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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:14,224 --> 00:00:16,193 Breaking news about Carlos Ghosn. 2 00:00:16,393 --> 00:00:18,519 He has now fled Tokyo. 3 00:00:19,521 --> 00:00:23,399 Ladies and gentlemen, I will ask you to leave the floor, please. 4 00:00:25,068 --> 00:00:27,445 His escape is a huge story. 5 00:00:29,406 --> 00:00:30,999 Biggest story of the year by far. 6 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:35,870 I did not escape justice. I fled injustice. 7 00:00:36,454 --> 00:00:38,832 These allegations are untrue. 8 00:00:39,541 --> 00:00:43,211 I should have never been arrested in the first place. 9 00:00:44,254 --> 00:00:46,298 I don't think that is justice. 10 00:00:46,673 --> 00:00:51,219 This is only the rich escaping the criminal process. 11 00:00:51,887 --> 00:00:53,927 I was left with no other choice 12 00:00:55,098 --> 00:00:57,559 but to protect myself and my family. 13 00:00:59,811 --> 00:01:03,699 What makes a former CEO knowingly, willingly and wantonly 14 00:01:03,899 --> 00:01:05,867 break the law in Japan by escaping? 15 00:01:06,067 --> 00:01:08,161 You are regarded as a fugitive. 16 00:01:08,361 --> 00:01:10,205 The only thing I'm looking for is a trial 17 00:01:10,405 --> 00:01:15,285 where the, rules or the rights of the defense will be respected. 18 00:01:16,494 --> 00:01:19,456 He has a strong belief in his powers of persuasion. 19 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,177 I've been the object of a character assassination campaign. 20 00:01:24,377 --> 00:01:27,923 Possibly, he can hide things to a greater extent than is actually true. 21 00:01:28,632 --> 00:01:31,977 Did I have any inclination of the depths 22 00:01:32,177 --> 00:01:35,022 we would have to dive and what we would uncover? 23 00:01:35,222 --> 00:01:36,681 I had no idea. 24 00:01:37,349 --> 00:01:43,021 What has emerged is a complete re-understanding of Carlos Ghosn. 25 00:01:43,980 --> 00:01:46,241 It seems like the perfect crime. 26 00:01:46,441 --> 00:01:48,452 Look at that. This is it. 27 00:01:48,652 --> 00:01:51,329 His actions are uncomprehensible. 28 00:01:51,529 --> 00:01:53,665 Flies in the face of logic. 29 00:01:53,865 --> 00:01:55,542 Flies in the face of decency. 30 00:01:55,742 --> 00:02:02,742 Judicial system doesn't forget. 31 00:02:04,084 --> 00:02:07,128 When you say there is a crime, you say, "Okay, who is the victim?" 32 00:02:07,629 --> 00:02:10,674 If there is a victim into the whole story, it's me. 33 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:52,465 The big question now is, is Carlos Ghosn a victim or a villain? 34 00:03:21,703 --> 00:03:23,422 I'm curious as to what your plan is 35 00:03:23,622 --> 00:03:25,215 as an international fugitive. 36 00:03:25,415 --> 00:03:29,335 Well, I'm used to what you call "mission impossible." 37 00:03:30,296 --> 00:03:32,881 I've been in too many "mission impossible." 38 00:03:36,259 --> 00:03:38,979 At the end of the day, the mission was to rescue Carlos, 39 00:03:39,179 --> 00:03:42,098 get him free from Japan so he wouldn't be killed there. 40 00:03:45,018 --> 00:03:48,780 Well, Carlos is free and the Japanese aren't killing him. 41 00:03:48,980 --> 00:03:51,107 It couldn't have been more successful. 42 00:03:52,776 --> 00:03:54,619 With big gestures 43 00:03:54,819 --> 00:03:57,539 defendant Ghosn accused the prosecutor. 44 00:03:57,739 --> 00:03:59,750 To legitimize his escape 45 00:03:59,950 --> 00:04:02,252 he has lied about our judicial system 46 00:04:02,452 --> 00:04:05,372 and has done so in front of the whole world. 47 00:04:06,289 --> 00:04:07,799 As Minister of Justice 48 00:04:07,999 --> 00:04:13,221 I cannot let that go unchallenged. 49 00:04:13,421 --> 00:04:15,465 I will repeat as many times as necessary. 50 00:04:16,882 --> 00:04:18,684 I didn't realize that the Japanese 51 00:04:18,884 --> 00:04:20,971 would be so embarrassed nationally. 52 00:04:21,596 --> 00:04:23,732 I had some American lawyers reach out to me 53 00:04:23,932 --> 00:04:28,895 and tell me to start being concerned, and this could end badly. 54 00:04:29,813 --> 00:04:32,407 There was a photo going through Immigration in Istanbul 55 00:04:32,607 --> 00:04:34,826 that was released to the media. 56 00:04:35,026 --> 00:04:38,288 Two men are suspected of playing key roles in the escape. 57 00:04:38,488 --> 00:04:43,868 Michael Taylor, a former US Green Beret with close ties to Lebanon. 58 00:04:44,703 --> 00:04:47,162 They were identifying the man in the picture, me. 59 00:04:48,665 --> 00:04:51,176 Well, I'm there in Beirut sitting in a restaurant 60 00:04:51,376 --> 00:04:53,253 and then a bunch of people were clapping. 61 00:04:54,629 --> 00:04:57,391 The maƮtre d' came up and said, "You know, they're clapping for you." 62 00:04:57,591 --> 00:04:59,893 Taylor and Taylor's adult son, Peter, 63 00:05:00,093 --> 00:05:03,397 are all accused of helping former Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn 64 00:05:03,597 --> 00:05:04,981 escape from Japan. 65 00:05:05,181 --> 00:05:07,475 I don't need that notoriety. 66 00:05:08,685 --> 00:05:11,196 A high profile is not something... you want 67 00:05:11,396 --> 00:05:15,025 as you're-you're going into foreign countries trying to help people. 68 00:05:17,277 --> 00:05:21,113 I didn't wanna stay in Lebanon, so I returned to the United States. 69 00:05:22,574 --> 00:05:25,827 I wanted to face whatever consequences there were. 70 00:05:38,298 --> 00:05:40,642 In Japan, in the minds of many people here, 71 00:05:40,842 --> 00:05:43,470 Carlos Ghosn was guilty. 72 00:05:44,721 --> 00:05:48,150 To run away in such a cowardly way isn't human. 73 00:05:48,350 --> 00:05:49,985 He's a coward. 74 00:05:50,185 --> 00:05:54,356 And not only was he guilty he just ran away from the system. 75 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,617 There was widespread outrage on the government 76 00:05:57,817 --> 00:05:59,945 and just general public here. 77 00:06:05,992 --> 00:06:09,204 This incident is a stain on the history 78 00:06:10,038 --> 00:06:13,458 of the Japanese justice system. 79 00:06:14,084 --> 00:06:16,136 For Japan, 80 00:06:16,336 --> 00:06:19,348 it feels we are a little ridiculed. 81 00:06:19,548 --> 00:06:21,925 It's not little, we are terribly ridiculed. 82 00:06:24,261 --> 00:06:27,639 Me being able to leave Japan and coming to Lebanon 83 00:06:28,431 --> 00:06:30,484 was another chance at life. 84 00:06:30,684 --> 00:06:32,435 I can give another voice, 85 00:06:33,103 --> 00:06:38,650 certainly as strong as the voice of Nissan and the Japanese state, 86 00:06:39,234 --> 00:06:41,403 but at least which ring true, 87 00:06:42,445 --> 00:06:47,918 when you compare it to all the lies and the manipulation. 88 00:06:48,118 --> 00:06:51,997 And I profoundly think that with time, 89 00:06:52,706 --> 00:06:55,959 truth will always appear for whoever cares about it. 90 00:06:59,796 --> 00:07:01,807 Up until now, for me the thing that... 91 00:07:02,007 --> 00:07:06,603 - Yeah, the very, very serious point of... - this entire Ghosn saga 92 00:07:06,803 --> 00:07:11,858 are the latest Japanese allegations of financial crime, essentially theft. 93 00:07:12,058 --> 00:07:15,987 Japanese prosecutors suspect that this isn't isolated to Nissan, 94 00:07:16,187 --> 00:07:21,034 but they don't have jurisdiction to investigate Renault. 95 00:07:21,234 --> 00:07:22,452 Only the French can do that. 96 00:07:22,652 --> 00:07:25,780 And so, they send the evidence that they've gathered to the French. 97 00:07:32,579 --> 00:07:33,705 Three, two, one. 98 00:07:36,583 --> 00:07:38,301 Renault is an important company. 99 00:07:38,501 --> 00:07:40,462 It's part of the French history. 100 00:07:41,379 --> 00:07:43,256 We trusted Carlos Ghosn. 101 00:07:43,924 --> 00:07:46,393 But after Carlos Ghosn was arrested, 102 00:07:46,593 --> 00:07:50,931 Renault immediately initiated an internal investigation 103 00:07:51,431 --> 00:07:53,567 to understand what was going on. 104 00:07:53,767 --> 00:07:57,354 And then the investigation start revealing things that are troubling. 105 00:07:58,939 --> 00:08:00,866 Through getting documents, getting emails, 106 00:08:01,066 --> 00:08:04,986 getting financial reports, a story begins to emerge. 107 00:08:06,529 --> 00:08:09,541 Ghosn had millions of dollars in questionable expenses 108 00:08:09,741 --> 00:08:11,626 on the Renault-Nissan company tab. 109 00:08:11,826 --> 00:08:13,086 And it's all quite shocking. 110 00:08:13,286 --> 00:08:15,881 There were millions of dollars in private jet flights 111 00:08:16,081 --> 00:08:17,832 to destinations like Ibiza, 112 00:08:18,625 --> 00:08:21,336 where the company has no corporate operations. 113 00:08:23,672 --> 00:08:25,340 Skiing in North America, 114 00:08:26,299 --> 00:08:28,727 beautiful islands off the coast of South America, 115 00:08:28,927 --> 00:08:32,314 and in the flight log, he's written a single word. "Meeting." 116 00:08:32,514 --> 00:08:35,183 But he's got family members on board. 117 00:08:36,643 --> 00:08:38,195 You have some lavish parties. 118 00:08:38,395 --> 00:08:41,273 Was it a birthday party? Was it a business party? 119 00:08:41,856 --> 00:08:46,570 Renault paid over 630,000 euros for this Louis XIV-themed gala. 120 00:08:47,821 --> 00:08:49,823 Why did they have to focus on this? 121 00:08:51,116 --> 00:08:54,369 Carlos made millions, millions of dollars for the company. 122 00:08:54,995 --> 00:08:59,165 And then they were being so petty, criticizing him over a party. 123 00:08:59,749 --> 00:09:01,001 And it's not a crime. 124 00:09:04,713 --> 00:09:09,175 Ghosn hosted friends and acquaintances at the Rio Carnival. 125 00:09:10,176 --> 00:09:12,354 And on top of that, Renault-Nissan are involved 126 00:09:12,554 --> 00:09:17,475 in paying for luxury homes for the Ghosns. Paris, Brazil. 127 00:09:18,101 --> 00:09:19,486 There's a property in Lebanon. 128 00:09:19,686 --> 00:09:23,440 It appears as if Ghosn is using the company as if it were his own. 129 00:09:23,940 --> 00:09:26,660 So whether that's criminal or not, I don't know. 130 00:09:26,860 --> 00:09:28,486 That's up to the courts to decide. 131 00:09:29,571 --> 00:09:32,365 But all that is a tiny element. 132 00:09:32,866 --> 00:09:35,827 It's, the... The little tip of the iceberg. 133 00:09:40,790 --> 00:09:43,385 But when other information arrived, 134 00:09:43,585 --> 00:09:47,464 we expanded the scope of our internal investigation. 135 00:09:50,217 --> 00:09:51,727 The lawyers working for Nissan 136 00:09:51,927 --> 00:09:54,062 had handed over the contents of a hard drive 137 00:09:54,262 --> 00:09:56,181 to the Renault investigators. 138 00:09:57,515 --> 00:10:01,853 The hard drive belongs to Carlos Ghosn's late personal lawyer. 139 00:10:03,063 --> 00:10:05,774 This allegedly contained a mountain of evidence. 140 00:10:08,902 --> 00:10:11,821 And so, obviously, we wanted to get our hands on this information. 141 00:10:14,991 --> 00:10:18,045 Now, new accusations against Carlos Ghosn: 142 00:10:18,245 --> 00:10:21,882 The former Renault-Nissan boss is now the target of a French inquiry 143 00:10:22,082 --> 00:10:24,584 for misuse of corporate assets and money laundering. 144 00:10:28,213 --> 00:10:30,173 It was hugely damaging to Ghosn. 145 00:10:32,759 --> 00:10:35,437 Renault's French employees feel betrayed. 146 00:10:35,637 --> 00:10:39,066 We cannot afford, with everything we ask of our employees, 147 00:10:39,266 --> 00:10:43,436 to have the head of the group, the CEO, stealing from his employees. 148 00:10:47,274 --> 00:10:50,243 Historically, in France a lot of people were outraged 149 00:10:50,443 --> 00:10:52,454 about the job cuts and the wage squeeze. 150 00:10:52,654 --> 00:10:55,916 So the idea that the country's most highly-paid executive 151 00:10:56,116 --> 00:10:59,160 is using the company to enrich himself further... 152 00:11:00,745 --> 00:11:03,832 that just shattered his aura forever, actually, in France. 153 00:11:08,545 --> 00:11:10,345 He's a serial fraudster. 154 00:11:11,256 --> 00:11:14,559 For the French, there is a profound sense of injustice. 155 00:11:14,759 --> 00:11:18,263 This is very bad news for our economy and our democracy. 156 00:11:18,805 --> 00:11:21,441 He has numerous accusations against him. He must answer them. 157 00:11:21,641 --> 00:11:26,229 And of course, the investigation will tell Carlos Ghosn to explain it. 158 00:11:31,651 --> 00:11:34,996 There were many PR company in France 159 00:11:35,196 --> 00:11:37,582 using, you know, the Versailles story. 160 00:11:37,782 --> 00:11:42,704 Using, you know, events like this, distorting reality. 161 00:11:43,288 --> 00:11:46,216 So let's fight an injustice, but in a way where you... 162 00:11:46,416 --> 00:11:48,760 I'm not with people who want to charge me, 163 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,796 but with people who wanna see where is the truth. 164 00:11:53,798 --> 00:11:55,642 Well, as far as this hard drive is concerned, 165 00:11:55,842 --> 00:11:58,562 I cannot speak about the content. 166 00:11:58,762 --> 00:12:00,805 But the content shocks the conscience. 167 00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:04,684 That's all I can say. 168 00:12:25,747 --> 00:12:29,626 At about 5:00 a.m., I heard banging on my door. 169 00:12:31,836 --> 00:12:33,630 I was just in my underwear. 170 00:12:40,637 --> 00:12:44,349 There were 15 armed US Marshals with M4s in their hand. 171 00:12:44,933 --> 00:12:47,253 They said, you know, "Are you Peter Taylor?" I said, "Yes." 172 00:12:47,978 --> 00:12:50,688 And they said, "This is for Japan. It's for you and your father." 173 00:12:52,524 --> 00:12:54,884 You know, I was thinking, like, "W-What are you guys doing?" 174 00:12:56,611 --> 00:12:58,663 I mean, bringing armored personnel carriers 175 00:12:58,863 --> 00:13:02,826 and over 15 armed men with M4s is a bit extreme. 176 00:13:03,702 --> 00:13:06,630 It was clear that the Japanese are suffering 177 00:13:06,830 --> 00:13:09,633 from severe PTSD from Ghosn's escape. 178 00:13:09,833 --> 00:13:12,460 It's just something that they're not gonna get over. 179 00:13:16,089 --> 00:13:19,434 A Harvard man who pulled off an escape straight out of Hollywood. 180 00:13:19,634 --> 00:13:21,269 He and his son are behind bars 181 00:13:21,469 --> 00:13:24,356 for helping a Nissan executive accused of embezzlement 182 00:13:24,556 --> 00:13:26,683 get away from Japanese authorities. 183 00:13:27,225 --> 00:13:28,568 What will happen if you are extradited? 184 00:13:28,768 --> 00:13:29,529 What is your fear? 185 00:13:29,729 --> 00:13:31,905 There's no doubt in my mind, we'll be tortured severely 186 00:13:32,105 --> 00:13:34,649 if we end up being, extradited. 187 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,955 The attorneys had advised me that there's a good chance 188 00:13:40,155 --> 00:13:42,290 that Japan will request extradition. 189 00:13:42,490 --> 00:13:44,668 The attorney said they'll never get it in a million years 190 00:13:44,868 --> 00:13:48,922 because you can't extradite somebody to a country 191 00:13:49,122 --> 00:13:50,916 where you know they're gonna be tortured. 192 00:13:53,043 --> 00:13:56,096 I was pretty confident that the US would not extradite me. 193 00:13:56,296 --> 00:13:59,883 No money was stolen, no one died, no one was hurt. 194 00:14:01,051 --> 00:14:03,011 I felt sorry for my son. 195 00:14:03,511 --> 00:14:05,355 He shouldn't have been involved with this. 196 00:14:05,555 --> 00:14:07,641 He wasn't involved to the level they think. 197 00:14:10,143 --> 00:14:13,897 Why do you think you've been targeted for extradition? 198 00:14:15,106 --> 00:14:18,860 Well, they cannot reach Carlos Ghosn because he is in Lebanon 199 00:14:19,194 --> 00:14:22,489 and Lebanon will not extradite anybody from their country. 200 00:14:23,114 --> 00:14:25,116 So they cannot get him. 201 00:14:25,367 --> 00:14:27,994 So they want to come after myself and my son. 202 00:14:31,373 --> 00:14:33,875 My mother's a distant relation of Ghosn. 203 00:14:35,293 --> 00:14:36,970 I think my mother was a bit surprised 204 00:14:37,170 --> 00:14:41,091 that, after our arrests, she didn't hear from Carlos Ghosn. 205 00:14:41,591 --> 00:14:45,562 And I think that's also because everyone was asking her in Lebanon. 206 00:14:45,762 --> 00:14:47,981 "Hey, you know, he must be in contact with you, right? 207 00:14:48,181 --> 00:14:50,400 Obviously he called you up as soon as we were arrested." 208 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,436 And my mother's like, "No... he didn't." 209 00:14:55,397 --> 00:14:56,815 Family is everything. 210 00:14:57,566 --> 00:15:00,026 If I was the person on the other side 211 00:15:00,694 --> 00:15:02,362 and somebody had saved my life, 212 00:15:03,697 --> 00:15:05,740 I'd be doing everything I could to help. 213 00:15:07,951 --> 00:15:12,956 I hope our president gets word of this and can do the right thing. 214 00:15:23,425 --> 00:15:27,479 I was lucky to have people who supported me in this. 215 00:15:27,679 --> 00:15:31,942 Those people are facing criminal proceedings potentially. 216 00:15:32,142 --> 00:15:35,195 Well, you know, we knew from the beginning what are the risks, 217 00:15:35,395 --> 00:15:37,855 you know, involved into an operation like this. 218 00:15:41,818 --> 00:15:43,527 - Where is the photo? - Here. 219 00:15:51,661 --> 00:15:53,038 - Like this? - Yeah. 220 00:15:54,915 --> 00:15:58,009 I remember talking to Carlos Ghosn shortly after the escape. 221 00:15:58,209 --> 00:16:01,096 So we-we've all had a lot of fun with-with your escape. 222 00:16:01,296 --> 00:16:03,557 Um, you know, we wrote yesterday that there's now 223 00:16:03,757 --> 00:16:05,809 a-a video game, in development already. 224 00:16:06,009 --> 00:16:07,102 I didn't know. 225 00:16:07,302 --> 00:16:10,931 So when Ghosn escapes, you know, dodges prosecutors and the police... 226 00:16:11,681 --> 00:16:14,276 He was just, like, laughing and thought this was very funny. 227 00:16:14,476 --> 00:16:15,861 Carole was laughing. 228 00:16:16,061 --> 00:16:17,854 But you could see that he was proud. 229 00:16:19,940 --> 00:16:22,025 His prospects in Japan were so dire, 230 00:16:22,901 --> 00:16:26,279 and now he's living a free man, really, in Lebanon. 231 00:16:27,322 --> 00:16:28,248 He's a poker player, Ghosn. 232 00:16:28,448 --> 00:16:31,534 And this was the ultimate winning move for him. 233 00:16:32,285 --> 00:16:36,298 But the collateral damage, the trail of bodies from his actions, 234 00:16:36,498 --> 00:16:38,541 like, his choices... is huge. 235 00:16:51,555 --> 00:16:53,565 I currently live with my wife 236 00:16:53,765 --> 00:16:57,102 under house arrest in Japan, waiting for trial. 237 00:16:58,895 --> 00:17:01,356 And, you know, when you're in your sixties, 238 00:17:02,148 --> 00:17:03,700 you lose three years of your life, 239 00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:06,987 you're not looking, like, at a horizon when you're 25 years old. 240 00:17:07,571 --> 00:17:10,332 Over to Japan now, where former Nissan executive Greg Kelly 241 00:17:10,532 --> 00:17:13,210 is accused of helping his former boss Carlos Ghosn 242 00:17:13,410 --> 00:17:15,629 hide millions of dollars from regulators. 243 00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:19,508 Greg Kelly, if convicted, faces up to ten years in prison. 244 00:17:19,708 --> 00:17:23,178 I did not violate any criminal laws in Japan. 245 00:17:23,378 --> 00:17:27,132 My family is very important to me. 246 00:17:28,174 --> 00:17:32,979 And I would like to be able to be in the United States with my family. 247 00:17:33,179 --> 00:17:35,724 I'm 63 years old. 248 00:17:50,322 --> 00:17:52,708 Greg Kelly's legal strategy, 249 00:17:52,908 --> 00:17:56,378 up until the day Carlos Ghosn fled the country, 250 00:17:56,578 --> 00:18:01,591 was to put Carlos Ghosn up on the stand and say, "Carlos Ghosn, 251 00:18:01,791 --> 00:18:06,972 had I formed a binding contract with you to pay you $100 million 252 00:18:07,172 --> 00:18:09,266 without disclosing it to shareholders after you retired?" 253 00:18:09,466 --> 00:18:10,717 And Carlos Ghosn would say no. 254 00:18:11,635 --> 00:18:13,770 But Carlos Ghosn wasn't in the country anymore 255 00:18:13,970 --> 00:18:16,389 and that whole legal strategy went out the window. 256 00:18:18,099 --> 00:18:21,853 So Greg Kelly was left holding the bag, so to speak. 257 00:18:23,355 --> 00:18:27,075 Ironically, there were now more serious charges against Ghosn 258 00:18:27,275 --> 00:18:29,819 which Greg Kelly had nothing to do with. 259 00:18:38,286 --> 00:18:40,672 I've had to wait two years for a trial, 260 00:18:40,872 --> 00:18:44,342 even though it was for compensation which was never paid, 261 00:18:44,542 --> 00:18:47,087 never earned, never promised to be paid. 262 00:18:47,921 --> 00:18:52,759 I'm the one that's on trial, but there's no criminal conduct. 263 00:18:53,593 --> 00:18:55,233 I mean, it just... it doesn't make sense. 264 00:18:55,887 --> 00:18:57,472 Above all, 265 00:18:58,390 --> 00:19:04,363 this was a crime where a CEO concealed his large personal remuneration 266 00:19:04,563 --> 00:19:08,984 and deceived shareholders. 267 00:19:09,317 --> 00:19:13,529 This is an extremely serious crime in the US and the UK, as well as in Japan. 268 00:19:16,157 --> 00:19:18,997 How much faith do you have that it's a fair process? 269 00:19:21,538 --> 00:19:23,206 Let's say I'm praying on it. 270 00:19:27,419 --> 00:19:30,171 My worst nightmare is that they find him guilty. 271 00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:32,924 I think that would just be too much to bear. 272 00:19:42,350 --> 00:19:44,569 A delegation of French magistrates and investigators 273 00:19:44,769 --> 00:19:45,696 will be heading to Beirut 274 00:19:45,896 --> 00:19:48,899 to hear from Lebanese businessman Carlos Ghosn. 275 00:19:50,692 --> 00:19:52,452 The French judiciary are interested 276 00:19:52,652 --> 00:19:55,747 in suspicious expenses from Renault-Nissan. 277 00:19:55,947 --> 00:19:59,326 But the former CEO formally denies these accusations. 278 00:20:08,543 --> 00:20:10,220 It appears that through the course 279 00:20:10,420 --> 00:20:12,639 of normal business with Renault and Nissan, 280 00:20:12,839 --> 00:20:16,184 money was diverted to other companies 281 00:20:16,384 --> 00:20:18,895 in which Carlos Ghosn and his entourage 282 00:20:19,095 --> 00:20:21,264 seems to have a personal interest. 283 00:20:24,976 --> 00:20:26,978 This is very, very troubling. 284 00:20:31,191 --> 00:20:35,120 I'm ready to collaborate with the French justice system. 285 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,699 I wanna give them some facts and the explanation of the facts. 286 00:20:49,918 --> 00:20:52,137 I think in front of Carlos Ghosn, 287 00:20:52,337 --> 00:20:57,050 we have a plot and-and-and fake accusations. 288 00:20:58,385 --> 00:21:01,763 And for the first time since Carlos Ghosn got arrested, 289 00:21:02,430 --> 00:21:06,017 we face the fair way to ask him questions. 290 00:21:07,143 --> 00:21:11,314 And it's just... I would say it's just the beginning of the dance. 291 00:21:14,609 --> 00:21:16,703 It's the very first time that our client 292 00:21:16,903 --> 00:21:21,583 can explain himself in front of judges with his lawyers sitting near him 293 00:21:21,783 --> 00:21:23,618 after preparing his defense. 294 00:21:37,090 --> 00:21:39,926 They interrogated me for three days. 295 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,689 What surprised me during this interrogation 296 00:21:43,889 --> 00:21:48,694 is they were concentrated on a computer and the hard drive 297 00:21:48,894 --> 00:21:52,647 that were stolen from the office I was using in B... in Beirut. 298 00:21:54,399 --> 00:21:59,070 It was taken by Nissan lawyers without any warrant. 299 00:22:00,530 --> 00:22:02,824 And by the way, the computer is not even mine. 300 00:22:03,408 --> 00:22:06,536 Carlos Ghosn participated voluntarily. 301 00:22:07,078 --> 00:22:11,675 And he gave long and detailed answers to hundreds of questions. 302 00:22:11,875 --> 00:22:14,845 I answer everything, all the question 303 00:22:15,045 --> 00:22:18,515 that-that were not related to specifics coming from the hard drive. 304 00:22:18,715 --> 00:22:21,560 I refused to answer question related to this. 305 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,563 How can you trust they're not using information 306 00:22:24,763 --> 00:22:27,399 that had been manipulated, added? 307 00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:28,683 I don't know. 308 00:22:33,355 --> 00:22:37,451 It was beginning to look like Ghosn didn't want to deal with scrutiny. 309 00:22:37,651 --> 00:22:40,737 And all of that evidence was contained in those hard drives. 310 00:22:42,948 --> 00:22:47,702 What we really wanted to know, was Carlos Ghosn a criminal or not? 311 00:22:48,203 --> 00:22:51,882 When you're on a story that big, you know, it doesn't matter what it takes. 312 00:22:52,082 --> 00:22:54,718 It doesn't matter how small the information is. 313 00:22:54,918 --> 00:22:56,461 You go out there and get it. 314 00:23:04,803 --> 00:23:07,189 A last-minute appeal from a Harvard father and son 315 00:23:07,389 --> 00:23:11,268 to avoid extradition to Japan has been denied by a judge. 316 00:23:19,943 --> 00:23:21,286 I was pretty pissed off. 317 00:23:21,486 --> 00:23:23,663 I'm really disappointed in my own country. 318 00:23:23,863 --> 00:23:25,907 Absolutely felt betrayed. 319 00:23:28,034 --> 00:23:32,089 The thing with Mike is that he operates in this kind of gray area. 320 00:23:32,289 --> 00:23:36,251 He gets the job done. Um, doesn't really matter how. 321 00:23:37,711 --> 00:23:39,638 Sometimes he d... he does very good things. 322 00:23:39,838 --> 00:23:42,048 Sometimes he does, like, very shady things. 323 00:23:43,592 --> 00:23:45,894 Back in 2012, he is accused of a... 324 00:23:46,094 --> 00:23:50,015 Of rigging a bid for a $54 million contract. 325 00:23:50,599 --> 00:23:54,227 And then of bribing an FBI official to cover this up. 326 00:23:55,103 --> 00:23:58,565 He accepted a plea deal after spending 14 months in jail. 327 00:24:01,318 --> 00:24:03,370 The fact that Mike Taylor is a convicted criminal 328 00:24:03,570 --> 00:24:05,196 probably goes against him. 329 00:24:05,697 --> 00:24:08,542 The US government have an extradition treaty with Japan 330 00:24:08,742 --> 00:24:10,752 which they can choose to respect or not. 331 00:24:10,952 --> 00:24:12,379 And in the case of Mike Taylor, 332 00:24:12,579 --> 00:24:16,458 they choose to respect that treaty, and Mike Taylor is extradited. 333 00:24:17,667 --> 00:24:21,171 The Taylors could be put on a plane at any time now. 334 00:24:23,465 --> 00:24:26,009 The Japanese took custody of us at Logan Airport, 335 00:24:26,718 --> 00:24:28,562 put us on a Japanese airliner. 336 00:24:28,762 --> 00:24:31,514 We were shackled and we had a dog leash on us. 337 00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:37,354 They had about 17 security guards for us, two prosecutors and two interpreters. 338 00:24:38,730 --> 00:24:40,949 I think they... In their mind, they showed the world, 339 00:24:41,149 --> 00:24:43,902 "Hey, we can reach out and get anybody we want, 340 00:24:44,444 --> 00:24:46,196 even American citizens." 341 00:25:00,502 --> 00:25:01,887 A Massachusetts father and son 342 00:25:02,087 --> 00:25:05,682 accused of helping a former Nissan executive escape from Japan 343 00:25:05,882 --> 00:25:07,351 have pleaded guilty. 344 00:25:07,551 --> 00:25:09,936 Michael and Peter Taylor entered their guilty pleas 345 00:25:10,136 --> 00:25:12,347 in a Tokyo courtroom overnight. 346 00:25:14,224 --> 00:25:16,026 So we're looking three to three and a half years 347 00:25:16,226 --> 00:25:18,945 of sitting in solitary confinement at Tokyo Detention House 348 00:25:19,145 --> 00:25:21,356 before we can get to a trial. 349 00:25:22,566 --> 00:25:23,617 So, of course, what do we do? 350 00:25:23,817 --> 00:25:26,653 We did the business decision and we pled guilty right away. 351 00:25:29,281 --> 00:25:31,333 On the outside I had to be apologetic 352 00:25:31,533 --> 00:25:33,668 and pretend like I was remorseful. 353 00:25:33,868 --> 00:25:36,621 But on the inside, it's like, "Screw you, guys." 354 00:25:38,039 --> 00:25:41,468 The Japanese court sentenced Michael Taylor to two years in prison. 355 00:25:41,668 --> 00:25:44,379 His son Peter will serve one year, eight months. 356 00:25:48,341 --> 00:25:51,219 I knew that was the last time I was gonna see my father, 357 00:25:51,803 --> 00:25:53,230 for a long time at least. 358 00:25:53,430 --> 00:25:55,649 So I always made sure to smile, tell him I love him. 359 00:25:55,849 --> 00:25:58,101 I told him, "I'm fine. You have nothing to worry about." 360 00:25:58,768 --> 00:26:02,355 But should I have been a bit worried? Certainly. 361 00:26:07,652 --> 00:26:09,946 Carlos Ghosn and the Taylors traded places. 362 00:26:10,697 --> 00:26:12,833 That's how angry the Japanese were, is they... 363 00:26:13,033 --> 00:26:14,459 They pushed to have the extradition. 364 00:26:14,659 --> 00:26:17,954 And they were sent to the same Japanese jail that Ghosn was in. 365 00:26:25,921 --> 00:26:29,057 Kelly has been left behind within this whole situation, 366 00:26:29,257 --> 00:26:30,517 and so, for the past 17 months, 367 00:26:30,717 --> 00:26:33,845 has been testifying here in Tokyo, trying to clear his name. 368 00:26:39,434 --> 00:26:45,106 Before the announcement of the verdict, I was scared to death. 369 00:26:51,488 --> 00:26:55,533 The verdict is being delivered as we speak. 370 00:27:00,580 --> 00:27:02,549 Was it a victory or a loss? 371 00:27:02,749 --> 00:27:04,801 It is a difficult question but 372 00:27:05,001 --> 00:27:06,586 almost win. 373 00:27:07,170 --> 00:27:09,306 Hello? 374 00:27:09,506 --> 00:27:11,892 Yo, dude. The weirdest verdict. 375 00:27:12,092 --> 00:27:14,519 The judge gave him a six-month sentence but then suspended it. 376 00:27:14,719 --> 00:27:19,024 He's also free to return to the US, and we expect that to happen fairly soon. 377 00:27:19,224 --> 00:27:21,943 - Did you speak to Greg about it, or... - No, I haven't had a chance yet. 378 00:27:22,143 --> 00:27:25,197 But, like, Greg's always held from the beginning that he's not guilty. 379 00:27:25,397 --> 00:27:27,023 That he did nothing wrong. 380 00:27:35,198 --> 00:27:39,586 We've got negative COVID tests. Greg's got his passport. 381 00:27:39,786 --> 00:27:42,497 We're headed home to see our family and our friends. 382 00:27:43,081 --> 00:27:45,675 Three years and three months it took to get to this point. 383 00:27:45,875 --> 00:27:47,135 It's just unbelievable. 384 00:27:47,335 --> 00:27:48,335 Amen. 385 00:27:49,004 --> 00:27:50,171 Suitcases. 386 00:28:16,531 --> 00:28:18,417 A little over a month after my sentencing, 387 00:28:18,617 --> 00:28:23,588 remained in solitary and then was sent to Yokohama Prison, where I thought, 388 00:28:23,788 --> 00:28:27,050 like, I wouldn't be in solitary anymore, and then I went right back to solitary... 389 00:28:27,250 --> 00:28:28,876 with even worse conditions. 390 00:28:33,423 --> 00:28:36,685 I was pretty much immobile for two years. 391 00:28:36,885 --> 00:28:38,303 So I wasn't moving. 392 00:28:41,973 --> 00:28:46,069 You see people around you in solitary, grown men, kicking, 393 00:28:46,269 --> 00:28:49,439 banging on their doors, sobbing, totally breaking down. 394 00:28:54,069 --> 00:28:57,581 It seemed like a justice system that was kind of created 395 00:28:57,781 --> 00:29:00,158 back when Japan literally was a dictatorship. 396 00:29:04,162 --> 00:29:08,166 I heard nothing from Carlos the entire time we were in jail. 397 00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:17,217 Carlos's time in jail were a cakewalk compared to what me and Peter suffered. 398 00:29:19,553 --> 00:29:21,563 Fifteen consecutive days or more 399 00:29:21,763 --> 00:29:24,224 of solitary confinement is considered torture. 400 00:29:25,016 --> 00:29:29,279 Peter spent 13 months in prison solitary confinement. 401 00:29:29,479 --> 00:29:31,189 I spent 17 months. 402 00:29:32,482 --> 00:29:33,408 You sleep on the floor. 403 00:29:33,608 --> 00:29:35,860 You eat on the floor. Everything's on the floor. 404 00:29:37,404 --> 00:29:39,122 There's no heat. You freeze. 405 00:29:39,322 --> 00:29:41,741 You get frostbite 'cause you don't have shoes. 406 00:29:42,325 --> 00:29:44,002 You can't stay warm, it's impossible. 407 00:29:44,202 --> 00:29:46,288 And you're not allowed to exercise in your room. 408 00:29:54,129 --> 00:29:57,382 They'll come around and give you whatever work it is. 409 00:29:57,966 --> 00:29:59,926 They'll give that to you in your cell. 410 00:30:02,721 --> 00:30:04,890 My work was to tear little pieces of paper. 411 00:30:06,516 --> 00:30:08,226 And it's really hard material. 412 00:30:09,185 --> 00:30:11,321 And you're now getting blood blisters on your fingertips 413 00:30:11,521 --> 00:30:12,981 but you gotta keep doing that. 414 00:30:13,940 --> 00:30:17,068 It's just a psychological game they're playing with you. 415 00:30:17,569 --> 00:30:20,113 I don't think it serves any real purpose other than that. 416 00:30:24,910 --> 00:30:26,953 I found out that my father was dying. 417 00:30:27,495 --> 00:30:31,166 My attorneys came to see me, tell me, "Your father's got cancer and he's dying. 418 00:30:31,708 --> 00:30:33,251 He only has a matter of weeks." 419 00:30:34,127 --> 00:30:37,723 I requested to make a telephone call to my father on his deathbed. 420 00:30:37,923 --> 00:30:39,141 I was denied that. 421 00:30:39,341 --> 00:30:40,475 They wouldn't let me call my father, 422 00:30:40,675 --> 00:30:43,511 so he died without me being able to say goodbye to him. 423 00:31:02,781 --> 00:31:06,084 Up until early 2019, shortly after Ghosn was first arrested, 424 00:31:06,284 --> 00:31:09,162 there was a lot of talk about hostage justice, 425 00:31:09,996 --> 00:31:14,134 and honestly, the first couple of charges didn't seem that serious. 426 00:31:14,334 --> 00:31:18,046 And because of the treatment Ghosn was receiving, it seemed out of proportion. 427 00:31:20,215 --> 00:31:21,725 When you learn about this hard drive, 428 00:31:21,925 --> 00:31:25,971 it seems that Carlos Ghosn's explanations are no longer sufficient. 429 00:31:34,187 --> 00:31:35,781 By an incredible stroke of luck, 430 00:31:35,981 --> 00:31:39,109 one of my sources had access to the contents of the hard drive. 431 00:31:49,661 --> 00:31:53,006 On this hard drive were all of Ghosn's late lawyer's communications, 432 00:31:53,206 --> 00:31:55,375 all of his emails, going back years. 433 00:31:56,835 --> 00:31:59,546 And they seem to detail this hidden flow of money. 434 00:32:03,967 --> 00:32:07,429 It all seemed to start about a decade before he was arrested. 435 00:32:11,099 --> 00:32:14,811 Overseas markets tumbled this morning for a second day. 436 00:32:16,646 --> 00:32:20,450 As a result of the public outrage about executive pay in Japan 437 00:32:20,650 --> 00:32:23,945 during the financial crisis, Ghosn took a big pay cut. 438 00:32:24,529 --> 00:32:26,281 Basically 50% of his salary. 439 00:32:28,116 --> 00:32:31,703 And he certainly could not have been happy about this drop in status. 440 00:32:33,038 --> 00:32:34,998 You know, everything starts from there. 441 00:32:46,676 --> 00:32:48,437 When you look at this hard drive, 442 00:32:48,637 --> 00:32:52,691 there's evidence that suggests Carlos Ghosn received tens of millions of dollars 443 00:32:52,891 --> 00:32:55,902 from an Omani billionaire called Suhail Bahwan 444 00:32:56,102 --> 00:32:57,854 and from other people close to him. 445 00:33:00,982 --> 00:33:04,286 In 2004, Suhail Bahwan set up a car dealership 446 00:33:04,486 --> 00:33:06,830 called Suhail Bahwan Automobiles, or SBA 447 00:33:07,030 --> 00:33:10,917 which would buy Renault and Nissan cars and sell them in Oman 448 00:33:11,117 --> 00:33:12,757 and in-in other Middle Eastern countries. 449 00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:17,924 From 2011, Renault and Nissan start to give special bonuses 450 00:33:18,124 --> 00:33:21,428 to this Omani dealership to the tune of about $50 million. 451 00:33:21,628 --> 00:33:23,388 And you can kind of see, if you look at the emails, 452 00:33:23,588 --> 00:33:27,676 these bonuses are being given as a... As a direct order by-by Carlos Ghosn. 453 00:33:30,095 --> 00:33:32,898 Through a fairly convoluted route, a similar amount of money 454 00:33:33,098 --> 00:33:36,518 seems to have ended up in Carlos Ghosn's pocket. 455 00:33:38,103 --> 00:33:41,239 What you have is $50 million going from the car companies 456 00:33:41,439 --> 00:33:44,826 into the car dealership, and you have $50 million 457 00:33:45,026 --> 00:33:48,330 going to shell companies in Lebanon controlled by Carlos Ghosn, 458 00:33:48,530 --> 00:33:52,033 from Suhail Bahwan and other people tied to the dealership. 459 00:33:57,414 --> 00:34:00,834 It's-It's unbelievable that he managed to keep this quiet for so many years. 460 00:34:01,459 --> 00:34:03,169 It... It stinks. 461 00:34:07,048 --> 00:34:10,594 Was Carlos Ghosn that upset about cutting his pay by 50%? 462 00:34:11,094 --> 00:34:14,064 And that upset that, you know, Nissan wasn't able to figure out a way 463 00:34:14,264 --> 00:34:16,357 to get him his money back that he decided he'll go on out 464 00:34:16,557 --> 00:34:17,901 and do it in... on his own? 465 00:34:18,101 --> 00:34:21,271 It started to look like he was a thief. 466 00:34:26,192 --> 00:34:27,828 If, through Nissan and Renault, 467 00:34:28,028 --> 00:34:30,247 you were channeling tens of millions of dollars 468 00:34:30,447 --> 00:34:34,960 to Suhail Bahwan and associated companies and people within those companies... 469 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,087 - Yeah. - And then similar amounts, 470 00:34:37,287 --> 00:34:39,339 tens of millions of dollars, 471 00:34:39,539 --> 00:34:42,968 were arriving back into your pocket through shell companies or other means, 472 00:34:43,168 --> 00:34:44,720 - Yeah. - You must recognize that, 473 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,055 at the very least, that's a conflict of interest. 474 00:34:47,255 --> 00:34:50,142 Look, there is no conflict of interest for a very simple reason, 475 00:34:50,342 --> 00:34:55,387 is Suhail Bahwan has absolutely no interaction with the distributor. 476 00:34:56,014 --> 00:34:57,607 He has no interaction with the distributor. 477 00:34:57,807 --> 00:35:00,027 So people are gonna say, you know, "Why didn't you talk about it?" 478 00:35:00,227 --> 00:35:03,989 But I have a lot of relationship with many people in the worlds 479 00:35:04,189 --> 00:35:08,493 who can be cousins, or uncles, or friends of existing distributors. 480 00:35:08,693 --> 00:35:11,872 Doesn't mean that every time I have a relationship, 481 00:35:12,072 --> 00:35:15,500 or I give some advice, or I give any, 482 00:35:15,700 --> 00:35:20,047 you know, um, strategic, point of view 483 00:35:20,247 --> 00:35:23,091 or counseling to these people, I need to declare them. 484 00:35:23,291 --> 00:35:27,671 The distributor in Oman... The main shareholder, 485 00:35:28,255 --> 00:35:32,100 of the distributor of-of Oman, is Ahmed Bahwan. 486 00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:33,352 Okay? 487 00:35:33,552 --> 00:35:37,147 What they have done is they have linked Ahmed Bahwan 488 00:35:37,347 --> 00:35:39,566 with his father, Suhail Bahwan. 489 00:35:39,766 --> 00:35:42,694 Suhail Bahwan, by the way, is not a shareholder of the company. 490 00:35:42,894 --> 00:35:44,780 He has absolutely no link to the company. 491 00:35:44,980 --> 00:35:49,326 He founded the company, and at a certain moment, in 2008 or 2009, 492 00:35:49,526 --> 00:35:52,153 he has given all the shares to his sons. 493 00:35:52,737 --> 00:35:56,199 Suhail Bahwan, as a independent businessman, 494 00:35:56,700 --> 00:36:00,996 used to come to see me, seek my advice, for many years. 495 00:36:01,580 --> 00:36:02,381 Okay? 496 00:36:02,581 --> 00:36:08,345 And, all the payment that were made to this distributor were justified. 497 00:36:08,545 --> 00:36:12,974 You have many executives of Renault and of Nissan who signed off. 498 00:36:13,174 --> 00:36:16,636 We explained this to the judge but he decided to ignore it. 499 00:36:20,432 --> 00:36:23,527 Actually, we believe that Mr. Suhail Bahwan, 500 00:36:23,727 --> 00:36:27,280 he was directly and personally involved in the relationship with SBA 501 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,817 and with its leadership, and that on the side, 502 00:36:32,193 --> 00:36:36,498 Carlos Ghosn was maintaining a completely concealed, 503 00:36:36,698 --> 00:36:41,786 long, highly remunerated, personal relationship with this company. 504 00:36:44,831 --> 00:36:47,292 This is textbook conflict of interest. 505 00:36:47,876 --> 00:36:51,588 And he never mentioned this to anyone. 506 00:36:58,428 --> 00:37:00,897 When this information was first coming out about these money flows, 507 00:37:01,097 --> 00:37:03,141 nothing is actually in Ghosn's name. 508 00:37:03,892 --> 00:37:06,236 But there's a bunch of emails in the hard drive 509 00:37:06,436 --> 00:37:09,606 which show Ghosn's late lawyer moving money around to buy this yacht. 510 00:37:10,106 --> 00:37:13,026 And the initial down payment, th-the money came from Oman. 511 00:37:21,618 --> 00:37:23,578 At the Dbayeh marina, 512 00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:26,122 there is a lot of security. 513 00:37:28,208 --> 00:37:29,928 This is it right there. 514 00:37:30,502 --> 00:37:32,254 Inside, to the marina. 515 00:37:35,215 --> 00:37:37,655 We can't get in. We're gonna have to turn around. 516 00:37:42,722 --> 00:37:44,107 See... See that walkway there? 517 00:37:44,307 --> 00:37:45,559 Can we drive down there? 518 00:37:46,184 --> 00:37:48,186 That's public. Perfect. 519 00:37:49,854 --> 00:37:50,854 Look at that. 520 00:37:51,856 --> 00:37:52,657 Yeah, this is it. 521 00:37:52,857 --> 00:37:54,701 - My God, that's Ghosn's yacht. - Yeah. 522 00:37:54,901 --> 00:37:57,662 Think it's the one with the gray things on the top of it. 523 00:37:57,862 --> 00:38:01,375 I mean, I don't know what the definition of a superyacht is, but it's a 120-foot. 524 00:38:01,575 --> 00:38:02,575 Yeah, it's huge. 525 00:38:05,453 --> 00:38:07,080 Why did Ghosn want a yacht? 526 00:38:08,498 --> 00:38:10,667 I mean, this is how rich people spend money. 527 00:38:11,543 --> 00:38:13,845 And we know that the Ghosn family 528 00:38:14,045 --> 00:38:16,673 kind of used it to cruise around the Mediterranean. 529 00:38:18,383 --> 00:38:21,344 People that Ghosn was hanging out with, people like Suhail Bahwan, 530 00:38:22,012 --> 00:38:26,308 they are billionaires, and these people own yachts. 531 00:38:26,975 --> 00:38:31,062 Ghosn, you know, in buying a yacht, was kind of joining that club. 532 00:38:31,563 --> 00:38:33,982 That club of the ultrawealthy. 533 00:38:34,983 --> 00:38:38,612 Prosecutors believe he's been using company money to pay for that yacht. 534 00:38:42,824 --> 00:38:44,000 I don't know whether or not 535 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,086 he is being protected by the Lebanese government 536 00:38:46,286 --> 00:38:48,755 but he is drinking champagne in Lebanon 537 00:38:48,955 --> 00:38:51,550 and he is relaxing by the pool. 538 00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:54,044 That's a fact. 539 00:39:04,012 --> 00:39:05,612 Who owned the yacht? 540 00:39:08,476 --> 00:39:11,645 Well... the yacht is, the yacht is 541 00:39:12,187 --> 00:39:14,781 the property of the company, of Beauty Yacht. 542 00:39:14,981 --> 00:39:16,825 And, Beauty Yacht has shareholders. 543 00:39:17,025 --> 00:39:20,954 But potentially, in practical day-to-day terms, you own the yacht. 544 00:39:21,154 --> 00:39:22,831 - You've used the yacht. - I'm using the yacht today. 545 00:39:23,031 --> 00:39:25,751 I'm spending on the yacht. I'm paying for the employees. 546 00:39:25,951 --> 00:39:27,244 Yes, that's what I'm doing. 547 00:39:32,791 --> 00:39:36,211 A new arrest warrant has been issued for Carlos Ghosn. 548 00:39:37,170 --> 00:39:40,724 French prosecutors issuing an international arrest warrant 549 00:39:40,924 --> 00:39:43,060 for former Nissan chairman Carlos Ghosn 550 00:39:43,260 --> 00:39:45,270 and four others they say allegedly helped him 551 00:39:45,470 --> 00:39:48,765 funnel millions of euros from French carmaker Renault. 552 00:39:49,641 --> 00:39:53,487 I think there's enough smoke now that there are legitimate questions to answer. 553 00:39:53,687 --> 00:39:55,647 This is not all just a plot from the Japanese. 554 00:39:56,231 --> 00:39:57,407 Go to court. Make your case. 555 00:39:57,607 --> 00:39:59,025 Just like every other citizen. 556 00:39:59,651 --> 00:40:04,915 This idea that Carlos Ghosn is a lovable rogue who should now 557 00:40:05,115 --> 00:40:09,202 just be allowed to continue his life scot-free is not gonna fly. 558 00:40:11,288 --> 00:40:14,124 Why not surrender to the French authorities? 559 00:40:14,624 --> 00:40:15,550 Look, I-I cannot. 560 00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:19,296 Will you physically go to France to face these charges? 561 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:21,056 But I cannot. 562 00:40:21,256 --> 00:40:24,142 What you... you seem to say, okay, I'm sitting in Lebanon 563 00:40:24,342 --> 00:40:26,603 and I can fly... I have no passport. 564 00:40:26,803 --> 00:40:27,979 I cannot move from Lebanon. 565 00:40:28,179 --> 00:40:32,234 I am under the Lebanese justice system and under the Lebanese jurisdiction. 566 00:40:32,434 --> 00:40:33,902 - But... - And we just have to acknowledge that. 567 00:40:34,102 --> 00:40:36,613 Yeah, Carlos, isn't it possible that you could get to France 568 00:40:36,813 --> 00:40:39,116 and face charges there in a place where, you know, 569 00:40:39,316 --> 00:40:42,235 the justice system is considered much more fair? 570 00:40:43,278 --> 00:40:45,997 It's easier saying this is a corrupt Japanese case, 571 00:40:46,197 --> 00:40:48,333 but now the French have an arrest warrant... 572 00:40:48,533 --> 00:40:49,459 - Sure. - It looks worse. 573 00:40:49,659 --> 00:40:52,495 It's harder for you to say this system isn't fair. 574 00:40:53,330 --> 00:40:54,131 It i... It is true. 575 00:40:54,331 --> 00:40:57,718 But will be more simple to transfer the files 576 00:40:57,918 --> 00:41:02,180 which are all connected to Lebanon and to have a fair trial in Lebanon. 577 00:41:02,380 --> 00:41:06,226 Mr. Ghosn, you've complained bitterly about Japan's justice system, 578 00:41:06,426 --> 00:41:10,063 but you don't seem that keen on the French justice system either. 579 00:41:10,263 --> 00:41:12,441 You sound very much like someone who isn't going to accept 580 00:41:12,641 --> 00:41:15,560 any justice system unless it finds you innocent. 581 00:41:18,396 --> 00:41:23,702 It is clear that Carlos Ghosn did what he thought was best 582 00:41:23,902 --> 00:41:25,195 for Carlos Ghosn. 583 00:41:26,029 --> 00:41:31,626 The impact has been felt most by people like the Taylors and Greg Kelly. 584 00:41:31,826 --> 00:41:37,540 People who served jail time as a result of Carlos Ghosn's decisions. 585 00:41:44,631 --> 00:41:45,432 We're here. 586 00:41:45,632 --> 00:41:47,559 - Yep. - And it's good. 587 00:41:47,759 --> 00:41:48,643 Took a while. 588 00:41:48,843 --> 00:41:51,221 Just a little bit. 589 00:41:53,390 --> 00:41:55,070 Just no place like home. 590 00:41:56,518 --> 00:41:58,158 Has everybody got a glass of wine? 591 00:41:58,979 --> 00:41:59,988 Great to have you here. 592 00:42:00,188 --> 00:42:01,073 Thank you. 593 00:42:01,273 --> 00:42:01,991 Cheers. 594 00:42:02,191 --> 00:42:03,867 And now the other children need, like, 18 minutes from... 595 00:42:04,067 --> 00:42:05,150 I know. 596 00:42:06,070 --> 00:42:08,330 I felt a little bit like I'd had the stuffing beat out of me 597 00:42:08,530 --> 00:42:10,364 by the time I got back. 598 00:42:11,866 --> 00:42:13,368 Whoa! 599 00:42:14,369 --> 00:42:16,505 You're acquitted on seven of eight charges, 600 00:42:16,705 --> 00:42:20,082 but you can't escape the system even after you've been acquitted. 601 00:42:24,129 --> 00:42:27,757 It was announced that Nissan's filed a civil suit against me 602 00:42:28,258 --> 00:42:31,978 over Ghosn's compensation and now they want me 603 00:42:32,178 --> 00:42:36,016 to pay 1.4 billion yen, so around 12 million dollars, 604 00:42:37,267 --> 00:42:39,686 which is well beyond my means. 605 00:42:40,604 --> 00:42:42,948 Kind of feel like, okay, we're back. 606 00:42:43,148 --> 00:42:45,701 Here's our life. But is it really our life right now? 607 00:42:45,901 --> 00:42:48,078 There's always that little thing in the back of your head. 608 00:42:48,278 --> 00:42:49,496 - Uncertainty. - Yeah. 609 00:42:49,696 --> 00:42:50,780 Yeah. 610 00:43:03,209 --> 00:43:07,130 My lawyer submitted a motion to the United Nations working group 611 00:43:07,714 --> 00:43:10,175 on torture and human rights, 612 00:43:11,259 --> 00:43:16,514 explaining some of the torture we received and our treatment. 613 00:43:17,766 --> 00:43:20,485 And he said, "Within a matter of days, 614 00:43:20,685 --> 00:43:24,481 you're gonna see the Ministry of Justice in Japan approve your transfer." 615 00:43:25,106 --> 00:43:26,566 And he was right. 616 00:43:35,075 --> 00:43:37,827 It was a hard adjustment, coming back to civilization. 617 00:43:40,455 --> 00:43:42,666 First thing I did was start eating food. 618 00:43:44,376 --> 00:43:45,961 I looked like I should have been dead. 619 00:43:47,003 --> 00:43:48,213 And I felt that way too. 620 00:43:49,839 --> 00:43:51,975 I lost 50 pounds when I was there. 621 00:43:52,175 --> 00:43:54,636 And Peter lost 40 pounds. 622 00:43:56,471 --> 00:43:58,774 Can you remember what your dad and you said to each other 623 00:43:58,974 --> 00:44:00,392 when you first saw each other? 624 00:44:01,393 --> 00:44:03,436 He said, "You're so skinny." 625 00:44:04,896 --> 00:44:06,773 And he, he got emotional. 626 00:44:15,532 --> 00:44:19,586 - I mean... - Am I responsible? 627 00:44:19,786 --> 00:44:22,714 I mean, if somebody is responsible, 628 00:44:22,914 --> 00:44:27,919 is the people who have organized this plot in such a malicious way. 629 00:44:29,170 --> 00:44:32,391 This is where the responsibility is, not about somebody who is being caught 630 00:44:32,591 --> 00:44:37,762 in a trap and desperately tried to have another chance... at life. 631 00:44:42,434 --> 00:44:45,186 I met Carlos in January. 632 00:44:46,479 --> 00:44:48,398 I saw him for maybe an hour. 633 00:44:49,441 --> 00:44:50,942 There was no emotion. 634 00:44:52,819 --> 00:44:58,533 I would have expressed some sympathy, empathy for somebody who saved my life. 635 00:45:00,660 --> 00:45:03,121 He didn't express any of that whatsoever. 636 00:45:04,998 --> 00:45:08,084 So far, I'm out of pocket just for legal fees. 637 00:45:09,002 --> 00:45:11,546 Well over a million dollars in legal fees owed. 638 00:45:14,758 --> 00:45:16,134 Those are big numbers. 639 00:45:17,469 --> 00:45:19,271 And did he give you assurances at that point? 640 00:45:19,471 --> 00:45:24,476 That he would kind of recognize the risk you'd taken and look after you? 641 00:45:24,976 --> 00:45:26,403 Yeah, he did say that to me. 642 00:45:26,603 --> 00:45:30,407 That, you know... And I... And I told him, "Hey, I just saved your life, you know. 643 00:45:30,607 --> 00:45:34,202 One of the things I'm concerned about now is you're gonna pay 644 00:45:34,402 --> 00:45:36,329 for the... that expense of the legal fees." 645 00:45:36,529 --> 00:45:38,198 Which he said, "Of course I will." 646 00:45:40,450 --> 00:45:41,618 But he's not. 647 00:45:46,957 --> 00:45:51,094 I sent his wife, Carole, a text saying, "What's up with your husband? 648 00:45:51,294 --> 00:45:54,422 How come he ain't paying?" No response. 649 00:45:55,465 --> 00:45:59,302 I understand she gotta stand by her husband, but I don't know. 650 00:46:01,429 --> 00:46:04,057 A person's ungrateful that you saved their life. 651 00:46:04,683 --> 00:46:05,934 What can you do about that? 652 00:46:08,645 --> 00:46:09,980 You know, I'm a great friend. 653 00:46:10,730 --> 00:46:12,315 I'm a real loyal friend. 654 00:46:13,191 --> 00:46:15,235 But I'm a great enemy too. 655 00:46:19,322 --> 00:46:21,992 Do you think your story with Carlos is over? 656 00:46:23,952 --> 00:46:24,953 No. 657 00:46:26,830 --> 00:46:28,164 It's far from over. 658 00:46:40,260 --> 00:46:42,896 It's amazing how they came up with them. 659 00:46:43,096 --> 00:46:44,731 People would just send them to us. 660 00:46:44,931 --> 00:46:47,183 This one is good. It's funny. 661 00:46:49,644 --> 00:46:50,779 And I like this one. 662 00:46:50,979 --> 00:46:54,658 Like, he's happy and the Japanese... frowning. 663 00:46:54,858 --> 00:46:58,236 And that's a l... And then the cedars of Lebanon. 664 00:46:58,820 --> 00:47:01,289 And then this one was made after the explosion, saying, 665 00:47:01,489 --> 00:47:03,325 "I should have stayed in Japan." 666 00:47:03,992 --> 00:47:09,164 And he has dollars stacked in his... underwear. 667 00:47:10,832 --> 00:47:13,627 What a story. 668 00:47:15,462 --> 00:47:21,218 The thing to remember is, Carlos Ghosn, he's trapped in Lebanon. 669 00:47:21,885 --> 00:47:24,012 He can't get out. 670 00:47:25,972 --> 00:47:27,098 Don't be fooled. 671 00:47:27,724 --> 00:47:33,772 The man now finds himself in a large prison known as Lebanon. 672 00:47:35,232 --> 00:47:39,077 The most evil thing they did was to destroy his reputation. 673 00:47:39,277 --> 00:47:41,404 Something he's built for so long. 674 00:47:45,242 --> 00:47:51,206 What remains is this deep feeling of injustice and unfairness. 675 00:47:52,540 --> 00:47:54,292 Fighting for my reputation. 676 00:47:55,669 --> 00:47:57,504 Frankly, with everything I've done, 677 00:47:58,338 --> 00:48:01,841 wi-wi-with everything I've built, that's what's gonna remain? 678 00:48:04,469 --> 00:48:09,349 There is, something very evil in the... in what happened. 679 00:48:12,185 --> 00:48:16,656 It just seems rich for a man like Carlos Ghosn to get up 680 00:48:16,856 --> 00:48:19,659 and play the victim when... 681 00:48:19,859 --> 00:48:23,372 so many people around him, by virtue of his actions and decisions, 682 00:48:23,572 --> 00:48:27,409 have been hurt by... by that. 683 00:48:29,786 --> 00:48:33,373 At the end of the day, Carlos Ghosn's 40-year career 684 00:48:34,249 --> 00:48:40,881 has turned into a parable of the dangers of hubris and greed, 685 00:48:41,965 --> 00:48:47,396 that a man could throw away all that good work in a night 686 00:48:47,596 --> 00:48:50,307 because he didn't think he was paid enough. 687 00:48:54,185 --> 00:48:59,024 Unfortunately for me, the scenario is so fake, 688 00:49:00,108 --> 00:49:03,987 so fabricated, so unfair. 689 00:49:05,196 --> 00:49:06,656 This cannot end up like this. 690 00:49:13,747 --> 00:49:15,173 Carlos Ghosn is the target 691 00:49:15,373 --> 00:49:16,733 of an international arrest warrant 692 00:49:17,459 --> 00:49:19,461 by the French Justice system. 693 00:49:21,171 --> 00:49:22,214 Merci. 694 00:49:23,089 --> 00:49:25,934 The former CEO of Renault-Nissan has been taking refuge in Lebanon 695 00:49:26,134 --> 00:49:29,387 since his incredible escape from Japan. 59422

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