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- Ooh, ooh.
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00:01:09,460 --> 00:01:11,260
- We'll breathe deep.
3
00:01:11,260 --> 00:01:12,590
- Yeah.
4
00:01:12,590 --> 00:01:15,519
- 'Cause you have
to breathe deep
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00:01:15,530 --> 00:01:17,030
before you do anything.
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00:02:12,219 --> 00:02:14,550
- On August 16, 1958,
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00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,829
Silvio Ciccone drove
his wife Madonna
8
00:02:16,829 --> 00:02:19,800
to Mercy Hospital in
Bay City, Michigan
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00:02:19,819 --> 00:02:23,030
to give birth to
their first daughter,
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00:02:28,900 --> 00:02:31,370
a child who would be
named after her mother,
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00:02:31,370 --> 00:02:32,939
and who would become
one of the biggest stars
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00:02:32,939 --> 00:02:36,939
in entertainment that
the world has ever known.
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00:02:40,349 --> 00:02:45,349
Madonna was raised in this
ranch home in Pontiac, Michigan.
14
00:02:48,289 --> 00:02:50,289
The Ciccones already
had two children
15
00:02:50,289 --> 00:02:52,420
before Madonna arrived,
and they would have
16
00:02:52,430 --> 00:02:54,500
two more children after her.
17
00:03:00,599 --> 00:03:03,400
Madonna's mother
became seriously ill,
18
00:03:03,409 --> 00:03:05,379
and spending time with
her children became more
19
00:03:05,379 --> 00:03:07,240
and more of a struggle
20
00:03:09,810 --> 00:03:13,310
until she eventually
passed away.
21
00:03:13,319 --> 00:03:15,650
Madonna was just five years old.
22
00:03:22,490 --> 00:03:26,689
Raising five children on his
own wasn't easy for Silvio.
23
00:03:26,699 --> 00:03:29,229
While he was at work, Madonna
and her siblings spent a lot
24
00:03:29,229 --> 00:03:33,329
of time at this Bay City
home of their grandmother
25
00:03:33,340 --> 00:03:37,509
and at this very park
directly across the street.
26
00:03:38,770 --> 00:03:40,770
When Madonna was an
adolescent, the family moved
27
00:03:40,780 --> 00:03:45,079
to a more affluent neighborhood
in Rochester, Michigan.
28
00:03:45,079 --> 00:03:47,650
It was here in this building
on Main Street that Madonna,
29
00:03:47,650 --> 00:03:50,479
as an early teen,
entered ballet school.
30
00:03:51,889 --> 00:03:55,060
The teacher, Christopher
Flynn, took a liking to Madonna
31
00:03:55,060 --> 00:03:57,530
and they developed a friendship.
32
00:03:57,530 --> 00:04:00,500
He mentored her and taught
her about art and culture
33
00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:02,969
outside of suburban Michigan.
34
00:04:02,973 --> 00:04:04,990
He also convinced her
that she was special
35
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,900
and that she was beautiful,
words she wasn't used to,
36
00:04:08,900 --> 00:04:12,000
and words that she
needed to hear.
37
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:14,879
Christopher became
a dance teacher
38
00:04:14,879 --> 00:04:17,379
at the University of Michigan
and convinced Madonna
39
00:04:17,379 --> 00:04:19,779
to apply for a scholarship.
40
00:04:19,779 --> 00:04:22,079
It was here that Madonna
met a graduate dance student
41
00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:23,709
named Peter Kentes.
42
00:04:25,949 --> 00:04:27,519
- The dance program at
the University of Michigan
43
00:04:27,519 --> 00:04:29,850
at the time was a
conservatory approach.
44
00:04:29,860 --> 00:04:32,230
There were only about
50 dance majors total
45
00:04:32,230 --> 00:04:35,159
between undergraduates
and graduates.
46
00:04:35,159 --> 00:04:39,029
The first time I actually saw
her was in the dance lounge
47
00:04:39,029 --> 00:04:42,000
where the dancers would
hang out between classes.
48
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,870
What stood out to me was
the fact that there she was.
49
00:04:44,870 --> 00:04:46,800
Everyone else was sort of
sitting around relaxing
50
00:04:46,810 --> 00:04:48,980
and she was workin' hard.
51
00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,009
- For his
graduating thesis project,
52
00:04:52,009 --> 00:04:55,909
Peter included his new friend
Madonna in the choreography.
53
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,490
- Madonna's character
was very specific.
54
00:04:59,490 --> 00:05:02,629
Her character was
based on the customers
55
00:05:02,634 --> 00:05:06,759
that came into this liquor
store late at night.
56
00:05:06,759 --> 00:05:11,829
So, she was able to take that
as a theme and develop that.
57
00:05:13,129 --> 00:05:16,899
Sorta spicy, sort of very
similar to her own personality.
58
00:05:18,269 --> 00:05:20,470
I think it was easier for
her to get in character,
59
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,310
and she added
spice to the dance.
60
00:05:27,649 --> 00:05:29,750
The pictures I took a few weeks
61
00:05:29,750 --> 00:05:32,220
before the show one afternoon,
62
00:05:32,220 --> 00:05:34,149
and I did all the dancers
at different times,
63
00:05:34,159 --> 00:05:38,699
but the one photo that Madonna
maybe wasn't happiest about
64
00:05:38,704 --> 00:05:41,689
was where she's bending over
looking between her legs,
65
00:05:41,699 --> 00:05:45,899
but I think the reason is
because during her solo
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00:05:45,899 --> 00:05:48,300
I accidentally let
that one stay up
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00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:51,199
on the wall a
little bit too long.
68
00:05:53,639 --> 00:05:55,970
- Peter was
very into astrology
69
00:05:55,980 --> 00:05:58,110
and predictions based
upon birth dates
70
00:05:58,110 --> 00:06:02,680
and how the moon, sun,
and stars are aligned.
71
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:03,910
- These two.
72
00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,889
- Yeah, I was a self
taught astrologer.
73
00:06:05,889 --> 00:06:08,389
I have maybe 30 or 40
books that I purchased
74
00:06:08,389 --> 00:06:10,220
and read and studied.
75
00:06:10,230 --> 00:06:11,459
One of the things
I enjoyed doing
76
00:06:11,459 --> 00:06:14,759
was doing charts for
people, birth charts.
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00:06:14,759 --> 00:06:16,860
I was never a person that
sort of like read my horoscope
78
00:06:16,870 --> 00:06:20,139
and not go out that day, but
when I did Madonna's chart,
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00:06:20,139 --> 00:06:21,970
- And you can see the full--
- and I had done maybe
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00:06:21,970 --> 00:06:26,370
over a hundred readings for
friends up to this time,
81
00:06:28,180 --> 00:06:30,379
but this was the first
one where the reading,
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00:06:30,379 --> 00:06:31,680
everything sort of came out
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00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,649
she was gonna be
rich and famous.
84
00:06:33,649 --> 00:06:35,050
- It's gonna be such
a crazy ride for you.
85
00:06:35,050 --> 00:06:38,920
- Here I was looking
at a skinny 18 year-old
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00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,790
with bruised up legs
and red plastic shoes,
87
00:06:41,790 --> 00:06:44,790
and there couldn't have been
a more unlikely candidate
88
00:06:44,790 --> 00:06:48,490
to be rich and famous than
Madonna when she was 18.
89
00:06:48,500 --> 00:06:52,100
Except in her mind, I think
that was her plan all along
90
00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:54,370
because she didn't seem
surprised when I told her.
91
00:06:54,370 --> 00:06:57,670
- I've
never seen it do that.
92
00:06:57,670 --> 00:07:00,639
- I hadn't heard from
Madonna for a few months.
93
00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:03,670
School had started, and
she had not enrolled.
94
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,079
I got a call saying she
needed a ride to the airport
95
00:07:06,079 --> 00:07:07,480
and I said, yeah, sure.
96
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:08,810
And I went, picked her up.
97
00:07:08,819 --> 00:07:10,949
She had her little
doll under her arm,
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00:07:10,949 --> 00:07:12,519
a little backpack,
and a suitcase,
99
00:07:12,519 --> 00:07:14,750
and Christopher, her ballet
teacher, was there as well.
100
00:07:14,759 --> 00:07:18,329
We piled in the car, and we
took her to the Metro Airport,
101
00:07:18,329 --> 00:07:20,259
Detroit Metro Airport
and dropped her off.
102
00:07:20,259 --> 00:07:21,790
She was ready to leave.
103
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:22,769
She was ready to move on.
104
00:07:22,771 --> 00:07:23,689
She wanted to go.
105
00:07:23,699 --> 00:07:25,569
She wanted to go to New York.
106
00:07:25,569 --> 00:07:26,800
She was excited to be going.
107
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,069
It was a little trepidatious
108
00:07:29,069 --> 00:07:31,399
because it's such a scary thing.
109
00:07:35,610 --> 00:07:37,110
- Immediately
upon arrival,
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00:07:37,110 --> 00:07:40,050
Madonna began taking dance
classes with Pearl Lang
111
00:07:40,050 --> 00:07:42,250
and other notable teachers.
112
00:07:42,250 --> 00:07:43,720
She was prepared to
do whatever it took
113
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,790
to become a professional dancer.
114
00:07:46,790 --> 00:07:48,319
- I met Madonna.
115
00:07:48,319 --> 00:07:51,250
I had a lot of friends over
the years who were dancers.
116
00:07:51,259 --> 00:07:54,259
Yeah, dancers,
actors, musicians.
117
00:07:54,259 --> 00:07:57,290
I had a really good friend
named Michael who was a dancer,
118
00:07:57,300 --> 00:08:00,699
and he was studying with
someone named Pearl Lang,
119
00:08:00,699 --> 00:08:03,629
who was an avant garde dancer.
120
00:08:03,639 --> 00:08:07,209
So, I was invited to a party,
and people were dancing
121
00:08:07,209 --> 00:08:09,639
on the living room floor,
and I noticed this woman
122
00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:12,910
who was dancing, spinning
in the middle of the floor,
123
00:08:12,910 --> 00:08:17,579
and it looked as though she
was dancing in a ring of fire,
124
00:08:17,589 --> 00:08:20,560
and everyone was
moving around her.
125
00:08:21,660 --> 00:08:23,459
I had a sense that
she was somebody
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00:08:23,459 --> 00:08:26,860
who was gonna do
something in the world.
127
00:08:29,829 --> 00:08:34,570
She kinda came up to me
and said, "Oh, nice arms.
128
00:08:34,570 --> 00:08:36,970
"You kinda look like
Brando a little bit."
129
00:08:36,970 --> 00:08:38,440
That was kind of her lead in.
130
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,509
So, I got the sense that
that might go somewhere.
131
00:08:42,539 --> 00:08:44,169
She called me up the next day.
132
00:08:44,179 --> 00:08:46,549
She was over at Michael's house.
133
00:08:46,549 --> 00:08:48,279
They had--
- Hello?
134
00:08:48,279 --> 00:08:50,009
- It seemed like they
had a thing going,
135
00:08:50,019 --> 00:08:51,990
but she called me
up from his house
136
00:08:51,990 --> 00:08:55,429
and said, "Get your gorgeous
Brando body over here,"
137
00:08:55,432 --> 00:08:59,460
which was a nice,
definitely a nice come on.
138
00:08:59,460 --> 00:09:00,690
- Well, good morning.
139
00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:02,600
- Yeah, so
are you coming or not?
140
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,470
- I said, why don't you
guys come over here?
141
00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:07,840
I don't know why I suggested
they come to my place.
142
00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,110
- All right, so I'll see you--
143
00:09:10,115 --> 00:09:13,669
- Bye.
144
00:09:15,009 --> 00:09:17,779
- But it didn't really
go any further than that.
145
00:09:17,779 --> 00:09:19,809
She had to go to dance class.
146
00:09:19,809 --> 00:09:24,879
I got the feeling that she
was very committed to dancing.
147
00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:28,320
Seemed like she was always
off going somewhere,
148
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,649
had something to do with
dancing or performance.
149
00:09:31,659 --> 00:09:35,230
Working really, really hard,
almost like obsessively hard,
150
00:09:35,230 --> 00:09:38,870
and I know she was
doing the modeling.
151
00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:41,570
I know she was
waitressing a little bit,
152
00:09:41,570 --> 00:09:44,539
but I got the feeling that she
didn't have a lot of money.
153
00:10:06,889 --> 00:10:09,889
- Oh God, I don't wanna be this.
154
00:10:09,899 --> 00:10:12,370
- Yeah, but then you say
- Why would you want this?
155
00:10:12,370 --> 00:10:14,940
- to yourself, man,
look at what I can do,
156
00:10:14,940 --> 00:10:17,870
that other people, they
wouldn't think of doin'.
157
00:10:17,870 --> 00:10:19,539
- I mean, I guess, but--
- I know, I know part of it
158
00:10:19,539 --> 00:10:21,409
has to do with your head, right?
159
00:10:21,409 --> 00:10:24,080
I know that it's
true, but other people
160
00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,350
wouldn't think of doing
the stuff that I do or you.
161
00:10:27,350 --> 00:10:31,519
- Well, of course not,
but people always look at,
162
00:10:31,519 --> 00:10:34,120
they always look at you before
they look at what you do.
163
00:10:46,570 --> 00:10:49,370
- To make ends
meet, Madonna began working
164
00:10:49,370 --> 00:10:51,940
as a model for nude
photography classes
165
00:10:51,940 --> 00:10:56,539
at The New School and other
locations in New York City.
166
00:10:59,779 --> 00:11:04,120
- My first session with Madonna
was in 1979 in February,
167
00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,320
and I think, if I
recall, I had spoken
168
00:11:08,519 --> 00:11:10,720
to the model registrar,
and I said look,
169
00:11:10,730 --> 00:11:14,070
can you send me a girl who
really has a really nice body?
170
00:11:14,073 --> 00:11:17,389
And that's how I got
Madonna to come to class,
171
00:11:17,399 --> 00:11:19,269
and I was very
pleased, obviously.
172
00:11:19,269 --> 00:11:21,070
To me, she was very
beautiful and pretty
173
00:11:21,070 --> 00:11:25,470
and had a fantastic body,
and that's the first time.
174
00:11:30,340 --> 00:11:32,139
I always said,
look, for the guys,
175
00:11:32,149 --> 00:11:35,289
get your dick out of
your brain or something.
176
00:11:35,292 --> 00:11:37,450
This is not about sex,
it's about sculpture.
177
00:11:37,450 --> 00:11:38,679
It's about a body.
178
00:11:38,690 --> 00:11:41,090
It's about what you
can show with it.
179
00:11:41,090 --> 00:11:43,720
And then I put the model
in different positions
180
00:11:43,730 --> 00:11:45,399
to accentuate form.
181
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,070
My photographs were
very sculptural,
182
00:11:49,073 --> 00:11:50,929
there was nothing
about sex in them.
183
00:11:50,929 --> 00:11:52,659
That's how I see it.
184
00:11:55,340 --> 00:11:59,980
I didn't get the impression
she enjoyed it, necessarily.
185
00:11:59,984 --> 00:12:02,669
It was something to
do to make some money.
186
00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,110
It's just here I am.
187
00:12:04,110 --> 00:12:06,179
I'm naked, I'm nude.
188
00:12:06,179 --> 00:12:09,149
Take your pictures of
me, and let me outta here
189
00:12:09,149 --> 00:12:13,690
and get me paid,
you know?
190
00:12:18,690 --> 00:12:21,059
- We liked to hang out
on the Upper West Side,
191
00:12:21,059 --> 00:12:24,259
like up near Grant's
Tomb, areas like that.
192
00:12:24,269 --> 00:12:25,870
There were Corinthian columns,
193
00:12:25,870 --> 00:12:30,470
buildings that had classical
Greco-Roman architecture.
194
00:12:30,470 --> 00:12:33,269
We liked each other a
lot, and we were attracted
195
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:37,039
to each other, but I
don't know if there was
196
00:12:38,110 --> 00:12:40,240
any potential for a
long term deeper thing.
197
00:12:40,250 --> 00:12:42,649
So, we basically drifted apart
198
00:12:42,649 --> 00:12:47,320
over the period of about
three months we were together.
199
00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,899
I hadn't seen her
for several months,
200
00:12:52,902 --> 00:12:56,059
and I bumped into
her on 34th Street.
201
00:12:56,929 --> 00:12:57,830
- N.B.!
202
00:13:04,409 --> 00:13:05,460
Norris!
203
00:13:05,460 --> 00:13:06,509
- And, just bumped
into her on the street,
204
00:13:06,509 --> 00:13:07,809
and I say, hey, how
ya doin', Madonna?
205
00:13:07,809 --> 00:13:09,039
Nice to see you.
206
00:13:09,039 --> 00:13:11,409
And she was really
warm and affectionate,
207
00:13:11,409 --> 00:13:13,710
and we talked a little bit.
208
00:13:14,950 --> 00:13:16,320
- I quit dancing.
209
00:13:17,289 --> 00:13:18,389
- Wait, what?
210
00:13:18,389 --> 00:13:19,860
What do you mean, you quit?
211
00:13:19,864 --> 00:13:23,049
I thought that was the
whole reason you came here.
212
00:13:23,059 --> 00:13:24,389
- She said, "Well, ya
know, I just felt like
213
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:26,490
"it wasn't going anywhere.
214
00:13:26,490 --> 00:13:29,389
"Also, I felt like
my body was hurting,"
215
00:13:29,399 --> 00:13:32,299
and I realized
that, she realized
216
00:13:32,299 --> 00:13:34,700
that this would be her life.
217
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,000
- So, now what?
218
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,669
Now what are you gonna do?
219
00:13:39,669 --> 00:13:41,740
- Maybe acting or music?
220
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,710
- So, I invited
her to this party.
221
00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:47,539
I said I think you might
meet some fun people there,
222
00:13:47,549 --> 00:13:49,980
some interesting, there's
gonna be a lot of artists,
223
00:13:49,980 --> 00:13:53,009
musicians, colorful,
your type of people.
224
00:13:53,019 --> 00:13:57,620
I think you might dig,
you might enjoy the scene.
225
00:13:57,629 --> 00:13:59,399
So, she said, "Yeah,
sure, I'll be there."
226
00:14:00,289 --> 00:14:02,259
Lo and behold, she was.
227
00:14:05,299 --> 00:14:06,799
- I first met Madonna at a party
228
00:14:06,799 --> 00:14:09,870
given by my friend
Norris Burroughs.
229
00:14:11,169 --> 00:14:12,639
She seemed to be,
230
00:14:14,409 --> 00:14:18,250
looked like she felt out
of place at the party.
231
00:14:18,250 --> 00:14:20,450
- I met Dan at a hand
painted T-shirt company
232
00:14:20,450 --> 00:14:21,980
called the Lotus Shop,
233
00:14:21,980 --> 00:14:25,779
and it was Saint Mark's
Place in the East Village.
234
00:14:25,789 --> 00:14:27,389
I kind of gravitated towards Dan
235
00:14:27,389 --> 00:14:30,659
because we were both
musicians as well as artists,
236
00:14:30,659 --> 00:14:33,289
and we had a similar
sort of sense of humor,
237
00:14:33,289 --> 00:14:36,629
and we both kind of
like were attracted
238
00:14:36,629 --> 00:14:39,929
to the same women, which
was an interesting,
239
00:14:39,929 --> 00:14:42,429
something that
manifested over the years
240
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,610
with interesting results.
241
00:14:44,610 --> 00:14:45,879
- I mean, yes.
242
00:14:45,881 --> 00:14:47,039
I mean, I am doing
what you asked,
243
00:14:47,039 --> 00:14:48,269
and you're socializing?
244
00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:50,850
- As beautiful as she
was, that kind of thing
245
00:14:50,850 --> 00:14:53,720
didn't exactly, ya know,
gee, I gotta go hang out,
246
00:14:53,724 --> 00:14:56,379
'cause it looked
like she didn't,
247
00:14:56,379 --> 00:14:59,110
was not really enjoying
herself all that much.
248
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:00,720
I could even be wrong.
249
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,750
Maybe that was just her way.
250
00:15:02,759 --> 00:15:04,960
- I wasn't sure if anyone...
251
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,059
- Sorry, this
stupid clasp keeps--
252
00:15:07,059 --> 00:15:09,129
- I don't remember exactly
what the issue was.
253
00:15:09,129 --> 00:15:12,330
It was either a broken clasp
or a button or something,
254
00:15:12,330 --> 00:15:14,759
but she asked for assistance,
255
00:15:14,769 --> 00:15:17,039
and whatever it was
that needed doing,
256
00:15:17,039 --> 00:15:18,639
I helped her with it.
257
00:15:18,639 --> 00:15:19,740
- Thanks.
258
00:15:28,679 --> 00:15:29,580
Well?
259
00:15:31,190 --> 00:15:33,590
Aren't you going to kiss me?
260
00:15:36,220 --> 00:15:38,019
- It actually, it felt
a little like a scene
261
00:15:38,029 --> 00:15:40,429
from a movie to me,
because ya know,
262
00:15:40,429 --> 00:15:41,830
"Aren't you gonna kiss me?"
263
00:15:41,830 --> 00:15:43,899
Have I heard that
in a, I'm not sure.
264
00:15:43,899 --> 00:15:46,269
I did kiss her, though.
265
00:15:46,269 --> 00:15:47,470
It wasn't a long kiss.
266
00:15:47,470 --> 00:15:49,340
I mean, it was, 'cause
I had just met her
267
00:15:49,340 --> 00:15:51,470
and she was so beautiful.
268
00:15:53,570 --> 00:15:54,970
- I knew he was gonna be there,
269
00:15:54,980 --> 00:15:58,580
but I wasn't really
thinking along those lines,
270
00:15:58,580 --> 00:16:00,549
but when I first
saw them together,
271
00:16:00,549 --> 00:16:04,019
I noticed that there was
an attraction between them.
272
00:16:04,019 --> 00:16:06,289
So, it seemed inevitable
in the moment.
273
00:16:15,129 --> 00:16:17,230
- We left together, we
left the party together,
274
00:16:17,230 --> 00:16:18,429
and walked around.
275
00:16:18,429 --> 00:16:21,929
We walked around the
place, around Manhattan,
276
00:16:21,940 --> 00:16:23,639
for about an hour or so.
277
00:16:25,139 --> 00:16:29,480
And then I said goodbye to her
at wherever she was headed.
278
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,450
I think it was a
stairway, and there was
279
00:16:32,450 --> 00:16:34,120
a little romantic interplay,
280
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,690
and she went off
down the hallway.
281
00:16:36,693 --> 00:16:41,080
She was very assertive, though,
a very assertive person,
282
00:16:41,090 --> 00:16:43,659
and it made me certainly
wanna see her again,
283
00:16:43,659 --> 00:16:47,600
and I think a few days
later, we had our first date.
284
00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:52,700
We took a bus ride
up to The Cloisters.
285
00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:55,070
I met her at the bus.
286
00:16:55,070 --> 00:16:56,470
We were the only
ones on the bus,
287
00:16:56,470 --> 00:17:00,639
so, I took a bunch of
pictures on the way up there.
288
00:17:22,759 --> 00:17:26,200
And then the bus filled
in a little while later.
289
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,700
We took some more pictures
and some kids were gawkin'
290
00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:32,029
at what's goin' on, and
she had 'em come back
291
00:17:32,039 --> 00:17:34,009
and pose for a picture.
292
00:17:35,140 --> 00:17:37,410
This is the first time
I was ever with her,
293
00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:40,309
and she was doin' all kinds
of antics on the seat,
294
00:17:40,309 --> 00:17:42,539
the back of the thing,
295
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:45,420
lying on the back of the
seat with her head down,
296
00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:47,549
just posin' for pictures.
297
00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:51,559
I had a camera, and
she was right there
298
00:17:51,559 --> 00:17:56,029
posing for the
pictures.
299
00:18:00,769 --> 00:18:04,940
I think I had been to The
Cloisters in grade school
300
00:18:04,940 --> 00:18:07,410
as like a trip, like
some kind of field trip.
301
00:18:07,410 --> 00:18:10,740
The Cloisters was a convent
that was brought over,
302
00:18:10,740 --> 00:18:14,240
every stone was brought
over and rebuilt.
303
00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:05,970
- Well, everybody had
long hair in Jerusalem
304
00:19:05,970 --> 00:19:08,400
when Jesus Christ was young.
305
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,970
They all must have looked
sort of androgynous, right?
306
00:19:11,970 --> 00:19:13,339
- Yeah.
- 'Cause they had on
307
00:19:13,339 --> 00:19:15,910
those long robes on and stuff.
308
00:19:15,910 --> 00:19:17,309
- Yeah.
- Right?
309
00:19:18,410 --> 00:19:21,339
- Yeah, except the
men all had beards.
310
00:19:21,349 --> 00:19:22,250
- Oh yeah.
311
00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:27,119
When do you think
the guy first shaved,
312
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:28,490
the first guy shaved?
313
00:19:28,490 --> 00:19:31,619
- I'm sure they trimmed
their beard with rocks.
314
00:19:31,630 --> 00:19:33,299
The first guy that shaved,
it couldn't have been
315
00:19:33,301 --> 00:19:35,960
a very close shave with a rock.
316
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,470
- Wonder why he
started to do it.
317
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:43,940
Bet ya guy got a zit and he
needed to squeeze it out.
318
00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:45,339
- Or--
- Shaved it off.
319
00:19:45,339 --> 00:19:46,809
- A bat got caught in it.
320
00:19:46,809 --> 00:19:48,009
- Or a mouse?
321
00:19:48,009 --> 00:19:49,809
- Yeah, a creature.
- But how come--
322
00:19:49,809 --> 00:19:51,410
- Everyone said it
looks pretty good.
323
00:19:51,410 --> 00:19:54,079
- But how--
- This is good.
324
00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:56,750
- How come rats are
ugly and mouses aren't?
325
00:19:56,750 --> 00:19:58,220
- It's the scale.
326
00:20:04,990 --> 00:20:06,589
- Dan was
living in Corona Queens
327
00:20:06,589 --> 00:20:10,460
with his brother in an
abandoned former synagogue.
328
00:20:10,460 --> 00:20:12,759
- Some friends of mine
from graduate school
329
00:20:12,769 --> 00:20:15,809
found this old
synagogue in Queens,
330
00:20:15,811 --> 00:20:19,400
and they poured a new floor
and put in electricity.
331
00:20:19,410 --> 00:20:21,640
It had been abandoned
for 15 years.
332
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,980
And one guy left,
somebody got married,
333
00:20:24,980 --> 00:20:28,380
and they asked me to
move in, so, I did.
334
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,079
- Dan invited
Madonna over to the synagogue
335
00:20:31,089 --> 00:20:33,190
where they would spend
more and more time
336
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:35,490
getting to know each other.
337
00:20:35,490 --> 00:20:40,230
It was here that Madonna would
begin her journey into music.
338
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:43,599
- Danny and Madonna
were seeing each other.
339
00:20:43,599 --> 00:20:46,299
This is probably the
beginning, I'm thinkin' '78.
340
00:20:46,299 --> 00:20:49,130
They met at a May Day party,
341
00:20:49,140 --> 00:20:54,210
probably with, I think it
was Norris Burroughs's party.
342
00:20:54,910 --> 00:20:55,880
So, they hit it off.
343
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,109
They started seeing each other,
344
00:20:57,109 --> 00:21:00,140
and she would come
over and stay.
345
00:21:00,150 --> 00:21:03,450
So, that's how I met her
over here in the synagogue.
346
00:21:26,069 --> 00:21:28,339
This is the way we got in.
347
00:21:28,339 --> 00:21:30,269
Even though there's
a gate in the front,
348
00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:33,480
back in those days
that gate was kaput.
349
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,980
So, we had to come in this way.
350
00:21:35,980 --> 00:21:38,049
It's a wonderful
neighborhood, you'll love it.
351
00:21:38,049 --> 00:21:39,380
No.
352
00:21:39,390 --> 00:21:40,619
So, come on in.
353
00:21:40,619 --> 00:21:43,789
This is the studio
where we rehearsed,
354
00:21:43,789 --> 00:21:46,119
we played, we jammed.
355
00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:49,170
This is, you know, the
general living space
356
00:21:49,173 --> 00:21:52,660
where everybody kind
of would congregate.
357
00:21:52,670 --> 00:21:54,839
By everyone, I mean
me, Dan, and Madonna,
358
00:21:54,839 --> 00:21:56,509
and then we'd, you
know, play around.
359
00:21:56,510 --> 00:21:58,029
Here are the drums.
360
00:21:58,039 --> 00:21:59,910
These are the drums
Madonna played.
361
00:21:59,910 --> 00:22:00,839
Danny played 'em.
362
00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:02,269
Mike Monahan played 'em.
363
00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:04,049
They're still here.
364
00:22:08,980 --> 00:22:10,710
She used to put her gum,
365
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,119
she used to put her
gum on this post here,
366
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,660
and there's still little
pieces of gum there.
367
00:22:16,660 --> 00:22:18,660
- You walked in
and saw everything.
368
00:22:18,660 --> 00:22:21,859
There were guitars here,
there was a bass over here,
369
00:22:21,859 --> 00:22:24,029
and a whole set of drums.
370
00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:28,930
I don't think she thought
I'm gonna be a drummer,
371
00:22:28,940 --> 00:22:31,769
but there's a guy
playing guitar,
372
00:22:31,769 --> 00:22:33,900
and here we're playin' music.
373
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:40,269
- I think drums was the
instrument that Danny first,
374
00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:43,119
you know, showed
her stuff to do.
375
00:22:44,990 --> 00:22:47,420
- As a dancer, she was always
into counting, ya know,
376
00:22:47,420 --> 00:22:49,920
everything, eight counts, and
it fit right into drumming,
377
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,460
so it was a very
smooth transition from
dancing to drumming.
378
00:22:54,460 --> 00:22:58,660
And after just goin'
through a few little,
379
00:22:58,670 --> 00:23:02,309
she picked up on it
pretty easily, ya know?
380
00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:06,039
- And then, you know,
it would just be,
381
00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:07,910
if someone's playin' drums
you'd start playin' along
382
00:23:07,910 --> 00:23:10,740
with them, and then there was
jamming that would happen.
383
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:15,450
So, she would be playing drums,
384
00:23:15,450 --> 00:23:19,150
and learning how to
play drums all day long.
385
00:23:28,259 --> 00:23:29,789
And then the feet.
386
00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:31,799
She's got the feet in
there opposite the snare,
387
00:23:31,799 --> 00:23:33,470
and away we went.
388
00:23:33,470 --> 00:23:36,240
- At the time, Dan
Gilroy and his brother, Ed,
389
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,779
were performing as a two man
musical act called Bill and Gil
390
00:23:39,781 --> 00:23:42,839
in a variety show in New
York City called Voidville.
391
00:23:42,839 --> 00:23:45,069
- Bill and Gil was a
two man performance.
392
00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:46,880
We used guitars.
393
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,309
We used percussion.
394
00:23:50,180 --> 00:23:53,009
That's how Bill and Gil started.
395
00:23:53,019 --> 00:23:55,450
Ed and I had a
performance at Voidville,
396
00:23:55,460 --> 00:23:58,230
a theater in New
City on 2nd Avenue,
397
00:23:58,230 --> 00:24:01,599
and Madonna, she came
over to the synagogue
398
00:24:01,599 --> 00:24:03,430
and came to the show.
399
00:24:04,769 --> 00:24:07,039
There's a photo of her making
herself up in the bathroom
400
00:24:07,041 --> 00:24:11,299
with that pink and black
tight leotard kind of thing,
401
00:24:11,309 --> 00:24:14,779
but that was just before we
were going to do Voidville,
402
00:24:14,779 --> 00:24:16,309
but she wasn't living
here at the time.
403
00:24:19,650 --> 00:24:20,549
- So,
404
00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:23,619
there ya go.
405
00:24:23,619 --> 00:24:26,890
- She looked fantastic
in this leotard.
406
00:24:26,890 --> 00:24:29,160
I took a bunch of pictures.
407
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,960
I think she had red shoes on,
red shoes with high heels.
408
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,390
Anyway, I took a bunch
of pictures of that.
409
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,500
In fact, I asked her to come
upstairs at the synagogue
410
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:42,069
because the space was big.
411
00:24:42,069 --> 00:24:45,269
Pictures looked
really great with
412
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:47,140
that shocking pink
right in the middle
413
00:24:47,140 --> 00:24:49,640
of this gray brown synagogue.
414
00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:57,480
- A recording
artist named Patrick Hernandez
415
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:58,980
was interested in having Madonna
416
00:24:58,990 --> 00:25:02,190
be part of his show in Paris.
417
00:25:02,190 --> 00:25:04,990
His song, Born to Be Alive,
was a tremendous hit,
418
00:25:04,990 --> 00:25:07,859
and his team offered Madonna
visions of her own stardom
419
00:25:07,859 --> 00:25:10,430
if she would come
with them to France.
420
00:25:10,430 --> 00:25:13,200
- She looked like
a perfect punk,
421
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,400
like that ideal,
right?
422
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,900
That's why they
brought her over there.
423
00:25:17,910 --> 00:25:22,579
He was gonna release Disco
Queen, and she was like,
424
00:25:22,579 --> 00:25:26,079
ya know, that thing they
were thinking about.
425
00:25:27,609 --> 00:25:31,880
- She goes to France with
the Patrick Hernandez show
426
00:25:31,890 --> 00:25:35,160
over the course of that summer.
427
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,930
- Dear Dan, I was
crazy to put four letters
428
00:25:38,930 --> 00:25:41,329
in the mail at once.
429
00:25:41,329 --> 00:25:44,029
I'm sure it makes a
person feel popular,
430
00:25:44,029 --> 00:25:47,460
but after all, you
are very lovable,
431
00:25:47,470 --> 00:25:50,339
and I'm not such
a heartless fiend,
432
00:25:50,339 --> 00:25:54,009
although I'm sure I appear
that way to many people.
433
00:25:54,009 --> 00:25:59,079
I have a lot of leisure time
now, much to my frustration.
434
00:26:00,450 --> 00:26:03,549
I can't stand the thought
of doing absolutely nothing.
435
00:26:03,549 --> 00:26:07,119
It's a nightmare
to think about it.
436
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,059
I'm so full of
anxiousness and ambition,
437
00:26:11,059 --> 00:26:15,460
and I long for some
responsibility, some hard work,
438
00:26:15,460 --> 00:26:17,960
and certainly some sweat.
439
00:26:17,970 --> 00:26:20,670
Those are the things
that make me feel real,
440
00:26:20,670 --> 00:26:22,670
besides you, of course.
441
00:26:24,170 --> 00:26:25,670
- She wanted to create stuff,
442
00:26:25,670 --> 00:26:29,339
but I'm not sure she knew
exactly what vehicle to use.
443
00:26:29,339 --> 00:26:31,869
- This is
my last stay in Paris,
444
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,549
and I wonder if the sky
will always be so gray.
445
00:26:35,549 --> 00:26:38,650
I long to put my arms
around you, and to kiss you,
446
00:26:38,650 --> 00:26:40,880
and hold you really close.
447
00:26:42,420 --> 00:26:44,319
Au revoir, mon cherie.
448
00:26:45,589 --> 00:26:48,019
- So, the Patrick
Hernandez thing, for her,
449
00:26:48,029 --> 00:26:51,259
I guess ended at the
end of the summer,
450
00:26:51,259 --> 00:26:53,329
or in the beginning of autumn,
451
00:26:53,329 --> 00:26:55,829
and so she came
back to New York.
452
00:26:58,769 --> 00:27:02,039
- I and my sort would
struggle against tradition,
453
00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:06,380
try at least to displace
old cants with new ones.
454
00:27:06,380 --> 00:27:09,279
I thought I was right about
life at various times,
455
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:11,279
but faith is difficult.
456
00:27:13,089 --> 00:27:15,190
- Dan and Madonna
resume their relationship
457
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:17,319
right where it left off.
458
00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:20,890
Soon after, they decided
to live together.
459
00:27:22,529 --> 00:27:23,700
- And she would stay over here,
460
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:25,299
they'd stay over
there, stay over here,
461
00:27:25,299 --> 00:27:27,400
and then it just kind
of gradually she wants,
462
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,900
I'd like her to stay
here, he said so.
463
00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:33,569
You know, we had 3,400
square feet of living space,
464
00:27:33,569 --> 00:27:35,299
and we only had one
kitchen and one bathroom.
465
00:27:35,309 --> 00:27:38,410
So, we had to
kinda work on that.
466
00:27:38,410 --> 00:27:40,240
Over here's the sink.
467
00:27:41,579 --> 00:27:46,319
Good old New York sink,
the original, one and only.
468
00:27:47,690 --> 00:27:49,190
Madonna made a lot of popcorn
here, I could tell ya that.
469
00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:50,819
There was always the smell
of popcorn in the house.
470
00:27:50,819 --> 00:27:52,890
Either Parmesan cheese
on it or paprika
471
00:27:52,890 --> 00:27:54,960
or there was pepper or
something like that.
472
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,529
She loved popcorn.
473
00:27:57,900 --> 00:28:01,970
This was a tough town, New
York, back in the '70s.
474
00:28:01,970 --> 00:28:04,000
She didn't have a place
to say after awhile.
475
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,730
So, it was just, seemed to be
476
00:28:06,740 --> 00:28:09,369
the right thing to do, ya know.
477
00:28:27,289 --> 00:28:28,619
- My rat's dead?
478
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:30,359
- Nah,
479
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:31,890
- Sounds very French Japanese.
480
00:28:33,230 --> 00:28:35,299
French Japanese French, eh?
481
00:28:35,299 --> 00:28:37,630
- There's one thing I don't,
482
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,140
there's one thing I,
483
00:28:39,140 --> 00:28:41,769
there's one thing
I, there's one thing
484
00:28:41,779 --> 00:28:43,349
I don't like.
- I just can't even
485
00:28:43,352 --> 00:28:45,009
quite get around to
talking about it.
486
00:28:45,009 --> 00:28:49,279
- One thing I don't really
like, there's one thing I...
487
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:51,009
- But hey, ya know,
I'll tell ya one thing.
488
00:28:51,019 --> 00:28:53,019
- Did you ever--
- You know, we're patient.
489
00:28:53,019 --> 00:28:54,519
- Patient?
- Yeah.
490
00:28:54,519 --> 00:28:57,990
Yeah, I don't know if I ever
did, I'm not sure, but...
491
00:28:57,990 --> 00:29:02,259
- Well, I don't know why a
patient could be patient.
492
00:29:02,259 --> 00:29:03,759
- Wonder.
493
00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:06,829
Well, listen, number one,
wondering is very good,
494
00:29:06,829 --> 00:29:10,000
and I'm glad you've
been wondering.
495
00:29:11,809 --> 00:29:14,480
- I remember after she
came back from Europe,
496
00:29:14,483 --> 00:29:17,609
she called me and
I went to meet her.
497
00:29:17,609 --> 00:29:22,079
They were shooting that
film A Certain Sacrifice.
498
00:29:22,079 --> 00:29:24,549
- Madonna was also
scouring the help wanted ads
499
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:28,019
in the acting and
talent trade magazines.
500
00:29:29,390 --> 00:29:33,690
And with that, she landed
a role in the student film.
501
00:29:33,690 --> 00:29:37,359
- I put an ad in
Backstage Magazine, is it?
502
00:29:39,569 --> 00:29:43,970
And I believe it said
something like I'm looking for
503
00:29:45,410 --> 00:29:49,650
a dominatrix with dark
hair who can dance and act.
504
00:29:52,210 --> 00:29:56,650
I was sort of irritated by the
kind of people I was finding,
505
00:29:56,650 --> 00:29:58,420
and then I was going
through all this stuff,
506
00:29:58,420 --> 00:30:01,960
and I was throwing
things out, and something
507
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,759
that I had missed was Madonna's
letter that she wrote to me,
508
00:30:06,759 --> 00:30:10,930
and a picture of her dropped
out of this envelope,
509
00:30:10,930 --> 00:30:13,299
and she was just
putting lipstick on,
510
00:30:13,299 --> 00:30:16,529
and it was an
incredibly sexy picture,
511
00:30:18,269 --> 00:30:22,940
and I was like, I don't really
have to look any further.
512
00:30:22,940 --> 00:30:25,509
And then of course she wrote
this three page letter,
513
00:30:25,509 --> 00:30:27,039
which is pretty amazing.
514
00:30:27,049 --> 00:30:28,049
It was kind of a
history of her life
515
00:30:28,049 --> 00:30:30,079
up to that point in time.
516
00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:33,880
At the end of the letter,
she put a little tiny thing
517
00:30:33,890 --> 00:30:35,789
in little type, is that all?
518
00:30:35,789 --> 00:30:37,589
And it was very cute.
519
00:30:40,829 --> 00:30:43,599
So, the year and month
that I started filming
520
00:30:43,599 --> 00:30:47,170
A Certain Sacrifice
was September of 1979,
521
00:30:48,269 --> 00:30:52,109
and the first scene
was the fountain scene
522
00:30:52,109 --> 00:30:56,750
where Madonna is dancing with
Dasheil, the protagonist,
523
00:30:58,380 --> 00:31:02,480
and as I was filming it, I
was filming it by myself,
524
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,349
no sound man, no camera man,
it was just me and them,
525
00:31:06,349 --> 00:31:08,980
so the three of us, and
I was sort of dancing
526
00:31:08,990 --> 00:31:11,019
in the fountain with
them trying to keep
527
00:31:11,019 --> 00:31:15,819
the water off of my camera,
but that was all improvised.
528
00:31:15,829 --> 00:31:19,160
So, basically just here's
what's gonna happen,
529
00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:20,700
and they just go for it.
530
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:24,769
That, to me, was the magic
of making this movie.
531
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,369
There was a lot of direction.
532
00:31:27,369 --> 00:31:30,000
There was, the same
time, who she was
533
00:31:30,009 --> 00:31:33,140
created partly
what the movie was.
534
00:31:33,150 --> 00:31:34,779
She was very
beautiful back then.
535
00:31:34,779 --> 00:31:36,609
I still think she's beautiful.
536
00:31:36,619 --> 00:31:38,319
- I told them that I
was in love with you.
537
00:31:39,150 --> 00:31:41,049
- And what'd they say?
538
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,390
- They were heartless and,
539
00:31:45,930 --> 00:31:50,000
and then they were really
jealous, just jealous.
540
00:31:51,099 --> 00:31:52,769
- If there were
lines to rehearse,
541
00:31:52,769 --> 00:31:54,769
she always had them rehearsed.
542
00:31:54,769 --> 00:31:59,670
She always was on time,
and even though this movie,
543
00:31:59,670 --> 00:32:03,640
and she knew it, was not
a professional production,
544
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,680
she was going to put the
best into it that she could,
545
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:08,950
and she did every time.
546
00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:19,089
- That film is just
really bizarre.
547
00:32:20,190 --> 00:32:21,460
I don't think I
would have wanted
548
00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:23,759
to have anything to
do with that movie,
549
00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:26,900
with all due respect
to the director.
550
00:32:29,970 --> 00:32:31,799
- It depends on how
you look at this movie.
551
00:32:31,809 --> 00:32:33,640
If you're looking at it
as if you're gonna look
552
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,940
at a Hollywood production,
553
00:32:35,940 --> 00:32:38,339
you are gonna be
really disappointed.
554
00:32:38,349 --> 00:32:43,150
If you look at it as street
life in New York in the '70s,
555
00:32:45,049 --> 00:32:46,950
I think it's great.
556
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:49,150
Obviously there's a lot
of amateur stuff in it,
557
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,660
but when it gets it right,
it's really, it's fun.
558
00:32:53,660 --> 00:32:56,130
- You can make the effort,
you can have the desire,
559
00:32:56,130 --> 00:32:57,859
but it's not enough.
560
00:32:59,670 --> 00:33:01,400
Need something more.
561
00:33:07,069 --> 00:33:08,539
- All the
while, Madonna kept up
562
00:33:08,539 --> 00:33:10,970
with her drumming practice,
and she was soon ready
563
00:33:10,980 --> 00:33:14,849
to take on the challenge of
learning another instrument.
564
00:33:14,849 --> 00:33:16,450
- She already could
keep the beat.
565
00:33:16,450 --> 00:33:20,990
So, naturally, she wanted
to get more into music
566
00:33:20,990 --> 00:33:25,759
than just drumming, not
that drumming isn't music.
567
00:33:25,759 --> 00:33:29,660
Well, people say, oh, you taught
Madonna how to play guitar.
568
00:33:29,660 --> 00:33:31,230
Actually, it's like
riding a bicycle.
569
00:33:31,230 --> 00:33:32,859
No one actually teaches you.
570
00:33:32,869 --> 00:33:35,039
They hold your head,
and at some point
571
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:36,970
you learn yourself, right?
572
00:33:46,349 --> 00:33:47,920
- Madonna's
friend Angie,
573
00:33:47,923 --> 00:33:50,809
who had a small role
in A Certain Sacrifice,
574
00:33:50,819 --> 00:33:53,049
was a bass guitar player,
and Madonna thought
575
00:33:53,049 --> 00:33:55,920
she should introduce her
to the Gilroys as well.
576
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,819
- Angie was kind
of tall, stately.
577
00:33:57,819 --> 00:34:01,960
She was a ballet dancer,
gorgeous big beautiful lips.
578
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,200
You'd just be quite taken
with her, and Madonna was.
579
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,800
- Dan and I were between
bands at the time,
580
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,269
and Madonna was playing,
and the three of us
581
00:34:11,269 --> 00:34:15,309
were kind of just, ya
know, playing around here,
582
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,440
and Dan and I had a
bunch of songs, too.
583
00:34:20,579 --> 00:34:22,349
And so Madonna asked
Angie to come over,
584
00:34:22,349 --> 00:34:24,679
'cause Angie had a bass.
585
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,079
So, Angie came
over, and that's how
586
00:34:27,090 --> 00:34:28,460
the first Breakfast
Club started.
587
00:34:28,460 --> 00:34:31,760
We had Madonna on
drums, Angie on bass,
588
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,500
and Dan and me out
front with the guitars.
589
00:34:42,170 --> 00:34:44,340
The material we did was
stuff that Dan and I
590
00:34:44,340 --> 00:34:46,409
had already, a lot
of it was stuff
591
00:34:46,409 --> 00:34:48,210
that was already in the mix.
592
00:34:48,210 --> 00:34:51,340
We did songs like
Curtis Come Back.
593
00:34:51,340 --> 00:34:53,170
¶ Curtis come back ¶
594
00:34:53,179 --> 00:34:57,050
¶ We want you over
on our side. ¶
595
00:34:57,050 --> 00:34:58,579
- That was a good song.
596
00:34:58,590 --> 00:35:01,219
Madonna on drums on Curtis
Come Back, Angie on bass,
597
00:35:01,219 --> 00:35:02,719
Dan and me on guitars.
598
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,250
- It kinda felt like it was
gonna be the sort of band where,
599
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:07,929
like a Fleetwood Mac
thing where you'd have
600
00:35:07,929 --> 00:35:13,000
Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie
Nicks and Christine McVie
601
00:35:14,130 --> 00:35:15,730
taking turns on vocals,
or they would harmonize.
602
00:35:15,739 --> 00:35:18,139
- We did a song called Trouble,
which she was out front,
603
00:35:18,139 --> 00:35:20,710
and the three of us wrote,
Dan, Madonna, and I.
604
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:22,510
¶ Trouble, trouble,
trouble, trouble, trouble ¶
605
00:35:22,510 --> 00:35:24,210
¶ Trouble, trouble,
trouble, trouble, trouble ¶
606
00:35:24,210 --> 00:35:25,710
¶ Trouble, trouble,
trouble, trouble, trouble ¶
607
00:35:25,710 --> 00:35:26,639
¶ Trouble, trouble ¶
608
00:35:26,650 --> 00:35:28,250
- Dan was on drums, Angie and I
609
00:35:28,250 --> 00:35:29,980
were on guitar and
bass, Madonna up front.
610
00:35:29,980 --> 00:35:31,210
¶ Trouble, trouble ¶
611
00:35:31,219 --> 00:35:33,420
¶ I've got this
trouble in my body ¶
612
00:35:33,420 --> 00:35:36,260
¶ When no love's in my heart ¶
613
00:35:36,260 --> 00:35:37,860
¶ Oh ¶
614
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,159
- Angie's days
with the band were numbered,
615
00:35:41,159 --> 00:35:42,460
and although fun at first,
616
00:35:42,460 --> 00:35:45,130
she didn't last
long in the lineup.
617
00:35:45,130 --> 00:35:46,559
- Angie was great.
618
00:35:46,570 --> 00:35:49,639
I'm a big fan of Angie's, always
have been, always will be.
619
00:35:49,639 --> 00:35:52,909
Great person, good
woman, strong,
620
00:35:52,909 --> 00:35:55,340
strong fingers playin' the bass.
621
00:35:55,340 --> 00:35:56,840
She was at a little
disadvantage, though,
622
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,170
'cause the three
of us lived here.
623
00:35:58,179 --> 00:35:59,150
- Knock knock.
624
00:35:59,150 --> 00:36:00,519
- Who's there?
625
00:36:00,521 --> 00:36:01,340
- Olive.
626
00:36:01,349 --> 00:36:02,349
- Olive who?
627
00:36:02,349 --> 00:36:04,079
- Olive you.
628
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:05,380
- I love olives.
629
00:36:05,389 --> 00:36:06,320
Got any?
630
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:07,519
- Whoa, that's shootin' ya
631
00:36:07,519 --> 00:36:10,420
in the foot.
- You gonna eat that?
632
00:36:10,420 --> 00:36:13,659
- At any given moment,
you could just say,
633
00:36:13,659 --> 00:36:16,190
I need to, can we just
work on this harmony
634
00:36:16,199 --> 00:36:17,699
for a couple of seconds?
635
00:36:17,699 --> 00:36:19,670
And then that would turn
into a half hour, an hour
636
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:21,900
of working on the material.
637
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:24,699
And could we just go
over this drum part,
638
00:36:24,699 --> 00:36:26,900
and the bass, things like that.
639
00:36:26,909 --> 00:36:28,440
But Angie didn't live here.
640
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,010
- I just feel bad.
641
00:36:35,550 --> 00:36:37,219
- I have mixed
feelings about Angie.
642
00:36:37,219 --> 00:36:38,889
I just feel like we
were giving her parts
643
00:36:38,889 --> 00:36:40,260
that were too hard,
or it could have been
644
00:36:40,264 --> 00:36:41,449
more like Rolling
Stones, you know,
645
00:36:41,449 --> 00:36:45,190
like,
646
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:46,090
- I guess.
647
00:36:47,489 --> 00:36:51,989
- Madonna didn't really wanna
work in that foursome anymore,
648
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,139
and with good reason, because
she knew it wasn't really like
649
00:36:57,139 --> 00:36:58,969
an act that would go.
650
00:37:00,369 --> 00:37:02,170
There was a little bit
of a competition there.
651
00:37:02,179 --> 00:37:05,820
One time Angie said, in
front of Madonna, about me,
652
00:37:05,824 --> 00:37:08,809
"I will have him."
653
00:37:08,820 --> 00:37:13,019
And Madonna was like, "Oh,
go ahead, I don't care."
654
00:37:13,019 --> 00:37:16,889
So, it could have been, that
could have been part of it,
655
00:37:16,889 --> 00:37:20,789
you know, who is the
audience looking at here?
656
00:37:22,699 --> 00:37:25,900
Man, they're worse than
marriages, the bands.
657
00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:29,300
Really, the breakup, 'cause
there's so many people involved.
658
00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:31,769
That was the worst.
659
00:37:31,769 --> 00:37:35,170
Anyway, that was the
worst, when Angie.
660
00:37:35,170 --> 00:37:40,239
- It just was time for a change,
and Gary became available.
661
00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:42,780
- Gary Burke
was a childhood friend
662
00:37:42,780 --> 00:37:44,550
of the Gilroys and a
former band mate as well.
663
00:37:46,190 --> 00:37:50,329
¶ Hasn't it been a long winter ¶
664
00:37:50,333 --> 00:37:53,019
- It was Dan, Ed,
myself, and Mike Monahan.
665
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:55,530
Called ourselves the Acme Band,
666
00:37:55,530 --> 00:37:58,530
which I still think
is a great band name.
667
00:37:58,530 --> 00:38:01,730
- So, we had Gary, Mike,
Dan, and me comin' over here
668
00:38:01,730 --> 00:38:04,099
and just playing
for the fun of it.
669
00:38:04,099 --> 00:38:05,929
It was just really so much fun.
670
00:38:05,940 --> 00:38:08,510
¶ Is all blue ¶
671
00:38:16,179 --> 00:38:18,849
- It wasn't like we had
Gary waiting in the wings.
672
00:38:18,849 --> 00:38:22,619
Nothing was happening for
a week or so or even more,
673
00:38:22,619 --> 00:38:27,360
but we knew Gary was around,
and we wanted to play gigs.
674
00:38:28,460 --> 00:38:31,429
So, I think we just
invited Gary over.
675
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,670
- See, I wasn't privy
to their discussions,
676
00:38:39,739 --> 00:38:41,340
but all of a sudden,
I was invited
677
00:38:41,340 --> 00:38:44,309
to be the bass player.
- One, two, three, four.
678
00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:56,920
¶ I don't have far to go now ¶
679
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,920
¶ But it certainly seems so ¶
680
00:39:00,929 --> 00:39:04,869
¶ With you at the end
of the line, dear ¶
681
00:39:04,871 --> 00:39:07,530
¶ I really do wanna go ¶
682
00:39:07,530 --> 00:39:12,599
¶ But this wind, it keeps
whippin' in on me, yeah ¶
683
00:39:15,039 --> 00:39:16,539
- So,
¶ The cold wind ¶
684
00:39:16,539 --> 00:39:18,309
- They just said like, do
you wanna join the band?
685
00:39:18,309 --> 00:39:19,239
And so I said yeah,
686
00:39:19,250 --> 00:39:20,420
okay, I'm in.
687
00:39:21,179 --> 00:39:24,320
¶ Oh yeah ¶
688
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,860
¶ Sometimes my spirit's empty ¶
689
00:39:27,864 --> 00:39:31,719
¶ And I need to fill it up ¶
690
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,460
¶ I know that there is plenty ¶
691
00:39:35,460 --> 00:39:38,699
¶ But I never get enough ¶
692
00:39:38,699 --> 00:39:39,929
- I was the new bass player.
693
00:39:39,929 --> 00:39:42,360
Angie Smit was out, I
felt bad about that.
694
00:39:42,369 --> 00:39:45,610
I had mixed feelings,
I don't like, you know,
695
00:39:45,610 --> 00:39:47,909
I don't like all that band,
696
00:39:47,909 --> 00:39:50,010
¶ That keeps whippin' ¶
697
00:39:50,010 --> 00:39:52,809
- that band stuff that goes
on when people get replaced
698
00:39:52,809 --> 00:39:55,239
and this and that, you know,
hurt feelings and all that.
699
00:39:55,250 --> 00:39:56,849
I'm not comfortable with it.
700
00:39:56,849 --> 00:39:59,519
So, I had mixed feelings,
but I kinda had a crush
701
00:39:59,519 --> 00:40:00,849
on Madonna at this point,
702
00:40:00,849 --> 00:40:02,519
even though she was
Dan's girlfriend.
703
00:40:02,519 --> 00:40:03,750
¶ Sometimes I try
to attract it ¶
704
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,489
¶ Sometimes I try
to attract it ¶
705
00:40:05,489 --> 00:40:07,489
¶ Sometimes I try
to attract it ¶
706
00:40:07,489 --> 00:40:09,960
- It was the Acme Band, so
it was the same four members
707
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,289
plus this intriguing new chick.
708
00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:13,469
Chick.
709
00:40:13,469 --> 00:40:14,940
¶ It keeps whippin' ¶
710
00:40:14,943 --> 00:40:16,460
- It was like people you
play ball with or something.
711
00:40:16,469 --> 00:40:19,170
It was like people you knew
come on over and we'll play.
712
00:40:19,170 --> 00:40:21,599
¶ Cold wind, it keeps ¶
713
00:40:21,610 --> 00:40:24,610
- We could already play
fairly well together.
714
00:40:24,610 --> 00:40:26,210
¶ Oh yeah ¶
715
00:40:26,210 --> 00:40:29,110
- And Madonna was
that new component.
716
00:40:29,119 --> 00:40:30,750
¶ It keeps whippin' ¶
717
00:40:30,750 --> 00:40:33,050
¶ It keeps whippin' in on me ¶
718
00:40:33,050 --> 00:40:33,980
- It was a good band.
719
00:40:33,989 --> 00:40:35,260
It was a good punky band.
720
00:40:35,264 --> 00:40:36,619
Madonna would come out
from behind the drums
721
00:40:36,619 --> 00:40:38,320
and do her two songs.
722
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,289
¶ Whippin', whippin' ¶
723
00:40:40,289 --> 00:40:42,519
¶ In on me ¶
- She had star quality.
724
00:40:42,530 --> 00:40:46,099
I could see that right
away, on night one.
725
00:40:47,369 --> 00:40:49,269
- While we made that
change, and brought Gary in,
726
00:40:49,269 --> 00:40:53,309
we also brought in Mike
Monahan back again.
727
00:40:53,309 --> 00:40:56,179
- And Mike, who had
been in the Acme Band,
728
00:40:56,179 --> 00:41:00,449
he was gonna come back
and be on drums again,
729
00:41:00,449 --> 00:41:03,179
and that would free Madonna
up to play the organ.
730
00:41:03,179 --> 00:41:05,250
- We got a little keyboard,
a Farfisa keyboard,
731
00:41:05,250 --> 00:41:09,090
and Madonna played the
keyboard for a while.
732
00:41:09,090 --> 00:41:10,659
- With the band
now fully fleshed out,
733
00:41:10,659 --> 00:41:12,730
it was time to start
doing some promotion
734
00:41:12,730 --> 00:41:14,800
and getting some work.
735
00:41:14,804 --> 00:41:17,019
- The photo that was
taken in the alley here
736
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:20,329
goin' up the steps, it
was just, we decided
737
00:41:20,329 --> 00:41:24,730
we were gonna take some
shots to advertise our gigs.
738
00:41:26,110 --> 00:41:29,039
It was like, I think, Gary,
he was sticking head out here,
739
00:41:29,039 --> 00:41:31,010
and Dan, Mike, Madonna.
740
00:41:32,110 --> 00:41:34,639
I was up on top, ya
know, some silly pose
741
00:41:34,650 --> 00:41:37,219
I'm not thrilled
about, and that's where
742
00:41:37,219 --> 00:41:39,119
this place was, right?
743
00:41:54,929 --> 00:41:56,429
- Madonna and
Dan managed to balance
744
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,880
their professional relationship
with their personal one,
745
00:41:59,882 --> 00:42:04,909
but Dan wasn't the only band
member with eyes for Madonna.
746
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:07,809
- Hey, Madonna, can I
talk to you for a sec?
747
00:42:07,809 --> 00:42:10,079
- Yeah,
what's up, bear?
748
00:42:14,820 --> 00:42:17,289
- Did you want something,
749
00:42:17,289 --> 00:42:21,789
but you weren't sure
it was the right thing?
750
00:42:21,789 --> 00:42:26,429
I mean, were you ever afraid
to just say what you want?
751
00:42:29,340 --> 00:42:30,239
- No.
752
00:42:33,739 --> 00:42:36,880
- So, you know
exactly what you want?
753
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:38,880
- Yes.
754
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,610
- Madonna wanted to be famous.
755
00:42:40,610 --> 00:42:42,679
That was her thing, man.
756
00:42:44,019 --> 00:42:45,550
And she didn't care if she
got through it through dance,
757
00:42:45,550 --> 00:42:46,650
through rock and roll, whatever.
758
00:42:46,650 --> 00:42:48,519
She wanted to be famous.
759
00:42:48,519 --> 00:42:52,519
- I will do whatever I
have to do to get there.
760
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:56,329
- She would be so squirrelly,
like I wanna be famous.
761
00:42:56,329 --> 00:42:57,860
She wanted to be
famous now, man.
762
00:42:57,860 --> 00:42:58,760
Yeah, now.
763
00:43:00,269 --> 00:43:02,469
- It's not funny.
764
00:43:02,469 --> 00:43:04,199
- I know, I'm sorry.
765
00:43:05,340 --> 00:43:07,139
- And she was like,
you could just see it.
766
00:43:07,139 --> 00:43:09,510
She was like, in
her body language,
767
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:12,349
it's like, ooh, when's
it gonna happen?
768
00:43:12,349 --> 00:43:13,949
That kind of thing.
769
00:43:15,250 --> 00:43:18,190
- What was it that you
were talking about wanting?
770
00:43:18,193 --> 00:43:21,409
- Nothing, I
was just asking...
771
00:43:25,159 --> 00:43:28,699
- Oh, I knew Gary and Mike
had a crush on Madonna.
772
00:43:28,702 --> 00:43:30,119
Everyone had a crush on Madonna.
773
00:43:30,130 --> 00:43:32,199
The guy upstairs, John Horne,
had a crush on Madonna.
774
00:43:32,199 --> 00:43:35,400
I'm sure Gary and Mike
had a crush on Madonna.
775
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:36,800
She's beautiful,
she's in the band,
776
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,300
you're workin'
with her every day.
777
00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:42,000
- I did tell Madonna a few
times how I felt about her.
778
00:43:42,010 --> 00:43:44,280
I was working in a bookstore.
779
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,750
I told the manager of the
bookstore that I was sick.
780
00:43:48,750 --> 00:43:50,980
I went and I took the
train and the bus.
781
00:43:52,789 --> 00:43:57,130
And I knew she was alone
at the synagogue that day.
782
00:44:00,659 --> 00:44:03,889
It's a major betrayal
type of thing, though.
783
00:44:03,900 --> 00:44:05,170
You don't do this, 'cause they
784
00:44:05,173 --> 00:44:09,960
hadn't split up yet.
785
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:11,570
- Hey, bear.
786
00:44:11,570 --> 00:44:13,599
What are you doing here?
787
00:44:14,769 --> 00:44:16,300
I've been working
on this new song.
788
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:19,380
- Wait, Madonna, I
came here because
789
00:44:21,150 --> 00:44:25,619
I just had something that I
really wanted to tell you.
790
00:44:25,619 --> 00:44:28,789
- I'm sorry, of
course, what's wrong?
791
00:44:30,619 --> 00:44:32,519
- I shouldn't be here.
792
00:44:33,389 --> 00:44:34,960
- Gary, just spit it out.
793
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,699
You're starting to freak me out.
794
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:39,659
- Okay.
795
00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:46,800
Madonna, I don't want anything
to come between me and Dan,
796
00:44:46,809 --> 00:44:48,539
but I have feelings.
797
00:44:52,139 --> 00:44:54,210
I just wanted to say it.
798
00:44:57,179 --> 00:44:58,409
This was stupid.
799
00:44:58,420 --> 00:45:00,989
I know you're with Dan, but...
800
00:45:06,429 --> 00:45:09,329
- Do you wanna
hear my song still?
801
00:45:14,369 --> 00:45:16,400
- Are you gonna say
anything about what I just--
802
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,500
- I don't know what
to say to that.
803
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:21,409
I mean, I'm flattered.
804
00:45:24,210 --> 00:45:26,309
- I think I should go.
805
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:28,440
I'm sorry, I shouldn't...
806
00:45:30,250 --> 00:45:32,019
- It kinda like shocked
her kind of thing.
807
00:45:32,019 --> 00:45:34,349
I shouldn't have done that.
808
00:45:35,590 --> 00:45:37,690
I wanted her to, I
wanted to be Chris Stein
809
00:45:37,690 --> 00:45:40,889
to her Debbie Harry,
that kind of a thing.
810
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:45,789
- She always wanted
to do something,
811
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,429
she wanted to be the
center of attention,
812
00:45:47,429 --> 00:45:49,400
so, we did a thing where
we walked around New York.
813
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,130
We dressed in white, we
walked around New York
814
00:45:51,139 --> 00:45:53,570
playing through a little
Pignose portable amp
815
00:45:53,570 --> 00:45:54,769
that I was wearing.
816
00:45:54,769 --> 00:45:56,639
We plugged into it
with a cable splitter
817
00:45:56,639 --> 00:46:00,079
so we were both playin'
out of this one amp,
818
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:03,980
and she was playin'
chords, like these chords.
819
00:46:10,219 --> 00:46:11,849
But in rhythm.
820
00:46:14,730 --> 00:46:18,300
Like those All Along
the Watchtower chords,
821
00:46:19,369 --> 00:46:21,769
but she did it, was
doing it with an open E,
822
00:46:21,769 --> 00:46:24,139
'cause she didn't do
the fingering then.
823
00:46:24,139 --> 00:46:25,710
- They would dress all in white.
824
00:46:25,713 --> 00:46:27,699
This was like during
the Breakfast Club days,
825
00:46:27,710 --> 00:46:30,280
and they would take
their Pignose amps
and go in the subway
826
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,019
and sort of busk, but
electric instead of acoustic.
827
00:46:34,023 --> 00:46:35,280
I never saw them, though.
828
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,250
They would go off, and
they would come back,
829
00:46:37,250 --> 00:46:38,750
and they were both
dressed in white
830
00:46:38,750 --> 00:46:41,349
with their Pignose
amps.
831
00:46:41,349 --> 00:46:43,849
They'd gone into the
city, gone into Manhattan,
832
00:46:43,860 --> 00:46:45,690
and just like played.
833
00:46:47,159 --> 00:46:49,889
I kind of admired them
both, 'cause I was too shy
834
00:46:49,900 --> 00:46:54,469
to do that kind of
stuff.
835
00:46:55,599 --> 00:46:57,469
- So, we'd
walk down the street
836
00:46:57,469 --> 00:46:59,070
playin' our little...
837
00:47:01,610 --> 00:47:03,639
It might have been
the other way.
838
00:47:03,639 --> 00:47:07,239
That was fun, that
was so much fun.
839
00:47:07,250 --> 00:47:08,980
- There's a song
that Madonna wrote
840
00:47:08,980 --> 00:47:11,750
called Daddy Won't
You Please Come Home,
841
00:47:11,750 --> 00:47:15,019
and it's a song that she
writes about her father,
842
00:47:15,019 --> 00:47:19,420
and it's just her on guitar
and her singing by herself,
843
00:47:19,429 --> 00:47:21,829
and it's a very tender song.
844
00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:25,130
I mean, ya know, she's
singin' from this little,
845
00:47:25,130 --> 00:47:27,260
tiny little space in
her heart probably,
846
00:47:27,269 --> 00:47:29,769
which is a very tender spot.
847
00:47:31,070 --> 00:47:35,309
¶ Oh, boy, I got
a letter today ¶
848
00:47:35,309 --> 00:47:39,679
¶ From my daddy, and
here's what he had to say ¶
849
00:47:39,679 --> 00:47:42,980
¶ Baby, won't you
please come home ¶
850
00:47:42,980 --> 00:47:48,050
¶ He said, baby won't
you please come home ¶
851
00:47:49,150 --> 00:47:51,420
- Then there's a song
called Danny's Song,
852
00:47:51,420 --> 00:47:55,360
which Madonna wrote
about Danny Gilroy.
853
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,429
It's a beautiful song all
about Dan's character,
854
00:47:59,429 --> 00:48:02,900
and what it was like
for her to be with him.
855
00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:05,929
It's a very heartfelt
song, but it's funny.
856
00:48:05,940 --> 00:48:07,139
It's hilarious, ya know, like,
857
00:48:07,139 --> 00:48:08,670
he doesn't care
too much for money.
858
00:48:08,670 --> 00:48:10,670
He leaves it there on the floor.
859
00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:15,679
¶ Daniel likes to run
when the sky is blue ¶
860
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:22,550
¶ And Daniel goes to the rooftop
when the day is through ¶
861
00:48:24,389 --> 00:48:27,820
¶ Well, he's watching
the fleas in the alley ¶
862
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:31,500
¶ When the phone
rings on the floor ¶
863
00:48:31,500 --> 00:48:36,570
¶ But he doesn't pick it up
'cause he knows who it's for ¶
864
00:48:39,369 --> 00:48:41,869
- I knew the exact moment when
I thought she'd be famous.
865
00:48:41,869 --> 00:48:45,099
She was playing guitar,
strummin' really big and strong,
866
00:48:45,110 --> 00:48:48,179
and she had really short
hair then, combed back.
867
00:48:48,179 --> 00:48:50,110
She looked like Bowie
and Elvis to me,
868
00:48:50,119 --> 00:48:52,519
strummin' away, and
singin', and here I was
869
00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:54,349
playin' the drums
thinkin', hold on.
870
00:48:54,349 --> 00:48:56,650
I think I'm lookin' at
somethin' that's gonna,
871
00:48:56,659 --> 00:48:58,059
something's gonna happen here.
872
00:49:01,860 --> 00:49:05,530
- The next song is a
song which Danny wrote
873
00:49:08,170 --> 00:49:09,639
for Madonna to sing.
874
00:49:09,639 --> 00:49:11,039
It's called Moving Along.
875
00:49:11,039 --> 00:49:12,469
That's the song
that we used to do
876
00:49:12,469 --> 00:49:15,099
before we went into Trouble,
'cause this a slower.
877
00:49:17,780 --> 00:49:21,219
¶ Movin' along ¶
878
00:49:21,222 --> 00:49:23,780
¶ So move it along ¶
879
00:49:23,780 --> 00:49:27,619
¶ I cannot be late tonight ¶
880
00:49:27,619 --> 00:49:32,420
¶ But you believe in
how my feet can fly ¶
881
00:49:32,420 --> 00:49:36,289
¶ I just got to be on time ¶
882
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:41,070
- The next song here is
a song called Simon Says.
883
00:49:41,070 --> 00:49:43,300
This is a great track.
884
00:49:43,300 --> 00:49:47,000
Danny put together a track
and played it backwards.
885
00:49:47,010 --> 00:49:52,079
So it's like
886
00:49:54,250 --> 00:49:56,750
and Madonna sang
it going forward.
887
00:49:59,489 --> 00:50:02,889
¶ Says Simon here
come shine my shoes ¶
888
00:50:02,889 --> 00:50:06,860
¶ And you cry while you do
it 'cause you got the blues ¶
889
00:50:06,860 --> 00:50:10,659
¶ You say that your
heart's going to break ¶
890
00:50:10,659 --> 00:50:13,760
¶ Maybe soon you will
see your mistake ¶
891
00:50:13,769 --> 00:50:15,440
- And it's the first
time that Madonna
892
00:50:15,443 --> 00:50:18,329
heard herself on
headphones on this one,
893
00:50:18,340 --> 00:50:21,269
and she has one of
those moments, ya know,
894
00:50:21,269 --> 00:50:23,869
where it's like
everything just hits it,
895
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,280
and there's some kind
of a vibration that's
comin' outta ya.
896
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:27,550
Ya don't know where
it's comin' from.
897
00:50:27,550 --> 00:50:29,480
This is what she
kinda felt, I think,
898
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,010
when she had these
headphones on,
899
00:50:31,019 --> 00:50:34,219
'cause shes' goin', wow, it
sounds really great in here.
900
00:50:34,219 --> 00:50:35,449
¶ You said ¶
901
00:50:35,449 --> 00:50:38,449
¶ Feel so good now ¶
902
00:50:43,099 --> 00:50:45,000
- Madonna had started
writing songs.
903
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,929
So, once Gary and
Mike were in there,
904
00:50:47,929 --> 00:50:50,059
she had a song called
905
00:50:50,070 --> 00:50:52,900
¶ Again and again,
over and over ¶
906
00:50:52,909 --> 00:50:55,880
¶ Again and again,
over and over ¶
907
00:50:55,882 --> 00:50:59,239
¶ Again and again,
over and over ¶
908
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,710
¶ Again and again,
over and over ¶
909
00:51:02,710 --> 00:51:04,980
¶ Ah ah ah ¶
910
00:51:06,119 --> 00:51:08,349
- Ya know, she was
just so cute, ya know?
911
00:51:08,349 --> 00:51:10,079
You could just imagine.
912
00:51:10,090 --> 00:51:12,019
¶ Again and again ¶
913
00:51:12,019 --> 00:51:14,119
And it was a showstopper.
914
00:51:14,130 --> 00:51:16,230
- We played one particular gig.
915
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:18,260
It was kind of a pop-up place.
916
00:51:18,260 --> 00:51:21,400
It was called Bo's
Space and it was
917
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,630
in the West 20s in Manhattan.
918
00:51:23,639 --> 00:51:25,309
And we played a gig that night,
919
00:51:25,311 --> 00:51:27,730
and the crowd really enjoyed it,
920
00:51:27,739 --> 00:51:30,679
but there was a difference
between when Madonna came out
921
00:51:30,679 --> 00:51:32,210
and did her two numbers.
922
00:51:32,210 --> 00:51:35,309
The crowd really went wild
for those two numbers.
923
00:51:35,309 --> 00:51:37,610
So, I guess that got
into Madonna's head like,
924
00:51:37,619 --> 00:51:40,820
hey, maybe I should sing more.
925
00:51:40,820 --> 00:51:43,989
- At the Bo's Space thing,
I think that that was maybe
926
00:51:43,989 --> 00:51:47,329
the first time where
she, I'm not sure,
927
00:51:48,590 --> 00:51:51,019
but felt like, whoa,
there's somethin' happening
928
00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:54,869
with me and my microphone
that isn't happening
929
00:51:54,869 --> 00:51:58,769
when I'm behind a keyboard
with someone else singing.
930
00:52:01,110 --> 00:52:05,150
And that night in bed,
it was, I felt a distance
931
00:52:06,179 --> 00:52:08,380
that I hadn't felt before.
932
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:14,889
She was thinkin' about maybe
she didn't wanna be in a band,
933
00:52:15,989 --> 00:52:18,719
or she wanted to front the band.
934
00:52:20,130 --> 00:52:25,170
- Before you knew it, Madonna
and Mike came to me and said,
935
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:27,929
we're thinking Madonna should,
936
00:52:27,929 --> 00:52:31,329
we think Madonna
should do more numbers.
937
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:34,329
We think we should flip it.
938
00:52:34,340 --> 00:52:36,739
We think Madonna should
do eight out of the 10,
939
00:52:36,739 --> 00:52:38,369
and the Gilroys should do two.
940
00:52:38,380 --> 00:52:39,409
- Hey, guys.
941
00:52:39,409 --> 00:52:40,980
Do you have a sec?
942
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,150
We have something that we
would like to present to you.
943
00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:47,050
- Okay.
944
00:52:48,449 --> 00:52:51,349
- We were thinking that I
could be the lead singer,
945
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,800
that I could be up
front most of the time.
946
00:52:54,802 --> 00:52:57,260
- This band has no lead singer,
947
00:52:57,260 --> 00:53:00,159
and why would we make
you the lead singer?
948
00:53:00,170 --> 00:53:03,239
- We think that this is
going to benefit the band.
949
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,840
- They said, we think
what we need to do
950
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,710
is have Madonna be in
front doin' her songs,
951
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:13,480
and us be in the backup band.
952
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:14,349
- No.
953
00:53:15,250 --> 00:53:17,619
It would change the whole...
954
00:53:19,019 --> 00:53:20,519
I don't know.
955
00:53:20,519 --> 00:53:22,489
Dan, what do you think?
956
00:53:23,889 --> 00:53:25,559
- I don't know.
957
00:53:25,559 --> 00:53:27,260
I mean, these are our songs.
958
00:53:27,260 --> 00:53:28,760
- Exactly.
959
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:30,260
We're the songwriters.
960
00:53:30,260 --> 00:53:31,230
We're the main parts.
961
00:53:31,230 --> 00:53:32,400
- I've written songs.
962
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:33,670
- You wrote two songs, Madonna.
963
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:35,699
You can't do a gig
with two songs.
964
00:53:35,699 --> 00:53:37,969
- 'Cause that was
sensitive, ya know?
965
00:53:37,969 --> 00:53:40,670
And the Gilroys weren't
buyin' it at all.
966
00:53:40,670 --> 00:53:42,900
- We weren't into that.
967
00:53:42,909 --> 00:53:46,139
I didn't wanna be a side person.
968
00:53:46,139 --> 00:53:48,239
- I kinda went along with
it, probably once again
969
00:53:48,250 --> 00:53:50,019
'cause I had a stupid
crush on Madonna.
970
00:53:50,019 --> 00:53:52,690
It was just like a pipe dream.
971
00:53:52,693 --> 00:53:54,050
- She wanted to be out there.
972
00:53:54,050 --> 00:53:56,150
She wanted her songs to be sung.
973
00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:59,119
- Both sides went to
their separate corners,
974
00:53:59,119 --> 00:54:02,789
and we decided to request 50/50.
975
00:54:04,199 --> 00:54:05,570
- What does that mean?
976
00:54:05,572 --> 00:54:08,360
- I mean like 50% of
the time I'm up front,
977
00:54:08,369 --> 00:54:12,010
and 50% of the time one
of you are up front.
978
00:54:12,014 --> 00:54:15,500
- No, that's not
what this band is.
979
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:16,980
- They said nope.
980
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,010
So that was surprising.
981
00:54:20,010 --> 00:54:22,840
I woulda loved it if they
had done that compromise.
982
00:54:22,849 --> 00:54:25,719
I think everyone
would have been happy.
983
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:26,619
- Okay.
984
00:54:28,849 --> 00:54:33,690
Okay, well, then I think that
we will start our own band,
985
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:40,260
and you can be up front all
you would like in your band.
986
00:54:40,929 --> 00:54:43,260
Come on guys, let's go.
987
00:54:43,269 --> 00:54:46,510
- Mike and Gary thought
that the best way to go
988
00:54:46,510 --> 00:54:48,079
would be go with Madonna.
989
00:54:48,081 --> 00:54:52,909
- So, it hurt a lot, but me,
Mike, and Madonna split off.
990
00:54:58,949 --> 00:55:00,320
- To Mike and Gary
it was obvious
991
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,489
that this is an act
that could happen.
992
00:55:03,489 --> 00:55:05,260
To Ed and I it was like this is
993
00:55:05,260 --> 00:55:07,889
this young upstart in the band.
994
00:55:09,289 --> 00:55:11,519
- Dan, it's gonna be fine.
995
00:55:13,900 --> 00:55:18,369
- For Dan and Madonna, it
must have been quiet something
996
00:55:18,369 --> 00:55:20,500
because not only was
the band breakin' up,
997
00:55:20,510 --> 00:55:25,579
but this was also the breakup
of their being together.
998
00:55:26,110 --> 00:55:26,909
- It's over.
999
00:55:26,909 --> 00:55:28,840
You got what you wanted.
1000
00:55:30,619 --> 00:55:32,019
- What I wanted?
1001
00:55:33,219 --> 00:55:34,449
What the hell?
1002
00:55:35,619 --> 00:55:37,150
Dan, you're my brother, man.
1003
00:55:37,159 --> 00:55:38,730
You think I wanted to see
you unhappy or something?
1004
00:55:38,733 --> 00:55:40,289
- No, Ed, I know.
1005
00:55:40,289 --> 00:55:44,690
You liked it better when
it was just us living here.
1006
00:55:47,769 --> 00:55:48,940
There you go.
1007
00:55:50,699 --> 00:55:53,099
Everything's back to normal.
1008
00:55:57,179 --> 00:56:00,079
- Once the music
breakup happened,
1009
00:56:01,679 --> 00:56:04,449
she was livin' at the
synagogue with me,
1010
00:56:04,449 --> 00:56:07,949
and once the band
broke up, it kinda,
1011
00:56:07,949 --> 00:56:10,320
it was all a big thing, ya know?
1012
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,750
It was all one big thing,
and the band breakup
1013
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:17,300
signaled the beginning of
everything breakin' up, yeah.
1014
00:56:23,570 --> 00:56:27,309
I was being brave,
is what I was doing.
1015
00:56:27,309 --> 00:56:29,110
See, because it was
obvious that Madonna
1016
00:56:29,110 --> 00:56:31,010
wasn't here permanently.
1017
00:56:31,010 --> 00:56:32,409
That was from the word go.
1018
00:56:32,409 --> 00:56:34,940
You could see she was kind of,
1019
00:56:34,949 --> 00:56:37,820
and you know you grab her for
a little while is what it was.
1020
00:56:37,820 --> 00:56:40,250
- So, Madonna, Mike,
and I went off.
1021
00:56:40,250 --> 00:56:42,719
We had to find a place
to rehearse and stuff.
1022
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:44,619
So, we ended up at
this place called
1023
00:56:44,619 --> 00:56:46,849
The Music Building
on 38th Street,
1024
00:56:46,860 --> 00:56:49,360
a little below Port
Authority in Times Square.
1025
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:50,329
Aye.
1026
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:53,230
- Let me see.
1027
00:56:54,329 --> 00:56:55,900
- The Music
Building was a place
1028
00:56:55,900 --> 00:56:57,769
where musicians
could lease out rooms
1029
00:56:57,769 --> 00:57:01,940
to hold their equipment
and to rehearse in.
1030
00:57:01,940 --> 00:57:05,940
- Well, The last time
I was here was 1982.
1031
00:57:05,940 --> 00:57:09,639
So, it's really, really
going down memory lane.
1032
00:57:09,650 --> 00:57:11,849
It's kinda freakin' me out.
1033
00:57:11,849 --> 00:57:14,119
- Madonna, Gary,
and Mike couldn't afford
1034
00:57:14,119 --> 00:57:15,590
to rent a room on their own,
1035
00:57:15,590 --> 00:57:17,960
so they shared it
with another band.
1036
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,030
- But oh, this looks
like the same horn
1037
00:57:20,030 --> 00:57:22,960
that Madonna was on a lot.
1038
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:28,030
Always hustling, always
hustling.
1039
00:57:29,269 --> 00:57:31,900
We called ourselves
Madonna In The Sky.
1040
00:57:31,900 --> 00:57:34,329
There's no mention on the
internet of Madonna In The Sky,
1041
00:57:34,340 --> 00:57:36,670
but that was our
short-lived threesome,
1042
00:57:36,679 --> 00:57:39,579
Mike Monahan,
myself, and Madonna.
1043
00:57:40,949 --> 00:57:42,579
It was the first time she'd
ever been the front person
1044
00:57:42,579 --> 00:57:45,179
of a band, the
total front person.
1045
00:57:45,179 --> 00:57:48,519
She was writing her little
songs, playing rhythm guitar.
1046
00:57:48,519 --> 00:57:51,650
I was on bass and
Mike was on the drums.
1047
00:57:51,659 --> 00:57:53,760
Songs like Safe Neighborhood.
1048
00:57:55,289 --> 00:57:57,119
¶ I live at the
top of the hill ¶
1049
00:57:57,130 --> 00:57:59,429
¶ No one keeps me
here against my will ¶
1050
00:57:59,429 --> 00:58:01,659
¶ I don't need no
safe neighborhood ¶
1051
00:58:01,670 --> 00:58:04,639
¶ I got to feel good
my own way, yeah ¶
1052
00:58:04,639 --> 00:58:07,809
- Yep, Madonna was
pumpin' out songs.
1053
00:58:09,269 --> 00:58:11,800
I was doin' songs, too, but I
didn't feel they fit the band.
1054
00:58:11,809 --> 00:58:14,409
I had my own singer
songwriter thing goin' on.
1055
00:58:14,409 --> 00:58:18,309
I was always real super
shy about presenting.
1056
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,690
They didn't seem to fit,
I was scared of rejection.
1057
00:58:21,690 --> 00:58:26,760
¶ Still life, 'til the
breeze blows it all around ¶
1058
00:58:27,789 --> 00:58:31,590
¶ Still listening for a sign ¶
1059
00:58:35,530 --> 00:58:37,659
- Did you write that?
1060
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:38,570
- Yeah.
1061
00:58:40,269 --> 00:58:43,639
Just a little somethin'
I've been workin' on.
1062
00:58:43,639 --> 00:58:46,840
- Once in awhile Madonna
would overhear a song,
1063
00:58:46,849 --> 00:58:48,780
or I would leave a tape around.
1064
00:58:48,780 --> 00:58:50,250
- I like it.
1065
00:58:50,250 --> 00:58:51,920
Keep working on it.
1066
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:03,030
¶ Still life, at least until
the breeze blows it all around ¶
1067
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:08,699
¶ Still listening for a sound ¶
1068
00:59:19,510 --> 00:59:21,409
- Come on, guys, come on.
1069
00:59:21,409 --> 00:59:23,380
- Here we go.
- Come on.
1070
00:59:24,780 --> 00:59:27,010
- She would dress us.
1071
00:59:27,019 --> 00:59:29,050
We would go to
Saint Mark's Place,
1072
00:59:29,050 --> 00:59:32,380
which was like the
Bohemian center
1073
00:59:32,389 --> 00:59:34,489
of New York City at that time.
- Come on.
1074
00:59:34,489 --> 00:59:35,719
Come on, now.
1075
00:59:37,300 --> 00:59:38,730
- And she'd buy jackets.
1076
00:59:38,730 --> 00:59:41,159
Buy purple pants, you're
gonna wear these purple pants.
1077
00:59:41,170 --> 00:59:43,139
You're gonna wear
this red jacket.
1078
00:59:43,141 --> 00:59:45,929
Here's a peach colored shirt
with a checkerboard pattern,
1079
00:59:45,940 --> 00:59:48,670
then she'd do the same for Mike.
1080
00:59:49,710 --> 00:59:52,579
So, she was in
charge of that, too.
1081
01:00:14,730 --> 01:00:16,130
- Wow, that's...
1082
01:00:18,739 --> 01:00:19,639
What?
1083
01:00:22,269 --> 01:00:23,599
- I think I was in on
1084
01:00:23,610 --> 01:00:25,579
her very first
choreography of the band.
1085
01:00:25,579 --> 01:00:28,349
She said, "Let's do
this song on our knees."
1086
01:00:28,349 --> 01:00:30,519
And Mike was like,
Mike was on the drums,
1087
01:00:30,519 --> 01:00:31,449
so, he didn't have to.
1088
01:00:31,449 --> 01:00:33,980
He was like, "Don't do that.
1089
01:00:33,989 --> 01:00:35,619
"What are you doing?"
1090
01:00:35,619 --> 01:00:39,260
So, we're like just doin' this
song, crawling on our knees
1091
01:00:39,260 --> 01:00:40,889
while I'm playin' bass
and she's playing guitar.
1092
01:00:40,889 --> 01:00:43,190
I was all in, like, okay.
1093
01:00:43,190 --> 01:00:44,119
You think that works?
1094
01:00:44,130 --> 01:00:46,300
Yeah, it's artistic, ya know?
1095
01:00:46,300 --> 01:00:49,139
¶ Bam ba boom bomm ¶
1096
01:00:49,141 --> 01:00:52,059
Poor Mike, he had a
full time job as a,
1097
01:00:52,070 --> 01:00:54,039
it was Metropolitan
Life Insurance.
1098
01:00:54,039 --> 01:00:57,369
So, he'd come from
a long day of work,
1099
01:00:57,380 --> 01:01:01,349
come to The Music
Building to rehearse,
1100
01:01:01,349 --> 01:01:05,050
and sometimes the beat would
slow down or something,
1101
01:01:05,050 --> 01:01:07,420
and Madonna would go, "Mike!"
1102
01:01:07,420 --> 01:01:09,090
Ya know, and he'd like.
1103
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,260
And then one day he came
in, one hot August day,
1104
01:01:13,260 --> 01:01:16,559
he came in and said, "I'm done."
1105
01:01:16,559 --> 01:01:18,460
- What are you doing?
1106
01:01:18,460 --> 01:01:19,690
- I'm lookin' for
my other stick.
1107
01:01:19,699 --> 01:01:20,929
What does it look
like I'm doin'?
1108
01:01:20,929 --> 01:01:22,199
- You just need to
start being on time.
1109
01:01:22,199 --> 01:01:23,530
This is getting
ridiculous, Mike.
1110
01:01:23,539 --> 01:01:25,739
It's becoming an every
night thing with you.
1111
01:01:28,869 --> 01:01:30,349
- Screw this.
1112
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:31,840
I'm sorry if I'm not keepin'
up with your standards,
1113
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,570
but I have a job, I got bills
1114
01:01:34,579 --> 01:01:37,250
and you just don't get it.
- Mike.
1115
01:01:37,250 --> 01:01:38,119
Mike, stop.
1116
01:01:38,119 --> 01:01:40,190
Look, you're just tired.
1117
01:01:40,190 --> 01:01:41,659
- Yeah, I am.
1118
01:01:41,661 --> 01:01:43,179
I'm really frickin' tired.
1119
01:01:43,190 --> 01:01:44,989
I'm tired of this whole thing.
1120
01:01:44,989 --> 01:01:49,289
I'm tired of this band, and
just, it's just everything.
1121
01:01:49,289 --> 01:01:52,789
I just can't, I
can't do it anymore.
1122
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:54,199
I'm sorry, bear.
1123
01:01:55,170 --> 01:01:56,070
I can't.
1124
01:01:59,099 --> 01:02:00,070
- So, he quit.
1125
01:02:00,070 --> 01:02:01,940
Mike left the band.
1126
01:02:01,940 --> 01:02:03,210
So, then there was
a period of time
1127
01:02:03,210 --> 01:02:05,780
where it was just
Madonna and me,
1128
01:02:05,780 --> 01:02:08,880
and she was always on the
horn tryin' to get guitarists,
1129
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,079
tryin' to hire people,
find a new drummer.
1130
01:02:11,079 --> 01:02:12,710
- Back when
Madonna was in college,
1131
01:02:12,719 --> 01:02:16,019
she had met a drummer
named Stephen Bray.
1132
01:02:16,019 --> 01:02:17,619
She got in touch with
him, and he decided
1133
01:02:17,619 --> 01:02:20,449
to come to New York
to join the band.
1134
01:02:20,460 --> 01:02:23,090
- Steve knew Madonna
from Michigan,
1135
01:02:23,090 --> 01:02:27,489
and he came to town, and that
changed everything for them.
1136
01:02:27,500 --> 01:02:28,599
- He's a drummer.
1137
01:02:28,599 --> 01:02:30,400
He's a musician.
1138
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,900
He's gonna come to New York.
1139
01:02:32,900 --> 01:02:34,530
Okay, good.
1140
01:02:34,539 --> 01:02:38,110
So, Stephen Bray
came to New York.
1141
01:02:46,579 --> 01:02:48,510
- A lot of that
CBGB's thing back then
1142
01:02:48,519 --> 01:02:50,550
was anyone can do this.
1143
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:52,460
We just get up and let's
do it, but Steve was,
1144
01:02:52,460 --> 01:02:55,130
Steve had chops, serious chops.
1145
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,860
- I remember the
first day he came.
1146
01:02:58,860 --> 01:03:01,760
He's kind of amazed,
as many people are,
1147
01:03:01,769 --> 01:03:05,710
but you could tell
he had to like, wow.
1148
01:03:05,713 --> 01:03:09,469
I thought Detroit was
big, that kind of a thing.
1149
01:03:09,469 --> 01:03:12,239
He got into New York right away,
1150
01:03:12,239 --> 01:03:15,610
and then he sort of took
over the role of arranger,
1151
01:03:15,610 --> 01:03:19,179
you know, the leader
of the group, sort of.
1152
01:03:19,179 --> 01:03:20,650
- And
now, this new lineup
1153
01:03:20,650 --> 01:03:23,019
needed to find
themselves a name.
1154
01:03:23,019 --> 01:03:25,719
- How about we just
call it Madonna?
1155
01:03:25,719 --> 01:03:27,250
- Yeah.
1156
01:03:27,260 --> 01:03:28,159
I love it.
1157
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:30,789
- I wanted to call it Madonna
1158
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,829
'cause that made
perfect sense to me.
1159
01:03:32,829 --> 01:03:34,000
- I hate that idea.
1160
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:34,969
- Why not?
1161
01:03:34,969 --> 01:03:37,639
It's like rock and roll, man.
1162
01:03:37,639 --> 01:03:38,869
You wanna stir things up.
1163
01:03:38,869 --> 01:03:40,170
That's what we want.
1164
01:03:40,170 --> 01:03:42,940
- I'm not going to be in
a band called Madonna.
1165
01:03:42,940 --> 01:03:44,369
- That'll piss people off,
1166
01:03:44,380 --> 01:03:46,980
people who believe in
Jesus's mother or whatever.
1167
01:03:46,980 --> 01:03:48,949
It'll piss them off.
1168
01:03:48,949 --> 01:03:50,980
How dare she call
herself Madonna?
1169
01:03:50,980 --> 01:03:54,880
And that was her real name,
that's the funny part.
1170
01:03:54,889 --> 01:03:58,119
- How about we call
ourselves No Name.
1171
01:04:00,119 --> 01:04:01,420
How about that?
1172
01:04:03,030 --> 01:04:06,000
- Wait, what's No Name
spelled backwards?
1173
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:06,900
Emanon?
1174
01:04:09,130 --> 01:04:11,260
How about Emmy for short?
1175
01:04:11,269 --> 01:04:14,199
It was actually a nickname
I had growing up, too.
1176
01:04:14,210 --> 01:04:17,349
- I didn't wanna
have that name, Emmy.
1177
01:04:18,409 --> 01:04:19,309
- Not bad.
1178
01:04:20,780 --> 01:04:23,309
I'll go for that one.
1179
01:04:23,309 --> 01:04:24,210
Emmy.
1180
01:04:25,179 --> 01:04:27,449
- Okay, so, we'll call it Emmy.
1181
01:04:27,449 --> 01:04:29,179
What a name.
1182
01:04:29,190 --> 01:04:32,019
What a horrible name for
a rock group.
1183
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:41,199
- The Music Building
1184
01:04:41,199 --> 01:04:43,599
was not designated
for residents,
1185
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:46,969
but with nowhere else to
live, eating, sleeping,
1186
01:04:46,969 --> 01:04:51,969
and even bathing in the building
was Madonna's only option.
1187
01:05:00,289 --> 01:05:02,889
- We kinda lived at The
Music Building for a while.
1188
01:05:02,889 --> 01:05:04,320
Ya know, that's how bad it was.
1189
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:06,789
It was really the salad days.
1190
01:05:13,130 --> 01:05:14,699
We were living in the studio.
1191
01:05:14,699 --> 01:05:16,130
We didn't have an apartment.
1192
01:05:16,130 --> 01:05:20,230
I had one, but I got kicked
out of it or whatever.
1193
01:05:22,610 --> 01:05:24,380
- But even this
little bit of security
1194
01:05:24,380 --> 01:05:27,849
would soon be pulled
out from under them.
1195
01:05:29,510 --> 01:05:31,940
- All of a sudden, we
were out of the room.
1196
01:05:31,949 --> 01:05:35,820
We were told the other
group took over the lease.
1197
01:05:35,820 --> 01:05:37,389
You're out, you're out.
1198
01:05:37,389 --> 01:05:38,719
It's like, what?
1199
01:05:38,719 --> 01:05:39,849
- We're just being
kicked out of the room.
1200
01:05:39,860 --> 01:05:40,760
That's all I know.
1201
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:41,730
- They can't do that.
1202
01:05:41,730 --> 01:05:43,599
We have a lease, don't we?
1203
01:05:43,601 --> 01:05:46,019
- I don't know how it
happened, even to this day.
1204
01:05:46,030 --> 01:05:48,130
- Brian Symms
was a guitar player
1205
01:05:48,130 --> 01:05:51,070
that was renting a space in
another room in the building,
1206
01:05:51,070 --> 01:05:53,570
and was not currently
committed to any band,
1207
01:05:53,570 --> 01:05:55,340
which was perfect timing.
1208
01:05:55,340 --> 01:05:57,809
- Let's go talk
to him right now.
1209
01:05:57,809 --> 01:06:01,409
- We needed a room, Brian
was free, he had the talent.
1210
01:06:01,409 --> 01:06:04,909
So, that's how we
formed that Emmy group.
1211
01:06:08,949 --> 01:06:10,320
¶ Emmy ¶
¶ Emmy ¶
1212
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:11,690
¶ She'd submit the call ¶
1213
01:06:11,690 --> 01:06:13,159
¶ It's so hot behind a wall ¶
1214
01:06:13,159 --> 01:06:14,530
¶ But she keeps it in a ball ¶
1215
01:06:14,530 --> 01:06:16,030
¶ Emmy ¶
¶ Emmy ¶
1216
01:06:16,030 --> 01:06:17,530
¶ You'll never break inside ¶
1217
01:06:17,530 --> 01:06:19,929
¶ But if you wanna try, you
won't make it out alive ¶
1218
01:06:19,929 --> 01:06:21,400
¶ Emmy ¶
¶ Emmy ¶
1219
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:24,369
¶ She'll slay you with a
glance, put you in a trance ¶
1220
01:06:24,369 --> 01:06:26,239
¶ Are you sure you
wanna dance with Emmy ¶
1221
01:06:26,239 --> 01:06:27,340
¶ Emmy ¶
1222
01:06:27,340 --> 01:06:28,809
¶ She's gonna steal your heart ¶
1223
01:06:28,809 --> 01:06:31,480
¶ And she wants to know
that you want hers ¶
1224
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,949
- She was churnin'
out the songs,
1225
01:06:33,949 --> 01:06:37,420
but Steve would arrange
them, so she'd come up
1226
01:06:37,420 --> 01:06:39,119
with the chords and the words.
1227
01:06:39,119 --> 01:06:41,489
Steve would write a rhythm.
1228
01:06:41,489 --> 01:06:43,760
I would come up
with the bass part
1229
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:48,030
or Steve would suggest a
bass part, same with Brian.
1230
01:06:48,030 --> 01:06:49,460
He would come up with
his own guitar part,
1231
01:06:49,460 --> 01:06:50,289
- I gotcha.
- or Steve would say
1232
01:06:50,289 --> 01:06:51,690
try this and that.
1233
01:06:51,699 --> 01:06:53,199
So, he was sorta the arranger
1234
01:06:53,199 --> 01:06:54,670
- I got it.
- at that point.
1235
01:06:54,670 --> 01:06:57,739
We were gettin' gigs around.
1236
01:06:57,739 --> 01:07:00,980
We had a New Year's Eve
gig once near Times Square.
1237
01:07:00,983 --> 01:07:02,139
That was crazy.
1238
01:07:02,139 --> 01:07:03,670
¶ But if you wanna try ¶
1239
01:07:03,670 --> 01:07:05,440
- With each gig,
the band was getting better
1240
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:08,010
and they were working hard
to put themselves on the map.
1241
01:07:08,010 --> 01:07:09,139
¶ Put you in a trance ¶
1242
01:07:09,150 --> 01:07:10,420
¶ Are you sure you wanna dance ¶
1243
01:07:10,420 --> 01:07:12,090
- She was on the
phone every day.
1244
01:07:12,092 --> 01:07:13,780
She was the most aggressive,
1245
01:07:13,789 --> 01:07:17,059
you know other people
just sorta like, you know,
1246
01:07:17,059 --> 01:07:18,559
they try to move
their careers along,
1247
01:07:18,559 --> 01:07:21,900
but she was super aggressive
about it on a daily basis.
1248
01:07:21,902 --> 01:07:24,119
Always on the phone
trying to get a gig,
1249
01:07:24,130 --> 01:07:27,070
trying to get a
manager, every day.
1250
01:07:27,070 --> 01:07:29,340
Madonna was like having
a tiger by the tail.
1251
01:07:29,342 --> 01:07:32,670
She was only like 21
or 22 at the time.
1252
01:07:33,940 --> 01:07:35,210
¶ But don't expect
to stack it right ¶
1253
01:07:35,210 --> 01:07:37,039
¶ You'll never
ever see her cry ¶
1254
01:07:37,039 --> 01:07:39,070
- Hey, hey sorry.
1255
01:07:39,079 --> 01:07:43,650
You work with that music
woman, the August Management.
1256
01:07:44,449 --> 01:07:46,079
- August Artists.
1257
01:07:46,079 --> 01:07:47,579
I'm her partner, actually.
1258
01:07:47,590 --> 01:07:51,329
- Oh, could you please
give her this tape?
1259
01:07:51,331 --> 01:07:53,389
I'd really love for her
to listen to our band.
1260
01:07:53,389 --> 01:07:55,090
- She's
really busy right now.
1261
01:07:55,090 --> 01:07:57,389
I'm not sure she's
gonna have time,
1262
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,869
but I'll try to
give it a listen.
1263
01:07:59,871 --> 01:08:01,530
- Well, we're really good.
1264
01:08:01,530 --> 01:08:03,960
Our name is Emmy, and I
think that if you just
1265
01:08:03,969 --> 01:08:07,139
listen to the tape
you would agree.
1266
01:08:07,139 --> 01:08:11,039
¶ She's a little heartbreaker ¶
1267
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:33,060
- Yeah, I can do it.
1268
01:08:33,060 --> 01:08:34,529
- Mm.
1269
01:08:34,529 --> 01:08:36,430
- I stuck my finger in it,
1270
01:08:36,430 --> 01:08:39,699
and I got burned.
1271
01:08:39,699 --> 01:08:41,100
- Oh, yeah.
1272
01:08:41,109 --> 01:08:43,939
- Did you ever get burned?
1273
01:08:43,939 --> 01:08:47,739
- Not yet, no, but I bet
you it'll feel familiar.
1274
01:08:51,079 --> 01:08:53,109
- That's a lie.
1275
01:08:53,119 --> 01:08:55,220
You've gotten burned.
1276
01:08:55,220 --> 01:08:56,819
Even Joan of Arc
could tell you that.
1277
01:08:57,989 --> 01:09:00,520
She knows a singed
body when she sees one.
1278
01:09:00,529 --> 01:09:03,529
- Oh, yeah, I've
seen the pictures.
1279
01:09:05,229 --> 01:09:07,859
- Madonna found
a temporary place to stay,
1280
01:09:07,869 --> 01:09:12,939
and was trying to find work,
but things were looking bleak.
1281
01:09:14,010 --> 01:09:15,779
- There was a very,
very cold night.
1282
01:09:15,782 --> 01:09:18,140
She was renting a room
just around the corner
1283
01:09:18,140 --> 01:09:20,210
from The Music Building.
1284
01:09:20,210 --> 01:09:21,779
It was like two degrees out,
1285
01:09:21,779 --> 01:09:24,750
it was like the coldest
day of the winter.
1286
01:09:24,750 --> 01:09:25,649
- Hello?
1287
01:09:26,619 --> 01:09:28,449
- And the heat in that building
1288
01:09:28,449 --> 01:09:30,779
she was renting a room
in, it wasn't working.
1289
01:09:30,789 --> 01:09:33,560
So, I went over there, and she
was like in a fetal position.
1290
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:34,460
- Hey.
1291
01:09:36,090 --> 01:09:38,220
- Just really freezing.
1292
01:09:38,229 --> 01:09:42,369
"I can't stand this."
1293
01:09:43,569 --> 01:09:45,539
- What am I doing here?
1294
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:48,970
I'm not getting anywhere.
1295
01:09:49,909 --> 01:09:51,539
What am I gonna do?
1296
01:09:52,409 --> 01:09:53,840
- She was so depressed, though.
1297
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,539
When she was like, (whimpers)
1298
01:09:56,550 --> 01:09:58,520
she was ready to
go back to Detroit.
1299
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:00,550
She really was, she
was ready to bag
1300
01:10:00,550 --> 01:10:03,720
the whole Music Building,
the whole music thing.
1301
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:08,289
She was so close to really
bailing on the whole thing.
1302
01:10:11,460 --> 01:10:14,289
- I think maybe I
should call Dan.
1303
01:10:18,369 --> 01:10:20,300
- "Go out to the synagogue?
1304
01:10:20,300 --> 01:10:22,500
"You think that he,"
'cause they'd been split up
1305
01:10:22,510 --> 01:10:24,739
for X amount of months.
1306
01:10:24,739 --> 01:10:25,970
- It was cold.
1307
01:10:27,210 --> 01:10:30,779
I didn't think she felt
well and she asked me
1308
01:10:30,779 --> 01:10:34,020
if she could come over
to the synagogue again.
1309
01:10:34,020 --> 01:10:36,220
This is after our
breakup and of course
1310
01:10:36,220 --> 01:10:37,890
I said, yeah, okay.
1311
01:10:39,689 --> 01:10:41,789
- He was probably heartbroken
when they split up
1312
01:10:41,789 --> 01:10:45,359
a little bit, but he
didn't hold a grudge.
1313
01:10:46,500 --> 01:10:48,699
- Madonna
went back to Corona,
1314
01:10:48,699 --> 01:10:52,300
back to the synagogue,
back to Dan.
1315
01:10:53,939 --> 01:10:56,210
- So she came over
for maybe two days.
1316
01:10:56,210 --> 01:11:00,010
We went running in the
park as we used to do.
1317
01:11:05,149 --> 01:11:08,119
She said, "I feel like
I'm going backwards."
1318
01:11:08,119 --> 01:11:10,590
Meaning being here in Corona,
1319
01:11:14,029 --> 01:11:18,100
but it was a nice
little, I don't wanna say
1320
01:11:18,100 --> 01:11:22,670
it was like the baby bird
returning to the nest again.
1321
01:11:25,140 --> 01:11:28,739
It was a fun couple
of days, but again,
1322
01:11:28,739 --> 01:11:31,039
it brought back that, it
was like a breakup again.
1323
01:11:31,039 --> 01:11:33,970
How many of these can, ya know?
1324
01:11:33,979 --> 01:11:36,810
It was a little
like that for me.
1325
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:39,390
So, off she went.
1326
01:11:43,819 --> 01:11:48,060
- I think they had a nice
healing kind of a thing.
1327
01:11:50,729 --> 01:11:54,270
Dan probably helped her stay
in the game a little bit,
1328
01:11:54,270 --> 01:11:57,369
and I helped to the
extent that I could.
1329
01:11:57,369 --> 01:11:58,840
I didn't want her to
go back to Detroit,
1330
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:02,539
but I could tell she was,
it was not happening.
1331
01:12:02,539 --> 01:12:05,069
She wanted it to happen now.
1332
01:12:05,079 --> 01:12:06,279
- Adam, Adam.
1333
01:12:09,310 --> 01:12:11,779
- Listen, you can't keep
following me around like this.
1334
01:12:11,779 --> 01:12:13,979
You're hounding me.
- No, I'm not following you.
1335
01:12:13,979 --> 01:12:15,409
Did you give it to her?
1336
01:12:15,420 --> 01:12:16,520
- Yeah, I gave her your tape.
1337
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:18,449
She's very busy,
like I told you.
1338
01:12:18,460 --> 01:12:20,430
Eventually, maybe
she'll have a chance,
1339
01:12:20,432 --> 01:12:22,420
but not right now.
- No.
1340
01:12:22,430 --> 01:12:24,159
Not eventually.
1341
01:12:24,159 --> 01:12:26,960
- I think Madonna knew
that there was this woman
1342
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:30,399
who had a studio
on the third floor.
1343
01:12:30,399 --> 01:12:33,470
So, I think she wanted
her to come see our gig
1344
01:12:33,470 --> 01:12:35,670
and maybe sign us up.
1345
01:12:35,670 --> 01:12:39,810
- In February of 1981, Adam's
partner, Camille Barbone,
1346
01:12:39,810 --> 01:12:42,340
was finally convinced to check
out the band's performance
1347
01:12:42,350 --> 01:12:44,720
at Max's Kansas City.
1348
01:12:47,489 --> 01:12:50,489
- I had worked very
hard
1349
01:12:50,489 --> 01:12:52,560
to get us a gig at
Max's Kansas City.
1350
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:57,260
That was a hard place to
get a gig at in 1980, '81,
1351
01:12:57,260 --> 01:13:01,130
but I also sensed
something and I was saying,
1352
01:13:01,130 --> 01:13:04,100
Madonna, I don't wanna
rehearse for a month
1353
01:13:04,100 --> 01:13:05,699
and do this Max's
Kansas City gig
1354
01:13:05,699 --> 01:13:08,529
if we're just gonna
split up the next day,
1355
01:13:08,539 --> 01:13:10,270
I remember saying.
1356
01:13:10,270 --> 01:13:11,800
No, no, no.
1357
01:13:11,810 --> 01:13:15,710
- So, I went to see Emmy
with Steve Bray and Gary.
1358
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:19,310
It was interesting,
because you could see
1359
01:13:19,319 --> 01:13:21,119
this gradual shift in direction,
1360
01:13:21,119 --> 01:13:23,649
that it was becoming
more about her.
1361
01:13:34,100 --> 01:13:35,470
- We did the gig at Max's.
1362
01:13:35,470 --> 01:13:37,399
She was great, she
was like crazy.
1363
01:13:37,399 --> 01:13:41,140
She was walkin' out on
the tables, ya know?
1364
01:13:41,140 --> 01:13:42,770
Madonna was like in
good form that night.
1365
01:13:42,770 --> 01:13:47,470
She was like really, had a
good rapport with the band.
1366
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:50,109
She was just like
really doing good.
1367
01:13:50,109 --> 01:13:51,710
She was good that night.
1368
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,250
¶ She's a little love taker ¶
1369
01:13:54,250 --> 01:13:57,220
¶ She's a little body shaker ¶
1370
01:13:57,220 --> 01:13:59,989
¶ She's a little heartbreaker ¶
1371
01:13:59,989 --> 01:14:04,329
¶ Troublemaker,
troublemaker, troublemaker ¶
1372
01:14:04,329 --> 01:14:06,829
¶ Love taker ¶
1373
01:14:06,829 --> 01:14:09,800
¶ Body shaker ¶
1374
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:11,770
¶ Heartbreaker ¶
1375
01:14:11,770 --> 01:14:14,140
¶ Troublemaker,
troublemaker, troublemaker ¶
1376
01:14:14,140 --> 01:14:15,270
- She blew Camille away.
1377
01:14:15,270 --> 01:14:17,300
I knew Camille was there.
1378
01:14:17,310 --> 01:14:18,340
I was all for it, too.
1379
01:14:18,340 --> 01:14:19,439
¶ She keeps it in a fog. ¶
1380
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:21,010
¶ Emmy ¶
¶ Emmy ¶
1381
01:14:21,010 --> 01:14:22,079
¶ You'll never break inside ¶
1382
01:14:22,079 --> 01:14:23,210
¶ But if you wanna try ¶
1383
01:14:23,210 --> 01:14:24,810
¶ You won't make it out alive ¶
- But
1384
01:14:24,819 --> 01:14:26,390
Camille didn't want the band.
1385
01:14:26,393 --> 01:14:27,779
¶ She'll slay you
with a glance ¶
1386
01:14:27,789 --> 01:14:29,090
¶ She'll put you in a trance ¶
1387
01:14:29,090 --> 01:14:30,560
¶ Are you sure you wanna dance ¶
1388
01:14:30,563 --> 01:14:33,750
- So, the next morning, I'm
just like in our rehearsal room.
1389
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:36,430
These two guys come in
and say, "Did you hear?"
1390
01:14:36,430 --> 01:14:38,600
¶ She wants to know
that you want hers ¶
1391
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:41,670
- Your band is breaking up.
1392
01:14:41,670 --> 01:14:44,100
¶ She wants to know
that you want hers ¶
1393
01:14:44,100 --> 01:14:46,369
- So I never even got
it from the horse's mouth.
1394
01:14:51,539 --> 01:14:53,939
- Madonna later
told me that Camille
1395
01:14:53,939 --> 01:14:56,909
had offered to manage
her that night.
1396
01:14:56,909 --> 01:15:00,479
- I tried to play it cool
like, yeah, whatever, ya know?
1397
01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:02,180
I felt bad about it.
1398
01:15:03,449 --> 01:15:05,250
I had laid it out there.
1399
01:15:05,260 --> 01:15:06,760
I don't wanna rehearse
for the next month
1400
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:09,029
if we're just gonna
split the next day.
1401
01:15:09,029 --> 01:15:12,630
When that happens, it
kind of pisses you off.
1402
01:15:12,630 --> 01:15:13,529
- Hey.
1403
01:15:15,229 --> 01:15:16,100
Madonna!
1404
01:15:17,369 --> 01:15:19,340
So, that's it?
1405
01:15:19,340 --> 01:15:21,810
You did exactly what you
said you wouldn't do.
1406
01:15:21,810 --> 01:15:23,609
Oh no, I'm not
gonna drop the band.
1407
01:15:23,609 --> 01:15:25,909
Well, this could be
good for all of us.
1408
01:15:25,909 --> 01:15:27,510
No, no, Madonna.
1409
01:15:27,510 --> 01:15:28,640
You can't just ignore me, okay?
1410
01:15:28,649 --> 01:15:29,550
This is wrong.
1411
01:15:29,550 --> 01:15:30,449
- Gary!
1412
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:38,149
What do you want me to do?
1413
01:15:45,500 --> 01:15:46,930
- She just turned
and walked away.
1414
01:15:46,930 --> 01:15:50,000
I made her very uncomfortable.
1415
01:15:52,500 --> 01:15:53,800
- This isn't over, Madonna.
1416
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:57,640
You can't just do
whatever you want.
1417
01:15:57,640 --> 01:15:59,239
- You could tell she was
embarrassed about it,
1418
01:15:59,239 --> 01:16:01,939
but she had to do
what she had to do.
1419
01:16:01,949 --> 01:16:03,920
- Please open the door.
1420
01:16:07,279 --> 01:16:08,949
- It was very
embarrassing, actually,
1421
01:16:08,949 --> 01:16:10,819
when I think back on it.
1422
01:16:10,819 --> 01:16:15,819
It was like, let it go,
Gary, let it go. (laughs)
1423
01:16:41,449 --> 01:16:42,819
- It was this guy, you know?
1424
01:16:42,819 --> 01:16:43,649
- Yeah.
1425
01:16:43,649 --> 01:16:44,850
- I said, you do it.
1426
01:16:44,859 --> 01:16:45,829
I'm gonna be sick.
1427
01:16:45,832 --> 01:16:46,989
So, I walked out.
1428
01:16:46,989 --> 01:16:48,390
- Yeah.
1429
01:16:48,390 --> 01:16:51,189
- Well, the next
day I came back.
1430
01:16:53,899 --> 01:16:54,970
- You threw up
1431
01:16:54,970 --> 01:16:56,239
on the guy.
- No.
1432
01:16:56,242 --> 01:16:59,100
No, but he had saved
one part of the rat
1433
01:16:59,100 --> 01:17:00,800
for me to scalp.
1434
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:02,100
Guess what it was?
1435
01:17:02,109 --> 01:17:03,109
- I can guess.
1436
01:17:03,109 --> 01:17:05,210
- They were all bloaty.
1437
01:17:05,210 --> 01:17:06,279
It was icky.
1438
01:17:07,710 --> 01:17:10,479
I don't mean to be talkin'
about these things,
1439
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:12,510
but it's reality, ya know?
1440
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:15,250
Reality's gotta be talked about.
1441
01:17:16,689 --> 01:17:19,720
- In March of
1981, Camille and Adam
1442
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:23,659
signed Madonna to their
management company.
1443
01:17:23,659 --> 01:17:25,329
Madonna immediately
began working
1444
01:17:25,329 --> 01:17:27,800
on new music, ready
to present herself
1445
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,869
for the first time
as a solo artist.
1446
01:17:32,369 --> 01:17:34,239
Using her industry contacts,
1447
01:17:34,239 --> 01:17:37,239
Camille began showcasing
Madonna in nightclubs
1448
01:17:37,239 --> 01:17:39,310
around New York and Long Island.
1449
01:17:39,310 --> 01:17:42,380
One of those clubs
was called U.S. Blues.
1450
01:17:42,380 --> 01:17:44,850
Camille hired
photographer George DuBose
1451
01:17:44,850 --> 01:17:46,850
to capture this
performance on film.
1452
01:17:46,850 --> 01:17:49,180
Her look was becoming
more stylized
1453
01:17:49,189 --> 01:17:53,430
as she developed her new
singular onstage persona.
1454
01:17:55,029 --> 01:17:57,329
Camille had also
arranged for Madonna
1455
01:17:57,329 --> 01:18:00,069
to record a demo tape
of some new songs.
1456
01:18:00,073 --> 01:18:02,760
The tape included songs
like Love On The Run,
1457
01:18:02,770 --> 01:18:05,500
High Society, and Get Up.
1458
01:18:05,500 --> 01:18:07,500
¶ Get up ¶
1459
01:18:07,500 --> 01:18:09,470
¶ Get up ¶
1460
01:18:09,470 --> 01:18:11,439
¶ Get up ¶
1461
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:13,510
¶ Get up ¶
1462
01:18:13,510 --> 01:18:15,479
¶ Get up ¶
1463
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:17,380
¶ Get up ¶
1464
01:18:17,380 --> 01:18:19,380
¶ Get up ¶
1465
01:18:25,890 --> 01:18:28,090
- Madonna was
flourishing as an artist,
1466
01:18:28,090 --> 01:18:30,189
but the relationship
between she and Camille
1467
01:18:30,189 --> 01:18:33,729
took a bad turn, and Madonna
no longer wanted Camille
1468
01:18:33,729 --> 01:18:36,029
to be her manager.
1469
01:18:36,029 --> 01:18:37,359
- And the rest of the
breakups that happened,
1470
01:18:37,369 --> 01:18:38,600
she had to go off on her own.
1471
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:39,600
That was just the way it was.
1472
01:18:42,609 --> 01:18:44,340
- No
longer having a band,
1473
01:18:44,340 --> 01:18:46,539
and no longer having
management support,
1474
01:18:46,539 --> 01:18:49,010
all that Madonna
had was a demo tape
1475
01:18:49,010 --> 01:18:51,239
that she recorded
with Stephen Bray,
1476
01:18:51,250 --> 01:18:54,590
which included a song
called Everybody.
1477
01:18:55,649 --> 01:18:57,350
Madonna began bringing
that demo tape
1478
01:18:57,350 --> 01:18:59,479
around to the dance
clubs in New York
1479
01:18:59,489 --> 01:19:01,619
hoping to get a
deejay to play it,
1480
01:19:01,630 --> 01:19:06,699
places like Danceteria and
deejays like Freddy Bastone.
1481
01:19:07,359 --> 01:19:08,890
- I encountered Madonna
1482
01:19:08,899 --> 01:19:11,729
21st Street, Danceteria.
1483
01:19:11,739 --> 01:19:14,810
She was trying to
get a record deal.
1484
01:19:17,779 --> 01:19:21,149
The deejays that were playing
on the weekend were myself,
1485
01:19:21,149 --> 01:19:23,520
Mark Kamins, and it
didn't even have to do
1486
01:19:23,524 --> 01:19:24,939
with the weekends.
1487
01:19:24,949 --> 01:19:26,449
She was coming, you know,
seven nights a week,
1488
01:19:26,449 --> 01:19:27,619
Danceteria was open.
1489
01:19:27,619 --> 01:19:30,220
She was there seven
nights a week,
1490
01:19:30,220 --> 01:19:33,859
and she was peddling
her wares, so to speak.
1491
01:19:37,189 --> 01:19:39,189
I wasn't interested.
1492
01:19:39,199 --> 01:19:41,600
I know I look
foolish saying that,
1493
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:43,569
but it's the truth,
and I'm not gonna say
1494
01:19:43,569 --> 01:19:46,909
I thought she was gonna be
a genius, 'cause I didn't.
1495
01:19:46,912 --> 01:19:48,970
It wasn't my cup of tea.
1496
01:19:48,970 --> 01:19:52,470
I'd be stupid saying
this now, but I probably,
1497
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:56,680
if it came by me again,
knowing what I know now,
1498
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,279
I'd sign it, but
if I didn't know,
1499
01:19:59,279 --> 01:20:02,109
I'd probably still say no way.
1500
01:20:02,119 --> 01:20:05,020
This is just like
pop dance stuff.
1501
01:20:07,789 --> 01:20:10,460
The main deejay who took an
interest was Mark Kamins.
1502
01:20:10,460 --> 01:20:11,760
I didn't take an interest.
1503
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:16,130
He was one of the most
groundbreaking deejays,
1504
01:20:16,130 --> 01:20:18,630
and he had the ears
and the foresight
1505
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,069
to know what was gonna
happen with that artist.
1506
01:20:21,069 --> 01:20:25,140
He brought it to his company
that he was working with
1507
01:20:25,140 --> 01:20:27,369
at the time, Sire Records.
1508
01:20:28,510 --> 01:20:29,779
- At the
helm of Sire Records
1509
01:20:29,779 --> 01:20:32,579
was a man named Seymour Stein.
1510
01:20:32,579 --> 01:20:34,409
- Mark kind of had
a deal with Sire
1511
01:20:34,420 --> 01:20:38,659
and Seymour that he would
bring in records or acts
1512
01:20:39,619 --> 01:20:41,850
and give it to them first.
1513
01:20:43,229 --> 01:20:46,000
So, when he got Madonna,
he brought it to Seymour,
1514
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:49,340
and Seymour took
Madonna on right away.
1515
01:20:54,569 --> 01:20:56,340
- To Stephen
Bray's disappointment,
1516
01:20:56,340 --> 01:20:58,210
the record deal wasn't
likely to happen
1517
01:20:58,210 --> 01:21:00,239
unless Mark Kamins produced,
1518
01:21:00,239 --> 01:21:04,609
even though Stephen had
produced the demo recording.
1519
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:10,789
- They signed her
as quickly
1520
01:21:10,789 --> 01:21:12,689
as you can sign an artist.
1521
01:21:12,689 --> 01:21:15,760
I know it was not, they didn't
think about it too much.
1522
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:17,989
It was like they got
Mark into the studio,
1523
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:20,170
and they did Everybody.
1524
01:21:20,172 --> 01:21:22,560
Actually, I was
invited to the studio.
1525
01:21:22,569 --> 01:21:24,640
I believe it was
Blank Tape Studio.
1526
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:26,140
I never went.
1527
01:21:26,140 --> 01:21:29,510
I wish I did so I can say I was there!
1528
01:21:29,510 --> 01:21:31,109
But no, I never was there.
1529
01:21:31,109 --> 01:21:34,310
It was because he said,
"I'm doin' Madonna.
1530
01:21:34,310 --> 01:21:36,880
"You know, that girl that
keeps on bothering us?
1531
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:38,579
"We're signing her."
1532
01:21:38,579 --> 01:21:42,250
So, like a fool
throughout this story,
1533
01:21:42,250 --> 01:21:45,819
Freddy the fool for
Madonna, I did not go,
1534
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:49,529
because I did not
believe in the project.
1535
01:21:49,529 --> 01:21:52,729
- In October of
1982, Sire Records released
1536
01:21:52,729 --> 01:21:55,729
Madonna's very first
single, Everybody.
1537
01:21:55,729 --> 01:21:57,460
- Sire Records, you
gotta hand it to them.
1538
01:21:57,470 --> 01:21:58,869
They went after it.
1539
01:21:58,869 --> 01:22:00,500
- When Everybody
came out on Sire,
1540
01:22:00,500 --> 01:22:03,430
Steve was really pissed
off 'cause Mark Kamins
1541
01:22:03,439 --> 01:22:07,479
basically did the exact
arrangement of the demo.
1542
01:22:08,409 --> 01:22:11,279
- I think Mark's production,
1543
01:22:11,279 --> 01:22:15,180
and I know what Stephen's
work is, and it's very good.
1544
01:22:15,189 --> 01:22:16,890
Stephen is a great writer,
1545
01:22:18,859 --> 01:22:23,659
but Mark's deejaying
capabilities and
deejaying wizardry,
1546
01:22:26,060 --> 01:22:28,529
it was about creating chaos,
1547
01:22:28,529 --> 01:22:30,560
and creating a whole vibe,
1548
01:22:30,569 --> 01:22:32,340
and that's what he
did with Madonna.
1549
01:22:32,340 --> 01:22:35,840
It was like a funky
house New York sound.
1550
01:22:37,270 --> 01:22:39,069
Not taking anything
away from Stephen.
1551
01:22:39,079 --> 01:22:40,909
He's a great producer,
great writer,
1552
01:22:40,909 --> 01:22:42,479
but I don't think Stephen
could have done that
1553
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:45,279
for that first record, and
they might have been lost
1554
01:22:45,279 --> 01:22:47,880
if they didn't go
that direction.
1555
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:49,409
Who knows?
1556
01:22:49,420 --> 01:22:50,890
- By November,
the song entered
1557
01:22:50,890 --> 01:22:53,729
Billboard's Top 100
on the dance charts,
1558
01:22:53,731 --> 01:22:56,149
but Madonna knew that she
still needed to push hard
1559
01:22:56,159 --> 01:22:59,699
to get the song played anywhere
and everywhere possible.
1560
01:22:59,699 --> 01:23:01,029
- Oh, no, here she comes.
1561
01:23:01,029 --> 01:23:03,529
Lock the door!
1562
01:23:03,529 --> 01:23:07,000
So, my friend Michael
would lock the door,
1563
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:08,930
'cause I just did not
wanna be bothered.
1564
01:23:08,939 --> 01:23:11,510
I didn't want her comin'
up to the deejay booth
1565
01:23:11,510 --> 01:23:14,680
and standing there
until I played it,
1566
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:16,680
because that's
what she would do.
1567
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:20,220
She would stand there,
give me the cassette,
1568
01:23:20,220 --> 01:23:21,649
and if she gave me the cassette,
1569
01:23:21,649 --> 01:23:23,819
she wouldn't let me hold it.
1570
01:23:23,819 --> 01:23:28,220
Ya know, having somebody
standing there is just,
1571
01:23:28,229 --> 01:23:29,729
it gets to you.
1572
01:23:29,729 --> 01:23:32,829
You just want, you're like,
what do you want, already?
1573
01:23:32,829 --> 01:23:35,260
So, you're either gonna play
it, or you're gonna tell her
1574
01:23:35,270 --> 01:23:37,340
I'm not gonna play it,
and I would tell her
1575
01:23:37,342 --> 01:23:38,859
I'm not gonna play it.
1576
01:23:38,869 --> 01:23:41,640
- Mark Kamins
was on Madonna's side,
1577
01:23:41,640 --> 01:23:45,909
and was also very invested in
having this record succeed.
1578
01:23:45,909 --> 01:23:48,909
- Because she knew Mark was in
her corner at that time, too.
1579
01:23:48,909 --> 01:23:53,109
There was the pre-Mark,
and then the after Mark.
1580
01:23:53,119 --> 01:23:55,649
So, the pre-Mark, I
didn't really care.
1581
01:23:55,649 --> 01:23:58,949
But then after Mark,
I was like, oh no,
1582
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:03,060
I gotta start playin'
this now. (grumbles)
1583
01:24:03,060 --> 01:24:05,029
That kind of music never got me,
1584
01:24:05,029 --> 01:24:08,199
that single solo
girl pop star thing.
1585
01:24:10,229 --> 01:24:13,270
So, shows you what I know.
1586
01:24:13,270 --> 01:24:15,539
- With the help
of deejays, record promoters,
1587
01:24:15,539 --> 01:24:17,409
and perhaps the
biggest promoter,
1588
01:24:17,409 --> 01:24:19,779
Madonna herself, the
song quickly climbed
1589
01:24:19,779 --> 01:24:23,449
as high as number three
on the dance charts.
1590
01:24:23,449 --> 01:24:25,279
- It was a 24 hour shift.
1591
01:24:25,279 --> 01:24:28,350
I was just really, like
eight cups of coffee,
1592
01:24:28,350 --> 01:24:31,250
feeling like chills
and runny, and
1593
01:24:32,420 --> 01:24:34,520
¶ Everybody ¶
1594
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:36,550
¶ Uh, uh, eh, eh, eh ¶
1595
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:37,689
¶ Everybody ¶
1596
01:24:37,689 --> 01:24:39,390
came on the radio,
1597
01:24:41,329 --> 01:24:44,159
although it was kinda
fun, there's Madonna,
1598
01:24:44,170 --> 01:24:46,439
it made me think,
man, oh what happened?
1599
01:24:46,439 --> 01:24:47,340
Ooh.
1600
01:24:48,270 --> 01:24:50,369
It was depressing.
1601
01:24:50,369 --> 01:24:53,210
- And now, No Entiendes
is proud to present
1602
01:24:53,210 --> 01:24:57,880
the world premiere of Sire
Recording artist Madonna.
1603
01:24:59,720 --> 01:25:02,250
Now get up and do your thing!
1604
01:25:04,989 --> 01:25:07,060
- Madonna
put together a track
act performance,
1605
01:25:07,060 --> 01:25:09,029
and took it on the
road starting out
1606
01:25:09,029 --> 01:25:11,199
at Danceteria.
- Go on, girl.
1607
01:25:13,329 --> 01:25:15,359
- Woo!
1608
01:25:18,770 --> 01:25:22,340
¶ Everybody come
on, dance and sing ¶
1609
01:25:22,340 --> 01:25:26,180
¶ Everybody get up
and do your thing ¶
1610
01:25:26,180 --> 01:25:30,180
¶ Everybody come
on, dance and sing ¶
1611
01:25:30,180 --> 01:25:34,050
¶ Everybody get up
and do your thing ¶
1612
01:25:34,050 --> 01:25:36,550
- It wasn't a huge hit,
Everybody, but it was a hit
1613
01:25:36,550 --> 01:25:41,119
in urban areas, in all the
major cities in The States.
1614
01:25:42,489 --> 01:25:46,260
It was a good dance hit,
it wasn't a pop hit.
1615
01:25:49,529 --> 01:25:52,229
- It was enough
of a hit that Sire Records
1616
01:25:52,239 --> 01:25:54,210
gave Madonna another
single release,
1617
01:25:54,212 --> 01:25:57,329
and then finally a
full first album.
1618
01:25:57,340 --> 01:26:00,109
- I went to see her, and
she had a track act going.
1619
01:26:00,109 --> 01:26:03,180
She had herself and
another female dancer
1620
01:26:03,180 --> 01:26:07,350
and two male dancers, and
I was really impressed.
1621
01:26:08,289 --> 01:26:10,689
She'd really gotten it together.
1622
01:26:10,689 --> 01:26:14,060
She saw me in the audience,
and she smiled at me,
1623
01:26:14,060 --> 01:26:16,430
kind of like cranked
it up a little bit
1624
01:26:16,430 --> 01:26:18,930
seeing that I was there.
1625
01:26:18,930 --> 01:26:22,569
And for some reason,
I didn't go backstage.
1626
01:26:24,329 --> 01:26:27,130
At that point, I think I
was a little intimidated.
1627
01:26:27,140 --> 01:26:31,239
To this day, I regret
that I didn't go back
1628
01:26:31,239 --> 01:26:34,140
and stay and talk
to her after that
1629
01:26:34,140 --> 01:26:37,470
'cause that was the
last time I was anywhere
1630
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:41,319
within 10 feet of her, with
100 feet of her, ya know?
1631
01:26:41,319 --> 01:26:42,949
- The release
of Madonna's first album
1632
01:26:42,949 --> 01:26:45,479
coincided with MTV
Music Television
1633
01:26:45,489 --> 01:26:48,560
taking over TV sets
all over the world.
1634
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:52,430
Music videos like Burning Up,
Lucky Star, and Borderline
1635
01:26:52,430 --> 01:26:55,430
were making Madonna
a household name.
1636
01:26:55,430 --> 01:26:56,960
- Ooh, it happened so fast.
1637
01:26:56,970 --> 01:26:59,270
After Everybody and
Physical Attraction stuff,
1638
01:26:59,270 --> 01:27:01,439
those were like club hits.
1639
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:05,340
Borderline was an MTV
video in heavy rotation,
1640
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:11,609
and it was on all over
the radio, ya know,
1641
01:27:11,619 --> 01:27:14,449
that whole Reggie Lucas
produced first album,
1642
01:27:14,449 --> 01:27:17,579
that was the eponymous album
just called Madonna, right?
1643
01:27:17,590 --> 01:27:19,460
And she had her
whole image together,
1644
01:27:19,460 --> 01:27:24,529
the East Village Bohemian
thing, but she made it her own.
1645
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:28,800
The bow and the hair
and the rubber bracelets
1646
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:32,069
and the BOY TOY buckle
and the whole thing.
1647
01:27:32,069 --> 01:27:34,270
She'd really branded herself.
1648
01:27:34,270 --> 01:27:37,569
That's how smart
she is, ya know?
1649
01:27:37,569 --> 01:27:42,439
It was a different route,
and it was a fresher route
1650
01:27:42,449 --> 01:27:45,250
that she took, and so
I think that aided,
1651
01:27:45,250 --> 01:27:49,149
and then the perfect
storm of MTV and Madonna.
1652
01:27:50,449 --> 01:27:53,890
The camera loves her,
as opposed to me.
1653
01:27:53,890 --> 01:27:57,489
The camera hates
me, loves Madonna.
1654
01:27:57,489 --> 01:27:59,260
And the camera loved her.
1655
01:27:59,260 --> 01:28:01,590
I mean, she looked good
in those early MTV videos.
1656
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:03,130
So, like, bam!
1657
01:28:03,130 --> 01:28:05,260
Rocket to stardom there.
1658
01:28:05,270 --> 01:28:07,100
She was a video star.
1659
01:28:08,569 --> 01:28:12,710
¶ Video killed the
radio star ¶
1660
01:28:12,710 --> 01:28:15,880
- For the very
first MTV Video Awards Show,
1661
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:18,350
rather than performing
one of her current hits,
1662
01:28:18,350 --> 01:28:20,520
Madonna shocked viewers
with an introduction
1663
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:24,189
to the title track from her yet
to be released second album,
1664
01:28:24,189 --> 01:28:25,819
Like A Virgin.
1665
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:36,100
In November of 1984, Like
A Virgin was released,
1666
01:28:36,100 --> 01:28:39,770
giving Madonna her
first number one single.
1667
01:28:40,970 --> 01:28:45,340
- Usually, second albums
are cursed, ya know?
1668
01:28:45,340 --> 01:28:47,909
It's like that second
album, oh my God.
1669
01:28:47,909 --> 01:28:50,079
The second year on a
football player's career.
1670
01:28:50,079 --> 01:28:51,710
It is always weird,
the second year,
1671
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:54,289
but her second album was mega.
1672
01:28:57,449 --> 01:29:01,220
I mean, I had to play it at
the Palladium, Like A Virgin,
1673
01:29:01,220 --> 01:29:04,489
I had to play it
three times a night.
1674
01:29:04,489 --> 01:29:06,720
"Can you play Madonna?"
1675
01:29:06,729 --> 01:29:08,199
- Madonna
and Stephen Bray
1676
01:29:08,199 --> 01:29:10,670
remained on good terms,
and she brought him
1677
01:29:10,670 --> 01:29:13,369
into the songwriting mix
of the Like A Virgin album,
1678
01:29:13,369 --> 01:29:17,140
which went on to sell
over 20 million copies.
1679
01:29:17,140 --> 01:29:20,380
- Steve saw that, ya know,
I'm gonna stay with this path.
1680
01:29:20,380 --> 01:29:24,350
Even though he was pissed
off that Mark Kamins
1681
01:29:24,350 --> 01:29:27,649
stole his arrangement,
he didn't let it
1682
01:29:29,149 --> 01:29:31,079
blow up their relationship.
1683
01:29:31,090 --> 01:29:33,819
So, that was smart
of him.
1684
01:29:35,329 --> 01:29:36,899
- In April 1985,
1685
01:29:36,902 --> 01:29:39,619
Madonna began her
first major tour,
1686
01:29:39,630 --> 01:29:42,430
performing songs from
her first two albums.
1687
01:29:42,430 --> 01:29:44,159
At this point, she
was selling records
1688
01:29:44,170 --> 01:29:47,539
at a rate of over
75,000 per day,
1689
01:29:47,539 --> 01:29:49,369
and the tour was
selling out as quickly
1690
01:29:49,369 --> 01:29:51,170
as tickets went on sale.
1691
01:29:53,109 --> 01:29:54,579
- I knew she was gonna make it,
1692
01:29:54,579 --> 01:29:57,520
but I didn't know she was gonna
make it that big that fast.
1693
01:29:57,523 --> 01:30:00,779
So, it did blow my mind,
and then as time went on,
1694
01:30:00,779 --> 01:30:02,979
she kept on staying
at that level of fame,
1695
01:30:02,989 --> 01:30:05,390
or rising to a
higher level of fame.
1696
01:30:05,390 --> 01:30:08,789
¶ Marilyn to Madonna ¶
1697
01:30:08,789 --> 01:30:11,619
It's like you're going,
I played with that chick.
1698
01:30:11,630 --> 01:30:12,600
It's weird.
1699
01:30:13,699 --> 01:30:15,829
It's pretty mind blowing.
1700
01:30:16,899 --> 01:30:18,369
- She
landed a small role
1701
01:30:18,369 --> 01:30:20,800
in the film Vision Quest,
and then a major role
1702
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:23,470
in the film Desperately
Seeking Susan.
1703
01:30:23,470 --> 01:30:24,899
She was now well on her way
1704
01:30:24,909 --> 01:30:27,810
to becoming a
worldwide superstar.
1705
01:30:29,149 --> 01:30:31,449
- She wanted it that bad,
she's that ambitious.
1706
01:30:31,449 --> 01:30:34,479
She was not gonna be stopped.
1707
01:30:34,479 --> 01:30:36,350
- All the
while, Dan and Ed Gilroy
1708
01:30:36,350 --> 01:30:37,819
had continued working on songs
1709
01:30:37,819 --> 01:30:40,449
and playing out
as a two-man act.
1710
01:30:40,460 --> 01:30:42,659
- Dan and Ed Gilroy
gave me a tape
1711
01:30:42,659 --> 01:30:45,930
of what they had been doing
in the last year or so,
1712
01:30:45,930 --> 01:30:49,060
I guess it was, and
I was playing it
1713
01:30:49,069 --> 01:30:51,500
'cause I was gonna rejoin them,
1714
01:30:51,500 --> 01:30:53,800
I was gonna go back to playing
bass for them and stuff.
1715
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:55,329
Steve heard it.
1716
01:30:55,340 --> 01:30:56,810
¶ That took a memory ¶
1717
01:30:56,810 --> 01:30:58,140
- He liked it, ya know?
1718
01:30:58,140 --> 01:31:00,310
¶ I can't wait, I
don't wanna know ¶
1719
01:31:00,310 --> 01:31:04,609
- Gary happened to play
some of our tape for Steve,
1720
01:31:04,609 --> 01:31:06,680
and Steve said, "Oh
wow, what's that?"
1721
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:10,250
- So, after Breakfast Club
with Madonna broke up,
1722
01:31:10,250 --> 01:31:14,390
and then Emmy broke up,
we were able to get Steve
1723
01:31:14,390 --> 01:31:17,560
to rehearse with us as he
had been working with Gary,
1724
01:31:17,560 --> 01:31:20,189
and we put together
the New Breakfast Club.
1725
01:31:25,199 --> 01:31:28,239
- And Steve and Gary came
over here to the synagogue,
1726
01:31:28,239 --> 01:31:30,170
and we started doing the songs
1727
01:31:30,170 --> 01:31:32,369
that Dan and I had
been workin' on.
1728
01:31:32,380 --> 01:31:34,750
- Getting Steve in the
band was a big deal
1729
01:31:34,752 --> 01:31:38,680
because it took us to a really
different level musically.
1730
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:42,819
- We kinda became a dance
synthesizer driven band
1731
01:31:45,390 --> 01:31:50,460
with drum machines, and it was
sort of a Steve Bray thing.
1732
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:52,760
- Stephen was really
good in rehearsal
1733
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:54,590
because it was
like all business.
1734
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:56,029
Let's do it, let's do it again,
1735
01:31:56,029 --> 01:31:58,159
let's do it over again,
let's do it over again.
1736
01:31:58,170 --> 01:31:59,569
Instead of moving
to the next song,
1737
01:31:59,569 --> 01:32:01,170
let's get this one right.
1738
01:32:01,170 --> 01:32:03,470
- Because of
Stephen having co-written
1739
01:32:03,470 --> 01:32:05,670
several songs on the
Like A Virgin album,
1740
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:07,550
the band was able to
get their demo tapes
1741
01:32:07,552 --> 01:32:10,909
into the hands of
major record companies.
1742
01:32:10,909 --> 01:32:13,380
- But it was a lot of
fun and it was exciting
1743
01:32:13,380 --> 01:32:16,579
being courted by
A&R people and such.
1744
01:32:16,590 --> 01:32:18,819
- The phone rang, it was
Irving Azoff from MCA,
1745
01:32:18,819 --> 01:32:21,659
and saying I wanna
sign you guys.
1746
01:32:22,789 --> 01:32:24,989
That was the first I heard.
1747
01:32:24,989 --> 01:32:26,720
What a day that was.
1748
01:32:28,130 --> 01:32:31,000
- And then Breakfast Club
got signed to MCA Records.
1749
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:32,829
- In
1987, Breakfast Club
1750
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:35,779
released their studio album.
1751
01:32:35,782 --> 01:32:38,699
- The big record on our
thing was Right on Track,
1752
01:32:38,710 --> 01:32:41,310
which was a big summer hit.
1753
01:32:41,310 --> 01:32:45,810
It went to number like seven
on the Billboard Hot 100.
1754
01:32:45,819 --> 01:32:47,720
You couldn't go anywhere
without hearing it on the radio
1755
01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:50,050
or at the beach or
something like that.
1756
01:32:50,050 --> 01:32:53,949
¶ Gonna make a move
that knocks you over ¶
1757
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:57,729
¶ Watch this turn, this
one's gonna put you away. ¶
1758
01:32:57,729 --> 01:33:02,529
¶ Yeah, but I'm doin' my
very best dancin', yeah ¶
1759
01:33:02,529 --> 01:33:05,659
¶ Every time you're
lookin' the other way ¶
1760
01:33:05,670 --> 01:33:09,739
¶ I could move out to
the left for awhile ¶
1761
01:33:09,739 --> 01:33:13,779
- And we got nominated for
a Grammy as Best New Artist.
1762
01:33:13,779 --> 01:33:15,279
Madonna was very supportive.
1763
01:33:15,279 --> 01:33:18,109
She sent telegrams
over here, ya know,
1764
01:33:18,109 --> 01:33:22,180
Great F, asterisk, asterisk,
asterisk, asterisk,
1765
01:33:24,050 --> 01:33:25,880
I-N-G album.
1766
01:33:25,890 --> 01:33:28,829
- Did a lot of
nice videos on MTV
1767
01:33:28,829 --> 01:33:31,100
back when they used
to play videos,
1768
01:33:31,104 --> 01:33:34,689
and we used to do MTV
veejaying, which was fun, too.
1769
01:33:38,199 --> 01:33:39,369
Hi, we're Dan and Ed.
1770
01:33:39,369 --> 01:33:40,569
We're from Breakfast Club.
1771
01:33:40,569 --> 01:33:41,770
Steve and Gary
aren't here today.
1772
01:33:41,770 --> 01:33:43,239
- We miss 'em, to.
- We love 'em.
1773
01:33:43,239 --> 01:33:45,939
- So, we had a pretty good
relationship with MTV,
1774
01:33:45,939 --> 01:33:49,039
and we shot like six videos.
1775
01:33:49,050 --> 01:33:52,390
One of them was Kiss and
Tell, which we shot in L.A.
1776
01:33:53,350 --> 01:33:56,319
¶ La la la la la, oh oh ¶
1777
01:33:56,319 --> 01:33:59,819
¶ I'll kiss and tell ¶
1778
01:33:59,819 --> 01:34:03,220
¶ And everybody's gonna know ¶
1779
01:34:03,229 --> 01:34:05,800
¶ La la la la ¶
1780
01:34:06,899 --> 01:34:09,100
- Silverlake, I think
is where we shot it,
1781
01:34:09,100 --> 01:34:10,899
and Madonna stopped by.
1782
01:34:10,899 --> 01:34:12,329
- She did show up
for Kiss and Tell.
1783
01:34:12,340 --> 01:34:15,609
It was our second video shoot.
1784
01:34:15,609 --> 01:34:17,310
- We weren't all
that well known,
1785
01:34:17,310 --> 01:34:21,779
and Madonna coming to the
shoot made an amazing stir.
1786
01:34:22,850 --> 01:34:25,250
- Madonna's here, you
know, Madonna's...
1787
01:34:25,250 --> 01:34:27,649
She was pretty famous by then.
1788
01:34:27,649 --> 01:34:30,579
- The whole, the
crew, and everybody,
1789
01:34:30,590 --> 01:34:32,619
the craft services people,
1790
01:34:32,619 --> 01:34:35,920
because Madonna
was there. (laughs)
1791
01:34:35,930 --> 01:34:38,500
She come up to me, and gave
me a big kiss on the mouth,
1792
01:34:38,503 --> 01:34:41,760
and everybody, suddenly
my cache went way up.
1793
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:43,229
It was like can I get you?
1794
01:34:43,229 --> 01:34:44,859
Can I get you?
1795
01:34:44,869 --> 01:34:48,840
Suddenly I was like,
'cause Madonna, Madonna.
1796
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:51,640
And people were, can
you introduce me to her?
1797
01:34:53,109 --> 01:34:55,539
- I was a little starstruck
about it.
1798
01:34:55,550 --> 01:34:57,350
She had made it so big.
1799
01:34:57,350 --> 01:34:59,020
I was a little like tongue tied.
1800
01:34:59,020 --> 01:35:01,050
She was probably there
more to see Steve and Dan,
1801
01:35:01,050 --> 01:35:02,949
I figured, or
something like that.
1802
01:35:02,949 --> 01:35:04,380
- I hadn't seen her in awhile,
1803
01:35:04,390 --> 01:35:06,159
and she was huge at that point.
1804
01:35:06,159 --> 01:35:10,060
I hadn't seen her
since she was not huge,
1805
01:35:10,060 --> 01:35:12,390
and the difference
was pretty amazing,
1806
01:35:12,399 --> 01:35:14,600
the way people responded.
1807
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:19,270
- Remember how all I wanted
was for people to notice me?
1808
01:35:25,810 --> 01:35:29,880
Now, I find myself just
hiding most of the time.
1809
01:35:31,109 --> 01:35:33,739
- And it might have
been at a point
1810
01:35:33,750 --> 01:35:36,579
where she was just
bein' hounded,
1811
01:35:36,590 --> 01:35:39,659
paparazzi and all
of that, but yeah.
1812
01:35:41,319 --> 01:35:44,220
"Now, I spend all
my time hiding."
1813
01:36:14,989 --> 01:36:17,789
¶ The ants play
Bingo in your snout ¶
1814
01:36:17,789 --> 01:36:20,260
¶ Your eyes cave in,
your teeth decay ¶
1815
01:36:20,260 --> 01:36:23,060
¶ Don't cry ¶
1816
01:36:23,069 --> 01:36:24,340
- Yeah, let's just,
¶ Don't ¶
1817
01:36:24,342 --> 01:36:26,300
- It's not serious at all.
¶ Cry ¶
1818
01:36:26,300 --> 01:36:27,369
Don't cry, Dan.
- No.
1819
01:36:27,369 --> 01:36:28,939
- Don't cry.
1820
01:36:28,939 --> 01:36:30,170
- You said somethin'.
1821
01:36:30,170 --> 01:36:32,239
- Do you cry when I cry?
1822
01:36:34,539 --> 01:36:36,439
Do you taste your tears?
1823
01:36:41,649 --> 01:36:43,420
- In 2008
Madonna was inducted
1824
01:36:43,420 --> 01:36:46,859
into the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame.
1825
01:36:46,859 --> 01:36:51,430
- I got a phone call from
my niece livin' out in L.A.,
1826
01:36:51,430 --> 01:36:53,260
said, "Hey, did you hear?
1827
01:36:53,260 --> 01:36:55,189
"Madonna was inducted
into the Hall of Fame.
1828
01:36:55,199 --> 01:36:58,170
"She talked about Uncle
Eddie and Uncle Danny."
1829
01:36:58,170 --> 01:37:00,439
- It was a surprise
that she mentioned me,
1830
01:37:00,439 --> 01:37:02,310
like right away,
like that was great.
1831
01:37:02,310 --> 01:37:06,750
It was wonderful, in fact,
and it changed my whole,
1832
01:37:06,753 --> 01:37:10,880
in town, the musicians in town
were like, did you see that?
1833
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:14,109
Suddenly, again, it's
like we were with Madonna.
1834
01:37:14,119 --> 01:37:16,960
It's like she threw
the spotlight.
1835
01:37:18,619 --> 01:37:21,220
- I have always been fortunate
to have people around me
1836
01:37:21,220 --> 01:37:23,020
who believed in me.
1837
01:37:23,029 --> 01:37:27,369
Starting with my ballet
teacher, Christopher Flynn,
1838
01:37:28,930 --> 01:37:31,699
and then there was Dan Gilroy.
1839
01:37:31,699 --> 01:37:33,630
He lived in an abandoned
synagogue in Queens
1840
01:37:33,640 --> 01:37:35,270
with his brother, Ed.
1841
01:37:35,270 --> 01:37:37,739
They played in a band together.
1842
01:37:37,739 --> 01:37:40,270
I was sick of being
an out of work dancer,
1843
01:37:40,279 --> 01:37:43,109
so he taught me
how to play guitar.
1844
01:37:43,109 --> 01:37:46,039
I wrote my first song
in that synagogue.
1845
01:37:46,050 --> 01:37:49,949
It was called, ironically,
Tell the Truth.
1846
01:37:49,949 --> 01:37:51,850
- One, two, three, four.
1847
01:37:51,850 --> 01:37:55,619
¶ This is what I'm
going to tell you ¶
1848
01:37:55,630 --> 01:37:59,630
¶ This is what
I'm going to say ¶
1849
01:37:59,630 --> 01:38:04,699
¶ It's not very
clear, but it's okay ¶
1850
01:38:07,470 --> 01:38:11,369
¶ Tell the truth ¶
1851
01:38:11,369 --> 01:38:15,039
¶ Tell the truth ¶
1852
01:38:15,039 --> 01:38:18,069
¶ Tell the truth to me ¶
1853
01:38:18,079 --> 01:38:21,279
- I remember that
moment so, so vividly.
1854
01:38:21,279 --> 01:38:23,750
I remember the hair standing
up on the back of my arms,
1855
01:38:23,750 --> 01:38:27,989
and I thought to myself,
who just wrote that song?
1856
01:38:29,329 --> 01:38:32,329
- Ya know, that thing about
when you hear something,
1857
01:38:32,329 --> 01:38:36,569
and you go wow, is
this, and she said this,
1858
01:38:36,569 --> 01:38:39,539
when she wrote her first
song, Tell the Truth,
1859
01:38:39,539 --> 01:38:42,210
right here on this
Carlo Robelli guitar,
1860
01:38:42,212 --> 01:38:45,470
and right here in
this room, she said,
1861
01:38:45,470 --> 01:38:47,170
"Oh, what is that?
1862
01:38:47,180 --> 01:38:48,810
"Is it me?"
1863
01:38:48,810 --> 01:38:52,649
- I felt like I had been
possessed by some magic.
1864
01:38:58,319 --> 01:39:01,920
¶ I don't have far to go now ¶
1865
01:39:01,920 --> 01:39:06,560
¶ But it certainly seems so ¶
1866
01:39:06,560 --> 01:39:10,500
¶ But you are the end
of the line, dear ¶
1867
01:39:10,500 --> 01:39:13,539
¶ I really do wanna go ¶
1868
01:39:13,539 --> 01:39:16,170
Madonna probably felt
like her time here
1869
01:39:16,170 --> 01:39:19,710
was really a good time for
her, ya know what I mean?
1870
01:39:19,710 --> 01:39:22,340
She came in and
found that footing
1871
01:39:22,350 --> 01:39:23,979
that maybe she was looking for.
1872
01:39:23,979 --> 01:39:25,510
Am I gonna be a dancer or this?
1873
01:39:25,510 --> 01:39:30,449
She saw songwriters and all
this music and instruments,
1874
01:39:31,819 --> 01:39:34,119
and so she was able to figure
out I wanna be a songwriter.
1875
01:39:34,119 --> 01:39:36,720
I wanna put my stuff out there.
1876
01:39:36,729 --> 01:39:40,970
I wanna play music, and
so, ya know, it had to be.
1877
01:39:42,199 --> 01:39:44,800
- There are many
talented beautiful girls,
1878
01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:48,470
but she had the drive
to push it all the way
1879
01:39:48,470 --> 01:39:51,800
to make every bit of her
talent work and pay off.
1880
01:39:51,810 --> 01:39:54,140
- And she's smart, and
she's a businesswoman,
1881
01:39:54,140 --> 01:39:58,979
and so she wanted it all,
and she really did it.
1882
01:39:58,979 --> 01:40:01,050
- I mean, I knew that
she was gonna make it
1883
01:40:01,050 --> 01:40:03,180
with that ambition.
1884
01:40:03,189 --> 01:40:05,060
I didn't think she'd be
on the cover of Time,
1885
01:40:05,063 --> 01:40:10,119
necessarily, two years
later, but she was. (laughs)
1886
01:40:11,229 --> 01:40:14,869
- She's the one who made
it happen for herself.
1887
01:40:14,872 --> 01:40:18,329
You can be as male or
female as you wanna be,
1888
01:40:18,329 --> 01:40:19,899
but you're gonna
be your own person,
1889
01:40:19,899 --> 01:40:22,500
and I think that's what
there is about Madonna
1890
01:40:22,510 --> 01:40:25,840
to this day that
makes her so powerful.
1891
01:40:27,380 --> 01:40:32,350
- She's not some pop star that
was molded by Madison Avenue
1892
01:40:33,949 --> 01:40:38,619
or the entertainment
industry to become famous.
1893
01:40:38,619 --> 01:40:42,289
She's someone that
was born that way,
1894
01:40:42,289 --> 01:40:45,930
and that essence is
there until she's gone,
1895
01:40:48,600 --> 01:40:51,800
and maybe, who knows, beyond.
1896
01:40:51,800 --> 01:40:53,899
- One, two, ah.
1897
01:41:00,710 --> 01:41:04,909
¶ I see you and me on a boat ¶
1898
01:41:04,909 --> 01:41:08,010
¶ Or a raft or something
that will float ¶
1899
01:41:08,020 --> 01:41:13,060
¶ And we're drifting ¶
1900
01:41:14,260 --> 01:41:18,029
¶ Little breeze,
the gentle swell ¶
1901
01:41:18,029 --> 01:41:23,100
¶ Otherwise how can we
tell if we're drifting ¶
1902
01:41:26,569 --> 01:41:30,270
¶ And if we don't know ¶
1903
01:41:30,270 --> 01:41:35,340
¶ Where we're going to,
why should we care ¶
1904
01:41:36,449 --> 01:41:40,649
¶ We'll find out
when we get there ¶
1905
01:41:43,850 --> 01:41:46,180
¶ I've got you ¶
1906
01:41:46,189 --> 01:41:51,260
¶ Oh I know no
matter where we go ¶
1907
01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:56,460
¶ Let's keep drifting ¶
1908
01:41:57,170 --> 01:41:59,800
¶ And if they say ¶
1909
01:41:59,800 --> 01:42:04,869
¶ You're gonna drift your
life away, why do we care ¶
1910
01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:08,069
¶ We'll just say hey ¶
1911
01:42:08,079 --> 01:42:13,119
¶ I will be there ¶
1912
01:42:14,279 --> 01:42:17,680
¶ And if we drift too
close to the shore ¶
1913
01:42:17,689 --> 01:42:19,819
¶ We could go there ¶
1914
01:42:19,819 --> 01:42:21,789
¶ What for ¶
1915
01:42:21,789 --> 01:42:25,689
¶ Let's keep drifting ¶
1916
01:42:25,689 --> 01:42:29,430
¶ Yeah, let's keep drifting ¶
1917
01:42:30,699 --> 01:42:32,670
- Come on, I think we're ready.
1918
01:42:32,670 --> 01:42:33,899
- Okay, bye.
1919
01:42:33,899 --> 01:42:36,399
- I'll give you
an extension cord.
1920
01:42:40,140 --> 01:42:42,109
-If she
walked in the room right now,
1921
01:42:42,109 --> 01:42:44,010
what would you say to her?
1922
01:42:44,010 --> 01:42:45,909
- If she walked in
the room right now?
1923
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:49,050
It would be quite fun, I'm sure.
1924
01:42:49,050 --> 01:42:52,220
I'm sure she'd go hey, hey,
and I'd give her a hug,
1925
01:42:52,220 --> 01:42:54,189
a long, long, long hug.
1926
01:42:55,319 --> 01:42:57,819
That's what I'd do,
and it would be fun.
1927
01:42:57,829 --> 01:43:01,399
No doubt.
1928
01:43:01,399 --> 01:43:02,670
- That's a wrap!
1929
01:43:11,409 --> 01:43:13,510
- One,
two, three, four.
1930
01:43:22,020 --> 01:43:25,090
¶ I don't have far to go now ¶
1931
01:43:25,090 --> 01:43:29,460
¶ But it certainly seems so ¶
1932
01:43:29,460 --> 01:43:33,560
¶ With you at the end
of the line, dear ¶
1933
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:36,430
¶ I really do wanna go ¶
1934
01:43:36,430 --> 01:43:41,500
¶ But this wind it keeps
whippin' in on me ¶
1935
01:43:42,569 --> 01:43:44,140
¶ Yeah ¶
1936
01:43:44,140 --> 01:43:49,210
¶ The cold wind it keeps
whippin' in on me ¶
1937
01:43:50,109 --> 01:43:53,310
¶ Oh, yeah ¶
1938
01:43:53,319 --> 01:43:56,819
¶ Sometimes my spirit's empty ¶
1939
01:43:56,819 --> 01:44:00,619
¶ And I need to fill it up ¶
1940
01:44:00,619 --> 01:44:04,689
¶ I know that there is plenty ¶
1941
01:44:04,689 --> 01:44:07,829
¶ But I never get enough ¶
1942
01:44:07,829 --> 01:44:12,729
¶ 'Cause this wind that
keeps whippin' in on me ¶
1943
01:44:12,739 --> 01:44:15,170
¶ Ooh, ooh, ooh ¶
1944
01:44:15,170 --> 01:44:20,210
¶ The cold wind it keeps
whippin' in on me ¶
1945
01:44:21,079 --> 01:44:22,949
¶ Oh yeah ¶
1946
01:44:22,949 --> 01:44:25,149
¶ Sometimes I try to attack it ¶
1947
01:44:25,149 --> 01:44:27,050
¶ Sometimes I try to attack it ¶
1948
01:44:27,050 --> 01:44:28,949
¶ Sometimes I try to attack it ¶
1949
01:44:28,949 --> 01:44:30,819
¶ It just blows me away ¶
1950
01:44:30,819 --> 01:44:33,050
¶ Sometimes I try
to attract it ¶
1951
01:44:33,060 --> 01:44:34,760
¶ Sometimes I try
to attract it ¶
1952
01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:36,829
¶ Sometimes I try
to attract it ¶
1953
01:44:36,829 --> 01:44:40,729
¶ It just blows me down ¶
1954
01:44:40,729 --> 01:44:45,800
¶ 'Cause this wind it
keeps whippin' in on me ¶
1955
01:44:46,569 --> 01:44:48,369
¶ Yeah ¶
1956
01:44:48,369 --> 01:44:53,439
¶ The cold wind it keeps
whippin' in on me ¶
1957
01:44:54,279 --> 01:44:56,380
¶ Oh, yeah ¶
1958
01:44:56,380 --> 01:44:58,050
¶ It keeps whippin' ¶
1959
01:44:58,050 --> 01:45:00,020
¶ It keeps whippin' ¶
1960
01:45:00,020 --> 01:45:03,960
¶ It keeps whippin' in on me ¶
1961
01:45:03,964 --> 01:45:09,020
¶ It keeps whippin', whippin',
whippin', whippin', whippin' ¶
1962
01:45:09,590 --> 01:45:11,789
¶ In on me ¶
142501
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