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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,020 Do you solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give 4 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,380 to be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? 5 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:52,380 Yes, I do. 6 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:53,740 Hi, Dr Butenhoff. 7 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,300 My name is Ned McWilliams 8 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:56,900 and I'm one of the attorneys representing 9 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,740 the various water districts around the country 10 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,360 that's suing your company, 3M, among others. 11 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,800 ♪ Man-made chemicals are 12 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:26,260 ♪ Poisoning the Earth ♪ 13 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,580 There were companies and people 14 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,060 that knew the nature and extent of this threat 15 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:32,300 but did it anyway. 16 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,660 ♪ Chemists move molecules around 17 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:36,740 ♪ Like we move furniture... ♪ 18 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,780 You can't help but ask 19 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,300 what kind of people do that? 20 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,780 ♪ After we're dead and gone 21 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,020 ♪ It will be here a million years... ♪ 22 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,020 This has to be the most explosive information 23 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,260 that I've found. 24 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,620 ♪ We'll all be dead and gone 25 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,020 ♪ And cried a billion tears... ♪ 26 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:58,580 It was our 'holy shit' moment. 27 00:02:58,680 --> 00:02:59,620 Yeah. 28 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:01,340 Like, people do this?! 29 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,620 ♪ In the water... ♪ 30 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,380 Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth 31 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,100 and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 32 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:08,540 I do. 33 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:11,380 If you wanted to contaminate the planet, 34 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,940 you couldn't have invented a better delivery device 35 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,220 than firefighting foam. 36 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,440 ♪ Flowing deep in the water. ♪ 37 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:41,980 Our old people 38 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,900 have always had a... a really special intimate relationship 39 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,140 with this place. 40 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,420 And when we go to special places like this, 41 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,760 it's really important that we pay respect... 42 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,300 ...to all this part here, 43 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,740 all this country, the water, 44 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:58,900 the trees... 45 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:00,780 ...grass, everything that's here. 46 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,420 It's all connected 47 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,820 and it was all here before us 48 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,640 and we're obligated to take care of it. 49 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,860 The Wreck Bay Aboriginal fishing community 50 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,780 is tucked away in a little bit of paradise 51 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,720 on the south coast of New South Wales. 52 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,020 It's pristine ocean. 53 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,820 And when you look across to the distance, it's the mountains 54 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,960 and they're quite blue because of our eucalypt that we have. 55 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,860 It's actually a place right on the ocean 56 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,340 that is just us, you know, 57 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,760 and it's been like that for thousands of years. 58 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:51,100 Wreck Bay has always been a fishing village 59 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,500 and everything is here. 60 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,920 Everything is here in abundance. 61 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:59,220 We'd go diving. 62 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:00,660 You know, little ones that I'd get 63 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,260 are little abalones or oysters. 64 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,140 So we wouldn't go home to have lunch. 65 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,140 We'd have lunch as we catch it. 66 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,860 So full of culture and heritage. 67 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,520 It was a child's playground in paradise. 68 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:21,820 We don't exist. 69 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:23,940 If... if we don't have water, we're not here. 70 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,040 It's who we are. 71 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,020 But now there's trouble in paradise. 72 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,940 PFAS chemicals used in firefighting foam 73 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,060 have leached out from a navy airfield 74 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,920 known as the Jervis Bay Range Facility. 75 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,300 Head along Wreck Bay Road. 76 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:46,900 See through there? 77 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,900 That's the east-west runway there. 78 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,860 Into the right here, we've got the training centre 79 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,420 where they do all their fire drills. 80 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,580 Where the PFAS was kept and stored. 81 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,420 But everything from there, from their training centre, 82 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,520 all that water... 83 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,060 ...every time it rains, everything runs down this hill 84 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,420 and it runs straight into little gutters and creeks 85 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,260 and... and... all of these little nooks and crannies 86 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,260 that all flow down into Wreck Bay 87 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,120 and then it runs into... into our ocean down here. 88 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,660 The two main, um, killers in the community 89 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,420 is from heart... heart attack 90 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:30,820 and cancer. 91 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,780 I had a... um, cancerous cyst in my pancreas. 92 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:39,880 Pancreatic cancer is very brutal and savage. 93 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,980 Since January, we've had six funerals. 94 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,680 So a lot of alarm bells was ringing. 95 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,080 You know, it's a chemical used for something... 96 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,380 ...that's like a business model. 97 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,180 And when you look at that, 98 00:06:57,280 --> 00:06:58,740 it's all to do with that, 99 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:00,700 to do with money. 100 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,140 If we can be taken right back to those places 101 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:05,780 where people signed that dotted line 102 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,980 and where that was a business transaction, 103 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,240 you know, those people need to be made accountable. 104 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,300 The whole process that it's gone through to get here 105 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:20,080 and to poison our beautiful part of country has to be unpacked. 106 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,420 I think once people start to see this story, 107 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,180 um, and see how much information was known by this company 108 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,700 going back as far as it does, 109 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,140 and knowing how much 110 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,740 of the current PFAS contamination problem 111 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,020 could have been prevented, 112 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,200 I think there are gonna be a lot of people that are very angry. 113 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,580 How do you, in good conscience, 114 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,580 if you're aware that a product that you manufacture, 115 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,100 and are essentially the exclusive manufacturer of, 116 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:00,780 and you know that it's in the blood 117 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:02,260 of the general population 118 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:03,460 all around the world, 119 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,300 how is it that you could in good conscience 120 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:06,900 not tell folks? 121 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,300 And you let generation after generation be exposed... 122 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,300 - Right. - ...um, in the name of profits. 123 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,260 I guess that's the goal of our trial, 124 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,140 is to... to tell that story. 125 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,540 We're talking about worldwide contamination 126 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,780 and, what, 3M knew and when they knew it. 127 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,220 I mean, if you think about the amount of effort 128 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,780 3M has spent over the years 129 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,420 to keep this under wraps, 130 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,380 you know, to make sure that people didn't see this evidence. 131 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,300 And, again, it's just remarkable to me 132 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,380 that we're now having to... to prepare these cases 133 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:42,900 to go to trial 134 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,500 to get these people to accept responsibility 135 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,180 for what they did. 136 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:49,180 Right. 137 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,020 And there's no doubt who did it. 138 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,380 If you wanted to deliberately contaminate the planet 139 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:54,860 with PFAS, 140 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,460 you couldn't have invented a better delivery device 141 00:08:57,560 --> 00:08:58,860 than firefighting foam 142 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,900 where you're literally spraying it into the environment, 143 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,180 into the water, and don't do anything to clean it up 144 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:06,740 and just let it soak in, 145 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,700 let it leach through the... through the ground 146 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,500 into the aquifers, into people's drinking water 147 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,780 and that's exactly what they did. 148 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,240 ♪ Man-made chemicals are 149 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:19,840 ♪ Poisoning the Earth 150 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,100 ♪ Chemists move molecules around 151 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,000 ♪ Like we move furniture... ♪ 152 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,700 I was always drawn to being a trial lawyer, 153 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,220 which is, I like to say, it's sort of performative art. 154 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,940 The only difference is I have a much more captive audience 155 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:41,380 when I have a jury. 156 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,480 They have to sit and listen to me. 157 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,140 I started out as a struggling musician 158 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,820 for the first 30 years of my life. 159 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,900 ♪ Rollin' down ol' River Road... ♪ 160 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,220 We played everywhere. 161 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,820 We played some of the most famous punk rock scenes 162 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,220 of the '70s and '80s in New York 163 00:09:58,320 --> 00:09:59,740 and we had a blast. 164 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,300 ♪ Give me hope, give me strength 165 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,380 ♪ And the faith when I need it most... ♪ 166 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,340 I did not go to law school till I was 30 167 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,700 and I realised I had... ..to make a living. 168 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,820 ♪ Holding on. ♪ 169 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,300 - And I also believed... 170 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:17,820 ...in pursuing just causes, 171 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:19,700 so I would look to defend the little guy. 172 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,340 I got recruited by a firm 173 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,740 that was doing tobacco litigation for plaintiffs 174 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,220 and we would be representing thousands of people. 175 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,100 And I won. 176 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,700 I think at that time it was the third successful case 177 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,500 in the United States. 178 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,340 And then Rob Bilott, um, reached out to me. 179 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,380 His cases were gonna go to trial 180 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,480 and he needed a trial lawyer. 181 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:47,180 I was working at a law firm 182 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,220 where we were helping big corporate clients, 183 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,220 a lot of big chemical companies. 184 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,380 And I got a call in my office one day 185 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,380 from a gentleman who identified himself as Mr Tennant 186 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,100 out in West Virginia 187 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,580 and was telling me that he had cows dying 188 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:03,340 that I needed to help him with. 189 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:04,940 He was convinced 190 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,340 there was something 191 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,340 obviously in this white foam 192 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:09,900 coming out of this landfill 193 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:11,980 owned by DuPont 194 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:13,780 that was impacting the cows. 195 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,620 By the time he had called me in 1998, 196 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,580 he had lost over a hundred of these animals. 197 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:23,820 That call led to what became 198 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,220 the next several decades of litigation 199 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,200 involving these PFAS "forever chemicals". 200 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,180 We represented a class of 3,000 people. 201 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,460 We tried three individual cases, won them all 202 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:39,420 and DuPont... ...finally caved in 203 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,060 and settled with all 3,000 people 204 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,160 in that community. 205 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,580 It ended up being on the cover 206 00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:47,680 of the 'New York Times' magazine. 207 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:50,700 After that story came out, 208 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,140 one of the people 209 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,340 that apparently had seen the story and reached out to me 210 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,100 was Mark Ruffalo. 211 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:58,660 You knew. 212 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,760 Still you did nothing. 213 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,180 'Dark Waters' tells the true story of Robert Bilott, 214 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,860 the underdog lawyer who took on the industrial giant 215 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:09,340 DuPont Chemical. 216 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,060 You want to take everything that you know 217 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,980 and turn it against an iconic American company, 218 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:16,460 like an informant! 219 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:18,260 Isn't that right? Isn't that right?! 220 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,360 - Isn't that right? - Yes! 221 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,140 - Hey. - Oh. Oh, man. 222 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:24,740 - So good to see you. - Yeah, you too. 223 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,220 - How are you doing? - Awesome. 224 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,700 - Oh, buddy, it's been too long. - Yeah! 225 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,860 - Good to see you. Yeah. - Good to see you. 226 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,740 - It's almost been two years. - Yeah. 227 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,780 The film, you know, that we did together, 228 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,620 it seems to have created a space 229 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,140 to start to change everything. 230 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,500 - Would you say that was true? - Absolutely. 231 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,500 I think it really showed people, "Wait a minute, 232 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,700 "this stuff, it's not just in the water 233 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,180 "in a town in West Virginia." 234 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,140 This stuff that we were dealing with 235 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,460 and that you see in the film, 'Dark Waters', 236 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:57,820 it's the same chemicals now that are in the water in the UK, 237 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,100 in Germany, in Italy, in Australia, in Japan. 238 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,020 This story... 239 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,860 ...it's... it's playing out all over the world now. 240 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,940 This was always the... thing 241 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:11,900 that was astonishing to me, 242 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,820 that people made the decision 243 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,540 to go forward 244 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,120 with putting these chemicals in... 245 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:21,500 ...our environment. 246 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,140 They knew what they were doing. 247 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,900 Those were decisions that were made by people. 248 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,600 You can't help but ask... 249 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,860 ...what kind of people do that? 250 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,260 3M were a large multinational conglomerate 251 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:41,340 chemical company. 252 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,220 They're based in Minnesota. 253 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:44,980 They go back to the 1800s. 254 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,180 And they're in the business of selling 255 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,300 thousands of different 256 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:50,900 commercial and industrial products. 257 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,340 It's a multibillion-dollar company, 258 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,700 and they were back in the '70s when this all got started. 259 00:13:54,800 --> 00:14:00,340 PFAS is per- and polyfluoroalkylated substances. 260 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,780 It is a family of completely man-made chemicals. 261 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,980 These are chemicals that never existed on the planet 262 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,900 prior to World War II. 263 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,980 The two chemicals that we... that we've been talking about here 264 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,660 that we know the most about in this PFAS family 265 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,460 are the ones that have eight carbons - the C8s. 266 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,420 That's PFOA 267 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,340 and PFOS. 268 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:23,420 Both of these, really, 269 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,520 were created by 3M. 270 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,980 PFOA was sold primarily to DuPont 271 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,380 to use in things like Teflon. 272 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,300 PFOS, on the other hand, 273 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,980 was one that was primarily used by 3M 274 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:44,700 in a lot of its own products, 275 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,800 things like Scotchgard. 276 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,180 And also they made this thing called Scotchban. 277 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,500 Think of like, uh, a... a hamburger wrapper. 278 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,500 That special paper where the grease doesn't leak through it? 279 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,220 That was what these products were primarily used for. 280 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,100 PFOS was very much their secret sauce, 281 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:05,660 their proprietary chemical. 282 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:06,900 No-one outside of 3M 283 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,420 had ever made it before, 284 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,520 had ever seen it before, knew anything about it. 285 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,620 3M also started using PFOS, 286 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,380 and then in later years PFOA was used as well, 287 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,960 in making a product called aqueous film forming foam... 288 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,260 ...a type of firefighting foam 289 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,660 used to combat petroleum fires. 290 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,660 This was created primarily around the 1960s 291 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,380 and started being sold to the US military. 292 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,420 And over the last several decades, 293 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,420 this product, this... this firefighting foam 294 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,220 that's containing these PFAS chemicals, 295 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,780 has been sold to airports, fire stations, 296 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,920 military personnel, firefighters all over the world. 297 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:01,420 And this whole other story started to become apparent 298 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,900 of how much the... the Department of Defense 299 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,180 was using this 300 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:09,940 and how many bases 301 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,980 throughout the United States were poisoned 302 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:14,820 and how many firefighters... 303 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:15,820 Yeah. 304 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,740 ...who are covered in this stuff. 305 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,540 And are told, "You spray it all out there," 306 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,500 even though these companies understood 307 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,420 when they were making this stuff 308 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,020 it's got PFAS in it. 309 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,700 And these types of chemicals 310 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,500 when they get out into the environment, 311 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,740 they never break down. 312 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,900 And so the problem is not only do these chemicals 313 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,400 get out into our environment and stay there... 314 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,340 ...they're incredibly toxic 315 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,860 and they've been found to be incredibly persistent, 316 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:49,580 bioaccumulative 317 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,540 and, unfortunately in some situations, 318 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,060 carcinogenic as well. 319 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,820 A lot of the information that has come out over the years 320 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,580 has focused on what DuPont was doing 321 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:00,780 and what DuPont knew 322 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:01,940 about these chemicals 323 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:03,660 and how DuPont had covered up 324 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,760 information about the health threat here. 325 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,700 There hasn't been as much information available 326 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:14,060 about what 3M knew about these chemicals. 327 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,780 This is the company that actually created these 328 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:18,880 at the beginning. 329 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,900 The stakes are enormous 330 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,900 because it's about holding to account chemical companies 331 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,220 that have been responsible for manufacturing a product 332 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,100 that has contaminated virtually everyone and everything 333 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:36,900 on the planet 334 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,620 from here to Australia 335 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,540 to Europe to China. 336 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,060 We're just on the northern edge 337 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,460 of the airfield here. 338 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,420 We've just had bucketloads 339 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:07,860 of rain falling down 340 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,500 and now all this foam 341 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,760 seems to be coming down the waterways off the base. 342 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,040 You'd have to say that would have to be PFAS. 343 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,460 I've been reporting on PFAS contamination 344 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,580 for about eight years now. 345 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,660 It really is one of those issues 346 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,220 where every time you turn the stone over, 347 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,320 you just find something new. 348 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,360 This is the only road that takes you into Wreck Bay. 349 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,040 We're just approaching the naval college on our right. 350 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,500 This is where the majority of the cadets 351 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,340 have done their fire training 352 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,820 and so you'd have to think 353 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:56,700 that the majority of the PFAS contamination 354 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,860 has come from this area. 355 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,740 So any training that they've done here 356 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:02,820 is gonna have flushed down the hill, 357 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,640 straight towards the village of Wreck Bay. 358 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,740 So, really, in this national park, 359 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,460 you could not have a worse possible spot 360 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,680 to be doing your fire training with toxic PFAS chemicals. 361 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,380 Hi, Uncle Jack. 362 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,500 -Hi, Carrie. How are you? -Yeah. 363 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,060 - I'm really well, thanks. -Yeah? 364 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:30,580 -How are you? - Good, thank you. 365 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:35,940 I started as a ranger in 1968. 366 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,300 I was the first Aboriginal ranger in the Territory. 367 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,420 We were doing all our firefighting modules 368 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,540 up at the Jervis Bay Range Facility. 369 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,420 If we wanted to put out an oil fire, 370 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,700 we'd have to use the foam and the water to put it out. 371 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:01,420 If we wanted to go into a big, uh, tank or... or like a cabin, 372 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,460 we'd have to crawl through in the water and everything else 373 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,060 while they had all the smoke and fire in there. 374 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,020 And what... what would happen, 375 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:13,140 we'd come out all soaking wet 376 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,140 from the foam and everything else 377 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,500 and we'd have to, uh, go near a fire and dry ourself out. 378 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:21,940 - Oh, wow! - Yeah. 379 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,500 So you were actually crawling through water 380 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:24,940 that had the foam in it. 381 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,420 - Is that right? - Yeah, it had... Yeah. Yeah. 382 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,260 And did you ever use anything to protect yourself, 383 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:31,220 gloves and things, when you're handling the foam? 384 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,140 -No. No. No. - That kind of thing. 385 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,140 - We'd just use our bare hands. - Wild. Oh, wow. 386 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,700 And with a helmet on. Not even a... a face mask. 387 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,300 - Wow. - And our overalls. 388 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,400 And our boots. Mmm. 389 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,780 So, of the firefighters you worked with, 390 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,060 how many are still alive now? 391 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,780 There'd be only about eight of us. 392 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:53,880 -Wow. - That I know of. 393 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,780 The rest of them have all passed on. 394 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:58,980 And so how many, roughly, 395 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,260 would you say have passed? 396 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:03,540 I'd say... 397 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,640 ...between 20 and 22... 398 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,280 ...hmm, have passed. 399 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,580 The navy asked us if we want to do some training 400 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,980 up at the aerodrome. 401 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,620 They said, "We use foam." 402 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,720 I said, "That's alright." 403 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,160 'Cause I didn't know what was in the foam. 404 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,820 I've had, uh, prostate cancer, 405 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,220 which I've had my prostate removed. 406 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,300 They found that I had cirrhosis of the liver. 407 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,540 Every doctor I've been to, they've asked me, 408 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,640 "Are you a heavy drinker?" 409 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:46,500 "No, sir. 410 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,500 "I'm not a heavy drinker." 411 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,300 The cancers that you've had, 412 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,500 are those sort of any possibility 413 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,780 that they were inherited down the line 414 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,220 like hereditary cancers? 415 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,420 - No. No. - No. 416 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,900 There's no history of it 417 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,100 in... in my... you know, my family. 418 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,260 All these different types of 419 00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:05,180 deformities and blood disorders 420 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:06,740 and... and cancers 421 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,180 that have come to our community 422 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,500 can't be just... hereditary 423 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,880 and it can't be just... you know, a... a fate of bad luck. 424 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,000 It has to have come from something else. 425 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,500 One of the biggest stories 426 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,340 I've ever written in my career 427 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,060 would have to be the story I wrote 428 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,060 about Tartan High School, Minnesota, 429 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,800 that was basically on the doorstep of 3M's headquarters. 430 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,460 They'd had plants over there 431 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,260 that were manufacturing PFAS 432 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,900 and that the PFAS had contaminated the drinking water. 433 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,580 So I started googling the name of this town 434 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,780 where their headquarters was, which was called Oakdale, 435 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,140 and I was just blown away to see these articles coming up 436 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,820 about these kids who were dying of cancer 437 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,020 at the local high school. 438 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,100 So I just remember this moment, it was like a lightning bolt, 439 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,260 of how... how could this happen, number one? 440 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:18,100 And... and number two, why was no-one talking about 441 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,740 why all these kids were dying of cancer 442 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,220 and... and the potential... 443 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,780 ...no-one seemed to have made that connection 444 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,220 to the contamination of the drinking water? 445 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,420 Most of them had grown up drinking water 446 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,260 that was contaminated with PFAS 447 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:32,500 and their parents had even drinking that water 448 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,980 while they were in utero. 449 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,820 So once I got over there, I just went doorknocking. 450 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,580 So I managed to find, um, a few names of the kids that had died 451 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,620 and I went and knocked on those doors. 452 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,140 And then it just spread and spread. 453 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,660 And by the end of the two weeks, 454 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,620 I'd managed to find 21 cancer cases at that school 455 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,740 that all happened within a 15-year period. 456 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:00,180 The types of cancers ranged from Hodgkin's lymphoma, 457 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,020 leukaemia 458 00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:03,540 to bone cancer, 459 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:04,980 and about six cases 460 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,460 of brain tumours. 461 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,060 And, tragically, 462 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:09,540 at the time of my visit, 463 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,060 five of the students had already passed away 464 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,160 at a really young age. 465 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,860 I met a lot of the students. 466 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,900 And one of the ones that really stood out to me 467 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,340 was Amara Strande. 468 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,580 When I was 15, I was diagnosed with 469 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,140 fibrolamellar hepatocellular carcinoma, 470 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,460 an incredibly rare liver cancer. 471 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,060 The chances of being diagnosed with fibrolamellar 472 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:35,820 is 1 in 5 million. 473 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,820 At the time that I saw her, 474 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:41,620 she'd only just got out of hospital 475 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,100 from being in a coma for 33 days 476 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,640 after her liver tumour was removed. 477 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,820 And I remember just going to her house. 478 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,380 She was very switched-on 479 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:53,860 and she just wanted to know 480 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,140 everything that I knew 481 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:56,140 about PFAS. 482 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:57,580 And after I went home, 483 00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:58,820 she just kept going 484 00:24:58,920 --> 00:24:59,980 and researching 485 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,340 and speaking to people. 486 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,820 And there was just something about her. 487 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,340 I had no idea of how significant 488 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,120 that meeting was gonna be in the grand scheme of things. 489 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,820 She didn't have any fear about going up against 490 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,240 people who were more powerful than her. 491 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,140 We got involved with 3M back in 2005. 492 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,340 That's when these chemicals were discovered in the water 493 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,820 outside of their manufacturing plant in Minnesota by the state. 494 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,580 You know, we were asked to come in and help the community, 495 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,140 who was being exposed to these chemicals 496 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:42,500 in their drinking water. 497 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,060 Unfortunately, when we... when we started pursuing 498 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,780 the litigation in Minnesota, 499 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,980 one of the first things 3M did 500 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,620 was go into the local court 501 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,660 and get a blanket protective order. 502 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,900 They essentially were able to designate every single document 503 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,140 as confidential. 504 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,100 So despite the fact that we were able to see 505 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,380 these internal studies and these internal documents of 3M, 506 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,220 we weren't able to share those for years. 507 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,220 And, in fact, a lot of those documents 508 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,700 are only just now being made available to the public. 509 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,700 And some additional documents are just now coming out 510 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:20,860 through this litigation 511 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,960 over firefighting foam. 512 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,380 So this is the first one 513 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,380 that sort of shows the water treatment plant 514 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,180 and you can see over there in the end 515 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,980 it's got the four ion exchange vessels 516 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,780 that they've constructed so far. 517 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,900 Yeah, so our jurors can see an aerial shot 518 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,020 of what the whole treatment plant, 519 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:48,220 um, to remove PFAS...looks like. 520 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:50,540 So a few years back, 521 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:51,900 EPA empanelled a group 522 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,860 of some of the world's leading scientists and experts 523 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,000 in the area of PFAS contamination. 524 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,180 They concluded that PFOA and PFOS are likely to cause cancer 525 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,360 and other human health effects, in fact. 526 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,660 And they determined that "there is no dose 527 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,020 "below which either chemical is considered safe". 528 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,040 In other words, there is no safe level. 529 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,940 Now the City of Stuart is taking several manufacturers 530 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,980 of the foam to federal court, including corporate giant, 3M, 531 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,300 claiming 3M knew but didn't tell the city 532 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,060 about the toxic contamination risks. 533 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:34,820 Stuart was chosen to represent 534 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,100 hundreds of communities 535 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,100 across the country 536 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,380 who want 3M to pay 537 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:39,860 for their clean-up testing 538 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,460 and filtration. 539 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,980 You know, why should the victims here of this contamination, 540 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,900 the people that are drinking this in their homes every day, 541 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,820 be the ones stuck with those costs? 542 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,980 Why should the cities and the municipalities 543 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,140 that are now having to filter this out 544 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,060 have to be the ones to pay for this? 545 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,660 And it's just mind-blowing to me 546 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,060 that we're... ...having to go to trial 547 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,460 to get responsibility accepted for those costs. 548 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,420 With respect to firefighting foam specifically, 549 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,660 as you know, they... they... they argue that the "end user", 550 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,500 the firefighters who've been training with foam, 551 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,540 um, are at fault. 552 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,260 Um, and, of course, as you know, it's mostly used for training 553 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:23,820 as opposed to actual fires. 554 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,900 Um, so most of the contamination is from training 555 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,460 where they're not actually saving lives 556 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,560 in any way, shape or form. 557 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:33,980 So in this litigation 558 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,140 which is being seen by Judge Richard Gergel 559 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,700 in Charleston, South Carolina, in federal court, 560 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,340 all of the cases across the country 561 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,100 have been consolidated before him 562 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,340 and he's decided that the water provider cases should go first. 563 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,220 The city wants to be awarded 564 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:50,900 more than $100 million 565 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,700 to cover what has already been spent on projects 566 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,620 like a multimillion-dollar treatment plant 567 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,140 and filtration system, 568 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,780 keeping the levels of the chemicals 569 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,600 undetectable or below the health advisory limit. 570 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,940 The story that we put together 571 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,540 really started, um, years ago. 572 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,140 In the course of what we call discovery, 573 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,580 the defendants and 3M 574 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,180 and the other defendant companies, 575 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:17,500 manufacturers of PFAS, 576 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,020 were required by court order 577 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,300 to start producing their internal files, 578 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,100 anything that had and that was related to PFAS 579 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,900 or aqueous film forming foam. 580 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,940 And over the course of the next four years, 581 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,520 they produced about 37 million pages of documents. 582 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,060 And from that we were able to pick out those documents 583 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,700 that really told a story 584 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,820 and it really starts in 1975. 585 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,660 If I were to give it a name in this whole longer timeline, 586 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,420 this early part of the timeline, 587 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,860 I would call 'The Shit Hits the Fan - Part 1'. 588 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,760 A, B. A, B common mark. 589 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,280 This is, uh, so incredibly fucked and evil. 590 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,740 "In the summer of 1975, 591 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,260 "Dr Warren Guy, 592 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,980 "a toxicologist and professor at the University of Florida, 593 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,540 "calls 3M's corporate headquarters concerning research 594 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,660 "he and Dr Donald Taves, a toxicologist and professor, 595 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,220 "are planning to present at a symposium 596 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,280 "organised by the American Chemical Society. 597 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,420 "Dr Guy and Dr Taves have discovered the presence 598 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,260 "of an unidentified organic fluorine chemical compound 599 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,360 "in human blood..." 600 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,160 "..obtained from the blood banks in five US cities." 601 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,540 Imagine these two outside researchers 602 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,460 found this fingerprint on a crime scene 603 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,300 but they didn't know who to match it to. 604 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,900 They could tell some things about it. 605 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,380 They could tell it was 8-chain, 606 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,100 they could tell it was fluorinated, 607 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,820 and based on that, they knew that there was this company 608 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,020 up in Minnesota, 3M, they made chemicals like that. 609 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,500 They contacted 3M and asked them, 610 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,060 "Hey, we found this funny-looking compound 611 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,180 "that's not known in nature." 612 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,660 And this is the actual telephone memo 613 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,140 from that... of that call 614 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,300 on August 20, 1975. 615 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,140 And it begins, "Dr Guy called again 616 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,180 "to see if we had any further ideas 617 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,080 "as to the possible sources of the fluorocarbon." 618 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,480 Then they literally pled ignorance. 619 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,140 But the internal documents have since revealed 620 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,300 3M did its own analysis 621 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:54,820 and was able to confirm, 622 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,340 yes, this was 3M's stuff 623 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,980 that was being found in the general population's blood. 624 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,460 They had known internally 625 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,460 that what these two scientists had stumbled on 626 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,500 was actually PFOS, 627 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,900 which is the one particular PFAS 628 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,300 that is essentially unique to 3M. 629 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,780 At that point, 3M started looking at its own workers 630 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,140 to try to figure out, 631 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,580 "Is this getting into the blood of our workers 632 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,940 "who are working with these chemicals?" 633 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,980 Sure enough, 3M had found this stuff, this organic fluoride, 634 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,820 was getting in its own workers. 635 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,020 They notified one of their main customers 636 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,900 for these chemicals, DuPont, 637 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,780 who was buying PFOA. 638 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,380 DuPont went out and started testing its workers in 1978. 639 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,020 Sure enough, DuPont found organic fluoride 640 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,940 getting into its workers as well. 641 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,420 So by this point of time, in the late 1970s, 642 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,820 both 3M and DuPont knew these chemicals 643 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,180 were getting into general population's blood 644 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,720 and workers who were exposed. 645 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,180 Yeah, all hell broke loose. 646 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,180 They immediately started all these investigations. 647 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,420 For example, they started toxicology testing. 648 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,660 They went out and they got a bunch of mice, 649 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,900 rats, monkeys, guinea pigs, 650 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,660 and they did a whole slew of toxicology tests, 651 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,820 and the results were bad. 652 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,460 They were vomiting, there was liver necrosis, 653 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,260 haemorrhaging in their gastrointestinal tract, 654 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,620 tremors, convulsions. 655 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,420 "20 of the 28 rhesus monkeys in the study 656 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:36,380 "die as a result of their exposures to PFOS." 657 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,660 It sent shock waves within the company. 658 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,660 They said, "This chemical's now considered extremely toxic, 659 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,580 "more toxic than we ever realised." 660 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,340 And that, to me, is the evidence 661 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,180 that that's when they should have told the EPA. 662 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,420 But actually what they did was even worse than that. 663 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,540 They went out and they published a paper 664 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,220 in the journal 'Science', 665 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,260 which is the most prolific 666 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,220 and well-respected scientific journal in existence. 667 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,660 They published a paper saying that what Guy and Taves found 668 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,580 was not a man-made chemical at all, 669 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,300 that it was this naturally occurring compound, 670 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,860 which, of course, they knew was a lie. 671 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,060 "3M concludes that both PFOA and PFOS have, 672 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,140 "quote, 'the potential for widespread distribution 673 00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:19,500 "'in the environment,' end quote, 674 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,140 "because they, quote, 'persist in the environment', 675 00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:24,980 "thus 'forever chemicals', 676 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,780 "and that they are highly mobile in soils, 677 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,940 "and that therefore waterways 678 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,440 "would be their ultimate environmental sink." 679 00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:45,820 This was the main beach that was one of the main places 680 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,620 where the community caught fish and sent it to the market. 681 00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:49,900 That's the creek. 682 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,340 Right. 683 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,500 Oh, wow. 684 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,020 So, my understanding was 685 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,700 Mary's runs pretty much from the... the airfield 686 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,660 all the way down to the beach 687 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:00,940 carrying the contamination, is that right? 688 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:02,100 Yes. 689 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,260 How often would you come down growing up? 690 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,060 I was here practically every day. 691 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,340 - Yeah. - Yeah. 692 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,500 We not only learnt to fish and surf here, and swim, 693 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,820 we did a lot of beachcombing here as well 694 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:14,860 when we was kids. 695 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,860 So that was one of the activities 696 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,420 you do when you're living on the coast. 697 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,260 We, obviously, grew up right in Wreck Bay, 698 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,380 and the water was our favourite place to go. 699 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,480 We love the ocean. 700 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,420 Especially at, um, Summercloud, 701 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:39,660 swimming there, 702 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,260 we'd swim in the creek. 703 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:43,700 There was foam in the creek 704 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,940 and we would play with it. 705 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,040 We didn't know what it was. 706 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,420 So I'd just finished school before I turned 18. 707 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,780 And then I started getting, like, really bad headaches, 708 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,020 and it kind of just was constant. 709 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,700 And then I started to lose my balance a little bit. 710 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,140 My eyesight s... 711 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:11,740 Yeah, that started to get a bit blurry. 712 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,620 I think the third time in one week 713 00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:15,060 I went to the doctor's again. 714 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,460 And then she said, "I'm just gonna book you in for a scan 715 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,700 "on your head." 716 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,780 And that's when I met my surgeons. 717 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,420 And they came in and he said, 718 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,140 "You've got a tumour on your brain stem 719 00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:29,300 "and we need to remove it." 720 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,540 So they said, "It's a slow-growing tumour 721 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,820 "and there is a chance of recurrence, 722 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,540 "but it's also benign." 723 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,100 We didn't know anyone that had brain tumours, 724 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,100 so we'd never experienced, like, even knowing someone 725 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:46,940 having brain surgery or anything. 726 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,540 But I think it hit us harder the second time 727 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,620 when she had surgery, 728 00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:55,540 when we got told, "Oh, the tumour's come back." 729 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:56,820 It was daunting, 730 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,220 but I think I...always said 731 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,940 I would rather it happen to me than anyone else, 732 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,140 'cause I knew that I could do it. 733 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:07,860 And I'm like, "OK, just have to push through." 734 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,340 And then... 735 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:10,940 ...we found out about Jade, 736 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,420 which, that, I think, broke my heart the most. 737 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,520 Yeah. 738 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,900 Well, I was having migraines, 739 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,500 like, probably during the period 740 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,180 that she had her first tumour, 741 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,280 but then the symptoms got worse. 742 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,900 And then so me and Mum went in 743 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,260 and they were like, 744 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,640 "Oh, you have a massive brain tumour." 745 00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:37,940 Then they called Mum and Dad up for a meeting, 746 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:39,660 and they were like, "So, we found... 747 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,780 "..like, we seen the first tumour, 748 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,320 "but she actually has another one on the other side as well." 749 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,900 They were trying to connect it to Mum and Dad 750 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,540 to see if anything came up in their genes 751 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,540 that would connect to both of us, 752 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,980 but they found nothing. 753 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,940 Even when we've seen, like, different doctors and stuff 754 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,660 that I've seen, they're like, "Oh, where do you live?" 755 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:03,900 And I'm like, "Jervis Bay." 756 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,820 And they'll look at me again and be like, 757 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,020 "Oh, do you know about PFAS?" 758 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,420 I was 26 years old 759 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,200 when I was formally diagnosed with cervical cancer. 760 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:20,860 I caught it late, 761 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,300 so I was inoperable, 762 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,480 it had already went to my lymph nodes. 763 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,640 They said, "You might not be around by Christmas." 764 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,220 I started my treatment in 2015, 765 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,580 and by 2016, in February, 766 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,060 I was in remission. 767 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,920 So here I am, and... 768 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,160 Yeah, thank goodness you're still here, darling. 769 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,020 Dad's had a triple bypass. 770 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,060 - You know... - We've all had triple bypasses. 771 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,300 -All the... Yeah. - My brothers. 772 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,700 All the brothers, all heart problems. 773 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,540 Every one of youse have had a bypass... 774 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:04,860 Yeah. 775 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,820 ...that have lived in Wreck Bay. 776 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,920 So that's, like, 10. 10 of them. 777 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,340 My brother Rob, he's lived down here, 778 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:13,460 grown up down here - 779 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:14,940 heart problems. 780 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,420 My brother Baldy, he died of a heart attack. 781 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,900 And then my other brother, who's the same age as Rob, 782 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,660 lives in La Perouse - 783 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,300 no heart problems. 784 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:26,700 No health problems. 785 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,620 No health problems at all. 786 00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:30,720 It can't be a coincidence. 787 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,100 So how old were you 788 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,100 when you first started getting sick? 789 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,420 I had this lump here for years. 790 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,060 - Mm. - And I never took notice of it. 791 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:44,540 Yeah. 792 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,480 And I found out that I was sick with breast cancer. 793 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,460 There have been studied overseas 794 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,140 in places like Taiwan and Greenland 795 00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:56,580 that have linked PFAS exposure 796 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,580 to elevated rates of breast cancer. 797 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,700 And what experts have told me 798 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,460 is that in a community the size of Wreck Bay 799 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,100 you'd expect to be seeing about one breast cancer case 800 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:08,820 every five years, 801 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,420 or three in 15 years. 802 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,380 So it's been surprising 803 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,220 to have been given the names of 10 women in that village 804 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,020 with breast cancer. 805 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,700 Peggy, she was my granddaughter. 806 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,500 She was a strong woman. 807 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,740 She was gonna be the next matriarch of the family. 808 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,180 They used to think she was Naomi Campbell 809 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,980 when she'd walk around the streets 810 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:36,860 and people would turn their heads every time. 811 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:41,080 Peg was beautiful too. Beautiful spirit. 812 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,980 I've never, ever heard her complain. 813 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,780 'Cause she always wanted to be strong for everyone, you know? 814 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,480 Oh. 815 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,480 Oh, Peg. 816 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,080 I have my moments. 817 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,140 She calls out to me at times, 818 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:13,700 and I'm here by myself 819 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,900 and I'll hear this, "Nan!" if I'm a bit weepy, you know? 820 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,660 She snaps me out of it. 821 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,780 Lets me know she's alright. 822 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,220 We know we'll meet up again one day. 823 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,300 Did she wonder, sort of, her illnesses, 824 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,180 about the PFAS and... 825 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,860 Yeah, well, PFAS could have played a part in... 826 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,080 ...in Peggy's life. 827 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:45,980 Peggy, since she was a kid, loved oysters, 828 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,420 so she'd been eating oysters from this area 829 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,520 for a long time. 830 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,340 So every little spot around here, 831 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,580 Peggy knew where oysters were. 832 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,380 And oysters are a... what you call a filter feeder, 833 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,580 so they feed out of all the food nutrients 834 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:04,680 in the water. 835 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:07,500 And she loved the fish. 836 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,260 we do know, for sure, 837 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,940 human studies, not just animal studies, 838 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,320 that PFOS is renowned for raising cholesterol. 839 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,180 If it's not picked up, we can expect more arterial disease, 840 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,680 more kidney disease, strokes, heart attacks. 841 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,780 The other thing that PFOS is famous for 842 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,260 is its ability to immunosuppress, 843 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,300 to reduce people's immunity. 844 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,260 So immunosuppression in the '70s, '80s and '90s 845 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,620 could easily be causing cancers 846 00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:54,220 in the 2000s and the teens and the '20s. 847 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,700 So there's theoretical reasons why there would be a link 848 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,240 between this contamination and... 849 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,200 ...and what I believe to be a cancer cluster. 850 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,820 There isn't an ailment that they haven't tied to this. 851 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,620 I mean, childhood development, 852 00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:13,860 immune system response, 853 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,220 cancers, 854 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:16,900 thyroid disease. 855 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,540 And this was all similar 856 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,300 to what they saw back in the '70s 857 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:21,820 with those animal studies. 858 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,500 They saw these same effects in animals in the '70s 859 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,540 this was, um... that we're seeing now in people. 860 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:35,980 "The shocking news that a proprietary chemical 861 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:40,500 "made exclusively by 3M is toxic and present 862 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,700 "in the blood of the general population 863 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:47,140 "attracts the attention of 3M's highest-ranking executives, 864 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:50,140 "including CEO and chairman of the board 865 00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:52,240 "Mr Lewis Lehr. 866 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,420 "A May 26, 1978 memo confirms 867 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,180 "arrangements for a meeting at 9:30am, July 12 868 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,220 "in Mr Lehr's conference room. 869 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,640 "The subject - fluorochemicals in blood." 870 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,580 Well, of course he wants to know, 871 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,780 because his product is poisoning the general public 872 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:13,300 and the monkeys had died, 873 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,240 so I'm sure he wants to do the right thing. 874 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,260 So they knew they had an obligation to report. 875 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,380 So then the next question is, "Are we required to report? 876 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,980 "Does this rise to the level that we're supposed to report?" 877 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,620 "3M consulted two outside scientists, 878 00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:33,900 "Dr Jerry R. Mitchell and Dr Harold C. Hodge." 879 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:35,860 They referred to him internally, 880 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,100 in one of their internal documents as, quote, 881 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:39,620 "Dr Harold C. Hodge, 882 00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:41,420 "a world-renowned expert 883 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,420 "in fluorine and fluoride metabolism." 884 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,340 So he's not a nobody. 885 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,440 Good morning, Mr Gerber. How are you? 886 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,500 Good morning. I'm well, thank you. 887 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,320 Um, have you ever had your deposition taken before? 888 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:55,500 No, I have not. 889 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:56,500 OK. 890 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:57,780 Probably what's most important 891 00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,940 about Mr Gerber's deposition 892 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,460 is that he wasn't there as Mr Gerber. 893 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,820 He was there as what's called a corporate representative. 894 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:07,900 So, in law, you can say, 895 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,300 "Hey, dear company X, 896 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:10,940 "I want to know what the company knows 897 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:12,620 "about X, Y and Z." 898 00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:14,340 And the company is then obligated 899 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,580 to get someone prepared and knowledgeable on a topic 900 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,220 and then let you interview them. 901 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,340 And that's who they put up. They put up Mr Gerber. 902 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,220 "It should be determined 903 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,300 "if FC-807 or its metabolites 904 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,260 "are present in man." 905 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,860 Does that indicate to you that, at this point in time, 906 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,460 3M did not disclose to Dr Hodge 907 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,700 that they in fact had information 908 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,980 indicating that PFOS was "present in man"? 909 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,060 I...I guess I can't speak to the full scope 910 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,700 of what 3M disclosed to Dr Hodge. 911 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,800 Um... 912 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,140 But, yeah, I...I think that that's a reasonable reading 913 00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:52,900 of that sentence. 914 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,900 And let's read this last sentence. 915 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,060 Dr Hodge wanted the people who attended this meeting 916 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,060 to know that, "If the levels are high and widespread 917 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:02,620 "and the half-life is long, 918 00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:05,680 "we could have a serious problem." 919 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,100 If we could just, um, put the draft meeting minutes 920 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,260 next to the final meeting minutes. 921 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,740 So Dr Hodge wanted the company to know 922 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,380 and wanted the official meeting minutes to reflect 923 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,420 that if this chemical's in everyone's blood, 924 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,340 and if the half-life is long, 925 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,420 you have a "serious problem". 926 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,020 And that was removed from the official meeting minutes, 927 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,620 wasn't it, sir? 928 00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:30,380 I...I don't see that final statement 929 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,780 in... in the second copy of the meeting minutes. 930 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,660 Nobody would be that unscrupulous 931 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,620 to literally delete something. 932 00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,180 It's like... it's like Richard Nixon 933 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,500 and the, uh... you know, the missing minutes 934 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:51,980 from the tape. 935 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,260 "The day after the meeting with Dr Hodge, 936 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,420 "the same nine 3M employees travel on a 3M company plane 937 00:46:58,520 --> 00:46:59,780 "to Houston, Texas, 938 00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:02,380 "to meet with another external expert, 939 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,480 "this time, Dr Jerry R. Mitchell." 940 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,660 One of the explicit things that must always be reported 941 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,700 is cancer, fair? 942 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,420 Yeah, there's... there's a... a strong bias 943 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,020 towards reporting in those cases. 944 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:18,100 Got it. 945 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:19,860 Do me a favour - turn to page three. 946 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:25,380 The third comment he provides to these individuals at 3M. 947 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,700 "Some of the symptoms in animals 948 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,340 "from these 90-day studies 949 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,320 "are similar to those observed with carcinogens." 950 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,380 Now look at the final, and I want you to tell me 951 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,120 if that has been removed from the final meeting minutes. 952 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,660 I do see at the bottom of page two 953 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,540 and that top of page three 954 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,220 there are numbers 1 and 2, 955 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,320 there's not a number 3. 956 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,500 "The statement by Dr Mitchell 957 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,320 "is removed from the final draft of the meeting minutes." 958 00:47:58,160 --> 00:47:59,700 This world-renowned expert, 959 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:01,380 his conclusion 960 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,500 was completely deleted from the final draft. 961 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,740 It's really like, "Holy shit!" kind of. 962 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:09,340 It was our "Holy shit!" moment. 963 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,020 - Yeah. - Like, "People do this?!" 964 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,740 Arguably the most important sentence of the entire thing. 965 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,500 The CEO knew. You know, that's good enough for me. 966 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,100 This wasn't some obscure nerd in a corner. 967 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,380 This was the head of the company 968 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,480 was aware of this information. 969 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,360 Total and complete criminal... 970 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,000 ...behaviour. 971 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,060 Good morning, Mr Bacon. How are you this morning? 972 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:42,620 Not bad, and you? 973 00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:44,100 I'm pretty good. 974 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:45,540 I'm here to take your deposition. 975 00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,140 My name's Gary Douglas 976 00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:48,700 from the law firm Douglas and London. 977 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,300 So, and if I understand correctly, 978 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,780 you worked for 3M from 1968 to 2008, 979 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:55,780 is that correct? 980 00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:56,780 Yes. 981 00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,500 Dr Griffith shared with you 982 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,260 that Taves and Guy had found PFOS... 983 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:01,940 ...had been found in the blood 984 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,740 of non-occupationally exposed persons in the community. 985 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,180 He shared that with you 986 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,100 at this coffee meeting around the water cooler. 987 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,420 That's how you first heard about it, right? 988 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,700 That's the way I remember it, right. 989 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,580 We're sort of learning this in real time 990 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,180 as we're taking his deposition 991 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,140 because we had no internal documents 992 00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:22,100 reflecting these water cooler talks, 993 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,060 and I was thinking to myself, 994 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,020 "Should I ask him when?" 995 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,460 Do you remember when you had this discussion "over coffee"? 996 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:30,860 Let's put it that way. 997 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:32,660 I was literally thinking, 998 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,900 "Well, it had to have been much later on." 999 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,560 And he leans forward into the camera and says... 1000 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,900 Frank Griffith died in about 1980-something. 1001 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:44,740 I would assume it was before then. 1002 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:45,940 It was kind of shocking 1003 00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:47,980 in that how he was so candid about it, 1004 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,500 and his guard was down, you know? 1005 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,940 And I'm sure the lawyers who were not on camera 1006 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:55,500 were probably going like, 1007 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,260 "Oh, my God, what did he just say?" 1008 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,740 'Cause the company line has always been 1009 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,540 they did not know until 1998. 1010 00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:04,940 I think I put my microphone... 1011 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:06,620 - ...on mute. - Mute. 1012 00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:10,780 And I looked at Rebecca. I said, "Did I just hear that?" 1013 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:12,620 Like, "Are you kidding?" 1014 00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:15,740 They were talking about this so casually 1015 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,020 around the water cooler, over coffee, for decades. 1016 00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:20,940 And I think part of the reason it was so shocking 1017 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,860 is that deposition, I think, came after 1018 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:24,700 a number of other depositions 1019 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,660 where we had heard them basically saying that 1020 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,540 that information, they learned that right in 1998, 1021 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,420 maybe late 1997. 1022 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,540 So we were totally expecting him to take the company line, 1023 00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,260 indicate the same time line, and so when he said that, 1024 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:38,860 I think it really was kind of like, 1025 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,960 "Did I hear that right?" 1026 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:43,660 True or false? 1027 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,060 By 1980, 3M was in possession of information 1028 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,540 that PFOS was a bioaccumulative compound 1029 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,100 that was widespread 1030 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,940 in the blood of the general population, 1031 00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,580 and that it killed rhesus monkeys 1032 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:01,660 that were exposed to it. 1033 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,900 3M had all that information, decided not to disclose it 1034 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,560 at that time in 1980, correct? 1035 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,420 Yes, I...I've reviewed documents 1036 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,700 that, uh, you know, after those studies were conducted, 1037 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,580 uh, that information was reviewed 1038 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,020 against EPA's reporting criteria, 1039 00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,540 and, uh, the company made the determination 1040 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,140 that the information was not substantial risk information 1041 00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:25,240 under TSCA 8(e). 1042 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,460 3M knew that PFOS was persistent, 1043 00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,940 bioaccumulative and toxic. 1044 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,940 3M knew that it was coming from their products. 1045 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,740 They knew that they were the only company 1046 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:38,300 that made these chemicals. 1047 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,100 They knew they had an obligation under federal law 1048 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:42,660 to report such information, 1049 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,180 and yet they told nobody anything. 1050 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,320 They violated federal law. 1051 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,340 While this is taking place, 1052 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,980 they are increasing production of PFOS, 1053 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,820 or POSF, which is the compound 1054 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:27,980 that converts to PFOS in the environment 1055 00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:29,780 and in human blood. 1056 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:34,580 In the total grand history of 3M's production of PFOS, 1057 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:36,660 something like 90% of it 1058 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,460 was produced after they learned it was in everyone's blood, 1059 00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,180 after they learned it was toxic, 1060 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,400 after they learned it was... it killed these monkeys. 1061 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,260 There were companies and people 1062 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:52,620 that knew this was happening, 1063 00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:56,140 that knew the nature and extent of this threat, 1064 00:52:56,240 --> 00:52:57,740 but did it anyway, 1065 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,500 profited enormously for decades. 1066 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,300 And in the meantime, 1067 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,440 the entire world has been exposed. 1068 00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,020 Just to the right here, you'll see 1069 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,600 this is the signs that the Department of Defence put up. 1070 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,180 "Mary Creek is currently being tested for PFAS. 1071 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:30,380 "As a precaution, Mary Creek is closed to human use." 1072 00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,740 Well, this is one of our sacred sites. 1073 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,420 This is of great importance. 1074 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,460 As a kid, oh, we used to come up here 1075 00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,100 nearly every weekend, 1076 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,180 swimming in the... under the falls 1077 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,380 and bathing in the ponds. 1078 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,460 It's devastating. 1079 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,460 It's heart-wrenching. 1080 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,620 Tsss! 1081 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,500 We sing that song 1082 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,620 'cause that keeps us culturally connected 1083 00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:07,140 to the land and to the water, 1084 00:54:07,240 --> 00:54:10,080 to the animals, to the sounds. 1085 00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,740 And that's how we call out to our old people, 1086 00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:14,940 to our ancestors. 1087 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,500 Our fish have been poisoned. 1088 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,920 Our land's been poisoned and sick. 1089 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,220 If she's sick, we're sick. 1090 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,780 If she's sad, we're sad. 1091 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:31,860 If she's hurting, we're hurting. 1092 00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:43,820 This one here, 1093 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,320 this is a native sarsaparilla. 1094 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:48,980 And for us here in this area, 1095 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,180 this is probably the most important medicine 1096 00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:52,580 that we have here. 1097 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,840 All the stuff that's coming through the ground here... 1098 00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,220 ...is directly connected to all these special plants for us. 1099 00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:02,980 This medicine, the knowledge, 1100 00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,940 this is the sort of stuff that's irreplaceable. 1101 00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,040 What do we do? 1102 00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,620 When I first found out that it was contaminated, 1103 00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:13,720 like, I felt betrayed. 1104 00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:18,700 Especially when I found out where it came from, you know? 1105 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,500 It had come from the Defence Force, 1106 00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:22,800 who are here to serve and protect our people. 1107 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,460 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. 1108 00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:32,700 I'm the Deputy Secretary in the Department of Defence. 1109 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,060 We've had doctors 1110 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:35,540 travel from Darwin, 1111 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:36,940 Alice Springs and that, 1112 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:38,020 who work for 1113 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:39,140 the Aboriginal health. 1114 00:55:39,240 --> 00:55:41,240 They've come here to Wreck Bay. 1115 00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,220 They've never seen so much sickness 1116 00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,200 in one little tiny little place. 1117 00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:02,940 Youse haven't been consistent 1118 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:04,420 from the start. 1119 00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:05,940 And youse expect our community 1120 00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,260 to believe your stories that you come... 1121 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,620 You come here with your PowerPoint presentations 1122 00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:12,340 every time you come and talk to us. 1123 00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,340 To be honest with you, I'm done with this... this seminar 1124 00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:15,700 'cause we keep getting crap. 1125 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:17,220 - Come on, I'm going. - Just wait. 1126 00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,380 I'm out of here. I've got better things to do than listen to you. 1127 00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:22,140 Do you know what a sacred site is? 1128 00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:23,300 Deadset. 1129 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,400 You're trained to fill our heads with shit. 1130 00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:30,580 Each time the Department of Defence come down, 1131 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:32,860 they just kept going over the same old thing, 1132 00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:34,580 same old thing all the time. 1133 00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,540 Just seemed like they were trying to 1134 00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,100 brush something under the carpet. 1135 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,700 I just had a sense of feeling that they were up to something. 1136 00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,020 And I just got sick of it. 1137 00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,460 There are now thousands of families 1138 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:48,220 in communities around the country 1139 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,380 affected by an unfolding scandal 1140 00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:54,660 over chemical contamination from Defence Force bases. 1141 00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,340 Nationwide, 28 Defence sites 1142 00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,060 are caught up in the crisis. 1143 00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,260 The Australian Government, the Federal Government, 1144 00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,060 they knew they had a big problem 1145 00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,140 by 2000-2002, 1146 00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:06,420 no question about it. 1147 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:07,700 Our government knows 1148 00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:09,700 that our children are being exposed to chemicals 1149 00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,020 and ongoing poisoning and they're doing nothing. 1150 00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,180 There was this huge period of time 1151 00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,500 when people could have made decisions 1152 00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,660 that protected them and their children, 1153 00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:21,220 but that didn't happen 1154 00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,580 because government left them ignorant. 1155 00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:25,980 In 2015, Williamtown residents 1156 00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,100 were told that PFAS chemicals from firefighting foam 1157 00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,100 had leached into groundwater and onto their properties, 1158 00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:33,500 raising health fears 1159 00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:35,780 and rendering their homes worthless. 1160 00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,020 We've had to sue our own government 1161 00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:39,820 to get that justice that we deserve. 1162 00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:41,040 The Defence Department 1163 00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,220 has already settled claims by residents 1164 00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,220 from Williamtown in NSW, 1165 00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:46,300 Oakey in Queensland 1166 00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:47,300 and Katherine 1167 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:48,540 in the Northern Territory, 1168 00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:50,760 paying millions in compensation. 1169 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,180 I hear all this other stuff 1170 00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,220 about these class actions going on around Australia. 1171 00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,340 Why aren't we forming our class action? 1172 00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,020 What's going on with our class action, then? 1173 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,420 We were up until late looking up on the internet, 1174 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,880 and then that's when we found Shine Lawyers. 1175 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,880 Hello. 1176 00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,520 Hey, Josh, pretty good. 1177 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:36,800 Yep. 1178 00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,940 That's great news. That's what we want. 1179 00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,100 Got a lot of people down this way 1180 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,960 that are wanting some justice. 1181 00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:53,940 In a David and Goliath battle, 1182 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,900 the Wreck Bay community has teamed up with Shine Lawyers 1183 00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,340 to take class action against the Commonwealth of Australia. 1184 00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:01,860 The traditional owners 1185 00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:03,700 have just lodged a class action 1186 00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:08,180 for loss of culture due to the contamination of their land. 1187 00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,060 In our current Western justice system, 1188 00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,500 we're trying to figure out the loss of culture. 1189 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:15,060 What is that worth? 1190 00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,580 Um, and that is something which is just unprecedented 1191 00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,100 in our current court system 1192 00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,100 to try to figure out a way to do that. 1193 00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,380 The Commonwealth are gonna make us prove that 1194 00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,300 there is culture there, that they actually have culture. 1195 00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,140 Which seems ridiculous that we have to show that, but we do. 1196 00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,860 Then we have to show how that culture's actually been lost, 1197 00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,620 how they can't pass it down for future generations, 1198 00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,580 because that's our case. 1199 00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,100 Legally, it is a very challenging case. 1200 00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:43,740 There's no two ways about it. 1201 00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,360 It's very difficult. It's unprecedented in so many ways. 1202 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:54,340 -Hey, buddy. How are ya? - James. Good. 1203 00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:55,820 - Good to see you, mate. - Yeah, likewise. 1204 00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:57,620 Come inside. I'll introduce you to Mum and Dad. 1205 00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,720 Excellent. 1206 01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,540 Do you, um... did you grow up eating bush foods and... 1207 01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:05,700 Yes. 1208 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:07,340 ...and going to the bush for bush medicine? 1209 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:08,820 - Yes, we did. - Yeah. 1210 01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:10,740 Like, if we had boils and that, 1211 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:12,820 we used the ribgrass for the boils 1212 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,420 and inkweed for our skin 1213 01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,340 and bathed in the inkweed. 1214 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,700 How does it make you feel when part of your culture now, 1215 01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,080 it can't be passed on in some ways? 1216 01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:26,300 Yeah. 1217 01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,660 In many ways, it can't. 1218 01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:33,820 We've lost a lot. 1219 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,140 The effect of the contamination on them, 1220 01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:47,180 it's been, um, really sad to hear story after story 1221 01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,900 of people that have lived in this area for generations. 1222 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,000 They're heartbroken. 1223 01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,020 Quite often in First Nations matters, 1224 01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:58,780 and Wreck Bay is no exception, 1225 01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,140 you have these preservation of evidence hearings 1226 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:02,460 before trial 1227 01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:04,460 because trial could be two, three years away. 1228 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:06,780 And, you know, sad to say, 1229 01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:08,500 but there'll be many people in Wreck Bay 1230 01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:09,980 that won't make two to three years. 1231 01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,620 Vida's an elder in the community 1232 01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:18,460 and her family have been there forever, 1233 01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,220 and Vida is very unwell. 1234 01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:23,520 She's desperate to tell her story to the Commonwealth. 1235 01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,020 - Hello. -Hello. 1236 01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:29,500 This is William. 1237 01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:31,300 - Pleasure to meet you, William. -The barrister. 1238 01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,300 Lovely to meet you. 1239 01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,020 I'm the senior barrister on the case, 1240 01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,820 so I'm gonna be the one that's sitting in the court tomorrow. 1241 01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,260 Tell me what this area is. 1242 01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,780 That's the creek at Summercloud just down here. 1243 01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,140 We used to swim there from daylight till dark. 1244 01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,380 All that foam that used to come down, 1245 01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,700 we didn't understand what it was all about, did we? 1246 01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:55,980 We used to think it was wonderful, you know, 1247 01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:58,980 jumping up and down splashing the water and... 1248 01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,280 -Making foam. - ...all this foam. 1249 01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,140 It's gonna be like a proper court hearing 1250 01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:09,780 as they have it in our system. 1251 01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,380 The judge will be wearing robes. 1252 01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,900 - He's insisted upon that. - Yeah. 1253 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,700 - So I'll be wearing robes too. -Yeah, yeah. 1254 01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:18,380 As will my junior, um... 1255 01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,600 - And I have to wear robes too? 1256 01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,780 You'd probably look better in them than I do. 1257 01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,020 I didn't know it was gonna turn out like this, you know, 1258 01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:36,820 for me to be chosen to get up and speak in a courtroom 1259 01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,260 in front of the High Court judge. 1260 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,940 I don't want to give that impression of being a radical. 1261 01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,480 I just want to be me, you know? 1262 01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:54,260 Get up! 1263 01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:57,920 Being the clown. 1264 01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:03,980 Oh, thank you. 1265 01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,560 It's what I need - a bit of a kick. 1266 01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:18,100 This ochre I'm putting on me, the men's ochre, is red ochre. 1267 01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:20,240 And what it does... 1268 01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,460 ...it gives me permission 1269 01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,420 to act on behalf 1270 01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,180 of all our clan, 1271 01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,160 my clan that come from this country here. 1272 01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,520 I'm gonna put some ochre on Mum. 1273 01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:42,860 This ochre comes from country. 1274 01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,120 It connects us to our old people. 1275 01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:00,900 I am proud of Mum. 1276 01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,660 Mum had said yesterday that she's tired, 1277 01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:05,940 but she's happy that she's getting to share 1278 01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:07,420 her side of the story 1279 01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:10,520 and, you know, a lot of people have not made it this far. 1280 01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,420 I want to make sure I've got your whole story. 1281 01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:24,020 This is your opportunity to tell your story about everything 1282 01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:28,220 related to what you say 1283 01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:31,600 you suffered through this contamination. 1284 01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:45,780 We're still two months out for the trial to begin 1285 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:47,880 and it's gonna be a long trial. 1286 01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,180 And right now, I think we're still far enough out 1287 01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,780 that I think we're just all sort of trying to remain calm 1288 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:57,260 and not, you know, get too... too overly stressed too soon 1289 01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:58,780 'cause it's a long road ahead, right? 1290 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,140 There's always a lot of pressure, 1291 01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,260 but, you know, that's the job. 1292 01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,340 They didn't enlist me. I volunteered. 1293 01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:08,300 So, yeah, there's definitely pressure. 1294 01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:13,900 I can't think of an environmental case 1295 01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:15,980 that is as pervasive as this one 1296 01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,040 and as urgent for our own health and safety. 1297 01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:24,060 And this is where we can level the playing field 1298 01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,820 between the average Joe and giant corporations. 1299 01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,300 Like, in this case, we're talking about 3M. 1300 01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:30,940 They have tremendous resources. 1301 01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:33,580 And this is a place, a courtroom, 1302 01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,200 where we can level the playing field. 1303 01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,300 They pled their ignorance. They didn't reveal it. 1304 01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:45,020 But within the confines in the... of private offices, 1305 01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:47,300 they spoke about it casually. 1306 01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,180 And I guess that was the mentality back then, 1307 01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,980 that if you can get away with it, you get away with it, 1308 01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:55,620 until, um, the 1990s. 1309 01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:01,980 The person at 3M 1310 01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:03,940 who was in charge of monitoring worker blood - 1311 01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:05,540 because they were worried about their workers 1312 01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:07,060 who would work with it, 1313 01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,100 those folks had higher levels of it in their blood 1314 01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:10,740 because they were working with it - 1315 01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:14,740 and he was sort of overwhelmed with his job. 1316 01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:16,940 Um... 1317 01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:18,500 His name is Dale Bacon 1318 01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:21,860 and he'd been with the company for about 40 years. 1319 01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:24,220 This is where it gets Keystone Kop-ish. 1320 01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,020 He went and hired a company, um, 1321 01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:31,060 that was known not for measuring contaminants 1322 01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:33,140 or compounds in human blood, 1323 01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:36,060 but for measuring, um, 1324 01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,940 compounds in racehorses. 1325 01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:41,020 We always colloquially 1326 01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:42,740 called him 'Horse Track Jack'. 1327 01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,260 He's famous for catching doping horses, 1328 01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,580 you know, like, horses that are being fed 1329 01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:49,340 medicines they're not supposed to 1330 01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,440 to make them run faster in horse races. 1331 01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:55,660 It would be funny if it wasn't so serious. 1332 01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,060 So Dr Henion was helping 3M 1333 01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:04,420 in its program of testing its workers for PFOS in their blood. 1334 01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,380 What he didn't contemplate 1335 01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,500 was that Dr Henion would do good work. 1336 01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:13,020 And what you do when you are gonna test 1337 01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,340 the levels of PFOS in the worker blood 1338 01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:17,860 is look for what we call blanks 1339 01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:19,060 to compare it to. 1340 01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:21,780 You got to find blood from people 1341 01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:24,620 who are not likely to have been exposed, non-workers. 1342 01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:26,820 And he, of course, is startled to find 1343 01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:30,680 that there's PFOS in every one of the samples that he took. 1344 01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:35,900 He didn't just sit right on his report. 1345 01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:37,580 He picked up the phone. 1346 01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:39,780 And Dr Bacon talked about this in his deposition - 1347 01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:43,620 he received the phone call from Dr Henion 1348 01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:45,220 because it was urgent. 1349 01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:47,100 "Hey, buddy, I'm finding 1350 01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:50,280 "your company's chemical in everybody's blood." 1351 01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:55,340 He calls with startling news 1352 01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:59,580 because he was finding quantifiable levels of PFOS 1353 01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:02,820 not just in the worker blood that you sent for analysis, 1354 01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:05,260 but in blood of non-3M-workers 1355 01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:10,980 he obtained on his own from Red Cross-pooled blood, 1356 01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,380 the blood bank at the Red Cross, correct? 1357 01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:16,360 That's, uh... I believe so. Yes. 1358 01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:22,900 Some of the lawyers within 3M, 1359 01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:24,940 they go to their head toxicologist, 1360 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:26,900 this guy Dr John Butenhoff, 1361 01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:30,380 and they say, "OK, well, how much is in everyone's blood?" 1362 01:08:30,480 --> 01:08:32,260 And he pulled up the data 1363 01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:34,220 and he said, "There's about 30 parts per billion. 1364 01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:36,500 "That's the average amount in Americans' blood." 1365 01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:38,300 And they go, "OK, what's the safe amount?" 1366 01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:40,460 He goes, "Well, hang on. Let me do some calculations," 1367 01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,460 And he used data that they had from the '70s, 1368 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:45,020 those monkey studies, 1369 01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,860 and calculated that a safe level, in his expert opinion, 1370 01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,460 was about 1 part per billion, 1371 01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,380 meaning the average American 1372 01:08:52,480 --> 01:08:57,140 had 30 times - 3,000% - more PFOS in their blood 1373 01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:59,740 than what their head toxicologist said was safe. 1374 01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,500 There was another document that we found, 1375 01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:07,340 which was a draft manuscript, 1998. 1376 01:09:07,440 --> 01:09:10,260 There was a note, a curious note, that we found on it. 1377 01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:12,980 It's obviously a Post-it that says, 1378 01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:17,100 "John, now that the - quote - lid is off, 1379 01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:19,660 "Kris would like to get this paper out. 1380 01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:21,060 "Any problem?" 1381 01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:22,340 We never understood that. 1382 01:09:22,440 --> 01:09:24,140 "The lid is off? The lid is off what?" 1383 01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:27,420 And I remember I was riding in my car 1384 01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:29,460 and I got a call from Rob Bilott 1385 01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:31,960 and he said, "Gary... 1386 01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:36,020 "..don't forget to use the document 1387 01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:37,780 "about 'the lid is off'," 1388 01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,900 and I said, "Rob, what are you talking about?" 1389 01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,580 And he said, "You know, the one with the Post-it 1390 01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:46,580 "that says 'Now that the lid is off, it's OK to publish'," 1391 01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:49,620 and that... it hit me. 1392 01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:51,140 "I get it now! 1393 01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:54,300 "That's what... that's where that piece of the puzzle fits." 1394 01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:56,260 It's just a consciousness of what they were doing. 1395 01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:57,380 Mm-hm, yeah. 1396 01:09:57,480 --> 01:09:59,420 It wasn't, "Oh, my God! 1397 01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,420 "I can't believe that our product is in everyone's blood! 1398 01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:03,900 "What should we do?" 1399 01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,380 "Now that the lid is off," suggests, you know, a cover-up. 1400 01:10:07,480 --> 01:10:08,860 "Gee, the lid is off. 1401 01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:10,460 "I guess we gotta come clean now." 1402 01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:13,260 And that's when they decided to finally tell the EPA 1403 01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:15,100 what they've known for 23 years - 1404 01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:17,200 that it was in everyone's blood. 1405 01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:23,740 It was in May of 1998 they told the EPA, 1406 01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,300 and promptly after that, 1407 01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:28,740 the EPA said, "OK, well, you're out of the business. 1408 01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,460 "You can't make this anymore." 1409 01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:32,260 It took them four years to do it 1410 01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:34,500 and during that four years, they increased production, 1411 01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,220 during that four years, they sent letters to the customers 1412 01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:40,500 encouraging them to buy more before they quit selling it. 1413 01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:41,980 It was like a going-out-of-business sale. 1414 01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,120 It wasn't like, "Oh, no, this is so bad." 1415 01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:47,700 Do you solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give 1416 01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,260 to be the truth, the full truth and nothing but the truth? 1417 01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:51,660 Yes, I do. 1418 01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:52,980 That deposition 1419 01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:55,740 was the very first deposition we took in the case 1420 01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,380 and we were so startled 1421 01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:00,660 by how well that deposition went 1422 01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:03,580 and how honest he was and how forthright he was 1423 01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,300 and I think it was because it was over Zoom. 1424 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:08,220 It was because he didn't have his lawyers 1425 01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:11,020 there with him, you know, at the conference table. 1426 01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:12,500 He was in his home. 1427 01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:14,740 I think he was in his kitchen, at his home, 1428 01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:17,740 and was just being frank and honest with us and it was a... 1429 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:21,200 You know... you know, the results speak for themselves. 1430 01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,420 And in each and every one of these media 1431 01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,180 all around the world, 1432 01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:29,020 in Dr Butenhoff's opinion, 1433 01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:30,980 the source of PFOS 1434 01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:33,820 is more likely than not 3M, correct? 1435 01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:35,500 Thank you for the logo. 1436 01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:37,580 Uh, yes, I mean, I... 1437 01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:41,220 Other than the fact that there might be some manufacturing, 1438 01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:46,180 I think that more likely than not the source is 3M, yes. 1439 01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:47,900 He basically acknowledged 1440 01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:51,500 that if you find a molecule of PFOS anywhere on planet Earth, 1441 01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:53,100 3M made it. 1442 01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:55,780 Now, we've known that. We know we can prove it. 1443 01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:59,580 But just to have a head scientist within the company 1444 01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:01,380 just admit it in black-and-white 1445 01:12:01,480 --> 01:12:04,140 and even use the legal buzzwords "more likely than not", 1446 01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,880 that's the standard of proof we have here in the States. 1447 01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:29,660 So, Wreck Bay, 1448 01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,700 it's an Aboriginal community of about 400 people 1449 01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:34,260 and it's sort of nestled 1450 01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:37,260 within this national park at Jervis Bay. 1451 01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:39,140 There's sort of as I see it... 1452 01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:40,860 And, you know, you guys might think differently, 1453 01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:43,060 but there's sort of three main arcs to the story. 1454 01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:45,660 So there's this issue of cultural loss 1455 01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:50,380 and then health seems to be a really big issue down there 1456 01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:52,340 and then there's sort of these issues 1457 01:12:52,440 --> 01:12:54,540 of how much did Defence know, 1458 01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:56,340 should things have been done differently? 1459 01:12:56,440 --> 01:12:59,300 It's the incidence of health impacts you're talking about 1460 01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:02,460 above the standard norms you'd be expecting to see 1461 01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:06,500 in a community of this size of those diseases? 1462 01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,020 I managed to find one data source 1463 01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:11,820 that looks at rates of premature death. 1464 01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:15,060 Looking at Wreck Bay comparatively, 1465 01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:17,140 it had one of the highest rates 1466 01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:19,100 of years of life lost prematurely 1467 01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:20,580 in the whole of Australia 1468 01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:22,780 and in some years, it had the highest rate. 1469 01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:26,140 Who is trying to stop you telling this story? 1470 01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:28,940 I can't imagine that the Department of Defence 1471 01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:30,660 will want me to tell this story. 1472 01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:33,260 I've heard sort of anecdotally they weren't very happy 1473 01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:36,060 that I was moving on to start looking at Wreck Bay. 1474 01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:38,660 - Too bad. -Mmm. 1475 01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:48,040 Thank you. 1476 01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:53,100 We've come to the offices 1477 01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:55,980 of the National Archives of Australia 1478 01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:59,260 and it basically is this giant repository 1479 01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:04,240 of every government document that was created prior to 2002. 1480 01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,500 The Australian Government got the letter from 3M in 2000 1481 01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:13,140 to say that, "We're going to stop making this product," 1482 01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:16,660 but that doesn't mean that was the first they ever knew 1483 01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:18,380 about the firefighting foam 1484 01:14:18,480 --> 01:14:20,680 being hazardous or being dangerous. 1485 01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:23,060 There's thousands of pages 1486 01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:24,780 that are all irrelevant to what we're doing, 1487 01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:26,580 so it's quite difficult, 1488 01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:29,700 but I just know that if you check everything, 1489 01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:31,940 you can potentially find that bit of gold 1490 01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:33,780 or that smoking gun that you've been looking for 1491 01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:35,920 that can change the whole game. 1492 01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:54,980 So I'm in the last bundle of documents. 1493 01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:57,180 I've spent three days here 1494 01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:00,420 and, sure enough, in the last page of the last bundle 1495 01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,000 is an extraordinary document. 1496 01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:08,100 So this document is from November 1981. 1497 01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:10,940 "Currently, liquid waste containing AFFF 1498 01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:12,940 "from the firefighting training exercises 1499 01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:14,420 "are allowed to discharge 1500 01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,260 "over the surface of the adjacent land. 1501 01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:20,100 "The wastes have penetrated a considerable distance 1502 01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:21,660 "and have almost reached 1503 01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:24,340 "the Aboriginal settlement at Mary Bay. 1504 01:15:24,440 --> 01:15:25,860 "For environmental reasons, 1505 01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:30,380 "this situation is unacceptable and should be discontinued." 1506 01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:33,480 So they knew in 1981... 1507 01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:40,660 ...that the foam was in the water, escaping off the base 1508 01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:44,440 and they knew it was environmentally unacceptable. 1509 01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:49,740 This has to be the most explosive information 1510 01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:54,280 that I've found in terms of the PFAS issue in Australia. 1511 01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:58,780 And you think of the extent of the environmental devastation 1512 01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:01,220 that's been caused over the whole country 1513 01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:03,400 that could have been avoided. 1514 01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:08,100 They knew when they hosed all that PFAS chemical 1515 01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:10,660 off down into the bush 1516 01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:13,500 that was gonna go straight down into our... 1517 01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,820 ...if not our village, through all our sacred sites 1518 01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:22,460 and into the ocean where we hunted and gathered every day 1519 01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:26,220 and that was gonna destroy our community. 1520 01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:28,320 They knew that. 1521 01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:33,460 When I got these documents, I went back over 1522 01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:36,420 and looked at what Defence officials had actually said 1523 01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:38,980 when they were questioned about these kind of issues. 1524 01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:41,220 And so the former deputy secretary 1525 01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:42,780 of the Department of Defence 1526 01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:44,820 said in the early 2000s, 1527 01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:46,460 "There was no evidence that this product 1528 01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:47,940 "was particularly dangerous 1529 01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:50,460 "either to the environment or to human health. 1530 01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:53,060 "I don't think we appreciated in 2004 1531 01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:55,300 "that this contaminant was leaving Defence properties." 1532 01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:58,060 Those documents directly contradict that. 1533 01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:01,460 You can only assume he's been misinformed. 1534 01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,220 It would appear from what you're telling me 1535 01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:04,980 that there has been some level of concern 1536 01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,060 within the Australian Government since the early 1980s 1537 01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,740 about the danger of this stuff getting into a water supply 1538 01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:13,460 and nothing's been done about it. 1539 01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:15,560 Yep. 1540 01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:32,140 The traditional owners of Wreck Bay land 1541 01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:34,900 have reached a $22 million settlement 1542 01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:36,980 of their PFAS contamination class action 1543 01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:38,780 against the Commonwealth of Australia. 1544 01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:41,740 While this is a victory for this First Nations group, 1545 01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,940 the Wreck Bay community has to grapple with the impacts 1546 01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:47,300 of PFAS contamination for years to come. 1547 01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:48,540 The monetary compensation 1548 01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:50,140 that comes out of the Western legal system 1549 01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:52,020 isn't going to be enough to compensate 1550 01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:54,020 for that breaking of the connection to the land 1551 01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:55,500 and the cultural loss, 1552 01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:58,360 but we had to grapple with those issues as best as we could. 1553 01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:10,140 I'm a bit concerned that, to a lot of people, 1554 01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:12,620 that's not gonna feel like enough 1555 01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:15,620 to compensate for the destruction 1556 01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:17,660 that PFAS has caused to their culture. 1557 01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:21,260 There will be an opportunity for people to object, 1558 01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:24,980 so it will be very interesting to see how that will play out 1559 01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:26,700 and what sort of reaction 1560 01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:28,780 the judge will have to those objections. 1561 01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:36,540 We're a united community 1562 01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:38,260 so we're gonna keep on fighting this. 1563 01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:39,740 We're gonna come together 1564 01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:41,940 and we're gonna show this Department of Defence, 1565 01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:44,380 this entity that's so powerful, 1566 01:18:44,480 --> 01:18:46,720 that we're powerful too. 1567 01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:03,780 I have read the objections, 1568 01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:05,740 but if anyone does wish to speak, 1569 01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:08,220 then they're of course free to do so. 1570 01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:10,380 We are determined to expose 1571 01:20:10,480 --> 01:20:12,300 and put a stop to the callous government's 1572 01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:14,340 past and present use of poison 1573 01:20:14,440 --> 01:20:18,380 sprayed in the form of the grim reaper PFAS. 1574 01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:20,140 We can't take our children 1575 01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:23,060 and our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren 1576 01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:25,800 to parts of the land that have been affected. 1577 01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:30,380 We have lost an integral part of our identity, 1578 01:20:30,480 --> 01:20:34,140 our sense of belonging, our connection to our country, 1579 01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:36,900 the waterways, the lands, the skies 1580 01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:39,880 and the people who walked this land before us. 1581 01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:42,500 A thousand years from now, 1582 01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:45,100 our children's children's children 1583 01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:50,100 are gonna know on 19 June, 2023, 1584 01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:52,580 that a small contingency of our community 1585 01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:56,780 have stood tall against the Department of Defence 1586 01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,840 to try and ensure their futures. 1587 01:21:06,440 --> 01:21:07,980 This is a very 1588 01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:10,660 catastrophic thing that's happened 1589 01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:12,140 and the question here for me 1590 01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:14,140 is are you going to get more money 1591 01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:16,500 running this case to a conclusion 1592 01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,060 or is a better outcome 1593 01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:21,620 taking the money that's on offer now 1594 01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:23,300 which has been negotiated 1595 01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:25,920 and which the lawyers think is fair and reasonable? 1596 01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:40,980 So, unfortunately, the judge 1597 01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:44,620 agreed with the settlement offer today of 22 million 1598 01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:46,180 and siding with the Commonwealth, 1599 01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:49,220 that that's a fair and just settlement. 1600 01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:52,200 - So he says. - So he says. 1601 01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:26,140 A settlement could be reached this month 1602 01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:28,460 in a court case involving a corporate giant 1603 01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:29,940 in the City of Stuart. 1604 01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:31,860 A lawsuit claims that, for decades, 1605 01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:33,740 a toxic forever chemical 1606 01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:36,060 tied to health issues, including cancer, 1607 01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:39,020 was pouring into the city's groundwater and drinking water. 1608 01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:41,380 And now the city is the face of a national fight 1609 01:22:41,480 --> 01:22:43,780 to have the manufacturer pay for the clean-up 1610 01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:46,580 that hundreds of communities have to tackle. 1611 01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:49,620 And if we can prove the City of Stuart 1612 01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:52,300 is entitled to be compensated, then what does that say 1613 01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:54,540 about what New York City is entitled to 1614 01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:56,020 or cities like Miami 1615 01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:58,860 who happens to be very heavily contaminated? 1616 01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:01,320 So that's what this first case is about. 1617 01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:06,500 For me, it's sort of, I guess, the pinnacle of my career. 1618 01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:08,660 I'm getting a little too old for this, 1619 01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,860 but I can't see anything that's more important 1620 01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:15,460 than seeing this through and seeing that justice is done 1621 01:23:15,560 --> 01:23:18,740 and the parties responsible for contaminating our planet 1622 01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:20,840 are held responsible. 1623 01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:36,660 Our anticipation is that we will be 1624 01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:38,540 picking a jury starting this morning 1625 01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:42,460 and be here for at least five weeks. 1626 01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:47,200 We have been in the final laps of a very long marathon. 1627 01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:53,260 OK, great. Here we go. 1628 01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:57,540 And we were literally at the proverbial courthouse steps 1629 01:23:57,640 --> 01:24:00,780 when we were told that there was something in the works. 1630 01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:26,460 I guess we all thought 1631 01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:29,020 we'd be in the middle of jury selection right now 1632 01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:32,100 and I know everybody has that bittersweet feeling. 1633 01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:36,940 We've all been working so hard and, uh, we were ready. 1634 01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:39,100 You know, this is what this case is all about 1635 01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:41,300 and, you know, this was one of the demonstratives 1636 01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:42,780 who we were gonna use. 1637 01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:45,020 I was gonna say to our jurors 1638 01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:49,540 that they are looking at... an image, 1639 01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:51,900 a model of a molecule, 1640 01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:53,620 a speck of matter 1641 01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:57,380 that neither God nor nature brought into this world 1642 01:24:57,480 --> 01:24:59,460 and this molecule was man-made 1643 01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:02,140 and man-made by one company and one company alone, 1644 01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:03,820 the 3M company. 1645 01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:06,740 And I know it's frustrating for everybody 1646 01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:09,940 that we're unable to tell that story. 1647 01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:13,340 I know that you're all conscientious lawyers, 1648 01:25:13,440 --> 01:25:14,980 environmental lawyers 1649 01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:17,700 and I know that each and every one of you here today 1650 01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,140 worked hard to bring that story 1651 01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:22,700 and I want to thank you all for your hard work. 1652 01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:24,740 The reason that we're all in this room here today 1653 01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:27,860 and the reason that 3M ran from the court is because of us. 1654 01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:29,620 They weren't afraid of the EPA. 1655 01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:32,220 They weren't afraid of lying to regulators around the world 1656 01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:34,060 or lying to the military. 1657 01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:37,420 They were willing to do anything to protect their pocketbook 1658 01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:38,900 and the fact is is that 1659 01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:40,860 this is what made them worried about that. 1660 01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:42,420 It was a team effort 1661 01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:45,340 and I couldn't be prouder to be part of it, so thank you all. 1662 01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:52,060 There's a bit of a shock value going on right now. 1663 01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:54,580 We've been obviously working for years to put it together, 1664 01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:58,220 so it was sort of the moment of getting that opportunity. 1665 01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:01,400 It was gonna be the big... sort of the big day. 1666 01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:07,580 Even though someone can be given monetary value 1667 01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:11,140 to help address whatever problem they're claiming or alleging, 1668 01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:13,300 it doesn't totally make you feel 1669 01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:15,300 like justice was done all the time 1670 01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:17,180 if you don't get the actual... 1671 01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:19,740 ...get to put the actual conduct on trial. 1672 01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:35,940 They got away with it. 1673 01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:37,860 We didn't get to tell the story. 1674 01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:41,260 I almost feel, like, dirty. It's like hush money. 1675 01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:44,380 But I have an obligation to our clients. 1676 01:26:44,480 --> 01:26:46,820 I think their decision to settle 1677 01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:48,660 it has a lot to do with the fact 1678 01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:53,500 that they really were afraid of even an opening statement 1679 01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:57,560 and their dirty laundry was about to be aired in a big way. 1680 01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:03,340 We know 3M will, to their last breath, 1681 01:27:03,440 --> 01:27:06,140 take the position that PFAS is harmless 1682 01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:09,880 at the levels found in blood and in the environment. 1683 01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:12,860 But even still, 1684 01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:15,200 people have a right to know it's in them. 1685 01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:38,700 Right now we're dealing with, 1686 01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:41,540 really, global contamination problems. 1687 01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:43,940 These PFAS chemicals have been used 1688 01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:46,860 in such an incredible array of products 1689 01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:49,160 over the last 70 to 80 years. 1690 01:27:50,160 --> 01:27:52,260 Stain-resistant waterproof clothing, 1691 01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:56,420 carpeting, fast-food wrappers and packaging, cosmetics, 1692 01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:59,140 things that are waterproof, things that are greaseproof, 1693 01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:01,220 things that are non-stick. 1694 01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:04,780 These chemicals have been used in so many different products, 1695 01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:07,260 you're really dealing with global contamination 1696 01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:09,920 on an unprecedented scale. 1697 01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:14,620 It's in the water. It's in the air. 1698 01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:16,620 It's in the food. 1699 01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:18,100 It's everywhere. 1700 01:28:18,200 --> 01:28:19,580 There's nothing you can do 1701 01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:21,060 without coming into contact with it. 1702 01:28:21,160 --> 01:28:24,140 It's... it's intense, man. It's huge. 1703 01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:43,460 My name is Amara Strande 1704 01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:45,100 I'm 20 years old. 1705 01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:48,340 And at the age of 15, I was diagnosed 1706 01:28:48,440 --> 01:28:52,100 with stage IV fibrolamellar hepatocellular carcinoma. 1707 01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:56,420 Growing up, I lived in the 3M plume 1708 01:28:56,520 --> 01:28:58,740 and attended Tartan Senior High School 1709 01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:01,060 where I met many classmates 1710 01:29:01,160 --> 01:29:03,300 that were also directly affected by cancer 1711 01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:05,820 as a result of what we now understand 1712 01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:08,660 these chemicals to be - PFAS. 1713 01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:10,780 I never realised that meeting with her 1714 01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:12,860 would have this ripple effect. 1715 01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:15,860 She went to the lawmakers in Minnesota 1716 01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:19,460 and she tried to convince them to ban PFAS 1717 01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:21,100 and it worked. 1718 01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:25,620 Corporations must stop the production of these toxins 1719 01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:27,140 and be held accountable 1720 01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:29,940 and pay for the damage they've done. 1721 01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:35,100 We need stricter regulations on the use of PFAS chemicals 1722 01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:36,980 and more research to be done 1723 01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:40,140 on the long-term effects of exposure. 1724 01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:43,580 We also need more education for the public... 1725 01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:49,700 This spring, she was asked to speak truth to power 1726 01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:53,100 by testifying before legislative committees 1727 01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:55,460 about her experience of having cancer 1728 01:29:55,560 --> 01:29:59,260 to give reasons why the use of forever chemicals 1729 01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:03,140 should be banned or greatly reduced in products. 1730 01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:06,740 We have been told that her testimonies 1731 01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:10,760 were key in getting the legislation passed. 1732 01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:13,300 It's called Amara's Law, 1733 01:30:13,400 --> 01:30:15,740 and Minnesota has become the first place in the world 1734 01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:18,140 to enact laws to ban PFAS. 1735 01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:21,540 And that's not just banning, like, one or two kinds of PFAS. 1736 01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:24,460 They're trying to eliminate PFAS altogether there. 1737 01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:45,860 It's really a harrowing thing to write these stories 1738 01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:49,820 and I don't think it ever leaves you when you see people 1739 01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:52,100 and you're sitting and talking to them one day 1740 01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:55,500 and you see the fear and you see the questions that they have 1741 01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:57,600 and then they're gone. 1742 01:31:08,240 --> 01:31:11,420 I hope people that read the Wreck Bay stories, 1743 01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:14,460 that they can connect to the love 1744 01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:16,140 that the Wreck Bay people have 1745 01:31:16,240 --> 01:31:18,400 for their land and for their culture... 1746 01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:22,500 ...because unless you can feel that and understand, 1747 01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:25,060 you can't really understand what they've lost 1748 01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:27,100 and you can't understand the devastation 1749 01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:29,200 that these chemicals have caused. 1750 01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:31,460 I hope it lands with the impact 1751 01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:34,540 that we feel like the story deserves. 1752 01:32:06,480 --> 01:32:08,380 When our physical bodies die 1753 01:32:08,480 --> 01:32:10,460 and we go back into the mother, 1754 01:32:10,560 --> 01:32:13,460 all that water that's inside of us 1755 01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:15,380 goes back to the mother as well 1756 01:32:15,480 --> 01:32:18,060 and we drink that water 1757 01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:21,320 and our ancestors live inside of us. 1758 01:32:22,320 --> 01:32:26,600 But now that PFAS has poisoned that water... 1759 01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:29,220 ...they don't just poison us. 1760 01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:31,320 They poison our ancestors... 1761 01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:34,420 ...and everything that's connected to Ngadjung, 1762 01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:36,520 or to our water. 1763 01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:53,320 ♪ Man-made chemicals are 1764 01:33:54,320 --> 01:33:56,760 ♪ Poisoning the Earth 1765 01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:03,740 ♪ Chemists move molecules around 1766 01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:06,840 ♪ Like we move furniture 1767 01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:13,300 ♪ After we're dead and gone 1768 01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:16,680 ♪ It will be here a million years 1769 01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:23,900 ♪ We'll all be dead and gone 1770 01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:28,180 ♪ We cried a billion tears 1771 01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:30,700 ♪ Those tears are flowing 1772 01:34:30,800 --> 01:34:33,560 ♪ Deep in the water 1773 01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:38,160 ♪ Flowing deep in the water 1774 01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:42,960 ♪ Flowing deep in the water 1775 01:34:44,640 --> 01:34:47,920 ♪ Flowing deep in the water 1776 01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:52,340 ♪ A devil with your suit and tie 1777 01:34:52,440 --> 01:34:56,440 ♪ I know your wicked little game 1778 01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:00,180 ♪ And we're rising up from 1779 01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:02,840 ♪ Deep in the water 1780 01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:07,960 ♪ Rising deep in the water 1781 01:35:09,280 --> 01:35:12,620 ♪ Sing it now, brothers and sisters 1782 01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:14,980 ♪ Sons and daughters 1783 01:35:15,080 --> 01:35:17,380 ♪ The truth is lying 1784 01:35:17,480 --> 01:35:20,080 ♪ Deep in the water 1785 01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:32,060 ♪ The truth is rising up 1786 01:35:32,160 --> 01:35:34,540 ♪ The truth is rising up from 1787 01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:39,380 ♪ Deep in the water, deep in the water 1788 01:35:39,480 --> 01:35:41,820 ♪ The truth is rising up 1789 01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:44,660 ♪ The truth is rising up from 1790 01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:47,000 ♪ Deep in the water... ♪ 130524

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