produced the saliva reflex. 105 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,480 Pavlov wanted to train other responses. 106 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,240 As he did so, his experiments became increasingly brutal. 107 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,360 In this experiment, the beat of the metronome 108 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,640 is combined with an electric shock. 109 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:44,880 BUZZING 110 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,520 The electric shock is given a number of times, 111 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,880 until the beat of the metronome alone 112 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,080 is enough to cause the dog to jump. 113 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,640 The Pavlovian response is one of the most famous discoveries 114 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,280 in the history of psychology. 115 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:03,000 What is less well known 116 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,400 is that Pavlov didn't confine himself to dogs. 117 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:11,200 Disturbingly, he was also involved in experiments on children. 118 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:12,600 According to Pavlov, 119 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,840 our reflexes start being conditioned from the moment we're born. 120 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,400 As we progress through life, 121 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,800 more and more of these conditioned reflexes 122 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:25,520 are implanted in our brains, building up complex behaviours. 123 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,720 And once you understand the basics 124 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,440 of how those behaviours are laid down, 125 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,880 well, perhaps you can begin to also control them. 126 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,880 BABY CRIES 127 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,920 Pavlov's discoveries are fundamental to mind control, 128 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,520 but they are limited. 129 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,760 They only condition behaviours that already exist. 130 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,560 By the time Pavlov died in the mid-1930s, 131 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,520 new techniques had been developed in America 132 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,360 that promised far more sophisticated mind manipulation. 133 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,880 These methods also held the enticing possibility 134 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,240 of being used on a grand scale. 135 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,360 The man behind these developments was so controversial 136 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,280 that he was hung in effigy. 137 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,400 The vice president described him as "most dangerous". 138 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,160 And the FBI kept a detailed file on him. 139 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,840 I'm here to meet Deborah Buzan, daughter of BF Skinner, 140 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,560 one of the most famous and infamous scientists 141 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,360 in the history of psychology. 142 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,240 - Hello. - Hello. - Michael Mosley. 143 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,600 Nice to meet you. Come in. 144 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,400 He's receiving an honorary degree at Harvard here. 145 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,600 - He was terribly proud of that. - Uh-huh. 146 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,120 And here he is with a rat. SHE LAUGHS 147 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,920 This, again, is the machine behind with the gazillion wires and things. 148 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,440 It would all be done very differently today. 149 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,400 That's my father putting the pigeon 150 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,880 into what became known as the Skinner Box. 151 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,000 The key to Skinner's research was the so-called Skinner Box. 152 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,840 He used it to create new behaviour. 153 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,360 In this Skinner Box, a pigeon is given a reward 154 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,880 every time it pecks the word "peck", 155 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,960 or turns full circle when it sees the word "turn" appear. 156 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:23,600 The pigeon has learnt 157 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,760 that when it performs these actions, it gets food. 158 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,440 So it continues to do them. 159 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:34,120 As it does so, this new behaviour is reinforced. 160 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,880 This pigeon experiment, and many like it, demonstrated graphically 161 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:42,720 that carefully-timed rewards 162 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:48,200 can reinforce, change or even create new behaviours. 163 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,720 Deborah is using her father's technique 164 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,040 to train her cats to play the piano. 165 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,480 Lola's not exactly a virtuoso, 166 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,840 but she has learnt that a little tinkle earns a piece of chicken. 167 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,960 I like the fact that she changes notes. 168 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:15,320 Oh, that was good. 169 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,400 Teaching animals cute tricks is hardly controversial, 170 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,640 but Skinner had defined a precise and powerful way 171 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,320 of modifying behaviour and said it should be used on humans. 172 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:28,520 He wanted to apply 173 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,280 his scientific methods of psychological manipulation 174 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:33,840 to whole populations. 175 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,800 He was really, essentially, telling people how to behave, 176 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,520 how to act, maybe how to create a world 177 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,640 in which people would act differently 178 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,480 from the way they already acted. 179 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,360 And I don't think people like to have their behaviour tinkered with. 180 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,680 I don't think they like to be told what to do. 181 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,840 Skinner believed that many of the problems of modern society 182 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,080 could be improved if a ruling elite 183 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,320 were to use his methods to control behaviour. 184 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,560 Using them would reduce violence and improve productivity. 185 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,080 Skinner's psychologically-controlled society brushed aside 186 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,040 an individual's role in determining and shaping their own destiny. 187 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,800 He saw belief in free will as unscientific nonsense. 188 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,600 These views polarised opinion. 189 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:34,360 On 3rd May, 1972, the same day that 6000 students cheered him on 190 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,720 in Michigan, he was hung in effigy at Indiana University. 191 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,400 He very much wanted to get across his message. I don't know 192 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:47,680 if he expected such a reception, which was not all good, of course. 193 00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:50,880 But, certainly, it made people sit up and think. 194 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,560 Skinner's utopia never materialised. 195 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:59,640 But his methods of behaviour control are now widely used 196 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,560 in everyday life. 197 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:05,160 They have been particularly influential 198 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,360 in the world of child development, 199 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,240 where the use of well-targeted rewards to encourage good behaviour 200 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,560 has become an established parenting technique. 201 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:17,440 And for some children, Skinner's methods have proved life-changing. 202 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,520 I've tried applying some of Skinner's techniques 203 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,880 to my own kids in a slightly sort of haphazard fashion. 204 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,520 What I've never done is, 205 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,440 I've never seen it applied systematically 206 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,080 and in an organised way. 207 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,760 And I'm hoping to see that in here. 208 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,600 In the Jigsaw School for Autistic Children in Surrey, 209 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,840 the teachers use a system based on Skinner's principles 210 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,680 called Applied Behaviour Analysis. 211 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:52,040 We're going to go and watch Rohit working. 212 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,280 - Take a seat. - Thank you. 213 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,920 Rohit started with us last September, 214 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,280 so he's almost done a full academic year with us. 215 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,840 He's actually behaving beautifully this morning, 216 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,440 but within his repertoire, 217 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,320 he can assault staff, he likes to pull hair. 218 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,840 Eight-year-old Rohit is working through a series of learning tasks. 219 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,400 Each task is broken down into small parts. 220 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,000 He gets a token for completing each part of the task. 221 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,440 Point to a cube. That's a cube. Good boy, give me high-five. 222 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:28,000 Well done. You can take off a token, that was lovely work. 223 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,280 Every single correct response here is being reinforced by the teacher. 224 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:32,320 Our main focus is, 225 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,160 if we're constantly praising and reinforcing appropriate behaviour, 226 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,400 we will see an increase in that appropriate behaviour. 227 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,760 - It is a mushroom. - It is a mushroom. 228 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,400 Good boy, you're trying really hard. Good job, Mister. 229 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,600 The key is to consistently reward the behaviours and responses 230 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,240 they want to encourage. 231 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:56,560 Rohit is working towards the bigger prize of time in the soft play area. 232 00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:00,760 So they get a combination of reinforcers, if you like, 233 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,960 so it's a mixture of praise, pat on the back, and a point 234 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,680 - which they know leads to a prize? - Yes. 235 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:14,400 Rohit eventually gets his prize - playtime in the soft room. 236 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,480 But more importantly, he'd sat for over an hour 237 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,120 learning picture-word associations, 238 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,480 something that would have been impossible just a year ago. 239 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,720 Are you a fan of Skinner, then? 240 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,280 I am a fan of Skinner, yes. 241 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:33,880 It is really heart-warming watching the way that Skinner's ideas 242 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,480 of positive reinforcement are being put into practice 243 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,560 in such a sort of practical way. 244 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,480 And I also think that without Skinner, 245 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,160 these kids' lives would be an awful lot bleaker. 246 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,160 Skinner believed passionately that behaviour modification 247 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,080 could and should be used to make the world a better place. 248 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,240 'A false testimony, really, 249 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,440 'which I had fabricated to keep them happy.' 250 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,120 But, in the 1950s, when he was developing his ideas, 251 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:14,200 research into mind control had already taken a more sinister turn, 252 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,360 fuelled by the ruthless needs of war. 253 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:23,120 By then, America was fighting the communists in Korea. 254 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,240 As the conflict raged, a sinister new weapon emerged. 255 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,320 'I did sign a confession, relating to germ warfare. 256 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,200 'How can I tell them these things?' 257 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:35,480 It first came to light 258 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,360 when the North Koreans paraded their American prisoners of war. 259 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,840 'How can I go back and face my family? 260 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,040 'In a civilised world, how can I tell them these things? 261 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,280 'That I am a criminal in the eyes of humanity? 262 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,000 'They are my flesh and blood.' 263 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,160 These images really disturbed people, 264 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,600 American soldiers denouncing American aggression. 265 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,800 How had the North Koreans done it? 266 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,680 How had they, in such a short period of time, 267 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,880 managed to convert them to the communist cause? 268 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,040 'How can I go back and face my family? 269 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,360 'They are my flesh and blood. 270 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,000 '..and absurd. I did sign a confession...' 271 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,800 This was a terrifying new weapon 272 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,400 that threatened the freedom of the West. 273 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,960 And they gave this weapon a name. 274 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,720 Brainwashing. 275 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,280 'People who used to be in the asylum...' 276 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:35,600 A huge effort was made 277 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,480 to try and uncover the secrets of the communist brainwashers. 278 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,520 In Britain, an ambitious psychiatrist soon became convinced 279 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,080 he knew how it was done. 280 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,920 His name was William Sargant, and his radical approach to psychiatry 281 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,640 inspired both loyalty and loathing. 282 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:02,840 He once said of himself, "Some people say I'm a wonderful doctor, 283 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,120 "others that I am the work of the devil." 284 00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:09,120 Sargant had a theory on brainwashing, 285 00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:13,760 and it was based on the work of none other than Ivan Pavlov. 286 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,320 Sargant had read about one of Pavlov's lesser-known experiments, 287 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,280 in which he'd tried to remove his dogs' conditioning. 288 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,520 Typically, Pavlov had not gone for half measures. 289 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,400 He had induced nervous breakdowns in his dogs, 290 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,280 and found that this rapidly and dramatically removed 291 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,840 the conditioned behaviour he had so painstakingly created. 292 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,800 Pavlov concluded that, during the breakdown, 293 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,480 established connections in the dogs' brains were lost. 294 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,400 When the brain rewired itself, 295 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,640 it made new connections, leading to dramatic changes in behaviour. 296 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,760 Sargant thought that Pavlov's work 297 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,240 was central to understanding brainwashing, 298 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,680 how somebody could change their core beliefs 299 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,320 in a very short period of time. 300 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,640 Just as with the dogs, Sargant believed that when a human brain 301 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,440 is broken down, connections are lost, 302 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,680 which then need to be rebuilt. 303 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,680 He decided to use this insight as the basis of a radical treatment 304 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,280 for mentally ill patients. 305 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:21,880 His aim was simple - 306 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,200 to break down and then reprogramme their troubled minds. 307 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,720 Mary Thornton was 21 when she was admitted under Sargant's care. 308 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,480 My memories are like snapshots. 309 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:44,800 One is of the electrodes being attached to the side of my head, 310 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,640 being given a general anaesthetic, 311 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,360 seeing an image of myself in the mirror one day, 312 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:55,040 seeing a strange face looking back at myself. 313 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:02,960 And being really, really frightened that I would never get out. 314 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,040 40 years on, Mary has returned 315 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:16,480 to the Royal Waterloo Hospital in London, once part of St Thomas'. 316 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:23,720 This... It... One of these rooms is the room I recovered in. 317 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,920 And it was on the left-hand side. 318 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,760 And it could have been that room. 319 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,760 It could have been a room exactly like that. 320 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,840 Mary's parents had admitted her to the hospital 321 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,920 following a series of rows over a new boyfriend. 322 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,920 I understood that I was there 323 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,240 to be treated for an acute anxiety state. 324 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:52,960 And I was told that I would be given sleep treatment to help my, erm... 325 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,480 ..head to have a nice, long rest. 326 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,760 Mary, and other patients, became unwitting guinea pigs, 327 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,720 testing Sargant's more radical ideas. 328 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,880 Every available method is used here, all at the same time. 329 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,920 Sargant believed it was essential to use a wide range of approaches 330 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,960 if he was to break down established patterns of thinking. 331 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,520 He began with a process of "modified narcosis". 332 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,360 Patients were put into a medicated sleep for up to three months. 333 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:31,080 The patients are woken three times a day for feeding, 334 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,080 and to check on whether they're getting better. 335 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,560 They were then given copious amounts of drugs, 336 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,680 combined with bouts of electric shock therapy, or ECT. 337 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,640 - OK? Go. - 110 volts for three seconds 338 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,560 through the frontal lobes of the brain. 339 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:54,080 Sargant was convinced he had to use all the tools available to him 340 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,360 if he was to wipe the slate clean. 341 00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:58,440 He had also suffered from depression, 342 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,760 and knew it could be life-threatening, 343 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,880 so the risks were worth it. 344 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,800 In all my 30 years, I've tried never to use any method 345 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,600 that I wouldn't use on myself. 346 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:09,840 All that matters is, 347 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,560 don't do unto others what you wouldn't have done to yourself. 348 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,000 For many patients like Mary, 349 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,520 this barrage of treatments had a dramatic effect on their minds. 350 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,920 I only remember that I forget. 351 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,600 Everything. 352 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,920 That's what ECT made you do. 353 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,720 In this building, I saw her maybe four times, 354 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,280 I visited maybe four times. 355 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,600 And she progressively got less aware of who I was. 356 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,080 On one occasion, she didn't know me from Adam. 357 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:58,520 After three months at the Royal Waterloo, Mary was discharged. 358 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,960 Sargant's belief that her brain, shaken and shocked, 359 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,960 would reassemble itself, free from the shackles of her past, was wrong. 360 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:12,040 When I left, I had great big black holes in my memory. 361 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,640 I was sent to convalesce to my brother in Yorkshire. 362 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,160 A week or so into my stay, 363 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,080 I suddenly remembered that I had a boyfriend, 364 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:26,440 and I found his telephone number. And I phoned him up. 365 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,360 And he came to meet me in London. 366 00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,080 Lucky for me! 367 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,640 And we've been together ever since. 368 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,360 We had her on two grams. 369 00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,880 - That's 2,000 milligrams. - Yes. 370 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,240 Sargant had shown that with drugs and ECT, 371 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,440 he could disrupt and destroy memories. 372 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,600 Yet with patients like Mary, 373 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,680 he failed to break patterns of behaviour 374 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,480 and alter personal beliefs. 375 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,880 The human mind had proved remarkably resilient to change. 376 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,640 And without these new treatments, we did have psychotherapy 377 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,720 and psychoanalysis... 378 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,280 Sargant's theories on brainwashing were flawed, 379 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,400 and rejected by many British psychiatrists. 380 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,400 'How can I go back and face my family?' 381 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,120 But across the Atlantic, in the United States, a frantic search 382 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:22,760 to learn the secrets of communist mind control continued unabated. 383 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,000 'They're my flesh and blood.' 384 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,920 In response to the threat of brainwashing, the CIA had set up 385 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,400 their own secret operation, code name MK-ULTRA. 386 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,600 MK-ULTRA employed many of the leading scientists of the day. 387 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,720 From 1953, they embarked on a series of increasingly bizarre experiments 388 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,360 designed to replicate the communist brainwashing techniques. 389 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:52,520 They subjected people to sensory deprivation, 390 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,680 total isolation, electric shocks. 391 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,640 One research area that seemed promising was drugs, 392 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,360 and one class of drug stood out from all the rest. 393 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,480 They seemed to change the world. 394 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,360 They distorted vision, and they warped sound. 395 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,560 They created vivid hallucinations. 396 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,760 Hallucinogenic drugs like LSD and psilocybin had only recently 397 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,840 been discovered, and were the subject of intense research. 398 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,440 They held out the enticing possibility 399 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,840 of controlling another person's mind. 400 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,560 Perhaps they could also change your core beliefs. 401 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:49,160 The top-secret operatives from MK-ULTRA experimented on themselves, 402 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,480 their colleagues and on unsuspecting members of the public. 403 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,240 And the American military 404 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,960 also attempted to harness their mind-bending powers. 405 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,280 - How do you feel? - I could run 100 miles right now. 406 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,880 - Is that right? - That's right. - Pretty pepped up, huh? 407 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,440 But, while the drugs were certainly mind-altering, 408 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,160 they were useless as a form of brainwashing. 409 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,800 The effects were too temporary, too unpredictable 410 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,200 to reliably alter an individual. 411 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,520 The huge effort to produce 412 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,720 a foolproof method of brainwashing had failed. 413 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,080 And following the end of the Korean War, 414 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,400 it emerged that communist techniques were also flawed. 415 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,760 Many of the soldiers who had denounced America while in captivity 416 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,040 rediscovered their patriotism when they got home. 417 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:44,320 Brainwashing turned out to be an illusory weapon of war. 418 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,600 For many years, there was diminished scientific interest 419 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,920 in the mind-altering properties of hallucinogenic drugs. 420 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,000 Now, half a century on, things are changing. 421 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,480 As part of an experiment, I have been injected with psilocybin, 422 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,920 the active component of magic mushrooms. 423 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:09,040 Professor Nutt and his team look on as the drug races through my system. 424 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:14,960 They want to understand exactly how the drug works on my brain. 425 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,760 Ten on that scale is extremely intense. 426 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,640 How anxious he feels now... 427 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,520 He'll be hallucinating, certainly. 428 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,320 He might be seeing colours and swirling patterns. 429 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,880 Probably some bodily feelings as well. 430 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,800 His body might feel slightly different. 431 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,520 Maybe a kind of floating sensation. 432 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,400 Inside the machine, I was convinced I could levitate, 433 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,760 make the walls of the scanner dissolve 434 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,560 and fly up to the stars at supersonic speed. 435 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,480 It was all rather beautiful. 436 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,640 His sense of time has slowed down. 437 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,760 OK, Michael, we're all finished, I'll come and get you out. 438 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,160 Thank you. 439 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,640 'Although the effects of psilocybin had largely worn off, 440 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,920 'I had an uncontrollable urge to talk. And talk.' 441 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,160 That was very strange, I have to say, because I thought, 442 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,760 "Whoa!" and then, "Whoo!" 443 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,720 It was really sort of, whoosh, take-off. 444 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,080 '..And talk. And talk.' 445 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,320 It took me back to when I was eight years old 446 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,880 and I used to rub my eyeballs 447 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,440 in an attempt to have religious experiences. 448 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,200 You felt it, when it came, 449 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,640 it was just like being in a sort of Star Trek thing, 450 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,120 going into hyperspace, and "whoo". 451 00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:35,280 As soon as you start thinking even the slightest bad thoughts, 452 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,240 you think, "This is really, really... 453 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,680 "I don't want to go there." 454 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,160 And actually, dragging yourself back from it is very difficult. 455 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,120 I'm still feeling very strange. 456 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:47,040 But you want to go out and share it with everyone. 457 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,520 You want to go and say, "Hello!" and talk about it. 458 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,360 My results will be merged with scans from other volunteers 459 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:59,720 to identify the precise areas inside the brain where the drug is active. 460 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,400 And you see there are essentially three big, blue blobs. 461 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,920 What blue means is that 462 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,080 - the activity of the brain has shut down. - Switched off! 463 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,640 When we went into this study, we thought that this drug 464 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,240 would activate, certainly different parts of the brain to those, 465 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,120 but we don't find any activation anywhere. 466 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:22,760 All we find are reductions in blood flow. 467 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,160 David Nutt believes that the areas of the brain 468 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,840 that are being switched off 469 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,640 are critical to the experience I've just had. 470 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,360 The blobs in the middle 471 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:36,600 are the part of the brain that tells us who and what we are. 472 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,800 When these were dampened down, I was released from everyday constraints. 473 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,360 You were able to break free 474 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,040 from the normal constraints of what you are - 475 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:49,200 "I'm a father, I've got to go home in an hour and a half, I've got to make this programme." 476 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,680 The fact that it dampens activity in these areas 477 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:52,800 may provide clues 478 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,160 as to how psilocybin could be used to treat depression. 479 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,440 One of the things we think is that, 480 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,240 if in conditions like depression or obsessive compulsive disorder, 481 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:09,400 where people get locked into a mindset which is maladaptive, 482 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,520 - these regions may be overactive. - Ah. 483 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,160 Maybe dampening those down 484 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,200 will help people move into another mindset 485 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,800 which might be better and healthier. 486 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,840 If you wanted to shift somebody who's profoundly depressed 487 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,880 out of that mindset, something like this might conceivably... 488 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,200 It's conceivable. We need to do the experiments. 489 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,000 That's part of the rationale. 490 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,920 It helps take you from this rigid, motoric process 491 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,840 of thinking, into something that may be more positive. 492 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,080 'The idea that you could use a psychedelic drug like psilocybin 493 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,840 'to treat depression is certainly surprising. 494 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,560 'If it works, one advantage is, it works fast.' 495 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,560 You changed immediately. Whether it would produce immediate changes 496 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,640 into a depressed person, we don't know. 497 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,280 If it did, it would be wonderful, wouldn't it? 498 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,240 If particularly, you could hold on to those and maintain them. 499 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,840 It may turn out that hallucinogenic drugs 500 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,240 do have a part to play in mind control. 501 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,520 As a therapeutic tool, to help patients think more positively, 502 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,680 it's a far cry from the ambitions of would-be brainwashers. 503 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,200 '"How is it possible?" I ask myself.' 504 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:30,000 In the 1960s, a new discovery would uncover a far more pervasive 505 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,280 and effective way of controlling people. 506 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,560 It was far more subtle and almost impossible to escape. 507 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,400 But he might be dead in there! 508 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,920 The new approach emphasised the importance of social pressure, 509 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,840 of the social context you find yourself in. 510 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,040 To find out more, 511 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,000 psychologists devised elaborate human experiments, 512 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,360 sometimes with shocking results. 513 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,160 The son of Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe, 514 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:06,520 Stanley Milgram wanted 515 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,880 to understand why so many people took part in the perpetration 516 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,600 of terrible war crimes. 517 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,040 Milgram was curious to find out 518 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,160 what drove German soldiers to participate in the Holocaust. 519 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,040 How is it possible, I ask myself, 520 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,840 that ordinary people, courteous and decent in everyday life, 521 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,120 can act callously, inhumanely, 522 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,000 without any limitations of conscience? 523 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,800 Milgram described the moment he conceived his experience 524 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:42,840 as "incandescent". 525 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,120 It was beautifully, almost fiendishly designed 526 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,000 to reveal uncomfortable flaws about human nature. 527 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,440 It made a huge impact worldwide. 528 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,120 I remember, as a teenager, reading about it and later watching footage. 529 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,520 It had an enormous impact on me. 530 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,080 It influenced my later decision to train as a doctor 531 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,480 with the intention of becoming a psychiatrist. 532 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,720 It's nearly 50 years since the original experiment and today, 533 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,640 I'm fortunate enough to be meeting one of the few remaining survivors. 534 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,480 - Good morning. - Morning. 535 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,320 - Hello, Michael Mosley. - Hi, Michael. 536 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,880 - Bill Menold. Nice to meet you. - Thank you very much. 537 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:26,160 'In 1962, Bill Menold had recently left the army and was working in New Haven.' 538 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,800 I happened to see an ad in the New Haven Register 539 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,440 and it said "memory and learning experiment". 540 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,280 They were going to pay you 4. I thought, 541 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,200 "Why wouldn't I do this?" 542 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,520 I've got some footage here from Yale University. 543 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:47,480 'Bill's participation in the experiment wasn't filmed, but other volunteers were.' 544 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,240 - This guy here... - He was the pupil. 545 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,800 This is basically the... experimenter. 546 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,600 - The experimenter. - The doctor. 547 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,080 The experiment involved a teacher and a learner, 548 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,160 who were given a simple set of memory tasks. 549 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,040 If the learner got the answers wrong, 550 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:14,760 the teacher had to give him electric shocks, which steadily increased. 551 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,520 Were you surprised when they talked about electric shocks? 552 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,720 I wasn't aghast or anything, 553 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:24,040 but I was, "Oh, electric shock, what a novel way to do it. 554 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,360 "Who knows what they'll think of next?" 555 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,000 What Bill and the other volunteers weren't told 556 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,520 was that the electric shocks 557 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,120 were fake and that both the experimenter and the learner 558 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,640 were, in fact, actors. 559 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,280 The real purpose of the experiment was to see how many electric shocks 560 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,160 the volunteers like Bill would administer. 561 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,840 It's very convincing, isn't it? 562 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,640 Oh, it is Academy Award nomination. 563 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,080 'Bill and the other volunteers were asked to increase the voltage 564 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,880 'every time the learner got an answer wrong.' 565 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,720 You're now getting a shock of 75 volts. 566 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:04,800 Ow! 567 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,400 180 volts. 568 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:08,640 Ow! 569 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,920 Just how far can you go on this thing? 570 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,520 Despite the apparent pain they were inflicting, 571 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,440 most continued to increase the shocks. 572 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:21,880 Incorrect. 573 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,120 150 volts. 574 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:26,280 Ah! 575 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,040 If you're sitting in that chair 576 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,960 with this stuff going on, 577 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:37,920 and the pressure that you're under, it's very hard to think clearly. 578 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,880 I'm up to 180 volts! 579 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,680 Please continue, teacher. 580 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,160 Neil, you're going to get a shock, 180 volts. 581 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,200 - SWITCH CLICKS - Ow! 582 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,560 Who's going to take the responsibility 583 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,960 if anything happens to that gentleman? 584 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,120 I'm responsible for anything that happens here. 585 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,080 Continue, please. 586 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,200 Milgram asked colleagues beforehand how many people they thought 587 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,720 would administer the lethal 450-volt shock. 588 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:08,760 Most said about 1%, and those would probably be psychopaths. 589 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,240 195 volts. Dance! 590 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:15,760 Ow! Let me out of here! 591 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,360 Then they really cranked it up. 592 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,720 You were talking about traumatic experiences. 593 00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:27,000 I've never had anything before or since that was like that. 594 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,240 Start with blue, please, at the top of the page. 595 00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:31,560 Continue, please, teacher. 596 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,280 Did you at any point think that perhaps you'd killed him? 597 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,200 Yes. 598 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,600 When he stopped responding. 599 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,640 The experiment requires that we continue. Go on, please. 600 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,080 Don't the man's health mean anything? 601 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,760 - Whether the learner likes it or not... - He might be dead in there! 602 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,720 I shut off my moral... 603 00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:55,040 compass. 604 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:56,080 Continue, please. 605 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,120 435 volts. 606 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,760 Once you make the decision... 607 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,120 you've made your decision. 608 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,720 Let's get this show on the road and get it over with. 609 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,320 The answer is "horse". 610 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,320 450 volts. 611 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,160 Next word. 612 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,480 Bill, like two thirds of the volunteers, 613 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,000 gave the lethal electric shock. 614 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,480 I thought Bill was very honest, 615 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,400 particularly when he started to talk about that moment 616 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,520 when he abandoned his moral compass 617 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,760 and he handed over responsibility for his actions to the experimenter. 618 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,600 I guess that's what Milgram demonstrated. 619 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,400 We'd like to believe we're autonomous creatures, 620 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,000 that we follow some sort of moral principles. 621 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,880 But what Milgram showed is that, in the right circumstances, 622 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:56,040 you can persuade someone to do almost anything. 623 00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:00,120 According to Milgram, Bill Menold and the other participants 624 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,760 who administered lethal shocks were not psychopaths. 625 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,920 They had simply demonstrated 626 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,040 a striking willingness to obey authority. 627 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,240 - Wrong. - It was this willingness to obey authority 628 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:15,280 that shaped and controlled their behaviour. 629 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,240 - SWITCH CLICKS - Ah! 630 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,800 Milgram said it didn't matter if you were German or American, 631 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,720 the power of authority remained the same. 632 00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:34,640 Milgram's experiments catapulted him to worldwide fame, 633 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,400 and he used his numerous television appearances to spread his ideas 634 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:40,880 to a wider audience. 635 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,000 Now, one of the illusions about human behaviour 636 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,800 is that it stems entirely from personality or character. 637 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,040 But social psychology shows us that often, 638 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,320 behaviour is dominated 639 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,480 by the social roles we're asked to play. 640 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,480 Revealing the pervasive 641 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,040 and sometimes malign influence of authority 642 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,880 chimed well with the anti-authority sentiments of the late 1960s. 643 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,880 But Milgram's own motivation was not mistrust of authority. 644 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,080 He wanted to understand WHY authority has such a hold over us. 645 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,440 To do this, he took to the streets. 646 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,280 - Yes, sir, where to? - 33 West 42nd. 647 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,800 Milgram started by pointing out how, unquestioningly, 648 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,640 we obey authority figures in a whole range of different situations. 649 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,040 In this setting, I allow things to be done to me 650 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,520 that I wouldn't allow in any other context. 651 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:42,240 The dentist is about to put his fist and electric drill into my mouth. 652 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,840 Open, please. 653 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,320 In this setting, 654 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:53,800 I willingly expose my throat to a man with a razor blade. 655 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:59,200 What he did next would throw new light on why we're so obedient. 656 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,800 Milgram wanted to see how people would behave 657 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,840 in a situation where there was no obvious authority. 658 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,600 How would you react if a perfect stranger came up to you 659 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,040 on the train and said, "I'd like your seat, please?" 660 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,760 Well, this is exactly what Milgram and his students did 661 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,320 on the New York subway. 662 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,240 Now, if you ask a New Yorker, 663 00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:23,640 would he give up his seat to a man who gives no reason for asking, 664 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,520 he'd say, "Never." But what would he do? We photographed what happened. 665 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,880 Excuse me, ma'am, may I have your seat, please? 666 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,600 - All right. - Thank you. 667 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,080 Excuse me, sir, may I have your seat, please? 668 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,160 - I guess so. - Thank you very much. 669 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,000 But would it work today? 670 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,680 I decided to repeat his experiment in a London shopping centre. 671 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,840 Excuse me, could I have that seat, please? 672 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,160 - Huh? - Could I have that seat, please? 673 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,640 - Yeah? - Could I sit there? - Why? 674 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,160 I'd like to sit down. 675 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,720 If you gave me a reason... 676 00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:04,160 - Excuse me, could I have that seat, please? - Yeah, sure. 677 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:05,680 Thank you very much. 678 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:13,880 - Excuse me, could I have your seat, please? - Yeah, sure. 679 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,400 Thank you very much. 680 00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:22,400 I was surprised by how many people complied 681 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,680 with my totally unreasonable request - about half. 682 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,000 Excuse me, could I have that seat please? 683 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,240 - Yeah. - OK, thank you. 684 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:35,400 Excuse me, could I sit there, please? 685 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,560 - Why do you want to sit here? - I want to sit down. - Pardon? 686 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:44,640 - I want to sit down. - Why can't you sit here? - Can I sit there? 687 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,600 - Is that a yes or a no? - No. 688 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,600 But what really surprised me 689 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,560 was just how difficult I personally found the whole experience. 690 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:02,040 My real feeling at this moment is one of just profound relief 691 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,360 that it's done. 692 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,240 I felt really uncomfortable throughout the whole thing. 693 00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:09,800 This is also what Milgram felt. 694 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,320 I stood in front of a passenger and I was about to say, 695 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,880 "Excuse me, sir, may I have your seat?" 696 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,240 I found something very interesting. There was an enormous inhibition. 697 00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:22,400 The words wouldn't come out. I simply couldn't utter them. 698 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,560 There was a terrible constraint against saying this simple phrase. 699 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,120 Milgram concluded that feeling socially awkward 700 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,400 and embarrassed plays an important role in governing our behaviour. 701 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,720 We don't like breaking the social rules, 702 00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:39,040 whether it's asking for someone's seat for no good reason, 703 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,160 or disobeying the instruction of somebody 704 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:42,960 whose authority we have accepted. 705 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,040 In ordinary everyday situations, 706 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,320 there's an implicit set of rules as to who's in charge. 707 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,800 If we violate these rules, it leads to the disruption of behaviour, 708 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,920 to embarrassment, awkwardness, to a kind of social chaos. 709 00:41:54,920 --> 00:42:00,200 Ordinarily, we accept the submissive role that the occasion requires. 710 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:04,560 According to Milgram, 711 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:09,920 compliance in society and obedience to authority is necessary. 712 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,960 Our social organisation depends on it. 713 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,280 If we're to have a society, 714 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:19,200 we must have members of society willing to obey its laws. 715 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,040 It's not simply a question 716 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,040 of whether or not we want to be controlled. 717 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,280 According to Milgram, our social organisation demands it. 718 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,600 As a means of control, there's no doubt that social pressure 719 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,360 is ever-present and highly effective. 720 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,640 But social pressure, like drugs or behaviour modification, 721 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,560 or even Pavlovian training, 722 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,800 wasn't able to deliver total mind control. 723 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:57,120 There was, however, still one group of scientists who believed 724 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,280 they could control behaviour and emotions with pinpoint accuracy. 725 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,360 To do so, they would have to develop techniques 726 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,120 to go directly into the brain. 727 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,080 CRACKLING 728 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,040 Are you sleepy or awake or what? 729 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,960 I'm awake now. 730 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:23,520 The origins of this approach lie in a series of bizarre experiments 731 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,280 conducted by an ambitious doctor in the American Deep South. 732 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,360 Psychiatrist Robert Heath was a maverick and a pioneer. 733 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,720 From the early 1950s onwards, in New Orleans, he used electrodes 734 00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:42,000 to stimulate and also to map out his patients' brains. 735 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,760 DOORBELL RINGS 736 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,160 - John! Hello, buddy. - Welcome, good to see you. 737 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,040 John Goethe and James Eaton 738 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,280 worked with Heath on many of his more ambitious experiments. 739 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,560 He wanted to be a discoverer. 740 00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:01,160 - He wanted to find a new path. - But there was no question 741 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,240 that there was, um... 742 00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:06,040 a light side and a dark side. 743 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,600 I really loved the guy, 744 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,200 but if you love someone, 745 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:10,960 and you're very close to them, 746 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:12,720 you see all sorts of warts. 747 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:14,480 He had plenty of warts. 748 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,840 Heath was not afraid of controversy. 749 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,400 He passionately believed you had to experiment on humans 750 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,640 to make truly significant medical breakthroughs. 751 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:33,080 He conducted his most controversial research in the state of Louisiana. 752 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:38,080 At the time, the consent process was not as rigorous as it is now. 753 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,440 His goal was ambitious - to see if he could alter behaviour 754 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,520 by sticking electrodes into people's brains. 755 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,720 Heath was inspired by experiments that had been done on rats. 756 00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:58,440 Electrodes were implanted directly into areas of the rat's brain 757 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,440 believed to be responsible for pleasure. 758 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:07,360 When the rat pressed the lever, it stimulated these areas. 759 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,440 The scientists found that this process 760 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,920 could dramatically change the rat's normal behaviour. 761 00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:15,920 BUZZING 762 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,960 This rat is prepared to run across an electrified floor 763 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,320 to reach the lever, press it, and get a pleasure kick. 764 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:32,960 Heath decided to take the extreme step of trying this on humans. 765 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,320 How do you feel? 766 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,240 It's...like coming on. 767 00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:42,920 Hmm? 768 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,520 - Like coming on. - Like something coming on? 769 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,040 What do you mean? 770 00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:52,080 'The depth electrode procedure' 771 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:57,640 involved placing these very thin wires through the skull 772 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,600 and into precisely located areas 773 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,960 thought to be important in the regulation of emotion. 774 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,360 This idea that the emotions are deep in the temporal lobes, 775 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,360 rather than being on the surface, 776 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,520 was an idea shared by many, 777 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:17,600 but he's the one who actually put a needle, put an electrode in, 778 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,880 in there and turned on the juice. 779 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,600 Can you keep pushing this yourself? 780 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,160 - Yes, sir. - All right, push this button. 781 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,080 'They had these little boxes' 782 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:31,120 and they had the electrodes in their head. 783 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,560 Whenever they felt they needed a little goose or something, 784 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,680 again, I'm simplifying it, but they could press it. 785 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,400 All right, push this button. 786 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,280 You know how to work this. 787 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,360 Heath's early patients were schizophrenics, 788 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,840 severe epileptics and depressives. 789 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,800 I feel like something is coming on. 790 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,600 - All right. Does it feel? How does it feel? Good or bad? - Good. 791 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,520 - Good? - Yes, sir. 792 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:57,560 Like the rats, 793 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,800 these human patients were able to stimulate their own brains 794 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,400 and use this pleasurable sensation to alleviate their symptoms. 795 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:14,080 - Well, I think it's... I think it's somewhat of a sexy button. - Yeah? 796 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,840 Encouraged by his results, Heath began to explore ways of using 797 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,440 deep brain stimulation to create new behaviours. 798 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:27,040 His most infamous experiment was on a 24-year-old man 799 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:31,360 with a long history of depression who had never had sex with a woman. 800 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,600 He approached Heath and asked him to change him, 801 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,120 to change his behaviour, 802 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:42,160 because he was gay and he wanted to become straight. 803 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,920 At the time, being gay was regarded as a psychiatric illness, 804 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:46,960 so Heath agreed. 805 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,080 He wasn't the first to do this. Other people had tried, 806 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,480 but nobody had done so using electrical stimulation. 807 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:57,880 Heath implanted a series of electrodes 808 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,560 into the pleasure regions of the man's brain. 809 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,200 Then he was shown some soft porn. 810 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,760 The idea was to link, in the man's mind, the pleasure he was getting 811 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,840 from the electrical stimulation 812 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:16,160 with the heterosexual behaviour he was watching on the screen. 813 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,000 At the end of the three-week period, 814 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,320 the man reported that he had growing sexual interest in women. 815 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:31,600 So Heath decided to go to the next stage. Now, this really is bizarre. 816 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,040 What he did is, he hired a prostitute for 50, 817 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,120 a woman he called a "lady of the night". 818 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,560 Her job was to have sex with a gay man 819 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,000 with electrodes sticking out of his head. 820 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,360 The wires led to recording devices in the next room, 821 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,960 where the psychiatrists were keeping a record 822 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,080 of what was going on inside his skull. 823 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,080 Well, astonishingly enough, I mean, I'm absolutely gobsmacked, 824 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,920 but astonishingly enough, according to Heath, 825 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,520 intercourse was successful. 826 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,960 In fact, the man said he'd had so much fun, 827 00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,240 got so much pleasure out of it, 828 00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:14,080 he would like to go and do it again and again. 829 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,040 Unlikely as it sounds, 830 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,840 Heath's use of electrode stimulation seemed to have worked. 831 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,960 But his patient's desire to become heterosexual 832 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,760 wasn't entirely fulfilled. 833 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,320 The young man went off and he did actually begin 834 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,480 an affair with a married woman that lasted for ten months. 835 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,640 But he also continued to have sex with men. 836 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:37,560 So a rather mixed outcome, 837 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:41,320 and Heath himself never tried to repeat the experiment. 838 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,680 - Huh? - Ooh... - You all right? - I don't like that. 839 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,200 You don't like that? 840 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,160 Heath's methods were primitive, 841 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,040 but they did pave the way for some important medical developments. 842 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:02,000 Today, the technique of deep brain stimulation has been refined 843 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,680 and improved, and is now used to treat a range of conditions. 844 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,360 It has been particularly successful for sufferers of Parkinson's. 845 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,040 Electrodes are placed in the areas of the brain 846 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,520 that control movement and help to reduce symptoms. 847 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,960 However, implanting electrodes involves major surgery 848 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,400 and the risks are considerable. 849 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,760 Although it is a huge improvement 850 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,520 on what went before, electrical stimulation is still fairly crude. 851 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,320 Even the most carefully positioned of electrodes 852 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,080 stimulates a large area of brain matter, 853 00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,040 consisting of thousands of cells. 854 00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,680 But just recently, the technology has moved on. 855 00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:51,160 Here at Oxford University, 856 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,400 they have found new ways to manipulate the brain 857 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,640 and control behaviour using a technique called optogenetics. 858 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,440 With optogenetics, scientists can control the brain 859 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:05,720 simply using light. 860 00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:09,760 I'm here to meet neuroscientist Gero Miesenbock, 861 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,760 who's been refining his technique on flies. 862 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,680 - Hello, there. - Hello. 863 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,120 - Michael Mosley. - Gero Miesenbock. 864 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,480 I gather you are lord of the flies? 865 00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,240 In some circles, I am, yes. 866 00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:24,280 And how many flies do you have here? 867 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,160 We haven't really counted them, but we have thousands of, erm, 868 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,600 vials like these. 869 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,920 Each vial has maybe 50-100 flies in them, so you do the math. 870 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,840 It's probably millions buzzing around somewhere. 871 00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,520 - Millions. You are lord of the flies! - Yeah. 872 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,600 Miesenbock earned his nickname 873 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,600 through his ability to control and manipulate the choices flies make. 874 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:52,680 We've come quite far in controlling not only simple motor acts 875 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:57,760 of the animals, but actually their psychology in rather profound ways. 876 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,400 I don't think of flies as having a psychology! 877 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,000 You just haven't worked with them for long enough. 878 00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:04,960 Can we see it in action? 879 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,000 - Yeah, let's take a look. - OK. 880 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,720 Controlling a fly's psychology is possible. 881 00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:14,640 Because of the 200,000 or so cells that make up their brains, 882 00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:19,000 he has managed to isolate a few that are responsible for learning. 883 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,920 We did find a particular small group of just 12 cells 884 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,080 lying in the central brain. 885 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,840 These 12 cells don't dictate behaviour per se. 886 00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,240 They dictate whether behaviour should be changed. 887 00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:34,000 And dictating whether behaviour should be changed 888 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,640 is a crucial part of learning. 889 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,120 Miesenbock likens the role of this group of cells 890 00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,120 to that of a nagging critic. 891 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,040 Critic is, if you wish, 892 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:47,320 the structure that holds the key to intelligence. 893 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,840 It's the structure that decides whether something is good or bad, 894 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,800 whether it's right or wrong. 895 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,480 Sort of the brain's version of the Catholic Church, 896 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,600 if you're an Austrian like me, 897 00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:02,200 or the superego if you're Freudian or your mother if you're Jewish. 898 00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,400 Miesenbock has genetically engineered his flies 899 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,840 so that he can switch on this negative nagging critical voice 900 00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,280 simply by exposing them to blue light. 901 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,480 When the blue light comes on, the cells are activated 902 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,280 and the flies start to learn. 903 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:22,480 The flies are taught to dislike whatever is in their surroundings 904 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:27,640 when the blue light is on. This is then stored as a bad memory. 905 00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:28,840 In this experiment, 906 00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,040 the flies are taught to dislike the smell of liquorice. 907 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,720 Each of these chambers contains just one fly. 908 00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:39,560 - Right. - And the fly walks up and down the length of the chamber. 909 00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,080 And, um, the left and the right half of the chamber 910 00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,360 are each filled with a different odour. 911 00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:50,080 One of these smells a bit like, as they say, a tennis shoe in July. 912 00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,720 - Right. - And the other one a little bit like liquorice. - Liquorice, OK. 913 00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:59,160 You can see that, before our optogenetic intervention, 914 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,840 the fly just explores the chamber in its entirety. 915 00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,440 They start off not caring one way or the other 916 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,680 - and you're going to manipulate their choice? - Exactly. 917 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,240 When the blue light is switched on, 918 00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:15,160 the chamber is flooded with the smell of liquorice. 919 00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:19,360 OK, now, the effect of this light is to turn on the 12 cells 920 00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,520 of the critic in the fly's brain. 921 00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,160 - And that then leads to the implantation of memory. - Right. 922 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,600 When the blue light switches off, 923 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,880 the chamber returns to its original smells. 924 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,760 Tennis shoes on the left, liquorice on the right. 925 00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,080 So now, because of that blue light, 926 00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,040 the fly has come to associate the smell of liquorice 927 00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:42,640 with something it doesn't like, 928 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,640 something it needs to avoid, something it should avoid. Right. 929 00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,200 What you see is, it's backtracking already. It made a mistake. 930 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,400 It stepped into the odour of liquorice, 931 00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:52,920 which is on the right here. 932 00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,360 Now it's back in tennis shoe, which is on the left. 933 00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,200 And you see, whenever it reaches 934 00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:01,080 the interface between the two odours, it recoils. 935 00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:06,240 You can almost see how it goes, "Eugh, this is awful!" 936 00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:08,440 - And turns around. - It's very impressive. 937 00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,560 The ability of optogenetics 938 00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,680 to pinpoint and act on very specific cells 939 00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:17,320 in the brain suggests it could be used in the future 940 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,720 for modifying human behaviour. 941 00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:23,600 I think there's medical benefits in many possible directions, 942 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,680 the neurons that matter for a particular brain function, 943 00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:28,440 be it appetite control, 944 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,480 mood, anxiety, sleep and wakefulness, attention, you name it. 945 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,920 But there are some major obstacles 946 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,880 to optogenetically controlling humans. 947 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,040 I think it's not something that's around the corner 948 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,640 in the next few years, because, remember, 949 00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:44,840 for optogenetics to work, 950 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,120 you would have to genetically modify the brain... 951 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,400 Indeed, which we are some way off doing at the moment. 952 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:55,000 Exactly. A fly normally doesn't mind, but I certainly would 953 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,640 if you wanted to implant light receptors into my brain. 954 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,840 Now, that really was quite astonishing, 955 00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,840 the idea that you can control 956 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,040 really quite sophisticated behaviour in a fly 957 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:12,760 just by manipulating 12 neurons. 958 00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,160 It's astonishing and also slightly worrying, 959 00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,640 because it makes you wonder whether the same is true of humans. 960 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,440 But I think that because human brains are so much bigger 961 00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,080 and more complex than insect brains, 962 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,240 it is going to be a long time, 963 00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:31,480 if ever, before technology like that is applied to us. 964 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,800 I've no doubt the technology used to study the brain 965 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,800 will continue to advance... 966 00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,840 And that in doing so, we will make giant strides in understanding 967 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:50,960 the workings of our own minds. 968 00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:54,680 But what I find reassuring is that, 969 00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:57,880 although many people have tried to manipulate our minds, 970 00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:03,000 the human brain has so far proved to be too complex to finely control, 971 00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,200 our personalities too resilient. 972 00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,840 Down the years, the brain has been pushed around, 973 00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,720 probed, drugged and electrified. 974 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,200 But it remains impressively hard to control, 975 00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,640 and I find that very comforting. 82206

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