All language subtitles for The.Guvnor.2016.LIMITED.720p.BluRay.x264-BiPOLAR

Lenny McLean was the toughest man in Britain.

He was a very dangerous man.

If you can imagine a pot of boiling water

and it's always simmering,
it's ready to boil.

The film you are about to see
shows an incredibly violent fight,

which, for some at least, is entertaining.

I've heard stories that he
would go up the Camden Palace

and challenge black belts in this and that

and he just goes out
and just knocks them completely spark out.

He is like a dog, he either gets bitten
and rolls over and dies,

or he is going to come back and bite you.

Lenny was the man who came back
and bit you and bit you hard.

If you're losing your temper,
you're capable of doing anything,

you're capable of murder really.

There is a lot of negative stuff
said about him.

If you never met him you would have
a certain way you would think about him

and the main mission with the film
would be to let people know

that there's a different side to my dad

that you probably ain't read
or seen on YouTube.

I mean, he was extremely,
extremely funny, quick-witted one-liners,

you know, and you would probably
take an instant like to him.

The physical abuse and the drinking
turned him into a monster really.

But I think there is something more
than just the abuse and the alcohol.

I think there's something deeper, I think
there's something that we've not touched on.

- Charlie?
- Yeah?

Probably I've boxed as an amateur and
done some amateur fights when I was a kid

and I do box and I do love going
to the boxing gym and training, but fight...

Not really, I don't think it really was...
I didn't really...

I like fight, I like sparring, I like doing
the competitive side of it, but fighting, no.

I've got a temper. If someone upsets me,
I've got a slightly bad temper, yeah,

and I had a problem last year and I went
to prison for having a fight with somebody

and I was charged with GBH Section 18.

In the end, I pleaded guilty
to a lesser charge of ABH,

but I still went to prison for it.

Going to prison was an eye-opener.
I definitely don't want to go back there.

So I need to know the truth why my dad
become such a violent person.

I mean, you've taken a lot
of punishment you've dished it out.

What's the worst thing
you've ever done to anyone?

Er, in one of the bare knuckle fights,
I bit a guy's nose off.

Probably the first time
I see something like that

was down when we had the caravan.

All the kids down the caravan used
to drive on these like little motorbikes,

scramblers, rev-and-gos, and I used
to let all the kids go on my one

and one day a girl came out,
and she was a little bit older than us,

I was about eight or nine and she was
about 15 and she wanted to go on my bike

and I said,
"Look, you've got to wait your turn."

Anyway, she's pushed me off the bike
and tried to get on the bike

and me and her started
to have like a set to, like, a fight.

Her dad come out the caravan
and tried to hit me

and said, "You want a fight, you fight me."

Dad's come out the caravan and said,
"No, if you want a fight, you fight me,"

and then me old man just sort of let go,
I've never seen anything like it.

Absolutely just annihilated the geezer,
just smashed him absolutely to pieces.

And the whole place was just silent.

And as he stood up,
and the man was unconscious on the floor,

and he stared at me and pointed a finger at me
and said, "See what you have done now,"

and I was sort of frightened
to get told off and he said,

"Your tea's cold," and walked indoors
like there's nothing had happened.

It just sort of was just
like a normal day of someone going to work

in the post office or a builder
and it was, it didn't affect him.

And after that, he just went
in the caravan and shut the door

and that was the end of that.

Growing up in post-war Britain
in the late '40s, early '50s,

there was nothing about, no money.

In the East End, the doors was open,
kids running around outside.

I know you don't see a lot of it now, but
there used to be stray dogs running around,

food where they have been pregnant

and people throwing buckets
of water over them,

you know, if someone knocks on your door
for sugar or milk or, you know,

you would give it to them.

Look, mate, you're on camera.
You're on camera, they're filming you.

Oh, right.

What have you done wrong?

Everything.

Playing on dumps, bomb sites,
burnt-out buildings,

you know, that's what you used to do.

I suppose everything
seemed happy at the time,

but no one really knew what was going on
behind closed doors.

No. Well, uh...

Right.

This is Geffrye Court in Hoxton.
My dad was born here in 1949.

This is where my dad grew up
with his brothers and sisters,

Boo, Kruger, Barry and Linda

and the Walls, John-John, Sue,
Bill Boy, Kenny Wall and Puff.

His real dad died in his 20s.

And then my nan remarried to Jim Irwin
when my dad was about four,

and I suppose the physical abuse
started around that time.

My stepfather,
he broke my legs when I was five,

broke my jaw when I was six,
broke all my ribs when I was seven,

bashed me right up until I was 12.

Let me tell you how bad the abuse was.

Not only was it physical, it was mental.

They would be hit with belts,

my dad said sometimes
he'd be home from school,

be put straight to bed with no dinner,

and all his cousins and friends
would be playing outside

and it would be light out,
nice sunny day in July.

I mean, the abuse was so bad,

that in the summer, they wore
long trousers and long tops

to help cover the broken bones
and the bruises.

And they lived over in here, this block here.

His stepfather used to bash him up and say,
"I'm the Guv'nor."

So that would be ringing in my dad's ears
throughout his teens and his adult life.

And then what happens,
hate builds up inside you

and you become...

You hate the world.

The turning point was one cold winter.

It was thick snow outside
and Kruger had wet the bed.

He was only a baby and Jim had really laid
into him, really, really severely hurt him,

and my dad picked him up and took him
in a, like a homemade go-kart,

dragged it through the snow, went round
to Nanny Campion's house

and she just weren't having it,
so she got hold of Jimmy Spinks.

Jimmy Spinks, that was his uncle,

Jimmy Spinks was the Guv'nor of Hoxton
at that time

and he used to mind all the corner betters,

all the bookies on the corners
that used to bet

and, you know, he was a person
that you just didn't mess with,

you know, if you went to have a fight
with him you had to turn up with 10 people.

Jimmy Spinks, he went round
there with a cutthroat razor,

Nanny Campion, she went round there
with the old fashioned big glass ashtrays

and they smashed the fuck out of him.

And then he just disappeared for two years.

My dad's relationship to Jimmy Spinks,

he was probably like
a father figure to him really.

Everyone looked up to him
and I think he aspired to be like him.

Because that's the hero figures
you grew up with in the East End,

you grew up with local villains or hard men

and, you know, that's the way
they wanted to be in them days.

Back in the '50s and '60s, in the East End,
it was normal to see grown men

have a hand to hand fight in the street
if they had some dispute.

And it was a cultural thing.

And to be tough
meant people sort of left you alone.

So Lenny became tough.

His first paid fight
was around the age of about nine or 10

here in Geffrye Court.

There was a bigger kid picking on
one of his sisters

and his mum said, "You better go down there,
you better deal with that boy,

"and if you do, I'll give you some money
to go and buy some cream cakes."

And I don't think he needed persuading
to have a cream cake

because he did like a cream cake.

Within a flash, he went down there,
smashed the bully up,

come back, and said where's his cream bun?

She went, "I've to go
to the shop and get it."

He said, "Well, how long are you going to be

"because I'm going to go bash
someone else up. I want two cream buns."

She went, "No, Len, only the one."

I think he probably
had a flavour for it then.

Obviously, when my dad come out of Borstal,

things had changed
for him physically, you know.

Two years in a young man's life,

changes in your body takes,
it's unbelievable,

so when he come out of prison
and see Jim Irwin

and their first altercation,
and my dad punched him,

he went green and then he knew
that abuse would stop there and then.

I was going to give him
a strong talking to once,

but on my mother's death bed,
she promised me,

you know, "Please, please,
don't have a go at him,"

and I promised her
I would never have a go at him.

And I found out about
two weeks ago, he'd died.

And I don't drink,
I ain't drunk for 20 years,

I had a shandy that night.

Hi, Boo, you all right?

Yeah. How's Kruger?

No, I ain't rushing you
for the interview, no.

No, really, I ain't really.
No, look, whenever you're ready.

Obviously, I'm making sure
Kruger is all right first

because obviously it
seemed like he was up for it. Um...

Oh, all right, OK. Well, let me know.
OK. All right then.

I'll put it in the budget, don't worry.

All right. Send him my love, then, yeah?

All right. I'll call you later.
I love you. Bye, bye.

We were supposed to film
Kruger and Boo today,

my dad's brothers and sisters,

just, er, but it's been pretty hard
to try and get people to talk on camera,

especially his family.
They don't want to do it, so.

Knock on the door and see if she's in.

Is there anyone in, Joe? Nan?

You all right, where are you going, Guv?

Where is the dog? Come in then, come in.

How are you, Lyns, are you all right?

I'm fine, shut the door, Joe.

Lenny got married at the age
of 19 and my mum was 17.

My mum, she can remember
walking up the street

and she could actually see
my dad's mattress on the street,

so she go to Rose, "What's that?"
She goes, "Oh, it's Lenny's mattress."

She went, "Why'd you throw the mattress out?"

She went, "Well, I ain't having him back,
Val, you've got to have him."

She said like, looked round and thought,
"Let's see what sort of life I'm in for then

"if his mum's trying to get rid of him."

Here's Caliban Towers here.
I think we used to live on the 13th floor.

When they was younger,
my mum and dad used to have,

because they were probably the first one,
couple to have a flat,

so they used to have a lot of house parties
up there and they used to get pissed

and what him and his cousins used to do
is hang off the top,

13th floor by their fingers, and see who could
hang there the longest without pulling up,

who would get tired and look.

So can you imagine hanging up there
on the 13th floor like that,

freezing cold, drunk,
and see who could stay the longest.

Now, if you slipped
or made one move you're dead.

They play PlayStation 4s now.

Years ago, you used to play
hang off the balcony on the 13th floor.

Drinking, he probably thought
was a good medication

to help him forget.

But what he didn't realise,
drinking was the worst thing for him.

This is the Lion and Lamb pub.
He literally drove them mental in there.

He had so many fights here
they had a picture of him behind the bar,

"Please do not upset this man."

I mean, this is the pub that he used to do
his party trick as well.

Remember the old glass tankards?

He used to line them up across the bar,
get pissed and with the palm of his hand

he would smash every single one
down in one go.

His hand, mum used to come and his hand
would be absolutely cut to pieces.

My mum said that the pub used to be packed,

she said you would order a drink at the bar
and everyone would be on edge

and everyone would wait
for him to go to the toilet,

and as soon as he walked in the toilet,
the whole pub would empty out,

so there would just be her and him
and the band.

I think even the barman left.

And so at the end of the night,
he'd end up bashing the band up drunk.

People were literally like,
"Shut your doors,"

and everyone would sort of go inside

and he would be
like a raging bull in the street.

In them days, people
didn't report it to the police, did they?

Just sort of, these lots knew him anyway

because sometimes they would
ring them up at night and say,

"Look, we've got Lenny here.

"We've nicked him for fighting again
and we'll release him in the morning."

But you didn't have to go through the courts.

They'd just nick you
and leave you in the cell overnight

and let you go in the morning
and that's how it was in them days.

Probably the final straw
was he was out with his mate Jimmy Briggs.

Well, we're actually in the Spread Eagle now
and it's quite mad

because this is where he had his last drink.

Obviously this is where he nearly killed
a man or he did kill a man.

He'd been out drinking all day
with his friend Jimmy Briggs

and he'd pulled a bird.

My dad was sitting there,
the girl was sitting there,

and then my dad said,
"Come on, we'll go somewhere else."

Jimmy says,
"No, no, I am going to stay with this bird."

So the bird turns round to my dad and says,
"You heard what he said. Fuck off."

My dad told Jimmy to tell her to shut up

or he would put her over his knee
and smack her arse

and then Jimmy said, "Don't fucking speak
to her like that, we'll fucking go outside."

And that's what happened.
They walked outside.

And he said to him,
"Come on then, I'm the fucking guv'nor."

As soon as he said that to my dad,
his back would go up.

He's looking at him thinking,

"What I've been through, you cunt,
and you think you are the guv'nor?"

And he would turn into summat evil.

I think Jimmy threw the first punch

and then my old man kept punching
and punching and punching,

till he couldn't punch any more
and broke both his hands on his face,

which is quite fucking,
that should be brutal enough,

and when he couldn't use his hands
no more, he used his teeth,

and he tried to bite his wind pipe out.

But as he is biting him,
he's fucking consuming the flesh

and he killed him, Jimmy Briggs was dead.

They brought him back to life
on the operating theatre

and I can remember my dad coming up
and coughing the human flesh

and I could hear my mum screaming
and saying, "Len, Len,

"that is human flesh you are coughing up
and spitting up,

"what have you done, what have you done?"

And obviously, he's gone to bed,

woke up the next day, heard of what happened,

and he then decided that enough was enough,

you know, he stopped drinking.

What do I think about that story?
Am I horrified about it?

No, not really, I am not horrified at all.

If you want my honest opinion,
you know, what do you expect?

I mean, you expect to get a hiding,
not to get your fucking,

throat bit out, but, you know,

that's how we done things
in them days in London.

Street fighting all the pubs round in Hoxton.

99% of the time,
the aggravation, he caused it.

And then, all of a sudden, I suppose,
he thought it could work in his favour.

So basically, you would go and get kids
starting trouble in all the pubs,

then all of a sudden Lenny would come in
and give them a back hander

and chuck them out,
but really, it was him causing the trouble.

So he would go
to all the pubs in Hoxton and say,

"Look," he said, "You're getting
quite a bad element in here,"

he said, "Why don't I do this?"
He said, "Every Friday I'll come down,

"pick some wages up,
all you got to do is say,

"'Lenny is minding the door here',"
and he said, "All the trouble will stop."

I think he thought, you know, "This ain't
a bad way to make a living, easy money.

"I ain't got to get up at, you know,
do a nine-to-five.

"I can just go in the pubs,
take money off the publicans,

"eat my dinner in there and go home."

And that's how I suppose
the door work started.

Anyone who grew up in Hoxton
knew him from an early age.

He had a reputation when he was
13 or 14 years old as the best fighter,

so, you know not to mess with Lenny
because they know anyone mucks about,

you know, he will just deal with it
in a severe and extremely violent way.

He was just in there, bang, done, next.

And if he took a couple
he'd probably didn't even feel it,

cos he was so in the zone at the time, innit.

You would see people's faces change
when they give it their best shot

- and he didn't even notice it yeah, yeah.
- Yeah.

It's always going to be a worry, innit.

And these pubs were frequented

by teams of gangsters
and villains and armed robbers.

London was having robberies
that were prolific.

My father was involved
in that sort of fraternity

and I can remember these guys

and they looked like they was out of films.

You know, they pull up in lovely cars
and the old rollnecks on,

but they were seriously, seriously
heavy villains

who, who, you know, they used shotguns,

they went and jumped over the pavement
as they say, you know what I mean?

They robbed, they robbed banks.

If there was a dispute, more than likely
someone would come back with a shotgun,

and Lenny had to be amongst these men.

So you can imagine,
you can't be some fleeting wallflower,

you got to be the toughest man there is.

But afterwards, we was like job's done,
it's finished, shook their hands,

made sure they were all right, get them back.

He would go to work being extremely violent
and come home and be extremely loving.

Two different sides.

He'd have his nice, stable family life
and us as kids, we just see him as Uncle Len,

but when he was out in the real world,
you know, his life was at risk.

I mean, people did pull shooters on him
and they shot him.

We're in the Barbican where Jovi's
nightclub used to be.

I mean, it was actually here,

Jovi's was here, this is how it was,
this is the entrance

and it was a glass entrance,
the same as it is today,

obviously it's a Pret a Manger now.

I think the night he got shot,
Monday to Thursday, it wasn't really busy,

so he would do the door on his own,

but weekends he would get his mate
Billy Sullivan to help him

and two fellas on a motorbike drove past
and let a double-barrelled shotgun off.

Billy Sullivan's fainted,
all the girls have gone rushing to him,

but me old man run outside the nightclub,

seen the motorbike coming past,

he chased them up the road

and kicked the back of the wheel
and the wheel of the motorbike wobbled

and he said, "He nearly, nearly fell."
He said, "If they would have fell,"

he said, "I would have got them."

So he's gone back inside,
but as he's gone back in,

all the staff and all the girls are,
"Are you all right, Bill? You all right?

"I think he's been shot."

And he was sitting there
and as he looked round,

he could feel all his back of his legs
soaked, you know, like,

I suppose like when you wet yourself,
but just covered in blood.

So they rung an ambulance and said,
"Len, it's gonna be five minutes."

So he said, "Five fucking minutes?
I'm going to bleed to fucking death here,

"so I'll fucking walk over there."

They went, "No, you can't walk,
we will get a cab."

So a cab driver has pulled up
and he went, "Take me to Bart's."

He said, "You ain't fucking getting in my cab
you're covered in claret."

He said, "I've just been fucking shot,
take me to Bart's!"

Anyway, they've took him to Bart's,
walked in there,

there was a porter half asleep
at the counter like that,

so he's walked in and went,
"Excuse me, sir." He went, "Yes."

He went, "You ain't got anything
for two arseholes, have you?"

And the geezer's seen the fucking hole
like that in the back of his trousers,

blood pouring down the back of his legs,
he's gone, "Aah."

You know, and I said to him,
"Oh, I bet you regret that night being shot.

"I bet you wish you had never went to work

"that night." He said, "No, not really,"

he said, "Because it helped me
sell loads of books."

But I can remember from that day onwards,

as soon as he went back to work

like, I would stay awake most nights
waiting for him to come in

and hear the door shut
and then I would go to sleep,

and that went on for years and years
and years and years.

You know, so it does affect you,
it affects the family.

Pugilist is a mixture of a Greek
and Latin word meaning to fight with fist.

Boxing is to clench the fist
holding the fingers and a thumb into a box.

Ancient Greeks believed fist fighting

was one of the games played
by the gods on Olympus.

Thus, it became part of the Olympic Games.

In Roman times, the sport began to thrive.

Duels to the death were the norm.

From the Victorian era,

the bare knuckle disappeared
with the onset of the Queensbury Rules.

The 10 count, gloves on hands, referees.

People got disinterested.

It was only in the 1970's
that there was resurgence in interest.

Using a clenched fist
is one of the earliest forms of aggression.

It's as old as running and hunting,
it's as old as mankind itself.

No weapon at hand,
the fist is the best weapon we have.

Come on!

Very different from boxing, you have to
hit the man with the outside of your fist

so you don't break your hand.

And you must control your adrenaline.

In the ring, it's an art form,
it's a science,

and to be a champion boxer
you have to be trained from childhood.

Lenny never had that kind of training.

The first bare knuckle champion
was James Figg in 1790.

Other famous champions
were Jack Broughton, Tom Cribb,

Tom Spring, Jim Wall, Jem Mace.

There are statues in pubs all over
the country named after these fighters.

They were celebrated by common folk,
kings and queens.

You could go to a bare-knuckle fight
nowadays.

I mean, all these guys, they look raw,
they look tough, they look big.

But they haven't got the tenacity
of a Lenny McLean.

They break a finger and they sit down
and they are breathing heavy

and they sit down.

I mean, Lenny would fracture a hand,
break his wrist, you wouldn't even know.

It was on the street in his prime,

Lenny could have knocked out
Mike Tyson, Klitschko, any of them,

on the cobbles, that is,
because he was fast, precise, strong

and he could take a terrible hiding, you see.

That's where Lenny's strength lay.

He took so much punishment as a kid.

These kids today are proud of having 10
or 20, maybe even 30 fights on their card.

Lenny McLean had 2,000
up and down the country.

But the reality of this is those lads
are getting hurt after one or two bouts.

I mean, Lenny had thousands
and never whinged.

Some fights, he didn't even take
his coat off, he just steamed in.

To Lenny, it was like drinking a cup of tea.
There was no getting psyched up.

He treated kindness with kindness,
but violence with extreme violence.

For him, that was normal.

I think he just enjoyed fighting,
I think he really did enjoy it, you know.

I think my mum actually said to me once,
she said, she said to me,

"Len, why do you do it?"
He said, "I just like hitting people.

"You know, it makes me forget."

You know, forget what?

The reason he got involved
in the unlicensed boxing

was he was probably out drinking with his
friends and seen the posters on the wall

and everyone is talking about someone else
being a hard man,

but obviously what people
saying his reputation,

Lenny this, Lenny that,
he thinks he's an 'ard man.

So actually looking at the poster
he'd think, "Yeah, I could do that."

Roy Shaw, basically, he'd just come out of
Broadmoor, OK, he was certified insane.

Strong as a bull, very, very powerful man.

When he was actually,
I think it might have been in Broadmoor,

he smashed his way
out of the cell with his head.

This is the sort of guy
that you're dealing with, you know.

Complete and utter loose cannon.

He was regarded as a psychopath.

He was a complete raving lunatic.

Roy.

To the Guv'nor.

To the Guv'nor.

So, when he picks up and reads
the paper about Roy Shaw's the Guv'nor,

he's looking at that obviously and thinking,
"You ain't the fucking Guv'nor."

Now, no one would say anything about
Roy Shaw because of the reprisals of it.

Now, all of a sudden you look at your dad,
how old was he, 25?

And now you've got 25-year-old kid
come out of the woodwork, right?

He's walking around saying,

"I know what I'd do with him,
I'd knock him spark out."

25-year-old kid.

He'd be going into Roy Shaw's local pub
throwing darts at pictures of him, right.

Didn't care, absolutely fearless.

So instead of him thinking,

"Right, well, I've got to fight this one
to build up the ladder,

"I might as well go straight to the top,"

and that's the easiest way
to get the best reputation.

If you beat the best fighter,
you are the best fighter.

Word's obviously got back to Roy.
"There's this kid going around the East End,

"he reckons, he reckons he know
what he'll do with you."

I just picked up a paper one day

and there was that Shaw in the paper saying,

he's the Guv'nor,
he's the best fighter in London,

and I knew I could beat him,

I knew I could beat him.

So a few friends and I got together,
stuck a few quid up and challenged him.

Now Roy wants to fight big time.

I just couldn't take anything from him.

I couldn't take anybody telling me
what to do or telling me off, you know.

Right, all of a sudden the fight's on.

Well, the first fight, your dad,
when he was in his mid-20s

he was so confident in his own ability,

he didn't bother to train.
"I know what I'd do with this guy."

"Crash, bang, wallop, 15 seconds,

"he'll be unconscious, end of story,
I can go home, finished."

But, Roy Shaw, he was a professional
fighter before he got arrested.

You see, whereas he's hit people on
the chin before and they've gone spark out,

now Roy, he was an ex-pro,
he's still there after a couple of rounds.

So all of a sudden, your dad, he realises
that things ain't going quite his way, right.

And then he got beat

and it was because
of a lack of, lack of training.

The second fight, I would say
that he trained a little bit harder.

There was a scrapyard,
I think it was down near Roman Road,

and they used to train in the scrapyard.

There's your trainer, Ted Heel.

Yeah, it is great.

- Train, box.
- You wanna bottle, cunt?

All lorries along here,

half Minis, half Mini engines,

engines, there used to be caravans,
there used to be tyres all the way along here,

and there used to be a mad horse
that used to run around,

that used to live in a corrugated iron shed

and them chasing the horse out
so that they could train.

Go on kid, wind it up.

With punch bags with sand in.

I mean, if you ever punched a punch bag
with sand in, it is,

well, you can't do it,
you'll just break your knuckles.

And then they put gas bottles up
with rope round it and trained in the centre.

And this is the actual place that it was

and it's a park now,
you could have a picnic in it now.

With your dad, he had that way about him.

I mean, he'd be up to
all sorts of tricks all the time, you know.

He'd have you in fits.

You know, he was a bit of a big kid at times.

Even in the second fight, your dad,
he didn't really train hard.

But he was becoming a boxer.

And those old-school methods of training
where it's all sort of minimalist,

it's what helps a fighter.

Right, Ken, you're the,
you know you are the trainer,

how long before you reckon he's ready?

I think he would be ready
at the end of this week.

He'll knock him out in the second round.

What does your son think of him?

Jamie, what round will your dad do him in?

- In the first.
- First?

- One punch, one punch.
- One punch.

- Yeah.
- It's easy, innit, it's easy.

- Yeah.
- Easy.

I'll knock him out
either in the first or the second.

No, first.

If it goes, if it goes more than,
if it goes more than eight rounds

I can't get beat on points.

More than 2,000 East Enders scented
something out of the ordinary

and were not disappointed.

...First right-hander.

That is a punch. He looks a bit knackered.

Ohh, oh!

Classic Lenny McLean one-liner was that
he was being interviewed by a reporter once

and the reporter said of Roy Shaw,
he said that...

Roy Shaw now blames his rather
spectacular defeat on the fact

that before the fight,
he was foolishly advised, he says,

to take a particular form of herbal tea.

So I thought, well, on the night,
what I'll do, I'll take more,

so it'll make me feel stronger for the night,

so on the night of the fight,
about three hours before,

I took four times the amount,
but I didn't just take the capsules,

I took the liquid stuff,
which is the stronger,

but what happens when you take over
the amount, it sedates you,

so really, I was sedated,
and my wife could have knocked me over.

And Lenny said, "Listen..."

All he took was a right hander,
and what happened in the second round.

And he is racking about,
he took this and he took that.

I don't care what you took.

Now that's Lenny McLean,
that's classic, you know.

Why is it so important to beat him,
in this particular fight?

Well...

I've got a bee in my bonnet about him.

He realises now, your dad,
that fitness does come into it,

because it don't always go one round.

Maybe they can hang on,

maybe they might get on their bike
and run for a round,

but you've got to have the stamina to,
with... You know,

to carry on, so that's when
he come to the gym.

Freddie Hill's Gym it was like a real
rough, tough sort of gym.

It was like a throwback to the days
of the Rocky films, really, you know.

If you look at the gyms today
they're all sort of high tech and, you know,

whereas, like, Freddie Hill's gym
was like real rough

and really spit-and-sawdust place, you know.

I think it was just
absolutely stinking, the place,

it stunk of stale beer downstairs
and sweat and tobacco upstairs.

Nowadays, you walk in the gym,
they're all sort of plush,

people putting on hand cream.

So this is it, Freddie Hill's gym.
This is where all the pros come here,

the Finnegan brothers,

I think Marvin Hagler trained here
when he fought Alan Minter.

As you can see, it's a block of flats.

Every place we go now
is a block of flats or a park.

I mean, I can remember coming here as a kid,

everyone used to sign
their names on the ceiling.

Every fighter that ever went in there,
black felt-tip, white walls, sign their name.

I mean, when they used to train here,

I mean, it wasn't like the trainer
would take you on the pads,

I mean, he would just sit there on his desk,

smoke his roll-up going,
"Yeah, do this, do that."

You know, there would be smoking roll-ups,

training in roll necks and they're bloody
doing like eight, nine rounds of sparring.

I was training in the gym
and your dad walked in and, you know,

and he asked for Freddie Hill, I said,

"He's not about,
but he shouldn't be long," you know.

So he said, "All right," and I remember
there was a speedball hanging up

and that had been hanging up for years,
this ball.

And he hit this speedball with a left hook...

It took off at about 50 mile an hour
on the other side of the ring.

And I thought to myself,
"We've got trouble here."

Freddie Hill was an old
throwback trainer as well,

he was again just like
out of a Rocky film, you know.

Uh, which suited your dad,
it suited him down to the ground

because the modern trainers today

wouldn't have been able
to handle your dad, really,

because your dad
was a larger-than-life character,

he wanted it his way and that was it.

With Freddie Hill, he had the personality
to be able to deal with that.

Len, fight fucking fast, will you? Come on.

Go on, throw some punches.

And your dad had a lot
of respect for Freddie Hill.

Nice. All right, John.

What Lenny would do is Lenny would
just walk through punches, take punches,

cos he knew they couldn't hurt him anyway,

but what Freddie wanted to do,
he wanted to try and teach him

how to slip punches
because when you slip a punch

you can counter and when you can counter,
you can do damage without actually taking any.

So then you used to be a warm up
for him, didn't you?

What Freddie asked me to do,
"You go in with Lenny

"and what I want you to do,
I just want you to just fire

"loads and loads of jabs at Lenny,
quick-fire jabs,"

bang, bang, bang,
and all Lenny had to do was,

all he had to do was learn
how to slip, like that.

Being a lightweight,
if you can slip in with John,

you're going to slip any heavyweight,
you're going to see it coming from a mile off.

So every time I'd jab, he slipped,

and as he slipped, you could come in
with a left hook or a right counter.

In the beginning, I was catching him,
I've got to be honest with you.

I was catching him on the top
of his head guard.

After two or three days,
I wasn't catching him no more.

And he was very hard to hit in the end.

I know that he had run over Victoria Park

so he was getting fitter now.

They was training serious.

He was getting fitter,
he was getting even stronger.

He had a, he had like a fast track
to becoming a pro boxer.

It's just a toughie,
you know, but as a fighter,

I'd book him as nothing,

I'll beat him easy this time.

You'll see it.
It'll be a different fight entirely.

It's a fight between two men
who are going to fight.

Both are strong men, both are fit men.

No weaknesses whatever with these two men,

and this would be a definite fight
the public want to see,

it's by public acclaim, and the people know
that they're not being brought in from abroad,

they know that both men are strong,
they're both Londoners,

and people who want to see the fight
of the two sportsmen together

and as far as we're concerned
they're going to see a fight.

You've got £300 on it.

Three. I lost five last time, that was it,

but I got some friends of mine
are putting a lot of money on.

Apparently, McLean
is the favourite, you know,

so then everyone, every man to his own
what's it called, but...

Roy'll do him.

So by the time the third fight comes round...

Your dad was up for it.

He wanted to make sure,
he wanted to put it to rest.

You know you have got to survive
in the East End.

Be the best fighter, be the Guv'nor.

I'll kill that Roy Shaw.

And I always remember before the fight,
in the dressing room,

just as he was going to go out.

That's why they call me Daddy Cool,
look at me.

Hour before a fight, cool as a cucumber.

That's why I've got to win
and that's when he will come second.

And I'm actually sitting next to him,

cool as a cucumber.

I was literally sitting
next to him on the sofa,

that is why they used to call him
Daddy Cool, weren't it?

Well, Roy Shaw he's pacing
up and down, isn't he?

Get that on tape, McLean's a poof.

And they filled the Rainbow Theatre
up, 13,000 or something,

there was a lot of people at the Rainbow,
it was packed.

Roy thought he was going to face

the same Lenny McLean as he did
the first and the second fight,

the Lenny McLean that never trained.

That was probably the best shape
he's ever been in.

He was so cool because he knew,
look, I'm fit, I'm strong,

I'm not going to get out of breath this time,
and he's bang in trouble,

and as soon as I hit him on the chin
he won't be three rows back, he'll be six.

Ladies and gentleman,
the Mean Machine himself,

Roy "Pretty Boy" Shaw.

In the red corner, Lenny "Boy" McLean.

He was more than capable of doing
six or seven rounds on that night.

He was lean, he was strong, he was fit.

I mean, these were men.
This was the old dying breed of warrior

that no longer exists, you know.

Two reputations met in the ring.

From just throwing caution,

to just going in like a street fighter would,
now all of a sudden, Lenny,

he's got his head down,
he's got his hands up.

You know, now all of a sudden,
he's looking, he's looking the part now,

he's looking like a fighter,
he knows how to throw shots.

He wasn't walking through punches
to land his own, he was slipping them,

and also, when he was slipping punches,

the opponent that was throwing the punches
that were missing,

they was running out of steam because
there is nothing that drains your energy more

than actually when you're throwing punches
and missing your target,

so it was all working for Lenny.

And he did have that, that, just that rage.

Technically, once he learnt how to box,

he utilised that ferociousness
and he contained it.

You see traits of a very, very skilful boxer.

He always looked at his opponent
like it has his stepfather.

So he could channel all his aggression
and all his hate

and do whatever he had to do to defeat it.

Who's the Guv'nor?

I'm the Guv'nor!

Who's the Guv'nor?

After he won the final Roy Shaw fight,
he was forever known as the Guv'nor.

The Guv'nor would probably mean,
you know, you are the toughest man

where you come from.

How do you get on with your kids,
what do you tell them?

- My kids.
- What do you tell them you do?

Well, they know what I do,
but it's a good education

because they know
I would never allow them to do it,

because I've had to do it, but they won't
have to do it, I shall make sure of that.

Do you ever give them a slap and...

- Never. I never...
- Really?

Anyone who hits...

Listen to me,
anybody who hits kids are bullies

because they can't hit anyone else,
so they hit kids.

My two kids, 15 and 16,
I have never ever hit them, I love them,

they are my babies, how could I knock
them about, they are a part of me.

Anyone who hits kids, they're bullies,

but my babies are beautiful, I love them.

My boy could never do what I do,
I wouldn't let him.

There was a lot of money tied up in
that last fight and life changed dramatically.

I was born in 1971.

My earliest memories of my father
would probably be Christmas time.

We had a very loving family.

My mum was very cuddly and lovely

and my dad wasn't sort of
that cuddly of a dad.

I mean, he would cuddle you and kiss you,
but his way to show affection and love,

he would actually go out and buy you stuff,
like Christmas would be very special.

So when me, my sister and my mum
would wake up and it would be like

Santa's Grotto, there would be so many
presents and toys

and my mum and everyone would be happy.

You know, we would go on holidays to Spain.

Then he got a nice house in Streatham Road,

things started developing for him.

And in the 1980s,

he began to fight professionally
as an unlicensed boxer.

Is there a tender side to my dad Lenny?

Yeah, there was a very tender side to him.
I mean, he was constantly cuddling the dog.

I mean, I can remember coming home from work

and I could hear terrible howls and screams
and then I would go upstairs

and I would be listening outside the door

and I could hear him go,
"Don't bite Daddy, don't bite Daddy."

The unlicensed fighting, I mean, look,
you've got to understand something.

This man come from nothing, they had nothing,

you know, they had to fight to survive,
like he says,

you have to fight in the East End
to get anywhere,

and that is the only thing he knew
and you have to take your hat off to him.

You know, he wasn't blessed
with a massive education,

he wasn't blessed
with the best looking in the world,

but he could fight
and he used it to his best abilities.

The most important thing
in Lenny's life was his family.

You were big players in his life,
you were his number one.

I left home at 21.

I bought my first property
which is in Wanstead

and then I remember I was
moving out in the morning,

just getting my clothes together
and he called me in the bedroom

and said, "Me and mummy
don't want you to go."

He went, "Why don't you do this,
rent your flat out,"

he said, "Live here rent-free,"
he says, "You will have income coming in,"

and he said, "You got your work
down in Smithfield,"

he said "You're going to be laughing."

He said, "Stay here rent-free,
you haven't got to pay nothing."

I went, I thought about it for a minute
and I thought, no, no, I got, I went, no,

"I am young, I want to go out
to parties and that"

and I moved out and they, I think they was,

I could see a tear was in their eyes,
especially me dad.

He was devastated I was leaving home.

In the '90s, his reputation
had sort of carried through and,

but he was one of the most successful
bouncers of all time

on all the doors in the West End.

Lenny McLean, who boasts
he's the king of London's bouncers.

In a club,

you have a lot of aggravation.

"Get Lenny." "Lenny will straighten it up."
"Lenny will put it on the map."

Lenny admits
he has a criminal record for GBH.

Treat kindness with kindness,

but your Jack the Lads today,

they want violence,
you treat violence with violence.

In one week, we had a lot of trouble
with some people, a lot of Jack the Lads,

I broke five jaws.
They didn't stop screaming to the police.

- Hello, mate.
- How's it going, Mick?

- Long time, no see.
- Great to see you, how are ya?

What are you doing out here?

We are coming in to come and speak to you.

How did you meet him

and did you know about his reputation
before you had met him?

I'd heard of Lenny back in the day.

Went to the Camden Palace
to look for some work, got the job down there

and basically, Lenny took me under his wing.

It was a good place,
we had a good team down there,

and obviously, the Guv'nor was the leader.

A lot of the times,
we was in the restaurant upstairs eating.

In fact, I brought a little picture
in to show you, this was back in the day.

We used to be in the restaurant,
the buzzer used to go,

everyone used to wait for us
to come downstairs.

- What, they didn't go and deal with it?
- No, they weren't allowed to,

we had to wait for Lenny
to come and take the front line,

and then it was Lenny at the front
and it was about 12 or 13 behind him,

all gloved up, we always had little
pads made up, you know.

A lot of people say they were knuckle-dusters,
they wasn't, they were just pads.

Weren't knuckle-dusters,
we, they were like boxing pads,

made up, so you didn't cut your hands
or damage our hands.

When my dad was doing the Camden Palace

I can remember going
into the kitchen sometimes,

and he would have a collection
of knives that he's took off people.

I mean, you had to act first,
otherwise that would end up in you.

You had to, it was life or death.

And Lenny would, every party that I would do,
he would come down, you know...

- Just to show his face.
- To show his face.

Lemonade, he would ask me to shoot up
and get some lemonades

and I'd be the only person
who had to fly up there and get them.

What, so if someone said,
"Oh, I'd get you a lemonade, Len," he'd go...

No, he send, send Short Stuff,
so I'd fly up, get the lemonades,

he followed a few people and then say,
"Any problems, give me a call at home,"

and that was it,
and then he was gone, you know.

What was he actually like
when it did kick off?

He kicked off properly. You know,
a lot of times it was one punch, it was down,

and he used to say,
"Good night, God bless," all the time.

So wherever we worked,
we worked on a lot of places,

from the Camden Palace,
we went to the Hippodrome after.

Probably my dad's most famous
time of working in the West End

would be the London Hippodrome,
where my dad got nicked for the murder.

We're now coming into Leicester Square.

He had all the Leicester Square all sewn up,
he had the ticket touts,

cab drivers, the food sellers,

anything you could think of,
it was his little domain.

It was probably a really good time in my life

because we used to come up here

and we used to be like,
you know, like celebrities.

Just every door opened
to wherever you wanted to go

because he was held in such high esteem.

You know, it was mutual
respect amongst doorman

that you could use your reputation
to get in anywhere you wanted to get.

I was with, obviously,
working with Charlie Kray.

We had an office in the Roman Road,

we had it many a times
and Charlie said to me one day,

"I've got to go up and see Alex, Alex Stein."

Some, doing some boxing promoting

and when we were getting up there,

there was a monster of a man stood outside
and Charlie went, "That's Lenny,

"I've got to have a word with him."

I went, "I hope it's a nice word," and they
got up there fired him into a little bit

and was having a little bit it was going
here and there and I thought,

"Charlie, you've got to ease up here, pal,

"because we could end up
getting battered here."

I can see this, and then it all stopped,

big hug, and I went, "Thank God for that,"

and Charlie went, "Here, John, meet Len.
Len, this is my pal John."

You know, this is quite hard to actually
walk into the Hippodrome,

because the last time I come here
he was on the door,

you know, we're coming back
for the first time.

He was here on the doors from '90 to '93.

Look how it's changed, unbelievable.

He would stand inside the door,

but mainly he had a little office
on the left hand side

with a camera on the door so he could
see everything that was going on,

him and his cousin John-John would sit
in there just eating Chinese every night

taking the piss out of everyone
walking in there.

A bad time for him and us

was obviously when he got nicked
for the murder at the Hippodrome.

He was actually on his way home
and then they rung him and said,

"Look, Len, we've got some geezer here."

The guy was actually starkers naked.

He's got his old bill out,
he's pissing on the dance floor,

doorman grabbed hold of him,
took him to a room.

And my dad obviously give him
a backhander or a clump or whatever,

dressed him up after and got him out.

I'm in bed, I got up quite early
Sunday morning, put the radio on

and I hear this thing about the Hippodrome,
someone died or got murdered,

and I thought, well, what?

So I got straight on to the phone to Lenny.

And my dad went, "You're joking."

So he goes, "Oh, fucking, are you serious?"

I went, "I've heard it,
that is why I am ringing you up."

So he goes, "Let me ring you back."
He spoke to Val.

He said, "That fella I give
a backhander to last night, he's died.

"They're going to come and nick me for this."

She went, "No, don't be silly,
they're not going to come and nick you."

Probably a day or two went past

and all of a sudden the doorbell went

and there must have been
about fifty old bill outside.

And they said,
"We need to take you down the station

"and question about Mr Humphries."

And I think that they had arrested
Robert Lopez as well.

They said, "Look, we're going to arrest
you and Robert,"

and my dad said, "Look,"
he said, "Robert never hit the kid."

He said, "I hit him."

He said, "But I had to keep him under
control because he was a nutter."

And then they charged him with the murder.

I mean, I can remember pulling up at my house

and my mum was in fits of laughter.

It was a nervous reaction, she couldn't,
it was like uncontrollable fits of laughter.

You know, he was on remand
for 12 months on a murder charge.

Apparently, he was running loose
from Manchester out of a nuthouse,

he ended up in London somehow,

from London he came to the Hippodrome,
got thrown out,

apparently he was pissing on the cars
outside the Hippodrome,

heading up towards the casino.

The next thing there was police, four or five
police threw him headfirst into a van

and there was a nurse who witnessed it
that was walking by that night

which saved Lenny's arse.

So it was the police that caused the damage
and killed him, not Lenny.

That's why they overruled in court
and he got what he got, you know,

an ABH instead of them
trying to pin a murder charge on him.

And then after the trial it says here,
"The police beat up tragic streaker."

So a night club streaker was beaten to death
by the police, not the two bouncers

accused of the, accused of the murder
at the Old Bailey.

Yeah, it was a witch hunt.

Because of the name Lenny McLean,

I think the police had it in for him
and they tried to pin it on him.

I mean, at the moment
when charges got dropped,

I mean, he literally stood up

and stared at the judge and he sung
Always Look on the Bright Side of Life

by Monty Python, and that is just the
sort of sense of humour my dad had.

I have to whistle it cos I don't know
the rest of the words.

I think it sort of wore him down in the end,
I think he just had enough, you know.

I could see a man who, who really
wanted to step into something else.

That's why he tried to do something
a little bit more sort of creative.

In the 1990s, he'd written his own book.

His book, he knew that was a winner,

he knew that was gold dust,

and yet people couldn't see it.

And I was around him for years
when he was punting that book around,

until one day
somebody looked at it and thought,

"This is special, this is going to do
very, very well, this book,"

and they took it on
because they could see that it was gold dust,

they could see the potential in this book.

Why no one has taken this on is beyond me.

And it was the best seller.

And it was the best seller for years.
It sold millions of copies.

And he became sort of famous.

You always see his face,
knuckles up at the chin everywhere you go.

And he became a celebrity.

He got TV roles.

There is 200 notes there for you
and one or two of your men about,

just to discourage them.

And also his talk shows.

Lenny McLean.

Lenny McLean, champion street
fighter of Great Britain.

I'm planning to have a scrap.

He loved the attention. I mean,
he loved his family, but he liked,

you know, people taking notice of him.

Ladies and gentlemen, Lenny McLean.

As he was coming to later on in his life,

I think he knew he could do a lot more,
like the acting was just right up his street.

Ray, you are a fucking gentleman.

He said, "You know, all these years,"

he said, "I've been punching people
and knocking people out,"

he said, "And it just suddenly dawned on me,"

he said, "You punch someone on the jaw in
a nightclub, they want to give you five years,"

"you do it in front of a TV camera,
they want to give you five grand, yeah."

He's a fucking thief.

Harry has a colleague, a monster
of a man, Barry the Baptist.

The Baptist got his name
by drowning people for Hatchet.

I don't give a fucking...

I loved your dad, he was fabulous.

I remember the first time I saw your dad,

I saw him on the door of the Hippodrome

when I was about 15 or something,

and as soon as I saw him, I thought,

"If I ever end up making a movie,
he's going to be in the movie."

And then, I don't know what it was,
10 years later or whatever it was,

he was in there,

and I called him up, I can't remember
how I got hold of the number,

and your dad just could not
have been more helpful,

and that's before we had any dough,

or before we was sort of
organised or anything.

And as your dad come in,
I loved him, he was great.

And are you still cracking on in the films?

Am I still cracking on?

We made a fucking deal
for everything inside the cabinet.

Inside out-fuckin'-side, I don't give a shit.

You get those guns, because if you don't...

Oh, yeah, Bazza, or what?

We had these trailers which were,
it's called a three-way.

It's a caravan with no toilets,
but three changing rooms,

which you'd put, you know, someone who
was in for a day you might put them in,

but what they did was,
they put two of us in each,

me with your dad.

So it was Lenny's first day
and I got to my little door and it went

"Jason Flemyng, Lenny McLean,"
and I went, "Oh..."

And I opened the door and I looked in,

it was tiny and I went,
"There is no way on God's green Earth

"Lenny McLean is going to get
in this trailer with me in it."

So I got, I got changed quickly and left
my bag in the corner and then Lenny arrived

and he went, "You all right, boy,"
and I went, "Yeah, yeah, no, I'm fine, Lenny.

"I'm going to change,
I'm going to leave you to it,

"I'm going to change out here,"
and he went, "What, outside?" and I went,

"Yeah, no, I'm going to change,
I'm just going to change in the street,"

and he went, "Good boy,"
and he closed the door.

And I was getting changed in the street
and I'd forgotten something,

I knocked on the door like this,
and I'd left my stuff in there,

and there was a CD that I,
that's how long ago it was,

there was a CD which I was playing,
which was on the side, it was an Elvis CD,

and your dad was very into Elvis
and it was a Japanese import and he went,

and it was the first day I met him
and I went, he went,

"Where did you get this, boy?"

And I went, "Oh, it's a Japanese import,
they're hard to get."

And he goes, "Could you get me one of these?"

And I said, "You can have that one, Lenny,"

and he went, "Good boy, good boy,"
and he stuck it in his bag

and I was like, "Oh, God,
this is a nightmare being in with Lenny,"

cos there's nothing I can say.

You know, I saw him do the scene
with the Scousers

and he was going, he goes,
"Where's those guns?"

Where's the others?

"Did you get those guns, the old ones?"

Stop fuckin' around.
The others, the old ones.

We had to sell them, we needed the money.

I'm not fucking interested.

If you don't want to be counting the fingers
you haven't got,

I suggest you get those guns quick!

Yeah, I knew your father
from way back in the day now.

I mean, I've come out of Camden,
so at the age of about 15, 16

we used to go to Camden Palace,
which used to be called Koko,

so we used to turn up there
and my friends used to be all nervous

cos your dad would be
just like a big fella on the door

and I used to say,
"Don't worry about it, I'll deal with this.

"Go on," I said, "Push me up," and I was
like, "All right, Len, how you doing?"

And he goes, "Go on, fuck off, get in."

He just used to, and we were in,
VIPs to put us in,

I don't know why, he just liked us
because we had a bit of banter,

- I had a bit of banter.
- Yeah, that's what he probably liked.

Hello?

Get us ice cream while you are at it.

You know, I mean, Lenny was
a well-respected actor at that point.

He had timing and he understood the craft,
he understood the marks,

he understood about the preparation.

Without a doubt, Lock, Stock would've been
a great showcase as it was for all of us.

What the fuck do we know
about antiques, mate?

If it looks old, it's worth money, simple.

So stop fucking moaning and rob the place.

This was the original billboard
that was going to be in the film,

obviously, for Lock, Stock, and they had
them all on the billboards

all round sort of London and Shoreditch.

That would have pleased your dad no end,
Lenny would say, "That's it,

"I've made it now, that's what I've always...

"That's what I've been looking for
all these years."

The tragedy was, you know, as you know,
is that Lenny wasn't completely well

at that point and one of the great
pleasures and successes of Lock, Stock

was the fact that it came out and was
number one at the box office

at the same time as The Guv'nor
was number one as a book.

And he was alive for that, you know,
so he was there and saw, you know,

his film and his book

be at number one simultaneously,
which is amazing.

But wouldn't it have been nice if your dad
was walking down the street one day

and a kid come over to him and said,

"You're Lenny McLean, ain't you?"
instead of saying,

"You're Lenny McLean,
you're this, you're that, the other,

"say you're Lenny McLean,
ain't you, the film star?"

Wouldn't that have been great?

And wouldn't he have appreciated that?

He would have loved that,
and that says it all, doesn't it?

Yeah, no, I got him, he is wearing a roll neck
and he's drinking in Hoxton somewhere.

That was my mum's wedding.

- Oh, was it? It wasn't.
- It was, yeah.

Oh, was it?

Oh, fuck me, yeah, I wonder
if my dad has got any pictures of that?

Has your mum got any pictures of it?

There's one I put indoors, but you can
just see a little bit of Lenny in it...

He's doing that...

Yeah, we're trying to...
The thing is, my family are all a bit nuts,

it's hard to get them on camera.

I spoke to my dad's sister Boo
and she just said to me that

they was all very close growing up,
extremely close,

she said, but there was definitely
something wrong with him,

she went, forget about the beltings,
she went, there was something,

there was something deeper, something...

She just said he was a little bit
bullyish to his family.

Yeah, it was quite difficult
listening to it, to be fair.

I think I'm coming to a different conclusion,

even though he had a brutal upbringing,
I think there was an underlying

what's the word I am looking for,

it's something else going on,
there was something,

what can we say,

was there some mental issues, was there, or,

there's something definitely,

there was definitely something wrong with
his nut, as we would say in the East End,

and to be fair, it's hard
for me to talk about it, it's quite hard.

He was a tortured soul.

I mean, my mum always said that,
you know, he's...

His nut is not right, it never has been
since she's known him,

you know, his nut was always going,
that's what he would always say,

"Oh, me nut's going, me nut's going,"

you know, that's one of his common things
he would always say.

I wouldn't say, look, it weren't all
roses and tinkerbells in our house,

sometimes it would affect us.

But to be fair, I was never hit as a kid,

you know, he didn't agree
with hitting children, you know,

but obviously he shouted
and the shout would obviously do.

I've not seen him shout
at fully grown men and cry, doormen,

and make them cry, just by shouting.

But that's when, you know,
I look back now and think

why was he angry at that time,
why was he so aggressive,

and now I'm thinking because he didn't
want to show the weakness of how his nut

was coping with as we know it now as OCD.

You know, it's hard for me to talk about it

because would he have
wanted me to talk about it?

But we need to know the truth
about what lay behind the violence.

Other people noticed that he'd have OCD,
especially probably his family.

Like he'd come home from school,
count his steps, say his steps was 150 steps.

The next day, he'd go and count the steps
again to come home,

and it'd be 148 steps, so he'd have to go
all the way back to school

and count the 150 steps,
so it was 150 steps and do that again.

And that, he had to do that
until that was right

and then that's
the sort of things he would do.

He'd say, "Oh, I forgot,
there's a matchstick somewhere,"

and he'd have to go back to a matchstick
in the street somewhere,

literally get on a bus, go back, pick it up,
and then go "Nine-ten, nine-ten," and then go.

He found a wage packet when he was
younger and it had nine-ten in it,

and he would always repeat that
and I used to think to myself,

"Why does he keep saying nine-ten?"

So throughout his life, "Nine ten, nine-ten."

And that was lucky,
that's why he would say it.

You know, he'd repeat himself,
he talked in the mirror a lot.

I mean, he did like the mirror to be fair.

I mean, I think if he could have one
surgically put on the front of his face,

he would definitely have had one
because he was constantly looking in it.

I think he see someone in the street that
he used to work with when he left school,

when he was a window cleaner,

and he hadn't seen this guy for 25 years,
so he's come home to my mum and said,

"Val, I've just seen so and so,
what's his name?"

And my mum said, "I didn't know you
really then, Len, I don't know his name."

"I've got to," and he would go on
and he went on for weeks,

"I need to know this name."

Morning, noon, and night,
"What's this geezer's name?"

So that would play on his mind for two
to three weeks to find out who this man was,

she would've found out the geezer's name,
told my dad and he went,

"Oh, that's it," and he wouldn't
mention it ever again.

As soon as he found out his mind was settled,
he would go on to something else.

I'm not saying people in the East End
are ignorant, but there was a, you know,

there wasn't an understanding about OCD
or even dyslexia, autism,

so someone who done that, they just
got classed as being a nutter or mad,

so it was a stigma,
but no one would tell Lenny to his face.

It must've been very, very difficult for him
to have a problem like that,

it was a vulnerability.

He must've had a protection up.

When he felt like that,
because he was such a man's man,

I think it would develop into anger.

He dealt with it the best way he could,
he never sat with a therapist.

My generation, we go
and have therapy twice a week,

but, you know, they were real men.

They didn't go to doctors
if their leg was hanging off, you know,

they was, they get shot

and went down the hospital
and then come out and had a big cream cake.

That's, that's a different world,
we're a different breed nowadays.

We're very narcissistic,
we're into ourselves, we're into our being.

iPhone generation now, we are.

You know, I just think
it's all the emotion of filming,

it's all got a bit on top of me, really,
to be fair, it's been quite hard.

It was nothing, sorry, mate.

Now, gentleman. How old are you?

This is, this is a fucking
12-year-old schoolboy.

No you're right, it's all right.

We split, nothing, we spilt teas on each
other, it was a tease, but it was wrong.

Just had an argument, that was all, nothing.

- Honestly, Officer, nothing was done.
- Are you working?

Yeah, we're filming, yeah.

What the fuck was that all about?

Have a fight in the middle of a restaurant,
just done four months.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Seriously.

He was being, he was being leery to me, Jo.

The police are outside, someone's filmed you.

If somebody had come,
you're back inside for six months.

You've got to control
your fucking temper, Jamie.

You know, it does my nut, I've
got a, I need something to take it away.

Cos I'm, now I've gone in there,
but I didn't say nothing to him straight away.

He said summat and I sat down and I said,
"Have you got a problem or summat?"

He's got to say something,
he's a little bit older than me

so now he has to say something,
I said, "Fuck it," I went to grab him.

Now I've gone in there
and caused absolute murder

with cups and saucers have gone
everywhere, so, but, oh, I don't know.

I just... I like to be
tucked up indoors, I know.

- It's emotional, talking about it.
- I know.

It's even emotional
me coming down Hoxton again.

Yeah, I don't come here,
you know what I'm saying?

I don't come here.

When I see all the hipsters
and the change of it all,

and I got my old flatmate
who's talking about Lenny,

it's difficult, it's difficult.

At some point,
it's a good thing being his son

and then that point,

it's a bad thing to be his son
because obviously people think

you're the same, you know,
you're the same as him.

I am similar to him in a lot of ways
with our sense of humour, funny, but...

But we have got a certain

streak in us, like our tempers
can go very quickly.

I don't really go out
that much anywhere any more,

cos I just don't want to get
in any more altercations,

like I'm one punch away from going to prison

for however long it would be, I don't know.

I had been skiing in Italy
and I spoke to my mum

and she said, "Look, you need to come home,
Daddy's not very well,"

and I can remember walking in,
but he hadn't sort of shrunk,

but he had lost a lot of weight
off the shoulders

so I said, "Oh," I said,
"Dad, you don't look well,"

and he said, "No, I think I'm all right,
I think I got a bit of pleurisy,"

so I said, "No, no,
we need to go to the hospital."

Put my dad in the car, we drove him up
to the hospital in Sidcup

and they bought him in and they said,
"Oh, he don't look very well,"

and they done a few tests on him

and they said, you know,
"We've done a scan on you,"

and they said it's cancer
and it's spread to your brain

and we're going to give you
eight months to live.

You always thought that he was invincible.

This sort of thing
can't happen to Lenny, you know.

Actually, when the cancer
was like in its advanced stages,

I remember like my mum would,
she would go to the shops

and go, "Len, Len," and he wouldn't answer,

so she'd go up the stairs
and he'd be sitting in bed

with his eyes open stiff and we'd thought
he had died and she would go, "Len, Len!"

"Oh, no, I'm only joking.
Did you get my cream cakes?

"Did you get my Magnum lollies?"

And she'd go, "Don't do that!"
And she'd be hitting him...

He'd be laughing and like,
you know, he's dying,

but he was still liked practical jokes.

And he always smoked his roll-ups, even,
there was no point in giving up

because the damage was already done

and I can remember
there was no toilet upstairs in the house,

and I can remember like 4:00 in the morning,

him tumbling down the stairs where he is
trying to get up and go to the toilet

and I've turned the light on
and go, "Dad, are you all right?"

And he went, "Don't worry
I haven't dropped the roll-up."

And like he still had the roll-up in his hand

and he was literally in a pile
at the bottom of the stairs.

The MacMillan nurse, they said,

"What we are going to do
is we will set a toilet upstairs for him,"

and my mum went, "The day
Lenny can't get up and use the toilet,

"that is the day that he will die."

And she was 100% right.

His funeral was very impressive.

We probably had probably
15, 20 cars of family

and then there was
about 60 cars following, I would say.

The streets were lined with people.

Thousands and thousands
and thousands of people

to see Lenny off, you know.
That's incredible.

And like it was just like
a massive procession.

There was sort of all news cameras
doing interviews with people

and everyone reckoned they knew him or he
lived in the Roman or he lived in Hoxton.

It was pretty powerful.

Is that a bad guy?

Do people do that for someone who
goes around hurting people for no reason?

No, they don't do that, no,
cos they knew Lenny for what he was.

He was a nice man and make,
give a lot of people

a lot of fun along the way,
believe me, you know.

A funny story always sticks in my head.

I remember they were down Clacton

and someone come up to me and said,
"Oh, I see your mum and dad in Clacton."

He had his hand on the top of her head.

He said, "Why does he do that?"
I said, "I'll tell you why he does that."

I said, "He does it in case he thinks

"anything's going to fall on her head
and hurt her."

I said, "It's just a little funny thing
that he does."

Nothing's going to fall on his head,

but it's just a little funny joke
they have between theirselves.

I said, "And that is why he does it."

Erm, making the documentary,

at first I thought it was a really good idea
making the film.

I wanted to interview people
that knew him or had stories,

negative or positive, it didn't matter to me.

But was I going around looking
for too much negativity?

"Beloved husband, father, Leonard John
Frederick McLean, The Guv'nor.

"He died in 28.07.1998."

And this is a sad one, "In loving memory
of Valerie Georgina McLean,

"best mum in the world. Will always
miss you forever, Jamie and Kelly."

She died 18.12.2007, 56. All very young.

You know, you look at it there,
age 46, me nan, 49, my dad.

It's, oh, it's no age, is it?
You ain't even had a life.

Ain't had a life then.

This is where you end up, it's just...

It's just, you know, this is the, you know,
your last journey, you end up here.

It's heart-breaking, innit?

And this is my Christmas now, I mean,

I said earlier on that all my good memories
at Christmas and laughing,

you know.

Christmas is quite a good time
for people now.

My Christmas mornings,
I have to come here, reluctantly,

I don't want to come here
to see my mum and dad,

I want to go and see them
at their house, happy and laughing.

All he wanted to do was better himself,
provide for his family and which he did.

He was a good father and a good husband.

We're celebrating it,
that's what we are doing.

We're not doing a film,
we're not doing a documentary,

we're celebrating a man
that come from nothing to become something.

Well, fuck me, what's that? What is that?

That is what my dad would do.

I am my father's son.

So... Um...

Sorry, force of habit.

I punch someone in the face,
I'm going to prison.

No matter what I do, it's going
to be highlighted 100 times worse

than what it is by the police.

They had a dossier like that
about my old man when I went to court.

I mean, what has that got to...

What has my old man got to do with me
having a fight for 10 seconds somewhere?

So are you paying for the sins of your
father? I think we are, I think we do.

I think I did.

Yeah, I can't say I wouldn't be
in that position again

because if someone did push me,

I think I would probably, yeah, I would snap.

Yeah, I would. I wouldn't be able to
keep my hands to myself definitely.

I wouldn't be able to let someone
pick on me and my family,

I don't think I could do it.

I mean, I'm 45 now,
who wants to end up in prison?

It's no place for no one.

You sound a bit of a bully.

No, you're joking. Gentleman.

Not a bully. A gentleman.

Do you know the family,
the McLeans and the Walls?

- I have heard the name of it, yeah.
- Yeah.

- Have you ever heard of the McLeans?
- Oh, yes, yes.

- Oh, I know Lenny.
- Yeah?

- Do you remember Lenny McLean?
- Yeah.

- I'm his boy, Jamie. Yeah.
- Are you?

- Lenny McLean? Do you know Lenny?
- Knock him out.

We're doing a documentary about him.

- Are you? Of course I knew him.
- Did you know Lenny?

- Did you know him?
- Knew Lenny well, yeah.

Did you, what did you go to school
round here as well?

Well, no, I used to be a chauffeur
and I used to drive, meet him up there

- when he used to work at Camden.
- Yeah.

He asked to have the carwash and Lenny
used to bring his black Ford Granada...

- Yeah.
- And he used to

come down with Johnny, Fat Nose Johnny.

What was my old man like when he was younger?

He was a bit of a nuisance round here when
he was younger, do you know what I mean?

- Murder, murder. Yeah, I liked him, yeah.
- Yeah.

He never done me any harm,
he was polite to me.

Didn't get too involved with him,

- you know what I mean?
- Yeah.

Everybody labelled as a bully,
but he weren't.

They talked about the bad things he done
on one hand,

but the good things he done
they won't tell you.

He was a blinding geezer,

- bailed me out on a number of occasions.
- Yeah.

I always say they're
one of the boys from Hoxton.

Yeah, that's it.

And we always said we had our road,

- but they never robbed their own.
- No.

I'm standing on the door like me old man,

but I think I'm a little bit more
immaculately dressed.

All right, Sam?
Got a bee in my bonnet about him.

No, he didn't even talk like that.
He went, "Hello, dinky."

That's how he spoke really,
that was all for the camera.

He would go, "Hello, all right, kids?"

That's how he spoke, that's how we all speak.

All the McLeans speak like that,
"Hello, right. Oh, doo-dee-dee."